00:00:26 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:00:55 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-214-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:01:14 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-214-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:34 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:32 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-28-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:23 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:28 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 00:05:00 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:09:02 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:15:17 Riastrad1 [n=rias@pool-141-154-207-110.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:05 Pepe__ [n=ppjet@78.113.16.15] has joined #lisp 00:19:05 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:20:04 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-34-164.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:20:07 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 00:22:41 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:25:06 moocow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 00:25:21 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:26:50 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-208-150.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:28:43 commmmodo [n=commmmod@166.205.131.91] has joined #lisp 00:28:59 fvw [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.77] has joined #lisp 00:31:28 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@166.205.131.91] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:32:03 i know proper list - so now if we have '(1 2 3 4) then when we cdr-down the list - null will stop at "nil" a proper list and atom will stop at "4" but both stop at "nil'! why so? 00:32:38 it's not a dotted list but still 00:32:51 If it's not a dotted list, then it's a proper list, and ends with nil. 00:33:15 What do you mean by "atom will stop at 4", anyway? 00:33:19 -!- moocow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:33:59 i tried (func '(1 2 3 4 (cons '5 '6)) but still it ends with a nil 00:34:17 when i try atom 00:35:16 First of all, The entire expression (cons '5 '6) is quoted, and second of all, the entire list expression is still a proper list. After '(cons '5 '6), comes NIL. 00:36:12 '(a b) is the same thing as '(a b . nil) 00:38:45 oh i should have tried this: (func (cons '4 '5)) now atom stops at 5 and null report an cdr error 00:40:16 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-216-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:40:43 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:41:09 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.115.255.187] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:42:55 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:43:19 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:11 -!- Pepe__ is now known as Pepe_ 00:47:42 Bigshot_: numbers evaluate to themselves... 00:49:20 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:49:32 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 00:50:29 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-127-60.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:51:16 -nil- pasted "what's the use of this recursive function?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83080 00:54:29 klepparii [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:55:00 looks like an example of why docstrings are always a good idea 00:55:38 docstrings? 00:55:51 documentation? 00:56:00 docstrings. 00:56:08 what's that 00:56:33 (defun foo (x) "adds x to itself" (+ x x)) 00:57:10 "adds x to itself" is a docstring (of questionable quality, but so be it) 00:57:12 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.77] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:57:18 (documentation 'foo 'function) => "adds x to itself" 00:57:40 piso: can you figure out what that recursive function is good for? 00:57:46 no 00:57:56 hi piso! 00:58:02 hi kpreid! 00:58:08 -!- jyujin_ [n=mdeining@82.113.121.123] has quit [] 00:59:01 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:01:32 -!- lambda-avenger [n=roman@adsl-63-197-150-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 01:04:52 -!- klepparii [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:04:52 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:07:35 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-116-111.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 01:08:41 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:49 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 01:09:13 klepparii [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 01:15:26 -!- ajhager [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["A way a lone a last a loved a long the..."] 01:16:48 ajhager [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:21 serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-159-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:19:44 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 01:20:21 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-29-4.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:24:52 so is there a better (ie: lispier?) way to do an event driven parser? 01:25:32 EVP = readlines with big tree of if's to figure out where in a file they are 01:25:41 better than what? 01:25:47 big tree o ifs 01:25:59 case, cond 01:26:20 dispatch table 01:26:39 for instance, in PERL (muahaha) i'd normally run a while loop til EOF, and pass the result into a series of regexps.... 01:26:56 any lisp examples you can think of? 01:27:27 READ, in the implementation of your choice 01:30:33 i'm still googling and reading, i figured this was a good place to ask. everyone once in a while, you strike gold "yeah! this guy wrote a blog about exactly that! heres a link" etc. 01:31:37 what I meant was, the Lisp function READ is more or less an event driven parser 01:33:39 omg, epiphany time. i can do inline recursion with lambda instead of chains of if's and maintaining state. lisp rocks! 01:34:08 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:34:09 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-236-244.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:34:24 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-25-4.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:35:30 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["games"] 01:36:55 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:12 -!- serichse1 is now known as serichsen 01:37:37 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-71-56-34-130.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:38:49 kroger [n=user@adsl-76-204-193-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:46 so if it's not a dotted list then `null' and `atom' are basically same; is that correct? 01:41:13 in a sentinel sense, yes 01:41:25 i.e., when you want to find the end of a list 01:43:13 so when there is a dotted list and one is using "null" then one better use endp? so null goes with endp correct? and atom is good for both dotted and proper list? 01:43:43 in practice, dotted lists are rather rare 01:44:17 (documentation 'endp 'function) 01:44:18 if you're writing your own code, it's usually better to avoid them (unless you know what you're doing) 01:44:19 endp raises an error if used on a dotted list. 01:44:39 dotted lists fall under the "premature optimization" evil 01:45:08 dlowe: I rather put them under the "leaky abstraction" evil 01:45:42 I think of them as a "make things harder to read" evil 01:45:45 serichsen: what abstraction? 01:45:58 uniform access to the elements of the list 01:46:10 Quetzalcoatl_: my book says endp is true of nil, but false of conses (dotted list)? 01:46:34 Bigshot_: experiment at the repl! 01:46:35 piso: dotted lists? 01:46:41 yeah 01:46:43 you mean alists? 01:46:45 or what? 01:47:08 it seems like Bigshot_ is concerned with traversing dotted lists, not with using alists 01:47:12 Bigshot_: The docstring in SBCL says it returns true for NIL, false for CONS, and raises an error for any other type of object. 01:47:16 Ralith: a dotted list is something like (a b c . d) 01:47:17 *shrug* dotted lists are pretty uninteresting to me. I wouldn't miss them if they were elided entirely from the language 01:47:30 serichsen: ah. That sounds very much like massively premature optimization. 01:48:18 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:48:23 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E746.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:48:31 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:28 Bigshot_, (not (consp object)) would return T at the end of both proper and dotted lists. 01:50:21 I actually don't like that premature optimization quote. It stresses the wrong thing, resp. is easily misinterpreted. 01:50:52 Quetzalcoatl_: that seems the same as (atom object) to me 01:52:03 So what problem is Bigshot_ having? 01:52:09 -nil- pasted "use of null/atom i don't get it" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83081 01:52:53 why is there null orig and atom orig 01:53:00 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-244.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 01:53:46 someone seems to have an internal four character limitation for names 01:54:32 it's about original list and reversed list 01:54:35 ugh 01:54:36 (null orig) takes care of the case where orig is nil; (atom orig) then takes care of the case where orig is not nil but is an atom 01:54:46 who wrote that? 01:55:18 a scheme programmer 01:55:43 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:51 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:30 piso: but both atom and null orig will return `t' when the orig is nil then what's the use of null? 01:57:29 It expresses your intentions more clearly, for one. 01:57:33 null ONLY returns t if its argument is nil; atom returns t if its argument is not a cons 01:57:50 (null 42) => nil 01:57:55 *Captain_Thunder* fails 01:57:56 (atom 42) => t 01:58:41 the first case in the cond clause is for nil only; the second case is for non-nil atoms 01:59:10 ah i see thanks 02:00:16 hmm 02:00:47 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:00:49 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@24.91.154.83] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:01:11 this is interesting. why does REDUCE call LENGTH? I tried (reduce #'+ '(1 2 . 3)) 02:01:22 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 02:01:57 reduce is specified to work on proper sequences only 02:02:05 yes 02:02:31 so (reduce #'+ '(1 2 . 3)) is illegal code 02:02:37 yes, I know 02:03:00 I wanted to see the error message 02:03:18 And now I am wondering why the error is signaled by LENGTH 02:03:20 it's possible REDUCE calls LENGTH to make sure it's working on a proper sequence 02:03:36 what implementation are you using? 02:03:43 SBCL 02:05:19 calling length means traversing the list again 02:06:20 I would expect it to go through the list and complain only at the end 02:07:09 if you have an expensive operation, doing all the work only to bail would be wasteful too. 02:07:46 perhaps there should be a restart "treat last cdr as nil" 02:07:57 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:00 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:10:18 hmm... I don't see in the source where REDUCE is calling LENGTH 02:10:49 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:12:28 -!- ravster [n=user@67.204.25.27] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:13:36 I think LENGTH is called when you omit the :end keyword argument, since REDUCE uses LIST-REDUCE which needs and END parameter 02:13:51 an END parameter, even 02:14:11 the compiler probably optimizes all of that out, but not at the repl 02:15:18 dys` [n=andreas@p5B316CD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:03 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.219.49] has joined #lisp 02:16:36 g'day 02:16:59 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@192.117.29.141.static.012.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:18:39 -!- ajhager [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:21:53 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.232] has joined #lisp 02:24:42 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@imaxeson.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:27:07 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:28:31 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2CD5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:28:51 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-176-53-236.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:20 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:29:50 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:30:06 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B31756B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:30:06 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:46 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:31:32 Greetings schme 02:31:43 oi tmh 02:32:32 schme: It wouldn't happen to be about 12:31 on Monday your time, would it? 02:34:44 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:35:36 -!- Riastrad1 is now known as Riastradh 02:43:21 WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has joined #lisp 02:48:55 ajhager [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:59 tmh: No. It's about 04:51. 02:52:33 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [n=godless@cpe-71-72-235-91.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:54:03 Is that New Zealand? 02:54:55 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 02:55:47 I wish. :) Sweden. 02:56:36 the other 04:51 ;) 02:56:53 schme: Oh, yeah, 04:51. I've got a little contract with some guys in Sydney, Australia and it's been a challenge staying on schedule. 02:57:02 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.219.49] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:57:07 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bb08d0abd8919adc] has joined #lisp 02:57:56 schme: It is very easy to lose an entire day to communication because of the time difference. 02:58:16 Wow. That must be odd for timelines. 02:59:34 So, right now, it's about 1pm Monday in Sydney and 10pm Sunday night my time. I've had to start spending my Sunday evenings emailing just so we get a decent start to the week. 03:02:14 I guess it's not so odd when one gets used to it. Sounds like a bit of a ... hmm.. strange thing to get into at first :) 03:05:31 I think I will get back to bed here. :) 03:05:57 qbg [n=chatzill@65-73-93-20.dsl1.mnd.mn.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:24 Hah, enjoy! 03:11:13 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:12:34 dfarm [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:23 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-128-206.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:16:22 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:18:52 -!- dfarm [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:19:13 is there a syntax highlighting file i can use with dandelion plugin in eclipse? 03:19:26 in `lisp editor' 03:20:55 -!- klepparii [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:22:15 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:22:44 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-64-42.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:22:47 -!- beach` is now known as beach 03:23:54 Good morning. 03:24:10 Hello. 03:25:48 Bigshot_: Any particular reason for not using SLIME? 03:26:40 He likes/is comfortable with Eclipse and plugin for lisp, what's it called? 03:27:08 Cusp 03:27:09 cusp? 03:27:26 i don't want sbcl i want clisp :) 03:27:30 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:41 Is Cusp SBCL specific? 03:27:42 Bigshot_: that's an orthogonal decision. 03:27:50 slime doesn't highlight the code properly that's what irritates me :) 03:28:07 *tmh* is confused 03:28:14 tmh, kind of. Other lisps aren't explicitly supported, at least 03:28:20 Bigshot_: Oh, and Eclipse does? 03:28:25 it's like writing an essay instead of coding 03:28:50 Bigshot_: Wait, that's not a slime problem, that's an emacs configuration issue. 03:29:02 yeah font-lock 03:29:43 paste.lisp.org highlights the code nicely 03:29:58 I have all kinds o' pretty colors in my lisp code with slime. 03:30:10 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-130.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:30:37 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-130.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 03:30:41 does seq, evenp etc get highlighted in your code tmh? 03:30:59 *tmh* looks 03:32:06 Hmm, evenp does not, I'm not familiar with seq, is this Common Lisp? 03:32:11 setq 03:32:56 Oh, setf doesn't either. Honestly, I never noticed, though. I guess I was too dazzled by the stuff that was colored. 03:34:34 tmh: now you noticed don't you want them highlighted? hehe 03:35:07 refusing to use slime because of a subtlety of syntax hilighting... 03:35:30 sure, it'd be kinda neat if all functions were hilighted, but completely unnecessary. 03:35:56 paste.lisp highlights it why not lisp-mode in emacs? 03:36:08 Bigshot_: Now I'm just curious as to why they're not. I just noticed MAPCAR is not. What would be nice would be if LOOP keywords were highlighted. 03:36:21 now *that* would be handy 03:36:40 for me, loop is a bit of a guessing game. 03:36:49 (albeit a remarkably successful one) 03:38:35 minion: tell Bigshot_ about redshank 03:38:36 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``redshank''. 03:38:43 Grrr 03:38:57 demmel [n=demmel@p5B0C313B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:39:05 Bigshot_: Take a look at Redshank and see if it helps -> http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/redshank/ 03:39:42 Or not 03:40:02 I thought it would improve the highlighting, but now that I look at the screencast, it doesn't appear to . 03:40:43 -!- zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:41:30 I need to go to bed, otherwise, I start digging into emacs syntax highlighting. I can't imagine it's too difficult to get more things highlighted. 03:42:03 i scorched google for that 03:42:04 hehe 03:43:39 Bigshot_: You could do this -> http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/redshank/ 03:43:49 Uh, wrong link 03:43:53 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AddKeywords 03:44:01 yeah it's too time consuming 03:44:06 *tmh* needs to go to bed. 03:44:11 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has left #lisp 03:44:19 good night 03:55:03 -!- kroger [n=user@adsl-76-204-193-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:56:58 demmel_ [n=demmel@p5B0C104B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:01:19 jan247 [n=jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:07 wow, PAIP is really good reading. 04:11:15 how is lispIDE? 04:12:03 -!- demmel [n=demmel@p5B0C313B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:13:11 is there a better way to browse slime repl history? 04:13:51 better than what? 04:17:13 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-129-180.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:18 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:17:53 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:22:18 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22:54 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 04:23:09 this is what lispIDE readme file says: If you want commandline parameters for your Lisp 04:23:11 you need to create a .bat or .cmd file and 04:23:12 select that as your Lisp executable. 04:23:30 what should i write in .bat file? 04:23:55 Bigshot_: probably the name of your Lisp system followed by the parameters you would like. 04:24:21 i do see repl open at the bottom 04:24:38 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bb08d0abd8919adc] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:24:40 beach: can you give me an example? 04:25:26 Bigshot_: presumably, you want to do that because you want command line parameters. I don't know why you would want that or which ones you would want. If you don't want any, I see no reason to use this possibility. 04:25:45 Bigshot_: And no, this looks like Windows and I don't know any Windows. 04:30:14 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-0c301c121a71bc28] has joined #lisp 04:30:18 k nvm 04:31:26 Bigshot_: If this were Linux + SBCL and you wanted a different .core file (say clim.core), you could create a shell file containing "sbcl --core /usr/local/lib/sbcl/clim.core" 04:35:18 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 04:35:52 hi guys do you know what happened to the patch for sbcl's computed gotos? 04:36:40 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-0c301c121a71bc28] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:45:00 -!- girzel [n=user@63.226.249.211] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:45:54 what's the map function to iterate over the cons cells of a list? 04:47:16 clhs maplist 04:47:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 04:47:22 ltriant_ [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:47:48 ty 04:48:08 np 04:48:21 tic_ [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 04:48:37 those map functions are very useful, it's good to know where they are in the spec (or have specbot...) 04:48:50 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-176-53-236.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:50:24 this looks strange; http://paste.lisp.org/display/83085 04:50:33 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:51:00 ..the thingy generating style-warnings is too eager there, i think 04:51:12 -!- ltriant_ is now known as ltriant 04:51:40 -!- tic_ [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:52:15 well, it's a bit silly to have zero forms in a flet 04:52:28 er, whoops, misread 04:52:52 lnostdal, I think that specific warning is intended to catch when people really do mean to have declare forms, but put declaim forms. 04:52:56 I think it's a perfectly fine warning 04:53:02 maybe put the declaim in a progn? 04:53:16 (or ignore the warning) 04:53:32 but anyway, declaim really only makes sense as a top-level form 04:53:34 so perhaps you ought to use proclaim instead 04:53:48 hm, no .. had i said (declaim (inline hello)) it would make sense, but it triggers for the "next" declaration also, Adlai 04:53:53 er...NEVER MIND! flet preserves toplevelness 04:54:06 er..., no, that's only macrolet. sheesh 04:54:10 I shall shut up now. 04:54:18 it's a huge language, kpreid .. haha :) 04:54:35 lnostdal, you can have multiple declare forms in a binding form 04:55:17 ie, you could have (declare (special ...)) (declare (ignore ...)) (declare (fixnum ...)) rather than (declare (special ...) (ignore ...) (fixnum ...)) 04:55:30 now the second form is better imo, but the spec allows both. 04:55:55 yesyes 04:55:57 i know that 04:55:59 heh :) 04:56:36 I guess it assumes that declare is more common 04:56:45 hey lnostdal put the declaim above the flet and that should fix it? 04:56:57 ilitirit, yes 04:57:26 ilitirit, but i think that's unreasonable .. if i'm not missing some obscure CL detail wrt. flet and toplevelness etc. 04:58:13 flet means that you are no longer in a toplevel form, and defun's not in a toplevel form have slightly different behaviour 04:59:35 yeah, the note on s_flet_.htm only mentions macrolet wrt. toplevelnes as far as i can see 05:01:20 in fact the differences wrt defun toplevelness are not in the spec, and only affect the implementation 05:01:33 "An implementation may choose to store information about 05:01:33 the function for the purposes of compile-time error-checking (such as 05:01:33 checking the number of arguments on calls), or to enable the function 05:01:33 to be expanded inline." 05:01:58 (whoops sorry, it was much longer than i thought and now i'm making it worse) 05:02:42 srcerer_ [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 05:11:31 think i'll just try going for proclaim .. now i've forgotten why i use declaim vs. proclaim and whatnot .. *sigh* 05:12:05 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-b214f4e7980c77cc] has joined #lisp 05:14:27 -!- qbg [n=chatzill@65-73-93-20.dsl1.mnd.mn.frontiernet.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5/20090624025744]"] 05:14:32 lnostdal, the declaim is like a proclaim wrapped in eval-when 05:14:51 i think that as you have lost the toplevelness, you should be fine with proclaim 05:15:06 Muld [i=wr23@88-196-38-227-dsl.noe.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 05:19:46 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Success] 05:19:57 oh, proclaim does not execute at :compile-toplevel time 05:21:46 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 05:23:58 and (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (proclaim ..etc..)) does not actually work 05:24:10 when inside a flet .. it seems 05:24:20 it'll happily allow me to da (test "fail") 05:24:23 do* 05:24:26 post code! 05:24:29 sec. 05:24:52 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 05:25:08 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-b214f4e7980c77cc] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:26:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/83085#1 05:28:21 (safety 3) by the way 05:28:26 (speed 0) 05:28:49 *lnostdal* doesn't know what's reasonable 05:29:35 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-243.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:30:31 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-65-146.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:31:10 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:31:35 lnostdal, that's pretty interesting. Note that if you load the file twice then you do get the error with (test "fail") 05:32:07 is there a format directive for printing a number as a month? 05:33:54 also a complete list of format directives would be quite nice if there is one, I'm finding the CLHS to be very user unfriendly 05:34:24 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-128-206.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:34:27 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:34:46 lnostdal, (1) your proclaim is now very like a declaim, (2) you can avoid the issue by moving the eval-when around the flet 05:35:47 this reminds me of other "bootstrapping" problems i've seen wrt. types and declarations in SBCL .. (e.g., CLOS & DEFCLASS -- apparently well known in that context) 05:37:06 the exact time you give declarations is surprisingly important, but i don't understand why your example isn't giving them at the exact right time 05:38:36 meh .. we should just drop the entire "file" and pathname and filesystem thing .. store everything lisp code + declarations etc. in a DB :) 05:39:08 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-36-1-44.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:39:17 ok, i'll just find some workaround .. perhaps i should look post something to sbcl's launchpad bug-page 05:39:24 -look 05:40:40 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:41:08 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-3f24c46f708a5e9d] has joined #lisp 05:41:13 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:41:53 eval-when + proclaim @ the toplevel before the flet works well, i think .. (i.e., don't have to wrap the entire flet) 05:42:18 yes, that is the same as my first suggestion (declaim at the toplevel before the flet) 05:42:44 i don't understand why loading your last example twice fixes it 05:42:45 ahyeah .. heh :) 05:46:01 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-3f24c46f708a5e9d] has quit [Client Quit] 05:48:35 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-65-146.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:50:30 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:51:30 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:52:14 hey drafael there's no builtin way to print months i think -- go ahead and make a nice format cheatsheet, that would be handy 05:52:21 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 05:52:49 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest60403 05:57:35 Quadre` [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #lisp 05:57:40 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:04:23 -!- Bigshot_ [n=BIG_SHOT@CPE002129abc864-CM001ac35cd4d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:05:22 ilitirit: well, damn. I've resorted to parse-integer and a list anyway, but thanks for the response. 06:06:06 -!- Guest60403 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 06:06:44 lambda-avenger [n=roman@adsl-63-197-150-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:05 ilitirit, http://paste.lisp.org/display/83085#2 .. here's the thing i've been seeing wrt. defclass .. i'm not sure if it is exactly related, but it seems similar .. compiling twice doesn't have the same effect as with the flet example however 06:11:08 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:18:54 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:01 holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 06:21:39 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:22:46 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:23:48 _8david [n=user@77-22-106-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 06:23:49 _8david` [n=user@77-22-106-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 06:24:28 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:24:44 ASau [n=user@host175-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:26:49 artagnon [n=artagnon@unaffiliated/artagnon] has joined #lisp 06:27:16 -!- artagnon [n=artagnon@unaffiliated/artagnon] has left #lisp 06:28:50 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-c61ec4d983a00618] has joined #lisp 06:30:44 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:31:27 -!- _8david` [n=user@77-22-106-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:31:54 -!- _8david [n=user@77-22-106-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:32:05 _8david [n=user@77-22-106-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 06:32:29 pradyus [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-f3fa900e42af4780] has joined #lisp 06:32:46 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-c61ec4d983a00618] has quit [Client Quit] 06:35:49 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:36:10 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:37:15 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:44:49 -!- pradyus [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-f3fa900e42af4780] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:52:04 lnostdal, according to my reading of the spec i'm not sure that the find-class not working at compile-time is against it 06:53:10 yeah, do you mean the . before "The compiler must make the class _definition_ available..." ..? 06:53:21 -!- demmel_ [n=demmel@p5B0C104B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 06:53:25 by analogy with 3.2.3.1.1 Processing of Defining Macros 06:53:30 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 06:54:17 i think it only has to make the find-class work after compile time is finished 06:54:42 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-21-105.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:54:47 frozsyn [n=FrozSyn@195.83.212.223] has joined #lisp 06:55:11 ok, i gotta read up on that .. need a quick breakfast first 06:55:45 *ilitirit* 's not sure there's much to be gained from figuring these painful compile-time shenanigans out 06:57:04 i get regularly bitten by defvar's noticing at compile time but not binding until load-time semantics 06:58:44 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 06:58:50 -!- _8david [n=user@77-22-106-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 06:59:27 ShadowChild [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 06:59:55 -!- schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 07:00:35 good morning 07:02:43 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:03:15 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-176-53-236.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:16 elderK [n=elderK@222-152-95-210.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:03:29 Moin people. 07:03:39 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.232] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:05:18 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-243.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:05:44 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:05:57 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 07:08:55 why does SBCL just not have docstrings for some funcs? 07:11:57 'cause no one wrote one 07:12:51 or you built without :sb-doc in *features* :) 07:13:46 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:15:25 addled [n=adlirc@209.20.68.236] has joined #lisp 07:15:52 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:17:15 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 07:18:27 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:18:41 not even sure how you'd notice that, short of reading the code. 07:22:16 Ralith: I recall nikodemus saying that there's a policy of not having docstrings for internal functions, but comments instead 07:23:48 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:23:49 sounds sensible. doesn't create false impression of commitment and doesn't bloat the image needlessly 07:23:50 fe[nl]ix: internal? like 'find'? 07:24:20 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:24:36 Ralith: certainly not 07:24:58 'cuz unless I'm using 'documentation' wrong, find has no docstring. 07:25:01 heh. likewise for SEARCH 07:25:07 CL-USER> (documentation 'find 'function) 07:25:07 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:25:08 NIL 07:27:16 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 07:27:51 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 07:27:52 I think it's only fair for a Lisp implementation to not have docstrings for functions from the CL package, because the authoritative reference can only be the standard. (And the text from the standard is available thanks to the HyperSpec.) 07:27:58 spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 07:28:02 Good morning 07:28:36 Ralith, assign the slime-hyperspec-lookup command to a shortcut key and go :) 07:29:02 (..after setting common-lisp-hyperspec-root to some valid url/path..) 07:29:15 can it do that inline with little to no load time? 07:29:21 I don't want to use an external browser. 07:29:44 emacs-w3m, local hyperspec 07:29:46 Ralith:Sure install the hyperspec package 07:29:50 with default settings, it opens the spec up in hyperspec. 07:30:08 i always have firefox around in the background, so there is no "starting" 07:30:09 There's an info-fied version of the document 07:30:19 oo, cool 07:30:22 package? 07:30:25 where do I get it? 07:30:51 What? 07:30:58 Anyway, google is your friend 07:31:23 there's nothing about the hyperspec in my package manager. 07:32:29 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:32:59 dpans2texi.el converts the TeX sources of the draft ANSI Common Lisp standard (dpANS) to Texinfo. 07:33:02 that sounds even more useful. 07:33:59 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 07:37:42 wtf? 07:37:48 C-i gets interpreted as tab :| 07:38:04 Isn't C-i exactly TAB? 07:38:22 it's supposed to be an emacs command. 07:38:52 maybe emacs needs to be restarted first or something 07:38:57 yes, self-insert-char 07:39:16 you mean C-h i, surely? 07:41:12 hi spiaggia 07:43:16 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-68-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:44:00 cmm: that's not what http://www.phys.au.dk/~harder/dpans.html said 07:44:12 C-h i just brings up the main info page. 07:46:03 -!- elderK [n=elderK@222-152-95-210.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [] 07:46:39 C-h S RET seems to work, though 07:46:41 ah, sorry. never tried that one, happy with emacs-w3m here 07:46:44 -!- addled [n=adlirc@209.20.68.236] has left #lisp 07:50:41 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:51:56 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-190.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:52:17 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.232] has joined #lisp 07:53:30 Ralith: emacs can distinghish C-i from TAB only when it doesn't run in a xterm. 07:53:40 or terminal in general 07:53:51 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:54:13 pjb: well, it's not in an xterm or a terminal of any generality... 07:54:50 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:54:51 Then, in a window manager, it should be able to distinguish them. Try C-h k TAB vs. C-h k C-i 07:55:12 Perhaps they're bound to the same command. 07:59:48 mega1 [n=mega@pool-01929.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:00:09 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:04:13 simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:04:41 Cynner [n=plinka@87.110.241.131] has joined #lisp 08:04:52 -!- Cynner [n=plinka@87.110.241.131] has quit [K-lined] 08:06:26 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@imaxeson.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:58 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.113.16.15] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:20:43 vy [n=user@nbvyazici.cs.bilkent.edu.tr] has joined #lisp 08:20:59 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-231.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 08:21:47 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ac4aef94f4dbddb8] has joined #lisp 08:24:43 -!- proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:31:26 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@imaxeson.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:31:58 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ac4aef94f4dbddb8] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:33:33 jao [n=jao@179.Red-83-57-4.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:05 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-158-160.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:38:02 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 08:41:21 ejs [n=eugen@38-0-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:55 ejs0 [n=eugen@38-0-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:06 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 08:47:44 free_thinker [n=willijar@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 08:47:57 demmel [n=demmel@e148.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 08:48:00 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-190.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:48:59 Reav__ [n=Reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 08:49:03 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-38.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:49:04 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 08:49:55 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:50:28 domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has joined #lisp 09:02:41 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 09:03:07 -!- ejs [n=eugen@38-0-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:05:10 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:05:43 clhs eval-when 09:05:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_eval_w.htm 09:10:51 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 09:10:54 demmel: What are you trying to do? eval-when is a beast 09:11:51 tcr: just looking at the spec. I'm not trying to do anything ;) . Just figured out you can whisper the bot aswell :) 09:13:49 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has quit [] 09:14:19 -!- p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-01b63da73d40ceec] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:14:27 clhs 3.2.3.1 09:14:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bca.htm 09:17:52 The full semantics of eval-when are not easy to understand, and I always forget them the other day again 09:20:06 demmel: for more privacy: /msg specbot clhs eval-when 09:20:24 p_l [i=plasek@89.248.166.201] has joined #lisp 09:20:36 matimago: thanks. 09:21:45 -!- ejs0 [n=eugen@38-0-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:22:35 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.243.17] has quit ["leaving"] 09:22:57 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:25:04 -!- demmel [n=demmel@e148.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [] 09:27:26 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 09:27:32 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 09:30:57 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.232] has quit ["leaving"] 09:36:02 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:36:52 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:37:28 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-4fe070d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["bbl"] 09:38:48 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:43:32 kahmalo [n=Kalle@2002:5517:2040:1:230:84ff:fe3e:cfef] has joined #lisp 09:43:40 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.242.116] has joined #lisp 09:44:14 I seem to be hitting SBCL bug 399 in SBCL 0.9.5.50. Is there some simple patch I could apply or do I have to upgrade? 09:44:14 okflo [n=user@91-115-90-72.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:45:52 0.9.5.50? Wow 09:46:02 tcr: I love that (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel) forces NCT on the code it contains whereas (:c.. :l.. :execute) doesn't, even at the toplevel 09:47:49 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:48:41 S11001001: um, how do you get that? 09:49:27 xan [n=xan@141.Red-79-150-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:34 oops, sorry 09:50:46 that's (:l...) vs (:l... :e...) 09:50:58 wouldn't make sense for :c... to put it in NCT 09:51:09 um, but both of those have the "new mode" not-compile-time 09:51:11 anyway this is fig 3-7 in 3.2.3.1 09:51:20 yes, I know, and I think you're reading it completely wrong 09:51:35 when you're in CTT, (:l... :e...) will not switch to NCT 09:51:43 ok, right 09:51:44 whereas (:l...) *will* switch to NCT 09:52:03 Sikander [n=soemraws@wirenat-eld.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #lisp 09:52:09 right, and that makes at least some sense to me 09:52:16 not to me 09:52:26 unless the meaning of "top level" is different between compile- and load-time 09:52:47 at top level, you are in NCT mode 09:52:52 sure 09:53:05 so, to get into CTT, you need an (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) ...) 09:53:09 indeed 09:53:51 oh, hm. I thought I could explain the behaviour, but actually I can't 09:54:28 kahmalo: ... I'd recommend upgrade. 09:54:56 oh, yes, I can 09:57:18 (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (eval-when (:load-toplevel :execute) ...)) is approximately the same as (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (eval-when (:load-toplevel) ...) (eval-when (:execute) ...)) 09:57:36 modulo the usual double-macroexpansions / side-effect worries 09:57:54 I think that's all the table is saying 09:58:55 except that (:c) is not quite the same as (:c :l :e) during compile-time, in that for the latter, it is specified that contained forms are processed as top-level forms. The same is true of (:l) and (:l :e) and only those combinations 09:59:13 xan_ [n=xan@163.Red-79-150-220.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:15 demmel [n=demmel@d189.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 10:00:41 as such, by applying the "Process" rule recursively, in (eval-when (:c :l :e) (eval-when (:l) foo)), both eval-when and foo are top-level forms 10:00:52 *eval-whens 10:00:59 S11001001: right, (:c) is not the same as (:c :l :e). (:c :l :e) is the same as (:c) and (:l) and (:e) 10:01:41 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 10:03:15 When should I use defglobal, when defvar, and when defparameter? I guess defvar should be used when you don't want to rebind if it already exists, but other than that? Any pointers to URLs that explain this for the newbie? 10:03:26 kahmalo: 0.9 is several years old 10:03:41 Sikander: defglobal hurts those of us who don't use SBCL 10:03:48 Sikander: defglobal is not ANSI Common Lisp 10:03:52 please, think of the children of Clozure 10:04:15 tcr: I know. I've had difficulty building later versions. Now trying 0.9.6 in the hope that upgrading from that would be easier. 10:04:24 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-117.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:05:14 what difficulties? 10:05:27 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:05:31 kahmalo: You should try the RC candidate, and report any difficulties! 10:05:47 Sikander: for the newbie, the guide is "don't use defglobal, use defparameter always except when defining a variable which should be overriden in a user's configuration file or similar mechanism" 10:05:50 Sikander: think about whether your var should be reinited when you press C-c C-k in SLIME 10:05:57 tcr: sorry, I didn't save the build logs when I last tried. 10:06:09 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-38.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:06:16 are you building from an unsupported host or some wackily exotic platform, or what? 10:06:26 kahmalo: As the SBCL folks want to release a new major version, your problem will probably get more attention 10:06:29 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-176-53-236.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:07:00 -!- ShadowChild is now known as lukjad007 10:07:48 -!- lambda-avenger [n=roman@adsl-63-197-150-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 10:07:56 Xof, S11001001: thanks 10:08:14 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 10:08:53 Xof: This is an i686 compatible and I think the host was SBCL 0.9.50 when I last tried. I see I could download a prebuilt binary but I'd much prefer building things locally and before now I haven't had any real need to upgrade. 10:09:07 uh, 0.9.5.50 I mean. 10:09:32 i686 compatible, on Linux? In that case I can't understand why you're having any trouble building 10:10:15 Well as I wrote I don't have the log any more. I'll let this 0.9.6 build go through if possible and then try the newest version. 10:10:55 -!- xan [n=xan@141.Red-79-150-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:15:29 For the latest SBCL, which versions of SBCL are supported hosts? I don't see that in http://www.sbcl.org/porting.html 10:15:52 Bah, why is LISTEN specified so rigidly for interactive streams, only? 10:16:53 kahmalo: I would have said anything later than 0.9.2, but I might be misremembering something 10:17:16 it's possible that there's something more recent that breaks older hosts 10:17:50 (0.9.2 contained the inherited structure slot accessor fix) 10:17:57 Reav___ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:21:00 Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@78.113.16.15] has joined #lisp 10:21:36 oudeis [n=oudeis@IGLD-84-229-186-27.inter.net.il] has joined #lisp 10:21:49 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@86.50.69.116] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:22:04 Xof: As far as I can tell, there is nothing I need to do right now about Easychair, other than making sure I have an account, and that I remember my login and password, right? 10:22:05 Taggnostr [n=x@86.50.68.11] has joined #lisp 10:22:12 that's right 10:22:40 PC members don't have to do anything but exist until paper review time 10:22:51 but their existence is necessary for the Call for Contributions 10:23:22 I see. Well, I already had an account (because of ELS2009 and DLS2009). 10:23:27 -!- xan_ [n=xan@163.Red-79-150-220.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:23:37 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.242.116] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:24:18 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:26:20 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 10:26:40 hello. 10:26:47 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest68198 10:29:35 hello trebor_dki 10:30:51 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 10:33:28 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:34:58 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:36:08 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 10:39:34 elderK [n=zk@222-152-95-210.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:45:47 okflo` [n=user@91-115-89-91.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:45:47 in R, it can return a value like 7.61985302416053e-24 where lisp just return 0.0d0 10:47:02 aumontabe [n=abeaumon@167.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:13 -!- okflo` [n=user@91-115-89-91.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:49:04 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-158-160.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:49:15 leo2007: least-positive-double-float gives me 4.9406564584124654d-324 here 10:50:27 here too 10:50:33 -!- simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:50:40 but try this (exp 1d-20) 10:50:51 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 10:51:38 forget that example 10:51:42 let me find a better one 10:52:09 umontabea [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:20 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 10:52:41 splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:52:44 morning 10:53:37 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 10:53:44 did I miss the context of this question or should we just assume that "it" is unspecified here and came straight from a Stephen King novel? 10:53:46 hello 10:54:01 "and then It returned 0.0d0" -- Horror! 10:54:03 hehe 10:54:16 *lol* 10:54:35 "it came from the bowels of your cpu, and it is out to get you" 10:54:48 the nothingness... it terrifies 10:55:11 nothing serious 10:55:16 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:55:24 I am comparing numerical results between lisp and R 10:56:06 Do you know the exact value of noraml distribution CDF at -8 10:56:42 Ppjet6_ [n=ppjet@78.113.3.173] has joined #lisp 10:57:32 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:02 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:58:07 -!- domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:59:07 leo2007: 1/2 erfc(4\sqrt(2)) 11:01:21 -!- okflo [n=user@91-115-90-72.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:02:15 montabeau [n=abeaumon@68.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:21 if I've done everything right, that's approximately 1.1 \times 10^{-16} 11:02:38 -!- Ppjet6_ is now known as Pepe_ 11:03:22 I heard that according to physicists  is approximately 3. 11:03:23 Xof: I get 3.167e-5 11:04:30 -!- umontabea [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:05:29 free_thinker: I'm mildly sure that that's too big 11:06:05 jan247 [n=jvliwana@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 11:06:22 are you sure? This is what i get 6.106226635438361d-16 11:07:35 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.78.222] has joined #lisp 11:08:10 no, I'm not completely sure; that's why I said "if I've done everything right" 11:08:40 -!- aumontabe [n=abeaumon@167.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:09:02 -!- montabeau is now known as abeaumont 11:10:02 -!- jan247 [n=jvliwana@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Client Quit] 11:10:35 jan247 [n=jvliwana@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 11:10:57 ah, whoops, I am indeed out by a factor of 4\sqrt(2) 11:11:41 (plus higher-order terms in the asymptotic expansion) 11:11:45 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.232] has joined #lisp 11:13:52 -!- Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@78.113.16.15] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:14:20 -!- Reav___ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:15:01 xof: I am sure - 4 is not a good Q value. I have a common lisp implementation of erf and its inverse which your are welcome to have - it uses the same expansion as Matlab uses 11:15:09 exu0 [n=u@dslb-084-056-163-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:27 -!- exu0 [n=u@dslb-084-056-163-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 11:16:13 free_thinker: you are sure about what? I'm sure that the standard normal distribution function at z=-8 is a lot smaller than 3 \times 10^-5 11:17:24 xof: yes I am sure - maybe your argument is wrong - what is the specific problem? 11:17:39 again, _what_ are you sure about? 11:18:36 domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has joined #lisp 11:19:42 xof: that 1/2 erfc(4\sqrt(2))=3.167e-5 11:22:00 ok, well, both Octave and the asymptotic expansion at disagree with you 11:23:25 they could of course both be wrong 11:25:19 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 11:27:00 xof: in octave 0.5*erfc(4/sqrt(2))=3.1671e-05 11:27:19 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@IGLD-84-229-186-27.inter.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:27:38 yes, but that's dividing by the square root of 2 11:27:42 rather than multiplying 11:28:26 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@68.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:29:02 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:19 free_thinker: whats the p for q = -8 11:32:13 -!- jan247 [n=jvliwana@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 11:34:01 minion: sobol's sequence? 11:34:03 you speak nonsense 11:35:32 -!- Guest68198 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 11:42:21 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@167.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:30 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:42:44 HET2 [i=diman@128.131.95.22] has joined #lisp 11:43:19 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:45:37 cracki [n=cracki@42-064.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:46:45 daniel__ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:48:01 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 11:49:45 -!- demmel [n=demmel@d189.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [] 11:50:11 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:50:34 -!- JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:52:28 eaumontab [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:07 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:22 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:54:07 -!- domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:55:39 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:57:47 domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has joined #lisp 12:00:13 jmbr [n=jmbr@guest245.gti.ssr.upm.es] has joined #lisp 12:01:11 -!- domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has quit [Client Quit] 12:01:22 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:01:42 demmel [n=demmel@d079.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 12:02:29 aumontabe [n=abeaumon@167.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:03 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:31 -!- eaumontab [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:05:33 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@guest245.gti.ssr.upm.es] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:06:21 hi Fare 12:06:26 hi, fe[nl]ix 12:06:39 what's the current relationship between iolib and osicat? 12:06:48 none 12:07:00 ok 12:07:09 so iolib re-does it all? 12:07:14 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 12:07:47 Fare: kind of 12:08:31 I have uncommitted code to integrate the high-level part of osicat(directory walker, file utilities...) into iolib 12:08:51 really? 12:09:05 I hope the directory walker is not based on the bogus thing from PCLbook 12:09:05 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:12 luis: yes 12:09:12 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-72-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:15 What's the reason that a small part of sbcl is written in C? 12:09:24 Fare: no, it's the same from osicat 12:09:27 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@167.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:09:34 Ragnaroek [i=8f5df9e1@gateway/web/freenode/x-9a7f8fc60eaedf16] has joined #lisp 12:09:48 leo2007, because it's easier to deal with C than with N linkers and M assembly languages? 12:10:31 and O operating systems (though the number is dwindling) 12:11:44 fe[nl]ix: bah, why duplicate osicat in iolib? 12:12:05 C truly as portable assembly language 12:12:06 umontabea [n=abeaumon@176.Red-88-2-179.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:19 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-148-7-32.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:11 luis: circular dependencies 12:13:12 does it have any thing to do with the fact that the os is written in C? 12:13:55 leo2007, indirectly, through the fact that the OS *interface* is written in C 12:14:11 and the fact that the OS is in C also to not have to deal with M assembly languages 12:14:22 fe[nl]ix: meh, sounds doubtful. 12:14:34 S11001001, C is the not-quite-portable, not-quite-assembly language 12:14:49 -!- Quadre` is now known as Quadrescence 12:15:37 tell me guys, is there a lisp function to get a list of all the slots in a class ? 12:15:38 Fare: that doesn't sound like a complete explanation since SBCL has a an assembler, and FFI. 12:16:19 you could say as portable as an assembler could be, and as assembler as a portable could be 12:16:25 the SBCL FFI relies a lot on the C linker 12:16:28 Fare: thanks. I was confused by sbcl having to rely on a c compiler to build 12:17:36 and the code generator is so intertwinned with SBCL calling conventions that you'd still have to write a new compiler on top of these assemblers. 12:17:48 -!- umontabea is now known as abeaumont 12:18:17 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-72-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:18:39 leo2007, if you want to write a "low-level lisp" dialect on top of SBCL's assemblers, you might indeed get rid of the C part. But then you'd have to write the N dealing-with-linkers and M dealing-with-assemblers parts... 12:18:51 (or you could start with one of each) 12:19:12 (and at the end, what would you have that you didn't have before?) 12:19:23 street cred? 12:19:25 (maybe the ability to write the GC in Lisp) 12:19:48 Fare: people would stop whinging about it 12:21:09 leo2007, that said, if you're that good at writing compilers for low-level languages, you might want to do something else than a replacement of SBCL's C parts 12:22:53 luis: :depth-first vs :breadth-first is BOGUS in walk-directory 12:22:59 call them :before and :after 12:23:23 breadth first is something completely different, and independent from that 12:23:48 it would be queueing the files and directories to walk 12:24:02 what you're doing is ALWAYS depth-first, currently 12:24:05 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@x-132-204-254-109.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 12:24:24 fe[nl]ix, same here 12:24:37 Fare: same what ? 12:24:43 galdor: Try (find-all-symbols "CLASS-SLOTS"). SBCL puts it in the SB-MOP package AFAIK. Then perhaps SLOT-DEFINITION-NAME. 12:25:00 fe[nl]ix, same remark about walk-directory 12:25:26 kahmalo, galdor : use closer-mop 12:25:47 Fare: no, I have no intention to do that. Just curious about that part cause I have no C compiler on the system 12:26:17 what system is that? 12:26:26 note that you can cross-compile 12:26:56 pkhuong, so you're going the scheme way, you traitor? 12:27:24 ULTRAMAN [n=wr23@88-196-40-184-dsl.noe.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 12:27:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has quit ["Valete!"] 12:28:12 Fare: I am? 12:28:19 What's the difference between iso-8859-1 and latin-1? 12:28:35 -!- aumontabe [n=abeaumon@167.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:28:52 tcr: I believe they're synonyms. 12:28:59 pkhuong, there were rumors 12:29:16 tcr: it's spelled differently 12:29:51 tcr, more confusing is the lack of difference between iso-8859-15 and latin-9 -- IIRC 12:29:54 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 12:30:07 blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.28.224] has joined #lisp 12:31:47 -!- Muld [i=wr23@88-196-38-227-dsl.noe.estpak.ee] has quit [Success] 12:33:20 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 12:36:50 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-72-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:40:37 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:41:33 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@176.Red-88-2-179.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:42:28 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-199-164.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:42:59 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-214-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [""That's our secret... we kill you with kindness. What's your secret?""] 12:44:04 marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has joined #lisp 12:45:34 saikat [n=saikat@71.163.70.52] has joined #lisp 12:46:02 Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:47:14 -!- saikat [n=saikat@71.163.70.52] has quit [Client Quit] 12:49:31 -!- cracki [n=cracki@42-064.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:50:02 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 12:50:45 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:51:09 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 12:51:31 is-8859-15 contains the euro character, iso-8859-1 aka iso-latin 1 does not 12:54:38 yes, but iso-8859-15 is the same as latin-9 12:55:02 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 12:55:02 -!- schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:55:45 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:56:15 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:56:22 -!- elderK [n=zk@222-152-95-210.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:56:46 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 13:00:25 -!- demmel [n=demmel@d079.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [] 13:00:45 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C2CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:40 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has quit ["going to attempt to use the desktop/server PC as a wlan/router replacement .."] 13:05:22 LiamH [n=none@208.72.159.207] has joined #lisp 13:17:11 does it contain ķ ? 13:21:20 phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 13:22:56 p_l: No, it doesn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO-8859-15 13:23:17 fasta [n=a@217.109.160.5] has joined #lisp 13:23:28 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-135-165.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 13:23:54 tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p923e6b.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:24:34 Do you have a debugger which you can ask given a certain Lisp object, how that object came into existence? So, the complete reduction sequence leading to that object? It doesn't matter if one needs to restart the program to do this. 13:24:36 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:24:53 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 13:25:50 matimago: doesn't interest me then :D 13:26:02 saikat [n=saikat@71.163.70.52] has joined #lisp 13:26:20 fasta: No, do you a debugger for another language which supports this? 13:26:35 fasta: that seems like an EXTREMELY tall order :) 13:26:49 fasta: you could do that if you traced the whole execution 13:26:52 it's the sort of thing you could possibly track yourself if you needed it for clos objects 13:27:00 (an 'around' on make-instance, say) 13:27:07 tcr: there's a few "time-travelling" debuggers around. At least one for OCaml and one for Java, IIRC. 13:27:07 p_l: yes, I know how I could write something like that myself. 13:27:09 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:27:18 p_l: it's just that it takes more than a few hours to do so. 13:27:44 a "reduction sequence" is the complete execution trace of a program, given IO and other side-effects. 13:27:48 fasta: so far I don't know of any for lisp - there aren't many time-traveling debuggers (though they seem to get more popular) 13:28:41 fasta: If you only want to know where an object was created, it's not difficult 13:29:15 I retract that comment 13:29:48 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.232] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:29:48 I do have plans to hack sbcl not to make it difficult 13:30:01 -!- Pegazus [n=awefawe@host122.190-31-41.telecom.net.ar] has left #lisp 13:31:10 But can a time-travelling really answer such a question in a practical way? 13:31:36 If you see some obejct in your backtrace, how do you know how much you have to roll back to see its creation? 13:31:50 tcr: binary search. 13:32:27 cracki [n=cracki@42-064.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:33:10 tcr: tell me more about this hack :-) 13:33:36 jsnell: A &source-location lambda list parameter which gets the source-location of the call site 13:34:24 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 13:34:36 So you can have make-my-object which stores the source-location of its call-site into a slot of my-object 13:34:52 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:57 ah, ok. I was trying to figure out how fit that into make-instance 13:35:18 (well, originally I was thinking you were going to solve this for builtin types too :-) 13:36:23 I tried to install McCLIM, but got "debugger invoked on a TYPE-ERROR in thread. The value "flexichain" is not of type SYMBOL." 13:36:23 well make-instance could take a &source-location too, and an appropriate method specializing on source-location-mixin could do the right thing, or something on that line 13:37:07 attila_lendvai [n=ati@89.132.189.132] has joined #lisp 13:37:09 jsnell: I think it's pretty uninteresting for built-in types. Except for functions, but they kind of support that already 13:38:27 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-21-22.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:39:23 tcr: have a look at: http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=3897010229726822034&ei=cf5RSrmjD4P6-AbnvMG2Ag&q=debugging+in+time&hl=en&client=firefox-a 13:39:30 Three years old already... 13:39:40 I will, thanks 13:40:06 matimago: did you post a .fr URL? 13:40:12 the main reason it'd be interesting for built-in types would be better memory profiling 13:40:25 fiveop [n=fiveop@92.229.173.177] has joined #lisp 13:40:37 so instead of figuring out where allocation of anything is happening, figure out where allocation of objects that are still live happened 13:40:54 fasta: Not my fault, it's google who insist on redirecting based on your IP... 13:41:02 icylisper [n=user@115.99.32.68] has joined #lisp 13:41:10 jsnell, btw, if I want to mainline cfasl, what are the things to add to the current patch, beside testing? 13:41:21 correct compile-file-pathname, add docs, anything else? 13:41:24 matimago: No, I thought that maybe someone at Freenode rewrote the URL. 13:41:33 fasta: That's silly, the computer's the network, I don't even know where some of my computers are... 13:42:29 matimago: Youtube also thinks that I want to see their site in French, even though I have my preferred languages set in my browser. 13:42:48 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:42:55 fasta: yes -- you use the omniscient debugger with ABCL or CL-in-Java 13:42:56 ignas_ [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:43:10 should do the trick 13:44:05 Fare: besides those, the main thing for usability would be to make cfasls as repeatable as possible. IIRC there are some bits in the current patch to start on that path. but I don't think that needs to be done for this to be committed 13:44:21 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-36-1-44.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 13:44:30 Is it possible to create an array with its first element to be indexed as 2 (not 0) 13:44:46 it's sufficiently special-case that if it seems to work for you, the chances are it'll work for anyone else who would need it 13:44:51 zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:54 -!- saikat [n=saikat@71.163.70.52] has quit [] 13:45:03 leo2007: yes: (aref (make-array (+ 2 length)) 2) 13:45:26 does anyone know how to get gdb on x86-64 to tell you what the status of the sse registers is? 13:45:49 info reg? 13:45:51 matimago: there will be two elements unused 13:45:57 (for me, neither "info reg" nor "info float" gives me useful information) 13:46:29 info all-register perhaps? 13:46:43 leo2007: and you care? 13:47:00 tobetchi_ [n=tobetchi@p296b5e.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:47:08 leo2007: I think that you should use a normal array and make a wrapper around aref 13:47:09 matimago: thanks 13:47:12 leo2007: you will have to lose one slot anyways. 13:48:46 -!- HET2 [i=diman@128.131.95.22] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:49:22 jsnell, thanks a lot 13:50:35 ok, thanks. 13:51:05 leo2007: (defstruct (based-array (:constructor %make-based-array)) ranges array) (defun make-based-array (ranges &rest arguments &key &allow-other-keys #| or get the keys from make-array |# ) (%make-based-array :ranges ranges :array (apply (function make-array) (mapcar (function second) ranges) arguments))) (defun bref (based-array &rest indices) (apply (function aref) (based-array-array based-array) (mapcar (lambda (i r) (- i (first 13:51:05 r))) indices (based-array-ranges based-array)))) 13:51:15 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-189-215.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 13:51:52 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:53:03 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 13:54:48 I see that sbcl's swank-backend calls condition-broadcast to wake up all threads waiting for events from Emacs 13:54:55 saikat [n=saikat@71.163.70.52] has joined #lisp 13:55:01 Why condition-broadcast and not -notify? 13:55:13 kkbasol [n=kerim@212.174.90.98] has joined #lisp 13:55:23 hi 13:55:29 tcr: eliminates a class of race conditions where you notify a single thread that then proceeds to die or otherwise never notify others. 13:55:41 Ah, that makes sense 13:55:43 i am newbie about clisp 13:55:47 thanks pkhuong 13:55:52 The cost is performance... I don't think it matters much here 13:56:01 where is a good tutorial.I will write AI code for my project 13:56:53 dont you help me ? 13:56:54 kkbasol: Paradigms of AI Programming is a good book for learning Common Lisp 13:57:11 Thanx 13:57:21 Xach: ;) i wil look 13:57:28 -!- ASau [n=user@host175-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 13:58:24 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:59:04 serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-238-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:59:11 So who's taking their podcasting rig to Hamburg to record interviews with all the luminaries gathered at ECLM? 13:59:20 demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig120.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 14:00:55 salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has joined #lisp 14:01:00 'morning 14:01:25 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:02:20 -!- tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p923e6b.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:02:21 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:04:52 deafmacro [n=user@59.96.57.117] has joined #lisp 14:05:39 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:53 hi salex 14:07:22 -!- saikat [n=saikat@71.163.70.52] has quit [] 14:08:29 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:10:48 -!- cracki [n=cracki@42-064.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 14:12:51 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:05 yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@79-126-36-242.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 14:13:17 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:38 -!- demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig120.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 14:14:09 Does anyone know if SBCL has functions like CLISP's ext:the-environment and ext:eval-env functions that let you call eval in a lexical environment? 14:14:27 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-159-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:14:29 I did find this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/82635 14:14:33 -!- serichse1 is now known as serichsen 14:14:37 But I couldn't find any information on how it works :/ 14:15:05 demmel [n=demmel@a200.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 14:16:23 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-72-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Success] 14:17:46 Captain_Thunder: In the slime debugger, sldb-eval-in-frame does that. swank-sbcl.lisp should have the implementation-specific details to make it work. 14:18:09 Ok, thanks. 14:18:16 (It's probably not a good idea to attempt to do this outside of the debugger.) 14:18:41 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:01 going all right, fe[nl]ix ? 14:19:10 salex: yepp :) 14:19:10 Well, it's for a library that needs to read sexprs from strings, and I'd like to evaluate said sexprs with access to the entire environment. 14:19:26 And I'll just code up a slightly different version for each implementation. 14:19:38 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has quit ["Valete!"] 14:20:12 Captain_Thunder: what would the point of having access to the lexical environment of that library be? 14:20:20 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:20:28 Captain_Thunder: if it's a library, it should hide its internals. 14:20:43 matimago, of course the user will never know what's going on under the hood. 14:21:10 Then he doesn't need the lexical environment. Just use eval. 14:21:52 Well, I can't foresee what everyone is going to need, so I'm going to opt for the most flexibility possible. 14:22:01 Even if I lose an implementation or two. 14:22:28 I recall reading something about premature flexibilization recently... 14:22:43 You shouldn't believe everything you read :) 14:22:55 just saying :) 14:22:58 but it was on the intarnets, it must be twue! 14:23:29 In normal applications, I see the point, but I think libraries are one of the place where premature flexibilization would be appropriate. 14:24:17 well, it comes with a cost, and that should be balanced 14:25:21 Hmm, what costs do you have in mind? 14:25:53 In this case, the cost is less portability, but it doesn't always work out like that. 14:26:18 serichsen: premature flexibilization is the root of all noodles? 14:26:28 heh 14:27:18 Lisp is a noodle, it all makes sense now. 14:27:46 I thought that canonically, lisp was a ball of mud. 14:28:08 And APL is a beautiful diamond. 14:28:16 sorry, a "big ball of mud" 14:28:17 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@novelletto.bio.uniroma2.it] has joined #lisp 14:28:18 perhaps it is noodles alla mudballs 14:28:21 lol 14:28:38 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@novelletto.bio.uniroma2.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:29:47 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 14:30:40 willb [n=wibenton@compsci-wifi-39.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:31:39 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=jimi_hen@unaffiliated/jimihendrix] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:32:37 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-44.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:37:38 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-24-59-253-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:24 mikezor [n=mikael@c-4fe070d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:40:13 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:41:00 ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:30 -!- dtulig [n=user@cpe-24-28-77-89.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:48:46 paw` [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:30 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:49:48 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:04 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 14:54:03 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 14:54:20 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.96.57.117] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:56:06 Xof: ping 14:56:13 hello! 14:57:02 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:09 I think spaghetti with lots of sauce and beef sounds quite good, but "big ball of mud" has precedence 14:57:24 hi Xof! 14:57:51 why is declare not listed as a special form in the spec? cltl2 says it would be... 14:58:11 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["brb rebooting into MS"] 14:58:14 -!- sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:58:14 fe[nl]ix pasted "warning" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83106 14:58:24 demmel, it's not a special form, it's just a bit of syntax/advice 14:58:31 demmel: it's not. declare is just a symbol that's interpreted specially by some macros/special operators. 14:58:40 demmel: cltl2 is not quite the same thing as the ANSI standard 14:58:59 Xof: I'm getting the warning in #83106 when loading asdf-binary-locations(more or less). sounds familiar ? 14:59:00 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:59:02 hey piso! Welcome back. 14:59:06 fe[nl]ix: no 14:59:09 hi pkhuong! 14:59:15 hi Xof! 14:59:17 (I mean, yes, I've seen it, but no I am not about to fix it) 14:59:19 hi piso!! 14:59:36 what version of clisp do I need to use to build sbcl on x86? 14:59:56 I hope any relatively recent release 15:00:01 piso: I'm just woundering what it is and how it should be handled when walking code. So I assume a safe way would be to just ingnore it. 15:00:07 2.42 doesn't seem to work 15:00:08 famous last words. Mind you, piso, you should just use x 15:00:15 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@167.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:33 I do use x, but I wanted to see if x was faster or slower than clisp 15:00:48 slower :-) 15:00:53 damn 15:01:08 by how much? 15:01:21 not sure. A factor somewhere between 1.2 and 2 15:01:30 ok, thanks 15:01:43 I think I used 2.44 or 2.44.1 in my April adventure 15:02:41 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@204.194.78.3] has joined #lisp 15:03:48 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:04:17 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:48 demmel: that would be a reasonable first approximation 15:05:48 piso: im just doing macroexpansion with some application specific stuff, but i guess i dont need the info in the declare at all 15:05:52 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:45 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:06:51 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-189-215.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [" MS forgot to close port 80 "] 15:07:17 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 15:09:31 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 15:09:47 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:11 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@68.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:29 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 15:12:52 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:18:50 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-28-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:19:12 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 15:20:17 clhs loop 15:20:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 15:20:34 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-117.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 15:21:06 is it possible to bind values in LOOP to multiple values returned by a form? 15:21:30 -!- phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 15:21:59 I don't know about that, but you can use WITH in LOOP to set up local variables, and then (SETF (VALUES ...) ...) 15:22:35 Adlai: there is no loop keyword or syntax for it 15:22:49 Adlai: (loop for (q r) = (multiple-value-list (truncate 10 3)) do (print (list q r)) (loop-finish)) 15:25:26 paw`` [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:25:51 demmel: cl-walker should take care of it. I do not if it actually does. 15:25:58 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:26:21 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:26:24 tcr: i'm writing my own walker 15:28:14 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit ["reboot"] 15:28:41 I don't think that's a particularly good idea 15:28:48 spilman_ [n=spilman@92.139.242.234] has joined #lisp 15:28:53 hm, thanks matimago, although it feels as though there should be a less roundabout way to do this. 15:29:00 *Adlai* dreams about CLtL 3 15:29:20 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@167.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:30:05 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 15:30:34 [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.181] has joined #lisp 15:30:57 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:32:32 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:33:13 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:33:44 eaumontab [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:49 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:41 tcr: it's certainly challanging. 15:34:55 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@68.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:35:30 -!- younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:35:30 What does it do that cl-walker doesn't? 15:35:50 younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:38:39 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:40:10 Adlai: CLtL 3 seems to be more focused about library features that lack standardisation (though I won't be surprised to see cl-walker or similar included...) 15:40:21 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-21-22.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:40:42 -!- paw` [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:40:46 tcr: it does much less (only what i need), hopefully not spit out plenty of warnings and i _want_ to write a walker :P 15:41:11 tcr: i find it very instructive 15:41:45 tcr: I realize many things in CL that I haven't yet thought about. 15:41:48 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has quit ["Valete!"] 15:43:06 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-66.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:44:11 -!- eaumontab [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:44:28 since ##lispweb doesn't have many people, I'll ask here - anyone has any pointers on mixing yaclml and weblocks? I'm not sure concerning output... 15:46:51 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:49:17 i think you've found the reason that ##lispweb doesn't have a lot of people 15:50:10 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:50:27 haha 15:50:36 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:50:49 danlei [n=user@pD9E2F86D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:06 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 15:53:10 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-11596.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 15:53:20 mega1: are you here? 15:53:24 yes 15:53:46 I've just come back from ##lispweb. 15:53:57 there is noone there. 15:54:31 mega1: does sb-thread:condition-wait reaquire the lock even due to a timeout (as per with-timeout)? 15:54:59 let me check 15:55:27 I'm looking at the source, and some comments say, but I don't quite see it 15:55:33 yes 15:55:49 I remember spending some time on this function recently. 15:56:20 the futex version is fine 15:56:43 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:56:43 But what about the allow-with-interrupts around the call to get-mutex? 15:56:56 -!- frozsyn [n=FrozSyn@195.83.212.223] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:57:03 (I don't have a working sbcl here, so I'm browsing the source without the magics of M-.) 15:57:18 tcr: hmm, wait a minute 15:58:20 reaquisition of the mutex is with interrupts allowed so it can be timed out 15:58:26 I remember now. 15:58:44 in some test I saw a lot of errors due to this issue. 15:58:55 you should use deadlines, not timeouts 15:58:59 deadlines are safe 15:59:36 ahem 15:59:50 commmmodo [n=commmmod@64.168.229.50] has joined #lisp 16:00:14 not even deadlines are immune to this 16:00:29 -!- Ragnaroek [i=8f5df9e1@gateway/web/freenode/x-9a7f8fc60eaedf16] has quit ["Page closed"] 16:02:01 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:32 tcr: 1.0.26.5 changed this 16:03:46 now the reaquisition is interruptible and release-mutex stays silent by default if you don't have the mutex 16:04:08 is this behaviour problematic? 16:05:38 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 16:06:00 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:06:24 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-28-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:38 -!- holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:06:41 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-238-188.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 16:06:54 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:07:03 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 16:07:19 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:09:15 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 16:09:50 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:28 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-24-59-253-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:12:43 mega1: look at receive-if in swank-sbcl.lisp 16:13:28 Hm no that's fine 16:13:47 seems fine to me too 16:13:59 I've looked at this function before. 16:14:03 I'm trying to get threads working for ECL, and I'm fighting with posix condition-variables, and condition-variabled-timedwait 16:14:04 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:14:06 what the purpose of the timeout? 16:14:18 to check for slime-interrupts periodically 16:14:24 (user pressing C-c C-c in Emacs) 16:14:28 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-24-59-253-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:28 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:14:59 why can non-linux platforms get away with no timeout? 16:15:26 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:39 Well, on windows we don't use threads 16:16:44 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:16:51 tcr: I had multithreaded build of ECL on windows 16:17:14 p_l: Sure, I'm trying to make use of them in ecl's swank backend 16:17:20 segv [n=mb@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:37 mega1: Actually, ask that question on the mailing list. 16:18:33 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-24-18-248-252.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:18:40 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:19:56 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:21:05 just for the record, in 16:21:05 (with-mutex (mutex) 16:21:05 (handle-bind ((error (c) (stuff))) 16:21:05 (condition-wait ...))) 16:21:05 it's unsafe for STUFF to assume that the mutex is still held due to the fact that reaquisition might have failed. 16:21:40 same for handler-case, etc. 16:21:51 Ok then please make that clear in the docs 16:22:07 I actually looked there first :-) 16:22:08 -!- fasta [n=a@217.109.160.5] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:23:24 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:23:29 tcr: just please don't make the code depend on pthreads in some way, if possible only on what is in ECL 16:23:44 p_l: ECL itself depends on pthreads 16:23:56 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:24:03 it provides condition-variables on the platforms where it uses pthreads which excludes windows 16:24:14 tcr: not on windows, iirc 16:24:44 and I'm pretty sure I've got it working with threads on windows, but I don't have any working windows instance at the moment 16:27:53 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:27:54 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:28:00 Greetings. 16:28:21 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:30:11 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-21-105.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:30:36 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:51 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.181] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:31:26 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:27 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:31:39 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 16:33:25 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:34:18 mega1: we'll see if a lock-free multi-word compare-and-set can help avoid some of the headaches re locks and signals ;) 16:34:41 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:35:26 pkhuong: are designing a cpu? 16:35:29 +you 16:35:30 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:42 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:35:44 no, I found a paper with a nice practical implementation on top of regular CAS 16:36:49 Untested translation at . 16:37:09 sounds interesting, though I don't have a use-case ready 16:38:14 Well, hash tables for one. It's possible to do lock-free rehashes that way. 16:39:15 How would you implement some sort of soft lock that should lock most other threads out until the lock is released or a given deadline is reached? 16:39:32 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:41:22 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:41:56 pkhuong: "most other"? 16:42:29 right. It's ok if a couple threads go through in advance, etc. It's a performance issue, not a correctness one. 16:43:01 pkhuong: I would implement it by finding a smart student 16:43:05 and saying "please implement this" 16:43:41 why wouldn't (with-deadline (...) (with-mutex (mutex) ...) suffice? 16:44:40 jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has joined #lisp 16:46:34 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 16:47:10 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [Client Quit] 16:47:13 Seems slightly heavyweight to involve deadlines, but mostly I don't want to interrupt the "holder". The goal is simply to avoid having too much duplicated work. 16:47:35 Xof: always a good policy, if you can make it work 16:47:37 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:45 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:49:24 depends a bit on a good supply of smart students 16:49:50 (something on my mind a bit these days) 16:51:22 is there a difference between (let nil ...) and (progn ...) ? 16:51:36 pkhuong: how is the holder interrupted? Can't it do stuff in the with-mutex body? 16:51:38 let doesn't preserve toplevelness. You can insert declarations after a let. 16:51:39 fisxoj_ [n=fisxoj@cpe-67-249-254-45.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:40 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-24-59-253-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:52:18 mega1: but the point of the deadline would be to interrupt the holder, no? I suppose it could release the lock. 16:54:29 deadline-timeout is currently an error but that's fixable 16:54:47 so you can handle it without upsetting anything. 16:55:46 how safe is that from the holding thread dying with the lock held? Making sure the holder doesn't have to do anything special to allow others in helps to eliminate race conditions 16:56:31 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:57:00 Jabberwock [n=jens@port-11596.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:15 pkhuong: the holding thread releases the mutex when it unwinds 16:58:35 no special action is to be taken 16:58:52 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 16:58:58 well, yes, during unwinding, implcitly. 16:59:36 yaroslav_h_ [n=yaroslav@79-126-2-32.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 16:59:51 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:00:17 a-s` [n=user@92.81.146.45] has joined #lisp 17:00:21 I have to go now. 17:00:36 -!- yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@79-126-36-242.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:02:08 demmel_ [n=demmel@c108.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 17:02:26 pkhuong: I see. So macro-let with a multiline body is better replaced with the macroexpansion of `(let nil ,@body) in a code walker. Does macrolet preserve toplevelness? 17:02:28 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:02:50 ask the spec. 17:03:16 You should have a really good handle on these questions if you're writing a code-walker. 17:04:17 oh it does preserve toplevelness. Its not really an issue for my application though. 17:04:35 antoni [n=user@75.pool85-53-22.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 17:04:43 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-01929.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:05:03 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:05:08 demmel_: do you know about cl-walker? 17:05:22 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-11-55.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:05:39 *Xach* has deja vu 17:05:53 attila_lendvai: yep. I should have a look at the implementation of their macrolet, your right. 17:06:06 or use it... 17:06:57 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:22 or not use a walker at all. 17:07:39 addled [n=adlirc@209.20.68.236] has joined #lisp 17:07:50 yeah, if you can get away without a walker, then steer clear of it... 17:08:12 -!- addled [n=adlirc@209.20.68.236] has left #lisp 17:08:24 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp154.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 17:08:44 i do need a walker and writing my own is much more fun than using cl-walker. (And much more lightweight, but thats not the point anyway) 17:09:23 You never need a walker. I've never met a problem that required the solution to parse common lisp. 17:09:55 pkhuong: implementing a continuation based dsl. 17:10:04 pkhuong: I'm doing code transformation. 17:10:16 pjb: a DSL doesn't have to be CL. 17:10:44 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-75-70.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:10:45 demmel_: and what practical goal do you achieve by trying to handle all of CL? 17:11:29 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:11:52 -!- demmel [n=demmel@a200.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:12:01 -!- antoni [n=user@75.pool85-53-22.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12:39 I need to find certain function calls in a source tree. This is then used to define automatic replacement of pieces of code by something else. 17:13:09 demmel_: are these function calls identified by their context? 17:13:17 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-28-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:13:22 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 17:13:27 Or do you only identify them from their arguments? 17:14:42 pjb: identified by their name, unless its shaddowed by the local environment. 17:15:06 demmel_: then you could use compiler-macros. 17:15:20 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:15:22 or wrap the forms with a flet/macrolet depending on the needs. 17:15:28 -!- a-s [n=user@92.81.146.45] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:15:35 pjb: I need only very basic code walking facilities. Macroexpansion and picking up the environment for function and macrocalls. 17:15:57 This is already implemented by the compiler for compiler-macros. 17:16:09 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:16:13 demmel_: you don't need a code walker for what you want to do. 17:18:18 bad_alloc [n=marvin@HSI-KBW-078-042-139-239.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:18:43 evening 17:18:56 there is more though: Those functions (called plans) are idenified by a unique path along the tree which consists of the plans called along the way and special forms like (:tagged :foo body) which add (tagged :foo) to the current path. 17:20:35 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 17:20:38 that's purely runtime state. Even less reason to use a code walker. 17:20:51 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 17:21:02 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:21:22 okflo [n=user@91-115-82-99.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:21:32 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-a54afa2301e0c811] has joined #lisp 17:22:43 Blkt [n=Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-153.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:23:05 -!- bad_alloc [n=marvin@HSI-KBW-078-042-139-239.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit ["You shoot yourself in somebody else's foot."] 17:23:33 -!- yaroslav_h_ [n=yaroslav@79-126-2-32.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:23:51 -!- okflo [n=user@91-115-82-99.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:24:48 demmel [n=demmel@c108.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 17:24:59 there is more though: Those functions (called plans) are idenified by a unique path along the tree which consists of the plans called along the way and special forms like (:tagged :foo body) which add (tagged :foo) to the current path. --- i think my connection died before i sent this 17:25:35 that went though 17:25:43 And I replied with: that's purely runtime state. Even less reason to use a code walker. 17:26:14 -!- demmel_ [n=demmel@c108.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:26:32 the code is replaced at runtime. 17:27:15 and the plans might not have been defined when a plan that needs to be expanded later is compiled. So there is no way of doing things during compile time. 17:27:41 But there is a way to do this at walk-time? What do you call walking code, except a compilation step? 17:28:07 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:28:08 It's also not clear to me what you gain by mixing CL and non-CL logic arbitrarily. 17:28:46 deafmacro [n=user@59.92.152.156] has joined #lisp 17:30:50 basically i need to find out what the plan defined by the path say ((top-level-plan a) (tagged :foo) (plan b)) looked like. 17:31:06 as in what the function call looked like. with parameters 17:32:20 so i do something like (expand-plan '(a)) 17:32:43 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:33:08 which walkes the definition of a expanding it to a tree like datastructure which lets me navigate to any valid path in the plan tree. 17:34:38 I walk the definition of "a" (which was saved during compile time) and when i encounter a call like (b arg1 arg2) etc include that in my plan tree and proceed to expad the definition of "b". 17:35:17 *kahmalo* got SBCL 1.0.29 built 17:36:45 -!- Jabberwock [n=jens@port-11596.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:36:49 anyway. maybe there is a clever way of doing without code walking. But I don't think so. 17:38:53 jmbr [n=jmbr@174.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:41:47 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@64.168.229.50] has quit [] 17:45:35 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has quit [] 17:45:55 jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has joined #lisp 17:46:04 commmmodo [n=commmmod@64.168.229.50] has joined #lisp 17:50:36 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:53:21 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 17:53:37 -!- prip [n=_prip@host121-9-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:53:54 `(locally ,@body) is what macrolet should expand into... 17:56:26 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:57:45 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:32 -!- dialtone_ is now known as dialtone 17:59:37 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit ["leaving"] 17:59:41 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:09 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 18:05:03 -!- icylisper [n=user@115.99.32.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:05:42 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp154.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 18:06:05 fusss [i=73801a2a@gateway/web/freenode/x-b4ba17f2a06413a0] has joined #lisp 18:06:12 greetings 18:06:54 hullo 18:07:09 demo'ed my lisp app to a crowd of baffled and wildly entertained crowd today :-) 18:07:56 a crowd of crowd? 18:08:01 best line "so it's like server side javascript with JIT native compilation" :-P 18:08:15 prip [n=_prip@host171-121-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:08:17 EE's rather 18:08:25 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-238-66.netcologne.de] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:08:54 they kept thinking the lisp code was sent to the browser at some point 18:09:35 same thing happened before. someone asked if he can fetch the same page from his laptop, thinking i was running a lisp "plugin" 18:09:55 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:10:10 -!- chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:10:19 What are possible reasons for FINISH-OUTPUT hanging on a socket? How can I debug it? 18:11:18 tcr: i just cheat and work with the underlying fd-stream :-( 18:12:32 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:47 tcr: "finish-output attempts to ensure that any buffered output sent to output-stream has reached its destination, and then returns." Maybe you want FORCE-OUTPUT, which doesn't wait? 18:13:22 that too .. 18:13:35 *fusss* assumes everyone is working on hunchentoot 18:14:22 serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-238-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:14 one show stopper i had was forgetting the syntax for handler-case while on projector 18:18:37 had to fake it with multiple-values 18:19:16 which reminds, why do slime and LW indent m-v-b 16 spaces in? 18:19:32 -!- fisxoj_ [n=fisxoj@cpe-67-249-254-45.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:20:10 and LW needs a way to create more than one listener; had to fake that too with a background thread. *sigh* 18:21:19 Jasko3 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:10 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:35 can someone remember the version sbcl got --script -option? 18:22:55 NEWS can 18:23:00 NEWS says 1.0.22 18:23:02 thanks 18:23:17 is sbcl in code freeze for .30 now? 18:23:21 yes 18:24:08 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-24-59-253-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:24:54 what does sbcl take now? I'm sure i have --script in my scripts 18:24:58 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:24:59 thx. been travelling for a week and out of touch 18:25:23 fusss: --script 18:26:10 Xach: how you been? I moved to Australia last month :-) 18:26:17 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0812.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:26:53 not too shabby 18:28:27 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 18:29:30 I'm about to invoke the dreaded nested backquote, wish me luck. 18:30:39 Well, that wasn't so bad. 18:31:11 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:31:24 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.140.108] has joined #lisp 18:31:36 Jasko [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:58 benny [n=benny@i577A10DB.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:16 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:36:33 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:36:55 -!- fusss [i=73801a2a@gateway/web/freenode/x-b4ba17f2a06413a0] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 18:38:49 -!- illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:43:46 Supercazzora [n=tapioco@host134-213-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:43:48 hi 18:44:10 please I need help on common lisp + slime... :) 18:44:20 What's up? 18:44:29 (format t "hello, world") 18:44:32 return nil 18:44:42 without printing the message :) 18:44:50 Supercazzora: as it should. 18:44:56 what implementation? 18:44:58 what OS? 18:45:00 What makes you think it should show anything? 18:45:24 windows and sbcl? 18:45:26 -!- Jasko3 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:45:27 Wher do you think your characters are? 18:45:29 stassats, linux 18:45:36 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-238-188.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:45:41 pjb, why *wouldn't* it show anything? 18:45:42 stassats, linux + slime + emacs22 + clisp 18:45:51 Because I/O are buffered. 18:45:57 no, that's bug in slime 18:45:58 (terpri) 18:46:10 Or (finish-output) 18:46:12 pjb, using clisp in a bash worked 18:46:12 it was printed into *inferior-lisp* 18:46:29 Supercazzora: well, clisp is smarter than either sbcl or slime, so... 18:46:40 Yeah, see if you can switch into that buffer. 18:46:59 -!- younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:08 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.92.152.156] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:10 Captain_Thunder, no inferior lisp as buffer :( 18:47:13 slime captures stdout on my sbcl+emacs22 setup. 18:47:16 younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:47:27 Odd. 18:47:38 Supercazzora: either try to update CVS, or do (setf *standard-output* (swank::connection.user-output swank::*emacs-connection*)) 18:48:27 rouslan [n=Rouslan@pool-70-20-44-43.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:54 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@204.194.78.3] has quit [] 18:48:56 pkhuong: No, I do want it to finish. I just wonder what could cause stuff not getting through 18:49:06 # 18:49:18 Supercazzora: Make sure you're on HEAD 18:49:40 tcr: yours today commit deals with this issue? 18:50:01 stassats, working! On another machine with same Debian distros worked without using your setf 18:50:06 stassats, thanks 18:50:22 stassats: Yeah, I don't know if that's a perfect solution, but that bug lasted too long already 18:50:24 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-17-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:50:51 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-17-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:51:26 Supercazzora: that's not a good solution, since you need to do this each time, so update from CVS 18:51:29 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@64.168.229.50] has quit [] 18:51:48 stassats, but same version of slime worked on another machine 18:52:13 with clisp? 18:52:28 stassats, yes! Same CPU architecture too 18:54:08 stassats, on the other machine I got: hello, worldNIL 18:54:13 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:54:30 Supercazzora: which, again, seems perfectly normal. 18:54:32 that's what it should be, yes 18:54:35 Supercazzora: what else did you expect? 18:55:06 in the non working machine I got (now): 18:55:08 hello, world 18:55:10 NIL 18:55:14 stassats: If you want something to chew on, fix repl-type-ahead 18:55:21 Supercazzora: THIS, is strange. 18:55:25 stassats: That's the "output goes before last return value" bug 18:55:28 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@wirenat-eld.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:55:42 frozsyn [n=frozsyn@blm93-2-82-229-63-104.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:43 Supercazzora: what's the value of swank:*communication-style* 18:55:50 tcr: i'll look at it 18:56:05 stassats, NIL 18:56:31 Sbidicuda [n=antani@host134-213-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:57:02 Supercazzora: in what buffer? *inferior-lisp* or *slime-repl clisp*? 18:57:32 *slime-repl clisp* 18:57:36 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-75-70.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:57:51 I've got no *inferiori-lisp* at all 18:57:52 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-24-59-253-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:58:15 that's strange, i'd expect both either to work, or not work 18:58:24 commmmodo [n=commmmod@64.168.229.50] has joined #lisp 18:58:29 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-24-59-253-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:31 Supercazzora: remote connection? 18:58:50 stassats, no 18:59:16 anyway, have you updated slime? 18:59:33 stassats, debian repository 19:00:38 you need to get it from CVS, if you want that bug to be fixed 19:01:05 stassats, ok, thanks 19:02:34 -!- zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:03:01 kmels [n=kmels@97.160.216.201.static.intelnet.net.gt] has joined #lisp 19:03:56 wubbster [n=wubb@doc-24-206-235-153.kw.tx.cebridge.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:08 :D 19:04:28 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@64.168.229.50] has quit [] 19:07:17 -!- kmels [n=kmels@97.160.216.201.static.intelnet.net.gt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:07:35 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:08:00 kmels [n=kmels@97.160.216.201.static.intelnet.net.gt] has joined #lisp 19:08:04 -!- kmels [n=kmels@97.160.216.201.static.intelnet.net.gt] has quit [Client Quit] 19:08:45 kmels [n=kmels@97.160.216.201.static.intelnet.net.gt] has joined #lisp 19:10:15 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:10:35 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 19:10:51 dysinger [n=tim@166.203.235.104] has joined #lisp 19:10:57 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:11 hi kmels ASau dysinger and aja :D 19:11:31 hey : ) 19:11:50 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:11:52 -!- Dazhbog [n=sampo@geek.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:12:28 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@117.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:12:31 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:13:36 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:42 (hello) 19:14:08 xan [n=xan@29.Red-83-59-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:12 mega1 [n=mega@53d82558.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 19:15:22 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-75-70.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:17:05 hmm, can you reach www.franz.com? I can't. 19:17:14 Nope. 19:17:27 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-78.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:17:29 nope 19:17:40 *Xach* wonders what's up, or down 19:18:05 looks like a routing loop inside cogentco.com 19:18:13 *tmh* gives up on www.franz.com 19:18:18 stale advertisement or something. 19:19:48 jyujin [n=mdeining@82.113.121.123] has joined #lisp 19:22:43 Works for me. 19:23:06 From two different hosts, topologically very distant. 19:23:10 you cheated 19:23:15 now it works for me too 19:23:29 same 19:23:45 loads for me... 19:24:18 http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/franz.com 19:24:20 Make that four different hosts. 19:24:37 manuel___ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:05 *Riastradh* blinks. 19:25:08 `Web 3.0's Database'? 19:25:23 huh. planet lisp is on franz's front page 19:25:32 guess i haven't looked at them for ages 19:26:18 Riastradh: indeed. that's odd 19:26:46 please, someone locate the marketeer who pitched that idea and give them a kicking 19:27:00 *stassats* already upgraded to Web 4.5 19:27:19 salex: it's something created by Semantic Web people 19:27:20 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@174.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:27:20 well, one of their previous slogans was something like "Dynamic objects, all the way down[tm]" 19:27:29 bingo! 19:27:37 true. they don't exactly have a good track record that way 19:27:38 i hear Web 42.0 is coming out soon 19:27:39 Gee, the Wikipedia article on Web 3.0 has been deleted no fewer than ten times. 19:27:50 ah, "AI Built In, All The Way Down" 19:27:50 p_l: right, so give them a kicking while you're at it 19:27:53 notme [n=notme@p5DDD2727.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:56 Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming 19:29:05 have any of you read it? 19:29:10 many have 19:29:11 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 19:29:12 syamajala [n=syamajal@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:19 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:29:28 wubbster: I have read it. I like it and would recommend it to anyone who wants to get better at Common Lisp. 19:29:35 agreed 19:29:40 great :D 19:29:49 i plan on reading it then 19:32:04 l4ndfo [n=l4ndfo@catv-89-133-129-146.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:34:48 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-11-55.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:35:42 hi, can somebody help me how to get the same functionality in ECL like double-float-high-bits, double-float-low-bits and make-double-float in SBCL? 19:35:59 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-27-61.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:36:09 -!- Sbidicuda [n=antani@host134-213-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:36:34 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:39:54 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:30 -!- notme [n=notme@p5DDD2727.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 19:40:47 -!- demmel [n=demmel@c108.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [] 19:42:23 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:42:47 how can something like this be done in lisp? 0.0 a3 0.1 19:42:54 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:43:07 sorry, it is 0.0 logxor 0.1 (in binary) 19:43:16 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-238-188.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 19:45:39 leo2007: are you trying to do xor on float? 19:46:05 i get an SB-BSD-SOCKETS:SOCKET-ERROR "connect" error with asdf-upgrade 19:46:16 what could be the cause ? 19:47:22 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["leaving"] 19:47:24 sepult: it could be that a server that is hosting some software you previously downloaded is no longer available. 19:47:34 oh 19:47:49 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.28.224] has quit [] 19:47:52 Xach: so should i just interrupt with CTRL-C then ? 19:48:07 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 19:48:12 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:48:14 sepult: I don't know, sorry. 19:48:27 Xach: ok thank you though 19:49:35 p_l: 0.1 0.101 ... is in binary 19:50:26 -!- kmels [n=kmels@97.160.216.201.static.intelnet.net.gt] has quit [] 19:50:30 *Fare* realizes that functions used while computing the value of defconstant must be available at compile-time, and adds a few eval-when's 19:51:40 how can one interrupt a sbcl-thread invoked via C-c C-c (slime-compile-defun) from a lisp-buffer? 19:51:53 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 19:52:07 trebor_dki: M-x slime-list-thread 19:52:20 press `d' on the right line 19:52:23 hey -- anyone interested in XCVB hacking? There are some easy tasks on the TODO list. 19:52:44 tcr: thank you very much, i should have aproposed that one. 19:53:06 phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:09 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-39-8.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:59 serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-238-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:58:42 francogrex [n=franco@17.237-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:58:54 -!- A_anekos is now known as anekos 19:59:19 hi, guys I was mucking around with loops on lists and alists, I had huge amount of data to match and go thru... 19:59:25 it was quite slow 19:59:50 I'm thinking to speed it up. Should I better use arrays/vectors or hash tables? 19:59:58 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:00:08 what does your data represent 20:00:08 it all depends on what you want to do with it 20:00:11 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 20:00:13 and what are you doing with it? 20:00:38 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:00:51 hefner: art thou present ? 20:01:09 fast random access -> hash, quick access by index -> array 20:01:41 fe[nl]ix: aye 20:02:06 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:02:08 -!- jewel_ is now known as jewel 20:02:09 well my data are 2 very large tables, each with 2 rows: 20:02:18 sorry 2 columns 20:02:21 I mean 20:02:42 like: table 1: col1 col2 20:03:07 and table 2: col 3 col 4 20:03:26 what are you trying to do with them? 20:03:37 I have to match col1 with col3 and then add the corresponding col2 and col4 20:03:54 I was using dotimes lists and (nth i list) etc... 20:04:12 the indexes match? 20:04:20 hefner: how about this: 1) I generate the wrapper files with unique names 2) I generate them all into a single(customizable) directory 20:04:32 no, so i was using double nested loops 20:04:36 hefner: is that enough for your deployment needs ? 20:04:44 it sounds like you have keys in col1 and col3, make a hash-table 20:05:02 then iterate over table1's keys 20:05:04 guaqua: yes 20:05:10 hefner: that way you'll be able to easily bundle them with your image 20:05:10 and check if they exist in table2 20:05:14 fe[nl]ix: sounds workable, yeah. 20:05:24 but in general, can arrays vector go faster? 20:05:54 if you have to nested loops, it's not going to be faster for any input that exceeds any reasonable size 20:06:07 it also isn't as clear and simple if you have two nested loops 20:06:18 like how to hash tables translate to machine code compared to arrays? 20:06:31 ok 20:06:55 usually arrays are faster than hash tables 20:07:04 hefner: but you'll still need to do Ģenv LD_RUN_PATH=$INSTALLDIR $INSTALLDIR/$IMAGEģ, unless you install the wrapper files into /usr/local/lib or something similar 20:07:11 fe[nl]ix: I'd have imagined if it just recorded the names of the generated .so files so you could retrieve a list of them, using that information for deployment could be pushed off as someone else's problem 20:07:38 Summersault [n=root@189.107.157.209] has joined #lisp 20:08:01 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:03 fe[nl]ix: I think that's to be expected. 20:09:27 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-238-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:09:52 kmels [n=kmels@97.160.216.201.static.intelnet.net.gt] has joined #lisp 20:09:52 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:10:35 hefner: ok, I'll do that. better idea 20:10:40 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:10:52 stassats: thanks, I suspected so 20:11:35 francogrex: but hash-tables can take less space 20:12:14 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.140.108] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:12:42 like consed cells? 20:13:22 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:13:48 these all are different data structures, each has different characteristics and trade-offs 20:13:50 francogrex: those two tables, in rdbm parlance, do you inner/outer/left/right join them? 20:14:08 -!- serichse1 is now known as serichsen 20:15:46 syamajala [n=syamajal@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:03 -!- xan [n=xan@29.Red-83-59-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:17:17 serichse1, well it's like: col1,row1=DA, col2,row1=500 and col3,row1=DA and col4,row1=650 20:19:12 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:19:18 leo2007: first time I had seen 0. format 20:21:23 I have seen it in ACM algorithm 659 20:22:49 etc... 20:25:03 francogrex: what I meant was, are the entries in row1 and row3 unique? Is there a one-to-one, one-to-many, or many-to-many relation? Do you need to get results from one table where there is no corresponding entry in the other? 20:25:30 -!- mkfort [i=dSEGcZLd@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:26:45 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27:16 mkfort [i=X8TQ91P4@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:53 serichsen; yes there is a need to get entries in one table with no corresponding entry in the other (so the zeros) 20:27:58 -!- kmels [n=kmels@97.160.216.201.static.intelnet.net.gt] has quit [] 20:28:13 the ones that do not match 20:28:17 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1C1A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:23 you should be doing set operations on them 20:29:29 p_l: basically the rule is quite simple 0.101 xor 0.001 => 0.100 20:29:42 it is integer xor. I just found that out 20:29:52 remove all the items that satisfy a condition from the other set 20:30:00 but all that is a little toy example.... the real data will be matching several columns (so like for an group of col1 data say DA,DB,DC etc, they will be under col0 C1) 20:30:09 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:30:38 -!- ULTRAMAN [n=wr23@88-196-40-184-dsl.noe.estpak.ee] has quit [Success] 20:30:46 so col0s have to match, then col1 etc... 20:31:40 i was working with lists and using a profiler I saw it was taking about 20 min for 40,000 rows 20:32:24 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:32:41 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #lisp 20:32:47 francogrex: do the different tables have different semantic meanings? 20:33:19 -!- l4ndfo [n=l4ndfo@catv-89-133-129-146.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:33:27 sure it takes time 20:33:34 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:33:41 especially when using lists and 40 000 items 20:34:01 and nested loops 20:34:18 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:26 Hello all ... is there any way to disable the Lisp error handling in Hunchentoot 1.0 (e.g. to do what *catch-errors-p* did in pre-1.0 versions)? 20:35:41 serichsen, no they're the same varibales, just different source of data that has to be accounted for 20:35:48 variables 20:36:51 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 20:38:08 enn: I think that this is now handled by *break-on-signals*, but the semantics are bit different 20:38:09 -!- bun_bun [i=dem@world.anarchy.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:39:44 serichsen: ah, I see ... thanks, I'm seeing some discussion of that on tbnl-devel 20:39:50 francogrex: so you could (theoretically) also just append them all into one table? How many different values can the first column have? 20:41:27 leo2007: (logxor #b101 #b001) 20:41:34 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:02 it will return an integer, remember 20:42:29 yes then divide by 8 20:42:32 ;) 20:42:34 serichsen, about 40 in col0, 10,000 in col1, 20:43:22 then the 3rd col is the counts and there is a 4th out that startifies on the different counties 20:43:40 so in total 4 cols for each table, the 20:44:12 then this make it 8 cols (from the 2 tables) but becareful, table1 a dn tavble 2 do not have same length 20:44:45 francogrex: ok, so if you process just one table, you would expect an output of about 40 rows? 20:46:23 leo2007: well, you might want something that uses bit-vector class instead :) 20:46:32 serichsen, i'm sorry this is difficult to explain by irc: no, i would get thousands of rows 20:46:52 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:47:08 leo2007: like (bit-xor #*101 #*100) => #*001 20:47:24 francogrex: but how do you match then, if there are only 40 different possible values in the first column? 20:47:55 because within col0, thgere are several same col1s 20:48:29 say; col0= A A A A, col1=A B C D 20:48:30 p_l: why bit-vectors instead of integers? 20:49:05 Is there something like REMOVE-IF or REMOVE-IF-NOT that works on hash tables? 20:49:16 Captain_Thunder: no. 20:49:19 so one match is col0A-col1A-500-US 20:49:20 not built-in 20:49:23 tcr: in alexandria? 20:49:32 Sorry? 20:49:32 *Captain_Thunder* goes to write more code 20:49:39 wwith col0A-col1A-2500-US in table 2 20:49:40 etc 20:49:56 Is there a remove-if[-not] on hash tables in there? 20:50:03 maphash + remhash? 20:50:15 BTW, have you finalised your sequence-iterator interface? 20:50:26 -!- dalton [n=user7994@187.35.196.144] has quit ["eject"] 20:50:29 stassats: I simply gave examples for both 20:50:30 or maphash doesn't allow modifying hashtable 20:50:37 pkhuong: Uhm, no, except if you want to go the alist route 20:51:03 Captain_Thunder: I think that you can just do a (maphash (lambda (key value) (when condition (remhash key hashtable))) hashtable) 20:51:06 stassats: it does 20:51:12 under certain constraints 20:51:19 Yeah, I'll do something like that. 20:51:22 right 20:51:48 pkhuong: I do not have a general sequence iterator interface; that would be outside of the scope of alexandria. All what it provides is MAKE-SEQUENCE-ITERATOR, DOSEQUENCE, and DOSEQUENCES (to iterate over more than one sequence in parallel) 20:51:49 Although I've just discovered a more urgent problem in a different part of the code :/ 20:51:54 -!- phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 20:52:34 &optional parameters to the rescue. 20:52:34 francogrex: OK, so the values of col0 and col1 _together_ are the "key" 20:52:49 pkhuong: Do you need it? 20:54:21 serichsen, yes I guess yes 20:54:52 ok so u suggest I concatenate those 20:54:54 francogrex: can a combination of a col0 and a col1 value appear more than once in a table? 20:55:05 nono 20:55:16 serichsen, no it cannot in theory no 20:55:24 oh hold it 20:55:48 yes it can, if they are in differnt countries yes they can 20:56:23 but a combination of col0-col1-col3(country) can only appear once 20:57:17 francogrex: is being from a different country significant, or should data sets with equal col0 and col1 always be added together regardless of country? 20:58:55 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:04 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:15 serichsen, they should be added together in the context of the country only, so if col0col1col3(country) match in one and the other table then the counts col2s shoukd be added 21:01:05 i see where u are getting to... why not concantenate col0col1col3 21:01:15 well, not necessarily 21:01:16 and then match 21:01:35 yes, for matching purposes 21:02:12 francogrex: now, how are the tables stored to begin with? 21:02:45 -!- ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 21:03:21 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-66.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 21:03:24 I read them from csv files into lists! and it's a pain to change the whole program 21:03:41 I want to only chnge the matching part 21:03:52 OK, they are csv to begin with. 21:03:57 because the profiler says it is the worst zaffected 21:03:57 are they ordered? 21:04:12 they're not ordered 21:04:29 If it's hard for you to change your underlying representation then you'll now learn to value data abstraction 21:04:48 tcr, is this to me, 21:04:51 ? 21:04:59 Sure 21:05:07 i know, too late now 21:05:18 Why "too late"? 21:05:19 :( 21:05:20 I'm having great difficulties in changing my underlying representation. 21:05:25 How do I make myself a better person? 21:05:27 CLOS? 21:05:36 well, i'll have to change the whole prog, i have limited time 21:05:50 Captain_Thunder: practice? 21:06:04 That sounds good. 21:06:47 Lisp makes it tempting to just roll with the "represent everything as a cons of lists of cons cells" ;) 21:06:52 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:06:55 No it doesn't 21:07:01 Yeah it does. 21:07:04 when you've got a big toolbox, it seems to me that experience (both from writing your own code and reading the code of others) tells you which tools to apply to a given problem. i don't think there are many shortcuts. 21:07:12 It did so three decades ago, though 21:07:25 Well sure, it has more tools than that. 21:07:28 -!- jyujin [n=mdeining@82.113.121.123] has quit [] 21:07:36 What makes you think that it does? 21:07:37 I should start thinking about them more, I guess. 21:07:40 because, well, it does not 21:07:41 Captain_Thunder: i think that temptation might come from not knowing how to use defstruct or defclass. rolling things by hand from lists is too labor intensive. 21:08:11 Xach, I think when I first approach a situation, defstruct/defclass seem like overkill. 21:08:28 i almost always start with defclass. 21:08:32 even functional abstraction is better 21:08:37 I'll try that. 21:09:00 there's a defstruct option to use lists underneath. 21:09:11 *Xach* hasn't used that, because he doesn't usually use structs 21:09:42 structs are delicious. 21:09:55 I think another factor is that it seems like for most of my problems, the data changes quickly from statement to statement. 21:09:56 I <3 em, too! 21:10:09 So it doesn't often make sense to give it a specific name/form. 21:10:29 give it unspecific name 21:10:30 (Even though I'd like to and it would make things easier) 21:10:36 Good idea :) 21:10:44 Captain_Thunder: You try to make your data flow as explicit as possible. At least in the final version. 21:10:53 +should 21:11:51 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 21:12:55 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 21:14:09 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:14:19 francogrex: OK, so you need a sort of master table to collect data that come in in more or less random order. 21:16:20 francogrex: you need random access to each entry, so a hashtable is most likely the best solution. Use the concatenated values of col0, col1 and col3 as key. 21:16:25 serichsen, true would be useful I think, but i'm reading each col of the csv files into a list and I have several lists and been "inefficiently" working on those 21:16:47 serichsen, this sounds good, I'll try it 21:17:01 francogrex: you can then just process one table after the other, serially 21:22:37 hrmn. anybody else having problems checking out the cl-yacc repo? 21:23:14 serichsen, thanks will try that 21:24:07 francogrex: overusing lists is a common problem in lisp programs... only use them when you need a singly linked list. 21:24:12 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:40 -!- Blkt [n=Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-153.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:26:53 -!- francogrex [n=franco@17.237-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:27:15 demmel [n=demmel@dslb-188-098-194-225.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:54 attila_lendvai: or when you are playing with code? ;) 21:29:06 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:29:11 kmels [n=kmels@190.148.177.22] has joined #lisp 21:29:39 p_l: actually using cons cells to represent an AST is a very bad idea imho (you can not annotate extra information without disturbing the AST as understood by other algorithms, e.g. the compiler) 21:29:51 -!- LiamH [n=none@208.72.159.207] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:30:19 p_l: cons cells are only ever so slightly better than strings at not obfuscating information. 21:30:40 but yes, a whole lot better than strings... :) 21:30:59 attila_lendvai: (setf (gethash (cadr '(lambda (a b) (* a b))) *annotation*) 'parameter-list) 21:31:26 pjb: that is turing-complete reasoning, please don't go any further... 21:31:45 pjb: based on object identity and thus fails to be transparent when code isn't transformed in-place. 21:31:48 and also wrong 21:32:03 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-164-146.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:13 But really, the point is that they allow you to introduce anonymous data structures between each phase of computation. You realize how they're useful when you have to implement algorithms in C++, where you have to name everything... 21:32:27 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:32:58 or named ones (defstruct (name (:type list)) ...) 21:33:38 pjb: C++ is pretty good at anonymous data structures, thanks to templates. 21:33:40 pjb: a whole range of data structures can introduce "anonymous" data, including strings. somehow it doesn't make sexp's a better candidate for me... 21:34:02 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:34:25 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:29 First thing I do in any non-trivial compiler now is to parse sexps into structures (or clos instances). 21:34:49 Of course, nothing prevents you to do that if you need it. 21:34:49 That's silly 21:34:51 pattern matching is the sloppy man's type dispatch. 21:34:58 s/introduce/represent 21:35:11 There are indeed many possible styles 21:35:16 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@x-132-204-254-109.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 21:35:31 Your's is just a bit more verbose and cumbersome han most 21:35:39 But I tend to have a s-exp representation for these objects, to be able to read and write them. 21:35:55 younder: you see, you are also sliding into turing-complete reasoning and scared away pkhuong... :) 21:36:07 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:37:04 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:37:04 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:38:40 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d82558.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:38:48 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 21:41:37 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:44:00 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:44:37 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-162-165.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:46:57 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:47:26 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:47:26 hefner: ping 21:48:19 pong 21:49:09 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:50:16 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Client Quit] 21:50:29 fe[nl]ix pasted "cffi-grovel patch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83132 21:50:35 hefner: please test that patch 21:51:24 -!- younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:51:41 younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:52:36 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 21:52:47 rlb3 [n=rlb@166.205.5.3] has joined #lisp 21:53:09 -!- rlb3 [n=rlb@166.205.5.3] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:01 hefner: use cffi-grovel:list-wrapper-libraries 21:56:32 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:25 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:35 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 22:01:15 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-065-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 where can I find docs on the implementation-specificness reader macros? (e.g. #+sbcl, etc) 22:03:46 clhs #+ 22:03:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhq.htm 22:04:04 that was easier than expected 22:04:05 ty 22:04:10 clhs 24.1.2 22:04:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/24_ab.htm 22:04:37 is there a type for unsigned fixnum? 22:04:49 damn, that didn't have any code examples :/ 22:05:04 (and unsigned-byte fixnum) 22:06:07 #+sbcl (progn ...) the appropriate way to use it? 22:06:10 clhs 24.1.2.1.1 22:06:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/24_abaa.htm 22:06:15 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:15 and the number can go up to 1073741824, right? 22:06:55 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:06:59 leo2007: no, they can go up to most-positive-fixnum 22:07:33 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:08:03 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:10 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 22:08:17 I got an array with all elements less than 1073741824, which type is most suitable? 22:08:50 and more than what? 22:08:58 (simple-array (integer 0 1073741824) (*)) 22:09:02 or something like that 22:09:08 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:09:12 ooh, you can specify integer bounds to save memory? 22:09:36 if more or less than 0, then (unsigned-byte 32) 22:10:44 or the corresponding argument to integer. 22:10:55 hefner: any problems ? 22:11:29 Ralith: you specify types to help compiler 22:11:40 fe[nl]ix: sorry, haven't tried it yet. I'm in the middle of something else. 22:11:45 'kay 22:12:35 -!- segv [n=mb@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 22:12:51 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-127-60.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:11 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:38 -!- kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:15:11 -!- paw`` [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 22:16:25 what was the command to get an image with sbcl ? 22:16:37 sb-ext: something 22:16:41 sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die 22:16:55 Hun: thank you very much 22:18:04 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:18:09 How do I go about loading the image back? 22:18:35 sbcl --core 22:19:10 thx 22:19:41 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 22:20:11 Hun: but i get an error upon entering (sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die) 22:20:32 Hun: invalid number of arguments 22:20:57 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/ 22:21:02 why does that happen ? 22:21:17 because you haven't read documentation 22:21:38 true 22:22:48 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 22:22:52 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:21 You don't need documentation to guess a filename is useful when you save something ;) 22:24:13 documentation is useful in general, and would answer the first question too 22:25:24 -!- frozsyn [n=frozsyn@blm93-2-82-229-63-104.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:26:38 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@89.132.189.132] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:27:59 :) 22:32:22 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:32:54 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-24-59-253-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:33:30 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@92.229.173.177] has quit ["humhum"] 22:38:05 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:39:22 still no go with specifying a file to use for image 22:39:47 there is a initial-thread, which interrupts any attempt on saving my images 22:39:58 i don't know why 22:40:39 Jabberwock [n=jens@port-11596.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 22:40:40 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-247.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:40:55 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:42:56 minion: memo for sepult: "On threaded platforms only a single thread may remain running after sb-ext:*save-hooks* have run. Applications using multiple threads can be save-lisp-and-die friendly by registering a save-hook that quits any additional threads, and an init-hook that restarts them." from http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Saving-a-Core-Image.html 22:42:57 Remembered. I'll tell sepult when he/she/it next speaks. 22:45:13 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:48 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-129-66.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:46:01 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-129-66.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:01 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-233-205.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:12 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:49:12 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 22:50:52 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:59 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:52:50 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:57:34 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:58:40 -!- willb [n=wibenton@compsci-wifi-39.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:00 -!- demmel [n=demmel@dslb-188-098-194-225.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 23:02:23 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:02:33 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:02:53 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:07:10 redline6561 [n=redline@c-71-56-34-130.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:26 Jasko [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:19 jyujin [n=mdeining@82.113.121.141] has joined #lisp 23:10:45 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:11:08 klepparii [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:11:37 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-127-60.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:12:38 syamajala [n=syamajal@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:50 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:12:55 jmbr__ [n=jmbr@41.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 23:13:45 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C2CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:15:23 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:35 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 23:15:52 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@117.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:17:04 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:17:51 Pegazus [n=awefawe@host122.190-31-41.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:18:58 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:20:16 elderK [n=elderK@222-152-95-210.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:20:56 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:58 -!- dysinger [n=tim@166.203.235.104] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:23:49 -!- spilman_ [n=spilman@92.139.242.234] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:24:19 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-11596.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:24:57 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1C1A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:14 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:25:49 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit ["leaving"] 23:25:57 Is there a simple way to define a recognizer predicate for a given class? 23:27:05 simpler than calling typep? 23:27:08 Ralith: yes 23:27:18 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-78.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 23:27:29 hefner: oh, typep looks like it'll do nicely too 23:27:29 thanks 23:28:12 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 23:28:44 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.232] has joined #lisp 23:29:00 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-139.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 fe[nl]ix: were you going to just answer typep too? 23:29:34 Ralith: yes 23:29:36 :P 23:30:07 Well, not until you asked what is a simple way to define a recognizer predicate for a given class... 23:30:08 I'm using this as an arg to remove-if-not so it would be handy if I could get an automatically defined predicate since then I could just use it instead of a lambda wrapping typep 23:30:45 (defun make-class-recognizer (class-name) (lambda (x) (typep x class-name))) 23:30:48 WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has joined #lisp 23:30:52 you get those for free if you use structs :) 23:30:57 (remove-if-not (make-class-recognizer 'my-class) list) 23:31:00 -!- jmbr__ is now known as jmbr 23:31:04 Or you could name it just recognize 23:31:11 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-75-70.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:31:21 pjb: what 23:31:26 hefner: aren't those deprecated? 23:31:38 not exactly. 23:31:46 ? 23:31:50 (defun recognize (class-name) (lambda (x) (typep x class-name))) and (remove-if-not (recognize 'my-class) list) 23:32:15 pjb: not a bad idea. 23:33:35 although be prepared to sacrifice quite some performance compared to (typep x 'some-constant)... 23:33:50 nothing a little inlining won't fix 23:34:04 not to mention this isn't remotely performance sensitive 23:35:36 (defun recognize (class-name) (compile 'nil `(lambda (x) (typep x ',class-name)))) 23:36:57 schoppenhauer_ [n=christop@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 23:36:57 -!- klepparii [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 23:37:25 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 23:38:10 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has left #lisp 23:40:27 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-176-53-236.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:16 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-065-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:41:52 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.232] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:44:30 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-065-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:40 shanmu [n=chat@client-82-20-3-145.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:07 hi cl-yacc installation times out when using clbuild? any help please? 23:48:27 -!- elderK [n=elderK@222-152-95-210.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 23:52:14 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@41.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:53:33 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:53:39 -!- schoppenhauer_ [n=christop@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["gbu"] 23:53:43 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Client Quit] 23:53:46 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:06 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 23:54:49 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:55:24 -!- shanmu [n=chat@client-82-20-3-145.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060309]"] 23:55:51 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has quit [] 23:56:29 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit []