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Quit] 01:43:39 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 01:47:04 -!- prxq [n=mommer@f050202208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:48:10 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:49:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 01:49:12 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:49:21 saikatc_ [n=saikatc@c-69-181-45-251.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:23 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-gwoyfarfnbuzwgof] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:50:19 a quick sanity Q... what is the best common lisp for .NET ? 01:50:45 none? 01:50:47 sanity lies in .. if there really was one or not 01:50:52 minion: rdnzl? 01:50:52 rdnzl: http://weitz.de/rdnzl/ 01:51:29 ruediger_ [n=quassel@93.82.1.140] has joined #lisp 01:51:42 quodlibetor [n=user@76.15.195.230] has joined #lisp 01:52:19 ok i see.. i just been playing with ABCL mixed with IKVM.. its a little slow.. so i was debating seeing if some parts were dirrectly ported if i'd get speed 01:52:40 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:52:48 amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@64.134.238.134] has joined #lisp 01:53:02 funny though.. in practical use RDNZL allows the non .NET thunking to be fast as the impl allows 01:53:15 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 01:53:40 (so ACL .. being fast stays fast) 01:54:05 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.245.136] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:55:42 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 01:56:11 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:46 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:58:47 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-66-168.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:59:05 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:27 -!- l_n [n=shawn@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 02:01:05 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.245.136] has joined #lisp 02:03:18 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-69-181-45-251.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:03:19 -!- saikatc_ is now known as saikatc 02:06:17 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d86-33-115-65.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:07:18 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:30 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.245.136] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 02:09:53 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 02:10:47 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:11:05 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 02:11:24 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:11:40 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225] has joined #lisp 02:11:44 -!- amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@64.134.238.134] has quit [Client Quit] 02:15:18 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:15:30 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 02:15:49 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:16:33 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 02:18:29 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:19:52 dmiles_afk: I'm thinking of using native mscorlib.dll interface for a replacement of RDNZL 02:20:46 -!- ruediger_ [n=quassel@93.82.1.140] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:21:12 might be better solution than going through Managed C++ 02:21:14 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-69-181-45-251.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:21:46 p_l: isnt RDNZL techically a friendly wrapper arround mscorlib.dll? 02:21:53 oh i see yweah they added one extra layer 02:22:21 a way to decide when to pin gc_news 02:22:25 dmiles_afk: RDNZL is basically a FFI interface written in Managed C++ and exporting methods from that level 02:23:01 with direct mscorlib FFI I could support all .NET versions, from 1.1 to 4.0 and Mono as well 02:23:32 (well, I'd need separate backend for Mono cause it got different API, but still...) 02:23:38 you might still try to use the same lisp documenation for the programmer written for rdnzl? 02:23:56 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:01 dmiles_afk: I was definitely thinking of making a "RDNZL-COMPAT" interface 02:24:29 p_l: yeah. thats what i was asking 02:24:30 -!- quodlibetor [n=user@76.15.195.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:24:39 p_l: nice 02:24:46 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:24:47 QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 02:24:58 i kinda got abcl using the jlinker API to .NET 02:25:35 it preferse to call "System.Int32" "java.lang.Integer" .. working on that 02:25:46 dmiles_afk: I have most of the tools needed prepared, except time and money to live :-) 02:25:51 even though really they are "System.Int32" 02:25:52 (and place to live, as well) 02:26:03 QinGW2 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 02:26:25 p_l: i have too many todos as well 02:27:21 satiricon [n=david@190.51.119.50] has joined #lisp 02:27:45 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@adsl-76-235-169-202.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:27:51 p_l: trying to prioritize... making ABCL bypass IKVM.. or just accept the IKVM interface 02:28:05 hello there 02:28:19 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-76.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 02:29:04 I am here to make a question that posibly has a very simple answer 02:29:23 I have not found info google about it 02:29:26 p_l: but making a lowerlevel rdnzl sounds neat 02:29:34 -!- jleija [n=jleija@24.214.122.46] has quit ["leaving"] 02:29:47 someone knows what the function make-node does? 02:30:11 very sorry for my very poor english ^^ 02:30:30 makes a new instance of a structure NODE? 02:31:00 that was pretty obvious, but wich parameters it takes? 02:31:04 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:31:37 you ask me? that wasn't me who defined your structure 02:31:42 you should know better 02:32:09 ho, I was asking because I tought it was a standard function 02:32:25 built in the language 02:32:25 clhs defstruct 02:32:37 no, it's not 02:32:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defstr.htm 02:33:34 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:33:53 ok, I have a defstruct defining the structure node, but in the manual I am reading it makes extensive use of the function make-node but it never defines it 02:34:15 read the above link 02:34:34 ok thanks 02:35:32 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Success] 02:36:03 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 02:37:42 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-197-145.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:50 sorry but if I understod well, the function gets somehow defined when I define the structure? =| 02:38:59 right 02:39:14 dmiles_afk: well, lowerlevel *fast* bridge (so no sockets, fast copying + shared mem.) is just the beginning 02:39:15 nice... =) 02:39:24 thank you 02:39:32 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-96.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:40:21 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-241.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 02:41:12 dmiles_afk: on top of that would be high-level API 02:42:19 I find that I like writing documentation as much as I like coding. 02:42:19 retupmoca [n=retupmoc@adsl-76-235-169-202.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:52 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:45:21 -!- Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-76.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:45:25 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:46:09 *p_l* ponders why no-one tried writing implementation of C++ ABI in CL... 02:48:20 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:48:23 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:17 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:50:17 p_l: Good taste? 02:53:41 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:43 nyef: sometimes you have to sacrifice something... 02:56:58 Small forest animals? 02:58:06 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-96-224-31-174.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:01:32 quodlibetor [n=user@pool-70-107-155-82.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:19 c|mell [n=cmell@82.31.207.41] has joined #lisp 03:02:51 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:02:52 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.245.136] has joined #lisp 03:02:59 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:03:06 nyef: you know... demangling C++ symbols isn't that hard... 03:03:19 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357571.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:03:23 I know. 03:03:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 03:03:41 Last time it came up, I could sight-read them with no real knowledge of the encoding. 03:03:54 *p_l* cheated and used binutils 03:04:02 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:04:35 does common lisp have reference/pointer semantics in any way? searching for them tends to give me cltl or pointers on how to use cl 03:04:58 Seriously, it was an ascii representation of the length of an identifier followed by that many characters of identifier, with some random letters to indicate what part of the full function name the identifier was attached to... 03:05:21 quodlibetor: In common lisp, everything is a value. But, most of the values are references. 03:06:08 When your program sees a CONS cell, what it has is a reference or pointer to the CONS itself. 03:06:50 In the CAR of the cons is one of a small number of immediate value types (fixnums, characters, etc.) or another pointer/reference. 03:07:51 hm 03:09:04 so, if I were implementing a tree, I would maybe create a struct with child/parent symbols (instead of pointers) and do things that way? 03:09:39 I think I would have to know exactly how my cl implementation references everything in order to be able to pull that off 03:10:29 (where references everything means when exactly values are changed and when references are changed) 03:11:02 quodlibetor: you wouldn't need anything, it would be transparent 03:12:11 quodlibetor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cons#Trees 03:13:18 p_l: I can do a simple tree, I guess that was a bad example because they do map extremely cleanly to lisp, really what I'm doing right now is something pretty similar to a digital trie 03:16:08 p_l: which requires explicit reference to other (non-child) elements of the trie 03:17:05 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-34-81.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:17:16 quodlibetor: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/01e485291d150938/9aacb626fa26c516 <--- this thread might help 03:17:35 -!- satiricon [n=david@190.51.119.50] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:18:27 p_l: oh, wow, thanks 03:19:02 p_l: that should indeed show me everything I need, and demonstrate that I was trying too hard 03:20:24 quodlibetor: also, when you need a reference, just refer to that object - you could say that every "name" is a reference/pointer, just implementation might sometimes unbox them earlier when it's sure it's correct behaviour 03:20:47 -!- QinGW2 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Success] 03:21:34 NazariusK [n=Nazarius@c122-108-8-126.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:21:37 -!- NazariusK [n=Nazarius@c122-108-8-126.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:22:02 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-74-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:22:29 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 03:25:21 p_l: not sure that I'm clear how to do that, say, for example, that I have an element whose key is deep in the trie, I think the only way to operate on this is to provide functions on that struct; instead of, say, returning a reference to the element 03:25:59 I'm not sure that there's anything that is less powerful about that (which is why it took me so long to write) but is does that make sense? 03:26:46 p_l: or, would I do (let ((elem (find trie key))) ;do something with elem) 03:27:29 p_l: and expect elem to be mutable within the trie 03:29:11 bfein_ [n=bfein@pool-74-104-157-229.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:20 anyone know if there is any built in support for multi-dimensional displaced arrays? I didn't see any, so my hopes aren't that high, but I figured I'd ask on here 03:33:33 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:33:45 bfein_: There is support, after a fashion. The issue is that you end up with a row-major slice of the underlying array and then the dimensions are applied over that. 03:34:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 03:34:18 Essentially, no proper array slicing. 03:34:33 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 03:34:53 so if I have an array which is 100x100, and I want to represent a 5x5 window in it, I can't do it with the built in support? 03:35:00 That said, I do have a couple ideas on how to add it to SBCL, and I'm sure there's some library that provides wrappers around arrays that do what you want. 03:35:21 meh, its not that important, I can work around it, just would have been slightly handier if it was there 03:35:29 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:54 Yeah, same here. It would have been handier, but it can be worked around. 03:36:11 It can -always- be worked around, even if it involves an extra array-copy or two sometimes. 03:36:59 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:36:59 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 03:40:28 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit ["Asta-la byebye"] 03:41:18 baddog [n=baddog@110.32.142.113] has joined #lisp 03:41:18 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:41:23 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:41:31 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:48 -!- balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:43:02 bfein_: if you are happy with FFI, GSL supports matrix views (and GSLL might have nice interface to it) 03:43:43 -!- eldragon [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has left #lisp 03:48:59 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:53:56 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:54:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 03:59:51 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:00:29 -!- huangjs` [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:08:17 Faper [n=Jaylen@d192-24-134-89.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 04:08:49 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:08:56 hi 04:09:53 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:59 -!- quodlibetor [n=user@pool-70-107-155-82.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:13:57 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tabwnfrgtezyzeyu] has joined #lisp 04:14:31 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-191.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 04:16:48 quodlibetor [n=user@76.15.195.230] has joined #lisp 04:21:26 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d86-33-115-65.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 04:21:45 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 04:22:21 reptar [i=89cfe839@gateway/web/freenode/x-cubbymmccteybwrz] has joined #lisp 04:25:02 -!- reptar [i=89cfe839@gateway/web/freenode/x-cubbymmccteybwrz] has quit [] 04:25:44 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-241.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:27:45 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host11.190-137-241.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:28:28 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:29:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 04:29:38 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:31:46 amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@67.169.77.79] has joined #lisp 04:32:43 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@140a.hackerdojo.com] has quit [] 04:34:23 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:34:36 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:35 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 04:41:09 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:25 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-197-145.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:45:04 -!- TDT [n=user@206.196.111.202] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:45:55 -!- kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:49:29 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Success] 04:50:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 04:51:07 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.66.25.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:55:13 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:55:43 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:00:29 Good morning! 05:01:11 -!- Faper [n=Jaylen@d192-24-134-89.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [] 05:01:19 Hello Faper. New here? 05:02:12 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.212.97] has joined #lisp 05:07:43 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:10:15 -!- redblue [n=star@ppp156.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 05:12:07 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has joined #lisp 05:12:22 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:12:50 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:54 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Success] 05:16:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 05:27:23 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 05:27:42 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:42 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:28:05 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 05:29:16 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 05:32:21 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:47 Darko [n=u10@unaffiliated/darko] has joined #lisp 05:33:54 -!- Darko [n=u10@unaffiliated/darko] has left #lisp 05:36:05 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:36:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 05:42:44 -!- mcspiff`` [n=user@142.68.158.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:43:26 -!- baddog [n=baddog@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:43:47 kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 05:44:18 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-101-205.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:44:24 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:45:23 baddog [n=baddog@110.32.142.113] has joined #lisp 05:45:35 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-101-205.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:46 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:50:34 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-213.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 05:59:30 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 06:00:29 -!- Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-191.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:07:09 I can't seem to recall how to do this.. I know I've done it before... I'm making a macro to generate 2 defuns. One of them will have -p appended to the name as the default. How do I get the -p appended without changing the name into a string? 06:08:21 clhs intern 06:08:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_intern.htm 06:08:28 ericjames [n=ericjeld@24.144.136.246] has joined #lisp 06:09:54 ah, I had figured that would do the same thing as make-symbol (except interned instead of not interned), but I see that it does what I want, thanks 06:10:43 now that I think about it, I suppose an interned symbol would be good :) 06:11:46 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 06:12:14 like you have any choice 06:12:38 right, wasn't thinking 06:13:43 <_3b> sure you have a choice, (defun #:foo ()) works just fine :) 06:15:44 heh, it does let you define it. I suppose the only way to call it would be to hold on to the return value? 06:16:13 <_3b> or hold onto the symbol before you define it (in a macroexpansion for example) 06:16:41 <_3b> or with the reader 06:16:45 yeah 06:18:13 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 06:20:47 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:47 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:21:24 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.212.97] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:21:40 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 06:23:30 DrForr_ [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:19 -!- DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:45:57 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:46:11 ASau` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 07:02:33 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-144-233.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:04:35 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 07:07:12 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:04 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:12:49 obneq [n=lukas@80.219.169.85] has joined #lisp 07:13:48 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:13:53 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:57 -!- amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@67.169.77.79] has quit [Client Quit] 07:19:39 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-136-255.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:20:49 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d86-33-115-65.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:22:01 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:22:25 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:23:14 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32D4E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:44 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has joined #lisp 07:26:37 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-159.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 07:37:00 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:37:52 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-213.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:37:54 nipra [n=nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 07:38:19 -!- cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:38:43 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 07:38:47 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:42:01 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:24 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e195-148.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 07:44:57 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:13 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 07:46:44 ASau [n=user@77.246.231.50] has joined #lisp 07:51:33 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@80.14.131.214] has joined #lisp 07:51:39 good morning 07:51:41 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229176237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:53:48 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:56:52 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:57:01 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:58:42 -!- Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-159.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 07:58:45 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:59:47 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:01:15 -!- baddog [n=baddog@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:04:42 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:04:58 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e195-148.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:06:15 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 08:06:47 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:07:00 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:46 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 08:10:08 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:11:28 -!- kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:12:35 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-144-233.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:16:51 -!- quodlibetor [n=user@76.15.195.230] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 08:18:22 So... if I want to try out slime, what Emacs (22 or 23) and what other libs do I need/want? will clbuild pull the proper things for me automagically? 08:19:12 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 08:19:27 yes 08:19:48 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-253-86.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:19 Good. 08:20:23 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:20:51 I recommend Emacs 23 08:21:00 Then I'll upgrade. 08:21:03 You only need SBCL, Emacs, and a slime checkout. 08:21:32 tic: It doesn't matter much wrt. slime whether Emacs22 or Emacs23, but Emacs23 in general is just much more pleasant to use 08:21:34 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:20 You can use clbuild, but that may still come with some weird .emacs bit 08:22:47 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has joined #lisp 08:23:12 There wasn't an Emacs23 in my Ubuntu repos, so I'll continue using 22. 08:25:53 tic: oh there is, it's called emacs-snapshot 08:26:28 I found it. 08:26:32 *tic* updates. 08:26:43 I hope elisp-lyskom client will continue working after this. 08:27:29 stassats`: For some reason, I cannot mentally grok (unless (or A B) ..) but always have to mentally transform that to (when (and (not A) (not B)) ...) in my mind so I can understand it. So I actually prefer writing the latter for the former. 08:28:04 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 08:28:37 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:28:47 I guess that's a peculiarity of mine? 08:29:30 I should train myself to read (unless (or A B) ...) as "Do if neither A nor B" 08:29:45 I also have problems reading that. 08:30:06 what's unreadable about "Do unless a or b?" 08:30:35 Ralith: There's no pendant in German, my mother tongue 08:31:02 so I haven't developed the wires for that I guess :-) 08:31:10 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:31:21 What does pendant mean here? 08:31:58 analogous word 08:32:18 for "unless"? 08:32:20 tcr: well, think of it as when not, then? 08:32:35 mentally evaluate the or first, then the not, then the when. 08:32:35 simple 08:32:41 Ralith, that's what he does, didn't he just say that? :-) 08:32:55 no 08:32:58 he said something quite different 08:32:59 :P 08:33:08 You have to mentally apply de morgan in that case 08:33:19 my point is you *don't* have to. 08:33:27 (not (or ...)) is perfectly comprehensible. 08:33:31 Bah you're just weird :-) 08:33:39 >_> 08:33:56 tcr: also, i haven't included the change from 'bold to 'underline in fuzzy completions, they both look ok to me 08:34:50 stassats`: I don't mind, I found underlining to result in cleaner representation at my previous work place 08:35:31 and i've actually never used this information 08:35:40 rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-120-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 08:35:42 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-118-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:36:14 stassats`: If you have time, you should move converting-errors-to-location from swank-sbcl.lisp to swank-backend.lisp and use that in swank-allegro.lisp (and other swank backends, though on an incremental basis) 08:36:39 stassats`: Yeah I think I made that underline because I found underline to be less obtrusive 08:36:40 noted 08:37:21 I just filled in the forms to subscribe slime-cvs to gmane 08:38:28 minion: memo for rpg: stassats just committed a patch for modern-mode friendliness in swank-asdf.lisp. 08:38:28 Remembered. I'll tell rpg when he/she/it next speaks. 08:38:57 lispworks-backend hooks defimplementation to record locations, it's easy to do so with ccl too, but then i thought, why not make defimplementation on methods 08:39:29 trebor_dki [n=user@130.83.156.186] has joined #lisp 08:39:29 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:39:48 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:09 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 08:40:30 We did that in past, iirc. I have no idea why heller changed it. Blame, and look at the commit log. 08:41:36 ok, but i didn't find an easy way to hook source locations in SBCL 08:42:24 the lambda in defimplementation's expansion should also contain a BLOCK with the function's name 08:43:11 perhaps i should open a ticket wishing for simply (sb-xx:record-source-location name 'function) 08:43:26 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:43:39 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 08:45:13 I have plans in that direction, though differently. 08:45:54 I wouldn't bother for now. But the case that backends do have to do such frobbery is a case in favor of just using gfs 08:47:13 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:50:49 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-169-240.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:51:30 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:43 Good morning! 08:53:16 good morning spiaggia 08:54:07 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:54:16 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:56:28 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:42 hello spiaggia 08:57:09 hey mvilleneuve 08:57:46 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:58:27 bpr [n=user@cpe-72-231-172-136.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:57 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:00:05 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:54 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:01:07 in the code here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/91895 SBCL is deleting "unreachable" code, and I can't figure out why 09:01:19 the second annotation has a copy of the compiler output 09:02:18 for example the form (1+ iter) is being deleted... *shrug* 09:03:25 the code on the paste is incomplete, it's hard to tell 09:03:46 -!- delYsid` is now known as delYsid 09:04:09 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:20 bpr: Look into the slime-repl if the notes printed there have more context 09:04:41 they don't. the only notes printed are the 10 listed 09:04:46 you copied from the *SLIME Compilation* buffer; perhaps there's some truncating taking place 09:04:55 "deleting unreachable code" 09:05:04 No I'm talking about the context "--> ..." 09:06:06 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:06:07 don't the loops inside the PROGN never terminate? 09:07:07 oh, sbcl solves the halting problem? 09:07:14 yeah that would be true lol 09:07:27 not the halting prob haha 09:07:37 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e195-148.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:09:22 bpr: You could make life easier for your reader by replacing `for iter = 0 then (1+ iter)' by `for iter from 0' and `(eq ... nil)' by `(null ...)'. 09:09:25 hebz0rl [n=hebz0rl@dslb-088-065-063-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:01 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:10:04 ...and I would complain about indentation, but last time I did, it turns out it was a problem with my Firefox. 09:10:34 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 09:10:57 spiaggia: yeah, i'm sure my cl is not very idiomatic :-/ 09:11:04 but thanks for the tips 09:11:17 -!- hebz0rl [n=hebz0rl@dslb-088-065-063-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 09:11:26 your code looks very imperative 09:11:40 as they say, one can program fortran in any programming language 09:13:21 bpr: What is the argument of mkqueue? 09:13:23 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 09:13:36 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:39 jdz: yeah, this block is incredibly imperitive because I've esentially translated it from a formal writup of an algorithm 09:14:05 I wanted to be sure it was translated correctly (non-terminating loops notwithstanding haha) 09:14:11 spiaggia: a list 09:14:30 bpr: I kind of guessed that, but what is its significance? 09:15:25 my q code builds a cons cell with the car pointing to the list and the cdr pointing to the last cons in the list 09:15:43 so i'm simpling initializing an empty q there 09:15:49 simply* 09:16:05 bpr: If the list is empty, there is not last cons cell. 09:17:13 s/not/no/ 09:17:15 right, my q-push handles that 09:18:04 bpr: I was asking, abstractly, seen from client code, what does that argument mean? Like, what do you put in the documentation? Or like what is the api of your queue code? 09:18:24 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:18:40 bpr: But you answered my question. There is no real API; it's all about implementation. 09:18:54 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:19:16 the list handed to the mkqueue is the sequence of elements in the queue initially 09:19:24 '() means none 09:20:44 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:45 -!- shrughes [n=shrughes@c-65-96-172-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:21:11 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 09:21:18 jtza8 [n=jtza8@wbs-196-2-111-65.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:21:28 bfein__ [n=bfein@pool-74-104-157-229.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:34 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Success] 09:23:45 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:16 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:25:24 bpr: Yes, and then it destroys that list when new elements are added, so that you can't do (mkqueue '(a b c)) for instance. 09:27:28 So it's a very concrete implementation of a queue, with semantics based on the implementation. 09:27:50 that works actually 09:28:10 Really? Not if what you said above is true. 09:28:44 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:28:56 -!- kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:29:24 http://paste.lisp.org/display/91933 09:31:25 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:14 bpr: It looks to me like you are modifying the list that was passed as the initial contents. 09:32:32 yes. that's intended 09:33:19 bpr: And so since you are not allowed to modify constant data such as '(a b c), you code doesn't work, because the spec says that you are invoking undefined behavior. But perhaps you have a different definition of "works". 09:33:20 the calling code is responsible for making a copy of the list structure if needed (i guess that's non-lispy) 09:33:41 oh 09:33:49 bpr: So (mkqueue '(a b c)) in fact doesn't work? 09:34:10 ok 09:34:16 bpr: it is not only non-lispy, it is non-programmy. 09:34:44 bpr: But you are of course free to write whatever code you like. It was just a question. 09:35:06 man i didn't do anything to prompt you to get snarky... 09:35:21 but, thanks for pointing out what the spec says 09:35:22 bpr: I am not snarky. It is my usual dry me. 09:35:48 bpr: I read too many bad student programs per year I guess. 09:36:35 bpr: OK, so let me say that differently. With that code you would fail both my algorithms course and my programming-project course. How is that? 09:36:39 dto1 [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:48 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:37:30 bpr: But that could very well be because I become more and more demanding over the years. 09:37:50 splittist [i=5141cec4@gateway/web/freenode/x-tcfkvqtkwpndnist] has joined #lisp 09:37:55 morning 09:37:56 hello splittist 09:38:16 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:38:17 -!- bfein_ [n=bfein@pool-74-104-157-229.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:38:40 bpr: the simple rule of thumb is: the function in question should never modify the data it has been passed (except when that is its purpose) 09:38:44 -!- dto1 is now known as dto 09:38:45 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 09:38:46 I can understand the fact that what i'm doing is bad if i'm intending to distribute this. From a software engineering stanpoint, I absolutely would agree with you 09:39:15 bpr: There is more to it than that, because you also asked people here for help. 09:39:27 bpr: so i'd argue that your mkqueue function should be calling copy-list, not the callers. 09:39:47 That would be a minimum, yes. 09:40:06 Then I would make the argument a keyword arguments such as :initial-contents. 09:40:13 the fact that it modifies the list is important for the code that I'm calling it from 09:42:17 bpr: i'd also argure that such behaviour will get you into more problems than it solves 09:42:39 jdz: i would agree 09:43:10 bpr: so why do you intentionally write such code 09:43:10 ? 09:43:23 it enables "spooky action at a distance" in the general case 09:44:14 this isn't really a general purpose lib, and it's not being used by code that's intended for distribution or anything and all approaching "production" use 09:44:26 bpr: that does not matter 09:44:42 bpr: the problem is that you're training your brain to write bad code 09:44:44 "bad" 09:45:22 *now* is the best time ever to start writing good code. 09:46:24 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:44 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:49:42 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-dfbfhpyfissyqhqp] has joined #lisp 09:51:24 tcr [n=tcr@138.246.7.146] has joined #lisp 09:53:11 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:53:12 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:16 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 09:54:45 brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:56:46 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@90.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:58:46 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 10:02:23 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 10:03:03 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit 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has quit [] 12:07:03 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6FE17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:26 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:15:19 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 12:17:52 <_deepfire> Xach, you no longer provide tilde? 12:18:34 -!- reprore [n=reprore@EM114-48-9-32.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:20:45 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@219-89-92-48.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:20:50 gz [n=gz@209.6.40.245] has joined #lisp 12:20:57 -!- gz [n=gz@209.6.40.245] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:21:11 gz [n=gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:15 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:21:49 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 12:21:50 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:27:01 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-128-11.netcologne.de] has 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110 (Connection timed out)] 12:41:11 jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-30-225-112.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:42:04 -!- aintme [n=user@85.37.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["/* */"] 12:43:09 -!- Dodek_ [i=dodek@dodecki.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 12:43:36 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 12:49:05 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-113-185.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:50:34 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:52:20 Dodek_ [i=dodek@dodecki.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:50 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e195-148.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:54:18 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:56:56 so, check-type and declare type on sbcl annotates the type information a bit different way? i get more notes when i compile with check-type 12:57:12 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:58:30 actually with all the combination of the declare type and check-type commented out/not i get different number of notes 12:59:29 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e195-148.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:01:58 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has joined #lisp 13:02:49 -!- Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:03:15 hello 13:03:38 addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:59 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:08:23 hello fe[nl]ix 13:08:34 hi plage 13:09:19 davazp [n=user@45.Red-83-46-2.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:20 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:11:04 luis` [n=user@mail2.siscog.pt] has joined #lisp 13:11:43 -!- luis` [n=user@mail2.siscog.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:12:01 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 13:14:03 ruediger [n=quassel@213.33.31.251] has joined #lisp 13:14:20 jewel__ [n=jewel@vc-41-26-67-250.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:14:55 -!- kwinz3 [n=kwinz@e195-148.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:15:56 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:17:00 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@vc-41-30-225-112.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:17:21 <_deepfire> lichtblau, xuriella has an unmatched close parenthesis in instructions.lisp 13:17:30 -!- addled [n=adl@21.Red-81-38-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:18:26 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 13:19:05 _deepfire: i didn't stop intentionally. what makes you say that? 13:21:38 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:22:12 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:23:34 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:27 also, http://github.com/xach/tilde 13:24:45 <_deepfire> Xach, sorry, busted definition 13:25:33 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:25:36 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:49 <_deepfire> Also, I apparently cannot read output of the tools I wrote :-) 13:28:04 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757615.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:50 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:32:11 YuleAthas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 13:38:28 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 13:39:24 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 13:39:32 spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 13:40:42 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-128-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:52 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 13:45:39 <_deepfire> Xach, http://feelingofgreen.ru/desire-waterfall?mode=cond&nr=0&result-id=1043 points to a certain ASDF:CIRCULAR-DEPENDENCY during load of ZS3 13:46:02 -!- jewel__ [n=jewel@vc-41-26-67-250.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:40 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:47:04 Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:06 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CEA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:31 is there a crossword puzzle generator (from a list of words and hints) in lisp? 13:49:01 _deepfire: can you suggest a way for me to reproduce that problem? 13:49:15 ecraven: clutu seems to have one. i don't think the source is public, though. 13:49:36 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 13:49:43 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:07 <_deepfire> Xach, unfortunately, no.. my current approach to build testing is to load everything into a single core. 13:51:21 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:52:04 <_deepfire> Xach, oh, perhaps that's related to ASDF version 13:52:41 kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 13:52:43 <_deepfire> Xach, I build using the lastest ASDF 13:52:51 <_deepfire> *latest 13:53:03 good afternoon 13:55:07 <_deepfire> Xach, actually, for reproduction, you can use the desire's bootstrapper script, climb.sh 13:55:24 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:55:54 <_deepfire> Xach, which is a matter of downloading that script, having git installed and running a single command using that script 13:56:02 this one, i think :) http://www.gtoal.com/scrabble/gatekeeper/grid_generator.lisp 13:57:41 -!- reprore__ [n=reprore@EM114-48-192-49.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:58:36 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:59:44 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 13:59:55 Axius [n=ade@92.84.21.127] has joined #lisp 14:04:14 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:04:56 <_deepfire> Oh, sorry, climb.sh won't work, because CXML does "(find-system :closure-common nil)" in cxml.asd 14:05:19 <_deepfire> And this makes my life hard, hard, hard. 14:06:11 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:06:17 <_deepfire> Why supposedly reasonable people insist on abusing the crap out of ASDF? 14:06:28 -!- hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 14:06:47 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.84.21.127] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:06:56 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:07:09 I'm taking patches 14:08:54 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 14:09:35 <_deepfire> lichtblau, it's bad enough already, neither LOADing nor READing can be a basis for a reliable way to figure out what systems reside in a particular .asd file 14:11:04 I'm culprit of that, too :-) 14:11:09 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:12 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:11:14 <_deepfire> lichtblau, I want you to empathise, to appreciate the problem. 14:11:19 I should probably take a look at :in-order-to 14:11:22 if only we described systems in XML instead of lisp code! 14:11:23 hefner, memo from beach: Your logic-cube McCLIM demo doesn't seem to work. Do you have any idea what needs to be done to fix it? 14:11:30 *hefner* weeps 14:12:02 <_deepfire> hefner, if only we used a declarative, rather than an imperative way to define systems.. 14:12:05 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 14:12:28 worse is better 14:12:32 logic-cube... is that the one with 3D cube color puzzle? 14:12:42 p_l: that's the one 14:12:49 works for me 14:12:53 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:12:56 (well, not too nicely, but works) 14:12:58 To use the declarative part of ASDF, you'd have to read documentation :-) 14:13:09 -!- kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:13:24 <_deepfire> tcr, tell that to Fare, so he avoids the same mistake 14:15:09 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@90.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:15:19 _deepfire: You should write a blog posting about bad patterns and how to do them right 14:15:27 weird, sawfish isn't giving some mcclim apps any buttons on their titlebars. 14:15:40 <_deepfire> tcr, I don't have a blog.. 14:15:57 _deepfire: Write something up and offer it to someone with low sparkometer 14:16:52 Or even better add it to the ASDF manual 14:17:05 rdd` [n=user@83.250.145.223] has joined #lisp 14:17:08 I'll link to the relevant chapter in a blog posting then :-) 14:18:43 <_deepfire> tcr, thank you for being sensitive, by the way 14:18:49 *p_l* is simply itching to write a hotpatching system that would modify ASDFs in implementation to include a working recursive search, versioned deps, binary locations and optional deps :/ 14:19:42 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.192.78] has joined #lisp 14:20:34 kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 14:21:07 marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has joined #lisp 14:23:38 _deepfire: You could also think of an heuristic that catches mistakes; for example, if someone performs a load-op from within a perform method 14:24:19 <_deepfire> tcr, so, I should READ the .asd, validate it and then LOAD, optionally? 14:24:26 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:24:38 LiamH [n=none@132.250.138.103] has joined #lisp 14:24:42 I was thinking of adding that lint-facility to asdf itself 14:25:07 so if *asdf-lint* is t, it'd style-warn in such cases 14:25:08 <_deepfire> I think you cannot sensibly fight imperative combinatorics. 14:25:24 Soulman [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:30 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 14:26:45 <_deepfire> I like your propagande-based suggestion better :-) 14:28:08 <_deepfire> It's fundamentally unfixable, the best we can get is to make the status quo acceptable. 14:28:49 <_deepfire> Where "acceptable" means "not actively aggressive wrt. higher-order tools". 14:29:49 I think a Best Practises section for the asdf manual would be a great contribution 14:30:13 _deepfire: With some luck, you can make nick levine cover it in his book 14:30:58 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:32:06 luis` [n=user@mail2.siscog.pt] has joined #lisp 14:32:18 Yuuhi` [i=benni@p5483B0CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:36 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 14:33:51 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit [Client Quit] 14:34:45 where does slime store the repl history? 14:35:06 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 14:35:07 hmm, .slime-history.eld might be it 14:36:48 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:40:03 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:40:47 tcr: I guess I'm hunting that bug like Captain Ahab hunted Mobe Dick... 14:40:56 Found something interesting though. 14:41:04 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 14:42:01 -!- davazp [n=user@45.Red-83-46-2.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:42:02 SIGIO mode works when I compile SBCL with threads, but not without it... 14:42:59 I guess there might be a dependency on a *features* flag which isn't needed. 14:43:07 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:43:36 which bug? 14:43:41 demmeln [n=Adium@131.159.19.90] has joined #lisp 14:43:45 TDT [n=user@206.196.111.202] has joined #lisp 14:44:00 Well, not really a bug... more of an issue I was having. 14:44:21 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CEA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:44:28 The whole issue about SIGIO mode in SWANK didn't work quite right. 14:44:43 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@131.159.19.90] has quit [Client Quit] 14:45:07 demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 14:45:07 It blocked until a task was done before it would dare evaluate a new one. 14:45:18 I don't think many people use :sigio with sbcl, I think it's more often used with cmucl 14:45:37 Yes, but on OS X? 14:46:14 Threads have... issues on OS X. 14:47:21 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has joined #lisp 14:48:17 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A8835.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:49:12 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Boot me gently"] 14:50:15 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 14:52:21 well :sigio involves interesting chunks of code in swank :-) 14:52:34 You must have real fun. 14:52:43 threads mostly have issues on OS X because of signal handling 14:52:59 it's not clear that stressing the signal handling (by using :sigio) is going to be a net win 14:59:28 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@130.83.156.186] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 15:01:40 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-113-185.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:02:12 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-113-185.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:02:52 minion, memo for beach: logic-cube works for me with CVS mcclim; what seems to be the problem? 15:02:52 Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks. 15:05:04 Geralt [n=Geralt@vpn-cl-160-140.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 15:07:01 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:09:31 heh, I gotta learn to use minion more 15:09:40 milanj [n=milan@cable-188-2-172-165.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:12:02 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-26-66.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:12:18 There's something anachronistically cyberpunk in the idea of a bot you communicate with in natural language to look up information and leave messages to other people. 15:13:13 slotsirar [n=user@91.190.137.236] has joined #lisp 15:13:37 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:13:49 "natural" 15:15:31 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:17:28 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-giyflovxblpmicvd] has joined #lisp 15:17:36 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:02 -!- bpr [n=user@cpe-72-231-172-136.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:19:02 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-73-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:19:23 -!- tcr [n=tcr@138.246.7.146] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:21:00 rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:21 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 15:22:12 HG` [n=HG@89.166.196.202] has joined #lisp 15:22:13 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@82.31.207.41] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 15:26:51 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:34:14 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:34:37 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:35:44 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 15:38:05 <_deepfire> hefner, this probably applies to IRC in general 15:38:31 <_deepfire> Shall we start a Lisp neighbourhood in Second Life? 15:39:41 gz [n=gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:07 <_deepfire> Also, on a tangential matter, do people already type faster, in general, than write by hand? 15:40:30 <_deepfire> Or handwriting recognition is still a relevant matter? 15:40:41 _deepfire: I'm pretty sure that people, in general, do not type faster. 15:41:10 <_deepfire> schme, I should have said "net populace".. 15:41:14 handwriting recognition is lovely. I take most of my note by hand. 15:41:31 I end up with a whole pile every day. so much work feeding into the computer. 15:41:36 <_deepfire> schme, I'll quickly drown without orgmode 15:41:40 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-128-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:41:44 eheh 15:41:51 too bad orgmode isn't easy to carry around then. 15:42:10 and it's complete shit for creative notetaking with all the lines you draw to connect stuff up and lil' pictures one draws :) 15:42:21 <_deepfire> true 15:42:23 -!- legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-34-81.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:42:28 -!- moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-177-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:42:54 I have ideas of scanning it in and somehow getting it all translated to lisp objects that I can present using mcclim. 15:43:01 for easy searching through 'em all and what not. 15:43:11 <_deepfire> bur Dijkstra said something against using pictures as a mental aid 15:43:14 just the.. translating scanned -> lisp objects :) 15:43:31 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-128-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:37 pictures are the best. 15:43:49 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 15:45:04 <_deepfire> http://www.smaldone.com.ar/documentos/ewd/EWD696_pretty.html 15:46:44 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:51 G'morning all. 15:47:36 _deepfire: that's a very long read. 15:48:23 _deepfire: I don't see how anything than a picture is better when you're taking a note of I dunno.. how to do a hanging leg raise or something. 15:48:55 <_deepfire> hey nyef 15:49:02 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@132-14-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:50:36 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:51:10 hu nyef 15:51:38 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:48 isn't the output of `clbuild slime-configuration' a bit wonky? 15:52:53 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Success] 15:53:21 at least, the whole (setf load-path (cons "foo" load-path)) thing 15:53:22 _deepfire: I type much faster than I can write. 15:53:30 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-96-224-31-174.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:18 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 15:55:38 tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:38 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:25 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-26-66.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:00:39 -!- ztzg__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-006-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:02:19 -!- udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-giyflovxblpmicvd] has left #lisp 16:02:32 Adlai: if that is an elisp style comment, you need to elaborate, because I have no idea what proper elisp style looks like 16:02:41 (it's setq btw, not setf) 16:02:46 right 16:03:01 what's the stylish way to do it? add-to-list? 16:03:06 that's what I've got 16:03:10 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-26-126-136.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:04:05 You can use clbuild, but that may still come with some weird .emacs bit 16:04:07 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:04:18 maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:04:18 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-128-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:04:21 tcr: which weird part where you referring to? 16:04:29 ah, no tcr. 16:04:33 Fare [n=Fare@63.107.91.99] has joined #lisp 16:05:07 I don't use that .emacs snippet, but I'm emailing a friend some instructions on how to set up CL, and I was surprised by clbuild's output 16:05:10 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:17 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:32 sepult [n=user@xdsl-78-35-192-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:06:54 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-49-25.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:07:11 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 16:10:37 -!- HG` [n=HG@89.166.196.202] has quit [Client Quit] 16:11:33 moah [n=gnu@84.63.209.48] has joined #lisp 16:11:52 lhz [n=shrekz@213.114.170.185] has joined #lisp 16:18:40 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:19:48 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:19:48 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:21:28 -!- robewald_ [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:21:29 -!- frontier1 [n=frontier@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:21:31 robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:33 frontiers [n=frontier@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:15 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:01 Tordek [n=tordek@host186.190-137-254.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:32:16 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:33:39 any CFFI author around? 16:34:13 -!- avalanche^ [i=Honningm@60.81-166-31.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:34:19 don't the asdf:perform methods for grovel-file load the lisp source file instead of the compiled file? 16:34:36 and don't they create that file twice? 16:34:53 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-26-126-136.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:36:10 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-132-102.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:51 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-101-205.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:37:06 Fare: no & no 16:40:00 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:41:09 cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:42:04 I don't understand what's going on, then 16:42:12 And why the (print ...) ? 16:42:13 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:44:36 Fare: a debugging print I forgot to remove 16:44:57 ok. 16:45:12 don't both the load-op and compile-op method generate the file, though? 16:45:51 ztzg [n=dash@dslb-084-057-006-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:53 they both call process-grovel-file 16:46:56 that's load-source-op not load-op 16:47:48 doh 16:48:10 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.250.254] has joined #lisp 16:48:29 that'll teach me to read 16:49:48 thanks! 16:51:43 c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:48 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-98-20.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:56:22 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 16:58:22 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:59:57 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:00:00 nyquist [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:00:52 ejs [n=eugen@128-26-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:10 emacs-dwim [n=user@cpe-24-59-202-162.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:09 -!- obneq [n=lukas@80.219.169.85] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:30 -!- ejs [n=eugen@128-26-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:07:21 ejs [n=eugen@128-26-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:33 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757615.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:58 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757615.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:10 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 17:08:13 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:08:16 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 17:09:13 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 17:12:08 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 17:14:18 -!- nyquist [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:15:57 redblue [i=star@ppp143.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:17:45 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 17:18:56 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:19:00 -!- ejs [n=eugen@128-26-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:20:03 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:38 ejs [n=eugen@128-26-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@128-26-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:23:08 costals [n=weechat@ns.blissgarden.org] has joined #lisp 17:23:23 Good evening! 17:23:23 beach, memo from hefner: logic-cube works for me with CVS mcclim; what seems to be the problem? 17:29:31 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@85-220-126-94.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:30:31 Hello beach. 17:31:20 -!- luis` [n=user@mail2.siscog.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:32:03 InvisibleTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 17:34:37 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:34:42 -!- kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:47 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-31-98-20.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:36:20 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Success] 17:37:14 -!- costals [n=weechat@ns.blissgarden.org] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6.3"] 17:39:49 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757615.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:40:13 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757615.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:56 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.162.8] has joined #lisp 17:43:34 nha [n=prefect@31-174.4-85.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:44:33 -!- nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:45:31 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.250.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:45:32 ejs [n=eugen@85-238-113-220.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:48:34 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:52 phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:00 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:26 harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-37-84.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:55:21 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:43 Harag pasted "validate-superclass" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91952 17:56:06 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-156.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:58:37 I m a trying to create a metaclass and to use it but I think I am missing something..the above paste has the code and error... 17:59:02 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@80.14.131.214] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:01:32 levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-4-230.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:02:05 mop validate-superclass 18:02:16 blargh, specbot doesn't do mop 18:02:25 http://l1sp.org/mop/validate-superclass 18:03:13 *Xach* is glad *someone* uses l1sp.org 18:04:20 Xach, a few hours ago I emailed somebody instructions for setting up slime and a CL compiler, and mentioned l1sp.org as a good way to find PCL chapters by topic :) 18:04:39 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:05:12 yay! 18:05:13 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:05:33 balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 18:05:34 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 18:05:46 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@wbs-196-2-111-65.wbs.co.za] has quit ["leaving"] 18:07:03 -!- InvisibleTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 18:08:29 adlai: sorry to be ignorant but I have read the link that you supplied and looked at how weblocks and postmodern use the mop to define metaclasses but I still don't see what I am doing wrong..unless I explicitly have to call or override initialize or something 18:08:53 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:09:01 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 18:10:04 harag, I'm a bit confused about it myself. 18:10:05 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6FE17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 18:10:28 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:10:53 Adlai: lol..confused that my code does not work or confused about validate-superclass? 18:12:44 -!- NNshag [n=shag@82.65.87.145] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:12:54 benny [n=benny@i577A3251.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:38 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:15:04 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:15:30 harag, are you using the SB-MOP package? 18:15:35 yes 18:15:37 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 18:16:05 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:16:27 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:16:56 amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:03 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-139-183.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:20 harag, this works for me in SBCL 1.0.32.30, at the REPL, loading the code, or compiling and then loading. Are you sure you're defining the method on sb-mop 18:18:27 sb-mop:validate-superclass ? 18:18:40 avalanche^ [i=Honningm@60.81-166-31.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:06 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:13 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:17 (defmethod sb-mop:validate-superclass ((class widget-class) (superclass standard-class)) 18:19:19 t) 18:19:20 shrughes [n=shrughes@c-65-96-172-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:22 that works 18:19:25 darn 18:19:31 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:19:37 well, that means you're not using the SB-MOP package correctly. 18:19:43 what other validate super-class was it overriding then? 18:20:03 (defpackage #:ht-wfx-asd 18:20:05 (:use :cl :asdf :sb-mop)) 18:20:19 it could have been creating a new generic function 18:20:54 ah, you should use sb-mop in the HT-WFX package, not HT-WFX-ASD 18:21:03 (if I'm correctly guessing what that package is for) 18:21:04 aaah 18:21:08 eish 18:21:20 yes thanx...stupid mistake 18:21:37 no problem. Packages are unintuitive sometimes 18:23:11 porcelina [n=quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:48 sbcl spits out a big ugly warning about that defmethod 18:24:01 ...what do you mean, you tune it out? 18:24:59 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 18:25:11 Xach, I imagine that the big ugly warning of creating a new generic function HT-WFX::VALIDATE-SUPERCLASS was shadowed by the larger, uglier warning of the invalid superclass. 18:28:20 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:29:01 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-43-82-249-183-197.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:02 I definately only got the error about the invalid superclass 18:30:46 is there an easy way to access the clipboard in sbcl? 18:30:59 thanx for the help 18:31:29 porcelina, not in SBCL itself, but you can call the xclip program. 18:32:22 ...or use CLX 18:32:53 not quite as easy as sb-ext:run-program, probably. 18:33:04 *Xach* adds the Boulder Lisp meeting to the calendar 18:33:21 boulder colorado? 18:33:38 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:33:40 the very same 18:33:48 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:33:54 when's it at? 18:34:04 *porcelina* is going to school in denver. 18:34:06 http://planet.lisp.org/meetings/ 18:34:24 http://www.meetup.com/The-Boulder-Lisp-Users-Group/calendar/12065369/ 18:34:43 :/ i'll be out of town. 18:34:56 headed to boston? there's a meeting there too. 18:35:04 or albuquerque? 18:35:29 nah, portland. 18:35:43 why, *I* live in portland! time for a portland lisp meeting! 18:35:48 haha 18:35:53 i'm only gonna be there for like 2 days 18:35:58 *Xach* bets it's the incorrect portland, though 18:36:03 oregon? 18:36:07 I'm in the other Portland! 18:36:23 *Xach* is in the correct, Maineish portland 18:36:28 lol 18:36:33 Guthur [n=Michael@host86-136-52-94.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:50 stop porting portland 18:37:29 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:29 Posterdati__ [n=angel@87.19.49.251] has joined #lisp 18:40:43 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 18:40:44 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:55 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:51 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 18:45:50 adeht [n=death@95.35.79.30] has joined #lisp 18:46:38 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.250.254] has joined #lisp 18:46:38 Xach: happy meeting yourself in Portland? 18:46:52 I'm sure there are plenty of Lispers in Portlang, Oregon :) 18:46:56 kejsaren3 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:13 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:28 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit ["Quitting"] 18:49:52 *Xach* will start styling himself the Last, Best Lisper of Maine 18:49:52 -!- adeht [n=death@95.35.79.30] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:50:09 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:50:19 -!- Posterdati_ [n=angel@host101-35-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:50:22 *nyef* tries to figure out how to make a "Last DJ" joke out of that, but fails. 18:50:38 tmh [n=user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 18:50:43 Greetings lispers. 18:50:50 Posterdati [n=angel@87.19.16.134] has joined #lisp 18:50:53 (herep drewc) 18:51:15 kejsaren4 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:26 tmh: nil 18:51:32 minion, seen drewc? 18:51:33 drewc was last seen 5y6m14d32h43m10s ago, saying "minion: when are you going to support seen?" 18:51:40 :D 18:51:43 heh 18:52:47 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:52:48 *Xach* has minion code for just that task 18:53:09 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 18:53:10 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 18:53:58 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:55:42 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:55:42 -!- kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:55:49 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:57:12 minion, seen tmh? 18:57:13 tmh was last seen 5y6m14d32h43m10s ago, saying "minion: when are you going to support seen?" 18:57:23 I'm a little slow. 18:59:00 slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:27 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:01:57 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:03:30 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:33 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:00 -!- Posterdati__ [n=angel@87.19.49.251] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:05:55 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:06:18 -!- ejs [n=eugen@85-238-113-220.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:08:27 uhm, how do i get the stdout from run-program... 19:08:40 there's like 80 different kinds of streams. 19:08:46 Which implementation? 19:08:58 sbcl 19:09:03 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-gsbxegintflqaxmb] has joined #lisp 19:10:26 I think it's sb-ext:process-output 19:10:46 mstevens [n=mstevens@81.2.103.23] has joined #lisp 19:11:31 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Running-external-programs.html#index-sb_002dext_003arun_002dprogram-209 has the details. 19:11:43 :output :stream would set up sb-ext:process-output for you. 19:12:03 -!- harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-37-84.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:12:39 returns nil... 19:14:31 porcelina, you can keep it, I don't want it. 19:14:45 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.128.190] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:14:53 lol 19:15:04 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:15:09 -!- spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:16:27 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-24-115.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:16:46 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:18:30 -!- kejsaren3 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:30 -!- kejsaren4 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:19:00 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 19:19:25 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@81.2.103.23] has quit [] 19:21:46 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:54 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:26:03 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.250.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:26:45 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:09 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:02 (sb-ext:process-output (sb-ext:run-program "xclip" '("-o") :output :stream)) 19:37:05 okay, how do i read from the stream this returns? 19:37:15 it says it's this: # 19:37:16 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:37:29 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:37:35 ;/// i'm rly bad at streams. ;_; 19:38:48 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:39:28 ,clhs get-output-stream-string 19:39:39 minion: clhs get-output-stream-string 19:39:40 you speak nonsense 19:39:46 meh, I suck at minion 19:39:54 I'd check that method 19:39:55 clhs get-output-stream-string 19:39:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_get_ou.htm 19:40:15 Thanks Adlai, I need to remember. 19:42:12 debugger invoked on a TYPE-ERROR in thread #: The value # is not of type SB-IMPL::STRING-OUTPUT-STREAM. 19:42:55 porcelina: you got bad advice. 19:43:18 porcelina: you can use normal read functions. i believe you can use read-char, read-line, etc. 19:43:26 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:29 get-output-stream-string is for string streams. 19:43:29 oh 19:43:42 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] 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nuba frodef setheus ecraven herbieB 20:38:53 -!- names: mikezor_ KatrinaTheLamia emma dek52 l_a_m rahul mornfall reid08 lisppaste mgr authentic rbancroft boyscared rey_ krappie kmc Wombatzus srcerer whoppix pkhuong BrianRice araujo Borbus Khisanth djinni` Pepe_ dcrawford dalkvist_ egn froydnj tessier ve Axioplase_ nareshov rlonstein blast_hardcheese Bucciarati anekos bdowning sjbach cataska joast Orest^bnc bobrown`` fatalnix kooll pragma_ specbot minion lemoinem ``Erik ski chii Ginei_Morioka rapacity 20:38:53 -!- names: peddie _3b alexbobp hohum slather housel jsnell z0d pok dostoyevsky isomer jkantz guaq djm Raptelan reb p_l Legooolas cupe Xantoz rsynnott cods rullie 20:39:32 nyef: I meant LOAD'ing pprint.lisp 20:39:38 Ah. 20:39:39 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757615.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:40:00 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757615.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:23 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has left 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has joined #lisp 20:57:59 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 20:57:59 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 20:57:59 Beeggor [n=Draggor@216.80.120.145] has joined #lisp 20:57:59 Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:59 tvaalen [n=tvaal@209.9.227.203] has joined #lisp 20:58:05 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:59:50 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 20:59:57 -!- JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 21:01:20 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@122.172.162.8] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:02:45 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 21:02:50 Hm. What's the purpose of the CTRAN between every node in a block? Why aren't the nodes just linked directly to eachother? 21:05:10 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:05:58 foom: simplifies splicing, I think. 21:06:16 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:06:31 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-252-1-49-25.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:06:33 it doesn't appear to actually have any interesting data on it, unless I miss something 21:06:40 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 21:07:31 foom: right, but you only have to change one pointer. 21:07:31 -!- tmh [n=user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 21:08:11 ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-75-207.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:08:13 but every ctran within a block is only pointed to by a single node? 21:08:23 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:08:53 foom: a single live node. 21:09:21 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@213-33-31-251.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:10:50 mmm. But if the node isn't live, does it matter what it points to? 21:11:03 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:11:16 Sorry, I feel like I'm being stupid here. :) 21:11:48 foom: There's some badness with half-dead nodes, sometimes. But really, I think the CTRAN thing is mostly to simplify splicing. 21:12:10 -!- kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:12:44 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-94038.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:12:56 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-93958.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 21:13:05 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:13:52 I don't understand how it simplifies splicing, either, though. 21:14:05 If you want to splice some code between two nodes, you have to update the next and prev pointers on either side of both ends, no? 21:14:14 Everything can hold on to the CTRANs directly, as a handle to nodes. 21:15:06 That's how they're used during ir1 translation, for instance. 21:15:15 Which means that you only have to update half the links? 21:15:44 One of these days I should sit down and actually try to figure out that stage of the compiler. 21:18:42 -!- levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-4-230.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 21:18:52 Fairly certain the point is mostly to have mutable references. e.g., when splicing something in at either end of the block, there's no special case: you only ever have to update pointers in a ctran. 21:18:54 balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 21:20:10 If that's all it is, seems a rather expensive implementation of it 21:20:30 pkhuong: While we're here, did you turn up anything in your inspection of the GC with respect to the fixnum size thing? 21:20:30 Could just have a special "head" and "tail" node which never get replaced/spliced-before 21:20:49 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:21:04 foom: and you also get to hold onto the references for other uses (e.g. debugging) 21:21:09 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:35 Taggnostr [n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 21:21:38 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:39 nyef: nope. My hacking time will be very close to null for the foreseeable future. 21:22:01 Mmm... And I'm probably going to lose most of mine for about the next month. 21:22:22 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:22:30 And running that branch became... unpleasant with that last set of changes. 21:24:24 cyberhuman1 [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:26:39 -!- phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:27:58 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-78-35-192-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:28:32 rdd``` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:29:17 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:29:17 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.21.83] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:29:17 -!- milanj- [n=milan@91.148.66.215] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:29:17 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-78-35-192-155.netcologne.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:29:17 -!- Tordek_ [n=tordek@host186.190-137-254.telecom.net.ar] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 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21:51:49 lupine_85 [n=quassel@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has joined #lisp 21:51:49 esden [n=esdentem@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:49 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 21:51:49 PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 21:51:49 vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:13 doom2quake_ [n=doom2qua@122.163.198.38] has joined #lisp 21:52:44 m4dnificent [n=madnific@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:54:03 prxq [n=mommer@g226132164.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:54:15 hi 21:54:20 TR2N [i=email@89.180.191.32] has joined #lisp 21:54:26 -!- aintme [n=user@85.37.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:54:51 confounds_ [n=confound@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:27 -!- DrForr_ [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Broken pipe] 21:55:37 -!- rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Broken pipe] 21:55:38 DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:47 rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:56:33 Is the measure of a writers' ability to not mix past, present, and future called "tensile strength"? 21:57:56 i'd say there is a certain semantic tension there 21:58:18 francogrex [n=user@91.180.87.239] has joined #lisp 22:00:00 offtopic: hi anyone knows a place where we can upload and share files (pdf; jpg) for 24 hours (something like lisppaste but for files)? 22:00:43 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:01:20 http://tinyurl.com/yc63hvs 22:02:39 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:50 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-156.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 22:05:44 Adlai annotated #91962 "bisect script" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91962#1 22:06:43 Adlai annotated #91962 "bisect log" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91962#2 22:07:18 cyberhuman1 [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:07:26 Adlai annotated #91962 "bisect result" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91962#3 22:07:34 -!- madnificent [n=madnific@83.101.62.132] has quit [Success] 22:08:03 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:09:13 minion, memo for tcr: I scripted the bisection, so I didn't supervise it all the way. It seems to have finished successfully. Script, log, and result are annotated to http://paste.lisp.org/display/91962 22:09:14 Remembered. I'll tell tcr when he/she/it next speaks. 22:10:41 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 22:11:45 -!- ruediger_ is now known as ruediger 22:12:37 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:13:57 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:13:58 kpreid_ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:45 -!- balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:15:46 trittweiler, I left a memo for "tcr" with the bisection results. 22:17:41 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:42 -!- confounds [n=confound@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Success] 22:22:33 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-24-115.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Success] 22:22:47 -!- kejsaren3 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:24:09 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:25:25 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 22:25:26 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 22:30:48 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:44 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-120-151.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:57 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:48:38 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:54 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:24 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 22:57:42 Posterdati_ [n=angel@host161-231-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 Hun [n=hun@80.153.55.38] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 pr [n=pr@p579CAD34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 borism [n=boris@213-35-235-152-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 qebab [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-120-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 Tordek [n=tordek@host186.190-137-254.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 avalanche^ [i=Honningm@60.81-166-31.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-139-183.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 moah [n=gnu@84.63.209.48] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 ignas [n=ignas@79.132.160.221] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 nipra [n=nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 b4|hraban [n=b4@83.163.41.120] has joined #lisp 23:06:03 macdice [n=user@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:07:06 -!- kpreid_ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:07:11 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:32 hi, anyone here used a symbolics machine? 23:07:37 -!- TDT` [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:10:37 -!- Posterdati [n=angel@87.19.16.134] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:11:29 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:14:13 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 23:14:13 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:16:19 macdice: I haven't, though some regulars have one. 23:16:30 good night 23:16:35 serichsen: Sleep well. 23:16:41 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06cdc7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["free to be me"] 23:17:12 macdice: There are emulators available for some TI hardware, and for the MIT CADR if you're interested in going that route. 23:17:54 i have got myself an old symbolics keyboard and i'm trying to figure out what some of the keys were used for 23:18:16 macdice: frankly, emacs. 23:18:55 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:18:57 right, exactly, so what i want to do is find out what these things did in zmacs, and make it happen in gnu emacs 23:19:09 macdice: awesome 23:19:34 -!- Posterdati_ [n=angel@host161-231-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:19:37 any reason why SBCL's install.sh doesn't use the install(1) and install-info(1) programs? 23:19:52 (it currently just uses cp) 23:20:13 Adlai: Anything from hysterical raisins to unfamiliarity from the current maintainers to win32 compatability. 23:20:29 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757615.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:22:38 hmm. I guess the correct "fix" for me would be to find a way of getting info to look under ~/share/info 23:23:45 although it would be more convenient if at least the info files were installed using install-info... would this be an unwelcome patch? 23:24:20 why does it matter how the files get into the install directory? 23:24:45 foom, install-info registers the files with the info program. 23:25:16 -!- Yuuhi` [i=benni@p5483B0CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:25:47 it does seem as though info should make it easier to customize the search path, though 23:26:33 well, wait. if you're installing sbcl with a --prefix ~, I'd think it very poor for it to install info files somewhere else. 23:27:08 -!- nha [n=prefect@31-174.4-85.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit ["They say when you play that Microsoft CD backward you can hear satanic messages... but that's nothing. If you play it forward] 23:27:30 foom, I'm installing sbcl with: INSTALL_ROOT=/home/adlai sh install.sh 23:28:03 and you want info files to go somewhere else than /home/adlai/share/info? 23:28:21 no, I want info to recognize them there 23:28:57 Well, I have no idea how this stuff works....but I'd note that sbcl's install.sh *does* call install-info. :) 23:29:35 hmmmmm, grep reveals that it does. I wonder why info isn't recognizing the files. 23:29:56 *Adlai* stops worrying about this Unix crap because it turns his stomach. 23:31:15 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.180.87.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:31:42 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:31:51 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:41 can anyone give a suggest how i can destruct an arbitrary length macro parameter list and use it within a defstruct, from my struct question earlier 23:33:00 my marco-fu is too weak 23:33:05 Guthur: Loop over the elements and use DESTRUCTURING-BIND on them. 23:33:15 clhs destructuring-bind 23:33:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_destru.htm 23:33:53 Basically (loop for slot in slots do (destructuring-bind (name &key type initial-value) slot (declare ...) ...)). 23:34:17 what about (loop for (name &key type initial-value) in slots do ...) ? 23:34:27 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:35:10 ok cheers guys i'll give them whirl 23:35:19 looping was not being very successful for me 23:35:44 For some reason I remember loop destructuring to be less flexible than destructuring-bid. 23:35:53 It may not be, though. 23:36:00 it definitely works differently 23:36:10 That might be it. 23:36:20 destructuring-bind works like a macro parameter list, after all. 23:36:26 for example, you can (loop for (key value) on plist by #'cddr frob key and frob value) 23:36:47 nyef: it is; loop destructuring is a straight correspondence between cons, with NIL a special don't-care value. 23:38:47 I often wish loop had d-b's features, and d-b had loop's destructuring features 23:39:11 NIL as a don't-care in destructuring-bind would be convenient 23:39:29 redblue [n=star@ppp034.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:39:30 although you'd lose some of the error-checking power 23:40:15 -!- housel [n=nnnnuser@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:40:46 At least with destructuring-bind you can declare ignore the bits you don't want. 23:42:30 -!- confounds_ [n=confound@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:42:49 nyef what was the declare for in your example 23:42:57 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-120-151.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 23:43:21 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:43:31 is that just in case i wish to do something with it, or is it some way of declaring its a slot 23:45:01 -!- prxq [n=mommer@g226132164.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:47:38 Guthur, nyef was just giving an example, that when you use destructuring-bind, you can make declarations about the bound variables. 23:47:42 (I think) 23:48:20 ok cheers, just making sure i'm not missing something, 23:48:38 Yeah, basically indicating where declarations go. 23:49:00 pjb [n=t@33.Red-88-30-127.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:09 Guthur, check http://l1sp.org/search?q=d-bind for info about destructuring-bind. It's described at the end of the PCL chapter linked there. 23:51:13 its not that part thats stumping, its the fact that i can't get anything out of the loop, it loops but the items stay in the loop they are not placed in the struct definition 23:51:43 i'm probably doing something very silly 23:52:52 minion, what is lisppaste? 23:52:53 what would a bot like me know about lisppaste ? 23:54:03 minion should give the url as well, hehe 23:54:06 Guthur, tell minion about lisppaste 23:55:03 minion, lisppaste 23:55:04 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 23:55:09 ah 23:56:26 rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:18 Guthur pasted "Structing macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91966 23:57:28 just doing the slot name for starters