00:05:38 racecondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 00:06:19 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-116-184.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07:44 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@164.245.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:09:11 jmbr [~jmbr@41.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 00:13:58 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 00:16:32 troussan [~user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:11 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:17:30 saikat [~saikat@c-24-7-58-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:31 ... Can anyone explain the debug.impure.lisp test (THROW NO-SUCH-TAG)? It looks like it only is expected to work on PPC, HPPA, and SPARC SUNOS. 00:17:49 -!- tcr [~tcr@85-127-204-224.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:18:45 minion: memo for gigamonkey, in codequarterly; (defmethod session-cookie-name ((acceptor t)) "a better name than 'hunchentoot'") :-) 00:18:45 Remembered. I'll tell gigamonkey when he/she/it next speaks. 00:20:44 gigamonkey: and apache is sending a funky value for the Location header 00:25:17 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 00:26:31 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229146222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 00:26:33 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:27:46 -!- troussan [~user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:46 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:30:00 apache gasp! you mean hunchentoot of course! 00:30:19 azathoth99: o_O? moi? 00:30:28 aye 00:31:24 apache sitting on front of hunchentoot 00:31:39 oow 00:31:48 what mod_proxy_http? 00:33:56 mod_lisp? 00:34:13 mo_OD_lisp 00:34:37 just mod_proxy does the trick, dunno what he is using 00:34:51 so hey can I look at your website? 00:34:55 or is it internal? 00:36:18 what? 00:36:35 what url is your lisp powered site? 00:36:51 www.fusslisp.org? 00:37:16 azathoth99: mine is wigflip.com 00:38:50 http://intra.gulfnews.com/ 00:39:01 :-) 00:40:13 pnq [~gaiug@AC82DD26.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:31 http://shoogooble.blogspot.com/?expref=next-blog holy crap, went to wigflip and hit next blog and got this 00:44:17 brandonedens [~brandon@96.238.16.104] has joined #lisp 00:45:22 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-24-7-58-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:36 saikat [~saikat@c-24-7-58-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:11 athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:13 hi 00:46:28 athlon: so, did you solve your slime problem? 00:46:31 What to do with spaces in path on win? 00:46:37 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 00:46:41 Shit!!!! 00:46:42 i was about to propose Progra~1 00:47:06 progra~2 00:47:15 I am on win7x64 00:47:51 -!- athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:56 party like it's dos-3.2 00:48:31 enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:35 athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:48 i try to start inferior-lisp 00:49:52 emacs says 00:49:54 apply: Searching for program: no such file or directory, 'c:/Progra~2/clisp-2.48/clisp.exe' 00:50:28 try c:\\Progra~2\\clisp-2.48\\clisp.exe 00:51:00 -!- athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:29 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483E3F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:51:58 ... 00:52:17 no comments about stupid answers regarding spaces in paths :> 00:52:29 meh 00:52:38 just move your lisp to C:\clisp\ 00:52:39 athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:42 o! 00:52:46 It' s work 00:52:46 athlon: restarting emacs for this, not wise 00:53:00 i restart it 100 times 00:53:12 i had restarted it 100 times 00:53:19 my name is athlon 00:53:29 i have bad english 00:53:30 I restart LW 6 times a day 00:53:42 fusss: or write the complete path, including spaces, and make sure that if it's passed to cmd.exe, it's in quotes 00:54:10 *stassats* looks at his current emacs process, started five days ago 00:54:24 athlon: you don't need to restart emacs to change a variable 00:54:38 i know 00:54:44 *p_l* restarts only because of power failures 00:54:55 m-s set variable? 00:54:58 m-x 00:55:26 i opened file in emacs, how to evaluete it in slime mode? 00:55:39 well, there're many ways, that's one of them 00:55:54 athlon: evaluate stuff in the *scratch* buffer 00:56:10 or set the mode to elisp mode and C-c C-e 00:56:19 err C-x C-e 00:56:32 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:38 i dont need emacs-lisp 00:56:40 fusss: i thought athlon was asking about lisp files 00:56:48 yes 00:56:50 lisp file 00:57:03 i need to run it, and take it out from console 00:57:09 C-M-x 00:57:38 dnolen_ [~dnolen@pool-70-19-64-12.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:40 athlon: read documentation, there's too much ways to mention 00:57:53 http://common-lisp.net/projects/slime/doc/html/Evaluation.html 00:58:02 http://common-lisp.net/projects/slime/doc/html/Compilation.html 00:58:27 minion: please tell athlon about slime.mov 00:58:27 C-M x is not highlighted in SLIME menu... 00:58:28 athlon: please see slime.mov: "using SLIME" video by Marco Baringer, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 00:59:31 athlon: http://paste.lisp.org/display/95340 01:00:58 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:00:58 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 01:02:42 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:02:48 I press C-M-x, it says "not connected" 01:03:05 before i run M-x slime 01:03:14 then M-x slime-connect 01:03:19 shittt!!!!!!!! 01:03:31 lol 01:03:34 slimed! 01:03:42 you don't need slime-connect here 01:03:46 I remember slime was easy to instll 01:03:47 ok 01:05:04 and i recall that you had only (slime-setup) in your .emacs, (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) is better 01:05:43 -!- athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:06:54 athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:51 Connecting to Swank on port 39591.. [2 times] 01:07:52 Lisp connection closed unexpectedly: connection broken by remote peer 01:08:04 it's m-x slime output 01:08:21 what's in the *inferior-lisp* buffer 01:08:24 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 01:08:26 ? 01:10:08 (64 [110] handler frame for conditions SWANK-RPC:SWANK-PROTOCOL-ERROR) 01:10:08 (65 01:10:08 <1/103> # 01:10:08 - #) 01:10:11 (66 [102] handler frame for conditions SWANK-RPC:SWANK-PROTOCOL-ERROR) 01:10:15 (67 [96] compiled tagbody frame for #(NIL)) 01:10:18 (68 01:10:21 [89] frame binding variables (~ = dynamically): 01:10:24 | ~ SWANK::*SLIME-INTERRUPTS-ENABLED* <--> #) 01:10:27 (69 01:10:31 [85] frame binding variables (~ = dynamically): 01:10:34 | ~ SWANK-BACKEND:*PENDING-SLIME-INTERRUPTS* <--> #) 01:10:37 (70 01:10:40 [82] frame binding variables (~ = dynamically): 01:10:41 | ~ SWANK::*EMACS-CONNECTION* <--> NIL) 01:10:44 (71 01:10:48 <1/77> # 01:10:51 [75] unwind-protect frame) 01:10:54 (72 01:10:57 <1/71> # 01:10:58 sigh 01:11:01 - #) 01:11:04 (73 01:11:07 <1/68> # 01:11:10 - #) 01:11:11 (74 [65] unwind-protect frame) 01:11:14 (75 01:11:18 <1/61> # 01:11:21 - #) 01:11:24 (76 01:11:27 <1/56> # 01:11:29 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o drewc 01:11:31 - NIL) 01:11:34 (77 01:11:37 <1/50> # 01:11:38 -!- drewc [~drewc@89.16.166.162] has been kicked from #lisp 01:12:35 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 01:13:11 athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:15 We should teach minion to do that. 01:13:22 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:41 indeed 01:13:50 :-((( 01:13:53 athlon, next time, use lisppaste 01:13:59 read the channel /topic 01:14:01 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:14:02 ok 01:14:45 -!- Sumpen [Sumpen@138.199.66.90] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 01:14:54 athlon: there is no IRC channel anywhere that would appreciate that kind of flooding. 01:15:03 unless it's #flood 01:15:24 or #freenode-newyears or whatever that one channel was 01:15:48 it's not flood 01:16:09 but in general, i stand by the assertion that you shouldn't flood, and don't argue with channel ops ;) 01:16:34 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-134-235.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:16:56 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:17:41 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:16 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:09 ;; Connection to Emacs lost. [ 01:20:09 ;; condition: WRITE-STRING: Character #\u041F cannot be represented in the character set CHARSET:ISO-8859-1 01:20:09 ;; type: SIMPLE-CHARSET-TYPE-ERROR 01:20:09 ;; encoding: # style: NIL dedicated: NIL] 01:20:11 ;; swank:close-connection: NIL 01:20:14 39625 01:20:58 do i had to use paste-lisp? It's iferior lisp output. I'am lost and need to sleep. 01:21:02 athlon, even that is considered too much by some people 01:21:24 sigh 01:21:36 what part of use a pastebin doesn't make make sense. 01:21:39 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:04 *Adlai* is guessing "use a bin", since the "paste" seems to be making sense >____> 01:22:36 Adlai: paste in binary? 01:23:03 R tape loading error! 01:24:14 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:06 athlon: If you need sleep, get some. The problem will still be there in the morning, but you might be able to think through it then. 01:26:05 ok 01:26:15 i need to drink some vodka 01:26:34 Trying to make sure you -can't- think through it in the morning? 01:28:03 sheesh, those russians 01:28:19 I am not russian 01:29:14 It's cold over the window and bear on sputnic flying in the space. 01:29:32 so minix+emacs to obsolete windows! 01:29:39 ... Looks like I'm up to three things (other than wider-fixnums) to check in once the freeze period is over. 01:29:53 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:33 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-206-139.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:31:34 more than word-size fixnums? 01:31:58 Mostly bugfixy things, actually. 01:32:31 x86-64/linux: " Unexpected success: debug.impure.lisp / (THROW NO-SUCH-TAG)" 01:32:59 -!- racecondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:33:28 I've got a possible fix for lp#309067, and a tested-and-hopefully-reliable fix for lp#379472. 01:33:39 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:34:02 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:09 ... And, actually, there shouldn't be too much of a cost in comitting the first part of the Win32 SIGINT stuff. 01:34:44 Diehko [~Diego@186.82.56.82] has joined #lisp 01:35:09 are there someone here?? 01:35:13 Nope. 01:35:28 nobody here but us chickens 01:35:46 mmm 01:35:46 -!- qamikaz [~alper@85.107.70.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:55 ('are' is plural, btw, and doesn't agree with 'someone', which is singular.) 01:36:24 drewc: I thought you used CL, not Scheme? 01:36:51 *Adlai* suddenly envisions a C-stack-based CL called CLicken 01:37:01 hahaha... took me a second there :) 01:38:44 Adlai: and with an extensions repository "cleg" 01:39:04 testing this chat.. 01:39:23 Diehko: it's not working 01:39:32 Diehko, /join #test 01:40:20 It's my first time on gaim.. 01:40:23 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:41:18 -!- pnq [~gaiug@AC82DD26.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]] 01:41:32 hm, I have a slight patch for destruct 01:41:44 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.201.38] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:42:57 Adlai pasted "SBCL defstruct warning" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95681 01:43:26 i'm trying to load YASON by doing (require :yason), and the directory that holds the .asd is listed in asdf:*central-repository*, but i am getting "don't know how to require yason" error. if i launch SBCL from the same directory as the .asd file, the require works fine. 01:43:29 would a (very short) patch fixing that warning be accepted, even though SBCL is in freeze right now? 01:43:30 -!- Diehko [~Diego@186.82.56.82] has left #lisp 01:44:07 lithper2_: i suspect the *central-registry* 01:44:12 lithper2_: what's it look like? 01:44:25 -!- athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:14 oops, i did mean *central-registry* and not *central-repository*. should i paste the content? it contains several directories to other libraries. 01:46:18 Adlai: i don't know, but this doesn't look like a showstopper, could wait till release 01:46:38 lithper2_: paste it 01:47:07 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #lisp 01:47:12 lithper2_ pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95682 01:47:32 stassats, it's a very trivial patch, though 01:48:02 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:48:40 lithper2_: i'd think that it should have pathnames, not namestrings 01:49:02 lithper2_: try adding a slash to the end of "/home/turning/yason" 01:49:42 rme: that worked! 01:50:25 is there a reason behind that? i noticed this was only a problem with yason. 01:50:40 hmmm 01:51:14 the combination of pathnames stored in database and portability is kinda painful 01:51:37 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@144.198.182.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:52:08 works great, until you pg_dump data from one OS to another 01:52:36 fusss: clearly, it should have cl pathnames 01:52:40 then don't do that! 01:52:58 Adlai: I suspect that it would end up waiting until we're out of freeze. 01:53:17 i have files uploaded by users, and stored in this scheme user-id/project-id/file-name.type 01:53:24 Adlai: I've got stuff that's clear improvements to the status quo, but aren't so critical as to warrant going in during freeze. 01:53:58 nyef, alright. I'll put the patch on launchpad anyways, just so I don't forget later on. 01:54:31 -!- brandonedens [~brandon@96.238.16.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:54:46 fusss: how you store that file should be indepentant of the data in the database... you should just be storing a table with file-name, user-id and project-id 01:55:25 *drewc* is spelling quite poorly today! 01:55:30 must be excited about the game :) 01:55:38 drewc: i already have that. file object has a project-id slot, and i project-user-id utility function. revamping now. 01:55:45 ... ":fails-on :sbcl"? WTF? 01:56:28 fusss: you want a MERGE-USER-PROJECT-PATHNAME function... that's how i do it anyway 01:56:41 drewc: bingo! 01:57:00 lisp, a programming language for startups! 01:57:13 azathoth99: stop acting like a gavino 01:57:42 -!- spacebat [~akhasha@ppp121-45-123-182.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:58:25 drewc: i already had it (wrote it 6 months ago) GRAPHIC-URL 01:58:45 -!- azathoth99 is now known as gavino_himself 01:59:06 spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-226-233.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:56 that's not gavino, that's technoninja 02:05:49 xach I want to be your friend 02:05:54 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:08:10 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 02:09:13 Adlai: so, you volunteer to test possible CLicken implementations? :P 02:11:15 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-24-7-58-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 02:11:33 maybe? 02:11:35 Does anyone happen to have a dozen or two old SBCL releases installed and ready to test some code compatibility? 02:12:07 buildapp doesn't work with some debian sbcl because it uses symbols that aren't in sb-ext in that old version. 02:12:13 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:12:16 *Xach* wonders what the minimum buildap sbcl version is 02:13:09 why not use the latest? will that drive some people bonko? 02:14:07 gavino_himself: I would like to identify the version of the oldest sbcl that will work with buildapp. 02:14:10 Adlai: been considering one that would be compatible with SysV ABI and Win32/64 ABI 02:14:18 that way i can tell people "you need to use version X or newer" 02:17:29 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@32.133.161.107] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 02:17:57 Xach: have 0.83 and 0.85 02:18:16 those aren't even real versions. 02:18:22 are 02:18:28 pre threading, iirc :-) 02:18:35 at least nptl threading 02:18:39 aren't. sbcl never used versions like that. 02:18:42 running allegroserve 02:19:14 kidding me right? i used 0.81-0.86 02:19:25 i doubt it. 02:19:32 so WITH-STANDARD-IO-SYNTAX changes the *PACKAGE* inside the body? 02:19:46 0.85 was the one that added threading; i remember because i had to upgrade to a 2.6 kernel 02:20:03 dmiles_afk: that's what the spec says. 02:20:10 fusss: no, it wasn't. 02:20:45 Xach: yeah.. i was reading that.. i guess thats what it meant.. had to ask :) 02:22:07 more like 0.pre8.85 02:22:16 soemthing i am trying to find out is what is a "The standard pprint dispatch table 02:22:23 is it empty? 02:22:26 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:22:29 fusss_ [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:22:54 dmiles_afk: the glossary is pretty explicit about it 02:23:42 ``the standard pprint dispatch table'' is called for. As such, this phrase should be seen as an indefinite reference in all cases except for anaphoric references. 02:23:52 Xach: you lose :-) http://sourceforge.net/projects/sbcl/files/ 02:24:24 fusss_: I don't see an 0.85 there. do you? 02:24:34 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:24:39 http://sourceforge.net/projects/sbcl/files/sbcl/0.8.5/sbcl-0.8.5-source.tar.bz2/download 02:24:41 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 02:24:43 Ah fuck 02:24:51 yes, i am an idiot :-( 02:25:03 what do i win? 02:25:03 0.8.5, not 0.85, or 8500 02:25:16 200 internets 02:25:16 *Xach* hopes it is buildapp testing 02:25:30 let me check my versions 02:26:27 changes in sbcl-0.8alpha.0 relative to sbcl-0.7.14 * experimental native threads support 02:28:14 Xach: 1.0.30 linux x86, 1.0.32 linux x86, 1.0.35 linux amd64, 1.0.29 win32 x86 02:29:15 i have 1.0.23 02:29:25 stassats: it used a crappy threading model until (dan_b and xof?) moved to nptl 02:29:45 or maybe it was a major kernel upgrade at that time 02:29:48 brb 02:30:02 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 02:30:15 will we see sbcl-1.1 in our lifetime? 02:31:14 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Client Quit] 02:31:29 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 02:31:32 stassats: yes. 02:32:57 *stassats* waits patiently for two years 02:33:55 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:06 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:42:15 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 02:42:36 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-64-12.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:46:12 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:15 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 02:51:26 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:51:52 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:40 pnq [~gaiug@AC8261EA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:58 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:58:01 SBCL 10 <- look the version is HUGE it must be good! 03:00:02 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-81-42.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:42 -!- mrbug [~user@cpe-67-241-10-210.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:01 marioxcc [~user@201.132.83.180] has joined #lisp 03:08:58 cmucl is already at 20 03:09:06 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 03:09:59 We could go by svn revision numbers; ccl would be at version 13464 or something. 03:17:03 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-206-139.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:05 rme: sorry i never had a chance to thank you for the ccl help yesterday 03:19:12 was at work and got distracted 03:23:11 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:53 np 03:24:05 -!- pnq [~gaiug@AC8261EA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]] 03:24:38 fusss_ [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:26:10 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:26:21 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 03:27:57 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:08 fusss_ [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:30:04 -!- Guest18339 [w@rodney.ltd.pl] has left #lisp 03:30:24 weirdo [w@rodney.ltd.pl] has joined #lisp 03:30:42 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:30:50 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 03:36:13 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:36:27 Snamich [~Snamich@32.130.22.151] has joined #lisp 03:39:33 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 03:41:09 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:42:02 *fusss* would kill for a cl-magick example 03:42:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:45:15 bobrown` [~user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:27 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f72d672.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:36 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f72f6d6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:46:31 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:47:06 never mind, it hardcodes the UFFI module (i.e. shared library) into every FFI definition. holly global search and replace batman! 03:48:20 -!- bobrown` [~user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:09 -!- enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 03:49:27 bobrown` [~user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:58 -!- bobrown` [~user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:43 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-137-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:53:08 -!- rullie [~rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176149683.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:53:13 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 03:54:34 rullie [~rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151186.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:56:01 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@32.130.22.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:58:45 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:00:29 -!- benny [~benny@i577A836A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:00:51 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 04:00:56 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-81-42.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 04:12:20 Snamich [~Snamich@32.129.127.8] has joined #lisp 04:24:22 -!- rjschave [~rjschave@d149-67-38-179.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 04:25:43 anaphorics are kind of fun to play with, almost like unix pipes 04:25:48 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-83-6.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Offline for the evening.] 04:26:48 I knew I had seen something like the scheme => questions I asked this morning and sure enough; on lisp 04:26:58 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:28:06 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:28:46 I had been thinking of a way for a parser to pass the result to the next parser: (aand (parse-foo it) (parse-bar it) (parse-baz it)) 04:29:29 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hyhxchkgjezfcgqx] has joined #lisp 04:29:32 not very functional though, eh 04:30:20 clock [~rupxup@111.167.4.127] has joined #lisp 04:31:18 -!- clock [~rupxup@111.167.4.127] has left #lisp 04:36:18 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:36:58 well, there are macros that will transform it into proper function calling 04:43:52 jsnell: herep 04:43:53 gigamonkey, memo from fusss: in codequarterly; (defmethod session-cookie-name ((acceptor t)) "a better name than 'hunchentoot'") :-) 04:44:04 heh. 04:44:38 I use "PHPSESSID" 04:44:45 minion: logs 04:44:46 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 04:46:52 minion: memo for jsnell: running the threads.pure.lisp on a VPS with twice as much memory and twice as much swap as the other day (now 512M and 1G), I still get those failures with "mmap: Cannot allocate memory" 04:46:52 Remembered. I'll tell jsnell when he/she/it next speaks. 04:47:20 fusss: the stupid thing is I'm not even using those sessions at the moment. 04:47:24 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:33 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:38 gigamonkey: you have (start-session) somewhere in your code 04:48:22 minion: forget my memos 04:48:22 OK, I threw it out. 04:48:40 ok, don't know what would be going on then 04:50:39 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:52:04 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 04:53:24 -!- parolang2 [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:07 nunb [~nundan@59.178.190.181] has joined #lisp 05:04:56 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:05:57 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:06:42 Weird. Has anyone run threads.pure.lisp on a regular x86 box in recent times? 05:06:56 (I'd imagine all the cool kids have x86_64 boxen these days.) 05:07:22 ...and waste four bytes per pointer. 05:09:30 benny [~benny@i577A8AD5.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:10:47 ...and enjoy having a semi-reasonable number of registers. 05:11:01 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 05:11:46 ...and speak in incomplete sentences beginning with ellipses. 05:16:46 enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:17:13 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-206-139.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:17:46 rme: Modern x86 processors have huge internal register files. 05:18:12 If they're not architecturally visible, that doesn't really help me as a lisp implementer. 05:18:37 :-) 05:18:59 and don't forget larger fixnums! 05:24:09 Good morning! 05:27:17 finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.98] has joined #lisp 05:29:12 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8AD5.versanet.de] has left #lisp 05:31:31 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-124-230.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:35:13 -!- rullie [~rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151186.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:35:33 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 05:36:48 rullie [~rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176149389.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:37:36 -!- finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.98] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:37:51 j4k0b [~j4k0b@1503024517.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 05:41:14 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has joined #lisp 05:43:12 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-77-172.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 05:43:54 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440249.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 05:47:26 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 05:47:28 bytecolor pasted "defconstant" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95693 05:47:58 it's like the defconstant is being evaluated twice 05:48:04 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:48:23 it is, at the compile-time and at the load-time 05:48:39 hrm, so how doth one prevent that? 05:48:54 don't use a constant? 05:50:04 hrm, what about (eval-when ...) would that be of any use in this instance? This code is from on lisp, but I've put it in a package 05:50:28 and I'm still learning about packages btw ;) 05:50:43 eval-when would only confuse you more 05:50:49 ahaha 05:51:04 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:52:19 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:53:48 <_3b> why not just use T or NIL for the value there? 05:55:51 <_3b> also, put ++ around the name of constants, similar to ** around names of special vars 05:56:08 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:57:12 <_3b> (and maybe hold off on 'on lisp' until you know these things, so it doesn't teach you bad style :) 05:57:33 too late I'm on page 211! ;) 05:57:57 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 05:58:08 I _have_ to finish it now 06:02:30 I was actually thinking something along the lines of: (defconstant +unforced+ :unforced) 06:03:35 <_3b> yeah, that would work better than (gensym), if you have some good reason not to use T/NIL 06:04:25 well I was looking at nil, but wouldnt that create the same problem as checking for a value and it being bound to nil, thereby giving a false result? 06:04:38 <_3b> or you could just use :unforced directly instead of putting a constant in the middle 06:04:48 elisp has taught me terrible style. 06:05:03 _3b: nod 06:05:06 bytecolor: You could do something like (defvar *unforced-marker* (cons nil nil)). 06:05:10 -!- pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 06:05:19 <_3b> no, you just set forced to T when it is forced, so you can do (if (promise-forced x) ...) 06:06:19 <_3b> ah, nevermind, it uses it for other things than just the boolean 06:06:46 *_3b* should probably read the code better before giving advice :p 06:07:11 ahaha 06:07:42 *bytecolor* does not judge people who might have answers to questions ;) 06:07:50 <_3b> yeah, in that case :unforced would be a bad idea, since it is from a global namespace 06:08:25 <_3b> and gensym makes a bit more sense if it wasn't in some specific package originally 06:08:39 nod 06:08:45 the _intent_ was clear 06:09:06 <_3b> if it is in a specific package now, a symbol in that package (like 'unforced) might be reasonable 06:09:22 are beta-conversions in the lambda calc what inspired (accidentally?) dynamic binding? 06:09:28 err 06:09:31 reductions* 06:09:42 finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.98] has joined #lisp 06:10:02 jan247 [~jan247@120.28.96.76] has joined #lisp 06:10:02 -!- jan247 [~jan247@120.28.96.76] has quit [Changing host] 06:10:02 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 06:10:19 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:11:21 <_3b> or if you stay with gensym, check for it being bound and set it to the old value instead of gensym in that case 06:11:40 hrm 06:14:05 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 06:16:19 <_3b> (note that you don't want to put the whole defconstant inside a test, since then you lose the compile-time side effects, and the rest of the file wouldn't see the value during compilation) 06:19:36 -!- finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.98] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:19:54 (defconstant +unforced+ (if (boundp '+unforced+) +unforced+ (gensym))) 06:20:00 something along those lines? 06:21:18 hrm, nope 06:23:20 <_3b> how does that fail? 06:24:31 (let ((x 2)) (setq d (sed:delay (1+ x)))) => promise 06:25:04 I'm sure I'm doing something wrong... 06:25:41 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-10-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:26:01 is there a way to force a recompile to all files in a package? 06:26:33 I've been manually deleting *.fasl in the dir, just to make sure 06:26:39 <_3b> deleting the .fasl files and loading from a clean lisp is probably easiest 06:27:17 <_3b> i seem to remember discussion of making the ASDF feature for doing that usable, don't know if/when that happened though 06:27:38 re defconstant, see http://www.clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2005-August/006646.html 06:28:07 <_3b> (you can pass :force t to asdf, but it recompile everything it depends on too, which can be a problem sometimes) 06:28:17 bytecolor: you should probably use setf, not setq. 06:28:17 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-10-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:30:57 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-122-115.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:33:55 finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.98] has joined #lisp 06:34:59 Ralith: again, I'm just monkey-see-monkey-do ;) that's what graham is using: setq 06:35:23 nod, compiling all dependencies might be a bit much 06:35:44 bytecolor: then use setf. 06:37:55 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:39:07 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-137-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:10 -!- finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.98] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:42:56 splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:42:58 morning 06:43:05 mornin 06:46:51 finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.98] has joined #lisp 06:47:25 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:50:07 hi 06:50:19 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@32.129.127.8] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 06:50:36 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:51:47 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 06:55:09 -!- finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.98] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:55:30 (format t "~S ~S~%" (promise-forced x) +unforced+) => #:G0 #:G0 06:55:33 (eq (promise-forced x) +unforced+) => nil 06:56:33 and the rabbit hole gets deeper, so eq is too strict for this instance, eh? 06:58:02 freakrobot [~freakrobo@124.160.46.14] has joined #lisp 06:58:48 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 06:59:21 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 06:59:27 clhs #: 06:59:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhe.htm 06:59:33 bytecolor: ^ 07:00:42 necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:44 bytecolor: the only equality predicates that will return t for uninterned symbols are string= and string-equal, IIRC.. and that's probably not what you want at all. 07:02:41 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:03:13 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:04:46 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:05:59 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.83.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:06 tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:23 -!- dys` is now known as dys 07:16:08 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:16:23 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:17:35 <_3b> they should be the same uninterned symbol though, so EQ should be OK here 07:18:06 <_3b> bytecolor: what does the current code look like? 07:18:50 well, I just hacke the this out of it... undo... 07:21:18 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.70] has joined #lisp 07:21:22 bytecolor annotated #95693 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95693#1 07:22:38 <_3b> possibly something using DELAY didn't get recompiled at some point? 07:23:23 _3b: if I comment out the in-package and just load it into slime, it works 07:23:45 if I (require :seds-utils), fubar 07:23:49 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-95-108.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:24:32 <_3b> bytecolor: paste an example of you loading it and it not working, don't just say 'fubar' :p 07:24:42 hehe 07:25:07 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-60-98.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:27:02 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:06 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:48 racecondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 07:31:04 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:13 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:31:31 oconnore_ [~oconnore@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:56 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.190.181] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:35:13 bytecolor pasted "delay session" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95697 07:36:18 +unforced+ and promise are currently not exported (but it didnt seem like it mattered) 07:36:34 maus [~maus@222.253.96.75] has joined #lisp 07:36:51 Good afternoon! 07:38:17 elo maus 07:38:43 Hi bytecolor! 07:39:37 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:40:30 hrm, guess that should have been an annotation, eh 07:41:25 that's why man invented tabs in a browser ;) 07:41:37 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 07:42:13 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:31 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:16 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:47:27 vng [~vng@123.20.58.66] has joined #lisp 07:49:00 <_3b> bytecolor: hmm, not sure what is wrong there 07:50:10 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:52:12 finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.98] has joined #lisp 07:53:54 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:54:40 nod, probably have to see the whole thing. Not a problem. I'll figure it out eventually. Just need to write more code ;) 07:55:13 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 07:55:59 I probably did jump into packages too soon, but I just don't like putting everything in one giant file. 07:57:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:57:13 <_3b> no, seems to be something about uninterned symbols and compilation that i'm misunderstanding 07:58:33 hrm, I just tried with asdf:load-op and now the gensym's are different in the format statement 08:02:58 -!- jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:35 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-92-114.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:05:03 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-10-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:06:15 -!- rullie [~rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176149389.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:06:56 if I set +unforced+ to :unforced, everthing is fine. I think I'll just leave it at that for now 08:07:34 <_3b> use '+unforced+ instead, at least then people would have to make an effort to use it accidentally 08:07:46 ah 08:07:50 rullie [~rullie@bas4-toronto47-1279405709.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:09:03 nod, that works fine 08:09:58 mega1 [~quassel@53d828c5.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:10:56 -!- finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.98] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:11:55 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:13:12 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:38 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 08:17:13 Trystam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:57 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:18:58 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:22:01 -!- gruseom 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[~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 08:50:01 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:53:39 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:55:01 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:55:08 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:10 Hun [~hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:08 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:59:11 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:59:17 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:20 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 09:03:24 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:03:45 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 09:05:37 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-102-114.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:07:48 -!- vng [~vng@123.20.58.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:12:40 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-137-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:13:01 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:41 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:42 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:20:33 tcr [~tcr@85-127-204-224.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 09:22:09 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-024-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:27:42 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 09:27:53 hello 09:31:31 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 09:32:03 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:35:24 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:35:43 hello fe[nl]ix 09:37:05 hi beach 09:44:07 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-102-114.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:47 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:46:15 -!- gavino_himself [~gschuette@cpe-76-172-28-85.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:41 *splittist* hits refresh on WienLispLive.tv 09:47:43 still nothing! 09:49:26 morning 09:50:09 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:50:50 splittist: Funny tidbit: fe[nl]ix and me happened to choose an apartment in vienna whose owner is a Common Lisper 09:53:11 We're everywhere! 09:53:17 How's the sachertorte? 09:54:18 No idea, not my kind of thing anyway 09:54:41 -!- maus [~maus@222.253.96.75] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:56:06 -!- finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.98] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:08:09 -!- tcr [~tcr@85-127-204-224.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:10:58 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:11:16 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 10:11:32 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:11:35 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:45 Yuuhi [benni@p5483F8AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:41 -!- weirdo [w@rodney.ltd.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:39:35 weirdo [~sthalik@mail.takeda.tk] has joined #lisp 10:42:06 mETALdUST_ [~hi@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:06 -!- MetalDust [~hi@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:27 -!- mETALdUST_ [~hi@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:43:48 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 10:44:27 jan247 [~jan247@120.28.96.76] has joined #lisp 10:44:27 -!- jan247 [~jan247@120.28.96.76] has quit [Changing host] 10:44:27 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 10:46:52 paines [~Anes@2001:6f8:1c00:7c::2] has joined #lisp 10:47:00 hi 10:49:05 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-102-114.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:50:01 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:51:51 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 10:53:07 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-43-82-249-172-85.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:56:33 borism [~boris@213-35-235-6-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 11:00:40 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 11:01:45 can anyone assist me with installing / setting up lispbuilder-sdl-mixer ? i am getting compile errors. the last error i see is: Symbol "LIBRARY-VERSION" not found in the LISPBUILDER-SDL package. 11:04:01 vng [~vng@123.20.58.66] has joined #lisp 11:04:56 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has joined #lisp 11:05:02 finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.250] has joined #lisp 11:05:04 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.67.26.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:06:09 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-26-179.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:13 Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-35-82-250-253-135.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:18 -!- finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.250] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:12:21 milanj [~milan@211.22.24.217.adsl2.dyn.beograd.com] has joined #lisp 11:12:55 I just installed that a couple days ago, hrm 11:13:46 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 11:15:33 -!- tltstc` [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc`] 11:15:49 I think I grabbed the latest svn off code.google though 11:16:28 paines: is this what you grabbed: http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/source/checkout 11:16:54 or one of the .tar.gz's 11:17:42 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:49 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:18:11 bytecolor, okay. i will try that 11:18:13 thank you 11:19:37 paines: I manually created all the symlinks, I have no idea how it works otherwise. I mean there are asdf packages on the download page, but . I could not get all the examples to run and I have the entire api installed. 11:20:10 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:20:15 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:07 bytecolor, i will try it. 11:21:10 I'm kind of anal about where files go on my box, so I generally do everything manually 11:21:13 paines: ok 11:21:20 sadly, i am a total newbie to this stuff 11:21:23 we will see 11:21:28 anyway, thank you very much 11:23:50 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:26:35 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:26:39 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:15 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:49 finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.250] has joined #lisp 11:35:45 bytecolor, works 11:35:49 :-D 11:36:11 paines: cool, dontcha love it when a plan come together 11:36:22 Totally Hannibal 11:36:24 ;-) 11:36:41 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:39:24 if you run the examples you'll probaly find that some are still bork (but that's the price of grabbing the latest, constant flux) 11:39:48 right, but most are working 11:40:00 i just found one which isn't working 11:44:46 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-77-172.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:46:45 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:47:54 -!- finalprefix [~finalpref@59.164.41.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:48:06 athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:11 hi 11:48:32 http://paste.lisp.org/+21UK 11:48:51 Here is output of m-x slime with sbcl 11:49:33 sbcl says "encoding error on stream ...". Can you help? 11:50:21 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:50:56 maybe it's problem with latin symbols, but where are they may be? 11:51:44 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 11:52:24 I have no idea what encoding that is though 11:54:03 -!- vng [~vng@123.20.58.66] has left #lisp 11:54:27 utf-8 possibly 11:56:39 <_3b> no, that is failing to encode a character as latin-1, #\CYRILLIC_CAPITAL_LETTER_PE specifically if i read it right 11:56:41 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:03 athlon` [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:21 so why is Swank report for error with encoding? What relation it have to encoding? 11:58:28 Where is that symbol? 11:59:43 <_3b> might work better if you use utf-8 for slime, (set-language-environment "UTF-8") and (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) in .emacs 12:00:47 -!- athlon` [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 12:01:01 -!- athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:01:46 I think that's actually what I did, and I've had none? less? encoding errors 12:01:52 Hello, I have some problem with http-request, Is it possible force not closing stream (other than :close)? I have :close nil, but server close my stream... 12:02:46 athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:49 (set-language-environment "UTF-8") 12:02:49 (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) 12:02:54 It's work/ 12:03:05 Thanks alot. 12:03:18 ;; Swank started at port: 4193. 12:03:32 -!- athlon [~user@193-196-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 12:03:35 mrSpec pasted "log in" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95710 12:03:49 *_3b* is guessing the character it couldn't encode came from localized 'c:/Program Files' or something like that 12:04:18 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:08:11 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 12:09:24 I think unicode is difficult to grok because it's backwards compatible. You don't want to waste 1 or 3 bytes to encode a #\? but there are far more characters than ASCII. 12:12:44 bytecolor: that's UTF-8 12:12:55 and UTF-8 isn't that bad, try UTF-1 12:13:12 Quick question: Is there a protocol in lisp for cloning objects? I'm thinking of Java's clone() function. I mean, I can write a copy-foo defun, but I thought I should check there's not some generic function that would be clean to override. 12:13:53 p_l: I take it that UTF-1 uses 1 bit for the first 1 character and a 1 in the high order bit means a longer char? :-) 12:14:48 rswarbrick: no, it wasn't named for the length of encoding - it was also based around 8-bit data 12:14:50 rswarbrick: that's binary, brilliant! ;) 12:15:12 rswarbrick: the name was such because it was simply the "first" encoding 12:15:22 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 12:15:38 then Bell Labs called and dropped their project and everyone gave up on UTF-1 12:15:51 (great oversimplification, but works) 12:15:54 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:16:26 p_l: Ah, sorry! I assumed you meant UTF16 and had done a typo. I'll go and look up UTF-1 now! :-) 12:17:24 (oh, anyone know about the clone question?) 12:17:27 rswarbrick: UTF-1 had issues with broken streams etc. - it didn't work well if you for example started reading in the middle of a character 12:17:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-26-179.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:18:11 rswarbrick: there's some deep-copy package, I think, but I don't think there's an official way for cloning objects 12:18:39 cmm [~cmm@109.67.26.179] has joined #lisp 12:18:57 Cool, thanks for saying - I just didn't want to miss something obvious in the hyperspec or something! 12:20:26 rswarbrick: you can of course programatically investigate a lot of data structures and copy them without the craziness of Java's Reflection API :D 12:21:29 :-) Yeah, I don't really know java: I just learnt some for teaching some course to 1st years this year... 12:21:47 (and noticed clone) 12:24:17 -!- freakrobot [~freakrobo@124.160.46.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:25:34 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32:08 Gabanna [~Gabanna@92.80.225.189] has joined #lisp 12:32:24 -!- Gabanna [~Gabanna@92.80.225.189] has quit [Client Quit] 12:32:52 jdz [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has joined #lisp 12:32:58 mrbug [~user@cpe-67-241-10-210.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:10 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:40:33 bew [~bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:24 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:10 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:46:12 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 12:47:56 oconnore_ [~oconnore@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:53 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-92-114.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:53:15 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:56:23 -!- bew [~bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: bew] 12:56:31 fiveop [~fiveop@g229144217.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:59:08 -!- jdz [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:01:09 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100214235838]] 13:04:14 jdz [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has joined #lisp 13:07:26 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:37 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:10:26 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1cb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:11:10 maacl [~mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:13:31 leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:16:16 slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:22 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:20:55 Can slime-documentation also show the function arguments? 13:21:41 bew [~bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:50 -!- bew [~bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:23:08 kwinz3 [kwinz@securewlan-237-196.pns.univie.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:23:45 -!- rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:23:49 rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:24:36 -!- jdz [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:46 -!- rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 13:25:49 rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:26:36 jmbr [~jmbr@41.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:30:37 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:08 Axius [~hi@109.97.36.212] has joined #lisp 13:40:50 -!- kwinz3 [kwinz@securewlan-237-196.pns.univie.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:43:26 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1242356783.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:45:29 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@41.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:48:02 -!- Axius [~hi@109.97.36.212] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:48:06 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:54 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:54:26 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 13:56:01 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 13:56:03 jdz [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has joined #lisp 13:57:16 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-196.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:45 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:00:07 Pepe_ [~ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:14 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 14:10:22 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440249.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:11:34 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:12:35 -!- jdz [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:23 hello 14:17:04 hello 14:19:18 can anyone who's awake list books that you wish your (junior) colleagues had read? (I'm in a position to recommend the purchase of computing books for our University Library) 14:20:38 alternatively, what books would you expect your new hires to at least know the existence of? 14:20:53 for some reason "MINT" occured to me 14:21:06 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [K-Lined] 14:22:53 attila_lendvai [~ati@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:22:54 jdz [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has joined #lisp 14:23:21 (ACM portal seems to be down or I'd give an URL) 14:24:16 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hyhxchkgjezfcgqx] has left #lisp 14:24:26 tcr [~tcr@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:26:21 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-150-14.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:27:38 any idea where to download dsl-in-lisp.mov? 14:30:24 (OTOH Stanford seems to have the text for free if you google "hendry MINT software tools godfrey") 14:30:50 pix4 [~pixel@212.60.130.33] has joined #lisp 14:31:18 jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-237-77.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:28 -!- milanj [~milan@211.22.24.217.adsl2.dyn.beograd.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:16 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:43 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 14:34:56 is it someones presentation leo2007? 14:36:25 Lycurgus: I found it mentioned in cliki but the link is no longer working. 14:36:27 Krystof: "Purely Functional Data Structures" by Chris Okasaki 14:36:40 Lycurgus: http://www.cliki.net/Lisp%20Videos 14:36:55 brill [~brill@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:38:54 most of the stuff on that page is 5 years or older, would expect a lot of breakage of links 14:39:06 Asgeir [~asgeir@tri59-1-82-233-201-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:16 ok 14:39:45 I was hoping that someone saved that video on their computer. 14:39:57 dsl is dsl though 14:40:16 klo1 [~klo1@h-35-173.A254.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:40:26 doubt there are any closely held sekrits in the vid 14:40:36 yo lispers. If *a* is a bidimensionnal array, is there a simple way to get the nth line of my array ? 14:41:04 <_3b> Asgeir: if you only want lines, you can use a displaced array 14:41:46 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:41:49 hum 14:42:20 I want to be still able to get the (n,m) element of my array 14:42:57 <_3b> right, the original array is still there for 2d access 14:43:43 hum. so with a static array, I cant get a whole line without a (loop for i = 0 to length collect (aref *a* n i)) ? 14:43:57 (or the do equivalent) 14:44:11 *_3b* points at the bit a few lines up about using a displaced array 14:44:49 hum but displaced arrays are slowest than static array, aren't they ? 14:44:58 <_3b> probably 14:45:13 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-142-222.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:16 G'morning all. 14:45:19 <_3b> if you need lots of accesses per line relative to length, copying to a new array might be better 14:45:38 _3b nonsense 14:45:52 <_3b> Younder: probably 14:46:00 damnit 14:46:27 You know, it's too bad you can't ask for the cache fill to have a stride to it. "I'd like to preload an eight-octet block every 128 octets, starting at this memory address." 14:46:28 displacement is just a ponter into the heap. ad new array head and a existing body. 14:46:55 <_3b> Younder: and an extra pointer deref, and maybe a fallback to a slow path somewhere, etc 14:47:03 I just wanted to do a (every #'mypred (array-line *a* 4)) :( 14:47:26 so it's not a simple-vector 14:47:49 _3b, no deref 14:48:36 -!- klo1 [~klo1@h-35-173.A254.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:49:03 <_3b> Asgeir: i'd probably just use a loop there, wrap in a function if you use it enough to get repetitive 14:49:11 _3b, anyhow instructions are piplined, but the most expensive thing you can do is move memory around 14:49:19 thanks :D 14:49:21 ... Is gmane being slow/down for anyone else? 14:49:46 pyr0 [~pyr0@93-97-51-195.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:50:25 <_3b> nyef: seems so from here 14:52:29 Damn. I -knew- I should have resubscribed to sbcl-devel. 14:52:43 manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8D866.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:49 We're still in code-freeze, right? 14:52:57 tobetchi [~tobetchi@218-40-236-19.ppp.bbiq.jp] has joined #lisp 14:53:14 qamikaz [~alper@85.107.70.129] has joined #lisp 14:53:15 <_3b> looks like it 14:53:28 Okay, good enough. 14:56:08 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 14:57:20 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@218-40-236-19.ppp.bbiq.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:09 <_3b> no sign of a release commit in cvs if nothing else 14:58:25 Fair enough. 14:58:57 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:00:18 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.99.158] has joined #lisp 15:00:22 Is there a cl package providing some common uitility macros or functions, like with-gensyms? 15:00:44 Several... though with-gensyms is kindof meh. 15:00:49 <_3b> minion: tell leo2007 about alexandria 15:00:50 leo2007: please look at alexandria: Alexandria is a collection of portable public domain utilities. http://www.cliki.net/alexandria 15:03:23 oh, what's the lispest way to do a (loop for i = 0 to 4 collect (f i)) ? I use (let ((result nil)) (dotimes (i 5) (push (f i) result)) result), but it's not the nicest way I think 15:03:41 <_3b> Asgeir: i'd use the LOOP 15:03:47 :d 15:03:48 I'd use the loop as well. 15:04:04 Actually, no, I'd possibly loop for i below 5. 15:04:23 <_3b> yeah, /a/ LOOP might have been more accurate :) 15:04:53 damn 15:05:04 I'm still of the belief that the complete lack of use of LOOP in SBCL's Python is non-optimal. 15:05:11 <_3b> Asgeir: did you forget to reverse the list in your dotimes version? 15:05:18 I can read a LOOP far better than I can a COLLECT or a DO. 15:05:26 no, _3b 15:05:41 _3b: thanks. 15:05:49 oh yes 15:05:54 but order isn't important 15:05:55 Asgeir: also, the LOOP version is obviously readable, while the other one isn't... 15:05:59 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:06:01 ok, thanks a lot :D 15:06:06 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-123-60.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:36 Actually, if you want "lispier", map over (loop for i below 5 collect i), and use some cute name for the loop ("iota" was it?), but expect people to ask why you didn't just use a loop in the first place. 15:06:42 the reason I don't like LOOP in sbcl code is because (a) it's very easy to write a non-standards-compliant loop form, (b) implementations vary wildly on their interpretations of non-standard loop forms, (c) implementations also differ on interpretations of standard loop forms 15:06:43 <_3b> Asgeir: in a language designed more for functional programming, you might use something like map with a generator 15:06:47 It seems on-lisp provides the most extensive coverage of macro. I am thinking of printing it. 15:07:04 once I'm out of reach of other implementations, I use loop as much as the next person 15:07:22 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757ac5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:24 oh 15:07:27 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.99.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:07:28 Krystof: Fair enough. And you'll note that I'm not fighting the prevailing style particularly hard. 15:07:33 map with generator, interesting 15:08:27 <_3b> Asgeir: common lisp isn't really designed that way, so you end up with what nyef suggested, and the result he suggested as well :) 15:08:34 ok 15:08:37 If I type :kw in another package in REPL, is that interned in keyword package? 15:08:38 thus I'll use loop :D 15:08:58 So, in a fit of complete stupidity, I've managed to forget the SBCL x86 stack frame layout for the calling convention. 15:10:25 Oh well, either this works or it doesn't, and if it at least compiles it'll be slammable until I get it right. 15:10:56 leo2007: yes 15:11:13 *_3b* notes that the oldest message in sbcl-devel archives on sourceforge will be 10 years old in a day or 2 15:11:16 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8D866.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 15:11:36 *_3b* also notes that sourceforge archive is even less usable than usual 15:11:44 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:11:52 <_3b> nyef: gmane is back up though 15:12:01 Yeah, was just checking that. 15:12:02 _3b: we should have a party! 15:12:07 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 15:12:13 Seems slow to me still, though. 15:13:36 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 15:16:17 <_3b> Krystof: not sure the anniversary of moving to sourceforge is really something to celebrate :p 15:16:49 <_3b> at least assuming that is why that is the first message they have, and not that they lost older ones or something 15:17:42 sebyte [~sebyte@213.229.74.8] has joined #lisp 15:18:01 <_3b> ah, actually i guess it was actually responding to something off list, so not evidence either way 15:19:15 Krystof: Modulo the syntax problems on the DO loop, does paste 95661 look good for commit early 1.0.36? And do you know of a more principled way to obtain the ordering required? 15:19:20 minion: paste 95661? 15:19:20 Paste number 95661: "Does this look good for lp#379472? (not yet tested)" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/95661 15:20:45 oo, I'm sorry, I have no idea. I mean, it's fine to commit it early in the next cycle; I have absolutely no idea whether it should work 15:21:27 Mmm... I know that it works for the one test-case we have, but I don't know how reliable the compiler is about packing the UWPs the wrong way aruond right now. 15:21:48 <_3b> nyef: is there a non #+win32 part that would also do something with those tn? 15:21:51 And I don't really know -why- it packs them the wrong way around, other than it might have something to do with the DFO pass. 15:22:19 _3b: Yes, the bit that starts "Pack any leftover normal TNs." at the bottom of the patch. 15:22:45 It basically does the exact same thing, but without the SC restriction, and without reversing the order. 15:22:57 <_3b> so no problem with doing it twice? 15:23:12 There's a limiter on a TN-OFFSET not having been set. 15:23:29 If there's no TN-OFFSET, the TN hasn't been packed. If there is a TN-OFFSET, the TN has been packed. 15:23:31 <_3b> ah, ok 15:23:54 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Peace...] 15:24:14 -!- pyr0 [~pyr0@93-97-51-195.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:24 hi all, i've written a macro that wraps its body with a couple of lexical variables that can then be used in the body. my question is this - if i want to make the macro resuable, i.e., define it in a library package and export it, must I also export the symbols representing the lexical variables? 15:25:05 Or is there another way? 15:25:11 So, I can pick out the catch-blocks that are used for UWPs by looking at the VOP-INFO for the VOP for the TN-REF for the first reader of the TN, but I'm not sure what I can do from there. 15:25:26 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-latkgoryvvidplnv] has joined #lisp 15:25:33 sebyte: you should let the user of the macro provide the names of variables 15:25:35 <_3b> sebyte: depending on what you are doing, specifying the names of the variables as arguments to the macro might be better 15:25:45 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:26:03 sebyte: If the lexical variables are only used in code generated by the macro, and not user code supplied to the macro, then they shouldn't need exporting. Otherwise, yes, export them. 15:26:38 But _3b also has the right of it, the typical thing is to have the user of the macro pass any lexicals they need to have bound as parameters in the first place. 15:26:38 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:06 <_3b> sebyte: consider for example the problem of using the macro within the body of an outer call to the macro 15:27:46 Whee... Another Unexpected Success on the test suite. 15:28:56 hmm, lots to think about.. exporting the lexical variables isn't a big problem (there aren't too many of them) but what about the reverse situation, where the user passes a symbol from the using package to the macro? 15:29:36 Maybe you should just use a hygenic macro system instead? :-) 15:29:44 <_3b> sebyte: if the user supplies the name, then they are responsible for it, so you macro/package doesn't need to care about it 15:31:01 pyr0 [~pyr0@93-97-51-195.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:31:45 thanks all, i need to think more about this 15:32:03 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:08 <_3b> sebyte: at the point the macro sees the symbol, it has already been READ, so all package stuff has already been resolved 15:32:23 <_3b> (in the user supplied symbol case) 15:32:48 parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:04 _3b: noted 15:34:22 -!- brill [~brill@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:35:41 slash_ [~Unknown@p4FF0AE5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:48 -!- qamikaz [~alper@85.107.70.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:23 Paraselene [~Not@79-67-146-129.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 15:38:05 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:38:17 bew [~bew@host217-39-9-233.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 15:39:08 -!- bew [~bew@host217-39-9-233.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:40:07 -!- racecondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:34 Hello all, has anyone here implemented a Macro that takes a list as an argument in the same fassion as "dolist". I've looked at the source for "dolist" and it uses a function that I can't seem to get access to "constant-form-value". 15:44:39 racecondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 15:44:50 -!- racecondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has left #lisp 15:45:31 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 15:45:42 marioxcc [~user@201.132.83.180] has joined #lisp 15:45:43 pyr0: try macroexpanding instead. 15:47:03 Xech: That doesn't really help because I want to right a Macro of my own that accepts a list of any type e.g. (list 1 2 3), '(1 2 3), (1 2 3). 15:47:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: have a nice weekend, folks.] 15:47:36 dolist seems to handle all of these except maybe (1 2 3) I haven't actually tested that. 15:47:58 pyr0: dolist normally evaluates its list argument, and (1 2 3) can't be evaluated. 15:48:54 it doesn't call "eval" at any time though, and I've heard calling "eval" in a macro is a bad idea. 15:49:06 <_3b> pyr0: is the DOLIST at http://homepage1.nifty.com/bmonkey/lisp/sacla/html/lisp/do.lisp.html any more reasable? 15:49:24 <_3b> *readable 15:51:17 Thanks _3b, I was looking at the sbcl dolist implementation. I'll try get my head around the one you have just sent :) 15:52:13 pyr0: it is evaluated by expanding into code with the desired evaluation properties at runtime 15:52:24 pyr0: not by evaluating it at macroexpansion time 15:53:34 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:54:39 hmmmm the first thing I tried was what the "dolist" _3b is doing: (let ((,list ,list-form) 15:55:01 but for some reason that had a fit on me but I forget why 15:58:11 well blow me down, it works now. I'm SURE that was the first thing I tried. I must have been mistaken. 16:01:38 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-150-14.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:19 16:03:52 Oh I remember my problem now, I want to use an element from the list to build the code that is returned by the Macro. That is I want to list to be evaluated at the Macro leel. 16:04:01 *level 16:04:15 <_3b> are you sure the list exists when the macro is expanded? 16:04:39 <_3b> in other words, you will never want to pass a variable containing the list, or get the list from the results of a function call, etc 16:05:25 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:05:54 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:05:54 that's the thing, what I want is for the Macro to treat the list argument the same way that a function would treat it. 16:06:06 <_3b> then you don't want a macro 16:06:23 <_3b> or you haven't thought things out very well 16:06:31 I think you could be right 16:06:35 <_3b> what happens if i do (your-macro (read)) for example 16:07:01 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:02 <_3b> the list doesn't exist until you run the results... there is no way the macro could do anything with the components of the list at compile time 16:07:23 <_3b> (unless it actually calls READ, and you type in a list at compile time i guess) 16:07:35 <_3b> but that isn't what a function would do 16:08:25 I think maybe I'm trying to do something that is unecisary. My idea was to use the Macro to call one of a list of functions that all have ery similar names. 16:09:17 e.g. (my-macro (list 1 2 3)) would expand to (my-func-1) 16:09:43 and (my-macro (list 2 3 4)) would expand to (my-func-2) 16:10:45 <_3b> (defun my-macro (l) (apply (elt '(my-func-1 my-func-2) (car l)) (cdr l))) ? 16:11:04 <_3b> (suuming you intended the rest of the lists to be args and not just ignored) 16:11:08 <_3b> (assuming 16:12:27 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066171.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 16:12:40 <_3b> oops, i indexed wrong... s/(car l)/(1- (car l))/ 16:13:01 that's kind of it but I should have been more specific: (my-macro (list "one" "two" "three")) would expand to (my-func-one) 16:13:24 I'm working with a list of strings 16:13:33 <_3b> where does the list of strings come from? 16:13:36 -!- Asgeir [~asgeir@tri59-1-82-233-201-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: mi tawa!] 16:14:12 pyr0: what about (my-macro some-list) or (my-macro (read)) ? 16:14:15 and want to take the first element in the list convert a concat of it and the start of the function name into a symbol then return that from the macro. 16:14:55 pyr0: why macro? why not a function? 16:14:58 pyr0: if your list is known at compilation time, then there's no point in typing (list ...), just (...) will do. 16:14:58 <_3b> same idea as my example works there too, just make a hash table mapping strings to function names and use that instead of the list indexed by numbers 16:15:09 I'll be passing it in as a list of strings. But you're right that I shouldn't assume it will always be there. 16:15:47 Funny thing is right at the beginning I used a hashtable of function pointers :) 16:15:52 pyr0: you may. That's the question! 16:16:05 I just thought a Macro would reduce the code down a lot :) 16:16:08 jdz_ [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has joined #lisp 16:16:11 Macros are to process code or data at compilation time. 16:16:35 If you have code or data at run-time, then you cannot use macros to process it. 16:16:59 So the question is where and WHEN do these strings come from? 16:17:01 But you can use macros to produce the code to process your run-time code or data. 16:17:13 Unless you want to use macroexpand 16:17:29 though Macros are called at runtime/ 16:17:31 ? 16:17:43 Yes, but this is silly. You better put that code in a function and call that function from your macro for compilation-time processing and directly for run-time processing. 16:17:50 so don't they expaand to code that will manipulate runtime data? 16:18:05 pyr0: no, macros are used by the compiler at compilation time. 16:18:15 pyro: At compile-time, but in lisp system compile-time can be part of run-time. 16:18:17 pyr0: indeed, they don't manipulate runtime data. 16:18:34 e.g., if you're using the repl, then what you type is compiled. 16:18:35 pyr0: but they can generate code that WILL manipulate runtime data. 16:18:39 -!- parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:39 jdz__ [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has joined #lisp 16:18:52 *nyef* 's brain melts from staring at NLX-INFO and CLEANUP structure definitions. 16:19:09 -!- jdz [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:19:12 -!- jdz__ is now known as jdz 16:19:19 ah so you can instantiate datatypes within a Macro but they only live in compile time space. The macro cannot do anything to ny datatypes that live in runtime space. 16:19:22 pyr0: so, when are these strings known? 16:19:38 runtime 16:20:12 correct. 16:20:40 now, if a function is called from a macro it is running in compile time space so it too cannot manipulate runtime data correct 16:20:54 Correct. 16:21:10 cool thanks, that does clear things up for me :) 16:21:26 ok I am going to rethink my implementation. 16:21:44 you guys have been a huge help, thanks again :) 16:21:58 -!- jdz_ [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:22:21 mega1 [~quassel@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 16:23:30 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:24:24 -!- pyr0 [~pyr0@93-97-51-195.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:24:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:25:19 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:26:43 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:42 ... Why does SBCL use package-data.lisp-expr instead of a handful of DEFPACKAGE forms? 16:30:01 Would it be "better" in some sense to have a set of DEFPACKAGE forms as the canonical package definition, and to parse them for whatever non-standard uses we have? 16:32:17 b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 16:38:10 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-219-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:05 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-latkgoryvvidplnv] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:43:06 qamikaz [~alper@85.107.70.129] has joined #lisp 16:46:08 jdz_ [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has joined #lisp 16:46:21 I don't think there are that non-standard uses, there just some uses which DEFPACKAGE does not (but the functional package layer does) support 16:46:28 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483F8AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:48:08 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 16:48:37 nyef: package-data.lisp-expr was originally there to work around bootstrapping problems. I don't know if the problems have been sufficiently resolved to let us start using DEFPACKAGE 16:49:07 froydnj: Well, I was more thinking that we could READ the DEFPACKAGE forms and manipulate them from there if necessary. 16:49:34 -!- jdz [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:49:35 nyef: ooo, that'd be nice too 16:50:05 I'm not sure that there are any bootstrapping problems 16:50:16 we use the host's packages throughout, don't we 16:50:33 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:06 oh, but when you do stuff, look out for the bit with the comment "don't watch" in defun-load-or-cload-xcompiler.lisp 16:51:14 Krystof: the term you are looking for is "slush" 16:51:18 -!- jdz_ [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:51:59 yeah :-) 16:53:11 Krystof: did I answer your question about copyrights and CQ sufficiently? 16:53:19 It's really too bad that the standard doesn't allow hooking the reader to customize the package-name -> package mapping. :-/ 16:53:40 Or even the string -> symbol mapping. 16:53:50 I'm less bothered about that, TBH. 16:53:51 define-intern-macro FTW! 16:54:05 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:54:13 Hello nikodemus. 16:54:14 o/ 16:54:24 It's good to see that you're still alive. 16:54:26 i take it we thawed? 16:54:41 (been a bit burned out, getting better) 16:54:53 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.83.180] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:54:59 Ahh. 16:55:44 jdz_ [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has joined #lisp 16:56:09 Anyone have any idea why I can't pass the threads.pure.lisp tests in 1.0.35 on a VPS with half a gig of RAM? 16:56:19 I get errors from mmap about not being able to allocate. 16:57:16 gigamonkey: I'd guess either being badly overcommitted even with half a gig, running out of address space, or security settings. Or maybe that you're running on a VPS and not a real system. 16:57:43 lispm [~joswig@e177151002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:02 it's almost certainly complaining about not being able to allocate stacks for new threads 16:58:14 Yuuhi [benni@p5483F8AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:22 was the freeze cancelled, or what? 16:58:36 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:58:46 So if it's the VPS vs a real system, is it something I need to worry about actually running a web server on the same VPS? 16:59:15 prolly not: the stress tests are a bit extreme in the number of threads spawned 16:59:29 Presumably it's the number of concurrent threads that matters, right? 16:59:51 So hunchentoot spawning a new thread for each connection will be okay as long as the connections are short lived. 16:59:55 nikodemus: I haven't heard anything about the freeze being cancelled, but I'm also not able to access sbcl-devel archives via my usual methods so I might have missed the announcement. 17:00:46 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.99.158] has joined #lisp 17:00:48 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.99.158] has left #lisp 17:01:23 Most browser use stay-alive so your theads live on for a minute or so after you have closed the site 17:01:28 ok, it's still on 17:01:54 ... Lovely. "(eq 'sb!vm::set-unwind-protect (vop-info-name (vop-info (tn-ref-vop (tn-reads tn)))))". 17:01:54 do a netstat --tcp to see for yourself 17:02:20 bbl 17:02:21 Younder: Doesn't matter if the -server- closes the socket, though. 17:02:26 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:31 -!- jdz_ [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:13 -!- paines [~Anes@2001:6f8:1c00:7c::2] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:03:36 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:05 nyef, no the server is free to ignore the http 1.1 protocol 17:07:18 Younder: This -is- the server case. 17:07:36 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:41 Younder: Hence, if the server closes the sockets, they won't be around long on the server. 17:09:23 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066171.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:10:16 gigamonkey: I saw the response about having distribution rights. Obviously, that goes without saying 17:10:32 I might have missed (or not yet read, the scrollback will be at work) any more than that 17:13:10 plage [~user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 17:13:16 Good evening! 17:13:40 Free Wifi at the Bordeaux airport. This shows that Bordeaux is as civilized as Vietnam. 17:14:08 Krystof: that was about it, I think. Do you have a specific concern? 17:14:43 no, other than if you can offer that why can't Springer or the IEEE? :-) 17:15:14 What are their terms? 17:15:34 gigamonkey: awful 17:16:24 you transfer copyight to them, you are not allowed to do anything else with this stuff, except possibly a copy in an institutional repository (with a 3-paragraph copyright statement) and re-use in teaching or presentation materials (with attribution and copyright notices) 17:17:00 of course, as I said to splittist, everyone ignores those rules 17:17:00 Of course this is now, when I'm really more of an author at heart. Check back in a while--assuming CQ stays a going concern--I I'll probably have developed a proper editor/publisher's black heart. 17:17:21 do you read phdcomics? 17:17:36 Nope. (Rings a bell; maybe I saw it once.0 17:17:55 http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1199 17:18:00 http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1200 17:18:21 http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1201 17:18:21 I guess it's a question of how much they pay, either in cash or reputational benefit. 17:19:00 and http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1208 17:19:26 plage: that definitely shows that Bordeaux is more civilized than Charles de Gaulle 17:20:04 p_l: Indeed! 17:21:08 gigamonkey: "in cash", hahaha 17:21:09 dabd [~dabd@a85-139-97-227.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:21:28 if I write a paper longer than 10 pages for the IEEE, _I_ have to pay 17:21:42 p_l: I suspect it's a mistake though, because when I try to access a web site, I get an error message saying it can't find the airport server. ssh works fine though. 17:21:57 plage: the one at CDG is completely bonkers 17:21:58 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:13 I managed to access google without paying, but only google.pl, not google.com 17:22:38 I can get to google, but nothing else it seems. 17:23:00 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:01 Though, I could use a web browser over ssh if I really wanted to. 17:23:13 Krystof: right. But someone is paying you to be a scientist. It's not like your research is funded by your publishing royalties. 17:23:33 Which is not to say that the whole science journal thing isn't as messed up as those comics portray. 17:23:42 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 17:24:10 gigamonkey: when we ran a science journal, we tried as much as possible to pay royalties for articles. 17:24:13 I seem to recall seeing something recently (maybe on Language Log) about how the big-name journals actually publish more non-reproducible results. 17:24:57 gigamonkey: right, I am usually not personally affected by the fact that my output is used to make someone else bags of money 17:25:43 Yeah. So that bit is annoying. 17:25:56 though because of institutional subscription policies, there are several papers of mine (well, they're not mine any more, copyright was transferred) that I cannot access 17:26:26 not without a ruinous personal subscription 17:26:32 Hope you kept a copy. ;-) 17:27:13 anyway. So, yes, I look forward to quizzing you about how the economics work out 17:27:35 Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. 17:28:17 Basically I think it's going to boil down to whether we can produce something that's good enough that enough people will say, "I want more of that and I understand that if I don't pay for it there won't be any more." 17:28:42 Hopefully if we don't start by treating people like crooks, they'll be more inclined to take that view. 17:30:21 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:31:35 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:17 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:23 -!- maacl [~mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: maacl] 17:35:14 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:36:02 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:03 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:40:22 carlocci [~nes@93.37.206.19] has joined #lisp 17:41:30 skeptomai [~cb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:51 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:43:25 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-150-14.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 17:45:17 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-219-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:46:08 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483F8AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:12 Yuuhi [benni@p5483F8AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:45 -!- plage [~user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:10 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:51:03 bew [~bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:06 -!- tcr [~tcr@213.129.230.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:54:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:55:53 any free definition of the LOOP macro out there? 17:56:16 Yes. It's called PCL. 17:56:22 What? 17:56:33 No, PCL is CLOS, not LOOP. 17:56:59 For LOOP, look at almost any CL implementation, MIT LOOP, or SACLA LOOP. 17:57:10 pix4: http://homepage1.nifty.com/bmonkey/lisp/sacla/html/lisp/loop.lisp.html is sacla loop 17:57:17 oh I got it wrong ... Im looking for sth in the public domain 17:57:34 Xach: tnx 17:58:55 -!- b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:59:16 wow. it's huge. 18:00:01 Oops, right, it's Loops, not LOOP. 18:00:02 <_3b> well, it does more or less have its own chapetr in the spec 18:00:43 pix4, there's an implementation of a subset of LOOP in the (freely available) code from Peter Norvig's PAIP 18:00:45 -!- mega1 [~quassel@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:00:46 minion, tell pix4 about paip 18:00:47 pix4: please see paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/paip 18:01:20 specifically -- http://www.norvig.com/paip/loop.lisp 18:01:29 Adlai: minion : yep. saw that one already 18:02:11 enthymene [~kraken@adsl-76-242-89-178.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:25 minion: are you a bot? 18:02:26 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 18:02:50 I like norvigs code more because of the DEFLOOP. 18:03:30 Okay, I now have a strategy for mapping back from CATCH-BLOCK TNs used for UNWIND-PROTECT to the NLX-INFO structure involved. 18:03:47 And this is stupid, and should be done at a higher-level place than bloody PACK. 18:04:38 Now I just need to figure out how to obtain the defined-correct ordering out of this mess. 18:06:18 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082F48A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:09 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082FF68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:40 smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:35 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:11:32 gonzojive_ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-130.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:33 <_3b> hmm, sicl seems to have grown since the last time i looked at it, will have to check that out at some point 18:14:54 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-219-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:11 -!- lispm [~joswig@e177151002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:43 -!- bew [~bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: bew] 18:18:24 smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:37 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:20:01 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:20:51 -!- skeptomai [~cb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ok, I'm outta here] 18:21:41 maacl [~mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:24:23 bew [~bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:24:24 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 18:24:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:14 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-212-76.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:36 fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:32:40 -!- bew [~bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: bew] 18:32:49 5 18:33:49 Krystof: I noticed phdcomics reference :D 18:34:07 sebyte pasted "Undefined function - why?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95715 18:35:00 this is the package/macro problem i was asking about earlier - i can't seem to crack it, any help much appreciated 18:35:05 Hrm... Looks like I can start from the COMBINATION which is the mess-up for an NLX and chain through lexenv->cleanup->mess-up to build a plausible nesting. 18:35:11 *p_l* learned some good lessons from phdcomics 18:35:16 gonzojive__ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-130.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:21 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-130.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:36:11 sebyte: I don't think you've in fact shown all the relevant pieces. 18:37:11 manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8D866.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:19 Xach: No? Damn. I thought I had... 18:37:39 *_3b* wonders if some of that mapcar was intended to be (or should be) run at compile time 18:37:59 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8D866.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 18:38:17 i thought the macro expansion was more useful than the macro definition itself because all the names are qualified in the expansion 18:38:34 <_3b> or if magic-word-chk is intended to be a viarable, why the macro QUOTEs it 18:39:26 <_3b> sebyte: both macro and expansion would be even more useful that either separately 18:40:10 <_3b> macro probably preferred if we only get one though 18:40:40 ok hold on... (and thanks) 18:41:41 mejja [~user@c-52b1e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:46:39 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:48:03 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:48:44 <_3b> sebyte: foom examples like that i'd also put package qualifiers on the symbols from the other package (with-ff-checks and magic-word-chk i assume) so it is obvious they are the correct symbol without knowing if you exported/imported them properly, etc 18:52:21 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:52:51 Axius [~hi@92.84.4.199] has joined #lisp 18:53:42 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:59 Hello Fare. 18:54:02 what good library has a with-input-from-byte-vector or some such? 18:54:15 ... Are you thinking of flexi-streams? 18:54:27 maybe 18:55:21 flexi-streams has something; I think ironclad does too 18:56:19 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:56:23 sebyte annotated #95715 "take 2" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95715#1 18:57:23 A physenv is roughly equivalent to "stuff kept in a stack frame", isn't it? 18:57:40 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:46 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:58:34 oh? I'm trying to feed bytes to ironclad... 18:58:57 froydnj, actually, I'm trying to package your tthsum code a bit more nicely. 19:00:16 <_3b> sebyte: so is magic-word-chk a function? (and why not -check?) 19:01:27 dnolen [~dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 19:01:35 Fare: cool 19:01:36 the quote in ',ff-maps means it's just a symbol. 19:01:47 so it's not used for its run-time variable value. 19:01:49 (not a lot) 19:01:54 (at least not for now) 19:02:03 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.179.26] has joined #lisp 19:02:57 <_3b> ah, it is a variable, i see now... so what Xach said applies 19:03:04 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has joined #lisp 19:04:05 <_3b> (or the bit earlier about that mapcar being run at the wrong time applies) 19:04:12 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-177-77.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:04:24 sebyte: this looks overcomplicated, anyway. my advice is to scrap it and avoid macros. 19:04:52 ikki [~ikki@189.247.109.160] has joined #lisp 19:05:43 froydnj, miraculously, I pass the test vectors! 19:05:46 Xach: Nooooo!!! don't say that - it actually works if the macro is defined in the same package, i just want the put the macro in a library function 19:06:00 froydnj, is there a test suite with plenty of test vectors, in ironclad? 19:06:17 <_3b> sebyte: i suspect 'works' doesn't mean what you think it does in that case 19:06:20 ok, directory testing/ 19:06:40 Fare: test vectors for what, exactly? 19:06:42 sebyte: i concur with _3b. packages aren't the problem with that macro. 19:07:02 <_3b> Xach: i think there are package problems too, just not in the part shown originally 19:07:21 froydnj, thinking of adding them for tthsum 19:07:31 <_3b> actually, no... package stuff looks OK assuming the import/export stuff is right 19:07:33 Fare: ah 19:07:40 Oh, just make the macro "work" in the context of a single package first, -then- worry about multiple packages. 19:08:42 jdz [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has joined #lisp 19:08:58 froydnj, ok, so I've got your code in a way that should work for me (thanks a lot!) 19:09:11 is there a way I can contribute it back in a way that works for you, too? 19:09:37 <_3b> sebyte: did you understand what Xach said about quoting ,ff-maps (in the context of magic-word-chk not working) ? 19:10:46 Fare: other than sending the code to me and seeing what I think? not sure exactly what you're looking for here 19:11:58 I mostly just took the stuff on your page and wrapped in proper .asd / defpackage so it grafts itself on top of ironclad 19:12:15 _3b: yes, but I'm passing a list containing a single name->funtion mapping (("front_page" magic-word-chk) ...). funcall operates on the cadr of the list, so i'm sure it needs to be quoted - otherwise i get illegal function call errors. 19:12:25 smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:49 <_3b> sebyte: is magic-word-chk a function? 19:12:52 yes 19:13:05 phao [~phao@189.107.169.91] has joined #lisp 19:13:13 <_3b> so you define a variable named magic-word-chk, and assign a lambda to that, just to confuse us? 19:13:25 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.169.91] has left #lisp 19:13:58 Fare: ah. hm. 19:14:13 _3b: yes :) 19:14:30 there is a reason :) 19:14:43 it will be used later basically 19:14:45 Fare: the one big thing I'd like to see changed prior to that code's inclusion in ironclad is the ability to work incrementally 19:14:53 Fare: rather than having all the data up front 19:15:38 ok 19:15:43 <_3b> sebyte: well, your warning was from that unused variable, and your error was from it not being able to find the function named magic-word-chk, so at least declare the variable ignorable until you start using it 19:15:49 so something that works with the update-digest interface? 19:16:00 <_3b> sebyte: then figure out why it can't find the function of the same name (and why do they have the same name?) 19:16:16 TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:38 something similar in spirit; I don't consider mashing another DEFMETHOD on top of that interface for tthsum quite right 19:17:28 you spoke of renaming update-digest to update-state. For produce-digest what about just produce ? 19:17:53 _3b: declare it ignorable... ok, that'll be a first :) but yes that makes perfect sense 19:18:22 I'd prefer VERB-OBJECT, but I haven't been able to come up with a good binding for OBJECT 19:18:55 HASH ? DIGEST ? BYTES ? 19:19:10 VECTOR ? 19:19:49 (that's why currently I made it a separate package, not a patch to ironclad) 19:20:57 the easy way out of this is to have {MAKE,UPDATE,PRODUCE}-TTHSUM 19:23:33 meh 19:23:44 -!- Axius [~hi@92.84.4.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:24:12 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:22 maybe it wouldn't be so bad to just have UPDATE and PRODUCE 19:24:33 or FINALIZE 19:24:34 and MAKE ? 19:24:43 FINALIZE is fine 19:24:50 INITIALIZE ? 19:25:04 I think constructors should be MAKE-FOO 19:25:12 but the operators can simply be verbs 19:25:26 What about re-using an existing FOO? 19:25:28 -!- jdz [~jdz@84.237.142.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:25:36 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:50 (Yeah, I know, not likely unless allocation is expensive.) 19:25:56 -!- neme4ta [~rpm@chat.sysert.ru] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:26:02 that's what REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE is for 19:26:08 ensure-foo 19:26:08 Fair enough. 19:26:18 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:32 or optionally (MAKE-FOO KIND &OPTIONAL INSTANCE) 19:26:35 Is there some easy way to obtain a list or map over all of the PHYSENVs associated with a COMPONENT? 19:26:51 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-124-230.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:28:30 ...and here I was thinking about moving away from generic functions to hand-rolled dispatch tables 19:29:30 froydnj, use interface-passing-style! 19:29:33 Do I "just" pull COMPONENT-LAMBDAS and then grab LAMBDA-PHYSENV of each lambda and remove-duplicates? 19:30:05 reuse the same interface object, plus a vector for the state... 19:31:15 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:32:35 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:33:35 the open-content.net site with the tth spec disappeared :( :( :( 19:33:43 heh 19:34:26 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:34:58 -!- maacl [~mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: maacl] 19:36:14 update-code ? 19:39:15 nicdev [~user@dhcp-124.subnet-219.amherst.edu] has joined #lisp 19:41:11 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:41:57 I've created a macro and would like to submit for peer review and/or "that already exists" comments. 19:42:42 minion: tell Shaftoe about paste 19:42:43 Ugh: (tn-ref-tn (vop-args (ir2-block-last-vop (block-info (ctran-block (node-prev FOO)))))). Clearly, I'm doing something wrong. 19:42:43 Shaftoe: please see paste: lisppaste: lisppaste is an IRC bot that runs under the nickname "lisppaste" and can be used (only for the #lisp IRC channel!) at http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp - or http://paste.lisp.org/ for other destinations 19:43:07 marioxcc [~user@201.132.83.180] has joined #lisp 19:43:24 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-177-77.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:43:25 nyef: IR2 was not really designed for analysis-y things 19:43:33 Shaftoe pasted "with-sql-results" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95718 19:43:49 Apparently not. 19:44:10 So, I have a set of TNs that must be packed in lexical-nesting order. 19:44:16 (the #'query call is clsql:query) 19:44:18 How do I arrange this? 19:44:34 *sebyte* thinks declaring things ignorable is cool (and surprisingly easy) 19:44:52 (Or maybe it was reverse-lexical-nesting order. One or the other.) 19:45:36 Oh. I annotate the NLX-INFO in the first place. Right. 19:46:53 Shaftoe: fwiw, you could use (defmacro with-sql-results ((command args fields) &body body) ... 19:47:09 Shaftoe: but I don't have any other comments on the substance of the macro 19:47:32 froydnj: you mean to say that it's ok. Or it's uncommentably useless? =) 19:47:40 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:47:56 dnolen_ [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:01 Shaftoe annotated #95718 "Example usage" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95718#1 19:48:43 (ugh. the format string is wrong on that annotation) 19:49:33 Shaftoe: I mean to say that I don't know enough about clsql to say whether it's good or bad. I have a hard time believing that something similar doesn't already exist, though 19:49:51 froydnj, there are no &key arguments to make-digest ??? 19:50:23 alrighty. I'll lurk around to see if anyone makes a comment. (clsql has something similar but not exactly this) 19:50:31 how am I supposed to make a digest that is parametrized by another digest, such as a tree-hash? 19:50:57 (parametrized by a digest AND a block size and probably also by some padding function) 19:51:02 Fare: (make-digest '(:tthsum :md5)), I suppose 19:51:13 meh 19:51:57 with SHA-3 candidates, it seems likely that make-digest will have to grow a bit (when/if such candidates get added to ironclad) 19:52:04 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:52:04 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 19:52:07 but so far, there hasn't been a need 19:52:49 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:52:57 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:53:26 froydnj: Is it at least reasonable to go component->lambdas->physenvs to obtain a list of nlx-infos to work with, or do I need to rethink that bit as well? 19:53:57 froydnj, the problem with touching other people's code is that I don't dare change the API, and since the API doesn't satisfy me, ouch. 19:54:31 nyef: not entirely sure. I think what you have sounds plausible 19:54:38 Okay, thanks. 19:54:52 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757ac5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:53 (Bloody win32 uwp.) 19:55:23 -!- sebyte [~sebyte@213.229.74.8] has quit [Quit: restarting emacs] 19:55:34 -!- nicdev [~user@dhcp-124.subnet-219.amherst.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:56:41 froydnj, would you be OK with passing key arguments to make-digest? 19:57:42 or do you want a composite name '(:tree-hash :digest :tiger :block-size 1024 :padding blah :branching 2) ? 19:58:38 wow. 19:58:41 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 19:59:05 (actually, default keyword argument values would be filled in) 19:59:46 -!- gonzojive__ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-130.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:01 gonzojive_ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-130.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:22 ok with passing &key if you can verify that the make-digest compiler macro still works properly (bonus points for some clever extension to tthsum'ing bits) 20:01:24 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 20:01:34 -!- fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:02:41 nyef: are you near a win32 sbcl? 20:02:46 Yes. 20:03:08 A 1.0.27.5. 20:03:22 nyef: what does (with-open-file (s "/dev/urandom" :direction :input :if-does-not-exist nil) t) return? 20:03:27 tautologico [~andrei@189.71.115.20] has joined #lisp 20:04:12 froydnj, do you expect anything but nil? 20:04:30 possibly an error if pathname parsing chokes, I suppose 20:04:35 T, of course. 20:04:49 ooo, fun. thanks 20:04:52 atannir [~4354ce08@gateway/web/freenode/x-jcbdgzpaefanbwbr] has joined #lisp 20:05:01 how can I have an unboxed vector/array of fixnums? if I make-array with :element-type fixnum, will the vector be unboxed? 20:05:06 unicode [~user@95.214.14.24] has joined #lisp 20:05:14 yeah, what if some overly clever hacker creates a directory c:\dev\ with a file random in it? 20:05:16 nicdev [~user@2002:9455:f116:b:217:f2ff:fe42:7a8e] has joined #lisp 20:05:19 (Reason being that you don't actually do anything with S, and there's no c:\dev directory in my machine.) 20:05:24 ska` [~user@124.157.132.176] has joined #lisp 20:05:24 doh 20:05:26 unicode_ [~user@95.214.14.24] has joined #lisp 20:09:01 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:09:29 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:09:33 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.14.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:10:54 tautologico: i might be wrong, but since fixnums are already immediate there's no point for them being unboxed, but you can have word-size unboxed integers 20:11:27 will-power [~HP_Owner@72.170.94.228] has joined #lisp 20:12:43 And the answer is "no, a vector specialized to fixnum will typically be stored as boxed data". And the only reason you'd -care- is if you're planning on accessing the underlying memory directly instead of through the normal array accessors. 20:13:21 stassats`: that assumes a particular implementation strategy; on abcl, for instance, a fixnum vector might be int[] whereas a fixnum is held in an Integer object 20:14:01 but nyef is right in any event: ask for what you want and 999/1000, let the implementation DTRT 20:14:19 (disclaimer, I know nothing about abcl internals, just speculating) 20:14:23 unless you care for performance 20:15:13 eh. maybe. 20:15:15 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:02 if make-array :element-type 'fixnum doesn't give you the performance you need, then you need to complain to your implementor 20:16:02 I need to store data for tridimensional objects... each object is composed of faces, which are composed of vertices 20:16:11 you shouldn't care about performance before you've measured the bottleneck 20:16:46 -!- nicdev [~user@2002:9455:f116:b:217:f2ff:fe42:7a8e] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:17:47 premature pessimization isn't great either 20:18:23 jan247 [~jan247@120.28.68.223] has joined #lisp 20:18:23 -!- jan247 [~jan247@120.28.68.223] has quit [Changing host] 20:18:23 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 20:18:37 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:19:08 something i learned about storing fixmuns unbox.. the moment you get them .. you have to rebox them 20:19:17 at lest for lisp 20:19:36 and depending on the hardware .. the ref to the box is the same cost as the primtive 20:19:47 for jvm based lisps anyways 20:20:15 stassats`, so don't use bogosort 20:20:26 francogrex [~user@56.136-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:20:39 meaning i find more performance if you dont bother unboxing them for storage.. since the first thing you do is rebox them for access ;) 20:21:02 fixnums on real hardware don't need unboxing for some operations 20:21:15 and boxing/unboxing is just a shift away 20:21:21 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.179.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:33 yeah.. i still want tagged box<->unbox ! 20:21:47 ok, next newbie question: how do I declare a vector composed of 3-element vectors of fixnums? I mean, each vertex is a vector with 3 fixnums, a face is a vector of vertices 20:22:19 :element-type (simple-array fixnum 3), something like this? 20:22:20 (declare (type (simple-array fixnum (3)) vector)) 20:22:30 Pseudo-pointer format of http://blogs.sun.com/jrose/entry/fixnums_in_the_vm 20:22:38 abugosh [~Adium@75.97.206.170.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:42 oh, you mean create? (make-array 3 :element-type 'fixnum) 20:22:53 this is for the vertices 20:23:03 I mean for the faces, which are vectors of vertices 20:23:12 -!- abugosh [~Adium@75.97.206.170.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23:23 oh, then you don't specify element-type 20:23:39 since it will be upgraded to T anyway 20:23:50 oh ok 20:23:51 thanks 20:24:04 oh yeah somehting i was going to mention is fixnums underlying impl like in UABCL its T 20:24:11 in ABCL its really the unboxed version 20:24:41 though "contraints" are still put on the T 20:25:00 on the T array .. for sanity purpose and not for stroage 20:25:32 dnolen_ [~dnolen@pool-70-19-64-12.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:56 damn oops i lied its Fixnum[] in UABCL .. which is the same sizeof T 20:26:45 but may as well been LispObject[] another name for T[] 20:27:22 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:27:24 anyhow just info .. dunno if its helpfull info 20:27:59 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:59 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 20:28:06 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:28:11 cool... tsunami warning! I wonder if a can make it to tofino in time to surf it. 20:28:16 sorry, wrong chan 20:28:47 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-130.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:48 gonzojive__ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-130.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:40 Heh. 20:34:05 oh i know where i was going now.. in ABCL you get better performance not specifying :element-type 20:34:54 in UABCL you get the same performance 20:35:44 what's UABCL? 20:36:00 un-armed bear common lisp? 20:36:10 yeah 20:36:42 look ma, no arms! 20:36:45 failing to exercise the right to arm bears? 20:37:03 This is distinct from dis-armed bear common lisp? 20:37:21 http://code.google.com/p/uabcl/ 20:37:49 Ah. 20:37:54 it's a bear that is expert in unarmed combat 20:37:56 written under the influence of a farewell to arms 20:40:00 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:23 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1cb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:40:33 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:41 basically its getting what was ABCL ready for a Codemerge with LarKC 20:42:08 so that people can use common lisp in Cyc's REPL 20:42:52 both systems do things better than each otehr.. ABCL vs JavaCyc/LarKC 20:43:22 so has mainstream ABCL stopped development? It didn't seem to evolve very fast... 20:43:57 fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:44:27 i think its still developed pretty well.. i think though they trying to not do as much in java as they want to do in lisp 20:44:59 which may or may not always speed up the progress 20:45:41 in LarKC it was discovered at times things done in lisp.. might be better done in java .. expecially arround innerloops of IO 20:46:38 that the lisifying the access to JRE based things for instance.. keeping a Fixnum for filepos might be better instead to increment a long 20:47:10 then using the compiled lisp version 20:47:45 slash__ [~Unknown@p5DD1C205.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:54 i guess what i am saying is that i am not sure ABCL has sold itself on this fact as much 20:48:04 -!- fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:48:06 fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:49:35 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@p4FF0AE5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:49:53 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.179.26] has joined #lisp 20:50:17 if they think about these things are thought of more, there might be a longer todo list for ABCL 20:51:06 Fare: so i think they are at least keeping up with their todo list 20:51:23 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.132.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:07 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o drewc 20:52:17 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o drewc 20:52:49 *dmiles_afk* is really afk again 20:53:14 -!- slash__ [~Unknown@p5DD1C205.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:53:30 slash_ [~Unknown@p5DD1C205.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:00 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:04 nyef annotated #95661 "A possibly-better-principled attempt (untested)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95661#1 20:56:44 I'm still not happy with this, but I'm not sure what else to try. 20:57:10 Any SBCL compiler-hackers want to tell me if and where I'm going wrong? 20:58:58 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 20:59:00 -!- slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:01:37 G0SUB [~ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 21:02:09 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:09:03 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 21:09:15 -!- tautologico [~andrei@189.71.115.20] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:11:51 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-svmanwcfgltlchad] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:13:59 froydnj, the docstrings speak of allowing strings as input to tiger and other digest 21:14:11 but the main docs says no to it 21:15:18 slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:49 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-68-54-2-128.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:07 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 21:21:28 tetiana` [~user@charcoal.rendition.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:55 How can i make string symbol from string? To make the expression (eql 'str1 (some-function "str1")) true. 21:22:32 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:46 clhs intern 21:22:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_intern.htm 21:22:52 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.179.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:56 (eql 'str1 (find-symbol "STR1" (symbol-package 'str1))) 21:22:56 (this link is for tetiana` ) 21:23:51 thanks 21:24:42 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:25:26 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:25:48 -!- atannir [~4354ce08@gateway/web/freenode/x-jcbdgzpaefanbwbr] has left #lisp 21:27:25 stassats`: that doens't really make a symbol from a string... it find a symbol with the same name! :P 21:27:35 *drewc* is feeling pedantic today 21:27:48 drewc: I have just the thing for you then 21:27:51 =) 21:27:55 drewc: but it conforms to the specification! 21:28:10 http://paste.lisp.org/display/95718 21:28:13 intern is what i need 21:28:23 drewc: intern will do the same 21:29:06 drewc: or you wanted make-symbol? 21:29:14 stassats`: intern will also create the symbol... 21:29:24 find-symbol will not 21:29:44 drewc: only if it doesn't exist 21:29:56 true 21:30:13 *drewc* was not pedantic enough! 21:30:15 so, make-symbol will make symbol always, for pedants 21:30:17 drewc: any comments on that lisppaste ? 21:30:29 (intern "FOO" (make-package)) ? 21:30:47 (Yeah, I'm probably missing an arg or two to make-package there.) 21:31:36 Shaftoe: that is some of the ugliest lisp code relating to SQL i've yet had the chance to see.... what is it supposed to do? 21:32:03 ha ha. I was expecting something abrasive of that grade. 21:32:36 drewc: what it does is a shorthand to using stored procs via clsql:query 21:32:53 Shaftoe: glad i didn't disappoint :) 21:33:12 How to make hash table from the list '(:k1 :v1 :k2 :v2)? 21:33:18 drewc: so what is ugly about it. what it does or how it does it 21:33:36 Shaftoe: it's the how, certainly. 21:33:55 drewc: good. So what can I make better? 21:35:51 Tordek [~tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ufuwfanfdmpglqrc] has joined #lisp 21:35:51 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:35:53 tetiana`: there are many ways. 21:35:55 tetiana`: (loop for (key value) on plist by #'cddr do (setf (gethash key hashtable) value)) 21:36:19 -!- spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-226-233.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:37:15 See also: alexandria:plist-hash-table 21:37:20 -!- unicode_ [~user@95.214.14.24] has left #lisp 21:37:53 drewc: there is one real major problem in that version of the code with the input params, but I'm fixing that 21:37:55 Shaftoe: well, i'm still not 100% clear on what you are trying to do really... what does your with-sql-results macro buy you? 21:38:10 spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-161-199.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:10 drewc: it buys me several things: 21:38:58 drewc: I can access columns by symbol, instead of by (nth ...) -> this means cleaner code like so (format t "~a" account) instead of (format t "~a" (nth 2 result)) 21:39:18 Shaftoe: no... i get that... 21:39:25 drewc: it also ensures in a soft way that what I Expected to be valid at compile time (my sp signature) is still there when I run 21:40:01 so you don't mind required a database to _compile_ you application? 21:40:09 -!- Tordek [~tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ufuwfanfdmpglqrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:40:12 drewc: no I don't. 21:40:33 Shaftoe: what you want is one macro called RESULT-BIND, and another called STORED-PROCEDURE-FUNCALL 21:40:34 drewc: the image sits on a server. I have perpetual db access. it's not a problem. 21:40:56 Shaftoe: so you are going to recompile and re-provision on every change to the db? 21:41:20 maacl [~mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:41:27 drewc: perhaps. But if I don't, I'll get a nice warning in teh log file. The db isn't meant to be changing that often anyways. 21:41:30 Shaftoe: macros and functions should do one simple thing and do it well... you have a lot of different functionality all conflated together 21:41:49 drewc: yes, that I do. 21:42:00 checking that you DB is still valid is something that is done on app startup time! 21:42:04 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:42:05 pdponze [~pierre@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 21:42:19 -!- tetiana` [~user@charcoal.rendition.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:22 drewc: so can you tell me what stored-procedure-funcall would do? 21:42:33 ie. what functionality I would extricate from the current macro? 21:43:44 drewc: do notice that the result-bind phase of the macro (compile time) calls the stored procedure. IOW, I didn't manage to really make them separate enough 21:44:27 (assert (eql (select-only-one 'version :from 'defaults) *compile-time-db-version*)) <--- i do something like that rather than the run-time check for any changes in anything 21:44:36 froydnj, does produce-digest create a new array everytime, or do I have to be careful to copy it? 21:45:06 Shaftoe: if you are changing the db randomly out from under your application and need to check for that, can i suggest you're doing something wrong process-wise? 21:45:14 drewc: interesting. What is the db side tool you use to get the compile time db version? 21:45:32 drewc: no, the db rarely ever changes. 21:45:59 Shaftoe: so why do you need the runtime type check? 21:46:02 drewc: i.e. I'm not randomly changing it from underneath my feeet 21:46:29 drewc: do you mean the part about (warn ..) ? 21:46:37 yes 21:46:43 drewc: if that's what you're talking about: I don't. It's just to be pedantic =) 21:47:06 drewc: it's really really not high on my priority list, that piece of code in particular 21:47:33 Shaftoe: well, without that code what exactly is your macro doing? it's just giving names to query results? 21:47:41 yessum 21:48:13 yowza, you've over-engineered this! :) 21:48:21 drewc: but while checking that the said names exist as a return to the sp 21:49:04 drewc: i.e. if I use a variable 'foo that isn't part of the sp signature, I get a compile time error 21:49:16 so you do want the type checking then. 21:49:31 drewc: yes, at *compile* time. 21:49:43 Shaftoe: #haskell is thataway ----> :P 21:49:43 drewc: the type checking at *runtime*: entirely optional 21:50:47 so, you know that it's impossible in the general case... right? 21:50:51 I mean, I could use sticks and stones as well. But I consider it helpful that if I use a symbol that I'm expecting from the db and it's not there, somebody tells me something about it 21:51:07 drewc: general case of? 21:51:18 drewc: I know it won't work if I'm not connected to the db while I'm coding, yes. 21:51:45 Shaftoe: say you want to, i don't know, store the name of a stored procedure in a variable and pass it? 21:51:54 you know... first class values? 21:51:54 drewc: "I" in this case = me -> swank -> sbcl image -> db 21:52:21 drewc: yup. That's not the design goal of this, and I'm fully aware that won't work 21:53:05 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:36 drewc: but I think it's kind of assumed that when we're working with cl-sql and actually querying a machine or image that lives on its own, we make some concessions as far as the purity of our code goes, no? 21:53:59 drewc: iow: I can't have it all. 21:54:33 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:42 Shaftoe: i'm not sure what you're trying to achieve actually... you seem to be giving up usful things for no gain beyond a compile error :) 21:55:58 drewc: hmm. that compile time error is worth its weight in gold. You'd advocate I use (clsql:query (format nil ...)) ? 21:56:00 instead? 21:56:24 no, i'd advocate you use ROFL when such an error is impossible... but that's not the point. 21:57:02 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229144217.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:57:12 drewc: alright. so as far as code goes. Is it decent enough or do you see bullet holes in it? 21:57:31 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:57:46 -!- gonzojive__ [~red@adsl-75-6-248-130.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive__] 21:58:03 froydnj had said I should move the destructuring bind of the macro param list into the macro def itself: (defmacro with-sql-results ((command args fields) &body body) 21:58:09 aside from that? 21:58:50 Shaftoe: like i said, it's ugly, unmodular, and of questionable quality. Why do you concatenate a string from a list to test it against another string that you made by concatenating an almost identical list? 21:59:14 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:59:26 drewc: you're talking about the (warn ...) again, aren't you. 21:59:49 drewc: to answer you, it was my way of deep comparing two lists quickly. I just threw that in at the end. 22:00:11 Shaftoe: you are asking for advice ya? and not trying to defend a thesis? 22:00:27 drewc: and to answer you: they're not identical. One of them is concatenated at runtime, the other at compile time. 22:00:30 clhs tree-equal 22:00:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_tree_e.htm 22:00:36 Shaftoe: ^ 22:00:49 that, and the fact that they are not trees but simple lists.... 22:00:51 ah great. That's good to know. 22:01:12 (equalp '("a") '("a")) => t 22:01:49 ahh. yes. 22:02:59 (defun test () (eq '("a") '("a"))), compiled in sbcl, (test) => T 22:03:14 Shaftoe: (defun sp-funcall (fn &rest args) (query (apply #'prepare fn args))) 22:03:48 sbcl team: Any need of build bots? 22:04:32 is boinkor working these days? 22:04:39 drewc: by #'prepare are you refering to my prepare-sql-command func? 22:04:50 Shaftoe: (defmacro result-bind (bindings form) .... ) and add compile time checks when (eq (car form 'sp-funcall)) 22:05:13 Shaftoe: or whatever, sure. 22:05:27 i have no idea what your prepare-sql-command function actually does... 22:05:30 so i ommited it 22:05:45 drewc: that's fine. it's crap 22:06:00 we are agreed on that :P 22:06:14 (I know there's format foo to do that in a single line, but I just whipped it up) 22:06:48 still not sure what it is actually doing... but i don't use clsql so perhaps it's related. 22:07:04 wgl: Sounds interesting to me, depending on the platform and other access beyond build bots (for trying to fix things when the build bots indicate a problem). 22:07:53 -!- maacl [~mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: maacl] 22:07:54 I have 32 and 64 linux, intel mac, ppc mac, freebsd, openbsd available to help out. 22:07:58 drewc: (prepare-sql-command "test" '("asdf" 43 "qwe't")) => "test 'asdf', 43, 'qwe''t'" 22:08:08 Ooh. 22:08:28 Shaftoe: why are you using strings as you sql interation language in the first place? 22:08:50 drewc: you mean inbound or outbound? 22:09:11 drewc: clsql returns a list of strings as its resultset column names 22:09:12 both really, but lets start with your query language. 22:09:31 drewc: for the query language, I'm not using strings. they're unnamed going in 22:09:39 .... 22:09:47 looks like fucking strings to me 22:10:34 drewc: and, that code has a flaw in it, but the purpose of the query language is that I use it like so: (with-sql-results ("spLogin" '("user" "password" "address" 1234) (Account Notes))...) where the first list is a bunch of values 22:11:13 sorry.. help me out here.... "spLogin" <--- what type of data is that? 22:11:24 and also .. what does CLSQL:QUERY accept as input? 22:11:31 drewc: "spLogin" is the name of the stored proc. 22:11:33 -!- pdponze [~pierre@144.85.124.96] has left #lisp 22:11:47 drewc: clsql:query takes a fully valid SQL statement. a string. 22:11:54 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:58 -!- pix4 [~pixel@212.60.130.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:13:10 drewc: with that statement, (with-sql-results ("spLogin" '("user" "password" "address" 1234) (Account Notes)) 22:13:10 (http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_t.htm "~a ~a ~a~%" Account Notes)), what should happen is that a SQL statement is sent to the server: "spLogin 'user', 'password', 'address', 1234", and the result is walked in a loop with Account and Notes lexically bound. 22:13:23 "I'm not using strings" yet "spLogin" is a string, and Query takes strings.... 22:13:24 (to corresponding columns) 22:14:01 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:15 bah, i give up.. it don't feel like teaching the basics today. 22:14:21 syamajala [~syamajala@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:24 *drewc* gets real work done instead 22:14:25 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:14 drewc: you said " why are you using strings as you sql interation language in the first place?". I don't get it, what else could I use to denote a stored procedure on a remote server? a vector? 22:15:47 Shaftoe: jesus... you are dense man! This is lisp... how do we name things in lisp? 22:15:58 a symbol 22:16:22 and what is the closed thing to a 'procedure' in lisp? 22:16:31 pixel [~pixel@212.60.130.33] has joined #lisp 22:16:35 -!- pixel is now known as pix4 22:16:40 a function? 22:16:44 good! 22:17:05 ... Why don't you have first-class stored-procedure objects anyway? 22:17:21 so, when calling a stored procedure from lisp, to make it integrate well... what form should the call to the stored procedure take? 22:17:54 a) how should we name it? and b) how should we call it? ;) 22:18:03 I can understand the basic idea you're getting at here, I should have a defun that defines the appropriate lexical bindings. 22:18:22 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:33 *drewc* bangs his head on his desk 22:18:43 drewc: so are you saying that I Should make use of the macro name as being the name of the stored proc? 22:18:55 Shaftoe: why a macro? 22:18:55 think of the poor desk! 22:19:53 drewc: perhaps I'm not good at explaining myself. I'm sorry I took your time though. 22:20:17 sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:09 Shaftoe: programming _is_ explaining yourself... to a compiler... once you can properly express your problems, you should be able to formulate a solution as well.. simply naming something properly is half the battle. 22:21:09 -!- francogrex [~user@56.136-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:22:09 Shaftoe: but when you say something like "I should have a defun that defines the appropriate lexical bindings", i have no idea what you are trying to say, and nor will your compiler :) 22:22:39 drewc: I don't get what you're getting at, and honestly, I'm afraid you're gonna fly off the handle 22:22:57 hahaha... phear! 22:23:33 are you saying I should have a macro like so: (with-sql-results 'osbLoginUserEx ("joe" "123") ...) instead of (with-sql-results ("osbLoginUserEx" ("joe " "123") ...) ? 22:23:59 no, i've said you need RESULT-BIND and SP-FUNCALL... that was the very first thing i said 22:24:12 wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 22:24:12 -!- sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:24:14 i've even given you tips on how to do it and get your compile-time type checks 22:24:35 sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:46 and, furthermore, i've suggested that stored-procedures could actually simply be functions... 22:24:48 -!- sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:25:06 sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:08 drewc: alright., but just now when you asked me " why are you using strings as you sql interation language in the first place?". what are you saying is my alternative option? 22:25:16 Shaftoe: symbols? 22:25:17 sarah93: go away 22:25:20 -!- sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:25:34 Shaftoe: a symbolic SQL language... thats what i use. 22:25:36 <_deepfire> wgl, likely a bot 22:25:46 right 22:25:50 sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:51 so, 'spLogin instead of "spLogin", right? 22:26:02 (select 'foo :from 'bar `(:where (:= baz ,bat))) 22:26:10 -!- sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:26:37 drewc: ah, yes. indeed. that stuff already exists with cl-sql, but it's only good if you create the entire statement. It doesn't work well with stored procs. 22:26:40 sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:53 -!- sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:27:11 sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:15 drewc: so what I'm hearing you say is that I should make lisp functions that implement stored procs, and not use db built in stored procs then? 22:27:21 (result-bind (author name) (spLogin "username" "password" "1234") ...) 22:27:30 -!- sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:27:48 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:27:57 drewc: ahh. ok. that looks prettier. 22:27:57 sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:15 Shaftoe: you have as much problems with reading comprehension as you do with explaining yourself! Where exactly did you read anything of the sort? 22:28:40 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.83.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:28:46 (define-stored-procedure spLogin (...) ...) 22:29:17 nowhere did i say to re-implement stored procedures in lisp. 22:29:37 -!- sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:29:42 drewc: so that means I have to define a stored procedure even if I only ever use it once in code. there is an obvious disadvantage to that. 22:29:53 sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:10 Shaftoe: you are dangerously close to bringing on a naggum... what operator have i suggested to you? 22:31:04 RESULT-BIND and DEFINE-STORED-PROCEDURE .. and... one more ... wait for it ... SP-FUNCALL! :P 22:31:32 wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 22:31:39 wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 22:31:41 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o drewc 22:31:42 -!- sarah93 [sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 22:31:55 down low... too slow! :P 22:31:59 :D 22:32:06 froydnj, I just sent you a patch 22:32:08 drewc: I'm not nimble enough to understand all that this quickly. I will check these out overnight though. in the meantime, I have to check out this link that sarah93 is sending out. it looks interesting. 22:33:51 Shaftoe: (result-bind (foo bar) (sp-funcall 'spBaz "bat" "baf") ...) no need to define it beforehand. 22:34:53 Shaftoe: the advantages of defining it beforehand is compile time checks on the arguments... which IMO is much more important then checking if you've provided a symbol of the wrong name to be bound 22:35:17 Fare: testcases would be nice, too 22:36:11 what? test cases? 22:36:27 who do you think I am? someone who doesn't write perfect code? 22:36:36 trust but verify? 22:36:43 "i have not tested it, only proved it correct" :P 22:36:57 drewc: alright. this is looking good now. thanks for talking it out 22:38:08 Shaftoe: you're just luck i had had my coffee and was not hung-over... i was able to keep the frustration level to a minimum :P 22:38:44 froydnj, http://paste.lisp.org/+21UZ. 22:38:53 relies on your base32 code, though 22:39:31 I should try to compare a few files with tthsum and that... sigh. 22:39:36 drewc: bah. you should have a defcon meter next to your nick 22:39:48 hmph. binascii would be better; I'm not sure I want to make ironclad depend on binascii, though. 22:39:58 Shaftoe: not a bad idea :D 22:40:01 what's binascii? 22:40:41 http://github.com/froydnj/binascii 22:40:57 base{16,32,64,85}/ascii85 library 22:41:10 google told me. Shouldn't that have been instead a module to babel or flexi-streams? 22:42:15 maybe. those strike me as kitchen-sink places for the code, rather than places that sort of thing properly belongs to, though 22:42:39 drewc: I guess the question is, should the defcon value be a symbol or a string 22:42:51 :D 22:43:06 froydnj, any chance you'd commit my patch soon, or should I be maintaining my own branch for release of xcvb? 22:43:11 Shaftoe: obviously an integer. duh. 22:43:26 *drewc* reads c.l.l 22:43:41 btw, by what standard means do you transform strings to bytes for digestion? 22:43:44 drewc: no, wait, STOOOOOP! 22:43:50 drewc, no, don't do that! Madness lies there! 22:44:06 Fare: I don't; that's the user's job 22:44:25 what do you do when you're a user? 22:44:35 many a docstring should be updated for that, btw 22:44:55 use your favorite string->bytes converter (babel, sb-ext:string-to-octets, whatever ccl has, etc.) 22:45:11 I hope that, after i'm gone, people continue to argue with me on usenet. 22:45:50 hm, which docstrings? 22:46:04 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1242356783.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:07 I need something reasonably portable. I suppose that I can use (map '(vector (unsigned-byte 8)) 'char-code ...) for now, assuming my string is ASCII... 22:46:46 if you're making it work with ironclad, ironclad has ascii-string-to-byte-array 22:46:57 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 22:47:04 froydnj, grep 'simple-string or a simple-array' ironclad/src/*/*p 22:47:37 Fare: oh, right, cut-and-paste documentation 22:48:15 *drewc* lols 22:48:16 atm those are docstrings on defmethods, which the user probably isn't going to find 22:48:35 does binascii implement base32? mimencode-compatible base64? uuencode? 22:48:37 but the docstring on e.g. update-digest could probably be better 22:49:10 binascii implements base32. I don't think it implements mime's base64, but it would be very easy to do so 22:49:34 in any event, the HTML ironclad documentation clearly says "don't use strings here" :) 22:49:35 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 22:50:26 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:52:06 pyr0 [~pyr0@93-97-51-195.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:53:16 Fare: binascii does implement mime's base64 22:55:01 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:56:52 froydnj, I only tested with the provided test vectors so far. 22:58:33 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:02:55 stipet [~user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:03:05 hmm.. ironclad. I'll have to sit down and write that Skein hash for it one day 23:03:08 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 23:05:11 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 23:08:58 hello 23:10:20 Hello fe[nl]ix. 23:10:59 hi nyef :) 23:12:46 tcr [~tcr@85-127-102-42.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:15:09 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-fbzifmjaymlqcesq] has joined #lisp 23:15:49 saikat [~saikat@adsl-68-126-196-69.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:49 -!- saikat [~saikat@adsl-68-126-196-69.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:24:00 froydnj, any examples or docs for using binascii? 23:28:05 saikat [~saikat@adsl-68-126-196-69.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:22 -!- stipet [~user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:29:44 (binascii:encode *r1* :base32) ==> The value -1 is not of type (MOD 7). 23:30:03 where (defparameter *r1* (digest-sequence :tth (make-array '(1) :element-type '(unsigned-byt\ 23:30:03 e 8) :initial-element 65))) 23:30:07 -!- pyr0 [~pyr0@93-97-51-195.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:32:22 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:34:04 Fare: hm, odd. what's in *r1*? 23:34:31 maacl [~mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 23:36:54 a simple-vector of bytes 23:37:01 obtained as above 23:37:11 (defparameter *r1* (digest-sequence :tth (make-array '(1) :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) :initial-element 65))) 23:37:30 *adeht* guesses REM/MOD issue 23:38:46 I thought these only happened when using C 23:40:11 likely wrong guess anyway ;) 23:40:11 Fare: http://common-lisp.net/~sionescu/PROTOCOL 23:40:23 Fare: comments ? 23:40:27 -!- tcr [~tcr@85-127-102-42.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:41:02 (reading) 23:41:05 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:38 does it have to exec? no fork with whole server state? 23:41:53 I would have made CWD and EXEC as instructions, just like the rest 23:43:56 what are credentials and rights? 23:44:51 you should also assign numbers with each "instruction" 23:44:56 credentials are a triple (pid, uid, gid) 23:45:21 as part of the spec 23:45:53 in order to work, the daemon will have to run as root or some very similar level 23:46:13 the same API should work locally as well as talking to a daemon 23:46:21 (modulo access rights) 23:46:31 and you can't just allow the client to specify which (uid, gid) to switch to 23:46:46 Sure you can! 23:46:53 the daemon first gets the process's actual credentials, switch to those 23:46:56 a useful chroot will probably require some mount/bind fiddling, a linux-specific extension, but oh well, doesn't need be in V1 23:47:10 then switch to the actual run-time credentials 23:47:22 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757ac5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:31 you could allow it, given proper password/cookie, etc. Once again, probably not in V1 23:47:35 Fare: I don't have your patch; could you please juse provide the actual bytes? 23:47:50 what are cookies? 23:47:52 nyef: in that case, a client would be able to specify (0,0) and make a program run as root 23:48:01 fe[nl]ix: Yup! 23:48:04 Fare: random 64bit values 23:48:13 nyef: that's bad for security 23:48:22 True, but you could -do- it. 23:48:32 sure, but I don't want to 23:48:39 Fair enough. 23:48:58 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:48:58 froydnj, similar error for about any output from crypto:digest-sequence 23:49:30 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:35 nyef: a way to get around that, by having some kind of whitelist could be baked into the protocol 23:49:40 but that's for later 23:50:59 Fare: I decided that I want a transaction to be a TCP connection 23:51:25 Fare: the user will use the cookie as authentication, when sending the credentials via UDP to the daemon 23:52:21 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483F8AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:52:28 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@p5DD1C205.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:52:53 fe[nl]ix: I'm... frightened. This will be exposed to the internet? 23:53:04 milanj [~milan@211.22.24.217.adsl2.dyn.beograd.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:26 nyef: no. the daemon will listen on local(AF_UNIX) sockets 23:53:32 TCP and UDP 23:53:51 ... But TCP and UDP are internet protocols. 23:54:02 Don't you need an AF_INET socket to deal with them? 23:54:06 no 23:54:49 -!- qamikaz [~alper@85.107.70.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:02 qamikaz [~alper@85.107.70.129] has joined #lisp 23:55:12 Wow. Simultaneous P and Not P. 23:55:21 the unix logger(klogd, etc...) uses AF_UNIX,SOCK_DGRAM sockets 23:55:24 fe[nl]ix: incorrect. You can use datagram and stream protocol on AF_UNIX, but you can't use TCP and UDP 23:55:38 right 23:55:40 :) 23:56:22 So it's not UDP, it's something else that behaves vaguely like UDP? 23:56:27 no need to actually implement those, since the loopback is suppose to be 100% reliable 23:56:29 fe[nl]ix, can a local TCP or UDP sendmsg include credentials? 23:56:30 nyef: exactly 23:56:42 Good, I was getting worried there. 23:56:55 Fare: AFAIK only datagram sockets 23:57:00 that's why I need both 23:57:16 it's just that by standard, SOCK_DGRAM for AF_INET is UDP and SOCK_STREAM is TCP. For ATM, quite possible SOCK_DGRAM might be straight forward ATM packet :-) 23:57:32 if it's local, aren't DGRAM packets guaranteed to arrive? 23:57:43 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:43 Fare: actually not, I think 23:57:54 p_l, what???? That verily sucks. 23:58:10 If they're not guaranteed to arrive, why use them for logging 23:58:11 ? 23:58:41 p_l: I'd be very surprised if that were true 23:58:46 in this world, nothing is guaranteed ever :) 23:59:01 adeht: Not even Death and Taxes? 23:59:14 Fare: I think 99.99% of the time they are reliable, but manual pages don't claim any guarantees 23:59:30 nyef: well, I don't guarantee that my statement holds :) 23:59:40 Heh.