00:27:47 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:47 00:27:47 -!- names: ccl-logbot daniel_ rread gigamonkey nvoorhies plutonas sepult ia araujo ASau dreish antoszka Phoodus tvaalen Zhivago Draggor Adrinael foom Aisling Xach j0ni zbigniew yacin p8m antifuchs moesenle scode luis ironChicken fgtech piso ramus` ianmcorvidae jyujin guaqua housel [df] alexsuraci wlr fihi09 qidush kuwabara1 krappie franki^ abeaumont Tordek cataska dostoyevsky Fade peddie nowhere_man bfein_ mgr Buganini Soulman ignas_ phadthai z0d ahaas 00:27:47 -!- names: drwho reid08` delYsid cools jrockway slyrus Fare shrughes mattrepl timor Jasko2 TuxPurple Edward_ cmsimon arbscht konr dalkvist_ Intensity dcrawford froydnj dek52 bfein blitz_ clog spoofy Lycurgus b4|hraban addled spec[away] dto kpreid mathrick xinming joast Pepe_ Khisanth Borbus emma bakkdoor codemonkeyx mtd tarbo tic hoeq nasloc__ koning_robot gz djinni` lichtblau avalanche^ foom2 prip gonzojive aking Xof spiaggia _deepfire _3b` vcgomes 00:27:47 -!- names: fnordus lolsuper_ spacebat johs nenorbot jsnell rapacity rootzlevel rdd lupine_85 Raptelan tessier aja Axioplase_ beach authentic koollman daniel kleppari Elench s0ber albino retupmoca Bucciarati esden bobrown`` cmm- schme ``Erik Spaghett1ni hohum_ qebab joga robewald l_a_m madnificent guaq dym Orest^bnc Dodek leadnose KatrinaTheLamia bdowning pragma_ Legooolas cupe Xantoz rsynnott borisc lukjad007 blast_hardcheese srcerer cods DrForr rbancroft 00:27:47 -!- names: rlonstein nareshov wakeup adeht Taggnostr rotty mornfall eno tltstc StanleyD xristos myrkraverk r0bby skeptomai anekos mikezor_ Adlai fiveop rullie sykopomp jsoft p_l benny felipe hdurer__ tmitt cpt_nemo Helheim nicktastic erg nuba frodef setheus ecraven herbieB ikki stepnem sykopomp|work Soulman__ dmiles huangjs` fawxtin` ski rey_ Tristam Madsy PissedNumlock sytse gruseom amnesiac egn mrsolo legumbre Patzy rrice ineiros_ ve ztzg kwinz3 pok 00:27:47 -!- names: kejsaren_ kejsaren2 dandersen billstclair Nshag redline6561 TJohn lemoinem REPLeffect_ Ginei_Morioka weirdo jthing lisppaste dfox wgl specbot minion reb jkantz slather _3b chii chiiph balooga swathanthran Guthur AntiSpamMeta timor1 marioxcc-AFK cmatei Hun baddog lnostdal ltriant schoppenhauer manituuuu dstatyvka rahul guenthr djm pr tsuru brandelune thijso boyscared saikatc gonzojive_ BrianRice leo2007 lharc Ralith disumu bgs100 hicx174 Guest7345 00:27:47 -!- names: proq nullman` borism_ ace4016 gz` lpolzer_ Fufie alexbobp xan LiamH sjbach 00:30:15 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-89-14.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:22 -!- sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:33:54 Demosthenes [n=demo@host162.155.212.34.conversent.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:02 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:34:08 -!- Guest7345 is now known as pkhuong 00:36:59 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:40:42 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:50 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-117.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:44:20 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:44:28 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:45:08 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:46:39 bigwavejake [n=bigwavej@user-0c8halu.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:31 so, i'm using slime-compile-and-load to execute my lisp code. But there's an error. How can I jump to that place in the code? 00:47:55 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:13 -!- JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 00:49:33 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["gnight"] 00:50:00 bigwavejake: are you in the debugger? 00:50:32 gigamonkey, yeah, it shows me the backtrace 00:50:53 Go to the line of the trace you want to see the source for and type 'v'. 00:51:30 How precisely it takes you to the error may depend on your Lisp implementation and what kind of debugging information it keeps around. 00:52:16 gigamonkey, I get frame-source-location not implemented. 00:52:36 and there are, like, 150 frames 00:52:48 i don't know where to start looking 00:53:01 Hmmm. What Lisp are you using? 00:53:38 clisp 00:53:42 I suspected. 00:54:06 You might have better luck with SBCL. 00:54:22 Which also has the advantage of being the Lisp used by many of the folks who hang out here. 00:54:23 are there any disadvantages to using sbcl on windows? 00:54:33 Ah, Windows. Well, that's another issue. :-( 00:54:41 bigwavejake: Maybe CCL then ? 00:54:44 I don't know the current state of play of SBCL on Windows. 00:54:45 minion, tell bigwavejake about ccl 00:54:46 bigwavejake: have a look at ccl: CCL is Clozure Common Lisp, or Clozure CL for short. http://www.cliki.net/ccl 00:55:01 Yeah. I'll let these guys help you out--I've got to run. 00:55:12 bigwavejake: I recommend CCL, worked fine for me 00:55:18 gigamonkey, thanks for the help 00:55:34 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:54 i'm using lispbuilder-sdl. i know that works with sbcl and clisp. with it work with ccl? 00:56:06 bigwavejake: It will work. 00:56:11 bigwavejake: What are you using it for? 00:56:15 games 00:56:27 bigwavejake: We're in #lispgames ;) 00:56:48 nice 00:57:01 Yeah we're pretty nice. 00:57:08 mostly OT rambling, but we're nice :) 00:58:12 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:11 -!- TJohn [i=as@118-168-235-252.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:03:21 -!- fawxtin` [n=user@150.162.165.254] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:03:32 fawxtin` [n=user@150.162.165.254] has joined #lisp 01:04:02 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d86-33-115-65.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:04:33 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 01:06:20 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 01:06:30 TuxPurple_ [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 01:06:39 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229120229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 01:07:33 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 01:08:10 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 01:12:53 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:13:53 -!- TuxPurple_ is now known as TuxPurple 01:17:28 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:18:08 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 01:22:29 -!- cmsimon [n=cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit ["brb."] 01:22:33 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 01:24:14 -!- bigwavejake [n=bigwavej@user-0c8halu.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:24:27 Demosthenex [n=demo@host162.155.212.34.conversent.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:39 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:29:41 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:28 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:36:09 rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:09 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:36:12 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 01:37:50 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@host162.155.212.34.conversent.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:40:38 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 01:41:27 rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:27 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:41:29 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 01:47:35 chenfengyuan| [n=chenfeng@117.136.10.14] has joined #lisp 01:57:04 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 02:02:17 -!- timor1 [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:02:24 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-30-111.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 02:02:44 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit ["Asta-la byebye"] 02:05:36 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 02:05:50 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:17 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCE2E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 02:07:39 TR2N [i=email@89.180.212.121] has joined #lisp 02:14:17 -!- xan [n=xan@13.Red-83-36-170.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:15:04 bigfang [n=user@121.233.99.140] has joined #lisp 02:15:28 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-jsblesuhzhldfhlc] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:15:46 -!- bigfang [n=user@121.233.99.140] has quit [Client Quit] 02:27:45 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:31:58 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:33:30 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:38:08 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 02:38:30 -!- chenfengyuan| [n=chenfeng@117.136.10.14] has quit ["used jmIrc"] 02:39:12 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:41:08 Some programs, like glame and festival, have a lisp language embedded. In what way can I use this feature to do neat things? 02:42:39 um by writing code that does what you want it to do 02:45:07 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 02:45:54 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:45:58 konr: utilize it for your own ideas, as with every other extension language 02:46:25 konr: say for example, when you start festival, it gives you a prompt where you can enter lisp s-expressions to evaluate stuff.. 02:54:17 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:54:47 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 02:54:50 pknodle [n=pknodle@pool-98-110-175-36.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:18 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:55:49 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:56:36 -!- pknodle [n=pknodle@pool-98-110-175-36.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:58:08 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:41 Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:20 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 03:02:04 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host86-136-49-51.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 03:03:03 pknodle [n=pknodle@pool-98-110-175-36.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:43 -!- pknodle [n=pknodle@pool-98-110-175-36.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:06:28 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:07:54 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:11:27 -!- Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 03:13:43 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 03:15:10 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:57 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:17:34 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:07 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:21:13 the things I can do with such programs seem so unimpressive :( 03:22:14 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:22:14 Is there a way to enumerate the slots of a structure? 03:22:59 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:25:39 Phoodus, you could use a structure of (:type vector) or (:type list), but then you'd have less control (no custom print function and no meaningful type specifier) 03:26:03 I want the list of getter functions for each slot 03:26:15 erm, the list of slot getter functions for the the struct 03:26:36 I'm just using regular default-typed structs 03:26:37 that's not portably available 03:26:45 hrm 03:27:04 I guess it's back to doing macro magic in defining the struct, to define helper sideband info myself 03:27:14 some implementations document the internals of their structure-object metaobjects 03:27:37 we want to stay portable yet 03:27:54 I don't think we rely on any internals yet 03:28:09 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 03:29:14 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-24-233.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:29:26 Phoodus: in SBCL definitely is, since describe gets it 03:29:33 redblue [i=star@ppp071.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:30:52 *Adlai* sees a potential trivial-struct-reflection library 03:31:04 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-30-199.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:31:23 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:32:50 i suppose you've considered going defstruct -> defclass 03:34:19 Phoodus: why do you think you need this? 03:36:14 making a programmatical key/value access to some of the config slots 03:36:47 don't want to have manually-maintained lists of keys & struct-slot accessors 03:37:03 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:37:08 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:37:19 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:38 lnostdal: thought about it, that's probably more of a change than necessary right now 03:37:43 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:38:16 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jsxwjhcuvbvlqkyr] has joined #lisp 03:38:18 besides, clisp is one of our targets, and it has notoriously slow CLOS :-P 03:38:21 Phoodus: you can use slot-value if you use classes 03:38:55 if someone uses clisp, they should expect bad performance 03:39:49 in any case, it 03:40:05 's seeming to be easier to declare this stuff before the struct is defined, with the defstruct being generated 03:41:36 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp071.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:43:57 angel [n=angel@221.223.132.193] has joined #lisp 03:45:08 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:46:57 Phoodus: but probably not as slow as ABCL? 03:49:03 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:49:23 angel pasted "function LEX env" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92174 03:49:45 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 03:49:49 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:49:51 can anybody tell me why the result is 3?? 03:52:26 looking at old benchmarks, ABCL is two orders of magnitude slower than CLISP on CLOS... hmmm 03:54:01 hjpark [n=user@jaram.hanyang.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 03:54:47 wakeup^ [n=wakeup@koln-5d81812b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:19 p_l: some stiuff its faster right? 03:59:41 ABCL is fastrer at some? 04:00:28 I think it had decent performance at quite a lot of stuff, it just really sucked at CLOS speed 04:03:31 -!- hjpark [n=user@jaram.hanyang.ac.kr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:04:34 http://logicmoo.ath.cx/manual/root/home/kifbot/ABCL_CLISP.html 04:04:58 -1 was a bug in ABCL 0.33 meant ABCL 3 times faster 04:05:13 kriyativ` [n=user@ip68-231-199-120.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:22 yeah the CLOS was way slower ;) 04:05:33 hmm.... much nicer results, I guess I had dated source 04:05:41 good to hear :) 04:05:51 -!- kriyativ` [n=user@ip68-231-199-120.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:06:20 well this was about a year ago.. i hope its still as fast 04:06:31 now, I wonder if I could have an application that can't run compiler at runtime with ABCL... 04:06:56 (especially if I could have it working with CLOS) 04:06:57 what do you plan to save be not providing a compiler? 04:07:08 dmiles: to run on Dalvik VM 04:07:25 oh.. whats interesting is the compiler works on .NET IKVM 04:07:56 well.. i feell you 04:08:23 techincally as long as ABCL doesnt go nuts and try to compile forms to bytecode i am happy 04:08:38 yes, but IKVM takes Java bytecode and recompiles it on the fly. Dalvik takes Java bytecode and compiles it to completely different architecture (.NET and JVM have similar design) without recompiler available during runtime 04:08:38 compiled to jvm bytecode is way overrated 04:08:54 yeah, but there's no compiler at runtime in Dalvik 04:09:33 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 04:09:46 oh i see.. yeah.. in my version of ABCL i emit .lcass files insead of .cls files.. then i use reflection to load tem. not JavaClassLoader 04:10:07 the goal is to let AOT compilation happen 04:10:08 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:34 i use reflection to load them = whatever API routines the VM provides 04:10:41 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:10:45 I just wonder how to get it working together with CLOS, as it seems PCL is dependant on compiler being available 04:10:45 so in IKVBM refelction loads the .dll 04:11:15 well here is the thing.. the only problem ABCL has its the define-method-combo-long-form\ 04:11:33 one defmacro would fix abcl to run clos 04:12:02 -!- wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d8190af.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:12:22 i wish i knew how to translate longfomr to shortform 04:12:40 if someone does.. then ABCL has no issues with clos anymore 04:13:03 i am about 91% sure this is all it is 04:13:36 there was a couple other issues about a year ago.. pico can confirm or deny.. but i think those issues are now fixed 04:13:46 pico/pise 04:13:48 pico/piso 04:14:19 so now that all the shortform bugs are fixed.. we just need a shortform to longform converter 04:14:23 -!- angel [n=angel@221.223.132.193] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:16:47 oh about the "compiler being needed" yeah that is kinda new ;( 04:17:20 tehcically i am not sure why it had to be done thru that gateway 04:17:34 it was optional.. but maybe was the coolest way to go 04:18:05 i think that can be fixed to not use the compiler again 04:18:44 i dont want to take on the challenge until someone writes a define-method-combination-long-form macro 04:19:19 but i am up to it.. but waiting until thats done 04:20:23 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:21:13 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:23:56 dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:07 Demosthenes [n=demo@host162.155.212.34.conversent.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:48 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:56 piso: the intial clos didnt need the compiler runtime right? 04:28:17 dmiles: I know that LispWorks can run without compiler available, but it loses some functionality (iirc connected with redefining in runtime) 04:28:37 -!- Demosthenex [n=demo@host162.155.212.34.conversent.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:30:59 ah.. so.. w/o a compiler you lose the ability to redefine? 04:31:22 funny almost sounds like it should be opposite 04:31:51 if you define at runtime.. you'd continue to be able to redefine. not locked into some impl 04:32:57 but its probably some maturity they made available to classes made in the compiler.. that hasnt made it to the interpred vbersion 04:35:31 dmiles: you could probably do it interpreted, but at least SBCL uses compiler (and LW apparently as well) 04:35:52 they probly get like a 100times speed boost 04:37:03 with abcl, i think the speed boost would not be so extreme .. it might be only 2-4 times 04:38:02 (larkc list only 4 times slower with interpreted struc vs compiled) 04:38:13 list/lisp 04:38:18 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:29 big deal for it when search is O^3 04:40:06 (not method search biut a user defined special search over a textual index) 04:42:39 (restated: the O^3 is some user code defined not part of the lisp impl) 04:42:44 So is closure-html the state of the art for parsing HTML in CL these days? 04:43:31 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-20-218.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:46:32 gigamonkey: afaik yes, unless you go FFI 04:46:48 FFI - Fishing For Implementation? 04:46:50 ;-0 04:46:52 *;-) 04:49:39 *gigamonkey* has to brush of his Social Security Administration name scraping code 04:57:17 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:58:50 gigamonkey: are some congratulations in order, then? 04:59:36 lpolzer__ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-249-255.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:33 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:06:54 -!- lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-203-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:07:36 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:07:36 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit 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[n=user@adsl-99-184-205-76.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:34 minion: logs 05:35:48 Is minion dead or am I talking to no one? 05:36:07 it's resting 05:36:17 pining for the fjords 05:36:36 That is an ex-bot! 05:36:38 i have elisp function for logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/09.12.15 05:37:21 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-89-14.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:21 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:21 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:21 shrughes [n=shrughes@c-65-96-172-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:21 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:37:21 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:21 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 05:37:21 cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:37:21 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has 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tvaalen [n=tvaal@209.9.227.203] has joined #lisp 05:37:34 rme: did you see my answer to your question before? 05:37:41 Anyway, it was yes. 05:37:54 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:12 -!- kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:39:25 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:41:14 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 lemo1nem [n=swoog@66.51.252.40] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.114.159.39] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 weirdo [n=sthalik@c156-35.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 jthing [n=jthing@88.159.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 reb [n=user@72.14.228.137] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has joined #lisp 05:41:44 minion: you alive? 05:42:00 clhs null 05:42:21 they're all dead 05:42:24 wgl: how about you? 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has joined #lisp 05:43:29 moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 05:43:29 antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:29 p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:29 yacin [n=yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 05:43:29 zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 05:43:29 j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #lisp 05:43:29 Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:29 Aisling [i=ash@24.89.251.92] has joined #lisp 05:43:29 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:29 Draggor [n=Draggor@216.80.120.145] has joined #lisp 05:43:29 Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:29 tvaalen [n=tvaal@209.9.227.203] has joined #lisp 05:44:22 *fusss* is struggling with accounting lingo in various texts and this http://darcs.informatimago.com/lisp/common-lisp/invoice.lisp 05:44:55 is there a definitive text on algorithmic accounting anywhere? something written after 1950 and not in cobol? 05:45:24 what's up? 05:45:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_null.htm 05:45:32 fusss: I forget what it was I was doing but I was trying to get a grip on accounting terminology and it was a @#$%$# nightmare. 05:45:55 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 05:45:57 All the tutorials I could find were useless. 05:46:55 gigamonkey: it's a nightmare. we have a service where clients can put money in their accounts and withdraw when they want. their money is converted to "points" to purchase various service addons, and let me tell you, the "business rules" is utterly impeneterable. 05:47:35 ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:58 cmm-_ [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:00 Ah, I remember, I was trying to grok 'debits' vs 'credits' in double entry bookkeeping and I kept coming across definitions like, "a debit is an account you put on the left side of a T ledger and a credit is one you put on the right." 05:48:25 yes! gaah 05:49:52 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:52:16 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:52:16 -!- antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:52:16 -!- piso [n=peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:52:16 -!- guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:52:16 -!- kuwabara1 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:52:16 -!- krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:52:16 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host188.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:52:16 -!- bfein_ [n=bfein@pool-74-104-157-229.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:52:16 -!- mgr 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05:53:11 haha 05:53:33 and debits are actually increases of cash balances 05:54:08 fusss: I'm afraid you will encounter mostly Java 05:54:50 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:55:00 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-89-14.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:00 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:00 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:00 shrughes [n=shrughes@c-65-96-172-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:00 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:00 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:00 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 05:55:00 cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:00 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 05:55:00 reid08` 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[n=tvaal@209.9.227.203] has joined #lisp 05:55:13 -!- _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c156-35.icpnet.pl] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- jthing [n=jthing@88.159.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- reb [n=user@72.14.228.137] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.114.159.39] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- lemo1nem [n=swoog@66.51.252.40] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:13 -!- chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:16 if you're lucky, smalltalk, ocaml, sometimes haskell, maybe even CL. In no certain order (and with a side of C++ for "performance") 05:55:58 didn't they use accounting as intro examples in beginning programming texts? I remember doing some in pascal 05:56:30 lemo1nem [n=swoog@66.51.252.40] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.114.159.39] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 weirdo [n=sthalik@c156-35.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 jthing [n=jthing@88.159.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 reb [n=user@72.14.228.137] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:30 chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has joined #lisp 05:56:49 pjb seems good at it, but his code seems to be written in french law 05:56:56 fusss: it's an overused example in OOP 05:57:07 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- piso [n=peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- kuwabara1 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host188.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- bfein_ [n=bfein@pool-74-104-157-229.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 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[simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:07 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:08 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:57:25 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:37 for pure accounting you can get something in C (gnucash) and I think Python 05:57:47 there's also CL ledger 05:57:53 -!- ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:58:47 I think I am getting more mileage when I google for "formulas" instead of "algorithms" 05:59:17 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:59:31 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-89-14.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:31 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:31 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:31 shrughes [n=shrughes@c-65-96-172-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:31 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:31 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:31 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 05:59:31 cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:31 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 05:59:31 reid08` 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[n=tvaal@209.9.227.203] has joined #lisp 05:59:37 Anyone here have opinions about when to use the Kendall tau rank correlation coefficient vs. Spearman's rank correlation coefficient? 06:01:05 -!- shrughes [n=shrughes@c-65-96-172-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:02:10 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:02:10 -!- antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:02:10 -!- piso [n=peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:02:10 -!- guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:02:10 -!- kuwabara1 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:02:10 -!- krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:02:10 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host188.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has quit [simmons.freenode.net 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[n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:16:05 -!- cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:17:17 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-205-76.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:17:36 cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 06:20:11 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:20:44 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:20:48 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 06:21:09 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066156.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 06:23:32 longkid [n=lisp@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 06:24:28 amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:36 That, and not being able to spell three letter words, do seem to make you look kind of retarded. 06:31:59 longkid1 [n=lisp@113.161.70.110] has joined #lisp 06:32:58 -!- cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 06:33:19 beach: hello 06:34:24 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:34:30 Oops. 06:36:28 Good morning. 06:36:35 Hello longkid1 06:36:38 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 06:36:51 beach: how are you today? 06:37:08 longkid1: Fine thank you. what about yourself? 06:37:45 beach: I'm fine. I want to ask you something. 06:38:36 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:42 Sure, go right ahead. 06:43:11 -!- rrice [n=rrice@adsl-99-51-210-129.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:44:09 -!- Madsy [n=madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit ["leaving"] 06:45:13 Reaver [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 06:45:38 beach: with definition of cell, unit and board, I don't know how to combine those classes 06:46:59 beach: i mean that the board class contains a set of cells or a set of symbol (just an array of 9x9)? 06:47:32 both 06:48:12 beach: the reason that I ask that question is 06:49:14 after use 'shuffle-board' function, I don't know how to initialize a board instance 06:49:28 TuxPurple_ [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 06:49:38 longkid1: you would generate the set of units from the array of cells. 06:51:05 beach: i mean that the board instance contains a set of cell instances or a set of symbols? 06:51:31 with a set of symbols, i can initialize a board easily 06:51:48 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:52:02 -!- longkid [n=lisp@113.161.70.106] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:52:11 beach: but with a set of cell instances, i don't know how to initialize a board instance 06:53:41 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:53:49 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:54:04 longkid1: The board contains three things actually, a vector of size N² that maps small numbers to symbols, an array of size N²xN² of cells, and a list of 3N² units of cells. 06:54:58 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:55:00 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:56:33 beach: in your explanation, cells refer to cell instances of cell class. Right? 06:56:40 Yes. 06:58:24 QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 06:59:26 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 07:00:01 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:05 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066156.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:00:43 beach: (make-instance 'board :cells (make-array '(N² N²) :element-type 'cell)) 07:00:49 beach: right? 07:01:18 longkid1: No need to specify the element type really. 07:02:03 it can be useful for documentation, but it won't mean anything to the compiler, usually 07:02:44 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:44 longkid1: And then from there, you need to generate the cells and the units. 07:02:47 basically the only types that matter as array elements are numeric or character ones, since the storage can be optimized a bit for that 07:03:02 QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 07:03:45 beach: so, in lisp, is it equivalent to initializing an array of objects in Java? 07:03:50 *stassats* is trying to debug mcclim 07:03:52 HG` [n=HG@xdslen100.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:04:35 longkid1: Pretty much. In Lisp, all values can be thought of as references to objects. 07:04:43 kwinz3 [i=kwinz@213142103192.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 07:05:15 djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:56 beach: Actually, I cannot imagine how to do after shuffling a board, how to deal with those classes. 07:07:24 longkid1: What does your shuffled board contain? Just small numbers as I recall, right? 07:07:24 QinGW3 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 07:07:42 beach: yes 07:09:16 longkid1: OK, so the new array will contain cells, and initially, they contain a solved board, which is equivalent to each cell containing a singleton set with the value of your shuffled board. 07:09:49 longkid1: "erasing" a symbol, is the same thing as replacing the singleton set with a set that contains all possible symbols. 07:09:57 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:10:30 -!- amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:11:06 -!- spec[away] [n=Spec@89.74.179.78] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:11:13 -!- QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:11:24 beach: ok. i see. After shuffling the board, i'll create an array containing cell instances 07:12:14 longkid1: Yes, and the set of units containing the cell instances you just created. 07:12:56 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:13:16 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@c-67-188-116-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:13:21 ok, so I have to create N²xN² cells and 3 N² units. Right? 07:13:53 Right. 07:13:59 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:14:10 -!- rme [rme@clozure-C26E879D.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 07:14:10 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-89-14.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:14:30 beach: those things will be done in shuffle-board function or in other function? 07:14:55 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:15:02 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:15:09 longkid1: probably in a different function. 07:16:32 beach: about the board class, I have to create a board instance to hold those values (N²xN² cells and 3N² units). Right? 07:16:49 nicdev [n=nicdev@st401-35.subnet-243.amherst.edu] has joined #lisp 07:17:06 Yes. 07:17:59 after creating that board instance, i have to assign value to N²xN² cells and 3N² units. Right? 07:19:09 beach: before assigning value, do i have to create instances of N²xN² cells and 3N² units? 07:19:09 Right. 07:19:21 ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-9-66.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 07:19:30 Yes. 07:20:22 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:43 In a nested loop, create the N²xN² cells first. Then, in three different loops, first create units corresponding to rows, then to columns, then to small squares. 07:21:16 OK. So it is the same to Java. Before assigning value to elements of an array of objects, we have to 'new' those elements 07:22:02 longkid1: Use make-instance 07:22:09 -!- TuxPurple_ is now known as TuxPurple 07:22:46 beach: and after use accessor function to assign values. Right? 07:23:15 Yes. In this case (setf (aref board i j) (make-instance 'cell ...)) 07:24:33 beach: please explain the above statement 07:25:24 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslen100.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 07:25:56 longkid1: Actually, it probably should be (setf (aref (array board) i j) (make-instance 'cell ...)) 07:26:21 Just write an accessor like (tile board i j) 07:26:27 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:26:45 longkid1: In a nested loop where the outer loops over i and the inner over j, you assign to a particular array element of the array, and what you assign to it, is the new cell that you just created. 07:27:36 beach: could you please write the definition of board class? i want to see the slots that it contains. 07:27:48 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:57 longkid1: Sure, hold on... 07:28:54 testii [n=user@121.233.99.140] has joined #lisp 07:30:51 -!- testii [n=user@121.233.99.140] has quit [Client Quit] 07:32:15 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:34:54 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:35:10 beach pasted "For longkid1" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92179 07:36:06 longkid [n=lisp@113.161.70.106] has joined #lisp 07:36:48 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:30 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:43:31 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:44:40 -!- cmm-_ [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:47:33 longkid2 [n=lisp@113.161.70.110] has joined #lisp 07:50:25 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:51:51 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:53:12 -!- longkid1 [n=lisp@113.161.70.110] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:54:00 -!- longkid2 [n=lisp@113.161.70.110] has left #lisp 07:54:28 longkid2 [n=lisp@113.161.70.110] has joined #lisp 07:57:38 gonzojive_ [n=red@c-67-188-116-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:43 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:49 -!- longkid [n=lisp@113.161.70.106] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:03:15 -!- kwinz3 [i=kwinz@213142103192.public.telering.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:04:23 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:05:43 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:05:59 good morning 08:07:00 seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:04 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 08:11:33 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:13:23 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 08:13:24 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:15:01 beach: hello 08:15:11 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:15:41 -!- ineiros_ [n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit ["leaving"] 08:15:57 ineiros [n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 08:20:28 longkid2: I am still here, but I need to leave for work. 08:20:33 Hello mvilleneuve 08:20:33 -!- addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:20:55 longkid2: Go ahead if you have a quick question. 08:21:01 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 08:22:55 ok, maybe i'll ask you later. Thanks a lot. 08:23:12 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 08:23:13 longkid2: Sure, no problem. 08:23:26 -!- longkid2 [n=lisp@113.161.70.110] has left #lisp 08:23:56 morning 08:24:20 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e194-052.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 08:24:30 addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:41 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 08:26:20 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 08:27:06 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:32:19 Kolyan [n=nartamon@93-81-157-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:34:41 -!- addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 08:34:52 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has joined #lisp 08:38:42 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:38:58 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 08:39:12 george [n=george@189.107.166.115] has joined #lisp 08:40:41 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:43 -!- QinGW3 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:45:13 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:46:44 morning Krystof. How was the feedback for sbcl10? 08:52:38 redblue [i=star@ppp024.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 08:53:05 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:55:31 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:57:20 addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:27 -!- konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:00:34 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:01:47 tcr: haven't had any yet :-) but I enjoyed myself 09:02:04 I'm slightly disappointed no-one was livetweeting 09:02:10 (but only slightly) 09:03:34 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:03:42 I hope some will blog at least. :-) 09:04:20 (If sbcl10 was a month earlier, it could have saved jsnell from being cut from planet.lisp!) 09:07:08 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:08:27 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06fb90.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:30 good morning 09:10:25 xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:54 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 09:11:49 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:12:01 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:13:30 tcr: we did mention that :-) 09:13:34 *Krystof* goes to work 09:19:37 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 09:19:37 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:19:42 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:39 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 09:21:36 -!- proq [n=user@71.20.201.84] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:22:07 pavelludiq [i=c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/session] has joined #lisp 09:22:39 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:25:02 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 09:25:13 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f7560d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:03 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-9-66.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:30:23 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 09:31:08 ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-9-66.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:31:11 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:33:03 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-9-66.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:39:43 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 09:39:49 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:39:51 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 09:40:54 Good morning! 09:41:42 kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 09:42:08 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e194-052.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:46:01 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:11 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 09:47:39 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:51:21 maus [n=maus@222.253.111.58] has joined #lisp 09:51:22 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:51:44 Good afternoon! 09:55:52 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:56:07 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:57:02 hello maus 09:57:07 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:57:37 Is there a standard idiom for removing uniques from a list? 09:58:09 I suppose a hash-table would be the best way to implement this.. 09:58:10 hello spiaggia :) 09:58:11 removing duplicates you mean? 09:58:22 clhs remove-duplicates 09:58:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_dup.htm 09:58:26 hello 09:58:32 hell kami 09:58:45 what the hell, kami :) 09:59:38 s//o/ 10:00:20 somebody mentioned here an implementation which runs on a phone 10:01:05 I think it was ecl. Does somebody have pointers to how to install/run it on a Nokia E71? 10:01:06 kami, maybe this? http://funcall.posterous.com/ecl-on-iphone-redux 10:01:50 not sure how helpful that is for a different hardware 10:01:52 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:02:01 Adlai: thanks, that's nice. I have to learn to use the right terminology :) 10:02:03 Adlai: thanks. I hoped it was a Nokia 10:02:26 kami, unfortunately, it seems that the little white widgets are all the rage nowadays 10:02:30 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:02:51 brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:04:19 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 10:04:37 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has left #lisp 10:06:10 spiaggia: You are at the university now? You have classes today? Have you had lunch yet? 10:06:27 Yes, no, and no. :) 10:06:38 :) 10:06:46 I am having some instant noodles right now, 'cause it's so damn cold here. 10:07:01 And I turned the heat off in my office yesterday. 10:07:16 It is 11:00 and it is -2°C. :( 10:08:58 spiaggia: ah, cold winter and hot instant noodle is really tasty :) 10:09:28 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:09:38 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has joined #lisp 10:09:58 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 10:10:04 is there documentation in the MOP spec of what is a suitable "location" argument to #'standard-instance-access or #'funcallable-standard-instance-access ? 10:10:14 (if so, where?) 10:10:33 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 10:11:00 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has left #lisp 10:14:26 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:14:43 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has joined #lisp 10:15:05 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:15:35 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:18:16 maus: What are you up to today? 10:22:12 -!- pavelludiq [i=c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-bxrhgduxaxocvpem] has quit ["Page closed"] 10:23:58 spiaggia: I've just taken a nap :) and now thinking of sudoku board :) 10:23:58 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:24:19 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:26:07 spiaggia: vng discussed with me about things you told him last time, and we still thinking of.. 10:26:27 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 10:27:25 spiaggia: can you explain one more time? we are a little bit not clear! 10:29:39 maus: I can't remember what the discussion was about. Can you remind me? 10:31:52 spiaggia: it's about the inputting bar, how to click and change the values which is displayed on the board. 10:34:00 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-38-130.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:35:56 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e194-052.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:36:03 I suggest you display all the symbols above the board, using a presentation type (say sudoku-symbol). When klicking on one of those symbols, it assigns that symbol to the currently selected cell. You select the current cell by clicking on it. 10:36:42 anyone know where I can find examples of clim/mcclim programs (source) -- I am trying to compare garnet/ltk/clim etc. 10:37:04 nunb: mcclim/Examples 10:38:05 mcclim.cliki.net is what I'm looking at now, but I wanted to see big programs so I could get a really good sense of structure etc. 10:38:22 *nunb* was inspired by the recent mn-lispers video 10:39:11 stassats: will check it out, thanks. 10:39:29 spiaggia: thank you, I got it! 10:39:40 mcclim/Apps/{Listener,Scigraph} also 10:40:44 nunb: In the mcclim distribution, in the manual, and in the Examples and Apps subdirectories. 10:41:10 nunb: Also check out Climacs and Gsharp for some bigger examples. 10:41:15 ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:41:25 minion: Tell nunb about Climacs 10:41:26 nunb: please look at Climacs: Climacs is an Emacs-like text editor written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/Climacs 10:41:31 minion: Tell nunb about Gsharp 10:41:31 nunb: look at Gsharp: Gsharp is a graphical, interactive score editing application for standard Music notation. http://www.cliki.net/Gsharp 10:41:39 spiaggia: yes, I guess Climacs would have the best 'in-the-large' example 10:42:10 any mcclim screencasts out there? 10:42:13 nunb: Could be. There is also Stamp, an embryonic email reader. 10:42:34 nunb: Not mcclim, but Clim, yes. By lispm I think. 10:42:50 most of climacs is implemented by Drei (if i'm not mistaking the name) 10:43:39 spiaggia: thanks! found the lispm 'cast. 10:44:13 -!- ironChicken [n=nnnricha@mx.lurk.org] has quit ["Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5"] 10:44:36 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["leaving"] 10:45:22 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:33 stassats: Yes, that's true. 10:46:18 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:47:15 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:38 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e194-052.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:00:47 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jsxwjhcuvbvlqkyr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:03:24 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vfpihxqcqmubesug] has joined #lisp 11:04:34 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:59 kami` [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 11:08:42 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32BF70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:42 Harag [n=Harag@wbs-196-2-103-240.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:13:54 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066158.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 11:15:52 should (let ((*default-pathname-defaults* #P"/foo/")) (compile-file-pathname "foo.lisp")) return "/foo/foo.fas" or am i reading clhs compile-file-pathname wrong? 11:17:22 that and (compile-file-pathname "foo.lisp" :output-file "/foo/") work differently on different implementations 11:19:09 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:20:32 -!- kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:20:43 Harag pasted "HYunchentoot Recursive Function" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92188 11:20:56 -Y 11:23:24 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 11:25:38 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 11:25:53 a-s` [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 11:26:23 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066158.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:33:09 Harag: that was your question? 11:33:16 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:33:24 yes 11:33:36 the question is in the paste 11:34:01 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:34:01 Harag: In the first invocation of the function, what do you think happens after the first recursive call? 11:34:02 Geralt1 [n=Geralt@p5B32BDC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:20 -!- Geralt1 is now known as Geralt 11:34:44 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-87-237.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 11:35:06 Harag: I.e. you want the STR form to be in the else clause of the IF. 11:35:56 Harag: as it is, the STR (of the outermost call) will get returned, regardless of what the IF form does. 11:36:12 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:36:30 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 11:36:35 frodef: if I put it in the else I get no output to the page 11:37:10 the if is just there to get it to at least 10 recursions 11:37:53 Harag: ah, yes, it's an indentation/display problem, sorry. 11:38:09 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:32 then only thing I can think of is that the *standard-output* gets cleared on each with-html-output-to-string 11:39:09 or something like that 11:39:35 <_3b> try with-html-output in the recursive function 11:40:21 <_3b> or else accumulate the string returned by recursive-test if you want it to return a string 11:41:00 _3b: if I use with-html-output I still only get Recursive count- 0 11:41:50 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 11:41:55 <_3b> in recursive-test? 11:42:03 Harag: for the one you pasted, you'll only get 0 since the format isn't in the else clause. 11:42:36 _3b: oops no if I put it there I get everything 11:43:03 The one you posted, however, you still get the same? 11:43:08 in reverse order as expected 11:43:19 <_3b> w-h-o-to-string returns a string with everything printed to it, but you ignore the return value on the recursive calls 11:44:24 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 11:44:41 <_3b> and each nested call to w-h-o-to-string binds *standard-output* to a new string stream, so the body doesn't affect the outer calls 11:45:27 <_3b> Harag: also, (strr (format nil ...)) -> (fmt ...) 11:46:05 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d90-129-209-54.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 11:46:14 <_3b> and i think for use in hunchentoot, you can use with-html-output for the outer call also 11:47:30 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:47:52 _3b: why would one then use w-h-o-to-string ? 11:48:36 to delay output? 11:49:12 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:49:32 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:19 *_3b* doesn't really do that much web stuff, so doesn't really know that sort of thing :) 11:51:46 well thanx guys for the help 11:53:32 -!- Dodek [i=dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:53:59 Recursive count- 10Recursive count- 9Recursive count- 8Recursive count- 7Recursive count- 6Recursive count- 5Recursive count- 4Recursive count- 3Recursive count- 2Recursive count- 1Recursive count- 0Recursive count- 0 11:54:13 Now I have 2 Recursive count- 0 11:54:31 what am I missing about recursion in lisp ? 11:54:38 <_3b> right, you still return it from the outer call 11:54:41 Dodek [i=dodek@dodecki.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:03 <_3b> and then add it to the output with str in the calling function 11:55:06 aaak 11:55:15 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E3DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:16 what is rendering it to the output twice...I removed the str in the page so I thought that would stop it from rendering that return value 12:03:13 -!- Dodek [i=dodek@dodecki.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:03:27 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:03:37 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 12:04:04 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 12:04:32 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vfpihxqcqmubesug] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:06:23 DamienCassou [n=cassou@pdpc/supporter/active/damiencassou] has joined #lisp 12:06:30 hi 12:07:00 I use clbuild and have the same problem as http://paste.lisp.org/display/82396#2 12:07:24 namely: when I execute ./clbuild slime, I get Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "Key sequence C-c C-s starts with non-prefix key C-c") 12:07:32 can somebody help me please? 12:11:36 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:50 if you do not get a backtrace of the actual error (in Emacs), you should try to change clbuild.conf to start `emacs --debug-init` 12:13:28 but you do get a backtrace :) 12:14:53 Harag annotated #92188 "correct" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92188#1 12:15:48 <_3b> DamienCassou: maybe try ./clbuild slime -q 12:16:12 same thing 12:16:43 _3b: however, with '--no-site-file', it works ok 12:17:21 <_3b> if you ever installed slime from apt packages, you might try purging that 12:18:00 Loading /net/cremi/dacassou/Documents/clbuild/source/slime/slime.el (source)...done 12:18:00 slime-c-p-c-init: Key sequence C-c C-s starts with non-prefix key C-c 12:18:01 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:36 there are a bunch of slime files on the system, but I'm not root 12:19:02 /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50slime.el 12:19:16 _3b is it possible to avoid loading just that one? 12:19:53 <_3b> don't know 12:20:04 <_3b> possibly you could skip the site init and load the rest by hand or something 12:20:15 -!- Harag [n=Harag@wbs-196-2-103-240.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:20:31 DamienCassou: Purge your debian package of slime, and possibly cl-swank 12:20:51 tcr: I'm not root on the system, it is in a school 12:21:13 reboot with init=/bin/bash 12:21:51 stassats: I can't reboot too, it's a server :-D 12:22:19 DamienCassou: Do not put (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) into your .emacs, but manually specify a list of contribs which excludes slime-c-p-c 12:23:11 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:23:43 DamienCassou: Better of course is that you talk to the admin of that machine. 12:24:18 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d90-129-209-54.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:24:27 ok, thanks to both of you 12:24:49 I will try to contact the admin first and then try to hack if I can't find anything else 12:25:10 Remind him to purge the packages 12:25:12 not just remove 12:25:20 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:25:24 thank you 12:25:25 Harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-8-188.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:25:31 jvj [n=user@h69-21-136-143.mdsnwi.tisp.static.tds.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:02 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 12:27:24 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Boot me gently"] 12:28:02 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:29:12 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:37 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:36:32 l_n [n=shawn@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has joined #lisp 12:36:42 -!- l_n [n=shawn@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has quit ["leaving"] 12:36:47 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e194-052.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:38:41 jewel 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[n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:00:50 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-82-106.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:01:03 mornin lisp 13:01:08 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-145-39.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:01:21 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@host162.155.212.34.conversent.net] has quit ["leaving"] 13:02:18 kwinz3 [i=kwinz@213142122229.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 13:03:51 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 13:05:43 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:08:29 Jasko [n=tjasko@174.59.195.12] has joined #lisp 13:10:23 -!- jvj [n=user@h69-21-136-143.mdsnwi.tisp.static.tds.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:11:47 Hun [n=hun@80.153.55.38] has joined #lisp 13:13:38 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:15:48 hello holycow 13:16:01 stassats: Thanks for the fix. 13:16:30 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229120229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:19:01 DamienCassou: I had that problem the other day when I installed SLIME on the ENSEIRB machines, but I can't remember what it was. 13:21:31 spiaggia: Hi spiaggia. Do I know you? I'm also from Bordeaux 13:22:01 -!- drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:23:26 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@211.25.207.6] has quit ["to the infidels -- death!"] 13:24:43 DamienCassou: spiaggia is the translation into Italian of the Swedish word `strand'. 13:25:07 spiaggia: we probably already met then :-) 13:25:14 I think so, yes. :) 13:26:08 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-82-106.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 13:28:10 ruepel0r [n=rue@p4FCE06D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:28:28 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-30-237-206.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:28:29 spiaggia: compiling all the packages with the cremi's sbcl results in some fatal ERROR conditions 13:29:04 -!- kwinz3 [i=kwinz@213142122229.public.telering.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:30:08 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-27-138-90.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:33:39 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 13:37:26 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 13:39:30 What's the version of their SBCL? 13:40:04 1.0.15 13:40:29 Hmm, yes, that's a bit old-ish. We should ask them to install a newer version. 13:41:46 DamienCassou: You could install SBCL in your own directory and try using it to compile. 13:41:52 *Xach* uses 1.0.6 for his wigflip activities 13:42:47 spiaggia: should I try installing sbcl with clbuild ? 13:43:23 dlowe [n=dlowe@63.107.91.99] has joined #lisp 13:43:35 DamienCassou: I haven't done that in the past. I just downloaded the binary and followed the instructions for installing in your own directory. 13:44:02 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@75.36.223.113] has joined #lisp 13:44:38 spiaggia: Irène probably asked CREMI's admins to update sbcl 13:47:37 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-101.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:47:39 Xach: hah, even dan_b is more up to date than that 13:49:13 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-27-138-90.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- ruepel0r [n=rue@p4FCE06D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- Harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-8-188.iburst.co.za] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-24-233.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- fawxtin` [n=user@150.162.165.254] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-101.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- pok [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- rbancroft [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- StanleyD [i=dal@horinek.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- manituuuu [n=as@orwell.fiit.stuba.sk] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- koollman [n=samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- Bucciarati [n=buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-168-140.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A7666.versanet.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@adsl-76-235-169-202.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- esden [n=esdentem@repl.esden.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:49:13 psyche! it's actually 1.0.6.37. 13:49:14 practically 1.0.7! 13:50:15 udzinari` [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-27-138-90.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 Harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-8-188.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-24-233.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 fawxtin` [n=user@150.162.165.254] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 manituuuu [n=as@orwell.fiit.stuba.sk] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 pok [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 benny [n=benny@i577A7666.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 StanleyD [i=dal@horinek.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 rbancroft [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 koollman [n=samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-168-140.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 retupmoca [n=retupmoc@adsl-76-235-169-202.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 Bucciarati [n=buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 esden [n=esdentem@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 13:50:17 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:50:41 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:50:46 Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@130.34.188.206] has joined #lisp 13:51:09 morphling_ [n=stefan@gssn-5f7560d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:21 DamienCassou: Ah, that's possible. 13:52:38 -!- Reaver [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:53:08 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@75.36.223.113] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:53:24 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 13:54:20 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:56:28 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:56:29 spiaggia: I have a "version mismatch error" when I load slime in emacs 13:56:42 gonzojive_ [n=red@adsl-76-204-77-57.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:49 hello lispers 13:57:20 I've a small question about sbcl performances compared to java 13:58:10 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:59:21 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:00:25 kiuma pasted "sbcl vs java performances" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92204 14:01:22 this is a big surprise for me. Could anyone justify it ? (for curiosity and to kill the time) :) 14:01:47 <_3b> well, you specified types for java and not sbcl for one thing 14:02:10 DamienCassou: Between what and whatelse? 14:02:39 kiuma: I'd be curious to see what happens if you do the same integer types and overflow behavior. 14:02:42 um would the addition of a list type which is simply and extra type that holds the standard cons list allow most of the issues with cons lists to be fixed? 14:03:00 OmniMancer: which issue did you have in mind? 14:03:18 stuff like being unable to delete the first element without using macros 14:03:18 spiaggia: don't know :-). it's the message which appears when I launch slime. Version mismatch: "2008-07-19" vs. "2009-12-16". Continue? (y or n) 14:03:30 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e194-052.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 14:03:40 being able to tell what is actually a list and what isn't? 14:04:03 OmniMancer: I think experienced people use the right data structure for the job, rather than use lists everywhere and curse their problems. 14:04:31 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-27-138-90.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Success] 14:04:56 Xach, I know about the overflow problem, mine was just a curiosity about performances 14:05:26 _3b, thank you. I try to specify types now 14:05:38 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:05:39 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:09 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-67-107.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:06:11 kiuma: the "overflow problem" is intimiately connected with performance 14:06:11 kiuma: it's important because in your example, lisp will check for overflow all the time and java will not. 14:06:22 you can't just dismiss it by saying "oh I know about that, but what about _performance_" 14:07:19 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:20 DamienCassou: It sounds like you are getting some stuff from one version and some other stuff from another version of SLIME. 14:07:23 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f7560d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:07:25 Xach, Xof thank you a lot I'm beginnning to understand 14:08:05 spiaggia: that's my opinion too. However, I removed all stuffs in ~/.slime 14:09:07 Xach: I understand you should use more than just lists but there are some problems with them that could be fixed. 14:09:12 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 14:09:15 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:10:07 OmniMancer: lisp lists are plain old singly-linked data structures. if you need more than that, you can augment them or use something more appropriate. sometimes a singly-linked list is just what you need. 14:10:16 TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:17 DamienCassou: did you remove your system-wide slime installation? 14:10:41 -!- morphling_ is now known as morphling 14:11:18 stassats: I can't do that, I'm on a server. I'm trying to use their slime 14:11:33 DamienCassou: that's why you are getting this message 14:11:57 stassats: ?? 14:12:10 !! 14:13:31 <_3b> DamienCassou: you need to use system swank if you use system slime 14:13:59 Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:14:05 Xach, I know that optimization are well described in PAIP, but is there a link to do all tuning I'd like to play with ? 14:14:11 _3b: ok, how do I do that? 14:14:11 *_3b* phrased that poorly, you need to use swank and slime from the same source 14:14:51 c|mell [n=cmell@211.25.207.6] has joined #lisp 14:14:52 the only line I have in my .emacs is (setq inferior-lisp-program ...) 14:15:09 the rest is configured automatically by /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50slime.el 14:15:12 <_3b> do you start emacs directly? 14:15:33 I start emacs without using clbuild if that's your question 14:17:46 <_3b> in emacs, what does M-: slime-protocol-version say? 14:19:49 _3b: sorry, I'm trying something right now and I can't launch emacs. If I have the same problem again I will come back to you 14:19:57 _3b: thank you for your help 14:20:17 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:22:43 myrkraverk` [n=johann@85.220.127.30] has joined #lisp 14:23:20 rrice [n=rrice@99.51.210.129] has joined #lisp 14:25:04 Still no bloggage. 14:25:59 yeah, I hope the sbcl10 participants had fun (: 14:26:17 -!- Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:27:58 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:28:16 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 14:28:22 I ate them all 14:28:31 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.70.219] has joined #lisp 14:30:29 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:31:22 _3b: spiaggia: slime is a dependency of mcclim... 14:32:11 _3b: spiaggia: which makes clbuild install slime automatically when I install mcclim 14:34:24 Xof [n=crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:34:45 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:35:16 <_deepfire> Will there be proceedings for sbcl10, in some form? 14:35:29 kiuma: how dös this compare? 14:35:32 DamienCassou: how does it "install" slime, exactly? 14:35:33 Xantoz pasted "fib, types declared" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92206 14:35:45 it builds it, but that should be it 14:37:05 cmm: when you do "./clbuild install mcclim", you can see in the trace that slime is a dependency and that it is going to be installed by using cvs 14:37:14 cmm: don't know how clbuild works 14:37:39 kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@e194-052.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 14:37:41 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e194-052.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:37:49 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633909.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:37:59 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c156-35.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:38:08 Xantoz: What do you think you'll gain by that? 14:38:10 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:39:05 DamienCassou: some part of mcclim (climacs, probably) needs swank (the lisp-side half of slime). so presumably this dependency can be easily hacked around 14:39:20 :-( 14:41:30 tcr: well, more speed, less generality 14:41:30 there might be audio recordings of sbcl10 speakers / lightnings 14:41:52 fiveop_ [n=fiveop@e179168223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:41:57 tcr: was thinking it would be a better comparison with java 14:42:08 _deepfire: beyond blog posts, no 14:44:49 the participants might want to include relevant meeting tidbits in sbcl commit messages :) 14:45:00 -!- lemo1nem is now known as lemoinem 14:45:30 -!- lemoinem is now known as Guest78928 14:46:10 -!- Guest78928 is now known as lemoinem 14:47:50 Xof_ [n=crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:48:22 -!- Xof_ [n=crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 14:49:19 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-67-107.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:50:41 -!- Xof [n=crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:50:46 Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 14:51:06 -!- Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:51:55 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@211.25.207.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:51:59 Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 14:55:20 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229120229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:55:39 _3b: slime keeps creating ".slime/fasl/2008-07-19/*". Where does this come from? 14:56:27 <_3b> that is just compiled versions of the swank code, it should be OK 14:56:30 benny` [n=benny@i577A166F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:56:48 _3b: slime-protocol-version is 2008-07-19 14:56:55 seems like a match 14:57:07 Error while loading: /net/cremi/dacassou/.slime/fasl/2008-07-19/sbcl-1.0.33-linux-x86/contrib/swank-presentation-streams.fasl 14:57:07 ;; Condition: Lock on package SB-IMPL violated when interning INDENTING-STREAM. 14:57:13 Xantoz, I don't understand, what are you referring to ? 14:57:14 that's when I run slime 14:57:25 DamienCassou: it's too old for your sbcl 14:57:50 stassats: ahhhhh. I'm tired :-) 14:57:50 kiuma: the fib cl/java comparison 14:58:05 DamienCassou: why not run emacs with --no-site-file and use your slime? 14:58:07 stassats: so I will ask my admin to remove it or to update it 14:58:12 kiuma: i pasted a few lines below 14:58:30 kiuma: 15:35:33 < lisppaste> Xantoz pasted "fib, types declared" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92206 14:58:40 stassats: because this command deactivate everything, not just slime. don't you agree? 14:58:40 -!- chiiph [n=chiiph@190.1.21.180] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6.3"] 14:58:52 -!- kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@e194-052.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:58:52 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:58:52 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:58:52 -!- antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:58:52 -!- piso 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[simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:58:52 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:58:52 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:58:52 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:58:52 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:58:52 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:59:23 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-145-39.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:59:38 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 15:00:13 DamienCassou: it does? 15:01:11 -!- _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:01:11 -!- jthing [n=jthing@88.159.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 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15:01:11 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:01:11 -!- chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:01:32 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:35 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:02:37 stassats: I suppose because files in /etc/emacs/site-start.d won't be loaded anymore 15:02:54 do you want them to be loaded? 15:03:56 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp024.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Success] 15:04:18 stassats: I don't really care but I guess some might be important 15:04:46 p8m [n=dmm@208.70.147.65] has joined #lisp 15:04:51 you probably want auctex, for example 15:04:54 DamienCassou: well, you can look and see and load them manually if you want 15:05:20 I'm tired :-) 15:08:01 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:08:01 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:01 Fare 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15:09:06 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.252.40] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.114.159.39] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 jthing [n=jthing@88.159.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 reb [n=user@72.14.228.137] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has joined #lisp 15:09:28 anyway, for the common lisp vs java performance above I've tried with the tail recursive version of fibonacci of 140000 15:09:41 Common Lisp : 0.010 sec 15:09:43 Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@guestlaptop-18.cis.uoguelph.ca] has joined #lisp 15:09:47 Java: .... 15:09:57 ... 15:10:02 java.lang.StackOverflowError :) 15:10:35 doesn't sound like tail-recursive 15:11:28 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A7666.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:11:29 i mean tail call optimized, so it's not fair 15:14:12 kiuma: dösn't the java compiler do tail call optimization? 15:14:18 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:14:20 ah, stupid script hitting me again 15:15:38 kenanbolukbasi [n=Kenan@88.238.43.16] has joined #lisp 15:19:23 Xantoz, clojure does, java doesn't 15:20:43 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:52 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has left #lisp 15:23:30 kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@d90-129-209-54.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 15:23:34 i'm wondering, what kind of representation would suit i you need to represent a building which has nodes eg. rooms (more generally, spaces), elevations, entrances, gardens (again, more generally, open spaces), load-bearing partitions, doors (connections between spaces), etc. 15:23:40 kiuma annotated #92204 "tail recursive version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92204#1 15:23:50 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit ["leaving"] 15:24:05 that "i" should be "if", sorry 15:24:42 <_3b> kenanbolukbasi: probably depends on what you want to do with it... maybe a bsp or something for rendering, generic graph for pathfinding, etc 15:25:58 kiuma: ah 15:26:12 _3b: sorry if it sound too silly to answer, but what is bsp? 15:26:23 i'm kinda newbie 15:26:37 <_3b> kenanbolukbasi: Binary Space Partition 15:27:41 madsy [n=madsy@88.88.117.57] has joined #lisp 15:27:43 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-24-233.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:28:09 -!- benny` is now known as benny 15:28:21 -!- madsy is now known as Madsy 15:29:24 kiuma: haha, java doesn 15:29:30 t do that big numbers even =p 15:30:02 yep :) 15:30:03 (without using the Bignum class) 15:30:09 brown [n=user@72.14.228.137] has joined #lisp 15:30:19 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-75-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:30:37 -!- brown is now known as Guest10891 15:30:56 konr [n=user@201.82.136.87] has joined #lisp 15:32:55 Xantoz, Java has bignum, you just have to explicitly declare them as that 15:33:25 java.lang.bignum 15:33:33 thank you very much for your help. I ask admins to update slime. If they don't, I will simply use --no-site-file 15:33:45 sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:33:47 jthing: yes, i just mentioned it 15:34:03 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-197-86.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:34:38 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:35:53 -!- reb [n=user@72.14.228.137] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:07 -!- DamienCassou [n=cassou@pdpc/supporter/active/damiencassou] has left #lisp 15:36:13 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 15:37:14 _3b: yes, i guess this is much more suitable than the options (being things like structure, a simple plist, an oop representation) which i have in mind :) i was thinking more of an abstract choice, but since i now saw a much better one, may i ask you if there are libraries which can help me on this bsp thing (failed on cliki search :\ ) 15:37:54 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has 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[n=jthing@88.159.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:39:51 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:39:51 -!- slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:39:51 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:39:51 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:39:51 -!- REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:39:51 -!- Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.114.159.39] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:39:51 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.252.40] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:39:51 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:39:51 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:39:51 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:39:51 -!- chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:40:26 stassats: Are you going to implement the save-only-necessary-buffers feature today? 15:40:41 Reaver [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:40:46 unlikely today 15:41:09 what's on your plate today :-) ? 15:41:53 i'm still in the process of debugging mcclim 15:42:49 billitch [n=billitch@fac34-6-82-240-131-189.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:53 luis [n=user@195.22.30.41] has joined #lisp 15:45:27 -!- luis [n=user@195.22.30.41] has quit [Killed by reynolds.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 15:45:34 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:45:34 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:34 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:34 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 15:45:34 delYsid 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#lisp 15:46:03 marioxcc [n=user@200.77.69.89] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.252.40] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.114.159.39] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 jthing [n=jthing@88.159.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has joined #lisp 15:47:26 Good afternoon. 15:47:27 _3b: yes, i guess this is much more suitable than the options (being things like structure, a simple plist, an oop representation) which i have in mind :) i was thinking more of an abstract choice, but since i now saw a much better one, may i ask you if there are libraries which can help me on this bsp thing (failed on cliki search :\ ) 17:42:47 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 17:42:47 17:42:47 -!- names: ccl-logbot ignas kpreid jewel redline6561 addled morphling sjbach tcr Krystof slyrus gz eldragon tvaalen Zhivago Draggor foom Aisling Xach j0ni zbigniew yacin antifuchs moesenle scode luis fgtech piso ramus` ianmcorvidae jyujin guaqua housel [df] alexsuraci fihi09 qidush kuwabara1 krappie franki^ abeaumont Tordek dostoyevsky Fade peddie nowhere_man bfein_ Buganini phadthai z0d ahaas reid08` delYsid jrockway Fare dlowe nicklevine Kolyan araujo__ 17:42:47 -!- names: myrkraverk`` spradnyesh ace4016 rrice1 serichse` OmniMancer lpolzer hicx174_ TDT`` dstatyvka kejsaren2 kejsaren1 mrsolo grouzen dcrawford froydnj dek52 bfein 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["Leaving."] 18:08:15 -!- Sumpen [n=Sumpen@78-72-33-106-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:08:21 luis`: I don't think callback form foreign threads are worth the trouble. A message queue looks like a nice 80% solution (: 18:10:05 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@93-81-157-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:10:40 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:17 ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:45 zbeasnyy [n=mornfall@ip-89-103-110-62.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 18:15:21 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:16:13 -!- dek52 [n=eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:17:12 pkhuong: yeah, I agree 18:18:37 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:20:10 Guthur [n=Michael@host86-136-49-51.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:59 sctb [n=sctb@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:33 _8david [n=user@port-92-195-41-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:43 -!- lichtblau [n=user@bob.askja.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:23:22 mornfall [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 18:26:28 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-26-42-34.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:26:32 -!- zbeasnyy [n=mornfall@ip-89-103-110-62.karneval.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 18:26:58 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-29-68-152.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:28:55 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-60-82-254-242-56.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:31:31 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-24-82-64-191-56.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:40 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-154-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:03 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:55 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:42:04 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 18:42:08 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:42:31 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 18:42:53 bobbysmith007 pasted "Error when calling sb-ext:run-program" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92211 18:43:06 When running programs from sbcl, sbcl seems to get into a state where I always get the following error: 18:43:06 c-string decoding error (:external-format :UTF-8): the octet sequence 2 cannot be decoded. 18:43:06 After I get this error, I cannot get the results (stdout) of executing any program until I restart sbcl. Is this a known bug or do I seem to be doing it wrong? (paste coming momentarily) 18:43:38 paste was actually just before my comments 18:44:09 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:44:27 bobbysmith007: I get that sometimes too. I don't know what the fix is. I usually restart Lisp. 18:44:32 (not a very good workaround) 18:44:51 <_3b> is that the one where you have garbage in the env vars? 18:45:27 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-82-106.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:45:40 _3b: what env vars? I am setting LC_CTYPE and PGPASSFILE immediately before executing 18:46:07 I would use another locale by default (say, C). 18:46:27 <_3b> bobbysmith007: does (posix-environ) work? 18:46:39 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:46:51 _3b: nope 18:46:55 same error 18:47:13 my env vars also seem to get lost after a bit and get reset back to nil, which also didnt make much sense 18:47:49 so I can putenv, then getenv fine then when I check after I start noticing errors, they are gone again 18:48:11 but can be reset (which does not fix the problem) 18:48:27 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 18:48:31 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:49:18 Xach: either way, thanks for the confirmation. Have you ever tried tracking it down? Im not opposed to doing so, but dont want to waste tons of time if someone has already made headway at it 18:49:29 -!- kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@d90-129-209-54.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:50:06 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.214.188] has joined #lisp 18:50:42 bobbysmith007: i did not try to track it down 18:52:05 <_3b> if it is the corrupted environment thing, i've seen it once, and heard of other people having problems with it, but nobody found a cause that i know of 18:52:31 _3b: well, we found it for fare's test case. 18:52:41 <_3b> pkhuong: a cause you mean? 18:52:50 yes. 18:53:07 <_3b> ah, cool 18:53:48 pkhuong: is there a mailing list post / bug report related? Is there a workaround? 18:53:51 Looking at the implementation of process-wait, shouldn't it be trivial to make process-wait take a timeout argument? (Just pass it down to serve-all-events?) 18:54:15 bobbysmith007: the workaround was not to use putenv or something like that. 18:54:36 pkhuong: oh... 18:54:40 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 18:55:01 *_3b* wonders if i was using something that called that when i had problems with it 18:55:08 ok not just passing down, but still straightforward 18:57:29 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:30 jep [n=Jorge_Pr@186.16.80.61] has joined #lisp 18:59:24 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 19:02:44 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-71-247-105-237.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:45 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-179-59.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:04:22 (when (eql output :string) 19:04:25 (close output))) 19:04:32 that seems wrong, btw 19:04:46 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:46 maybe you want UNLESS there 19:05:58 oh, there's two different OUTPUT variables. that output will never be :string 19:05:58 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-76-209.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:06:07 pkhuong: even there are decent workarounds for the callback issue, crashing doesn't seem like good behaviour. 19:06:19 *even if 19:06:29 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-46-47.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:06:44 luis`: we could drop into ldb, I guess. 19:07:07 still lame :) 19:07:50 depends on how hard it is to detect that you're being called in a foreign thread 19:08:06 rahul: that part I managed to do, I think. 19:08:32 ok, then you can just return some sort of failure back into C 19:08:33 -!- sctb [n=sctb@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:09:11 although I meant hard in terms of computation, not coding :) 19:09:28 i.e., is it worth the overhead? 19:10:12 rahul: call_into_lisp() looks up some thread local variables, on non-lisp threads this lookup fails. The overhead is there already. 19:10:59 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:11:41 luis`: great 19:12:03 so having it fail gracefully shouldn't be hard 19:12:24 although it should probably notfiy someone because the caller might not care what the result of the functoin is 19:13:02 CCL and Lispworks (at least) lispify the thread. I kind of like that. 19:13:14 -!- kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:13:23 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 19:14:18 rahul: good spot, thanks 19:15:28 konr [n=user@201.82.136.87] has joined #lisp 19:20:40 konr` [n=user@201.82.136.87] has joined #lisp 19:20:58 Wombatzus [n=user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:51 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:22:05 kwinz3_ [i=kwinz@213142103082.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 19:26:54 plage [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-101.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:26:58 Good evening! 19:29:23 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-29-68-152.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:29:32 aintme [n=user@36.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:30:44 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-6-101.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:30:59 hello 19:31:38 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 19:34:45 jgracin [n=jgracin@vipnet101-86.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 19:34:55 mstevens [n=mstevens@81.2.103.23] has joined #lisp 19:35:22 -!- konr [n=user@201.82.136.87] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:36:11 hey fe[nl]ix 19:36:42 -!- nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:36:53 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:57 newb question, in sbcl REPL, how can I lookup the doc of a function/macro? I'm looking for the equivalent of clojure (doc) 19:40:04 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:07 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@vipnet101-86.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:40:09 eno: you use slime. 19:40:31 eno: the standard function is DOCUMENTATION 19:40:44 Xach: thx 19:40:55 antoni` [n=user@193.pool85-53-7.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 19:42:08 note that CL has multiple bindings for a single name, so you need to specify the documentation of which kind of binding 19:42:08 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:42:32 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:00 rahul: e.g. (documentation mapcan) gives me debugger 19:43:19 how can I specify the binding? 19:43:28 clhs documentation 19:43:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_docume.htm 19:43:31 clhs mapcan 19:43:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 19:43:32 francogrex [n=user@154.96-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:44:21 I'm gonna install service pack2, uninstall gcc and install VC++ and new ecl. Wish me good luck 19:44:29 eno: documentation is a function. 19:44:49 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:44:59 eno: mapcan doesn't have a variable binding, most likely 19:45:18 and documentation takes two parameters... read the spec as suggested by adeht 19:45:26 k 19:45:44 It's not wise to refer to the docstring for a function specified by the standard 19:46:03 yeah, docstrings for those functions will not likely tell you much about how the function works 19:46:13 -!- konr` [n=user@201.82.136.87] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:46:30 if you're lucky, it might indicate how the function handles some implementation-defined cases 19:47:52 -!- francogrex [n=user@154.96-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:48:32 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:51:36 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 19:55:35 __init__ [n=meltingw@c-69-255-106-134.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:11 -!- antoni` [n=user@193.pool85-53-7.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:56:31 -!- rrice1 [n=rrice@adsl-99-51-210-129.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:57:14 rrice [n=rrice@adsl-99-164-109-247.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:23 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.214.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:59:01 pkhuong, speaking of which, what's to be done to get patches committed? 19:59:41 I have two patches pending. SBCL10 is over. Should I bug the mailing-list? 19:59:50 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.252.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:59:53 -!- akamaus [n=maus@95.106.70.40] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:00:32 -!- gabnet [n=gabnet@226.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:00:36 lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.252.40] has joined #lisp 20:00:51 Fare: probably. I can try to look over them and commit, but no guarantee. 20:01:07 gabnet [n=gabnet@226.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:11 thanks a lot! 20:01:28 konr [n=user@201.82.136.87] has joined #lisp 20:02:38 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:05:42 hi Fare 20:05:47 Fare: I have a certain number of patches to re-review on my end too. 20:05:57 Fare: Did you attend SBCL10? If so, if there summary of what transpired on the web someplace? 20:05:58 and some pressure to commit some other stuff as contribs ;) 20:07:18 fe[nl]ix, hi! 20:07:26 reb: I didn't 20:08:12 fe[nl]ix, cffi/grovel/asdf.lisp is disarmingly simple, yet extraordinarily painful to add to XCVB. I am brainstorming for a better way to extend XCVB. 20:09:01 reb: but the short story is that the elders of london met, and that the eschaton will be implemented! 20:09:12 elders? 20:09:39 the secret head council of the illuminati 20:09:57 ah, but will it be immanentized? 20:10:26 Fade: yes, that too. 20:10:36 rockin' good news 20:10:43 A trip to the pub lead to the realisation that Krystof thinks classes (or some good enough ersatz) early in the bootstrap are easy, while I think an approximation of generic functions is easy enough ;) 20:11:12 pkhuong: divide and conquer! 20:12:01 pkhuong, especially since you probably don't need a lot of MOP at bootstrap 20:12:28 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-154-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:12:36 Fare: right, "generic function", not CLOS ;) 20:13:32 -!- gabnet [n=gabnet@226.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:13:47 pkhuong: so basically just the standard method combination? 20:14:04 davazp [n=user@102.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:41 linearization is probably the most complicated part of that 20:14:49 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:10 although, all you really need to do is sort the methods and loop through seeing if one is applicable or not 20:15:29 rahul: yes, and probably some more. I have a few very specific use cases in mind. Practically, we'd probably recompile everything post-PCL-boot. 20:15:38 right 20:16:02 just something that's useful for bootstrapping if we want core CL functions to be generic 20:16:07 -!- konr [n=user@201.82.136.87] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:34 Oh, bah, not really. I want CLOS for the compiler. 20:16:57 oh nice 20:17:05 yes, that is something really useful 20:17:22 we don't need core CL functions to be generic 20:17:26 we just need a useful CL protocol 20:17:38 oh, and a good number of papers for ELS2010 :-) 20:17:42 Krystof: one such protocol could be the generic function 20:18:07 generic-+ doesn't have to be generic; it only has to default to a random CL function. 20:18:20 I agree it's not universally useful. we need protocols for functions and even macros that aren't cleanly amenable to that treatment 20:18:45 nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:47 oh, hey, I said that no-one was tweeting but in fact luis _was_ tweeting 20:19:13 and rudi 20:19:54 shows you what I know 20:20:06 -!- Harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-67-27.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:20:28 they were stealth-tweeting 20:21:04 hmm I wonder if a google phone could do that... bluetooth headset + speech-to-text 20:21:10 twitter probably won't catch on 20:21:28 so, if I insert some offset in large objects (to avoid aliasing). Would you prefer a nice prng or just a linear increment? 20:21:45 -!- davazp [n=user@102.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:21:52 Ragnaroek [n=chatzill@p54A66DB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:22 I'm leaning toward the latter, since it's much simpler to understand. 20:22:35 gz` [n=gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:43 can't you trust the host CLOS enough for your purposes? 20:23:06 or do you have to build your own because you have to be able to marshall out objects to .fasl? 20:23:13 Fare: what host? We're in the target, but CLOS hasn't been compiled yet. 20:23:53 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:23:53 -!- sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:23:53 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@75.36.223.113] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:23:53 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:24:14 in these days of widespread MOP support, couldn't that be done "just" by using a closer-mop and a metaclass? 20:24:39 what's "inserting an offset in a large object"? 20:24:50 Fare: CLOS hasn't been loaded in the target yet 20:24:50 jahmarley [n=jahmarle@88.238.210.27] has joined #lisp 20:25:09 pkhuong, oh, in the target. Can't the host compile PCL in the target as part of the bootstrap? 20:25:18 Fare: it sure would be nice. 20:25:19 or is that too messy? 20:25:29 although, couldn't the bootstrap phase output the functions with bodies as CONDs? 20:26:00 sometimes only ":" is used for calling something from a package, sometimes double, what is the difference? 20:26:15 jahmarley: internal symbols vs external symbols 20:26:27 jahmarley: if it's exported from the package, all you need is a single colon 20:26:33 Fare: that wasn't clearly worded. I'm un-aligning large vectors to avoid aliasing issues (while guaranteeing cache-line alignment). 20:27:26 aliasing so that caches don't get their associativity strained? 20:27:40 er aliasing causing that, would be the more precise wording 20:27:52 so can i call an object which is not particularly exported from package by "::" ? 20:28:09 rahul: right. 20:28:11 -!- _8david [n=user@port-92-195-41-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:28:46 jahmarley: packages manage symbols, only. so you can refer to something named by a symbol regardless of its export status with ::. 20:29:10 jahmarley: it can be misleading, i think, to talk about exporting "objects" or "classes" or "functions". You export the names. 20:30:11 _8david [n=user@port-92-195-41-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:30:29 jahmarley: right, think of the names as being what's exported, not the objects 20:30:41 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:43 because that's what's realy happening 20:31:28 pkhuong, interesting. For large objects, I suppose you could XORing the offsets of low-level accessors with a constant. 20:31:55 constant that would depend on the address of the page or something. 20:32:05 is offsetof standard? 20:32:06 rahul: Xof made me a patch that would style-warn if you used :: unnecessarily. 20:32:23 Fare: eh? 20:32:31 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-82-106.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:32:37 the use of "::" is actually rarely needed, in my experience. 20:32:52 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Killed by douglas.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 20:32:55 gz [n=gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:55 slyrus [n=slyrus@75.36.223.113] has joined #lisp 20:32:55 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 20:32:55 sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:11 also, freenode is driving me crazy these last couple of days. 20:33:12 it was an excellent opportunity to add another annoying warning 20:33:14 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:35 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:34:55 (lispobj)(&((struct vector *)0)->data) <- does that seem legit to you? (: 20:35:21 offsetof? 20:35:37 -!- araujo__ [n=araujo@190.38.49.150] has quit [Client Quit] 20:35:55 yeah. Except I'm not sure in what standard that is. 20:35:56 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:36:06 C89. Good enough. 20:36:07 #include 20:36:21 -!- aintme [n=user@36.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:36:23 adeht: that's not the question. 20:36:29 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- piso [n=peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- kuwabara1 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host188.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- bfein_ [n=bfein@pool-74-104-157-229.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- reid08` [n=reid08@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- yacin [n=yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-147-238.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-166-196.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- tvaalen [n=tvaal@209.9.227.203] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- ahaas [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216.80.120.145] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- [df] [n=df@bspencer.plus.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- scode [n=scode@85.17.42.115] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- franki^ [n=franki@unaffiliated/franki] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- luis [n=user@64.71.152.157] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- Aisling [i=ash@24.89.251.92] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- jyujin [n=mdeining@vs166245.vserver.de] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- housel [n=user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- peddie [n=peddie@TEP.MIT.EDU] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- qidush [n=qidush@c83-252-27-42.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:36:29 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@75.36.223.113] has quit [Success] 20:36:29 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 20:36:41 pkhuong: misread for "standard header" 20:37:28 rahul, Xach: sorry for my bad terminology, you're right, thanks, i guess i understood the situation better now, one more thing, how do i choose whether to in-package or use-package both when i work with packages from some other persons library and working on my own packages, especially when latter one. 20:37:50 5 little trees in a DVCS; one grew, two grew, and so did all the rest. They grew, and they grew, and they did not stop, until one day that clone went POP 20:38:46 YuleAtha` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:39:26 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:39:32 jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-37-154.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:39:32 djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:44 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:40:28 squash, squash, squash the fine-grained commits 20:42:04 jahmarley: almost always, you want to define your own package, usually :use'ing some other packages, then work in that package. 20:42:59 jahmarley: use-package is rarely what you want, and in-package will appear at least once in almost every lisp source file you create. 20:44:40 akamaus [n=maus@78.31.79.209] has joined #lisp 20:46:05 drewc: i see, thanks :) 20:47:32 jahmarley: if it hasn't yet been suggested, http://www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf is an oft recommended resource. 20:47:59 actually, even if it has been suggested, it's still recommended often... 20:48:11 but yeah. 20:48:13 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 reid08` [n=reid08@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 ahaas [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 bfein_ [n=bfein@pool-74-104-157-229.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 peddie [n=peddie@TEP.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 Tordek [n=tordek@host188.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 franki^ [n=franki@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 kuwabara1 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 qidush [n=qidush@c83-252-27-42.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-166-196.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 [df] [n=df@bspencer.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 housel [n=user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 jyujin [n=mdeining@vs166245.vserver.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-147-238.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 piso [n=peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 luis [n=user@64.71.152.157] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 scode [n=scode@85.17.42.115] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 yacin [n=yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 Aisling [i=ash@24.89.251.92] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 Draggor [n=Draggor@216.80.120.145] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:13 tvaalen [n=tvaal@209.9.227.203] has joined #lisp 20:48:17 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:48:50 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:48:57 Fare: thanks. I look forward to the eschaton. 20:49:24 drewc: ok, downloaded, seems short (that's nicer), i'll dive into it soon, thanks 20:50:37 -!- plage [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-101.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:50:41 gabnet [n=gabnet@226.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:47 blackened`_ [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 20:53:28 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:53:31 hraban_ [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:53:52 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:54:10 by the way, i usually don't see people recommend cltl among the starters for newbies, probably because it is not totally ansi compliant, but most of the times, i find it very useful since it seems like it is between a reference and a tutorial especially for some chapters, and sometimes it makes things easier to understand, is it very problematic using ctlt as one of the main sources, or is it ok unless i check for differences from hyperspec time to time? 20:55:04 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 20:55:19 jahmarley: i think it's great to read, but i wouldn't start from it 20:55:27 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:55:41 jahmarley: many other books provide great information once you have the ability to tell where they are straying off-base 20:57:10 mtd_ [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:13 jahmarley: "practical common lisp" is probably the most recommended starting point if one is already familiar with some other languages. CLtL2 is a nice book to read, but was written for lispers as much as it was for those learning lisp. 20:58:23 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:59:07 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:01:07 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-6-101.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:05:38 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@ABordeaux-158-1-6-101.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:06:52 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:06:56 prxq [n=mommer@e179048073.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:44 Xach: you are right about that, i just am in a strange position as a newbie, because programming is not my profession, i am not learning it in a school, i have some experience with different languages, but not worked in a serious programming project that required me to learn everything deeply, so my knowledge of programming has so much holes and absent layers, that's why while reading something, usually a reference which has everything about the subject m 21:08:22 -!- kwinz3_ [i=kwinz@213142103082.public.telering.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:09:19 jahmarley: hmm, I'd think that would make cltl an even more difficult book for you to read 21:10:09 minion: tell jahmarley about gentle 21:10:09 jahmarley: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 21:10:13 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 21:10:26 right, 'gentle' is good. 21:10:49 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:11:22 kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@213162066165.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 21:12:58 rahul: hmm, even i found it strange while writing, but it is true :) also, it is nice to read about the choices of commitee on certain situations as reports inside chapters, that makes me thing about the options and pros and cons of them while learning, and that somehow provides a better understanding of subject, i guess 21:13:27 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-82-134.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 21:14:33 ok, then i'll start reading gentle, too. thanks, everyone, for your patience and help about newbie problems, as always :) 21:15:25 lisp is very nic 21:15:27 e 21:15:41 it is worth the learning effort 21:16:03 I tackled lisp as a programming noob and didnt know what the f was going on 21:16:12 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-37-154.iburst.co.za] has quit ["leaving"] 21:16:28 story of my life 21:16:43 cool story :) 21:17:31 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@81.2.103.23] has quit [] 21:17:44 Announcing Mike MacDonald's McLIDE! 21:17:47 erm, no. 21:18:10 btw, i am not using cltl as main source, i guess i've again used misguiding sentences, my main source is PCL, CLtL is the reference i use when i find it hard to understand hyperspec documents 21:18:34 jahmarley: ah, that's a nice use of it. 21:18:45 jahmarley: i also found it really nice to read it from cover to cover, after i had some experience 21:19:20 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:22:01 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f7560d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:22:45 -!- gabnet [n=gabnet@226.23.67-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:23:30 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 21:24:21 -!- _8david [n=user@port-92-195-41-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:24:27 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.214.188] has joined #lisp 21:24:31 I found the hyperspec nice to read from cover to cover to get a basic grounding in lisp 21:24:36 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:24:36 -!- sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:24:36 but that's me :P 21:25:22 -!- Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.114.159.39] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:25:29 Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.112.50.213] has joined #lisp 21:26:26 jahmarley1 [n=jahmarle@88.238.210.27] has joined #lisp 21:26:26 -!- jahmarley [n=jahmarle@88.238.210.27] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:26:33 rahul: The prose is a bit more dry, and I like having a physical book to leaf through and track progress. 21:27:23 btw, the name hyperspec is great, not every cl subject is not among the first results when you google it, but hyperspec is :) 21:27:32 _8david [n=user@port-92-195-41-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 -!- huangjs` [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:29:47 Xach: as I said, that's me :P 21:29:53 Xach: i wonder, i read your reports on modernization of emacs and some of them were about scrath buffer, what do you think of slime-scratch 21:30:15 CL is probably the only language with an HTMLized 21:30:25 ANSI or ISO spec 21:31:06 maybe because we are masters of the macro 21:31:18 yes, because kmp has zmacs superpowers 21:31:38 lisp also at the top when you search for "smug weenie" 21:32:04 cmm: ahha, nice point :D 21:32:47 cmm: no it's not! :) 21:33:33 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-71-247-105-237.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:40 (ok, talking to myself, means it's time to quietly nod off) 21:33:44 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 21:33:44 sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:01 dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 21:35:13 bah why didn't they make BREAK take the same arguments as ERROR 21:35:17 (handler-bind ((foo #'break)) ...) would be nice 21:35:40 konr [n=user@201.82.136.87] has joined #lisp 21:36:24 shouldn't that work? 21:36:33 break &optional datum, no? 21:37:00 oh, it has to be a format control 21:37:26 cmm: in fact i find it nice that the users of a language are ready to talk and even argue about the language features, this made me choose lisp and i am very happy with my choice 21:37:39 -!- leadnose [i=leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has left #lisp 21:37:41 tcr: use invoke-debugger, I think 21:38:11 although you need to surround that with a continue restart, bleh 21:38:23 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:23 -!- antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:23 -!- piso [n=peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:23 -!- guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:23 -!- kuwabara1 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:23 -!- krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:23 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host188.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:23 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[n=joni@192.219.30.200] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- jyujin [n=mdeining@vs166245.vserver.de] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- housel [n=user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- peddie [n=peddie@TEP.MIT.EDU] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- qidush [n=qidush@c83-252-27-42.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:38:24 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:39:42 I find *break-on-signals* cumbersome to use, so I mostly insert such handler-binds 21:40:27 I just wonder why. It didn't occur to me that I can locally bind that one too to have it only apply to some dynamic extent 21:40:28 (curry #'break "~A") 21:41:42 jahmarley1: I think were confusing Xach with Xah Lee (Xach Lee? *shudder*) 21:42:14 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:42:34 adeht: ups, right 21:42:39 [df] [n=df@bspencer.plus.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:15 sorry Xach :\ 21:44:18 Krystof: papply ;) 21:45:16 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:46:09 jmbr [n=jmbr@201.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:46:43 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 21:46:43 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:46:43 reid08` [n=reid08@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:43 ahaas [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:43 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 21:46:43 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#lisp 22:18:27 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 22:18:30 good night 22:18:32 -!- dalkvist_ [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 22:18:52 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06fb90.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["bad"] 22:18:53 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:19:19 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:19:20 dalkvist_ [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #lisp 22:19:53 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:21:07 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 22:27:43 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:28:08 Hmm..for any clsql experts here. For this particular bit of code: http://gist.github.com/258247 I'm trying to select objects from one database, and insert into another. I took out the create table portion to illustrate the error in the 2nd part. Are there any ways to select an object out of one database, and insert it into another? The update* updates the record, which makes sense by its name..but I would like to insert if possible. 22:29:14 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-82-134.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit ["Excuse me while I go and sharpen my knives."] 22:29:15 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 22:30:37 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:30:47 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:31:19 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 22:31:41 hi 22:32:45 I have a question regarding mirrors in CLIM (McCLIM specifically). The CLIM spec says that the mirror is implementation-specific. Does it rather mean backend-specific, or is there a basic-mirror in McCLIM (which I couldn't find)? 22:33:51 kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@d90-129-209-54.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 22:34:47 pkhuong pasted "Avoiding aliasing is *useful*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92227 22:35:32 LiamH: *ahem* I haven't gotten any further with either the docs or the tests in GSLL. I got rather distracted with a ncurses backend for mcclim, which _seems_ to be coming along relatively well... 22:35:37 -!- dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:36:17 Sikander: nice! no worries on docs; I've been busy wrapping up the semester so I haven't done anything on GSLL in a while. 22:36:35 But that will change soon, once final grades have been turned in. 22:37:53 -!- TDT`` [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:38:23 BTW there's been an interesting (and looong) thread on the CCL mailing list about documentation. Brian Mastenbrook mentioned a PLT scheme documentation system known as scribble http://docs.plt-scheme.org/scribble/index.html. 22:39:59 -!- konr [n=user@201.82.136.87] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:40:01 Hmm, looks interesting... 22:40:06 But scheme... 22:40:52 Yeah, I saw some mention of using it to doc non-scheme languages, but it seems pretty tied to scheme. 22:40:57 pkhuong: nice 22:41:08 pkhuong annotated #92227 "asm" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92227#1 22:41:50 I found http://www.cliki.net/scribble but it evidently has nothing to do with the scheme scribble (it seems that "scribble" is a heavily overloaded name in software). 22:43:55 Hmm... 22:44:35 It seems there is a lot of choice but nothing really immediately usable or so. 22:45:21 When I was writing applications in C, I started with manpages, and once I started with libraries and larger projects, I switched to texinfo. 22:45:25 #'<, hm? 22:45:27 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:46:04 Yes, that's essentially where the CCL discussion ended up. I'm not really keen on the "let's build our own tool" take on the problem; I sympathize with the motivation, but if you just want to make documentation, it's a distraction. 22:46:05 But it's strange that CL doesn't have any dominating package like that. Perhaps because of the existence of #'documentation? 22:46:20 Krystof: Might be an issue in the xml-rpc layer 22:46:57 Sikander: there were some we talked about before, but nothing that seems active and a favorite 22:47:23 what's your standard deviation? (or inter-quartile range if you prefer) 22:47:42 LiamH: The weird thing is, that texinfo has a special command called @lisp 22:47:44 davazp [n=user@102.Red-83-57-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:00 Sikander: What does that do? 22:48:05 LiamH: But there's no easy way to tie (C)L source and docs together 22:48:27 LiamH: I'm not sure I understand it: http://uw714doc.sco.com/cgi-bin/info2html?(texinfo)lisp&lang=en 22:48:50 LiamH: (first google result on texinfo @lisp) 22:48:53 Sikander: Well the scribble people seem to be very into the literate programming style, if you look at that web doc. 22:49:53 Krystof: there's no difference between the 25th, 50th and 75th quantiles. 22:50:05 Sikander: hmm "evaluates ... the lisp code" -- so they actually do have something reading/running the documentation? 22:50:28 pkhuong: good good 22:50:30 LiamH: How easy is porting stuff from scheme to cl? I played a bit with scheme a long time ago, for scripting the gimp, but quickly decided I didn't like it 22:50:46 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.218.164] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 22:50:47 LiamH: Yeah, that's what I thought as well. But why say it's synonymous with @example then? 22:51:11 LiamH: I find that whole explanation very confusing 22:51:24 Sikander: I know a little scheme, I've done some scsh programming, but I wouldn't be the one to do or comment on the effort involved in a port. 22:51:58 LiamH: I would not like to port something anyway. Keeping up-to-date would be awful 22:52:17 LiamH: Isn't there a plt scheme interpreter in cl? :) 22:52:18 Sikander: @lisp is synonymous with @example because the only examples you possibly would want to show are in Lisp, right? 22:52:32 LiamH: ? 22:52:42 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:52:43 LiamH: In our case, yes, but in general... 22:52:54 Sikander: I forgot the :-) 22:52:57 I think scheme is really really nice. 22:52:59 LiamH: ah :) 22:53:41 LiamH: I would think since GNU is all about the texinfo, and emacs as well, that there would be some way to connect the two in an easy way. 22:54:36 LiamH: I mean GNU docs -> texinfo, GNU programming -> emacs, emacs -> lisp but no lisp <-> texinfo?! 22:55:16 LiamH: But scribble looks quite interesting. 22:55:26 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 22:55:35 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:55:56 Hmm 22:57:00 Is there anyone who can comment on mirrors in McCLIM? Is the mirror implementation-specific (as the spec says) or backend-specific (which would make more sense to me)? 22:58:12 emma: Do you use both cl and scheme? 22:59:04 gruseom [n=daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has joined #lisp 22:59:06 I tried to get into CL for a little while but it just got so convoluted. I like Scheme because it makes sense. 22:59:38 emma: ok, describe all the things that define could do 23:00:04 I believe that are 4 different behaviors, but there is a potential 5th that I don't understand 23:00:25 ZooYork2007 [n=ZooYork2@pool-71-246-67-199.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:46 Hmmm, so there isn't a straight-forward way to quickly, easily convert scheme into cl.. 23:01:04 Sikander: sometimes there is, sometimes not. 23:01:14 pseudoscheme? 23:01:41 Sikander: especially if the scheme code uses define :) 23:01:56 -!- xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:02:06 heheh 23:02:23 Hmm... So there isn't a scheme interpreter written in cl, then... 23:02:29 I never used pseudoscheme, but one of its stated features is that it "Translates to somewhat idiomatic Common Lisp" 23:02:35 ah 23:02:40 I'll look it up 23:02:49 rahul: I only thought define did one thing. What are these 4 or 5 things? 23:02:51 Sikander, "convert scheme into cl" is not teh same as "interpret scheme in cl" 23:02:57 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:58 -!- balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:03:31 schme: redefinitinons that are lexically scoped are the tricky ones 23:03:44 schme: and defintions that propagate backwards 23:03:53 emma: It's funny. I got confused by scheme, and found that cl made sense. Maybe I also think in weird ways... 23:04:03 -!- ZooYork2007 [n=ZooYork2@pool-71-246-67-199.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 23:04:14 rahul: Hmm. I guess. I didn't split those up into different things, but ok. 23:04:18 schme: actually, it's the redefinition part that I haven't grasped 23:04:28 emma: You might like #scheme :) 23:04:38 heheh 23:05:19 schme: (let (...) (f ...) (define (f ...) ...) (f ...) (define (f ...) ...) (f ...)) I'm not sure which f gets called in each of those 3 spots 23:05:35 Adlai: Yes, that's true. But for what I want to do, it doesn't matter. Whether I run the scribble thing in C or first convert it and then run it... 23:05:37 and then repeat the exercise with a definitin of f outside of the let 23:05:38 rahul: I think it might very well be implementation dependant. 23:05:43 -!- a-s` [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:05:49 schme: hmm maybe 23:06:44 I'd love to try it out on a few different r6 compliant schemes but well.. not really happening. 23:07:00 Goodnight 23:07:07 yes good plan. good night :) 23:07:09 r5 would be fine, too 23:07:15 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Time to die... eh, sleep."] 23:07:23 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:07:24 *schme* also goodnights! 23:07:26 -!- dl [n=user@dhcp04.hpc.unm.edu] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:07:42 night 23:10:29 dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:50 rahul: it's not standard compliant to have an internal let after anything that's not an internal let. 23:11:17 what happens is completely implementation dependant; I'm a fan of signaling an error at macroexpansion-time. 23:11:39 schme: i do like scheme, i'm there already. 23:14:08 -!- kwinz3_ [n=kwinz@d90-129-209-54.cust.tele2.at] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:08 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:08 -!- antifuchs [n=foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:08 -!- piso [n=peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:08 -!- guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:08 -!- kuwabara1 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:08 -!- krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:08 -!- Tordek 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[jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:08 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:08 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:08 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:08 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:14:49 -!- dmiles [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:16:10 pkhuong: well, at that makes sense, at least :) 23:16:28 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:33 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:36 *internal define, 23:17:58 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has quit ["be back later"] 23:18:45 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:52 kwinz3_ 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