00:03:06 ouch, merge is taken, too 00:03:14 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #lisp 00:03:15 instead of append or merge... 00:03:42 sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.18.66] has joined #lisp 00:04:14 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.18.66] has quit [Client Quit] 00:04:51 join! 00:05:19 jared [~jared@87-194-195-54.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:05:26 -!- jared [~jared@87-194-195-54.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 00:07:24 I have a path object #p"/some/path/to/a/file.mp3" - how can I get just the file.mp3 from it? 00:07:51 clhs file-namestring 00:07:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 00:08:37 wow, that worked perfectly, thank you 00:08:50 ... That sounds like a question for gigabot! 00:10:21 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:36 -!- Alabaman [~badgerfac@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:22:16 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:00 holycow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:05 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.147] has joined #lisp 00:24:28 -!- dunkyp [~dunkyp@78-105-237-151.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:25:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: :D] 00:26:37 das64 [~das@adsl-67-124-39-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:36 dnolen_ [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:58 drafael [~tapio@ip-118-90-137-134.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:31:02 djanatyn_ [~djanatyn@pool-74-98-199-53.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:24 -!- drafael [~tapio@ip-118-90-137-134.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:45 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:45 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 00:34:17 cmsimon [~iamcms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 00:35:42 -!- mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.6.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:44:21 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:48:20 -!- Phooodus [foo@97-124-127-114.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:56:25 herbieB: any use? 00:58:00 slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 00:59:37 -!- slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:00:02 Hrm, I can't find out how to get hunchentoot/cl-who to output html5 :P 01:00:08 slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:42 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 01:03:42 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 01:04:28 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:04:38 seangrove: doesn't sound hard to do 01:05:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:05:20 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 01:12:19 pkhuong: I updated the wider-fixnums tree. Does http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/commitdiff/2529e0ec2c662cbc594a5c70d4a15ad575a62418 look right to you? 01:12:31 (It compiled and passed the test suite.) 01:13:31 I guess we should insert tests to make sure the typechecking still works. 01:15:22 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-31-145.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 01:15:43 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:18:06 Mmm. Most of what I changed was the n-{postitive-,}fixnum-bits at read-time. 01:18:34 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: brb.] 01:18:58 I still have to put together a lightning talk presentation for monday. :-/ 01:19:34 Not sure about some of my whitespacing in the runtime. 01:21:40 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:23:07 I don't see anything critically wrong with that. 01:23:20 I propose to not worry about it. 01:23:50 ikki [~ikki@189.247.6.203] has joined #lisp 01:27:48 which of the clean up commits do you think should make it this month? 01:33:24 GC-lossage, certainly. 01:33:55 Possibly everything up to and including test-cases. 01:34:11 But not disentwingling or anything after it. 01:35:07 Although the lack of any test cases on the array-type stuff is sufficiently worrisome that I might want to hold it back. 01:35:19 It's also technically an incompatible change. 01:36:23 nyef: are you ready to give a presentation this monday? 01:36:39 Fare: No, but I'm hoping to be by mid-tomorrow. 01:36:44 oops, I announced myself. But that's OK. We can have three, or I can skip my turn. 01:36:58 actually, I'm not ready to give one 01:37:02 either 01:37:06 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:37:24 I at least have an idea of what I want to present, I just haven't worked up the slides or anything. 01:38:17 next time, I should be more careful about whom I promised to give a slot at the BLM. 01:40:25 wider fixnums are nice, but how much does that buy you, in practice? 01:40:30 who's living at the edge? 01:41:31 I'd be in better shape had I not got called out for something earlier this week for some work that did not pan out. 01:41:42 -!- holycow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:02 Wider fixnums would, arguably, be a bigger win on 32-bit platforms, were it not for the cost of implementing them on 32-bit platforms. 01:46:21 But as far as on 64-bit, it's a couple of extra bits you can use before you start paying bignum boxing costs. 01:46:28 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:29 probably makes C pointers cheaper to map to fixnums 01:47:32 For naive 64-bit machine emulation it cuts the amount of boxing even if you're still paying obscenely for the tag checking, etc. 01:48:34 It also allows us to at least open a dialogue on the costs and benefits of various fixnum representations. 01:50:28 fusss_ [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:51:20 Algid [~dash@c-71-237-204-74.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:56 *Fare* wonders if his stateful library should use interfaces like the pure library, or just normal object dispatch... 01:56:12 nyef: agreed on array types. 01:58:53 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:00:49 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 02:01:31 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has joined #lisp 02:01:34 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:51 -!- spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-203-135.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:02:31 nyef: easier interop with OCaml ;) 02:03:46 spacebat [~akhasha@ppp121-45-98-117.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:12 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.131] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:10:47 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 02:15:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 02:19:52 cognizant-cog [~chatzilla@24.143.26.144] has joined #lisp 02:20:05 Okay, I'm clearly not going to get anything more done tonight. I'll try to drag myself out of bed early enough to do some good tomorrow. 02:20:14 G'night all. 02:20:58 -!- davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:26:48 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:28:20 Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 02:33:06 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:33:07 trivia, in what language does whitespace cause an error after the last form? 02:33:32 PHP 02:35:53 and some of its security "engines" can be configured to allow a call stack that's N function deep: a sensible default at work being 5. 02:37:23 *fusss_* tries to figure out the Zend C API to CFFI his way out of hell; now that cl-soap is proven broken 02:38:55 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:39:14 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 02:45:31 Phoodus [foo@97-124-127-114.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:29 Hey, guys. I need a bit of help. I am new to both lisp and linux and am trying to set up emacs with slime. Most everything seems to be working fine, but I get an error after typing M-x slime. It says there was an error trying to load swank-backend.fasl. Before this it was complaining about not being able to create the folder this is contained is, so I did it myself. 02:46:58 I am guessing that it doesn't have permission to do what it wants, but I don't know how to give it permission. 02:49:45 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:50:39 cognizant-cog: a global SLIME (well, SWANK) install is mostly asking for trouble. 02:50:43 minion: tell cognizant-cog about clbuild. 02:50:44 cognizant-cog: direct your attention towards clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 02:51:36 cognizant-cog: that's a good way to take care of fetching stuff (along with dependencies) in a local folder. 02:52:17 pkhuong: why asking for trouble ? 02:54:02 fe[nl]ix: because of permission problems. You have to deal with asdf-b-l or debian's thing, and then if something breaks there's an injection from the fingers on one hand to the set of people who can help you. 02:54:46 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:54:47 (surjection even) 02:55:15 Okay. Thanks. I will take a look. 02:56:31 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:44 nyef: actually, the gc lossage patch is wrong. 02:57:15 Wait, should I undo anything I've already done? 02:58:39 async pr0n http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs/browse_thread/thread/8dab9f0a5ad753d5 02:58:40 Except for the CL implementation (and even that...) clbuild manages everything on its own. 02:59:58 wedgeV [~wedge@adsl-69-232-231-189.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:18 okay. So in general, when installing with lisp, should I use clbuild over asdf-install? 03:00:46 both, with priority to clbuild 03:00:56 got you 03:01:46 if a library is available via clbuild, use it, if not, try asdf-install, then manually: respecting directory conventions (site, site-systems, etc.) 03:02:23 you might also need to push paths into your asdf registry via .sbclrc or similar lisp configuration files. 03:03:08 on linux i just create symlinks: ln -s site/*/*.asd site-systems 03:03:09 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:39 on win32 I use the DIRECTORY function to loop over the directories, and push each to asdf:*central-registry* 03:04:21 I'm afraid I am not completely following. I am not familiar with symlinks (very new to linux). 03:04:23 once you have a few essential libraries that you need for almost every project, you can go ahead and dump an image/core with them 03:05:05 symlinks are symbolic links. files that can have any name but point to another. 03:05:50 Windows has "shortcuts", which must be named "Short cut to ..." 03:06:10 minion: memo for nyef: In , scav_lose is already fine. 03:06:11 Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 03:06:49 cognizant-cog: as long as you put libraries in the directory named "site", you can create links with this command: 03:07:06 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 03:07:22 ln -s /home/cognizant/sbcl/site/*/*.asd /home/cognizant/sbcl/site-systems 03:07:38 Ahh, understood. 03:07:52 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:08:14 Anyone know what ":excl" might be in: (:use :common-lisp :excl) 03:08:24 cognizant-cog: I can give you a shell account to my linux box which already had emacs, slime, several lisps and tons of libraries pre-installed, to get your feet wet 03:08:32 Quadrescence, allegro CL 03:08:39 I see. 03:08:52 Quadrescence: lisp extensions from Franz 03:09:23 What percent chance do you think the code will run with sbcl with :excl taken out? :) 03:09:38 (noting that this code was written in 1990) 03:09:40 That would be great. I really want to get up and running so I can work my way through Practical Common Lisp. 03:10:18 cognizant-cog: what user name do you want? cognizant? 03:10:32 Yeah, that is fine. 03:10:58 Thanks, btw. 03:11:02 no worries 03:12:30 Adlai: can you reach the box? linode-down-p 03:13:09 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@adsl-69-232-231-189.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 03:13:54 yes. nil 03:14:00 FUUUUUUUU 03:14:13 Shucks, POINTER-TO-POSITIVE-FIXNUM is undefined. 03:14:16 ? 03:15:19 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:15:25 nm, i am on the work vpn and it's heavily filtered 03:16:02 cognizant-cog: i just sent you a private message. got it? 03:16:51 Adlai: linode is down man 03:17:00 I was able to connect just now 03:17:10 hmm 03:17:28 yep, looking at it now 03:17:50 adlai_ [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 03:17:55 o/ 03:18:10 -!- adlai_ [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has left #lisp 03:18:49 i am now able to reach the box from another in the U.S., but 4 of my linodes are unreachable from australia, fwiw 03:21:17 marioxcc` [~user@200.92.16.252] has joined #lisp 03:22:05 -!- reb [~user@2620:0:1003:1000:216:e6ff:fed5:8b75] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:22:38 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:23:21 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24:33 Anyone interested in getting this to compile/run with SBCL? It's Richard Fateman's "MockMMA" (Mock Mathematica) program he wrote in 1990. It depends on allegro's hash table (see hcons1.lisp) and I'm sure there are generally other portability problems. http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/mma1.6.tar.gz 03:24:33 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.16.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:24:33 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:26:34 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:29 -!- cognizant-cog [~chatzilla@24.143.26.144] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100214235838]] 03:29:20 done 03:31:02 -!- l0stman [~l0stman@freedsl-2.blueline.mg] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:32:21 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 03:35:07 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@75-92-29-226.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:22 -!- djanatyn_ is now known as loyal-lackey 03:35:39 -!- loyal-lackey is now known as djanatyn_ 03:36:17 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:38:13 ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 03:45:04 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 03:46:10 -!- marioxcc` [~user@200.92.16.252] has left #lisp 03:47:41 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:50:19 btw, if I can get 1-3 volunteers for basic admin, i can get a dedicated server for shell accounts, all preconfigured for immediate lisp hacking 03:51:02 that should cut the slime setup questions, specially for people just trying to follow a book or a tutorial 03:51:12 fusss: volunteers for basic admin, you say? 03:51:53 echo "p_l ALL ALL:NOPASSWORD" >> /etc/sudoers 03:52:07 nyahahaha :) 03:52:18 interesting idea, IMHO 03:53:06 we could also put a kind of staging area there, so you could start by learning ANSI, then experiment with moving your code between implementations... 03:53:25 costs me nil, and a signup form in cl-who is about 10 minutes; after that it should run itself, pretty much. specially if i limit email to localhost 03:53:27 there was also this suggestion for web-based repl 03:53:55 *p_l* actually had a web-based repl once 03:54:24 since I connected a program written & extended in CL with such :) 03:54:57 ask around and come to me with a todo list :-) bigthingist at gmail 03:56:38 benny` [~benny@i577A8B6B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:57:58 ok 03:58:48 -!- benny [~benny@i577A856E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:01:05 there's a pastebin that can also run the code you paste 04:01:24 http://ideone.com/ 04:06:30 fusss pasted "basic lisp-shell help file v.001" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95340 04:13:25 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:16:09 Modius__ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:17:00 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:18:20 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:58 <_3b> fusss: better M-x lisp-mode than M-x slime-mode, might also suggest .lisp extension for lisp files 04:20:15 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:20:31 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:21:23 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-123-60.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:21:51 -!- Modius__ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:22:16 <_3b> fusss: also, M-C-x prints results in minibuffer, not repl 04:22:59 correcting the HOWTO is left as an exercise to the newbie 04:23:07 :-D 04:23:41 dammit, it's 3:30 Sunday; free pool table at the pub and happy hour til 7. I have no reason to be here. 04:23:43 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23:46 Gentlemen .. 04:23:47 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]] 04:30:26 Modius__ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:32:35 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 04:33:50 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:38:54 SumoJim [~James@186.38.101.97.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:17 I hate to even ask this, but I've been searching the net for hours to this simple question. When programming at the console and encountering an error... How do I choose the options? Such as abort? 04:45:48 I've tried :a, :R3, :abort, ABORT etc... 04:46:27 each debugger is different 04:46:42 I'm using CLISP on the windows command line. 04:46:44 maybe just typing the number of the restart you want 04:46:53 or :r, space and the number 04:47:44 It's not working... I'm really suprised that the solution isn't comming up with a simple google search. 04:49:00 Maybe I'll just have to try a different version. 04:49:59 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:51:37 <_3b> :r1 :R1 ABORT abort all work for me on clisp 2.44/win32 04:52:59 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:54:25 Ok, I think I got it, I'm just retarded! lol 04:54:32 Thanks 05:01:21 dtulig-b [~dtulig-b@cpe-66-68-93-116.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:11:21 -!- benny` is now known as benny 05:20:03 -!- SumoJim [~James@186.38.101.97.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:20:51 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440197.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 05:21:44 p_l: I thought about extremely restricted shells for SWANK servers, but I'm really not sure it's worth the trouble, compared to an EVAL server that's ajax-friendly. 05:22:48 skeeto [~user@c-98-204-92-42.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:45 so what is the reasoning behind the automatic capitalization of symbols in Common Lisp? What are the advantages to that? 05:25:29 skeeto: backward compatibility, most likely. 05:27:04 -!- jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:27:12 -!- p8m [~dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:27:29 pkhuong: hmm, how unfortunate then :-P 05:27:46 why? 05:28:49 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:50 I assume it was useful compatablity at the time, for people coming off of Maclisp or whereever, but has little use anymore 05:29:09 And how does it affect you, concretely? 05:29:57 I don't getting yelled at by a compiler all the time :-) 05:31:05 (setf *print-case* :downcase) 05:32:04 pkhuong: Depending on OS, getting a "restrictive enough" environment for SWANK shouldn't be that hard... 05:32:24 about the only thing you might miss in TOMOYO is syscall ACLs, I guess :-) 05:34:41 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:54 pkhuong: Ah, didn't know about that setting. Thanks! 05:35:24 p8m [~dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 05:35:34 or (setf (readtable-case *readtable*) :invert) 05:43:51 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:44:20 -!- p8m [~dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:46:10 -!- spacebat [~akhasha@ppp121-45-98-117.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:47:59 spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-235-243.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:38 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:34 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:59:51 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:14 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 06:00:34 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:02:45 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 06:03:09 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:16:04 -!- skeeto [~user@c-98-204-92-42.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:17:53 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:33 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:18:34 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:31 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:33:06 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:35:01 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:57 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:19 evening 06:47:17 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 06:51:04 evening. 06:52:40 (morning :early t) 06:52:43 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:38 Goodnight. ;-) 06:55:45 yukito [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 06:58:00 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:58:12 -!- yukito is now known as wvdschel 06:59:04 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-217-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:00:05 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:00:17 kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-2-144.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:01:52 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:05:51 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:07:23 splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:07:29 morning 07:07:47 Good morning 07:07:54 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 07:14:11 Hun [~hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:15:24 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19:39 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:27:14 Good morning! 07:29:06 -!- Hun [~hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:30 morning beach 07:32:39 I actually have a question for you 07:33:20 Sure, go ahead. 07:33:33 I came across http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/Lisp-projects/better-lisp.html, and was wondering what you meant by "sliding" and "fake-copying" GCs, since those didn't yield very relevant google results. 07:34:02 Adlai: The terminology is taken from Paul Wilson's papers. 07:34:13 it seems that sliding refers to GCs that compact objects together without changing their left-to-right ordering, and that fake copying involves remapping pages? 07:34:17 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:20 oh, ok. I'll see if I can find those. 07:34:25 madsy [~madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 07:34:30 Adlai: Sliding means that the objects preserve their order, and you slide them towards lower addresses. 07:34:48 that makes sense 07:35:40 Adlai: A copying collector is one that recognizes two sets, tospace and fromspace. 07:35:48 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-18-11.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:36:07 Adlai: In a copying collector, you make the distiniction between the two by location in memory, i.e. the address of the objects. 07:36:08 beach, right, I know what a copying collector is, but I only found one brief mention of "fake-copying" 07:36:33 Adlai: In a fake-copying, you don't move the objects, but you use some other means of telling whether the objects are in one space or the other. 07:37:07 Adlai: In Paul's implementation, they use doubly-linked circular lists, but you can also you other means such as bitmaps. 07:38:00 is the doubly-linked list version similar to Henry Baker's Treadmill? 07:38:01 Adlai: It has the advantage that you need less memory (no need to account for two spaces) and that objects don't move. 07:38:48 Adlai: I don't remember the details now. It might be. 07:39:20 I encountered the term "fake copying" in a paper by Boehm, where he briefly mentions that some sophisticated copying GCs might change the page mapping rather than moving objects 07:39:42 beach: that makes for quite interesting method for generational fake-copying collector... 07:40:06 (with more than just from- and to- space 07:40:08 ) 07:40:32 Adlai: That might be one way of identifying the sets, but again, I would have to read up on the details. 07:40:39 Adlai: usually such collector might require special support from OS 07:40:45 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 07:41:03 p_l, right, I think that's why he only mentions it briefly 07:41:04 linuxsable [~linuxsabl@63-145-253-38.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:21 the paper is at http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html 07:41:31 L4 would probably be nice platform due to it's tree-based virtual memory 07:41:36 *its 07:42:26 So are you guys going to write a new GC? 07:43:23 beach: at some point, yes. One of my future projects (as in "I have no bloody time to get them now") will probably require one 07:43:38 maybe someday... right now, though, I need to get to work 07:43:44 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:43:50 thank you for explaining this, beach :) 07:44:34 adlai_ [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 07:44:35 Adlai: Pleasure! 07:45:12 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: -> work] 07:45:34 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:52 beach: though I suspect I'll have a field day trying to track references between several different languages :D 07:47:29 Apple's GC supposedly tracks references over non-GC space 07:49:24 p_l: I see. 07:50:35 beach: I want to experiment with a system-wide GC 07:50:56 on a platform that isn't language-specific, like Lisp Machines 07:51:06 p_l: That sounds like a good thing, but very hard. 07:51:13 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:53:35 well, if I get to the point where I can worry about hi-level software instead of coding firmware in Forth, I'll be happy :P 07:54:21 p_l: You would either have to restrict your languages or use a conservative GC it seems. 07:54:58 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@90.73-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 07:55:14 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-2-144.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:55:14 dlowe [~dlowe@12.154.28.10] has joined #lisp 07:55:28 or make it selectable at runtime (i.e. for objects that *need* to stay in one place, there would be possibility of pinning them) 07:55:56 p_l: Or you can use a collector that doesn't move objects around. 07:55:59 though I was thinking of concentrating mostly on GC'd languages, like Lisp, Haskell, Erlang 07:56:50 beach: I was actually thinking of a hybrid case, depending on the data, with small nurseries and quick eviction 07:57:43 p_l: Sort of like my idea then. The nurseries are copying (in my case sliding, so that I can determine very precisely the age of an object), and the rest is fake-copying. 07:58:09 p8m [~dmm@208.70.147.65] has joined #lisp 07:59:07 beach: my idea also included *many* separate areas, so you could even have a nursery per block of code (with-new-nursery ...), as well as "specialized" areas 07:59:31 I see. 08:00:03 -!- b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:00:11 all this on top of a multiprocessor, ccNUMA RISC :) 08:00:20 i guess you have to be familiar with this? http://www.ravenbrook.com/project/mps/ 08:00:34 guaqua: I'm familiar, but license issues stop me 08:00:53 beach: it's a lofty project, but I think it might continue well into my PhD :) 08:00:54 okay 08:01:21 p_l: That sounds like an excellent PhD project indeed. 08:01:57 guaqua: I usually wait for a summary of what to expect before clicking on random links. 08:02:16 "The Memory Pool System is a very general, adaptable, flexible, reliable, and efficient memory management system." 08:02:55 beach: who knows, I might even do parts of it at your university? :) 08:03:22 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 08:03:35 p_l: That would be very good! 08:03:52 kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-2-144.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:06:03 well, it's still long time before I finish my current degree, but yes, Bordeaux is on my list for PhD :) 08:06:27 p_l: and you also probably know of this: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/staff/rej/gc.html (the homepage of richard jones, a garbage collection researcher(?) at university of kent) 08:07:01 guaqua: I think I've read his page once, and I suspect I've read his book last year 08:07:03 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikatc] 08:07:12 the bibliography at his homepage is pretty impressive 08:07:17 i've got his book aswell :) 08:12:28 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: 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248 seconds] 09:16:48 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:30 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.81.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:22:37 tcr: seems so, I mean a dir is a file, correct? on *nix any way 09:24:42 Axius [~hi@92.82.81.91] has joined #lisp 09:26:28 bytecolor: a dir is a dir. 09:27:05 mega1 [~quassel@3e44b299.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:27:07 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 09:27:56 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 09:32:08 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-101-84.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:34:37 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-130-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:35:49 *tcr* encounters a function in CL he has not known of before: load-logical-pathname-translations 09:37:31 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 09:43:54 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:44:04 roidrage 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from the cmdline, crashes from slime 12:11:48 Might be a threads issue 12:12:01 as in windows error box "The application failed to initialize properly" 12:12:12 CCL is supposed to fully support threads 12:12:20 though there was a note about SLIME not necessarily supporting 64-bit 12:12:37 lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 12:12:38 so I'm wondering if this combo is fixable or not worth it 12:13:10 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.22.242] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:13:22 Slime is architecture independent 12:13:30 hey, I'm trying to use cl-selenium (for the 1st time) wit the help of http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-selenium/tutorial.html 12:13:31 unicode [~user@95.214.22.242] has joined #lisp 12:13:43 I've setup the selenium-rc server as mentioned in the tutorial 12:13:51 tcr: well, it's the CCL wiki that has the warning about SLIME 12:13:55 not just some random idea 12:14:00 but when I get to asdf-install :selenium, I'm getting a 404 :( 12:14:09 neither did I find selenium in clbuild 12:14:25 can someone please give me some pointers where I might look further? 12:14:31 Phoodus: Sure, consult the ccl guys. There's #ccl, though the mailing list is more responsive in my experience 12:14:40 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@226.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:14:46 ok 12:14:50 thx 12:14:53 join #ccl 12:15:19 *spradnyesh* oops, typo in command 12:15:32 *Phoodus* tries other versions of SLIME first; newer ones didn't work for me before 12:16:28 Please post nonetheless, the issue should be addressed eventually 12:16:39 I'm using a very old SLIME 12:16:52 so if it's really SLIME's fault about puking on 64-bit, the wiki already says that 12:17:05 liek I said, i'm just curious if it's a dead end or not, if anybody tangled with it before, before I start trying things 12:18:19 Link? 12:18:34 spradnyesh: (asdf-install:install :cl-selenium) should give you that package 12:18:48 tcr: to what? 12:19:12 http://ccl.clozure.com/ccl-documentation.html#Using-CCL-with-GNU-Emacs-and-SLIME 12:19:40 2.6.7 12:20:15 -!- fgtech^ is now known as fgtech 12:20:23 I think that remark is old 12:21:14 Iirc, Adlai is on x86-64 and using ccl w/ slime each day 12:21:40 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 12:22:40 oh man, the most recent slime is terrible. The repl comes up in *inferior-lisp* with no highlighting at all 12:23:43 Put (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) into your .emacs 12:24:31 antifuchs: it fails; lemme give you the error message 12:24:57 tcr: well, at least it now complains about XEmacs not being supported 12:25:04 instead of just failing 12:25:14 it says, 'component "selenium" not found' 12:27:19 *spradnyesh* going to grab a quick bite, be back in a minute 12:28:04 -!- slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:28:23 *spradnyesh* back 12:28:51 *Phoodus* downloads emacs, wonders how difficult porting the init file will be from xemacs 12:29:34 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 12:30:21 Xemacs is a dead end, it's like cmucl :-) 12:30:22 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-196.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:49 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-196.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:34:09 boo 12:35:46 tcr, I use ccl and slime on linux x86-64, things are probably different on windows 12:36:02 *Adlai* hasn't yet tried porting the work project to CL... 12:38:19 (the project for work needs to run on windows, since it runs on my coworker's boxen) 12:40:44 Adlai: will you get slime working on windows when you do that, or just your build scripts? 12:41:14 Phoodus, I'll probably try and use the CCL IDE 12:41:40 ccl and slime/emacs work fine under windows 12:41:48 if that fails, I guess I'll set up emacs, slime, etc... :\ 12:42:43 asdf is a bit more tricky for Windows < Vista for the lack of symbolic links 12:43:46 Adlai: huh, I'm not seeing much mention of an IDE on their pages 12:44:17 ah, there 12:44:29 but only mac? 12:44:49 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440197.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:44:55 Younder: 64-bit? 12:45:02 the lack of a facillity like clbuild is the biggest minus. 12:45:05 it uses Cocoa, and Jeremy Jones has been working on getting it to play nice with Cocotron on Windows 12:45:10 ok 12:45:47 Phoodus, haven't checked that. LispWorks and ACL have explensive commercial versions. 12:46:25 Phoodus, yes, ccl offers a 64 bit windows version 12:46:33 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 12:46:35 right, but does it work under slime is the question 12:46:44 works fine from cmd.exe, crashes from slime 12:47:11 Phoodus: 64bit CCL supposedly works better than 32bit. I'm not sure, since I only tested 64bit (and it worked fine with SLIME from ca. July 2009) 12:47:29 -!- jsoft_ [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:39 Phoodus, can't see why not, you have to compile in swank. 12:48:04 p_l: I've got a few slime snapshots I think I can try 12:48:26 ccl crashes under both 2008-12 and 2010-02 versions of slime for me 12:49:07 (and how can I get rid of this stupid emacs taskbar? the option to hide it isn't being saved) 12:49:38 -!- jmbr__ [~jmbr@176.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:49:50 hmm, I don't have any other versions of slime saved 12:50:25 but under emacs it does seem to start up 12:50:45 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:39 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #lisp 12:54:02 Phoodus, how are you trying to hide it? 12:55:00 options -> show/hide 12:55:24 as well as '(toolbar-visible-p nil) from my xemacs file, shoved in custom-set-variables 12:55:38 but that doesn't seem to do anything either 12:55:49 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:01 From the menu, it hides the toolbar, but on next startup it's back again, even after saving options 12:56:29 try s/toolbar-visible-p/tool-bar-mode/ 12:56:46 thank you! 12:56:55 I was looking around for the variables, couldn't find that one 12:57:24 Phoodus: xemacs? 12:57:30 trying emacs 12:57:53 Phoodus, M-x customize-apropos tool-bar 12:58:01 so, ccl64 seems to be twice as slow as sbcl32 on a quick benchmark 12:58:12 but hey, if it gives us threads on windows, that's great 12:58:32 <_3b> well, it is faster on a different quick benchmark, aren't benchmarks fun? :) 12:58:38 heh, yep 12:58:49 but our benchmark is our actual program in development 12:58:55 so that's what counts for us 12:58:59 Phoodus: with two processors and threads, you could break even =p 12:59:06 heh 12:59:19 the deployment system is single-core amazon cloud instance though 12:59:42 but that's linux, so head-in-the-sand coders... erm, I mean it should find a more amicable environment there ;) 13:00:26 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:00:38 developing on windows and deploying on linux is mildly insane, although not as much as if you were doing the opposite 13:01:20 linux isn't the only deployment target, though it's our first commercial deployment 13:02:48 well, best of luck. here's hoping you don't get fed up and switch to C++. 13:02:56 (or worse) 13:03:10 we use C++ where appropriat 13:03:20 though this project only includes lisp, erlang, java, and prolog ;) 13:04:13 (and 2 custom compilers) 13:04:22 here's hoping you aren't forced to change your definition of "appropriate", then. :) 13:08:17 Phoodus: in the interest of keeping it real, you could invest in giving each developer a linux vm to develop in 13:08:36 single-core, as close in specs to the deployment target as possible 13:09:08 on the other hand, we don't want to be locked into this single deployment target 13:09:22 our 2nd customer is going to want a local installation, I don't know what the nature of it is yet 13:09:32 sure - once you get another one, give each developer a vm with the appropriate specs 13:09:43 that would be appropriate for staging 13:09:58 virtual machines are excellent development tools. keep you grounded (: 13:10:01 but development can and should be able to take place wherever 13:10:27 I know; I've spent a lot of money on VMWare licenses before most of it became free :-P 13:10:48 also, give your developers laptops with vmware on them (: 13:11:20 the free vmware player doesn't have snapshots, cursed thing 13:11:26 already there 13:12:18 well, there you go: no more development on windows... unless you have to 13:13:05 so you're suggesting that while on a windows box, while targeting windows, do all development in a linux vm? :) 13:13:27 we may differ, but I'd also call that mildly insane ;) 13:14:42 no, in a windows vm (: 13:14:52 heh 13:15:19 I think VMs are great for testing and staging in clean-room, well-known environments 13:15:20 you might have missed the part where I said "as close to the deployment target as possible" (: 13:15:43 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.163.216.6] has joined #lisp 13:15:48 but the system really needs to be resilient to its environment, even during development runs 13:16:05 it's pretty self-defeating to require a clean room just to run cleanly 13:19:32 hmm, ccl's disassembly doesn't seem to be real x86 13:20:16 oh wait, this is x64, which I'm not really familiar with :-P 13:20:24 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:22:41 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 13:23:44 not that I like its syntax, but now I wonder if CCL has an assembler to go with that disassembler 13:24:12 hefner, yep 13:24:53 Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 13:25:20 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.163.216.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:26:28 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.163.216.6] has joined #lisp 13:29:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:32:35 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:28 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 13:41:37 well from past experienece (Opera) I would say if you want to develop on multiple targets you really want to develop all platforms in paralell. 13:41:53 (Opera doesn't) 13:42:43 Otherwise the other platforms keep playing cachup, implementations tend to be slow and buggy. 13:44:43 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.237] has joined #lisp 13:45:25 hey hefner. I think I'll get ecl+slime in a usable state by the end of the week 13:46:07 At the moment, I'm working on making M-. jump into the C-source 13:46:27 (it's TAGS based, so you'll be able to M-. further once in a .c file) 13:47:37 tcr: Does that work interactivly, or only on 'etag'ed files? 13:48:18 there'll be a make TAGS which is run when ecl is built 13:48:24 hefner: CCL afaik has a really easy to use assembler 13:49:00 Presumably, Emacs contains stuff so updating a TAGS file is convenient 13:49:05 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:25 the real reason I didn't get into CCL was because I thought it was "Corman Common Lisp" which is afaik is pretty dead 13:50:52 wasn't until the last few months I realized that clozure was something different :-P 13:51:47 tcr: the only thing I have found is using etags from the comand line. (But I haven't checked lately) 13:52:09 ikki [~ikki@189.247.6.203] has joined #lisp 13:52:20 Presumably, there's a way to invoke make 13:52:32 tcr: yes 13:53:42 Phoodus: Corman seems not entirely dead, though they haven't updated lately... 13:55:11 yeah, I'm reading their page again; windows-only is a killer 13:55:35 it's a fairly complete implementation, after all 13:55:40 so anything saying "CCL" was "oh well, checked tha out, not applicable" ;) 13:55:52 p_l: not entirely, but the CL compatabillity is unreliable. I find things not already ported to Corman tend to break. 13:56:12 Phoodus: the killer for me is lack unicode support in Corman. Otherwise, it would be my favourite implementation on windows, at least for some time 13:56:28 yeah, that'd be a problem for us, too 13:57:00 Younder: interesting, haven't checked that too far. Still, it's an interesting implementation, and for a commercial one, it has the nicest payment plan :D 13:58:14 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:58:35 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 13:58:37 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:59:17 I wonder if it's possible to implement an ATTACH-GDB restart to ECL 13:59:42 If I fork()+exec(), will the child process have access to the parent's stdin/stdout? 14:01:00 -!- perdix [~perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Quit: A cow. A trampoline. Together they fight crime!] 14:01:40 NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-57-82-249-16-119.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:27 dlowe [~dlowe@12.154.28.10] has joined #lisp 14:02:49 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-31-145.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06:45 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has left #lisp 14:07:39 tcr: the exec() man page is not stellarly clear on this point, but I think descriptors 0,1 and 2 are marked 14:07:57 ... as FD_CLOEXEC upon creation 14:08:04 or something like that 14:08:10 tcr: the parent process would have to duplicate stdin/stdout/stderr, bind them to child process and close them in parent 14:08:41 sharing the same i/o handle is .. problematic 14:08:46 unless you un-mark them after fork and before exec, but even then you probably cannot rely on them being shared 14:09:15 cmm-: you use dup/dup2 calls for that 14:09:22 I don't want to use them in parallel, I'd like to attach gdb, and have "ecl" be gone until user quits from gdb 14:09:40 p_l: yeah 14:09:56 Any progress on cl-gtk? This is one of the most exciting new windows interfaces I have seen for a while, but it needed a more complete function binding. 14:10:33 tcr: execve() preserves stdin/stdout/stderr, the only problem is fork() 14:11:37 cl-gtk2 14:12:54 apparently: 50 files changed, 1580 insertions(+), 1270 deletions(-) 14:13:18 what was the other new binding to GTK2? 14:13:50 I recall two new bindings that used a similar method (a GObject to CLOS mapping, iirc), one of them being cl-gtk2 and I don't remember the other one... 14:14:21 p_l, No it is a different interface: http://www.cliki.net/cl-gtk2 14:14:23 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-123-60.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:57 -!- smanek [~smanek@63.74.178.2] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:17:25 Younder: yeah, that's one of them, I might have the names wrong :) 14:17:28 carlocci [~nes@93.37.199.160] has joined #lisp 14:18:44 Fuck I modified a Makefile, not a Makefile.in and now my changes are gone 14:19:09 That's... frustrating 14:19:17 *tcr* needs a break 14:21:30 ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:06 -!- spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-235-243.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:35:08 spacebat [~akhasha@ppp118-210-212-131.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:15 borism [~boris@237.80.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 14:40:32 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.102.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:53 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.102.179] has joined #lisp 14:43:16 pix4 [~pixel@copei.de] has joined #lisp 14:44:34 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:45:43 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:50:42 -!- kenpp [~kenpp@188-222-117-86.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:51:59 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:56 prxq [~mommer@g227021050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:53:02 hi 14:53:08 jewel [~jewel@41.18.239.3] has joined #lisp 14:57:33 dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has joined #lisp 14:58:32 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.18.239.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:58:49 -!- bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:01:08 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:11 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:49 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.102.179] has left #lisp 15:07:00 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.163.216.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:08:16 marioxcc [~user@200.92.161.194] has joined #lisp 15:08:39 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has left #lisp 15:09:23 -!- Guest63686 is now known as pkhuong 15:10:02 prxq: hi 15:11:15 -!- pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@118.35-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:11:42 hi LiamH 15:11:44 -!- madsy [~madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:12:16 prxq: In Germany? 15:12:34 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: heading home] 15:12:59 LiamH: yep 15:13:27 in the lovely city of Heidelberg :-) 15:13:45 sounds nice 15:13:50 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-2-106.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:14:08 it is. 15:14:25 i like it around here. Weather could be better right now. 15:15:03 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1177684015.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:15:17 are you on a postdoc or academic appointment? 15:15:35 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1177684015.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 15:16:08 bigjust [~jcaratzas@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:34 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@12.154.28.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:16:44 postdoc, sort of. 15:16:59 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:17:17 i have a temporary research position. 15:20:40 What does that mean? 15:20:49 limited contract? 15:21:13 tcr: yes 15:22:14 jewel [~jewel@dsl-242-133-99.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:23:16 So how will a new contract be evaluated? 15:26:11 _deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 15:26:22 rcv [~rcv@221.Red-83-36-88.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:12 it will not, because the funds are tied to a project. I'll need a new project/position. 15:28:55 it is not nearly as bad as it may sound :-) 15:32:18 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 15:33:02 hello, I always get "The assertion (EQ SB-THREAD::ME (SB-THREAD::MUTEX-%OWNER SB-THREAD:MUTEX)) failed." error when I do: "(sb-thread:condition-wait +jobs-wait-queue+ +jobs-worker-mutex+)" what may be the problem? 15:33:52 "when calling condition-wait, you must hold the mutex." ahh, sorry probably that is the problem, I don't hold the mutex 15:34:44 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #lisp 15:35:30 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Client Quit] 15:35:32 ignotus: defconstant for mutexes and condvars isn't a good idea. 15:35:52 pkhuong: thanks:) 15:38:23 or for anything else, for that matter 15:39:00 boooo 15:39:14 (defconstant +seconds-per-minute+ 60) seems OK to me 15:39:19 bad people picking on poor defconstant 15:42:01 <_8david> DEFCONSTANT is to DEFVAR what DEFINE-COMPILER-MACRO and inlining are to DEFUN. 15:42:07 <_8david> IOW, defconstant's purpose is for micro-optimization. 15:42:18 <_8david> Perhaps in the past people didn't think that way, because they were optimizing things like mad anyway. These days, if defconstant matters, you're either working on an inner loop or you're called QPX and are writing C in lisp because your entire program is an inner loop. 15:42:56 :D 15:44:55 easyE [9lIBLoXsaF@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:01 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:26 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:47:17 hraban_ [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 15:48:10 -!- b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:48:18 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:48:19 -!- hraban_ is now known as b4|hraban 15:48:20 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 15:51:25 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1cb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:53:32 dlowe [~dlowe@12.154.28.10] has joined #lisp 15:55:35 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:08 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:25 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:14 jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:02 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:02:03 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.102.179] has joined #lisp 16:03:15 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:03:41 ignotus: Yeah, likewise for condition-notify/condition-broadcast. Unfortunately, their docstrings do not tell. When I remember, I'll adapt the docstrings. 16:04:02 imho they should also have such an assertion 16:05:15 tcr: thanks 16:08:11 tcr: for notify/broadcast, it's not a strict requirement, just a correctness issue 16:08:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:10:10 Hm? I think it's a requirement by POSIX? 16:10:51 The pthread_cond_broadcast() or pthread_cond_signal() functions may be called by a thread whether or not it currently owns the mutex that threads calling pthread_cond_wait() or pthread_cond_timedwait() have associated with the condition variable during their waits; however, if predictable scheduling behavior is required, then that mutex shall be locked by the thread calling pthread_cond_broadcast() or pthread_cond_signal(). 16:11:07 May or may not. So you're right 16:12:16 posix pthread_cond_broadcast 16:12:17 http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xsh/pthread_cond_broadcast.html 16:12:26 Hooray for specbot 16:12:29 Athas` [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:14:25 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:18:33 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.102.179] has left #lisp 16:18:38 posix sem_post 16:18:38 http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xsh/sem_post.html 16:19:08 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.102.179] has joined #lisp 16:22:23 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 16:24:00 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:26:03 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:28:58 airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:57 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-20-82-64-35-82.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:24 hi, HOw coud I list all the symbol in a package? 16:31:53 (loop for symbol being each symbol in *package* collect symbol) 16:31:54 do-all-symbols ? 16:32:33 (apropos-list "" package) 16:32:39 ah, almost 16:32:53 mathk: (remove-duplicates (loop for sym being each symbol in package collect symbol)) 16:33:16 so you can do it with a dolist? 16:33:28 not really 16:34:33 to use DOLIST, you need to have a list ahead of time 16:36:21 -!- dtulig-b [~dtulig-b@cpe-66-68-93-116.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:21 I don't really get the loop stuff 16:38:01 There is not much to "get". You just learn how to use it. 16:38:13 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:38:32 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 16:40:31 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:41:45 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:20 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-033-141.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:43:01 but there the llop is not quite consitent since you use the same thing to "loop" on list 16:43:26 mathk: ? 16:44:07 (loop forelement in list) 16:44:15 clhs loop 16:44:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 16:44:37 and tehn you have ( loop for symbol in *package*) 16:44:54 mathk: whatever. 16:45:19 mathk, it's worth glancing at that, and maybe reading http://l1sp.org/pcl/loop and, when you're ready, http://l1sp.org/cl/6.1 16:45:56 (loop for x ..) just means that x is a local variable getting stepped by the loop machinery 16:46:21 Adlai: I think he was confused by the "in" keyword. 16:46:29 since looping over arrays needs "across" 16:46:33 the clauses right after for x, such as in list or across vector, determine what type of iteration there will be 16:46:52 Adlai: or "being each"? 16:47:12 yeah, and = foo then bar 16:47:25 ye but I want to know how to get all the symbol in a package and the loop stuff does not help to understand how you do it 16:47:42 a part from learning by heart the loop 16:47:46 mathk: loop is one of a couple of ways to do it. What is there to understand? 16:47:47 clhs with-package-iterator 16:47:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_pkg_.htm 16:47:50 you asked for it ^^ 16:47:57 giggle 16:48:39 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@12.154.28.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:48:58 (remove-duplicates (let ((symbols ())) (do-symbols (s *package*) (push s symbols)))) if you're loop-phobic? 16:49:19 sykopomp: pushnew, at least. 16:49:48 pkhuong: I imagine actually returning the symbols list would help, too :D 16:51:09 thi the "be specific priniciple" 16:51:21 loop is not very specific 16:51:37 mathk: learn how to type. Please. 16:51:49 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 16:52:27 pkhuong: YOU A 16:53:22 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:54:03 Is there a standard compliant way to efficiently in both space&time to clear a bit-vector to either all zeros or all ones, rather than iterating over (setf (bit vec idx) init-bit) ? 16:54:12 pkhuong: english is not my mother tong language so be indulgent please 16:54:44 mathk: Try M-x flyspell. 16:54:50 clhs fill 16:54:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fill.htm 16:54:53 jsfb, maybe that ^^ 16:55:02 *jsfb* checks link 16:55:22 jsfb: fill is fast 16:55:28 yeah, that looks good 16:56:00 it should have a special case for bit-vectors and just optimize full word inits 16:56:00 mathk, this is the stripped-down loop-less version... http://ideone.com/r9Ll586B 16:56:13 LOOP is very handy in cases like this one 16:56:22 anyway, that's better than iterating in any case 16:56:24 or one of the logic operations with itself (e.g. bit-xor or bit-eqv) if fill isn't as fast. 16:56:24 thanks 16:57:31 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 16:59:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.6.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:03 nunb [~nundan@112.110.40.227] has joined #lisp 17:00:06 Alabaman [~badgerfac@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:18 jsfb: SBCL doesn't seem to have any special case for bit-vectors 17:00:35 I'm figuring that out with the profiler :( 17:00:36 Dodek: really? 17:00:44 I don't have sbcl source installed 17:00:52 pkhuong: judging by source code, yes 17:00:57 i may be mistaken though 17:01:03 Dodek: you would be. Try M-. 17:01:04 Dodek, how are you looking in the source? 17:01:16 Adlai: what do you mean? 17:01:26 i just browse sbcl source tarball 17:01:32 you're probably missing the various compiler transforms that SBCL uses, which will show up if you use M-. as pkhuong suggested 17:01:39 ikki [~ikki@189.247.8.222] has joined #lisp 17:01:50 Dodek: that's a good way to learn that CONS is defined as call to CONS. 17:02:14 sbcl-1.0.33/src/code/seq.lisp 17:02:39 do you have a slime installation handy? really, try M-. 17:02:58 oh 17:03:03 you're right, there it is 17:03:04 M-, is awesomely handy 17:03:19 there are SIX different transforms for fill 17:03:33 one of which is applicable for simple bit vectors 17:03:35 If you're going to greb your way around, we usually try to make sure you can grep for '(def.* fill', for instance, to find all the FILL-related definitions. 17:03:52 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:47 maybe it's ok, it is calling SB-IMPL::OPTIMIZED-DATA-VECTOR-SET which sounds hopeful 17:05:05 how do the transforms work? 17:05:05 from sb-kernel:vector-fill* 17:05:09 no. You have to declare the type of the bit vectors to get word-at-a-time operations. 17:05:26 And it only works on simple-bit-vectors (i.e. (simple-array bit 1)). 17:05:42 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.102.179] has left #lisp 17:06:01 Dodek: iterated bottom-up type-directed rewriting. 17:06:26 CL's use of simple for different things is annoying. They should have called simple-vector, unspecialized-vectors 17:06:57 tcr: CLtL3. 17:07:06 Are you kidding? 17:07:41 pkhuong: they look like some kind of type-specialized macros 17:08:06 tcr: No, why? 17:08:21 Dodek, pretty much, although they're more like compiler macros 17:08:21 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:40 madsy [~madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 17:08:45 Even if you only propose to (deftype cltl3:unspecialized-vector (...) `(simple-vector ...)), just for that to work, you'd have to do quite some bootstrap work 17:08:53 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:09:32 since we're already talking about sbcl 17:09:58 Hm maybe not, seems like simple-vector is only a type not a system class 17:10:04 is there any work going on on creating standalone binaries with it that aren't 50MB monsters? 17:10:19 Dodek: compressed executables. 17:10:24 Yes. It's called clisp. 17:10:37 Otherwise, I don't think it's a priority for anyone. 17:11:11 Given that all other implementations have smaller footprints, if that's a problem for you you really have the choice... 17:11:27 Or you could fork 80 EUR for a 1.5 TB HD... 17:11:29 well, in my opinion it's always good to reduce size and memory foorprint 17:11:39 provided it does not reduce functionality 17:11:53 Dodek: yes, but given the price of a 1.5 TB HD, you shouldn't spend more than half an hour on it. 17:12:15 there's also memory usage 17:12:18 Dodek: why? the effort of reducing size also costs resources. 17:12:18 Well, remains 25 minutes, since you already spent 5 here... 17:13:55 prxq: that's true. however i still believe that tens of megabytes is too much 17:14:12 for simple programs 17:14:44 Dodek: You can compress the executable down to ~8mb according to p_l 17:15:12 Dodek: for a hello world type of thing it is truly gross, you mean? :-) 17:15:16 Dodek: if you care so much, you can put some effort into reducing the footprint 17:15:16 and you can load several simple programs in a single image, there's a recent blog entry about that. 17:15:41 there should be a way of puting the runtime in some kind of so, so that the executable is just a fasl+trampoline 17:16:15 prxq: if you put your simple programs in a single executable image and +t it, they you get the same result. 17:16:36 pjb: what is +t? 17:16:38 +t? 17:16:41 sticky 17:16:50 the sticky bit on the executable file. 17:16:53 tcr: none the wiser 17:17:02 pjb: what for? 17:17:27 It's to inform the kernel that it's worthwhile keeping that executable in memory, even when it exits. 17:17:38 So that next time you launch it it is already loaded. 17:18:08 ah, no. not the same result. 17:19:00 I mean something more, er, artistic. You move the 80 megs runtime to a .so, and are left with a lean small 'executable'. Looks a lot better, but still works the same way. 17:19:47 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 17:19:54 pjb: linux ignores it 17:19:59 i mean, nobody looks at /usr/lib 17:20:16 it is already full of bloat anyway 17:21:38 prxq: but does it really NEED 80MB of runtime? 17:21:49 i mean, take ECL 17:22:05 -!- adeht` is now known as adeht 17:22:18 Dodek: and add GCC 17:22:41 stassats: i'm sure it's still less than 20MB 17:22:50 What 80 MB runtime? 17:23:08 -!- jewel [~jewel@dsl-242-133-99.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:23:10 gcc takes 22860K on my system 17:23:20 you mean the source of a gcc or what? 17:23:30 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:24:07 without sources, obviously 17:24:48 Dodek, SBCL's runtime is GCC plus several libraries 17:25:03 s/is/is like/ 17:26:41 one of these libraries is the ANSI CL standard library, which has several hundred functions and macros. Another one is the CLOS MOP, which is a hefty bit of code. 17:28:22 Adlai: hm 17:29:19 let's say i don't need eval, compile and similar functions in my CL application 17:29:37 now, if you don't want the CLOS MOP and the entire compiler statically linked into your Hello World, that's fine, but the vast majority of SBCL apps are much more than (write-line "hello world") 17:29:40 thus, i can strip CL interpreter from an executable, as well as the functions i don't use 17:29:57 that's called tree shaking 17:30:21 how much would the executable use then? 17:30:45 sbcl doesn't have a tree shaker 17:31:10 Dodek: quite a lot still. Anything that involves CLOS depends on the compiler which depends on a boat load of internals. 17:31:16 Dodek: It's not so simple. For example, CLOS typically needs COMPILE or EVAL 17:31:23 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:31:48 tcr: what for, exactly? 17:32:01 Dodek: Run-time compilation 17:32:07 Dodek, method dispatch needs to be compiled on the fly 17:32:20 Adlai: more like method combinations. 17:32:20 that's not actually true 17:32:34 oh, i don't understand what you mean 17:32:35 sorry 17:32:44 it is mostly compiled on the fly, but it doesn't have to be 17:32:48 you can also just bundle sbcl as-is (or not) and use --script or --load.. 17:32:59 well, in PCL, it is compiled the first few times and then cached 17:33:00 i read AMOP and as far as i remember, they did not use eval or compile 17:33:03 there are (probably stale) hooks to say "please precompile dispatches based on existing gfs" 17:33:08 Dodek, read it again :) 17:33:36 Dodek: If you want small executable, use another implementation. 17:33:48 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:33:57 tcr: that's what i usually do 17:34:25 if i want small executables that is 17:36:22 sbcl can't create small executables - what exactly is missing but needed in order to do that? 17:36:29 stassats mentioned "tree shaker" 17:36:38 stassats: sure, linux ignores it, because it has a better cache system. In effect, on linux +t is on all executable. 17:37:55 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.129.14] has joined #lisp 17:38:24 Dodek: a shipload of work, probably some fundamental redesign, and a massive amount of motivation 17:38:45 Dodek: ECL with full compiler takes on my system around 10+36+48+13=107 MB 17:38:48 Dodek: it is just not worth it for most people. 17:38:58 I don't think it's that much work 17:39:21 p_l: what do these numbers stand for? 17:39:21 take jsnell's tree shaker, maintain it 17:39:22 you can remove 36MB from that as common between SBCL and ECL, and reach similar sizes 17:39:36 Dodek: ECL+GLIBC+GCC+Binutils 17:39:54 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:40:08 GCC runtime is 48MB? 17:40:21 hm 17:40:22 Dodek: compiler. GCC runtime is nearly non-existant 17:40:38 (because on Unices, C runtime is part of the system) 17:40:52 so if i removed support for run-time compilation 17:41:02 it would be only 10+36 MB? 17:41:14 p_l: not really. You can boot a unix kernel with all userspace programs written in lisp, where you don't need any C runtime. 17:41:23 "deployment-only" ECL is ~10MB, because you're going to have libc anyway 17:41:31 The C runtime is not an essential part of the system. 17:41:32 Dodek: that's the catch. If you remove support for run-time compilation, then where's the fun? :-) 17:41:40 :) 17:41:43 pjb: would that be a "unix"? 17:41:44 pjb: it's not unix then - POSIX requires presence of the C runtime 17:42:26 Well, my emacs on linux is unix: it boots the kernel, and execute /bin/init :-) 17:42:55 *p_l* recalls fun story of someone removing C, FORTRAN and some other runtimes from a VMS installation xD 17:43:03 (However, I had to put a C runtime for mount, for lack of FFI in emacs; the situation would be cleaner with a pure lisp lisp implementation. 17:43:37 i'll be going now 17:43:41 see you guys 17:44:26 -!- borism [~boris@237.80.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:44:45 also, Unix is nearly irreversibly tethered to C runtime... 17:45:47 p_l: well, syscalls are not even implementable in standard C... 17:46:08 saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:12 tcr: CLOS doesn't necessarily need full COMPILE/EVAL 17:46:13 p_l: it would be easier to implement the in Lisp (with a LAP) than in C. 17:46:21 s/the/them/ 17:46:28 manuel___ [~manuel@pD9E6FAA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:41 tcr: it could use a specialized mini-compiler 17:46:50 I don't think it can 17:46:51 pjb: however, the API is not only done with syscalls, though it's definitely possible to avoid using C runtime (and some runtimes actually did that) 17:47:03 you can write arbitrary code in long-form method combinations 17:47:19 p_l: another data item is that there have been implementations of unix like kernels in other languages, such as Pascal, with the whole user space implemented in Pascal rather than C> 17:47:24 pjb: Unix was designed with the idea of -> C compilers 17:47:24 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6676e1-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:47:53 pjb: those didn't count as Unix systems, afaik, though they were very similar 17:47:58 -!- NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-57-82-249-16-119.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:47:59 p_l: the question is "what is a unix system?", really. 17:48:27 Krystof: are there other cases where the full compiler is needed ? 17:48:32 using some specific calling conventions? 17:48:42 pjb: which is nicely written as "everything that passes SUS test completely", which gives some weird results :P 17:49:47 because, iirc, Windows passes Unix95 or Unix98, MVS passes full SUS, VMS also passes similarly to Windows, maybe better 17:50:16 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-24-215-68.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:51:41 fe[nl]ix: I think that's the only case in no-metaclass-usage no-defining-form-calling CLOS 17:52:16 if you allow me metaobjects I can introduce you to make-method-lambda 17:52:19 -!- manuel___ [~manuel@pD9E6FAA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 17:52:33 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6676e1-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 17:53:54 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:54:16 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-101-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:16 <_deepfire> Now, I wonder how much does ECL sacrifice in terms of performance, when there's no CMP available on the system and make-method-lambda is involved. 17:54:55 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:55:10 <_deepfire> I doubt its implementation is using CMP to do MOP, at all.. 17:55:34 Adlai [~adlai@77.126.201.25] has joined #lisp 17:55:44 -!- splittist [~joe@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: sneezing] 17:56:14 -!- Adlai [~adlai@77.126.201.25] has quit [Changing host] 17:56:14 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:57:21 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-101-84.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:10 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:10 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:03:14 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.129.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:33 anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.129.14] has joined #lisp 18:05:23 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-217-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:53 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 18:08:43 rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.235.192] has joined #lisp 18:10:19 NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-24-82-64-176-178.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:05 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-2-106.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:17:10 -!- nunb [~nundan@112.110.40.227] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:19:15 Yay! M-. jumping into ECL's c source works 18:19:49 <_8david> why is everyone hacking ECL these days? 18:20:13 <_8david> (everyone being hefner on twitter, and now tcr on #lisp) 18:20:15 cause of handy's 18:21:12 _8david: I noticed that hefner's doing cool things with ECL, and also noticed that its swank backend is totally unusable. So I thought I'd make it pleasant for him doing more cool stuff. 18:22:29 Next thing on my todo list is to make juanjo (maintainer of ecl) use slime. :-) He'll come to munich in April. 18:25:26 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:26:37 tcr: what does he use?? 18:27:15 prxq: command line 18:27:29 ow 18:30:21 and what editor? 18:30:33 ed, probably ;) 18:31:18 ed is awesome 18:31:40 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:57 stassats: IIRC he uses emacs 18:33:09 dtulig-b [~dtulig-b@cpe-66-68-93-116.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:28 hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:33:35 fiveop [~fiveop@g229170084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:45 <[df]> how do you provide a type declaration for a LOOP variable? 18:34:50 well, if he just uses inferior-lisp mode, then it's ok. Not as comfortable as slime, but still quite usable. 18:34:54 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1177684015.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:35:21 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1177684015.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 18:35:31 [df]: (loop for foo of-type bar across array ...) 18:35:49 Adlai` [~adlai@93-172-241-2.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:36:02 with some types it's (loop for fixnum ...) 18:36:05 clhs loop 18:36:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 18:36:27 hi 18:36:34 -!- Adlai` [~adlai@93-172-241-2.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Changing host] 18:36:34 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:36:37 *Fare* tries to learn how to use stefil 18:36:40 and last time I checked, ECL worked well with inferior-lisp mode 18:36:41 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:36:43 <[df]> thanks guys 18:36:49 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 18:38:58 -!- NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-24-82-64-176-178.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:44:09 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:18 -!- Alabaman [~badgerfac@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:44:47 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:44 rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:32 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 18:51:12 NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-199-126.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:17 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 18:53:21 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.22.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:35 unicode [~user@95.214.31.92] has joined #lisp 18:58:29 frontiers [~frontiers@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:44 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.235.192] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 19:02:14 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:17 Hello all. 19:02:18 nyef, memo from pkhuong: In , scav_lose is already fine. 19:03:19 I see that by getting a late start I missed yet another discussion of the deployment story. 19:04:39 ... right, at this point I think that deferring -all- of this until early 1.0.36 would be a good idea. 19:04:43 deployment story? 19:05:02 Fare: tree shakers, smaller executables, shared libraries for the runtime, etc. 19:06:03 oisin [~oisin@S0106000c76cb70ed.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:11 ...and whether you can or would want to get rid of the compiler 19:07:36 prxq, or move it to a separate process 19:07:38 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.31.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:07:44 "please compile this into me" 19:08:01 (reminds me of elk) 19:08:20 (or ECL?) 19:08:38 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE000ae6922d9c-CM001cea397dac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 19:08:58 I'm trying to program a function that takes in L as a list of the form eg. (x 3 4 7); X as an atom that represents the atom to be replaced eg. x; and Y as an atom that will replace X eg. t. So that the final result is (t 3 4 7). This is my code but it does not work in the conditional, and I'm unsure as to why. Any help is appreciated. 19:09:01 oisin pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/95369 19:09:28 subst ? 19:09:45 I cannot use substitute. 19:09:49 unicode [~user@95.214.50.89] has joined #lisp 19:10:04 c|mell [~cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust193.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:21 homework? 19:10:42 it's part of a bigger project 19:10:43 oisin: time to read HtDP 19:10:52 Sorry? 19:11:18 minion: htdp? 19:11:18 htdp: How To Design Programs, an online textbook in introductory CS using PLT Scheme, available at http://www.htdp.org/ 19:11:48 oisin: what if L is an atom, just not nil? 19:12:17 oisin: are you considering your CONS as building lists or trees? 19:12:24 oisin: your program seems confused about that 19:12:56 Fare: lists..I think I see what you are talking about though, in the second condition. 19:12:58 -!- rcv [~rcv@221.Red-83-36-88.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:13:06 3rd* 19:13:14 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:13:33 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-101-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:57 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:25 rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.235.192] has joined #lisp 19:18:09 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:25:49 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:25:54 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-217-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:27:59 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:28:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 19:28:23 pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@118.35-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:29:24 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:55 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 19:31:25 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:42 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@122.162.129.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:31:55 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:32:05 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-217-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:30 -!- sytse [sytse@speedy.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:38:22 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-217-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Gotta get organized.] 19:40:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:40:41 -!- dtulig-b [~dtulig-b@cpe-66-68-93-116.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:41:03 file naming convention: tree.lisp or trees.lisp ? 19:41:47 list.lisp or lists.lisp ? 19:42:04 same with package and system naming. you just never know! 19:42:06 alexandria suggests plural 19:42:24 dtulig-b [~dtulig-b@cpe-66-68-93-116.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:39 any second opinion? 19:43:02 tree-operations.lisp? 19:43:20 sbcl/src/code/ has a mix of singular and plural 19:43:26 forest.lisp! 19:43:47 gah! 19:44:01 I suspect noone really cares about consistency in this particular matter 19:44:40 borism [~boris@213-35-235-6-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 19:46:08 Fare, you can't have consistency in that because sometimes the singular or the plural suggests something completely different than what you want 19:46:41 meh 19:47:09 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:21 let's say if I defclass foo, it's foo.lisp, but if I use foos from a different system/file/package that defines it it'll be foos.lisp 19:49:11 and if you defclassed foo at one point in the past, it'd be food.lisp? 19:49:43 yummy 19:49:51 it all comes down to the fact that organizing source in files is yucky 19:50:47 ideally you want to have a system with some fanciful name (like, I dunno, "pure") and to otherwise access the source by way of inspector/debugger/class browser etc. 19:51:41 you cannot realistically ignore files altogether, of course but the list you can do is refuse to care about the fine points of naming them :) 19:51:59 *least 19:52:22 *cmm-* blames the beer 19:52:42 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.235.192] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 19:54:18 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6676e1-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:56:59 phnglui_ [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:10 cmm-: welcome to InterLISP and Smalltalk 19:57:18 I name classes or packages by singular, and files by classes or packages, therefore singular too. 19:58:39 use a file system supporting small files, and put each definition form in its own file! :-) 19:59:08 murderfs? 19:59:17 (sorry!) 19:59:25 Right the very same :-) 19:59:48 (defun package:symbol ...) goes into $HOME/src/program/package/symbol/function.lisp 19:59:49 -!- phnglui [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:59:50 -!- phnglui_ is now known as phnglui 19:59:55 (defvar package:symbol ...) goes into $HOME/src/program/package/symbol/variable.lisp 20:00:23 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6676e1-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 20:00:33 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-243-239.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:00:34 alternatively, put the entire system in one file. that'll let you excercise your literal programming chops 20:00:45 pjb don't do that, it breaks the file system analogy 20:01:11 Somebody was working on a VFS to access the symbols in an image a few months ago... 20:02:30 pjb: come to think about it, I like the lots-of-files idea. all you need is some sort of directory-of-lisp-files asdf source class, and to make sure it ignores backups and other junk. hmm. 20:02:57 define defpackage in one file use the package in another (or several) and and import it in the rest. Otherwise mainenace becomes a nightmare 20:03:01 and who cares about the underlying file system in this age of big honking disks anyway 20:03:35 Yes, just use the file system as a data base. 20:03:38 quack [~quack@213.13.201.234] has joined #lisp 20:03:48 With the right layer, you can switch to a real data base or whatever you want. 20:04:03 cmm-, only all that need to figure out where things are and how to install them.. everybody 20:04:56 ext3+ and NTFS has a journal and tecnically are databases (they can rollback) 20:04:59 I just don't like files to grow beyond 200 or so lines. that's when I split it up.... 20:05:46 pix4 too pedantic... 4000 lines can be right and 20 lines can be right. one file one task 20:06:20 pix4: your editor can't handle more than 200 lines? 20:07:13 Can anyone tell me why common-lisp-controller keeps complaining about contants.lisp-temp both in sb-posix and sb-bsd-sockets? I have to copy them under /var/cache/common-lisp-controller/... for it to work. 20:07:17 with 64K of memory, I can handle 800 lines! :) 20:07:43 quack: might be a bug in output file redirection 20:07:44 And besides, I keep having problems with clsql_uffi. 20:07:58 and/or in central-registry configuration 20:08:09 .oO( yeah sure, I use that zx spectrum lisp and I split at 200 lines even when it fscks up my day ) 20:08:22 quack, sbcl has a deranged definition of defconstant. might as well make them defvar sine the current implementation renders them useless 20:08:34 Fare: nah! clc is just not copying them to the destination directory. 20:08:39 unhappily, c-l-c uses ASDF 1.502 instead of say ASDF 1.620 20:08:40 s/sine/sice/ 20:09:04 these files should be precompiled by your version of SBCL 20:09:09 and left where they belong 20:09:29 there's is a solution: stop using c-l-c 20:10:26 stassats: I am just two bugs left. 20:10:40 stassats, it is fine for comiplig programs. Not for creating them. I also hate 'style warning: function alreay defined' 20:11:08 Younder: you're not making sense 20:12:09 stassats, I thought you were refeing to ' sbcl has a deranged definition of defconstant..' 20:12:26 There ar only two bugs left: that which I stated and clsql_uffi, which does not copy and load the lib. 20:12:34 Younder: that doesn't make sense as well 20:12:55 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:48 stassats, well look in the sbcl manual, and you will see what I mean. It is not exactly in agreement with other CL implementations. 20:14:47 I'm just reacting to things that annoy me i SBCL. 20:15:03 also the requirement to use defgeneric 20:15:09 it's conforming to ANSI Common Lisp 20:15:47 stassats, yes, but a subset of it used in PCL 20:17:01 stassats, perhaps if you used LispWorks for a while you would see what I mean. It is also CL compliant 20:17:31 then your code isn't conforming 20:17:49 if you're relying on undefined and unspecified consequences 20:17:52 rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:19:14 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-2-106.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:19:42 fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:19:44 It conforms to the standard stassats. But the standard, as you know, gives a great deal of freedom in how to implemet things and also how it behaves. Important during developement, since that is where the standard is the most vague. It mostly defines how a finished system shoud compile 20:20:04 -!- saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:15 mle [~emily@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:35 Younder: conforms in what way? in reliance upon undefined behavior? 20:22:36 lukjad007 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 20:23:28 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:43 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1177684015.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:24:18 stassats, there is nothing in the standard that sais a defmethod before a defgeeric is wrong or that redining a function is wrong 20:24:26 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1177684015.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 20:24:43 i was talking about defconstant 20:25:20 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:25:48 and regarding defmethod, it's a style warning, you can shut your eyes and not look at it 20:25:55 also the definition of defconstant in SBCL is unneccesairly restrictive. Making itterative use of it pointless. If you have to reload the lisp to change a constant you don't use it. and then hat is the point 20:26:13 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:26:28 being "unnecessarily restrictive" is the policy of SBCL 20:26:54 Fare: I know, I's just not one I agree with 20:27:28 Younder: redefining defconstant may break your program 20:27:42 Fare: so can redefining a macro 20:27:49 stassats, not Fare 20:29:05 wvdschel [~wim@d54C18EBE.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 20:29:11 billstclair [~billstcla@67.158.164.231] has joined #lisp 20:29:11 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@67.158.164.231] has quit [Changing host] 20:29:11 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:30:50 Look all you have to do to make defcanstand changable is keep track of the places it is used which it for debugging purposes does anyhow. If it on low debuging and safety levels gives an error fine. But it is just irritating during the developement phase. At least if you like me use a spiral developement cycle. 20:30:56 Younder, then use your own CL implementation 20:31:05 -!- Fullma [~fullma@LAubervilliers-153-53-30-161.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Fullma] 20:31:30 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:39 Fare, or LispWorks or Closere CL or Franz or Clisp 20:31:53 see, there's choice 20:32:03 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.183.138] has joined #lisp 20:32:12 standard is a 'relative' term 20:33:02 all that code you could have written while discussing to switch compilers just for defconstant! :D 20:33:08 Younder, you can handler-bind that problem away 20:33:32 Fare, yes, I read the SBCL manual 20:33:41 -!- lukjad007 is now known as lukjad86 20:33:51 Younder, why not use defparameter? or one of the many defconstant-equal and friends from whatever library? 20:34:06 Fare, that what's I in fact use 20:34:16 defparameter 20:35:08 I have the same problem with const variable declarations in functions in C++. Totally useless. 20:35:16 well not the same 20:35:41 dlowe [~dlowe@m715e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:15 const through all declarations in the programs, not const to that functions. That is just useless. 20:36:34 c++ is off-topic here 20:37:00 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@m715e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:37:21 #define const 20:38:18 :shadow (#:defconstant) ... (defmacro defconstant (...) (defparameter ...)) 20:38:19 fine, I like the extensive commenting on optimation, but wish it could be turned off for code I haven't written. It produces a flood of messages I can't do anything about. 20:38:34 you can turn it off indeed 20:38:49 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:38:54 Fare: it shoud be off by default. 20:38:58 I asked this yesterday, but: Anyone interested in getting this to compile/run with SBCL? It's Richard Fateman's "MockMMA" (Mock Mathematica) program he wrote in 1990. I'm sure there are general portability problems, but there are a couple files that should help (for instance, it depends on allegro's hashtables but there's an alternative file that is portable across all CLs I think). http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/mma1.6.tar.gz 20:39:00 at ITA, we turn off all the messages we don't want to see, and bork at the first message we want to see 20:39:13 If you are, please PM me. 20:39:20 quibbeling, quibbeling. It is still a damn good compiler 20:39:36 If it could just get the CLOS performance up 20:39:45 all is forgiven 20:39:45 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:40:11 Quadrescence: how much do you pay? 20:40:31 stassats: Nothing unfortunately since I don't have a job. 20:40:52 I can write some mean latex though. :) 20:41:01 Quadrescence, then this is a excellent learning oppertunity :) 20:41:19 *Younder* feels he has shot himself in the foot 20:41:24 Younder: Well of course. I've been working on it and just have not been having much luck. 20:41:58 saikatc [~saikatc@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:23 Quadrescence, Well perhaps if you could isolate the problems and present them one by one in either comp.lang.lisp or here withe example code (by pasteing it to the url site) we can help you 20:45:36 (There are better spellers/lispers around as well as me) 20:47:12 -!- oisin [~oisin@S0106000c76cb70ed.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Java user signed off] 20:47:16 We can help you solve problems, but we rarely solve them for you.. Where is the fun in that ;) 20:48:27 Younder: I don't have a response that won't make me sound ignorant or something like that. But anyway, the hyperspec says require/provide are deprecated. What is preferred now? 20:49:20 Quadrescence, packages 20:49:21 Quadrescence: ASDF 20:49:44 packages are orthogonal to this 20:49:59 no offence www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf 20:50:07 and ASDF 20:50:16 I guess I'll read that then. 20:50:33 stassats, not entirely they are like modules in modula 20:51:08 i don't no anything about modula, but packages have nothing to do with require or provide 20:52:09 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:52:33 francogrex [~user@66.43-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:52:49 stassats, Agreed provide pull's in files and needed. But it is used to isolate a program into sections. packages provide the namespace. ASDF the dependency loading. 20:53:12 stassats, so you really need to know both 20:53:36 Quadrescence: for what i know, sbcl's require is somehow hooked into asdf 20:55:30 varjagg [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:55:59 anyhow deprecaded assumes that there will be a new updated standard. Which there wont. So you wouln't go far wrong by assuming they will always be there. 20:56:35 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 20:56:52 -!- pevaneyn [~pevaneyn@118.35-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:57:48 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.50.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:58:20 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:04 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082E537.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:16 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:06 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082C880.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:03:53 unicode [~user@95.214.26.245] has joined #lisp 21:04:12 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:15 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:42 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:09:06 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-033-141.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:14 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-094-216-033-141.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 21:13:24 -!- rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:13:24 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 21:13:34 ... Anyone here use acclaim for showing slides? 21:15:34 dabd [~dabd@a85-139-97-227.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:16:14 *LiamH* uses beamer 21:16:54 -!- francogrex [~user@66.43-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:17:19 Ooh. 21:17:32 If I had more time to work with, I'd consider trying that. 21:18:39 I just made the plunge last month, because I had a talk to give that was based on a LaTeX paper. I learned beamer and TikZ (for figures) and now I'm converting my class notes from SliTeX. 21:19:30 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:21:00 Hrm... Looks like acclaim doesn't provide the sort of layout I want for this slide. :-/ 21:22:25 Bwah? It's using complex numbers to represent the size of a rendered element? 21:23:04 The display has an imaginary dimension? 21:23:06 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.8.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:23:27 Yes. I think it might be the vertical one. 21:23:57 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:25:40 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:13 xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:26:48 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.147] has joined #lisp 21:27:05 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 21:31:36 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:32:36 beamer and TikZ are fantastic 21:33:08 Agreed, definitely worth the effort. 21:34:22 I wish there were better (any) 3D capability in TikZ though. 21:35:22 LiamH: pov-ray :) 21:35:47 there is a teeny amount 21:36:01 the coordinate system is kinda-sorta-3d 21:36:21 pkhuong: I used pov-ray a while ago, it's good but doesn't have some geometric objects I'm looking for like ellipses. 21:36:50 -!- quack [~quack@213.13.201.234] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:37:18 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 21:37:19 Krystof: Yes, and I've looked at sketch for helping with the hidden surface removal, but I don't see that it has any objects other than points and lines. 21:38:25 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:40:16 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:41:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:42:03 i found beamer quite easy to use. For graphics I use xfig or gnuplot and import the pdfs. 21:42:07 Of course, what it has is way better than what I was using before (scanning pictures out of books). What I just did was find a wikpedia figure that was close and modify the svg in emacs to get what I wanted, then convert to pdf and includegraphics in the latex. 21:42:18 prxq: beamer from org-mode! 21:42:45 sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 21:42:52 Demosthenes: I've heard about that. But I also have a bad x-symbol habit 21:43:04 prxq: I used to use ipe, but tikz is better. 21:43:44 tikz is a language, right? 21:43:52 or rather, a latex extension? 21:45:00 i only find a download page. 21:45:02 prxq: thing of it as a latex extension, yes 21:45:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 21:45:40 prxq: it comes with a ~400 page manual 21:45:45 http://www.texample.net/tikz/examples/ is the canonical reference page 21:45:49 which is very, very pretty 21:45:49 Making ConTeXt documents is simple: make a plain text file (typically with .tex extension) and compile with texexec (texexec [name of the file])[35]. The result of this process is a PDF file (ConTeXt also can generate a DVI file). An example is shown below.% This line is a comment because % preceeds it. 21:45:52 LiamH: ah ok 21:45:54 % It specifies the format of head named 'title' 21:45:57 % Specifically the style of the font: sans serif 21:46:00 % + bold + big font. 21:46:02 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 21:46:02 argh. mispaste, sorry for that 21:46:16 -!- Krystof has set mode -o Krystof 21:46:30 prxq: org rocks as a publishing platform 21:46:44 Guest3904 [~user@xdsl-87-78-101-84.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:47:01 Demosthenes: I had planed to move the little html i do from muse to org, but haven't found the time. 21:47:34 Is there anything wrong with this struct? I'm getting an error that size is undefined: http://paste.lisp.org/display/95380 21:47:35 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:43 *Younder* tries to read up un the novelties of zfs and lustre 21:47:45 Demosthenes: otoh, if it is not compatible with x-symbol, I'm afraid *I* can't use it for typical academic use. 21:48:03 -!- BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:48:11 prxq: Manual http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/graphics/pgf/base/doc/generic/pgf/pgfmanual.pdf 21:48:17 -!- Guest3904 is now known as sepult` 21:49:11 Seems the Norwegian Meteroligical Institute has some intesting Linux cluster computers.. 21:50:19 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 21:50:30 BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 21:50:31 Interview coming up can't seem like a total noop.. 21:50:41 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-101-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:44 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-101-84.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:54:16 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-101-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:09 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-123-27.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:57:09 -!- Morbeo [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:57:13 -!- djanatyn_ [~djanatyn@pool-74-98-199-53.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 21:59:21 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:41 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-123-27.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:01:30 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-123-27.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:02:41 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-123-27.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:01 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d54C18EBE.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 22:03:08 -!- pix4 [~pixel@copei.de] has quit [Quit: .] 22:03:48 chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-vazdnpngefxjnjel] has joined #lisp 22:03:50 -!- varjagg [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:42 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:05:13 -!- Athas` [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:51 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 22:07:04 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:10 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 22:07:15 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-123-27.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:34 -!- prxq [~mommer@g227021050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: good night] 22:07:38 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229170084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:09:46 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 22:11:11 marcob [~marco@host254-65-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:12:32 -!- marcob [~marco@host254-65-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 22:13:55 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.23] has joined #lisp 22:14:12 LiamH: ellipses are easily defined as isosurfaces, but I'm fairly certain you can take a sphere and stretch it. 22:14:37 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-217-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:46 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:16 fiveop [~fiveop@g229170084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:18:15 pkhuong: in povray? I had trouble with the whole 2d object in a 3d world, I ended up making elliptical tori which looked kind of funny (no doubt due to my lack of skill). Anyway I don't really need the rendering aspect, just tikz-like drawing of geometric shapes and fonts. 22:18:22 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:42 felideon [~felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:18 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:25 -!- chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-vazdnpngefxjnjel] has quit [] 22:23:57 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 22:24:46 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229170084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:24:47 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:50 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 22:26:45 Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 22:29:20 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:02 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.19.113.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:34:36 -!- dtulig-b [~dtulig-b@cpe-66-68-93-116.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:54 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:54 dnolen_ [~dnolen@pool-70-19-64-12.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:37 -!- mega1 [~quassel@3e44b299.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:39:00 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 22:39:46 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-96-224-23-25.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:39:46 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 22:40:10 when I try to compile sbcl from the source I got the error that sb-posix failed to buil, on OSX 10.6, any idea? 22:42:16 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:34 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:44:24 -!- lesterc [~lcheung@203-206-172-135.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: lesterc] 22:44:33 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-42-217.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:44:46 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:45:04 -!- dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:31 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 22:50:07 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:13 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:25 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-159-155.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:52:13 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 22:54:34 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.23] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 22:55:14 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.26.245] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:57:32 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:59:29 when one writes in the middle of some stream, does it "append" or "overwrite" the characters at the current position? 23:01:15 tetiana [~user@charcoal.rendition.volia.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:08 hi, How can i enumerate files in a directory? 23:02:47 clhs directory 23:02:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dir.htm 23:03:45 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:05:54 thanks! 23:09:29 Why does (directory "~/") return nil? 23:10:08 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:10:21 tetiana: because you don't have a directory named "~" on your disk 23:10:23 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:10:36 and because you haven't read the above link 23:12:02 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:04 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:15:14 (directory (make-pathname :defaults (user-homedir-pathname) :name :wild :type :wild)) 23:15:25 syamajala [~syamajala@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:29 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:19 I need a kind of 'glob.glob(search_mask)' in python, 'Dir.glob(search_mask)' in ruby or 'boost::directory_iterator' in C++. 23:16:47 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:17:00 do these iterate recursively? 23:17:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:36 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:19:04 tetiana` [~user@charcoal.rendition.volia.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:58 minion: with-directory-iterator 23:19:59 with-directory-iterator: WITH-DIRECTORY-ITERATOR is a proposal of the Common Lisp Utilities family to solve the perpetual portability issues associated with :(CLHS DIRECTORY). http://www.cliki.net/with-directory-iterator 23:20:02 dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has joined #lisp 23:20:10 it's a cl extension, but it's a very useful one 23:20:31 (as a useful difference to DIRECTORY, it doesn't resolve symlinks) 23:20:52 also, iolib has another implementation of a filesystem access protocol for cl 23:20:58 minion: iolib 23:21:00 -!- tetiana [~user@charcoal.rendition.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:21:02 iolib: I/O(mainly networking) library containing: a BSD sockets library, a DNS resolver and an I/O multiplexer that supports select(2), epoll(4) and kqueue(2). http://www.cliki.net/iolib 23:21:17 hmm, I should update that description 23:21:36 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:37 -!- tetiana` [~user@charcoal.rendition.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:42 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:25:53 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:28:23 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:59 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:00 -!- fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 23:33:03 Anyone here work through the weblocks demos? 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