00:02:42 gigamonkey: what's the story in brief? "As you value your life and your soul, stay away?" 00:03:07 gigamonkey: Dan Weinreb plugged your book btw. Don't know if you knew 00:04:26 -!- pr_ [n=pr@p579CAA35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:05:25 dlowe: hadn't seen that. On his blog? 00:05:30 jcowan: Pretty much. 00:05:49 *jcowan* gurmbles about how he coulda told ya that before. 00:06:10 gigamonkey: http://danweinreb.org/blog/coders-at-work-by-peter-seibel 00:06:18 jcowan: I just discovered that the reason some of the paragraphs in the introduction to Coders at Work are smooshed together (where they're supposed to be block paragraphs) is bacause they did the block paragraphs with extra newlines between graphs rather than by using a style. 00:06:21 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-089-212.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 00:06:39 A small thing but yet another on a top of a huge pile of utter inanities. 00:06:59 That's a two-for-one plug: CaW and PCL both 00:07:10 dang` [n=daniel@S0106001a704b7fbe.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:29 jcowan: buy the whole set! 00:08:09 You remember when I talked to you about writing an ISLisp edn. of PCL? You passed me on to your APress editor, who passed me on to another editor, who said he had no idea who owned the derivative rights. If anyone. 00:08:45 And after that it was just dropped on the floor, though I made it clear this would be a non-commercial, non-competitive hatched job^W^Wedition. 00:08:52 s/hatched/hatchet 00:09:03 crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has joined #lisp 00:09:23 gigamonkey, I found an error in your book that's not in the errata 00:09:54 Adlai: email it. I'm updating for a 3rd printing now which is why my heart is full of rage, having to deal with these stupid Word files again. 00:09:58 it's in the Norvig interview, I'll get the exact page in a few minutes 00:10:09 Or just tell me here, if that's easier. 00:10:21 ehh I don't remember the exact location 00:10:36 gigamonkey: word files? O.o 00:10:37 What that shows is that people inside APress don't have a clue what's going on. 00:10:41 it's maybe 5-10 pages in, there's an unnecessary 's 00:11:05 Ralith, yes, they even rejected the TeX that gigamonkey had put together himself 00:11:09 :| 00:11:13 gigamonkey: t 00:11:14 that is pretty rageworthy 00:11:16 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:41 "If [an editor] doesn't pee in it, it doesn't smell like him, and he won't buy it." 00:11:57 -!- ziga`` [n=user@89.142.60.106] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:12:45 jcowan: Heinlein. 00:12:52 Or, rather, Jubal Harshaw. 00:20:43 p_l: oh, hey. I just figured you'd be amused by the block-paragraphs-by-hard-newlines typesetting technology Apress deployed in C@W. 00:21:58 heh 00:22:00 Jubal is one of my favorites. 00:27:11 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:27 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 00:29:34 -!- flatline [n=flatline@z166195.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:30:21 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has left #lisp 00:36:51 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A86EC.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:38:47 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-94-1.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:39:19 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:07 -!- smithzv [n=smithzv@c-98-245-87-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:41:49 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 00:41:56 Hi guys 00:42:46 LiamH: (hope you read this) Just to quickly let you know, I pushed a fix for the complex test in example.lisp . I gotta go to bed now. See you later 00:42:59 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 00:42:59 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-180.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 00:45:50 quodlibetor [n=user@edtech03.dhcp.hunter.cuny.edu] has joined #lisp 00:46:29 pfeyz [n=user@edtech03.dhcp.hunter.cuny.edu] has joined #lisp 00:46:54 -!- kmc [n=keegan@206-71-236-70.c3-0.nyw-ubr5.nyr-nyw.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:46:59 kmc [n=keegan@206-71-236-70.c3-0.nyw-ubr5.nyr-nyw.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:23 gigamonkey, I found the typo 00:47:44 -!- pfeyz [n=user@edtech03.dhcp.hunter.cuny.edu] has left #lisp 00:47:53 page 318, "I read a lot of the Symbolics's code," 00:48:01 borism_ [n=boris@213-35-232-204-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 00:50:00 trebor_home [n=email@dslb-084-059-023-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:38 i think it should be symbolics' 00:52:41 right? 00:52:45 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 00:53:07 adlai: symbolics' 00:53:12 correct? 00:53:35 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:53:48 Or just "Symbolics code". 00:53:57 Guthur, I'm actually not certain it's a typo, but I think it is 00:54:07 is it not possessive plural 00:54:34 Guthur, no, Symbolics is singular 00:54:51 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:55 Zhivago, yes, that's what I think it should be. 00:55:13 i have to admit i'd not sure what 'symbolics' is hre 00:55:17 here* 00:55:38 minion, tell Guthur about symbolics 00:55:39 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``symbolics''. 00:55:42 !? 00:55:50 In that case, it would refer to the code produced by the company, Symbolics. 00:55:54 ah 00:56:13 It's definitely a typo. 00:56:45 For "the Symbolics' code", it would refer to the code belonging to "the Symbolics (machine)". 00:57:17 it can belong to the company to 00:57:17 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:57:19 rread_ [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:26 like the author's book 00:58:03 Guthur, http://www.symbolics-dks.com/ 00:58:23 or maybe http://smbx.org/ is more appropriate 00:58:33 Guthur: Compare with "the Fred's book." 00:59:30 In any case, if that's the only error, then they've done an extremely good job of proof-reading. 00:59:38 according to 7 here -> http://www.mantex.co.uk/samples/apo.htm 00:59:45 it says many companies drop it 00:59:49 but not that they have to 01:00:08 that reference could be wrong though 01:00:28 thats in a title i suppose 01:00:41 rajesh [n=rajesh@cpe-68-173-54-94.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:37 ganbold [n=ganbold@ng1.ub.mng.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:44 -!- george [n=george@189.107.153.110] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:06:37 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:06 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:31 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 01:10:08 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:10:20 -!- trebor_home [n=email@dslb-084-059-023-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:10:25 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-42-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:10:38 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-42-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:12:03 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 01:12:12 -!- Mathieu [n=mlegrand@cm36.sigma98.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 01:12:31 -!- aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:14:09 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 01:15:05 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:15:09 -!- Adlai` is now known as ADLAI 01:16:19 -!- ADLAI is now known as Adlai 01:17:05 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CB35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:19:31 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 01:20:21 george [n=george@189.107.136.87] has joined #lisp 01:21:02 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:21:05 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:22:48 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-131-243-232.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 01:24:27 -!- sysop_fb [n=bleh@72-11-239-10.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit [] 01:24:30 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:40 -!- Modius__ is now known as Modius 01:25:06 Did CL-Soap ever go anywhere? I see a page but it looks quasi-abandoned. 01:25:11 Or is there a substitute? 01:32:13 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:33:33 I'm hoping it died a horrible death with the soap that spawned it. 01:34:02 which is, I guess, just another way of saying "If SOAP is your answer, you're really asking the wrong question." ;) 01:34:10 envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 01:34:38 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6FDF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 01:34:51 If you want a shot at writing a single plugin in a wider system where everything will be using it, you need soap. . . . 01:35:26 sounds like you have to deal with a huge wedge of java middleware. 01:35:34 Potentially .Net 01:36:45 ah well. pay no attention to me. the only person I know who dislikes SOAP more than me is rsynnott, and that obviously makes this a conspiracy of the Irish. 01:39:10 -!- Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 01:40:08 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 01:49:22 benny [n=benny@i577A702D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:53:21 minion: memo for Sikander: Thanks! A simple fix, but one that completely escaped me. 01:53:21 Remembered. I'll tell Sikander when he/she/it next speaks. 01:54:31 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-fqwbbcpfbqkxsdtb] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:54:31 -!- rread_ [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:54:32 -!- quodlibetor [n=user@edtech03.dhcp.hunter.cuny.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:54:56 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:55:05 -!- billstclair [wws@clozure-5A39CB22.taconic.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 01:55:25 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:48 Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-114-23.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 01:58:05 Modius [n=Modius@70.123.130.159] has joined #lisp 01:59:07 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:00:32 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [] 02:02:46 ikki [n=ikki@189.247.110.78] has joined #lisp 02:04:41 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 02:05:57 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:54 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 02:08:02 krainbolt [n=krainbol@adsl-065-013-148-105.sip.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:13 -!- Retardedpope [n=Retarded@c-66-56-9-145.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:08:37 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:08:44 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 02:13:14 george_ [n=george@189.107.144.120] has joined #lisp 02:26:15 *attila_lendvai_* is fed up for today with dealing with a huge pile of accidental complexity around loading/compiling lisp code from text files 02:26:20 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 02:26:28 roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 02:26:51 jameshwoo [n=james@125.69.123.252] has joined #lisp 02:28:23 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:54 -!- george [n=george@189.107.136.87] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:29:55 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-79-59.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:30:30 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-7-1.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:39:14 ska` [n=user@124.157.214.146] has joined #lisp 02:40:28 -!- jameshwoo [n=james@125.69.123.252] has left #lisp 02:43:10 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:44:34 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@adsl-71-139-210-181.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:44:58 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.247.110.78] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:45:28 bgs101 [n=ian@h221.23.131.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:54 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:46:04 -!- bgs101 is now known as bgs100 02:46:12 ikki [n=ikki@189.247.110.78] has joined #lisp 02:50:49 ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-13-29.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 02:51:09 Xof: new (summer 2008) paper by L'Ecuyer on efficiently jumping ahead for mersenne-twister-like generators. That'd give us a much more proper tool for independent random states than playing with the seed. 02:53:27 -!- ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-88-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:53:55 Retardedpope [n=Retarded@c-66-56-9-145.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:37 I want to know the number of unique elements in a list. 02:55:37 (function '(a a b c d d d e e d)) => 5 02:55:55 is there such a function in lisp 02:56:23 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:58:49 (length (remove-duplicates ..)) 02:59:49 george__ [n=george@189.107.129.109] has joined #lisp 03:00:17 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:02:17 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:04:25 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 03:05:09 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-196-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:04 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:07:11 I have a C question (I know, wrong channel). If x is declared in a function "static unsigned long int x = 1;" and is changed in that function, does that mean that it has the value 1 only when the function is first called? 03:08:06 -!- ska` [n=user@124.157.214.146] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:08:06 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:08:12 LiamH: that's the point, yes. 03:09:39 pkhuong: Thanks. GSL defines a lot of tests repeatedly calling a function urand that does that. It means that execution order is important for the tests then. 03:10:34 -!- george_ [n=george@189.107.144.120] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:10:38 Yup. That's the sort of situation where streams and substreams (as enabled by jumping ahead efficiently) are useful (: 03:11:53 -!- ztzg_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-004-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:12:23 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 03:14:07 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 03:14:40 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:14:46 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 03:17:25 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:18:37 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jpnwxrzukamsqwml] has joined #lisp 03:18:38 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:20:48 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-089-212.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:21:54 saikatc_ [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:32 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-13-29.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:23:09 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279774745.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 03:23:26 khumba [n=khumba@S0106001e2ac2d18e.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:40 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBBA8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:28:35 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-196-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:28:36 -!- saikatc_ is now known as saikatc 03:29:51 ska` [n=user@203.146.146.169] has joined #lisp 03:30:08 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-089-212.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 03:30:44 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-155-195-97.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:09 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey` 03:31:21 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-195-97.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:31:26 -!- gigamonkey` is now known as gigamonkey 03:31:57 -!- ska` [n=user@203.146.146.169] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:32:14 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:33:28 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.247.110.78] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:33:39 ska` [n=user@203.146.146.169] has joined #lisp 03:35:11 sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #lisp 03:35:28 if I have a symbol, say, 'var, how can I access the value of the variable var? 03:36:19 clhs symbol-value 03:36:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_5.htm 03:38:25 sohum: careful, that only works for specials. 03:41:33 -!- roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 03:41:54 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 03:41:56 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:42:50 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:42:52 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 03:44:43 rread [n=rread@72.254.98.222] has joined #lisp 03:44:46 -!- H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBB531.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:46:15 ztzg [n=dash@dslb-084-057-018-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:29 sohum: local variables don't exist as such at run time 03:51:21 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:51:34 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:52:21 saikatc [n=saikatc@98.210.192.23] has joined #lisp 03:57:29 pkhuong, rahul: aaah, I see. thanks. 03:58:54 -!- mogunus` [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:06:45 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 04:07:11 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:07:17 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 04:07:17 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:08:47 quodlibetor [n=user@146.95.21.252] has joined #lisp 04:11:28 -!- marioxcc [n=user@201.132.83.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:14:52 sohum: if you explain what you're really trying to do, we can acutally help you 04:15:01 sohum: likely, what you want is a hashtable 04:16:04 lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@88.73.229.239] has joined #lisp 04:18:51 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-73-155.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:25:01 -!- lpolzer [n=lpolzer@88.73.251.254] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:25:45 -!- Hun` [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:26:45 -!- tessier is now known as StayPhree 04:27:36 -!- StayPhree is now known as KoTechs 04:28:51 -!- KoTechs is now known as tessier 04:32:38 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A702D.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:35:11 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 04:36:50 rahul: nah, it's basically horrible design anyway. I have it working, and I will clean it up Soon (TM) 04:43:53 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:47:37 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [] 04:48:05 how can I get a new "dedicated" emacs frame with only a slime repl in it? 04:48:33 currently slime-connect creates a "popup" repl in the same window that it is being called. 04:49:05 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 04:50:08 clog_ [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 04:53:31 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:54:33 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-195-97.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:59:03 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-77-211.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:00:37 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:00:39 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 05:02:46 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 05:03:15 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest50665 05:05:00 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:05:03 -!- clog_ is now known as clog 05:07:46 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:10:20 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 05:11:02 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 05:12:28 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:12:32 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 05:13:18 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:18 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 05:21:54 does SBCL not recognize custom type specifiers for LOOP variables? 05:22:11 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:22:13 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 05:23:16 -!- kmc [n=keegan@206-71-236-70.c3-0.nyw-ubr5.nyr-nyw.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:24:14 Adlai: loop might not do what you expect with compound type specifiers... 05:25:11 yeah, this is the VEC type specifier, that expands to (complex double-float) 05:25:30 it's ok, I found an ugly hackish workaround 05:29:49 -!- Guest50665 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 05:34:40 -!- badipod [n=badipod@110.32.140.61] has quit [Client Quit] 05:35:33 benny [n=benny@i577A1167.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:36:31 pfeyz [n=user@146.95.33.4] has joined #lisp 05:36:57 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:38:52 -!- krainbolt [n=krainbol@adsl-065-013-148-105.sip.msy.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:40:02 -!- pfeyz [n=user@146.95.33.4] has left #lisp 05:41:57 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 05:41:58 -!- rread [n=rread@72.254.98.222] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:42:34 mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-066.iasi.cablelink.ro] has joined #lisp 05:42:45 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:42:49 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 05:42:50 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:23 <_deepfire> Ok, http://feelingofgreen.ru/desire-waterfall is the preliminary version 05:48:19 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 05:49:20 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:49:23 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 05:49:41 <_deepfire> No process output hooked up yet, although all infra is in place. I just need to go sleep.. 05:49:56 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-066.iasi.cablelink.ro] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:50:13 <_deepfire> And it's live-updating while it's going, which is not now, despite it saying "still running".. 05:54:46 FullMetalHarlot [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:00 mogunus [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:01 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["off for a while"] 06:03:39 -!- Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-114-23.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:05:08 mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-066.iasi.cablelink.ro] has joined #lisp 06:06:47 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:07:30 dawoop [n=david@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 06:07:40 Anyone here has used ltk? 06:08:29 My question is; it seems that inside the "with-ltk" macro, I cannot use my own functions or variables that I've declared myself 06:09:48 dawoop: what makes you say that? 06:10:16 pkhuong: because when I try to use for example a variable I have setf'd just before, it says it's undefined 06:10:20 when it's clearly not 06:11:08 how did you define that variable? 06:11:12 with setf 06:11:26 no defvar, defparameter, or let? 06:11:39 nope 06:11:44 should I use that instead? 06:12:14 well, I know that the body within the with-ltk is bundled into a callback lambda that gets invoked by the tcl lisener 06:12:25 so who knows what context that would be in 06:12:27 Osaka [n=yuki@fl-71-3-76-202.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:40 I see 06:12:51 -!- FullMetalHarlot is now known as KatrinaTheLamia 06:12:59 So, how should I solve this then? 06:13:01 If you use defvar, I'd presume the values would stick as globals 06:13:22 (it's not really a variable though, more of a constant) 06:13:29 but I suppose there is defconstant? 06:13:32 then use defconstant! 06:13:34 dawoop: try pasting exactly what you typed in and what your implementation prints out. 06:13:56 I'd suspect package issues more than anything else. 06:14:01 lisppaste: url 06:14:02 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 06:15:35 dawoop pasted "ltk" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90560 06:16:18 dawoop: you're not in the same package. 06:16:51 anything before your in-package statement will generally fall into the cl-user package 06:17:12 Don't use (in-package "LTK"); that changes the current package to LTK's. (use-package "LTK") to make your current package (CL-USER, I assume) use the LTK package. 06:17:51 Or better, create your own package that uses both CL and LTK. 06:17:58 dawoop: setf is assignment; you shouldn't assign to things that haven't been defined yet. 06:17:59 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:18:12 Phoodus: a lambda will close over its environment. 06:18:33 Ralith: right, it seemed odd that it was failing 06:18:35 See . 06:18:59 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:35 http://sykosomatic.org/lisp/fuck-yeah-gravity.ogv <-- lisp-powered. 06:20:37 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:21:00 recordmydesktop sucks, but there's an fps counter to clarify :P 06:21:28 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:24:36 oh, interesting Phoodus 06:28:35 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 06:31:07 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 06:33:28 -!- dawoop [n=david@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:36:47 -!- quodlibetor [n=user@146.95.21.252] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:37:30 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:38:38 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-089-212.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 06:42:36 <_deepfire> Ok, for some reason the waterfall is pretty single-threaded atm. 06:45:17 <_deepfire> Ah, locks, damn it, no wonder. Rwlocks are needed. 06:47:31 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6FDF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:33 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6FDF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:48:07 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:48:26 -!- ska` [n=user@203.146.146.169] has left #lisp 06:48:27 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:49:06 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:44 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has joined #lisp 06:50:23 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:50:43 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 06:51:35 ziga`` [n=user@89.142.60.106] has joined #lisp 06:51:56 planet lisp is fun 06:52:07 finding some fun toys on there 06:53:39 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 06:58:28 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 06:59:52 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6FDF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:12 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:06:16 cmm- [n=cmm@82.81.3.167] has joined #lisp 07:07:31 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 07:07:36 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 07:07:52 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 07:10:10 ASau [n=user@77.246.230.247] has joined #lisp 07:13:05 Original [i=187db297@gateway/web/freenode/x-zayhraybbrsgyimt] has joined #lisp 07:13:21 people use lisps? 07:15:53 there's about 300 users here 07:16:28 is there even a standard lisp sdk/interperator? 07:16:45 cause when I google I see abunch of random, most lacking win32 support 07:17:04 minion, tell Original about that-dead-sexy-book 07:17:05 no, we have a standard (spec), instead 07:17:05 Original: please look at that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 07:17:19 original: What problem do you want to solve? 07:17:58 ok let's look at it this way, i'm a indepth programmer who program's in various languages c,c++,asm(my favorite and main1),php,perl,python,delphi,vb 07:18:07 what does lisps bring to the table 07:18:46 yeah, just check out PCL (the book mentioned in the link above) and perhaps check out what others discovering lisp have said; http://wiki.alu.org/The%20Road%20To%20Lisp%20Survey 07:18:58 Multiple dispatch, macros and metaprogramming appear to be what those are weak in. 07:20:39 only that lisp solved all of theproblems those try to solve 40 years ago 07:20:52 plus some they haven't yet 07:20:57 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:21:18 clog_ [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 07:23:36 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-3-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:23:37 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:23:38 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:23:58 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 07:24:04 yeah masm(assembly) has an amazing macro system, so i know how cool that can be 07:24:10 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:24:24 is there any lisp assembler/compiler u recommend? 07:24:58 since you mentioned win32 there's CCL and CLISP 07:25:01 Original: CCL, SBCL, clisp, ecl, depending on what you want to do -- if you want a free one. 07:25:09 minion, tell Original about SBCL 07:25:10 -!- nareshov is now known as naresh 07:25:10 Original: please see SBCL: Steel Bank Common Lisp is an open source / free software Common Lisp implementation. http://www.cliki.net/SBCL 07:25:22 if you're willing to fork over good cash, Allegro CL or LispWorks are fine too. 07:25:28 you guys focus on linux platforms dont you? 07:25:34 or you do win32 and mac aswell? 07:25:54 read above. 07:26:32 i think the majority focus on linux, yeah .. but CCL and CLISP runs on Win32 also .. (SBCL not so well; not 100%, but it works IIUC) 07:26:35 Various implementations have multiple OS/architecture support. Clozure CL is particularly well-suited for OSX development if you're looking for that. 07:26:48 ECL also runs on Windows, or anywhere you can get a C compiler 07:26:49 CCL and CLISP both work well on winblows, too. 07:27:30 Original: different lisp implementations have different advantages. I use several of them depending on the requirements. That's the beauty of the spec. :) 07:27:44 CCL basically works everywhere 07:28:02 although I think it's not entirely stable on the BSD systems yet 07:28:22 Adlai: I'm surprised it's not stable on FBSD. 07:29:31 *Adlai* bows down to the spec 07:30:10 Athas [n=athas@80.161.87.214] has joined #lisp 07:31:46 -!- Osaka [n=yuki@fl-71-3-76-202.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has quit ["leaving"] 07:31:46 sykopomp, there's been some discussion on the openmcl-devel mailing list recently about building it on OBSD 07:31:56 -!- ganbold [n=ganbold@ng1.ub.mng.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:32:04 ah 07:33:35 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06f278.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:36 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:33:40 good morning 07:33:49 hey 07:33:53 wow looking at some example lisp code that calls win32 funcions 07:34:02 it seems wordy and confusing as hell 07:34:30 lisp compiles into native code or is interperted? 07:34:36 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:34:37 -!- clog_ is now known as clog 07:34:44 Original: both and/or neither. It's not specified. 07:34:54 that depends on the implementation, Original .. but it tends to be compiled into native code 07:35:11 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:35 be real with me guys, do you use lisp cause its more rare than others and extremely nerdy? lot of people use perl for this reason, as its very unrestrictive 07:36:04 Original: do you use ASM because you want to feel hardcore? 07:36:05 "for this reason" doesn't seem to map directly to "very unrestrictive" 07:36:08 Original, no, we use CL because it's the most powerful language currently available 07:36:14 i'm just trying to *get it*, doesn't seem to be a standard, just a up in the air whatever you wanna do get up get down party with this lisp thing 07:36:37 I know usocket, and write-byte and write-line, exist. Is there a write-integer? which layer deals with things like network byte order? what string encoding does write-line use? is there some package on top of usocket that makes sending network data simpler? is there some crucial bit of info I'm missing? 07:36:41 Original: it's a standard. :) 07:36:51 Original, http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/ 07:37:12 sykopomp I use asm paticularly masm because its amazing macro capabilities allow c like calling convention(eg 1 line), function nesting etc... and it doesnt care about datatypes, most things can be defined as dwords, it also supports structures and unions 07:37:14 Original, lisp _has_ a standard .. this is not true for many of the other languages you mentioned previously 07:37:17 ericjames [n=ericjeld@24.144.136.246] has joined #lisp 07:37:24 best of all its very easy to read and it produces small lighteing fast code 07:37:49 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 07:38:04 Original: I like lisp because it makes hard problems simple and ridiculously hard problems... simple 07:38:04 :) 07:38:05 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:39:14 it hardly needs defending 07:39:21 google answers all. read and then read some more. 07:39:45 i am reading, and for someone whos come from alot of other languages, its confusing and seems more wordy than need be 07:40:29 lisp is pretty easy. One would expect someone with something this basic. 07:40:34 more wordy than assembler? 07:40:35 err 07:40:44 holycow, if you don't know it advance what keywords to google, it can be hard to find good info about CL 07:40:49 someone with your expertise would not have trouble with something this basic* 07:40:56 *sykopomp* wonders where the rest of his sentence went. 07:41:38 Original, are you looking at PCL? 07:41:52 Axius [n=ade@92.84.11.105] has joined #lisp 07:41:56 ganbold [n=ganbold@202.131.232.87] has joined #lisp 07:42:24 i'm looking at win32 examples, which consist of just calling the winapi, I see a page full of function defining, which is disturbing as that backend overhead should already exist 07:42:34 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 07:42:36 <_3b> lisp is verbose for small things, but small things are small anyway 07:43:52 last time i checked the use of a C library, even in C, still required for one to #include the relevant header files 07:44:17 ..there are ways to generate the declarations needed automatically from the header files, though 07:44:55 in GoASM you don't even need to define win API functions, just included whatever dll it's exported from! how about that simplicity 07:45:08 invoke MessageBox,0,"hi guys","title",MB_OK 07:45:20 thats a function call, in lisp thats alot harder from readin this 07:45:26 I wont attempt to paste it, as its many lines 07:45:49 lisppaste: url 07:45:49 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 07:46:00 nice 07:46:06 was that bot written in lisp? 07:46:10 yes, Original .. CL> (foreign-funcall :strlen :string "hello world" :uint) and i press enter and ==> 11 07:46:37 invoke lstrlen,"hello world" and I press enter 07:46:42 see how much longer yours is 07:46:48 :P 07:46:56 this is really not a problem 07:47:01 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:47:14 splittist [n=dmurray@164-237.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:47:14 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit ["Asta-la byebye"] 07:47:16 morning 07:47:21 (defun strlen (str) (foreign-funcall :strlen :string "hello world" :uint)) (strlen "hello world") => 11 mine is now shorter 07:47:33 uhh 07:47:37 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 07:47:46 or just (length "hello world"), which will work on any sequence :) 07:48:05 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:48:06 the most interesting stuff about a language is _not_ the default stuff .. but the ways a language can make other things shorter, and lisp has that 07:48:49 or not "shorter" .. .. but more-to-the-point .. something like that anyway 07:48:58 Original: do you have any questions that don't involve trivia? 07:49:56 just don't get why it requires so much typing 07:50:00 the answer to your winapi point: No, lisp does not include, as a language, predefined functions for dealing with the winapi. Many lisps, though, give you tools to link to C easily, so it's not that much trouble when you need to. 07:50:03 that should have been; (defun strlen (str) (foreign-funcall :strlen :string str :uint)) .. but yeah, this isn't very interesting 07:50:36 you don't need to write that every time. If you regularly to winapi development, you pop all those definitions into a file and use them everywhere. 07:50:49 yes but winapi consists of thousands of definitions 07:50:50 this is a non-issue (apart from the initial bump which can be groveled away) 07:50:58 doing that manually isn't enjoyable or to be taken lightly 07:50:59 if you want them all, grovel them. 07:51:06 does lisp support 64bit? 07:51:20 it supports as many or few bits as you want 07:51:21 lisp does not "support" 64bit. Implementations do. 07:51:37 see that fact theres so many implementations isn't a good thing 07:51:47 you think so 07:51:54 Original: there are cl implementations that have native 64bit integers and pointers 07:51:54 more chances for bugs, more chances for lack of features and smaller userbase 07:52:07 Original: you're missing the point. They all have different uses :) 07:52:18 Original: oh my! we never realized 07:52:32 alright, time to pack up and squat another language's irc channel, guys 07:52:33 oh here we go 07:52:35 Original: most people on this channel use one or two Lisps for most of their dev work 07:52:37 i think less chances for bugs 07:53:15 Original, CL has very little build-in syntax, and the vast majority of the builtin operators have verbose names. However, most of us use an IDE which gives us powerful editing commands, including tab completion which means you actually don't have to type that much. 07:53:18 antifuchs don't feel bad its a common problem among the *nix community, linux users just don't play well with each other, thats why theres over 1000 distros, imagine if there were 5-10, things would be alot more fruitful, asfar as lisps goes I was lookin for 07:53:29 a reliable language,implementation 07:53:29 actually it isn't a problem 07:53:33 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:53:33 Original: SBCL/CMUCL and Clozure CL are good ones to pick 07:53:36 the problem is in the windows programmer 07:53:45 unices users embrace plurarity as a strength 07:53:51 as heavyweight CL platforms 07:53:52 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:54:00 window duches only understand the one great tyrant 07:54:19 holycow can you elaborate 07:54:22 and thanks adamant 07:54:31 there is nothing to elaborate on 07:54:31 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 07:54:37 if you want a commercial Lisp, there's LispWorks and Franz 07:54:40 what is the one great tyrant 07:54:44 its simple naturaly system economics 07:54:47 is a commerical lisp worth it 07:54:54 Original: there is none but there are mini-tyrants 07:54:58 microsoft is an antiseptic single thoughtline conglomerate 07:55:01 Original: depends on what you're doing. 07:55:07 SBCL is probably the most popular in general and is free/open 07:55:10 linux is an entire ecosystem of thought, rationale, you name it 07:55:14 for heavyweight stuff 07:55:17 also, allegro common lisp comes with a winapi library. I think it should have most of what's in the current winapi specification. 07:55:17 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:22 Original, in this channel, SBCL has the majority of developers 07:55:30 costs an arm and a leg, but if you really have to use it, this is the platform I'd go to 07:55:34 one is single bland farm growing a single crop, the other is a jungle with infinite species and variety 07:55:38 or rather, with a bit more grammar: The majority of the CL implementation hackers in this channel primarily hack SBCL. 07:55:38 Franz has a lot of nice bells and whistles 07:55:51 but it's expensive 07:55:55 one is inbred and prone to virus infestation the other is resiliant in its expresion of natural complexity 07:56:01 antifuchs, ACL costs nothing compared to LW... 07:56:11 has nothing to do with microsoft, windows is a real os, linux is a hobby, difference? linux refuses to appeal to the general population, its not stupid easy like windows, linux users are religious on there 1000 system cmds, thats why they have 3% of the entire pc user population 07:56:14 to those that want to be ruled over by a tyrant, go at it 07:56:18 the rest of us don't even notice 07:56:19 anyway back to lisp 07:56:25 right 07:56:27 Adlai: more expensive than most are willing to spend, I'm sure 07:56:29 thank you, stick with Lisp 07:56:30 linux and unices only run everything 07:56:31 if I find a good supported win32 07:56:35 while windows runs the desktop 07:56:35 that discussion is fruitless 07:56:39 yes 07:56:42 implementation, community 07:57:01 Original: for Win32 you might want to go commercial for your Lisps 07:57:08 i'll give it a go, but my focus is to write real software, not help develop the backend for a hobby language 07:57:11 Adamant: or use CCL! 17:04:10 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:10 17:04:10 -!- names: ccl-logbot beauty silenius sellout benny Krystof leo2007 SandGorgon grouzen Odin- danlei mrSpec acrid morphling Axius harag fusss nvoorhies Paraselene__ jleija milanj blandest slyrus_ ikki tobetchi lupine_85 nowhere_man rajesh Guest39654 mattrepl spradnyesh Athas rrice DrunkTomato cvandusen setheus bobbysmith007 Haplo_ Demosthenes ignas dlowe billstclai Phoodus rstandy eno Fare Jasko2 ia antoszka daniel_ blackened` mvilleneuve demmeln mstevens 17:04:10 -!- names: flatline konr segv Reaver2 envi^home bulibuta Edico _deepfire ruediger dv_ kejsaren_ Hun ecraven Jafet carlocci loxs sp0_of tcr Xach lukjad007 levente_meszaros kmc kejsaren gonzojive stoop xristos wlr dto redline6561 mishoo spiaggia hdurer__ tltstc jl_2 Helheim vcgomes Orest^bnc djinni` chrisdone Computer nicktastic peddie phadthai guaqua Maddas hoeq Borbus Douglish jsnell z0d Pepe_ Ralith Xof moocow mogunus` fihi09` Wombatzu` knobo` FufieToo 17:04:10 -!- names: legumbre nikodemus Dodek lichtblau Taggnostr boyscared fiveop metasyntax cpt_nemo stepnem borism_ lpolzer joga qeb`away cods _3b` ironChicken trittweiler saikatc Tristam ahaas slather qidush pragma_ ``Erik srcerer_ skeptomai|away Modius_ stassats splittist ericjames serichsen clog huangjs mikezor_ ziga`` fgtech KatrinaTheLamia lnostdal sytse Kolyan ztzg H4ns kleppari Vonunov Adamant dstatyvka nullman colin__ tmh coyo drewc lisppaste luis` 17:04:10 -!- names: rlb3 ampleyfly cipher rdd varjag Madsy mgr blitz_ jrockway delYsid Soulman naresh a-s r0bby emma TR2N robewald_ dmiles_afk slyrus ski whoppix Axioplase_ yahooooo specbot minion majhool rbancroft C-o-r-E hohum_ ianmcorvidae rlonstein Tordek Elench prip felipe esden foom yacin koning_robot koollman guenthr tufflax Patzy beach rullie fnordus PissedNumlock tic krappie rsynnott kloeri chii Ginei_Morioka lemoinem REPLeffect_ rey_ hdurer_ fatalnix1995 17:04:10 -!- names: schme antifuchs thoolihan araujo bakkdoor xinming ramus` s0ber scode wgl rahul qed Adrinael_ Pavitra manituuuu wentbackward mathrick m4thrick antgreen Spaghettini cmatei liron holycow aja herbieB udzinari lharc nyef CrazyEddy ve pixel5 alexbobp tessier gz j0ni Fade sykopomp mtd arbscht schaf froydnj AntiSpamMeta piso egn rapacity codemonk1yx erg cataska l_a_m luis mle dfox joast michaelw metric blast_hardcheese dostoyevsky BrianRice Buganini 17:04:10 -!- names: Aisling nimred sjbach bfein Khisanth dek5 nasloc__ Lycurgus qsun pok mornfall thijso housel kuwabara dcrawford _3b dalkvist_ DrForr_ p8m highb ineiros aking johs jyujin Bucciarati retupmoca anekos authentic madnificent pkhuong zbigniew tvaalen Zhivago tarbo_ maskd Draggor p_l mncaudill bdowning russell_ rotty hicx174 spacebat_ psc_bw eihrul acieroid 17:06:53 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:07:09 It's beauty and the beach 17:09:34 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:09:53 I think they call that baywatch 17:10:41 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 17:11:18 Xof: tests taking 10minutes on a 1.2ghz? 17:11:56 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 17:12:17 Uh why does cpuinfo say "Model: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.86GHz" but "cpu MHz : 798.000" for me? 17:12:32 tcr: throttling. 17:12:34 I can't remember I have clocked it down 17:12:36 tcr: because of frequency throttling 17:12:37 power saving 17:12:49 cpufreq-info 17:12:49 I'm on AC 17:13:00 tcr: yes? It's about that order of magnitude, isn't it? 17:13:04 tcr: so you're probably using an ondemand governor 17:13:26 Xof: It takes over half an hour for me 17:14:17 rahul: I will investigate thanks 17:14:41 cpu MHz : 2400.000 cpu MHz : 1200.000 cpu MHz : 1200.000 17:14:45 on my sustem 17:15:03 cpu 0 is performance, 1 and 2 are ondemand 17:15:10 really? My 1.5GHz thing takes of the order of 10 minutes 17:15:57 dnolen [n=dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:16:09 I don't remember ever having a machine that could run the sbcl tests in 10 minutes. just running the thread tests alone takes that long 17:16:11 * (sb-kernel:specifier-type '(and array (not simple-array))) 17:16:11 # 17:16:18 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:16:31 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Nantes-117-4-154.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:16:31 -!- danlei [n=user@82.113.106.145] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:16:39 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.85.27.164] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:16:42 jsnell: step 1 17:16:54 5. COMPLEXP: T 17:17:01 ooh 17:17:30 *Xof* will run the tests, and time them too 17:18:52 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:19:26 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:19:27 that was so astonishingly easy I wonder how many bugs it will have introduced 17:19:55 fortunately pfdietz is no longer actively making type system hackers' lives a misery 17:20:16 Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-126-225.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 17:20:43 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 17:21:35 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 17:21:42 real 3m52.816s 17:21:42 user 3m6.028s 17:21:56 (that, admittedly, is on my development machine, a two-year-old amd64 thing) 17:22:14 for the tests?? 17:22:18 I find that very hard to believe :-) 17:22:19 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:22:23 yes. non-threaded, mind you 17:22:28 what is pfdietz doing these days? 17:22:30 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@164-237.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1"] 17:22:36 ah, maybe that would matter 17:23:04 but on this machine even threaded is no huge deal; maybe up to 6 or 7 minutes 17:23:11 what can I say? "run them in screen"? :-) 17:25:58 anyway, our test suite detected no new failures by that hackery 17:26:52 so, do I get a cookie? 17:26:59 yay, it passes the tests, ship it! 17:27:08 boo, the tests don't cover whatever it breaks! 17:27:13 dynamic throttling might be an issue. 17:27:15 there was something somewhere that this actually fixes, too 17:27:46 there's some terrible compiler note message somewhere saying something like "object is a ARRAY, not a ARRAY" 17:28:05 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:28:08 where one of those is a "maybe complex" array and the other is a "definitely complex" array 17:28:09 ouch. is there an "a/an" format directive, like ~P? 17:28:17 Xof: teaching the compiler difference between maybe and definitely (not) would be extra plus good. 17:28:32 Xach: for my purposes that is secondary brokenness :) 17:28:48 pkhuong: it already knows that: there's T, :MAYBE and NIL for the complexp slot of array types 17:28:55 and it's probably _mostly_ propagated correctly 17:29:02 During propagation, with conditionals. 17:29:15 ah, through constraints? 17:29:30 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:29:37 ok, I want to hunt down the thing that this fixes so that I have an excuse to commit it 17:29:49 we can talk about actually making things better afterwards 17:29:57 can I add you to the sbcl10 list yet? 17:30:11 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 17:30:15 9m10 real time here, with throttling on (at least 1-2 minutes were spent constantly spawning new processes, and thus with low utilisation) and threads. 17:30:34 Xof: yes. 17:30:35 poor jsnell 17:30:45 maybe google employees can't afford fast computers in this day and age 17:31:09 maybe they gave him one of the swissair lisp machines. 17:31:14 It's a slow 2.1 GHz barcelona (x2). 17:31:33 I set my cpufreq governor from ondemand to performance 17:31:55 hopefully that will reduce my time, I'll also try screen 17:32:33 tcr: screen is always helpful when the tests fail. 17:32:36 How hot can a notebook get before I should worry? I know it past it got as hot on some parts as I couldn't touch it 17:32:43 in past 17:33:03 tcr: it should report CPU temp 17:33:06 oh, screen will _definitely_ save you time 17:33:16 I was only joking about that because I thought everyone already knew about it 17:33:19 monitor that 17:33:36 if it gets over 100C cool it down 17:33:42 ok 17:33:48 if it's much above 70C keep it off your lap 17:33:50 by blowing at it? 17:34:00 stassats: with a electric fan, yes 17:34:04 tcr, most hardware have built in failsafes 17:34:14 You can expect a shutdown, but not a meltdown 17:34:25 they will shut down for critical temps, but the high temps are still bad for them 17:34:30 and then you have to reboot 17:34:54 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:01 tcr: and google to find out whether that model is known for having badly applied thermal paste. 17:35:06 wow, this type system is cleverer than I am 17:35:10 i had terrible performance until i noticed that my cooler was bad and it had thermal throttling all over 17:35:15 * (sb-kernel:specifier-type '(and (or bit-vector string) (not simple-array))) 17:35:40 # 17:37:46 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:37:53 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 17:37:53 aha! https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/309129 17:37:59 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:38:05 quodlibetor [n=user@146.95.21.252] has joined #lisp 17:38:44 ; caught WARNING: 17:38:45 ; Asserted type (AND ARRAY (NOT SIMPLE-ARRAY)) conflicts with derived type 17:38:45 ; (VALUES SIMPLE-VECTOR &OPTIONAL). 17:38:50 *Xof* wins 17:41:57 (and it's been a long time since I've said that) 17:42:03 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["restart"] 17:47:17 Oddity [n=Oddity@99.199.136.138] has joined #lisp 17:48:47 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:51:00 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d2b20.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:52:08 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:52:30 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:56:31 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-13-62.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:57:05 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [] 17:58:56 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:37 good morning 17:59:54 hi ahaas! 18:00:05 hey Xach! 18:00:39 Thanks for pointing a local lisper in my direction the other day. However, I moved to Portland, OR this summer. 18:01:03 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-18.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:01:40 Yeah, I saw your pin on the map was out there. It made me wonder if I made up the whole georgia thing based on your name, Atlanta Haas. 18:01:51 -!- Oddity [n=Oddity@99.199.136.138] has left #lisp 18:01:51 :) 18:03:55 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:09:35 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 18:09:52 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:26 -!- FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:14:06 -!- Haplo_ [n=ihatchon@LPuteaux-156-14-10-37.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 18:14:57 dnolen [n=dnolen@65.217.189.98] has joined #lisp 18:15:14 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BCED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:32 -!- ziga`` [n=user@89.142.60.106] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:26:58 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:27:02 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 18:27:09 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:18 ziga` [n=ziga`@89.142.60.106] has joined #lisp 18:27:19 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Nantes-117-4-154.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 18:27:36 Jabberwockey [n=jens@p54AD5532.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:24 -!- Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-126-225.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:30:27 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-131-243-232.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:35 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:35:27 -!- Reaver2 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:36:44 -!- ericjames [n=ericjeld@24.144.136.246] has quit [] 18:37:49 milanj- [n=milan@93.86.189.128] has joined #lisp 18:41:24 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:41:30 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483AE98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:09 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 18:46:19 Axius [n=ade@92.85.21.174] has joined #lisp 18:46:50 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.187.145] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:47:47 ejs [n=eugen@85-238-112-249.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:51:34 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:18 nha [n=prefect@31-174.4-85.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:53:34 Whoo M-x slime-query-replace-system rocks 18:54:29 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 18:55:35 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:58:31 dang` [n=daniel@S0106001a704b7fbe.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:46 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:02:57 tcr: Ooh that sounds good, but my slime doesn't have it. 19:03:29 -!- ejs [n=eugen@85-238-112-249.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:06:16 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:12:07 rares1 [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:48 -!- knobo` [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:14:28 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:19 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.85.21.174] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:15:39 htk_ [n=htk___@188.3.227.235] has joined #lisp 19:16:28 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:17:05 Haplo_ [n=hatchond@cau33-1-82-66-14-55.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:20 -!- Haplo_ [n=hatchond@cau33-1-82-66-14-55.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:18:37 Axius [n=ade@92.82.69.95] has joined #lisp 19:20:03 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:20:15 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:30 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:21:30 Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-126-225.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 19:21:40 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:21:46 LiamH: update to latest version. I think he checked it in 2 days ago 19:22:12 scottmaccal1 [n=scott@sentry3.jayschools.org] has joined #lisp 19:22:15 *has to leaf* 19:22:30 demmeln: OK, that explains it, I haven't updated in a few days. 19:23:52 aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:24:25 -!- quodlibetor [n=user@146.95.21.252] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:26:04 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:26:46 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:26:59 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:27:05 ruediger_ [n=quassel@93-82-4-188.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:27:07 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 19:28:05 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 19:28:40 quodlibetor [n=user@146.95.21.252] has joined #lisp 19:30:03 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:31:24 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:42 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-jvenlybnzmxyorzv] has joined #lisp 19:34:49 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-89-215.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:38:45 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:49 george [n=george@189.107.139.123] has joined #lisp 19:39:49 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:40:47 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1279589180.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:40:54 Did demmeln just make like a tree? 19:41:14 -!- Maddas [n=mz@74.125.121.33] has quit ["leaving"] 19:44:47 LiamH: I haven't comitted it yet 19:45:47 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Nantes-117-3-70.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:46:04 tcr: OK, something to look forward to then. 19:46:06 -!- ziga` [n=ziga`@89.142.60.106] has quit ["Client Quit"] 19:47:18 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:19 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.69.95] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:51:46 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:53:42 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:56:23 ziga` [n=ziga`@89.142.60.106] has joined #lisp 19:59:43 -!- loxs [n=loxs@85-130-35-10.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:02:12 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BCED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 20:02:39 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:03:34 -!- Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-126-225.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:03:40 mstevens [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:03:57 -!- george [n=george@189.107.139.123] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:04:03 -!- tufflax [n=tufflax@1-1-8-11a.ang.sth.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:06:13 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-100-100.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:06:57 george [n=george@189.107.175.107] has joined #lisp 20:07:23 -!- aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:07:36 aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:08:43 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.118.48] has left #lisp 20:11:24 tufflax [n=tufflax@1-1-8-11a.ang.sth.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:13:01 tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:37 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Nantes-117-3-70.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:17:39 Nshag [i=user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-4-36.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:24 lispm [n=joswig@g224044029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:33 rpg [n=rpg@c-75-73-48-133.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:51 jgracin [n=jgracin@vipnet88-89.mobile.CARNet.hr] has joined #lisp 20:22:59 Anyone have a moment for an asdf question/discussion? 20:23:40 minion: anyone 20:23:40 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``anyone''. 20:23:47 hrmm, wrong channel/bot 20:23:55 rpg: just ask 20:24:36 minion: advice on anyone 20:24:37 You can't expect automated advice for everything. 20:24:55 OK, here goes: I have a system where the .lisp files are generated by make. I add the following ":in-order-to ((load-op (make-op )) " to my system definition. 20:25:26 rpg: Ooh, you made a make-op? 20:25:36 Now asdf tries to load all my (non-existent) lisp files, then run the make-op. My best guess is that it is just planning the make-op before the load-op on the system itself. 20:25:47 rpg: Correct. 20:25:57 Since ASDF:traverse does postorder traversal, it actually schedules the make op too late. 20:26:25 rpg: I think it's a bug, but it's documented to do in-order-tos after subcomponents are processes. 20:26:26 d 20:26:47 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32EFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:51 rpg: If you attach the in-order-to to like the first file that gets loaded, it'll work. 20:26:57 Unfortunately, for me, doing make-op on the components is not defined. The make file really doesn't do that well... 20:27:06 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-77-211.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 20:27:26 rpg: You can still do it on the system, no? 20:28:09 (:file "package" :in-order-to ((load-op (make-op )))) ... 20:28:20 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.86.141] has joined #lisp 20:28:33 davazp [n=user@156.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:37 -!- quodlibetor [n=user@146.95.21.252] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:29:03 And you might want to make it in-order-to compile-op. 20:29:07 sellout: I can do this, but it badly deforms the system, which has only two top level components: a set of datafiles (generated by make) and a code file that needs the data files. 20:29:27 hi from beirc 20:29:30 -!- scottmaccal1 [n=scott@sentry3.jayschools.org] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:29:46 sellout: ordinarily, yes, but there's no compile-op on these files (I should have said that, sorry) --- load-op does a specialized read. 20:30:11 sellout: so I have to somehow add a bogon component that just forces the make-op to be done. 20:30:13 rpg: I agree that it's silly the way asdf traverses, just trying to give you a workaround. 20:30:31 sellout: Agreed. The "yuck" wasn't aimed at you, but at the way asdf traverses. 20:30:53 asdf really should have done a pre-order and post-order traversal. 20:31:26 Yep. 20:31:40 Alright, I gotta go internetless for a while, ttfn 20:31:44 -!- sellout [n=greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 20:32:24 *Xach* wonders if fare's party counts as this month's boston lisp meeting 20:32:41 francogrex [n=user@251.44-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:33:12 Hi, does anyone know if in sbcl one can use something like this: (asdf:make-build :cffi :type :fasl) ? 20:33:18 anyone have an asdf component class that acts as a phony target? I.e., something I could attach in-order-tos to, without it actually doing anything itself? 20:33:51 so that instead of loading each time the asdf and dependencies, it's just in one compiled file? 20:34:01 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:34:41 francogrex: I think I might have access to an asdf extension that does something like that --- builds a single fasl. But I don't think it works properly to just load the single fasl --- we used it only in buildilng images.... 20:35:27 rpg: ah i see 20:36:57 but still may be interesting 20:37:27 -!- aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:38:57 LiamH: Yow! I just comitted slime-query-replace-system. Tell me how it works for you. 20:39:47 tcr: OK, thanks. No particular need to do that operation right now, but I'll let you know when I do. 20:41:17 LiamH: You could test it by renaming something to itself. 20:41:31 tcr: good point 20:41:48 Haplo_ [n=hatchond@cau33-1-82-66-14-55.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:25 How old is your current checkout? 20:43:42 It was a few days... I just did clbuild update slime and now it gets an error when I start up emacs. 20:44:57 could you paste it? 20:46:20 LiamH pasted "slime won't start" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90606 20:47:18 LiamH: You have do update with cvs up -dP 20:47:42 seems like it hasn't fetched a new file (swank-match.lisp) 20:47:44 francogrex: bah. Sorry. I remembered wrong. We used "make" to do this --- we couldn't get asdf to do what we wanted. 20:47:53 tcr: I rely on the magic of clbuild... should something be modified in that script? 20:48:11 maybe I need to update swank separately? 20:48:33 ...and I just gave up on getting asdf to run make, and stuck the call to make into the top level of the .asd so it just gets called whenever the system definition is loaded. 20:48:43 LiamH: I would have expected clbuild to pass "-dP" to its cvs command 20:49:03 LiamH: as a quick fix you could probably go into the source directory and run "cvs up -dP" yourself 20:49:14 I just did. 20:49:21 Did it fetch a new file? 20:49:29 no 20:49:36 Same error 20:49:46 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:49:54 Hi guys 20:49:55 Sikander, memo from LiamH: Thanks! A simple fix, but one that completely escaped me. 20:50:02 LiamH: perhaps because it uses the .asd file 20:50:08 tcr: No, I'm wrong, there's only one error now 20:50:10 rpg: couldn't you have a fake system with no components but an in-order-to, that does your "make" call, that your real system depends-on? 20:50:15 (lame, but...) 20:50:17 actually, it calls "cvs co". no idea what exactly that does if a file exists. 20:50:17 LiamH: Ok? 20:50:35 tcr: I don't know what you mean. 20:50:35 lichtblau: cvs co to update? 20:50:41 rpg: oh well, it's a shame. ECL has a nice asdf:make-build that makes a fasl file from many asdfs. I was hoping something similar exists for sbcl. 20:50:41 presumably everyone who has ever used it was running it with a sane .cvsrc anyway 20:50:46 LiamH: I mean what's the error? 20:50:54 Krystof: I thought about doing that, but then my colleague pointed out to me that my fussy asdf-twiddling was wasting time that should go to actually producing code for the project. 20:51:18 LiamH annotated #90606 "new error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90606#1 20:51:23 francogrex: Oh, you /can/ do that --- it's just that it's easier to do in make than in asdf... 20:51:27 tcr: yes, cvs co to update 20:51:47 LiamH: No it's actually the same 20:51:54 I'm wondering about WARNING: Not reloading SWANK. Package already exists. 20:51:59 Krystof: What would be better would be if there was a phony target I could drop into my system at a particular location, and then use /that/ to trigger the make. 20:52:26 Krystof: but a little tricky to make a phony target that wouldn't trigger extra, bogus recompiles and re-loads downstream. 20:52:37 rpg: Ah, I have a monster.core, and swank may be built in to that. 20:52:38 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:52:38 rpg: (:static-file "README" :in-order-to ...)? 20:52:45 sorry tcr, not rpg 20:53:16 Krystof: ah. An interesting idea. I'll see if I can make it work.... 20:53:34 Wow the file printed there is actually totally wrong 20:53:36 tcr: Indeed, my monster.core has swank in it. 20:53:47 it's not the file the error actually comes from 20:54:26 The reason that that file defines a method on a generic function where another method is the culprit for the error 20:54:34 s/that/is/1 20:54:56 I gotta go. I hope you'll sort it out. 20:55:02 me too 20:55:08 (If not, sorry, for making you update :-)) 20:55:24 ( hmm no cvs downdate is there...) 20:55:42 look for swank-match.lisp in the base directory, not in contrib/ 20:55:45 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:57:07 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 20:57:47 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 20:58:43 -!- rares1 [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 20:59:17 (quit) 20:59:23 damn 20:59:48 -!- francogrex [n=user@251.44-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:01:27 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@98.210.192.23] has quit [] 21:03:56 LiamH annotated #90606 "Trying to do slime-query-replace-system" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90606#2 21:04:05 aieee, I suck at web design 21:04:20 minion: memo for tcr: See http://paste.lisp.org/display/90606#2 21:04:21 Remembered. I'll tell tcr when he/she/it next speaks. 21:04:38 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:41 Hi Sikander 21:04:59 or maybe I suck at web implementation 21:05:53 LiamH: I saw your changes. 21:06:27 -!- ruediger_ [n=quassel@93-82-4-188.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:07:18 Sikander: Good. I'm slowly making my way to FFT test generation. It requires some changes to my test generation functions, because I've always previously used the results the form itself returned, not what another form returns. 21:07:37 LiamH: How can we use float-equal from lisp-unit? 21:07:40 LiamH: Aha 21:07:56 LiamH: How does that work, you compare the results of the form to something that's hard-coded? 21:08:16 Sikander: And I realized that I made a small mistaken assumption: if the length is a power of 2, I automatically call the radix2 routines; in the GSL tests, they test both. 21:09:17 LiamH: No problem, because you automatically test the radix2 for powers of two for lengths from 1 to 99, and for the others you test non-radix2 21:09:18 Sikander: Yes. But the source of that code has always been the output of the form at some previous time, maybe checked against another source (like the GSL source code for the GSL tests). Now I want to use the DFT output. 21:09:33 LiamH: Aha 21:10:04 LiamH: The only problem with automatic switching, is that GSL tests power-of-two lengths using also the non-radix2 routines 21:10:12 Sikander: Right, but it is possible (in GSL) to call the "non-radix2" (which are just general length) with a power of 2 length. 21:10:24 Right 21:10:37 LiamH: You can still do that. 21:10:43 But I'm happy with it as is if you are. 21:10:44 LiamH: In the test, I mean 21:10:54 LiamH: I'm happy 21:11:03 LiamH: I'm always happy (more or less) 21:11:11 any idea why slime + sbcl would apear as a simple * and not CL-USER> when initialized? 21:11:24 it worked fine with clisp, do I have to set anything else? 21:11:47 Sikander: good. If I had a real FFT problem to solve that came in a radix2 length, I can't see why I'd want to use the general routine. 21:12:18 LiamH: Probably one would do that if one is too lazy to write the if. Luckily, your wrapper function already does that. 21:12:46 (the if clause to check the length, that is) 21:12:59 Sikander: re lisp-unit, did you figure out the answer to your float-equal question? 21:13:14 *LiamH* casts a glance at tmh 21:13:38 tmh told me: wrap the float-equal tests with a let form setting *measure* to :infinity 21:14:03 Sikander: That advice was wrong. 21:14:10 D'oh! 21:14:11 Sikander: Oh, right. That's if we want to make sure we duplicate the exact test criteria of GSL. 21:14:13 Nuts! 21:14:16 Hmmm. Donuts... 21:14:23 Sikander: Unless you are using the lastest repository 21:14:38 tmh: latest lisp-unit? Yes, I am. 21:14:43 hi, I'm trying to catch an error. (defun error-foo () (unwind-protect (print *not-defined*))) still throws me to a debugger error. how can I let it continue without repl intervention? 21:14:55 unwind-protect protects against unwinds, not errors 21:15:07 you want handler-case, probably 21:15:10 Sikander:Ok, I merged the expanded-interface back into master. I ran the tests on GSLL and only had a few failed tests. Are you still having problems? 21:15:11 Krystof: thanks 21:15:16 LiamH: Where do you write the lisp-unit forms for testing purposes? All I can see is that they are auto-generated 21:15:17 Sikander: I think our criteria can be relaxed to use the lisp-unit default. We'd probably come out OK. 21:15:33 egn: (but you also want to think about the difference between unwind protection and handling errors) 21:15:40 tmh: I'm not in the implementing stage yet *shame* 21:15:41 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:15:53 LiamH: I agree. 21:16:04 Krystof: okay, I'll check it out 21:16:08 Sikander: No problem. Just let me know if you have problems when you get there. 21:16:12 Sikander: I give the path explicitly. It ends up being in tests/. 21:16:26 tmh: Ok, thanks very much 21:16:51 LiamH: But from where do you generate them? Where are the sources, so to speak? 21:17:14 -!- mstevens [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has quit [] 21:17:29 Sikander: test-unit/generate-tests.lisp, but that file is not loaded by any asd file, must be loaded by hand 21:18:01 Sikander: deliberately, given the damage I've caused by autogenerating tests incorrectly 21:18:29 LiamH: So if I understand correctly, you interactively write the tests and those are then auto-generated? 21:18:47 LiamH: So you don't save the "source" from which you autogenerate (or at least, they are not in git)? 21:19:28 tmh pasted "Emacs, Paredit and/or slime error processing documentation strings" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90615 21:19:40 Sikander: The "save-test" part is written by hand, as you know because you've done it. From that, I run execute something like 21:19:42 (write-test-to-file 'interpolation "/home/liam/mathematics/gsll/tests/interpolation.lisp") 21:20:08 LiamH: Ah, right, I get it now (I'm not too bright...) 21:20:10 and that's the file I commit 21:20:19 LiamH: Makes sense 21:20:22 If there is an sexp that starts in the first column of a documentation string, a C-c C-C of the form ends up trying to evaluate the sexp. 21:20:53 Sikander: but this has now changed; in that the optional arg 'answers can be supplied 21:21:07 Sikander: in anticipation of FFT using the DFT as a reference 21:21:30 LiamH: Ok. I'll have a look 21:22:09 Sikander: I noticed last night that GSL not only has the noise test we've been busy porting, but a pulse test (which you ported from the manual) and some other tests as well. 21:22:33 LiamH: Yes, that is correct 21:22:38 mstevens [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has joined #lisp 21:22:54 -!- mstevens [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has quit [Client Quit] 21:22:57 So I'll take a look at those once I've got the noise test in place. 21:23:04 LiamH: actually, the noise test is not complete yet 21:23:26 Sikander: How so? 21:24:27 LiamH: I'm already working on that. The test_real_radix2 and friends also test the backward transform again. 21:24:50 Sikander: Oh, right, I noticed that. 21:24:51 LiamH: If you look carefully, it compares results twice. Once for the forward and once for the backward 21:24:54 Right 21:28:34 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:30:25 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-7-102.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:30:44 porcelina [n=quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:55 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-126-110.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:33:58 what does it mean when a function returns something that's like #? 21:33:59 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:34:07 serichsen annotated #90615 "yep, and the syntax highlighting is also strange" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90615#1 21:34:11 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:17 porcelina: depends on the stuff 21:34:34 porcelina: that's the format for output that isn't directly text-readable back into the internal format 21:34:53 ah 21:35:04 like lambda bodies and such 21:35:51 so if it was inside another function the other function would see the data and not that string? 21:36:08 tmh: by the way, I don't have paredit running 21:36:10 If the function returns a function, then it would print in tha format 21:36:23 however, there are a number of things that don't have a printable format and will get you a #<...> 21:36:31 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 21:36:48 tmh: do you run sbcl, too? 21:36:54 serichsen: Thanks, I was just getting ready to disable Paredit and try it again. 21:37:02 i'm looking at the output of (resolve-host-ipaddr) 21:37:17 i think i got it figured out. :) thanks 21:37:32 serichsen: Yes, I run SBCL. The next test is to COMPILE-FILE the form in a file. But I have to run, I'll be back later. Please leave me a memo if you figure something out. 21:37:41 ok 21:38:19 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 21:38:47 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-26.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:39:27 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:39:32 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:00 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:41:39 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 21:41:39 Sikander: I just remembered there's another issue with duplicating the GSL tests. The random seed is not reset between tests, so if we wanted to use the exact numbers we'd have to make sure the tests are executed in the same order. I don't like that at all; I try to insure that the tests are independent of each other. So I'd like to call (reset-urand) before each test, which means the actual noise will differ from that used in GSL. Does this sound OK? 21:42:34 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-26.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:43:17 LiamH: So you don't want to generate the DFT results at the moment of testing? That would also make them independent of the order of testing... 21:43:17 Elegia [n=Elegia@kotnet-150.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has joined #lisp 21:43:57 LiamH: But yes, it sounds ok to me. 21:43:59 Sikander: No, I was thinking of putting the DFT results literally into the test files for comparison. 21:44:12 <_deepfire> Ok, apparently I need to devise a mechanism in desire for non-trunk following. Slime CVS's breaking my heart... 21:45:17 LiamH: There is a slight problem with forward-fft-rc 21:45:47 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-47-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:46:09 LiamH: for real arrays, we would also like to generate the half-complex-transform of the vector and return it, but for complex ones, we would want both the backward and inverse (if I read the test.c correctly). 21:46:35 Sikander: OK, we can change that. 21:46:46 -!- Elegia [n=Elegia@kotnet-150.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has quit ["Ik ga weg"] 21:47:11 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:47:28 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229081015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 21:47:29 LiamH: I would therefore suggest either naming the function forward-fft-rc differently and let the real and complex cases be handled by two different functions. 21:47:54 Sikander: Sounds good. 21:50:16 (noting the "either" seemed to be followed by one option) 21:50:47 LiamH: yes, I'm trying to remember what the "or" was. 21:50:57 *Sikander* has a _really_ bad memory... 21:50:57 Jabberwock [n=jens@82.113.121.152] has joined #lisp 21:51:40 pickles [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:20 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@p54AD5532.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:53:44 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-079-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:52 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:55:14 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:16 -!- davazp [n=user@156.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:38 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@vipnet88-89.mobile.CARNet.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:57:17 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:59:30 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:00:45 -!- harag [n=Harag@196.2.113.79] has left #lisp 22:03:35 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:03:43 -!- moocow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:07:32 -!- ziga` [n=ziga`@89.142.60.106] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:07:45 -!- rpg [n=rpg@c-75-73-48-133.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:07:46 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:08:01 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:04 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:08:11 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM0018c0b3c272.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 22:09:09 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:18 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:11:45 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:14:03 antifuchs: you still awake? 22:14:42 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["Changing server"] 22:15:02 ziga` [n=ziga`@89.142.60.106] has joined #lisp 22:17:52 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-126-110.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:18:55 antifuchs: ah, I have answered my own question. You can remain asleep 22:22:07 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1B2BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:22:59 segv [n=mb@p4FC1FC7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:45 if i've connected to a socket, what do i use to write to it? 22:27:03 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:27:57 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:12 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:31:38 starchild [n=ali@2001:0:53aa:64c:4ca:6f27:2a30:242c] has joined #lisp 22:31:38 LiamH: What about also generating the input and hard-code it into the tests? 22:32:01 You mean the random vectors? 22:32:17 LiamH: yes 22:32:37 Why? 22:32:50 durbin_ [n=durbin@adsl-99-181-3-9.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:03 LiamH: gsl generates the random vector _and_ the dft immediately. 22:33:19 Yes 22:33:21 LiamH: So why not hard-code them, so that you don't get apparent regressions because of your generating function 22:33:44 OK 22:33:47 LiamH: If you hard-code the dft, why not the input to the dft as well 22:34:02 LiamH: The inverse ffts have to verify against that anyway 22:34:03 -!- mle [n=emily@kuu.accela.net] has quit ["Server buffer killed"] 22:34:29 OK 22:34:37 LiamH: You could maybe generate a few random vectors and their dft's, for the different tests. 22:34:38 Ok 22:35:08 (I'm not saying you *must*, it was a suggestion) 22:35:09 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:35:20 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:35:22 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 22:35:37 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 22:36:08 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:36:08 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1FC7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:36:16 segv [n=mb@p4FC1FC7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:15 I know 22:37:43 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:38:25 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:38:57 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 22:39:31 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:39:43 davazp [n=user@156.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:51 -!- starchild [n=ali@2001:0:53aa:64c:4ca:6f27:2a30:242c] has left #lisp 22:40:50 gz_ [n=gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:59 gz__ [n=gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:41:32 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1279589180.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:43:01 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-24-5-85-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:52 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:45:07 leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:46:33 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:47:23 oh. too bad. I'd almost woken up (: 22:47:46 -!- C-o-r-E [n=nash@modemcable194.43-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:49:35 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 22:50:19 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:51:36 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 22:53:24 moocow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 22:53:37 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:54:09 billitch [n=billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:49 serichsen annotated #90615 "tracing the issue: just don't do that" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90615#2 22:55:26 -!- pickles [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:56:53 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:12 cmsimon [n=cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 22:59:38 tmh: OK, this is really known: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Left-Margin-Paren.html 22:59:38 23:00:14 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-066.iasi.cablelink.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:00:42 serichsen: Back just in time, thanks for the info. 23:01:11 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-131-243-232.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 23:01:13 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@65.217.189.98] has quit [] 23:01:51 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:04:12 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:04:14 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 23:04:31 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:05:50 -!- nha [n=prefect@31-174.4-85.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:07:16 knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 23:07:23 -!- davazp [n=user@156.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:08:11 -!- beauty [n=beauty@83.231.78.132] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:08:18 (pairlis '(:foo :bar) '(1 2)) gives => ((:BAR . 2) (:FOO . 1)), are there a similar function to get => ((:BAR 2) (:FOO 1)) or (:BAR 2 :FOO 1)? 23:09:34 beauty [n=beauty@83.231.50.93] has joined #lisp 23:12:30 out of curiosity - what are you using FFT for in Lisp ? 23:12:44 Sikander: 23:12:46 -!- DrForr_ is now known as DrForr 23:13:02 ziga`: Currently: nothing :( 23:13:13 ziga`: I'm just adding it to gsl 23:13:37 (mapcar #'list list-1 list-2) 23:13:38 Actually, I'm mostly interested in gsll 23:13:38 davazp [n=user@156.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:36 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 23:22:13 -!- Haplo_ [n=hatchond@cau33-1-82-66-14-55.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:24:00 -!- Jabberwock [n=jens@82.113.121.152] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:24:45 ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-13-192.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:25:51 levy pasted "partial evaluating integer power" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90626 23:26:51 with common subexpression elimination 23:31:28 LiamH: Is it possible that elt/ doesn't work when the vector is complex? 23:31:46 Sikander: What version of GSL do you have? 23:32:27 1.12 23:32:57 -!- ziga` [n=ziga`@89.142.60.106] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:33:13 There were some complex math functions missing in GSL, I complained about it, and they were put in. But I thought they got into 1.12. 23:33:50 LiamH: :( Well, if I make a random complex vector and divide that by a real, I get a bunch of nonsense. 23:34:45 emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:00 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-16-129.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:35:45 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 23:36:02 Sikander: I don't see a method for that. There is some MOP function compute-applicable-method-??-?? that will show you what method will be used if you give it the arguments. Can you find out which method it's using? 23:37:18 well there's SB-MOP:COMPUTE-APPLICABLE-METHODS-USING-CLASSES but you have to look up all the classes yourself. 23:37:56 Anyway, I see (DEFMETHOD ELT/ VECTOR-COMPLEX-DOUBLE-FLOAT VECTOR-COMPLEX-DOUBLE-FLOAT) but nothing that mixes complex and real. 23:38:38 LiamH: ah, ok. I'll have a look. But it works (for some reason) with elt*. 23:38:46 Oh, it's sb-mop:compute-applicable-methods 23:39:35 (sb-mop:compute-applicable-methods-using-classes #'elt/ (list (find-class 'vector-complex-double-float) (find-class 'vector-double-float))) gives me NIL. 23:40:05 Same if I do #'elt*. 23:40:27 -!- Nshag [i=user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-4-36.adsl.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:40:55 knobo pasted "worpress replacement" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90627 23:43:10 At a first approximation, how hard would it be to retarget a Lisp compiler? Would I have to just rewrite seven-ish low-level things and all the rest would follow, or would it be Really Hard(tm)? 23:43:15 LiamH: Second should not be vector-double-float but just double-float. sb-mop returns something that looks ok for elt* but the returned thing for elt/ looks weird. 23:43:28 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1279589180.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:43:37 -!- levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-8-243.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 23:43:58 Sikander: Ahh, OK, I misunderstood your problem. There is a generic function (DEFMETHOD ELT/ MARRAY FLOAT) 23:44:10 (#) 23:44:11 Yes 23:44:14 LiamH: Doesn't work 23:44:19 LiamH: It returns garbage 23:44:25 Pavitra it'll be probably hard (tm) depending on how similar architectures are 23:44:29 for a complex vector and a real, that is 23:44:36 Sikander: Here's the def: (defmethod elt/ ((a marray) (x float)) 23:44:36 (elt* a (/ x))) 23:44:45 Pavitra: depends on your standards. 23:44:47 Yeah, I know 23:44:54 When I do that by hand, I get good results 23:44:58 Sikander: Is there an error there? 23:45:06 Dunno, tracking it down now 23:45:32 pkhuong: Standards of what? Difficulty? How fast it runs? 23:45:56 Sikander: I see something odd. 23:45:57 Pavitra: the quality of the port. I'm tempted to show how one could build a minimal backend by calling out to C for everything. 23:46:24 pkhuong: that would make for a nice read 23:46:28 -!- acrid [n=mckay@204.126.146.202] has quit ["leaving"] 23:46:52 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:11 Sikander: No, it's OK. Method being called should be ELT* ((A VECTOR-COMPLEX-DOUBLE-FLOAT) (X FLOAT)), i.e. "gsl_vector_complex_scale" . 23:47:12 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:47:36 LiamH: Wait, maybe there was something wrong with my compile. 23:49:14 LiamH: No, there's definately something off. 23:49:49 elt* also doesn't work, it seems. I don't get it. 23:50:12 Sikander: (elt/ #m(1.0d0 2.0d0 3.0d0 4.0d0) 2.0d0) gives me #, which looks fine to me. 23:50:56 Eko [n=eko@lawn-143-215-109-221.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 23:52:31 LiamH: It works for real vectors, but not for complex ones. 23:52:37 (as I noted before) 23:53:13 LiamH: Haha! 23:53:32 (elt/ #2m(#c(1.0d0 2.0d0) #c(3.0d0 4.0d0)) 2.0d0) 23:53:36 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.30] has joined #lisp 23:53:40 # 23:53:52 LiamH: Weird! If you use a complex vector with imaginary part 0, the elt/ gives interesting results for me! the real and imaginary parts are equal! 23:54:08 Why does this work for you?! 23:54:20 Wait, deleting fasls... again... 23:54:26 Yup, I see that. 23:54:50 (elt/ #2m(#c(1.0d0 0.0d0) #c(3.0d0 0.0d0)) 2.0d0) -> # 23:54:59 Hah! 23:55:01 I don't think that's fasl related. 23:55:06 Yes, that's screwed up, isn't it? 23:55:25 Is GSL doing that, or is that crapulance in GSLL? 23:55:34 *Sikander* shrugs. 23:55:45 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 23:56:16 It's getting late again, and I have to get to bed since I have a long day of experimenting ahead of me. 23:56:41 OK, have a nice snooze, and good experiments tomorrow. 23:56:47 I'll try to dig into this tonight. 23:57:31 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.216.165] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 23:57:59 LiamH: Wait, it is a fasl problem! It works fine now ?!?! 23:58:08 Oh no. 23:58:26 I bet it isn't, I bet it's because you restarted your lisp. 23:58:43 We must be scribbling in some part of memory we're not supposed to. 23:59:04 LiamH: Yes, that's it. after being ok once, it craps out the second time 23:59:16 Are you using SBCL? 23:59:36 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224044029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]