00:00:07 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-40-147.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:01:50 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:09:56 -!- mutew [n=mutew@128.220.159.20] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:10:53 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:23 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 00:13:51 -!- j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:14:59 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-42-180.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 00:18:51 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:18:53 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:20:32 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [] 00:25:02 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 00:28:10 The_Doctor [n=The_Doct@dhcp-168-105-225-31.wireless.manoa.hawaii.edu] has joined #lisp 00:29:38 -!- The_Doctor [n=The_Doct@dhcp-168-105-225-31.wireless.manoa.hawaii.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:31:28 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:33:52 c|mell [n=cmell@93-142-137-121.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:35:37 The_Doctor [n=The_Doct@dhcp-168-105-225-31.wireless.manoa.hawaii.edu] has joined #lisp 00:38:13 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 00:38:15 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 00:39:09 -!- The_Doctor [n=The_Doct@dhcp-168-105-225-31.wireless.manoa.hawaii.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 00:40:57 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:48:34 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.114.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:48:40 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 00:56:14 If I have a VOP that returns a result in an unsigned-reg SC and the result-type is positive-fixnum, do I expect the result to be fixnum-tagged or unboxed? 00:56:50 ... I guess it's unboxed. 00:58:52 nyef have you been doing work on sbcl the last couple of days? 00:58:58 Yeah. 01:00:55 nice, keep up the good work hehe 01:01:17 This hack has been far more obnoxious and stressful than I had expected going in. 01:02:10 do you still think its possible? 01:03:06 I think it fundamentally -works-, it's just tracking down the last (hopfully) few places where fixnums are assumed to be 61 bits. 01:03:21 Well, where they're assumed to be 61 bits and will break horribly when they aren't. 01:03:51 I don't -think- modular arithmetic will die screaming on this, for example, though it may be less than optimal. 01:04:19 At the same time, I'm having trouble seeing where some of the modular arithmetic VOPs are defined, so that may not be the case. 01:05:32 Oh, that's where they are. 01:05:50 *nyef* marks down modular arithmetic as a possible trouble area for later and moves on. 01:06:46 big fixnums are nearly a reality then hehe 01:07:09 Yeah, so long as my reality check doesn't bounce. 01:08:49 nice punnary 01:09:14 redline6561 [n=redline@c-24-98-49-5.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:23 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357050.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:09:30 The number of places where someone's written a literal 3 instead of n-fixnum-tag-bits is far more than necessary. 01:11:01 Volunteering mac-os ppc, 32-bit ubuntu, 32-bit openbsd for build farm for sbcl if useful. 01:13:40 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:44 nyef magic numbers, i was just beating myself up for doing the same sort of thing 01:16:08 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 01:21:00 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 01:21:07 ... All of the floaty vector accessors need fixing. And I'll need to check define-full-{reff,sett}er+offset separately. 01:22:01 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-2-150.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:24:37 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 01:33:44 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:42:08 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:46 bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has joined #lisp 01:43:56 -!- bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has left #lisp 01:44:03 jkern [n=jkern@pool-108-2-110-22.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:08 -!- jkern is now known as timetrap 01:44:28 So 01:44:42 can someone take a look at this for me? 01:44:51 http://gist.github.com/247821 01:44:58 It works. 01:45:04 But it's really slow. 01:45:19 (I'm trying to write 100MB to a file) 01:45:57 timetrap: what implementation is that? 01:46:14 clisp 01:46:19 clhs write-sequence 01:46:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_seq.htm 01:46:32 may be faster 01:46:53 I mean ... is it "correct"? 01:48:04 I do something like `print "\xFE" * (2**20)` in python, is this the same? 01:48:11 It's... trying to persuade the stream buffering to make it fast. 01:48:35 (loop repeat (expt 2 20) do (print #xFE)) 01:48:38 I noticed clisp is a bit slow with I/O like that as well, a year or two ago 01:48:53 SBCL was much better 01:48:57 ah. 01:48:58 if you have a case for what you're doing, go complain on clisp-list 01:49:07 timetrap: how slow is really slow? 01:49:14 Nah. Just wondering ... 01:49:32 Real time: 136.33032 sec. 01:49:33 Run time: 135.96446 sec. 01:49:33 Space: 1409320984 Bytes 01:49:35 and make sure you compile with clisp, it's not doing it by default 01:49:38 ah 01:49:55 That's pretty slow. IMO. 01:50:44 is (write-byte) better than (print #xFE)? 01:51:00 Or are they totally different? 01:51:09 they are different 01:51:11 why don't you try it and see for yourself? 01:51:20 I can. 01:51:33 But I wouldn't know why they were different. 01:51:43 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 01:52:00 then you should read the documentation for these two functions 01:52:16 ... 01:52:40 I was hoping for a little human interaction and explination. 01:54:49 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.30] has joined #lisp 01:55:17 the python code is more equivalent to (write-sequence (make-array (expt 2 20) :initial-element #xfe :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) 01:55:30 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-iatwvjwsvcqudtfo] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:55:35 stream) 01:56:03 o_0 01:56:12 Hmmmm ... 01:56:30 that is, it doesn't write stuff byte by byte, it creates a big string and writes that out 01:56:43 Yeah. I was just seeing that. 01:56:59 That would make a bit of a difference in I/O, methinks. 01:57:06 which would be especially relevant given you're using clisp, which doesn't compile by default, so each execution of that loop is proparly slow as hell 01:57:19 chug, chug, chug 01:57:37 (unless you're actually compiling that code) 01:58:22 but clisp has a somewhat small array-dimension-limit on 32-bit 01:58:30 Well taking the (loop for i ...) and replcing it with (loop repeat ...) shaved about 20 seconds off the runtime. 01:58:43 did you compile? 01:58:47 nope. 01:58:53 well, there you go 01:59:03 running it `clisp file.lsp` 01:59:10 there I go what? 01:59:17 > which would be especially relevant given you're using clisp, which doesn't compile by default, so each execution of that loop is proparly slow as hell 01:59:23 > (unless you're actually compiling that code) 01:59:27 compile first, and see the difference 01:59:39 timetrap: put (compile 'filler) in your code 02:00:01 or run it with clisp -c file.lsp 02:00:02 stassats: so I'm compiling the function? 02:00:09 or do clisp -c file.lisp, or (load (compile-file "file")) 02:00:22 stassats: inside the interperated code? 02:01:03 *timetrap* wasn't aware of this kick ass compile what you feel like feature. 02:01:15 *timetrap* cause he's a newb. 02:02:20 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:23 holy ... yeah. 02:02:30 that helped A LOT. 02:02:31 -!- REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:02:35 using write-sequence is faster on clisp, but it's limited to 16 MB at once 02:02:45 (compile 'filer) 02:02:57 Okay, so let me see ... 02:03:08 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.86.188.183] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:03:44 python creates byte code just before runtime, then executes the bytecode (by default) 02:04:02 but lisp, only compiles what you tell it to. 02:04:12 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 02:04:13 right? 02:04:16 no 02:04:20 damn. 02:04:21 clisp 02:04:31 okay. 02:04:34 sbcl? 02:04:37 sbcl, for example, compile by default unless you tell it not to 02:05:01 so what happens to the (compile 'filer) in sbcl? 02:05:12 ignored? 02:05:20 or run again anyway. 02:05:54 yes 02:06:00 yes? 02:06:02 oh, the former 02:06:11 ah. Not the latter? 02:06:14 ;-) 02:06:17 it doesn't keep the source representation.. 02:06:24 okay. 02:06:52 so clisp is better for interactive things and sbcl better for running production code? 02:07:06 *nyef* wouldn't use clisp for interactive things either. 02:07:08 In general that is. 02:08:15 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:51 So with clisp I can just `clisp lisp.lsp` but with sbcl I need to start it and then (load #p"lisp.lsp") right? 02:08:52 it depends on more factors, for example, clisp is smaller and has lower memory footprint and is ported to more platforms 02:09:06 sbcl --load file.lisp 02:09:14 stassats: thanks. 02:09:54 there it is. 02:10:09 That should really be in the --help dialog. 02:10:25 it is in the man page though. 02:10:37 timetrap: it's an uncommonly used option. 02:10:47 Xach: really? 02:11:12 Xach: what's the common way to do it? 02:11:17 it's better to use sbcl from within slime 02:11:49 "better" as in easier? or "better" as in it works differently (hence better). 02:12:03 timetrap: interactive definition and invocation of functions. 02:12:10 easier and more pleasant 02:12:35 Xach: ah, so tab completion like clisp. Without clisp. 02:12:57 that's right, it includes tab completion 02:13:03 cool 02:13:12 minion: slime? 02:13:12 Thanks for your help everyone. 02:13:13 slime: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/slime 02:13:18 Is there a C language channel on Freenode? 02:13:20 i've never tried the tab completion yet 02:13:46 Guthur: really? 02:13:46 i've probably only used about 5% of slime 02:13:46 Trying to expand my horz from python. 02:13:54 A little off put by odd asdf messages. 02:13:55 *stassats* uses tab completion instead of reading documentation 02:14:00 But I'll get it. 02:14:04 -!- addled [i=51269b15@gateway/web/freenode/x-fnxkwhmrzpuftizu] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 02:14:07 stassats: i must check i have it turned on 02:14:37 stassats: I use tab completion in ipython like a crazy man. 02:14:51 Thanks again. 02:14:54 -!- timetrap [n=jkern@pool-108-2-110-22.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 02:15:28 tab completion may be slow for the stuff you know, but when you don't know it's really great, especially fuzzy completion 02:16:12 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.30] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:16:48 i have an object that is stored in a buffer at an arbitrary location, do you think storing the name of that buffer and the offset in a cons is a little obfuscated... 02:17:06 stassats: i have been forced to read CLHS instead hehe 02:17:41 well, clhs only describes CL, but not libraries and implementation internals 02:17:56 Guthur: is that an emacs question? 02:18:14 stassats no a lispy question 02:18:35 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h69n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715083437]"] 02:19:01 buffer = sequential storage 02:19:51 its either that way or 2 class slots 02:20:16 i'd prefer a separate class 02:20:32 or a structure, if you like them 02:20:43 eh, oh the buffer is a separate class 02:20:50 struct even 02:21:24 but the object will need know where it is stored and the base index 02:22:07 if the buffer is a separate class, why do you need a name for your marker? 02:22:32 i was going to store multiple buffers in a hash table 02:22:53 oh an index and array would be just as good actually 02:23:10 hehe maybe went a little hash crazy 02:24:28 i'll change that actually, i don't think i'll have a need for hashing, 02:25:18 envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 02:26:32 mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:37 so it is an array of buffers now, i'll set it up with the cons for now... 02:37:44 the reason for the complexity is the fact the buffer will be sent to GPU in its entirety, and then i will want to index into the buffer for rendering the individual objects 02:40:52 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["restart"] 02:41:07 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:43:17 ace4016 [n=dante401@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:45:11 wmannis [n=wmannis@76.201.148.87] has joined #lisp 02:47:03 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:49:24 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-24-98-49-5.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:50:18 -!- segoe [i=3e164621@gateway/web/freenode/x-oobishxzhsphfjyp] has quit ["Page closed"] 02:52:46 Pete_R [n=quassel@78.97.98.73] has joined #lisp 02:56:49 Hi people! How do i get pass the warning: "Asserted type UNSIGNED-BYTE conflicts with derived type (VALUES (INTEGER -1 -1) &OPTIONAL)" ? 02:57:24 post your code 02:57:27 lisppaste: url? 02:57:28 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 02:58:03 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:47 zarkone [n=zarkone@95.190.159.127] has joined #lisp 02:59:12 Pete_R: it means that somewhere you've declared the function to be returning one type, but SBCL can see you're actually returning something different 03:00:18 Krystof: "social web, linked data, this is the FUTURE, it has reached a TIPPING POINT, we are on the road to DATA MASHUP WEB 3.0" <-- I like your description of wob 2.0 03:00:27 is there a way to determine if something is a struct or class? 03:00:29 and you don't need to declare it explicitly 03:01:32 (typep object 'standard-object) 03:01:48 structure-object for structures 03:02:04 mathrick: Is there a way to make a cast? 03:02:36 no, because it's something different 03:02:48 Pete_R: normally types are optional 03:02:49 why didn't you paste your code? you've made some mistake in it, by my telepathy is weak 03:02:58 s/by/but/ 03:03:19 Pete_R: that is, if you don't declare the types explicitly, Lisp will assume to be "whatever" 03:03:25 *them 03:04:11 sbcl will assume implicitly too 03:04:25 (defun foo (x) (char x x)) for example 03:04:33 stassats: cheers 03:04:47 Pete_R pasted "Type warning" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91488 03:06:54 well, get_feature always returns -1 03:07:11 but that's not lisp, that's C you've pasted 03:07:51 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 03:08:01 stassats: what do you mean? (blush) 03:08:31 RETURN in that case returns only from DO 03:08:43 yes 03:09:09 once it finds the feature equal with the one provided 03:09:25 it returns the index of it 03:09:41 from do, but do's value is never used 03:10:02 why? 03:10:14 because you stuck -1 after it 03:10:54 well, i've put a (return -1) instead 03:11:00 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:01 but got another warning 03:11:04 :| 03:11:05 the function get_feature should look (position feature (nth address *frame-heap*) :test #'equal #:key #' frame-element-feature) 03:11:29 now, that's lisp 03:11:44 -!- zarkone [n=zarkone@95.190.159.127] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:12:33 stassats: I bow before you master! Thank you! i was searching for that function a lot ! 03:12:38 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:13:12 Has anyone here ever had dealings with PSL (Portable Standard Lisp)? 03:13:34 returning -1 is a bad idea, we have NIL for that 03:14:33 but that are basics, practical common lisp should enlighten you 03:16:21 stassats: I'm reading it, but i'm kinda time pressed :| 03:19:00 -!- mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:19:11 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357050.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:19:38 -!- knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:20:43 mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:55 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 03:22:02 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 03:24:39 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 03:26:18 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has joined #lisp 03:27:25 -!- wmannis [n=wmannis@76.201.148.87] has quit [] 03:29:10 Raptelan [n=Raptelan@209.40.204.178] has joined #lisp 03:32:05 how do i execute a list of lisp forms? 03:32:31 well, EVAL, but be warned 03:32:38 *_3b* guessed PROGN 03:33:32 retupmoca [n=retupmoc@adsl-76-235-169-202.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:20 I read from a file something like query code and i want to just invoke those forms without looping through the list with apply 03:34:59 skv [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:12 EVAL should work 03:35:46 thanks again! :) 03:37:06 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:41:06 -!- shrughes [n=shrughes@c-76-24-223-193.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:41:54 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:26 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:49:41 -!- eldragon [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:50:32 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cbuniocunjrzhwuk] has joined #lisp 03:51:16 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-13-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:51:34 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-109-110.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:57 redcaptain [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 03:52:14 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["masticate to dominate"] 03:53:09 troussan [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:35 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:32 -!- skv [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:57:38 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:15 -!- Guest48442 [n=user@72.14.228.129] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:59:28 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-67-109-95.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:00 Guest48442 [n=user@72.14.228.137] has joined #lisp 04:00:56 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:18 mcspiff [n=user@142.68.79.57] has joined #lisp 04:03:04 bpr [n=user@cpe-72-231-172-136.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:19 is anyone familiar with the sort of error visible here: 04:03:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/91491 04:03:28 I've been tangling w/it for a little bit. It seems to only come up 04:03:28 occasionally. I'm not familiar w/what frames 0 and 1 are. 04:03:35 I was hoping someone w/more sbcl experience would have some tips 04:03:35 I often have functions defined like the following: (let ((local-state (...))) (defun foo () ...)). I'm considering writing a macro to capture this pattern, but before I do, is there a standard way to do this type thing? 04:04:16 here's the code for the train function: http://paste.lisp.org/display/91492 04:04:17 bpr: they're profiler's internals 04:04:27 mcspiff: why not use a special variable 04:04:34 hrm 04:05:06 adeht: by defvaring? 04:05:14 yes 04:05:35 adeht: Well, I tend to avoid globals 04:05:41 bpr: does your function work without profiling? 04:05:45 does anyone know a lisp implementation of a cyk parser? 04:06:04 or at least some hints on implementing it :) 04:06:07 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:06:27 mcspiff: can you elaborate? 04:06:42 stassats: I'm verifying that right now. I've made a bunch of changes and i've been running it through the profiler for some time now 04:07:01 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-77-238.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:07:11 there's this "global variables are bad" and some people believe in it 04:07:28 stassats: since the issue only happens occasionally i'll have to run it for a bit before I can be reasonably sure 04:08:28 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-109-110.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:08:32 stassats: yeah, it seems to be a profiling issue. tyvm 04:09:00 what profiler are you using? 04:09:11 the stock sb-profile 04:09:24 not the statistical profiler (ie. sb-sprof) 04:09:25 stupid question, i see the backtrace 04:10:13 I try to limit the scope of my variables. If they're just needed in one function, I limit them as such when possible. 04:11:31 mcspiff: that impairs debugging.. usually when I want something like that (which isn't often at all) it makes more sense to have a special variable then a toplevel let 04:12:00 with that reasoning you can have everything as local functions inside a big one 04:12:12 stassats: you never use flet? 04:12:27 i use, but i'm not obsessed with it 04:13:22 stassats: And I'm not obsessed with top level lets either, but I find they have their place. 04:14:14 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 04:16:19 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 04:17:03 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-C2F2E195.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 04:23:51 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-232-46.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 04:24:49 -!- marioxcc [n=user@201.132.134.187] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:24:53 -!- SharkBrain [n=gerard@210.48.104.34] has quit ["leaving"] 04:25:46 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:31:15 -!- troussan [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:33:53 Shamiq [n=Adium@24-155-205-80.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:53 hey guys -- i've got an assoc-list in the form of ((letter . count)) -- any thoughts on how i should sort it by count? 04:35:12 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 04:35:12 (sort list #'> :key #'cdr) 04:35:13 <_3b> :key 'cdr ? 04:35:13 (setf list (sort list #'< :key #'cdr)) 04:35:29 *stassats* wins 04:35:37 heheh - -thanks :D 04:35:46 that's destructive, right? 04:35:50 right 04:36:12 schweet -- looking online, i saw something oodles more complicated 04:36:13 but you need to use the result of it 04:37:00 also, many other functions on sequences have :key, :test, etc. keywords 04:37:41 yea, i just wish there was a way of getting my natural language to become lisp functions 04:37:50 (other than asking here) 04:37:59 practice, practice, practice 04:41:29 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-109-166.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:41:58 Good morning! 04:42:14 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 04:43:34 morning beach 04:44:46 Hey slyrus. What's up? 04:45:05 work mostly :( 04:45:16 Bummer! 04:45:28 konr [n=konrad@201.82.131.153] has joined #lisp 04:46:19 how would i use READ within maplist? 04:46:37 straightforward 04:46:42 Pete_R: That depends a lot on what you want to do. 04:47:46 beach: I have a list with lines of query code and i want to read those lines as lisp forms to inkove them 04:49:00 Pete_R: That doesn't make sense. If you already have a list, you don't have to read it. And what do you mean by "invoking a line". 04:49:40 Pete_R: Do you have a file on disk somewhere? 04:50:01 Pete_R: And how does maplist come into the picture? 04:50:17 beach: each line has the format proc-name arg1 arg1...argn 04:50:21 nyef: right, almost all the vector VOPs need fixing :| 04:50:33 where proc-name is a function in my code 04:50:52 Pete_R: OK, we don't call that "invoke" but "evaluate" 04:51:07 Pete_R: You "invoke" a function, but you "evaluate" an expression. 04:51:14 beach: OK, bad :) 04:51:27 Pete_R: So, those are lines in a file, and there are no parentheses? 04:51:39 beach: exactly 04:52:14 Pete_R: The easiest thing would probably be to read each line, add the parentheses, and call eval on the result. 04:52:27 Pete_R: What is the form of the args? 04:52:39 Pete_R: Can they be arbitrary Lisp expressions? 04:53:02 beach: usualy integers and strings 04:53:26 Then you might get away with not using eval, and just use apply of the function name on the list of the arguments. 04:53:29 beach: e.g. push_cell 0 04:54:02 That is what i do, but isn't this slow? 04:54:35 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:54:36 Pete_R: So now you added another constraint that it has to be fast? 04:54:42 Pete_R: slower than eval? 04:54:46 Pete_R: What makes you think it is slow? 04:55:04 or (apply #'funcall ...) 04:55:30 stassats: Why? 04:55:31 beach: because that's the way an interpreter goes 04:55:45 beach: it looks nice! 04:56:32 Pete_R: Well, most Lisp systems are compiled, but if you have source code in a file, you have to call the evaluator somehow, unless you are going to do it many times of course, in which case you want to call the compiler once. 04:57:08 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:38 Pete_R: Are those function calles going to be made once or several times? 04:58:16 -!- konr1 [n=konrad@201.82.95.251] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:59:19 -!- lpolzer__ [n=sky@dslb-088-073-193-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:59:24 beach: it depends on the query. I may have a file with a 1000 lines of such function calls 04:59:59 Osaka [n=Alien@fl-71-3-65-161.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:03 Pete_R: Why do you have such files? 05:00:23 Pete_R: Also, you would probably be better off with an interpreter than with a compiler. 05:02:17 Pete_R: But if you use apply, you won't compile it; just call the function on the list of arguments. 05:03:14 beach: Long story short - I'm building an OSF unifier as a project for one of my faculty courses 05:03:52 skv [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:04 beach: and I thought Lisp would be a nice way to do it. Also to learn :) 05:05:00 Pete_R: I agree with that, but that still doesn't explain why you stuck those things in a file. You can keep them in memory. 05:05:41 Pete_R: And it also doesn't explain why you thought things would be interpreted, nor why you thought an interpreter would be slower than some other method. 05:07:24 beach: because that file is the input :) it is like a query 05:07:57 function implementations are kept in memory 05:08:03 Pete_R: OK, then just read each line, look up the function from the name, apply it to the list of arguments. 05:08:28 No interpreter involved. 05:08:39 beach: thanks :) 05:08:45 No problem. 05:09:28 -!- mooglenorph [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:10:15 beach: on an unrelated topic - do you code lisp at work or just for fun? (no offense intended) 05:10:58 because there are a lot of you great guys here but I haven't heard of a lisp project in a while :) 05:11:33 bah -- can't figure out why this is broken... 05:11:37 Shamiq pasted "Supposed to count the number of times an element appears in a list..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91494 05:11:44 Pete_R: I am a university professor, and some of our courses use Lisp, so I do some work-related Lisp coding. 05:12:38 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-132-170.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:12:50 beach: nice :) wish I was your student :D 05:13:15 Pete_R: Thanks! 05:13:19 <_3b> Shamiq: what is that IF supposed to return? 05:13:59 _3b: checks for existence of an element in the dot-pars list -- so just true or false 05:14:08 and why copy-list z.. 05:14:25 <_3b> Shamiq: it is supposed tor eturn true or false? 05:14:32 _3b: yea 05:14:43 lpolzer__ [n=sky@dslb-088-073-236-209.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:50 <_3b> well, incf and cons will both always return something true... 05:14:52 Shamiq: that doesn't make sense 05:14:58 Shamiq: But then, that true or false is going to be assigned to dot-pairs. 05:15:07 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:15:14 3b: dot-pairs is a list, not intended as a boolean 05:15:46 <_3b> adeht: right, i'm suggesting it doesn't return what he thinks it does, and even if it did, that would be the wrong thing 05:16:04 but what does that have to do with true or false? 05:16:23 he either returns the occurrence count or the new list 05:16:42 <_3b> adeht: i asked what he intended it to return, he said 'true or false' 05:17:07 the test-form for the if is the assoc, right? if the assoc is true, then i increment the dot pair, else i add it 05:17:11 3b: ah, didn't see those lines :/.. it's 07:15.. should go to sleep :) 05:17:24 Well, off to work I go. Thank you all for helping me! Have a nice whatever is now on your time-zone :) 05:17:25 <_3b> Shamiq: i meant the entire IF statement, not the test 05:17:34 -!- Pete_R [n=quassel@78.97.98.73] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:18:10 son of a... 05:18:16 i think i see it. 05:18:19 one sec 05:18:50 note also that there's ACONS 05:19:12 <_3b> Shamiq: you might be better using a simpler iteration construct like dolist, and using a LET to bind the var into which you accumulate results 05:19:52 _3b: And you might want to use a hash table if you list has a large number of elements. 05:19:58 *_3b* would probably use a hash table or plist there also 05:20:11 -!- Nshag [i=user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-128-210.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:20:17 <_3b> right 05:20:41 i don't have to worry about large number of elements 05:21:42 <_3b> getf and gethash both accessors and let you specify a default, so you can call incf on them directly with a default of 0 instead of using the IF 05:22:21 -!- mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:22:47 <_3b> though i guess if you need them sorted, those might be counterproductive 05:30:37 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@93-142-137-121.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:31:20 c|mell [n=cmell@93-142-166-147.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 05:33:27 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 05:36:34 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:40:52 hm 05:42:21 Shamiq pasted "Occurrences -- but dolist'd" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91496 05:42:42 that's always returning nil 05:42:49 am i consing incorrectly? 05:43:05 consing doesn't affect dot-pairs 05:43:10 yea, i am 05:43:16 so how should i accumulate 05:43:20 you need PUSH 05:43:39 (push (cons list 1) dot-pairs) 05:43:44 ? 05:43:48 right 05:43:59 <_3b> list is an odd name for that variable though 05:44:18 and you'd rather save the result of the first assoc 05:44:51 stassats: how would i do that? 05:45:14 that's a question i don't expect: with a let! 05:45:45 ah...but but... 05:46:00 i've been staring at code too long today 05:46:40 and next time annotate your previous pastes 05:47:57 even though it's a fairly complete rewrite? okay. 05:48:07 yes 05:51:03 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:52:25 thanks all 05:53:04 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 05:54:05 Kolyan [n=nartamon@93-81-190-7.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:55:11 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-67-109-95.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:55:31 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 05:56:40 Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:57:36 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:57:43 -!- Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 06:08:07 -!- rrice [n=rrice@adsl-99-164-45-53.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:11:38 -!- ASau` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["off"] 06:12:07 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-201-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:17:03 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 06:17:27 *slyrus* installs a new version of the mac os developer tools. wonders if sbcl still builds... 06:18:54 poet [n=poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 06:22:01 redblue [i=star@ppp021.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:22:38 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@pool-74-96-33-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:24:00 Osaka_ [n=Alien@fl-71-3-65-161.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:22 -!- Osaka_ is now known as beetle 06:25:31 -!- beetle [n=Alien@fl-71-3-65-161.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:26:22 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d066607.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:24 good morning 06:29:19 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@117.192.128.138] has joined #lisp 06:30:25 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:35:20 saikatc [n=saikatc@pool-74-96-33-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:41 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 06:36:02 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 06:36:25 rkirti [n=oespirit@203.199.213.3] has joined #lisp 06:38:20 how do you check if one list is a member of another... for eg.something like (member '(a b c) '(a b '(a b c))) 06:39:03 <_3b> rkirti: the same list, or just one that looks like it? 06:39:39 _3b: "the one that looks like it" as in ? 06:39:40 <_3b> rkirti: and '(a b '(a b c)) might not mean what you think it does 06:40:04 <_3b> rkirti: as in something that might work in your example if it didn't have extra ' 06:40:35 _3b: so what is the correct way out ? 06:41:25 -!- poet [n=poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [] 06:41:29 <_3b> rkirti: lets start with the ' part... '(a b c) is read as (quote (a b c)) 06:41:45 <_3b> quote returns the list passed as an argument, in this case (a b c) 06:42:12 <_3b> '(a b '(a b c)) reads as (quote (a b (quote (a b c)))) 06:42:27 -!- Osaka [n=Alien@fl-71-3-65-161.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:42:37 <_3b> when that is evaluated, it returns the argument, in this case the list (a b (quote (a b c))) 06:42:59 <_3b> so first there is the question fo thether that is what you meant or not 06:43:05 <_3b> *of whether 06:43:06 _3b: yes 06:43:27 _3b: ok. that is what I want. in my case...if I have a list of variables (a b c) which returns me "(not a)" (I am using 06:43:38 double quotes to indicate the literal meaning..) 06:43:50 <_3b> so you want to look for a list with the symbol QUOTE in the car ? 06:44:08 so now I need to check if "(not a)" is a member of (a b (not a)) 06:44:23 <_3b> hmm, now you say a list of variables 06:44:32 <_3b> you can't make a list of 'variables' 06:44:47 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.194.245] has joined #lisp 06:45:01 _3b: I know how to use for the entire list (I am doing more or less the same thing as mapcar) . Everything else is 06:45:04 <_3b> you can either make lists of symbols, or values (actually symbols are just a special case of values) 06:45:28 well set...I just cant implement this check.. or that matter any sublist check 06:46:12 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 06:46:29 *_3b* is confused, so i'll just make a random guess and suggest you want to pass :test 'equal to MEMBER 06:47:39 _3b: sorry for not being clear enough. maybe this might help me tell you what I am trying to do - http://pastebin.com/d2850d775 06:48:20 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:44 _3b: chek-comp is obviously incorrect at line 6. but I cant figure out what is the right way 06:48:47 *chk-comp 06:49:18 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:50:33 <_3b> rkirti: the code is easier to read if you use full words for identifiers, check-complement, list, get-complement, etc 06:50:52 <_3b> also, you indentation could be more clear, and don't put ) on lines by themselves 06:51:28 _3b: I agree. I am sorry. I changed it to short words, because while testing I have to type them in manually in the clisp shell, and I cant see if clisp has any autocompletio n or readline based functions. :-/ 06:52:01 <_3b> and yeah, you probably want to use the :test argument to MEMBER 06:52:18 <_3b> you should try SLIME if you arent allergic to emacs 06:52:20 -!- mcspiff [n=user@142.68.79.57] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:53:31 -!- sp0_of [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:54:19 *rkirti* is a ViMmer 06:56:43 <_3b> many VIM users seem to find SLIME worth using anyway 06:57:21 <_3b> you should at least try one of the attempts at making something similar for vim though, working directly in repl is inefficient :) 06:57:22 _3b: Can I get a little more info on test..I have done things like (remove item list :test #'equal) but without really knowing whats hapenning. How do I use test standalone ? iirc, the : indicates optional,right ? 06:57:53 <_3b> : is just the package separator 06:58:24 <_3b> like if you say COMMON-LISP:MEMBER to fully specify the name of member 06:58:44 <_3b> if you don't specify a package, as in :TEST it uses the keyword package 06:59:02 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 06:59:14 <_3b> in this particular case, a symbol from the keyword package (:test) is bing used to name a keyword argument to a function 06:59:42 <_3b> (specifically MEMBER) 07:00:06 <_3b> clhs member 07:00:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_member.htm 07:00:43 <_3b> see that page for a description of how that particular function interprets the value of that particular keyword argument 07:00:55 -!- bpr [n=user@cpe-72-231-172-136.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 07:01:27 <_3b> (well, not that page exactly, but the one linked as 'function' on that page) 07:04:47 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:09:11 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.131.153] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:09:56 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 07:11:25 saikatc_ [n=saikatc@pool-74-96-33-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:25 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.95.154] has joined #lisp 07:13:47 reid08 [n=reid08@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 07:13:55 Why do I always get this whenever I "clbuild compile-implementation sbcl": fatal error encountered in SBCL pid XXXXX: can't load .core for different runtime, sorry 07:16:44 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 07:16:50 -!- reid08 [n=reid08@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:17:06 reid08 [n=reid08@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 07:19:03 sp0_of [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 07:22:44 envi_office2 [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 07:27:46 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@pool-74-96-33-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:27:46 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:27:46 -!- saikatc_ is now known as saikatc 07:28:47 ebzzry: SBCL_HOME bullshit. Which SBCL are you trying to bootstrap from? 07:29:51 lichtblau: Sources from sbcl.sf.net 07:30:19 lichtblau: Isn't clbuild supposed to handle that? 07:30:40 -!- cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:30:51 no, I mean, where is it installed? 07:31:14 -!- Shamiq [n=Adium@24-155-205-80.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has left #lisp 07:31:41 The one I'm using to build is located at /usr/local/bin/sbcl 07:32:43 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-98-204-67-114.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 07:33:11 lichtblau: Let me try that again 07:35:07 lichtblau: I tried the one that comes with my distro: /usr/bin/sbcl, but clbuild still complains of the same thing. 07:35:10 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:35:17 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:36:18 myst [n=myst@s1.les.gurtam.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:51 This is what happens: http://paste.lisp.org/display/91499 07:39:01 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-23-70.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:40:12 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:41:02 prxq [n=mommer@f051101061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:41:16 good morning 07:41:36 -!- envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:28 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:46:36 hi lispers, yesterday I tried (make-array 1000000000 :element-type 'bit) in SBCL and it responded that 1000000000 is not of type (OR (MOD 536870911) CONS NULL). this means it's impossible to make array with more than 536870910 bits (~64 MB)? 07:48:53 <_3b> myst: array indices are fixnums, so that limits maximum array size 07:50:47 <_3b> you can make larger arrays on 64bit sbcl 07:52:27 -!- ``Erik [n=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:53:10 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp021.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:54:17 _3b: thanks 07:55:16 it sad 07:56:13 ASau` [n=user@77.246.231.14] has joined #lisp 07:56:18 -!- rkirti [n=oespirit@203.199.213.3] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:57:13 rkirti [n=oespirit@203.199.213.3] has joined #lisp 08:01:16 lichtblau: any hints? 08:02:43 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:03:34 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@117.192.128.138] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:05:34 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:07:10 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:10:01 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:10:15 good morning 08:15:20 ! (Good Morning everyone!) 08:16:32 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:24:56 addled [i=51269b15@gateway/web/freenode/x-nqqyukdktsgqaukv] has joined #lisp 08:26:20 -!- sp0_of [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:27:58 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:28:11 (morning 'good) 08:28:37 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:30:06 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:30:24 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:32:25 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:36:59 angerman [n=angerman@d096.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:33 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:41:08 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:41:19 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@93-142-166-147.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:42:15 redblue [i=star@ppp016.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 08:43:48 Has anyone used SLIME in conjunction with modal-mode.el or vimpulse? 08:43:55 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 08:44:22 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:44:44 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has joined #lisp 08:44:49 ebzzry, the sbcl executable takes a --core option .. the SBCL_HOME environment variable might be messing things up for you .. http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Initialization-Files.html#Initialization-Files 08:44:53 good morning everybody .) 08:44:55 free_thinker [n=willijar@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 08:45:01 ebzzry, http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Runtime-Options.html#Runtime-Options 08:45:03 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 08:46:35 lnostdal: I noticed that in the clbuild script, in line 1731, there is SBCL_HOME=. 08:47:31 lnostdal: What I'm getting is "can't load .core for different runtime, sorry", not "can't find ..." 08:48:18 Dodek_ [n=dodek@sandbox.dbc.wroc.pl] has joined #lisp 08:48:25 yeah, which core is it trying to load? .. where is it? .. why does it try to load it? .. 08:50:04 when you type sbcl and hit enter in your terminal it loads the right core (given that sbcl starts and you end up in the REPL) 08:50:33 lnostdal: Invoking sbcl, solo, works. I'm using the one for Debian, which is 1.0.25. 08:50:42 i'm not sure what the clbuild script does, but maybe it checks if there is a more local core available and loads that automatically if found? 08:51:10 lnostdal: Regarding clbuild, I'm using a fresh 'darcs get' 08:52:53 j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has joined #lisp 08:54:11 In SBCL, which API should I use to save a double-float array in binary form? I'm currently using sb-impl::buffer-output 08:55:13 borism_ [n=boris@213-35-235-152-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 08:56:17 plage [n=user@laptop-147-210-129-138.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:56:20 Good morning! 08:57:28 howdy ho! 08:57:56 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:59:34 -!- redcaptain [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:00:14 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:00:45 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:01:07 cupe [n=cupe@213.133.102.28] has joined #lisp 09:01:08 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 09:01:41 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:01:41 -!- borism [n=boris@213-35-234-234-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:02:17 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 09:02:19 levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-12-127.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:04:57 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:06:48 -!- Dodek_ [n=dodek@sandbox.dbc.wroc.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:07:15 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 09:13:36 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:13:48 eaumontab [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 09:14:13 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:14:28 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 09:17:41 <_deepfire> Package export lists hurt mergeability of changesets of Lisp code. 09:18:40 <_deepfire> Esp. for large export lists, where you tend to coalesce several symbols into one line. 09:19:19 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.114.161] has joined #lisp 09:19:49 <_deepfire> Which means that this coalescing is suddenly less attractive. 09:24:05 i've stopped using export lists altogether .. i just export everything (do-symbols + export) and use do-external-symbols + shadowing-import at the "downstream" packages .. heh 09:24:55 ..a conflict is solved once in the "superpackage" .. then sub-packages "inherit" the same resolved conflict 09:25:39 <_deepfire> lnostdal, this makes automatic documentation generation less automatic; also hurts human readers.. 09:26:01 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:26:10 yup, can't really use external vs. internal symbols to determine what the user API is 09:27:29 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:30:24 very brute force i guess, but faster and since shadowing-import is used i never have to resolve conflicts before i "really need to" .. heh 09:32:01 -!- plage [n=user@laptop-147-210-129-138.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:38:14 *p_l* sometimes uses manual exporting near the symbol definition 09:38:38 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:41:40 hello lispers 09:41:50 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-188-098-198-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:01 i have a challenge 09:42:38 *Adlai* has a solution, let's see if they match 09:42:59 i need do convert a multidimensional array into a list of lists (of lists (of lists ...)) 09:43:14 really? Are you sure you need that? 09:43:20 ok, no 09:43:24 i want it 09:44:02 i need it for 2 and 3, and maybe even 4 dimenions in the future 09:44:28 i wondered if there was some nice way of doing it without writing 3 ugly functions 09:44:50 printing, cutting the first few characters, and reading doesn't count :) 09:45:04 could do manual indexing otherwise? 09:45:07 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 09:45:26 i+j*I+k*J+... 09:48:05 tic: what do you mean by that? i don't see how flattening the array can help 09:48:09 -!- eaumontab [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:48:43 cupe, just providing an alternate view. sometimes people ask for things they don't want. :-) if not, just ignore my question/advice 09:48:50 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 09:50:38 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.114.161] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:52:58 i need the structure preserved, but i want to operate on it with map*, reduce, transpose, ... 09:54:36 ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-9-161.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:55:29 cupe: why do you have arrays in the first place? 09:59:27 i do some kind of data visualization of data i get from calling a simulation that happens to output arrays. i can't change that since it's the university's holy simulation program (and maybe for speed reasons) 09:59:43 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:00:24 <_deepfire> cupe, maybe if you didn't formulate your problem as a challenge, you'd have more sympathy from people 10:01:02 cupe: and btw, functions are ugly only if you make them so. 10:01:48 eaumontab [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 10:01:52 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:01:55 _deepfire: ok sorry. consider it a friendly question :) 10:02:07 <_deepfire> cupe, /I/ don't care 10:03:17 morning 10:03:56 jdz: 3 functions, containing 2, 3, or 4 nested LOOPS with COLLECT and otherwise looking the same, don't sound particularly elegant to me 10:04:01 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.114.161] has joined #lisp 10:04:16 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-45-228.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:04:23 maus [n=maus@123.20.0.97] has joined #lisp 10:04:38 Good afternoon! 10:04:44 cupe: then write an elegant version that fits your elegance criteria 10:05:04 or a macro 10:05:09 cupe: ever heard of recursion/ 10:05:11 ? 10:05:19 w00t :) 10:07:08 myst: a single macro won't work since the number of dimensions is only known at runtime. generating all those possible functions with a macro would work, though... 10:07:28 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:09:26 Adlai pasted "array->list" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91501 10:10:27 cupe: http://google.com/search?q=recursion 10:11:00 sp0_of [n=spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 10:11:03 Adlai: thanks a lot 10:11:29 cupe, do you understand how it works? 10:12:21 reading... 10:12:36 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-188-098-198-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:13:10 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-30-244.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:15:37 yep, thanks 10:15:51 try tracing it if you're confused 10:17:02 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 10:19:49 Adlai annotated #91501 "Trace of execution" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91501#1 10:19:55 Adlai: basically it's depth-first search... i should have been able to do that :) 10:20:35 BrianRice`_ [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:52 cupe: Why not get a matrix library and use that? 10:22:10 It's not only the right thing, you'll get matrix operations like transpose for free. 10:22:55 <_deepfire> Too bad you cannot (setf array-displacement). 10:24:11 <_deepfire> You'd then be able to collect inner array elements using (coerce # 'list), which would be loads faster. 10:24:15 tcr: the arrays do not contain numbers 10:26:01 <_deepfire> Should be a CLtL3 item! 10:26:11 _deepfire: too bad coerce doesn't do all the work 10:26:33 <_deepfire> Heh. 10:27:28 Anyone on a Win32 machine want to test whether a CL + GTK + 3D engine demo works on more than just my machine? 10:31:48 -!- Jafet is now known as aefjt 10:32:44 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:18 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:35:11 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:35:51 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:35:53 -!- BrianRice`_ is now known as BrianRice 10:37:36 -!- envi_office2 [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:37:51 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has left #lisp 10:38:03 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 10:39:10 aerique, I'd like to 10:39:49 aerique, I have winxp nearby 10:40:20 akamaus: Here's the url but either e-mail or msg me your problems because they probably won't be interesting for this channel: http://www.xs4all.nl/~euqirea/DUMP/fractal-explorer-0.1c.zip 10:42:50 aerique, does it need some third party libraries like gtk to be installed? 10:43:21 akamaus: no it shouldn't 10:46:24 -!- rkirti [n=oespirit@203.199.213.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:48:19 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 10:48:22 aerique: are you doing 3d fractals with cl-opengl? 10:50:30 cupe: no with Ogre but don't expect anything fancy it's just a demo / experiment for using cl, gtk and ogre. 10:53:51 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 10:54:28 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:46 jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-44-67.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:02:06 Is there a continue function in CL? 11:02:15 what would it do? 11:02:23 jtza8, you mean like C's continue keyword in loops? 11:02:27 select the continue restart? 11:02:30 Yep 11:02:38 Adlai: <- 11:02:38 aerique: with some modifications, I'm now missing only one library to run your previous fractal-explorer 11:02:40 -!- tufflax [n=tufflax@1-1-8-11a.ang.sth.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:02:43 like, you know, the actual cl:continue function which actually exists? 11:03:04 Xof: Nope, but it's hard to put it another way. 11:03:05 http://l1sp.org/cl/continue 11:03:14 jtza8, no, there isn't. 11:03:19 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:03:29 there is no single loop in Lisp, well, except for LOOP. 11:03:33 p_l: the non-windows one? 11:03:42 p_l: which version? 11:03:42 Ok, well thanks. 11:03:44 jtza8: well, asking the question "is there a continue function in CL" when a trivial lookup would have told you "yes" is a bit of a silly thing to ask, no? 11:03:50 jtza8, your question doesn't make sense. 11:04:05 jtza8, tell us what you're trying to achieve instead. a piece of code would be nice. 11:04:16 -!- j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 11:04:46 Am... sorry Xof tic, I was reffering to the continue keyword as found in other languages. 11:04:49 aerique: 0.1b 11:04:59 I'm missing 32bit libXaw still 11:05:20 I know there's a continue function. 11:05:21 jtza8, so again, tell us what you're trying to achieve, and please give us a bit of code that shows us where you want to use "continue". 11:05:31 Ok 11:05:33 http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 11:05:44 Or a one-liner? 11:05:47 jtza8, you can get the same effect using when/unless keywords in LOOP 11:06:09 or at least, that'll work in teh simple case 11:06:13 jtza8, or a two-liner. or a five-liner. give us the code you're struggling with, where you believe you need "continue". 11:06:37 just write the code as if continue would have existed, and we can point out how to solve the problem. 11:07:03 (loop for i from 0 to 5 initially (continue) do (print i) 11:07:10 Would print... 11:07:25 The numbers one to 5 11:07:28 (loop for i from 1 to 5 do (foo i)) maybe? 11:07:32 jtza8, if this existed, it wouldn't be a function, it'd be a LOOP keyword 11:07:57 jtza8, better example, please! :-) 11:08:05 Ok ok... 11:08:14 (of something you are /actually/ doing.) 11:08:33 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:09 jtza8 pasted "The continue keyword" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91504 11:09:31 That is a snippit from actual code. 11:09:34 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:10:05 As you see, initially the "interval" is [x,x]. 11:10:21 jtza8, if you don't care too much for portability, SBCL and CCL (and possibly others too) use the same LOOP implementation, which allows definition of new loop paths. 11:11:10 Oh well, this isn't much of a muchness, I'll just keep things the way they are. 11:11:15 rkirti [n=oespirit@203.199.213.3] has joined #lisp 11:11:42 I basically just was curious. 11:11:44 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 11:12:20 Thanks, anyhow. 11:12:21 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:13:19 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has joined #lisp 11:20:43 jtza8: I'd actually not use LOOP there but DOLIST 11:21:18 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:21:42 jtza8: I'd put the computation in a local function and extract the first iteration out of the loop 11:22:19 Makes sense. 11:22:45 Or if you insist on it, you can continue from within a DOLIST loop 11:23:33 (dolist (point points) (unless interval (setq interval ...) (go :continue)) ... :continue) 11:24:24 you can put a loop body in a block and return from it to continue 11:27:48 *hefner* forgot about the nifty implicit tagbody 11:28:17 I wonder if a "modern" language would give you that :) 11:30:17 I often want to continue from within COND clauses, where "continue" means to jump to the next clause 11:30:45 sounds like fun 11:30:52 (cond ((foop) (some-computation (when (barp) (give-up)))) ((quuxp) ...)) 11:31:24 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-232-46.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:27 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B6C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:57 hm you actually could make COND expand to a tagbody 11:32:48 (cond ((foop) (some-computation (when (barp) (go :next-clause)))) :next-clause ((quuxp) ...))) 11:33:41 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:34:04 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 11:34:59 tcr: why not cond inside a tagbody and allow arbitrary jumps? 11:35:09 ohoi hoi 11:35:26 lharc: Because it won't work 11:35:36 lharc: tags in TAGBODY may only appear directly in the body 11:35:40 tcr: do :next-clause works? 11:35:59 in tcr:cond yes! 11:36:04 billstclair [n=billstcl@dsl-205-231-25-11.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:22 :) my suggestion was an general solution to your tcr:cond 11:36:43 See above I first suggested a deep version of tagbody -- but it's ill-conceived 11:43:13 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:45:25 hefner pasted "Continuable-cond" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91505 11:45:34 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host73.190-138-172.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:48:00 I wouldn't mind having that in alexandria, although I don't like the name because ECOND is like COND + (t (error ...)) and CCOND should be like ECOND but cerror 11:48:31 tcr: SCOND? 11:49:17 S? 11:49:27 Spaghetti 11:49:34 hah 11:49:38 hi. can i use the digit 2 in a package name? like xe2? 11:49:46 dto: sure 11:49:58 dto: packages are named by arbitrary strings 11:50:04 -!- aefjt [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:50:27 would anyone consider (xe2:thisfunc arg1 arg2...) ugle 11:50:28 ugly? 11:50:56 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-45-228.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:50:56 -!- angerman 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[i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-jkdqxjvgyqpjqrht] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 tic [n=tic@c83-249-193-189.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 Xantoz [n=hejhej@c-8cb7e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 qidush [n=qidush@c83-252-27-42.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1279405664.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 zeroish [n=zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 delYsid [n=user@debian/developer/mlang] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-238.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 rsynnott 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has joined #lisp 11:52:20 luis` [n=user@mail2.siscog.pt] has joined #lisp 11:52:20 fihi09`` [n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:20 codemonkeyx [n=codemonk@www.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:20 Bucciarati [n=buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:20 anekos [n=anekos@pl1218.nas924.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:52:20 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-67-170-39-104.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:20 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 11:52:32 jimi___hendrix [n=jimi_hen@c-98-221-33-74.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:38 angerman [n=angerman@d096.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 11:52:46 dto: for example :fiveam comes with a nickname :5am 11:52:50 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 11:52:50 -!- hdurer__ [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-mrctvzjsmzaprfaa] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- mikezor 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[calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-189-93.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- smaxarang [n=user@91.190.137.236] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@ram94-7-82-232-191-53.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- Xantoz [n=hejhej@c-8cb7e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- qidush [n=qidush@c83-252-27-42.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- prxq [n=mommer@f051101061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:50 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:52:52 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:53 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:53 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 11:52:53 metric [n=metric@209-20-86-67.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:55 qidush [n=qidush@c83-252-27-42.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:52:55 dto: I think xe2 may be a bad package-name for its terseness, but an okayish nickname 11:53:03 smaxarang [n=user@91.190.137.236] has joined #lisp 11:53:03 Wombatzus [n=user@216.31.242.4] has joined #lisp 11:53:04 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-189-93.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 11:53:05 delYsid [n=user@84.115.136.207] has joined #lisp 11:53:07 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 11:53:17 tcr: may use xe2 as the nick, yeah, and xiomacs-engine-2 as the real name 11:53:21 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 11:53:43 manituuuu [n=as@orwell.fiit.stuba.sk] has joined #lisp 11:53:46 qebab [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 11:53:49 dto macs in the name makes me think of well macs 11:54:18 also. i want to change the name of a global variable. while i am breaking things. what's the best way to do this? M-x grep? 11:54:19 maybe xiomax? 11:54:24 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has joined #lisp 11:54:24 -!- ace4016 [n=dante401@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:54:32 hdurer__ [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-hrvyksnktjrmwsyv] has joined #lisp 11:54:47 -!- Wombatzus [n=user@216.31.242.4] has quit [Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 11:55:02 Guthur: then the x is pronounced 2 different ways in 1 word 11:55:04 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-23-70.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-45-228.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 cupe [n=cupe@213.133.102.28] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 prxq [n=mommer@f051101061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 myst [n=myst@s1.les.gurtam.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-13-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 Fah [i=cynic@paranoia.neverlight.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 ztzg__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-006-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 kmc [n=keegan@64.121.133.238] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 ASau [n=user@host186-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 Wombatzus [n=user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 kuwabara [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 mikezor [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-jkdqxjvgyqpjqrht] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 tic [n=tic@c83-249-193-189.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 Xantoz [n=hejhej@c-8cb7e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@ram94-7-82-232-191-53.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-238.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1279405664.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:55:24 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-13-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:55:27 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:55:27 -!- Wombatzus [n=user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:55:28 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:31 Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:32 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-13-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 11:55:32 -!- p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-jkdqxjvgyqpjqrht] has quit [Operation timed out] 11:55:32 Legooolas [n=Legooola@92-236-78-43.cable.ubr14.aztw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:55:32 KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@96.52.239.77] has joined #lisp 11:55:32 p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/session] has joined #lisp 11:55:35 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:55:36 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:55:38 oh aye missed that 11:55:56 might be a cool effect hehe 11:56:01 dto: If you have a recent version of slime; M-x slime-query-replace-system 11:56:34 hmm, no have that tcr. should i svn update slime? 11:56:43 dto: it's cvs, but yeah 11:56:46 always update slime (: 11:56:59 dto: make also sure to use the slime-asdf contrib 11:57:11 how do i enable that 11:57:25 Put (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) into your .emacs 11:57:29 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:57:32 will that let me just rename the system, or the variable i am talking about? I want to change *active-world* to just *world* 11:57:44 it'll run query-replace on all files belonging to a system 11:58:07 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has joined #lisp 11:58:49 sweet. can i get it to include other files though? 11:59:27 nope 11:59:34 your system definition should include those other files 11:59:52 hello 11:59:55 it's used by the game modules that have their own packages, but not their own systems. 12:00:05 i'll have to do it semi-manually there 12:00:10 but thanks for this 12:00:18 ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:00:43 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 12:00:48 dto: Alternatively use M-x slime-edit-uses on *active-world* to see all places where it's currently used 12:01:19 tcr: fail. 12:01:22 (it may not include really _all_ places, so better do an M-x rgrep after that) 12:01:47 tcr: when given change *active-world* to *world*, it only search-finds *active-world <--- no second star, so it replaces to *world** 12:01:56 i double checked 12:01:59 and entered it again 12:02:11 ? 12:02:41 hi fe[nl]ix 12:03:27 fe[nl]ix: I'll probably "release" hyperdoc today, you may want to look at it to have C-c C-d h open links to manpages for stuff in iolib 12:03:59 cool 12:04:16 tcr: i was able to get it to work by replacing *active-world with *world 12:04:23 i.e. ignoring the final * 12:04:35 i'm guessing there's a regexp bug in that command you are telling me about 12:04:40 dto: I don't know it uses your emacs's query-replace 12:04:52 i'm on emacs 23. 12:04:53 no it's regular query-replace, not query-replace-regexp 12:05:14 tcr: i tell it to replace *active-world* and it replaces only *active-world <---- bug 12:05:18 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:05:26 dto: Well just try M-x query-replace maybe the bug is in there 12:05:57 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:18 tcr: works fine. 12:06:29 don't know where to ask, but since it is made in lisp I start here :) . I'm developing a onLine html book editor/viewer. A book is cuttently made by chapters and paragraphs. Question is: if a user selects a chapther should I let him view all paragraphs or one paragraph at a time ? 12:06:29 tcr: with the slime command you can see that only *active-world is highlighted 12:09:05 kiuma, all paragraphs. 12:09:19 thx tic 12:09:39 what would be the alternative? click to show each paragraph? 12:09:43 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:09:50 yes 12:10:09 Yuck. 12:10:42 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit ["Quitting"] 12:10:43 but okular and acroread behave like that 12:11:08 I've the advantage to have xhr calls 12:11:23 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:11:54 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:13:27 acroread behave like what? 12:13:43 last time I checked, PDF files displayed fully 12:13:56 one page at a time 12:14:01 if you want to actually read a document, as opposed to authoring it, you do /not/ want to have to click through each paragraph. 12:14:02 marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has joined #lisp 12:14:06 page, yes, but you said paragraph. 12:14:32 ok you convinced me :) 12:15:07 Don't do things just because you /can/. Might not always be a good idea... 12:15:10 (good luck!) 12:15:10 I only wonder if there will be an easy way to convert the html book with cl-pdf 12:16:05 but that will be an extension :) 12:16:20 focus on the core features, and make sure they're good. 12:17:36 wow there is lisp for mindstorms! -> http://www.yuasa.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~yuasa/xs/ does anyone have experience with that? (my daughter wants me to buy one for x-mas - maybe i buy 2 ;) 12:17:39 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:26:54 HET4 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:27:17 G'morning alll. 12:28:36 hi nyef 12:29:32 tcr: how do I set a face to be buffer-local ? 12:36:24 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 12:36:40 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 12:36:49 benny` [n=benny@i577A322B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:38:42 notsonerdysunny [n=chatzill@121.243.167.99] has joined #lisp 12:39:07 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-182-150.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:39:22 fe[nl]ix: I don't know, I'd try make-variable-buffer-local 12:40:42 demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 12:41:02 dto: Bah I can actually reproduce that 12:42:02 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cbuniocunjrzhwuk] has left #lisp 12:44:22 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:45:15 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 12:45:57 tcr: ah 12:46:15 dto: fixed thanks 12:46:43 you were right, some function internally actually used query-replace-regexp 12:46:48 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 12:47:18 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1A03.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:48:08 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has joined #lisp 12:48:22 Heh. make-ea-for-raw-slot scales its instance-length parameter (when it's a reg-tn) based on the type of its index parameter. WTF? 12:50:12 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:50:50 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 12:54:01 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-9-161.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:54:01 -!- HET4 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 12:56:43 ... if instance-length (parameter 3) or index (parameter 2) are integer, then index is in words. Otherwise, index is a reg-tn containing a tagged-fixnum of words. Joy. 12:57:34 tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:58:39 ... I take that back. If index isn't an integer then it's ignored beyond the type-check. 12:58:48 -!- benny` is now known as benny 12:59:58 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:01 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@174.59.195.12] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:01:43 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:02:56 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:13 -!- angerman [n=angerman@d096.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:13:33 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:13:41 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:13:48 *froydnj* thinks that will be fun for nyef to fix 13:13:57 "fix" 13:14:11 Yeah, decided to move on for now, though it's almost certainly where my current bug lies. 13:16:57 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:18:07 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.114.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:22:54 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:50 mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:54 c|mell [n=cmell@93-142-166-147.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:26:59 *nyef* notes that SBCL pays at least lip service to the concept of a big-endian x86-64 system. 13:28:21 trebor_dki: does it exist for the new ones (NXT) too? 13:31:40 trebor_dki: i've only coded them (NXTs) in ... java (ew) 13:35:24 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 13:36:58 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:31 nyef: ... big endian... x86? 13:38:45 p_l: Oh, probably that too. 13:39:04 ... weren't x86 little-endian exclusively .... 13:39:10 Yup! 13:39:14 *p_l* is rather ... stunned... 13:40:04 otoh, I recently spent around an hour trying to decide how to treat endianess in Lisp, because a certain algorithm had specified little-endianess in its definition... 13:40:49 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 13:40:51 ... The only time you need to specify endianness is when converting integers to/from an octet representation. 13:41:48 For that, I ended up with a set of accessors that work in terms of an octet vector and deal with integers. 13:42:06 nyef: yeah, I just didn't understood enough of the algorithm to just write it with CL primitives... I'll have to check how ironclad implements some of the algorithms 13:43:36 hmmm.... it has twofish, I suspect that moving from Twofish to Threefish shouldn't be too hard, and with Threefish I can move to what I want to implement... 13:43:45 then there would be ton of play with optimization :D 13:44:01 I just replaced my asdf symlinks with a init-file on Linux as well: (load (merge-pathnames ".asdf-central-registry.lisp" (user-homedir-pathname))) works so far for SBCL, CCL and CLISP :) 13:44:53 *p_l* managed to install CCL for someone yesterday on Mac 13:45:05 pity that COCOA-APPLICATION failed to load :) 13:46:12 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:40 caused me to change my Emacs font, though :D 13:46:41 Threefish, Twofish, Redfish, Bluefish? 13:47:42 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@93-142-166-147.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:47:50 -!- mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:47:51 nyef: Blowfish -> Twofish -> Threefish -> Skein hash function 13:48:03 brb 13:48:22 But that breaks the seussness. 13:49:36 c|mell [n=cmell@93-142-166-147.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:51:17 -!- ASau is now known as ASau_ 13:53:03 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:51 Bronsa [n=bronsa@host187-182-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:53:52 -!- kmc [n=keegan@64.121.133.238] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:54:16 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 13:54:17 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:54:41 kmc [n=keegan@64.121.133.238] has joined #lisp 13:55:38 nyef: it would be interesting If I could get my implementation to run at similar speed to that supported by original paper 13:55:44 uff 13:55:54 gentoo's sbcl ebuld fails 13:56:02 *ebulid 13:56:12 bronsa - just get sbcl off www.sbcl.org 13:56:23 i'll do it 13:56:32 i hate clispo 13:56:34 *clisp 13:58:35 Bronsa: does Gentoo still use GCL for Maxima? 14:00:52 no 14:00:55 it uses clisp 14:01:09 For -Maxima-? WTF? 14:02:42 ... wow 14:03:05 Arch nowadays uses SBCL, though I recall that it seemed to use GCL for some time 14:03:25 i'm gonna kill gentoo 14:03:27 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:04:06 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 14:05:15 dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:41 ok 14:06:02 i'm on a cl written wm without a cl interpreter 14:06:13 if X crashes i'm fuck'd 14:06:59 *nyef* recommends not trying to kill-sexp-backwards in emacs, then. 14:07:11 hehe 14:07:21 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:28 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:08:29 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 14:08:47 gn_ [n=gn_@117.204.1.80] has joined #lisp 14:09:25 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:09:48 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:10:36 perdix [n=perdix@g227156075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:13 nyef: btw, authors of Skein hash function claim that they've got it to perform under 7 cycles/byte on Core 2 x86 14:12:39 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:18:01 weirdo [n=sthalik@c156-35.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:19:30 sunwukong [n=vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:21:12 shrughes [n=shrughes@c-76-118-177-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:07 -!- prip [n=_prip@host62-134-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:25:42 prip [n=_prip@host69-133-dynamic.46-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:26:49 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:26:59 <_deepfire> p_l, pkhuong might be interested 14:27:25 not particularly. 14:27:32 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 14:27:50 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:04 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:28:18 <_deepfire> p_l, so on x86-64 it is worser? 14:28:39 god is a shit 14:28:40 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-45-228.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:28:43 <_deepfire> p_l, also, what do you mean by "Arch nowadays uses SBCL"? 14:28:52 -!- notsonerdysunny [n=chatzill@121.243.167.99] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:28:53 cgray [n=user@portan.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de] has joined #lisp 14:29:24 _deepfire: At some point, I had Maxima packages from Arch64 compiled with GCL 14:29:28 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.114.161] has joined #lisp 14:29:39 _deepfire: nowadays, I've got SBCL cores 14:30:27 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f7552de.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:03 <_deepfire> p_l, clisp /might/ make sense for Maxima, because its bignums are faster than SBCL's, due to GMP. 14:31:12 hi, I seem to remember that slime used to copy an expression evaluated in a buffer into the repl and then put the result in the line below. is it possible to do that still? 14:31:37 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c156-35.icpnet.pl] has left #lisp 14:31:42 cgray: M-x slime-scratch 14:31:54 then C-j there, unless you use paredit which overwrite that keybinding 14:31:55 timor [n=martin@w4213.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:57 <_deepfire> But then, ECL uses GMP as well, and seems to generate faster code in general. 14:33:04 tcr: hmm, that's not exactly what i had in mind. I generally like to use C-x C-e in the buffer that I'm working in 14:33:16 tcr: but I'd like some sort of transcript 14:33:43 <_deepfire> Some Maxima folks were expressing continuing interest wrt. ECL on the list. 14:33:53 what's the best way to check whether a given pathname describes a directory (has trailing slash) and convert it if it doesn't? 14:34:41 Bronsa: could you come on #gentoo-lisp ? 14:34:47 ok man 14:35:22 mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:26 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-112-242.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:36:25 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:48 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-24-82-64-128-210.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:03 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:38:16 -!- frontiers [n=frontier@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:39:56 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:01 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:40:12 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:06 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-23-70.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:41:21 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:42:44 -!- maus [n=maus@123.20.0.97] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:42:50 adu [n=ajr@pool-71-241-254-143.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:04 jsnell: MORE UPDATES to http://rvw.doc.gold.ac.uk/sullivan/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=sbcl.git;a=summary 14:43:32 -!- kuwabara [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 14:43:38 Okay, I think that's raw instance slots sorted. 14:44:05 kuwabara [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.fr] has joined #lisp 14:44:25 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:44:41 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:50 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:46:08 nyef: shall I blog about clx-devel and launchpad/clx? 14:47:04 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:47:36 -!- cgray [n=user@portan.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de] has left #lisp 14:47:51 If you wish. 14:48:02 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:49:19 basically saying "I have been remiss in my duties for too long; here comes the knight on his white charger" 14:49:24 with a little bit of elisp thrown in 14:50:34 udzinari [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:50:37 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 14:50:39 -!- timor [n=martin@w4213.dip.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:50:45 -!- udzinari is now known as nyquist 14:50:58 plage [n=user@laptop-147-210-129-138.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 14:51:22 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229080171.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:41 -!- addled [i=51269b15@gateway/web/freenode/x-nqqyukdktsgqaukv] has quit ["Page closed"] 14:54:20 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:54:39 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:55:13 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:55:14 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 14:55:19 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp016.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:56:36 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 15:00:15 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 15:00:36 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:37 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 15:02:52 sellout [n=greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:08 The problem with documentation is that if it's too much it makes things appear complicated that aren't.. 15:03:11 mcspiff [n=user@142.68.79.57] has joined #lisp 15:03:34 I really wonder how the documentation for hyperdoc, which is dead simple, turned out to be that much 15:03:36 tcr: like msooxml? 15:05:04 The problem with documentation is that it's hard to write in such a way as to leave the simple things simple while making the complex things possible. 15:05:21 adu: What's msooxml? did a google search and didn't find a library on it 15:05:42 TDT: microsoft's "open source" office file format 15:05:51 you know, the one that was bribed through the ISO? 15:06:11 TDT: it is Microsoft's response to ODF, the standard describing it is 6000 pages long 15:06:19 Ralith: ahh ok, thanks. 15:06:32 the ODF standard is about 200 pages 15:06:55 its a shame office doesn't support odf 15:07:41 Guthur: but if everyone who thought that boycotted it, then they would still have 99% market share 15:08:24 still a shame from my pov 15:08:37 i am not a demographic, hehe 15:08:50 adu: well, no; the reason it's an interesting problem is because *governments* are starting to think that. 15:08:56 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:57 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f7552de.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:08:59 big customers, them. 15:09:11 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f7552de.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:16 yes 15:10:04 i suspect that we can expect to see flawless MSOOXML to ODF conversion tools in the year 2100 15:10:47 at which point XML will have gone out of fasion and everyone will be using lisp 15:10:47 adu: ODF is about 600 pgs, where as MSOOXML is about 2400 pgs. FYI 15:11:15 myst: are you talking about the ECMA version or ISO version? 15:11:27 adu: ISO 15:12:06 I saw them (2400 pgs) with my own eyes printed and arranged in "groups" 15:12:08 lol 15:12:52 -!- Bronsa [n=bronsa@host187-182-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["reboot"] 15:13:10 http://common-lisp.net/project/hyperdoc/ 15:13:24 Comments (incl. typos etc) welcome 15:13:49 myst: you might be talking about parts 2-4 (which is about 2000 pages), but part 1 is 5572 pages just by itself, I don't know where you got 2400 from 15:14:08 are you sure? 15:14:13 myst: yes 15:14:19 myst: are you? 15:15:09 angerman [n=angerman@host41.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:16:05 adu: I quickchecked Wikipedia, seems I was wrong 15:16:18 the question is: what did I see? :) 15:16:38 obviously I didn't read the thing 15:16:44 Bronsa [n=bronsa@host187-182-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:16:59 http://sprunge.us/GLSB?cl 15:17:41 why the hell clisp tells me *** - READ from #: there is no package with name "XLIB" 15:17:44 tcr: in Notes on the API, s/, We/, we/ 15:18:01 serichsen: yup did that already 15:18:12 tcr: I would generally write HTML in all caps 15:19:29 Bronsa: because there is no package named "XLIB"? 15:19:30 well my markup heuristic will think it's supposed to be a Lisp symbol and wrap it in .., see how URL is rendered 15:19:53 jdz: but i compiled clisp with new-clx flag 15:20:00 and i also installed cl-clx 15:20:10 Bronsa: that may not mean that clx is loaded when you start your clisp 15:20:11 *i've 15:20:19 jdz: how to do that? 15:20:46 Bronsa: maybe REQUIRE would help. but generally you should refer to implementation notes. 15:21:05 jdz: i've tryed inculde 15:21:07 but it fails 15:21:13 Bronsa: and why are you using clisp if you're inexperienced with common lisp? 15:21:21 tcr: in "Advanced Usage: Extra Documentation Types", third paragraph, the parenthesis should not include the dot finishing the outer sentence. I would also put a comma after "for instance". 15:21:23 Bronsa: what is "include"? 15:21:23 jdz: why not? 15:21:27 [1]> (require "clx") 15:21:27 ;; Loading file /usr/lib64/clisp-2.48/dynmod/clx.lisp ... 15:21:27 *** - LOAD: A file with name /usr/lib64/clisp-2.48/clx/new-clx/clx-preload.lisp does not exist 15:21:56 UH 15:22:02 i typed skip 15:22:06 and it told me 15:22:07 module 'clx' requires package XLIB. 15:22:38 Bronsa: as i said, refer to implementation notes. 15:22:39 Bronsa: then install X.org 15:22:43 i've googled a lot 15:22:47 myst: i'm using X.org 15:22:50 serichsen: are you sure about the dot? 15:23:26 I thought in german the dot must come after the closing paren, but in english in front of it 15:24:05 I think it depends on which style guide you use. 15:24:23 myst: that's CL's XLIB. 15:24:30 I'd also like to hear about alternative names for the parameters :NORMALIZE-TYPES-FUNCTION, and possibly :EXTRA-TYPES-FUNCTION 15:24:32 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:24:34 Bronsa: I am newbie in CL, but don't you supposed to do (require 'xlib) before doing (xlib:smth...)? 15:24:43 I'm not very satisfied with them but couldn't think of anything else 15:24:49 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:25:02 *** - LOAD: A file with name XLIB does not exist 15:25:06 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:25:08 myst: Not exactly, as the package name isn't necessarily the same as the module name. 15:25:08 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:25:08 pkhuong: but it's clisp's new-clx, which means that it's implemented in terms of C's libX11 15:25:22 At the same time, isn't this covered in the clisp manual? 15:25:31 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:25:34 but yes, this is not a technical support channel 15:25:40 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:27 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.202.207] has joined #lisp 15:26:48 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-112-242.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:27:04 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-112-242.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:27:27 is sbcl better than clisp? 15:27:38 JJohnson516 [i=JJohnson@206.240.24.244] has joined #lisp 15:27:47 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 15:28:29 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz_] 15:28:30 -!- gz_ [n=gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 15:28:38 Bronsa: yes. 15:28:39 is apple better than orange? 15:28:46 stassats: yes. 15:28:46 lol 15:28:52 and vice versa. 15:29:03 Bronsa: the failures to load you are seeing are either misconfigurations in you clisp distro or conflicts between the clx you installed and the one that came with clisp. 15:29:10 why the hell gentoo's sbcl ebuild is broken 15:29:12 T_T 15:29:25 This is a pretty easy question, but I'm new to CL. I have a list of strings named "bob", and I'm trying to do this: (concatenate 'string bob). I need the strings contained in "bob" to be inserted there, but I'm not sure how to do it. 15:29:32 Bronsa: just download the binary, unpack it and run sudo sh install.sh 15:29:44 prxq: binary of? 15:29:53 Bronsa: binary of sbcl 15:29:56 ok 15:30:02 JJohnson516: Have a look at APPLY. 15:30:04 clhs apply 15:30:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 15:30:14 prxq: i was thinking on doing it 15:30:17 Thank you. :) 15:30:19 i'll do it 15:31:00 So, (not (position :trace-file flags)) or (null (position :trace-file flags))? 15:31:09 Bronsa: I doubt that the problem lay in the ebuild 15:31:28 fe[nl]ix: in also 15:32:13 -!- mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:32:15 nyef: How do I include the 'string parameter? 15:32:33 JJohnson516: only the last thing need be a list 15:32:39 JJohnson516: you can put other stuff in front of it. 15:32:42 JJohnson516: APPLY only spreads its last parameter, so (apply #'concatenate 'string ). 15:33:08 Xach, nyef: Thank you again. :) 15:33:34 Bronsa: ?? 15:33:43 -!- JJohnson516 [i=JJohnson@206.240.24.244] has quit [] 15:33:56 fe[nl]ix: i think the problem is on my gentoo 15:34:04 tcr: I think that you are confusing that with quote marks. 15:36:31 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:36 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 15:36:59 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.98.226] has joined #lisp 15:37:13 -!- adu [n=ajr@pool-71-241-254-143.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 15:39:41 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.98.226] has left #lisp 15:39:55 does anyone know any array slicing/dicing code in cl? 15:40:00 -!- gn_ [n=gn_@117.204.1.80] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:40:14 prxq: Depending on how you want to slice it, MAKE-ARRAY with a displacement. 15:41:24 Ok I committed slime-hyperdoc to slime cvs, so you can play with it 15:41:56 Hyperdoc comes with registry entries for complete ediware, cffi, CL, MOP at the moment 15:42:15 mutew [n=mutew@128.220.159.20] has joined #lisp 15:42:20 nyef: I was thinking of something more fancy. Like taking all rows with odd index, for example. 15:42:33 it's unfortunately not possible to generate automatically links to the sbcl manual (or at least I don't see any systematic scheme behind the linking scheme) 15:43:09 Ah. You need a wrapper around aref to do that portably, but I have a couple ideas for how to persuade SBCL that aref being able to do that is a good idea. 15:43:19 http://l1sp.org/sbcl/sb-thread:interrupt-thread 15:43:42 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:43:49 hmm, my links are out of date 15:44:04 Xach: Yeah seems so :-) 15:44:13 timor [n=martin@w4213.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 15:44:17 tcr: i wrote a very cheesy script to scrape the index 15:44:29 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Boot me gently"] 15:44:33 l1sp.org should probably be using hyperdoc! :-) 15:44:50 Xach, sharing is caring! (the scraper) 15:45:17 I'm not interested in it, the sbcl manual should be fixed 15:45:26 *tic* is. 15:45:53 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@bzq-82-81-24-2.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:46:04 -!- mutew [n=mutew@128.220.159.20] has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:11 gz_ [n=gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:13 is this a valid type specifier? (deftype integer-list () '(cons integer integer-list)) 15:46:13 mutew [n=mutew@128.220.159.20] has joined #lisp 15:46:23 no 15:46:25 tcr: the latest keymap changes broke my local keybindings (local-set-key in a repl-mode-hook).. any idea how to fix it? 15:46:41 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:46:47 adeht: Nope and I don't care as it wasn't me who broke it :-) (sorry) 15:46:50 shouldn't the implementation throw an error then? 15:46:51 Xach pasted "sbcl index scraper" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91519 15:47:07 because (typep 'foo 'integer-list) fails with stack overflow 15:47:08 adeht: it broke some my keys too, i'll look into it 15:47:28 levente_meszaros: It's the same as when you do (defmacro foo () `(foo)) 15:47:37 tcr: that means I won't be testing slime-hyperdoc for now ;) 15:47:40 levente_meszaros: there are lots of halting-problem-like reasons for not bothering to try too hard to detect illegal type specifiers 15:47:57 "The consequences are undefined if the result of fully expanding a type specifier contains any circular structure" 15:48:07 Xof, tcr ok 15:48:13 that is, it's not at definition time that it's wrong, it's when you try to use it 15:48:28 nyef pasted "So, I'm looking at a trace-file, and..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91520 15:48:30 btw how would you define a list of foos? preferably parameteric wrt foo 15:48:31 Xof: Uhm that's the wrong paragraph you quoted there 15:48:47 arguably, yes 15:48:49 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:48:50 levente_meszaros: with satisfies 15:49:08 Xof, and list satisfies? I guess 15:49:09 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:50:04 I sometimes use (deftype list-of (type) `(or null (cons type *))) 15:50:09 ,type 15:50:55 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:51:03 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["bye"] 15:51:05 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:51:37 hmm...cliki needs to be organized a little better 15:52:09 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:52:12 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-2-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:52:24 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:53:04 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:53:39 tcr: i don't see slime-hyperdoc.el, swank-hyperdoc.lisp in your commit 15:54:00 Anyway, what I was thinking was that if VOPs could say that a given input wasn't destroyed over the VOP lifetime, then the compiler could maintain some notion of where multiple copies of a value lie and pick the cheapest one, while still maintaining a canonical location so that it knows which copies can be discarded without fear. 15:54:54 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 15:55:00 stassats: right, fixed 15:55:13 stassats: If you pulled hyperdoc already, pull it again. I forgot to commit some files there, too 15:56:03 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.231.14] has quit ["off"] 15:56:25 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:57:00 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:42 slime-fancy does not yet include slime-hyperdoc because that one currently depends on emacs->22-ness 15:57:52 >=22 actually. 15:58:35 Anyway, I just pushed that stuff out, I haven't rigorously tested it yet. (I won't blog about it hence for the time being.) 15:58:37 *tcr* afk. 15:58:42 we need to break some 21 compatibility to see if anyone still uses it 15:58:54 even I no longer use 21 15:59:49 Xof, tcr am I right that you can't define a list-of type using satisfies while still being parametric wrt to type parameter? 15:59:49 -!- plage [n=user@laptop-147-210-129-138.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:59:50 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-142-244.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:00:42 or should I gensym a function for each type? 16:00:51 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-13-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:00:57 That will not work 16:02:00 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:02:01 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:02:07 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 16:02:24 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:02:35 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest91116 16:02:56 Well, depends on how you'd do it I read between the line that you wanted to define a function in deftype's body 16:03:08 satisfies could have been defined by allowing to pass in extra arguments to the function, those arguments would be taken from the type specification 16:03:10 if you introduce a new macro define-list-type, it'll be ok 16:03:22 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:03:42 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:04:27 milanj [n=milan@93.86.213.12] has joined #lisp 16:04:27 (deftype list-of (type) `(and list (satisfies list-of ,type))) 16:05:03 and (defun list-of (value element-type) (every (of-type element-type) value)) 16:05:18 -!- myst [n=myst@s1.les.gurtam.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:05:36 Yeah, was about to say, it's too bad you can't have transitive closures in type specification. 16:05:57 (Do I mean transitive closures? I don't know.) 16:06:07 Has anyone really tied common lisp calls within emacs? I was thinking..using slime, one could call methods, then from what's returned use elisp to put it in its own buffer? I don't know if that makes sense on what I'm thinking. 16:06:32 you can do this with slime, right 16:06:54 (slime-eval `(cl:+ 1 2)) 16:06:57 TDT: I've used it to have a bit of elisp call a common-lisp function that returns a string, convert that string as a PNM, and insert the resulting image into an emacs buffer. 16:07:39 nyef: Yeah, sounds similar to what I'm thinking. I would like to try and focus more efforts on CL..instead of working on elisp at the same time. 16:07:50 http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/shot1.png has an emacs frame with what I mean. 16:08:26 nyef, ok, fine... but still CL's type system is quite bad in various ways 16:08:44 It's not bad just very limited 16:09:39 (and simultaneously horrendeously complex :-) 16:10:20 nyef: Thanks for the link, a little more complex than what I was thinking I needed, but I like it. And thanks stassats for the syntax, I'll write some helper functions and work on that some. 16:10:46 TDT: what do you want exactly? 16:10:54 TDT: For more fun, examine slime-presentations and see if that sparks more ideas. 16:11:25 yeah exactly, for my previous employer I added a "Display in OpenGL" presentation for their graphic objects 16:11:52 tcr, since the type system can hardly do anything useful with satisfies I hardly see why it would hurt if constant parameters could be passed from the type specification 16:11:56 Well, one thing I"m plannin gon doing is writing a REST interface for my web site, which I'd post information I write in emacs (using org). I could use some of the emacs related stuff, but wanted it as a library for CL so I have it less bound. 16:12:00 -!- timor [n=martin@w4213.dip.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:12:29 -!- sellout [n=greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:12:56 levente_meszaros: You can do plenty of useful stuff with satisfies 16:12:58 *nyef* is lost in a twisty little maze of IR1 blocks, very few of which line up well with the source code. 16:14:02 (not (satisfies array-displacement)), for example :-) 16:14:48 tcr, sure, no doubt, but with very little effort you could do more without loosing anything (at least that's what I think now) 16:15:12 Perhaps, still you should watch your wording. "hardly anything useful" is what you said 16:15:42 tcr, oh, I see, I mean wrt subtypep, but you are right 16:16:45 Working on satisfied is the wrong place; you'd want to introduce recursive types, and type variables :-) I wish I were competent :-/ 16:18:16 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:18:50 -!- rkirti [n=oespirit@203.199.213.3] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:19:12 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:26 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:22:07 I know Haskell's type system and TAPL, but CL's are quite different 16:22:30 but satisfies is just too limited even though it supposed to be the escape mechanism 16:23:02 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:23:56 Okay, random-layout-clos-hash and maybe %puthash? At least, I think this is a full call to %puthash. 16:24:08 -!- skv [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:24:39 nyef: smile, you're famous: http://advogato.org/person/crhodes/diary/138.html 16:24:45 let's see if this gets the complaints flowing 16:24:49 blandest1 [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 16:25:07 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 16:25:24 tcr: mutation makes everything complicated. 16:25:34 ejs [n=eugen@85-238-112-30.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:26:32 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:26:35 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:26:52 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:27:57 -!- blandest1 [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:01 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:28:15 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:51 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:30:51 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:30:52 -!- Soulman [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:31:17 demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 16:31:27 roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 16:32:35 pkhuong, then life is complicated ;-) because it is full of mutation 16:33:06 I think the idea is to improve on nature 16:33:54 right, because we're doing very well at that 16:34:05 "I fancy my summers a bit warmer" 16:34:19 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34:39 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:34:49 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 16:34:57 Soulman [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:13 -!- Guest91116 is now known as lexa_ 16:35:59 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 16:36:14 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:39:11 How do you track back which function a CALL-NAMED VOP refers to? 16:39:12 -!- Soulman [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:40:34 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:40:35 Soulman [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:36 The VOP itself seems to refer to something like t31[Const8]>t32[RAX], and by the time you get back to IR1 you can suddenly have a pile of combinations any of which might be the one for the VOP in question. 16:40:56 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:41:08 snearch [n=olaf@g225055177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:10 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:41:48 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:42:50 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:44:37 Guess it has to be BIG-RANDOM-CHUNK... There's only one full combination in that block, and full combinations have to be full calls. 16:45:06 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:45:18 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-107.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:45:25 Shamiq [n=Adium@24-155-205-80.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:39 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:02 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:10 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has left #lisp 16:46:16 rdd` [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:48:04 -!- Shamiq [n=Adium@24-155-205-80.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has left #lisp 16:48:54 -!- Bronsa [n=bronsa@host187-182-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:48:59 -!- roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 16:49:12 blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 16:49:28 roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 16:50:20 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:33 -!- nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:51:05 Tordek [n=tordek@186.124.139.95] has joined #lisp 16:51:29 cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:53:01 BIG-RANDOM-CHUNK: what a name 16:53:16 Isn't it, though? 16:53:36 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.85] has joined #lisp 16:54:30 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 16:54:34 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:54:34 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 16:55:00 And it's not even fully inlined, so there's possibly more to check after I slog through this. 16:55:03 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@pool-74-96-33-153.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:55:48 I think I'm going to take a break. 16:58:10 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host211.190-138-156.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:59:04 nicdev [n=nicdev@st401-249.subnet-246.amherst.edu] has joined #lisp 16:59:21 __Joker [n=bsenapat@122.170.46.164] has joined #lisp 17:02:39 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-35-218-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:40 -!- nicdev [n=nicdev@st401-249.subnet-246.amherst.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 17:03:53 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:03:54 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:12 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:04:25 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has joined #lisp 17:05:36 sctb [n=sctb@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:58 skv [n=sasha@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 17:06:38 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:40 Sumpen [n=Sumpen@78-72-33-106-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:00 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:07:00 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@93-142-166-147.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:07:07 Bronsa [n=bronsa@host187-182-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:07:24 Does anyone happen to know how I can define an ASDF module and have the files therein found in the parent system's directory (rather than '(:relative component-name)')? 17:08:09 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 17:10:01 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:10:11 sctb: The :pathname option to the component? 17:10:17 oudeis_ [n=oudeis@95.35.92.105] has joined #lisp 17:10:21 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:45 (Going by the README in the version in SBCL.) 17:11:05 nyef: Yes, that works -- I'm hoping there's a solution that involves less duplication and typing (there's quite a few files that I'd like to include this way) 17:11:34 nyef: It might do to subclass module and specialize COMPONENT-PATHNAME 17:13:06 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:15:20 -!- mutew [n=mutew@128.220.159.20] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:16:03 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@186.124.139.95] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:16:42 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:16:43 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 17:18:03 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:18:24 mutew [n=mutew@128.220.251.38] has joined #lisp 17:21:18 -!- shrughes [n=shrughes@c-76-118-177-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091109125225]"] 17:21:49 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:21:54 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:23:21 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:25:54 ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-9-161.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:27:28 -!- nyquist [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:27:54 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:27:57 nyquist [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:30:26 -!- perdix [n=perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit ["A cow. A trampoline. Together they fight crime!"] 17:31:31 -!- mutew [n=mutew@128.220.251.38] has quit ["leaving"] 17:32:15 Is it typical for implementations of SORT(-STABLE) with :KEY to call the key functions once per value to be sorted? I know you can't count on it; I'm asking what is commonly done. 17:32:17 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-142-244.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Success] 17:33:23 You're asking for an implementation survey? 17:33:32 A WAG. 17:33:37 (I'd expect that it might even depend on the type of sequence.) 17:33:49 clall is a nice script... 17:34:16 It seems like a straightforward space/time tradeoff. 17:34:29 (sort '(4 34 3 1 -1 2 3 565 4) #'> :key #'print) 17:34:45 -!- __Joker [n=bsenapat@122.170.46.164] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:35:07 jcowan: http://paste.lisp.org/display/34346 17:35:24 Nice. is there a more stable home for it than that? 17:35:59 clall '(let ((i 0)) (sort (quote (4 34 3 1 -1 2 3 565 4)) (function >) :key (lambda (x) (incf i) x)) i)' 17:36:28 jcowan: no. Do you thinkg a more stable home is waranted? I could put it on my web site. 17:36:42 ruediger_ [n=quassel@93-82-7-39.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:36:59 Sounds like a plan to me. 17:37:24 It can also be found on http://darcs.informatimago.com/public/bin/clall 17:37:26 -!- rdd` [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:37:35 seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:59 -!- sctb [n=sctb@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.1"] 17:39:17 You might want to add ccl. 17:39:21 -!- ejs [n=eugen@85-238-112-30.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:39:38 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:40 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-24-82-64-128-210.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:39:46 jcowan: Indeed, I have to upgrade my lisp implementations. 17:39:57 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-20-20.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:40:00 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-35-82-250-241-252.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:01 In the meantime, if you have the command like, I can add it. 17:41:51 s/like/line/ 17:42:08 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.194.245] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:43:16 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:45:05 nyquist` [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:46:08 "ecl -norc -shell $script" should do it. 17:46:45 -!- Bronsa [n=bronsa@host187-182-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:46:56 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.18] has joined #lisp 17:47:04 -!- ruediger_ [n=quassel@93-82-7-39.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:47:23 __Joker [n=bsenapat@122.170.46.164] has joined #lisp 17:47:34 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:48:47 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.18] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:49:23 -!- nyquist` [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:51:27 I suppose you could write a pair of compiler macros to enforce the space-saving and time-saving varieties of keyed sort. 17:51:40 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:52:04 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-9-161.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:54:12 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:54:44 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:56:48 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:59:35 LiamH: how does scll deal with the fortran blas/lapack? Or is that C Blas/lapack? 18:00:33 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:40 prxq: Not there yet, but there is a way to handle column-major arrays, if that's what you're wondering about. 18:00:47 -!- nyquist [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:01:34 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Success] 18:01:49 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@95.35.92.105] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:02:03 LiamH: exactly :-) I was wondering - in which major are the arrays are handled to gsl? 18:02:21 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:27 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 18:03:31 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:03:42 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:48 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:53 perdix [n=perdix@g227156075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:57 mutew [n=mutew@128.220.159.20] has joined #lisp 18:06:58 prqx: I believe it's assumed to be row-major. 18:07:05 prxq 18:07:10 Intensity [i=[AQytNdW@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 18:07:41 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 18:08:12 Hmmm...slightly brainstorming a bit here. For web apps, would it be better to use asdf to install the libraries in a global spot? or would it be better to include the libraries my application would depend on, then "bootstrap" it to include the libraries over those in site/site-systems. 18:09:18 clbuild also looks interesting, but that also looks like it's a more global install of libraries. 18:09:30 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:09:49 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:09:49 -!- jlf [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has left #lisp 18:09:51 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 18:11:39 -!- drwho [n=drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:12:45 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:13:03 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:13:36 -!- eaumontab [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:14:32 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:42 seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:33 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:16:51 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:17:00 demmeln1 [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:17:32 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:18:04 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:20:02 ``Erik [n=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:43 -!- demmeln1 [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:22:28 davazp [n=user@129.Red-79-156-155.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:39 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@93-81-190-7.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:24:20 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-vivoapslnsjpulxj] has joined #lisp 18:25:45 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:25:59 TDT: I have a couple of copies of clbuild install, one per implementation + the libs I use specifically with that implementation 18:27:25 mcspiff: Does clbuild then just install the libraries in the folder that contains the source for your app, or is it per user? 18:29:27 TDT: each copy of clbuild has a source/ fodler that contains all the libraries that have been installed through it. So I have a sbcl/clbuild that has my installed copy of hunchentoot, cl-who and parenscript installed. I then have ccl/clbuild which has some libaries I use for fooling around with cocoa. The two are totally seperate as far as I can tell. Each as a local config file, etc 18:32:50 josemanuel [n=josemanu@246.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:33:07 Ah, I see, so essentially I could just have a clbuild in an area just for web apps, the binary of sorts, and set the library location to that for these apps. It could be within the source at that point as 'lib' if I wanted to do that. 18:34:24 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:34:28 TDT: and you can register your app with clbuild so it will all be asdf-able 18:37:37 That's a good point, going the opposite way - that is, just having a library with clbuild, then just requiring my app - which then can check the dependencies and download them at the same time. 18:37:47 -!- __Joker [n=bsenapat@122.170.46.164] has left #lisp 18:38:21 THe only thing that worries me a bit about clbuild is specific versions of a particular library. Say development an dproduction use the same setup, but end up using different library versions then there's an increased chance of code breaking. 18:39:12 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:39:23 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:39:32 TDT: thats been a worry of mine as well, and a reason for the ccl/ and sbcl/ setup 18:39:43 TDT: not that im deploying at the moment 18:40:22 TDT: really depends on how you want to deploy 18:41:21 you could just remove the fasls, copy over the source directory and manually set your *central-registry* 18:41:56 ... Hunh. The random machinery looks okay... That actually leaves array manufacture as a possible problem. 18:42:00 or if you don't mind having darcs/git/cvs/svn installed on production servers you could pull the revisions you used in development 18:42:21 Yeah, if I can do that - the specific revisions, I'd be probably the happiest. 18:43:36 nostoi [n=nostoi@87.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:45 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:44:06 doing a quick experiment, it looks like each subdirectory under source/ contains things like .git/ 18:44:35 Yeah, each library should have their own version of .git/.svn/etc 18:44:52 clbuild doesn't look like it supports revisions so much, at least that I can tell. 18:44:59 how so? 18:45:36 -!- thom__ [n=thom@pool-173-67-109-95.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:45:36 Reading through the conf file right now. 18:45:36 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:45:42 TDT: Fetch down a project, cd to its directory, do a branch / tag checkout, pop back up, build? 18:45:55 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-67-109-95.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:28 you can use git/svn/darcs to obtain the specific revision of any library installed. Could probably be scripted if you really wanted 18:47:19 just go through each subdir under source/ and check for .git/.cvs/.svn/_darcs and just use the appropriate command for whichever you find 18:48:41 Yeah, that's an option, mostly just looking for the easiest solution possible. 18:49:58 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:50:34 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:50:37 Hmmm id just copy over source/ and system/ to somewhere that asdf can find (making sure the relative links still work) and just nuke the fasls 18:50:40 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 18:51:10 Yeha, I think that's a good idea and will likely just do that 18:51:25 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-202-112.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:38 I may be getting ahead of myself, haven't even done a weblocks app at all yet, heh. Kinda excited about giving it a try 18:52:07 TDT: I've been tempted to give it a go, kick the tires a few times. 18:52:38 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-202-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:53:28 Yeah, I found a fairly decent tutorial that's one of the "hey, standard blog app go!" type thing 18:53:39 link? 18:53:53 I think it'll be nice to get an introduction...but I'm mostly interested in comparing it to django/rails in memory, speed, and seeing how it compares 18:54:03 Is there a standard macro for calling a function numerous time with a differing args each time? 18:54:16 http://obakechan.net/lisp/cl-blogapp/ 18:54:33 mcspiff: is the one I'm using, plus http://trac.common-lisp.net/cl-weblocks/wiki/UserManual#BreakingtheIce 18:54:37 Ralith: map? 18:54:51 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:55:05 TDT: cool, that'll be something to poke around after exams 18:55:54 mcspiff: Let me know your feelings on it if you would. I'm still tinkering with this or just using clsql + LML or whatever it's called to build a simple site, then use caching to help speed improvements. 18:55:54 -!- mutew [n=mutew@128.220.159.20] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:56:11 Xach: I thought of that, but for a function called N times taking M args I'd like to provide N lists of M elements, not M lists of N elements. 18:56:24 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 18:56:24 TDT: sure thing 18:56:25 mcspiff: This apparently supports ajax quite natively, plus handles the models for you somehow. I'm not sure the details yet. 18:56:33 slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:59 looks like it might be cl-prevelance handling that 18:58:12 oudeis [n=oudeis@95.35.131.108] has joined #lisp 18:58:20 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@87.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 18:58:36 After all that, the bug appears to have moved, and I didn't notice when. 18:58:49 I wonder about migrations, and when running some of the model stuff. 18:58:52 o i lied, it pulls in elephant 18:59:13 haha O elephant, thats always a good time to get up and running... 18:59:34 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:40 So now I'm getting errors in !LATE-TYPE-COLD-INIT. 18:59:48 And no bloody diagnostic output. 19:00:17 mcspiff: I can't say I have much experience with elephant, heard of it before mentioned - never used it though 19:01:29 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:01:48 the problem I had previously was that it either expects cffi and uffi (can't remember which) and clbuild only installs one, since it can emulate both. Except the emulation layer didn't work with elephant 19:01:52 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:10 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 19:02:12 Ralith: http://paste.lisp.org/+1YML 19:03:49 -!- davazp [n=user@129.Red-79-156-155.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:04:06 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-243-78.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 19:04:22 ntd: oh, right. 19:04:44 I knew there was a functional approach I was forgetting. 19:04:44 thanks 19:05:23 davazp [n=user@143.Red-88-1-103.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:21 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-175-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:06:31 TDT: well it installs easy enough 19:06:38 weblocks that is 19:11:31 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:14:18 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 19:14:33 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has quit ["Valete!"] 19:18:46 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 19:21:10 moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-163-238.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:50 konr [n=konrad@201.82.131.153] has joined #lisp 19:22:34 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 19:22:36 mcspiff: Yeah, installed it here a bit ago and it went well. 19:23:48 dnolen [n=dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:24:04 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:24:38 b 19:24:57 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.18] has joined #lisp 19:25:13 nicdev [n=nicdev@st401-115.subnet-255.amherst.edu] has joined #lisp 19:25:30 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:25:31 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:28:36 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Client Quit] 19:29:58 -!- nicdev [n=nicdev@st401-115.subnet-255.amherst.edu] has left #lisp 19:38:37 sellout: herep 19:38:58 gigamonkey: It's all over, what could you want?! ;) 19:39:20 You're as bad as Apress -- sans serif font for a novel?! 19:39:43 timor1 [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:39:56 gigamonkey: Heh, I didn't even choose it, just clicked the generate PDF button ;) 19:40:03 I'll fix it. 19:40:08 From Scrivner? 19:40:13 Yeah 19:40:16 Weird. 19:41:25 If anyone wants to watch my latest Google talk (about Coders at Work, not Lisp) it's at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQy22qPH7i4 19:41:37 gigamonkey: OT, just finished Coders at work this week. Good stuff, thanks for writing it. 19:41:46 If you do, let me know if you can get farther than 4 or 5 minutes before it stalls out. 19:41:57 ryepup: hey, thanks for reading it. 19:42:08 You're the one who was acosted in a bar for reading it, right? 19:42:18 gigamonkey: heh, that's right 19:42:29 I should have been footballing I guess 19:42:29 j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has joined #lisp 19:42:50 my wife and I are dodging that place until NFL season is done 19:43:01 Q: what is wrong here: (#'(lambda (x) (1+ x)) '(1 2 3)) in my ACL 19:43:20 j0be: drop the #' 19:43:57 You want a function name, not a function object in the CAR of a CONS to be evaluated as a function call. 19:44:46 j0be: Q: what do you expect to happen? 19:45:08 gigamonkey: hmmm okay. 19:45:17 how can I check if my sbcl is built for threading? 19:45:39 i wanted mapcar I see. I wanted to map the function (1+ x) over the list (1 2 3) ---> (2 3 4) 19:45:56 mcspiff: #+thread-support t 19:46:15 mcspiff: might be able to inspect *features* 19:47:02 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [] 19:48:26 aintme [n=Miranda@206.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:48:49 thanks guys 19:49:14 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:29 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.85] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:50:04 thanks! 19:54:48 gigamonkey, are you the author of pcl? 19:55:02 moah: yeah. 19:55:10 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:55:26 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:52 wow, thats cool you hang around here. I actually just bought the book to work it through over the christmas holidays. 19:56:16 Excellent. 19:57:36 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.85] has joined #lisp 19:57:43 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 19:58:12 *Xach* coughs 19:58:22 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@95.35.131.108] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:58:48 Oh, yeah, moah, let my introduce my co-author, Xach. ;-) 19:58:58 robyonrails [n=roby@host18-20-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:59:29 heh, interesting name, rodyonrails. 19:59:30 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:01:58 / 20:02:01 woops 20:02:33 dgou [n=dgou@c-24-23-119-48.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:39 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:02:41 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 20:03:34 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-181-1.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:03:52 Upside: I've tracked down my current bug to some use of the globaldb. Downside: I've tracked down my current bug to some use of the globaldb. 20:07:09 -!- Sumpen [n=Sumpen@78-72-33-106-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:07:31 ... Or not. make-named-type it is. 20:07:42 (At least to start with.) 20:10:03 Turning on :trace-file and slamming is sufficient for it to stop breaking?!? WTF? 20:13:14 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:14:15 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:14:44 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:16:26 -!- dgou [n=dgou@c-24-23-119-48.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:17:31 mutew [n=mutew@128.220.251.38] has joined #lisp 20:20:13 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-226-97.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 20:22:42 gigamonkey: BTW, font is now Georgia. 20:22:50 -!- mutew [n=mutew@128.220.251.38] has quit ["leaving"] 20:23:01 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-20-20.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:23:11 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-44-216.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:23:33 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 20:24:11 sellout: cool. I'll grab it again. 20:24:59 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host18-20-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 20:25:08 gigamonkey: You don't _have_ to ;) 20:25:31 But I'm *gonna*. >:-} 20:27:58 gigamonkey: finished your novel? :) 20:28:54 p_l: Well, a draft of it. 20:29:07 gigamonkey: I'm not even _that_ far. 20:29:19 Depends how you define 'draft'. 20:29:55 I've got characters who disappear because I decided later they were't needed. And a sex scene I have to bowdlerize before I can let anyone but my wife read it. 20:30:44 heh 20:31:12 gigamonkey: I let the whole video buffer, went to play it, and it froze up at 1:53 20:31:25 hefner: weird. 20:31:46 So that implies it's not a networking issue, right? 20:32:08 My guess is on flash 20:32:14 no, I don't think so. It isn't even my crappy sound system flaking out. 20:32:16 I had seen weird stuff happen randomly 20:32:29 p_l: so a problem with the file itself that makes Flash barf on it? 20:33:46 gigamonkey: I'm not sure. Instead of debugging the case, whenever I got such behaviour I downloaded the file to harddrive and watched with mplayer 20:34:13 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-23-70.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:35:15 sellout: printing out now. 20:35:45 Can one download from Youtube? 20:36:02 gigamonkey: with certain stuff, yes 20:36:14 the same from google videos 20:36:39 I just look for the unusually large file and fish it out of my firefox cache folder 20:36:54 Normally firefox puts the flv in the temp directory 20:36:58 if you use a Mac, Safari and Click2Flash, the Click2Flash thing offers a H.264 download menu entry for the videos 20:37:01 *Elench* was too slow :'-( 20:37:06 francogrex [n=user@232.90-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:37:28 http://rentzsch.github.com/clicktoflash/ 20:37:47 *p_l* uses Download Helper + Yousuable TubeFix (for greasemonkey) 20:38:55 it seems a little strange that (last list) is not similar to (first list) et al 20:39:22 oudeis_ [n=oudeis@77.126.236.111] has joined #lisp 20:39:44 Guthur: it's because it's more general. It's really LAST-N with a default of N=1 20:40:11 gigamonkey ah good point, missed that 20:40:31 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@77.126.236.111] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:31 I do wince a little every time I write (first (last x)) 20:42:01 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 20:42:37 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:53 gigamonkey i know, thats the situation that made me mention it 20:43:16 gigamonkey: alexandria has last-car, I believe. 20:43:42 i was just about to say its probably common enough to require an implementation 20:44:07 *stassats`* rarely uses last 20:44:36 lastcar 20:46:19 -!- snearch [n=olaf@g225055177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:48:55 -!- francogrex [n=user@232.90-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:49:32 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:49:33 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 20:50:03 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:25 funny, now the video is playing fine. 18 minutes and counting. 20:51:11 triyo [n=triyo@dsl-245-149-201.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:52:07 I have been trying to get asdf-install working with ccl and have gotten very far except this error: http://pastebin.com/m28720256 .. anyone have any ideas as to why I get the "Error: Error component "drakma" not found" 20:52:33 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-226-97.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:52:38 Gotcha! If I slam both target-random and classes then !classes-cold-init completes. 20:52:56 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 20:53:54 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633626.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:54:21 triyo: because you are using asdf-install 20:54:26 minion: tell triyo about clbuild 20:54:26 triyo: have a look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 20:54:53 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-67-188-112-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:54:54 Clearly, we're going to have to find all of the places that suggest using asdf-install and expunge them. 20:55:13 -!- perdix [n=perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:55:29 perdix [n=perdix@g227156075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:55:56 holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 20:56:21 stassats`: thx 20:57:38 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-164-51.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:38 -!- mcspiff [n=user@142.68.79.57] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:05:41 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.85] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:51 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@114-45-233-150.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:06:46 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:22 shrughes [n=shrughes@c-76-118-177-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:23 mcspiff [n=user@142.68.79.57] has joined #lisp 21:09:33 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:11:11 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@246.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 21:11:16 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 21:11:38 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-158-110.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:45 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:54 -!- aintme [n=Miranda@206.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["/* */"] 21:14:23 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:15:31 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 21:18:12 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-44-216.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 21:20:50 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.85] has joined #lisp 21:21:22 TDT pasted "Can this be written better?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91545 21:21:55 I'm not too fond of the way I wrote this..is there a better, more concise way, of dealing with this type of issue? 21:22:29 it's not even a real flatten 21:22:42 (flatten-results '((a) (a (d)))) => (A A) 21:22:55 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:22:57 The classical response, of course, is to tell you to try not to need such a thing. 21:23:01 Well, in the case I need this for, that case isn't really needed. 21:23:17 cl-sql returns results in a way like this..I'm not exactly fond of that either :) 21:23:18 given that, (mapcar #'first list) 21:23:36 that...I should have thought of, thanks hefner 21:23:39 TDT: :flat t 21:24:35 S11001001: Serious? hm..very cool, I'll use that instead, that's the best case available. 21:24:37 TDT: :flatp T, I think 21:25:13 hmm, check the docs for select, TDT 21:27:05 Shamiq [n=Adium@24-155-205-80.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:10 hi all 21:27:30 yeah, flatp was the one. I read the docs, totally missed this one 21:27:34 Thanks, that helps a lot. 21:27:49 i've got a generic question. I'm looking at a homework problem that's asking me to look at any s-exp and see if it contains a number 21:28:08 Odin- [n=sbkhh@194-144-58-124.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 21:28:32 and apparently, i need to "implement this using a simple conditional, recursion, and SOME." 21:28:41 any pointers on how i should approach this? 21:29:00 Start with the case of a flat list. 21:29:20 Start with the case of an atom, actually. 21:29:58 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@194-144-58-124.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Client Quit] 21:30:57 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-243-78.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 21:31:16 Ah, right. 21:31:55 so assuming this is in the body of a cond 21:32:27 (atom input) (some #'numberp input) 21:32:36 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:32:56 and that'll be my base case 21:32:58 ...or mb i should be ORing 21:33:00 bah 21:33:25 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:51 jared [n=jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:19 -!- jared is now known as Guest63214 21:34:43 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:46 -!- Guest63214 [n=jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:34:53 clop2 [n=jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 21:38:15 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-44-216.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:38:29 -!- j0be [n=j0be@ke-works-1.starters.tudelft.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 21:38:40 -!- triyo [n=triyo@dsl-245-149-201.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:38:44 triyo [n=triyo@dsl-245-149-201.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:39:05 kerimbasol [n=kerim@85.107.151.240] has joined #lisp 21:39:09 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:39:18 -!- triyo [n=triyo@dsl-245-149-201.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 21:39:30 -!- kerimbasol [n=kerim@85.107.151.240] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:37 Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:56 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f7552de.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:40:04 kerimbasol_ [n=kerim@85.107.151.240] has joined #lisp 21:41:12 -!- mcspiff [n=user@142.68.79.57] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:42:16 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-47-49.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:24 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32D391.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:27 perdiy [n=perdix@g227156075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:44:22 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:45:47 hah, got it. 21:45:49 that wasn't bad. 21:47:11 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:48:04 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:05 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:26 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 21:48:48 How does SBCL handle time inside? 21:49:01 -!- cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:49:38 Odin- [n=sbkhh@194-144-58-124.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 21:50:25 cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:52:37 marioxcc [n=user@200.56.159.167] has joined #lisp 21:52:58 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-44-67.iburst.co.za] has quit ["Zzz"] 21:54:34 loxs [n=loxs@85-130-35-10.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:26 -!- perdiy is now known as perdix_ 21:55:32 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:35 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-35-218-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:53 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-109-110.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:46 -!- borism_ [n=boris@213-35-235-152-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:01:21 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229080171.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 22:04:04 -!- perdix [n=perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:04:54 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 22:05:19 good night 22:05:27 serichsen: Sleep well. 22:05:41 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d066607.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["te"] 22:06:34 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-164-51.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:06:59 Hmm...with elephant, what's the difference between that and just straight clsql? I know one of their main talking points is object persistence, and as I understand that, it's just how objects are stored in a database. CLSQL has the model mapped out, in such a way, that I feel it acts similar to an object. You can set the slots, save, and so on...what does elephant actually do that clsql isn't doing? 22:07:27 -!- gz_ [n=gz@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 22:08:03 -!- clop2 [n=jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:09:40 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:09:41 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:09:41 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:10:02 borism [n=boris@213-35-235-152-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 22:13:45 Joreji [n=thomas@45-242.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:14:45 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-109-110.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:14:45 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:48 -!- Shamiq [n=Adium@24-155-205-80.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has left #lisp 22:16:17 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:16:20 TR2N [i=email@89-180-135-135.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 22:16:44 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:17:06 oudeis [n=oudeis@62.219.154.220] has joined #lisp 22:17:30 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:19:20 TDT: it feels quite a bit less than an object once you start containing objects and marking them for storage update 22:21:09 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 22:21:28 S11001001: So what you mean is that Elephant helps with associations a little better? 22:23:02 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@62.219.154.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:23:43 -!- schmx [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:25:22 hefner: did you watch the whole thing? 22:25:38 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:25:55 TDT: definitely 22:26:24 TDT: clsql's orm is nice, but won't save you from bookkeeping storage updates and object containment 22:26:44 TDT, did you check perec? 22:27:29 S11001001: Yeah, I noticed a lot of that with the limited CLSQL I've done so far. 22:27:43 gigamonk`: I did, although I had to restart and seek a few times. I can't wait to read the book. 22:27:54 levente_meszaros: No, I haven't, but I'll take a look at that. I'm not really looking for alternatives as much as I'm just researching a bit here and there about what others are using and why. 22:28:17 levente_meszaros: elephant came up a lot of times, it seems...very popular module for web development 22:28:55 Okay, it's probably in class.lisp, as just slamming that "fixes" it, but it's not in the actual loop that fails... 22:29:01 TDT, last time I checked SQL mapping was a joke 22:29:05 In sb-alien, how can I declare 64-bit type on 32-bit platform? 22:29:06 but BDB is nice 22:29:33 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:39 ASau: Integer types take a width parameter. 22:29:41 (signed 64) or long-long 22:29:46 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 22:29:50 hefner: I don't suppose you have the whole thing in your cache somewhere? 22:29:59 I'm unable to download more than the first 25M. 22:31:05 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.18] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:31:14 Krystof: Would you happen to have any idea of what might be wrong? If I do a full build, it dies in the loop over *built-in-classes*, but if I then touch classes.lisp and slam it gets as far as late-type. 22:31:23 gigamonk`: sorry, no. 22:31:24 nyef: (define-alien-type uint64-t (unsigned 64)) ? 22:31:32 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-26.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:31:42 ASau: looks reasonable, but I haven't been doing much alien work recently. 22:32:31 nyef: no idea, sorry 22:33:39 Is my best bet to grovel over the IR1 block output to find out what full calls might be being made and compare the trace output for the functions that happen to be in class.lisp? 22:33:55 -!- cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:33:57 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@194-144-58-124.du.xdsl.is] has quit [] 22:35:15 hefner: too bad Youtube isn't run by some company that knows how to run big data centers or something. 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