00:00:17 -!- geekles [n=smh@CPE-65-27-73-151.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:02:49 redblue [n=star@ppp141.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:09:22 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357050.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:11:44 ... Deepfire is complaining about the type of error signaled by the format string he's passing? 00:11:47 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:04 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:12:48 _deepfire: Care to explain what you think the bug is in bug 494761? 00:12:54 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:14:10 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:50 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.213.238] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 00:20:10 konr [n=konrad@201.82.138.201] has joined #lisp 00:21:13 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 00:23:32 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:23:53 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 00:24:26 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 00:25:14 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 00:31:13 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483DA1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:32:53 jfm3 [n=user@c-98-221-112-35.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:40 hello #lisp. I'm trying to understand the difference between quote and backquote in Common Lisp. I understand about unquote of course, but I'm trying to understand why one would ever need quote instead of backquote. It's that backquote copies where quote returns the same mutable referent every time? Can anyone url me some answers? 00:35:37 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSoec 00:35:40 -!- mrSoec is now known as mrSpec 00:37:13 I just read that portable clx got a bug tracker. great. :) 00:38:32 rpg [n=rpg@72.11.106.198] has joined #lisp 00:39:59 So i've got: (defun max-min (vec &key (start 0) (end 0 end-supplied-p)) ...) 00:40:00 jfm3: `',x for instance. Quote doesn't affect quasiquoting. 00:40:20 jfm3: (let ((x 'c)) `(register ',x ,x ,'x)) 00:40:23 -!- davazp` [n=user@61.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 00:40:27 can i set the default for end be (1- (length vec))? 00:40:38 yes 00:40:44 Shamiq: not (end (length vec)) ? Also, the default value is usually NIL, with parsing in the body, to simplify defaulting. 00:40:50 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:40:54 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:07 pkhuong: exactly what i was asking 00:41:08 stassats: thanks 00:41:22 sequence functions usually accept NIL for the end 00:41:24 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:43 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-206-89.bflony.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:43:54 `'x seems equivalent to ``x 00:44:00 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-059-023-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:44:26 c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:30 hrm 00:45:20 but `',x is not equivalent to ``,x 00:45:37 i see 00:45:41 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 00:45:56 I should have seen that. I'm having some kind of brain damage problem. Thanks #lisp. 00:46:46 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 00:47:11 interesting. `',x and ```,x 00:49:04 what interesting about it? 00:49:57 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 00:52:23 it seems like there should be a way to express `',x using only backquote, but I can't find it. 00:53:24 some cheating `(quote ,x) 00:54:04 no, I mean really without using quote :) 00:57:08 `,`,,x maybe? 00:57:12 probably not 00:57:27 jfm3: ` does not create a QUOTE anyway 00:57:28 hm 00:57:56 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:58:21 grnman [n=grnman@c-76-110-155-64.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:06 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 01:02:27 ``X prints as 'X in my SBCL here 01:02:43 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 01:04:23 (let ((x 'y)) (sublis `((x . ,x)) ``X)) => 'Y 01:04:47 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@140a.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 01:05:16 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 01:06:21 So say we have (DEFVAR X 5). `',X => '5 . Now how do we produce '5 with just BACKQUOTE. Let's try stassats 01:07:12 that's not portable 01:07:17 try clisp 01:07:38 do you recommend me any design patterns book? 01:07:48 I recommend c2.com 01:08:33 wow 01:08:37 looks pretty interesting 01:12:42 of course, most of them are irrelevant in lisp 01:12:50 since they're just macros 01:13:02 rahul: it's still useful to have vocabulary to discuss them. 01:13:53 I guess 01:13:59 well, I want to find out if this is really true 01:14:04 even if they are trivial features, it gives them names 01:14:05 If I can implement these patterns as macros 01:14:08 konr: www.dreamsongs.com 01:15:30 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-71-249-4-85.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:15:47 konr: visitor and factory are trivial, for instance. 01:15:56 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Verlassend"] 01:17:45 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:17:58 Visitor is multimethods the hard way. 01:18:52 and factory is only needed when you leak implementation details. 01:19:54 I like how "strategy" is a design pattern. 01:20:05 They should have also included "algorithm" and "data structure" at that point. 01:20:20 No, no... "strategy" is actually one of the useful ones. 01:21:03 strategy is a very specific idea, and it's applicable nearly everywhere; the only difference is that first-class functions make it simpler. 01:21:44 -!- rpg [n=rpg@72.11.106.198] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:23:38 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:23:45 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 01:24:28 factory is make-instance, basically 01:24:53 rahul: not quite. make-instance probably should return a direct instance of the class. 01:25:00 ruediger_ [n=quassel@93-82-12-87.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 01:25:26 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-25-138.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:25:35 -!- ruediger_ is now known as ruediger 01:32:35 bmf [n=footeb@173-11-62-37-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:30 Actually, I think I've seen factory in lisp as well. 01:33:31 -!- bmf [n=footeb@173-11-62-37-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [] 01:33:56 Isn't the CLIM abstract pane / frame manager relationship the factory pattern? 01:35:47 pkhuong: if the class passed is a variable, then you're asking for an arbitrary class 01:35:58 bx7_ [n=bx7@188.54.54.110] has joined #lisp 01:37:05 Again, isn't the point of factory that you can ask for a class with some given public name, and it doesn't matter what actual class the instance returned is so long as it behaves like the class that was asked for? 01:39:23 nyef: yes, the public name is the class name 01:39:31 and it can be stored in a variable 01:39:48 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 01:39:49 (make-instance *page-class* ...) 01:40:05 Again, isn't the point that -the factory- is allowed to change the mapping as it likes? 01:40:55 -!- jfm3 [n=user@c-98-221-112-35.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:41:03 ("Oh, look they want a *foo*, but are running in *bar-context*, so we should return a *foo-baz* instead of the more usual *foo-quux*.) 01:42:09 Or, "yes, give them a *foo*, but since they specified :frob, return a *frobile-foo*." 01:42:40 quodlibetor [n=user@146.95.21.18] has joined #lisp 01:43:04 It's essentially a way to specify smarter class selection and instance initialization behind a simple interface. 01:43:29 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-197-242.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:38 nyef: yes, exactly; it might make different subclasses depending on the arguments or execution context. 01:43:47 like...make-array! 01:43:58 Which, again, is precisely the frame-manager stuff in CLIM. 01:44:08 At least as far as MAKE-PANE goes. 01:46:08 bmf [n=footeb@173-11-62-37-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:19 nyef: a function can do that pretty much fine 01:47:35 (make-instance (page-class :single-column) 01:48:18 -!- rrice [n=rrice@63.81.0.20] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:51:04 -!- bx7 [n=bx7@188.50.62.165] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:55:05 ((null (nth-value 1 (gethash n acc))) 01:55:05 (setf (gethash n acc) (funcall func n))) 01:55:14 apparently i can do that without calling gethash twice 01:55:19 using multiple-value-bind 01:55:28 so my question 01:55:41 which val do i need to setf? 01:55:50 first or second? 01:56:35 first, yea? 01:56:52 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-67-180-9-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:54 uh. no. 01:56:57 you can't 01:57:16 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-59-183.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:57:29 prof critique: 01:57:32 No need to call gethash twice. Use multiple-value-bind to get both values returned by gethash. 01:57:53 codemonk1yx [n=codemonk@www.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:59 -!- codemonkeyx [n=codemonk@www.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:00:39 Shamiq: you're only calling gethash once in that paste; the other time you're calling (setf gethash) 02:02:10 huffingtonz [n=andrey@c-98-216-4-134.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:13 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 02:04:07 right 02:06:28 note that many implementations cache the last lookup in case you ask for the same thing again, so calling (setf gethash) after gethash isn't as slow as you might expect. 02:07:31 foom: so i don't think he's worried about speed but redundancy. 02:07:31 I am in need of a simple client/server chat program written in Scheme. Sincerely asking for help with this. 02:08:19 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:13:25 Is this part of a class assignment or something huffingtonz? 02:13:47 i know there is a right answer for that question and a wrong answer 02:13:58 the right answer is always "no" 02:14:02 bmf_ [n=footeb@173-11-62-37-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:54 huffingtonz: In other words, "yes", since you realized where the queston was going :) 02:15:40 that's a leap of faith on your part 02:15:43 huffingtonz: http://www.mail-archive.com/mit-scheme-users@gnu.org/msg00187.html -- this may get you at least a start. 02:16:08 thanks a lot, but I have been there 02:16:18 huffingtonz: in any case, this channel is for Common Lisp. for Scheme there is #scheme 02:16:29 good point arbscht 02:17:04 oh I'll have to try there 02:17:46 and..um... huffingtonz, I'm not trying to jump too far or assume. But, if you are trying to do something like this for an assignment - I'd just use the link given just now and build the chat thing off that existing code. if this is due at something like midnight tonight, you may just be screwed :) 02:18:28 TDT: it's fairly obvious my questions are homework related, right? 02:18:33 RFX [n=kvirc@93-103-186-1.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:15 Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:19:55 -!- benny` is now known as benny 02:20:43 Shamiq: kinda, kinda not - but clearly you're giving an attempt at it regardless :) 02:21:09 Shamiq: now if you came into a chat room saying "I need this code", that's just a tiny bit more obvious is all :) 02:21:15 haha 02:21:21 -!- Sumpen [n=Sumpen@78-72-33-106-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:21:33 instead i come in with horribly broken attempts to do....something.... 02:22:04 Not a bad thing, CL is a really hard language depending on your experience level...sadly, it's inverse. 02:22:30 Shamiq: homework *related* is okay, so long as you're honestly trying to work it out and not "gib me the code please" 02:22:57 the former is clearly the case with you 02:24:20 rahul: The other thing that a factory can do is arbitrary post-instance-creation initialization, which you can't do with make-instance. 02:25:46 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-zdkqcoyyrmqhlqpk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:28:50 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:29:30 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:29:38 nyef: well, you kind of can, if it chooses the right subclass :) 02:30:24 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@dlink214.imada.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:30:47 mathrick [n=mathrick@dlink214.imada.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 02:31:02 rahul: And that completely destroys the option of using a generic class with a strategy pattern. 02:31:53 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:32:04 nyef: you can always call change-class when you first do something to it! :) 02:32:32 That's more than a bit of a stretch. 02:33:18 Indeed. Factory pattern is of course useful, and you need go no further in CL than make-array to show it so. 02:33:24 Bad enough that CLIM seems to be specified to call change-class to add new mixins to sheets and such at various different times... 02:34:38 Meanwhile, it's getting sufficiently late that I should be off to bed. 02:34:41 G'night all. 02:35:56 night 02:41:50 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.138.201] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:41:58 konr1 [n=konrad@201.82.138.201] has joined #lisp 02:43:55 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.30] has joined #lisp 02:44:08 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1CE12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:08 -!- Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["gone but not forgotten"] 02:49:23 Cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:49:40 -!- Cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 02:49:44 hey, is there a function that does what I want (member '(foo) '((foo) bar)) to do? 02:50:38 shrughes_ [n=shrughes@c-65-96-172-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:59 Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:51:07 on second thought, I just realized how easy that is to implement 02:52:09 -!- Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:52:36 you can use sublis, kind of 02:52:55 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1C635.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:52:55 -!- segv_ is now known as segv 02:53:23 -!- shrughes [n=shrughes@c-76-118-176-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:53:32 -!- shrughes_ is now known as shrughes 02:53:39 oh, you just want a :test in member 02:53:49 tmh [n=user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 02:53:54 rahul: really? 02:53:57 Greetings lispers. 02:54:39 quodlibetor: (member '(foo) '((foo) bar) :test 'equal) 02:54:54 -!- RFX [n=kvirc@93-103-186-1.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has left #lisp 02:54:55 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357050.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:56:46 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 02:56:53 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1CE12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:57:01 segv [n=mb@p4FC1CE12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:09 rahul: awesome, that seems to work 02:57:11 -!- tmh [n=user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Client Quit] 02:57:41 (which means that it works for every test I have, thanks) 02:57:59 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 02:58:55 Back in rcirc. I finally broke down and installed a recent version of Emacs. I used to used rcirc, but don't have my configuration anymore. I was just here with ERC. 02:59:21 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-90-233.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:00:19 heh, using erc here 03:00:44 the best part of erc is how much customization I can do when I have a giant project due tomorrow 03:01:02 is your project on erc/ 03:01:34 I can't remember why I used to use rcirc versus erc. I used erc for a while and then switched to rcirc. Haven't used either in a year. 03:02:09 nope, if it was I'd probably be customizing eproject 03:02:12 Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-139-131.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:13 tmh: kinda like distribution-bouncing :) 03:02:49 Yeah, except my bounce was a result of outsider requirements. 03:04:17 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:04:18 Alright, ERC looks like it has better documentation. I'll be back in a minute. 03:04:19 -!- redblue [n=star@ppp141.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 03:04:23 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 03:04:54 tmh [n=user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 03:05:21 -!- timchen1a is now known as nasloc__ 03:06:04 I'll stick with ERC for a while, at least until I have a reason not to. 03:08:51 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:08:51 -!- blitz_` [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:09:48 blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 03:13:19 -!- Shamiq [n=Adium@wireless-165-124-97-62.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:13:31 beach: herep 03:14:52 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A8C36.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:15:02 dnolen 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joined #lisp 03:38:53 pong 03:38:53 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #lisp 03:38:59 is there a place where I can learn about CLIM ? 03:39:32 lowlycoder: http://mcclim.cliki.net/index 03:40:16 tmh pasted "Test paste" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91853 03:41:00 lisppaste.el should be improved 03:41:31 for example, with the ability to set timeout for pastes 03:41:33 I'm getting that impression. For starters, it needs to associate channels with emacs modes. 03:42:41 Well, I think I've seen enough for now. Thanks for humoring my experiments. 03:42:47 -!- tmh [n=user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 03:42:54 envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 03:43:13 stassats: nice; thanks 03:45:28 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:47:02 -!- ahaas [n=ahaas@71.59.145.125] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:48:15 -!- konr1 [n=konrad@201.82.138.201] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:50:38 -!- bmf_ [n=footeb@173-11-62-37-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [] 03:50:45 -!- bmf [n=footeb@173-11-62-37-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.2"] 03:53:17 -!- codemonk1yx [n=codemonk@www.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:55:48 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Success] 03:55:58 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:56:43 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 03:58:51 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:01:30 minion: message for beach: I take back what I said about failing clim-demo::demodemo - I tested it now with my socket problem corrected and it works nearly flawlessly, with exception of font selection (due to something inside pathname choosing) 04:01:31 what is ``it''? 04:02:15 minion: memo for beach: I take back what I said about failing clim-demo::demodemo - I tested it now with my socket problem corrected and it works nearly flawlessly, with exception of font selection (due to something inside pathname choosing) 04:02:15 Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks. 04:03:17 konr [n=konrad@201.82.138.201] has joined #lisp 04:06:02 ahaas [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:24 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:11:14 amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:26 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:12:40 -!- TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:14:30 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@140a.hackerdojo.com] has quit [] 04:16:24 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.30] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:19:24 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:22:05 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:03 hmm, does lisppaste.el require a channel? 04:31:29 you can say None 04:31:34 ah 04:33:02 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:03 -!- marioxcc [n=user@201.132.83.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:36:35 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 04:42:47 retupmoca` [n=retupmoc@adsl-76-235-169-202.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:47 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@adsl-76-235-169-202.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:43:57 -!- retupmoca` is now known as retupmoca 04:44:48 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-139-131.bflony.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:45:55 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-erjvyxzdfydvnnph] has joined #lisp 04:48:18 Good morning! 04:48:19 beach, memo from p_l: I take back what I said about failing clim-demo::demodemo - I tested it now with my socket problem corrected and it works nearly flawlessly, with exception of font selection (due to something inside pathname choosing) 04:49:20 -!- hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has quit ["`-`"] 04:51:55 p_l: It's OK. Some of them need to be improved anyway. 04:55:11 p_l: And the font selector doesn't crash anymore, but there is something strange with the list-box gadget. 04:58:33 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit ["Asta-la byebye"] 04:58:49 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 05:04:24 beach: in my case the problem ended up as trying to merge NIL with a pathname ;-) 05:07:14 Oh? Did you try it after my fix? 05:09:25 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:10:15 hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has joined #lisp 05:11:02 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has joined #lisp 05:18:51 beach: not yet, haven't updated for few days 05:20:11 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-67-180-9-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:24:36 beach: now it works 05:25:49 Great! 05:27:31 pixie works as well 05:27:42 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@117.192.135.218] has joined #lisp 05:27:45 Oh, haven't tried it. 05:27:46 -!- konr is now known as konr|afk 05:29:49 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 05:30:10 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 05:32:00 r00tzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 05:32:05 -!- dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:32:23 beach: how do I check what backend clim-demo::demodemo used? 05:33:42 ... I guess I just found out ;-) 05:34:20 -!- hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:35:36 (through failure in font selector) 05:35:40 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit ["Asta-la byebye"] 05:36:10 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 05:41:08 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Client Quit] 05:41:37 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 05:41:40 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-105-251.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:42:43 hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has joined #lisp 05:42:44 saikatc [n=saikatc@98.210.192.23] has joined #lisp 05:43:01 -!- rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:43:58 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:26 Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:50 -!- Spaghett1ni [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:03:09 -!- hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:03:27 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 06:10:06 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 06:10:51 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:11:44 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 06:13:38 p_l: which one was it? 06:14:02 p_l: Oh, wait, it's the CLX backend as I recall. 06:17:47 rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 06:17:51 -!- amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:18:10 hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has joined #lisp 06:22:09 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:23:17 -!- shrughes [n=shrughes@c-65-96-172-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:23:26 Atul [n=Jaylen@d192-24-134-89.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 06:23:41 -!- Atul [n=Jaylen@d192-24-134-89.nap.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 06:28:13 -!- r00tzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:31:17 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:31:26 the default was CLX, I was playing with loading GTKAIRO :) 06:35:16 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-96-224-31-174.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:36:57 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-12-87.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:39:18 attila_lendvai__ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 06:40:03 Osaka [n=Alien@fl-71-3-67-203.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:40 shrughes [n=shrughes@c-65-96-172-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:38 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:54:27 redblue [n=star@ppp029.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:55:00 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:56:26 -!- mcspiff`` [n=user@142.68.158.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:56:41 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:25 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:02:43 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@117.192.135.218] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:03:32 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:08:59 -!- angerman [n=angerman@host169.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [] 07:13:37 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:26:38 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 07:28:20 angerman [n=angerman@129.187.209.98] has joined #lisp 07:30:33 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:30:36 -!- angerman [n=angerman@129.187.209.98] has quit [Client Quit] 07:38:08 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 07:41:01 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:41:58 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:44:07 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:44:33 good morning 07:44:48 Ohayou gozaimasu 07:52:17 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-75-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:00:12 -!- cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:01:28 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:08:31 -!- _8david [n=user@port-92-195-41-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:10:54 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:10:58 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-206.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 08:16:30 -!- 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reset by peer)] 08:50:30 Good morning! 08:54:02 arnee [n=arnee@a89-182-195-194.net-htp.de] has joined #lisp 08:54:10 -!- arnee [n=arnee@a89-182-195-194.net-htp.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:55:07 good morning, spiaggia 08:56:08 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:58:10 tcr [n=tcr@138.246.7.146] has joined #lisp 09:01:13 aerique [i=euqirea@194.109.21.3] has joined #lisp 09:02:30 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:03:51 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:04:12 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 09:06:16 milanj [n=milan@109.93.32.30] has joined #lisp 09:11:13 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:11:38 jtza8 [n=jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-59.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:13:57 roidrage [n=roidrage@88.128.85.164] has joined #lisp 09:14:12 -!- roidrage [n=roidrage@88.128.85.164] has left #lisp 09:14:35 hello spiaggia 09:14:38 Huh how can lambda instead of labels make a performance difference?? 09:15:19 Are local named functions padded differently, or something like that? 09:18:24 I think the cross-compiler is stupider than the real one 09:18:50 -!- shrughes [n=shrughes@c-65-96-172-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:19:13 missing let-conversion, maybe 09:21:02 first mcclim getting bug tracker, then clx getting bug tracker + mailing list, and now it seems like someone's gonna make Garnet a cl.net project 09:21:16 happy ancient software week :-) 09:23:20 jsnell: Originally, I wanted to do this myself -- that is to provide a means in sb-cover to get at the internal source definitions for the slime contrib -- but now I don't have the time even though the fellow who wants to write the contrib, told me that he got time. I'm not sure he's capable of doing that work himself. Perhaps you could give it a shot at the weekend? 09:24:33 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 09:25:03 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-232-46.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:25:37 what do you mean by the internal source definitions? 09:26:03 ejs [n=eugen@70-30-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:24 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-206.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:27:15 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-28.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 09:29:30 not source definitions, sorry, I mean source paths 09:30:03 the slime contrib needs information about what paths color in what way basically 09:30:26 oh, right. shouldn't that be trivial, given sb-cover already works in terms of source paths? 09:31:45 yeah it's trivial for someone who wrapped his head around source paths, and the swank source path machinery :-) 09:32:36 btw. I'd think the copied source path stuff should go into its own contrib, say, sb-source-reader or something like that 09:32:50 of course, the last time I promised something would be trivial... 09:32:57 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 09:33:03 hah :-P 09:34:10 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:35:21 I'm not sure it's something we'd want to support as an exported extension, the whole approach is pretty kludgy 09:36:00 source reading, or about sb-cover now? 09:36:16 the readtable-hack based source reading 09:36:44 -!- tsuru` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:36:54 tsuru` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:34 as opposed to e.g. having the real reader store line number / column information 09:37:56 Yeah I was thinking of generalizing the reader 09:38:23 read-using-reader, where reader is some object you can subclass 09:38:56 well, this is something we'd want to be part of the normal compilation process 09:39:33 so that it'd be possible to show human-readable stacktraces by default, without having to use swank to get that information in a postprocessing step 09:39:45 (where by readable I mean file and line number) 09:40:17 ah ok yeah 09:41:57 I understand that this wouldn't be all that useful for swank with its "if the file has been modified, try to guess what this location maps to" system 09:42:49 doh, i forgot that i had let-conversion disabled, because it broke some source-locations recording 09:42:52 as a google employer, are you allowed to mentor gsocs? 09:43:02 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:04 no idea 09:45:11 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 09:48:31 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 09:52:00 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:02:12 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:04:56 hi 10:05:10 I have a question about fixtures in FiveAM 10:05:32 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #lisp 10:05:54 Sumpen [n=Sumpen@78-72-33-106-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:05:56 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-38-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:07:45 then I recompile file with def-fixture I get a warning about redefining fixture in lookup table IT.BESE.FIVEAM::FIXTURE. And all the tests stop working. 10:08:15 like if all the test suites became empty 10:09:22 if I comment out def-fixture form and recompile, everything works again 10:10:06 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:11:01 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:13:22 marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has joined #lisp 10:14:44 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has left #lisp 10:17:04 -!- envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:18:22 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has quit ["be back later"] 10:19:00 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:20:04 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:29:51 is there any project looking to compile Lisp to OpenCL, or at least expose it in some way? 10:30:53 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 10:40:28 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@22.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:41:48 rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:58 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 10:43:56 redb1ue [i=star@ppp097.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 10:46:49 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.211.27] has joined #lisp 10:47:50 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:49:24 -!- tcr [n=tcr@138.246.7.146] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:51:33 -!- ASau` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:53:59 YuleAthas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 10:55:51 NNshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-253-86.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:00 -!- redblue [n=star@ppp029.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:00:17 -!- redb1ue [i=star@ppp097.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 11:00:34 redblue [i=star@ppp097.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 11:01:54 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-33-216.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:03:15 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-188.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 11:09:37 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 11:12:38 -!- wlr_ [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:13:24 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:14:41 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-28.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:17:49 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:18:38 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:21:36 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:51 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:30:00 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 11:30:10 Is there a hook I could use right after a SLIME REPL loads? 11:31:02 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 11:31:54 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:32:51 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 11:34:11 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-73-50.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 11:35:15 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:55 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 11:38:15 -!- milanj [n=milan@109.93.32.30] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:39:41 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:43:58 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:44:06 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 11:44:11 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:44:45 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:45:22 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-169-240.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 11:47:04 -!- dto1 is now known as dto 11:52:04 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:52:33 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 11:54:02 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:00:42 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-59.wbs.co.za] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 12:00:50 -!- konr|afk [n=konrad@201.82.138.201] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:03:21 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:03:49 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-16.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 12:05:12 jtza8 [n=jtza8@41.208.219.59] has joined #lisp 12:06:12 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:07:11 envi_home2 [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:07:13 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:07:31 -!- envi_home2 [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:07:52 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d068b3e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:54 hello 12:11:41 envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:13:38 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:15:25 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 12:15:58 -!- Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-188.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:16:54 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:17:36 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:20:03 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:23:24 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-105-251.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:24:33 envi_home2 [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:24:50 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:24:58 -!- slackjaw [n=slackjaw@203-158-55-225.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 12:25:04 silenius [n=jl@192.166.201.90] has joined #lisp 12:25:43 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 12:31:19 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:33:26 sebyte [n=sebyte@vps203.linuxvps.org] has joined #lisp 12:34:19 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:35:16 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:24 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:35:28 Good afternoon 12:36:39 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:37:34 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:38:14 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 12:38:58 sebyte pasted "Packages and symbols" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91870 12:40:13 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 12:40:18 sebyte: (member 'foo::a foo::foo) 12:40:22 morning all, just pasted a question above - how to test to see if a symbol is a member of a list of symbols defined in another package? 12:40:36 plage: yes but how to do that programatically? 12:40:58 sebyte: What do you mean? 12:41:56 plage: well (member (intern (concatenate 'string "FOO::" (symbol-name 'a))) foo::foo) returns nil. 12:42:19 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:54 clhs intern 12:42:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_intern.htm 12:44:02 sebyte: Give the "FOO" package as additional argument to intern. 12:44:19 plage: i.e., the user of my program shouldn't needn't qualify any symbols so that the membership test returns true 12:44:24 (intern "FOO" "FOO") 12:44:37 plage: aha!!!! thank you very much 12:45:06 sebyte: You are better off using strings if that is what you are going to do. 12:45:12 -!- envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:45:44 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-27-85-141.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:45:59 plage: i realise that now as well, but it's a bit too late :) I may reimplement it using strings once i get this version working. 12:46:23 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:48:38 -!- envi_home2 [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:48:55 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:50:24 -!- hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:51:20 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:52:12 -!- ejs [n=eugen@70-30-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:52:56 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:53:30 c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:04 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 12:58:39 When I try to compile mel-base as installed by clbuild, I get a compilation error, but I can't figure out what the error is. Has anybody else seen this as well? 12:58:57 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-75-238.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:59:23 Fire up slime, and ,force-compile-system mel-base 13:02:21 Thanks, but now it breaks when trying to write .../sb-grovel/defpackage.fasl. 13:02:30 I have no clue what is going on. 13:06:38 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:07:08 Is there a library for parsing email messages including charset, mime parts, etc. 13:07:31 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:43 plage: Does defpackage.fasl exist? How's your permissions in that dirrectory? 13:08:01 it is owned by root and it has read for everyone. 13:08:29 And you're root? 13:08:43 No 13:08:46 forcing compilation is one of these cases where asdf really does do the wrong thing 13:09:06 (it forces dependencies as well, even those that you can't write fasls for) 13:09:32 plage: If you don't have permissions to write to that dir, then it's no wonder that you get the error. 13:09:51 jtza8: I don't think I would want to write to that directory. 13:10:33 jtza8: The bug is that anyting would want to write that fasl it seems to me. No? 13:10:50 Well where else should the fasl go? 13:11:12 jtza8: I am compiling mel-base, not sb-grovel. 13:11:30 Ah, ok, n.m. then :) 13:11:36 kwinz3 [n=kwinz@d86-33-115-65.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 13:11:45 jtza8: I don't expect recompilation of mel-base to start writing fasls in my sbcl installation directory. 13:12:12 Hehe, neather do I. 13:12:36 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 13:12:41 unfortunately, asdf's :force is recursive, period 13:12:59 what does the :force do? 13:13:23 I mean, I don't expect :force to magically fix the compilation error I got without it. 13:13:30 hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has joined #lisp 13:14:11 tcr: How will your advice help in fixing this problem? 13:15:11 remove all fasls and compile it again? 13:15:45 kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 13:15:57 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has left #lisp 13:16:05 tcr: I meant if there is a file that doesn't compile, do you expect it to compile when :force is used? 13:16:11 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has joined #lisp 13:16:42 hello 13:16:44 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 13:16:50 hello fe[nl]ix 13:16:57 hi plage 13:17:44 plage: yes, every problem can be fixed with a suitably big hammer. 13:18:21 That would be great! 13:18:29 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:19:02 plage: would? just go fetch a hammer, and use it on your computer. problem solved. 13:19:11 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-75-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:19:28 jdz: Indeed. 13:19:43 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 13:19:48 jdz: Or "vanished" rather than "solved". 13:19:50 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B3ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:31 Axius [n=ade@92.82.94.238] has joined #lisp 13:20:54 plage: end result is the same - the problem is gone. 13:21:16 plage: You might find out what the error actually is 13:21:44 tcr: I usually find out when I use the "accept" restart but this time there was nothing. 13:22:26 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:22:58 I have the impression that something has changed in the SBCL compiler error reporting, and I am fairly often lost now. I guess I don't get enough pratice. 13:23:08 jmbr [n=jmbr@22.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:23:34 quek [n=read_eva@210.253.202.182] has joined #lisp 13:27:02 plage: How did you find out when you invoke the accept restart? 13:27:25 ASDF is usually pretty good at hiding the actual error 13:28:41 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.94.238] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:29:44 tcr: I have the impression that sometimes the error message is not visible when the error is produced, only something "erred when compiling ..." but after having accepted, there is sometimes a visible error message. I could have made this up but that's the impression I have. 13:30:41 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:30:56 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 13:31:02 it's visible wheb you scroll-up 13:31:16 yeah. 13:32:03 -!- tsuru` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:32:06 tsuru` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:51 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-98-204-67-114.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 13:34:35 plage: I'm trying to build mel-base myself now 13:35:36 hello 13:36:31 3 warnings, 14 style warning, 1nnn notes 13:39:19 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:39:56 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-15.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 13:40:19 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 13:41:16 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@dlink214.imada.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:41:29 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-232-46.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 13:41:42 plage: what's your sbcl version? 13:41:44 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:42:07 -!- attila_lendvai__ is now known as attila_lendvai 13:43:02 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:54 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 13:45:32 uhm am I supposed to get " could not optimize away %SAP-ALIEN: forced to do runtime allocation ..." notes even with (speed 1) ?? 13:45:54 -!- huffingtonz [n=andrey@c-98-216-4-134.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:49:16 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 13:49:33 maybe it's not 1 locally? 13:49:33 tcr: usually it's because make-alien is called with variable args and cannot be stack-allocated thus the note 13:50:02 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:50:03 tcr: hold on... 13:50:21 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-16.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:50:22 tcr: 1.0.32 13:50:54 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 13:51:10 fe[nl]ix: Sure I just wonder why it's emitted even with (speed 1) -- it seems to be on purpose though (%sap-alien's deftransform is :important t) 13:51:52 spiaggia: Well me too, and loading mel-base did just work for me 13:55:26 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f75505f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:31 *sigh* 13:55:39 Thanks for doing that. 13:57:07 -!- spoofy [n=spoofy@78.31.74.25] has quit ["Changing server"] 13:57:48 You should probably try to find out what actually error it is. 13:58:20 oh, wait, I have a message: UNIX-FILE-KIND not found in SB-UNIX package. 13:59:09 Where (not (eq (swank-backend:preferred-communication-style) swank:*communication-style*)) would this mean that the specified communication-style isn't supported? 13:59:29 No 13:59:34 spiaggia, they changed the name of that function so you need to update whatever is using it 13:59:44 What is it called now? 14:00:10 sellout [n=greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:11 jtza8: preferred-communication-style is for backends to specify a communication-style that is known to work very well with the implementation's swank backend 14:00:38 *communication-style* is a variable customizable for a user of Slime 14:00:41 spiaggia, sb-impl:native-file-kind or something 14:01:06 tcr: Ok then, but how would I know if I am infact using that mode? 14:01:29 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 14:01:39 c|mell: Yes, except not exported. 14:02:05 jtza8: You have to check the backend's source. :-) 14:02:35 Heh, ok. 14:02:49 jtza8: There should probably be a function swank-backend::supported-communication-styles 14:02:53 jtza8: patches welcome 14:03:21 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:03:42 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:03:52 k 14:04:02 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:04:05 jtza8: If you actually do it, you should add a call to that function to swank:connection-info, too 14:04:22 spoofy [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 14:06:24 jtza8: and make SWANK::SETUP-SERVER error out if *communication-style* is not a member of (supported-communication-styles) 14:07:02 jleija [n=jleija@24.214.122.46] has joined #lisp 14:07:10 Right 14:07:20 will do. 14:07:48 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:10:48 tsuru`` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:48 -!- tsuru` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:12:00 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:55 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:13:29 jtza8 pasted "supported-communication-styles" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91876 14:13:51 tcr: That's what grep said. 14:14:09 Nothing like supported-communication-styles found. 14:14:51 jtza8: Heh, uhm I probably wasn't clear -- it's NOT there yet 14:14:53 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:15:00 but patches to add it are welcome 14:15:21 Ok heh, sorry about that then :) 14:16:21 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:16:42 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 14:16:47 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 14:20:10 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-73-50.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:20:31 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:20:36 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:21:02 jtza8: Btw. I just see that I misread your question 14:21:25 jtza8: I thought you were asking "How am I supposed to know which values for *communication-style* are valid for my implementation?" 14:21:45 jtza8: but you actually asked "How do I find out the communication-style I'm using?" 14:21:48 Is that true? 14:22:54 cvandusen [n=cvanduse@99-166-72-116.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:12 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:24:17 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:26:55 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:31:14 Jasko [n=tjasko@174.59.195.12] has joined #lisp 14:32:13 -!- tsuru`` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:32:16 tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:47 mcspiff`` [n=user@142.68.158.161] has joined #lisp 14:35:00 -!- quek [n=read_eva@210.253.202.182] has left #lisp 14:35:25 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:18 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:36:46 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-75-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:36:52 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 14:37:02 TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:20 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:37:33 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@student167-152.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 14:37:47 ejs2 [n=eugen@70-30-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 14:41:18 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-erjvyxzdfydvnnph] has left #lisp 14:42:01 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 14:44:06 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:45:45 tcr: Yes 14:45:46 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:46:44 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 14:47:26 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:49:01 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:49:33 jtza8: in that case (swank::connection.communication-style (or swank::*emacs-connection* (swank::default-connection))) 14:51:10 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:52:49 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:02 -!- sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:54:03 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 14:54:20 mvilleneuve: Hey, I am with the group of students who are going to work on stamp. Say hello! 14:55:03 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:17 hello, Stamp developers! :) 14:55:25 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 14:55:27 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:55:39 (and welcome on board) 14:56:24 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 14:56:53 Fare [n=Fare@24.218.127.11] has joined #lisp 14:57:29 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 14:57:47 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:57:54 konr [n=konrad@201.82.128.190] has joined #lisp 14:58:33 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 14:58:43 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:46 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:59:01 hmm..there was another project, climacs or something that is supposed to be an emacs clone in CL as well. 14:59:52 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 14:59:56 minion: tell TDT about Climacs 14:59:56 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:56 TDT: please look at Climacs: Climacs is an Emacs-like text editor written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/Climacs 15:00:19 plage: Thanks, but I know about it already :) unless there was something on my comment that was a mistake. 15:00:55 brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:02:23 isn't (AB)CL the extension language of an editor, too? 15:02:58 -!- sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:03:03 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:03:45 as i know it was... supposed to be an extension language of an editor and then grew out to a full implementation. 15:04:41 Fare: that seems to be how ABCL started off life, anyway 15:04:51 -!- Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:05:07 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 15:05:17 hi Fare 15:05:31 Of course, it's not unusual; Visual Basic has somewhat similar routes 15:06:35 Huh? VB-the-programming-kit was available long before the old macro system was swapped for VBA. 15:06:43 fe[nl]ix, Hi -- I'm porting iolib to xcvb so as to use it in xcvb, and am a bit stumbled by cffi-grovel, that I'm thinking about how to best integrate in xcvb 15:07:37 Fare: you need to port the two file classes to xcvb 15:08:09 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Client Quit] 15:08:14 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 15:09:47 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:56 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:57 Odin-: but it inherited some features of that old macro system, no? 15:11:29 -!- Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-15.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:11:41 rsynnott: VBA did, yes. 15:12:04 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:12:08 fe[nl]ix, yes. And since XCVB makes it less trivial that I'd like, I'm thinking about how could I make it trivial 15:12:13 oh, I thought VB did as well 15:12:14 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.111.234] has joined #lisp 15:12:16 nevermind, then :) 15:12:35 and maybe turn XCVB from something that's heavily CL-oriented to something that has is a more generic build system underneath 15:12:52 -!- tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:13:02 rsynnott: There might have been some crossing over afterwards, but VB did not arise from the Office suite's macro facilities. 15:13:35 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:15:58 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-32.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 15:16:08 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:16:11 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-74-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:16:50 mvilleneuve: They were very impressed! 15:17:11 Fare: someday I'll finish this C parser which will supplant both classes, but that's a low priority 15:17:16 spiaggia: by what? 15:17:23 by your answering so fast. 15:17:26 oh :) 15:18:05 are they still interested by the project? 15:18:06 fe[nl]ix, :) 15:18:26 mvilleneuve: Yes, as far as I can tell, it is all settled. 15:18:53 *Fare* would appreciate someone else with whom to discuss XCVB internals, but oh my I can't seem to hook anyone into working with me. 15:18:55 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:18:56 mvilleneuve: I know three of the four, and they were some of my best students in the Lisp project course. 15:19:14 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:19:17 [last year] 15:19:33 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 15:19:40 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:19:49 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:19:55 spiaggia: that sounds good! 15:21:02 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:21:58 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Boot me gently"] 15:22:35 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 15:23:09 tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:24 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:24:24 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:02 -!- tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:27:33 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:27:47 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:27:56 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["Offline for hardware upgrades"] 15:28:27 tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:12 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 15:32:17 -!- tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:32:18 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-1-16.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:35:39 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:36:00 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has left #lisp 15:36:39 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:36:46 -!- Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Success] 15:37:06 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:37:42 tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:57 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:52 -!- tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:38:59 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:39:34 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 15:40:16 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-27-85-141.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:44:24 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 15:46:29 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:47:53 rrice [n=rrice@72.254.58.237] has joined #lisp 15:48:19 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 15:49:40 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:52:23 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16] has joined #lisp 15:52:45 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:55:49 gz [n=gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:13 overdrive [n=user@81.202.74.13.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:57:28 -!- gz [n=gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:57:37 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:58:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 16:01:29 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:02:28 Fare: I'd like to talk to you about xcvb and build systems. My time for hacking is very limited. 16:03:33 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:07 uh, sure, Guest48442 16:04:15 do you have a real /nick ? 16:04:16 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:35 currently, XCVB is very CL-specific 16:04:51 Yes, but I get switched to Guestxxxx, since I don't know how to log in. 16:05:04 it is also complicated by several facts: 1- having multiple backends (and frontends) 16:05:08 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@194.109.21.3] has quit ["..."] 16:05:13 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:05:25 2- handling both "shell commands" and "lisp commands", which supposes having a model of the state of lisp images 16:05:51 3- the complexity of dependencies in Lisp 16:05:56 tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:20 Guest48442, for a casual nick, /nick 16:06:29 -!- Guest48442 is now known as brown 16:06:29 for a registered one, /msg nickserv help 16:06:30 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:06:41 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 16:06:42 That seems to have worked. 16:06:59 -!- brown is now known as Guest64584 16:07:08 -!- Guest64584 is now known as brown` 16:07:14 the nick is apparently registered by someone else :-/ 16:07:37 -!- brown` is now known as brown2 16:07:46 Not surprising. 16:08:13 you could use the first letter of your firstname as prefix in case "brown" is your surname 16:08:22 -!- ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 16:08:24 indeed. You can usually configure your client to try a nick and a series of fallback. And if you're a regular, you'll want to register your nick with nickserv 16:08:40 XXAceFalconXX is also available 16:08:51 -!- nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:08:56 -!- brown2 is now known as reb 16:09:19 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:09:26 a TLA that ain't taken? if I were you I'd register it quickly. 16:09:51 I'll take a look at the documentation for ERC. 16:09:51 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:10:17 leadnose [i=leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 16:10:42 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:10:47 Anyway, I find build systems interesting. The two most successful essentially use a domain specific language to indicate dependencies. 16:10:53 -!- piso [n=peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:11:01 ... of the ones I've used. 16:11:04 which are these two? 16:11:12 can you print (+ 1 2) to "1 + 2" somehow (maxima etc..)? 16:11:38 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:19 lhz: you can write a function MYPRINT that does what you want. 16:12:24 yes, xcvb uses kind of a dsl for lisp dependencies... so domain-specific in fact that (1) it doesn't generalize nicely to a general-purpose build system, and therefore (2) it's a pain to extend (in this case, to handle cffi-grovel) 16:12:41 First is the build system used by certain groupls at Goldman. Second is the one Google uses. 16:12:56 Xach: or a function PRINT in a package that shadows CL's PRINT. 16:13:19 indeed, there are many ways to make a function that is not CL:PRINT 16:13:46 The world could use an excellent general-purpose build system that happens to build Lisp effectively. 16:14:06 you can even rewire the reader and/or evaluator so that CL:PRINT doesn't read and evaluate to the underlying CL's CL:PRINT! 16:14:24 reb: have you seen OMake ? 16:14:33 No, but I'll take a look. 16:14:40 -!- a-s` [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:14:53 sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't just have written an OMake plugin, instead of playing catchup 16:14:59 -!- tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:15:47 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:16:02 Well, it looks to have some of the right properties, judging from the home page. 16:16:14 y 16:16:20 oops, wrong window 16:16:22 piso [n=peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:40 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:16:43 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:17:05 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 16:17:24 I'm probably a total noob for asking, but shouldn't my lisp process be interrupted and fed input before continuing, given that I AM using the SIGIO communication style? 16:17:52 (that is, when I call it from emacs, and it's still busy with another task. 16:17:53 ) 16:18:14 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:19:40 ... or is there some sort of call I need to make before SIGIO is honored? 16:20:02 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20:21 Fare: I think the difference between OMake and the proprietary build systems I've used is that the latter can assume things about the tools used. 16:20:42 what kind of things? 16:20:50 In a company, the build language can be at a higher level. 16:21:00 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:21:09 All the C code is compiled by the same compiler with the same basic switches. 16:21:36 You just indicate what source needs to be combined into a library. 16:22:09 The details are hidden in the build system. You rarely need the control something like OMake appears to offer. 16:22:23 Regardless, thanks tcr for all your help. 16:22:48 jtza8, I think SBCL documents the way it deals with signals 16:22:55 -!- prip [n=_prip@host69-133-dynamic.46-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:23:04 not sure about other implementations 16:23:24 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:23:34 prip [n=_prip@host122-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:24:05 tsuru``` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:11 got ecl to compile cl-opengl yesterday despite the moronic VC limit 16:25:27 geekles [n=smh@rrcs-74-87-125-221.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:50 Adlai: Well, I'm using SBCL, so I'll have a look. 16:26:21 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 16:26:23 if it's not documented in the manual, maybe introspect the sb-posix package, which is where I guess these things would be 16:26:36 adeht: neat 16:27:00 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:27:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 16:28:11 Xach: just hacked it to output a byte array rather than a string, and also had to change a char pointer to an array of chars for make-build to work.. (and also a cl-opengl symbol shadowing issue).. wonder why ECL doesn't do that already 16:28:21 reb: what are those right properties that you're thinking of ? 16:29:28 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:29:43 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:30:09 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1CE12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 16:30:16 demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:22 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:42 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:33:18 REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:35:03 From the OMake page it says that it uses MD5 digests to determine whether a file or compiler switches have changed. 16:35:53 jtza8: still, supported-communication-styles might be nice to have 16:37:16 -!- hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit ["leaving"] 16:37:39 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-241-219.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:37:52 The Vesta build system is interesting. 16:38:38 reb: that shows how long OMake has been around. XCVB uses TTH, but oh well, I'm not there yet. 16:39:01 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:55 Good evening! 16:42:28 -!- rrice [n=rrice@72.254.58.237] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:43:03 beach: good morning! 16:43:39 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp097.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:45:09 reb: so what if it uses md5? 16:46:43 adeht, an attacker could introduce trust-on-trust code by first having "good" code pass tests, be certified, then bad code with same signature being inserted in the cache. 16:46:53 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 16:47:41 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 16:47:42 Fare: the assumption that the build system should handle security is ridiculous 16:47:48 Fare: make clean 16:47:53 Fare: if you don't trust 16:48:07 Fare: if you're talking about theoretical ground, an attacker can do that with any hash 16:48:52 fe[nl]ix, it's just one link in the chain. Often not the weakest one. 16:49:24 adeht, have you read kt's turing award lecture? you should. 16:49:45 Fare: I read it some years ago, and it's nothing to do with practice 16:49:56 and no, not all hash functions are *actually* broken today. 16:49:59 or md5 in a build system 16:50:28 Fare: correction: not all hash functions are actually _known by you_ to be broken today 16:50:28 it's a minor nitpick anyway. Should work well enough in most cases -- just not what best practices would recommend today 16:50:49 adeht, more power to you if you know how to break TTH today! 16:51:07 or shaX 16:51:39 in any case, this is a minor point 16:52:01 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@84.18.242.227] has joined #lisp 16:52:12 a more interesting point is how to extract from XCVB a general build system on top of which I could extend XCVB. 16:52:19 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:52:24 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:52:30 defining my own series of DSLs and CLOS classes is a bit painful 16:52:46 there might be a meta-DSL in the hiding. 16:56:39 I suppose the first step will be to try to isolate the modifications from the cffi-grovel support into one file, then see how that generalizes to a macro that could generate this support from something higher-level 16:59:38 delYsid` [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:00:20 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:01:18 cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:02:11 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-32.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:02:56 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:04:17 -!- overdrive [n=user@81.202.74.13.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:04:19 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:42 overdrive [n=user@81.202.74.13.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:48 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:08:10 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:35 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 17:09:40 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:54 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has joined #lisp 17:14:27 -!- sebyte [n=sebyte@vps203.linuxvps.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:14:32 -!- nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:14:44 nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:32 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:15:50 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:16:06 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has left #lisp 17:16:45 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:57 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 17:17:09 gz_ [n=gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:55 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-CDE684CB.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 17:19:35 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:21:31 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has left #lisp 17:22:23 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 17:23:20 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 17:26:19 -!- plan9 [n=stian@arachnotron.sletner.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:27:27 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:27:31 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 17:27:40 serichsen: i what? 17:28:20 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:29:04 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 17:31:17 adeht: If your compiler transforms source into objects in a repeatable way, you can cache the transformation based on a hash of the input files and the compiler's command line arguments. 17:31:30 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit ["leaky video drivers -> reboot (or GC?) time .. *mumble*"] 17:31:46 You can't do this sort of thing if the compiler records a timestamp in the binary. 17:32:45 reb: you don't even need to concern yourself about whether the transformation results in the exact same output 17:32:50 reb: why's that? 17:33:16 well you can, but then multiple runs will return slightly different outputs, so you can't unify separately-started computations 17:33:25 -!- gz_ is now known as gz 17:33:39 and so the cache is LESS useful as economizing work 17:34:07 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 Fare: I'm not sure how you arrive at this conclusion 17:35:53 adeht: if you want to unify two distributed caches, you'll find that each has different copies of the "same" objects, just with different timestamps 17:36:23 so you need to centralize computations eagerly 17:36:29 also, your build is less reproducible 17:36:45 so you can't rebuild the exact same binary from source 17:37:01 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:37:33 and e.g. check you haven't been owned, or avoid weird heisenbugs 17:38:01 but you couldn't do rebuild the exact same binary anyway 17:38:33 if there are no timestamps, you could 17:38:37 It's very handy to use a hash as a stand in for a file, since it's much smaller. Your local build software might want to ask a shared compile server a question like: I have this source and these compiler switches, is this binary up do date? 17:38:38 and why shouldn't the linker link objects with different (or same) timestamps? 17:39:10 If builds are reproducible, the question can be asked with file hashes. 17:39:13 oh it can, and will 17:39:26 reb: my point was that you don't care about the output because you hash the input 17:39:32 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:38 reb: even if not, but you have to maintain a central table. 17:39:38 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:39:48 and it's less useful 17:39:58 Fare: yes 17:40:21 adeht: You care about the output because it's the input to some other compilation step. 17:40:48 reb: in that case, yeah that would be a problem 17:41:10 linkers are fast :) 17:41:14 -!- geekles [n=smh@rrcs-74-87-125-221.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41:42 (more compilation stages, however..) 17:41:53 *Fare* wonders what is the right persistent format for this metadata 17:42:08 a "cheap and stupid" solution would be to use the filesystem as the database 17:42:12 with one file per entry 17:42:51 assuming the underlying fs is reasonably efficient with big directories containing lots of small files 17:42:55 (reiserfs should be) 17:43:20 (I wonder if ext3 is) 17:44:15 The needed database operations are probably pretty simple. You might be able to prototype with files. Big question is whether you need to update more than one thing atomically (probably not). 17:44:24 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:44:26 Aren't you interested in history of metadata, too? In that case, git? 17:44:28 how about a key-value store 17:44:35 Berkeley DB is pretty good. 17:45:12 reb: right 17:45:43 I was thinking about maybe using elephant on BDB, or some such. We'll see. Files for now. 17:45:58 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.250.254] has joined #lisp 17:47:37 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:48:43 stassats`: are you here? 17:50:55 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:51:35 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 17:52:18 -!- Fare [n=Fare@24.218.127.11] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:52:43 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@70-30-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:54:17 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-66-168.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:57:50 seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:54 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-182-58.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:00:56 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:01:00 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:01:29 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:01:40 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:01:44 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:15 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 18:08:50 -!- silenius [n=jl@192.166.201.90] has quit [] 18:11:08 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Success] 18:11:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 18:11:51 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:12:16 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:13:57 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-gwoyfarfnbuzwgof] has joined #lisp 18:15:27 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has quit ["so long.."] 18:16:42 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:00 -!- gz [n=gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:18:06 gz [n=gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:55 skv [n=sasha@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 18:19:46 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:21:18 ejs [n=eugen@70-30-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:10 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has quit ["Valete!"] 18:28:01 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-123.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 18:28:15 -!- ejs [n=eugen@70-30-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:31:34 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:33:33 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:16 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:34:28 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:36:44 milanj [n=milan@91.148.65.164] has joined #lisp 18:36:51 -!- gz [n=gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:38:42 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 18:39:28 -!- Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@84.18.242.227] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:42:10 ejs [n=eugen@70-30-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:14 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [No route to host] 18:43:41 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:46:38 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:46:39 -!- xristos [n=x@research.suspicious.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:46:43 -!- ejs [n=eugen@70-30-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:47:52 maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:48:56 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-182-58.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:49:04 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 18:49:58 snearch [n=olaf@g225054176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:50:53 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:51:06 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:51:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 18:51:52 marioxcc [n=user@200.66.25.250] has joined #lisp 18:53:14 I kinda need an opinion from anyone willing. My package file, http://github.com/TheDarkTrumpet/cl-wordnet/blob/master/package.lisp basically I'm finding that with defclass, I need to export every accessor I use in my class. The package exports is getting larger and larger - is there a better way of dealing with exports? 18:53:14 Hi 18:53:29 ejs [n=eugen@70-30-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:20 TDT: you have to export symbols 18:54:33 TDT: if you want the symbol to be available to a user, you have to export it. 18:54:40 TDT: since you expose a big interface, it's no surprise that the export list is also big 18:54:50 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:54:58 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:02 Is there a hook to do something just before you are dropped into the debugger? 18:55:08 TDT: if you want to organize it in some logical way, you can use comments, or use multiple (:export ...) clauses 18:55:11 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:31 Xach: That's a good idea, I haven't thought of that - well the multiple exports. I think I'll do that to make it more clear. 18:55:31 Sikander: it is called *debugger-hook* 18:55:35 Sikander: obscure, i know... 18:55:48 No, really?! Dammit 18:55:52 adeht: yeah, that brings into concern that maybe my library is poorly organized. I'm still debating the structure at the moment. 18:57:36 Xach: But if you write a package, such as a library, that sets the *debugger-hook* to non-nil, how can you prevent a user from overwriting it? 18:57:53 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.250.254] has quit [Success] 18:58:15 Sikander: why would you want to do that? 18:58:32 Sikander: You can't. 18:58:37 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:59:05 I'm writing an ncurses backend for McCLIM, and basically, I need to exit the screen before being dropped in the debugger, or the debugger interface is crappy. 19:00:05 Sikander: that's fine, but why would you want to prevent the user from setting *debugger-hook*? Why limit how the user uses your software? 19:00:10 jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-65-235.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:00:32 Sikander: i think it would be sufficient to document that usage 19:00:47 drewc: Well, I don't want the user to _not_ set the debugger-hook, as long as I can add my hook to be performed as the last hook 19:01:14 Sikander: also, SETing *debugger-hook* is probably not a great idea either, i'd prefer it bound via LET or equivalant. 19:01:19 valent* 19:01:49 How would I go about letting the debugger hook if it should work for _all_ functionality once the mcclim application is running?! 19:02:06 I'd have to make a huge environment! 19:02:24 (defun start-application (foo) (let ((*debugger-hook ...)) ..)) ? 19:03:13 Sikander: slime binds the debugger hook 19:03:43 I don't use slime :( 19:03:55 eldragon [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 19:03:55 well, now you have two problems! :) 19:04:16 Sikander: I mean that could be a guiding example of how to do it in your own use 19:04:31 ah 19:05:07 So how does slime work, it lets the user let/set a debugger-hook but its own hook is always executed anyway? 19:06:17 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.132.38.178] has joined #lisp 19:07:18 I don't know, sorry. 19:07:55 Hmmm... Thanks for the help. I'll see what I can come up with, without limiting the users 19:10:41 -!- milanj [n=milan@91.148.65.164] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:10:53 -!- cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:11:05 geekles [n=smh@CPE-65-27-73-151.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:23 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:13:14 cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:13:24 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 19:19:14 xristos [n=x@research.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 19:20:20 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:20:39 -!- ejs [n=eugen@70-30-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:21:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 19:21:30 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:22:15 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:37 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:44 Sikander: On SBCL, there's sb-ext:*invoke-debugger-hook* which is tried before cl:*debugger-hook* 19:27:22 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 19:27:27 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:00 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:29:09 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 19:31:01 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:32:21 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:30 Wow I just find myself deeply confused :-) 19:35:52 (regarding debugger-hook, and what sbcl's swank-backend does, and how it all plays together) 19:37:27 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:37:42 *Xach* knew to back away at the right moment 19:38:05 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 19:39:06 the problem with *debugger-hook*, from slime's point of view, is that BREAK is specified to bypass it 19:39:25 but slime really wants to trap BREAK. Hence, *invoke-debugger-hook* 19:39:49 I sometimes wonder if a separate *invoke-debugger-on-break-hook* wouldn't be more useful 19:40:24 -!- tsuru``` is now known as tsuru 19:41:57 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 19:42:27 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-28-65-235.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:47:53 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:48:05 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:40 Hum... so this debugger-hook thing is more complicated than I had hoped. 19:48:48 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:49:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 19:49:43 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:50:27 quodlibetor [n=user@146.95.21.216] has joined #lisp 19:52:11 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.132.38.178] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:55:09 mstevens [n=mstevens@81.2.103.23] has joined #lisp 19:57:32 davazp [n=user@220.Red-79-159-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:43 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:00:00 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 20:01:01 tcr pasted "Do you object this small patch to SBCL?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91893 20:01:29 -!- geekles [n=smh@CPE-65-27-73-151.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:01:30 Will anyone mind if I commit that` 20:02:20 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@7.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:02:33 is it used anywhere else> 20:02:44 why not a local function? 20:03:56 Also, should the hook be bound to nil, or to an unbound value? 20:04:05 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-178.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 20:04:12 it was bound to nil before 20:04:24 nil 20:04:27 clhs d-h 20:04:28 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for d-h. 20:04:31 huh 20:04:34 clhs *debugger-hook* 20:04:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_debugg.htm 20:05:50 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 20:07:04 *i-d-h* is called nowhere else 20:07:19 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@22.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:07:32 Sweet. SBCL memory fault establishing a block in one thread and returning from it in another thread. 20:07:35 Purely academic. 20:08:38 I take that as no complaint :-) 20:09:18 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:09:40 Right. 20:10:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 20:11:01 jp_larocque: could have been much more perverse. 20:11:19 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:11:57 Yes. I was just thinking about unspecified behavior w/r/t Bordeaux-Threads. 20:12:03 And I thought that would be a pickle. 20:14:51 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-123.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Success] 20:15:04 -!- quodlibetor [n=user@146.95.21.216] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:15:27 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:38 Hello all. 20:15:52 TR2N- [i=email@89.180.135.176] has joined #lisp 20:16:00 davazp` [n=user@220.Red-79-159-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:08 -!- davazp` [n=user@220.Red-79-159-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:17 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:16:42 davazp` [n=user@220.Red-79-159-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:40 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-155-121.net.novis.pt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:17:43 -!- TR2N- is now known as TR2N 20:19:06 holy schmoe, break is specified to bind *debugger-hook* to nil, and I'm wondering about what I had been seeing 20:19:37 tcr: as krystof mentioned... 20:19:47 -!- fihi09`` [n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:19:57 fihi09`` [n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:31 Xach: It's not the same thing exactly 20:20:48 ok 20:21:05 -!- overdrive [n=user@81.202.74.13.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:21:10 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@41.208.219.59] has quit ["Zzz"] 20:21:11 slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:14 morphling_ [n=stefan@gssn-5f75505f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:32 I had in mind that "*debugger-hook* won't catch calls to BREAK", but it didn't cross my mind by what means that's actually done 20:29:05 Has anyone managed to get CLSQL's sql syntax stuff to work reliably? It seems to simply not work depending on the time of day. 20:29:16 bpr [n=user@cpe-72-231-172-136.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:17 (as in, the reader syntax isn't enabled) 20:29:25 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-135-120.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 20:29:33 oh, you have to be kidding 20:29:40 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:29:41 clsql should be modified to use named-readtables 20:29:50 how did anyone come up with this way of programming octet external formats 20:30:06 I mean, I know I have been guilty of lapses of taste and style in the past, but this is ridiculous 20:30:08 -!- madnificent [n=madnific@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:30:14 Krystof: I was about to apologize for asking something so stupid :( 20:30:49 madnificent [n=madnific@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:31:12 -!- myst [n=myst@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-65-81.telecom.by] has left #lisp 20:31:28 no, yours is a perennial complaint :) 20:31:50 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Success] 20:32:10 is there an accepted workaround to it, or should I just use QUERY and forget this silliness? 20:32:15 -!- davazp [n=user@220.Red-79-159-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:32:30 (although I guess QUERY doesn't give me objects :( ) 20:32:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 20:32:35 tcr: "should be" as in "has been to my knowledge", or as in "it would be nice if that would be done"? 20:33:26 serichsen: "should be" as in The Right Thing 20:33:31 serichsen: your earlier comment is driving me crazy 20:33:40 Xach: ? 20:34:41 serichsen: You said I was thwarting your lecturing method. 20:36:27 Xach: ah. I was referring to a stackoverflow question where you (you are "xach", right?) just flatly presented the code I wanted the asker to work out after giving a hint (I am "Svante"). 20:36:57 serichsen: aha, i see 20:37:11 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f75505f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:37:28 Xach's there to beat lispm, no time for pedagogy :-) 20:37:34 heh 20:38:20 lispm is so proud of his lisp badge, but he will never achieve what I have achieved: I got the taxonomist badge for creating the common-lisp tag ;) 20:38:29 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:00 kjbrock [n=brock@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:30 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 20:39:35 ....so I assume that means there's no way around clsql's reader issues? 20:40:01 sykopomp: look at named-readtables, I have no other idea either 20:40:40 sykopomp: we "fixed" it by making it behave like most other read syntaxes... might still not be "fixed" 20:41:01 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:41:11 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:26 bobbysmith007: meaning? 20:41:55 sykopomp: http://paste.lisp.org/display/91896 20:42:10 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 20:42:19 meaning it works when you compile the file and you dont constantly have to fight with it to get it enabled /disable 20:42:37 sykopomp: by doing it that way it seems to be MUCH more reliable 20:43:19 sykopomp: to get it to work with C-M-x and C-c C-k , you can just evaluate that form. 20:43:58 bobbysmith007: so, slime-compile-defun doesn't work, but slime-compile-and-load-file does? 20:44:31 -!- snearch [n=olaf@g225054176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:44:56 bobbysmith007: http://common-lisp.net/project/editor-hints/darcs/named-readtables/doc/named-readtables.html 20:45:07 serichsen: well... slime-compile-defun works, fine after you have eval'ed (file-enable-reader-syntax) (by for example C-M-x that form) 20:45:21 bobbysmith007: if I am not mistaken, postmodern uses a macro instead of a reader macro. Perhaps that would be an alternative? 20:45:40 tcr: I have played with both named-readtables and clsql-syntax-sugar and found both to be more complex and less reliable 20:45:58 tcr: though I might have just been not giving named-readtables time enough to convince me 20:47:02 There are cases where named-readtables are not reliable yet because it's not properly implemented into slime yet 20:47:44 serichsen: possibly, we currently have a lot of code that depends on clsql syntax and peculiarities. I have written a cl-postmodern backend to clsql which I am hoping to use to eventually transition to cl-postmodern. For the moment though, everything is working which is a state I am somewhat reluctant to leave without obvious benefits for doing so 20:48:45 if only I could use postmodern ;____; 20:49:12 sykopomp: you can still use select without the syntax enabled as well, its just wordier 20:49:44 sykopomp: you end up with (sql-expression :text " home_id=${id}") for example 20:50:32 -!- kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:51:16 sykopomp: It might be preferable to lots of syntax randomly failing (which was my experience with the default clsql-reader stuff) 20:51:19 ech 20:51:31 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 20:51:38 I'm on a deadline, so I can't deal with this too much :((( 20:51:40 gesundheit 20:51:46 Well I wrote named-readtables with the clsql headache in mind 20:51:58 tcr: I can't port named-readtables to clsql right now! :(((( 20:52:04 -!- highb [n=highb@shell.onid.oregonstate.edu] has left #lisp 20:52:20 I suggest you should bite into that sour apple then, and hack rather than chat :-) 20:52:58 I got the help I needed. I might look into sending a named-readtable patch if this all works out. 20:53:03 bobbysmith007: thanks 20:53:27 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:53:39 tcr: it's not properly implemented in slime yet? what remains to be done? 20:53:45 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 20:54:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 20:54:10 sykopomp: here is a paste, with a working no-syntax example http://paste.lisp.org/display/91896#1 20:55:21 Xach: At the moment, IN-READTABLE pushes onto SWANK:*READTABLE-ALIST* which leads to readtable-at-package-granularity rather than at-file-granularity 20:55:50 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:56:12 tcr: ah 20:56:35 Doing it properly would mean some not-that-difficult but large changes because heller wants it done in some peculiar way 20:56:36 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 20:56:48 changes over the whole code base that is 20:57:36 bobbysmith007: gah... 20:57:54 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:37 KatchaFire [n=KatchaFi@bas33-4-88-180-245-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:45 -!- bpr [n=user@cpe-72-231-172-136.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:06:03 jmbr__ [n=jmbr@161.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:08:15 -!- morphling_ [n=stefan@gssn-5f75505f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:08:17 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@7.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:08:47 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:09:53 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:11:30 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 21:13:15 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 21:13:32 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 21:14:09 piso: hi. quick ABCL note: I've got bootup times reduced by 30%: mine is now around 1s (!) 21:14:50 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:14:58 ehu: what about if you're running under cloak? 21:15:02 *Krystof* jests 21:15:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 21:15:44 Intensity [i=[hNdzLhl@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 21:16:52 Krystof: I'm trying to figure out what you mean. However, I didn't succeed. What's "cloak" in the context of running a CL implementation? 21:17:17 cloak is lichtblau's JVM-in-sbcl 21:17:38 lichtblau [n=user@port-92-195-41-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:17:45 there's a "screenshot" somewhere of an abcl booting in cloak faster than in a real jvm 21:17:48 oh, speak of the devil 21:18:12 clojure on cloak on sbcl would be interesting 21:18:17 heh 21:18:41 heh, indeed. 21:18:43 the lightning talk on the subject could be taken up entirely by the startup time 21:19:11 Xach: clojure boots slow? 21:19:15 if it's too fast for that, i'm sure a suitable computer could be find that makes it work out correctly... 21:19:18 or if cloak was ported to abcl ... 21:19:39 does anyone know how SBCLs thread support is on Mac OS X x86_64 (10.6 specifically). The INSTALL file only talks about experimental support for x86_32. 21:19:40 ehu: i think the layering could make things slow down. if it's not slow enough, maybe more layers could be added. 21:20:16 Krystof: I'm interested. I'll give it a try. 21:20:20 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 21:20:51 ehu: for example, you could insert abcl/cloak padding any number of times 21:21:34 and run it all on wine on a kvm 21:22:01 one such layer would be enough to fill a non-lightning talk 21:22:16 "cloak boots real fast" 21:22:46 but getting rationals, strings and any additional types takes extra 21:23:17 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has left #lisp 21:24:15 with a really smart compiler, could optimize away the layers? 21:24:38 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:24:47 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-232-46.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:56 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:09 tcr: therep? 21:25:36 rpg: somewhat I was just about to leave for a short while to make me something to eat; what's up? 21:25:56 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@174.59.195.12] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:25:57 Ok, never mind. I have a small patch for SLIME. I'll email it to you; drop me a line if it makes no sense... 21:25:59 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 21:26:06 tcr: bon appetit! 21:26:13 rpg: Just paste it via lisppaste, I'll look at it in a few minutes 21:26:49 perhaps stassats` is available 21:28:09 rpg pasted "patch for swank-asdf.lisp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91902 21:28:23 Makes ACL happier; no-op for everyone else. 21:28:40 rpg: that is an interesting combination of predicate function conventions. 21:28:42 rpg: Yeah right I sent stassats` a patch along that line 21:28:52 'therep? <- 21:29:22 sykopomp: I'm speechless ;-) 21:29:31 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:30:17 -!- jmbr__ is now known as jmbr 21:31:28 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit ["leaving"] 21:34:47 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:35:02 btw, if all you had to do to make a release would be to make a tag in your (D)VCS, would it cause you to "release often"? 21:35:33 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 21:35:35 brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:36:10 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 21:36:41 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:37:16 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:37:28 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:39:17 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 21:40:11 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-178.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 21:40:32 -!- Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-178.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:40:51 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 21:41:09 For any clsql experts here...if I have an instance of an objbect (view object) from a select done, and I want to insert it into a database, how do I do that? I saw the method: update-records-from-instance, but none that are insert-records-from-instance..or anything equivalent from the manual or the code. 21:42:58 I can use the normal insert and decompose the instance..but I'm not really fond of doing that, if possible. 21:45:39 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:34 Hi ! How can i print the "float $1" ? I'm using clisp 21:47:26 How can I specify the architecture that SBCL is built for explicitly? (I'm on OSX 10.6 and want to build a 32 bit version, but the system default is 64bit) 21:48:06 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 21:48:29 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:29 SBCL_ARCH=x86 ./make.sh 21:49:36 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-96-224-31-174.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:38 -!- skv [n=sasha@67.136.131.11] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:51:53 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:34 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@81.2.103.23] has quit [] 21:55:11 Krystof: Thanks! (Sorry if it is in the docs, I didnt find it anyway) 21:55:35 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:56:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 21:56:57 TDT: I thought update-records-from-instance did that. At least, that's how it seems to be behaving for me :) 22:01:07 hm. I'd really like it if abort() / SIGABRT threw me into the debugger instead of halting. 22:01:36 foom: you can install an arbitrary sighandler 22:03:11 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:04:00 TDT: isn't update an insert-or-update really? 22:04:14 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:06:18 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:06:22 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:08:21 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has left #lisp 22:09:16 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 22:09:18 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:09:37 Transformer [n=Transfor@ool-43563460.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:48 demmeln1 [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 22:11:14 -!- Transformer [n=Transfor@ool-43563460.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 22:11:24 -!- KatchaFire [n=KatchaFi@bas33-4-88-180-245-209.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 22:12:12 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 22:15:15 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:15:15 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:15:28 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:27:42 -!- demmeln1 [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:28:56 davazp`` [n=user@247.Red-88-8-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:02 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:29:57 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:30:04 another clsql question: If I create a view class which has an :auto-incremented id slot, and I use update-records-from-instance, what's the cleanest way to get the new id that the mysql database generates into the id slot on the object I'm currently working with? 22:31:37 sykopomp: hmm, weird, it's not inserting the record for me, it actually does an update. 22:32:23 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 22:33:02 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:33:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 22:35:17 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:37:16 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:25 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-241-219.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 22:39:11 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 22:39:16 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:39:28 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:40:32 gz_ [n=gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:42 -!- gz_ [n=gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:41:37 francogrex [n=user@91.182.49.182] has joined #lisp 22:43:13 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:43:35 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 22:44:32 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:44:34 -!- davazp` [n=user@220.Red-79-159-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:44:57 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:46:02 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:46:18 bx7 [n=bx7@188.54.29.122] has joined #lisp 22:51:22 bx7__ [n=bx7@188.48.81.252] has joined #lisp 22:52:27 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:52:39 balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 22:53:01 -!- bx7__ [n=bx7@188.48.81.252] has quit [Client Quit] 22:53:13 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-101-205.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:26 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:54:30 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:54:54 -!- TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:55:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 22:56:22 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 22:59:01 -!- bx7 [n=bx7@188.54.29.122] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:04:08 -!- bx7_ [n=bx7@188.54.54.110] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:04:21 balooga1 [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:05:49 shrughes [n=shrughes@c-65-96-172-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:51 -!- akamaus [n=maus@78.31.79.39] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:06:14 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.182.49.182] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08:54 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:09:11 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-74-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:21 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-74-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 23:09:56 -!- davazp`` [n=user@247.Red-88-8-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:10:18 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-101-205.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:10:50 davazp [n=user@113.Red-83-55-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:35 davazp`` [n=user@113.Red-83-55-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:57 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:14:04 -!- Sumpen [n=Sumpen@78-72-33-106-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:32 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 23:16:10 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-219.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 23:18:24 We approach the 2000th revision of slime/ChangeLog 23:19:46 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:19:58 celebration? 23:20:43 it's the slimeageddon 23:20:57 REPENT, ALL YE VIM USERS! 23:21:37 -!- balooga [n=00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:21:56 We're so smug we wouldn't even turn up our nose on vim users :-) 23:22:07 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32D2F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:12 Posterdati_ [n=angel@host101-35-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:23:21 benny` [n=benny@i577A8835.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:24:48 Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-80-247.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:26:07 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-178.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:26:54 redblue [n=star@ppp156.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:29:45 -!- sellout [n=greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:29:48 -!- Posterdati [n=angel@host226-212-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:31:45 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:32:24 tcr: on what? ;) 23:36:36 Now I feel bad, I should have spent the last three hours learning for an exam :-/ 23:38:37 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A8C36.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:38:50 rahul: Never! 23:41:35 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-98-204-67-114.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:37 -!- nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:41:38 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:42:02 nipra [n=nipra@123.238.241.4] has joined #lisp 23:44:21 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 23:47:38 -!- benny` is now known as benny 23:49:48 -!- ahaas [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:51:02 ahaas [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:39 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.211.27] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 23:51:51 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:51:52 Geralt1 [n=Geralt@p5B32D4E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:10 -!- Geralt1 is now known as Geralt 23:58:51 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:59:03 -!- cvandusen [n=cvanduse@99-166-72-116.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"]