(3462566402 :privmsg "``Erik" "woops" nil)
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(3462567038 :privmsg "slash_" "I have a simple macro which uses a variable declared with defparameter, but slime keeps complaining about an unound var." nil)
(3462567082 :privmsg "luis" "pkhuong: what does \"correctly tagged\" mean exactly?" nil)
(3462567083 :privmsg "slash_" "And subsequently gives emits an error." nil)
(3462567091 :privmsg "slash_" "s/gives//" nil)
(3462567155 :privmsg "pkhuong" "luis: tagged with the expected tag. That only works if you have a relatively small set of tags, since natural alignment is checked for." nil)
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(3462567218 :privmsg "luis" "pkhuong: what if more than one tag yields proper alignment?" nil)
(3462567234 :quit "Ralith" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=ralith@69.90.48.127")
(3462567281 :privmsg "luis" "oh, they apply an offset to the pointer that should match the tag" nil)
(3462567281 :join "Ralith" nil "n=ralith@69.90.48.127")
(3462567286 :privmsg "luis" "I get it now." nil)
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(3462567352 :privmsg "pkhuong" "luis: right, like you would if the tag was known/assumed to be correct." nil)
(3462567353 :part "dstatyvka" nil "i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua")
(3462567441 :privmsg "luis" "BTW, do you know how to check if __thread supported?" nil)
(3462567476 :privmsg "luis" "GCC doesn't support it on every platform but I can't find a way to check that with an #ifdef." nil)
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(3462567496 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Thread local scope?" nil)
(3462567507 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "luis: that's what autotools are for" nil)
(3462567508 :privmsg "luis" "right." nil)
(3462567521 :privmsg "luis" "fe[nl]ix: ugh. :)" nil)
(3462567535 :quit "mattrepl" nil "n=mattrepl@70.182.191.195")
(3462567626 :privmsg "pkhuong" "luis: docs say it depends on the arch, linker, abi, and stdlib, so autolose is probably the only way." nil)
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(3462568162 :privmsg "p_l" "fe[nl]ix: ... autotools are scawwy and bwoken" nil)
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(3462568219 :action "p_l" "is terrified of libtool" nil)
(3462568222 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "p_l: feel free to write a better substitute for autotools" nil)
(3462568404 :privmsg "p_l" "fe[nl]ix: I got violated by them." nil)
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(3462568483 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "how melodramatic" nil)
(3462568545 :privmsg "p_l" "yea. I still don't know what the @%^)! libtool did on that mips host to cause a return from function to crash stack and dance fandango" nil)
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(3462569583 :privmsg "Xach" "sykopomp: should work ok now" nil)
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(3462570031 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Xach: works! Thanks." nil)
(3462570032 :join "lisppaste" nil "n=lisppast@common-lisp.net")
(3462570039 :privmsg "sykopomp" "wow, read-from-string is terrible :\\" nil)
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(3462570353 :privmsg "drewc" "sykopomp: how so exactly? R-F-S is quite wonderful IMO" nil)
(3462570432 :privmsg "sykopomp" "drewc: weird mixture of &optional and actually useful &key" nil)
(3462570446 :privmsg "drewc" "sykopomp: ah, yes.. there's a few of those." nil)
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(3462570647 :privmsg "Adlai" "the ACL FAQ actually has one question dedicated to that function" nil)
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(3462570666 :privmsg "FareWell" "Adlai: URL?" nil)
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(3462570866 :privmsg "Adlai" "http://www.franz.com/support/faq/index.lhtml#s-using-cl" nil)
(3462570880 :privmsg "Adlai" "FareWell, ^^" nil)
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(3462573637 :privmsg "iaindalton" "Excuse a newbie question, but why doesn't this work when replacing the (aref ...) with i works?" nil)
(3462573638 :privmsg "iaindalton" "(let ((arr (make-array 100))) (do ((i 2 (1+ i))) ((>= i 100) (format t \"~a~%\" (aref arr i)))))" nil)
(3462573638 :privmsg "weirdo" "is anything defined about namestrings?" nil)
(3462573651 :privmsg "weirdo" "or am i better to use MAKE-PATHNAME in hopes of achieving portability?" nil)
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(3462573790 :privmsg "Xach" "iaindalton: what did you expect, what happened instead?" nil)
(3462573837 :privmsg "iaindalton" "nvm, I figured it out. SBCL says \"The value 100 is not of type (MOD 100)\", which apparently means the aref is out of bounds." nil)
(3462573863 :nick "FareWell" "Fare" "n=Fare@c-98-216-110-136.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462573893 :privmsg "weirdo" "will GET-INTERNAL-RUN-TIME ever wrap round?" nil)
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(3462573965 :privmsg "iaindalton" "I don't understand types in Lisp; what does type (MOD 100) mean?" nil)
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(3462574107 :privmsg "Xach" "iaindalton: look it up." nil)
(3462574107 :privmsg "Xach" "clhs mod" nil)
(3462574107 :privmsg "specbot" "http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_mod.htm" nil)
(3462574139 :privmsg "Xach" "iaindalton: (mod 100) means an integer from 0 to 99" nil)
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(3462574294 :privmsg "weirdo" "heh, mod_lisp does exactly what fastcgi does, except it only works with apache" nil)
(3462574355 :privmsg "iaindalton" "Xach: thanks; I guess the CLHS has everything" nil)
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(3462574396 :action "kpreid" "notes http://recycledknowledge.blogspot.com/2009/09/common-lisp-symbols-bound-in-more-than.html in his feeds, points it out to Xach" nil)
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(3462574725 :privmsg "Xach" "jcowan plugged it earlier" nil)
(3462574737 :privmsg "kpreid" "ah" nil)
(3462574740 :privmsg "kpreid" "my schedule these days means I only skim irc" nil)
(3462574746 :privmsg "kpreid" "except when I'm procrastinating." nil)
(3462574751 :privmsg "Xach" "he also made incorrect statements about what a missing :use list means..." nil)
(3462574759 :privmsg "Xach" "but then left too quickly" nil)
(3462574779 :privmsg "kpreid" "Well, you put it in a minion memo, yes?" nil)
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(3462578408 :privmsg "|pepone|" "hi, how translate this c code to lisp while(true){printf(\"foo\\n\");}" nil)
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(3462578436 :privmsg "Zhivago" "(loop (format t \"foo~%\")) ?" nil)
(3462578473 :privmsg "|pepone|" "thanks Zhivago" nil)
(3462578478 :privmsg "sykopomp" "brilliant. Best benchmark ever." nil)
(3462578539 :privmsg "p_l" "lol" nil)
(3462578762 :join "slackjaw" nil "n=jolyonwh@203.143.170.201")
(3462578872 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Well, it looks to be one of the few benchmarks that measure a language rather than implementation." nil)
(3462578911 :privmsg "|pepone|" "i trying to write a simple socket server while understad the basics on lisp , what socket library do you think is better to start with" nil)
(3462578930 :privmsg "sykopomp" "depends on how sipmle" nil)
(3462578935 :privmsg "sykopomp" "if you mean dead simple, use usocket" nil)
(3462578942 :privmsg "sykopomp" "iolib if you need anything more than stupidly-simple" nil)
(3462579013 :privmsg "|pepone|" "i want it to be scalable and not stupidly-simple" nil)
(3462579024 :part "Fare" nil "n=Fare@c-98-216-110-136.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462579037 :privmsg "sykopomp" "there's your answer, then." nil)
(3462579037 :privmsg "|pepone|" "but i want it to be portable to different clisp implementations / os" nil)
(3462579141 :privmsg "pkhuong" "there's only one clisp implementation, clisp." nil)
(3462579181 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Please refer to the language as CL or Common Lisp." nil)
(3462579199 :privmsg "pkhuong" "while (true); ? That's not C." nil)
(3462579211 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Could be." nil)
(3462579238 :quit "ikki" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=ikki@200.95.162.30")
(3462579301 :privmsg "pkhuong" "right. WHILE( ...) BEGIN ... END also." nil)
(3462579333 :privmsg "Zhivago" "I don't think this is a particularly useful conversation to be having." nil)
(3462579370 :privmsg "|pepone|" "pkhuong: so what is allegro , sbcl, etc ? are not clisp implementations?" nil)
(3462579390 :privmsg "pkhuong" "no, they're common lisp implementation. clisp is also a common lisp implementation." nil)
(3462579398 :join "Makoryu" nil "n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net")
(3462579531 :quit "aaronfeng" nil "n=aaronfen@c-68-45-137-255.hsd1.nj.comcast.net")
(3462579839 :quit "fisxoj" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=fisxoj@149.43.98.34")
(3462579919 :privmsg "housel" "written in C, thus the name" nil)
(3462579957 :privmsg "|pepone|" "i see , i m too new to lisp" nil)
(3462580077 :privmsg "Makoryu" "I'm curious, is there a Lisp dialect/implementation targeted at the same embedded applications as Lua?" nil)
(3462580132 :privmsg "Zhivago" "thinlisp?" nil)
(3462580448 :join "felideon" nil "n=felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net")
(3462580465 :quit "QinGW" "Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=wangqing@203.86.89.226")
(3462580500 :quit "lpolzer" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=sky@dslb-088-073-236-207.pools.arcor-ip.net")
(3462580526 :join "QinGW" nil "n=wangqing@203.86.89.226")
(3462580640 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Zhivago: After careful examination I have determined that that is pretty much exactly *not* what I was asking for" nil)
(3462580645 :privmsg "Makoryu" "But thank you for the recommendation" nil)
(3462580677 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Makoryu: ECL is meant for embedding in C programs." nil)
(3462580681 :privmsg "weirdo" "depends on what you mean by \"embeddable\"" nil)
(3462580685 :privmsg "weirdo" "i thought you meant ARM" nil)
(3462580690 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Heh" nil)
(3462580694 :privmsg "weirdo" "see also gnu guile" nil)
(3462580736 :privmsg "weirdo" "but embeddabiliy-in-C is harmful. better rewrite everything in lisp from scratch" nil)
(3462580784 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Perhaps we have different ideas of \"embedded applications\". I guess you want \"embed into C\" rather than \"run on an embedded device.\"" nil)
(3462580796 :quit "Demosthenes" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=demo@c-76-124-82-88.hsd1.nj.comcast.net")
(3462580856 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Hmm, yeah, \"embedded applications\" was a really terrible choice of words, I guess" nil)
(3462580857 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Sorry" nil)
(3462580870 :privmsg "Makoryu" "I did ask for a Lua-alike, though" nil)
(3462580887 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Yes, I do mean \"embed in C\"" nil)
(3462580897 :privmsg "weirdo" "Makoryu, ECL has a very nice FFI" nil)
(3462580902 :privmsg "sykopomp" "ECL it is, then." nil)
(3462580909 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Or, s/C/$systems_language_of_the_week/" nil)
(3462580932 :privmsg "weirdo" "a downside is that it uses boehm gc, which means that valgrind won't be usable" nil)
(3462580936 :privmsg "|pepone|" "I have been testing a bit with hunchentoot, and itwas some how slow compared to apache, i test this with default server in hunchentoot.  is there a faster webserver thant hunchentoot in clisp? or is that the default hunchentoot is not tweaked configured for performance?" nil)
(3462580953 :privmsg "weirdo" "|pepone|, you can use fastcgi with lisp" nil)
(3462580971 :privmsg "weirdo" "|pepone|, don't use clisp, it's crap. use sbcl or some commercial impl" nil)
(3462580988 :privmsg "Zhivago" "clisp is not crap." nil)
(3462581002 :privmsg "|pepone|" "weirdo: sorry i using sbcl still confused clisp with cl" nil)
(3462581015 :privmsg "|pepone|" "i mean a faster web server in common lisp" nil)
(3462581031 :privmsg "sykopomp" "clisp is pretty meh..." nil)
(3462581040 :privmsg "weirdo" "Zhivago, maybe for architectures for which no native-compiler exists. but there's no point to be using clisp on x86/amd64, since it's probably what pepone is using" nil)
(3462581067 :privmsg "|pepone|" "weirdo: i using sbcl on linux x86" nil)
(3462581079 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Oh, there are plenty of good reasons -- it's easy to install, there are binaries for windows, it has readline support built-in." nil)
(3462581089 :privmsg "weirdo" "|pepone|, try fastcgi with my CL-FCGI library. it should give you about 75% performance of libfcgi" nil)
(3462581107 :privmsg "Zhivago" "It's a pretty conformant implementation -- and it has native code generation if you're stupid enough to turn it on." nil)
(3462581132 :privmsg "weirdo" "yeah, in clisp native-code is slower than the interpreter" nil)
(3462581178 :privmsg "Zhivago" "pepone: Generally if you're worried about speed I would suggest sticking a cache on the front." nil)
(3462581184 :privmsg "weirdo" "|pepone|, http://www.cliki.net/FastCGI" nil)
(3462581242 :quit "chavo_" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net")
(3462581496 :join "coderdad" nil "n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net")
(3462581538 :join "dagnachew" nil "n=dagnache@173.179.220.230")
(3462581712 :privmsg "beach" "Good morning!" nil)
(3462581735 :privmsg "weirdo" "hey" nil)
(3462581845 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Zhivago: SBCL ought to have readline(-ish) behavior by default. I think its lack thereof is a bug" nil)
(3462581860 :privmsg "beach" "Makoryu: For that, we use SLIME" nil)
(3462581896 :privmsg "Makoryu" "beach: This is simply a workaround for the bug." nil)
(3462581927 :privmsg "Makoryu" "I mean, in addition to every other purpose it serves." nil)
(3462582000 :privmsg "beach" "That's an, er, interesting point of view." nil)
(3462582055 :privmsg "beach" "I can already tell that you will give valuable feedback to many developers here." nil)
(3462582140 :privmsg "weirdo" "Makoryu, if you haven't used lisp for at least 5 years, you have no right to use it outside SLIME *and* complain" nil)
(3462582140 :privmsg "weirdo" ":-)" nil)
(3462582157 :privmsg "weirdo" "that is, slime or CLIM listener, etc." nil)
(3462582164 :quit "dagnachew" "\"Leaving\"" "n=dagnache@173.179.220.230")
(3462582167 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Oh man" nil)
(3462582168 :privmsg "Makoryu" "You guys" nil)
(3462582220 :action "_3b" "sees no problem with thinking it is a bug, as long as you don't actually expect anyone to do anything about it" nil)
(3462582227 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Makoryu: why don't you put a patch together?" nil)
(3462582230 :privmsg "rme" "Makoryu: you can use rlwrap to give you command-line editing" nil)
(3462582240 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Makoryu: that way, you can contribute, instead of adding to the sea of moaning already out there." nil)
(3462582274 :privmsg "weirdo" "and no, you can't do lisp with vim" nil)
(3462582275 :privmsg "Makoryu" "sykopomp: But if I stop moaning, people won't say hilarious things like \"you have no right etc. etc.\"" nil)
(3462582283 :privmsg "Makoryu" "weirdo: Sure you can. I learned in vim" nil)
(3462582297 :privmsg "weirdo" "\"and expect reasonable productivity\"" nil)
(3462582301 :privmsg "sykopomp" "weirdo: PG used vim + copy-paste-to-repl" nil)
(3462582322 :privmsg "weirdo" "sykopomp, PG is an old-timer, he knows what he's doing" nil)
(3462582330 :privmsg "sykopomp" "weirdo: say that to Arc." nil)
(3462582339 :privmsg "weirdo" "ha!" nil)
(3462582341 :privmsg "herbieB" "I was coding lisp in vim all day.  I did produce something!" nil)
(3462582349 :privmsg "herbieB" "Now I'm back to java :(" nil)
(3462582365 :join "Levenson" nil "n=Levenson@92.46.86.248")
(3462582373 :privmsg "weirdo" "but you made an informed choice of using vim. Makoryu is making an uninformed choice based upon not wanting to learn emacs" nil)
(3462582393 :privmsg "Makoryu" "weirdo: I learned Emacs first and switched to vim ;)" nil)
(3462582397 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Makoryu: I'm sure you've read this little exchange wrt readline + lisp? http://clisp.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/clisp/clisp/doc/Why-CLISP-is-under-GPL" nil)
(3462582423 :privmsg "weirdo" "sykopomp, RMS is a filthy liar" nil)
(3462582436 :privmsg "Makoryu" "sykopomp: Hmm, didn't I say \"readline-alike\" earlier? I'm sure someone could reimplement readline in CL in half an hour" nil)
(3462582439 :privmsg "weirdo" "he can use GPL code in conjunction with BSD-licensed code" nil)
(3462582453 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Makoryu: half an hour? Go ahead. I'll time you." nil)
(3462582456 :privmsg "weirdo" "RMS is a pathetic demagogue to fool him into switching to GPL" nil)
(3462582457 :privmsg "sykopomp" "tell me when to start" nil)
(3462582468 :privmsg "herbieB" "Makoryu: It's actually non trivial because of how you have to hook into the terminal to get multiline support." nil)
(3462582473 :privmsg "weirdo" "there was some lisp readline code" nil)
(3462582481 :privmsg "weirdo" "linedit" nil)
(3462582481 :privmsg "Makoryu" "herbieB: Oh, damn" nil)
(3462582491 :privmsg "herbieB" "Makoryu: I did it to create a CLI for java (using beanshell) to get a repl." nil)
(3462582494 :privmsg "Makoryu" "sykopomp: Okay, maybe a full hour" nil)
(3462582503 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Makoryu: tell me when to start timing it." nil)
(3462582517 :privmsg "weirdo" "Makoryu, http://www.cliki.net/Linedit" nil)
(3462582522 :privmsg "sykopomp" "I'm sure it's a welcome feature for the small minority of lispers that actually give a shit about sbcl readline support." nil)
(3462582522 :privmsg "Makoryu" "sykopomp: And also it would have to be not me, for reasons" nil)
(3462582522 :privmsg "weirdo" "here's your readline REPL" nil)
(3462582537 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Makoryu: for reasons involving \"it's easier to bitch\"?" nil)
(3462582547 :action "sykopomp" "goes back to wasting his time on other stuff." nil)
(3462582565 :privmsg "Makoryu" "sykopomp: Reasons involving \"I'm not really much of a CL programmer\"" nil)
(3462582578 :privmsg "sykopomp" "you could work on that." nil)
(3462582584 :privmsg "Makoryu" "I could" nil)
(3462582591 :privmsg "Makoryu" "That would take more than an hour, of course" nil)
(3462582599 :privmsg "sykopomp" "M-x viper-mode is recommended." nil)
(3462582624 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Viper-mode is honestly pretty terrible" nil)
(3462582630 :privmsg "Makoryu" "But never mind that" nil)
(3462582633 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Anyway" nil)
(3462582643 :privmsg "Makoryu" "weirdo: That's pretty much exactly what I'm talking about!" nil)
(3462582646 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Awesome" nil)
(3462582713 :join "reprore" nil "n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462582738 :privmsg "weirdo" "but slime-repl with paredit is of course much superior" nil)
(3462582819 :privmsg "Makoryu" "weirdo: Naturally. It's just that SBCL shouldn't have the implicit dependency of SLIME just to make it even a little usable" nil)
(3462582969 :quit "SandGorgon" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=OmNomNom@122.161.47.221")
(3462582975 :privmsg "weirdo" "Makoryu, perl doesn't have a REPL by default either (and yes, perl has a REPL)" nil)
(3462583025 :privmsg "Makoryu" "weirdo: And I've always thought that was a pretty severe failing of perl" nil)
(3462583041 :privmsg "_3b" "yay for models with normals defined for points. invalid normals." nil)
(3462583050 :privmsg "weirdo" "Makoryu, check out Sepia" nil)
(3462583072 :privmsg "weirdo" "though it isn't nearly as usable as SLIME" nil)
(3462583077 :privmsg "Makoryu" "weirdo: A perl thing?" nil)
(3462583082 :privmsg "weirdo" "it fails pretty badly, but still is better than nothing" nil)
(3462583083 :privmsg "weirdo" "yes" nil)
(3462583109 :privmsg "sykopomp" "minion: chant" nil)
(3462583110 :privmsg "minion" "MORE THAN" nil)
(3462583236 :quit "redblue" "Connection timed out" "i=star@ppp119.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca")
(3462583238 :privmsg "weirdo" "sykopomp, what does that do?" nil)
(3462583313 :quit "|pepone|" "\"KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3437, sources date: 20090703, built on: 2009/09/09 21:03:17 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/\"" "n=pepone@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com")
(3462583334 :privmsg "sykopomp" "weirdo: it makes minion a bit more assertive about things." nil)
(3462583336 :privmsg "sykopomp" "minion: chant" nil)
(3462583336 :privmsg "minion" "MORE ASSERTIVE" nil)
(3462583406 :privmsg "p_l" "hmm... can he chant \"LESS foo\"? :D" nil)
(3462583406 :privmsg "weirdo" "so it searches for \"more\" and prints it along with the next word?" nil)
(3462583413 :privmsg "weirdo" "more ó" nil)
(3462583414 :privmsg "weirdo" "minion, chant" nil)
(3462583414 :privmsg "minion" "MORE Å" nil)
(3462583419 :privmsg "p_l" "lol" nil)
(3462583427 :privmsg "p_l" "minion has problems with UTF-8 :D" nil)
(3462583433 :privmsg "drewc" "minion: chant!" nil)
(3462583435 :privmsg "p_l" "or, chatn has" nil)
(3462583435 :privmsg "minion" "MORE LISP" nil)
(3462583438 :privmsg "p_l" "*chant" nil)
(3462583462 :privmsg "sykopomp" "it's a bit more complex than that." nil)
(3462583479 :privmsg "sykopomp" "in fact, it's so complex, I consider it non-deterministic. The code for it is confusing." nil)
(3462583484 :privmsg "drewc" "listen to minion guys ^^" nil)
(3462583515 :privmsg "sykopomp" "drewc: minion's written in lisp! And that's what I'm talking about :D" nil)
(3462583631 :privmsg "Zhivago" "minion: Are you evil?" nil)
(3462583631 :privmsg "minion" "yes" nil)
(3462583639 :privmsg "Zhivago" "And there you have it." nil)
(3462583657 :privmsg "Makoryu" "minion: What keeps us dry when it rains?" nil)
(3462583657 :privmsg "minion" "a man, a plan, a canal - panama" nil)
(3462583671 :privmsg "Makoryu" "As good an answer as any!" nil)
(3462583673 :part "felideon" nil "n=felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net")
(3462583674 :privmsg "sykopomp" "brilliant." nil)
(3462583674 :privmsg "Adamant" "minion: are you man?" nil)
(3462583675 :privmsg "minion" "Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 44 seconds is too many." nil)
(3462583695 :privmsg "Adamant" "minion: would you like to play a game?" nil)
(3462583749 :privmsg "herbieB" "Adamant: He doesn't like you" nil)
(3462583770 :privmsg "Adamant" "herbieB: he is a cranky bitch" nil)
(3462583784 :privmsg "herbieB" "Adamant: He just fits right in on #lisp then." nil)
(3462583791 :privmsg "Adamant" "damn skippy" nil)
(3462583825 :quit "mattrepl" nil "n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net")
(3462583849 :join "Lemurian" nil "n=lemurian@unaffiliated/lemurian")
(3462584202 :join "iaindalton" nil "n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net")
(3462584329 :privmsg "weirdo" "everything is better with kittens. there should be a kitten-oriented programming paradigm" nil)
(3462584367 :quit "jikanter" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com")
(3462584623 :privmsg "herbieB" "Uhmmm...lolcode.com?" nil)
(3462584662 :quit "slackjaw" "\"Computer goes to sleep!\"" "n=jolyonwh@203.143.170.201")
(3462585085 :privmsg "beach" "Suppose I write a large system called FOO with many packages.  Should I call the individual packages FOO.P1, FOO.P2, etc, or perhaps FOO-P1, FOO-P2, etc. or something different altogether?" nil)
(3462585119 :privmsg "beach" "SLIME's difficulty with the former seems to suggest the latter." nil)
(3462585129 :join "bombshelter13_" nil "n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com")
(3462585137 :quit "reprore" "Remote closed the connection" "n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462585174 :privmsg "herbieB" "beach: I find I like the latter more.  Generally autocompletion/colorization plays nicer with hyphens." nil)
(3462585183 :privmsg "sykopomp" "beach: last I checked, slime supported the former thanks to a gigamonkey patch." nil)
(3462585200 :privmsg "beach" "sykopomp: Ah, I haven't updated SLIME on this computer for a while." nil)
(3462585203 :join "mrsolo" nil "n=mrsolo@68.126.198.233")
(3462585207 :privmsg "sykopomp" "and I've seen multi-package systems using the foo.bar notation before. That's also the standardish notation for hierarchical packages." nil)
(3462585219 :action "herbieB" "also likes it because it looks less like OO languages." nil)
(3462585239 :join "reprore" nil "n=reprore@116.82.73.92")
(3462585306 :privmsg "herbieB" "Or you could embrace php and go with the backslash?" nil)
(3462585332 :privmsg "sykopomp" "foo.bar is actually supported by some lisps, and slime abbreviates it to BAR> in the repl." nil)
(3462585720 :privmsg "weirdo" "what do you mean by \"supported\"?" nil)
(3462585726 :nick "legumbre_" "legumbre" "n=user@r190-135-10-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy")
(3462585732 :privmsg "weirdo" "hierarchical packages?" nil)
(3462585736 :privmsg "sykopomp" "weirdo: yes." nil)
(3462585868 :privmsg "Makoryu" "I think -> would be an ingenious package name separator" nil)
(3462585878 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Even more brilliant than \\" nil)
(3462585896 :quit "rme" nil "n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net")
(3462585906 :join "kejsaren" nil "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
(3462585917 :privmsg "beach" "Thanks to everyone for the advice." nil)
(3462586025 :join "KingNatoG5_" nil "n=patrik@84-217-15-39.tn.glocalnet.net")
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(3462586521 :quit "benny`" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=benny@i577A19B8.versanet.de")
(3462586566 :part "tmh" nil "n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh")
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(3462587078 :nick "KingNatoG5_" "KingNatoG5" "n=patrik@84-217-15-39.tn.glocalnet.net")
(3462587116 :quit "manuel_" nil "n=manuel@pD9E6C0F1.dip.t-dialin.net")
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(3462588816 :privmsg "p_l" "interesting tidbit from my last flight - some passport-related software on Schiphol resembles a curses-based CLIM listener :D" nil)
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(3462589589 :privmsg "p_l" "z0d: unfortunately none, don't know if I would be allowed to get one. But the method of use reminded me especially of Genera's Listener (at least in 8.5)" nil)
(3462589630 :privmsg "p_l" "there was a prompt and you'd get information and apparently input forms in the same \"window\"" nil)
(3462589651 :privmsg "p_l" "couldn't get a better look, been boarding the plane :D" nil)
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(3462590088 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "damn, i think i'm staring at an sbcl fasl bug. and it's non-deterministic for extra fun..." nil)
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(3462590330 :part "beach" nil "n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-15-25.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462590340 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "well, i don't have a reproducible test case yet. and i may just not see the forest from the tree..." nil)
(3462590366 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "but trying to intern a garbage string seems to be strange" nil)
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(3462596604 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "bonjour tout le monde" nil)
(3462596633 :part "Guest13202" nil "n=lexa_@83.222.5.112")
(3462596634 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "#lisp" nil)
(3462596643 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "rate :S" nil)
(3462596735 :quit "Adlai" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462596750 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "hello :)" nil)
(3462596779 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "Where could i find some good lisp how-tos and exercices ?" nil)
(3462596795 :privmsg "sykopomp" "minion: please tell Tek3|Eregrith about that-dead-sexy-book" nil)
(3462596799 :privmsg "minion" "that-dead-sexy-book: An error was encountered in lookup: Cookie of form used in compilation not equal to cookie of form found at runtime.." nil)
(3462596804 :privmsg "sykopomp" ":(" nil)
(3462596810 :privmsg "sykopomp" "minion: pcl?" nil)
(3462596815 :privmsg "minion" "pcl: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462596825 :action "sykopomp" "gives up" nil)
(3462596831 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Tek3|Eregrith: http://gigamonkeys.com/book" nil)
(3462596836 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "thank" nil)
(3462596841 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "s" nil)
(3462596855 :join "K3NT1S_aw" nil "n=kent@sd-16241.dedibox.fr")
(3462596892 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "yeah ! it IS sexy XD" nil)
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(3462596976 :quit "rstandy`" "Remote closed the connection" "n=rastandy@net-93-144-23-247.t2.dsl.vodafone.it")
(3462596992 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "is emacs lisp really different from classic lisp ?" nil)
(3462597015 :privmsg "sykopomp" "classic lisp being LISP from back in the 50s?" nil)
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(3462597124 :privmsg "antifuchs" "Tek3|Eregrith: some names are the same, but a lot isn't" nil)
(3462597142 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "okay" nil)
(3462597149 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "I'm a total noob in lisp" nil)
(3462597158 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "just barely seen it in emacs conf" nil)
(3462597173 :privmsg "fiveop" "can someone explain to me the idiom 'from soup to nuts'?" nil)
(3462597189 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "but i'd like to learn it :) so thx for the book" nil)
(3462597206 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Tek3|Eregrith: this channel (and PCL) is for Common Lisp, which is a modern dialect of the lisp family." nil)
(3462597231 :privmsg "sykopomp" "scheme, CL, and elisp are all fairly different languages." nil)
(3462597262 :privmsg "majhool" "fiveop: i think it's meant to juxtapose liquid and solid" nil)
(3462597290 :privmsg "majhool" "fiveop: it means everything" nil)
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(3462597319 :privmsg "majhool" "err, \"everything" nil)
(3462597320 :privmsg "majhool" "\"" nil)
(3462597357 :privmsg "fiveop" "ok" nil)
(3462597367 :privmsg "fiveop" "makes sense" nil)
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(3462597412 :privmsg "majhool" "fiveop: wikipedia says it describes the first and last courses of a \"full course dinner\"" nil)
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(3462597549 :quit "Levenson" "Remote closed the connection" "n=Levenson@92.46.86.248")
(3462597634 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "sykopomp: Okay, and is Common Lisp really powerful ? What are the advantages of it above other languages ?" nil)
(3462597649 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Tek3|Eregrith: what is \"powerful\"?" nil)
(3462597671 :privmsg "schme" "Tek3|Eregrith: We have ()'s, what more could you ask for? (:" nil)
(3462597689 :privmsg "tic" "schme has a point." nil)
(3462597697 :privmsg "tic" "Tek3|Eregrith, see topic. it's programmable." nil)
(3462597731 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "yeah but does it makes some things easier to do ?" nil)
(3462597734 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Tek3|Eregrith: I think it ends up coming down to \"it's programmable, and it's very good at rapid prototyping\"" nil)
(3462597736 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "like perl parsing" nil)
(3462597743 :privmsg "tic" "Tek3|Eregrith, that's a library thing." nil)
(3462597766 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "sykopomp: rapid prototyping ? of what ?" nil)
(3462597769 :privmsg "tic" "e.g. cl-ppcre" nil)
(3462597770 :privmsg "tic" "Tek3|Eregrith, software." nil)
(3462597787 :privmsg "tic" "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_application_development" nil)
(3462597795 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Tek3|Eregrith: you can write a working app very quickly, and completely rewrite it without as much trouble." nil)
(3462597805 :privmsg "sykopomp" "because it's less work to get something up and running." nil)
(3462597816 :part "majhool" nil "n=mrw@user-118bgr6.cable.mindspring.com")
(3462597820 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "-> That's powerful" nil)
(3462597820 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" ":)" nil)
(3462597821 :join "majhool" nil "n=mrw@user-118bgr6.cable.mindspring.com")
(3462597847 :privmsg "sykopomp" "depends." nil)
(3462597869 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "yeah well write/rewrite a working app quickly is a nice skill :)" nil)
(3462597872 :privmsg "tic" "also, Lisp gives you access to the running program. That's nice. Unlike other languages, you don't have a edit/compile/run cycle, but you rather update your app while it's running, and you can poke around in variables and functions in runtime. Think: gdb, but the ability to /modify/ the code. Interactive development." nil)
(3462597889 :quit "legumbre" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=user@r190-135-10-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy")
(3462597899 :privmsg "lisppaste" "majhool pasted \"new-union question\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87487" nil)
(3462597902 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "Tek3|Eregrith: if i was to start now our startup (as opposed to 3+ years ago), i'd more seriously consider some of the scheme implementations..." nil)
(3462597912 :privmsg "majhool" "so i have a question about that" nil)
(3462597938 :privmsg "majhool" "it's problem 2 from chapter 3 of paul graham's ansi common lisp" nil)
(3462597944 :privmsg "tic" "attila_lendvai, which scheme?" nil)
(3462597958 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "the language ?" nil)
(3462597967 :privmsg "majhool" "anyway, it works, but it's not idiomatic, so if you guys are willing to show me better versions i'd really appreciate it" nil)
(3462597973 :quit "salva" nil "n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com")
(3462597977 :privmsg "sykopomp" "probably PLT" nil)
(3462597984 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Tek3|Eregrith: yes, the language." nil)
(3462597988 :join "grouzen" nil "n=grouzen@91.214.124.2")
(3462598036 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "tic: i don't know. i'd play a week or two with the more serious implementations and decide based on that" nil)
(3462598045 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "sykopomp: is it more interesting for me to get to scheme more than lisp if i don't know both ?" nil)
(3462598075 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Tek3|Eregrith: I don't know. I liked starting with common lisp, and I still like CL better than scheme." nil)
(3462598082 :privmsg "hypno" "i think you should take the \"rapid prototyping\" nonsense with half a ton of salt: the truth is that it takes quite /some/ effort even in CL to create solid software, and the same is also true with regards to the language: you need to invest some time before payoff and seeing where it really helps you." nil)
(3462598083 :privmsg "sykopomp" "although PLT scheme is indeed pretty cool." nil)
(3462598085 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "Tek3|Eregrith: once you know cl or scheme, then the differences between the two are more in the details category..." nil)
(3462598108 :privmsg "sykopomp" "hypno: I feel like it's worth pointing out Dan Weinreb's talk when talking about rapid prototyping with CL." nil)
(3462598192 :join "blandest" nil "n=user@85.204.33.242")
(3462598193 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "attila_lendvai: Okay, so i'll start with CL" nil)
(3462598208 :privmsg "hypno" "sykopomp: the \"transaction processing...\"-thingy talk or which?" nil)
(3462598214 :privmsg "sykopomp" "yeah." nil)
(3462598224 :privmsg "majhool" "as a beginner and eventual amateur i've thoroughly enjoyed scheme and been a little disconcerted by common lisp" nil)
(3462598233 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "the book you linked me is for CL ?" nil)
(3462598239 :privmsg "sykopomp" "correct." nil)
(3462598242 :privmsg "tic" "Practical _Common Lisp_." nil)
(3462598302 :privmsg "sykopomp" "hypno: it's true that it takes some time to get a solid application (in any language, really), but I think being able to write a shitty version first has let me try different approaches and actually -see- the good/bad things. Specially when I'm not sure how to approach a problem." nil)
(3462598331 :privmsg "sykopomp" "for me, it's less about the rapid prototyping, more about being able to -play- with stuff, as opposed to committing to a design in my head which is usually completely wrong." nil)
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(3462598486 :quit "ia" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=ia@89.169.161.244")
(3462598501 :privmsg "fusss" "#<SB-SYS:FD-STREAM for \"a socket\" {BBF5341}> is not a character output stream.  <-- this means something isn't using fd-stream utilities right?" nil)
(3462598546 :privmsg "hypno" "sykopomp: indeed. an interactive system you could sit down and talk too and \"think design\" and all that. i am all with you there." nil)
(3462598560 :quit "mishoo" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=mishoo@86-124-79-237.iasi.cablelink.ro")
(3462598562 :privmsg "sykopomp" "hypno: it depends on the programmer." nil)
(3462598620 :privmsg "sykopomp" "but for me, I'm all for \"give me a playground, not a stack of punchcards\"" nil)
(3462598709 :join "matley" nil "n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it")
(3462598741 :privmsg "fusss" "is anybody porting cl-memcached to SBCL?" nil)
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(3462599453 :quit "mrSpec" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec")
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(3462599558 :quit "Athas" "Remote closed the connection" "n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk")
(3462599569 :join "mishoo" nil "n=mishoo@86-124-79-237.iasi.cablelink.ro")
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(3462599583 :join "rstandy" nil "n=rastandy@net-93-144-127-196.t2.dsl.vodafone.it")
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(3462600109 :quit "thehcdreamer" nil "n=thehcdre@81-174-49-12.dynamic.ngi.it")
(3462600259 :join "ole3" nil "n=user@62.96.71.236")
(3462600335 :privmsg "ole3" "hellp" nil)
(3462600339 :privmsg "ole3" "*hello" nil)
(3462600391 :privmsg "ole3" "i'm using clisp on debian, and would like to use the clisp-postgres extension, but it did not seam installed" nil)
(3462600396 :nick "dys`" "dys" "n=andreas@krlh-5f72ca7a.pool.mediaWays.net")
(3462600512 :privmsg "ole3" "So is there a standard way to load the extension or do i have to compile clisp myself in order to use it?" nil)
(3462600527 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "ole3: you should use postmodern instead (although i've never tried clisp-postgres)" nil)
(3462600566 :privmsg "ole3" "attila_lendvai: yes or clsql, but i don't have the choice" nil)
(3462600574 :join "Levenson" nil "n=Levenson@92.46.86.248")
(3462600617 :privmsg "hypno" "well, ime, clisp extensions are rather good, but i always  recompile myself." nil)
(3462600642 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "it is ffi based, postmodern goes through the postgres socket" nil)
(3462600657 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "i suspect that the socket way has less surprises" nil)
(3462600703 :quit "dizpater" "Client Quit" "n=dizpater@173.129.202.39")
(3462600723 :privmsg "ole3" "ok, thanks for the help. i will compile clisp." nil)
(3462600732 :privmsg "hypno" "well, i prefer the socket way of life too, not the least because i feel safer when not in FFI-land, but i've also experienced really shitty performance with sockets compared to the libs." nil)
(3462600807 :action "lnostdal" "wonders whether postmodern uses or can use local/unix sockets and whether that would matter wrt. performance" nil)
(3462600810 :join "QinGW" nil "n=wangqing@203.86.89.226")
(3462600836 :privmsg "Zhivago" "hypno: Hmm, that last sentence of yours is a bit confusing -- did you get part of it backward?" nil)
(3462600850 :join "manuel___" nil "n=manuel@pD9E6DBDA.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3462600871 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "i think the ffi way also goes through the same socket way when the db is remote, which is the case when you are concerned about performance..." nil)
(3462600934 :privmsg "hypno" "Zhivago: sorry. i ment that i got a lot better performance with FFI:ing into the database libraries, instead of using sockets." nil)
(3462600957 :join "robyonrails" nil "n=roby@host197-20-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it")
(3462600980 :quit "mrSpec" "Nick collision from services." "n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec")
(3462600982 :join "kejsaren" nil "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
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(3462601000 :quit "mrSpec" "Client Quit" "n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec")
(3462601026 :join "mrSpec" nil "n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec")
(3462601060 :privmsg "hypno" "attila_lendvai: well, i only remember because this was actually a big problem for me at the time (years ago). i'm sure the modern stuff is a lot better tho. :)" nil)
(3462601101 :quit "QinGW1" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=wangqing@203.86.89.226")
(3462601196 :quit "DrForr" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=drforr@pool-173-55-19-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net")
(3462601279 :part "ole3" nil "n=user@62.96.71.236")
(3462601285 :join "kejsaren1" nil "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
(3462601380 :quit "fusss" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au")
(3462601431 :join "fusss" nil "n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au")
(3462601583 :quit "HET3" "\"This computer has gone to sleep\"" "n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com")
(3462601615 :join "munichlinux" nil "n=munichli@121.241.165.245")
(3462601780 :quit "dwh" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net")
(3462601871 :quit "saikat_" nil "n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net")
(3462601879 :quit "kejsaren_" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
(3462601898 :quit "manuel_" "Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)" "n=manuel@pD9E6C0F1.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3462601925 :quit "mrsolo" "Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)" "n=mrsolo@68.126.198.233")
(3462601945 :quit "kejsaren" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
(3462602667 :join "HET3" nil "n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com")
(3462602797 :join "nikla" nil "n=nlg@h-63-40.A163.priv.bahnhof.se")
(3462603003 :privmsg "lisppaste" "nikla pasted \"faculty (iterative)\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87490" nil)
(3462603034 :privmsg "nikla" "How come my faculty function returns nil=" nil)
(3462603036 :privmsg "nikla" "?" nil)
(3462603081 :privmsg "stassats`" "wrong indentation" nil)
(3462603093 :privmsg "stassats`" "and hence wrong paranethesis" nil)
(3462603131 :privmsg "nikla" "pretend the parenthesis are correct ;)" nil)
(3462603148 :privmsg "stassats`" "and i think it should be named factorial" nil)
(3462603161 :privmsg "nikla" "the function returns correct value when using if, but not when using cond" nil)
(3462603167 :privmsg "stassats`" "nikla: i pretend, and voila, it doesn't return nil anymore!" nil)
(3462603181 :privmsg "nikla" "funny guy" nil)
(3462603187 :join "levy" nil "n=levy@apn-89-223-246-229.vodafone.hu")
(3462603191 :privmsg "stassats`" "well, i'm serious" nil)
(3462603218 :privmsg "nikla" "So, your saying its not an error?" nil)
(3462603232 :privmsg "levy" "in case anybody seen the \"Square is not a Rectangle\" post on reddit, here is a relevant CL post from me: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9mvq1/a_square_is_a_rectangle/" nil)
(3462603360 :privmsg "lisppaste" "stassats` annotated #87490 \"balanace 'em all\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87490#1" nil)
(3462603512 :privmsg "lnostdal" "levy, http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:X79h_7K6bKUJ:paste.lisp.org/display/76968 .. change-class might not be a very good idea for this :}" nil)
(3462603537 :privmsg "lnostdal" "oh, you used change-class too .. heh" nil)
(3462603567 :join "fusss_" nil "n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au")
(3462603575 :privmsg "fusss_" "levy: (in-package :cl-user) is more idiomatic, no?" nil)
(3462603598 :quit "fusss" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au")
(3462603599 :quit "nikla" nil "n=nlg@h-63-40.A163.priv.bahnhof.se")
(3462603601 :join "benbos67" nil "n=ben@CPE-124-177-162-112.qld.bigpond.net.au")
(3462603609 :nick "fusss_" "fusss" "n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au")
(3462603613 :privmsg "levy" "lnostdal, what's wrong with change-class?" nil)
(3462603614 :privmsg "lnostdal" "a nice thing about it is that the identity of the objects are maintained" nil)
(3462603725 :privmsg "lnostdal" "perhaps nothing, levy" nil)
(3462603762 :quit "QinGW" "Success" "n=wangqing@203.86.89.226")
(3462603887 :join "benny" nil "n=benny@i577A19D3.versanet.de")
(3462603918 :join "isabellf" nil "n=isabellf@bas2-montreal31-1242480105.dsl.bell.ca")
(3462603927 :quit "benbos67" "Remote closed the connection" "n=ben@CPE-124-177-162-112.qld.bigpond.net.au")
(3462603937 :quit "jsoft" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft")
(3462604095 :privmsg "lnostdal" "i'll upvote your post .. but it is probably futile; the angry c# and php hackers will soon kill it .. :)" nil)
(3462604325 :join "aaronfeng" nil "n=aaronfen@c-68-45-137-255.hsd1.nj.comcast.net")
(3462604360 :join "mvilleneuve" nil "n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462604396 :privmsg "mvilleneuve" "good morning" nil)
(3462604413 :privmsg "mvilleneuve" "afternoon, sorry" nil)
(3462604501 :privmsg "weirdo" "levy, upvoted for great justice, and downvoted morons" nil)
(3462604503 :join "dwh" nil "n=dwh@ppp118-208-171-218.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net")
(3462604536 :join "Edico" nil "n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico")
(3462604663 :quit "|Soulman|" "\"KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/\"" "n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com")
(3462604726 :privmsg "levy" "weirdo, thanks, the comments so far are not so useful" nil)
(3462604766 :privmsg "spiaggia" "hello mvilleneuve :)" nil)
(3462604767 :privmsg "levy" "it's worth looking at the other topic, how long is that: http://cafe.elharo.com/programming/a-square-is-not-a-rectangle/" nil)
(3462604870 :privmsg "fusss" "what a productive day; had 10 days of dry spell and today everything just jelled together" nil)
(3462604901 :privmsg "fusss" "got too lazy porting cl-memcached to sbcl, decided to use hashtables and mutexes :-)" nil)
(3462604937 :privmsg "fusss" "i keep all the user session on the originating hunchentoot instance anway, so it made sense to keep the database cache in there as well" nil)
(3462604962 :join "drafael" nil "n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-136.xdsl.xnet.co.nz")
(3462604982 :quit "drafael" "Client Quit" "n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-136.xdsl.xnet.co.nz")
(3462604991 :privmsg "fusss" "with hashtables you can remove both squid and memcached; too many moving parts, too many server-side IPC, sockets, etc. keep everything compact in a single instance and do nothing more than a function call." nil)
(3462605055 :privmsg "aaronfeng" "for those interested in trying out weblocks web framework (http://weblocks.viridian-project.de/), I created an easy installer to generate a self contained weblocks project with all the dependencies \"frozen\" within the project.  It takes about 15 seconds to download and generate the project.  All you need is sbcl, curl and tar.  http://github.com/aaronfeng/weblocks-install/  the README contains more info.  all suggestions are welcome." nil)
(3462605074 :quit "dys" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=andreas@krlh-5f72ca7a.pool.mediaWays.net")
(3462605100 :quit "HET3" "\"Leaving\"" "n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com")
(3462605186 :quit "rstandy" "Success" "n=rastandy@net-93-144-127-196.t2.dsl.vodafone.it")
(3462605205 :join "rstandy" nil "n=rastandy@net-93-144-127-196.t2.dsl.vodafone.it")
(3462605231 :privmsg "fusss" "aaronfeng: cheers!" nil)
(3462605247 :privmsg "fusss" "aaronfeng: are you using weblocks on in production?" nil)
(3462605381 :privmsg "aaronfeng" "fusss: no, I'm not at the moment.  But there are definitely weblocks apps in production.  I been playing around with weblocks on and off." nil)
(3462605407 :join "Patzy" nil "n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net")
(3462605409 :privmsg "aaronfeng" "fusss: but I'm toying with a couple ideas..." nil)
(3462605417 :privmsg "fusss" "aaronfeng: yes, the MIT medical thing and HFSBO, along with that scandinavian game" nil)
(3462605424 :quit "benny" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=benny@i577A19D3.versanet.de")
(3462605433 :join "drafael" nil "n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-136.xdsl.xnet.co.nz")
(3462605462 :privmsg "aaronfeng" "fusss: how about you?" nil)
(3462605481 :privmsg "fusss" "vanilla hunchentoot through and through" nil)
(3462605635 :privmsg "aaronfeng" "fusss: if you ever get a chance give weblocks a try, the installer only takes less than couple minutes to download and compile :)" nil)
(3462605652 :privmsg "fusss" "yeah, i have weblocks on two machines :-)" nil)
(3462605665 :privmsg "aaronfeng" "great." nil)
(3462605672 :privmsg "fusss" "i am probably the only one running it on Win32 LW :-P" nil)
(3462605678 :privmsg "fusss" "took a little patching" nil)
(3462605694 :privmsg "aaronfeng" "wow...  I would say so.." nil)
(3462605705 :join "Yuuhi" nil "n=user@p5483DFDA.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3462605709 :privmsg "fusss" "i fuzzed the asds and removed dependence on symbolic links and unix-style paths" nil)
(3462605714 :join "DrForr" nil "n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net")
(3462605777 :join "jikanter" nil "n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com")
(3462605848 :privmsg "tic" "libcl, anyone tried it out?" nil)
(3462605849 :quit "isabellf" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=isabellf@bas2-montreal31-1242480105.dsl.bell.ca")
(3462605926 :privmsg "fusss" "tic: took a look at it, but i already had all the libraries" nil)
(3462605944 :privmsg "fusss" "http://libcl.com/libcl-current/index.html" nil)
(3462605968 :privmsg "tic" "mudballs, clbuild, etc. I don't understand the purpose of libcl." nil)
(3462606023 :join "mstevens" nil "n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org")
(3462606191 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "is it normal that sbcl does not signal a warning when redefining a macro?!" nil)
(3462606209 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "i keep piping in (defmacro x () ) and no warning comes" nil)
(3462606229 :privmsg "tic" "no warning here." nil)
(3462606250 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "Xof: any wisdom to share?" nil)
(3462606313 :privmsg "Xof" "sbcl has a single environment, and defmacro is basically (eval-when (:all :the :time) (%defmacro ...))" nil)
(3462606333 :privmsg "Xof" "so unless you want a warning for every single definition of a macro when you compile-and-load something, you don't get warnings" nil)
(3462606376 :privmsg "Xof" "so it's not completely trivial just to stick in a (warn ...); you need to do some work" nil)
(3462606400 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "this lead me into about the longest debugging session of the past 3 years of lisping... due to some package issues an aif macro was redefined and i was tracing the sbcl compiler to be able to catch it" nil)
(3462606436 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "because the error came through looking for a completely unrelated package while loading the fasl" nil)
(3462606463 :privmsg "Xof" "the solution is easy: don't use aif" nil)
(3462606470 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "and only because some info slot of debug-fun was storing intermediate macroexpansion state (?)" nil)
(3462606470 :quit "proq" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@38.100.211.40")
(3462606477 :join "kami-" nil "n=user@unaffiliated/kami-")
(3462606480 :privmsg "kami-" "hello" nil)
(3462606484 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "or don't cut&paste anaphoric macros in every little project ?" nil)
(3462606516 :join "cp2_" nil "n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info")
(3462606521 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "come on, i'm talking about the meta-problem here... by now i know the solution myself too" nil)
(3462606534 :privmsg "Xof" "or \"actually work with your upstreams rather than forking the world and then saying that it's too hard to work to make modifications acceptable\"?" nil)
(3462606584 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "Xof: what are you talking about? the only forks we have is slime, and this is completely unrelated to forks" nil)
(3462606585 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "attila_lendvai: you could change defmacro and make it warn every time you redefine one" nil)
(3462606644 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "the only sin we made was trying to sidestap the lame lisp system management tools and try lowering the number of dependencies by some small copy/paste's" nil)
(3462606659 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "sidestep*" nil)
(3462606726 :join "Athas" nil "n=athas@shop3.diku.dk")
(3462606797 :join "ignas_" nil "n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt")
(3462606818 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "Xof: ...but while we are at it, could you please elaborate on the \"it's too hard to work to make modifications acceptable\" part? what exactly are you thinking of? because i have numerous pending threads with patches *and* questions what to change for acceptance on various mailing lists..." nil)
(3462606824 :join "pr" nil "n=pr@unaffiliated/pr")
(3462606832 :privmsg "pr" "hi" nil)
(3462606900 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "...and before you bring up the single slime-devel story, please count the number of people who had trouble there with the maintainer..." nil)
(3462606991 :privmsg "weirdo" "attila_lendvai, really, there are no more forks in dwim?" nil)
(3462607045 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "weirdo: a fork and a publicly available repo temporarily holding patches until acceptance in upstream is two different things. if you wash the two together then..." nil)
(3462607072 :privmsg "Xof" "ok, how about that hack you showed off on sbcl-devel for your component class initialization?" nil)
(3462607079 :privmsg "weirdo" "attila_lendvai, you could at least rename the system and the package" nil)
(3462607092 :privmsg "Xof" "not that that's the best example, just the most recent" nil)
(3462607142 :quit "cp2" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info")
(3462607151 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "should i stop working while the maintainer is on holiday? should i tell my users that for an indefinite time our framework is not installable? or maybe put on a repo holding our patches, write a mail to the author, and go on working..." nil)
(3462607209 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "weirdo: ?! for a freaking 5 line patch that most of the time reaches upstream in a week or two? rename the system?! have you ever heard of distributed version control?" nil)
(3462607244 :privmsg "weirdo" "attila_lendvai, for all other systems except dwim stuff, i can use the official repos without any trouble" nil)
(3462607253 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "Xof: that's an unfortunate optimization in one of our projects, redefining some sbcl internals to keep things fast. it's far from a fork..." nil)
(3462607274 :privmsg "weirdo" "ugh" nil)
(3462607279 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "weirdo: which means what?" nil)
(3462607312 :privmsg "weirdo" "attila_lendvai, clbuild install foo, then (require 'foo). and it compiled and runs" nil)
(3462607329 :privmsg "weirdo" "just like this" nil)
(3462607353 :privmsg "weirdo" "i guess i shouldn't be an ungrateful bastard since you actually produced high-quality software" nil)
(3462607356 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "make-instance was too slow on a profiling session, 10x slower. after a few M-. and half an hour i saw an easy way to speed it, which stopped hindering development... (with 10 kludge comments)" nil)
(3462607359 :privmsg "weirdo" "much more than i ever did for lisp" nil)
(3462607393 :privmsg "weirdo" "attila_lendvai, does the fix break CLHS/AMOP? if not, it would be nice seeing it integrated" nil)
(3462607405 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "weirdo: so, do you work on a system that depends on 30+ other systems?" nil)
(3462607446 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "weirdo: it's an extension to some internal optimization. de-pessimizing it with a few special-case if's that are completely project-dependent" nil)
(3462607457 :privmsg "Xof" "look, I'm not objecting to you doing what you do -- I'm just saying that it demotivates me from working to help fix your problems, because it takes a vast amount of time for me to work out where you're starting from" nil)
(3462607476 :privmsg "weirdo" "attila_lendvai, i try to write libraries which depend on as little as possible" nil)
(3462607494 :privmsg "Xof" "weirdo: at some point, someone has to do stuff with a bunch of libraries :-)" nil)
(3462607497 :privmsg "weirdo" "most of them don't depend upon anything other than CL; others depend on closer-mop only" nil)
(3462607499 :join "benny" nil "n=benny@i577A19D3.versanet.de")
(3462607520 :quit "munichlinux" "\"Foo\"" "n=munichli@121.241.165.245")
(3462607552 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "Xof: i've never asked anyone for help without producing a testcase, or up to more extent than a few minute brainstorming... (it was levy yesterday asking about the same problem here, i wasn't following)" nil)
(3462607614 :privmsg "meingbg" "Is there any lisper out there dedicated to Intentional Programming?" nil)
(3462607646 :action "stassats`" "programs unintentionally, while asleep" nil)
(3462607662 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "bah, this is waste of time... i felt surprising hostility and i started protecting myself, but would that help any...?" nil)
(3462607694 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "meingbg: i (and levy) was working for intentsoft at the early days" nil)
(3462607697 :join "silenius" nil "n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net")
(3462607718 :action "attila_lendvai" "leaves for lunch" nil)
(3462607774 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "Xof: and before i forget, thanks for the details on the defmacro situation" nil)
(3462607807 :privmsg "Xof" "you're welcome" nil)
(3462607851 :join "ThomasI" nil "n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi")
(3462607854 :join "kiuma" nil "n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it")
(3462608046 :quit "ignas_" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt")
(3462608138 :join "Coliveira" nil "n=Coliveir@69.248.128.195")
(3462608280 :quit "kejsaren1" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
(3462608364 :join "myrkraverk" nil "n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk")
(3462608381 :quit "stassats`" "Remote closed the connection" "n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats")
(3462608392 :join "stassats`" nil "n=stassats@ppp78-37-149-218.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru")
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(3462608535 :nick "legumbre_" "legumbre" "n=user@r190-135-25-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy")
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(3462609009 :privmsg "levy" "to fork or not to fork that is the question" nil)
(3462609077 :nick "spacebat_" "spacebat" "n=akhasha@118.210.155.74")
(3462609084 :privmsg "levy" "anyway, there's always a good reason when we are forking anything; believe it or not, we don't want to waste time and do that just for fun..." nil)
(3462609162 :quit "coliv" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=Coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net")
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(3462609580 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "I can't find Lisp in a Box for Freebsd :(" nil)
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(3462609592 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "Looked the website, only proposing for linux and windows" nil)
(3462609605 :privmsg "Tek3|Eregrith" "And not in the ports either :S" nil)
(3462609659 :privmsg "matimago" "Tek3|Eregrith: the lispbox(en) for linux should be rather portable to freebsd. You only need to recompile emacs and the CL implementation." nil)
(3462609681 :privmsg "matimago" "IIRC there was one for MacOSX." nil)
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(3462611542 :quit "redblue" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "i=star@ppp026.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca")
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(3462611657 :quit "trebor_dki" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de")
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(3462611679 :privmsg "fusss" "attila_lendvai: you guys are doing a lot of heavy duty engineering, so are the Core Server guys; why don't you have a chat and see if you can work together?" nil)
(3462611690 :action "fusss" "does the least amount of engineering possible" nil)
(3462611732 :quit "mstevens" "\"leaving\"" "n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org")
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(3462611819 :privmsg "fusss" "brb, good nite" nil)
(3462611820 :quit "fusss" "\"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]\"" "n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au")
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(3462612843 :quit "Yuuhi" "\"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)\"" "n=user@p5483DFDA.dip.t-dialin.net")
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(3462614090 :quit "mattrepl" "Client Quit" "n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net")
(3462614310 :quit "OmniMancer" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=OmniManc@219-89-108-42.jetstart.xtra.co.nz")
(3462614335 :join "c|mell" nil "n=cmell@x250012.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp")
(3462614420 :privmsg "levy" "fusss, that would be great but I don't think that it would work out" nil)
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(3462615074 :quit "K3NT1S_aw" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=kent@sd-16241.dedibox.fr")
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(3462615728 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "hello" nil)
(3462615784 :quit "Levenson" "Remote closed the connection" "n=Levenson@92.46.86.248")
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(3462615879 :privmsg "spiaggia" "hello fe[nl]ix" nil)
(3462615891 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "hi spiaggia" nil)
(3462616095 :join "hugod" nil "n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca")
(3462616127 :action "adlai" "struggles the with X" nil)
(3462616128 :quit "ejs1" "Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=eugen@77.222.151.102")
(3462616141 :action "adlai" "thinks it's time we had CLX-server" nil)
(3462616158 :privmsg "Xach" "adlai: nyef will deliver" nil)
(3462616161 :join "ejs1" nil "n=eugen@77.222.151.102")
(3462616187 :privmsg "adlai" "Xach: this is being worked on!? awesome!" nil)
(3462616206 :privmsg "adlai" "s/awesome/stumpwm/" nil)
(3462616213 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "Xach: if somebody manages to pay him, maybe" nil)
(3462616234 :privmsg "Xach" "nobody paid him for sbcl/win32!" nil)
(3462616247 :privmsg "Xach" "of course, it languishes in an incomplete state..." nil)
(3462616252 :quit "drafael" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-136.xdsl.xnet.co.nz")
(3462616274 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "Xach: making a good(not just barely usable) X server is hard" nil)
(3462616280 :privmsg "spiaggia" "adlai: It is called CLXS.  I think there is even some documentation." nil)
(3462616280 :privmsg "Xof" "levy: are you Levente on reddit?" nil)
(3462616293 :privmsg "levy" "Xof, now you got me" nil)
(3462616301 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "Xach: IMO, a lot more than porting sbcl to win32" nil)
(3462616302 :privmsg "Xof" "your square/rectangle code invokes undefined behaviour" nil)
(3462616332 :privmsg "levy" "Xof, well, that might just mean that we have to define it" nil)
(3462616339 :privmsg "levy" "ok, and what is that?" nil)
(3462616341 :privmsg "Xof" "or if it doesn't, it should: change-class of a specialized parameter to a method within that method's dynamic scope is doomed to disaster" nil)
(3462616389 :join "munichlinux" nil "n=munichli@121.241.165.245")
(3462616398 :quit "Dawgmatix_" "\"Ex-Chat\"" "n=dman@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net")
(3462616399 :privmsg "Xof" "\"This implies that a programmer must not use change-class inside a method if any methods for that generic function access any slots, or the results are undefined.\"" nil)
(3462616407 :privmsg "munichlinux" "can someone suggest me good book on natural language processing?" nil)
(3462616592 :join "postamar" nil "n=postamar@x-132-204-255-168.xtpr.umontreal.ca")
(3462616648 :privmsg "levy" "Xof, change-class is the tail call" nil)
(3462616656 :privmsg "levy" "so I don't see too much trouble there" nil)
(3462616667 :privmsg "Xof" "it is right now" nil)
(3462616699 :privmsg "levy" "Xof, well, obviously you can change any code to use undefined behavior" nil)
(3462616707 :privmsg "matimago" "levy: what if there's an :after method?" nil)
(3462616710 :join "Levenson" nil "n=Levenson@92.46.86.248")
(3462616724 :privmsg "Xof" "yes, but it's fairly normal to convert CLOS tail calls into non-tail calls, just through the usual definitions of auxiliary methods and method combination" nil)
(3462616726 :quit "c|mell" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=cmell@x250012.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp")
(3462616732 :privmsg "matimago" "This constraint means that CHANGE-CLASS should probably be rather called from a function than a method..." nil)
(3462616750 :privmsg "Xof" "and from a function that is not called within methods, either" nil)
(3462616756 :privmsg "matimago" "Indeed." nil)
(3462616774 :privmsg "Xof" "I also think that (make-instance 'rectangle ...) not returning a direct instance of RECTANGLE is undefined behaviour" nil)
(3462616798 :join "proun" nil "n=proun@cpe-76-180-85-22.buffalo.res.rr.com")
(3462616857 :privmsg "proun" "does anyone happen to have an example of cl-devil in action? i'm following along with some opengl C and it's not quite working" nil)
(3462616868 :privmsg "levy" "Xof, anyway the point of that post is not that it can be implemented in Common Lisp, but rather that it can be implemented if the object can change its type runtime" nil)
(3462616873 :privmsg "Xach" "proun: what is cl-devil?" nil)
(3462616909 :action "Xach" "finds more info, but not enlightenment" nil)
(3462616919 :privmsg "proun" "cl bindings for devil, an image loading lib: http://openil.sourceforge.net/" nil)
(3462616935 :privmsg "proun" "supposely works well with opengl" nil)
(3462616939 :quit "ehu" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl")
(3462616958 :privmsg "Xach" "gotcha, thanks." nil)
(3462616996 :privmsg "proun" "cl-devi here, but no examples: http://www.ohloh.net/p/cl-devil" nil)
(3462616997 :privmsg "adlai" "minion: cl-devil" nil)
(3462617002 :privmsg "minion" "cl-devil: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462617009 :join "reprore" nil "n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462617017 :privmsg "adlai" "minion: indeed, those are unreasonable conditions" nil)
(3462617023 :privmsg "minion" "indeed, those are unreasonable conditions: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462617044 :privmsg "adlai" "minion: yes, no need to repeat yourself!" nil)
(3462617049 :privmsg "minion" "yes, no need to repeat yourself: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462617059 :action "adlai" "sad" nil)
(3462617098 :privmsg "stassats`" "minion: CHANT" nil)
(3462617098 :privmsg "minion" "MORE THAN" nil)
(3462617107 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "minion: babel" nil)
(3462617112 :privmsg "minion" "babel: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462617123 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "??" nil)
(3462617126 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "cliki works" nil)
(3462617153 :privmsg "adlai" "fe[nl]ix: maybe minion and cliki had a fight?" nil)
(3462617173 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "oh, family business" nil)
(3462617185 :privmsg "adlai" "yeah" nil)
(3462617208 :privmsg "adlai" "you know maybe minion felt a bit dominated, always running errands" nil)
(3462617209 :privmsg "stassats`" "lisppaste's web interface doesn't work properly too" nil)
(3462617213 :join "davazp" nil "n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net")
(3462617215 :quit "varjag" "\"Leaving\"" "n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no")
(3462617217 :privmsg "adlai" "lisppaste: url?" nil)
(3462617217 :privmsg "lisppaste" "To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste." nil)
(3462617225 :privmsg "adlai" "now that's a reliable bot!" nil)
(3462617236 :quit "djkthx" "\"leaving\"" "n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu")
(3462617239 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "stassats`: what do you mean ?" nil)
(3462617243 :privmsg "stassats`" "adlai: this is one bot, actually" nil)
(3462617250 :privmsg "stassats`" "http://paste.lisp.org/display/87496 is blank for me" nil)
(3462617252 :join "djkthx" nil "n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu")
(3462617273 :privmsg "stassats`" "but i can fetch it from xml-rpc" nil)
(3462617275 :privmsg "adlai" "stassats`: minion, lisppaste, and specbot are all run from the same program?" nil)
(3462617305 :privmsg "stassats`" "yeah, they're in the same image" nil)
(3462617318 :privmsg "adlai" "I guess that makes sense given how they cooperate; for example, the result of `minion: lisppaste'" nil)
(3462617336 :privmsg "stassats`" "minion: paste 87496?" nil)
(3462617337 :privmsg "minion" "Paste number 87496: \"mcabber\" by ano in None. http://paste.lisp.org/display/87496" nil)
(3462617353 :privmsg "adlai" "lisppaste: paste 87654?" nil)
(3462617376 :privmsg "adlai" "minion: paste 87654?" nil)
(3462617381 :privmsg "minion" "paste 87654: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462617401 :privmsg "adlai" "hmm." nil)
(3462617411 :privmsg "stassats`" "minion doesn't like you" nil)
(3462617522 :action "adlai" "offers minion an electronically-composed cookie" nil)
(3462617523 :quit "ejs1" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=eugen@77.222.151.102")
(3462617544 :join "ejs1" nil "n=eugen@77.222.151.102")
(3462617571 :quit "munichlinux" "\"Foo\"" "n=munichli@121.241.165.245")
(3462617613 :join "sohail" nil "n=sohail@76-10-170-203.dsl.teksavvy.com")
(3462617629 :privmsg "proun" "ah got it.. missing a car in there!" nil)
(3462617647 :quit "grouzen" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=grouzen@91.214.124.2")
(3462617674 :privmsg "Xach" "does anyone here read planet.cliki.net?" nil)
(3462617697 :privmsg "matimago" "I receive emails." nil)
(3462617708 :privmsg "matimago" "Is there a mail list?  If not, then I've got a program that does..." nil)
(3462617732 :privmsg "Xach" "there is no mail list" nil)
(3462617756 :privmsg "matimago" "So I read it thru rss2email" nil)
(3462617813 :quit "delYsid" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at")
(3462617820 :privmsg "Xach" "ok" nil)
(3462617827 :privmsg "stassats`" "Xach: i will from now on" nil)
(3462617857 :action "Xach" "doesn't read it, but must update its DNS records" nil)
(3462617870 :action "stassats`" "is reading cliki recent changes" nil)
(3462617917 :action "Xach" "emails drewc about changing the DNS" nil)
(3462617949 :privmsg "stassats`" "Xach: at the end there is \"For older items, see the Planet Lisp Archives.\"" nil)
(3462617962 :privmsg "stassats`" "but this is planet cliki, not Lisp" nil)
(3462617997 :privmsg "Xach" "stassats`: thanks for the info. i will update it sometime." nil)
(3462618080 :join "TDT" nil "n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com")
(3462618082 :privmsg "stassats`" "and <link rel=\"alternate\" type=\"application/rss+xml\" title=\"Planet Lisp RSS\"	href=\"http://planet.lisp.org/clikis/rss20.xml\" />" nil)
(3462618082 :privmsg "stassats`" " " nil)
(3462618121 :join "slyrus_" nil "n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-215-89.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net")
(3462618125 :privmsg "Xach" "stassats`: did you see the \"beta\" part in red?" nil)
(3462618140 :privmsg "matimago" ":-)" nil)
(3462618146 :privmsg "stassats`" "yep, doesn't that mean \"bug reports are welcome\"?" nil)
(3462618148 :privmsg "Xach" "it is so beta, it might collapse at any moment" nil)
(3462618155 :join "Reav__" nil "n=Reaver@212.88.117.162")
(3462618169 :privmsg "matimago" "Downgrade it to Alpha." nil)
(3462618219 :privmsg "Xach" "i didn't know anyone actually read the site until i moved servers a few years ago and stopped maintaining it. i thought maybe those few readers had stopped." nil)
(3462618257 :privmsg "matimago" "Sometimes I make additionnal edits when I see something has changed." nil)
(3462618279 :privmsg "stassats`" "sometimes edits are interesting" nil)
(3462618371 :privmsg "Xach" "yes...i just don't like how cliki's feed is formatted" nil)
(3462618387 :quit "ejs1" "\"This computer has gone to sleep\"" "n=eugen@77.222.151.102")
(3462618667 :privmsg "jsnell" "Xof: what's the exact date of the sbcl birthday bash?" nil)
(3462618702 :privmsg "Xof" "14th-15th December" nil)
(3462618704 :join "schoppenhauer" nil "n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer")
(3462618724 :privmsg "Xof" "facilities can be made available for longer, but that's going to be the Event" nil)
(3462618733 :quit "schoppenhauer" "\"Verlassend\"" "n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer")
(3462618761 :join "sohail1" nil "n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com")
(3462618854 :quit "sohail" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail")
(3462618948 :join "schoppenhauer" nil "n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer")
(3462618959 :quit "anekos" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=anekos@pl716.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp")
(3462618965 :join "pepone" nil "n=pepone@91.117.11.105")
(3462618983 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Xof: I just walked into additional funds, so I'll try and confirm in the next couple weeks." nil)
(3462619006 :privmsg "Xof" "wow, cool, transatlanticism" nil)
(3462619046 :privmsg "Xof" "also, how do people walk into random additional funds?  My inquiring mind wants to know" nil)
(3462619085 :join "yango" nil "n=yango@unaffiliated/yango")
(3462619090 :privmsg "matimago" "You need to be in the right place." nil)
(3462619111 :privmsg "Xach" "become temporarily popular with french web teens" nil)
(3462619114 :privmsg "Xach" "(in my case)" nil)
(3462619117 :privmsg "matimago" "One where unassigned random funds may be met to become additionnal." nil)
(3462619144 :privmsg "Xach" "i will not be attending the birthday, though." nil)
(3462619146 :privmsg "matimago" "Why French only?" nil)
(3462619151 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Xof: some scholarship committee decided it'd be a good idea to wait 6 months between making their choices and publicising them." nil)
(3462619159 :join "sohail" nil "n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com")
(3462619167 :join "anekos" nil "n=anekos@pl712.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp")
(3462619172 :privmsg "Xach" "matimago: it is a mystery to me" nil)
(3462619266 :privmsg "wgl" "french web teens. Hmmm." nil)
(3462619299 :privmsg "matimago" "I've seen Flickr.com has something like your gadgets, to edit pictures." nil)
(3462619305 :nick "adlai" "Adlai" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462619339 :privmsg "Xach" "yes. there are several more popular tools." nil)
(3462619391 :privmsg "Xach" "zero of them are lisp-powered, however" nil)
(3462619409 :privmsg "matimago" "I wondered if you'd sold them some of yours..." nil)
(3462619430 :privmsg "schoppenhauer" "hello. i have a program running on petite chez scheme 7.3, but not on 7.9, probably due to differences between r5rs and r6rs. i cannot find an option to petite to run r5rs-compatible, nor can i find a download for an older version (7.3) of petite chez scheme. does anybody know more?" nil)
(3462619445 :privmsg "stassats`" "schoppenhauer: #scheme should know more" nil)
(3462619448 :privmsg "matimago" "scheme experts are on #scheme." nil)
(3462619452 :privmsg "Xach" "matimago: ah, yes. but generally to small-scale operators." nil)
(3462619454 :privmsg "schoppenhauer" "ok" nil)
(3462619455 :privmsg "schoppenhauer" "thx" nil)
(3462619471 :quit "sohail1" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com")
(3462619776 :privmsg "proun" "would someone mind looking at a snippet, i'm workinf with a c lib and i dont understand how to get a pointer" nil)
(3462619795 :privmsg "matimago" "lisppaste: url?" nil)
(3462619796 :privmsg "lisppaste" "To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste." nil)
(3462619834 :quit "Odin-" nil "n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is")
(3462619843 :privmsg "pkhuong" "matimago: lisppaste isn't quite working right now." nil)
(3462619848 :privmsg "lisppaste" "proun pasted \"cl-devil 1\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87502" nil)
(3462619868 :privmsg "proun" "based on this tutorial: http://gpwiki.org/index.php/DevIL:Tutorials:Basics" nil)
(3462619904 :privmsg "proun" "the function \"works\"m which is good. however when trying to delete the image at the end i can't get at it" nil)
(3462619977 :privmsg "proun" "il:gen-images retuns an image-id and what looks like a mem address in a list" nil)
(3462620070 :privmsg "matimago" "Yes, so there's no pointer, only a \"handle\"." nil)
(3462620084 :privmsg "matimago" "texid" nil)
(3462620102 :quit "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net")
(3462620120 :quit "coderdad" "Remote closed the connection" "n=coderdad@65.67.252.194")
(3462620141 :privmsg "proun" "ive tried giving it mt text id, but it complains about it not being a system-area-pointer" nil)
(3462620143 :join "coderdad" nil "n=coderdad@65.67.252.194")
(3462620146 :privmsg "matimago" "However these function take a pointer to an uint." nil)
(3462620211 :privmsg "matimago" "Sorry, but lisppaste doesn't work for me, I can't get your paste..." nil)
(3462620228 :privmsg "proun" "yeah it let me paste, now i cant see it" nil)
(3462620279 :privmsg "matimago" "We'll regretfully have to use pastebin.org..." nil)
(3462620297 :action "stassats`" "sees the paste, but doesn't know the answer" nil)
(3462620330 :privmsg "TDT" "I just see a blank white page :-/" nil)
(3462620341 :action "stassats`" "uses lisppaste.el" nil)
(3462620347 :quit "Davse_Bamse" "\"leaving\"" "n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk")
(3462620356 :privmsg "proun" "http://pastebin.com/m5ba21289" nil)
(3462620380 :quit "pr" "Remote closed the connection" "n=pr@unaffiliated/pr")
(3462620382 :privmsg "Adlai" "stassats`: lisppaste.el needs hacking" nil)
(3462620394 :join "ikki" nil "n=ikki@201.155.75.146")
(3462620408 :join "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net")
(3462620414 :privmsg "stassats`" "right, i can share my modified version" nil)
(3462620420 :join "coderdad_" nil "n=coderdad@65.67.252.194")
(3462620425 :quit "coderdad_" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=coderdad@65.67.252.194")
(3462620443 :join "coderdad_" nil "n=coderdad@65.67.252.194")
(3462620491 :privmsg "Adlai" "stassats`: what hacks have you made?" nil)
(3462620492 :quit "coderdad" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=coderdad@65.67.252.194")
(3462620501 :privmsg "stassats`" "i don't remember" nil)
(3462620519 :privmsg "Adlai" "my only complaints (so far) are that it doesn't let you set the expiration, and it doesn't let you select the syntax formatting" nil)
(3462620535 :quit "aaronfeng" nil "n=aaronfen@38.98.248.211")
(3462620537 :join "legumbre_" nil "n=user@r190-135-67-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy")
(3462620566 :privmsg "stassats`" "i only made it working for me, nothing additional" nil)
(3462620593 :privmsg "Adlai" "oh. It worked for me from the start... I'd like to add those features at some point, though, if I can suppress the gag reflex to write the elisp." nil)
(3462620613 :privmsg "TDT" "What does lisppaste.el do? I mean, just read or read and write to the pastie?" nil)
(3462620620 :privmsg "stassats`" "it's ok, once you (require 'cl)" nil)
(3462620633 :privmsg "stassats`" "TDT: yes, basically" nil)
(3462620682 :join "marioxcc" nil "n=user@200.92.170.129")
(3462620703 :privmsg "TDT" "That's pretty cool - hah, wow I didn't know there was a cl module for emacs, I thought one had to run everything through slime or something." nil)
(3462620740 :privmsg "Xach" "TDT: it adds CL-like functions and operators to elisp. it's not \"real\" cl." nil)
(3462620744 :privmsg "matimago" "proun: have a look at with-images in utilities.lisp" nil)
(3462620759 :privmsg "matimago" "proun: instead of using gen-images...delete-images, use with-images." nil)
(3462620796 :privmsg "TDT" "Xach: Ah, so stuff from asdf probably wouldn't work then I'm assuming?" nil)
(3462620827 :privmsg "stassats`" "certainly wouldn't" nil)
(3462620828 :privmsg "proun" "matimago: i'll look at it further, initially i was having problems with giving it the proper args, ill try angain" nil)
(3462620838 :join "tmh" nil "n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh")
(3462620855 :privmsg "tmh" "Greetings." nil)
(3462620856 :privmsg "matimago" "proun: to give a proper argument to delete-image, you will have to use CFFI.  Have a look at with-images to see how." nil)
(3462620862 :privmsg "tmh" "Where in the world is cl-pipes?" nil)
(3462620876 :privmsg "kami-" "levy, attila_lendvai: would you mind moving the key bindings out of dwim-init.el into some other file which is loaded conditionally?" nil)
(3462620878 :privmsg "TDT" "That's unfortunate then.  I was hoping I could get by needing to learn elisp for stuff, and continue work on CL :)" nil)
(3462620886 :privmsg "Xach" "TDT: no, not at all. it's a facsimile of CL, not a real CL environment." nil)
(3462620904 :privmsg "proun" "matimago: i see, thanks - i'll look at the further" nil)
(3462620914 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "kami-: sounds reasonable, will do" nil)
(3462620933 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, not at all" nil)
(3462620943 :privmsg "kami-" "attila_lendvai: I could do that, too. And send in a patch." nil)
(3462620957 :privmsg "stassats`" "TDT: if you know CL, learning elisp is not a problem" nil)
(3462620969 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "kami-: i have a sketch how to do it, i'll do it soon" nil)
(3462620999 :privmsg "TDT" "stassats`: elisp so far hasn't been, it's just another thing I'm messing with...so far the differences aren't extreme, well minus the way the format statement is done, and the new functions available but yeah." nil)
(3462621042 :privmsg "kami-" "attila_lendvai: OK. Thank you." nil)
(3462621120 :quit "kami-" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@unaffiliated/kami-")
(3462621126 :privmsg "matimago" "TDT: you could launch emacs-cl which is a CL implementatin written in emacs lisp.  It would allow you to write emacs stuff in Common Lisp.  But it's not a full CL implementation (just a big subset), and you would have to know well emacs lisp as well as Common Lisp to really make use of it..." nil)
(3462621278 :privmsg "tmh" "Hmmm, cl-pipes is not what I thought it was. Can anyone suggest an abstraction layer run-program?" nil)
(3462621280 :join "ejs" nil "n=eugen@31-54-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net")
(3462621289 :join "mcspiff" nil "n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net")
(3462621330 :quit "qebab" "Remote closed the connection" "i=finnrobi@gaupe.stud.ntnu.no")
(3462621362 :privmsg "pkhuong" "tmh: external-program (see cliki, minion seems to me having trouble connecting)" nil)
(3462621363 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "tmh: external-program" nil)
(3462621366 :privmsg "TDT" "matimago: That's pretty cool, but I think I'll just keep them in their needed areas - elisp is great for some stuff cl for others..and doesn't hurt for me to know both really well eventually :)  I can also look into slime and see if there's a godo way to load that automatically in the background, and pass stuff to it as I need to run something from CL (if that ever needs to happen)" nil)
(3462621381 :privmsg "tmh" "Thanks, will look into it." nil)
(3462621410 :quit "legumbre" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=user@r190-135-25-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy")
(3462621415 :privmsg "ljames" "maybe offtopic question, but I'm curious if McCLIM has a certain feature similar to SLIME's presentations, which apparently originated on the Genera OS, where you could move your mouse over an object, and it would highlight it, from there you could copy/inspect/manipulate that object in various ways(at least the object that is EQ to that \"presentation\"). I tried McCLIM the other day, but the backend I was using was a bit buggy, so I have no idea if this feat" nil)
(3462621417 :privmsg "matimago" "TDT: an alternative would be to use climacs." nil)
(3462621425 :privmsg "matimago" "TDT: then you'd be 100% CL." nil)
(3462621448 :privmsg "matimago" "ljames: yes, McCLIM and CLIM have presentations." nil)
(3462621448 :privmsg "stassats`" "ljames: it does have presentations" nil)
(3462621465 :privmsg "stassats`" "what backend were you using?" nil)
(3462621466 :privmsg "ljames" "ah, so I guess I just need to use a better backend to see them?" nil)
(3462621488 :privmsg "Athas" "There's no default command to inspect arbitrary presentations." nil)
(3462621495 :privmsg "ljames" "I tried CLX, but I used a Windows X server(XMing), I should try it on a real Unix-like OS instead." nil)
(3462621502 :privmsg "stassats`" "there's only one backend actually usable, no much choice" nil)
(3462621533 :privmsg "TDT" "matimago: Hmm, hah, that's an idea, I haven't used that yet...I do enjoy emacs quite a bit, but for compare and contrast, I could see it beneficial to try both." nil)
(3462621559 :privmsg "Athas" "Climacs is different in many ways... it's more like Zmacs than GNU Emacs." nil)
(3462621602 :privmsg "matimago" "But can anybody be considered a CL hacker if he keeps using GNU emacs?" nil)
(3462621606 :privmsg "Adlai" "Any vi users use viper-mode + slime?" nil)
(3462621618 :privmsg "tmh" "Am I a bad person if I refuse to use external-program because it is LGPL?" nil)
(3462621626 :privmsg "Athas" "Considering the incompleteness of Climacs..." nil)
(3462621631 :action "Adlai" "had to use vi for a bit to edit config files while reinstalling his system, and might just have been tempted over to the dark side..." nil)
(3462621643 :privmsg "sellout" "tmh: It's llgpl, no?" nil)
(3462621644 :privmsg "matimago" "The point!  Let's use it, to contribute!" nil)
(3462621660 :privmsg "sellout" "I don't care too much about licensing ... that just seemed like the lispy one." nil)
(3462621702 :privmsg "tmh" "sellout: Hmm, the source says LLGPL, but the LICENSE file is LGPL" nil)
(3462621740 :privmsg "TDT" "What was the purpose of the creation of climacs? I mean, so far it looks much like an emacs clone, and just written in CL.  is there another reason why it was created?" nil)
(3462621768 :privmsg "matimago" "No, that's the point." nil)
(3462621773 :privmsg "sellout" "tmh: Just added a task to fix that." nil)
(3462621775 :privmsg "matimago" "There are problems with emacs lisp." nil)
(3462621802 :join "okflo" nil "n=user@91-115-87-151.adsl.highway.telekom.at")
(3462621805 :privmsg "stassats`" "and emacs-framework" nil)
(3462621819 :join "wasabi" nil "n=wasabi@nttkyo713154.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462621824 :privmsg "pkhuong" "TDT: you get tighter (currently too tight maybe) integration." nil)
(3462621827 :privmsg "matimago" "TDT: eg. there's no threads, no packages, emacs lisp \"packages\" are of uneven quality (you can easily find 500-line long unreadable emacs lisp 'functions'...), etc." nil)
(3462621839 :privmsg "Athas" "Climacs was written to be an editor for a CLIM environment." nil)
(3462621839 :privmsg "tmh" "sellout: So what does LLGPL obligate me to? I'd be using this with closed source software." nil)
(3462621846 :quit "wasabi" "Client Quit" "n=wasabi@nttkyo713154.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462621850 :privmsg "matimago" "TDT: the only advantage of GNU emacs, is that it's at version 23, and there's a lot of tools built upon it." nil)
(3462621863 :quit "wchogg" "Connection timed out" "n=wchogg@71-34-77-216.ptld.qwest.net")
(3462621874 :privmsg "sellout" "tmh: I think you can ... *shrug*" nil)
(3462621884 :privmsg "matimago" "tmh: You would have to give the sources of the libraries, and allow the user to replace these libraries by their own, in your program." nil)
(3462621884 :privmsg "pkhuong" "tmh: in spirit, nothing as long as you don't modify the library itself." nil)
(3462621890 :join "wasabi" nil "n=wasabi@nttkyo713154.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462621897 :join "pam0" nil "n=pam@mail2.siscog.pt")
(3462621900 :join "gigamonkey" nil "n=user@adsl-99-58-28-152.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net")
(3462621906 :privmsg "pam0" "hi" nil)
(3462621911 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "drewc: herep" nil)
(3462621914 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "hi pam0" nil)
(3462621940 :privmsg "tmh" "matimago: Heh, my user would probably be like, \"WTF am I supposed to do with this?\", referring to the sources." nil)
(3462621962 :privmsg "TDT" "matimago: Yeah, emacs being at 23 does have some advantages and all that too." nil)
(3462621973 :privmsg "tmh" "pkhuong: I have no problem contributing back my modifications, so that's ok." nil)
(3462621975 :quit "blandest" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@85.204.33.242")
(3462622039 :privmsg "tmh" "sellout: I'm assuming you are Greg Pfeil?" nil)
(3462622047 :privmsg "sellout" "tmh: Yep" nil)
(3462622053 :quit "dwh" "Connection timed out" "n=dwh@ppp118-208-171-218.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net")
(3462622062 :privmsg "matimago" "tmh: users may need education." nil)
(3462622077 :privmsg "pam0" "i'm doing a nthcdr setf expander, and my question is: should i just to as i would for a car setf expander, where in the reader form i'll call nthcdr all the way, or should i store a variable with the cons in question and just return its cdr in the reader form?" nil)
(3462622095 :privmsg "tmh" "sellout: Firefox won't load blog.technomadic.org, reprots it as an 'attack site'. What are you trying to push? ;-)" nil)
(3462622103 :privmsg "sellout" "Ah, crap." nil)
(3462622111 :privmsg "sellout" "Old WordPress ... hooray." nil)
(3462622123 :privmsg "sellout" "I should just move to wp.com" nil)
(3462622125 :privmsg "pam0" "my question is only pertinent if the value form changes place somehow, because if it does not, storing the cons seems like a nice optimization" nil)
(3462622168 :privmsg "proun" "i had luck with tumblr, you can at least change your css there" nil)
(3462622173 :join "milanj" nil "n=milan@79.101.79.143")
(3462622205 :privmsg "pam0" "gigamonkey: are you peter seibel?" nil)
(3462622250 :privmsg "Athas" "Other way around." nil)
(3462622264 :privmsg "matimago" "pam0: there are several implementations of (setf nthcdr) and associated discussions on cll.  Have a look at google groups." nil)
(3462622283 :privmsg "pam0" "matimago: i will, thanks" nil)
(3462622350 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "pam0: yes." nil)
(3462622434 :privmsg "pam0" "ok, i just thought that i can peek at what implementations do for nth, i'll follow this lead because the groups only post questions i already had and don't answer mine (at least at first sight)" nil)
(3462622482 :quit "schoppenhauer" "Remote closed the connection" "n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer")
(3462622516 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "gigamonkey: btw, Amazon says that I'm suppose to receive C@W around November" nil)
(3462622520 :privmsg "matimago" "pam0: ISTM that you have cases where you want to modify the place: (let ((list '())) (setf (nthcdr 0 list) (cons 1 2)) list)" nil)
(3462622532 :privmsg "Adlai" "fe[nl]ix: I'm luckier than you, only mid-october :(" nil)
(3462622554 :privmsg "tmh" "One of my filthy in-laws spilled a soda on my copy of C@W." nil)
(3462622561 :quit "trebor_dki" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de")
(3462622626 :privmsg "Adlai" "tmh: death to the infidels!" nil)
(3462622648 :action "tmh" "chuckles" nil)
(3462622676 :privmsg "pam0" "matimago: my problem is not the (setf (nthcdr 0 <place>) <value>) case" nil)
(3462622698 :quit "mcspiff" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net")
(3462622735 :privmsg "tmh" "I think it's funny that gigamonkey already had to post a clarification of the JWZ interview. As I read these interviews, it's fairly obvious that they are casual recollections and there is probably a fair amount of error and a little exaggeration." nil)
(3462622738 :privmsg "pam0" "my problem/question is if i should optimize when n > 0 to store the cons so that, for instance (incf (nthcdr n <place>)) would be faster" nil)
(3462622845 :privmsg "tmh" "sellout: Ok, I *got* a copy of the repository. That should help me send any patches." nil)
(3462622845 :privmsg "pam0" "let's ignore the n=0 case, and let's take the first approach where my writer form is `(progn (rplacd (nthcdr (1- ,v-n) ,reader-form)) ,(first store-vars)) ,(first store-vars)) and my reader-form is `(nthcdr ,v-n ,reader-form)" nil)
(3462622864 :privmsg "pam0" "the incf case will be slow for big values of n" nil)
(3462622869 :privmsg "sellout" "tmh: Sorry for the hassle" nil)
(3462622873 :privmsg "pam0" "in fact, any setf will be slow" nil)
(3462622907 :privmsg "tmh" "sellout: NP, there are some weird characters in your site file index.html and docs.html is not in the repository." nil)
(3462622929 :privmsg "matimago" "Oh! Sure, you can add variables and cache the cdr you need." nil)
(3462622932 :privmsg "tmh" "sellout: I realize these are tangential issues, but I'm wondering if they are intentional" nil)
(3462622944 :privmsg "pam0" "so i added a variable, v-cons, to the list of variables of the setf expander, its form is `(nthcdr (1- ,v-n) ,reader-form), then both the reader and the writer form would use cdr instead of nthcdr" nil)
(3462622952 :quit "aerique" "\"...\"" "i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl")
(3462622963 :privmsg "pam0" "matimago: i know i can, i wounder if i should" nil)
(3462622965 :privmsg "matimago" "pam0: yes, that's good." nil)
(3462623000 :quit "gz_" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com")
(3462623034 :privmsg "pam0" "(setf (nthcdr 10 list) (progn (setf (nthcdr 5 list) some-other-list) yet-another-list)" nil)
(3462623040 :privmsg "matimago" "pam0: that's a case where you need to use define-setf-expander, and not the simplier defsetf, etc." nil)
(3462623043 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "tmh: Yeah. I certainly didn't try to idependently fact check anything my subjects said." nil)
(3462623075 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "fe[nl]ix: Amazon has certainly told some people that they're not shipping until some very distant date and then ended up shipping the next day." nil)
(3462623082 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "So it might not really be November." nil)
(3462623083 :privmsg "pam0" "but you see, in this last form i gave you (don't mind the free variables and unmatched parenthesis), this get weird..." nil)
(3462623100 :privmsg "pkhuong" "pam0: what should (let ((x '())) (setf (nthcdr 10 x) t)) do?" nil)
(3462623125 :privmsg "sellout" "tmh: Not intentional ... but I think maybe I generated the doc file programmatically, and the index.html ... maybe the encoding's wrong? I think it should all be UTF-8" nil)
(3462623134 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "gigamonkey: Amazon claims to have shipped the book. it will only take 4-5 weeks to get here" nil)
(3462623135 :privmsg "pam0" "it'll error because rplacd nil" nil)
(3462623142 :privmsg "tmh" "sellout: Ok" nil)
(3462623145 :privmsg "pam0" "(at least my implementation)" nil)
(3462623167 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "fe[nl]ix: where are you, the moon?!" nil)
(3462623167 :join "_jason9401" nil "n=thot@59.105.27.43")
(3462623169 :privmsg "matimago" "Well, I think you cannot use the store variables returned by define-setf-expander." nil)
(3462623175 :privmsg "matimago" "Those are used for multiple-value storing." nil)
(3462623185 :privmsg "matimago" "But you can perfectly cache the cons cell internally." nil)
(3462623193 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "gigamonkey: Italy. and Adlai is in Israel(IIRC)" nil)
(3462623195 :join "LiamH" nil "n=none@common-lisp.net")
(3462623209 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "And ordering from amazon.com or one of the other amazons?" nil)
(3462623223 :join "gz_" nil "n=gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462623223 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "(Weren't you the one ordering from amazon.uk?)" nil)
(3462623243 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "gigamonkey: I ordered it from .com" nil)
(3462623257 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "And is it going my mail or UPS?" nil)
(3462623266 :privmsg "okflo" "fe[nl]ix, gigamonkey: funny, I have received C@W yesterday, here in Austria. (will start reading at the weekend... :) )" nil)
(3462623299 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "Strangely enough, the first person who reported getting copies of C@W was Joe Armstrong, my farthest flung interviewee." nil)
(3462623306 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "gigamonkey: \"Standard International Shipping\", whatever that means" nil)
(3462623308 :quit "sohail" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail")
(3462623328 :privmsg "okflo" "ordered via amazon.at" nil)
(3462623329 :privmsg "Adlai" "gigamonkey: I ordered from .uk" nil)
(3462623356 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "lol" nil)
(3462623366 :join "coliv" nil "n=Coliveir@12.15.114.194")
(3462623382 :join "sohail" nil "n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com")
(3462623403 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "So does anyone here know anything more about http://wiki.alu.org/ALU%20Wiki%20Rescue%202009 than what it says on that page?" nil)
(3462623415 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "I.e. the snarky, gossipy version." nil)
(3462623532 :privmsg "matimago" "pam0: assume you write a macro such as: (do-a-complex-modification-on-f (nthcdr n l) (lambda (old-value) (setf l (list 1)) (1+ old-value))) ; it will call get-setf-expansion for nthcdr, and use the read form to get the value to pass to old-value, and the write form to store the result.   Do you want a cached value or do you want to use the new list?" nil)
(3462623535 :nick "Adlai" "Adlai`" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462623588 :join "Fare" nil "n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com")
(3462623642 :join "Adlai" nil "n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462623691 :quit "Adlai`" "Nick collision from services." "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462623713 :join "Adlai`" nil "n=adlai@93-173-140-203.bb.netvision.net.il")
(3462623731 :quit "Adlai`" "Nick collision from services." "n=adlai@93-173-140-203.bb.netvision.net.il")
(3462623754 :privmsg "lisppaste" "pam0 pasted \"nthcdr setf example\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87511" nil)
(3462623771 :privmsg "pam0" "matimago: let me give you an example (hope this gets well pasted)" nil)
(3462623808 :privmsg "pam0" "matimago: that's the question :) cached value vs fresh list... what is the \"proper\" way?" nil)
(3462623898 :privmsg "pam0" "somehow, i cannot see pastes in paste.lisp.org..." nil)
(3462623903 :privmsg "matimago" "Sorry, there's still a problem with lisppaste, I only get a white page." nil)
(3462623908 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "Is drewc running the ALU wiki now?" nil)
(3462623914 :privmsg "matimago" "there's pastebin.org in the mean time." nil)
(3462623961 :action "Adlai" "neither" nil)
(3462623968 :join "mstevens" nil "n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org")
(3462623998 :privmsg "pam0" "http://lisp.pastebin.com/m7cf5a9fb" nil)
(3462624004 :quit "cornucopic" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=r00t@202.3.77.134")
(3462624065 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462624090 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462624176 :privmsg "pam0" "is there any similar issue in the common-lisp specification? like in the setf of getf?" nil)
(3462624179 :part "_jason9401" nil "n=thot@59.105.27.43")
(3462624218 :join "quek" nil "n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net")
(3462624239 :nick "marioxcc" "marioxcc-AFK" "n=user@200.92.170.129")
(3462624288 :privmsg "matimago" "pam0: perhaps it's similar to: (macroexpand ' (incf (aref v 4) (progn (setf (aref v 4) 0) 10)))" nil)
(3462624302 :quit "thehcdreamer" nil "n=thehcdre@81-174-49-12.dynamic.ngi.it")
(3462624306 :privmsg "matimago" "clisp -> (LET* ((#1=#:G98397 V) (#2=#:G98398 4) (#3=#:G98400 (PROGN (SETF (AREF V 4) 0) 10)) (#4=#:G98399 (+ (AREF #1# #2#) #3#))) (SYSTEM::STORE #1# #2# #4#)) ;" nil)
(3462624308 :privmsg "pam0" "for instance, should the setf of getf cache or not? or is it unspecified it it must or must not be, and as such non-portable code should be avoided?" nil)
(3462624328 :privmsg "pam0" "yes, good example" nil)
(3462624334 :quit "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net")
(3462624345 :privmsg "matimago" "pam0: it seems to me that, given the definition of define-setf-expander, they don't cache and are not meant to." nil)
(3462624392 :privmsg "matimago" "I already envisaged to cache, but we must ensure that it doesn't change the semantics." nil)
(3462624488 :privmsg "pam0" "that's good thinking" nil)
(3462624494 :privmsg "wgl" "It would appear that chandler (or is it Superchandler) has fixed paste.lisp.org" nil)
(3462624512 :privmsg "pam0" "but the aref example would, at most, cache the value stored at the array position to later increment" nil)
(3462624525 :quit "fe[nl]ix" "\"Valete!\"" "n=algidus@89.202.147.23")
(3462624528 :action "mathrick" "discovers that ABCL and SBCL are just one key away from each other" nil)
(3462624532 :privmsg "pam0" "i don't want to do that, but something in between: cache the changeable cons" nil)
(3462624541 :privmsg "matimago" "pam0: Reading this expansion of aref, it seems to me that you could have indeed one variable holding the cons cell to me read or written." nil)
(3462624547 :privmsg "pam0" "but as you just pointed out, it's better to not change semantics" nil)
(3462624557 :action "Adlai" "discovers that mathrick types QWERTY" nil)
(3462624564 :privmsg "housel" "mathrick: surely dbcl is next" nil)
(3462624581 :privmsg "stassats`" "minion: what does DBCL stand for?" nil)
(3462624581 :privmsg "minion" "Disequalizer Bromocamphor Common Lisp" nil)
(3462624592 :privmsg "housel" "works for me" nil)
(3462624597 :privmsg "pkhuong" "housel: [caps]BCL to continue linear the progression." nil)
(3462624609 :privmsg "pkhuong" "*the linear progression" nil)
(3462624638 :privmsg "Adlai" "pkhuong: so just BCL, except you have to shout it?" nil)
(3462624647 :privmsg "mathrick" "Adlai: obviously, do you take me for some kind of idiot?" nil)
(3462624658 :privmsg "Adlai" "minion: what does BCL stand for?" nil)
(3462624659 :privmsg "minion" "Bostangi Common Lisp" nil)
(3462624662 :privmsg "mathrick" "stassats`: Deliberately Broken CL?" nil)
(3462624671 :privmsg "mathrick" "minion: what does BCL stand for?" nil)
(3462624671 :privmsg "minion" "Bicarpellate Common Lisp" nil)
(3462624681 :privmsg "mathrick" "interesting" nil)
(3462624683 :action "Adlai" "types his own mangled Dvorak" nil)
(3462624693 :privmsg "Adlai" "minion: what does qwerty stand for?" nil)
(3462624693 :privmsg "minion" "Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 35 seconds is too many." nil)
(3462624713 :action "Adlai" "only wants to be your friend, minion ... :(" nil)
(3462624734 :privmsg "stassats`" "minion: minion?" nil)
(3462624740 :privmsg "minion" "minion: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462624741 :quit "mvilleneuve" "\"Lost terminal\"" "n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462624751 :privmsg "stassats`" "still doesn't work" nil)
(3462624809 :join "HET3" nil "n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk")
(3462624855 :privmsg "tic" "Adlai, svorak for great justice." nil)
(3462624862 :quit "slyrus_" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-215-89.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net")
(3462624899 :quit "robyonrails" "\"Sto andando via\"" "n=roby@host197-20-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it")
(3462624905 :privmsg "pam0" "ok, i'll make it not caching the cons to keep consistency" nil)
(3462624924 :privmsg "pam0" "(although i was more wishing that the standard did allow these cases...)" nil)
(3462624957 :privmsg "matimago" "pam0: it's not obvious.  Reading CLHS, we could consider that the variables and value forms could be used to keep the cons." nil)
(3462624965 :privmsg "matimago" "We could specify that (setf (nthcdr (incf i) list) (list 1 2 3)) <=> (let ((c (nthcdr (1- (incf i)) list))) (setf (cdr c) (list 1 2 3)))" nil)
(3462624996 :privmsg "Adlai" "tic: what's svorak?" nil)
(3462625030 :privmsg "tic" "Adlai, (a) swedish variation of Dvorak." nil)
(3462625103 :privmsg "matimago" "I'd like a pjborak..." nil)
(3462625157 :privmsg "drewc" "gigamonkey: yeah, alu wiki is mine" nil)
(3462625172 :privmsg "pam0" "matimago: you're right once again :) it depends on specification. and since this is local, i can specify it a will" nil)
(3462625202 :join "mcdonji" nil "n=mcdonji@70.75.0.48")
(3462625256 :quit "HET2" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk")
(3462625266 :action "Adlai" "uses \"clorak\"" nil)
(3462625289 :privmsg "mathrick" "Adlai: dvorak is stupid stupid stupid" nil)
(3462625297 :privmsg "mathrick" "snake oil for techies with too much time" nil)
(3462625300 :privmsg "tic" "dvorak is yummie. my wrists loves it." nil)
(3462625311 :privmsg "mathrick" "tic: we've had that discussion :)" nil)
(3462625315 :privmsg "tic" "also, I've customized it a lot to avoid the silly placement of the original svorak keys." nil)
(3462625317 :privmsg "tic" "yup." nil)
(3462625337 :join "jkantz" nil "n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com")
(3462625368 :action "Adlai" "votes for dvorak" nil)
(3462625380 :privmsg "pam0" "man this setf expansion thing for be has been more eye opening than all the rest of lisp, it's like i understand every macro and definition" nil)
(3462625393 :action "stassats`" "votes for " nil)
(3462625393 :privmsg "Xof" "that will pass" nil)
(3462625397 :join "salva" nil "n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com")
(3462625443 :privmsg "Fare" "pam0: try some macro-defining-macro-defining-macro-defining-macro sometime. With a few gensyms." nil)
(3462625454 :privmsg "pam0" "still, not quite the feeling i had when i understood full continuations (no trolling/discussion intended)" nil)
(3462625471 :privmsg "Fare" "go read some oleg k..." nil)
(3462625490 :privmsg "pam0" "Fare: i'm used to it, and to metaclasses, etc." nil)
(3462625505 :privmsg "pam0" "i was more interested in semantics here than details" nil)
(3462625538 :privmsg "arbscht" "drewc: we're interested in reinstating a cl-gardeners page on the alu wiki.  is that possible?  (the wayback machine has some of it, but perhaps new content is warranted anyway)" nil)
(3462625580 :quit "silenius" "Remote closed the connection" "n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net")
(3462625586 :quit "ignas_" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt")
(3462625636 :privmsg "pam0" "matimago: thanks for the enlightenment chat :)" nil)
(3462625644 :privmsg "matimago" "You're welcome." nil)
(3462625665 :privmsg "pam0" "gigamonkey: that's quite a good book you have there online, that's the one i personally recommend to people new to or not so new to lisp" nil)
(3462625805 :privmsg "pam0" "bye" nil)
(3462625807 :quit "pam0" "\"Java user signed off\"" "n=pam@mail2.siscog.pt")
(3462625813 :join "cornucopic" nil "n=r00t@202.3.77.134")
(3462625987 :nick "marioxcc-AFK" "marioxcc" "n=user@200.92.170.129")
(3462626036 :join "Makoryu" nil "n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net")
(3462626107 :quit "ruediger" "\"Leaving\"" "n=ruediger@188-23-71-12.adsl.highway.telekom.at")
(3462626124 :join "lexa_" nil "n=lexa_@seonet.ru")
(3462626147 :nick "lexa_" "Guest12177" "n=lexa_@seonet.ru")
(3462626162 :join "thehcdreamer" nil "n=thehcdre@93.37.245.66")
(3462626180 :quit "whartung" "Remote closed the connection" "n=willh@207.38.40.1")
(3462626183 :part "quek" nil "n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net")
(3462626188 :quit "thehcdreamer" "Client Quit" "n=thehcdre@93.37.245.66")
(3462626300 :quit "djkthx" "\"Lost terminal\"" "n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu")
(3462626340 :join "whartung" nil "n=willh@207.38.40.1")
(3462626404 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462626416 :join "KingNatoG5_" nil "n=patrik@84-217-14-211.tn.glocalnet.net")
(3462626571 :quit "sellout" nil "n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462626583 :join "smolyn" nil "n=smolyn@76.77.66.100")
(3462626585 :join "phf" nil "n=user@146.145.38.2")
(3462626622 :quit "mstevens" "\"leaving\"" "n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org")
(3462626888 :join "Alabaman" nil "n=badgerfa@78-69-144-82-no19.tbcn.telia.com")
(3462626927 :join "mrsolo" nil "n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bxbutpkmofsmullq")
(3462627207 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462627212 :join "tcr" nil "n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de")
(3462627219 :quit "jhalogen" nil "n=jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com")
(3462627228 :privmsg "madnificent" "hello Adlai" nil)
(3462627229 :quit "Ralith" "Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=ralith@69.90.48.127")
(3462627254 :join "dandersen" nil "n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen")
(3462627269 :join "Ralith" nil "n=ralith@69.90.48.127")
(3462627295 :join "sellout" nil "n=greg@pool-129-44-178-240.bos.east.verizon.net")
(3462627325 :quit "KingNatoG5" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=patrik@84-217-15-39.tn.glocalnet.net")
(3462627326 :nick "KingNatoG5_" "KingNatoG5" "n=patrik@84-217-14-211.tn.glocalnet.net")
(3462627367 :join "djkthx" nil "n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu")
(3462627468 :quit "Tek3|Eregrith" "\"( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )\"" "n=nnscript@sd-16241.dedibox.fr")
(3462627470 :join "jhalogen" nil "n=jake@98.154.251.83")
(3462627528 :quit "ASau" "\"restart\"" "n=user@83.69.227.19")
(3462627584 :join "Adlai`" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462627586 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462627599 :join "saikat_" nil "n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net")
(3462627706 :join "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net")
(3462627787 :quit "hypno" "\"leaving\"" "n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com")
(3462627802 :quit "jhalogen" nil "n=jake@98.154.251.83")
(3462627868 :quit "seisatsu" "\"Ex-Chat\"" "n=seisatsu@63.198.106.143")
(3462628050 :join "ASau" nil "n=user@83.69.227.19")
(3462628091 :join "dkcl`" nil "n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen")
(3462628120 :quit "dandersen" "Nick collision from services." "n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen")
(3462628125 :nick "dkcl`" "dandersen" "n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen")
(3462628322 :privmsg "drewc" "arbscht: it's a wiki, go nuts." nil)
(3462628366 :quit "Adlai`" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462628387 :privmsg "Xach" "drewwwwwc!" nil)
(3462628393 :join "Adlai" nil "n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462628402 :join "torbo" nil "n=torbo@c-0f5fe353.732-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se")
(3462628409 :privmsg "drewc" "Mr Xach, getting to your email right now." nil)
(3462628438 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "drewc: so do you know anything more about why the old ALU Wiki just went poof!" nil)
(3462628547 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462628565 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462628654 :privmsg "drewc" "gigamonkey: all i know is that Carl Shapiro disappeared and took the old wiki with him." nil)
(3462628673 :privmsg "Xach" "maybe hired by microsoft to finish up cmucl/win32?" nil)
(3462628680 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "I think he went to Google." nil)
(3462628689 :quit "envi^home" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=envi@220.121.234.156")
(3462628725 :join "Tordek_" nil "n=tordek@host65.190-228-244.telecom.net.ar")
(3462628726 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "He was at Franz briefly and then Google kept after him and got him to jump, is what I heard." nil)
(3462628754 :quit "matley" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it")
(3462628858 :privmsg "foom" "did anyone ask him if he could provide the contents of the old wiki?" nil)
(3462628864 :privmsg "lukego" "there are two bigshot computer guys called carl shapiro, right?" nil)
(3462628874 :join "spilman" nil "n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-136.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462628946 :privmsg "Xach" "google suggests there are a lot of people in general named carl shapiro" nil)
(3462628952 :privmsg "drewc" "foom: we tried to contact him for quite a while, but all attempts were met with no response." nil)
(3462629007 :privmsg "foom" "that's rather rude." nil)
(3462629011 :privmsg "foom" "ah well." nil)
(3462629021 :privmsg "Xof" "hi lukego" nil)
(3462629029 :privmsg "Xof" "what are you doing hanging around in these parts?" nil)
(3462629046 :privmsg "Makoryu" "drewc: Perhaps he's under an NLCA?" nil)
(3462629089 :join "Summermute" nil "n=scott@68.34.67.216")
(3462629100 :privmsg "lukego" "Xof: I came for some highly off-topic reason and just got comfy. :)" nil)
(3462629133 :privmsg "lukego" "Xach: one carl shaprio is an OS hacker at microsoft and is famous for orthogonally-persistent operating systems. I think he's much older than the guy who talked about porting cmucl to win32" nil)
(3462629243 :quit "Ralith" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=ralith@69.90.48.127")
(3462629654 :quit "Fare" "\"Leaving\"" "n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com")
(3462629691 :quit "Tordek" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=tordek@host191.190-227-45.telecom.net.ar")
(3462629766 :join "nha" nil "n=prefect@17-70.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch")
(3462629836 :privmsg "drewc" "Xach: will be live in 3571 seconds" nil)
(3462629846 :privmsg "drewc" "Xach: (the cname that is)" nil)
(3462629856 :join "pr" nil "n=pr@unaffiliated/pr")
(3462629878 :privmsg "Xach" "thanks" nil)
(3462629913 :join "jhalogen" nil "n=jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com")
(3462630175 :quit "Reav__" "Connection timed out" "n=Reaver@212.88.117.162")
(3462630487 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462630504 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462630670 :quit "gz_" nil "n=gz@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462630688 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462630704 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462630821 :quit "sellout" nil "n=greg@pool-129-44-178-240.bos.east.verizon.net")
(3462630856 :nick "Tordek_" "Tordek" "n=tordek@host65.190-228-244.telecom.net.ar")
(3462630866 :join "fxr" nil "n=user@213.232.33.243")
(3462630906 :privmsg "levy" "is it possible to get only a subdirectory of a git repository somehow?" nil)
(3462630963 :part "Guest12177" nil "n=lexa_@seonet.ru")
(3462630975 :quit "davazp" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net")
(3462631011 :join "Fare" nil "n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com")
(3462631026 :join "lhz" nil "n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se")
(3462631071 :join "slash_" nil "n=Unknown@p4FF0AF7C.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3462631103 :privmsg "sykopomp" "levy: I believe the way git works makes that impossible." nil)
(3462631107 :privmsg "sykopomp" "but you can have subprojects." nil)
(3462631108 :quit "majhool" "\"!\"" "n=mrw@user-118bgr6.cable.mindspring.com")
(3462631126 :join "lispm" nil "n=joswig@e177125061.adsl.alicedsl.de")
(3462631180 :privmsg "levy" "sykopomp, thx, but it's not my repo" nil)
(3462631184 :privmsg "levy" "its gitweb in git" nil)
(3462631190 :privmsg "levy" "but the git repo is huge" nil)
(3462631240 :privmsg "sykopomp" "yeah, I think you're pretty much stuck pulling in the whole thing." nil)
(3462631278 :privmsg "sykopomp" "if you don't care about having the directory under source control, though, you can just grab the files." nil)
(3462631429 :join "SandGorgon" nil "n=OmNomNom@122.161.47.221")
(3462631451 :action "Xach" "does some blog churn on planet lisp" nil)
(3462631466 :quit "saikat_" nil "n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net")
(3462631482 :join "dstatyvka" nil "i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua")
(3462631511 :action "tcr" "feels lucky that it has been a blogful month for him" nil)
(3462631551 :quit "Summermute" "Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)" "n=scott@68.34.67.216")
(3462631569 :privmsg "younder" "with the newest update crome now has working plugins" nil)
(3462631685 :quit "wasabi" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=wasabi@nttkyo713154.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462631690 :nick "legumbre_" "legumbre" "n=user@r190-135-67-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy")
(3462631690 :privmsg "younder" "Chrome that is" nil)
(3462631698 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462631715 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462631752 :join "grouzen" nil "n=grouzen@91.214.124.2")
(3462631760 :join "kami-" nil "n=user@unaffiliated/kami-")
(3462631766 :privmsg "kami-" "good evening" nil)
(3462631872 :quit "Levenson" "Remote closed the connection" "n=Levenson@92.46.86.248")
(3462631901 :join "eal" nil "n=user@c83-250-155-194.bredband.comhem.se")
(3462631937 :quit "mcdonji" "Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)" "n=mcdonji@70.75.0.48")
(3462631984 :quit "SandGorgon" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=OmNomNom@122.161.47.221")
(3462632099 :quit "djkthx" "Remote closed the connection" "n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu")
(3462632134 :quit "spilman" "Connection timed out" "n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-136.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462632169 :join "spilman" nil "n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-98-108.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462632215 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, hi" nil)
(3462632562 :quit "grouzen" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=grouzen@91.214.124.2")
(3462632620 :quit "spilman" "\"Quitte\"" "n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-98-108.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462632647 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: I'm trying to build hu.dwim.home and get \"The name \"HU.DWIM.DELICO\" does not designate any package.\" while compiling engine.lisp. Does that sound familiar?" nil)
(3462632652 :join "okflo`" nil "n=user@91-115-91-104.adsl.highway.telekom.at")
(3462632682 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, yes and it has been fixed" nil)
(3462632687 :join "grouzen" nil "n=grouzen@91.214.124.2")
(3462632692 :privmsg "levy" "this was caused by silently redefining" nil)
(3462632708 :privmsg "levy" "a macro, eh, its complicated anyway" nil)
(3462632761 :action "okflo`" "wonders, when Chrome for OSX will be available..." nil)
(3462632762 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: the anaphoric ones?" nil)
(3462632784 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, yes" nil)
(3462632791 :join "saikat_" nil "n=saikat@76.228.82.245")
(3462632809 :privmsg "tic" "Now that I have clbuild, should I remove all systems in ~/.sbcl/{site,systems} ?" nil)
(3462632814 :privmsg "Makoryu" "okflo`: There's a release already" nil)
(3462632836 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Can't remember where I got it from" nil)
(3462632886 :join "slyrus_" nil "n=slyrus@mail.viantgroup.com")
(3462632894 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, BTW, I've just put up a new version at http://dwim.hu" nil)
(3462632901 :quit "sepult" "\"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)\"" "n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-96.netcologne.de")
(3462632932 :privmsg "levy" "the interesting part is the gui component demo, many things are broken there, but you get a picture" nil)
(3462632936 :privmsg "stassats`" "tic: yes, if you want to" nil)
(3462633019 :privmsg "tic" "stassats`, but there should be no conflicts if I don't? (maybe I just need to read the FAQ...)" nil)
(3462633021 :quit "grouzen" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=grouzen@91.214.124.2")
(3462633046 :join "kmcorbett" nil "n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462633050 :privmsg "okflo`" "Makoryu: only private ports, afaik, but no official release..." nil)
(3462633095 :join "varjag" nil "n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com")
(3462633319 :join "Ralith" nil "n=ralith@69.90.48.127")
(3462633345 :join "ThomasI" nil "n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi")
(3462633467 :quit "okflo`" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@91-115-91-104.adsl.highway.telekom.at")
(3462633537 :quit "okflo" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=user@91-115-87-151.adsl.highway.telekom.at")
(3462633643 :privmsg "Adlai" "tic: what I did to migrate from asdf-install to clbuild is just install stuff with clbuild and every so often check to make sure that anything in my clbuild directory was not in my asdf-install directory" nil)
(3462633659 :join "bandu" nil "n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net")
(3462633683 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: sorry, I think I hanged dwim.hu" nil)
(3462633685 :privmsg "bandu" "> (format t \"hello, guise\")" nil)
(3462633700 :join "wasabi" nil "n=wasabi@nttkyo713154.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462633714 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, good for you :)" nil)
(3462633731 :privmsg "levy" "well, you are right, just got killed, let's see the logs" nil)
(3462633757 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: you mean 'good for me' because you fix the bug and the platform becomes more stable? :)" nil)
(3462633772 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, I hope so" nil)
(3462633791 :privmsg "Adlai" "kami-: until then, you get credited with the discovery of a new feature!" nil)
(3462633799 :join "bad_alloc" nil "n=marvin@HSI-KBW-091-089-218-056.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de")
(3462633804 :join "mattrepl" nil "n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net")
(3462633804 :privmsg "bad_alloc" "evening" nil)
(3462633813 :privmsg "tic" "Adlai, okay, cool. thanks." nil)
(3462633824 :action "bandu" "waves" nil)
(3462633836 :join "chris2" nil "n=chris@dslb-094-216-039-220.pools.arcor-ip.net")
(3462633838 :privmsg "Adlai" "hey bandu, are you new to Common Lisp?" nil)
(3462633842 :privmsg "bandu" "yus, very" nil)
(3462633858 :action "bandu" "looks for Ralith" nil)
(3462633873 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, hmm there's nothing in wui's error.log" nil)
(3462633888 :privmsg "levy" "there's a message \"Killed\" on the console" nil)
(3462633892 :join "gz_" nil "n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com")
(3462633895 :privmsg "Adlai" "If you're interested in Common Lisp, this is the right place. Note that Scheme, Clojure, etc have their own channels." nil)
(3462633902 :privmsg "levy" "I don't have the faintest idea where does that come from" nil)
(3462633904 :quit "chris2" "Client Quit" "n=chris@dslb-094-216-039-220.pools.arcor-ip.net")
(3462633908 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: I did the following: Demo > UI > 'something like basic or so' > String  (the text John appears) > click wildly on Demo, XHTML, Source, Documentation" nil)
(3462633921 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: restart it and I'll crash it again :)" nil)
(3462633937 :privmsg "levy" "ok, I just have to connect with swank then" nil)
(3462633948 :privmsg "bandu" "Adlai: i'm trying to decide between common lisp and haskell, as two friends of mine, who are both pretty excited about having me aboard argue over whether i should learn one or the other first" nil)
(3462633953 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: which log-level does it run in, by default?" nil)
(3462633955 :quit "levy" "Remote closed the connection" "n=levy@apn-89-223-246-229.vodafone.hu")
(3462633957 :privmsg "bandu" "doesnt matter much, i can always learn both" nil)
(3462633964 :privmsg "bandu" "just not at the same time, i think" nil)
(3462633969 :quit "jikanter" "Remote closed the connection" "n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com")
(3462633971 :join "chris2" nil "n=chris@dslb-094-216-039-220.pools.arcor-ip.net")
(3462633979 :privmsg "Ralith" "bandu: sup" nil)
(3462633987 :privmsg "bandu" "he ralith" nil)
(3462633990 :privmsg "bandu" "*hey" nil)
(3462634005 :privmsg "bandu" "i totally missed you on the nick list" nil)
(3462634007 :privmsg "Adlai" "bandu: They're both powerful languages, worth learning at some point... one thing which I can say for CL though is that it's dynamic, and thus (in my opinion) easier for starting out." nil)
(3462634016 :privmsg "Ralith" "bandu: it is worlds easier to do useful things in CL vs. haskell." nil)
(3462634027 :action "bandu" "nods" nil)
(3462634029 :privmsg "tcr" "bandu: What's your background?" nil)
(3462634029 :privmsg "Ralith" "irrespective of your level of experience." nil)
(3462634039 :privmsg "sykopomp" "at the very leas, you're able to play with CL more." nil)
(3462634050 :privmsg "Ralith" "that said, it's a great idea to learn haskell at some point, simply because it forces you to learn a whole bunch of really cool stuff" nil)
(3462634055 :privmsg "bandu" "tcr: i know only java, and a tiny bit of javascript" nil)
(3462634062 :privmsg "Adlai" "bandu: yeah, total n00bs can write object systems in CL in no time at all" nil)
(3462634064 :privmsg "Ralith" "my programming style changed drastically after I learned haskell, and imo much for the better." nil)
(3462634065 :privmsg "bad_alloc" "i've just finished a program for a german coding competition and now i've discovered that they expect to get a runnable program (i.e something to double click) which must be delivered on a cd. how do i do that? i can only find commercial delivery systems for cl." nil)
(3462634068 :privmsg "bandu" "i played with some C/C++, but didnt really pick it up" nil)
(3462634068 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Oh boy" nil)
(3462634077 :action "Adlai" "jests, ever so slightly :)" nil)
(3462634082 :privmsg "tcr" "bandu: I suggest that you start with the book SICP first." nil)
(3462634102 :privmsg "tcr" "bad_alloc: Bwinf?" nil)
(3462634102 :privmsg "Makoryu" "bandu: Ralith will have some absolutely hilarious things to say about Haskell" nil)
(3462634103 :privmsg "Adlai" "bad_alloc: which lisp implementation have you been working on?" nil)
(3462634106 :privmsg "lispm" "bad_alloc: dump and executable image" nil)
(3462634110 :privmsg "Makoryu" "bandu: You should totally ask him about it :D" nil)
(3462634113 :privmsg "lispm" "dump an" nil)
(3462634123 :privmsg "tmh" "bad_alloc: What OS?" nil)
(3462634134 :privmsg "bad_alloc" "tcr: yes" nil)
(3462634135 :privmsg "Adlai" "bad_alloc: also, is this intended to target Windows or *NIX?" nil)
(3462634142 :privmsg "bad_alloc" "Adlai: common lisp" nil)
(3462634143 :privmsg "sykopomp" "bad_alloc: which OS, and which implementation?" nil)
(3462634145 :join "levy" nil "n=levy@apn-89-223-246-229.vodafone.hu")
(3462634156 :privmsg "bad_alloc" "tmh: windows xp or suse" nil)
(3462634159 :privmsg "sykopomp" "common lisp is a language standard, not an implementation." nil)
(3462634164 :privmsg "levy" "bah, the network on dwim.hu is slow like hell" nil)
(3462634167 :privmsg "bad_alloc" "clisp" nil)
(3462634173 :privmsg "Adlai" "bad_alloc: Common Lisp is a (the!) language. An implementation is something like SBCL or CLISP" nil)
(3462634176 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, ok I fired it up and debug-on-error is t" nil)
(3462634178 :privmsg "bandu" "so lisp before haskell, but definately haskell at some point" nil)
(3462634180 :join "fe[nl]ix" nil "n=algidus@88-149-209-183.dynamic.ngi.it")
(3462634182 :privmsg "bad_alloc" "(sorry i thought clisp and common lisp are the same)" nil)
(3462634183 :privmsg "tcr" "bandu: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs (SICP) is totally mind-blowing." nil)
(3462634186 :action "bandu" "puts it on his todo list" nil)
(3462634186 :privmsg "levy" "hope there won't be too much errors popping up" nil)
(3462634188 :privmsg "sykopomp" "bad_alloc: check out the documentation for CLISP. They have instructions on how to dump binaries." nil)
(3462634193 :privmsg "lispm" "bad_alloc: check the documentation for saving images in CLISP" nil)
(3462634197 :privmsg "Adlai" "bad_alloc: you're in luck, CLISP can dump executable images that aren't too large, and can do so for basically all platforms." nil)
(3462634198 :privmsg "tcr" "bandu: It uses a subset of Lisp to teach the fundamentals of Computer Science" nil)
(3462634209 :privmsg "bad_alloc" "will do, thanks" nil)
(3462634217 :privmsg "Ralith" "Makoryu: still sore about that? :P" nil)
(3462634221 :privmsg "bandu" "tcr: it doesnt teach common lisp?" nil)
(3462634231 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Ralith: s/sore/amused/" nil)
(3462634233 :privmsg "bandu" "tcr: wont subtle differences trip me up?" nil)
(3462634237 :privmsg "Ralith" "yeahh." nil)
(3462634242 :privmsg "Adlai" "bandu: it uses Scheme, which is like Common Lisp's elegant, academic cousin" nil)
(3462634256 :privmsg "Ralith" "bandu: shouldn't be hard to keep them straight." nil)
(3462634257 :privmsg "tcr" "bandu: I used Scheme, and Common Lisp for the Bwinf in past; it was enough to provide a shell script in my case." nil)
(3462634264 :privmsg "bandu" "so i should #join scheme and learn that first?" nil)
(3462634269 :privmsg "bandu" "..." nil)
(3462634277 :privmsg "bandu" " */join #scheme?" nil)
(3462634281 :privmsg "Adlai" "bandu: I think that you can learn Common Lisp to start out, but that's just me :)" nil)
(3462634288 :privmsg "Makoryu" "bandu: It's easy enough to enumerate the new things you'll have to learn when going from Scheme to CL" nil)
(3462634288 :privmsg "bandu" "okay, good" nil)
(3462634290 :privmsg "sykopomp" "bandu: CL is fine." nil)
(3462634292 :privmsg "lispm" "bandu: you can learn Common Lisp as a first language just fine" nil)
(3462634299 :privmsg "tcr" "bandu: The point of SICP is not that it teaches a language but that it teaches a mindset." nil)
(3462634300 :privmsg "Makoryu" "bandu: Just have to read a couple of books" nil)
(3462634304 :privmsg "cornucopic" "bandu, once you look at both CL and Scheme, you will probably like one more than the other!" nil)
(3462634305 :privmsg "stassats`" "bandu: SICP isn't really about scheme, it's about programming in general" nil)
(3462634306 :action "bandu" "is overwhelmed <3" nil)
(3462634315 :privmsg "Ralith" "helpfulzerg!" nil)
(3462634316 :privmsg "sykopomp" "minion: please tell bandu about pcl" nil)
(3462634318 :privmsg "Adlai" "wait!" nil)
(3462634318 :privmsg "Ralith" ":D" nil)
(3462634322 :privmsg "minion" "pcl: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462634324 :privmsg "Ralith" "sykopomp: I've already got him going through it" nil)
(3462634326 :privmsg "sykopomp" "hm" nil)
(3462634331 :privmsg "tcr" "This channel is way too crowded." nil)
(3462634332 :privmsg "Adlai" "bandu: go to http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/" nil)
(3462634336 :privmsg "Ralith" "Adlai: see above." nil)
(3462634340 :action "bandu" "wgets" nil)
(3462634342 :action "sykopomp" "pulls out of the mess." nil)
(3462634352 :action "Adlai" "brings up the weather" nil)
(3462634356 :privmsg "bandu" "ooh" nil)
(3462634359 :action "bandu" "bookmarks" nil)
(3462634360 :privmsg "lispm" "bandu: also a good beginner book for Lisp basics is:  Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" nil)
(3462634366 :privmsg "sykopomp" "bandu: it's also very much worth buying an actual hard copy for your bookshelf." nil)
(3462634366 :privmsg "lispm" "http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/index.html" nil)
(3462634372 :privmsg "cornucopic" "bandu, it will totally depend on what you are trying to get our of learning Scheme/CL" nil)
(3462634379 :privmsg "Adlai" "minion: successful-lisp for bandu" nil)
(3462634379 :privmsg "minion" "bandu: direct your attention towards successful-lisp: Successful Lisp is a book providing an all-around summary of Common Lisp, available online at http://www.psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/" nil)
(3462634385 :privmsg "cornucopic" "bandu, s/our/out" nil)
(3462634387 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: I cannot crash it, any more. But I have 'unknown error at top-level'" nil)
(3462634389 :quit "dandersen" "\"leaving\"" "n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen")
(3462634424 :action "bandu" "glows under the attention <3" nil)
(3462634425 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, that's the client side" nil)
(3462634433 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, I can't debug that from here :)" nil)
(3462634436 :privmsg "bandu" "okay, bookmarked all three" nil)
(3462634437 :privmsg "levy" "try reloading the page" nil)
(3462634440 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: good call on the single-float number in the recorded result, I completely missed that." nil)
(3462634440 :privmsg "levy" "what browser?" nil)
(3462634443 :privmsg "bandu" "in what order should i read them?" nil)
(3462634449 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: FF3" nil)
(3462634459 :privmsg "stassats`" "bandu: in parallel" nil)
(3462634467 :privmsg "Ralith" "bandu: they're not really sequential" nil)
(3462634470 :privmsg "bandu" "stats: noted..." nil)
(3462634478 :privmsg "Ralith" "they're all intended as introductory CL books, I think." nil)
(3462634480 :join "Edward_" nil "n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-73-177.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462634483 :action "Ralith" "is only intimately familiar with PCL" nil)
(3462634490 :privmsg "Adlai" "bandu: bear in mind that PCL is the newest one, and thus has the most modern examples" nil)
(3462634491 :privmsg "stassats`" "i meant about SICP and PCL" nil)
(3462634511 :privmsg "tcr" "bandu: Work through SICP first." nil)
(3462634513 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: Thanks, did you try setting *READ-DEFAULT-FLOAT-FORMAT* to DOUBLE-FLOAT" nil)
(3462634514 :privmsg "tmh" "?" nil)
(3462634524 :privmsg "bandu" "i hear conflicting opinoons on whether lisp is still evolving or not" nil)
(3462634525 :quit "HET3" "\"This computer has gone to sleep\"" "n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk")
(3462634530 :join "dandersen" nil "n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen")
(3462634534 :privmsg "tcr" "bandu: Make sure to do exercises. Also watch the SICP video lecturers of the authors in parallel" nil)
(3462634541 :privmsg "Ralith" "bandu: generally: people who don't use it say it isn't; people who do use it say it is." nil)
(3462634548 :privmsg "bandu" "can i expect significant changes to lisp?" nil)
(3462634550 :privmsg "bandu" "oh i see" nil)
(3462634553 :privmsg "bandu" "okay" nil)
(3462634557 :privmsg "Ralith" "common lisp will always be a formal standard" nil)
(3462634558 :privmsg "bandu" "tcr: noted." nil)
(3462634559 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: no, I just added the \"d0\".  I have mixed feelings about resetting r-d-f-f; though I do it myself routinely, I'm not sure I want to require it." nil)
(3462634560 :privmsg "Adlai" "bandu: you can expect significant changes the moment you start using it" nil)
(3462634570 :privmsg "sykopomp" "bandu: there's enough conservatives that your CL code will continue to be fairly compatible." nil)
(3462634575 :privmsg "Ralith" "but even now there's work going on on a new version" nil)
(3462634578 :privmsg "Adlai" "ie, to quote John Foderaro: \"Lisp is the programmable programming language.\"" nil)
(3462634581 :privmsg "bandu" "Adlai: i c wut u did thar" nil)
(3462634587 :privmsg "sykopomp" "but CL is also flexible enough that youc an expect the language the change a lot through libraries." nil)
(3462634595 :privmsg "sykopomp" "for example, there's been a lot of push to replace LOOP with ITERATE" nil)
(3462634597 :privmsg "Adlai" "bandu: u c wut i did whar?" nil)
(3462634604 :privmsg "sykopomp" "that's language evolution :)" nil)
(3462634606 :privmsg "bandu" "oh, never mind" nil)
(3462634628 :privmsg "Ralith" "yeah, there are very few elements of CL that you can't replace within CL if you don't like them." nil)
(3462634640 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: I've been toying with the idea of using it." nil)
(3462634644 :privmsg "bandu" "i thought you were playing with the idea that i would think differently upon learning the langugage" nil)
(3462634649 :privmsg "bandu" "-g" nil)
(3462634662 :privmsg "Ralith" "that's probably more haskell's area" nil)
(3462634674 :privmsg "Ralith" "well, depending." nil)
(3462634675 :privmsg "bandu" "o.o o rly?" nil)
(3462634680 :privmsg "Ralith" "it was for me 'cuz I'd never programmed functionally before" nil)
(3462634683 :privmsg "Adlai" "bandu: every language changes the way you think about programming" nil)
(3462634690 :privmsg "tcr" "bandu: You'll probably be enlighten when you read through SICP. I suggest starting NOW." nil)
(3462634692 :privmsg "bandu" "adlai: i know" nil)
(3462634694 :privmsg "Adlai" "some more, some less." nil)
(3462634696 :privmsg "Ralith" "but since you don't have much experience one way or another you might just jump right into the functional bits of lisp" nil)
(3462634697 :privmsg "stassats`" "Adlai: well, every language worth learning" nil)
(3462634707 :privmsg "stassats`" "Adlai: to quote Alan Perlis this time" nil)
(3462634710 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: Are you back in development mode for GSLL?" nil)
(3462634715 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: it's a bit frustrating; I'd like to have lisp assume all floats are double float, but it doesn't quite do that." nil)
(3462634718 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: no error any more. But I have an interesting behaviour. When I click on the content on the right hand side, some of the menus on the LHS have a 'refresh' overlay and change background colour to blue. It takes around 5 seconds until all 'refreshing' images go away and the background colour becomes normal." nil)
(3462634724 :privmsg "Adlai" "stassats`: no, they all change the way you think... some just change the way you think to \"OH GAWD WHY!?\"" nil)
(3462634725 :privmsg "bandu" "tcr: command received. auth token probationary, executing..." nil)
(3462634734 :nick "bandu" "bandu-reading" "n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net")
(3462634738 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: I'm trying to hit smaller things as they arise." nil)
(3462634750 :quit "ejs" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=eugen@31-54-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net")
(3462634758 :privmsg "sykopomp" "stassats`: even java changed the way I think about programming. In a good way." nil)
(3462634767 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, that's a known bug, thanks, it reloads a lot of components separately and in parallel using ajax, no idea what causes that" nil)
(3462634773 :privmsg "levy" "I did not have the time to investigate it" nil)
(3462634779 :privmsg "Adlai" "sykopomp: that's because Java is worth learning! It's Industry Best Practice!" nil)
(3462634782 :privmsg "levy" "kami-,  oops, now I have an error" nil)
(3462634792 :privmsg "levy" "odd number of &key arguments" nil)
(3462634797 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: so I needed SVD decomposition for something, and that made me aware there were no tests for most linear algebra calculations, so I added about 75 tests and changed some function arguments to be optional for SVD, LU, and QR." nil)
(3462634804 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: I was looking through the WEYL computer algebra library and saw that they were shadowing symbols in the CL package like #'+. It got me to thinking about using shadow." nil)
(3462634806 :privmsg "levy" "kami-,  do you want to skip rendering this component?" nil)
(3462634807 :privmsg "tcr" "bandu-reading: Get DrScheme, that's an easy-to-get and easy-to-use environment for Scheme." nil)
(3462634807 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: that's Primitive > Maker > Boolean" nil)
(3462634818 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: probably not finished porting?" nil)
(3462634820 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: I've done that, but it's a bad  idea." nil)
(3462634826 :privmsg "bandu-reading" "scheme?" nil)
(3462634829 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, unfortunately true" nil)
(3462634840 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: because '+ and '* specifically have bindings other than functions" nil)
(3462634841 :privmsg "Adlai" "bandu-reading: SICP uses Scheme" nil)
(3462634841 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: Ah, I have too many irons in the fire and need to sit down and prioritize." nil)
(3462634852 :privmsg "bandu-reading" "tcr: command aborted.. resource not found" nil)
(3462634852 :quit "bad_alloc" "\"You shoot yourself in somebody else's foot.\"" "n=marvin@HSI-KBW-091-089-218-056.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de")
(3462634859 :nick "bandu-reading" "coyo" "n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net")
(3462634874 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: it's quite annoying to have to do e.g. (declare (vector cl:*)) etc." nil)
(3462634878 :privmsg "coyo" "which one was sicp?" nil)
(3462634885 :privmsg "Adlai" "Scheme bears many similarities to Common Lisp, and it'll do you good anyways to learn it" nil)
(3462634890 :privmsg "Ralith" "coyo: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" nil)
(3462634901 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, BTW, does the column chart shows up to you?" nil)
(3462634912 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/" nil)
(3462634913 :privmsg "coyo" ".google Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" nil)
(3462634913 :privmsg "Ralith" "coyo: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html" nil)
(3462634915 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, another errror" nil)
(3462634922 :privmsg "Ralith" "coyo: no googlebot here." nil)
(3462634932 :privmsg "guaqua" "java is interesting as a social experiment, not from a technical standpoint" nil)
(3462634933 :privmsg "coyo" ";.;" nil)
(3462634934 :privmsg "kami-" "levy:  I clicked somewhere in the content, sorry." nil)
(3462634937 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: I have a to-do list of mostly big things, but one of the items is \"add tests\", and this I can do a little at a time." nil)
(3462634953 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: right here --> http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/" nil)
(3462634965 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, bah, I killed your session" nil)
(3462634966 :privmsg "coyo" "i got it" nil)
(3462634973 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, I turn this debug-on-error off" nil)
(3462634973 :action "coyo" "begins reading" nil)
(3462634999 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, I have to take some food" nil)
(3462635001 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: I haven't looked into shadowing before because it looked like using it was too error prone. The WEYL stuff got me thinking that shadowing must be there for a reason and maybe I should look into using it. The key must be knowing when it is justified, I don't know that." nil)
(3462635006 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: I have the impression that 'unknown error at top-level' is related to session expiry and such" nil)
(3462635007 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: one of the things that the linear algebra tests require is a way to generate matrices by index, so I've added that.  However, my colleague needed something similar, and he wrote more general functions, so I will probably adapt those." nil)
(3462635019 :privmsg "Ralith" "coyo: hopefully this deluge of textbooks isn't too overwhelming ^^" nil)
(3462635020 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: I'll try the build in the mean time." nil)
(3462635025 :privmsg "coyo" "no" nil)
(3462635027 :quit "slyrus_" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=slyrus@mail.viantgroup.com")
(3462635035 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, ok, let me know if you have problems" nil)
(3462635051 :privmsg "lispm" "I would prefer to use Common Lisp books and learn Common Lisp, instead of Scheme" nil)
(3462635056 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: I think shadowing is useful, but what turned me away from using it was the problems with '+ and '* specifically.  The rest of the symbols are OK." nil)
(3462635057 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: Is that something that needs to be added to lisp-unit? What exactly do you mean generate matrices by index?" nil)
(3462635060 :privmsg "coyo" "i can read quickly, though technical manuals are significantly slower than my comprehension reading speed in novels" nil)
(3462635072 :privmsg "Ralith" "well of course" nil)
(3462635085 :privmsg "coyo" ":3" nil)
(3462635101 :privmsg "Ralith" "lispm: SICP isn't a matter of learning scheme so much, though" nil)
(3462635122 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: http://repo.or.cz/w/gsll.git?a=blob;f=linear-algebra/matrix-generation.lisp" nil)
(3462635123 :privmsg "lispm" "there are SICPs for Common Lisp" nil)
(3462635125 :privmsg "tcr" "coyo: Please keep one nickname." nil)
(3462635159 :privmsg "lispm" "Ralith: SICP is a computer science introduction, not the right book if somebody wants to learn Lisp" nil)
(3462635160 :privmsg "Adlai" "tcr: come now, he's discovering the magical world of IRC. Let him play a little :)" nil)
(3462635169 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: this is useful if you want to create a matrix with specific contents based on the indices of the elements, see the examples at the end." nil)
(3462635181 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "kami-: that unknown error is that the session and/or frame gets invalid and the ajax stuff doesn't handle that well yet" nil)
(3462635185 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: not a lisp-unit thing, no" nil)
(3462635185 :action "attila_lendvai" "is afk for a while" nil)
(3462635207 :privmsg "Ralith" "lispm: well, he's interested in learning programming first, lisp second, I think." nil)
(3462635209 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: I recommend that you look at both PCL and SICP, and come ask in here any time you have questions." nil)
(3462635229 :privmsg "Ralith" "lispm: the language is, after all, just the medium." nil)
(3462635238 :quit "ASau" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@83.69.227.19")
(3462635249 :privmsg "coyo" "yus, sirs" nil)
(3462635250 :privmsg "lispm" "yeah, but computer science is not equal to programming" nil)
(3462635253 :join "ASau" nil "n=user@83.69.227.34")
(3462635256 :action "coyo" "sticks to \"coyo\"" nil)
(3462635271 :privmsg "lispm" "ralith: learning programming is so much more than is in SICP" nil)
(3462635279 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: Ah, ok. On a related note, despite not having released a draft of the linear algebra library, I have done a little work on it and have a plan for a preliminary release." nil)
(3462635281 :privmsg "kami-" "attila_lendvai: yes. I see that always after long inactivity." nil)
(3462635293 :privmsg "Adlai" "\"And He looked upon the CODE, and He saw that it was good.\" <- Ralith, the code matters, it's in scripture!" nil)
(3462635300 :privmsg "lispm" "ralith: learning programming with Lisp is better done with PCL, I think" nil)
(3462635302 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: OK" nil)
(3462635329 :privmsg "lispm" "ralith: even CS students have a course pre SICP to get some programming basics in Scheme" nil)
(3462635348 :action "coyo" "reads on" nil)
(3462635393 :privmsg "Ralith" "lispm: well he'll be doing both so that's okay then ^^" nil)
(3462635409 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: I have too many libraries in various states of development that need to just be kicked out the door. Part of the problem is that I want to host them on my own website tied in with my little consulting company, but I keep procrastinating on putting together a website and server." nil)
(3462635423 :join "johnny_z" nil "n=anonymou@217.24.250.130")
(3462635429 :quit "adeht" "\"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)\"" "n=death@bzq-84-110-247-141.red.bezeqint.net")
(3462635458 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: OK; I prefer to have cl.net and repo.or.cz take on the hosting chores." nil)
(3462635476 :action "coyo" "likes the humor in this old book" nil)
(3462635503 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: There's now a mirror of the GSLL git repo on cl.net at http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/gsll/gsll.git;a=summary; it syncs up every hour." nil)
(3462635509 :action "coyo" "reviews material he knows already...." nil)
(3462635635 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: that's nice. I may have to give up on darcs and go with the inertia of git." nil)
(3462635649 :privmsg "Adlai" "tmh: git is great" nil)
(3462635686 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: I mirrored it because repo.or.cz was off the air for a few hours, and someone wanted to pull GSLL." nil)
(3462635698 :privmsg "tmh" "Adlai: A great number of commands that are subtle different and confusing" nil)
(3462635735 :action "coyo" "begins to hit material with which he is not familar" nil)
(3462635740 :privmsg "coyo" "*familiar" nil)
(3462635771 :privmsg "Adlai" "tmh: git's got a fairly straightforward interface nowadays, for basic stuff -- you add files, commit, push, pull, branch, merge -- the stuff like update-ref is pretty well hidden nowadays, I think" nil)
(3462635772 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: Well, cl.net does have darcs, so maybe that's not a concern." nil)
(3462635799 :privmsg "Makoryu" "tmh: omg darcs" nil)
(3462635814 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: I just need to make it public and let go, but I have some desire to keep it on my own website and under my own control." nil)
(3462635817 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: yeah, I think they support all the big source code management packages" nil)
(3462635821 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: feel free to ask questions... as you can probably tell, this is a newbie-starved community" nil)
(3462635833 :privmsg "LiamH" "tmh: well that of course is your choice" nil)
(3462635833 :privmsg "coyo" ":3" nil)
(3462635850 :action "coyo" "is already commited, and has added #lisp to his autojoin" nil)
(3462635865 :action "coyo" "faithfully logs into irc everyday" nil)
(3462635885 :privmsg "tmh" "LiamH: Yeah, I need to go help with a grocery list, be back later." nil)
(3462635910 :join "mcdonji" nil "n=mcdonji@70.75.0.48")
(3462635932 :privmsg "coyo" "Adlai: i take it you run this place along with tmh?" nil)
(3462635948 :privmsg "coyo" "you two seem to be dominant" nil)
(3462635953 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: I could name a few ways that you'd be wrong" nil)
(3462635960 :privmsg "coyo" "okay" nil)
(3462635971 :privmsg "Adlai" "ehh wait I misspoke" nil)
(3462635979 :quit "cornucopic" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=r00t@202.3.77.134")
(3462635983 :privmsg "coyo" "?" nil)
(3462635983 :privmsg "Adlai" "read as: I could name very few ways in which you could be MORE wrong" nil)
(3462635999 :privmsg "coyo" "okay" nil)
(3462636015 :action "coyo" "is used to being wrong, so, yeah" nil)
(3462636016 :action "Adlai" "is quite far from \"running this place\", although he does at times strut about as though he does..." nil)
(3462636047 :action "coyo" "offers adlai a gift of white chocolate anyway" nil)
(3462636055 :privmsg "Ralith" "coyo: there are 301 people in this channel, and no guarantee that *any* of them even have ops :P" nil)
(3462636059 :privmsg "Ralith" "welcome to freenode." nil)
(3462636065 :privmsg "coyo" "rofl" nil)
(3462636066 :privmsg "dandersen" "Oh, a few do." nil)
(3462636067 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: I'm fairly new to Lisp myself, which is why I try to be nice to newbies :)" nil)
(3462636078 :privmsg "coyo" "yeah, i noticed the lack of ops, halfops, and voice" nil)
(3462636098 :privmsg "stassats`" "banlist is full anyway" nil)
(3462636104 :privmsg "Ralith" "freenode standard is also generally only to +o whe one plans to use it." nil)
(3462636114 :privmsg "Adlai" "The people who do have ops here can ask the ChanServ to op them when they need to kickban nubzorz" nil)
(3462636114 :privmsg "dcrawford" "usually someone activating their ops privliges is a warning that a banhammer is incoming" nil)
(3462636125 :privmsg "coyo" "i'm not really that worried, as i'm sweet natured, and unlikely to do anything to get banned" nil)
(3462636132 :privmsg "Ralith" "hehe" nil)
(3462636142 :action "Adlai" "mutters, \"Just you wait...\"" nil)
(3462636151 :privmsg "coyo" ":3" nil)
(3462636152 :privmsg "dandersen" "A few months have passed... it's time for me to ask the question again." nil)
(3462636156 :privmsg "dandersen" "What happened to Erik Naggum?" nil)
(3462636159 :privmsg "Ralith" "he died?" nil)
(3462636166 :privmsg "dandersen" "He can die?" nil)
(3462636170 :privmsg "Ralith" "so it seems" nil)
(3462636173 :privmsg "Adlai" "dandersen: he got GCed, so to speak." nil)
(3462636174 :privmsg "coyo" "i am not familiar with that guy" nil)
(3462636176 :privmsg "dandersen" "That would be a pity." nil)
(3462636186 :privmsg "Ralith" "coyo: semifamous lisp usenet poster" nil)
(3462636189 :privmsg "stassats`" "coyo: so, stop talking and go read lisp books" nil)
(3462636195 :privmsg "Makoryu" "coyo: Hey, if I can prowl around here and not be banhammered, so can you" nil)
(3462636197 :privmsg "coyo" "okayz" nil)
(3462636198 :privmsg "Adlai" "dandersen: I think he was pretty sick in the last bit of his life" nil)
(3462636209 :privmsg "guaqua" "Adlai: i'd prefer getting gc'd rather than die :)" nil)
(3462636210 :privmsg "dandersen" "Adlai: Wait, he actually died?" nil)
(3462636213 :quit "timor" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de")
(3462636214 :action "coyo" "continues reading" nil)
(3462636217 :privmsg "Xach" "dandersen: He died." nil)
(3462636221 :privmsg "Adlai" "dandersen: yes" nil)
(3462636231 :privmsg "Makoryu" "http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ErikNaggum" nil)
(3462636253 :privmsg "dandersen" "Oh damn, it must've happened while I was offline." nil)
(3462636257 :privmsg "Adlai" "Makoryu: right, because we're gonna trust Emacs users with keeping their wiki factual" nil)
(3462636263 :privmsg "Adlai" "dandersen: it happened a while ago, actually" nil)
(3462636281 :privmsg "dandersen" "Adlai: I took a 4-month break off computing." nil)
(3462636303 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Adlai: You say you're a newbie, yet you talk like you've been hanging out in #lisp your entire life" nil)
(3462636308 :privmsg "Adlai" "dandersen: ah, I see" nil)
(3462636319 :privmsg "Ralith" "Makoryu: he does?" nil)
(3462636333 :privmsg "stassats`" "less talk, MORE CODE" nil)
(3462636338 :privmsg "Adlai" "minion: CHANT" nil)
(3462636338 :privmsg "minion" "MORE CODE" nil)
(3462636343 :privmsg "pr" "i was wondering if there's something like a common lisp podcast, similar to what the 'industry misinterprations' podcast is to smalltalk" nil)
(3462636354 :action "dandersen" "makes a mental note to write some sort of universal filter so that the words \"Xah\" and \"Lee\" are never displayed before my eyes." nil)
(3462636385 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Ralith: Does a fish in water know it's wet? INTELLECTUAL CHECKMATE!" nil)
(3462636386 :join "Odin-" nil "n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is")
(3462636399 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Say, is there a CL IRC client?" nil)
(3462636402 :privmsg "Xach" "pr: Some people talked about doing that (Markus Fix IIRC) but I don't think it went anywhere." nil)
(3462636405 :privmsg "Makoryu" "Or do you all just use ERC?" nil)
(3462636407 :privmsg "dcrawford" "dandersen, aren't typing those characters kickable offences? :P" nil)
(3462636411 :privmsg "Xach" "Makoryu: beirc" nil)
(3462636416 :privmsg "Adlai" "minion: beirc, when you get around to CLiki" nil)
(3462636419 :privmsg "tcr" "Makoryu: Beirc is an IRC client for McCLIM" nil)
(3462636421 :privmsg "minion" "beirc, when you get around: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462636423 :privmsg "dandersen" "dcrawford: I certainly hope so." nil)
(3462636424 :part "fxr" nil "n=user@213.232.33.243")
(3462636448 :privmsg "Ralith" "Makoryu: wat" nil)
(3462636449 :privmsg "dcrawford" "minion: tell Makoryu about beirc" nil)
(3462636454 :privmsg "minion" "beirc: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462636460 :privmsg "dcrawford" ":(" nil)
(3462636468 :privmsg "Makoryu" "dcrawford: Relax. I can google" nil)
(3462636470 :privmsg "Adlai" "minion: what does beIRC stand for?" nil)
(3462636470 :privmsg "minion" "Baylike Egoistically Inbreed Roaster Colorfully" nil)
(3462636494 :join "stipet" nil "n=user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se")
(3462636499 :privmsg "dandersen" "Adlai: You *were* asking for it." nil)
(3462636502 :privmsg "varjag" "sounds about right" nil)
(3462636506 :privmsg "dcrawford" "ah is it because cliki moved?" nil)
(3462636533 :privmsg "dcrawford" "cliki.tech.coop doesn't work but www.cliki.net does" nil)
(3462636646 :quit "Odin-" "Client Quit" "n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is")
(3462636651 :quit "brickhazel_" "\"Leaving\"" "n=brickhaz@63.144.132.79")
(3462636706 :privmsg "dcrawford" "minion: cliki" nil)
(3462636709 :join "bgs100" nil "n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100")
(3462636710 :privmsg "minion" "cliki: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462636823 :privmsg "lispm" "minion: tell me about cliki" nil)
(3462636825 :quit "torbo" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=torbo@c-0f5fe353.732-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se")
(3462636825 :join "splittist" nil "n=dmurray@ASt-Lambert-153-1-63-222.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462636828 :privmsg "minion" "cliki: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?" nil)
(3462636828 :privmsg "splittist" "bonsoir" nil)
(3462636842 :privmsg "lispm" "guten abend" nil)
(3462636844 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "bonsoir monsieur" nil)
(3462636853 :privmsg "sykopomp" "buenas noches" nil)
(3462636860 :privmsg "Adlai" "wussup" nil)
(3462636892 :join "OmniMancer" nil "n=OmniManc@219-89-108-42.jetstart.xtra.co.nz")
(3462636905 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "wtf does it mean that \"cliki doesn't respond\" ?" nil)
(3462636935 :privmsg "p_l" "" nil)
(3462636949 :privmsg "varjag" "p_l: exactly" nil)
(3462636956 :privmsg "Adlai" "fe[nl]ix: I think minion used to have some direct link to cliki (ie, he could access page data directly, rathre than have to parse HTML pages), and now it's broken." nil)
(3462636975 :privmsg "Adlai" "hm actually cliki pages basically are HTML..." nil)
(3462637020 :privmsg "sykopomp" "p_l: isn't it HA (pronounced as WA)?" nil)
(3462637026 :action "dandersen" "still can't get over the fact that Naggum is dead." nil)
(3462637027 :action "coyo" "is now reading http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-4.html#%_toc_%_sec_1.1.3" nil)
(3462637049 :privmsg "stassats`" "coyo: no need to acknowledge everyone" nil)
(3462637065 :privmsg "coyo" "okay" nil)
(3462637070 :privmsg "lispm" "dansersen: light a candle and make a donation to a Lisp project" nil)
(3462637111 :privmsg "p_l" "sykopomp: it's only  when it is used as a particle, and I don't remember if it was used like that in this case" nil)
(3462637121 :privmsg "lispm" "you might also want to put a picture of him on some altar" nil)
(3462637147 :quit "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net")
(3462637148 :privmsg "Ralith" "contribute to CLtL3" nil)
(3462637168 :privmsg "p_l" "lispm: make Naggum a Kami? :P" nil)
(3462637172 :privmsg "sykopomp" "p_l: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090903203257AAGIsLl looks like it's konbanha" nil)
(3462637192 :privmsg "sykopomp" "I think it's a shortened sentence, so it uses HA as a particle." nil)
(3462637201 :privmsg "kami-" "p_l: please don't make Naggum a kami-" nil)
(3462637256 :privmsg "splittist" "or vice versa?" nil)
(3462637260 :privmsg "p_l" "sykopomp: right,   " nil)
(3462637276 :action "p_l" "blames his lack of practice" nil)
(3462637287 :privmsg "sykopomp" "\"this night ..\" right. It's been like 3 years for me :\\" nil)
(3462637294 :privmsg "sykopomp" "I should get on top of things again." nil)
(3462637314 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "p_l: (ik)  (int) (misspelling of ) (See ) (WARNING - misspelling!);" nil)
(3462637320 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "from jim breen's dictionary" nil)
(3462637326 :nick "xan" "xan-afk" "n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi")
(3462637365 :privmsg "p_l" "fe[nl]ix: well, I typed it like ^Rkonbanwa^R so I didn't have spelling support :P" nil)
(3462637371 :privmsg "dandersen" "lispm: I think using Lisp more in my daily coding would be good enough. Anyone can contribute with money, but not all can contribute with code. ;P" nil)
(3462637384 :join "tsuru" nil "n=user@c-76-22-154-126.hsd1.tn.comcast.net")
(3462637393 :privmsg "sykopomp" "http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/ highly recommended, by the way, if you're a fx user." nil)
(3462637405 :privmsg "sykopomp" ") ;end offtopic closure" nil)
(3462637407 :privmsg "lispm" "danderson: Lisp projects also take code donations" nil)
(3462637422 :privmsg "Adlai" "sykopomp: this is not C!" nil)
(3462637428 :privmsg "dandersen" "lispm: My point exactly." nil)
(3462637473 :privmsg "lispm" "the mighty Lambda also takes food and flowers" nil)
(3462637593 :privmsg "lispm" "see here for some actual Lisp altar:  http://www.cs.brown.edu/research/plt/LispM/" nil)
(3462637614 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Adlai: no, it's not. But I like marking the very end of a large toplevel closure with a paren in a different line." nil)
(3462637623 :privmsg "sykopomp" "it makes it more obvious that the closure is over." nil)
(3462637662 :join "silenius" nil "n=jl@dslb-088-073-086-110.pools.arcor-ip.net")
(3462637677 :privmsg "dandersen" "lispm: I'd be more delighted to see those machines being used as something more than decoration." nil)
(3462637692 :privmsg "pkhuong" "gigamonkey: \"another guy named Rob MacLachlan\" at CMU's AI LAB? Wouldn't that be the R.A.M. of CMUCL?" nil)
(3462637699 :privmsg "lispm" "yes" nil)
(3462637706 :privmsg "lispm" "yes" nil)
(3462637806 :privmsg "tsuru" "are there any logs being collected with utf8 turned on? I see clozure's but it doesn't appear to be utf8" nil)
(3462637840 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/09.09.22" nil)
(3462637865 :privmsg "tsuru" "fe[nl]ix: thanks" nil)
(3462637906 :join "Phoodus" nil "i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net")
(3462638072 :join "kmcorbett1" nil "n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462638097 :privmsg "proun" "basic question, can you not evaluate to a key in a case form?" nil)
(3462638123 :privmsg "proun" "http://pastebin.com/m12f900af" nil)
(3462638139 :privmsg "stassats`" "no, you cannot" nil)
(3462638153 :privmsg "stassats`" "though, you can do #.(char-code #\\s)" nil)
(3462638160 :privmsg "Xach" "if the value is available at read time, you can do what stassats said" nil)
(3462638202 :privmsg "proun" "hmm, ok. what does #. do?" nil)
(3462638203 :privmsg "tcr" "proun: Consider using an alist instead" nil)
(3462638211 :privmsg "stassats`" "clhs #." nil)
(3462638211 :privmsg "specbot" "http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm" nil)
(3462638214 :privmsg "Adlai" "proun: it evaluates a form when the file is read" nil)
(3462638229 :quit "silenius" "\"Leaving\"" "n=jl@dslb-088-073-086-110.pools.arcor-ip.net")
(3462638240 :privmsg "Xach" "Adlai: files need not be involved" nil)
(3462638249 :privmsg "Adlai" "Xach: true. s/file/form" nil)
(3462638283 :privmsg "stassats`" "and result is substitutet" nil)
(3462638317 :join "Davidbrcz" nil "n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr")
(3462638340 :privmsg "proun" "tcr: i do not understand what i would do with an alist there" nil)
(3462638352 :join "jeti" nil "n=jeti@p548EFC69.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3462638383 :privmsg "tcr" "proun: (print (cdr (assoc char '((#\\x . \"something\") (#\\y . \"something-else\")))))" nil)
(3462638428 :privmsg "proun" "ah, thanks" nil)
(3462638485 :join "adeht" nil "n=death@bzq-84-110-247-141.red.bezeqint.net")
(3462638563 :join "spilman" nil "n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-98-108.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462638612 :privmsg "pkhuong" "or a hash table." nil)
(3462638643 :privmsg "_3b" "does CASE use EQ or EQL?" nil)
(3462638650 :privmsg "pkhuong" "_3b: EQL." nil)
(3462638653 :quit "scottmaccal" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=scott@sentry3.jayschools.org")
(3462638678 :quit "bdowning" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net")
(3462638726 :join "davazp" nil "n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net")
(3462638776 :privmsg "Fare" "BLM Wednesday 30th 2009 6pm @ NEU WVG 108 (!) - Christine Flood on Fortress" nil)
(3462638816 :join "bread08" nil "n=bread08@80.31.191.57")
(3462638818 :privmsg "Xach" "neat" nil)
(3462638861 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Fare: Fortress?" nil)
(3462638918 :privmsg "tmh" "Fare: Every time I think Fortress is dead and I can quit looking for a reason to use it, someone does something with it." nil)
(3462638940 :join "slyrus_" nil "n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net")
(3462638967 :privmsg "Fare" "sykopomp, it's a programmable programming language, Lisp enough to me." nil)
(3462638972 :privmsg "bread08" "Hi. Can anyone tell me, why a floating point subtraction like the following leeds to a \"noisy\" result?" nil)
(3462638985 :privmsg "bread08" "(- 21.7 21.0) -> 0.70000076" nil)
(3462638987 :privmsg "dandersen" "Fare: Why use something \"Lisp-like\" when you can just use Lisp?" nil)
(3462639009 :privmsg "tmh" "bread08: That's the beauty of trying to represent an irrational number in binary." nil)
(3462639013 :privmsg "Fare" "dandersen, because LISP 1.5 is not that great." nil)
(3462639039 :privmsg "tmh" "bread08: Although, I guess those are rational, or could be" nil)
(3462639052 :privmsg "p_l" "dandersen: and implementations of 1.5 are rather rare :P" nil)
(3462639052 :quit "fiveop" "\"humhum\"" "n=fiveop@g229172026.adsl.alicedsl.de")
(3462639058 :privmsg "pkhuong" "minion: tell bread08 about floating-point" nil)
(3462639058 :privmsg "minion" "bread08: have a look at floating-point: What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic http://docs-pdf.sun.com/800-7895/800-7895.pdf http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=103163 http://focus.hut.fi/docs/WorkShop/common/ug/goldberg1.doc.html" nil)
(3462639071 :privmsg "Fare" "bread08, maybe you want (- 217/10 21)" nil)
(3462639071 :action "dandersen" "sighs." nil)
(3462639074 :privmsg "tmh" "bread08: Anyway, what pkhuong said." nil)
(3462639081 :privmsg "Fare" "bread08, especially if you're handling money" nil)
(3462639096 :privmsg "coyo" "um.. in common lisp, it's (defun square (x) (* x x)), right?" nil)
(3462639102 :privmsg "tmh" "Fare: Are you talking about the same Fortress that I am?" nil)
(3462639107 :privmsg "coyo" "as opposed to the book's (define ... )" nil)
(3462639111 :quit "kmcorbett" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462639122 :privmsg "Xach" "coyo: yes. if you want to learn the specifics of common lisp, try a book about common lisp." nil)
(3462639125 :privmsg "Fare" "tmh: language being developed at Sun labs?" nil)
(3462639135 :privmsg "coyo" "okay" nil)
(3462639136 :privmsg "tmh" "Fare: Yes." nil)
(3462639189 :privmsg "tmh" "Fare: Have you played with it?" nil)
(3462639210 :privmsg "coyo" "System error: Undefined Access Level Exception: conflicting commands from equal access level peers" nil)
(3462639212 :privmsg "Fare" "tmh: nope. But if you're around Boston next week, you can probably have a nice demo." nil)
(3462639226 :privmsg "coyo" "--more--" nil)
(3462639233 :privmsg "Fare" "coyo: what system tells you that?" nil)
(3462639242 :privmsg "tmh" "Fare: Thanks, but I'm afraid I'm not in Boston." nil)
(3462639287 :privmsg "coyo" "so, should i continue reading this book, though i do not wish to learn scheme, or should i switch another of the many books you guise linked" nil)
(3462639288 :privmsg "coyo" "?" nil)
(3462639308 :privmsg "Xach" "coyo: it is a good book about thinking, and it uses scheme as a tool to help teach." nil)
(3462639324 :privmsg "splittist" "wow - guys -> guise. I like it." nil)
(3462639330 :privmsg "Xach" "coyo: if your goal is to learn the details of using common lisp, get a common lisp-oriented book." nil)
(3462639331 :privmsg "bread08" "minion: Thank you. The first link and the paper seem to be interesting and, sadly the last link is not working." nil)
(3462639331 :privmsg "minion" "np" nil)
(3462639339 :privmsg "Makoryu" "coyo: SICP is a book everyone should read regardless of what language they want to work with" nil)
(3462639339 :join "Dawgmatix" nil "n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net")
(3462639352 :privmsg "Xach" "Fare: the important question, of course, is who will be responsible for the food." nil)
(3462639358 :privmsg "coyo" "should i read sicp before actually beginning any work?" nil)
(3462639378 :privmsg "coyo" "that's a whole lot of not doing anything (but training)" nil)
(3462639404 :privmsg "Xach" "coyo: If you want to actually write common lisp programs, Practical Common Lisp and Paradigms of AI Programming are two good books to start with." nil)
(3462639413 :privmsg "lispm" "no, starting with SICP is not a good idea unless, you want to learn Computer Science" nil)
(3462639426 :privmsg "coyo" "okay...conflict resolved" nil)
(3462639431 :privmsg "lispm" "as Xach says" nil)
(3462639434 :action "coyo" "processes..." nil)
(3462639446 :privmsg "dandersen" "coyo: If you find that tough, try http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ first" nil)
(3462639466 :privmsg "Fare" "Xach: do you want to order?" nil)
(3462639471 :privmsg "dandersen" "coyo: But tough can be good =)" nil)
(3462639477 :privmsg "coyo" "it doesnt really give me any issues in difficulty" nil)
(3462639482 :privmsg "Xach" "Fare: I don't think I will be able to attend." nil)
(3462639485 :privmsg "Fare" ":(" nil)
(3462639502 :privmsg "coyo" "but i keep hitting issues in setting up my dev env" nil)
(3462639518 :privmsg "coyo" "i think i managed to get something working with emacs" nil)
(3462639529 :privmsg "coyo" "omg, though, i dont think i'm ready for emacs" nil)
(3462639537 :privmsg "splittist" "coyo: I would imagine that actually writing CL is a surer path to enlightenment than just reading about it. Of course, be prepared to throw away the first few things you write." nil)
(3462639542 :privmsg "proun" "coyo: im learning, i keep going back to practical common lisp, however i though \"ansi common lisp\" was a more gentle intro" nil)
(3462639590 :privmsg "splittist" "reading < writing < reading+writing" nil)
(3462639596 :privmsg "coyo" "@google ansi common lisp" nil)
(3462639604 :privmsg "sykopomp" "proun: use Gentle Intro to Symbolic Computation if you don't know how to program already, and PCL if you're somewhat comfortable with various topics already." nil)
(3462639605 :privmsg "coyo" "oh" nil)
(3462639635 :privmsg "coyo" "is there a way to learn lisp with gedit?" nil)
(3462639649 :privmsg "sykopomp" "I would recommend you actually use SLIME" nil)
(3462639651 :privmsg "Xach" "coyo: i don't think people have done much to make that a good lisp environment." nil)
(3462639664 :privmsg "Fare" "coyo: yes, you can even learn lisp with ed" nil)
(3462639668 :privmsg "sykopomp" "you can write lisp with anything, but you really miss out on a lot if you don't use an interactive environment." nil)
(3462639669 :privmsg "dandersen" "Ah, what Naggum would responder..." nil)
(3462639673 :privmsg "dandersen" "s/er//" nil)
(3462639678 :privmsg "Fare" "I'm sure what the first lispers had was no better than ed." nil)
(3462639685 :privmsg "levy" "coyo, just don't start counting the parenthesis" nil)
(3462639696 :action "coyo" "sighs" nil)
(3462639697 :privmsg "lispm" "i doubt there was ed" nil)
(3462639698 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Fare: we've come a long way, of course :)" nil)
(3462639713 :privmsg "Fare" "lispm, I said \"no better\"" nil)
(3462639713 :privmsg "stassats`" "pencil and paper" nil)
(3462639726 :part "bread08" nil "n=bread08@80.31.191.57")
(3462639727 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "Fare: you can *edit* lisp with something akin to ed, not learn it" nil)
(3462639733 :privmsg "lispm" "I doubt there was even anything like ed" nil)
(3462639734 :privmsg "Fare" "the french guy who was doing AI before Lisp in the 1950s was using punch cards." nil)
(3462639736 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "Fare: for that, they used pen&paper" nil)
(3462639741 :join "bread08" nil "n=bread08@80.31.191.57")
(3462639753 :quit "splittist" "\"Pen&Paper4me\"" "n=dmurray@ASt-Lambert-153-1-63-222.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462639754 :privmsg "levy" "for CL development emacs/slime is *the tool* anything else is just a joke" nil)
(3462639770 :privmsg "lispm" "on a Mac you can use the CCL environment" nil)
(3462639780 :privmsg "coyo" "okay" nil)
(3462639780 :quit "blackened`" nil "n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz")
(3462639783 :privmsg "lispm" "or LispWorks Personal Edition on Linux/Windows/Mac" nil)
(3462639791 :privmsg "coyo" "it seems i may need an emacs tutorial" nil)
(3462639807 :privmsg "coyo" "is it possible to learn how to use emacs?" nil)
(3462639810 :privmsg "levy" "I wonder when will emacs have better default keybindings" nil)
(3462639819 :privmsg "proun" "it helps to have easy, searchable access on command - hyperspec lookup lispdoc.com shortcuts have been most helpful for me" nil)
(3462639836 :privmsg "dandersen" "coyo: You can learn the basics in a day and then start building on top of that." nil)
(3462639856 :privmsg "levy" "coyo, install emacs and follow its own tutorial" nil)
(3462639869 :privmsg "coyo" "also, i noticed that .lisp files compile to .fasl files" nil)
(3462639873 :privmsg "coyo" "is that bytecode?" nil)
(3462639887 :privmsg "sykopomp" "no" nil)
(3462639890 :join "blackened`" nil "n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz")
(3462639891 :privmsg "sykopomp" "well, depends" nil)
(3462639894 :privmsg "stassats`" "machine code" nil)
(3462639897 :privmsg "sykopomp" "since it's .fasl, I assume you mean SBCL" nil)
(3462639901 :privmsg "sykopomp" "in which case it's machine code." nil)
(3462639902 :privmsg "coyo" "yus" nil)
(3462639910 :privmsg "dandersen" "They're not standalone binaries, which I assume is one of your next questions." nil)
(3462639911 :privmsg "sykopomp" "CLISP's .fas files are bytecode" nil)
(3462639934 :quit "sohail" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail")
(3462639941 :privmsg "coyo" "interesting" nil)
(3462639950 :privmsg "levy" "coyo, try (disassemble (lambda (a) (+ a 1)))" nil)
(3462639956 :privmsg "coyo" "so it's machine code, but cannot be executed on it's own" nil)
(3462639958 :privmsg "Adlai" " coyo: uh, there's an emacs tutorial" nil)
(3462639961 :privmsg "coyo" "levy.. okay" nil)
(3462639961 :privmsg "phf" "is there a repo for xcl?" nil)
(3462639965 :privmsg "Adlai" "not sure why nobody pointed it out yet" nil)
(3462639967 :privmsg "Adlai" "C-h t" nil)
(3462639976 :privmsg "Adlai" "that's Control+h t" nil)
(3462639995 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: the dojo build puts the result in a dojo-<svn-revision> dir, right?" nil)
(3462639998 :privmsg "tcr" "phf: No, not currently." nil)
(3462640000 :privmsg "sykopomp" "coyo: yes, because you need enough of a lisp to be able to run it. There are ways to dump standalone binaries that you can just click and run, though." nil)
(3462640002 :privmsg "Adlai" "phf: I think Peter Graves is keeping his development repo private and just making release tarballs periodically" nil)
(3462640005 :privmsg "dandersen" "coyo: Yeah, C stands for Control, M stands for Meta (usually Alt; otherwise Escape)." nil)
(3462640013 :privmsg "sykopomp" "for SBCL, that would be SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE" nil)
(3462640021 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, yes, that' because we can't use head, it is too fragile" nil)
(3462640031 :join "nvoorhies" nil "n=nvoorhie@nmd.sbx05947.fulleca.wayport.net")
(3462640035 :privmsg "coyo" "levy: i got a large output" nil)
(3462640042 :privmsg "coyo" "would you like a copy in pm?" nil)
(3462640047 :privmsg "coyo" "or pastebin?" nil)
(3462640048 :privmsg "dandersen" "sykopomp: Wasn't it you who wrote a nice blog post on how to use save-lisp-and-die?" nil)
(3462640057 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: I think he asked you to do that more for your own benefit" nil)
(3462640062 :privmsg "stassats`" "coyo: it's for your reading pleasure" nil)
(3462640062 :privmsg "coyo" "okay" nil)
(3462640065 :action "coyo" "reads" nil)
(3462640065 :join "rme" nil "n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net")
(3462640067 :privmsg "levy" "coyo, no thanks, I have my own" nil)
(3462640087 :privmsg "levy" "coyo, I was just trying to show you that lisp is compiled to machine code" nil)
(3462640104 :privmsg "coyo" "i cannot really understand it" nil)
(3462640106 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: but in wui, some paths use 'www/dojo/...'" nil)
(3462640113 :privmsg "coyo" "it looks suspiciously like assembly" nil)
(3462640116 :privmsg "sykopomp" "dandersen: nope." nil)
(3462640124 :privmsg "coyo" "though i dont know assembly" nil)
(3462640126 :privmsg "Fare" "dandersen, you don't use save-lisp-and-die, you use cl-launch or xcvb to create an executable :)" nil)
(3462640130 :privmsg "sykopomp" "lisppaste: url" nil)
(3462640131 :privmsg "lisppaste" "To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste." nil)
(3462640133 :join "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net")
(3462640137 :privmsg "sykopomp" "coyo: paste any lisp code to that site." nil)
(3462640149 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, hmm, I do have link dojo to the dojo-* in my hu.dwim.wui/www" nil)
(3462640151 :privmsg "sykopomp" "coyo: in the case of SBCL, it *is* assembly." nil)
(3462640157 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: maybe create-links.sh could create a dojo/ which points to dojo-[0-9]+" nil)
(3462640159 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, I suppose that should not be there though" nil)
(3462640166 :join "dialtone" nil "n=dialtone@93-33-230-31.ip46.fastwebnet.it")
(3462640167 :privmsg "coyo" "Ralith had me install sbcl" nil)
(3462640181 :privmsg "coyo" "i installed from the ubuntu repos" nil)
(3462640187 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: pastebin any lisp code or disassembly and people might try and explain it if they're in a good mood :)" nil)
(3462640197 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, where did you see www/dojo?" nil)
(3462640198 :privmsg "coyo" "ooh" nil)
(3462640199 :privmsg "coyo" "neat" nil)
(3462640215 :privmsg "Adlai" "uhoh, installing from the Ubuntu/Debian repos is not a good idea" nil)
(3462640226 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: wait. I'll re-run the build" nil)
(3462640227 :privmsg "p_l" "coyo: it shows whatever your implementation compiles to - SBCL/CCL & other native compilers will print assembly, CLISP would show bytecode etc." nil)
(3462640228 :privmsg "Adlai" "it's fine to get your SBCL from there FOR NOW, but don't get any more software from there" nil)
(3462640249 :privmsg "Adlai" "p_l: CCL doesn't print assembly per se, but rather assembler instructions" nil)
(3462640253 :privmsg "Adlai" "(I think)" nil)
(3462640255 :privmsg "lisppaste" "coyo pasted \"(disassemble (lambda (a) (+ a 1)))\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87524" nil)
(3462640287 :privmsg "coyo" "oh neat" nil)
(3462640293 :privmsg "coyo" "that's extremely useful" nil)
(3462640298 :join "Aszarsha" nil "n=aszarsha@91-164-132-13.rev.libertysurf.net")
(3462640340 :privmsg "lisppaste" "levy annotated #87524 \"optimized for speed\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87524#1" nil)
(3462640357 :privmsg "p_l" "coyo: disassemble is also a great tool for optimization :-) (because you see what changes...)" nil)
(3462640372 :privmsg "coyo" "that's fascinating" nil)
(3462640376 :action "coyo" "is excited" nil)
(3462640387 :privmsg "levy" "you know that lisp is a slow interpreted language" nil)
(3462640411 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: be careful, you can spend hours trying to figure out what those disassemblies mean when you don't actually know how they work (I have...)" nil)
(3462640420 :privmsg "coyo" "okay" nil)
(3462640429 :privmsg "pkhuong" "p_l: hardware counters are ultimately more useful." nil)
(3462640440 :privmsg "Dawgmatix" "this is the time for me to pitch in and say - enjoy writing slow code" nil)
(3462640466 :join "djkthx" nil "n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu")
(3462640500 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: so I guess a general lesson that you can learn about modern CL compilers, from those two disassemblies, is the difference in the way the addition is done" nil)
(3462640504 :privmsg "p_l" "pkhuong: sure, but it helps to understand what changed :-)" nil)
(3462640513 :privmsg "levy" "kami-,  when building there are 3 continue restarts you will have select" nil)
(3462640540 :privmsg "levy" "kami-,  no oracle, maybe no sqlite installed and some constant whatnot" nil)
(3462640569 :action "coyo" "nods" nil)
(3462640573 :privmsg "Adlai" "In line C2 of the first disassembly, there's a call to another function. That function is called \"generic\" because it needs to deal with varying types" nil)
(3462640619 :join "Krystof" nil "n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk")
(3462640621 :privmsg "Adlai" "on the other hand, in the second disassembly, because you've declared that A is a fixnum, and that (+ a 1) is a fixnum, the compiler doesn't need to call the generic function" nil)
(3462640641 :privmsg "coyo" "ah!" nil)
(3462640643 :privmsg "Adlai" "it can directly use the processor's addition operation" nil)
(3462640682 :quit "ThomasI" "\"Bye Bye!\"" "n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi")
(3462640692 :privmsg "coyo" "whoa, wait a minute.." nil)
(3462640695 :privmsg "Adlai" "note however that the function will have undesired behavior if you pass something that's not a fixnum (or if you pass the largest positive fixnum) as A" nil)
(3462640717 :privmsg "coyo" "when i enter code to be interpreted, it's transformed into assembly on the fly?" nil)
(3462640726 :privmsg "p_l" "coyo: on some implementations, yes" nil)
(3462640726 :privmsg "Adlai" "in SBCL -- yes" nil)
(3462640733 :privmsg "coyo" "O.O" nil)
(3462640742 :privmsg "Adlai" "(although you can choose a setting which will interpret the code instead)" nil)
(3462640743 :privmsg "stassats`" "it is interpreted by your CPU" nil)
(3462640748 :action "coyo" "takes a cold shower and returns" nil)
(3462640764 :privmsg "coyo" ":3" nil)
(3462640765 :privmsg "Makoryu" "coyo: There are a number of languages that do this. They're just not the most widely-used :p" nil)
(3462640789 :privmsg "lisppaste" "levy annotated #87524 \"beware of optimizations\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87524#2" nil)
(3462640836 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: part of what makes this very practical is that CL is often developed in a bottom-up style, with many pieces building up to your final app which you can compile individually, on the fly, as you write them. Compiling a completed CL app from scratch actually still takes some time." nil)
(3462640846 :quit "greyhame" "\"leaving\"" "n=jao@75.Red-88-6-168.staticIP.rima-tde.net")
(3462640875 :privmsg "stassats`" "levy: that should be read as \"beware of (safety 0)\"" nil)
(3462640897 :privmsg "p_l" "though I believe a complex C++ project still compiles longer :D" nil)
(3462640933 :privmsg "Makoryu" "p_l: Longer than just about anything, really :p" nil)
(3462640934 :privmsg "Adlai" "p_l: yes, I imagine that Fare would not be writing XCVB if ITA used C++ -- instead, he'd be gibbering mad by now :P" nil)
(3462640937 :privmsg "coyo" "Adlai: that is significantly different than i expected :3" nil)
(3462640954 :privmsg "Fare" "rmmphnht aeutaheoda rnoe raoedu rnd raoeud hd ntd rnoeaeouoedi rnfdntdr.yfpvwqbxk" nil)
(3462640957 :privmsg "coyo" "so you develop the project over time, collecting functions and code?" nil)
(3462640970 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Adlai: I think fare's been gibbering mad for a while already, as you can see." nil)
(3462640983 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: I recommend that you look at some of the \"Practical\" chapters in PCL" nil)
(3462640994 :action "coyo" "reads" nil)
(3462641021 :action "p_l" "still considers the database his favourite" nil)
(3462641044 :privmsg "Adlai" "note to self: Extensible Component Verifiers and Builders Considered Harfmul" nil)
(3462641064 :join "mcspiff" nil "n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net")
(3462641074 :quit "tcr" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de")
(3462641100 :privmsg "Fare" "(note how I'm gibbering mad in dvorak)" nil)
(3462641104 :join "Summermute" nil "n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net")
(3462641106 :privmsg "p_l" "... can't wait for counter-article" nil)
(3462641115 :privmsg "lisppaste" "rme annotated #87524 \"ccl disassemble output, for comparison\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87524#3" nil)
(3462641117 :privmsg "serichsen" "good night" nil)
(3462641122 :privmsg "Adlai" "serichsen: goodnight!" nil)
(3462641189 :quit "serichsen" "\"leaving\"" "n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06c9af.pool.mediaWays.net")
(3462641227 :privmsg "p_l" "... CCL uses \"UUO\" in its internal assembly?" nil)
(3462641238 :privmsg "Fare" "(what's UUO?)" nil)
(3462641260 :privmsg "Fare" "(on the PPC, does it use EIEIO ?)" nil)
(3462641262 :privmsg "stassats`" "chemical element?" nil)
(3462641277 :privmsg "p_l" "Fare: I'm not sure what it means in CCL, but I recall UUOs from ITS" nil)
(3462641287 :quit "nha" "Remote closed the connection" "n=prefect@17-70.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch")
(3462641288 :privmsg "rme" "it means int #x1234" nil)
(3462641299 :privmsg "Adlai" "rme: When I do that same disassembly, I don't have a (recover-fn) at the beginning" nil)
(3462641325 :privmsg "Adlai" "ah rme is that from the PPC (or 32-bit x86)?" nil)
(3462641330 :privmsg "rme" "I guess the ITS uuo is where the name comes from." nil)
(3462641340 :privmsg "rme" "Adlai: that's from a 32-bit ccl" nil)
(3462641344 :join "bdowning" nil "n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net")
(3462641349 :privmsg "Adlai" "ok, yes, I'm on x86_64" nil)
(3462641373 :privmsg "rme" "(where #x1234 is the operand to the INT instruction)" nil)
(3462641411 :join "sepult" nil "n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-96.netcologne.de")
(3462641447 :privmsg "lisppaste" "Adlai annotated #87524 \"On CCL, with optimizers this time...\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87524#4" nil)
(3462641484 :privmsg "Adlai" "eh oops, I messed up the optimize declaration there." nil)
(3462641493 :privmsg "lisppaste" "lispm annotated #87524 \"lispm\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87524#5" nil)
(3462641496 :privmsg "Adlai" "looks like CCL guessed my intent, though :)" nil)
(3462641506 :privmsg "mcspiff" "So I was poking through the slime contrib today... I usually just stick the general fancy contrib, repl and fuzzy complete. Im wondering if there is any other \"must have\" contribs people use, under sbcl at least" nil)
(3462641534 :privmsg "Adlai" "lispm: what is that from? an actual \"LispM\"?" nil)
(3462641544 :privmsg "lispm" "yes" nil)
(3462641545 :action "coyo" "is hilighted by \"fuzzy\"" nil)
(3462641575 :privmsg "Adlai" "mcspiff: slime-fancy grabs pretty much everything, I think." nil)
(3462641593 :privmsg "stassats`" "well, not pretty much everything" nil)
(3462641601 :privmsg "Adlai" "it doesn't get slime-asdf" nil)
(3462641607 :privmsg "Adlai" "(I don't think)" nil)
(3462641609 :privmsg "mcspiff" "slime-asdf?" nil)
(3462641627 :privmsg "Fare" "what's slime-asdf?" nil)
(3462641628 :privmsg "stassats`" "Adlai: right" nil)
(3462641630 :privmsg "Adlai" "mcspiff: adds a few repl shortcuts for loading, compiling, and testing asdf systems, and opens all files that have warnings in them" nil)
(3462641643 :privmsg "stassats`" "my slime-setup argument is (slime-fancy slime-sbcl-exts slime-scheme slime-sprof)" nil)
(3462641669 :privmsg "mcspiff" "ah just read about slime-sprof today, might as well throw that in too" nil)
(3462641679 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Fare: ,load-system RET name RET" nil)
(3462641685 :privmsg "sykopomp" "and ,test-system RET name RET" nil)
(3462641695 :privmsg "Fare" "ok." nil)
(3462641711 :privmsg "johnny_z" "Adlai: before you said \"it's fine to get your SBCL from there FOR NOW, but don't get any more software from there\"" nil)
(3462641719 :privmsg "johnny_z" "Adlai: why is that so?" nil)
(3462641733 :privmsg "Adlai" "johnny_z: the Debian CL packages are not well maintained" nil)
(3462641743 :privmsg "johnny_z" "since when?" nil)
(3462641751 :privmsg "johnny_z" "it has become public?" nil)
(3462641757 :privmsg "johnny_z" "or is your own conclusion?" nil)
(3462641767 :part "gz_" nil "n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com")
(3462641771 :privmsg "mcspiff" "stassats`: thanks" nil)
(3462641777 :privmsg "sykopomp" "johnny_z: regular visitors to this channel complaining about stuff not working, when they actually have something several months old." nil)
(3462641780 :privmsg "Adlai" "I'm echoing a sentiment that I've heard often in this channel..." nil)
(3462641789 :join "gz_" nil "n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com")
(3462641789 :part "gz_" nil "n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com")
(3462641803 :quit "dandersen" "\"leaving\"" "n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen")
(3462641808 :privmsg "sykopomp" "not to mention, it seems to be installed in a funky way, which is not one of the more standardish methods used to install CL libs, such as clbuild." nil)
(3462641825 :quit "bread08" "\"Leaving\"" "n=bread08@80.31.191.57")
(3462641832 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: hu.dwim.wui/test/component.lisp +demo-stylesheet-uris+" nil)
(3462641836 :privmsg "Adlai" "hmmm what about making a debian clbuild package available?" nil)
(3462641855 :privmsg "Adlai" "that way, people could just get clbuild, and then use that to set up SBCL, slime ,etc" nil)
(3462641874 :privmsg "stassats`" "Peter van Eynde said it might be a good idea" nil)
(3462641875 :privmsg "johnny_z" "so which repo is the best?" nil)
(3462641881 :privmsg "johnny_z" "red hats?" nil)
(3462641892 :privmsg "Adlai" "johnny_z: the SBCL repo" nil)
(3462641892 :quit "stipet" "\"Goodnight!\"" "n=user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se")
(3462641902 :privmsg "coyo" "oh i see, so a getf is like a dictionary in python" nil)
(3462641913 :privmsg "johnny_z" "i'm talking about distro repos" nil)
(3462641925 :privmsg "sykopomp" "I'd rather not use repos for CL stuff in general. In the case of arch linux, I like using the actual arch package for CL implementations, since they're generally up-to-date and sanely compiled." nil)
(3462641928 :privmsg "stassats`" "coyo: rather ASSOC" nil)
(3462641931 :privmsg "Adlai" "johnny_z: I don't know of any distro that handles CL stuff well" nil)
(3462641945 :privmsg "Adlai" "not even my beloved Archlinux" nil)
(3462641952 :action "fe[nl]ix" "waves hands" nil)
(3462641953 :privmsg "_3b" "gentoo actually has people who support it on this network, arch is probably second from what i've seen" nil)
(3462641959 :privmsg "johnny_z" "for example, in the case of ubuntu, what has not gone well????" nil)
(3462641998 :privmsg "johnny_z" "what does now work in theri cl implements?" nil)
(3462642001 :privmsg "stassats`" "johnny_z: there's no one who want to maintain it, obviously" nil)
(3462642026 :privmsg "sykopomp" "johnny_z: one annoying one is having an ancient SBCL. At least, last time I checked." nil)
(3462642029 :privmsg "Adlai" "johnny_z: keep in mind that for some things (including the CL packages), Ubuntu's repos are the same as debian's" nil)
(3462642052 :privmsg "coyo" "stats: i notice a lot of people on freenode affix their nicks with `" nil)
(3462642053 :privmsg "sykopomp" "rolling-release distros really play along much nicer with the way CL software is usually distributed." nil)
(3462642056 :privmsg "johnny_z" "yes" nil)
(3462642058 :quit "Jasko" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net")
(3462642058 :privmsg "coyo" "what does that mean?" nil)
(3462642060 :privmsg "johnny_z" "basically they are the same" nil)
(3462642079 :privmsg "Adlai" "coyo: many IRC clients do that if your nickname is taken" nil)
(3462642080 :privmsg "stassats`" "coyo: we drink Kool Aid" nil)
(3462642089 :quit "nvoorhies" nil "n=nvoorhie@nmd.sbx05947.fulleca.wayport.net")
(3462642094 :privmsg "johnny_z" "so archlinux has the best CL stuff?" nil)
(3462642095 :privmsg "Adlai" "some people like to leave it" nil)
(3462642140 :privmsg "sykopomp" "johnny_z: gentoo has pretty good support, too." nil)
(3462642153 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Arch would, if anyone actually bothered to write PKGBUILDs for all the software out there." nil)
(3462642156 :privmsg "sykopomp" "but that's a bit of a pita." nil)
(3462642161 :privmsg "sykopomp" "so I just use clbuild" nil)
(3462642165 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, continue" nil)
(3462642165 :privmsg "sykopomp" "clbuild is highly recommended." nil)
(3462642200 :privmsg "johnny_z" "what is clbuild for?" nil)
(3462642216 :privmsg "sykopomp" "installing lisp software." nil)
(3462642306 :privmsg "johnny_z" "is it like darcs for haskell?" nil)
(3462642324 :privmsg "sykopomp" "no" nil)
(3462642338 :join "_jason0524" nil "n=thot@59-105-27-43.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw")
(3462642342 :privmsg "stassats`" "darcs isn't for haskell" nil)
(3462642346 :quit "djkthx" "Remote closed the connection" "n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu")
(3462642350 :join "Adlai`" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462642351 :privmsg "sykopomp" "it's more like cabal" nil)
(3462642357 :privmsg "sykopomp" "except clbuild sucks balls." nil)
(3462642365 :privmsg "sykopomp" "but it's the best we've got for now." nil)
(3462642370 :privmsg "johnny_z" "sykopomp: yes ,  sorry" nil)
(3462642373 :quit "Adlai" "Nick collision from services." "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462642376 :nick "Adlai`" "Adlai" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462642377 :privmsg "johnny_z" "i dont know why i fixated on darcs" nil)
(3462642380 :privmsg "johnny_z" "i meant cabal" nil)
(3462642403 :quit "johnny_z" nil "n=anonymou@217.24.250.130")
(3462642404 :privmsg "Adlai" "minion: logs?" nil)
(3462642404 :privmsg "minion" "logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000)" nil)
(3462642427 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "sykopomp: no, the equivalent of cabal would be asdf. you certainly meant cabal-install" nil)
(3462642428 :join "mishoo_" nil "n=mishoo@86-124-79-237.iasi.cablelink.ro")
(3462642437 :privmsg "sykopomp" "fe[nl]ix: yes, that. Sorry :)" nil)
(3462642495 :quit "mishoo" "Nick collision from services." "n=mishoo@86-124-79-237.iasi.cablelink.ro")
(3462642500 :nick "mishoo_" "mishoo" "n=mishoo@86-124-79-237.iasi.cablelink.ro")
(3462642531 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: yes. build completed." nil)
(3462642534 :privmsg "mishoo" "guys, what's this \"dwim\" thing anyway?" nil)
(3462642552 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, hu.dwim.home --help" nil)
(3462642555 :join "peddie_" nil "n=peddie@c-67-170-201-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net")
(3462642558 :privmsg "levy" "or just start it" nil)
(3462642560 :join "wchogg" nil "n=wchogg@host-243-188.pubnet.pdx.edu")
(3462642585 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, BTW, build-image.sh supports building an image from another" nil)
(3462642596 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, so you don't have to wait so long" nil)
(3462642598 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: wow! command line usage" nil)
(3462642612 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, database is not used for now" nil)
(3462642635 :privmsg "levy" "but surely will need to for the blog" nil)
(3462642650 :quit "spilman" "\"Quitte\"" "n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-98-108.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3462642685 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: hmm. unhandled condition in --disable-debugger mode, quitting" nil)
(3462642726 :quit "proun" "\"leaving\"" "n=proun@cpe-76-180-85-22.buffalo.res.rr.com")
(3462642753 :join "Adlai`" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462642763 :privmsg "levy" "kami-,  mkdir /tmp/wui" nil)
(3462642764 :privmsg "lisppaste" "kami- pasted \"error starting hu.dwim.home\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87525" nil)
(3462642768 :quit "Adlai" "Nick collision from services." "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462642770 :privmsg "levy" "maybe" nil)
(3462642780 :nick "Adlai`" "Adlai" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462642792 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: no /tmp/wui is already there" nil)
(3462642799 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, oh no, that's an easy one" nil)
(3462642809 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, a one liner package problem" nil)
(3462642819 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, I just not remember which package and where, moment" nil)
(3462642906 :join "antoszka_" nil "n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka")
(3462642918 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "levy: that's the bordeaux-thread stuff..." nil)
(3462642932 :privmsg "levy" "I know, I'm already putting it up on the server" nil)
(3462642939 :quit "antoszka_" "Client Quit" "n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka")
(3462642940 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "i'll commit a change that will get rid of a bogus usage of with-timeout sometime tomorrow" nil)
(3462642955 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "it should be a with-deadline" nil)
(3462642962 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "#+sbcl for now" nil)
(3462642980 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "but i'm going offline now... see you guys" nil)
(3462642989 :join "catzilla" nil "n=catzilla@unaffiliated/catzilla")
(3462642992 :privmsg "kami-" "bye" nil)
(3462643009 :quit "attila_lendvai" "\"...\"" "n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu")
(3462643054 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, darcs pull http://dwim.hu/darcs/bordeaux-threads" nil)
(3462643068 :privmsg "levy" "3 pathces" nil)
(3462643071 :privmsg "levy" "at least" nil)
(3462643079 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: will do" nil)
(3462643127 :quit "reprore" "Remote closed the connection" "n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462643137 :part "catzilla" nil "n=catzilla@unaffiliated/catzilla")
(3462643153 :quit "manuel___" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=manuel@pD9E6DBDA.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3462643158 :join "manuel_" nil "n=manuel@pD9E6DBDA.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3462643189 :privmsg "coyo" "o.O" nil)
(3462643195 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, seems some patches are already in the mainstream repo" nil)
(3462643223 :join "reprore" nil "n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462643296 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: I had the official repo, here" nil)
(3462643331 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, yeah I guess because I forgot to put up the branch on the server" nil)
(3462643339 :privmsg "levy" "I think that branch will be removed soon" nil)
(3462643341 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "levy: I merged those patches yesterday(more or less)" nil)
(3462643351 :privmsg "levy" "fe[nl]ix, nice :-)" nil)
(3462643380 :privmsg "levy" "fe[nl]ix, I should give a try than, it's just too late" nil)
(3462643430 :quit "peddie" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=peddie@c-67-170-201-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net")
(3462643594 :quit "reprore" "Remote closed the connection" "n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462643675 :quit "Davidbrcz" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr")
(3462643708 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: that error is fixed, but the first request leads to a backtrace" nil)
(3462643777 :privmsg "lisppaste" "kami- annotated #87525 \"next error\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87525#1" nil)
(3462643779 :quit "_jason0524" "Client Quit" "n=thot@59-105-27-43.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw")
(3462643838 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, hmm, some create-links,sh should be run somewhere" nil)
(3462643848 :join "dtulig" nil "n=user@adsl-99-169-41-182.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net")
(3462643867 :privmsg "levy" "are there any links in your hu.dwim.home/www?" nil)
(3462643914 :join "lpolzer_" nil "n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-221-176.pools.arcor-ip.net")
(3462643933 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, cd hu.dwim.home/www ; sh etc/create-links.sh" nil)
(3462643985 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: I did run it, but it doesn't create a dojo link" nil)
(3462643989 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "rme: thanks" nil)
(3462643993 :join "Jasko" nil "n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net")
(3462643995 :quit "Edico" "\"Ex-Chat\"" "n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico")
(3462644164 :quit "Ralith" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=ralith@69.90.48.127")
(3462644173 :quit "lhz" "\"Leaving\"" "n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se")
(3462644210 :quit "pepone" "\"KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3437, sources date: 20090703, built on: 2009/09/09 21:03:17 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/\"" "n=pepone@91.117.11.105")
(3462644258 :privmsg "levy" "is there a convention for a one character sign for being optional/mandatory?" nil)
(3462644261 :privmsg "levy" "o/m?" nil)
(3462644289 :quit "dtulig" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=user@adsl-99-169-41-182.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net")
(3462644291 :quit "postamar" nil "n=postamar@x-132-204-255-168.xtpr.umontreal.ca")
(3462644361 :quit "mcspiff" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net")
(3462644409 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, try adding it by hand" nil)
(3462644453 :privmsg "levy" "ln ../../hu.dwim.wui/www/dojo-18738 dojo" nil)
(3462644465 :privmsg "levy" "hmm, that should not be needed btw" nil)
(3462644496 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, same error still?" nil)
(3462644518 :quit "rickardg" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=user@c-4e7271d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se")
(3462644525 :join "Geralt" nil "n=Geralt@p5B32D1F2.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3462644531 :quit "Geralt" "Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt")
(3462644552 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: the dojo/ link IS needed. And it is not created by the shell script." nil)
(3462644560 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: after creating it by hand, it works" nil)
(3462644608 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, hmm, attila knows better what is the intention about that link, but anyway I'm happy you managed it" nil)
(3462644656 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: the link is needed, because tundra.css is searched under /static/dojo/...." nil)
(3462644673 :join "bombshelter13_" nil "n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com")
(3462644705 :privmsg "kami-" "levy: the dojo-relative-path stuff is expected to use the url with dojo-18... ?" nil)
(3462644714 :privmsg "lisppaste" "levy pasted \"hu.dwim.wui hello world web server\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87528" nil)
(3462644720 :privmsg "levy" "kami-, ok" nil)
(3462644737 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462644749 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462644813 :privmsg "kami-" "Thank you, levy. I'll go to bed." nil)
(3462644819 :privmsg "kami-" "Good night, everyone." nil)
(3462644828 :privmsg "Adlai" "gooodnight kami-" nil)
(3462644832 :action "Adlai" "heads off too" nil)
(3462644837 :join "rares" nil "n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET")
(3462644844 :privmsg "Adlai" "farewell, fellow seekers of the ineffable flame" nil)
(3462644867 :privmsg "levy" "time to leave, bb" nil)
(3462644871 :privmsg "lispm" "is it already 03:00?" nil)
(3462644879 :privmsg "Adlai" "wow, everybody is bailing out all at once!" nil)
(3462644883 :privmsg "Adlai" "heh" nil)
(3462644887 :privmsg "levy" "no, it's just 23:48, :-)" nil)
(3462644890 :quit "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net")
(3462644911 :privmsg "lispm" "actually one of my friends started working at this time every day" nil)
(3462644911 :quit "levy" "\"...\"" "n=levy@apn-89-223-246-229.vodafone.hu")
(3462644944 :join "pixel5" nil "n=pixel@copei.de")
(3462644945 :privmsg "_3b" "doesn't sound any worse than any other 'same time every day' schedule :p" nil)
(3462644966 :privmsg "mishoo" "yeah, the problem is \"working\" :)" nil)
(3462644997 :privmsg "_3b" "nah, problem is being awake at same time" nil)
(3462645035 :privmsg "_3b" "(unless you limit 'working' to having a job, in which case that part might be bad too)" nil)
(3462645049 :action "coyo" "will still be here for some time" nil)
(3462645101 :join "schoppenhauer" nil "n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer")
(3462645181 :privmsg "mishoo" "with or without a job, I limit 'working' to 'making a living', and it's always boring.. :-/  but one has to do it" nil)
(3462645239 :privmsg "schme" "mishoo: That's bullcrap." nil)
(3462645334 :quit "Adlai" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3462645343 :action "_3b" "gets back to not boring, but not quite 'making a living' yet working :p" nil)
(3462645352 :part "tmh" nil "n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh")
(3462645367 :privmsg "schme" "_3b: one of these days you'll be making a grand living from rotating dwarves!" nil)
(3462645438 :privmsg "_3b" "heh, at the moment cheesy flash games seems like an easier route to making some sort of living, if not quite grand" nil)
(3462645508 :privmsg "_3b" "spinning dwarves is just a temporary vacation :)" nil)
(3462645527 :quit "lpolzer" "Connection timed out" "n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-224-065.pools.arcor-ip.net")
(3462645556 :privmsg "schme" "maybe.. spinning 'em in flash, eh eh?" nil)
(3462645561 :privmsg "schme" "win - win" nil)
(3462645577 :privmsg "_3b" "maybe, that would take a bit more work on potimization for my flash compiler" nil)
(3462645583 :privmsg "_3b" "*optimization" nil)
(3462645603 :privmsg "schme" "You have a flash compiler?" nil)
(3462645626 :privmsg "_3b" "yeah, surely you have seen me linking stuff from it here or in #lispgames" nil)
(3462645652 :privmsg "schme" "Possibly. I forget stuff :) and I don't keep track of flash. (:" nil)
(3462645660 :privmsg "mishoo" "_3b: flash compiler?  can we see it? :)" nil)
(3462645679 :privmsg "mishoo" "I'm using mtasc for such things, it seems rather unmaintained but still works fine" nil)
(3462645684 :privmsg "_3b" "you can see an old version, haven't published the current version yet" nil)
(3462645688 :quit "hugod" nil "n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca")
(3462645729 :privmsg "_3b" "planning to try to work on gettin that cleaned up/released around end of this month/beginning of next" nil)
(3462645758 :join "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net")
(3462645775 :privmsg "_3b" "then try to start writing silly flash games, and see if lisp can cut dev time enough to make it profitable :p" nil)
(3462645803 :privmsg "schme" "Wasn't there that flash game with lisp in the background." nil)
(3462645806 :privmsg "schme" "neurosomething" nil)
(3462645816 :privmsg "Xach" "neuroarena" nil)
(3462645819 :privmsg "Xach" "also puzzlefarter" nil)
(3462645823 :privmsg "_3b" "neuroarena, has a lisp server if i remember right" nil)
(3462645842 :action "schme" "googles puzzlefarter." nil)
(3462645852 :privmsg "schme" "it sounds.. intense" nil)
(3462645865 :privmsg "_3b" "did that have any lisp involved in the actual game?" nil)
(3462645881 :action "_3b" "thought it was just web infrastructure around it that used lisp" nil)
(3462645882 :privmsg "Xach" "No. Tools only." nil)
(3462645936 :privmsg "pixel5" "LOL" nil)
(3462646061 :quit "milanj" "\"Leaving\"" "n=milan@79.101.79.143")
(3462646063 :privmsg "_3b" "guess i should translate cameras and lights next, theni think i will have all of the assimp scene data converted to lisp" nil)
(3462646090 :privmsg "_3b" "need to clean up the material stuff though, once i figure out how it actually works :)" nil)
(3462646126 :part "kami-" nil "n=user@unaffiliated/kami-")
(3462646131 :privmsg "schme" "_3b: Are you making a 3d version of dwarf fortress there?" nil)
(3462646140 :join "dreish" nil "n=dreish@minus.dreish.org")
(3462646156 :privmsg "_3b" "nope, just writing bindings for the a lib, no actual specific use in mind" nil)
(3462646158 :privmsg "Fare" "3d dwarf fortress in Lisp... drooooool" nil)
(3462646174 :action "_3b" "should play dwarf fortress one of these days" nil)
(3462646197 :join "Ralith" nil "n=ralith@69.90.48.127")
(3462646227 :action "coyo" "sighs, contented, and takes a break from reading" nil)
(3462646272 :privmsg "schme" "_3b: I tried playing it. People highly recommended it. I didn't understand it, and nothing seemed to happen for ages (:" nil)
(3462646368 :privmsg "_3b" "yeah, not sure the specific implementation is something i would like, but it has a lot of overlap with my interests" nil)
(3462646379 :action "_3b" "would probably actually like a 3d lisp version :)" nil)
(3462646483 :join "upy" nil "n=upy@85.139.121.254")
(3462646488 :privmsg "upy" "hi" nil)
(3462646493 :join "newcmr" nil "i=5816ae66@gateway/web/freenode/x-pkcaajfokajcsmvg")
(3462646513 :quit "mcdonji" "\"Ex-Chat\"" "n=mcdonji@70.75.0.48")
(3462646657 :action "Fare" "stays miles away from dwarf fortress for fear of losing what is left of his free time." nil)
(3462646742 :privmsg "_3b" "yeah, that sort of thing can be a problem" nil)
(3462646885 :join "chessguy" nil "n=chessguy@pool-173-73-92-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net")
(3462646920 :privmsg "coyo" "my friends are in the middle of a dwarf fortress craze" nil)
(3462646931 :privmsg "coyo" "they are currently playing a succession game" nil)
(3462646944 :privmsg "coyo" "i opted out because i dont like playing single player games" nil)
(3462646946 :join "danlei" nil "n=user@pD9E2FC20.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3462646988 :privmsg "coyo" "i may end up joining in since they seem so determined to have me" nil)
(3462647329 :part "newcmr" nil "i=5816ae66@gateway/web/freenode/x-pkcaajfokajcsmvg")
(3462647396 :join "kmcorbett" nil "n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462647414 :quit "Athas" "Remote closed the connection" "n=athas@shop3.diku.dk")
(3462647425 :part "upy" nil "n=upy@85.139.121.254")
(3462647610 :join "sykopomp|out" nil "n=user@c-75-72-22-252.hsd1.mn.comcast.net")
(3462647773 :quit "coderdad_" "Remote closed the connection" "n=coderdad@65.67.252.194")
(3462647808 :join "coderdad" nil "n=coderdad@65.67.252.194")
(3462647815 :quit "coliv" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=Coliveir@12.15.114.194")
(3462648184 :quit "varjag" "\"Leaving\"" "n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com")
(3462648301 :quit "``Erik" "\"leaving\"" "i=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net")
(3462648370 :quit "phf" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@146.145.38.2")
(3462648434 :quit "kmcorbett1" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462648686 :quit "OmniMancer" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=OmniManc@219-89-108-42.jetstart.xtra.co.nz")
(3462648820 :join "jsoft" nil "n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft")
(3462648884 :quit "coderdad" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=coderdad@65.67.252.194")
(3462648994 :quit "davazp" "\"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)\"" "n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net")
(3462649086 :part "rares" nil "n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET")
(3462649101 :join "sellout" nil "n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462649149 :join "davazp" nil "n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net")
(3462649169 :privmsg "sykopomp|out" "hello all from the tc lisp meeting o/" nil)
(3462649206 :join "ltriant" nil "n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au")
(3462649230 :join "leo2007" nil "n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk")
(3462649271 :quit "mrSpec" nil "n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec")
(3462649284 :join "mrSpec" nil "n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec")
(3462649357 :join "``Erik" nil "i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net")
(3462649416 :quit "``Erik" "Client Quit" "i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net")
(3462649501 :quit "mrSpec" "Remote closed the connection" "n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec")
(3462649655 :join "``Erik" nil "i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net")
(3462649658 :quit "Krystof" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk")
(3462649730 :privmsg "fe[nl]ix" "sykopomp|out: who else is there ?" nil)
(3462649732 :privmsg "Xach" "sykopomp|out: hello!" nil)
(3462649735 :privmsg "Xach" "OMouse?" nil)
(3462649754 :privmsg "sykopomp|out" "Xach: no omouse here, optikalmouse is over in Toronto" nil)
(3462649765 :privmsg "sykopomp|out" "fe[nl]ix: um, not a lot of people right now. No one from #lisp I think." nil)
(3462649789 :privmsg "Xach" "oh, right. for some reason i thought tc lisp was toronto, canada lisp" nil)
(3462649792 :action "Xach" "shamed" nil)
(3462649798 :privmsg "sykopomp|out" "sorry, twin cities" nil)
(3462649976 :privmsg "sykopomp|out" "looks like the talk is mainly about CCL's ffi" nil)
(3462650009 :join "OmniMancer" nil "n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65")
(3462650033 :privmsg "Dawgmatix" "is someone recording the meetup on video ?" nil)
(3462650073 :privmsg "sykopomp|out" "hm. It doesn't look like it, unless someone has a camera/webcam hidden somewhere." nil)
(3462650196 :quit "stassats`" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats")
(3462650197 :privmsg "Dawgmatix" ":)" nil)
(3462650220 :privmsg "Dawgmatix" "i need lisp role models ;)" nil)
(3462650241 :action "_3b" "can ffi to assimp from ccl :p" nil)
(3462650244 :privmsg "sykopomp|out" "Dawgmatix: some of the previous lisp meetings are recorded on video" nil)
(3462650258 :privmsg "sykopomp|out" "_3b: the guy doing the presentation is doing stuff involving an actionscript compiler." nil)
(3462650270 :privmsg "_3b" "sounds like fun" nil)
(3462650273 :privmsg "Dawgmatix" "_3b -> is the assimp code available somewhere ?" nil)
(3462650279 :privmsg "sykopomp|out" "from what I gathered, he's doing something weird where the compiler is in ocaml, and he uses it from lisp or something like that?" nil)
(3462650297 :join "reprore_" nil "n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462650298 :privmsg "_3b" "Dawgmatix: http://github.com/3b/classimp" nil)
(3462650299 :join "mgr" nil "n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de")
(3462650315 :privmsg "_3b" "HaXe?" nil)
(3462650316 :privmsg "Dawgmatix" "thankoo" nil)
(3462650331 :privmsg "_3b" "Dawgmatix: don't expect to be able to do much with it atm though" nil)
(3462650341 :privmsg "Dawgmatix" "just going to read it for ffi-foo" nil)
(3462650358 :privmsg "_3b" "you need a few hacked libs (particularly on ccl)" nil)
(3462650376 :privmsg "_3b" "ah, feel free to read it then, dunno if it is particularly good style though, still figuring out the lib" nil)
(3462650393 :privmsg "Dawgmatix" "i plan to work through the art of multiprocessor programming and implement the algos + data structures present in the book" nil)
(3462650394 :action "_3b" "just started out with verrazano, and is cleaning it up from there" nil)
(3462650407 :quit "mishoo" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=mishoo@86-124-79-237.iasi.cablelink.ro")
(3462650416 :privmsg "Dawgmatix" "so i might need some blocking primitives in c :)" nil)
(3462650451 :privmsg "_3b" "Dawgmatix: that sounds risky, probably better to try to go through whatever the lisp provides" nil)
(3462650479 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Dawgmatix: eh? your implementation probably provides most of what you need, and FFI is unlikely to be well-suited for the rest." nil)
(3462650487 :privmsg "Dawgmatix" "i see." nil)
(3462650540 :join "jeti`" nil "n=jeti@p548EFDFE.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3462650560 :quit "LiamH" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=none@common-lisp.net")
(3462650678 :privmsg "sykopomp|out" "_3b: what groveler did cl-opengl use to generate initial bindings/" nil)
(3462650689 :join "rtoym" nil "n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com")
(3462650718 :privmsg "_3b" "sykopomp|out: no groveler, it parses various files from opengl.org, see the tools dir" nil)
(3462650733 :privmsg "sykopomp|out" "oic" nil)
(3462650743 :quit "Hun" "Remote closed the connection" "n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de")
(3462650769 :privmsg "_3b" "not completely sure that is actually the best strategy, but more or less works" nil)
(3462650808 :privmsg "_3b" "and better options would probably involve something similar anyway" nil)
(3462650969 :join "HET2" nil "n=diman@81.106.134.194")
(3462650987 :join "hugod" nil "n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442325.dsl.bell.ca")
(3462651055 :quit "ve" "\"leaving\"" "n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk")
(3462651059 :quit "jeti" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=jeti@p548EFC69.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3462651529 :quit "Fare" "\"Leaving\"" "n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com")
(3462651707 :quit "reprore_" "Remote closed the connection" "n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462651930 :quit "kejsaren" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
(3462652076 :privmsg "gigamonkey" "pkhuong: likely." nil)
(3462652077 :join "djkthx" nil "n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu")
(3462652101 :join "dwh" nil "n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net")
(3462652106 :quit "sellout" nil "n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462652142 :join "reprore_" nil "n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp")
(3462652145 :join "ruediger" nil "n=ruediger@93-82-4-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at")
(3462652157 :join "kejsaren" nil "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
(3462652254 :quit "HET2" "\"This computer has gone to sleep\"" "n=diman@81.106.134.194")
(3462652397 :join "sellout" nil "n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3462652504 :join "fusss" nil "n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au")
(3462652591 :join "_jason9406" nil "n=thot@59-105-27-43.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw")
(3462652595 :privmsg "fusss" "good moaning all" nil)
(3462652683 :action "redline6561" "wishes he was hacking lisp instead of doing CLRS hw" nil)
(3462652724 :quit "OmniMancer" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65")
(3462652780 :join "OmniMancer" nil "n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65")