00:01:25 -!- splittist [i=50a9827e@gateway/web/freenode/x-ohoyparudbejnusz] has quit ["Page closed"] 00:05:59 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:52 How evil/stupid/error-prone is (loop (interrupt-thread (random-elt (list-all-threads)) #'thread-yield) (sleep (random 1.0))) as a way to increase non-determinacy during testing of multi-threading stuff? 00:10:08 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 00:13:55 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:15:15 -!- housel [n=nnnuser@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:17:00 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-99-8-230-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:20:12 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.66.140] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:20:13 -!- tyr42 [n=tyr_god_@CPE0022b0b261a1-CM0012254318f6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 00:20:15 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.91.2"] 00:21:56 -!- moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:22:13 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:22:52 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:23:14 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:28:39 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-29-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:15 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:31:00 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-29-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:11 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:34:15 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:34:44 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@84.131.210.249] has quit [Client Quit] 00:36:03 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:36:45 -!- disturbance [i=ac@c-68-34-160-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:36:55 disturbance [i=ac@c-68-34-160-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:22 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:37:35 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 00:39:27 -!- bipt [i=bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:40:15 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 00:40:49 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:42:51 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:47 proun [n=proun@c-75-75-22-172.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:46 hi. im using hunchentoot and i need to change the session name. it says i need to "specialize the function", what does that mean? 00:45:55 http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/#session-cookie-name 00:46:31 proun: generic functions can be specialized for different classes of arguments. 00:46:43 proun: it's OOP. 00:47:14 yes, but the function takes my acceptor, i dont what to change that? 00:48:09 proun: What book are you using to learn CL? Have they covered CLOS yet? 00:48:44 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:51:14 proun: have you defined a subclass of ACCEPTOR? 00:53:36 gn all 00:54:34 -!- Blkt` [n=user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-248-40.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit ["Exams don't pass themselves..."] 00:55:05 -!- ysph [n=user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:55:06 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [] 00:57:31 -!- timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["laterz"] 00:57:38 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 00:59:31 -!- kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:00:27 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:01:52 -!- Draggor is now known as Bees 01:05:30 -!- gibranian1 [n=gibrania@88.238.46.60] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:05:33 -!- proun [n=proun@c-75-75-22-172.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:14:53 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 01:15:39 Purgatory [n=Oranguta@200.38.31.162.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:29 what ith lithp all about 01:16:39 kidth teath me all of the time about my lithp 01:16:49 ith thith a thupport group? 01:20:01 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.192.59] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 01:21:48 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 01:21:50 *p_l* puts purgatory on ignore 01:21:58 -!- Xach has set mode -b *!*@cable-85.28.78.5.coditel.net 01:21:58 My friend! I think this might interest you! Now that the Obama Nigger Tide is rapidly in retreat, the time for us to act is NOW! Tired of Niggers and their monkeyshines? Can't join the KKK because you are not White? This is Billy Mayes here with an amazing new website! Chimpout Forum! http://www.chimpout.com/forum Chimpout Forum welcomes anybody who hates niggers and isn't a nigger. Asian? No Problem! Jewish? We have J 01:21:58 ewish mods! Mexican? Bienvenido amigo! No matter what race you are, join us if you hate niggers! 01:22:00 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*=Oranguta@*.38.31.162.dsl.dyn.telnor.net 01:22:09 -!- Purgatory [n=Oranguta@200.38.31.162.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has quit [K-lined] 01:22:20 -!- Xach has set mode -b *!*=Oranguta@*.170.185.142.dsl.dyn.telnor.net 01:22:44 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*ranguta@*.telnor.net 01:24:03 -!- ASau` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:25:18 ASau` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 01:26:14 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:31:03 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["brb"] 01:33:33 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:54 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:54 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:54 -!- happycube [n=cpage@208.1.239.35] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:54 -!- anton [n=Miranda@93.125.49.66] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:54 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:54 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:54 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:54 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@174-17-22-62.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- aidalgol [i=aidan@69.61.15.114] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-183-115-128.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- vsync [n=vsync@BLISTER.QUADIUM.NET] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- Xach [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.235.181] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- codemonkeyx [n=codemonk@www.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- clop [n=jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-205-123-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.235] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@99.54.133.197] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- kloeri [i=kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- cpt_nemo [i=cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-209-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:55 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:34:57 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:01 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:40 Reddit: a good way to lose ones last vestiges of faith in humanity. 01:36:28 IRC: a good way to be reminded? 01:36:58 Xach [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 anton [n=Miranda@93.125.49.66] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 happycube [n=cpage@208.1.239.35] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 Phoodus [i=foo@174-17-22-62.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 aidalgol [i=aidan@69.61.15.114] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-183-115-128.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 vsync [n=vsync@BLISTER.QUADIUM.NET] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 TR2N [i=email@89.180.235.181] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 kloeri [i=kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 clop [n=jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 codemonkeyx [n=codemonk@www.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 retupmoca [n=retupmoc@99.54.133.197] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-205-123-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.235] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-209-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 cpt_nemo [i=cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 -!- irc.freenode.net has set mode +o Xach 01:37:13 caoliver: I thought it was 4chan that did it 01:37:14 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 01:37:33 or to be exact, /b/ 01:37:45 There are some islets of intelligence in #emacs, #scheme, and #lisp. 01:37:54 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:38:04 alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:10 caoliver: now, if you don't want to lose all your faith in humanity or *anything*, don't go to 4chan, and definitely don't go to /b/ 01:38:18 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-14-62.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:38:29 otoh, 4chan likes Scheme and Haskell and SICP... :P 01:38:44 Or Sick pee. 01:39:47 well, 4chan's /prog/ was one of the few places where a game *about* learning Lisp could be created... 01:39:55 pity that project never got finished 01:41:00 there's also one game that uses some dialect of Scheme to teach programming, with classroom-like game environment 01:46:59 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:49:57 jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-201.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:18 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:51:21 -!- rrice [n=rrice@63.81.0.20] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:54:35 Lithos [n=chatzill@DSLPool-net214-62.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:06 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 01:56:30 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-9-205.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:57:34 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441588.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:59:52 I wouldn't mind seeing some robotwars game that used a lisp dialect to control robots 02:00:03 -!- davazp [n=user@205.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:00:10 hmm. ponder. 02:00:49 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:00:54 maybe something a'la bzflag combat except with only AIs written in CL? :) 02:01:11 I was actually thinking of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_%281989_computer_game%29 02:01:13 except more modern 02:01:20 *dlowe* loved Omega 02:01:42 duck___ [n=duck@71.104.235.97] has joined #lisp 02:02:31 So you take that basic game. Instead of a budget, you have weight and energy constraints. Add a scheme dialect, maybe different kinds of vehicles than tanks. 02:03:07 and then you have a classroom type game where students can compete with each other to make tanks 02:03:07 -!- Tordek [i=tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-xmgvpeozpqpvamcu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:03:12 Tordek [i=tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-gqzlxpdlxfxqltel] has joined #lisp 02:03:42 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 02:05:01 I am new to lisp and am trying to use asdf with common lisp 02:05:20 I'm only able to call the asd files when I start slime from a certain directory 02:05:44 duck___: you need to push the directory with the asd files into asdf:*central-registry* 02:06:07 or symlink the asd files into a directory that's in there 02:06:09 gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.46.60] has joined #lisp 02:06:16 duck___: like (push "/home/dlowe/.sbcl/systems" asdf:*central-registry*) 02:06:21 yeah, or that 02:06:30 most likely both 02:06:34 dlowe: ok thanks,... will try that now 02:09:50 dlowe: nice game 02:10:32 yeah, I'm contemplating dropping my current project and actually writing it. 02:13:49 Is there something I need to do to be sure that my lisp environment has updated? 02:13:53 dlowe: I think I played a browser game similar to that. you control a little pathfinding robot and program it's motion 02:13:53 slime accepted the command 02:14:20 Adamant: yeah, I played it too. It was cool, but I'm thinking something that you could actually build on 02:14:36 but I still can't access the asd file 02:14:52 duck___: try ending the pathname of the directory with a / 02:15:02 dlowe: I did that 02:15:07 hmm. 02:15:23 what do you mean "Can't access the asd file"? 02:15:29 The strange thing is that the directory that currently works.. /home/duck/lisp_stuff/ 02:15:38 I commented that path out in asdf.lisp 02:15:48 so I have no idea why that is working at all 02:16:02 I'll paste the output and link 02:16:03 you edited asdf.lisp? uh oh. 02:16:15 :S whoops? 02:16:18 uh, asdf.lisp wasn't really meant to be edited for general use 02:16:26 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-rtnosrerojnieork] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:16:49 ok I'll download a fresh one 02:18:36 duck___: I think at this point, it's better for you to give more information about how you're using asdf and what implementation this is with... 02:19:32 sykopomp: Environment is Cygwin with Common Lisp 02:19:41 I want to implement asdf from slime 02:19:52 and also from within *.lisp files 02:19:58 duck___: you mean clisp? 02:20:09 housel [n=user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 02:20:56 yes 02:21:26 clisp is one implementation of Common Lisp 02:23:15 written in C, which is why it is called clisp 02:24:29 replacing the asdf.lisp file seems to have solved the problem 02:25:02 I installed clisp because clisp is available through cygwin's click-install 02:25:41 housel: is that true? 02:26:53 housel:  haven't heard of t ether :) 02:27:37 what happened to the dots? 02:28:38 that's my understanding, at least 02:29:13 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:30:52 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:31:48 stassats: i switched back from a virtual machine in which i didn't set my local keymap and used like a us default and i guess i got used to it a bit too much ;) 02:32:48 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 02:33:12 . . . 02:33:13 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:20 ok now  added them 02:33:33 oops forgot one more :) 02:33:37 anyway 02:34:03 i don't think clisp stands for lisp written in c, i'll check their homepage 02:34:22 -!- jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-201.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit ["leaving"] 02:34:55 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@174-17-22-62.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:38:08 it doesn't say explicitly (that I can find), but it is written in C and there is no other obvious reason why they would call it that 02:38:24 Common LISP? 02:38:33 So that it would alliterate with "cleats". 02:38:41 Just say "clisp cleats" ten times fast. 02:38:45 -!- Lithos [n=chatzill@DSLPool-net214-62.wctc.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:39:20 since nearly every newbie think clisp is the common lisp itself at first 02:41:11 there was another clisp, conversational lisp 02:41:23 housel: all i can find is this, http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/CLISP but i don't think that is a source to reference 02:42:29 stassats: ah, another experiment to make lisp infix 02:45:07 is "closure" in the computer science sense equivalent to "lexical closure"? 02:45:33 are there non-lexical closures? 02:45:52 if I knew that, i wouldn't be asking. 02:46:16 now slime starts to load the asd files, but then yields an error 02:46:25 are scheme and CL equivalent in terms of their lexical closure properties? 02:46:54 Yes. 02:47:15 OPEN: File #1=#p"/home/duck/asd_symlinks/package.lisp" does not exist 02:47:56 -!- ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-189-166.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:47:59 are they symlinks? 02:48:37 duck___: are you on windows? 02:48:50 yates: when you use lexically scoped variables... 02:50:00 rahul: what other types of variables are there? 02:50:10 or rather, how else can variables be scoped? 02:50:17 stassats: yes, dynamic closures exist 02:50:55 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 02:50:57 duck___: i recommend adding asd search in your init file instead of symlinks 02:51:22 yates: dynamic 02:51:56 drewc: what's the reason to call them closures? 02:52:04 stassats: a dynamic closure is basically a thread that shares the dynamic bindings that were active at the time of creation with the thread that created it 02:52:12 stassats: because they close over bindings 02:52:18 stassats: because they capture the dynamic environment 02:52:25 duck___: you can find on in cliki page of asdf, also in the comments part of here: http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/installing-sbcl-emacs-and-slime-on-windows-xp/ 02:52:30 ruediger [n=the-rued@188-23-189-166.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 02:52:53 stassats: Contextl has in implentation of dynamic environments that work with CL 02:52:58 i use them in my web framework. 02:53:08 comment: i am largely ignorant of it, but this language is damned fascinating! 02:53:12 I think interlisp supported dynamic closures 02:53:32 stassats: The full name is "lexical closure". 02:53:33 (you get backtracking for free by rebinding dynamic variables on each request) 02:54:17 ok then, i thought you were talking about cl special variables 02:54:17 -!- alexsuraci [n=AlexSura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:54:31 stassats: we are 02:54:47 or at least, I am 02:54:57 stassats: i am... you just need DYNAMIC-WIND 02:55:18 (to get dynamic closures using cl's special variables) 02:55:27 drewc: it's a bit difficult to implement dynamic closure with dynamic-wind, actually 02:55:48 duck___: btw, I recommend grabbing CCL - it might be harder to install/configure, but it works, from what I heard, better with SLIME. And unless you're willing to pay big money, you won't get better environment than Emacs+SLIME 02:55:52 because you need to know when bindings go out of scope as well 02:55:56 rahul: not really... check out the implementation in contextl 02:56:15 and you need to have them work correctly in a multithreaded system 02:56:34 one thread's modification has to be visible in the other thread 02:56:52 rahul: yawn... 02:57:08 rahul: someone else has thought of this, implemented it, and has released it. 02:57:09 i enjoyed his essay very much, but i did resent the repeated implication that old farts can't learn something new: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html 02:57:15 i am using it in production. 02:57:21 i hope he's wrong - i'm 52 02:57:23 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 02:57:41 yates: paul graham is wrong about a lot of things. 02:57:50 yates: while I appreciate his enthusiasm, I think pg is wrong on just about everything he posts 02:58:19 even the fundamental tenet that lisp is good for real, everyday programming problems? 02:58:30 does he say that? 02:58:46 i think that was the entire point of the essay, was it not? 02:58:59 drewc is also wrong about a lot of things. :) 02:58:59 yates: well, where he's right, he's not original :) 02:59:00 because he doesn't seem to believe it. He wrote an entire book on how lisp is not scheme, and then tried to write a lisp that was scheme... 02:59:10 He has difficulty in distinguishing fact from opinion. 02:59:13 Zhivago: this is true :) 02:59:48 hmm. 03:00:28 so should i continue in my learning endeavor, or give relegate myself to being a crusty old fart who can't learn anything new? 03:00:40 s/or give/or/ 03:00:50 yates: I would deny pg the pleasure and continue 03:00:51 pg has opinions that many people find disagreeable. 03:00:58 dlowe: ha 03:01:13 yates: do you want my opinion, Paul Grahams opinion, or rather what do you think? :P 03:01:31 Generally I find that most of the things he says have some merit if you don't try to take them literally. 03:01:50 his social commentary makes me cringe 03:02:20 well, perhaps i should just take the good and leave the questionable, then. 03:02:29 If you read his essays as if it's just some stoned kid talking to himself trying to 'figure shit out, man'... then it's an interesting take. 03:02:31 that's healthy advice anywhere 03:02:41 (incf drewc) 03:03:19 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:03:28 there's only one Gospel, and i have my own opinions about that too ;) 03:03:56 drewc: yes.. ??? 03:04:29 well, let me ask this: are people using cl (or any other lisp, for that matter) these days for real-world problms? 03:04:38 yates: oh, absolutely 03:04:47 as opposed to imaginary-world problems? 03:04:47 and i don't include compilers as "real-world". 03:04:54 some of us getting paid to do so >_> 03:04:58 rahul: yes, or educational benefit 03:05:00 yates: my company uses it all over the place :) 03:05:02 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:05:05 yates: I am not an academic... i work in boring old businesses 03:05:14 Some folk are doing webby things with it. 03:05:22 yates: http://matrix2.itasoftware.com/ :D 03:05:27 yates: if you get paid for making your compiler, that's real-world 03:05:28 hell, i didn't even go to school :) 03:05:30 I use Lisp to test PHP :P 03:05:38 I find it odd that you consider software to be an imaginary world 03:05:52 It tends to be complex though. 03:06:10 yates: are video games real or imaginary to you? 03:06:49 It depends on if you rotate the screen pi/2 radians. 03:07:01 rahul: do you deny that there are endeavors that have no application directly to the physical universe? 03:07:17 rahul: that's borderline... 03:07:19 nothing is real, everything is product of your imagination 03:07:31 "The Emperor's New Mind"? 03:07:33 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:07:40 yates:some of my recent projects have included claims management applications, trading systems and airline reservation software.... are those real enough? 03:07:52 drewc: definitely. cool - good to know. 03:07:58 Even those can get surprising. Number theory used to be an academic plaything, but it's now the foundation of most if not all PK crpyto systems. 03:08:18 yates: are electrons phyiscal? 03:08:19 caoliver: yes, i realized this was going to get slippery... 03:08:46 are complex numbers useless for real-world problems? 03:08:57 yates: go ask an EE 03:09:02 i r 1 03:09:05 no, they're actually very useful as lightweight 2d vectors. 03:09:24 specially when the lisp implementation doesn't box double-floats in complexes. 03:09:33 go figure, huh? 03:09:43 and then there's quaterions 03:09:50 eek 03:09:58 yates: there's a fair amount of "simulate the real world" going on in computer-land :P 03:10:09 but they're only imaginary-world if you think airplanes are fake 03:10:26 They aren't? ;-) 03:10:30 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@188-23-189-166.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:10:31 yates: just down the street from me there is a quantum computer in prototype... can you guess which language they use to interact with it? 03:10:34 and complex numbers are very useful in simulating the real world, as you know :P 03:10:43 drewc: cl? 03:11:06 yates: is quantum physics real world enough for ya? :P 03:11:08 fyi, i was playing devil's advocate with complex... 03:11:08 drewc: *Lisp? :D 03:11:24 drewc: How many qubits? 03:11:34 wasn't there a way off topic button somewhere :p 03:11:48 yates: ah.. sorry. another good example is nonEuclidian geometry. it was an academic plaything until it was useful in physics :P 03:11:50 gibranian: how is this offtopic? 03:12:01 caoliver: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Wave_Systems 03:12:07 topics are imaginary 03:12:17 I wasn't sure if they were vaporware or real. 03:12:34 caoliver: i've seen it run.... 03:12:38 the discussion is if something is real-world or not 03:12:56 is it a quantum computer? that's up for debate... it is, however, and analog computer. 03:13:05 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:13:10 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.226] has joined #lisp 03:13:23 drewc: are you using weblocks? 03:13:46 -!- Bees [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:13:51 yates: no. I am the maintainer of UCW and lisp on lines, and i'm currently working on a new framework. 03:15:01 drewc: wow. prolific. 03:15:08 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 03:15:25 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:28 drewc: I'm more interested in the PK implications, as a real breakthrough basically destroys all we have for auth and security infrastruction at present. 03:15:45 s/struction/structure/ 03:16:20 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rcmekvpnlwteiifh] has joined #lisp 03:16:46 caoliver: the field is fascinating... and the implications are scary yeah. I think we're a while away from actual useful technology myself, regardless of what d-wave says. 03:17:43 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 03:18:48 drewc: even though i still have a lot to learn about cl et alius lisp-related technologies, it seems that one of the hardest parts of using lisp for a web server-side application would be how to utilize the various (or create) "html widgets" such as the yui controls. is this true? 03:19:35 i was able to use jquery from lisp 03:19:38 yates: i'm not sure what you mean... if that's the hardest part, then it's pretty damn easy. 03:19:52 minion: parenscript? 03:19:53 parenscript: Parenscript is a translator from an extended subset of Common Lisp to JavaScript. http://www.cliki.net/parenscript 03:20:30 drewc: do you actually use parenscript? Isn't it better to just develop javascript natively in its own environment? 03:20:49 sykopomp: I find parenscript to be better 03:20:56 sykopomp: call me when javascript gets defmacro 03:21:20 timchen119 [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 03:21:20 drewc: hell, parenscript had me sold on lambda 03:21:31 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 03:21:34 drewc: I'm just wondering. defmacro may not be enough of an advantage if going through parenscript is too much of a hassle, you know? 03:21:35 Bees [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:05 in the end, what you debug is going to be javascript, not parenscript. 03:22:12 typing stuff like some_function(function(){10 lines of code},function(x,y){20 lines of code}); was maddening 03:22:32 so with parenscript you can write your client-side javascript in cl and translate it? 03:22:37 sykopomp: well, in the end what you debug is machine code.... 03:22:37 sykopomp: however, parenscript generates nice and readable javascript 03:22:47 on the server side? 03:22:55 drewc: you usually get debuggers in between that, though ;) 03:23:06 p_l: I've noticed that. That's quite nice. 03:23:08 yates: parenscript simply generates JavaScript - where do you use it, is your thing 03:23:19 sykopomp: indeed... and there are nice javascript debuggers. 03:23:28 sykopomp: also, (chain ....) macro is nice thing to have :) 03:23:35 sykopomp: it's not like translating to C.. javascript is an acceptable lisp. 03:23:47 p_l: chain? is that the parenscript substitute for dot notation? 03:24:00 drewc: it's a crappy scheme. 03:24:14 I'm not sure I would call that an acceptable lisp. 03:24:16 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:24:24 not to mention, there's that weird shit going on with bind() 03:24:35 (defjsfun debug (&rest args) (alert args)) <--- 90% of the debugging you should need. 03:25:09 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-17-208.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:25:39 sykopomp: no, it started out when previous dot notation went away and people liked to use JQuery :D 03:26:03 poet [n=poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 03:26:33 -!- bobrown [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:26:41 drewc: can you point me to an example (preferable one that is relatively powerful) of a site you've done in lisp? 03:27:33 yates: unfortunately, not really... most of the interesting stuff i've done is proprietary. 03:27:56 np 03:28:08 so you usually have something like (ps:ps (ps:chain ($ ".test") foo (bar "baz" '(a b c) ))) => "$('.test').foo.bar('baz', ['a', 'b', 'c']);" 03:28:15 -!- gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.46.60] has left #lisp 03:28:59 peterwang [n=user@61.148.61.82] has joined #lisp 03:29:25 yates: however, i can highly recommend the tools and toys at wigflip.com 03:29:38 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:30:20 yates: Xach made those using SBCL and Hunchentoot 03:30:42 (and a whole bunch of really cool libraries he wrote for the task) 03:32:03 dto2 [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:20 drewc: signbot is cool! 03:35:30 -!- poet [n=poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [SeaMonkey 2.0.2/20100105050904]"] 03:38:46 -!- anton [n=Miranda@93.125.49.66] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:41:39 -!- drwho [n=drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:41:59 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:46:02 -!- dto1 [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:46:47 what is the purpose of the colon in names, like "(defpackage :retro-games ..." 03:47:02 Specifies the keyword package. 03:48:13 do you mean it specifies a package? 03:48:47 QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:48:49 (defpackage :retro-games (:use :cl :cl-who :hunchentoot :parenscript)) 03:48:59 the keyword package of a symbol 03:49:24 yates: Here symbols are being used as names -- so only symbol-name is significant. 03:49:41 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 03:49:52 You could substitute "RETRO-GAMES" or #:retro-games or retro-games with little difference in semantics. 03:50:27 oh, so this is just a convention? 03:50:44 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 03:51:58 retro-games interns a symbol into the current package, :retro-games into the keyword package, #:retro doesn't intern at all, "RETRO-GAMES" screws modern mode up 03:53:21 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:15 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:55:50 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:58:22 Mezner [n=user@c-24-99-183-225.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:44 Question: Where might I find documentation for functions that can be used within emacs? 03:58:57 ysph [n=user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:58:58 in emacs 03:59:11 C-h f 03:59:31 or C-h a for appropos 03:59:51 Mezner: also, better to ask on #emacs 04:00:15 (not that i'm a topic polic) 04:00:16 well i wasn't sure if this was something common to all lisp 04:00:33 like "X functions are defined in documentation at Y location" 04:00:34 oh! 04:00:51 you mean documentation for _lisp_ functions inside emacs?!? 04:01:11 specifically because i'm looking for documentation on ansi-color-names-vector to see what other options might be available 04:01:18 Mezner: read the emacs lisp manual, and again all this is more on topic for #emacs 04:01:53 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-174.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 04:02:11 that's fair 04:02:12 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.226] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:02:15 thanks 04:05:34 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 04:07:07 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:07:49 -!- Mezner [n=user@c-24-99-183-225.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:11:35 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 04:13:33 the religious symbol that clisp uses offends me 04:14:12 the lambda offends some people, too 04:14:51 in order of recendence: relifious symbol (most offensive), middle-finger, lambda 04:16:36 Phoodus [i=foo@174-17-22-62.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:17 -!- Terminus1 is now known as Terminus 04:28:03 lpolzer__ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-229-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:59 Has anyone ever sandboxed CL? 04:29:42 Ralith: sandboxed in what way? 04:30:26 p_l: limit access to certain operations, e.g. network or file I/O 04:31:12 for a simple example, say I wanted to execute some code and be guaranteed that it could only access stdin/stdout 04:31:15 Ralith: I can do that, but you might not get meaningful errors from you implementation 04:31:23 ooh 04:31:25 that's probably okay. 04:31:26 though I can only do that for a whole process 04:31:27 details? 04:31:43 It is essentially impossible to standbox CL without implementation support or replacing the reader. 04:32:11 Ralith: I have general sandboxing on my laptop for all of the system, down to ACLs on ioctl() calls, I only miss ACLs on syscalls 04:32:21 You would need to then rewrite anything that can do symbol construction. 04:32:38 p_l: is that done with geordiesque methods? 04:32:44 i.e. unportably? 04:32:52 Hmm, and printing. 04:33:27 You pretty much need to have a co-operating implementation, even if that is CL-in-CL. 04:33:28 Ralith: it's linux-specific unfortunately - some systems have similar modules available, and there's possible new solution for linux. You could also portably do it by reusing QEMU and libvx 04:33:46 using libvx however would be close to actually implementing an OS :P 04:33:53 bobrown [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:55 yeah that is getting kind of ridiculous 04:34:09 Ralith: well, in theory you could simply pass calls to OS and filter them 04:34:15 ? 04:34:41 libvx just allows you to sandbox an execution space, kind of like user-space virtualization, without any kernel-mode support (kernel-mode traps to libvx) 04:35:03 QEMU would be necessary if you want to execute such code outside of x86-32 04:35:09 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@221.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 04:35:28 that is all much more overhead than I really want to deal with 04:35:41 Ralith: yes, but once made, it would work quite well 04:35:53 an SBCL-on-libvx would be an interesting tool 04:36:16 would be a pain to interact with it from the main lisp, too, it seems like 04:36:19 in theory, you could dump images that would work portably accross win32/linux/*bsd/macosx 04:36:50 except you might not be able to call system libraries, but that could be done too 04:39:20 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has joined #lisp 04:40:53 mbohun [n=mbohun@202.124.75.140] has joined #lisp 04:40:55 :/ 04:41:18 was hoping for something more along the lines of lua's ability to define execution environment 04:41:23 but I guess that would require impl support. 04:44:00 -!- lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-209-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:45:00 you run sbcl as init on a xen domain running linux.... sandboxed. 04:45:16 qemu would work too. 04:45:43 drewc: have you done that? 04:46:38 Ralith: you have to be extremely careful not to give abilities that would allow the code to break out of the sandbox 04:46:48 rahul: well, yes 04:46:50 and yet have enough abilities to do useful work 04:47:06 which no one has really gotten right yet 04:47:12 caoliver: not quite like that, no. No reason why it wouldn't work though. You'd connect to it via sockets (you'd have to setup the networking from within lisp). 04:47:28 probably works fine with Lua because there's a larger application around it that's not sandboxed 04:47:29 rahul: noone anywhere? 04:47:33 Ralith: or you can run the image on a system that has full-strength MAC system with low granularity, like I :D 04:47:35 well 04:47:37 Ralith: no one 04:47:41 rahul: that is basically the use case I am going for. 04:47:51 if i needed such functionality, i'd probably just implement a scheme 04:47:57 p_l: if only that were so pervasive :P 04:47:57 what drewc said 04:48:04 drewc: 'kay 04:48:24 (could be a LISP as well, but scheme is easy) 04:48:39 or... 04:48:43 ISLISP shouldn't be hard to implement, no? 04:48:45 still, equivalent of AppDomains from .NET would be nice, but that's among "implementation support" 04:48:55 an interpreter for CLISP's bytecode! 04:49:18 my ideal solution: (sb-sandbox:with-sandboxing ...) 04:49:18 bytecode is probably too low-level 04:49:28 you want to control access at the language level first 04:49:41 I always wanted a little scheme that would fit in a PC's boot rom. 04:49:48 Ralith: I'd love to have ability to bootstrap an entire image inside another 04:50:04 caoliver: I recall one that is probably smaller than many current BIOS'es 04:50:09 Ralith: start with the sacla code 04:50:21 minion: tell Ralith about sacla 04:50:22 Ralith: please see sacla: A partial (as of 2004) Common Lisp implementation written in Common Lisp by Yuji Minejima, under a BSD style license. http://www.cliki.net/sacla 04:50:28 ooh 04:50:28 caoliver: as in "small with complete execution environment" 04:50:29 neat. 04:50:58 Ralith: it's got a reader at least, which is a good start... i'm not sure if it interns into the host lisp at all though... 04:51:00 caoliver: developer's son used to write small games on it (it had some graphics support, i/o etc.) 04:51:04 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@14.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:51:12 p_l: which? I'm fiddling a bit with foof's chibi, but I suspect that's not the one. 04:51:30 caoliver: forth is a better fit for boot rooms and the like IMO. 04:51:41 (then you just need a scheme-in-forth) 04:51:50 As in Sun's old openboot. 04:51:52 caoliver: I can't find it now, it had some funky acronym name 04:52:09 drewc: thanks; will play with it. 04:52:09 caoliver: not so old - OpenFirmware is still used on both Sun and IBM 04:52:17 still, dissapointed that I can't just work in the one image; would be very convenient. 04:52:32 also on various other platforms that need full-strength firmware and aren't PC-compatible 04:52:48 And unfortunately, PC bioses still have no built in fun. 04:53:13 caoliver: http://stripedgazelle.org/joey/dreamos.html 04:53:13 Ralith: it would be at the expense of the 99.999% of times you don't need a sandbox.. sandboxing is expensive. 04:53:45 halting problem and all. 04:54:04 I vaguely remember that impl. 04:54:29 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.66.24.114] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:54:53 seems to have a recent release. fun! 04:55:47 What does sandboxing have to do with the halting problem? 04:57:58 Zhivago: you actually have to implement a sandbox, you cannot just attempt to scrub your input for 'unsafe' code. 04:58:18 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 04:58:29 which, i admit, has little to do with sandboxing. 04:58:51 Grumble. dreamos doesn't come up under qemu/kvm. Probably some real mode yuckiness. 04:58:57 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:01:34 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 05:01:48 Anyone pretty comfortable with ECL? 05:03:02 emitter coupled logic? 05:03:43 drewc: I think you might be confusing sandboxing with verification, at least with respect to the halting problem. 05:03:49 caoliver: Yep, had a few questions 05:04:23 lol, no - actually I just built and installed ECL from CVS, having trouble building an executable though - ECL is complaining that is unable to find include directory 05:04:29 Sorry. I'm not an EE. I just wasn't sure if I was lexing your abbrev correctly, 05:04:50 *ecl-include-directory* 05:05:00 I've been rick rolled. Grumble. 05:05:00 caoliver: haha 05:05:32 fractalis: why can't you just set it to directory from installation? 05:05:56 Zhivago: you're probably right actually... i'm not sure what i was trying to get at. 05:06:08 p_l: I don't know what it was set to 05:06:20 ruediger [n=the-rued@188-23-189-166.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 05:07:05 p_l: this is bizarre stuff. that scheme monitor has a VERY assembler like feel. 05:08:06 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:08:09 One moment, you're reading scheme, then next you get hit by asciiz, movb, and jz. 05:08:14 caoliver: because it was written in assembler and implements a Scheme VM (i.e. it uses various registers as "scheme registers" 05:08:37 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@188-23-189-166.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 05:09:00 I figured as much, but it's still odd-ish looking. 05:09:03 fractalis: On my system, *ecl-include-directories* should in theory point be #P"/usr/inlude/ecl/" 05:09:06 -point 05:09:37 fractalis: otoh, it's unset on mine and compilation didn't work completely, but I haven't been working with ECL lately (stupid rhyme) 05:10:54 p_l: on the other hand, I've been entertaining the thought of making some way to hack Atmel AVR other than the standard C based stuff. There may be ideas to steal here. 05:11:15 konr` [n=user@187.88.25.198] has joined #lisp 05:14:02 JonSmith [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:16 -!- QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:15:02 -!- cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["sleep"] 05:15:19 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 05:16:20 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:17:00 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 05:17:31 p_l: Thanks, I'll play around with it and check the mailing lists. 05:20:53 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441588.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 05:25:18 -!- konr [n=user@189.96.195.199] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:28:28 Demosthenes [n=demo@dhcp184-49-168-62.univ.buf.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:54 drwho [n=drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:52 -!- Harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-90-45.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 05:32:34 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:32:45 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 05:32:51 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-68-55-210-226.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:32:53 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:45 -!- mbohun [n=mbohun@202.124.75.140] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:38:47 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:43:07 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:43:28 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:43:36 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 05:44:40 p_l: So, I ended up building ECL again and just set ECLDIR to be the build/ directory and it seems to work now. For some reason, when I 'make install' and set the ECLDIR appropriately it doesn't end up being correct. 05:45:53 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 05:46:58 -!- Bees is now known as Draggor 05:47:14 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:47:14 -!- dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:48:16 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:48:47 mbohun [n=mbohun@202.124.75.140] has joined #lisp 05:49:24 -!- dto2 [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:50:16 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@66.112.249.238] has quit ["Server going down for physical relocation."] 05:54:35 weird 05:54:51 fractalis: try setting up ecl-include-directory and ecl-library-directory manually 05:55:39 balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-99-139-100-96.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:39 l4ndfo [n=l4ndfo@S0106002129a187e9.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:35 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:53 -!- dabd [n=user@a85-139-100-208.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:07:59 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-191-251.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:09:16 rmrf [n=rmrf@113.22.48.232] has joined #lisp 06:10:08 -!- rmrf [n=rmrf@113.22.48.232] has left #lisp 06:12:49 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:22:25 -!- Madsy^ [n=madman@ti0207a340-1181.bb.online.no] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 06:24:10 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:24:59 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:06 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 06:26:06 felideon [n=felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:33 -!- JonSmith [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 06:29:07 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:29:52 alexbobp [n=alex@66.112.249.238] has joined #lisp 06:30:03 -!- l4ndfo [n=l4ndfo@S0106002129a187e9.ed.shawcable.net] has quit ["leaving"] 06:38:03 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 06:38:08 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 06:41:50 -!- felideon [n=felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:42:03 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 06:44:15 ... lol. My exam tomorrow might require me to know Swing API in memory, without reference... 06:44:22 ... shit. *TODAY* 06:45:40 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:45:59 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 06:46:53 -!- duck___ [n=duck@71.104.235.97] has left #lisp 06:46:57 -!- drwho [n=drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:50:49 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 07:01:04 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-29-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:06 -!- parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:03:24 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:04:51 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:09:05 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 07:10:00 -!- mbohun [n=mbohun@202.124.75.140] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:10:46 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:10:47 ds_ [n=ds@adsl-75-17-57-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:13 -!- ds_ [n=ds@adsl-75-17-57-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:17:59 -!- konr` [n=user@187.88.25.198] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:18:27 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:21:17 Harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-90-45.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:21:19 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:21:34 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 07:24:00 konr [n=user@187.88.25.198] has joined #lisp 07:27:59 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:30:24 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:32:10 rares [n=rares@174-26-90-76.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:17 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-90-76.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 07:36:01 p_l: O.o 07:36:14 konr` [n=user@187.88.25.198] has joined #lisp 07:36:26 Ralith: exams from last three years required writing a Swing event handler, without reference 07:37:06 wtf kind of course is this 07:40:08 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:40:14 Algorithmic Problem Solving 07:40:31 I'm gonna write pseudocode and claim amnesia regarding Swing 07:40:40 or write CL and claim temporary insanity 07:40:54 ... no, temporary insanity would be if I actually wrote the thing in Java with Swing 07:41:01 ^^ 07:41:14 -!- konr [n=user@187.88.25.198] has left #lisp 07:41:17 but christ 07:41:26 -!- konr` [n=user@187.88.25.198] has left #lisp 07:41:31 an algorithms course depending on swing? 07:41:55 shit happens 07:42:02 at least I'm gonna have fun on AI part 07:43:46 what I'm scared of is the Adv. Psychology exam 07:43:51 why don't they even give you a reference? 07:43:57 I know nothing, I didn't turn in paperwork, it's *disaster* 07:44:07 Adamant: think how big the reference might be 07:44:42 p_l: then they either need get on the printers or adjust their expectations 07:45:41 p_l: well with the psyc I can help..lol 07:46:35 worst thing, I can't access previous psych. exams for some reason 07:47:23 -!- ysph [n=user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:52:54 konr` [n=user@187.88.102.65] has joined #lisp 07:53:03 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:55:09 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@221.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 07:59:44 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 08:03:40 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 08:04:10 NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-224-32.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:14 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-54-82-251-115-240.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:04:38 Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-15-218.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:09 tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.54] has joined #lisp 08:08:02 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-29-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:08:22 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:26 most courses this year I did not attend a single time :-) 08:09:16 tcr: some instructors have attendance requirements 08:09:25 at least here. 08:10:11 saw someone with a A in a class get it knocked down to a F after missing 10 classes :P 08:11:24 tcr: So, what did you waste your time doing instead? :) 08:12:01 Asking stupid questions here :-) 08:13:15 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.197.191] has joined #lisp 08:14:21 Time will show what the better time spend would have been 08:14:21 if i was 20 again, i wouldn't finish university... the first 2-3 years of math and sciences were useful, and the people i got to know. the rest, including the degree, was pretty useless in the following 10 years 08:14:24 -!- bitflip [n=user@ip98-184-186-177.tu.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:15:03 and my degree is not even CS... 08:15:27 I think it depends on who you get to worth with, where, and what. 08:15:32 but on the other hand, that i probably wouldn't have finished... :) 08:16:00 I'm just trying to get out the door right now. 08:16:28 if I got to work with a few folks I've seen I would be happy to do more academic stuff 08:16:33 assuming I could afford it 08:17:17 Zhivago: I wish I could say I wasted it on my own Lisp implementation :-) how is it coming along? 08:22:23 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:23:31 Hm I come to the belief that a testing framework should force its user to have to specify a docstring for their tests 08:23:31 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:24:49 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 08:25:00 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:26:46 dto1 [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:40 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:30:25 gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.46.60] has joined #lisp 08:31:44 can i arrange slime to run run-sbcl.sh if for using downloaded binary without installing 08:33:01 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:33:32 gibranian: have you tried C-u M-x slime 08:33:33 ? 08:33:58 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-99-139-100-96.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:34:56 jdz: i haven't setup slime yet :) 08:35:32 gibranian: maybe you should try lispbox or somesuch 08:35:33 gibranian, look for 'dwim-build-sbcl-command-line' at http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.environment;a=headblob;f=/emacs/dwim-init.el 08:38:41 fusss_ [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:38:41 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:38:43 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 08:39:32 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has joined #lisp 08:41:40 attila_lendvai: ok, i think that works for me, thanks 08:42:10 trebor_d` [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:47:35 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 08:57:57 -!- peterwang [n=user@61.148.61.82] has left #lisp 08:58:40 peterwang [n=user@122.227.189.156] has joined #lisp 08:58:49 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-102.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:01:22 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:01:46 jrockway_ [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 09:01:49 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:03:51 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:06:51 good morning 09:08:07 attila_lendvai: What features does stefil have to cope with threads? 09:08:16 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:08:53 Does it have some make-test-thread which registers threads per test, so you can kill all of them conveniently? 09:09:00 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:09:16 -!- addled [n=adl@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 09:09:24 tcr, nothing like that. patches are welcome, but patch hu.dwim.stefil if you decide 09:11:20 tcr, stefil ensures two kind of contexts for test runs: a single one for the whole run, and one for each test. i didn't consider how that interferes with threads, where to collect assertions in other threads, etc... currently a detached thread will not have the outermost context, so it'll be automatically created and returned when the toplevel test returns 09:11:41 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:12:00 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 09:13:29 threading tests are ok if they pass :-) but if they don't it would be nice if the test suite can avoid ensuing havoc 09:14:59 as some first thoughts, stefil should make sure that the global context of test invocation is delegated to new threads and that operations working on it are thread safe 09:15:18 but that would require one more dependency on bordeaux-threads or something 09:17:41 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:19:53 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 09:22:15 s-expr [n=user@62.97.78.20] has joined #lisp 09:22:16 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 09:24:50 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 09:28:43 moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 09:30:06 That reminds me, I should get back to pitching stefil here at work. :) 09:30:38 addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:49 luis, now with a single alexandria dependency! :) 09:31:42 ...although you want to load-system :hu.dwim.stefil+swank to get a bit more swank integration 09:32:10 with stock slime at least an *sldb-quit-restart* 09:33:33 Pitching SLIME is on my TODO list as well. :) 09:34:02 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:34:06 -!- gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.46.60] has left #lisp 09:35:26 heh 09:35:40 does not seem to be a good idea to add formats to condition-wait :-) 09:35:48 the portable pathnames feature of CL seems pretty cool 09:38:34 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 09:38:38 -!- Xantoz [n=hejhej@c-8bb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:38:39 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:38:40 Xantoz [n=hejhej@c-8bb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:38:40 -!- Legoolas [n=Legooola@cpc2-aztw14-0-0-cust554.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:38:42 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:45 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 09:38:45 -!- kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:38:47 heh 09:38:52 Legooolas [n=Legooola@cpc2-aztw14-0-0-cust554.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:39:24 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6B5BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:25 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6B5BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:40:31 yeah, pathnames rock 09:41:36 RaceCondition: but it can still be a handful ;-) 09:42:32 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@85.165.69.172] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:42:47 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:43:58 arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has joined #lisp 09:46:14 -!- bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:51 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:47:00 c|mell [n=cmell@host86-147-198-241.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:50:20 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:51:11 RaceCondition: actually, it is more-or-less compulsory to be rude about CL's pathnames, please revise your opinions accordingly 09:52:44 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 09:52:58 -!- hicx174 [n=hicx174@211.44.210.50] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:53:52 nah, let him try to use them for something useful first 09:54:01 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 09:54:18 then after the pain that entails, try porting it to a different lisp and see if it still works 09:54:34 I think that they're not bad as long as you stick to logical pathnames and use them as a virtual lisp file-system. 09:54:47 Rather than trying to access non-lisp files. 09:54:50 a virtual lisp file-system isn't very interesting 09:54:55 -!- spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:55:17 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229177175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:55:21 Well, for other uses you have namestrings like everyone else in the universe uses. :) 09:56:03 CL namestrings? 09:57:14 or "native" namestrings? 09:57:48 Native, like everyone else uses. 09:58:46 In case it's not clear, I was joking. I've made fairly extensive use of CL pathnames (logical where appropriate, but often not), and theyre fine 09:59:11 they are the devil, they should be hung, shot, stabbed, and burnt 09:59:31 cow-orker [n=foobar@pogostick.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:14 In fact, I ended up writing stuff to do half of what they did in Perl (I suspect there are Perl modules that do this for you now) 10:00:59 half of what they do is readily expressed by simple string manipulation 10:01:11 the other half causes your program to break unpredictable and probably is best forgotten 10:02:01 but short of traveling back in time to assassinate whoever put them in the CL spec, I guess there isn't much to do about it. 10:02:27 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:02:57 I'm all out of Terminators, unfortunately. 10:03:09 hefner: or you could simply ignore their existence and be happy :) 10:03:21 Then he wouldn't be happy. 10:03:38 *p_l* would like to have a portable way to extend pathnames so he could use arbitrary "adapters", like hijacking (with-open-file etc. to use something different than filesystem 10:04:02 p_l: why not use gray streams for that? 10:04:08 Back to the old problem of "CL has lousy genericity". 10:04:26 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@dhcp184-49-168-62.univ.buf.wayport.net] has quit ["leaving"] 10:04:29 Gray streams don't allow you to hijack with-open-file. 10:04:43 You'd need open to be extensible. 10:04:55 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:05:35 Zhivago: that could be worked around with shadow 10:05:41 all open does is create a stream... why not just do that directly? 10:05:46 No it couldn't 10:05:52 p_l: Not portably. 10:06:11 p_l: you would need to make CL:OPEN not be CL:OPEN, which is very, very nonportable 10:06:16 drewc: Then you couldn't use with-open-file :) 10:06:17 Zhivago: So I can't write a defpackage form that imports with-open 10:06:21 argh 10:06:23 wrong key 10:06:38 You can do it if you replace the reader and rewrite symbols at that level. 10:06:42 Zhivago: fair enough, but why would we want to use with-open-file for anything but files? 10:06:45 Zhivago: I wasn't thinking of overriding CL:OPEN, actually, but overriding it only in my packages 10:06:49 rewriting with-open-file to my:with-open-file 10:06:57 Ok, that's fair enough. 10:07:01 p_l: with-open-file expands into cl:open not your-pkg:open 10:07:15 Yeah, but he can shadow with-open-file. 10:07:17 BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:31 Yes but it's not clear from what he said that he understands that 10:07:36 This is where CL really sucks. 10:07:40 Zhivago: that was the idea... eventually, I could try to override cl:open where possible... 10:07:40 Zhivago: that works, but you don't want to do it because getting macros like that right is hard 10:07:50 what will this shadowed OPEN return? 10:07:57 p_l: Sure, once you've rewritten half of CL. 10:08:15 He should just hack it into his favorite implementation 10:08:19 minion: advice on portable 10:08:19 #12017: It doesn't need to be portable, it just needs to work on your system. 10:08:27 drewc: the idea was that you'd get a "normal" stream as a result - the other side would be responsible for handling stream protocol 10:08:42 what other side? 10:08:45 Returning a gray-stream would be reasonable. 10:08:54 tcr: eh, sure. It's just a pipe dream for now, and I doubt I'll need it explicitly :-) 10:09:00 drewc: "adapter" 10:09:03 or again: why can't we just use gray streams 10:09:14 drewc: Again, see OPEN. 10:09:20 now i'm confused. 10:09:28 clhs open 10:09:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_open.htm 10:09:34 The point is to allow with-open-file, etc to open these naturally. 10:09:46 drewc: there are file-like things in Unix that are not really files, and would have to treated specially at the open level 10:09:51 Having OPEN updated to return gray-streams where appropriate would work nicely. 10:09:53 anyway, this goes into bag of thoughts entitled "I have exam @ 1500 and it requires memorization of Swing API despite being an exam on algorithms" 10:09:58 But you can't practically update OPEN. 10:10:42 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:10:45 it doesn't seem *that* objectionable to just write a new file I/O lib with its own API. 10:11:02 Yeah, that's essentially the solution -- don't use CL -- write another language on top. 10:11:19 like iolib? 10:11:21 I'm not sure writing a library counts as "another language on top" 10:11:23 Of course you won't be able to use anyone else's code. 10:11:24 but okay. 10:11:49 ...because patching analogous file operations is an insurmountable challenge? 10:11:59 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-105-135.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:12:05 Nothing insurmountable about implementing CL in CL. 10:12:10 drewc: probably. Come to think of it, I should look into that. 10:12:14 Particularly if you have nothing better to do. 10:12:23 Have a look at sacla. 10:12:28 O.o 10:13:06 http://homepage1.nifty.com/bmonkey/lisp/sacla/index-en.html 10:13:11 I know what sacla is 10:13:23 I have no idea what you are talking about. 10:13:27 sbcl implements cl in cl 10:13:28 Ralith: it really isn't that hard to implement your own file/pathname/stream stuff on top of CL, but people often like to make out it is 10:13:44 do they? 10:13:44 according to PCL, I have to use string streams to parse floats... is there no humane way to do that or PCL just uses that as a bumb example for IO? 10:13:47 dumb* 10:13:49 If you want to hook into things like with-open-file it is that hard. 10:13:51 tfb: so it seems. Wouldn't have expected Zhivago to be amongst them though O.o 10:14:00 Zhivago: I'm saying it's not that big a deal to just *not*. 10:14:43 It's stupid that you cannot 10:14:48 indeed 10:14:49 It depends on how well you want to compose with other people's code. 10:14:52 but it's not the end of the world 10:14:53 Zhivago: no, you write your own W-O-F in your own package. Which is a fiddly macro but not vastly fiddly (especially as you can nick the existing one in any open source implementation) 10:15:15 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-141-116.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:16 that's a lot of cruft for little gain 10:15:16 tfb: And then only code in your package will use it. 10:15:48 and you essentially play implementor; so I suggest to hack your favorite implementation instead, or have it hacked 10:15:54 Zhivago: unless you recompile the other packages with different package use lists, yes 10:16:00 and do what you want to do, to be a user 10:16:24 tfb: Unfortunately there is no way to automate that process. :) 10:16:45 Well, apart from replacing the reader. 10:17:11 Even that won't work 10:17:23 Zhivago: I made all that work. You just arrange life so that CL: does not refer to the original CL package 10:17:30 but yours 10:17:46 (which is a mildly nonportable hack) 10:17:53 tfb: And the caveat. :) 10:18:34 because hacking your implementation is portable? 10:19:17 Ralith: Embarrassingly "real-world" stuff is non-portable in CL 10:19:24 virtually no large CL program will be all portable code, so what 10:19:34 virtually no large C program is all portable coe 10:19:36 it occurs to me that a backwards-compatible CL-derivative could probably be specified that fixes many major problems, such as this 10:19:36 *Embarrassingly much 10:19:58 jtza8 [n=jtza8@41.208.192.3] has joined #lisp 10:20:10 I don't suppose there's any chance that ClTl3 will be that. 10:20:10 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-44-34.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:20:39 TR2N` [n=email@89.180.235.181] has joined #lisp 10:20:41 Ralith: yes, it could. But the standardisation costs are more than we can bear as a community 10:20:57 libraries can fill much of that void IMHO 10:21:01 tfb: doesn't have to be an ANSI standard to be widely accepted. 10:21:17 I did not mention ANSI 10:21:28 so, this is what I don't get 10:21:31 doesn't have to be an officially recognized standard* 10:21:36 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 10:21:36 Even something as small as being able to specify a package name remapping when compiling would do. 10:21:50 Scheme and Haskell can both revise their standards a fair amount 10:21:52 no, but it has to be *a* standard, and that costs money 10:21:58 why is it impossible for CL? 10:22:00 tfb: ...what? 10:22:09 Adamant: they have academic funding 10:22:18 and CL has fossils. 10:22:19 your tax dollars are paying for that 10:22:21 I fail to see what is preventing a group from coming together, writing something up, and sticking it online. 10:22:25 tfb: has the well run dry for CL? 10:22:26 money 10:22:32 why does that take money? 10:22:33 pay me, I will do it :-) 10:22:36 gladly! 10:22:40 similar happens all the time without money. 10:22:44 Ralith: Because it takes vaste amount of time 10:22:56 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:22:58 I'm not so sure about that. 10:23:03 tcr: that doesn't mean it's infeasible without funding. 10:23:04 Ralith: no it does not. *someone* is paying those people's salaries! 10:23:12 yes, their day jobs :P 10:23:20 someone is paying for Python, Perl, etc etc 10:23:23 some of which are academic, some of which are not. 10:23:25 surely I'm not the only one who likes CL enough to think it worth a little effort in and of itself. 10:23:49 Ralith: Writing is not the issue. You can only standardize on actual experience. This means you have to do first. Hence my pledge to hack your implementation, and collect experience. 10:24:05 good point. 10:24:14 the best standards are written after the fact, aren't they? 10:24:16 sure, it has to be based on actual implementation 10:24:18 And not only you, but a few people, so have data points to choose from 10:24:27 preferably several 10:24:30 once a good solution has been fought out in the real world. 10:24:47 okay, that's a good argument. 10:24:49 for example I have package-renaming stuff, other people have as well 10:25:03 but what then? 10:25:12 so now, if we sat down for some long time we could probably work out a standard 10:25:25 but the "sitting down and thinking for some long time" costs 10:25:55 Seriously, it comes down to funding 10:26:04 Ralith: There are other problems: Implementations may have to maintain two code bases; ansi cl, and cltl3 -- most seem to be fully busy doing the first. 10:26:34 more money :-) 10:26:35 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:26:52 moesenle_ [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 10:27:01 Indeed. Hopefully Ralith will see that point now. 10:27:20 but I am not entirely being sarcastic and negative here 10:27:25 Ralith: Notice that ANSI CL came into existence from state money, too. 10:27:28 I think it costs money 10:27:33 but it would be good to do 10:27:38 tcr: notice that Lisp was popular before that. 10:27:43 Ralith: No state money is burned for CL anymore. And private companies won't waste their time on it. 10:27:49 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.235.181] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:27:52 err money 10:27:55 so, ITA wouldn't care? 10:28:05 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 10:28:11 Why should they? They'd have to rewrite lots of code 10:28:26 -!- moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:28:34 so what, then? Is CL doomed to quirky old age unless some well-funded organization spontaneously decides to invest massively in a successor? 10:28:34 CL is essentially a dead-end. 10:28:49 Look to clojure and others for the future. 10:28:50 Ralith: Basically yeah 10:29:33 so where's clojure's money coming from? 10:29:57 clojure doesn't need money since it doesn't have a standard. 10:29:58 people like you 10:30:09 The coordination costs are low. 10:30:10 Rich Hickey needs money 10:30:32 Clojure's money is coming from Rich Hickey. Duh. 10:30:34 http://clojure.org/funding 10:31:50 The advantage that clojure has is that no-one knows what clojure is yet. 10:32:03 That makes it much easier to change things. 10:32:14 it's easy to change your CL implementation 10:32:34 personally I like CL and think I can use it in my future projects 10:33:10 Ralith: but, you know, time = money. So OSS and CL are definitely not a dead-end. 10:34:00 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 10:35:00 spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 10:35:19 it seems I would be had to believe otherwise. 10:35:45 Is a word missing there? 10:35:56 (I'm unable to parse that sentence) 10:36:07 it is kind of convoluted. 10:36:17 Oh could you rephrase it for me please? :-) 10:36:23 ^^ 10:36:32 "I am being told otherwise." 10:36:52 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:37:29 I think it's bizarre to say CL is a dead end 10:37:43 Ralith: don't listen to Zhivago. :) 10:37:47 however CL may be doing, it seems safe to say that lisp in one form or another remains undaunted. 10:37:48 there are *enormously* more active implementations than there were 15 or 20 years ago 10:37:58 Can CL evolve at this point? 10:38:07 yes, it *is* evolving 10:38:08 tfb: ...that's a very good point. 10:38:13 Where is it evolving? 10:38:23 Zhivago: libraries 10:38:26 and implementations 10:38:27 Look at all of the whining about how hard it is to change the standard above ... 10:38:36 adeht: that's the ecosystem 10:38:45 I wasn't aware we were discussing how to change the standard. 10:38:47 ericjames [n=ericjeld@dynamic-acs-24-144-129-154.zoominternet.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:51 I wasn't aware standards *could* be changed. 10:38:51 What defines CL? 10:38:57 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-44-34.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:38:57 there are a mass of *really useful* libraries now 10:39:00 superseded, perhaps. 10:39:01 tcr: the separation between libraries and language is artificial 10:39:05 Zhivago: It's absurd to say that after proposing Clojure as the way of the feature. 10:39:10 that just was not the case 15 years ago 10:39:16 *future 10:39:21 no it isn't, adeht. It would be nice if it were, but it isn't 10:39:22 luis: I said things like Clojure. 10:39:31 benny` [n=benny@i577A1BA3.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:39:32 seriously, I was there, things are really good now. Do not be negative! 10:39:38 luis: Languages which can build on the lessons of CL without being tied down to its mistakes. 10:39:59 there are things ("core language"?) which are harder to fix 10:40:14 tfb: it does seem important that they not remain unaddressed. 10:40:15 Could be worse. CL could be tied down to Java. :) 10:40:17 Do you seriously think that CL can escape from the trap of its standardization? 10:40:19 albeit not critical. 10:40:27 Personally, I don't think so. 10:40:33 I mean, seriously, when I started, CLOS was this barely-usable thing which some implementations had 10:40:36 That's completely separate to how popular the language is. 10:40:43 now there is portable MOP-compatibility 10:40:55 which some guy is maintaining 10:41:03 it is so much better than it was 10:41:14 Zhivago: yes I think it can 10:41:24 I will be glad to see it happen. 10:41:28 things being maintained by 'some (other) guy' is definitely awesome. :) 10:41:37 tfb: that's a matter of rising to meet the standardnot surpassing it. 10:41:40 luis: [tm] 10:41:41 well, actualy 10:41:45 I guess the MOP *is* surpassing it. 10:41:48 No MOP was never in the standard 10:41:50 so, nevermind. 10:41:51 precisely! 10:41:59 okay then. 10:42:08 but now, effectively, it is 10:42:09 *Ralith* is happy with that conclusion/example 10:42:16 Not being in the standard is a good thing. 10:42:20 which is very cool 10:42:24 it is indeed 10:42:26 It's the things that are in the standard that are essentially frozen. 10:42:33 And since there's so much of that ... 10:42:39 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:42:52 You can point to gray-streams as the success story there. 10:42:58 Not much else. 10:43:07 I think there's a lot of room for backwards-compatible (i.e. standard-compliant) extension 10:43:14 well, I think Gray streamrs have a number of bad problems 10:43:20 (witness simple streams) 10:43:29 minion: chant! 10:43:29 MORE LIBRARIES 10:43:32 Zhivago: I consider Common Lisp as a standard a huge success. 10:44:01 ah, you're this tfb not that tfb 10:44:03 hi, tfb 10:44:24 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 10:44:27 I have killed that tfb 10:44:57 Xof: hi 10:45:54 *tfb* must go and work, sorry. Anything is more interesting than beating crap out of yet another Unix box, sigh 10:45:55 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 10:48:08 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1B4A.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:48:40 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:49:30 Axius [n=oijhif@92.85.218.197] has joined #lisp 10:51:56 luis: CL changing, and OSS -- there's a caveat in there, too: To change "CL" meaningfully you have to spend years into acquiring a level of competence; after you have spent time into doing that, you'll probably come to a point in life where you start to lack the time. 10:52:48 lack the time, or will, to do it in your free time 10:52:56 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:53:09 -!- benny` is now known as benny 10:53:11 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:53:19 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 10:54:55 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:55:16 frodef [n=frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 10:57:02 unicode [n=user@95.214.31.115] has joined #lisp 10:59:35 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:00:30 -!- s-expr [n=user@62.97.78.20] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:00:50 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Client Quit] 11:01:46 -!- Axius [n=oijhif@92.85.218.197] has quit [Client Quit] 11:02:16 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:07:59 -!- spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:09:14 spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 11:10:58 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-68-55-210-226.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:10 btw, the "modify cl:open" thing partially was inspired by how I can load a package in ruby and suddenly open() opens URLs, including HTTP etc. 11:17:59 what if my filename looks like a URL? :) 11:18:22 tcr: nobody said it's easy :) 11:18:29 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:19:40 hefner: well, in theory, you can always put "file://" in front, but I agree :P 11:20:03 *p_l* just created a file that has #P"http://www.onet.pl" path :D 11:22:02 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:24:18 -!- ericjames [n=ericjeld@dynamic-acs-24-144-129-154.zoominternet.net] has left #lisp 11:26:05 p_l: so, name www.onet and type pl? 11:26:43 Ralith: kinda :P 11:26:47 it even fits :D 11:26:49 are CL projects/apps more often written compatibly across CL implementations or rather not? 11:27:12 RaceCondition: depends. I'd say there's bigger question of portability of FFI libs 11:27:29 madsy [n=madsy@ti0207a340-1159.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 11:27:30 if you are not using threading, there's higher chance of portability 11:27:36 the same with sockets 11:28:05 p_l: I'm reading PCL and it kinda puzzles me that they begin by teaching how to write a compatability layer on top of paths... it wonders me that CL implementations differ considerably... 11:29:10 so my question is why in the first place did implementations not follow previous ones and whether there is a reason for them not to try to remove those incompatibilities in the long run 11:29:11 RaceCondition: more like pathnames can be a pita and there are some issues with directories (I think with listing etc. but I'm not sure, I just load cl-fad) 11:29:57 OK, at least there are de facto standard libraries for those things? 11:29:58 p_l: you could redefine open as a generic function and create a new CLOS specializer for url schemas 11:30:25 nacerix [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has joined #lisp 11:30:49 RaceCondition: it's mostly stuff from outside ANSI that doesn't have good portability layers. If you aren't using impl.-specific code, only various common API libraries (like Bordeaux-Threads etc.), then your code should be fairly portable between various implementations, at least between CCL and SBCL and I guess ACL and LW 11:30:50 whoa, deja vu 11:30:53 Dodek: (open (make-instance 'file-path :namestring "./foo")) is kind of unwieldly, don't you think? 11:30:57 >_> 11:31:18 Ralith: so don't do that. 11:31:20 Ralith: >CLOS specializer 11:31:33 p_l: OK, but clisp? 11:31:42 -!- nacerix [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:31:50 Dodek: okay, so you can use strings for files but have to instantiate an object for URLs 11:31:59 still pretty bad 11:31:59 Ralith: >CLOS specializer :) 11:32:10 Ralith: you do realize that there is an (eql ...) specializer, right? 11:32:16 RaceCondition: lacks threading till last few versions. And the last one I gave up on it when it was running tests for several hours straight 11:32:19 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 11:32:26 Dodek: what do you plan to do with that? 11:32:32 Ralith: actually nothing 11:32:35 :P 11:32:39 nacerix [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has joined #lisp 11:32:44 but i can define more specializers 11:32:45 Ralith: there's an innovation called "functions" you can use to make that ugly (make-instance ...) call look a little nicer. Perhaps you've heard of them. 11:32:52 RaceCondition: clisp has quite a lot of implementation-specific stuff that is quite useful on Linux, but unfortunately, it's completely tied to clisp 11:32:53 p_l: OK, so anyway, it's not as bad as PCL makes it look? 11:33:09 and that's what i wanted to point out 11:33:12 hefner: it's much more awkward than passing a string, no matter how you fancy it up. 11:33:20 that specializing on argument types is not the only possible way in CLOS 11:33:32 Dodek: then what would you do? 11:33:40 RaceCondition: yeah, it's just that CL's pathname system was created in time where it was considered prudent to make something better that just passing strings around, thus complexity 11:33:49 i could define some kind of url-specializer 11:33:56 (open (url "http://whatever.com/foo.html")) is unwieldy? 11:34:22 that parses an url and decides which method to call 11:34:29 based on, for instance, url schema 11:34:38 Dodek: so you mean a function, not a specializer? 11:34:40 p_l: nah, the complexity is fine 11:34:48 I mean, it doesn't scare me 11:34:54 at least it's logical 11:34:56 hefner: perhaps not. 11:35:03 with puri, it'd be #u"http://..." 11:35:10 Ralith: (defmethod open ((url (schema-specializer :http)) ... ) 11:35:14 or something like that 11:35:31 adeht: I can't imagine why you'd hack the reader for something this trivial. 11:35:46 (I generally can't imagine why you'd hack the reader at all) 11:36:13 hefner: I seldomly use reader macros as well 11:37:08 with tcr's named-readtables, I suppose they'd be more acceptable 11:40:40 wasabi [n=wasabi@nttkyo212187.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:41:37 RaceCondition: for example, most people can nowadays get away with simply using forward slashes as directory separators and no drive names unless explicit on windows (#P"C:/1/2/3.txt" is okay). Except that wasn't true for people who wanted to have portable pathname system (especially taking into account "enterprise" environments back in 80s) 11:42:12 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rcmekvpnlwteiifh] has left #lisp 11:43:25 #P"SYS$USERS:[USERS.DEMO]" <--- an example physical path from one of the systems I'm connected to 11:43:48 and it's actually an overlay of three different paths 11:44:31 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 11:44:57 -!- wasabi [n=wasabi@nttkyo212187.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has left #lisp 11:45:37 p_l: huh. So I guess you're actually benifiting? 11:45:59 Ralith: kinda :) 11:46:09 only clisp works on that one ;-) 11:46:15 ECL might 11:46:22 SBCL port is a pipe dream of mine ;-) 11:46:59 p_l: what kind of system is that? 11:47:05 Dodek: VMS 11:47:10 -!- unicode [n=user@95.214.31.115] has quit ["leaving"] 11:47:33 TOPS-20 & VMS both share similar pathnames 11:47:45 well, "slightly" similar 11:48:29 and iiirc, the root directory of a filesystem was something like DEVICE:[000000] 11:48:43 sounds convoluted 11:50:02 heh... %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DISK$GEIN_SYS:[000000]*.*;* as input 11:50:19 -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation 11:50:28 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 11:50:49 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:51:05 pity my virtual machines with VMS 8.3 got killed by rampaging installer 11:51:45 Ralith: btw, AS/400 I think has weirder pathnames 11:52:16 oh? 11:52:37 MVS or it's new incarnation z/OS (with MVS mode) doesn't have pathnames 11:53:23 hmm... actually, AS/400 looks "normal" 11:53:28 except it's all in database... 11:54:06 and disk is part of memory address space 11:55:01 O.o 11:56:43 Ralith: when you have 128-bit address space, why not use it? 11:58:24 -!- Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-15-218.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:58:28 huh. 11:59:30 I'd like to see memory-addressed disk become more popular 11:59:40 I think it will be as we get into TB of RAM on workstations 12:00:00 Phoodus: I had seen another use of big address space - a Single Address Space OS spanning several machines 12:00:09 yep 12:00:18 while maintaining process separation and security 12:00:23 I haven't used a system like that, but I've read papers on their architecture, and I do like it 12:00:57 is there a single standard term for that sort of architecture? 12:01:31 (where memory is transparently persisted to disk, and anything on disk is addressable just through pointers/references) 12:02:09 dunno, but probably something around "persistence" :) 12:02:15 Phoodus: that's more-or-less how InterLisp worked 12:02:44 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:02:57 rswarbrick [n=rupert@137.205.222.236] has joined #lisp 12:03:08 wasabi [n=wasabi@nttkyo212187.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:03:25 -!- wasabi [n=wasabi@nttkyo212187.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has left #lisp 12:03:29 Phoodus, maybe you mean memory mapped? (plug for manardb) 12:03:46 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@41.208.192.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:03:55 embedded systems sometimes map flash to certain memory addresses 12:05:03 Some Unices do a lot of stuff via memory mapping, Solaris is a good example 12:05:40 tfb: actually, modern unices do quite possibly 80% of their work through memory mapping 12:06:12 adeht: Yeah, but it's a dependency that people would have to drag in 12:06:34 p_l: yes, though at least in Solaris's case it tends to make memory look like files rather than the other way around 12:06:42 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:06:45 (every page is mapped somewhere) 12:07:17 tcr: I meant more acceptable to me 12:07:33 tfb: for example, on linux, iirc any call to dynamically linked executable iirc results in several mmap() calls before actually starting up the code (and I don't mean the internal, kernel mmap() that is done on execve()) 12:07:48 tcr: to use them in library code 12:07:51 adeht: I guess that stuff like sbcl's extensible-sequences, sbcl's specializer-mop, contexl, and named-readtables are proofs that CL is somewhat evolving 12:09:05 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:09:22 p_l: yes, solaris is the same. Even the heap is mapped, to the "swap" filesystem 12:09:58 adeht: I'm going to make a new release soon; changed quite some bits. I'm waiting for a new sbcl release, though, because I fixed a showstopper bug in there 12:10:23 tfb: on linux you have /dev/kmem, as well as some extra files for grabbing data about mappings (because Linux VM information, the one you get in top/ps/etc. plainly sucks) 12:10:39 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 12:10:50 adeht: I added readtable nicknames, and documentation strings; that added state that has to be maintained which was surprisingly difficult to get right 12:11:37 At the moment, I'm working on synchronization stuff for sbcl :-) 12:11:38 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 12:11:48 :) 12:11:55 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:07 tfb: I have some simple code showing how to grab data about global memory mappings in Linux, @ http://github.com/unya/linux-vm-analizer 12:12:09 hello 12:15:14 p_l: I'll have a look. On Solaris there's pmap which is quite informative (but dealing with double-counted files is a pain) 12:17:48 tfb: sure, there's pmap, but it will only tell you what mappings are for the process - it won't tell you, if the page is actually in core, is swapped or isn't allocated at all 12:18:20 p_l: you need DTrace for that... 12:18:38 tfb: not really - DTrace traces marked functions in kernel, iirc 12:19:04 the code I linked previously grabs the kernel pagemap on newer linux kernels :) 12:23:53 re-noi [n=user@95.214.31.115] has joined #lisp 12:24:06 -!- re-noi is now known as unicode-afk 12:25:10 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:27:24 p_l: I suspect you can persuade DTrace to tell you that (though it would have to construct it from events, so may be not). but mdb can do this I am sure 12:27:58 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:53 m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:29:33 -!- nacerix [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:30:00 nacerix [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has joined #lisp 12:31:20 -!- ramus [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-147-65.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:31:58 -!- fe[nl]ix changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CLSQL 4.3.0, ABCL 0.18.1, Hunchentoot 1.1.0, cl-gtk2 0.1.1 12:35:34 ramus [n=ramus@99.23.129.143] has joined #lisp 12:35:38 wow, my blog post with hefner's picture got 10,000+ hits. 12:36:53 maybe I shouldn't have linked directly to hefner's site. Oops. 12:37:06 hefner: sorry 12:37:23 luis: link? 12:37:35 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:37:54 dabd [n=user@a85-139-105-54.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 12:37:57 lol 12:38:20 ecraven: http://kvardek-du.kerno.org/2010/01/how-common-lisp-programmer-views-users.html 12:38:49 hehe, thanks :D 12:40:53 tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has joined #lisp 12:41:19 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:41:25 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 12:43:35 luis: no worries, I pay for far more bandwidth than I've ever used. It'll be good to manage using a few gigabytes in a month for a change. 12:43:39 luis: You should have mentioned him. I inferred it's his work due to the hefner in the link :-) 12:44:09 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:44:39 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:45:25 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:07 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-17-208.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:53:03 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-174.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:53:21 luis: btw, I find CL as kirk to be slightly off-putting 12:53:50 Why? 12:53:51 -!- tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.54] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:53:52 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 12:53:56 I found it totally fitting 12:53:58 CL is old, it couldn't be Picard. 12:54:26 p_l: do you know that "I can't hear you over the voice of how awesome I am" poster 12:54:31 tcr: cause it suggests that it jumps after any "piece of ass" (metaphorically speaking) and then needs Scotty to get him out of trouble 12:55:06 and Picard would be IMHO more fitting, due to his more ... aged appearance :) 12:55:10 I'm pretty sure that was an homage of that poster 12:55:48 p_l: http://www.ackanime.com/random/1172403632074.jpg 12:56:09 -!- Harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-90-45.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:56:10 hahaha 12:57:53 total fit :-) 12:58:59 tcr: kinda reminds me of Kenny's blog 12:59:12 iirc it was "smug lisp weenie" :P 13:02:29 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.197.191] has quit [] 13:05:07 lukego [n=lukegorr@246.250.48.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 13:07:51 reverse engineering 200GB of traffic dump in a proprietary file format? just another day in the life of a Lisp teclo hacker ;) 13:09:25 rock on! 13:09:36 telco even 13:09:58 I like "teclo" better. 13:09:59 teclo would be a good name, though! 13:10:02 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.197.191] has joined #lisp 13:10:06 it's got the obligatory "CL" in there 13:10:22 and teclo.net is available 13:10:29 I will add it to the list of ideas for the Great Rebranding that every company gets to do once :) 13:13:56 There's no verb form which expressed "a to-be-frobbed frobitz", is there? Or does "frobbing-frobitz" work? 13:14:03 expresses 13:15:50 Clearly, english needs a macro system 13:18:08 hefner_ [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-118-22.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:19:02 Hmm, sb-int:named-lambda does not introduce an implicit BLOCK :-( 13:19:20 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-44-34.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:19:23 -!- hefner_ is now known as hefner 13:20:02 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757af0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:17 btw anybody who's interested in a wild globe-hopping network-hacking CL adventure is welcome to raise your hand by email so I know you exist, with an indication of your risk/poverty threshold so I know when it might be worth offering something :) now it's one guy working out of a suitcase but of course the global Teclo HQ in Zurich will soon employ all the most fashionable lisp hackers ... 13:23:25 I see teclo is gaining traction 13:23:26 wow, sounds interesting 13:24:20 saba [n=saba@94.136.88.17] has joined #lisp 13:24:31 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-102.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:25:05 -!- unicode-afk [n=user@95.214.31.115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:26:19 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:30:12 -!- Tabmow [i=terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- bdowning_ [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- Dodek [i=dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-29-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- ASau` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- bunz [n=bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- kuwabara2 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- foom2 [n=user@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- cupe [n=cupe@213.133.102.28] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- hoeq [n=hoeq@h-66-64.A216.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.utwente.nl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- dsop [i=dsp@ns.experimentalworks.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- Borbus [i=borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo8.44.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- kom__ [n=el@brain.cx] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- dym [n=dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- hohum [i=dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- ecraven [n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- ``Erik [n=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- nullman` [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- PuffTheMagic [n=quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- tvaalen [n=r@unaffiliated/tvaal] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- fractalis [n=user@cpe-98-27-191-210.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- koollman [n=samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- luis [n=user@r42.eu] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- defn [i=code@powerprecision.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@cpe-72-226-127-57.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:21 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- dabd [n=user@a85-139-105-54.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- rswarbrick [n=rupert@137.205.222.236] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1BA3.versanet.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- moesenle_ [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- Legooolas [n=Legooola@cpc2-aztw14-0-0-cust554.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@174-17-22-62.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- Yamazaki-kun [n=bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@246.250.48.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- Xantoz [n=hejhej@c-8bb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- dto1 [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-224-32.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:23 -!- konr` [n=user@187.88.102.65] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-243-33.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- ryepup1 [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- UnwashedMeme1 [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- pok [n=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- rbancroft [n=rumble@174.0.43.116] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@83.222.166.125] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- Orest^bnc [n=Orest@81.169.174.192] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@adsl-71-142-227-255.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- cmeow_ [i=cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- rlonstei1 [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-201-176.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- kingdon_ [i=yebyen@irie-arch.rit.edu] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:24 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- erg [n=erg@69.93.127.154] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- setheus [n=setheus@70.116.140.134] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- Wraithan [n=wraithan@74.207.234.252] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- ramus [n=ramus@99.23.129.143] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- nacerix [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@66.112.249.238] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- bobrown [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-14-62.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- potatishandlarn [n=potatish@c-4f663daf-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- nowherman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- prip [n=_prip@host50-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:25 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- guaqua_ [i=gua@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- aking [n=aking@67.23.13.119] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- yates [n=yates@cpe-174-097-145-232.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-61.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- partisan [n=partisan@121.124.124.117] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- jamesstanley [n=james@82-33-61-156.cable.ubr06.stav.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.197.191] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229177175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- disturbance [i=ac@c-68-34-160-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- a-s [n=user@93.112.123.148] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.248.210] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- Guest74708 [n=user@72.14.228.137] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-jnrafnblykvqbtmy] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- dfox_ [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- Terminus [n=justin@116.50.188.3] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- PissedNumlock [n=resteven@134.184.49.32] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- ironChicken [n=nrichard@mx.lurk.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- tychoish [n=tychoish@97.107.134.101] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- Guest61248 [i=irssi_lo@78.114.157.240] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:26 -!- chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- saba [n=saba@94.136.88.17] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- madsy [n=madsy@ti0207a340-1159.bb.online.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-68-55-210-226.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- jrockway_ [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- peterwang [n=user@122.227.189.156] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- Intensity [i=[TwgZSVb@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- krappie [n=brain@67.15.74.93] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- guaq [i=gua@82-128-221-166-Karjasilta-TR1.suomi.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- qeb`away [i=finnrobi@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- Raptelan_ [n=Raptelan@209.40.204.178] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- Guest53408 [n=x@204.8.46.227] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- danderson [n=dave@atlas.natulte.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- ineiros [n=itniemin@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe27f900-103.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176152733.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.108.233] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- p_l [i=plasek@89.248.166.201] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- weirdo [i=w@rodney.ltd.pl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@130.34.188.206] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- lupine_85 [n=quassel@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- _deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- peddie [n=peddie@18.224.0.58] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:30 -!- scode [n=scode@85.17.42.115] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:30:38 lukego [n=lukegorr@246.250.48.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 dabd [n=user@a85-139-105-54.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 rswarbrick [n=rupert@137.205.222.236] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 benny [n=benny@i577A1BA3.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 moesenle_ [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 Legooolas [n=Legooola@cpc2-aztw14-0-0-cust554.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 Xantoz [n=hejhej@c-8bb2e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 dto1 [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-224-32.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 konr` [n=user@187.88.102.65] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 Phoodus [i=foo@174-17-22-62.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 ryepup1 [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-243-33.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-201-176.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 cmeow_ [i=cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 kingdon_ [i=yebyen@irie-arch.rit.edu] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 Orest^bnc [n=Orest@81.169.174.192] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 rbancroft [n=rumble@174.0.43.116] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 Wraithan [n=wraithan@74.207.234.252] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 pok [n=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 pavelludiq [n=quassel@83.222.166.125] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 rlonstei1 [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 Yamazaki-kun [n=bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 setheus [n=setheus@70.116.140.134] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 erg [n=erg@69.93.127.154] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 djinni` [n=djinni`@adsl-71-142-227-255.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 UnwashedMeme1 [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:00 teclo ? 13:31:06 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.197.191] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 ramus [n=ramus@99.23.129.143] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 nacerix [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229177175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 alexbobp [n=alex@66.112.249.238] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 bobrown [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-14-62.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 disturbance [i=ac@c-68-34-160-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 potatishandlarn [n=potatish@c-4f663daf-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 nowherman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 prip [n=_prip@host50-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 yates [n=yates@cpe-174-097-145-232.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 a-s [n=user@93.112.123.148] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.248.210] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-61.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 PissedNumlock [n=resteven@134.184.49.32] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 Guest61248 [i=irssi_lo@78.114.157.240] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 guaqua_ [i=gua@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 tychoish [n=tychoish@97.107.134.101] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 Terminus [n=justin@116.50.188.3] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 dfox_ [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 ironChicken [n=nrichard@mx.lurk.org] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 jamesstanley [n=james@82-33-61-156.cable.ubr06.stav.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 aking [n=aking@67.23.13.119] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 Guest74708 [n=user@72.14.228.137] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 partisan [n=partisan@121.124.124.117] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 Holcxjo [n=holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-jnrafnblykvqbtmy] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has joined #lisp 13:31:10 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:31:21 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:22 Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo8.44.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:39 foom2 [n=user@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:45 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:31:55 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:59 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:10 cupe [n=cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has joined #lisp 13:32:17 Tabmow [i=terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 13:32:18 kuwabara2 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:19 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:32:29 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 saba [n=saba@94.136.88.17] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 madsy [n=madsy@ti0207a340-1159.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-68-55-210-226.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 jrockway_ [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 peterwang [n=user@122.227.189.156] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 Intensity [i=[TwgZSVb@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 hohum [i=dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:33 fractalis [n=user@cpe-98-27-191-210.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:38 luis [n=user@r42.eu] has joined #lisp 13:32:48 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:32:48 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 13:32:48 sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:50 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:32:52 ``Erik [n=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:53 ASau` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 13:32:54 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:33:03 Adlai [n=adlai@93-172-65-123.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 13:33:04 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:12 koollman [n=samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 lupine_85 [n=quassel@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.108.233] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 Guest53408 [n=x@204.8.46.227] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 guaq [i=gua@82-128-221-166-Karjasilta-TR1.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@130.34.188.206] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 peddie [n=peddie@18.224.0.58] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 Raptelan_ [n=Raptelan@209.40.204.178] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176152733.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 danderson [n=dave@atlas.natulte.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 weirdo [i=w@rodney.ltd.pl] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 _deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 p_l [i=plasek@89.248.166.201] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 ineiros [n=itniemin@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe27f900-103.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 qeb`away [i=finnrobi@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 krappie [n=brain@67.15.74.93] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 scode [n=scode@85.17.42.115] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 13:33:28 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:33:32 dym [n=dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 13:33:35 PuffTheMagic [n=quassel@whiterabbit.rz.uni-mannheim.de] has joined #lisp 13:33:37 Tristam [n=Tristam@cpe-72-226-127-57.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:38 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:46 bunz [n=bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has joined #lisp 13:33:52 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 13:33:59 hoeq [n=hoeq@h-66-64.A216.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:33:59 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:34:04 ecraven [n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:34:09 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:11 tarbo [n=me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:12 kom_ [n=el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 13:34:31 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:34:42 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:03 herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:07 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:35:11 -!- cupe [n=cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has quit [Killed by douglas.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 13:35:11 Dodek [i=dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-29-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 dsop [i=dsp@ns.experimentalworks.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 nullman` [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 mikezor [n=mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 Borbus [i=borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 cupe [n=cupe@213.133.102.28] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 defn [i=code@powerprecision.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 13:35:16 -!- cupe [n=cupe@213.133.102.28] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:35:16 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Operation timed out] 13:35:17 -!- dsop [i=dsp@ns.experimentalworks.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:35:17 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:18 cupe [n=cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has joined #lisp 13:35:19 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 13:35:29 dsop [i=dsp@87.118.104.77] has joined #lisp 13:35:30 emma [n=em@98.14.22.112] has joined #lisp 13:35:32 antoszka [n=antoszka@lemongrass.antoszka.pl] has joined #lisp 13:35:32 -!- Dodek [i=dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:35:32 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 13:35:42 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 13:35:44 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:35:46 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 13:35:54 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:01 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:36:03 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:36:04 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 13:36:16 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:36:26 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:42 tvaalen [n=r@terminal.se] has joined #lisp 13:36:47 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:36:58 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:37 Dodek [i=dodek@dodecki.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:46 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Client Quit] 13:41:13 what's your favourite technique for discovering the structure of binary files, which are probably basically a series of simple fixed-size records (a la c-struct)? 13:41:23 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 13:41:50 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-27-29.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:43:47 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:44:01 lukego: read the sources of a program that reads those files, if possible 13:44:28 not in this instance 13:45:29 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:45:40 cat the file to terminal and resize it horizontally. if the records are fixed size a pattern will emerge ;) 13:45:41 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:05 that is if the records have some common values in them 13:46:06 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@83.222.166.125] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:46:34 lukego: the last time i had to do that, i got really lucky and noticed the hex dump was producing readable dates and telephone numbers in the output - it was BCD... 13:46:50 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:12 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:47:22 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 13:47:34 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:49:22 lukego: i asked about the definition of "world-hopping" in your call for responses: does it involve lots of travelling? 13:49:54 jdz: certainly for some people at least :) 13:49:54 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@host86-147-198-241.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:50:25 (well at this early stage a simpler answer is "yes") 13:51:32 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:55 hefner_ [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-115-83.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:52:41 j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has joined #lisp 13:53:38 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:46 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:54:56 -!- legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-14-62.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:04 tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.17] has joined #lisp 13:56:17 lukego: stare at them in a hex editor, write hacks to try and dump them? it's handy, once record boundaries are identified, to flip rapidly around to draw your idea to fields changing in within the structure. IDA Pro is very handy for fitting structure to binary data, too (start with raw bytes, turn them into integers/strings/etc., define structures and try to fit them to the data. 13:56:28 s/idea/eye/ 13:57:05 lukego: take a fourier transform 13:57:12 hefner: yeah. I am always dreaming of a program where I could say e.g. "Suppose this is a magic number that always appears in the same position in each record, and this is a length header. then what records are there?" 13:57:32 the size of the struct will show up as the highest peak in the fourier transform of the data file 13:57:32 You can use something like MDL to infer a low cost structure. 13:57:55 (unproven hypothesis, please test) 13:59:11 really I would like C-o in hexl-mode to put in a "record break" 13:59:52 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-118-22.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:00:01 I'd go ahead and try Xof's idea, if I could think of a suitable file lying around with fixed size records in it. 14:01:36 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 14:02:11 I'm running this computer from a 2-week-old backup of my normal computer. the Emacs config is barely usable :) 14:03:26 i just had an idea: let the ~/.emacs be a link to ~/Dropbox/dot-emacs 14:03:37 gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.46.60] has joined #lisp 14:03:52 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 14:04:49 -!- arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:04:53 arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has joined #lisp 14:05:03 there, done. 14:05:55 -!- arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:06:05 arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:29 i has some Dropbox invites if anybody wants extra 250MB :) 14:08:15 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:41 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:09:07 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:10:23 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:12:26 ramus_ [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-150-32.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:16 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:15:47 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:16:10 jtza8 [n=jtza8@196.2.119.193] has joined #lisp 14:16:11 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@196.2.119.193] has quit [Client Quit] 14:16:32 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 14:16:55 rdd [n=user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:17:26 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:17:37 -!- arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19:20 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:19:25 mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 14:19:29 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:19:32 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:57 postamar [n=postamar@let10-doqu2.univ-avignon.fr] has joined #lisp 14:24:01 nacerix` [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has joined #lisp 14:25:35 -!- knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:26:47 sellout [n=greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:16 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:28:35 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441588.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:29:50 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:29:55 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.17] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- kom_ [n=el@brain.cx] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- hoeq [n=hoeq@h-66-64.A216.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- koollman [n=samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757af0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-174.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- frodef [n=frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- TR2N [n=email@89.180.235.181] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- cow-orker [n=foobar@pogostick.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- Xach [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- vsync [n=vsync@BLISTER.QUADIUM.NET] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- aidalgol [i=aidan@69.61.15.114] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- clop [n=jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-183-115-128.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- happycube [n=cpage@208.1.239.35] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-205-123-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- codemonkeyx [n=codemonk@www.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.235] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@99.54.133.197] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- kloeri [i=kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:29:55 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:47 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 14:30:57 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.17] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 kom_ [n=el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 hoeq [n=hoeq@h-66-64.A216.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 koollman [n=samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757af0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-209-174.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 frodef [n=frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 TR2N [n=email@89.180.235.181] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 cow-orker [n=foobar@pogostick.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 happycube [n=cpage@208.1.239.35] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-183-115-128.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 vsync [n=vsync@BLISTER.QUADIUM.NET] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 Xach [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.235] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-205-123-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 retupmoca [n=retupmoc@99.54.133.197] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 codemonkeyx [n=codemonk@www.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 clop [n=jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 kloeri [i=kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 14:31:02 -!- cow-orker [n=foobar@pogostick.net] has quit [Dead socket] 14:31:02 cow-orker [n=foobar@pogostick.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:02 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-205-123-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 14:31:04 -!- tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 14:31:05 -!- cow-orker [n=foobar@pogostick.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:31:22 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:31:32 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:09 -!- kom_ [n=el@brain.cx] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:32:13 kom_ [n=el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 14:32:21 aidalgol [i=aidan@69.61.15.114] has joined #lisp 14:32:22 -!- Xach [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:32:26 Xach [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:27 -!- kloeri [i=kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:33:17 fgtech^ [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 14:33:32 Oddity [n=Oddity@66.183.67.202] has joined #lisp 14:33:45 a-s` [n=user@93.112.123.148] has joined #lisp 14:34:11 -!- krappie [n=brain@67.15.74.93] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- weirdo [i=w@rodney.ltd.pl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176152733.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- Raptelan_ [n=Raptelan@209.40.204.178] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- guaq [i=gua@82-128-221-166-Karjasilta-TR1.suomi.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- p_l [i=plasek@89.248.166.201] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- ineiros [n=itniemin@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe27f900-103.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.108.233] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- qeb`away [i=finnrobi@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- Guest53408 [n=x@204.8.46.227] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@130.34.188.206] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- danderson [n=dave@atlas.natulte.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- scode [n=scode@85.17.42.115] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- peddie [n=peddie@18.224.0.58] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- _deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- lupine_85 [n=quassel@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.utwente.nl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- ``Erik [n=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- peterwang [n=user@122.227.189.156] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-68-55-210-226.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- saba [n=saba@94.136.88.17] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- jrockway_ [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- madsy [n=madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:11 -!- Intensity [i=[TwgZSVb@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- Tabmow [i=terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- Dodek [i=dodek@dodecki.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@lemongrass.antoszka.pl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- nacerix` [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- dsop [i=dsp@87.118.104.77] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- emma [n=em@98.14.22.112] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-29-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- Borbus [i=borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- nullman` [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- defn [i=code@powerprecision.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- cupe [n=cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- PuffTheMagic [n=quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- kuwabara2 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- bobrown [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- ramus [n=ramus@99.23.129.143] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- aking [n=aking@67.23.13.119] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- guaqua_ [i=gua@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- potatishandlarn [n=potatish@c-4f663daf-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- prip [n=_prip@host50-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- yates [n=yates@cpe-174-097-145-232.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:14 -!- slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- partisan [n=partisan@121.124.124.117] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-61.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- jamesstanley [n=james@82-33-61-156.cable.ubr06.stav.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- nacerix [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- nowherman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@66.112.249.238] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- postamar [n=postamar@let10-doqu2.univ-avignon.fr] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- hefner_ [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-115-83.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- tvaalen [n=r@terminal.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- ecraven [n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- bunz [n=bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- Guest74708 [n=user@72.14.228.137] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- disturbance [i=ac@c-68-34-160-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.197.191] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- dfox_ [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-jnrafnblykvqbtmy] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- PissedNumlock [n=resteven@134.184.49.32] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- Guest61248 [i=irssi_lo@78.114.157.240] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.248.210] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- Terminus [n=justin@116.50.188.3] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- ironChicken [n=nrichard@mx.lurk.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- tychoish [n=tychoish@97.107.134.101] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- a-s [n=user@93.112.123.148] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229177175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:16 -!- chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:34:17 -!- TR2N [n=email@89.180.235.181] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 14:34:53 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 nacerix` [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 Dodek [i=dodek@dodecki.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 antoszka [n=antoszka@lemongrass.antoszka.pl] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 emma [n=em@98.14.22.112] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 dsop [i=dsp@87.118.104.77] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 defn [i=code@powerprecision.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 Borbus [i=borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 mikezor [n=mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 nullman` [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-29-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 14:34:53 sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 ``Erik [n=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 saba [n=saba@94.136.88.17] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 madsy [n=madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-68-55-210-226.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 jrockway_ [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 peterwang [n=user@122.227.189.156] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 14:35:04 Intensity [i=[TwgZSVb@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 14:35:15 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:35:20 nowherman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:21 -!- j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 14:35:27 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:31 -!- aidalgol is now known as Guest98926 14:35:34 Tabmow [i=terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 14:35:42 j0be_ [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has joined #lisp 14:35:47 cupe [n=cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has joined #lisp 14:36:01 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 postamar [n=postamar@let10-doqu2.univ-avignon.fr] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 rdd [n=user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 hefner_ [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-115-83.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 tvaalen [n=r@terminal.se] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 ecraven [n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 bunz [n=bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 PuffTheMagic [n=quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 kuwabara2 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.197.191] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 nacerix [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229177175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 alexbobp [n=alex@66.112.249.238] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 bobrown [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 disturbance [i=ac@c-68-34-160-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 potatishandlarn [n=potatish@c-4f663daf-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 prip [n=_prip@host50-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 yates [n=yates@cpe-174-097-145-232.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 a-s [n=user@93.112.123.148] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.248.210] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-61.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 PissedNumlock [n=resteven@134.184.49.32] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 Guest61248 [i=irssi_lo@78.114.157.240] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 guaqua_ [i=gua@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 tychoish [n=tychoish@97.107.134.101] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 Terminus [n=justin@116.50.188.3] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 dfox_ [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 ironChicken [n=nrichard@mx.lurk.org] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 jamesstanley [n=james@82-33-61-156.cable.ubr06.stav.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 aking [n=aking@67.23.13.119] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 Guest74708 [n=user@72.14.228.137] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 partisan [n=partisan@121.124.124.117] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 Holcxjo [n=holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-jnrafnblykvqbtmy] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has joined #lisp 14:36:08 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:36:11 -!- nacerix [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has quit [Connection refused] 14:36:11 -!- a-s [n=user@93.112.123.148] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:36:11 slather_ [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has joined #lisp 14:36:18 -!- kuwabara2 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:36:22 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:24 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:36:28 -!- Terminus [n=justin@116.50.188.3] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:36:36 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:40 j0be pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93685 14:36:41 Terminus [n=justin@116.50.188.3] has joined #lisp 14:36:42 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:36:48 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:36:50 kuwabara2 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has joined #lisp 14:36:59 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:15 -!- j0be_ [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 14:37:20 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:37:25 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:37:31 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:46 j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has joined #lisp 14:37:53 xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 14:38:10 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:13 TR2N` [i=email@89.180.235.181] has joined #lisp 14:38:14 kloeri [i=kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 14:38:15 Q: how can I make this function better? http://paste.lisp.org/+20AD - it is a root mean square 14:40:52 kpreid [n=kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:06 -!- fgtech^ is now known as fgtech 14:42:03 j0be: A: An opening paren would probably improve the quality significantly. 14:42:10 j0be: use reduce instead of apply 14:42:50 ^ you can't really know how long the list returned by that mapcar is going to be 14:44:04 j0be: also, consider using map 'vector instead of mapcar 14:44:06 Harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-32-185.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:44:06 really? 14:44:06 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-205-123-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:21 i'd claim that it is always possible to know the length of list returned by mapcar 14:44:22 oh yeah. and mapcar only works on lists :p 14:44:40 but you've named the variable "vector" 14:44:47 and that's more than a little confusing 14:45:47 but i guess i'm barking on the wrong tree 14:45:56 tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has joined #lisp 14:46:36 opening paren, check! the vector are numbers (reals or something), so I am going to use map on it to summize the quadrants. 14:46:57 Sumpen [n=Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:47:09 nha [n=prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 14:48:09 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- bobrown [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- aking [n=aking@67.23.13.119] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- guaqua_ [i=gua@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- potatishandlarn [n=potatish@c-4f663daf-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- prip [n=_prip@host50-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- yates [n=yates@cpe-174-097-145-232.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- partisan [n=partisan@121.124.124.117] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-61.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- jamesstanley [n=james@82-33-61-156.cable.ubr06.stav.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@66.112.249.238] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- PuffTheMagic [n=quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:09 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:48:10 bobrown` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:10 PuffTheMagic_ [n=quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 14:48:11 guaqua [i=gua@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 14:48:12 aking_ [n=aking@67.23.13.119] has joined #lisp 14:48:13 mornfall [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 14:48:14 alexbobp_ [n=alex@66.112.249.238] has joined #lisp 14:48:19 potatishandlarn [n=potatish@c-4f663daf-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 14:48:20 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 14:48:26 prip [n=_prip@host50-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:48:30 addled [n=adl@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:32 Holcxjo [n=holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:38 xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 14:48:40 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 14:48:46 jamesstanley [n=james@82.33.61.156] has joined #lisp 14:48:52 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 14:49:13 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:42 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:49:42 -!- attila_lendvai is now known as Guest38344 14:49:52 -!- gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.46.60] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:50:05 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 lupine_85 [n=quassel@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.108.233] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 Guest53408 [n=x@204.8.46.227] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 guaq [i=gua@82-128-221-166-Karjasilta-TR1.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@130.34.188.206] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 peddie [n=peddie@18.224.0.58] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 Raptelan_ [n=Raptelan@209.40.204.178] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176152733.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 danderson [n=dave@atlas.natulte.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 weirdo [i=w@rodney.ltd.pl] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 _deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 p_l [i=plasek@89.248.166.201] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 ineiros [n=itniemin@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe27f900-103.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 qeb`away [i=finnrobi@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 krappie [n=brain@67.15.74.93] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 scode [n=scode@85.17.42.115] has joined #lisp 14:51:04 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:51:14 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:14 jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-201.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:31 jdz: sykopomp was concerned that the list might be larger than call-arguments-limit 14:52:13 which seems fantastically unlikely in 64-bit sbcl, now that I look at it 14:52:19 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:52:41 j0be annotated #93685 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93685#1 14:52:54 kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 14:52:57 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:53:02 -!- nacerix` [n=nacerix@195.24.196.113] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:53:09 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 14:53:16 good afternoon 14:53:29 j0be: you'll get some significant speedup if you use #'+ instead of '+ 14:53:36 must.. not.. spend.. evening.. hacking.. hexl.. mode.. 14:53:45 dlowe: are you sure? 14:54:04 dlowe: i would not expect any speedup at all 14:54:08 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:16 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:54:17 jdz: why not? 14:54:23 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:54:30 dlowe: I would have expected the reverse. 14:54:41 dlowe: first, it must be evaluated only once. second, it is in common-lisp package. 14:55:51 #'+ is better style though 14:55:53 '+ means that it doesn't need to consider the lexical environment. 14:56:06 So it should be simpler to optimize. 14:56:15 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-61.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:56:17 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 14:56:18 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 14:56:22 tfb: sometimes (always in case of symbols from common-lisp package) 14:57:04 the implementation is in AllegroCL 14:57:07 True, I guess you might be worrying about things which can be redefined, but, well. 14:57:08 Zhivago: whether or not + is lexically bound is known at compile time 14:57:29 tfb: yes, and novices might get bitten real hard by it. 14:57:30 s/known/knowable/ 14:57:49 Zhivago: granted 14:58:09 in short, the advice of using FUNCTION should not be given lightly as that. 14:58:22 jdz: yes good point. And I am not sure that it is defined whether the new definition is picked up (I would expect not, but I remember implementations where it was, I think) 14:59:47 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.203.53] has joined #lisp 14:59:50 tfb: my expectation would be that function objects (obtained with FUNCTION) are detached from the names. 15:00:12 ok, you made me go read the spec now ;) 15:00:35 tfb: I'll try to dig up Duane Rettig's comments on the issue. He talked about how ACL's implementation of funcall makes going through a symbol a lot faster (iirc). 15:00:46 Zhivago: CL:+ can't be lexically shaodowed any more than it can be rebound at the toplevel. 15:01:38 -!- Guest38344 is now known as attila_lendvai 15:01:48 Xach: I wasn't really worring about speed, more about style, though I can see both sides of the style arg now 15:02:16 on sbcl, using the symbol uses marginally fewer cycles 15:02:23 in my tests 15:03:17 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:03:23 jdz: I am reasonably sure that on Genera redefining a function worked the way you would not think it di 15:03:27 tfb: The joni mitchell moment! 15:03:33 and I think that is probably legal 15:03:33 interestingly, attempting to count the number of elements in a list during a mapcar is slower than doing the mapcar and then taking the list length, because of closure construction 15:03:55 tfb: too bad i don't have Genera 15:04:02 dlowe: using map nil, however, is probably just as fast. 15:04:37 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441588.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 15:04:38 pkhuong: true, but I was trying to see if I could get away with passing over the list once 15:04:48 I am guessing that is an artifact of them having invisible pointers though not sure 15:04:58 tfb: and i'm not sure it would be legal in Common Lisp 15:05:12 I can't find anything in the spec to say it is not 15:05:14 fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:43 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:06:03 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/42f00b6d43cd7fdb 15:06:22 tfb: well, it's about the /functional value/, which is a /value/. i would not want for my values change under my feet whenever i store them somewhere... 15:06:51 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.41.60] has joined #lisp 15:06:55 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:07:09 jdz: on the other hand, is the implementation required to make a new function object, or can it modify the old one? 15:07:15 that's not quite the message i had in mind, but it's along those lines. 15:07:44 tfb: modify? i guess i've lost some context 15:08:02 oh, in case of redefinition 15:08:05 yes 15:08:36 tfb: yes, that i have not yet checked. 15:08:39 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.198.57] has joined #lisp 15:08:42 -!- peterwang [n=user@122.227.189.156] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:08:52 dlowe: loop! (: 15:08:53 peterwang [n=user@122.227.189.156] has joined #lisp 15:09:41 jdz: I think the point is mostly moot though, because clearly an implementation is *allowed* to do the obvious thing, so, if you are worried about that, you should use the symbol... 15:09:56 (or in other words, I was wrong) 15:10:27 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:50 tfb: but on the other hand, if the implementation is allowed to modify the function object, than it is not possible to depend on my expected behaviour, either. 15:11:05 but i think i have got my expectation from reading some discussion, anyway 15:11:27 hicx174 [n=hicx174@211.44.210.50] has joined #lisp 15:11:37 huh. using loop is the clear winner 15:12:02 defun says a new function is defined. 15:12:23 dlowe annotated #93685 "fast (ugly?) loop version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93685#2 15:13:47 dlowe: any reason to setf instead of incf? 15:13:59 ryepup1: no, not really 15:14:12 -!- ryepup1 is now known as ryepup 15:14:40 hmm, there is no glossary entry of "redefine" 15:14:53 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 15:14:57 as in, "redefine an already-defined function" 15:15:48 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 15:16:47 (setf symbol-function) says it can be used to "replace" the definition, not modify. 15:16:55 that's the only evidence i can find... 15:20:00 jdz: and clearly one could *write* DEFINE-FUNCTION which used that, so whether DEFUN does or does not is moot 15:20:42 tfb: how would you write it? 15:20:45 *tfb* half wished he still had his lispm so he could check his memory 15:21:53 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:22:05 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:23:07 -!- Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo8.44.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23:27 Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo8.44.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:36 jdz: I now have to work out this paste thing 15:23:38 damn 15:25:01 tfb pasted "define-function" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93686 15:25:01 -!- Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo8.44.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:25:20 Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo8.44.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:51 tfb: well, you're going through fdefinition, which has the wording "replace" (not "modify") 15:27:24 jdz: oh, sorry, that's what I meant. It clearly is the case that, even if DEFUN does the magic modify thing, other things may not, so the function cell may change 15:27:32 although DEFUN has "defun can be used to ... install a corrected version of an incorrect definition" 15:27:41 go figure 15:28:10 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:33 jdz: in other words, as you said, (function x) is not "safe" against redefinition 15:28:57 so your advice earlier was right... 15:29:00 yes, but only if i trust my spec reading skills... 15:29:41 no, because I might be using DEFINE-FUNCTION not DEFUN and I think DEFINE-FUNCTION *must* create a new function 15:30:01 so, I trust your spec reading skills anyway. 15:30:46 i mean, safe against redefinition has two sides: a) i want my value obtained with FUNCTION to stay the same, and b) i expect the value i obtained with FUNCTION to be the current function definito 15:30:46 n 15:30:51 these both are the opposites 15:31:03 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CF9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:21 i want to find proof that values obtained with FUNCTION cannot change under my feet. 15:31:47 b 15:31:50 i mean, i'm expecting them not to change. but can i? 15:31:58 *may i? 15:33:34 my guess is no, an implementation can legally do the modify trick (based on Genera doing this, and symbolics people having been on the standards committee) 15:33:55 though that is a weak argument 15:34:14 also my memory could be wrong 15:35:40 phf [n=user@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:49 on yet another hand i cannot imagine a case where this would really matter 15:38:35 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.197.191] has quit ["Boot me gently"] 15:39:00 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32F16E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:00 jdz: (defvar *mapper* #'fun) 15:39:32 now reload your code with a new definition of FUN and what does *mapper* do? 15:40:07 but you could argue that this is just bad code 15:40:15 (which is is, basically) 15:40:30 s/is is/it is/ 15:40:59 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:42:08 Ok, friends. Who has drakma and wants to help me gather some data in a distributed fashion? 15:42:20 here 15:42:58 could you fetch http://xach.com/tmp/megamid.lisp and run "sbcl --load megamid.lisp"? 15:43:06 and leave it running for a day or so? :) 15:43:35 i'll do that on my server 15:43:48 i'll have to get the environment set up first, though 15:43:57 -!- eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-141-116.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:44:00 Any other friends who want to do that would be most welcome 15:44:21 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:44:37 what data do you want to collect? 15:44:52 ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-177-214.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:45:01 tcr: a mapping of message-id to google group thread url 15:45:31 tcr: it is easy to get the individual message url, but requires a little bit of scraping to get the thread url, which provides more context 15:47:19 felideon [n=user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 15:47:51 Xach: thanks Xach. I got rid of the Gist thing. 15:47:56 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit ["reboot .. brb. .."] 15:48:13 felideon: Thanks. The first time I visited, it didn't seem slow, but the second time, it took 10+ seconds and visibly paused on the gist stuff... 15:48:30 Really? Yeah I hadn't noticed the slowness either. 15:48:45 But good, the "brought to you by Gist" over and over was annoying me anyway 15:49:26 maus [n=maus@222.253.61.231] has joined #lisp 15:49:47 Good evening! 15:50:11 Lithos [n=chatzill@DSLPool-net214-62.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:43 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 15:50:59 Xach: that require should be put in an eval-when 15:52:22 tcr: Why? 15:52:49 otherwise you won't be able to c-c c-k the file 15:53:05 tcr: That is not a supported use of the file :) 15:53:15 It's specifically intended to be --load-ed 15:53:45 why? 15:54:02 hm I seem to be missing puri and cl-base64... I thought I had a working drakma before 15:54:25 -!- RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 15:54:33 Ease of running. I don't want to tie up a sbcl editing session with a boring process that will run for hours. 15:55:32 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CF9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:56:49 wbraun [n=wolfgang@vpn0517.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 15:56:50 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.41.60] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:58:02 wow, i thought that was a real neil young song! 15:58:15 Oops. 15:59:46 Hello I have a problem with hunchentoot and a program I wrote. My program works correct I have tested it in the repl. I wrote a easy handler with a (:form .... ) argument, and I think that I get the right string parameters, but the result is not the same... 15:59:58 Reaver [n=User@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 16:00:26 tcr: Thanks for running it! 16:00:39 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [".. again .."] 16:00:51 only 5074 more to go. 16:00:57 lisppaste: url? 16:00:57 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 16:01:08 wbraun: try lisppaste... 16:01:39 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 16:01:39 Xach: Is that my network connection, or is there some big (sleep) in there? 16:01:47 Also, if you're not sure about the parameters you get, you could write them to a log file or to the output page... 16:02:08 tcr: Big sleep. Google bans if you request too fast. 16:02:19 tcr: (+ 30 (random 30.0)) 16:03:06 pjb: http://134.2.166.17:8080/grammer 16:03:26 -!- Reaver [n=User@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:04:11 pjb: i have debug output on the page and it seems correct... 16:04:16 wbraun: how do you debug a program without the sources? 16:04:22 mom 16:05:03 Ok, who is running it without the sleep? 16:05:25 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:05:50 perhaps a bug in RANDOM that returns negative numbers? 16:06:08 -!- Guest74708 is now known as reb 16:06:17 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:23 Caught me ... I ran without a sleep. 16:06:23 Hello all. 16:06:38 Is it causing problems for you? 16:06:41 wbraun pasted "easy handler" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93690 16:06:52 reb: Nope, but you might have to enter captchas at google pretty soon. 16:06:57 reb: Feel free to let it rip again. 16:07:04 The guy who ran from Marathon without sleeping died on arrival.. 16:07:15 hi nyef 16:07:20 Not likely, since I'm inside the ministry. 16:07:31 pjb: i've pasted the handler i wrote, the rest of the program seems to be correct in the repl so i think there is no problem,would be a little bit much for pasting it i think :) 16:07:32 reb: Oho. Well, knock yourself out. Thanks! 16:07:38 impulse32 [n=impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442389.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:07:47 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:08:01 poormanssupercomputer@Home 16:08:06 wbraun: why do we see the same symbols in the terminal and non terminal sets? 16:08:21 *Xach* watches (length *pending-message-ids*) shrink and shrink 16:08:49 Xach: what's it down to now? 16:08:51 Xach: do you still have that URL you pointed me to a month or two ago, to the guy's page with concept sketches of a bunch of space ships? 16:09:04 hefner_: sure do. http://traipse.com/ is it. 16:09:13 Thanks. 16:09:15 dlowe: 4263 16:10:10 pjb: good question... there have to be the mistake. but the same text used in the repl works... mmh... maybe there is a problem with #\newline, so i split the productions 16:10:11 3913! 16:11:55 What will happen at the end of the countdown? :) 16:12:25 virtual party hats for all! 16:12:27 Xach will be able to provide links to the threads Naggum participated in 16:13:19 Xach: shoulda put in a scoring mechanism. I have a few systems working on this 16:13:19 Makes me want a botnet :-) 16:14:18 xach: running one instance. I could start another that uses a different IP address--is that the key factor? 16:14:34 wgl: sure. You might want to fetch another copy of megamid.lisp, i lowered the timeout a lot. 16:14:49 Ok. 16:14:51 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.41.60] has joined #lisp 16:15:08 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 16:15:08 Xach: Will it stop automatically at the end? 16:15:27 tcr: Yes. the url that returns a to-be-resolved message-id will return 204, no content 16:16:04 it also stops if the result stops looking like a message-id. 16:16:34 Looks like each instance handles roughly 1 url per second. 16:19:09 500 to go. 16:19:27 i'm running one instance now 16:21:14 just in time 16:21:53 swilde [n=wilde@aktaia.intevation.org] has joined #lisp 16:22:00 two instances now 16:22:25 but now it drops into repl 16:22:28 after one fetched 16:22:38 guaqua: That's because reb ripped through about 5000 of them very quickly. 16:22:49 oohkay :) 16:23:03 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 16:23:09 oh well, at least i got bunch of stuff updated in the process 16:23:11 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:23:29 yeah, same here 16:24:08 thanks everyone. 16:24:18 hi *, testing a fresh build of SBCL 1.0.34 (on GNU/Linux x86) I 16:24:18 get one failure: 16:24:18 Status: 16:24:21 looks like there are about 150 that don't appear in google groups at all. 16:24:21 Failure: threads.pure.lisp / SYMBOL-VALUE-IN-THREAD.7 16:24:25 test failed, expected 104 return code, got 1 16:24:28 What is the best way to proceed..? 16:24:55 Xach: I'll keep your method in mind next time I need some distributed processing done ;) 16:25:11 swilde: Upgrade to 1.0.34.2, where that test case has been fixed to no longer have a race condition. Or ignore it, it's a race condition in the test, and not a problem with SBCL proper. 16:25:32 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:25:40 nyef: thanks a lot! so I'll ignore it for now. 16:26:15 pjb: if you are interested where the error was: my emacs does a newline with a single #\newline and in the browser there was a #\Return statement before every #\newline :) That made it go wrong 16:26:39 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@246.250.48.60.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has quit [] 16:27:26 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:27:52 Xach: that was a beautiful distributed computing hack! 16:28:58 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:21 This seems to have been a very unbusy month for SBCL committage. 16:29:31 thanks! i'm glad everyone helped get it done so quickly. 16:30:34 xach:So it is done? 16:31:02 wgl: I have 5,121 usenet articles, and I'd like to be able, for each one, to link into the middle of the discussion thread on which they occurred. 16:31:28 wgl: I have only the message-id to work with. it's easy enough to go to the individual message page, but jumping to the thread is another step. 16:31:34 I'd like to cut out that step for people. 16:31:57 for example, see the message-id link on http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3137074519953937@naggum.no.html 16:32:01 Right, so megamid step seems to have exited here--the search id finished? 16:32:22 wgl: yes, reb used his secret sauce to do it all very fast 16:33:47 xach: Cool. so how did he make it work without the sleep? 16:34:08 wgl: Deleted a few characters, I bet. 16:34:20 wgl: The restriction was purely on the client side. 16:34:22 trebor-dki pasted "can someone give me a hint on this sbcl-note?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93691 16:34:40 Heh. Somehow I thought it was rate limited by IP. 16:34:41 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34:59 wgl: He is from a Special IP associated with the Special Company involved, I am guessing. 16:35:09 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:35:21 alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:35:48 Ah, inside the ministry. Cool. Thanks for doing this, xach. 16:35:50 trebor_dki: It seems to be saying that RESULT is never NIL. 16:36:16 wbraun: HTTP uses CR LF for newlines, as almost all the IP protocols. 16:37:06 Hence, neither F-VEC nor REL-ERROR can return NIL. 16:37:08 nyef: yes, but (result (and fitresult (rel-error fitresult y))) can be nil, since fitresult can be nil 16:37:38 Are you sure? 16:37:42 can it be? 16:37:51 what does SBCL think it is? 16:38:18 The best CL implementation even? 16:38:23 ever 16:38:46 No, I mean, what does SBCL think FITRESULT can return - maybe it has proved that it can not return NIL 16:39:08 -!- wbraun [n=wolfgang@vpn0517.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:39:19 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.41.60] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:39:28 It there an easy way to get these inferences? 16:39:30 nyef & pjb you are right, sbcl is clever. i did not update fvec (contaning the handler-case ...) thanks. 16:39:54 sorry f-vec I mean 16:39:59 heh 16:40:01 Perhaps compile-file :verbose ? 16:40:15 ah, thanks for that hint. 16:40:35 I hate it when compilers tell me stuff about my code I did not think was true... 16:41:06 tfb: Oh? I actually like it when that happens. 16:41:47 *tfb* thinks compilers should just get on and do as they are told, since his code is always error-free 16:41:49 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:41:51 yes, now everything is fine (no notes anymore) 16:42:12 What I don't like is not having a way to say "I believe this should be true about this code, please tell me where it isn't" for an arbitrary "this". 16:43:03 nyef: except for the equivalent of linker tricks. 16:43:29 linker tricks? 16:43:36 nyef: assert? 16:44:02 pjb: Assert is localized, I'd like something more global. 16:44:05 you kind of want somthing that will thread assert through your code 16:44:20 (or I find I want that, anyway) 16:44:32 in C, you refer to symbols you know won't exist at link-time and hope the compiler can elide all the references to it. You can always do the moral equivalent (unportably). 16:44:42 pjb: assert is run-time concept 16:44:44 Oh, uhg. 16:44:47 ugh. 16:44:53 nyef: well, I tend do call that "tests". 16:45:16 pjb: Doesn't help when the system doesn't even pass a smoke test. 16:45:26 tcr: right, but nothing prevents a compiler to try to prove the condition is either always true or always false at compilation time, and issue a warning. 16:46:02 Really, I'm thinking of all the places in SBCL where it was assumed that n-fixnum-tag-bits was (1- n-lowtag-bits) and related assumptions. 16:47:08 (There's still some cleanup for me to do on that, plus documentation, but I should have sufficient free time for a bit to work up a proper patch series for commit to CVS. 16:47:27 nyef, as a gut feeling, if you want to spread asserts around your codebase then some abstraction is not properly factored out. and the effort to spread the asserts is probably comparable to factoring it out... 16:48:09 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:49:15 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:49:45 -!- hefner_ is now known as hefner 16:51:50 -!- tfb [n=tfb@212.183.140.17] has quit [] 16:52:08 Demosthenes [n=demo@dhcp184-49-168-62.univ.buf.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:28 pjb: Yes the rice/shapiro theorems prevent a compiler 16:54:37 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:55:18 -!- ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:55:21 attila_lendvai: In this case, the abstraction was already there, but hadn't been used consistently, and SBCL isn't exactly a small codebase so finding the various failures wasn't easy. 16:56:47 milanj [n=milan@77.46.219.112] has joined #lisp 16:57:12 nyef, well, judging from what you wrote about tag bits, properly factoring out that abstraction would be more like an implementation of an interpreter working on a byte-array with a reified memory layout 16:57:32 -!- j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 16:57:41 and then how you turn that into a compiler is a rather interesting story 16:57:52 but i need to do boring work now :/ 16:59:08 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit ["brb. .. gfx driver mess"] 17:00:36 luis, what do you think about a :separate-base-char in trivial-features? 17:00:39 ... There's a rather frightening concept lurking there somewhere... 17:00:46 parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:51 allegro as an example doesn't have it 17:01:49 sbcl with #-sb-unicode not, too, right? 17:02:35 nyef, we have a proof of concept repo for that. i hardly can hold back myself from working on it... such an interpreter written in cl, a cl partial evaluator applied to it so that it flattens all the operations to a list of memory modification primitives that are lowlevel enough for llvm 17:03:08 the interpreter can be run, then the cl universe will give life to the interpreted language in a byte array 17:03:36 or it can be partially evaluated and fed to llvm to compile it to the bare metal 17:05:19 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-243-33.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:05:42 things like n-tag-bits are variables the partial evaluator can get rid of. or the list of types understood by the memory layout is also dynamic in the sense that generating a semantic universe (including memory layout) is a matter of a function call with some rules given to the PE 17:05:52 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-93409.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:07 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 17:06:30 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-243-33.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:44 luis, or rather make that :separate-base-char-type 17:08:57 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:10:01 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:10:07 attila_lendvai: I think there were problems with trivial-features pushing keywords to *features* 17:10:29 tcr, you mean people don't like the idea? 17:11:00 no it making compiling clx, iirc, fail 17:11:30 well, then that's just a bug to be fixed then... no? 17:11:30 it should push symbols from the trivial-features package 17:11:36 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:11:41 ah, i see 17:11:48 No pushing keywords is a bad idea 17:11:54 There's a problem when testing non keyword features with #+/#-: you have to write a complex #. test to cater for when the package doesn't exist. At least, KEYWORD always exists... 17:11:59 it's sort of ok if all you push is the name of your package because that's unique anyway 17:12:04 -!- felideon [n=user@12.228.15.162] has left #lisp 17:12:28 an unfortunate name collision... although i would rather try to handle the few potential conflicts than #+trivial-features:foo 17:12:32 Yeah, CLX had a problem with :little-endian meaning both "override the usual endian auto-detection" and "use old-style eval-when keywords when doing this override". 17:12:58 I think it was :little-endian, at least. 17:13:27 Essentially, globally pushing a bunch of random keywords to *features* is going to lose -somehow-. 17:13:28 attila_lendvai: Huh? It's clearly something which is error-prone. 17:13:36 indeed 17:14:12 (Alternately, bind *features*, don't push to it.) 17:14:28 tcr, error prone for sure, but the problem space is not big at all... and that specific thing is arguably a clx bug 17:14:32 -!- konr` [n=user@187.88.102.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:14:45 NOTABUG. 17:14:47 I'd be really interested in your arguments 17:15:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 17:15:31 nyef: that won't work for the purpose of trivial-features, I guess 17:15:47 Are you sure that trivial-features isn't a bug itself? 17:16:01 i don't know the details, but if trivial-features pushed :little-endian on platforms that are little-endian, then any cl implementation could do it, which would break clx 17:16:04 But I'm coming from the perspective of the CLX maintainer. 17:16:46 mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 17:17:02 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:18 nyef: Why do you think so? (Perhaps I'm on your side... trying to kludge "portability" layers over inherently unportable stuff can be fragile to begin with) 17:17:49 On one level, declaring it to not be a bug in CLX means less work for me. 17:18:10 On another, it works Just Fine unless someone loads trivial-features. 17:19:09 attila_lendvai: I guess the clx branch in question is supposed to work on a special selection of implementations. And these implementations do not do that 17:20:23 attila_lendvai: And it doesn't argue for trivial-features to push keywords onto *features*; it's argument against practise in clx. 17:20:26 Yeah, it's in depdefs.lisp, #+(or lispm vax little-endian Minima), uses an eval-when (eval compile load), which causes the error. 17:20:38 lghtng [n=lghtng@pdpc/supporter/active/lghtng] has joined #lisp 17:21:57 I'm seeing explicit detection code for #+lcl3.0, #+cmu, #+sbcl and #+clisp. 17:22:45 tcr, well, sure. for that the only argument is that #+trivial-featues:foo is ugly... but i don't really care that much about it. i'll only need it at one place, so i'll write my own ugly #+#.(cl:if ...) 17:22:56 -!- postamar [n=postamar@let10-doqu2.univ-avignon.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:23:07 attila_lendvai: Can I interest you in a #.` instead? 17:25:07 (Or, if you've got more to keep track of, #.(let (...) `...)?) 17:25:11 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:43 nyef, hrm, good idea! let's home #.(values) does what i want... 17:25:47 dmiles [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:49 -!- dmiles [n=dmiles@c-67-165-120-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:26:08 kami` [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 17:26:22 If it doesn't, drop back a nesting level. 17:26:22 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483CF9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:44 And if you're at toplevel, there's always progn. 17:27:35 it's a type entry in a typecase 17:27:41 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 17:29:40 #.`(typecase ... ,@(when ... `(character ...))) ? 17:31:51 yeah, but that gives more scattered noise to the code (it's a rather long typecase) 17:32:06 but the local #.` works fine, thanks! 17:32:15 #.`(values) also 17:32:23 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-53-213.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:35:55 I'd worry about #.`(values), TBH. It might not be portable. 17:36:20 (IIRC, the spec can be interpreted as #. using the -primary- value, which would be NIL.) 17:37:55 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:38:32 anyone has .emacs example of remote slime 17:39:05 remote files is giving me headache 17:40:02 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:40:58 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:41:08 -!- kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41:53 Ahh... Okay, 2.1.4.4 gives sufficient portable mechanism that #.(values) is plausible. 17:41:57 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:42:25 milanj: you mean connecting to a slime running on another machine via ssh tunnels? 17:42:36 yes, connecting is ok 17:42:45 but i cant make it work with remote files 17:43:08 tramp? 17:44:26 There are a couple of hooks for customizing how SLIME converts a filename between emacs and the lisp implementation. 17:44:57 One of them is the more primitive interface, and the other is provided by a slime contrib, if memory serves. 17:45:12 I had to use them to make SBCL/Win32 interoperate correctly with cygwin emacs. 17:45:42 hmm, i have some settings in .emacs that i have stolen ... 17:45:47 but i does not work though 17:45:57 *it 17:46:33 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:46:46 konr [n=user@187.88.102.65] has joined #lisp 17:47:02 and this copy/paste from my local to remote machine is breaking lisp philosophy 17:47:48 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 17:48:11 milanj: I have my remote filesystem mounted locally, and edit/compile works OK that way 17:48:23 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:49:11 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:47 -!- swilde [n=wilde@aktaia.intevation.org] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:50:01 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:06 that is not an option for me 17:50:31 milanj: and also am pushing a few functions into slime-filename-translations to tell slime how to map filenames 17:50:35 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 17:51:02 hmm, can you lisp.paste that part if it's ok ? 17:51:12 Well, get tramp running, and map lisp filename to something that works for tramp? 17:51:55 milanj: I think nyef has it right, will paste that bit, but I don't think it'll be that helpful; the elisp is pretty specific to the filesystem mount method 17:52:38 anton [n=Miranda@93.125.49.66] has joined #lisp 17:52:41 postamar [n=postamar@AMarseille-252-1-84-139.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:52:46 ok, i will look a little through slime/tramp thing .. i'm just a slime user though 17:53:24 -!- tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:53:25 I seem to be using slime-to-lisp-filename-function and slime-from-lisp-filename-function ? 17:53:27 milanj: if you use the slime-tramp contrib you can then also look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/17592 which has some commented examples of using it 17:53:38 Probably something to do with slime contribs. 17:53:52 milanj: UnwashedMeme1 wrote my config initially, so I recommend that paste 17:54:38 moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-175-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:42 cool, thanks 17:56:25 milanj: the first 6 lines are probably all you will need, the further stuff is for advanced tramp configurations (multiple hops to get around firewalls or whatnot) 17:58:05 -!- lghtng [n=lghtng@pdpc/supporter/active/lghtng] has quit [] 17:58:25 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:25 chris___1 [n=chris@71.104.235.97] has joined #lisp 18:00:13 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:01:10 cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:41 Axius [n=oijhif@92.84.26.112] has joined #lisp 18:03:32 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483CF9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:03:33 -!- Axius [n=oijhif@92.84.26.112] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:03:58 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@dhcp184-49-168-62.univ.buf.wayport.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:04:22 axius [n=oijhif@92.84.26.112] has joined #lisp 18:05:26 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-177-214.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:05:53 http://www.xach.com/lisp/zpng/#sect-examples I'm trying to use the 'mandelbrot' example 18:06:04 slime tells me that the zpng related items are undefined 18:06:20 and using clisp "mandelbrot.lisp" doesn't yield any output or errors 18:06:40 chris___1: for that code to work, you must load zpng and either be in the zpng package or define a new package that uses the zpng package. 18:06:55 chris___1: it's meant more as a guide for someone who already knows CL and wants an easy example than as a CL tutorial. 18:07:22 I used (require 'zpng) before (load "mandelbrot.lisp") 18:07:36 okay I'll follow some other tutorials and come back to this 18:07:44 chris___1: mandelbrot.lisp defines the functions but doesn't call any of them. 18:07:48 anair_84 [n=anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:02 chris___1: you'd have to do something like (mandelbrot::draw-mandelbrot "foo.png") 18:08:39 Xach: thank you 18:09:40 -!- Lithos [n=chatzill@DSLPool-net214-62.wctc.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.17/2009122116]"] 18:10:12 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 18:10:31 gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.46.57] has joined #lisp 18:11:14 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:10 ruediger [n=the-rued@91-115-177-214.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:15:03 -!- axius [n=oijhif@92.84.26.112] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:41 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:47 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 18:20:27 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 18:21:40 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-oijanlskwxsdvyqi] has joined #lisp 18:21:48 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 18:23:20 -!- Guest98926 [i=aidan@69.61.15.114] has quit [Client Quit] 18:23:35 -!- saba [n=saba@94.136.88.17] has quit ["leaving"] 18:27:07 -!- anair_84 [n=anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:29:27 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:04 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:33:04 tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has joined #lisp 18:34:19 tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:37 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:36:32 Xach: I used the mandelbrot.lisp in my example doc and it had more code in it 18:36:41 Xach: I was able to generate the fractal 18:38:02 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-17-208.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:38:42 zenati [n=zenati@77.246.86.186] has joined #lisp 18:39:12 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.91.2"] 18:39:45 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:40:04 hello 18:40:16 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 18:42:04 chris___1: hooray 18:42:58 :-D 18:43:05 Xach: look at me I'm jumping 18:43:27 -!- zenati [n=zenati@77.246.86.186] has left #lisp 18:43:36 -!- lupine_85 [n=quassel@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:46:31 -!- nha [n=prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:13 -!- aking_ is now known as aking 18:47:20 wow... cl-monad-macros is one way to do it, i guess... but i think i'd rather not have monads then have to implement them as macros... ugly. 18:48:28 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:54 slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:19 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-191-251.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:53:56 varjag [n=eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:56:59 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:39 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:58 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-96-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:58 -!- ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 19:03:22 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:55 ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 19:08:14 Jabberwock [n=jens@port-9557.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:26 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-93409.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:08:45 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@office.sea.jambool.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:16 -!- gibranian [n=gibrania@88.238.46.57] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:12:15 native client looks promising. 19:13:03 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:14:07 drewc: Do have the library available in a repl? 19:15:18 yvdriess [n=Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 19:15:43 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:15:46 anyone had some experience with scheme R6RS? the scheme channel looks pretty dead 19:16:39 nevertheless, stick to the scheme channel 19:18:47 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-96-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 19:19:07 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-96-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:19:21 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-96-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 19:19:30 axius [n=oijhif@92.84.26.112] has joined #lisp 19:19:41 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-96-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:20:04 tcr: monad-macros? yeah, playing with it now. 19:24:05 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@91-115-177-214.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:29:27 -!- moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-175-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:30:10 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:30:26 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:30:48 lithper2 [n=chatzill@72.8.31.2] has joined #lisp 19:33:25 felideon [n=user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 19:34:01 loxs [n=loxs@78.90.124.182] has joined #lisp 19:36:22 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:36:33 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:36:51 -!- sellout [n=greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:40:01 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 19:43:43 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:46:01 skeptomai [n=ncb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:21 -!- maus [n=maus@222.253.61.231] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:46:59 -!- axius [n=oijhif@92.84.26.112] has quit [Client Quit] 19:48:40 mariorz [n=mariorz@li10-58.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:27 anyone know of a bittorrent client or lib written in some lisp? 19:50:13 be the first! 19:50:24 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:27 -!- tictactorque [n=ticktack@208.65.172.155] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:04 mariorz: I haven't seen one. 19:52:01 google doesn't help much with that query. found a bunch of books though. 19:52:33 the basic stuff to do such is obviously there; I guess it'd be down to you to implement the bittorrent protocol in lisp. 19:52:36 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:53:13 I like the looseness of the bittorrent spec. It talks about "arbitrary-length strings" that have a size indicated by a 32-bit integer. :) 19:53:25 It's not arbitrary, then, is it?! 19:53:46 well, the bittorrent folks were python geeks; you have to cut them some slack. 19:53:47 :) 19:54:18 "folk" 19:54:38 mariorz: why not use one of the existing C libraries from lisp? 19:55:26 "lisp all the way down" is better? ;) 19:55:43 see, rucksack 19:56:19 Fade: speaking of which, where's that demo you have? 19:56:34 of rucksack? 19:56:44 Fade: i'm guessing mariorz is relatively new to lisp (a wild guess, i admit), as a real lisper would have simply implemented a library themselves immediately :P 19:56:44 drew was the rucksack du0d. :) 19:56:45 yes 19:56:54 unicode [n=user@95.214.89.102] has joined #lisp 19:56:56 Fade: hmm, was it ROFL then? 19:56:57 Fade: nah, ROFL + LOL is what he wants 19:57:06 there you go 19:57:16 darcs get http://www.deepsky.com/~fade/roflcopter 19:57:41 -!- unicode [n=user@95.214.89.102] has left #lisp 19:58:20 nice project name 19:58:35 just sticking /w drewc's naming convention. 19:58:50 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:59:34 -!- trebor_d` [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:00:21 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-53-213.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:01:08 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 20:02:16 -!- yvdriess [n=Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:02:30 anair_84 [n=anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:43 *felideon* would like to attend a hands-on drewc lecture one day :) 20:03:45 felideon: i've been trying to figure out a way to do more of them... it was a lot of fun. Time is the real problem... time and money :) 20:04:21 it'd be nice to take that transcription and system definition and turn it into a real tutorial. 20:04:50 I'm using slime and sbcl and (setf x 4) yields and error, 'undefined variable: X' 20:05:00 chris___1: have you defined X ? 20:05:10 you have to either create x in a lexical scope or defvar it 20:05:12 no. I thought setf did that 20:05:21 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit ["Moving, back in a while"] 20:05:21 clhs setf 20:05:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_setf.htm 20:05:36 chris___1: (defparameter x 4) 20:05:58 thank you 20:06:00 madnificent: wrong! 20:06:13 some lisps will just create the special, but sbcl complains, correctly imo. 20:06:18 chris___1: DEFPARAMETER creates special variables... 20:06:29 chris___1: so you _must_ give the *earmuffs* 20:06:40 (defparameter *x* 4) 20:06:40 drewc: ok 20:06:46 does the spec says it should complain? 20:06:53 well, that's the convention. there's nothing in the language to enforce earmuffs. :) 20:07:01 (not that I find it really wrong, but I wonder if it says that) 20:07:07 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:07:10 madnificent: SETF is defined to work on variables 20:07:19 madnificent: the spec defines way a variable is 20:07:42 madnificent: it does not say anything about what happens if you use SETF on a non-variable. 20:07:42 no, should it complain on (defprameter i-have-no-earmufs 1337) 20:08:35 Fade: you mean make it into a step-by-step tutorial isntead of sifting through the transcript? 20:08:48 madnificent: no, it shouldn't.... special variables are primarily a backwards compatibility hack... there are lots of old lisp sources that use defvar to create dynamic variables, and don't expect lexical variables to exist at all. 20:09:09 felideon: well, more of a "this is a minimal web application, these are the steps." 20:09:21 the transcription is a lecture about the underlying technology. 20:09:24 the spec does mention earmuffs, though 20:09:26 drewc: I meant it only spec-wise, but I guess the spec allows anything then 20:09:29 madnificent: if it wasn't for the compromise, we'd probably have a much nicer mechanism for dynamic values. 20:09:47 prxq [n=mommer@f051166083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:09:49 (like the one in ISLISP) 20:09:52 clhs defvar 20:09:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpar.htm 20:10:01 in the notes of that page, it mentions *them* 20:10:03 drewc: could be 20:10:05 clisp in particular doesn't complain about anything related to dynamic variables. 20:10:21 sbcl actually throws up a warning 20:10:25 Bielefeldians? 20:10:56 which confused me at first, because I was working with PG's Ansi Common Lisp when I first started, and he just setf's stuff without the defvar/param/whatever 20:11:35 Fade: hah! now I know why topo refused to defvar/defparameter/let before 20:12:24 it was the first deficiency in that book I encountered, because it looked like a bug before Xach set me straight. :) 20:12:37 madnificent: check out DEFDYNAMIC in contextl.. i use it instead of special variables where ever possible. 20:12:49 Fade: i bet it wasn't the last though :P 20:12:56 i'm trying to create an array by known dimensions, but get stuck because make-array takes dimension parameters as a quoted list 20:13:04 well, i'm not as down on PG as you, but you're right. 20:14:07 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 20:14:08 guaqua: nonsense. a) what is a quoted list. b) what are you actually trying to do? 20:14:10 argh. nevermind, rubber duck worked 20:14:33 Fade: I'm up for it, probably once I finish digesting gettingstarted.txt 20:14:43 (make-hash (list (length list) other-dimension)) 20:14:57 felideon: I'd throw in on that 20:15:12 but for some odd reason i couldn't come up with the function list, but tried to go around it by quoting after reading clhs examples 20:15:14 hopefully we can get drewc to work up a skeleton and some notes. :) 20:16:09 Fade: isnt it enough that i write all this wonderful software for you... now you want me to tell you how to use it, and document it? :P 20:16:28 ah, drewc, the cross of the innovator is a heavy one. ;) 20:16:30 guaqua: sounds like you need a good book on the basics. 20:16:31 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 20:16:49 where is minion? i feex 20:16:51 drewc: i have my pcl here by my side :) 20:17:04 clhs make-hash 20:17:05 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for make-hash. 20:17:15 argh. make-array 20:17:16 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:17:16 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:17:20 :) 20:17:28 what an effect 20:17:32 i thinkt hat's your first problem. 20:17:35 lol 20:17:42 i did that, give it a second. 20:17:54 Fade: and put smanek's "smiple lisp webapp" post to shame. 20:17:58 nah, that was just a manifestation of the same problem that affected me earlier 20:18:55 drewc: that requires time :) 20:19:03 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:19:12 drewc: how does the backtrace look like for an error resulting from within a monad? Could you paste it? 20:19:17 I should check out contextl some day though 20:19:38 tcr: likely horrifying... hold. 20:20:35 Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:21:27 hi 20:22:29 drewc: where can I find some background material on how UCW implements call/cc? 20:23:59 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:08 felideon: how familar are you with call/cc and CPS in general? 20:24:20 tcr: heh... as suspected, there is none. 20:25:04 Well I guess that's fair, Could you paste the result having toggled details for the function's frame? 20:25:04 Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-15-218.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:13 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-68-55-210-226.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:25:19 marioxcc [n=user@200.66.24.114] has joined #lisp 20:25:34 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:40 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:11 drewc: not at all, just what's on Wikipedia. but I found this paper today http://www.springerlink.com/content/h5808n962434j275/fulltext.pdf which I want to read 20:27:25 felideon: excellent, i have an article i'm writing in which i attempt to explain continuations and how we use them in the context of web application 20:27:28 dnolen [n=dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 20:27:43 jfm3 [n=user@216.156.98.230.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:47 felideon: it's not finished, but if you'd like to read it i'd love to answer questions/get feedback 20:28:07 drewc: that'd be great 20:30:50 drewc: oh and I think I read Slava's (weblocks) article on continuations for the web at one point 20:30:58 adeht: I made the "rel" changes you asked about. How can I tell if they worked? 20:31:31 slava of factor fame? 20:31:39 Fade: slava of weblocks fame 20:31:41 coffeemug 20:31:50 ahh 20:32:10 gabnet [n=gabnet@7.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:18 felideon: ok... gimme a minute, i have to move a server 20:32:30 cl-net will be going away for ~10 minutes. 20:32:59 Fade: yeah that's why I made the distinction ;) 20:35:31 Xach: yep, they work 20:35:36 -!- parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:35:48 Xach: thanks 20:37:00 Xach: to see that it works you can go to http://xach.com/naggum/articles/3134756936126742@naggum.no.html using emacs-w3m and press the spacebar 20:37:06 timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:39:41 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 20:40:19 gonzojive [n=red@c-98-234-48-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:23 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:42:10 liar [n=liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at] has joined #lisp 20:43:03 pr [n=pr@p579CADE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:16 -!- lithper2 [n=chatzill@72.8.31.2] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 20:50:40 I like to use a vertical split to keep slime and and my current file handy, but word-wrap stops working in split windows... 20:51:55 In general, I suggest a separate frames setup 20:53:37 moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 20:54:08 I'll do that 20:54:14 Edward [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-41-167.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:56:01 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:06 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:00:39 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:00:39 is c-l.net alive for anyone? 21:00:49 cmm: down for 10 minutes per drewc 21:00:50 cl-net will be going away for ~10 minutes. 21:00:52 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:01:35 ah, OK, sorry. there it is, half a page up... 21:04:36 it seems to have saved the domains properly, so it should come back up without ever knowing it was down... we're just waiting on the techs to replace the power supply. 21:05:20 hrm.. org mode export is borken? this is new... what have i done. 21:05:21 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:06:30 -!- Edward [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-41-167.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:04 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:08:47 -!- Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:10:37 hrm ..htmlize is broken. 21:11:04 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:12:14 RaceCondition [n=RaceCond@82.131.66.125.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 21:12:28 TDT [n=dthole@dhcp80ff865b.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 21:12:29 Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 21:14:21 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:28 felideon: i really like the latest blog post! 21:15:32 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:16:54 drewc: heh, thanks! 21:17:22 Is it typical routine to use Ctrl+tab to switch from slime to an open file? 21:17:34 this seems so kludgy... 21:18:18 ... There's a keybinding for C-Tab in the SLIME REPL? 21:18:22 C-TAB works? 21:18:33 I always C-x o to other buffers 21:18:34 dys [n=andreas@krlh-5f726c82.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:35 chris___1: I use C-c s 21:18:47 *nyef* typically uses C-x b 21:19:08 I guess I should've said frames then 21:19:17 grumble... the new power supply is DOA. 21:19:21 chris___1: you mean to switch between frames? 21:19:30 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@pool-96-236-125-18.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:31 felideon: I agree. nice job 21:19:33 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-68-55-210-226.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:36 tcr: yes 21:19:40 chris___1: You have to resort to your window manager's key bindings for that; on Gnome, it's M-TAB 21:19:49 drewc: You sure it's the supply and not either the cable or the outlet? 21:20:18 tcr: ok that's what I'm doing,... I meant alt+tab 21:20:47 chris___1: I suggest to put (setq display-buffer-reuse-frames t) into your .emacs 21:21:01 ... "Wait, wait... Isn't M-Tab for symbol autocompletion in lisp buffers?" 21:21:20 nyef: Gnome hijacks quite some bindings 21:21:26 Yeah, I know. 21:21:32 chris___1: For example, with that you can use C-c C-z to switch frames 21:21:43 I got used to ESC- 21:21:46 And M-Tab is common as it's used in OSX and windows as well. 21:21:52 chris___1: I mean to switch to the repl frame from a .lisp frame 21:21:57 *Xach* binds slime-selector to C-c s and uses "C-c s r" about a million times a day 21:22:03 chris___1: for the other way around, you can take a look at the slime-selector 21:22:12 tcr: ah well that's nicer 21:22:16 *nyef* checks to see if he managed to add DontZap to his X config. 21:22:37 *prxq* .oO(the wikipedia page on monads could as well be written in klingon) 21:22:40 what's the .emacs setting to open things in new frames? 21:22:55 Hunh. It doesn't kill X anymore, but emacs doesn't pick it up as a keystroke. 21:23:34 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:23:40 nyef: yeah, pretty sure. 21:24:10 -!- gabnet [n=gabnet@7.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:24:36 prxq: i didn't understand what monads were until i started using them. In a dynamic language like lisp, they're little more than a generic function protocol that statisfies certain rules 21:24:40 I find it alarming that the page on mathematical monads makes about a 100 times more sense 21:24:54 well at least to me :o) 21:26:11 debian-startup.el:130:25:Warning: `mapcar' called for effect; use `mapc' or `dolist' instead 21:26:11 21:26:11 drewc: thanks for the hint. Truth be told, I did not get that either :-) 21:26:31 emacs23 ftw! 21:26:46 my migration to emacs23 release has not been without pain. 21:26:57 my fontlock was screwed with 'emacs --daemon' 21:26:59 Fade: is C-x 5 f too much? 21:27:07 moved to color-theme 21:27:14 rares [n=rares@174-26-90-76.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:26 Fade: you mentioned.. i'm migrating from -snapshot to 23 right now 21:27:26 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 21:27:28 tsuru: well, i do that all the time, but i meant the control for things that pop up new buffers, like slime. 21:27:44 -snapshot worked fine, but the emacs23 packages caused me some grief. 21:27:45 arnee [n=arnee@a89-182-195-48.net-htp.de] has joined #lisp 21:28:11 also, i wish americans would spell 'colour' correctly. :) 21:28:12 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:24 heh 21:28:46 Fade: somewhere i saw an emacs patch that used a single frame for each buffer. 21:29:06 when i used xemacs, it was just a toggle in the options menu. 21:29:08 Might make sense for something like stumpwm 21:29:10 that + some creative stumpwm would be almost perfect imo. 21:29:18 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:30:11 drewc: do you use stump? 21:30:26 Fade: framepop-disable maybe? 21:30:30 Fade: i do 21:31:14 I used it for a few months, but hated the way it dealt with transient windows like notifications. 21:34:22 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]"] 21:34:55 jfm3` [n=user@216.156.98.230.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:33 francogrex [n=user@135.101-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:35:41 -!- jfm3 [n=user@216.156.98.230.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:36:18 housel: Happen to be here? 21:36:21 Fade: it is trivially hackable you know... in a pretty decent language as well :P 21:36:56 oh, i know. i even took a crack at it and got some results, but my time for working on such things is limited by my real world obligations. :P 21:37:13 tcr: I happen to be, yes 21:37:59 i think sabetts is even a canuck. 21:38:12 although he's also forced to misspell 'colour'. ;) 21:38:34 no specbot? 21:38:47 Adlai: no cl-net .. give it five minutes 21:38:49 For people who are professors, or PhD students - I've been contemplating getting into the PhD program from the MCS program. I'm sure everywhere's different, but is it much better to find a faculty member willing to sponsor or just to apply and kinda hope for the best? 21:38:53 ah right 21:38:58 .oO(Would you like to take a tor of the Lincoln Memorial?) 21:39:28 housel: I suppose that typical Dylan development environments let you macroexpand an expression; how do you select the expression to be expanded? (Now that I've written the question, it occurs to me that Dylan syntax is still highly grouped, so I guess there is no real problem.) 21:39:41 -!- arnee [n=arnee@a89-182-195-48.net-htp.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:39:59 dylan... wow. 21:40:00 -!- a-s` [n=user@93.112.123.148] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:40:38 -!- Oddity [n=Oddity@66.183.67.202] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:41:07 cl-net is back, sorry for the unscheduled downtime! 21:41:26 tcr: If I recall correctly, it expands the highlighted selection 21:42:09 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:33 (I normally program in Emacs on FreeBSD, resorting to the IDE on Win32 when I need a backtrace) 21:42:43 TDT: I'd have thought that the better approach would be to find a local faculty member and ask their advice. 21:43:28 -!- marioxcc-AFK [n=user@200.66.24.114] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:43:39 marioxcc` [n=user@200.66.24.114] has joined #lisp 21:43:48 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:44:18 housel: Yes I guess that makes sense, with some auto-highlighting feature that highlights the respective group if you, e.g. double-click on "define" 21:44:40 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:45:12 they could have done that but I believe it didn't quite get developed that far 21:45:35 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:45:48 nyef: Yeah, I am...kinda trying to gather as much as possible to just know what works and what wouldn't 21:46:28 I gather Scott McKay had a philosophy against syntax highlighting or other sophisticated syntax-aware editing features 21:50:44 pr_ [n=pr@p579CA4A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:45 -!- anair_84 [n=anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:51:23 -!- emma [n=em@98.14.22.112] has quit [Client Quit] 21:51:37 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:52:19 triyo [n=triyo@dsl-245-151-134.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:53:49 -!- raison [n=raison@70.90.182.149] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:53:54 I don't seem to have auto parenthesis balancing working in emacs for my CL dev. Can anyone give me a hit how to get the auto paran balancing to work? 21:54:16 paredit 21:55:07 thx 21:55:08 triyo: are you new to CL? 21:55:38 paredit is critical to all lisp hacking. 21:55:40 -!- loxs [n=loxs@78.90.124.182] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:55:46 -!- alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:55:47 madnificent: pretty much 21:56:27 triyo: you may find that paredit is yet another thing to learn (albeit a very handy thing to learn). If that is so, you may get by by simply closing the parens yourself (with highlighting the matches) 21:57:27 Wait, what are you all on? M-( and M-) already! 21:57:44 Then start using prefix arguments with M-(. 21:57:44 you don't need paredit for paren matching 21:58:02 in fact it's hard to turn paren match flashing off in lisp modes 21:58:03 madnificent: thanks, the reason I asked is because I saw a screencast that shows paren auto balance and it looked very cool. Its so tedious to close the parens myself. 21:58:09 For that matter, before I started using M-(, I tended to open the parens in pairs and hit the left arrow. 21:58:33 triyo: if it looked fast, it probably was paredit 21:58:35 Since the paren keys are next to each other, it's simple enough to balance them at creation time. 21:59:04 One of the big wins about paredt for me is its handling of string literals, actually. 21:59:09 . 21:59:12 asd 21:59:16 oh sorry! 21:59:23 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has left #lisp 21:59:23 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:46 holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:47 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:59:53 nyef: i think most of us remember a time when all the parens were closed manually by various means. 22:00:11 Heh. I remember back before I started using SLIME. 22:00:21 -!- phf [n=user@host.icnfull.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:00:30 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:00:38 but the various kill/yank sexp features from paredit have become pretty important to my workflow. 22:00:45 there was this binding in slime which closes all open parenthesis 22:01:12 -!- Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-15-218.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:01:13 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:17 At least with paredit it's difficult to accidentally unbalance your parens. 22:01:19 I _think_ paredit leverages that feature. 22:01:26 And not particularly hard to re-balance them. 22:01:32 I especially like the splitting/slurping features 22:01:38 the problem with paredit is that it's often difficult to rebalance them if they get crooked. 22:01:51 Fade: C-q ) ? 22:01:58 (Or was that M-q ? 22:02:03 nyef: i unbalance them with copy-n-paste 22:02:14 i can't remember. i have to look up the command every time it happens. 22:02:20 Fade: I use yank kill and paste for that 22:02:31 Yeah, C-q. 22:02:32 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:02:40 C-q isn't handy on dvorak 22:02:50 b 22:03:00 if you're on dvorak, you're crazy enough that you'll have to cover your own ass, binding wise. :) 22:03:13 The reason I know it is for being able to use a literal ^I instead of tab in a few places. Or a ^J instead of return. 22:03:15 :P 22:03:23 and C-u C-d to delete without balancing 22:04:23 C-q is easy to remember, q is for "quote" 22:05:01 -!- Jabberwock [n=jens@port-9557.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:05:08 ... And here I thought q was for "paragraph" (see M-q, "fill-paragraph"). 22:05:13 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:05:27 hello 22:05:34 hello fe[nl]ix 22:05:41 nyef: aye. that's why I always wind up looking up the command. 22:05:44 hi madnificent 22:06:02 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:06:28 DrForr_ [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:45 What's pro vs contra in at&t vs intel syntax? Are there technical reasons to prefer one over the other? 22:06:57 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 22:07:13 -!- prxq [n=mommer@f051166083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:07:36 Intel syntax: The Standard, accepted by all -real- x86 assemblers and disassemblers. at&t syntax: That crap you have to deal with when working with the GNU toolchain. 22:08:09 SBCL syntax: What you should be using instead, and you -know- someone's been maniac enough to make it work. 22:08:19 in some circles that logic works inversely nyef ;) 22:08:26 the one pro for at&t is that it's slightly more regular, but that's not really important when you're *generating* it. 22:08:42 aka gnu is the real world, everything else is a fringe case 22:08:43 hm op src,dst seems more intuitive to my untrained eye :-) 22:09:13 how do we normally start the bots? anyone know? 22:09:29 drewc: Let me take a quick look. 22:09:32 tcr: heh, mov dst, src is more intuitive to my trained eye :) 22:09:49 tcr: assignment is right to left (: 22:11:34 do dst <- src, perhaps I'd prefer an asm monad 22:11:44 drewc: ISTR that it's done via a screen command to spawn a backgrounded screen running nanny-lisppaste.sh. 22:11:51 you're all deviant freaks. 22:11:59 nyef: yeah, but does anyone care what user the screen is run as? 22:12:04 lisppaste. 22:12:12 -!- rswarbrick [n=rupert@137.205.222.236] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:12:36 The real question I have is if there's a cron job or similar to start them on server reboot? 22:12:36 Do I have to do something now to activate the auto paren balancing? I have installed paredit and have update my .emacs file + reloaded. 22:12:55 triyo: enable paredit-mode. 22:13:17 there's code in the paredit.el comment to drop in your .emacs file that associates paredit with lisp buffers. 22:13:58 -!- ramus_ is now known as ramus 22:14:00 Oh sweet :) 22:14:05 got it working now 22:14:27 nyef: temporary gas seem to support intel syntax, too; probably you knew this already, though 22:15:10 drewc: Bots coming up now. 22:15:49 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:15:50 Turns out the command is screen -S lisppaste sh nanny-lisppaste.sh followed by a detach. 22:17:20 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:17:48 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:22 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:26 how can I put something like "print" statements in small details of a complex code to try to understand what it's dong but of course without disrupting... would trace work? 22:21:02 ... Note to self: Do -something- about the miscellaneous unexplained delays in the lisppaste startup... And possibly resequence the startup so that it can be partially useful before everything is ready. 22:21:15 multiple-value-print works :) 22:21:28 PROGN and FORMAT? 22:21:37 -!- DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:21:49 -!- marioxcc` is now known as marioxcc-AFK 22:21:54 erk [n=MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 22:22:00 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:18 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as Guest42158 22:22:33 <_3b> PRINT is good for dumping return values without interfereing with them being returned 22:23:06 but not multiple values 22:23:07 <_3b> single return values that is 22:23:35 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:42 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:50 print doesn't disrput somting like (funcall #'func ...) to stick (funcall (print ... 22:23:51 nyef: what does lisppaste use as a persistence scheme? 22:24:10 Fade: flat file, iirc. 22:24:12 Fade: Flat files. 22:24:20 -!- varjag [n=eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:24:20 ah. 22:24:23 With no #$@%^@ offline index. 22:24:34 So the entire mess has to be re-indexed at every startup. 22:24:40 so it has to rebuild the index every time it restarts? right. 22:24:45 nyef: high time to change that? 22:24:56 At least now it doesn't store all of the paste files in the same damned directory. 22:25:16 nyef: sucky FS :p 22:25:30 did chandler do all the bots? 22:26:07 ... Err, actually, looks like they -are- all in one directory still, but the hook is there to make fixing that possible. 22:26:21 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has joined #lisp 22:26:55 AFAIK, chandler did most/all of the original work. 22:27:02 *nod* 22:27:11 does anyone know if you can write a handler in hunchentoot that would automatically extra the "id" in a requestion like this: /view/id? 22:27:22 I did some debugging back when, and some massive refactoring more recently. 22:27:31 i want to be able to do that instead of creating urls like /view/?id=10 22:27:35 nyef: are they in a public repository? 22:27:50 I believe so. 22:27:56 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:27:57 At least, parts of the system are. 22:28:04 And there's also the source-server thing. 22:28:22 Err... system-server. 22:28:47 cools: I guess you could set up a hash table to dispatch handlers on /view/ 22:28:52 If you look at the bottom of paste.lisp.org, there's a linke titled "Source", which is the files running on the system now. 22:29:01 ah, cool 22:29:57 I suspect that parts of the system are modified from their upstream repositories and not actually committed anywhere, but I don't know for sure. 22:30:55 pitfalls of live hacking, I guess. 22:31:45 No, the pitfalls of live hacking were the few times I broke the system for a few minutes while refactoring. 22:32:14 some packages have ;;; -*- Mode: Lisp; Package: CCL -*- in the first line. which package use that variable package? 22:32:26 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:32:40 I am getting a warning every time. 22:32:42 leo2007: Typically, whatever inferior-lisp mode you have running for your emacs. 22:33:12 but as far as I know, 'package' isn't a variable in any Emacs packages. 22:33:25 Really, it's from back before people regularly put in-package forms at the top and before the integrations had the brains to look for said in-package forms. 22:33:32 leo2007: Eli makes use of that, and slime perhaps, too, I forgot 22:33:39 But it's also for other editors, such as Zmacs, etc. 22:34:25 leo2007: if you don't want warnings, then set enable-local-variables to :safe 22:34:33 -!- postamar [n=postamar@AMarseille-252-1-84-139.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 22:34:46 indeed in general (that's the operative word) sprinkling a code with "print" doesn't disrupt its flow! It's better than trace for what I need 22:35:42 TR2N` [n=email@89.180.228.84] has joined #lisp 22:35:49 stassats`: thanks. But I am just curious why some weird local variables are used in lisp files. 22:36:20 leo2007, I put on all my files ;;;; -*- Mode: Lisp; indent-tabs-mode: nil -*- 22:36:38 nyef: it seems unwise to cater for a minor editor while annoying those using Emacs. 22:37:04 Adlai: that's fine. it is legitimate emacs local variable.s 22:37:07 mbohun [n=mbohun@202.124.72.169] has joined #lisp 22:37:49 It seems unwise to not cater to the editing environment used by the primary maintainer. 22:39:24 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:40:19 ok. I can live with that. 22:41:45 abugosh [n=Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 22:42:26 Oddity [n=Oddity@66.183.67.202] has joined #lisp 22:42:37 dejones [n=dejones@cpe-70-124-77-66.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:02 -!- triyo [n=triyo@dsl-245-151-134.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [] 22:44:53 -!- Guest42158 is now known as marioxcc 22:45:23 -!- marioxcc is now known as Guest31503 22:47:05 -!- Guest31503 is now known as marioxcc` 22:49:56 from PCL: "the built-in method combinations don't support :before or :after methods" <-- why is that? is this a technical limitation or the opposite just wouldn't make sense? 22:50:55 seangrove [n=user@adsl-99-175-103-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:05 I'd assume the latter, but I'm not sure 22:51:09 *Adlai* suspects the latter, too 22:51:13 ... I'd have thought that the -default- method combination would support them. 22:51:38 nyef, I think RaceCondition is talking about the combinations like +, progn, etc 22:51:40 I can see it not making sense for something like progn, though. 22:52:11 hmm, I can see it not making sense for + and AND and OR, but for progn it definitely makes sense... imho 22:53:14 RaceCondition: Agreed. I have just finished with some code where I had to simulate :after using :around on a PROGN. 22:53:59 rpg: good :P 22:54:02 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.235.181] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:54:37 It was tempting to modify using the MOP, but ultimately, I decided that was pointlessly "elegantizing" 22:55:15 rpg, do you count define-method-combination as MOP? 22:55:21 what's MOP? 22:55:30 Adlai: Yes, you are right, that was inexact of me. 22:55:31 meta-object protocol 22:55:39 RaceCondition, http://lisp.org/mop 22:55:57 I always forget that that's part of CLOS proper, since it has such a meta feel to it. 22:56:14 ruediger [n=the-rued@91-115-177-214.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:56:24 minion: AMOP? 22:56:25 AMOP: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.lisp.org/mop/ 22:56:40 -!- TDT [n=dthole@dhcp80ff865b.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has left #lisp 22:59:13 why would Marco have define-method-combination in a MOP compatibility layer, called mop.lisp? 22:59:54 felideon: ... If some implementations are broken in some respect? 23:00:27 abcl, for example, doesn't support long form of d-m-c 23:00:31 Alternately, it might be to paper over differences in package naming... 23:00:34 nyef: Or if they disagree on how some names are mapped onto packages... 23:00:42 nyef: jinx! 23:00:47 (Doubtful, though, as d-m-c runs from cl.) 23:00:50 nyef: that seems to be the case, correct 23:00:52 clhs d-m-c? 23:00:53 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for d-m-c?. 23:00:55 clhs d-m-c 23:00:55 DEFINE-METHOD-COMBINATION: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_4.htm 23:01:28 -!- borism [n=boris@213-35-233-107-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:01:49 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.66.130] has joined #lisp 23:03:32 -!- pr_ [n=pr@p579CA4A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 23:03:44 well he has http://common-lisp.net/project/bese/repos/arnesi_dev/src/mop.lisp and http://common-lisp.net/project/bese/repos/arnesi_dev/src/mopp.lisp 23:06:58 konr` [n=user@187.88.102.65] has joined #lisp 23:07:26 borism [n=boris@213-35-233-107-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 23:08:20 -!- francogrex [n=user@135.101-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:09:33 -!- konr` [n=user@187.88.102.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:50 -!- konr [n=user@187.88.102.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:52 konr` [n=user@187.88.102.65] has joined #lisp 23:10:52 felideon: mop.lisp is mop utilites, mopp.lisp is portable mop 23:11:04 -!- marioxcc` is now known as marioxcc 23:11:08 felideon: re-writing ucw and arnesi to talk to contextl would be a welcome patch 23:11:38 Are these alternatives to Pascal Costanza's Closer-MOP? 23:11:58 err s/contextl/closer-mop 23:12:13 rpg: precursors rather than alternatives 23:12:27 drewc: ah. Thanks. 23:12:38 We use Pascal's stuff.... 23:12:46 as you should. 23:15:56 yes, sorry to mention it. it says it in the comments :) 23:16:08 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@188-23-187-107.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:18:13 My question was more like, how does define-method-combination relate to MOP, if it is actually part of CLOS. (my knowledge of MOP is close to nil) 23:19:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit ["Valete!"] 23:20:05 Blkt [n=user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-240-128.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 23:20:46 -!- jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-201.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit ["good night/day everyone"] 23:21:17 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757af0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:21:21 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 23:21:33 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@91-115-177-214.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:22:33 -!- Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 23:23:51 mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:32 clhs define-method-combination 23:24:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_4.htm 23:25:01 felideon: it's not really useful to try and separate CLOS and the MOP 23:25:17 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:25:17 -!- mattrepl_ is now known as mattrepl 23:25:25 just pretend the mop is part of the hyperspec and you'll save yourself a lot of pain :) 23:25:31 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:02 drewc: Isn't that a little bit broad for people using implementations w/o full MOP? 23:26:27 Dawgmatic [n=dawgmati@c-24-0-144-159.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:44 rpg: i consider a lack of decent MOP a bug, and would suggest people avoid such implementations. 23:26:45 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 23:27:07 clhs even mentions MOP, like in slot-value 23:27:13 rpg: especially when, as felideon is, they're using mop-heavy code written by yours truely. 23:27:18 drewc: e.g., I think ABCL doesn't have full MOP, but I could imagine someone devoted to the JVM would want to use it... 23:27:21 -!- jfm3` [n=user@216.156.98.230.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:27:32 Use of the MOP protocol from AMOP is recommended in CLHS somewhere, but not actually required. 23:28:05 "strongly encouraged" 23:28:07 rpg: do the ABCL developers consider the lack of full MOP a feature, or are they aiming for compliance at some point? 23:28:19 rpg: ABCL is closette based, is it not? 23:28:32 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:28:54 in my understanding, they're aiming for compliance 23:29:01 i mean... it's the MOP.. CDR #1 is the mop, it's always been used to implement CLOS... 23:29:24 it's not like sb-sequence or something ... the MOP predates the ANSI spec. 23:29:45 I believe they are aiming for compliance... 23:31:15 drewc: I installed ABCL once, but the absence of MOP was a show-stopper for me. Haven't looked at it in a few months. 23:31:16 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:31:21 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-102.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 23:32:33 drewc: sounds good, thanks 23:33:45 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229177175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 23:34:56 rpg: ok, so my point stands :). 23:35:33 felideon: thing is, you don't need to know the MOP to use CLOS any more than you need to understand the reader in order to use the repl. It helps though. 23:35:54 pem_ [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has joined #lisp 23:36:45 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has left #lisp 23:38:00 Xach_ [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:38:00 -!- Xach [n=xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:39:21 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:39:53 drewc: gotcha 23:39:59 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:41:36 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:44:27 -!- dabd [n=user@a85-139-105-54.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:44:59 ... 2.4.8.6 says "#.foo is read as the object resulting from the evaluation of the object represented by foo." Does anyone have a counterargument for the interpretation that the consequences are undefined if foo evaluates to either zero or more than one value? 23:45:06 dabd [n=user@a85-139-105-54.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 23:45:54 -!- alexbobp_ is now known as alexbobp 23:48:27 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:49:01 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@69.38.240.242] has quit [] 23:49:27 nyef: doesn't this admit the standard interpretation that we drop the > 1 value? 23:49:33 devslashnull [n=nope@dyn-151.greentreefrog.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:50:18 I'm going to argue not, as that particular license is dependent on the use of the word "value". 23:50:38 This particular part of the spec does not refer to values, it refers to objects. 23:50:40 Thus, no. 23:50:50 nyef: and what about (setf foo (values)) |= foo = nil... 23:51:06 nyef: what is an "object" in this context? 23:51:08 That doesn't involve the #. reader macro. 23:51:31 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:52:10 Ah, so we have to go back and define "resulting from the evaluation of X". 23:52:55 rpg: isn't equal? what's it equal to? 23:53:18 stassats`: that was my pseudo-mathmode for something like "derives" 23:53:29 stassats`: that was a vbar, not a bang... 23:53:42 s/derives/evaluates to/ 23:53:52 rpg: Also note that if FOO is a symbol-macro in your example then it could expand to something that accepts multiple values when setf'd. 23:53:53 -!- Xach_ is now known as Xach 23:54:07 nyef: right. 23:54:11 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.198.57] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:54:23 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.198.57] has joined #lisp 23:54:41 I'm not seeing "result" in the glossary. 23:54:52 *rpg* needs to reread the semantics of setf methods... 23:55:32 -!- Dawgmatic [n=dawgmati@c-24-0-144-159.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:56:26 nyef: So that would mean we can't do (multiple-value-setq (foo bar) #.(values 1 2)) ... 23:56:31 I have an interpretation through a mention of "resulting" in 3.1.2.1.1 which would mean that #.(values) => NIL, wihch should cause problems from some people nicely... 23:56:40 fe[nl]ix pasted "#." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93711 23:56:44 rpg: Well, why would you be able to anyway? 23:57:19 nyef: Right, since we are evaluating that at read time.... 23:57:42 fe[nl]ix: Alternately, drop the LET and just have the EVAL in the tail position, which would allow for eliding any result from #.(values), similarly to ;. 23:58:00 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:58:05 nyef: why would #.(values) => nil cause problems?