00:00:00 No, but I copy-and-paste :-) 00:00:17 pjb: I prefer Know What You're Doing to that kind of rule :) 00:00:33 RecycledCorn spam 00:00:59 ben_m, some lisps have an option to have the default readtable-case be :PRESERVE, and to have all 00:00:59 built-in symbol-names be lowercase. 00:04:03 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:04:10 -!- RecycledCorn [n=Recycled@ip72-207-23-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:04:36 I just defined a package that only uses :cl in my .ccl-init.lisp, that's the cleanest solution imo 00:04:36 xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 00:05:22 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:05:22 usually you're experimenting within the context of a project and one of its corresponding packages anyway 00:05:46 ben_m: you'll reconsider that opinion some time soon :) 00:05:51 yeah, but I'm playing in the REPL a lot too 00:06:00 rahul: How come? 00:06:24 ben_m: because you'll get used to proper development practices and experimenting with building applications will not happen in cl-user any more 00:07:03 as it is, you've just done all the work and reaped none of the reward of such practices :) 00:07:18 well, none of the long term reward 00:07:24 I do use files too 00:07:32 But when I try out something, like a library, I do it in the REPL 00:07:52 And I don't want to remember having to purge the CL-USER package :/ 00:08:09 ben_m: it doesn't matter, you can do in-package in the REPL as well 00:08:19 I've got a mkupack function to make a new, temporary, user package like COMMON-LISP-USER, and enter it. 00:08:53 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 00:09:52 -!- legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-44-33.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:10:51 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:13:29 ben_m, you could put pjb's cl-user-scrubbing code in your .ccl-init.lisp 00:14:05 I thought about what you said and just used (in-package :iterate) 00:14:08 *ben_m* feels stupid 00:14:17 I put most of my init code in ~/common.lisp and load this file from the various implementation specific initial file. 00:22:27 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-195-48.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:25:12 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.196.12] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:25:18 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:33:43 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-195-48.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:35:24 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["bed"] 00:35:32 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-243-17.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:36:40 -!- davazp [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:41:27 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has 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error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:30:54 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 01:31:40 -!- timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:32:37 anyone here work on climacs? had a couple of generic questions 01:38:37 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-213-153.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:39:01 Oddity [n=Oddity@99.199.136.138] has joined #lisp 01:47:05 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-31-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:25 gko [n=gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 02:14:10 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:15:13 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:15:58 rares [n=rares@174-22-228-98.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:47 seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:31 konr [n=user@187.88.190.77] has joined #lisp 02:29:02 derrida [n=derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 02:29:23 yay, bitvectors in sbcl are making my searches really fast. 02:29:41 -!- ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:30:30 I hear clozure is so great, what do you people think about it? 02:31:01 ben_m: I think it is great. 02:31:22 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:31:41 reasons being ...? :) 02:31:56 ben_m: it has a much faster compiler than SBCL 02:31:56 I noticed it has threads built in, which is great. 02:32:44 TDT [n=dthole@173-30-223-49.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:33:17 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:33:49 ben_m: I think multiple mature, capable implementations is a sign of good health, and while I don't use clozure cl, it seems to be going strong, under active development by smart people. 02:33:57 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 02:34:40 developing in parallel in both CCL and SBCL is quite nice, too, in my experience :) 02:35:47 Xach: Yeah, it's probably a good sign that there are multiple active CL implementations 02:36:04 I still wonder what the most compellin reasons for ccl are 02:36:44 ben_m: again, its compiler is very fast, and it makes recompiling stuff during development less painful. 02:36:45 ben_m: Fast compiler, good threads across OSes, Cocoa integration if you're on OS X  02:37:29 I see :) 02:37:32 (and also some Cocoa integration on Windows, too, but Cocotron isn't exactly something that can be relied on yet) 02:37:42 *stassats`* likes to optimize code by switching from ccl to sbcl in slime 02:37:52 the implementation itself is also quite nice, overall. It doesn't just have excellent thread support, but it seems pretty stable at handling them. Its hash-tables are also lock-free thread-safe. 02:37:53 I wonder if that Cocoa integration could be useful for iphone development 02:37:55 to add a few more specific things: precise GC, pretty good slime integration, very fast generic function dispatch, several weak datastructures, and did I mention the lock-free thread-safe hashtables? 02:38:19 gah, sykopomp beat me to them 02:38:20 Adlai: you didn't mention them, but I did >:D 02:38:22 haha 02:38:31 but I beat you to mentioning that you beat me! 02:38:37 crikey 02:39:06 recursive joke is recursive 02:39:28 ccl got good hashtables because sbcl optimized away hashtable access away in a benchmark 02:39:44 too much away 02:39:52 holycow, I think you mean #1=(recursive joke is . #1#) 02:40:00 heh 02:40:22 Adlai: that makes me #1=(:D . #1#) 02:40:41 ikki [n=ikki@189.247.73.249] has joined #lisp 02:41:01 *Adlai* shudders to remember discovering a commit where sykopomp sprinkled :D and ;P in obscure parts of the codebase 02:41:09 >:D 02:41:26 ./me tries to derail this thread with a >_< 02:41:45 interesting notes on closure, danke for that 02:42:38 closure, the web-browser? 02:43:02 s=z 02:47:22 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:30 cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 02:52:45 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:54:27 tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:00 holycow: I think you mean Clozure, the UK boy band. 02:55:06 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:56:15 I think you mean Clojure, the trickster that tries to hide his ugly nature with lots of pretty make up. 02:56:27 there's still place for a girl band Clojure 02:58:28 I think you mean Closure, a set of javascript tools created by Google to help developers build rich web applications. 02:58:46 If only they had called those "Jiggaboo". 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has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:09:31 -!- AndChat| [n=AndChat@m545e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:11:02 03:11:26 *Xach* is pleased with his fast & dumb search program. hooray for bitvectors, bit-and, and bit-andc2! 03:11:48 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.157.253] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:12:13 ! 03:12:15 searching for any number of terms takes about 0.0002 seconds 03:12:50 -!- bipt [i=bpt@cpe-075-182-095-015.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:20:04 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d817765.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:25 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-26-36.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 03:27:35 oh, heh. i see what you guys were saying. there is clozure and clojure. weird. 03:30:10 ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 03:31:33 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 03:31:40 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has 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05:11:12 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:11:37 -!- alxconn [n=alxconn@c-24-15-46-226.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:13:17 alxconn [n=alxconn@c-24-15-46-226.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:33 lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-220-022.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:57 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:17:28 -!- fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:17:38 fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:25 How do I undefine a struct? 05:22:51 unintern its name and pray 05:22:58 and pray? 05:23:14 not sure about the latter, but I think the former is the way to go. 05:23:35 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:23:49 'kay 05:25:55 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:27 Ralith: the pray part is in stopping using it. 05:27:04 Notice that UNINTERN applies onto a symbol, not a structure. 05:28:29 yCrazyEdd [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 05:29:46 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:29:46 -!- yCrazyEdd is now known as CrazyEddy 05:30:35 -!- lpolzer__ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-218-150.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:32:13 mikezor [n=mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:33:12 You could try fmakunbound on the struct accessors. 05:33:25 I think a better answer might be "you can't." 05:34:07 You can render the structures useless, but you can't erase the definitions the way you can a function or method definition. 05:34:10 Good night! 05:34:37 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-29-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 05:49:02 -!- blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:51:05 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 05:51:18 Is there a standard verison of #'apply for vectors? 05:52:27 no 05:53:30 if you know the length of your vectors, it'll probably be more efficient to use funcall and svref each element, rather than just (apply fn (coerce vec 'list)) 05:53:40 'kay 06:00:11 case can be used on characters, right? 06:00:23 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-195-48.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:00:47 seangrov` [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:52 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 06:02:03 -!- ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:02:18 yep 06:06:18 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:11:53 strings? 06:11:58 No. 06:12:07 oh, right, I remember. 06:12:07 'kay 06:13:51 ski [n=slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:14:09 dyCrazyEd [n=CrazyEdd@220-253-114-109.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:15:23 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@75-92-29-226.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:24 -!- dyCrazyEd is now known as CrazyEddy 06:16:00 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:17:50 Ralith: you don't remember enough. Use the Hyperspec! 06:17:52 http://www.bobhobbs.com/files/kr_lovecraft.html "The hideous language of the Old Ones." 06:20:39 PatrickMcLaren [n=Patrick@CPE-138-217-214-253.lns1.fli.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:21:52 pjb: >_> 06:24:29 plage [n=user@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 06:24:29 Ralith, if you're looking for efficient dispatch on strings, pkhuong has a string-case macro which compiles into more efficient code than just cond + string= -- http://www.discontinuity.info/~pkhuong/string-case.lisp 06:24:49 Good afternoon #lisp! Say hello to the students of PUF Vietnam, please! 06:25:04 Gooooood morning, Vietnam! 06:25:20 ud [i=ud@ud.net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:25:27 Thanks sykopomp. How are you today? 06:25:49 plage: excited. Just launched my first project at my new workplace :) 06:26:03 sykopomp: Great! Does it use Lisp? 06:26:06 good morning plage and students 06:26:11 hey Adlai 06:26:35 plage: I actually tested it using Lisp :D 06:26:43 Excellent! 06:26:49 Adlai: yeah, I saw 06:26:52 not performance sensitive though 06:27:16 In about 4 minutes, I start my first of two two-hour seminars about Lisp here. 06:27:20 plage: software testers get more leeway as far as that goes, I guess. 06:27:28 ooh. That's pretty exciting. 06:27:48 Yeh, If they have questions, I might bounce them on #lisp. 06:28:20 I'll make sure my paren stockpile is ready. 06:28:30 Heh, thanks! 06:28:39 Adlai: and my #1=(:D . #1#) 06:28:55 Anything exciting that I have missed? 06:29:01 Elegeant weapons for a more civilized age 06:29:43 plage, are these the same students you've been mentoring already (maus, vng, &co), or new ones? 06:29:53 there was some chatting about Clozure CL earlier, which was pretty nice. 06:30:13 maus and vng are here, but there are a dozen or so new ones. 06:30:48 sykopomp: I shall have to come back to that later. Now I have to start my talk. 06:31:03 plage: have fun! (your students, too) 06:31:11 Thanks sykopomp 06:31:12 plage, it's great that you've found a group of students to learning lisp! good luck. 06:31:54 Gee whiz, I sure wish -my- professors had taught Lisp :P 06:32:34 sykopomp: Lee Spector was at the school when you were :P 06:32:41 longkid [n=lisp@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 06:32:44 ianmcorvidae: "was"? 06:32:46 is he gone now? 06:32:53 oh, no 06:32:59 oh good 06:33:00 but still: professor who does Lisp :) 06:33:21 yeah, but not like Hamp ever used it. 06:33:36 all students ever got was Processing and Steve >:( 06:33:55 true, true 06:34:00 STEVE! 06:34:02 Steve's getting cycled out, thank god 06:34:08 whoa, really? 06:34:14 yeah :) 06:34:19 With marco's thing? 06:34:19 Steve? 06:34:25 Lee taught a Scheme-rooted course last semester (I was the TA, lol) 06:34:27 Adlai: Steve. 06:34:40 Adlai: terrible terrible language that works in this agent-based AI system called breve 06:34:55 agents and steves and breves, oh my! 06:35:20 it's probably the worst thing I've ever (attempted) to program in, and I used VB6 :) 06:35:22 ianmcorvidae: does that mean that breve went down with the ship, too? 06:35:35 breve's getting cycled out, yeah 06:35:45 I think the guy who made it isn't maintaining it or something 06:36:01 yeah, I got that talk from marco. 06:36:14 what's replacing breve, then? 06:36:38 whatever the professors want to use, I guess 06:36:39 What will they run Quidditch sims on now?! 06:36:45 haha 06:36:46 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:37:12 so, since Lee's influential, hopefully more lispy stuff (haven't gotten any CL in yet, but at least the one Scheme course) 06:37:51 getting CL in would be pretty badass, but it might ruffle some feathers, too :< 06:38:23 I know when I took some courses over at UMass, Lisp was a dirty word 06:38:46 Java and Design Patterns, on the other hand, was all the buzz :D 06:39:38 well, but this is already Hampshire -- the name of the college is practically a dirty word in some classes at other places :P 06:40:01 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@75-92-29-226.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:40:34 heh 06:40:41 minion: tell me about SBCL 06:40:42 plage: please look at SBCL: Steel Bank Common Lisp is an open source / free software Common Lisp implementation. http://www.cliki.net/SBCL 06:40:55 ianmcorvidae: I'm thinking of trying to fly over there for deathfest. We'll see if it works out :) 06:41:08 that would be excellent, if you can :D 06:41:28 are you DMing this year? :) 06:41:28 (because, of course, deathfest is wonderful) 06:41:59 I may be? They'll no doubt need to replace some people for the Spring and I'll probably try out -- but, no information on that yet. 06:42:04 minion: tell me about PCL 06:42:05 plage: direct your attention towards PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 06:42:24 sounds like plage is directing those students well :) 06:44:05 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@75-92-29-226.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:34 ianmcorvidae: Thanks! 06:45:53 clhs defclass 06:45:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm 06:47:02 clhs + 06:47:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_pl.htm 06:47:24 yeah, sorry about the noise guys. 06:47:36 clhs accessor 06:47:37 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for accessor. 06:48:18 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:50:21 -!- hohum [i=dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:50:55 redblue [i=star@ppp023.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:51:47 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@75-92-29-226.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 06:52:16 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp023.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 06:54:02 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:24 pkhuong: you about? 07:02:35 anyone have sb-cga working? 07:03:30 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:06:28 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit ["=> work"] 07:07:12 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@75-92-29-226.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:00 -!- PatrickMcLaren [n=Patrick@CPE-138-217-214-253.lns1.fli.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 07:13:43 Intensity [i=[exNgvKL@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 07:14:06 PatrickMcLaren [n=Patrick@CPE-138-217-214-253.lns1.fli.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:14:18 -!- PatrickMcLaren [n=Patrick@CPE-138-217-214-253.lns1.fli.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 07:18:30 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:27:38 minion: are you a bot? 07:27:39 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 07:31:13 dang [n=lisp@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 07:31:36 hello 07:31:55 hello longkid 07:31:56 longkid: hello, dang 07:33:03 clhs defclass 07:33:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm 07:33:38 tell me about pcl 07:33:59 minion: tell me about pcl 07:34:01 dang: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 07:34:08 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 07:34:46 minion: tell me about AA exam 07:34:47 dang: you speak nonsense 07:35:10 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Client Quit] 07:35:25 blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:04 minion:tell me about advanced algorithm exam 07:36:17 Mankichi1 [n=lisp@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 07:36:37 Hello Dang 07:37:27 -!- Mankichi1 [n=lisp@113.161.70.106] has quit [Client Quit] 07:38:07 minion: do you think dang speaks nonsense? 07:38:07 here i am, brain the size of a planet, and all i do is answer your silly questions all day... maybe you have time to think dang speaks nonsense 07:38:29 Mankichi1 [n=lisp@113.161.70.110] has joined #lisp 07:39:58 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:40:11 good morning 07:40:36 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 07:41:16 jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-14-99.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:41:19 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@75-92-29-226.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:42:38 -!- seangrov` [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:11 soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 07:44:50 minion: Are you evil? 07:44:51 no 07:45:00 minion: Are you sure? 07:45:01 yes 07:46:08 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 07:46:50 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.157.253] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:50:29 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 07:50:38 minion: Are you good? 07:50:38 no 07:50:44 minion: Are you sure? 07:50:44 yes 07:51:20 Does CFFI have something like an "auto-free" macro? (AFAIK CLOS doesn't have a destructor method, so when getting rid of objects using C structs, one still needs to call a free method) 07:51:58 I mean, something like the one I've written here: http://paste.lisp.org/+1ZXJ 07:52:22 jtza8: have you had a look at CFFI manual? 07:52:54 hmm... that would be a good idea >.< 07:53:41 there's a (with-) macro that probably does what you want 07:53:50 is it possible to generate a NAN on SBCL without it exploding? 07:53:50 with-foreign-somethingorother ... 07:55:08 nostoi [n=nostoi@33.Red-81-44-159.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:17 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:55:40 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:58:14 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f755941.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:43 mle: have you tried to read one from a file? 07:59:49 a binary file. 08:00:31 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:00:45 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f755941.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:01:39 mle: I don't see one in the index... It should work on CLOS objects that might need more than a simple free. 08:01:52 *jtza8* bbl 08:02:43 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 08:03:04 akar [n=oijhif@92.82.95.9] has joined #lisp 08:06:58 pjb: I think you mean Ralith... 08:08:13 Oops, sorry. 08:08:31 pjb: haven't 08:08:47 casting around for ways to hack sb-cga into a more-or-less compilable state 08:10:03 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 08:10:30 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:11:20 -!- akar [n=oijhif@92.82.95.9] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:15:12 akar [n=oijhif@92.82.95.9] has joined #lisp 08:18:45 -!- longkid [n=lisp@113.161.70.106] has left #lisp 08:18:46 -!- dang [n=lisp@113.161.70.106] has left #lisp 08:20:40 lpolzer_, I see that paktahn 0.8.2 is out! 08:20:46 *Adlai* pacman -S paktahn 08:21:23 ooh! 08:23:11 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:23:47 Adlai: changelog link handy? 08:23:48 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 08:24:20 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:25:41 Ralith, doesn't look like there's a centralized changelog -- check out the git repo and log at git-log? 08:27:47 OK, thanks for your patience. Next seminar in 22 hours. See you then if not before. 08:32:43 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 08:33:25 -!- plage [n=user@113.161.70.106] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:33:29 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 08:34:10 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:38:29 swathanthran [n=user@117.204.92.21] has joined #lisp 08:38:47 splittist [i=513ec7a1@gateway/web/freenode/x-kxpwwtkpyiradwqb] has joined #lisp 08:38:51 morning 08:39:06 ASau [n=user@77.246.231.66] has joined #lisp 08:39:22 morning 08:41:43 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:43:46 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:44:36 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 08:47:02 -!- akar [n=oijhif@92.82.95.9] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:50:26 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:51:01 -!- soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:52:09 balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-99-162-211-249.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:30 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:55:05 If I push a function onto a list, then save-lisp-and-die, and then reload the image, is the function still valid? e.g. (pushnew 'init-ttf sdl:*startup*) 08:55:54 balooga, yeah, it should be. I think the only things that get invalidated between images are foreign data. 08:56:30 Adlai: Ok, thanks. 08:56:37 -!- Mankichi1 [n=lisp@113.161.70.110] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:59:05 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:02:09 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 09:03:21 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:04:45 HG` [n=HG@xdsleu016.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:06:50 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:11:24 lichtblau [n=user@pD95427D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:12:02 mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 09:12:17 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:14:18 c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.157.253] has joined #lisp 09:20:36 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 09:22:33 sekon [n=Code@support.deeproot.co.in] has joined #lisp 09:22:58 -!- sekon [n=Code@support.deeproot.co.in] has left #lisp 09:23:04 -!- jyujin_ [n=mdeining@vs166245.vserver.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:23:07 jyujin [n=mdeining@vs166245.vserver.de] has joined #lisp 09:23:31 brandelune [n=suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:32:10 -!- zombie_ [n=zombie@99-61-160-133.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:34:56 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@33.Red-81-44-159.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 09:37:02 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:42:05 jtza8: trivial-garbage might be what you're looking for 09:42:53 saba [n=saba@94.136.88.17] has joined #lisp 09:44:13 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:48:36 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:49:58 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:53:16 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.248.155] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:55:22 -!- bipt` [i=bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:56:02 hey 09:56:10 how can i expand compiler macro? 09:56:25 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:56:45 clhs funcall 09:56:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_funcal.htm 09:56:52 clhs compiler-macro-function 09:56:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp_ma.htm 09:57:21 Dodek, now put them together, and remember to pass an environment argument (NIL should suffice) 09:58:01 -!- mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:58:07 Dodek: M-x slime-compiler-macro-expand 09:58:25 ok, thank you guys 09:58:44 oooh! tcr, that's good to know. Thanks for pointing it out. 09:59:24 levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-89-223-197-69.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:59:56 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:11 hello 10:00:37 Has anybody information on the status of dwim.hu? Getting defclass-star seems to be a little problem right now. 10:00:47 mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 10:01:08 mgr, yes I do 10:01:23 the server is being replaced 10:01:34 http://www.cliki.net/defclass-star -> http://www.cliki.net/defclass* -> http://common-lisp.net/project/defclass-star/ -> http://dwim.hu/project/hu.dwim.defclass-star and that host is dead. 10:02:04 and the old repository on common-lisp.net doesn't want to give it to me. 10:02:12 levente_meszaros: ah, ok 10:02:31 -!- cupe [n=cupe@213.133.102.28] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:02:33 mgr, the old repo should work 10:02:40 cupe [n=cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has joined #lisp 10:02:46 the new will be up and running today I hope 10:02:48 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:03:48 levente_meszaros: ok, it seems to check-out. I was distracted by the warning "CRC errors found", but it seems ok. 10:04:00 levente_meszaros: thank you. 10:04:16 mgr, that's probably because of different darcs versions 10:05:59 Adlai, Ralith: take a look at the NEWS file or the announcement blog post: http://blog.viridian-project.de/2010/01/10/paktahn-0-8-2-released/ 10:06:01 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit ["restarting irssi bah"] 10:06:22 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@student167-152.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 10:06:45 Guys, why does (bar), with (defmacro bar () '(+ 3 4)), return 7? Is it because after the macroexpansion, the result is evaluated? 10:07:10 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-99-162-211-249.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:07:35 Sure 10:07:40 that's the whole point of macros 10:07:49 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:30 konr, try (macroexpand '(bar)) 10:11:44 is there any SBCL hacker around? What's the procedure to get a windows release onto sbcl.sf.net, again? I've laying an sbcl 1.0.32 around at: http://matroid.org/flux/sbcl-1.0.32.msi (signature http://matroid.org/flux/sbcl-1.0.32.msi.asc) At least that's better than the available 1.0.29. 10:11:46 -!- plutonas` [n=plutonas@port-92-195-237-52.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:15:26 ah, I've found an explantation in my logs. apparently antifuchs has explained it to me once, some years ago. 10:16:19 mgr: if it still works, someone (TM) should blog about it... 10:18:14 splittist: it does not. no ftp on upload.sourceforge.net anymore 10:22:08 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:23:28 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:31:29 galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-47-197.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:40:33 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:42:42 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:47:55 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:54:58 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:57:40 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:58:53 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.247.73.249] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:00:27 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229239088.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:00:58 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:02:48 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 11:05:19 _bubbler_ [n=CrazyEdd@220.253-224-252.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:05:27 Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-158-5.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:34 sunwukong [n=vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:10:05 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:10:13 lpolzer_: bug report: reinstalling existing packages fails 11:10:24 ==> Package maxima already installed. Reinstall it (y/N) y 11:10:24 ==> Installing binary package "maxima" from repository "extra". 11:10:24 warning: maxima-5.20.1-1 is up to date -- skipping 11:10:46 Ralith, already filed: http://github.com/skypher/paktahn/issues#issue/7 11:13:32 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.157.253] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:13:47 'kay 11:14:10 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32C490.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:16 c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.157.253] has joined #lisp 11:21:42 rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:23:04 -!- _bubbler_ [n=CrazyEdd@220.253-224-252.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:25:41 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-19-26.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:26:33 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:27:00 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:28:09 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 11:28:15 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:19 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:29:54 -!- galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-47-197.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [] 11:36:52 blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:17 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:48:36 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.248.155] has joined #lisp 11:48:54 xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 11:49:36 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.157.253] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:50:06 [1]Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-167-135.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:58 -!- [1]Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-167-135.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:54:46 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e194-084.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:56:27 bajtek [n=chatzill@nat.lonet.gdynia.pl] has joined #lisp 11:56:43 hi there' 11:57:22 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ldyrtokvrdgethcn] has left #lisp 12:00:35 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@adsl-89-217-247-116.adslplus.ch] has quit [] 12:01:09 c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.157.253] has joined #lisp 12:03:15 lpolzer_, you're using github's issue tracker? 12:03:17 ouch... >_> 12:07:36 -!- Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-158-5.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:07:39 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:08:42 community, i've got a question 12:08:55 i've found Lisp, got pretty amazed by it 12:09:11 but there's a lot of Interpretrers/compilers 12:09:17 which one is best for beginner 12:09:21 sbcl 12:09:49 bajtek: what platform? 12:10:17 XP 12:11:21 i mean, windows XP 12:11:27 Adlai's Lispbox with clozure cl might be good idea to get started 12:11:34 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:12:26 "clozure cl" ? 12:13:46 btw, its interpreter, compiler or both? 12:14:37 clozure is a compiler 12:15:00 bajtek: I use clisp and sbcl on XP. sbcl is probably nicer (but that's perhaps because I understand the backtraces better). I used to use opencl on the mac, but haven't successfully installed ccl (it's succesor name) on Windows. 12:15:24 (openmcl?) 12:15:42 (spelling all to h*ll today) 12:19:30 bajtek, if you have Cygwin available, you could try building my Lispbox version at http://github.com/adlai/lispbox 12:19:44 well, i'd rather not use cygwin 12:20:17 now that people know about this lispbox version, I guess I should build a tarball... 12:21:18 why do you need cygwin for it? 12:23:29 tcr, you'll have to ask gigamonkey why he designed Lispbox this way: the build script is a GNU makefile. Back when I hacked on this, I didn't try changing that, just tweaking bits to get it to work with CCL. Once a binary is built, you can run it without Cygwin. 12:24:15 ah ok 12:24:35 the README.source points to a slime 1.2 tarball btw 12:24:47 You should provide binary tarballs 12:25:12 slurping in libcl might be a good idea too 12:25:19 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.157.253] has quit ["benchmark"] 12:25:31 pr [n=pr@p579CA7DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:14 yeah, gigamonkey approved of doing that 12:28:59 I'm at work right now, but I'll try putting a bit of time into this tonight. 12:29:21 All of a sudden, people are interested in CCL lispbox... tcr, I blame you! :P 12:30:04 CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 12:30:50 ericklc [n=ikki@189.247.73.249] has joined #lisp 12:31:13 -!- Fuufie is now known as Fufie 12:34:11 it's to save you from boredom 12:39:47 is there a portable equivalent of sb-kernel:%unary-truncate/single-float ? 12:41:04 wow. Lisp really just LOOKEd easy ;) 12:41:17 any/lastlog bajtek 12:41:19 wups 12:41:39 whats "any/lastlog"? 12:41:43 a typo 12:41:51 ...? 12:41:54 ^^ 12:42:03 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:04 i'm newbie in IRC ;p 12:42:06 come on 12:42:35 ? 12:42:42 "a typo"? 12:42:48 cmatei: TRUNCATE? 12:42:48 yes 12:42:50 a typographical error 12:42:59 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:43:03 12:43:05 a mistaken pressing of the keyboard 12:43:11 oke, oke 12:43:29 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:43:35 anyway 12:43:39 any SBCL hackers around? 12:43:44 stassats`: i'm in premature optimisation land, of course. I would like something to give me back an integer, not a real 12:44:05 cmatei: what does TRUNCATE return? 12:44:05 whatever, still, how do I add two numbers? ^^ I triend something like (4 + 3) or (print (2 + 3)) but... 12:44:26 and also, what are these "returns" in clisp for? 12:44:33 bajtek: in its most basic form, CL syntax is (function arg1 arg2 ...) 12:44:36 (+ 4 3) obviously 12:44:37 + is a function. 12:44:50 minion: please tell bajtek about PCL 12:44:50 mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 12:44:51 Athas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:44:51 bajtek: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 12:44:51 bah, upi 12:44:55 *you're right 12:44:59 so can I use something like polish notation 12:45:05 cmatei: truncate doesn't give an integer? 12:45:16 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:45:16 yes, it does, somehow i misread 12:45:25 ftruncate returns float 12:45:37 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:39 bajtek, tesz zobacz #lisp-pl! 12:45:47 Adlai, it will do for the time being 12:46:18 Adlai, we might consider moving to google code or something for the issue tracking 12:46:23 later, that is. 12:47:08 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:47:43 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-230.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:48:01 Practical Common Lisp is a good book. 12:48:04 -!- addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 12:48:30 ye 12:48:38 but is there DL-able ver? 12:48:48 yes, the link above 12:49:01 you'd have to download each file manually. 12:49:30 manually? that must be boring 12:49:48 is there an archivne now? 12:50:02 I can't find one. 12:50:08 wget FTW 12:50:10 or were you referring to wget? :-) 12:50:31 <3 wget 12:50:34 yes, wget, or drakma + closure-html 12:50:52 -c -r -np -nd has saved me hours of clicking 12:50:54 didn't there used to be a PCL pdf download from apress? 12:51:16 there used to be, i even have one somewhere 12:52:14 yep... found it 12:52:29 google finds it on the apress site, even if apress doesn't link to it any more. (At least a while ago.) 12:52:32 *tic* creates his own w/ ebook-convert index.html index.lrf, and moves it to his sony reader. let's see how htat works... 12:52:59 tic: tell us how the code examples look... 12:53:12 tsuru: come on, give the link 12:53:53 bajtek: I found it in ~/lisp/docs , sorry not a web link :( 12:54:04 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 12:54:42 well... ~ stands for what? 12:55:29 home directory 12:56:46 bajtek: what's wrong with the online version? 12:58:31 i don't have internet connection all the time 12:58:33 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-230.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:58:48 i use mobile computer, so offline is usually better 12:59:08 or better just buy the book 12:59:56 ^^ 13:00:29 splittist, bit tight on horizontal space but indentation/font intact. Maybe if I change the font style to make it smaller. 13:01:39 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 13:02:16 *tic* tries again 13:02:26 chapters and headings and such works wonders though. 13:03:09 tic: cool. The .pdf version really isn't the right size for the standard ebook reader (: 13:04:00 I'm using calibre's ebook-convert, very straight-forward. just point it at index.html and it'll follow links. 13:04:29 let's see if the smaller size looks better on 6". 13:05:27 -!- OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-230.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:06:28 argh. it wasn't resized. 13:06:36 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:09:52 -!- ben_m [n=ben@chello084113058207.12.vie.surfer.at] has left #lisp 13:11:55 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-211-99.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:06 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:13:59 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:22 -!- sdqali [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:16:56 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-35-82-250-199-23.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:39 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-19-26.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 13:22:09 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 13:23:06 c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.157.253] has joined #lisp 13:27:19 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:27:42 -!- konr [n=user@187.88.190.77] has quit [Operation timed out] 13:27:43 htdang [n=huynhthe@115.75.86.142] has joined #lisp 13:28:18 minion: lisp compiler 13:28:20 i like lisp... i'm written in it 13:28:32 minion: lisp compiler on windows 13:28:33 i like lisp... i'm written in it 13:28:43 minion, tell htdang about CCL 13:28:43 htdang: look at CCL: CCL is Clozure Common Lisp, or Clozure CL for short. http://www.cliki.net/CCL 13:28:44 minion: lisp class 13:28:45 Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 25 seconds is too many. 13:28:58 -!- htdang [n=huynhthe@115.75.86.142] has quit [Client Quit] 13:29:02 sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:29:07 hmm 13:30:04 -!- bajtek [n=chatzill@nat.lonet.gdynia.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:35 *Adlai* wonders whether minion should have special knowledge about CCL and link directly to ccl.clozure.com (and similar behavior for other lisps) 13:40:56 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 13:42:37 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:44:02 hohum [i=dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:27 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:57 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-14-99.iburst.co.za] has quit ["AFK"] 13:52:11 CyberBlue [n=yong@111.167.27.6] has joined #lisp 14:00:41 -!- lichtblau [n=user@pD95427D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:00:43 Axius [n=oijhif@92.85.211.5] has joined #lisp 14:01:15 -!- Axius [n=oijhif@92.85.211.5] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:02:05 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:03:44 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:48 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:11:56 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e194-084.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:11:58 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:13:53 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:07 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:17:51 TDT [n=dthole@dhcp80ff865b.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 14:20:02 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:20:08 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-31-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:20:42 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:23:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-16-102.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:24:28 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@111.167.27.6] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:24:45 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-16-102.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:26:40 sierinjs [n=sierinjs@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has joined #lisp 14:26:50 How does when and if differ? 14:27:06 clhs when 14:27:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_when_.htm 14:27:08 clhs if 14:27:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_if.htm 14:27:32 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:21 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:29:45 sierinjs: if has one true clause and one false (else) clause; when has as many true clauses as you like and no else clause. 14:31:13 sierinjs: It connotes different things to the reader 14:31:44 sierinjs: WHEN is a one-legged IF. 14:31:52 All clear. 14:32:04 and the leg may have many bones 14:32:33 whats a cond then 14:33:30 many legged bony mutant? 14:33:41 hairy armpits 14:34:01 centipede 14:35:25 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.218.182] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 cond is the basic animal, of which other choice constructs are but cuts of meat 14:36:30 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:37:36 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 14:37:50 no, IF is the basic animal 14:39:11 no, AND is the basic animal 14:39:22 jne? 14:39:37 no, NOT is the basic animal 14:39:57 IF can be implemented using NOT and symbol-plists 14:40:03 no, XOR is 14:40:06 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:40:08 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:14 clhs xor 14:40:15 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for xor. 14:40:22 clhs logxor 14:40:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_logand.htm 14:41:42 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.116.36] has joined #lisp 14:48:12 Adlai pasted "just for fun" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93236 14:50:13 and NOT is implemented using IF 14:50:29 sshhh 14:50:37 that's a secret 14:50:42 lambda is the basic animal 14:51:08 not even -- http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/ 14:51:18 http://www.xach.com/misc/lambda.html 14:51:52 Adlai: unlambda is too bloated 14:52:20 stassats`, true, it includes some unnecessary operators, just for kicks 14:52:54 eh, SKI is the basic animal 14:53:01 oh, no... SK is 14:53:16 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 14:54:39 all you need is XOR 14:54:46 try implementing the Y combinator in SKI combinator calculus 14:54:48 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B74B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:26 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:57:29 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 14:57:30 swathanthran [n=user@117.204.92.21] has joined #lisp 14:57:35 all you need is SUBLEQ -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_instruction_set_computer#Subtract_and_branch_if_less_than_or_equal_to_zero 15:00:10 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:58 the other end of the spectrum is dwim ;-) 15:02:52 and i got that mixed, rather NOR, not XOR 15:06:10 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdsleu016.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:08:40 galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-47-197.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:12:03 -!- ericklc [n=ikki@189.247.73.249] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:15:36 -!- CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:16:20 levente_meszaros: have you read Smullyan's "To Mock a Mockingbird"? 15:17:39 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:04 fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has joined #lisp 15:28:51 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["bye"] 15:29:32 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 15:31:44 Which is used more, do or loop? 15:31:53 loop 15:32:30 Krystof, no I haven't 15:32:31 it's very, very rare that DO is used in preference to LOOP 15:32:39 *levente_meszaros* looks it up on wikipedia 15:33:05 dlowe: but there are all kinds of LOOP-haters 15:33:14 Thanks. 15:33:29 stassats`: sure, but usually they use something besides DO 15:34:52 housel: Are you here? 15:35:15 milanj [n=milan@79.101.180.175] has joined #lisp 15:36:29 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 15:40:16 longkid [n=lisp@58.186.233.3] has joined #lisp 15:41:29 -!- knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:42:19 -!- longkid [n=lisp@58.186.233.3] has left #lisp 15:42:34 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 15:44:24 pbusser [n=pbusser@82.174.238.138] has joined #lisp 15:45:08 *attila_lendvai* never wrote a single do in his life (or just forgot it quickly) 15:47:29 *pbusser* wonders whether anyone got Closure to display a web page at all. 15:49:02 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:45 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f755941.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:51 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:53:00 davazp [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:18 levente_meszaros: you should; it's a book of logic puzzles which goes all the way to implementing the Y combinator with S and K 15:57:33 (and further; by the end, you can prove incompleteness :-) 15:57:53 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:03:10 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-53-170.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:03:17 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:05:38 soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 16:09:17 knuckolls [n=Kevin@office.americanroamer.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:05 Krystof, sounds interesting, especially because I really like logic puzzles 16:10:19 does amazon sell this book? 16:10:20 rplacd [n=rplacd@81-233-151-247-no82.business.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:44 -!- rplacd [n=rplacd@81-233-151-247-no82.business.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:12:32 I'm sure they do. You might also want to consider "the lady or the tiger" by the same author, which has similar combinatorics puzzles. (at least I found the latter a lot more approachable) 16:13:53 -!- Athas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:14:07 knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 16:15:04 balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-99-162-211-249.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:22 -!- knuckolls [n=Kevin@office.americanroamer.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:15:54 hmm, lispworks.com dns seems pretty slow today. 16:15:59 *Xach* wonders who is to blame 16:18:54 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 16:18:57 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 16:21:04 -!- sierinjs is now known as gulash 16:21:29 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:22:21 Soulman [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:58 marioxcc [n=user@200.77.65.198] has joined #lisp 16:27:34 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-181-95.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:33:00 -!- fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit ["Leaving..."] 16:37:10 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:17 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-161-165.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:37:19 REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:37:50 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:38:41 alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:39:36 rares [n=rares@174-22-228-98.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:50 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-228-98.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 16:40:58 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-29-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:42:38 How do I do a simple loop and I decide when to jump out of it? 16:42:43 clhs loop 16:42:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 16:43:05 jsoft, use the simple form -- (loop (foo bar) (baz (return quux))) 16:44:00 Hmm, thanks 16:44:47 postamar [n=postamar@AMarseille-252-1-72-219.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:45:43 jsoft, the first example on that CLHS page shows how to use this 16:48:01 the lady and the tiger is much more approachable, but it was levente_meszaros who brought up S and K in the first place 16:48:16 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-99-162-211-249.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:48:35 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:48:52 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:52:21 -!- Oddity [n=Oddity@99.199.136.138] has quit [] 16:53:05 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.180.175] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:58:52 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:59:26 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit ["out!"] 17:00:06 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:00:16 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:02:32 fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has joined #lisp 17:02:59 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:08:42 -!- splittist [i=513ec7a1@gateway/web/freenode/x-kxpwwtkpyiradwqb] has quit ["Page closed"] 17:09:40 I'd like to hear some hearty book recommendations, as I'm going through my biannual amazon shopping spree.. 17:09:48 -!- fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit ["Leaving..."] 17:10:44 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-161-165.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:11:31 I'm going for GEB, Appel's "Modern compiler implementation in ML" and Muchnick's "Advanced compiler design and implementation", currently. 17:12:50 ?? 17:13:00 did you read that compiling with continuations 17:13:08 deepfire: Founders at Work, Practical Common Lisp 17:13:16 if you like appel that's my favorite 17:16:57 Xach, ooh, Founders at work was the book I hoped I'd remember when time comes, but I've forgotten. Thanks a lot! 17:18:34 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:18:36 soupdragon, I've never read Appel -- I picked it because nikodemus recommended it over Muchnick as more introductory material 17:19:35 okay nevermind then 17:20:59 Xach, oh, you probably mean coders at work, not founders, right? 17:21:32 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-207-181.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:21:42 deepfire: I like Cooper and Torczon's _Engineering a Compiler_ as more in-depth and slightly broader than Appel, though admittedly with less focus on writing a compiler 17:25:45 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:26:16 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 17:28:37 froydnj, I went for it, thanks! 17:29:37 -!- alxconn [n=alxconn@c-24-15-46-226.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:31:16 deepfire: Oops, yes. 17:31:18 alxconn [n=alxconn@c-24-15-46-226.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:04 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:34:05 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:34:17 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:34:42 cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:33 -!- postamar [n=postamar@AMarseille-252-1-72-219.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 17:48:16 milanj [n=milan@79.101.180.175] has joined #lisp 17:56:27 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 17:56:34 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B74B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:56:41 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B74B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:29 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:00:32 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:03:04 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 18:06:23 eek. for some reason i thought a stream with :element-type 'bit would have packed input and output. 18:06:50 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:07:21 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-121-173.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:08:07 *Xach* resigns himself to some packing and unpacking 18:08:49 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:09:53 Kaonashi [n=tanami@ppp118-210-96-243.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:13 Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:12:28 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 18:13:06 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 18:14:10 -!- levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-89-223-197-69.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:15:31 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:17:29 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-207-181.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:17:46 TR2N [i=email@89-180-173-174.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 18:19:31 cools` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:03 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-26-78-7.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:20:06 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-53-170.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:20:17 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-53-170.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:20:44 serichsen [n=user@g227194027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:49 good evening 18:20:51 -!- cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:21:43 hello 18:21:52 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 18:23:45 Moin! 18:25:15 gbutler__ [n=gbutler@ws1.clinicalspecialties.com] has joined #lisp 18:25:31 How would you guys check if a string exists in a list of strings? 18:25:42 jsoft: member 18:25:53 hmm. 18:25:56 *jsoft* looks it up 18:26:33 http://l1sp.org/cl/member 18:26:35 a-s [n=user@93.112.122.84] has joined #lisp 18:26:52 splittist [i=bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-cjabhgfybyffadui] has joined #lisp 18:26:58 thanks 18:27:12 ASau` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:27:18 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:29:02 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:16 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 18:29:32 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.116.36] has left #lisp 18:32:40 cools`` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:30 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-185-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:46 cools``` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:54 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@office.sea.jambool.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:16 -!- Kaonashi is now known as tdm 18:37:21 -!- tdm is now known as Kaonashi 18:38:19 cools```` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:39:25 -!- gbutler__ [n=gbutler@ws1.clinicalspecialties.com] has left #lisp 18:40:09 -!- Kaonashi [n=tanami@ppp118-210-96-243.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:46:56 cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:15 -!- cools```` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:48:33 neaer [i=ddd@119.198.74.70] has joined #lisp 18:49:20 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 18:49:37 -!- cools` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:49:57 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:50:30 xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 18:50:57 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:51:42 -!- cools`` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:51:50 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 18:54:12 -!- cools``` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:55:26 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:56:25 I'd use FIND myself 18:58:18 GM_djm [n=djm@ip98-180-22-13.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:22 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:30 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:01:56 balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 19:02:07 clhs: 19:02:08 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for . 19:02:20 clhs: cons 19:02:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_cons.htm 19:02:53 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 19:03:01 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:03:04 fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has joined #lisp 19:03:23 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:50 dnolen [n=dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 19:07:54 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@office.sea.jambool.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:11:37 gonzojive [n=red@c-98-234-48-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:27 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:14:07 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-26-78-7.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:14:07 jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-27-240-65.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:17:42 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:19:18 francogrex [n=user@126.141-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:20:48 How would I turn a char into a 'string' so I can append it to a string with concatenate? 19:20:59 jsoft: (string c) 19:20:59 (string char) 19:21:17 Ahh thanks 19:21:30 I almost always use FORMAT instead of concatenate, though 19:21:36 is using slime-tramp for remote files with a local server an applicable use-case? i can't seem to get it to work 19:21:48 mostly because concatenate is harder to type 19:22:17 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:22:28 ramus: what problems do you have? 19:23:16 C-c C-k doesn't work, i get 'failed to find TRUENAME' 19:23:34 how did you configure it? 19:24:05 http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Setting-up-pathname-translations.html 19:24:25 i put in the local server in machine-instance, and user/host in remote-host and username 19:24:40 no, paste your slime-tramp related configuration 19:24:43 lisppaste: url? 19:24:44 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 19:24:49 does it make any sense to do this: (make-array 100 :element-type 'simple-string) ? 19:24:53 -!- madsy is now known as Madsy 19:25:26 in at least 2 implementations, the system doesn' give a shit about 'simple-string 19:25:27 francogrex: only if for descriptive purpuses, since most likely it will be the same as (make-array 100) 19:25:41 stassats: yes I noticed 19:25:47 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-tramp slime-asdf)) is the only thing i have in my .emacs-- did you want me to paste what i pushed onto slime-filename-translations? 19:25:48 why? 19:25:50 clhs u-a-e-t 19:25:51 UPGRADED-ARRAY-ELEMENT-TYPE: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_upgr_1.htm 19:26:06 ramus: that's right 19:26:11 k, sec 19:26:14 i mean, i want you to paste that 19:29:42 ramus pasted "slime-tramp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93248 19:30:41 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:30:49 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:31:15 that didn't help much, so, you have remote files and remote lisp, you open files via tramp and what to load them into remote lisp? 19:31:22 no, a local lisp 19:31:22 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:31:26 is that even possible? 19:32:16 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:17 oh, then it's not the way, it's only for pathname translation, not for file transmission 19:32:25 ah, i see 19:32:35 but you can use NFS 19:32:37 What would cause a variable in a function to keep its value? In this case, it is a string which I thought was local only to the function, which I append to, and then return. 19:32:42 or ssh-fs, if you like 19:32:42 yeah, i'll do that 19:32:43 thanks 19:32:52 So each time I call the function, it appends to an existing string.. gets longer and longer... 19:33:07 jsoft: a thing called closure 19:33:35 how al i suppposed to use this: (upgraded-array-element-type 'simple-string) ? 19:33:38 closure you say 19:34:27 francogrex: you're don't need to use, but you can see that 'simple-string is upgraded to T 19:34:43 which means you will get a non-specialized array 19:34:54 ysph [n=user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:35:35 ah yes I saw that. So in other words, declaring simple-string the ele-type of an array has no effect 19:36:23 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:36:45 -!- a-s [n=user@93.112.122.84] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:39:26 francogrex: for example, (make-array 1 :element-type 'simple-string :initial-contents '(1)) will signal a warning in SBCL 19:42:16 huh? it doesn't on mine. However this does: (make-array 1 :element-type 'fixnum :initial-contents '(1.0)) 19:42:36 francogrex: when compiling 19:42:42 ah ok 19:42:50 let me try 19:42:54 repl inhibits some kinds of warnings 19:43:44 ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-88-237.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:47:14 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:48:11 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-27-240-65.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:07 jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-30-37-164.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:51:59 -!- GM_djm [n=djm@ip98-180-22-13.ga.at.cox.net] has left #lisp 19:53:20 Athas`` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:54:07 Athas``: I don't know if you have any time or energy at all these days 19:54:08 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit ["Disconnecting from stoned server."] 19:54:23 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 19:54:23 I'm populating the McCLIM bugtracker with all the tagged mails I have from years gone by 19:54:38 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:56:44 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-181-95.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:56:48 -!- ruediger_ is now known as ruediger 19:57:31 -!- hohum [i=dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:58:15 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit ["leaving"] 20:01:05 How do I clear everything from my REPL ? 20:01:38 C-c M-o 20:02:28 fe[nl]ix: thanks 20:02:34 fe[nl]ix: What did you use xref.lisp for? 20:02:46 -!- balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:03:07 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-30-37-164.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:03:10 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:04:02 tcr: nothing, but I've been asked to have it installed conditionally because of its licence 20:04:32 fe[nl]ix: what I meant was undefine everything... 20:04:55 jsoft: what "everything" ? 20:04:55 ,restart 20:04:59 -!- francogrex [n=user@126.141-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:05:58 Ahhh, thanks 20:06:19 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 20:06:53 -!- saba [n=saba@94.136.88.17] has quit ["leaving"] 20:07:14 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:07:15 gabnet [n=gabnet@226.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:19 i believe undefining everything involves a large amount of anti-everything coming in to contact with it. 20:08:06 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:08:07 grouzen_ [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 20:08:20 Krystof: yes, I got an email. 20:08:25 I think that bug is fixed, though. 20:08:35 -!- Athas`` is now known as Athas 20:08:53 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 20:09:45 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:10:00 -!- gulash [n=sierinjs@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11:33 -!- fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit ["Leaving..."] 20:11:47 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@82.174.238.138] has quit ["Client Quit"] 20:12:24 Athas: the scrollbar / text-editor one? Well, I just tested it 20:13:01 (and indeed the horizontal scrollbar works and the vertical one doesn't 20:13:07 oh, maybe you were describing something else? 20:13:50 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-29-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:15:58 Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-115-76.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:16 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:17:18 rouslan [n=rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 20:17:41 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:20:29 -!- Yamazaki-kun [n=bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:20:32 Yamazaki-kun [n=bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 20:21:02 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:23:44 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1A32.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:23:49 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:24:57 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:26:23 francogrex [n=user@126.141-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:31:50 knobo` [n=user@ti100710a080-0827.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:33:47 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:02 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:34:02 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:34:16 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:32 xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 20:41:35 Ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@87.115.177.148] has joined #lisp 20:45:58 -!- Ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@87.115.177.148] has quit [Client Quit] 20:46:55 -!- knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:47:34 -!- francogrex [n=user@126.141-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:51:43 timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:37 -!- galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-47-197.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [] 20:57:51 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:59:02 -!- clop2 [n=jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:59:27 Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:58 bew_ [n=chatzill@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:35 BrianRice-work [n=briantri@70.102.219.22] has joined #lisp 21:00:39 Bonjour! 21:00:59 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-230.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:01:01 I have a horrifying question: how would I get a gensym style facility from cpp? ;P 21:01:04 *p_l* spent last night in Paris 21:01:11 -!- davazp [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:01:29 -!- bew_ [n=chatzill@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:01:31 p_l: how long will you stay ? 21:01:38 BrianRice-work: by hacking your implementation's CPP, or writing a code generator for it 21:01:51 fe[nl]ix: left already. Been there due to AirFrance failing :P 21:01:54 p_l: I thought so. just wondering if there's something I've missed. thanks 21:02:17 isn't the usual thing to abuse __FILE__ and __LINE__? 21:02:29 yeah that did come up too 21:02:52 also closures 21:03:02 (of the apple-introduced kind) 21:03:33 thanks, back to work for me again 21:03:37 -!- BrianRice-work [n=briantri@70.102.219.22] has left #lisp 21:03:55 bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:24 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:09:18 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:09:26 bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:32 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-29-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:12:44 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:13:08 fe[nl]ix: Still, I have to say, Charles De Gaulle Airport is impressive :) 21:17:09 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:08 sleepydog [n=david@64-252-33-33.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:39 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:22:29 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 21:22:31 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-29-106.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:25:01 It's a bit more intimidating when they're all on strike. 21:25:38 haha 21:25:46 I imagine :) 21:27:36 Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 21:29:17 -!- gabnet [n=gabnet@226.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:30:19 -!- splittist [i=bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-cjabhgfybyffadui] has quit ["Who knew there were so many #lispers in Paris?"] 21:34:29 -!- Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 21:39:16 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-080-041.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:39:43 lichtblau [n=user@port-92-195-41-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:39:53 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 21:40:29 pkhuong: you around? 21:41:00 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f755941.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:41:06 <_3b> Ralith: if you haven't gotten sb-cga working yet, try my fork 21:41:55 _3b: 'kay 21:42:01 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-167-16.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:02 _3b: you doing NaNs differently? 21:42:09 <_3b> sort of 21:42:11 ? 21:42:32 hoeq [n=hoeq@h-66-64.A216.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 21:42:34 <_3b> i make an effort to make sure they don't get compiled inline 21:42:44 that helps? 21:42:56 <_3b> yeah, for compilation at least 21:43:11 so it may or may not run? 21:43:19 <_3b> they might still trap if you try to do anything with them, but i haven't needed the functions that use them yet 21:43:22 okay 21:43:32 that is a start until SBCL gets fixed at least 21:44:28 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-69-251-24-39.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:32 _3b: I notice nikodemus' branch has commits much more recently than yours 21:44:35 are those anything interesting? 21:44:44 <_3b> Ralith: more than just merging mine? 21:44:56 ...not sure 21:45:07 perhaps not 21:45:20 <_3b> yeah, still just mine + breaking my NaN fix :p 21:45:21 most recent one is merging a CCL port which I guess was you 21:46:27 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:46:35 _3b: there's no code for 2d vectors, right? 21:46:42 <_3b> you could just back out the changes to sbcl.lisp from nikodemus' tree if you prefer 21:46:49 <_3b> not that i know of 21:46:55 it's spelled (complex double-float) 21:47:02 okay. 21:47:03 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:47:15 _3b: yours built cleanly, not counting 1011 notes. 21:47:19 ty ^^ 21:47:21 <_3b> right, or just use 3d vectors with 0 or 1 for 3rd element as appropriate 21:47:40 or just a element array 21:47:46 two^ 21:48:06 <_3b> no, don't use 2 element array, unless youw ant to write SSE code for it :p 21:48:17 hehe nope not really 21:48:17 -!- hoeq [n=hoeq@h-66-64.A216.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit ["leaving"] 21:48:27 Guthur: SBCL, at least, will optimized complexes much better than two-element arrays 21:48:32 hoeq [n=hoeq@h-66-64.A216.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 21:48:50 _3b: thanks, duly noted. 21:49:16 pr_ [n=pr@p579CAF5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:20 i was just thinking of harmony with the current vec3 21:50:23 <_3b> right, 2element array would probably be nicest, if it had comparable optimization work 21:51:22 i'm 100% sure SBCL will optimize complexes much to beat arrays, I did run testes against squirls complex based vecs using arrays and arrays were better 21:51:31 hehe tests* 21:52:04 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 21:52:05 but the test could have been bogus, and I can't really be bothered to find out for sure now 21:52:10 *balooga* wants the next official version of cffi to be released. Wants to start using foreign-library-loaded-p 21:52:29 -!- malsyned [n=malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:52:35 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:18 then a four element would be nice as well 21:53:29 and some quaternion operations 21:54:01 and all SSE'd would be super, hehe 21:54:57 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-160-63.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:55:12 balooga: who's stopping you ? 21:55:38 Guthur: considering that *we* ran tests and went with complex doubles... :P 21:56:55 -!- rouslan [n=rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.4/20091111133509]"] 21:58:02 luis: ping 21:58:14 -!- soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:58:26 -!- Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-115-76.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:58:31 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:58:34 fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has joined #lisp 22:00:02 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-64-118-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:21 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 22:01:06 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:01:10 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:01:23 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 22:02:24 bipt` [i=bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:43 benny [n=benny@i577A1528.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:04:23 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229239088.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 22:04:52 fe[nl]ix: Has to be in the CFFI asdf-install version before I can use foreign-library-loaded-p in lb-sdl 22:05:33 -!- mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:07:14 fe[nl]ix: what's the rationale for the "eval instead of funcall" change in bxthread default bindings? 22:07:22 (I'm not really complaining, just curious) 22:07:50 malsyned [n=malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:58 much easier debugging, nothing more 22:08:04 -!- cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:08:11 mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 22:09:27 cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 22:10:27 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:10:46 balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 22:10:57 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [] 22:11:56 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 22:12:55 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 22:14:09 rares [n=rares@174-22-228-98.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:44 -!- fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:15:58 -!- sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 22:18:44 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-228-98.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 22:23:13 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-080-041.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:24:04 -!- bew [n=bew@cpc2-dals16-2-0-cust285.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:24:22 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:24:32 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:24:54 fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has joined #lisp 22:26:10 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-173-174.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:32:22 -!- mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:32:36 -!- fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:37:03 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-50-249.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:39:07 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:39:47 davazp [n=user@205.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:41 levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-89-223-210-103.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 22:42:05 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:42:40 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:49 -!- alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:46:33 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 22:48:04 fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has joined #lisp 22:50:50 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:52:15 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [] 22:55:03 -!- davazp [n=user@205.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:55:55 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 22:57:32 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:58:10 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:09 -!- fmeyer [n=fmeyer@189.4.254.233] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:59:15 _icecube_ [n=icecube@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:00:29 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:00:59 Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has joined #lisp 23:01:42 -!- TDT [n=dthole@dhcp80ff865b.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:03:19 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:04:39 billitch [n=billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:15 francogrex [n=user@111.122-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 23:08:03 the difference bewteen funcall and apply disturbs me. closures can be subjected to funcall but not to apply? 23:08:27 where did you get such idea? 23:08:41 francogrex, that's not true at all. 23:08:45 such erroneous idea 23:09:16 funcall can be defined as (defun funcall (function &rest args) (apply function args)) 23:09:32 (apply (complement #'member) 'd '(a b c)) ? 23:09:41 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-230.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:10:21 (let* ((a 5) 23:10:21 (add-a (lambda (&rest xs) (apply #'+ a xs)))) 23:10:21 (apply add-a (list 3 4 5))) 23:10:47 francogrex: you mean (apply (complement #'member) 'd '((a b c))) ? 23:10:52 NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-52-82-65-108-190.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:58 Jabberwockey [n=jens@p54A11903.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:11:36 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:38 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@p54A11903.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:11:51 francogrex, apply and funcall do different things. What you want looks like funcall. 23:12:02 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@office.sea.jambool.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:37 fe[nl]ix: yes why then '((a b c)) ? 23:12:43 clhs apply 23:12:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 23:14:04 last ar needs to be a list 23:14:13 ok 23:14:19 francogrex: (apply (complement #'member) 'd '(a b c)) is equivalent to (funcall (complement #'member) 'd 'a 'b 'c), which is clearly wrong 23:14:35 yes 23:14:59 Ri- [n=ubuntu@ec2-204-236-161-121.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:06 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@69.38.240.242] has quit [] 23:15:58 is that just an example? because (not (member 'd '(a b c))) looks better 23:17:42 the example is from CLHS by the looks 23:18:13 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:18:26 clhs complement 23:18:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_comple.htm 23:18:50 admittedly with funcall 23:18:55 paulscott [n=chatzill@DSLPool-net214-62.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:09 clhs wins 23:19:10 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:19:21 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:20:21 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:23 yes, it's only to test complement 23:20:32 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:23:56 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:24:40 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-35-82-250-199-23.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:25:57 and this: (apply #'remove 3 '(1 2 3 4 3 4) :test (complement #'equalp)) ? works with funcall 23:26:40 just adding an epty list at the end works! '() 23:26:47 weird 23:27:21 what didn't you understand about "last ar needs to be a list"? 23:27:40 it's dumb that you need even an empty list 23:28:00 it's dumb to use apply instead of funcall 23:28:17 nil also works of course 23:28:37 some cool people are using apply instead of funcall 23:29:37 -!- levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-89-223-210-103.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 23:29:51 <_3b> francogrex: you realize apply and funcall do different things, right? 23:30:59 more or less 23:31:29 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-230.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:31:49 <_3b> do you know what the difference is? 23:32:35 the empty list at the end? 23:32:45 no 23:33:05 the lastarg needs to be a list 23:33:17 <_3b> francogrex: why does it need to be a list? 23:33:20 that's better, and is it useful? 23:33:26 s/and/and why/ 23:33:56 <_3b> or what does it do with the list 23:34:09 TR2N [i=email@89.180.218.57] has joined #lisp 23:34:10 does common lisp have a predicate for testing if a value is NIL? 23:34:14 i thought there was NULLP 23:34:25 clhs null 23:34:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_null.htm 23:34:27 necroforest: just NULL 23:34:30 ohhh 23:34:31 ok 23:34:46 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.180.175] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:34:48 (null nil) 23:34:52 => T 23:35:10 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:35:33 i rarely use null, usually UNLESS is enough 23:35:45 applies the function to that list? 23:36:00 Anybody following Peter Michaux's Scheme from Scratch article series? (http://peter.michaux.ca/index#Scheme from Scratch) 23:36:17 francogrex: that's right, can you do this with funcall? 23:37:08 aha; no they all need to be numbers it seems in funcall 23:37:20 numbers? 23:37:27 atoms? 23:37:37 Exactly how does workflow work on Emacs with slime. Right now I'm finding it A LOT easier to edit lisp programs in notpad, then use the (load "file path). 23:37:41 -!- Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 23:37:43 Ri - 23:37:49 a blog link or something would be nice... 23:37:51 minion: tell paulscott about slime.mov 23:37:52 paulscott: direct your attention towards slime.mov: "using SLIME" video by Marco Baringer, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 23:37:55 oops 23:38:00 Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 23:38:27 thanks 23:38:33 francogrex: well, it's better to say that APPLY applies a function to the elements in a list 23:39:01 ok 23:39:22 -!- francogrex [n=user@111.122-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:39:44 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 23:41:04 -!- pr_ [n=pr@p579CAF5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 23:41:25 francogrex: you can pass non-atomic values to funcall. It just won't destructure them. 23:41:33 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:41:59 -!- OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-230.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:42:20 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-230.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:44:36 <_3b> ah,i guess the reason i couldn't figure out how to get good enough dependency info out of .swc files, is that it isn't there... .swf i was comparing to built using the source of the lib instead of the .swc :/ 23:47:22 swc? 23:47:29 Some kind of loadable modules for flash? 23:47:35 <_3b> yeah 23:48:17 <_3b> well, sort of a hybrid of static lib and dynamic lib 23:48:29 *_3b* is more interested in the static lib part at the moment 23:48:29 heavens 23:48:37 are you actually working /w actionscript? 23:48:38 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-69-251-24-39.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]"] 23:48:43 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:48:47 <_3b> Fade: not if i can avoid it :p 23:49:00 -!- timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:49:04 <_3b> which is why i want to get dependency info out of the .swc 23:49:12 it is unclear to me whether you can get a flash authoring environment anywhere but windows. 23:49:17 Fade: afaik he is rather discovering the virtual machine behind it :P 23:49:25 brandelune [n=suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:49:27 <_3b> so i can use other people's actionscript libs without using actionscript 23:49:27 Fade: OSX, iirc 23:49:33 *nod* 23:49:36 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d83-187-168-23.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 23:49:45 <_3b> Fade: flex runs on java, presumably runs anywhere 23:50:08 *p_l* considered getting OSX onto his thinkpad, if only to run Creative Suite 23:50:10 well, if you could write flash systems in lisp, that'd be a big win. :) 23:50:17 *_3b* can :p 23:50:35 -!- dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:50:35 _3b: how far are you with your project? 23:51:15 <_3b> p_l: hard to say... it is very incomplete, and horrible code, but almost to the point where it would be useful for what i want to do 23:51:33 <_3b> main thing missing is the tree shaking stuff, which is what i need dependencies for 23:51:34 are you going to publish it? 23:51:41 _3b: do you have complete opcode list? 23:51:48 <_3b> Fade: it is up on github already 23:51:56 ah, cool. where? 23:52:33 <_3b> p_l: depends on how you define 'complete'... doesn't cover the entire 0..255 range, but since they are still adding opcodes, i assume it isn't full yet 23:52:46 _3b: cause even though all of my personal projects got halted for now, I'm still interested in doing some research for my "BASTARD" DSL ;-) 23:53:03 <_3b> Fade: http://github.com/3b/3bil is it 23:53:17 i'll check it out. thanks 23:53:39 *Xach* is nearing the finish line on his search program 23:54:35 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 23:57:13 what is the search program you are working on? 23:57:14 *Xach* is more hyper than hypercard 23:57:34 tic: usenet article keyword search. 23:57:51 Xach, how are keywords extracted? 23:58:22 tic: a little awkwardly. i wish it was smarter about splitting up the text. 23:58:46 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 23:58:52 *_3b* wonders if i should just cheat and hard code a limited set of deps for mochi ad lib for preloader, or maybe compile a preloader with flash tools or something 23:58:56 but i'm pleased with how fast the search is. there are only about 5,100 articles and 40,000 terms, so for about 30MB I can have super fast lookup. 23:59:03 Neat. 23:59:11 hooray for bit vectors and bit-and and bit-andc2! 23:59:13 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:44 at some point I'd like to do graph-based (and tagged) information storage, instead of hierarchical filesystems.