00:00:20 -!- sandin [i=lalalal@143-147-85-95.dynamic.stcable.net] has quit ["Cao..."] 00:00:22 anyone got elephant to run with BDB 4.7? 00:00:49 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:02:47 weirdo: last time I tried, I couldn't get elephant to work 00:02:51 <``Erik> (does anyone have a good critical analysis of elephant vs rucksack?) 00:02:59 what the figging frig 00:03:06 <``Erik> other than bills old blog entry? 00:03:18 it does sig11 with 4.7 :( 00:03:19 rucksack seems neat because it's lisp all the way down. 00:03:37 is rucksack under any development? 00:03:50 Fade: add manardb to that list then (or bknr.datastore) 00:03:57 s/or/and/ 00:04:00 jeez compiling clisp is kicking my ass 00:04:20 <``Erik> I'm at the point in a project where cl-store is nice because you just ... do it, and it works, but the data set is getting too big to write efficiently 00:04:25 fe[nl]ix: ping 00:04:43 bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:46 madnificent: pong 00:04:48 to what extent does clisp work nicely with fastcgi? anyone using it? 00:05:02 people are so interested in doing The Right Thing that no datastore is fully operational 00:05:20 doh! 00:05:23 weirdo: I don't know how active it is. I think it might be feature complete. 00:05:32 I know drewc favours it and uses it for a few things. 00:05:38 fe[nl]ix: apparently you need to use with-connection, in order to avoid the connection already in use error in postmodern 00:05:39 whats interesting is bill gates has proved that performance is not the ultimate, its something easy to use 00:05:44 that wins 00:05:49 -!- pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-96-250-220-91.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 00:06:02 *froydnj* fights with compiling sbcl on x86-64 linux 00:06:12 fe[nl]ix: just wanted to tell you that as you've helped me out with it 00:06:21 madnificent: and why are you telling me that ? 00:06:22 <``Erik> the_unmaker: ease of use is dominant if performance is adequate... when performance becomes an issue, that changes :) 00:06:31 hmm 00:06:39 installing clisp=not ease of use 00:06:40 madnificent: lol, I don't remember helping you with this 00:06:46 keeps takin a dump on me 00:07:01 short site name bit maybe I am messing up 00:07:06 and long site name 00:07:07 *madnificent* is suddenly scared, perhaps he's telling the wrong guy... must've been drewc then 00:07:11 anyone compile clisp lately? 00:07:12 sigh, damn memory 00:07:25 the_unmaker: on gentoo... 00:07:38 its really pissing me off 00:07:38 clisp compiles on darwin/osx in macports without any particular gymnastics, at least it did last week. 00:07:47 with clx-new? 00:10:00 what has clx-new got to do with compiling clisp? 00:11:02 Fade: the new clx is written in C 00:11:09 the archlinux package apparently lacks it 00:11:15 Fade: uses xlib 00:11:16 and stumpwm needs it 00:11:18 huh 00:11:18 :) 00:11:25 bizarre. 00:11:38 the_unmaker: what have you been told? either compile clisp, or use SBCL 00:11:56 the_unmaker: are you sure ? it used to work with the MIT clx 00:12:05 I am trying to get make install to work for clisp 2.48 as we speak 00:12:14 fe[nl]ix: I am sure of that, I built stumpwm with clisp about two weeks ago. 00:12:20 stumpwm guys helping me 00:12:25 (and had to compile it myself) 00:12:30 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:13:08 -!- Edward [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-11-191.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 00:13:43 it worked! woo ha 00:13:47 and with readline 00:13:49 oh yeah!! 00:14:09 -!- johnny_z [n=anonymou@217.24.250.130] has quit [] 00:14:40 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:16:09 <_3b> yay, 375Mtris/sec in ccl now too :p 00:16:47 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:16:48 <_3b> (doing all the work on the GPU makes it matter much less whether the lisp code is optimized or not :) 00:19:29 _3b: tris? 00:19:35 <_3b> triangles 00:19:39 ah right 00:20:10 which gfx card? 00:20:21 <_3b> nvidia gtx285 00:20:59 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@76.168.84.210] has quit ["restart"] 00:21:16 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:22:30 that is a lot of tris 00:22:59 <_3b> card can probably do more, the code is still pretty bad :p 00:24:17 Hey all, I was wondering why this is in hex? http://paste.lisp.org/display/87749 00:24:33 pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:39 Arr 00:24:40 <_3b> clhs ~x 00:24:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cbe.htm 00:24:41 ~x 00:24:51 Sorry, I thought maybe it was my loop :P 00:25:04 ~D was what I wanted, I think 00:25:13 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:25:18 Still, very awesome to see that ~x is there...format seems somewhat insane 00:26:12 <_3b> heh, ~x is normal, try ~r or something :p 00:26:56 Wow...that's cool 00:27:01 what made you try ~X? 00:27:41 stassats's example, I think 00:27:55 I wasn't sure about the directives, but I just found http://www.gnu.org/software/kawa/Format.html, and that seems pretty good 00:28:52 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:29:39 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-84-210.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:46 oh god 00:29:56 clhs anything 00:29:56 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for anything. 00:30:12 seangrove: specbot here is at your disposal 00:30:43 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:15 It seems interesting though.. ~{~} iterates through a list, right? 00:33:28 So you could do it in a loop or directly in format 00:34:47 yep 00:34:53 coliv [n=Coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:41 That's simply crazy :D 00:37:11 my clisp compile won't find xlib 00:37:35 yet I am using x windows 00:37:38 and iceWM right now 00:37:43 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:58 er my stumpwm compile 00:38:00 oops 00:38:02 they dont know 00:38:09 why might lisp not find xlib 00:38:13 -!- coliv [n=Coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:38:15 is there some xlib package for lip 00:38:21 I should have clx-new 00:38:28 but not sure howto ask clisp if i have it 00:38:57 clx's package is xlib 00:39:02 -!- seangrove [n=user@173.11.104.25] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:40:46 the_unmaker: check the *features* variable 00:41:39 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 00:43:38 -!- pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:44:04 ak70` [n=user@195.158.89.22] has joined #lisp 00:49:33 jlf` [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 00:50:06 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 00:52:04 bl [i=48597c07@gateway/web/freenode/x-kjwavfibdfywjufr] has joined #lisp 00:56:14 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:58 fe[nl]ix: pung 00:58:01 e_unmaker: cant believe i spent 3 hour trying to install a common lisp wm 00:58:16 ansur [n=ansur@c-98-220-107-98.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:30 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441929.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:01:35 seangrove [n=user@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:52 -!- ak70 [n=user@195.158.89.22] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:03:16 wgl: pong 01:04:17 ping 01:05:51 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:06:44 tolstoy [n=tolstoy@207.162.221.40] has joined #lisp 01:07:39 why would clbuild give me bus errors? 01:08:07 -!- bl [i=48597c07@gateway/web/freenode/x-kjwavfibdfywjufr] has quit ["Page closed"] 01:08:15 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:08:18 -!- the_unmaker [n=g@w005.z209031033.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:08:59 Adlai pasted "what is wrong with the world" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87754 01:09:01 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:09:48 Does anyone know if the lisp paste bot can compile on modern versions of SBCL? 01:10:00 I followed the instructions, got a few errors. 01:10:11 Then noticed that the last update to the pastbot was 2004. 01:11:46 <_3b> which instructions/what errors? 01:12:11 Version: http://common-lisp.net/project/lisppaste/ 2.3 01:12:17 The instructions were in the readme. 01:12:26 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:13:10 <_3b> http://paste.lisp.org/system-server/show/lisppaste claims current version is 2.4, not sure how to get that all at once though 01:13:16 I'll be happy to hunt down the source code or what have you, just wondering if it had even been updated since 2004. 01:13:21 -!- jlf` [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:14:10 <_3b> http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/lisppaste2/?root=lisppaste seems to be it 01:14:15 Maybe I should send an email to Brian Mastenbrook? 01:15:08 Hm. Wow. 01:15:24 I couldn't even compile arainada on the ubuntu version of sbcl. 01:15:55 <_3b> yeah, that part might be harder :) 01:16:15 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.200.176] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 01:17:19 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:17:36 *rtoym* successfully compiled araneida with cmucl a month ago. 01:18:03 I get an error (sbcl) sb-sys, with-enabled-interrupts not found. 01:18:14 way too many projects still sit in CVS 01:18:18 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 01:18:20 *Lisp projects 01:19:08 Praps there's another pastebot out there. There was one on sourceforge. 01:19:19 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@75.36.204.63] has joined #lisp 01:19:48 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-220-175.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:58 http://pastebot.sourceforge.net/ 01:20:03 Strangely sparse on details. 01:20:16 anyone used rucksack? is it any good? 01:20:26 because doc/do.txt says something about crashes 01:20:33 And very old. 01:20:47 ak70`` [n=user@195.158.89.22] has joined #lisp 01:22:11 tolstoy: I guess that means recent sbcl no longer has with-enabled-interrupts, or maybe it's in a different package or something. 01:22:37 Yes, that sounds reasonable. 01:22:45 benny` [n=benny@i577A0949.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:22:54 I guess the current pastebot is sitting on and old, good-enough system. 01:23:18 -!- Retardedpope [n=Retarded@c-66-56-9-145.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:23:52 0.9.x 01:23:58 i believe 01:24:18 I work with David Lamkins. Maybe he'll be up for modernizing it a bit. 01:24:29 stassats`: antique :D 01:24:43 tolstoy: where ? 01:24:58 Company called Chockstone in Portland, OR. 01:25:46 Whenever I do C-c C-k in emacs, I get "compilation unit aborted. caught 1 fatal ERROR condition. compilation aborted after 0:00:00" - Is there anyway for me to find out what that error condition was? 01:26:37 <_3b> seangrove: check repl or *SLIME Compilation* buffer? 01:26:59 <_3b> or see if M-p or M-n goes to the error 01:28:06 Ah, M-p is nice 01:28:15 I guess it can't find package sb-md5 01:28:52 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:29:02 <_3b> if this is what you pasted earlier, you might want eval-when around the require calls 01:29:26 Strange..if I type C-c C-c on the (require :sb-md5) it works, but C-c C-k didn't :P 01:29:34 _3b: Yeah, that seems to have fixed it 01:29:49 <_3b> C-c C-c compiles and loads just 1 form 01:30:09 Yeah, but C-c C-k should load the whole file, which has the require at the top 01:30:13 <_3b> C-c C-k compiles entire file, then loads results, so any parts of the file that expect previous parts to have been loaded already won't work 01:30:34 Yet if I C-c C-c the require at the top and then C-c C-k it works 01:31:09 <_3b> right, the C-c C-c loads the compiled require form, causing it to be evaluated, so the module gets loaded 01:31:21 <_3b> once that has happened, the file can be compiled 01:32:03 <_3b> you could just as effectively type the require form at the repl, and C-c C-k would work on that file 01:32:33 Ok, so if the require is in the file that I'm using C-c C-k on, it's won't work by virtue of not having the required module? 01:33:24 <_3b> the require will work, but not until the file has been compiled and loaded, so it doesn't help with the compilation of /that/ file 01:34:00 Ah, got it 01:34:00 <_3b> you need to ensure the require happens before compilation of the rest of the file, either by putting it in a separate file that gets compiled and loaded first, or using eval-when to make it happen during compilation 01:34:00 you can #.(null (require :sb-md5)) 01:34:21 <_3b> right, that is another trick, which causes it to happen at read time 01:35:21 but you still need eval-when with at least :load-toplevel 01:35:34 -!- benny` is now known as benny 01:36:13 Heh, lisp is fun, but a bit daunting to do "real work" in 01:36:45 i can say that about any programming language i don't know 01:36:57 -!- ak70` [n=user@195.158.89.22] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:37:09 Ah, didn't mean it as a knock against lisp ;) 01:37:09 thou learning lisp teaches you alot about programming in general? 01:37:35 ansur: provided that you learn lisp through programming 01:38:17 what other way is there to learn lisp 01:38:55 by reading books, by teaching it to someone 01:39:01 -!- tolstoy [n=tolstoy@207.162.221.40] has quit [] 01:43:48 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 01:47:38 jlf` [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 01:48:00 Is there a link about writing DSL's in lisp? 01:48:12 I'm having a hard time here...doing things in a pretty backwards way I think 01:48:22 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-pyhotnnshwtsjbbj] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:49:05 there's a video: http://lispm.dyndns.org/mov/dsl-in-lisp.mov 01:49:32 Awesome! 01:49:33 Thanks 01:50:54 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 01:53:49 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 01:58:18 Are there any numerical/scientific libraries for CL 01:58:25 other than the GSL bindings? 01:58:51 maxima 01:59:52 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 01:59:53 necroforest: What kind of numeric/scientific libraries are you looking for? 02:00:33 One DSL, two DSLs. 02:01:07 just something that does linear algebra routines, mainly 02:01:15 matrices, vectors, inverses, etc. 02:01:21 99 DSLs on the wall. 02:01:32 and possibly some ODE-type stuff as well 02:01:48 I don't really like how GSL is GPL instead of LGPL 02:01:57 necroforest: There's matlisp and lisp-matrix. There are some others that escape me. cliki.net will tell you. 02:02:39 necroforest: Dunno about ODEs, but f2cl has a translation of odepack that appears to work. 02:03:34 Full disclosure: I am (was) one of the authors of matlisp, and I am the de facto maintainer of f2cl. 02:03:57 so if i don't like it i can complain to you? ;-) 02:04:56 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-166-23.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:05 -!- v0|d [n=user@213.232.33.243] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:06:05 -!- hefner_ [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-45-70.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:06:05 -!- pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:06:05 -!- sciendan [n=dan@c-69-250-212-245.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:06:05 -!- jyujin_ [n=jyujin@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:06:05 -!- cmm 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[n=user@r42.eu] has joined #lisp 02:07:11 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 02:07:11 bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:11 rbancroft [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:11 meingbg [n=meingbg@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:11 sepi [n=enigma@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 02:07:11 Borbus [i=borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:11 dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:11 tvaalen [n=tvaal@terminal.se] has joined #lisp 02:07:25 what sort of programss would you choose lisp over say perl ? 02:07:38 perl? none of them 02:07:51 <_3b> any programs i have to be involved in writing or maintaining? 02:08:00 i meant for what sort of projects people use lisp 02:08:16 *_3b* uses lisp for everything currently 02:08:16 ansur, you know lisp is a general purpose language right? 02:08:18 for everything 02:08:19 ilike people usually use C to write operating systems and compilers 02:08:27 <_3b> (except maybe the occasional bash for loop) 02:08:34 i had no idea 02:08:39 *_3b* writes compilers in lisp 02:08:59 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:09:07 so does it make it easier to do stuff in lisp than say perl or a compiler program like C 02:09:11 writing compilers in C is probably not a very pleasant thing 02:09:44 and there are operating systems written in Lisp 02:09:46 necroforest: Lalala, I can't hear you. :-) 02:10:22 <_3b> use lisp if you need/wantflexibility, use perl if someone else already write a lib that does exactly what you want in perl (and maybe not even then :), use C if you know exactly what you are doing and need it to be as fast as possible (even if it takes longer to write) 02:10:59 hm 02:11:02 guys 02:11:11 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@75.36.204.63] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:11:11 <_3b> note that the 'knowing exactly what you are doing' part of picking C might involve writing some lisp to explore the problem domain first 02:11:19 I'm trying to get some slime-written code to work in straight sbcl 02:11:41 and to aid this I've added clbuild's systems dir to asdf's central registery in .sbclrc 02:11:58 but when I try to load my code via asdf 02:12:04 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:04 I get a missing dependency on montezuma 02:12:10 but not any of the other clbuildy systems it uses 02:12:10 <_3b> did you remember the final / ? 02:12:16 <_3b> ah, dunno then 02:12:26 no :D 02:12:28 use grep 02:12:46 <_3b> compare the *central-registry* in slime and out of it 02:13:10 ansur, use lisp when you have a keyboard where the ( ) keys aren't as worn down as the rest of them 02:13:14 _3b: loads now. 02:13:15 <_3b> or just start the lisp with clbuild 02:13:15 it was the final / 02:13:39 okay, next issue 02:13:48 my .asd properly refers to all files 02:13:53 at least I think it's proper 02:13:59 but they don't seem to get loaded when I load the system :| 02:14:41 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.85.79] has joined #lisp 02:14:53 Ralith pasted "thune.asd" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87755 02:15:21 loading this does not appear to result in functions defined in the relevant files being defined. 02:15:33 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:15:42 I've tested from inside the relevant package, so it's not an export issue 02:16:13 nothing seems to depend on "package" 02:17:04 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:17:08 should something? It seemed a little strange to have it a dep for everything. 02:17:09 i don't really know in what order asdf loads it 02:17:14 also, it looks like it was a stale fasl issue. 02:17:19 i'm usually using :serial t 02:17:34 drop that in before :components? 02:17:37 <_3b> well, everything /does/ depend on it 02:17:40 seems like a good safety measure. 02:17:43 _3b: true. 02:17:49 do that then? :P 02:18:16 *_3b* usually just uses :serial t too though 02:18:38 id just like to be able to do awesome stuff with programming code 02:18:52 anyways /i think once i start studying the SICP book 02:18:57 things will clear up 02:19:53 rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has joined #lisp 02:20:35 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-124.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:24:39 fe[nl]ix: shouldn't sequence be ping, pong, pung, pack? 02:25:15 irrelevant 02:26:30 argh 02:26:39 okay I KNOW these fasls are good cuz they just got regenerated 02:26:49 so why is loading my system in slime not resulting in any functions being defined? 02:27:54 this smells like missing/incorrect IN-PACKAGE form(s) 02:28:17 it's not 02:28:27 I have the standard in-package atop each file 02:28:37 most certainly the main one :P 02:28:53 but there are literally NO symbols defined inside my package 02:29:11 and they certainly haven't landed outside it, either 02:29:24 really really certainly ? 02:29:31 yes 02:29:36 in my file: 02:29:39 (defvar *conf* nil) 02:29:43 in my repl: 02:29:51 The variable *CONF* is unbound. 02:30:00 tried (apropos "*CONF*") ? 02:30:25 now that I've tried to refer to it the symbol does exist 02:30:28 still isn't bound to anything 02:30:56 hm 02:30:57 actually 02:30:59 this is interesting. 02:31:12 fe[nl]ix: apropros finds symbols that I haven't yet flailed at. 02:31:18 so *something* knows about them 02:31:26 however: 02:31:27 CL> (apropos "message->string") 02:31:27 IRCL:MESSAGE->STRING 02:31:34 CL> (ircl:message->string) 02:31:44 ; undefined function: IRCL:MESSAGE->STRING 02:31:54 did you load your fasls? 02:32:18 did I do what now? 02:32:27 all I've done is load the ASDF system 02:32:33 how? 02:32:39 via SLIME 02:32:44 how? 02:32:45 , load RET thune RET 02:32:50 ok 02:33:27 for reference, loading the system *does* seem to work with a straight sbcl. 02:33:33 did it compile without any warnings and errors? 02:33:51 when I loaded the system? yeah, unless I missed something 02:33:55 *Ralith* reruns the load 02:34:13 "Compilation finished. (No warnings)" 02:34:25 and with the fasls killed 02:35:01 crix why cant i stop staring at her http://zip.4chan.org/a/src/1253928008660.jpg 02:35:22 stassats`: okay, I just got a bunch of undefined-functions for ircl 02:35:35 which is another thing I wrote the defsystem for and thus probably has the same mistakes 02:35:36 whoops, wrong channel :) 02:36:08 there's much CP on 4ch lately 02:36:30 no, just brown boxes now 02:36:39 no off-topic please 02:37:09 okay, okay 02:37:28 okay, stassats`, it appears to load correctly when there are no fasls 02:38:04 it should load correctly with fasls too 02:38:16 emmy [n=em@cpe-98-14-154-71.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:38:19 unless you misplayed with EVAL-WHEN 02:38:28 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A6E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:38:35 aaaaand the problem dissapeared. 02:38:44 after I deleted the fasls for a third time. 02:38:50 must have missed a few the first two tries O.o 02:38:55 so no one used rucksack? 02:38:55 well, thanks for rubberducking. 02:39:39 weirdo: drewc uses it 02:41:31 yeah, i used it for the user database in ucliki... rucksack is teh r0x0rs 02:41:41 moocow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 02:42:09 Wow, the "dsl-in-lisp" video was pretty impressive 02:42:13 bill` [n=wat@iamtheblackwizards.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:25 My first time to see a lisp screencast like that 02:42:33 It was like lisp was eating itself :P 02:42:34 drewc, no crashes, no problems, production ready, eh? 02:44:41 -!- jeti` [n=jeti@p548EF4EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 02:44:44 weirdo: i haven't had issues. 02:44:57 great to hear that 02:49:10 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@75.42.224.116] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:49:14 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:50:07 felideon [n=felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:56 circular deps aren't legal, right? 02:55:31 -!- coyoes [n=theCoyo@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:56:11 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:04 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:58:13 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 03:00:13 ok i've decided to do some dedicate lisp hosting 03:00:22 have no idea how to go about it 03:00:53 more like come play in my limited 4OGB hard drive at home 03:01:04 but still i want to try it 03:02:08 lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-195-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:46 seangrove: url? 03:04:38 -!- jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:04:53 jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:05:02 moocow: http://lispm.dyndns.org/mov/dsl-in-lisp.mov 03:05:06 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-2-218.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:05:07 danke 03:05:19 rares, you can run lisp on every webhost that allows CGI scripting 03:05:22 and possibly shell access 03:07:29 i mean lisp application servert 03:07:32 ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 03:07:36 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-22-151.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:07:55 weirdo: hutchentoot? 03:08:15 moocow, fastcgi or a poor imitation (i.e. mod_lisp) 03:08:25 neat 03:08:55 -!- seangrove [n=user@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:07 what's the compass thing on the bottom right of that screen? 03:09:26 that looks like a weather applet 03:09:52 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:10:08 wow, you guys have never seen a mac? 03:10:26 whats the point when linux is so much nicer? 03:10:32 *moocow* puts on asbestos pants 03:10:34 flame on 03:11:05 BrianRice: I'm *using* a Mac and I've never seen that 03:12:22 oh, I mis-interpreted which glyph you guys were referring to 03:12:34 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:12:40 :) 03:17:32 -!- lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-213-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:17:58 crap, it's hard to do any lisping with a warm, vibrating cat on my lap 03:18:09 haha 03:18:13 your cat is about to blow up 03:18:16 does it have a time? 03:18:21 if so, cut the red one 03:18:29 NO CUT THE BLUE 03:18:37 ehe :) 03:18:40 BrianRice: been using OS X for 2+ years and I had no idea :) 03:18:56 weirdo: what kind of cat? 03:19:04 hopefully a live one 03:19:13 hehehe sorry couldn't help my self 03:19:19 Adlai, a moggy 03:20:05 nite all 03:20:48 *Adlai* purrs at the cat 03:21:15 the compass thing is safari 03:21:15 is that SBCL's kitten of death? 03:22:17 navigator, explorer, konqueror, safari, what's next? columbus (discovers leif ericsonia edition) 03:23:23 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:24:11 felideon, he's called The Beloved Family Cat, also His Holy Kittyness 03:25:17 rares, patashnik 03:29:11 -!- moocow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:38:39 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 03:39:26 schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has joined #lisp 03:40:19 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:40:31 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 03:43:14 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:17 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6DD9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 03:43:40 bgs101 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 03:44:12 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:44:22 -!- bgs101 is now known as bgs100 03:47:58 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:49:27 Levenson1 [n=Levenson@92.46.80.125] has joined #lisp 03:51:47 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:52:42 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 04:00:28 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-242-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:33 cmsimon [n=cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 04:06:34 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.85.79] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:14:49 sh10151 [n=sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:15:27 -!- lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-195-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:15:34 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has quit [] 04:16:34 -!- ansur [n=ansur@c-98-220-107-98.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:17:41 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 04:20:59 -!- younder [n=jthing@84.202.13.251] has left #lisp 04:22:20 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.168.65] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:25:59 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:27:54 -!- felideon [n=felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:30:20 S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has joined #lisp 04:30:53 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:34:58 Good morning. 04:35:28 good morning, beach 04:39:19 Is there a more concise way to do (format nil "~a" foo)? 04:39:58 (princ-to-string foo)? 04:40:46 clhs princ-to-string 04:40:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_to_.htm 04:41:49 ralith: (defun a (foo) (format nil "~a" foo)) ;) 04:41:49 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-220-175.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:42:08 :P 04:42:12 beach: that sounds right, thanks 04:43:15 Actually, the two solution have exactly the same number of characters. 04:44:50 beach: well, princ-to-string is more *conceptually* concise, which is what I was really going for. 04:45:09 i.e. my intent is less ambiguous to a later code reviewer 04:49:30 schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has joined #lisp 04:51:21 crouton [i=crouton@bas1-toronto10-1279555613.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:51:58 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:41 beach: hey, it turns out I actually wanted that except with print instead of princ. Does such a thing exist? 04:53:16 Ralith: (defun a (foo) (format nil "~A" foo)) 04:53:17 ;) 04:53:45 sykopomp: unsurprisingly, that does exactly the same thing as ~a. 04:54:08 hey guys.. what do asterisks do in lisp? specifically, what's going on in this line: (setf *blah* foo) ? 04:54:15 crouton: nothing at all! 04:54:25 lisp is very liberal with what you can name variables. 04:54:26 orly? 04:54:35 you can use characters like !, =, and > too 04:54:41 that's insane 04:54:44 ! 04:54:45 *foo* is just a naming convention 04:54:47 people are adding little pieces of flair to their variable names 04:55:02 + * - and so on are all functions after all. 04:55:07 eihrul: not really 04:55:17 *foo* means "foo is a global special variable" 04:55:21 or something like that anyway 04:55:31 while, say, =foo= means "foo is a constant" 04:55:33 *whoosh* 04:55:43 +foo+ 04:55:46 right, so it is flair to variable names 04:55:50 :P 04:55:58 but that's only to the code writer and reader right? to the compiler it's all the same? 04:56:03 yep 04:56:04 correct 04:56:07 i see 04:56:18 eihrul: better than CamelCase 04:56:19 some lisps actually give warnings if your naming scheme doesn't match common convention 04:56:20 ;) 04:56:20 to the compiler it's the call to defvar that says "this is a global special variable" 04:56:36 or defconstant that says "this is a constant" or ... 04:56:56 sykopomp: well, wrong comparison, CamelCase you must compare to hyphen-this-or-that 04:57:07 i see 04:57:19 sykopomp: whereas here the corresponding evil is hungarian notation 04:57:24 oh god that's evil 04:57:32 eihrul: no, because CamelCase is used for contextual information on variables 04:57:40 no, that's hungarian notation :) 04:57:49 Capital for Classes lowerUpper for methods 04:57:59 that's not necessarily hungarian. 04:58:32 hungarian notation slaps type info into its vars/names. 04:58:37 so mMyMethod 04:58:48 it is far more insidious than that 04:59:07 simplification 04:59:13 sykopomp: thisIsStillCamelCase 04:59:33 all I'm saying is that CamelCase is indeed used for the same sort of thing as *foo* is. 04:59:38 no 04:59:44 conditional first-letter capitalization is :P 04:59:44 *This-Is-A-Variable* 04:59:45 yes. It is. 04:59:54 Class variable_name methodName 05:00:05 camelcase is just used because hyphens are unavailable ^^ 05:00:11 and underscores are, uh, out of style? 05:00:11 not only, no. 05:00:13 i have no problems with camel case, but i draw the line at hungarian 05:00:16 you're missing the point. 05:00:31 sykopomp: you're still forgetting that thisIsStillCamelCase >.< 05:00:57 Ralith: I'm saying that capitalization is used in the same cases where lisp uses "pieces of flair" 05:01:04 indeed. 05:01:07 and that it's shit to use capitalization for it. 05:01:10 *v4r!4|3L3_|\|aM3* 05:01:11 yeah 05:01:16 because remembering what shit is capitalized is... well, it's shit. 05:01:20 I'm just clarifying that that's not really an attribute of camelcase per se 05:01:26 well 05:01:35 I've used camelCase both voluntarily and because I had to many times 05:01:36 Phoodus: the |s are treated specially :P 05:01:38 and it's not really obstructive 05:01:41 and *foo* vs foo is much more obvious than Foo vs foo 05:01:45 very true. 05:02:15 as far as the smalltalk propensity for capitalizing class names, well, they do it because they wanted to emphasize that classes were nouny things, like people or places or whatever 05:02:19 Phoodus: '|afoeunsatoheluga o[8eug '()$P"@ #$!@#$!@#$ (")P| 05:02:22 in context, it works just fine 05:02:38 eihrul: bloody hideous. 05:02:40 spaces in symbol names 05:02:40 hehe 05:02:50 Ralith: not a problem. It's between || 05:03:07 sykopomp: I know 05:03:10 but it's amusing ^^ 05:03:14 -!- sh10151 [n=sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:03:23 so anyway 05:03:26 wow, github really died 05:03:31 :| 05:03:34 that's bad 05:03:37 that's really annoying. 05:03:40 write all your programs like this: (eval (read-from-string (symbol-name '|(progn (defun hi () (princ "hello, world")) (hi))|))) 05:04:01 but yeah, still wondering if there's anything like print-to-string 05:04:11 or if I really need to make a string stream and fake it 05:04:11 sykopomp: what is hideous is CFoo or mBar or lpdwKillMeNow 05:04:14 (format nil ...) 05:04:19 eihrul: oh god kill it. 05:04:20 returns a string 05:04:23 eihrul: oh god 05:04:33 Phoodus: you're missing context 05:04:38 Phoodus: I mean print as in PRINT. 05:04:55 oh, you mean capturing standard output into a string? 05:05:03 and then MS just went and added intellisense and totally obsoleted the point of hungarian anyway 05:05:03 we've done that, though I wasn't the one who coded it 05:05:29 Phoodus: ...no 05:05:30 O.o 05:05:33 I mean print as in PRINT. 05:05:45 but to a string instead of stdout. 05:06:00 I can fairly easily just redirect print's output, as iirc it takes an optional stream argument 05:06:09 but that's several more lines of blarg than I'd like 05:06:19 so make a macro? 05:06:26 christ. Just write the stupid function. 05:06:31 ...no, I'd write a function 05:06:38 this is such a waste of time. 05:06:39 but only if I'm sure there's no standard function to do the same 05:06:47 sykopomp: so bugger off and screw with sheeple :P 05:06:54 you asked about this half an hour ago. 05:07:09 you've spent half an hour wasting time because writing a function around format nil seems like too much trouble? :P 05:07:09 and have been doing about four other things in parallel. 05:07:16 geez 05:07:18 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:07:19 :P 05:07:21 what is it with you and stupid assumptions 05:07:46 I've spent half an hour checking back here regularly in the hopes of finding an answer to a question asked in the hopes of learning more about the standard funcs. 05:07:50 ;) 05:07:52 <3 05:08:08 if I just wanted to Get It Working Now I'd have called print and been done with it 05:08:20 clhs print-to-string 05:08:20 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for print-to-string. 05:08:37 clhs princ-to-string 05:08:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_to_.htm 05:08:42 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:43 Adlai: not what I want. 05:09:03 Adlai: again, print as in PRINT. 05:09:10 as in REPL. 05:09:18 as in don't unquote strings and etc 05:09:26 as in not ~A? 05:09:31 redblue [i=star@ppp043.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:09:34 correct 05:09:35 you asked about (format t "~A" obj) 05:09:40 then I corrected myself 05:09:43 as in precede with newline and follow with space? 05:09:50 Phoodus: no -_- 05:09:57 22:10:29 < Ralith> as in don't unquote strings and etc 05:10:03 you kept referring to print, and that's what print does 05:10:14 Phoodus: call (print "foo") and watch the magic. 05:10:43 (wots (s) (print x s)) 05:11:04 "print is just like prin1 except that the printed representation of object is preceded by a newline and followed by a space. " 05:11:25 "prin1 produces output suitable for input to read. It binds *print-escape* to true. " 05:11:35 prin1-to-string :D 05:11:39 thanks for being indirectly helpful Phoodus 05:11:51 have you tried princ-to-string with *print-escape* bound to t? 05:12:26 I don't know what you're searching for, since you defer to things that have features you dont' care about, and the docs regarding this seem to be complete on just 1 clhs page 05:12:39 Ralith: print1-to-string exists 05:12:47 btw, you probably shouldn't rely on prin1-to-string anyways 05:13:06 it's implementation-dependant how its output looks 05:13:18 beach: yes, that's why I :D'd about it 05:13:24 Adlai: In what way? 05:13:29 Ralith: OK 05:13:40 Adlai: if he wants lisp re-readability, then that shouldn't matter, if it's the same lisp that will be reading it 05:13:43 beach: the details of how the object ID is printed 05:14:00 Adlai: For unreadable objects you mean? 05:14:04 yeah 05:14:28 well, what does Ralith really want? 05:14:34 (print "foo") 05:14:42 CCL puts a @, SBCL puts the ID in {brackets}, I think ACL just puts #x4565abc 05:14:43 "(print "foo") is cool!" isn't really a requirement spec ;) 05:15:27 Adlai: CCL is #x14F74EFE here 05:15:27 Adlai: I don't care how it handles unreadable objects 05:15:34 Ralith: ok 05:15:34 and yeah Phoodus mostly has it right here 05:15:34 and every option of doing things has its own quirks, tradeoffs, and config 05:15:54 I have no clue what you're lookin gfor 05:16:15 what I'm actually doing here is adding an eval command to my IRC bot (with restrictive permissions, of course) 05:16:29 and trying to get a natural representation of the return value to send back over IRC. 05:17:04 yeah, we did a remote repl, but captured all standard output for when the string was executed 05:17:16 so the return value was just printed, too 05:17:22 shouldn't you be using format there anyways? 05:17:39 s/printed/(format t...)'d/ 05:17:52 something like (format nil "~S => ~S" input-form (eval input-form)) 05:18:45 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@host-241-76.pubnet.pdx.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:19:21 Ralith_ [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has joined #lisp 05:21:48 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has quit [] 05:26:05 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:28:46 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:29:03 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 05:30:22 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-150-81.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:41 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:33:50 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:34:23 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 05:34:35 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 05:35:18 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-231-179.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:40:01 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:02 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-124.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 05:41:36 benbos67 [n=ben@CPE-124-177-162-112.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:44:01 -!- benbos67 [n=ben@CPE-124-177-162-112.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 05:46:25 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:55:26 so guys 05:55:40 is there a way to catch an error, do some stuff, then re-raise it without clobbering the original backtrace? 05:56:07 clhs handler-bind 05:56:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_handle.htm 05:56:09 Quick Q: So how do CCL folks feel about it who use it on non-Mac platforms??? 05:56:09 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56:26 *Adlai* likes CCL 05:56:36 What platform? 05:56:38 Adlai: ffs. 05:56:53 {uname -a} [Linux adlai-t400 2.6.30-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Sep 9 14:16:44 CEST 2009 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8600 @ 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux] 05:57:02 schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has joined #lisp 05:57:03 Adlai: "then re-raise it without clobbering the original backtrace?" 05:57:10 Ralith: yes 05:57:23 oh wait 05:57:27 no, nevermind. 05:57:30 Adlai: so how do I do that bit? 05:57:44 handlers have to make a nonlocal-exit, or else the condition system continues searching up the stack 05:57:50 Cool - I'm staring down the barrel of a Windoze laptop. Any general vibe on the Windows "support" interpreted broadly 05:57:52 oh, perfect 05:57:55 thus, make a handler that doesn't make a nonlocal exit 05:57:58 ie, returns normally 05:57:58 yep 05:58:00 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 05:58:00 ty 05:58:04 of course, the return value is ignored 05:58:11 np 05:58:11 of course 05:58:20 <_3b> ccl is probably one o fthe better choices for windows 05:58:28 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest77878 05:58:31 Summermute: it has native threads on windows 05:58:32 <_3b> (unless you have money to spend) 05:58:51 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 05:58:54 -!- Guest77878 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 05:58:55 That's good to hear - Exactly, SBCL doesn't have threads and a flaky TCP/IP IIRC 05:59:10 <_3b> well, still on the list in that case, just more other options too :) 05:59:11 Adlai: uh, that didn't raise an error at all. 05:59:16 Harlequin to way to right for my blook right now 05:59:24 "too rich for" 05:59:27 Ralith: hmmm? 05:59:39 Adlai: it did what I thought handler-bind did, which is return successfully. 05:59:39 make sure you use handler-bind, not handler-case 05:59:43 ..oh 05:59:44 right 05:59:47 *Ralith* facepalms 05:59:49 I knew that! 06:00:46 Just got CCL/SLIME setup, so in I dive - thanks for the advice 06:01:24 Adlai: no, that still clobbers the backtrace 06:01:34 now it just traces to CALL-HANDLERS 06:01:59 Ralith: paste the code? 06:03:20 Adlai: http://github.com/Ralith/Thune/blob/master/thune.lisp 06:03:45 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has quit [] 06:04:56 Ralith: let's have some code in that spaghetti :P 06:05:55 keep in mind that you can't have handlers at the same level invoke eachother 06:06:12 thus an error won't disable reconnection 06:06:37 o 06:06:38 'kay 06:06:45 it wouldn't actually do anything anyway 06:07:01 you're welcome to recode it cleaner 06:07:07 also, why do you call (continue)? 06:07:25 because I'd rather it didn't keep proceeding up the stack? 06:07:46 you need to establish a restart 06:08:01 (with-simple-restart (continue "Continue") (signal 'disable-reconnect)) 06:08:17 -!- jlf` [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:08:36 Adlai: odd how it's been working perfectly fine. 06:08:58 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:53 Adlai: are you certain that signal doesn't implicitly define a continue restart? Because it certainly behaves errorlessly as if that's the case. 06:10:09 signal doesn't enter the debugger 06:10:18 it just returns nil if there's no nonlocal jump 06:10:30 oh, so I don't even need to have the continue or the restart? 06:10:33 that's handy 06:10:41 no, although that'll hit all handlers above your main function too 06:11:02 which isn't necessarily a problem 06:11:06 eh, it's leaky 06:11:14 so how do I halt propogation without work? 06:11:31 you'd need a restart :\ 06:11:49 you sure there's nothing implicitly defined at all? 06:11:59 handlers need a nonlocal transfer... 06:12:06 yes 06:12:14 handler-case implicitly does that, but to the level of the handlers, not the signal 06:12:14 and you're sure signal doesn't implicitly define any restarts at all? 06:12:23 why would it? 06:12:25 clhs signal 06:12:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_signal.htm 06:12:34 to make it trivial to halt propogation 06:12:39 :P 06:12:56 bloat... 06:13:17 if you want to halt propagation, you'll need to do some work 06:13:28 ...is not something CL seemed to be concerned with in its time. 06:13:35 \o/ 06:13:53 which is why we have the condition system in the first place of course :) 06:13:53 also, invoke-debugger is probably just what I needed for that error catching :D 06:14:01 ^^ 06:14:10 by the way, is the handler-bind on line 35 doing anything? 06:14:15 *case 06:14:16 I think. 06:14:22 I don't see any handlers :) 06:14:29 Adlai: er, yeah, that's a leftover scrap from a refactor 06:14:34 good catch 06:14:44 (decf indentation) ^^ 06:15:35 well crap 06:15:42 that STILL clobbers the backtrace 06:16:27 why do you need to signal disable-reconnect? 06:16:55 I think you could just (setf reconnect nil) 06:17:05 Adlai: I don't need to signal disable-reconnect. 06:17:11 that's not relevant to *any* of my problems either :P 06:17:13 anyways, I'm not certain why your backtrace is being clobbered... :\ 06:17:23 are you in slime? 06:17:40 slime sometimes hides some of the backtraces 06:17:56 you need to scroll to the bottom and then it'll pop up more 06:18:05 I know 06:18:15 it's entirely clobbered. 06:18:36 the backtrace becomes to where the handler was called or where the debugger was invoked instead of to where the error was signaled. 06:19:25 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-103.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:20:16 no clue, then... I have very similarly structured code working perfectly 06:20:31 oh? 06:20:34 what for? 06:20:40 sheeple 06:20:45 this works fine, it just makes the debugger slightly less useful. 06:21:57 hmmm 06:22:19 where by 'slightly' I mean 'a lot' 06:22:31 pretty much the only information it retains is the princ of the error itself 06:22:42 hmmm 06:22:53 (you still have the condition object which you can slime-inspect) 06:23:03 yeah 06:23:08 but is there anything useful there? 06:23:26 much more than in the princ, that is 06:23:46 that depends on the condition 06:23:48 often, there isn't 06:24:02 backtraces are really crucial :\ 06:26:16 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:26:58 yeah 06:26:59 hello 06:27:09 however 06:27:23 it's also really annoying to have the bot ghost hanging around all the time while you're hacking 06:27:35 Ralith: the example from sheeple is line 243 of http://github.com/adlai/sheeple/blob/devel/src/sheeple.lisp 06:28:08 -!- Levenson1 [n=Levenson@92.46.80.125] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:28:14 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:29:46 Adlai: and that always traces back to the place that originally raised the error? 06:30:19 not just to STD-ADD-PARENT? 06:31:13 well, let me check 06:32:25 incidentally 06:32:28 can lambdas have docstrings? 06:32:35 no 06:32:39 clhs documentation 06:32:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_docume.htm 06:32:51 there's a full list of supported documentation types in there 06:33:01 Abandon all hope, ye who enter here! 06:35:15 Adlai pasted "Sheeple backtrace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87761 06:35:30 Ralith: basically, yes -- I get the stack frames 06:36:12 :/ 06:36:27 mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-237.iasi.cablelink.ro] has joined #lisp 06:36:46 which implementation are you on? 06:36:48 schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has joined #lisp 06:37:25 SBCL 06:37:34 hmm, I get backtrace on SBCL too 06:38:22 incidentally 06:38:31 is there any way to keep prin1-to-string from inserting newlines? 06:38:40 no 06:39:03 aside from deleting them after-the-fact 06:39:35 no pretty-printer globals to tweak? 06:39:36 damn. 06:39:51 oh, there probably are, but nothing kills a ~% 06:39:56 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176152700.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:40:19 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:51:37 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:55:26 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:57:01 hm 06:57:16 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 06:57:20 given a very specific type specifier 06:57:32 e.g. (simple-array character (3)) 06:57:37 how would I get a generalized version 06:57:42 e.g. string? 06:57:45 or similar 06:58:06 Well, you could use subtypep with a tree of your favourite types ... 06:58:53 clhs search 06:58:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_search.htm 06:59:05 Zhivago: that's it? damn, thought it'd be like that. 07:00:07 clhs substitute 07:00:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sbs_s.htm 07:00:36 Well, you could try going backward along the superclass list and looking at the corresponding types. 07:00:48 sounds like an interesting possibility 07:09:27 -!- coyo is now known as coyo[asleep] 07:10:13 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:13:15 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:13:22 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 07:15:51 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 07:16:35 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 07:16:42 -!- Jafet1 is now known as jafet 07:19:15 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has quit [] 07:20:15 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:21:16 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:27:38 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-237.iasi.cablelink.ro] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:31:51 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.80.125] has joined #lisp 07:33:45 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:56 schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has joined #lisp 07:46:05 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0949.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:49:12 -!- jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:49:22 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 07:53:09 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-130-54.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 07:54:17 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.163.128.212] has joined #lisp 07:54:20 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-40.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:21 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has left #lisp 08:14:37 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:14:43 todavies [n=quassel@CPE-121-219-227-212.lnse1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:15:20 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:16:48 I'm struggling getting my lisp(sbcl) to give me what i expect back from a call to sb-mop:slot-definition-readers. it seems to universally return nil regardless of the existance of reader or writer functions... anyone know what i'm doing wrong? 08:18:16 vsync [n=vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 08:19:18 <_3b> seems to work here, are you passing it a slot-definition? 08:19:35 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229244101.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:20:09 todavies: also, from what I'm reading, it seems to only work on direct-slots 08:20:11 Cut-R [n=X6T@cable-85.28.78.5.coditel.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:32 -!- Cut-R changed the topic of #lisp to: FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:20:47 -!- _3b changed the topic of #lisp to: . 08:20:48 ... 08:20:49 -!- sykopomp changed the topic of #lisp to: someone please reset topic 08:21:11 -!- Cut-R changed the topic of #lisp to: FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:21:16 Cut-R: go away 08:21:18 -!- sykopomp changed the topic of #lisp to: . 08:21:36 -!- Cut-R changed the topic of #lisp to: FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:22:09 -!- _3b changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ABCL 0.16.0, SBCL 1.0.31, Osicat 0.6.0, CFFI 0.10.5, trivial-features 0.5, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, yason-0.1, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 08:22:16 _3b: thanks 08:22:35 -!- cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:22:41 anybody with ops feel like banning Cut-R 08:22:42 ? 08:22:48 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:05 <_3b> probably easier to just change topic permissions for a while 08:23:32 Zhivago drewc antifuchs Xach Krystof Xof slyrus_ ping 08:23:48 -!- Cut-R changed the topic of #lisp to: FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:23:52 -!- _3b changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ABCL 0.16.0, SBCL 1.0.31, Osicat 0.6.0, CFFI 0.10.5, trivial-features 0.5, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, yason-0.1, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 08:23:58 yeah, i just sorta stumbled upon that... anyone know how to turn a setf function name into the actual function? 08:24:00 -!- Cut-R changed the topic of #lisp to: FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:24:04 zerojay [n=jay@modemcable180.240-23-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 08:24:12 *_3b* wonders if it would be less spammy to just leave it until an op wakes up :/ 08:24:19 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 08:24:21 /topic lol pedos 08:24:36 -!- Krystof changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ABCL 0.16.0, SBCL 1.0.31, Osicat 0.6.0, CFFI 0.10.5, trivial-features 0.5, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, yason-0.1, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 08:24:42 Krystof: <3 08:24:46 -!- Krystof has set mode +t 08:24:59 have I done it right? I can never remember 08:25:08 Krystof: you forgot the +b 08:25:24 heh 08:25:30 -!- zerojay [n=jay@modemcable180.240-23-96.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 08:25:33 a ban would do a lot of good ad this point :) 08:25:41 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 08:25:54 a ban would mean I have to work out who it is safe to unban, because the channel ban list is full 08:26:03 hah 08:26:13 instead, if someone could report this to freenode staff, that would be good 08:26:20 they'll k-line the user 08:26:31 Krystof: I did, they just said to contact ops. 08:26:37 you may have to report it yourself (as an operator) 08:26:46 Since bans are cheap random selection is reasonable. 08:27:16 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:27:17 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!!! 08:27:19 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:27:22 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!!! 08:27:24 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:27:27 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!!! 08:27:27 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has been kicked from #lisp 08:27:28 Cut-R [n=X6T@cable-85.28.78.5.coditel.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:29 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:27:32 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!!! 08:27:33 damnit 08:27:34 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:27:36 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!!! 08:27:36 Nice script 08:27:38 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:27:41 *Adlai* laughes, a bit 08:27:41 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!!! 08:27:44 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:27:44 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!*@noorus.aklubi.ee 08:27:46 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!!! 08:27:48 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!!! 08:27:50 FREENODE BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS D'ENFANTS ABUSEURS D'INNOCENTS FILS DE PUTES D'ENCULÉS !!! 08:27:52 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*@cable-85.28.78.5.coditel.net 08:27:52 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has been kicked from #lisp 08:28:10 some other channel is getting it now, though 08:28:14 well, quite 08:28:17 you can mute someone as an op right? 08:28:20 look at /whois cut-r 08:28:24 that's why I thought reporting it to staff was sensible 08:28:33 at least it's Ruby! 08:30:04 anyone know how to turn a setf function name (setf foobar) into something funcallable? 08:30:20 <_3b> clhs fdefinition 08:30:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fdefin.htm 08:31:28 <_3b> clhs function 08:31:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_fn.htm 08:31:30 ty muchly, just what i needed 08:32:00 function breaks unfortunately when you don't have the name at compile time 08:33:02 <_3b> ah, good point 08:33:38 but fdefinition does exactly what i want 08:34:52 [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.94.87.132] has joined #lisp 08:35:11 -!- vsync [n=vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:37:50 -!- todavies [n=quassel@CPE-121-219-227-212.lnse1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit ["No Ping reply in 90 seconds."] 08:38:05 todavies [n=quassel@CPE-121-219-227-212.lnse1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:39:12 does anyone here have a particularly efficient implementation of a fixed-size queue? 08:40:39 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has quit [] 08:46:38 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-40.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:47:03 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 08:48:11 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 08:53:56 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:54:28 -!- [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.94.87.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:54:39 -!- r00tzlevel is now known as rootzlevel 08:56:24 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:56:32 cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has joined #lisp 08:57:38 *p_l* is angry at himself for not using a full text search engine in the beginning of his app 08:58:28 -!- leadnose [i=leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has left #lisp 08:58:41 jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-17-168.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:00:28 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-1-251.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:15 Hi all, I'm still a noob at CL. If I'd like to know which methods are applicable to a class, that is, specialized to that class. Here's what I'd like to do: I'd like to see which methods are applicable to function objects, because I'm looking for a way to tell how many arguments a function takes. 09:03:12 er... I said that in a round-about way, sorry :P 09:03:24 jtza8: unfortunately introspection isn't fully standardized, iirc, but you can read through SLIME/swank sources for autodoc and similar features 09:03:46 since function isn't based on standard-class 09:04:01 Ok, thanks. 09:05:12 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:06:03 cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #lisp 09:07:38 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:08:49 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 09:11:22 schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has joined #lisp 09:14:12 anyone know if cltl3 is going to cover introspection? 09:14:23 p_l: was it you who had advice on FTS engines for me a while back? 09:14:50 Ralith: I'm not sure - I only had contact with two, but I might have supported the idea of using one. 09:15:55 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-9-57.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:15:55 -!- KingNatoG5_ is now known as KingNatoG5 09:16:02 I'm about to try out montezuma 09:16:20 *p_l* plays around with ferret 09:16:43 ? 09:18:10 Ralith: my app is in Ruby 09:18:39 o 09:25:18 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:26 quasimodo [n=quassel@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:54 why do some disassemblies include lots of no-ops? 09:26:36 Alignment. 09:26:50 sykopomp: hullo 09:27:06 They don't actually include no-ops either, they simply disassemble the ones already there 09:28:28 c|mell [n=cmell@211.189.255.253] has joined #lisp 09:28:54 Jafet: alignment? I'm not sure I understand 09:31:48 I assume we're talking about assembly code here 09:31:54 Blaay [i=Blay@89.142.247.202] has joined #lisp 09:32:03 Adlai: alignment of operations so they can be executed quicker 09:32:14 Some operations on most cpus are more efficient if they occur on 4/8 byte boundaries, particularly targets for jumps 09:32:21 Adlai: I only know it vaguely 09:32:23 Jafet: yes, the output of (disassemble 'my-wickedly-optimized-function) 09:32:32 todavies: ok, thanks 09:33:57 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:34:01 most assembly languages include an 'align' pseudo op that inserts enough noops to align the next instruction 09:34:02 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:55 Xach: sorry for the ping, we had a bit of a problem earlier and I highlighted the ops :) 09:35:25 -!- quasimodo [n=quassel@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit ["http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."] 09:37:03 todavies: interesting. This makes sense :) 09:37:57 -!- todavies [n=quassel@CPE-121-219-227-212.lnse1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:38:07 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 09:40:11 object extension could solve many problems regarding flexible applications. It allows for people to continue on the work of others. Apparently, that happens more often than not 09:42:32 gonzojive [n=red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 09:44:15 anyone have a handy macro for binding the keywords passed to a function that were allowed only because of an &allow-other-keys in the lambda list? 09:44:33 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:45:34 something like (defun foo (&key bar &allow-other-keys extras) extras) where (foo :bar 3 :funkey 2) would return '(:funkey 2) 09:46:36 gonzojive: that is an interesting idea 09:46:47 gonzojive: what about if the function is *called* with :allow-other-keys? 09:48:03 gonzojive: my initial impression is that you'd have to have a macro for defun, or some cross-platform slime-ish thing that can recover the lambda list. 09:49:47 Xach: I forgot about calling functions with :allow-other-keys. I suppose this macro could be designed to handle this case as well 09:50:41 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:51:54 Xach: by having a macro for defun do you mean a replacement like (defmacro gonzodefun ...)? 09:54:01 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has joined #lisp 09:54:22 Em.. is there a way to ignore excessive variables in an ordinary lambda list? 09:54:46 Adlai: certain cpus can only do memory transfers or operations on certain wordsize and certain address alignment, thus any operation that falls outside it require additional work (or even causes error in CPU) 09:54:59 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 09:55:12 p_l: thanks 09:55:29 jtza: &rest? 09:56:11 gonzojive: that would achieve it. If you feel adventurous, you could even shadow defun ;) 09:56:57 Adlai: for example, AMD64 might have byte-sized access etc., but the memory transfers on new Opterons are always 64bit sized, or on older dual-channel ones 128bit 09:59:35 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:59:46 Zhivago: Well, if I use &rest, then I should get a warning if I never use the variable following it. 10:00:04 (declare (ignore x)) 10:00:24 Ah... thanks :) 10:01:25 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 10:03:57 gonzojive pasted "working with keyword argument plists" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87763 10:05:03 gonzojive: which service are you working with? 10:06:00 gonzojive: i took a different approach to that with ZS3 10:06:43 what's an elegant way of removing keys and values from a plist? alists are nice because you can use all the sequence functions with :key #'car, but i find plists to be unwieldy except when using destructuring-bind 10:07:18 Xach: it's for what is now called Amazon Advertising API, used to be ECS 10:07:26 Xach: what do you suggest? 10:08:06 gonzojive: i'm not sure, i think i would have to look at the original amazon docs and think a bit. 10:12:42 whenever i think i have too much free time, i think about writing a framework to make it easy to support any amazon web service API, and then supporting them all 10:12:52 then the kids wake up, and they're hungry... 10:13:16 gonzojive: anyway, i think approaching it by introspecting the arglist is going to be harder than almost any other solution 10:16:21 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:16:23 Xach: I don't do much of it at the moment. i'll scrap the introspection in the simple-parameters function 10:17:05 Xach: the library is pretty far along right now.. i think the git address is http://common-lisp.net/project/suave/git/amazon-ecs/.git 10:18:06 yeah, there are several projects for S3, SQS, SimpleDB, etc. 10:18:13 I would like to make one for all services. 10:19:31 cool, the ZS3 lib is great 10:19:40 CyberBlue [n=yong@111.167.0.238] has joined #lisp 10:21:52 thanks 10:22:25 that should be completed after my youngest goes to college, in 2028 10:22:29 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:23:06 holycow [n=new@64.151.208.1] has joined #lisp 10:24:13 at least since you're writing in lisp you can code a few times faster than in archaic languages 10:24:28 heh 10:25:30 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:25:33 yeah, imagine writing it in Cobol! 10:26:03 tic: somehow I'm more scared of writing it in Java? 10:26:05 ;-) 10:26:49 Java's OK 10:27:19 java's great! it already has libraries for everything. you don't ever have to write new libraries. 10:27:45 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.163.128.212] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:27:50 i wonder if there are academic papers about the assumed social factors taken into account when they were designing java 10:28:21 Xach: I don't see why that is that great... most of the specs are silly, and the integration is -in many cases- impossible due to the java limitations 10:28:37 being: single inheritance, no real lambda functions 10:28:41 and by social, in this context i'm talking about "bad programmers are forced to write legible code and use class hierarchies" etc 10:29:01 I'd perefer to have a bunch of implementations of a standard, than a single vm to run on 10:29:29 milanj [n=milan@212.200.193.86] has joined #lisp 10:29:59 there are several jvm's out there, but i guess that's not the level you were talking about :) 10:30:06 guaqua: there was a talk about java on PBS, I believe. You can certainly find interviews about those that built it, and they do talk about the ideas they had when designing the language 10:31:00 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:31:09 madnificent: yeah. i'll have to look at it closer 10:31:25 guaqua: ah no, I meant the ability to compile to whatever you want. You need to follow the implementation specification, and work from there on. Lisp could use a (possibly very unoptimised) reference implementation for the described functions though. 10:31:35 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:31:45 *madnificent* remembers not being impressed 10:31:47 !skype 10:31:52 er 10:32:02 there was supposed to be a C-t in front of that >_> 10:32:26 stumpwm \o/ 10:33:47 is elephant used fairly widely among this crowd? the persistent object database/protocol 10:34:35 I've heard about it, but haven't gotten it to work myself. 10:35:37 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@111.167.0.238] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:37:19 I haven't gotten cl-sql to work so I just stick with elephant 10:38:55 gonzojive: there's also bknr.datastore and manardb (possible good to watch out for the latter, if you don't need an sql connection) 10:40:38 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.163.101.134] has joined #lisp 10:41:54 and also cl-perec 10:42:30 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host185-130-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:42:52 prip [n=_prip@host136-121-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:46:11 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:46:39 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32FB7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:58 madnificent: you're just jealous because lisp programming involves writing new software instead of wiring libraries together or filling in frameworks. 10:48:29 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:50:21 Xach, most lisp programmers seem to spend a good chunk of their time writing new wrappers so they can wire libraries together :) 10:50:23 g'day 10:50:47 *schme* feels glad then that he is not in the set "most lisp programmers" 10:50:49 seems a boring place to be! 10:50:51 c|mell: some actually enjoy writing wrappers, even if they didn't do that lately :D 10:55:30 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp043.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:02:24 as usual, attila lendvai has a great solution to remove much of the drudgery from it :) 11:02:36 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 11:03:26 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:06:12 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:43 -!- cmsimon [n=cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:10:48 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 11:11:15 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-110-136.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:52 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 11:12:40 Xach: not really, I'd be using some lisp-like java-thing then, wouldn't I? 11:13:10 thread locks/mutexes in lisp, what should I search for? 11:13:14 I forgot the symbol names 11:13:55 semaphores ? 11:14:14 are you using SBCL ? bordeaux-threads ? 11:14:33 SBCL 11:14:48 actually, hunchentoot is creating the threads, it might be bordeaux-threads 11:16:37 yup bordeaux, I'll look in the documentation, thanks 11:16:59 salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:18:01 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:18:43 hello salva 11:18:50 hi 11:20:18 i only read, searching inspiration for pages created from web interface 11:20:50 and trying to get a lispy think 11:21:50 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:24:03 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:24:46 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 11:26:03 bah, can't figure this out :-( long question follows 11:26:14 I have a package that defines and exports a "template-read-file" function 11:26:33 this function uses (read) to read a file containing forms, then (compile) to generate a closure 11:26:41 that file contains macros that are defined in that package, but not exported 11:27:11 now, everything works well if I call template-read-file *from that package*, but when I call it from some other package the macros aren't expanded -- they are treated like functions instead 11:27:36 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 11:27:36 [ s/contains macros/uses macros/ ] 11:27:52 any hints...? (assuming I explained well the problem, which I'm not sure about..) 11:28:09 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:30:36 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-17-168.iburst.co.za] has quit ["Rebooting into Windows... sadly."] 11:30:58 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 11:33:07 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 11:34:56 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483ECA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:20 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D777.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:28 wrong package? 11:36:49 and/or your new package should :use the former one (which should export the symbols) 11:36:55 CL packages are a crock 11:37:04 Fare: wait, I prepared a simple test case, let me paste 11:37:59 mishoo pasted "How to make sure the reader/compiler works in a certain package?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87765 11:38:07 pixel5 [n=pixel@copei.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:54 What CL does get right is dividing symbols into author and name. 11:39:01 [ BTW, if there's a simpler way to read all forms from a string/stream than using that ugly loop, I'd love to know about it :-) ] 11:40:01 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:40:11 djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:45 Fare: yes, I know I could easily export the macro, but I would like not to do this if possible... 11:43:50 (:import-from "FOO" "BAR") or FOO::BAR 11:44:22 (defmacro bar (&rest r) `(foo::bar ,@r)) 11:45:05 mishoo: use a functional abstraction: (defun read-many ...) ... (read-many ...) ... 11:46:44 *Fare* releases a few of his packages as git repos on cl.net and updates cliki 11:49:43 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.80.125] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:56:52 yay 11:57:07 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:58:51 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:06:44 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:08:11 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:08 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-gkpzblyzxtfvajcs] has quit [] 12:09:46 serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d066c92.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:49 hello 12:10:50 pr_ [n=pr@p579CAC57.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:26 -!- dalkvist_ [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [Success] 12:11:57 dalkvist [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #lisp 12:12:18 Edward [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-41-33.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:12:37 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:12:48 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 12:13:21 mishoo annotated #87765 "workaround" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87765#1 12:25:29 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 12:26:07 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 12:27:08 -!- hefner_ [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-45-70.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:36:28 monge [n=kk@dslb-084-056-217-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:36 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-137.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:36:39 hefner_ [n=hefner@ppp-58-11-46-31.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:38:40 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D777.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 12:39:45 -!- monge [n=kk@dslb-084-056-217-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 12:45:20 ejs [n=eugen@81-229-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:34 zeroish` [n=zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 12:49:43 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-220-175.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:09 hi somebody using ht-ajax? 12:52:07 Is closer-to-mop supposed to ignore package locks? 12:54:14 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122.57.1.105] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:57:43 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:57:58 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@75.36.204.63] has joined #lisp 13:00:36 male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:47 Dawgmatix [n=dman@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:16 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:54 cmsimon [n=trisquel@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 13:04:33 -!- pr_ is now known as pr 13:06:33 bohanlon_ [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:57 slaven [n=slaven@95.17.0.81] has joined #lisp 13:09:49 -!- ejs [n=eugen@81-229-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:13:12 ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:13:56 if i do something like: (defun blah () (setf *test* 13) (values)), what are () and (values) doing? 13:14:37 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.80.125] has joined #lisp 13:14:50 () is the lambda list, i.e. the parameters to the function. 13:15:06 so there are no parameters here, right? 13:15:08 Right. 13:15:26 okay... and (values) ? 13:15:35 and (values) denotes you don't want any values to be used when the function is called. But it's bad style to do so in 99.9% of all cases. 13:15:51 i.e., (values) would supress even the default NIL.a 13:16:21 is values a keyword in lisp? 13:16:43 Yes. (it is a symbol in the CL package). See http://l1sp.org/cl/values 13:16:57 Where did you find this code? 13:19:54 well, it's part of this genetic programming system that koza has made publicly available.. 13:20:20 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-187-130.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 13:20:21 someone really want BLEH to be used in an imperative style, for whatever reason. 13:20:28 BLAH, even. 13:21:11 oh, no. i just changed the names of the things to shorter stuff because i can't copy and paste from this virtual machine unless i install those vmware tools. 13:21:29 here's the real code: ftp://cs.ucl.ac.uk/genetic/ftp.io.com/code/koza-book-gp-implementation.lisp 13:21:34 still, that is (one of the) point of using (values) 13:21:51 generally considered bad style. 13:21:55 i see 13:22:50 i don't understand where the code execution starts though 13:23:10 these are all function definitions. 13:23:42 yes 13:23:43 ikki [n=ikki@189.247.82.198] has joined #lisp 13:23:50 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:25:34 ah i see it now 13:26:32 it starts at run-genetic-programming-system, which is called by the test function at the bottom 13:26:55 which i guess you call to initialize the system 13:27:05 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:28:33 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:28:48 [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.94.87.132] has joined #lisp 13:29:38 ejs [n=eugen@81-229-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:07 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:08 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@75.36.204.63] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:30:16 -!- nvoorhies_ is now known as nvoorhies 13:30:25 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Success] 13:30:25 -!- bohanlon_ is now known as bohanlon 13:31:52 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 13:33:15 -!- slaven [n=slaven@95.17.0.81] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:34:46 hey tic what's wrong with using (values) to signal that you don't want anything returned? -- it's very common practice 13:35:15 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 13:35:43 if you do (multiple-value-bind (a b c d) (values) ...) then a b c d all have value nil . . . so what's suppressed? 13:39:18 That's because values that you didn't get are implicitly nil by that method. 13:39:21 One could have thought that this would signal an interesting condition, but I guess CL is a pragmatical philosopher. 13:39:26 You might consider multiple-value-list 13:39:28 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:41:48 what's multiple-value-bind? 13:42:09 clhs multiple-value-bind 13:42:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_multip.htm 13:42:24 it's generally a good practice to return the same amount of values from a function 13:43:09 yes, that's true; and sometimes it's useful to signal that a function returns nothing of interest by using (values) 13:43:47 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:44 ...seldom. 13:45:46 tic: I think closer-mop defines its own closer-mop-cl package 13:46:15 tcr, alright. just ignoring the lock worked. trying to load & run the UCW example test server. 13:52:48 ruediger [n=ruediger@93-82-9-176.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:53:32 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:54:08 man i'm thinking of just copying this code, modifying it and using it for my assignment. i've never used lisp and there're almost 1000 symbols in the CL package. does this CL package list of symbols exist in SBCL as well? 13:54:47 or is it just part of lispworks? 13:54:58 every conforming implementation has it 13:55:29 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 13:56:18 ah i see 13:56:39 clhs is just residing on the lispworks's web site 13:58:48 why HyperSpec? is that a lispworks thing? 13:59:16 crouton: kent pitman converted the standard to HTML for his employer. the closest thing to the company that was his employer is now LispWorks. 13:59:17 that's a hypertext version of the ANSI standard 13:59:26 crouton: i think kent pitman came up with the name "hyperspec" 14:00:48 ahh okay. 14:01:48 Franz has their own htmlization that they distribute with their product 14:02:05 and there's dpans also 14:03:46 you can find the franz docs publicly on their site 14:04:02 *c|mell* was forced to use allegro for too long 14:04:37 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.193.86] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:05:03 what do you use now? 14:05:15 ugh, no luck with png-read 14:06:06 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:06:22 stassats: How about using RUN-PROGRAM and ImageMagick? 14:06:44 maybe 14:07:16 i need to extract colors from some places in the image 14:07:59 crouton, sbcl makes much better code, is more correct, and has better support than allegro -- according to my experience :) 14:08:18 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:08:30 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:40 -!- prip [n=_prip@host136-121-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:10:09 -!- pjb [n=t@85-169-63-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:11:10 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:12:31 stassats: really? i never tried png-read, but it looked like it was really nice to me. what happened/ 14:12:54 Xach: doesn't work on some files 14:13:52 stassats: i'm sure the author would love to hear about it. he did extensive testing iirc. 14:14:23 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:14:27 how do i exit from the debugger? 14:14:45 from which debugger? 14:15:10 "The lisp debugger!" 14:15:46 it says 2: Exit debugger, returning to top level! 14:16:02 seems to work after optipng -fix file.png 14:16:06 oh there's not exclamation point 14:16:09 *no 14:16:16 Is this in SLIME? 14:16:25 crouton: are you using slime? 14:16:25 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.163.101.134] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:16:44 sbcl 14:16:45 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-84-210.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 14:16:58 without slime? 14:17:05 i have no idea what slime is 14:17:25 should i be using slime? 14:17:27 then no, but you should learn it anyway 14:17:35 because it's good 14:17:36 Hrm. In bare SBCL, I see "restarts (invokable by number or by possibly-abbreviated name):" 14:17:51 C-d works too 14:18:13 Unless you're on windows. I don't think C-d does anything useful at a win32 sbcl on console. 14:18:28 so if it says 2: exit debugger 14:18:29 it's in linux 14:18:33 press 2 and hit enter 14:18:41 okie dokie 14:18:49 milanj [n=milan@212.200.193.86] has joined #lisp 14:18:50 ah there we go 14:18:54 I 14:19:12 i was expecting it had to be something in parentheses 14:19:16 Entering ABORT and hitting enter would probably have worked as well. 14:19:28 minion: slime? 14:19:33 slime: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I? 14:19:34 No, the debugger prompt (like the inspector prompt) is special that way. 14:19:45 still? i can't work with such conditions! 14:19:45 I'm trying to install cl-irregsexp via asdf, however once it installs it errors out saying the system cannot be found 14:19:47 (Or maybe it's the normal REPL that's special that way...) 14:20:18 the system seems to be there under ~/.sbcl/site and systems 14:20:24 spacebat: name mismatch? 14:20:34 hows that? 14:20:44 filename and system name should be the same 14:21:02 filename should be systemname.asd yes? 14:21:04 hej nyef. Have your days of absence been productive? 14:21:30 tcr: Not particularly, I'm afraid. 14:21:46 Though I did manage to knit a pair of socks. 14:22:40 I have cl-irregsexp.asd in the right place, its strange 14:22:47 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.168.65] has joined #lisp 14:23:05 the slime setup I 14:23:16 'm using was put together by clbuild 14:23:45 but I haven't installed this package via clbuild, perhaps that's the problem 14:24:15 spacebat, you'd be welcome to add cl-irregsexp to clbuild; i only tested it with asdf-install 14:25:10 I'd like to get it going any way at all 14:25:10 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.193.86] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:25:27 -!- cmsimon [n=trisquel@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:25:28 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@76.89.231.7] has quit [] 14:25:36 going to try clbuild for it now - do I have to do anything special to tell clbuild about it I wonder 14:27:00 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:28:38 spacebat, can you post your exact error message? use the pastebin 14:30:10 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-110-136.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:34:20 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-76-22-154-126.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:35:01 no to worry c|mell, I got it to install via clbuild and its happy now 14:35:37 so it must be something to do with clbuild vs me using asdf-install 14:35:45 remote [n=remote@unaffiliated/remote] has joined #lisp 14:36:05 -!- remote [n=remote@unaffiliated/remote] has left #lisp 14:36:32 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229244101.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 14:40:06 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:41:22 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 14:41:59 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:42:03 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229244101.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:42:06 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:42:16 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:42:42 Standley [n=Standley@91.179.254.158] has joined #lisp 14:43:31 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229244101.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:43:59 -!- Standley [n=Standley@91.179.254.158] has left #lisp 14:45:56 glad someone's using good old cl-irregsexp :) 14:53:10 hehe well that's the plan 14:53:53 I want to snarf some system logs and figure it would be ideal 14:54:03 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:02 unlike some of my other projects, nobody is paying much attention to it -- that's the way the fickle wind blows i guess :) 14:56:03 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-103.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 14:56:48 I took note of it last year, and when searching for it recently I stumbled upon google's work on regular expressions for their javascript implementation 14:57:35 they talk about irregular expressions and their system also compiles down to native code 14:57:44 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:58:08 but of course its C/++ 15:00:09 -!- ejs [n=eugen@81-229-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:02:08 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-11-190.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:55 irregular expressions? 15:07:35 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.195.46] has joined #lisp 15:08:45 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-98-108.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:08:46 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-5-178.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:09:08 I think its just used as a cute name for alternative regexp implementatinos 15:09:39 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-1-251.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:40 -!- KingNatoG5_ is now known as KingNatoG5 15:09:53 hmmm is there a way of making a match greedy I wonder 15:13:52 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.163.128.212] has joined #lisp 15:15:26 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 15:17:47 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229244101.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:45 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:19:22 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:18 -!- Edward [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-41-33.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 15:22:53 yea, this code is even in the textbook for the class. i just have to modify it a little bit and i should be able to use it. 15:23:32 i'll just reference it to the original author i guess wherever it's old code 15:24:24 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-22-151.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:25:36 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:28:42 http://anonnode.net/sicp/src/1253648782604.png 15:30:22 spacebat, never heard of that :) hope they were copying cl-irregsexp 15:31:29 though i think that it might be better to rewrite the syntax to be like meta 15:31:56 c|mell: is there a way to indicate that a binding should have a certain pattern? 15:32:31 in all the examples it looks like the patterns (space etc) are for what goes in between the bindings 15:32:34 upy [n=upy@85.139.121.254] has joined #lisp 15:32:55 and the bindings are just whatever is found in between these patterns 15:33:04 yes, you put it like this (match-bind (progn (x (+ "x"))) and the x can only match a whole bunch of "xxxxx"s and will contain its match 15:33:08 what's with this cltl3? 15:33:16 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176152700.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 15:33:17 ah 15:33:46 you'd like to change the syntax? is 15:34:08 you'd like to change the syntax? is 'meta' a library in this case? 15:34:42 yes, it's an old CL thing a bit similar to cl-irregsexp (i hadn't heard of it before) 15:34:50 ok 15:35:17 it seems like the patterns are all 'ungreedy' if that's a word 15:35:24 the cl-irregsexp syntax is just a bunch of random stuff that has accumulated and which should be rationalized before it becomes perl 7 15:35:24 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:35:30 pepone [n=pepone@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:56 heh perl7... just before the heat death of the universe 15:36:10 maybe it can bootstrap us a new universe though 15:36:23 spacebat, you mean xmas 2008? 15:36:53 Hi, how a method can iterate over slots of a given object? 15:37:13 *tic* takes another stab at compiling UCW... 15:37:34 Edward [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-31-206.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:37:36 say I go (match-bind (first (+ (space)) second) "one flew over" ...) 15:38:05 first will be "one" and second will be "flew over" 15:38:32 is there a modifier that will make the (+ (space)) match as late as possible 15:38:55 so that first will be "one flew" and second will be "over" 15:39:16 jlf` [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 15:39:38 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 15:39:50 -!- upy [n=upy@85.139.121.254] has left #lisp 15:40:13 alright time to get a haircut. do you guys think i should cut it really short or just trim it a bit? 15:40:17 danlei [n=user@pD9E2F912.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:43 spacebat, you could try (match-bind (first (progn (+ (space)) (second (* (not (space))) (last)) ...) 15:40:44 ask them to cut it longer 15:40:55 nice 15:40:57 crouton: They should cut Lisp into your hair 15:41:02 lol 15:41:17 ooh progn 15:41:48 crouton: take along a pic of john mccarthy and say "make me look like that" 15:42:06 haha what does he look like now 15:42:28 old... but I mean back 70s era 15:43:16 he seems okay.. it's not really that bad. 15:43:30 hmm, i just checked out the cvs version of slime, but it seems to miss slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol (e.g. i can't even do M-x slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol) 15:44:20 Joreji [n=thomas@43-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:44:34 thanks for the info c|mell 15:44:39 pr: Put (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) into your .emacs 15:44:57 and for the code! 15:44:57 time to get some shut-eye 15:46:03 tcr: thanks, that did the trick :) 15:47:51 pr: Your previous version was quite old. You'll see that much has changed. Some things may annoy you. 15:58:06 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:10 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:58:15 Greetings. 16:02:51 -!- salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [] 16:09:07 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-220-175.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:09:11 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 16:09:13 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 16:09:40 -!- Blaay [i=Blay@89.142.247.202] has quit ["later"] 16:14:53 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-209-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:27 deafmacro [n=user@59.96.39.242] has joined #lisp 16:19:23 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-222-205.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:15 varjag [n=eugene@80.202.117.103] has joined #lisp 16:20:48 *chirp* 16:25:09 are there any good lisp IDEs besides SLIME? 16:25:49 Plenty 16:26:36 For Windows. there's the Lispworks IDE and the Allegro IDE 16:26:51 there's a plugin for Eclipse (Cusp), and also several plugins for Vim 16:27:23 necroforest: Also, don't be afraid to modify your definition of *good* 16:27:25 and CCL's Cocoa IDE 16:27:27 There's the IDE clozure is working on for the Mac 16:27:43 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@68.100.82.124] has joined #lisp 16:27:46 there's also QTHemlock 16:28:10 and there's http://phil.nullable.eu/ 16:28:11 and Climacs for McClim 16:28:17 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:21 tmh, why would I do that? 16:28:33 Most of them are Emacs-like editors, though 16:28:49 slime has issues for me... the repl locks up quite a bit and i have to kill it/start a new one 16:28:58 necroforest: Sometimes one's definition of *good* is based on ignorance. 16:29:08 necroforest: on what implementation ? 16:29:26 necroforest: Ah, well, I've not had that experience. 16:29:42 SBCL 16:29:47 on Ubuntu 16:30:22 That's my platform and I don't think I ever encountered such behaviour 16:30:25 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 16:30:50 necroforest: from where did you download SBCL ? 16:31:57 fe[nl]ix, using apt-get (standard ubuntu package) 16:32:05 hah! 16:32:11 Hunh. repl locks up often sounds like my experience with clisp on windows. 16:32:34 Yeah. I can type commands into it in emacs, but it never responds 16:32:45 necroforest: try using clbuild to get sbcl 16:33:14 *nyef* wonders if the slime fixes for win32 have been fixed or not yet... 16:33:20 necroforest: And get slime from CVS. There were revisions which would lock up Emacs during fontification 16:33:23 Is there any risk in using #+ignore(form) to skip a form? With my luck, I'll somehow encounter and ignore feature and the form will get processed. I need to ignore it until I can verify that it needs to be deleted. I guess I could also use #+delete(form), but that seems even riskier. 16:34:00 tmh: The safe way is #-(and) 16:34:23 Or #+(or) but I don't find that one as mnemonic 16:34:42 tmh: Some people use #+nil, but there's a standing joke about me producing a lisp system of my own. 16:37:02 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-6-87.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:37:23 (Hrm... Guess not, it's still doing unconditional things.) 16:38:13 I thought sbcl+slime+win needs your serve-event hackery 16:38:32 Someone made it not suck without new-serve-event, but doing so broke new-serve-event. 16:38:51 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:38:53 (Well, not suck -entirely-, at least...) 16:39:34 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-209-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:39:52 Basically, instead of just calling read-char-no-hang, it attaches an event handle to the socket and checks that for events, but that doesn't work if there's already an event handle associated. 16:40:05 And when using new-serve-event, read-char-no-hang works right anyway. 16:41:09 So what I was thinking was that the best option would actually be to condition it on *communication-style*, under the theory that anyone overriding the win32 default would be running a fixed serve-event of some sort anyway. 16:41:55 isn't all this hacks over hacks? 16:42:00 Yes. 16:42:07 yummy 16:42:16 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-90197.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 16:42:21 But their hack won't work over time -anyway-. 16:42:47 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:50 It happens to work for a particular default configuration, but as soon as anyone goes for new-serve-event or serve-event proper gets fixed, -boom-. 16:43:00 hey nyef 16:43:04 Hello p_l. 16:43:12 had any chance to work on Alpha emulation? :) 16:43:25 minion: advice on portable 16:43:25 #12017: It doesn't need to be portable, it just needs to work on your system. 16:43:30 Chance? Plenty. Motivation? None. 16:43:32 minion: advice on reliable 16:43:32 You can't expect automated advice for everything. 16:43:47 It should say "it doesn't need to be reliable, it just needs to work now" 16:44:30 -!- jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:45:07 jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:27 I'd wish that SBCL worked under Wine if it weren't for needing to hack against -windows- console behaviors that I don't know that wine supports. 16:46:17 (And, on that thought, if SBCL -did- work on Wine, would anyone actually use such a configuration?) 16:48:51 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:50:12 I've been using Sun's VirtualBox to run WinXP Pro 32bit and am very pleased with it. 16:50:27 Yeah, I have a few VirtualBox VMs myself. 16:51:02 I do it because everyone I interface with uses MS Office and friends. 16:51:17 Isn't that what OpenOffice is for? 16:51:36 Depends on how optimistic you are. 16:51:38 Not really. Stuff get's lost in translation. 16:51:47 (I do it because I have/had specific work requirements that involved XP machines and IE6.) 16:55:15 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 16:55:25 tagac [n=user@55.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:58:59 Anyone got a current SBCL/Win32 handy, or should I try the minor experiment I have in mind myself later? 16:59:32 I tried to specify (:use '()) in DEFPACKAGE so that nothing was used, but that was an error, is (:use) the proper form? 16:59:46 I believe that (:use) is the proper form. 17:00:06 Certainly, (:use (quote nil)) is unlikely to be correct. 17:06:46 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.96.39.242] has left #lisp 17:06:49 dralston [n=dralston@70.69.230.164] has joined #lisp 17:08:52 nyef: I actually prefer MS Office from OpenOffice 17:09:21 I do as well for some things. 17:09:53 It is good for making OSS zealots go apeshit crazy. 17:11:04 :-) 17:11:37 -!- varjag [n=eugene@80.202.117.103] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12:08 Microsoft Lisp. That'd be something. 17:12:10 Excel is still annoying. A chart series is limited to 34k data points. I switched from gnuplot to Excel to make life easier on a client and then ran into that limit, which is why I quit using Excel for plotting years ago. 17:12:25 It used to be limited to 4k data points in a series. 17:12:58 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@222-154-179-43.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 17:13:23 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:13:46 salva [n=salva@91.117.11.105] has joined #lisp 17:13:51 ... I recall someone teaching me that when you get such amounts of data, you stop using Excel 17:14:06 varjag [n=eugene@80.202.117.103] has joined #lisp 17:14:53 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-172-86.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 17:15:02 I do. In fact, anything I can do in Excel, I'd rather process in Lisp anyway. But, you'd be surprised how much engineering is done in Excel. It's rather scary, actually. 17:15:10 So, I have two goals for today. First, see if I can get SBCL to not just up and die when using C-c C-c from a slime repl on win32, and second to see if it does silly things on startup if there's a directory called DEV in the root directory of the current drive. 17:15:12 rather, I don't use Excel. 17:15:35 what Excel has going for it is the dataflow stuff. 17:15:56 and until kz stuff starts making sense, spreadsheets seem to be the way to go. 17:16:25 "kz stuff"? 17:16:33 hi, i have hunchentoot working and after a restart slime i get a The function USOCKET:SOCKET-CONNECT is undefined. Some idea what problem could be? 17:16:59 kz's, Kenny Tilton. 17:17:07 tmh: oh, I know. My friend has this bigass excel file that definitely belongs to the daily wtf 17:18:15 The spreadsheet idiom is great, what is not great is that the way most people implement programs in spreadsheets is very naive and very, very brittle. 17:19:19 salva: Perhaps you have to update usocket? 17:19:58 is the first i do when get the error 17:20:06 tcr: nope, usocket trunk/ is broken 17:20:07 thanks 17:20:16 the last release works 17:20:28 i'm using clbuild 17:20:33 Perhaps usocket isn't getting loaded automatically / early enough? 17:20:53 wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 17:21:00 nyef: that error is from usocket.lisp 17:21:07 Ah, okay. 17:21:35 interesting is that I get it ad load-time 17:21:45 if i (require :usocket) i get The function USOCKET:SOCKET-CONNECT is undefined. 17:21:48 rdd`` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:22:24 loxs [n=loxs@85-130-31-93.2073154325.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:36 Heh. -This- is what you get for always pulling the latest and greatest from source control. 17:23:19 nyef: yeah, an opportunity to contribute a fix 17:23:46 Nice spin control. 17:24:37 clbuild is not stable versions? 17:25:05 Some projects don't have stable versions. 17:25:30 I'm not saying that this is the case for usocket, but... 17:28:53 <_8david> cd clbuild/source/usocket; svn info; svn switch svn://.../usocket/tags/0.x.y 17:29:07 milanj [n=milan@212.200.193.86] has joined #lisp 17:29:07 -!- jlf` [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:29:43 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.80.125] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:03 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.80.125] has joined #lisp 17:30:31 _8david: How hard do you expect it would be for someone other than yourself to extract the relocation part of the relocation-branch from the other heap-space damage? 17:32:41 -!- rdd`` is now known as rdd 17:34:07 hi, i now install usocket-0.4.1 and all seems work well thanks 17:35:51 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:39:13 <_8david> nyef: if that "someone" is an SBCL hacker, pretty much trivial. 17:39:29 Fair enough, thanks. 17:41:07 I've also been thinking about the brk() bit with the dynamic heap growth thing, and I think something can be worked out for Win32 there as well. 17:43:38 -!- loxs [n=loxs@85-130-31-93.2073154325.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:46:09 Heh. SBCL/Win32 -does- do something stupid with \dev\tty on the current drive at startup if it exists. 17:46:25 (tested with 1.0.31.19) 17:48:00 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:04 _8david: Have you seen http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/named-readtables.html ? 17:48:14 _8david: It's pretty much completely generated. 17:48:22 there is a \dev on windows? 17:48:47 tic: Not normally, but it's easy to make one with mkdir. 17:49:29 nyef, yeah. thought it was magic Win32 device notation, like the COM1: of yore 17:49:54 "of yore"? COM1 and friends still work. 17:50:05 but used, in practice? 17:50:08 kingless [n=user@70.144.179.180] has joined #lisp 17:50:14 Occasionally, yes. 17:50:19 :-) 17:50:42 We tried to use NUL for a while in the SBCL build process, but it was a disaster. 17:50:50 why so? 17:51:14 SBCL didn't know it was a device name, so tried to stat(2) it as a file, and that didn't work so it refused to open it. 17:51:30 Ah. 17:51:43 What we ended up doing was using known files with contents that were guaranteed to have no serious side effects. 17:51:51 (version.lisp-expr, I think it was.) 17:54:23 <_8david> nyef: I think you would start with 4b9f9887, then cherry-pick 7fc2b5a9, f769c6cc, and edb7827b. Afterwards cherry-pick 91efc695 and 2bb64990, but beware that these commit affect other code than just relocation, so you need to take only the relocate.[ch]-related bits from those two. 17:54:33 tic: there's device file hierarchy, at least on NT 17:54:38 _8david: Cool, thanks. 17:55:06 <_8david> tcr: nice 17:55:15 <[Jackal]> SBCL/Win32 barfs at some regression tests. At least 1.0.31 and .19 did on my system. 17:55:15 _8david: I probably would have just started with the latest version and merged the relocation-looking bits to a clean tree. 17:55:27 tic: last time I checked, drivers were required to implement (someway) open/read/write/ioctl/close ;-) 17:55:43 [Jackal]: Yeah, I'd be surprised if any platform gets a consistently clean result on the test suite. 17:56:21 <[Jackal]> nyef: Pardon my ignorance. Are you one of the developers? 17:56:32 [Jackal]: Occasionally, yes. 17:57:08 I'm looking at the handling for ^C at the console window (and hopefully C-c C-c in SLIME) now. 17:57:31 <[Jackal]> nyef: Is it legally/ethically correct to host a Win32 release/CVS build someplace for those who don't have a toolchain? 17:58:25 <[Jackal]> I host an Emacs CVS build for Win32 at ntemacs.sf.net and have received a few requests in mail if I could provide SBCL and ECL builds. 17:58:35 [Jackal]: Sure. It's even more correct to ask on the list how you could help in providing official release builds. 18:00:39 <[Jackal]> I'd be honored to, considering I'm a humble newbie to CL and SBCL. I've had some experience with Scheme in past. 18:02:26 Adlai [n=Adlai@93-173-234-171.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:02:44 Blaay [i=Blay@89.143.185.91] has joined #lisp 18:03:14 Okay, phase one, behavior of SetConsoleCtrlHandler to -ignore- C-c input, check. Still causes EOF detection when reading from console. 18:03:49 I think that's about where I left off last time, only this time I'm calling SetConsoleCtrlHandler from the REPL. 18:07:18 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@68.126.198.233] has joined #lisp 18:08:25 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:09:11 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 18:10:19 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A367.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:52 -!- male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:20:16 -!- dralston [n=dralston@70.69.230.164] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:20:20 This is probably pretty basic, but... How do you pick a particular implementation if you have more than one on slime-lisp-implementations? 18:20:23 *chaitanya* wonders if someone's written a CL->Javascript compiler 18:20:36 Parenscript doesn't count, as its a "Lispified" JS 18:20:39 chaitanya: not yet, but there's a JS-in-CL :P 18:21:11 p_l: Heh, JS-in-CL? 18:21:18 nyef: M-- M-x slime 18:22:19 tcr: Thanks. 18:23:28 chaitanya: There's a jwacs which is a javascript to javascript compiler written in CL: http://chumsley.org/jwacs/documentation.html 18:24:23 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [] 18:24:32 the idea of javascript as the new ASM is looking more and more interesting to me these days 18:24:50 chaitanya: javascript as assembly code? what? 18:24:52 tcr: that looks interesting, tho not what i am looking for 18:25:11 Adlai: well, the idea is to make JS as (ir)relevant as ASM 18:25:16 so, i write code in CL 18:25:21 it compiles CL to JS 18:25:38 of course, the generated JS should take care of any browser quirks 18:26:02 any debugging should be done in CL, just like it is for today's CL compilers 18:26:29 don't know if that's possible -- but after a few months of working full time in JS -- i long for something like this 18:26:41 Quick Question oh Wise Lisp Folk: How does CCL/Win32 compare to SBCL/Win32 ??? I've read some brief performance notes, so I'm interested in stability, docs, libraries, community, etc. 18:26:41 hmm, I see. Assembly for browsers. 18:27:04 yeah, and I don't want to think in javascript 18:27:08 Summermute: > 18:27:41 Adlai: Like Wintermute but warmer and sunnier ;-) 18:28:06 what's Wintermute? 18:28:13 oh 18:28:15 Adlai: Oh, is that a .GT. sign? 18:28:20 yeah :) 18:28:58 Summermute: If you're a DIY man and long for fame and glory, SBCL on windows shall be your thing 18:29:18 From Neuromancer - sort of kicked off the modern "cyber punk" Sci Fi movement 18:30:03 tcr: Hmmm, CCL is looking prettier by the minute 18:30:16 wol [n=wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 18:30:29 Summermute: trust me it continues to do that once you actually run it :) 18:31:17 tcr: Funny thing is I'm writing a compiler - I just don't want to spend my time debugging someone else's!!! :-) 18:31:49 Adlai: That's good to hear. I did get slime setup with CCL without a hiccup 18:32:02 Summermute: you should write a CL->JS compiler in CL, and then compile the compiler to JS... 18:32:20 (and of course, insert one of those Knuth hacks while you're at it) 18:32:21 Summermute: Make sure to have (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) into your .emacs to enjoy it fully 18:32:36 *Adlai* also likes slime-asdf but some don't 18:33:12 Makes me feel old, but my CL experience is so old it predates ASDF :-( 18:33:47 What exactly does slime-fancy do? 18:34:14 without it slime is very minimalistic 18:34:34 Where did you get your copy of slime from? 18:34:37 More features, then. Are there docs somewhere on specifics? 18:34:45 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.80.125] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:35:03 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.80.125] has joined #lisp 18:35:04 Docs? We don't need no stinkin' docs. 18:35:05 Ohhh, that's a great question. It's been on my box for a while. 18:35:12 Summermute: in the Slime manual, you can read about contribs -- this includes almost all the contribs, except for a few like the tramp and asdf ones. 18:35:37 Summermute: Perhaps your copy is so old that it predates the introduction of contribs 18:35:40 Adlai: cool. And it sounds like I might want to update my slime 18:35:47 minion: slime 18:35:52 slime: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I? 18:36:05 *Adlai* feels for minion 18:36:20 Summermute: You can skim through http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/slime-talk-2008.pdf to take up stuff you don't know yet. 18:36:25 Summermute: yes, the best would probably just be to grab a copy of clbuild, which will help you keep your slime up-to-date. 18:36:46 Summermute: Similarly, you can read trough http://trittweiler.blogspot.com to read about some newer changes 18:37:11 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.195.46] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 18:37:33 Adlai: clbuild - ok, I'll look into that. Sheesh, more stuff :-) There's no problem with code that more code cannot solve :-) 18:38:13 Summermute: it's a shell script for helping you grab and install ASDF projects and slime automatically... actually, it might not work if you're on windows. 18:39:47 I was looking at the docs and thinking the same thing 18:40:27 Any suggested reading material on nested sets? 18:43:02 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Success] 18:43:14 tcr: BTW, I just looked and I have slime-2.0 installed 3/31/2008 18:43:36 Is that slime version ancient history? 18:43:42 <[Jackal]> I'm probably not brave enough to try clbuild on Cygwin/msys. Both have broken my heart more than few times. 18:43:57 Summermute: It's from half a decade ago 18:44:05 ;-) 18:45:15 <[Jackal]> SLIME 2.0 is old enough. Get it from repositories. It now has some features split-up in parts. 18:45:29 I find Cygwin install tends to grow and grow until it takes up all my HD space (I'm working on a smaller Lenovo laptop right now) 18:45:51 Summermute: maybe it's a message... 18:46:01 I finally installed utilities from GnuWin32 project and ditched cygwin 18:47:20 <[Jackal]> I'm having a bad time dealing with Cygwin, MinGW/MSYS, GnuWin32, UnxUtils and MiKTeX releases. Windows is just not cut for open source projects. ;> 18:47:27 I'm trying out clbuild for the first time now. I seem to be unable find how to compile an sbcl from it. Any pointers (nothing like 0xa3e45f2b, please)? 18:47:46 Oh, I have Linux boxen, but I'm putting some constraints on this compiler development project. First, written on Win32; second, excepting linker and archiver, self contained (fasm on both Win and Linux); third and so on and so on 18:48:27 serichsen: (sb-sys:int-sap #xa3e45f2b)? (You need a host lisp in order to kickstart a build an SBCL via clbuild.) 18:48:46 <[Jackal]> serichsen: clbuild update sbcl && RTFM :> 18:49:51 [Jackal]: I _have_ read the fine manual, but I thought that I would have to have installed an sbcl through clbuild already in order to be able to update it. 18:49:55 [Jackal]: thanks 18:50:50 <[Jackal]> serichsen: Of course you do, as nyef said. Fetch a binary release and use it to build the sources clbuild downloads for you. 18:52:24 Thanks all - I'll update my slime and try to settle down with CCL 18:52:42 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:53:07 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 18:54:23 nickcave [n=var@vps-1005590-1468.united-hoster.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:49 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:55:01 z4v [n=tmh@18987153227.nit.megazon.com.br] has joined #lisp 18:55:01 First success: setting console control to ignore break events from the console no longer causes EOF. 18:55:21 And, once the contribs are done building, I can try under SLIME as well. 18:55:44 Hmm, does l1sp.org search CLTL2 ? 18:55:53 It doesn't appear that it does. 18:56:31 tmh: no, but i'd love to add it, that's a nice idea 18:56:40 tmh: i just need an index to convert 18:57:14 Xach: lispdoc.com does, maybe that has the index? 18:57:25 brewski [n=wbruschi@cpe-72-224-241-156.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:50 Then, add cltl2 to yubnub and everything will be right in the world. sort-of 18:58:54 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:59:05 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 18:59:08 Xach, tmh: Why search CLTL2 when l1sp.org can already search CLHS? 18:59:27 <[Jackal]> nyef: Does http://ntemacs.sourceforge.net/ look agreeable to you? SBCL binary is hosted there but I have linked the sources to the official SBCL release link. I'll upload CVS sources there in case I put up a pre-release binary there. 18:59:40 I'm looking at old code and need to understand what the difference in the argument list, etc. 19:00:02 -!- Edward [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-31-206.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 19:00:35 [Jackal]: Looks good to me, not that that matters. 19:01:05 *Adlai* just wrote yet another crappy shell script. What a sad world Unix is. 19:01:18 write lisp scripts then 19:01:21 <[Jackal]> I don't want GPL lawyers on my back. ;> 19:01:23 chaitanya: it's interesting 19:01:45 [Jackal]: Looks fine to me, though I'd suggest marking it as an unofficial build. 19:02:14 (You realize that SBCL isn't GPL anyway, right?) 19:02:23 Xach: Interesting as in? (I've never really looked at CLTL2) 19:02:52 stassats: I'm putting off a ~/.profile.lisp until the LM renaissance 19:02:53 chaitanya: compare & contrast entries in the clhs 19:03:06 chaitanya: cltl2 has a livelier prose style 19:03:10 (Oh, and yay: I now have an SBCL that doesn't up and die when I C-c C-c it in SLIME under whichever nt emacs it is I use. 19:03:34 <[Jackal]> nyef: I have been waiting to make that joke since ...forever. ;> I'll explicitly mention the unofficial status of the builds. Thanks! 19:03:49 Adlai: i'm writing lisp scripts and i'm ok 19:04:02 Xach: ok. but doesn't CLTL2 contain some stuff not compliant with ANSI CL? (or so i heard long time ago) 19:04:26 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 19:04:50 Hrm... Now if I could just get cygwin emacs to start SLIME again I could test that... 19:05:31 stassats: what do you run them with? I just think that it'd be too clunky to do these little unixy things through CL when I can do them in a line or two of well-commented shell 19:05:49 chaitanya: CLTL2 has discussion of rationale for things that CLHS does not. Given the discussion and an understanding of the differences, you have a better understanding of why things are the way they are. 19:06:02 supposedly CLISP can work as a shell, though. Maybe I should look into that at some point. 19:06:21 you don't need it to work as a shell 19:06:46 chaitanya: Also, I'm looking at old code and need to identify why it doesn't correspond to what I see in the CLHS. It's very nice to look at CLTL2 so that when I update it, I get the behavior/intent correct. 19:07:29 cltl2 defun 19:07:29 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node66.html 19:07:34 stassats: do you just use it to run scripts, then? 19:07:53 tmh: Hmm. I never knew that. Guess I should take a look at CLTL2 sometime :) 19:08:04 Adlai: yeah, what's the problem? 19:08:22 stassats: pebkac :) 19:10:01 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 19:11:05 Hrm... cygwin emacs doesn't seem to want to deliver an interrupt at all, but nt emacs doesn't seem to have a problem. 19:11:13 -!- kingless [n=user@70.144.179.180] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:13:01 Hacking goals for today: Achieved (modulo cleanup). 19:13:06 stassats: While cltl2 is in specbot, I don't want to idle on #lisp just to use specbot because it is distracting. I'm trying to focus more on my work and less on #lisp. :-) 19:13:13 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 19:13:27 tmh: you can also just message specbot directly 19:13:31 tmh: you can pm to specbot 19:13:59 Oh yeah, I forget about pm. I'll try it. 19:14:01 pm specbot 19:14:08 oops 19:14:22 Not that specbot is identified to nickserv. 19:15:35 Ah, much better, just me and specbot, none of you distracting humans. 19:15:55 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:17:04 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@93-82-9-176.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:34 ruediger [n=ruediger@188-23-79-128.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:18:42 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:07 -!- pepone [n=pepone@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit ["KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3437, sources date: 20090703, built on: 2009/09/09 21:03:17 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/"] 19:21:49 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.80.125] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:22:34 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 19:22:34 Adlai` [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:22:37 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:23:11 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 19:23:26 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:08 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:25:15 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:37 kingless [n=user@adsl-144-179-180.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:58 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:27:28 |stern| [n=seelenqu@tmo-100-24.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:22 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.163.128.212] has left #lisp 19:33:54 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:33:58 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:17 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:42:36 Vonunov [i=jack@anapnea.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:47 Hey all, just curious if this looks like a reasonable high-level approach: http://pastie.org/private/klzacozxk9s8nqkqslba 19:47:40 lispm [n=joswig@e177150247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:52 Okay, going any further with a console control handler is definately out of scope for today, as it involves pseudo-atomic and blockable signals. 19:49:54 seangrove: if the header and footer are common, is there any need to mention them in the default case? 19:50:17 Xach: No, that's a good point 19:50:48 I'll take that out for now 19:50:48 seangrove: it reads a bit funny to me for the attributes to be labeled with verbs instead of nouns ("say" could be "prologue", "ask" could be "question", etc) 19:51:02 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-100-24.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:52:20 Does this seem like a practical use of lisp, to generate ruby code that others could edit - or am I trying to bend lisp to do something a bit weird? 19:53:33 seangrove: seems practical to me. 19:54:41 i've used the pretty printer to dump perl code for me 19:55:40 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-151-200-238-90.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:34 Woot! Solved my problem by using the source. Still, I'm not sure exactly what is going on, I'm just mimicking what I see in the code. 19:57:04 often the 'others could edit' part is tricky, also doing the round trip, parsing it back 19:58:27 one problem could be that linked lists would look a bit odd in Ruby 19:58:31 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@75.36.204.63] has joined #lisp 19:58:37 lispm: Oh, I'm just planning on spitting it out to ruby and using it as a base to edit from 19:58:45 I shouldn't have to worry about bringing it back in ;) 19:59:25 looks like a useful approach then 19:59:29 Great 19:59:31 seangrove: get that crap as far away from you as possible? :P 19:59:44 though I'm 'surprised' that you won't do it in Ruby 19:59:46 Haha 20:00:00 Can't be too elitist yet, this is my first lisp project, and I've yet to make it work yet 20:00:07 I often see Ruby adverized as an 'acceptable Lisp' ;-) 20:00:53 I wouldn't mind doing it in ruby, but it seems like a good fit for lisp...and there's only one way to get better 20:01:11 I'll need to finish this by the end of the day to keep my job though, likely 20:01:19 ;-) 20:01:26 'kay 20:01:37 trebor_home [n=email@dslb-084-058-246-104.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:21 Based on the video I saw, it looks like it would take someone experienced in lisp ~ 15 minutes to do 20:03:34 which video? 20:04:36 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.193.86] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:04:45 http://www.cl-http.org:8002/ dsl-in-lisp 20:04:56 ah, that one ;-) 20:04:57 The only lisp resource for dsls I could find online ;) 20:05:11 I made that 20:05:24 int80_h [n=michael@unaffiliated/int80h/x-0283782] has joined #lisp 20:05:26 Seriously? 20:05:29 yes 20:05:42 hi, I'm getting the following error when I try to compile a lisp file using slime 20:05:44 Haha, well, you went just slightly over my head, but thank you for the video 20:05:45 on the website! If you wish to donate 20:05:46 13:04 -!- - you can help out over at http://freenode.net/pdpc_donations.shtml 20:05:46 13:04 -!- - 20:05:58 opps sorry , here is the error, it's a one-liner 20:06:13 Unknown or unsupported external format: ISO-8859-1 20:06:14 quite a lot people have seen it, since the DSL topic still seems to have some popularity 20:06:27 I've tried my code in the repl, and it works fine 20:06:28 int80_h: Compile EXCL with --enable-unicode 20:06:35 I mean ECL 20:06:51 ah you knew I was using ECL :) 20:06:56 okay I will 20:06:59 seangrove: in the Lisp community the term DSL is not widely used 20:07:40 lispm: Hmm, I could see how that would be true 20:07:51 seangrove: the closest would be the term 'metalinguistic abstraction' 20:08:03 Since it seems like one simply extends lisp to match a domain's language anyway 20:08:21 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/sicp/book/node75.html 20:08:26 Well lispm, you going to be around for a few hours? 20:08:33 could be 20:09:18 Well, I may be bothering you a bit while I work on this then 20:09:26 First a quick restart so I can use the external monitor 20:09:59 oh, here on #lisp there are a lot of people who can help with that ;-) 20:10:02 Also, this link looks interesting...I haven't read SICP in some time. Do you suggest I read it through all the way first? 20:10:40 do you want to learn some Lisp programming, then start with PCL, Practical Common Lisp by Peter Seibel 20:11:03 great book, practical approach 20:11:14 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:12:23 Sounds good to me 20:12:28 I'll pick it up next week 20:12:31 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:15:54 PCL is pretty cool 20:17:33 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:18:27 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:49 male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:23 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-239-148.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:02 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:25:06 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:34 int80_h: PCL is ubercool and dead-sexy book ;-) 20:30:22 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:01 Any suggested reading material on lisp and tree structures? 20:31:38 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@222-154-179-43.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:31:54 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:31:58 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:47 ska` [n=user@124.157.196.138] has joined #lisp 20:35:40 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-29-143.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:50 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-166-251.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:37:53 newcmr [i=501e6451@gateway/web/freenode/x-hvkqmxjoyenckzht] has joined #lisp 20:38:04 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:38:55 dreish 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[n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-137.netcologne.de] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 20:42:36 lots of people joining 20:42:36 int80_h_ [n=michael@68.166.221.28] has joined #lisp 20:42:41 but not for (parse-line-for-class "foo" 'usage-call) 20:42:49 the article to the video is http://lispm.dyndns.org/news?ID=NEWS-2005-07-08-1 20:42:54 yes 20:43:19 In CLOS you can a) dispatch over all parameters and b) over classes AND objects 20:43:19 Ah, I'm very happy to see an article to go along with this - thank you 20:43:23 francogrex [n=user@91.177.16.110] has joined #lisp 20:43:54 lispm: it was a netsplit 20:44:02 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:44:09 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:12 I know, still good to see many people joining ;-) 20:45:07 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:45:23 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [No route to host] 20:49:13 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:50:42 why in cmucl when I type: (load "/mnt/home/puppy/cmucl.lisp") I get an error: File-error in function LISP::INTERNAL-LOAD: "/mnt/home/puppy/cmucl.lisp" does not exist. 20:50:51 I am sure it exists 20:51:25 (probe-file ...) returns what? 20:53:01 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-58-29-142.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:15 NIL 20:54:27 there you have it 20:54:37 francogrex: cmucl hates when you call it a puppy 20:55:20 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:20 minion: how are you? 20:55:26 how are you: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I? 20:55:33 still? 20:55:44 hmm, cliki itself seems to be working 20:55:47 poor bot! 20:55:52 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 20:56:13 -!- int80_h [n=michael@unaffiliated/int80h/x-0283782] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:56:15 minion probably has a wrong domain name for cliki or something 20:56:42 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:56:45 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:55 could be solved by an explicit entry in /etc/hosts on the machine it's running on :) 20:57:20 or changing the source, or the running minion object, if there is one 20:58:21 -!- kingless [n=user@adsl-144-179-180.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:59:17 lispm: btw, does your lisp news page have an rss feed? 20:59:39 it has, but unpublished 21:00:20 what is the use of that? (: 21:00:23 secret rss! 21:00:39 z4v [n=tmh@18987153227.nit.megazon.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:00:41 wanting to avoid that, since it is my home Mac with a changing IP and a small ADSL line 21:00:54 the use? I use it! ;-) 21:01:25 it was also used by Planet Lisp some time ago 21:01:43 I don't see you linked from there, so xach probably dropped it 21:02:00 I requested it 21:02:00 but looking through the entries, there is some high-grade lisp news content in there 21:02:06 have you considered alternative hosting? 21:02:30 the planet lisp entries are still in Xach archives 21:02:49 the old ones 21:02:49 lispm: you could use feedburner in front of it 21:03:05 feedburner is a very good idea. 21:03:09 there is still google reading the RSS feed 21:03:17 (that way, peoples' readers will draw from that, not your thing) 21:03:27 well, yes, but that's a tiny amount of data 21:03:32 phf [n=user@c-76-124-103-85.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:47 (in practice, these days, of course, most people use google reader anyway, so it may be a moot point) 21:03:59 _zenon_ [n=_zenon_@sarske.csbnet.se] has joined #lisp 21:04:13 antifuchs: do I know you from somewhere? 21:04:26 Ralith: I could ask you the same thing 21:04:32 is there a portable client for swank written in cl? (i've found cmucl specific swank-client so far) 21:04:41 antifuchs: *would* you ask me the same thing? 21:04:59 phf: what's a swank client? 21:05:02 phf: I believe the clozure cl IDE has one, but ICBW 21:05:22 it's possible (: 21:05:36 I'll continue this article at the office... 21:05:39 antifuchs: you're probably thinking of MCL swank client, but that one is completely mcl specific 21:05:54 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:59 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:41 phf: I was thinking of something else entirely, and it turns out to be a swank server, sorry 21:08:00 antifuchs: that's why I asked what a swank client was :) 21:08:20 lispm: I could put up a mirror of your dsl-in-lisp movie on a well connected webserver that cliki could link to. 21:08:27 I'm assuming it's something that asks swank questions about the state of the image and renders a pretty inspector 21:08:38 example usage: "slime is a swank client" 21:08:50 Fade: the video is on a usefully well connected server 21:09:13 antifuchs: right, so basically an API to the swank protocol 21:09:14 all the links i've found through google seem to point to your adsl connection. 21:09:15 :) 21:09:20 mathrick: yes 21:09:34 an API, not a UI? 21:09:34 Fade: the will be redirected from the home server 21:09:36 ah. 21:09:54 phf: then I'm not aware of any, but I never looked for one either 21:09:58 I guess the protocol is the api (-: 21:10:07 Fade: the video is on http://cl-http.org:8002 21:10:15 I find it surprising there would be *two* implementation-specific clients in existence 21:10:19 it makes no sense 21:10:31 antifuchs: but it's a horribly crappy API to use from CL 21:10:34 Fade: and my home server redirects request for the video to that server 21:10:43 mathrick: srsly? usocket and format? 21:10:52 S-Expressions as text? 21:11:02 have you even /seen/ a horribly crappy api yet? 21:11:06 antifuchs: you might've heard about that thing called "abstraction" 21:11:12 What's a crappy API? 21:11:26 sending text is a stupidly inconvenient API if you ask me 21:11:26 ah, okay, that's what I have 21:11:35 you may have heard of something called X11 (-: 21:11:53 Uhm sending text strikes me as less stupid than sending binary 21:11:56 especially parsing the markers such as ===> <=== for the current argument and such 21:12:09 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:10 tcr: I never said it was a bad protocol 21:12:11 That's not part of the protocol 21:12:12 X11? is that some successor to X10? 21:12:17 lispm: (-; 21:12:50 I just said it's not very convenient to use from CL 21:13:26 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.177.16.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:14:12 mathrick: why not? cmucl's swank client is pretty straightforward, (slime-eval '(+ 2 2) :cl-user) -> 4 21:14:53 but you have that thing called SLIME-EVAL 21:15:00 you're not sending characters over a socket 21:15:11 which is my point 21:15:12 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@84-72-45-92.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:15:16 mathrick: you're making it look harder than it really is 21:15:36 kingless [n=user@adsl-144-179-180.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:52 antifuchs: I'm merely saying it's really surprising to see that this kind of code would need to be implementation-specific 21:16:05 lukego [n=lukegorr@84-72-45-92.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:16:14 phf: You have to explicitly qualify symbols in remote expressions 21:16:55 well, no longer. usocket is old enough for kindergarten. 21:17:47 mathrick: in case of cmucl's client, i only saw dependency on stream package so far. MCL client does all the gui integration as opposed ot just simple rpc. 21:17:57 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 21:18:09 you could probably pack sexps into some binary format, but i don't remember swank being particularly unreasonable. 21:18:43 Well what do you actually want to use it for? 21:19:55 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:20:56 tcr: non-production rpc from shell scripts. i have instance running that controls my environment (stumpwm, phemlock, various bits of code for doing this and that). it already has swank on it, and this seemed like the easies rpc thing to integrate into 21:21:22 TDT [n=dthole@254.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:34 i'll just port that cmucl thing to usocket, and learn usocket in the process 21:22:47 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:22:48 awesome! 21:22:51 Sounds good. 21:23:02 Of course you could also give jstecklina a hand and work on cl-dbus 21:23:08 a hint for usocket users, a backlog value of 5 might be too small 21:25:44 what happened to Planner, the programming language? Did it just disappear silently? :/ 21:26:09 newcmr: Planner, Conniver, Schemer... 21:26:58 -> Prolog 21:27:42 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:27:59 you mean conniver and schemer are successor programming languages of Planner? 21:28:15 'schemer' not really 21:28:17 not sure. I was just throwing names out there :) 21:28:19 but conniver 21:28:25 "schemer" => "scheme" 21:28:28 yes 21:28:36 as far as I've read Prolog and Planner were competing different approaches 21:28:39 yeah, that was because of a six character limit to file names ;) 21:29:41 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:30:11 planner was before Prolog, slightly 21:30:18 conniver doesn't even have an entry in the wikipedia :/ 21:30:35 after Planner there were a multitude of logic languages 21:31:03 good night 21:31:03 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.163.101.134] has joined #lisp 21:31:05 there should still be a Micro-Planner available for Common Lisp 21:31:14 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d066c92.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["and thanks for all the lisp"] 21:32:20 -!- brewski [n=wbruschi@cpe-72-224-241-156.maine.res.rr.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:32:53 also theorem provers followed 21:33:18 Planner: http://dli.iiit.ac.in/ijcai/IJCAI-69/PDF/030.pdf 21:33:40 it seems prolog has overshadowed those descendant logic languages, lispm 21:34:25 yes and no, there are lots of logic languages - Prolog also is like Lisp, it is a family of languages 21:35:29 yes, but prolog is declarative and lisp is procedural 21:35:31 here is a better version of the Planner paper: http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/6171/AIM-168.pdf?sequence=2 21:36:08 and it seems planner represented the procedural approach to logic 21:39:00 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:39:01 Geralt1 [n=Geralt@p5B32C63C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:19 -!- Geralt1 is now known as Geralt 21:39:47 -!- kingless [n=user@adsl-144-179-180.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:41:30 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:35 so... micro-planner was developed using Lisp as a basis? 21:44:42 micro-planner was written in Lisp 21:45:09 Evolution of Lisp by Steele has more info on that -> http://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/HOPL2-Uncut.pdf 21:45:15 it's a good and fascinating read. 21:46:38 -!- wol [n=wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:46:40 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:41 vishsingh [n=vsingh@CPE0014bf4af6c2-CM000a739caee2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:58 "Lisp is the worlds greatest programming languageor so its proponents think." <- I love this sentence. 21:47:00 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 21:47:09 "Lisp is the greatest.... OR IS IT?!" 21:47:14 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 21:47:15 That's what I'm reading. 21:47:30 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 21:48:38 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:50:12 francogrex [n=user@91.177.16.110] has joined #lisp 21:51:11 I am trying LinJ with an old copy of cmucl 21:51:28 -!- vishsingh [n=vsingh@CPE0014bf4af6c2-CM000a739caee2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:51:39 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:52:28 vishsingh [n=vsingh@CPE0014bf4af6c2-CM000a739caee2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:17 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:53:29 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.177.16.110] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:54:21 francogrex [n=user@91.177.16.110] has joined #lisp 21:54:41 afaiu it seems that someone proved that both approaches to logic ( procedural and declarative- Planner and Prolog) were equivalent but apparently only prolog has gained "mainstream" status 21:55:15 newcmr: are you from Europe? 21:55:23 yes 21:55:47 Prolog was popular in Europe, but less in the US 21:55:59 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.163.101.134] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:56:24 But if you talk about logic programming languages... what names come to your mind? 21:56:50 newcmr: Uh, Prolog 21:56:59 newcmr: But also Mercury and a couple other things 21:57:13 But mainly just Prolog. 21:57:20 well like I was saying the system load but when I try (linj2java 'factorial) >> The server got an error # 21:57:28 anyone ever tried that? 21:57:34 all kinds of Expert Systems, that have backward and forward chainers for example 21:57:40 mercury is prolog with another name afaik :P 21:57:43 lispm: Like Jess? 21:57:48 description logics 21:57:51 *Makoryu* hated Jess 21:58:22 CycL 21:58:43 Mozart 21:58:45 Oz 21:58:54 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:59:07 I am aware that lisp/prolog have historically been competitors in the field of AI programming but I was thinking specifically about logic programming 21:59:50 actually Logic Programming is a wide field 22:00:08 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.177.16.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:00:13 -!- varjag [n=eugene@80.202.117.103] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:00:17 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:06 Jess is more like a forward chainer 22:03:52 interesting, because prolog uses backward chaining afaik... 22:04:40 too bad it is not open source :) 22:04:54 what is not open source? 22:04:58 jess 22:05:30 you can get similar stuff for Lisp 22:05:43 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:05:51 perhaps I'm just being the victim of wikipedia vandalism :/ 22:05:55 for example Lisa: http://lisa.sourceforge.net/ 22:06:56 Mattheus [n=yarrr@cpc1-warw2-0-0-cust755.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:43 macdice [n=user@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:09:52 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.208.235] has joined #lisp 22:10:05 -!- trebor_home [n=email@dslb-084-058-246-104.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:11:47 btw I've asked at #oz if oz is the silver bullet of programming languages but I haven't received a definite answer yet :) 22:12:22 yeah, because it sounds like trolling? 22:12:29 why? 22:12:31 -!- crouton [i=crouton@bas1-toronto10-1279555613.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:13:15 it is perfectly justified as it implements apparently all the programming paradigms 22:13:43 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:13:56 seangrove [n=user@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:07 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:10 victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has joined #lisp 22:14:11 all hundert? 22:14:13 -!- victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:14:23 hmm? :/ 22:14:28 victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has joined #lisp 22:14:43 kloeri [i=kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 22:14:46 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:14:57 there are quite a bit more paradigms that what Oz implements 22:15:04 newcmr: there's too many 'paradigms' out there. 22:15:05 -!- victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:15:07 even more? 22:15:10 hehehe 22:15:19 victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has joined #lisp 22:15:22 wikipedia says it only implements 7 22:15:45 -!- victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:15:46 the number of implemented programming paradigms says also not much 22:15:55 yeah 22:16:11 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:16:17 newcmr: pick a problem, analyze it, find a good language, implement a solution, done 22:16:21 in any case, if you're looking for having access to more programming paradigms, all you really need is a language flexible enough that you can implement them yourself. 22:16:28 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:16:31 (such as a lisp or similarly programmable language) 22:16:34 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:41 victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has joined #lisp 22:17:04 -!- victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:17:18 victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has joined #lisp 22:17:29 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:12 implementing a paradigm oneself sounds like no small feat :) 22:18:22 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:18:23 it's not that bad. 22:18:32 and you don't have to implement it yourself. 22:18:38 odds are, someone else has already done it. 22:19:42 lispm, you missed a step: find a good language -> learn that good language 22:19:46 :) 22:19:56 (or just learn lisp, ofc) 22:20:05 -!- chessguy_work is now known as chessguy 22:20:24 which arises the question: how much languages would be enough? and which ones? 22:20:33 *many 22:20:43 silly question. 22:20:49 why? 22:21:08 newcmr: look for a problem first 22:21:14 basically 22:21:42 you mean the needed number is practically unbounded? 22:21:44 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-151-200-238-90.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:21:57 you're assuming that there's no silver bullet, but that somehow, a set number of programming languages are a silver bullet for a set number of problems. 22:22:58 I don't know if the order is finding a problem and learning a language that is suited for that problem or learning a language and knowing which problems it is suited for 22:23:16 both? 22:23:47 <_zenon_> You can always construct a DSL based on another language, and of course a DSL is hopefully better qualified for the type of problems of it's domain 22:24:05 lqdshadow [n=lqdshado@24-217-21-197.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:25 but that DSL could be considered itself a part of the solution to that problem 22:25:47 ¥ǎ»¾¯ËÄ´óÈý£¬ 22:25:48 ×£ÄãÈ«¼ÒËÀ¹â¹â¡£ 22:25:48 ¶þÂÖÒ»ÔÂδÄêÉó£¬ 22:25:48 Ê®ÌìÉÏǧ±»Äã¿Ð¡£ 22:25:48 ÐÄÏñÑưͳԻÆÁ«£¬ 22:25:48 ¸¯ÂÒ¸ÒÅ­²»¸ÒÑÔ¡£ 22:25:50 Ò»µ³×¨Õþ²»ºÏÀí£¬ 22:25:52 ¹²µ³ºÏ·¨µÄÍÁ·Ë¡£ 22:25:54 Ãñ·ßÎÞ´¦ºÏÀíËߣ¬ 22:25:56 Æ´ËÀÌù´Ë¶ÄÒ»×¢¡£ 22:25:59 phf` [n=user@c-76-124-103-85.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:02 -!- phf [n=user@c-76-124-103-85.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:26:03 -!- victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:26:08 sorry, I can't read unicode 22:26:17 victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has joined #lisp 22:26:42 <_zenon_> Spammer 22:27:40 that was rather malformed UTF 22:27:48 :) 22:27:51 Are you sure it's UTF and not UUTF? 22:27:58 Good afternoon! Can anyone point me towards a commandline option-parsing package? I am looking for something in a similar vein to perl's Getopt package. 22:28:13 (Pronounced "double-U TF", of course.) 22:28:15 -!- victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:28:17 nyef: that was UTF-8 after going through being interpreted as ascii and then sent as UTF-8 ;-) 22:28:26 Ah. 22:28:28 victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has joined #lisp 22:29:16  <--- that's what you get in place of UTF-8 start sequence code 22:29:43 how can you be sure that it wasn't APL? 22:30:05 There's a website out there that I go to that I'm fairly sure is taking in UTF-8 as if it were latin-1, and then outputting it as if it were UTF-8 again, making it impossible to select a useful encoding override in a web browser to get legible output for quotes and whatnot. 22:30:17 <_zenon_> newcmr: :D 22:30:43 <_zenon_> Aliens - APL : Alien Programming Language, now it makes sense! 22:30:59 Oops. Managed to use a ;;-style comment in C code and not notice until the build failed. 22:31:58 I also find myself to start a function call by (f instead of f( 22:32:35 <_zenon_> Other nice things are trying to search in firefox with Ctrl+S 22:32:41 tcr: I did that all the time when I messed around with python :( 22:32:46 *stassats* constantly puts (defun while writing in C 22:32:50 As someone getting into Lisp programming, I find myself with the opposite habits... particularly commas between parameters. :( 22:33:08 *stassats* hates commas between parameters 22:33:26 Yeah, commas get in the way when you are maintaining. 22:33:39 _zenon_: Yeah, but the real funny thing is when I use konqueror at work (where C-s is for searching) I always want to press C-f because I'm trained by firefox that to search a website I gotta press C-f 22:34:19 Right now I'm more annoyed that I have to wait through another build cycle to test my changes when I expected to be able to just test them when I got back. 22:34:34 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:34:45 more power 22:34:52 greyhame [n=jao@75.Red-88-6-168.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:03 *_3b* likes / or ' for searching in firefox 22:35:12 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 22:35:16 conqueror? 22:35:29 hah that actually works 22:36:01 <_zenon_> nice. 22:36:03 So, what's the word on the slime/sbcl/win32 fix fix? 22:36:09 *stassats* constantly hits C-s in FF and then grumbles about not being able easily to modify keybindings 22:36:09 <_zenon_> Well I'm off to bed here 22:36:11 <_zenon_> Gnight 22:36:22 night 22:36:29 -!- _zenon_ [n=_zenon_@sarske.csbnet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:36:31 -!- newcmr [i=501e6451@gateway/web/freenode/x-hvkqmxjoyenckzht] has left #lisp 22:38:07 maskd [n=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has joined #lisp 22:39:28 "The bounding indices 865 and 256 are bad for a sequence of length 1292." 22:39:38 mmkay 22:40:39 -!- Mattheus [n=yarrr@cpc1-warw2-0-0-cust755.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 22:41:00 -!- victimofgcd [n=victimof@218.75.17.147] has left #lisp 22:41:30 _3b: Hey, I managed to get SBCL/Win32 to -ignore- ctrl-break entirely (instead of treating it as EOF, which was the previous behavior). And it works for slime-interrupt as well, at least on native emacs (cygwin emacs doesn't seem to have the same failure mode for some reason). 22:41:40 -!- lqdshadow [n=lqdshado@24-217-21-197.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has left #lisp 22:41:50 <_3b> nyef: that sounds useful 22:41:59 _3b: So maybe soon we'll have working slime-interrupt on win32. 22:42:15 *_3b* is mostly developing in ubuntu for the moment though, wanted sb-sprof 22:42:57 Mmm... Interval timer interrupts required for that? 22:43:14 <_3b> yeah, i think it was something like that 22:43:24 Not sure we'll ever get that working on win32. 22:44:31 At the same time, just nailing the console control handler and heap relocation will go a decent way towards improving the situation. 22:45:06 <_3b> relocation would let it have a reasonable chance at starting/running on arbitrary win32 systems, right? 22:46:55 Right. 22:47:01 More reasonable than currently, at least. 22:47:10 Also could lead into sbcl.dll. 22:47:20 <_3b> that sounds interesting 22:48:54 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:27 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:59:26 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:02:20 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 23:04:36 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08:26 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177150247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 23:10:10 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441929.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 23:10:41 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [] 23:12:57 jeti [n=jeti@p548EF4EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:03 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 23:13:34 minion: memo for lqdshadow: regarding getopt for lisp, see http://cl-user.net/asp/libs/getopt. 23:13:35 Remembered. I'll tell lqdshadow when he/she/it next speaks. 23:18:15 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@222-154-179-43.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:18:51 zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:33 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-98-108.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:22:07 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 23:22:48 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [Client Quit] 23:23:22 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 23:24:36 redblue [i=star@207.253.108.119] has joined #lisp 23:26:47 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-84-210.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:27:40 If I use :initarg in a class slot, do I also have to give it :initform? 23:27:55 no 23:28:10 Aszarsha [n=aszarsha@88-122-116-216.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:12 seangrove: or vice-versa 23:29:39 Ok, I recompiled the class and functions involved, and it worked 23:29:48 I guess I was just working with stale definitions in the repl 23:30:37 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 23:32:02 blackened`_ [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 23:32:06 So how's Slime working out for you? 23:32:16 Or Lisp in general 23:32:22 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483ECA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:32:32 I think it's slowing getting better 23:32:47 How long have you been using it? 23:32:48 But these things are exponential...the beginning is terribly slow and frustrating 23:32:57 1 day? 23:33:12 Around that long...read some paip and ansi lisp though 23:33:14 hah, wow ok, it's going to take quite a bit of time to realy get it. 23:33:25 Well, I've worked with scheme before 23:33:31 ah ok, nice 23:33:33 That was some time ago though ;) 23:33:35 Well, if you have your definitions in a source file, and compile them in peu a peu via C-c C-c you're on the right track 23:33:45 I came from PHP/Python, and wow lisp took some time 23:33:50 That's what I've been doing 23:33:57 C-c C-c for me! 23:34:13 seangrove: C-c C-d h opens a browser with the hyperspec page for the symbol at point 23:34:17 Took 8 months just to really start understanding stuff, and after over a year now, I'm still not fully comfortable with the language, heh. 23:34:32 tcr: Jesus, that's awesome 23:34:41 thank you 23:34:43 seangrove: M-. brings you to the definition of the symbol at point; M-? shows you the uses of the function 23:35:01 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-90197.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:35:08 *TDT* perks eye 23:35:10 seangrove: Ah, and `v' in the debugger on a frame brings you to the location of the frame 23:35:12 hah didn't know about any of those either. 23:35:22 that's pretty much the basics 23:35:29 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [] 23:35:37 TDT: Uhm 23:35:45 M-? is undefined for me 23:35:51 tcr: I knew C-c C-c, and that's about it, didn't know about the others 23:36:39 TDT: Then you should read through the slime manual, and http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/slime-talk-2008.pdf and http://trittweiler.blogspot.com 23:36:58 seangrove: Yeah it's a very recent addition. Didn't you check out slime from cvs? 23:37:02 tcr: Quite true..as much as I work with the language now, I really should. 23:37:24 I don't think so, my emacs is from cvs, but that's from probably two months ago 23:37:44 seangrove: slime does not come with emacs, you must have installed it separately 23:37:56 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 23:38:00 Yeah, that was also awhile ago, I'm sure 23:38:14 Anyway, I'll putter along for now 23:38:56 seangrove: Well, go to your checkout and run cvs up -dP and restart emacs 23:38:59 -!- jeti [n=jeti@p548EF4EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:40:21 I'll probably have to pull from cvs again, I think I may have removed the source 23:40:40 Is M-? worth the 30 minute distraction? 23:40:58 No probably not :) 23:41:13 Remember `v' in the debugger though 23:41:22 Definitely 23:41:28 In fact, I'll break something right now to try it 23:41:41 jeti [n=jeti@p548ECCDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:47 Just insert (break) in some of your function and recompile it 23:41:58 haroelcabo [n=user@r190-135-28-65.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 23:43:43 Strange, none of them work until I get down to what looks like the implementation of sbcl 23:44:16 No problem though, I'm not to the point where I need advanced debugging 23:44:21 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 23:44:29 Most of my errors have been pretty simple and easy to spot thus far 23:44:48 SBCL win32 console C-c fix: http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git?a=commitdiff;h=a45482650783220f1c3984c715b31c3607869205 23:46:48 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:47:19 <_3b> nyef: does interrupting from slime do nothing at all instead of killing sbcl with that? 23:47:31 -!- zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:47:32 Indeed. 23:48:32 The next step is to figure out what to do about pseudo-atomic / blocking signals for GC. 23:48:38 I only get tab-completion when on the repl - anyway to get it in my other buffers? 23:48:58 <_3b> seangrove: C-c tab, C-c C-i, M-tab, esc tab 23:49:02 -!- Blaay [i=Blay@89.143.185.91] has quit [] 23:49:05 C-M-i 23:49:08 The step after that is to hack something up to call sigint-%break or whatever it is as necessary. 23:49:43 Note that M-tab is a rather obnoxious keybinding on most systems... 23:49:47 -!- TDT [n=dthole@254.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [] 23:50:10 <_3b> works fine here :p 23:50:14 C-i is instead of tab 23:50:15 Thanks _3b and stassats 23:50:24 *_3b* usually uses esc tab anyway though 23:50:25 seangrove: You can put (define-key slime-mode-map [tab] 'slime-indent-and-complete-symbol) into your .emacs, then TAB at the beginning of a line will indent, and on a symbol will complete the symbol 23:51:30 Actually, the really tricky bit is going to be faking up the call in the first place, so I might do that first and then worry about deferring it to the right time. 23:51:57 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 23:51:59 tcr: Added. Thanks! 23:52:06 seangrove: You don't have to restart emacs to enable that. Put the line into your .emacs, then press C-x C-e on the ) to evaluate it 23:52:49 You might have to kill your existing .lisp buffer, and reopen it to take effect 23:55:08 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:22 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-166-23.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:56:24 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:57:29 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-147.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp