00:01:23 -!- saikat__ is now known as saikat_ 00:01:27 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:02:37 -!- pepone [n=pepone@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit ["KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3437, sources date: 20090703, built on: 2009/09/09 21:03:17 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/"] 00:11:44 -!- Kickaha [n=user@92.250.103.245] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:15:45 pixel5 [n=pixel@copei.de] has joined #lisp 00:16:13 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dman@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:19:09 erg_ [n=erg@69.93.127.154] has joined #lisp 00:20:41 -!- erg [n=erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:21:46 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:29 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["good night everyone!"] 00:28:18 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:34:22 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:35:26 Ralith_ [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has joined #lisp 00:35:38 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:35:48 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 00:38:47 coliv [n=Coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:13 -!- jleija [n=jleija@adsl-91-1-29.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:42:36 pepone [n=pepone@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:02 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 00:45:01 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:46:49 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AA88.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:49:07 marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has joined #lisp 00:49:17 dysinger [n=dysinger@97-126-108-156.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:36 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:50:44 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:28 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@KD124213182069.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:51:37 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:51:51 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-smtbmmvkwgqguhoj] has joined #lisp 00:54:32 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Verlassend"] 00:55:26 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:56:07 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:04:18 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:24 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:06:07 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:08:25 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 01:08:37 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:09:13 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:09:26 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:09:39 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-202-25.we.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:10:11 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:12:10 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:12:48 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:13:34 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@78-69-144-82-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:14:23 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:28 antgreen` [n=user@bas2-toronto06-1177888317.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:17:20 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:18:23 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@209.131.62.113] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:23:35 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:26:13 c|mell [n=cmell@y192023.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:28:43 -!- roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 01:28:44 prxq_ [n=mommer@f051199061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:31:34 -!- antgreen [n=user@bas2-toronto06-1177888317.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:34:25 -!- antgreen` [n=user@bas2-toronto06-1177888317.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:36:43 Xach: herep 01:37:12 what did I miss? 01:37:43 gigamonkey: yo! 01:39:02 bad timing, i'm just leaving. adios! 01:39:58 Bye. 01:40:06 When we meet again, I have a question about your Gnus setup. 01:40:14 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@89.180.191.26] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 01:41:31 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-202-25.we.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:41:37 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824085414]"] 01:42:29 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 01:42:57 -!- prxq [n=mommer@92.226.141.1] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:43:22 antgreen [n=user@bas2-toronto06-1177888317.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:45:26 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:49 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:47:22 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:52:28 clhs getf 01:52:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_getf.htm 01:55:04 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@y192023.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:56:04 yoonkn [n=yoonkn@112.169.40.70] has joined #lisp 01:58:13 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@97-126-108-156.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:00:09 -!- tau is now known as jfkdjf 02:00:36 -!- jfkdjf is now known as tau 02:02:20 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:02:34 hay guys 02:03:06 what can I do in a lambda list to get both argument N and a list containing all arguments after and including N? 02:03:54 -!- envi_office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:04:40 <_3b> &rest r &aux (n (car r)) ? 02:04:41 jaws [n=jolyonwh@cb8faac9.atp.nicta.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:04:42 (a &rest b &aux c (cons a b)) 02:04:55 *Fare* released xcvb .373 - now you don't HAVE to dump an initial image 02:04:58 s0ber [i=pie@118-160-168-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:02 (a &rest b &aux (c (cons a b))) 02:05:21 is it OK if the ASDF backend produces a serial system? 02:06:24 Fare: the asdf backend makes xcvb systems loadable via asdf? 02:06:26 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-35-218-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:06:43 drewc, will, when I will have written it 02:07:03 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:07:13 Ralith: You might also want to look at destructuring-bind. 02:07:21 question being, is it OK to have a :serial t system, or should I try hard to do better? 02:07:38 Fare: honestly, i think you have to try hard to do better. 02:07:53 ok 02:08:31 What happens if a destructuring-bind doesn't match? 02:08:34 Fare: can't asdf-dependency-grovel create a non :serial .asd from a :serial t system? 02:08:38 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-204-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:47 oh hey it's a Makoryu! 02:09:08 Ralith: Bonjeeeooooorrrno 02:09:21 hm, aux kinda seems like cheating. 02:09:28 I've got what I wanted now anyway 02:09:41 Ralith: &aux is basically a toplevel let 02:09:47 yeah, I know 02:09:52 that's why it seems like cheating :P 02:10:28 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:10:33 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.94.233] has joined #lisp 02:10:43 Ralith: i've used &aux at times as it shows up in the argument list, which can serve to indicate what the function is going to do with the values i've passed it without needing english docs. 02:10:44 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:11:20 Ralith: but if that's not the case, then &aux leeks information it shouldn't, so use LET 02:13:28 envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 02:13:56 drewc, yes, but in that case, you won't need it 02:14:31 drewc, I was just being lazy, I suppose. All the dependencies are in XCVB already, it's just a matter of reencoding them properly for ASDF. 02:15:27 Fare: well, if the deps are in there, you could always wait for an enterprising xcvb user to implement it for you. 02:15:51 An enterprising xcvb user? I haven't heard of that. 02:16:37 The most enterprising will try it, find a weird case of it-doesn't-work-out-of-the-box and report it. 02:16:43 For which I am thankful 02:17:09 yeah, that's as far as i got too :) 02:17:13 in any case, I listen to the remarks of the users and potential users, and am bringing the features one by one. 02:17:34 drewc, with a few users like you, it's now more out-of-the-box friendly than before. 02:18:05 the documentation is still pretty minimal in terms of examples and specification. 02:18:08 i'll give it another go when i get the chance. 02:18:12 thanks :) 02:18:21 M-. is all the docs i need :) 02:18:56 see INTERNALS.rest for how to start a SLIME on xcvb 02:19:21 other than painfully configuring ASDF then (asdf:load-system :xcvb) of course 02:19:48 Would including the parsing of an ASDF_PATH in asdf.lisp be a good thing or a bad thing? 02:19:57 something along the lines of XCVB_PATH. 02:20:11 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 02:21:31 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:22:38 i can't see why it would be a bad thing. 02:24:06 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-176-196.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 02:24:26 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-176-196.liwest.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:25:38 for an ASDF dependency tree, is it better to list every single dependency (ie, all the way down the "tree" of dependencies), or only the minimal ones? 02:26:11 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:33 OK, but at least I hope it's OK to have a flat system without submodules, only files as components. 02:30:27 Adlai: there is no correct answer to this question. Ideally, you'd list all the *direct* dependencies (things your file directly references) 02:30:43 nah, ideally, these dependencies would be *deduced* from the source. 02:31:12 so does that mean, for example, that each file should list the packages file as a direct dependency? 02:31:23 -!- gonzojive [n=red@DN800cf709.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 02:32:01 probably 02:32:05 which both sucks and is a deep CL suckage 02:32:19 in practice, I'd say, list a minimal list of dependencies. 02:33:04 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442325.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:33:54 gonzojive [n=red@DN800cf709.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 02:35:06 Hmm, support for deducing inter-file dependencies sounds like it would have profound effects on the dynamic operations of CL. 02:35:43 *_3b* votes to just get rid of files :p 02:35:58 Might make distribution trickier. 02:36:24 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:36:30 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:36:51 <_3b> nah, it can still serialize to something that happens to behave exactly the same as far as distribution is concerned 02:37:03 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 02:38:10 Reminds me of resource forks. 02:39:03 <_3b> i just mean 'files' should be an implementation detail instead of a major part of the UI for programming 02:39:30 people using clsql-mysql will probably need to write an around method for DATABASE-LIST-TABLES and cache the result of "SHOW FULL TABLES". Similarly, they should take care to push all new tables they create during a single interaction into that list. SHOW FULL TABLES locks the entire database during that little instance it runs, and this could result in a nasty ghost bug 02:39:53 3b: Has implications for separate compilation, although I'm not sure how much of a deal that is these days. 02:40:03 -!- gonzojive [n=red@DN800cf709.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 02:40:23 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-32-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:41:22 do a break-point on database-list-tables and see how often that fucker is called; no reason it shouldn't cache the result of the expensive query it uses, imo 02:41:24 <_3b> Zhivago: yeah, this is more a 'start from scratch' thing than a cosmetic fix :) 02:41:35 is there a way to refer to the home directory from sbcl? 02:41:45 <_3b> clhs user-home-directory 02:41:45 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for user-home-directory. 02:41:57 <_3b> clhs user-homedir-pathname 02:41:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_user_h.htm 02:41:59 minion: tilda for DeusExPikachu 02:42:00 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``tilda''. 02:42:05 minion: tilde for DeusExPikachu 02:42:05 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``tilde''. 02:42:09 hmmm 02:42:25 DeusExPikachu: somebody has a tilde.lisp, which lets you use ~/foo in SBCL 02:42:28 Try (apropos "HOME") 02:46:08 DeusExPikachu: (trivial-shell (get-env-var "$HOME")) 02:46:51 got it thanks all 02:47:48 -!- cmsimon [n=cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:50:16 DeusExPikachu: USER-HOMEDIR-PATHNAME!!!1 02:50:36 it is in the bloody spec! 02:51:36 wow, I was very close to recommending a contortion based on sb-unix:uid-homedir :-P 02:52:00 yeah I noticed that, for some reason I had a feeling CL was made before home directories were invented 02:52:28 DeusExPikachu: CL just wasn't made with unix/posix in mind, specifically. 02:52:55 DeusExPikachu: it takes a host argument as well; i was under the impression CL was made before networked computing, and what's with characters anticipating unicode by a decade? 02:53:58 its weird when to advance in the future of computing, I have to look to the past for whats to come 02:54:25 On XP, LW's USER-HOMEDIR-PATHNAME returns #P"C:/Documents and Settings/fusss/My Documents/Downloads/Torrents/" 02:54:36 haha 02:54:46 <_3b> http://github.com/3b/cl-opengl <- gl 3.2 support etc 02:55:20 _3b: as always, sucka free 02:55:33 _3b: are you maintaining that? 02:55:35 pixpop [n=user@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:40 chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:03 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-63-111.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:56:13 I think I'll make a live ebuild for that when I have time 02:56:50 <_3b> DeusExPikachu: i work on cl-opengl, but am too lazy to actually get the ability to check stuff into the main repo, dunno if that counts as a 'yes' to your question or not 02:56:54 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:57:14 -!- joshe [n=joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has left #lisp 02:57:49 _3b: in a quirky way it answers what I meant to ask actually... 02:57:54 *rtoym* likes "home:" to get the home directory. 02:58:20 fusss: How do CL characters anticipate unicode? 02:58:49 rtoym: until i brushed up against unicode, characters meant octets 02:58:54 pixpop_ [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:01 i couldn't get my head around a character being encoding independent 02:59:13 lsk2 [n=lsk2_4@122.116.5.215] has joined #lisp 02:59:49 and i even wrote plenty of EBCDIC converters before (using the x86 xlat opcode trick) and various custom fonts for bios 02:59:51 -!- pixpop [n=user@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 03:01:05 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:01:28 :external-format is peppered throughout the I/O parts of the language as well 03:02:47 Yeah, I noticed that. I wonder what kind of formats were used at that time. 03:03:20 rtoym: we bought a library to do I/O in "arabic formats" 03:03:33 i remember my boss paid $900 for a Motif widget 03:03:46 ryotm: repertoires. :) 03:04:55 *rtoym* has forgotten what repertoires mean. 03:06:07 anyway boy and girls, it's 1PM on friday and it's high time i took my latop to the pub for a well deserved beer (the week's first) 03:06:32 It would probably appreciate pure alcohol better than beer. 03:06:34 *fusss* that little typo aught to offend everybody. boyS ;-) 03:06:38 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ztjdmdkpjlcdtnpc] has joined #lisp 03:07:04 Zhivago: to each his own; i am in it more for the taste, not the chest burning 03:07:06 later 03:07:08 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]"] 03:08:23 -!- pixpop_ [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi"] 03:08:45 Oh, lcl has a nice section on repertoires. Interesting. 03:11:35 -!- pepone [n=pepone@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit ["KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3437, sources date: 20090703, built on: 2009/09/09 21:03:17 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/"] 03:12:47 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:16:37 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 03:18:56 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 03:20:07 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:19 -!- lat__ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:21:07 lat__ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:21:10 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 03:21:31 gonzojive [n=red@216.31.250.106] has joined #lisp 03:29:30 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:33:49 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:12 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-202-25.we.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:16 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-32-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:36:35 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-32-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:36:38 Since araneida and cliki are kind of dead, anyone have suggestions on a replacement? 03:37:59 Hmm, cliki is dead? 03:38:29 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:36 The software, not the site. At least I think the Sw is no longer developed. 03:42:49 <_3b> ucliki maybe? 03:44:39 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 03:45:20 Zhivago, separate compilation is what I'm doing with XCVb 03:45:54 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 03:46:35 pixpop [n=pixpop@76.208.129.200] has joined #lisp 03:46:57 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:57 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 03:47:55 -!- pixpop [n=pixpop@76.208.129.200] has quit [Client Quit] 03:50:03 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-160-11.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:52:06 -!- tau [n=Erdos@189.127.60.24] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:52:30 tau [n=master@189.127.59.208] has joined #lisp 03:53:27 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-204-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:58:47 -!- bdowning_ is now known as bdowning 04:02:24 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:03:02 Right, but you aren't deducing the dependencies from the source -- they're explicitly declared, right? 04:03:26 Or was your point that these declarations should be in the source rather than in separate system specifications? 04:04:11 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:04:21 -!- gonzojive [n=red@216.31.250.106] has quit [] 04:05:20 rtoym: i have a replacement cliki engine, it's currently running wiki.alu.org 04:05:57 rtoym: the source is available at common-lisp.net/~dcrampsie 04:07:53 Is it the "same" as cliki, or is this something totally new? 04:08:50 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:09:36 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 04:10:04 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest4966 04:12:35 rtoym: it uses the cliki syntax, and the cliki storage engine, but besides that it's a re-write, runs under UCW 04:12:45 -!- Guest4966 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 04:13:16 Is it compatible? 04:14:15 xuser [n=xuser@unaffiliated/xuser] has joined #lisp 04:14:18 yeah, almost bug for bug i would imagine. 04:14:45 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:14:50 i plan to run cliki.net and the rest of the clikis on it someday 04:14:54 So instead of araneida, you need UCW? 04:15:30 yeah, it's a UCW app. (ucw is in clbuild, and that's how i recommend installing it) 04:15:36 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:16:13 I deployed it under ucw's usocket backend, but it should run under any of them 04:17:04 Ok. The two cliki sites I have at work are being transferred and they were wondering what kind of support cliki had. I guess your cliki with UCW would be a good replacement. 04:19:16 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:23:51 -!- xuser [n=xuser@unaffiliated/xuser] has left #lisp 04:31:05 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 04:32:24 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-99-33-92-164.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:07 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-108.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 04:36:10 rtoym: yeah, i'll support it as best i can, and im more than happy to answer any questions etc. 04:37:04 Fair enough. 04:37:04 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:38:28 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.163.214.130] has joined #lisp 04:39:57 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:57 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:40:00 it should just be a drop-in replacement for the most part. there is also some preliminary support for access control... it's not 100% done (what is?), but it's fairly stable and good enough for the ALU :) 04:40:43 the source is hopefully significantly more accessible than cliki at least... that thing was a bit of a mess. 04:41:03 jlf` [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 04:41:27 Is UCW as web server too? Or do I need something else? 04:43:29 UCW defines a protocol to talk to webservers, (which it calls 'backends'), and also includes a few out of the box. 04:43:54 So you don't _need_ something else, but you can use something else if you want to. 04:44:27 Cool. I liked araneida and cliki because they were both small and self contained. 04:44:31 the alu wiki is using the 'httpd' backend, which is probably the simplest, but the iolib backend has better performance AFAIK 04:45:01 Performance isn't a problem because there aren't that many users. 04:45:29 then the simple httpd backend should be more then enough. 04:45:41 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.164.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:53:04 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:00:37 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 05:01:12 -!- coliv [n=Coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:05:06 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6C520.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:22 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 05:10:08 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:12:36 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has 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06:05:38 splittist [n=dmurray@47-0.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:05:40 morning all 06:07:15 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:07:17 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-170.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:36 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-4-35.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:07:36 -!- KingNatoG5_ is now known as KingNatoG5 06:07:45 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:56 -!- cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:10:01 cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has joined #lisp 06:10:08 mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-078.iasi.cablelink.ro] has joined #lisp 06:12:39 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 06:12:40 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:15:11 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 06:15:56 Davse_Bamse 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#lisp 06:44:12 hello 06:49:02 -!- plops [n=user@pD9E68D8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:49:04 plops [n=user@pD9E68D8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:51:30 ahahaha 06:51:45 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-110-136.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:52:57 lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 06:53:12 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:54:13 ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 06:54:25 lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 06:54:26 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 06:55:53 good morning 06:56:03 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:58:11 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-078.iasi.cablelink.ro] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:58:22 mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-078.iasi.cablelink.ro] has joined #lisp 07:00:33 -!- jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:00:52 jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 07:01:32 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:03:27 -!- lat__ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:04:03 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 07:04:48 -!- lsk2 [n=lsk2_4@122.116.5.215] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:06:54 angerman [n=angerman@a040.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 07:08:30 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 07:08:46 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:09:04 good morning 07:15:36 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@97-126-117-131.tukw.qwest.net] has left #lisp 07:19:09 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:19:20 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:43 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:19:48 good morning, kami- 07:24:01 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 07:32:45 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:33:38 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 07:36:27 -!- jaws [n=jolyonwh@cb8faac9.atp.nicta.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:37:07 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:42:26 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-130-67.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:42:59 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-27-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:44:28 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:46:34 -!- huangjs` [n=user@p3045-ipbf2908marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:50:31 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84.217.12.197] has joined #lisp 07:52:07 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.129.155] has joined #lisp 07:52:10 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.247.189] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:54:18 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 07:58:55 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-13-137.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:58:56 -!- KingNatoG5_ is now known as KingNatoG5 07:59:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/87270 class "redifinition; :default-initargs" 07:59:31 ahwell .. using latest sbcl from git 08:01:14 gonzojive [n=red@DN800cf70e.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 08:02:08 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:02:20 chris_bryant [n=chris_br@cpe-75-84-206-87.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:41 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229148000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:03:54 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdsler094.osnanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:05:54 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@47-0.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:12:24 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:12:26 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:30 lnostdal: iirc it was mentioned on sbcl-devel, but i don't remember what was the conlusion 08:13:33 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-93568.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:00 i'd vote for a non-trivially-fixable sbcl bug, but don't take my word on it 08:18:08 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ztjdmdkpjlcdtnpc] has left #lisp 08:21:39 attila_lendvai: the 'Install HEAD revisions' documentation on dwim.hu says to asdf-install ironclad, net-telent-date, parse-number and split-sequence. Wouldn't it be better to use e.g. the clbuild mirrors of those projects? 08:24:10 -!- chris_bryant [n=chris_br@cpe-75-84-206-87.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:24:56 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229148000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 08:25:20 -!- gonzojive [n=red@DN800cf70e.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 08:28:03 splittist [n=dmurray@47-0.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:32:36 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:34:26 kami-: no idea, what are those mirrors, simple tgz's? if so, then i don't see the point 08:36:44 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-32-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:38:37 attila_lendvai: no darcs mirrors which are used by clbuild 08:39:20 oh, great, i'll send a mail to levy, we will most probably switch to them, thanks! 08:40:47 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177150119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:41:00 -!- angerman [n=angerman@a040.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [] 08:41:58 attila_lendvai: I will send an email with the URLs of the repos 08:42:18 kami-: don't bother, i did already, but thanks 08:42:46 attila_lendvai: what is the sbcl version of the live system? 08:44:02 attila_lendvai: 08:44:21 attila_lendvai: and where does 08:44:26 sorry 08:45:01 attila_lendvai: when I call sh ~/workspace/hu.dwim.environment/bin/build-image hu.dwim.home, I get 'undefined function LOAD-SYSTEM' 08:46:50 kami-: you should be on sbcl head, preferably our branch without the base-string experiments in it 08:47:13 or if you are on the official HEAD then you'll have to ignore an error while loading 08:47:14 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:47:45 now levy is working on the build, if he gets online 08:48:47 *attila_lendvai* needs to leave 08:49:19 attila_lendvai: thank you. bye. 08:49:25 -!- plops [n=user@pD9E68D8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:49:43 bye 08:54:28 saikat__ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:38 lpolzer [n=sky@dslb-088-073-202-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:18 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:01:55 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:02:56 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 09:04:12 -!- dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:05:57 HET2 [n=diman@81.106.134.194] has joined #lisp 09:10:31 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:05 rdd [n=rdd@83.250.145.223] has joined #lisp 09:12:14 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 09:13:21 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:13:21 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:18:01 -!- HET2 [n=diman@81.106.134.194] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:18:14 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp040.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:23:08 -!- lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:23:41 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:31:12 manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6CF13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:47 ignas [n=ignas@78.60.73.85] has joined #lisp 09:33:32 girzel [n=user@123.121.234.211] has joined #lisp 09:35:36 lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:36:10 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:36:49 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:40:15 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:55 -!- lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:45:13 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 09:45:16 lnostdal: fixed in cvs 09:45:40 okthatwasfast .. awesome, nikodemus .. heh :) 09:45:53 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:47:43 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6C520.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:52:12 Kickaha [n=user@bl5-23-113.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:53:09 hi guys, it would rock if someone around here knows what cffi:define-parse-method is used for :P 09:53:46 in the postmodern library, simple-date says that if it gets loaded after cl-postgres it will automatically register readers/writers for date types in the database. No matter how I write my asdf:defsystem statement, those readers/writers aren't getting registered (even when simple-date appears after cl-postgres in the compiling/loading output when I load my project). Is this something I can fix in defsystem, or is something trickier 09:53:47 required? 09:54:54 girzel: I thought I'd sent a fix to simple-date a while ago 09:54:56 let me check 09:55:28 the problem is that simple-date's ASDF system is defined such that asdf will only sometimes load it after postmodern (or before? don't remember exactly) 09:55:35 I assumed it was a defsystem issue, since before I made an asd file for the project, and was loading by hand, it worked fine. 09:55:40 so the feature setup won't be exactly right and stuff doesn't get registered 09:55:51 yeah, stuff has to happen in exactly the right order 09:56:06 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:56:37 defsystem's got all this complicated dependency stuff for your own source files, but not for external libraries... 09:56:49 more like inter-related libs (: 09:57:07 right 09:57:19 shall I try updating simple-date? 09:57:35 lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 09:58:26 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:00:29 I think that might help 10:00:48 I can also darcs send you the patch, as it doesn't seem to have arrived at the postmodern-devel mailing list 10:01:26 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:04:04 girzel: "Fri Apr 17 12:19:16 CEST 2009" is the date of the patch that should fix it (and it's in the postmodern repo) 10:04:11 so if you update, you should get it 10:05:04 will that be in PM 1.14? 10:05:15 I don't know 10:05:22 I always just use the darcs version 10:05:28 didn't even know there were releases (-: 10:06:38 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:06:50 -!- lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:07:03 sweet, that did it 10:07:08 thanks for the help 10:08:16 can abcl load any java library? 10:12:08 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:13:43 kiuma [n=kiuma@proxy.emea.fedex.com] has joined #lisp 10:15:01 lichtblau [n=user@port-92-195-25-94.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:15:36 lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:17:28 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-19-11.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:21:54 dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-208-171-218.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:01 -!- lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:26:55 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 10:27:22 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest53500 10:27:27 -!- Kickaha [n=user@bl5-23-113.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:27:33 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:27:47 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:29:06 -!- Guest53500 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 10:30:35 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229148000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:30:37 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-19-9.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 10:32:13 Aszarsha [n=aszarsha@91-164-129-96.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:04 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-6-60.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:33:48 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:34:03 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:34:04 lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 10:34:45 Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:34:57 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 10:35:16 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:38:03 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:01 -!- lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:45:20 lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:45:59 Reav__ [n=Reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 10:46:30 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483BB6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:13 GrayGnome [n=MuneNoKa@mobile206-123.near.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 10:48:21 -!- vy [n=user@nbvyazici.cs.bilkent.edu.tr] has left #lisp 10:52:56 Sukoshi`` [n=MuneNoKa@mobile208-153.near.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 10:54:03 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 10:54:12 is it not the jvm which loads java(jvm) libraries? 10:54:22 (on behalf of abcl) 10:57:11 Hazelesque [n=hazel@78.151.150.208] has joined #lisp 10:57:34 -!- GrayGnome [n=MuneNoKa@mobile206-123.near.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:57:48 -!- ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:07:09 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.218.80] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:12:09 -!- Sukoshi`` [n=MuneNoKa@mobile208-153.near.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:12:34 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:06 ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 11:24:43 Levenson1 [n=Levenson@92.46.91.118] has joined #lisp 11:25:06 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.94.233] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:39:17 rudi [n=rudi@mail.ist.tu-graz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:40:20 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:41:02 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:42:42 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:44:56 sohail [n=sohail@69-165-148-98.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:30 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-202-25.we.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:48:11 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:49:03 coliv [n=Coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:20 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:51:55 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:53:06 -!- tau [n=master@189.127.59.208] has quit ["Saindo"] 11:53:14 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:54:55 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:14 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:57:33 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 11:58:27 hallo 12:00:50 -!- blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:01:03 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:09 hola 12:03:07 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.218.80] has joined #lisp 12:05:13 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:20 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:10:03 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 12:13:17 benbos67 [n=ben@124.177.162.112] has joined #lisp 12:14:28 -!- lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:18:42 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-157.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:21:00 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 12:21:23 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:27 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 12:29:43 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-84-207.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 12:32:07 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:33:15 attila_lendvai: are you back? 12:34:10 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-19-11.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:35:44 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 12:36:03 more or less 12:37:03 HG` [n=HG@xdslei115.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:42:58 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-204-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:51 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-136.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:44:14 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:45:23 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:12 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:48:26 lnostdal: thanks 12:50:19 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:50:26 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:50:51 ruediger [n=ruediger@93.82.14.46] has joined #lisp 12:51:55 Someone emailed me this week to tell me about a Lisp meeting in sweden, and told me he first found the meeting in the past because of the lisp meeting calendar 12:52:15 That's what I hoped might happen, but it was the first time ever, after many months of on-and-off maintenance of the calendar... 12:53:12 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442325.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 12:53:54 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:55:36 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.59.96] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:55:44 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.70.180] has joined #lisp 12:57:53 blandest [n=user@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 12:58:19 there's a lisp meeting calendar? 12:58:30 i obviously don't follow things closely enough... 12:59:32 -!- Hazelesque [n=hazel@78.151.150.208] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:02:00 Xach: Do I recall correctly that you use Gnus+Gmail+POP? 13:04:48 Xach: while we are at it... there'll be one in budapest soon: http://www.meetup.com/parentheses/calendar/11395393/ 13:07:01 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:14 In case the answer to gigamonkey's question is yes, could you give me an copy of corresponding gnus config, Xach? I tried imap with gnus and gmail a few days ago and didn't like it and will try it with pop in a few days. 13:10:02 Xach: While we're at it, there's also a group in Boulder, CO, but they just had a meeting yesterday: http://www.meetup.com/The-Boulder-Lisp-Users-Group/ 13:10:36 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 13:11:32 *sellout* just realized he stole attila_lendvai's phrasing. 13:11:58 ruepel0r [n=rue@p4FCE08F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:14:11 *attila_lendvai* doesn't mind at all 13:14:29 gigamonkey: yeah, i do. 13:16:07 http://paste.lisp.org/+1VCE 13:16:37 thx 13:17:02 *Xach* is forbidden by firewall to check meetup.com :( 13:17:07 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:17:09 "personals and dating" 13:18:02 pixpop [n=user@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:16 *Xach* will add 'em later 13:18:36 nikodemus: i mentioned it on planet lisp a few times 13:18:56 Xach: Awesom. 13:18:57 e 13:20:32 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:20:46 -!- benbos67 [n=ben@124.177.162.112] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:20:46 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 13:20:59 Xach: your own firewall??? 13:21:29 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:22:41 matimago: the great firewall of south china, maine 13:24:43 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.70.180] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:26:36 Xach: what about IP-over-DNS? :-) 13:27:04 Xach: do you let Gnus do the POP bit itself or do you use something like fetchmail? 13:27:33 Coliveira [n=Coliveir@173.12.30.65] has joined #lisp 13:27:42 -!- coliv [n=Coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:28:34 gigamonkey: if you have large emails often, using external tool might be better. 13:28:46 gigamonkey: i let gnus do the pop bit. 13:29:28 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-110-136.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:17 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:24 *gigamonkey* wonders why in 2009 neither his browser nor editor are properly multithreaded 13:33:39 gigamonkey, chromium! 13:33:59 (it's not perfect yet, on linux that is .. but getting better every day) 13:34:16 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@89-180-138-71.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 13:34:43 gigamonkey: At least Safari finally runs Flash in its own process. 13:34:53 heh. 13:35:00 *Xach* has a friend at apple who was primarily responsible for that 13:35:22 -!- prip [n=_prip@host185-130-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:36:07 https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa works well on both ubuntu and debian 13:36:12 sellout: does that mean flash consume less cpu power? 13:36:36 leo2007: I doubt it. It just means that when Flash crashes, your browser doesn't. 13:36:43 ok 13:36:49 short answer: no. 13:36:55 Just reload the tab, and it restarts Flash. 13:36:56 flash drives my mb to 80 degrees 13:37:04 the OS schedules cpu time better too 13:37:47 cagonto [n=n@78.230.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:38:12 -!- cagonto [n=n@78.230.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:38:25 ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 13:39:29 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.129.155] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:39:41 yes, having tabs with flash ads in the browser can heat up the laptop like it was on fire 13:40:24 i know some people use opera on linux because of the feature of not having flash-playing ability by default 13:40:54 what? it does play flash by default 13:41:00 prip [n=_prip@host185-130-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:41:16 well, for some people it does not. 13:41:21 for instance, if they use gentoo 13:41:48 is it too much hassle to just remove or disable flash plugin? 13:41:58 probably 13:42:08 it's not me, but my friend :) 13:42:14 <_3b> yeah, don't even have to restart firefox to turn it on/off 13:43:01 flashblock is a must-have for firefox .. chromium is lacking there 13:43:49 <_3b> flashblock doesn't stop it quite fast enough though, it can still crash the browser 13:43:56 I disabled falsh by default using camino. 13:44:03 yeah 13:44:31 Does chromium have any thing like the Awesome Bar? 13:45:45 no, but i guess awesome chromium has a bar :) 13:45:49 gigamonkey: I think it might have that by default 13:46:09 (i don't know what Awesome Bar is, ofc) 13:46:21 *piso* has never used the Firefox Awesome Bar, but just read a description of it 13:46:44 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 13:47:07 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:47:22 in Chrome, you can type search queries directly into the location bar 13:47:37 Fortunately you can turn that off with a trailing / 13:47:47 Sorry, inhibit. 13:48:20 yeah, it's similar to what ff has, gigamonkey .. but there are some small differences here and there; some people like the ff way better, others like the chr. way better .. (i don't have strong opinions about it, and i can't even recall what the differences where) 13:48:59 on Linux, Chrome is much faster than Firefox and seems to have a lighter feel 13:49:13 looking forward to ff 4 actually .. can't drop the ff + firebug combo :} 13:49:31 for flash, I recommend noscript. 13:49:35 ..but for heavy sites chromium is great 13:49:48 my only experiences with chrome were rather bad 13:50:01 *stassats`* has a browser stub on cl+commonqt 13:50:25 well, you need a recent version 13:50:27 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:50:41 It's a bit annoying that chrome's javascript doesn't support generators yet, etc. 13:50:53 *piso* is running Chrome 4.0.207.0 13:52:00 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["laptop goto sleep"] 13:52:06 what are js generators? 13:52:09 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host191.190-227-45.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:52:31 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-250-229.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:52:46 assymetric coroutines limited to a single function. 13:54:02 Um, that is, the yield points must be in the same function. 13:54:14 why limit to a single function? Well, there are those js/continuation-to-js transformers (sigh) 13:54:26 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:48 Yeah, there are -- but you can think of these as being a kind of optimization over cps. 13:55:21 You get free cps within the one function, and only have to build closures for calls into other functions. 13:55:30 antoni [n=user@54.pool85-53-20.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 13:55:36 Opera has the Awesome Bar functionality built-in i suppose. too bad i don't use Opera. 13:57:43 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:58:48 -!- rudi [n=rudi@mail.ist.tu-graz.ac.at] has quit ["Client exciting"] 13:59:35 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:01:42 -!- ruepel0r [n=rue@p4FCE08F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:02:06 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:03:52 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.84] has joined #lisp 14:05:03 -!- jlf` [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:06:12 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host130.190-137-242.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:08:41 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:08:45 what's the awesome bar? is it made of chocolate? 14:09:17 fare: the name of the firefox 3 addr bar 14:11:50 Just need to make a clowbar. 14:12:56 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:37 -!- pixpop [n=user@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:14:57 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:16:46 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@82.181.150.41] has joined #lisp 14:16:54 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:16:58 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@82.181.150.41] has quit [Client Quit] 14:18:48 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 14:24:21 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:23 -!- antoni [n=user@54.pool85-53-20.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:29:30 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6CF13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:29:39 manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6CF13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:46 -!- ASau [n=user@host53-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:34:13 girzel` [n=user@123.121.212.36] has joined #lisp 14:34:41 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-22-28.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:35:19 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:31 Perhaps we can meet later in the Awsome Chromium Bar. 14:36:23 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-110-136.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:36:49 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 14:36:52 milanj [n=milan@93.87.192.64] has joined #lisp 14:38:18 I am not getting any news from comp.lang.lisp. Are others having the same problem? 14:39:30 younder: I am currently in a phase where I consider that a feature rather than a problem. I do go back and forth. 14:40:29 True there has been a lot of garbage there lately. 14:40:44 younder: the latest non-spam c.l.l message I have is from two hours ago 14:40:45 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:40:58 Hum. Who knows something about lexical dynamic scope ? 14:41:12 housel: I haven't gotten any news since yesterday.. 14:41:13 I've got a few questions about that in Lisp. 14:41:16 Fare: the Awesome Bar basically suggests URLs based on your history matching against the URL and the title of the page and showing the most frequently visited URLs first. 14:41:28 wgl: How's Coders treating you these days? 14:41:50 Edward__: ask away 14:42:00 Edward__: but be warned that "lexical dynamic scope" is pretty close to an oxymoron. 14:42:53 gigamonkey: Brad Fitzpatric makes me think of a skateboarder with so much energy that he is about to explode. I particularly like how he solved all of these scaling and other problems real time. These trials by fire tend to stick with a programmer at some cellular level. 14:44:09 gigamonkey: my experience with product reviews is that there's a delay between submitting it and having it appear on the product page, sometimes up to a day or two 14:44:27 Xach: yet several reviews have gone right up. 14:45:08 I think it may be due to people posting reviews with links to their own previous reviews on their blogs. 14:46:00 gigamonkey, why ? 14:46:18 Jeeez, http://twitter.com/mrjjwright/status/4058257534 A 6:09 mile by a 10-year-old 14:46:35 Edward__: because lexical scope is one kind of scope and dynamic scope is the other. 14:46:56 gigamonkey: And another thing is that I got out my TAOCP V1, and seriously considered learing Tex. 14:47:14 (You get some wiggle room, however, since dynamic scope isn't really the right term for what it describes, although it is commonly used.) 14:47:36 oudeis [n=oudeis@95.35.120.213] has joined #lisp 14:47:36 wgl: Yeah. 14:47:50 wgl: go and learn. LaTeX made me a much happier man :D 14:48:13 *gigamonkey* looks forward to typesetting his own books in future. 14:48:16 gigamonkey: At the library yesterday I see that several journals provide a set of Tex macros, or modifications of LaTex macros for you to use. 14:48:46 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:49:34 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.84] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:49:44 wgl: yeah, there are certain journals, afaik mostly math-related, that publish their own sets of macros for typesetting submitted material, as well as unofficial public domain libraries that have full format or just fragments (like up-to-date American Psychology Association styles) 14:50:12 p_l: I used to be in a business of producing books for publication using early computer-based typesetting. We used a knockoff of nroff and a LaserJet I to produce the camera ready copy, so I appreciate what Tex provides. 14:50:46 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:51:04 cool 14:51:14 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest46337 14:51:28 -!- girzel [n=user@123.121.234.211] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:51:35 Plan9 guys still use *roff and the rest, except in unicode-aware versions :-) 14:51:40 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:51 So that once an author has been accepted once on a journal, it be painful for him to try to publish to another journal, having to relearn a whole new set of markup, and being unable to easily reuse his own work... How devilish of scientific journal publishers... 14:52:34 I wonder why people still send them articles. The web is there! If they need peer review, they can have their peers review their articles on the web all the same... 14:52:35 matimago: mathematical journals reuse parts of AMS anyway 14:52:41 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 14:52:45 -!- Guest46337 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 14:53:11 p_l: that is when I learned to test and retest every code example put in a tutorial, cause there is nothing more damaging to credibility of such a document to the user if the examples blow up on first trial. 14:53:45 haha 14:56:32 I remember reading that the ruby pick-axe book had a system that ran tests against the code samples in the book. Seems like a reasonable quality assurance measure 14:57:42 matimago: At the risk of being retro, I still like seeing stuff on paper, particularly if care has been taken in its presentation. I am now making a habit to go to the library to do the reading. Another advantage is that while I am reading a journal, alt-tab won't bring me to irc or reddit. 14:57:58 dlowe: I would have done that if i had the tools then. 14:58:19 wgl: they wrote it themselves :D 14:59:41 dlowe: still, I heard that pickaxe isn't that good of a source 15:00:07 p_l: it's a terrible reference, but it's a beautiful learning book 15:00:09 dlowe:Right, but what I meant was something as programmable as ruby. We would have built them too. We were working in C and nroff at the time timesharing on an 80386 with 20 users, cpu speed measured in double-gigit megahertz. And the editor was ed. 15:00:40 -!- girzel` [n=user@123.121.212.36] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:00:44 wgl:dlowe: actually later on the editor was mico-emacs. 15:03:41 hmm... ed isn't so bad, at least as long as you have printing terminal... 15:04:06 If your alternative is 'cat'. 15:04:23 I like ed. It's the standard text editor on unix, after all 15:04:24 We were using screens. Microemacs, as tiny as it was, was a vast improvement. 15:05:49 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:07 gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:33 wgl: well, emacs on ASR33 would be ... interesting ;-) 15:13:32 -!- blandest [n=user@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:14:14 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 15:15:31 jte [n=JensTeic@p548EFC67.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:56 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-6-60.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit ["..."] 15:17:23 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-170.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:21:29 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:21:54 p_l: wonder if batch mode would do the trick. 15:22:16 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:22:30 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-170.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:41 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B035.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:02 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.164.103] has joined #lisp 15:29:33 -!- jte is now known as jeti 15:30:15 -!- younder [n=jthing@251.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 15:30:22 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:31:10 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:31:14 -!- jeti is now known as jeti_ 15:31:28 msg nickserv group 15:31:37 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:32:12 sohail1 [n=sohail@69-165-148-98.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:20 *jeti_* forgot the slash 15:32:32 -!- arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:32:49 -!- jeti_ is now known as jeti 15:33:06 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:48 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@130.83.156.186] has left #lisp 15:33:54 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:34:40 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:35:01 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 15:35:57 -!- Levenson1 [n=Levenson@92.46.91.118] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:36:22 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.91.118] has joined #lisp 15:36:49 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:37:55 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:38:56 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.91.118] has quit [Client Quit] 15:40:06 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:11 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.60.73.85] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:40:49 -!- jeti [n=JensTeic@p548EFC67.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 15:49:10 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:50:10 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [No route to host] 15:50:17 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:51:24 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.91.118] has joined #lisp 15:52:30 -!- sohail1 [n=sohail@69-165-148-98.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 15:52:42 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 15:53:29 hello. has anybody yet managed to somehow build the sbcl from macports on mac os snow leopard? or is the binary working? 15:54:24 Is it so different from 10.5? 15:54:37 it fails to compile 15:54:40 schoppenhauer: you'll probably have better luck if you use latest CVS 15:54:58 matimago: there are minor differences that made compilation fail 15:55:04 luis: yeah, I read that, but how do I get that cvs-thing into the package-system of macports 15:55:11 ok. 15:55:22 schoppenhauer: no idea. I use clbuild, and I recommend it. 15:55:41 luis: hm, but you need some other common lisp to compile sbcl, as far as I know 15:55:56 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:56:05 schoppenhauer: I just get the source from the sbcl download and build it in my own directory. 15:56:08 try clisp or ecl... 15:56:17 I mean, to build scbl. 15:56:17 wgl: hi 15:56:25 schoppenhauer: right, you should download a binary from www.sbcl.org 15:56:26 leo2007: howdy 15:56:35 schoppenhauer:; what luis said 15:56:39 luis: ok 15:56:43 hm maybe ecl builds 15:57:03 matimago: suggesting clisp/ecl for compiling SBCL is probably bad advice. 15:57:14 Has anyone ever used ECL to compile SBCL even? 15:57:16 I always use clisp to compile my sbcls. 15:57:29 no matter, I want to have ecl anyway 15:57:31 so I can build it 15:58:15 frito_ [n=keithm@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:03 schoppenhauer: you can use clbuild for that as well, I think. 15:59:26 jeti [n=jeti@p548EFC67.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:26 luis: I didnt even know that clbuild can really build lisps 15:59:28 luis: I used clbuild for package,s but I will try 15:59:41 clbuild compile-implementation sbcl 16:00:09 wgl: did you build sbcl on osx? 16:00:10 (oh, and 'clbuild update sbcl' before that) 16:00:26 phf [n=user@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:58 leo2007: Yes, several times as new versions came out. 16:03:42 -!- frito_ [n=keithm@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:04:03 sohail [n=sohail@69-165-148-98.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:25 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.84] has joined #lisp 16:06:11 luis: how does clbuild make sure that it gets all necessary dependencies for an implementation? 16:06:17 wgl: did you see the failures for ./run-tests.sh with sb-thread? 16:06:37 luis: I mean, if it doesnt build on macports (which mostly has comparably new versions), then why should it build with clbuild? 16:06:39 schoppenhauer: no. 16:06:52 luis: well that might be a problem ... 16:07:10 schoppenhauer: what's the SBCL version in macports? 16:08:06 luis: 1.2.29 I think. and they /want/ to upgrade to 1.2.31 ... at least the bug-ticket sais that. i just dont understand why they didnt yet... sorry ... a /maintainer/ who knows how to compile this and knows that his package ist worthless should do that... or at least give a proper workaround. 16:08:25 luis: but seems like the macports-guys are not very motivated 16:08:40 schoppenhauer: the snow leopard fixes were commited in version 1.0.31.2 16:09:05 luis: yes, the bug-ticket sais that also. why didnt they upgrade it? i mean its not a lot of work for them. 16:09:25 luis: i really have to get rid of macports. its simply useless. 16:09:27 schoppenhauer: I have no idea who maintains SBCL on macports. Perhaps you can volunteer. 16:10:17 luis: yup. already considered volunteering some stuff to macports, but I am not familiar with the ports-package-system yet. 16:10:29 luis: and actually, I like fink better (and I already know dpkg) 16:10:33 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 16:10:52 schoppenhauer: You won't miss anything without macports. 16:12:49 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-11.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:12:49 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-204-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:13:31 leo2007: well, if it would build I would use it 16:13:34 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-126-250.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:42 luis: I tried it. Didn't work. 16:13:57 tcr: you tried what? 16:13:59 w00t ... ecl doesnt compile. 16:14:06 ejs [n=eugen@95.135.127.112] has joined #lisp 16:14:34 leo2007: re the failures--I did get some, but then had to head out. Didn't look quite right, though. Will start it again. 16:14:41 luis: Building sbcl with ecl 16:14:52 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:54 dublindan [n=danbot@84.203.194.18] has joined #lisp 16:15:10 leo2007: Regarding macports, it is useful if not mandatory to do the macports thing if you are going to use clbuild as macports gives you the version control tools you need to build it. 16:15:12 wgl: I see. There are about 10 failtures unexpected. 16:15:30 minion: (+ 1 2) 16:15:31 you speak nonsense 16:15:41 minion: you suck, real bots evaluate code 16:15:41 what's up? 16:15:54 dublindan: it would be too verbose 16:16:03 p_l: heh 16:16:07 -!- dublindan [n=danbot@84.203.194.18] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:16:37 wgl: I have never used clbuild. is it better than asdf? 16:16:46 leo2007: wrong question. 16:17:34 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:17:36 leo2007: Don't know--did not use asdf:install. clbuild gives you all these very cool tools and libraries. Might be the best way to get all that stuff. 16:17:42 what's the right question, luis? 16:17:55 leo2007: oh, did you mean asdf-install? 16:18:02 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32DCFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:14 luis: yeah 16:18:31 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:18:33 still wrong, don't confuse asdf with asdf-install 16:19:07 leo2007: clbuild is not better than asdf-install. 16:19:15 ok, I manage a small directory of free/open software and it amounts to roughly 370M. I have not missed macports. 16:19:42 and I use asdf/asdf-install for cl packages. 16:19:43 leo2007: it's different. I like clbuild better. 16:19:45 schme: thanks 16:20:01 luis: why is it better than? 16:20:02 minion: tell leo2007 about clbuild 16:20:03 leo2007: look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 16:20:09 leo2007: I prefer clbuild. It suits me better. 16:20:33 <_3b> clbuild downloads from version control repos, which is nice when you are developing 16:20:41 i prefer clbuild's way, though i'm not using clbuild 16:20:59 leo2007: for instance, if I make local changes to a library, updating it won't overwrite them, since it uses version control. 16:21:14 <_3b> asdf-install downloads tarballs linked from cliki, and determines dependencies at runtime 16:21:45 i see 16:21:52 also, asdf-install often tries to pull in too many dependencies. 16:22:09 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@95.35.120.213] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:22:19 some packages have git repo and I clone them which also allow me to make local modifications. but not all packages have that. 16:23:29 leo2007: the clbuild folks maintain repositories automatically generated out of release tarballs for a couple of libraries. 16:23:44 I see. 16:23:54 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:24:01 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-93568.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:24:18 luis: Really? I thought clbuild would always go to the source repositories and fetch HEAD 16:24:34 some libraries only release tarballs 16:24:45 tcr: well, Edi Weitz libraries don't have public repos, for instance. 16:24:54 Just use yours! 16:25:04 tcr: right, it's what clbuild does. 16:25:14 btw it seems like edi actually uses the svn repositories in bknr for his stuff 16:25:27 I guess I'm part of the 'clbuild folks'. 16:25:59 tcr: maybe, it's not clear. We should have bugged him about it at ECLM. 16:26:03 Sure but that's rather the exception, isn't it? 16:26:17 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-181-16.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:26:26 (the general rule is that stuff is checked out from the repositories) 16:26:30 Yes. I didn't mean to imply it wasn't. 16:26:52 Eh I totally skipped "for a couple of libraries" 16:26:55 Sorry 16:28:34 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.84] has quit ["Leaving..."] 16:30:39 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:34:42 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:35:07 Edward__: the suspense is killing me! 16:35:27 sellout [n=greg@pool-129-44-178-240.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:23 ejs1 [n=eugen@95.135.127.112] has joined #lisp 16:36:39 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@95.135.127.112] has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:45 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@proxy.emea.fedex.com] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:39:17 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 16:39:53 sohail1 [n=sohail@69-165-148-98.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:14 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 16:42:27 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 16:43:02 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:47:06 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-76-22-154-126.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:47:18 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:47:50 gz_ [n=gz@209.6.18.72] has joined #lisp 16:51:05 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@89-180-138-71.net.novis.pt] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 16:54:15 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:32 -!- gz` [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:54:44 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 16:56:44 -!- gz_ [n=gz@209.6.18.72] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:56:56 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@47-0.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1"] 16:57:55 gz_ [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:04 http://github.com/bmillare/brent-overlay I just posted a few live ebuilds. cl-ftgl and 3b's cl-opengl branch 16:59:19 for the gentooers out there 16:59:51 gz` [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:59 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.91.118] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:02:38 Jabberwockey [n=jens@82.113.121.152] has joined #lisp 17:03:06 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:03:33 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:05:58 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.164.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:06 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.164.103] has joined #lisp 17:06:20 -!- jeti [n=jeti@p548EFC67.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 17:06:48 also posted my asdf wrapper for decentralized dependencies, bsdf, on http://github.com/bmillare/bsdf gigamonkey and I made a no-monetary unconfirmed bet a while back that I'd succumb to just using asdf. It's more of a wrapper than a replacement so the bet is invalid. 17:07:13 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-nsmseiatdoigwkyl] has joined #lisp 17:07:43 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:07:52 is there some neat library for outputting wave files or whatheck over the sound system? 17:09:47 <_3b> schme: mixalot or something from lispbuilder-sdl maybe? 17:11:09 _3b: hmm... I'll look up mixalot. I have been having bad experiences with lispbuilder crashing my sbcl :) 17:11:19 <_3b> http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/software/mixalot/mixalot.html 17:12:20 seems to require ALSA :( 17:13:29 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.87.7] has joined #lisp 17:14:28 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 17:14:35 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:59 -!- jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:15:19 kleppari_ [n=spa@212.30.204.85] has joined #lisp 17:15:25 hey isn't there some ascii beep code? can I make SBCL beep using that? 17:15:56 jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:16:14 #\Bel 17:16:49 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84.217.12.197] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:16:50 jeti [n=jeti@p548EFC67.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:13 I only seem to get it to output #\Bel :S 17:17:49 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:57 (write-char #\Bel) 17:18:24 MY GOD XACH! 17:18:27 MY XACH GOD! 17:18:41 *Xach* remembers some old PC game or other that managed to do wave sounds via the PC speaker 17:18:45 Xach: thanks. I will owe my future excellent physique to you :) 17:18:51 ah yes.. the old horror. 17:19:01 hmm doesn't work on slime's repl, but works on a standalone sbcl 17:19:05 for me 17:19:27 DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-55-19-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:52 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:20:27 gonzojive [n=red@DN800cfb12.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:21:34 techno music 17:22:15 -!- deech [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:22:30 deech [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:16 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:26:25 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslei115.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:27:40 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-100-124.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:01 Xach: pulse code modulation :) 17:29:08 dlowe: that's no game i ever heard of! 17:29:20 star control, maybe? 17:29:44 <_3b> didn't lots of games do that? 17:29:45 Xach: no, that's the method 17:29:49 is there a way to get emacs to respect the #\Bel? 17:30:04 splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:30:06 There was one where you went to Halley's Comet that did that. I nearly fell out of my chair 17:30:09 _3b: i didn't play enough games to remember more than one. 17:30:13 A terrible game, though 17:34:29 DeusExPikachu: M-: (ding) 17:36:12 stassats`: from the repl, is what I mean, not emacs builtin dinger 17:38:11 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-170.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:38:36 milanj- [n=milan@93.86.115.7] has joined #lisp 17:38:47 the slime-repl, specifically 17:39:11 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:40:10 "you don't need that" 17:40:46 anyone good with odd electronics operations.. like say ripping up a thinkpad and doing some stuff to make the beeper sound a bit louder? 17:41:11 <_3b> schme: why not just run-program some app to play a sound file? 17:41:33 hoh. that would work. 17:41:38 schme: you could replace the speaker with a more sensitive driver 17:41:45 with caching of the player program it should be no big delay 17:41:48 (driver as in the speaker) 17:42:12 DeusExPikachu: Yeaaa. I was looking for some nice library to do audio output on the soundcard :) 17:42:37 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:45 oh. Seems just openinng /dev/audio and outputting works. 17:42:47 horrua 17:45:26 tekin [n=kaa@85.108.58.77] has joined #lisp 17:45:30 hai 17:45:40 -!- jeti [n=jeti@p548EFC67.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 17:46:04 iie 17:46:08 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.192.64] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:47:02 Levenson1 [n=Levenson@89.218.70.151] has joined #lisp 17:48:40 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@82.113.121.152] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:49:21 ruediger_ [n=ruediger@188-23-68-202.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:50:12 -!- sellout [n=greg@pool-129-44-178-240.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:51:15 Jabberwockey [n=jens@82.113.106.86] has joined #lisp 17:51:39 -!- whartung [n=willh@207.38.40.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:53:55 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:54:27 whartung [n=willh@207.38.40.1] has joined #lisp 17:54:47 dysinger [n=dysinger@97-126-117-131.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:41 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@93.82.14.46] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:57:45 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:10 postamar_ [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-16.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:59:07 -!- Levenson1 [n=Levenson@89.218.70.151] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:03:23 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.87.7] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:04:59 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:39 -!- xan_ is now known as xan 18:08:29 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 18:11:02 schme: new thinkpads emulate beeper through their DACs 18:11:32 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-11.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:11:33 -!- postamar_ is now known as postamar 18:11:52 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-22-28.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 18:15:55 jeti [n=jeti@p548EFC67.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:57 schme: I don't understand how you could possibly want it louder 18:17:04 that thing is infernal already 18:17:16 I disabled it pretty much everywhere because it was making me go deaf 18:17:19 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:18:09 <_3b> how does returning structs work in cffi? 18:18:33 last thing i heard was "it doesn't", but that was a while ago. 18:19:22 *_3b* had that impression too, but defcfun doesn't complain 18:20:17 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:20:42 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Verlassend"] 18:22:33 p_l: I'm not buying a new one! 18:22:39 -!- gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [No route to host] 18:22:46 mathrick: I'm using it for stuff . I need to hear it. :) 18:22:47 _3b: it handles structs as pointers 18:23:08 <_3b> luis: does it need freed by hand? 18:23:31 _3b: not sure what you mean. It doesn't allocate anything. 18:24:00 schme: what model? 18:24:04 _3b: but see http://repo.or.cz/w/fsbv.git 18:24:09 p_l: r52 18:24:25 schme: does it have intel "hda" audio? 18:24:31 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6CF13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 18:24:33 p_l: maybe it does what you say. it worked anyway. 18:24:37 p_l: maybe dunno. 18:24:49 also not quite sure how I go about checking 18:25:15 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 18:25:20 schme: r52 is probably recent enough to have that damned bleeper as part of the sound system... though I can't call "HDA" or "AC97" a sound system 18:25:30 hmm ok. 18:25:46 -!- ruediger_ [n=ruediger@188-23-68-202.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25:46 well maybe I will plug in some lineout to check later. 18:25:56 *schme* is too busy writing amazing lisp! 18:26:00 <_3b> luis: so i can't do it with just cffi? 18:26:41 _3b: correct. 18:26:57 schme: I disable bleeper on both linux (removing the pc speaker driver) and under windows (disabling the driver). It was f*cking annoying, and it doesn't support anything special like "true" pc speaker 18:27:08 p_l: congrats! 18:27:13 schme: is yours older than 2006-2007? 18:27:22 p_l: I can't think of an easier way to make a beep than #\Bel :) 18:27:25 I have x60 from early 2007 and it all goes through the soundcard 18:27:30 mathrick: I think so. 18:27:40 which was way fun if I happened to have my headphones on and disconnected the AC 18:27:46 ehehehe 18:27:58 because the beep bypasses the volume setting and goes with full volume always 18:28:05 But really. It was ok the volume. I have done real life testing of it. 18:28:07 sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:28:12 nice! 18:28:31 must be wonderful with headphones + vim in beep mode then :) 18:28:39 -!- erg_ is now known as erg 18:28:44 hm 18:29:03 mathrick: yeah, "soundcard". I wonder if you could patch the waveform that is sent to DAC on the bleep 18:29:27 I'm looking for functionality to be able to do some 2D work (a basic game) using Franz Common Lisp, any ideas? 18:29:33 *schme* loves SLEEP 18:29:36 mathrick: it bypasses volume setting because there's no mixer and afaik it goes from SM-mode 18:29:36 making life so easy for me 18:29:56 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:31:41 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-3-249.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:12 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.47.221] has joined #lisp 18:34:27 <_3b> luis: what is the pointer cffi returns for a struct return type? 18:34:29 -!- tekin [n=kaa@85.108.58.77] has quit [] 18:35:19 _3b: struct foo *bar(); => (defcstruct foo ...) (defcfun bar foo) 18:35:47 _3b: it's *the* pointer. :) 18:36:31 <_3b> luis: ok, so it is completely unrelated to struct foo bar(); then? 18:36:46 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 18:36:47 <_3b> (and i'm back to needing fsbv) 18:37:16 Yep. 18:37:30 Or, you could implement structs-by-value in SBCL! :-) 18:37:43 What's difficult about it? 18:37:57 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:38:09 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 18:38:35 tcr: the rules might be complex, I don't remember well. And structs-by-value are rare enough in actual APIs that nobody deems it worth the trouble? 18:38:37 a structs passed by value are copied, right? 18:39:08 they are used pretty heavily in objective c 18:39:16 *_3b* is considering just reimplementing that function in lisp and hoping there aren't too many more :p 18:39:24 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:39:54 vixey/fax had an implementation of structs-by-value for sbcl but I don't remember the details 18:40:10 anyone here done (or doing) continuous integration stuff on a lisp project/code base? 18:40:50 -!- pixel5 [n=pixel@copei.de] has quit ["."] 18:40:53 in what sense? 18:41:02 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-24-238.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:41:09 Good evening everyone! 18:41:11 Xach: good point. 18:41:45 hi beach 18:41:47 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:42:48 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:43:15 good evening 18:44:00 <_3b> oops, need to call c++ code to reimplement the c function, that doesn't simplify anything :( 18:45:19 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:34 \o/ 18:45:40 CL > metronome 18:45:52 also CL > Lisa with a timer yelling stuff! 18:46:02 structs-by-value do have tricky rules that vary drastically per platform. 18:46:12 but it shouldn't be hard to implement given the motivation 18:47:53 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.86.115.7] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:48:29 and if you know the ABI rules you can usually (unportably) do it even without the support by declaring the function to take either a pointer or multiple arguments (one for each struct member), depending on the ABI. 18:48:31 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-6-153.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:13 *_3b* doesn't know ABIs and wants portability 18:50:12 _3b: what function is returning a struct? 18:51:06 <_3b> aiGetPredefinedLogStream 18:52:03 <_3b> http://assimp.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/assimp/trunk/code/Assimp.cpp?revision=466&view=markup#l_419 18:52:27 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:53:56 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["bye for now"] 18:56:34 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@82.113.106.86] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:56:47 mfk [n=user@kpbisb.static.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:56:55 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-3-249.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:56:56 -!- KingNatoG5_ is now known as KingNatoG5 18:58:02 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has joined #lisp 18:58:08 tsuru [n=user@c-76-22-154-126.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:26 tcr: was that a question for me (about the CI q)? (sorry was afk a bit) 19:02:03 I mean as in something like hudson or cruisecontrol to run test automatically, etc 19:02:58 (I'm setting up hudson for a perl project atm, and was wondering if there are any examples in lisp land. and also if there's maybe a lisp ci project somewhere...) 19:04:39 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:06 TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has joined #lisp 19:07:10 -!- Aszarsha [n=aszarsha@91-164-129-96.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.1.3/20090903134039]"] 19:10:18 ejs1 [n=eugen@95.135.127.112] has joined #lisp 19:10:39 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@95.135.127.112] has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:52 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.164.103] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:13:12 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.164.103] has joined #lisp 19:16:51 pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:54 -!- pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:21:00 francogrex [n=user@91.180.183.69] has joined #lisp 19:25:45 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@118.210.39.79] has joined #lisp 19:26:21 dthomp [n=dthomp@66.162.150.199] has joined #lisp 19:27:50 I am stagnating, not improving as a lisp programmer. I heard the good old advise: you learn by doing. Well, I started turning algorithms into programs; a program of 500 lines (that I'm sure an expert would do in 3 lines) that take 10 min to run (while they could be done in 0.1 sec)... 19:28:21 Now I think I have a better strategy 19:29:03 francogrex: writing is important. reading is also very important. 19:29:16 mejja [n=user@85.229.182.73] has joined #lisp 19:29:19 Friendly competitions with friends can help 19:29:26 Appologies for redundancy 19:30:21 Xach: exactly. More than just writing, now I went back to a copy of PAIP I had 19:30:55 and step by step, i am painfully going through each little prog and sub prog 19:31:39 testing: PC on lisp, paip on my right and hyperspecs on my left 19:32:33 I don't know. I think it's good at least 19:32:49 francogrex: have you had a look at SICP>? 19:33:00 minion: tell francogrex about sicp 19:33:00 francogrex: please look at sicp: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available gratis from (HTML), (texinfo) and (XHTML, PDF). Accompanying video lectures are available gratis at 19:33:28 -!- scottmaccal [n=scott@sentry3.jayschools.org] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:33:46 -!- ejs [n=eugen@95.135.127.112] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:34:03 francogrex: btw, how did you get Linj? Did you find some download or did you contact the company? 19:35:24 pjb: yes SICP is my second book i'll go through, right after PAIP. (unless you strongly advise that one starts with SICP first) 19:35:24 <_3b> cool, guess i don't actually need the struct-returning function or the c++ function it calls :) 19:35:51 p_l: but you told me. It's the wayback machine 19:36:22 francogrex: PAIP has good code to read, but I also recommend looking at real CL code and libraries. cl-ppcre for example is very educational. 19:36:53 francogrex: ah, I meant the code 19:36:55 p_l: i got it from there but I couldn't find the right allegro 6.2 to run the fasl files 19:37:00 francogrex: I'm of the kind reading several books at once (when I've got time), so I cannot say which to read first: both are to be read. 19:37:07 ah, it's in fasls 19:37:21 p_l: yes unfortunately. 19:37:27 I guess I'll contact the company one day, they don't seem to be active much 19:37:45 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-1-245.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:37:45 but you use Linux so an old sbcl version of Linux would not be hard to find 19:38:09 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@118.210.86.246] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:38:09 p_l: no, I don't know why they've discintinued LinJ 19:38:21 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:38:42 Xach: yes I would. But what do you mean by "real CL code". PAIP is real 19:39:10 varjag [n=eugene@80.202.117.103] has joined #lisp 19:39:36 francogrex: Yes, realer than most. I mean things like libraries that are released on cliki and used by more than 1 person. 19:40:10 code that demonstrates how someone familiar with CL writes and prepares a project 19:40:32 ah ok 19:40:43 PAIP has enough stuff for a challenging programming course :D 19:41:09 i'm going through chapter 22 now, step by step 19:41:46 Norvig was still using outdated stuff like plists etc 19:42:01 plists are outdated? 19:42:08 plists are not outdated 19:42:14 that's what I thought 19:42:14 francogrex: where did you get that foolish idea? 19:42:15 minion: memo for gigamonkey: I just got the acknowdledgement mail from amazon.de that C@W got shipped. 19:42:15 Remembered. I'll tell gigamonkey when he/she/it next speaks. 19:42:48 francogrex: it wouldn't be bad to use plist if there are wrapped over by an abstraction layer (as described in sicp) so that you can replace them by hash-table when needed. 19:43:30 You typically use plist on small stuff so you can conveniently use DESTRUCTURING-BIND on it. 19:43:50 it's also pretty human readable when outputted to a file 19:43:58 or apply make-instance on it 19:43:59 Xach: "In Common Lisp, property lists aren't used very much. They have largely 19:43:59 been superseded by hash tables" 19:44:21 but i see your points 19:44:21 francogrex: depends on the number of items in them. 19:44:28 you can put any words inside quotes 19:44:56 francogrex: hashtables are faster than plists when you have more than 5 (sbcl) or 35 (clisp) items in them. 19:44:58 stassats` not if the author is Paul Graham 19:45:25 francogrex: and the space overhead is bigger for hash tables too. 19:45:28 pjb: ok, noted 19:45:50 pjb: really? 19:46:07 take paul graham words with a grain of salt 19:46:08 pkhuong: not asymptotically of course, but for a small number of elements. 19:46:09 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-136.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:46:29 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 19:46:31 pkhuong: often a hashtable won't allocate for less than eight entries, that's at least 16 pointers. 19:46:31 pjb: is that accounting for changing the default size? 19:46:32 dears, don't want to start arguments about plists; i see they indeed are iportant 19:47:10 pjb: and a plist has slightly more than 4 pointers per entry. 19:47:11 DeusExPikachu: If you set the default size to 2, it would still be implementation dependant whether the table has only capability for 2 or for a bigger minimum. 19:47:16 it was just what i was reading that's all 19:47:34 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.47.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:47:49 francogrex: Paul Graham is not a good source for reliable information about current Common Lisp practice 19:47:57 pkhuong: assume you have 5 entries. For a plist that's 10 conses, or 20 pointers. For a hashtable it might be space for 8 entries or 32 pointers. 19:48:10 *Xach* prods gigamonkey for a chart update 19:48:21 8 entries, thus 16 pointers. 19:48:24 Xach: what is? 19:48:33 Oops. Right. 19:49:11 Xach: you know better. I only read what's available, i don't have the capacity yet to say which is better than which 19:49:14 In anycase all these considerations are hightly implementation dependant, and for small sizes, there are threshold effects. 19:49:22 Xach, real code? 19:49:31 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 19:49:51 minion: tell DeusExPikachu about pcl 19:49:52 DeusExPikachu: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:49:57 DeusExPikachu: PAIP is better. PCL is better. W&H 3rd Ed is better. Keene is better. More, too. 19:50:12 plists have one major advantage over hash tables.... the last argument to APPLY is not a hash table :). 19:50:22 Xach: What's W&H? 19:50:27 Winston & Horn 19:50:40 Also plists print and read more easily. 19:50:45 I liked OnLisp and found it more helpful than PAIP IMO 19:50:45 i've heard everything prior to the 3rd edition of W&H is very dated... 19:50:55 Ah, right, that one. 19:50:57 drewc: but with plists, earlier entries have precedence, unlike parameter lists. 19:51:26 pkhuong: true, i've actually run into that. 19:51:44 Huh? in parameter lists earlier entries have precedence, too 19:52:25 I guess Paul leaves out a lot of CLOS, that's one difference I see between PCL, which uses it in most of the practicals 19:52:26 yes, otherwise (apply 'foo :bar 5 plist) wouldn't be all that useful 19:52:35 pkhuong: false. 3.4.1.4. says the leftmost one is taken. 19:52:36 right. 19:52:44 what was the issue i ran into then? 19:52:50 drewc: scurvy 19:52:52 *drewc* can't recall 19:53:04 that's possible. 19:53:16 DeusExPikachu: I think Paul pretends CL is scheme. 19:53:55 drewc: apart from call-arguments-limit (practical or theoretical)? (: 19:54:08 well I think Paul graham's books taught me the bad habit of using setf before defvar 19:54:17 Thing is, for "Real Code", looking through cl-ppcre for example, I haven't seen that stuff used extensively in the books you mentioned (except W&H, haven't read that yet) 19:54:30 francogrex: defparameter is better than defvar for casual use. 19:54:40 50 elements should be enough for everyone's plist 19:54:50 francogrex: but even, I'm taking the habit of using let, and it's not awkward, with a good editor. 19:54:58 pjb: yes but even that. in the books I read it's straight away setq and setf 19:55:13 Yes, you have to translate... 19:55:14 yay books 19:55:36 francogrex: you can't beleive everything you read :D 19:55:52 yeah. 19:56:02 sepult`` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-225.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:13 It's not that bad at the REPL 19:56:37 sbcl complains every time 19:56:47 especially if your implementation makes the effort to actually create global lexical this way 19:57:15 stassats: yes sbcl is painfully square, but i love him 19:57:29 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@97-126-117-131.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:57:33 Xach: a quick question. There is a project at work came up today about using GIS 19:58:04 a starter might be the actual maps something like http://www.research.att.com/areas/stat/doc/93.2.ps 19:58:21 Can we do it easily with your libs? 19:59:09 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6CF13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:07 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079117.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:50 and not only complains 20:02:34 whenever I see nice libraries in R or S I think to myself how much nicer they would have been were they written in common lisp... 20:02:35 stassats: sbcl reminds me of a math teacher who was comlaining everytime when even the format of the homework was not right according to him 20:03:16 slyrus_: yes I was thinking to implement (with my collegues help of course) a little GIS program in CL 20:03:22 francogrex: it complains rightly, you get different results when just setting variable without declaring it 20:03:57 stassats`: really? examples? 20:05:08 (flet ((foo () f)) (let ((f 20)) (foo))) 20:05:39 francogrex, regarding setf before defvar/defparameter, some implementations (like SBCL), warn you about it, so you don't usually do it, unless you really mean it, which reminds me, isn't there an example in his "On Lisp" book, which relies on undocumented behaviour (setf'ing an undefined symbol) during the chapter which implements continuations? 20:05:49 compare with (setf f 10) and with (defparameter f 10) 20:06:03 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079117.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:06:09 setf before defvar wouldn't be too bad, if you used *earmuffed* variables... 20:06:32 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079117.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:47 Most implementation will declare a toplevel setf'ed variable as special, since there's no standard other kind of toplevel variables. So they should be *earmuffed*. 20:06:49 aren't there big differences between a defvar and a setf at toplevel? like the fact that they are not special? 20:07:00 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:07:14 I thought that was implementation dependent. 20:07:16 francogrex: i have some unreleased code for processing ArcGIS files for shapes, points, and lines, actually. it is incomplete, though. 20:07:17 DeusExPikachu: In the case of clisp, they're declared special automatically. 20:07:25 sorry, ESRI shape files 20:07:40 I'm assuming sbcl is not then 20:08:14 mogunus [n=marco@student164-13.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 20:08:23 francogrex: thanks for the link, that is a nice paper. 20:08:37 sbcl and ccl don't declare it special, right 20:08:59 pjb: i see 20:09:05 DeusExPikachu: actually, in sbcl maybe it woulddn'tt make a lot of difference since all defun are compiled (by default). 20:09:29 DeusExPikachu: but in clisp, by default they're not compiled, so when they're interpreted before and after the setf, they behave differently. 20:09:30 Xach: yes it's a good one. We were going through those today. That's what we did all day 20:10:03 -!- mogunus [n=marco@student164-13.hampshire.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 20:11:03 Xach: maybe I can find the src code for his S functions. Would that help? You think you can use some to complement your project? 20:11:49 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-130-67.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:12:53 francogrex: I can't really think about it now, sorry. I have to revisit it when I have more time. 20:13:20 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:13:38 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:13:52 pjb: I don't see how compiling defuns affect the behavior of special vs non-special variables 20:13:58 lukego [n=lukegorr@84-72-45-92.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:14:17 I'm git challenged and coming here to beg for help. :-) 20:14:20 DeusExPikachu: compiling freeze the interpretation of the variable, either as a special or lexical one. 20:14:23 xach: no prob ok 20:14:59 DeusExPikachu: so if you compile a function with a lexical binding, and later decalre that variable special, there is still a lexical binding compiled in (until you recompile the function). 20:15:06 DeusExPikachu: not so in the case of interpretation. 20:18:08 hi lukego :) 20:20:18 hi :) 20:20:50 git issues ? 20:21:23 well now I feel too bad about asking in #lisp instead of rtf. :) 20:21:30 (m) 20:21:36 When compiling a recursive function declared as inline, sbcl spends a lot of time on it. Is it doing anything silly, or does it really need the time? 20:21:49 lukego: just claim you're trying to check out or work with a lisp project, it will be ok 20:22:16 Xach: yes. that's exactly what I'm doing. 20:22:16 -!- deech [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:22:22 pjb: actually I think I'm getting mixed up between special and the implicit proclaim of the defvar 20:22:27 proceed, friend 20:22:42 deech [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:04 do I understand correctly that in git you keep a single working directory for all branches, and when you want to work on another branch you say 'git checkout mybranch' and it updates the working directory in-place? first point - won't this make Emacs unhappy ('Changed on disk; sure you want to edit?' etc) 20:23:07 DeusExPikachu: defvar declaims (or proclaims it's the same) the variable as special. 20:24:02 stassats`: Did you ever polish up your M-. for elisp? 20:24:05 lukego: that's correct. it will make emacs complain 20:24:16 pjb: as i can tell, sbcl can do some additional optimizations when inlined 20:24:24 tcr: nope 20:24:37 Bah I want it! 20:25:00 doesn anyone have a link to a picture of a chart with all the built-in CL type hierarchy? 20:25:03 stassats`: I'm wondering because it notes: *INLINE-EXPANSION-LIMIT* (200) was exceeded, probably trying to inline a recursive function. 20:25:33 Looks like it'ss not conscious from the start that it's a recursive inline function... 20:25:41 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:26:10 (I'd expect it to implement tail-call-optimization and then inline...) 20:26:18 you can't inline a recursive function I read (franco ducks afraid of a repriand for what he just said) 20:26:36 pjb: is it tail-call-optimizable function? 20:26:46 lukego: however, git will not allow to switch branch if you have uncommitted changes, so there's no danger to lose work 20:26:47 Good question. I should check. 20:27:07 and sbcl doesn't do TCO with debug 3 20:27:48 Ah, right. I should lower the debug optimization. 20:27:57 Thanks. 20:28:06 yeah the main difference, in my understanding, is what happens when you try to create new bindings in a let I think, which would affect being masked vs pushing a new value ontop of the special variable 20:28:06 rickardg [n=user@c-077671d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:28:12 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-136.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:28:37 (that was for pjb) 20:29:18 DeusExPikachu: yes. 20:30:21 DeusExPikachu: the difference of behavior in an interpreter (vs. a compiler) before and after declaring a variable special is the same than when redefining a defconstant (which shouldn't be done for portable code). 20:30:22 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079117.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:30:23 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-65-192.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:31:07 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079117.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:19 literal [n=hinrik@u.nix.is] has joined #lisp 20:33:18 pjb: I (as a novice) was surprised to see that one can actually in change the value of a defconstant var! 20:33:43 huh? 20:33:48 I thought it would go right into the debugger 20:33:48 felix: ah ok now I see. I was confused that I switched branches but my changes were still there. it's because I hadn't committed all of them 20:33:49 pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:53 tcr: in ecl 20:34:05 so should I switch to vi to be happy with git? 20:34:11 francogrex: yes, that's implementation dependant. 20:34:16 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:17 (defconstant +x+ 14) 20:34:37 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:34:40 pjb: yes is it oked by ansi? 20:34:42 Changing the value will certainly not change inlined copies 20:34:51 clhs defconstant 20:34:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcon.htm 20:35:02 francogrex: No. For conformant programs you cannot change a defconstant, even across load. 20:35:32 -!- sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 20:35:36 Basically, if you change a constant, you must recompile everything (that depends on it). 20:36:04 stassats: ok I see: "A constant defined by defconstant can be redefined with defconstant." 20:37:35 hey lukego! 20:37:35 gigamonkey, memo from tcr: I just got the acknowdledgement mail from amazon.de that C@W got shipped. 20:37:54 howdy gigamonkey. hey you missed a great book promotion opportunity at eclm on the weekend :) 20:38:05 lukego, yeah. 20:38:14 But thanks again for the kind Amazon review. 20:38:31 but then I guess it was full of interviews with Python hackers like Peters Norvig and Deutsch anyway. :) 20:39:08 is it true that lisp is significantly slower than c++? 20:39:16 i'm not trying to troll, just getting some facts 20:39:53 nor lisp, neither c++ have speed 20:39:53 <_3b> rullie: it is not meaningful 20:39:57 A few more of those and I'll have clawed my way back from the 1-star review from the guy who wasn't expecting a book of interviews. 20:40:13 rullie: performance depends on too many factors to reduce it to a general thing. 20:40:14 Yeah, those Python guys are everywhere. 20:40:17 yeah bad opening :) 20:40:35 I just reread the jwz and brenden eich interviews, both extremely good 20:40:35 Peter Norvig works at google. They all do python there 20:41:35 sykopomp: i'm talking about code that code that generally have the same algorithm 20:41:37 rullie: depends on too many factors. 20:41:52 they need to survive 20:41:53 sykopomp: such as.. 20:41:54 <_3b> rullie: well written, compiled, optimized lisp code can be competitive with speed of compiled optimized c++ code 20:42:11 rullie: such as which algorithm :) 20:42:30 you need to compare compilers, not languages 20:42:54 i read some report somewhere, where someguy wrote a raytracer with c++ and common lisp, c++ was quite ahead in terms of speed 20:43:09 rullie: In general, you need more effort to get at comparative performance. 20:43:09 rullie; it seems it's not slower, but good c hackers can always find a way to make their c cocde even faster 20:43:16 <_3b> rullie: i've read papers where lisp beat c++ 20:43:40 rullie: you can make common lisp run pretty fast when you need to, but it usually comes down to making your code look a lot like C :) 20:43:43 _3b: are you suggesting that lisp is faster at certain tasks? 20:43:56 rullie: OTOH, you need more effort in c++ to get as much done as in Lisp. 20:44:19 <_3b> rullie: no, i'm suggesting that some lisp compilers can compile some lisp code to be faster than comparable c++ code compiled by some c++ compilers 20:44:20 rullie: it's faster to program in, so it's much more flexible with respect to how you're doing stuff 20:44:40 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 20:44:50 <_3b> rullie: 'lisp' and 'c++' are langaages, they have no inherent speed 20:45:01 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 20:45:09 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:45:10 technically, you are supposed to compare implementations 20:45:20 <_3b> rullie: more concretely, sbcl has a nice optimizing compiler, and can generate fast code 20:45:20 rullie: A nice thing is that many Lisp compilers are written in Lisp, so you can easily extend them. 20:45:22 so it would be like intel's compilers vs clisp 20:45:32 different implementations are good at different things, too 20:45:48 _3b: i'm referring to sbcl and g++ if you're keen on that :) 20:45:49 for example, SBCL compiles code extremely slow, but the resulting code is usually pretty damn fast. 20:45:55 see this: http://groups.google.be/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/b22d916acb7be926/cf1cb8532a65c3e7?hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&q=lisp+go+faster+than+C#cf1cb8532a65c3e7 20:45:56 well, clisp is a bad contestant in this regard 20:45:56 rullie: E.g. implement your inner loop with SSE intrinsics etc 20:46:10 xan_ [n=xan@62.78.225.40] has joined #lisp 20:46:28 whereas CCL's compiler is very very fast (compared to SBCL), but its compiled code doesn't -quite- reach SBCL's performance for the most part. 20:46:39 <_3b> rullie: then well written lisp code has a reasonable chance of being competitive with c++ code written in the same amount of time 20:46:47 so if you're writing code in a style that requires a lot of runtime compilation, I imagine SBCL is a fairly bad idea. 20:46:52 <_3b> rullie: (assuming competent programmers in each language) 20:46:57 sykopomp: like g++ compiles blazingly fast? 20:46:59 especially post 5 by scott 20:47:01 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-19-9.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:47:20 stassats`: I've never used g++. 20:47:24 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:47:41 i compiled some programs with, it's damn slow 20:48:03 yeah, it's certainly designed for coffee breaks 20:48:12 yeah, but how much runtime compilation do you do with c++? ;) 20:48:20 but i'm not too concerned with compile time 20:48:40 rullie: What do you want to do that you think performance will be crucial? 20:48:58 gigamonkey: so how are the amazon rankings going for you sofar compared with PCL? 20:49:00 The slowness of C++ compilation has really ruined the reputation of compiled languages 20:49:15 tcr: i just want an idea. for what i have done so far with lisp, performance is not an issue 20:49:34 -!- ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [] 20:49:44 rullie: read the post above and the links to the research papers by Vierna 20:50:33 rullie: As I said, it generally takes effort to get good performance from lisp. Depending on the peculiar problem spot, and the level of performance you want to achieve, this can range from moderate to high effort 20:50:54 rullie: compile time becomes a bigger concern with a certain style of programming. 20:50:58 i like approach of optimizing code by improving compilers 20:51:05 i meant Didier Verna 20:51:08 and the style of development you use when you're coding in lisp+slime 20:51:19 in that case, a slow compiler is a royal pain in the ass. 20:51:36 hm 20:51:54 I'm thinking of using CL for scientific computing in the future, but I'd probably write cffi bindings for CUDA first, anyone have experience with that? 20:52:02 if you just compile a definition at a time it's never a problem 20:52:12 DeusExPikachu: I think madnificent was working on something with CUDA? 20:52:14 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:52:21 what's CUDA? 20:52:27 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229148000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 20:52:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA 20:52:40 a library that lets you program an nvidia card for general purpose computing 20:52:50 DeusExPikachu: I was interested in it, but mostly through opencl. Never used it 20:53:30 ok; when DeusExPikachu says scientific computing, this is very vague 20:53:50 do you mean math? stats? data management? 20:54:25 in my case, all of the above 20:54:38 we generate TBs of data, do lots of math and stats 20:54:43 well you don't need ffi then you can do very good jus in CL 20:55:38 as has been said, well written optimized code goes almost speed ofd light in sbcl and cmucl 20:55:39 francogrex: how can you use CUDA with out ffi? 20:56:09 now that's something else. What does CUDA have to do with mathematical sattistics? 20:56:25 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824085414]"] 20:56:39 -!- mejja [n=user@85.229.182.73] has quit ["linus for president!"] 20:56:44 well for speeding up the huge matrices we need to solve 20:57:13 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079117.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:57:40 look, I've written C and CL programs for datamlining the FDA's database. It's more tha huge and the algos are so complex (baysian data analsys) all done very smotthly with CL 20:58:00 milanj [n=milan@93.86.115.7] has joined #lisp 20:58:06 datamining-analyses-smoothly 20:59:06 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:59 I really can't say the actual distribution of type of work yet cause I just joined this gruop 21:00:25 but since there is soo much data to be processed and computed, I'm pretty sure CUDA can help 21:00:28 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:00:50 ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 21:01:07 I just know it includes all those types mentioned, perhaps eventually a good pipe line of CUDA code and pure CL code would be best in the end 21:01:15 DeusExPikachu: well if it's easily used through CFFI why not use it then. But i suggest first try without it so that you don't do extra for no good reason 21:02:05 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:33 francogrex: well various code has already been implemented in C++ and C, its not my code, it runs and works and runs on our cluster, I'm looking into tweaks or overhauls of different modules using CL and maybe CUDA 21:02:49 but just got into it so can't say much yet 21:03:16 DeusExPikachu: well then that's an advantage, if you're going to use code already written in C 21:04:22 ok; timde to continue some paip reading now... really Peter Norvig a Python Hacker! that must be a joke 21:04:44 minion: have you seen tmh? 21:04:45 i haven't seen tmh 21:04:47 -!- phf [n=user@host.icnfull.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:04:52 I'm off to some aquarium, later for now 21:06:24 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 21:07:34 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:09:01 danlei [n=user@pD9E2D3ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:01 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@90.149.117.111] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:10:08 -!- pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi"] 21:10:54 Ok I just committed something to Slime which I have been using since weeks: M-_ which is basically a cross between slime-who-calls and slime-edit-definition. Basically, it's like M-. but does not show the source of the callee site, but of the caller site. 21:11:41 "the" caller site? 21:12:12 It's also "the" callee site in presence of generic functions with multiple methods 21:12:51 If there are more callers, it'll show an Xref buffer with all the callers listed 21:13:09 tcr: That sounds excellent. 21:13:16 slime-edit-caller ? 21:13:23 callers 21:13:41 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.180.183.69] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:16:06 It's not that different to slime-who-calls (it's based upon it), but it got a much nicer binding than C-c C-w c :) 21:16:31 tcr: M-_ is difficult to type, isn't it? 21:16:57 not if you are using Emacs 21:17:10 -!- phadthai is now known as yeahmynickisbart 21:17:16 SSS 21:17:17 -!- yeahmynickisbart is now known as phadthai 21:17:19 eeh 21:17:20 sorry 21:17:45 ok 21:18:02 stassats`: emacs makes M-_ easier to type? Really? 21:18:16 Oops, _ is next to . on my Germany layout 21:18:31 foom: you should be trained already 21:18:51 stassats`: my emacs doesn't require me to ever type M-_. :) 21:18:59 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:05 I hardly have to type M-_ ever 21:19:13 For US layout, M-? is probably better 21:19:25 leo2007: sure, because it's unbound 21:19:31 I'd just like to note that C-_ and C-/ are the same binding. 21:19:47 foom: M-/ is dabbrev-expand unfortunately 21:20:09 I use M-TAB for that :P 21:20:20 M-_ seems easy enough. left foot meta, shift with left pinky, _ with right pinky. 21:20:54 M-_ is for me the same combo as M-? on an US layout 21:21:13 and M-? seems to be unbound, too, so I'll add that binding 21:21:22 D'accord? 21:22:37 -!- varjag [n=eugene@80.202.117.103] has left #lisp 21:22:54 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:23:02 Dawgmatix_ [n=dman@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:13 stassats`: Do you use a russian keyboard? 21:23:25 i do, yes 21:24:30 but the latin layout should be the same 21:24:57 the same as i don't know 21:25:11 <_3b> yay for buggy libs, appa5rently the code path needed to avoid returned structs or c++ isn't used much :p 21:27:23 looks like US layout 21:27:42 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has joined #lisp 21:29:29 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.218.80] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:29:55 Ok added M-? 21:34:47 -!- rickardg [n=user@c-077671d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:39:49 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:39:49 Geralt1 [n=Geralt@p5B32FC61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:58 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:40:09 -!- Geralt1 is now known as Geralt 21:46:48 -!- mfk [n=user@kpbisb.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:47:47 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:47:59 lukego: still here? 21:48:04 yup 21:48:39 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:48:58 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:08 So, Coders weekly average for this past week has been better than PCL's best ever one-hour. :-) 21:49:29 gigamonkey: the price is amazing for a >600 page book. I suppose they expect to make a lot of volume 21:49:44 :D 21:49:49 good work :) 21:50:03 *literal* was just lamenting the high price of PCL 21:50:05 How much do you get for each copy sold? 21:50:22 lukego: well, it is--as Amazon has finally noted--a paperback. 21:50:26 tcr: (not meaning to pry or anything.. :) 21:50:58 tcr: I think the initial royalty rate is 10% or 12% but that's of what the distributor pays Apress which is quite a bit less than list price, something like 50%. 21:51:07 lukego: But.. but.. we are family aren't we? 21:51:18 I generally think of it as about $1 per book. 21:51:31 It goes up once I've sold a certain number of copies. 21:51:55 I actually get much more from Amazon when someone buys a copy after clicking through from http://www.codersatwork.com/ than I do from Apress. 21:52:42 -!- TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:52:47 How does the payment proceed? I mean in what chunks? 21:53:13 After every so-and-so many sold copies? 21:53:19 Once a quarter, a quarter after. So 90 days after the end of Q4 I should get my first check. 21:54:44 pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:07 I'd probably sell more copies if Apress could #$%@$% got some copies into a local Barnes & Noble. Grrr. 21:55:13 and then you'll be a millionaire? 21:56:14 he'll be so rich that he can finally write a book on an obscure topic 21:56:36 lukego: ;-) 21:56:41 like Common Lisp? 21:57:28 gigamonkey: was a bit surprised when it showed up as a paperback. still working through it. binding is good, interviews are great. 21:59:45 no interview with stroustrup ? ;p 22:00:03 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [] 22:00:07 redline6561: yeah, that was just a glitch in the description. Or maybe Apress was long ago planning on doing a hardback and then changed their mind. 22:00:18 gigamonkey: How long did it take to write your books? 22:00:20 Amazon has finally updated the description but B&N still has it listed as hardcover. 22:00:23 Two years each. 22:00:56 Though Coders was two years part time since I watch my wife and I split kid-watching more or less down the middle. 22:01:28 Patriarcal hegemony made me giggle 22:01:36 Only with better spelling 22:01:53 xristos: i'll pass on stroustrup...but there were a lot of very valid suggestions for people to interview here: http://web.archive.org/web/20071108204841/http://www.codersatwork.com/longlists.html 22:02:01 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.115.7] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:02:28 Indeed. There are any of a number of people who could be swapped into Coders and not make it a worse book. 22:02:45 Hopefully, however, there aren't too many who would have made it a much better book. 22:02:48 Maybe we'll see a CaW sequel...there are certainly enough programmers with insights. Of course, I can understand not wanting to jump into that right away, Peter. :) 22:03:45 or another CL book 22:03:48 Coders at Home? 22:03:58 hahaha 22:05:05 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-16.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 22:05:13 redblue [i=star@ppp122.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:05:20 I will say I'm looking forward to seeing a few more Lisp Out of the Box chapters go up. 22:05:27 *redline6561* redline reminds himself one thing at a time 22:05:53 Lisp out of the box? 22:06:12 pixpop: Yep, see http://lisp-box.org/ 22:06:18 i'm not too excited about that 22:06:33 but it may turn out to be better than i think 22:06:44 pixpop: sorry, http://lisp-book.org/ 22:06:57 xristos, i hear you on that but i'm reserving judgment. 22:07:23 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2D3ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:07:31 on which IRC channel am I most likely to find developers of projects hosted on common-lisp.net? here? 22:07:55 Yeah 22:08:21 ok 22:08:24 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:08:26 xristos: I do wish allegro was a little less emphasized but I'm not writing the book. Also, I haven't even read what's up yet. So doubly reserving judgment. 22:08:45 literal: But each project got its mailing list. Many are available through gmane, too. 22:09:41 I was a bit bemused about the allegro angle. but I just read on the page that each major section will focus on a different implementation. interesting idea and quite possibly a very good one 22:10:42 I like the emu 22:10:56 lukego: ACL for multiprocessing still seems weird to me. 22:11:14 Lisp for multip.. no, nevermind 22:13:02 Smug Erlang Weenie 22:13:06 :-) 22:13:08 lukego: right... But if one wants to go there, exposing the ideas with an implementation that does SMP threading looks more prudent to me. 22:13:34 pkhuong: At the time, the book is out, ACL will probably support SMP 22:13:38 Hi. 22:13:47 howdy! 22:14:16 ACL's multithreading api is pretty clean though methinks. it was neater than SBCL wrt e.g. special variables when we were doing that stuff in slime 22:14:18 tcr: but the examples don't. 22:14:25 *lichtblau* just made a slightly unprepared screencast for the fun of it, hopes it is somewhat interesting anyway 22:14:27 http://www.lichteblau.com/tmp/random-hemlock-stuff.ogv 22:14:36 but that is ancient history I guess 22:14:43 lukego: the implementation leaked a bit into the (de facto) interface. 22:14:54 lukego: All of ACL's API tend to be very clean 22:15:33 jan247 [n=jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 22:15:38 Coliveira__ [n=Coliveir@12.15.114.194] has joined #lisp 22:15:45 as if they had competent people paid to design them! 22:15:47 lichtblau: Yay! I think I'll become a QTHemlock hacker next 22:16:43 QTHemlock? 22:16:45 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:17:05 leo2007: several tests fail with intel sbcl 1.0.29, but that is hinted at when they say to expect minimum with linux, etc, mac/ppc, but don't mention intel mac os. 22:17:30 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:31 lichtblau: snazzy! what's rendering the dependency graph? 22:20:24 lukego: the layout is done by lisp code. Rendering using QGraphicsScene, which allows Lisp to collect Qt drawing operations into item objects, which are then drawn efficiently by the C++ side using a BSP tree. 22:21:45 lichtblau: someone's working on Qt+Lisp again? 22:23:42 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-1-245.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:24:23 -!- pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi"] 22:24:40 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-1-245.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:25:37 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-136.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:25:47 danlei [n=user@pD9E2D3ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:58 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:26:05 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:28:18 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has left #lisp 22:29:47 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:30:31 -!- sepult`` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-225.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:32:31 -!- Coliveira [n=Coliveir@173.12.30.65] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:33:10 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:33:32 -!- Coliveira__ [n=Coliveir@12.15.114.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:33:40 <_3b> anyone have a portable 3d math lib handy? 22:34:57 *_3b* suspects depending on an sbcl/x86-64 only lib would be unpopular :p 22:35:57 <_3b> though i guess it wouldn't take too long to write portable versions if i don't care about speed 22:37:26 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:25 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:38:26 How do I get the asdf-install command which is suggested here? http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc/ 22:38:34 I have SBCL and asdf-install but I don't have that command. 22:38:40 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.47.221] has joined #lisp 22:38:56 <_3b> try (asdf-install:asdf-install 'cl-irc) 22:39:04 <_3b> possibly (require 'asdf-install) first 22:39:14 it should be just (asdf-install:install 'cl-irc) 22:39:15 I know I can do that. 22:39:23 literal: use clbuild! 22:39:26 <_3b> ah, you want a shell command? 22:39:26 I ws just asking about the command-line interface 22:39:34 *_3b* hasn't seen that before 22:40:00 minion: tell literal about clbuild 22:40:01 literal: please look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 22:40:32 icarus [n=tits@unaffiliated/icarus-/x-7520418] has joined #lisp 22:40:47 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:55 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-225.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:42:28 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:44:43 gigamonkey: good news! 22:44:50 Dispatch estimate:21 Sep 2009 22:44:50 Delivery estimate:1 Oct 2009 - 7 Oct 2009 22:44:56 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 22:46:06 once you get used to newegg's delivery speed, amazon seems so slow and annoying. 22:46:14 drewc: is it generally recommended over asdf-install? 22:47:25 minion: what is newegg? 22:47:26 maybe you need to ask my master, chandler - he knows a lot 22:47:43 newegg.com 22:48:10 Adlai: newegg.com. I've gotten deliveries from them overnight, even when you order regular shipping. 22:48:14 they're pretty great. 22:48:37 sykopomp: doesn't look like I could get CaW there, and I doubt they'd deliver overnight across the ocean... 22:48:51 sykopomp: I always get stuff overnight from amazon for stuff that's in stock. 22:48:56 Adlai: nah, I meant as a general thing, with big online store. 22:49:08 tcr: really? That's impressive. They always take bloody forever here. 22:49:13 but then, Germany, isn't that big :) 22:49:45 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:50:20 -!- dthomp [n=dthomp@66.162.150.199] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:50:33 gigamonkey: ping 22:50:57 <_3b> did slime filename completion change whether it adds quotes recently? 22:51:09 fe[nl]ix: doesn't look like he's around 22:51:10 fe[nl]ix: yo. 22:51:41 *_3b* didn't remember it being completely backwards from what i would want previously 22:51:43 I giggled. 22:51:47 *Adlai* eats his words. 22:51:49 gigamonkey: could you add a link to amazon.co.uk to codersatwork.com ? 22:52:02 standard shipping from US to Italy is 3-4 weeks 22:52:39 fe[nl]ix: probably. You mean so you can buy it from there and still give me an Amazon kickback? 22:53:14 yes 22:56:46 Hmmm. Might as well just go ahead and buy it. I think I need to set up a separate Amazon Associates account for .uk 22:57:20 ok 22:58:06 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:51 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 23:00:08 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483BB6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:01:31 Hazelesque [n=hazel@yamada.9noc.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:01 Pegazus [n=Pegazus@186.124.196.231] has joined #lisp 23:03:39 -!- arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:03:42 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:14:40 pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:08 -!- pixpop [n=pixpop@adsl-76-208-129-200.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:23:30 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-078.iasi.cablelink.ro] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:25:38 HET3 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 23:27:44 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:07 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-84-207.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:04 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 23:30:00 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:31:36 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-225.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:32:07 *_3b* uploads http://github.com/3b/classimp (with a boring name) 23:32:44 <_3b> not that anyone can run the demo, most likely 23:32:50 -!- jeti [n=jeti@p548EFC67.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:32:56 *_3b* should work on that part 23:33:19 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-225.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:33:47 aledge [n=aledge@c-66-31-201-186.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:06 hullo 23:36:41 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 23:38:45 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-99-33-92-164.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:43:45 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:43:45 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:43:47 -!- HET3 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:44:25 -!- avar [n=avar@wikipedia/avar] has quit ["leaving"] 23:45:40 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has joined #lisp 23:46:09 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-74-121.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:48:49 -!- aledge [n=aledge@c-66-31-201-186.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:52:39 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:46 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:56:12 Is there a convention for function parameters that aren't used in the function body? 23:57:00 (declare (ignore unused-parameter)) 23:59:50 "The variable FUNCTION is defined but never used" <- Now there's a confusing warning if I ever saw one :D