00:00:12 i don't know, i didn't find the book very helpful 00:00:20 PAIP teaches not AI, but how to write programs in Common Lisp 00:01:06 PAIP is a good book for learning about Common Lisp. 00:01:17 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 00:01:58 HET2: Lisp is 50 years old.. PAIP is not dated... it's not even middle aged. 00:02:33 yeah err, i am sure the lisp that was common 50 years ago wouldn't do you much good nowadays 00:03:39 HET2: well, it still runs ;) 00:04:17 HET2, what's better than PAIP then for learning about common lisp? 00:04:20 HET2, http://informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/wang.html 00:04:34 Adlai: thanks, i was looking for that 00:04:43 bjorkintosh: he wouldn't know :P 00:04:45 *Adlai* browses like the wind 00:04:49 yeah i wouldn't know 00:04:54 i am just a trolling n00b :) 00:04:59 don't take me too seriously 00:05:17 very well then. 00:05:58 Practical Common Lisp is good for learning Common Lisp as well 00:06:10 Adlai: i get a kick out of the card stack every time i read that 00:06:19 Adlai, that code does nothing outside the lisp world 00:06:31 Adlai, which frankly doesn't really cut it 00:06:40 <_deepfire> Xach, does blog.feelingofgreen.ru look like Planet material? The atom feed employs a 'lisp' tag. 00:06:46 HET2, it actually does, it interacts with a card stack. 00:07:09 since card stacks aren't useful nowadays (the internet wasn't useful 50 years ago either), we simulate it. 00:07:49 s/useful/common/g 00:08:27 that's why the could put the man on the moon, there was no internet to distract them 00:08:38 hah 00:08:48 and they had a cold war to give them motivation 00:09:03 _deepfire: I'll check it out 00:09:11 <_deepfire> Xach, granted, one post may be too little to make an informed decision. 00:09:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:26 _deepfire: i was about to say... there's not actually any content 00:09:29 :) 00:10:04 <_deepfire> drewc, I promise, there will be! 00:10:16 next posts will worship pg and praise Arc 00:10:28 heheh 00:10:31 <_deepfire> stassats, a must! 00:10:39 *drewc* misses brucio :( 00:10:47 We don't hear so much about Arc, these days 00:11:16 <_deepfire> stassats, also, I will cover the undeservedly forgotten newLisp. 00:11:19 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: rebooting into 2.6.32.7] 00:11:22 maelcoluim [~maelcolui@client-80-5-175-102.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:49 <_deepfire> The newAI winter must've struck it hard. 00:11:57 finally! say no to conservatism 00:12:05 :D 00:13:59 will there be Common newLisp? 00:14:51 stassats: the best of Arc and newLisp, combined by commitee! 00:14:51 what about the deck of cards from 1960 00:15:06 drewc: my thoughts exactly 00:15:07 HET2, it wasn't made in china, therefore it's lasted. 00:15:09 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 00:15:31 bjorkintosh, yes but it wouldn't run on common newlisp 00:15:43 common newRisp is made in china. 00:15:44 -!- leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1] 00:15:56 not in Japan? 00:16:14 nope. deflationary economy etc... no desire to make anything but fast cars. 00:17:55 -!- rotty [~rotty@78.41.115.190] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:18:05 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:30 jan247 [~jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:30 -!- jan247 [~jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:18:30 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 00:19:41 pkhuong: around? I'm having issues connecting with pvk.ca 00:20:40 same here. I'm told the server will be back online tomorrow. It seems the box crashed hard when it's overloaded with traffic. 00:21:13 Anything you're looking for in particular? 00:21:55 pkhuong: i wanted the source for SFUNCTION 00:22:09 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:09 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:22:09 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 00:22:26 That's in . 00:22:34 well, that's excellent then! 00:23:47 pkhuong: much obliged sir, thanks a lot. 00:24:53 Beware the bad macroexpansion-time side effects. 00:25:05 I should expand to load-time-value forms instead. 00:25:41 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-240-213.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:32 *drewc* loves having such tall giants around, with such comfortable shoulders! 00:27:53 amarn [~diannawhi@41.217.65.4] has joined #lisp 00:28:01 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:30:35 -!- amarn [~diannawhi@41.217.65.4] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:04 kermit [~zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit] has joined #lisp 00:32:50 Pocket [~pocket@p1048-ipbf3309hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:37:26 jsfb [~jon@pool-96-231-114-178.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:27 pkhuong: are you aware of any other web frameworks that solve the inversion of control problem in interesting ways? Papers i might want to read? 00:38:34 nope... 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[~kwinz@213162066161.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 02:10:18 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11:08 stoop [~stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 02:15:52 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-120-122.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:18:03 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 02:19:06 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-245-211.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:45 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:45 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:22:45 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 02:23:49 pjb [~t@80.29.231.206] has joined #lisp 02:26:37 are symbol macros established by a toplevel define-symbol-macro effective in the subsequent compile-time environment? 02:26:50 ie does define-symbol-macro necessarily expand into an "eval-always" 02:26:50 ? 02:27:59 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:28:10 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-20-104.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 02:28:35 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:29:25 yates [~yates@cpe-174-097-145-232.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:26 Adlai: indeed, it doesn't seem to be explicit from the clhs. I would expect it to work as defmacro. 02:29:41 isn't there an "upcase" function? 02:29:49 that works on an entire string? 02:29:50 string-upcase 02:29:50 clhs string-upcase 02:29:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_stg_up.htm 02:29:54 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:29:56 yates: what do you want to upcase? 02:30:09 a string 02:30:16 stassats`: thanks 02:30:19 (there's also a char-upcase). 02:30:27 yates: also, mind the permuted index! 02:30:36 pjb, I'd expect that too, but is there some more evidence in the spec that supports this expectation? 02:30:37 huh? 02:30:52 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-120-122.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:41 -!- blackened` [~blackened@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [Quit: blackened`] 02:32:59 yates: in the Symbols link: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/X_Symbol.htm 02:33:21 Click on the U in the second list, the Permuted Symbol Index. 02:33:36 or apropos :) 02:34:02 ahh! thanks pjb! (give a man a fish...) 02:34:37 or clqr 02:35:36 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:35:45 -!- JohnnyL [excellent_@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 02:36:17 a tiny further question... ? 02:36:48 isn't there a way to get the current working directory ? that is, assuming the code has been compiled and is being invoked at the CLI? 02:39:17 yates: there's no notion of current working directory in CL. In CL, you use *default-pathname-defaults*. 02:39:23 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:39:27 yates: in clisp, you can use (ext:cd) 02:39:37 yes, clisp/sbcl 02:39:41 (defun pwd () (ext:cd)) (defun cd (path) (ext:cd path)) 02:39:45 -!- Athas` [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:54 sorry, i mean i'm using sbcl 02:39:57 sb-posix:getcwd 02:39:59 yates: in sbcl I don't know. There is probably something similar. 02:40:11 yates: read the implementation documentation. 02:40:26 too late 02:40:54 stassats` (et al.): how do i find out what packages are availabe for sbcl? 02:41:08 what do you mean? 02:41:09 yates: Notice that nothing ensure that the unix current working directory is the same as the *default-pathname-defaults*, so you may still have surprizes. 02:41:35 stassats`: isn't "sb-posix" a package? 02:41:39 yates: I have a com.informatimago.common-lisp.browser package that exports commands such as pwd, cd, etc, with hooks to keep both synchronized. 02:41:46 it is 02:42:13 stassats`: are packages specific to an implementation or usable over multiple implementations? 02:42:39 yates: some packages are provided by the implementation, and some of them are specific. 02:42:40 yates: only CL and CL-USER are standard 02:42:45 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 02:43:02 or that wasn't the question 02:43:22 well, sb-posix is specific to sbcl 02:43:41 and :keyword 02:43:57 how could i forget 02:44:38 However, nothing prevents you to immmmmplement a sb-posix package in other implementations, to port your sbcl programs to them. 02:44:45 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: restarting emacs. gahhhh.] 02:45:04 ok, folks, thanks. i was just going to go to the other room and i've wound up half-way across the Atlantic... 02:45:13 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 02:45:43 i thought i would try my hand at porting an emacs function to a compiled cl command. bah! 02:45:59 me->"This shouldn't take more than 5 minutes..." 02:46:21 anybody have a definite idea about define-symbol-macro ? 02:46:39 (whether it establishes the symbol macro in the compile-time environment when it's a toplevel form) 02:47:06 timchen1` [tim@163.16.211.21] has joined #lisp 02:48:00 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:24 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:48:34 since it's specified that the compiler should replace all symbol macros, i would assume "yes" 02:50:17 alright, thanks 02:51:05 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: blargh restarting emacs again] 02:51:26 -!- dnm_ [~dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:51:55 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 02:52:40 With xref, if I define a function, call that function a few places, then look for callers of that function... they are there. But if I remove the call to the function and recompile the file, xref seems to think its still there. Is that normal? 02:53:18 sounds normal 02:53:50 so xref only adds and never removes? 02:54:37 I mean I could restart the lisp after a while but I hate doing that 02:54:47 your definition is still in the image 02:56:58 what if you unintern it? 02:57:11 jsfb: the function doing the call? 02:57:16 let me try 02:57:24 dnm_ [~dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:14 if that's sbcl, won't it be stuck in the info-db? 02:58:50 its sbcl. let me try this though :) 02:59:29 lukego [~lukegorri@246.250.48.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 03:01:34 jsfb: thats interesting, now I see it as #:quux, just as an uninterned symbol (it picked that up) but it still thinks there is a call when there is not. 03:02:06 how is there not a call? 03:02:21 the function could still be referenced 03:02:33 rahul: not if I recompile it ^-^ 03:02:42 nixeagle: not true 03:02:42 or am I mistaken? 03:02:48 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:48 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:02:49 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 03:02:50 ooh cool, what don't I know 03:02:54 compiling doesn't delete objects 03:03:08 that's like saying (setf x 1) deletes the old value of x 03:03:29 ah, its possible gc has not hit it yet? 03:03:31 a function is an object like any other 03:03:39 very likely it hasn't 03:03:47 and possible it never will 03:03:47 aha! this is making sense 03:04:00 right because something may still have a reference to that object 03:04:11 yeah, the info-db 03:04:19 that contains the who-calls info :) 03:04:39 this is logical and makes alot more sense now. I almost should have thought of it myself 03:04:44 nixeagle, if you're on SBCL, try an (sb-ext:gc :full t) 03:04:55 it MIGHT get deleted with a full gc in some cases 03:05:05 but that doesn't mean the info-db will get updated 03:05:20 Adlai: it did 03:05:27 the infodb should be subject to GC itself 03:05:28 very neat :) 03:05:40 Thanks guys 03:05:41 Adlai: only if it uses weak refs 03:05:43 np 03:05:49 which it might for all I know :) 03:05:50 rahul: it must 03:05:59 rahul, well, you know my opinions on that topic....... 03:06:01 no, it doesn't need to 03:06:13 rahul: well I mean it must on sbcl 1.0.34 03:06:16 it should, if people bothered to make it use weak refs 03:06:32 nixeagle: I agree that things should function as coded 03:06:40 that doesn't say anything about what was coded 03:07:19 rahul: of course, when I say "it must" I mean the gc did the job for me, which means gc must be able to modify the infodb 03:07:39 mind you I don't know what a weak ref is and what the alternative is. I have never encountered it. 03:08:04 -!- jordyd [~jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:08:07 right, giving out a version number does not imply anything about functionality a priori 03:08:09 Usually a weak ref doesn't protect from GC and if what it refers to is collected it becomes NIL. 03:09:11 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.235] has joined #lisp 03:09:19 worded otherwise, it's a requeest to allow this object to be GC'd and replace it with something benign and useless when it is gc'd 03:09:26 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:10:12 oh ok, where can I read about this? 03:10:58 nixeagle, http://www.haible.de/bruno/papers/cs/weak/WeakDatastructures-writeup.html 03:11:02 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 03:12:01 thanks Adlai 03:12:20 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip72-204-42-139.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:49 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:13:33 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 03:17:58 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:48 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 03:22:49 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:26:22 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:29 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:30:53 nixeagle: they're also available in java, so maybe you'll find white papers from that community useful, too 03:36:48 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:19 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@75-92-29-226.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:48 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:48 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:42:48 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 03:43:22 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-242-204.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:45:25 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:47:31 *jsfb* is away: Is AFK 03:48:26 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:50:58 *jsfb* is back (gone 00:03:27) 03:52:38 cools`` [~user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:14 To load a system, it seems that (require 'system-name) works the same as (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'system-op). Is one method preferable to the other. I'm using sbcl. 03:53:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-75-128.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:45 I meant to say 'system-name, not 'system-op 03:54:12 What I've found is that in SBCL once properly configured (require 'sys) works just fine, I think the effect is the same 03:54:39 *jsfb* is a relative noob to such matters in asdf an sbcl however 03:55:15 das64: (require ...) is pretty implentation specific. To be portable do it with (asdf:...) 03:55:54 -!- cools` [~user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:46 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip72-204-42-139.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:14 thanks 03:57:56 das64: also if you are writing a library or something you want to distribute... check out how asdf itself works as you will probably want a system definition. 03:58:00 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:25 cools``` [~user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:48 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:48 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:02:49 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 04:04:13 -!- cools`` [~user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:08:22 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:08:23 -!- jsfb [~jon@pool-96-231-114-178.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:09:43 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:16:26 is it possible to undefine a symbol macro? 04:16:30 sykopomp: nope. 04:16:48 You could perhaps redefine it to itself ... 04:17:15 Zhivago: that'd result in circular expansion. 04:17:35 Awkward. 04:17:37 ech. Thanks. 04:18:13 -!- QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:20:38 Good morning! 04:22:49 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:49 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:22:49 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 04:23:11 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-8-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:10 -!- benny [~benny@i577A875A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:26:45 benny [~benny@i577A82EE.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:27:15 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host81-132-171-8.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 04:29:13 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:33:06 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lywydrvkusbdjmnw] has joined #lisp 04:35:48 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 04:36:35 fatblueduck [~chris@71.104.235.97] has joined #lisp 04:41:08 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-122.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:42:49 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:49 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:42:49 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 04:46:26 -!- cools``` [~user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:54 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51:35 lpolzer__ [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-229-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:43 HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 04:53:15 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:03 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:55:48 -!- lpolzer_ [~lpolzer@dslb-088-073-206-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:57:53 -!- marioxcc-AFK [~user@200.92.23.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:47 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:52 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:02:52 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 05:07:31 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.97] has joined #lisp 05:08:12 QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 05:08:52 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:12:52 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440502.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 05:14:34 karstensrage [~karstensr@c-71-202-243-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.222.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:22:46 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:46 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:22:46 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 05:23:42 adu_ [~ajr@pool-173-66-61-164.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:22 -!- luis [~user@r42.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:25:58 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-8-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:28:12 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@246.250.48.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: lukego] 05:28:18 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066161.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:28:30 -!- adu_ [~ajr@pool-173-66-61-164.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:28:43 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-61-164.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:45 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:35:56 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 05:36:22 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-122.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:38:59 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has joined #lisp 05:40:08 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:44 is there such a thing as an irc client written in common lisp? 05:42:53 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 05:42:53 not googling much on this .. 05:42:54 minion: beirc? 05:42:54 beirc: beirc is a CLIM IRC client Application using the cl-irc library as a backend, initially written by Gilbert Baumann, now maintained by Dave Murray and others. http://www.cliki.net/beirc 05:42:58 oh 05:43:00 danke 05:43:09 There are a number of cl irc clients, iirc. 05:44:19 i thought id find a reference in ubuntu repos to irc clients and lisp but nada, beirc is no longer there, i vaguely remember seing it in debian years ago 05:46:43 DeusExPikachu [~DeusExPik@pool-141-157-41-127.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:13 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:51:23 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 05:51:33 -!- jimster [~jimster@cpe-70-116-158-133.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:53:07 lukego [~lukegorri@246.250.48.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 05:53:08 minion: orbtiz? 05:53:08 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``orbtiz''. 05:53:36 minion: cl-opengl? 05:53:36 cl-opengl: cl-opengl is a set of CFFI bindings to the OpenGL, GLU and GLUT APIs. http://www.cliki.net/cl-opengl 05:54:01 adu: What is orbtiz? 05:54:18 maybe he's thinking of QPX? 05:54:32 beach: its a travel portal, I was told long ago that it was written in CL 05:55:01 adu: it's not written in CL. QPX is part of the backend for searching for this stuff. 05:55:17 adu: That would be "orbitz" rather than "orbtiz" 05:55:31 hehe 05:55:35 adu: Minion doesn't know about it, but you can google it. 05:56:40 *adu* can't splle 06:00:48 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:03:44 -!- QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:22 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 06:05:48 QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 06:05:54 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:54 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:05:54 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 06:06:01 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.10.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:06:31 cmm [~cmm@109.64.10.30] has joined #lisp 06:08:27 mrSpec [~Spec@chello089074179078.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:08:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@chello089074179078.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:08:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:11:28 -!- QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:18 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:14:39 smanek [~smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:40 QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 06:18:19 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-132.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:24:09 -!- das64 [~das@adsl-67-124-39-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:27:28 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 06:28:42 good morning. 06:29:18 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-65-127.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:29:51 hello RaceCondition 06:32:53 good morning to you 06:33:15 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:37:47 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 06:39:31 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 06:40:28 Hello beach. Long time no see. 06:43:59 what's this abcl? does it work like jython and whatnot? 06:44:30 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-132.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:26 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:40 bjorkintosh: in the sense that it runs on the JVM, yes, it's like jython. 06:48:06 Except, of course, that there's actually a de jure standard for Common Lisp, to which you can compare ABCL's behavior. 06:49:16 let a 1000 lisps bloom. 06:49:40 so it can be used in lieu of java or python on the jvm. 06:49:43 that's cool. 06:50:45 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 06:52:22 -!- rme [rme@clozure-51821EF0.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:52:23 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-120-122.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:53:20 Traveler99 [~traveler9@208-180-219-133.tex.sta.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:35 hoyt [~hoyt@208-180-219-133.tex.sta.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:37 -!- hoyt [~hoyt@208-180-219-133.tex.sta.suddenlink.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:55:45 -!- Traveler99 [~traveler9@208-180-219-133.tex.sta.suddenlink.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:57:21 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-75-128.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:58:59 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-052-045.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:06 -!- ivan_chernetsky [~ivan@195.222.64.60] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:00:25 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:02:49 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:02:54 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:06:52 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:08:44 -!- tankrim [~qsvans@c-93fce255.010-54-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 07:11:31 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:31 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:11:31 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 07:13:16 -!- QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:13:24 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:56 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:15:29 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:15:39 -!- Fufie [~innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:16:26 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 07:18:12 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:22:48 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:22:55 ivan_chernetsky [~ivan@195.222.64.216] has joined #lisp 07:23:21 Hi I have written a complete lisp api to github, its named nisp.github atm, is it appropriate for me to name it cl-github and make it asdf installable under that name? The library is roughly 800 lines and covers all 6 of github's api groups. 07:24:24 Does google find anything else for cl-github? 07:25:01 not that I know of, I'll check 07:25:14 If not, I don't see why not? :) 07:25:47 not that I see. This is my very first library that I wrote in like 18 hours a few days ago 07:25:58 Nice. :) 07:26:32 its kinda raw, but I was suggested to go ahead and release, so I'm going to do so 07:26:40 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:26:42 alot of my objects don't have accessor methods ^-^ 07:26:57 Just as long as you spell "it's" and "a lot" properly in the documentation. 07:27:10 Zhivago: hehe I'll try :) 07:27:20 minion: thwap for me 07:27:20 guaqua: have a look at thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 07:27:32 those urls are also for you, nixeagle ;) 07:28:02 haha :P 07:28:46 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:29:01 anyway aside from the english lessons, I have some git filtering and releasing to get to 07:29:06 QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 07:29:35 splittist [~bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-dqsiajoyfyajobyt] has joined #lisp 07:29:39 morning 07:30:54 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 07:31:30 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:30 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:31:30 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 07:31:52 das64 [~das@adsl-67-124-39-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:34 -!- QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:34:02 I am currently reading chapter 4 of Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming. A sample program defines a function called debug. I am trying to define the same function in sbcl, but I get a package lock error. Why are there package locks on symbols that are not used? 07:35:14 Which symbol? 07:36:08 (find-symbol "DEBUG" (find-package "CL")) ; might be enlightning. 07:36:23 ttt-- [~ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:36:25 In this case you should set up a package which shadows DEBUG and you'll then be fine. 07:38:04 Thanks Zhivago 07:38:10 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:41:31 fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:45:46 QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 07:48:22 aw damn it. sbcl 1.0.35 fails sb-posix tests on x86-64 darwin. 07:48:38 I briefly noticed that yesterday and failed to report. )-: 07:51:12 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:51:31 tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:31 -!- tarbo [~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:51:31 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 07:54:17 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.197.90] has joined #lisp 07:55:24 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 07:58:21 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:02:56 amnesiac [~amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:56 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:02:56 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 08:02:58 -!- QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:03:40 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-052-045.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:04:06 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:04:19 good morning 08:04:44 hi mvilleneuve 08:06:22 -!- ttt-- [~ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:09:38 -!- das64 [~das@adsl-67-124-39-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:11:37 Fufie [~poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:12:29 nicklme [~52b652fa@gateway/web/freenode/x-vvhcbeyvjkepizce] has joined #lisp 08:13:47 -!- fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1] 08:13:53 frender [~fredrick@c83-249-82-76.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:14:02 hello! can anyone please point me to an explanation of "labels" (tried reading the hyperspec)? :) 08:14:12 -!- rares [~rares@174-17-94-251.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 08:14:36 Recursive flet. 08:15:47 leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:16:14 http://jtra.cz/stuff/lisp/sclr/labels.html 08:17:52 I am developing a numerical model solving some differential equations. I have dozens of parameters like (defparameter t_w2 3d-12 "WL -> ES electron capture time."). 08:20:29 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20:57 leo2007 pasted "Example" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94209 08:21:28 Is there anything I can do to make things easier in terms of changing the parameters and reading the code? Paste 94209 is a snippet of the code. 08:21:52 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 08:22:12 Well, if you used defparameter you can just change them in the source and re-load. 08:22:26 Or you could write a function to change them. 08:22:27 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:22:36 I'm not sure that I understand your problem. 08:23:00 amnesiac [~amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:00 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:23:00 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 08:23:29 leo2007, you should have used a macrolet to emit the dozen of defparameters... 08:24:32 attila_lendvai: that would mean chaning the function everytime when changing any parameters, right? 08:25:45 No. 08:25:46 Zhivago: because of names like t_w2 t_2w etc it is too easy to mix up. It even happened to me once. 08:25:54 leo2007, well, sticking to some form of a naming convention is mandatory if you want to avoid renaming stuff... be that the name of a global variable, or a code you give to an accessor macro that emits the necessary code 08:26:10 leo: So what do you want to write instead? 08:26:35 s/necessary code/necessary lisp forms/ 08:26:50 What does t_w2 mean here? 08:26:55 Zhivago: not entirely sure. I am pooling ideas to improve it 08:27:01 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.117.160] has joined #lisp 08:27:43 that's one of the parameters: WL -> ES electron capture time 08:28:01 t_2w is jumping from ES -> WL 08:28:07 So why not write *wl-es-electron-capture-time*? 08:28:48 Zhivago: ok. 08:29:17 attila_lendvai: I will study macrolet. I haven't used it:( 08:29:18 or wl->es? 08:29:28 I don't know what is suitable. 08:30:22 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:30:46 Zhivago: that sounds fine. All these parameters are describing a quantum dot (like an atom). Would oop help in organising the parameters? 08:30:50 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:31:49 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:31:54 leo2007, do you want inheritance and encapsulation? 08:32:07 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:34:24 nus: I need to solve a myriad of differential equations to present the properties of QD. Sorry I didn't answer the question directly because I am not sure. 08:35:04 attila_lendvai: I read macrolet on hyperspec. I am not sure how macrolet can help on this. Would you be able to give me a simple example? Thanks. 08:35:20 leo2007, the problem is you're trying to come up with a DSL, that requires insight into both of QD and CL. 08:35:51 nus: what's DSL? 08:36:08 leo2007: domain-specific language. 08:36:09 leo2007, the point is *if* there's an algorithm how you can generate the names of your variables then you can do that with macrolet. if there's no such algo, then you should stick to long names like Zhivago suggested 08:36:20 sykopomp: thanks 08:36:39 attila_lendvai: got it. Thanks. 08:37:06 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:37:06 -!- erk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:37:29 leo2007, also, if you need speed then you should roll your own data representation, even if you want to think in OOP. (but do be aware of the evils of early optimizations!) 08:39:16 attila_lendvai: I am programming on top of GSLL so I will not worry about speed at this stage. Yes speed is definitely a concern. Thanks for the headsup. 08:40:48 I can't find a copy of PAIP on all libraries of my Uni. Isn't that weird? 08:41:23 abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:46:02 leo2007, are objects in the universe of QD discourse bound by hierarchical relationships? 08:46:11 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@71.104.235.97] has left #lisp 08:47:58 nus: sort of and will become more so when the model evolves 08:49:30 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-208-87.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:50:44 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:53:58 -!- HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:56:00 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7555de.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:30 unicode [~user@95.214.59.59] has joined #lisp 09:05:30 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:06:16 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:07:37 -!- nicklme [~52b652fa@gateway/web/freenode/x-vvhcbeyvjkepizce] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:14:43 -!- guaqua [gua@217.30.184.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:14:49 guaqua [gua@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 09:16:00 QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:17:41 -!- ivan_chernetsky [~ivan@195.222.64.216] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:20:25 Thank you all for the suggestions. I will develop the model further and see what comes up. 09:21:48 jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:02 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 09:23:55 ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 09:27:30 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:28:53 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 09:32:53 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:46 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-89-130.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:36:36 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-176-179.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:37:46 -!- splittist [~bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-dqsiajoyfyajobyt] has quit [K-Lined] 09:38:58 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7555de.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:34 kwinz3 [kwinz@d86-33-115-99.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 09:46:58 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@75-92-29-226.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:51:58 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 09:54:42 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:56:51 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: changing servers] 09:57:02 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-197-60.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:58:06 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:08 what do you think of this book, Object-oriented programming : the CLOS perspective / edited by Andreas Paepcke? 10:01:33 sorry not that one, this one Object-oriented common LISP / Stephen Slade 10:01:55 ttt-- [~ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:02:36 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 10:03:52 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 10:04:00 good morning 10:04:21 mornin 10:04:51 leo2007: it's ok but there are far better books like PCL 10:05:28 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has left #lisp 10:06:58 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:07:17 blandest [~blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 10:08:39 -!- kwinz3 [kwinz@d86-33-115-99.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:09:26 -!- QinGW [~wangqingw@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:09 aerique: thanks. I already have PCL ;) 10:12:10 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:12:59 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:01 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:13:17 leo2007: alright, then you really don't need Slade's book 10:13:39 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 10:13:55 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:32 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:20 aerique: ahh, thanks for that. 10:24:44 -!- leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: go out] 10:24:49 silenius [~jl@2a01:238:e100:320:21f:c6ff:fed7:73bb] has joined #lisp 10:27:45 blue112 [~Blue@sen89-2-88-171-76-55.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:45 -!- blue112 [~Blue@sen89-2-88-171-76-55.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:27:45 blue112 [~Blue@unaffiliated/blue112] has joined #lisp 10:27:50 -!- blue112 [~Blue@unaffiliated/blue112] has left #lisp 10:28:54 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 10:29:50 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:30:14 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.53] has joined #lisp 10:33:12 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:36:24 Jabberwockey [~jens@port-90207.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 10:40:01 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 10:41:34 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:45:25 daniel [~daniel@p5082D6A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:39 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 10:46:59 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-245-211.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:47:09 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e195-154.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:48:18 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082EE4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:52:01 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-245-211.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:43 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:04 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:55:14 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:56:15 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 10:57:26 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-208-87.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit: I wish the toaster to be happy, too.] 10:59:54 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:02:22 hi ! 11:03:38 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 11:03:38 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@89.202.147.18] has quit [Changing host] 11:03:39 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 11:03:44 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Client Quit] 11:04:49 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 11:04:49 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@89.202.147.18] has quit [Changing host] 11:04:49 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 11:05:36 hello 11:09:00 hullo 11:09:44 howdy :) 11:10:00 hello sepult, lukego 11:11:08 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e195-154.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:12:23 luis` [~user@r42.eu] has joined #lisp 11:13:00 -!- luis` is now known as luis 11:13:33 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:13:51 ivan_chernetsky [~ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 11:15:45 -!- blandest [~blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:17:02 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 11:17:08 fiveop [~fiveop@g229112232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:14 <_deepfire> aerique, do you have an opinion on Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS? 11:18:26 <_deepfire> aerique, by Sonya Keene, that is 11:18:59 Hello, What does this error mean: No CLIM-SYS:MAKE-PROCESS here. [Condition of type SIMPLE-ERROR], I'm trying to run McPixel (from LispPlanet). I've installed McCLIM, do I need something else? 11:19:09 _deepfire: no i don't. unfortunately i have never read it 11:19:19 splittist [~bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-umbxlyrzgqrmhcsi] has joined #lisp 11:20:10 _deepfire: i just read the beginnings 11:20:31 _deepfire: it's a good book, to get into clos 11:20:49 <_deepfire> Dan Winreb commented on amazon: 11:20:54 <_deepfire> er, Weinreb 11:20:57 <_deepfire> "Sonya Keene is one of the very best technical writers in the entire computer industry, and she was one of the inner circle of experts who designed and standardized the Common Lisp Object System. This book is crystal clear, accurate, and comprehensive." 11:21:28 _deepfire: there is another one, which is just a intro to CLOS, with maths examples, "Common Lisp, Typing and Mathematics" 11:21:48 _deepfire: it's not a book though, just more or less an excerpt 11:22:02 _deepfire: 100 pages or so 11:22:54 _deepfire: i think i will get keene's book on hardcover, when i have money again 11:23:25 _deepfire: and some book about bootstrapping your own lisp would be good too 11:23:33 lol 11:23:35 right 11:25:19 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-245-211.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:39 kwinz3 [kwinz@d86-33-115-99.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 11:27:04 mrSpec: sbcl built without threads? 11:28:22 hmm I've downloaded it and compiled from sbcl.org, without extra parameters 11:28:52 default sbcl is without threads? 11:30:01 Any ideas if it's possible to have a type-specifier that specifies strings of a certain range of lengths? ..short of (or (string min-size) (string max-size)) 11:30:22 (and all the sizes between..) 11:31:02 lichtblau: do you have an old hemlock tree somewhere ? 11:32:51 Hun [~hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:34:40 antifuchs: can you tell me how you run git-cvsimport for sbcl? 11:35:30 A conversion that I've done has the right Author and AuthorDate, but Committer and CommitDate are "me and now", whereas your sbcl mirror has the behaviour I want 11:39:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-220-165.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:40:23 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 11:41:29 fe[nl]ix: not a repo, but I've just pushed the branches called "tabby-" back to gitorious. gitorious/master is also with tabs again since yesterday. 11:42:07 -!- kwinz3 [kwinz@d86-33-115-99.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:42:20 kwinz3 [kwinz@d86-33-115-99.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 11:43:43 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:44:31 unicode [~user@95.214.67.44] has joined #lisp 11:46:48 -!- kwinz3 [kwinz@d86-33-115-99.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Client Quit] 11:46:58 kwinz3 [kwinz@d86-33-115-99.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 11:49:20 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:52:01 blandest [~blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 11:55:26 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:52 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:41 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip72-204-42-139.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:59:06 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 12:00:07 Guthur [~Michael@host81-132-171-8.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:35 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:03:21 -!- [1]Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-8-183.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:02 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-245-211.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:59 Krystof: check out http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/vcs-gateway.git - it's the set of scripts & config files I use for sbcl 12:09:31 antifuchs, where are we going to meet? (how big is vienna? Will it matter much where I'll find accomodation?) 12:10:02 trittweiler: anything within post codes 1010 - 1100 should be fine, transportation-wise 12:10:21 vienna is the start of post codes? 12:10:22 smanek [~smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:28 we're going to meet in rathausstrasse 5, that's in the first district 12:10:34 isn't federalism great (: 12:11:01 err, "rathausstrasse 6" 12:11:09 noted down thanks 12:11:40 districts 8, 7, 9 are close by, and should be cheaper than 1 (: 12:13:02 what's the German word for district? Stadtteil? (you name your stadtteile by number?!) 12:13:28 kreis? 12:13:59 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 12:14:01 Bezirk 12:14:21 antifuchs: at what hour is the meeting ? 12:14:25 I guess it's related to public transportation? 12:14:58 jsnell, you come too? 12:15:05 we haven't figured that out yet 12:15:16 in vienna, it's bezirk 12:15:42 I suggest ~18:00. Or at least that's the earliest time I will probably make it :-) 12:16:23 not sure yet, since the date was moved :-/ have some other potential plans for the weekend of 27th 12:16:46 I'm sorry, it's because I have an exam on 19th 12:18:06 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.10.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:18:08 no problem, hadn't booked the tickets yet :-) go laziness 12:19:08 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-10-30.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:25 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.67.44] has left #lisp 12:30:29 antifuchs: hmp; your scripts look substantially the same as mine 12:31:33 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-170-209.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:31:34 Xof: perhaps the git you have is too old 12:31:39 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:31:40 or too new 12:36:56 -!- blandest [~blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:44:45 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 12:46:59 ah, no, I understand 12:49:33 HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:52:34 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:53:13 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:54:38 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:57:01 Xof: at least the committer names come from the author translations file in etc/ 12:59:27 yes, the problem was actually from a subsequent rebase 13:00:22 ah (: 13:00:40 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:22 sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:01:51 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-89-130.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:02:26 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-130.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 13:02:41 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:03:01 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:42 a-s [~user@2001:15c0:66a3:2:214:85ff:feea:c35a] has joined #lisp 13:09:26 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:10:42 smanek [~smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:29 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 13:21:30 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:22:59 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 13:26:31 jsfb [~jon@pool-96-231-114-178.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:10 -!- sepult is now known as dumber 13:28:08 blackened` [~blackened@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 13:28:18 -!- dumber is now known as sepult 13:29:05 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:27 -!- sepult is now known as observer` 13:30:35 -!- observer` is now known as sepult 13:31:43 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:37 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:56 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:45 *jsfb* is away: doing other things 13:37:17 wow, haven't seen one of those in a while. 13:37:21 jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-224-252.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:30 jsfb: please turn that off. 13:38:23 good. i was starting to think i'm alone being annoyed by that stuff. 13:38:45 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7555de.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:46 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:39:55 jdz: i seriously haven't seen that variety of irc etiquette failure in years 13:41:56 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:18 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:58 bobbysmith007 [~russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:10 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host81-132-171-8.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 13:49:55 wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:00 lichtblau: check http://gitorious.org/~sionescu/hemlock/sionescu-hemlock 13:50:28 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-61-164.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 13:50:49 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:42 anyone a user of elephant? I'm having trouble getting it to work 13:52:16 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:27 I tried following through a tutorial that used the cl-sql backend, but ran into errors, was advised that's not maintained and to use bdb or postmodern instead 13:53:06 tried to use bdb but got FFI related type errors, so upgraded sbcl and reinstalled elephant + dependencies using clbuild 13:53:48 tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:13 now calling open-store with the bdb backend throws memory fault errors, reaches a limit of 11 of them nested and gives up 13:55:12 this is with the version of bdb that the elephant package contains a script to install and build itself, 4.5 13:56:38 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 13:57:08 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.214.227.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 13:57:38 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.214.227.235] has joined #lisp 13:59:10 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lywydrvkusbdjmnw] has left #lisp 13:59:36 zackfr [~user@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 13:59:49 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@port-90207.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:59:52 -!- zackfr [~user@89.202.147.18] has quit [Client Quit] 14:00:24 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:03:09 fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:04:22 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:06:24 Alabaman [~badgerfac@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:59 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:07:29 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:08:40 ah well I'll find a way 'round, time to sleep 14:10:54 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:38 spacebat: considered using rucksack? 14:13:05 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:13:05 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:13:05 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:13:21 TDT [~dthole@dhcp80ff865b.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 14:15:08 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 14:16:46 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 14:21:53 spacebat: looks like you're using an elderly version of elephant 14:21:58 current ones use 4.7 or so 14:25:49 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.214.227.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:26:45 Crap! phython-mode for Emacs is broken for Python 3. OT, I know, but still... 14:27:03 -!- spiaggia` is now known as spiaggia 14:32:39 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:06 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-45-77.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:34:20 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ff1c9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:40 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:36:21 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.214.227.235] has joined #lisp 14:39:46 hugod [~hugod@207.96.182.162] has joined #lisp 14:42:33 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.214.227.235] has quit [Quit: `-`] 14:42:52 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.214.227.235] has joined #lisp 14:45:11 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:46:59 madsy [~madsy@ti0207a340-1056.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:48:36 UnwashedMeme [~nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:12 marcob [~user@host180-5-static.91-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:49:57 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 14:53:21 Xach: are you certain skippy handles the delay time right for animated gifs? 14:55:11 hefner: Relatively certain. 14:55:55 hefner: a lot of the wigflip toys rely on delay times and they seem to work ok for writing. 14:56:17 i haven't exercised reading a lot, but i haven't had problems. 14:57:17 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:17 I'll its right and my program is previewing at the wrong rate, then, except for the weird special case where a delay time of 1 is longer than one of 2. 14:58:24 (I'll *assume*) 14:58:44 what program is previewing? 14:59:23 spiaggia, that isn't surprising -- most Python stuff seems caught in the 2.x range 14:59:32 -!- silenius [~jl@2a01:238:e100:320:21f:c6ff:fed7:73bb] has quit [Quit: silenius] 14:59:54 Xach: I mean McPixel, which has a thread sitting in a loop calling sleep for each frame duration, and consistently animates much faster than the same image exported to gif and viewed in Firefox or Opera 15:00:19 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: .] 15:00:54 (I don't know how SBCL implements cl:sleep, but I know better than to expect linux sleep syscalls to be very precise for delays of a few tens of milliseconds) 15:01:03 hefner: ah, browsers do stuff i don't really understand to very small delay times. 15:02:13 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.214.227.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:04:39 gimp has a gif animation previewer that seems to be more in line with the file values 15:05:36 -!- cmeow [~cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has quit [Quit: Meow, meOUT!] 15:05:50 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:15 I see clock_getres(CLOCK_REALTIME, &res) and clock_gettime(). 15:06:31 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:06:48 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:06:55 cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 15:07:30 See also nanosleep(2) 15:07:39 Can anyone explain why (= (/ 1 10) .1d0) is NIL but (= 0 (- (/ 1 10) .1d0)) is T ? Am I just being bitten by floating point (even though .1 reads and writes as .1 reliably (sbcl btw) 15:07:40 -!- UnwashedMeme [~nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:07:46 pjb: is that directed at me? 15:08:27 Yes, but it may have the same problem as sleep(2) too, even if I'd expect it to be more precise. 15:09:02 pjb: SBCL uses nanosleep internally 15:09:12 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:28 Real time is harder :-) 15:09:55 ikki [~ikki@189.139.222.1] has joined #lisp 15:10:11 UnwashedMeme [~nathan@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 15:10:43 LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has joined #lisp 15:11:07 -!- marcob [~user@host180-5-static.91-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:11:51 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-132.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 15:13:01 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-45-77.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:16:42 JayK [~jakob@dslb-094-222-115-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:36 hello everybody 15:17:59 anybody around here who is familiar with SBCL-SAP handling? 15:19:29 JayK: i am a tiny bit familiar. what's up? 15:19:55 I want to access a foreign variable via CFFI and defcvar and so on 15:19:59 however all I get is nil 15:20:13 (get-var-pointer ...) gives me #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #XB5080864) 15:20:36 but (sb-sys:sap-ref-sap #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #XB5080864) 0) makes the NULL-pointer out of it 15:21:01 -!- karstensrage [~karstensr@c-71-202-243-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:21:03 (and sb-sys:sap-ref-sap is used by the functions defcvar creates to access the foreign variable) 15:21:27 JayK: what's the type of that variable ? 15:21:28 Is there a translation in CFFI from null pointers to nil? 15:21:59 pkhuong: no 15:22:14 well it should be translated into a lisp struct, in c it's a pointer and to track the issue down I told defcvar to have it as a :pointer 15:22:27 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.214.227.235] has joined #lisp 15:22:28 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 15:23:24 (the :pointer is of course not translated into a lisp struct, the variable value is now the null-pointer) 15:23:33 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-2-94.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:24:02 sry for that disinformation ;) 15:25:22 carlocci [~nes@93.37.203.115] has joined #lisp 15:25:22 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 15:25:37 -!- Hun [~hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:59 Pocket [~Pocket@p1048-ipbf3309hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:26:00 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:42 for the curious, bobbysmith007 figured it out, it was due to *read-default-float-format* being 'single-float 15:27:43 and in single-float land, (/ 1 10) => 0.1000000000009342 15:27:48 or some such 15:28:48 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:28:50 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-240-213.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:29:24 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:37 I don't know, but might this be an error in sbcl? 15:35:21 JayK: I doubt that. more likely you don't understand well how to use CFFI 15:36:03 blandest [~blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 15:36:06 JayK: try (foreign-slot-value (get-var-pointer ) ) 15:36:13 -!- blandest [~blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:22 very possible. I don't mess around with it for that long 15:36:27 -!- tobetchi [~tobetchi@p923e60.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:36:33 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:38:24 well I might access the foreign struct data that way I know and it works, but I want to write lisp wrappers for the foreign types I deal with 15:38:53 I've got a slot in an object that is of the same foreign type as the variable should be 15:38:57 and it works fine there 15:39:55 the foreign structs are part of a queue implementation, with the struct being accessed the head's one 15:39:59 tobetchi [~tobetchi@p296b0a.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:40:13 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:40:27 that means it contains the pointer to the first element at the beginning 15:40:51 my type translator converts the pointers to the actual objects behind there, represented as lisp objects 15:40:54 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 15:41:17 -!- stoop [~stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:17 as told, it works fine, but for this global variable I'm trying to access 15:42:27 bobbysmith007, using (= (/ 1 10.0) 0.1) works regardless of *read-default-float-format* integer division maintains a rational representation I think 15:42:39 I think you shouldn't need get-var-pointer or low-level sap stuff just to read the variable of a variable. 15:42:52 Of course, if you're writing a fancy type translator, things might be different. 15:43:10 Could the issue be with your type translator, not the plain variable? 15:43:44 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:44:19 jsfb: 0.1d0 I think the "d0" changes things 15:45:06 well, it works in another place of the code where I dont't deal with a global variable but with the queue-head as a foreign struct-member 15:45:28 i'm going to double check the types in the c-header files 15:46:40 -!- DeusExPikachu [~DeusExPik@pool-141-157-41-127.balt.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:47:10 -!- guaq [gua@82-128-221-166-Karjasilta-TR1.suomi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:47:30 ryepup, mixing types always risks math gotchas, a rational compared with a float for example, his statement fails even when (= (/ 1 10) 0.1) is used 15:48:32 jsfb: right. until we figured out we were mixing types it was a bit confusing 15:48:55 that's all I wuz sayin' :) 15:51:11 this is part of the struct typedef where my translator works: 15:51:12 typedef struct ag_display { ... struct ag_windowq windows; ... } 15:51:12 and thats the variable where it doesn't work: 15:51:12 extern DECLSPEC struct ag_objectq agTimeoutObjQ; 15:51:34 ag_windowq and ag_objectq are practically identical in terms of memory layout 15:52:30 brown [~user@2620:0:1003:1000:216:e6ff:fed5:8b75] has joined #lisp 15:52:44 the difference is only important if one interprets the data their pointers are directed at 15:52:56 but with the global variable I don't even get that far 15:53:00 -!- brown is now known as Guest25042 15:53:10 -!- Guest25042 is now known as reb 15:54:27 -!- Pocket [~Pocket@p1048-ipbf3309hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Bye..] 15:54:35 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:55:12 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:55:36 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@246.250.48.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: lukego] 15:59:06 hmm with (convert-from-foreign (get-var-pointer '*the-global-var*) 'my-type) I get what I want... 15:59:13 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:59:17 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.183] has quit [Quit: off.] 16:01:30 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:32 lukego [~lukegorri@246.250.48.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 16:04:38 DrunkTomato [~DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 16:08:55 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Am I missing an eyebrow?] 16:09:05 ok I think I figured it out 16:09:42 (= (/ 1 10) 0.1r0) ; only in my sbcl tree 16:09:52 it's really a problem with my type translator, it expects the foreign data to be a pointer to the struct 16:11:43 the other case where my translator is working, deals with a cffi-grovelled structure, there the slot has another cffi-type, that's why I get the pointer to what I want if I do foreign-slot-value 16:11:50 never heard of the float precision of 1r0, but (= (float (/ 1 10) 1d0) 0.1d0) works in any of them I think 16:11:51 and thus my translator works there 16:12:50 jsfb: that's Xof's customised reader with a rational float format. 16:13:00 ic 16:13:33 danichou [dprudhomme@tranche.enseirb.fr] has joined #lisp 16:13:43 salut 16:13:51 ya qqn? 16:14:14 JayK: are you using cffi-grovel ? 16:14:21 yes 16:14:21 hi 16:14:22 -!- mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:14:36 danichou: please stick to english, and stay on topic. 16:14:39 may someone tell me how to create a while in lisp? 16:14:48 maybe spiaggia can tell you 16:15:18 marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.60] has joined #lisp 16:15:39 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:15:42 who is spiaggia? 16:15:44 danichou: (loop while do (progn )), see loop in the hyperspec 16:15:48 beach. 16:15:52 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:58 ok thanks 16:17:29 the progn bit is optional 16:17:31 ok I'll dig into my pointer/no-pointer issue, thx everybody 16:18:03 blonguechaud [blonguecha@tranche.enseirb.fr] has joined #lisp 16:18:30 hi blonguechaud 16:18:37 right, I assumed he/she wants to have multiple forms 16:18:40 do you need some help? 16:18:50 JayK: even then. 16:19:25 ah right... cool, didn't know that ;P 16:21:25 danichou: Take a look at http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 16:22:52 -!- yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:24:41 yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 16:25:26 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:25:28 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-130.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:54 -!- Fufie [~poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:25:56 gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:34 ejs [~eugen@48-33-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:55 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:29:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-75-128.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:19 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:46 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Input/output error] 16:30:46 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:29 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:58 thanks 16:32:03 your site is very useful 16:32:33 minion: logs 16:32:33 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 16:32:44 leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:33:01 the turtle gif is awesome. 16:33:49 *gigamonkey* does love writing simple compilers in CL 16:33:58 Xach: turtle gif? 16:34:28 http://ahefner.livejournal.com/17723.html 16:35:13 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:35:53 "maximally frustrating color sliders" ;-) 16:36:14 awesome indeed 16:36:22 Zephyrus [~emanuele@zephyrus.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:22 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@zephyrus.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:36:22 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:36:41 if only hefner had used my colour picker 16:36:50 it would be less frustrating but much more confusing 16:38:02 -!- ClaudiaS [~user@mail2.siscog.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:19 *blink* 16:42:45 am I reading this right? Someone on sbcl-help wants a bigger ARRAY-TOTAL-SIZE-LIMIT than 1152921504606846973 16:42:49 tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:42:57 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 16:43:01 -!- LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:43:07 welcome to the wonderful world of 64bit support (: 16:43:42 I suppose with nyef / pkhuong's work, they can get another factor of four or so 16:43:52 the next task will be finding enough atoms for their computer 16:44:01 not really 16:44:09 LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has joined #lisp 16:44:11 that number is about 2^60 16:44:20 it's still 'small enough' :) 16:44:37 -!- a-s [~user@2001:15c0:66a3:2:214:85ff:feea:c35a] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:40 although I wonder what they are indexing in this array 16:44:58 anyone happens to know a circuit simulator written in lisp? 16:45:08 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:45:31 this should be enough even for bit-vectors 16:45:35 leo2007: cl-rlc ? (very simple circuits) 16:45:55 koollman: I am assuming a terrestrial computer 16:46:11 koollman: oh yeah I found that one in cliki. but it is far too simple :( 16:46:17 I'd be happy to hear that sbcl-help denizens are actually asking for support for their galactic computing machine 16:46:32 I'd like to know about the details of signal handling, though 16:48:10 Xof: it's just a zettabyte (1000 EB, 10^6 PB). you can find that on earth. it's about the total data storage existing this year, from some estimations. 16:48:12 -!- danichou [dprudhomme@tranche.enseirb.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:19 they are merely using earth, not galactic yet ;) 16:48:27 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:37 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:49:00 Xof: what do you think about applying the patch for https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/496249 this cycle? 16:49:14 froydnj: oo, yes 16:49:17 -!- LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:49:21 milanj [~milan@91.150.120.114] has joined #lisp 16:50:16 koollman: you're quite right; my back-of-the-mental-envelope estimation got confused between powers of 2 and 10 16:50:17 LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has joined #lisp 16:50:23 Xof: Thre's no platform that we support that has that much virtual address space. 16:50:28 -!- Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has left #lisp 16:50:31 Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 16:50:35 gah C-w 16:50:41 pkhuong: I know that, you know that 16:50:44 Xof: I'm still interested in 'what the hell do they need this for' ;) 16:50:47 sbcl-help does not know that :-) 16:51:04 koollman: nothing, most likely. See above. 16:51:06 -!- kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:51:23 -!- HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:51:44 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:52:31 kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has joined #lisp 16:52:47 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:53:51 -!- blonguechaud [blonguecha@tranche.enseirb.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:24 foom: maybe a shallow-dynamic-extent declaration. 16:58:01 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:58:07 ace4016 [ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:22 that sounds much more interesting to me than nerfing dynamic-extent, especially since the code still isn't correct. 17:00:55 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:01:39 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.178.138] has joined #lisp 17:01:58 -!- LukeL_ 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has joined #lisp 17:11:52 fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has joined #lisp 17:14:29 -!- LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:14:34 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:41 LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has joined #lisp 17:15:50 redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:16:09 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:18:39 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:20:49 -!- LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:21:16 fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has joined #lisp 17:21:59 LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has joined #lisp 17:24:01 Fufie [~innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:15 Is the unbound marker just some special object that's checked for in symbol-value, or is it actual an object which evaluates to an error? 17:25:56 -!- LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has quit [Client Quit] 17:26:53 tcr: the former 17:27:17 it shouldn't exist outside symbol-frobbing VOPs 17:27:22 ok 17:29:06 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 17:29:17 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 17:29:39 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:01 kami` [~user@p5B20F0AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:01 -!- kami` [~user@p5B20F0AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:01 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 17:33:39 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:21 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:34:42 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 17:34:58 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:35:14 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 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timeout: 264 seconds] 18:26:49 fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:27:48 I am getting this from SBCL: "WARNING: Error calling finalizer #: # Memory fault at 12ff000 (pc=0x12ff000, sp=0xb79cad94) The integrity of this image is possibly compromised. Continuing with fingers crossed." 18:28:10 ouch 18:28:12 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-37-29.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:28:18 when loading from a core (a fork-then-save core if it matters) Is it to be expected? 18:28:31 -!- moocow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:55 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip72-204-42-139.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:12 *Xach* doesn't know, sorry 18:29:44 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-2-94.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:29:46 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:29:54 mrsolo [~mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-eygoscrquwissueg] has joined #lisp 18:30:03 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 18:30:09 smithzv: did you have one thread at the time of the fork? 18:30:12 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:30:25 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:30:31 Yep, refuses otherwise 18:30:53 stassats: I am using finalized objects to wrap C allocs for GC purposes 18:31:30 so, you're using ffi, that's an easy way to get memory faults 18:31:30 My guess is that this has something to do with it 18:32:02 moocow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:31 -!- moocow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:47 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 18:34:40 smithzv: is your finalizer fully reentrant? 18:34:43 Zephyrus__ [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:34:51 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:34:58 perhaps the relevant shared object is mapped at a different place after you restore the core and the finalizer is clueless about it? 18:35:27 cmm: yeah, sounds possible, just not sure how these things work under the hood really. 18:35:41 nah, scratch that, it's probably simpler: the foreign object that the finalizer finalizes is simply not allocated 18:35:59 Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:04 moocow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:13 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:36:33 drewc: not sure, usually I think of reentrant only with recursive code, what am I missing? 18:36:35 or it is allocated and another finalizer is created for it, but the old finalizer lingers, being part of the lisp heap and all 18:36:51 in short, Don't Do That 18:36:53 smithzv: what happens if you trigger a GC in a finalizer? 18:37:00 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-85-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:05 The core doesn't save foreign allocations. 18:37:14 drewc: I see 18:37:20 spoofy [~spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 18:37:21 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:37:21 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:37:53 smithzv: but it's likely you are just referencing objects that don't exist anymore, as cmm and pkhuong say 18:38:00 pkhuong: right... :( more thinking is required... 18:39:03 core restore knows enough magic to reopen dlopened stuff, but that's about where its smarts end 18:39:13 -!- LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:40:02 LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has joined #lisp 18:40:14 But if I just go through and reinitialize these broken foreign allocs should I expect these errors to come back and haunt me? 18:40:50 -!- LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has quit [Client Quit] 18:41:39 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:42:23 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6649cf-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 18:42:36 smithzv: the finalisers will probably still point to the wrong place. You'll have to cancel and re-register the finalisers. 18:42:52 smithzv: it really depends on what it is you are doing... your finalisers must be updated as welll to point to the new data. 18:42:57 Does it make sense to use finalizers for that kind of thing? 18:43:00 bah, what he said 18:43:02 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip72-204-42-139.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:43:03 LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has joined #lisp 18:43:13 pkhuong: drewc: Thanks 18:43:28 smithzv: you might want to look at *after-gc-hooks* rather than a finalizer... 18:43:59 drewc: how would that detect when a foreign allocation can be freed? 18:44:46 tcr: that's one of the main things they are for, actually 18:45:07 (cleaning up foreign stuff) 18:46:00 cmm: I only used finalizers as a debugging aid to emit warnings when something went unreachable which I thought I had deallocated 18:46:59 pkhuong: depending on the use pattern, the absence of an object from a weak structure of some sort and the presence of a pointer to foriegn data in another structure signals to a dangling reference to that pointer. 18:47:13 -!- DrunkTomato [~DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 18:47:17 signals a* , and not in the SIGNAL sense 18:47:32 drewc: that's pretty much how finalisers work in SBCL. 18:48:06 pkhuong: yeah, but *after-gc-hooks* has a major advantage 18:48:14 which is? 18:48:56 they are run when GC has finished, so functions pushed there are not going to be recursed into... right? 18:49:34 I don't understand. Finalisers are also run once GC has finished running. 18:49:58 oh are they? i thought they were run as part of the GC 18:50:40 well then, i'm talking out me arse 18:50:42 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 18:50:46 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:51:08 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:51:52 'morning 18:52:08 heya Fade 18:52:11 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 18:52:21 Heya, drewc 18:53:23 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:54:17 pkhuong: now that i think about it (and by think, i mean M-.) , i wasn't making any sense at all :P 18:55:00 pkhuong: how about "*after-gc-hooks* has the advantage that functions that live there will be called after the finalizers" 18:55:02 :P 18:55:53 -!- moocow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:09 -!- nareshov [~nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:56:58 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:04 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 18:58:22 moocow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:26 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@75-92-29-226.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:58:44 I somehow managed to make a buffer read only in emacs. I do I make it stop? 18:58:52 MissPiggy [~quantum@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:58:54 -!- MissPiggy [~quantum@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Changing host] 18:58:55 MissPiggy [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 18:59:13 save the buffer, kill it, open the file again 18:59:17 fractalis [~user@cpe-98-27-191-210.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:18 Lithos: C-x C-q 18:59:21 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:25 thanks 19:01:27 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:01:36 abhijitapte [~quassel@59.164.188.156] has joined #lisp 19:01:47 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:02:26 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:16 -!- abhijitapte [~quassel@59.164.188.156] has left #lisp 19:08:01 nostoi [~nostoi@180.Red-79-151-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:33 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.180] has joined #lisp 19:09:22 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:10:40 ephcon [~ephcon@student166-6.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 19:10:44 -!- LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 19:12:29 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-170-209.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:12:49 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:14:20 xokres [ola@d01-0124b.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #lisp 19:14:25 no 19:14:29 -!- xokres [ola@d01-0124b.kn.vutbr.cz] has left #lisp 19:15:43 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 19:16:17 -!- Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.17/2009122116]] 19:16:22 ejs [~eugen@92.49.255.246] has joined #lisp 19:16:47 gabnet [~gabnet@7.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:12 -!- fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:14 -!- moocow [~new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:27 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@131.104.16.182] has joined #lisp 19:21:53 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.178.138] has joined #lisp 19:22:01 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:23:13 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:52 -!- kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: kjbrock] 19:25:18 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:27:18 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 19:28:02 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 19:29:24 LukeL_ [nobody@CPE001cf0f641f7-CM000a7365ada2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:24 -!- LukeL_ [nobody@CPE001cf0f641f7-CM000a7365ada2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:29:24 LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has joined #lisp 19:30:57 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 19:34:02 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 19:34:48 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 19:35:49 fsl [~fsl@auf186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:35:54 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-030-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:38 -!- cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:37:51 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 19:38:06 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student166-6.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:38:40 cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 19:39:14 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legmbre 19:40:12 -!- legmbre is now known as legumbre 19:42:45 unicode [~user@95.214.91.182] has joined #lisp 19:44:21 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:44:21 moah [~gnu@dslb-188-100-156-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:31 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@office.sea.jambool.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:32 rswarbrick [rupert@194.66.250.208] has joined #lisp 19:47:05 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 19:48:09 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.178.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:48:23 -!- cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has quit [Quit: Meow, meOUT!] 19:48:41 cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 19:49:05 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:50:02 -!- Zephyrus__ is now known as Zephyrus 19:50:51 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:33 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-243-132.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:53:36 Bah everytime I want to hack on SBCL and think "Hey that won't be hard", I'm trapped in "Oh before I do this A, I really ought to cleanup B,C,,... first" 19:54:13 tcr: bah, clean up. 19:54:44 A healthy ratio is needed to maintain your interest anyway (: 19:55:23 tcr: i think wnewman felt the same way about CMUCL at one point... this is hopw history is made! 19:55:30 I know if I don't do the cleanup first, I won't do it because the threshold to do it too high. 19:56:02 often i want to work on something unrelated, then there's a bug in this library, another one in slime, and at the time i fix all those bugs i have no time to work on the original problem 19:56:11 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:13 Yeah I know that too :-) 19:56:19 work around and ship it. 19:56:29 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-204-191.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:17 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:20 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:30 yeah that's how sbcl feels :-) 19:58:55 *jsfb* is away: doing other things 19:59:21 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-181-46.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:59:30 jsfb: can you turn that off. 20:00:02 sorry, I'll see if I can find out how... 20:00:17 pkhuong: Interesting way of interpunctuation 20:00:34 tcr: quite intentional. 20:00:42 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip72-204-42-139.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:58 my mother had way of 'asking' questions just like that. 20:01:07 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 20:01:43 it's a distinctly motherly way, yeah 20:01:51 'can you be quiet!' was not a request... no matter how much my geeky little brain tried to catch her in a semantic argument :) 20:01:59 anton_v [~Miranda@93.125.49.66] has joined #lisp 20:02:14 Yes, we can 20:02:44 "you can't make me! when i grow up i'm going to be as loud as i want! on a boat! with a FERRET!" 20:03:13 :D 20:03:20 (three ferrets!) 20:03:48 "and i'm going to progam in lisp, so there!" :P 20:03:52 ephcon [~ephcon@32.178.71.105] has joined #lisp 20:04:24 20:04:44 and a little crying drewc :-) 20:05:38 otoh, drewc might have grown up in the 60s :-) 20:06:14 *drewc* is a child of the 80's through and through 20:06:40 a brief stint in the 70's early on though :) 20:06:45 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:07:54 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:08:08 -!- anton_v [~Miranda@93.125.49.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:12 actually, my mother was pretty smart about that sort of thing. "oh, he likes to make noise... send him to music lessons" 20:08:21 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@32.178.71.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:08:37 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:40 huh. you didn't get the ball gag. 20:08:42 that's weird. 20:09:37 to get back on topic; I am baffled by Fare's tendency of over-engineering... 20:09:52 mburrows [~mburrows@host86-128-230-9.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:57 can anyone wrap his head around the minutae of his asdf-output-locations proposal? 20:10:06 Fare often seems to be trying to solve a lot of problems in one fell swoop 20:10:08 tcr: soft eng degree, no? 20:10:40 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:11:18 his use cases differ in scale from mine though.. i've been there and seen the scale of the build issues he's trying to solve 20:11:19 Really? 20:13:05 oh yeah 20:13:14 I wonder if working on asdf won't in fact be the death of xcvb :-) If he really solves the distributor's dilemma 20:13:17 it was at a 20-30 minute build when I saw it 20:13:33 is this ITA stuff? 20:13:40 antifuchs: yeah, when i was building it, 'twas 30 minutes using sbcl 20:13:50 or what? 20:13:58 wedgeV [~wedge@adsl-69-232-197-2.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:05 and since i was working on low level macros, i had to rebuild it every half hour or so... 20:14:13 i constantly had a build going :) 20:15:31 guaqua: i'm actually not sure i'm allowed to be specific beyond 'i worked for a client of clozure associates in cambridge working on a large data driven system for the travel industry' due to NDA :) 20:15:55 heh 20:15:55 but the client was a TLA, too, right? (-: 20:15:59 fair enough :) 20:16:00 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229112232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:16:49 drewc, you get to write lisp professionally? 20:17:15 -!- cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:18 bjorkintosh: yes, almost exclusively for almost 5 years straight now. 20:17:19 -!- ivan_chernetsky [~ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:17:31 pretty damned cool! 20:17:38 it is (: 20:17:40 I'd be really interested in whether they regret their choice of language 20:17:46 sure beats working for a living 20:17:57 tcr: not at all no, AFAIK 20:18:25 athlon [~user@46-162-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:25 tcr: but keeping in mind that 'they' is a team made of former lisp companies 20:18:32 drewc, is it lisp all the way down, or do they run on something else? 20:18:47 does everything in the build happen in one lisp instance? 20:18:52 bjorkintosh: i'm not allowed to say for the system i worked on.... 20:19:09 and anything i can say is public knowledge 20:19:19 alright. 20:19:28 Hi! Can you help me? I want to create an array of objects? How can i do it? 20:19:31 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 20:19:37 clhs make-array 20:19:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_ar.htm 20:19:39 but ... is it satisfactorily fast? is that permitted to say? 20:19:43 athlon: read a book please! 20:19:56 bjorkintosh: lisp you mean? or the systems the write in it? 20:20:07 bjorkintosh: They also have a substantial part in java from what I know. Something like backend in CL, client in java 20:20:09 the whole thing. 20:20:13 bjorkintosh: you don't think lisp is slow do you? because that would a silly thought\, 20:20:17 ah okay. 20:20:23 drewc, not at all. 20:20:32 but it does kinda have a stigma for being slow... 20:20:39 tcr: the FE is Java (weinreb tells me they didn't find LoL in time) 20:20:47 (make-array 32 :element-type 'my-class) dont work... 20:20:48 fe? 20:20:54 kinda like the ugly cars from detroit. they are not ALL ugly, but one expects something of the sort from them. 20:20:55 bjorkintosh: no, it doesn't.... unless you are reading texts from the 70's 20:21:19 knobo` [~user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 20:21:33 bjorkintosh: if anything, CL has a reputation for speed... i suggest you change your sources of information.. people are lying to you and you are beleiving it! 20:21:50 Uhm 20:22:05 hah, i'm actually not. i'm reading winston's book and touretzky's right now to get up to speed, so to speak, on lisp. 20:22:17 i wouldn't be wasting my time this way if i thought it would crawl. 20:22:34 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-030-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:22:34 I wouldn't wonder if many other of the currently popular dynamic languages will be on par in a few years 20:22:56 tcr: well, in some cases it's not just a matter of writing a proper compiler and runtime 20:23:10 tcr: python is very dynamic, for example 20:23:26 compilers of popular dynamic languages tend to be of shit quality 20:23:30 athlon: the default element isn't of type MY-CLASS. You want either :initial-element or :initial-content. 20:23:33 drewc: Once people actively doing it, finding flaws, the language may change, too. 20:23:38 OTOH, i fully expect to see highly optimized and efficient Javascript environments soon enough. 20:24:03 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 20:24:03 tcr: very true. 20:24:09 drewc: the new spec seems to have been written with an eye toward performance. 20:24:13 drewc: Lua seems like a good contender from what I've superficially read 20:24:31 tcr: Lua is a fun little language, i used it prior to CL 20:25:07 nareshov [~nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has joined #lisp 20:25:56 a-s [~user@93.112.117.229] has joined #lisp 20:26:21 Today I read _Static Analyses for Syntax Objects_, that's very similiar to what my thoughts were circulating around; and it really made me aware that CL is 20 years out of the loop 20:26:30 google is working on a python compiler, from what I understand. 20:26:47 Fade: python jit: http://code.google.com/p/unladen-swallow/ 20:26:59 guaqua: *nod* 20:27:16 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@180.Red-79-151-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:27:19 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-248-135.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:30 tcr: how about kiczales's macros that reach out and touch somewhere ? 20:27:39 Yeah I read that too 20:28:01 pkhuong: the later kiczales stuff made me think that I want a compiler-with-mop, not a programmable programming language 20:28:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-8-183.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:09 my-class is a type of object wich i define using (defclass my-class 20:28:15 *drewc* agrees with TCR 20:28:40 pkhuong: but the shivers paper is somewhat of a middle ground 20:28:42 athlon: and the default element for arrays isn't of that type. 20:28:57 drewc: you should read _Static Analyses for Syntax Objects_ 20:29:25 tcr: right. Maybe some specialised partial evaluator for towers of interpreters would work too. 20:29:27 athlon: you create an array, and tell the compiler that your array holds values of type 'my-class, then you fail to insert values of that type into your array. 20:30:37 -!- knobo` [~user@90.149.4.182] has left #lisp 20:30:56 pkhuong: costanza has some papers on reflection in lisp that relate to your towers of interpreters.. interesting stuff 20:31:01 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:31:43 <_3b__> tcr: have you looked at the vpri fonc stuff? 20:31:57 No never heard of it _3b__ 20:32:01 Pointer? 20:32:30 so how to create an array with 32 instances of same object? 20:32:42 <_3b__> tcr: http://www.vpri.org/html/writings.php 20:33:15 -!- Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:25 athlon: if only there was some reference material available that specifies such things! 20:33:34 _3b__: Anything in particular? 20:33:37 clhs make-array 20:33:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_ar.htm 20:33:41 blimey! 20:33:52 <_3b__> trying to remember which were interesting... seems to be more than last time i looked 20:34:52 Anyway, I totally agree with Zhivago who said a few days ago that "CL is for fossils"; the CL community is almost totally directed into the past 20:35:08 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-056-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:42 Do I need to generate :initial-content for array? 20:36:10 tcr: what's so good about the future? 20:36:30 athlon: i don't know how you can know about initial-content and element-type, but yet somehow skip over the answer to your last question. 20:36:36 It's useful. I really want to start working on something fresher though (static types, separate compilation). CL is so heavy that it's hard to adapt and experiment with it. 20:36:50 (not that the past is exciting, but it's a known devil) 20:36:59 -!- lukjad007 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:37:19 ShadowChild [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 20:38:28 rpg [~rpg@fw.bryant.dunn.pcspeed.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:36 pkhuong: I like CL's optional "static-typing" property a lot, I'd really like to see that extended. 20:39:25 -!- nareshov [~nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:28 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:40:28 Static typing isn't that bad nowadays. Granted, I don't quite follow the idiomatic style in CL, but the overhead wouldn't be much, and it doubles as documentation. 20:40:31 <_3b__> tcr: i think http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2007008_steps.pdf is an overview 20:40:40 tcr: indeed, i'd like to be able to tell the compiler that i'm not going to be changing definitions, so please aggressively analyze my code 20:40:47 cmm: I don't like to think too much about future because it often gets me into a life-estimating, philosophical mode which ultimatively turns into a melancholic to depressing mood. :-) 20:41:12 tcr: see? :) 20:41:46 that's when you tell your brain to shut up and start hacking. 20:41:49 pkhuong: as long as static typing is optional, i think it's an incredibly useful tool that we do not exploit enough in lisp. 20:42:03 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:22 pkhuong: that said, i'm not willing to give up the ability to partially compile and run type-broken systems 20:42:28 cmm: Future is exciting if only think on the line of "What could be"; it's often you see status quo, and then imagine status quo+X and you realize that it actually could be you who makes X happen 20:42:41 drewc: so you're more looking for optionally dynamically typed systems! 20:42:41 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:46 anyways, I guess my problem with all the PL research that passes though my field of view is that half of it I don't understand and the half I do understand is obviously useless 20:42:50 pkhuong: heh, perhaps~ 20:42:51 ! 20:42:58 tcr: ok, so I don't understand why you think that most in the "CL community" are backwards looking 20:44:19 Krystof: They must because of legacy 20:44:40 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-204-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:44:43 pkhuong: static-by-default with a nice inference engine and the ability to turn off the type checker, i'd be happy with that. 20:44:44 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:44:48 legacy is something upon whose shoulders to stand to see farther into the future, no? 20:44:48 oh, you mean to maintain backwards-compatibility? 20:44:54 I claim that that's a strength 20:45:08 nareshov [~nareshov@203.92.53.96] has joined #lisp 20:45:11 if you can implement your ideas while maintaining backwards compatibility, it proves that they are not incompatible with practice 20:45:55 Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 20:45:57 ^^^ what he said, totally 20:46:19 providing toy implementations of things in languages that no-one has ever used, or as an unmaintained experimental branch somewhere, is a good first step that probably gets you a paper, but it's not a validation of your idea 20:46:35 *Krystof* sets up strawmen 20:46:37 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 20:46:51 *_3b__* thinks it is more a question of resources... you need a lot more to get a new language as nice as what we have 20:46:52 of course, that way is much harder 20:46:58 i could take either side in this one 20:47:10 drewc: think of what the government would want you to do! 20:47:11 Krystof: depends on what it is you want to validate. And of course, I don't see how maintaining backwards compatibility validates an idea either 20:47:28 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@131.104.16.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:47:41 HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:47:41 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-056-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:47:42 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-204-191.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:47:42 Krystof: i don't see how 'shut up and pay my taxes' is relevant :P 20:47:43 hi all 20:48:40 I have a cultural question: how do you english-speaking people pronounce "CL"? 20:48:46 pkhuong: it doesn't, of course; only use of the new stuff can, and proper double-blind controlled use of it too 20:48:56 nowhere_man: "Common Lisp" 20:49:10 indeed ;) 20:49:12 I only recently discovered that acronyms are not pronounced by saying their letters, in the english speaking world 20:49:21 -!- mburrows [~mburrows@host86-128-230-9.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49:27 nowhere_man: that is the very definition of an acronym. 20:49:28 nowhere_man: not entirely true 20:49:30 nowhere_man: That's not always true 20:49:45 the rot must have set in when "object-oriented programming" was invented and people developed tolerance for textually dispersed logic 20:49:51 *drewc* points to NAACP and PETA as examples 20:49:51 If I were really going to say that and not 'Common Lisp' I would pronounce it see-ell 20:49:51 cools [~user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:56 well, in the SICP videos, they say CuDeR for CDR 20:50:07 drewc: uh, I say peet-a for the second ;) 20:50:13 kencausey: exactly 20:50:20 oops, missed point 20:50:21 SCSI seems to be often pronounced as SCuSI 20:50:22 then the field went downhill by way of inventing more and more "paradigms" 20:50:27 I noticed that some people at ILC said the "Common" in "Common Lisp" very quickly and without emphasis, "commonLisp" 20:50:32 kencausey: you don't say NAKP though :P 20:50:37 whereas in French, we pretty much always say all letters 20:50:38 true 20:50:48 pkhuong: I suppose my claim is that implementing something in an existing language implementation that is used is a stronger demonstration than an implementation in a less-used thing 20:50:49 -!- HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:50:53 nowhere_man: not everywhere in the french-speaking world. 20:50:57 nowhere_man: ONU 20:51:02 SIDA 20:51:07 nowhere_man: according to some authority i don't remember, "acronym" applies only to initialized words that may be pronounced as a word. 20:51:18 CIA is not an acronym, but SCUBA is. 20:51:18 Dawgmatix [~dawgmatix@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:48 The OED does specify that an acronym is a *word*. 20:51:56 Xach: mmm, I think I also heard that somewhere 20:51:58 nowhere_man: FWIW, i have never met an english speaker who says "SEE-ELL-OH-ESS" for CLOS 20:52:10 I haven't said "Common Lisp" out loud very often, but I think it's more balanced in emphasis. 20:52:19 I expect CLOS to be pronounce clos, yeah 20:52:22 -!- athlon [~user@46-162-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:25 and MOP mop... 20:52:42 I've heard it pronounced as "see-los" 20:52:44 nowhere_man: however, i've heard both SEE-LOSS and KLOSS 20:53:01 cmm: west coast represent! 20:53:37 *drewc* has noticed geographical pronunciation preferences 20:53:40 drewc: could be, could be 20:53:42 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:53:44 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:21 "see-los" is punny in russian, so I like it 20:54:31 nowhere_man: i've also heard both "SEE-EMM-YOU-SEE-ELL" and kmuckle 20:54:42 SBCL and sbuckle 20:54:58 -!- lukego [~lukegorri@246.250.48.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: lukego] 20:54:59 sbuckle is quite hilarious 20:55:04 -!- pjb [~t@80.29.231.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:55:04 true 20:55:09 *kencausey* tends to be a speller until he hears more than one person agreeing on a pronunciation 20:55:18 (i have not heard sbuckle outside of Cambridge, MA) 20:55:24 kencausey: coward :-) 20:55:29 :) 20:55:38 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-100-156-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:56:33 nowhere_man: in the case of CDR, it was never an acronym... it's a mnemonic. 20:57:00 i don't know if that's relevant really. 20:57:13 *_3b__* thought it was an acronym of some pdp opcode 20:57:24 _3b__: not the pdp 20:57:28 ibm-some-number? 20:57:29 an ancient machine. 20:57:33 yeah. 20:57:34 ibm 709 IIRC 20:57:46 704 20:57:55 close 20:57:56 is there a well-supported commonly-used matrix algebra package? 20:58:02 i thought lisp was born on a sheet of paper. 20:58:08 georgia-pacific? 20:58:27 or college ruled? 20:58:41 bjorkintosh: lisp was conceived on a piece of paper, born on the 704 20:58:41 funny, because I expected something like CoL or Cal, which you could translate in Hebrew as voice or simple 20:58:57 Krystof: FWIW, I don't like the "ad-hoc extended schemes" presented in many papers, it doesn't show whether an idea scales 20:58:58 athlon [~user@46-162-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:55 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@adsl-71-142-225-118.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 20:59:58 Krystof: However, even if you stick something on top of SBCL, in the endeavor of doing so, you probably won't change existing code to make use of the new thing either; you'll try to define some common ground, and then build old stuff, and new stuff on top of that 21:00:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 21:00:58 I'm not sure if the ability to do so can be thought of a form of validation 21:01:17 _3b__: and more importantly for the history of CAR and CDR, the opcode was not called CAR or CDR, but CLA and CLD 21:01:40 djinni` [~djinni`@adsl-71-142-225-118.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:55 CDR is a mnemonic, not an acronynm, not ASM :) 21:02:01 You could just use (first) ^-^ 21:02:02 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@adsl-71-142-225-118.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:02:09 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:18 nixeagle: no... first is for lists 21:02:26 nixeagle: CAR is for CONSES 21:02:30 tcr: hmwell. Arguably the paper you've read makes that point 21:02:41 drewc: oh right ^-^ (car . cdr) 21:02:55 I do find myself using "new" (not really new, but new in CL terms) stuff in my own code, though 21:03:08 nixeagle: exactly. 21:03:53 djinni` [~djinni`@adsl-71-142-225-118.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:00 i use continuations and monads on a multithreaded network application.... all pretty 'new' stuff in CL terms... does that count? 21:04:13 no :P 21:04:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:04:43 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 21:04:54 layered-functions and classes, first class dynamic environments.... 21:05:01 i missed the continuations and monads in lisp memo 21:05:42 Dawgmatix: i'm sure you miss a lot 21:06:06 :) true - any pointers to what libraries youre using for those? 21:06:25 real lispers don't use other people's libraries! 21:06:27 are monads necessary in lisp? 21:06:31 Krystof: btw. I read your benchmark paper; I didn't understand how you performed the measurement, though it contained a paragraph in the introduction which came to myself a week before: 21:06:35 (or are they for writing papers?) 21:06:45 bjorkintosh: Mu. 21:07:04 Krystof: As they are test suites to test run-time behaviour of code, there should be benchmark suites that test the run-time performance of code. 21:07:26 Dawgmatix: http://paste.lisp.org/display/92830 21:07:39 Krystof: In fact, I started writing a defbenchmark library, which I want to plug into some of the graph libraries to produce pretty graphs displayed in the REPL -- for a start. 21:07:49 that is the start of what will eventually be released as "For The Web!" 21:08:08 -!- splittist [~bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-umbxlyrzgqrmhcsi] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:08:25 *Xach* groans 21:08:28 Dawgmatix: prior to that i use UCW 21:08:29 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:30 :) drewc 21:08:33 Krystof: something like (defbenchmark foo.1 ((n :from 1 :to 1000 :step 100) (m :from 100 :downto 10 :step 10)) ...body...) 21:08:40 minion: tell Dawgmatix about UCW 21:08:41 Dawgmatix: please see UCW: UnCommon Web is a Common Lisp web application development framework. http://www.cliki.net/UCW 21:08:54 Dawgmatix: UCW uses continuations (no monads) 21:09:08 i attended a talk of the vancouver lispers last year where you talked about ucw 21:09:12 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 21:09:40 Dawgmatix: cool! 21:09:48 Dawgmatix: i don't remember :( 21:09:56 *drewc* might have been drinking :P 21:10:06 hehe was a pretty cool talk :) 21:10:11 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:10:35 Krystof: When I understood your paper correctly, I could add to defbenchmark some kind of clause which classifies (and weighs) what properties the benchmark is supposed to measure; then with some statistics magic, ??? profit 21:10:44 Dawgmatix: also see http://common-lisp.net/~dcrampsie/continuations.html for a quick *unfinished* into to continuations that i plan to include as part of both the UCW and "For The Web!" documentation 21:10:57 s/into/intro 21:11:42 okay - is ftw all the way through your code or does it build on other things (like hunchentoot ..) 21:11:49 (ftw! does not focus on continuations like UCW... it's mean to be very simple and modular... the idea is that Xach might use it) 21:11:51 tcr: well, no, not really; the paper talks about detecting automatically which benchmarks exercise similar parts of the system 21:12:13 ftw! currently runs on the ucw-core platform, but a port to hunchentoot is likely. 21:12:26 i see :) 21:12:28 -!- kwinz3 [kwinz@d86-33-115-99.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:29 Krystof: there was some talk about weighing code components, or something like that; I didn't understand that part and thought you started with some manual weighted classification 21:13:03 ivan_chernetsky [~ivan@195.222.74.80] has joined #lisp 21:14:23 lisppaste: url? 21:14:23 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 21:14:26 -!- ivan_chernetsky [~ivan@195.222.74.80] has quit [Client Quit] 21:14:26 ah, no. The model is that your benchmark takes some fraction of its time f_1 in component of the system a_1 21:14:36 and fraction f_2 in component a_2, and so on 21:14:46 ichernetsky [~ivan@195.222.74.80] has joined #lisp 21:14:51 component like gc? 21:15:19 and the idea of the paper is to use historical benchmark data to infer clusters of benchmarks, and hence guess at components (yes, like gc or array access or the compiler) 21:15:25 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:15:36 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:39 how did you measure f_1 in the first place? 21:15:57 -!- MissPiggy [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:06 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:16:09 I didn't 21:16:10 I mean it's not simply "(time (benchmark-fun))" 21:16:33 it's like (track-component-timings (benchmark-fun))? 21:16:45 no, all I have is the total time for each run of each benchmark 21:17:07 ok 21:17:10 but I have the total time for each benchmark run in sbcl-0.8.1.1, and the total time for each benchmark in sbcl-0.8.1.2, and... 21:17:13 tcr: it's post-facto clustering, using measurements from multiple experiments. 21:17:33 and by looking at which benchmarks change their execution times at the same sbcl revision, I can infer that they share some things in common 21:17:54 do that for ~200 revisions, and some signal is visible above the noise 21:17:58 and then you look at the revision's changelog and see what component of sbcl was affected? 21:18:27 I think I generated those names of "components" by eyeballing the benchmark names in each cluster, actually 21:18:49 is there a link to this paper so we can follow along at home? 21:19:00 hence my utter wrongness over CLOS/methodcalls 21:19:12 http://doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/papers/elsw2004/benchmarks.ps 21:19:24 6 years ago! You ask me to remember details?! 21:19:27 Oh you were making fun of yourself on that irc session! 21:19:45 I often make fun of myself 21:19:47 That was way too subtle :-) 21:19:59 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@7.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:20:10 Krystof: oh that paper.. i think i read it 6 years ago... when i know absolutely nothing about the subject matter :) 21:20:13 mburrows [~mburrows@host86-128-230-9.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:14 knew* 21:20:31 (freud?) 21:20:40 -!- ichernetsky [~ivan@195.222.74.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:20:42 ichernetsky [~ivan@195.222.74.80] has joined #lisp 21:20:48 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-245-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 21:20:48 humbleness 21:22:41 soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 21:23:49 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:24:02 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:16 drewc: i only use web frameworks that win the arc challenge 21:25:20 Xach: i can draw it for sure, if you count tokens and not letters :P 21:26:22 Xach: the 'designing for Xach' mantra is 'you don't pay for features you don't use, so it's only as simple or complex as need be' 21:26:39 -!- soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has quit [Client Quit] 21:27:14 Xach is now a design target ? :) 21:28:26 Dawgmatix: i have a great respect for Xach, the software he writes, and the design choices he's made. 21:28:41 i'm the aunt tillie of cl! 21:28:50 :D 21:29:34 Dawgmatix: i know if FTW! is over engineered, CLOS and MOP heavy, full of boilerplate and code walkers, 21:29:47 like UCW is 21:30:10 Xach would not even look at it more than once... 21:30:16 :) 21:30:21 and neither would a lot of others 21:30:28 hmm :) 21:30:37 So, i aim high! 21:31:34 -!- ShadowChild is now known as lukjad007 21:31:43 i'm actually aiming more for 'a collection of useful libraries' than 'a framework' 21:31:45 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 21:32:12 dan_b said something about that, years ago 21:32:18 -!- athlon [~user@46-162-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:26 from memory, "you get one point for writing an application, two points for a framework, and ten for a library" 21:32:45 wise words 21:32:50 :) 21:33:08 100 for a library with a tutorial and documentation ;) 21:33:28 Dawgmatix: you must be new here 21:33:49 :P 21:34:48 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:35:22 :) 21:35:54 -!- mburrows [~mburrows@host86-128-230-9.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:37:18 imo, docstrings and well structured code > external documentation > (* tutorial tutorial), and the later two should probably be generated from or along with the source code and test suite :) 21:38:05 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:12 -!- 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http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.yahoo.com%2Fs%2Fap%2F20100131%2Fap_on_re_us%2Fus_death_cat_doctor&h=73a3f4a6f11b2d741b363b16075dce53 22:59:34 -!- hugod [~hugod@207.96.182.162] has quit [Quit: hugod] 23:00:25 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-241-39.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:08 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-181-46.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 23:02:33 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-75-128.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:03:54 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:57 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:04:12 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-12-99.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:05:52 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:06:14 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:07:28 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:08 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@adsl-69-232-197-2.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 23:11:19 xx7sinsx [~stephen@24-56-186-222.mo.warpdriveonline.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:37 -!- LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 23:13:05 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.91.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:43 -!- wasabi [~wasabi@nttkyo212187.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:15:03 slogg [~slogg@88-149-209-8.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 23:15:59 -!- davazp [~user@76.Red-88-25-186.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:18:25 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:19:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:52 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 23:21:05 Fare: I always assumed it referred to http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/000626 23:21:53 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@adsl-71-142-225-118.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 23:22:11 djinni` [~djinni`@adsl-71-142-225-118.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 23:24:14 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:11 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-146-224.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:16 Hello all. 23:25:33 nyef, we were discussing kittens of death. 23:25:38 Oh, goody. 23:25:43 housel, is bunbun a kitten? 23:25:53 looks like a rabbit 23:25:56 lol 23:25:58 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-204-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:26:03 bunbun is the rabbit 23:26:19 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 23:26:28 I see no kitten of death there 23:26:28 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-245-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 23:26:38 read a few strips forwards 23:26:51 You have to read through several comics (it's a fairly long story arc) 23:26:56 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.180] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:27:02 HET3 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 23:28:08 _Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-8-183.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:20 cools` [~user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:36 nareshov` [~nareshov@203.92.53.96] has joined #lisp 23:28:37 ysph` [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:39 konr`` [~user@201.82.133.89] has joined #lisp 23:29:09 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- konr` [~user@201.82.133.89] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-245-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- cools [~user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- HET4 [~diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- nareshov [~nareshov@203.92.53.96] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- lukjad007 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:09 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-210-8-183.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:29:22 (It's a horror movie parody; the gist is that "The Evil" is a litter of kittens spawned by satan, which will reduce to a mist of blood and gore anyone who fails to keep them fed) 23:30:36 -!- Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-245-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Client Quit] 23:31:07 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-245-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 23:31:14 nyef: so is that where it came from, or is "your kitten of death awaits" an independent invention? 23:31:21 Independent. 23:31:48 lose("CATS. CATS ARE NICE.\n"); 23:32:09 life justifies fiction after the fact. 23:32:17 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 23:32:20 LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has joined #lisp 23:32:35 -!- cools` [~user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:41 If anything, deathkitten was inspired by Pratchett, except that I don't actually -like- the discworld books. 23:32:55 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 23:32:57 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:05 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 23:33:37 lukjad007 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 23:34:18 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:34:39 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 23:34:46 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.38] has joined #lisp 23:34:52 So, I noticed something last weekend: SBCL is clearly not standard-compliant with respect to PATHNAME-HOST. (pathname-host #p"") doesn't return a valid pathname host. 23:35:27 b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 23:36:49 davazp [~user@76.Red-88-25-186.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:52 nyef: nobody seems to have noticed it before :) 23:36:54 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-235-66.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 23:37:25 Pocket [~pocket@p1048-ipbf3309hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:38:17 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 23:38:55 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-204-191.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:39:09 does anybody know of some library which would allow me to read, write and convert-to fixed-size binary types, like if i'd want to deal with 12 bit vectors/"types" 23:39:24 pr: binary-types, maybe? 23:39:54 So, what I'm thinking for the UNC filespec thing is to define the share as the device and the server as the host, representing the host as a list of the hostname-as-a-string, to distinguish it from a valid logical pathname host (which must be a string), and from the local machine (which can be distinguished as a zero-length list of strings). 23:40:43 Since only logical pathname hosts have a defined syntax for parsing pathnames, we can then use //server/share/ to parse to :host ("server") :device "share". 23:40:50 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-245-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:40:59 -!- Pocket [~pocket@p1048-ipbf3309hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 23:41:32 ccl returns :UNSPECIFIC for that pathname-host form. 23:43:24 That's possibly a valid interpretation. 23:44:30 I'm not sure how it all works out yet, but this is the direction I'm leaning towards. 23:44:46 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-204-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:17 heh, i was reading "Macros that Reach Out and Touch Somewhere" and thinking to myself "hrmm... this is almost like monads".. then i threw the idea way because _everything_ has looked like monads to me lately. 23:46:39 drewc: sounds right. 23:46:46 Does anyone know the command for droping to shell mode in emacs GNU 23? 23:46:47 sure enough, the conclusion mentions that it's like monads 23:47:00 So, the other thing that's bugging me right now is that SBCL doesn't build the assembler-routines before first genesis, which neatly complicates my plan for destroying x86oid-assem.S. 23:47:14 xx7sinsx: M-x shell 23:47:33 -!- wlr [~walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:42 wgl: Thank you 23:48:33 yw 23:48:50 -!- ysph` [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:49:19 LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-242-204.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:22 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:32 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50:53 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:00 nyef: regarding UNC spec, could we get logical-pathnames -> UNC with local C: as "\\.\C:"? 23:51:03 -!- mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 23:51:49 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:52:15 Not sure. 23:53:22 -!- HET3 is now known as HET2 23:54:13 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:54:28 I mean, CL kinda isn't limited to using DOS-compatible pathnames and logical pathnames serve as IMHO nice way to slip NT pathnames in 23:55:44 what are logical pathnames 23:56:06 clhs 19.3 23:56:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/19_c.htm 23:56:25 HET2: That's the section of the CLHS on the subject. 23:56:31 thanks 23:58:02 HET2: I can't decide if logical pathnames are awesome gift of god or rotten stuff to leave alone ;-) 23:58:27 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 23:59:07 *nyef* leans more towards awsome gift, but is aware of some of the rotten stuff that got mixed in. 23:59:39 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Quit: leaving]