00:00:17 -!- majhool [n=mrw@user-118bgr6.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:00:18 rahul: no, it's easy to hide in a macro. 00:00:24 because you need to implement the extensibility in two ways. local and heap 00:00:29 eh, probably 00:00:49 another point in the lisp column :) 00:01:07 anyway, I'm gonna go out 00:01:12 rahul, i'm changing it to a list, i'm porting c++ code, and its colouring my choices, a list is definitely are more fitting choice for this, i don't need random access, and it is LIFO 00:01:12 a decent C compiler doesn't need a macro to get that right. 00:01:14 how is adjustability implemented in sbcl? copying an array to a new place? 00:01:17 see you all later 00:01:24 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@95.35.140.128] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:01:28 only thing is it had a max size, i'll just keep a count 00:01:31 pkhuong: right vs. easy to use are two different things 00:02:01 rahul: vector_push(value, &extensible_vector) qualifies as easy to me. 00:02:03 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:02:06 Guthur: max size is probably only there because it's a fixed size array. 00:02:47 pkhuong: that won't be inlined as a local variable manipulation instead of a data structure access tho 00:02:54 (when appropriate) 00:02:55 ya i have considered removing it, but i'm not sure if it is a possibility that it may be used as a search limit 00:03:00 rahul: yes, it will. 00:03:16 pkhuong: only if the vector struct fits in a register, I guess 00:03:16 its for a physics collision query system 00:03:22 rahul: not even. 00:03:48 Guthur: well, you can get rid of it later if it's extraneous 00:04:18 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.196.62] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 00:04:23 ya i will make a note 00:04:28 pkhuong: so where is the slowness in lisp's full call aref? 00:04:36 just in lisp's function call overhead? 00:05:15 rahul: compared to what C does, or compared to my hand rolled version? 00:05:27 pkhuong: well, both, I guess 00:05:38 majhool [n=mrw@user-118bgr6.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:54 Compared to the hand-rolled version, full call, yes, especially when the element type doesn't box nicely. 00:05:58 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:06:13 ok, yeah 00:06:48 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:06:49 Compared to C, the struct doesn't get scalarised. 00:07:23 in that you can put it on the stack? 00:07:45 in that you can put it in two registers. 00:08:00 yeah. ("local" storage) 00:08:05 ok 00:08:10 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["leaving"] 00:08:22 anyway, I'm gonna head out. later. 00:10:45 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 00:10:57 danlei` [n=user@82.113.121.153] has joined #lisp 00:11:00 -!- danlei [n=user@82.113.106.84] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:11:04 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 00:11:45 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-1-243.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 00:14:49 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 00:18:11 crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has joined #lisp 00:18:43 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-94-1.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:19:29 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 00:22:15 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-67-170-39-104.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 00:22:19 Arelius [n=Indy@208.87.217.194] has joined #lisp 00:22:26 -!- chris2 [n=zhora@dslb-188-099-122-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:22:42 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:24:55 Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:27 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:32:58 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:35 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:34:35 colton [n=colton@ip72-220-44-155.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:56 How would you properly append an an atom to a list in lisp? 00:35:31 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["bye bye"] 00:37:10 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A8F04.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:38:23 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-dxhvqqrwpjlqpeno] has quit [] 00:38:46 (cons atom list) 00:39:35 to the butt of the list 00:39:46 clhs append 00:40:00 but appending to the end isn't efficient 00:40:12 clhs append? 00:40:20 what is clhs? 00:40:33 (append list (list atom))? 00:41:16 colton: at this point specbot should come under the spotlight and show you a link to the documentation 00:41:24 I see, thx. 00:41:39 http://l1sp.org/cl/append 00:42:15 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:38 -!- cvandusen [n=cvanduse@99-166-72-116.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:44:25 specbot seems to be on strike more and more these days 00:46:54 -!- nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:48:57 If you were to implement a function which removed all-level instances of a given atom from a given list, would you need probably need to include the length of the list as a parameter? 00:49:20 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:49:54 no 00:52:20 How do you check if a parameter is a number? 00:52:30 colton: numberp would help there 00:53:04 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:16 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 01:01:17 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483D2EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:01:53 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:03:48 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.197.64] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:05:22 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-131-243-232.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 01:05:35 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:53 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:09:53 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:12:42 minion: Ping? 01:12:42 Ping: pong 01:13:53 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:14:17 danlei` [n=user@82.113.106.151] has joined #lisp 01:14:21 -!- danlei [n=user@82.113.121.153] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:14:24 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 01:17:06 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6FE7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 01:17:15 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-135-34.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:21:33 demmeln1 [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-202-136.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:22 -!- Mathieu [n=mlegrand@cm36.sigma98.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 01:26:20 How do you check if a list is nil? 01:26:40 colton: (null list) 01:26:44 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:27:31 -!- aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:27:41 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 01:27:42 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-46-123.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 01:28:25 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:01 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:07 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:31 minion: Ping? 01:34:31 Ping: pong 01:34:34 Good enough. 01:35:02 minion: pong? 01:35:02 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``pong''. 01:36:12 mikezor [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:37:56 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:47 What is a "Continuable error" ? 01:45:14 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_c.htm#continuable 01:46:52 How do I get the interpreter to stop printing and ABORT :R65 Abort :R66 . . . every time there's an error? 01:47:11 davazp [n=user@156.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:21 colton: you are in lots of nested debuggers, you should exit back to the top before doing something else 01:47:33 those seem to be vailable restarts you can invoke, there must also be a way to return to the top level 01:47:46 s/vailable/available/ 01:47:56 k thanks. 01:48:22 What's with the mehorah logo for clisp? 01:49:22 colton: read the clisp FAQ 01:52:51 colton: btw, I highly recommend http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ as it answers all the questions you asked so far (including sections on the debuggers), except for the clisp-specific question :) 01:54:03 thx 01:55:36 -!- centipedefarmer [n=nothingH@173-25-176-111.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:02 superjoe [n=superjoe@149.169.130.97] has joined #lisp 02:08:21 what would the equivalent of python's open("file.txt").read() be in lisp? 02:08:23 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1279589180.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:10:01 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:44 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 02:12:03 superjoe: what does open(...).read() do? 02:12:26 returns the entire file contents in a single string 02:12:33 I found this: http://www.cl-user.net/asp/LRyv/sdataQGclcIcHZI70DQ3YNypX8yBX8yBXnMq=/sdataQu3F$sSHnB== 02:12:38 I think it'll do the trick nicely 02:22:00 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:22:47 superjoe: there are a few different techniques for character files 02:23:06 I'm listening 02:23:27 well, just in contrast to binary files, where you can just say the number of octets in the file are the number of elements in the resulting array 02:23:47 with character files, the encoding might mean that there are fewer elements in the result than octets in the file 02:24:07 mmhmm 02:25:23 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 02:27:15 <_3b> does anything in the spec prohibit there being more characters than octets in a file? 02:27:53 _3b: my guess is no. 02:28:24 i don't think the form external-formats might take is detailed. 02:29:18 -!- george__ [n=george@189.107.206.93] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:30:19 _3b: :external-format :gzascii :) 02:30:47 <_3b> yeah, that is what i was thinking, or some unicode normalizations 02:31:45 <_3b> or i suppose, packed sixbit or something :) 02:39:27 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:39:38 TR2N [i=email@89-180-185-102.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 02:39:42 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.134.163] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:47:22 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:48:01 -!- Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:48:04 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:57 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 02:52:15 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1279589180.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:58:05 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:59:50 -!- davazp [n=user@156.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:05:05 -!- dreish_ [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:10:40 how to you write true in lisP/ 03:11:04 nm 03:11:20 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 03:13:00 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:14:29 -!- danlei [n=user@82.113.106.151] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:18:00 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 03:20:14 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:58 msphix [n=msphix@aarq137.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 03:23:07 msphix_ [i=5305ca89@gateway/web/freenode/x-hhhymxlujvehdqlm] has joined #lisp 03:23:15 -!- msphix_ [i=5305ca89@gateway/web/freenode/x-hhhymxlujvehdqlm] has quit [Client Quit] 03:26:31 -!- msphix [n=msphix@aarq137.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #lisp 03:28:21 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBB531.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:28:50 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit ["·"] 03:29:09 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-67-170-39-104.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:24 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sgisnueqxnwlgxky] has joined #lisp 03:30:26 -!- Axioplase [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:32:07 Axioplase [n=Axioplas@130.34.188.206] has joined #lisp 03:34:09 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:35:22 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:35:34 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 03:36:35 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:39:28 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:40:46 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:42:00 envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 03:42:41 -!- metasyntax` [n=taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Nichts mehr."] 03:43:38 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-130-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:46:10 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBB202.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:49:06 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:50:41 How can you check if an element is a list? 03:52:12 listp 03:52:40 benny [n=benny@i577A86EC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:55:09 billstclair [n=billstcl@dsl-74-209-25-128.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:36 billstclai [n=billstcl@dsl-74-209-25-128.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:58 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@dsl-74-209-25-128.taconic.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:07:21 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sgisnueqxnwlgxky] has left #lisp 04:08:57 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:09:30 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sskhpwkvafpohmfd] has joined #lisp 04:09:44 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sskhpwkvafpohmfd] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:10:39 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:12:20 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uqlugkrmzrunzbcq] has joined #lisp 04:15:50 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:20 -!- Drakeson [n=user@69-196-172-71.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:28:04 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279774745.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 04:28:15 -!- colton [n=colton@ip72-220-44-155.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:28:59 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 04:29:31 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 04:31:10 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-064-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:42 Drakeson [n=user@69.196.172.71] has joined #lisp 04:37:52 How can I securely connect to a lisp using swank? If I use a port number, everyone else on the same machine can connect to the running lisp instance. 04:38:20 with a password 04:39:29 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001a704b7fbe.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:40:04 which should go in the .slime-secret file 04:40:09 ~/.slime-secret 04:40:18 isn't there a better way, for instance using unix sockets? 04:40:42 why don't you like that way? 04:41:02 because for every repl I have to type a password? 04:41:11 no 04:41:19 just put some gibberish into ~/.slime-secret and make it unreadable 04:42:01 stassats: aah, I see. thanks. 04:42:22 unreadable by other users, of course 04:42:30 stassats: ;) 04:42:34 still, can swank not use unix sockets? 04:43:42 well, it can, but you need to program it to do so 04:44:07 Dawgmatix_ [n=dman@c-76-124-3-89.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:56 do you mean it is not implemented? 04:45:07 yep 04:45:14 I see. thanks. 04:45:52 it wouldn't be hard, but there's not reason to implement it 04:46:32 btw, can I bind "C-d" at the end-of-buffer to do slime-disconnect ? 04:46:49 (like many shells do) 04:47:17 ,disconnect does this 04:47:26 shorter: ,di 04:47:36 C-d is more natural :D 04:47:58 -!- demmeln1 [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-202-136.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:48:43 I discovered that I *always* press C-d one or a few times before remembering that "this repl is different"! 04:49:38 isn't this what a ssh tunnel is supposed to solve? 04:49:43 well, you can, but i don't advice it: (define-key slime-repl-mode-map "\C-d" (lambda () (interactive) (when (eobp) (slime-repl-disconnect)))) 04:49:55 lnostdal: not on the same machine 04:50:54 ohyeah .. (VPS is a better idea anyway..) 04:53:09 stassats: why do you not advice it? 04:53:32 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:54:00 or better (define-key slime-repl-mode-map "\C-d" (lambda (n) (interactive "p") (if (eobp) (slime-repl-disconnect) (delete-char n)))) 04:54:20 Drakeson: i don't like it, but you can go as crazy as you want 04:54:24 -!- Dawgmatix_ [n=dman@c-76-124-3-89.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:55:19 Drakeson: or you want it to disconnect only if the input is clear? that's what my zsh does 04:56:13 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:57:01 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 04:57:33 stassats: thanks, I am also looking to what comint does. apparently it also checks if (= (point) (marker-position (process-mark proc))) 04:57:54 -!- badipod [n=badipod@110.32.146.200] has quit [Client Quit] 04:58:24 what's the answer to my last question? 05:00:14 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-195-97.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:10 it is positive, but I didn't want to bother you any further 05:04:24 -!- TDT [n=dthole@35.154.55.67.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [] 05:05:10 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:05:46 Drakeson: it's ok, http://paste.lisp.org/display/90461 05:05:52 forgot to enter channel name 05:06:39 stassats: thanks. that's cool. 05:06:42 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.77.68.159] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:13:01 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-195-97.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:13:10 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["off"] 05:13:49 gwg [n=gwg@65.78.164.174] has joined #lisp 05:14:01 -!- gwg [n=gwg@65.78.164.174] has left #lisp 05:21:11 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:22:13 Modius_ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:25:20 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-064-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:26:27 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:05 Good morning! 05:28:06 -!- Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:29:15 -!- Retardedpope [n=Retarded@c-66-56-9-145.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:30:33 konr [n=konrad@201.82.134.163] has joined #lisp 05:30:53 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:31:22 -!- beauty [i=3e164621@gateway/web/freenode/x-rghaxpboyzkkjngm] has quit ["Page closed"] 05:31:25 oudeis [n=oudeis@95.35.243.16] has joined #lisp 05:35:37 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 05:41:10 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 05:43:22 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:46:57 Kolyan[away] [n=nartamon@89-178-40-207.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:48:09 -!- Kolyan[away] is now known as Kolyan 05:50:15 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:51:18 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.134.163] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:52:44 konr [n=konrad@201.82.134.163] has joined #lisp 05:54:24 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:31 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:57:58 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:58 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:01:04 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:26 -!- ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:06:38 ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:07:46 nipra [n=nipra@117.195.97.0] has joined #lisp 06:11:02 Axius [n=ade@92.84.24.124] has joined #lisp 06:13:35 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:13:43 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 06:15:45 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 06:19:17 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:24:59 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 06:25:30 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest14586 06:26:21 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-18.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:27:01 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:28:32 G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.97.222] has joined #lisp 06:32:00 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:33:00 -!- nipra [n=nipra@117.195.97.0] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:37:37 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-94-1.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:37:45 -!- superjoe [n=superjoe@149.169.130.97] has left #lisp 06:38:00 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-18.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:07 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001a704b7fbe.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:07 redblue [i=star@ppp014.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:43:47 beauty [n=beauty@83.231.53.201] has joined #lisp 06:44:02 morning 06:44:13 -!- Guest14586 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 06:46:34 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:46:54 vng [n=user@123.20.114.73] has joined #lisp 06:47:32 hello beauty, I asked you a question yesterday, but you never answered. I asked you whether you are new here. 06:47:43 ska` [n=user@203.146.146.169] has joined #lisp 06:48:09 Hello vng. 06:48:18 hello beach 06:48:37 vng: How are things going? 06:49:49 beach oh what question? 06:49:57 we are justifying our code as you comment 06:50:24 ah 06:50:29 beach: and will send you soon 06:51:01 beach: But i don't know how the other group is 06:51:16 beach_ yup knowing ppl is nice 06:52:50 vng: OK. 06:53:24 beauty: Are you a Lisp newbie? 06:53:44 a cl newbie yes 06:54:04 but we use lisp at work everyday (a dialect, not cl) 06:54:31 I see. What dialect is that? 06:55:13 it is developed in house, is similar to cl but smaller 06:55:25 it has no CLOS 06:55:33 lacks "loop" and a lot of other things 06:55:43 Amazing! Where are you working? 06:56:05 i work for hp 06:56:40 I had no idea HP did Lisp stuff, and even implemented their own dialect. 06:56:41 well, not really but a small company which develops software for hp 06:56:48 Is that an old system? 06:56:59 it's like a subsidiary i don't know the word in english 06:57:03 nostoi [n=nostoi@182.Red-79-151-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:19 it runs on HP-UX and other unixes 06:57:39 they have tons of that things 06:58:58 ASau [n=user@host170-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:59:43 beauty: Yeah, I kind of know how things work. The guy who did it had a lot of fun, but it's probably not a good business decision. But that's how things work at big companies. 06:59:44 there are also SCOs and older systems, but i've never used them 07:00:51 in hp there is a lot of that business, they hire smaller companies to do things with their partners 07:02:13 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.235] has joined #lisp 07:06:08 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@182.Red-79-151-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 07:06:53 -!- G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.97.222] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 07:14:05 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001a704b7fbe.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 07:14:56 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.84.24.124] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:16:46 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:16:51 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:03 -!- stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-152-85.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:19:48 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:21:06 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:38 demmeln [n=Adium@188.104.85.104] has joined #lisp 07:30:55 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:35:25 morning 07:36:45 robewald_ [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:04 hello nikodemus 07:38:05 07:38:23 -!- robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:38:30 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 07:39:22 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:32 pipa [n=pipa@ip-213-49-126-61.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #lisp 07:45:28 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@188.104.85.104] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:47:18 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:48:41 clapautius [n=me@188.26.53.228] has joined #lisp 07:52:06 this looks interesting: http://jacobian.org/writing/great-documentation/ 07:55:07 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:59:43 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:01:27 gustav2adolf [n=root@213.180.77.81] has joined #lisp 08:01:31 hello 08:02:54 I have a an array like this (make-array '(5 5)), and I'm wondering how I can get an entire "line" of it? 08:03:24 ie the 5 first elements (the entire row 1) 08:04:10 is this possible? 08:05:02 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:05:43 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:32 (defparameter *a* (make-array '(5 5))) 08:06:33 (defparameter *slice* (make-array 5 :displaced-to *a*)) 08:06:33 (fill *slice* 'x) 08:08:30 note that your displaced array doesn't have to follow the "natural" rows of the original: (fill (make-array 5 :displaced-to *a* :displaced-index-offset 7) 'y) 08:08:39 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:09:34 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@80.14.131.214] has joined #lisp 08:09:43 interesting, thanks 08:09:50 good morning 08:10:03 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:10:14 gustav2adolf: what do you want this for? 08:11:13 nikodemus: I'm making a game (for an assignment) and I have this board with (square) fields and I'm trying to find a nice way to get all the surrounding fields 08:13:03 ok. no idea if displaced arrays are a good match for that or not -- but at least they don't sound completely wrong :) 08:13:12 :) 08:14:00 Jabberwockey [n=jens@84.46.78.207] has joined #lisp 08:16:29 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 08:20:40 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:20:46 nikodemus: hmm, the indexing (so to speak) starts at the first row first column and then steps through the entire first row, right? 08:22:53 clhs: array-row-major-index 08:22:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ar_row.htm 08:23:15 clhs: row-major-aref 08:23:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_row_ma.htm 08:23:49 ah sweet, cheers 08:24:21 hello 08:25:04 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.221.224] has joined #lisp 08:25:59 Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-121-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 08:26:09 maus [n=maus@222.253.105.36] has joined #lisp 08:26:35 Good afternoon! 08:27:08 I've been browsing the hyperspec aimlessly for a few minutes now and can't find the function I'm thinking of. It takes in a list, a lambda, and a starting value and runs the lambda on each value of the list and the most recently returned value. Useful for implementing a general product/sum. Any ideas? 08:27:35 clhs: reduce 08:27:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_reduce.htm 08:27:43 that's it! Thanks =D 08:28:09 except it takes any sequence, not just a list 08:28:46 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@88.73.251.254] has joined #lisp 08:29:30 morning 08:34:26 aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:37:23 kmc [n=keegan@206-71-236-70.c3-0.nyw-ubr5.nyr-nyw.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 08:39:40 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:42:12 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@84.46.78.207] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:44:02 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:45:10 TR2N` [i=email@89.180.140.6] has joined #lisp 08:45:42 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:51:28 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-9410.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 08:52:14 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:53:05 -!- pipa [n=pipa@ip-213-49-126-61.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:54:08 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 08:54:28 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:54:28 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:54:43 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-185-102.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:54:45 nikodemus: hi, I'm reading the code of your sb-cga. in your type declaration, you always decalre the function type (sfunction ...), I looked at SBCL's source code, it says "similar to function but the result type is "exactly" specified:", I'm wondering what kind of optimization does it enable? 08:55:29 -!- crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:58:18 -!- gustav2adolf [n=root@213.180.77.81] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 08:58:45 huangjs: no ambiguity about number of return values 08:58:53 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:59:05 (sfunction (foo) bar) is the same as (function (foo) (values bar &optional)) I think 09:03:15 ejs [n=eugen@63.251.108.100] has joined #lisp 09:06:21 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:06:42 Modius_ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:07:00 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:07:10 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:07:10 -!- vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:07:14 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 09:07:32 vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:08:00 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 09:09:05 yep, that's it 09:10:07 -!- billstclai is now known as billstclair 09:11:40 i don't think it allows any optimizations that matter for sb-cga, really 09:13:08 i see 09:13:30 sysop_fb [n=bleh@72-11-239-10.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:41 <_3b> nikodemus: any interest in adding support for other lisps to sb-cga? 09:14:55 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 09:15:02 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06cba0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:05 good morning 09:20:02 aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:20:48 pipa [n=pipa@ip-213-49-126-121.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #lisp 09:21:20 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 09:22:04 howdy 09:22:14 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:22:28 _3b: not by me 09:23:00 _3b: if someone gives me a patch, i can read it and comment on it -- and if it looks nice and doesn't make life harder for me commit it 09:23:40 <_3b> nikodemus: http://github.com/3b/sb-cga :) 09:24:27 <_3b> (probably not the last commit though, that was done wrong) 09:24:45 _3b: add file constants.lisp, and +quiet-nan+ there, preferably 09:24:53 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 09:24:59 <_3b> and from the previous discussion, i'd probably change the sfunction to function instead of #+sbcl on them 09:25:27 add a file with (deftype sfunction ...) rather 09:25:46 <_3b> or that, if that would have the same effect 09:25:57 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 09:26:14 basically, i don't want to have #+sbcl #-sbcl in files that don't exist for the sole purpose of dealing with portability 09:26:20 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp014.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:27:47 if tests move away from SB-RT, they can move to RT on sbcl as well 09:27:52 legumbre_ [n=leo@190.135.42.252] has joined #lisp 09:27:57 <_3b> actually, looking at it again, vm1.lisp seems entirely sbcl specific, so i should probably have just not loaded that at all 09:28:11 (or i can be persuaded to use another test framework as well) 09:29:09 *_3b* has no opinion on the testing stuff 09:29:21 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-43-87.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:29:54 <_3b> i don't think there were any changes for RT aside from loading it 09:30:14 the package name is problematic 09:30:42 re. vm1.lisp, yes. though if you want the code to be nice and fast, you will want to have something comparable for CCL as well 09:30:50 trittweiler: RT or SB-CGA? 09:30:52 and that rt has one global registry -- I always ship a copy of rt.lisp with my projects 09:30:56 ah 09:30:57 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-130-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:31:40 the package name (making it RT) because Lispwoks has RT as a nickname for their RUNTIME package 09:31:45 +is problematic 09:32:07 _3b: you also want to have a #-sbcl (defmacro defknown ...) somewhere, which declaims the types 09:32:56 because those functions that have a defknown don't have a proclaimed type anywhere 09:33:00 <_3b> right, that was just trying to get it to the point of running, so i could use it for a demo intended to be portable (but not caring about speed) 09:33:23 though if CCL doesn't benefit from types, you can just expand into nothing, of course... 09:33:50 is SBCL the dominant open-source Common Lisp implementation? 09:34:10 <_3b> kmc: in some areas, less so in others 09:34:18 _3b: i would advice you to not use the exported %FOO functions. they are liable to go away, and be replaced with something else 09:34:22 kmc, only here in #lisp 09:34:37 <_3b> kmc: ccl compiles faster, ecl is more embeddable, clisp is more portable, almost all of them have smaller cores than sbcl 09:35:19 if i'm learning Lisp and just playing around, what should i use? 09:35:29 but several sbcl developers hang here, so it gets most votes :) 09:35:39 <_3b> kmc: sbcl or ccl, with emacs+slime 09:35:55 cool 09:36:36 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 09:37:33 _3b: oh, you also probably want to fork from my github repo :) 09:37:55 <_3b> nikodemus: yeah, that was one of the reasons i was asking :) 09:37:59 hah 09:38:22 <_3b> now all i need to do is find some time to redo the porting and fix the repo :) 09:39:10 i'll add some porting notes to NOTES (stuff that i've said above, mostly) 09:44:19 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:44:47 fiveop [n=fiveop@92.229.82.86] has joined #lisp 09:48:58 lispm [n=joswig@g224047098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:53:57 nikodemus pasted "porting notes for sb-cga" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90474 09:54:34 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@95.35.243.16] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:54:46 _3b: does that answer your questions (if you imagine i hadn't spoken with you yet), and does it seem reasonable? 09:55:39 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uqlugkrmzrunzbcq] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:57:44 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yjirsnjpzpnxnvgu] has joined #lisp 09:58:32 clog_ [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 10:01:04 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 10:03:46 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:04:03 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:04:05 -!- clog_ is now known as clog 10:04:08 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@92.195.152.115] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:05:10 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:09:56 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 10:12:11 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 10:12:14 badipod [n=badipod@110.32.140.61] has joined #lisp 10:12:24 -!- ejs [n=eugen@63.251.108.100] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:12:31 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:12:47 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 10:13:12 <_3b> nikodemus: yeah, i think so 10:13:17 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-249.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:14:52 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:15:00 <_3b> nikodemus: is #+ #- ok in package.lisp (or using alexandria instead of sb-* stuff on sbcl too)? 10:16:36 using alexandria is fine 10:16:41 -!- badipod [n=badipod@110.32.140.61] has quit [K-lined] 10:17:01 -!- envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:17:03 i left it out originally because sb-int had everything i needed, and i was at one point considering this for contribhood 10:18:48 badipod [n=badipod@110.32.140.61] has joined #lisp 10:24:07 Athas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:24:11 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:28:13 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:33:21 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 10:37:56 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:38:11 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:38:40 -!- badipod [n=badipod@110.32.140.61] has quit [Client Quit] 10:42:32 nareshov [n=nareshov@unaffiliated/nareshov] has joined #lisp 10:47:28 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:48:57 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32EFC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:39 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 10:51:52 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-1-243.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:54:55 -!- pipa [n=pipa@ip-213-49-126-121.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:55:00 howdy. If I want to turn on global optimization, is that enough just to put "(proclaim '(optimize (speed 3) (safety 1)))" into package.lisp file? My app uses ASDF and all lisp files depend on package.lisp. 10:57:57 -!- ASau [n=user@host170-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Running away."] 10:58:41 demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:59:43 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-64-130.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 11:01:39 ska`: AFAIK the only _portable_ solution is to put a declare into each and every DEFUN, which is what Edi Weitz does. 11:02:14 It has been requested to make asdf do that automatically 11:02:20 I'm not certain which Lisp leaks which declaration from which evaluation phase into what other evaluation phase and how or whether compilation units enter into it though. Would be nice if someone who knows could blog about that. 11:02:36 trittweiler: that would be awesome 11:02:57 centipedefarmer [n=nothingH@173-25-176-111.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 11:03:03 thanks for the info 11:03:34 <_3b> putting declarations in each defun also has the advantage of avoiding huge amounts of spam from sbcl about functions that didn't need to be fast in the first place :) 11:04:11 <_3b> (assuming of course you don't just put them in every function anyway) 11:04:43 Oh it's about function granularity; I'm sorry I misread that. 11:05:05 ASDF could compile files with certain optimization settings 11:05:22 leo2007 [n=leo@193.60.95.74] has joined #lisp 11:05:23 no, the original question was about ASDF-project-granularity, I think. 11:05:27 I just find it inconvenient to chenge between debug and optimization mode if putting into each file. Currently I do this putting this form in the header. 11:05:45 <_3b> putting them in individual functions is also less confusing when you recompile just that function 11:05:51 ska`, In general, you only optimize a few functions 11:06:10 <_3b> ska`: you might look at options for enforcing debug regarless of the settings in teh file for that purpose 11:06:39 ska`, Also notice that in Slime+SBCL, C-u C-c C-c will compile the defun with maximum debug settings 11:06:53 and M-- C-c C-c will compile a defun with maximum speed settings 11:07:50 Personally I would like to be able to set default optimization settings for my entire project. (I'm happy to use manual declares for the few functions that need special settings.) 11:08:40 What's important is that it doesn't leak into other projects, and ideally SLIME should know about it, and use the right setting for C-c C-c. 11:08:47 File-level granularity rather than project-level would also be OK. 11:10:00 the bit about C-c C-c would not be that difficult once I get off my ass and properly add support for named-readtables 11:10:10 trittweiler, I'm reading the slides of your sequence-iterators talk. nice job. 11:10:46 one of the main reasons for hu.dwim.def (formerly cl-def) was to be able to control optimizations and inlining at a defun level granularity, while at the same time being able to give global constraints (e.g. loading everything in debugging mode). and optimized, inlined defun is like this (def (function oi) foo ...)), but you can use long version like (def (function :optimize ...) foo ...)) 11:10:47 trittweiler, I wonder whether si includes a functional interface besides its looping/iterator facilities. 11:11:32 lpolzer, What kind of functional interface? 11:11:45 think mapcar 11:11:56 MAP is in the standard 11:12:11 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 11:12:48 lpolzer, trittweiler and I are working on an implementation of the CL sequence library using sequence-iterators 11:12:52 trittweiler, but it doesn't do away with the vector/list difference 11:12:59 -!- attila_lendvai is now known as alendvai 11:13:23 lpolzer: MAP works on all sequences 11:13:50 lpolzer, sequence-iterators doesn't do that either -- you could easily implement dosequence, dosequences* on top of MAP except for the :from-end bit 11:13:53 nikodemus, yes but as far as I understand one aim of si is that you don't have to know whether you're dealing with a vector or list 11:14:22 lpolzer: wanting to not know that is a bad thing imo 11:14:29 lpolzer, That's true. For that purpose, I thought of providing a sequence-type-of function so you could do (map (sequence-type-of sequence) ...) 11:15:07 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:15:26 jdz, I'm mainly trying to understand the relationship of si to the existing sequence framework 11:15:30 writing that function isn't trivial though 11:15:41 Soulman [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 11:15:55 lpolzer, it provides looping constructs that work on sequences 11:16:00 jdz: depends. if you want to write a function that works on all sequences, then you really don't want to know 11:16:10 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:27 trittweiler, yeah I got that far :) 11:16:31 -!- alendvai is now known as attila_lendvai 11:17:28 -!- attila_lendvai is now known as alendvai 11:17:48 nikodemus: well, there are times when that would be useful, yes (for instance when the sequence in question must be traversed completely). but when designing program is another question. 11:17:59 -!- alendvai is now known as attila_lendvai 11:18:19 ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 11:18:37 oh, my grammar sucks. 11:19:41 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:20:22 -!- ecraven [n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit ["brb"] 11:20:52 lpolzer, Is there a sequence function you'd have liked to have in past? 11:24:14 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:24:24 greetings 11:25:22 -!- beibmozoi [i=cope@freeshell.org] has left #lisp 11:25:53 anyone know of a good way to enable a #+feature locally? (say, within a file) without having to push a magic symbol into *features* 11:26:32 pipa [n=pipa@ip-213-49-126-171.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #lisp 11:26:42 *fusss* thinks it might be helpful to peruse clsql sources, it has start-sql-recording 11:26:50 good way? not really 11:27:14 I sometimes push to *features* in :compile-toplevel :execute 11:28:32 oudeis [n=oudeis@62.219.152.214] has joined #lisp 11:29:50 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 11:30:22 -!- trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:30:22 yeah 11:32:02 trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 11:32:14 &join \tum.ros 11:32:26 hallelujah english layout 11:33:04 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:40 -!- trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:35:08 clog_ [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 11:40:05 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:40:12 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:40:45 trittweiler [n=tcr@131.159.18.243] has joined #lisp 11:40:49 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-228-90.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:43:56 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:44:49 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:45:27 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:02 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:47:16 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32EFC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:24 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:47:39 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:49:40 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 11:49:47 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:49:47 -!- clog_ is now known as clog 11:50:39 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:06 flatline [n=flatline@z166195.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:00:05 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:00:22 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yjirsnjpzpnxnvgu] has left #lisp 12:00:43 fusss: (let ((*features* (cons :magic *features*))) ...)? 12:01:15 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Damn cable pluggers"] 12:01:35 stassats, here? 12:01:42 trittweiler: yep 12:01:59 serichsen: that won't affect the reader 12:03:13 yeah, dumb me 12:03:38 -!- nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:04:01 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 12:05:16 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Client Quit] 12:06:57 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:12 trittweiler, nsubseq comes to mind. 12:08:36 ecraven [n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:09:29 stassats, I'd really need slime-rgrep-system at work. How easy can you find out which system the current buffer file belongs to? 12:09:42 or slime-isearch-system 12:10:37 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 12:11:12 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:11:17 lpolzer, Unfortunately the library as of now won't help on that. 12:12:44 stassats, I wouldn't mind if you only search through the systems opened via slime-open-system to find out a file's system 12:12:59 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-131-243-232.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:13:39 i'm figuring out right now 12:14:35 longkid [n=lisp@58.186.224.235] has joined #lisp 12:15:34 hello all 12:16:38 trittweiler, is there a specific obstacle preventing destructive functions in sequence-iterators? 12:17:13 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:18:03 lpolzer, No, look at the :place key parameter in with-sequence-iterator (and dosequence, dosequences*) 12:18:13 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 12:19:29 ziga` [n=user@89.142.60.110] has joined #lisp 12:19:43 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:24 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:20:55 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:22:09 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 12:22:32 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 12:23:47 EnglishGent [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:25:56 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:26:13 Axius [n=ade@92.84.11.114] has joined #lisp 12:29:41 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CB35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:25 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@208.87.217.194] has quit [] 12:30:39 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:31:14 (prog1 (values "foo" "bar") (print "baz")) 12:31:34 I expected that form to print "baz" and return "foo" and "bar" as MVs 12:33:20 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:33:50 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:34:10 the spec is with the implementation, saying prog1 returns the primary value of the first form 12:34:51 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@62.219.152.214] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:35:21 fusss what does it return? 12:35:46 hehe silly me, repl here 12:35:47 (prog1 (values "foo" "bar") (print "baz")) ==> prints "baz" and returns "foo" 12:35:51 "bar" is lost 12:35:56 ya thats what i would expect 12:36:07 values is special 12:36:49 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.84.11.114] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:37:50 need to read up to get the exact wording for it, but values returns are separate entities 12:39:17 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.134.163] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:39:55 -!- beauty [n=beauty@83.231.53.201] has quit [] 12:40:43 trittweiler: what would be better: to search among files registered in the system, or just among *.lisp files in the base directory? 12:41:45 fuss from the CLHS -> (values (values 1 2 3) 4 5) => 1, 4, 5 12:41:50 fusss ^ 12:41:51 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-251-59.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 12:42:08 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:42:14 clhs m-v-p 12:42:15 MULTIPLE-VALUE-PROG1: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_mult_1.htm 12:42:25 stassats: wow! 12:42:32 my thought as well 12:42:43 (defmacro mv-prog1 (&body body) 12:42:44 (let ((first-form (gensym))) 12:42:46 `(let ((,first-form (car ,@body))) 12:42:47 (cdr ,@body) 12:42:50 -!- ``Erik [i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:42:54 was in the middle of reinventing the wheel!!11one 12:43:01 ``Erik [i=Here@69.140.109.104] has joined #lisp 12:43:03 i was about to say CL has a function for everything 12:43:14 this is horrible and good 12:43:20 HAHAHA 12:43:27 Guthur: that's not a function 12:43:40 mv stuff are special forms 12:43:54 i didn't mean it literally 12:44:00 i was going to say keyword 12:44:14 that didn't work either 12:44:58 operator will do 12:45:16 konr [n=konrad@201.82.134.163] has joined #lisp 12:45:17 special operator 12:45:17 "operator n. 1. a function, macro, or special operator." 12:46:10 in this particular case, special, but operator in general 12:46:47 but i would have to check the spec to know, that is one problem with the insane flexibility of lisp, you nearly always have to check what something is 12:47:11 well, i didn't have to check the spec 12:47:24 ya you knew 12:48:24 i just know that prog* can't be implemented as a function 12:48:46 prog is a macro 12:50:16 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 12:50:30 which is slightly different from a M-V-P 12:51:25 -!- longkid [n=lisp@58.186.224.235] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:52:02 oh actually prog1 is the only macro of the prog family 12:52:22 the rest are special forms 12:52:32 prog2 is a macro as well 12:52:43 well i didn't know there was a prog2 12:52:47 but then yes 12:53:14 but there's no prog3 12:53:14 i was only going by its absence from the special form enumeration on CLHS 12:53:57 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@193.60.95.74] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 12:54:36 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 12:55:25 -!- pipa [n=pipa@ip-213-49-126-171.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:59:04 actually, you can define prog1 as a function, but it will not evaluate forms as top-level forms, and it will have call-arguments-limit 12:59:22 ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 13:01:43 well, and cons unneededly 13:02:38 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:49 hello 13:06:45 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@174.59.195.12] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:07:40 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:08:03 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:09:07 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-131-243-232.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 13:10:14 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:10:42 Adlai [n=adlai@93-172-130-204.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 13:13:52 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:26 oudeis [n=oudeis@81.218.0.98] has joined #lisp 13:20:14 -!- Trystam is now known as Tristam 13:23:10 -!- Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-121-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:25:11 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 13:27:34 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:27:48 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:27:53 demmeln [n=Adium@138.246.18.235] has joined #lisp 13:28:06 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:30:03 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 13:30:03 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:30:29 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:32:51 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 13:34:23 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@138.246.18.235] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:34:52 stassats: PROG1 does not preserve toplevelness 13:35:49 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 13:36:15 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:36:54 PROGN, LOCALLY, EVEL-WHEN, MACROLET, and SYMBOL-MACROLET do, but nothing else 13:38:09 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-109.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:38:30 oh, right, you wouldn't care about returned value at the top-level 13:39:38 Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-121-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 13:39:44 davazp [n=user@156.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:12 Good afternoon! 13:40:48 hello spiaggia 13:41:56 hi spiaggia 13:42:15 hello 13:43:39 fusss, heya! 13:43:47 madnificent, hi 13:43:47 hey kiuma 13:45:28 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:47:45 demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 13:50:33 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 13:50:55 minion: how are you this fine morning? 13:50:55 it's going quite fine today 13:50:59 Oh, good. 13:51:28 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [Client Quit] 13:51:38 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 13:51:41 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 13:53:04 alvinator [n=alvinato@o.bcn.fluendo.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:42 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:06 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-C2F2E195.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 13:57:42 i am porting code to run in cmucl .. they used alot of (IN-PACKAGE "USER") and user::foo.. can/should i just add a package alias? 13:57:54 exu0 [n=u@188.105.54.194] has joined #lisp 13:58:08 -!- exu0 [n=u@188.105.54.194] has left #lisp 13:58:10 to :CL-USER .. or would they be refering to a differnt package? 13:58:41 dmiles_afk: how old is this code? 13:58:56 about 10 years old 13:58:57 Indeed. If it pre-dates ANSI, go with the alias. 13:59:03 dmiles_afk: in cltl1, IN-PACKAGE was the package defining form. 13:59:09 only 10? that's not very old 13:59:32 not too old.. and i think they run it .. but who klnows with what version of cmucl 13:59:42 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 14:00:16 for isntance i have to change PCL::GENERIC-FUNCTION-PRETTY-ARGLIST to PCL::GF-PRETTY-ARGLIST 14:00:24 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 14:00:33 have/had* 14:01:02 does that rename help date it? 14:01:25 but if IN-PACKAGE was a package defining function.. thats awkward.. i guess going to have to try both ways 14:01:50 the source is actually 30 years old.. but according to history its used at least ten years ago 14:02:13 and hello kiuma :) 14:02:42 they have been depricting CMU for Allegro in the last 10 years.. so it was probly left off there 14:03:06 30 years old, maclisp? 14:03:17 my goal after i establish some CMU sanity to try SBCL :) 14:03:40 i think older than maclisp 14:03:56 EinarDog1in [n=plyryan@pool-71-113-49-75.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:10 45 years? 14:04:23 possibly 14:04:36 i don't believe you 14:04:37 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:04:51 well hrrm lessee .. 1983 14:04:52 minion: do you believe? 14:04:59 (i think) 14:05:00 you'd have to tell me... my memory circuits are fried 14:05:06 demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 14:05:08 minion: you shouldn't 14:05:43 but.. what it is is a lisp-to-c tranlater written by mcCarthy 14:05:43 what's up? 14:06:15 dmiles_afk: that's not a CL to C translator 14:06:21 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279774745.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:06:33 madnificent: nope 14:06:47 but the translator was poted to common lisp at some point 14:06:59 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 14:07:10 it has #+CMU #+Allegro etc 14:07:25 that still doesn't make it translate CL to C :) 14:07:36 nope it still doesnt ;) 14:07:56 its a differnt version of lisp made specific to a certian app 14:08:20 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:08:36 but the bootstrap now is writtn in CL 14:08:58 clog_ [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 14:09:17 blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 14:09:18 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 14:09:21 well little bits of it are.. some files really are from 1983.. some are from less than a year ago 14:11:00 so the age infernces are missleading.. these files i am trying to modernize are common lisp.. but the code base inst 14:11:14 dmiles_afk, you mean it's a deoptimizer! 14:11:26 hehe maybe 14:11:40 *Adlai* wonders how dmiles_afk is chatting while being afk... 14:12:11 Adlai: Bluetooth and speech recognition? 14:12:12 it output looks like: http://larkc.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/larkc/trunk/platform/src/com/cyc/cycjava/cycl/cache.java?revision=254&view=markup 14:12:38 (thats the java isntead of C.. jut a transliteration) 14:13:08 nyef, good call... or maybe direct telepathic communication with freenode 14:13:31 the translator itself is much much older 14:14:10 touch screen with handwriting recognition? 14:15:10 stassats: No, the data throughput speed is too fast for that. 14:15:31 one can adapt 14:15:44 _afk = i ask for help.. more rarely than i give it 14:16:39 i guess the k could be for knowledge 14:16:46 isn't dmiles_iafhmrtigi more appropriate then? :P 14:17:09 asking for knowledge? 14:17:23 ussually thats all dmiles does 14:18:03 minion: thwap to dmiles_afk 14:18:04 dmiles_afk: look at thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 14:18:12 then receive some 14:20:42 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:52 usually that is all dmiles is doing 14:21:38 looks like they assume (in-package "USER") would be the right thing to allergo 14:22:11 implies that they expected Allegro to accept it 14:22:11 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:22:11 -!- clog_ is now known as clog 14:22:20 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-68-51-134-164.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:27 dmiles_afk, I think the spec permits implementations to create packages when in-package uses an as-of-yet nonexistant package name 14:22:39 oh wait, it doesn't. hmm. 14:23:05 Adlai: More likely that Allegro pre-dates the ANSI standard, and thus retained "USER" as an alias or canonical package name for "CL-USER". 14:23:19 nyef, yeah, that's probably the case 14:23:42 (CLtL1 originally specified packages "LISP", "USER", and "KEYWORD".) 14:24:21 in CMU LISP is differnt than COMMON-LISP right? 14:24:23 TDT [n=dthole@dhcpw80ff9623.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 14:24:30 in CMU: LISP is differnt than COMMON-LISP right? 14:24:38 they use "LISP" alot as well 14:25:02 Adlai: that was in cltl2 14:25:29 stassats, right, I thought that the spec left this behavior unspecified, but I checked again and saw that it requires a program-error to be signaled 14:25:37 dmiles_afk: They might have kept the old package names, at least for a while, as compatability. 14:25:52 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.118.176] has joined #lisp 14:28:13 -!- EinarDogfin [n=plyryan@pool-71-113-49-75.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:28:31 metasyntax [n=taylor@75.149.208.121] has joined #lisp 14:30:36 oh boy the fun starts: LISP::DO-OLD-RENAME: Could not rename "/dev/null" to "/dev/null.~1~": Permission denied 14:31:09 -!- TDT [n=dthole@dhcpw80ff9623.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [] 14:31:11 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:32:31 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:33:14 why is NEXT-METHOD-P a local function, rather than a local variable? 14:33:20 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:51 Adlai: Because there's no point in computing the next method if it's not going to get called. 14:34:08 Or otherwise dealt with. 14:34:57 so this is to save the cost of calling NULL once? hehe 14:35:13 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:35:45 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:35:49 It's to allow for implementations that calculate the method order dynamically to be more efficient. 14:36:01 Mathieu [n=mlegrand@cm36.sigma98.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:36:10 tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:36:32 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.221.224] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:36:54 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.221.224] has joined #lisp 14:36:59 ok, that makes sense 14:37:57 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:38:07 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 14:39:32 so what's the best emacs interface to git? 14:39:53 fusss: M-x xterm is my choice for now 14:39:55 *fusss* had a busy two days, moved to unit test AND version control 14:39:55 I find M-! to be tolerable. 14:40:06 s/xterm/term 14:40:15 i'm not aware of anything besides VC 14:40:15 "M-! git diff", for example... 14:40:25 -!- hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit ["leaving"] 14:40:26 fusss: magit 14:40:43 magit it is then 14:40:52 *fusss* always has a *shell* buffer anyway 14:41:19 *stassats* likes VC because it's the same for cvs, git, or svn 14:41:43 fwiw, LIFT is an intelligent piece of software. picked it up in 30 minutes and it keeps a log of tests passed/failed so you know when you broke something and where. 14:42:05 minion: tell madnificent about LIFT 14:42:06 madnificent: please look at LIFT: The LIsp Framework for Testing is another testing framework in the JUnit / SUnit lineage. http://www.cliki.net/LIFT 14:42:41 *nyef* still just uses SB-RT on those rare occasions (such as today) when he wants to do unit testing. 14:43:39 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:44:36 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 14:44:37 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:44:52 *madnificent* thinks things like no standard documentation system and no standard way to do testcases may be holding both subjects back in CL 14:45:04 standard being a defacto standard 14:45:27 nobody writes documentation anyway 14:45:53 stassats: careful, Xach's around 14:46:57 stassats: I find it frustrating that I don't know of any standard way of writing documentation. That indeed makes me document far less than I'm supposed to 14:47:10 madnificent, no standard documentation? 14:47:12 texinfo works for me 14:47:13 clhs documentation 14:47:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_docume.htm 14:47:25 Adlai: no standard documentation system :) 14:47:36 madnificent: write it in prose 14:48:01 *Adlai* prefers "online" documentation, when it's available 14:48:28 Adlai: there should be one way to write it and multiple ways of getting the data out :) 14:48:46 preferably some standard format 14:49:11 http://weitz.de/documentation-template 14:49:47 Adlai: as everyone uses something different, this quick hack is not a standard format :) 14:50:23 -!- Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-121-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:52:11 (like texinfo) 14:52:45 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:52:58 dlowe: you mean (likes (find-irc-user "dlowe") (find-application 'texinfo)) ? 14:53:17 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Valete!"] 14:53:20 I mean there's one way to write it and multiple ways of getting the data out :p 14:53:35 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:54:02 -!- ska` [n=user@203.146.146.169] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:54:35 Texinfo isn't even turing-complete! 14:55:28 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590e8713.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:03 knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 14:56:25 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:05 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 14:59:23 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 14:59:34 has anyone here tried extracting data from dbpedia? 15:00:31 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 15:02:40 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 15:06:29 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:06:29 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 15:06:35 Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 15:08:28 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:09:00 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 15:10:57 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 15:11:06 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.235] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:12:37 madnificent: the whole of wikipedia is available for download 15:12:48 80GB or some such, IIRC 15:12:57 fusss: dbpedia :) 15:13:16 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-251-59.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:13:17 fusss: yes it is, dbpedia has indexed the infoboxes with an ontology mapping them 15:13:29 from other sources as well, not sure what you mean extract 15:13:56 fusss: I need to map an ontology which I've built myself in the past, to the ontology of (for example) dbpedia. 15:13:58 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 15:14:23 mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-066.iasi.cablelink.ro] has joined #lisp 15:14:27 oh, you're right, it's dbpedia; i know them by their corporate name 15:15:02 The goal is to fetch a number of instances and translate them to a new OWL scheme, so it matches what I've built... In theory (if the schemes really match well) that would mean that I'd need to link the concepts which I've defined to those that they have defined and import some data from them 15:15:09 FreeBase! 15:15:14 fusss: really? 15:15:26 http://www.freebase.com/ 15:15:33 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-94-1.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:15:51 those guys are even hiring lispers 15:16:06 wow 15:16:20 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-9410.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:16:50 fusss: then they should've published a decent interface! :P 15:17:20 yep, until a few weeks ago there was a position for API architect and, IIRC, community activist; they're working on it 15:17:40 I need to submit this by the end of the day... so I guess they'll be a tad too slow 15:17:43 still good to know 15:21:09 good luck 15:22:44 triyo [i=c636caf6@gateway/web/freenode/x-wgbgwoauoiwbvdlb] has joined #lisp 15:23:12 *madnificent* has no idea how he will tackle this 15:24:30 _YKY_ [i=YKY@n11211842036.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:56 I am trying to understand how defpackage in-package work in CL. I have 2 .lisp source file each that define their own package and set it using in-package. 15:24:58 <_YKY_> Is it practical to mix Prolog and Lisp? how? 15:25:23 minion: prolog? 15:25:25 prolog: Prolog is a programming language based around logical assertions. http://www.cliki.net/prolog 15:25:51 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 15:26:52 I use :import-from to import required functions from other source file and their output for some reason not seen in my current package. 15:27:20 Maybe better question, is there a simple tutorial that shows how packages work in CL>? 15:27:33 minion: pcl? 15:27:35 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 15:27:49 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/programming-in-the-large-packages-and-symbols.html 15:28:56 triyo: there are prolog implementations in common lisp. It is fairly simple to write a basic lispy prolog implementation (I've done it in the past). You can make it integrate rather decently if you aim for it 15:29:11 triyo: sorry, that is for _YKY_ 15:29:20 _YKY_: ^ 15:29:20 stassats, an easier link is http://l1sp.org/pcl/defpackage 15:29:46 it's non-deterministic most of the time 15:29:55 _YKY_: you may be interested in the implementation paul graham did in his book 'on lisp' 15:30:13 <_YKY_> But is it efficient? 15:30:20 stassats, l1sp.org, or prolog? :D 15:30:38 Adlai: l1sp.org/pcl/ 15:30:38 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:30:42 <_YKY_> Or maybe I can glue them via C/C++? 15:31:07 _YKY_: You can make it efficient, the cpu works just as fast in CL than it does in C/C++ :P 15:35:43 that's idealistic 15:35:55 http://pastebin.com/m67648fd2 15:36:09 there is my simple code with 2 source lisp files. 15:36:41 From my understand, thats how I understand I suppose to define the packages and use in- 15:37:43 hi stassats I'm back 15:37:57 trittweiler: did you see my last question? 15:38:14 stassats, Base directory seems more appropriate 15:38:25 stassats, whereas isearch should perhaps work on files 15:38:39 ok, then i'll commit slime-rgrep-system 15:38:54 stassats, slime-rgrep-system should not automatically work on the "current system" 15:39:02 stassats, it should merely put in a default input 15:39:18 -!- maus [n=maus@222.253.105.36] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:39:19 oh, ok 15:39:28 or even better: have the default input in parentheses so you only have to press RET 15:39:42 there's some elisp function to do that 15:39:56 get inspiration from the slime-read-foo functions 15:40:15 problem in my example is on the call (init-scheme-interp) line: 74 ...it seems to run the function fine but the problem is that the setf's it run in get set in the wring package so my current package doesn't see the stuff initialized by (init-scheme-interp) 15:40:34 triyo, wrong channel by chance? 15:40:48 CL? 15:41:07 triyo, oh ok 15:41:09 slime-read-system-name already can do this 15:41:19 triyo: you did not export the symbols 15:41:20 stassats, wonderful! 15:42:37 lispm: ahahh thx, feel stupid now. :) 15:43:10 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:43:11 triyo: not sure if that's the error 15:43:37 triyo: note also that packages have READ TIME effect 15:45:13 triyo: the code does not switch between packages, when you run functions from different packages 15:45:16 milanj [n=milan@77.46.251.228] has joined #lisp 15:45:48 lispm: hmm good point. Then how would I handle something like this in best possible, CL, way? 15:47:01 triyo: whenever you do lookup symbols at runtime or create them, you need to control the package, too 15:47:20 lispm: In other words, I have lets say lib called email-lib that has its own package and I wish to use it in some other component that is in a diff package 15:48:08 trittweiler: committed 15:48:15 stassats, cool 15:48:17 triyo: the packages are ONLY components of symbols, nothing more 15:48:35 stassats, I'll try it in a few minutes. Do I only have to reload slime-asdf.el probably? 15:48:57 and swank-asdf.lisp 15:49:19 lispm: oh I see, of only symbols. Also what do you mean by "control the package"? 15:49:41 triyo: you have a function and you want to use a symbol in the from the email-lib? use (email-lib:send-mail "foo" "bar" ...) 15:49:55 triyo: see the arguments to MAKE-SYMBOL 15:50:05 triyo: and FIND-SYMBOL 15:50:24 triyo: by default they use the value of *package* at runtime 15:50:45 triyo: if you want to create a symbol in some package, you have to tell the package, 15:51:09 triyo: if you want to lookup a symbol from a package then you need to specify that package 15:51:47 trio: you can also use (let ((*package* (find-package "MY-PACKAGE"))) (read)) 15:52:14 triyo: and symbols created by read will be in created in the package bound by the LET 15:52:23 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:52:27 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-228-90.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:52:29 lispm: got it. 15:52:37 nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:39 lispm: using LET to switch the package in that block, would that be the preferred way? 15:54:10 triyo: for something like READ, yes. 15:54:49 Remember: it only effects functions that create or lookup symbols inside the scope of the let - the dynamic scope 15:54:55 triyo: at runtime 15:56:08 brown [n=user@72.14.228.129] has joined #lisp 15:56:25 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:56:37 -!- brown is now known as Guest58140 15:56:53 triyo: like READ, READ-FROM-STRING, FIND-SYMBOL, INTERN, ... 15:57:20 -!- nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:58:38 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.172.135] has joined #lisp 15:58:48 triyo: your INTERACTIVE-INTERPRETER has a call to READ, so you want to set *package* around it with a LET - to make sure the symbols it creates or looks up are in the right package 16:00:07 dnolen [n=dnolen@216.165.95.70] has joined #lisp 16:00:12 lispm: exactly my thoughts let around the read 16:00:52 pipa [n=pipa@ip-213-49-126-87.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #lisp 16:01:59 triyo: you may want to make sure that this package contains the symbols of your language 16:01:59 dang [n=daniel@S0106001a704b7fbe.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:22 triyo: you also want to make sure that the symbols INTERP dispatches over are these symbols 16:02:33 ruepel0r [n=rue@77-21-138-135-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:48 triyo: for example SET! is such a symbol. 16:03:32 triyo: if the user uses SET! in an expression at the prompt, READ will create the symbol SET! of some package 16:03:57 triyo: in INTERP you do then a CASE, which compares symbols by EQL 16:04:07 redline6561 [n=redline@168.28.180.22] has joined #lisp 16:04:32 triyo: so the symbol read in and the symbol used in the CASE must be the same symbol, otherwise they are not EQL 16:05:00 Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:08 lispm: exactly 16:05:30 stassats, really cool. Why does the determination of the system take some noticable time? 16:05:56 *lispm* Goethe to Schiller: thanks that you are explaining my works to me 16:05:58 milanj- [n=milan@212.200.217.114] has joined #lisp 16:06:02 -!- nowherman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:06:25 colin_ [n=colin@118.169.37.249] has joined #lisp 16:06:42 it does? i didn't test it on many systems, so didn't bother to optimize it, so it uses previous functions, and may cons some 16:07:17 well where I am they use a custom asdf search function 16:07:25 may that be relateD? 16:08:03 don't know 16:08:07 acrid [n=mckay@204.126.146.202] has joined #lisp 16:08:17 if it annoys me to much I'll look at it 16:08:41 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 16:12:48 redblue [i=star@ppp104.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:13:11 Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-121-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 16:13:15 -!- Athas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:14:59 stassats, next thing is query-replace :) 16:15:06 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.221.224] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 16:15:09 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.251.228] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:24 (I blog about it in return!) 16:16:59 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.221.224] has joined #lisp 16:18:25 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:21:01 Reaver2 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 16:25:17 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:25:18 hi, I know I can (apply #'+ 1 '(2 3)) but can I (funcall #'+ 1 (foo '(2 3))) where foo takes the list and "unlists" it? (pardon lack of vocab) 16:25:46 leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:25:53 that's what apply is for 16:25:57 clhs apply 16:25:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 16:25:57 ok 16:26:06 thanks 16:26:19 egn, (multiple-value-call #'+ (values-list '(2 3))) 16:26:39 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:27:50 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 16:28:28 Modius__ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:45 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:28:50 -!- pipa [n=pipa@ip-213-49-126-87.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:29:19 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has joined #lisp 16:29:55 is there more information anywhere on Pascal Costanza's "Filtered Dispatch" system? 16:31:55 Hi everybody, how can I simply do (* 2 2 2 ... ) but I have 2 only one and I can not call external function. 16:31:56 Adlai, there's a MIT technical report about predicate dispatch in CLOS 16:32:10 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:17 StanleyD, (expt 2 10) 16:33:12 (* #1=2 #1# #1#) 16:33:34 I think it's an exercise in recursion. 16:33:35 StanleyD, you could try something like (reduce #'* (make-list 10 :initial-element 2)) 16:33:35 trittweiler: Thanks. 16:35:58 Adlai: Reduce is something like fold in scheme, right? 16:36:03 rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:36:10 clhs reduce 16:36:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_reduce.htm 16:36:30 leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:37:33 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [] 16:38:55 trittweiler: it's indeed somewhat slow on sbcl, i've optimized it a bit 16:40:13 -!- triyo [i=c636caf6@gateway/web/freenode/x-wgbgwoauoiwbvdlb] has quit ["Page closed"] 16:40:25 on 204 systems with 1839 files 16:43:19 Adlai: there's a paper on it, which is the top hit on google for "filtered dispatch" 16:43:48 Krystof, yes, that's why I asked for "more" information 16:44:26 trittweiler, thank you for pointing that out. I just read part of it though, and I think I'm specifically interested in pcos's work, as opposed to predicate dispatch in general. 16:44:36 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:45:48 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:48:13 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@168.28.180.22] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:48:29 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:49:05 Axius [n=ade@92.85.16.128] has joined #lisp 16:51:00 x2cast [n=Administ@51.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:51:03 hi! 16:51:07 anyone using Vim? 16:51:20 could you recommend me a plugin for editing lisp in Vim? 16:51:21 thanks 16:51:22 x2cast, sure but not for Lisp 16:51:41 trittweiler: you use emacs for lisp? 16:53:17 x2cast, most people do 16:53:26 minion, tell x2cast about SLIME 16:53:28 x2cast: direct your attention towards SLIME: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/SLIME 16:54:03 x2cast, if you really want to use vim, consider something like Nekthuth... 16:54:08 I see... but lisp is not the only language I use, and I'm using Vim for everything else. Nobody uses vim at all in the lisp world? 16:54:09 minion, tell x2cast about nekthuth 16:54:11 x2cast: please look at nekthuth: Nekthuth: Connection with a Lisp Nekthuth is the combination of a vim plugin and a common lisp library which enables vim users to start up or connect to a CL interpreter inside vim, and do interesting things with it. http://www.cliki.net/nekthuth 16:54:25 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has quit [] 16:54:27 x2cast: http://www.xach.com/img/lisp-and-vim.png 16:54:28 ska` [n=user@ppp-58-8-125-120.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 16:55:20 lispm, I see 16:55:34 well I have tuned Vim already to perfection :) 16:55:53 Emacs is easier for Lisp programmer's to customize, so it is likely that the tools are better 16:55:54 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has joined #lisp 16:56:01 x2cast, look at Nekthuth, I think it's the most actively developed CL/Vim integrations 16:56:10 so, it's time to abandon it and go to emacs 16:56:10 great 16:56:19 minion, thwap for lispm 16:56:19 lispm: have a look at thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 16:56:26 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@80.14.131.214] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:56:27 and you can't tune emacs to perfection to the end of your life 16:57:03 adlai: go away 16:57:37 *Adlai* goes away 16:58:02 adlai: come back 16:58:14 *Adlai* comes back 16:59:11 -!- Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-121-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:59:23 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:59:49 *Adlai* wonders whether the 'sb' in 'sb_itsits.mp3' stands for "steel bank" 16:59:51 limp: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2219 17:00:20 'Limp's goal is to provide a compelling alternative to Slime for Vim' 17:01:34 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A86EC.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:01:48 there is also a CLIKI page about Lisp and VIM: http://www.cliki.net/vim 17:02:00 benny [n=benny@i577A86EC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:03:20 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:04:34 Adlai: More likely to stand for "strongbad". 17:05:06 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-79-59.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:06:03 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590e8713.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:18 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590e8713.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:56 -!- x2cast [n=Administ@51.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 17:07:33 lispm, hi, dude 17:07:38 wassup? 17:07:58 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [No route to host] 17:07:59 hi there 17:10:11 -!- ska` [n=user@ppp-58-8-125-120.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:10:13 ska` [n=user@124.157.214.146] has joined #lisp 17:11:47 -!- davazp [n=user@156.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:14:16 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 17:14:27 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 17:14:40 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 17:15:35 hey lispm 17:15:42 hi 17:15:50 -!- ruepel0r [n=rue@77-21-138-135-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:15:53 raining 17:16:10 is there any programme yet for next wednesday? 17:16:53 the programme is to be there, talk to each other, drink and eat a bit 17:16:56 ;-) 17:17:02 badipod [n=badipod@110.32.140.61] has joined #lisp 17:17:11 lispm: ah, no presentations? 17:17:24 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-208-216.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 17:17:41 the meeting is in some restaurant with no presentation facilities 17:18:02 but if you bring a laptop, people might be interested to look at the screen... 17:18:13 heh, ok 17:19:11 interested in any presentations? 17:20:07 I thought that I could maybe show off with something I have done 17:21:27 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-62-254-109.ip25.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:21:29 ... if it works as expected until then 17:21:41 ha! 17:21:54 we show also things that don't work! 17:22:51 if it is not too much, you might bring a laptop and show it there - but the restaurant is not that ideal for any more complex presentation 17:22:55 Which meting is this? 17:23:15 hh 17:23:25 -!- ska` [n=user@124.157.214.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:23:28 ska` [n=user@124.157.214.146] has joined #lisp 17:23:35 Hansestadt Hamburg 17:24:23 *Fare* tries to fix xcvb-master with clisp 17:25:05 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-208-216.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:26:12 -!- Reaver2 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:28:09 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:52 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@216.165.95.70] has quit [] 17:29:15 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.85.16.128] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:29:55 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:29:58 dnolen [n=dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:30:37 hi. there is SB-EXT:*EXIT-HOOKS* in SBCL that are called when the process exits. is there anything like that in Clozure CL? 17:31:13 yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109-184-208-216.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 17:32:45 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:02 just call something before calling ccl:quit 17:33:07 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:34:30 stassats: that's not really very similar. 17:35:12 george__ [n=george@189.107.201.156] has joined #lisp 17:35:46 Fare: thanks for the comment on Geoff's blog. I understand too that there's a chicken-and-egg problem for you 17:36:09 sure, no problem. I'm working on it in my copious free time. 17:36:09 I just don't have the time right now to be your canary, to mix metaphors in an astonishingly confusing way 17:36:11 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-180.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:36:33 -!- ska` [n=user@124.157.214.146] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:36:39 I understand. No hard feelings. I was trying to get a feeling of the current state of acceptability of XCVB, not trying to force the issue. 17:36:44 ska` [n=user@124.157.214.146] has joined #lisp 17:36:59 it's good to have feedback, even when the feedback is "you're not there yet". 17:37:10 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 17:37:20 I also feel bad about only being "the guy" according to Anonymous :-) 17:37:21 so thanks 17:37:30 -!- yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109-184-208-216.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:37:38 ska`: You can push thunks onto ccl:*lisp-cleanup-functions*, I think. 17:37:40 Xach: well, once can advise ccl:quit 17:37:48 you're not the only one to reject my patch, but you were explicit and articulate about it, which I appreciate. 17:39:10 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 17:39:20 I think XCVB is already better than ASDF (at least on supported platforms), but I understand that isn't enough to justify a switch. 17:40:12 tell you what: convince ITA to fund some research time for me, and I'll investigate :-) 17:40:18 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 17:40:55 :) 17:41:17 can xcvb be used like asdf, i.e. without all the makefile/make business? 17:41:25 thanks a lot 17:41:27 *Fare* tries to understand what it really means when CLISP complains about *** - WRITE-CHAR on # is illegal 17:42:45 froydnj, yes and no 17:42:55 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:05 froydnj, currently, there's always a Makefile behind the scenes (I'm working on it), but xcvb-master will hide that from you. 17:43:56 in the near future, xcvb will be able to do w/o a Makefile, and it will deal with change control itself, in a way that allows for centralized specification of dependencies 17:44:19 Fare: sounds like writing to a closed file descriptor is unsupported 17:44:21 and a pony 17:44:32 antifuchs, thanks a lot! 17:44:53 antifuchs, now, why is the file descriptor being closed, etc.? (and I can't get a backtrace) 17:44:58 *Fare* straces clisp 17:45:09 that's the harder question (: 17:45:38 -!- EnglishGent [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:45:43 /dev/fd/1 - are you opening that yourself? 17:46:05 not that I know of. Must be the default inherited stdout 17:46:20 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:46:33 danlei [n=user@82.113.106.83] has joined #lisp 17:47:01 antifuchs, btw, I replaced some of your hairy ADG and POIU macros by higher-order functions, I got a bit of sanity back. 17:47:13 (in addition to hushing warnings in clisp) 17:47:55 antifuchs, next time you have big hairy macros, please consider higher-order functions. 17:48:05 heh 17:48:09 will do 17:49:02 One thing I agree on - xcvb could really use a better name 17:49:21 dlowe, offer one. I may rename it before 1.0 (if any). 17:49:36 TBSFKAX "the build system formerly known as xcvb" 17:49:45 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.172.135] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:50:04 cipher [i=weinsd0@monica.cs.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 17:50:12 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.118.176] has left #lisp 17:50:21 Synthromaxx 17:50:23 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 17:50:29 "convex" 17:50:39 "build" 17:50:43 Metaflaxx 17:50:47 "assemble" 17:51:02 Wheatstorm 17:51:03 Fare, i don't know about others, but our team very much would prefer the local storage of dependencies... 17:51:15 qwer 17:51:28 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:32 antifuchs, I thought about "build", but (1) at the shell command-line, it's not specific enough to Lisp, and (2) within the Lisp world, it's stealing the name of the former BUILD system from 1984. 17:51:48 call it 1984 instead, then 17:51:54 haha 17:51:59 attila_lendvai, I prefer it too, and xcvb will allow both at the whim of the maintainer. 17:52:22 minitru 17:52:51 (\1984:\60) 17:52:59 slab (system load and build) 17:53:06 slab works for me 17:53:15 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@81.218.0.98] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:53:15 slab is cool 17:53:31 insufficient double-x 17:53:39 double-x is the new cowbell 17:53:47 Tautslaxx 17:54:16 the only freshmeat collision is an abandoned audio recording system 17:55:31 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:56:25 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has joined #lisp 17:57:04 -!- dang [n=daniel@S0106001a704b7fbe.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:58:00 -!- acrid [n=mckay@204.126.146.202] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:58:25 ahaas [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:30 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:58:40 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 18:01:46 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-135-136.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 18:02:53 -!- milanj- [n=milan@212.200.217.114] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:03:20 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.134.163] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:03:20 Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-121-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 18:06:06 -!- Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-121-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:06:16 acrid [n=mckay@204.126.146.202] has joined #lisp 18:06:49 konr [n=konrad@201.82.134.163] has joined #lisp 18:08:55 -!- Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:09:13 Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-121-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 18:09:47 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:54 kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:27 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 18:11:20 Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:45 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Nantes-117-3-40.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:12:19 CeQealizerG [n=none@h-60-195.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:12:58 davazp [n=user@156.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:59 Excuse me, I'm wondering if you can in someway expand the length of the lists you see when you use :zoom. 18:13:48 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:14:54 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:15:04 excuse me, but i don't understand you 18:16:10 (LET* (# # # ...) (SKAPA-DATUM DAG MÅN) ...) <- row from :zoom. 18:16:24 I'd like to see what the dots represent. 18:16:28 ampleyfly [n=ampleyfl@fritz.lysator.liu.se] has joined #lisp 18:16:46 If that's possible. 18:17:00 what's :zoom? but anyway 18:17:01 clhs *print-length* 18:17:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_pr_lev.htm 18:17:17 set it to nil 18:17:56 pr_ [n=pr@p579CAA35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:00 and *print-level* too 18:18:06 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:20:12 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 18:20:21 Hmm, didn't seem to do the trick. Thanks anyway! 18:20:34 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:44 what Lisp are you using? SLIME also? 18:20:51 Allegro 18:20:55 probably you've set it in the wrong place 18:20:57 ah 18:21:06 It works on regular lists. 18:21:11 But not when looking at the stack. 18:21:20 the problem with Allegro is that it has different variables for the debugger 18:21:25 check the documentation 18:21:31 Ah. 18:21:35 Thanks, I'll do that. 18:22:19 http://franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/tpl-commands/zoom.htm 18:22:45 *zoom-print-level* 18:22:52 and *zoom-print-length* 18:23:51 :zoom :negth nil :level nil 18:23:53 Yeah, noticed. Thanks a lot again ! :) 18:23:55 sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:23:58 :zoom :legth nil :level nil 18:24:00 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:24:05 try again! 18:24:23 :zoom :length nil :level nil 18:24:27 puuh 18:24:36 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:24:58 somehow my Lisp Machine keyboard does not work with Allegro documentation 18:25:02 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:25:13 That did the trick. 18:25:54 -!- ska` [n=user@124.157.214.146] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:25:58 ska` [n=user@124.157.214.146] has joined #lisp 18:26:02 rlb3 [n=robert@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:04 -!- luis` [n=user@mail2.siscog.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:27:38 spread the word of the helpful #lisp channel ;-) 18:27:38 luis` [n=user@mail2.siscog.pt] has joined #lisp 18:28:21 -!- luis` [n=user@mail2.siscog.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:28:28 Haha, will do. 18:28:38 the topic is especially helpful. 18:29:01 luis` [n=user@mail2.siscog.pt] has joined #lisp 18:31:21 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6FDF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:01 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 18:33:21 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 18:34:15 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-135-136.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:34:23 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 18:34:23 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:35:22 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:35:32 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-126-110.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:36:27 Axius [n=ade@92.85.25.57] has joined #lisp 18:36:52 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-135-136.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 18:38:26 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-135-136.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 18:39:14 *lispm* wonders if McCLIM could provide a Land of Lisp comic mode for FORMAT-GRAPH-FROM-ROOTS 18:39:32 could/should 18:42:11 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:44:51 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:46:13 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@89-178-40-207.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:46:56 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-137-231.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 18:47:14 Fare, i think you should set up a place for repos of the lisp libs and do the xcvb integration yourself (as you are already doing). and then you could set up a repo for split-sequence, too. i also had some optimizations that sped it up considerably, but dropped it because of the lack of a repo to send patches against... 18:47:22 Is it just me or is it hard to find extensive resources about CLIM? 18:48:10 start for McCLIM is here: http://mcclim.cliki.net/index 18:48:32 I'm using CLIM in Allegro CL 18:48:45 ANN: cl-redis 18:48:45 But I suppose that doesn't matter? 18:48:56 franz has documentation for it 18:49:03 in the usual places. slow as hell, but it's been a 2-day project. 18:49:11 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 18:49:34 depends, the Franz implementation of CLIM is quite good, but it is not their preferred GUI toolkit - which is their Common Windows 18:49:43 Oh, I see 18:49:46 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-53-85.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:49:51 -!- ska` [n=user@124.157.214.146] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:50:00 Which one is of those two are the easiest to learn? 18:50:08 -!- danlei [n=user@82.113.106.83] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:50:13 I really don't need anything fancy, just some buttons (and a bit more) 18:50:44 CLIM has the advantage of being portable 18:50:45 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 18:50:46 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-3-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:09 Common Windows could be easier, especially if you use the interface builder 18:51:14 Nice, thanks 18:51:41 sayyestolife: LTK will give you some buttons in 10 minutes, flat 18:52:28 I need to add them programmatically though :) 18:53:04 ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-88-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:53:17 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 18:53:47 fusss pasted "programmatically like this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90511 18:54:15 that's the menu bar of a gui app :-) 18:54:47 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 18:56:25 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:56:34 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:58 oudeis [n=oudeis@85.65.81.179.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:16 ltk?? 18:58:34 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-fqwbbcpfbqkxsdtb] has joined #lisp 18:58:38 The problem is that I have to make this run at a computer where I don't have any root access whatsoever 18:58:55 so only the "original" allegro cl software is what I can use 18:59:57 -!- clapautius [n=me@188.26.53.228] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:00:00 joswig [n=joswig@g224127219.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:45 -!- joswig [n=joswig@g224127219.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:59 good lord; i just took a look at cl gtk code from a year ago. hideous. 19:01:17 -!- Eko [n=eko@lawn-128-61-121-176.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:01:44 i have ~40% of Dylan' DUIM cloned for CL 19:01:53 all the protocol stuff, but not a single backend yet 19:02:33 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:02:34 -!- vng [n=user@123.20.114.73] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:03:26 -!- _YKY_ [i=YKY@n11211842036.netvigator.com] has left #lisp 19:05:23 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-137-231.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:07:16 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-64-130.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:08:02 tori [n=ade@92.82.93.220] has joined #lisp 19:08:15 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224047098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:08:30 milanj [n=milan@212.200.217.114] has joined #lisp 19:08:54 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has joined #lisp 19:09:17 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:09:40 moocow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 19:10:01 -!- alvinator [n=alvinato@o.bcn.fluendo.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:10:10 just figured something cool about let :) 19:10:25 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:25 .o(closures?) 19:10:38 fatalnix1995: wanna share it? 19:10:38 something like that 19:10:40 -!- tori [n=ade@92.82.93.220] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:43 dynamic variables 19:10:44 :D 19:10:45 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.85.25.57] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:10:59 that's not like that 19:11:14 *mishoo* too thinks they're cool :) 19:11:15 no way is it like that 19:11:36 <_deepfire> fusss, sounds nice! 19:13:55 I'm still trying to find out what a closure is really 19:14:07 its in that same section 19:14:34 Axius [n=ade@92.82.93.220] has joined #lisp 19:14:36 oo 19:15:06 fatalnix1995: for coolness then, wait until you see when you discover *that* ;) (I mean, closures) 19:15:38 :D 19:16:59 *mishoo* thinks ..oO( hm, I probably meant to s/you see when// ) 19:17:37 fatalnix1995: I wrote a pretty good introduction, I would say, but it's for JavaScript -- wanna read it? 19:17:54 sure why not 19:18:35 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@85.65.81.179.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:18:45 fatalnix1995: http://mihai.bazon.net/articles/jsobjects.pdf -- see section 1.5, "Anonymous functions, closures", although it might help if you read it all ;-) 19:19:45 oudeis [n=oudeis@85.65.81.179.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:01 fatalnix1995: In short, a closure is a run-time object representing a procedure plus the values of all lexical variables that were bound where the procedure was defined (in the case of a global procedure, there are none). 19:20:30 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-137-231.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 19:21:29 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 19:21:35 demmeln [n=Adium@188.104.85.104] has joined #lisp 19:21:42 fusss: how much is 40% in LOC? 19:21:46 -!- tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:22:05 wow I have to set the zoom level to 200 % to read it on 1024x768 19:22:33 but when I do the pages width perfectly fits 19:22:46 well, almost. 19:23:03 lichtblau: actually, not much 400k 19:23:20 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-137-231.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 19:24:06 geometry, sheets, events, pointer, layout, clipboard, and gadget are the only files > 1k each. the rest are place-holders. 19:24:12 oh thats what you mean by closures.. I use them all the time in that case. 19:26:46 fatalnix1995: You create a closure whenever you say #'foo or #'(lambda ...). 19:26:50 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:28:15 but in theories, closures can also be blocks, right? 19:28:23 theory* 19:28:24 fusss: I'm assuming "400k" is a typo ;-) 19:28:32 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-C2F2E195.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 19:28:38 fatalnix1995: what do you mean by "blocks" -- as in ruby? 19:28:49 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:14 block (from C, Perl, Java, PHP... ) my block: { stuff; } 19:29:40 fatalnix1995: in my perception, a closure is a function 19:29:41 Normally no, because blocks are just executed on the spot. In Perl, blocks are zero-argument lambdas, and in Smalltalk they are full lambdas. 19:29:59 fatalnix1995: the fact that some languages name it block has little to do with itit's still something that you can call and will run in a certain context 19:30:16 I see 19:35:53 lichtblau: Some chinese sent me a rough sketch for accessing launchpad from CL 19:37:51 launchpad? 19:37:51 lichtblau: heh 19:40:36 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:51 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:42:23 -!- zeroish [n=zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:42:27 attila_lendvai, makes sense. 19:42:49 dherring had offered to do some of that, too. 19:45:06 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-137-231.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 19:45:43 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-137-231.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 19:46:03 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-137-231.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 19:46:49 yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109-184-137-231.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 19:49:06 <_deepfire> Fare, what's dherring's status with libcl btw? 19:50:45 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-131-243-232.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:26 I wanted to send mail on just that 19:51:51 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:53:34 *_deepfire* reads an Aug 1 paper on futexes by Drepper 19:54:01 <_deepfire> Titled "Futexes are tricky". 19:54:31 August fool! 19:55:20 Good evening! 19:55:26 hello, beach 19:55:37 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:56:10 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 19:56:27 I wonder whether Geoff Wozniak hasn't noticed what kind of "alphabet soup" ASDF and XCVB are (and POIU too). 19:56:58 POIU? 19:57:00 serichsen, maybe "Anonymous" has only ever used but DVORAK 19:57:08 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:57:32 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:36 Do you think (let ((x '#1=(a x c))) #.(second '#1#)) is conformant code? 19:57:40 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:57:59 (i.e. referencing reader labels from within an #. expression) 19:58:12 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:52 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 19:58:55 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:58 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:59:09 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-jotmuivsgrqtxjgm] has joined #lisp 20:00:15 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 20:01:11 tcr: yes. Do I win? 20:01:35 Only if you can back up your claim 20:01:42 tcr: damn ;) 20:02:20 Do standard reader macro functions _have_ to invoke READ with recursive-p being true? 20:03:37 serichsen: its not the winning its the taking.....nah actually everyone wants prizes 20:04:03 tcr: 23.1.3.2 expands on the recursive-p argument a bit. might even answer your question 20:04:05 clhs 23.1.3.2 20:04:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/23_acb.htm 20:04:29 The point is not academic; "src/compiler/generic/primtype.lisp" (!def-primitive-type-alias unsigned-num) uses such kind of magic 20:04:53 in fact, it features something similar to your example, but without the #. invocation 20:04:58 antifuchs: #4 in 2.2 is more relevant 20:05:18 "The Lisp reader may be invoked recursively from the reader macro function. " 20:05:57 This could be read to mean that reader macro functions (if they invoke the reader) have to do so by recurisve-p being t 20:06:11 mstevens [n=michaels@81.2.103.21] has joined #lisp 20:06:27 and 23.1.3.2 says it doesn't make sense any other way (: 20:06:48 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.93.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:06:55 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-137-231.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:08:11 _deepfire, which mailing-list should I hit for that? 20:08:28 dnolen [n=dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:09:32 -!- centipedefarmer [n=nothingH@173-25-176-111.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:09:37 -!- mstevens [n=michaels@81.2.103.21] has quit [Client Quit] 20:09:53 centipedefarmer [n=nothingH@173-25-176-111.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:54 mstevens [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:10:42 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:12:04 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:12:37 -!- hjpark [n=user@116.40.135.21] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:12:57 pipa [n=pipa@ip-213-49-126-136.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #lisp 20:13:06 -!- mstevens [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has quit [Client Quit] 20:13:14 mstevens [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:13:30 <_deepfire> Fare, I'm subscribed to libcl, so it's a policy decision I leave to you :-) 20:13:49 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590e8713.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:14:08 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590e8713.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:46 <_deepfire> Fare, why doesn't dherring come here, btw? 20:15:00 <_deepfire> IIRC he used to.. 20:15:46 busy with kids maybe 20:16:51 -!- badipod [n=badipod@110.32.140.61] has quit [Client Quit] 20:16:57 his own, you mean 20:17:12 badipod [n=badipod@110.32.140.61] has joined #lisp 20:17:41 <_deepfire> Ah, this explains.. 20:19:09 <_deepfire> Fare, I must admit I won't immediately jump to resurrecting xcvbification (must have bitrotten at this point, I'm sure), but I'll put it 1'st on the TODO list. 20:19:26 <_deepfire> Fare, buildbot is top priority ATM. 20:20:05 of course. 20:20:17 -!- mstevens [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has quit [] 20:20:35 mstevens [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:20:40 <_deepfire> OTOH, when it's done, autoxcvbification will be even simpler, as it would be possible to make periodic, and without human intervention. 20:20:40 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:20:50 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:20:58 <_deepfire> "just another pass" for the bot. 20:21:18 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 20:21:33 nice 20:25:42 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590e8713.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:25:45 francogrex [n=user@109.120-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:25:50 hi 20:25:54 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590e8713.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:03 hello francogrex 20:27:07 all is well here? 20:27:19 Looks that way. 20:28:48 asked this in lispgames but thought i'd ask here as well just in case; is there any UK based fellows considering going to one of the Global Game Jam events next year, end of Jan 2010? 20:29:27 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:33 Guthur: Why do you care where they are based? 20:30:05 well i'm in the uk, and was thinking of meeting up, would like to give lisp a look in 20:30:24 Axius [n=ade@92.82.93.220] has joined #lisp 20:30:35 otherwise the chances of finding another lisper at an event are not going to be great 20:30:57 Guthur: So it is better to meet between a person in northern Scotland and southern England than between Dover and Calais? 20:31:50 i was asking for help on acessing network drives in cll; in sbcl seems to work fine as "\\\drive\\data\\" but I got nothing good working for ecl. Anyone actually tried accessing network drives? 20:31:52 i went to the glasgow one last time, true its not much of a difference though in France i assume they probably speak french 20:32:07 Oh, the horror! 20:32:15 Guthur: I recognize that attitude from my native country, and I really hate it. 20:32:33 my french doesn't really advance beyond, Bonjour Parlais vous anglais 20:33:13 Guthur: The surprising fact, though, is that some French people might speak English to you if you are nice. 20:33:20 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-090-086.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:34:08 varjagg [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:10 ya they do, I don't mind France at all 20:34:51 mstevens_ [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:34:52 -!- mstevens [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:34:56 -!- mstevens_ is now known as mstevens 20:34:58 Guthur: The EU was created to make us think beyond the borders, and I am convinced the UK is not ripe yet, but make an effort, please. 20:35:02 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.93.220] has quit [Client Quit] 20:35:09 I can say I'm irish so don't get the usual oh you are English soarness 20:35:17 okflo [n=okflo@91-115-88-20.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:35:50 beach honest its only the language thing here, its to make a game in 48 hours 20:36:19 it's 20:36:39 Guthur: Then please phrase your question in terms of language as opposed to nationality. 20:36:47 i have to fly anyway to get anywhere so it's not much difference 20:37:27 i did say in terms of language 20:37:30 Guthur: As an Irish citizen, you should know better than that. 20:37:33 i went to the glasgow one last time, true its not much of a difference though in France i assume they probably speak french 20:37:42 Guthur: No, you said UK. 20:37:56 Last time I checked UK was a nation and not a language. 20:38:08 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:25 Well if i said 'english speaking country' i would have to qualify it by saying, expect US, Canada, or Australia 20:38:36 expect/except 20:38:56 not me, though 20:38:56 I only speak French under all circumstances, out of principle 20:39:18 "Speak French when you can't think of the English for a thing. It saves time." --the Red Queen to Alice 20:39:20 Canadians do speak French as well 20:39:28 i forgot that 20:40:08 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:40:11 Some of them. 20:40:15 i suppose i could have said English speaking country in Europe 20:40:32 Two of those, the last I counted. 20:40:44 ya, some Irish speakers in Ireland though 20:41:12 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 20:41:13 Krystof: Sure, but your French is not that great sometimes :-) 20:41:51 [nor is mine of course] 20:42:33 Netherlands might be an option I suppose 20:42:47 they all speak great English 20:42:54 Guthur: All this should teach you to be more precise here in #lisp. 20:42:57 well most I have met anyway 20:43:21 Guthur: No they dont. Nor do the Swedes, contrary to their reputation. 20:43:34 I was very precise, I wanted to meet some people in the UK, due to language and geographical closeness 20:43:45 never specified the reasons though 20:45:18 there is an event in Dublin, but it would actually be more awkward in many ways 20:45:33 -!- okflo [n=okflo@91-115-88-20.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 20:46:21 -!- sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 20:46:33 Guthur: Good luck with your nationalistic and linguistic prejudices. 20:47:20 hehe communication is rather important when trying to make a game in 48 hours 20:48:03 and contrary to popular UK opinion speaking louder and slower doesn't make people understand English when they don't speak it 20:48:23 Guthur: I can give you a long list of names of people who are not native anglophones but that would do much better than English or Irish kids. 20:48:35 no doubt 20:48:36 speaking louder and slower is often accompanied by an increase of non-verbal communication 20:48:38 Guthur: People like antifuchs come to mind. 20:49:18 beach, yep it's a sorry state of affairs; but true 20:49:20 not that I'd want to make a game, though (: 20:49:29 reading erik naggum is frightening 20:49:30 antifuchs: Of course. 20:49:40 not now, at least (: 20:49:40 tcr: Very nice stuff! 20:49:40 it's the "taking to stupid invisible people" time of week, right? 20:50:19 tcr: Just keep telling yourself he's dead, and you won't worry so much. 20:50:36 cmm: but I'm not invisible! 20:50:37 I mean from a language comprehension point of view 20:50:38 antifuchs well of course if you have no interest in games then its not really a good event to go to 20:50:49 jcowan: not that kind of frightening 20:51:30 Details. A zombie is a zombie. 20:52:06 *cmm* hides from Fare 20:52:25 francogr` [n=user@109.120-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:52:56 msg nickserv ghost francogrex Zabra-911 20:53:05 yoheee 20:53:11 -!- francogrex [n=user@109.120-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:53:20 beach, you were just being pedantic, right? 20:53:20 well 20:53:27 happy new password 20:53:37 Guthur: The fact that I suggested a person that would be great for you, but who happens not to be interested, does not support your general idea of geographic restriction. 20:53:38 hahah 20:53:41 well 20:53:45 probably at several sites 20:53:48 how do I get one 20:54:07 Krystof? 20:54:13 a new one 20:54:19 francogr`: msg nickserv help 20:54:49 hmm: meanwhile I HYPNOTIZE YOU ALL: YOU HAVE SEEN NOTHING!!! 20:55:22 it's too late, the NSA keyword filter has already fired and the black helicopters are on their way 20:55:42 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:05 cmm: Weren't you working at Intel in Jerusalem? 20:56:05 -!- francogr` is now known as francogrex 20:56:14 george [n=george@189.107.153.110] has joined #lisp 20:56:21 beach: they were surprised enough in Glasgow that i flew over last year for it, if i went to France they would probably think i am positively crazy 20:56:23 *jcowan* grumbles about losing the opportunity to commit identity theft. 20:57:02 Guthur: I'm sorry, I just see too much of this nationalistic crap when I visit my family, and it's a breath of fresh air to be in Bordeaux. This is why what you said makes me react. No problem. Go on with your nationalistic views. 20:57:46 *_deepfire* hates nationalistic crap no less 20:57:51 beach, hehe i'm tempted to go all Jeremy Clarkson, but i don't think you would see the funny side 20:58:02 (apply #'gimme-3-args-and-1-optional '(a b c)) -> the &optional should not be provided at all, right? 20:58:15 or does the fact that the list terminate in NIL confuse APPLY? (or rather, confuses -me-) 20:58:19 Guthur: I have tried to convince my friends from Scotland to convert to the Euro currency, but they seem to think it's illegal. 20:58:54 beach they get funny about Northern Irish notes on the mainland 20:58:55 tcr: no, never. visited the site a couple of times while working for the pre-previous employer, though 20:59:17 i swear even if i pointed to the Pound Stirling on it they still wouldn't take it 20:59:21 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:59:37 not so bad now, because of the Euro actually 20:59:42 Guthur: I am willing to believe you. 21:00:12 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 21:00:18 Greetings. 21:00:40 tcr: why? 21:00:40 loxs [n=loxs@85-130-35-10.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:58 well, I will be anoying but to change my pass it says: SETPASS 21:02:08 tcr: I was cleaning the drive and backing up my workstation this weekend and saw that account I created for you to test building SBCL. Do you still need that? 21:02:13 what is account and what is key? 21:02:30 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590e8713.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:02:47 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590e8713.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:59 \help nickserv 21:03:03 oops 21:03:16 francogrex, I assume account is your current account nickname, and we all know what key is.... 21:03:29 i was going to check for you francogrex, i did the exact same thing as you a couple of weeks ago 21:03:42 adlai knows 21:03:54 Guthur: clumsiness is contagious :) 21:04:26 *Adlai* knows only that he knows nothing 21:04:27 Adlai, a key can be anything I don't have a special key 21:05:11 Wombatzus [n=user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:33 francogrex, read the entire help message 21:05:48 SETPASS allows you to set a new password using a key emailed to you. 21:06:29 well, in the intial email? was deleted centuries ago 21:06:53 tmh: Nope, thanks! 21:06:53 -!- Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:06:55 you don't need the key, if i remember right 21:07:03 can't get the darn help though 21:07:06 francogrex, right, I'm guessing you need to get a new email 21:07:15 cmm: I read an article in the newspapers and I thought you were working there 21:07:36 sykopomp: what are you confused about? 21:07:40 this is shit 21:07:48 a new email? 21:08:06 francogrex, you need to get freenode to send you an email with a key 21:08:16 demmeln: I have a function that takes 4 numbers: 3 are required, one is optional 21:08:34 when I do (apply #'the-func '(0 0 0)), I get an error because the 4th number is "nil" 21:08:39 sykopomp: nil is the default 21:08:49 yet the &optional for that function is: &optional (d 1.0) 21:08:55 demmeln, there's a default 21:08:56 so it's -supposed- to default to 1.0 21:09:03 oh 21:09:08 it may be worth noting that this function is being inlined 21:09:15 or at least, there's a declaim inline for it 21:09:30 show a test case 21:09:50 tcr: it only happens with CCL. Let me paste the offending code. 21:10:08 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 21:10:09 no read the help for setpass 21:10:10 so it's perhaps a bug in their inlining frobage 21:10:12 it says 21:10:21 To set a new password if you know the current 21:10:21 -NickServ- password, use SET PASSWORD instead of SETPASS. 21:10:38 marioxcc [n=user@201.132.83.64] has joined #lisp 21:10:43 unless someone has changed it of course, in the mean time 21:10:50 tcr, is "frobage" like "fromage"? 21:11:22 sykopomp pasted "gl:color fubar" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90519 21:11:32 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:11:41 Adlai: you mean regarding pronunciation? 21:12:05 Tech Model Railroad Club: the *finest* name in frobage. 21:12:17 tcr, linguistic origin :D 21:12:32 sykopomp annotated #90519 "definline definition" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90519#1 21:12:41 lispm [n=joswig@g224127219.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:58 -!- george__ [n=george@189.107.201.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:13:02 -!- Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has left #lisp 21:13:34 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:13:48 jargon frobage 21:13:55 Plz fix 21:14:22 -!- francogrex [n=user@109.120-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:14:42 zazatest [n=user@109.120-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:14:46 tcr, just a lame joke about the similarity. I know what "frob" means 21:15:24 -!- zazatest [n=user@109.120-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has left #lisp 21:15:31 "Frobbage" would be a more English-y spelling, though it does suggest Babbage. 21:15:52 Frobbery. 21:16:13 syko: That does look kind of damning, doesn't it ... 21:16:16 colin__ [n=colin@118-169-33-97.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:27 sykopomp: seems to be a bug in ccl then 21:16:44 demmeln: that's a suspicion, yes. 21:17:40 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:18:00 tcr: are, that 21:18:08 -!- pipa [n=pipa@ip-213-49-126-136.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:18:56 *cmm* is emarrassed for his penguinesque troglodite compatriots 21:20:05 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:20:42 francogrex [n=user@109.120-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:20:59 ok for the people to know: /msg nickserv set password $newpass 21:21:10 works without any key 21:21:14 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-126-110.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:21:15 francogrex i did post that for you like 10 mins ago 21:21:26 sorry i forgot to add your nick 21:21:45 Guthur: my connection is f**ed up so I probably was out of IURC when you posted 21:21:57 thanks anyway 21:22:10 no probs 21:22:18 as long as your not french 21:22:29 now on to real stuff: how to set pathname to acess network drives? 21:22:29 hehe only joking beach 21:22:31 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-195-97.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:39 you're 21:22:43 I'm not french, I'm belgian 21:23:13 that's ok no one could dislike a belgian, i'm sure 21:24:04 if someone asked the least offensive country, it probably is Belgium 21:24:10 -!- colin_ [n=colin@118.169.37.249] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:24:28 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:00 s/asked/asked for 21:25:15 well at least that for us 21:25:17 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:25:36 -!- yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109-184-137-231.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has left #lisp 21:25:44 we can get some credits for being peaceful 21:26:28 rares1 [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:04 <_deepfire> Guthur, that's limited to the EU. There must be some poor countries on Africa which will win miles on that criterion. 21:27:17 well you never really had a chance to be anything but in the last 2 big european wars 21:27:40 <_deepfire> Guthur, also, aggression doesn't necessary have to be military, it can also be economic/financial. 21:27:43 knocked out in the first week, or something similar length of time 21:28:37 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-42-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:28:50 i meant offensive not in military terms, can think of anyone saying, 'oh i don't like those Belgians' 21:28:58 can/can't 21:29:45 <_deepfire> I think we can agree that general populace isn't the cause of grief in the world. So nothing to dislike about it, in any given country, I believe. 21:29:49 though i think there is some futurist fiction of neo facism rising out of the benelux countries 21:29:50 Guthur: but I'm also sure you'll notr find anyine saying "oh I love those belgians" either 21:30:11 -!- rares1 [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 21:30:20 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-jotmuivsgrqtxjgm] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:30:29 francogrex, probably true, lack of offensiveness due to obscurity 21:30:48 most of the reactions I get; hmm belgian hmm interesting... now where is that cheesetray? 21:30:50 Considering the example form (defun foo (arg) (if (< (lower-limit) foo (upper-limit)) ...), what is the appropriate way to have the lower and upper limit functions evaluated at read/compile time? 21:31:15 sykopomp annotated #90519 "backtrace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90519#2 21:31:41 I've seen #.(lower-limit) used, but that doesn't seem right/robust. 21:32:16 sykopomp annotated #90519 "glColor4f CFFI" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90519#3 21:32:18 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@85.65.81.179.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:32:25 nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:31 tmh: you can make a compiler macro 21:32:34 -!- nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:44 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:09 rahul: Ok, good. I've been wanting to learn when/how to use compiler macros. Finally have a reason. 21:33:46 nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:50 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:33:59 -!- legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-42-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:34:10 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-42-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:34:53 Compiler macros aren't very good at that, unfortunately. :( 21:34:55 -!- legumbre [n=leo@190.135.42.252] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:35:29 (define-compiler-macro lower-limit () 5 21:35:31 ) 21:36:00 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:36:09 tmh: actually inline decaration would work fine, and have fewer points of failure 21:36:20 -!- francogrex [n=user@109.120-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:36:23 Oh, I thought he wanted the "if" evaluated at compile time if it could be 21:36:39 oh, I don't think he wants that 21:36:59 Probably my misunderstanding, sorry. 21:37:03 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [] 21:37:15 rahul interpreted it correctly. 21:37:21 Ralith_ [n=ralith@d142-058-080-075.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:37:42 I want the (lower-limit) and (upper-limit) functions replaced with the result. 21:37:51 yeah, inline is good for that. Except if you have too many, SBCL gets hella slow. :) 21:38:32 What other ways are there to accomplish that? So I've heard compiler-macro and inline declaration. 21:38:47 normal macro 21:38:50 heh 21:38:59 constant 21:39:11 yeah, I'm not sure why you need a function there 21:39:16 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@188.104.85.104] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:39:23 or an operator in general 21:39:25 Krystof: DEFCONSTANT won't work here, the limits are calculated. 21:39:31 tmh: calculated when? 21:39:43 At read/compile time. 21:39:48 defconstant can compute things just fine at compile time 21:40:02 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-090-086.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:40:05 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 21:40:19 (defconstant +upper-limit+ (+ 5 (* 6 (second (read (open "limits.lisp-expr")))) 21:40:19 is there an macrolet variant of define-compiler-macro ? 21:40:35 saikatc [n=saikatc@adsl-71-139-210-181.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:55 lhz: I doubt it would be used by more than one person a year 21:41:06 rahul: I get confused by defconstant. 21:41:12 even that is probably a stretch 21:41:18 rahul: why's that? 21:41:24 compiler-macros are pretty useless. Their intent is something like sbcl's transforms, but you can't actually reasonably use them for that. 21:41:28 tmh: you should learn defconstant before you learn define-compiler-macro, then :) 21:41:45 foom: yeah, not without useful information in the environment 21:41:51 <_deepfire> Aha, so weblocks is the first case when we need mercurial->git translation. 21:41:52 I think CCL extended define-compiler-macro instead of introducing a separate mechanism, though? 21:42:17 rahul: Yes, I had resigned DEFCONSTANT to use with literals. 21:42:18 sorry.. I'm confused.. I want symbol-macrolet :) 21:42:31 lhz: ok, that's much more sensible :) 21:42:50 tmh: as long as your limit does not change, this is an atomic value 21:43:09 so there will be no compiler gripes 21:43:30 if it does change, you better be warned that you need to recompile code that uses it 21:44:29 It won't change. 21:46:40 then there's nothing to worry about 21:47:54 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Nantes-117-3-40.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:52:45 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@92.229.82.86] has quit ["humhum"] 21:53:47 good night 21:54:38 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06cba0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["channel"] 21:54:43 compiler-macros are fine for cases where you do complicated processing of an object at runtime, and can shunt some of that processing to compile time if that object is a constant 21:55:04 for example, basically all of FORMAT can be ruthelessly optimized if the format-string is a constant by a compiler macro 21:55:44 similarly, regexps, dsl evaluators... 21:56:09 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-195-97.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:56:28 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:58:46 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:59:07 Jabberwockey [n=jens@p54AD5B5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:22 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:00:43 -!- Guest58140 [n=user@72.14.228.129] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:03:20 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:03:23 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:04:14 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:05:48 foom: (re e-mail) that is fantastic news; awesome 22:06:28 Krystof: yup. :) looking forward to it. 22:07:07 rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:30 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224127219.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:10:32 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp104.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:59 -!- rread [n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:12:02 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590e8713.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:12:24 foom: this almost sounds like you're coming to london (: 22:12:35 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32EFC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:40 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 22:15:57 Jabberwock [n=jens@p54AD5B5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:28 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:17:45 ...which would be very awesome indeed 22:17:59 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@p54AD5B5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:18:41 antifuchs: yep! 22:19:13 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:35 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.221.224] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 22:20:01 this is pretty extreme awesomeness. 22:20:18 yay (: 22:21:20 Maybe we can have a "teach me how to make a new backend" session where by I trick everyone else into starting an LLVM backend. :) 22:21:44 -!- varjagg [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:21:57 haha 22:22:09 one for each participant, or one backend for the whole congregation? 22:22:31 foom: I feel tempted to wreck such a session by writing VAX backend ;-) 22:23:00 -!- centipedefarmer [n=nothingH@173-25-176-111.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:23:04 remember, nothing sucks like a hacker writing VAX backends 22:23:13 Well, I'm sure there's plenty enough work even to get a single one done. :P 22:23:34 foom: I was expressing interest in an LLVM backend in here the other day. I'd attend your session. 22:23:43 (in theory) 22:23:55 LLVM for SBCL? 22:24:04 SBCL on LLVM 22:24:22 Ralith_ [n=ralith@d142-058-085-244.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 22:24:31 LLVM-backend for SBCL? 22:24:55 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-080-075.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:24:58 antifuchs: I'm thinking of picking up digital's VAX Architecture Reference and VMS Internals, v5.2 tomorrow :) 22:25:05 *tic* confused. 22:25:12 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 22:25:14 heh 22:26:13 still, with SBCL/vax we could port it to VMS 7.3 and from there it's only a matter of writing IA-64 to have it on 8.3 I64... ;-) 22:26:34 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:39 don't forget that you don't necessarily need to bootstrap sbcl from sbcl itself (: 22:27:05 antifuchs: sure :D 22:27:41 *p_l* just considered loading ECL into *kernel* 22:28:04 does anyone still use VAX? 22:28:46 not me (: 22:29:20 I suspect you might find some places still running VAXen 22:29:20 foom: probably only via emulation 22:30:21 Oracle not so long ago ran emulated VAXen under CHARON-VAX for developement 22:35:29 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit ["·"] 22:36:29 asdf25 [n=jeff@pool-71-126-137-67.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:12 -!- CeQealizerG [n=none@h-60-195.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 22:41:35 (meanwhile, back to mundanity: hooray, teaching materials for tomorrow's sessions finally finished, approximately. Become a lecturer! Lose all your spare time!) 22:41:49 -!- acrid [n=mckay@204.126.146.202] has quit ["leaving"] 22:42:00 -!- asdf25 [n=jeff@pool-71-126-137-67.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:44:52 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:45:44 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:46:29 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 22:47:02 aburrido [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 22:47:52 Hun` [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:48:24 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:48:54 gah it was a mcclim bug 22:49:08 well, rather unnecessary funcitonality caused by misreading of the spec 22:50:52 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:51:09 Krystof: What about life as postgrad? I already learned how to hoard all free food.... 22:51:17 and I'm just second year undergrad... 22:54:32 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:49 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:55:25 -!- erk [n=MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:57:19 p_l: You're talking about going through a VAX to get a VMS port of SBCL instead of using VMS on Alpha? 22:57:55 nyef: I'll have VAX-centric VMS internals book soon 22:58:15 You also have the VMS filesystem book? 22:58:23 though fortunately I've got a somewhat sensible emulator of ES40 22:58:25 nope 22:58:49 p_l did you find a home yet 22:59:08 nyef: If no-one grabs it, I''l have VMS Internals v5.2 + VAX Architecture Reference, plus my PDF copy of writing VMS device drivers 22:59:12 Guthur: nope 22:59:15 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:59:36 at least I assured today that I haven't failed Psychology ^^; 22:59:44 p_l: Nice. I think my VMS Internals is 4.x or so. Nto sure. 22:59:57 there were two editions, 4.x and 5.2 22:59:58 s/Nto/Not/ 23:00:12 (left on that "take away freely" table) 23:00:29 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-132-7-1.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 23:00:37 it would be better to get v6.x or later, of course 23:01:03 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:55 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:01:58 oudeis [n=oudeis@93-172-204-211.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 23:02:32 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:02:49 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:01 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:03:52 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-066.iasi.cablelink.ro] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:08:58 -!- mstevens [n=michaels@jobs.etla.org] has quit [] 23:12:51 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:14:10 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 23:15:02 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:16:39 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-1-243.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:18:27 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:09 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:19:36 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-085-244.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 23:19:55 *nyef* is alternating between impressed and underwhelmed with BitPim. 23:22:19 BitPim? 23:23:17 cellphone sync software. 23:23:25 Written in that-other-python. 23:23:42 ziga`` [n=user@89.142.60.106] has joined #lisp 23:23:46 lol @ that-other-python 23:24:10 even those-other-people tend to call it cpython 23:24:20 I'm okay with that 23:24:47 *Adlai* would pick clisp anyday over cpython 23:25:28 even clisp 23:26:05 Adlai: Unladen Swallow might make cpython faster than clisp, though (But I'll just keep to ECL/CCL/SBCL xD) 23:26:32 p_l, Unladen Swallow is gonna be compiled, right? 23:26:38 might even get as fast as Go... 23:26:46 Adlai: cpython is also compiled. 23:27:06 I'm amazed that Go manages to be compiled and still have things like runtime closures 23:27:14 Adlai: Unladen Swallow generates native code 23:27:18 -!- ziga` [n=user@89.142.60.110] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:27:18 and array bounds checking 23:27:26 *Adlai* 23:27:51 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:28:05 pkhuong, I thought that cpython converts the python source to bytecode which is then interpreted 23:29:17 What do you think compiling means? 23:29:17 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:29:27 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-73-155.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:46 true... I assumed you were talking about compiling to native code 23:31:41 -!- ntd [n=user@daneel.cc.gt.atl.ga.us] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:34:01 i mentioned lisp to a lecturer today and he said, that's slow, its interpreted 23:34:42 Does this same lecturer not have a problem with Java? 23:34:43 to be fair though, i don't think he has ever even looked at lisp 23:34:55 nyef actually he probably does 23:35:04 At least that's reasonably fair. 23:35:06 he's MS through and through 23:35:21 I wonder how he feels about haskell then. 23:35:32 and probably prefer C++ above all else 23:35:40 might tolerate C# though 23:35:47 Surely he prefers C#.NET, if he's MS through and through? 23:36:17 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:36:38 foom, ya, to be honest i'm not sure, i just know when i said i moved away from MS platform he gave me a funny look 23:36:41 seriously 23:36:55 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-149-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:59 I sometimes hear about this alternative universe where everyone uses C# for all their coding. 23:37:09 It's kind of funny because I'm so isolated from that. 23:38:01 Nobody I interact with regularly is working for an all-MS shop so from my POV nobody uses C#...but I know that's not true in the wider world. :) 23:38:14 he is very much into games I think, thats actually why I was talking to him, regarding hosting a global game jam event at the uni 23:38:20 foom: I've actually seen this wierd world that is somewhat like that. They actually do a lot of server-side javascript in this world, but whenever they do something that doesn't have to fit their existing server-side framework they break out the C# or VB.net. 23:39:00 Guthur: Take a copy of SICP and beat your lecturer to death, please. Think of it as evolution in action. 23:39:50 nyef, what's the use of running javascript server-side? It's slow and compiled, you might as well run lisp... 23:40:05 err slow and *interpreted 23:40:15 *Adlai* fails at joke 23:40:22 jcowan i actually nearly laughed, i mentioned how it was the most common misinterpretation of lisp 23:41:06 Adlai: It was a consultantware software package, so the point was to be able to get warm bodies that they could throw into building functionality quickly. 23:41:24 -!- Jabberwock [n=jens@p54AD5B5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:41:52 Retardedpope [n=Retarded@c-66-56-9-145.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:52 Odd world. Interesting to visit on occasion, but I wouldn't want to live there. 23:42:39 Can't I define a function that takes no arguments? 23:43:00 *Adlai* thinks somebody hasn't been reading his PCL 23:43:08 never mind 23:43:17 Retardedpope: Mathematically, no. In most programming langauges (including most lisps), yes. 23:43:38 Retardedpope, an argument list can, like any list, be an empty list. 23:44:06 Adlai: that's what I figured out... 23:47:29 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:48:27 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:49:52 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 23:50:19 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-195-97.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:29 Aaaarrrgghhhhhhh! 23:50:38 p_l: herep 23:55:19 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.217.114] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:55:43 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 23:55:55 -!- davazp [n=user@156.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:56:08 mathematically, sure you can 23:56:23 it's a constant function, not to be confused with a constant variable 23:57:14 Please, please, please. If you have any friends who are considering writing a book for Apress and they value their sanity, please have them talk to me first. 23:57:48 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@adsl-71-139-210-181.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:58:21 saikatc [n=saikatc@adsl-71-139-210-181.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:56 :)