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[n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:42 When I right-click on an instance in the REPL, and choose inspect, what function is that calling? slime-inspect calls something else. 00:38:09 -!- grouzen_ [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:04 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:42:08 -!- prxq_ [n=mommer@78.52.27.139] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:42:22 rahul [n=rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:15 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:49:00 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.223.26] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 00:49:27 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:37 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 00:52:10 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 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[n=taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Nichts mehr."] 04:42:31 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 04:43:34 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-216-183.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:44:03 -!- kmc__ is now known as kmc 04:47:35 ohday [n=ohday@unaffiliated/ohday] has joined #lisp 04:48:38 Are there any thoughts on the book, LiSP in Small Pieces? 04:49:25 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:49:33 I've been advised on occasion to read SICP, I didn't really like the prose attached to it, whereas the book LiSP discusses various dialects of Lisp, along with some knowledge in material exceeding the conventional Lisp horizon. 04:50:44 If anyone who's read it has had any qualms, however -- could you please state so? If you're interested, I'm learning Lisp purely because of how elegant I hear it is; there's something about true elegance that strikes a chord. 04:51:12 The SICP is meant to teach you about algorithm design, systems internals, and what not, I hope, to some degree this book holds true of this as well. 04:51:25 So, if anyone's read it. :) 04:51:49 *_3b* hasn't gotten a copy yet, on my list of things to read at some point though 04:52:39 <_3b> if you are looking for 'elegant' you might be more happy with scheme, CL (the main topic of this channel) focuses more on being useful :) 04:53:04 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dman@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:53:42 <_3b> for more CL oriented books, you might also look at PCL and PAIP 04:53:48 This book seems to discuss both in equal amounts, hmm. 04:57:28 Good morning! 04:58:11 _3b, Thank you. 04:58:15 ohday: The two are very different books. 04:58:36 -!- ruediger_ [n=quassel@93-82-12-102.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:59:02 ohday: SICP is an entry-level book about programming, LiSP is about writing compilers and interpreters for Lisp. 05:00:09 beach: Ah. 05:00:09 ohday: I think LiSP is a great book, and the English translation is even better than the original :) But if you don't know Lisp, you should try something else first, like PCL. 05:00:17 Pete_R [n=quassel@78.97.98.73] has joined #lisp 05:00:24 beach: Upsetting. 05:00:31 beach: PCL stands for? 05:00:40 minion: tell ohday about PCL 05:00:40 ohday: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 05:01:15 beach: Thank you 05:01:22 no problem. 05:02:24 how do I determine the number of elements in a vector after vector-push? 05:02:37 clhs length 05:02:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_length.htm 05:03:55 dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:10 or (1+ (vector-push ...)) 05:05:08 -!- dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:05:14 stassats`: I need to evaluate this on a loop 05:05:43 and one more please: how do i use a vector as a push down list? 05:06:20 is there any way to get clsql-mysql working without having to install the dev packages (the ones that include mysql*.h) 05:06:23 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-088-232.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 05:06:45 I have a machine that I can build clsql-mysql.so with, but simply giving it the .so doesn't seem to please clsql. 05:07:17 ohday: PCL is very good book IMHO, also because it allows you to start working instead of getting smug that you're learning 05:07:37 Pete_R: use vector-push-extend to push, adjust the fill pointer to pop 05:09:46 Pete_R: If you are going to do a lot of such operations, you might want to look into flexichain. 05:09:55 minion: tell Pete_R about flexichain. 05:09:56 Pete_R: please see flexichain: A Library needed by Climacs and Gsharp. http://www.cliki.net/flexichain 05:10:34 george [n=george@189.107.193.12] has joined #lisp 05:10:41 Pete_R pasted "Vector-push" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91803 05:11:22 Please take a look at the paste 05:11:48 the problem is the when condition of the loop 05:13:06 I need to test if the vector is empty 05:13:17 Pete_R: That code has other problems. 05:13:35 beach: I'm listening :) 05:13:39 Pete_R: You should put a space before the first `(' in a group. 05:13:39 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-120-151.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 05:13:49 Pete_R: Align all the variable bindings in the let. 05:14:00 Pete_R: Indent the body of when with 2 spaces. 05:14:28 Pete_R: Use when instead of if when there is no `else' part. 05:14:48 or unless 05:14:52 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has joined #lisp 05:14:58 dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:59 In this case, yes. 05:15:20 Pete_R: Use `-' rather than `_' in identifiers. 05:15:24 I use slime and I let it take care of indentation 05:15:30 or cond if there's more than one condition 05:15:42 Pete_R: Perhaps you use SLIME, but you don't seem to let it take care if indentation. 05:15:59 *of 05:16:14 <_3b> looks like tab damage 05:16:25 beach: would you please tell me how to do that? I only use tab :) 05:16:34 TR2N- [i=email@89-180-155-121.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 05:16:47 C-M-q at the beginning of a defun 05:16:55 and M-x untabify 05:16:56 Pete_R: That should have worked. Does your paste look like your code? 05:17:03 -!- george [n=george@189.107.193.12] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:17:10 beach: are you using lisppaste.el? 05:17:17 I am yes 05:17:34 stassats`: For the first time, yesterday. 05:17:44 it looks better at the web 05:17:47 -!- Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["gone but not forgotten"] 05:18:00 Pete_R: Don't quoite T. 05:18:04 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-159-159.net.novis.pt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:18:07 -!- TR2N- is now known as TR2N 05:18:10 -!- hjpark [n=user@jaram.hanyang.ac.kr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:18:13 i accidentally have turned it off for this paste 05:18:16 Pete_R: and use lower-case: t 05:18:21 beach: yes, they are the same 05:18:42 Pete_R: Then you didn't hit tab on the line that starts with (d2... 05:18:53 Pete_R: Or your Emacs is broken. 05:19:27 beach: do you have different tab-stop? 05:19:35 beach: in the let form? 05:19:39 stassats`: Different from what? 05:19:47 beach: from 8 05:19:48 stassats`: I am reading the paste in my browser. 05:19:53 stassats`: No. 05:20:06 <_3b> beach: looks OK here (firefox 3.5) 05:20:08 *p_l* ponders why UIs have such a hard-on for estimating time... 05:20:10 strange, because it looks alright for me 05:20:21 Thats strange! 05:20:23 both in lisppaste and web 05:20:28 lisppaste.el 05:20:56 My bad then (or rather that of Firefox). Sorry. 05:21:28 <_3b> it does use tabs though, so that part should be fixed, for just this reason :) 05:21:48 _3b: what should i do? 05:21:52 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:21:53 right, use M-x untabify and (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil) 05:22:01 unless you are defensive about tabs 05:22:59 stassats`: I read in pcl about hitting tab at the begining of a line to let slime indent the code :) 05:23:08 I'm trying to get clsql with mysql up and running on a server I don't have root access to (and thus, cannot install the dev packages for mysql on) 05:23:15 Pete_R: that's different 05:23:23 Pete_R: Using length on a vector with a fill pointer returns the value of the fill pointer. 05:23:42 Pete_R: pcl talks about the key, not about character 05:23:57 Pete_R: In Emacs, TAB doesn't necessarily insert a TAB character. 05:24:03 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:24:04 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 05:25:01 clsql-mysql insists on trying to compile its clsql_mysql.so file, bit it's failing, since it doesn't have access to any of the headers, on that box. 05:25:14 -!- ohday [n=ohday@unaffiliated/ohday] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:25:18 is there a way to compile everything clsql needs on my own computer, then just upload the files and be done with it? 05:26:16 beach: then how should i declare the vector? 05:26:50 to get the count of the actual elements in it? 05:27:02 clhs array-dimensions 05:27:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ar_d_1.htm 05:27:33 or array-dimension 05:27:43 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:47 Pete_R: You don't declare it. You create it with (make-array mumble :adjustable t :fill-pointer 0) 05:28:05 Pete_R: and, as I already said, you use length to get the number of elements. 05:29:04 beach: just for fun - why mumble? :) 05:29:21 Pete_R: 5 05:29:43 Pete_R: I don't know what initial size of the vector you might want, so I used mumble. 05:30:04 Pete_R: Another problem with your code. When you compare numbers, use eql or =. 05:30:14 Pete_R: But to test for zero-ness, use zerop. 05:30:29 beach: Ah, ok :) 05:35:07 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:35:20 emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:56 Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:39:04 dysinger` [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-132-170.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:39:17 -!- dysinger` [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-132-170.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:39:52 grumps [n=grumps@adsl-69-209-65-52.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:57 Tank you again guys! :) 05:40:03 no problem 05:40:09 -!- Pete_R [n=quassel@78.97.98.73] has quit ["Off to work"] 05:40:16 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-118-235.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:42:06 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:51:56 -!- emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:59:22 -!- fatalnix1995 is now known as fatalnix 06:02:08 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit ["out"] 06:02:49 -!- grumps [n=grumps@adsl-69-209-65-52.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit [] 06:04:20 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-088-232.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:15:49 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:16:12 dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:15 -!- Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["gone but not forgotten"] 06:26:20 grumps [n=grumps@adsl-69-209-65-52.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:33 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 06:28:01 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:29:54 -!- grumps [n=grumps@adsl-69-209-65-52.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:35:33 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 06:38:35 cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 06:41:13 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:41:40 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:47 dnolen_ [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:54 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 06:44:51 jmbr [n=jmbr@213.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 06:46:35 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 06:47:08 amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:30 Osaka [n=Alien@fl-71-3-67-165.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:13 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:59:14 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 06:59:52 -!- mcspiff` [n=user@142.68.79.57] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:02:52 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:03:34 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:04:48 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:11 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:07:36 <_deepfire> Ok, I feel it's time to jump the ship of fail. I'm going to parse the .asd files manually. 07:08:38 <_deepfire> These recursions of death are really getting to me. 07:08:44 -!- cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:11:43 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:31 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:15:42 fiveop [n=fiveop@e179161072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:25:34 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:25:48 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:26:03 -!- hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:26:45 muopioid [i=62f7735e@gateway/web/freenode/x-mryxfkqjhierrahi] has joined #lisp 07:26:50 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:29:06 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:30:29 -!- amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@c-67-169-77-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:30:39 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 07:30:41 roidrage [n=roidrage@80.187.210.13] has joined #lisp 07:30:43 snearch_ [n=olaf@e179133155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:31:36 ASau [n=user@host179-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:33:10 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:35:29 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:37:47 hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has joined #lisp 07:38:43 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 07:39:13 aurele [n=aurele@unaffiliated/aurele] has joined #lisp 07:39:40 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:41:49 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:42:10 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 07:43:41 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@213.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Success] 07:49:51 akamaus [n=maus@78.31.79.39] has joined #lisp 07:53:03 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:19 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:55:43 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:42 -!- Osaka [n=Alien@fl-71-3-67-165.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has quit ["leaving"] 08:00:15 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:01:26 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06fbd1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:30 good morning 08:02:11 -!- akamaus [n=maus@78.31.79.39] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:02:54 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:02:58 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 08:03:23 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:05:11 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@125.236.55.43] has joined #lisp 08:05:37 serichsen, good morning 08:08:37 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:08:56 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 08:14:08 bpr [n=user@cpe-72-231-172-136.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:14:43 timchen1a [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 08:15:11 so, i've poked around on c.l.l and such for a bit and couldn't find a good answer for how to represent infinity. It seemed like the answers were saying it's implementation dependent. If so, how does one do it with sbcl? 08:15:30 addled [n=adl@81.38.155.21] has joined #lisp 08:17:22 bpr: (apropos "infinity") 08:17:24 <_3b> bpr: (apropos :infinity :sb-ext) 08:17:37 ty 08:17:45 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit ["Am I missing an eyebrow?"] 08:18:12 -!- redb1ue [i=star@ppp139.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 08:18:53 <_3b> on ccl (and possibly a few other lisps) you can use something like 1e++0 to get an inifinity 08:19:08 haha, that was easy enough. I need to keep apropos in mind for the future 08:19:27 oh. thanks 08:20:33 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:21:31 luis, _8david: iirc you're on editor-hints-devel; I sent a mail there regarding our hyperdoc discussion 08:21:38 When I right-click on an object instance representation in the REPL, and choose inspect, what function is that calling? slime-inspect looks different. 08:22:15 iaindalton: You can use `C-h k' to find out the underlaying function 08:22:42 redblue [i=star@ppp037.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 08:22:48 I.e. C-h k, then do whatever you did before (pressing keys, clicking with mouse) 08:23:05 iaindalton: If you aim for the question if the context menu is extensible, yes it is, and it's extensible from within Common Lisp 08:23:10 tcr, I tried that, but it only told me what function mouse-3 calls 08:23:29 <_3b> well, look at that function and see what it calls :) 08:23:40 C-h k C-c C-v i 08:23:52 tcr: my aim is to be able to call that function without using the menu, not to add to the menu. 08:24:03 <_3b> (it seems to be slime-inspect-presentation-at-mouse ) 08:24:06 iaindalton: Ah yeah see stassats 08:24:19 C-c C-v i already lets you do that 08:24:29 I always found that extremely non-intuitive 08:24:30 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:24:35 C-c C-v is undefined, what should it be? 08:24:51 M-: (slime-changelog-date) 08:25:27 how old is your checkout? 08:25:42 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 08:25:54 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f756c74.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:12 *_8david* reads 08:26:16 <_8david> tcr: okay. I say whoever actually puts the work in to maintain something is also the person who gets to decide on the design! 08:26:17 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:26:25 2009-06-15; what's default with Ubuntu 9.10. 08:26:25 tcr: when setting up a remote swank server, can I ssh-tunnel through a port I already know is open (like 22?) 08:26:30 <_8david> Personally I'd have strongly preferred the magic function design over some sort of (weak) dependency, but as long as the "spurious fasl dependency bug" is fixed, I don't think that as a user I'm in any position to complain. 08:26:37 I have slime-inspect-presentation-at-mouse, but not slime-changelog-date 08:26:38 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:26:42 iaindalton: that's ancient 08:27:03 <_8david> (and, of course, I'm not even a real user at this point) 08:27:06 sykopomp: my guess is yes, but I'm not sure what exactly you mean 08:27:09 vng [n=user@115.74.152.84] has joined #lisp 08:27:38 I tried installing the one ELPA provides, but it didn't work automatically, and I didn't have a specific reason to upgrade 08:27:54 hello 08:28:30 _8david: Ok. 08:28:44 iaindalton: Checkout from cvs 08:28:45 tcr: I'm trying to set up a lisp on a remote server that's pretty heavily firewalled and that I don't have admin access to open ports in (with likelihood of opening them nearing 0). I'm trying to figure out how to set up an ssh tunnel for it, and I'm not sure what ports I'm actually able to use. 08:28:51 <_8david> tcr: One thing I'm not clear on: The manual says that as an IDE hacker all I need to do is to call out to LOOKUP. Now, that's not entirely accurate. After all, I first need to load hyperdoc. 08:28:58 <_3b> just to add another perspective to the earlier discussion about sources of documentation, it would be nice to be able to ask for links specifically even when there is a local copy, so it can be used for something like lisppaste colorize links 08:29:24 <_3b> sykopomp: only ssh needs to see the open port, the tunneled stuff only sees local ports 08:29:35 _8david: Yes, that's true. Although slime actually looks at :hyperdoc in *features* 08:29:50 _8david: and only if it's there it goes through hyperdoc, otherwise it defaults to hyperspec 08:29:53 _3b: alright. Guess I'll give it a shot >_> 08:29:53 <_8david> So what I'm seeing happening is that I'd start a slave lisp. At some point I'd load hyperdoc in order to call its functions. But I can't really be certain that the user code being introspected has been compiled at a point in time when hyperdoc was available in that Lisp, right? 08:30:18 <_3b> sykopomp: just make sure you tunnel a port > 1024 on each side and it should be OK 08:30:53 yeah, I'm not sure what ports are even open right now :\ 08:30:57 _8david: If they used :weakly-depends-on, their stuff should have been compiled wit hyperdoc if it's available on their machines 08:31:15 -!- addled [n=adl@81.38.155.21] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 08:31:15 BTW; where's a good place to report what looks like an information-losing type in the manual? 08:31:41 iaindalton: slime's manual? "information-losing type"? 08:31:50 typo, sorry about the typo ;-) 08:32:04 <_3b> sykopomp: 'open' shouldn't matter, as long as ssh can connect... that's half the point of tunneling :) 08:32:13 -!- spoofy [n=spoofy@78.31.74.25] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:32:19 iaindalton: slime-devel, anything concerning slime 08:32:23 iaindalton: first checkout from cvs, then modify doc/slime.texi, and send a diff to slime-devel 08:32:25 oh >_> 08:32:29 OK 08:33:01 and note that the manual at common-lisp.net/projects/slime is outdated 08:33:53 OK 08:35:12 actually, it's currently up to date 08:36:33 spoofy [n=spoofy@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 08:37:09 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 08:41:04 Good morning! 08:41:39 morning spiaggia 08:41:50 Hey vng. How are things going? 08:42:34 I've already moved to new house 08:43:02 So, I'm on lisp now 08:43:45 nhà em  a? 08:44:36 spiaggia: I've moved from district 9 to Thu Duc district 08:44:50 spiaggia: in HCM city 08:44:59 Yes, near the universit 08:45:00 district 9, that's where aliens live? 08:45:16 hihi 08:46:05 there's something about 9. a new movie w/ that name aiing now. 08:46:19 stassats: district 9 in HCM city, :D 08:47:11 tic: there were "district 9" movie and just "9" movie recently 08:47:23 Right. 08:48:49 stassats`: Ask me if you have any question what issue exactly the patches I sent to you address (e.g. for commit messages) 08:49:27 tcr: alright, but i haven't looked at them yet 08:50:17 pavelludiq [i=c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-nonwceipxyypbapt] has joined #lisp 08:51:34 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:52:02 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.138.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:52:27 I have 'app' is an application-pane, it invokes 'funtion-1' by :display-function. Is it possible to invoke 'function-1' when i press a button? 08:53:12 vng: Sure, you just have to know which arguments to pass it. 08:53:53 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:54:01 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 08:54:04 display functions take a frame and a pane, so the first argument should be *application-frame*. The second one you can obtain by doing (frame-pane-named *application-pane* 'name-of-pane) 08:54:12 clim frame-pane-named 08:54:12 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for frame-pane-named. 08:54:17 darn 08:54:44 clim find-pane-named 08:54:44 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/28-3.html#_1508 08:54:47 There. 08:54:47 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:55:22 spiaggia: thank you! 08:55:30 pleasure! 08:56:56 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Client Quit] 09:06:23 spiaggia: I'm taking your advice, and crossing my fingers that I don't get guillotined for it. 09:08:33 what advice was that? 09:09:44 spiaggia: If you'd like to use lisp for something, code first, ask later <_< 09:11:06 and say that you spent 3 man-years on it and rewriting it will cost millions 09:11:23 indeed 09:11:39 stassats`, ... with the qualifier "if you were to rewrite it in a non-Lisp language", of course. 09:12:20 They'll rewrite everything in C++ anyways :\ 09:12:24 they always do :( 09:12:27 any rewrite is non-chip 09:12:27 that, or python. 09:14:16 <_3b> ah, i guess the MochiAd examples crash flash/firefox too, so it isn't something i broke when i tried to use it from my code :/ 09:17:12 angel [n=angel@221.217.207.101] has joined #lisp 09:18:19 anybody give me an example with useing keyword in defmacro macro-lambda-list??? thanks alot 09:18:27 *_3b* tries upgrading flash 09:19:14 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:19:46 <_3b> angel: (defmacro foo (&key bar) bar) (foo :bar "baz") ? 09:20:04 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:20:27 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 09:21:30 <_3b> and new flash crashes too :/ 09:24:13 Reav_1 [n=Reav_1@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 09:25:02 sykopomp: in your first few weeks on your first job? 09:25:03 <_< 09:25:47 Ralith: hells yeah 09:26:26 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-190-136.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:26:40 when i combine the keywork &body and &key, it's error 09:26:58 <_3b> lisppaste: url 09:26:59 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 09:27:13 <_3b> angel: paste what you are trying at that link ^ 09:28:25 angel pasted "error macro key" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91806 09:30:07 <_3b> angel: your DOTIMES form looks confused, did you mean LOOP there? 09:30:33 -!- fatalnix is now known as firetruck 09:31:04 sorry, i typed wrong, it is loop 09:31:12 <_3b> angel: also, you usually want to separate out the &key and &body in a macro like that 09:31:29 <_3b> something like (defmacro repeat-count ((count &key ...) &body body) ...) 09:32:09 o, i will. but what happend this?? 09:32:13 <_3b> and call it with (repeat-count (2 :collect-=result t) ...) 09:32:33 and LOOP would be (loop repeat n ...) 09:32:36 <_3b> if you put them together, the keyword and argument will be included in the body arg 09:32:48 so, there's really no need to write your own macro 09:33:58 <_3b> right, it doesn't seem very useful even if it did work 09:34:20 do the &body will == (cdr macro-lambda-list)??? 09:35:07 no, whatever that means 09:35:25 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.65.24] has joined #lisp 09:36:13 it's menaing the keywork body will equ the macro-lambda-list exclude the first form 09:36:52 <_3b> &body will be anything left after processing required and optional arguments 09:37:47 i see, thank U _3b & stassats 09:37:57 angel: macro lambda lists can be arbitrarily nested, i.e. (repeat-count (3 :collect-result t) form1 form2) seems like better syntax 09:38:01 clhs &body 09:38:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_dd.htm 09:38:23 angel: for the above, you'd use (defmacro repeat-count ((count &key collect-result) &body body) ...) 09:39:22 thank you, i get it 09:39:57 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@125.236.55.43] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:41:04 -!- envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:42:02 jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-74-104.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:42:29 -!- shrughes [n=shrughes@c-76-118-176-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:43:45 -!- firetruck is now known as fatalnix 09:44:14 Is there a SLIME/SWANK channel? 09:44:51 it's here 09:45:41 Well, I'm trying to figure out how to use (sb-sys:serve-all-events 0) with swank:*communication-style* 09:45:50 Because... 09:46:04 with which communication-style? 09:46:16 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 09:46:18 <_3b> check the slime list, there seems to be a better way to do that 09:46:24 :fd-handler 09:46:25 <_3b> that was discussed recently 09:46:38 <_3b> sb-sys:serve-all-events seems to not work anymore :( 09:47:13 Ok. 09:47:23 <_3b> this thread: http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/slime-devel/2009-December/016996.html 09:48:09 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:48:09 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-145-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:48:09 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:48:09 -!- ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:48:09 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:48:09 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:48:09 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:48:09 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:48:09 -!- Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:48:10 jtza8: you're on windows, right? 09:49:01 Nope 09:49:14 stassats`: OS X 09:49:14 *_3b* suspects not, not many people use :fd-handler on sbcl/win 09:49:35 jtza8: why not use :spawn then? 09:49:49 <_3b> probably due to osx being annoying about threads 09:49:52 threads are flaky there 09:50:28 even for slime? 09:50:32 <_3b> particularly if you want to do GL stuff 09:52:33 I'll try sigio... 09:56:29 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Boot me gently"] 09:58:11 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.65.24] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:59:18 dek51 [n=eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has joined #lisp 09:59:41 longkid [n=lisp@113.22.192.225] has joined #lisp 10:00:01 beach: hello 10:00:49 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-145-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:10 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kntesocczuafffto] has joined #lisp 10:03:18 dek52 [n=eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has joined #lisp 10:03:28 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:03:28 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:03:28 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:03:28 -!- Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:03:28 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-145-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:03:28 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:03:28 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:03:28 -!- ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:03:28 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:03:28 -!- dek51 [n=eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 10:03:30 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 10:04:07 hello longkid I am here. 10:04:27 sykopomp: Ah, very good! 10:04:37 -!- angel [n=angel@221.217.207.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:04:54 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:05:19 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 10:05:49 spiaggia: can i call you beach, b/c i feel hard to type spiaggia 10:06:04 longkid: Sure. 10:06:34 beach: how are you today? 10:06:45 Fine! What about yourself? 10:07:04 longkid: But if you use ERC, there is completion. "spi" should do it. 10:07:40 spiaggia: OK. I've done 10:08:06 spiaggia: I'm OK. I've just started the first week with AA 10:08:33 who is teaching that? 10:08:48 spiaggia: Prof. Anne Dicky 10:08:59 Ah, tell her hello from me. 10:09:11 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has left #lisp 10:09:15 spiaggia: she's so nice and kind. OK, i'll tell her. 10:09:21 morning 10:09:28 hello Xof 10:09:51 spiaggia: i wanna ask you something 10:10:26 Go right ahead. 10:11:23 spiaggia: if i want to use bitvector, what keywork do i have to use to create a bitvector? 10:12:50 geekles [n=smh@CPE-65-27-73-151.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:13:07 longkid: (make-array size :element-type 'bit) 10:13:51 spiaggia: all right. and with that way, i can use it as a normal array. Right? 10:14:19 -!- dek5 [n=eugene@mail.quickpay.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:15:00 Yes 10:15:43 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 10:15:57 <_3b> just be careful with large bitvectors, since they ignore *print-length* unlike most arrays 10:16:29 _3b: Good to know. His are going to be roughly 9 elements long :) 10:16:54 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:17:01 <_3b> that shouldn't be a problem then :) 10:17:14 spiaggia: for ex., can i use (setf (aref bit-vec i) 1) to assign value for one element? 10:17:31 Yes. 10:17:39 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:18:05 spiaggia: so simple. i'll use it. 10:18:18 longkid: And a bitvector is a vector which is a sequence, so you can use the functions in the sequence chapter such as position, count, etc. 10:18:26 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 10:18:26 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 10:18:26 ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 10:18:26 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:26 Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 10:18:26 joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 10:18:26 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 10:18:26 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:01 marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has joined #lisp 10:19:20 spiaggia: how's about (count 1 bit-vec)? 10:19:52 That should work. Try it out. 10:20:52 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1"] 10:21:02 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 10:22:30 spiaggia: and about the concept of a 'unit', how can i implement it? 10:23:01 spiaggia: i mean that do we need to create a structure or something else? 10:26:44 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:28:33 longkid: I would create a class, and I would make that class contain a vector of cells. 10:29:52 YuleAthas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 10:30:34 Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-206-89.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:38 spiaggia: can you create a sample class? and we'll implement it 10:31:08 I don't understand your question. 10:31:39 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:32:49 spiaggia: b/c we plan to code without using OOP. So I can't imagine which classes we should define 10:33:57 spiaggia: after we finish it, we'll define classes basing on our program 10:34:36 Why would you code without OO? 10:36:01 b/c currently, Bien know a little of OOP in lisp, but i do not 10:36:27 so i'm afraid to waste time on investigating OOP in lisp 10:37:08 You have to learn at some point. That's not a waste of time. 10:37:43 But you can just do (defclass unit () ((cells :initarg :cells :reader cells))) 10:38:06 and then (make-instance 'unit :cells (make-array size)) 10:39:06 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 10:39:15 well, with our current program, we just add definition of 'unit' class. Right? 10:41:33 longkid: Sure, but that won't be enough though. I suggest you create a class `board' that contains the array, and also a list (or an array) of units. 10:41:34 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 10:41:48 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:54 sadiquea1 [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has joined #lisp 10:43:08 spiaggia: a 'board' contains the array of units or the array of cells? 10:43:20 yes 10:43:36 I installed the latest SLIME from CVS, and followed the README, but, unlike the Ubuntu package I was using, I don't get a REPL, only an *inferior-lisp* buffer. How can I start one? 10:43:40 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:44:01 you need to setup slime with the slime-repl contrib 10:44:28 something like (slime-setup '(slime-repl)) in your ~/.emacs 10:44:31 spiaggia: but i think a 'board' contains the array of cells, why should it contain the array of units? 10:44:32 you may want other contribs too 10:44:34 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:44:34 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:44:34 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:44:34 -!- Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:44:34 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:44:34 -!- ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:44:34 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:46:19 longkid: Because the strategies are going to take a unit as an argument. 10:46:32 Xof: it worked. What are contribs and what else should I consider? 10:46:59 Axius [n=ade@92.82.75.172] has joined #lisp 10:47:03 contribs are things that are not part of the core of SLIME, which the maintainer intends to make such that using it feels like programming elisp 10:47:16 they live in the contrib/ directory of the source code, and are activated individually 10:49:08 Ah; OK. Yes, now I notice some other things missing compared to the Ubuntu version. I'll do the appropriate RTFMing. 10:50:02 spiaggia: so, a 'board' would contain a set of units. But, each unit appears in which shape: row, column or a small square? 10:51:15 -!- snearch_ [n=olaf@e179133155.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:51:20 -!- pavelludiq [i=c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-nonwceipxyypbapt] has quit ["Page closed"] 10:51:31 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-107-60.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:53:00 davazp [n=user@16.Red-83-57-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:37 longkid: It doesn't matter what shape it is. That's the point. The strategies should deal only with units, and a unit just contains an array of cells. 10:53:58 longkid: When you create the board, for each row, column, and small square, create a unit. 10:55:08 longkid: The reason I want you to do this is so that the strategies won't need to have the same code three times, once for a column, once for a row, and once for a small square. 10:55:16 ianmcorvidae, you pretty much want all of slime-fancy (which should be the default to spare headaches for the casual users like you, but bringing that up usually just ends up in flames) 10:55:45 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 10:55:45 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 10:55:45 ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 10:55:45 Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 10:55:45 joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 10:55:45 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 10:55:45 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:59 attila_lendvai: ppl call me that a lot ;-) I copied the appropriate line from the Ubuntu package. 10:57:06 iaindalton, there's nothing wrong with that... 10:57:50 I am, however, reading descriptions of the packages. I'm a novice user, but I may find something interesting anyway. 10:59:38 -!- vng [n=user@115.74.152.84] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:00:15 spiaggia: do i need to modify 'shuffle-board' function? This func is used to create a solved board 11:00:53 longkid: I don't think so. You create the units after the board has been shuffled. 11:02:21 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-19-244.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:03:07 now I'm curious, is there a pdf of this assignment? 11:03:24 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.75.172] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:04:08 spiaggia: ah, well. after shuffling the board, i'll create a 'board' instance with a set of cells and also a set of units 11:04:17 spiaggia: right? 11:05:15 -!- roidrage [n=roidrage@80.187.210.13] has quit [] 11:07:31 right. 11:08:53 spiaggia: and when i want to solve a partial board, i'll create a 'board' instance containing a set of units 11:08:59 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:08:59 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:08:59 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:08:59 -!- Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:08:59 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:08:59 -!- ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:08:59 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:09:44 Yes, and then you pass those units to the strategy functions. 11:09:55 spiaggia: in each case, those units will appear in some shape 11:10:59 Yes, a unit will either contain the cells of a row, the cells of a column or the cells of a small square, but the strategies don't care about the shape. 11:11:26 Hmm... seems I can't set SWANK:*COMMUNICATION-STYLE* to :sigio in .swank.lisp. When I start slime in emacs I start in the slime package and (SWANK-BACKEND:PREFERRED-COMMUNICATION-STYLE) returns :spawn. 11:13:29 Any ideas why I start in the SWANK package? 11:14:22 spiaggia: i see. Of course, i just create a 'board' instance with a set of units, and depending on exact use, those units will appear in some shape. 11:14:36 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32E0F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:00 spiaggia: and i pass that 'board' with those units as argument of strategy func 11:15:21 SLIME's fancy inspector has buttons and other elements that highlight when I mouse over them, but I can't seem to do anything with them. How does it work? 11:16:38 longkid: Not quite, but you have the right idea. I think a strategy function should work on a single unit. Applying those strategy functions would be the work of the solver algorithm. 11:17:25 longkid: That way you have a solver function that doesn't care what strategies you use, and the exact set of strategies used will determine the level of difficulty. 11:20:02 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:20:29 spiaggia: can you tell me about the function of strategy function? 11:21:20 spiaggia: i just want to know if my idea is the same to you 11:21:37 longkid: A strategy function takes a unit, and if possible applies the stragegy. If the strategy applies then the possible symbols of at least one cell in the unit will be fewer than before. 11:22:38 longkid: So for instance, for strategy 1 (if I remember correctly), it checks if there is a symbol that exists only in one of the cells, and then removes all the other possible symbols from that cell. 11:22:55 (unless of course that cell contains a single possible symbol) 11:25:06 spiaggia: well, so i think my idea is same to yours 11:25:26 spiaggia: you're correct. that's the 1st strategy 11:25:53 iaindalton: what doesn't work? 11:26:01 -!- luis``` is now known as luis` 11:27:32 longkid: And if you do it so that the strategy function returns a list of the cells that were modified, you can then check what units those cells are part of, because then some more strategies could be applied to those units. 11:27:32 luis`: I expect since interface elements highlight when I roll over them, I should be able to interact with them, for example, to modify the value of a slot. 11:29:14 *jtza8* notes his ~/.swank.lisp file doesn't get loaded when he loads SWANK in an SBCL REPL because swank:*communication-style* is set to :spawn but should be :sigio. 11:29:31 nunb [n=nundan@94.161.165.83] has joined #lisp 11:30:09 -!- nunb [n=nundan@94.161.165.83] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:31:53 spiaggia: what do we base on to check what units those cells are part of? 11:32:48 longkid: I suggest each cell contains a list of the units it is part of. 11:34:12 spiaggia: ah, so i'll create a 'cell' class beside 'unit' and 'board' class. Right? 11:34:14 jdz_ [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 11:34:28 Right 11:35:13 spiaggia: OK. I think that's enough for today's discussion. 11:36:11 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:36:16 spiaggia: firstly, i'll define the classes as you suggest. And I'll show them. 11:37:42 Sounds good. 11:39:26 after that you check those class definitions, Bien and I will code the strategy function. 11:39:57 OK 11:40:31 See also my mail from October 29 11:42:18 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 11:42:18 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 11:42:18 ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 11:42:18 Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 11:42:18 joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 11:42:18 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 11:42:18 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:39 spiaggia: is that mail about? 11:43:26 iaindalton: you have to either click with the middle button or place the cursor there and press enter. 11:43:34 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:43:34 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 11:43:36 longkid: It contains those class definitions. Do you still have it? 11:45:06 spiaggia: i've just checked, but i don't see any email on that Oct 29 about that. 11:45:49 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:47:23 OK, I'll send it again. 11:48:50 spiaggia: OK. Thanks a lot :) 11:49:16 mail sent 11:49:57 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:51:28 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kntesocczuafffto] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:51:57 spiaggia: in fact, we haven't received any mail like that. So strange! 11:53:32 Well, I receiced it myself from the mailing list, so it got to the list. 11:54:07 *attila_lendvai* gets reminded about his groan when realized that it's not the left button that needs to be used in the inspector... 11:54:44 konr [n=konrad@201.82.138.201] has joined #lisp 11:54:44 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:55:19 spiaggia: i'll refer to your mail, and ask you if there is something unclear 11:55:21 ...and then to how i've changed it in my branch so that even the forward/backward buttons of my mouse work as in the browser... 11:55:56 longkid: OK. 11:57:59 spiaggia: these days i spent time for studying AA, so i don't have much time for our project. So, our output may be late. 11:59:26 Sure. 11:59:47 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:02:59 spiaggia: i hope you sympathize with us. OK, I have dinner now. 12:03:53 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-232-46.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:19 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:04:19 longkid: Sure, have a good meal! 12:04:23 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:42 spiaggia: Thanks. See ya later. 12:07:18 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.65.24] has joined #lisp 12:08:33 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:10:02 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:21 -!- longkid [n=lisp@113.22.192.225] has left #lisp 12:13:46 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 12:18:13 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:24:39 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Boot me gently"] 12:24:50 -!- ineiros [n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:26:18 hmm, clbuild fails to install cffi and bordeaux-treads for me. Does that happen to someone else? 12:26:21 -!- aurele [n=aurele@unaffiliated/aurele] has left #lisp 12:27:57 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:29:30 <_3b> spiaggia: worked last time i tried, how does it fail? 12:29:55 404 12:30:21 nunb [n=nundan@94.161.165.83] has joined #lisp 12:30:53 <_3b> strange, have you updated clbuild recently? 12:31:05 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 12:31:08 Yes, 10 minutes ago :) 12:31:39 <_3b> both look like they should be OK from looking in the clbuild repo 12:31:52 <_3b> does it say what it was trying to download? 12:32:30 Actually it says libcurl: HTTP Error (404?) 12:33:02 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 12:33:15 *_3b* will try a fresh checkout and see if it works 12:34:16 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:36:03 <_3b> seems to have worked 12:36:08 hmm 12:36:29 <_3b> ' darcs get http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/clbuild' and './clbuild install cffi bordeaux-threads' 12:36:31 Thanks! 12:36:36 Well, seems I got swank:*communication-style* set to :sigio, and it works now, but I still end up in the SWANK package when I start the SLIME REPL. 12:37:06 Would that qualify as a potential bug? 12:39:08 _3b: It works on my laptop but not on my desktop! Weird! 12:40:06 brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:40:27 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:41:46 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 12:42:25 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:43:51 <_deepfire> I wonder if LWN will run an article on Google CEO's recent 'interesting' statement about user privacy. 12:44:03 <_3b> spiaggia: different darcs versins maybe? 12:44:40 _3b: Ah, that's possible. 12:45:56 it says it's the latest version. I might have to upgrade Ubuntu on this machine. 12:47:15 *_3b* has darcs 2.2.0 on ubuntu 9.04 12:47:23 ineiros [n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 12:50:17 1.0.9rc1 :( 12:52:50 OK, stumpwm now uses the windows key instead of C-t. Great since xchat uses C-t. 12:53:30 thanks adlai for pointing me to set-prefix-key 12:55:14 sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has joined #lisp 12:55:16 -!- sadiquea1 [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:55:47 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has joined #lisp 12:56:12 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 12:56:27 I now need to write extensions to allow the desktop to restore the desktop as I left it 12:57:08 (stumpwm is the only CL window manager) 12:59:25 arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has joined #lisp 12:59:25 -!- arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:00:35 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:01:13 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:03:38 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has joined #lisp 13:03:49 hello 13:07:45 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-101-205.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:35 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:12:15 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:13:15 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:13:25 good afternoon 13:15:19 hi mvilleneuve 13:17:03 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@96.52.239.77] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:21:18 KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:29 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-99-19.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:22:02 Does anyone here use StumpWM? 13:23:40 yes 13:24:38 -!- geekles [n=smh@CPE-65-27-73-151.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:25:07 Thanks for the advice last night. I now have windows key working. 13:26:24 Now I need to save and restore programs when I reboot. To the same tiles. You can save the layout, but not the programs in it. 13:29:25 This has prooven tricky. Any advice? 13:29:48 You could stop rebooting ... 13:30:15 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:30:28 Zhivago, duh 13:30:29 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:31:12 It was a serious suggestion. 13:31:21 Younder: Why are you rebooting? 13:31:37 If continuity matters greatly then just running in a virtual machine and restoring that might be simplest. 13:32:11 I shut my machine down every time I am not using it for 2+ hrs. s2disk saves all restoring of everything. 13:32:35 I have 3 different configurations a ubuntu standard, a stumpwm and a windows media center config. 13:32:53 So, why not run those in vmware or whatever? 13:33:18 You mean vine? 13:33:38 Whatever does the job. 13:34:03 because it doesn't always work.. 13:34:18 Well, then use one that does. 13:34:22 xen or whatever. 13:34:28 sigh 13:34:29 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:34:32 jtza8: hmm, i haven't gotten ~/.swank.lisp to load either 13:34:43 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:34:45 Younder: s2disk would solve that too. 13:34:52 Younder: just have each of the two linux boots s2disk. it's all good. 13:35:14 schme, I'll look into it 13:35:20 (: 13:35:33 Younder: and ya. virtual machines is seldom an option for running windows (: 13:35:43 i'm on oldish sbcl and SLIME though, portage dösn't have very new stuff 13:36:46 -!- sadiquea [n=sadiquea@119.82.102.202] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:36:55 Xantoz: get a new sbcl and SLIME (: 13:37:13 schme: would you use clbuild for that? 13:37:20 Xantoz: I would, yes. 13:37:36 Xantoz: I tend to use clbuild for everything lisp related. 13:37:47 i've tried the overlay, but things have previously broken when i attemted using that 13:37:58 overlay? 13:38:02 portage overlay 13:38:05 gentoo thing 13:38:07 I don't know what a portage is. 13:38:08 ok. 13:38:20 so just screw your gentoo system. uninstall everything lisp related, and use clbuild. 13:38:32 probably so, seems better 13:38:50 at least for things lisp related, although I usually prefer letting my package manager handle stuff 13:38:51 Xantoz: use the overlay and come to #gentoo-lisp if there are problems 13:39:09 fe[nl]ix: maybe so 13:39:13 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:39:19 I have cutting edge slime and sbcl through clbuild 13:39:27 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:39:31 hmm, have to make a choice i guess 13:39:35 style question -- is it ok to put a bunch of stuff on one line just because it fits, eg (dolist (line lines) (frobnicate line)) 13:39:55 or better to indent the body at least 13:40:11 jmbr [n=jmbr@224.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:40:17 isomer: Doesn't really matter imo. You can see if stuff after it is part of the body or not anyway. 13:40:18 just make sure you note it's final location, and leave a 'standard' build just in case 13:40:35 *schme* likes to take a step back from the screen and make sure the code looks pretty. 13:40:50 -!- msingh [n=msingh@203.171.123.8.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 13:40:54 schme: thanks. me too, but i'm not all that experienced with lisp formatting yet 13:41:53 TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:03 isomer: I meant not from a lisp point of view, but from a more eeeh.. what's the word.. artsy sense. 13:42:18 isomer: You need to step far enough back so you can't actually make out the letters. or it won't work. 13:42:25 ah 13:42:45 make sure you are a member of the dev_ mailing list's so you dont update when the version control is unstable 13:42:52 i just want the structure to be apparent from the indenting. not sure what the conventions are for short examples like the one i posted 13:43:16 isomer: But if you (dolist (..) ...) then the stuff after this line will get indented correctly anyway, won't it? 13:43:35 blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 13:43:43 yes it will, but you can't easily scan and see the body. that was really my question 13:43:56 Hmm.. 13:44:09 I guess maybe depends on how important the body is, how obvious what is going on is etc. 13:44:11 version control version.. quite a mouthfull 13:45:45 isomer: I never can seem to fit anything on one line. 80 chars is so lil'! 13:46:26 schme, me neither. I use 132 or so 13:46:31 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:00 schme, don't wotty about it most peaple have a 22' W or so now so they will just extend the emacs size 13:49:21 worry 13:50:21 Younder: I don't worry. I have 1920 display, but I like 3 buffers next to each others so I can fit more code. 13:50:39 follow-mode \o/ 13:50:41 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 13:51:44 schme, settle for 2 and use more virtual displayes 13:52:03 schme, I use 4 13:53:29 schme, all you need is a emacs and a HTMl browser 13:55:25 Younder: But on more virtual displays you don't see all at the same time 13:55:56 Younder: I mean I run my emacs window full screen, but I give it 3 vertical splits. So I can see more lines of code at one time. 13:56:12 and view the same source in all the buffers. 13:56:52 schme, well I'd selltle for one 13:57:07 right. 13:57:15 then I can't see as many LOC 13:57:51 It's like 80 LOC vs 240 LOC or some such. 13:58:02 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.65.24] has left #lisp 13:59:18 well I like my browser next to my editor. and occasionally I exchange emacs for a shell 13:59:36 stumpwm allows me to do that 13:59:40 moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-171-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:22 and I have a seperate group for mail, news and chat 14:02:06 A group in stumpWM is a virtual screen. 14:03:10 crod [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:07 well, XMonad.Contrib includes tagging system, I suspect similar stuff can be done for StumpWM 14:04:33 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:05:25 I also prefer mc to a standard shell 14:06:24 midnight commander is cool 14:08:35 C-o and you have your standard shell, C-o again and you have mc 14:09:01 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:58 Younder: unless MC breaks down on you (happens often to me, I avoid using it for copying files for a reason...) 14:10:13 also, I found YTree to be quite nice for freeing disk space 14:10:17 Hmm, I found it incredibly annoying, but that's individual differences for you. 14:10:57 Hmm...I wonder if arch linux is good or not. Thinking of trying it. 14:12:03 I use three screens :3 14:12:40 so i usually put my code in the middle and the repl/shell(for c, and such)/whatever on the rightmost-screen 14:12:50 and browser/docs on the leftmost 14:18:48 TDT: Arch is quite good, but I recommend to learn how to use PKGBUILDs, since it's a binary distro and you might not like some deps 14:18:58 (like the default uim package... oh god...) 14:19:05 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 14:19:34 p_l: k thanks, I'll check up on that. Using ubuntu right now, heard good things about arch though. 14:20:06 Younder: I have my browser in emacs. 14:20:27 Younder: pretty much any wm allows you to have virtual desktops 14:21:00 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 14:22:11 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:22:21 schme, except windows (unless I'm missing something) 14:22:40 TDT: unfortunately certain deps can't go away. I also recommend yaourt as frontend for pacman (there is no good GUI frontend since shaman added certain deps...) 14:23:47 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:25:57 p_l: yeah, read a bit about the file you were talking about - if the dependency issue isn't super horrible, I may not worry too much about editing it. 14:26:50 I keep my .emacs minialistic auctex and slime and nxml. That's about it 14:26:56 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:27:40 and no menues, no toolbars, no fridges 14:27:48 heh, I need to work on minimizing my .emacs file...it's huge right now. I load way too much, just out of preference to have one that can be used at work and at home. 14:29:08 TDT: how's that a problem? It's not like you start a new instance every day. 14:29:34 pkhuong: that's true, but keeping things up to date is a pain in the butt at times. 14:31:24 *p_l* instead of minimizing .emacs switched to emacs --daemon 14:31:38 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 14:32:52 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:33:12 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 14:35:22 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:05 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:14 Hello all. 14:36:20 hi nyef 14:36:32 alsa pulse adio is a distracion you don't need 14:36:43 *nyef* notes that copying 50 gigs over usb takes a while. 14:38:55 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp037.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:40:03 mathrick [n=mathrick@dlink214.imada.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 14:41:21 Xach, I'm discussing the StumpWM philosophy. (setup) 14:43:13 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 14:44:10 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:46:30 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 14:47:15 nyef: I recommend FireWire for such jobs :D 14:47:55 e-sata maybe 14:47:56 I'm not even sure I have a firewire -port-, let alone drives. 14:48:18 1394 is dead on PCs 14:48:52 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:49:14 Nope. Modem, three USB, one 100Base-T, VGA, S-Video, memory-card, wierd half-width pc-card slot, and the mystery "port 3". 14:49:25 No firewire. 14:49:33 attila_lendvai__ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:50:02 firewire only works on some macs. 14:50:18 nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:22 consumer technology adoption always was a con game. 14:50:30 -!- attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:50:47 for the rest of us there is USB2 (about 500 Mb/s) 14:50:59 nyef: i assume no esata 14:51:30 *nyef* isn't even sure what esata is, but knows that there's no port for it on the external drives he's using. 14:51:30 its transfer would beat any of those pretenders, USB/firewire, hehe 14:51:35 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:51:41 its the external version of sata 14:51:54 the drive connection standard 14:52:00 replaces IDE 14:52:08 Sortof like iSCSI? 14:52:21 Guthur, SATA is 3 Gb/s the equivalent would be infiniband 14:52:58 I think the part that really annoys me is that I'm using dd, and thus get -no- completion time estimate. 14:53:06 third gen sata is suppose to be 6Gb 14:53:15 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@224.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:53:35 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 14:53:46 Axius [n=ade@92.85.20.42] has joined #lisp 14:53:54 jmbr [n=jmbr@17.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:54:03 So, anyone know how to shrink a jfs partition? 14:54:09 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:20 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:54:32 Or is this a case where I screwed myself over a couple years ago and need to move to ext3 anyway? 14:55:46 get a backup drive? 14:56:49 I've already blown my hardware budget for this month. 14:57:00 Younder: USB2 in practice is much below 500Mb/s 14:57:02 (Well, not really, but I don't want to spend more money on this.) 14:57:43 p_l, if you consider 480 Mb/s much below 14:58:42 ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:25 nyef, it's bad time of the year I know but if you reformat your drive you need a backup, and USB backup drives are cheap 15:00:16 Okay, so this is a roundabout way of saying "no, you should have used ext3 in the first place"? 15:00:28 Younder: various protocol related overheads dumb it down 15:00:41 Younder: Yes, windows (atleast xp) allows dem virtual desktops 15:00:52 nyef: e-SATA is a ruggedized port for putting SATA outside case 15:01:06 p_l: Okay, definately don't have one of those. 15:01:32 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:01:52 Younder: FireWire-400 (the most popular) pulls near 400MBit without problem, USB2 often will drop fast to ~100 or lower 15:01:56 Heh. "There's one that doesn't work at all: FFI to another language's GUI package." 15:02:05 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:02:35 nyef: iSCSI is SCSI-over-IP 15:02:40 btw ;-) 15:02:50 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host18.190-231-56.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:03:01 p_l: Yeah, I figured that much. I therefore have -two- iSCSI ports: The wireless card and the 100Base-T port. 15:03:23 Younder: also, FireWire supports all SCSI devices with rather simple SCSI-IEEE1394 bridges 15:04:02 actually, firewire disk drives are SCSI ;-) 15:04:04 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:04:22 grumps [n=grumps@adsl-69-209-65-52.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:33 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:04:57 *p_l* would like to have SAS drives... 15:06:18 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.85.20.42] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:06:32 p_l, firewire can pull 800 b/s 15:06:41 Mn 15:07:02 p_l, firewire can pull 800 Mb/s.. 15:08:04 p_l, the most popular bit dates 5 years back in time 15:08:05 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:11:03 Younder: FireWire can actually pull 1600MBit/s by published specs, you just don't usually see those everywhere :D 15:11:22 if not more 15:11:41 I recomend infiniband 15:11:44 you can easily send it over faster links, I guess, unless you hit problems like FC10 and previous versions 15:12:24 Younder: haha. Infiniband is actually quite similar if I recall correctly. It has native RDMA mode, right? 15:12:25 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-30-170.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:12:43 P_l: right 15:12:57 and firewire started out as system bus, iirc 15:14:24 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-77-219.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:15:48 P_l: right, infiniband is usually used by supercomputers so firewire has more hardware compatabillity 15:16:57 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host251.190-30-67.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:17:07 P_l: though 1 GB ethether net should be adequare in most cases 15:17:21 ethernet 15:18:39 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:20:14 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-107-60.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 15:21:09 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 15:21:12 Younder: i have firewire, on my sound card... 15:22:19 Younder: pity that Apple played patent troll on firewire 15:22:34 p_l, yes 15:23:05 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:23:33 from what i've heard FireWire has got som form of DMA while USB dösn't 15:24:21 so the processor dös som heavy lifting with USB drives 15:24:52 Xantoz: because USB started out as something on the level of simple, low-performance polled devices, while FireWire is basically a non-routable (though you might, if you're mad engineer) Remote DMA network optimized for high throughput 15:25:23 ah 15:26:16 seems my ugly hack of irssi-script is interfering with my english... (I don't use swedish layout for my keyboards, it makes programming tedious) 15:26:18 Xantoz: so for example disk drives in firewire are actually implemented by serial connection protocol on top of firewire that encapsulates SCSI 15:26:37 and you have full DMA support both ways 15:26:56 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.213.238] has joined #lisp 15:26:58 ah, cool 15:27:23 gotta look more ino firewire.. 15:27:41 <_deepfire> So, what's the canonical method of skipping #. when *read-eval* is nil? 15:28:37 _deepfire, there is no canonicalmethod 15:28:50 <_deepfire> Younder, please go away 15:29:03 Younder: also, firewire is used inside F-22 :D 15:29:13 ? 15:29:37 deepfire: Um, well, you read the following expression and return nil instead, iirc. 15:29:43 Younder: F-22 team removed the MIL-STD mandated system bus and replaced it with firewire, iirc 15:29:52 I'm sure some nice fellow has written it down somewhere authoritative. 15:30:05 milanj [n=milan@109.93.202.3] has joined #lisp 15:30:09 phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:11 P_l: ahh milnet 15:30:31 <_deepfire> Zhivago, basically, two read-char's followed by read? 15:30:33 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has joined #lisp 15:30:55 -!- crod is now known as c|mell 15:30:59 Younder: I don't think it has much connection to milnet ;-) 15:31:28 <_deepfire> This looks like it belongs to a library. 15:32:03 deepfire: Um, well, normally # does dispatch, so ... 15:32:38 <_deepfire> Oh, I can override the #. reader function. 15:33:16 <_deepfire> I already begun to think of the hard way -- handling the reader condition by reading the thing manually. 15:33:17 Yes, if that's what you mean to do -- you can also copy the readtable to make it a non-global change. 15:33:25 <_deepfire> Zhivago, sure 15:35:22 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-98-204-67-114.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:31 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:37:35 emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:52 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:38:05 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 15:38:47 mcspiff` [n=user@142.68.158.161] has joined #lisp 15:41:43 -!- emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:44:46 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit ["reboot"] 15:47:03 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.65.24] has joined #lisp 15:47:15 akamaus [n=maus@78.31.79.39] has joined #lisp 15:48:56 -!- ASau [n=user@host179-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 15:51:14 emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:43 Tordek [n=tordek@186.124.139.17] has joined #lisp 15:53:02 could someone please tell me how to set slime's default directory at startup? 15:53:13 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:53:23 By "default directory", you mean...? 15:54:08 for example, when I open a source file I would like it to look in a particular deirectory by default 15:54:14 (The most likely explanation is to start slime when the "current directory" of the buffer associated with the currently-active emacs window is the one you want.) 15:54:41 right 15:54:48 emacsphan: C-c ~ iirc. 15:55:39 Xach: could you please give me the name of the function bound to those keys? 15:55:56 emacsphan: C-h k C-c ~ 15:56:00 slime-sync-package-and-default-directory 15:56:06 thanks 15:56:32 (Honestly, emacs has a function that tells you the binding for a given key sequence.) 15:56:35 I've also noticed that there is a slime-cd command... not sure how to use it 15:56:52 sorry, I have rebound most things 15:58:11 thanks for the help! 16:00:45 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:17 -!- Reav_1 [n=Reav_1@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~"] 16:01:31 dnolen 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16:38:27 redblue [n=star@ppp155.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:39:42 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-zdkqcoyyrmqhlqpk] has joined #lisp 16:40:08 Hi Ijust needed suggestion on a lisp implementation to be used. After wroking on lisp i will be working on tools such as "tree to graph conversion tool" etc ., 16:40:50 SBCL is popular. 16:41:23 *Xach* likes SBCL on Linux very much 16:41:28 tic: thanks ... I just wanted to know why/how are ecrtain implementations better. 16:41:50 Xach: My dev platform is windows. 16:42:16 -!- Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:42:20 :) 16:42:42 try lispworks (is a commercial one). 16:43:27 Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 16:43:30 moah: I am a *poor* hobbiest would prefer something on the lines of freeware/opensource :) 16:43:49 lispworks is kinda free for personal use. 16:44:10 with some heap limit or some such no? 16:44:30 yes, and with save limitations, no itit files, and so on. 16:44:35 keepguessing_: just pick one of the free ones (: 16:44:39 but... it has a gui toolkit. 16:44:46 Ah thanks :) 16:44:52 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [No route to host] 16:45:01 moah: u mean ability to build windows forms?? 16:45:24 konr [n=konrad@201.82.138.201] has joined #lisp 16:45:43 if by "forms" you mean windows gui apps, then yes. 16:45:46 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:46:18 i c... hmmm ... that was not a priority but it is surely and advantage ... thanks 16:46:32 keepguessing_: I don't think you can do any forms stuff with lispworks. IIRC forms is some .Net thing? 16:46:32 Does not SBCL support it?? 16:47:16 I mean windows GUI apps as moah was suggesting ... 16:47:31 oh 16:47:38 basically no lisp implementation supports modern guis in a way more popular languages do... 16:47:49 There are supposedly gtk and qt bindings. 16:47:58 and tk, yes. 16:48:09 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:17 but they are more one-man-projects in an unfinished state. 16:48:29 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-118-235.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:49:06 *schme* thinks C# or F# are the bestest for crossplatform GUI. or maybe java. 16:49:07 moah: CAPI seems modern to me. Do you think it qualifies? 16:49:18 basically I would not count a gui as "supported" unless a distribution ships it as default. 16:49:27 capi is the lispworks gui. 16:49:28 Xach, no, not free... 16:49:37 You must be suffering from a head injury. 16:49:48 What popular languages ship with a gui as default? 16:50:06 I agree that it's not free, but moah didn't qualify it that way... 16:50:07 Python, Java and probably Ruby. 16:50:12 -!- mcspiff` [n=user@142.68.158.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:50:15 mcspiff` [n=user@142.68.158.161] has joined #lisp 16:50:28 Xach, I know. I assumed it was an implicit requirement. Which might make sense, depending on your setting. 16:50:38 i c... I just went through the lispworks personal edition it has 5 hr session limit. + plus some heap limit ... 16:50:44 xach, in my view the problem isnt that its not free but that its lispworks only. 16:51:07 keepguessing_: there's also allegro that maybe has some gui builder. but it also has some limiting thingamabob. 16:51:10 should be more than enough for learning, keepguessing_ 16:51:15 also for me windows GUI is not a priority or a necessity ... 16:51:38 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:51:43 keepguessing_: lisp is a shit choice for GUI apps, unless you happen to be on loonix and like banging your head against mcclim :) 16:52:25 yes, its too bad the state of lisp gui is so sad. 16:52:31 moah: What's the problem with that? 16:52:33 schme: Please be assured I was never intending to build GUI apps with lisp. 16:52:38 keepguessing_: I have the impression that clisp is a popular choice for windows. But I guess sbcl or ccl would also work just well. 16:52:50 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:53:01 xach, i kinda implied "free". 16:53:05 hmm .. why is SBCL not preferred on windows?? 16:53:22 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:38 keepguessing_: Threads. 16:53:43 keepguessing_: It is not as complete or stable on Windows as it is on Linux. Nobody is currently working on improving SBCL's Windows implementation. 16:53:52 Of course, CLISP has the same issue, wrt threads. 16:54:05 At least SBCL tries. 16:54:05 ah ... 16:54:09 keepguessing_: I've heard some people report that it works acceptably well for some tasks, though. 16:54:13 Does not the clisp threads work on windows? 16:54:22 -!- Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:54:25 as I've read (but havent used it), Clozure seems to be the free lisp of choice for windows. 16:54:53 moah: I would support that statement, but as I work for Clozure, I'm not exactly unbiased ;) 16:55:05 sellout: clisp has threads since at least January 16:55:06 madsy [n=madsy@ti0207a340-1311.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:55:19 -!- madsy is now known as Madsy 16:55:20 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:55:36 abcl has threads on windows 16:55:38 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:55:40 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:54 fe[nl]ix: Really? Wow. Did anyone add CLISP support to b-t? 16:56:13 sellout: check the commit log 16:56:24 keepguessing_: I think that for learning lisp you can pick anyone. It will mosty likely work. Maybe if you're planning to get production ready stuff you need to look more into things :) 16:57:27 sellout: Tue Jan 27 03:33:33 CET 2009 Stelian Ionescu Add Clisp support. 16:57:38 fe[nl]ix: I figured it was you ;) 16:57:53 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:58:29 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 16:58:45 sellout: perhaps I should publicize this. you're not the first one to be surprised 17:00:36 schme: GUI on OS X/CCL is pretty nice, if you ask me. Maybe on Windows in the not too distant future, as well .. 17:01:11 sellout: that is good news. 17:01:23 You can even use GUIs built with Interface Builder 17:01:26 sellout, is that gui absed on some unixy toolkit or is it osx only? 17:01:30 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:40 moah: It's Cocoa. 17:01:45 ok. 17:02:01 moah: CCL has a very nice Obj-C bridge, so it's easy to use any Cocoa classes. 17:02:19 (and make your own using DEFCLASS) 17:02:48 *moah* would like the *nix lisp to at least standardize on something alike tk and then ship it with the base distribution or as a official standard package. 17:03:24 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-tanahltgbocixlwu] has joined #lisp 17:03:27 I would like a pony 17:03:40 i can imagine that many newbies are deterred from the lisp side of things precisely for the fact that there are no standard guis. 17:04:04 who wouldnt? ;) 17:04:06 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:04:40 Wanted to know opinion on Allegro CL Express edition 17:04:54 moah: I was reading an interesting old thread from 1997 or 1998 recently and it was about extending the behavior of the reader. 17:05:30 moah: the guy plugging the change said "We just have to convince Franz, Harlequin, and Sam Steingold and it will be a de facto standard!" it was tongue in cheek, but it shows how the landscape has changed 17:05:58 ;) 17:06:38 sellout: How is the CCL GUI situation for loonix and frineds? 17:07:01 <_deepfire> Aha, now alexandria conflicts with McCLIM, over SIMPLE-PARSE-ERROR symbol. 17:07:38 Hmmm.. 17:07:43 "conflicts" in the "doesn't actually conflict unless you ask for it" sense, right? 17:07:49 moah: I don't quite believe that logic. Many popular languages have no standard gui. 17:08:14 C and C++ most prominent among them. 17:08:14 is there a good way to slurp stuff from streams? 17:08:22 -!- stattrav_ [n=Stattrav@117.192.133.35] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:08:28 *Xantoz* is trying trivial-http 17:08:35 <_deepfire> Xof, well, you can't load both of them, FSVO "load", as performed by the buildbot. 17:08:56 schme: Only as complete as this is: http://www.cocotron.org/ (which I think means non-existent on Linux so far, but it's OSS ...). I don't think there's any way for CCL to use GNUstep, but maybe someone could figure it out. 17:09:18 both c/c++ have a quasi-standard gui on the big platforms. 17:09:40 moah: (eg. C, C++, python) 17:09:41 the Q in QT stands for "quasi"? 17:09:47 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has quit [] 17:09:53 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:09:58 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit ["Serverwechsel"] 17:09:59 _deepfire: well, what is the VO"load"? I can believe that they both define and export that symbol, but I can't really believe that that causes a conflict 17:10:13 <_deepfire> Xof, let me investigate.. 17:10:18 shrughes [n=shrughes@c-76-118-176-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:24 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 17:11:03 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:11:07 kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 17:11:16 "Quasi sTandard", the dev framework. 17:11:32 <_deepfire> Xof, indeed, you're right, the culprit is a module one of whose packages uses both alexandria and clim packages. 17:11:50 <_deepfire> Incidentally, I wrote that package :-) 17:11:59 <_deepfire> Er, module. 17:12:00 moah: I see dem both using gtk, qt, wxwidgets. Three does not a standard make. 17:12:06 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 17:13:13 schme, what I meant was that theres always _something_ in widespread use. 17:13:58 moah: hmm ok. Well I dunno. I'm happy with mcclim tbh :) 17:14:26 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit ["out"] 17:15:21 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483DA1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:08 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:17:10 i dont know, havent looked at mcclim yet, but it doesnt seem to me as finished or comparable to more modern toolkits. 17:17:32 lispworks even sells it under a title "for legacy applications only." 17:18:29 LW doesn't sell McCLIM 17:18:31 -!- milanj [n=milan@109.93.202.3] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:18:31 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:18:31 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:18:31 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:18:31 -!- ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:18:31 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:18:45 i know, they sell their own clim implementation. 17:18:47 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@117.192.143.128] has joined #lisp 17:19:36 and they wrote CAPI, which is why they push aside their CLIM 17:20:26 rrice [n=rrice@63.81.0.20] has joined #lisp 17:22:45 wow arch's sbcl is a bit different than that of ubuntu, and not in the best way. 17:23:44 -!- attila_lendvai__ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:23:53 moah: so it seems you're not too excited about McCLIM, but for someone else it works fine.. and now you want a _standard_ GUI 17:24:09 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:40 ruediger_ [n=quassel@91-115-25-138.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:24:44 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:25:01 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-190-136.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:25:04 -!- ruediger_ is now known as ruediger 17:25:21 moah: so which one of the available GUIs would you like to standardize (I assume you've used it and liked it)? 17:25:23 CLIM is in many ways awesome and yet not for everyone. 17:25:38 i cant say that i'm not excited about mcclim, i dont know it good enough for that. 17:25:55 lispm [n=joswig@g224120006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:25:59 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@17.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:26:08 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:09 jmbr [n=jmbr@17.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:27:58 i'm just pointing out that basically more popular languages all have bindings to more common (and thus actively developed) toolkits. 17:28:03 For cross-platform, conventional GUI work, ltk may be the easiest to deal with. 17:29:34 moah: I may be wrong, but my suspicion is that a lot of people using CL do so because of the things it's good at now, and those don't particularly include GUI development. 17:30:27 i don't think GUI development is the right term, but quite a few programs these days actually have GUI's 17:30:56 to say CL doesn't need binding to some GUI strikes me as rather a stick the head in the sand mentality 17:31:09 Guthur: did anyone say that? 17:31:22 well ya it appears they did 17:31:35 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 17:31:43 Greetings lispers. 17:31:49 "but my suspicion is that a lot of people using CL do so because of the things it's good at now, and those don't particularly include GUI development." 17:31:51 i dont think anyone is saying that. more or less everyone is just whining this isn't already done. 17:31:58 what about things like cl-gtk2? 17:32:01 Guthur: I didn't say that. What I meant to say was "this may account for people in this community not spending a lot of time implementing a GUI connection." 17:32:34 rpg ok i picked you up wrong 17:32:41 when it comes to commercial projects, i think most CL people go after high-hanging fruit for the simple reason that it's depressing to compete at the level where just about anything will do, and java /will/ do fine for your typical bizz-app with a GUI. 17:33:01 sorry about that 17:33:11 I'd like to have a GUI toolkit, but I'm not particularly good at graphics toolkits, so I spend my time on other things. 17:33:22 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:34:01 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@117.192.143.128] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:34:35 Xantoz: yes, and there's also cl-smoke/commonqt/... 17:34:41 If anyone is familiar with arch and sbcl...what's this --disable-debugger that's now standard? Tried to disable the inits (both user and sys) and it's still just dying on the first error encountered 17:34:44 looked a bit at those 17:34:53 It used to drop to a debugger, now it doesn't..whichi s annoying as hell. 17:35:26 adeht: 17:36:35 TDT: --disable-debugger isn't the default in sbcl 17:36:50 TDT: They used a build script which was run --disable-debugger and then did a save-lisp-and-die, which persisted into the saved core. 17:36:52 TDT: though if you save a core that option is remembered. 17:37:01 TDT: Known Arch bug. 17:37:28 TDT: There's some way to re-enable the debugger from a running lisp though. 17:37:42 (sb-ext:enable-debugger) 17:37:55 yeah, i read Xach's post about it, and could just do the reverse...would rather have it global though. 17:38:13 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:38:21 I think I may build it by source instead of bothering with trying to fix this. 17:38:24 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:39:54 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-61-82-250-90-205.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:40:27 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-33-216.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:42 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:42:56 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:19 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@117.192.130.194] has joined #lisp 17:46:26 geekles [n=smh@CPE-65-27-73-151.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:17 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:52:35 milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.173] has joined #lisp 17:52:35 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:52:35 ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:52:35 joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 17:52:35 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:49 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:57:10 md1 [n=user@chello089173014026.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 17:57:34 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:58:24 demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:19 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 18:01:25 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:01:47 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host11.190-137-241.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:01:59 http://pastebin.com/m6dba56dd bad solution? 18:02:02 =p 18:02:23 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:03:05 Xantoz: yes. 18:03:20 Xantoz: see WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING for example. and LET. 18:03:24 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:03:30 Xach: ah! 18:03:59 but i didn't really know what prog did prior to this... 18:04:03 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 18:04:26 -!- muopioid [i=62f7735e@gateway/web/freenode/x-mryxfkqjhierrahi] has quit ["Page closed"] 18:04:27 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@186.124.139.17] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:04:30 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 18:05:27 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:15 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:07:22 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:08:45 not that i think i'll use it often :p 18:09:01 *Xach* has not yet used PROG 18:10:21 what would be the best way to check when to stop? handling the error, or the second return value of read-line? 18:10:40 Xantoz: second value. 18:10:48 k 18:11:07 -!- umopepisdn` is now known as pragma_ 18:11:08 although you don't seem to be too concerned about faithfully constructing the same document 18:11:12 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.173] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:11:20 Xach: not, really 18:11:20 so you could just use the primary value 18:11:42 (loop for line = (read-line stream) while line do (write-line line output-stream)) 18:11:42 milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.173] has joined #lisp 18:11:48 It's mainly gonna get regexes run on it later 18:12:10 and then handle the eof? 18:12:21 ah, while line 18:12:25 sorry, (read-line stream nil) 18:12:46 looks good enough 18:15:10 Xantoz: If you're comfortable using an LL(1) parser generator instead of regex, take a look at meta-sexp -> http://www.cliki.net/meta-sexp 18:16:41 tmh: interesting 18:16:50 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 18:17:09 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:20 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 18:17:33 -!- liron` [n=user@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:17:35 liron`` [n=user@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:41 -!- geekles [n=smh@CPE-65-27-73-151.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:34 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:47 Xantoz pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91823 18:19:05 looks a little better now :p, thanks 18:24:49 i'm not all that confident with IO yet 18:25:24 <_deepfire> Do people use :METHOD :AROUND in defgeneric? Do they suffer from slime mis-indentation? 18:25:55 Xantoz: If performance becomes an issue, I recommend getting familiar with READ-SEQUENCE. 18:26:25 tmh: ah 18:27:17 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:27:20 _deepfire: I suspect that most people don't even use :METHOD in defgeneric. 18:28:04 That said, I'm working on a very small sample, so can probably be disregarded. 18:28:21 oliperas [i=oliperas@188.4.19.159.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:29:39 billstclai [n=billstcl@dsl-74-209-20-143.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:46 -!- bpr [n=user@cpe-72-231-172-136.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:30:25 *Xach* uses :method in defgeneric quite a bit 18:31:35 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 18:32:26 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:35:14 aintme [n=Miranda@48.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:37:58 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:38:09 *tmh* is so accustomed to paredit, that he gets confused when working in non-lisp files. 18:39:09 Heh. I've actually gotten used to paredit from using it in windows and maybe for the bots that I'm kindof missing it in my main linux setup. 18:40:03 Why don't you install it? 18:41:24 Too much trouble? 18:41:50 I'll probably install it once I've finished dealing with the current round of hardware upgrades. 18:43:05 I've broken down on RHEL and started generating my own custom RPMS for software that doesn't have recent versions in the standard repositories. 18:43:28 Joreji [n=thomas@40-020.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:43:37 I broke down and installed debian. :P 18:44:14 I might install debian soon. 18:44:37 I just really don't have the time or energy to deal with keeping any rolling-release system up-to-date. 18:44:50 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:45:18 foom: Commercial software I need doesn't support debian, only commercial linux distros. If it wasn't for that software, I'd be using FreeBSD. In fact, I just installed FreeBSD in a VirtualBox VM because I was losing my FreeBSD skillz. :-) 18:45:38 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:45:40 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:45:44 well ubuntu karmic was a lot of troble, don't know about corresponding debian.. 18:45:59 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:46:02 -!- redblue [n=star@ppp155.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:46:05 Well, finally got arch fixed, awesome. 18:46:11 Younder: heh. ubuntu ~= devhead debian without much testing. 18:46:23 ...IMO. 18:46:25 right 18:47:09 There is a lot of testing going on with ubuntu too. Apparently not enough though 18:48:01 There's an interesting balance between having the newest stuff and having it super stable. 18:48:30 -!- keepguessing_ [i=7aa7425b@gateway/web/freenode/x-yqxwlkpfvuaozjex] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 18:48:38 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:56 and ubuntu misses the target by a light year. 18:49:18 hah, I haven't had too many issues with ubuntu..but I don't run it full time either. 18:49:30 I run OSX, with stuff in virtual machines. that's worked fairly well so far. 18:50:13 I sure love all this FREEDOM. 18:51:25 Free Software requires lots of Free Time. :-P 18:51:44 "Linux is only free if your time has no value"? 18:51:53 Exactly 18:52:17 ;D 18:52:27 haha, one nice thing is once you get it setup at least it's done...well hopefully. 18:52:42 Right up until you need to install some more software. 18:52:59 Another reason I like virtual machines..I take snapshots of the install when I finish. 18:53:07 yeah, well, the key to that is never upgrading :) 18:53:16 ubuntu does shine as being more easy to install and run that windows .. 'If it works' and updating to a new version is dangerous 18:53:34 And then you find that because you haven't messed with the configuration in a month and a half that you need to spend half a day or more on it. 18:53:51 tcr: aroundp? 18:53:53 That's what I miss about FreeBSD. I understood it very well and had a system in place that allowed me to keep it and the packages up-to-date with relatively little of my own time. 18:54:00 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:55:46 all debian systems have automatic (if requested) update 18:56:08 The thing I'm not fond of with debian is it takes the windows and osx approach to some updates...restarting the machine. 18:56:10 BSD's packages dont update during a release afaik, except if you start using ports 18:56:18 Good evening! 18:56:20 TDT: ?? 18:56:28 TDT: It certainly does not... 18:56:39 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 18:56:48 TDT: if a kernel is updated, you need to reboot to get the new kernel, of course. 18:57:22 *shrug* been using u buntu for awhile, and it's just happened again recently. Using the update app through the GUI 18:57:25 TDT, only if the kernel has been updated, which is rare 18:57:36 Hmm, is there any quasi-standard (a la grey streams) or sbcl-supported mechanism for hooking OPEN? 18:57:42 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.65.24] has left #lisp 18:57:48 Dawgmatix_ [n=dman@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:15 *Xach* wants to bake a file into his executable and pass it to a library that expects a pathname to open 18:58:22 wlr_ [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:52 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:59:12 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:59:34 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f756c74.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:59:59 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f756c74.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:01 *Xach* M-.s for a while 19:00:24 Xach: no. for gray streams one must provide custom constructors 19:00:49 is there a way to, given a C header file, automatically makes CFFI bindings for it? CFFI-Grovel doesn't look like what I want. 19:01:00 prxq [n=mommer@g226129230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:02 foom: verrazano is it. 19:01:09 hi 19:01:13 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.173] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:01:31 prxq: hello 19:02:04 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:06 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:34 foom: http://common-lisp.net/project/fetter 19:05:38 is there a rationale, why in SBCL (and (values nil :foo)) returns 2 values, while (and (values nil :foo) :bar) returns only 1 ? 19:05:59 does it work? 19:06:04 no updates since 2005 makes me wary 19:06:14 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-71-249-4-85.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:17 foom: there have been updates in the tree since then 19:06:23 foom: Here's your chance for fame and glory! 19:06:24 demmeln: CL standard 19:07:01 tmh: I don't want fame and glory in getting a bindings generator to work. 19:07:12 tmh: I'd rather actually work on getting the bindings themselves working. :) 19:07:27 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-107-60.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:08:47 abandonware is a threat to a environment's health 19:09:02 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:07 Shamiq [n=Adium@wireless-165-124-97-62.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 19:09:11 hi all 19:09:13 cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:10:04 minion clhs and 19:10:12 clhs and 19:10:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_and.htm 19:11:01 ah its the specbot. Thanks 19:11:23 and is a macro.. I sustepct that is the problem. 19:11:38 (apply #'cons 'a 'b '(c)) or (list * 'a 'b '(c)) 19:12:09 demmeln: and the rational of the standard is that that way you don't need to save intermediate multiple-values 19:12:10 not sure which to use 19:12:10 the second 19:12:18 silenius [n=jl@dslb-088-072-194-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:20 why? 19:12:24 -!- silenius [n=jl@dslb-088-072-194-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:12:43 Shamiq: the former wouldn't work 19:13:03 cons is for two elements. To automate this for many elements you have list. 19:13:19 stassats: oh, it hits 'a 'b first, right? 19:13:34 compare (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) with (list 1 2 3) 19:13:36 Shamiq: no, it hits all free arguments, but CONS wants only two 19:13:46 s/free/three/ 19:14:20 Shamiq, in your example you need reduce, not apply 19:14:44 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-71-249-4-85.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:14:55 no, Shamiq needs list* 19:15:00 Is there a way to make M-. work for remote swank connections? 19:15:00 dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 19:15:20 sykopomp: It works for me... 19:15:33 Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:35 stassats, well I was looking at his first example.. which wouldn't work 19:15:41 bfein: do you load the code locally, too, then? 19:15:42 sykopomp: you mean open the right files? 19:15:58 stassats: yeah. 19:16:17 It's probably too much to ask, but I wonder if there's a way to make it open the right file through tramp. 19:16:38 sykopomp: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Setting-up-pathname-translations.html#Setting-up-pathname-translations 19:16:47 -!- aintme [n=Miranda@48.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:16:55 rdd`` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:17:10 luis`: I'm working on a way to configure ASDF packages 19:17:28 foom: there's SWIG too. 19:17:32 stassats: thanks! 19:17:50 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:17:54 luis`: maybe even add it to xcvb, so I forked trivial-features 19:17:54 foom: real men produce hand-written bindings. :-) 19:18:11 real men produce native lisp code 19:18:23 fe[nl]ix: sounds interesting. What do you mean by "configure" exactly? 19:18:33 luis`: something akin to autotools 19:18:40 and you none of you renegades run stumpwm.. 19:18:53 why would you want to compare your work to autotools? :) 19:19:14 luis`: to detect platform features, per-package *features*, etc... 19:19:24 luis`: same goal, hopefully different outcome 19:19:44 xristos [n=x@research.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 19:19:52 fe[nl]ix: sounds useful. 19:20:06 luis: thanks. 19:20:18 fe[nl]ix: getting farther and farther away from your bittorrent client heh? :) 19:20:29 luis`: every day 19:20:29 swig looks to be the winner 19:20:51 swig -cffi looks like it Just Works. 19:21:14 Just Workingness is overrated. 19:21:28 luis`: I'll work on it this weekend, given that my home DSL is offline :) 19:21:28 davazp` [n=user@15.Red-88-1-99.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:31 bye 19:21:33 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has quit ["Valete!"] 19:22:01 milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.173] has joined #lisp 19:22:05 aintme [n=Miranda@48.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:22:28 foom, I wish 19:23:09 Younder: it doesn't work for you? 19:23:55 -!- rdd`` is now known as rdd` 19:24:10 foom: the last time I used it I ended up hand coding it instead 19:24:40 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:25:01 good old (bloody old) CFFI 19:26:21 When it works it's great. 19:26:35 -!- oliperas [i=oliperas@188.4.19.159.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [] 19:28:50 sykopomp: I start a remote swank with just swank loaded. I connect to it, and load whatever I need (at the emacs/slime connected to the swank) 19:29:04 M-. works 19:29:14 stassats: the SLIME documentation there is wrong: the :remote-host and :machine-instance args are swapped :\ 19:29:29 emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:18 right, i'll fix it 19:31:23 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:32:18 -!- emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:32:29 -!- Soulman__ [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:33:05 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:33:31 milanj- [n=milan@93.86.189.74] has joined #lisp 19:34:55 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:36:26 -!- moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-171-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:36:29 -!- davazp [n=user@16.Red-83-57-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Success] 19:37:58 *lispm* upvotes Xach so that he gets nearer to that badge 19:38:19 What badge? 19:38:24 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:38:31 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:32 he knows ;-) 19:39:01 lispm: i was concerned for your health when i saw you had no answer in the mix 19:39:32 yeah, kind of slow here - busy in the Lispm debugger 19:39:49 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-123-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:14 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.173] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:40:27 embarassing, I know 19:40:58 you are talking about stack overflow, aren't you? 19:41:21 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 19:41:31 segv [n=mb@p4FC1C635.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:38 yes 19:42:26 well on interrupt switch to a alternate stack statically allocated (BSS) 19:42:54 just a suggestion 19:42:58 splittist [n=dmurray@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:43:02 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 19:43:02 morning 19:43:13 morning? 19:43:21 evening 19:43:26 lispm: it's an affectation 19:43:33 ah 19:43:46 milan [n=milan@93.86.189.74] has joined #lisp 19:44:05 Xach: ping 19:44:57 splittist, ban has been lifted if that's what you mean 19:45:16 hello splittist 19:45:21 Xach: apols if corn, but you might enjoy http://www.infoq.com/presentations/bryant-failure-guide 19:45:23 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:45:50 lots of sparklines etc. 19:45:58 oh, cool. thanks. 19:46:34 splittist, thx 19:46:54 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-123-253.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:48:09 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 19:48:42 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:49:48 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:00 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.86.189.74] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:51:11 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:51:41 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.250.254] has joined #lisp 19:51:58 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 19:53:54 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-123-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:29 -!- Dawgmatix_ [n=dman@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:58:41 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:00:03 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:34 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:03:00 seriously chatty, isn't he 20:04:58 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-38-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:08 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224120006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:05:11 lispm [n=joswig@g224120006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:07:08 -!- Madsy [n=madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit ["new kernel"] 20:07:24 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224120006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:07:43 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-25-138.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:08:14 -!- phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 20:10:03 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:10:13 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:41 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11:53 -!- ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:12:06 ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 20:14:17 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:14:21 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:49 SandGorgon_ [n=OmNomNom@122.173.250.254] has joined #lisp 20:15:32 What's a reasonably-sized dev team for a modest web2.x/social media-type startup - one/two/more? 20:15:45 Dodek_ [i=dodek@dodecki.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:52 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:59 -!- milan [n=milan@93.86.189.74] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:26 web 2.x, hehe like that 20:16:39 milan [n=milan@93.86.189.74] has joined #lisp 20:17:10 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:17:27 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 20:17:34 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:17:49 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 20:18:37 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 20:19:23 I still wonder what web 2 is.. 20:20:00 Is there any established truth about this? 20:20:07 varjag [n=eugene@86.57.255.77] has joined #lisp 20:20:21 wikipedia's good as anyone. 20:20:28 user-driven and interactive. 20:20:37 (as in, WP's definition of web2.0) 20:20:42 yes, I've read alot 20:21:12 i think it morphed into that though 20:21:16 i nearly sure 20:21:20 like using web dev's like google maps in your wb page 20:21:22 -!- milan [n=milan@93.86.189.74] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:21:22 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:21:22 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:21:22 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:21:27 or like flikr 20:21:45 i'm nearly sure 2.0 was mention before the whole social networking malarky 20:21:50 -!- Dodek [i=dodek@dodecki.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:21:55 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:02 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:47 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:26:20 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 20:27:08 The last project i did was www.kryssord.org a norwegian crossword generator 20:27:41 madsy [n=madsy@ti0207a340-1311.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:28:03 all written in Lisp :) 20:28:33 ...lovely site. 20:28:35 what framework did you use? 20:28:44 hunchentoot 20:30:32 moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-171-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:47 what a great name 20:31:05 -!- madsy is now known as Madsy 20:32:44 triyo [n=triyo@dsl-245-157-128.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:33:03 joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 20:33:04 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-26.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:33:13 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:30 rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:37 Demosthenes: "hunchentoot"? It was invented by Frank Zappa 20:33:54 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32E0F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:55 beach: one of his kids? 20:35:22 No, a character in some kind of play that was never performed as I recall. 20:35:36 milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.74] has joined #lisp 20:35:49 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.74] has left #lisp 20:36:13 milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.74] has joined #lisp 20:36:46 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-123-253.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:37:08 http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/index.php/Hunchentoot 20:37:19 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:48 -!- aintme [n=Miranda@48.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["/* */"] 20:37:52 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-059-023-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:31 hello. 20:39:32 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:45 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 20:41:41 yes, hunchentoot was a play by frank zappa that was never screened. It is also a webserver by Edi Weitz as yoy perfectly well know 20:41:46 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:41:53 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 20:42:26 i am looking for a minimal/most-simple lisp interpreter written in C (in order to start my own one in a c-dialect ;). for now i found femtolisp and lisp500, but maybe someone has additional hints - thanks. 20:42:30 a giant spider is itself not usefull. (but it's web is) 20:42:59 trebor_home, roll your own then. a Common Lisp is a very non-trivial task. For inspiration, see ECL and XCL (http://armedbear.org) 20:43:04 Younder: unless you have a tunnel to guard in mordor 20:43:18 trebor_home, have you looked at Guile? 20:43:26 seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:41 Younder: not till now ;) - thanks, googling 20:43:47 It's scheme, not CL 20:44:14 -!- md1 [n=user@chello089173014026.chello.sk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:44:28 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:45:22 snellman would kill me if I didn't also metion ECL 20:47:34 -!- ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:48:23 tic: i need to port it till 24.12 ;) - so simplicity is very important. femtolisp (version 1) seems to be my favorite, but maybe further googling will save me some time later. 20:48:41 trebor_home, port to what? 20:49:00 not-quite-c (NQC) 20:49:09 tic: that is europen Xmas 20:49:15 trebor_home, aha. any particular reason. 20:49:24 Younder, jeg skjönner vel det! 20:49:34 :-) 20:49:48 tic: ahh, du er norsk. 20:50:12 Younder, nope, Swedish. 20:50:41 tic: got that from the o at second glance 20:52:08 tic: lego-mindstorms (there is nxt-g, but it works under win/mac only, there is xs-lisp, too - but it works on older hardware only) 20:52:29 tic: Nødvendig å gjøre små endringer.. Ære må ta siste plass.. 20:53:06 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:08 Younder, sant nok. 20:53:41 trebor_home, coolio. I thought the Lisp dialect for lego-mindstorms was already updated. Hm. 20:53:48 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 20:55:07 trebor_home: the GC is going to be interesting... 20:56:45 well there exists a jvm for them nxts also, through lejos. maybe something could be run atop that? 20:56:49 tic: i talked to the original author (jap.) and to the author of the fork. xs-lisp only works on rxc and the fork is only a lisp-library to talk to nxt-2.0 chips via bluetooth. 20:57:03 trebor_home, advanced. 20:57:20 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:57:42 -!- borism [n=boris@213-35-235-152-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 20:58:06 tic: sorry, what do you mean? 20:58:23 trebor_home, it sounds advanced. :-) bluetooth. but maybe I'm just old. 20:58:25 getting old. 20:59:31 bluetooth is too simple. You have to add encryption. 21:00:13 tic: advanced - maybe, but i like the idea of running a lisp interpreter + program on the chip itself. 21:00:22 trebor_home, yeah, sure. quite cool. 21:02:18 so femtolisps 1 kLOC of C are ok for a start (the 500 lines of lisp500 are sort of human-zipped-c ;) 21:03:46 would that be a live environment, w/ a repl and all? 21:04:21 for this group which is primary Common Lisp I would like to mention Embeddable Common Lisp ECL 21:04:36 femtolisp includes a repl. 21:07:14 all lisp's have a REPL 21:07:53 I'm not so sure. 21:08:27 tic: I have given up on opera! 21:08:59 schme, me too, I use Chrome 21:09:07 never tried no chrome 21:09:27 schme, you seriously should 21:09:34 I'll give it a go. 21:09:37 I like conkeror at the moment. 21:09:52 slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:52 opera seemed nice, but it takes forever to get it out of hibernation when I' have done s2disk :) 21:10:01 also rollin' with conkeror here 21:10:11 demmeln1 [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:15 they hatin' 21:12:24 -!- SandGorgon_ [n=OmNomNom@122.173.250.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:12:26 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.250.254] has quit [Success] 21:12:27 for some reason opera just has all those details 21:12:32 -!- guaqua_ is now known as guaqua 21:12:47 Looks like we have the Durk name available for another CL HTTP-related package. 21:12:58 schme, oh noes! ze horror. 21:13:06 tic: yeah is painful :P 21:13:19 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-107-60.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:13:46 schme, is niiiice 21:13:49 (or something.) 21:14:00 ahahah 21:14:17 Have colleagues who talk like that, heh. 21:16:23 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:17:02 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@117.192.130.194] has quit ["off to watch a monty python sketch and then to sleep"] 21:17:32 only 181 tagged messages left in my mcclim-devel buffer! 21:20:10 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:20:28 -!- demmeln1 [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:30:19 [browsers] conkeror is neat, yeah. though my poor desktop feels it's a bit heavy after a few tabs/buffers (512M memory and xinerama setup hungrily eating:S) 21:30:49 still lighter than firefox, despite using the same engine 21:31:58 -!- nunb [n=nundan@94.161.165.83] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:34:50 -!- varjag [n=eugene@86.57.255.77] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:35:58 *sigh* 21:36:03 Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:05 beach: wussup? 21:37:37 prxq: If I am going to fix all those bugs reported about McCLIM myself, it's going to take years. 21:39:16 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:39:27 When trying to test the list box, I got an error message that made me want to make make-pane check for a NIL pane realizer and give an explicit error message, but I didn't have time to fix it right then. 21:39:31 -!- mcspiff` [n=user@142.68.158.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:35 mcspiff` [n=user@142.68.158.161] has joined #lisp 21:39:37 addled [n=adl@77.208.206.140] has joined #lisp 21:39:45 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-164-77.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:30 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:42:07 -!- addled [n=adl@77.208.206.140] has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:51 I think Krystof did the right thing to recommend a bug tracker, but I think I have the same problem that I have with recommendations to use org mode, in that the problem is not to know what there is to do, but finding time to do it. 21:43:37 well.. it certainly helps to make the TODO list more visible. 21:44:01 marioxcc [n=user@201.132.83.130] has joined #lisp 21:44:02 that way, there's at least a possibility of people helping out! 21:44:06 s/a/the/ 21:44:19 I'm not going to be that on, right now, though. Night, #lisp. 21:44:28 tic: does it? During my bad moments, I think the only difference is that it takes more time to establish the TODO list than not to establish it. 21:44:43 'night 21:45:07 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f756c74.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:45:25 -!- billstclai is now known as billstclair 21:46:29 *beach* wonders if such attitude is another result of the heritage of protestant work ethics, and he feels his spanish genes pulling the other way. 21:46:59 -!- davazp` [n=user@15.Red-88-1-99.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:01 it depends on the setup, at least with org. It isn't magic, though. The day length will still be 24h. 21:48:07 davazp` [n=user@61.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:21 *beach* suspected that all along. 21:49:41 ...despite implicit claims to the contrary :-) 21:49:52 :) 21:51:17 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:51:23 hey, Xach, you are thwarting my lecturing method! ;) 21:51:44 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:54:52 blitz_` [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 21:57:25 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:51 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-74-104.iburst.co.za] has quit ["leaving"] 22:01:47 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.138.201] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:04:01 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:05:36 beach: I have been going through the ~300 tagged messages in my mcclim-devel 22:06:03 I've pushed about 10 bugs to the bug tracker, and untagged ~100 more messages as being no longer relevant / dealt with by someone else / etc 22:06:30 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 22:06:45 the important thing I think is to log the issues, so that someone (even if not you) has the chance to learn by doing (or do while learning) later on 22:06:51 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:07:09 org-mode is slightly different, because that really is about managing personal time rather than project accessibility 22:08:02 me having an org-mode-based workflow doesn't help anyone else (except when I'm reminded of what I'm doing), but a bug tracker helps other people see what needs doing, and prevents _them_ from wasting their time 22:08:10 that's my take, anyway 22:08:42 -!- mcspiff` [n=user@142.68.158.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:09:28 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["M-x sleep-mode"] 22:09:31 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:09:57 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:01 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 22:12:28 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:00 good night 22:14:13 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06fbd1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["black night is a long way from home"] 22:14:46 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:16:22 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.117.137] has joined #lisp 22:20:50 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:21:21 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:22:32 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:25:43 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:25:49 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:27:04 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:31:40 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:32:07 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:33:19 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:37:20 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cpc3-colc5-0-0-cust808.colc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:40:09 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:40:21 -!- triyo [n=triyo@dsl-245-157-128.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [] 22:41:19 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:34 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@40-020.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:43:19 so, got a paste coming 22:43:23 anyone willing to take a glance? 22:43:27 Shamiq pasted "intersperse" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91837 22:44:14 it's currently failing (intersperse '- 'NIL) and returning NIL instead of (NIL) 22:44:52 why should it do that? 22:45:36 part of the spec, if i'm reading it correctly 22:45:38 NOTE: (intersperse '- '(a)) should return (a) and (intersperse '- '()) should return (). 22:45:55 well, it returns (), isn't it? 22:46:08 oh, i got it the other way around 22:46:51 Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 22:47:42 Shamiq: (loop for (x . rest) on list collect x when rest collect delim) 22:48:15 stassats annotated #91837 "my version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91837#1 22:48:32 too late 22:49:50 :) 22:51:10 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:51:18 well, that passes the test cases. 22:51:30 if you don't want to use loop, I think mapcon is the mapper to use 22:51:44 or is it mapc? 22:51:47 clhs mapc 22:51:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 22:51:54 so, i don't know why i wouldn't want to use loop. 22:52:26 oh, never mind, it's mapcon 22:52:33 Shamiq: I don't either :) 22:54:00 although I find what you're doing rather odd 22:54:08 it looks like you're using the wrong data structures 22:54:16 let me more 22:54:20 tell* 23:00:30 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.195.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:49 hum. CFFI only has the type ":pointer" instead of "(* typename)" like SBCL's FFI has? 23:03:40 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:06:15 CFFI has other ways of defining types, foom 23:06:29 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/Foreign-Types.html 23:07:32 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:07:48 ruediger [n=quassel@91-115-25-138.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:11:07 -!- bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Adios"] 23:11:17 hi, I'm using sb-bsd-sockets:socket-connect and I can't figure a way to time it out, if it's unreachable, it'll just hang. is there a sb-bsd-sockets way to do this or alternatively, can I force a timeout on it? 23:12:10 bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:20 I guess trivial-timeout would work 23:12:40 or sb-sys:with-deadline 23:13:14 thanks 23:13:30 sb-ext:with-timeout 23:13:51 stassats: thanks 23:14:02 -!- borisc [n=borisc@borisc2.csbnet.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:14:13 borisc [n=borisc@borisc2.csbnet.se] has joined #lisp 23:14:43 it might be a good idea to check the doc-strings of the various facilities; (describe 'sb-sys:with-deadline) .. (describe 'sb-ext:with-timeout) 23:14:50 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:15:14 a-s` [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:11 (..for what its worth, i find non-blocking I/O with no timeouts simpler to deal with..) 23:16:37 uh, well .. no with-timeouts or similar that is, of course 23:17:36 hm, they seem pretty similar 23:17:59 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.117.137] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:18:29 it should be quite easy to add a :TIMEOUT parameter to the call and recompile. last time i looked at this (for an UDP server, which actually lacked timeout stuff too) that is what i did. 23:18:34 -!- Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["gone but not forgotten"] 23:20:55 lnostdal: I saw that, but I don't understand what it's trying to tell me. And it looks like normally people just use :pointer for all pointers? 23:20:57 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 23:21:28 hypno: do you remember which method you used for the timeout? 23:23:38 egn: not specificly, no. i modified the C/lisp-ffi socket code in the source to support a timeout to UDP sockets (i wanted it to fail after, say, 2 seconds). i explicitly did not want the timer hacks. 23:24:24 any access grid users here? 23:24:28 benny` [n=benny@i577A8C36.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:25:04 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:25:31 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:07 -!- prxq [n=mommer@g226129230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["good night"] 23:27:47 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:28:00 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:28:20 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-71-249-4-85.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:36 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:29:59 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A7A29.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:32:52 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@22.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 23:38:28 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 23:40:03 geekles [n=smh@CPE-65-27-73-151.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:13 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:47:32 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@17.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Success] 23:52:10 Piranha__ [i=piranha@synthetic-forms.thoughtcrime.us] has joined #lisp 23:52:45 I'm defining DESCRIBE-OBJECT on a condition type. Am I correct in believing that's unportable because condition types may not be CLOS classes? 23:53:01 clhs describe-object 23:53:01 jp_larocque: no 23:53:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_desc_1.htm 23:53:09 mcspiff` [n=user@142.68.158.161] has joined #lisp 23:53:25 jp_larocque: generic funcitons dispatch on classes, not CLOS classes 23:53:51 jp_larocque: and you probably want to put a :report option in the condition definiton instead 23:54:15 :report is for print-object 23:54:25 jp_larocque: you can define methods on INTEGER, for example 23:54:37 Okay, good. And, for somewhat complicated reasons, I'm calling DESCRIBE from the :REPORT function. 23:54:53 ok 23:55:30 Thanks. 23:57:50 brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:58:46 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.74] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:58:50 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@e179161072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"]