00:00:46 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:00:58 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f665fc2-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 00:01:32 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:02:13 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:09:57 hi, I'm writing some horrifying "execute a function at a certain time" code similar to cron I guess. I'm just looping on (sleep 1) (when (time>= (get-universal-time) *specified-time*) (foo)) 00:10:10 which could be up to .99 seconds off... anyone have a better way? 00:10:43 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 00:10:56 use a timer 00:11:21 (progn (sleep (- *specified-time* (get-universal-time) )) (foo)) 00:11:31 or something like that 00:11:36 adeht: knobo: thanks 00:11:42 egn_: which lisp are you using? 00:11:42 yeah, that's cleaner 00:11:45 knobo: sbcl 00:12:39 http://www.xach.com/lisp/timer/doc.html 00:12:45 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 00:13:19 thanks 00:17:09 -!- davazp [~user@198.Red-88-1-98.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:35 jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has joined #lisp 00:20:54 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-144-21.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 00:21:36 -!- milanj [~milan@93.86.187.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:24:03 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:34 this should have been in the language (defun file-size (path) (with-open-file (file path) (file-length file))) 00:24:59 cltl3 gotta make those file functions methods FFS 00:25:33 Make everything methods. 00:25:55 make + a genfun! 00:26:15 I'm all for it. 00:28:22 also, someone invent a lousy dialect of BASIC and call it New Ruby, for fun 00:29:54 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.143.86] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- rossome [~none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1cb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440197.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:54 -!- easyE [1uYnzIyhvF@panix3.panix.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- mle [~emily@kuu.accela.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- dejones [~dejones@cpe-70-124-77-66.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- hoeq [~hoeq@h-66-64.A216.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-194-61.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:29:55 or Pearl. 00:29:57 pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has joined #lisp 00:29:57 -!- pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has quit [Changing host] 00:29:57 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 00:29:58 Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:58 easyE [42bFesU9A6@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:58 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1cb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:30:01 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-056-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:02 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 00:30:07 b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 00:30:08 a file stream designator concept could be nice 00:30:10 hoeq_ [~hoeq@h-66-64.A216.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 00:30:10 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:11 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:30:11 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 00:30:12 marioxcc [~user@201.132.143.86] has joined #lisp 00:30:14 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:14 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:19 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:20 dejones [~dejones@cpe-70-124-77-66.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:20 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:21 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:22 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:30:26 drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:27 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 00:30:31 GammaRays [~user@77.246.230.163] has joined #lisp 00:30:32 necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:36 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 00:30:39 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:30:40 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:16 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:54 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 00:32:30 though your file-size implementation is horrible 00:33:28 Anyone know the term colarsh? (i don't know if I have spelled it right, but it's a form of art) 00:33:28 And doesn't necessarily work. 00:33:36 "Collage"? 00:33:55 -!- guenthr [~unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:10 jcowan: yes. 00:34:26 So I have invented a new term Collage-oriented-programming 00:34:56 tic [~tic@c83-249-194-61.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:34:57 Where you smear the code all over the editor, like in perl. 00:34:59 jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 00:35:06 I think "bricolage" is probably a more apt term. 00:35:07 It does not lead to anything good. 00:36:10 or "baroque" 00:36:35 with or without the "a" 00:36:49 adeht: that would not be perl. 00:37:14 I was trying to describe languages like perl. (maybe a bit off topic) 00:37:35 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 00:38:25 adeht: sb-posix is a prefix away for all the reliability of Unix system calls :-) 00:38:58 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:40:12 knobo: actually it looks like a very nice adjective 00:40:56 Indeed, there is a CMS written in Perl called Bricolage, it seems. 00:41:13 not only does it suit Perl's excessive syntactic "ornamentation" and complexity, but it also serves as a nice "baroque pearl" pun, and likely meshes well with Larry Wall's religious beliefs 00:41:46 http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-bricolage.htm 00:45:03 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440197.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:45:13 jcowan: Bricolage? Fits, given that a well-known web toolkit/framework in Perl was called Mason... 00:45:40 *jcowan* chuckles. 00:45:52 jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:33 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:51 "I always thinks it's a compliment when someone says Perl is baroque. I just think of J.S. Bach. He wrote a lot of way cool stuff. Handel also had his moments." -- Larry Wall 00:50:30 (the "I always thinks" is sic) 00:51:01 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:51:12 moogleno1ph [~marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:41 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-056-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 00:51:55 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.75.91] has joined #lisp 00:52:23 so did Jack Handy 00:52:29 ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 00:52:32 Hi, I have an SGML document without a DTD. I'm trying to parse it with cxml: it is of a form that would make this fine, except that it uses the & entity and cxml chokes on that, giving "entity AMP not defined" 00:52:56 How should I specify that entity for cxml? 00:53:14 Is there any reason, other than historical accident, that EQ(L) doesn't equate empty arrays of the same type, as it equates empty lists? 00:54:38 jcowan: aren't empty arrays created fresh, and contain fill-pointers, and other "metadata"? 00:54:54 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:54:56 two empty arrays can be completely different, depending on the arguments to make-array 00:55:00 I suppose I should say empty simple arrays. 00:55:25 But I did say "of the same type"; obviously it is not sensible for "" to be EQ(L) to #(). 00:55:42 jcowan, there is only one empty list, but empty arrays are different objects 00:55:46 Still it seems odd that (EQ "" "") is implementation defined rather than NIL. 00:56:03 er, rather than T. 00:56:11 (eq "" "") is implementation dependant because you're using literal strings 00:56:24 (eq (make-string 0) (make-string 0)) is always NIL, though 00:56:48 clhs make-string 00:56:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_stg.htm 00:56:55 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1177684015.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:57:24 That page doesn't seem to say so. 00:57:57 it doesn't need to. make-string creates a new object 00:57:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-9.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:26 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-9.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:58:27 literal vs consed-at-runtime data is a pretty basic semantic issue, and not relevant to your question 00:58:39 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.147] has joined #lisp 00:59:00 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:01 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:15 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:59:37 the key difference here is that there is only one empty list. (list) doesn't create an empty list, it just returns _the_ empty list. 00:59:59 I understand that. 00:59:59 NIL is a pointer hardcoded in the lisp heap 01:00:18 everything else is allocated space and created fresh 01:00:28 when in doubt, use equalp 01:00:36 But make-string says "returns a simple string", whereas make-array says "creates and returns", and cons says "returns a fresh". I think it's just an assumption that make-string must create a string when its first arg is zero. 01:00:50 An assumption not warranted by the spec. 01:00:59 I've seen people say that it's not possible to portably obtain slot names of structures, however I've never had problem with using the MOP to do so. Is it unreliable to use the MOP for such purposes? 01:01:13 jcowan, it does say "a string is constructed" 01:01:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/95453 01:01:32 Okay, I concede. 01:01:33 ljames: closer-mop is fairly reliable. horray for defacto! 01:01:37 \o/ 01:01:53 the problem is that there's no standard struct MOP 01:01:55 ljames: if you're accessing structure slots by name via the mop, just use a class! :) 01:02:10 however, using the MOP, you could introspectively discover your implementation's struct MOP \o/ 01:02:21 thus, there's a standard struct MOP MOP 01:02:40 *jcowan* cleans his mop with a mop mop. 01:02:46 also known as "the MOP" :D 01:03:27 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-223-221.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:04:06 It's fractal! 01:04:56 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:06:05 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:08:49 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 01:09:47 notbryce [~bryce@129.244.135.248] has joined #lisp 01:09:58 HEY 01:10:12 clhs macrolet 01:10:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm 01:11:05 how can I expand a list of arguments that depend on a condition 01:11:10 ie a better way to write this: 01:11:12 (max-value #NEWBOARD# nil 1 (if alpha-beta? t nil) 01:11:12 (if alpha-beta? alpha nil) 01:11:12 (if alpha-beta? beta nil)) evalcount) 01:11:18 whoah! 01:11:21 stop right there. 01:11:27 minion: tell notbryce about lisppaste 01:11:28 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 01:12:19 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-112-135.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:26 notbryce pasted "dumb fun call" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95454 01:14:06 sorry! 01:14:20 Ugh. Can I get cxml to parse ASCII? 01:14:47 moogleno1ph: it should do that without especially trying to. 01:15:21 Xach: I'm getting a not valid code point error on a totally innocous-looking line 01:15:25 Note that the standard entity is named "amp", not "AMP". 01:15:41 jcowan: yeah, I just fixed that by doing a search-replace :-) 01:15:49 notbryce, your indentation could be a bit saner... 01:16:00 moogleno1ph: what code point does it find invalid? 01:16:18 #x2E8E896E 01:16:26 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:16:27 The plight of the 48,000 civilians in the town is a ``major 01:16:31 is the offending line 01:16:53 Adlai: well I had those if's lined up but i really dont even want it to be on multiple lines 01:17:35 I'd like just a single if statement that returns the list of the arguments but I have to then get the list items out of the list 01:17:36 *Adlai* annotates 01:17:49 notbryce: you could use an APPLY if you want to avoid those IF's, but it'd be slightly slower. 01:17:59 could use multiple-value-call 01:18:08 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-9.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:11 Adlai annotated #95454 "using MULTIPLE-VALUE-CALL" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95454#1 01:18:20 moogleno1ph: does a hexdump show anything odd? 01:18:38 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-9.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:18:49 interesting 01:18:52 this is a strange function 01:18:54 Xach: What program should I use to do that, and what would "odd" be? 01:18:55 ljames annotated #95454 "or with APPLY" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95454#2 01:19:12 oops, mistake there 01:19:24 alternatively, could rethink max-value's interface 01:19:39 Xach: program: emacs, of course... still donno what "odd" would be 01:19:44 notbryce, it's not a function 01:19:49 clhs m-v-c 01:19:50 MULTIPLE-VALUE-CALL: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_multip.htm 01:19:57 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:20:11 ljames annotated #95454 "fixed previous post" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95454#3 01:20:19 http://paste.lisp.org/display/95457 01:20:23 my hexdump 01:22:04 The 2e8e8 it is complaining about doesn't even seem to be in there 01:22:05 adeht: agreed but I didnt set up the method, I have to implement it 01:22:39 anyways, thank you, friends 01:22:55 notbryce, is this part of the Google AI challenge? 01:23:10 no, for an AI class 01:23:51 moogleno1ph: i got nothin'. hard for me to see where the code point in your error relates to the input. 01:25:00 Xach: so I'm justified in thinking this is really weird? oh, well, I'll decend into that morass later then. I was hoping getting these documents parsed would be a 45minutes-ish affair 01:25:11 Xach: thanks for taking a look 01:25:22 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:26 btw notbryce, #NEWBOARD# is quite a strange variable name as # is usually used a dispatch macro character, unless #NEWBOARD# is not a variable name at all? 01:30:38 minion: memo for gigamonkey: can you please add a link to the table of contents, prev/next chapters, and home to the online version of the book? 01:30:39 Remembered. I'll tell gigamonkey when he/she/it next speaks. 01:33:27 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:14 -!- marioxcc is now known as abc 01:34:20 -!- abc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 01:34:32 ljames: hah, yeah its just a place holder 01:37:05 marcelinollano [~marcelino@83.33.14.18] has joined #lisp 01:38:12 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.75.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:42:07 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:42:13 *fusss* used his first restart-case 01:42:29 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-144-21.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:46:21 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:48:34 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-9.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:30 smanek [~smanek@63.74.178.2] has joined #lisp 01:50:35 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@83.33.14.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:50:51 fusss, there's no going back now! 01:51:12 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-9.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:52:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:53:30 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:54:35 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:52 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:01:53 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:02:20 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:02:58 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:03:20 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:08 -!- skeptomai [~cb@67.40.185.246] has quit [Quit: Ok, I'm outta here] 02:07:13 -!- enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.12] has quit [Quit: brb, router hop.] 02:17:45 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 02:17:55 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-9.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:37 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-9.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:19:43 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:25:48 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:26:08 hmmm 02:26:41 (all-matches-as-strings "foo\\s+(.+)\\s+bar" "foo bla bla bar") 02:26:51 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:26:51 I want just "bla bla" 02:27:08 but tis returning the foo and bar delimeters as well 02:27:31 what part of regexes am i misunderstanding? i thought the paren meant capture 02:29:32 using do-register-groups and a handy return-from for now 02:30:47 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:22 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:25 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: I leave you with this image of geek hell: dinky computer screen, a filthy keyboard that *sometimes* works, and a computer running Windows Vista with a thousand floppy drives networked together and used as RAM.] 02:35:15 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:36:45 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-9.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:40 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.92.207] has joined #lisp 02:37:47 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:41 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-9.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:41:14 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-112-135.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 02:42:04 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 02:43:11 -!- smanek [~smanek@63.74.178.2] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:44:06 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@port-12710.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:46:37 jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has joined #lisp 02:48:34 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:54 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:54:36 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:50 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:58:45 -!- jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59:06 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 03:00:26 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1177684015.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:04 fusss: you're asking for matches, and that entire string is a match. 03:02:30 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:02:37 fusss: if you wanted just "bla bla," you'd have to use a regexp that matched *that*, not the entire string. 03:03:45 fusss: how paren'd submatches are used depends on the API, and I'm not familiar with cl-ppcre, but I usually see them used for substitution. 03:05:00 smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:09:28 konr` [~user@187.88.209.222] has joined #lisp 03:10:45 -!- konr [~user@187.88.209.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:01 -!- konr` [~user@187.88.209.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:51 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:16:10 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:16:17 -!- Algid [~dash@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:18:06 -!- nunb [~nundan@112.110.1.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:19:14 fusss: You can try something like: (cl-ppcre:all-matches-as-strings "(?!foo\\s+)\b(.+)(?=\\s+bar)" "foo bla bla bar") 03:19:39 fusss: You might have to tweak that a bit depending on your actual use case. 03:20:13 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:22:46 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.150] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:24:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:25:23 Anybody know where CFFI gets legal values for :encoding on :strings? 03:29:13 a ha! It gets them from babel. 03:31:58 -!- notbryce [~bryce@129.244.135.248] has quit [Quit: notbryce] 03:34:38 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:35:30 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:35:35 TR2N` [email@89.180.235.140] has joined #lisp 03:37:22 HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 03:38:07 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:53 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:39:45 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 03:40:19 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.150] has joined #lisp 03:40:24 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:42:36 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:43:51 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:44:08 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.92.207] has left #lisp 03:44:43 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:51:02 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:17 KimoOta [~tom@68-185-38-167.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:57:00 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 03:58:46 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:55 (list "foo" "bar") ==> printed as: foo bar 03:59:45 (format t "~{ ~S ~}" (list "foo" "bar")) prints them as "foo" "bar", with quotes 04:00:18 how do I make the aesthetic ~A control do iteration? 04:00:30 -!- benny [~benny@i577A860C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:02:08 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:58 fusss pasted ":-(" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95471 04:03:18 enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:33 sadly, it's quicker to write a util than lookup format or loop quirks 04:04:52 Format should really be replaced by a combinator library. 04:05:11 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:05:29 Hello lispers. I'm from an R and python background. Why should I learn lisp? 04:05:41 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:52 KimoOta: to discover what you have been missing 04:07:07 if anything 04:09:59 fusss: I don't understand your format problem? (to get "foo bar" you can do "~{~A~^ ~}") 04:11:24 KimoOta: you shouldn't learn Lisp.. if you are set on learning Lisp, however.. pick up a nice book like PCL.. then, if you have technical questions, you can ask them here 04:12:18 adeht: OK, why shouldn't I learn it? 04:12:33 KimoOta: because we don't like trolls 04:12:52 (we got too many of them) 04:13:04 I'm asking a serious question. I keep hearing about how nice lisp is. 04:13:09 ltriant [~ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 04:13:28 The answers are serious answers, KimoOta. 04:14:02 Which did you learn first, Python or R? 04:14:16 I learned C first, then Python and C#, then R 04:14:58 R supposedly has some commonalities with lisp - nearly everything's a list and it's a functional language 04:15:48 Lisp is a Swiss-army knife language. Not only is there more than one way to do it, there are an infinite number of ways, because you can use the built-in ones or roll your own ad infinitum. 04:16:03 Algid [~dash@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:12 Lisp is ideal for messing about with problems that are hard to characterize, because you will never come to a stop and say "I can't do any more of this problem without switching languages." 04:16:48 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.194.225] has joined #lisp 04:16:51 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.194.225] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:17:13 nunb [~nundan@112.110.44.19] has joined #lisp 04:18:59 -!- marioxcc-AFK [~user@201.132.143.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:29 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 04:22:20 gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.249.11] has joined #lisp 04:25:30 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:25:32 -!- gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.249.11] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:25:54 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:26:19 Yeah, unless you need first class continuations or sandboxing or ... (assuming that you are talking about CL). 04:30:09 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:48 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:31:08 RecycleCorn [~RecycleCo@201.160.241.105.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 04:31:26 Tired of Niggers and their monkeyshines? Can't join the KKK because you are not White? This is Billy Mayes here with an amazing new website! Chimpout Forum! http://www.chimpout.com/forum Chimpout Forum welcomes anybody who hates niggers and isn't a nigger. Asian? No Problem! Jewish? We have Jewish mods! Mexican? Bienvenido amigo! No matter what race you are, join us if you hate niggers! 04:32:37 -!- RecycleCorn [~RecycleCo@201.160.241.105.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [K-Lined] 04:33:01 Great. 04:33:38 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:33:42 tonight's Lisp meeting was pretty awesome. 04:33:54 *jcowan* remembers the good old days when we only had Canter & Siegel to deal with. 04:35:58 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-211-117.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37:55 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-237-77.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 04:44:55 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:46:02 bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:24 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 04:59:15 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:59:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:00:56 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:16 lnostdal [~lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 05:09:48 -!- rullie [~rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176152733.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:11:05 rullie [~rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176149683.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:12:15 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:12:54 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:13:04 cl-store, what a piece of work 05:13:37 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 05:13:41 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:13:41 it can form the basis of a portable CL core format 05:14:28 And this is a bad thing how? 05:14:29 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:00 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-azultqkophgyvkvw] has joined #lisp 05:16:25 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-211-117.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:46 actually, form the basis how? 05:19:37 who said it was bad? 05:19:56 basis as in trivial-save-lisp-and-die 05:20:15 dump image in one lisp load in another 05:21:02 "What a piece of work" is an idiom meaning "What a total disaster" or "What a complete asshole". 05:21:18 sorry, "what a fine piece of work" 05:22:16 Ah. 05:23:23 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has left #lisp 05:23:43 and, again, form the basis how? What can it save more than make-load-form or printing readably? 05:24:50 -!- nunb [~nundan@112.110.44.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:27:31 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:26 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:36:31 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:25 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:52 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 05:39:36 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:40:25 -!- psykotic [~psykotic@112.142.83.182] has quit [Quit: psykotic] 05:40:41 fusss: we already have portable cross-compiler serialization format for dumping s-expressions. 05:41:16 it's called source code in files :) 05:41:22 -!- b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:46:25 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440197.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 05:46:54 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 05:49:02 -!- ram0x62 [~ram@home.ramandgita.com] has left #lisp 05:53:35 psykotic [~psykotic@112.142.83.182] has joined #lisp 05:58:38 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 05:58:56 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:58:59 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has joined #lisp 06:04:13 Good morning! 06:07:05 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:07:23 Kaonashi [~root@ppp118-210-24-214.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:52 Wraithan [~wraithan@li76-252.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:11:24 Weblocks vs UCW (and others) Mainly looking for a setup to do webdevelopment with lisp 06:12:11 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-199-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:12:13 I've used lisp a little and most of my web development background is Python/Django based if that sort of information helps in recommending what I should use 06:12:43 I used weblocks a long time ago and it wasn't bad for the general case. 06:12:59 It has probably improved by now. 06:16:37 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:16:39 benny` [~benny@i577A7BC2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:17:22 -!- easyE [42bFesU9A6@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:18:59 I, surprisingly, found UCW slightly easier to understand lately - I was always lost in Weblocks navigation, but it probably changed for the better 06:19:01 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 06:20:48 -!- benny` is now known as benny 06:29:20 easyE [zrYSK5HFZW@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 06:31:03 Reaver2 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 06:32:45 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:34:48 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:37:34 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:39:25 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:41:20 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:50 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:17 Wraithan: plain hunchentoot is useful 06:49:26 i found the web frameworks to be a headache 06:49:40 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:49:52 and i say that as someone who launches a webservice every week 06:50:44 I had decided to try out UCW since it works nicely with apache supposedly, but it appears hunchenroot does that as well 06:50:45 -!- dabd [~dabd@a85-139-97-227.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:51:05 fusss: What was your problem with the frameworks if you don't mind being more specific 06:51:22 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 06:51:32 hunchentoot sits behind apache, or nginx, lor lighttpd, or pound, or varnish, etc. it just needs a proxy, not another web server 06:52:52 Wraithan: non-existant documentation, tons of handwaving and references to rails or other frameworks, the unnecessary shoe-horning of continuations on top of CL, way too high level GUI like DWIM API, etc. 06:55:12 It might be interesting to have a web framework in the spirit of X11. 06:55:23 ohohoho 06:55:25 crash every 5 minutes? 06:55:33 syko: Less stupid, please. 06:55:42 Zhivago: less X11, please. 06:55:55 syko: Can you provide reasoning? 06:56:00 If one were to put it in Python terms (I am sure #lisp loves crap like this) using hunchentoot would be similar in a fashion to using webpy? 06:56:05 it works great most of the time, but then it will randomly crash in a multitude of cycling colours when you annoy it 06:56:16 ^ 06:56:43 Wraithan: yes :-) 06:56:53 You appear have suffered sufficient brain-damage to be unable to distinguish between your favourite implementation and a specification. 06:56:59 nostoi [~nostoi@184.Red-79-154-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:31 i'd be quite happy with my xorg if they didn' break xmodmap behavior regularly :( 06:57:35 Zhivago: you appear to have lost your sense of humor somewhere on your RtL 06:57:56 fusss: alrighty, thanks. I think I will give that a go 06:58:01 My sense of humour is intact, which why I do not find you amusing. 06:58:19 nunb [~nundan@112.110.22.7] has joined #lisp 06:58:26 how should i put this...no? 06:58:37 nunb, you just stepped into the middle of a mexican stand-off 06:58:41 guaqua: is that why every couple of days my keyboard changes keymaps to something other than dvorak after xscreensaver's screen lock has kicked in? 06:59:13 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:19 -!- Reaver2 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:59:21 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-211-117.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:59:25 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 06:59:30 sykopomp: that sounds bad aswell. mine just refuses to remap the locks, so that i can't do the elementary caps lock <-> left control switch :( 06:59:46 :( 07:00:30 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:01:42 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:01 Hun [~hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:02:50 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:03:23 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:04:01 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:04:16 -!- enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: *thud*] 07:04:51 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:06:52 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:10:35 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:11:52 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 07:18:21 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 07:18:24 good morning 07:20:38 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.152] has joined #lisp 07:20:48 jiang [~user@122.78.253.128] has joined #lisp 07:21:54 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 07:22:37 -!- jiang [~user@122.78.253.128] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:24:38 jiang [~user@122.78.253.128] has joined #lisp 07:24:53 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 07:25:10 -!- rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:27:50 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:49 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:32:54 rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:32:55 -!- jiang [~user@122.78.253.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33:40 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:36:16 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:37:11 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:39:14 -!- HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:42:56 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:44:17 -!- rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:44:43 -!- Kaonashi is now known as Tanami 07:44:55 rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:45:11 good morning 07:45:17 hello mvilleneuve 07:45:52 -!- Tanami is now known as Kaonashi 07:46:28 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@184.Red-79-154-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:49:21 -!- rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:51:13 This may be a holy war question, but I've setup and used both ccl and sbcl and couldn't see much difference in my day to day usage, so I am curious which you guys would recommend installing on my server for hunchentoot 07:51:51 rswarbrick [rupert@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:54:00 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.150] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:54:41 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:55:15 sierinjs [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has joined #lisp 07:55:33 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:55:56 I tried (handler-case SIMPLE-ERROR and (handler-case 'SIMPLE-ERROR, but both of those failed on execution, why? :/ 07:56:41 <_3b> clhs handler-case 07:56:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_hand_1.htm 07:57:41 Hmm, seems it not that simple.. >_< 07:58:09 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:59:48 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 08:01:06 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:03:01 Wraithan: a year ago, I saw strange behavior in with-output-to-string on ccl with threads and hunchentoot. that may have been fixed back then, but I switched to sbcl, and haven't looked back (: 08:03:01 -!- sierinjs [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:03 antifuchs: ended up with sbcl, since it is the one that is mentioned in the hunchentoot install 08:04:09 antifuchs: thanks though :) 08:06:13 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:06:33 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:11:33 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:12:44 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:07 mega1 [~quassel@pool-04a07.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:21:03 Fufie [~poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:22:05 xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:22:13 fiveop [~fiveop@g229069245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:23:45 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:24:16 Wraithan pasted ".emacs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95474 08:24:25 I remember my friends commenting when I first setup emacs/slime that I missed a step because I get * instead of CL-USER> 08:24:55 And I just set it all up again (new system and I appear to not be getting the CL-USER> prompt 08:26:04 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:27:08 Wraithan: (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) 08:27:46 -!- KimoOta [~tom@68-185-38-167.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:27:54 splittist [~513ee93d@gateway/web/freenode/x-hcpodcgqsjksrosi] has joined #lisp 08:27:58 morning 08:30:05 tcr: Ah thank you 08:31:02 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 08:35:31 CL-USER> (disassemble '(lambda (x) x)) 08:35:31 ;;; Compiling (DEFUN C::GAZONK ...). 08:35:31 ;;; Emitting code for C::GAZONK. 08:35:34 Hah 08:38:30 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-azultqkophgyvkvw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:39:31 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-67.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:43:31 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 08:43:41 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-qxcqyudxmyihjjlf] has joined #lisp 08:45:04 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ylhorgmqayjqljbl] has joined #lisp 08:48:53 morning 08:50:19 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:44 -!- nunb [~nundan@112.110.22.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:53:06 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-qxcqyudxmyihjjlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:54:19 Ok, attempting to load hunchentoot and it is telling me it can't find TRIVIAL-BACKTRACE google is being no help at all and I installed hunchentoot via clbuild 08:54:34 common-lisp.net might be a place to start. 08:56:13 Ah, it seems trivial-backtrace was not set as a dependency as far as clbuild is concerned and so it was not installed 08:56:54 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7553d5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:17 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:57:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:25 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@128.12.248.104] has quit [Quit: saikatc] 08:59:04 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:01:00 saikatc [~saikatc@128.12.248.104] has joined #lisp 09:02:01 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:04:02 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:45 wvdschel [~wim@vpnj155.ugent.be] has joined #lisp 09:05:34 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229069245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 09:06:44 tcr: gcl ? 09:07:42 ecl 09:08:03 Hmm, other than the hunchentoot tests not respecting that I am running on my server in /lisp instead of directly on the domain, hunchentoot is pretty neat 09:08:50 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-89-223-192-59.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:11:22 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:03 how do you get the documentation of a function from the REPL? 09:14:15 Describe is usually useful for that. 09:18:03 Zhivago: thank you 09:22:47 (documentation function-name 'function) should also work if you need to do it programmatically, though it only gives you the docstring, while describe gives you a lot more info. 09:26:47 schaueho [~user@89.204.137.99] has joined #lisp 09:26:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:56 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.1] has joined #lisp 09:27:17 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:30:19 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-182-80.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 09:31:06 ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:31:09 wvdschel: in emacs/slime you can install ansi-standard documentation as info-files, so you get detailed informations via C-h S. 09:31:36 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:31:45 trebor_dki: I'm currently emacs-less 09:32:04 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@128.12.248.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:09 saikatc [~saikatc@128.12.248.99] has joined #lisp 09:32:38 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:34:06 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ylhorgmqayjqljbl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:35:49 wvdschel: it works with info from terminal, too. but i have to admit, that its not so usesfull outside emacs, after all you can use it without internet/x11 ;) 09:36:48 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:39 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:43:17 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 09:45:48 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-aamdsxcktcnuspjd] has joined #lisp 09:47:06 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.152] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:49:06 is the video of Mikel Evins's talk up yet? I can't access tclispers.org for some reason. 09:49:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:48 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 09:53:13 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:54:12 athlon [~user@165-94-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:15 hi 09:54:52 does anybody know good lisp code formater for emacs? 09:55:11 tab? 09:55:56 what is tab? 09:56:02 key 09:56:21 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:56:23 or M-q 09:56:28 I hear that Emacs has all sorts of lisp modes. 09:56:36 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 09:56:45 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:56:48 athlon, use Slime 09:57:05 it integrates with Emacs's normal lisp indentation facilities, and makes it better for CL code 09:57:42 note: "lisp" means "common lisp" in this channel, if not further qualified. 09:58:03 i try 09:58:07 m-q 09:58:17 it's shit 09:58:41 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AD24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:51 shit in, shit out, as they say 09:58:55 -!- psykotic [~psykotic@112.142.83.182] has quit [Quit: psykotic] 09:59:12 use slime 09:59:33 emacs only indents elisp, unless you use a better mode 10:01:41 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 10:08:51 I usually type all my defuns on a single line (no matter the length) then copy/paste it into the slime repl, surround it with (pprint ), run that, then copy and paste the result back into the editor. *very* efficient. Plus I like typing lisp code in all caps. 10:08:54 -!- athlon [~user@165-94-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:11 athlon [~user@165-94-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:11 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AD24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:10:33 -!- athlon [~user@165-94-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 10:10:49 Are there any html templating setups that are more here is my html with a little bit of additional stuff that gets replaced by the templating engine, and less lets write html but not using html directly 10:13:59 yes, yaclml or something like that it is called 10:14:11 part of uncommon web i think 10:14:26 check cliki 10:15:26 yaclml is one of those that doesn't bother with real html and is its own language 10:15:36 same as cl-who 10:16:01 not necessarily i think 10:16:29 ucw definitely has some html-template thing in which specific parts are replaced 10:16:52 but that might not be yaclml, indeed 10:17:59 nah, you're right, they just have very little in the way of examples 10:18:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:01 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@128.12.248.99] has quit [Quit: saikatc] 10:22:23 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn141.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 10:23:44 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 10:25:53 saikatc [~saikatc@128.12.248.99] has joined #lisp 10:26:59 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 10:29:50 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:32:35 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:33:01 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:33:56 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:34:25 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 10:34:46 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:36:43 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:38:00 trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 10:38:01 rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-67-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 10:38:50 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:38:56 -!- schaueho [~user@89.204.137.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:40:41 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 10:41:17 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:42:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:01 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-42-56.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 10:45:22 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-44-39.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:46:38 schaueho [~user@89.204.137.99] has joined #lisp 10:47:57 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 10:48:42 -!- splittist [~513ee93d@gateway/web/freenode/x-hcpodcgqsjksrosi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:50:51 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:54:21 athlon [~user@165-94-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:43 splittist [~513ee93d@gateway/web/freenode/x-mzfxqlzrqzwyfrzy] has joined #lisp 10:58:01 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-04a07.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:02:23 Wraithan: HTML-TEMPLATE is what i use most of the time for templates. 11:07:20 poet [~poet@ppp-70-225-162-227.dsl.chmpil.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:20 -!- poet [~poet@ppp-70-225-162-227.dsl.chmpil.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:07:20 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 11:07:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:30 nunb [~nundan@112.110.21.132] has joined #lisp 11:11:48 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 11:11:57 marcelinollano [~marcelino@83.33.13.116] has joined #lisp 11:13:05 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:14:42 -!- nunb [~nundan@112.110.21.132] has left #lisp 11:16:29 -!- wvdschel [~wim@vpnj155.ugent.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:22:56 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@83.33.13.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:25:51 marcelinollano [~marcelino@81.172.30.12.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:26:40 ruepel0r [~rue@77-21-138-135-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:45 marcelinollan [~marcelino@83.33.13.116] has joined #lisp 11:27:53 -!- ruepel0r [~rue@77-21-138-135-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:30:42 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@81.172.30.12.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:31:40 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:32:30 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-167-135-102.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:32:31 ls 11:32:35 oop 11:32:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:40 dammit! i did it again! 11:32:47 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:51 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 11:33:57 -!- marcelinollan [~marcelino@83.33.13.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:35:05 HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:36:42 marcelinollano [~marcelino@81.172.30.12.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:36:43 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@81.172.30.12.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:18 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:39:33 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 11:41:38 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 11:44:40 unicode [~user@95.214.38.189] has joined #lisp 11:46:55 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:47:32 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-173-237.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:50:36 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-131-9.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:51:37 http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/rankings.php 11:51:57 current Rank 1 is CL 11:52:24 there are zillions of C++ 11:55:05 Screenshot, quick! 11:55:29 ustunozgur [~ustun@pcozgur.ee.bilkent.edu.tr] has joined #lisp 11:56:10 Not that I don't have confidence in Gabor... 11:57:42 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:58:32 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:23 nice! 12:02:10 silenius [~jl@2a01:238:e100:320:21f:c6ff:fed7:73bb] has joined #lisp 12:02:16 cool (: 12:03:24 heh, I'm getting an internal server error 12:03:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08:35 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 12:10:16 ruepel0r [~rue@77-21-138-135-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:10:42 *hefner* is amused to scan through his blog posts and find mega1 plays Fallout 2, iron-man style. Awesome. 12:10:57 i missed the moment of glory i guess 12:11:05 now the C++ entry is on top 12:15:49 -!- athlon [~user@165-94-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:30 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:21:01 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:21:26 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:26:51 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-89-223-192-59.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:28:40 clayraat [~skyr@217.23.124.154] has joined #lisp 12:28:56 mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:31:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:15 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:34:39 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34:45 look again now! 12:35:42 aefkei [~quassel@lagarto.irisa.fr] has joined #lisp 12:36:00 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 12:43:18 Hi all. I'm a relative newcomer to Lisp, and in a bit of a pickle: any help would be greatly appreciated. 12:43:55 Here goes: I am trying to call a function from a "test" package in the SBCL toplevel. 12:44:21 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:44:40 Typing (load "test.lisp"), then (in-package test), and finally (hello), works. 12:45:10 the screnshot from Google-AI-Challenge, CL-leader: http://dkicomp.dki.tu-darmstadt.de/~robert/GoogleAIChallenge.png 12:45:16 Typing (progn (load "test.lisp") (in-package test) (hello)) doesn't. 12:45:49 aefkei: that's because that form is _read_ before being _evaluated_. 12:45:58 To me, this is puzzling, even after some googling and reading (parts of) the Hyperspec. 12:46:21 Therefore test.lisp is not loaded before hello is interned in the current package, and the current package is not changed before (whatever-package-you-were-in::hello) is called. 12:47:20 aefkei: if you really need to do it in one form, you could write: (progn (load "test.lisp") (in-package test) (funcall (find-symbol "HELLO" (find-package "TEST")))) 12:47:35 Wait. I hear what you are saying, but Hyperspec says : "progn evaluates forms, in the order in which they are given". 12:47:58 Yes, but to do so, it must be READ first. 12:48:08 The symbols are interned when READ, not when executed. 12:48:59 just thought I'd have a play with the CL code for the google AI challenge 12:49:04 Wow. Thanks for the explanation. 12:49:30 but the core file made by the makefile doesn't want to load, because of "invalid magic number in core" 12:49:54 becaus it's not core? 12:50:09 but an executable 12:50:10 aefkei: you may have a look at this paper, to get some perspective on the problem: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/Ambitious.html 12:50:17 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 12:50:27 (save-lisp-and-die "MyTronBot\" :executable t :toplevel #'my-tron-bot::main) 12:50:52 when I run it directly, there's no output and no CPU used either 12:50:53 I was about to ask for pointers... thanks for reading my mind! 12:50:56 hello 12:52:36 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:52:55 spacebat: you don't run it directly 12:54:32 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 12:54:32 right, I run example.sh 12:54:34 weird, on google-ai-challenge DjinnKahn has had 1 loss 15 minutes ago, now he has one game less and no losses ... 12:54:47 its a weird setup - needs java 12:54:51 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 12:56:16 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:56:56 what's the name of a (cl standard) function with the functionality that I would expect from elementp? 12:58:00 hmm, i wonder how the DjinnKhan guy suddenly forgot he had lost a game... 12:58:07 in the AI challenge 12:58:16 beach: do you have a link to some paper regarding fake copying GC? I want to investigate some ideas I was getting regarding those. 12:58:29 fiveop: i don't understand you 12:58:48 trebor_d`: even stranger, if you click his username, the loss is right there among his latest games. 12:58:49 (namely, possibility of completely multithreaded GC, with minimal amount of stopping world) 12:58:58 oh, i'm repeating trebor_d` 12:59:27 clearly this is due to Google's C++ bias. 13:00:26 stassats`: I'm looking for a function that yields true in the case (elementp a list) where a is eq to some element of list 13:01:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:56 clhs member 13:01:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_member.htm 13:02:02 fiveop: member, position, find. 13:02:04 a thanks 13:02:56 I've had the problem mulitple times. Writing maths all the time never lets me think of member instead of element. 13:03:14 hefner: C++ bias in the AI challenge? I think I'd rather expect "C++ bias in programming competitions". 13:04:23 it might not be a bias; maybe the ranking system is written in C++ 13:05:07 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:06:10 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:07:12 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:34 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:09:16 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-173-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:12 jdz, every time you upload a new bot, the games of the old bot get invalidated 13:11:00 Adlai: and they re-run the old games with the new bot? 13:11:10 nope 13:11:40 but still, the numbers on the rankings page and in the bot personal page do not match 13:11:59 the personal page still has a loss and a draw 13:12:12 the old games don't disappear from the game history 13:12:44 Adlai: it isn't like he's played an additional 38 games since the loss. something is clearly amiss. 13:13:02 and clearly he has not uploaded any new bot since feb 19 13:13:12 and the lost games are today 13:13:18 *game 13:13:20 games don't count towards your score once your opponent resubmits 13:13:52 that explains it 13:14:02 if A plays loses to B, and then B resubmits, then A's ranking won't include the loss, but A's game history will 13:14:59 so one should first develop a bot and when it is done then enter the competition with the latest version? 13:15:59 you can also just upload whatever version you want, because each submission's ranking is independant of your previous uploads 13:16:35 oh, ranking and history, now i get it. 13:17:38 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:38 funnily DjinnKahn lost against rank 727 (dfdfdf) ;) 13:18:07 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-173-237.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:19:06 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-aamdsxcktcnuspjd] has left #lisp 13:19:15 airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:46 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:22:19 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100214235838]] 13:23:04 -!- ruepel0r [~rue@77-21-138-135-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:26:35 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 13:28:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:00 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:38:27 davazp [~user@83.46.0.116] has joined #lisp 13:40:34 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-89-223-128-198.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:41:25 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440197.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:45:49 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:46:24 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:36 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:51:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:52:45 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-67.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:33 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-182-80.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:57:15 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-82-45.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:57:46 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:10 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:03:10 Jules_ [~julesjaco@cust-03-55bf2084.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #lisp 14:03:14 -!- Jules_ [~julesjaco@cust-03-55bf2084.adsl.scarlet.nl] has left #lisp 14:05:09 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 14:05:28 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 14:06:08 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn141.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 14:06:51 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.166.26] has joined #lisp 14:08:25 http://spintown79.blogspot.com/2010/02/infuriatingly-balanced-review.html references a band named "Common Lisp". 14:09:30 «Common Lisp brings some of the most elaborate, interesting, and clean production to the table this round, which lends even more to the "sci-fi" feel of the track.» 14:09:32 :D 14:09:33 Jules_43 [~julesjaco@cust-03-55bf2084.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #lisp 14:09:45 Xach: there are some references to that band on the internet too 14:09:59 http://commonlisp.bandcamp.com/track/polly-loves-the-rain-ft-joe-covenant 14:10:44 -!- Jules_43 [~julesjaco@cust-03-55bf2084.adsl.scarlet.nl] has left #lisp 14:12:06 Jules_43 [~julesjaco@cust-03-55bf2084.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #lisp 14:14:05 -!- Jules_43 [~julesjaco@cust-03-55bf2084.adsl.scarlet.nl] has left #lisp 14:16:57 I hope they don't become popular or it's going to be impossible to search for stuff 14:17:11 especially if they start pulling lyrics from the clhs 14:17:25 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:18 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:18:18 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:18:18 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:19:07 *dlowe* can imagine a cover of "We Didn't Start The Fire", but with the CL symbols as lyrics 14:19:27 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-42-2.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:07 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 14:20:10 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:25 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CA6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:40 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:31 that doesn't seem to be a pressing danger 14:23:05 I wonder if they're saying the same thing about us  14:23:36 then we find that the group is composed of CL programmers :P 14:25:15 hrehf [~s@88-134-172-72-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:28:30 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:30 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:50 airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:01 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:53 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:56 does l1sp have a rhyming dictionary of symbols yet? 14:33:21 haha 14:33:24 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:34:30 pix4 [~pixel@dslb-092-073-173-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:47 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:36 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 14:37:06 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:47 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:29 I'm trying to make a cache for files that an application has read. Anyone have a good technique for "interning" a pathname? 14:40:00 rpg: why not use a hash table with the namestring as a key? 14:40:35 rpg: hashtable with absolute path as key + mtime of the file stored in it 14:41:27 no need to use the namestring; pathnames are compared deeply by EQUAL 14:41:41 so an EQUAL hash table can use pathname keys 14:42:01 whether you need to canonicalize something about them is another question. maybe PROBE-FILE 14:42:07 and mtime might help in case the file changes between reads 14:42:07 kpreid: That's really what I was asking --- the spec just says they are "structured object"; wasn't sure whether that meant "guaranteed to be a structure and equal testable." 14:42:29 rpg: the place to look is not the pathnames doc but the EQUAL doc 14:43:03 lispm [~joswig@g224127243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:43:36 kpreid: Thanks! I was looking in the wrong place. 14:43:56 EQUAL is a non-extensible predicate so it's explained by its own page 14:44:13 p_l: mtime == file-write-date ? 14:44:41 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:06 rpg: yeah 14:45:22 TDT [~user@dhcpw80ff96b9.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 14:45:34 that's what I figured; I was just wondering whether you were arguing for direct OS access. 14:46:23 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has joined #lisp 14:46:27 rpg: depends how portable you need the code to be 14:46:35 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:46:35 jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-237-77.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:51 p_l: at least ACL + SBCL, so file-write-date is a win. 14:47:05 rpg: then you have your answer :) 14:47:18 tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:21 -!- Kaonashi [~root@ppp118-210-24-214.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: "good night."] 14:50:14 -!- aefkei [~quassel@lagarto.irisa.fr] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 14:50:31 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-173-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:01 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:51:02 splittist: the permuted symbol index is a first step. 14:51:59 pjb: true. I was wondering what soundex would make of RPLCA etc. 14:52:01 p_l: Yup. I was just being sure that you weren't implicitly saying to do something else. thanks! 14:53:49 splittist: you would have to teach it first the right pronouciation for cdr :-) 14:54:18 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-173-237.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:29 This would be useful to read lisp programs aloud too. 14:54:29 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:55:09 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has joined #lisp 14:59:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:19 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 15:02:22 mk` [~user@159.92.64.121] has joined #lisp 15:04:06 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 15:04:34 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:05:45 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:06:28 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 15:06:56 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Home time.] 15:07:07 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-173-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:32 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 15:11:39 <_8david> _3b: total shot in the dark here, but as I recall, you're generating SWFs from Lisp. Are you by any chance seeing compatibility problems with compressed SWFs on the most recent flash player? 15:15:32 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-173-237.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:16:02 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-xbwthkjtjxcldzmu] has joined #lisp 15:20:53 -!- newfurniturey [~darkcida@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:30 fiveop [~fiveop@g229069245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:24:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-169-46.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:26:00 k1 [~darkcida@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 15:30:25 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-146-224.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:29 G'morning all. 15:31:08 nyef: morning 15:31:22 *p_l* is having "Compiling C" lecture. SPARC assembly GO! :D 15:31:24 Hey nyef. What magic can we expect today? (: 15:31:49 Probably not much. I'm supposed to be doing paid work today. 15:33:36 nyef: food and shelter are good 15:33:48 -!- k1 [~darkcida@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:34:09 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:35:19 bhungy [~bhungy@unaffiliated/bhungy] has joined #lisp 15:36:33 -!- HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:38:08 k1 [~darkcida@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 15:43:20 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-173-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:43:28 carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.116] has joined #lisp 15:44:14 marcelinollano [~marcelino@83.49.129.154] has joined #lisp 15:50:54 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:52:17 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:53:06 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-xbwthkjtjxcldzmu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:54:21 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AD24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:37 -!- k1 [~darkcida@74.93.195.210] has quit [Quit: quit] 15:59:17 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:39 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:29 milanj [~milan@109.93.76.245] has joined #lisp 16:06:52 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:15 -!- Fufie [~poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:48 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 16:12:47 good morning Krystof 16:13:31 rpg: that was a very inspiring talk last night. Thank you for organizing this group :) 16:14:07 ooh 16:14:12 Another group? 16:14:13 *Xach* is sorry he couldn't make it 16:14:16 nyef: tclispers 16:14:21 Ah. 16:14:27 BLM was last night as well. 16:15:17 Xach: some day :( 16:17:31 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.166.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.166.26] has joined #lisp 16:18:45 rpg: what was it about ? 16:18:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:19:15 fe[nl]ix: designing and implementing a lisp. 16:19:33 which really turned into kind of mikel evin's road to lisp + some neat languages and ideas + categories + bard. 16:19:59 there was some clojure and haskell thrown in there, too. 16:20:02 It was by Mikel Evins, who has an interesting background on Lisp + Apple. I've never really known much about the Apple-related Lisp community. 16:22:08 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.16] has joined #lisp 16:23:20 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:18 it's an island, like the irc #lisp island, or the lispworks island 16:25:49 rpg: while trying to find the building, I accidentally drove into the post office's dock :( 16:26:06 sykopomp: Ouch. 16:26:22 Xach: There was all that interesting newton and dylan stuff about which I know next to nothing. 16:26:31 SK8, too. 16:26:47 even unlambda :P 16:27:53 rpg: outing yourself as someone who didn't read lemonodor obsessively in the early part of this decade :) 16:30:16 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.166.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:21 how was the BLM meeting? 16:30:24 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440197.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 16:30:41 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.166.26] has joined #lisp 16:31:10 *Xach* hopes to make the March meeting 16:31:32 *Xach* will even give a lightning talk! 16:31:42 bizarrefish: Yo! 16:32:10 ello 16:32:21 Xach: You should come out and visit us --- the only comparably chilly lispers. 16:32:35 I, once again, found BLM to be more interesting for the lightning talks and the after-meeting events than for the main presentation for some reason. 16:33:15 rpg: where are you from? 16:33:18 spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@122.166.166.26] has joined #lisp 16:33:25 rpg: i'd like to. i'm sure COPS, though my only source, is not the *best* source of information about the beautiful Twin Cities. 16:34:45 demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 16:35:35 -!- demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 16:35:57 ... CSI: St. Paul? 16:36:13 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:19 v4kl5tuk.c gvy234rt5jgu v346phy 16:36:19 45 16:36:19 6u 4t5 16:36:20 ujy 16:36:22 ] 46,kh;ol mp;'D 16:36:23 heh that's not too terribly far from where I live. 16:36:25 ~ 16:36:26 Cat alert! 16:36:27 1=tu7iogg?@p;[ 16:36:30 ][0 16:36:30 haha 16:36:32 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 16:36:32 ]#hni k,/ 16:36:40 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has been kicked from #lisp 16:36:55 ... it was actually two students fighting over keyboards 16:36:57 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:37:15 nyef: CSI: St. Paul -- "Nothing Happens" 16:37:17 Better if it was cats ;) 16:37:44 sykopomp: sure, but you still need to collect the evidence that nothing happened. 16:38:03 bizarrefish sits on my left ;-) 16:38:37 pjb: isn't that like trying to find evidence that the supernatural does _not_ happen? 16:38:42 *p_l* is converting him to Common Lisp 16:38:43 p_l: fights like that are better resolved outside of #lisp. 16:38:52 Xach: I wasn't the one fighting 16:38:58 (and yes, they got scolded) 16:39:12 See you all later... 16:39:22 p_l: I authorize you to act as IRC op live proxy. 16:39:36 sykopomp: somewhat. When've you're removed all the possibility that something happened, then nothing remains to have happened, so nothing should have happened. 16:39:44 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 16:39:46 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:52 s/'ve you're/ you've/ 16:40:39 grrr. google. once a pleasure, now one finds only the shit with the most flies around it. 16:40:41 Yeah! Kick them out of the room! 16:40:59 pix4: really? What are your searching? 16:41:06 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:41:31 pix4: funny you should mention that. I was trying to find some videos from last night's olympics and the top links were all awful phishing sites :( 16:41:35 Reaver2 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 16:41:48 various things. it gets less and less fun. if it's very specific like programming standards, everythings still fine. 16:41:59 ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:02 reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:42:12 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:42:21 -!- schaueho [~user@89.204.137.99] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:42:36 sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.18.131] has joined #lisp 16:44:00 -!- splittist [~513ee93d@gateway/web/freenode/x-mzfxqlzrqzwyfrzy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:44:02 I've been getting into a habit more of using devonagent for a lot of my searching, then pulling information into devonthink on stuff I find relevant. I wish there was a good linux option for these apps though. 16:44:35 -!- lispm [~joswig@g224127243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:36 pjb: for example: how long does that bruise take to heal which I got when I dropped the printed common lisp documentation? 16:44:45 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:12 pix4: that is an admirable effort towards topicality 16:45:30 Xach: thanks :D 16:46:52 Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:47:20 pix4: Searching for: how long does a bruise take to heal? gives me a Yahoo! Answers right on the spot, a Bruise wikipedia, a "How to Get Rid of a Bruise", Bruise: Definition, Synonyms from Answer.com, Bruses, How log do bruises last? from kidshealth.org and Adult Health ADvisor: Bruise. No ad, and nothing unexpected in sight. 16:47:43 I think that google remembers who you are, and returns results sorted out depending on your search history. 16:48:31 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:55 Hmm... 16:49:05 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:22 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:25 mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:49:34 lispm [~joswig@g224124189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:49:36 pjb: actually I use scroogle 16:49:42 :-) 16:50:11 ah, I see. I should stick with english 16:51:07 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:39 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 16:51:44 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has left #lisp 16:57:11 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:21 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57:39 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:57:54 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:59:03 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.4] has joined #lisp 16:59:44 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:59:49 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:01:54 Hello; in case somebody is interested, I wrote Zsh completion for clbuild: 17:02:17 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.152.138] has joined #lisp 17:03:23 stepnem: submit it for inclusion in the clbuild repo 17:04:06 fe[nl]ix: well, I did write an email to clbuild-devel, but it's "awaiting approval", as I'm not subscribed 17:04:47 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:05:07 I'm confused, what is commonly refered to as stack base and stack top? 17:05:29 tcr: top is were pop gets its data. 17:05:31 stack top should be the last value stored, i.e. most recent 17:05:33 I guess stack-top is the topmost frame 17:05:34 IIUC 17:05:36 yeah 17:05:41 tcr: base or bottom is what you get when it's empty. 17:06:04 tcr: the image is that of a stack of plates. 17:06:04 Ah ok that makes sense in case of recursive errors 17:06:38 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.152.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:07:12 the meanings of up/down in debugging aren't standardized 17:07:29 Yes, some debuggers have it wrong. 17:07:30 e.g. gdb uses the opposite meanings from sbcl 17:08:31 so trying to come up with memory rules or justifications for the terms will just lead to confusion. they'll be the wrong way around half the time anyway 17:08:37 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 17:09:55 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:57 Well, at least you may know what is right, and what software gets it wrong. 17:10:04 Well I was confused why there's need for pointers to both ends, but in case of recursive errors that makes perfect sense 17:10:11 That way you feel better, less puzzled. 17:13:05 mejja [~user@c-52b1e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:13:41 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.18.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:15:39 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:17:02 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 17:17:09 -!- Reaver2 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:17:10 -!- trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:17:24 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.38.189] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:17:37 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-173-237.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:19:07 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 17:20:53 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:48 -!- spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-212-131.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:23:50 spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-209-97.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:22 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:28:36 > 17:29:05 mrbug [~calardin@server.cvf.biz] has joined #lisp 17:30:54 Anarch [~w3@elrond.hsl.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:32:18 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:32:49 Can anyone recommend a cross-platform C library for getting backtraces? 17:33:06 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:58 -!- pix4 [~pixel@dslb-092-073-173-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: .] 17:36:02 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:36:39 ... How "cross-platform" is cross-platform? 17:37:25 AIUI, most modern unixoids have the basics for backtrace in their ABIs. 17:37:28 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 17:38:07 you mean backtrace(3)? 17:38:12 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:38:28 That too, but it's not what I was thinking of. 17:38:43 porcelina [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:01 I was thinking of something involving the stack-walker that used DWARF information to implement C++ exception-handling. 17:39:05 Unix/mac os/windows 17:39:10 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:39:26 There's a whole mess of stuff in there that basically covers 2/3 of the major platforms. 17:39:35 -!- TDT [~user@dhcpw80ff96b9.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:37 (linux and macos, possibly fbsd) 17:39:45 And windows has it's own stuff, of course. 17:40:10 backtrace(3) looks good, personally I only care about linux 17:40:51 airolson_ [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:40:58 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:40:58 -!- airolson_ is now known as airolson 17:41:42 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-89-223-128-198.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:42:17 tcr: so by "cross-platform" you mean more like "multi-architecture"? 17:42:22 *hefner* never heard of backtrace(3), wonders what other goodies he's missing out on 17:42:30 -!- mrbug [~calardin@server.cvf.biz] has quit [Quit: mrbug] 17:42:57 mrbug [~mrbug@server.cvf.biz] has joined #lisp 17:43:21 p_l: It's for ECL. I was looking for a de-facto answer. But backtrace(3) is attractive because making ECL use it is pretty non-intrusive 17:43:39 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:43:47 splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:43:51 I'm pretty sure you'll find something like it for Windows as well. 17:43:52 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:06 as it's only for debugging aid in case of crash, it's not a big deal if that feature is not available everywhere 17:44:37 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.127.36] has joined #lisp 17:44:55 mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 17:44:55 hefner: Well-working arglist display, and M-. into ECL source comming near you this evening. :-) 17:44:57 NT5.1 and later have CaptureStackBackTrace 17:45:27 -!- silenius [~jl@2a01:238:e100:320:21f:c6ff:fed7:73bb] has quit [Quit: silenius] 17:45:49 tcr: oh, cool. what happened to arglist display, anyway? it used to work, when it wasn't popping into the debugger. 17:46:08 It used to work? 17:46:08 tcr: i hope you get a beta key! 17:47:12 -!- Wraithan [~wraithan@li76-252.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:47:40 tcr: pretty sure, if you rewind to whenever in November when I was sending patches to fix issues with it 17:48:52 hefner: The old code used to grovel docstrings, but there was a typo in the code that generated those docstrings.. 17:48:58 leo2007 pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95495 17:49:21 but that's all past... juanjo made ECL store lambda list and other debug information into external files :-) 17:49:42 Any idea why slime indent my function (paste 95495) incorrectly? 17:49:47 M-. into implementation source is always cool. I really appreciate how consistently well that works in CCL when I use it. 17:49:53 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:50:08 hefner: Because it's based on TAGS M-. and M-* will continue to work once in a .c file :-) 17:50:55 leo2007: (setq lisp-simple-loop-indentation 2 lisp-loop-keyword-indentation 6 lisp-loop-forms-indentation 6) 17:51:03 tcr: I can't imagine storing lambda lists directly in the executable would take much space at all. The symbols will already be there, so it just costs a few cons cells per function. 17:51:35 tcr: not that. but some comments are not aligned with the code, see the second and fourth comments. 17:52:02 for example this one: ;; assume sss is constant in each section 17:52:12 hefner: The external debug files will contain lambda-list, file-location, and docstrings. (Any anything else you want, it's user extensible afaics) 17:52:37 anyone know what architecture SBCL for the Google AI challenge runs on? Judging by the --dynamic-space-size 2000 in the shell script, I'm guessing x86-64 17:52:44 I tested that with emacs -q and (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-banner slime-asdf)) 17:53:17 it's probably an emacs thing 17:55:27 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.228.55.196] has joined #lisp 17:57:25 hmmm.... does SBCL use red zone on x86-64? 17:57:40 (just interested, I was reading through SysV ABI for x86-64) 17:57:43 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 17:58:02 hrehf_ [~s@88-134-172-72-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:06 tcr: do you mean it is a bug in emacs? 17:58:28 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:31 -!- hrehf [~s@88-134-172-72-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:58:49 leo2007: Try if you get the same if you're in an .el file 17:59:59 leo2007 annotated #95495 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95495#1 18:00:02 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-199-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:00:13 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 18:00:21 tcr: seems fine in elisp-mode, see #1. 18:01:41 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:04:36 may depend on common-lisp-indent-function then 18:04:39 jsnell: are you here? 18:05:02 jsnell: do you understand swank's :fd-handler communication style? 18:05:21 hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:06:30 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 18:08:10 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 18:11:49 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.166.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:11:50 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 18:11:57 tcr: What's to understand about :fd-handler? 18:12:08 It's what I tend to use on win32, at least. 18:12:21 (Not that I use it often these days.) 18:13:10 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 18:13:23 I don't really understand what backend's add-fd-handler and remove-fd-handlers are supposed to do 18:13:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 18:13:50 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:14:15 Ah. I'd presume that they behave somewhat like what serve-event does with similarly-named functions. 18:14:25 -!- kami` is now known as kami 18:15:10 sbcl's implementation has some "; prevent recursion" comment 18:16:52 I'm trying to find the case of recursion 18:17:21 Exactly. 18:17:45 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:18:30 ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 18:19:24 hm ok I think I see it now... if you use sb-sys:add-fd-handler, the handler-function could be run during the execution of an earlier instance of the handler function 18:19:26 The case is you do some unrelated I/O operation such as a read-from-socket that blocks... 18:19:36 Yeah. 18:19:42 Serve-event is nasty, you know? 18:19:50 so I'm told 18:21:31 ECL does also come with a select() based serve-event but that is not automatically run by all i/o functions. User has to run serve-event explicitly 18:22:12 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.0.116] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:01 Is it advisable to have (setf *print-case* :downcase) in the init script? 18:23:06 hm but in case of threads and the user also using serve-event the same recursion could happen 18:23:09 nope 18:23:22 iirc slime does not cope that well with it 18:23:45 is that answer to my question? 18:24:04 yup 18:25:03 Thanks. In your presentation (2009 sep, I think), the macrexpand code is in downcase. Is it possible to have that without setting *print-case*? 18:25:12 dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 18:25:13 I find lowercase easier to read. 18:25:54 that was with allegro's modern mode 18:25:54 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:26:09 you could try to set *print-case* to :downcase and report any bugs 18:26:36 Just make sure that when you report problems that you mention that you use a non-default *print-case* 18:27:48 ok, there's already a package (GSLL) that runs into problem. 18:27:56 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:10 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.228.55.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:28:47 i don't see a point in changing *print-case* 18:28:59 other than seeing how things break 18:29:04 could you explain? 18:29:42 downcase is definitively easier to read 18:29:50 reading macroexpansion in upper case is really painful for me. 18:30:18 change your macroexpansion printing then 18:30:36 It's too bad you can't at least have source-case preservation for code fragments from the form being expanded. 18:31:01 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 18:31:13 uppercase macroexpansions are handy to distinguish them visually if you ever end up pasting one back into the source file 18:31:17 (Would also have the effect of possibly distinguishing elements from the source form (lower-case) from elements introduced by the macro (upper-case)). 18:31:21 (although, what nyef said) 18:31:37 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-217-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:32:03 konrad [~user@187.88.179.108] has joined #lisp 18:32:07 stassats`: how to do that macroexpansion printing? 18:32:40 leo2007: you take macroexpansion, you print it as you want 18:32:54 ?? 18:32:57 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:01 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:33:46 Is there a variable to set? 18:33:53 leo2007: swank:*macroexpand-printer-bindings* 18:34:11 -!- raison [~raison@70.90.182.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:34:37 raison [~raison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 18:35:11 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:36:35 Sternmull [~kringel@p57AAC32A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:17 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:35 NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-57-82-249-9-129.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:41 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-58-127.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:39:08 enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.5] has joined #lisp 18:39:51 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:23 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 18:41:19 tcr: i did look at it before. Do I just add an element (*print-case* . :downcase) to it? 18:41:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:46:43 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:12 that's working now. Thanks everyone. 18:47:59 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:15 -!- spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@122.166.166.26] has left #lisp 18:52:50 sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.19.153] has joined #lisp 18:55:11 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.178.109] has joined #lisp 18:57:28 -!- lispm [~joswig@g224124189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:32 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:58:56 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@83.49.129.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:32 Can the hyperdoc module use locally saved html doc? 19:00:38 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:45 no not yet 19:02:02 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 19:03:59 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.19.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:08 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:43 -!- konrad is now known as konr 19:05:49 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-211-244.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:32 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-211-244.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 19:08:07 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:10:46 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.127.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:27 -!- hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 19:11:33 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has left #lisp 19:12:00 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.127.36] has joined #lisp 19:12:38 -!- BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:13:21 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:26 ok, thanks. 19:15:38 BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 19:17:03 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:03 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:04 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:20:30 Due to the incorrect indentation of loop as shown in paste 95495, I tried using slime-indentation. But then there's some other problems. How usable is slime-indentation? 19:20:39 -!- BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:39 sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.19.153] has joined #lisp 19:22:15 mrbug_ [~mrbug@server.cvf.biz] has joined #lisp 19:24:31 BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 19:24:42 -!- mrbug_ [~mrbug@server.cvf.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:55 -!- mrbug [~mrbug@server.cvf.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:01 mrbug [~mrbug@server.cvf.biz] has joined #lisp 19:26:39 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@32.133.123.29] has joined #lisp 19:27:02 -!- mk` [~user@159.92.64.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:37 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:30:56 leo2007: i use the 'newlines make it all better' method of loop indentation myself. (loop:for baz in :bat:do ...) 19:31:36 *Xach* switched to paredit for the loop indentation, stayed for the rest 19:31:39 Cascade_ [~sfdssdf@78.148.94.3] has joined #lisp 19:31:40 New programming forum! http://www.hackersrus.info JOIN! 19:31:40 -!- Cascade_ [~sfdssdf@78.148.94.3] has left #lisp 19:32:09 Xach: I also use paredit. How do you use it for loop indentation? 19:32:17 Xach: hrm.. i use paredit.. i has its own loop indenting? 19:32:20 it has* 19:32:38 No, but indentation works better on completed forms than incomplete forms, especially for simple loop. 19:32:52 but also for case, which fouled me up many a time. 19:33:01 ah, fair enough. 19:33:21 HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:35:12 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:31 leo2007: in my opinion, if you're going to write code that looks like the code in your paste, you might actually make it _clearer_ by using TAGBODY or PROG, which will indent properly :) 19:35:33 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-236-121-77.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:33 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-236-121-77.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:35:33 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 19:35:35 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:36 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:37:52 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:37:53 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:38:03 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.127.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:56 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AD24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:40:19 drewc: I have broken that function into pieces so the indentation problem is gone. But I thought I might report the problem hoping someone can fix it. 19:40:30 BTW, is loop indentation trick? 19:41:23 tricky? 19:41:37 Not specially, but you have to parse the loop syntax to do it correctly. 19:42:18 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:51 bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:11 leo2007 pasted "slime-ccl warning" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95499 19:44:52 danly [~danleslie@S010600259c4d3771.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:06 bdowning_ [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:06 I guess that warning in paste 95499 is unavoidable. 19:47:21 pjb: the tricky bit is indenting incomplete or incorrect loop forms, which is where you want your editor to help. 19:47:29 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:47:51 splittist: right. Hence the importance of the choice of the parser. 19:48:15 -!- bdowning_ is now known as bdowning 19:48:34 pjb: indeed. Or create a loopedit that doesn't allow you to have an incorrect or incomplete loop form at any time :P 19:48:40 (let ((from 0)) (loop named from for from from from collect from)) ;-) 19:49:05 s/from/buffalo/g ? 19:49:11 (nope) 19:49:26 *splittist* slopes away 19:49:27 do defsetf and define-setf-expander duplicate (defun (setf fn) ...)? 19:49:43 leo2007: no, they don't. 19:49:51 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440197.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:50:01 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:50:03 define-setf-expander > defsetf > (defun (setf ...) ...) 19:51:40 pjb, that's not really correct 19:51:50 setf functions and setf expanders are quite different 19:52:22 Could someone explain their key differences? 19:52:25 defsetf is just a layer over define-setf-expander, though 19:52:54 What I mean, is that all you can do with a setf function you can do with a defsetf. And all you can do with a defsetf, you can do with a define-setf-expander. 19:52:56 I think ">" was used as can-be-implemented-in-terms-of relation 19:53:00 leo2007, setf expanders let you control the expansion of the setf macro, whereas a setf function is a function that you can call and stuff 19:53:08 adeht, you can't implement setf functions in terms of setf expansions 19:53:13 There are things that you cannot do with defsetf, and you have to use define-setf-expander. 19:53:14 konr` [~user@189.96.92.91] has joined #lisp 19:53:47 setf expansions only modify the expansion of one macro... setf functions are first-class function objects that you can pass around 19:54:19 heh, I had get-setf-expansion in mind 19:54:30 -!- alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@32.133.123.29] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci_] 19:55:01 -!- konr [~user@187.88.179.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:55:33 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-173-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:06 Well, ok, (setf f) is somewhat more first-class than the other setf expanders, since they are functions. I was thinking only of their use with setf forms. 19:56:12 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 19:56:43 I am more confused than before 19:57:21 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A10F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:24 poet_ [~poet@69.164.199.120] has joined #lisp 19:57:28 leo2007: There's some discussion about that in cll. 19:57:34 -!- poet_ [~poet@69.164.199.120] has quit [Changing host] 19:57:34 poet_ [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 19:57:55 -!- poet_ [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58:23 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:27 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A10F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58:51 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A10F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:42 bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:54 poet_ [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 20:01:03 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.19.153] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:02:29 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:02:33 -!- poet_ is now known as poet 20:02:38 bdowning_ [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:55 alexsuraci__ [~alexsurac@166.132.93.156] has joined #lisp 20:05:04 -!- alexsuraci__ [~alexsurac@166.132.93.156] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:28 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:05:35 -!- bdowning_ is now known as bdowning 20:07:05 Could some one answer this, when to use which? 20:07:51 Use (defun (setf f) ...) If it fails, use defsetf. If it fails, use define-setf-expander. 20:08:20 By "it fails" I mean, "there's no way to do what you want with it". 20:08:26 ok 20:08:58 Give a choice between a nuclear bomb, a buldozer and a hammer, which should I use? 20:10:26 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-173-237.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:10:27 -!- enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.5] has quit [Quit: time to get coffee and go to math class] 20:10:30 I'd phrase it as "given a choice between a function, a CL macro, and redefining part of your interpreter/compiler" 20:11:18 I just borrowed AMOP from library. 20:11:27 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:11:59 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:12:06 I've never had a need so far for where a setf function wouldn't do 20:13:18 Yes, define-setf-expander is very rarely needed. The only case I can think of right now is when you want to assign several values at once. 20:13:21 hello 20:13:34 he[nl]o :-) 20:13:43 I used define-setf-expander for agetf (getf for alists) 20:13:58 fe[nl]ix: hi 20:14:12 hi Blkt 20:14:41 -!- yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:14:49 yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 20:14:58 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:15:15 did someone write a guide how to profile lisp code with ccl? 20:17:36 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:31 you can't profile without a guide? 20:18:58 saikatc_ [~saikatc@rescomp-09-132118.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:19:00 no 20:19:02 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:11 sorry I am very inexperienced with lisp. 20:19:59 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:20:08 for example, in sbcl, i can insert (declare (optimise (speed 3))) and get some hints on how to improve but in ccl I get nothing. 20:20:09 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@128.12.248.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:20:09 -!- saikatc_ is now known as saikatc 20:20:16 there must be other ways. 20:20:18 there isn't much to learn about profiling: tell what to profile, run your code, report 20:20:30 leo2007: well, that's not profiling 20:20:35 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.127.36] has joined #lisp 20:20:40 There are general profiling libraries: http://www.cliki.net/Profiler 20:20:51 You could probably try them out as-is in ccl. 20:21:17 slime includes a general profiler 20:21:25 which works with ccl 20:21:36 sometimes 20:23:01 bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:47 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:25:07 trebor_home [~email@dslb-084-058-224-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:07 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:32 bdowning_ [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:37 hello, CL leading the board on google's ai challenge again ;) 20:25:55 *Xach* plans on how to spend his share of the prize 20:26:55 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 20:29:35 -!- BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:29:54 -!- bdowning_ [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:30:23 bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:46 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:32:06 BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 20:32:23 enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.5] has joined #lisp 20:32:34 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:33:18 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:20 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 20:33:39 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:34:10 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:34:32 hej hefner. Time for some ecl testing? 20:34:33 what difference does it make what language they used? it's the algorithm, isn't? 20:35:30 lithper2_: sure you are right, but look for java ;) 20:35:37 lithper2_: call it competition between programmers preferring different languages :P 20:35:53 lithper2_: I'm expecting a leading entry written in assembler, then 20:36:09 i mean, look after pos 300+ ;) 20:36:12 cmm-: don't forget about using non-standard ABI :P 20:36:21 hmm, you're right. i don't see java. that's odd. 20:36:27 rgawron [~rgawron@chello089079096157.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 20:36:37 lithper2_: yes, it's the algorithms. So you either spend your time on debugging your memory management, or you spend it on working out your algorithm. 20:36:57 lithper2_: and we already know that all turing-complete languages are equivalent, in case you feel compelled to point that out 20:36:58 or better, look after #600 :)) 20:37:11 pjb: strawman. 20:37:33 cmm-: i'm not :) 20:37:38 pjb, one of the leading C++ entries has no manual memory management. He claims it's all on the stack. 20:37:41 Or debugging whether it's $x or @x or whatever x. 20:37:54 p_l: there's always forth for that kind of stuff :) 20:37:55 Adlai: on stack or automatically managed? 20:37:59 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:38:15 You have to be extra careful and to contortionate your algorithm to put everything onthe stack... 20:38:26 pkhuong, iirc, the stack and standard containers 20:38:46 People used to critize Pascal because of its mark and free heap memory management... 20:38:58 A stack is even more constraining. 20:39:00 i would like to know, how java-ones deal with jit and time-management (3s/1s/...) 20:39:00 it's definitely good PR. 20:39:28 trebor_home, apparently a lot of the java submissions timed out 20:40:21 On the last page of the ranking, there are a lot of java. The last one is C. 20:40:28 and also lots of c++ code had to be re-comitted (failure) ;) 20:40:57 i am surprised about go & c#. 20:41:13 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:15 trebor_home: the problem with java entries is probably not time or memory related. But the algorithm! That is, java programmers will have spend too much time thinking about the syntax, boilerplates and classes... 20:41:29 cmm-: well, one can always remove usage of stack for anything other than return addresses for few function calls, and use only branches and jumps in small code model.. :P 20:43:17 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:44:15 pjb, one person posted his Java flood-fill algorithm, which was multiple screenfulls of code. My floodfill code uses high-order functions and recursion, and is a dozen lines long :D 20:44:38 Adlai: you could write pretty much the same thing in java. 20:44:59 But you would need more time and you would have to think harder to do so. 20:45:12 -!- konr` [~user@189.96.92.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 20:45:37 pkhuong, aren't recursive algorithms unhappy on the JVM? 20:45:52 Adlai: unhappy? 20:45:52 In my experience, you may spend one day to develop (with unit tests) the algorithm in CL, and then the rest of the week to translate and debug it in C++. 20:45:53 francogrex [~user@91.180.83.4] has joined #lisp 20:46:03 pkhuong, as in, the stack space is very constrained 20:46:28 not particularly. 20:46:49 -!- mrbug [~mrbug@server.cvf.biz] has quit [Quit: mrbug] 20:46:53 No last-call optimisation which can cramp your style. 20:47:04 Borkdude [~Borkdude@195-241-146-40.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 20:47:23 ok, I guess this guy just reduced his stack usage for other purposes 20:47:38 jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 20:49:18 -!- rgawron [~rgawron@chello089079096157.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:51:11 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:51:18 hefner: Would be cool if you could do the update ecl&slime dance once again. The combo should be solid now. 20:52:57 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.127.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:53:11 Alabaman [~badgerfac@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:22 marioxcc [~user@200.92.179.252] has joined #lisp 20:55:18 -!- splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: AI fame and solid combos - time to go] 20:58:23 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-42-2.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:00:22 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-243-239.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:00:26 sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.19.153] has joined #lisp 21:00:30 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082CA54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:43 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-243-239.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:58 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:03:50 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082FC4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:07:44 pnq [~nick@host-184.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has joined #lisp 21:08:20 -!- pnq [~nick@host-184.ssu.portsmouth.oh.us] has quit [Client Quit] 21:09:50 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:10:07 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:12:41 stassats`: I tested the profiler provided by slime. Seems working. 21:13:06 <_deepfire> Does anybody know of call graphing solutions for CL? 21:14:04 <_deepfire> Something leveraging sb-introspect and alikes to emit output suitable for graphviz/etc. 21:15:08 marklarr [~user@173-30-20-80.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:17 <_deepfire> That'd be quite useful for quick code reconnaissance. 21:16:46 ... Doesn't sound like it'd be hard to make, given who-calls. 21:17:13 <_deepfire> nyef, isn't it surprising that nobody needed it so far? 21:17:51 <_deepfire> ...that is, to the point of investing effort. 21:18:01 call graphing from my pov is more useful when you're reverse-engineering some code or probably reviewing it... 21:18:46 <_deepfire> p_l, or that just fits your style: get a feeling of the big map and then proceed with attaching detailed pieces of knowledge. 21:19:23 <_deepfire> "You shall come to a prison built of regrets and sorrow, where the shadows themselves have gone mad.." 21:19:44 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:22:06 stassats`: do you have time to investigate the indentation issue in http://paste.lisp.org/display/95495? 21:22:32 -!- Hun [~hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:16 _deepfire: there's a slime-xref-browser contrib which may have bitrotten though 21:24:35 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:15 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.34] has joined #lisp 21:26:52 SoleSoul [~d597308e@gateway/web/freenode/x-wysupxnonsdemhng] has joined #lisp 21:26:53 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-67.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:29:30 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:30:45 Greetings. I use lispworks for learning purpose. I want to try "LispIDE" from DaanSystems but it does not contain an interpreter nor recommends on. There is also no explenation on how to use it with one. Can anyone please recommend a good common lisp interpreter to use with LispIDE? Thank you. 21:31:19 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:31:42 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 21:31:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-243-239.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- francogrex [~user@91.180.83.4] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-084-058-224-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- Anarch [~w3@elrond.hsl.washington.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- mejja [~user@c-52b1e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:43 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.116] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:44 -!- danly [~danleslie@S010600259c4d3771.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:44 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-146-224.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:31:46 francogrex [~user@91.180.83.4] has joined #lisp 21:31:47 Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:31:50 Anarch [~w3@elrond.hsl.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:31:56 trebor_home [~email@dslb-084-058-224-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:58 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:00 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 21:32:02 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 21:32:06 carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.116] has joined #lisp 21:32:09 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-146-224.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:09 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:10 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:32:20 mejja [~user@c-52b1e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:32:38 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.178.109] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:32:55 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:33:34 -!- egn_ [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:33:45 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:13 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 21:35:27 leo2007: not really, i don't care about indentation much 21:35:40 ok 21:35:56 abugosh [~Adium@m4c5a36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:15 *_deepfire* sees a nfroyd commit in qemu 21:38:51 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-243-239.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:25 ThomasIl [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 21:39:49 stassats`: I posted the report to slime devel. 21:40:17 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:40:40 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 21:42:34 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.67.13.76] has joined #lisp 21:42:45 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.67.13.76] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:43:11 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.67.13.76] has joined #lisp 21:43:21 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:43:31 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.67.13.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:38 -!- abugosh [~Adium@m4c5a36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:44:36 anyone used cl-yacc to parse tinyC ? 21:46:19 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:29 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:46:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: home] 21:47:28 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:47:32 PissedNumlock: the sources of tinyC ? 21:47:41 -!- Alabaman [~badgerfac@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:48:00 -!- Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- ThomasIl [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-209-97.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-155.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-245-211.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- rbancrof1 [~rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:01 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:48:04 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 21:48:05 scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 21:48:05 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 21:48:05 Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:48:09 rbancroft [~rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:10 no, programs written in tinyc 21:48:16 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 21:48:16 spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-209-97.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:16 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-155.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:17 I have to write a compiler for it 21:48:18 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 21:48:18 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 21:48:18 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:48:22 ThomasIl [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 21:48:27 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:48:34 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:48:35 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-245-211.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:35 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:48:37 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 21:48:50 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 21:48:55 <_deepfire> Hmm, a gdb server chain, fun. 21:49:14 tiny-c being fabrice bellard's formerly-obfuscated C compiler? 21:49:35 PissedNumlock: the cl-yacc author wrote a C parser 21:49:41 tinyC as in a simplified, smaller version of C 21:49:46 -!- enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.5] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 21:49:52 I know, but I cant really find its source 21:50:04 and in its example it isnt exactly clear how cl-yacc deals with spaces 21:50:26 thats why I was hoping to find a more complex example 21:50:33 dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 21:50:37 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 21:51:30 PissedNumlock: http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~jch/software/repos/cpc/ 21:51:53 <3 21:51:57 thx 21:52:16 looking at the url I should have found it myself though, didnt think of looking at his other software 21:54:10 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:57:56 and now I see why I was wrong, skipping space is done by lex, not by yacc 21:58:52 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 22:02:15 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@rescomp-09-132118.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Quit: saikatc] 22:02:20 drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:16 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 22:05:59 -!- francogrex [~user@91.180.83.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:24 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:06:47 boyscare1 [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:53 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.19.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:57 -!- boyscare1 [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:09:31 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:11:03 enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.5] has joined #lisp 22:11:03 -!- SoleSoul [~d597308e@gateway/web/freenode/x-wysupxnonsdemhng] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:14:14 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:23 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 22:20:11 brandonedens [~brandon@wsip-70-184-10-225.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:54 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1177684015.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:25:00 hi all... just wanted to drop in and ask for some information regarding complex structure layouts and cffi. I'm trying to build out bindings for yaml and in yaml.h I've encountered a struct that contains inner struct definitions wrapped in a union. Frustrating. 22:25:26 The actual frustrating part is that, typically, the union is anonymous. 22:25:46 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:20 nyef, exactly. what is the strategy for this sort of thing? are people rolling their own interfaces that smooths over these sorts of problems ? i really want to keep it in lisp as much as possible. 22:26:52 I don't know. 22:27:09 brandonedens: the usual strategy is to write the parser in lisp and avoid FFI at all :) 22:27:17 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:27:46 Now that I'm thinking about it, however, I might try to horribly abuse the underlying FFI machinery to produce something that's a combination of a struct and a union. 22:27:57 That is, a struct wherein some of the slots are permitted to overlap. 22:27:59 drewc, *nod*. its sad. I want yaml, pulseaudio, alsa, and something like imagemagick. I'm always going back and forth on what to do. 22:27:59 hmmm... maybe something like Python's struct module? 22:28:22 (I'm semi-confident that I could make this happen in SBCL, for example.) 22:28:42 with a DSL capable of describing such structures? 22:29:05 Oh, probably not. 22:29:24 Alternately, I might consider throwing a C parser in there somewhere. 22:29:58 gruseom [~daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has joined #lisp 22:30:05 So if I have a macro like (defmacro test (name (&rest args)) ...), and a list of arguments like '(1 2 3), is it possible to call the macro with the list as separate arguments "at runtime"? As in (let ((my-list '(1 2 3))) (test 'a-name my-list)) would be equivalent to (test 'a-name 1 2 3). 22:30:30 marklarr: no. 22:30:36 Imagine this: Taking SBCL's compiler, throwing a C parser on the front-end and replacing the fasdumper with something that spits out ELF objects, and calling the resulting system "Moxie". 22:30:37 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:39 Xach: ok, thanks. 22:30:57 -!- Sternmull [~kringel@p57AAC32A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 22:31:05 marklarr: macros transform source code. the values that code might represent at runtime is not really something to go after. 22:31:44 the libyaml stuff I believe was born out of the python yaml stuff (Google SoC), as in they wrote it as an underlying library they built their stuff on top of. their strategy in alot of their library work is that they write a bunch of custom C code that provides out the interface for their python stuff. 22:32:17 Xach: I see. I'll redo stuff :-). Thanks again. 22:34:42 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-69-136-155-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:50 brandonedens: whenever i've run into trouble with ffi, i've written things in straight CL. 22:35:03 mrbug [~mrbug@cpe-67-241-10-210.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:09 Xach: what about a function with &rest? 22:35:46 marklarr: you would use APPLY in that case. 22:36:15 Xach, can cffi be modified to handle structs in a better fashion? Is that the way to win? 22:36:19 Xach: ok, I'll check it out. 22:36:24 nyef: I was thinking of using Lisp reader instead of C parser, that would generate C-like binary 22:36:28 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-89-223-173-81.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 22:36:37 (but I mentioned it way too many times) 22:36:52 p_l: That could work as well. 22:38:40 brandonedens: python programmers interface with C because they have no choice if they want fast native code ;) 22:38:56 nyef: Also, encouraged by Haskell fans success with LLVM, I did some extra research for that 22:39:04 Ooh. 22:39:18 how would I 22:39:24 brandonedens: what do you mean by that ? 22:39:25 What'd you find, if anything? 22:39:26 make a pathname with no pathname-name and pathname-type 22:39:26 -!- hrehf_ [~s@88-134-172-72-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: bfg] 22:39:28 nyef: what do you say about compiler-less ELF cores? :) 22:39:30 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:35 using merge-pathnames with *source-pathname* ? 22:39:41 drewc, yes I know. I was thinking about doing a sloccount analysis of their software across versions. It appears to me that they have been busy rewriting large sections of Python code into C for performance reasons (rather than fixing the performance problems). Its all very sad. 22:39:42 what I really want is *source-directory* 22:40:20 p_l: I say that they're nice in theory, but look like a whole lot of work, why? 22:40:33 (Not impossible, just a lot of work.) 22:40:43 for example I want to go up one level then down into "data/" relative to the directory where my source file resides... 22:40:46 brandonedens: well, in the case of the current python, some of those issues are mostly unfixable... it's a very dynamic language from what i've heard. 22:40:49 nyef: I also need to check a little regarding code generation at runtime with LLVM (as in - do we use GAS or do we use JIT backend which is much less portable?) 22:40:53 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 22:40:53 fe[nl]ix, well we do not have a yaml reader/writer. That's rather unfortunate. It'd be nice to have one along with other functionality such as that. Where is effort best focused. Should I be investing my time tinkering with cffi or should I be porting libyaml to common lisp ? 22:41:19 brandonedens: i've also head that they are working on a newer python that is a little more compilable, but i don't really pay attention to such things. 22:41:28 dcooper8: (make-pathname :file nil :name nil :defaults *source-pathname*) 22:41:39 -!- ThomasIl [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 22:41:41 aha 22:41:43 thank you 22:41:59 brandonedens: I'd make a port 22:42:21 <_deepfire> blitz_, hey, there? 22:42:29 using defaults helps, I was getting bitten using (make-pathname :directory (pathname-directory *source-pathname*)) because that works fine on Linux, then fails on Windows where it needs the device... 22:43:16 nyef: there are some interesting approaches for compiling with LLVM, also right now, without changing compilers, LLVM could be slaved to do FFI for us (clang) :D 22:43:23 brandonedens: it looks like ll(k) will do... you can check out http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-org-mode/ for inspiration 22:43:56 (or extend that parser... that's what it's for) 22:44:28 drewc: thanks. 22:46:00 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-84-225.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:46:45 also has anyone been talking about source documentation like docutils, doxygen, gtk-doc and the like? I saw in some gtk bindings the usage of LaTeX in documentation for functions and the like. 22:47:18 It made reading the documentation inside my text editor a bit difficult but probably looked quite good when rendered out. 22:48:00 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-42-56.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:48:27 brandonedens: there are utilities that pull docstrings and other basic info and generate webpage docs for you :) 22:48:30 brandonedens: scroll down in that link i gave you, it's the start of my system for that. 22:48:46 brandonedens: tcr has one as well which he'll show you a link to if you're lucky :) 22:50:08 Borkdude_ [~Borkdude@195-241-146-40.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 22:50:36 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 22:50:36 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:50:37 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 22:50:44 doesn't Edi Weitz have one? 22:51:36 indeed 22:51:59 minion, html-template? 22:52:00 html-template: HTML-TEMPLATE is a Library to use templates much like Perl's HTML::Template. http://www.cliki.net/html-template 22:52:04 http://common-lisp.net/project/hyperdoc/ 22:52:31 I guess that's tcr's. would be nice to see a demo though 22:52:52 -!- Borkdude [~Borkdude@195-241-146-40.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53:21 demo of what? 22:53:30 uh, the relevant Weitz one is documentation-template 22:53:33 tcr: nevermind, I thought yours generated HTML 22:53:45 Yes it does, but it's not public 22:53:49 hyperdoc is something else 22:53:52 ahh 22:54:13 hyperdoc is for library to register their documentation and hook into C-c C-d h in Slime 22:54:21 slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:33 *felideon* h 22:55:53 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 22:59:49 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:57 billstclair [~billstcla@p-74-209-21-72.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:57 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-74-209-21-72.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:00:57 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 23:02:50 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:03:04 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229069245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:03:46 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:07:41 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:07:43 _deepfire: you gotta try out git head + slime cvs, too 23:08:33 <_deepfire> tcr, ECL-wise, you mean? 23:08:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 23:09:17 uh yeah 23:09:56 <_deepfire> tcr, as absurd as it might sound, I didn't use Slime on ECL (I debugged under SBCL), and your recent work might change that :-) 23:10:16 not absurd at all, hefner has been doing the same 23:10:36 -!- malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:10:59 <_deepfire> Actually, I deliver on both sbcl and ecl, so it's less absurd. 23:12:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7553d5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:12 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1177684015.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:15:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:02 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 23:16:04 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:16:06 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 23:16:17 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 23:16:18 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:16:51 -!- tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:16:59 Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:18:38 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.238] has joined #lisp 23:19:03 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0A10F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22:44 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:23:03 malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:31 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:20 wvdschel [~wim@188.188.96.129] has joined #lisp 23:26:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-014.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:18 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 23:28:19 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 23:28:24 when you loop over a list, are you allowed to change the list during an iteration? 23:29:21 depends 23:29:46 adeht: depends on what? 23:29:57 on what you want to do 23:30:11 How does packaging work? I'm trying to play with Rucksack, how would I build/load it? 23:30:14 wvdschel: if you use (loop for x in list ...) then no 23:30:37 tcr: ok thanks 23:31:22 jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has joined #lisp 23:32:01 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 23:33:39 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CA6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:35:16 -!- HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:37:48 Arelius: load asdf, then use (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :rucksack) 23:38:13 Heh: http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/A104175 (From the On-Line Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences) 23:38:43 *snicker* 23:39:04 *jcowan* likes 14, 18, 23, 28, 34, ... 23:40:01 ... local stops on nyc broadway line subway? 23:40:10 #1 line, but yes. 23:40:23 Only the #1 has an 18th St. stop. 23:40:32 So the next element is Times Square. 23:40:36 Not according to the entry for id:A000053. 23:41:21 ça va ?? 23:41:24 uh 23:41:28 bad recipient 23:41:31 (Wow, there's a pile of this silliness in there.) 23:41:32 The stop is at 42nd St, it's true, but its name is "Times Square". 23:41:43 Bad Recipient! No cookie! 23:42:23 Also, "Broadway" usually refers to the N/R/Q/W line, although it's true that the #1 line is under Broadway from 42nd St. on 23:42:46 Also, the #9 is now abolished. 23:43:14 Xach: how does it know where to find rucksack? 23:44:05 -!- wvdschel [~wim@188.188.96.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:44:22 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:45:39 Arelius: there is a list of directories asdf will search 23:46:15 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.34] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 23:46:19 Arelius: (and i think you can define a hook to provide your own search function) 23:46:26 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:32 Mmm 23:46:41 Hmm 23:48:53 Arelius: asdf:*central-registry* is a list of directories that will be searched. 23:48:58 K 23:49:13 You can push another location onto that list, or symlink the rucksack asd file into one of those directories. 23:50:24 Arelius: What lisp implementation are you using? And how did you download/install rucksack? 23:50:48 ccl, and I've downloaded rucksack from cvs 23:50:52 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-208-82.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:20 Sorry, I'm not familiar with ccl, but I believe most lisp implementations use a startup file where you can add a form to push some dir onto asdf:*central-registry* at startup time. 23:52:52 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:52:57 Arelius: maybe its a bit early but you would be interested in repo-install to manage source repositories 23:53:20 Arelius: For example, I have (require 'asdf) and (pushnew #p"/home/austin/systems/" asdf:*central-registry*) at the top of my .sbclrc file. 23:54:04 And I symlink any independantly installed packages to that systems folder. 23:55:06 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:14 thsx 23:56:15 thx 23:58:28 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:06 -!- milanj [~milan@109.93.76.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]