00:03:16 -!- postamar [n=postamar@69-165-151-234.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 00:04:15 Posterdati__ [n=angel@host10-229-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:05:00 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 00:05:55 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:06 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.212.93] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 00:10:17 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:12:44 jthing [n=jthing@88.159.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 00:13:28 please turn your dcc script offf 00:14:02 They are doing a dcc flood 00:14:13 "they"? 00:14:32 well it happened here 00:14:53 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-67-170-39-104.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:23 who? 00:16:08 Don't have my honeypot up yet and I had to rebooot 00:16:59 -!- Posterdati_ [n=angel@host40-219-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:12 jthing: What on earth are you talking about? 00:17:48 schme, a dcc flood which eventually overloaded my system 00:18:10 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:18:12 hmmm. 00:18:33 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 00:18:33 and you have a script for this? 00:19:21 schme, with download request along the line 'my_sister_beaten.mpg' 00:19:45 ehehehe 00:20:43 So I set DCC requests to OFF, and I suggest you do the same 00:20:57 I got over 1000 00:21:31 what are you on, a 386? 00:21:39 Maas doppelganger 00:21:41 1000 messages is not much to process. 00:21:57 a dual core pention duo 00:22:05 pentium 00:22:23 I wasn't aware that such a thing as a "pentium duo" existed >_> 00:22:31 jthing: oh. leaving 'em turned on in the first place. Then it's pretty much your own fault :) 00:23:10 Well I shut DCC down now, and I suggest you do the same. 00:24:35 OK i went to sleep with a setup which allowed a confirmation. little did I know that that was the source of a DOS attack. 00:25:00 (Denial Of Service) DOS 00:25:24 :D 00:25:38 TMYK 00:25:48 jthing: thanks for the advice (: 00:25:56 Posterdati [n=angel@host24-230-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:26:28 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 00:26:33 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 00:26:37 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:26:48 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:37 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:55 -!- Posterdati__ [n=angel@host10-229-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:29:33 voidpointer [i=Void@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has joined #lisp 00:30:16 Posterdati_ [n=angel@host105-223-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:30:17 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-171-66.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:23 -!- Posterdati_ [n=angel@host105-223-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:32:30 rvirding [n=chatzill@h69n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:18 Posterdati_ [n=angel@host105-223-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:34:29 Whatever experience it for yourselves if you like 00:34:31 -!- Posterdati [n=angel@host24-230-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:35:13 ojw [n=ojw@78-86-37-93.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:35:39 -!- ojw [n=ojw@78-86-37-93.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 00:38:07 -!- konr`` [n=user@201.82.128.190] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:38:07 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:38:51 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 00:38:58 krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 00:39:49 -!- Posterdati_ [n=angel@host105-223-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:40:06 Posterdati [n=angel@host105-223-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:42:20 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:43:11 -!- voidpointer [i=Void@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:45:41 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 00:48:08 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:56 -!- Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@guestlaptop-18.cis.uoguelph.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:56:06 Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@guestlaptop-24.cis.uoguelph.ca] has joined #lisp 00:57:39 schme, this is the last O hev lo sy about the sybject 00:59:29 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:59:37 -!- kmc [n=keegan@207.237.163.75] has left #lisp 00:59:52 schme, this is the last I have to say about the subject.. 01:02:37 -!- jrockway_ is now known as jrockway 01:05:43 Sumpen [n=Sumpen@78-72-33-106-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:50 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [] 01:19:54 kpreid_ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:54 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:26:36 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:32:01 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 01:36:01 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-90.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:36:21 -!- pjb [n=t@152.Red-79-149-152.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:38:15 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:39:20 konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has joined #lisp 01:39:36 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@78.25.244.155] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:41:36 Minishark [n=eggman@c-98-229-2-11.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:02 -!- obneq [n=lukas@80-219-169-85.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:46:11 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 01:47:56 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:51:25 oew [i=ccc64c23@gateway/web/freenode/x-bujdqoqbmhfadhju] has joined #lisp 01:54:25 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-90.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:56:15 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:56:39 -!- drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:03:12 This might be a silly question, but SLIME doesn't seem to enable it by default, so here it goes: How do I make the REPL in SLIME color the syntax? 02:03:48 The Lisp file I have open automatically highlights it, but the REPL buffer doesn't, and I have to run lisp-mode each time. 02:07:21 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:08:14 -!- Bucciarati [n=buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:08:28 Bucciarati [n=buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:36 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:09:33 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-90.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:10:06 -!- oew [i=ccc64c23@gateway/web/freenode/x-bujdqoqbmhfadhju] has quit ["Page closed"] 02:11:09 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:12:48 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:13:03 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:25 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 02:16:58 -!- TDT [n=user@173-30-223-49.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:17:53 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:21:36 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:23:33 -!- Sumpen [n=Sumpen@78-72-33-106-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:27:52 -!- Minishark [n=eggman@c-98-229-2-11.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 02:28:31 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h69n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715083437]"] 02:28:41 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:31:22 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:32:00 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-146-24.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:33:03 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 02:34:37 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:36:01 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-69-138.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 02:38:38 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-90.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:39:02 sykopomp` [n=sykopomp@c-24-118-53-243.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:27 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:41:42 retupmoca` [n=retupmoc@adsl-76-235-169-202.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:41 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@adsl-76-235-169-202.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:42:49 -!- retupmoca` is now known as retupmoca 02:44:38 envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 02:50:38 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["goodnight"] 02:53:50 -!- sykopomp` [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:59:19 redblue [i=star@ppp179.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:01:29 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:02:32 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:01 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:04:03 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:05:54 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:06:06 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:35 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 03:08:57 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host188.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:11:10 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-10396.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:12:24 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:13:21 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp179.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 03:14:07 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:17:34 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:18:06 sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:21:45 -!- konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:22:07 konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has joined #lisp 03:24:06 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:24:21 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-31-226.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:24:50 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-29-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:25:36 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:37:26 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:37:49 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 03:41:33 derrida [n=derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 03:43:24 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:45:08 is cl-opengl a good place to start if I'm trying to get myself a 3d drawing context i can manipulate at runtime? 03:45:10 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:45:15 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-khwcaaaknlxbirgr] has joined #lisp 03:45:24 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 03:46:34 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 03:46:55 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:23 sure, derrida 03:50:06 derrida, you need a windowing library 03:50:17 cl-opengl does not have context creation 03:50:29 that's where i'm getting confused 03:50:41 you need either lispbuilder-sdl or cl-glfw 03:50:56 it includes enough to get a window up 03:51:02 might be a few others but thats the ones i know 03:51:10 lnostdal: cl-opengl? 03:51:14 oh though cl-opengl, does have bindings for glut 03:51:19 yes, derrida 03:51:44 ok, i'm going to get cl-opengl installed and mess about with it some 03:52:45 there are some examples included .. + an .asd file that compiles/loads them 03:54:09 i had forgot about glut 03:56:25 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-1-123.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:57:40 redblue [i=star@ppp022.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:58:15 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host86-136-52-94.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 03:58:34 mcclim is frustrating... I'm trying to follow the primer Jason Kantz wrote, and I can't get some of the things to work properly at all... :-/ 03:59:01 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:59:03 *derrida* googles mcclim 03:59:18 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:39 -!- Intensity [i=[113Kiu9@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:00:42 Good morning! 04:01:28 bfein_: Why are you not following the examples in the McCLIM manual instead? 04:01:46 wakeup^ [n=wakeup@koln-5d819eb0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:01 I suppose I'll go try that... the primer was linked to off the McClim wiki... 04:02:22 I'll be happy to help you out if you have any questions. 04:02:35 well, if you go to kantz.com/jason/clim-primer/commands.htm 04:02:45 and try to do the "Associating output with commands" portion 04:02:52 at least for me, I can't get the window to update 04:03:02 I'll occasionally see a very quick flash of what is supposed to display 04:03:06 and then its back to the initial display 04:03:11 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-235-135.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:04:09 bfein_: You typed in that example literally? 04:04:12 you probably need to record the output 04:04:34 I'm trying to fiddle with it now... I tried putting the command in a menu item, but using that gets me an error about inserting a newline into a single-line buffer 04:04:46 yes, I copy-pasted it 04:04:47 rahul: It's recorded, because it's an application pane. 04:04:52 except I'm in my own package 04:05:00 and that package is using :clim-user 04:06:01 I tried switching just in case it made a difference, but get the same result 04:06:21 OK, I'll try it out. What command gives you a short flash? 04:06:34 display-tree re-creates the initial state instead of redisplaying the current state, basically 04:06:46 but it shouldn't be redisplaying 04:06:55 because of :display-after-commands nil 04:06:56 right? 04:07:13 I'm not convinced that all works correctly 04:07:24 formulate works, tho 04:07:29 bfein_: I am not sure we have a display-after-commands. Hold on... 04:07:31 whatever I did in there manages to DTRT 04:07:45 aha, tracing display-tree does show it is being called each time 04:08:04 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.77.69.89] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:08:06 formulate? 04:08:37 bfein_: Yes, I think display-after-commands doesn't exist in the CLIM II spec, so the display-tree function is always called in the command loop. 04:08:46 bfein_: Use :display-time nil instead. 04:09:46 ah, that works 04:09:46 thanks 04:10:03 (defun display-monitor (*application-frame* *standard-output*) 04:10:04 (updating-output (t :unique-id (monitored-values *application-frame*)) 04:10:04 (map nil (lambda (item) (display-monitored-value item)) 04:10:06 (monitored-values *application-frame*)))) 04:10:16 this is what you'll want for a real application 04:11:03 basically, you want to store the current application's model in the application frame object and display it each time 04:11:08 I have no idea what most of that does :). I just started trying to learn mcclim 2 hours ago 04:12:11 heh 04:12:27 ah, so just keep state of each thing you want to ever display in some slot (e.g., monitored-values), and have :display-function for the application-frame be something like you just pasted 04:12:35 exactly 04:12:38 bfein_: What rahul is saying is that the most common way of writing a CLIM application, is to use the default for :display-time, which clears the pane and displays your entire data structure each time around the command loop. Your commands only modify that data structure. 04:13:02 bfein_: Then you typically use incremental redisplay to avoid flickering. 04:13:02 right, that way you get MVC behavior 04:13:18 bfein_: But you can wait with that until later if you want. 04:13:27 -!- wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d81ad81.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:14:23 I'm not really sure what Jason is trying to show in his code 04:14:23 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@58.68.66.213] has joined #lisp 04:14:33 it seems pretty badly written :) 04:15:55 well, I'll go take a look at the manual. thanks for the help 04:16:34 rahul: It tries to illustrate define-presentation-to-command-translator as far as I can tell. 04:17:40 yeah, ok, it seems to do that correctly 04:18:04 and I did get that part... though I don't understand why, when I added the down-tree command to the menubar (with a default argument of the root node, just for testing), and clicked it, I got the error about inserting newline into a single-line buffer 04:18:15 except that you don't need it for that case 04:18:38 -!- SharkBrain [n=gerard@210.48.104.34] has quit ["leaving"] 04:19:40 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.132.130] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:19:55 bfein_: I am guessing that it is because that command needs an argument, and that argument is not supplied when you click on a menu item, so it prompts you for it, but there is no pane for prompting (typically an interaction pane). 04:20:21 I added an interaction pane 04:20:24 (define-formulate-command (com-remove-object :name "Remove Object From Monitor") 04:20:25 ((object 'formulated-object :prompt "Object" :gesture :menu)) 04:20:25 (remove-from-monitor object *application-frame*)) 04:20:27 and specified the root node as the default 04:21:01 you only need the :gesture option to add a simple translation 04:21:02 in the com-tree-down command 04:21:27 rahul: What are you trying to illustrate here. The example doesn't mention anything about monitoring. 04:21:42 i.e., ((node 'node :default (tree-current-node *application-frame*))) in the define-tree-command's argument list 04:22:14 (and tree-current-node was set in the display-tree method to be the root node) 04:22:23 beach: how to get the result of define-pres-to-cmd-xlator without using it 04:22:39 just add a :gesture option to the arg in the command 04:23:06 rahul: But what is your "monitor" stuff about? It is not in the example being looked at. 04:24:46 beach: it's just what's in my command's body 04:25:06 change the args, names, and body to suit your app :) 04:25:30 bfein_: If you added and interactor and a menu bar, I would have to look at your code as opposed to the one that you pointed us to in order to see what the problem might be. 04:25:43 I'll paste it 04:26:10 rahul: That might be hard to follow for someone who is just starting with CLIM, and who doesn't know what's part of CLIM, and what's part of your application. 04:26:28 minion: tell bfein_ about lisppaste. 04:26:28 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 04:27:33 I pasted it... doesn't the paste bot usually broadcast pastes? 04:27:44 eh, I trust Ben's smartness :) 04:27:56 bfein_: you have to select #lisp as the channel 04:28:24 ah, I didn't see a channel box... its at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92059 04:28:54 I see it now going back and looking 04:32:44 bfein_: remove the ~% from the format. 04:33:00 sure, but why wasn't it causing problems when I clicked on a node? 04:33:43 GmanSots [n=GmanZorz@75-110-208-166-lbbk.wtx.dyn.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:51 bfein_: It is when a node is being presented in a textual form, as is needed when a node is prompted for, that a newline was added to a single-line buffer. 04:34:32 bfein_: In all other cases where a node is presented, it was into a single-line buffer. 04:34:42 so specifying :default wasn't enough to not get prompted for a value? 04:34:56 You do get prompted. 04:34:59 that just specifies the default 04:35:12 I see 04:35:14 right, that's what you get if you hit return or something like that. 04:35:27 -!- drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:36:12 I assume there is some other way (which I'll come across eventually in the manual) to tell it "just use this value from the menu, don't prompt" 04:36:18 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@58.68.66.213] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:37:09 Yes, I think so. I don't use it very often, but I think the command in the menu can supply a (possibly partial) argument list. 04:38:00 lpolzer__ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-240-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:22 it bothers me that if you specify a translator with a gesture option in the command, the other args don't get prompted for 04:38:52 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@58.68.66.213] has joined #lisp 04:39:07 so I have to write my own fake accept for the other args in a translator if I want it to work instead of McCLIM doing the obviously useful thing 04:39:08 -!- mooglenorph [n=marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["leaving"] 04:39:18 -!- GmanSots [n=GmanZorz@75-110-208-166-lbbk.wtx.dyn.suddenlink.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:41:38 rahul: Yes, that is definitely a bug. 04:42:15 rahul: The same thing happens when you write a presentation-to-command translator and supply only some of the arguments. 04:42:20 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit ["Asta-la byebye"] 04:43:03 demmeln1 [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-041-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:37 beach: ok, but I'm doing the right thing on my end, right? 04:45:09 rahul: You mean that it ought to work the way you thought? I think so, yes. 04:45:59 -!- lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-207-193.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:46:15 ok 04:48:07 also, how do I get the presentation highlight to put a box around the whole region of a composite presentation instead of individually highlighting each of the sub-presentations? 04:48:39 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-044-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:49:20 when someone puts the mouse over *X* = 5, I want the box to go around that whole expression instead of 3 smaller boxes around each of the three parts of it 04:49:39 zhangsoft [n=zhangsof@220.249.41.133] has joined #lisp 04:49:51 rahul: present only the expression, not the components. 04:50:35 but there are other cases where I want the components to be separately selectable 04:50:48 I want the 5 to be selectable as a value by itself 04:51:15 and the *x* for when someone is typing a formula for some other variable 04:51:21 rahul: If a component is individually selectable, I think it is highlighted by default. 04:51:42 rahul: You could try to fiddle with highlight-presentation 04:51:47 ok 04:51:52 clim highlight-presentation 04:51:52 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/23-3.html#_1172 04:51:58 -!- zhangsoft [n=zhangsof@220.249.41.133] has quit [Client Quit] 04:52:08 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:52:15 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:53 kriyative [n=user@ip68-231-199-120.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:38 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp022.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:54:25 -!- konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:54:46 konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has joined #lisp 04:56:54 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:57:27 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:57:28 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:02:13 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-043-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:39 hmmm 05:02:45 *rahul* spies presentation-single-box 05:03:05 who would I tell about typos in the McClim manual? (Assuming there is someone maintaining it?) 05:03:26 bfein_: Send mail to mcclim-devel@common-lisp.net. 05:03:54 thanks 05:04:53 whaaaatt? single-box is ignored in with-output-as-presentation? 05:06:04 eugoss_ [n=eugene@75-119-252-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:06:22 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:06:51 -!- amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:07:05 -!- eugoss_ is now known as eugoss 05:07:08 oh, it uses &rest 05:07:57 score! 05:08:37 pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-145-187.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:21 -!- pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-145-187.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:13:13 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 05:13:21 rahul: Did you figure it out? 05:14:06 yeah 05:14:24 just add :single-box t to the with-output-as-presentation args 05:14:36 Great! 05:14:44 but it seems implementation specific. 05:15:46 rahul: No, the doc says that. 05:17:13 ah, yeah, there it is 05:19:32 -!- demmeln1 [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-041-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:19:46 oooo presentation-modifier 05:20:31 hmm will that do anything in mcclim yet? 05:20:56 how is one supposed to invoke the presentation-modifier? 05:21:00 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:22:09 this is actually the specific case I have where I need gesture-to-command-translators to prompt for unsupplied args 05:22:13 -!- kriyative [n=user@ip68-231-199-120.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:22:25 It looks like you pass a :modifier initarg to w-o-a-p. 05:22:38 Then you can decide how you want to invoke it. 05:24:03 Demosthenes [n=demo@host162.155.212.34.conversent.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:32 oh, it would just be something that my presentation method can access? 05:26:29 because right now, I have: 05:26:30 (define-formulate-command (com-set-variable :name "Set Variable") 05:26:30 ((name 'formulated-variable :gesture :select) 05:26:30 (new-value 'form)) 05:26:30 (eval `(setf ,name ',new-value))) 05:27:12 I could (funcall (presentation-modifier presentation) new-value) instead, I guess 05:27:36 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:45 -!- derrida [n=derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit ["rebuten."] 05:29:26 Or (setf (presentation-object name) new-value)? 05:29:47 No, wait, name is not a presentation, but a model object. 05:31:13 I think the idea with the presentation-modifier (at least in the example given) is to change whatever is returned by presentation-object when called on the presentation. 05:31:48 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:35:47 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Success] 05:35:58 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:37:44 hmm 05:38:06 beach: well, how would it get called? 05:39:54 meh, but it wouldn't work anyway 05:39:57 rahul: Whatever way you decided when you passed the function to w-o-a-p 05:40:22 beach: but there's nothing that's supposed to happen inside of CLIM to call it? 05:40:38 it's just some property of the presentation for my application's own usage? 05:41:16 It seems that way, yes. 05:42:08 it might be useful for defeditor 05:42:57 since that will be a structure editor. an editing command on a presentation of a document element there could call the presentation-modifier, which could be a closure that has a reference to the element's parent and replaces this element in that object 05:43:05 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:38 instead of making the command need to figure out how to get a reference to the element's parent 05:44:13 but... how am I supposed to get the presentation from inside a command? 05:44:24 oh, that probably doesn't make sense in general 05:44:38 I'd probably do this in a presentation-to-cmd-xlator 05:45:15 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:45:25 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:47 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:51:12 -!- eugoss [n=eugene@75-119-252-102.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:51:21 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:03 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-82-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:57:18 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.162.32] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:57:26 Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.114.159.39] has joined #lisp 05:57:35 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 06:00:20 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 06:01:29 Tordek [n=tordek@host188.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:04:05 -!- ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:04:07 nipra [n=nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 06:06:15 ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:06:41 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:09:46 franki^ [n=franki@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 06:10:28 kriyative [n=user@ip68-231-199-120.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:32 -!- colton_ [n=colton@ip72-220-44-155.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:10:34 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:16:00 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:21:42 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:44 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@58.68.66.213] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:36:35 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:36:52 hjk [n=pkt@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #lisp 06:38:23 kpreid_ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:23 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:38:33 binghe [n=binghe@60.12.227.4] has joined #lisp 06:43:37 redblue [i=star@ppp037.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:47:43 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 06:48:05 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 06:49:20 schme: should be back up now 06:51:44 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:52:49 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@58.68.66.213] has joined #lisp 06:53:11 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 06:53:41 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-043-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:02:46 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 07:05:32 dym [n=dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 07:07:30 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:07:36 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 07:09:16 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 07:09:31 -!- nipra [n=nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:11:56 nipra [n=nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 07:16:20 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229250171.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:17:51 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 07:20:00 i'm running a lisp process using detachtty. any idea how to pipe in a line as if I were typing (print "hello-world") on the REPL 07:20:15 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 07:20:30 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:21:47 Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:14 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 07:22:20 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 07:22:44 echo '(print "Hello!")' | attachtty socket ? 07:23:25 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:23:28 i.e. straightforward 07:24:06 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:26:51 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@58.68.66.213] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:26:58 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:27:26 -!- konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:29:04 good morning #lisp 07:29:10 hello madnificent 07:30:37 stassats: do you know if that should work when you are already attached to the detachtty socket from elsewhere? 07:31:25 -!- kpreid_ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:31:37 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:45 why are you asking me? can't you just test it? 07:34:15 it did not work for me and I was wondering if I did something wrong. I don't know much about unix pipes. don't worry about it 07:34:24 -!- Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 07:35:28 konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has joined #lisp 07:36:43 if you want this, use screen 07:37:19 dto1 [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:31 gonzojive: I don't know how to use detachtty, but screen works together with lisps solidly, you may want to try that out as it is only a little amount of extra overhead 07:38:55 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:39:15 screen is useful for manned operations 07:39:50 *stassats* goes back to reading about space stations 07:40:39 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06faf3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:43 good morning 07:40:58 good morning serichsen 07:41:43 *madnificent* takes a sip of coffee 07:43:16 Guthur [n=Michael@host86-136-52-94.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 07:44:17 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:45 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 07:52:18 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:53:15 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:54:39 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:54:52 good morning 07:55:18 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:57:43 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:00:45 -!- lolsuper_ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:01:12 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:01:13 lolsuper_ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 08:02:16 super__ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 08:03:40 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:05:48 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 08:06:22 madnificent: hey mad 08:08:20 hello sykopomp 08:08:29 madnificent: guess what I worked on all weekend? 08:08:47 *madnificent* checks out his github :D 08:09:15 madnificent: look at the branches. It's not merged with devel yet. 08:09:34 sykopomp: property-mop? 08:09:44 madnificent: ;) 08:11:05 sykopomp: that's a nice TODO.org btw 08:11:23 org mode is pretty great 08:12:37 sykopomp: how much mop is there right now? 08:12:45 madnificent: in devel? None. 08:12:54 sykopomp: no, in property-mop 08:13:07 once I resolve a nasty circularity, a full-fledged property MOP 08:13:30 and I think a bit of an objects mop, but that can be improved. 08:13:34 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@167.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:13:39 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:14:12 sykopomp: that should be enough to build a persistent store for it, right? 08:14:18 I believe so, yes. 08:14:32 also: anwyn is doing stuff with your code 08:14:39 yes. Horrible things. 08:14:46 O'RLY? 08:14:51 indeed 08:15:07 -!- bfein_ [n=bfein@pool-74-104-157-229.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:15:31 sykopomp: will you start working on the persistent store soon? 08:15:42 madnificent: indeed 08:15:56 will you hack on it this weekend? 08:15:58 provided non-9to5 work allows. 08:16:27 I can't really promise working on this much yet. Still lots of stuff to do at work -- very much in crunch time. 08:16:40 madnificent, we also have the beginnings of a backend for a message/reply MOP 08:16:41 nono, it's non-enforced 08:16:42 but adlaipomp got a lot done this weekend. 08:16:51 what adlai said, too. 08:16:53 Adlai: I want to toy with that too! 08:17:08 madnificent, check out reply-dispatch.lisp on devel :) 08:17:09 I'm also very insistent on having filtered dispatch built right into core. 08:17:21 it'll make the mop extremely sexy 08:17:22 *Adlai* thinks sykopomp has gone cuckoo there 08:17:24 if you have the reply mop, I'd like to hack a micro design-by-contract thingy with sheeple 08:17:58 madnificent: the MOP version of each function is named identical to the function itself. 08:18:14 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:18:19 madnificent: so if you want to write a reply for, say, direct-property-value, you'd do (defreply sheeple-mop:direct-property-value ...) 08:18:39 right now, that adds an item to the lambda-list. With filtered dispatch, though, the lambda-list will be -identical- to the regular function 08:19:24 sykopomp: cool 08:19:37 so you'd do something like (defreply sheeple-mop:direct-property-value ((object =persistent-metaobject=) property-name) (fetch-value-from-database (object-id object) property-name)) 08:19:43 -!- lolsuper_ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:19:44 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:19:56 filtered dispatch would use #'object-metaobject when figuring out how to dispatch 08:20:03 I have been thinking about metaobjects a bit, wrt sheeple, but couldn't find a real use of having extra meta-objects... there could be one though, I just didn't really find it 08:20:29 what do you mean? 08:20:47 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-xmsrvjzweckfbvim] has joined #lisp 08:21:10 nvm, I'm reading scala, I don't have a clear view 08:21:28 *madnificent* is happy with his pre-christmas present :) 08:21:42 thanks Adlai , sykopomp 08:22:31 at this rate, we might have a working mop in the next week or two >_> 08:22:39 or less or whatever 08:22:49 madnificent: we have a mailing list now, btw 08:22:58 where? how do I sign in? 08:23:00 madnificent: http://common-lisp.net/project/sheeple <-- and on clnet 08:23:49 sykopomp: the link to the PDF of slides from the talk is a broken link 08:23:58 as I just attempted to look at said slides 08:24:14 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:24:17 ianmcorvidae: ah balls. Hold on. 08:25:09 Reaver1 [n=AFLI@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:25:30 also, hello; at some point here I'll actually get back to CL programming and do something interesting :) 08:25:39 lolsuper_ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 08:25:39 ianmcorvidae: fixed :) 08:26:00 and hello :P 08:26:35 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:27:50 whoo, slides 08:29:02 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:40 sykopomp: is there some etiquette, which tells me I should introduce myself on the list? 08:29:45 s/list/lists/ 08:30:01 no 08:30:22 if you feel self-important enough to tell the memberless list who you are, do it however you wish :) 08:30:24 \o/ then I'm all set and done, ready to lurk your list 08:30:55 but if you have anything you want to ask when I'm not around, or something worth discussing with people not just on IRC, feel free to post it up there. 08:31:18 xan [n=xan@13.Red-83-36-170.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:10 -!- drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:32:14 with you going all work-crazy, I may just have to :P 08:32:26 you seem to find a lot of time to do lisp hacking though 08:32:49 not at all :\ 08:32:58 it's been a relief to work on this stuff this weekend 08:33:05 dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:09 madnificent: I was doing lisp for work last week, too. It was pretty great. 08:33:26 -!- hjk [n=pkt@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has quit ["no reason"] 08:33:29 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:33:35 I wrote the thing, my boss was "that's sweet", and he doesn't even know it was written in lisp. 08:33:40 that's the way to go, I think ;D 08:33:44 -!- dto1 [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:36:03 prxq [n=mommer@e179051143.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:36:10 sykopomp: have you told him it's not php? 08:36:11 hi 08:36:28 hello prxq 08:37:11 madnificent: I have not, no 08:37:33 I'm not particularly proud of the code, either. It's my first attempt to write code that hooks up to mysql 08:38:01 and I had to hook up to a database with a ton of tables with weird relationships 08:39:56 -!- Posterdati [n=angel@host105-223-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:40:14 Posterdati [n=angel@host105-223-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:40:25 sykopomp: I remember, but I haven't seen it 08:40:57 It's amazing how bad code can get when you have 3 days to pull off a stunt with a bunch of stuff you've never used before :P 08:41:30 -!- super__ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:42:50 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:39 sykopomp: but it's fun stuff to do! 08:45:24 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:45:37 madnificent: I kinda hate relational databases now 08:45:50 sykopomp: that's a good thing! 08:50:37 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-13285.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 08:51:13 maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:51:39 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@58.68.66.213] has joined #lisp 08:53:01 sykopomp: web based? 08:53:14 p_l: yeah 08:53:31 sykopomp: what libs did you use? 08:53:40 p_l: clsql 08:54:35 so clsql and hunchentoot? 08:54:54 or something else? (just curious) 08:56:40 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:05:09 I had to hook up to an existing LAMP setup 09:05:38 so I just used clsql, mapped the view slots to the existing tables, and then tried to squirm around the schema to get my job done. 09:09:20 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:19 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 09:12:22 -!- xan [n=xan@13.Red-83-36-170.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:19:31 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp037.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:20:22 I have a server running SLIME. what's the sanest way to send a lisp form to be evaluated from a shell script? 09:21:37 there's a swank client written in CL 09:21:39 speak slime prootocl via netcat? 09:22:27 trittweiler: i've just committed delete-system-fasls, working on reloading 09:22:50 delete-system-fasls sounds evil 09:23:52 it should, after all it's not remove-system-fasls 09:24:07 trittweiler: thanks. do you happen to know if that client is well-maintained? I see a swank-client.lisp that seems to be last-modified in 2005 09:24:27 gonzojive, the clozure people maintain one in their IDE 09:24:42 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:28:12 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 09:32:02 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 09:36:36 stassats, did you commit your slime-reload hack? 09:36:45 not yet 09:39:05 -!- kriyative [n=user@ip68-231-199-120.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:39:17 For some reason I cannot reproduce the repl-point bug at work 09:39:32 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:07 *stassats* became interested in writing netcat-slime-evaluator 09:40:38 -!- envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:40:49 why? 09:40:59 because i can! 09:45:33 xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 09:47:27 <_3b> trittweiler: did you see the stuff about presentations causing some of the repl problems? 09:47:58 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 09:48:00 I did see it, and I shared stassats sentiment of unsurprisingness :-) 09:48:33 <_3b> :) 09:49:31 rudi [n=user@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 09:49:33 slime-repl and slime-presentations need a cleanup, but so do other areas. I'm contemplating moving to qthemlock :-) 09:49:55 <_3b> heh, does that allow connecting to a remote lisp? 09:50:10 *_3b* crashes lisps too often to work in the same lisp as my editor :( 09:50:37 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:11 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 09:51:40 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:53:30 -!- binghe [n=binghe@60.12.227.4] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 2.0/20091017081335]"] 09:55:18 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 09:56:07 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 09:56:09 -!- rudi [n=user@158.223.51.72] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:56:13 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 09:56:13 rudi [n=user@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 09:57:36 _3b: Too much use of FFI? 09:59:31 dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 09:59:32 _3b, yup I think so 09:59:39 i've grown to like FFI 09:59:40 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@58.68.66.213] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:59:51 well CFFI 09:59:51 -!- dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has quit [Client Quit] 10:00:04 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-104-76.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:01:03 Guthur: Compared to a totally native Lisp solution? 10:01:46 -!- OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@219-89-89-173.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:02:06 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:02:28 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has left #lisp 10:02:33 beach: well that would be nice, not ever a reality unfortunately 10:02:52 dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 10:03:00 too many wheels to reinvent to achieve that 10:07:26 Yes. 10:07:53 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:10:09 <_3b> beach: usually, but it isn't too hard to make an image unusable without FFI too :) 10:10:48 _3b: True, existing implementations are not robust enough for that. 10:11:03 ... which is too bad. 10:11:26 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:12:00 beach: which implementation do you use 10:12:09 is it the same at the uni? 10:12:10 Guthur: SBCL 10:12:14 Guthur: Yes. 10:12:28 <_3b> it is nice to be able to reload code state without losing editor state though 10:13:10 _3b ya it would actually 10:13:15 is it possible? 10:14:10 -!- udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-xmsrvjzweckfbvim] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:14:30 <_3b> Guthur: i mean something like ,restart-inferior-lisp in slime 10:14:56 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-xhtgvitupnekrqah] has joined #lisp 10:15:00 <_3b> Guthur: would be hard to do in a setup where you were running the editor and code from same lisp image 10:15:18 ah ok 10:15:36 i must remember that, i was using ,restart 10:16:52 ,restart is the same as ,restart-inferior-lisp, Guthur 10:17:30 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:17:32 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:19:00 HG` [n=HG@xdslhf050.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:22:29 cool ,restart is fine then, i'm actually too tired to think straight at the moment, and definitely too tired to write this horrible essay i'm doing 10:22:47 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:22:59 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:29 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:23:40 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:53 _3b: It would be interesting to see what would be required from the implementation in order for it to be as little necessary as possible to restart code state, though. 10:24:00 -!- rudi [n=user@158.223.51.72] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:24:00 Error: cannot download unknown project editor-hints" 10:24:21 that's with current clbuild head 10:24:47 redblue [i=star@ppp059.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 10:24:51 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 10:25:25 <_3b> beach: i'm talking more about restarting due to user problems as opposed to implementation problems :) 10:25:46 _3b: What kind of user problems? 10:25:58 "oh god it's all weird what do I do?" 10:26:31 just reload your own code and not the entire system. 10:26:33 <_3b> right, or making sure refactorings actually recompile from scratch, etc 10:26:58 trittweiler, works for me editor-hints get_darcs http://common-lisp.net/project/editor-hints/darcs/named-readtables/ 10:27:11 reloading the entire system sounds to me like rebooting your OS, just because your C program crashed. 10:27:14 except that there are no new changes since long time ago 10:27:17 <_3b> unloading code completly sounds hard, especially if there is an editor holding onto random chunks of it for introspection 10:28:14 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:28:24 <_3b> beach: well, i guess if you had a lisp implementation that acted like an OS, that would help with the problem :) 10:28:29 marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has joined #lisp 10:28:49 _3b: That's what I meant by "what would be required from the implementation". 10:29:30 <_3b> beach: still seems like it would be easier to not duplicate host OS functionality if you are going to have a host OS 10:29:56 _3b: Who says I want a host OS? :) 10:30:09 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-khwcaaaknlxbirgr] has left #lisp 10:30:45 <_3b> beach: right, but then you are writing an OS, not a lisp implementation (even if they happen to be glued together) 10:31:06 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 10:31:08 _3b: Plus, my host OS includes restrictions that were necessary some 35 years ago, but that no longer aren't, and those restructions make it hard to program. 10:31:14 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:31:24 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jbwndygtpdhmmquj] has joined #lisp 10:31:32 <_3b> (not that i'd object to having OS features in a non-os lisp, just seems like there are other features i'd like first) 10:32:03 Fair enough. I just consider it to be my job to think about things like that. 10:32:35 *_3b* would probably dump CL too if the goal is to avoid outdated restrictions :) 10:33:05 _3b: I don't think many modifications would be necessary, but yes, technically it wouldn't be CL. 10:33:40 <_3b> possibly i'd modify more than you would, but i have odd ideas about how programming should work :) 10:34:09 -!- plage [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-101.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:34:12 oh, dear! :) 10:34:12 plage` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-101.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:34:37 schoppenhauer_ [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:34:37 -!- plage` is now known as plage 10:35:54 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:36:30 *_3b* should be trying to figure out why flash keeps breaking though, rather than thinking about hypothetical not-CLs 10:37:35 <_3b> which, coincidentally, will probably involve rebooting my OS just because my C progfram crashed :p 10:37:47 heh! 10:41:03 -!- udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-xhtgvitupnekrqah] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:41:35 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-krpsibxjrylumsmi] has joined #lisp 10:42:15 -!- udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-krpsibxjrylumsmi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:43:51 gonzojive: are you interested in simple-minded swank-lisp-form-evaluator based on netcat? 10:48:46 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:48:57 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 10:48:59 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:49:28 -!- Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@guestlaptop-24.cis.uoguelph.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:54:55 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:55:59 <_3b> nice, looks like if i run my flash app in the debug player, i can't run it in the browser after that until i reboot the system :/ 10:58:05 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:58:06 -!- schoppenhauer_ is now known as schoppenhauer 10:59:07 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:00:44 _3b, you said something about a fix for presentations for the point bug? 11:01:03 could you please show me the fix? 11:01:34 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp059.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:01:57 <_3b> weirdo: yeah, in a bit, don't have emacs up at the moment 11:02:09 great :) 11:02:40 <_3b> not completely sure it is a /good/ fix, but haven't noticed it breaking anything in the short amount i've used it :p 11:04:13 ve [n=a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:04:31 <_3b> (and it is actually intended to fix a different bug, but if not using presentations fixed your bug, it is probably the same cause) 11:07:01 _3b pasted "slime presentations patch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92071 11:07:37 <_3b> i think that fixed my problem, don't really know what stuff does to tell if it has any other side effects thuogh 11:10:37 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 11:11:25 tsuru`` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:42 -!- tsuru` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:11:47 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:11:55 redblue [i=star@ppp089.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 11:14:51 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp089.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:15:09 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:15:49 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 11:17:28 redblue [i=star@ppp089.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 11:19:57 StanleyD [i=dal@horinek.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:11 Hi everybody, is there anything like push, but the item is pushed on the end of the list? I have something like (defvar *list* '(1 (2 3) (4 5))) and I want add 6 into list, where 4 and 5 are. Something like (push-back 6 (third *list*)) 11:21:13 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@158.223.51.72] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:21:26 That would be expensive. 11:21:33 Why not do it backward? 11:21:45 Or maybe use a vector? 11:21:47 StanleyD: no. 11:21:50 -!- dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:22:13 StanleyD: one technique is to use loop/collect. another is to push things in reverse order and reverse at the end. 11:22:33 StanleyD: the nature of the list makes it expensive to find the end, unless you keep some extra track of it. 11:22:34 StanleyD: another way is to use vector-push-extend 11:22:45 ...and a vector 11:23:48 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-ouygllazmpgzwgfw] has joined #lisp 11:24:12 I have something like (lambda params body) and I need to put ":eval" at the end of body. 11:24:46 It's quoted. '(lambda ... ) 11:25:03 sounds fishy 11:25:20 indeed 11:25:42 StanleyD, `(lambda ,params ,@body :eval) 11:27:09 but why would you want to do that? 11:27:13 lichtblau, I have libsmokeqt4-dev, and trying to compile commonqt complains about "'class Smoke' has no member named 'moduleName'" 11:29:11 lichtblau, looking into /usr/include/smoke,h -- the Smoke class does indeed not have such a slot. I guess I'm lost in version nirvana. 11:29:55 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 11:30:06 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:33:09 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-148-175.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 11:36:23 attila_lendvai [n=ati@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 11:36:47 YuleAthas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:38:34 -!- konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:39:26 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:39:54 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:41:43 dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 11:42:01 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.196.70] has joined #lisp 11:44:38 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:45:25 stanleyD generating lambdas isn't much use as i have found, you can't actually use them 11:47:05 stassats`, APPENDF 11:47:06 i had a situation where i wanted something like that, what i did instead was generate a list of expressions, then looped over them in a closure, and returned that, it was during a macro expansion so ended up as the expressions unrolled 11:47:21 Guthur: oh really? 11:47:21 or NCONCF :) 11:47:33 s/stassats`/stanley0/ sorry 11:47:36 i generate lambdas and i'm ok 11:47:43 stassats' indeed i was rather surprised, they were unrolled 11:48:17 how do you get them to eval to a function 11:48:27 i couldn't figure it out 11:48:43 clhs compile 11:48:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp.htm 11:48:46 clhs coerce 11:48:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 11:48:47 (eval (let ... (lambda ... ...))) => FUNCTION 11:49:00 with out using eval 11:49:14 (compile nil `(lambda () ...)) 11:49:24 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 11:49:26 yes, except that it only works that way for null lexenv 11:56:07 tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:07 -!- tsuru`` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:56:24 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:56:27 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:59:33 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 12:02:38 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6CE38.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:24 -!- tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:03:31 tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:53 -!- Reaver1 [n=AFLI@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:06:05 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 12:06:48 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has joined #lisp 12:09:05 If I have a gf with a few eql-specializers, and I want to build one of the method on top of another one 12:09:25 should I call the (gf 'foo ...), or should I use call-next-method? 12:09:51 the first way seems to be way more dependable 12:09:54 i.e. to make (gf 'bar ...) the same as (gf 'foo ..) 12:10:29 rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-94-199.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 12:11:45 I'm kind of rusty lisp-wise now, but the concept of a precedence list doesn't even apply to eql-specializers, does it? 12:12:09 Reaver1 [n=AFLI@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 12:12:25 so how do you even know which method is "next"? 12:14:24 (well, a method that is class-specialized on 'symbol will obviously be less specific than one eql-specialized on 'foo, but that's about the only dependable piece of ordering there can be, right?) 12:15:01 bah, people probably /ignore me by now anyway :) 12:15:24 clhs 7.6.6.1.2 12:15:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_ffab.htm 12:16:10 cmm-, for a given set of arguments, the applicable methods can be sorted unambiguously 12:16:52 pjb [n=t@236.Red-88-30-107.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:56 hey guys 12:17:03 can you recommend a nice socket library? 12:17:06 if you make two methods which are "equally applicable" using eql specializers, they can't be added to the same generic function at once 12:17:08 Adlai: does it say anything specific about ordering of eql methods? 12:17:10 minion, usocket? 12:17:12 usocket: usocket is an MIT-licensed sockets networking library providing a portability layer encapsulating implementation specific sockets programming details. http://www.cliki.net/usocket 12:17:44 cmm-, yes, look at the 2nd-to-last paragraph in the page I linked 12:17:45 Adlai: ah. so it basically says "mu!" :) 12:18:12 Adlai: thanks 12:19:23 minion: iolib 12:19:24 iolib: I/O(mainly networking) library containing: a BSD sockets library, a DNS resolver and an I/O multiplexer that supports select(2), epoll(4) and kqueue(2). http://www.cliki.net/iolib 12:20:33 trittweiler, I don't understand what you're trying to do 12:21:33 Adlai: do you happen to know links to some sample code too? :) I'm looking to create a simple server.. 12:21:49 jep [n=Jorge_Pr@186.16.82.83] has joined #lisp 12:22:18 slyrus_: Excellent works like a charm. thanks :) 12:24:12 mishoo, you could try looking at the source code of some of the CL web servers, or of Drakma (an HTTP client library) 12:25:51 drakma doesn't create servers, or does it? 12:26:35 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-148-175.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:29:53 -!- dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has quit ["leaving"] 12:30:20 dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 12:31:06 -!- tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:33:45 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.132.130] has joined #lisp 12:35:58 -!- jep [n=Jorge_Pr@186.16.82.83] has left #lisp 12:36:40 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 12:36:51 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:37:00 -!- nipra [n=nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:41:10 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:41:18 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 12:42:40 addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:56 ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:35 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has joined #lisp 12:46:33 hello 12:47:02 -!- fe[nl]ix changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ECL 9.12.3, SBCL 1.0.33 12:50:26 nowherman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:26 -!- nowhereman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:51:34 nipra [n=nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 12:54:37 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:54:43 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.132.130] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:55:33 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:57:43 nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:19 -!- pjb [n=t@236.Red-88-30-107.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:12:12 -!- nowherman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:15:38 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 13:18:30 -!- lpolzer__ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-240-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:19:37 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:21:24 hello fe[nl]ix 13:21:30 hi beach 13:21:37 are you going to london ? 13:23:10 Nope. Too busy. What about you? 13:23:35 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslhf050.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:24:00 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@85.125.183.36] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:24:18 me neither 13:24:36 i am also not in london 13:24:40 -!- Reaver1 [n=AFLI@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:25:20 right, there are so many places i'm not in now that it's even mind-boggling ;) 13:25:28 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-043-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:34 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:58 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:26:25 (complement your-disposition) 13:26:43 yes, an infinite set 13:26:53 -!- addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:27:00 stassats`: You have to turn that into a singleton set in order to take the complement. 13:27:53 cl's complement works on functions 13:28:58 and it returns true or false 13:29:11 i mean, the function 13:29:50 right, you can then filter with it the set of all locations 13:30:04 yes, the infinite set. 13:30:08 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6CE38.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 13:30:10 that's good science! 13:30:16 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 13:30:40 we can restrict it to the cities and towns 13:30:53 that's too easy 13:31:04 ok, add villages 13:31:08 "loser talk", as some might say 13:31:47 (i'm quoting an episode from weebl's stuff here :) 13:32:16 http://www.weebls-stuff.com/onthemoon/On+The+Moon+ep.17/ if anybody cares 13:32:45 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@158.223.51.72] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:35:56 jonathanturner [n=jonathan@n156s125.ntc.blacksburg.shentel.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:58 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:38 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:38:16 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host86-136-52-94.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 13:42:29 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp089.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 13:43:23 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:44:38 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@host162.155.212.34.conversent.net] has quit ["leaving"] 13:48:19 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:48:58 kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 13:49:05 good afternoon 13:51:01 tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:23 Reaver1 [n=AFLI@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:53:10 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:53:33 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:35 ryepup1 [n=ryepup@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:56:21 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:58:50 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 13:59:42 hi, what's the difference between (defpackage :foo (:export :bar)) vs. (defpackage :foo (:export #:bar)) ? 13:59:58 none 14:00:12 thanks 14:00:20 egn: the latter might maybe possibly make a keyword symbol stick around in the keyword package 14:00:24 sorry, the former, i mean 14:00:37 Xach: darn, you type fast 14:01:01 You could also consider "BAR" 14:01:30 Xach: sorry, could you explain "stick around in the keyword package"? 14:01:31 even faster than I think 14:01:37 davazp [n=user@79.Red-79-159-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:40 or bar 14:01:42 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:01:47 egn: Do you understand what 'interning' means? 14:01:56 Zhivago: yeah 14:02:05 egn: when :bar is read by the reader, it is interned in the keyword package 14:02:16 egn: :bar interns a symbol into the KEYWORD package. 14:02:23 egn: when #:bar is read, it is not 14:02:42 Zhivago: Xach: ok, thanks 14:03:22 clhs #: 14:03:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhe.htm 14:04:39 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:48 G'morning all. 14:04:55 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.23.63] has joined #lisp 14:05:04 hi nyef 14:05:13 hi nyef. are you going to the meeting today? 14:05:38 "FOO" doesn't get interned, but can have exciting interactions with the readtable. 14:05:49 Xach: The one in the boston area? Certainly planning on it. 14:06:29 -!- udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-ouygllazmpgzwgfw] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:06:32 *nyef* is, unfortunately, not going to the meeting in the london area today or tomorrow. 14:06:32 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-171-66.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:06:33 inconveniently scheduled against SBCL10 14:07:00 i could only choose one not to attend, so i will be missing boston. 14:07:19 Good morning nyef. 14:07:39 Clearly, we need to invent time machines. 14:08:05 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:16 they've already been invented in the future 14:08:30 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:38 Ah! So all we have to do is arrange for someone (possibly us) to drop one off for us to use now! 14:08:56 ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:11 nyef: if you said that and it did not appear next to you then it means they have not been invented in the future? 14:09:28 No, things could have gone wrong with the arrangements instead. 14:09:31 or that they're not reading irc logs 14:09:59 *nyef* checks. 14:09:59 yes, even our efforts to preserve the logs from now on would be fruitless 14:10:08 Nope, all these time machines here are forward-only. 14:10:22 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:11:02 *stassats`* only can time-travel into the future by drinking too much 14:12:04 it's not time-travel but time-skipping i think 14:12:27 feels the same 14:15:11 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.161.165] has joined #lisp 14:15:17 we may never know the truth. 14:15:29 Hello Krystof. 14:15:33 hi 14:15:38 only a couple of things have gone wrong so far! 14:15:41 oh look, someone's here to gloat! 14:15:45 Cool. 14:15:53 there is also the general sound of people hacking 14:15:55 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:16 whee, sbcl10 14:17:06 Should I take this opportunity to check in a couple of untested changes in various places to see if it trips anyone up? 14:17:17 swathanthran [n=user@117.204.83.79] has joined #lisp 14:17:51 it would confirm there's actual hacking going on 14:18:24 mikezor [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:19:17 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:20:35 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 14:20:53 marze [n=marcelin@168.Red-83-61-243.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:17 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:17 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:17 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:17 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-29-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:17 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:17 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:17 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:17 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:17 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:17 -!- qebab [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:17 -!- hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:17 -!- lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:22:28 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-29-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:22:36 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jbwndygtpdhmmquj] has left #lisp 14:22:59 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:23:03 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:23:43 -!- nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:43 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:43 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:44 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:44 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:44 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-82-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:44 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:44 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-197-242.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:44 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:44 -!- albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:44 -!- rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:44 -!- lupine_85 [n=quassel@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:45 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:45 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:23:45 -!- ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:24:37 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:35 lupine_85 [n=quassel@lupine.me.uk] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 qebab [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 14:26:24 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 14:26:27 nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:46 getha [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 14:27:09 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 14:27:35 robewald_ [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:42 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:42 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-197-242.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:42 -!- robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:27:48 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Broken pipe] 14:27:50 -!- johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:27:51 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 14:27:52 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 14:27:55 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 14:27:59 zoldar [n=zoldar@kyh66.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:28:01 -!- qebab [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:28:05 qebab [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 14:29:20 -!- dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:29:27 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 14:29:53 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has quit ["Valete!"] 14:31:32 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:32:18 -!- xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:34:56 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-fadldovokdhbcgvb] has joined #lisp 14:36:28 fiveop_ [n=fiveop@e179164040.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:37:06 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:37:34 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest99739 14:37:42 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 14:37:54 -!- udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-fadldovokdhbcgvb] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:38:04 -!- Guest99739 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 14:39:07 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 14:39:21 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-bzvywpvfblrkewdr] has joined #lisp 14:39:51 I am slightly surprised that there aren't more sbcl10 people here 14:40:27 -!- Reaver1 [n=AFLI@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:40:45 -!- marze [n=marcelin@168.Red-83-61-243.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:40:52 in london? 14:40:55 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:41:03 in #lisp? 14:41:26 marcelinollano [n=marcelin@168.Red-83-61-243.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:05 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:43:34 Krystof: are you in London at SBCL10? 14:44:16 -!- cYmen [n=cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 14:44:54 addled [n=adl@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:03 -!- addled [n=adl@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:47:29 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:48:10 -!- udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-bzvywpvfblrkewdr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:48:52 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229250171.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:49:12 kami: Krystof is in London -running- SBCL10. 14:51:06 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 14:53:24 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:53:31 in #lisp, yes 14:53:41 it's now mostly self-running 14:53:41 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-einhfecvxligsksb] has joined #lisp 14:54:00 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-168-140.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:08 <_3b> hmm, i guess killing random daemons without knowing what they do might not be the best debugging strategy :p 14:54:29 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:54:30 the linux kernel will do that for you automatically 14:56:19 -!- drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:56:47 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:00 Xach: So, will I see you tonight at the boston lisp meeting and book swap? 15:00:18 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 15:00:58 Krystof: sorry. Couldn't relate the irc nick to the real name. 15:02:43 hm, when I define a recursive method (ie. FOO), I get a warning of: "caught STYLE-WARNING: undefined function FOO", but when I define a recursive function I don't get that warning. any reason for this? 15:03:30 What happens if you use defgeneric? 15:04:13 dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 15:04:41 benny` [n=benny@i577A111D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:06:15 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 15:06:44 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:06 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:08:11 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:31 attila_lendvai [n=ati@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 15:09:05 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 15:10:39 Zhivago: it goes away, thanks 15:10:42 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11:29 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1A4B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11:53 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 15:12:06 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:12:10 galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-44-88.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:12:44 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Boot me gently"] 15:12:56 -!- benny` is now known as benny 15:13:15 sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:14:05 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@250-196.swlan.wu-wien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 15:18:35 rmsc [n=rmsc@a85-139-194-125.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 15:19:41 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f755851.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:09 milanj [n=milan@93.87.194.55] has joined #lisp 15:20:55 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:24:37 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:25:36 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-17-232.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:25:41 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-043-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:26:43 ch3oh [i=ozz2@sign.io] has joined #lisp 15:27:05 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-29-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:27:19 xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:31 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:08 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:29:40 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:29:44 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:32:17 -!- ch3oh [i=ozz2@sign.io] has left #lisp 15:33:51 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:33 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 15:35:54 konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has joined #lisp 15:37:11 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 15:38:22 ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-25-151.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:40:56 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:48:20 Spaghett1ni [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:17 *sigh* 15:50:14 beach: Trouble? 15:50:26 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:50:53 nyef: Nah, just spent all day answering admin-related email. I am getting reddy to quit that so as to have *some* intellectually-stimulating activity today. 15:52:02 We start our programming-project course for the third-year undergraduates beginning of january, so we need to make sure the environment is OK. This time, we are going to introduce clbuild. 15:52:09 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-98-204-67-114.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 15:52:23 Ouch. 15:52:40 Why? 15:52:54 And the accounting program I wrote is meant to be improved by the students. 15:53:03 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 15:53:08 Spending a day on admin tasks is painful, and I'm not a great fan of clbuild. 15:53:28 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:33 nyef: What do you not like about it? 15:53:47 -!- marcelinollano [n=marcelin@168.Red-83-61-243.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:54:16 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:54:25 nyef: clbuild makes our lives easier. We have decided that we didn't just want to give them a pre-installed environment, but we also want to show them what to do at home. Then clbuild is handy. 15:54:38 mas01dl [n=dlewis@158.223.51.75] has joined #lisp 15:55:09 I just really don't like the idea of pulling everything from upstream source control as an install method. 15:55:42 I realize that that's the situation we have now, and it's the only thing that has a chance of working in the short-term, but it still isn't right. 15:55:59 It turned out to be challenging though to use clbuild on the sparc/solaris machines of the engineering school (yet another programming project class I participate in) because darcs has no binaries for solaris, and having to install the Glasgow Haskell Compiler from source would have been to painful. 15:56:03 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 15:56:15 ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:56:27 nyef: Yes, I understand your objection. 15:56:32 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest12930 15:57:11 IMO the worst thing about the clbuild model is needing every vcs 15:57:32 apt-get / rpm is your friend. I don't see the problem. 15:57:35 there could be, say, a proxy server that clbuild contacted to perform the doenloads for it 15:57:36 -!- Guest12930 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 15:57:41 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:57:42 (except for darcs being dog slow, of course) 15:57:48 -!- mas01dl [n=dlewis@158.223.51.75] has left #lisp 15:57:54 tic: see what beach just said. installs aren't trivial 15:57:58 Hm. 15:58:01 even moreso on many non-linux platforms 15:58:04 <_3b> tic: and except for limiting yourself to systems with apt/rpm :p 15:58:13 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:58:25 point. I don't use anything but Linux. 15:58:31 kpreid: especially darcs... Especially given that wget can pull from the repo. 15:58:36 rather, systems with the right repositories 15:58:53 tic: Right, and it so happens that the sysadmins at the engineering school have decided to use sparc/solaris instead. 15:59:00 <_3b> mirroring through something like git would be nice though, always annoying when i want to see history of something and find out it was pulled from cvs or svn :/ 15:59:29 tic: It is a real catastrophe, and I point that out as frequently as I possibly can. 16:01:11 nyef: afraid not 16:01:11 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:01:18 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:46 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:02:43 Xach: Ah well. Maybe January? 16:03:14 speaking as a part-time language/platform designer, I wish there was a nice answer to installation of dependencies that didn't work out to "leave it to the platform and hope they have a package manager" or "roll your own completely" 16:03:17 because the first is painful for mac/windows and the second is painful for administrative permissions and such issues 16:04:02 nyef: a possibility, yeah 16:05:18 -!- Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:05:18 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:52 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:08:59 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:09:40 beach, alright. 16:11:52 -!- Spaghett1ni [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Success] 16:14:42 Greetings, I just started reading Structure and interpretations of Computer Programs. Seems like a really well written book and although I have never used Lisp before, I plan on learning the language now. 16:14:46 About the system installation problem. Perhaps it would be worth the money to hire someone in Vietnam to maintain snapshots of all the stuff we need and then make them (say) asdf-installable. The salary of a full-time person there is very low, so I am sure if some people were willing to put in a small amount of money each, then that could be an option. 16:15:01 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:15:03 galaxywatcher: Excellent idea. 16:15:26 galaxywatcher: Though, you should know that the language used in that book is Scheme, and this channel is more into Common Lisp. 16:15:29 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:16:00 beach: Ok. I will keep that in mind. 16:16:46 galaxywatcher: And this means that if you come here for questions, you might be pointed to #scheme, which (as I understand) is *very* quiet compared to #lisp. 16:18:33 beach: I will be sure to ask appropriate #lisp questions and be sensitive to the channels unwritten rules. 16:19:32 galaxywatcher: You wouldn't typically be eaten alive here, but you might get some "dry" answers like I said, like "#scheme is *that* ---> way". 16:19:52 Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:04 ... You know what might be useful? A short article on "what you need to know if you're planning on working through SICP in Common Lisp." 16:20:16 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@250-196.swlan.wu-wien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:20:28 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-13285.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20:42 nyef: sounds like a good blog project. Bloject? 16:20:44 Which mostly boils down to define -> defun / defvar / defparameter, #' and funcall, and that TCO is not guaranteed. 16:21:11 Someone already did it in their blog, IIRC. 16:21:11 and set! -> setf 16:21:22 I think Eli Bendersky did it. 16:21:26 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:21:52 http://eli.thegreenplace.net/category/programming/lisp/sicp/ in fact 16:22:37 maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 rajesh [n=rajesh@cpe-74-68-132-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 rotty_ [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-82-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 Taggnostr [n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:22:56 Xach: thanks for the pointer. 16:23:34 I am a bit doubtful though. When I read SICP, OOP was new, and SICP gives a very nice explanation of message passing and data hiding, but the kids today typically know Java, have had training in abstraction and OOP, so perhaps it is not as good anymore? 16:24:20 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:32 Shakespeare isn't good anymore too 16:24:43 I see your point. 16:24:44 stassats`: All those cliches, right? 16:24:44 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:05 -!- rajesh is now known as Guest95344 16:25:39 I might be totally wrong though, but since I moved to CL, the programming methods of SICP just seem so rusty. But that is of course not a good reason not to start with SICP. 16:26:10 The writing is very inspiring. I can't comment on the technical details yet. 16:26:41 galaxywatcher: Do you already know some programming and some other programming languages? 16:26:47 it provides a good insight that programs could be written differently from 100-lines spaghetti functions 16:26:54 (notice the difference) 16:27:42 beach: yes. Perl, Python, unix shell programming 16:27:44 stassats`: Yeah, maybe it's just my memory of its greatness that is fading. 16:28:15 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-47-83.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 16:28:17 it's visible in contrast, sure 16:28:17 galaxywatcher: Hmm, yes, I see. 16:28:22 any idea which implementation can compile on armel? (eg. nokia n900) 16:28:32 udzinari: clisp 16:28:57 ecl 16:28:59 gcl 16:29:09 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:29:18 udzinari: basically, look at which debian packages exist 16:29:28 Perlis waxes poetic at times. Last line of the forward: "We toast the Lisp programmer who pens his thoughts within nests of parentheses." 16:29:52 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 16:30:24 clisp is probably best on a machine like that, unless you absolutely need ECL's deployment model 16:30:44 Based on what Perlis is saying, my training with linguistics may be more valuable learning Lisp then my computer programming background. 16:31:01 galaxywatcher: that's not poetic (i've seen writings with lots of parentheses (on usenet (for example))) 16:31:44 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:31:56 stassats`, Krystof, hefner thanks, will try to compile clisp then.. general googling didn't give much hope, but try is a try 16:32:21 udzinari, http://clisp.cons.org 16:32:27 stassats`: The elision of Perlis' line made me smile 16:32:32 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-230-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:15 If you have a development toolchain on a real arm processor, compiling clisp ought to just work. It may not work on qemu (I haven't tried it in a few years) 16:33:16 udzinari: or just get the debian package, surely? 16:34:08 with clc and stuff? 16:34:16 Krystof: sane idea :D 16:34:25 Nokia's distro is not _exactly_ debian, is it? 16:34:29 pretty close 16:34:35 ah 16:34:43 AIUI, anyway 16:34:57 *luis* is compiling two SBCLs at the same time hoping one of them will in fact compile successfully. 16:34:58 -!- nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:35:00 clc is relatively harmless these days, as in there's hardly and "and stuff" with it 16:35:07 *any 16:35:28 luis: tell me if you want a login on an 8-core linux/x86-64. 16:35:51 No reactions to my vietnamese-system-maintainer idea? 16:36:12 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@250-196.swlan.wu-wien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 16:36:21 who's gonna pay? 16:36:37 actualy there is no package for armel, only for arm 16:36:39 luis: Did you ever look at my CFFI patch? (I've been distracted by other things) 16:36:56 <_3b> ah, apparently flash debug player grabs some shared memory segment and leaves that laying around, at a slightly diffeerent size than the browser player expects 16:37:15 -!- Guest95344 [n=rajesh@cpe-74-68-132-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:37:41 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 16:37:52 sellout: I did yeah, looks good. I'll get to it eventually. :) 16:38:07 luis: Cool, thanks :) 16:38:14 _3b: Now that you know, you should be able to kill the segment without rebooting, right? 16:38:33 stassats`: We can get a person half-time for 300EUR/month. I am willing to put up half that if others are willing to share the rest, and if some others accept some handholding, at least initially. 16:38:35 <_3b> nyef: i'd hope so, once i figure out how to do that sort of thing :) 16:38:50 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:38:50 <_3b> nyef: trying to use both at once will probably still be a hassle though 16:38:57 -!- kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:39:00 Yeah, that probably won't work. 16:39:30 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:39:47 Hmm, anyone know offhand the approximate release date of AllegroCL 8.1? 16:39:54 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:39:58 stassats`: I would take care of the technical details of paying the person, etc. 16:40:05 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:41:26 stassats`: I am guessing that within a year, the situation would be much improved. 16:41:44 beach: maintainer for what? 16:41:51 beach: i see 16:41:53 p_l: CL systems. 16:42:16 i'm currently satisfied with the present situation 16:42:17 p_l: mutually-compatible, perhaps asdf-installable snapshots. 16:42:44 Axius [n=ade@92.85.20.176] has joined #lisp 16:43:20 stassats`: personally, I am too, but I also recognize that this is not the case for some newbies, and so in order to make things a bit more widely available, that might be a worthwhile effort (to some). 16:43:33 *p_l* was actually planning an automated tool for that 16:43:38 I even got some hosting 16:43:48 I'd recommend not using asdf-install. Perhaps a compatible interface, but not something so easily hijacked, and not something so reliant on GPG. 16:43:50 I just need to write the CL app :) 16:43:58 beach: It seems like many people are working in parallel on ideas regarding the problem 16:44:09 beach: have you considered libCL? 16:44:13 beach: I have my own ideas, p_l and deepfire and Daniel Herring and others seem to be working on things, etc 16:44:20 seems to be exactly what you are looking for, in theory 16:44:23 Xach: Yet for quite some time, I haven't seen any acceptable results. 16:44:35 <_3b> 'reliant on gpg' doesn't sound too bad, as long as it is less reliant on large #s of random hard to find keys 16:44:44 cmm-: All I have considered is to pay someone to fix the problem. 16:44:51 well, my system would easily work together with an external maintainer, all it would need would be a git (or some other DVCS) repo that would be tagged by the maintainer, one repo per project 16:44:52 beach: yes, nothing has quite achieved the popularity of asdf-install or clbuild 16:45:09 beach: you may want to talk to Daniel Herring (the libCL author) then 16:45:19 beach: still, I'm glad that there is not a fully accepted consensus that "there is no problem and nobody should bother with it" 16:45:21 cmm-: Why would I want to do that? 16:45:53 beach: because libCL seems to be pretty much what you are looking for - a maintained set of snapshots 16:46:16 cmm-: I personally think it is an uninteresting problem, which is why I am suggesting paying someone. But if it is already done, why aren't we all using it? 16:46:31 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:46:40 inertia? 16:46:45 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.85.20.176] has quit [Client Quit] 16:46:48 cmm-: And what happens when Daniel Herring gets tired of this? 16:46:55 beach: I dunno. I'll try it as soon as clbuild breaks horribly for me 16:47:24 beach: i think it is a combination of feature completeness (does it do exactly what *I* want?), public relations (many have not heard of the various projects), and inertia 16:47:34 cmm-: In situations like this, I rely on #lisp. So what is everybody's experience with libCL? 16:47:36 beach: the sources are available and nicely organized, things in general do seem to be geared towards communal maintainance. theory, theory 16:47:56 I started working on the snapshot thing due to fighting with non-unix systems (and OSX) where I might not have the time/patience to build everything needed for clbuild 16:48:55 cmm-: So perhaps what I am suggesting is complementary to libCL, in that instead of relying on a "community" that doesn't exist, we would pay a half-time person to *be* that community. 16:49:02 schme: glad to hear it 16:49:57 cmm-: For what it's worth, I think a half-time person (when operational) could make a *huge* difference, and the cost would be reasonable if spread out a bit. 16:49:59 slyrus_: blog up? 16:50:13 beach: is "we" Bordeaux? 16:50:31 Xach: yes. we had some big storms here and the power went out long enough to drain the UPS on saturday night. 16:50:35 beach: Or is it the community that doesn't exist? ;) 16:50:59 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:51:19 sellout: Not quite. I suggested paying 150EUR/month myself and solliciting the remaining 150EUR from others who also don't have time to do this themselves, but who are bothered by the current situation. 16:51:33 rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:39 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 16:51:55 *Xach* is reminded of Rich Hickey's recent email requesting $100/year/user for work on clojure 16:51:58 sellout: Perhaps you would consider the half-a-dozen or so people willing to do that a "community", which is fine with me. 16:52:06 Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:41 But I realize I am a bit extreme when it comes to preferring to pay others to do what I don't like, as opposed to doing it myself. 16:53:44 *cmm-* thinks that at the current size and fragmentedness of the "community" or whatever, any effort to fund something will simply result in more abandonware down the line 16:54:02 cmm-: Oh, how so? 16:54:21 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:54:24 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:45 the only way things seem to work around here is by attracting the mindshare or a handful of people :) 16:55:08 cmm-: What makes you think that is "working"? 16:55:21 ...which people would probably not be critically motivated by 300EUR a month, but what do I know 16:55:36 <_3b> yay, i can run my flash stuff again, only wasted a few days on that :/ 16:55:37 beach: sbcl is clearly working 16:55:55 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:05 beach: clbuild is too, though it is a flawed design 16:56:21 cmm-: All I am saying is that there are tasks that attract people and other tasks that don't. If we could pay someone to do the tasks that don't attract people, the others could concentrate on the attractive ones. 16:56:51 howdy! Has any cool hack leaked through sbclton? 16:56:59 we're about to have lightning talks 16:57:04 Ooh. 16:57:09 Still no video? 16:57:16 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:22 I'd say outright that I'd happily work on such stuff if I got some money - my main block towards working on any project, mine, community or whatever for now is exactly that 16:57:39 and I was planning to work on "distribution problem" anyway 16:57:40 beach: if there is someone who is willing to maintain all the tangle of current libraries and take shit from users for 300EUR a month, well, I guess that would be cool 16:57:41 ;-) 16:57:51 -!- Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:58:05 p_l: Thanks for confirming that. However, you are too expensive for my available budget. 16:58:43 cmm-: Let me assure you that there would be quite a few people in Vietnam willing to do that. 16:58:47 someone needs to convince Clozure to fund it with their free ITA money :) 16:58:56 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:59:06 beach: 300EUR/month for part-time work? sure fits me :P 16:59:19 p_l: define "part"! :) 16:59:20 I suspect that the reason I'm not more bothered by the whole distribution thing is that I have yet to need more than about three libraries on any kind of a regular basis, and that's easy enough to manage myself. 16:59:53 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.23.63] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:59:55 nyef: You are of course not the target audience of such an effort, which I am sure you know. 17:00:08 nyef: you may be subconciously shying away from dependencies and rationalizing it away 17:00:15 beach: 20h/week? maybe more? I know that I need to hit a target of around £500/month, this would fit half the bill 17:00:18 *foot 17:00:47 400e/month are tax-free in Germany :-) 17:00:57 Hi, would anyone know what does :reader in a slot definition of class do? 17:01:01 I currently make a living from that 17:01:15 cmm-: Subconciously? I think not. Find the dependencies, and eliminate them! 17:01:23 Something like (defclass (whatever) (someting :reader whatever)) ...? 17:01:30 Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:30 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:01:32 Geralt [n=Geralt@vpn-cl-161-182.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 17:01:42 nyef: because they are ugly! 17:01:43 define a method for reading a slot value 17:01:43 StanleyD: It defines a method that returns the value of a given slot when passed an instance of the class. 17:01:49 defines 17:01:56 p_l: If you are willing to work half time for 300EUR/month, then I would definitely pitch in half of that. 17:01:58 Guthur [n=Michael@host86-136-52-94.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:05 clhs defclass 17:02:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm 17:02:10 StanleyD: ^ 17:03:02 p_l: In fact, if you are willing to work ¼ time for 150EUR/month, you can start tomorrow. 17:03:03 p_l: Uh better recommend the relevant chapters in Practical Common Lisp 17:03:51 p_l: I read that, but wasn't sure. 17:04:12 nyef: Thanks for clarifing :) 17:04:35 tcr: I guess we need to make an updated variant of l1sp.org 17:04:56 p_l: to index :reader? 17:05:07 what's wrong with http://l1sp.org/pcl/defclass ? 17:05:07 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:05:08 ah, no we don't. There's PCL already 17:05:17 Xach: I missed PCL on the list 17:05:23 hee hee 17:06:13 in return for that service, can you tell me what www.wykop.pl is? 17:06:15 so we only need "specbot: pcl defclass" to work 17:06:33 Xach: wait a while, I'll give an answer 17:06:50 (I'm not really acquaintained(sp?) with polish internet) 17:07:07 ... looks like a variant of Digg 17:07:19 swathanthran [n=user@117.204.83.79] has joined #lisp 17:07:20 ok, thanks. they have linked to one of my lisp-powered amusements. 17:07:31 p_l: is it a pun on "dug up"? (going by Russian here, so might be completely off) 17:08:03 cmm-: wykop? possibly 17:08:16 though it's not the first association that came to my mind 17:08:22 rares1 [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:32 -!- rares1 [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 17:08:54 reads like Russian "", see 17:09:15 ... right, it's a pun on "dug up" - I can confirm it by "wykopalisko" (means "excavation") 17:09:47 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:53 yay for heuristic knowledge 17:10:14 could we get the bot to return links through l1sp.org? ;) 17:10:37 do we need to? 17:10:59 nunb_ [n=nundan@94.161.185.102] has joined #lisp 17:11:22 Modifying the bot is... possible. Tricky if we're going to do a web lookup, though, as doing it wrong leads to fd leaks. 17:11:41 it only adds another point of failure 17:17:00 TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:00 dnolen [n=dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:17:23 heh 17:20:53 rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:21:16 -!- davazp [n=user@79.Red-79-159-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:21:46 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:23:36 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:27:24 swathant` [n=user@117.204.83.79] has joined #lisp 17:27:32 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 17:28:08 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:28:21 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:28:27 -!- swathant` is now known as swathanthran 17:29:02 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [] 17:29:14 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:29:48 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:00 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 17:33:53 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:46 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:39:51 -!- xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:39:52 Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 17:43:33 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@158.223.51.72] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:47:18 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:47:31 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:18 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 17:48:24 freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:48:24 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:52:05 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@158.223.51.72] has quit [Client Quit] 17:52:37 -!- Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:52:55 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B689.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:20 -!- nunb_ [n=nundan@94.161.185.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:59 0 17:56:01 -!- dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has quit ["leaving"] 17:56:10 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 17:56:15 dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has joined #lisp 17:59:20 So, lightning talks over yet, or is there another half-hour or so to go? 18:00:14 over. now we drink, and then we go to dinner 18:00:59 or, just possibly, we get bogged down in attempts to resurrect fu-streams 18:01:02 dan_b: Good to see you here. 18:01:37 (which is infintely more productive than trying to figure out what happend to asdf in the five years I turned my back on it) 18:02:05 dan_b: Not much, I would imagine. 18:02:29 People started using and abusing it? 18:02:37 dinner, I'll be back later. 18:02:37 something like that 18:03:16 http://fare.livejournal.com/149264.html # I think this is quite recent 18:04:43 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:07:14 clhs unread-char 18:07:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_unrd_c.htm 18:07:41 yeah, it's pretty recent 18:07:46 -!- trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:08:04 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 18:10:35 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-26-86-53.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:11:28 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:12:39 I'm having trouble finding the relevant place in the sbcl manual on how to handle something like control-c. Best I've found so far is *exit-hook*... 18:13:33 sykopomp|work: install a signal handler for SIGINT 18:13:47 sykopomp|work: do you want the REPL at all? 18:15:15 dlowe: not sure how to do that. 18:16:50 dlowe: sb-sys:enable-interrupt sb-unix:sigint (lambda ...)? 18:17:22 sykopomp|work: you'd be better off using sb-posix 18:18:09 if you don't want a REPL, I'd suggest switching the terminal to uncooked mode and handling the input char-by-char 18:19:01 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@250-196.swlan.wu-wien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:19:02 -!- rahul [rjain@clozure-6C5C827B.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 18:19:38 swathant` [n=user@117.204.81.84] has joined #lisp 18:19:42 kenanbolukbasi [n=Kenan@88.238.40.101] has joined #lisp 18:21:22 TJohn [i=as@114-45-224-212.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:39 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.194.55] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:21:40 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:21:43 -!- swathant` is now known as swathanthran 18:22:02 -!- TJohn [i=as@114-45-224-212.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:23:13 TJohn [i=as@114-45-224-212.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:39 -!- TJohn [i=as@114-45-224-212.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:12 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c156-35.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:24:46 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.161.165] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:25:13 TJohn [i=as@114-45-224-212.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:27 rahul: why? 18:26:33 dlowe: thanks a bunch 18:27:11 -!- TJohn [i=as@114-45-224-212.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:27:37 sykopomp|work: because then you get to process it yourself, heh 18:27:49 but if this way works, then it's the right way 18:27:50 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-yerbobdtkxqlaysk] has joined #lisp 18:27:52 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@158.223.51.72] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:27:59 TJohn [i=as@114-45-224-212.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:05 rahul, I think sykopomp|work wants to deal with SIGINT, not ^C 18:28:28 -!- TJohn [i=as@114-45-224-212.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:28:31 -!- NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-43-82-249-159-177.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:28:37 Adlai: yeah, just giving him he options so he knows what's possible 18:29:06 sykopomp|work: also, check SIGSTOP, which is C-\, I think 18:29:11 TJohn [i=as@114-45-224-212.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:14 er SIGQUIT 18:29:14 SIGSTOP is C-z 18:29:30 yeah 18:29:33 I don't think you can capture it, though 18:29:40 probably not 18:29:44 enable-interrupt wfm :) 18:30:05 what has become of the channel!? discussing unix signals? please, there is only one kind of #'SIGNAL in this channel! 18:30:47 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-53-82-65-12-180.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:01 extraterrestrial signal? 18:32:03 (signal 'phone-home) 18:32:47 but who was phone? 18:33:24 -!- dan_b [n=dan@158.223.51.72] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:33:32 weirdo [n=sthalik@c156-35.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:35:58 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-zrtrhkmoqsjngoin] has quit [] 18:35:58 smithzv [n=smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:00 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-cgxztqozmkaqqyim] has joined #lisp 18:36:00 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-cgxztqozmkaqqyim] has quit [Client Quit] 18:37:03 swathant` [n=user@117.204.81.23] has joined #lisp 18:37:14 Yeah, SIGSTOP is uncatchable, AFAIK. 18:39:13 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:39:16 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:39:23 -!- swathant` is now known as swathanthran` 18:39:38 -!- swathanthran` is now known as swathanthran 18:40:24 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:40:35 nyef: yeah... there's a table of the allowable sig actions for each singal, but I can't find the man page it's on 18:40:36 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:10 jgracin [n=jgracin@vipnet101-86.mobile.CARNet.hr] has joined #lisp 18:41:30 oh, it's just listed below the table of signals in signal(7) 18:41:48 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@219-89-104-76.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:41:52 -!- TJohn [i=as@114-45-224-212.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:42:27 skeptomai [n=cb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:06 beach: Remind me again...you living in vietnam or just outsourcing some coding there? Are they doing anything that profits you yet or are you still paying them to learn? 18:45:37 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:45:47 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:45:55 Axius [n=ade@92.84.22.124] has joined #lisp 18:48:54 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:50:33 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:50:41 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-82-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:52:39 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-104-76.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:53:30 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@158.223.51.72] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:58:37 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:59:32 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-26-86-53.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:00:45 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-090-083.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:00:59 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:19 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:01:30 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d86-33-115-65.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 19:01:58 jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-28-3-168.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:02:45 i was thinking, since people who starts lisp recently are usually worried about the understanding of an IDE in Lisp community, which is Emacs + SLIME (and i think it is superb btw), maybe an emacs customization to make it more fancy for the newbie users would be a nice think to do, in fact as we know when someone get used to emacs, a toolbar usually turns into rubbish, but just maybe things like a toolbar consisting of most frequently used slime command 19:03:40 how about a popup paperclip that helpfully reminds them, "It looks like you're writing a DEFUN. Press C-c C-c to compile it." 19:03:48 yes! 19:03:55 heh 19:04:26 hefner: in fact that's a brilliant idea 19:04:29 heh 19:04:52 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32EDE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:59 tessier: I live in Bordeaux. We have a masters program in Vietnam. I am paying them to learn, which profits me. 19:05:03 kenanbolukbasi: there's slime menu 19:05:32 "It looks like you want to delete a sexp backwards. Press M-C-Backspace to do so." 19:05:59 boo 19:06:28 that's a variation on the classic IRC trick of /notice #lisp You have new mail! Type /sign mail to read it 19:06:38 (or Alt-F4, depending on the decade...) 19:08:05 *nyef* has actually killed his X server that way a few times, being involved in some editing task and hitting kill-sexp-backwards before he remembers that it's also kill-X-server-backwards. 19:08:08 kenanbolukbasi, perhaps just a ready-to-go slime would be nice .. there's about 1-4 people asking "where's the REPL?" every day here and on various forums .. (funny you should mention 'fancy' in this context; the slime-fancy contrib is not enabled by default and it includes the needed REPL-support) 19:08:10 stassats`: yes, as i said before there is no new options in what i am thinking of doing, just some visual things and some other to turn existing options to the similar menus of newer gui conventions 19:08:47 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 19:08:52 kill-X-server-into-the-stone-age 19:09:11 <[df]> aren't things like lispbox ready-to-go slimes? 19:09:16 that's hyper-meta-backspace 19:09:41 lnostdal: yes there are quite interesting choices that i figured about slime, especially slime-fuzzy-completion is turned off as default, i find it strange, it's a great option 19:10:09 kenanbolukbasi: and tab completion is turned off by default in windws 19:10:10 [df]: isn't lispbox unmaintained? 19:10:23 kenanbolukbasi, yup, that too ... :) 19:10:29 kenanbolukbasi: so that makes emacs+slime more user-friendly than windows! 19:10:32 kenanbolukbasi: so, you are asking for someone to do it or for blessing? 19:10:45 <[df]> Ralith: no idea, I've never even used it - it's just an example that came to mind 19:10:48 [df]: lispbox is nice but it is customize for usage with pcl, and that's not what i have in mind 19:12:06 [df]: it already has some libraries installed for book examples, which is probably not needed for all of beginners 19:12:40 most beginners will not be able to figure out how to install any libraries 19:12:50 nor how to use them 19:12:51 so add more to lispbox if anything 19:12:58 given that PCL is the recommended introductory text for lisp newbs around here, it seems like a good base to start from. 19:13:01 heh, true 19:13:23 Fade: it doesn't make much sense for someone trying to learn how to write AI code in lisp 19:13:44 (who would be infinitely better served with PAIP) 19:14:20 well, that's an advanced newb. they're already in the deep end. 19:14:44 and it is true that lisp-box is unmaintened, so for using with book examples, it is still very nice, for more, I am not sure 19:14:46 somebody who wants a button to compile a defun is much further back in the timeline of learning lisp, imo 19:14:47 no, they're just in a different pool altogether 19:15:14 Fade: someone reading PAIP would benefit from that, too 19:16:13 rahul: i agree 19:16:14 p_l: Did you see what rahul said here? I would like to change that. 19:16:21 xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:41 Fade: maybe that somebody is a plan9-addict 19:17:07 p_l: [when he said "most beginners will not ..." 19:17:13 oh no 19:17:16 I did it again 19:17:18 *rahul* runs 19:17:21 commodus [n=scott@69.169.181.2.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:32 i'm doubting that a plan9 addict is going to be put off by the absence of a visualC/eclipse style development environment. :) 19:18:46 it's nice to have stuff that's commonly required to get started with lisp easily available 19:18:58 p_l: I would like him to say something like: "Oh, you are a newbie; no problem, here is how to install your CL environment". 19:19:03 conversely, the drscheme visual environment is a nice thing and one that CL would benefit from on the wooing newbs front. 19:19:14 rahul: not only paip is still helpful for it being directed to ai, but also for people who is more interested in generally more scientific examples may find PAIP more interesting 19:19:19 bare clisp was enough for me to get started 19:19:29 kenanbolukbasi: yes, exactly 19:19:47 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 19:19:52 stassats`: back in my day, I wrote a bootstrap interpreter in machine code! 19:20:00 that's how I learned lisp! 19:20:11 kenanbolukbasi: PAIP is about AI? I think that's just an excuse for justifying the title. 19:20:27 jmc can say "i invented it" 19:20:28 beach: his point was that it's broader than that 19:20:43 jcm 19:20:49 stassats`: no, Al Gore will say that 19:21:05 rahul: Perhaps. I am a bit tired at this time of day. 19:21:41 beach: How old are these programmers of yours? Where are they located? 19:21:50 beach: My wife leaves for Vietnam next week. Wish I were going with her. 19:22:57 beach: i am sorry if i am wrong, i, myself is still a newbie of lisp, in fact i guess that's what makes me suitable to think like a newbie :) 19:22:57 tessier: The ones in Vietnam have usually worked for a few years before applying to the masters program, so they are older than our typical French crows. But it varies. They are still usually pretty young. 19:23:06 beach: mid-20's? 19:23:16 tessier: Sounds right. 19:23:39 beach: Do you find them fairly open-minded and willing to learn relatively obscure technologies such as lisp? 19:23:43 tessier: Can I invite your wife to dinner at the TIB in T.P. HCM? :) 19:24:02 lisp is arcane, not obscure! 19:24:15 milanj [n=milan@79.101.232.105] has joined #lisp 19:24:15 oh, it's also "difficult to learn" heh 19:24:32 tessier: Open-minded, yes, but they have inhibitions that I don't see with my French students. 19:25:05 beach: Do you communicate with them in english? Next time I am over there I may want to stop by and visit with them. Would love to meet some talented Vietnamese programmers just to help resolve the biases I picked up last time I was involved in a programming effort there. 19:25:09 hmm inhibitions against what? 19:25:17 beach: They do tend to be pretty conservative I noticed. 19:26:05 beach: My wife commented on how much more outgoing and fearless American (and presumably most European) children were compared to Vietnamese children. They tend to be coddled a lot more. 19:26:23 Which has its pluses and minuses. 19:26:24 no stray land mines in America.. 19:26:39 tessier: Yes, we communicate in English, which is part of the problem. The greater problem is the one of cultural differnces. I would love for you to help us out with some of those things! 19:27:13 tessier: Yes, that makes them sweeter, but a lot less effective. 19:27:42 beach: wait, I'll re-read the backlog 19:28:15 hefner: Oddly enough, unexploded ordinance remains a bit problem over there even these many years later. I think on average one person a week or something is killed or maimed. 19:28:24 You'll be plowing your field and then *boom* 19:28:36 s/bit/big/ 19:28:54 tessier: Part of the reason I am learning Vietnamese is that their English is not good enough for communicating these cultural differences. One day I hope to communicate to them what I want in Vietnamese. 19:28:57 When I took a tour of the tunnels at Cu Chi they pointed out the many metal fragments in the ground from bombs and shells. 19:29:13 beach: Hmm...You might need someone like my wife. 19:29:30 people in vietnam don't still learn french? 19:29:37 housel: Not so much. 19:29:38 tessier: I wouldn't dream of taking your wife from you. 19:29:43 beach: hahah 19:29:51 housel: No they don't. 19:29:52 beach: She's really cute, I wouldn't blame you for trying. :) 19:30:13 After the war for a while Russian was the thing to learn but that very quickly gave way to english. 19:30:17 Especially after '91 19:30:26 tessier: still, there are many others that are cute, so I wouldn't need to pic your wife. 19:30:38 aintme [n=Miranda@29.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:30:39 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06faf3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:30:48 beach: ok, setting up SLIME will be covered, definitely (as will be the whole "set up environment with sane defautls") 19:30:51 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06faf3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:51 *defaults 19:31:02 beach: Quite true. 19:31:16 p_l: Sounds good! 19:31:43 tessier: Besides, I am happily married. 19:31:49 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:32:03 beach: She is fluent in Vietnamese and English and knows something about computers. When she finishes her MBA in six months she might get a job doing something like helping someone like you intermediate. 19:32:09 beach: I had a very short tutorial for that already on my old blog, clbuild-oriented. Now I'm planning on something nicer to follow, that would also work on windows (I have at least one machine to setup) 19:32:30 p_l: ooh, environment setup guide for newbies? 19:32:35 I've been needing one of those to pass around 19:32:52 tessier: Sounds great! Let's talk! 19:32:56 Jarvellis [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:33:32 Ralith: http://unya.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/linux-common-lisp-quickstart/ <--- very simple and not so friendly (requires someone who knows how to use his distro, I guess), but works for the kind of people I usually encounter 19:33:34 p_l: I agree! 19:33:40 -!- Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:34:16 -!- Jarvellis is now known as Elench 19:34:34 p_l: it will be nice to have the more thorough crossplatformy one as well. 19:34:40 beach: the worst condition around here is that I don't have windows equivalent of tsocks and not every fellow students has managed to setup himself a tunnel outside our oh-so-helpful proxy 19:34:49 <[df]> I think instructions for people who are already familiar with a linux/unix programming environment is a great start 19:34:56 p_l: also shouldn't that be ./clbuild? 19:35:24 Ralith: right 19:35:43 p_l: I am not willing to pay you for Windows stuff! 19:35:52 heh 19:36:01 beach: windows will be later :) 19:36:15 On your own accounts. 19:37:22 beach: you could say that windows will be there anyway as fallout of my own efforts (I have a person that I'm trying to get into Lisp here that is on OS X, I have a windows VM that I want Lisp on etc.) 19:37:50 also, Windows makes for a harsh environment to test against :D 19:39:11 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-28-3-168.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:58 my main dev. platform is still linux, so it will be probably *nix first, then windows support 19:40:06 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:40:19 p_l: Fair enough. My conditions remain. Do something useful to mostof us... 19:40:36 jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-28-30-7.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:40:40 (OS X as distant 3rd, mostly due to the fact that it doesn't work fast enough for me) 19:41:07 p_l: Do you mean execution speed or something? 19:41:15 (for osx) 19:42:39 TDT: execution speed. it blows 19:42:48 (partially because I don't have a mac) 19:43:02 haha, well that may be part of it, dunno. 19:43:15 it would be another story when I get place to run my other laptop, as it can do hw virt. 19:44:00 (someone was a freaking genius when they specced our university-supplied laptops) 19:44:22 military grade crypto in hard drives but not hw virt. in cpu 19:44:40 beach why the windows aversion 19:45:18 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 19:45:49 -!- Draggor is now known as Beeggor 19:45:52 *p_l* is dumbfounded by the amount of time ruby spends in calling rt_sigprocmask 19:46:25 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-134-168.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:47:36 rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:57 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-170-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:10 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 19:51:40 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:03 francogrex [n=user@91.182.63.227] has joined #lisp 19:52:34 Guthur: Windows is an environment that I don't care about, and Microsoft is a company that doesn't influence my life. But I respect people who think otherwise. 19:52:45 -!- xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:53:00 Guthur: Does this answer your question? 19:53:22 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:53:29 beach: the main reason why I'm interested at all in development for windows is because I might be forced to deploy some stuff on that platform, as well as a way to grab new people to lisp :) 19:53:45 but it's my personal side-project ;) 19:53:52 p_l: true, i agree 19:54:07 p_l: As long as it's not windows-specific, I'll pay :) 19:54:12 windows lisp users make me sick 19:54:13 there are many windows users who can benefit from learning lisp 19:54:31 they want everything to work automagically, and yet, they won't help anyone create anything that works 19:55:02 akamaus [n=maus@95.106.70.40] has joined #lisp 19:55:04 Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:04 francogrex: You understand that this is not a great argument, I suppose, right? 19:55:27 they keep attacking linux users because our stuff doesn't conform to windows standards 19:55:50 rahul; they help a lot of people. many of my collegues now use lisp without knowing it: through te connection vba-cdll-lisp 19:55:56 and yet, when you ask what we should do instead, they just ignore us 19:56:19 well, I certainly don't plan on making it for such jerks. It's just that at least twice I faced setting up CCL (both 32 and 64bit) on windows with slime etc. and I'm planning to make the process easier 19:56:35 francogrex: well, that doesn't help us with getting common-lisp-controller kind of thing working on windows 19:56:50 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["Getting ready to head into boston."] 19:56:51 francogrex: You assume something that might not be true, i.e. that the only goal here is to attract more people to Lisp. 19:56:56 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-1-240.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:57:33 hello anyone. How to check if a symbol has lexical binding? I tried boundp but It seems to test for global bindings. 19:57:46 akamaus: look at your code 19:58:05 akamaus: if it has a binding, it's a valid variable. if not, it's not valid to refer to 19:58:39 akamaus: are you trying to write a macro that guesses things based on whether certain lexical variables are there or not? 19:58:51 beach: I doubt more people will be attracted to code in lisp; but what will happen is that people like u will have more opportunities to sell their products to windwos users. that is if you develop as a real job as opposed to hobby 19:59:01 p_l if you could make things a little easier on windows it would be great 19:59:04 akamaus: You can't do that, and if that's what you want, your idea of programming is seriously screwed up, or you want something other than Common Lisp. 19:59:21 rahul, I'm writing a macro and want to replace symbols with their values inside s-exp 19:59:43 akamaus: that makes no sense. 19:59:45 francogrex: People like me? I don't sell softare. 19:59:46 19:59:57 akamaus: variables don't have values at macroexpand time 20:00:06 so indirecly they will be supporting lisp by paying $ 20:00:11 rahul, I understand 20:00:31 akamaus: the whole point of the evaluation step is to replace variables with their values 20:00:53 francogrex: and I don't like your use of abbreviations like `u' because it show a lack of mastery of your tools. 20:01:28 beach; well for those who sell. more money for them means more resources for them to develop better lisp. 20:01:30 I think like 'u' because it shows a lack of understanding of amdahl's law 20:01:35 er 20:01:39 I don't like, rather 20:01:55 francogrex: Fascinating. This is freenode, though. 20:02:20 lisp is not restricted to freenode 20:02:37 francogrex: No, but that's where you are right now. 20:02:47 huh? whatever 20:03:14 rahul, ok. Say, I have '(a b). I want to something like (let ((a 10)) (magic '(a b))) => '(10 b) 20:03:25 francogrex: we are the ones who disappoint people like you by not customizing out software to run specifically on windows 20:03:30 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Success] 20:03:32 akamaus: why? 20:03:59 akamaus: what happens to b? 20:04:05 rahul, I'll will use it as input for my pattern matcher 20:04:09 rahul; it doesn't matter. some people always think of windows users as well 20:04:15 akamaus: and do you mean '(10 B) or (10 B)? 20:04:26 rahul, b will be bound to some part of expression later 20:04:30 francogrex: I think of them, but I can't think FOR them 20:04:36 akamaus: maybe you should read PAIP 20:05:01 rahul, I stole the idea there ) 20:05:05 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-043-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:16 *bfein* decides he should read PAIP 20:05:19 akamaus: hmm, I'm not sure what your approach here is, then 20:05:20 rahul: that doesn't make any sense. There will alays be more users than developers, it's always been like that 20:05:27 and added a macro for convenient access for bound variables 20:05:40 francogrex: yes. windows has 1,000,000 users and 0 developers 20:05:52 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-043-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 20:05:57 *Xach* has products to sell, but hasn't made a windows version yet 20:06:12 *Xach* should probably pony up for LWW someday 20:06:14 rahul: you know that what you said is very wrong, so i assume you are just kidding: therefore hahaha 20:06:24 francogrex: no, I'm not kidding 20:06:39 ah, the humour 20:06:39 francogrex: no one has ever helped us develop open source tools that work in windows 20:07:11 they expect people who don't use windows to test their tools on windows 20:07:41 and then to make them work in a way that a windows user would like 20:08:13 how the hell are we supposed to know what you like? you're supposed to write a spec if you want that, and then PAY us to implement it 20:08:28 anyway, what am i arguing with you for; I don't even like windows; I use it because of my clients/colleagues 20:08:57 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-134-168.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:09:20 *hefner* is perpetually on the verge of ditching linux and switching to windows 20:09:36 Ragnaroek [n=chatzill@p54A65FBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:41 now that's a strange migration. 20:09:44 hefner: why is that? 20:09:50 *_3b* switches every once in a while, and generally regrets it no matter which direction :( 20:10:12 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-28-30-7.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:11:04 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-090-083.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:11:05 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 20:11:21 rahul, I have a function match working like this: (match '(a b 3) '(1 2 3)) => ((a . 1) (b . 2)), or (match '(3 b) '(1 2)) => nil. Now I want to supply first constraint at runtime. 20:11:23 linux exhausts my patience, and OS X is such a foppish thing that I can only imagine buying a mac on the off chance I could pay for it by selling things to mac users 20:11:57 akamaus: you mean compile time? 20:12:58 akamaus: I don't see why you need to specify it lexically 20:12:59 no, I mean the time then program is run . For example, to get first argument from user. 20:13:14 (pay $2000 to for a computer running a crappy unix with a clumsy, form over function UI? feh.) 20:13:27 akamaus: have you read the rest of the prolog compiler chapters? 20:13:30 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:31 hefner: linux frustrated me a lot first, until I discovered puppy linux. Then it opned the key to understanding all linuxes 20:13:50 rahul, I want something like (defun my-match(a) (match '(a b) (1 2))) 20:13:50 akamaus: it allows you to assert bindings instead of just search for matches 20:14:21 -!- konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:15:13 rahul, no.. I'm on the chapter about the search now 20:15:40 akamaus: then keep reading :) 20:17:00 -!- aintme [n=Miranda@29.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 20:18:17 rahul, I guess I should. I just took a break to implement a web grabber using similar ideas for parsing html. And there I need to get some of constraints from variables. 20:18:23 beach: since you're the sponsor, any preferences to project name? :) 20:18:56 akamaus: hmm 20:19:19 akamaus: I'm not sure this is the best way of achieving your goal, but maybe your approach is different from the traditional 20:19:40 akamaus: I'd keep reading, as you will probably get valuable ideas from the way that prolog deal with making and checking assertions 20:21:47 gonzojive_ [n=red@c-67-188-116-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:57 -!- kenanbolukbasi [n=Kenan@88.238.40.101] has left #lisp 20:23:36 when you inspect strings in SLIME they appear just like any other array: one character per line. any recommendations for a getting a more comprehensible representation in emacs? 20:24:14 gonzojive_: what do you want them to look like? what they're not? 20:24:30 strings are an array of characters, by definition 20:24:55 like a string literal would be pretty good 20:24:57 gonzojive_: use "p" 20:25:09 I think that does it 20:25:10 thanks dlowe 20:26:05 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 20:27:11 doesn't it already print like a string literal in the inspector? 20:27:23 oh, it might be truncated, I guess 20:28:39 derrida [n=derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 20:32:57 marioxcc [n=user@200.77.69.89] has joined #lisp 20:35:50 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-49-25.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:36:07 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:36:16 dto1 [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:25 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:38:09 -!- dto1 is now known as dto 20:43:11 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:26 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:34 rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:39 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:43:44 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 20:44:11 -!- galaxywatcher [n=galaxywa@ppp-58-8-44-88.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [] 20:44:13 what the fcuk 20:44:18 "consider donating to clojure" 20:44:46 -!- freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:45:01 weirdo: what's wrong with that? 20:46:30 asking for money instead of demanding it; a lot of people will get offended no matter how well it (the asking) is presented .. heh 20:47:26 Well projects have real costs, no reason why should be offended by the bluntness of life. 20:47:48 well, planet lisp, lispjobs of all things 20:47:55 aye 20:48:04 but right, nothing worthy of getting irritated about 20:48:38 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 20:48:45 Hmm, that irritates me. 20:48:50 github has nice feature for that, allowing you to put a button for paypal :) 20:49:09 p_l: which probably will get ignored anyhow ;-) 20:49:18 *mishoo* thinks ..oO( not the feature... the button :p ) 20:52:23 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 20:52:29 he's basically asking for people to donate and contribute enough that he can maintain clojure as his full-time job 20:53:28 I don't see anything too wrong with that, although the way he presents it seems a bit whiny on the surface 20:53:31 the lilo concept ;) 20:53:38 rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:45 I'm not irritated with the request, but I'd rather not read about it on Planet Lisp. 20:54:04 I pick up "meta" items from that feed, but I might start just picking up "lisp" stuff. 20:55:51 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 20:56:58 well, I for one understand the man -- I know what it's like to put hundreds of hours into a project that gets popular and used by thousands (although nothing I've done compares to clojure) -- in any case, it's a bit frustrating to ask yourself "how will I pay the rent" in this case... 20:56:59 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-96-224-31-174.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:01 dll 20:57:45 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:57:55 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:58:13 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:59:21 It's funny, thinking about how we do stuff - like libraries and all. it's almost a form of volunteer work in a way. 20:59:24 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.84.22.124] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:59:35 *Xach* does it for the fame and/or glory 20:59:43 Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@guestlaptop-18.cis.uoguelph.ca] has joined #lisp 21:01:13 Xach: Still that's a form of helping people at least to a degree. I agree with you in wanting to be at least somewhat well known is a nice incentive. 21:01:28 Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:16 some time ago i was having a beer with H4ns and remarked "I wish I had more free time for my hobby projects" and he replied that he wished he could find more people to pay him to work on his hobby projects... 21:02:18 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:02:26 *Xach* is now also wishing for the latter 21:02:32 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:02:44 I found a weird window manager thinggie written in Lisp 21:02:52 or at least has Lispy syntax 21:02:55 http://tronche.com/gui/x/gwm/html-manual/ 21:03:04 Xach: and in fact, I think you were both saying the same thing :) 21:03:10 anyone know what is it? 21:03:31 I remember a time when I was in the Python(language) community and we were wishing the same thing; at some tipping point it just became a commercial fact that I was doing a lot of paid work in Python. 21:03:36 mishoo: Maybe. I think he imagined a more direct link. 21:03:43 now all my hobby projects happen in lisp. 21:04:33 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:34 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:42 http://old.koalateam.com/gwm/ 21:04:46 fusss: interesting. the name "WOOL" rings a bell. 21:04:46 incidentally, xach, your s3 stuff is very nice. 21:04:52 Fade: thanks 21:05:04 I think ideally we all want to be paid for exactly what we enjoy doing. Sadly, owning one's business is pretty dang hard :) 21:05:08 I think it has more features than most other S3 packages 21:05:26 I don't know - I'm kinda in the former Xach, in that I want just more free time. I make far more than I need to live off of 21:06:31 *Xach* is not in that situation 21:06:46 trade some cash for time then... right now, I have *too* much time, and it's not OK either :) 21:06:51 Xach: WOOL is a toy lisp dialect from LiSP,iirc 21:07:11 ah, C++ with guile. interesting. 21:07:38 mishoo: hah, well..yeah, i guess really it can go both ways. I don't really get bored, so I tend to keep realy busy with doing stuff even if it's not related to work. 21:07:54 fusss, heard about stumpwm? : 21:07:55 :) 21:08:07 stump is pretty neat 21:08:17 tic: yes, it managed to crash both X and SBCL 21:08:30 when i last tried it; > 1.5 years ago 21:09:31 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 21:10:46 It's a lot better now. 21:11:03 hi Xach. 21:11:15 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 21:11:27 howdy dto 21:11:33 Are you going to the meeting tonight? 21:11:49 nite folx 21:11:50 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 21:12:10 I get stumpwm crashes, but I think it's because I'm doing silly things. 21:12:20 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:02 my only beef with stump was how it handled transient windows 21:13:11 Xach: no 21:13:12 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:13:16 Xach: i forgot all about it. 21:13:21 Xach: wanna see what i'm working on? 21:13:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_EGvdM5s6Q 21:13:39 dto: bah! don't you follow @lispmeetings? 21:13:47 dto: cool, i'll check it out tonight 21:13:47 (thinking rick rolling...) 21:14:43 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:24 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-170-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:18:19 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-170-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:18:55 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:18:55 -!- kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:19:31 dto: nice 21:19:43 p_l: thanks :) 21:19:57 why are hashes considered not being useful data structures for 21:20:00 functional programming languages ? 21:20:02 dto: that looks good 21:20:15 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 21:20:35 just so people can hear the sounds of the actual game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yytT3B2UnxA (worse video quality tho) 21:21:27 dto: which CL are you using to develop your games? 21:21:35 SBCL. 21:21:45 i can deliver on win/mac and linux 21:21:47 :) 21:21:51 *Fade* nods 21:21:51 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-49-25.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:22:07 sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDA949C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:22:27 does the game engine require threads? 21:22:46 no. it's single threaded and event-driven via SDL. 21:23:18 well, that's the fastest moving rogue-like I've seen. 21:23:24 XONG just got an update. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMhTmZBgRU4 21:23:38 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:25:03 i have some developer documentation for the engine but it's incomplete. http://dto.github.com/notebook/xe2-reference.html 21:25:22 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 21:25:24 maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:25:47 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.182.63.227] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:26:36 cool 21:27:27 afk 21:27:52 do you guys use anything in particular to profile queries with clsql? 21:29:08 merl15 [n=merl@80-121-23-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:29:15 sykopomp|work: uh, profiling queries is done in the DB, no? 21:29:24 what kind of profiling are you looking for? 21:29:33 Eh, I asked the wrong question, I think. 21:29:46 possibly 21:30:15 -!- Ragnaroek [n=chatzill@p54A65FBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102134505]"] 21:30:32 neither sb-profile nor sb-sprof seem to be giving me a good idea about which parts of the program are the bottlenecks. I was assuming sb-profile would count the time/consing of its callees, too. 21:31:06 Some of the callees involve sql queries, but it's all spread around. Profiling the main functions that have db-related calls inside doesn't seem to help, either. 21:31:51 sykopomp|work: so your guess is that it's general DB slownesS? 21:31:58 something is a bit odd, because there's a huge difference between how long the profiler reports the toplevel function took, and how much my own timer claims it took (the timer just being the delta between two (get-universal-time) 21:32:18 rahul: no, it's not my assumption. I just want to make sure that DB slowness is definitely getting reported. 21:32:37 sykopomp|work: it's probably waiting for the DB 21:33:12 try comparing get-internal-run-time and seeing if that matches what sb-profile is reporting 21:34:04 gah. Why was I using get-universal-time? :| 21:34:08 let me try that. 21:35:27 sykopomp|work: because that's the most useful measure of real world performance 21:36:18 the difference between the two is probably going to be pretty close to the amount of time the DB queries are slowing down your applicatoin 21:36:22 there we go. That's more close to what sb-profile reports.. 21:36:46 time to put on your DBA hat now 21:37:02 Right. The question is -- is there a tool already that would help me figure out where the bigger slowdowns are, or is it time to wrap everything with a with-time-report macro? :\ 21:37:33 sykopomp|work: I would use your DBMS's profiling capabilities directly at this point 21:37:33 it would be nice to be able to figure out what specific queries are busy on the lisp-side before jumping into the DB 21:37:56 eh, maybe, but what really matters is what kinds of operations the DB spends its time doing 21:38:10 especially table scans as opposed to index lookups 21:38:13 that would involve going over every single query in my code and assuming all of them are the bottleneck (as opposed to having lisp give me some hints) 21:38:37 at least I figure. This whole rdbms thing is new to me :P 21:38:40 no, I'm telling you to have the DB give you hints 21:38:46 ah 21:38:50 so you're probably missing a bunch of indicies 21:39:40 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f755851.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:41:46 _icecube_ [n=icecube@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:44:24 TJohn [i=as@118-168-232-93.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:51 -!- TJohn [i=as@118-168-232-93.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:45:59 TJohn [i=as@118-168-232-93.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:06 Intensity [i=[Ep0hy1Z@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 21:48:16 -!- TJohn [i=as@118-168-232-93.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:48:25 TJohn [i=as@118-168-232-93.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:19 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:49:19 hoop 21:50:35 -!- Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@guestlaptop-18.cis.uoguelph.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:51:01 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:05 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:55 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:54:14 emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:45 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:46 davazp [n=user@145.Red-83-54-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:31 -!- akamaus [n=maus@95.106.70.40] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:56:36 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:48 -!- emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:51 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:51 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 21:58:15 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:58:32 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@vipnet101-86.mobile.CARNet.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:59:05 sykopomp|work: time to play with EXPLAIN, I'd say ;-) 21:59:25 p_l: /cry 22:00:37 .... :P 22:01:25 (sorry for hermetic joke, but i couldn't help myself) 22:03:02 I like pgadmin3's explain gui very much, it can be great help even in learning about SQL 22:04:48 indeed 22:06:53 sykopomp|work: are your tables large? 22:06:59 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-47-83.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:07:18 look for queries on big tables; it's likely you're missing an index 22:07:30 rsynnott: on the order of 2mil rows for one of them. 22:07:51 hmm, doing any queries on that based on a non-indexed column? :) 22:07:59 Because that would be slow and rightly so 22:08:20 *sykopomp|work* has no idea how mysql actually works. 22:08:52 you could try pgtop 22:08:54 oh, mysql? 22:08:55 mtop 22:09:07 sykopomp|work: depends on the storage engine 22:09:25 sykopomp|work: alternatively, THIS: http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/using-new-query-profiler.html 22:10:42 oh hey. Sweet, thanks! 22:10:48 that is incredibly useful :D 22:10:58 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 22:11:40 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:11:42 it is indeed! 22:11:54 be sure to turn it off when you're done, or your server will catch fire 22:12:07 and don't do it on a production box or BAD THINGS will happen :) 22:12:11 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-205-76.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:11 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:12:58 slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:40 gah. clsql memory faults when i (query "set profiling=1") 22:14:41 D: 22:15:43 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-17-232.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:15:55 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-17-232.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:16:40 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:18:15 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 22:21:58 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:26:16 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-143-31.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 22:26:18 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 22:26:18 pfeyz [n=user@146.95.20.133] has joined #lisp 22:27:13 -!- pfeyz [n=user@146.95.20.133] has left #lisp 22:27:26 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.196.70] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 22:28:27 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:28:57 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:30:34 Demosthenes [n=demo@host162.155.212.34.conversent.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:11 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:31:33 -!- jonathanturner [n=jonathan@n156s125.ntc.blacksburg.shentel.net] has quit [] 22:36:18 brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:37:35 -!- derrida [n=derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:38:45 Is there a defined way to get back to a "clean" pretty printer dispatch table? 22:38:46 rpg, memo from tcr: stassats just committed a patch for modern-mode friendliness in swank-asdf.lisp. 22:40:00 oh, I see, (copy-pprint-dispatch nil) 22:40:37 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 22:40:45 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-205-76.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:40:52 hm. How many implementations actually have 'modern-mode', and does anyone here actually use it regularly?... 22:41:05 clisp and allegro have 22:41:16 -!- kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:41:24 modern-mode? 22:41:49 lisp without parenthesis 22:41:55 nah, i'm joking 22:41:57 ew 22:42:01 case-sensitive lisp 22:42:01 good 22:42:15 wut 22:43:39 lowercase CL package and preserving case readtable 22:43:45 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:43:56 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:44:04 quodlibetor [n=user@12.130.118.7] has joined #lisp 22:44:06 I have some vague memory of that being something you could get via a standard global 22:44:09 guess not 22:44:17 you can 22:44:22 o 22:44:23 in that case 22:44:24 wtf? 22:44:25 but ANSI CL symbols are still upcased. 22:44:32 ah. 22:44:39 that would make it kind of suck, yes 22:44:41 so you have to do (DEFUN foo () (EQL ...)) 22:44:46 you can define MODERN-CL 22:44:56 yeah 22:44:59 so why is all this desirable anyway 22:45:11 imo, modern-mode would be quite nice for interop. 22:45:21 would it, though? 22:45:32 not worth it 22:45:37 it would let you use symbols instead of strings when operating on things that might be case-sensitive. 22:45:44 I haven't evern seen any C/C++/etc code where capitalization actually matters 22:45:45 such as FFI, databases, etc. 22:45:48 systems have reading and printing bugs all over 22:45:59 sykopomp|work: ah, that sort of makes sense 22:46:05 slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:05 Ralith: so your program can have 52 single-letter variables 22:46:12 stassats`: :D 22:46:21 well, 51 22:46:26 sykopomp|work: what's wrong with |MyMultiCaseSymbol|? 22:46:36 greek-letter- is a letter too! 22:46:37 bonus points, why? 22:46:43 two characters too many! 22:46:57 p_l: it's a bit annoying to deal with, imo. 22:47:00 it's not -that- big a deal. 22:47:06 what's the point in a legacy standard anyway? 22:47:09 go for the status quo 22:47:21 I just think it's kind of pointless to be case-insensitive in this day and age (specially when you have to interoperate) 22:47:32 and it would be more seamless to be case-sensitive. 22:47:53 I can't think of any reason other than interop, though 22:48:06 and people might start doing camelcase :| 22:48:09 (because you can't make a variable named T) 22:48:11 they won't 22:48:18 they don't do it in scheme unless they're idiots. 22:48:25 Ralith: But it's easy enough to just shoot those people. 22:48:27 scheme's case sensitive? 22:48:31 yup 22:48:34 fair enough 22:48:37 at least PLT is, I don't know if it's standard. 22:48:41 r5rs is insensitive 22:48:47 well PLT is pretty mainstream isn't it? 22:48:53 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6CE38.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:57 stassats`: oh? is it r6rs, then? 22:48:58 huh? 22:49:03 sykopomp|work: no idea 22:49:12 you people are all smoking some crazy shit 22:49:16 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6CE38.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 22:49:19 Ralith: I don't really think it'll be a problem. I think you can enforce conventions either way, like sellout pointed out. 22:49:29 case conventions make it easy to automatically translate names between languages 22:49:46 rahul: yup 22:50:03 -!- rmsc [n=rmsc@a85-139-194-125.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 22:50:07 PLT is pretty mainstream, but pretty non-standard 22:50:09 not just languages, either. Databases, or just any other application we might want to use symbols to interop with, instead of strings. 22:50:16 automatic translation sucks anyway 22:50:41 automatic translation has worked everywhere I wanted it to 22:51:01 i can hardly imagine more than half impls getting modern mode 22:51:11 so you can just escape symbol names 22:52:56 yeah, it's not that big an issue. It would just be more natural if modern-mode was standard :) 22:53:26 it saves us from CamelCase 22:53:33 I don't think it does. 22:53:57 I type CamelCase as camel-case and let my translator deal with the ugliness 22:54:04 I think the foo-bar convention would stick around either way. If your argument is against newbies, I'll argue that newbies will CamelCase whether they have case-insensitivity or not. 22:54:21 yes, and they use underscores too 22:54:25 the pain, the pain 22:54:29 -!- zoldar [n=zoldar@kyh66.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:54:33 :invert? 22:54:41 -!- Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:54:44 i didn't see newbies with CamelCase, but with underscores quite often 22:55:19 *sykopomp|work* loves how SBCL is willing to continue running even after getting several memory faults <3 22:55:33 now THAT is true commitment to interactive development. 22:56:01 memory faults aren't an issue, it's arbitrary writes that cause trouble 22:56:18 also, /me had several crashes on stack overflows 22:56:21 -!- prxq [n=mommer@e179051143.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:56:27 surviving heap-exhaustion is more interesting 22:56:48 it works if malloc returns ENOMEM 22:56:57 if OOM killer gets angry it's different 22:57:05 setrlimit(2) would help 22:57:14 -!- merl15 [n=merl@80-121-23-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:57:23 I agree. heap-exhaustion is pretty fun :) 22:57:35 why, yes, especially without swap 22:57:52 *Ralith* is reminded to work out wth is leaking all over his bot 22:58:11 surviving ENOMEM works if your error handling doesn't require memory allocation (: 22:58:36 Ralith: I bet it's ChanL 22:58:37 :P 22:59:20 ENOMEM typically works when there's a very large piece of data to get allocated 22:59:35 then error handling consumes remaining memory while never running out of it 22:59:40 s/to get/to be/ 22:59:56 sykopomp|work: I would not be entirely surprised; I don't think I've done anything ill-advised. 23:00:17 sykopomp|work: maybe you could look into that at some point? I really like using chanl so scrapping it would suck :x 23:00:26 Ralith: <3 23:00:38 physical concurrency is fun 23:00:39 Ralith: I would need to know your code intimately. I don't recall ChanL having any major memory leaks. 23:00:49 my code is very simple 23:00:53 it has some thrashing issues, but that's about it, I think. 23:00:56 not terribly urgent either, mind 23:01:10 All it takes is keeping a reference in the wrong place. 23:01:23 most of the complex bits can probably be stripped out for testing purposes (and replaced with dummies to maintain chanl load) 23:01:53 I can do that much myself, anyway 23:02:00 -!- TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:02:10 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06faf3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:02:15 if a barebonesified version still leaks visibly I'll hand it off to you 23:02:27 Ralith: if you have a more specific idea of where the leak happens, I'll take a close look and see if chanl is to blame. 23:03:49 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:04:46 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:04:56 the only thing I can think of right now is simply that I'm passing a whole ton of messages around 23:05:10 but I will corner it further at some point 23:06:10 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:06:31 pfeyz [n=user@146.95.20.133] has joined #lisp 23:07:51 -!- pfeyz [n=user@146.95.20.133] has left #lisp 23:08:42 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:08:50 -!- kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 23:10:07 xan [n=xan@13.Red-83-36-170.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:39 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 23:15:43 nenorbot [n=Menas@87.69.67.58] has joined #lisp 23:17:04 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:18:57 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:19:33 -!- _icecube_ [n=icecube@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["shutdown -h now"] 23:21:27 -!- fiveop_ [n=fiveop@e179164040.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 23:23:38 Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:04 davazp` [n=user@155.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:43 -!- xan [n=xan@13.Red-83-36-170.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:29:19 ruediger_ [n=quassel@93-82-13-183.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:32:11 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:35:30 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:36:23 Demosthenex [n=demo@host162.155.212.34.conversent.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:06 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:37:36 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:38:37 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:39:08 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:32 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 23:40:25 -!- davazp [n=user@145.Red-83-54-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:40:31 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:42:35 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 23:43:04 xan [n=xan@13.Red-83-36-170.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:47 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:45:30 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-25-151.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:46:27 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@host162.155.212.34.conversent.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:53:00 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-77-44.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:55:59 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:10 -!- Dr_Venture [n=D@ip68-103-87-15.ks.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:57:16 redlue [i=star@ppp085.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:59:00 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:09 -!- ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:11 ASau``` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 23:59:24 -!- xan [n=xan@13.Red-83-36-170.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:59:44 mornfall_ [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 23:59:53 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- quodlibetor [n=user@12.130.118.7] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-einhfecvxligsksb] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host188.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-74-162.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- rumbleca [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- DrForr_ [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- Madsy [n=madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- acieroid [n=acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- liron`` [n=user@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- dek52 [n=eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:53 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:54 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:54 -!- egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:54 -!- rlonstein [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:54 -!- anekos [n=anekos@pl1218.nas924.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:54 -!- froydnj [n=froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:54 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@130.34.188.206] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:54 -!- dalkvist_ [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:54 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:54 -!- nareshov [n=nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:59:54 -!- blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]