00:04:23 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:05:44 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:13 fusss_ [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:11 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755053.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:40 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.199.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:59 *fusss_* is fishing for ideas on how to best structure a php app for lisp-callability 00:11:58 full-blown http is out of the question, and soap is bad on the lisp side. perhaps invoke the script with SYSTEM and read the results from stdout? 00:12:02 fusss_: xml-rpc and xml-rpc? 00:12:10 *cxml-rpc 00:12:57 that's a very good one; xml support is stellar in cxml 00:13:40 -!- Hun [~hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:35 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:15 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:29 fusss_: have you considered JSON? 00:16:39 X-02 [~schopenha@91.106.145.237] has joined #lisp 00:16:45 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.103] has joined #lisp 00:16:58 not sure if it's a good idea or not, I'm just wondering 00:17:28 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:59 felideon: all i need from php is the output of var_dump, which is very jsony 00:19:31 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 00:19:46 right now i just need to wrap the soap calls to our billing service in PHP (better Soap support) and run that php wrapper to service lisp callers on client desktops and web 00:20:22 is it not significantly simpler to have lisp speak SOAP? 00:20:34 xml or json-rpc are equally attractive, and since we're sending xml down the wire, the less conversion and marshalling i have to do the better. XSLT is trivial compared to inter-format conversions. 00:21:18 drewc: i have about until 3PM to get something to accounting. 00:21:55 fusss_: what time is it now? 00:22:25 11:20AM :-) 00:22:29 lots of time! 00:22:49 assuming it's a limited subset of SOAP you actually need to speak 00:23:09 Zuora API, WSDL v.12 00:23:37 blah blah blah... are you sending/recieving every possible combination of request/response possible? 00:24:07 no, not really 00:24:19 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 00:24:48 but figuring out a way to use PHP code will come handy everyday henceforth 00:24:52 didn't think so... so identify the small subset of the protocol you actually need and write a simple RPC layer that speaks that. 00:25:19 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-155.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:24 sure... you mentioned that php has good soap support? 00:25:48 so doing a simple soap client/server gets you talking to php for free 00:26:20 mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:26:22 the best, specially since it's already written and deployed inhouse. never underestimate the value of cut-and-paste. 00:26:29 oh, i see what you mean there 00:26:32 ;) 00:26:58 gotcha, and a Palin wink back atcha 00:28:52 cxml is quite complete, i've never found it to be lacking a feature i needed for xml parsing, that's for sure. 00:29:17 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:30:38 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:31:52 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:48 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:40:16 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:12 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 00:47:03 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:19 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 00:49:04 -!- Modius__ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 00:49:25 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:50:30 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:51:19 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:05 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:37 -!- mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: .] 00:54:21 mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:55:08 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:55:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 00:55:55 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 00:57:10 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 01:00:05 -!- NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-199-126.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:36 drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:03 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:09:04 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.237] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:11:09 hi there, I'm afraid but I need help 01:11:25 I'm making a web application using SBCL 01:12:03 X-02: Sounds like you're already helping yourself! 01:12:18 It seems to go well, when I only use English words 01:12:21 Sorry? 01:12:54 Using Lisp is the first step to success! 01:12:57 But when I put some Japanese words into (format), the output becomes a blank page 01:13:23 X-02: are you using hunchentoot? 01:13:40 I know, thanks 01:13:52 hunchentoot? I'll google it.. 01:14:24 X-02: what are you using for your web server? 01:14:47 Apache2. and my OS is debian lenny 01:14:53 X-02: you must be careful about what encoding you are using in the whole chain, from the source to the browser. 01:15:13 X-02: and how are you talking to apache? 01:15:18 X-02: at each step, you need to know what encoding you're using, and you need to tell it to the various programs. 01:15:35 editor, sbcl, hunchentoot, browser. 01:15:36 I suppose its utf-8 01:16:08 I'm actually testing the shebang script with sbcl, so the editor is vi 01:16:46 but I checked the encoding format downloading it and opening with vim 01:17:13 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:17:16 I won't enter in the details, but for each program check the doc to see how to set the encoding. In the case of hunchentoot, you must tell it to send the right HTTP headers specifying the encoding for the browser. 01:17:17 X-02: are the headers correct for utf-8? 01:17:28 In addition, I tried the same trial with clisp, so I don't think its because of apache 01:18:06 how can I check the headers? 01:18:20 With wget 01:18:30 It has an option to record the headers in a separate file. 01:18:49 Also firefox has a Page Info menu item to show the encoding. 01:18:49 okay, I'll try 01:19:11 I see, I tried it with firefox 01:19:25 it was utf-8, but it's just a blank page 01:19:50 hang on... 01:20:28 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:36 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-0-85.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:20:36 blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 01:20:45 I've just tried it with firefox, when it is without Japanese words 01:20:57 and it says ISO-8859-1 01:21:13 I think its the cause, thank you 01:23:26 then, how can I change the format? just by uploading a file in utf-8 format? or by changing the headers? 01:23:49 I'm not sure it can be a proper question.. I'll try the former 01:25:04 You need to set the header with hunchentoot. 01:26:12 cognizant-cog [~chatzilla@24.143.26.144] has joined #lisp 01:26:22 The file was in utf-8.. then, sbcl or apache2 is misunderstanding? 01:27:07 Do I need to change the web server? 01:27:44 Yes, you need to have it send the information to the browser. 01:28:51 is it sbcl or the server? When I use clisp or put a html file, Japanese words are fine 01:29:14 google for: hunchentoot encoding header utf-8 01:29:37 You could find nice tutorials such as http://www.adampetersen.se/articles/lispweb.htm 01:31:11 -!- cognizant-cog [~chatzilla@24.143.26.144] has left #lisp 01:31:48 You also need to tell sbcl or clisp that the files (source or data) are in utf-8. Check their user manuals. 01:32:12 Okay, I will think of using hunchentoot. It'll be faster than apache2, as it's written in cl 01:32:37 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:33:12 I see. Maybe I can overcome the problem 01:33:46 Thank you very much indeed. Honestly it's my first time to use IRC, but it was a very good experience 01:34:32 I just hope oneday I can contribute the community, thank you 01:34:53 Just stay here. You may lurk something interesting ;-) 01:35:21 holycow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:23 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:41 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 01:38:06 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:40:29 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:42:11 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:43:26 ram0x62 [~ram@home.ramandgita.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:36 poet [~poet@vpn3-14620.near.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 01:45:36 -!- poet [~poet@vpn3-14620.near.uiuc.edu] has quit [Changing host] 01:45:37 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 01:45:51 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikatc] 01:49:09 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [] 01:50:23 felideon [~felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:33 -!- mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: .] 01:57:14 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:05:16 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:06:24 konr [~user@187.88.166.235] has joined #lisp 02:11:13 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:12:30 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:12:54 hi, I'm trying to wait until a variable is nil ie. (loop :while *foo*) which, understandibly, eats up my CPU. what would be a more elegant strategy? 02:13:18 without using sleep for a timeout 02:13:27 use whatever threading primitives your implementation provides 02:13:36 or a threading abstraction library 02:13:41 okay, thanks 02:14:29 they rarely work exactly as you want them to there, but a semaphore might be close to what you want 02:14:35 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:43 or maybe not what you want, but what you should use :) 02:15:13 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:31 okay, cool 02:15:36 looks easy enough 02:17:19 kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has joined #lisp 02:18:10 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:03 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:21:15 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:26:52 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:15 mudge [~nick@adsl-75-42-63-224.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:20 hello 02:27:26 rahul: actually, a condition variable is exactly what egn wants. 02:28:59 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:08 all I want for breakfast is some lisp. 02:34:36 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-35-132.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 02:36:26 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 02:39:17 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 02:39:48 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:40:16 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:43:28 smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:59 breakfast? 02:49:51 what is artificial intelligence? 02:50:38 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:54:24 adu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence 02:55:14 mudge: i know, i read that page already 02:55:40 adu: did it answer your question sufficiently, or still leave you hanging? 02:55:55 neither 02:56:55 i don't hang 02:58:00 zoe_ [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:19 but i was thinking about all of the fruits of AI research, and most of the fruits/results are expert systems 02:58:48 -!- zoe_ is now known as zoe 02:59:53 the wiki page doesn't do a very good job of answering whether or not AI includes all expert systems, or only those expert systems that are non-trivial 03:00:36 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:00:51 does it matter really? 03:01:12 we still cannot define intellingence, what difference does the definition of artificial intelligence make really? 03:01:41 eve worse, we cannot even properly distinguish between life and non life 03:03:30 Yes, it does. If we can't agree on a definition, then no one will fund it, which will prolong our manual tasks even longer... So in the interest of funding, it might make more sense to promote a different name, like HCI and get funding for it, which would produce many of the same results AI funding would 03:04:01 adu: actually, AI covers nearly everything outside some basic tools and numeric-related stuff... 03:04:31 (or rather, computing kinda started with AI) 03:04:36 so MS Word's clippy is AI? Google is AI? Perl is AI? 03:04:51 adu: no, but they use things created by AI research 03:04:55 prove that it isn't? 03:05:03 holycow: lol 03:05:52 adu: search methods were created for AI. Clippy is rather obvious case of a very primitive helper, etc. 03:05:52 my feet are AI 03:05:57 well if ai is to be defined by the goal of getting research grants, that is entirely a different topic 03:06:03 adu: no, your feet aren't 03:06:58 holycow: i don't think AI = grants 03:07:17 holycow: that's like saying Java = $ 03:07:26 although, that's kinda true 03:07:27 you said it not me 03:08:01 but Java does equal money, it's a fact 03:08:18 the only thing that is af act here is that you aren't making any sense 03:08:19 :) 03:08:30 *holycow* suspect adu is a poorly coded bot 03:08:33 :D 03:08:54 if you go into a startup saying "I know 50" languages including Java, then you don't get the job, but if you say "I'm a Java developer" then they hire you instantly 03:09:28 and this last statement has what to do with the original statement? 03:09:55 well if ai ... 03:10:41 wow, i am a poorly coded bot 03:11:06 clearly you were coded by a vi use 03:11:08 :) 03:11:12 useR 03:11:26 *adu* <3 emacs 03:12:47 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:07 I think my flow is always disrupted by the fact that for every 2 ideas I have, I write one of them down, so my conversations may seem a bit broken 03:13:31 just bugging you :) 03:14:01 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 03:20:49 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:23:36 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:52 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-64-12.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:38:47 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: brb] 03:39:31 Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 03:48:14 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:29 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:43 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:50:36 X-02: hunchentoot is recommended for its rare ability to NOT suck 03:53:33 -!- jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:55:32 -!- dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:58:21 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:33 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8B6B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:02:04 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:02:23 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:57 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:04:29 -!- dabd [~dabd@a85-139-97-227.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:05:42 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:03 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:08:01 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.235] has joined #lisp 04:08:51 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:32 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:10:53 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-123-60.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:11:34 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:00 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@118.35-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 04:12:15 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:17:58 -!- pjb [~t@194.Red-79-149-143.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:18:05 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:21:16 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:21:18 adu: Well, honesty is considered a virtue. 04:22:52 Hmm, I am happy with my new lisp syntax. :) 04:23:54 Hello world. -> (Hello world) and hello-world -> (hello world) and ((hello world)) -> (hello world) make a big difference. 04:24:43 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:01 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:00 -!- marioxcc-AFK [~user@200.92.161.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:46 any larger examples? 04:44:20 nunb [~nundan@112.110.114.188] has joined #lisp 04:48:01 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:52:53 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:16 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-133-76-237.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 04:55:03 saikatc [~saikatc@128.12.248.104] has joined #lisp 04:55:08 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-frsydxrzwiglbcws] has joined #lisp 04:58:01 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:21 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:59:18 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 05:01:02 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-68-175-104-21.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:06:47 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:06:48 -!- pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@118.35-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:11:48 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.163.39.38] has joined #lisp 05:12:02 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:15:07 -!- nunb [~nundan@112.110.114.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:15:11 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:25 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440197.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 05:15:43 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:42 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:52 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:21 -!- malsyned_ [~malsyned@24.151.76.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:38:54 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:47:29 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:21 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@128.12.248.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:26 saikatc [~saikatc@rescomp-09-132118.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 05:51:07 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:01 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-196.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:52:22 -!- mudge [~nick@adsl-75-42-63-224.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:33 saikatc_ [~saikatc@128.12.248.104] has joined #lisp 05:55:43 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 05:56:25 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:18 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@rescomp-09-132118.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:59:19 -!- saikatc_ is now known as saikatc 06:00:43 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-229-219.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:02:47 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:04:55 enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:08:08 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-2-106.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:12:22 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 06:12:52 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:13:07 omg cl-mongo had a bunch of dependencies 06:13:28 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 06:14:40 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:15:03 -!- b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 06:15:37 b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:15:41 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:19:14 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:24:59 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 06:25:18 xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:29:04 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.163.39.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:29:21 -!- easyE [9lIBLoXsaF@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:34:12 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34:51 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:45:05 -!- b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:46:05 l0stman [~l0stman@freedsl-2.blueline.mg] has joined #lisp 06:48:39 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:54:08 Zhivago: WOW, i can has identifiers with spaces PLZ? 06:58:43 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:59:38 Good morning! 07:01:04 gooraw [~gooraw___@109.126.56.94] has joined #lisp 07:01:28 bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-133-76-237.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:45 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 07:01:58 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: cya later] 07:02:03 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:57 Hun [~hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:07:34 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:42 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:07:58 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:11 I have 1e6 digits of pi as a hex string, and I search for a random hex string of length N: (search "af93fe" *pi-digits*). Why would a length of 6 match almost always, but bumping it up to 8 would rarely if ever match? Can that be determined through some sort of probability rule? 07:08:25 das64 [~das@adsl-67-124-39-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:55 adu: spaces? only spaces? WEAK ;-) 07:09:13 bytecolor: um, yeah 07:09:19 (1/16)^n 07:09:19 p_l: i know about #| that's different 07:09:25 *p_l* used mixture of hiragana and kanji for identifiers 07:09:55  07:12:03 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:18 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-027-209.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:14:09 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 07:15:56 -!- enthymene [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: g'night freenode] 07:16:31 That's one tiny number... 07:17:13 actually only 830482 hex digits for 1e6 decimal digits 07:20:44 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1cb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:21:34 I definitely need a better box while playing with these numbers. I've already killed emacs, sbcl and firefox about 4 times. ;) 07:24:16 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 07:25:21 -!- xenosoz2 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has left #lisp 07:25:41 -!- fusss_ [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:27:48 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 07:28:31 rent some time on amazons cloud facility :) 07:28:35 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:48 b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:30:06 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:30:19 Speedy2 [~mike@bzq-79-180-18-85.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:16 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 07:31:56 www.search2.net 07:32:33 hello 07:32:51 Speedy2: that yours? 07:32:59 -!- Speedy2 [~mike@bzq-79-180-18-85.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:33:59 spammer, you probably shouldn't click that 07:34:16 too late :) lol, sucks too 07:37:02 Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-199-126.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:03 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 07:47:06 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:47:19 good morning 07:52:24 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:52:30 hi mvilleneuve 07:53:01 -!- das64 [~das@adsl-67-124-39-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:53:06 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 07:54:22 Hmm. 07:54:30 How would I pass '(2 3 4 5 6) to (* ) ? 07:54:35 And have them all multiplied? 07:54:44 (apply #'* my-list) 07:54:49 Ahh apply. 07:55:07 For some reason I thought I was supposed to use map. 07:55:10 Thanks. 07:55:17 you could use reduce 07:55:31 which maps an accumulator across a list 07:55:54 if you wanted to be more low-level, or do other things than just plain * 07:58:01 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.65.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:58:26 xinming [~hyy@122.238.65.37] has joined #lisp 07:59:50 reduce is more correct due to call-arguments-limit 08:00:06 s/correct/reliable, maybe. 08:00:32 for the explicit example '(2 3 4 5 6), apply is correct ;) 08:00:39 ymmv for other lengths 08:01:09 Thanks 08:01:16 jdz [~user@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:02:20 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:06:15 mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:06:15 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:07:10 mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:07:42 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:12:18 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:42 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:40 adlai_:  08:15:46 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:15:47 p_l: wrong channel 08:16:33 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:16:38 psykotic [~psykotic@112.142.83.182] has joined #lisp 08:17:02 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-217-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:23:24 fe[nl]ix: it was supposed to go to adu, I blame tab completion 08:24:05 (and /ignore on JOIN/QUIT messages except for a list of people I want to know) 08:24:23 p_l: you also forgot an  08:25:20 what you guys talk is is greek to me, except it does not look anything like greek 08:28:24 fe[nl]ix: ah right, I don't write in kana often enough to remember properly. too much bloody romaji transliterations ^^; 08:28:51 hm.. (code-char 666) => #\ 08:29:58 frodef: letter of the devil ? 08:30:04 that's one hell of a character! 08:30:21 it's beastly 08:30:33 (code-char 666) => #\Latin_Small_Letter_Closed_Open_E 08:31:00 closed open something, right 08:31:37 *p_l* prefers #o666 => TRON 08:32:30 Maybe Dan Brown could write a unicode novel. 08:32:49 The Consortium. 08:32:58 hahaha 08:33:13 frodef: I am afraid he already kinda did something like that, in "Digital Fortress". Haven't read it, though - two of his novels were more than enough for me. 08:33:20 that book would have lots of code pages 08:33:54 Claviceps [gambino@c-24-17-64-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:10 p_l: the title doesn't really bode well.. 08:34:53 frodef: it's enough that he definitely didn't do his research (as always) 08:35:03 Digital Fortress is full of _completely_ made-up "facts", as opposed to his other books, which at least mix a drop of truth with the crazy plots 08:35:36 for example, one critical element of Digital Fortress's plot is a cryptographic principle that you can break any code if you know the key, regardless of the encryption algorithm 08:36:02 *Adlai* adds "scare quotes" around "cryptographic principle" 08:36:10 i read it in an airplane once 08:36:31 wasn't there some comment about the 'unbreakable xor cipher' 08:36:42 (of course, with a sufficiently long key...) 08:36:42 I think that was referring to one-time pad 08:36:46 yeah 08:37:13 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:37:43 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.163.39.38] has joined #lisp 08:38:03 regarding codes, davinci's code premise is even more absurd, that someone studying religious symbology would be uniquely skilled at code breaking 08:38:15 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-229-219.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 08:38:23 because it's all symbols, don't ya know? 08:38:46 Well, making of crazy theories and cryptography are pretty similar. 08:39:18 NEED PEOPLE FOR A (WHITEHAT) SEO DEVELOPMENT TEAM!! WWW.BINGSEOFORUM.COM + WWW.BARELYLEGAL.COM 08:39:29 #xbox720 on EFNET 08:39:36 #xbox720 on EFNET 08:39:38 -!- Claviceps [gambino@c-24-17-64-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 08:40:04 *Adlai* (wonders (if lisp is on topic)) 08:41:18 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-plehztvngoptrrmb] has joined #lisp 08:42:05 Adlai: Nice, loop-like if there :D 08:42:51 it's just aspiring to be like IF* 08:44:26 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-221-58.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:44:44 uh, why would you want that (: 08:47:24 Claviceps [gambino@c-24-17-64-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:58 WWW.WINDOWS.COM 08:48:07 dude I got an HP 08:48:16 dude I got a HewellPackard 08:48:31 www.bing.com 08:48:34 www.bing.com 08:48:35 -!- Claviceps [gambino@c-24-17-64-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:48:42 Claviceps [gambino@c-24-17-64-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:49 -!- Claviceps [gambino@c-24-17-64-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:48:55 Claviceps [gambino@c-24-17-64-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:58 www.bing.com 08:48:58 -!- Claviceps [gambino@c-24-17-64-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 08:49:49 -!- kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:11 OK, so how does one debug an error like "Internal server error" "an error has occurred" in Hunchentoot? 08:51:10 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:51:11 my _guess_ is that there should be a catch-all handler somewhere high up in the request processing loop 08:51:28 so i'd check if there is a special variable to control its behaviour 08:51:56 there's *catch-errors-p*, not sure if you know about it 08:52:22 xan_: I know next to nothing. Thanks! 08:52:58 read "Conditions and error handling" in http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ 08:54:32 nostoi [~nostoi@171.Red-79-150-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:02 xan_: Got it! Thanks! 08:56:08 hello beach 08:56:17 hey mvilleneuve 08:56:34 beach: It's a good idea to set *message-log-pathname* 08:56:49 beach: how's the server development going? 08:59:18 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:00:09 easyE [1uYnzIyhvF@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 09:01:28 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-180-41.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:03:23 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756fc5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:22 knobo: thanks. 09:05:02 mvilleneuve: I am having fundamental problems with using hunchentoot, and I can't find what I want in the documentation. But I am making progress. 09:05:42 OK, so if I am inside a with-html-output-to-string, say inside a :body, and I want to use loop to create output. How do I do that? 09:07:05 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.163.39.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:08:37 I suspect it has something to do with the (htm ...) "request", but I can't find it in the documentation. 09:09:21 beach: (with-html-output-to-string (s) (:body (loop for i below 3 do (htm (:tr (princ i s)))))) 09:10:03 fe[nl]ix: Thanks. Found htm in the documentation as well. Reading... 09:10:06 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:10:58 ShadowChild [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 09:14:02 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:13 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:15:19 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-243-239.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:08 pjb [~t@67.Red-88-30-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:40 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:18:03 Fufie [~poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:11 Perhaps someone can explain to me the difference betwee (:a :href (format s "hello") ...) and (:a :href "hello" ...) please. 09:22:36 -!- frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:20 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@171.Red-79-150-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:25:30 somecodehere [~ingvar@75.186.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 09:29:04 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:29:18 beach: the former looks messed up 09:29:22 that looks like a very fishy example. because the stream for format is not nil 09:29:44 adeht: Yeah, got that much. 09:30:21 jdz: So if the stream has to be nil, what is the purpose of the argument to w-h-o-t-s? 09:31:16 so you can use it to write stuff which is not under the control of w-h-o-t-s? 09:31:25 i think you should use macroexpand a bit :) 09:31:29 beach: so you can pass it to functions to do parts of the html 09:31:32 jdz: Which is why I did, and it got messed up. 09:31:51 but that part *is* under the control of the macro 09:32:08 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 09:32:32 beach: yaclml would conform to your expectation here, though 09:32:39 jdz: Where does it say what part is under the control of the macro and which parts aren't? 09:33:01 i think this hunchentoot uses cl-who, right? 09:33:22 jdz: This is just cl-who. Has nothing to do (as I understand) with hunchentoot. 09:33:23 s/this// 09:33:28 ok, right. 09:33:29 hmm, maybe not for the attribute though :/ 09:33:52 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0832.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:33:57 under the "syntax and semantics 09:34:01 " 09:34:02 <_deepfire> I've had some pretty icky interactions with the :A thing in CL-WHO, to the point of heavily suspecting a bug. 09:34:15 beach: cl-who has weird semantics 09:34:36 fe[nl]ix: Thanks. I picked it because everyone says Edi writes excellent software. 09:34:39 <_deepfire> Basically dropping my uses of :A and replacing them with a manually-generated string, 09:35:23 Anyway, thanks everyone. I'll play around some more. 09:35:24 <_deepfire> After being unable to brute-force my way to a correct solution, as documentation provided no insights into the problem. 09:35:33 beach: (:a "hello") yields "hello", but (:a :href "hello") yields "" 09:36:02 beach: I dislike this kind of DWIM behaviour 09:36:17 wikipedia says this "In Common Lisp implementations which support multithreading, dynamic scopes are specific to each thread of execution." 09:36:22 there is nothing DWIM like here 09:36:25 I always used ((:a :href "foo") "bar") syntax 09:36:27 is that actually in the spec, or just what CLs tend to do? 09:36:51 the other way is what the HTML generation package for Allegro CL does 09:36:54 Phoodus: the spec doesn't talk about multithreading 09:37:32 jdz: yes there is: if a keyword follows the tag name, it's supposed to be an attribute 09:37:54 jdz: for cl-who, ((:a :href "hello") "foo") and (:a :href "hello" "foo") are equivalent 09:37:58 no, not supposed to be, but _is_ attribute name 09:38:01 adeht: I thought so. How reliable do you think that statement is? 09:38:14 fe[nl]ix: and? 09:38:25 Phoodus: quite reliable.. I don't know of any implementation that supports threads and doesn't do that 09:38:44 ok, that was my suspicion. Just getting some confirmation from others 09:38:51 fiveop [~fiveop@g229115072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:01 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:12 dynamic binding certainly does seem like it should only affect things within its call scope, thus other threads are excluded 09:42:30 poet [~poet@ppp-70-225-162-227.dsl.chmpil.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:30 -!- poet [~poet@ppp-70-225-162-227.dsl.chmpil.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:42:30 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 09:47:09 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: night] 09:53:47 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-35-132.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:54:00 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:58:53 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:58:54 -!- pjb [~t@67.Red-88-30-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:00:02 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1] 10:01:18 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-77-172.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 10:02:23 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 10:03:53 hello. 10:08:39 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:19:05 Sands [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has joined #lisp 10:19:37 -!- Morbeo [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:22:41 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:26:19 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:26:48 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-89-223-246-191.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 10:28:41 silenius [~jl@2a01:238:e100:320:21f:c6ff:fed7:73bb] has joined #lisp 10:32:25 pjb [~t@80.29.243.72] has joined #lisp 10:32:38 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1D730.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:44 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-53-8.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 10:44:32 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-0-85.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:45:08 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:51:26 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-123-27.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:51:42 wvdschel [~wim@vpnj173.ugent.be] has joined #lisp 10:54:53 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:56:08 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 10:57:28 Hello 10:58:30 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has joined #lisp 11:00:43 splittist [~3ecbba7a@gateway/web/freenode/x-fpcngycivspfzckt] has joined #lisp 11:00:45 morning 11:01:13 slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1DCAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:26 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 11:02:44 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0832.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 11:03:18 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1D730.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:03:31 hello splittist 11:03:33 hello kami 11:04:18 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:04:52 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has joined #lisp 11:05:03 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has joined #lisp 11:05:23 beach: I have an off-topic question. How is the weather at Cote d'Azure beginning of October? 11:05:38 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:08:06 clhs *read-suppress* 11:08:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_rd_sup.htm 11:10:07 Hello 11:10:25 What is your opinion? Should (read-from-string "#+nil ,foo") signal an error, or not? 11:11:12 It's probably "backquote notations continue to be interpreted properly" vs. "All extended tokens are completely uninterpreted" 11:11:51 The terminology of extended token got somewhat scraped from cltl2 -> clhs, though 11:12:00 tcr: how does that compare with "#+nil (foo bar" 11:12:52 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1DCAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 11:13:53 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:14:35 I'm not sure what you mean. That one is obviously botched 11:15:01 ,foo however may constitute an "extended token" 11:15:19 I'm looking for its definition, I seem to recall that it's somewhere hidden deep down in the 2nd chapter 11:15:21 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:15:38 I like ,foo syntax, but I'm fairly sure it is illegal. 11:16:40 slash_ [~Unknown@p5DD1DCAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:41 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:18:34 #\, is just a terminating macro character, the question is whether that should heed *read-supress* or not 11:18:52 Ah, sorry -- I completely misread that. 11:19:46 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 11:20:08 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 11:21:01 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Client Quit] 11:21:45 i read clhs & googled about , but i am still unsure about :import-from from more than one package. can someone give me a hint/url/example/snippet to guide me the right way? 11:22:17 (defpackage #:foo (:import-from #:bar #:baz) (:import-from #:fribble #:dibble)) 11:23:13 trebor_dki: all defpackage options except :documentation may be used any number of times 11:23:51 thanks Xach (that is the way i did it, too. but i obviously overlooked that advice in clhs) 11:24:16 slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1DCAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:26 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1DCAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 11:25:52 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:26:08 benny` [~benny@i577A860C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:13 Blkt [~user@160.80.132.50] has joined #lisp 11:26:23 Xach: and :size 11:26:41 stassats: true, i overlooked that. 11:26:48 kami: Usually pretty good I would think. 11:27:16 tcr: any progress? Just from #\, being a terminating macro char, and 2.4.7, I can't see how an error can be avoided. But I won't be surprized if you discover otherwise (: 11:28:34 -!- benny` is now known as benny 11:29:46 splittist: 2.4.7 does not mention *read-suppress* explicitly, so how it should behave in case *read-suppress* is true must be deduced from the clhs entry of *read-suppress* which is a tad bit ambiguous on the issue 11:30:08 kami: http://uk.holidaysguide.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-1229900-nice_weather-i 11:30:35 Most implementations seem to signal an error on the above example. SBCL does not. Yet I don't care enough to spend further time on it. 11:31:51 tcr: Fair enough. But you could reverse the application of your interpretive rules: the discussion of *read-suppress* is the general, and 2.4.7 is the specific, so 2.4.7 governs in the case of #\, 11:32:38 splittist: I don't think *read-suppress* is explicitly mentioned in most entries 11:33:34 This would take careful study. I grew a bit tiresome of language lawyerism lately :-) 11:34:18 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 11:36:26 Xach: sorry, just a question in order to understand clhs better in future. is this the advice i overlooked: "An error of type `program-error' should be signaled if :size or :documentation appears more than once."? 11:37:14 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 11:37:37 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@p5DD1DCAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:38:20 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:39:10 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Changing host] 11:39:10 joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 11:39:26 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1DCAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:03 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 11:42:49 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:43:24 HET2 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:43:39 -!- ShadowChild is now known as lukjad86 11:45:41 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 11:47:20 hi there, I'm in the same trouble as yesterday. A shebang script with sbcl just produces a blank page. 11:47:42 ruepel0r [~rue@77-21-138-135-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:47:46 Exactly speaking, (format) including Japanese words don't work 11:48:06 SBCL supports #!? 11:49:03 trebor_dki: i think you overlooked the syntax section where it has *s 11:49:04 But not like yesterday, vim says the file is in utf-8, firefox says its in utf-8, and the default encoding of sbcl and the server is utf-8 11:49:16 Ralith: yes. 11:49:30 X-02: what does the first line of the script look like? 11:49:44 Xach: neat! I thought that was unique to clisp. 11:50:27 #!/usr/local/bin/sbcl --script 11:50:37 X-02: that looks good 11:50:43 it works when I only use Alphabets 11:51:27 Is the locale set up properly? 11:51:38 locale set up? 11:51:49 $LANG, etc. 11:51:57 about sbcl? 11:52:26 Um, before you run sbcl. 11:52:27 googling.. 11:52:38 X-02: environment variables. 11:53:08 -!- wvdschel [~wim@vpnj173.ugent.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 11:54:19 Debian says its ja_JP,UTF-8 11:54:46 There are a lot of language settings! 11:54:54 there are a lot of languages! 11:54:59 also encodings. 11:55:02 is there a nifty way to combine duplicates in a list? 11:55:05 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@128.12.248.104] has quit [Quit: saikatc] 11:55:19 as in (list 1 1 2 2 3) -> (list 2 2 1) or something 11:55:38 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.5] has joined #lisp 11:55:45 HET2: remove-duplicates is one possible thing 11:55:54 Xach: thank you very much. in fact you helped me very much with this advice, because indeed i did not know what the * are for and so ignored them. so i think it is a good idea (for me) to read chapter 1.2 ff ;) 11:56:06 hm, aren't CLISP and SBCL noncompliant by defining #! ? 11:56:26 Xach, remove duplicates unfortunately only removes the duplicates, it does not let me combine them intelligently 11:56:34 HET2, REMOVE-DUPLICATES, DELETE-DUPLICATES, or using PUSHNEW (or ADJOIN) when you collect the elements 11:56:34 -!- drewc [~drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:58 Adlai: iirc, they're not defined after the first line of a #! script. 11:56:59 oh wait. how do you want to combine them exactly? 11:57:03 HET2: what does "combine them intelligently" mean? 11:57:05 it seems that HET2 is asking a different thing 11:57:09 -!- l0stman [~l0stman@freedsl-2.blueline.mg] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:57:18 but I think all encoding settings of sbcl, the web server, the OS and the file are utf-8. I don't know why it happens 11:57:19 Ralith, for example add the duplicates toghether 11:57:38 HET2, it's unclear what your example does... how will it behave when you have non-numbers? 11:57:52 HET2: you apply a technique called "programing" 11:57:57 :P 11:58:02 right 11:58:02 ouch 11:58:03 whatever 11:58:29 I just wonder why "sbcl --script index.cgi" works correctly even when it includes Japanese words 11:58:35 X-02: where does the web server get involved? 11:58:48 where? 11:59:04 yes. 11:59:56 When I just run "sbcl --script index.cgi" on the shell, it works. so I guess it's because of apache2?? 12:00:45 I'm actually thinking of changing the web server, but I can't do it without solving the problem 12:01:03 X-02: apache has a different $LANG? 12:01:47 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:59 try printing (sb-ext:posix-getenv "LANG") from that index.cgi and from apache 12:02:12 and, why are you using cgi at all? 12:02:12 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-89-223-246-191.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:23 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.5] has joined #lisp 12:02:55 stassats: apache's AddDefaultCharset option is UTF-8, but I'll try it 12:03:42 you mean not using CL-based webserver? 12:03:57 i mean _using_ a CL-based webserver 12:04:07 like hunchentoot 12:05:37 Now it occurs to me that it's a very good idea. but I think of the situation where other people use my program. I can't impose any webserver 12:06:05 you can, your program _is_ a webserver 12:06:33 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066167.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 12:08:10 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@75.186.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:45 pjb pasted ""combine-duplicates"" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95409 12:09:45 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440197.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:10:15 -!- Algid [~dash@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:11:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-180-41.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12:33 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:12:38 pjb, why don't you use := if you use keywords for all the other loop clauses? 12:12:55 Adlai: right :-) 12:13:01 stassats: including the web server is an interesting idea. thank you 12:13:16 Adlai: however, for = it matters less since it's actuall CL:= 12:13:17 and (sb-ext:posix-getenv "LANG") doesn't work on cgi 12:13:28 X-02: what does it say? 12:13:38 actually nothing 12:13:46 Adlai: the purpose of using keywords here is to avoid interning a symbol that could be later imported from another package. 12:14:06 but when it runs on the shell, it saysja_JP,UTF-8 12:14:19 X-02: did you send it to the browser? 12:14:38 (format t "~2%
~S
~%" (sb-ext:posix-getenv "LANG")) 12:14:38 X-02: shouldn't it be ja_JP.UTF-8 (note the dot)? 12:14:55 pjb: so, import beforehand 12:14:55 pjb: yes. and in that case it doesn't work 12:14:58 Yes, it should be a dot. 12:14:58 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:15:01 sorry, hang on 12:15:13 stassats: that's why using keywords buys me: I can import after :-) 12:15:23 and did you refresh? 12:15:37 s/why/what/ 12:15:40 yes, it was a dot, sorry 12:18:19 pjb: I copy&pasted your (format t "~2%
~S
~%" (sb-ext:posix-getenv "LANG")) 12:18:26 And it says NIL 12:18:47 exactly speaking,
NIL
12:18:50 Then the environment variable is not defined. 12:19:37 pjb: On the webserver you mean? 12:19:54 Yes. 12:20:04 Note that encodings may also be specified by LC_ALL, and the various other LC_* variables. Also you can set it directly in sbcl with specific sbcl variables. 12:22:58 Thank you very much. I'll try to do it myself with google. I might come back, though. 12:23:29 but maybe using the CL-based webserver is a good idea... anyway appreciate it indeed 12:23:38 X-02: it's not documented, see: SB-IMPL::*DEFAULT-EXTERNAL-FORMAT* 12:24:09 X-02: it's in any case a simplier approach. 12:24:20 well... you'll have to reopen standard streams 12:24:35 Yes, in case of a CGI. 12:25:36 a better idea would be a wrapper script which would set LANG 12:26:17 drewc [~drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 12:27:23 *DEFAULT-EXTERNAL-FORMAT* was ANSI_X3.4-1968 on a cgi 12:27:43 on the shell, it was :UTF-8 12:30:21 That's because Apache changed the environment variables, launching the CGI in a different environment. 12:31:04 why you do that, apache... 12:31:37 Well apache itself starts from a different environment. It probably just inherit it. 12:32:37 I see, but why does it work correctly with clisp? 12:33:33 clisp differently determines its encoding? 12:33:46 X-02: why are you doing cgi at all? 12:34:11 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:58 drewc: everyone says that, lol. 12:35:26 Oh, I got it. its because the first line of the scropt 12:36:18 clisp has an option to change the encoding format 12:36:37 I used to use CGI 15 years ago... i find it hard to believe people still do... are you using windows 3.11? 12:37:07 :D 12:37:10 drewc: debian lenny, haha 12:37:19 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 12:37:23 i still use Common Lisp, which is older than me 12:37:32 Guest39936 [~mirwais_g@194.98.42.130] has joined #lisp 12:37:43 hi 12:37:53 Okay, I'll use HUNCHENTOOT. It'll make everrthing fine 12:38:10 stassats: which common lisp? i bet it's got a recent release :) 12:38:11 Well, better than using CGI, anyway :) 12:38:31 hi 12:38:39 -!- Guest39936 [~mirwais_g@194.98.42.130] has left #lisp 12:38:45 (fastcgi is still not a totally ridiculous option) 12:38:58 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:39:02 Guest39936 [~mirwais_g@194.98.42.130] has joined #lisp 12:39:10 rsynnott: slightly less ridiculous than plain CGI, but only just so :) 12:39:11 drewc: how do i tell which is which? 12:39:22 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 12:39:44 anyway thank you all. I really appreciate your kindness 12:39:50 rsynnott: it would be interesting in case of adding and removing scripts often. But with some preparation it's also very easy to modify the hunchentoot server application on the run, so... 12:39:56 hi 12:40:04 stassats: working multi-core concurrency on modern operating systems would be a good indicator ;) 12:41:12 -!- Guest39936 [~mirwais_g@194.98.42.130] has left #lisp 12:42:11 drewc: i don't use this option explicitly very often, only in slime 12:42:38 stassats: why so many spaces in your message? 12:43:02 72 after the last word, to be exact :) 12:43:02 stassats: ok, 'supports slime well' is a good indicator too 12:43:58 jdz: i don't see any, besides those between words 12:44:25 *drewc* does not see extra spaces 12:44:27 ok, maybe it's just me. sorry about the noise. 12:44:53 jdz: it's just you. 12:45:43 yes, looks like it's ERC 12:46:08 if i put the cursor at the end of that message, my Emacs goes eating 100% of CPU 12:46:13 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229115072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 12:46:26 jdz: the line is "too long" and erc had to put a timestamp somewhere 12:46:55 well, it is not "too long", it is exactly 78 characters, though 12:47:26 which is the value of erc-fill-column 12:48:11 erc puts the timestamp on column 72 here, with erc-fill-column 78 12:48:13 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:48:21 i have timestamps hidden 12:48:24 sounds like ERC is kind of broke. 12:48:39 adeht: and you managed to write another buggy line with 78 characters :) 12:49:01 Ralith: doesn't look broken to me.. quirky maybe (I don't get the 100% cpu stuff) 12:49:36 rcirc is supposed to be less quirky, or so i've heard 12:49:44 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:44 jdz: maybe it considers timestamps even though they are hidden 12:50:05 let us all write seventy eight characters message just to annoy jdz 12:50:17 damn you 12:50:21 you succeeded 12:50:32 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:37 but it is annoying only if i manually put a cursor at the end of such a line 12:51:24 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:51:31 -!- gooraw [~gooraw___@109.126.56.94] has quit [Quit: gooraw] 12:51:43 adeht: that sounds like breakage to me. 12:52:18 it's offtopic anyway, and rcirc seems better suited for me 12:52:27 ERC is the worst IRC client, except for all the other ones 12:52:39 guess so, but as an erc user I never thought of it as a problem 12:52:45 *Ralith* likes irssi 12:52:55 but I still want to write a proper CL client someday. 12:53:06 there's beirc 12:53:09 hack on beirc! 12:53:09 well, have a look at beirc 12:53:15 heh 12:53:29 it's an attempt at an insanely sane irc client (: 12:53:46 ...using mcclim (which might be the insane part) (: 12:53:48 I found CLIM's UI model very odd when trying out beirc, though 12:54:01 or maybe it's just the way it's used in beirc 12:54:10 jdz` [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 12:54:13 *Adlai* has no CLIM or McCLIM experience 12:54:14 I will certainly examine it. 12:54:19 yeah, the foo-event and bar-event stuff is weird 12:54:32 but unfortunately, background things and the clim event loop are like that 12:55:25 -!- jdz [~user@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Dumping ERC.] 12:55:35 -!- jdz` is now known as jdz 12:55:36 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6676e1-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 12:58:13 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-75-98.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:00:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:00:33 hi antifuchs 13:00:40 hi HET2 (: 13:01:09 HET2: <13:08:45> pjb pasted ""combine-duplicates"" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95409 13:01:22 pjb, i've already written that a while ago :) 13:01:29 Good. 13:01:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:01:54 pjb, my version uses a recursive helper function 13:02:09 might not be as efficient but it's just 60k elements anyway 13:02:22 Have you that much stack space? 13:02:30 tail recursion 13:02:33 Good :-) 13:02:35 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:12 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-94-44-21-249.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:06:03 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-202-128.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:06:09 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.163.39.141] has joined #lisp 13:09:20 Jabberwockey [~jens@port-11420.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 13:09:38 -!- konr [~user@187.88.166.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:12:31 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 13:14:24 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:14:32 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-2-106.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:22:49 HET2, tail recursion can be very efficient 13:22:50 -!- pjb [~t@80.29.243.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:23:59 HET2: tail recursion is typically just as efficient as iteration, if not moreso. 13:24:19 err 13:24:23 tail recursion is iteration 13:24:42 no, it's recursion. 13:25:47 HET2: They look the same on a CFG, don't they? 13:26:05 iiuc, it can be more efficient in cases where an iterative algorithms with lots of side-effects confuse a compiler 13:26:22 Ralith, that's like saying that loop is not iteration but it is a loop 13:26:37 kinda 13:26:48 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756fc5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:26:49 a strange loop! 13:26:54 HET2: you are very confused. 13:27:18 well, LOOP doesn't have to express iteration... 13:27:50 adlai: thanks, that's the point i was trying to convey to Ralith 13:28:00 >.< 13:28:08 Adlai: you're only further confusing him :P 13:28:30 HET2, I was semi-joking, but now _I'm_ confused as to what your point is 13:28:49 wrt tail recursion being iteration -- I'd say it's _both_ iteration and recursion 13:28:58 my point is that saying that tail recursion is not iteration but recursion is a statement without content 13:29:02 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756fc5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:04 strictly, it is recursion 13:29:09 but it can be used to express iteration. 13:29:11 and usually is. 13:29:12 tail recursion is just GOTO 13:29:15 my brain supports multiple inheritance of algorithms 13:29:41 adlai: again, i completely agree 13:30:11 I'm not really sure why "X = X and X  Y" is a confusing statement. 13:30:42 you might be best off reviewing the relevant concepts in SICP or similar. 13:30:43 what you said is that X is not equal to Y where it is apparent that Y is a subset of X 13:30:57 it's just not a very useful thing to say 13:31:42 davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:43 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f665fc2-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 13:31:48 recursion and iteration are not inherently related. 13:32:04 again - a useless thing to say 13:32:08 ... 13:32:09 it's kinda like - DUH 13:32:18 yes. 13:32:24 that is why it mystifies me as to why you don't understand it. 13:32:42 i refuse to reply to your references to my person 13:32:50 okay. 13:32:59 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-frsydxrzwiglbcws] has left #lisp 13:33:02 wow, obviously CL rules :-) 13:33:04 Ralith, why can't recursion and iteration overlap? 13:33:05 http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/rankings.php 13:33:31 Adlai: wat? 13:33:33 mega1: nice 13:33:41 Adlai: you can use recursion to iterate, and you can use recursion for other things, too. 13:34:04 today it may rain or it may not! 13:34:09 the statement "tail recursion is iteration" is false. 13:34:12 Ralith, some recursive algorithms are iterative too, tail recursion being an example of that (every tail recursive algorithm is iterative) 13:34:15 note that the rankings fluctuate so much that the ranking in the top 20 is very unreliable 13:34:34 mega1, you've been in there for a while now, good job! 13:34:51 Adlai: not implicitly. 13:34:58 you can recurse without iterating all you like. 13:35:21 tail recursion is iteration no more than goto is error handling. 13:35:27 wtf 13:35:27 thanks, let's show them that show those C++ weenies 13:35:29 (minus the negative connotations, perhaps) 13:35:43 Ralith: tail recursion is exactly goto 13:35:47 mega1: congrats! 13:35:47 *HET2* predicts godwin's law in 3 moves 13:35:50 stassats: yes. 13:35:51 every tail recursive algorithm is also an iterative algorithm 13:36:19 Adlai: perhaps you mean to say that any given tail recursive algorithm can be expressed iteratively? 13:36:45 it seems that we disagree as to the meaning of "is"....... 13:36:45 Adlai: Is this a matter of isomorphism? 13:37:00 adlai: that's a pretty bad thing to disagree on 13:37:45 I'm taking it as more of an "is-a" relationship, ie, tail recursion is a form of iteration. I'm not saying that tail recursion and iteration are the same thing. 13:38:07 Adlai: tail recursion is *not* necessarily iteration. 13:38:14 as stassats keeps saying, it's simply a GOTO. 13:38:20 and goto is iteration! 13:38:27 oh snap 13:38:36 *Ralith* runaway 13:38:37 Ralith, i'd like to see you use tail recursion for error handling 13:38:39 carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.197] has joined #lisp 13:38:52 HET2: I wouldn't! 13:38:52 dudes, you're all saying the same thing (which is "nothing at all" actually) 13:38:53 tail _calls_ are a goto, tail recursion is a recursive tail call 13:38:55 it would be a travesty. 13:38:59 lemoinem, iknorite!? :D 13:39:01 lemoinem, yup :) 13:39:33 lemoinem: Isn't that normal for an intellectual dick comparison? 13:39:37 Ralith, let's cease and desist and go improve our tron bots to be like mega1 and cmatei 13:39:51 Adlai: newbie's confusion's on you, then. 13:39:59 is cmatei positron? 13:40:02 mega1, yp 13:40:03 *yep 13:40:13 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:19 I'm "Adlai." because there's a lower limit on username length :( 13:40:24 :( 13:40:31 tomorrow I may try to minimax 13:40:36 Ralith, trying to parse "newbie's confusion's" makes for interesting tail recursions in my head or should i say GOTOs? 13:40:38 mega1: decided on vienna? 13:40:44 but I think I might have to leave that until the day after 13:40:56 good thing the deadline got pushed back or I'd be cutting it close 13:41:14 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:41:19 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 13:41:31 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:59 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:16 mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:43:24 Ralith, I'm amazed that my bot is doing this well without any lookahead :D 13:43:35 am I still ahead? 13:43:43 I guess the latest rise is just luck, though. No, you're at #283... 13:43:48 or has my abandonment of it over the last few days been doing me ill 13:43:49 aw :( 13:43:53 Where are you playing? 13:43:56 what'd you change to compensate? 13:44:10 Jabberwockey: AI challenge 13:44:13 abandonment doesn't necessarily hurt you. My bot rose up into the top 100 just now, after a few days of neglect 13:44:18 tcr: not yet decided. If time permits I'll show up for the hacking day. 13:44:27 Adlai: so I guess just random luck on both of us? 13:44:34 sounds like a shitty ranking algo. 13:44:42 Jabberwockey, http://contest.csclub.uwaterloo.ca 13:44:51 Cheers! 13:45:33 Ralith, I think my ranking right now is random luck, my bot seemed pretty settled around the 110-120s earlier 13:45:39 mega1: ok! 13:46:06 -!- Fufie [~poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:46:26 Adlai: but what'd you do that kept up while I fell behind? 13:46:32 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100214235838]] 13:47:27 I slightly improved my space filling, and added a drop of secret sauce for pseudo draw avoidance 13:48:52 slightly? 13:48:53 :[ 13:49:59 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:23 no lookahead, just different heuristics that lead to much better spacefilling on most maps 13:50:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 13:52:53 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:54:38 reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:54:53 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:21 -!- davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:57 Ralith, their ranking algorithm is based on your win/loss/draw percentage, but not on your opponents 13:56:20 not on your opponents? 13:56:21 huh. 13:56:46 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:56:55 remember, though, this isn't the real tournament yet. I think they'll do some form of elimination tournament for determining the final one. 13:57:39 wvdschel [~wim@d51A4AD58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 13:58:17 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:00:00 Pepe_ [~ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:15 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:36 -!- Sands [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:01:16 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has left #lisp 14:01:27 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:01:35 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:42 Is there a way to avoid those "undefined variable" warnings at the SBCL repl? 14:02:17 a way of globally defining a variable (or global to the current package), would be what I need 14:02:38 wvdschel: defvar or defparameter is one way 14:02:39 clhs defvar 14:02:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpar.htm 14:03:46 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:03:48 Xach, antifuchs: thanks 14:03:55 http://l1sp.org/sbcl/defglobal is another 14:04:05 not found? :( 14:05:56 wvdschel, see http://random-state.net/log/3451988257.html for a description of SBCL's DEFGLOBAL macro 14:06:41 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:07:03 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.5] has joined #lisp 14:07:11 Adlai: is that specific to SBCL or available in all CL implementations? 14:07:18 the former 14:07:33 although at least CLISP and CCL provide similar functionality 14:07:53 alright 14:07:55 thanks :) 14:07:55 CCL with defstatic, and CLISP with (shudder) setq 14:08:08 what's wrong with setq? 14:08:34 wvdschel: it's assignment 14:08:48 what's wrong with assignment? 14:09:02 what's wrong is the way clisp uses it in this case... it turns a setq on a variable that hasn't been declaimed special or bound lexically into a definition of a global variable 14:09:28 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:01 davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:57 I see 14:11:13 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.132.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:11:31 jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-237-77.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:38 ... SETQ or free access to a symbol in a value position that has been defined as neither a special variable nor a symbol-macro is a program error. 14:11:47 O.o 14:11:51 Adlai: you sure that's what clisp does? 14:11:56 And I think it'd be both amusing and in-character for SBCL to enforce that. 14:12:01 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:12:01 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:12:01 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:12:10 nyef: why amusing? 14:12:22 Ralith: because sbcl is like that 14:12:51 is that not a good thing? 14:13:02 Ralith, I think I saw it mentioned by Bruno Haible in a c.l.l post? 14:13:05 I think it is (: 14:13:09 It's a -great- thing... except when it's banning practices that you use. 14:13:23 Ralith: like other things in sbcl, it's out of line with traditional behavior. 14:13:28 but it's also annoying for somebody who does use SETF on the toplevel (: 14:13:29 And so -many- books recommend the practice, too. 14:13:38 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 14:13:45 nyef: many books recommend non-ANSI-compliant code? 14:13:51 Ralith, the hyperspec uses toplevel SETFs 14:13:52 antifuchs: Either SETF the SYMBOL-VALUE or use DEFPARAMETER already. 14:14:03 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:03 Adlai: In the examples, or elsewhere? 14:14:04 nyef: hey, /I/ don't 14:14:08 nyef, examples 14:14:14 Ralith: many books predate ANSI 14:14:14 (Examples aren't normative.) 14:14:18 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:14:21 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:14:22 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:14:32 Xach: well, then people shouldn't expect them to be entirely in line with it. 14:14:36 right, but it'd be very funny if examples that aren't supposed to be implementation-dependant fail on SBCL :) 14:14:48 nor should impls attempt to support multiple standards. 14:15:23 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 14:15:52 Ralith: People don't always have the historical context needed to appreciate the issues. 14:16:37 Xach: good thing SBCL generates an error to introduce them to them, then ^^ 14:17:14 Ralith: We're still figuring out what the spec actually requires in some places -now-, even more than ten years after it was published. 14:17:35 hooray inherited struct slot initforms 14:18:13 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d51A4AD58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 14:19:15 And the whole "exceptional situations" thing in the dictionary entries is clearly a guideline at best: Some functions which clearly have a few ways to fail don't have any exceptional situations listed. 14:20:31 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn141.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:52 rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-223-221.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 14:23:12 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066167.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:35 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:52 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:26:02 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066167.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 14:27:01 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:10 *splittist* was frightened by that Tim Bray (?) article about the style of the HTML5/WebSockets spec/s 14:28:45 Is there any good writeup on how to use CLISP (and CCL for that matter) with clbuild? SBCL is working fine, but I don't understand how to get/use other implementations. 14:29:30 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:29:30 tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.16] has joined #lisp 14:30:09 LiamH, I only use clbuild to pull in (and update) code, and I manage my lisp implementations separately through slime. 14:30:10 -!- tfb_ is now known as tfb 14:30:32 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1DCAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:30:52 Adlai: OK, but clbuild at least has to know about the imp you've manually pulled in, right? 14:31:53 it's the other way around here -- I push /path/to/clbuild/source/ onto asdf:*central-registry* in each lisp's init file 14:33:06 raison [~raison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 14:33:41 splittist: yeah, how dare a spec specify things? 14:33:57 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:57 it's, like, really constricting, man 14:34:33 How come (pathname-match-p "/tmp/" "/*") ==> nil 14:34:46 but (directory "/*") will include /tmp? 14:35:09 easyE: try "/*/"... or better yet, try something that's not a namestring 14:36:54 Right, but I am trying to understand the behavior of DIRECTORY. It should only return pathnames for which PATHNAME-MATCH-P returns true? It seems like it has "extra" values. 14:37:00 antifuchs: I admit I like the reader algorithm part of the CL spec. But specifying byte sequences rather than the text they represent seems perverse. I speak from secondary sources, only, of course. My real point is: 'Writing a spec is really hard!' 14:37:52 splittist: yeah, that was weird. but then, every spec that specifies an encoding does specify byte sequences... most of them bother to put an additional layer of abstraction in first, though (: 14:38:10 easyE: DIRECTORY returns truenames, which means that symlinks will be resolved 14:38:20 specifying byte sequences? 14:38:21 easyE: so not all pathnames that are returned by DIRECTORY need to match 14:38:21 It's like Knuth used /only/ [M]MIX... 14:39:04 MMIX is tres cool. 14:39:59 Adlai: Oh, OK, so that's all you need to do? 14:40:12 Note that DIRECTORY is the only portably-defined method by which to test for the existence of a directory by a given name... and it doesn't work. 14:40:41 nyef: yeah, the whole of DIRECTORY is a huge bummer 14:40:46 nyef: duly noted. 14:40:50 to which splittist's earlier point also applies (: 14:41:00 But if /tmp ain't a symlink, it still is returned. 14:41:37 LiamH, looking at 'clbuild --long-help', it seems that clbuild can be used to manage some asdf and slime setup issues, but I was using asdf and slime before I found out about clbuild 14:41:50 easyE: Also note that /tmp is a file, while /tmp/ is a directory, and nothing in the spec appears to disallow having both. 14:42:03 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066167.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:42:04 I guess "/tmp" is promoted to "/tmp/" as the truename after the match. Is that what you are trying to explain to me antifuchs? Then that makes sense. 14:42:26 hm, I was trying to explain two things 14:42:34 Adlai: So was I, long before. It's just not clear to me how to use clbuild to do this, but I'll dig through the script to see. 14:42:38 one, directory resolves truenames, meaning symlinks will be resolved 14:42:49 check. 14:43:01 two, /tmp gets promoted to /tmp/, but as part of the regular pathname system stuff 14:43:15 Right. 14:43:43 Ok. I think I understand better now. nyef's remark about "/tmp" being both a directory and a file helps too. 14:43:44 Thanks. 14:43:47 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:22 cool. you may be interested in with-directory-iterator and its equivalent in iolib, too 14:44:37 that one doesn't resolve symlinks (: 14:44:42 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:55 Right now I'm rationalizing the handling of wildcards with jar pathnames in ABCL. But thanks for the reference. 14:45:23 LiamH, I think you can put "clbuild lisp" as your slime-lisp-implementation, or something along those lines 14:45:52 Adlai: OK, good to know. 14:46:47 don't take my word, though, I only use clbuild to automate library getting and updating 14:46:49 -!- Soulman__ [~kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:46:52 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:48:35 that works well enough to actually put in a bin/sbcl somewhere in my path (-: 14:48:49 (I use "clbuild lisp" as my sbcl build host) (: 14:51:11 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has joined #lisp 14:54:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:55:38 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-32-109-108.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 14:58:24 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:31 -!- davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:14 pix4 [~pixel@dslb-088-078-031-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:50 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:11:33 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:11:53 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 15:11:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-202-128.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:56 -!- PuffTheMagic_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:13:16 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:53 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 15:21:38 -!- Younder [~jthing@75.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:22:38 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 15:22:59 anyone tried using CLISP with bordeaux-threads? 15:23:15 2.48 seems to be lacking THREAD-JOIN, which b-t refers to 15:25:22 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:26:58 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:26:58 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:09 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:27 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.147] has joined #lisp 15:31:34 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:35:45 Anyone running SBCL for a Unix Daemon? We've been trying to do this, and haven't figured out how to keep it from writing to *terminal-io*... 15:36:57 rpg, there are command line options that make it quiet. maybe I'm misunderstanding your question? 15:37:20 Adlai: No, that's the question --- we've been having error strings slip out to *terminal-io*... 15:37:59 ok, I thought you were referring to the repl and banner 15:38:20 Seems like this can happen even with --disable-debugger... 15:39:02 you could just (setf *terminal-io* (make-broadcast-stream)) 15:41:31 rpg, if the problem is warnings, you can also (proclaim '(sb-ext:muffle-conditions warning)), or if it's just compilater notes, muffle sb-ext:compiler-note instead 15:42:17 on a tangent -- what's the purpose of synonym streams? 15:42:22 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:42:32 I'm going to check with my colleague and find out what exact messages are coming out. But this is from a saved image, so not compiler notes or warnings.... 15:43:50 seems to happen when you blow all the way down to the ldb... 15:43:51 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Home time!] 15:44:16 I think just setting *terminal-io* (and any other global I/O streams) to (make-broadcast-stream) will do the trick 15:44:47 Adlai: I wonder if that's true even for ldb... 15:45:15 you can disable ldb 15:45:21 -!- HET2 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:45:30 if you're hitting LDB, aren't there more pressing problems than muffling the streams? 15:45:40 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:46:48 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: home] 15:51:03 dnolen_ [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:05 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:53:10 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:53:10 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 15:53:10 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Client Quit] 15:54:07 Adlai: Good point... 15:54:45 pjb [~t@80.29.243.72] has joined #lisp 15:55:53 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-056-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:56 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-056-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 15:58:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:00:20 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:33 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.163.39.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:01:23 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:19 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:17 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:04:47 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:27 New SLIME question: I used load-system to asdf-load a system. Now I see in the mode that the load finished with one warning. Where did the output go? It's not in *inferior-lisp*... 16:07:38 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:36 <_8david> My servers are all started by a wrapper written in C, which does the fork&exec and handled the usual daemon process setup. fd 0,1,2 are close()ed and open() or dup()ed to a log file. If you don't want a log file, /dev/null would also work. 16:10:05 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #lisp 16:10:31 <_8david> The advantage is that FFI stuff also writes to those FDs. If you only change the lisp streams, FFI libraries would still talk to fds 1 and 2. 16:11:12 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:11:23 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:03 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Client Quit] 16:14:31 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:51 jewel [~jewel@41.31.155.136] has joined #lisp 16:21:32 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has joined #lisp 16:22:05 rpg: *Slime Compilation Notes* or similiarly 16:22:14 rpg: You can use M-x next-error to jump to the location 16:22:18 C-x ` 16:24:51 _8david: is your C wrapper called detachtty? 16:28:00 tcr: thanks! 16:28:22 tcr: I wasn't able to tell from the minibuffer if my load-system was successful or not (since warnings can cause failure...) 16:30:47 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:36 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-plehztvngoptrrmb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:31:40 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:00 brown [~user@2620:0:1003:1000:216:e6ff:fed5:8b75] has joined #lisp 16:32:08 -!- brown is now known as reb 16:33:53 The message in the minibuffer is not always telling. 16:34:00 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn141.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 16:34:08 There's some cleanup long overdue in the backends 16:34:29 smanek [~smanek@63.74.178.2] has joined #lisp 16:36:01 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 16:37:42 What's the right way to resolve a logical pathname to a namestring? 16:38:36 (namestring (truename ...)) may signal an error in case the pathname does not exist 16:38:55 (probe-file)? 16:39:21 tcr: translate-logical-pathname 16:39:32 tcr: plus namestring 16:39:40 Ah, yeah. 16:40:35 thanks 16:40:38 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:44:02 I'm still waiting on XCG2LPNs. No rush... 16:45:11 *Xach* has it on a burner, will not say location of burner 16:45:49 I'd love to have generators in CL 16:46:24 tcr: generators in what way? 16:47:00 like in python 16:47:06 not graphics generators a la wigflip.com 16:48:18 rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:09 tcr: would it really require changes to language? 16:49:45 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50:30 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:52:44 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 16:53:10 mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:54:02 davazp [~user@11.Red-79-154-141.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:21 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:55:12 To be part of the language, sure 16:55:24 Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:57 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.31.155.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:56:08 fiveop [~fiveop@g229115072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:56:39 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:19 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:25 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-ponfroyqetclqarh] has joined #lisp 16:58:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:58:56 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:59:23 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:00:00 If I write a function, is there a way to find out which function called that particular function? 17:00:34 madnificent: not a standard way. 17:00:46 tcr: would it be enough to have SERIES as part of the language and extensible sequence protocol and other? 17:00:49 thanks Xach 17:01:43 if you use SLIME there are some commands that should show you callers. i don't remember the exact commands. 17:02:19 *and other such protocols? 17:03:01 SERIES doesn't work well when the SERIES's are used across defun boundaries, which makes it unideal for generators. 17:03:06 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DC56.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:08 madnificent, M-? 17:03:24 I use that, and I think also M-_ does the same thing 17:03:35 SERIES depends for efficiencies on processing within a syntactically-closed area. 17:03:53 rpg: I meant it more as an example, not necessarily the solution 17:04:05 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:04:30 kinda actually thought of how it goes in Haskell with typeclasses etc. 17:04:39 Isn't there something about generators in CLtL2? 17:04:42 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:04:46 I forget... 17:05:10 iirc, CLtL2 generators are part of SERIES 17:05:22 does anyone know if you add a hook to leave/kick events if the default hooks will still be called? 17:05:28 p_l, SERIES is pretty different from Python's generators, though 17:08:15 Adlai: I meant in the lisp function itself 17:08:48 for instance if I'd want to print the name of the function that called a function I wrote 17:09:03 madnificent, oh, for that you need reflective continuations, and that's not even standard scheme :) 17:09:10 (gambit has a continuation inspector, though) 17:11:07 ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:56 jewel [~jewel@41.28.189.147] has joined #lisp 17:16:19 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 17:18:40 is it legal in Lisp to do (defmethod name ((arg type1 type2 type3)) ...) ? 17:18:51 sbcl doesnt complain but im not sure if it is correc 17:18:51 t 17:18:56 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:07 PissedNumlock, no, that should be an error 17:19:36 a method has one specializer per required arg 17:19:51 does it have another meaning or is that a bug I should submit? 17:20:05 nunb [~nundan@112.110.1.142] has joined #lisp 17:20:21 probably counts as a bug... if it's not specified to be an error, I'd say it's a "bug" in the spec. 17:20:44 yeah, it's a bug in SBCL (look at the EBNF for defmethod) 17:20:46 clhs defmethod 17:20:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmet.htm 17:21:29 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:36 sbcl does complain when you try to call that method 17:22:36 thx for the info 17:23:06 -!- pjb [~t@80.29.243.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:29:41 -!- reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:13 -!- silenius [~jl@2a01:238:e100:320:21f:c6ff:fed7:73bb] has quit [Quit: silenius] 17:30:52 are there any tricks to reduce consing when using bignums? 17:31:26 Yes, but the amount to not using bignums. 17:31:45 bah 17:31:58 that doesn't help with computing double factorials 17:32:00 (don't ask) 17:32:09 ... Okay, I won't ask. 17:32:31 mathrick, see http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/ObjectIdentity.html#fn11 17:33:06 (a bit of tangential humor) 17:33:12 nyef: btw, GHC ended up getting a LLVM backend after all (and I do recall a friend claiming that it wouldn't really fit). They've got some interesting results for numeric code 17:33:36 p_l, does it go through C--, or straight to LLVM assembler? 17:33:39 I guess your other option might be to abuse the bignum machinery on your implementation so that you can do things in unboxed integers and then assemble a bignum as you go. 17:33:42 Adlai: straight to LLVM 17:33:58 speaking of C--, is there any Lisp that compiles to C-- ? 17:34:00 p_l: Hunh. Neat, I guess. 17:34:06 Adlai: similar to how NGC backend works 17:34:06 nyef: not that it's anywhere important enough, but for future reference, how'd I do that? 17:34:22 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.28.189.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:28 http://donsbot.wordpress.com/2010/02/21/smoking-fast-haskell-code-using-ghcs-new-llvm-codegen/ <--- here, with some experimental data 17:34:43 mathrick, figure out if you can reuse the storage of one bignum for the result of a calculation 17:34:45 mathrick: It's a grab-bag of things, can depend on your implementation, etc. 17:35:01 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 17:35:06 nyef: well, I mean the general idea 17:35:36 Do things in terms of a fixed-size chunk of number. 17:35:38 milanj [~milan@93.86.187.26] has joined #lisp 17:36:02 p_l, is there a typo near the top? GCC instead of GHC? 17:36:12 Such as adding two huge numbers in terms of one decimal digit from each number and a notion of carry. 17:36:17 Only generalized from there. 17:36:46 nyef, couldn't it also be useful to reuse the space? mathrick's original question was about reducing consing, after all. 17:36:51 nyef: right, but I'm not quite sure how that'd give me a speedup over (presumably) optimised bignums in SBCL 17:37:06 adlai: well, really I want to make it go faster 17:37:11 mathrick: One part is that it allows you to re-use storage. 17:37:14 which usually amounts to "less consing" 17:37:35 Adlai: GHC has two backends, with LLVM joining as third 17:37:47 And that means less consing for intermediate results, which means faster. Plus you no longer pay a cost for conditional unboxing, etc. 17:37:52 p_l, I see, so one GHC backend reuses the GCC backend? 17:37:59 or mid- and backend 17:38:10 or heck, it could even output C and reuse all of GCC :) 17:38:35 Adlai: one is NGC - which is direct generation of assembler code, GCC which generates C code compiled with GCC, then iirc optionally does extra transforms on generated assembly, and now direct LLVM 17:39:11 and has anyone looked at LLVM's code generation? 17:39:21 in terms of reusing it for Lisp I mean 17:39:55 wasn't somebody looking into an LLVM backend for SBCL? 17:40:01 mathrick: the link I gave shows examples for tight loops in Haskell, but so far no-one got a CL running with it... one, it would require some C++ coding 17:40:37 there are also multiple strategies to use LLVM for compiling 17:40:47 nyef: I wonder if that's a good idea. On my x86 I'd have to restrict myself to some ridiculously small numbers per multiplication to stay within SBCL's 29-bit integers 17:41:01 p_l: yeah, the C++ part is fairly disgusting 17:41:09 also it seems to be very heavy on the memory 17:41:10 mathrick: 32-bit unboxed integers. 17:41:26 not that I have any idea how much mem SBCL's JIT consumes 17:41:50 nyef: can I even get that on SBCL? 17:42:08 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:42:23 mathrick: an interesting way would be to implement a small, non-GC'ed lisp-like language directly in C++ and then use it to implement all necessary primitives for CL runtime 17:42:25 Sure. You just can't pass them into or out of a function without boxing. 17:42:26 ...SBCL has a JIT? 17:42:37 nyef: oh, tell me more 17:42:40 sykopomp: well, incremental compilation is more like it, afaik 17:42:51 sykopomp, arguably, every CL is JIT 17:43:15 adlai: it would be permissible to have a purely interpreted CL too 17:43:24 (as long as you keep the semantics right) 17:43:27 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 17:43:29 mathrick: The top-secret documentation is here: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Modular-arithmetic.html#Modular-arithmetic 17:43:30 mathrick, that's just a bad compiler! :P 17:43:53 konr [~user@189.96.221.161] has joined #lisp 17:44:06 nyef: oh, that thing 17:44:31 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-221-58.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:46:03 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 17:46:03 Adlai: well, VLM was completely interpreted and iirc could actually contest with compilers... 17:46:48 p_l: Incompletely interpreted: It still compiled to bytecode, did it not? 17:47:02 nyef: no, it interpreted Ivory instruction set 17:47:15 Which amounts to bytecode, does it not? 17:47:28 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@port-11420.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:47:48 nyef: not exactly, I'd say. Ivory was a microcoded machine, so the definition of "bytecode" gets slightly murky 17:48:05 macrocode <=> bytecode. 17:48:26 what they tried (and supposedly accomplished) was to write an equivalent of platform-specific microcode on top of a RISC cpu 17:48:31 (Alternately, "bytecode is macrocode for a traditionally non-microcoded machine".) 17:48:54 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:49:20 nyef: I'd say it depends on the structure of the code... Python bytecode for example is much higher level than Ivory, iirc 17:49:29 (as in CPython, I mean) 17:49:42 -!- sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:51:29 -!- pix4 [~pixel@dslb-088-078-031-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:51:32 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:53:48 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 17:55:46 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:51 sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 17:58:17 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:59:36 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00:05 Jabberwockey [~jens@port-12710.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 18:00:19 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:58 jewel [~jewel@41.30.54.176] has joined #lisp 18:01:20 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 18:04:17 Okay, I'm gone for the day. 18:04:23 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-146-224.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Off towards boston.] 18:05:09 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:00 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 18:08:12 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:09:32 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.30.54.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:09:55 -!- phnglui [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:55 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-199-126.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:11 Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-199-126.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:33 phnglui [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:28 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:17:19 -!- borism [~boris@213-35-235-6-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:17:40 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:17:50 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 18:23:12 p_l: what's VLM? 18:23:28 virtual lisp machine? 18:24:25 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:26:33 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:26:35 Younder [~jthing@75.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:29:06 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:31:50 mathrick: Virtual Lisp Machine. An Alpha implementation of Ivory microcode + few devices 18:32:13 ran a modified version of Genera, OpenGenera :) 18:32:29 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:35 Phooodus [foo@97-124-127-114.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:05 -!- Phoodus [foo@97-124-127-114.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:35:48 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:36:58 as for possible LLVM-based CL, it would be probably most prudent to actually make the compiler in C++, but just the compiler and some very, very simple runtime, then implement all the rest on CL side. And the compiler to be actually for a simple, non-GCed DSL (but with all the hooks etc.) that would be middle-level transformation before going to LLVM 18:37:35 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:53 could xcl be of help here? 18:38:16 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:38:47 guaqua: possible 18:39:04 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:08 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:39:18 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-199-126.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:39:26 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:39:47 anyway, this way it would be possible to avoid certain issues of interfacing with C++ by basically making the Lisp<->C++ interaction nearly nil 18:39:56 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 18:40:23 OTOH, it might be possible to incorporate Clang and see if we could use it to dynamically generate C++ classes etc., thus creating (finally) an easy way to interact with C++ :D 18:41:13 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:41:29 does clang even support C++ yet? 18:41:49 rsynnott: not completely, I think the biggest missing point are templates 18:42:01 pjb [~t@80.29.230.221] has joined #lisp 18:42:03 That's a fairly big missing point ;) 18:42:07 but frankly speaking, I'm not sure how to FFI to templates :P 18:42:44 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:58 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.124.176] has joined #lisp 18:43:44 -!- davazp [~user@11.Red-79-154-141.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:58 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:44:01 dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 18:44:08 for me, most of the time, just proper FFI to classes would be enough. Usually the libraries that have APIs heavy on templates are really C++ specific... 18:48:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:48:33 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.16] has quit [Quit: tfb] 18:48:33 clang supports C++ almost completely 18:48:42 it can compile itself now, which is a major accomplishment 18:49:13 foom: can it link with GCC-produced libraries on systems other than OSX? 18:49:47 for C++? Likely, but I have no direct information. For C, certainly. 18:49:56 It doesn't actually have an assembler yet (there's one in development) 18:50:07 It just uses the native assembler/linker. 18:50:28 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 18:50:53 foom: iirc it's related to LLVM, which currently either generates code directly to memory (JIT mode) or outputs files for GAS then runs a modified linker process 18:51:18 AFAIK there were mentions of making their own "binutils" equivalent 18:51:25 llvm-mc 18:51:33 is the in-development replacement for gas. 18:51:36 HG` [~HG@xdslej041.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:46 I don't know if there's any plans to replace ld 18:51:51 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:52:17 Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-58-127.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:23 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslej041.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:52:37 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 18:52:39 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:53:15 foom: there's already a rather specific ld modification, last time I checked, probably because its linker actually needs to get bytecode, not assembly, as input 18:54:47 p_l: maybe you're thinking of "llvm-ld" which is actually something different. 18:55:03 p_l: that's for linking together bitcode files into another bitcode file. 18:55:38 foom: possible, I just recall that the actual assembly in LLVM was slightly different (as in, source -> bytecode -> bytecode linker -> assembler -> native linker; or something like that) 18:55:46 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:56:26 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:58:17 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-75-98.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:01:07 I'm pretty sure the normal way to use it is like gcc: source -> clang (invokes gasm for you) -> object file -> native linker -> executable. You can also do source -> clang -> bytecode -> native linker (gold with llvm plugin) doing LTO -> executable. 19:01:57 neme4ta [~rpm@chat.sysert.ru] has joined #lisp 19:03:42 foom: maybe, I have to install clang and experiment with it, especially its API 19:03:45 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:04:59 damn, clang's website fails on me 19:05:07 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:35 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 19:05:56 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:59 from their irc channel is sounds like they've having some sort of massive amounts of automated email-sending crisis and turned everything off. :) 19:06:57 heh 19:07:14 still, the fact that clang is actually a library might help with stuff like SWIG 19:07:37 since it can actually output a nice datastructure describing code that was fed to it 19:07:47 (unlike GCC, where it's frowned upon) 19:08:15 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:58 so you could actually use it for both groveling and generation of wrappers 19:11:21 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-249-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:11:28 well, a lot of tools use gcc-xml. 19:11:45 it's just been a pain that you couldn't do it with upstream gcc. 19:12:04 foom: yes, but as far as I know, GCC-XML outputs stuff based on GCC's RTL, it's basically a backend to GCC, right? 19:12:27 Clang otoh gives you info on all stages. 19:12:57 so you know down to how y = -x + x gets transformed into y=0 :) 19:13:35 gcc-xml only outputs header-type info 19:13:47 you can't get anything from it beyond what you'd need to generate bindings. 19:14:00 function signatures, struct layouts, etc. 19:14:04 Algid [~dash@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:30 well, Clang gives you info on everything, depends what you want (you can hook into any stage of compilation, including pre-processor iirc) 19:14:49 so it should be possible to even grovel properly preprocessor macros 19:15:51 -!- splittist [~3ecbba7a@gateway/web/freenode/x-fpcngycivspfzckt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:15:58 possibly down to things like automatic encapsulation of C++ exceptions to CL conditions 19:16:28 could do that anyways. that information is available at runtime. 19:20:53 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:06 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:21:16 mega1 [~quassel@3e70cb73.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 19:22:29 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 19:23:35 foom: yes, but basically one of design goals of clang was easy access to as much information as possible 19:23:49 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:24:41 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:25:16 it's definitely an interesting project, and results from GHC-LLVM are very interesting 19:25:41 brill [~brill@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:25:54 it would be nice to get cheap FFI as well... 19:26:50 I'd guess it should be possible to make a transform that would move FFI calls into a special block (where possible) that would execute in C/C++-like environment to minimize switching 19:27:21 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@222-154-179-53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:27:32 -!- brill [~brill@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 19:27:37 wlr_ [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:47 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:00 I'd actually like to reuse a lot of SBCL's code if I went for making CL-on-LLVM 19:32:11 jmbr [~jmbr@131.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:36:25 XCL has this little problem for me that is called "GPL" 19:38:19 -!- malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:38:58 I really wish the fsf would clarify the implications of the gpl on lisp systems. 19:39:22 Fade: as viral as they can make it out to be. 19:39:59 well, it doesn't make sense because the implications for lisp are much more virulent than for c or c++ systems. 19:40:08 p_l: they will not, they want everything to be GPL, and they'll say that as late as they can 19:40:09 way outside what was intended for thelicense, imo. 19:40:32 which is what my lawyer told me when I asked her to review it. 19:41:03 Fade: did she make any comments on the LLGPL? 19:41:16 HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:41:19 she thought that the lgpl was in scope 19:41:37 in scope of what? 19:41:38 the franz extention also should have the intended consequences. 19:41:44 wrt linkage. 19:42:34 sykopomp: where the scope is to allow foreign systems to integrate with lgpl code w/out license transmission. 19:42:52 ephcon [~ephcon@n250-32.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 19:43:56 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:47:17 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-75-98.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:02 enthymene [~kraken@130.166.209.12] has joined #lisp 19:49:22 madnificent: well, that's why I'm not planning to use any bit of XCL source. I might read it and learn from it, but I'm not going to copy even a line without explicit relicensing permission 19:49:23 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:49:52 it's also why I'm going to use SBCL for any "code transplants" if I'm going to implement anything like that 19:50:39 malsyned [~malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:38 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-75-98.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:53:03 I don't have any explicit problems with GPL, but I just know that some of my code I might want to use in proprietary licensing schemes. 19:53:10 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:53:20 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 19:53:31 I don't like LLGPL, because it actually has additional restrictions over the LGPL. 19:53:38 (I already set up my own policy regarding licensing of any code I'm releasing, just in case) 19:53:42 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 19:53:58 it's not a clarification, it's an entirely new license, but presented in a way that makes that unclear. 19:55:08 *p_l* uses three licenses - WTFPL, MIT and 19:55:14 -!- wlr_ [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:00 The LGPL is all about ensuring that you can modify the LGPL'd portions of the code, even when they're included in another program. LLGPL doesn't have that at all. But it does add restrictions on which parts of the LLGPL'd code you're allowed to override, which the LGPL says nothing about. 19:57:30 Taking a license and entirely changing its character via some prepended clarifications seems like a remarkably bad way to go about creating an understandable license. 19:57:55 foom: that's why I only release code with MIT license for now 19:57:58 -!- UnwashedMeme [~nathan@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:10 It seems to me that the LGPL actually makes perfect sense for a lisp system. All you have to do is release the fasls for your app so you can recompile the modified source for the LGPL'd portion and relink. 20:00:21 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:01:03 I use MIT or BSD... But I actually don't really care what happens to the code. 20:01:20 p_l: thanks for keeping your code really free (libre) :) 20:01:46 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1cb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:02:58 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-75-98.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:10 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:05:41 foom: what I'd like is a license that would require the publisher of software to either provide source to the library that was linked or link to original source in case the code was used verbatim without changes. "Changes" would include monkey patching. I don't care that much about relinking 20:06:33 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:07:18 tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:19 deathdefineslife [~jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:09:00 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1cb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:09:27 I'm not sure why monkey-patching is more important to forbid in a lisp library than a C library. 20:09:35 It's just as possible in both situations. 20:09:44 I'm with foom. 20:10:09 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:10:25 ook 20:10:40 p_l: doesen't GPLv3 require that? 20:11:20 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:11:22 saikatc [~saikatc@rescomp-09-132118.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:12:02 Blkt: I'm not sure regarding GPLv3, and frankly speaking I'm wary of GPL unless I'm 100% sure I want GPLv2 :) 20:12:52 foom: well, monkey patching I'd have to check, but it *is* a question when the licence is based about "changes" 20:13:06 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 20:13:15 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:15:11 sure, it will become a grey area if you do anything at all complex, whether that makes your stuff a derived work or not. 20:15:35 but again, it's easily done with a C library, and it doesn't seem to have been much cause for concern 20:16:06 if you define a function in your app with the same name as a function in a library, yours will be used instead. 20:16:19 (on linux, behavior on other OSes may vary) 20:17:41 foom: I thought the effect of ordering on linking was defined? 20:17:58 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-75-98.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:18:23 pkhuong: it is defined for Linux/ELF. 20:18:35 pkhuong: that says nothing about OSX/Mach-O (which uses a totally different scheme) 20:18:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DC56.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:57 mm... I'll have to review some of my stuff then :\ 20:19:14 stipet [~user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:19:22 or, if you happen to link with -Bsymbolic on linux/ELF, again, different semantics. 20:19:56 jmbr_ [~jmbr@131.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:21:01 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-75-98.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:25 -!- konr [~user@189.96.221.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:21:26 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@131.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:21:43 konr` [~user@187.88.151.72] has joined #lisp 20:22:12 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 20:24:04 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:26:26 -!- stipet [~user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: sleepy time] 20:26:59 -Bsymbolic always seemed to me to be a misnomer 20:27:14 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.147] has joined #lisp 20:29:27 foom: there's also GCC visibility attributes 20:29:30 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:29:48 right, and you can actually use that in real programs unlike -Bsymbolic. :) 20:29:55 a library might always prefer symbols that are inside library 20:31:24 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:32:16 I dimly remember a product that used -Bsymbolic for performance reasons. compiled object files destined for shared libraries without -fPIC, also for performance reasons. 20:32:46 all that supported by benchmarks etc. 20:33:32 you just never know what awful hack may turn out to be handy :) 20:33:45 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 20:35:19 -!- konr` is now known as konr 20:36:14 cmm-: sounds kinda like what ANSYS might do :D 20:37:40 Actually, I suspect (I never bothered to check) that ANSYS includes a linker and complete set of static libraries :D 20:37:48 p_l: kinda like, yes. the common thing being simulation 20:37:54 cause I recall finding a "relinker" as "configuration tool" 20:39:02 and yes, ANSYS is big on performance. 20:39:17 well, the non-PIC-shared-object trick is not exactly portable :) 20:39:40 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:49 After all, people are warned when different research groups pool money for a cluster to run it, that you shall be wary of people running ANSYS CFX, for it eats whatever resources you give it :D 20:40:21 and I found the relinker on Windows, where the libraries aren't required to be PIC anyway 20:40:24 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:40:26 that's sound engineering :) 20:41:26 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:41:32 the trick only makes sense on x86, because the PIC performance problems stem from the fact that you lose a whole register 20:42:25 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.124.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:42:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:42:31 just going all-static is a better idea, if you can afford it. EDA products usually can't 20:43:08 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.87] has joined #lisp 20:43:52 rossome [~none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 20:43:55 well, ANSYS is a giant package that runs on many platforms (and is probably one of the few that jumped ship to x86-64 *very* fast) 20:44:23 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:29 official release notes state that running ANSYS on 32bit systems is not advised :D 20:46:25 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:47:12 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-217-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:34 ANSYS - computational fluid dynamics = performance hog 20:47:41 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:43 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@rescomp-09-132118.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:14 Younder: CFD is widely acclaimed as computational black hole - it eats any amount of computational power :) 20:50:46 propably the only contestant is particle research, but that's because it's kinda similar :P 20:53:49 saikatc [~saikatc@128.12.248.104] has joined #lisp 20:54:46 -!- konr [~user@187.88.151.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:17 konr [~user@189.96.209.142] has joined #lisp 20:59:07 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 20:59:24 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:00:15 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082FC4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:27 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@n250-32.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:02:12 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:02:12 Uhoh, did Tobias' recent work on SLIME break ecl-10.2.1 for anyone else? 21:02:25 p_l: various linalg stuff too. 21:02:31 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 21:03:03 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229115072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:03:22 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082E537.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:04:19 easyE: Yes 21:04:20 easyE pasted "ecl-10.2.1 with SLIME 2010-02-22" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95440 21:04:38 Yeah swank-ecl is in flux 21:04:52 Ok. As long as ya know. 21:04:53 I'm about to commit in ~10-15minutes 21:05:04 but you'll need ECL git head 21:05:08 No problem. Uggh. 21:05:27 I'm trying to keep ECL + SLIME working on MacPorts. 21:05:34 You should probably wait until the 10.2.1 release is out 21:05:49 Perhaps that will happen next weekend, perhaps the weekend after that 21:05:57 But I'm running ecl-10.2.1 aren't I? 21:06:01 *easyE* looks. 21:06:06 the development tree of it 21:06:12 Ah. 21:06:35 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:06:36 That said, swank-ecl.lisp in slime CVS will barf on compilation if you try anything < than that 21:06:37 No problem. ECL is hot for me right now 'cuz it runs on iPhone OS 21:06:47 But I can wait a bit. 21:07:02 Yeah wait a bit, also refrain from updating Slime in case you running ECL 9.x 21:07:33 The upshot is that it'll eventually integrate properly into slime 21:07:37 Well, my primary goal is to make MacPorts SLIME and ECL work for people. 21:07:38 *madnificent* shouts: I want lisp on android 21:07:40 Great. 21:08:05 easyE: I just made M-. be able to jump into the C source code. I think we could make the same for ABCL. 21:08:15 Does etags support java? 21:08:22 Thanks for including me on the invitation for Saturday. 21:08:28 tcr: sure. Lisp and C-likes. 21:08:31 *easyE* is honored to be a Lisp hacker! 21:09:08 pkhuong: I'm not sure how well the TAGS concept fits to methods-in-classses 21:09:26 For Java code? Yeah, I was looking at getting frame source locaions working last night. 21:09:47 I'll come to #abcl 21:09:48 doesn't javac store that sort of debug information? 21:10:01 We won't have local variables in any near future that I can steer towards, but we should be able to get frame source locations, goll darnit! 21:10:40 M-. works for some definitions in ABCL. 21:10:54 pkhuong: ABCL builds its own stack trace, ECL does that too. 21:11:18 I guess it'd be difficult otherwise to differentiate between what's java and what belongs to Lisp, although it would be TRT 21:11:38 What's the problem? As long as it goes to both. 21:11:56 I mean, if javac stores it somewhere, it's available through introspection/reflexion or something no? That'd work better than TAGS. 21:12:32 phkuong: yeah, its present. 21:12:33 exceptions automatically StackTraces consisting of StackFrames consistings of filename+line nr 21:12:56 *tcr* back to code 21:13:03 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 21:13:07 Thanks Tobias! Happy hackin' 21:13:54 pkhuong: TAGS based has its advantages 21:14:12 pkhuong: Because the ECL stuff is TAGS based M-. and M-* will continue DTRT once in a .c file 21:14:57 It'd be nice to have M-. merge TAGS and SLIME definition finding. That's what you're cooking up, right? 21:15:19 Yes that's what a previous changeset already does 21:15:25 Cool. 21:15:55 backends can now specify (make-location `(:etags-file "somewhere/TAGS") `(:TAG "candidate1" ...)) and slime will interpret that correctly 21:16:13 skeptomai [~cb@67.40.185.246] has joined #lisp 21:16:16 *p_l* noticed that output of #'disassemble on LLVM-based lisp might be rather interesting... 21:17:01 Might be interesting to make ECL use clang rather than GCC :-) 21:17:10 tcr: might be good for very early stuff in SBCL. 21:18:49 pkhuong: heller committed a crude hack so v on foreign frames will go into cmucl's c source by forking external gdb -p , and then parsing gdb's output for info line * 21:20:18 *Xach* tries to figure out if that's crude or delightful 21:20:18 TAGS works pretty well already. I was thinking of early-*.lisp. 21:23:20 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:23:55 Xach: Parsing output is crude, it doesn't work on my version of gdb 21:24:17 idea is cute :-) 21:24:59 libgdb... 21:25:27 I blame unix 21:27:26 marioxcc [~user@201.132.143.86] has joined #lisp 21:28:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 21:28:18 -!- ryepup [~ryepup@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 21:33:23 -!- konr is now known as konrr 21:33:26 -!- konrr [~user@189.96.209.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:46 konr [~user@189.96.209.142] has joined #lisp 21:36:13 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:59 tcr: getting ECL to use clang would be probably a weekend job 21:37:02 ryepup [~ryepup@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 21:37:57 tcr: change that to a month and you'd probably see ECL directly linked to clang, without bytecode compiler present in current version, generating code on the fly and doing crazy shit with linker ;-) 21:38:12 -!- deathdefineslife [~jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 21:38:40 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:38:54 (like #'save-lisp-but-don't-die ^_-) 21:40:29 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:41:45 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:51 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:25 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:43 francogrex [~user@66.43-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:50:26 -!- BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:50:54 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:22 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:32 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:21 BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 21:56:24 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:57:49 ephcon [~ephcon@student165-164.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 21:58:00 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756fc5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:59 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:01:57 -!- francogrex [~user@66.43-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:01:59 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@72.8.31.30] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 22:02:42 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 22:05:02 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:07:52 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 22:14:38 dabd [~dabd@a85-139-97-227.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 22:14:40 sierinjs [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has joined #lisp 22:15:05 How do I catch a interrupt from emacs? Is there some kind of try .. finally? 22:15:18 try in #lisp, finally go to #emacs 22:15:25 hi, can I multipe-value-bind and not care about ignored variables unless they are used? If I (declare (ignore foo)) on each one, and end up using them, I'll still get an error that I'm using an ignored variable 22:15:48 egn_: ignorable 22:15:54 clhs ignorable 22:15:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_ignore.htm 22:16:40 stassats: thanks 22:17:00 -!- smanek [~smanek@63.74.178.2] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:17:03 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 22:17:31 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student165-164.hampshire.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:41 -!- sierinjs [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has quit [Quit: Ninja, please.] 22:17:51 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:18:05 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:22:06 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:17 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:02 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.61] has joined #lisp 22:23:21 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-112-135.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:19 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.147] has joined #lisp 22:28:18 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:28:44 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-056-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:56 minion: memo for Xof: what do you think an appropriate error message for https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/525916 is? I've added extra checking code in PARSE-SPECIALIZED-LAMBDA-LIST, but can't come up with a good error message 22:28:57 Remembered. I'll tell Xof when he/she/it next speaks. 22:29:48 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-056-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 22:32:22 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@131.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:33:57 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@apn-94-44-21-249.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:36:56 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:14 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 22:37:31 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 22:37:35 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 22:40:43 airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:41:29 hmm... I wonder, what would be better, classic compiling to LLVM ISA or implementing several VOPs directly in LLVM to deal with Lisp stuff 22:42:03 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:27 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:44:14 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-44-39.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:46:06 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-53-8.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:46:16 davazp [~user@198.Red-88-1-98.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:34 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-44-39.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:50:33 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:52:02 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:51 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.143.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:55:27 -!- mstevens 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