00:00:58 masm [n=masm@bl10-255-131.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:02:21 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:44 xristos: but it requires user registrations, at least, and doesn't allow overwriting of uploaded files (at least as far as I've read about it) 00:02:58 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03:08 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:03:21 the thing is that a checksum can not be used for authentication, only for integrity checking 00:03:22 so I think the biggest culprit as far as security goes is taken care of (random people uploading malicious files, or someone swapping existing versions) 00:03:58 someone gets access to their servers, replaces checksums+distribution files 00:04:18 nobody notices 00:04:23 -!- asksol [n=ask@122.242.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:04:27 -!- lukjadOO7 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Client Quit] 00:05:02 at least it's not a wiki :< 00:05:04 so practically, you get better security with asdf-install 00:05:59 if gpg wasn't a relative pita to set up :\ 00:06:06 (as long as people don't compromise on how it is supposed to be used) 00:06:25 i agree its not as user friendly 00:08:12 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Success] 00:08:48 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:10:20 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-85.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:48 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-85.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 00:11:02 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-85.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:20 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-85.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:47 -!- booo [n=user@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff2dc000-174.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:13:09 jao [n=jao@145.Red-83-54-168.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:39 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-69-232-200-65.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:13:49 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:14:38 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:14:42 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:17:10 -!- faure [n=moe@CPE001217e40caa-CM0018c0c09832.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:17:18 faure [n=moe@CPE001217e40caa-CM0018c0c09832.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:43 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:19:54 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:21:43 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-plus-ssl/download/cl+ssl.tar.gz is not signed because it's not wiki? or i'm wrong again and it's signed? 00:22:36 -!- jao [n=jao@145.Red-83-54-168.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:24:29 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-74.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:58 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:25:09 chpln [n=chpln@ppp121-45-39-210.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:17 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.219.245] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 00:26:37 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:27:10 jhalogen [n=jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:40 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A5E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:27:51 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:19 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-47.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:30:28 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-47.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:10 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-46-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:31:41 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:31:45 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229179089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 00:32:07 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:32:32 -!- masm [n=masm@bl10-255-131.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:34:38 masm [n=masm@bl10-255-131.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:36:22 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:07 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:37:21 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:42:22 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:42:33 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:44:47 -!- moe_c [n=moe@CPE001217e40caa-CM0018c0c09832.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:44:50 moe_c [n=moe@CPE001217e40caa-CM0018c0c09832.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:45:03 -!- ruediger_ [n=ruediger@188-23-65-230.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:46:48 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-48-188.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:47:45 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:47:56 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:53:01 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:53:16 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 00:53:29 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:53:35 -!- guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:53:42 guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 00:53:59 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:58 illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:30 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:59:33 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:04:33 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:04:44 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:07:59 -!- ausente [n=user7994@189-19-112-172.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit ["Eject"] 01:09:53 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Success] 01:10:04 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:11:39 i read three tutorials with similar simplest examples. one of them: http://myblog.rsynnott.com/2007/09/getting-started-with-hunchento.html When i do (testserv:start-server :port 4242) it says that testserv:start-server is undefined. Looks like it should export hunchentoot:start-server from testserv. but it doesn't 01:12:26 Have you tried :: to get into the non-exported functions? 01:14:33 TDT: same result 01:15:04 What version of hunchentoot are you using? 01:15:15 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:15:19 latest. just installed with asdf-install 01:15:21 -!- boscop [n=boscop@e181241025.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Gxis revido!"] 01:15:26 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:15:33 The tutorial was writen for an older version. 01:15:46 The design has changes significantly since then. 01:17:25 illuminati1113: good news and bad news ) thanx 01:18:42 No prob, the tut should work for versions <1.0.0 01:20:36 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:20:52 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:24:36 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.247.6.172] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:25:57 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:26:08 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:28:06 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:29:10 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483D668.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:31:13 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:31:27 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:32:46 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:28 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Success] 01:36:42 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:38:13 -!- spage [n=shawnpag@cpe-066-057-107-034.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:38:46 ok. hunchentoot works. how to make it listen only localhost? 01:39:40 it has a very nice manual 01:40:25 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-47.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:41:44 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:41:55 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:43:14 Xach: it's very nice, but i dont get it 01:43:57 what did you try? 01:44:27 spage [n=shawnpag@cpe-066-057-107-034.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:10 (hunchentoot:start (make-instance 'hunchentoot:acceptor :port 4242 :address "localhost")) 01:47:17 no need for the :address "localhost" bit 01:48:17 with or without i can access r100:4242 from another machine 01:50:49 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:51:01 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:52:11 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 01:52:14 hmm 01:52:36 -!- masm [n=masm@bl10-255-131.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:54:06 *nyef* would have thought :host rather than :address, but has never looked at hunchentoot, so has no real intuition for this sort of thing beyond his API-design sensibilities. 01:54:48 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-45.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:54:56 -!- saikat [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:55:01 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:55:38 nyef: no, no such argument 01:56:10 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:56:33 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:57:16 Mmm... Well, if the manual doesn't have any ideas, I'd start by finding the call to bind(2) and working my way back up to see if/how it can be used to specify a particular IP address. 01:58:14 first i'd like to know if hunchentoot can do this 01:58:56 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:59:08 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 01:59:11 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl6-167-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:59:20 Limit incoming connections to only localhost? Well, that's typically controlled by only binding the port on the loopback interface, which is done by specifying the IP address for said interface in the call to bind(2) on the host socket... 01:59:25 anyone is using clsql in mac os x? 01:59:43 I have some major bugs happening 02:00:40 an expression in clsql's execute-command throws an exception, that copied to mysql, runs 02:01:11 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl6-167-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 02:01:20 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl6-167-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 02:01:22 ... One of these days, I'd like to work out a tactful way to correct those people who think that slapping a question mark on the end of an article title or statement produces a grammatically valid english question. 02:01:44 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:01:58 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 02:02:02 The "how to X?" form is particularly egregious. 02:02:16 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:29 -!- Phaze [n=PhazeDK@0x5da32b16.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1104.soebnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:03:05 nyef: there's an article that's been linked here before about how to ask questions properly. 02:03:27 The sgtatham/PuTTY one? 02:03:41 perhaps, I'd recognize it if I saw it. 02:03:45 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:03:57 http://catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html 02:03:59 Mmm... But it's not the content that I'm so bothered about. It's the fact that it's NOT ENGLISH. 02:04:04 the esr one, then :) 02:04:48 nyef: unfortunately, not all of us are native english speakers :\ Those that are have no excuse, of course. 02:05:37 sykopomp: Hence the desire to have a tactful way to correct said non-native english speakers. Or the supposedly-native english speakers who really should know better. 02:06:25 seems like something better left to study-abroad programs, tbh 02:06:52 So I should just be tactless about it? 02:07:02 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:07:14 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 02:07:30 Xach: tryed again and (hunchentoot:start (make-instance 'hunchentoot:acceptor :port 8080 :address "localhost")) worked. dont know why. 02:07:32 nyef: it may be a simple matter of conservation of #\?'s I habitually forget to end my actual questions with a #\?. 02:07:46 I didn't know where they were going, though. 02:07:59 gigamonkey: No, because they actually use a #\?, but the surface grammar is either for an article title or a statement. 02:08:35 Right. Well mine are gramatically questions but I end them with a #\. So the missing #\? has to land on some non-question, it seems. 02:08:46 nyef: I would guess a better alternative is to try and descipher the meaning (it's usually not that cryptic), and query the user for clarification as necessary. 02:08:57 *sykopomp* slaps a big WFM on that one. 02:08:58 Thus it's an equivalence between the question and statement forms that holds in the speakers native language but not in english. 02:09:19 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:09:23 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Success] 02:09:27 npoektop: (hunchentoot:start (make-instance 'hunchentoot:acceptor :port 9999 :address "127.0.0.1")) 02:09:49 you could check the docs, the behavior is described there 02:09:59 sykopomp: It's almost never cryptic. It's just... grating, in a way. 02:10:00 xristos: yeah, it worked even with :addres "localhost" 02:10:52 nyef: I'm probably just very used to dealing with non-native speakers, so it never really bothers me, and I'm comfortable bringing up the mistake when appropriate. 02:11:29 npoektop: when in doubt, check the docs (docstrings for acceptor class too) 02:11:35 its only a M-. away 02:11:55 M-? what does it mean? 02:12:11 its emacs slang for jump to definition 02:12:17 npoektop: Meta-foo. Translation: Alt+period 02:12:32 It's like working with an AI with a speech interface where the transformational language model is missing a couple of key transforms. It's still intelligable, it's just not what a native speaker would come up with. 02:12:42 so if you're using slime, M-. (alt+period) over a symbol will jump you to its definition. 02:12:43 i should have used it's ;( 02:12:58 now nyef is going to be all over me 02:13:00 xristos: how dare yoou. 02:13:15 Bah. This keyboard... 02:14:16 xristos: Nah. Though... I was thinking that I might be able to write something for minion to watch for mis-expressed questions, and the same sort of detector could check for its/it's and there/they're/their... 02:14:39 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:15:15 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C9A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:15:17 nyef: sykobot already has an interpretation module, so we could skip the human translation and have it interpret anything a non-native speaker says into english (google translated, of course) 02:15:22 -!- spage [n=shawnpag@cpe-066-057-107-034.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:16:06 jhalogen_ [n=jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:15 No, no... Not what I was thinking. This wouldn't necessarily be an interpretation module so much as a syntax-checker. 02:16:39 yes, I was suggesting an extra step ;p 02:17:05 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl6-167-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:17:26 and jumping on peoples grammer is probably offtopic enough to be considered hostile :\ 02:18:02 Mmm... For a newcomer, perhaps, but note that we still have thwap for the its/it's thing. 02:18:19 It's a cultural thing, in a way. 02:18:37 it also happens naturally at random times even to really anal people, as far as I can tell. 02:19:11 nyef: You do realize, don't you, that some people sometimes misuse it's/its who fully, and completely understand the difference. They're called mistakes. 02:19:32 gigamonkey: Yes, and I do it too. 02:19:50 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:20:00 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 02:20:02 *sykopomp* mostly points out its/it's when he wants to troll <_< 02:20:12 Which would suggest using a random chance or other tunable parameter for the bot thwaping people... 02:20:20 Its time to troll! 02:21:34 gigamonkey: are we supposed to start wearing Guy Fawkes mask and start acting like 12 year olds now, too? 02:21:40 I'm game. 02:31:44 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:31:55 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:31:58 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 02:35:26 dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-208-241-91.lns10.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:42 ikki 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[n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 03:43:58 WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has joined #lisp 03:45:45 Hello, with slime, is there a way to reset my inferior lisp session without killing the *inferior-lisp* buffer? 03:47:42 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:47:49 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Success] 03:48:03 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 03:48:22 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:48:47 (or should I go to #emacs) 03:49:36 M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp perhaps? 03:50:15 -!- spage [n=shawnpag@cpe-066-057-107-034.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:50:56 rme: no way...I've been looking in the help for over an hour. 03:51:19 rme: Thank you, btw. 03:51:24 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:53:14 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:53:25 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 03:59:31 sykopomp: why act like 12yo? 03:59:46 p_l: it's a reference, nevermind. 03:59:57 *p_l* associates Anonymous&Guy Fawkes masks with rather positive qualities :D 04:01:11 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 04:04:04 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 04:05:34 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:05:45 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 04:08:33 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has left #lisp 04:09:47 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-56-101.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:10:54 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:11:08 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 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[n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:28:57 _thot20123 [n=thot@203-73-249-80.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has joined #lisp 04:31:49 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:32:04 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 04:33:33 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:34:53 -!- jhalogen [n=jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:39:36 How solid is sb-threads under Linux in sbcl 1.0.30? 04:40:34 Is there any particular reason I shouldn't turn on this feature when I build? 04:40:52 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:41:05 fusss [n=chatzill@115.128.35.60] has joined #lisp 04:41:05 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 04:42:33 caoliver: I'd say it's probably as solid as you can have on any platform with SBCL... 04:43:32 Ok. I just know it had some flakes in the past, and wasn't goggling anything up telling how things are now. 04:44:25 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:44:45 I'll add something to create the needed customize-target-features.lisp in my build script. 04:47:16 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:13 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:50:28 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 04:52:41 _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E473CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:56 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:59:14 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 04:59:21 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E470A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:00:37 spage [n=shawnpag@cpe-066-057-107-034.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:16 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:02:45 knobG2 [n=anon@65-23-218-38.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:31 good evening new to lisp here =) 05:03:40 HG` [n=wells@xdslfa076.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:04:25 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:04:49 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:08:17 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:51 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:10:15 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:11:43 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:12:12 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:23 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has joined #lisp 05:15:17 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:15:28 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:16:38 -!- spage [n=shawnpag@cpe-066-057-107-034.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:17:28 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:17:41 knobG2: good morning 05:18:10 spage [n=shawnpag@cpe-066-057-107-034.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:43 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:41 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:20:56 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:20:58 -!- spage [n=shawnpag@cpe-066-057-107-034.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:21:59 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 05:22:06 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:22:30 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:23:13 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:25:34 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-112-40.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:31:57 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:32:11 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:34:38 i'm running sbcl on freebsd. is it possible to turn on threads there? 05:37:17 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:37:28 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:41:34 npoektop: Manual says there is experimental support for it on fbsd, so I guess you can (: 05:42:45 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:42:56 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:46:59 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:48:05 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:48:15 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:49:43 -!- gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:53:24 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:53:34 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:54:50 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 05:57:27 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 05:58:40 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:58:54 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:03:57 -!- dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-208-241-91.lns10.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:04:53 c|mell [n=cmell@y192024.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 06:05:06 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:05:20 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:08:04 -!- salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [] 06:09:03 Good morning. 06:11:07 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.37] has joined #lisp 06:11:55 *c|mell* has just got tpd2 up to 11k requests/s on one core -- http://john.freml.in/teepeedee2-c10k 06:12:02 go lisp! 06:12:35 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:12:42 is there any way to create stack space limits on any implementation?... 06:12:46 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:13:56 (with continuable restarts?) 06:15:32 lispworks by default 06:15:58 the restarts provided are to increase stack size by 50% and 300% iirc 06:16:20 dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-208-148-19.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:41 hm 06:16:51 how about SBCL or CCL? 06:17:59 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:18:09 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:18:53 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:20:10 -!- jhalogen__ [n=jake@98.154.251.83] has quit [] 06:23:16 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:23:30 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:28:35 ^authent1c [n=authenti@85-127-40-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:33:03 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:33:48 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.37] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:35:46 mrSpec [n=NoOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 06:36:23 hello 06:41:27 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Success] 06:43:10 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-152-74.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:43:12 -!- _thot20123 [n=thot@203-73-249-80.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has left #lisp 06:45:18 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 06:48:22 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A019E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:56:25 crod [n=cmell@p5159-ipngn1701marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:56:54 ^authent2c [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:57:55 -!- ^authent1c [n=authenti@85-127-40-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:58:28 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@y192024.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:59:49 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 07:01:05 moren [n=taste@unaffiliated/romani] has joined #lisp 07:01:12 -!- daniel__ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:01:28 -!- moren [n=taste@unaffiliated/romani] has left #lisp 07:02:00 -!- ^authent2c [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 07:02:16 ^authent1c [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:07:28 -!- ^authent1c [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 07:07:48 ^authent3c [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:10:00 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:10:04 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:12:14 -!- pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-96-250-220-91.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:14:09 -!- ^authent3c [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Success] 07:14:33 ^authent4c [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:22:50 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:23:34 pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-96-250-220-91.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:06 -!- ^authent4c [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:24:19 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:29:31 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-74.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:29:51 *p_l* just found out that on Symbolics C stdio was definitely object-oriented xD 07:36:09 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:36:26 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:36:38 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:43:38 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:43:48 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:44:16 -!- Rusbesiktningen is now known as Rastbesiktningen 08:02:05 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 08:02:11 logBot8713 [n=logBot@59.92.165.206] has joined #lisp 08:11:23 -!- logBot8713 [n=logBot@59.92.165.206] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:11:39 logBot8119 [n=logBot@59.92.165.206] has joined #lisp 08:15:50 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 08:15:53 hello 08:18:01 -!- crod [n=cmell@p5159-ipngn1701marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:18:03 saikat [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:31 p_l: and FILE was a wrapper for file-stream ;0) 08:35:18 -!- saikat [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:36:54 p_l: I wish people would stop using that term as though it meant anything anymore :( 08:37:36 sugarmagnolia [n=deadhead@unaffiliated/ladyfantasy] has joined #lisp 08:38:36 objection oriented. 08:39:41 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:46:26 is there anything even comparable to Tk for the web? quick and dirty web app prototyping tool (any language) that's gadget/widget/control and UI element heavy? 08:47:06 Javascript? 08:47:34 there's cappucino, sproutcore, extjs 08:47:36 i was thinking more like a GUI/RAD tool that generates html and javascript 08:47:39 and what else? 08:48:11 booo [n=user@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff2dc000-174.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:48:12 *fusss* wishes the Appjet people kept and made it better 08:48:54 cl-dwim is something to look after 08:48:59 I am currently downloading Aptana, hoping it doesn't suck still (tried it months ago but for a different purpose) 08:50:17 aptana seems to be built on eclipse 08:51:02 yeah, methink CakePHP + qooxdoo just fits the bill as both quick and certainly dirty 08:51:05 brb 08:53:48 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:54 danlei [n=user@pD9E2C9A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:47 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-119.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:58:02 jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-45-185.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:58:59 wasn't there a browser plugin for Tcl/Tk? :-P 08:59:21 Is it a bad idea to write a game (such as a 2D platformer) in Lisp? 08:59:40 Given its distribution model? 08:59:55 fucking aye! back to Tcl/Tk, this is so 1998 09:00:25 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:00:49 jtza: Which distribution model? 09:00:54 I didn't know Lisp had a particular distribution model. 09:01:16 Well... I mean things come in images rather than "executables" 09:01:18 I presume he is talking about the 6 million fasls of death. 09:01:36 jtza: Not necessarily. ECL distributes things as executables and shared libraries. 09:02:00 Ok, that's awesome :) 09:02:03 jtza: It ultimately depends on the implementation. 09:02:21 yes 09:02:26 Well, ECL also sucks in various ways, so check it out. 09:02:37 On the other hand, it does support direct linkage to C, which might be useful ... 09:02:44 heh, thanks though. 09:03:28 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:03:46 I'll have a good look at it... 09:06:14 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 09:07:10 jtza8: There is no problem with writing games in lisp. Just distribute them as source and do some nice asdf set-upping. and people just go (require 'game) and all is well. 09:08:01 jtza8: Also you might want to visit #lispgames (: 09:09:35 jtza8: and if you're obsessed with executables you can save-lisp-and-die and make a runnable image that autostarts the game. 09:10:06 benny [n=benny@i577A06C0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:10:49 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-77-219.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:11:30 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-47.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:12:19 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229129180.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:12:59 kami-` [n=user@84.47.226.210] has joined #lisp 09:20:05 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:26:28 Geralt [n=Geralt@p54A2BE34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:37 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:27:38 -!- |Trickster| [i=Trickste@77.232.135.67] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:28:30 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:30:27 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 09:30:30 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 09:32:43 |Trickster| [i=Trickste@77.232.135.67] has joined #lisp 09:37:00 -!- knobG2 [n=anon@65-23-218-38.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:38:26 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 09:40:38 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@115.128.35.60] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:43:47 -!- xenosoz1 [n=xenosoz@147.46.241.19] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:43:47 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:44:34 xenosoz1 [n=xenosoz@147.46.241.19] has joined #lisp 09:44:56 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-77-219.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:59:55 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16908A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:10:51 loxs [n=loxs@82.119.85.174] has joined #lisp 10:11:15 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:57 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:15:43 -!- pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-96-250-220-91.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 10:17:41 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:18:19 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 10:18:47 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest48427 10:21:53 -!- chpln [n=chpln@ppp121-45-39-210.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [] 10:24:09 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 10:25:13 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:25:59 -!- Guest48427 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 10:27:37 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:28:50 Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-132-140.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:36 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:32:12 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-119.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:35:36 -!- logBot8119 [n=logBot@59.92.165.206] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:36:38 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:39:32 schme: Thanks, I'll visit #lispgames. I'm just thinking that if I'd like to try and make a living off indie game making, best way to distribute a commercial game to window$ users is to use an executable? 10:40:01 (not that all my games will be commercial :) 10:40:09 asksol [n=ask@084202073154.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 10:40:37 jtza8: what did the last game you downloaded look like? 10:41:29 In what way do you mean, there are loads of types, but on windows it seems it would have been an executable ): 10:41:30 *Xach* got a DMG 10:41:49 jtza8: i'm not asking you about what's possible, but what you personally actually got 10:42:20 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-132-2-49.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:42:44 jtza8: I also think that the best way to make a living off of indie gaming is to target windows, and yes to deliver executables. And I do think that cl-opengl and lispbuilder-sdl both work fine on windows, and executable images made with clisp tend to not be too big. So it should be doable. 10:43:24 jtza8: or webgames is an option, of course. 10:45:04 Yep, I'm going to try that route to start off with. I'm already building a game... (futher conversation moved to #lispgames) 10:45:16 jtza8: dto found some depressing article about how hard it was to make a living as a indie game dev 10:45:57 tsuru` [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:25 -!- tsuru` [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 10:47:55 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:48:17 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 10:51:30 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:23 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:00:34 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:00:41 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:06:27 fusss [n=chatzill@115.128.30.51] has joined #lisp 11:06:30 Ogedei [n=user@e178225167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:11:15 fusss_ [n=chatzill@115.128.31.114] has joined #lisp 11:16:56 hmm 11:19:50 -!- fusss_ [n=chatzill@115.128.31.114] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.13/2009073022]"] 11:20:33 My tab completion seems to have died in buffers that are in SLIME minor mode. 11:21:01 what do you mean? 11:21:06 hitting tab does nothing. 11:21:10 and what's slime minor mode? 11:21:15 Running slime-complete-symbol completes the symbol, though. 11:21:32 hitting tab only works in the repl 11:21:33 slime minor mode is a mode that .lisp files get opened in. 11:21:33 Adlai: it normally is bound to C-TAB, i think. tab indents, for me. 11:21:53 hm, I guess my brain's got foggy, you're right. heh. 11:22:11 *Adlai* spent about 15 minutes really confused by this. 11:23:06 *stassats* can't remember which keys are for completion, but i can use them 11:23:27 you are one with the emacs 11:23:45 there are several, C-c M-i and C-c C-i, i don't really know which one i use 11:24:43 from C-h f: "It is bound to C-c TAB, M-TAB, ." 11:24:58 heh, funny that the menubar binding shows up even when my menubar is off. 11:25:10 it should be possible to compile emacs without the menubar :) 11:26:15 Adlai: M-x menu-bar-open 11:26:21 or F10 11:27:36 I use slime-indent-and-complete-symbol as my completion function, this indents code when at the start of a line, but completes if after a symbol 11:28:04 tcr: do you just bind that to TAB then? 11:28:12 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 11:28:33 stassats: that's neat, I can hunt for new commands that way. Thanks. 11:28:39 Adlai: No you can set slime-complete-symbol-function to it 11:29:11 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcm230.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:30:36 tcr: but slime-complete-symbol-function does call slime-complete-symbol, which calls slime-complete-symbol-function 11:30:49 first is slime-indent-and-complete-symbol 11:31:31 *Adlai* 's head spins, and he settles for the "warm fuzzy feeling" of slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol 11:33:57 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 11:34:13 Adlai: Uh yeah, stassat is right, you got to bind to to tab. I have (define-key slime-mode-map [tab] 'slime-indent-and-complete-symbol) in my .emacs 11:34:40 and bind RET to reindent-then-newline-and-indent 11:34:58 tcr: does that function do fuzzy completion? 11:35:04 weirdo: if you like it, i don't 11:35:13 Adlai: Yes, if you set slime-complete-symbol-function to it 11:35:24 fuzzy gives false positives too much 11:35:26 go for c-p-s 11:35:27 :) 11:35:29 Adlai: slime-indent-and-complete-symbol works on top of that 11:35:31 and it's slow too 11:35:41 *stassats* does C-j if he wants reindent-then-newline-and-indent 11:36:48 without reindenting, though 11:36:53 -!- carrl [n=carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:37:05 carrl [n=carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 11:37:36 There's still the bug that fuzzy-completing sb::car will present many choices, even though it should settle for the home-package of car. I thought I fixed that, but apprantly I didn't, or not properly 11:38:05 -!- zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:39:17 and fuzzy still lacks contextual completion 11:39:23 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@115.128.30.51] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:39:49 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:40:05 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 11:40:11 Don't try to add it yet, I rewrote swank-arglists 11:40:57 ok, i'm already trying to start adding it for two months 11:41:02 hm, thanks, editing is that much more painless now. 11:41:58 btw, I noticed something the other day -- both SBCL and CCL provide the location of the comma when you have a comma/backquote error, but SLIME only highlights accordingly for SBCL 11:42:36 Adlai: i made ccl do that too, but it was messy and i didn't commit it yet 11:42:54 ah, ok. 11:46:13 tcr, it would be nice having stuff like f-b:bar-baz 11:46:16 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:46:28 i mean, completing on incomplete package when cursor positioned on the end of a symbol 11:47:26 fuzzy does that 11:48:56 Yeah that was one of my first slime hacks :-) 11:49:25 but fuzzy is weird 11:49:48 type in m-v-b for instance 11:49:54 weirdo: isn't that what you need? 11:50:19 it'll give you over 9000 choices instead of multiple-value-bind 11:50:22 -!- Ogedei [n=user@e178225167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:50:26 weirdo: i get multiple-value-bind 11:50:47 hmm. so it got better since i last used it in attila's branch a few months ago 11:50:49 plus two other choices 11:50:50 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:51:11 well c-p-s only gives m-v-b 11:51:30 (m-v-b TAB SPACE gives me multiple-value-bind too 11:52:50 *Adlai* gets multiple-value-bind plus 3 other choices, with the right one at the top. 11:54:37 well fuzzy isn't very deterministic 11:54:47 ha-ha 11:55:00 not literally, but in the sense "you never know what you're gonna get" 11:55:35 it's called "fuzzy" 11:56:18 sykopomp's lambda-macro is weird 11:56:27 [x y -> (list x y)] 11:56:34 (lambda (x y) (list x y)) 11:56:43 weirdo: he and I discussed it in depth and came up with a better alternative. 11:56:45 negative code compression? 11:57:07 Adlai, what's the alternative? 11:57:32 ( (x y) (list x y)) 11:57:35 [x y | (list x y)], where #\|'s traditional readmacro gets overridden during the arglist section of *such a lambda 11:57:45 that's ugly! 11:57:57 stassats: heh, I keep meaning to set up XCompose and have real lambdas. 11:58:02 looks more like operation on sets 11:58:11 how about [arg* one-expr]? 11:58:13 well, it's less ugly than [x y -> ...] 11:58:23 _phil3921 [n=thot@203-73-249-80.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has joined #lisp 11:58:32 well? 11:58:34 M-x set-input-method RET greek RET l C-\ 11:58:49 weirdo: sykopomp wanted it to have more than one form in the body, without having to use progn 11:58:51 well there's a font face that shows lambda as a greek lambda 11:58:55 i mean, font lock 11:59:26    ! 11:59:31 i once had  x  y (+ x y) 11:59:38 but mostly for kicks and to alienate people 11:59:55 stassats: I miss a regexp based profiling command in Slime. Perhaps you will find time prior to me. 12:01:29 i'll try 12:01:42 Regexp is too strong, it seems we do not actually use nregex.lisp anymore, prefix-based suffices 12:02:25 how would be called that command? 12:02:37 prefix-based, probably just based on SEARCH 12:02:55 I always reach the menubar for profiling 12:03:26 SLIME -> Profiling -> Profile by Pattern 12:04:05 and the underlying function? my imagination isn't working as always 12:04:17 slime-profile-by-pattern? 12:04:26 or by-prefix 12:04:52 Prefix is too strict, just use SEARCH 12:04:56 so call it by substring 12:05:28 slime-profile-symbols 12:05:48 that's too general 12:07:07 slime-profile-symbols-by-matching 12:07:45 make sure it asks for the package name 12:09:34 -!- Rastbesiktningen is now known as Commienazi 12:09:56 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-135-193.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:13:20 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:58 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-119.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:14:19 -!- attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-132-2-49.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit ["..."] 12:14:20 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcm230.osnanet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 12:19:36 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:23:56 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:28:28 _mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:28:37 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:30:14 -!- _phil3921 [n=thot@203-73-249-80.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35:47 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-119.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:36:07 salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:19 Stil [n=sowhat@hbrn-5f71776c.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 12:37:22 Hello 12:37:51 One question: does lisp have any use nowadays? I mean in some projcets nowadays 12:38:08 bcuz, the readability of lisp code isn't that great :( 12:38:09 amaron [n=amaron@cable-94-189-243-158.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:38:24 How dare you. 12:38:25 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:38:41 http://nopaste.com/p/am33V1MOW even this simple calculation looks cryptic 12:39:01 Stil: maybe lisp is not for you 12:39:08 maybe =/ 12:39:15 Stil: Intuition is a learned skill. 12:39:17 how do you manage to read calculation? 12:39:19 Stil: I encourage you to find other alternatives if you're unwilling to bend 12:39:33 do you all count the ( and ) ? 12:39:42 if you find it hard to read, then I suggest that you use indentation. 12:39:55 Stil: it'd be a lot easier to read if you put line breaks before the second (* and indented 12:40:02 (sqrt (+ (expt (- qx px) 2) (expt (- qy py) 2))) is better 12:40:04 infix and rpn each has its own advantages 12:40:35 (when properly indented) 12:40:35 slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-178-182.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 12:40:38 Stil: How much of typical software consists of arithmetic expressions? 12:40:47 http://nopaste.com/p/a8hWb8zirb 12:40:55 tcr, enough =/ 12:41:06 k with expt it loosk a way easier 12:41:12 Zhivago, thx 12:41:23 Stil: Please learn how to spell "thanks". 12:41:35 is nopaste the recommended paste website for this channel? 12:41:42 thx is easier to read than lisp code =/ 12:41:48 -!- Stil [n=sowhat@hbrn-5f71776c.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 12:41:48 Stil: Computers are misnamed, they mostly do not compute, but merely shuffle bits. 12:41:58 Zhivago: http://lolcode.com/ 12:42:02 Computers read and write words. :) 12:42:32 Adlai pasted "A bit of indentation goes a long way" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/85085 12:42:56 ah, the "Trol" is gone already. Oh well. 12:43:58 Adlai: and you got your indentation wrong 12:44:33 hehe, true... 12:45:01 well, he did as well. I just preserved his mistake 12:45:39 scottmaccal [n=scott@pool-71-173-70-156.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:43 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 12:45:49 it's good to blame someone else 12:46:58 _phil3921 [n=thot@203-73-249-80.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has joined #lisp 12:47:32 stassats: what's wrong with it ? 12:47:55 lhz: "(sqrt" is a few spaces too far right. 12:48:09 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-46-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:48:09 (along with the rest of the function definition) 12:49:00 did any of you compared productivity in lisp with haskell? 12:49:05 nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-222-164-136.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:16 Hello all. 12:49:31 amaron: www.haskell.org/papers/NSWC/jfp.ps 12:49:52 some lisp won, by they didn't admit it 12:50:19 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 12:50:30 -!- sellout [n=greg@64.206.165.226] has quit [] 12:50:32 What's this? 12:50:51 amaron asked about productivity comparison 12:50:56 :) 12:51:33 Ah. 12:51:34 haskell is great language, i love it, but some concepts are still to heavy for me 12:52:15 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcm230.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:52:49 -!- virl [n=virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:52:51 -!- dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-208-148-19.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:55:05 Well, if they only had to marginalize one data point to obtain the conclusion they wanted then it was a good experiment. 12:56:05 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-178-182.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:56:34 dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-208-181-91.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:07 even lisp code had more lines of code than haskell, it's completed much faster than anything else 12:59:01 less lines isn't always good 12:59:04 Actually, there's the given explanation that much of the time difference between the lisp and haskell versions was taken up by writing the documentation for the haskell version. 12:59:20 look at perl, for example 12:59:52 nyef: and lisp version is clear and self-documenting 13:00:07 Hah! 13:00:35 it would be interesting to see the actual versions 13:00:52 and haskell has evolved somewhat over the years 13:01:23 Mmm... And possibly their performance curves, though that expressly wasn't a requirements area. 13:03:22 *gigamonkey* read Real World Haskell and was left wanting to write a book about Haskell 13:03:45 practical haskell? 13:03:57 "Practical Vulgar Haskell" 13:04:18 yeah, PH isn't a good abbreviation 13:05:14 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16908A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:05:50 -!- kami-` [n=user@84.47.226.210] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:06:14 Actually my working title is "Just Haskell" 13:06:39 My theory is while Real World Haskell tried to show that you can really use Haskell, that's not the question people have. 13:06:57 "Why bother?" 13:07:03 Just the Haskell, Ma'am 13:07:12 Sort of: for me, the question is, is the weirdness of this language really worth overcoming? 13:07:33 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:07:56 I don't care whether I can open a connection to a RDBMS with it, if I'm not convinced that it's lingustic approach is really usable. 13:08:15 minion: Thwap for gigamonkey? 13:08:16 gigamonkey: direct your attention towards Thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 13:08:26 -!- loxs [n=loxs@82.119.85.174] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:08:29 nyef: bite me. ;-) 13:08:33 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 13:08:39 (Couldn't resist, especially after last night.) :-P 13:11:45 I think in a way, Haskell actually is the language many people think Lisp is--the weird, functional language, created to explore certain academic ideas about programming. 13:12:05 heh 13:12:15 You mean, the language lisp was, fifty years ago? 13:12:25 nyef: sure. 13:12:50 Basically, it is. It's the 50-years evolution of Lisp along those lines. 13:14:40 -!- dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-208-181-91.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:14:53 are there thwaps for saying "their" instead of "they're", too? 13:15:21 Not evolution of Lisp, though. It's more like this: 13:15:22 -----compsci theory------------- 13:15:22 \--Lisp---/---- \ ------------- 13:15:22 \----Haskell-- 13:15:46 haskell doesn't have macros!!!111111 13:15:50 :-) 13:17:47 weirdo: So far as I am aware, there are no their/they're thwaps. 13:18:40 It kind of says something about the language models used in thought-to-text conversion, though... 13:19:29 mathrick [n=mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 13:19:31 Whether they go through speech, you mean? 13:20:13 No, more the transforms used. 13:20:25 weirdo: There was some newish functional language with the type inference etc. that did have macros. seemed nice. 13:21:43 hello worlds , im very beginner with lisp, i'm very impresionated with it , i'd like use it for develop web applications, i installed sbcl is this ok for a production web site or must i think in buy allegro or lispworks?, i found various web servers , some recomendation, thanks. 13:22:09 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:22:11 salva: Unless you're on MS windows then you'll do fine with sbcl :) 13:22:14 salva: SBCL is great, it's one of the highly regarded open-source CL implementations. 13:22:14 salva: sbcl works pretty well for my linux-based website 13:22:31 salva: "production" means different things to different people, though. what do you mean by it? 13:22:34 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:22:35 schme: im in osx and linux 13:22:39 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:40 there is also Liskell 13:22:47 salva: Then you're safe from coughing up the money :) 13:22:58 (for haskell with macros) 13:23:14 -!- _mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:23:24 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:25 Xach: i little busines bought a web site, i develop and maintaing it 13:23:32 running on the time 13:24:27 hey anyone knows which file to LOAD to load maxima into my image? 13:24:34 this is maxima 5.19.0 13:24:42 well, sbcl has commercial support if you willing to spend some money for the sake of humankind 13:24:51 a think that i cant understand well is, why is not lisp the dominant languaje? 13:24:54 weirdo: read INSTALL.lisp 13:25:02 salva: my site has been running since june 9, when i rebooted my computer for an unrelated reason 13:25:09 weirdo: or similarly named file 13:25:10 salva: that is, my sbcl instance 13:25:51 Xach: yes, the commercial support and open source the perfect combination to me 13:25:59 thanks 13:26:12 go ahead and create some graphics at http://wigflip.com/ -- powered by lisp! 13:26:21 salva: http://sb-studio.net/ for example 13:26:43 salva: There are many myths about Lisp that make people not want to use it -- for example, that it's incredibly slow, or only good for Artificial Intelligence. 13:28:18 salva: there is also Clozure Common Lisp, which is also open-source and has commercial support 13:28:29 Xach: hey this is great fun :) 13:29:01 Xach: that was the first CL poweref tool I ever encountered, about 2 years ago when I first got a bit interested in Lisp. 13:29:06 demmel [n=demmel@dslb-094-216-064-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:06 *powered 13:29:53 stassats, thank you 13:30:01 Adlai: the myths well, but a programer like me from the oo is a lot of limited compared with a lisp coder, is very evident 13:30:57 there's a problem with slime 13:31:03 when tab-completing on filenames inside a string 13:31:04 salva: your English is worse than mine 13:31:12 and the string is already terminated by a right " 13:31:17 another " gets added 13:31:31 sorry :( i'm trying learn it 13:32:02 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:33:03 weirdo: can't reproduce 13:33:05 salva: OO is a big part of lisp :) 13:33:14 yes 13:33:19 * big part of -Common- Lisp 13:33:40 stassats, type (load ""), go between "", type /dev/ura 13:34:18 still can't 13:34:18 gigamonkey: have you read "Going functional on exotic trades" http://www.lexifi.com/downloads/frankau.pdf ? 13:35:03 stassats, maxima is like, "can't find maxima.mk in its right place" 13:35:05 auto programing is the great part to me 13:35:40 weirdo: a space is added, but not " 13:36:26 some day i'll can define me in a macro 13:36:42 stassats, wow sb-studio, a company page that doesn't use JS or graphics 13:36:59 Adlai: It's obvious that CL is what is implied when saying lisp in #lisp ;) 13:37:11 weirdo: it's nikodemus's page 13:37:14 but sb-studio misspells Kiczales' name 13:37:17 schme: yeah, I guess so. 13:37:21 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-108-120.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:37:22 Idebesiktningen [i=HydraIRC@95.209.37.136.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 13:37:48 minion, memo for nikodemus: spell Kiczales' name properly on http://sb-studio.net/pub/index.html 13:37:49 Remembered. I'll tell nikodemus when he/she/it next speaks. 13:42:33 weirdo: slime employs emacs for completing filenames 13:42:41 and it works ok in emacs 23 13:42:45 ha! 13:42:50 i really hafta upgrade 13:43:57 i once sent a fix to erc mailing list and they didn't even mention my name in commit log :( 13:44:29 it was too trivial? 13:45:04 it was trivial, but for instance freebsd mentions everyone who helps in a bug fix 13:45:14 even if they just reported it happens 13:46:00 weirdo: report a bug: missing contributor.txt documentation file that would list everybody reporting a bug or sending in a patch. 13:46:02 "sic transit gloria mundi" 13:46:25 stassats: this is a meta-programming channel! :-) 13:46:53 or buddhist "all things and events are impermanent", i guess 13:48:00 or "anitya" 13:48:05 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-45-185.iburst.co.za] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:49:44 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-154-1-12-92.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:50:12 pbj: I have not. 13:51:16 -!- _phil3921 [n=thot@203-73-249-80.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has left #lisp 13:53:17 pbj: looks interesting. 13:54:12 -!- Commienazi [i=HydraIRC@79.138.198.1.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:54:14 -!- Idebesiktningen is now known as Commienazi 13:55:21 ruediger [n=ruediger@188-23-186-168.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:55:29 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-239-204.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:14 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:59:35 sepult`` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-28-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:52 pdo [n=pdo@dyn-62-56-58-0.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:02:39 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:03:07 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:27 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-154-1-12-92.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:07:46 hmm emacs 23 is good 14:07:49 it starts up faster 14:10:25 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c147-47.icpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:10:47 weirdo [n=sthalik@c147-47.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:13:10 -!- demmel [n=demmel@dslb-094-216-064-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 14:15:30 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslfa076.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:16:35 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:17:22 -!- sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-120-45.netcologne.de] has quit [No route to host] 14:18:31 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:20:17 weirdo2 [n=sthalik@c147-47.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:20:20 -!- weirdo2 [n=sthalik@c147-47.icpnet.pl] has left #lisp 14:30:58 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@220.253-230-77.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:41:47 ikki [n=ikki@189.247.6.172] has joined #lisp 14:47:42 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16908A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:53:02 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-199.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:54:59 koning_r1bot [n=aap@88.159.107.70] has joined #lisp 14:56:28 frozsyn [n=FrozSyn@blm93-2-82-229-63-104.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:48 weirdo: 2G of memory also help Emacs :-D 14:59:26 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:02:16 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:02:45 -!- pdo [n=pdo@dyn-62-56-58-0.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [] 15:02:59 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:00 i has 3 gb 15:03:50 weirdo: I remember how big speedup I got in Emacs when I switched 1G on 64bit bus -> 2G 128bit bus. :-) 15:04:38 hmm i dunno how wide this bus is 15:04:45 but it's a quad-coar amd64 intel 15:04:47 a couple of inches maybe 15:05:21 emacs doesn't care about your cores 15:05:31 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-135-193.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:05:42 Good afternoon. 15:05:56 weirdo: PC *DIMMs are 64bit wide, so a so-called "dual-channel" usually means 128bit bus (multi-channel is probably only on newest Opterons and maybe i7) 15:06:21 gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:38 yeah, get i7 for your emacs 15:06:59 lol 15:07:24 *p_l* imagines ads in magazines, "i7 makes Emacs fly!" ;P 15:07:38 *stassats* was quite happy with emacs-22 on 256mb 15:07:56 *schme* tried it on 32MB. No fun (: 15:08:08 yet I remember it working back in 95! 15:08:11 I can't remember emacs being too slow for me ever since I stopped misusing it as MUA 15:08:26 gnus is the killer :) 15:08:32 i keep gnus in a different emacs instance 15:08:38 *p_l* tried emacs on 4MW, it worked, but it was a rather old version... 15:08:56 otherwise why do i need this dualcore processor 15:09:12 ahahha :) 15:09:22 anyone can tell me what to do to load maxima in my image once i have it built? 15:09:57 doesn't INSTALL say it? i don't have it handy 15:10:03 *schme* tries to remember maxima. 15:10:10 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:10:15 I think I just ran it on its own, so to speak. 15:10:52 -!- koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.107.70] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11:07 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-62.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:55 weirdo: Wyhy do you wish to load it into another image? 15:12:19 stassats, i tried INSTALL way but it complained it can't find system maxima 15:12:27 i mean maxima.asdf or maxima.mk or whatever 15:12:41 oh well 15:12:45 *stassats* goes fetching maxima 15:13:14 schme, because i don't remember how to start an image with a different path to the lisp executable 15:13:22 i'm an emacs noob, i even use Custom 15:13:40 Hmmm.. 15:13:41 -!- Eleanore [n=a@c-b82de555.035-34-73746f10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:14:00 All I ever did with emacs and maxima was 1) build maxima with the clisp, 2) install the maxima-mode and run that. 15:14:17 turns out there is a to_lisp thing in maxima for switching to lisp mode. ehehe 15:14:23 *stassats* always followed instructions in INSTALL.lisp and it was fine 15:15:39 weirdo: Isn't there some maxima binary you built? 15:16:05 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 15:16:38 maxima's repository is full pdfs 15:16:54 and downloading them is damn slow 15:20:24 i have a core 15:21:46 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:21:53 so, what's the problem? 15:23:32 Samy [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:36 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:05 Symbol "COMPLETIONS" not found in the SWANK package. 15:25:24 invalid protocol message 15:25:32 guess running maxima ain't as easy as i thought 15:25:36 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:25:44 Are you trying to run maxima using slime there or what? 15:26:21 maxima is real easy to run. Just forget all about swank and slime. 15:27:00 i started up maxima core, loaded up swank and now it gives me all sorts of trouble 15:27:09 i mean, why can't it find the COMPLETIONS symbol? 15:27:12 schme: the goal is to use maxima as a library 15:27:23 oh. 15:27:27 -!- |Trickster| [i=Trickste@77.232.135.67] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:27:34 because it has useful numerics stuff. 15:27:44 well that explains a lot :D 15:27:54 |Trickster| [i=Trickste@77.232.135.67] has joined #lisp 15:28:56 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B5C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:25 maybe it is easier to do it backwards. load up maxima and load all the other shit into that (: 15:29:39 how do you start swank in an image again? i thought (require 'swank); (swank:create-server) was enough 15:30:42 I use (swank:create-server :port nil) fwiw 15:31:07 could you try it with recent slime and use tab completion? 15:31:58 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:33:40 Symbol "ARGLIST-FOR-ECHO-AREA" not found in the SWANK package. 15:33:42 wow, this is scary 15:34:03 s0ber [i=pie@118-160-162-250.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 weirdo: you didn't load contribs 15:34:10 thx 15:34:15 i mean, *thank you* 15:34:24 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-62.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:34:34 how do i load contribs? :) 15:34:42 are you loading through asdf? 15:34:46 yes 15:35:24 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:36:18 well, you can call (swank::setup) 15:36:22 ok 15:36:45 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:46 did you mean slime-setup? 15:37:00 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl6-65-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:37:00 swank-loader::setup 15:37:44 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:52 still no cookie 15:39:16 then just use swank-loader.lisp 15:39:37 and call (swank-loader:init) after loading it 15:42:24 i've put LOAD swank-loader.lisp and swank-loader:init into .sbclrc but it doesn't work 15:42:44 well, sure it doesn't 15:43:09 (funcall (read-from-string "swank-loader:init")) in that case 15:43:44 or wait till i figure out why .asd is what it is now 15:43:55 i mean the form completes, but contribs don't load 15:44:29 ok, screw my "sure", since it doesn't compile .sbclrc 15:45:00 weirdo: how do you know that? 15:45:09 stassats, i type in "42" and it has no overlay 15:45:47 does your slime-setup load slime-presentations? 15:46:42 yes. do i need to call slime-start in a mode-hook or is it enough if i call it in an eval-after-load? 15:47:20 and all of this because of maxima :| 15:47:47 why do you need swank for maxima? 15:48:37 why not just use imaxima? 15:48:52 because i want to run its incomplete gamma function since i don't know math and can't just write it basing on wikipedia 15:49:01 does imaxima have a repl? 15:49:16 weirdo: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MaximaMode 15:50:02 looks nice, but it's not a lisp repl :( 15:50:11 fsck it, i'll figure out what an incomplete gamma does 15:50:20 looks very nice 15:50:20 to_lisp(); ? 15:50:26 weirdo: maxima is not lisp ;) but you can in maxima run to_lisp(); or some such.. don't quite remember. 15:50:32 weirdo: and it kicks you over to a normal lisp repl. 15:50:44 well what stassats said :D 15:50:48 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:51:53 thank you 15:52:27 next question would be: "how to call incomplete gamma function from lisp" 15:54:03 *somewhere* in the lacking-overview-information maxima manual is doc of how maxima symbols are named in lisp 15:54:24 $symbol, iirc 15:54:37 Ah, here we go: http://maxima.sourceforge.net/docs/manual/en/maxima_3.html#SEC5 15:55:39 it's funny how in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_computer_algebra_systems almost everything works on unix and some even don't work on windows 15:56:00 kpreid, thank you 15:56:00 weirdo: Yes, that always makes me laugh .. ? 15:56:19 weirdo: Main reason I don't use windows is 'cause no software works on it :P 15:56:23 -!- pkok [n=patrick@f102140.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:56:56 'cause when i want to play a video game i have to resort to wine, but if i were a mathematician, i could use unix just the same 15:57:18 Easy solution is to not play dem games ;) 15:57:30 *stassats* only plays video, no games 15:57:31 now i have to install latex to run imaxima :( 15:57:50 -!- sepult`` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-28-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:57:54 :D 15:58:08 you could just run it without emacs ;) 15:59:26 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:01:48 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-28-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:01:58 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-84-207.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 16:02:05 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:48 weirdo: You know, the other possible answer to your video game problem is to just play console games under emulation. 16:03:44 or get hacking on some proper lispgames ;) 16:04:25 lockspin [n=lockspin@host162-100-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:05:40 there aren't any emulators for new consoles like xbox 360 or PS3, etc. 16:05:51 it will take years to write such emulators 16:06:05 yeah, lisp games would be great :) 16:07:23 demmel [n=demmel@dslb-094-216-064-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:33 weirdo: then play old games ;) 16:07:39 (or get an xbox :P) 16:07:49 i don't buy consoles (or apple products) 16:07:58 what, on principle? 16:07:59 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.37] has joined #lisp 16:08:17 But you buy windows games? ;) 16:08:19 console is a PC with no keyboard, DRM hardware chips, the GPU turns itself off when running linux 16:08:25 schme, i don't :) 16:08:46 yeah, on principle, i won't give these bastards my money 16:08:51 guess there's no need for wine then either. cool beans. 16:09:01 quite cheap compared to a computer suitable for playing games 16:09:09 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 16:09:10 well i still play games even if i don't buy them 16:09:24 *rsynnott* wonders if HP or Dell or whatever is intrinsically more virtuous than Apple 16:09:31 and a good computer is useful for other stuff like lisp, having 4 cores pays for itself 16:10:12 at least dell or hp doesn't forbid you from using non-dell software like apple does for iphone or ipod 16:10:42 and they don't put DRM chips inside their hardware like apple does 16:11:41 erm, HP at least does make some locked-down hardware 16:11:42 i don't buy computer, i solder them myself 16:11:49 s/computer/computers/ 16:12:06 I made this processor myself, out of STRING :P 16:12:50 soldering million transistors is a rainy evening job 16:13:19 wow this maxima thing is nice, i think i'm gonna learn math because of it 16:13:37 it draws LaTeX equations right into emacs 16:16:20 weirdo: and you can have it plot shit into emacs too :) 16:16:48 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:19:04 jhalogen [n=jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:11 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:20:04 Kaprize [n=plinka@87.110.231.77] has joined #lisp 16:20:30 http://www.lostworlds.lv/go.php?1139723800 NEW WEBSITE GAME,COME AND PLAY. 16:20:39 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20:43 no thanks 16:20:50 -!- Kaprize [n=plinka@87.110.231.77] has left #lisp 16:21:30 was that TARGETED spam? 16:22:57 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-132-140.bflony.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:24:50 Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-128-171.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:40 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.37] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:27:52 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:30:02 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 16:30:23 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:32:35 letexpx [n=letexpx@abo-223-141-68.bdx.modulonet.fr] has joined #lisp 16:32:39 -!- salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [] 16:32:52 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1DBCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:28 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 16:38:44 jabans [n=plinka@87.110.231.77] has joined #lisp 16:38:47 rsynnott: I found buying from Dell to be a good business for me, at least for corporate purchases. I heard a lot of bad opinions regarding "normal" clients 16:38:56 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest98010 16:39:04 -!- jabans [n=plinka@87.110.231.77] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:39:10 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.247.6.172] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:39:17 yep, yep,,, they're not too bad 16:39:20 rsynnott: but they don't lock down their systems by default, that's sure :-) 16:39:39 p_l: what do you run on those Dells? 16:39:39 I'm just always surprised at people having ideological objections to buying from certain companies 16:39:45 p_l: corporate may be not too bad. For personal use, the problem is that they put specific hardware in them, so your standard linux drivers may not work so well. 16:39:49 If at all. 16:39:50 well, nor do apple, with their computers :) 16:40:12 rsynnott: that's not ideological it's just that they include junk parts. 16:40:21 I'm looking to buy a new notebook as soon as Apress $%@#$% reimburses me for some expenses. 16:40:30 I'm trying to decide between System76 and Dell. 16:40:39 If you save 1 condenser on a card, that's 10 cents less, but over the number it makes the CEO bonus. 16:40:49 gigamonkey: one office computer when doing a consulting job (we decided that instead of buying parts for the old one, they would get a new one with warranty), and a multifunction network printer 16:41:05 gigamonkey: really, a notebook/laptop, that should be Apple. 16:41:16 -!- patmatch [n=wmbot@dsl093-216-036.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:41:27 pjb: corporate has the additional plus that much of the corporate stuff is also linux-compatible, it seems 16:41:29 pjb: yeah, but I'm sick of Apple. 16:41:47 gigamonkey: I can understand. This is a difficult decision. 16:41:51 How well does stock Linux run on Intel Mac Books these days? 16:42:08 It seems stupid to pay extra for a Macbook if I'm just going to run Ubuntu on it. 16:42:20 yep 16:42:26 gigamonkey: good enough, I guess. As for laptops... get a thinkpad :P 16:42:26 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:42:34 That's true. If you want a linux notebook, it's probably easier and definitely cheaper if it's not Apple. 16:42:39 BrianRice [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:54 though if you were looking for a machine with a macbookish spec, it's actually going to be about the same price as an equivalent windows laptop these days 16:43:15 Plus, right now I have several of those Apple wireles access that you plug into an outlet and which you can plug a printer into. 16:43:27 patmatch [n=wmbot@dsl093-216-036.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:30 When I print to a printer so connected from my Linux box it works great. 16:43:37 (assuming you care about size/weight; you can get laptops very cheap if you're willing to deal with bulky/heavy) 16:43:39 -!- letexpx [n=letexpx@abo-223-141-68.bdx.modulonet.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:43:39 From my Power Book, it comes out looking like crcap. 16:43:43 crap. 16:43:46 rsynnott: I have yet to see competetive pricing from Apple, maybe it's different in USA 16:44:03 or wherever you are 16:44:05 gigamonkey: depends on the revision for maclinux. I'd look on the wikis first. 16:44:26 p_l: from wht I've seen prices are about the same for a mac laptop and an equiv dell 16:44:46 *p_l* used to respond to a friend's fawns over new MBP models with a spec from Eurocom... 16:44:47 I'm still happy with OS X for the laptop and linux and fbsd on the real boxes. 16:44:49 Only catch is that the mac has things a lot of buyers wouldn't want, like the fancy mobile graphics chip 16:44:53 I like the sturdlity of the monoblock MacBooks. 16:45:28 one day my friend asked me "why only 17" screen for a desktop?" and then had problems getting his jaw back when he found it was a laptop... 16:45:47 ah, 17" laptops are slightly ridiculous :) 16:45:57 p_l: well, we see ludicruous PC Laptops, with 23" screens... 16:46:02 it's not like they're particularly portable 16:46:04 "laptops"... 16:46:07 rsynnott: he was fawning over MBP 17" 16:46:21 rsynnott: I responded with 17" laptop-sized server/workstation :D 16:46:42 what makes it a 'server/workstation'? :) 16:47:22 rsynnott: two 1.5G Quadros, quad core Xeon, 6G of RAM, 3 hard drives, etc. 16:48:09 in a laptop form factor?t 16:48:15 that's absurd, sorry :P 16:48:18 p_l: it's not hard to make a cheap "laptop" if you use desktop parts to build a large luggable. 16:48:27 crap 16:48:27 rsynnott: tadpole computing (: 16:49:29 Hmmm. I just configured a System76 Pangolin notebook as near as possible to the same specs as a 15" MBP and got $1,028 vs $1,699. 16:49:29 rsynnott: I'm going through a configuration page for a 17" laptop with 4 2.5" drive bays, Xeon 5xxx, 12G ram etc :D 16:49:46 er, why not just buy a desktop, at that point? 16:49:52 not like it would be terribly portable anyway 16:50:02 -!- xvx [n=user01@189.247.6.172] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:52:15 moren_ [n=morel@unaffiliated/romani] has joined #lisp 16:52:54 rsynnott: They are "mobile workstations" - you don't expect to use them on your lap, but you expect them to fit a 17" notebook carrying case and deliver heavy-duty computing power on-site 16:52:55 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357275.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:53:28 ah, really, these days, who actually needs a quad core? 16:53:34 Are there packages that will generate C code? For example, starting from some AST? 16:53:36 Except for servers, obviously 16:53:43 rsynnott: HPC 16:54:09 quidnunc: there was scexp, but I think it vanished 16:54:41 quidnunc: scexp: "symbolic C expressions" 16:55:14 michaelw: Thanks 16:55:16 rsynnott: basically, the idea is to pack an equivalent of powerful desktop into laptop form, so it's easy to move and deploy anywhere 16:55:42 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl6-65-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:56:04 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:56:04 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:56:54 hrrm 16:57:06 rsynnott: because, sometimes, you might need to recalculate structure of that building on site, or do a quick simulation for an experiment, or just do some calculations on your latest work for GUT during some conference :) 16:57:40 p_l: ssh. 16:57:58 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@188-23-186-168.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:58:06 yep, was thinking that 16:58:07 pkhuong: especially with GLX over GPRS, no thanks 16:58:17 this is what we have the interwebs for :P 16:58:25 ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-28-219.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:58:31 Hmm, remote slime work - does anyone use this sorta thing often and find it fairly reliable for development? 16:59:04 And by remote, I mean running swank on another machine, and connecting to it from slime on a host machine. 16:59:13 TDT: probably handier to have it locally for development 16:59:20 rsynnott: the thing is, 1) network not always available 2) you might need some stuff that isn't easu over net (3D etc.) 16:59:22 but it's handy for servers 16:59:24 TDT: I used to do that when I was consulting with Franz. 16:59:28 Meh. Even the smaller form-factor machines have respectable performance these days. 17:00:06 nyef: much to the dismay of dell et al 17:00:23 I'll tell you this - Eurocom is apparently a popular brand for ANSYS computing nodes, except they are in form of laptops ;P 17:00:24 it has become very difficult indeed to convince people they need to buy a new computer every two years 17:00:44 rsynnott: Part of the problem I'm running into is that I'm using OSX quite a bit for development now, but would prefer to use carbon emacs since the keyboard bindings are closer to that of linux (specifically the meta key) which is what I use at work. 17:00:58 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-69-110-24-194.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:02 gigamonkey: Did you find that fairly reliable, how long did you do that for? 17:01:21 hmm on amd64 long floats are 64-bit long. does it mean they can fit in a register now? 17:01:43 TDT: so why not use slime normally with carbon emacs? 17:01:59 TDT: There's an option to position the modifiers as you want on MacOSX Keyboard Preference Panel... 17:02:02 i mean, there was always a problem with lisp that floats passed to functions had to be unboxed so every function had to be inlined 17:02:45 rsynnott: To be honest, I really enjoy developing in virtual machines, for the ease of backing up stuff, as well as snapshots, and moving things around. Plus most of the time I prefer to develop things for linux, more than for OSX and worry about the compatibility of Linux once I finish developing something. 17:03:02 -!- faure [n=moe@CPE001217e40caa-CM0018c0c09832.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 17:03:36 pjb: *nod* yeah, that's one idea I thought of as well, the only bad part of that is it'll change it globally, which means pasting is changed everywhere else. That's kinda the last resort for me in some ways. 17:04:13 TDT: I really don't understand what the problem is with using slime in carbon emacs. 17:04:15 TDT: an alternative is to hack xmodmap, but it's harder and more confusing. 17:04:23 illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:07 pkhuong: That's kinda what I want to do, but connect remotely, to a swank server on the virtual machine - I was just curious if anyone else did something like this reliably over the longer term :) 17:05:15 weirdo: Sorry, you need some overhead for type-tagging. But short-floats fit in a register, boxed, on amd64. 17:06:19 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-128-171.bflony.east.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:06:34 TDT: where's the problem then? 17:08:53 pkhuong: I was just curious if anyone has had any odd issues with such a setup over the long term - just doing some research before I put the time into setting this all up. 17:10:14 nyef, glad to hear that 17:10:41 but can you truncate a double-float 3 bits so it will fit in a register instead of allocating it? 17:11:12 Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-177-56.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:01 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-85.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:11 weirdo: it's possible but in general, it means bit shuffling. 17:15:51 weirdo: basically, floats are records of an mantissa and an exponent, and if you want to drop 3 bits from the matissa, it can be done easily only if the mantissa is in the least significant bits. Often it won't be the case so that integer CMP can check whether the floating point is positive or negative. (Hardware people have some strange idea of what is useful). 17:17:10 pjb: huh? IEEE is sign, exponent & significand. That way you can compare floats as integers in sign-magnitude. 17:17:12 So, basically: (logior +truncated-float-tag+ (logior (ash (logand +mantissa-mask+) +mantissa-shift+) (ash (logand +exponent-mask+) +exponent-shift+))) 17:17:19 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-28-219.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:17:21 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:51 pkhuong: IEEE doesn't specify the order of the bits when they're in the memory or integer processor registers. 17:19:11 But if you happen to be on an architecture where it's the case, then indeed you may just put the tag bits in the three low order bits of the float. 17:19:22 -!- moe_c [n=moe@CPE001217e40caa-CM0018c0c09832.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:19:38 pjb: no, but the sign and mantissa are separate, so your assertion that the mantissa will rarely be in the least significant bits because we want the sign bit in the MSB doesn't make sense. 17:20:01 You're right. 17:22:52 Now, assuming that we mask off three bits of the mantissa, what bits would be better to be put there? Perhaps one of the 8 possibility allow us to skip a mask or minimize errors when computing floating point operations? 17:23:16 -!- frozsyn [n=FrozSyn@blm93-2-82-229-63-104.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:23:49 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:24:37 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:25:56 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 17:26:13 increment by 4 and mask to get round to nearest (doesn't do round to even unfortunately) 17:26:18 -!- Guest98010 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 17:26:34 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 17:27:02 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest65341 17:27:28 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:45 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-177-56.bflony.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:31:36 Xach: herep 17:31:51 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:32:26 minion: memo for Xach: you got a mention in the first review of Coders at Work: http://jfm3-repl.blogspot.com/2009/08/review-coders-at-work.html 17:32:26 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 17:32:31 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:26 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:38:11 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:38:44 kmels [n=kmels@190.148.176.112] has joined #lisp 17:42:32 The 'it' is vaguely worrying 17:42:44 future-proof against AI, I suppose... 17:43:10 -!- kmels [n=kmels@190.148.176.112] has quit [Client Quit] 17:44:15 jfm's review made me wanting to buy CaW 17:45:34 heheh, Knuth wrote Te in a book? 17:45:43 *TeX 17:46:15 Well, what else would he write it in? Pascal? 17:47:10 in lisp! 17:48:14 -!- carbocalm [n=user@69-196-188-88.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:48:47 stassats: iirc there was an explanation why original Web source for TeX was in Pascal 17:49:09 *stassats* uses paper and pencil for thinking on algorithms 17:49:13 basically, it was easier to expect a Pascal system than others at that time 17:49:21 Ogedei [n=user@e178197223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:47 saikat__ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:50 manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6D796.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:28 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:57:20 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:58 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:00:08 -!- gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:00:16 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-24-191.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:07:18 stassats: you got the profile thingie? 18:07:46 yeah 18:07:58 it's comitted? 18:08:03 yeah 18:08:08 cool thank you 18:09:45 Idebesiktningen [i=HydraIRC@95.209.49.81.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 18:10:03 -!- Idebesiktningen [i=HydraIRC@95.209.49.81.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Client Quit] 18:10:35 Idebesiktningen [i=HydraIRC@95.209.49.81.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 18:17:59 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-47-76.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:22:14 [ot] http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/2009/08/pressure-sensitive-keyboard.html 18:23:31 i remember pressing keys harder and harder while playing games 18:24:24 stipet [n=user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:27:55 Knuth wrote TeX on a notebook in pencil? Really? 18:27:59 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:28:52 -!- Guest65341 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 18:28:58 an 18:29:14 no doubt his handwriting has perfect kerning 18:29:59 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:30:33 He says the notebook is in the Stanford archives. It'd be interesting to see a picture of that. 18:30:36 knuth likes formal proofs, so it's no wonder 18:31:19 meh, I don't see the connection. 18:31:59 if he proves code he writes, he doesn't have to write it to know it's working 18:32:15 s/write it/run it 18:32:44 I doubt he wrote proofs for TeX. 18:34:04 salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:08 letexpx [n=letexpx@abo-223-141-68.bdx.modulonet.fr] has joined #lisp 18:34:16 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 18:34:56 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:35:04 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:35:23 -!- letexpx is now known as letexpx|aw 18:35:57 -!- Commienazi [i=HydraIRC@95.209.37.136.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:35:57 -!- Idebesiktningen is now known as Commienazi 18:37:32 -!- letexpx|aw is now known as |letexpx| 18:38:26 -!- |letexpx| [n=letexpx@abo-223-141-68.bdx.modulonet.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 18:38:36 stassats: Is the slime-cvs dog slow for you, too? 18:38:45 -!- Ogedei [n=user@e178197223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 18:39:33 what do you mean? 18:40:01 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 18:40:38 It's taking me ages to do any operation on the repository 18:40:53 yes, quite slow 18:41:11 H4ns [n=hans@cust-206-40-162-83.bos-static.gis.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:19 Geralt [n=Geralt@p54A2BE34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:33 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Client Quit] 18:47:04 -!- Athas` is now known as Athas 18:52:10 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.40.35] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:54:40 jao [n=jao@127.Red-213-98-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:35 ChupaVergas [n=ChupaVer@201.171.93.226] has joined #lisp 19:00:31 -!- ChupaVergas [n=ChupaVer@201.171.93.226] has quit [K-lined] 19:01:34 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:02:02 -!- moren_ [n=morel@unaffiliated/romani] has quit [] 19:02:59 lacedaemon [n=algidus@88-149-212-164.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:03:21 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-141.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:03:24 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 19:04:38 stassats: Could you please test if C-x ` works for you in the slime compilation buffer? 19:04:49 (do not update, I want to make sure that was not something introduced by me) 19:06:25 sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 19:06:32 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:06:48 sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 19:07:30 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:07:46 sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 19:07:46 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:08:25 seems to work 19:08:28 -!- jhalogen [n=jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:10:37 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 19:14:21 i think i know how to do unification on CL types 19:14:39 make a variable deftype that sets a variable to the object matched if it's unbound, if not, compares to previous value 19:14:40 kmels [n=kmels@190.148.176.112] has joined #lisp 19:20:54 TDT pasted "swank/cl-launch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/85090 19:21:48 I am trying to get cl-launch to launch swank through a shell script, and this paste shows what I have. The lisp commands at the top, I can run through an sbcl shell just fine without any issues. Is there anything that anyone can see what I'm doing incorrectly here? 19:22:33 well, the package from which a symbol is accessed should be present at the read-time 19:23:06 knob [n=anon@65-23-218-38.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:51 -!- H4ns [n=hans@cust-206-40-162-83.bos-static.gis.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:23:59 Good morning everyone =) 19:24:13 knob: good night 19:24:26 Hey = 19:24:27 ) 19:24:51 stassats: Shouldn't the loadop require swank, making this value available? 19:25:26 not necessarily 19:26:05 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 19:26:40 -!- stipet [n=user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:27:14 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.37] has joined #lisp 19:28:55 Eleanore [n=a@c-4526e555.035-34-73746f10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:30:43 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-164.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:35:02 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-229.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:36:15 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:38:06 ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 19:38:21 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:38:53 hello, what is a nice way to send C-d to a proccess I started via sb-ext:run-program? I tried (format output "^D") but it didnt work 19:40:24 No idea over here man. =) 19:41:49 kill it 19:41:55 oh wait 19:41:58 C-d is EOF 19:42:02 so close its input stream 19:42:09 descriptor 0 19:42:28 if that fails you can kill it 19:43:06 weirdo: oh yes, closing it helped, thank you 19:50:44 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:48 isn't C-d EOT? 19:53:11 yeah C-d is eot 19:53:38 I tried sending #\Eot also, didnt help, otoh closing the stream is a better solution anyways 19:56:17 end of transmission? 19:58:07 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 19:58:08 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-108-120.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:59:30 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6D796.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 20:05:42 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:07:16 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:54 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:13:39 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:15:54 -!- npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:15:58 *weirdo* making a lispy python 20:16:07 so i have an idea how to do indentation depth 20:16:22 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-109-204.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 20:16:22 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:24 there would be special forms like (1+-indentation datum) and (1--indentation datum) 20:16:26 with parenthesis? 20:17:00 and pattern matchers for macros could then know whether indentation is correct 20:17:27 so i'm only going to hardcode infix operators into the parser, it will have macros, etc. 20:17:28 :> 20:17:48 why hardcode? 20:18:17 maybe i'm going to regenerate the parser (or the lexer) every time someone defines a new infix operator 20:18:30 but some things have to be hardcoded 20:18:38 like the foo[42] operator for array reference 20:18:47 it's not lispy then 20:18:53 it is 20:18:59 no! 20:19:04 the AST is easy to transform 20:19:12 there are macros 20:19:18 the core languages in built in terms of macros 20:19:19 but hmm 20:19:29 maybe there will be generalized types of operators 20:19:30 ManateeL` [n=user@121.13.179.198] has joined #lisp 20:19:36 prefix, postfix, binary, etc. 20:19:43 and customizable precedence levels 20:20:00 like in haskell? 20:20:21 like, add-my-new-operator-{before,after,at} '*, function 20:20:36 -!- scottmaccal [n=scott@pool-71-173-70-156.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:20:43 WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has joined #lisp 20:20:51 i don't know haskell 20:20:55 but haskell isn't lispy enough 20:21:14 Newbie question: How do I move a file in Common lisp? (I don't want to copy then delete if I don't have to) 20:21:22 ... Are there any clever things that a Sufficiently Smart Compiler could do involving SATISFIES types when it knows about the predicate involved (to use a simple example, if a value is given to be EVENP, being able to either use the low bit for something else or to hold an extra high bit in unboxed storage)? 20:21:58 WarWeasle: You either copy then delete or you use a platform-specific function, I think... 20:21:58 weirdo: well, there is also Liskell 20:22:20 clhs rename-file 20:22:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rn_fil.htm 20:22:27 Oh. 20:22:29 Or that. 20:22:29 I'm using sbcl... 20:22:40 What I get for mostly ignoring that chapter of the spec. 20:23:14 don't ask how to rename directories 20:23:14 Oh, it's showing up in slime now....Did someone just add it to the spec? :) 20:23:37 use osicat for IO 20:23:48 and rename-file is underspecified 20:23:54 what if two files are on separate partitions? 20:23:59 what if the destination file exists? 20:24:08 unix has ways to deal with it 20:24:11 pathnames are underspecified 20:24:18 yeah 20:24:21 Pathnames are deliberately underspecified. 20:24:25 but sbcl has them nicely implemented 20:24:34 so they're easy to use and there's CL-FAD 20:24:58 i didn't read the pathname spec and i already knew how MERGE-PATHNAMES works by trying it 20:27:10 Gold [n=ebsjux@189-19-112-172.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:27:23 -!- Gold is now known as Goldmember 20:29:28 Sweet, I'll have all my porn renamed in no time. 20:30:27 pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-96-250-220-91.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:32 -!- ManateeL` [n=user@121.13.179.198] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:30:42 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:32:16 scottmaccal [n=scott@pool-71-173-70-156.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:20 "SBCL: The tool for all your porn-renaming needs"? 20:32:42 s/needs/dreams/ 20:33:12 sellout [n=greg@65.196.126.11] has joined #lisp 20:33:18 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.94.112] has joined #lisp 20:33:18 Well I need more. I have to get information on each file. Is it a picture or a vid? Is is from /d/ or /s/? 20:33:20 *stassats* has really strange dreams 20:33:43 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:10 How else can I write 4chan *the game*? 20:34:14 :) 20:34:27 WarWeasle: cat /dev/urandom 20:34:47 stassats: ever woken up mumbling something about IPL on IBM S/360? :P 20:35:29 i don't think so 20:35:54 hmm would it be hard to write a parser having only 3 types (postifx, infix, prefix), associativity, precedence and parenthesis? 20:36:14 stassats: LOL!!! 20:36:21 i don't know if i'm not losing some metaprogramming capability by relying on a parser generator 20:36:29 weirdo: sounds like you want TDOP 20:36:29 drewc, memo from demmel: Found another inconsistency in arnesi walker regarding load-time-value 20:36:58 drewc, TDOP? 20:37:08 top down operator precedence? 20:37:12 weirdo: "Top Down Operator Precendence" 20:37:43 (string-capitalize **) 20:38:04 weirdo: it's a method of parsing that allows an extensibe sytax that is especially well suited to implementation on lisp-like languages. 20:38:24 drewc, could you please elaborate? wikipedia doesn't return much 20:38:42 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:43 the paper is 15 bucks from ACM, the cgol code is in the CMU AI repos, and crockford has a simple javascript implementation avaialble. 20:39:13 thank you 20:39:50 the cgol code actually works too, if you change a couple '(lambda ..) forms to (compile nil .... ) 20:40:36 drewc: If you have a couple of minutes, I'd like to ask some more questions about things i found in arnesi walker. But there is no rush... 20:40:47 pdo [n=pdo@dyn-62-56-51-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:41:06 demmel: i have some time .. shoot 20:41:35 weirdo: http://effbot.org/zone/tdop-index.htm 20:41:49 thank you 20:42:25 there is two definitions of load-time-value-form and the according handler 20:42:27 I have a non-programming question if anyone knows: Is the Maple Symbolic Math Engine based on Lisp? 20:42:48 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 20:43:09 the latter one looks better but I thinks it buggy aswell 20:43:25 anyway the according unit test fails 20:45:19 demmel: do you have a test case, an idea what should happen, and/or even better a patch? 20:45:39 drewc: hang on 20:46:27 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-28-14.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:46:42 -!- sellout [n=greg@65.196.126.11] has quit [] 20:47:59 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-24-191.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:52:17 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:54:56 demmel pasted "arnesi patch for load-time-value" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/85096 20:55:06 drewc: i propose this 20:55:14 use diff -u! 20:55:48 forget the fidd 20:55:49 diff 20:55:56 its rubbish anyway 20:55:56 Any of you tried out the slimv vim plugin? 20:56:32 tic: Someone pointed it out to me and I took a look 20:56:40 herbieB, what did you think? 20:56:42 so you wanna catch us at vim-using? 20:56:50 Hehe. No, I'm just curious. 20:57:01 Looks nice, but it's written in Python mostly. 20:57:05 tic: Unsurprisingly, it's not for me. 20:57:16 herbieB, why's that unsurprising? 20:57:18 (emacs userå) 20:57:28 tic: <- develops nekthuth 20:57:36 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has left #lisp 20:57:39 herbieB, oh. coolio. then we have spoken. :-) 20:57:42 nekthuth is mostly in python too 20:57:52 stassats: i've never used darcs. thanks. 20:57:55 stassats: It is,. 20:57:57 Yeah. I don't like that approach. 20:58:07 tic: Anyway, it's pretty basic. Doesn't do anything with CLs introspection. 20:58:15 herbieB, slimv? 20:58:16 tic: I saw no compelling reason to use it over fvl 20:58:17 it's approach of less hassle 20:58:21 gigamonkey: no subtitle, eh 20:58:22 Xach, memo from gigamonkey: you got a mention in the first review of Coders at Work: http://jfm3-repl.blogspot.com/2009/08/review-coders-at-work.html 20:58:22 tic: Yeah 20:58:23 herbieB, alright. 20:59:04 herbieB, a shame, thought it'd be better than Limp. :-) I've come up with a way of using Lisp functions where Vim expects Vimscript functions, e.g. indentfunc, omni etc. So I'm going to look into rewriting Limp in Lisp. 20:59:18 I've made some more changes to arnesi. Can I somehow extract only the changes I want in a patch? In the past above I just copied the relvant sections, but I guess the line numbers wont match... 20:59:37 tic: Are you absolutely positive you don't want to just use emacs...? 20:59:38 s/past/paste 20:59:39 ("come up with a way" is an exaggeration, I'm just automatically creating wrapper functions...) 20:59:42 demmel: emacs can modify diffs 20:59:53 tic: You're now extending your editor using lisp...there's an editor that does that :P 21:00:06 herbieB, until Vimpulse matures enough, yeah. 21:00:41 herbieB, I know! :-) I do everything in the complicated way, if possible, e.g. my custom flavor of svorak, which is a Swedish variation of Dvorak. Etc. 21:00:47 demmel: M-k for killing hunks 21:01:13 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:31 no, this doesn't get line-numbers 21:02:50 no, it actually does 21:03:06 sellout [n=greg@65.196.126.11] has joined #lisp 21:05:32 demmel: arnesi is in darcs, so just do 'darcs record', record only the parts you want, and 'darcs send -o' 21:06:51 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Network is unreachable] 21:08:01 does git have something similar? 21:08:44 yeah, interactive add. 21:11:39 Xach: herep 21:12:14 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D796.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:24 Joreji [n=user@42-054.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:13:22 drewc: Oh I like this. Is this something git can do aswell, or is that unique to darcs? 21:13:32 demmel: see above 21:13:38 ... 21:13:40 just saw 21:14:09 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:14:09 git add -i, and http://andrewprice.me.uk/weblog/entry/generating-patch-emails-with-git 21:14:09 drewc: Do you want the patch by mail or on lisppaste 21:14:23 minion: memo for Xach: the subtitle hasn't been finalized by marketing yet. 21:14:24 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 21:14:37 Hey guys, I have one system (cl-json) which has the same namespace prefix as another system (cl-yason) - and they bite eachother. Is there some way I can rename one of the systems inside my asdf:defsystem form? 21:14:46 demmel: send it to the bese-devel list 21:14:57 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:15:18 clhs rename-package 21:15:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rn_pkg.htm 21:16:08 slyrus: blog DOWN 21:16:09 Xach, memo from gigamonkey: the subtitle hasn't been finalized by marketing yet. 21:16:19 gigamonkey: heh 21:17:18 stassats: Well, I have both systems in :depends-on for my whole project. I get the problem during compilation of the latter system. Where do I put rename-package? 21:17:29 (defmethod asdf:perform :after ((operation asdf:load-op) (module cl-yason)) (rename-package ...)) 21:17:31 francogrex [n=franco@87.65.53.115] has joined #lisp 21:17:39 something like this 21:17:47 Hi anyone using cl-pdf for generating plots? 21:17:48 Cool, thanks! 21:17:55 exu0 [n=u@dslb-084-056-204-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:44 francogrex: i have done it from time to time 21:20:03 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:20:48 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:20:54 Xach: ok, do you know if there is a manual (I tried to contact Marc Battyani but no response)? 21:22:11 I want specfically to know how to use the option :label-rotation in :x-axis-options. It doesn't seem to have any effect 21:22:14 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D796.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 21:23:59 danlei` [n=user@pD954FF2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:15 Joreji: (defmethod perform :after ((operation load-op) (component (eql (find-system cl-yason)))) (rename-package 'cl-yason 'cl-aeson)) 21:25:30 ah, (find-system 'cl-yason) 21:25:48 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:26:51 drewc: ok finally sent it. more questions: 21:27:06 francogrex: I think the closest thing there is to a manual are the examples that come with the code. 21:27:09 stassats: you mean :cl-yason or #:cl-yason. system names are not package scoped 21:27:16 And the source, of course. 21:27:29 drewc: walk-lambda-list doesnt use the macro-p parameter. can we remove it? 21:27:48 kpreid: "cl-yason", or whatever 21:29:03 -!- sellout [n=greg@65.196.126.11] has quit [] 21:29:23 masm [n=masm@bl10-209-43.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:29:26 drewc: same in register-walk-env/extend-walk-env. other-datum is neither used, nor ignored, nor ever passed to those functions. 21:29:33 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:29:43 drewc: can it be removed? 21:31:56 -!- salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [] 21:32:17 scottmaccal1 [n=scott@pool-71-173-70-156.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:40 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:32:49 -!- scottmaccal [n=scott@pool-71-173-70-156.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:32:50 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:33:03 salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:41 http://www.advogato.org/person/ingvar/diary.html?start=299 <-- I seriously hate how SLIME is developed 21:33:52 very linux-y 21:34:20 demmel: walk-lambda-list should probably implement the macro-p option rather than drop it... unless that feature is implemented elsewhere. 21:34:22 then do something about it 21:34:27 (also linux-y) 21:35:12 mathrick: just read changelog regularly 21:35:25 Krystof: a typical linux-y fallacy. No, I can't just announce a fork and be done with it 21:35:48 stassats: that doesn't remove the annoyance of "I wonder what will break this time" at all 21:35:58 no, but you can do the work needed to adapt the development to your needs 21:36:07 mathrick: so what do you propose? i'm listening 21:36:07 you can volunteer your services as release engineer 21:36:10 demmel: as for the rest, cleanup is always welcome. 21:36:28 you can contribute test cases for functionality you don't want broken 21:36:31 drewc: havent looked in the details. But marco-p is never used aswell. 21:36:33 stassats: not changing shit every week 21:36:45 drewc: Never passed i mean 21:36:52 demmel: right, but it should be... i 21:37:01 mathrick: no, thanks 21:37:03 i'd like to be able to walk a macro lambda-list 21:37:03 like that time the inspector hooks were removed because they were supposedly unused, and then the inspector was broken on SBCL for several weeks 21:37:25 stassats: I don't mean improving, but seriously, *every* upgrade breaks something 21:37:26 mathrick: you can report bugs, you know 21:37:30 I did 21:37:33 that's what I was told 21:37:36 drewc: I'll look whether its implemented elsewhere 21:37:38 so don't upgrade, or report 21:37:54 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Success] 21:38:05 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:38:12 which just proves my point of "SLIME's development model is not viable", if the best option is to opt out 21:38:19 nonsense 21:38:21 i upgrade slime more than every week for more than a year and i'm ok 21:38:29 upgrade when you have the time to deal with changes 21:38:34 don't upgrade when you don't 21:38:49 and look: that's scalable! Everyone can upgrade when they are ready 21:39:03 -!- pdo [n=pdo@dyn-62-56-51-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [] 21:39:21 i upgrade maybe once a month... and if the upgrade doesn't go smoothly and i don't have the time.. i revert. 21:39:23 slime-indentation is great 21:39:24 i don't upgrade linux kernel every week because i don't know how to deal with its bugs 21:39:24 also: I consider it much, much more important that people who are currently contributing are happy with what they are doing, than _your_ convenience. 21:39:28 finally loop bodies are indented properly 21:40:34 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C9A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 21:40:41 -!- Goldmember [n=ebsjux@189-19-112-172.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit ["War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left. (www.cyberscript.org)"] 21:41:46 what do you think? is it better if in a lisp everything is an object or not? 21:41:49 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:42:05 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:43:00 I hope that you will concede also that your point that "SLIME's development model is not viable" is patently refuted by the fact that it's been working like this for a good number of years now 21:43:02 drewc: it seems parse-macro-definition handles macro lambda lists. So i suggest dropping the macro-p parameter in walk-lambda-list 21:43:09 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:43:13 oh hell. i'll go for objects. + - / * have to be overloadable anyway 21:43:20 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:43:21 so who cares about that one more slot access 21:43:49 and not upgrading when you don't need is a general advice 21:44:17 but if you upgrade even if you don't need it you can have mismatched commas highlighted in red! 21:44:41 slime works for me, it doesn't have that many bugs and tcr responds on the channel 21:44:55 drewc: as for "other-datum" which is neither used in nor passed to register-walk-env. I think we can drop that aswell. I will send a patch 21:45:10 demmel: sounds good to me. 21:49:04 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:49:30 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Operation timed out] 21:50:23 Krystof: and that is exactly my problem with both Linux and SLIME. It's a club of "non-kernel hackers GTFO" attitude. I get that SLIME is a really cool project, but believe it or not, it's not the only project ever. Some of us want to use it to work on *something else*, and not just on itself. Twisting the "you have source, so you can fix it" into "you have source, so you're required to drop everything and fix it or GTFO" is completely dishones 21:50:23 t and the essence of what's wrong with Linux-type projects 21:51:03 well, your rants doesn't make it any better for you 21:51:39 neither does not ranting, but at least I get to communicate what I think about it 21:52:25 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:53:31 you have the source, and nothing but nothing forces you to move from that source 21:53:50 if you want to work on something else, why are you upgrading slime with any frequency at all? 21:54:16 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:54:33 because 1) SBCL upgrades mandate that sometimes 2) I run into bugs 21:54:37 and you are free to report bugs, and free to do all sorts of things, but saying that its development model is non-viable just because it doesn't make your life maximally easy is fairly self-centered 21:54:45 don't upgrade SBCL? 21:54:52 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:54:58 what if I run into SBCL bugs?] 21:55:12 am I suddenly not allowed to upgrade anything ever? 21:55:17 patch them? 21:55:22 the point is to make upgrades not something to dread 21:55:32 not possible 21:55:32 again, that's twisting things into their opposite 21:55:42 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:44 Krystof: only if you don't care at all 21:56:06 really? 21:56:39 look at stable linux distros, they don't upgrade, they only patch bugs 21:56:45 I know there's always going to be some breakage, and that's not my problem. My problem is that SLIME is essentially driven by constant breakage and splitting out modules into unsupported contribs that work different or not at all 21:56:54 *differently 21:57:07 cf. the inspector "simplification" 21:57:27 the developers are being honest about what they support and what they don't 21:57:32 so, you have on example, and you already call it "constant breakage" 21:57:42 that's not very encouraging 21:57:46 s/on/one/ 21:58:23 oh c'mon, it's not like I write down every time it broke, that'd take too long 21:58:42 now I just don't upgrade ever unless absolutely pressed into it by the circumstances 21:59:09 well, that's silly too 21:59:22 why? You just told me to 21:59:25 you should upgrade when, based on a reasonable amount of information, the benefits outweigh the costs 21:59:40 upgrading SLIME == constant pain and unbreaking things that used to work 21:59:47 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:59:53 "constant"? You're doing it wrong 22:00:04 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:00:08 pretty much every time I did it, it broke 22:00:11 -!- scottmaccal1 [n=scott@pool-71-173-70-156.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:00:31 so yes, constant, save for maybe two times when miraculously nothing broke visibly 22:01:06 well, maybe you should wait a bit for the pain to subside before upgrading again 22:01:15 hahaha 22:01:38 is it possible to have .fas or .fasl files as components in an asdf defsystem or is it strictly .lisp files? 22:01:57 look, I get it: you're angry. The problem is, you're coming across as though you think (a) everyone must agree with you (b) it's everyone's fault but your own and (c) that other people owe you convenience 22:02:18 francogrex: it loads fasl if it's newer, that's how i think it works 22:03:06 if you step back and think about how to work to overcome your problems, rather than lashing out at people who never promised you anything with random factoids and assertions that their way of working is broken, you might do better 22:03:16 and asdf is extensible, you can make many weird things with it 22:03:36 stassats: ok;thx 22:04:45 Krystof: I'm angry because there's a balance to strike in being a maintainer between driving the project and serving the community. Sure, you do it for free, but that doesn't change the fact I consider SLIME and Linux two projects that exemplify one extreme of imbalance, one that's particularly annoying and discouraging 22:04:52 stassats: that's because I want to write an asdf that uses another asdf (and that latter I had already compiled them into fas file) 22:05:07 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:05:08 oh wait, why not use :depends-on? 22:05:17 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:05:27 you "owe" the community in that you use contributors, ideas, feedback, bug reports, personal pride, etc. to drive the project 22:05:52 stassats: like :depends-on "iterate.asd" 22:05:58 and thus constantly breaking things for people who might not have the time to jump full time into unbreaking things is not fair 22:05:58 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:06:08 francogrex: :depends-on '(iterate) 22:06:29 you're telling me upgrading slime breaks it every time? 22:06:33 what impl are you using? 22:06:34 if it's loaddable, it will load it also automatically 22:06:41 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:06:45 wait, are you thinking I'm defending myself? I haven't contributed noticeably to slime in many years 22:07:12 i've been using lisp for a year and slime mostly works after upgrading 22:07:24 Krystof: no, I know you're not the slime maintainer 22:07:29 I am acting as a data point to try to explain that the SLIME development model is working for me: and that you should therefore think whether the problem lies at _your_ end 22:07:36 stassats: ok and it will recognize that iterate has .asd. Ok will try. I hope when I compile into a fas file the final asdf that depends on the others, they will be integrated within the one large file 22:07:59 mathrick: "serving the community" ?? 22:08:05 (I do not seem to be the only person with this opinion) 22:08:05 where's Fare when you need him ? 22:08:21 fe[nl]ix: yes? 22:08:24 like tcr said, "slime is a big mutually shared .emacs" 22:08:56 anyway, I gotta go to sleep, working from 7AM is a bitch 22:09:12 maybe that's way you are angry 22:09:53 no, I'm naturally angry, it's my superpower 22:09:55 g'night 22:09:56 hmm i wish (format t "foo" bar baz) indented baz at bar 22:10:05 same for keyword arguments 22:10:19 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-69-110-24-194.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [] 22:10:22 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:10:30 (foo bar :baz 42 :xenu 666) 22:10:32 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:10:33 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:37 vsync [n=vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 22:15:18 is a language a lisp if there are no separate reading and evaluation stages? 22:15:37 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:16:06 dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:18 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:17:00 load on .lisp works somewhat like this 22:17:58 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:17:58 -!- Commienazi [i=HydraIRC@95.209.49.81.bredband.tre.se] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:18:25 Commienazi [i=HydraIRC@95.209.49.81.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 22:18:25 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 22:18:51 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:20:51 -!- dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:21:08 weirdo: No, if there are no separate reading and evaluating stages you get forth instead. 22:22:11 Or maybe smalltalk-72. 22:22:13 i dunno how get macros and a separate reading stage 22:22:35 ... I can't parse that. 22:23:17 read. macroexpand till done. compile. load. run. profit. 22:23:31 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229129180.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 22:23:58 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:24:09 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:24:19 ... But where do the underpants come in? 22:24:32 -!- pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-96-250-220-91.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:25:00 but what the read form look like? 22:25:22 input like this: [foo, 42, 1 + 2, some-macro macro arguments, foo] 22:25:26 wbraun [n=chatzill@p5B2042B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:27:05 stassats: macroexpand-till-done is pretty much the definition of "compile" in cl-the-spec. 22:27:14 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.94.112] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:28:09 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1DBCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:28:26 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1DBCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:15 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:29:25 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:33:45 Is there a simple way to hack asdf so that if module A depends on module B, and some file in module B is recompiled, then it triggers recompilation of module A as well? 22:34:10 nope 22:34:28 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:34:34 asdf doesn't do (and probably never will do) dependencies between module sub-components 22:34:47 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:35:13 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:36:22 no sane wayt to specify them, and no sane way to represent them internally 22:36:23 that's why you have to remove all fasls after doing major upgrades 22:37:02 use asdf-binary-locations 22:38:42 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1DBCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:39:52 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:40:03 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:43:16 does anyone have any idea, why darcs would skip a record that i try to send? 22:43:33 -!- francogrex [n=franco@87.65.53.115] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:43:54 its built-in AI doesn't like your ugly code? 22:44:00 -!- asksol [n=ask@084202073154.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:45:07 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:45:12 ... 22:45:18 maybe 22:45:25 demmel: did you skip a previous patch? 22:45:27 its too damn clever 22:45:43 demmel: it probably depends on a patch you skipped 22:45:52 darcs will silently skip over patches which depend on patches you explicitly don't send 22:45:54 kpreid: i unrecorded a patch 22:46:16 -!- saikat__ is now known as saikat_ 22:46:18 a record i mean 22:47:11 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-119.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:22 i thought that would complete erase that record 22:49:41 if there were dependencies on it the unrecord would have failed, I think 22:50:13 -!- lockspin [n=lockspin@host162-100-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 22:50:26 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:51:23 sorry for offtopic, but what to do if my chair is too low and stuff looks differently when sitting on it? for instance, ` is almost invisible 22:52:15 buy binoculars? 22:53:07 -!- amaron [n=amaron@cable-94-189-243-158.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:12 i mean, stuff looks differently on lcds when looking from various angles 22:53:29 so change angle? 22:53:37 make a system of mirrors? 22:53:44 ok, nevermind 22:54:05 a block and tackle system with a pulley over your shoulders might help 22:54:10 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:47 Xach: to hang under the ceiling? 22:55:18 -!- booo [n=user@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff2dc000-174.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:55:26 kpreid: the unrecord didnt fail. and it doesnt show um in darcs changes 22:55:49 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:56:03 weirdo: you have an LCD without a tilt adjustment? 22:56:48 kpreid, i don't know, it's a fairly new LCD (LG 21" 16:10), maybe my eyes are getting old 22:57:13 weirdo: I mean, there should be a joint so you can adjust its angle to match the direction you're looking at it from 22:57:34 i can't adjust the angle, only rotate it 23:00:15 wow ALPHANUMERICP 23:00:28 i could have sworn that function wasn't there last time i checked 23:00:31 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:51 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:01:31 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@88.208.105.1] has quit [] 23:01:40 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Client Quit] 23:02:10 -!- Joreji [n=user@42-054.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:02:22 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:06:06 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:07:27 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:09:46 dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:01 -!- exu0 [n=u@dslb-084-056-204-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:11:56 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@sjc-static-208.57.178.24.mpowercom.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:20 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@sjc-static-208.57.178.24.mpowercom.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:12:26 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@sjc-static-208.57.178.24.mpowercom.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:47 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-84-207.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:36 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:15:50 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:16:07 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357275.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:17:18 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 23:17:18 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16908A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:19:13 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:20:59 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:21:13 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:23:08 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:27:56 the standard is constantly evolving 23:28:27 at the zero rate? 23:32:38 scottmaccal [n=scott@pool-71-173-70-156.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:52 still, ALPHA-CHAR-P is great, it includes any man-made character and not just A-Z 23:33:04 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Success] 23:33:06 of course thanks go to sbcl devs, not to ansi 23:33:18 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:34:29 are there non man-made characters? 23:35:07 Adam is a non-made character 23:35:18 luis: there are some Skynet-made characters 23:35:23 non man-made 23:35:38 -!- GreatPatham [n=dan@c-24-19-169-87.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:36:13 blasphemy, SBCL says ADAM is not a character at all! 23:36:34 bad character development 23:37:02 dan____ [n=dan@c-24-19-169-87.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:29 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:38:41 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:40:56 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:43:24 -!- ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 23:43:43 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:43:45 Does Hunchentoot handle long-hanging GETs gracefully? 23:43:54 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:44:26 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-119.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:46:25 I am trying to implement a high performance processing system in lisp. I expect it to make use of a large quantity of lists. In order to promote greater speed, I would like it if there were some way to ensure that the cons cells were placed in sequentially allocated memory. Is controlling this a possibility? 23:47:06 uh oh, why use lists? 23:47:19 dan____: sure, don't use lists. 23:47:34 For flexibility, so that data can be added conveniently on the fly 23:47:43 and sequentially allocated? 23:47:48 doesn't combine 23:48:04 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-99-189-162-6.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:12 I am also considering trading some of that flexibility for speed and reduced memory footprint by using array 23:49:01 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:49:03 gigamonkey: does it still spawn a thread per request? 23:49:12 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:49:16 Headcrab [n=ThomasH@d142-179-29-162.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:00 stassats: I understand your point about about the mutual incompatibility of these two goals. I am happy if I can ensure the sequential nature of the cons allocation at startup, and accept non-sequential additions later. 23:50:53 A large amount of data is to be loaded when the application starts, and changes will be much smaller 23:50:59 dan____: a lot of the type the conses will indeed be allocated sequentially 23:51:00 Help! 11 nested errors. SB-KERNEL:*MAXIMUM-ERROR-DEPTH* exceeded. 23:51:08 any ideas? i was using SLDB as usual... 23:51:13 i don't have SLDB buffers open 23:51:27 dan____: also, the GC tries to lay them out sequentially when copying 23:51:27 weirdo: error while displaying error? 23:51:35 oh 23:51:41 -!- wbraun [n=chatzill@p5B2042B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:51:41 dan____: I'm talking about SBCL. 23:51:42 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@sjc-static-208.57.178.24.mpowercom.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:51:45 weirdo: like malformed condition? 23:51:56 dan____: On SBCL, you can expect a thread's data to be mostly allocated linearly (since allocation is just a pointer bump until the allocation region is full), and the GC will copy lists in linear order (wrt the cdr). 23:51:56 s/type/time 23:52:21 weirdo: or error in sbcl/slime itself 23:52:33 it doesn't happen anymore 23:52:59 pkhuong: Thanks, that is encouraging. I will also consider the array option. 23:53:55 If you worry about that sort of thing, you most probably don't want cons lists. You're wasting half of your bandwidth on CDRs. 23:54:15 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:54:28 cdr-coding? 23:54:29 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:55:01 Yes, I have been thinking about that 23:55:10 weirdo pasted "yay, tokenization!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/85102 23:55:20 out of principle i don't use regexes 23:56:05 cdr-coding on a modern system is a frightening idea. 23:56:15 why ? 23:57:01 http://www.faqs.org/faqs/lisp-faq/part2/section-9.html 23:57:18 I think I may focus on using a number of arrays, rather than lists. I had similar functionality that I wrote earlier in C using linked lists. But, I think maybe I need to take a step back from it and reconsider 23:58:23 you can always abstract your data structures and change when needed 23:59:29 hmm so on lispms lists looked like vectors? 23:59:32 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:59:46 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:59:54 except that modifying these lists probably sucked