00:02:06 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:03:31 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:05:10 -!- Phooodus [foo@97-124-127-114.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:05:27 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-118-219.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:36 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 00:06:35 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:58 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:09:34 hello. how does one pronounce Mersenne? as in Mersenne prime 00:09:45 As in French. 00:09:46 With a silent 'r' 00:10:12 -!- ustunozgur [~ustun@pcozgur.ee.bilkent.edu.tr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:10:28 r like in merde 00:10:54 really? 00:10:55 ok. 00:10:56 wow. 00:11:00 Silent r? 00:11:08 lol 00:11:20 I just chose it as the name of our band. it seems to fit the music we are going to release. 00:11:34 it has nothing to do with the music. i just think it sounds nice 00:12:02 ustunozgur [~ustun@pcozgur.ee.bilkent.edu.tr] has joined #lisp 00:13:43 Not really silent, just hard for anglophone ears to hear. 00:14:09 French r can vary from tongue-tip trill to uvular trill to uvular fricative, and it can be voiced or unvoiced. 00:14:22 heh 00:14:45 it depends totally 00:15:07 if you want to roll the r on the tip or at the back of your tongue 00:15:44 mm. I can't really find an instance of that sound in english so far. 00:16:04 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.116] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:16:11 maybe in irish 00:16:17 English lost its trills around 1500 and its flaps around 1900. 00:16:22 or some welsh ? 00:16:39 Scottish English still has trills, but not Welsh or Irish English. (Welsh and Irish themselves have trills, yes.) 00:16:46 ok, now is the S in mersenne, hard s as in Scheisse? or soft S as in zoo 00:16:47 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-084-058-224-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:16:57 see, i translated your joke :) 00:17:10 The former, dto. 00:17:20 Lastly, the final -e is silent 00:17:35 it's hard 00:17:38 S 00:18:18 i'll have to practice it. i like having the hook of a band name that you can easily pronounce wrong. 00:18:38 anyone want to hear a song and see if The Mersenne Primes could have made it? :) 00:19:26 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-67.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit: I wish the toaster to be happy, too.] 00:20:20 thanks everyone for your help. I knew this would be the right place to ask that. 00:22:06 -!- slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:22:34 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:41 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:16:04 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:04 02:16:04 -!- names: ccl-logbot kpreid oconnore_ rickmode Phoodus quidnunc mattrepl mbohun ASau OmniMancer dralston drafael slyrus nus adu necroforest saikatc sepult fnordus dialtone hc_e dnolen ustunozgur ignas killerboy hadronzoo kejsaren HET3 Arelius malsyned pkhuong dreish billstclair legumbre PuffTheMagic dcooper8 parolang brandonedens Dodek AntiSpamMeta Taggnostr dmiles_afk madnificent ramus spacebat rbancroft Sergio` rsynnott scode vsync egn Jasko2 nyef Anarch dfox 02:16:04 -!- names: Krystof daniel___ marioxcc-AFK jordyd BeZerk antoszka bdowning bgs100 mathrick yacin fe[nl]ix hugod ianmcorvidae jsoft NNshag raison Yamazaki-kun porcelina bipt Demosthenes lisppaste ace4016 ikki jhalogen bhungy htk_ jleija stepnem hefner dlowe Adamant clayraat rstandy varjagg xan_ tychoish rswarbrick stassats` Modius_ easyE benny Ralith Draggor alexsuraci rullie lnostdal Algid TR2N mjonsson setheus moogleno1ph jsnell tic dto GammaRays dejones gz 02:16:04 -!- names: rootzlevel Quadrescence fihi09 hoeq_ Xantoz Borbus pr wlr smithzv ryepup neme4ta Younder phnglui sytse rread sellout reb REPLeffect Oddity Pepe_ drewc joga Amadiro frodef lukjad86 xinming bytecolor cataska Axioplase zoe holycow blitz_ johs CrazyEddy joast phadthai c|mell frontiers rapacity madsy _deepfire koollman m4thrick Stattrav cmatei Holcxjo blast_hardcheese nullman Aisling fractalis nuba schme jrockway adlai_ dym fgtech dalkvist cmm- p8m Tristam 02:16:04 -!- names: rahul spoofy zbigniew gonzojive WOG beach sykopomp kleppari _8david luis` nowhere_man koning_r1bot eno ASau`` delYsid emma tmitt [df]_ zmyrgel prip rikjasnon eldragon slather_ knobo araujo DrForr austinh guaq ``Erik arbscht Ginei_Morioka borisc bjorkintosh dmelani l_a_m housel savonarola boyscared cods Adrinael_ Patzy qed getha rlonstein ski Tabmow BrianRice ivan4th Xach Xof ecraven spiaggia leadnose christoph_debian retupmoca trittweiler Fade Tordek 02:16:04 -!- names: Khisanth ineiros anekos tltstc billitch Helheim_ wgl tsuru _3b` cpt_nemo stettberger srcerer Buganini plan9 djinni` dostoyevsky alexbobp bfein z0d p_l mornfall tvaalen antifuchs fda314925 pok PissedNumlock rotty kuwabara clop dcrawford guaqua jroes [df] djm franki^ timchen1` specbot minion tomaw ennen ironChicken KatrinaTheLamia hicx174 bakkdoor Ri- mtd foom krappie pragma_ kencausey froydnj yahooooo @Zhivago clog codemonkeyx lemoinem felipe herbieB 02:16:04 -!- names: Raptelan qebab kom_ Orest^bnc jyujin weirdo hohum fmu Darxus nicktastic _3b 02:16:30 -!- holycow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:17:09 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:18:32 holycow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 02:18:39 saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:14 <_3b> _8david: "most recent flash player" as in 10.0.something, or 10.1 betas? 02:22:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-208-82.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 02:25:51 Lycurgus [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:28:27 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-118-219.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 02:29:21 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:30:41 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:31:51 -!- holycow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:32:09 zelig [~zelig@189.60.249.49] has joined #lisp 02:32:13 -!- zelig [~zelig@189.60.249.49] has left #lisp 02:34:37 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:35:04 saikatc_ [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:30 holycow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:36 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:36:09 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:32 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:36:32 -!- saikatc_ is now known as saikatc 02:41:07 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 02:41:12 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:54 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:44:08 -!- jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:44:28 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-112-135.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:00 _deepfire: You wrote an ELF parser for CL, right? Do you remember if you could create arbitrarily-named sections in ELF? I can't remember right now... 02:53:45 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:54:28 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:32 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-167-135-102.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 02:54:37 hi, all. 02:55:13 bizarrefish: yo 02:55:23 sorry about earlier. irritating person was sitting on my left and decided to type crap on my kb(not that it's any less my fault for keeping that kind of company :-/) 02:56:26 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:57:43 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1177684015.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:57:47 p_l: ello 02:58:13 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082CA54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:59:00 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Client Quit] 03:02:49 airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:03 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:05:04 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 03:09:53 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:15:35 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 03:15:46 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:10 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.235] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:20 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.235] has joined #lisp 03:16:41 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:19:43 rstandy` [~rastandy@net-93-144-67-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 03:19:44 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 03:22:57 -!- brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-225.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:24:26 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:25:06 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 03:25:22 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:25:33 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:25:33 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-67-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:26:30 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:37 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 03:27:11 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:04 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:36:27 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:36:35 Good morning! 03:37:52 enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:42:14 -!- drafael [~tapio@130.216.93.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:44:01 good morning 03:44:15 bah, ldb is so depressing... 03:44:41 beach, where are you that this is morning? 03:45:19 oconnore_: Bordeaux. 03:45:35 oconnore_: It is still night to most people here. 03:46:12 4:46? 03:46:20 i see 03:46:23 Yeah. 03:46:46 i've been setting all my clocks to london time to get ready for my trip 03:46:51 so france is just +1 :) 03:47:44 Is the trip to London? 03:47:52 Southampton 03:48:50 Work or pleasure? 03:50:06 Work I guess. I took off a semester to be a guest in multi agent systems lab at the university there. 03:50:07 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 03:50:26 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.65.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:51:16 Are you at a university in france? 03:52:08 oconnore_: Yes, University of Bordeaux. 03:53:34 Neat, what department? 03:53:48 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:56 oconnore_: CS (or informatics if you prefer). 03:54:00 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.81] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:54:17 oconnore_: www.labri.fr 03:55:02 oconnore_: There are people here working on multi-agent systems applied to bioinformatics. 03:55:46 ysph [~user@adsl-157-159-26.mgm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:46 ... Using Lisp, I should add. 03:57:53 That sounds very interesting 03:58:09 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:14 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:58:32 So far I have only worked on process scheduling and resource allocation 03:58:52 That's what the Southampton project should be about, although I am currently held back by customs :P 03:59:08 Oh? 04:00:36 Well, I was denied entry on my first trip to England 04:00:45 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7BC2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:01:32 Really! Here in the rest of the EU, we kind of think the UK is another state of the US, given their politics. 04:02:36 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lruaomzskaayhjuq] has joined #lisp 04:02:42 Yes, it was very surprising to be under such intense scrutiny from my political parent! 04:03:06 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 04:04:27 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lruaomzskaayhjuq] has quit [Client Quit] 04:04:47 Are people in France paranoid about security issues as well? 04:05:04 I think that's what it was. The "underwear bomber" hit and they started changing all the rules. 04:05:26 Psh, British and American politics are incredibly different... 04:05:46 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-112-135.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 04:05:55 oconnore_: When things happen, they act for a while (remove all the trash cans in Paris and stuff like that). Then things sort of slide back to normal after a while. It is just so that they can tell the public that they are doing something. 04:06:23 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 04:06:41 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qwjznrzzlaycyjpe] has joined #lisp 04:06:46 That sound about right. 04:06:59 franki^: Yes, few people can top our religious right... 04:07:21 We might actually make some money if we figured out how to get them into a zoo :P 04:07:37 Exactly, try discussing gun ownership, the death penalty, religion, or a huge variety of other topics with some British and American people and the differences will become very obvious :) 04:08:18 *sykopomp* is feeling nostalgic. 04:08:38 Well, I do like my guns... :P 04:08:51 I remember coming in here after grabbing a copy of PCL and asking what a hash table was -- then someone suggested Gentle Intro. 04:08:54 <3 #lisp 04:09:50 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:10:26 just want to thank you guys for always being so helpful :) 04:10:47 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 04:11:35 sykopomp: You have been around for a year and a half or so though. 04:12:10 beach: that sounds about right. Maybe two years by now. 04:12:10 I should have discovered #lisp sooner. I learned lisp (wrongly) by building a mini c compiler with only the cltl. 04:12:20 it was disastrous. 04:12:22 sykopomp: Oh, right, 17.11.14 04:12:46 er, 07 04:12:52 beach: Gentle Intro was pretty much my introduction to programming. I spent a little while writing very very basic python scripts before that. 04:13:20 my code from that project looks like c++ with too many parenthesis 04:15:12 beach: Do you have a link to the publications of that bioinformatics group you mentioned earlier? 04:15:28 oconnore_: Hold on... 04:15:49 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:16:08 http://dept-info.labri.u-bordeaux.fr/~beurton/recherche.html 04:16:19 thanks 04:17:28 No problem. If you have any qustions, write directly to Marie Beurton. 04:17:59 Ok, great! 04:18:40 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:45 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 04:20:10 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:20:54 Anyone familiar with any RSS aggregators done in Lisp? 04:21:08 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:21:36 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:23:15 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:27 -!- malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:29:32 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 04:31:21 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-237-77.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:34:37 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:36:16 cognizant-cog [~chatzilla@24.143.26.144] has joined #lisp 04:36:31 OT question about GIT (sorry). When I get a conflict, it says "fix conflicst and then commit the result", so I fix the conflicts and then I run git commit on the file in question, and it says "cannot do a partial commit during a merge." But when I run git commit without an argument it says "needs merge", and when I run git merge on the file it says "You are in the middle of a conflict merge". What to do? 04:37:22 I'm hopeless with git, but what does "git commit -a" do? 04:38:28 hefner: That seems to have worked. Thanks! Should have thought about that. 04:39:12 beach: you need to add the file. Git commit -a adds all changes. 04:39:16 malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:49 but if you are making small, tactical commits what you want to do is `git add ' 04:40:31 sledge [~sledge@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 04:40:34 sykopomp: I guess I don't understand why I would add a file that already exists. 04:40:47 beach: you're not adding the file, you're adding the changes. 04:41:08 if you've changed 10 files, and you only want to commit the changes to that one file, you do git add && git commit 04:41:21 you're adding the changes in that file to the staging area, to be committed. 04:41:28 not adding the file to the repository. 04:42:13 I see (sort of). It's still a bit magic to me. I guess I need to read up on GIT. 04:42:25 pro git is pretty good about explaining stuff, imo 04:42:38 http://progit.org/book/ It's like the PCL of the git world :) 04:42:54 sykopomp: Ah, excellent. I'll have it ordered. 04:43:00 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-35-217-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:44 sykopomp: Oh, it's all online? 04:43:51 Erm, I somehow keep freezing SBCL trying to manipulate packages. 04:43:52 gigamonkey, memo from fusss: can you please add a link to the table of contents, prev/next chapters, and home to the online version of the book? 04:43:55 you can buy it, but there's a full online version. 04:44:04 For instance: (unintern :markup (find-package :com.gigamonkeys.frank)) 04:44:12 sykopomp: Thank! 04:44:12 or trying to do a DELETE-PACKAGE 04:44:16 beach: np 04:44:27 beach: http://tinyurl.com/amazonprogit for the amazon page. 04:44:41 -!- cognizant-cog [~chatzilla@24.143.26.144] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100214235838]] 04:44:52 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:45 Axius [~hi@92.84.14.222] has joined #lisp 04:46:52 -!- Axius [~hi@92.84.14.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48:07 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 04:48:07 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:53:02 benny [~benny@i577A7748.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:54:56 gigamonkey: I think there's a known bug with sbcl and packages. 04:58:04 gigamonkey: I think this is the one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/511072 04:58:06 Hmmmm. 04:58:50 And I've had the same issue upon re-evaluating defpackage forms. 04:59:09 Sounds very similar. 05:00:25 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:01:46 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:53 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:02:58 Say I have a list (("sometag" val1 val2 val3)), can I use assoc to get the ("sometag" ...) sub-list? 05:03:13 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikatc] 05:03:54 fractalis: Sure, you just have to use the right :test keyword argument. 05:04:11 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 05:04:18 clhs assoc 05:04:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_assocc.htm 05:05:00 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:06:14 -!- malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:06:57 beach: Thanks! I should have gone to the HS first, was looking at some CMU site. Wish "Lisp Assoc" in google would return a link to the HS first 05:08:00 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08:11 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@79.102.0.186] has joined #lisp 05:08:25 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:08:49 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:30 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:11:46 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:12:00 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:05 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:38 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.179.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:05 wlr_ [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:02 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:16:26 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:17:29 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:18:05 wlr__ [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:31 -!- wlr_ [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:22:51 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:23:01 xinming [~hyy@218.73.142.71] has joined #lisp 05:23:57 -!- Lycurgus [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 05:24:46 -!- wlr__ [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25:05 wlr__ [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:14 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440197.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 05:27:36 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:29:18 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:31:45 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:33:14 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: .] 05:36:30 fractalis: that's why I google "clhs assoc" or whatever the term I need a lookup for 05:36:39 (if I don't already have the hyperspec open) 05:50:19 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-211-244.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:37 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:39 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 05:51:44 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-133-76-237.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:57:59 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 05:59:19 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-211-244.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:00:41 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.120.147] has joined #lisp 06:06:15 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-37.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:13:07 -!- Algid [~dash@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13:32 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:14:04 Algid [~dash@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:41 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:16:57 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 06:17:50 -!- htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:06 -!- drewc [~drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:12 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.120.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:21:18 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 06:21:47 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:22:05 gibsonf1 [~user@c-76-126-33-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:31 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:42 Does anyone know MrSpec, or is MrSpec here? (ref: http://paste.lisp.org/display/95121#2 ) 06:23:27 I'm battling the exact same bug with clsql 06:23:33 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:34 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-157-159-26.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:28:38 gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 06:28:43 malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:30 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:30:07 gibsonf1: mrSpec is often here, but not right now. You can leave a memo with minion if you like. 06:30:15 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:27 minion? 06:32:44 beach: do you have mrSpec's email? 06:33:08 minion: memo for mrSpec: gibsonf1 was looking for you, so I told him how to leave a memo with minion. 06:33:08 Remembered. I'll tell mrSpec when he/she/it next speaks. 06:33:11 gibsonf1: minion is a bot that can store memos and informs the receivee 06:33:39 cool (I don't get around much, obviously :) 06:33:45 err, receiver 06:34:03 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.120.147] has joined #lisp 06:34:41 minion: memo for mrSpec: please email fred@streamfocus.com about the clsql bug http://paste.lisp.org/display/95121 - especially if you've solved it!!! 06:34:42 Remembered. I'll tell mrSpec when he/she/it next speaks. 06:36:02 I've spent several days configuring ubuntu on virtualbox on my xp laptop and this clsql bug is the last item prior to victory 06:36:02 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:36:17 (hopefully) 06:36:53 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:18 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:43:46 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:45:15 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:16 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-82-45.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:04 -!- gko [~gko@211.22.47.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:51:56 -!- malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:59:58 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:49 malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:51 mega1 [~quassel@53d8316e.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:05:15 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:06:18 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 07:06:33 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-82-45.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 07:07:31 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 07:12:02 07:12:02 #lisp [23:06] 07:12:02 *** hefner (~hefner@ppp-61-90-82-45.revip.asianet.co.th) has joined channel 07:12:02 #lisp 07:12:05 *** Ralith (~ralith@216.162.199.202) has joined channel #lisp [23:07] 07:12:08 ERC> minion: memo for mrSpec: Good news re: clsql bug - I fixed the problem on my system by deleting all old versions of clsql and uffi etc. 07:13:14 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 07:13:18 good morning 07:13:50 minion: memo for mrSpec: Good news re: clsql bug - I fixed the problem on my system by deleting all old versions of clsql and uffi etc. 07:13:50 Remembered. I'll tell mrSpec when he/she/it next speaks. 07:13:56 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:16 -!- gibsonf1 [~user@c-76-126-33-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:35 -!- enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 07:17:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:18:22 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:21:07 saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:34 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 07:25:34 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:02 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-146-224.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:31:06 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 07:31:12 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qwjznrzzlaycyjpe] has left #lisp 07:31:34 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:31:55 saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:29 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0832.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:34:29 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44:39 spradnyesh [~pradyus@121.242.102.208] has joined #lisp 07:45:46 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:49:39 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50:49 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 07:50:52 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:03 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:56:47 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:01:12 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 08:02:21 Adlai [~Adlai@93-173-53-75.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 08:03:10 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@93-173-53-75.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Changing host] 08:03:10 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:03:45 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:04:26 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:48 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:12:09 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 08:14:49 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:14:52 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:08 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:34 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:16:39 saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:13 nostoi [~nostoi@80.31.170.49] has joined #lisp 08:17:24 splittist [~513ec9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-mhwkxplkqpnschyq] has joined #lisp 08:17:30 morning 08:23:16 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:20 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:23 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 08:24:08 -!- splittist [~513ec9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-mhwkxplkqpnschyq] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:24:08 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:24:09 fiveop [~fiveop@g229082194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:26:32 trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:27:12 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 08:27:27 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@80.31.170.49] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:27:30 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-kmdvlcjhrwyhxubs] has joined #lisp 08:29:36 flip213 [~flip@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 08:30:06 Reaver2 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 08:30:34 Hello ... Regarding the lisp-meeting in vienna this weekend - will there be another one in the near future (1-2 months)? I won't make it because of a birthday. 08:31:03 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:31:36 demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 08:31:41 -!- demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 08:32:58 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:33:29 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:31 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:36:15 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:38:09 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has joined #lisp 08:38:33 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: night] 08:40:02 splittist [~513ec9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-cqhtgrumyhwmfoyv] has joined #lisp 08:41:42 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:42:03 racecondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 08:44:26 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:48:41 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-35-217-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:52:43 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:56:53 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:02:32 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-68-183.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:38 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:06:00 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754294.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:21 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.120.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:54 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 09:08:46 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:09:22 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:09:48 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 09:10:02 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:11:49 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 09:12:22 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:22:27 a-s [~user@2001:15c0:66a3:2:214:85ff:feea:c35a] has joined #lisp 09:22:53 bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:46 <_deepfire> minion, memo for p_l: Yes, yo can name them any way you want, except you might 09:27:47 Remembered. I'll tell p_l when he/she/it next speaks. 09:28:09 <_deepfire> minion, memo for p_l: want to avoid conflicting with sections who have predefined meaning. 09:28:09 Remembered. I'll tell p_l when he/she/it next speaks. 09:28:09 -!- a-s [~user@2001:15c0:66a3:2:214:85ff:feea:c35a] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:40 _deepfire: acknowledged 09:28:41 p_l, memo from _deepfire: Yes, yo can name them any way you want, except you might 09:28:41 p_l, memo from _deepfire: want to avoid conflicting with sections who have predefined meaning. 09:29:01 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@121.242.102.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:29:02 <_deepfire> Ok, that was botched in my ways, sorry, I just got up and feel sickly. 09:29:17 <_deepfire> *many 09:29:27 _deepfire: I also think that for what I wanted to do, .note would be actually standard-comformant 09:30:09 <_deepfire> p_l, I have little of an idea about section semantics, tbh. 09:30:10 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-89-223-163-103.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:31:06 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gaqcxbowepmgmiue] has joined #lisp 09:31:09 .note is reserved for compiler :) 09:31:41 it has a compiler signature and then arbitrary data 09:32:33 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gaqcxbowepmgmiue] has left #lisp 09:32:57 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-eewgewxtgldzgnkw] has joined #lisp 09:33:00 perfectly correct for intended use by me :D 09:33:05 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-eewgewxtgldzgnkw] has left #lisp 09:34:19 *p_l* still entertains the notion of using ELF for core and FASL storage 09:34:51 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nzgizaazigcexgdt] has joined #lisp 09:35:40 it's never been clear to me why that isn't done, except for unsubstantiated claims that the linker doesn't do what it's supposed to do 09:35:47 (or the loader, rather) 09:36:26 -!- spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-209-97.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:36:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:51 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229082194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 09:38:36 <_deepfire> hefner, there's a reason why ECL cannot dump cores. 09:39:10 <_deepfire> I don't claim to know it, though. 09:40:21 _deepfire: it isn't designed to? 09:41:15 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:41:18 <_deepfire> Obviously, that must be one of the reasons, yes. 09:42:28 hmm.... actually dumping a core from ECL is nearly possible, since it keeps enough runtime data to reconstruct one 09:42:42 <_deepfire> Technically, one should be able to use ELF as a dumb wrap, and that should be just enough. 09:43:30 spacebat [~akhasha@ppp121-45-123-182.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:47 drafael [~tapio@ip-118-90-132-220.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:44:46 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-53.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:46:48 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:47:07 Well, ECL can produce effective clean cores. 09:47:28 That is a core dumped before running anything in it. 09:48:59 <_deepfire> Yeah, just asdf:make-build. 09:49:26 -!- drafael [~tapio@ip-118-90-132-220.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:49:45 *hefner* doesn't use asdf:make-build, can't recall why, except that it caused trouble. 09:49:48 <_deepfire> With some empty system. Although there's got to be a cleaner way. 09:50:37 isn't that basically replicating the ecl binary? 09:51:47 <_deepfire> hefner, yeah, like Zhivago said. 09:52:15 *p_l* was looking for a way to use LLVM in non-JIT mode for CL compilation, that's why the research into ELF 09:52:27 <_deepfire> hefner, so c:build-program? 09:53:26 yeah. 09:56:35 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.0] has joined #lisp 09:58:19 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:49 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-68-183.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:01:16 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:03:23 _deepfire: for PE I will get around with resources, I guess (though my use of them would piss off some people used to resource editing...) 10:03:34 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:04:02 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:50 -!- Reaver2 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:05:34 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:08:50 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:09:13 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:09:24 http://www.urbanape.com/images/save_lisp4.gif 10:09:36 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:08 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 10:11:21 hmm, i should get that as a sticker and put on my bike... 10:11:48 Dodek: LOL 10:12:08 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-68-183.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:42 -!- saikatc is now known as sheena 10:13:01 hefner: You can build new binaries with static linkage or dynamic libraries set up for linkage-upon-execution, iirc. 10:13:16 -!- sheena is now known as saikat 10:18:14 anyone from vienna here? 10:18:51 there should be many #lisp people in vienna this weekend 10:24:04 -!- saikat [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 10:24:24 saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:57 -!- saikatc is now known as saikat 10:26:34 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:52 -!- saikat [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:26:53 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.16] has joined #lisp 10:27:15 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:54 flip213: antifuchs is from vienna 10:32:20 *antifuchs* hears his name 10:32:22 hi there, flip213! 10:32:42 tcr: thanks 10:32:53 flip213: what's up (: 10:32:56 Hello antifuchs! Regarding the lisp-meeting in vienna this weekend - will there be another one in the near future (1-2 months)? I won't make it because of a birthday. 10:33:52 this internationally, probably not - but a few guys from the metalab are organizing a regular fp/clojure/lisp meeting, to start soon (prototype name "lambdaheads") 10:34:16 the more regular lispers are attending, the stronger the lisp focus, of course (: 10:34:22 that would be interesting ... 10:34:29 do you have a mailing list for that? 10:34:55 or something else I could use to get alerted as soon as you know the date/time/location? 10:34:58 no specialized one yet - I think it'll be announced on metalab-announce@ and metalab@lists.metalab.at 10:37:10 Ok, I'll subscribe there. Thank you, looking forward to seeing you soon! 10:37:36 flip213: many of us will be in vienna the whole weekend 10:37:45 me too! 10:37:55 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-68-183.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:38:12 pix4 [~pixel@dslb-092-073-172-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:18 flip213: we plan to sight-see vienna at sunday, you may show up there if that suits you more 10:38:33 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 10:39:52 but I don't think there'll be much time for tech-talk and explanations. 10:40:06 I don't want to spoil the experience for the visitors ... 10:40:13 much better to harm the locals ;-) 10:41:34 flip213: Also notice that we start early at saturday, perhaps you can manage to come by for two or three hours. 10:42:45 Start is at 12:30, I believe? 10:43:15 I need to be home at 13:00 .... so unless you're active by 09:00 it'll be tough. 10:43:28 Note that I have a bit of distance to manage, too. 10:44:21 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:44:35 How long do you think you'll be in the MetaLab? 10:44:50 Is there a chance from 18:00 or 19:00 onwards? 10:45:04 Don't think so, "Vienna waits for you" 10:45:11 "Haben Sie Wien schon bei Nacht gesehen" etc 10:47:06 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-54-157.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 10:48:39 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-84-225.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:49:04 pjb [~t@95.124.93.115] has joined #lisp 10:49:42 -!- splittist [~513ec9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-cqhtgrumyhwmfoyv] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:53:47 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-68-183.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:20 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:55:43 bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-133-76-237.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:03 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 11:03:16 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 11:04:59 Could anyone recommend a good beginner-book for learning LISP (for the experienced programmer)? 11:06:10 tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.54] has joined #lisp 11:06:18 Common Lisp that it 11:06:32 j4K0b: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/ 11:06:56 j4K0b: I'm joking... 11:06:57 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.16] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:07:01 -!- tfb_ is now known as tfb 11:07:16 i dont get it 11:07:31 minion, tell j4K0b about gentle 11:07:32 j4K0b: direct your attention towards gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 11:07:37 er 11:07:42 sorry, I read "inexperienced" 11:07:49 minion, pcl? 11:07:50 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 11:08:30 j4K0b, both of these are good books, although PCL is probably 11:08:40 thanks :) 11:08:55 better suited to somebody who already has a programming background 11:09:02 no problem 11:09:23 also, the hyperspec is a great reference 11:09:35 so if you're wondering how multiple-value-bind behaves, just check the spec: 11:09:38 clhs multiple-value-bind 11:09:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_multip.htm 11:10:01 I currently have my nose in the hyperspec, only reason I spammed the URL ;) 11:10:01 "clhs" = Common Lisp HyperSpec 11:10:16 umm well, currently there's alot of things im wondering about regarding Lisp :) But i'll look in to it, thanks alot 11:12:34 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:12:47 j4K0b: there is clojure, if your background is in java 11:13:58 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 11:14:14 whats the comparison between java and clojure? 11:14:30 there is no comparison 11:14:36 clojure is implemented in java 11:14:42 j4K0b: it's just a lispy front end to java 11:15:46 doesn't compile to JVM bytecode, not to java? 11:17:30 bytecolor: would you call ABCL a lispy front end to java, too? 11:18:11 morphling: ABCL is common lisp, yes? clojure is it's own thing 11:18:58 bytecolor: would that be java programming with lisp syntax? 11:19:20 bytecolor, Clojure isn't really java with a lisp syntax 11:19:20 who is asdf's maintainer nowadays? 11:19:58 I wonder why LOAD-SYSTEM, COMPILE-SYSTEM and TEST-SYSTEM does not specify &ALLOW-OTHER-KEYS? 11:20:20 levente_meszaros, just pass :allow-other-keys :) 11:20:23 keyword args are already saved in the OP in ORIGINAL-INITARGS 11:20:36 Adlai, holy sh*t :) 11:20:58 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:05 well Clojure adds some base classes and helper function that makes it more than just a new ivokation syntax of java. but it could be construed that way still 11:21:15 functions* 11:21:26 clhs 3.4.1.4.1 11:21:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_dada.htm 11:22:32 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:22:43 levente_meszaros, I'm not sure I'm a fan of this "feature", but it's there :D 11:22:49 splittist [~513ec9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-pbvvcwvwslifvtzn] has joined #lisp 11:22:59 *splittist* sobs 11:23:29 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:24:02 clojure also uses opcodes that Java doesn't, making Java decompilers break or spew unusable code :D 11:26:14 p_l: i been trying to understand if indoing that if it is able to make the byt4ecode more effecient than if someone wrote in java 11:26:32 p_l, what do these opcodes do? 11:26:56 p_l: more of an acedemic question than a critsism or retorical statement 11:27:20 p_l: if JVM was specifically designed for Java, then how comes Java doesn't use all of its features? 11:27:20 p_l: my wondering about it 11:27:51 Dodek: JVM itself is a much older project than some people think, I guess 11:28:15 i am working ona lisp->java.. and i am trying to understand if i need to sell myself on a lisp->bytecode still 11:28:22 mrbug [~mrbug@cpe-67-241-10-210.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:28:29 dmiles_afk: they aren't necessary for java and are vilified :P 11:28:40 like GOTO 11:28:46 good example 11:29:02 sometimes javac will use GOTO .. not often but sometimes 11:29:26 ah right, I remember PCL mentioning how f2j uses a dummy class and then processes the bytecode to insert GOTOs :) 11:29:30 but one has to write spefiiac java to inspire it 11:29:41 dmiles_afk: but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a rare optimization effect, right? 11:29:55 ussually its when a finally is involved 11:30:26 or might be when the user uses a: continue somlabel; 11:31:19 I personally found C# (and .NET altogether) to be less constraining than Java, and tend to avoid Java where possible 11:31:24 the in the case of a b1: while { b2: while { .... continue b1; } (false); } (false); 11:32:14 indeed i been programming java 10 years and C# only 3... i can do way more in C# 11:32:44 minion, memo for antifuchs: how long will saturday take? any chance for 18:00? 11:32:45 Remembered. I'll tell antifuchs when he/she/it next speaks. 11:33:04 C# is much better! (/me yes used "better"/"best") 11:33:21 flip213: oh, sorry, saturday is on as long as people are around - I have to leave around 19:00 though 11:33:22 antifuchs, memo from flip213: how long will saturday take? any chance for 18:00? 11:33:29 <_8david> uhm, what? javac uses the goto instruction all the time. 11:34:01 hmm, okay .. maybe I'll try to get there ... thank you very much 11:34:01 _8david: yeah i had seen it alot.. one i wish it used more often was GOSUB (JSR) 11:34:16 -!- flip213 [~flip@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: "(/quit)"] 11:34:18 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:34:33 _8david: the jump to a subroutine 11:34:34 necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:02 (often the bytecode would be smaller) 11:35:57 if i do try{try{try{try{..}finally{}..}finally{}..}finally{}..}finally{} the compiler makes a real mess of it 11:38:03 my goal is to find out if i have to emit bytecode (i dont mind even doing it wth ASMs inline printing) or if there is ussually a way to do effectively from java 11:38:16 ASMifier 11:39:20 clojure seems like its doing the smartest thing going to the bytecode . but i wonder if it could ever emit .java files to make the same bytecode 11:40:03 maybe not the "same" but close enough 11:41:41 compiling to java? 11:41:44 why would that be desirable? 11:42:53 well sometimes a languge that emits bytecode .. if you decompile it . you realize that a java programmer might have done something better 11:43:09 after you spot that.. you might imporve the compiler 11:43:26 or decide instead ot make something a java utility class 11:43:47 *hefner* always wondered how dmiles_afk is so adept at using IRC while away from his keyboard 11:44:20 levente_meszaros: I think they should 11:44:28 dmiles_afk: I think you mean compiler, not language. 11:45:15 improve the intermedate language sure 11:45:16 and decompilation is typically not an accurate representation of the original code. 11:45:22 ...what 11:45:25 okay someone else do this. 11:45:42 improve the intermedate language sure = the language you do right before the emittion 11:45:48 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 11:45:53 i have written compilers for the jvm 11:46:36 i just sometimes worried an imporvemnent is to be made. its easier to spot after one looks at the whle program 11:46:39 tcr, are you referring to my question a couple of days back? :-) 11:47:07 Ralith: i know its not the same as the bytecode 11:47:16 levente_meszaros: No the one about LOAD-SYSTEM 11:47:31 Ralith: but the IR i translate the bytecode into before i translate to java is accurate 11:47:53 (and visa versa) 11:48:42 a very typical problem that can arise is the boxing of soem java object into a single hjolder class 11:49:06 in the middle of loops 11:49:10 levente_meszaros: I'll propose that change 11:49:29 tcr, thanks! 11:53:53 hefner: maybe the same way I kept being logged into channels while being offline? ;-) 11:54:38 often a compiler for some language will let the original author use a under typed object.. so the compiler has to compile in typechecks 11:55:03 or hit conversion API.. that a java programmer might not 11:56:07 often hit that sanity API in the midle of tight loops 11:58:52 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:58:57 pjb` [~t@95.124.11.78] has joined #lisp 11:59:12 pjb`` [~t@95.124.11.78] has joined #lisp 11:59:52 take line 344 of http://larkc.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/larkc/trunk/platform/src/com/cyc/cycjava/cycl/cache.java?revision=298&view=markup 12:00:02 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:00:05 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 12:00:13 they if they wanted could have just emitted bytecode 12:00:15 -!- pjb [~t@95.124.93.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:00:19 Borkdude [~Borkdude@195-241-146-40.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 12:00:25 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:00:30 and never would that lines sillynes be spottd 12:00:47 -!- pjb` [~t@95.124.11.78] has left #lisp 12:01:13 pjb [~t@95.124.11.78] has joined #lisp 12:01:26 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:01:49 Ralith: so in that case i guess i am saying the translator can be imporoved 12:02:18 I'm logged twice from the same erc instance! :-) 12:02:25 -!- pjb`` [~t@95.124.11.78] has quit [Client Quit] 12:02:42 compilers have various silly moments... yesterday we were shown how C compilers love to do something like: ba ; nop; despite the fact that the nop is completely unnecessary (at least from what I found out) 12:03:17 Sometimes it's good for alinment when jumping to the following address. 12:03:19 though it was funny compiling one of the examples with -xO5 and getting a program that was basically just exit(0) 12:03:55 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:04:01 Sometimes it's just done to avoid shifting code when a bigger jump offset is needed. 12:04:17 pjb: I guess alignment would count, though I suspect it would be more of cache line alignment (it was SPARC) 12:04:33 Yes, cache lines. 12:04:36 <_3b> don't some cpu execute the instruction after the branch anyway due to pipelining? 12:05:16 splittist: !!! 12:05:19 in my Coco2.. we had dirrect page.. so it made you align your code to use DP based isntucions 12:06:04 dunno, I still wonder how I once got >20 nops at the end of a function then three register-register adds (and no, it wasn't followed by return) 12:06:10 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:06:23 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:57 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 12:08:31 not that i have seen it.. but i can imagine a switch statemet that multiples with a supplied value ;P 12:09:01 tcr: ...): 12:09:10 (generating a few nops) 12:09:44 splittist: bah that sucks 12:11:30 tcr: On the plus side, jr is going to be OK - he's just not so good atm. 12:11:44 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-68-183.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:11:47 <_3b> p_l: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay_slot ? 12:12:23 _3b: nice - fixes my misunderstanding, thanks 12:12:33 splittist: influentia? 12:12:35 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:12:58 I had that last week, lots of vit-c helped :-) 12:13:30 tcr: some sort of virus. Glad you've recovered (: 12:13:32 I suspect the fact that I concentrated on MMIX and Alpha caused my lack of notice of a delay slot - both have none 12:14:02 splittist: Ok if it's a virus, it's not to be taken lightly 12:16:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:19:09 good afternoon 12:19:34 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-89-223-163-103.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:20:35 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 12:22:02 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:25:07 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-128-121.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:08 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nzgizaazigcexgdt] has left #lisp 12:28:06 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:28:46 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:02 How would you name a slot in a FRAME that contains information about local-variables, locally bound special variables, catch tags, etc 12:31:20 environment? 12:32:38 environment-body-frame_afk 12:32:44 oops 12:33:43 slots can be away from keyboard too 12:33:53 heh 12:34:04 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bdnptcavhgwpfqto] has joined #lisp 12:34:19 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:34:39 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-128-121.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:34:55 (since "body" implies that its unwind contains multiple) 12:35:23 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066166.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 12:35:38 -!- bhungy [~bhungy@unaffiliated/bhungy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:36:13 stassats: I'm going to rewrite the backend specific stuff for the debugger; would be cool if you could give me a hand once I'm finished to update the backends 12:37:01 would be glad to help 12:37:38 in the evening, I just decided to spend daytime differently :-) 12:37:48 bhungy [~bhungy@unaffiliated/bhungy] has joined #lisp 12:38:36 i should be here at the time of your evening 12:38:37 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@net-93-144-67-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:49 rstandy`` [~rastandy@net-93-144-67-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 12:39:51 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:43:15 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:43:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:14 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:44:28 simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:45:06 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:45:19 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-82-45.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:58 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:51:44 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:51:44 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:53:00 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 12:53:59 Alabaman [~badgerfac@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:33 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 13:00:53 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 13:06:36 airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:38 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.5] has joined #lisp 13:07:44 whoppix [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:09:04 -!- whoppix [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:20 Amadiro_ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:09:41 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:10:04 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:41 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:11:51 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-82-45.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:12:00 -!- Amadiro_ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Client Quit] 13:12:22 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:12:58 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:40 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440249.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:16:05 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:17:25 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:20:07 -!- mrbug [~mrbug@cpe-67-241-10-210.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: mrbug] 13:20:52 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-182-92.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:20:57 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:23:54 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:25:23 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.121.119] has joined #lisp 13:27:17 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:27:31 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [Quit: will-it-boot?] 13:29:01 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-89-223-160-21.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:29:36 lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 13:30:00 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:30:41 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:07 X-02 [~schopenha@91.106.206.16] has joined #lisp 13:31:47 brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-225.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:19 bah. common lisp was briefly back at the top of the leaderboard. 13:33:35 hefner: ? 13:34:05 beach: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/rankings.php 13:35:40 smackarang [~user@91.190.137.236] has joined #lisp 13:35:52 carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.130] has joined #lisp 13:36:48 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:09 Thanks! 13:37:56 there's also http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/language_profile.php?lang=Common+Lisp 13:38:32 oh, cool. I wondered if there was something like that. 13:38:34 there's no comparison between the languages, though 13:38:52 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:24 *ASau``* sighs. 13:40:05 Why, tell me, WHY is it so hard to understand the separation between build and test stages? 13:41:04 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 13:41:41 *Xach* is still struggling to understand the separation between read time, macroexpand time, run time, and lunch time. 13:42:28 oh, it's lunch time! 13:42:43 -!- dmelani [~dmelani@c83-253-52-14.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 13:43:10 not to mention party time, miller time, bullet time.. 13:43:44 it's nearing coffee time for me 13:45:03 funny how few Java submissions are in the top 100 of the leaderboard. I didn't even notice until I skipped to page 8 and saw a pile of them. 13:46:01 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 13:46:36 hello 13:46:48 pjb: ping 13:46:53 hefner: it's well know, that java is a programming language for AI. 13:47:21 fe[nl]ix: pong 13:48:20 pjb: some time ago you pasted some links to Lisp-in-C libraries 13:48:24 do you still have those ? 13:48:51 Lpp? 13:49:02 yes 13:49:05 there was another one too 13:49:24 wvdschel [~wim@zeus.ugent.be] has joined #lisp 13:49:37 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:40 http://www.interhack.net/projects/lpp 13:50:45 ILFIVE: Library of lisp objects in C http://dan.corlan.net/software/ilfive.html ; InteLib: Lisp programming within a C++ project. http://www.intelib.org/ 13:51:03 I guess that was those ones. 13:51:22 bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:38 thanks 13:53:48 pjb: would you recommend any of them ? 13:54:21 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:23 -!- bhungy [~bhungy@unaffiliated/bhungy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55:51 It would depend on the project, but InteLib looks funny. Lpp would probably be better accepted by C++ programmers. 13:56:11 InteLib plays tricks with templates ;-) 13:57:19 hefner_ [~hefner@ppp-58-11-45-241.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:57:25 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-82-45.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:58:10 Jag är inte lib 13:58:18 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.54] has joined #lisp 13:58:27 -!- hefner_ is now known as hefner 13:59:05 :D 13:59:20 pjb: have you actually used any of tme ? 13:59:25 *them 13:59:37 No, I was surrounded, I had to use the stl. :-( 13:59:40 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:32 bah I'd wish one could specify the tag with which a named structure is named independently from the structure's name 14:00:38 But I used boost::bind heavily :-) 14:00:50 hmm, lpp doesn't compile 14:01:01 -!- brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-225.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:01:10 jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-237-77.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:21 Isn't the same kind of evil as when people try to program C in Lisp? 14:07:47 tcr: the situation is not symetrical! It's Lisp! :-) 14:08:37 On the other hand, if you can use Lpp or InteLib, you probably can use ecl instead. 14:09:31 *hefner* looked at lpp the other day, thought it looked silly 14:09:55 I just need a reader actually 14:11:36 bobbysmith007 [~russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:19 mrbug [~mrbug@server.cvf.biz] has joined #lisp 14:13:24 hefner: http://www.intelib.org/intro.html is even sillier 14:15:11 oh, my. 14:16:16 "just recall that comma is an operator in C++ and can be overloaded for user-invented data types" 14:16:50 almost as nice as a programmable reader 14:17:10 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bdnptcavhgwpfqto] has left #lisp 14:17:12 CAN it? 14:17:12 it's turing-complete, it can't be bad! 14:17:18 (the comma be over-ridden, I mean) 14:17:42 rsynnott: well, this question sounds to me like 14:17:51 "can you build houses with swiss army knife?" 14:17:55 well of course you can 14:18:19 *rsynnott* never knew the comma could be overridden in C++ 14:18:33 I think it's the sort of thing I'd sleep easier NOT knowing, really. Ugh 14:18:38 rsynnott: T2& operator, (const T1& a, T2& b); 14:19:46 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:56 *staring crazily in disbelief* 14:22:21 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 14:22:54 hmm 14:23:33 i wonder if C++ guarantees that a is evaluated before b in that context 14:23:40 for || and && i think it does 14:23:48 but you can't short-circuit 14:24:11 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vovtlczmllfuigiy] has joined #lisp 14:24:14 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vovtlczmllfuigiy] has left #lisp 14:25:33 brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-213.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:53 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:26:19 tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:30 *hefner* hates trying to convince SBCL that things really are fixnums and won't overflow 14:27:14 *Xach* likes the modular arithmetic 14:28:03 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:30:13 *hefner* does a little inlining, some type declarations, squashing some notes at (speed 3), is baffled to find his runtime triples 14:30:14 hefner, sb-ext:truly-the 14:31:44 *hefner* realizes why, feels stupid. 14:32:42 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:39:20 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:40:57 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-133-76-237.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 14:42:20 billstclair [~billstcla@p-74-209-20-84.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:20 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-74-209-20-84.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:42:20 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:45:38 bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-133-76-237.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:31 wow, intelib also has a Lisp->C++ translator 14:46:32 cool 14:47:14 maus [~maus@123.20.6.37] has joined #lisp 14:47:39 Good evening! 14:49:20 fiveop [~fiveop@g229082194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:33 maus: Good morning! 14:49:34 vng [~user@123.20.117.48] has joined #lisp 14:50:06 Hello ryepup! 14:50:10 Hello #lisp 14:50:26 Hello vng! 14:50:35 hello maus 14:52:40 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 14:54:01 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:55:06 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 14:55:07 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 14:55:58 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:56:04 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.121.119] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:04 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:19 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-133-76-237.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:56:31 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:34 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:45 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-42-2.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:57 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 15:08:39 -!- brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-213.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:02 brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-213.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:11 <_deepfire> Heh, "Building functional techniques into an object-oriented system.", paper dated by 2000AD. 15:11:21 -!- Borkdude [~Borkdude@195-241-146-40.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:11:58 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:12:13 http://imgur.com/osJZJ 15:13:52 spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@122.167.83.196] has joined #lisp 15:14:05 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:46 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:16:23 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:36 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:38 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:20:49 <_deepfire> I wonder if intelib 15:21:02 demmeln1 [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 15:21:05 -!- demmeln1 [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 15:21:26 <_deepfire> 's author realizes that anything he wants to do with intelib is more simply achievable using ECL. 15:22:32 not if your objectives include "be a pure-C++ lib" or "don't sneak in a garbage collector" 15:22:58 fe[nl]ix: knuth? 15:23:22 Axius [~hi@92.85.217.93] has joined #lisp 15:24:19 _deepfire clearly, these hacks are done to conform to silly "requirements" from PHBs. 15:25:02 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:11 blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:54 pjb: for such hacks, LinJ looked much nicer 15:26:20 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-45-241.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:26:28 Not always. FC++ is a really interesting project, and arguably more interesting than the STL way. 15:26:37 pjb, they might be self-imposed, too 15:27:20 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:22 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:29:34 there should be a capture on knuth's picture "I'm doing it right" 15:30:04 and a caption? 15:31:11 -!- smackarang [~user@91.190.137.236] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:38 http://imgur.com/DFM5L ? 15:33:06 heheh 15:33:18 Xach: ... bloody truth. Someone kick the guy who optimized out control panels ;_; 15:33:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-182-92.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:33:31 does wigflip support imgur now, then? 15:33:36 it does, directly. 15:33:58 for output, that is. input support is by image url. 15:36:10 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:37:10 j4k0b [~j4k0b@1503024517.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:38:22 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:26 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has joined #lisp 15:40:04 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:22 <_deepfire> Oh god.. the lisp in http://www.croco.net/croco/papers/vlasenko_stolyarov_2009.pdf is awful. 15:40:52 <_deepfire> Stolyarov is intelib's mastermind, for the record. 15:41:44 <_deepfire> Somebody mail avst@cs.msu.ru fast, save the man. 15:42:37 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:42:58 *cmm-* has a deem recollection of the "croco" character as a kook 15:43:42 can't see what's wrong with just ignoring their stuff, anyway :) 15:43:54 -!- brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-213.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:22 brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-213.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:37 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: bye bye] 15:47:01 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066166.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:50:28 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 15:51:48 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:52:57 _deepfire: I agree, it's horrible 15:55:35 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:55:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:58:29 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:05 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has joined #lisp 15:59:18 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D9D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:03 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 16:00:03 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 16:00:03 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 16:01:46 danly [~danleslie@S010600259c4d3771.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:22 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:06 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:07:17 bytecolor [~user@32.157.19.233] has joined #lisp 16:09:28 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:47 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:58 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: :from work :to home] 16:12:02 -!- Axius [~hi@92.85.217.93] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14:10 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-42-2.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:14:30 Good evening! 16:14:51 hi beach 16:16:19 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 16:19:50 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:24:21 -!- bytecolor [~user@32.157.19.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:25:51 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:29 jsnell: Is there any additional information in debug-frames that Slime does not yet make use of? 16:28:58 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 16:29:05 mk` [~user@159.92.64.121] has joined #lisp 16:29:07 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:10 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:33 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:34:55 billstclai [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 16:34:57 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:13 -!- billstclai is now known as billstclair 16:35:17 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 16:35:17 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 16:35:33 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:45 -!- spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@122.167.83.196] has left #lisp 16:35:54 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:04 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 16:36:20 -!- qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:24 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:37:15 _8david: ping 16:38:25 <_8david> hi 16:39:03 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre\ 16:39:07 -!- legumbre\ is now known as legumbre 16:41:02 _8david: I'm planning to write an async exec daemon 16:41:24 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:42:06 -!- splittist [~513ec9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-pbvvcwvwslifvtzn] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:42:54 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 16:43:06 moocow [~new@64.151.208.1] has joined #lisp 16:44:26 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:50 dnolen [~dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 16:45:54 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Client Quit] 16:46:37 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 16:46:46 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 16:46:52 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 16:48:19 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 16:48:51 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:49:17 _8david: do you have ideas on what capabilities it should have ? 16:49:32 xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:50:58 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:15 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 16:53:54 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 16:55:30 <_8david> what's an async exec daemon? 16:56:11 _8david: a small program than listens on a local socket 16:56:30 and spawns processes on behalf of its clients 16:56:52 davazp [~user@83.46.0.116] has joined #lisp 16:57:40 fe[nl]ix: hah! i was thinking of the same thing. 16:58:02 fe[nl]ix: except even though i use sb-ext:run-program a lot, my volume doesn't really justify the effort. 16:59:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:59:21 Borkdude [~Borkdude@195-241-146-40.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 16:59:28 <_8david> I would be interested mostly in the fork&exec part of this program. 17:00:19 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:45 <_8david> So far, I haven't done anything to develop nikodemus' patch into a stand-alone library, but the idea was to have a portable, iolib-based run-program library. 17:01:18 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: .] 17:02:37 <_8david> (The disappointing part being that it needs that wrapper written in C to be reasonably portable.) 17:03:09 _8david: that would be the end goal: a daemon written in C and a small client in iolib 17:04:04 splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:04:10 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:04:21 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-kmdvlcjhrwyhxubs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:34 -!- _8david [~user@port-92-195-28-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:08 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-28-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:15 what's wrong with just run-program? page table copying overhead & such? 17:06:49 fe[nl]ix: I was hoping for a solution written mostly in Lisp, with a glue code function in C as small as possible. 17:07:46 cmm-: you can't set a SIGCHLD handler without interfering with the CL host's handler 17:08:16 cmm-: the portable run-program and the host's would interfere with each other 17:08:20 kami` [~user@p5B20CC0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:28 -!- kami` [~user@p5B20CC0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:46 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 17:08:50 ah, makes sense 17:08:51 milanj [~milan@91.150.101.151] has joined #lisp 17:09:23 -!- j4k0b [~j4k0b@1503024517.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [] 17:09:38 (you should call the client-facing function SPAWN :)) 17:10:18 -!- maus [~maus@123.20.6.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:10:20 yes, spawn little zerglings :) 17:10:38 Is there a way in SBCL to get a list of specials that were locally bound by a function from a frame? 17:11:41 lichtblau: as much as I'd like to, I found no way of writing a safe and portable run-program 17:11:44 fe[nl]ix: I wasn't aware of that problem. 17:11:45 Would it be possible to have a proxy process inbetween, so that the proxy gets the SIGCHLD, and exit of the grandchild is sent to the original process not through SIGCHLD but through the proxy closing a pipe or so? 17:12:01 spawn more overlords 17:12:10 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:12:49 lichtblau: that's how the exec daemon would work, more or less 17:12:56 Personally I wouldn't mind the host Lisp's run-program breaking. Just clobber its DEFUN RUN-PROGRAM with a compatible simulation. 17:13:06 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.65] has joined #lisp 17:13:23 but I was thinking of using a small IMAP-like protocol 17:14:22 lichtblau: there isn't only SBCL, but CCL, Clisp, etc... 17:14:25 you can write a sigchld handler which doesn't interfere 17:14:48 and emulating the quirks of each one wouldn't be fun at all 17:14:50 foom: how ? 17:15:00 you just have to a) only call waitpid on specific pids you are going to handle, and b) invoke the host's original handler also. 17:15:01 tcr: yes, at least for high debug levels 17:15:36 jsnell: doesn't seem to be part of debug-fun-debug-vars is it? 17:15:53 -!- mrbug [~mrbug@server.cvf.biz] has quit [Quit: mrbug] 17:15:58 probably not, but it should be possible to derive it from the binding stack 17:16:03 (that's actually good!) 17:16:13 fe[nl]ix: I agree. It was a reckless idea. 17:16:26 unix sucks, yes...but you really do need to loop over all children-you-know-about and call waitpid on each one individually. 17:16:34 jsnell: I'm changing sldb such that backends can provide arbitrary details -- I'd like to get that information from sbcl's backend 17:17:09 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:18:50 mrbug [~user@server.cvf.biz] has joined #lisp 17:19:20 foom: I'm not sure that would work in Clisp, which seems to use the equivalent of (with-sigchld-handler ...) around every use of fork&exec 17:20:00 hmm... or maybe it's not possible. I was thinking that you'd walk the binding stack looking for the sentinels like is done in unwind-to-frame-and-call, and then just look at the entries on the stack 17:20:33 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 17:20:37 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:20:40 but I guess we only have the sentinels on one side 17:20:41 bah 17:20:59 *tcr* performed a Krystof 17:21:23 it's not possible you said? 17:22:14 Is there any other hidden information I could make use of? 17:22:17 dnolen_ [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:27 local function names, block names 17:23:13 catch tags we already do 17:23:24 Restarts may be cool 17:23:27 foom: IOW, I want something that's more or less guaranteed to work, regardless of how NIH it is 17:23:50 fe[nl]ix: okay, well, sure, if the lisp goes out of its way to screw you over, there's not much you can do about that 17:24:05 tcr: restarts would probably only be derivable from the binding stack too 17:24:12 fe[nl]ix: but if clisp really does that, there's not much explanation besides that it juts wants to mess with you 17:25:21 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:25:21 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 17:25:52 "more or less" meaning that if the execution daemon dies and it isn't resurrected, you're screwed 17:27:25 jsnell: what was the name of the function you referenced earlier? 17:27:57 unwind-to-frame-and-call, iirc 17:28:08 that's the thing used for return-from-frame and restart-frame 17:28:15 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:09 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:14 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-42-2.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:07 prxq [~mommer@e179058177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:20 hi 17:33:23 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:37 jsnell: hm it seems like special variables are sometimes shown in a backtrace 17:33:45 dnolen [~dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 17:33:53 hi prxq 17:34:48 oh. I thought they didn't get included in the debuginfo, but if they, good :-) 17:35:12 jsnell: I have no idea when, and I cannot reproduce it 17:35:17 demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 17:35:20 -!- demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 17:35:33 jsnell: Just type (BREAK) at the slime-repl go to the (swank-backend::call-with-break-hook) frame, toggle details 17:36:12 However, I fail at writing a function binding a special and having that binding show uo 17:36:14 up 17:37:41 dnolen_ [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:40 gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 17:38:45 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 17:39:48 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ironport2.museum.moma.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:49 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 17:45:34 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-37.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:46:23 tcr: where should that binding show up? 17:46:50 ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:07 Ah, in the backtrace. 17:47:19 Well, yes, they should... 17:48:58 is there an easy way to profile your program in SBCL? 17:49:21 wvdschel: slime-sprof module of slime 17:49:36 stassats: without slime? 17:49:39 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:01 wvdschel: without slime nothing is easy 17:50:08 wvdschel: sb-sprof is what slime-sprof builds upon 17:50:15 the statistical profiler, and the other one, work. 17:50:36 if you can't use slime, at least try to use inferior lisp mode 17:51:06 wvdschel: and you'd even have to read the manual, that's the hardest part. http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Profiling.html 17:52:11 Ok never mind, I'll not be profiling until I'm using slime then :) 17:52:21 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:52:43 there is nothing hard about using sb-sprof directly 17:55:02 -!- Borkdude [~Borkdude@195-241-146-40.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:55:13 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 17:57:47 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:58:31 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:59:28 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:36 Hun [~hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:39 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:01:28 jsnell: Do you have an idea what the purpose of the "symbol#id" is in sldb? the id is debug-var-id 18:01:56 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:03 to disambiguate between multiple variables with the same name? 18:02:33 hm 18:02:54 Hello, I have function which returns 4 values, can I bind its 1st and 4th value? without binding 2nd and 3rd? 18:02:54 mrSpec, memo from beach: gibsonf1 was looking for you, so I told him how to leave a memo with minion. 18:02:54 mrSpec, memo from gibsonf1: please email fred@streamfocus.com about the clsql bug http://paste.lisp.org/display/95121 - especially if you've solved it!!! 18:02:54 mrSpec, memo from gibsonf1: Good news re: clsql bug - I fixed the problem on my system by deleting all old versions of clsql and uffi etc. 18:03:14 mrSpec: you bind all 4, and ignore the 2nd and 3rd 18:03:36 ok, thanks tcr 18:05:05 kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 18:05:38 marioxcc [~user@201.132.83.180] has joined #lisp 18:06:39 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:06:53 -!- kami`` is now known as kami` 18:07:37 -!- brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-213.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:10:12 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:11:32 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:11:38 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:12:21 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 18:15:16 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A10F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:26 rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.227.78] has joined #lisp 18:15:49 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #lisp 18:16:26 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: away! curry! away!] 18:18:20 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:19:42 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:21:45 -!- vng [~user@123.20.117.48] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:23:10 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:53 enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.43] has joined #lisp 18:28:09 -!- pix4 [~pixel@dslb-092-073-172-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:31:06 jsnell: How does a random id at the end disambiguate? 18:32:39 brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-225.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:00 -!- milanj [~milan@91.150.101.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:33:49 is it really random? 18:34:41 it's probably best viewed from the perspective of the builtin sbcl debugger 18:35:35 -!- mk` [~user@159.92.64.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:44 if I do "L" and see locals "x = ... x = ..." and want to manipulate them, how can I distinguish between the two? 18:36:03 the way the cli debugger does it is by showing "x#1 = ... x#2 = ..." 18:36:06 Yes, I can see that. I wonder why that was transfered to Slime. 18:36:27 In particular because the ID in the result of FRAME-LOCALS does not really identify a local variable 18:36:41 the index into the result of frame-locals is used for that 18:36:43 I guess they might be accessible through sb-debug:var if you do "e" 18:37:10 hrm 18:37:30 bah fuck I got rid of them :-P 18:37:33 milanj [~milan@109.93.197.100] has joined #lisp 18:37:37 no objection from me 18:37:51 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 18:37:55 I guess the point about `e' is a drawback though 18:38:53 jsoft [~user@ip-118-90-26-183.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:38:54 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:55 -!- jsoft [~user@ip-118-90-26-183.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Changing host] 18:38:55 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 18:39:24 -!- NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-57-82-249-9-129.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:39:25 -!- brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-225.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:40:07 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-54-157.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:08 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:40:36 ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:07 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-73-33.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:42:51 brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-225.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:43 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:50:09 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-42-2.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:17 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 18:52:28 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 18:53:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 18:58:47 DeusExPikachu [~DeusExPik@pool-151-196-50-168.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:11 Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-53-82-65-36-161.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:09 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:03:10 bigb [~bigb@r190-64-53-161.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:03:27 I also changed that the frame locals are now transfered to the Emacs side from the time the debugger is entered instead of requiring swank requests each time 19:03:30 -!- bigb [~bigb@r190-64-53-161.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left #lisp 19:03:56 The point of that is that when you lose your connection in SLDB, you'll still be able to toggle frame details 19:10:34 -!- brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-225.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:10:53 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.227.78] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 19:11:24 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-240-233.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:50 lispm [~joswig@e177157094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:26 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:16:19 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 19:17:13 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has joined #lisp 19:19:27 migge [~marc@ip-95-223-247-31.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 19:21:09 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:35 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:31 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:25:20 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:37:31 brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-213.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:19 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213.129.230.10] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:25 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 19:39:50 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A10F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:39:58 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:43:01 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:44:25 SBCL keeps crashing on me, what does "set_pseudo_atomic_atomic: pseudo atomic bits is 1." mean? 19:47:55 bigjust1 [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:00 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:06 lichtblau: I heard you tried perec with oracle. 19:49:07 wvdschel: I don't know, sorry. That sounds pretty weird! What platform are you using? 19:50:30 Xach, embarrassingly Windows 19:50:57 wvdschel: No need to be embarrassed! Windows SBCL hackers are brave pioneers, and I salute them. 19:51:32 wvdschel: google's results seem to point to a threading thing by Gabor...I don't think windows sbcl does threading yet. 19:51:36 pseudo atomic, that should have something to do with threads, but sbcl windows doesn't have threads 19:52:02 tsuru`: I'm not using threading 19:52:37 reducing the depth of my recursion tree seems to solve the problem 19:52:53 but I'm working on a game tree, reducing the depth of the tree also makes my code useless 19:53:02 increase stack size? 19:53:15 change algorithm? 19:53:28 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:53:30 -!- kami` is now known as kami 19:53:45 use CCL? 19:53:54 how do you increase your stack size? With the --dynamic-size option? 19:54:13 kami pasted "how to retrieve the docstring" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95557 19:54:21 lispm: I don't have the option of using CCL 19:54:30 why not? 19:54:33 --dynamic-stack-size 19:54:36 Should the last call in that paste return the docstring? 19:55:00 kami: well, your method doesn't have a docstring 19:55:17 (:documentation "...") ? 19:55:23 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:55:40 that's the documentation of the generic function 19:55:51 brennanc [~brennanc@65.203.131.114] has joined #lisp 19:56:11 kami: look closer at your method 19:56:26 it returns a string 19:56:39 stassats: wait 19:56:44 and has no documentation 19:57:12 :) 19:57:14 i hoped kami would understand on his own 19:57:23 don't make it too hard 19:57:38 but it's more fun 19:57:47 *kami* wouldn't understand, even if he stared at it for another hour 19:57:57 thanks stassats and lispm 19:58:11 slash_ [~Unknown@p4FF0B0C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:11 drewc [~drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 20:00:18 How can I develop interactively with hunchentoot? Every time I make a change in I have to kill emacs, relaunch slime, then do a (load "...") on my file. 20:00:42 you have to? 20:00:43 why that? 20:01:01 i didn't notice that last time i used hunchentoot 20:01:03 doing (huchentoot:start) blocks and I can't type anything into the repl after that 20:01:22 I tried doing C-c C-c to recompile the function but it has no effect. 20:01:29 lack of threads? 20:01:29 your implementation is single-threaded? 20:01:33 -!- mrbug [~user@server.cvf.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:52 if you have a function that 'blocks', then call it using PROCESS-RUN-FUNCTION or similar 20:01:53 ahh, could be, new machine, let me recompile sbcl. I'm using the default gentoo distro 20:04:39 just tried it out on Linux, works fine 20:05:28 so once I have the threaded version I can just C-c C-c the function I want to change? 20:05:37 or do I still need to stop and start the server? 20:06:02 DeusExPikachu_ [~DeusExPik@pool-141-157-42-226.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:05 depends on what you do 20:06:28 what's the recommended way? 20:06:59 if you are programming and there are no users, just loading/compiling is fine most of the time 20:07:04 brennanc: on my multithreaded lisp hunchentoot:start does not block 20:07:39 if you have a running site with traffic and you redefine something that needs to be protected against concurrent access then you need to do that 20:08:05 I have a dev server and then we push changes to the live servers. 20:08:26 I'm used to PHP programming but have been learning CL for the last month now so I'm just trying to figure out all the workflow stuff. 20:08:47 Language is pretty easy to pick up from books and stuff like that but I'm struggling learning all the little things that aren't really documented anywhere. 20:08:49 you need to understand if your changes have any effects on other threads running at the same time 20:09:01 How do you guys typically work for web development? 20:09:13 interactively 20:09:23 don't restart if possible 20:09:29 add locks where necessary 20:09:34 brennanc: I work in emacs + slime locally, often in the same lisp image for months at a time 20:09:42 -!- DeusExPikachu [~DeusExPik@pool-151-196-50-168.balt.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:09:45 brennanc: I have a lisp web server listening on a local port, and continuously redefine functions while refreshing in the browser 20:09:53 brennanc: i use that source code to produce executables 20:10:07 those are rsynced to the staging environment 20:10:23 from there on to production 20:10:36 yeah, what drewc said 20:10:42 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 20:10:44 drewc: so you restart the server so it can use the new changes? 20:10:56 only on live/staging environments 20:11:06 drewc: are you using any kind of proxying like nginx to hunchentoot or just pure hunchentoot? 20:11:27 the purpose of the executable is so I don't have to replicate my build environment on production servers 20:12:02 DeusExPikachu__ [~DeusExPik@pool-151-196-16-148.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:14 brennanc: I proxy behind apache, and have it handling static files, LDAP auth, other stuff apache is good at 20:12:26 brennanc: sometimes... sometimes i just ship a .lisp.patch file that the server loads automatically from a directory, but 95% of the time, yes, i 'restart the server' 20:12:41 and i don't use hunchentoot, so Mu. 20:13:02 Mu is another server? 20:13:21 no, Mu is a term meaning 20:13:37 kami annotated #95557 "C-c C-c doesn't work" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95557#1 20:13:51 "the question you asked is based on false assumptions... examine your ideas and think about things before you ask again" 20:14:09 brennanc: this is an newish post on hunchentoot behind nginx: http://blog.kadirpekel.com/2009/01/04/configure-hunchentoot-behind-nginx/ 20:14:16 kami: Do not have ( in the initiall column in docstrings 20:14:24 Emacs won't like that 20:14:26 tcr: thank you 20:14:30 kami: Instead use \( 20:15:01 -!- DeusExPikachu_ [~DeusExPik@pool-141-157-42-226.balt.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:15:18 tcr: will do 20:16:20 tcr: in fact, I tried before, but when I entered the backslash, any cursor movement removed the backslash again 20:17:03 kami: That's due to paredit. you either have to remove the ( and type \ then (, or use C-q \ 20:17:18 tcr: thanks again 20:17:53 In case paredit complains about unbalanced parentheses: paredit does not hook into deleting text via marking+C-w 20:18:23 you can also force insert any character by prefixing it with C-q, for example C-q ) 20:19:22 tcr: yes, I just didn't realise that it's paredit who eats my parens :) 20:20:20 -!- DeusExPikachu__ [~DeusExPik@pool-151-196-16-148.balt.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:20:28 frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:48 -!- Anarch [~w3@elrond.hsl.washington.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:02 -!- wvdschel [~wim@zeus.ugent.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:55 kami: C-q ) has saved my much frustration over the years... when you know you want to unbalance parens, it's a lifesaver :) 20:22:00 puchacz: 20:22:02 err 20:22:05 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 20:22:34 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 20:23:42 ryepup: thanks, I'll check out that link 20:24:59 drewc: yes, C-u is also very helpful 20:25:26 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:01 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.] 20:27:04 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:15 -!- trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:31:15 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:37 lithper2__ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.2] has joined #lisp 20:31:44 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:32:29 ziga [~user@BSN-143-158-189.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:55 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 20:34:33 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:34:44 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:35:33 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 20:35:46 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has joined #lisp 20:38:39 -!- lithper2__ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:37 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:41:04 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:41:24 anybody ever see this when launching slime? "Error opening /dev/tty: No such device or address" 20:41:42 I recompiled sbcl to the latest and now when I try to start slime I get this error 20:44:04 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:46:22 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:33 DeusExPikachu [~DeusExPik@pool-151-196-34-224.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:22 lemonodor [~lemonodor@144.198.182.10] has joined #lisp 20:54:56 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 20:55:08 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:55:25 hello 20:55:27 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:03 brennanc: looks more like issue with how inferior lisp is launched 20:56:18 i usually get this in LDB 20:56:33 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:41 OmniMancer2 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 20:56:50 hello fe[nl]ix 20:56:58 hi kami 20:56:59 brennanc: opening /dev/tty would fail only if for some reason descriptors 0, 1 and 2 aren't properly connected to TTY nor anything similar. I don't remember exact conditions 20:57:03 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:58:36 ABCL.Net.dll runs pretty good on win64 20:59:04 calling C# code 20:59:28 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:59:57 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:23 dmiles_afk: using J#, IKVM or native CLR support? 21:00:54 IKVM but precompiled the core .cls files 21:00:58 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-40-246.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:02 Hello all. 21:01:11 For the record, power-outs suck. 21:01:14 hi nyef 21:01:18 meaing IKMV got a chance to convert them ti ilasm 21:01:36 meaning IKVM got a chance to convert them to native ilasm 21:02:22 dmiles_afk: so, ABCL -> Java bytecode -> CLR bytecode -> runtime? 21:02:22 i did a minor C# port of ABCL three years ago.. but i only got like 90% way thu 21:02:32 correct 21:02:43 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.34] has joined #lisp 21:03:16 and on late compiled classes it goes thru the classloader of IKVM and it does the "Java bytecode -> CLR bytecode" latish 21:03:42 (IKVM at least doesnt interpret) 21:04:05 drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:36 -!- bigjust1 [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:04:45 one thing i did once was converted ABCL to 1.3 style and tried J#.. but i roke the compiler 21:05:07 or even if i didnt break it .. the classloader stuff wasnt working 21:05:35 but the IKVM(C) turns out to be most reasonable 21:06:14 -!- DeusExPikachu [~DeusExPik@pool-151-196-34-224.balt.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:07:08 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:11 p_l: you gotta see this... http://code.google.com/p/opensim4opencog/source/browse/trunk/Cogbot/ScriptEngines/ABCLInterpreter.cs 21:07:23 (since you are a C#er) 21:07:42 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:09:16 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:45 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:10:01 whats cute is the jlinker API designed for java.. works just as well on .NET objects 21:10:47 well, it's really a DAG isn't it, do we actually have cycles? 21:10:52 sorry, wrong window! 21:11:00 though i still having to set up some helper functions to register event handlers for Lisp to take.net events 21:11:02 I have to say, that I'm still completely dumbfounded by how C# looks "cleaner" to me than Java 21:11:15 C# is a nice language... Java is not. 21:11:18 nvoorhies [~nvoorhies@166.205.136.232] has joined #lisp 21:11:36 *drewc* does not mind C# at all 21:11:54 more like C# got faster turnaround with changes. Release Early, Release often? At least compared to Java :D 21:11:58 well i get things done 2 times faster in C# than in jhav.. and when i have java days.. sometimes i sit there going.. ug this is harder 21:12:07 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@131.104.9.106] has joined #lisp 21:12:12 is C# build around objective C ? 21:12:16 sepult: nope 21:12:17 non 21:12:25 oh 21:12:28 ok 21:12:34 C# seems to converge towards lisp faster than java 21:13:01 leadnose: Blame the guy who wrote the CLR GC... in scheme. 21:13:05 though there is still issues with .net vm heap memory that are hard to get arround.. the same way as with java 21:13:05 sepult: C# is kinda like a more C/C++ variant of Java. That doesn't have weird issues with filenames etc. 21:13:12 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.65] has joined #lisp 21:13:22 nyef: MS Research got quite a lot of work in FP 21:13:46 p_l: thank you for the info, so it is java based ?! 21:13:53 nyef: it was CL actually, IIRC :) 21:14:02 Heh. Whichever. 21:14:03 and .net vm even with valuetypes end up boxing very often unintentally 21:14:31 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 21:14:47 though if you do some important stuff "unmanaged" (heh its aleas its a real option!) things can go good 21:15:47 unmananged C/C++ unions/structs that is 21:16:19 -!- frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:30 (the C# structs though are still something to be scoffed at) 21:17:46 francogrex [~user@147.35-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:17:47 dmiles_afk: what are you doing that is so performance sensitive that boxing matters, yet unsensitive enough that c# was chosing as the implementation language? 21:17:54 chosen* 21:18:10 a port of Cyc 21:18:25 its a 12gb lisp databse app when in C# 21:19:13 drewc: something where c#'s support for stack allocation and unboxed values will shine? 21:19:19 well i guess it my ignoreance at first.. i was hoping using extension methds would help me avoid Objects 21:19:44 and i could pass arround value types 21:20:14 to represent the lisp object such as ConsPairs etc 21:20:18 sepult: more like "inspired" a little 21:20:52 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 21:20:52 sepult: there are obvious similarities, especially in 1.0, but even then it had a lot of nice stuff not seen in Java even now I think. 21:21:02 drewc: so intially i had unwittenly sold myself that the .net vm would save me from some things that jvm was setting me up to do 21:21:13 sepult: just annotation were a great thing 21:21:28 dmiles_afk: so is it safe to assume that 'just using lisp' wasn't an option? :) 21:21:31 for instance i decided System.Int64 could be a good Fixnum 21:21:59 and removed the LispFixnum from the mix (it ws Holder object) 21:22:29 turns out the passing of a System.int64 back and forth was box/unbox/box/unbox twice as often ;) 21:22:55 drewc: well i only can compare it to allegro benchmarks so far 21:23:14 and turns out LarKC (Cyc in Java) performed a bit better than Alegro 21:23:30 at least for "this app" 21:23:41 optimizing wasn't an option? 21:23:42 does the allegro version use AllegroCache ? 21:23:44 on the lisp scale.. be hard to say which is better 21:24:06 naw didnt do the AllgroCache.. but thats on the todo list maybe 21:24:21 what _was_ the storage engine? 21:24:42 lots of slotted structures 21:25:05 tht do alot of good idnexing .. and stuff from the point of view of the orignal programmers 21:25:15 -!- migge [~marc@ip-95-223-247-31.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:25:25 which indeed might meet of exceed AllegroCache 21:25:36 meet or exceed 21:25:49 might, but i doubt it? :) 21:25:55 however.. on Allegro . hen Allegro cahce might be better 21:26:17 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:25 yeah thats a very weak might 21:26:46 but if it was another lisp system.. it would be considered a pretty ok impl 21:27:06 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 21:27:29 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:36 now when this is in C# or in Java these structures are actualyl objects.. 21:27:43 is it (you implementation) and object store with indexes, or indexes with an object store? 21:28:15 object store with indexes 21:28:37 well there are views from an index to get you to all the right places in the object store as welll 21:28:54 are indexes stored as objects in the object store? 21:29:06 the indexes themselves are objects 21:29:42 with slots linked back refernce wise to the objects they index 21:30:09 which have slots that have instances back to the index structures 21:30:21 sounds like rucksack! 21:31:25 well it was to satisfiy mutliple types of interators that travel over the KB 21:31:38 iterators that travel over the KB 21:31:49 CYC has been ported to C# ? 21:31:59 Fare: yes 21:32:33 but runs basically memory wise and performance wise just like the java port 21:32:56 i used JLCA + IKVM for the hrder stuff 21:33:17 jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:46 but the goal was to somehow use .NETs valuetypes inteligently to avoid hep usage like Cons 21:34:21 turns out Int64 takes up the same memorory as any System.Object.. plus it get localstack boxing 21:34:37 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:41 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.178.109] has joined #lisp 21:34:52 frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:53 but it does run faster than the Allegro port! 21:35:04 -!- OmniMancer2 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:35:12 how about the SBCL port? :) 21:35:26 its just tunning AllegroGC though.. and actualyl breaking down and learning how to leverage AllegroCache 21:35:26 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:51 allegro cache is likely to be a major win in that case. 21:36:25 drewc: someone is working on the SBCL he finally got the some clisp sanity 21:36:47 ENOPARSE 21:37:11 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:37:34 drewc: someone is working on the SBCL port of it.. he finally got it to load on clisp.. just not running yet 21:38:07 dmiles_afk: ah ok :) 21:38:09 loading/compiling vs runing are two diffenrt matters 21:38:10 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:38:20 lichtblau: ping 21:38:23 indeed they are :) 21:38:39 tell that to haskell fans 21:39:12 i am totally excited about finding out what SBCL does though 21:39:40 stassats: they have monads, they know all about those unfortunate details like having to actually run the code :P 21:41:29 dmiles_afk, the Genera version of Cyc is long gone? 21:42:43 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:43:29 i think you can still make a .c translation with the Genera 21:43:46 trebor_home [~email@dslb-084-058-224-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:47 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:43:59 meaning you can make the system trnalate itself to .c 21:43:59 you can only have 8 slots in clisp ;) 21:44:13 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:31 dmiles_afk, but can Cyc still be used with Genera? 21:44:40 lispm: wait it just might.. hrrm 21:44:58 maybe with: Genera LispWorks Allegro 21:45:02 *Fare* got his pure functional maps tested and debugged, for once 21:45:27 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754294.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:37 the other lisps CMUCL only good for translating 21:45:39 dmiles_afk, what are developers usually using? 21:45:44 Allegro 21:45:54 so thats what they tell me 21:45:58 Fare: Hello! 21:46:23 drewc: Did you see my email? Any idea how to fix the clnet problems? 21:46:29 Fare: What's the relationship between your interface-passing-style stuff and, say, ContextL? 21:46:31 dmiles_afk, LispWorks should also run it nicely 21:46:32 rpg: just replied... problem solved 21:46:40 drewc: Great! 21:46:50 nyef: scope! 21:46:55 nyef: the same as passing explicit parameters around and dynamic scope. 21:47:01 drewc: I hope to report a successful upload RSN. 21:47:06 lispm: but not Lucid or MCL .. right? 21:47:06 Okay, that's what I thought. 21:47:36 nyef: i, personally, use contextl for that sort of thing. 21:47:45 dmiles_afk, if you have something where it runs? 21:47:46 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:48:02 dmiles_afk, but LispWorks is nicely running in 64bit 21:48:05 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:06 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:26 nyef: something like http://paste.lisp.org/display/95057 21:48:29 dnolen [~dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 21:48:52 nyef, you could probably use ContextL for passing some interfaces around. 21:49:05 nyef, but otherwise, no direct relationship 21:49:39 lispm: it might be possible knowig it runs in LispWorks and 89% like in Genera still.. it might be easier making the SBCL more simular to one of those two than trying to use #+Allegro? 21:49:58 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:50:09 lispm: so it might be possible knowing it runs in LispWorks and 89% likely in Genera still.. it might be easier making the SBCL more simular to one of those two than trying to use #+Allegro? 21:50:36 or just settle with one of those two others 21:50:40 dmiles_afk: code should be mostly portable between Allegro, LispWorks and SBCL 21:50:46 Fare: using contextl can give you dynamically composable interfaces.... i've used this with intersting results in my monad adventures 21:50:48 dmiles_afk, Genera is more different 21:52:10 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:18 drewc, can be fun. I wanted statically composable ones, though. 21:52:39 I basically wanted to do what I would otherwise do in ML 21:52:43 or Haskell. 21:52:52 -!- nvoorhies [~nvoorhies@166.205.136.232] has quit [Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info] 21:52:54 and that was a success. 21:53:28 nvoorhies [~nvoorhies@166.205.136.232] has joined #lisp 21:54:03 yeah, that was my motivation for using contextl, only rather than deny the dynamic nature of Lisp, i embrace it :) 21:54:35 that is, if we have dynamic types, we should have dynamic typeclasses :P 21:54:56 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-25.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:55:01 we can have both static and dynamic. 21:55:08 -!- Hun [~hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:09 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-084-058-224-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55:18 it's easier to layer dynamic on top of static than the other way around. 21:55:37 Fare: modulo the inference rules? 21:55:39 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@131.104.9.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55:52 inference rules? 21:55:54 I don't see how your system is static though. 21:56:03 uh? 21:56:43 Fare: Inference for type classes. 21:56:56 *dmiles_afk* reading to see if OpenGenera can be ran on linux 64 21:57:55 I don't provide inference -- you have to supply the correct type class the hard way. 21:58:19 If you want to build Haskell on top of that, fine. 21:58:20 Stuff like (Eq a), (Eq b) => (Eq (a, b)) 21:58:28 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 21:58:34 Bot type inference, but the support for generic programming. 21:58:41 *Not 21:59:12 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:59:49 You can get some of it at runtime with runtime checking, but complex rules will become hard to express, or simply not be expressible due to dynamic typing. 22:00:41 -!- knobo [~user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:41 I don't see why complex rules become hard to express... 22:00:57 lispm: did you write? http://labs.aezenix.com/lispm/index.php?title=VLM_On_Linux 22:01:15 dmiles_afk, no 22:01:38 dmiles_afk, but I have a newer version for the Mac 22:01:43 because you have to write the pattern matching, and some patterns will fall under the same method for CLOS. 22:01:51 ( ) can do the job of building an interface for pair type that have the correct Eq type, etc. 22:02:08 And you might have to check for method applicability too. 22:02:20 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:02:40 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-167-135-102.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:03:22 drewc: Stick a fork in it's butt --- I think it's done... 22:03:24 Fare: and how will you special case pairs of a certain type? 22:03:30 (defmethod ((i1 ) (i2 )) ...) 22:03:44 (defmethod ((i1 ) (i2 )) ...) 22:04:01 (defmethod ((i1 ) (i2 ) &key ...) ...) 22:04:28 you don't have to use the interface constructor, either 22:04:49 you could write your own function that returns an interface 22:05:08 so YES, it's more cumbersome than inference, but you have total control. 22:05:15 As for bugs... testing! 22:05:16 lacedaemon [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:05:17 You have to explicitly plan out all the interfaces (predicates) you plan on using with ahead of time and shove the combinations in the class hierarchy. 22:05:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:05:32 I just went through plenty of tests to debug my implementation of pure functional maps 22:05:37 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 22:05:37 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 22:05:49 I'm pretty confident now that my implementation basically works. 22:06:28 pkhuong, yes and no... that's why you make a gf 22:06:37 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:06:38 so you can specialize it 22:07:30 and you can avoid compile-time combinatorial explosion by using parametric polymorphism and explicit delegation instead 22:08:06 or you can embrace combinatorial explosion, or use prototypes for interfaces instead of classes (see sheeple). 22:08:14 Fare: or contextl? 22:08:30 contextl layers are very close to prototypes conceptually 22:08:33 I still don't see how contextl helps there 22:08:51 but -- whatever floats your boat 22:09:19 well, 'prototypes or interfaces' is very close to saying 'layers' 22:09:36 you stated exactly how contextl helps here! :) 22:10:05 except I don't usually want dynamic scoping of interfaces. 22:10:22 or worse, of "the" interface 22:10:54 to paraphrase Xof quoting tfb "dynamic scope at compile time maps nicely to static scope at run time" 22:11:00 let's just call them "frames" and be friends. 22:11:13 it's not at compile-time. 22:11:30 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@guestlaptop-18.cis.uoguelph.ca] has joined #lisp 22:11:48 oh? tell that to my compile time dynamic interface/monad implementation :) 22:12:19 good for you 22:12:43 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 22:12:48 dynamically scoped macro expanders ... that's very much compile time. 22:12:50 -!- prip [~foo@host247-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:13:23 clhs defmethod 22:13:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmet.htm 22:14:33 speaking of which, while debugging my code, it seems that the method cache was keep old versions of methods in cache after I reload some definitions. 22:14:59 i.e. fix bug in defmethod foo, re-run defmethod bar that calls foo, you get the wrong foo. 22:15:03 (on SBCL) 22:15:11 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:24 i have been observing that in an erratic fashion on and off for months. 22:16:01 if you redefine bar, it works, right? 22:16:11 prxq, yes, I think it does 22:16:21 but still, that's a pain. 22:16:30 minor pain, but a pain. 22:16:47 Does anyone understand how TN packing works in SBCL? 22:17:11 Fare / prxq: really? I would like to know how that happens 22:17:25 oh, except if maybe you've traced a generic function? Or profiled one? 22:18:02 Krystof: no, plain old programming. I have that with defuns, but unfortunately on an erratic basis. 22:18:48 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:18:51 i am sorry to have chimed in. I wanted to try to produce a reasonable bug report, but haven't had the time 22:19:03 Krystof, I may have traced foo, but not bar 22:19:23 and nothing like capturing the function value is going on? (let ((x #'foo)) (defun bar (y) (funcall x ...)))? 22:19:38 no such thing 22:19:50 that was for prxq. I can explain your symptom easily 22:19:58 ok. 22:20:10 if you trace a gf, you change the value of (fdefinition 'foo) basically 22:20:25 then the defmethod foo can be applied to the wrong funcallable object 22:20:38 workaround: don't trace foo 22:20:39 I can say for sure that I've had that type of behavior without tracing or anything 22:20:50 (sorry, not helpful, but at least I have a mechanism) 22:20:52 I can't say that for usre 22:21:49 prxq: well, short of threads, smp and lack of cache coherence on your architecture, I can't help 22:21:49 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.178.109] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:22:48 if we are talking threads, running programs, multiple cores with multiple caches, and shortish timeframes (before the next gc, which iirc happens often in your systems :-), then there's a mechanism of sorts 22:22:54 I wouldn't want to stake lots of money on it 22:23:00 but it might be at least plausible 22:23:03 Krystof: :-) 22:23:16 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:32 I'll try to produce a decent bug report. Until then, I just withdraw my pseudo bugreport 22:24:30 ...and good night all. 22:24:31 good luck 22:24:36 prxq: Sleep well. 22:24:38 -!- prxq [~mommer@e179058177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: good night] 22:25:51 prip [~foo@host163-122-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:26:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 22:28:17 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:28:37 -!- brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-213.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:29:50 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 22:29:58 mejja [~user@c-52b1e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:30:43 -!- wlr__ [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:31:12 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:31:20 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 22:35:01 -!- francogrex [~user@147.35-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:36 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 22:35:39 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:36:27 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:32 -!- nvoorhies [~nvoorhies@166.205.136.232] has quit [Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info] 22:40:06 jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has joined #lisp 22:46:06 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:46:39 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 22:46:55 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:51:07 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.120] has joined #lisp 22:51:32 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.0.116] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- danly [~danleslie@S010600259c4d3771.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:33 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:33 -!- pjb [~t@95.124.11.78] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:33 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:46 -!- tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:53:19 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 davazp [~user@83.46.0.116] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 danly [~danleslie@S010600259c4d3771.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 pjb [~t@95.124.11.78] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:53:21 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:53:33 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:53:40 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:40 is there a good reason why "documentation strings" are not evaluated? 22:53:50 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:53:51 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:54 e.g. (defclass foo () () (:documentation (bar)))? 22:54:01 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:08 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:17 you can look at the code and see it 22:55:00 *stassats* imagines autogenerated documentation from autogenerated docstrigns 22:55:14 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-78.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:14 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-78.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:55:14 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:55:19 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 22:55:24 *levente_meszaros* imagines structured documentation without weird string syntax 22:55:40 fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has joined #lisp 22:56:16 write it in tex/html/whatever? 22:56:47 do you mean write it in lisp? 22:56:54 levente_meszaros: #. ? 22:57:25 drewc, yes, an ugly workaround 22:58:01 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@guestlaptop-18.cis.uoguelph.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:13 if you say so.... i think putting anything besides strings as a docstring is ugly to begin with :) 22:59:05 so you like tex/html/whatever better than sexp? 22:59:13 also, for defclass or defgeneric anyway, you could pull it of with some MOPery 22:59:27 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:33 how does that follow? 22:59:40 SBCL defclass's checks it during macroexpand time 22:59:52 but I already have the ugly DEF CLASS syntax :) 23:00:04 (setf (getf (getf 'foo 'documentation) 'class) (whatever you feel like)) 23:00:20 ayuh 23:00:22 and I like tex better than sexp 23:00:24 these are ugly workarounds 23:00:40 they are working with the existing tools rather than breaking them 23:00:59 i do my docstrings in an org-mode like syntax that is parsed to sexps by my documentation tool 23:01:22 I bet that is pretty much limited 23:01:23 -!- raison [~raison@70.90.182.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:01:40 oh no! I can only produce hyperlinked, indexed, print-quality documents 23:01:50 I can't actually feed the documentation to my penguin 23:01:57 truly, truly limited 23:03:06 (wait, it's too late, I don't think I'm likely to come up with anything that's not mockery to any suggestion. Clearly bedtime) 23:03:50 how do you insert a paragraph with all generic function methods that follow a certain naming convention and dispatch on the class being documented? 23:05:09 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 23:05:12 necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:29 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:06:51 (defparameter ASDF-INSTALL-CUSTOMIZE::*VERIFY-GPG-SIGNATURES* nil) doesn't seem to have any effect. Have this changed? 23:07:00 it is still prompting me to skip GPG 23:07:01 Hrm... Nothing about the compiler in the internals-manual. :-/ 23:07:22 brennanc: Rule three: Don't use ASDF-INSTALL. 23:08:06 -!- frontiers [~frontiers@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:08:16 I tried that other one, forget the name, the one that used darcs, but it wasn't making any sense 23:08:27 it forced me to go through it to launch slime even 23:08:30 clbuild, you mean? 23:08:37 yes, that was the one 23:08:51 everyone uses clbuild now? 23:09:27 I... occasionally use clbuild for something. But for most of my hacking I just set up the two or three libraries I need by hand. 23:09:37 brennanc, on what platform you are, again? 23:09:42 nus: gentoo 23:09:55 brennanc, and what makes you use asdf-install? 23:10:07 brennanc, ever heard of gentoo-lisp overlay? 23:10:07 nus: to install hunchentoot 23:10:14 brennanc: it doesn't force you to do anything.. if you want, you can use it just to get the libraries and set up the asd links 23:10:16 nus: yes, couldn't get that to work either 23:10:33 Heh. Not that clbuild did too well last time I wanted to use it to install hunchentoot... 23:10:33 can I just download tarballs and unzip it? 23:10:47 what does asdf-install actually do? 23:11:07 downloads tarbarlls and unzips them 23:11:11 and follow the dependencies 23:11:22 follows, even 23:13:16 so how do I go the tarball route? 23:13:31 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:13:31 I see that asdf was installing to /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site-systems 23:13:44 brennanc, you don't. stick with the overlay. Complain to maintainers. 23:13:53 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@88-149-209-144.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 23:13:55 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@88-149-209-144.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Changing host] 23:13:55 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 23:14:10 brennanc, there's #gentoo-lisp 23:14:11 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-89-223-160-21.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:14:28 -!- racecondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:43 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Client Quit] 23:15:04 *drewc* uses clbuild but is looking as lispy as an alternative 23:15:04 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 23:15:09 at lispy* 23:15:14 hey fe[nl]ix 23:15:18 hi drewc 23:15:30 brennanc: download, tar xzf, ln the .asd to somewhere that pops up in your *CENTRAL-REGISTRY* . That is all. 23:16:00 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:17:16 so once I have it installed in my /usr/local/lib/sbcl folder, can I just copy that entire folder to another machine? 23:17:59 Sure. 23:18:00 the other machine has the same environment 23:18:23 what should the default source-registry be on windows? 23:18:27 cp doesn't care about your environment (: 23:18:35 -!- mega1 [~quassel@53d8316e.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:19:01 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:21:26 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-122-115.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:06 Fare: ping 23:23:36 drewc: get a chance to try buildapp in anger? 23:23:39 -!- frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:24:03 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:04 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:29 -!- moocow [~new@64.151.208.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:34 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 23:26:36 Xach: it's on my list of things to do tomorrow actually :) 23:27:06 Xach: which are all getting pushed to friday as my laptop is on the fritz and a new one doesn't arrive until tomorrow 23:27:27 -!- lispm [~joswig@e177157094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:50 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@p4FF0B0C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:28:29 -!- Alabaman [~badgerfac@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:02 *Xach* got to use buildapp for a report generator at work, unexpectedly, this week 23:29:38 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-25.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:29:42 Aniya [ircap@186.140.206.193] has joined #lisp 23:30:13 'try buildapp in anger' sounds like fun :) 23:31:26 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:33:41 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:34:18 Is 'anger' a new os? 23:34:29 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:53 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:07 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:35:21 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.34] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 23:35:21 fe[nl]ix, pong 23:36:24 konr [~user@189.0.24.161] has joined #lisp 23:38:51 Error: cannot download unknown project editor-hints :( 23:38:51 23:40:23 it made me want to have more built-in debugger stuff, though. 23:40:39 the first question one must ask in software maintenance is: into which orifice of this rotting corpse must I insert my hand to bring it back to life. 23:41:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:41:37 fusss: no, that's the second question, after one has answered in the affirmative to 'is this shit even worth trying to save?' 23:42:09 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.0.116] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:43:47 question #0: have I been working here short enough to leave it out of my resume if I quit? 23:44:13 No such thing. 23:44:17 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:40 HR workers take particular pleasure in peeing on resumes with gaps and throwing them in the litter box. 23:44:43 (push :mel-base *recommended-libraries*) 23:45:35 jcowan: happily desk-jockeying here after 4 years of un-consult-lancing 23:45:36 i have not needed a resume in many years.... i suggest not working for places that hire by reading resumes :) 23:45:51 ditto, i was hire out of a pub 23:45:55 hireD 23:45:59 I had a shitty resume. Now I'm writing lisp for a living. 23:46:03 \o/ 23:46:15 ya, that's the way to do it, beer at the interview is a good sign 23:46:22 we have a keg 23:46:28 it gets replaced every couple of days 23:46:58 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D9D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:47:31 sykopomp: barefoot raddler and blue tongue at work :-) sadly, i prototype php web services in lisp and hand over the final specs to be butchered in Zend, when I am not butchering Zend with my bad phping 23:47:51 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:54 fusss: I write tests for PHP-based web applications in CL 23:48:04 at least that's what I spent most of my time doing today. 23:48:29 i wrote a web app in CL that was meant to be extended in php once 23:49:15 the client had php using web designers on staff, but new it was pretty crappy for doing anything major... i give him a lot of credit for that :) 23:49:17 yep. use SoapUI if you're a SOA shop. it generates the test cases for me. i do API design and availability mostly. 23:49:20 knew* 23:49:22 *Xach* is going to spend some quality time on lisp/openlibrary.org hacking tonight 23:50:45 so, you just have your lisp app serve php via CGI... easy. 23:50:57 ok, hockey time... bye all 23:51:22 dnolen_ [~dnolen@pool-70-19-64-12.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:45 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:53:17 -!- Aniya [ircap@186.140.206.193] has quit [] 23:54:57 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:54:57 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 23:55:19 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 23:56:47 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has left #lisp 23:56:55 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:57:17 rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.235.192] has joined #lisp 23:57:24 Fare: http://common-lisp.net/~sionescu/PROTOCOL 23:57:26 Fare: do you think something's missing ? 23:57:52 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-118-219.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:41 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-35-132.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 23:59:20 rjschave [~rjschave@d149-67-38-179.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:56 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.130] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die]