00:00:12 eval tends to be frowned upon though 00:05:01 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:14 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 00:07:05 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-3-148.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:12:10 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:12:53 -!- pr_ [n=pr@p579CAF42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 00:20:54 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:22:44 -!- ysph [n=user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:22:52 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:23:49 lithper1 [n=chatzill@72.8.31.2] has joined #lisp 00:25:16 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-16-102.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Valete!"] 00:25:33 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-16-102.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:28:25 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 00:29:48 -!- fe[nl]ix changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot 1.1.0, cl-gtk2 0.1.1, SBCL 1.0.34 00:34:46 madnificent [n=madnific@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:37:15 -!- bipt [i=bpt@cpe-075-182-092-215.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:42 bipt [i=bpt@cpe-075-182-095-015.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:37:47 -!- malsyned [n=malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:38:19 malsyned [n=malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:50 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:42:35 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["bed time"] 00:42:36 -!- davazp [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:43:17 -!- Xantoz [n=user@c-8cb7e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:47:04 daedra [n=simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has joined #lisp 00:47:28 hey, I'm trying to apply a function to the first element in one list, to each element in the second, then the second element in the first list to each element in the second (and so forth)... any ideas on whether (map) can do this? 00:48:14 how about transforming the lists to the desired form first? 00:48:27 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 00:49:09 the function takes two arguments - an element from first list, and an element from the second 00:49:36 I don't see how transforming them would help 00:50:29 (mapcar #'(lambda (a b) (....)) ((first list)(second list))) 00:50:31 ? 00:50:53 daedra: ... nested maps. 00:51:16 pkhuong: yeah thats what I was thinking 00:52:24 ah I'll look at how mapcar works first though 00:52:55 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-61-42.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:55:26 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 00:55:43 is there a way to look at how it works? 00:55:52 like a kind of 'view source' 00:55:59 M-. 00:56:30 ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-3-148.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 00:56:49 (in slime) 00:57:22 downloading it now... 00:57:37 but why do you need to know? 00:57:48 i like to know how things wor 00:57:49 k 00:59:15 that's an endless process 01:01:06 so is asking why 01:01:41 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:01:56 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.247.109.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:02:59 right, you need to know when to stop 01:03:55 has anyone successfully embedded ECL into other applications? i'm curious how much effort it would take. 01:04:49 lithper1: well, it's made for it, so I imagine not much. 01:05:47 http://createuniverses.blogspot.com/2009/06/embedding-lisp-interpreter-into-qt-app.html might be of some value 01:05:50 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 01:06:22 seangrov` [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:33 thanks, i can probably use that. 01:07:12 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 01:07:26 -!- seangrov` [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:07:32 daedra: it's turtles all the way down 01:07:51 daedra: do M-. on car. have fun 01:08:57 -!- timor [n=timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:09:13 rahul: huh, that's funny. 01:09:29 Xantoz [n=user@c-e9b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:09:43 -!- malsyned [n=malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:09:43 :P 01:12:59 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.206.86] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 01:13:51 -!- balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:15:01 malsyned [n=malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:20 manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6BE17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:35 Intensity [i=[iKhVexW@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 01:21:19 -!- malsyned [n=malsyned@adsl-75-35-185-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:23:12 wubbster [n=wubbster@75.108.251.102] has joined #lisp 01:23:50 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 01:24:25 -!- wubbster [n=wubbster@75.108.251.102] has left #lisp 01:25:17 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6BE17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:29 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:33:01 jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:10 -!- lithper1 [n=chatzill@72.8.31.2] has quit [Client Quit] 01:36:56 hmm I don't seem to have a tags table 01:37:34 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:38:16 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:38:24 I am invoking M-. on car, and slime replies with "Visit tags table (default TAGS)" and a prompt. /home/daedra/TAGS does not exist 01:38:46 maybe I do have one, I'm just not looking in the right place 01:38:53 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.77.65.198] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:40:36 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:50 daedra: sounds like you're not in a buffer that's in slime-mode 01:41:04 slime-repl or a .lisp file buffer 01:42:08 or M-x slime-scratch 01:42:40 I really need to get to grips with emacs itself before I mess around 01:42:57 I'll come back in a while when I've familiarised myself 01:47:54 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-xrkbebrgbingffek] has left #lisp 01:53:22 -!- cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["(need food)"] 01:56:01 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FA37.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:58:57 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]"] 02:01:16 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:04:10 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:06:23 hefner_ [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-252.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 02:07:24 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-112-114.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:07:52 -!- derrida 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[n=user@adsl-99-64-118-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:06 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-3-148.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:58:44 huh. ECL doesn't like you trying to close *standard-input*. Nothing else seems to mind. 03:59:44 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:00:11 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-64-118-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:00:40 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:02:44 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-69-251-24-39.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:06 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.135.59] has joined #lisp 04:06:10 -!- ruediger_ [n=quassel@93-82-8-123.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:15:48 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-16-23.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:17:29 Does closing a concatenated-stream close the streams its made from? 04:18:02 ah. no it doesn't, according to the standard. 04:18:07 konr [n=user@189.96.204.201] has joined #lisp 04:22:09 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.253.146] has quit [Read error: 110 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quit ["leaving"] 06:26:07 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["brb"] 06:29:12 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:33:18 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:34:02 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.94.24] has left #lisp 06:35:54 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:38:57 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-74.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:43:20 -!- jleija_ [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-201.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit ["leaving"] 06:46:32 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 06:54:29 -!- tvaalen [n=r@unaffiliated/tvaal] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:54:33 tvaalen [n=r@terminal.se] has joined #lisp 06:54:37 Summermute66 [n=Summermu@c-69-251-24-39.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:38 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:03:03 -!- DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:03:19 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:03:41 DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:17 c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.142.101] has joined #lisp 07:07:37 afternoon all 07:07:46 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:11:45 uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #lisp 07:11:58 is SICP a good text for learning Lisp/functional programming? 07:12:12 (I'm aware that SICP teaches Scheme, not CL, but I assume people here might still have an opinion) 07:12:43 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-69-251-24-39.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:12:48 maybe it'd be more accurate to say "uses" Scheme than "teaches" Scheme. Anyway. 07:14:42 "a subset therefore" :) 07:15:12 Zhivago: hmm? Where you talking to me? 07:15:23 *Were 07:16:07 -!- borism [n=boris@213-35-233-3-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:16:24 borism [n=boris@213-35-233-3-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 07:16:50 uman, sicp is a great book but it won't get you up to speed with the current functional programming fad or teach you common lisp :) 07:17:34 c|mell: I didn't say I wanted to learn CL, just that I'd lie to learn some dialect of Lisp 07:17:46 although if you can provide arguments for why CL is better, I'd be glad to hear them :) 07:21:17 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [] 07:31:02 i like common lisp because it quite easy to make real world programs portable across a selection of mature implementations 07:31:15 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:31:51 drewc: i ended up implementing my own accounting framework 07:32:05 with debits and credits, and also a separate "balance" counter 07:32:59 just need a way to model variable/dynamic pricing, and "value-add" or "extras", various service/product tweaks and how that might affect the final price. 07:33:20 data modeling is not my strongest skill 07:34:01 ended up modeling demographic data with postgres bitfields; i was forced to predefine the segments, but it was doable 07:35:30 -!- rrice [n=rrice@adsl-76-244-145-54.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:39:11 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:47:56 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 07:49:01 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.116.8] has joined #lisp 07:51:10 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.116.8] has left #lisp 07:51:41 anair_84 [n=anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:54 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:08:49 -!- jmbr_ is now known as jmbr 08:16:50 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@194.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:17:15 Is in lisp something like SortedSet? 08:18:09 splittist [i=bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-zudwinglsyyvwyab] has joined #lisp 08:18:14 morning 08:20:52 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [] 08:22:22 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f756d30.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:51 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:26:51 snearch [n=olaf@e179142053.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:59 milanj [n=milan@93.86.54.70] has joined #lisp 08:30:27 -!- topo [n=topo@190.232.44.65] has quit [] 08:32:45 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@142.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:44:33 jmbr__ [n=jmbr@70.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:48:14 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 08:50:04 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:56:16 bah 08:56:38 am I blind, or does CFFI have no function API for calling foreign functions? 08:56:42 all I can see is macros 08:56:59 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-74.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:21 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.110.205] has joined #lisp 08:59:29 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 09:01:10 mathrick: can't you just call the "foreign" function normally? 09:01:21 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@194.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:01:59 (def-routine main int ((argc int) (argv (void-ptr))) then (main) more or less 09:02:26 fusss: æh? 09:02:30 (let ((args ...)) (apply #'main (length args) args))) 09:02:31 what's def-routine? 09:02:39 and what do you mean by "normally"? 09:02:57 HG` [n=HG@85.8.71.216] has joined #lisp 09:02:57 mathrick: that's my wrapper for the CFFI macro that does def-alien-routine or def-c-routine 09:03:16 *fusss* converted code base from CMUCL FFI, to SBCL FFI, then CFFI; the macro maintains quirks 09:03:42 CFFI has no DEF-C-ROUTINE, it's DEFCFUN 09:03:50 and the whole problem is that it's a macro 09:03:51 mathrick: cffi does the most sensible thing firs. so if in doubt, try the most obvious. 09:04:04 so you can't generate it ahead of time, you're screwed 09:04:11 *if 09:05:04 hmmm 09:05:34 it wouldn't be such a problem if there were FOREIGN-FUNCALL-* that were functions 09:05:36 but all are macros 09:12:27 well they will expand down to a function call IIUC 09:14:07 Adlai pasted "Curious SBCL Disassembly" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93175 09:15:48 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:16:41 -!- Intensity [i=[iKhVexW@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:17:59 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:20:38 c|mell: sure, but it's all implementation-specific function calls 09:20:48 the idea behind CFFI is to have it consistent across impls 09:21:55 Adlai annotated #93175 "This is more confusing..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93175#1 09:22:32 mathrick, you could always (eval `(defcfun ..)) 09:23:49 postamar [n=postamar@AMarseille-252-1-21-26.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:24:13 is what you're asking for something like (funcall-cfun ("main" int (int void-ptr)) 0 ()) 09:25:14 -!- anair_84 [n=anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:26:10 Intensity [i=[bcjlWLN@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 09:26:24 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:28 does the author of postmodern hangout here? (Marijn Haverbeke) 09:30:41 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 09:34:41 a better way to define postgres enums for postmodern would be nice. unlike the crude (query "CREATE TYPE campaignstatus AS ENUM ('pending', 'running', 'paused', 'cancelled', 'ended')") 09:35:29 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.29.223] has joined #lisp 09:43:40 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 09:43:57 balooga1 [n=00u4440@adsl-99-162-211-249.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:04 jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-26-192-128.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:50:19 serichsen [n=user@g228218082.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:50:30 hi 09:50:53 -!- Xantoz [n=user@c-e9b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:51:04 hey serichsen 09:51:14 Xantoz [n=user@c-e9b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:56:24 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 09:57:00 Krystof: yes 09:57:37 Adlai: that's just gross 09:58:13 -!- Madsy [n=madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit ["leaving"] 09:58:54 fusss: is there a huge problem to just whip up the appropriate macro using postmodern's query generation mechanism and submit it upstream? 09:59:59 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-142-250.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:00:08 none at all, but the documentation contradicts the code: there many things already implemented that the documentation says are not. so i am guessing things are in flux at the moment? 10:00:12 Krystof: I looked at doing it briefly, but it seems more involved than I'd like to touch right now, since there's no macroless stage early enough just to hook into 10:00:30 it's all macros  macros  macros  BAM, implementation-specific 10:00:52 fusss: oh, I see 10:00:59 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-99-162-211-249.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:01:27 fusss: if I were you, I'd implement it for myself if he doesn't show up in the next 15 minutes, and then wait for an answer :) 10:02:43 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [] 10:03:20 mathrick, why do you care so much about the macros? are you worried about it being slow? 10:03:28 c|mell: err? 10:03:44 no, if all you have are macros, you can't do anything at runtime 10:04:05 that's why you should generally try to offer macros as a convenience layer on top of primarily-functional interface 10:04:08 *a 10:04:17 mathrick, do you have some sort of religious objection to eval? 10:04:24 umm 10:04:34 EVAL is almost always wrong 10:04:46 why? 10:04:58 *c|mell* is an atheist 10:05:09 because there are better solutions 10:05:15 like having a proper functional interface 10:05:28 also, macros should be use if *nothing else* works 10:05:32 not just because 10:05:35 *used 10:06:28 c|mell: this has been discussed to death, here and elsewhere, I'm too busy to rehash it once again 10:07:11 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:08:11 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BE17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:21 mathrick, use foreign-symbol-pointer and then foreign-funcall-pointer? 10:10:33 and what do I do about the args? 10:10:38 you can't be that busy or you would have just used eval :) 10:11:08 anyway, this is not a productive discussion 10:11:11 you have varying args too? :( 10:11:39 duh 10:11:49 -!- hefner_ is now known as hefner 10:11:55 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 10:12:45 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-71-139.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:17:21 -!- HG` [n=HG@85.8.71.216] has quit [Client Quit] 10:19:05 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit ["computers are crap ....."] 10:19:18 -!- Dawgmatix_ [n=dman@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:20:13 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:20:31 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 10:23:14 plage [n=user@118.68.196.12] has joined #lisp 10:23:21 Good afternoon! 10:27:29 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-26-192-128.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:27:56 jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-31-238-77.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:29:15 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:30:29 hey plage 10:31:00 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:33:45 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BE17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 10:35:34 -!- Summermute66 [n=Summermu@c-69-251-24-39.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]"] 10:36:08 Xach: +1 on the Prism link on /lisp/ 10:40:05 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:41:24 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:42:56 -!- Intensity [i=[bcjlWLN@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:43:10 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:45:10 mathrick [n=mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 10:46:01 mihk [n=mihk@xdsl-78-35-140-249.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:46:03 alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 10:47:14 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-205-122.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:48:09 Intensity [i=[1pUJy44@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 10:48:44 has anyone tried compiling prism or swik under non-ACL yet? 10:48:56 a grep didn't show vast amounts of excl: in the code 11:05:56 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:09:42 -!- jmbr__ [n=jmbr@70.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:09:46 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-61-42.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:10:11 pemryan [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has joined #lisp 11:12:19 somecodehere [n=ingvar@75.186.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] 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[i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/freenode/x-mntcjeendrzsspoy] has joined #lisp 12:00:08 slik? 12:12:18 rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:15:55 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:17:12 -!- [1]Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-101-165.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:17:26 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:21:05 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:21:54 guest391482 [n=guest391@89.100.34.191] has joined #lisp 12:21:56 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:22:49 Xach: possibly 12:25:09 *Xach* has full-text article searching working, must wire that up to the web in a useful and safe way 12:25:19 if I emit `(progn (setf *some-data*) (macro-using-some-data)), can I expect *SOME-DATA* to be set by the time MACRO-USING-SOME-DATA is expanded? 12:34:09 jmbr__ [n=jmbr@70.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:36:28 Why would you expect the code to be executed before it is even compiled? 12:37:48 interpreted? 12:38:10 -!- ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/freenode/x-mntcjeendrzsspoy] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 12:42:21 skald [n=skald@126-101-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:28 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:44:28 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.29.223] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:44:33 deepfire: well, that's why I asked, because I didn't really think I could expect it 12:45:12 guess I need to wrap it in EVAL-WHEN then 12:48:59 -!- yacin [n=yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:52:18 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:52:36 gabnet [n=gabnet@226.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:55 prxq [n=mommer@f051013198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:55:04 hi 13:01:03 hi msm 13:02:15 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-159-211-99.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:49 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.33.203] has joined #lisp 13:06:34 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 13:07:15 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:09:19 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483BB51.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:01 -!- snearch [n=olaf@e179142053.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:10:09 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-8699.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 13:14:36 mathrick, you may want to look at compiler-let (sb-cltl:compiler-let) 13:15:51 note that it was dropped from cl because you can emulate its effect with cunning use of macrolet 13:16:43 the eval-when trick does not work depending on top-level-formness i think 13:17:06 well, I can figure it out somehow, right now I'm trying to understand why symbols aren't themselves in this macro of mine 13:17:47 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:17:49 c|mell: it's inside a PROGN and meant to be placed in the toplevel, I'll worry about COMPILER-LET when someone comes with a legitimate need to place it not at toplevel :) 13:20:16 oh man, I should've got used to that by now 13:20:27 of course the problem was that 'FOO is *not* a symbol 13:24:18 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:29:13 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:13 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:41 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:37:59 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:38:28 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:49 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=root13@li130-87.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 60 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[n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:06:58 envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:07:19 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Client Quit] 14:08:37 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:09:14 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit ["Am I missing an eyebrow?"] 14:12:30 galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-44-201.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:13:29 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-29-138-207.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:25:49 envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:25:55 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:27:54 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:31:01 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:07 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@134.61.80.139] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:43:51 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439907.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:45:43 -!- soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:50:05 ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-24-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 14:51:13 Can anyone comment on the Apple Wireless Keyboard as a Lisp hacking tool? 14:53:01 Xach: I like the wired version's mechanism and general feel. 14:53:11 envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:53:19 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:53:45 maxalwings [n=user@196.12.149.72] has joined #lisp 14:55:07 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:55:35 how to install LISP on mac's command line 14:56:17 -!- balooga1 [n=00u4440@adsl-99-162-211-249.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:02:16 jleija 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[n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:49 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:03 KatrinaTheLamia [n=root13@li130-87.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:21 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:31:21 -!- Intensity [i=[1pUJy44@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:31:26 djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:34:42 maxalwin` [n=user@196.12.150.137] has joined #lisp 15:35:29 -!- Dodek [i=dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:36:22 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.139.201] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:36:35 Intensity [i=[n4t3vNi@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 15:36:35 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.139.201] has joined #lisp 15:38:25 Xach: my experience is pkhuong's. I have replaced both my main keyboards with the small wired apple keyboard. (One US and one 'International English', just for that extra uncertainty as to where the return key is...) 15:40:17 ok, thanks for the info, fellows. 15:40:31 oh yeah. The international versions suck. Weird return key and tilde is replaced by an extra character (and relegated to the bottom left corner of the keyboard). 15:40:36 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.110.205] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:40:48 i am all-american 15:41:14 splittist: what's the difference between them ? 15:42:24 Is there no real nice way of dealing with references to symbols that don't exist at compile time, ie avoiding the warnings 15:42:48 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-64-118-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:41 Guthur: how can you refer to a symbol that doesn't exist? 15:45:43 Axius [n=oijhif@92.85.24.96] has joined #lisp 15:46:42 it will exist though, but I will admittedly be left with the problem what happens if doesn't get interned during runtime 15:47:37 umm though i have only tried this from the repl maybe it wouldn't work in normal running 15:48:49 I am trying to reflect foreign variables (shader variables), without requiring explicit definition 15:49:32 -!- maxalwin` [n=user@196.12.150.137] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:50:02 so the idea I am trying out is to define a shader program class at runtime with all the variables availables 15:51:16 -!- Axius [n=oijhif@92.85.24.96] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:53:31 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:53:37 It would of course be infinitely better if I could express the whole shader in lisp, then this could all be worked out at compile time, that might be a later endeavour 15:54:26 <_3b> nah, then you would just get stuck again next time you wanted to load a shader at runtime :p 15:55:16 umm ya, so I suppose this mechanism might come in handy then 15:56:52 soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #lisp 15:57:18 -!- maxalwings [n=user@196.12.149.72] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:59:34 jmbr___ [n=jmbr@97.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:59:50 Dodek [i=dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 16:00:15 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:02:32 -!- jmbr__ [n=jmbr@70.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:03:26 I'm thinking the only safe'ish way of doing it as well would be to require the user to reference them as unexported symbols for the shaders package, so as to avoid accidentally stumping over something 16:05:09 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:07:00 eno_ [n=eno@70.137.156.54] has joined #lisp 16:10:24 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-24-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:11:49 Guthur: the only safe way is to require explicit definitions. 16:12:49 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:13:09 what do you guys do for simple statistics for program debugging? I want histograms at the moment and hist.cl from cmu ai repo seems like the obvious choice 16:13:41 I load it up in R. 16:14:05 copy and paste values, or? 16:14:30 right now I'm basically printf-debugging except that my loops run so many times that I can't print every value. so I need some kind of statistical sampling 16:14:49 save in a buffer and print to stdout or a log file. 16:15:20 can you give me an example R incantation? I've never used it 16:16:51 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:11 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:17:58 data <- read.table("/tmp/foo.data"); hist(data[,1]) 16:18:35 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 16:18:44 to save to a png, you put a `png("/path/to/output.png")' before the call to hist. and dev.off() to pop the backend stack back to the default. 16:19:08 all from emacs via ESS-mode. 16:20:42 francogrex [n=user@91.177.55.169] has joined #lisp 16:21:07 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/s_declar.htm#declare the example nonensense gives me error: The variable Z is unbound! 16:22:25 2 implementations: ecl and sbcl 16:22:37 both don't support local declare? 16:22:55 "you are doing it wrong" 16:23:56 probably, I just copy pasted 16:26:46 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.166.88.3] has joined #lisp 16:27:40 pkhuong: thanks! I'll check out ess 16:27:57 <_3b> francogrex: you need to bind Z as a special var before calling that function 16:28:31 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.219.119] has joined #lisp 16:29:50 <_3b> francogrex: that Z being unbound otherwise means the declaration worked 16:32:19 the section after that example explains everything 16:32:23 stassats`: initializing the fs caches works for me 16:32:34 much nicer experience now 16:32:40 tcr: great 16:33:03 Did I leave anything as a memo for you? 16:33:54 i don't remember 16:34:21 there's no ,save-system repl shortcut 16:34:44 Did you work on the restore-setup thing? I liked pkhuong's suggestion to name it ,tabula-rasa 16:35:06 and there should be? and i didn't work on it yet 16:36:03 ok 16:36:22 there should be regarding ,save-system? 16:37:05 yes, since i'm not really sure what to put into "," and what not to 16:37:25 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-16-102.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Valete!"] 16:38:10 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:38:54 Russel-Athletic [n=engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #lisp 16:38:57 hiho 16:39:04 stuff related to overall image state should get a repl shortcut 16:39:25 pr [n=pr@p579CAF42.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:54 i have a problem using hunchentoot and cl-who: i basically have some site using (with-html-output stuff and after some normal tags a bit of lisp code 16:39:55 -!- nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:39:56 stassats`: dunno, in this case it should be because ,open-system is too 16:40:06 but it cuts everything above including the lisp code from the output 16:40:14 what am i doing wrong? 16:40:34 without the lisp code it works 16:41:06 Russel-Athletic: it's hard to say what you are doing wrong without looking at the code 16:41:09 lisppaste: url? 16:41:09 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 16:41:34 Russel-Athletic pasted "test-page" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93185 16:41:47 there it is 16:42:33 i thought so, you should use with-html-output-to-string 16:42:54 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:43:00 oh that works 16:43:06 so what is the difference? 16:43:16 -!- Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:43:21 and why did the normal output not work with the lisp code? 16:43:38 it worked, but not how you expected it 16:43:56 can you explain this further? 16:43:59 it was printing to the standard output 16:44:20 and the server just posted the standard output? 16:44:40 no, server posted the return value of that function 16:45:35 which sometimes happens to be the same as the output to the stream 16:46:01 ok i get it 16:46:03 thanks 16:47:56 -!- Russel-Athletic [n=engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit ["leaving"] 16:48:53 jmbr____ [n=jmbr@248.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:50:59 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.177.55.169] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:52:17 -!- jmbr___ [n=jmbr@97.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:57:29 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-64-118-11.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:02:35 serichse` [n=user@g228152043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:02:42 stassats`: can you make C-y insert the frame call to a new repl prompt? 17:06:27 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-58-48.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:06:37 -!- h_durer [n=holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:08:30 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:09:33 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.132.98.191] has joined #lisp 17:14:21 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.166.88.3] has left #lisp 17:14:33 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-16-102.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:15:34 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 17:17:48 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:51 -!- serichsen [n=user@g228218082.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:19:01 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:22:35 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 17:23:38 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:40 jleija_ [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:05 -!- jleija_ [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:29:00 Holcxjo [n=holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:22 -!- Holcxjo is now known as h_durer 17:32:52 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:33:41 rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:34:03 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:35:22 nostoi [n=nostoi@22.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:49 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:29 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 17:45:56 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit [Client Quit] 17:46:33 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 17:47:17 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 17:48:37 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit [Client Quit] 17:48:41 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:36 -!- gabnet [n=gabnet@226.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 17:56:23 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 18:01:36 god damnit mdj, stop opening your mouth far enough that Madhu can shove your foot in it and maybe he'll stop posting!? 18:04:33 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-31-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:58 slyrus___ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-31-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:39 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-61-42.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:06:47 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-74.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:06:48 ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-24-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:06:49 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@22.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 18:06:54 -!- slyrus___ is now known as slyrus 18:07:02 isn't that what killfiles are for? 18:07:51 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:08:23 milanj- [n=milan@93.87.167.224] has joined #lisp 18:11:04 cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:02 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:16:47 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.54.70] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:17:55 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-96-224-31-174.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:03 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 18:21:51 etate [n=cmalune@209.123.147.15] has joined #lisp 18:22:07 'morning 18:22:08 hello ppl, has anyone written a skeletal animation based system in CL? 18:23:30 etate: I don't know if Mirai did that. I think it did. 18:23:50 redblue [i=star@ppp041.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:23:54 Hi Xach, how's the usenet indexing going? 18:24:26 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-80.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:24:45 Xach: that looks very commercial to me 18:25:10 tcr: I'm about to give up on montezuma and write my own tokenizer/indexer. 18:25:26 etate: To me too.d 18:25:45 yacin [n=yacin@lawn-128-61-114-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 18:26:21 lambdanature [n=mike@theoden.wildpaner.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:26 What's bad about it? 18:26:27 Xach: im interested more in the concepts, i'm building one myself so it would be useful to speak to someone whos done something similar in CL 18:26:36 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 18:26:45 ramus: i rarely use my killfile.. killing individuals still gets replies to them through, and killing threads on c.l.l. is asking to miss those excellent nuggets of technical wisdom that always show up on the wacky threads. 18:27:01 hey etate 18:27:44 tcr: It's a bad fit for what I want in a high number of small ways. Correcting the many small ways seems like more work than doing it from scratch. 18:27:50 drewc: hey :) 18:28:16 -!- postamar [n=postamar@AMarseille-252-1-21-26.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 18:28:38 drewc: gnus can handle it so that you can put someone in your killfile, and the thread will die unless someone from your whitelist that you value very much replies 18:28:39 Xach: rucksack has an interesting take on indexes, though i use montezuma for full text 18:29:04 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-74.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:29:12 another question i have is, is there an efficiency gain in creating structs of type :vector over an array? 18:29:14 drewc: Do you customize the "natural" search language? Do you do custom scoring? 18:29:37 Part of what makes the small fixes seem hard is the difficulty I'm having finding documentation for the things I want to change. 18:29:55 seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:56 Xach: we're currently just doing simple full text search without syntax for logic etc, and no, no custom scoring. 18:30:01 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 18:30:51 etate: unlikely. 18:31:03 I want to do Lisp-friendly tokenizing (so you could search for IF* or DEFINE-CONDITION and get a useful result), I want the scoring to always be chronological, and I want only simple term or quoted phrase search (with negation on any term or phrase) 18:31:35 drewc: fair enough :) 18:32:07 benny: well, then i might miss something insightful from someone i don't value! :) 18:32:08 perhaps you should bug lpolzer_, if it hasn't changed, he had interest in removing rough edges for other people 18:32:34 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@66.112.249.238] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:32:39 alexbobp [n=alex@66.112.249.238] has joined #lisp 18:32:59 tcr: I'll sign up for the list and talk about what I want to do. 18:33:29 pkhuong, splittist: thanks for the info. I got a wireless keyboard today and I like it. 18:34:00 Xach: what did you get? does it have a pointer control of some sort on board? 18:34:09 apple wireless 18:34:12 *drewc* wants something for the 'media' pc 18:34:14 no pointer 18:34:22 damn 18:34:51 the only one i've seen that is wireless and has a pointer is the MS media centre keyboard thing... 18:34:52 -!- lambdanature [n=mike@theoden.wildpaner.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:35:12 right now we have an ibm thinkpad style keyboard on a long wire :) 18:37:27 gabnet [n=gabnet@226.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:28 also i was wondering, is there a way of having more than 4 methods that specialize on a class? 18:38:52 e.g: theres :before, :after and :Around, then the primary method, but what if i want to have lots of :before methods 18:39:20 JigabuMemin [n=JigabuMe@201.170.174.27.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:46 instead of just the 1 18:39:50 you'll have to write a method combination. 18:41:01 pkhuong: ahh okay, thanks 18:41:08 in a graphics program that approach can lead to performance issues. 18:41:28 -!- fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:41:39 fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-165-27.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:23 Happy Thaturday to all you lithperth out there in thyberthpathe! 18:42:46 JigabuMemin: go away. 18:43:04 What did I to to make you sthoo me away? 18:43:07 Fade: the method combination stuff or are you referring to something else? 18:43:10 Are you thad? 18:43:36 Funny! 18:43:38 We are all in thith thupport group together, and together we will overcome our thpeech impediment. 18:44:17 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:45:00 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 18:45:07 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has been kicked from #lisp 18:45:12 JigabuMemin [n=JigabuMe@201.170.174.27.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:16 Why wath I banned? 18:45:29 -!- Krystof has set mode -b Jigbooot!*@* 18:45:34 I thought thith wath the lithp channel! 18:45:36 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*@*.170.174.27.dsl.dyn.telnor.net 18:45:43 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has been kicked from #lisp 18:46:08 some day I would like to move to a server which has a ban list, rather than a non-adjustable ban vector 18:46:31 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-68.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:49:26 etate: well, the method combination stuff. 18:50:49 also, slot accessors 18:51:09 but whatever. mileage varies. you can deal with that stuff after the program is written. 18:51:45 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-61-42.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:51:57 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:52:16 marioxcc [n=user@200.77.65.198] has joined #lisp 18:52:35 etate1 [n=cmalune@209.123.147.15] has joined #lisp 18:52:39 etate: why would you ever need more than one :before method per class? 18:52:40 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-8699.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:52:48 *drewc* is trying to come up with a use case, and can't 18:53:08 drewc: i want to do multiple render passes in my 3d renderer 18:53:30 drewc: and the operate-on-all method which recursively renders the scene, is one pass 18:53:38 drewc: i might need more than 4 render passes 18:53:58 <_3b`> add another arg specialized on the pass? 18:54:09 etate1: i'm with you so far, but i'm failing to see the connection between 'render passes' and method combination... 18:54:41 _3b`: i could do that but that involves a big case statement :( 18:55:07 now i'm really confused, as adding another argument to dispatch on usually eliminates a case statement 18:55:28 drewc: oh yeah no you're right 18:55:35 *etate1* being silly 18:55:41 <_3b`> alternately, mixins with pass specific behavior could be interesting, and dispatch on those 18:55:49 it's a big language. 18:56:02 especially at the beginning. 18:56:08 etate1: you also might want to look at contextl .. each of you passes would be a 'layer' 18:56:37 useful if you need to re-order the passes or otherwise combine them 18:57:23 hmm interesting, also i was wondering if theres a way of dispatching on deftype 18:57:31 "deftyped" types 18:57:44 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 18:58:01 etate1: no.. not unless typecase counts 18:58:05 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:58:11 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:58:29 etate1: if you think about it for a second, it's easy to see why you can't dispatch on deftypes 18:59:12 drewc: is it to do with when they are checked? 18:59:43 as in in a method the specialized class is checked at runtime? 19:00:03 etate1: (deftype foo () 'list) (defmethod foo ((bar list)) ...) (Defmethod foo ((bar foo)) ..) (foo (list 2 3 4)) 19:00:15 which method is applicable? 19:00:44 etate1: not sure what you mean by 'checked' here. 19:01:14 it's ambiguous. 19:01:47 etate2 [n=cmalune@209.123.147.15] has joined #lisp 19:02:05 etate1: but, if you really need to dispatch on a deftype, there is predicate dispatch available in Pascal Constanza's FILTERED-FUNCTIONS 19:02:05 drewc: hmm good point 19:02:14 drewc: deftypes could be expanded 19:02:42 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-180-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:03:05 tcr: i don't follow.. how does that help the ambiguity problem? 19:03:18 *drewc* has not had coffee yet, apologizes if slow 19:03:35 *drewc* puts on a pot 19:03:37 There's no ambiguity anymore? Both expand to the same specializers, so it'd be a redefinition 19:05:07 Axius [n=oijhif@92.85.214.155] has joined #lisp 19:05:20 tcr: oh i see... fair enough, that would 'work'... 19:05:33 it'd also be nice to allow it in the superclass list of defclass; the purpose is to allow portability code to make (deftype foo () #+something 'something:class #+something-else 'else:class). I guess you solve that now by introducing a new slotless class. 19:06:13 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-61-42.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:06:38 or a macro, but yeah, i'd go with the slotless mixin 19:07:09 -!- xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:07:17 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-14805.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 19:07:29 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:39 xenosoz2 [n=xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 19:10:32 -!- etate [n=cmalune@209.123.147.15] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:10:32 sadiquea1 [n=sadiquea@122.172.20.223] has joined #lisp 19:10:56 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.33.203] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:11:34 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:12:19 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:14:16 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:14:33 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 19:14:42 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-57-237.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:47 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:16:56 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:00 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]"] 19:18:15 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-61-42.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:19:49 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-57-237.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:19:52 -!- etate1 [n=cmalune@209.123.147.15] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:20:11 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:41 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:20:49 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:05 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-201-8.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:45 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@66.112.249.238] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:26:04 etate [n=cmalune@209.123.147.15] has joined #lisp 19:32:20 -!- konr [n=user@189.96.204.201] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:33:19 -!- yacin [n=yacin@lawn-128-61-114-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:33:44 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.87.167.224] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:36:39 -!- soupdragon [n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:37:25 Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:53 yacin [n=yacin@lawn-128-61-114-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 19:39:22 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:41:46 ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-187-102.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:42:20 -!- uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Client Quit] 19:43:43 Beetny [n=Beetny@ppp118-210-79-106.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:23 -!- etate2 [n=cmalune@209.123.147.15] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:45:24 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 19:46:36 -!- gabnet [n=gabnet@226.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:47:52 -!- Axius [n=oijhif@92.85.214.155] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:51:18 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 19:54:45 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@cpe-75-83-148-114.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:55 -!- ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-187-102.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:55:39 -!- yacin [n=yacin@lawn-128-61-114-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:55:58 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.219.119] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:56:09 bah, it totally sucks of &key parameter can validly be NIL to denote the empty list 19:56:14 s/of/if/ 19:56:50 -!- etate [n=cmalune@209.123.147.15] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:56:54 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.20.41] has joined #lisp 19:57:23 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-24-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:01:10 necroforest [n=jarred@pool-173-79-12-74.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:57 I have Ubuntu installed with SBCL and the cl-asdf package; I'm trying to run an example program and am getting "The function ASDF is undefined." any ideas? 20:02:47 necroforest: In general, we recommend not to use a distribution's lisp packages; instead we recommend to use clbuild 20:02:57 But you're probably typing it wrong. 20:03:05 necroforest: also, SBCL comes with ASDF built in 20:03:09 hmm 20:03:15 so cl-asdf is likely to be messing things up 20:03:49 necroforest: but what tcr said is more important. Install SBCL from a tarball, install clbuild and build a fresh sbcl and install libraries that way 20:03:54 minion: tell necroforest about clbuild 20:03:55 necroforest: look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 20:04:24 drewc, cl-asdf is a dependency of the SBCL package 20:04:31 should I just manually build SBCL? 20:04:42 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@cpe-75-83-148-114.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 20:05:07 necroforest: first, remove and purge anything to do with lisp that your distro has installed 20:05:08 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:05:10 http://unya.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/linux-common-lisp-quickstart/ <--- slightly incorrect, but not much (requires thinking) tutorial 20:05:15 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:05:19 necroforest: then yes, build SBCL.. 20:05:20 necroforest: ^ 20:05:32 but first install sbcl from tarball.. as you need it to build sbcl 20:05:54 necroforest: you should load asdf. Sometimes with SBCL this can be done with (require :asdf). Otherwise (load "/path/to/asdf.lisp") 20:06:36 Otherwise, there's no asdf function, It's used as: (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op system) 20:08:00 bah something's changed in emacs 23.x, so symbols beginning with DEF are now intended like macros 20:08:24 makes it pretty bad for stuff called default-foo 20:08:26 tcr: same for "DO-"? 20:09:21 seems so 20:09:49 apparently i need SBCL to build SBCL? 20:09:56 -!- galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-44-201.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [] 20:09:59 I can live with that, I don't use do- for functions except for DOIT 20:10:07 necroforest: you need a CL implementation. 20:10:12 oh 20:10:19 necroforest: CMUCL, clisp, etc should do. 20:10:20 so i guess i'll reinstall SBCL so i can build it. 20:10:33 Yes :-) 20:12:26 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:13:00 -!- sadiquea1 [n=sadiquea@122.172.20.223] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:13:02 tcr: the def.* thing has been there for approximately ever 20:13:17 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.219.119] has joined #lisp 20:13:25 at least for me 20:13:33 certainly as old as emacs21, possibly even 19 20:13:59 Wonder why I haven't been bitten by it before 20:14:52 tcr: look at cl-indent.el 20:15:14 for me, the bit that handles "def" is under ";; backwards compatibility" 20:15:33 jordy_ [n=jordy@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:33 I just tested it on 21 20:15:44 -!- jordy_ [n=jordy@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:15:52 I wonder why the bit about fontifying such symbols is commented out though with a comment that it annoyed people 20:15:57 jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:39 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483BB51.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:17:37 tcr: def* is annoying. definitely-...-p doesn't name a macro. 20:19:02 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 20:19:02 I think I have to hack on slime-indentation 20:19:14 I wish for better indentation of lambda-lists 20:19:56 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:21:02 tcr: yes! 20:21:13 if anyone is looking for a new laptop, this hp probook 5310m is really nice... i finally gave up on the asus service and bought a new one instead of waiting for them... 20:21:58 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A3255.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22:03 attila_lendvai: i am in the market for a new laptop i think... running linux? 20:25:59 drewc, yes. wireless works, but the ethernet driver doesn't seem to be recognized 20:26:37 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:27:56 attila_lendvai: what kernel? Intel wireless? Nvidia Ethernet? 20:28:08 although it's intel's stuff i think, and they have nice linux support. one can check out and build it... 20:28:13 *drewc* has a lot of experience with linux on laptops and not workingy 20:28:30 Linux ed101 2.6.31-17-generic #54-Ubuntu SMP Thu Dec 10 17:01:44 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux 20:29:05 attila_lendvai: and it's a core duo yeah? 20:29:55 yes, i bought a 2.27 GHz one, not the ULV 1.4GHz 20:30:12 but they say the battery lasts 4+ hours with this also 20:30:21 if you spare it then it goes bove 6 20:30:27 *madnificent* likes his hp1710p too 20:30:45 i just had to fix the space key, but it's simple and there's description online how to 20:31:17 I have a ULV, it does 8 hours+ on the extra battery, 10 hours if you take care of it 20:31:28 that's after using it for one year 20:32:06 -!- Krystof has set mode -o Krystof 20:32:49 what HP mentions as battery life seems to be correct 20:35:09 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:36:02 ragnul [n=rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:13 -!- rahul [n=rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:36:47 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-68.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:42:32 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.142.101] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:42:51 -!- Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 20:43:20 IT MUST BE MY MEDICINE 20:43:23 WELL... 20:44:29 c|mell [n=cmell@202.137.142.101] has joined #lisp 20:45:06 hey c|mell, the performance articles were nice 20:45:11 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-64-182.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 20:45:13 unicode [n=user@95.214.75.239] has joined #lisp 20:47:34 rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:54 Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:49:15 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:49:24 thanks madnificent :) -- i'm planning to continue posting 20:49:29 yacin [n=yacin@lawn-128-61-114-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 20:49:48 c|mell: will you ensure it reaches plo, or should I monitor your own blog? 20:50:41 Xach doesn't like them and my blog will never get on planet lisp as far as i understand 20:50:44 benny [n=benny@i577A1548.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:57 -!- ragnul is now known as rahul 20:51:03 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-80.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:52:22 what's wrong with it? it's about lisp, no? 20:53:29 ask Xach :( 20:53:42 Xach: !! 20:54:05 i even made a filter for the atom feed to take out only the lisp posts 20:54:42 I'll bother him with it, but it is his decision. I'll monitor your blog directly 20:54:48 Yes but planet.lisp.org is run by Xach and he, understandably, puts stuff on it which is of his taste. (I don't say anything here about c|mell stuff, I haven't in fact read it. -- it's just that the metric "it's about Lisp, hence it ought to be put onto planet.lisp, is wrong.) 20:55:32 tcr: is there some written ruling for it, or is it just Xach's opinion that matters? 20:55:47 opinion 20:55:52 ok 20:56:09 c|mell: can you link me to the filtered atom feed? 20:56:25 the only rule I know of is that "if you do not post every once in some period of time, you're removed" 20:56:49 ah yes, I've seen him weed out the dead blogs before 20:58:44 madnificent, http://john.freml.in/feed.atom?tags=lisp 20:59:45 i requested that Xach add me when i found out that i had made this mistake http://john.freml.in/lisp-compiler-macroexpand-wrong 21:00:08 that apparently rubbed him the wrong way 21:01:23 c|mell: fwiw, a quick read over those posts shows a few statements that rub me the wrong as as well. 21:01:27 wrong way* 21:01:39 drewc: then comment on them! 21:02:17 Should I expect slime-fuzzy to work? When I do (slime-setup '(... slime-fuzzy...)) I get a slime-repl-mode-map undefined error. 21:02:21 "that rare thing: a program in Lisp that is comparable in speed to the best equivalent programs in efficient languages" 21:02:32 *c|mell* is always happy to correct his mistakes 21:03:03 That statement is innaccurate and misleading, and poppycock IMO 21:03:06 can you give another example? 21:03:10 sure 21:03:42 "With Common Lisp and other systems which don't trust the programmer to manage memory" 21:03:45 c|mell: all the lisp software that is in production systems 21:03:58 rpg_: Seems like you cannot use slime-fuzzy without slime-repl 21:04:00 c|mell: do you think that it's in production becuse it's slower? 21:04:06 rpg_: that's a bug, please post about it to slime-devel 21:04:09 heh, "don't trust" 21:04:17 <_3b> c|mell: sbcl doesn't expand compiler macros when they are declared notinline also (as per the spec) 21:04:17 drewc: fwiw, I know it will hurt the feelings of lispers, but it is a common misconception. Mentioning it like that gave me a feeling about what the blog-post would be talking about :) 21:04:32 c|mell: oh, you mean an example of fast code in CL besides yours? 21:04:33 hey, CPUs don't trust the programmer to design the circuits himself either 21:04:49 Madsy [n=madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 21:04:54 c|mell: maybe it's just that i find your writing style arrogant and standoffish. 21:05:12 madnificent: sorry, mentioning what like what? 21:05:36 tcr: I took out slime-repl, because I wanted access to the debugger w/o the sldb... 21:05:39 drewc: the first sentence you quoted from the blog post... took me longer than expected to formulate what I wanted to say :P 21:06:14 rpg_: No that's not right. You took out slime-repl because you want allegro's repl :-) 21:06:35 madnificent: it doesn't hurt the feelings of lispers because it's bullshit 21:06:38 I found the blog posts to contain some of the obvious things, but I found it a good thing to have. I'm hoping for some more in-depth material to optimize stuff for instance 21:06:52 madnificent: obviously wrong things? 21:07:24 rahul: like what? 21:07:41 madnificent: spouting bullshit won't lead to in-depth constructuve discussion 21:07:46 *madnificent* doesn't want a flamewar to arize from this, he wants to learn 21:07:51 madnificent: like what we've been talking about 21:07:59 if you don't want a flame war, don't flame heh 21:08:00 there is no such thing as an efficient language, for one. I have encountered many codebases that are fast and efficient in lisp, so it's not rare... 21:08:07 tcr: actually, I'm fine with slime's repl /until/ I fall into the debugger.... 21:08:25 Then SLIME doesn't let me do what I need to do with the debugger.... 21:08:30 yeah, what exactly are these hypothetical languages that are faster than lisp? 21:08:39 what you've been talking about is not the real topic of the articles imho. It handled about how to optimize stuff and when to do it.... you're shitting on the fact that he mentioned lisp being slow 21:08:44 because they're definitely not anything that's used in the mainstream 21:08:49 rpg_, I think you can bind *debugger-hook* to NIL to let the implementation's debugger kick in 21:08:50 rpg_: I think I once told you can use slime without sldb, I think I have to retract that comment, at least to some extent. But I'd have to look into the sources. 21:09:06 rpg_: what kind of thing? 21:09:11 tcr: I also don't know how to turn the repl off selectively (allegro only) and leave it on for SBCL and CCL. 21:09:31 madnificent: the problem i have with the blogposts is not so much the content, but that i might influence new lispers, such as yourself, who are not equipped to pick out the facts from the BS. 21:09:40 that it might influence* 21:10:00 tcr: I like to be able to interact with the local variables. This is very cumbersome in SLDB, because when I eval something it just goes into the minibuffer, where it doesn't do me much good... 21:10:09 drewc: I don't see myself as a new lisper anymore, I know far from everything, but I know more than most new lispers, I think 21:10:35 rpg_: Right, I'd like to implement eval-in-frame listeners. Just need a lil bit of funding. :-) 21:10:36 drewc: also, I've been searching -and asking- for information regarding the optimization of lisp code, and this article is the first I've come across 21:10:36 madnificent: that's fine... i will see you as a new lisper for a few years yet. 21:11:07 madnificent: which almost makes my point... i'd rather have no information available then mis-information 21:11:09 drewc: I think the conception of lisp being slow goes away when you learn to optimize things... when you see where consing happens etc 21:11:11 rpg_: I'll look another day for best ways of disabling sldb. I'm doing something else now 21:11:30 drewc: thanks for placing the word new in context though 21:11:53 what is so inevitably wrong about it then? 21:12:10 I don't mind you saying that it is wrong, but please do write on how it should be done then 21:12:27 The writing style, I guess. 21:12:30 madnificent: besides characterising lisp as slow, which is demonstrably false, and the arrogant tone? 21:12:39 drewc, well if you can give an example of another efficient lisp program with an actual name then i will take away the word "rare", how about that? 21:12:51 cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #lisp 21:12:51 c|mell: QPX 21:13:19 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:13:24 drewc, well played 21:13:50 if only i was playing 21:13:55 the fact that he characterizes it like that gave me no bad feeling about it. It is perfectly possible to write slow code in lisp, and you'll likely get trapped by it some time. He could've been more tactful, but I couldn't care less 21:14:23 afaict, you're just hurt by it... even though you claim not to be 21:14:36 madnificent: i just don't like bullshit... you seem to have an underdeveloped sense of smell 21:14:46 masm [n=masm@bl10-6-120.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:14:51 krl [n=user@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:15:05 drewc: and there it mostly ends when trying to get something decent out of your mouth... crap 21:15:06 madnificent: you can't tell very far then... 21:15:14 tcr: I'll try to get you a patch... 21:15:28 drewc: so on the actual topic, what do you have to add 21:15:42 i've changed it to machine orientated instead of efficient, and taken away rare, it will pop up in few minutes :) 21:15:43 drewc: the topic was how to write efficient code in CL, not that it was slow or whatnot 21:15:49 madnificent: if you say so.. you asked for my opinion, i gave it to you.. given that i was never addressing you in the first place, what the fuck do you want me to say? 21:16:00 Vonunov [n=jack@99.58.1.192] has joined #lisp 21:16:00 c|mell: apprecieted! 21:16:02 err 21:16:09 i can't spell that... 21:16:16 appreciated 21:16:22 c|mell: the problem on that sentence is not the "rare" bit which I think is accurate. 21:16:48 tcr: slime-presentations seems to look at this variable, too. 21:16:54 -!- masm [n=masm@bl10-6-120.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 21:17:08 rpg_: slime-presentations does not make sense without slime-repl 21:17:13 drewc: so, how do you go about optimizing code? how do you write things when they should be fast? 21:17:44 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:17:57 tcr: Perhaps this could be documented somehow? 21:18:07 madnificent: you seem to have this desire to twist my words and catch me in some logical inconsitency... i don't want to play your game, and i don't trust your motives. 21:18:08 It's easy to write fast lisp code. (cffi:defcfun ...) :) 21:18:28 sykopomp: that's not as fast as your think it's doing to be ;) 21:18:32 tcr: the plugin architecture for slime seems cool, but I'm not sure how effectively it can be cashed out into actual toggling of features... 21:18:34 drewc: no really, I'm not playing a game... I want to know 21:18:38 rpg_: For a completely strange endeavor like yours? (yes, it could) 21:18:52 rpg_: No it's not cool, because it's not plugins 21:19:08 tcr: I think I should go back to my original "use slime-fancy when I use slime and use ELI for Allegro." 21:19:08 drewc: it's going to be a hell of a lot faster if you don't bother writing any lisp besides that :) 21:19:14 rpg_: it's just transplanted code 21:19:22 tcr: s/plugins/contribs/ 21:19:45 drewc: I've seen you shit on the title and pretend to be better... but I have only received that it is possible to write fast code, and that you don't like his style (and his intro)... I'd like to find out what is wrong about his advice regarding code optimization 21:19:56 drewc: that, or you could write everything in CCL LAP. 21:19:57 tcr: I guess I dont' understand slime well enough to understand why it's desirable to have all these contribs instead of a monolithic mode... 21:20:00 sykopomp: I don't see why. 21:20:18 sykopomp: don't stir it up, it is easy to start a mindless flamewar here :P 21:20:21 rpg_: social/political issues 21:20:36 madnificent: sorry, I was just trying to contribute to the high-quality discussion about efficiency. 21:20:43 sykopomp: are you a very good ASM programmer? 21:20:55 drewc: no. I'm not convinced anyone is. 21:20:57 sykopomp: do you think you can output the same quality code that CCL does? 21:21:05 drewc: not too hard. 21:21:08 sykopomp: have you read the articles? do you have some insights about how code could be optimized better? 21:21:21 tcr: is there a wiki page or something that shows current suggested best way to call slime-setup? 21:21:24 is fast-but-incorrect a goal? 21:21:32 worthwhile^ 21:21:39 rpg_: (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) 21:21:39 tcr: Ah. So it isn't really intended as a plugin thing where you turn features on and off... 21:21:43 drewc: isn't that what C is all about? 21:22:13 sykopomp: no, i don't think so... that's just a byproduct 21:22:14 rpg_: Only superficially it is, in practise you're seeing what you get 21:22:28 sykopomp: is C always faster than lisp? 21:22:51 Is the C generated by ECL faster than ECL? 21:22:57 ok, so now we're totally off the topic of how to optimize lisp code, back to the claim that lisp is not necessarily faster... yay 21:23:07 pkhuong: hah good one 21:23:54 madnificent: how to optimize lisp, the 90% you need to know: profile the hotspots, change your algorithm. 21:24:20 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.132.98.191] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:24:27 *c|mell* has to write about profiling it seems 21:24:27 drewc: and use complex numbers to represent 2d vectors. 21:24:32 drewc: ok, now where is the information regarding "see if it is worth it" that c|mell made wrong? 21:24:32 madnificent: the rest has nothing to do with optimizing lisp, but rather optimizing a specific program for a specific compiler on a specific platform 21:24:37 c|mell: yes! 21:24:48 drewc: that is true 21:24:53 well, somewhat 21:24:55 madnificent: did i ever say c|mell was wrong? 21:24:57 and if you're using SBCL, stay away from declarations >:D 21:25:22 sykopomp: in other words "assume the compiler is smarter than you until you have evidence otherwise" 21:25:48 drewc: you said you didn't like it, and you preferred to claim that it would confuse newbies... no you didn't explicit him being wrong, but it was what I've asked for all along 21:26:23 madnificent: i have a lot of trouble parsing your sentances... you seem to skip words about 1/4 of the time! 21:26:46 madnificent: you are obviously confused, and you don't even consider yourself a newbie! 21:26:50 I have continuously asked if he was wrong 21:26:54 you refused to answer that question 21:26:59 well, you always worked around it 21:27:02 madnificent: was jesus wrong? 21:27:07 it's a stupid question 21:27:09 sykopomp: I'd use reals to represent 1d vectors, so complexes for 2d vectors make as much sense. 21:27:14 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:17 drewc: so, flaming, are we? 21:27:31 madnificent: no, but i can start if you'd like 21:27:45 thanks, tcr, all working again now... 21:27:51 in any case, drewc seems to make no valid point about the real content of c|mell's post 21:28:01 pkhuong: it was a solution that worked well, actually. I just wish I could've expressed it in a different way :P 21:28:09 madnificent: i made my points, you seem to want me to make points that i don't agree with. 21:28:19 rpg_: You should be able to use "B" in sldb to get into the implementation's native debugger. At least on sbcl that does not seem to work rather well. 21:28:33 and here i am playing madnificent's stupid game again. 21:28:34 rpg_: If it does not work on Allegro as well, you should post about it on the mailing list. 21:28:41 *drewc* /ignores 21:28:44 drewc: your only comments were on the first few sentences, never on the real topic 21:28:48 rpg_: I think it's a reasonable to want in case you're using Lispworks or Allegro 21:29:12 tcr: OK, I'll try to test it out and post. 21:29:14 madnificent: make like Virgin Mary 21:29:17 and "let it be" 21:29:27 madnificent: and yet, that feedback was useful enough that c|mell has made changes to the document... 21:29:39 drewc: go back to /ignore ing me please :) 21:30:05 madhu: ok 21:30:05 tcr: Is it worth posting about the dependencies on slime-repl, or would it be better just to have slime-presentations and slime-fuzzy vomit if you try to load them w/o slime-repl? 21:30:21 drewc: huh 21:30:25 drewc: freudian slip? 21:30:35 madhul* 21:30:57 tcr: heh, indeed 21:31:06 rpg_: slime-fuzzy should work without slime-repl, that's a bug; you can also suggest the barfing for slime-presentations 21:31:38 -!- krl [n=user@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 21:31:43 -!- jmbr____ is now known as jmbr 21:31:44 sykopomp: it's my second name, it comes from my mongolian warrior name, given to me as a 6 yo warrior... back in the days when I was the legend that saved the codez! 21:31:55 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.248.155] has joined #lisp 21:32:03 madnificent: what the fuck are you on about? 21:32:39 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-14805.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:32:42 nvm 21:34:42 there's nothing like a power fail to ruin the enjoyment of a perfectly good flame :( 21:34:47 tcr: OK, sent email per your suggestion. 21:34:47 It's unbelievable how difficult it is to maintain state properly. In this case, I only have to maintain a name, nicknames, and a docstring for readtables. 21:36:43 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-103-68.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:37:58 unicode_ [n=user@95.214.75.239] has joined #lisp 21:39:29 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:39:41 -!- tmh [n=user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit ["None"] 21:39:41 continuable errors make it extra hard 21:40:28 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f756d30.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:41:03 tcr: cool! Package error in asdf:load-op smashed SLIME.... 21:41:07 cools` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:23 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen 21:41:48 rpg_: huh :-) 21:41:59 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.20.41] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:42:25 -!- splittist [i=bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-zudwinglsyyvwyab] has quit ["yay for sed/sort/uniq!"] 21:42:56 -!- cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:43:17 cools`` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:37 cools``` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:37 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:46:48 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:47:43 cools```` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:11 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.139.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:56 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:52:56 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:54 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:22 Axius [n=oijhif@92.84.23.52] has joined #lisp 21:58:51 tcr: STM is all I have to say about that :) 21:59:23 (whether supported via a library or manually implemented via copy, modify, and commit) 21:59:54 -!- cools` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:59:58 and since you're not using it for multithreading, half the complexity disappears 22:01:38 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:02:37 -!- cools`` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:53 fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 22:04:33 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:04:43 -!- cools``` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:05:49 fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 22:08:17 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:41 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:44 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:09:15 -!- cools```` [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:16:46 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:17:29 TR2N [i=email@89-180-179-26.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 22:18:08 -!- yacin [n=yacin@lawn-128-61-114-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:24:50 yacin [n=yacin@lawn-128-61-114-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 22:25:02 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.219.119] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:25:53 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-76-119-52-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:28 -!- abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:30:19 yacin_ [n=yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 22:31:21 tcr: are you still about? 22:31:55 kind of, too tired to think straight 22:31:59 what's the matter? 22:32:42 tcr: My slime-devel posting bounced. 22:32:56 would you mind just forwarding it? 22:33:23 -!- yacin_ [n=yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:33:34 there isn't a launchpad for slime, is there? 22:34:15 nope there isn't, I've got the mail. I'll deal with the issues myself 22:34:21 thanks. 22:34:51 I've already am on a list of CL project mailers as long as my arm.... 22:35:28 *rpg_* is thinking of changing his middle name to "mailman" 22:35:33 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 22:36:22 -!- yacin [n=yacin@lawn-128-61-114-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 22:36:58 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:36:58 I just use gmane 22:37:49 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:37:51 I started using redmine recently, and I'm pretty happy with it :) 22:38:19 what is redmine? 22:38:35 http://www.redmine.org/ It's like trac. 22:38:44 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp041.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 22:38:55 except I think it's nicer. They're not too different, though. 22:39:32 i see. Thanks. 22:41:33 abugosh [n=Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:11 -!- Axius [n=oijhif@92.84.23.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:46:10 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:54:37 yacin [n=yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 22:55:20 -!- slyrus__ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-31-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:55:23 -!- Zephyrus [n=emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 22:58:43 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:00:10 pr_ [n=pr@p579CA851.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:19 Pepe__ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:39 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 23:04:35 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:08:18 mstevens [n=mstevens@81.2.103.24] has joined #lisp 23:09:10 does anyone know what the largest lisp applcation ever is? 23:10:12 googling i cant find it 23:11:38 unless its Macsyma 23:12:07 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 23:14:08 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-187-102.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:14:29 Maxima i mean 23:14:31 autocad? 23:14:51 i don't know how big it is. 23:15:50 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:50 what about, uh, the OS for the LispMs? 23:16:04 also, how do you define "largest"? 23:16:20 the OS for a LispM .. is proablby right 23:16:22 -!- Pepe__ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:16:39 -!- kleppari_ is now known as kleppari 23:16:45 the application with teh mopst source code you have to compile at once 23:17:12 well maybe not at once.. but have to have compiled to run it 23:17:28 the lisp OS would qualify 23:18:13 but not an appication that compiles huge abounts of user data to lisp code 23:18:18 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:19 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:18:21 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:25 (such as a semantic web app) 23:18:44 *araujo* also points out that probably there are way too many secrete lisp apps out there 23:18:58 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:19:01 emacs is pretty big 23:19:05 yeah i am asking to find out actaully is cyc is the biggest 23:19:39 emacs indeed might be bigger then an initial lisp os impl 23:19:48 autocad seems really big for me 23:20:02 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:20:16 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.112.195] has joined #lisp 23:21:56 madnificent: This link, and the first comment especially, is a good introduction to how to optimise CL code for speed : http://a-nickels-worth.blogspot.com/2008/03/optimizing-cl.html 23:22:24 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:22:41 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:23:34 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:36 (took me a while to find that bookmark.. should have just googled) 23:24:55 Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-1-90.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:25:32 -!- alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:30:31 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-61-42.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:32:01 -!- Madsy [n=madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [] 23:34:16 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 23:34:40 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:36:30 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:36:39 plage [n=user@118.68.196.12] has joined #lisp 23:37:01 madsy [n=madsy@ti0207a340-0091.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 23:37:05 Good morning! 23:38:46 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@mna75-4-82-225-76-148.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:55 alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 23:39:13 -!- alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:39:42 alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 23:40:02 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 23:40:52 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-67-237.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:44:09 -!- unicode_ [n=user@95.214.75.239] has left #lisp 23:44:10 -!- alley_cat [n=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Client Quit] 23:44:39 heya, plage 23:47:46 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:49:16 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 23:51:09 holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:58 -!- jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-0-201.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:52:06 abdel [n=abdel@ip116-61-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 23:52:27 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-61-42.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:56:44 question: after installing cl-opengl with ASDF, i can do * (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :cl-opengl) in SBCL and it works 23:56:56 however, i get errors when running this in SLIME 23:57:06 specifically omponent "cl-opengl" not found 23:59:01 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-58-48.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:59:04 is your *central-repository* a relative path?