00:00:47 -!- ziga`` [n=user@BSN-61-60-72.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:02:41 (macro1 (macro2 ...)) 00:03:44 -!- ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03:56 ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 00:09:03 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:29 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:16:05 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.254.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:26 lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.254.64] has joined #lisp 00:16:40 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:45 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:50 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 00:24:31 ojw [n=ojw@78-86-37-93.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:26:27 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 00:30:54 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:31:28 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:28 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:28 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:35:50 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:36:15 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:36:34 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 00:37:40 rares1 [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:54 dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:47 is there some step/path needed to make libraries available in clisp after installing them? "apt-get install cl-who" followed by running (defpackage :sample (:use :cl :cl-who)) gives "SYSTEM::%FIND-PACKAGE: There is no package with name "CL-WHO"" 00:39:08 Tordek [n=tordek@host225.190-137-184.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:39:21 -!- rares1 [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:40:29 rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:41 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 00:41:53 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 00:42:44 -!- addled [n=adl@77.208.134.5] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:45:15 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host225.190-137-184.telecom.net.ar] has quit ["brb"] 00:45:29 Tordek [n=tordek@host225.190-137-184.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:48:01 ojw you will need to load the package, probably using asdf 00:48:10 is there a .asd file 00:51:38 yes, looks like there is a /usr/share/common-lisp/systems/cl-who.asd 00:53:05 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 00:54:02 Aviado [n=jack@75-30-250-33.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:39 -!- borism [n=boris@213-35-235-152-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 00:56:54 TDT [n=user@173-30-223-49.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 00:57:04 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:57:06 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 00:59:13 -!- Yuuhi` [i=benni@p5483B047.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:02:55 foom2 [n=user@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 01:04:28 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [] 01:05:56 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:38 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:10:51 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 01:15:56 -!- ztzg [n=dash@dslb-084-057-006-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:16:04 Taggnostr [n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 01:16:23 ztzg [n=dash@dslb-084-057-006-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:13 alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:33 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 01:29:51 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-14478.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:31:41 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:51 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-179-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 01:44:14 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 01:47:11 plan9 [n=stian@stimpack.sletner.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:17 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-72-228-78-176.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:52:49 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-92-48.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:53:52 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-98-204-67-114.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:02:18 seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:49 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 02:07:18 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 02:09:33 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Success] 02:11:36 davazp [n=user@232.Red-83-55-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:39 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 02:17:34 -!- prip [n=_prip@host39-122-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:18:04 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:18:45 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:19:21 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:31 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 02:20:53 -!- plan9 [n=stian@stimpack.sletner.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:23:23 -!- TDT [n=user@173-30-223-49.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:23:26 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 02:26:19 prip [n=_prip@host167-195-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 02:33:39 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.208.200] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 02:35:06 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:35:07 -!- ojw [n=ojw@78-86-37-93.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:43:30 anyone want to test some games made in lisp? i have some new win/mac/linux binaries to test out. http://dto.github.com/notebook/xong.html and http://dto.github.com/notebook/sanctuary.html are the games, http://github.com/dto/xe2/downloads for the downloads. 02:43:32 fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-166-196.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:15 didi [n=user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 02:44:40 -!- pjb [n=t@33.Red-88-30-127.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:45:56 Say what you will, but after reading the great pcl book to lear lisp, it is hard to code something in lisp by my own. Everything that I come up seems like garbage. 02:46:09 didi: in what sense? 02:46:22 ie. in what sense does it come up as garbage? 02:46:38 also, it's recommended to code as you go, not after you're done 02:46:56 but even if you're done, you should still go back to the chapters you have problems with 02:46:58 mathrick: I am learning it, ok, but my code seems always too ugly and all. 02:47:12 oh, that's to be expected 02:47:21 if you knew it already, you wouldn't need to learn 02:47:29 Yes, I suppose. But it's hard to not pay attention to it. 02:47:30 it's always ugly the first time around 02:47:36 and second, and third 02:47:47 I suppose around the fifth time you have something like a fairly good idea 02:48:33 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:48:58 I sincerely hope so. I am stuck in the early days of: URGH, what a mess. pcl does this so much better. 02:50:59 For example, I am trying to code a fairly simple database application and I cannot stop thinking how neat is the implementation of it of chapter 27, although I just have enough knowledge to code something like chapter 3. :-/ 02:51:03 Oh well. 02:51:49 mathrick: Thank you for the encouragement. :-) 02:53:31 didi: you're welcome :) 02:53:38 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 02:53:42 practice is really the only way towards betterment 02:55:19 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 02:57:12 didi: there's also a lot design taste you can only get by failing to do things properly. For instance the binary parser in PCL is done fully in macros, whereas my own serialisable object protocol parser was written with MOP and metaclasses and all that hackery. And while I can't really compare them, since mine never reached fully operational state, I suspect PCL's implementation was both simpler and more robust 02:58:13 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 02:59:01 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.132.130] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:59:10 -!- prip [n=_prip@host167-195-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:01:07 mathrick: Yes, the design factor is a killer. Obviously macros are a whole new world for me. So, my mind is not trained to think (yet) in terms of it. Also, I found some bits here and there which I find great but I do not understand the machinery enough to come up with. 03:01:23 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:03 -!- skeptomai|away [n=cb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0"] 03:02:09 didi: you don't understand it as in you don't know how exactly it works, or as in you wouldn't be able to replicate it when faced with similar constraints? 03:03:25 mathrick: I think both. The first less than the second as I can always read again the passages. 03:03:36 prip [n=_prip@host37-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:03:39 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host86-136-52-94.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 03:03:47 -!- mathrick is now known as a[\ 03:03:53 -!- a[\ is now known as mathrick 03:04:15 didi: then yes, it's completely natural 03:04:26 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:04:31 :-) 03:04:42 every new field of knowledge has the period where you "know" it, but haven't internalised it enough to be able to use it 03:04:43 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 03:07:15 dto: btw, I must say I don't understand the rules of XIOBREAK from watching your gameplay videos 03:07:24 -!- jp_larocque [i=jabber-i@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has left #lisp 03:07:31 -!- Piranha__ [i=piranha@synthetic-forms.thoughtcrime.us] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 03:07:32 I'm unsure if it's saying good or bad things about it :) 03:07:58 mathrick: xiobreak? it's a breakout clone. you move the paddle and reflect the ball, try to prevent it going off the bottom. lose all your balls, the game ends. 03:08:03 it's a 7DRL compo entry 03:08:05 I know 03:08:12 so it's incomplete. 03:08:44 lolsuper_ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:08:59 but I don't understand the balls' mechanic. When you get more, when you're allowed to fire them, when they grow or not, what is the destruction pattern 03:09:51 the videos make the bricks really blurry. the blue/orange bomb bricks explode and increase the speed of the ball. the plus sign increases the ball size. the E block gives you an extra ball. you start with 5 and can fire them all off if you want, but you'll lose them. 03:10:09 i was thinking of adding a score multiplier for when mulitple balls are in the air, however i can't touch it till after the compo is done running. 03:10:29 dto: why not? Have you used all 7 days already? 03:10:43 yes. xiobreak has been done since like last week 03:10:57 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:10:59 tonight's real news is the availability of XONG 1.4 and Sanctuary on win/mac/linux 03:11:13 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 03:11:25 dto: hmm, okay, last time I saw it, the post said "48h used" 03:11:36 oh. 03:11:38 where was this? 03:11:47 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:53 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:11:55 oh, my blog. there was an entry on the blog about it being finished. 03:12:01 and i announced it on the lispgamesdev mailing list 03:12:06 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 03:12:11 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:12:20 dto: but I've only seen the starting announcement :) 03:12:21 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:28 because of lisppit 03:12:29 oh. 03:12:58 lisppit? 03:13:13 o 03:13:27 hmm, sanctuary is done downloading 03:13:46 mathrick: this is an early alpha, so expect bugs, and incompleteness 03:14:50 I do 03:15:18 thanks :) 03:18:07 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:18:57 dto: the binary names like "run-forest" will get you to a special layer of hell 03:19:09 mathrick: oops, i asked him to change that. are you on linux? 03:19:24 yes 03:19:28 :) sorry 03:19:36 who's "him"? 03:19:44 Shawn Betts. he makes the win/mac builds for me. 03:19:55 but I make the linux builds, so this is my fault :) 03:20:01 :) 03:21:01 any problems running the game? you have to have SDL libs installed. see also the xong page http://dto.github.com/notebook/xong.html section "notes on the downloads", applies to Sanctuary as well 03:21:12 yeah, hunting for the libs right now 03:22:28 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-13-172.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:25:04 dto: it'd be nicer if a failure to load shared objects exited with a nice message instead of dropping to the debugger with no ABORT restart 03:25:20 hmm. i'll try to fix that. 03:26:02 dto: the most user-friendly way would be to try to load all objects, skip the failed ones, then exit if any failed and report all the missing ones 03:26:11 that'd reduce the number of round-trips 03:26:25 yep. added to todo list 03:28:43 dto: also, you're depending on development shared objects for SDL_mixer. Ie. you import libSDL_mixer.so, but you should be asking for libSDL_mixer-1.2.so.0 03:29:06 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 03:30:38 mathrick: there's cffi:define-foreign-library forms that try many alternatives, one of them being exactly that. 03:30:53 then it fails here 03:31:01 :( 03:31:15 dto: another tidbit is that mv BINARY-README README.BINARY would put it right next to normal README :) 03:31:26 ah. 03:31:42 how do i control what sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die is linking in? 03:31:54 whatever it does is seeming to take precedence over the cffi forms 03:32:03 I don't think it should be linking anything in 03:32:10 you need to override the top-level properly or something 03:32:19 but the game works on my own machine even when i leave out the dynamic loading code. 03:32:24 s/game/binaries 03:32:26 hmm 03:32:49 STYLE-WARNING: Undefined alien: "SDL_getenv" <-- I wonder what causes that 03:32:53 before i added that code, people who didn't have libsdlgfx .so.0.4 or whatever said that my game was trying to link to it 03:33:06 i see messages like that when i build the game. 03:33:16 will have to look into sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die 03:33:46 mathrick: with a symlink or two the current version should work. 03:33:50 dto: it links libsdlgfx .so.0.4 here, but that's exactly the object that comes with libsdl-gfx 03:34:08 dto: I know, I'm looking into ~/.xe2rc now 03:34:15 ok cool. 03:34:28 mathrick: i will work on these library issues. i'm new to cffi / distributing lisp binaries. 03:34:36 however the windows/mac ones work swimmingly out of the box :) 03:35:12 that's nice 03:36:50 debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR in thread #: 03:36:50 Cannot find module "standard" in paths (#P"/home/mathrick/xe2/"). 03:36:55 dto: what does that mean? 03:37:13 oh, I know 03:37:15 nevermind 03:37:18 ok. 03:37:26 i need better error messages. 03:37:27 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 03:37:57 I need better reading comprehension :) 03:38:26 okay, it does things and moves and makes noises now 03:38:38 yay. 03:39:50 dto: I don't understand the controls 03:40:33 it's h j n m k y, but they make no sense 03:40:41 why is k up? 03:41:06 mathrick: you can use the numeric keypad, or HJKL for orthogonal and YUBN for diagonal. it's the classic nethack keys. 03:41:13 in case you don't have a numeric keypad. 03:41:29 you can move in 8 directions in this game, yet people don't have 8 arrows generally, so it's either numpad or HJKL 03:41:45 oh, nethack 03:41:49 I should've expected 03:42:09 :) 03:42:15 i hate nethack. i just use the keys. 03:42:17 -!- davazp [n=user@232.Red-83-55-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:42:18 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-12-193.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:42:25 dto: could you make it use something like the keypad, just on the letter keys 03:42:33 ? 03:42:36 mathrick: sure. i could add a WXAD option. 03:42:55 yeah, or yui/hjk/nm, for example 03:44:19 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-120-151.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:35 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:47:51 dto: On the save-lisp-and-die and opening of object files on starting the saved core, I think you'll find that it opens every object file that was opened via load-shared-object prior to saving the core, and they're all stored on a list somewhere. 03:48:30 dto: how do I pick up arrows after shooting them? 03:49:02 it doesn't work properly, it's a bug. 03:49:49 dto: the map isn't shown fully if you happen to be low enough on the screen 03:50:06 mathrick: yeah, i've got to fix those so they re-align 03:50:32 also I can't read the map and it's tiiiiny 03:50:42 but that might be deliberate 03:50:59 you're not really supposed to read it. 03:51:08 i was really just doing it to test the bubbles, kind of 03:51:12 i have a large version though. 03:51:48 :) 03:51:52 okay then 03:57:49 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d81ad81.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:25 dto: halp! I've run out rations 03:58:34 you're doomed. 03:58:37 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:59:07 how far did you make it? 03:59:14 the exits are typically along the bottom left 03:59:23 -!- wakeup^ [n=wakeup@koln-5d81896d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:59:36 dto: to the mountain passageway 03:59:41 the wolves are very annoying 03:59:50 yes they're going to be retooled. 03:59:57 also, you still take damage after you're dead 03:59:59 which is silly :) 04:00:18 you can move and shoot when dead too. sillier. 04:01:00 heh 04:01:33 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 04:01:38 anyway yeah the wolf scene is annoying. 04:01:42 hokay, that's enough XE2 for now, it uses 100% of my both cores, and that's not healthy for my laptop or for the hand I keep near the fan exhaust 04:01:46 this game needs definite tooling 04:01:55 why does my game use so much cpu?? 04:02:02 dto: o'tooling even :) 04:02:03 um, it's single threaded. 04:02:08 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:02:12 I don't know, I suspect SDL 04:02:14 why it could use both cores, is a bit of a mystery 04:02:25 all i do is blit pngs to the screen. 04:03:09 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 04:04:17 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["good night"] 04:05:19 dto: oh, I found a herb growing in a wall? 04:05:20 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:05:26 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:32 hmm, the Xong title screen uses 100% cpu too. so it's not my world logic. 04:05:56 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:06:12 dto: did you fix that problem where it can't find libs that exist? 04:06:50 Ralith: i'm working on that. SBCL is linking in stuff automatically when what i want is to link it in with lisp code 04:07:14 so my code to link in variously named libs is not having any effects... SBCL is making my executable link to .so.4 04:07:56 nyef: how would i go about fixing sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die? 04:09:01 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.191.67.98] has joined #lisp 04:09:39 Umm... 'sec, let me go looking. 04:10:24 aha. http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Loading-Shared-Object-Files.html#Loading-Shared-Object-Files 04:10:35 Yeah, *shared-objects*. 04:10:36 1. If dont-save is true (default is NIL), the shared object will be dropped when save-lisp-and-die is called -- otherwise shared objects are reloaded automatically when a saved core starts up. Specifying dont-save can be useful when the location of the shared object on startup is uncertain. 04:11:06 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 04:11:56 *nyef* is trying to persuade his current sbcl tree to build for x86 and has managed to find a handful of places where he's screwed up non-x86-64 builds and the two places he needs to tweak things for a cross-build. 04:14:03 dto: so I assume there's nothing on the meadow past the mountains? 04:14:13 mathrick: that's it so far. 04:14:18 mathrick: it's meant to be a short roguelike. 04:14:29 mhm 04:14:31 mathrick: there'll be stuff to do in the monastery 04:14:40 but i need to work another week or two on this. 04:15:00 nyef: aren't the .so files shares objects 04:15:16 dto: then why is the error happening at runtime and not at dynamic linktime? 04:15:27 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:15:45 Ralith: at link time the linker is happy with the libraries i have here. 04:15:47 dto: that's what a .so is 04:16:14 oh, i misread his stars as emphasis not *variable-name* 04:16:44 that's why you should capitalise your LISP-NAMES :) 04:17:20 what needs to happen is, that i need to override whatever LISPBUILDER-SDL is doing with respect to opening the libs. 04:22:44 i need to sleep. thanks nyef, mathrick 04:23:13 -!- rme [rme@clozure-8995C93A.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:23:13 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-120-151.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:23:44 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host225.190-137-184.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:23:56 dto: that is a good idea actually 04:24:01 and no problem 04:25:49 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-179-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:27:14 -!- bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:27:23 bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:14 Mmm... I need to sleep as well. 04:28:18 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 04:28:30 redb1ue [n=star@ppp069.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:28:51 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:29:59 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:53 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:33:57 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 04:36:24 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:40:25 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 04:40:55 -!- redblue [n=star@ppp133.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:41:09 -!- redb1ue [n=star@ppp069.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 04:41:25 redblue [n=star@ppp069.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:46:32 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:47:08 pastah_rhymez [n=alexande@aoeu.csbnet.se] has joined #lisp 04:47:29 hello 04:47:39 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-235-135.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:47:57 pastah_rhymez: hi 04:48:06 *pastah_rhymez* doesn't know lisp 04:48:12 but i know haskell :) 04:48:24 great, it's time to learn lisp 04:48:28 i'm curious about something; this spring i'm doing my bachelors project 04:48:34 minion: please tell pastah_rhymez about pcl 04:48:35 pastah_rhymez: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 04:49:56 i got assigned the project "Racing Game" which is supposed to be focused on high performance graphics and be capable of multiplayer games 04:50:10 so i'm curious as to how good the OpenGL bindings are 04:50:28 there's #lispgames channel 04:50:35 stassats: 4 realz? 04:50:38 yeah 04:50:45 cooooooool :) 04:50:55 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.191.67.98] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:51:37 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@202.191.67.98] has joined #lisp 04:51:49 -!- pastah_rhymez [n=alexande@aoeu.csbnet.se] has left #lisp 04:53:53 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.250.254] has joined #lisp 04:58:33 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:58:34 kpreid___ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:42 -!- redblue [n=star@ppp069.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 05:07:47 Good morning! 05:07:58 lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-207-193.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:52 -!- lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-242-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:19:14 pinterface1 [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:41 beach: Good morning. 05:26:20 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.21.83] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:26:58 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.21.83] has joined #lisp 05:28:39 vng [n=user@123.20.118.45] has joined #lisp 05:29:45 hello vng 05:29:54 hello beach 05:30:19 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:30:27 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:33:33 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 05:34:49 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:22 -!- rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:36:26 mjsor [n=mjsor@c-71-193-150-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:18 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-27-91-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:39:36 vng: How are things going? 05:41:03 rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 05:45:05 beach: everythings's ok. We are thinking about the kind of interaction "selected cell" 05:46:27 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.21.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:47:49 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:49:22 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 05:49:49 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 05:50:10 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:50:51 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@85.125.183.36] has joined #lisp 05:51:30 -!- kpreid___ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:51:35 vng: What are some of your choices? 05:51:36 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:51:39 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:08 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["leaving"] 05:54:09 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:21 r00tzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 05:55:59 -!- doom2quake_ [n=doom2qua@122.163.198.38] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56:32 xan [n=xan@82.203.205.227] has joined #lisp 05:58:06 -!- Beeggor is now known as Draggor 05:59:39 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 06:01:32 beach: how to identify which element in the selected cell is currently selected 06:02:25 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:02:51 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:03:01 vng: You can add another slot to the application frame holding the currently selected cell. 06:03:43 -!- didi [n=user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:05:21 beach: true or false slot? 06:05:48 No, a slot in the application frame holding a cell, or nil if no cell is selected. 06:05:53 quek 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[n=adl@77.208.73.204] has joined #lisp 08:54:57 everyone is travelling to london! 08:55:37 And no wireless in the plane or on the train. 08:56:57 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:58:39 -!- redblue [n=star@ppp025.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:58:42 How many people are expected to show up? 08:59:31 jmbr [n=jmbr@222.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:59:55 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 09:03:41 redblue [i=star@ppp092.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:03:46 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:06:46 beach: about 20 09:08:15 maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:09:48 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 09:12:33 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 09:13:36 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.214.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:14:25 That's pretty good. 09:18:16 OK, so what I did for the email parser was I wrote a program that reads octets and parses each line of the header into a field name (a string) and a field body (a vector of octets). I can then use data-driven programming to choose a client-supplied parser for the field body based on the field name. Applications that don't need to interpret the contents of the field body need not supply a parser for it. 09:20:02 -!- jewel__ [n=jewel@vc-41-27-154-106.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:23:53 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:24:04 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:04 ska [n=user@ppp-58-8-117-7.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 09:25:30 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:25:31 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp092.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Success] 09:25:53 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 09:29:30 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 09:36:22 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-207-164.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:37:33 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:38:01 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:27 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:41:38 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:57 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:48:26 loxs [n=loxs@78.90.124.182] has joined #lisp 09:50:54 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 09:53:18 redblue [i=star@ppp078.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:55:43 How come "programming" fonts look crap on lisp? 09:56:14 I fell in love with the Droid Sans font on Perl and C, but it makes lisp bulky and wide 09:56:44 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06c2b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:46 Courier New at 11pt is all I can seem to tolerate 09:56:47 good morning 09:57:08 hey serichsen 09:57:14 What looks good to you? 09:57:47 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:57:48 freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:57:51 Jafet: the Droid Sans looks good but I can't seem to focus 09:58:12 I mean, what qualities do/would you like? 09:58:19 *_3b* likes the small X fonts (6x10, fixed,etc), and proggyTiny fonts 09:58:40 _3b: I am nearly blind, 11-12 pts 09:58:44 Heh 09:58:49 I use 8x13 or so 09:59:00 <_3b> well, if i wanted bigger fonts, i'd just use the bigger versins of same things :) 09:59:22 Jafet: I am not a font person; i like Dejavu Sans Mono for reading, but not writing 09:59:48 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:59:51 -!- freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 09:59:59 the stock linux console font is more than adequate for my purposes :-) 10:00:27 Krystof: the Goldsmiths page says that the underground is out of service. Is it a good idea to try the bus replacement service mentioned there instead? 10:02:09 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:03:05 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:03:56 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 10:04:35 freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:05:06 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:06:02 -!- freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:06:32 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:09:27 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:09:28 freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:09:45 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:53 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:54 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@84.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:13:50 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-225-113.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:17:10 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:10 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:17:31 lichtblau: ah, no: best is probably to get to London Bridge, then take the mainline train to New Cross Gate (every 10 minutes, about 5 minutes' journey) 10:17:52 -!- freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:17:53 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:19:25 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@219-89-89-173.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:26:50 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:27:16 -!- jmbr 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kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:11:46 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.84.121] has joined #lisp 12:13:57 -!- jmbr_ is now known as jmbr 12:20:21 what's up, #lisp? 12:20:37 not slyrus's blog :( 12:20:49 *Xach* needs to make some kind of backoff system 12:21:27 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:22:00 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 12:22:56 hello all! 12:24:18 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:27:55 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:28:20 jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-30-100-93.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:28:52 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:28:56 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-30-66-148.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:30:55 can' I have a 'let' as the first form inside a 'dolist'? 12:31:48 sure, why not? 12:32:04 what makes you think you cannot? 12:32:19 sorry, there was some other syntax-error in there which I missed ;) 12:32:26 thanks anyways! 12:34:27 Was SBCL10 yesterday? 12:36:15 <_3b> tic: 14th/15th 12:36:48 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:11 seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:51 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BE52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:03 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BE52.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:39:17 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BE52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:42 hi, does someone use cl-gd with ccl64? i'mhaving trouble loading the foreign-library (get a BPT exception) 12:42:14 tic: don't you read planet lisp :( 12:42:27 specifically, the meeting sidebar :) 12:43:20 Sorry. I have it in my feed. Maybe I should look at the actual page more often. 12:43:41 tic: do you twitter? @lispmeetings will also tell you... 12:44:13 Xach, ah! I'm probably only following @planet_lisp. 12:44:43 No, I'm following the meetings. It was updated while I was sleeping, so I missed it in my feed. :-) 12:45:15 I see the CL-USER map is up there, too. Nice 12:45:58 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:47:38 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@213162066162.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:48:10 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:51:32 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:24 Hey #lisp. I have gotten me a climi::rgb-image-design . How on earth do I DRAW this? 12:56:20 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:56:29 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:49 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-30-100-93.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:02:38 arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has joined #lisp 13:02:52 -!- arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:07:26 -!- arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:08:56 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 13:11:32 Posterdati [n=angel@host144-230-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:11:45 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BE52.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 13:12:42 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BE52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:19 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-14478.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 13:16:25 -!- drwho 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[n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:14 -!- Aviado [n=jack@75-30-250-33.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 14:17:59 freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:18:21 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@80-123-33-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:18:40 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19:40 -!- freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:21:07 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:21:41 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:26:03 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@80-123-33-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 14:29:37 quiet and cold 14:30:27 freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:30:45 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:31:56 -!- freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:31:56 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229241089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:32:09 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229250171.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:54 freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:35:23 -!- freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:36:57 addled [n=adl@77.208.73.204] has joined #lisp 14:38:16 freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:38:36 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:46 G'morning all. 14:39:16 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:39:31 -!- freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:39:33 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["lunch"] 14:39:36 morning nyef 14:40:13 did you happen to catch my (macro1 (macro2 ...)) question last night 14:40:43 Probably not. When was it? 14:41:02 00:00 ish GMT 14:41:45 freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:42:10 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:42:25 So... about 13 hours or so ago? 14:42:29 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:42:40 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:13 ya about that 14:43:25 well no 14:43 hours 14:43:38 So, even further back? 14:43:42 ya 14:44:20 not much back there i suppose, no was around to answer, though rahul got me to clarify with (macro1 (macro2 ...) 14:44:25 macro2 returns a list 14:44:31 or expands to a list even 14:44:55 Which makes a certain amount of sense, though macros -can- expand to a single atom. 14:45:37 but it tries to pass (macro2 ...) unexpanded 14:47:32 confounds [n=confound@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:48:33 Yes, of course. 14:48:41 Macro expansion happens outside-in. 14:48:52 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.132.130] has joined #lisp 14:48:56 Allowing outer macros to treat parameters as unevaluated, which can be very helpful. 14:49:25 is the solution a compiler macro, or dump the outer macro 14:49:52 the outer one is really for convenience 14:50:00 The solution might be to have the outer macro take an &env and call macroexpand itself. 14:50:19 That is, if it really needs to manipulate the expansion of that one parameter. 14:50:25 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-30-197-122.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:52:30 (le-project::vertex-group "position" single-float (x y z) 0.0) => ("position" ((X SINGLE-FLOAT 0.0) (Y SINGLE-FLOAT 0.0) (Z SINGLE-FLOAT 0.0))) 14:53:16 l_n [n=shawn@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has joined #lisp 14:53:29 but i could just opt to send the first form to the main macro, i liked the definition hint given while using the macro though 14:53:51 instead of just a single parameter 14:53:54 -!- freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:54:38 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 14:54:58 Umm... Wait, what? You're using a macro to transform to something that isn't code? 14:55:57 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:57:46 clhs # 14:57:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dh.htm 14:57:54 is function a better/possible approach 14:58:02 Ah. Non-terminating. 14:58:54 This is one of those places where you can go about four different ways, each with their own tradeoffs. 14:59:05 And none of them are exactly -bad-. 14:59:57 what does it mean by non-terminating 15:00:01 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@80-123-33-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:00:32 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:00:49 Well, I tried to out a .#.(when ...) at the end of a list, but I needed it to be a . #.(when ...). 15:00:57 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.254.64] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:01:10 lemoinem [n=swoog@66.51.252.107] has joined #lisp 15:03:48 marioxcc [n=user@200.77.69.89] has joined #lisp 15:04:29 -!- confounds [n=confound@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 15:07:13 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 15:07:45 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:10 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:09:40 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:10:06 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:10:06 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A3781.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:10:20 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:12:49 i think i'll look into &env, cheers nyef 15:12:54 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:12:56 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-151-196-48-124.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:51 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:14:26 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.166.160.48] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:14:32 clhs &env 15:14:32 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for &env. 15:14:35 clhs &environment 15:14:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_dd.htm 15:14:42 Knew it was one of those two. 15:15:24 Guthur: Essentially, you need an &environment parameter to pass to macroexpand if you don't want to end up with the global environment. Useful in case someone has a macrolet or something. 15:15:58 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@85.125.183.36] has joined #lisp 15:16:23 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:16:28 ya i got &environment, hehe i thought you were using some well know abbreviation 15:16:57 ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-182-124.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:18:35 Typically, the &environment parameter gets called env. 15:20:58 chiiph [n=chiiph@190.1.21.180] has joined #lisp 15:20:58 -!- legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-13-172.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:21:36 hi... is there any lib to manipulate abstract polygons? I don't need to visualize them... 15:22:28 "abstract polygons"? 15:23:06 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-31-226.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:23:47 nyef: yes... may be "abstract" is not a necessary word there... 15:24:06 chiiph maybe you just want a transformation matrix 15:24:17 apply it to each vertex 15:24:37 and it will be manipulated 15:24:44 check out sb-cga 15:24:52 Guthur: yes, but since I'm having a little trouble understanding it (I know, it's sad) I was on the look for something already done... 15:24:59 are you using sbcl? 15:25:56 Guthur: I'm still not using anything, this is kind of my "way into lisp"-project 15:26:29 sb-cga can create all the required transformation matrices, its not very portable though, also there is a bug in the normalisation code but someone has a more portable version (WIP) that fixes it 15:26:48 hope i haven't put you off it, it is a decent enough library i use it myself 15:27:26 http://github.com/nikodemus/sb-cga <- original 15:28:06 Guthur: not at all... in the worst case scenario, I'll implement everything myself... and may be someone else if I can find anyone that wants to help me out :) 15:28:08 http://github.com/3b/sb-cga <- update version (still WIP though) 15:29:03 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.84.121] has left #lisp 15:29:23 try out that lib first, its good, and it has low level SSE acceleration, only on SBCL though 15:29:41 Guthur: oks... thanks... it seems it has everything I need... 15:29:50 the normalisation is broke in the original though 15:29:58 Guthur: acceleration isn't necessary for what I want to do... 15:30:15 it is (sqrt x y z), and it should be (sqrt (+ z y z)) 15:30:31 but 3b's one has that fixed 15:30:58 z y z/ x y z 15:32:13 Guthur: I guess I'll start by making the package for gentoo... :) thanks for the info... I'll probably bug you when I'm on a dead end :P 15:32:33 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 15:32:37 lots of helpful people round here for Common Lisp 15:34:14 c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:37 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:35:49 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:13 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:47 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-30-197-122.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:43:52 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:44:17 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-053-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:04 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:48:54 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 15:53:32 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.214.188] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:55:40 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 16:02:45 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-223-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:37 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:05 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BE52.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 16:06:10 balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-76-255-196-121.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:51 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:10:45 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:12:56 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:14:14 stoop [n=stoop@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:31 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.212.93] has joined #lisp 16:18:58 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:23:39 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 16:24:40 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-188.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:25:43 TDT [n=user@173-30-223-49.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:05 g'morning 16:26:23 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:28:47 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-235-135.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:47 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:28:54 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:56 davazp [n=user@24.Red-88-1-100.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:44 cvandusen [n=irchon@12.7.62.73] has joined #lisp 16:33:48 good morning TDT, what's the plan for the day? 16:35:29 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:35:38 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 16:35:55 -!- fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-166-196.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:36:21 -!- cvandusen [n=irchon@12.7.62.73] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:39:28 Ok hello again #lisp 16:39:34 I have gotten me a climi::rgb-image-design . How on earth do I DRAW this? 16:40:33 beach: writing up my paper on cl-sql, for class - then studying for the rest of the day :) 16:40:51 beach: well, cl-wordnet with cl-sql...writing about cl-sql at the very moment. 16:41:38 beach: fun stuff, how about you? 16:42:24 clim draw-design 16:42:24 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/14-5.html#_748 16:43:42 nyef: I get me some errors with the draw-design. 16:44:26 Can't help you, then, I'm afraid. 16:44:37 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:46:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/92030 this to be precise 16:46:44 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:46:59 freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:47:05 maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:48:12 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:48:14 TDT: My day is over. I spent the afternoon at a christmas lunch organized by the conulate in Bordeaux. 16:50:41 what is typical christmas food in bx? 16:50:43 Which obviously makes sense there. 16:51:03 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp019.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:52:12 tic: This was organized by the consul of Sweden and Denmark and the caterer is Danish, so it was typical Danish and some Swedish food: sill, lax, skinka, köttbullar, etc. 16:52:27 Neat. 16:52:46 -!- freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:53:22 tic: The father of the consul owns a château (Kirwan) in the Médoc (appelation Margeaux), and that's where it took place. 16:54:54 freiksenet1 [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:55:16 tic: Otherwise, typical food here would be foies gras, oysters, chapon, etc. 16:55:24 no surströmming? :) 16:55:44 guaqua: No, that would be too un-Danish for this crowd. 16:55:48 Mhm. Not very typical Swedish xmas food, indeed. :-) I was at a Christmas dinner in Linköping on Friday. 16:56:17 Ah, that sounds good! 16:56:24 beach: I've had ch. kirwan before. nice stuff! 16:56:36 slyrus_: Yeah, it's good. 16:56:39 I'm basically doing this here (draw-design pane (climi::make-rgb-image-design (image::read-image-file "foo.pnm"))) I would have expected it to work. But no :( 16:57:05 slyrus_: They served their second wine "Les charmes de Kirwan". Quite drinkable. 16:57:25 [and 1/3 of the price of their first wine] 16:57:53 when i think of danish food i think of meats and aqua vit 16:58:32 slyrus_: We did have som aquavit, but I am not a great fan. And the aquavit goes with the fish, not the meat. 16:58:54 If I could just get hold of that there retrospectiff then I could forget about all this pnm (: 16:58:59 beach, yeah, and it was nice to meet my friends in Linköping, too. 16:59:21 schme, what's retrospectiff? 16:59:34 tic: Linköping is a great place in many respects. And not such a great place in some others. 16:59:37 tic: It's some library that the tiff bitmap loading extension for mcclim requires. 17:00:14 schme: I believe slyrus_ wrote retrospectiff. 17:00:29 slyrus_: Did you write that there retrospectiff? 17:00:46 schme: indeed 17:00:50 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 17:00:55 slyrus_: Where can I get hold of it? 17:01:08 google points me to cyrusharmon.org, but that seems unaccessible. 17:02:16 schme: uh oh... must have had a power outage. i'll fix it later today, hopefully. 17:02:22 Ah cools. 17:02:33 it (the server) will be moving to a proper home in the not-too-distant-future. 17:02:40 Coolies. 17:03:00 I'll wait then. Alternative is to start digging through mcclim source and fix my issue. :) 17:03:19 which I guess I could solve by defining some method for it all. hrrrm. 17:03:33 *schme* will just pretend jpeg is a good format in the meantime. 17:04:37 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:05:04 Axius [n=ade@92.85.25.7] has joined #lisp 17:05:58 weirdo [n=sthalik@c156-35.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:06:04 hey 17:06:06 sbcl hackers 17:06:13 i mean, slime hackers 17:06:34 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.85.25.7] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:06:39 i typed in (require 'some-system), it generated lots of copious output due to COMPILE-FILE 17:06:42 There's some intersection 17:06:50 and when it was all done, it automatically jumped one screen backwards 17:06:50 schme: if you have an issue, file bugs! 17:06:58 Krystof: Where do I file bugs? 17:07:08 is it some misconfiguration on my part? 17:07:11 Krystof: I'm not even sure it is a bug :) 17:07:25 weirdo: no, just problem with how point moves 17:07:36 p_l, i see :) 17:07:41 weirdo: Sounds like a bug 17:07:54 tcr, seems long-standing, survived lots of dot.emacs revisions 17:08:01 *p_l* just hits a keybinding to move point to the end of the buffer 17:08:09 tcr: it was, like, forever there ;P 17:08:27 ? 17:08:31 weirdo pasted "slime-setup" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92032 17:08:38 schme: if you're not sure it's a bug, then post to mcclim-devel; if you are, then file at https://bugs.launchpad.net/mcclim 17:08:44 at least I had always seen that behaviour 17:09:54 I heard about it for the first time 17:10:16 I can reproduce it, still you should post about it. 17:10:30 i often get spurious point jumps, but i can't reproduce them 17:10:32 *p_l* was never bothered by that 17:11:35 stassats`: the require one is reproducible for me 17:11:46 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12:28 -!- davazp [n=user@24.Red-88-1-100.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12:59 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:13:26 davazp [n=user@235.Red-88-6-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:27 -!- davazp [n=user@235.Red-88-6-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:13:55 <_3b> is it intended that repl stops following output when focus moves to another window? 17:15:01 <_3b> (in slime that is) 17:15:11 _3b: "Yes", there's some automatic scrolling mode you should enable in that 17:15:15 I forgot how it's called. 17:15:44 *_3b* should just stop using repl is what i should do :p 17:15:56 (I'd be interested in the answer, too, because I more often want autoscrolling then not) 17:16:01 tcr: and not for me 17:16:22 I mean I'd be interested so I can enable it locally 17:16:57 i meant about require reproduction 17:17:54 stassats`: I wonder if it's possible to come up with a ,delete-fasls-for-system command 17:18:16 ,force-load-system won't cut it because of the darn recursiveness of :force 17:19:18 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.20.158] has joined #lisp 17:20:49 tcr, ok, going to post on gmane slime-devel 17:21:33 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:47 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:21:53 (asdf:output-files (make-instance 'asdf:compile-op) (car (asdf:module-components (asdf:find-system :cl-ppcre)))) seems to work 17:21:54 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:29 stassats`: that only returns on fasl file for me? 17:23:43 well, it should 17:24:48 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.20.158] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:25:02 ah ok I see 17:25:25 -!- addled [n=adl@77.208.73.204] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:25:45 stassats`: Should I post to the asdf-devel mailinglist if that's a good way to do it? Will you? 17:26:06 i'm not subscribed 17:26:22 it's exported, i think it's good 17:26:26 Alright 17:26:51 I'm happy if it does its purpose anyway :-) 17:30:53 maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:30:54 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:27 stassats`: Do you use asdf-binary-locations? 17:31:28 _icecube_ [n=icecube@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:31:33 yes 17:31:47 fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-166-196.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:47 Ok I don't, and I wondered if the above DTRT regarding A-B-L 17:32:04 it does 17:32:55 so ,reload-system would be ,delete-fasl-for-system + ,load-system 17:33:18 that's exactly what abl is doing: defining an :around method around output-files 17:33:31 so i think it's really a good way to do it 17:34:07 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:00 though, deleting user files sounds scary 17:35:56 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:36:47 <_3b> does asdf check for .lisp newer than .fasl or does it leave that up to the lisp? 17:37:05 yeah I thought about touching too 17:37:07 it does check, and recompiles 17:37:33 broken fasls however, it can't handle, and leaves up to restarts/runtime 17:37:38 Though touching the source files may result in VC bogusness? 17:37:45 i know that it records time of compilations, and then check against them 17:38:00 unix mtime probably, as in stat(2) 17:38:20 *_3b* was wondering how hard it would be to just override that check in asdf to return true for a specific system or dir or whatever 17:38:31 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-49-25.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:38:35 -!- chiiph [n=chiiph@190.1.21.180] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6.3"] 17:39:14 Axius [n=ade@92.82.80.244] has joined #lisp 17:40:21 Another way would be instead of deleting, we could rename them to $file~ 17:42:01 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.80.244] has quit [Client Quit] 17:43:22 there's operation-done-p, so one can just around it 17:43:34 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 17:44:24 if only they didn't scratch with-added-methods :-) 17:45:08 well, it can have a dynamic variable inside 17:46:13 Sure but it doesn't compose 17:46:40 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:46:46 what can you do 17:46:55 Perhaps you should use asdf:around 17:47:29 then it's we who are bitten -- but we won't bite users :-) 17:50:44 still I want ,delete-fasls-for-system 17:50:52 i posted a way to reproduce the bug to the slime-devel mailing list 17:50:58 but ,reload-system should not depend on it 17:51:00 p_l, heads up 17:57:54 HG` [n=HG@xdslea039.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:06 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:21 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:32 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 18:01:04 schme: was that you who just posted to mcclim-devel? 18:01:56 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslea039.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:58 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-76-255-196-121.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:05:30 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 18:07:08 tcr: Yes. 18:08:06 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 18:08:19 the-kenny [n=moritz@p5087D0A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:31 I like how the slime-asdf contrib grew from some convenience sugar to stuff that I now cannot live without anymore :-) 18:09:17 This lisp google map thing... I keep adding my flag. But it never seems to be there when I look. I must be doing something wrong. 18:09:21 How should the output of M-x slime-list-threads look? I'm trying to implement this function for clojure, but the output looks a bit cropped 18:10:10 Hmm.. Mine seems to look like 8: worker Running etc. 18:10:21 You want to reimplement the emacs function? 18:10:34 tcr: No, I'm extending the swank-backend for clojure. 18:10:37 <_3b> schme: try changing the page on list of entries (or try logging out) 18:10:43 schme: Okay, looks like the output is correct then. 18:10:55 <_3b> schme: or find entry on list and click on it 18:11:12 _3b: I'm a bit confused as to what you are talking about ): 18:11:16 schme: it's easy to accidentally move an entry 18:11:34 *schme* scratches his head. 18:11:52 stassats`: I'm also a bit confused as to what you are talking about there ): 18:12:25 about lisp google map, obiviously 18:12:30 OH! 18:12:39 Sorry :) 18:12:55 <_3b> schme: seems to be there 18:13:29 I wonder why I don't see it. 18:13:37 <_3b> schme: see the list of names on the left? 18:13:43 _3b: Yup. 18:13:46 <_3b> schme: if so, scroll to bottom and click page 2 18:13:48 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:13:55 <_3b> schme: or log out of google and reload the page 18:14:04 http://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/why-learning-haskell-python-makes-you-a-worse-programmer/ <--- sad but true (and harmful for me...) 18:14:07 I'm not even logged in to google :) 18:14:09 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:14:22 <_3b> schme: ah, should see it then, unless it broke for everyone now 18:14:34 ah shit I'm on it twice. 18:14:42 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:14:57 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:15:05 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:13 oh three times even. 18:15:21 <_3b> schme: ag, guess it did break for everyone, gotta switch pages :( 18:15:29 ok, i have a seemingly working version of recompile-system 18:15:44 <_3b> used to show all entries if you weren't logged in 18:15:59 ok now all is well. 18:17:10 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Success] 18:17:51 <_3b> heh, someone managed to get driving directions onto the lisp user map 18:18:17 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-27-91-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:18:23 lisp road? 18:22:16 crod [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:50 Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:58 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:23:34 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-98-204-67-114.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:17 -!- l_n [n=shawn@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:26:57 davazp [n=user@235.Red-88-6-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:46 NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-43-82-249-159-177.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:39 Axius [n=ade@92.82.80.244] has joined #lisp 18:36:48 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.80.244] has quit [Client Quit] 18:37:22 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 18:39:19 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:22 Posterdati_ [n=angel@host40-219-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:42:52 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 18:44:26 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-35-82-250-199-239.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:45:51 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 18:46:17 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 18:50:27 colton_ [n=colton@ip72-220-44-155.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:33 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:50:53 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-90.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:14 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:10 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:52:31 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:46 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@45-242.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["leaving"] 18:53:16 -!- Joreji__ [n=thomas@45-242.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["leaving"] 18:53:31 -!- Joreji_ [n=thomas@45-242.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["leaving"] 18:53:50 -!- Posterdati [n=angel@host144-230-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:54:08 What lisp books do you guys suggest? 18:54:19 minion: pcl 18:54:20 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:56:20 nineteen [n=sdi@114-45-235-129.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:54 -!- the-kenny [n=moritz@p5087D0A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 18:58:11 How do you represent 'not' in lisp like (if NOT(cdr list)), i.e., not end of list. 18:58:53 obviously, (not (cdr list)) 18:59:30 or just switch legs of IF, if there's no legs, then use UNLESS 18:59:37 colton_: definitely PCL if you already programmed in other languages, as it allows you to hit the road fast, then get on with the rest 19:00:53 -!- nineteen [n=sdi@114-45-235-129.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:07:23 francogrex [n=user@146.40-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:08:00 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:08:04 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:07 benny` [n=benny@i577A1A4B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:09:27 <_deepfire> Ok, I look at cabal and I don't see anything very special from a user POV. 19:09:51 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:57 "It just works"? 19:10:03 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:10:11 <_deepfire> Well, maybe that :-) 19:10:37 <_deepfire> I'll try to document my way through discovering its specialties. 19:11:09 _deepfire: "just works" and "makes releases damn simple" 19:11:23 <_deepfire> Akin to "Cabal through the eyes of a disillusioned ASDF user". 19:11:34 How do you and together two conditions in an if statement? 19:12:00 colton_: you wouldn't believe it, (and first-condition second-condition) 19:12:08 (if (not(cdr l1) AND (not(cdr l2) 19:12:20 and you really should start with reading Practical Common Lisp 19:12:37 (if (and (not(cdr l1) (not(cdr l2))) 19:12:41 _deepfire: you have to remember though that there's big difference between Cabal and ASDF - while Cabal includes build system, it doesn't include any kind of package management (that's done by ghc-pkg, which is invoked by cabal) 19:14:26 <_deepfire> I'm thinking about a definition-facility-agnostic system definition API suitable for higher-order tools. 19:16:59 read pcl, then amop, then clhs 19:17:04 also, paip 19:17:18 and obligatory: SICP SICP SICP SICP SICP SICP SICP SICP 19:17:32 weirdo: have you read your SICP today? 19:17:51 p_l, :) 19:17:59 <_3b> tcr: repl not following output when not focused seems to be caused by slime-presentations.el 19:18:32 <_3b> tcr: not sure if it is slime-with-output-end-mark or slime-presentation-write or both 19:18:50 *stassats`* is not surprised 19:19:17 _3b, it happens also when focused 19:19:19 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 19:19:51 <_3b> weirdo: not sure if that is the same 'it' could be same cause though 19:20:08 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:21 <_3b> s/'it' could/'it', could/ 19:21:11 <_3b> weirdo: (setq slime-write-string-function 'slime-repl-write-string) to turn that function off if you want to test though 19:21:31 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@78.25.244.155] has joined #lisp 19:21:50 hoy 19:22:02 is (1 . a) the same as (1 a)? 19:22:08 no 19:22:19 care to elaborate? 19:22:27 no 19:22:31 hehe 19:23:02 (cdr '(1 a)) => (a) whereas (cdr '(1 . a)) => a 19:23:09 colton_: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/they-called-it-lisp-for-a-reason-list-processing.html 19:23:12 -!- crod [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:23:24 any sbcl10 attendees around? 19:23:33 colton_: (list 1 a) => (1 (a . nil)) 19:23:51 rather (1 . (a . nil) 19:23:55 ) 19:24:59 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:05 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:27 postamar [n=postamar@69-165-151-234.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:28 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:26:29 right 19:28:15 Bobrobyn [n=rsmith05@guestlaptop-18.cis.uoguelph.ca] has joined #lisp 19:28:51 <_3b> tcr: possibly using insert-before-markers instead of insert in first clause of case in slime-presentation-write fixes it 19:29:25 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:04 i remember that it would break it in other places 19:31:16 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 19:31:27 l_n [n=shawn@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has joined #lisp 19:31:46 nikodemus: made it to this country, then? 19:31:46 if you're at your hotel, you are there earlier than I expected 19:31:52 I hope martin and foom have made it there too 19:34:15 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@167.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:35:57 Krystof: at the hotel indeed 19:36:30 according to the desk james and attila are here, so presumably martin too :) 19:36:52 aintme [n=user@29.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:36:52 but they're not in, so i guess i'll have to go forage for food on my lonesome 19:37:39 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@154.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:38:51 good luck 19:38:56 and everyone appears to be too privacy conscious to put their cell number on the interwebs 19:39:00 there are some nice eateries around Greenwich 19:39:00 oh well 19:39:50 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:39:54 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:54 -!- kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:40:50 see you tomorrow! 19:40:54 enjoy 19:42:30 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:43:16 -!- l_n [n=shawn@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has left #lisp 19:47:56 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@78.25.244.155] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:50:31 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@78.25.244.155] has joined #lisp 19:52:42 rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:58 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 19:53:56 balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-76-255-196-121.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:19 nikodemus: but not privacy conscious enough to not have shared them on IRC 19:57:42 _3b, well, yes, it works with your fix 19:57:54 p_l, does it work for you? 19:58:02 :-) 19:58:11 <_3b> weirdo: which fix? 20:01:04 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@adsl-76-255-196-121.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:01:06 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:01:12 <_3b> (the SETQ or the modified slime-presentation-write) 20:01:18 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:41 niko22 [n=fr33fall@117-246-dsl.kielnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:53 -!- Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:01:55 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:55 is the fix in CVS? 20:02:45 pjb [n=t@152.Red-79-149-152.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:15 anyone else have any last-minute questions? 20:03:46 -!- niko22 [n=fr33fall@117-246-dsl.kielnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:03:57 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:04:01 (cons '(2 3 4) '(3 4 6 4)) => ((2 3 4) 3 4 6 4). How do you create (2 3 4 3 4 6 4)? 20:05:00 Krystof: Will there be videos of the lightning talks? 20:05:22 colton_: APPEND? 20:05:39 clhs append 20:05:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_append.htm 20:05:46 yeah, thx. 20:06:25 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-053-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:07:17 c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:05 nyef: if there are, they won't be high-quality 20:09:38 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:41 niko22 [n=fr33fall@117-246-dsl.kielnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:42 Clearly, I'm going to have to set things up so that I can actually attend the next SBCL anniversary party^H^H^H^H^Hworkshop. 20:10:53 Demosthenes [n=demo@64.241.37.140] has joined #lisp 20:11:12 have it located at your house? 20:11:37 -!- niko22 [n=fr33fall@117-246-dsl.kielnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:12:23 More like get my passport renewed. 20:12:43 nyef: do something crazy to get UN passport :P 20:12:44 And make sure I can spare the cost of the airfare... or seafare. 20:13:40 davazp` [n=user@235.Red-88-6-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:44 that's the big problem, yes 20:14:19 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:14:52 if you have it at your house that should be easy 20:15:03 maybe our next celebration can be held over the internet 20:15:13 with haptic technologies for those who want to get touchy-feely 20:15:18 even better, make it a giant teleconference ;-) 20:15:26 (with video and sound) 20:15:37 Right, *surely* by 2020, video conferencing will work. 20:15:48 it's only been promised for something like 20 years, already. 20:16:03 2020? Surely you mean 2019? 20:17:10 :inexact 20:17:54 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:18:17 what is the difference between car and first? 20:19:06 foom2: videoconferences tend to work, but setting them is a pain, especially if you end up with a "consumer" ISP (or such a connection at all) 20:19:11 foom2: It's almost obscenely surprising how bad it is, isn't it? 20:19:39 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:20:13 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:20:17 colton_: The names and their connotations to a human observer. 20:21:24 -!- davazp` [n=user@235.Red-88-6-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:23:52 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:44 rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:27:13 -!- Patzy 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[n=resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 21:47:45 francogrex [n=user@146.40-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:48:04 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:48:05 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:23 hey guys, anyone uses corman lisp? I'm trying to quit I tried (quit), :quit, :exit, nothing works! 21:49:12 rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 21:49:13 francogrex, (apropos 'quit) (apropos 'exit) 21:49:18 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 21:49:31 maybe 'abort 21:49:46 esden [n=esdentem@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:48 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 21:49:49 metric [n=metric@209-20-86-67.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:49 kuwabara [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has joined #lisp 21:49:57 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 21:49:57 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 21:49:59 guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 21:49:59 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 21:50:02 aking [n=aking@67.23.13.119] has joined #lisp 21:50:17 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-197-242.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:32 I got it in a /msg just now, it's (win32::exitprocess 0)... go figure! 21:52:49 lnostdal: yes, (apropos 'exit) gives the option. thanks 21:53:34 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [Killed by reynolds.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 21:53:38 -!- kuwabara [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [Killed by reynolds.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 21:53:38 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:38 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:38 kuwabara [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.fr] has joined #lisp 21:53:38 Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 21:53:38 jrockway [n=jrockway@67.207.145.149] has joined #lisp 21:53:38 spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 21:53:38 _deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 21:53:38 fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 21:53:38 _3b` [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:38 guenthr_ [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:38 trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:40 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:43 jrockway_ [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 21:53:49 vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:49 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 21:54:00 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@67.207.145.149] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:54:25 kuwabara1 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has joined #lisp 21:54:28 -!- kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:54:28 fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 21:54:31 -!- isomer`` [n=isomer@66.78.97.66] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:55:00 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:05 -!- guenthr_ [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:55:28 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:55:38 footurist [n=boo@89-180-66-51.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 21:55:56 -!- footurist [n=boo@89-180-66-51.net.novis.pt] has left #lisp 21:56:06 I thought (quit) was in the standards. It seems it's implementation specific. I wonder why? 21:56:24 there are many threads about that in c.l.l 21:56:34 francogrex: How do you quit a LispOS? 21:56:56 nyef: there is no such thing as LispOS 21:56:57 -!- konr` [n=user@201.82.128.190] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:57:02 heh 21:57:12 francogrex: Tell that to Genera, ZetaLisp, Movitz, etc. 21:57:25 -!- konr [n=user@201.82.128.190] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:57:33 there all living in an imaginary world 21:57:40 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:48 but seriously, how? 21:58:05 How what? 21:58:19 how do u quit in lispOS? 21:58:30 pull the wire 21:59:25 I wish I could use a lispOS. Is anyone of of those bootable from a USb stick? 21:59:34 francogrex, (labels ((quit () (cons (quit) (quit))) (quit))) 21:59:47 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-146-24.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 22:00:05 Adlai: That's closer to a fork bomb than a shutdown. 22:00:17 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host254.190-137-188.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:00:29 nyef: so, between a vague plan for SSA-style regalloc and just as vauge plans for a new-style of IR1 source-to-source transforms, what sounds better? 22:00:31 francogrex: ZetaLisp and Genera required special hardware. Movitz might be bootable from a USB stick in a pinch... 22:00:48 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 22:01:04 pkhuong: What would the advantage of the new source-to-source transforms be? 22:01:21 pinch? 22:01:58 francogrex: usually quit also takes a small integer to return.. would that even make sense in a LispOS? :) 22:02:00 francogrex: Idiom, sorry. "if you had to". 22:02:00 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:02:24 -!- kuwabara [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:44 nyef: we would be able to perform the optimisation on (setf (subseq) (subseq)), and not have to worry too much about conflicting transforms. 22:02:45 francogrex: how do you quit linux? 22:02:54 shutdown -h now 22:02:56 ;) 22:03:06 Then translate that to lisp. 22:03:15 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:03:21 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:03:26 francogrex: You might have a better time running movitz on some x86 emulator than actually putting it on a stick. 22:03:27 pjb: poweroff or shutdown 22:03:36 Anyway, the point was, there is sufficient diversity of lisp implementations that standardizing a "quit" mechanism makes no sense. 22:03:45 nyef: there are two orthogonal issues I want to address: source-to-source transforms are run bottom-up, so we throw semantic information awayquickly with inlining transforms 22:04:14 schme: why? it was made to run on the bare architecture right, when u do,'t have an os 22:04:16 pkhuong: I had a thought to do "modular arithmetic" for chains of sequence manipulations, effectively doing a "deforestation"ish thing 22:04:20 and we have a simple-minded triggering mechanism that doesn't attempt to look at whole expressions. 22:04:53 francogrex: It's not really useable for much at the moment. Seems better to use an emulator when developing it and for it. 22:05:12 Krystof: hard to make it work when nearly all the sequence operations are inlined into loops. 22:05:18 SSA might be cool, but improvements to the source transform stuff sounds like it might have a better payoff. 22:05:28 francogrex: and it is quite possible that it doesn't really support the hardware you try to run it on. 22:06:43 -!- udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:06:48 nyef: it's only for regalloc... I'll probably try and prepare some slides anyway because the idea is so simple. 22:07:05 Has anyone thought about better tool support for working on the compiler, such as something to verify VOP argument lifetimes make sense, or that source transforms always produce valid results when they are eligable to be triggered? 22:07:22 schme: so it's useless; it's a shame 22:08:19 nyef: is there like a separate document describing the VOP syntax (I mean the assembly synbtax used by sbcl)? 22:08:38 francogrex: It's a hobby project OS at the moment. You can't really expect too much of it. What you could do is dedicate some time and love for it and make it top o the line. 22:08:53 nyef: I think it's the SML team that had an interpreter for each intermediate representation; they'd then use a binary search on the number of transforms to detect the faulty transformation. 22:09:00 francogrex: You're looking for something like a compiler hackers guide? I'm afraid there's not much more than bits and pieces so far as I'm aware. 22:10:15 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:10:29 francogrex: You could buy an alpha an run genera no problem. 22:11:08 And there are emulators for the TI and MIT hardware if you want to run ZetaLisp. 22:11:17 schme: buy an alpha? where would that be found, I doubt it will be in the local store next to my house 22:11:32 I even seem to remember something about genera running on a x86-64 linux. 22:11:42 francogrex: Seeing how HP killed the thing off.. I guess ebay :) 22:11:55 Ahh, snap4? I never did try that after getting a working x86-64 linux system... 22:12:20 I'm not sure. It was some .. highly spam filled wiki. 22:13:45 oh yes snap4 it is. 22:14:31 nyef: the problem with infrastructure is that we're academics ;) we don't do infrastructure. 22:14:55 Heh. 22:15:36 -!- prxq [n=mommer@g227029080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:15:43 SBCL -is- infrastructure. 22:15:45 obneq [n=lukas@80-219-169-85.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:16:18 pkhuong: where are you staying, by the way? 22:16:30 nyef: bits and pieces are ok, is everytthing in the sbcl manual or are there other sites? 22:16:47 francogrex, there's http://sbcl-internals.cliki.net 22:17:12 nikodemus: some hotel on cromwell road. 22:17:23 Package deal through expedia 22:17:27 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:52 pkhuong: yay Microsoft! 22:18:32 francogrex: Some stuff in the internals cliki, some stuff in the internals manual, some stuff spread out amongst various developer sites. 22:18:33 *nikodemus* considers a lightning talk / hack on compile-slot-value-using-class 22:18:40 Pretty good, except for the part where I'm paying 20 pounds for a week's worth of internet. 22:19:24 pkhuong: lucky you! here it's 10 pounds / 24h 22:19:32 francogrex: http://www.lisphacker.com/codex/001-sbcl-vops.txt is a small piece on VOP argument lifetimes, for example. 22:20:20 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:20:42 francogrex: there's also doc/internals, which has a few things 22:21:21 most of cmucl design manual is applicable still -- as long as you can wrap your head around the continuation -> lvar/ctran change 22:24:54 That reminds me, is there some way to tell the storage allocator that two TNs have to maintain a particular TN-OFFSET ordering? 22:25:21 i have no idea, but i bet pkhuong does :) 22:25:43 nyef: wire them? 22:25:49 right. I'm going to bed 22:25:53 see many of you tomorrow, hopefully 22:26:06 Apart from that, I don't know. lichtblau's sb-regpair hack would be much neater if we could. 22:26:25 erh, no, that's another issue. 22:26:26 pkhuong: Something worries me about the idea of wiring stack TNs. 22:26:46 At least, beyond the standard arg-passing locations. 22:26:51 *Krystof* wishes everyone luck with London rush-hour commuting 22:27:28 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:27:30 *nikodemus* hopes his sincere belief that this is close enough to walk isn't mistaken 22:27:50 you're fine. People in South West London... not so much 22:29:13 you have a vaguely unpleasant 30 minute or so walk 22:29:22 I'll try to hit the tube before 8h. 22:29:25 other people get to use the tube 22:29:34 *Krystof* crosses fingers for you 22:29:48 and of course irony will probably strike, and _I_ will be delayed on the way in 22:29:53 see you tomorrow 22:30:34 what's so bad about london's public transport? 22:30:55 hideous infrastructure due to organic growth? (Wait...) 22:31:05 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:13 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:36:28 davazp` [n=user@79.Red-79-159-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:29 -!- francogrex [n=user@146.40-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:38:20 heh, http://sbcl-internals.cliki.net/One%20Point%20Zero 22:38:53 -!- plage [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-101.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:39:05 plage [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-101.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:40:25 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:42:30 -!- krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:42:30 -!- rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:42:30 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:42:31 feel free to update it to 1.1 :) 22:43:13 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:20 well, this is going to be epic. No scanner, no tablet and no ruler. No pencil either. 22:44:26 rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 22:48:11 pkhuong: Oh? 22:48:27 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:48:37 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:49:02 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:50 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:55:06 -!- davazp [n=user@252.Red-88-8-229.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:57:15 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:01:00 -!- drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:03:10 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:03:25 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:07:37 Tordek [n=tordek@host188.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:09:53 ruediger_ [n=quassel@93-82-1-123.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:11:10 ck [n=ck@24.144.224.87] has joined #lisp 23:11:31 -!- ck is now known as Guest29952 23:12:34 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:13:37 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-182-124.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:13:39 -!- ruediger_ is now known as ruediger 23:20:01 drwho [n=d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:49 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:22:59 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-69-138.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:23:41 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:24:06 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:27:05 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-67-170-39-104.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:32:03 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-175-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:32:07 -!- Guest29952 [n=ck@24.144.224.87] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:33:30 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:33:34 brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:33:42 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:31 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:46:51 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:48:39 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@114-45-235-129.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:49:36 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229250171.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 23:49:51 -!- davazp` [n=user@79.Red-79-159-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:50:23 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:32 -!- xan [n=xan@13.Red-83-36-170.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]