00:06:07 youtube is down :\ 00:06:24 your right 00:06:35 my left 00:08:12 no 00:08:16 my left 00:08:18 your right 00:08:23 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:26 o 00:11:22 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:11:40 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:14:35 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-194-133.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:15:42 hmmm 00:16:56 would be nice to know what asdf/module/file was responsible for the creation of a given package 00:17:12 iff the package was created in that manner 00:17:53 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 00:17:56 via :documentation ? 00:17:58 or M-. 00:22:57 you're right, i forgot package definitions took docstrings 00:30:06 -!- lnostdal [~6dbd4e2b@gateway/web/freenode/x-fbcddorfgwvlsqcl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:32:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:32:44 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:33:03 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:36:21 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 00:37:10 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:39:14 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:56 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:05 clhs extended-char 00:47:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_extend.htm 00:50:00 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-59-250.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:50:50 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B29A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:51:26 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:49 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-49-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:56:02 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 01:01:39 QinGW [~daf70592@gateway/web/freenode/x-ntjxqnlrhnqnernr] has joined #lisp 01:03:40 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 01:03:53 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:58 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 01:04:05 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 01:09:11 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 01:11:51 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-106-173.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:12:17 tritchey_ [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:bbff:fe00:80c6] has joined #lisp 01:13:39 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:13:39 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 01:14:10 fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.203] has joined #lisp 01:15:52 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d51A4A9AF.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:13 -!- _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:26:43 (type-of (code-char 1114111)) => BASE-CHAR 01:26:55 does CLISP have any extended chars? 01:27:17 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:27:24 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:27:30 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442741.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:27:33 ok SBCL makes that EXTENDED-CHAR 01:29:46 i my goal is to base-char limit to 65535 then extended-chars to 1114112 .. thats sane? 01:33:18 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 01:33:33 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:33:58 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@adsl-76-204-79-74.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 01:37:08 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:37:43 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1279375297.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: sigh] 01:38:31 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:41:45 <_3b`> dmiles_afk: might want to watch out for the surrogate pair code points 01:42:09 i am failing some tests that i bet are related to that 01:42:51 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 01:43:35 *dmiles_afk* having to google and read more about "surrogate pair code point" 01:43:58 <_3b`> see also utf-16 vs ucs2 01:44:13 the surrogate code points U+D800–U+DFFF (which are not characters) are uniquely mapped by UTF-16 regardless of the code point's current or future character assignment or use. 01:45:58 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d557540-CM00222d55753d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 01:46:03 excluding the 2,048 special surrogate code points, are assigned to code units in a one-to-one 01:46:10 those are the ones ? 01:46:23 <_3b`> yeah, i think so 01:47:11 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:39 -!- gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.220.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:54 ok do i understand this in SBCL the type-of 0-127 are base-char unless in standard-char ontology .. everything else is extended? 01:51:11 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:31 in CLISP there are no extended-chars they are all base-char .. except when part of the standard-char ontology 01:55:16 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.176.73] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:56:31 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 01:59:20 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 02:01:41 felideon [~felideon@adsl-223-182-12.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:18 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:39 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:04 all standard-char are base-char 99.9% of the time? 02:06:11 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:06:36 (not a rule.. but a practice) 02:06:38 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:03 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 02:07:30 <_3b`> clhs standard-char 02:07:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_std_ch.htm 02:07:40 <_3b`> ^ looks like it from supertyle list there 02:07:45 <_3b`> *supertype 02:07:56 dmiles: Standard-char is a subtype of base-char, so 100%. 02:09:03 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:33 ok i finnally understand the [standard->base|extended] 02:10:11 now i see this "Any _character_ that is not _simple_ is not a _standard character_. " .. "simple?" 02:10:27 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 02:10:34 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 02:10:51 they meant _base_ and not _simple_ there? 02:10:51 Personally I think that they should just have chucked char out. 02:11:10 Getting rid of characters was the best thing that python, and now javascript did. 02:11:14 <_3b`> no, simple is something else 02:12:35 <_3b`> click the glossary link for details 02:12:59 -!- hicx174_ [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:13:10 and it takes me to simpleness of arrays.. i was thijking 02:13:17 <_3b`> meaning #2 02:13:29 ah.. i see it now 02:13:50 <_3b`> #\A is a standard-char, #\A with sparkles and a pony isn't 02:14:16 *_3b`* suspects no implementations define those particular attributes though 02:14:28 hicx174_ [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 02:14:32 #\Backspace or #\PageFeed? 02:15:43 -!- bakkdoor [~bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:15:54 _3b`: We could fake it with a blink tag and a font where all the characters are made up of ponies. 02:16:26 *fusss* has an infant soap-client library just functioning 02:16:38 nyef: +1 on the "soap is http with funny headers" part 02:17:02 i will thank you for that piece of understated wisdom everyday henceforth 02:17:09 bakkdoor [~bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 02:17:26 fusss: You're welcome. It took me something like two days of reading specs until I found said funny header. 02:17:30 i have gone through 120 pages of WS-BS documents, absorbed the specs, and came to the same conclussion 02:17:48 great minds think alone 02:17:52 s/alone/alike 02:18:00 *dmiles_afk* looking for a type sepecifier for simple-char 02:18:03 Both? 02:18:12 fools never differ ;-) 02:18:31 They're all wrong? 02:19:18 the other thing about soap is the library culture; adherence to the spec is enforced by the library. PHP SOAP feels different than Apache SOAP and feels different than .NET soap 02:20:02 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:20:28 ok simple-string maybe is full of simple-chars .. if it fits to a simple string i guess its a simple char 02:20:33 I wouldn't know about that. As a SOAP client, I see a wire protocol. As a SOAP service, well... You probably don't want to know what I usually end up with there. 02:21:09 (It's horribly closed-source, server-side that's-not-quite-javascript, and a framework and data object model that's plain insane.) 02:21:27 Idiots changed how to publish a web service three times in as many minor versions. 02:21:47 -!- htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:22:20 nyef: at work we don't even have code for the service. it's generated by the IDE. 02:22:23 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22:40 Yeah. Not pretty. 02:22:59 Still, there's a wire protocol, and a meta-spec for the wire protocol... 02:25:18 if i don't get bored with it, i really wanna push this to be the CFFI-like 02:26:04 adeht [~user@bzq-84-110-79-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:08 I have "Pro PHP XML and Web Services" on my desk and we use every type of middle-ware crap found therein 02:28:38 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:29:14 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70d278.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:33:34 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:33:38 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@178.182.49.23.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:33:41 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 02:34:01 mik8y [~user@122.199.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:36:44 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:38:28 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 02:38:40 saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:43 -!- saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 02:45:44 maden_ [~maden@dsl-152-157.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 02:45:54 -!- maden_ [~maden@dsl-152-157.aei.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 02:46:44 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-201.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: co'o] 02:46:52 -!- QinGW [~daf70592@gateway/web/freenode/x-ntjxqnlrhnqnernr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:47:58 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-145-42.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:49:02 gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.250.221] has joined #lisp 02:49:42 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.250.221] has quit [Client Quit] 02:50:08 maden [~maden@dsl-152-157.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 02:55:04 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:06 Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:33 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:52 evening 03:02:50 nicdev [~user@st401-108.subnet-249.amherst.edu] has joined #lisp 03:04:01 -!- mik8y [~user@122.199.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:05:55 saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:50 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-4-114.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:11:22 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:38 -!- Guest86645 [~pragma@blackshell.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:11:38 Guest86645 [~pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 03:11:40 -!- Guest86645 is now known as pragma_ 03:14:08 -!- pragma_ [~pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:18:28 pragma_ [~pragma@blackshell.com] has joined #lisp 03:18:48 -!- pragma_ is now known as Guest31832 03:19:11 -!- Guest31832 [~pragma@blackshell.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:19:11 Guest31832 [~pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 03:19:48 -!- Guest31832 is now known as pragma_ 03:20:16 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:20:48 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:27:17 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:bbff:fe00:80c6] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:31:49 benny` [~benny@i577A85D1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:33:09 -!- benny` is now known as benny 03:37:24 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:29 i wonder how big a deal it is that (char-name (code-char 0)) => "Nul" vs "Null" 03:38:05 #\null still works though from reader 03:39:03 Odd, I'd have expected #\null to -not- work. 03:39:30 looks like clisp and sbcl can exchange each others representations 03:39:36 (Since the proper names of all ASCII control codes are two or three letters long.) 03:40:00 SBCL its #\Nul CLISP its #\Null 03:40:11 File a clisp bug? 03:40:24 its not supposed to? 03:40:52 so you are saying: #\Spa should work? 03:41:11 Space isn't a control code. 03:41:28 Bel vs Bell ? 03:41:29 It's 040, the control codes are 000 - 037. 03:41:32 Yup. 03:41:54 LF and CR, as well. 03:44:41 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:44:59 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 03:46:57 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:47:46 Code 9 is, if I recall correctly, HT. 03:48:04 (char-name (code-char 0)) => "Tab" 03:48:07 oops 03:48:08 And 4 is EOF. 03:48:08 dmiles: http://asciitable.com/ 03:48:09 9 03:48:36 Ah, EOT, not EOF. 03:49:18 Transmition vs text .. now i know 03:49:43 This is... Not matching up with my memory. 03:49:57 We might need an authoritative source. 03:50:29 (loop for i from 0 to 128 do (format t ", ~S" (char-name (code-char i)))) 03:50:45 has been my source.. its differnt lisp-to-lisp ;) 03:58:08 Meh. For portability between lisps that disagree on the control codes, (format t "#.(code-char)" i). 03:58:24 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:32 dmiles pasted "what i am doing to populate my table" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97172 03:59:47 anything not set uses the U000FFFFF 04:00:06 the last in i the char-name 04:00:51 ABCL decided on Bell and Null .. i dunno though 04:01:38 I'd think the all-caps, max 3 chars long strings would be the "most standard", ie "NUL" and "BEL" 04:02:23 ... It's midnight. My energy level is crashing. And the battery meter on my computer just read 0 for a bit... even though the battery is at full and I'm on mains power. 04:02:41 the #\ reader will accept any case and mmaybe well make it do the three cases as well 04:02:43 unless it's also going to have full text for all the others, like "backspace" or "carriage return" 04:02:46 erm three letter cases 04:02:48 (It also blanked the CPU load meter, which I thought was odd.) 04:03:37 yeah Phoodus, i am using it for the #\ reader table .. and the print readablly 04:03:46 dmiles_afk: oh, I was specifically talkinga bout the char-name output, not the #\ input 04:04:26 Right, it's April. I'm going to bed. 04:04:29 G'night all. 04:04:46 well #\LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_M ==> #\m 04:05:03 that's the unicode standard name, though right? 04:05:09 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:55 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:05:56 but (char-name #\m) ==> "LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_M" 04:06:12 i think so 04:06:14 -!- nicdev [~user@st401-108.subnet-249.amherst.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:21 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:06:23 but i am learning all this 04:06:32 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-152-157.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:40 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:53 this stuff was blindspots in ABCL 04:06:59 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-223-182-12.mia.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 04:08:36 http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NamesList.txt 04:09:43 hmm, seems like 00-1f are technically named "" though 04:10:44 this is the raw official data that those pages are created from: http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt 04:13:35 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:38 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:15:20 aweome Phoodus. looking at them.. daugther called me on phone.. so back in a few 04:15:33 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fqsfkwpkbgmyrrpr] has joined #lisp 04:18:31 *_3b`* wonders if slime autodoc getting confused by labels forms is due to broken emacs or if i just never noticed it before 04:18:44 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 04:23:21 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 04:27:31 Good morning! 04:34:14 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:34:35 good morning beach 04:36:41 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 04:36:41 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-115-217.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:36:47 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 04:40:31 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host81-131-241-198.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 04:40:44 Hey guys 04:40:49 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:15 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:43:59 xavieran pasted "Generate" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97173 04:44:42 Can anyone tell me why, when I run that code, I get (Ace Two)0 04:44:51 note the 0 on the end of (Ace Two) 04:44:54 What does that mean? 04:45:24 try #scheme 04:45:33 xavieran: That looks like a question for #scheme. 04:45:39 Ooops 04:45:45 *_3b`* guesses it is a prompt or something 04:45:47 dreampilot_ [~dreampilo@c-67-190-165-149.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:07 I'd guess it's because display returns 0 04:46:17 <_3b`> yeah, that was my second guess :) 04:46:47 how C of it :) 04:46:52 <_3b`> yep, 'display returns an unspecified value' 04:47:11 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:47:47 I've run it interactively though, and I still get the 0 on the end, even when there's no explicit (display ) call. Or does the interpreter use display itself to display stuff :D 04:48:13 (newline) might be educational. 04:48:52 Zhivago: Genius :) 04:49:11 yep, 0 is printed after the call to (generate-deck 04:49:59 Zhivago: You hang out in ##c too right? 04:50:12 I can even manage to use commas. 04:50:13 I'm doing SICP because you suggested it a couple months back :D 04:50:28 xavieran: you need to learn about the P in REPL. basically, it first reads your form, then evaluates it (displaying the list), then prints the result returned by the form (zero), then loops 04:50:30 I hope that's proving useful for you. 04:51:12 -!- saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 04:51:28 #vvvv 04:51:37 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:51:38 Yes, it is proving useful. I'm quite enjoying it too. 04:53:48 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-115-217.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:54:06 dreampilot_: new here? 04:54:34 yep 04:54:47 dreampilot_: What brings you to #lisp? 04:55:10 I want to learn lisp 04:55:22 Great! 04:55:31 minion: Please tell dreampilot_ about PCL! 04:55:32 dreampilot_: please see PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 04:55:46 dreampilot_: what's your background? 04:55:54 I was inspired by the impromptu project 04:56:05 impromptu.moso.com.au/ 04:56:42 my background is in illustrations. 04:56:52 www.polyfarm.tumblr.com 04:57:02 have you done any programming before? 04:57:18 but I got bored of dealing with interfaces and now I can to make my own. 04:57:57 yes I know some ruby and some processing (java) but not really a programmer. 04:58:39 I also know a thing or two about visual programming languages maxmsp, pure-data, vvvv and things like that. 04:59:09 beach: mightn't gentle be a more friendly book for dreampilot_ ? 04:59:10 but lisp is quite beautiful from where I stand. 04:59:28 madnificent: Yes, probably so. 04:59:30 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59:45 minion: tell dreampilot_ about gentle 04:59:45 dreampilot_: please look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 05:00:57 dreampilot_: have your pick. PCL is a faster, more practical and dense approach. Gentle explains things in a more theoretical way. 05:01:25 dreampilot_: gentle goes a tad slower and is easier to comprehend (imho). But it does take you more pages :) 05:01:43 thank you guys. 05:01:45 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 05:02:22 dreampilot_: impromptu is apparently written in scheme. Scheme is another dialect of lisp. You might prefer it over common lisp if you want to extend the impromptu application itself. 05:03:15 dreampilot_: Scheme is fun :) I personally like how the functions and variables are all in the same namespace 05:03:18 yes I know that. But are they completely different implementations of lisp ? or do they differ only so slightly? 05:03:25 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-eexbvqsreyhzizvp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:03:25 stokachew [~adam@nat/redhat/x-eduhodhzrydmddca] has joined #lisp 05:03:34 dreampilot_: Scheme is a different _flavour_ of lisp 05:03:35 There is no language called 'lisp'. 05:03:45 hahaha :) 05:03:58 Lisp is a family of languages -- in this case Common Lisp people are hijacking the name lisp because of various psychological issues they have. 05:04:09 dreampilot_: Check out: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html 05:04:10 ^_^ 05:04:11 Scheme and Common Lisp are two different languages that fit into the lisp family. 05:04:13 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:04:17 *beach* remains silent 05:04:25 dreampilot_: if you know common lisp, you should get the hang of scheme quickly. Common lisp is the most heavy, with the most features. The OO model in common lisp is extremely sexy for instance 05:04:33 There are other languages such as Dylan, maclisp, elisp, etc, etc. 05:04:40 beach: don't! please don't 05:04:59 don't what beach ? 05:05:03 dreampilot_: I'm writing blog posts about how I'm going through SICP. http://enjacyna.wordpress.com/ 05:05:08 You might find them helpful 05:05:10 madnificent: Such discussions make me tired. 05:05:27 Defending the indefensible is like that. :) 05:05:28 oh nice 05:06:01 dreampilot_: Though, Eli Bendersky has done a much better job :) 05:06:02 http://eli.thegreenplace.net/category/programming/lisp/sicp/ 05:06:09 Zhivago: Nah, it's just that many years ago I learned that being right is overrated. 05:06:09 beach: albeit true, dreampilot_ is likely searching for a basic amount of information, not a discussion. Your view is good for him, the following discussion should not. 05:06:13 there's old MIT video lectures of the SICP class online as well 05:06:21 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:25 I agree beach 05:06:56 s/should not/shouldn't be/ 05:07:05 Beach: Well, the alternative seems to suit you nicely. :) 05:07:17 Zhivago: Thanks! 05:09:02 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:10:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:10:57 I love books like PCL -Seibel makes it quite readable - even for the non-programmer to pick up and start reading. 05:11:22 There aren't many like these that I am aware of and believe me I've looked. 05:11:55 dreampilot_: great 05:13:08 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:15:56 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:17:07 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:29 -!- dreampilot_ [~dreampilo@c-67-190-165-149.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dreampilot_] 05:23:20 hmmm, i seem to write very brittle and crumbly software 05:23:44 house of cards type things that crumble at the first encounter with "bad" input 05:24:21 mostly because exception handling makes good code look ugly :-/ 05:24:56 fusss: probably also because you are using relational databases :) 05:25:25 not now ;-) 05:25:34 Oh, sorry! :) 05:25:54 deserializing soap to lisp objects 05:26:31 xinming [~hyy@218.73.142.142] has joined #lisp 05:28:43 -!- adeht [~user@bzq-84-110-79-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:30:03 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@125.109.250.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:35:46 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 05:35:54 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:36:27 adeht [~user@bzq-84-110-187-102.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:50 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:43 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:47:36 take care all 05:47:49 happy easter, enjoy your 4-day holidays if you got them 05:48:11 Hurrah for OEstra. 05:48:17 hack lisp and drink aussie beer (because you don't wanna know where kiwi beer comes from) 05:48:26 -!- fusss [~kumi@97.107.133.187] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:53:03 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:55:45 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: g'night] 05:57:47 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 05:58:15 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 05:58:30 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [] 05:59:54 porcelina [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:15 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:28 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:03:53 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:05:05 Phoodus: thamnks for the link 06:05:12 *dmiles_afk* finnally back 06:06:18 something i need to learn is if Unicode upper/lowercasing is supposed to work 06:06:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:08:04 057F;ARMENIAN SMALL LETTER TIWN;Ll;0;L;;;;;N;;;054F;;054F 06:08:20 i see the 054F is the inverse case 06:10:52 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:15:31 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:19:06 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WILL TROLL FOR FOOD] 06:25:33 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 06:25:36 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:21 to everyone who told me I did not need to store my sinewave coordinates: you were right! 06:26:51 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29:58 mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:31:05 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:31:18 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-179.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:37 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-179.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:27 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 06:32:50 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 06:32:55 (loop for column from origin-column to columns do <----- what's wrong here? i get unknown keyword "column" 06:33:15 substituting "=" for "from" didn't work either 06:34:51 that's not a complete form, so it's hard to tell what's wrong 06:34:59 http://paste.lisp.org/display/97176 06:35:52 <_3b> LOOP has a block already, and you can name it with NAMED if you want 06:36:08 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:36:08 <_3b> also, you can bind variables with WITH instead of wrapping it with a LET 06:36:08 what's that last line? 06:36:21 i am just learning loop. 06:36:21 i bet i could avoid the block and let enclosing the loop 06:36:25 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.] 06:36:45 <_3b> yeah, that last column after the (when ...) lokos like the problem 06:36:50 bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:02 ahhhhhhhhhh 06:37:17 i was looking at the instance of "column" just after "loop for" 06:38:11 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 06:39:10 you can write the loop like (loop for column from origin-column to columns summing (aref column-widths column) into width when (> width widget-width) return column) 06:39:41 yeah baby 06:41:35 i still need (let ((width 0)) don't i. 06:42:47 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:19 i get warning, this is not a REAL, nil 06:43:45 dto: loop should initialize width to 0 06:44:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:44:54 it doesn't seem to work. i get "warning: this is not a REAL: nil" 06:45:32 http://paste.lisp.org/display/97176#1 06:46:08 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:46:30 http://paste.lisp.org/display/97176#2 06:47:22 try adding "of-type integer" after the "into width" 06:47:35 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 06:48:12 or real, or whatever type you want ;) 06:48:20 adeht: it doesn't seem to make any difference. 06:49:41 from the standard, it says The VAR argument is bound as if by the 06:49:41 construct with to a zero of the appropriate type 06:50:20 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-134-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:50:57 crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 06:51:11 dto: yes, and the section for WITH shows an equivalence with LET*/LET 06:51:31 dto: perhaps your implementation does (let ((width nil)) ... (setq width 0) ...) ? 06:51:37 so what am i missing? 06:52:14 dto: well it works on CLISP.. didn't try it on SBCL 06:53:08 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:58 vng [~user@113.161.70.110] has joined #lisp 06:54:38 Good afternoon! 06:54:54 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 06:55:29 maus [~maus@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 06:55:45 Good afternoon! 06:56:02 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:09 http://paste.lisp.org/display/97176#3 <---- ok so, what is wrong with the loops here? i get the error just above that annotation 06:56:30 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:56:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:58:39 ah 06:58:40 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 06:58:50 well, this form can return nil 06:59:32 in the case where it reaches columns and haven't returned yet 07:00:50 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:01:12 (of course, it may be that AREF will signal an error first if COLUMNS is not a valid index in the array) 07:02:26 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:02:41 i rewrote it and it seems to work now. 07:02:45 thanks for your help adeht 07:02:56 i added an explicit block with return-from 07:03:01 you can add finally (error ...) to make it clear that it shouldn't return NIL 07:05:20 dto: you don't need the (let ((width 0)) ...) 07:05:39 it wouldn't work the way we tried before 07:06:03 dto: wouldn't work in what way? 07:06:23 compilation would fail because of the "this is not a REAL: nil" warning 07:06:37 dto: like I said.. the form I gave could return nil 07:07:22 is that what it's warning about? it never proceeds to the step of returning anything. this warning is during compilation. 07:07:45 it's because the surrounding context treats the result as a real 07:07:59 interesting. 07:08:32 and SBCL infers the type (or number null) for that form (methinks) 07:09:23 or rather, (or real null) 07:10:50 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:13:00 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:10 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:13:57 dto: see choose-target-cell in http://github.com/death/consix/blob/master/consix.lisp btw :) 07:16:48 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:16:50 ok. brbr 07:16:51 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:18:16 Joreji [~thomas@86-168.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:20:52 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-115-217.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:21:14 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 07:23:49 -!- daniel_ is now known as daneil 07:23:51 -!- daneil is now known as daniel 07:24:07 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:17 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 07:25:18 vng` [~user@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 07:26:40 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 07:26:46 -!- vng [~user@113.161.70.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:28:18 -!- vng` [~user@113.161.70.106] has quit [Client Quit] 07:28:51 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:28:51 vng [~user@113.161.70.110] has joined #lisp 07:28:59 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:30:26 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:32:08 -!- stokachew [~adam@nat/redhat/x-eduhodhzrydmddca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:20 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-ntnpsndzaxpbvxtg] has joined #lisp 07:33:21 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:33:33 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 07:33:56 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:38:07 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:38:58 Reaver2 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:39:09 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:10 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 07:42:09 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:45:20 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.172] has joined #lisp 07:50:21 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:22 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:49 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:56:38 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fqsfkwpkbgmyrrpr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:47 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zpapqbinncwglfbe] has joined #lisp 07:59:15 fhc [~fhc@c-71-227-234-97.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:21 vng` [~user@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 08:04:41 -!- vng [~user@113.161.70.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:05:07 (format nil "~:c" #\a) this means to write the name of the char? 08:05:34 ~c is the char "a" but ~:c is Latin_Small_Letter_A? 08:06:47 clisp and sbcl dont do this though with the ":" 08:07:14 vng`` [~user@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 08:07:38 read the spec 08:08:00 -!- vng`` [~user@113.161.70.106] has quit [Client Quit] 08:08:35 CHAR-NAME is there for you 08:08:45 dmiles pasted "ok then this isnt to spec" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97179 08:08:55 -!- vng` [~user@113.161.70.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:09:03 *dmiles_afk* checks the char-name on those then 08:09:04 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: irl] 08:10:22 pookleblinky [~user@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:11:14 dmiles_afk: the spec is quite specific about the behaviour of the #\a case 08:11:26 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:48 attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.200.248] has joined #lisp 08:14:43 sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:15:18 "quite specific", what a combination 08:15:19 gnucheng [~freakrobo@119.96.225.47] has joined #lisp 08:16:05 jdz: thanks found it "spells out names of the control bits and represents non-printing characters by their names" 08:17:22 -!- fhc [~fhc@c-71-227-234-97.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:20:53 is there a *-p for detecting these (not (graphic-char-p ..)) ? 08:21:57 dmiles_afk: what? is (complement 'graphic-char-p) not enough? 08:22:17 is (complement 'graphic-char-p) sufficent was more the qustion 08:22:26 sufficient for what? 08:22:40 ~:C spells out the names of the control bits and represents non-printing characters by their names: Control-Meta-F, Control-Return, Space. This is a ``pretty'' format for printing characters. 08:23:00 for deciding if i must use the char name 08:23:14 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:23:27 *dmiles_afk* tries and sees 08:23:47 i don't quite see what in the spec you don't find clear enough... 08:24:36 the spec is prefectly clear.. saying the implmentation of this lisp needs repaired 08:25:11 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:12 so i tha repair i am trying to test if i am going to use the char-name or not.. 08:25:59 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 08:26:13 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:26:25 in the case of #\a for instance its (graphics-char-p #\a) then i wont need to use the char-name 08:26:37 dmiles_afk: you're "repairing" implementation while not being sure what the spec says? 08:27:00 yes.. currently it is the most complete commn lisp in java 08:27:31 but i starterd with ABCLs codebase.. and fixing some ansi-tests 08:29:08 (graphic-char-p #\space) ==> T .. so graphic-char-p ok is insufficent 08:29:28 sepult`` [~user@xdsl-78-35-197-183.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:28 i have to have a litteral set 08:29:52 dmiles_afk: space is not a printing character 08:30:57 -!- sepult`` is now known as sepult 08:31:14 is there a good predicate for detecting? 08:31:33 detecting what is not a printing character 08:31:46 yes, graphic-char-p 08:31:50 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-35-196-236.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:31:52 start reading the spec, please 08:32:50 ok i wont bug the channel with this.. but (graphic-char-p #\space) (graphic-char-p #\a) are both T.. yet they are differtnt for ~:c 08:33:13 one is "a" the other is "Space" 08:33:19 yes, and that's why you should read the spec 08:33:34 ok i will search for the predicate .. thanks 08:33:42 whatever 08:37:45 Suczker [~c371b452@gateway/web/freenode/x-xownnohzmnlmspfq] has joined #lisp 08:38:16 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:39:08 A space is graphically significant. 08:39:58 -!- Reaver2 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:42:09 if spaces weren't printable, this sentence would be rather hard to read. 08:43:08 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:44:15 dmiles annotated #97179 "this one ends up passing the ansi-tests .. so far " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97179#1 08:44:31 Ralith: please show me the spaces that are printed out on the paper 08:44:57 Zhivago: i see 08:45:07 *Ralith* passes jdz a page of English text 08:45:09 i am trying to mot use member there 08:45:16 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:45:19 was hoping for a better predicate 08:45:33 Ralith: i see no space printed on that page 08:45:54 jdz: I see plenty! 08:45:58 Ralith: imagine a page with spaces only 08:46:02 we seem to disagree on the definition of 'printed' 08:46:25 Ralith: yes, and that is not the point. the point is about what CLHS says about "printing character" 08:47:09 graphic adj. (of a character) being a ``printing'' or ``displayable'' character that has a standard visual representation as a single glyph, such as A or * or =. Space is defined to be graphic. Of the standard characters, all but newline are graphic. See non-graphic. 08:47:28 oh heck i thought there was a whitepace-p 08:47:41 *whitespace-p 08:47:41 jdz: don't really care what your point is 08:47:54 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 08:48:22 printing adj. (of a character) being a graphic character other than space. 08:48:32 space is absence of the matter 08:50:40 stassats: really? 08:50:57 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zpapqbinncwglfbe] has left #lisp 08:51:04 yeah! 08:52:14 maybe in an idealist's mind (excuse the pun) 08:55:23 thanks guys .. yeah just excluding space seems to pass format.c.2 08:56:09 dmiles_afk: and what if ansi tests are incomplet? 08:56:10 e 08:56:13 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:56:38 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:17 jdz: this one only tests across standard-chars . oh indded there are plnty things the ansi tests dont cover 08:58:40 i just want it failing few ansi tests as possible 08:59:33 down to 25 08:59:52 yeah, i figured. first i thought you care about conformance. 08:59:58 -!- maus [~maus@113.161.70.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:00:35 heh i added some conformnce (at least i hoped).. thats how i discovered it caused a regression ;P 09:05:55 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:06:19 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:07:22 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:07:36 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-197-183.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:45 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-197-183.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:09:08 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-197-183.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:40 -!- Suczker [~c371b452@gateway/web/freenode/x-xownnohzmnlmspfq] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:10:53 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 09:10:59 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 09:15:44 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:19:04 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 09:19:05 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:20:48 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:00 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:23:57 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:24:29 tcr: you pointed out some coepoint character conversion loss in ABCL a few months back? 09:25:41 I did?? 09:26:22 it was arround the time the read dispatch table thing got updfated 09:27:13 the problem wasnt fixed though and blamed on java.. it had something to do with some chars being equal that normally wouldnt be 09:27:19 I can't remember; perhaps it was some behaviour that seemed odd to me at the time so I reported it? Can you point to the mailing list posting? 09:27:27 ah right there was something 09:27:39 once i find that entry then i'd be all set 09:28:13 i just updated my impl to not use java chars for lisp chars 09:28:45 so want to see if it was fixed: http://code.google.com/r/logicmoo-invoke-interface/source/detail?r=9dfa905dc46705f60d4d4ced1882505db5a50af3 09:29:10 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:29:58 -!- pookleblinky [~user@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Yow! Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!] 09:30:11 next thing i am doing tonight is removig he 31 bit limit file interaction 09:30:28 63 instead 09:30:58 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-197-183.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:33:39 Guthur [~Michael@host81-131-241-198.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:33:50 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:35:19 pookleblinky [~user@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:37:19 -!- pookleblinky [~user@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 09:39:29 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:39:29 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 09:43:00 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 09:44:39 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 09:50:17 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:51:38 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DD43.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:38 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.234] has joined #lisp 10:01:30 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:35 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 10:08:22 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:10:56 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:11:13 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:11:15 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:12:10 mega1 [~quassel@3e70d278.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:16:11 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:22:54 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:28:01 gl [~gl@coders.fr] has joined #lisp 10:28:31 hi there, could you recommend a good lisp tutorial? 10:29:03 Surely depends on the person being tutored 10:29:07 or a good book 10:29:38 well, I did practice functionnal programming 10 years ago (caml/ocaml), and use moslty C now 10:29:47 with letters in the correct order 10:30:16 minion: tell gl about pcl 10:30:17 gl: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 10:30:40 oh, actually I'm reading it now :) 10:30:51 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 10:31:09 There is LISP if you need more shock-awe 10:31:42 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:32:05 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:33:07 Note that lisps are almost always procedural. 10:34:06 I see 10:34:16 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:34:29 They do tend to support a functional style of programming. 10:34:32 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:36 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.69.53.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:34:51 So you shouldn't have any fundamental problems, coming from C, which is in the same ballpark. 10:35:50 gl: http://abhishek.geek.nz/docs/lisp-answers/ has some useful info 10:36:16 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 10:36:20 xach, I'll take a look, thank you! 10:37:06 zhivago, oh, I though the 'functional' part of my brain would be solicited more than this 10:37:21 (if 'solicited' is a correct english word:) 10:37:32 Zhivago, which definition of "functional" is being used? 10:37:36 thought& 10:37:52 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:39:55 Reaver2 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 10:40:30 It's a word, but it doesn't mean what you think it means 10:41:38 maden [~maden@dsl-149-241.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 10:42:30 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:45:58 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:47:02 -!- Reaver2 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:47:32 kephas [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:07 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:48:59 -!- gnucheng [~freakrobo@119.96.225.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:49:41 gnucheng [~freakrobo@119.96.225.47] has joined #lisp 10:51:12 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:52:52 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 10:53:03 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:00:24 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-149-241.aei.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:26 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.234] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:01:28 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 11:03:12 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:58 Axius [~hi@92.85.222.43] has joined #lisp 11:06:12 -!- Axius [~hi@92.85.222.43] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:07:16 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 11:09:39 abilli [~abilli@salle102.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 11:10:42 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:16 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 11:11:37 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:12:53 is there a way to go from: byte sequence -> bit array without having to shift/mask the bits out myself? 11:13:02 Hi everyone 11:13:16 How can I find for two different key in a sequence ?? 11:13:22 I have a key account and a key year 11:13:52 and I want to return the result of the intersection of the two results 11:14:42 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70d278.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:15:22 abilli pasted "Find" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97188 11:16:35 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:16:50 bytecolor: You want to go from an octet sequence to an array of the underlying bits? 11:17:23 nyef: sure, that would do just fine. I can do it `manually', but... 11:17:56 The "simple" way to do it is format ~X each element, slap a bit-vector read-syntax header on it, and read back in. 11:18:24 The next question is "why"? 11:18:30 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:18:35 nyef: just noodling ;) 11:18:55 playing around with compression 11:19:01 Ah. 11:19:30 nyef: what would be the "efficient and ANSI-compliant" way? 11:19:47 ... not to? 11:19:51 lol 11:19:53 heh 11:20:14 Really, an octet is a vector of 8 bits, if you look at it right. 11:20:29 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:20:52 And if you don't see it, get a copy of Warren, "Hacker's Delight". 11:20:53 but seriously, I'd like to convert an arbitrary length octet sequence into few arbitrary length bit vectors (which might not match octets in length) 11:21:10 Why bit vectors? 11:21:33 doesn't have to be actual bit vectors "deep down", I was thinking more of Erlang's support for manipulating arbitrary length bit-level data 11:21:43 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:12 *p_l* starts thinking of macros generating code that gives illusion of the bit vector on top of octet stream 11:22:34 Well, I might try a lookup table from octets or nybbles to bitvectors, and then use concatenate. 11:22:45 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:22:49 p_l, write macros that emulate Erlang syntax for binary data ;) 11:22:55 :D 11:23:00 the syntax is nice, I like it personally ;) 11:23:24 But then, I never use bitvectors anyway, probably from my C background of treating integers as bitfields. 11:25:04 hrm, so something like: (format t "#*~{~8,'0b~}" '(#x3 #x99 #xff)) 11:25:08 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-xnrsfbxlozvvlpse] has joined #lisp 11:25:23 Wasn't there some "show context" feature on lisppaste? Can't seem to find it anymore 11:25:23 p_l: i'm pretty sure there is a library called binary-something that does what you say 11:25:59 Heh. "binary-something" would be a -great- name for a library. 11:26:11 jdz: I'm pretty sure it didn't exactly match what I wanted and was more geared towards supporting binary formats that fit into octets nicely 11:26:52 p_l: you get the bits at bit granularity from where exactly? 11:27:03 and yes, I agree with nyef, "binary-something" is a great name for a library :D 11:27:27 jdz: it's kinda an annoying issue with telecom protocols, so you might find such stuff for example in ASN.1 11:27:35 pentabit alignment? 11:28:00 direct access to 8B/10B encoding? :D 11:28:17 (because you're driving a GPIO, for example) 11:28:36 p_l: Really, I'd define something over an octet vector-or-stream that returns the next N bits as an integer. 11:29:10 It corrals the integer-bit-munging and the masks and shifts, it gives me a usable interface... 11:29:31 And then I have chunks the size I wanted anyway, instead of having to scan them out of a bitvector. 11:29:45 heh 11:30:51 Reaver2 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 11:32:18 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:35:35 (read-from-string (format nil "#*~{~8,'0b~}" (map 'list #'char-code "h\ 11:35:38 ello"))) 11:35:47 not pretty, but it does work ;) 11:37:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 11:38:46 Wouldn't be fast, either. But I -did- suggest it. 11:38:56 brad- [~48597c07@gateway/web/freenode/x-zlnirxsibjouunvk] has joined #lisp 11:39:03 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:40:02 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 11:40:02 nod, good enough for my noodling. I'm not sending a probe to saturn ;) 11:40:54 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:22 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:44:30 I've been reading a bit about garbage collection with SBCL, specifically this article: http://www.xach.com/sbcl/doc/extensions.html and the one from the sbcl man pages - but I haven't found much information about when sbcl determines to actually do garbage collection. I understand that scope causes stuff to be marked as gcable, but to actually do the gcing - how is that determined? 11:45:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-168.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:47 The reason I was curious about this is moving my sbcl setup from arch to OSX (out of a virtual machine), and testing a project I wrote a few days ago it came up to using about 250 megs of memory in the end, and wasn't reclaimed and was curious how sbcl knows when it should reclaim that space. 11:46:32 TDT: are you sure SBCL was actually _using_ those 250 megs? 11:47:14 Well, according to activity monitor it was using that much (under "Real Memory"), but I could be reading this wrong. 11:47:46 I woudln't be surprised if it was using quite a bit of data, my algorithm is...inefficient to say the least, storing way too much into memory that I don't need to. Rewriting it now, but still curious about the gcing stuff :) 11:48:11 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:48:54 GC usually kicks in when a request for memory cannot be satisfied. cannot comment on the details of SBCL's implementation, though. 11:49:10 there should be people qualified to answer that in this channel... 11:49:37 TDT: if you do (gc :full t) does it reduce down to what you'd expect? 11:49:37 sbcl in gc is triggered when it allocates more memory than *i-forget-what-was-the-name-of-that-variable* 11:49:43 but if your program does not eat all the free memory and then blow up i would not worry too much. 11:50:48 yeah, I'm not too concerned about the memory, just curious is all..and rsynnott, i'll give that a try..let me run the script again (takes about 10m to finish) 11:52:39 stassats`: Ah ok so it's customizable then on the memory it takes. So if using this on a server environment where other processes are running is it kinda helpful for the developer of the project to set that variable slightly higher than requirements for operation to "play nice" with others on the system? 11:52:55 stassats`: or is there some way that's automatically done by the system administrator through some linux command? 11:53:21 that's SB-EXT:BYTES-CONSED-BETWEEN-GCS 11:53:49 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:09 Ah ok, I'll look up in the manual to read more about that. I have a feeling I won't ever need to use it given my stuff is fairly simple, but still would be kinda nice to know about it 11:54:53 gc will not affect how much memory you consume 11:55:00 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:56:30 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 11:56:31 That's a good point..one still needs that peak amount of memory when doing the actual processing..the gcing wouldn't help with the peaks in that case. 11:56:56 Joreji [~thomas@76-173.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:58:39 waddles [~pholvey@nd-129-74-87-212.nat.nd.edu] has joined #lisp 11:59:20 http://john.freml.in/sbcl-optimise-gc -- not a bad article about this as well, and talks about efficiency probelms that are clear that the script I wrote is doing wrong in the first place. 11:59:27 crink [~crink@unaffiliated/crink] has joined #lisp 12:00:29 -!- htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:38 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-ntnpsndzaxpbvxtg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:52 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-lukgmaucrmqbbagk] has joined #lisp 12:01:29 tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has joined #lisp 12:01:45 suczker [~suczker@gprs2.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 12:01:52 tompa1 [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:42 -!- tompa1 is now known as tompa 12:03:18 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:05:26 -!- Reaver2 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:09:50 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.142.142] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:10:15 slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 12:12:00 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:13:29 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:14:16 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host81-131-241-198.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 12:14:54 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:21 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:19:55 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 12:20:39 rsynnott: I ran that command, and yeah, the memory dropped from 250 to 83 megs. 12:23:31 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:24:05 SBCL so far can't do GC per thread? (i.e. without stopping other threads?) 12:27:08 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:59 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:42 p_l: Think of the contention involved and consider the overhead of dealing with that. 12:32:29 Zhivago: yes, I know - I was asking because of another back burner idea to see how one could play with dynamic-extent for that (i.e. to make thread-local stuff reclaimable per thread - abuse that and burn?) 12:34:24 It'd be a nice feature, certainly 12:34:31 sounds terribly difficult to implement, though 12:34:47 There are concurrent GC algorithms. 12:34:58 yep; I've read about them 12:35:00 You pay for what you get, though. 12:35:02 they sound frightening 12:35:17 Much like with real-time GC. 12:35:41 rsynnott: Well, that's why I was thinking of GC'ing only thread-local. Preferably with explicit declaration of what is thread-local 12:35:58 I'm more and more coming to the conclusion that multi-threading is a bad idea for lisp. 12:37:07 for what it's a good idea? 12:37:48 Zhivago: sounds less hard than what apparently happens when you add external asynchronous interrupts, given how some people grumble about implementing that... 12:37:49 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:07 also, APIs tend to be annoyingly blocking :/ 12:38:25 -!- suczker [~suczker@gprs2.vodafone.cz] has left #lisp 12:39:16 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 12:42:13 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 12:42:49 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 12:42:54 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:43:01 I think it'd be nice if you could GC a thread that's in alien code without having to suspend it. 12:44:40 *p_l* ponders how hard would it be to port AUTOZONE to ECL (SBCL is too scary for me right now) 12:44:55 Anything purely functional. :) 12:45:30 Interrupts are much less contentious. 12:45:38 dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:47 -!- adeht [~user@bzq-84-110-187-102.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:49:43 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 12:50:30 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-21-33.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:52:14 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-59-250.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:52:51 ... any idea how to convert XCode project to Makefile? Assuming zero access to Mac? 12:53:13 *p_l* is lost trying to build some Apple source on Linux (to at least find what is missing to port it) 12:54:02 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:54:09 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-241-248.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:12 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:23 p_l: Well, you have the other source files, right? 12:55:01 nyef: yeah, it seems I'll have to manually build it 12:55:20 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:45 I was more thinking "most C programs can be built in any order, and header dependencies are trivial to obtain"... 12:56:48 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 12:57:11 nyef: it's C++ 12:57:21 and I'm terrified by it 12:57:33 bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:34 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:57:34 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:57:42 Same principle applies, as far as build ordering. 12:57:47 -!- bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:01 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:13 Swipe a %.d %.cpp and a %.o %.cpp rule from somewhere, and start with them. 12:58:14 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:58:28 Default to figuring that all of the objects go into the final target... 12:58:52 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:54 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:10 hmm... g++ *.cpp *.c -shared -o test.so <--- that went well... 12:59:21 -!- crink [~crink@unaffiliated/crink] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:00:04 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 13:00:18 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442741.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 13:00:56 I'll have to change some interfaces and write replacements for some preprocessor stuff 13:01:57 -!- slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:02:19 there's some mach-specific headers there 13:02:32 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:02:49 I wonder how it would hold its promise of multithreaded, no stop-the-world GC 13:02:59 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-197-183.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:03:14 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 13:03:32 Odin-MAC [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:03:33 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:03:33 -!- Odin-MAC is now known as Odin- 13:05:09 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-197-183.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:56 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:21 jmbr_ [~jmbr@171.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:13:32 jafet: There is only one sensible definition. 13:14:16 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@127.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:14:23 To each and every person, yes. 13:14:36 I asked for yours in particular. 13:14:56 The one involving functions ... 13:15:29 As opposed to procedural ... involving procedures, or ... 13:15:33 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:15:58 Now you're the one being vague. But I think I get it. 13:16:04 sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:31 "functional: See: working." 13:16:47 Or perhaps "in working order". 13:18:49 leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:21:02 jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 13:22:03 leo2007` [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:22:09 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:10 -!- jan247_ is now known as jan247 13:22:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 13:24:55 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:25:29 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:26:42 carlocci [~nes@93.37.210.17] has joined #lisp 13:28:35 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:42 tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has joined #lisp 13:30:23 jmbr__ [~jmbr@101.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:31:09 -!- abilli [~abilli@salle102.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:09 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@171.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:42:38 lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 13:43:19 -!- jmbr__ [~jmbr@101.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:03 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:46:04 vezult [~work-davi@75-145-242-25-spotsylvania.va.richmond.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:02 using asdf-install, is there any way to specify "do a user install" rather than a system install, so that I don't have to be prompted? 13:48:48 there are ways 13:48:55 vezult: i patch it out in my .sbclrc 13:53:48 Xach: thanks for subscribing LP to planet.sbcl.org 13:55:07 stassats`: thanks, the "how" question was implied. 13:55:58 I removed the system path from asdf-install:*LOCATIONS*, but it doesn't default to the remaining location :o( 13:56:07 (defun asdf-install::where () '(#p"/home/blah/.sbcl/site/" #p"/home/blah/.sbcl/systems/" "Personal installation") 13:56:21 adeht: thanks 13:56:57 alternative, hack the original code 13:57:03 *alternatively 13:57:33 so that if there's only one location, it's the one returned 13:57:36 *stassats`* had to unsubscribe from planet sbcl because of launchpad 13:57:41 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:59:37 why? 14:00:02 i am subscribed to email 14:00:26 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 14:00:46 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:27 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:05:36 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:06:52 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.151.62] has joined #lisp 14:07:54 clhs unwind-protect 14:07:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_unwind.htm 14:08:25 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:46 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:08:58 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:09 -!- leo2007` [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.94.1] 14:09:26 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:09:26 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:09:26 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:10:49 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:12:45 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:15:01 slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:49 weeelpme [~55c89673@gateway/web/freenode/x-vjsvxmglhyjxtehc] has joined #lisp 14:15:55 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:17:08 hello, there is a problem in my code 14:17:22 last few lines gives me a compile error 14:17:23 http://pastebin.com/721ApwhH 14:17:25 anyone? 14:17:40 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.151.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:58 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 14:18:06 hello 14:18:37 Hello fe[nl]ix. 14:18:40 weeelpme: perhaps you should try the --troll switch 14:18:57 hello nyef 14:19:19 I tried this already 14:19:27 thanks anyways 14:19:45 oh come on it is 1. april 14:19:54 don't be a sourpuss 14:20:16 whoa.. lispforum will hit 1000 people very soon 14:20:33 -!- weeelpme [~55c89673@gateway/web/freenode/x-vjsvxmglhyjxtehc] has quit [Client Quit] 14:20:43 Total members 930 14:23:09 udzinari: I'm disappointed that after all this time lispforum still doesn't have syntax highlighting à la colorize 14:23:44 adeht: What's more disappointing is that the colorize source is available. 14:24:05 yep 14:24:13 lispforum isn't actually written in Lisp, is it? 14:24:39 tcr: so? there must be some hook 14:24:49 If it's not, why not? 14:24:51 looks like phpBB3 to me 14:25:04 because Lisp is not useful for anything practical? 14:25:20 i've heard comp.lang.lisp is carried by non-Lisp-powered netnews daemons :( 14:25:51 someone needs to have an exorcism, it seems 14:25:51 Wasn't gmane lisp-powered? At least initially? 14:25:58 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:26:19 the same with github btw.. their syntax highlighting is ugly and buggy 14:28:17 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:31:01 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:31:23 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:32:15 phpBB begone ;-) 14:33:08 Oh, joy, EC2's admin system is down 14:33:12 oops, wrong channel 14:33:41 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:34:54 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:40:53 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:50 ok, so I'm a lisp n00b, in fact, I'm writing my first lisp program. Anyway, so I'm trying to automate an asdf-install. I'm trying to handle the condition where I don't have a gpg key to verify the package with. 14:44:57 vezult pasted "condition handling" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97198 14:44:59 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:36 vezult: btw, I recommend clbuild instead of asdf-install, at least till certain replacements aren't finished for public consumption 14:45:47 When I don't handle the condition, I'm dumped into the debugger with SKIP-GPG-CHECK as one of the options 14:46:00 vezult: you need to use handler-bind 14:46:21 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 14:46:24 stassats`: hmm, ok. I'll research that ;o) 14:46:32 stassats`, thanks! 14:46:52 at the time clauses of handler-case are run the stack is already unwound 14:47:29 -!- sebyte [~sebyte@213.229.74.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:01 and to select a restart you need (invoke-restart 'asdf::skip-gpg-check) 14:48:20 stassats`: ah, ok. 14:48:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:48:53 s/asdf/asdf-install/ surely 14:50:24 milanj [~milan@93.87.194.203] has joined #lisp 14:52:29 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:53:17 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:05 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 14:57:17 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58:44 -!- crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 14:58:51 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:04 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:05:20 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 15:05:29 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:05:59 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:06:01 -!- gnucheng [~freakrobo@119.96.225.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:06:17 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.172] has quit [Quit: off] 15:06:23 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:52 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 15:07:39 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Client Quit] 15:07:49 -!- jao [~jao@136.Red-88-6-173.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:27 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:25 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:52 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 15:11:34 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 15:12:28 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:20:13 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.69.53.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: .•«UPP»•.] 15:21:03 -!- milanj [~milan@93.87.194.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:24:16 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:25:25 wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-141-155-58-209.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:55 kruth [~chatzilla@kruth.org] has joined #lisp 15:26:36 I'm told that no restart skip-gpg-check is active. How does that reconcile with its avilability in the debugger? 15:27:29 do you check in the right place? do you use the right name? 15:27:50 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-25-139.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:28:32 I'm using the name which the debugger specifies as a restart option, if I don't handle the condition 15:30:12 vezult annotated #97198 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97198#1 15:30:17 stassats` annotated #97198 "correct version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97198#2 15:30:25 wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-165-206.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:53 hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:31:10 vezult: try my annotation 15:31:48 and you said that's your first lisp program, conditions and restarts isn't exactly what you need to learn first 15:32:23 -!- wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-141-155-58-209.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:32:45 stassats`: yeah, I'm just attempting to learn as I go - not always the best approach, but necessary at times. 15:33:57 i'd hardly call learning trying to use something without understanding what it does 15:34:04 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:34:14 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:28 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-111-49.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:35:55 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 15:39:20 stassats`: I'm accompanied by "practical common-lisp". So, it's not mindless cut and paste. My issue, as it turns out was that I just needed to namespace my reference to skip-gpg-check: asdf-install::skip-gpg-check 15:41:44 vezult annotated #97198 "fixing my reference to skip-gpg-check did the trick." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97198#3 15:42:01 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:42:47 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:43:22 jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 15:45:15 evening 15:45:15 nikodemus, memo from slyrus: .9 seems to be OK (well, it has different problems, but not this one) 15:45:15 nikodemus, memo from slyrus: .9 is not OK. disregard the first memo. 15:45:26 nikodemus: Happy Thursday! 15:46:02 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:46:02 -!- jan247_ is now known as jan247 15:46:07 slyrus: i'm mostly certain it's not a regression, but the latest occurrance of the occasional cryptic darwin+threads issues we've seen before and never fully resolved 15:46:32 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:37 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 15:46:49 *nikodemus* just picked up "coders at work" 15:47:35 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 15:47:47 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:48:53 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-25-32.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:55 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75514d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:39 huh, the expansion of with-open-file / with-open-stream seems pretty racy 15:55:05 ... Joy. kernel.org is broken. 15:55:47 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:56:00 haha 15:56:07 they should just haved put "oops" there 15:56:29 Guthur [~Michael@host81-131-241-198.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:41 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:57:06 Really, I'm complaining that most of the links are broken. 15:58:12 myu2 [~myu2@KD125029047041.ppp.prin.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:58:14 -!- hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 15:58:27 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:00:22 Okay, nothing of immediate interest in the -rc3 kernel. 16:00:33 And my battery monitor blanked again. 16:00:38 I think I'm seeing a pattern to it. 16:00:56 Heh. At 92%, too. 16:02:35 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 16:02:37 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 16:03:48 Blasted flash player grabbed the keyboard and mouse and wouldn't let go. :-/ 16:04:50 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:08:43 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:08:49 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.79.115] has joined #lisp 16:10:51 Good evening! 16:10:59 nyef: yeah; it'll do that 16:11:11 I've just disabled it at this point on linux; too much trouble 16:11:23 rsynnott: From the properties box, when the video wasn't even running. 16:11:30 Hello beach. 16:11:49 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:12:00 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 16:12:17 My flash situation is currently so bad that the only browser I have with it enabled and working is IE6. 16:13:34 -!- myu2 [~myu2@KD125029047041.ppp.prin.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:00 I don't really have any use for it, now that Youtube doesn't require it 16:14:50 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:17:45 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 16:19:37 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:22:50 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:11 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:25:17 lundis [~lundis@79-133-21-104.bredband.aland.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:21 -!- lundis [~lundis@79-133-21-104.bredband.aland.net] has left #lisp 16:26:05 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:26:06 mega1 [~quassel@3e70d278.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:32:42 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:33:20 ... Do I remember rightly that there's some sort of reserved area beyond the current stack pointer on x86-64? 16:34:03 A "red zone" or something like that that's protected from being overwritten by signal handlers, etc.? 16:35:39 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 16:36:11 yes 16:36:24 that has fun effects on GC of course. :) 16:36:34 Hrm... Does SBCL rely on it existing? 16:36:37 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:13 I don't think so. I don't think it even properly looks at it for its conservative GC 16:37:28 (but maybe it does and I never noticed) 16:37:36 ikki [~ikki@189.139.182.231] has joined #lisp 16:37:47 SBCL's C code probably relies upon it existing, since it's the default for gcc-compiled code. 16:38:07 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-179.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:38:10 Yeah, but I'm more concerned with the output from python, not from gcc. 16:38:29 (see also -mno-red-zone gcc option) 16:40:28 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442741.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:42:46 I guess signals are checked before returning from a syscall, right? 16:43:39 I mean checked and processed if pending by the kernel 16:44:31 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:20 tcr: I would imagine so, yes. 16:50:20 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:52:53 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:55:21 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:36 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:51 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:55:53 -!- tass [~user@81-224-161-54-no110.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:00 There it goes again. Battery meter dies for about 30 seconds at the start of each hour by the clock. 17:02:55 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 17:03:58 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.210.17] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 17:06:02 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.65] has joined #lisp 17:07:33 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 17:08:12 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:12:47 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:30 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:13:52 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:19:07 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@166.132.153.2] has joined #lisp 17:19:58 -!- alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@166.132.153.2] has quit [Client Quit] 17:22:17 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:28:10 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-179.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:34 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:35:01 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:35:11 hi, asdf standards question... when you're developing on an asdf package from scratch, where is the default place to put it in? a.) anywhere, and symbolic link the .asd file to ~/.asdf/systems b.) full source in ~/.asdf/systems c.) other 17:35:44 wherever you like 17:35:55 thanks 17:36:36 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:07 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:39:30 minion: msg for ehu: I'll try to look at the abcl-dev blog article by Saturday. 17:39:31 you speak nonsense 17:39:39 minion: memo for ehu: I'll try to look at the abcl-dev blog article by Saturday. 17:39:39 Remembered. I'll tell ehu when he/she/it next speaks. 17:40:42 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-xnrsfbxlozvvlpse] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:41:02 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:22 stassats`: out of curiosity, where are yours located? 17:41:50 in ~/c/lisp/ 17:42:11 c is for code, perhaps, i don't remember 17:42:19 ha, alright, thanks 17:44:10 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-65-110.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:45:32 nyef: in SysV ABI 17:45:57 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 17:46:14 and the area is locked to always stay in the same place etc. (128 bytes at sp+128b) 17:49:02 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:49:22 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-105-134-152.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:50 brra [~un@87-205-181-129.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 17:59:51 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:58 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 18:00:38 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 18:00:41 dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:44 mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:00:57 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 18:01:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@76-173.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:38 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 18:05:58 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:47 xinming [~hyy@125.109.252.103] has joined #lisp 18:08:16 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:17 ephcon [~ephcon@student164-46.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 18:08:44 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-99-86.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:34 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.79.115] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:10:50 netytan [~netytan@85.211.47.172] has joined #lisp 18:13:15 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082FFD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:51 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B53A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:21:09 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 18:23:15 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:23:42 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-25-32.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:25:59 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-99-86.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:02 dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:6356:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has joined #lisp 18:27:28 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:6356:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:30 dnolen_ [~dnolen@2002:47f7:6356:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has joined #lisp 18:28:25 -!- brra [~un@87-205-181-129.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:28:30 -!- dnolen_ [~dnolen@2002:47f7:6356:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:32 dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:6356:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has joined #lisp 18:28:48 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:30:02 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:30:36 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:05 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-65-110.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:32:19 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 18:34:30 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 18:34:44 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-105-134-152.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 18:35:28 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-lukgmaucrmqbbagk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:07 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student164-46.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:40:33 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-lbggrfisejtpzfzm] has joined #lisp 18:40:38 can anybody suggest a good cl in general lisp faq to show to non lisp crowd? like the one which addresses "lisp is dead" type myths.. 18:41:02 s/in general/or in general/ 18:42:22 udzinari: there's that regex teaching app, SiteGen(sp?) plugin for Photoshop (both done with Lispworks), the oh so overused example - ITA software, various web stuff lately 18:42:46 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:56 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.5] has joined #lisp 18:43:15 also, one could show CCL's integration with Cocoa (outside of Mac, it's slightly worse with GUI, with worst case IMHO being on windows... but you'd have to talk with someone who actually does a lot of GUI work on free lisps) 18:43:49 p_l: With Cocotron, CCL on Windows is getting much better :) 18:44:44 -!- BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:45:16 sellout: I'm wary of building Cocotron on windows, last time I read a guide it suggested cross building from Mac... 18:45:22 BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 18:45:48 any examples of how to setup it on a completely windows based environment? 18:46:34 tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has joined #lisp 18:46:44 milanj [~milan@93.87.168.185] has joined #lisp 18:47:08 I suppose telling them not to use windows for development isn't a viable method? 18:47:25 Guthur: suggesting Mac to me could be met with lethal force ;-) 18:47:35 md1` [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 18:48:14 Is it not possible with linux? 18:48:26 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-166-6.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:26 (srsly, telling someone who doesn't really have money to spend on anything fun that he should buy a machine that wouldn't get used for anything else "just because" isn't a good idea) 18:48:32 I haven't looked into so would be mildly curious 18:48:43 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 18:48:47 p_l: for me looking at this channel and planet-lisp was enough to debunk that.. but then again some people don't get it 18:48:47 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-70-69.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:48:48 p_l: I think that cross-building is still the case for the time-being. 18:48:59 Guthur: I'm not sure how well CCL might interact with GNUstep. And I found GNUstep to fail miserably under XMonad 18:49:35 Meh I'm just going to keep telling myself Mac doesn't exist 18:49:44 The world keeps reminding me though 18:50:10 gz_ [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:52ff:fe76:8913] has joined #lisp 18:50:10 the closest I got to running OSX was a slow VMware copy of 10.5 that could only be suspended because it failed to start 18:50:28 *_3b`* needs to get a mac one of these days, stupid flaky osx GL stuff :/ 18:50:38 I wasn't really impressed by the UI 18:51:12 That application bar along the bottom seems ill conceived, but I have only seen it from afar 18:51:17 for now, I'm thinking of using WebKit for UI 18:51:30 I never use a Mac 18:51:49 Guthur: the "dock"-like bar is older than OSX, much older 18:52:03 *p_l* used it in OS/2 back in good times before Win95 came 18:52:50 Just seemed to take up alot of space 18:53:03 Guthur: you can make it small 18:53:12 From my pov it wasn't really noticeable etc. 18:53:29 May the one i seen had it on super large 18:53:34 Maybe* 18:53:50 but lack of XMonad basically removes it from the list of systems I'd *like* to run. Windows is actually more bearable to me. 18:55:11 Its the Mac philosophy that bugs me the most; consumer lock-in, marketing over substance, and 'Mac way or the highway' 18:55:25 Anyway before its mention I will stop the OT 18:58:43 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.169] has joined #lisp 18:59:29 ephcon [~ephcon@student164-46.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 19:02:27 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 19:03:18 is anyone here using slime from ELPA with sbcl? 19:03:35 it works fine with clojure, but with sbcl I get 19:04:03 Couldn't load "/home/bozhidar/emacs/elpa/slime-20091016/swank-loader.lisp": 19:04:03 file does not exist. 19:04:04 19:04:11 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-150-57.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:13 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.143.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:04:14 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:04:41 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:04:54 clbuild is what people around here use, bozhidar 19:04:54 I don't have such file in the folder so I'm thinking maybe slime was not properly packaged? 19:05:36 bozhidar: use clbuild, especially with slime, since slime gets updated *very* often and doesn't really seem to have a "release" 19:06:10 thanks for the tip 19:06:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:23 I'll have a look at clbuild 19:06:25 bozhidar: also, Chech/Slovakia/Russia? 19:06:36 Bulgaria :-) 19:06:39 hah 19:06:47 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:06:52 the name sounded close enough :D 19:06:53    ,      ;-) 19:06:53 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 19:07:07 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student164-46.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:07:24 *p_l* is polish, can't read cyryllic to save his life ^^; 19:07:24 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:07:49 cyrillic languages are pretty similar so people naturally get confused 19:07:58 but Bozhidar is only a Bulgarian name 19:08:05 nope 19:08:18 it's a name common to all slavic languages 19:08:20 it literally means Godsend 19:08:31 To je jedno. 19:08:36 yes, it does. And so it means in all slavic languages :D 19:08:49 strange 19:08:52 I know Russian 19:08:56 (in polish it's written as "Boydar", a rather rare name) 19:09:01 and I know a lot of Russian fellows 19:09:11 I've never come across the name 19:09:25 bozhidar: it's rather rare now, but it still exists 19:09:45 p_l: I see, it's rare here as well 19:09:47 it's one of the "native" names, too - unlike names like Peter, Paul etc. 19:10:05 it's not considered modern enough 19:10:21 most parents name their children with English names these days... 19:10:46 p_l: so this problem is common as well 19:10:55 bozhidar: most "common" names are actually hebrew, greek or roman, even. 19:11:05 blame Christianity for that ;-) 19:11:21 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.208.50] has joined #lisp 19:12:05 p_l: variations of hebrew, greek or roman names actually :-) 19:12:14 bozhidar: well, localised versions. 19:12:59 p_l: indeed 19:14:46 nothing compared to how the hare became a symbol for easter... 19:15:14 it was interned? 19:15:38 jao [~jao@136.Red-88-6-173.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:43 stassats`: yes. And the reason it got into place it could be interned from? It fucks a lot in the spring, Q.E.D. -_-; 19:15:44 p_l: it certainly is not the symbol for Easter around here 19:16:08 bozhidar: go north and it becomes one. 19:16:08 I've only seen it in the movies and always wondered what it had to do with the resurrection of Christ... 19:16:10 orthodox easter? 19:16:14 yes 19:16:27 Easter is this Sunday & Monday 19:16:55 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:57 both at the same time this year 19:16:57 bozhidar: it has nothing to do with Easter and everything to do with being a pagan symbol of fertility, which got interned somewhere along with the purpose of spreading the faith easier. 19:16:59 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 19:17:28 Same with the trees in december 19:18:01 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:18:09 The danced round evergreens in the winter, it was a sign of eternal life or some such 19:18:10 p_l: And the name of the holiday, for that matter. 19:18:23 The/They 19:19:02 p_l: a lot of Christian holiday have origins in pagan rituals I think 19:19:15 Christmas is one as far I know 19:19:38 at least as far as timing is concerned 19:20:14 Indeed, well there is no evidence Jesus celebrated his birthday either 19:20:58 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:28 heh 19:21:43 religion is boring, let's talk lisp 19:21:45 ^_- 19:21:54 yeah, speaking of religion :P 19:22:06 lol 19:23:05 I designing an Lisp based asset management system for my game engine, but not much to talk about there really 19:23:12 I/I'm 19:24:40 lisp is far more exciting indeed 19:24:45 *p_l* is doing some pure HTML/CSS/JS right now, with possibility of adding Lisp backend for some of the more advanced features 19:25:07 I got clbuild running 19:25:08 (also some packaging/release/distribution-related tools for community's sake) 19:25:18 but I'm wondering something 19:25:36 is there a way to make it attach to emacs --daemon 19:25:37 p_l: do you have a webhost? 19:25:47 instead of starting a new emacs instances 19:25:47 I'm scouting for options 19:25:54 when running clbuild slime 19:26:09 bozhidar: you can copy slime config to your .emacs 19:26:35 by running clbuild slime-configuration 19:26:50 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:21 though you might want to remove (setq slime-use-autodoc-mode nil) 19:28:16 autodoc-mode == eldoc-mode? 19:28:25 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 19:28:32 like eldoc-mode, but for slime 19:28:55 it's based on eldoc-mode, but quite a bit cooler :-) 19:29:18 i don't know why it's disabled in clbuild, perhaps i should finally send a patch 19:29:45 _8david` doesn't like that it's run in the background 19:29:58 well I've used Common Lisp a couple of years ago and I remember SLIME having some cool function parameter hints 19:30:03 Guthur: rather specific one, for now. For the "work" project, I'm thinking of going with Linode or similar 19:30:19 but afterwards I've doing mostly Elisp and a little bit of Clojure 19:30:24 tcr: i believe he can edit his .emacs 19:30:28 setting slime-use-autodoc-mode to nil, but still using slime-fancy (and hence slime-autodoc) yielded the behaviour that SPC (and only SPC) resulted in slime-autodoc 19:30:53 I'm not sure that behaviour is actually still there 19:31:54 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:06 guessing from the code that behaviour changed 19:32:30 tcr: space doesn't use autodoc 19:32:53 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:34:07 I'll post to clbuild-devel 19:34:16 p_l: cheers, having a look see 19:36:31 ephcon [~ephcon@student164-46.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 19:39:03 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-70-69.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 19:41:24 nilboog [~un@unaffiliated/nilboog] has joined #lisp 19:41:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:41:40 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:6356:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:47 dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:6356:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has joined #lisp 19:42:23 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:43:42 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-70-69.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:44:44 kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk093111080197.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:55 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:48:11 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:48:30 ravster [~p@CPE000c41a8878f-CM00195efb5296.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:48:57 Hello all 19:49:03 suczker [~suczker@gprs5.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 19:49:21 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-191-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:01 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:6356:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:52:40 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 19:52:54 mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:55:32 -!- suczker [~suczker@gprs5.vodafone.cz] has quit [] 19:57:09 mattrepl [~mattrepl@wsip-70-164-44-81.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:24 hi 20:00:49 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:12:27 prxq [~mommer@f051035027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:13:15 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:15 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-lbggrfisejtpzfzm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:27 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-pvafkjgjlaiefbjj] has joined #lisp 20:14:49 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:10 <_8david`> tcr: slime configuration in clbuild should reflect #lisp consensus. I'm nt certain how the autodoc thing got there. 20:15:28 hi 20:15:39 <_8david`> Can you clarify whether it is enough to just remove it, or whether I need to add something else? 20:15:50 it's enough to remove it 20:16:48 dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:62d6:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has joined #lisp 20:16:51 _8david`: You asked me how to achieve the behaviour (no background, just on SPC) because that's how you liked it, and clbuild was still mostly luke's/your's cl source bucket 20:16:55 Terminal input is line-oriented anyway, isn't it? 20:17:52 *p_l* tries to merge lispy, asdf-install and clbuild into one executable 20:18:11 nyef: not really, it's just set into line-buffered mode by default 20:18:16 Mmm. 20:18:43 There is something -wrong- with my model for how the REPL should work. 20:18:57 think of it as "basic octet stream that has an extra driver implementing buffering and recognition of certain features and giving you higher-level interface" 20:18:58 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-150-57.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 20:19:13 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-150-57.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:17 nyef: and what is your model? 20:19:37 I'm not sure? 20:19:52 Basically, it's sufficiently ill-defined that I can't really reason with it. 20:21:33 <_8david`> tcr:pushed, please test 20:21:50 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 20:22:01 <_8david`> (or don't test :-), but it's out there) 20:24:41 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:40 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: be back later] 20:35:12 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-136-156.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 20:37:28 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 20:38:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:20 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined 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#lisp 21:32:15 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.146] has joined #lisp 21:32:32 mattrepl [~mattrepl@ip98-163-100-144.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:13 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:26 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:35:50 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:40:02 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:40:15 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:40:46 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:09 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:44:18 -!- sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 21:47:34 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 21:48:44 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:62d6:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 21:49:11 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-98-214.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:50:32 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@ip98-163-100-144.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:51:37 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-98-214.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:36 attila_lendvai_ [~ati@adsl-89-132-50-112.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:00:54 dang i always forget to start clisp with -ansi when comparing it to sbcl 22:03:50 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.200.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:06:00 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-CDE684CB.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: gz_] 22:06:00 -!- gz_ [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:52ff:fe76:8913] has quit [Quit: gz_] 22:06:38 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:07:54 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:19 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:42 -!- PuffTheMagic_ is now known as PuffTheMagic 22:11:39 -!- md1` [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:14 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:15:15 frito [~user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:21 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 22:18:25 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 22:18:32 ... I almost hope this build fails. The hack I have in mind shouldn't be this easy. 22:19:02 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:48 -!- vezult [~work-davi@75-145-242-25-spotsylvania.va.richmond.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:21:53 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-95-234.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:22:07 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:22:10 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70d278.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:23:16 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:27:29 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:31:57 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:32:26 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:16 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:13 -!- kruth [~chatzilla@kruth.org] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 22:39:19 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:53 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:40:25 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.146.235.155.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:40:41 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.76.106.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:41:09 ephcon [~ephcon@student164-189.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 22:42:29 (-: 22:43:29 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 22:43:39 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:45:17 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.208.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:46:22 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:46:27 -!- Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-70-69.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 22:52:14 building sbcl on a 1Ghz PIII takes a looooong time 22:52:37 Yeah, I bet it does. 22:52:39 <_3b`> try on 450mhz :p 22:52:47 <_3b`> (1hr or so if i remember right) 22:52:53 Was thinking 2-3 GHz P4, TBH. 22:53:09 *_3b`* doesn't update that one too often 22:53:24 nyef: ? 22:53:42 prxq: I have a P4 machine that I might end up using for SBCL stuff. 22:53:49 it takes around 15 minutes on a 3GHz P4 22:53:52 ah ok 22:54:17 the laptop in question was too underpowered for an idle ubuntu installation. 22:54:24 Thing only has a half-gig of RAM, making it the weakest machine I've still got in use. 22:54:30 it just kept overheating 22:54:37 -!- benny [~benny@i577A85D1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:54:42 amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:54:53 nyef: motherboard limitation? 22:55:13 hm... the build actually took... 20 minutes 22:55:24 No, it maxes out at 2 gigs. 22:55:36 I just don't have that much DDR-333 RAM available. 23:00:30 *prxq* is trying out freebsd on the poor thing 23:01:30 (Okay, I lied, I -do- have two gigs of DDR-333 RAM available. But they're for a laptop, not a desktop.) 23:01:51 (And available is questionable, too: Said two gigs is already in a computer.) 23:02:01 higher clocked ram is supposed to work on such a machine 23:02:12 i.e. they are backward compatible 23:02:39 ... I think I can scare up a single stick of PC-100. 23:03:59 bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:37 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:05:52 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:36 -!- frito [~user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:09:20 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.208.50] has joined #lisp 23:09:35 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.208.50] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:10:03 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.208.50] has joined #lisp 23:10:03 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.208.50] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:10:36 -!- nilboog [~un@unaffiliated/nilboog] has left #lisp 23:10:58 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 23:13:18 Bwah? The SBCL packages include recursive dependencies?!? :-/ 23:13:41 what ? 23:13:50 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:14:27 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student164-189.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:14:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.208.50] has joined #lisp 23:15:08 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.208.50] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:16:04 try 233 MHz P5MMX with 48MB of RAM ;P 23:16:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.208.50] has joined #lisp 23:16:32 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.208.50] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:16:33 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:01 though I'll admit I didn't try compiling anything *that* big on that laptop... eternal plains of computation shall house its soul... 23:17:05 no, try 486 with 16MB of RAM 23:17:12 -!- prxq [~mommer@f051035027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:48 Right now building on an N450 with a gig is trying my patience. 23:17:51 i compiled X on that, took half a day 23:18:23 stassats`: I can whip out a KS-10 and try maclisp... :P 23:19:14 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-136-156.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:19:48 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:00 wait till i fetch my slide ruler 23:23:04 knobo [~user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 23:23:17 *p_l* has a slide ruler as well 23:24:08 time to compile sbcl on it 23:25:54 can i not specify :metaclass each time but just use a superclass with that metaclass? 23:26:01 stassats`: nope (: 23:26:38 alright, i'll just need to type a little more 23:26:46 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:27:09 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:27:36 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:04 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:29:04 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:18 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 23:29:21 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:29:21 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 23:29:21 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 23:30:26 I shall compile with a Rule 110 Cellular Automata, hehe 23:31:55 into a pretty picture of useless complexity 23:35:32 Odin-MAC [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 23:35:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@adsl-89-132-50-112.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:31 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 23:37:44 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:44 -!- Odin-MAC is now known as Odin- 23:41:09 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:41:12 tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:bbff:fe00:80c6] has joined #lisp 23:43:00 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 23:48:34 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:57 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 23:52:00 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:54:57 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:15 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-221-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:25 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.47.172] has quit [Quit: netytan] 23:59:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec]