00:01:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL 00:02:24 interesting how it will stand in court 00:02:28 benny [n=benny@87.122.20.66] has joined #lisp 00:02:59 fuck courts. fuck capitalism. 00:03:00 with who suing whom? 00:03:16 weirdo, you mean, there aren't courts in communist countries? 00:03:22 Anarcho socialist? 00:03:43 Fare, in pooland the state has the right to sue people (not just companies) over copyright infringement 00:03:52 they even require that licenses have to be written in polish 00:04:03 if you don't want to end up in court, don't break the law 00:04:04 Fare: there's always a possibility of suing for whatever reason, IANAL 00:04:05 apparently, a sworn translator has to be hired by the user 00:04:10 Elench, yeah, where everyone is nice to each other and people NEVER ever have a conflict to resolve. 00:04:23 Fare, apparently it worked in anarchist catalonia 00:04:33 Fare: seemed to match with hating capitalism and courts 00:04:50 weirdo, uh? http://economics.gmu.edu/bcaplan/spain.htm 00:05:25 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:06:12 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:06:20 so there's no ideology that doesn't suck. i might as well turn to religion 00:06:38 wait, not even that 00:06:39 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [No route to host] 00:06:51 turn to topic, please 00:07:02 So I hate to ask something on-topic now... I can't get clawk to compile 00:07:40 I get an error in a macro expansion, 00:07:44 stassats, no one's talking on topic so what's the difference? 00:07:49 silence or offtopic? 00:07:54 we'll stop if someone talks on topic 00:07:56 anyone know anything about clawk? 00:07:57 i prefer silence 00:08:19 Sikander: no, but what's the error? 00:08:39 (in macroexpansion of (FORMATTER "~%~t~.2F") 00:08:47 error in FORMAT: unknown directive (character: FULL_STOP) 00:09:00 So apparently the . is not recognised 00:09:35 Oh, wait, maybe it doesn't matter so much, since this error occurs during compilation of a test function 00:09:41 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:08 On the other hand, I'd hate to bump into this same error later on when I compile a similar function... 00:10:27 hmm grab CLTL2 00:10:45 what for? 00:11:08 for finding out what FORMAT line noise means 00:11:17 err 00:11:31 i bet . is a typo for , 00:12:16 btw, i checked the whole 22 chapter and it's missing some directives 00:12:38 stassats: I'll try changing the . for , 00:12:50 for instance ~R without any parameters 00:12:56 it only talks about radix control 00:13:29 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-47-39.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:14:10 stassats: Yep, it compiles now. Weird, this is the clawk I got from cliki. I'll submit a bug or something 00:14:29 not from version control system? 00:14:33 stassats, tcr said something along the lines that he'd prefer you to be the one to implement a new slime protocol message 00:14:36 (if there's one) 00:14:49 oh, no, asdf (yes, I actually use it) 00:14:54 i don't know what he meant exactly, maybe he said he wanted you to explain it, not add a new one 00:15:09 sorry, i'm not a native speaker 00:15:12 is that a bad idea? I'll see if a vcs exists 00:15:14 stassats, could you help me a bit? 00:15:39 weirdo: perhaps 00:15:51 p0a [n=user@athedsl-376259.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 00:15:58 stassats, i need to add a new protocol message. when i add it, it disconnects me from the repl 00:16:00 Hello is slime-cvs 20090106-1 an old/buggy version of slime? 00:16:09 i think i gave you a paste. hold on, i'll check the channel logs 00:16:16 p0a: yes 00:16:27 stassats: thanks 00:16:57 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:17:14 stassats, http://paste.lisp.org/display/85541 00:17:57 so stassats: here's what I was trying to do http://paste.factorcode.org/paste?id=841 (works pretty fast now) 00:18:31 weirdo: ah, still that issue, so, you'd better provide a patch against CVS HEAD, because i'm not very interesting in the manual patching 00:19:04 stassats, nothing changed in that piece of code i think, just paste the sexp inside the case in dispatch-event and slime-dispatch-event 00:19:10 oh wait 00:19:13 you don't want to manually patch 00:19:14 wait 00:19:59 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:44 crap i need to make my own branch because i don't know what i changed 00:21:53 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:21:54 since i committed my changes 00:22:24 ah, excellent 00:22:28 now all the bugs are fixed 00:22:43 unfixed are hiding 00:23:05 If you hide so well I can't find you, you never existed 00:23:18 alec [n=alec@pool-96-237-1-49.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:19 s/I/noone/ 00:23:24 -!- kenpp [n=kenpp@84.92.70.37] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:23:33 who's Noone? 00:23:41 a friend 00:23:53 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:26:56 iwaki [n=hide@PPPa272.osaka.acca.dti.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:30:38 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:09 Ok, so I have asdf and am trying to install these packages that are defined through mk:defsystem. Cliki says that asdf knows how to install those, but it doesn't work. Do I still need mk-defsystem? 00:31:40 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:31:51 asdf doesn't know how to install anything 00:32:02 don't confuse it with asdf-install 00:32:16 Sorry, I stand corrected. 00:32:29 Ok, so I have asdf-install and am trying to install these packages that are defined through mk:defsystem. Cliki says that asdf-install knows how to install those, but it doesn't work. Do I still need mk-defsystem? 00:33:44 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:47 common sense would suggest that you do need it 00:34:27 If i install mk-defsystem, the debugger is invoked because REQUIRE is in locked package COMMON-LISP, and that lock is violated. 00:35:48 and i forgot to add, don't use asdf-install, it adds lots of headache 00:35:53 minion: clbuild? 00:35:53 clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 00:36:45 Ok, trying it now, thanks 00:40:14 -!- egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:41:41 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.123.86.233] has quit ["Valete!"] 00:43:44 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:13 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:45:22 egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has joined #lisp 00:46:21 weirdo pasted "for stassats (sorry it took so long)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86211 00:46:46 weirdo annotated #86211 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86211#1 00:47:15 stassats, meow. are you still there? 00:47:33 yep 00:51:33 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:38 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 00:54:12 i got it 00:54:16 weirdo: do you have "/tmp/lisp-chart-1.png", because if not, truename fails on ot 00:54:32 i forgot about `set-buffer' 00:54:34 now it works 00:54:47 why do you need truename anyway? 00:56:15 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:17 set-buffer? sure you don't want with-current-buffer? 00:57:30 i didn't know about it, thanks 00:57:38 emacs sucks, stuff is named very chaotically 00:57:40 Which library should I use to play some music format (whichever is easier, .wav presumably)? 00:57:45 some stuff is current-foo, other stuff is selected-foo 00:57:59 p0a, fork off an mplayer process 00:58:16 weirdo: provide either a current-* version for the selected-* identifiers, or vice versa 00:58:23 p0a: with-open-file (stream "/dev/dsp" 00:58:29 and use only current-* or selected-*. Whichever convenience you want 00:58:36 stassats: something more portable than that 00:59:29 okay, patch ready for liftoff 00:59:35 weirdo: you could even contribute this to some internet board, if you decide to fix the naming of emacs like that 00:59:54 minion: lispbuilder-sdl? 00:59:55 lispbuilder-sdl: Lispbuilder-SDL provides Common Lisp bindings for the SDL graphics library. http://www.cliki.net/lispbuilder-sdl 00:59:59 p0a, rewriting emacs from scratch is a better goal, see climacs 01:00:04 i need to learn clim eventually and hack on it 01:00:08 because emacs in unbearable 01:00:16 clim has climacs and the listener 01:00:28 climacs seems interesting 01:00:57 -!- [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.95.40.234] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:01:26 p0a: sdl can play music as well, but i don't know how well 01:01:52 stassats: I'll try that then 01:02:34 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:46 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:13:33 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:13:34 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:14:08 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 01:16:05 -!- amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@charanda.shochu.sandino.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:19:37 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:21:07 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 01:22:19 -!- nha [n=prefect@17-70.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:23:38 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:52 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1C1CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:29:51 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:33:42 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@pool-173-73-92-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:11 -!- chessguy_work is now known as chessguy 01:38:43 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 01:40:21 seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:43:20 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:43:50 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-087-052.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:45:10 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 01:47:37 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:49:21 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-376259.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["leaving"] 01:52:17 does anyone use cl-darcs? 01:52:26 i doubt 01:52:45 dammit, I don't want to install darcs... 01:53:03 S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has joined #lisp 01:53:22 I get an error about fd-stream and flexi-io-stream not being compatible 01:57:35 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.201.24] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 01:58:07 I have a question regarding restarts, and mostly the abort restart. Say I (require :some-package), and some-package contains an error, or I'm missing a package. I select the abort restart (in sbcl) and go to fix that error. 01:58:32 When I (require :some-package) again, it doesn't compile anything any more, not even the functions that couldn't compile during the first time. 01:58:43 I have to manually delete the fasls to force recompilation. 01:58:56 Is that how it should be or am I doing something wrong? 02:00:38 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:02:27 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 02:02:38 Sikander: does it help if you use (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'some-system) instead? 02:03:50 luis: I'll give it a try 02:04:12 everything that's good in life is either illegal or np-complete :( 02:04:35 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:04:46 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 02:04:49 Sikander, use asdf-binary-locations so that you could just `rm -rf `~/.fasls` 02:05:15 weirdo: still, that's just a workaround 02:05:27 weirdo: That's what I have. but it just seems silly to do that everytime 02:06:28 Sikander: another workaround is (asdf:oos 'adsf:load-op 'your-system :force t) 02:06:37 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 02:07:18 luis, it's only until Fare saves the day 02:07:59 weirdo: it seems you have a thing for unfinished software. :) 02:08:23 luis, well i used cl-perec for a while too :) 02:08:37 cl-perec is neat. 02:08:39 including 10 forks of popular libraries 02:08:51 c|mell [n=cmell@KD124213182069.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:08:56 i don't like it too much. i'll probably like it after i hack up its internals 02:09:06 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:09:16 see? :) 02:09:29 luis: load-op doesn't work. I really have to use :force t 02:09:56 luis: I mean load-op does work, but it doesn't fix the problem. it works the same as (require ...) 02:10:04 or appears to 02:10:12 -!- metawilm [n=willem@g225097102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 02:10:19 Is this what the abort restart is supposed to do? 02:10:33 Sikander: yeah. If you can come up with a reproducible test case it'd be nice to report that to asdf-devel. 02:11:05 Sikander: but no, the abort restart should cause that. It works for me. 02:11:07 luis: Yeah sure, all the crap lisp code I write causes this error reproducibly! ;) 02:11:17 luis: weird 02:11:33 damn. "should not cause that" is what I meant. 02:11:50 I understand 02:12:17 I'll check asdf-devel, write something up and send it to them. 02:13:46 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-101-220.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:14:08 yeah, that'd be cool. Much better than whining about ASDF like others. :) 02:14:12 *luis* eyes weirdo 02:14:25 :< 02:14:58 Generally I like whining. It's just that I'm probably still new to lisp :) 02:15:27 Anyway, I'll send something to asdf-devel tomorrow. First: sleep. Goodnight 02:15:41 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:15:43 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:16:23 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:48 -!- alec [n=alec@pool-96-237-1-49.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 02:17:54 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:56 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:54 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:17 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 02:27:17 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:30:06 -!- scottmaccal [n=scott@pool-71-173-65-51.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:30:40 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:33:57 hmm scheme's `define' is nice 02:34:16 it can be used outside toplevel, and has less indentation than LABELS 02:34:56 in CL it would involve a code walker 02:35:29 Imagine a class of macro that can decide to include the subsequent forms ... 02:35:44 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:36:47 in portable scheme it can only be used at the beginning of a lambda 02:36:50 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-6.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 02:37:00 Yes, but that's irrelevant to CL. 02:37:02 yeah we talked about these kinds of macros 02:37:20 i'm not sure whether such macros would be good or bad 02:37:41 they could be very useful if implemented wisely 02:38:09 they can be abuset, but... hey, DELETE-FILE can be abused too 02:38:19 [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.95.54.9] has joined #lisp 02:38:40 dys` [n=andreas@95.115.76.241] has joined #lisp 02:39:48 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 02:42:54 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-73-92-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:48:24 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 02:48:54 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:49:07 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@KD124213182069.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:49:24 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 02:49:39 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:49:47 gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:13 -!- pjb [n=t@85-169-63-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:51:57 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 02:52:43 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 02:52:45 saikat_ [n=saikat@r253170035.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 02:53:35 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:54:19 -!- dys [n=andreas@95.115.90.169] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:57:57 pjb [n=t@85-169-63-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 02:58:17 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 03:02:06 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:03:08 -!- seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:03:33 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:37 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 03:04:54 weirdo, D-F does something that is neither possible to do otherwise, nor there is a less confusing way to do it. 03:06:52 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-181-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:08:50 yes, but macros with tail-positions are useful in their own way 03:08:54 coroutines, for instance 03:09:02 or aforementioned "define" 03:09:05 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@r253170035.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [] 03:09:28 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:10:02 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 03:10:53 -!- WhiteFlame [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:12:03 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:12:25 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 03:13:58 what's wrong with me? i've been using emacs for a year and my hands don't hurt 03:17:55 -!- sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:24:02 Good morning everyone! 03:24:37 sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:27:37 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:27:56 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 03:30:27 logBot0995 [n=logBot@59.92.129.50] has joined #lisp 03:34:22 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:35:45 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:08 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has left #lisp 03:36:11 weirdo: Why would they? 03:36:56 beach, before i used emacs i search for info about it and everyone said, like, "vi is better since it doesn't give you repetitive strain injury" 03:36:59 i'm using qwerty, btw 03:37:19 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-221-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:01 Mmmm. Someone might want to update sbcl.org to point to 1.0.31. 03:41:25 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:38 WhiteFlam [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:24 kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.180.197] has joined #lisp 03:45:33 -!- kenjin is now known as Guest61761 03:45:33 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:45:46 -!- Guest61761 is now known as kenjin_che 03:48:54 stw [n=stw@pool-72-88-200-52.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:00 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:53:34 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 03:56:35 weirdo: I have used Emacs with QWERTY for more than 25 years. Never had a problem. I do put my control key where the PC keyboard has capslock, though. 03:57:20 i tend to put frequently-used commands to one-modifier combinations 03:57:52 though modes give me trouble if these bindings conflict. paredit is a major offender, overriding local-set-key 03:57:59 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 03:58:35 weirdo: also, I almost never use the Meta key, I type the combination CTL-[ mumble instead. 03:58:38 -!- sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:59:06 weirdo: And I have erase mapped to C-h. 04:00:45 sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:01:11 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:53 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:03:24 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-181-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:39 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:13 hmm you use typing techniques like "home keys"? 04:05:56 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7E7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:05 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:08:25 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 04:09:03 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:09:27 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 04:09:56 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7E7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:12:31 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:14:33 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:14:53 weirdo: I have formal training in typing, so I use standard techniques like that, yes. 04:17:58 -!- stw [n=stw@pool-72-88-200-52.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 04:19:13 weirdo: you probably didn't yet get your hand stuck in the wheels then ( http://narf.at/pix/d42c49225d59a651bb0accb1886fac5b1a73a484.jpeg :) 04:19:32 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 04:22:56 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:23:16 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 04:25:36 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:25:55 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 04:26:16 Hmmmm. I'm getting two failures running the SBCL 1.0.31 tests that are not labeled "Expected". But they have a bug number assigned to them. What does that mean? 04:26:35 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:31:55 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:32:36 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 04:37:43 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:38:47 anyone written DEFADVICE yet? 04:40:00 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:40:27 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 04:42:45 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E47977.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:12 -!- logBot0995 [n=logBot@59.92.129.50] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:46:37 CyberBlue [n=yong@111.167.28.6] has joined #lisp 04:48:58 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:44 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:50:16 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:58 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:51:20 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:51:28 weirdo: I believe Allegro has some sort of advice functionality. 04:52:06 it doesn't seem hard. clobber function's symbol with a funcallable-standard-instance that does the job 04:52:25 except that redefinition loses the advice 04:53:33 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 05:01:49 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E46576.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 05:02:23 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:02:49 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:03:51 looks like i found a bug in sbcl 05:04:02 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:04:26 weirdo pasted "evaluate this twice to get an error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86217 05:04:27 -!- iwaki [n=hide@PPPa272.osaka.acca.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:05:52 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:07:47 weirdo: well, you also have to account for the possibility of inlining. 05:09:10 i can't do much interesting stuff with ANSI CL 05:09:16 but i can get close 05:10:37 tau [n=gauss@189.127.59.192] has joined #lisp 05:10:42 i could proclaim NOTINLINE implicitly 05:10:46 hey 05:10:51 dalton is here ? 05:16:58 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:16:58 tau: Sometimes, but he hasn't said much worth remembering. Are you new here? 05:17:18 beach, yes 05:17:30 tau: What brings you to #lisp? 05:17:39 beach, is dalton programmer in lisp ? 05:17:50 tau: I don't think so. 05:17:52 beach, friends , help , etc. 05:18:42 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:20:17 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 05:20:18 tau: what brings you to _lisp_? 05:20:32 pjb, friends , help etc 05:20:37 pjb, why ? 05:20:53 tau: pjb was asking why you decided to learn the Lisp language. 05:20:54 You find a language such as lisp helpful? 05:21:09 and friendly? 05:21:40 oh yeah 05:21:53 beach, because lisp is a language for IA. 05:22:03 i like algoritms of IA. 05:22:12 That's a good reason. 05:22:16 Have you read PAIP? 05:22:17 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:22:24 tau: Are you also from Brasil like dalton? 05:22:42 -!- tau is now known as tauu 05:23:13 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@216-176-41.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 05:23:44 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:23:45 -!- tauu is now known as tau 05:23:52 tau: Usually, we say "AI" in English. "IA" is used in latin-based languages. 05:24:26 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 05:25:03 how i hate hate hate MULTIPLE-VALUE-BIND and DESTRUCTURING-BIND 05:25:05 beach, ahh yes 05:25:08 sorry. 05:25:08 i hate them from the bottom of my heart 05:25:22 Hence the famous movie "AI" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0212720/ 05:25:41 weirdo: what's wrong with them? 05:25:44 tau: However, Common Lisp is a general-purpose programming language; in particular it has an object-oriented system that is more powerful than more traditional class-centric languages do. 05:25:50 for all the years i jumped through hoops to fit into 80 columns when using them! 05:25:55 beach, wait. 05:25:56 please. 05:26:10 but no longer! i will use bind and not try to minimize dependencies of my systems! 05:26:12 weirdo: loose the 80-columns. Buy a wide screen, and split it in two columns. 05:26:34 pjb, i have a wide screen and until yesterday i used 3 80-column frames 05:27:01 I tried 3 columns, but with ratpoison, it's easier to use only two. 05:27:06 i also don't like let-blocks 05:27:24 it should be as simple as (setq foo 42) 05:27:42 weirdo: ? 05:27:50 it's strange how algol languages all got it right but not lisp 05:27:55 weirdo: you mean line define in scheme? I don't like it. 05:27:57 <_3b> weirdo: would you use the same broken scoping as JS too? 05:28:01 beach, compare foo = 42 to (let ((foo 42)) ...) 05:28:09 (begin (define foo 42) ...) is worse than (let ((foo 42)) ...) 05:28:15 _3b, no, like perl 05:28:34 weirdo: You have to somehow know the end of the scope of the local variable. 05:28:35 <_3b> weirdo: haven't used perl much, how does it differ? 05:28:38 perl even allows one to create new variables inside complex expressions 05:28:56 and they get evaluated according to evaluation order 05:28:57 for instance 05:29:26 Or like ruby, if you don't assign variable outside of a block, inside it's not free! 05:29:26 foo ? 42 : bar(my $baz = 69, $baz ^ 2) 05:29:38 pjb, that's quite sane imo 05:29:58 but i hate ruby for end-blocks 05:30:00 weirdo: it's implicit. Better use LET and thus declare the scope explicitely. 05:30:13 pjb, but implicit scoping is deterministic 05:30:21 it has its gotchas, but can be learnt rather quickly 05:30:24 explicit even more so. 05:30:35 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:52 but i find myself writing LETs with empty bodies and then get yelled at by SLIME 05:31:06 In term of code modification, (copy-and-paste), explicit scoping is safer. 05:31:09 there's also the argument that explicit scoping increases reading comprehension 05:31:40 i found myself struggling to understand dead simple python code, but it could also be variable naming scheme 05:31:54 these retarded languages don't allow hyphens, so people use variables like 'c', 's', 't' 05:32:06 not to mention function names 05:32:26 and there's no xref, so i don't know the type, the semantics, the variable name... nothing 05:32:46 not allowing hyphens is the biggest crime against humanity of ALGOL-based languages 05:33:09 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:33:48 one can use glasses-mode, but people won't write sane variable names, so it doesn't matter if camel case looks as hyphens or not if it's all abbreviated and unintelligible 05:33:52 (let ((i 1)) (let ((i 2)) (print i)) (print i)) is clear and safe. In Ruby, begin ; i=1 ; begin ; i=2 ; puts i ; end ; puts i ; end # prints 2 twice... 05:34:25 -!- _3b` [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:35:22 *tau* back 05:35:39 beach, i am from brazilian, sorry , my english is bad. 05:35:47 BrianRice` [n=water@71.59.210.115] has joined #lisp 05:35:53 beach, you are a good man. 05:36:09 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:36:15 beach, thanks. 05:36:19 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 05:37:34 pjb, some languages go as far as disallowing variable shadowing, not that i could agree with it 05:37:50 yeah, some things like shadowing are confusing with implicit scoping 05:38:09 ocaml code apparently uses shadowing extensively 05:38:36 hmm but i don't do ocaml because of harrop combined with my outgroup homogenity bias 05:42:56 _3b` [i=foobar@70.112.214.100] has joined #lisp 05:42:56 fusss [n=chatzill@115.128.36.5] has joined #lisp 05:43:20 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:44:42 are there any commonplace strategies on implementing full-text search with an standalone search engine, instead of using database-specific solutions? specially with respect to search result security (i.e. user can search their private records; admin can search all; and others can search public documents) etc. 05:45:23 i am trying to roll out a montezuma solution and it works for specific *documents*; what i want is to index all user submitted content .. 05:45:39 *fusss* is just thinking out loud, in case anybody wants to pitch in 05:47:18 i am thinking of giving each use a private index; user can mark some inputs as public, either manually or through category-flags (i.e. all blog posts are public by default, and all incoming mail is private) 05:47:39 public data has its own master index 05:48:14 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:49:11 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 05:50:20 it's a SMOP in SQL 05:50:55 Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp118-208-141-225.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:39 i don't like "intentional data types", too 05:52:53 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:53:22 they're only really used because 1) instances take more space 2) there are no generic sequences, maps, etc. 05:53:41 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 05:54:06 0 05:54:27 am i at the toplevel now? 05:54:32 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 05:57:22 sellout [n=greg@static062038142248.dsl.hol.gr] has joined #lisp 05:59:07 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-221-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:12:17 iwaki [n=hide@PPPa272.osaka.acca.dti.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:12:18 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:12:58 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 06:15:11 seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:18:41 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:19:09 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:20:24 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 06:21:50 hm, why not use the db and sql, fusss ? .. i don't know much about full-text searching, but i think postgresql has support for that sort of thing 06:23:02 lnostdal: we're expecting heavy users, and slightly heavyish text searching 06:23:26 i want to isolate the search engine on its own, so later we're free to throw in Lucene or something else "industry standard" 06:28:48 are there problems to expect for SLIME with emacs 23.1? 06:29:19 not that i know of, michaelw .. i've been running 23.1.x for a few weeks 06:31:58 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:32:57 hello 06:38:56 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:38:56 benny` [n=benny@i577A1E26.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:39:19 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 06:40:00 -!- benny [n=benny@87.122.20.66] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:41:21 -!- iwaki [n=hide@PPPa272.osaka.acca.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:47:52 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:49:33 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:49:36 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 06:49:40 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 06:49:58 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 06:50:25 Athas [n=athas@80.161.87.214] has joined #lisp 06:50:44 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 06:51:11 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest38831 06:56:20 sellout- [n=greg@static062038142248.dsl.hol.gr] has joined #lisp 06:56:23 how much does it take to write SUBTYPEP? 06:56:39 is it np-complete for some cases? 06:56:49 i tried asking on #math but they said something along the lines of "stfu, noob" 06:56:53 -!- sellout [n=greg@static062038142248.dsl.hol.gr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:58:08 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-207.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:00:13 oh wait 07:00:16 it's prolog, isn't it? 07:00:25 isn't SUBTYPEP what prolog does? 07:00:27 meow? 07:00:35 -!- Guest38831 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 07:01:10 weirdo: http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/Subtypep.html 07:01:34 thank you! 07:01:43 but is it prolog? :) 07:07:18 girzel [n=user@123.121.245.176] has joined #lisp 07:07:47 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:09:15 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:10:09 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 07:12:34 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:13:05 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 07:13:57 -!- [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.95.54.9] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:15:21 girzel` [n=user@123.121.237.195] has joined #lisp 07:17:58 benny [n=benny@87.122.30.38] has joined #lisp 07:18:49 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A1E26.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:20:20 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:22:29 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 07:23:22 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:23:39 angerman [n=angerman@host41.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:24:03 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:24:06 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 07:28:55 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:00 -!- girzel [n=user@123.121.245.176] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:36:49 sundar [n=IMeMysel@122.175.80.100] has joined #lisp 07:37:22 sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 07:37:31 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-103.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:37:51 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:38:37 -!- andrewks [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-123-33.d-ip.magma.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:41:36 -!- slava [n=slava@li13-154.members.linode.com] has quit ["leaving"] 07:48:29 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:49:52 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:50:18 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has joined #lisp 07:50:21 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 07:52:49 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-207.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:53:37 -!- tau [n=gauss@189.127.59.192] has quit ["Saindo"] 07:54:15 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:54:37 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 07:57:16 WhiteFlame [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:07 Is there some built-in functionality for "unit-testing" i CL? 08:05:48 or should I say, prefered way of doing testing? 08:06:05 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:06:19 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.19.165] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:06:39 sayyestolife: there's the fiveam unit framework afaik. 08:06:49 there is assert .. (assert (= 4 (+ 2 2)) 08:07:01 okay thanks 08:07:59 metawilm [n=willem@g225097102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:09:06 -!- lujz [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-26-210.dynamic.amis.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:09:26 lujz [n=lujz@92.37.26.210] has joined #lisp 08:09:39 -!- prip [n=_prip@host30-133-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:10:22 -!- lujz [n=lujz@92.37.26.210] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:12:42 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:45 is too much meta a good thing? 08:14:14 or is it bad to make a meta-evaluation protocol, a meta-parsing protocol and such? 08:14:32 oh yeah, and meta-codewalking protocol 08:16:50 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:17:07 weirdo: a practical answer could be: if you need to define at least two instances of the meta-thing, it could be worth it... like if you need to define two different code walkers, sharing the common structure sounds good to me 08:17:38 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229232247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:18:14 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 08:18:47 my concern is 1) overengineering 2) making the protocol obsolete after optimizing/rewriting the code 08:19:58 right... maybe only start extracting the meta parts when you see the need, and not doing it from the start? refactoring is fairly easy in Lisp after all 08:20:21 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:21:05 the meta parts might make good libraries to share 08:22:27 -!- ia_ [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Client Quit] 08:25:48 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-14-80.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:25:51 legumbre_ [n=user@190.135.5.177] has joined #lisp 08:31:38 HG` [n=HG@xdslhp184.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:21 -!- Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp118-208-141-225.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:41:48 Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp118-208-167-45.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:24 m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:52:44 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 08:53:02 -!- Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp118-208-167-45.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:53:39 clsql could be a tad bit frustrating sometimes 08:54:07 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:55:17 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:56:11 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@115.128.36.5] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]"] 09:02:47 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:04:29 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:04:34 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:57 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:33 it is. drop it for perec's sake 09:07:06 heh 09:10:58 Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp118-208-128-86.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:20 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.58.5] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:16:51 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-103.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 09:18:40 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@63.196.107.132] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:22:50 rdd [n=user@c83-250-159-12.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:37:58 just to throw a general question out there; is it a good idea to make lisp-DSL's? 09:38:21 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:39:16 sayyestolife: yes, it is. 09:42:42 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:44:11 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 09:44:52 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.114.110.177] has joined #lisp 09:45:16 oh my. why does introspecting on ASDF systems load them? 09:45:45 -!- Pepe__ [n=ppjet@78.114.110.177] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:50:02 ejs [n=eugen@181-21-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:14 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.116.36.79] has joined #lisp 09:54:38 weirdo: you mean, load the system definition? 09:54:47 sayyestolife: yes, that's in fact the typical way of developing lisp apps 09:54:54 (or load-op'ing?) 09:58:41 weirdo: to get the system's data to introspect, the .asd file has to be loaded. 09:59:23 -!- seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:59:40 Of course, this will execute the code that is in the .asd file. 10:00:17 Lisp configuration files are executables! cf. ~/.emacs ~/.clisprc, etc. 10:00:31 but they needn't be, see the discussion about DSLs above (: 10:01:05 Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 10:02:24 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-191-200.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:13 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:12:36 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:14:45 trebor_home [n=email@dslb-084-058-241-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:38 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 10:18:44 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-181-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:20:30 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:23:38 andrewks [n=aks@ottawa-hs-206-191-39-117.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #lisp 10:23:58 lujz [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-23-183.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:02 girzel`` [n=user@123.121.240.248] has joined #lisp 10:29:06 -!- sundar [n=IMeMysel@122.175.80.100] has quit [Success] 10:31:36 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:31 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 10:35:38 antifuchs, oh. i thought the system has to be asdf:load-op'd 10:35:48 it's OK then 10:37:48 I thought so... 10:39:16 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-114.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:45:33 -!- girzel` [n=user@123.121.237.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:46:35 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:48:56 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 10:50:07 nha [n=prefect@17-70.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:52:41 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-207.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:54:22 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@111.167.28.6] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:57:19 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 10:58:55 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Client Quit] 10:59:17 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 11:00:45 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E47977.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:38 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 11:05:05 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest36831 11:05:46 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32FD90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:17 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit ["Caught sigterm, terminating..."] 11:09:20 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 11:11:06 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:12:09 _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E47977.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:45 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Client Quit] 11:14:48 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 11:15:33 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E47977.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:19:16 nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 11:21:01 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 11:25:44 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E47977.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:30:09 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 11:30:26 wheeee, now I have SBCL dying with "set_pseudo_atomic_atomic: pseudo atomic bits is -1232750104." 11:31:50 you broke it! 11:34:39 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:36:34 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:38:27 mgm [n=mgm@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 11:38:39 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 11:39:48 laynor_ [n=laynor@93.107.18.80] has joined #lisp 11:40:21 newbie question: given (defparameter foo "bar") how can i get the variable binding for the symbol 'foo ? (This is assuming foo is a constructed symbol..) 11:41:36 nunb: (symbol-value 'foo) 11:42:05 nun: foo is a dynamic variable so use *foo*, not foo 11:42:29 or just *foo* 11:42:32 cool, thanks both. 11:43:49 -!- sayyestolife is now known as weareyourfriends 11:44:51 -!- Guest36831 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 11:47:03 (symbol-value _foo) => error 11:47:22 I would like to get "BAR" from _foo 11:47:59 -!- _Trickster_ [i=Trickste@77.232.135.67] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:48:01 nunb: quote _foo: (symbol-value '_foo) 11:48:05 nunb: '_foo 11:48:21 \ 11:49:22 that works, thanks. 11:49:26 (how-do-i-get-laid) 11:49:53 that's implementation specific 11:50:16 heh 11:51:14 weareyourfriends: get Closer and use define-layered-function 11:51:38 -!- laynor [n=laynor@93.107.79.122] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:51:38 AspectL? 11:51:55 ContextL 11:51:59 :o 11:52:08 right 11:52:21 (make-alcohol) 11:52:41 or rather (drink alcohol) 11:52:48 actually i'm currently developing "define-layered-macro", for meta-layering fun 11:52:51 |Trickster| [i=Trickste@77.232.135.67] has joined #lisp 11:52:53 nunb pasted "A lispier way to do this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86226 11:53:43 nunb: *foo*, not _foo 11:53:53 I would like table-names defined as parameters with select statements, and then build a hash-representation of the table that-a-ways. Is there a lispier way to do this? 11:54:05 there's no good reason to change the convention, and SBCL even warns you when you do things wrong and they're named conventionally 11:54:49 mathrick: is that just a question of naming, or does sbcl not find the binding because of it? 11:55:03 naming only 11:55:10 but that's important, for yourself and your readers 11:55:11 -!- sellout- [n=greg@static062038142248.dsl.hol.gr] has quit [] 11:55:13 Another option would be to write a macro, but I thought futzing with symbols may allow me to do this via functions. 11:55:21 mathrick: got it, will do. 11:55:29 and as I said, SBCL will warn on things like *FOO* that isn't special, or FOO that is 11:56:18 nunb: also, don't use (format nil "~A" symbol). Say (string symbol) instead 11:56:33 that will make your code work with other case settings than your own 11:56:48 sellout [n=greg@static062038142248.dsl.hol.gr] has joined #lisp 11:56:49 Uhm? 11:57:11 *print-case* 11:57:20 and readtable-case 11:57:49 why the latter? 11:58:03 because FORMAT obeys that 11:58:17 it matter mostly with :INVER, but it does 11:58:22 mathrick: I doubt it. FORMAT use the printer, not the reader. 11:58:23 :INVERT 11:58:30 pjb: try it :) 11:58:45 in SBCL it does matter 11:59:21 You're right. I didn't know that. 12:01:31 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@188.3.224.106] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:02:13 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:02:47 is there a semantic difference between STRING and SYMBOL-NAME? I usually use the latter because it's shorter 12:03:29 string accepts also strings and characters. 12:03:45 So if you know you have a symbol, symbol-name is better, typewise. 12:03:53 symbol-name makes the intention clear (: 12:04:04 string too, if that's that intention! :-) 12:04:25 sure, but symbol-name is narrower in scope (: 12:04:36 Yes. 12:05:46 STRING is good when you want to accept a symbol designator, not just symbol 12:06:00 and shorter 12:08:02 -!- Dodek [n=dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit ["leaving"] 12:08:48 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 12:11:35 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:01 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:15:59 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:17:06 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:18:10 :interactive for restarts is saddening 12:18:22 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:27 i can't find a way to integrate this with GUI 12:18:40 hmm. 12:18:53 i could provide a input prompt and make an input string from it 12:18:58 it would work, right? right? 12:20:02 clhs compute-restarts 12:20:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_comp_1.htm 12:20:15 You can implement invoke-a-restart as you want, even with a GUI. 12:22:30 pjb: do you mean invoke-restart? 12:22:53 -!- Athas [n=athas@80.161.87.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:23:11 No, invoke-restart is in CL, you cannot re-implement it. I mean invoke-a-restart in the Examples section of compute-restarts. 12:23:40 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:29 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:24:30 ah, I see. sorry for "correcting" you :) 12:24:40 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-221-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:32 Adlai: No problem, keep at it, eventually I'll be corrected! :-) 12:25:41 -!- lujz [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-23-183.dynamic.amis.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:26:25 If I have passed in a function as a parameter, is there a way of getting the name of the function, so I can print it out? 12:26:29 (common-lisp) 12:26:40 weareyourfriends: no. Functions may be anonymous. 12:26:57 PRINC-TO-STRING might give you some implementation-dependent substitute 12:27:06 hmm okay 12:27:16 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit ["C-x C-c"] 12:27:26 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 12:27:27 for instance, naming local functions as (LABELS FOO) and he like 12:27:41 the like* 12:27:49 hm, but I pass it in a symbol? like (my-func 'foo) 12:27:52 I wonder if a function parameter comes more often from (function f) or from (lambda ...). 12:27:55 as a* 12:27:55 except it's surrounded in sharpsign and all that crap 12:28:04 weareyourfriends: yes, symbols are function designators. 12:28:12 weareyourfriends, also see SWANK which most probably includes said functionality 12:28:30 mkay, thanks 12:28:45 weareyourfriends: but notice that apply doesn't necessarily call the same function when you pass (quote f) vs. (function f). 12:28:46 pjb, what's your problem with #'? :) 12:28:55 yay! 12:28:58 it works 12:29:08 turns out I was tripping myself 12:29:25 weirdo: some people are still in denial of readmacros... 12:29:25 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 12:29:32 I hate when debug code comes back to bite me 12:30:56 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 12:31:24 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest27128 12:31:36 weirdo: It's just that I like the roundness of parentheses better. 12:32:02 Adlai, but #\( is a read-macro too, so it's not it 12:32:10 round parens... almost like titties 12:32:36 (.)(.) exactly like. 12:32:57 except for no tactile sensation 12:33:15 I've got a round Apple mouse, with the little track ball on the top... 12:33:25 *Adlai* shakes his head sadly, at what has become of the channel... 12:33:33 pjb, how many buttons does it have? 12:33:48 five or seven, but I disactivate half of them... 12:36:23 this cannot be. an apple mouse with more than one button 12:36:36 the world is truly coming to an end. repend before it's all too late! 12:37:02 by the way, for whom it may concern (aka weareyourfriends, mathrick, and metawilm): 12:37:09 minion: irc quotes 12:37:09 irc quotes: Some moments from Freenode IRC, preserved for posterity, some humorous. http://www.cliki.net/irc%20quotes 12:37:54 *Adlai* found that worthy of preservation 12:38:12 heh :) 12:38:13 -!- Guest27128 is now known as lexa_ 12:38:43 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest40643 12:39:38 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:40:55 haroelcabo [n=user@r190-132-97-171.dialup.mobile.ancel.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:41:13 -!- froog_ is now known as froog 12:43:04 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 12:44:14 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:44:59 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has left #lisp 12:45:54 htk_ [n=htk___@188.3.227.219] has joined #lisp 12:46:29 Have fun with your mouse, with the cubo webbot: http://cubo.cc 12:46:39 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:47:15 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:48:13 -!- Guest40643 is now known as lexa_ 12:48:30 i can imagine a class of people using this applet for prolonged periods of time 12:48:43 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest35903 12:49:09 Hey! She's nice! :-) 12:49:18 she's creepy 12:50:08 it would be strange if someone saw me using that 12:50:09 :-) 12:50:24 nice texturing, modelling, etc 12:50:30 froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 12:50:41 nice uncanny valley 12:50:58 -!- Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp118-208-128-86.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:54:00 -!- ejs [n=eugen@181-21-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:54:11 hmmm ever so slightly [OT], but anyways... 12:54:30 I got a personal use (noncommercial) license for SCL, for my 64-bit Linux system 12:54:30 -!- haroelcabo [n=user@r190-132-97-171.dialup.mobile.ancel.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:55:28 but it now says that the systems that it's configured for are Fedora, RedHat, or Debian... but I'm on a different Linux. Is it OK to just pick one of these and download the binary? 12:56:07 why would you run scieneer common lisp? 12:56:24 Adlai, it is. you might have different library versions 12:56:30 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:56:36 but you might just as well download them and either use LD_LIBRARY_PATH or a chroot 12:56:46 checking whether stuff is portable over different implementations 12:59:18 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:59:20 Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp121-44-218-172.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:52 -!- froog_ is now known as froog 13:01:28 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [] 13:01:36 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-114.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:02:04 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-130.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:03:18 -!- Guest35903 is now known as lexa_ 13:03:48 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest10396 13:05:36 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-106-227.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:08:23 -!- Guest10396 is now known as lexa_ 13:08:53 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest45158 13:13:15 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:27 -!- Guest45158 is now known as lexa_ 13:13:57 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest63005 13:14:38 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:16:22 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:32 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 13:18:02 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:19:13 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:19:16 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:22:18 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:23:28 -!- Guest63005 is now known as lexa_ 13:23:50 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 13:23:58 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest15601 13:28:07 easyE [i=[0w9tJXu@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:21 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 13:31:46 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:34:05 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:34:23 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:18 blitz_ [n=blitz@dslb-094-222-057-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:01 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 13:37:58 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:39:13 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:41:05 -!- emacs-dwim [n=user@cpe-74-71-11-230.twcny.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 13:42:14 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:34 -!- cmeme [n=cmeme@boa.b9.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:44:53 cmeme [n=cmeme@boa.b9.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:08 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7E7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:10 chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-73-92-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:14 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-35-250-211.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:45:39 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:56 sepult [n=user@87.78.122.133] has joined #lisp 13:50:02 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:09 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:50:26 -!- Guest15601 is now known as lexa_ 13:50:56 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest39082 13:50:57 -!- mikezor_ is now known as mikezor 13:51:05 -!- Guest39082 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:53:21 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit ["reboot"] 13:55:07 -!- sepult [n=user@87.78.122.133] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:56:13 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:58:00 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 14:01:37 tczy [n=tczy@78-60-36-72.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 14:07:00 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-71-146.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:07:17 why doesn't WRITE print expressions fully, only printing #, when i have :print-level and :print-length set to nil explicitly as a keyword argument? 14:07:30 i also WROTE explicitly instead of relying on the slime-repl printer 14:07:36 but to no avail 14:09:07 weirdo: ie. in a Lisp run outside of SLIME? 14:09:16 it's not 14:09:36 also, the output is presentation'ed, which is strange, for explicit WRITE 14:10:28 weirdo: needs test case, it seems to write things properly here 14:11:25 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-221-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:11:32 can you use CL-SERIALIZER or CL-STORE? 14:11:49 because i can't really print it into the REPL 14:11:58 btw, it's supposed to be a code block but it's all wrong 14:12:14 so don't try to execute it and expect sane results 14:12:32 but i can't see anything if it's like, (apply # # (or ...)) 14:14:07 oh. crap. i can't even serialize the cons because it contains raw lambdas in it 14:15:50 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:16:32 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:17:37 jkantz_ [n=jkantz@c-66-31-31-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:33 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:15 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:22:47 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit ["next attempt"] 14:27:09 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has quit ["Verlassend"] 14:30:26 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-219-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:00 weirdo: because the keywords are not :print-level :print-length. 14:31:27 well, they're :level and :length 14:31:29 hmm 14:31:32 i need to get some sleep 14:31:37 i can't get a simple reduction right 14:36:51 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:38:09 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:39:14 sepult [n=user@87.78.122.133] has joined #lisp 14:40:19 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 14:45:14 ajhager [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:40 -!- ajhager [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:00:00 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-2-12.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:41 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:34 milanj [n=milan@93.86.188.153] has joined #lisp 15:08:31 how do you write a elisp function that slime-eval-defun and then slime-eval some form given as argument to the function ? 15:08:50 yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@93-120-128-88.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 15:08:56 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:24 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:09:35 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 15:11:30 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:13:17 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:23 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Client Quit] 15:16:27 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:17:27 (defun lhz:foo (form) (slime-eval-defun) (slime-eval form)) 15:18:34 bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-140.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:52 -!- girzel`` [n=user@123.121.240.248] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:21:39 -!- lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:22:08 why is the function passed to SORT a predicate? 15:22:19 to know what to sort on, of course? 15:22:22 C-ish languages usually have a ternary function 15:22:31 oh. heh. 15:22:43 ugh. not three arguments, three possible returns 15:22:47 But the predicate surely takes two parameters? 15:22:50 Right. 15:23:31 so that C's sort "knows" the same amount of data in just one call of the function, not two 15:24:52 So you can pass #'<, was probably not deemed the effort to come up with something new 15:26:33 clhs sort 15:26:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sort_.htm 15:27:03 -!- asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [] 15:27:54 well, in lisp there's decorate-sort-undecorate 15:29:54 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-105-177.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:44 asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:30 So C assumes the order is total. 15:32:59 uhm CL does too 15:33:07 It does? 15:34:04 anybody know what the init file is for SCL? 15:35:29 isn't totally just a fancy way of saying that you can compare two elements in the list? 15:35:52 Adlai: man sbcl 15:36:27 tic: it says that you can compare every two elements. 15:36:40 tic: otherwise it would be partial ordering 15:37:55 tic: the wikipedia is your friend. see partially ordered set 15:38:18 blitz_, WP is where I looked up total ordering as I'd forgotten it. Says a<=b or b<=a. e.g. you can compare [any] two elements in the list. 15:38:22 (string= "SCL" "SBCL) => Error: (error Synchronous Lisp Evaluation aborted) 15:38:40 hmmm I guess I suck at life, but you get my point: 15:38:47 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 15:38:47 (string= "SCL" "SBCL") => NIL 15:38:54 tic: totality is uninteresting (it's obvious that you must be able to compare all elements pairwise) 15:39:05 tic: anti-symmetry is the one that you can easily mess up 15:39:34 tcr, yup. 15:41:06 for example, combining predicates via OR is almost certainly wrong 15:41:21 tcr: a predicate in CL doesn't give you a total order. It's allowed to say NIL for every question 15:42:08 #'< is "is a smaller than b?". You can say "yes", "no, it isn't" or "no, I can't tell you" 15:42:17 the two latter cases are both NIL 15:42:39 -!- hadronzoo [n=user@ppp-70-251-74-36.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:42:52 What's the point? You want fuzzy logic? 15:43:11 tcr: Partial orders are common. 15:44:02 tcr: The question is whether CL assumes that if neither (funcall #'< a b) nor (funcall #'< b a) then a is equal to b. 15:44:16 tcr: the point is that you can sort with such a predicate 15:44:28 and contrary to what you said, it doesn't imply any total order 15:45:02 beach: I don't believe it's allowed to 15:45:08 but I'd have to consult the spec 15:45:11 -!- sepult [n=user@87.78.122.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:45:20 I'm sorry I don't see your point 15:45:49 but I'm not giving much attention; today's cleaning day 15:45:55 the spec says that sort always terminates of the predicate always terminates and produces a potentially random permutation of the sequence if the predicate is no ordering relation 15:45:55 why does it need to have a point? CL places minimal restrictions on what predicates you can sort with 15:46:00 beach: it can't, because you only pass one predicate -- thus, unless the Lisp has some magic going on if the test-function is eq to #'< or #'>, it can't know what the reverse sort function is 15:46:00 tcr: heh, here too 15:46:16 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:46:44 letexpx [n=letexpx@abo-223-141-68.bdx.modulonet.fr] has joined #lisp 15:46:48 Adlai: does it need to? 15:46:52 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-73-92-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 15:47:13 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:47:38 blitz_: " tcr: The question is whether CL assumes that if neither (funcall #'< a b) nor (funcall #'< b a) then a is equal to b." <= How else could it know to pick #'< when given #'> ? 15:48:38 beach: How can you sort meaningfully with a predicate that does not specify a order for all pairwise elements of a set (i.e. is partial)? 15:48:58 Adlai: All that is required by the sort function is that in the resulting sequence no element i+1 is #'< than element i. 15:49:14 tcr: My comment to Adlai goes for you too. 15:49:31 tcr: Partial sorting is common too. 15:49:48 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:49:53 it's both common and desired in many cases 15:49:56 beach: I wasn't arguing that, I was just pointing out that the assumption you mentioned can't really be true. 15:50:10 I feel stupid, but a partial-order predicate could legitimately signal an error on some pair of input, can't it? 15:50:11 because with partial sorts, you can preserve subsorts 15:50:23 (damn, my algorithmics has deteriorated awfully) 15:50:29 tcr: no 15:50:52 it will just give an answer that doesn't specify either element to be < than the other 15:51:04 where < is an arbitrary ordering relation 15:51:08 anyways, to restate my earlier question: what's the init file for SCL? (no #\B) 15:51:09 *shi[ 15:51:24 Adlai: strace scl ? 15:51:40 *Adlai* looks up strace 15:51:41 mathrick: Ah, ok that was your "don't know" above 15:51:41 Adlai: What assumption was that? 15:51:56 -!- gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:52:35 beach: I'm an idiot. Nevermind... I missed that you switched the predicates, and thought that you had #'> in the second funcall. Sorry. 15:53:04 klepparii [n=spa@85-220-67-230.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 15:54:02 gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:13 * switched the arguments 15:55:20 *Adlai* should probably go to sleep. 15:56:19 sleep is for the weak 15:57:39 Faed [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:03 araujo: and the sick, perhaps? I'd fall into the latter category atm... 15:58:13 -!- yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@93-120-128-88.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:59:33 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 15:59:33 regarding SCL: I can't tell from the strace output where SCL is searching for init files; I don't see any .lisp files being examined. Any further ideas? 16:00:07 Isn't there any documentation for scl? 16:03:21 rtoym: there is, but I can't find any mention of init files there. I'll email Douglas Crosher. 16:03:33 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:50 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:41 I would guess .scl.lisp, .scl-init.lisp, or maybe .init.lisp. 16:06:11 ah, I see that I can use a "-init" command-line arg. That'll do the trick, since I'll only be using it through SLIME. 16:07:05 -!- bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-140.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:09:04 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:00 has anyone here experience of getting clsql via freetds talking to ms-sqlserver? I am getting UTF-8 errors in cffi::foreign-string-to-lisp, on sbcl. 16:11:02 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:12:39 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:03 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:15:54 nunb: surely that means your data is not encoded using UTF-8 16:16:11 nunb: you can use a different encoding if you wish and/or ignore the errors 16:16:49 (let ((cffi:*default-foreign-encoding* :iso-8859-1)) ...) for instance 16:17:27 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:19:28 vyazovoi [n=vyazovoi@horrible-unlim.vpn.mgn.ru] has joined #lisp 16:21:10 luis: no, I tried that, and trapping the condition seems the only option left. 16:21:31 -!- Guest933` [n=user@72.14.228.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:22:24 logBot1372 [n=logBot@59.96.202.193] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:50 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:23:06 nunb: you can also bind babel:*suppress-character-coding-errors* to t. 16:23:57 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:24:28 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 16:27:09 babel-encodings:*suppress-character-coding-errors*, actually 16:27:24 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:27:47 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:28 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 16:28:29 is this correct: (symbol-macro-p symbol) == (nth-value 1 (macroexpand-1 symbol)))) 16:29:22 well, consider whether you're macroexpanding in the right environment. other than that, yes 16:29:26 But why do you want to do that? 16:30:15 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:42 chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-73-92-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:46 i'm trying to create a a compiler macro for multiple-value-call that replaces it by funcall 16:30:49 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-73-92-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:30:56 if all parameters lead to one value 16:31:24 defining compiler macros for builtin symbols is prohibited to conforming programs 16:31:29 i know 16:31:37 it's called my-multiple-value-call 16:32:19 anyway, so make sure to pass the environment of your compiler-macro into macroexpand-1 16:32:34 right 16:32:36 this is especially important for symbol-macros since they're so often local 16:32:42 metawilm: what makes you think that's needed? 16:33:21 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:33:30 well, "needed" is a big word, it's an "easy" optimization to do 16:33:33 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 16:33:43 funcall is a more efficient than multiple-value-call 16:33:49 metawilm: right, so what makes you think you have to do that yourself? 16:33:58 the compilers don't do it for me, yet 16:34:20 so i'm creating a version that optimizes, then suggest it to implementors like allegro and sbcl 16:37:00 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:37:33 Well, I can assure you that SBCL and CMUCL can handle m-v-call very well; pretty much as well as the standard allows (especially for CMUCL, which still has block compilation). 16:37:49 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:41 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:39:12 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:19 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-219-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:40:58 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.188.153] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:41:17 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-219-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:17 -!- seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:43:48 pkhuong: there are cases in sbcl where m-v-c could be replaced by funcall, but isn't. Unless i'm mistaken. e.g. http://paste.lisp.org/display/86232 16:44:40 The transform is lazy and doesn't handle > 1 argument yet. A compiler macro isn't the right place to do it, though. 16:45:14 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-4ae470d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:45:37 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-71-146.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:45:48 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:46:01 at least i can use a compiler macro myself, with a different name of course 16:46:57 (allegro is much worse) 16:47:24 It's not hard to improve the situation; wait a day or two for SBCL ;) 16:47:38 thanks :) 16:48:46 It's probably a better idea to use your own macro if you know exactly how many values you expect from each form. 16:49:05 -!- nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 16:51:04 (m-v-call func (values x y)) would result in the same object code as funcall... 16:51:47 how come mvcall is the only special operator relating to multiple values? shouldn't #'values be a special operator too? 16:52:55 pkhuong: nice 16:53:30 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslhp184.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:54:53 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-151-196-43-142.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:37 #'values is an accessor, like #'symbol-value: it needs to know how to retrieve a value from an implementation-dependent place, but otherwise it's just a normal function (in terms of evaluating its arguments, in particular) 17:00:43 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-4ae470d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:00:57 but isn't the mechanism behind returning multiple values something that needs to be a special form (ie, something like MULTIPLE-VALUE-RETURN)? 17:01:26 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:02:36 that mechanism needs to be implemented somehow or other by the implementation, but not all implementation-dependent mechanisms need to involve special forms 17:04:54 multiple-value-call is a special function because it evaluates its arguments in a peculiar way (keeping all the values from each arg, not just the primary one like a normal function does) 17:05:35 special forms and macros can evaluate their arguments as they please, but ordinary functions have rules 17:06:02 HG` [n=HG@89.166.215.240] has joined #lisp 17:07:49 "A special form is a form with special syntax, special evaluation rules, or both..." 3.1.2.1.2.1 17:07:53 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:08:16 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 17:13:57 pve_ [n=user@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff2dc000-174.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:15:07 mikezor [n=mikael@c-4ae470d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:15:47 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:17:03 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:18:10 -!- HG` [n=HG@89.166.215.240] has quit [Client Quit] 17:18:38 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:19:06 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 17:20:52 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.97.74] has joined #lisp 17:21:07 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:41 boscop [n=boscop@f055243193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:26:26 ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:29:17 -!- est [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:10 est [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 17:31:04 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-4ae470d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:32:05 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:34:02 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1C655.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:19 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-191-200.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:37:44 voidpointer_ [i=bd6fd10d@gateway/web/freenode/x-zzmbbrlaxkhcxsre] has joined #lisp 17:38:50 -!- voidpointer_ is now known as voidpointer 17:39:55 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-7-48.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 17:40:15 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7E7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:41:00 milanj [n=milan@93.86.188.153] has joined #lisp 17:41:33 ausente [n=user5442@189-19-127-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:41:46 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7E7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:57 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 17:47:42 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.221.204] has joined #lisp 17:47:48 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7E7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:47:57 -!- benny [n=benny@87.122.30.38] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 17:49:28 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:08 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@dslb-094-222-057-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:51:23 tau [n=gauss@189.127.57.179] has joined #lisp 17:51:26 hello all 17:51:34 beach, how are you ? 17:51:46 -!- letexpx [n=letexpx@abo-223-141-68.bdx.modulonet.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:52 benny [n=benny@i577A1E26.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:15 ibor [n=ibor@134.76.226.110] has joined #lisp 17:52:46 -!- ibor [n=ibor@134.76.226.110] has left #lisp 17:53:47 HG` [n=HG@xdslhc196.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:54:11 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:55:08 -!- schmx [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:55:47 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-26.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:56:40 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslhc196.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:58:11 -!- asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:18 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:59:20 -!- boscop [n=boscop@f055243193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:59:59 piso: thanks for clearing that up. 18:01:22 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:05 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:47 tau: Fine. What about yourself? 18:11:54 beach, good day. 18:11:57 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:12:06 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 18:13:46 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-151-196-43-142.balt.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:14:58 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:20:43 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-84-207.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 18:22:01 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:23:32 milanj- [n=milan@93.87.180.113] has joined #lisp 18:23:33 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:26:36 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:26:48 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:26:50 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-219-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:28:21 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-219-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:24 ajhager_ [n=ajhager@98.223.251.77] has joined #lisp 18:31:19 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.188.153] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:31:47 -!- ajhager_ [n=ajhager@98.223.251.77] has left #lisp 18:35:01 boscop [n=boscop@g227136055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:14 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:35:49 would anyone happen to have a link handy to a basic cffi-grovel example? 18:36:01 I'm a bit confused about how exactly it's meant to be used 18:36:30 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:36:39 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 18:36:41 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.118.9] has joined #lisp 18:37:06 anyone know how to get slime working again on debian? 18:37:56 fisxoj: you have to specify your problem in more detail 18:38:48 package CLC not found 18:38:55 when I M-x slime in emacs 18:38:56 trebor_h` [n=email@dslb-084-058-227-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:22 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:40:34 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:40:46 -!- boscop is now known as M79 18:41:37 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.47.184] has joined #lisp 18:42:46 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:44:15 -!- M79 is now known as boscop 18:44:39 -!- vyazovoi [n=vyazovoi@horrible-unlim.vpn.mgn.ru] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:45:08 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:13 -!- Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp121-44-218-172.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:50:26 rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:27 -!- rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:51:55 -!- elias` [n=c@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:52:47 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@188.3.227.219] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:53:02 HG` [n=HG@xdslfc135.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:53:43 htk_ [n=htk___@188.3.224.172] has joined #lisp 18:54:07 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-71-146.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:47 -!- trebor_home [n=email@dslb-084-058-241-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:55:47 -!- logBot1372 [n=logBot@59.96.202.193] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:56:36 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-151-196-43-142.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:22 letexpx [n=letexpx@abo-223-141-68.bdx.modulonet.fr] has joined #lisp 18:57:41 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-jjdmhfelcaberjkx] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:57:50 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.116.36.79] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:57:58 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.115.201.227] has joined #lisp 18:58:16 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit ["HULK ANGRY! HULK DISCONNECT!"] 18:58:40 c|mell [n=cmell@p14220-ipngn1701marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:58:45 -!- letexpx [n=letexpx@abo-223-141-68.bdx.modulonet.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 18:59:03 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:59:12 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 18:59:16 yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@79-126-12-254.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 18:59:56 anyone using cl-opengl? it seems making a second glut:window instance gives an error "ERROR: Function called without first calling 'glutInit'" 19:01:26 metawilm_ [n=willem@g225101207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:45 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:02:59 this is after the first instance is already closed btw 19:03:20 -!- dys` is now known as dys 19:04:06 mathrick: osicat uses cffi-grovel for instance 19:05:40 luis: yeah, this is what I ended up looking at 19:05:43 DeusExPikachu: what's the platform and freeglut version? 19:06:12 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslfc135.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:06:13 luis: I sort of fail to see the utility of cffi-grovel when I need to specify all enums by hand anyway 19:06:17 and structs 19:06:21 sbcl, freeglut version, cl-opengl 0.1_p20090725 19:06:57 freeglu2.4.0-r1 19:07:32 mathrick: well, re enums you specify the enum names and it gets the values for you, which vary across platforms. 19:07:47 ok, and structs? 19:07:59 can I tell it just the name and have it grovel the fields? 19:08:01 mathrick: for structs, you only need to specify some of the names and it'll figure out the right types and offsets. 19:08:29 -!- tau [n=gauss@189.127.57.179] has left #lisp 19:08:52 _bogus_ [i=bogus@unaffiliated/bogus/x-542387] has joined #lisp 19:08:53 luis: ah, so like when I have private fields, I can skip them and it'll do the right thing anyway? 19:08:56 ah, actually you specify the type as well. 19:09:02 mathrick: right, exactly. 19:09:20 I'd be happier if it got the types, but eh 19:09:40 I guess I'll be going with a gobject-introspection bridge anyway 19:09:45 mathrick: for that, there's verrazano I guess. 19:09:57 now it's finally landed, it promises to be a much happier path 19:09:57 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has left #lisp 19:10:20 luis: ah, right, verazzano is "C++" in my mind 19:10:48 I wonder how good I can get the API from the introspection data alone 19:11:19 DeusExPikachu: do you have a test case? 19:11:57 Good evening everyone! 19:11:59 -!- weareyourfriends [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 19:12:10 weareyourfriends [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:12:13 luis, I'll try to make one right now thats simpler, but it should be pretty straightforward if you want to try yourself 19:12:16 -!- _bogus_ [i=bogus@unaffiliated/bogus/x-542387] has left #lisp 19:12:45 -!- weareyourfriends [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:42 DeusExPikachu: oh, indeed, I've reproduced it. 19:15:52 DeusExPikachu: a quick fix is to revert the last patch "Use the GLUT Framework on Darwin" 19:16:50 luis, hehe yeah except I need those new fixes, my idle function goes crazy if I don't. This bug is annoying cause I have to reset the runtime each time I want to run the newer code 19:17:41 -!- metawilm [n=willem@g225097102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:41 -!- metawilm_ is now known as metawilm 19:20:32 ski__ [n=slj@c-9011e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:20:32 -!- ski [n=slj@c-9011e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:22:58 [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.95.40.44] has joined #lisp 19:28:38 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:28:54 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:29:51 -!- vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:33:08 -!- voidpointer [i=bd6fd10d@gateway/web/freenode/x-zzmbbrlaxkhcxsre] has quit ["Page closed"] 19:33:51 DeusExPikachu: adding (init) to the beginning of the DISPLAY-WINDOW :around method in glut/interface.lisp seems to work. 19:34:36 I do some maths + - * / and sqrt so in a result I got => 113.0. Can I convert it to 113? Or how can I check if the result is integer? I'd like to get true if the result is 113.0000 and false if 113.0003... Could you help me? integerp doesnt work :S 19:34:45 DeusExPikachu: the first one, that is. The one that calls CREATE-WINDOW. 19:35:04 mrSpec: (= value (truncate value)) perhaps 19:35:41 yeah, thanks Xach 19:36:01 ski [n=slj@c-9011e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:36:21 -!- ski__ [n=slj@c-9011e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:38:53 ah no, it doesnt work :/ 19:39:17 for what value does it fail 19:39:18 ? 19:39:40 saikat_ [n=saikat@rrdhcp78-375.redrover.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 19:39:49 ehh sorry, it works :/ my mistake 19:39:53 :D 19:42:26 <_3b> you could also do (zerop (mod value 1)) 19:42:30 sykopomp` [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:44:44 -!- gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:45:03 ok thanks :) 19:45:16 <_3b> or maybe (zerop (nth-value 1 (truncate value))) 19:47:46 <_3b> actually, i guess (zerop (rem value)) compiles to about the same thing on sbcl, so don't need the longer version 19:49:42 -!- sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:49:50 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 19:51:14 -NickServ- Last seen : (about 0 weeks ago) -- how informative 19:52:10 minion: memo for xristos your email is bouncing, got another address? 19:52:11 i don't agree - memo for xristos my email isn't bouncing got another address 19:52:20 minion: memo for xristos: your email is bouncing, got another address? 19:52:21 Remembered. I'll tell xristos when he/she/it next speaks. 19:55:38 does anyone know if Dmitry Kalyanov (the cl-gtk2 guy) IRCs? 19:59:52 pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:20 saba_ [n=saba@c83-255-34-55.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:05:15 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:06:32 -!- keithr`` [n=user@ip68-13-249-183.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:06:59 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.47.184] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:07:20 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:24 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-7-48.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:10:32 blitz_ [n=blitz@dslb-094-222-057-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:57 lisptastic [n=user@adsl-234-145-13.bgk.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:56 -!- timor [n=martin@87.234.97.27] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:13:50 There's nobody on emacs channel that knows this, so I thought somebody here might. Anyone here know the difference between 'foo and (make-symbol "foo")? 20:14:33 ajhager [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:37 <_3b> (eq (make-symbol "foo") (make-symbol "foo")) => nil 20:15:13 luis, is there a way to get that to work without editing interface.lisp? 20:15:16 -!- ajhager [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:15:16 lisptastic: 'foo will intern it into the current package. At least in CL. 20:15:20 <_3b> also, in CL, package, name, and when symbol is created 20:15:41 DeusExPikachu: why? 20:15:54 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:07 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:16:18 luis, I figured there might be a way using a :before method or :around method 20:18:22 DeusExPikachu: right, but that's an :around method already. Anyway, time would be better spent trying to figure why that fix is necessary. :) 20:19:14 luis, ok. Makes sense 20:20:51 <_3b> luis: possibly *glut-initialized-p* should be reset at some point? 20:20:54 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.87.180.113] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:21:09 that sounds plausible 20:21:34 <_3b> (or that thread stuff does something odd, if this is on mac) 20:21:45 _3b, not on a mac 20:21:56 on second thought, if that were the problem, that (init) would a no-op. 20:22:07 *would be 20:22:10 <_3b> true 20:23:10 -!- klepparii [n=spa@85-220-67-230.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit ["leaving"] 20:25:19 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-22-81.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:25:53 luis, which display-window method? base-window or window? 20:26:23 DeusExPikachu: window, that's the one that calls create-window 20:26:48 luis, hmm, still get the same error 20:27:41 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:27:58 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:29:14 DeusExPikachu: ah, scratch that. 20:29:38 DeusExPikachu: clear your cl-opengl fasls and try again. 20:29:50 <_3b> what is your test case? 20:29:53 (without the (init)) 20:30:11 is there a make clean like command? 20:30:28 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229232247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 20:30:30 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :cl-glut :force t) should do the trick 20:30:59 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-99-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:28 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 20:32:06 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-71-146.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:32:22 _3b: I reproduced it with (cl-glut-examples:run-examples) 20:32:27 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@190.135.5.177] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:32:53 _3b: oh, and indeed that (init) was a no-op. 20:33:21 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-35-250-211.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 20:33:28 <_3b> oh yeah, guess i never got around to updating my tree with current patches, so i shouldn't expect it to break for me anyway :p 20:34:05 ok, I understand what's going on now. main-loop calls (init) before exiting, but since *glut-initialized-p* is always t that's a no-op. 20:34:13 _3b: you were right. 20:34:34 luis, weird, still getting it, I suppose I need to try the same test-case 20:34:48 DeusExPikachu: hold on a sec 20:35:19 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:35:44 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:37:52 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:38:04 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:39:04 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:10 -!- boscop [n=boscop@g227136055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:40:38 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:40:51 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:40:57 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:39 DeusExPikachu: this should fix things http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/patches/cl-glut-init-state.diff 20:42:49 luis, nice 20:43:08 but it probably breaks on Mac OSX 20:44:06 -!- sellout [n=greg@static062038142248.dsl.hol.gr] has quit [] 20:46:50 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-207.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:48:37 luis, yay works. 20:49:29 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-151-196-43-142.balt.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:51:00 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-151-196-43-142.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:43 -!- trebor_h` [n=email@dslb-084-058-227-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:54:30 luis: poke, http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/cffi-devel/2009-July/003199.html 20:54:39 did that fall through the cracks perhaps? 20:54:46 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:55:06 mathrick: it didn't, but I haven't had a chance to look at it yet. 20:55:22 ah 20:55:56 I'd appereciate if it got slurped upstream, as I'm writing a wrapper for a GObject library myself 20:56:46 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:56 hi, does anyone have a good example of how to communicate two-way via a serial tty in Lisp? ie. /dev/ttyACM0 21:00:51 mathrick: if you want to help out, enhancing the patch with the appropriate cffi-manual bits would be great. 21:01:02 or any clues about how I would go about doing that 21:01:08 luis: sure 21:01:29 mathrick: cool, thanks. 21:03:35 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 21:04:25 mathrick: while you're at it, tests without all the gdk stuff would be useful as well. 21:06:06 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:08:29 iwaki [n=hide@PPPa272.osaka.acca.dti.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:10:40 luis: ok, I'll try to rework that too 21:11:47 dabd [n=dabd@85.139.100.80] has joined #lisp 21:13:51 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.115.201.227] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:13:59 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.56.92] has joined #lisp 21:15:13 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:15:49 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 21:19:35 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:24:37 newerspeak [n=user@cpe-075-183-040-251.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:44 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:32:03 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:32:46 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:02 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 21:36:58 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:38:50 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:41:57 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@rrdhcp78-375.redrover.cornell.edu] has quit [] 21:43:03 saikat_ [n=saikat@rrdhcp78-375.redrover.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 21:43:08 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:43:27 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@rrdhcp78-375.redrover.cornell.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:43:56 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 21:44:49 steampunkey [i=4e8683d0@gateway/web/freenode/x-umsfpzubhsvbekqm] has joined #lisp 21:47:39 -!- _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E47977.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 21:49:32 -!- steampunkey [i=4e8683d0@gateway/web/freenode/x-umsfpzubhsvbekqm] has left #lisp 21:49:47 ajhager_ [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:09 -!- ajhager_ [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:05:10 elias` [n=c@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:07:39 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:10:25 uhh, what was the section in CLHS that explained the naming convention for predicates? 22:10:40 ie. when -p is hyphenated and when not 22:13:20 <_3b> minion: naming conventions 22:13:21 naming conventions: Some symbol naming conventions, distilled from CLHS, the Lisp FAQ, and comp.lang.lisp. http://www.cliki.net/naming%20conventions 22:14:14 ahh 22:14:19 thanks 22:16:26 that's a nice overview indeed 22:17:47 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 22:20:46 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:22:26 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:37 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 22:31:06 -!- tczy [n=tczy@78-60-36-72.static.zebra.lt] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:31:15 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:35:18 i'm trying to learn the slime debugger, what's the best way to start stepping through already running code? 22:42:37 ajhager_ [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:50 -!- ajhager_ [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:46:12 DeusExPikachu, hit s 22:47:26 lnostdal, the code has not entered the debugger yet, its just running, C-c? 22:49:38 is it possible to put a breakpoint, recompile, and when the code calls the code again, it'll break? 22:49:54 yeah, (break) 22:50:16 hrmpf, in ITERATE, what's the easiest way to detect I'm on the last iteration? 22:50:32 I need to do some collecting, which doesn't work in FINALLY 22:50:40 so I have to detect that earlier 22:50:41 -!- yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@79-126-12-254.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:50:49 oh, and I'm iterating over a string, not a list 22:51:12 so (for (elem . rest) on list) won't work 22:52:41 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 mathrick: count up and compare to length? 22:53:33 I believe there is no final-iteration thing you can use with collect 22:53:44 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-99-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:53:50 yeah, that's unfortunate 22:53:53 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-119-110.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:55:05 mathrick: you could collect into a variable and then use that in your finally clause, no? 22:56:39 luis: that's what I do 22:56:48 the problem is that I need to collect on the final iteration too 22:56:59 I'm writing to a STRING-OUTPUT-STREAM 22:57:27 but the problem is, by the time I hit FINALLY, I can no longer collect 22:57:38 so I'm losing the final collection 22:58:55 hmm, you lost me there. Got code? 23:00:03 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.114.110.177] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:14 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.114.138.72] has joined #lisp 23:02:50 -!- pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:03:54 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-84-207.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:03:56 luis: sure 23:07:06 mathrick pasted "final iteration" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86241 23:07:21 luis: ^ 23:08:38 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-47-39.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:09:18 luis: oh oops, sorry, wrong function in REPL. G-TYPE-NAME-TO-FUNCTION uses CAMEL-SPLIT internally, though 23:09:54 mathrick: which version of camel-split should I be looking at? 23:10:12 ah, nevermind. 23:10:28 the first is faulty, the latter is fixed 23:10:31 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:10:31 but ugly 23:12:22 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:11 mathrick: (finally (return (append list (list (get-output-stream-string str))))) is what I meant earlier. 23:15:09 luis: yeah, I guess it doesn't matter for a function operating on data this small 23:15:14 it's still ugly though 23:20:31 -!- Faed is now known as Fade 23:20:52 moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:02 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:24:26 is there an emacs binding that inserts an ascii style box (i guess insert skeleton or something) at the top of files in a lispy fashion? 23:28:54 what's an "ascii style box," and how does one insert one in a lispy fashion? 23:29:18 in bash scripts for example you will see something like #### 23:29:22 # coment 23:29:24 #### 23:30:05 in lisp ;;; is used to draw the comment box at the top. i'm thinking coders dont like making those manually every time 23:30:49 holycow: or you could just not draw stuff like that 23:30:58 you want a key to start a comment? M-; 23:31:24 heh or not use them, lol right. 23:31:34 not using comments sounds like bad practice. 23:31:54 inserting a "code header" kind of thing isn't hard in emacs, with say, author and license info etc. check the net for that. 23:31:59 holycow: but if you really want a lot of ;s in a row C-u 72 ; 23:32:26 code header, that is the term 23:32:41 googling, thanks 23:34:57 Is there a way to get the maximum possible value of a single-float? 23:35:05 got it, thx 23:36:13 luis annotated #86241 "with regexes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86241#1 23:36:51 Ralith: (apropos "single-float" :cl) 23:37:37 holycow: http://195.43.248.109/~hypno/holycow.txt, an old example of how to do it there. :) 23:38:21 oh sweet! thx :) 23:38:24 hypno: the indentation, it burns the eyes! 23:39:33 luis: heh. not my code. ;P 23:40:44 -!- lisptastic [n=user@adsl-234-145-13.bgk.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:42:28 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-101-194.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:44:25 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 23:44:45 milanj [n=milan@93.87.180.113] has joined #lisp 23:45:04 -!- [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.95.40.44] has left #lisp 23:48:43 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-119-110.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:49:38 -!- mgr [i=mgr@213.239.218.99] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:50:22 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:50:33 -!- saba_ [n=saba@c83-255-34-55.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["leaving"] 23:51:56 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:54:11 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:32 bytecolor [n=user@32.157.230.101] has joined #lisp 23:57:43 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 23:57:49 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.180.113] has quit ["Leaving"]