00:00:51 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:24 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:02:06 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:02:16 ahaas: I'm not sure, but I think I heard even of someone writing some utils for parenscript to better integrate jQuery 00:03:19 p_l: Thanks. I'm new to both, but I think I'll give it a shot. 00:04:02 ahaas: you can always look into parenscript sources and write yourself some helpers :) 00:06:36 plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 00:06:40 Good morning 00:07:50 hello plage 00:08:00 plage: living in asia somewhere? 00:08:25 does lisp work with visual studio? 00:08:35 Bigshot_: Nope 00:08:52 any of the microsoft products? 00:10:17 yes, I believe that there are microsoft products that work with visual studio 00:11:11 serichsen: I am in Vietnam at the moment, but I'll go back to France tomorrow. 00:11:23 Bigshot_: AFAIK MS doesn't do much with Lisp nowadays, they have much bigger investment in ML 00:11:52 p_l: i've heard that microsoft is coming up with F# which has functional programming in it 00:11:57 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:12:05 with OCaml and F# being the main dialects (there's also some Haskell in MS Research) 00:12:11 Bigshot_: yeah, F# is an ML dialect 00:12:48 Bigshot_: F# is based on OCaml, which is already used internally by Microsoft (some of the tools are available outside as well) 00:14:31 there's L# 00:14:47 although i'm not sure it works in VS 00:15:04 Afaik the only Lisp implementation now going somewhat steady for MS was some work on IronScheme, not sure how far did it go 00:17:50 its author was previously working on CL implementation, but decided against it in the end 00:17:52 -!- demmel_ [n=demmel@p5B0C31D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 00:18:51 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:21:10 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.190.87] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:21:18 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.69.192] has joined #lisp 00:21:35 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit ["leaving"] 00:23:29 fe[nl]ix: Looking for me? 00:23:55 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-19-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:08 rtoym: never mind 00:25:34 Oh, ok. Guess it wasn't too important, then. :-) 00:28:39 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-251-238.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:29:07 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:29:55 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:31 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:32:21 -!- sellout [n=greg@63.118.137.211] has quit [] 00:33:26 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:05 -!- jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.101] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:20 -!- maxote [n=||||||||@84.79.67.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:38:04 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 00:38:42 -!- slyrus__ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-52-255-112.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:42:05 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:42:53 -!- keithr [n=user@ip68-13-249-183.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:48:17 keithr [n=user@ip68-13-249-183.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:36 -!- benny` is now known as benny 00:49:44 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:49:57 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 00:50:21 tmh: hi 00:52:08 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-142-208.netcologne.de] has quit ["goodnight"] 00:53:22 moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 00:57:28 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:58:26 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 00:58:45 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 00:58:51 Well, I can report back that parenscript is pretty easy to pick up. There were a couple tiny issues with jQuery, but nothing that took more than a quick search to resolve. 01:01:07 I'm happy to have the client-side and server-side all in Lisp. It started getting a little silly coordinating between a static javascript file and my Hunchentoot+CL-WHO code. 01:01:30 cool 01:02:25 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 01:02:30 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:02:30 *p_l* is learning LOL and Weblocks trying to make a demo to show people -_-; 01:05:28 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:49 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:07:49 implementor [i=4892dea4@gateway/web/freenode/x-de6de0ba89f74895] has joined #lisp 01:08:21 Should the following expression evaluate to 10 or 11? (let ((x 5)) (funcall (let ((x 6)) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) x)) 01:09:14 hm 01:09:20 what's the 'or' counterpart of every? 01:09:25 implementor: 11, of course 01:09:28 clhs some 01:09:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_everyc.htm 01:09:34 thanks 01:09:48 kpreid: that is what i though, sbcl, however evaluates to 10 01:09:59 implementor: unless x was globally declared special 01:10:21 hmm, i may have declared it special earlier, that would explain it 01:10:23 thanks 01:10:34 leo2007: Hey. I think you have the master branch. Regardless, just use ASSERT-NUMERICAL-EQUAL. That is the assertion used for GSLL and will not change not matter what the final interface looks like. 01:10:49 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 01:11:16 hey, sbcl should warn if you declare special a variable whose name contains no punctuation :-) 01:12:14 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:13:06 leo2007: Oh, and you might have to wrap the assertion in a let form binding *EPSILON* to (* 2 SINGLE-FLOAT-EPSILON) is you are using single floats. 01:13:09 what's the opposite of null? 01:14:02 as a predicate? identity 01:14:06 Ralith: is that a philosophical question ? 01:14:15 fe[nl]ix: no, it's an api question 01:14:30 prxq_ [n=mommer@pD95490F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:14:37 tmh annotated #82923 "leo2007 : ASSERT-NUMERICAL-EQUAL" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82923#5 01:14:44 I'm just using sbcl to double check the way i'm implementing things. Another thing I've had trouble with is whether to treat certain "operators" like QUOTE, LAMBDA, and FUNCTION as functions or macros... can anyone clarify that? 01:15:10 implementor: all of those you name are special operators. 01:15:26 Figures, thats the only way i could deal with them 01:15:35 fe[nl]ix: is there a function equivalent to (lambda (x) (not (null x)))? 01:15:49 "special operator" is a technical term in the common lisp standard 01:16:02 <_3b> isn't lambda a macro? 01:16:04 practically, it's just the bin for all the exceptions that are neither functions nor macros 01:16:07 whoops 01:16:18 right, LAMBDA is a macro (which expands to FUNCTION) 01:16:28 implementor: you shouldn't need to guess anyway, clhs spells it all out 01:16:46 guessing is more fun 01:16:47 ;) 01:16:51 anyone? 01:16:52 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@17.224.12.65] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:17:07 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_aba.htm <- start here. it's even arranged in the order you might test the specified conditions 01:17:13 Ralith: there is no such function in CL 01:17:18 kay 01:17:19 thanks 01:17:24 ceineke_ [n=chris@dhcp-0-24-1-2b-fc-77.cpe.cabletv.on.ca] has joined #lisp 01:17:30 *Bigshot_* enjoys goji berries 01:17:35 so to do the equivalent of 'or' over a list, I have to do (some (lambda ...) ...) 01:17:38 -!- ceineke_ is now known as ceineke 01:17:50 You can express it shorter as (lambda (x) (and x t)) though 01:17:54 Uh 01:17:59 (some #'identity your-list) works fine 01:18:09 ah. 01:18:15 I already said that 01:18:16 identity is basically what I was asking for. 01:18:20 minion: memo to leo2007: Use ASSERT-NUMERICAL-EQUAL, look at the example in http://paste.lisp.org/display/82923#5 , I'll be back later. 01:18:21 oh, sorry, must have missed it 01:18:21 Remembered. I'll tell leo2007 when he/she/it next speaks. 01:19:09 the other answers are because you asked for (not (null x)) (which is the same as (not (not x))) which is NOT identity because it returns t instead of the object. 01:19:11 -!- rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:19:17 *considered as a predicate*, this is irrelevant 01:19:26 rey_ [n=ikke@134.184.49.19] has joined #lisp 01:19:41 kpreid: yeah, I understood that 01:20:56 Oh. Well, that makes a lot more sense. The lambda macro returns a "fake" symbol for the anonymous function. I was treating it specially as a quazi-function that returned function object. 01:22:05 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-251-238.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:25:44 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:27:50 implementor: umm, you will not get a proper CL implementation that way 01:28:23 what has to happen, in the end, is closer to the second thing you describe than the first 01:28:55 also, the expansion of the lambda macro is exactly specified: (lambda ...) expands to (function (lambda ...)). function, not lambda, is the special form which creates function objects 01:30:35 -!- prxq [n=mommer@pD9548F4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 01:33:37 -!- Wombat2 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has left #lisp 01:34:52 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@166.129.57.239] has quit [] 01:35:30 what's the difference between SBCL and CLISP? 01:36:03 tmh: thanks, that succeeded 01:36:03 leo2007, memo from tmh: Use ASSERT-NUMERICAL-EQUAL, look at the example in http://paste.lisp.org/display/82923#5 , I'll be back later. 01:36:06 will the code made for CLISP work on SBCL? 01:36:09 Bigshot_: implementation strategy, history 01:36:46 Bigshot_: 19838452 01:36:58 wtf? 01:37:08 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-2d63eee385a8530c] has left #lisp 01:37:13 (- CLISP SBCL) 01:37:39 wow that's a hell lotova difference 01:37:59 *_3b* got BT7G4 01:38:17 WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has joined #lisp 01:38:37 Xach: will code made for clisp work on sbcl? 01:38:49 <_3b> Bigshot_: probably not 01:38:57 <_3b> Bigshot_: code made for CL should work on both though 01:39:07 depends on what it uses 01:39:35 _3b what i don't get you 01:39:37 <_3b> code made using clisp may or may not work on sbcl, depending on whether it uses anything clisp specific 01:39:57 <_3b> clisp and sbcl both implement the amsi common lisp standard 01:40:11 <_3b> both have additional features not specified by the standard 01:40:19 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.28.224] has quit [] 01:40:22 <_3b> so if you write code to the standard, it should work on both 01:40:32 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:37 <_3b> if you use clisp specific features, don't expect them to work outside clisp 01:40:42 man there are lot of standards - POSIX, ECMA, AMSI, ANSI 01:40:46 in addition, there are libraries that let you use extra-standard features in ways that work on many implementations 01:40:50 plage` [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 01:42:01 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:42:04 -!- plage` is now known as plage 01:52:22 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:54:03 sellout [n=greg@12.130.118.13] has joined #lisp 01:55:33 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.202.25] has joined #lisp 01:57:46 Bigshot_: in this case there's only ANSI CL + maybe CLTL3 when it comes out (which is so far more like collection of code you can get in form of libraries) 01:58:14 I'm waiting for CLTL3++ boost 01:58:51 ... where was that ICBM launchkey... 02:00:58 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:03:12 p_l: In Emacs CTL-X LETS-PLAY-THERMONUCLEAR-WAR It's under games. 02:04:37 JEdit + clisp = possible? 02:05:11 <_3b> nope, the units are different 02:07:08 <_3b> more seriously, define 'possible'... you can edit lisp files, and load them from clisp as long as both can see the same filesystem and use the same encodings, so that much probably works 02:07:35 <_3b> you probably won't get as much benefit from that as from a setup where you editor and lisp can talk directly though 02:10:05 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:15:21 _3b can i automagically load file into clisp at the press of a button from jedit? 02:15:41 <_3b> Bigshot_: no idea, never used jedit 02:16:20 you can magically edit sources of jedit to do so 02:17:52 WarWeasle: that could have been much funnier if you had enough emacs experience to not screw it up :P 02:22:46 Ralith: Yeah, I'm not on the top of my game tonight. Will be back tomorrow with better quips. 02:26:10 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2EBC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:30 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable236.102-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:30:39 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable236.102-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 02:31:43 -!- cdwillis [n=dwm@c-98-223-195-59.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:31:47 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@177.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:37:41 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has left #lisp 02:37:52 cdwillis [n=dwm@c-98-223-195-59.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:02 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:52:30 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.69.192] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:52:38 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.165.238] has joined #lisp 03:01:38 -!- gnoo is now known as piso 03:04:06 heh... personally, I'm fond of ENABLE 03:05:50 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:05:53 jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:06:24 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:11:25 foobar__ [n=_prip@host156-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:12:36 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:12:45 -!- cdwillis [n=dwm@c-98-223-195-59.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:13:29 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host27-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:14:53 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:15:41 nuclear_chaos_bo [i=4cac0c91@gateway/web/freenode/x-db4bf06a17473671] has joined #lisp 03:20:12 plage` [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 03:21:29 hawkbill [n=pradyus@117.192.4.224] has joined #lisp 03:21:36 karol [n=karol@S01060050181cfee5.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:33 Excuse me, did someone ever get sbcl to behave under valgrind? I'm bored and playing around, but it just won't work. 03:22:55 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:47 karol: I seriously doubt it - I'm not sure, but I think I recall once hearing that valgrind didn't like self-modifying code 03:24:01 does (lambda (*foo*) (print *foo*)) shadow the binding for *foo*? 03:24:18 if *foo* is special 03:24:41 p_l: I'm running valgrind with options preparing it for smc. No dice anyway. 03:24:48 if *foo* is lexical, too, but only lexically 03:24:52 stassats: can I do (lambda (*foo*) (declare (special *foo*)) ..), or does the declaration need to be before that? 03:24:53 -!- implementor [i=4892dea4@gateway/web/freenode/x-de6de0ba89f74895] has quit ["Page closed"] 03:25:48 sykopomp: either declare special, or declaim before defining your function 03:26:55 karol: what are you trying to do? 03:27:04 Cure my boredom. 03:27:10 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:27:12 -!- plage` is now known as plage 03:27:25 Actually, it would be neat to cachegrind my code, but again... boredom cures... 03:27:29 stassats: thanks 03:27:50 -!- happypony [n=happypon@c-98-223-195-59.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:28:06 Clisp won't run either. 03:28:20 meh, asdf:system-source-file doesn't do what it says. 03:29:07 karol: on topic of memory use, while I can't give you equivalent of cachegrind, you can play with paging data analysis (I suspect you could try instrumenting GC as well) 03:29:23 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@147.52.194.217] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:30:09 I probably could, but I'm not very smart. I will look into paging, although sbcl's (time ...) and (room) do that quite well. 03:30:26 (memory usage research, I mean) 03:30:51 karol: yeah, but getting data from linux kernel on how it actually ran memory management had been quite hard for long time 03:31:25 karol: http://github.com/unya/linux-vm-analizer/tree/master <--- have some simple defuns 03:31:58 Thanks. 03:32:47 karol: I'll have to add later parsing for memory maps, right now you have to know already what addresses you're interested in 03:34:40 Pretty neat. I'll play with it later, for now I will try valgrind on some scheme implementations... 03:37:16 karol: try chicken. I just can't wait to see valgrind complain about stack allocation ^_^ 03:41:11 i wonder if they make stickers with little lozenges on them to cover up the Windows symbol on Mod4? 03:42:43 *ausente* oi 03:43:21 dto: and not only that. I'd prefer a small "Hyper" and "Super" myself, though 03:43:46 hmm. 03:44:44 (or simply get a Symbolic keyboard, but I don't know how much it will cost me) 03:45:38 I heard many good things about the IBM spring keyboards. Never used one though... 03:47:09 if you mean Model M, yeah, quite good, but fucking loud 03:47:30 Quadre` [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #lisp 03:47:41 even the much quieter "no-click" keyboards are too loud for me now :/ 03:49:08 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:49:29 *p_l* would like something with similar mechanism to keyboard in his R61 03:51:51 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-66.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:51:58 Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:53:12 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.202.25] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:59:55 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:03:28 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@117.192.4.224] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:09:55 -!- foobar__ [n=_prip@host156-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:10:16 foobar__ [n=_prip@host121-9-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 04:12:48 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:13:57 p_l: like the PCjr keyboard? 04:14:52 PCjr? 04:15:28 don't tell me you weren't born yet... 04:15:46 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.43.185] has joined #lisp 04:16:17 http://www.digibarn.com/collections/devices/pcjr-chicklet-keyboard/index.html 04:16:51 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:17:32 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-66.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:18:26 ... is that.... rubber keys O.o? 04:19:44 and no, I wasn't born yet, not to mention that probably none of those were ever sold where I lived 04:20:16 I think it would rarer than getting a fully equipped Alpha or maybe even a Lisp Machine :D 04:21:20 speaking of obscure computing devices, i've got the bebox in the garage ready to send it off to the recycling depot unless anyone wants it... 04:21:47 slyrus_: donate it to museum instead of recycling? 04:22:07 which museum would that be? 04:22:41 the curbside museum of retrocomputing curiosities 04:23:05 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:25:14 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:26:04 but seriously, donate it somewhere. Nothing pains me more than lost history. 04:27:04 I have a PC164 evaluation board with 1G of ram and a 4G hard drive. It sits in the basement because I can't bring myself to get rid of it. 04:27:24 That's a 500MHz Alpha. 04:27:29 while experience teaches us that we rarely learn from history, going to computing part of Museum of Technology and not seeing even one complete Odra 1300 made me feel rather bad 04:28:20 probably the closest to working of "big iron" was Alpha-based Cray T3E 04:29:41 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 04:31:16 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:32:56 plage` [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 04:36:12 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:07 -!- karol [n=karol@S01060050181cfee5.vs.shawcable.net] has quit ["leaving"] 04:39:50 plage`` [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 04:40:11 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:40:14 -!- plage`` is now known as plage 04:41:22 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:32 transputer 04:46:05 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 04:51:20 the Museum of Computing in Silly Valley is worth a visit 04:53:27 nuntius [n=nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:11 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 04:56:15 -!- plage` [n=user@58.186.146.148] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:01:07 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 05:03:59 dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:45 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:04:58 -!- dto` is now known as dto 05:08:58 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:09:56 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 05:10:24 Is anyone here familiar with making things run fast on Allegro? 05:10:47 fusss [i=73801424@gateway/web/freenode/x-c8824859d707bd80] has joined #lisp 05:10:52 greetings 05:11:01 eli: compile? 05:12:04 anyone know if sbcl's LOAD takes an :external-format argument like LW's? I am on a new box and only have LW, my development lisp, but I deploy on sbcl (remotely) 05:12:31 stassats: Yeah, I'm compiling, of course, and I'm also doing (proclaim '(optimize (speed 3) (safety 1) (space 0) (debug 0))), and still things are ridiculously slow with some simple test. 05:12:45 can i assume that sbcl will be able to load a UTF-8 file and do the right thing, or do i have to mess with utf-8 conversion? 05:13:09 fusss: it does take :external-format 05:13:11 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 05:13:36 stassats: absolutely great to know! cheers! 05:13:49 -!- nuclear_chaos_bo [i=4cac0c91@gateway/web/freenode/x-db4bf06a17473671] has quit ["Page closed"] 05:13:59 eli: i'm not very familiar with ACL, but what test? 05:14:36 stassats: I think I found the problem. 05:14:36 clhs load 05:14:36 fusss: per standard 05:14:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_load.htm 05:15:12 I was compiling a function for testing, but ran (test (dotimes ...)) -- so the dotimes was taking a lot of time. 05:16:24 sweeeeet 05:18:07 -!- nuntius [n=nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:19:06 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:19:24 -!- fusss [i=73801424@gateway/web/freenode/x-c8824859d707bd80] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 05:20:37 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-41-17.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:27:27 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 05:28:09 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:41:39 ejs [n=eugen@69-51-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:03 commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 05:43:48 is anyone here familiar with implementing a dijkstra's algorithm in lisp? 05:44:28 -!- abeaumont_ [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:46:49 commmmodo: did you try google? 05:46:56 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has left #lisp 05:48:22 commmmodo: the first link i found has an implementation. I'm pretty sure i don't like it, but it's there. 05:49:19 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 05:50:37 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 05:50:51 drewc: yeah, i actually just figured it out. i have a situation where i have multiple possible starting points. i don't think there's a faster way than running it for as many times as starting points I have. 05:51:18 drewc: do u? 05:51:35 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:51:45 that's the only deterministic option with dijkstra 05:51:50 drewc: i got the implementation on lock 05:52:01 and pretty much any other algorithm with the same general idea 05:53:29 commmmodo: it depends. for dijkstra, i think you're right.... but without knowing exactly what you need to do, i can't say that there mightn't be a better algorithm to do that :) 05:53:55 (i blame the double negative on the rum) 05:54:16 thanks guaqua... drew, im making a program that calculates the shortest path for fingerings on a stringed musical instrument (violin, guitar). 05:54:17 sailing-irc? :) i'm on bus-irc 05:54:27 lol 05:54:43 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 05:54:51 sailing? that's the magic word! 05:55:12 *drewc* is leaving with the tide in 3:10 05:55:33 actually on my way to a regatta, first start in about 2 hours 05:55:39 or what do you call them in english 05:55:44 heat? 05:55:47 'regatta' 05:55:53 ") 05:55:58 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56:11 something like that guaqua 05:56:16 don't really know what you mean by that, but yes :) 05:56:23 heat 05:56:35 but yeah, thanks for your help guys 05:57:06 no, we call them regatta's... there may be 'heat's in a race, but the races are held as part of the regatta. 05:57:19 minion: thwap to drewc 05:57:20 drewc: have a look at thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 05:58:08 ball's 05:59:05 guaqua: fair winds and following seas! i need to go shower and pack :) 05:59:35 yay. the hardest part ahead, packing :) thanks, you too! 06:00:32 forecast is for 25-30kts right on our nose ... packing will be easy compared :) 06:01:33 ouch, that's no good 06:03:03 and a bloody 2am start to get the tide ... it's going to be one of those. 06:03:47 part of the 'fun', i guess 06:03:56 (we're 15 miles up the river with opposing wind at the mouth... if we don't make slack it's going to be lumpy as hell) 06:04:29 but that 06:04:35 's what its all about 06:04:37 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:05:01 if you don't hear from me in a week. call the coast guard :) 06:05:47 nngh :) 06:07:09 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 06:08:25 -!- ahaas [n=ahaas@neptune.pettomato.net] has left #lisp 06:17:47 -!- ejs [n=eugen@69-51-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:19:47 commmmodo: you could try caching routes, but AFAIK Dijkstra's algorithm was more of mathematical tool than programmers' 06:20:55 and caching would probably result in something that isn't exactly Dijkstra in results ;-) 06:21:06 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:21:24 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 06:24:56 KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 06:25:39 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:30:46 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:33:00 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:34:03 -!- lclark` is now known as lclark 06:35:44 abeaumont_ [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 06:39:55 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:40:21 mrSpec [n=_@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 06:40:26 Hello 06:42:22 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:42:41 arquebus [i=sdf@189.221.2.98] has joined #lisp 06:44:03 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-136-240.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:46:14 -!- sellout [n=greg@12.130.118.13] has quit [] 06:48:08 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-40-3.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:48:09 commmmodo_ [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 06:50:04 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:50:06 saikat [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:07 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:03 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has left #lisp 06:53:35 ejs [n=eugen@222-66-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:53 good morning 07:05:23 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 07:06:15 -!- ejs [n=eugen@222-66-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:07:59 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-136-240.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 07:15:12 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:17:15 cracki [n=cracki@45-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:17:16 Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:17:41 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:19:10 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 07:19:23 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-84-151.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:21:08 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:23:12 -!- arquebus [i=sdf@189.221.2.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:24:40 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 07:25:08 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest31526 07:30:45 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 07:30:59 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-9-6.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:31:57 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:34:52 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 07:38:56 g'day #lisp 07:39:05 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 07:39:43 glogic_ [n=glogic@5ess.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:58 -!- glogic_ [n=glogic@5ess.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:40:49 -!- lclark [n=user@cpe-98-148-69-2.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:41:22 -!- Gertm` is now known as Gertm 07:41:55 plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 07:41:58 Good afternoon! 07:42:23 plutonas [n=plutonas@147.52.194.195] has joined #lisp 07:44:20 glogic_ [n=glogic@5ess.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:26 -!- glogic_ [n=glogic@5ess.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:45:52 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:35 good morning 07:47:05 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-73-96.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:48:57 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-96.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:53:26 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:54:47 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:54 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 07:55:37 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-199-164.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 07:56:52 mvillene1ve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-21-105.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:01:53 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-29.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 08:03:08 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:03:29 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:07 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:04:48 Good time of the day! 08:04:54 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:06:55 -!- commmmodo_ [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:07:34 mega1 [n=mega@pool-05495.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:09:46 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-40-3.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:09:55 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:11:26 -!- mvillene1ve is now known as mvillenneuve 08:11:30 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:12:36 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit ["leaving"] 08:21:41 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:23:25 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:23:49 mrSpec` [n=_@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 08:23:54 -!- mrSpec [n=_@88.208.105.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:24:02 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:25 I'm planning to write (as a learning experience) an application that will keep some data in postgresql. What would you suggest I should use for interfacing the database? cl-sql? Or is there something more psql specific? 08:27:40 minion: postmodern 08:27:41 postmodern: Postmodern is a library for interacting with PostgreSQL databases through SQL. http://www.cliki.net/postmodern 08:27:46 Ah. 08:27:56 Thx. 08:27:57 -!- Guest31526 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 08:33:25 -!- saikat [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 08:35:44 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-124-208.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:40:23 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:42:22 http://www.milepost.eu/ This got posted to ./ just now. Looks like we're one step closer to 'clever enough compiler', eh? :) 08:42:59 you mean sufficiently clever? 08:43:06 yes 08:43:07 >_> 08:43:52 it's not exactly true AI compiling the code, but machine learning is a big step towards that, right? 08:46:13 'machine learning' => marketing speach for a branch of AI ;-) 08:46:28 mhm 08:49:27 frozsyn [n=frozsyn@blm93-2-82-229-63-104.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:46 i'm not sure how great that thing really is -- it sounds pretty cool but then you realise they're just trying different flags to gcc 08:51:25 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 08:52:03 ilitirit: I think PGO is possibly more potent, this looks as more of expert system for finding correct config 08:54:01 last time i heard about it they were talking about giving different flags to different functions 08:55:28 it's not a bad idea but it's not a giant leap forward -- as far as my very limited reading about it goes 08:57:06 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:57:37 well, GCC has reputation for being unwieldy regarding such modifications 09:04:45 serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-154-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:04:54 hello 09:05:14 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:07:22 demmel [n=demmel@p5B0C31D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:09:03 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:12:05 sykopomp: when will it (milepost) be implemented in sbcl? 09:12:22 lispnooby [i=d98568e1@gateway/web/freenode/x-15f01e2e199ddff1] has joined #lisp 09:12:46 nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:13:04 sbcl doesn't have much options 09:16:29 well, we probably could get some kind of PGO 09:17:18 glogic_ [n=glogic@5ess.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:33 -!- glogic_ [n=glogic@5ess.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:17:53 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:18:30 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:10 ZabaQ [n=john_con@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:31 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-140.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:23:40 -!- mrSpec` is now known as spec[away] 09:25:26 dys` [n=andreas@p5B317E0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:27 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A03D8.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:26:28 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.195.206] has left #lisp 09:31:15 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B316DED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:31:47 mstevens_ [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:32:58 -!- foobar__ is now known as prip 09:33:04 -!- dys` is now known as dys 09:38:02 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 09:38:40 -!- ZabaQ [n=john_con@playboxgames.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:39:02 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has left #lisp 09:40:22 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:42:34 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229238109.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:42:34 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 09:45:14 lacedaemon [n=algidus@88-149-209-143.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 09:45:44 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-29.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:45:50 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 09:46:55 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 09:49:46 robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has joined #lisp 09:50:28 -!- demmel [n=demmel@p5B0C31D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 09:51:53 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 09:52:23 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-154-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:52:26 serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-154-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:52:29 -!- robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:53:56 benny [n=benny@i577A03D8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:55:20 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-05495.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:55:55 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 09:56:04 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:56:23 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest66358 09:56:25 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:56:36 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 09:57:48 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-2-148-164.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:48 cracki_ [n=cracki@45-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:02:40 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:04:26 fiveop_ [n=fiveop@g229224011.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:05:47 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229238109.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:06:41 ZabaQ [n=johnc@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 10:07:23 I was reading the release notes for ABCL, and they mention the Google App Engine. Is anyone running ABCL on the App Engine? 10:11:30 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-39-4-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:12:12 -!- cracki [n=cracki@45-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:12:54 HG` [n=wells@xdslff212.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:15:05 -!- Guest66358 is now known as lexa_ 10:15:32 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 10:16:13 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 10:16:45 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest52158 10:27:56 lambda-avenger [n=roman@adsl-63-197-150-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:06 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:35:02 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 10:35:38 how to see for example if sin is a generic function? 10:35:51 clhs sin 10:35:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sin_c.htm 10:36:09 "Function" 10:36:17 clhs describe-object 10:36:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_desc_1.htm 10:36:36 "Standard Generic Function" 10:36:47 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F765.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:31 sin not being a method could interfere with a religious simulation ;) 10:41:04 s/method/generic function/ 10:43:41 it says it is a function 10:44:08 ZabaQ: #abcl might be a good place to ask. 10:44:12 so a new function will be re-defined for it to take arrays 10:45:53 you are not encouraged to redefine functions in the CL package 10:53:42 -!- spec[away] [n=_@88.208.105.1] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:55:12 you could create your own package and shadow cl:sin, leo2007 10:55:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/82945 or so 10:56:03 you need an indulgence to shadow your sins! 10:56:11 hehe 10:56:27 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:57:55 -!- Guest52158 is now known as lexa_ 10:58:25 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest80709 10:58:37 *stassats* had to install mudballs in order to try cl-smoke 10:58:52 -!- mstevens_ [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 11:00:42 stassats: you got it working? I remember trying, but can't remember now if I got anywhere... 11:01:44 if it is generic function then i can be extended 11:02:21 if it is, but it is not 11:02:28 ? 11:02:59 thijso: i got hello world working 11:03:03 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:04:14 elderK [n=elderK@222-152-95-210.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:04:40 Is hunchentoot stop working in the latest CVS 11:04:44 ? 11:05:30 The 1.0 release has some rather serious bugs. 11:06:20 (And yes I use clbuild and coud just update and check..) 11:08:03 done, no it doesn't 11:09:35 clbuild doesn't have development version of hunchentoot 11:09:56 jmbr [n=jmbr@guest245.gti.ssr.upm.es] has joined #lisp 11:10:05 It has the latest CVS version 11:10:38 hunchentoot doesn't use CVS 11:10:52 I have been on vacation in tuscany Italy so I haven't updated for a while 11:11:12 Trust me there is a CVS version 11:11:18 i don't trust you 11:11:31 Then check for youself 11:11:37 i think Hans is using a svn repo. at bknr.net .. at least he did that a couple of months back 11:11:41 younder: could you provide a repository url? 11:12:04 sure, just have to look trhogh the clbuild file 11:12:39 there is luis's darcs mirror of hunchentoot releases and development versions in svn at bknr 11:12:44 clbuild uses the former 11:13:28 so you haven't updated anything 11:13:45 unless you were in Italy for half a year 11:16:04 You are right it was a DARCS repository 11:16:38 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 11:16:42 and the latest version in it is 1.0 11:16:57 And no nothing of the huncentoot was updated 11:17:17 1,0.. I said that 11:17:38 sorry for the norwegian punctuation 11:17:39 you can modify clbuild to fetch huncentoot from bknr 11:17:48 ahh 11:18:49 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has joined #lisp 11:18:58 younder: http://bknr.net/trac/browser/trunk/thirdparty/hunchentoot 11:19:10 thanks. 11:19:14 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:26:08 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:29:38 minion: memo? 11:29:39 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``memo''. 11:29:58 minion: help memo? 11:29:59 To send a memo, say something like ``minion: memo for nick: the memo''. I'll remember the memo for any nick which is the same as the given nick, +/- differences in punctuation, and any nick which is an alias for it, and give it to them when they next speak. 11:31:00 minion: memo for tmh: any idea how to unit-test a matrix operation by side-effect? 11:31:00 Remembered. I'll tell tmh when he/she/it next speaks. 11:31:21 *stassats* got webkit also working in cl-smoke 11:32:01 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-34-164.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:32:05 now i can write me a browser 11:33:25 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@guest245.gti.ssr.upm.es] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:38:05 -!- ZabaQ [n=johnc@playboxgames.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:39:43 stassats: to what ends? 11:40:06 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.43.185] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:40:09 mega1 [n=mega@3e70cc94.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:40:32 michaelw: what do you mean? 11:40:32 hmm, how does cl-smoke differ from common-qt? 11:44:15 (defun m.* (&rest args))) 11:44:20 (map-matrix #'* args)) 11:44:37 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 11:44:48 in the above function, map-matrix is defined like this (defun map-matrix (function &rest args) .... 11:45:01 clhs apply 11:45:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 11:45:21 i see 11:45:31 fiveop [n=fiveop@e179117168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:45:57 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 11:46:07 -!- fiveop_ [n=fiveop@g229224011.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:46:46 daniel__ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:50:12 cornucopic [n=r00t@115.184.240.114] has joined #lisp 11:51:42 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@45-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:52:17 lichtblau [n=user@77-22-106-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:52:29 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-124-208.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:54:07 segv [n=mb@p4FC1BE70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:00 -!- Guest80709 is now known as lexa_ 11:55:30 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest66955 11:57:30 luis: cl-smoke and CommonQt are very similar. 11:58:20 The vague goal is to merge the two projects, but minor differences and lack of time mean that this merger won't happen overnight. 11:58:33 Tobias has told me that he recently added compatibility support for CommonQt's API. So if you develop for CommonQt, your code should work with cl-smoke, too. 11:58:36 The converse isn't true, because CommonQt doesn't have the CLOS integration cl-smoke has. 11:59:13 Other differences are: 11:59:24 Licensing. GPL plus linking exception vs. BSD. 11:59:55 Startup overhead. A few seconds of CLOS stuff at load time for cl-smoke. 12:00:21 Windows support: CommonQt works on Windows, while cl-smoke hasn't been ported to Windows yet. 12:00:43 Build system: Mudballs vs. ASDF 12:01:26 hello. 12:01:38 lichtblau: do you use commonqt for your project? 12:02:28 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:02:32 krumholt [n=krumholt@92.193.117.180] has joined #lisp 12:03:02 stassats: I've recently started developing a Qt backend to Portable Hemlock, so I'm still toying with that when I find the time. But I'm not using CommonQt for any project at work (yet), because we have too much other stuff to do. 12:03:19 -!- Guest66955 is now known as lexa_ 12:03:22 in other words, is it stable enough for usage? 12:03:46 *stassats* already hung repl twice and met ldb with cl-smoke 12:03:48 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest45019 12:03:53 is there a way to access the variable list of a lambda/defun? i do have things like (defun foo (&rest parlist &key x y (z 'default-z)...) ...) now i would like to create a parameter-list containing all supplied and all parameters containing their init-form-value. is there a more direct way then appending them one-by-one? 12:03:58 I never know how to answer this kind of question. 12:04:35 don't crashes too much 12:04:43 to be annoying 12:04:54 Personally, I manage to wedge my REPL all the time without using any Qt at all. :-) 12:05:35 (I mean "break my REPL" or whatever.) 12:05:47 HET2 [i=diman@128.131.95.22] has joined #lisp 12:06:03 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@115.184.240.114] has quit ["so long.."] 12:07:34 blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.28.224] has joined #lisp 12:08:50 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:09:39 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:11:44 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:19:33 lenst [n=user@90-229-133-25-no52.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:43 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 12:20:33 CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.109.215] has joined #lisp 12:24:01 dto: what's up (or down) with your website/ 12:24:02 ? 12:25:38 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B317E0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:28:27 -!- elderK [n=elderK@222-152-95-210.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [] 12:29:07 -!- lambda-avenger [n=roman@adsl-63-197-150-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 12:29:47 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:29:55 -!- abeaumont_ [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:31:52 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 12:32:17 -!- HET2 [i=diman@128.131.95.22] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:38:57 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@84-75-21-37.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [] 12:40:00 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:40:54 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:45:38 stassats: (sorry, got sidetracked) it sounded like you had some ideas in mind for a lispy web browser. (or is it just "because you can"?) 12:46:20 michaelw: the latter 12:46:28 i see :) 12:48:39 -!- Guest45019 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 12:49:53 ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:24 how to do something and if there's error, do something else 12:52:30 something like condition-case in elisp 12:52:51 handler-case, handler-bind 12:53:10 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84.217.2.104] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:53:13 leo2007: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html 12:53:22 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:54:01 yes, that's a better answer. After so many years my reflexes still fool me... 12:54:33 michaelw: I am not sure, reading the clhs about handler-case might be quicker 12:54:43 thanks, I'm reading it 12:55:29 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:56:01 quek [n=read_eva@210.253.202.182] has joined #lisp 12:56:51 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-84-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:58:17 mrSpec [n=_@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 12:58:51 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:59:20 Nshag [i=user@193.248.203.142] has joined #lisp 13:02:20 pjb pasted "handler-case for emacs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82951 13:02:47 leo2007: loose the bad habit for condition-case in emacs. Use my emacs handler-case macro! 13:03:39 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-2-148-164.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:03:50 dreish [n=dreish@207.138.47.173] has joined #lisp 13:04:04 how can i modify a symbol-name inside a makro? like in (defmakro testmakro (symbols) (loop for symbol in symbols collect `:,symbol)) which does not work. 13:04:35 (testmakro a b c) -> (:a :b :c) 13:04:42 macro, not makro 13:04:47 ups. 13:05:15 (intern (symbol-name 'a) :keyword) 13:05:19 you must construct a new symbol: (intern (symbol-name symbol) :keyword) 13:05:29 tsuru [n=user@69.245.36.64] has joined #lisp 13:07:26 matimago: but that won't be portable, condition-case is stardard in Emacs 13:07:50 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-30-160.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:04 macros are standard in Emacs too 13:08:09 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.4.36] has joined #lisp 13:08:59 ;) 13:09:10 I have save the paste to my emacs library 13:09:12 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-84-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:09:17 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:57 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 13:10:56 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e70cc94.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:11:24 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@92.193.117.180] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:11:28 -!- vy [n=user@nbvyazici.cs.bilkent.edu.tr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:11:44 could someone give me an example of using handler-case similar to (condition-case nil (....) (error ....)) 13:12:41 (handler-case (error "FOO") (error () 42)) 13:13:16 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 13:13:44 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest44837 13:13:46 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:14:51 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:15:45 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:15:54 stassats: where's the body 13:16:04 oh 13:16:05 isee 13:16:57 body? i didn't kill anyone! 13:19:12 leo2007: you can portably insert any code in your emacs code! 13:19:17 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@x-132-204-253-119.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 13:20:45 yes 13:21:07 -!- Guest44837 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:21:09 thank you for your help, I just to get this done and I'll come back to learn it properly 13:21:24 -!- mrSpec [n=_@88.208.105.1] has quit [] 13:21:31 -!- tsuru [n=user@69.245.36.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:24:16 do you know any library for low discrepancy sequences low-discrepancy sequences 13:25:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructions_of_low-discrepancy_sequences 13:25:31 does dash make difference? 13:26:01 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 13:26:27 stassats: sorry I thought I was pasting the url 13:26:39 so no difference 13:27:57 -!- Swords2 [n=kohii@pool-71-112-25-59.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:28:54 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:16 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:31:08 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:29 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-30-160.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:35:08 danlei [n=user@217.226.213.75] has joined #lisp 13:35:34 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-20-189.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:36:04 mega1 [n=mega@3e44ab5b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:36:39 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:37:43 jmbr [n=jmbr@144.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:39:22 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.109.215] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:39:53 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:41:38 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:42:24 serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-159-159.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:44:26 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 13:44:47 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 13:47:46 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:41 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@86.50.69.116] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:48:58 Taggnostr [n=x@86.50.69.116] has joined #lisp 13:51:51 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 13:52:07 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:14 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 13:53:15 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@134.184.43.185] has joined #lisp 13:54:17 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:55:21 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-124-208.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:56:12 CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.104.43] has joined #lisp 13:56:38 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.104.43] has quit [Client Quit] 13:57:51 CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.104.43] has joined #lisp 13:59:06 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-154-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:59:58 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-20-189.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:00:22 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-111-221.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:03:59 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 14:04:20 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 14:04:37 Greetings. 14:04:38 tmh, memo from leo2007: any idea how to unit-test a matrix operation by side-effect? 14:05:42 I presume that means a destructive matrix operation. 14:09:15 -!- kefka [n=user@ec2-75-101-205-165.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:09:26 kefka [n=user@ec2-75-101-205-165.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:16 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:52 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:12:59 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:13:30 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@217.228.125.27] has joined #lisp 14:14:56 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host137.190-138-149.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:15:48 Tordek [n=tordek@host158.200-82-19.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:17:00 -!- lujz [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-3-247.dynamic.amis.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:18:11 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:45 -!- nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 14:19:12 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-40-97.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:46 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-111-221.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:20:49 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 14:22:23 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:23:43 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:27:47 -!- quek [n=read_eva@210.253.202.182] has left #lisp 14:28:39 trebor pasted "macro expansion (novice)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82954 14:28:40 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:29:18 clhs eval 14:29:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_eval.htm 14:29:26 null lexical environment 14:30:11 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:31:09 -!- lispnooby [i=d98568e1@gateway/web/freenode/x-15f01e2e199ddff1] has quit ["Page closed"] 14:31:31 Muld [n=wr23@88-196-32-138-dsl.noe.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 14:32:43 trebor_dki: don't use eval unless you know what you are doing 14:32:56 trebor_dki: what do you want to achieve? 14:33:53 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 14:35:10 i would like to write a simple macro which generates a list of symbols and their value. 14:35:30 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-124-208.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:35:52 (let ((x 1) (y 2)) (symbol-listing x y)) -> (x 1 y 2) 14:36:06 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:26 and later on (let ((x 1) (y 2)) (keyword-listing x y)) -> (:x 1 :y 2) 14:36:26 Don't forget the optional package argument. 14:38:07 clhs do-symbols 14:38:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_sym.htm 14:38:17 See if that does what you want. 14:38:25 Or at least gets you started. 14:39:18 (defmacro list-of-symbols (&rest symbols) `(list ,@(loop for symbol in symbols collect `',symbol collect symbol))) 14:39:57 tmh: as far as i understand, do-symbols iterates over all symbols in a package. i would like to give a list of symbols. 14:40:06 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:08 Oh, missed that requirement. 14:40:35 *trebor_dki* reading stassats post 14:44:05 stassats: what is ,@(loop good for? 14:44:16 i mean, i do not understand this part. 14:44:55 clhs ,@ 14:44:56 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for ,@. 14:44:59 clhs @ 14:45:00 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for @. 14:45:05 clhs ` 14:45:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 14:45:23 dbalcer [i=dbalcer@151.81.14.65] has joined #lisp 14:45:34 in that case, the same as `(list . ,(loop ....)) 14:46:43 sepult [n=user@87.78.101.105] has joined #lisp 14:46:58 -!- dbalcer [i=dbalcer@151.81.14.65] has left #lisp 14:48:08 is this a dotted list? 14:48:24 no, it's not 14:48:46 read that link 14:49:01 *trebor_dki* reading 14:51:30 Xach: hi, seems fine... at http://dto.github.com/notebook 14:51:52 -!- sepult [n=user@87.78.101.105] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:52:22 Anywhere ``,@'' may be used, the syntax ``,.'' may be used instead to indicate that it is permissible to operate destructively on the list structure produced by the form following the ``,.'' , right? 14:53:22 tmh: yes, destructive 14:53:23 well, it ,. is just a destructive counterpart ofr ,@ 14:53:33 s/it// 14:54:00 trebor_dki: it's different from . , 14:54:22 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 14:55:15 '(a b c . (a)) = '(a b c a) 14:55:21 stassats: nevertheless, do i understand you right, that you used ,@ in order to slice the result of the loop? 14:55:41 right 14:55:42 stassats: better example: '(g a t t a c . (a)) = '(g a t t a c a) 14:55:48 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:52 ;-) 14:56:46 and `(g a t t a c ,@(list 'a)) = '(g a t t a c a) 14:57:00 tmh pasted "leo2007 - Destructive Matrix OP" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82956 14:57:30 leo2007: Actually, it could be just a LET, no reason for the LET*. 14:58:29 leo2007: The LET form would also be a handy place to set *EPSILON* for those tests. 15:00:08 tmh: a test defined like that failed on a second run 15:00:12 passed on the first run 15:00:23 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:24 I didn't something similar but was confused by this behaviour 15:00:37 milanj [n=milan@93.86.186.18] has joined #lisp 15:01:06 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-140.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:01:19 leo2007 annotated #82956 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82956#1 15:01:37 the outcome of two successive runs 15:02:39 s/didn't/did/ 15:04:19 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:05:22 leo2007: The only thing I can suggest is that you verify that the test generates a new matrix. The fact that it is failing on the second run suggests that you are not passing a new matrix to the destructive operation. 15:06:01 leo2007: Are you passing the destructive operation an array literal? (i.e. #2A(...)) 15:06:09 That behavior is undefined. 15:06:28 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:07:06 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@89.181.28.80] has joined #lisp 15:07:22 leo2007 annotated #82956 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82956#2 15:07:55 leo2007: Exactly, you are modifying a literal array. That's why. I'll annotate. 15:08:35 you mean i muse use make-array 15:08:39 must* 15:08:42 yes 15:09:18 tmh annotated #82956 "leo2007 - Use MAKE-ARRAY" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82956#3 15:09:29 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:50 trebor annotated #82954 "trying the keyword-list-generator ...." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82954#1 15:10:38 tmh: yes, that resolved it 15:10:49 leo2007: Want a little style critique? 15:10:52 trebor_dki: that's wrong 15:11:18 you generate uninterned symbols with ":" in the name 15:11:25 tmh: yes 15:11:32 which aren't keywords 15:11:59 keyword --- a symbol interned into the KEYWORD package 15:12:58 the idea was not to generate keywords, but only a list that looks like (:x 1 :y 2 ....) 15:13:12 leo2007: Model your matrix mapping routines after MAP and MAP-INTO for sequences. Something like (MAP-MATRIX function matrix &rest more-matrices) and (MAP-INTO-MATRIX function matrix &rest matrices). 15:13:19 (for further processing) 15:13:40 then why not ("X" 1 "Y" 2) 15:13:52 it will simplify further processing and won't be global 15:14:06 tmh: that is good idea 15:14:37 (let ((x 1) (y 2)) (keyword-listing x y)) -> (:x 1 :y 2) so that i can do (apply #'function-with-keyword-parameters (keyword-listing x y)) 15:15:19 well, you said not keywords, but look like keywords, and now you show example where you need exactly keywords 15:16:18 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 15:16:19 plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 15:16:22 Good evening 15:16:23 i need a list which can be used to call a function with keywords, yes, i thought that would be different to generate "real" keywords. 15:16:47 but i think i am wrong. 15:16:54 good evening plage :) back in europe? 15:17:20 you showed earlier today, that you have a wrapper function (&rest args &keys ...) is that what you need it for? 15:17:34 then you can just do (apply #'function-with-keyword-parameters args) 15:18:14 yes. that is what i do, but i have to circumvent the problem of default-values in the main-function. 15:18:18 leo2007: Actually, it should be (MAP-INTO-MATRIX function &rest matrices). Also, I think this would cover your destructive operation. 15:18:54 trebor_dki: what problem? 15:19:41 Phoodus annotated #82954 "for trebor" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82954#2 15:19:57 if (defun main (&rest args &key x y (z 'something)) (apply #'sub-function args)) is called with (main :x 1 :allow-other-keys t) then args does not include :z 'something. 15:20:46 (if i did no further faults) 15:22:22 leo2007 annotated #82956 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82956#4 15:22:26 it doesn't work as a function, because the internal function body wouldnt' see the values of x and y 15:22:28 vy [n=user@88.227.48.158] has joined #lisp 15:22:46 (defun main (&rest args &key x y (z 'something z-p)) (apply #'sub-function (if z-p args (list* :z 'something args)))) 15:22:53 tmh: http://paste.lisp.org/display/82956#4 15:23:14 In SLIME, is it possible to switch lisp implementation for a buffer? 15:23:20 trebor_dki: Does what I pasted do what you want? I know I came in late to the conversation :) 15:23:28 thanks Phoodus, now i have to manage the very last step, only symbols with non-nil value have to be colleted. 15:23:32 vy: only for a buffer? 15:23:37 stassats: Yup. 15:24:12 stassats: that is how i do it now, but i thought of processing a list of symbols. 15:24:16 trebor_dki: that shouldn't be too hard. The compile-time environment of the macro should be able to use symbol-value and test against it 15:24:31 trebor_dki: how is that better? 15:24:32 tmh: of function requires two arguments, then two matrix needs to be passed 15:24:39 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 15:24:39 s/of/if/ 15:25:08 trebor_dki: so just a (when (symbol-value symbol) ...) wrapping the (list ...) term 15:25:10 Phoodus: how can the macro know the value of the variable named by that symbol at runtime? 15:25:10 pkhuong, memo from deepfire: 1.0.29.53 is the first bad commit. 15:25:33 pkhuong: hmm, you might be right 15:25:53 if that's the case, then the macro needs to return a mapcan that gets run in the caller 15:25:54 minion: memo for deepfire: thanks, I'll try to commit the fix soon. No hotpatch, unfortunately. 15:25:55 Remembered. I'll tell deepfire when he/she/it next speaks. 15:26:05 vy: M-: (setq slime-buffer-connection connection) 15:26:13 leo2007: Was there a question in there? 15:26:42 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:45 again multiple-value-call and values ftw. There's much less need for apply and list operations than one might think. 15:26:57 stassats: What should I type instead of connection for, e.g., "*slime-repl sbcl*" implementation? 15:27:09 tmh: any suggestion in improving it? 15:27:28 tmh: I haven't used those map map-into functions yet 15:27:32 vy: list of connections is stored in slime-net-processes variable 15:27:43 select one from it 15:27:43 leo2007: A few, but now we're getting into real consulting, do you want me to quote you my rate? 15:27:44 stassats: i can be sure, that nil is no valid value for any key-word-parameter, so (i think) i do not need z-p. the idea is to check the whole list of key-word-parameters of main and add it to args-list if not being a member of that list already. 15:27:52 stassats: Thanks. 15:27:52 leo2007: :-) 15:28:09 tmh: ok, what is your rate? 15:28:35 and then calling all the sub-funcs via (apply #'sub-func args-full-list) 15:28:37 trebor_dki: well, how's that different conceptually? 15:28:54 except that you are doing it manually 15:29:13 it is desirable if it has a similar interface tho it makes no difference for me at the moment 15:29:31 leo2007: It varies depending on my interest in the project. If I find the project interesting and it looks like it has wide benefit to society, a lower rate. Grunt work, higher rate. If you are serious, I'll discuss it in a private email. 15:29:36 stassats: maybe i did not fully understand you again - i thought you wanted to check each value via if ... 15:30:09 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-41-17.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:11 tmh: I am unemployed yet 15:31:10 stassats: in my case i can copy&replace-regexps&paste the key-word-parameters 15:31:21 leo2007: I'm just yanking your chain a little. I'll annotate this post, but I really should be getting some work done. So after this, I'm going to be quiet for a while. 15:31:55 dysinger_ [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:17 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 15:33:22 tmh: ;) many thanks, I am grateful for many of your tireless helps 15:34:01 trebor_dki: you can abstract it as well 15:35:25 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 15:35:44 trebor_dki: let me clarify, you have a bunch of wrappers with different default parameters filled, right? 15:36:15 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 15:36:56 Phoodus: using `(list ,@(mapcan (lambda (symbol) (when (symbol-value symbol) (list (intern (symbol-name symbol) "KEYWORD") symbol))) symbols)) didnt work 15:37:01 stassats: yes. 15:37:32 stassats: some defaults should be part of sub-functions parameter list, but some should be in the main too. 15:38:57 the ones in the sub-function are ok, but if i want to use defaults in the main-function, those are not part of the &rest arg-list. 15:40:50 serichse1: Nope, still in HCM, but will leave in about 24h. 15:40:51 the way i do it now is to check those parameters (non-nil) and add them to the list, but i am not happy with that. (append arg-list (when z (list z)) (when z2 (list z2))...) 15:41:35 i mean (append arg-list (when z (list :z z)) (when z2 (list :z2 z2))...) 15:42:04 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@134.184.43.185] has quit [] 15:42:18 the idea is to do (append arg-list (key-word-lister z z2 ....)) 15:43:02 hefner: ping 15:43:03 -!- serichse1 is now known as serichsen 15:43:27 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:45 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 15:47:18 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@144.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:51 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-124-208.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:48:01 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:49:11 stassats annotated #82954 "how about that?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82954#3 15:49:20 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:54 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:51:05 trebor_dki: that was for you 15:51:46 sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:11 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@x-132-204-253-119.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:52:38 slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-155-166.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:53:07 pjb hi man! 15:53:11 dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:35 stassats: thank you very very much. i will have to go, but i read it definitely. 15:53:44 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:04 and thank you for your patience stassats 15:54:34 you can abstract it even further away, if you have too much such functions 15:54:46 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-67-249-254-45.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:37 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:56:02 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 15:56:56 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:57:14 dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:33 -!- lenst [n=user@90-229-133-25-no52.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:58:43 lenst [n=user@90-229-133-25-no52.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:23 if I want to deploy a commercial app with an sbcl image, is it advisable to obfuscate the code first? remove documentation strings? etc. Does anybody have experience with this? 16:01:28 advisable? 16:01:50 i advise to provide source with your app 16:02:15 it never ceases to amazes me the lengths that some software writers will go to to cripple their users 16:02:24 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:25 mkfort: well, in the sense of it being a closed-source app 16:02:27 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:28 why not just ship it with some DRM too jleija 16:02:48 drm? 16:02:53 jleija: what do you fear? 16:02:54 mkfort: if you don't cripple them, they won't need support. (at least it's the initial supposition) 16:02:56 I was being facetious 16:03:12 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-155-166.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:03:30 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:50 well, the project i'm working on is not open-source 16:04:00 this is FREENODE dude 16:04:14 and I've always done c++, so this is a non-issue 16:04:54 so I don't know if it even matters for a lisp app 16:05:07 jleija: how do you intend to deploy your application? 16:05:24 lisp was one of the primary inspirations for the free software movement... 16:05:31 with an rpm-like binary 16:05:40 dabd [n=dabd@85.139.97.68] has joined #lisp 16:06:10 mkfort: i know, and I'm sorry i'm asking this here. I like open-source, but this project is not 16:06:13 jleija: and what would be contained in that rpm? 16:06:19 mkfort: as a result of Symbolics and RMS confrontation? 16:06:29 stassats: yeah 16:06:37 hopefully just the image and related configuration files 16:06:44 and the culture of the lisp machines 16:07:31 jleija: ok, and what do you think a user could do with that? 16:08:01 jleila: tell you what; I'll give you my advice on the issue, for a flat fee or a percentage of your revenue 16:08:09 lol 16:08:58 I don't think the user will do anything other than use it, but I've never deployed a commercial app with source code. It just sounds weird, but probably would be ok with it. 16:09:14 jleija: you write machine code by hand? 16:09:23 xof: haha. very funny. You are assuming it makes money. hahaha 16:09:23 antifuchs: Still no post from yours :/ 16:09:46 I'm assuming that you derive some _revenue_. I don't care if it doesn't make you any profit 16:09:56 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:09 dto: ok. i chased some links that led to the dead freeshell. 16:10:14 serichsen: no but c++ is pretty close 16:10:15 if it doesn't make you any revenue, in what sense is it 'commercial'? 16:10:32 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:44 xof: i'm joking, i hope it makes revenue 16:10:59 machine code is at least comprehensible 16:11:15 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:16 jleija: as far as I understand, it would be not too trivial to extract source code out of a precompiled image 16:11:21 well, then, it shouldn't be unreasonable for you to pay for the time you're asking others to spend on your problem 16:11:32 dreish_ [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:11:51 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 16:12:26 xof: it is not unreasonable. i hope i can make a living with this _and_ contribute to the open-source community 16:13:23 serichsen: that's what i thought but i have limited experience with lisp 16:14:44 do you guys make a living with your open-source projects? 16:14:52 (lisp projects) 16:15:12 they help me to not die from boredom 16:15:23 *Xach* earns some money from Lisp projects, sometimes writes Lisp at work 16:16:02 as consulting/contracting? 16:16:47 jleija: from ads on http://wigflip.com/ 16:17:21 I effectively have a job because of my open source projects, and I am allowed to continue with them 16:17:22 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:17:31 ha! cool 16:17:50 Xach: how's that going, anyway? I see it's top 100,000 alexa now 16:18:01 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:05 oh? 16:18:09 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:18:44 the commercial lisps might have better support for what you are looking for 16:18:59 but they will ask you for a flat fee or a percentage of your revenue 16:19:01 ads are doing ok. sadly, motivational poster sales have dropped sharply. some people suggested the summer is to blame, or the economic slowdown. i'm not sure. 16:19:35 i'm moving in that direction, i hope. Now i just code c++ for employer and have no spare time with family and all. So this is my first attempt to escape and be independent and pick the language of my choice and have fun while earning a living 16:19:45 Xach: time for demotivational posters 16:20:07 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:23 mkfort: yeah, i know but right now i prefer to stick to sbcl 16:20:43 sbcl has commercial support too 16:20:59 really? 16:21:00 stassats: most people who actually paid for posters seemed to go for sincerity 16:21:26 jleija: yes! (You might need to pay for it, though) 16:21:45 omaru [n=omaru@148.229.1.11] has joined #lisp 16:21:56 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:22:02 -!- omaru [n=omaru@148.229.1.11] has left #lisp 16:22:10 Xach: oh, it can actually make arbitrary real-life posters? 16:22:15 Some sort of cafepress thing? 16:22:56 ah, I see; that's quite clever 16:23:09 hehehe. of course. i'm not done yet with my development but will come back to ask more about that. 16:23:09 yeah 16:23:24 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:25 zazzle has a fairly easy product-on-demand API 16:24:12 i ordered a poster for myself, to check the quality. it was just a photo of my youngest son, captioned with his name. 16:24:21 it looked great. i got his name wrong :( 16:24:44 1 yard wide gorgeous undisplayable poster 16:25:14 How could you get his name wrong? 16:25:18 and in 20 years he'll find it somewhere, and will be telling psychiatrists about it for the rest of his life :) 16:25:23 -!- Quadre` is now known as Quadrescence 16:25:39 thanks to everyone for your pointers 16:25:50 I'll name my son with some fancy unicode characters in his name! 16:26:18 ahaas [n=ahaas@neptune.pettomato.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:25 good thing not with SQL query 16:26:26 tcr: i accidentally used his older brother's middle name 16:26:27 -!- dreish [n=dreish@207.138.47.173] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:26:36 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:48 i have relatively little practice using his full name, and screwed up in that case 16:27:22 what? No stern-looking Xach frowning and speaking his full name in angry tones upon misbehaviour? 16:27:30 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.104.43] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:28:19 at his age, it's like sternly scolding a cat 16:29:07 leo2007: Still working. This is actually why I've never written a MAP-MATRIX function, there are various situations that must be considered. I'm putting together something minimal, almost there. 16:29:24 Xach: Did you show the poster to your wife? 16:29:48 -!- mvillenneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-21-105.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["leaving"] 16:30:17 tmh: thanks, I didn't realize it could take that long 16:30:47 tmh: i just use handler-case to simplify all cases 16:31:11 Xach: nice market if you can get into it, though; there are people who make a living from tshirts and posters and such of their webcomics 16:31:42 leo2007: Trying to model the map behavior closely, taking longer than I thought. 16:31:49 bolly [n=Billy@cpe-74-77-129-16.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:15 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.4.36] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:33:13 hi. i need a book recommendation. ive read PCL and ACL, should I go with Norvigs P. in AI, or On Lisp? 16:33:32 i'd vote for PAIP 16:34:06 i feel like i can read code ok, but writting is kinda tough without a lot of back and forth to the ref 16:34:10 Alternatively grab some actual code, read through it, perhaps try to enhance it 16:34:40 bolly: Sure, but reading yet another book won't help your on that 16:34:41 i'd prefer onlisp. more macro stuff in it. 16:34:42 commmmodo [n=commmmod@dhcp-11-166.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:34:52 bolly: in order to learn to write, you need to write 16:35:26 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:35:31 yeah, i was hoping PAIP had some "real examples" to work through 16:35:44 bolly: A way to learn the language, and learning to write in the language is to reimplement functions, and macros from Common Lisp. 16:36:13 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:37:14 possibly asking here for feedback 16:38:35 bolly: I like Paradigms of AI Programming 16:39:04 does PAIP stand on its own? or do you need a lot of background in ai/algorithms to make sense of it? 16:39:16 on its own 16:39:29 bolly: on its own. it is also a nice introduction to Common Lisp itself. 16:40:03 i wish i'd read it before ANSI Common Lisp 16:40:13 it's not about AI, just uses AI examples from the past 16:40:35 interesting. i assumed it was more advanced so i was waiting until later 16:41:24 it's serious and dense, but i think it's rewarding to go through it. 16:41:32 got any good code/package examples for a beginner to go through? 16:42:02 -!- dabd [n=dabd@85.139.97.68] has quit [Client Quit] 16:42:10 http://www.norvig.com/paip/ 16:42:44 bolly: it assumes you don't know anything about common lisp, and starts from there. 16:43:15 oh, you meant any code, not from the paip? 16:43:37 stassats: yeah, code in general - but that link is good too, thanks 16:44:03 bolly: well, it's good with the book 16:45:25 so while im here, is CLOS used a lot on its own? or a more functional style with a "little CLOS"? 16:45:40 CLOS is used a lot 16:45:59 -!- ausente [n=user7994@187.35.196.144] has quit ["Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de"] 16:48:08 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:48:23 bolly: with a little CLOS, yes. Large programs probably make more use of it 16:48:43 is norvig's style more like PCL or like Grahams? 16:49:13 It's idiomatic, so definitively not like Graham 16:54:00 -!- lichtblau [n=user@77-22-106-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:54:59 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44ab5b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:56:34 -!- sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:56:35 mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 16:56:54 tmh annotated #82956 "leo2007 : MAP-MATRIX and MAP-INTO-MATRIX" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82956#5 16:57:58 leo2007: That is a first cut that generally works like MAP and MAP-INTO on sequences. It needs some factoring, but it works. 16:58:03 anyone using lispbuilder-sdl under OS X? 16:58:24 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:58:32 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:07 tmh: is it a convention for internal names to start with % 16:59:38 minion: naming conventions? 16:59:39 naming conventions: Some symbol naming conventions, distilled from CLHS, the Lisp FAQ, and comp.lang.lisp. http://www.cliki.net/naming%20conventions 16:59:42 tmh: 'factored', you mean break it into smaller pieces 17:00:06 leo2007: I like it. I'm not 100% consistent in my code because sometimes I'm not sure about the overall design of the API. 17:00:12 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:00:42 leo2007: By factored, I mean not repeating similar code like the nested dotimes loops. I usually clean that stuff up after I get it to work. 17:00:51 tmh: AREF, and ROW-MAJOR-AREF are not required to check for bad indices. 17:00:59 -!- mkfort [i=CAppxHge@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:01:16 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:01:53 tmh: there's no api yet, basically I am putting all matrix operations I need in a file 17:01:59 tmh: Checking for the sizes to match up in the beginning also has the advantage that it does not cripple some parts of the matrices before signalling that error 17:01:59 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:02:45 dysinger_ [n=tim@166.129.248.108] has joined #lisp 17:02:53 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:03:25 tcr: I don't follow. That's what I do, check all the sizes to begin with. As for not checking for bad indices, I always get errors in the implementations that I use when I supply indices that exceed the bounds. 17:04:03 tmh: Oh sorry by browser brought me to leo's annotation 17:04:08 s/by/my/ 17:05:29 Swordsman [n=kohii@pool-71-112-25-59.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:44 tmh: excellent 17:07:49 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:08:17 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:31 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:09:57 mcspiff` [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 17:10:19 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:10:50 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 17:11:12 -!- mcspiff` is now known as mcspiff 17:11:36 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:11:56 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:12:03 leo2007: Well, the important thing is that it works. At this point, I'd write my unit tests. Then, I'd probably experiment with factoring and different ways of expressing the loops. I don't really like all of the redundant nested DOTIMES loops. But the key is, (1) Model your function interface and behavior after standard functions (2) Get them to work (3) Test them (4) Refine for (a) abstraction (b) performance (c) some other metric. (5) Go to ste 17:12:08 mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 17:15:36 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:15:54 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:25 tmh: yes, i'll try and do that 17:16:35 in the lispbuilder-sdl mandelbrot example im getting the error "Free-function must not be nil"...anyone have any thoughts? 17:17:49 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:22:16 leo2007: The other thing you should do, that I failed to do here, is reference existing work. I'm looking through the numerical libraries in my lisp directory now for a map-matrix. 17:23:30 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:24:29 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:25:12 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-143.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:25:16 tmh: for a more efficient code? 17:25:31 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslff212.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:26:12 leo2007: No, to avoid re-inventing the wheel. Even if you write your own version, you should read through the existing versions to capture lessons learned. 17:27:40 tmh: yes that's key too. It looks like there a few packages for matrx 17:27:55 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-154-18.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:36 My impression seems to be it is hard to write fast matrix functions in common lisp 17:29:45 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:30:34 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:42 leo2007: I think people focus on absolute numerical performance too much. My philosophy is that Common Lisp allows me to efficiently express my programs. It generally runs with sufficient performance. When it doesn't, I improve as necessary. Don't worry if your code is slower than some other language. Only ask yourself "Does it execute fast enough for my purposes?" 17:32:03 isn't Raymond Toy one of Xemacs developers? 17:32:33 leo2007, matrix stuff shouldn't be too hard in Lisp 17:32:46 It's just not going to look Lispy if it's gonna be fast 17:32:50 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 17:32:57 leo2007: have you read Didier Verna's papers? 17:33:17 deafmacro [n=user@59.92.160.45] has joined #lisp 17:33:20 tmh: I remember someone say that the speed of an implementation is not only the time from starting the program to finish, but also the time from putting the developer to work to finish 17:33:26 pjb, link? I'm curious about this too. 17:33:38 or something to that effect 17:33:48 *Adlai* likes serichsen's 'quote' 17:33:49 http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier/research/verna.06.labri-slides.pdf 17:33:50 might have been guy steele 17:33:59 ah 17:34:10 http://www.lrde.org/~didier/research/verna.06.ecoop.pdf 17:34:12 i think it was guy steeles talk about fortress 17:34:41 there was a video somewhere 17:35:00 pjb, thx. 17:35:58 *Adlai* gets readin'. 17:36:31 wow, i just discovered cl-vectorys library 17:36:41 sweet 17:36:53 pjb: thanks for contributing to my obsessive collecting of cs papers 17:37:16 pjb, when is the second paper from? 17:37:17 rlb3 [n=rlb@166.205.5.143] has joined #lisp 17:37:20 (there's no date in it) 17:37:43 2006? 17:38:14 pjb: i'll read it 17:38:19 *Adlai* is trying to read them in chronological order... 17:38:27 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Success] 17:38:47 dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:57 *Adlai* starts with the less shiny one. 17:39:11 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:39:22 milanj- [n=milan@93.87.168.184] has joined #lisp 17:39:29 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:39:35 Alright, enough gratis consulting. Off to lunch and then *real* work. 17:40:57 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:42:49 -!- rlb3 [n=rlb@166.205.5.143] has quit ["Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info"] 17:43:18 manuel___ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-036.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:46:10 -!- frodef [n=ffj@1.80-202-168.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:46:49 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:46:49 dfarm [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:12 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@166.129.248.108] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:47:23 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.186.18] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:47:58 schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-011-104.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:58 -!- Muld [n=wr23@88-196-32-138-dsl.noe.estpak.ee] has quit [Success] 17:49:13 -!- dfarm [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:53:32 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:54 tombom [i=tombom@82.31.32.241] has joined #lisp 17:55:44 jmbr [n=jmbr@144.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:55:59 holycow: what is cl-vectorys? 17:56:17 minion, tell me about cl-vectorys 17:56:17 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-vectorys''. 17:56:22 hm 17:56:27 minion, tell me about cl-vectors 17:56:28 Adlai: look at cl-vectors: cl-vectors is a pure CL vector rasterization and manipulation system. http://www.cliki.net/cl-vectors 17:56:32 maybe that? 17:56:51 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:19 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 18:01:10 sepult [n=Miranda@xdsl-87-78-101-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:02:49 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.92.160.45] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:07:17 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:07:25 ausente [n=user7994@187.35.196.144] has joined #lisp 18:07:41 -!- ausente [n=user7994@187.35.196.144] has quit [Client Quit] 18:10:46 its pretty frickin sweet 18:11:00 ah 18:11:08 and i can even read teh goddamn code and understand how to draw stuff 18:11:17 holycow: yeah, i really like it. i found it a little hard to use raw, so i made Vecto on top of it. 18:11:18 man there is a huge drawback to learning lisp 18:11:27 its made me hate basically every other language out there 18:11:43 Xach: i found it via vecto :) i'm looking at using vecto infact 18:12:00 that is called Rapid Onset Lisp Smugess, or ROLS 18:12:06 it can be treated with medication and diet 18:12:14 Xach: i'm not a programmer just a noob learning, i've wanted something like vecto where i can start mucking about easily 18:12:21 <_3b> holycow: that is a good thing, it means you didn't waste enough time using other languages to hate them on their own merits :p 18:12:22 Xach: hehehe :) 18:13:43 -!- vy [n=user@88.227.48.158] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:13:56 TR2N [i=email@89.180.191.222] has joined #lisp 18:14:29 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E453B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:34 tmh: what is ste? BTW, i have put your code in and it works without any problems. 18:16:53 Xach: i noticed cl-vectors hasn't been touched since 2007 18:16:59 for me thats not an issue 18:18:04 i'm curious what your thoughts are on the library in terms of power and capability? anything you would want to see added to it? 18:18:24 leo2007: I don't know what ste is. 18:18:49 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:19:00 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:02 holycow: cl-vectors was written for clarity first 18:19:20 holycow: a rewrite or refinement for high speed would help me out a lot. there are some things i can't do fast enough. 18:19:52 neat 18:19:53 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-67-249-254-45.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:20:09 ti seems to only do rgb, might it ever be possible to add cmyk support? 18:20:50 let me rephrase that, how big of a workload might cmyk support be? 18:21:05 it's not important, just curious 18:21:33 holycow: cl-vectors? 18:21:40 cl-vectors doesn't know anything about colors 18:21:43 only about pixel coverage 18:21:49 tmh: you mentioned "(5) Go to ste " 18:22:02 redline6561 [n=redline@c-71-56-34-130.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:03 integer division is really slow 18:22:48 leo2007: Oh, for some reason your view of step 5 was truncated -> (5) Go to step 3 and repeat as necessary or desired. 18:23:25 leo2007: do fixnum division 18:24:15 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 18:24:23 stassats: what if it is larger than fixnum? 18:24:56 I am reading Didier Verna's paper and find that integer division slowness 18:24:57 how larger? 18:25:27 for example 2^32-1 18:25:29 you can get fast word-size division too 18:25:59 unsgined-byte 32, you can, yes 18:27:05 -!- schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-011-104.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:27:16 yes, I have used that already ;) but in general how to avoid integer division slowness? 18:27:30 avoid division? 18:28:39 and avoid boxing 18:29:28 stassats: I haven't fully understood this boxing thing people keep mentioning, could you point me to some easy to understand doc? 18:29:43 leo2007: Do you know Java? 18:31:36 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:31:44 no 18:31:47 i hate java 18:31:48 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@217.228.125.27] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:32:21 is boxing a concept borrowed from java? 18:32:25 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-141-153.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:32:47 no 18:32:50 it's been called that in Lisp and ML for at least 30 years 18:33:05 it's hard to see how that could be the case, considering the timing involved; java's rather new 18:33:45 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:07 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-19-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:34:41 minion: what's boxing? 18:34:42 what would a bot like me know about boxing ? 18:35:42 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:37:20 -!- frozsyn [n=frozsyn@blm93-2-82-229-63-104.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:37:34 leo2007: probably you already found your answer, but here is a link about boxing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_type 18:39:59 leo2007: Boxing is heap-allocating a wrapper for some value 18:40:51 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-19-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:14 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 18:42:36 This whole keeping speed of division low got me interested in if it is possible to, say inside LOOP or whatever, to make sure some values are stored in registers while LOOP-ing. 18:44:09 jleija and tcr: thanks for the explantion. Can you give me an example in cl about boxing and unboxing? 18:46:00 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:12 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:49:07 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:50:54 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:12 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 18:54:05 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@144.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:54:40 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@89.181.28.80] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 18:55:21 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:56:27 jmbr [n=jmbr@42.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:57:25 leo2007: just keep incrementing a fixnum, and when it reaches its limit, cl will automatically 'box'/convert it into an integer object for big numbers 18:59:09 leo2007: this happens trasparently so you need to keep your ints (and their operations) small to prevent this. Also you can use declarations to help you manage your calculations 18:59:47 well, it won't box it on stack/registers 19:00:09 leo2007: i have to go. see you later. 19:00:15 you can do word-size math 19:01:11 <_3b> converting to bignums isn't quite the same thing as boxing 19:01:18 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-036.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 19:01:51 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:03:14 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:05:12 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-71-56-34-130.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:05:50 jleija: thanks 19:06:28 stassats`: yes, but this boxing concept seems to come up quite often in the context of optimisation, so I'd like to understand it 19:06:55 <_3b> basically the idea is that lisp values need to keep types with the values 19:07:18 <_3b> a common way to do that is to use a few bits of the value as a tag specifying what type the value is 19:07:46 redline6561 [n=redline@c-71-56-34-130.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:01 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-3879.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:06 <_3b> a fixnum is an integer that fits in the remaining bits, so can always be represented as 1 machine word 19:08:58 <_3b> once you get beyond that point, you would need to allocate space on the heap to store the actual integer, and the value would be a pointer to that space instead of the actual fixnum 19:09:10 <_3b> allocating that space is called boxing 19:09:42 fixnum also use 1 bit of a tag 19:09:45 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:09:46 schoppen1auer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:10:06 <_3b> right, it is common optimization to give fixnums 2 tags so they can be 1 bit larger 19:10:14 -!- schoppen1auer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:10:38 <_3b> to avoid boxing, the lisp needs some way to tell what type the value is without the tag 19:10:53 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1BE70.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["quit"] 19:11:08 <_3b> so for example an array with :element-type '(unsigned-byte 32) doesn't need to store type information in every element 19:11:17 _3b: that's a very clear explanation 19:11:35 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:11:40 inlining also help 19:11:46 <_3b> but an untyped array would need to allocate 1 word per element to store type data in addition to the actual values of the elements 19:12:20 <_3b> right, the other place you can avoid boxing is within functions. if the lisp knows the type of the value for a range of code, it can avoid boxing within that block of code 19:13:00 <_3b> but generally anything passed as arguments or return values to a top-level function needs type information, so has to be boxed 19:13:06 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:13:07 <_3b> inlining avoids that problem 19:13:28 and also avoids function call overhead 19:13:37 for the cost of increased code size 19:13:49 <_3b> yeah, it can also be good for type inference as well 19:13:56 froydnj [n=froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:04 _3b, i wonder why it cant cross over block code boundaries (i dont know mutch about compilers) 19:14:13 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:14:21 <_3b> milanj-: because you can recompile the functions 19:14:24 something like (usnigned-byte 32) 19:14:49 _3b: in the disassembled code, how to detect boxing? 19:15:09 sbcl can be told to use types of functions 19:15:09 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:24 hmm, yes 19:15:49 <_3b> leo2007: not sure, i'd have to look at some 19:15:52 sb-ext:*derive-function-type* 19:16:06 <_3b> leo2007: sbcl usually complains when it has to box things with high speed optimization settings though 19:16:16 <_3b> something about converting to pointers 19:16:17 hmm, can you explain stassats` 19:16:27 what? 19:16:46 you comment is connected with my question or not ? 19:16:54 _3b: ahh, i have seen that quite often 19:17:16 <_3b> milanj-: some lisps also allow block compilation to use more efficient calling conventions between things in the same block 19:17:20 milanj-: perhaps, that way type information can cross block boundaries 19:17:24 _3b: Many many thanks for your excellent explanation ;) 19:17:40 yes, i know that cmucl has that 19:17:50 when you say 'on the heap'? what does it mean? 19:18:11 the memory? 19:18:15 <_3b> 'on the heap' ~= 'not on the stack' if that is any help 19:19:13 could you elaborate a bit? 19:19:40 "heap" is what you call the pool of general-purpose allocatable memory 19:19:41 I will learn lisp properly after finish this project 19:19:42 leo2007, that is basic term 19:19:45 <_3b> if you are familiar with other languages, malloc() or new allocate on the heap 19:20:11 mmm.. Heap exhausted. Game over. 19:20:25 milanj-: yeah, I might have that concept but it is in another language 19:20:34 <_3b> which generally implies more bookkeping than allocation on teh stack, which is managed by simply resetting a pointer when the function returns 19:20:38 I mean natural language 19:21:09 there are no heaps and stacks in natural language :) 19:21:32 <_3b> boxing also usually implies more work to get to the actual data than unboxed values, so it isn't just the allocation that is a problem 19:21:38 I would love it for someone to point me to natural language that used it. :) 19:21:52 paw [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:10 hah 19:22:16 schme: I mean I learn those langues courses in Chinese and now I am doing stuff in English. Some concepts don't translate easily 19:22:37 schme: There's heap and registers, but they are abstracted away from natural language 19:23:25 *_3b* might argue that 'writing' is the heap for natural language 19:23:37 leo2007: heaps and stacks are just the same. They're not special to lisp. 19:23:38 _3b: I got the idea, yes I knew malloc and new. 19:23:44 memorizing? 19:23:54 _3b: no, that's one of archiving methods for other levels ;-) 19:24:24 leo2007: When you have a running process on your favourite unix your process has a heap and a stack. Access to them and storing stuff in 'em works a bit different. which has speed implications :) 19:25:08 schme: ;) 19:25:50 well, sometimes the stack is kinda emulated ;-) 19:26:07 Thank you all. I think I won't be completely lost when reading papers or documents talking about boxing or unboxing. Thanks to you. 19:26:44 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:29:57 -!- paw [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:31:59 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:32:27 vy [n=user@88.227.48.158] has joined #lisp 19:32:28 okflo [n=user@91-115-87-170.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:32:29 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:32:43 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:00 here is a bomb 19:34:03 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.slime.devel/8737 19:34:30 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-6-199.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:35:03 b 19:35:11 err 19:35:11 ivan_ [n=ivan@ppp83-237-219-93.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:36:11 -!- ivan_ is now known as bahuvrihi 19:36:48 leo2007: That's a funny one. 19:36:53 Helmut Eller considers dropping support for XEmacs 19:37:27 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:37:39 and proposes to one of XEmacs develepers to switch to Emacs 19:39:03 leo2007: are you using XEmacs? 19:39:09 no 19:39:19 I began with Emacs in 2005 19:39:45 frodef [n=ffj@216.80-202-168.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:40:35 That would be troublesome if that support was dropped. 19:40:50 how so? 19:41:16 I would have to install a gnu emacs and run that too. 19:41:16 not that it is great currently 19:41:47 a bit of a bugger to have two emacsen running like that at the same time it seems to me. 19:41:58 nah, abandon sxemacs 19:42:03 schme: for me only Gnu Emacs can properly handle some languages for me without much hassle 19:42:17 stassats`: Then I would have to drop a lot of the tools I use daily. 19:42:44 leo2007: That's great. I don't really have that issue. vim indents everything just fine ;) 19:42:56 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:43:04 schme: natural languages ;) 19:43:11 stassats`: or wait for the gnu people to add FFI to gnumacs I guess. But it seems someone has vetoed it out. 19:43:34 schme: the patch is around tho 19:43:45 leo2007: The patch for what? 19:43:49 ffi 19:43:53 schme: run away to climacs then 19:43:59 too much work patching stuff. 19:44:22 stassats`: Yes. It is a golden opportunity to turn to an all McCLIM environment :) 19:45:06 *stassats`* goes to crash climacs couple of times before sleep 19:45:28 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:29 pity. XEmacs was really more interesting from my pov than FSF Emacs 19:45:41 I just want my Emacs to run as long as the OS 19:46:10 leo2007: I guess you need to have init start it first thing then. 19:46:27 Unfortunately the memory usage jumps every 4-5 days 19:46:33 p_l, I'm curious -- where do you get the term `FSF Emacs', rather than `GNU Emacs'? 19:46:39 That's odd. 19:46:42 75m -> 180M -> 250M 19:46:54 usually at 250M, I restart Emacs 19:46:58 *stassats`* starts emacs from .xinitrc 19:47:01 Riastradh: Free Software Foundation 19:47:04 I guess I also need to make some lisp run nice on arm so as to avoid the emacsen setup here :S 19:47:16 p_l, yes, I know what `FSF' stands for, but why do you call GNU Emacs `FSF Emacs'? 19:47:34 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:47:54 Riastradh: Somehow I use both of those, I recall seeing both terms and it kind of rubbed on me 19:47:57 hi Riastradh 19:47:58 Hmm.. This might turn into a fun project really. 19:48:05 Riastradh: plus I'm not a FSF lover :P 19:48:10 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-9-6.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:48:14 Riastradh: I have seen FSFmacs used quite frequently. 19:48:42 there's something for paredit to improve if possible 19:48:49 the only thing to which EMACS can unambigously refer won't work on modern systems, after all :D 19:49:09 ah. battery low. time to go home 19:49:50 in lisp mode, when type #2A( it changes to #2A () 19:50:08 the space is troublesome 19:50:55 p_l, what does calling GNU Emacs `FSF Emacs' have to do with not liking the FSF? 19:51:40 Riastradh: subconscious selection of term priorities in memory recall 19:51:44 p_l, the name `GNU Emacs' is what the project calls itself, by the way -- see, for example, . 19:51:51 Riastradh: I know 19:53:16 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:53:38 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:59 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:56:32 josemanuel [n=josemanu@177.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:58:22 lambda-avenger [n=roman@adsl-63-197-150-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:46 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@177.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 20:03:07 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:03:48 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 20:04:05 md22 [n=ken@204.188.174.189] has joined #lisp 20:04:40 tombom__ [i=tombom@82.31.38.170] has joined #lisp 20:05:21 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-3879.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:06:55 in sbcl, are the majority of the ansi cl functions written in lisp themselves? 20:08:02 *_3b* would expect most have a version written in lisp 20:09:15 <_3b> some might also have lower level versions 20:09:21 are there any implementations known to be only in lisp, for my own reference 20:09:42 <_3b> does assembly count? 20:09:53 <_3b> or assembly written in a lispy style? 20:09:55 no, i dont know assembly 20:10:04 ZabaQ [n=johnc@host81-156-64-2.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:33 im looking more for, if i have a question about how a function works and i want to look it up to see how it was coded in lisp 20:10:34 bolly: iirc outside of GC and some other really low-level stuff, nearly everything is written in Lisp (or in lisp that generates assembly) 20:10:36 <_3b> so you want something without a native code compiler? 20:11:10 <_3b> you could try sacla or sicl, neither of those is complete though i think 20:11:16 yeah, something thats more for a human to read rather a compiler 20:11:37 -!- bahuvrihi [n=ivan@ppp83-237-219-93.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has left #lisp 20:11:55 bolly: (disassemble ...) and (in SLIME) M-. and M-, are your friends 20:12:06 Um. I've beein trying to get http://www.lambdatau.com/asdf/port_1.12.tar.gz but it doesn't seem to be there. Can anyone suggest a different location? The google and the wayback machine turn up zilch. 20:14:11 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-154-18.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:15:08 mm, actually google code search takes me to the source. 20:16:13 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-71-56-34-130.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:59 TDT [n=TDT@126.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:38 ZabaQ: you're right, that's actually pretty helpful 20:18:20 Has anyone worked with cl-mpi a whole lot? I'm trying to compile it, and I wish the documentation was a bit better TBH. I get the error that (LOAD-MPI-FOREIGN-LIBRARIES) is undefined, but is defined in the configuration file correctly, at least I feel it's correct. Anyone compile and get this to actually work? 20:21:11 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:22:07 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22:08 -!- tombom__ is now known as tombom 20:22:19 dysinger_ [n=tim@166.129.248.108] has joined #lisp 20:23:25 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:23:35 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:39 xan [n=xan@29.Red-83-59-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:20 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:44:14 -!- okflo [n=user@91-115-87-170.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:46:05 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:47:20 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-129-32.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:51:22 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:51:59 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:58:07 leo2007: ping 20:59:16 -!- xan [n=xan@29.Red-83-59-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:01:46 -!- prxq [n=mommer@pD95490F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:02:58 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:03:46 -!- johanbev [n=johanbev@230.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:03:47 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@42.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:04:22 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:35 importantshock [n=importan@c-24-6-159-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:19 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-124-208.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:05:40 -!- importantshock [n=importan@c-24-6-159-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:06:20 -!- zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:07:46 zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:08 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-163-175.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:08:22 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 21:09:11 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-162-165.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:34 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:09:38 In , there are two files, delimiter-space.el and cl-octothorpe.el, that, when loaded, cause paredit to omit spaces before opening delimiters in certain places from which CL convention excludes spaces, but into which paredit formerly put spaces, such as #P"/foo/bar", #2A(foo bar), &c. 21:10:17 This takes effect when Common Lisp Mode is next entered (it will not affect existing buffers in Common Lisp Mode). 21:10:48 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["destroy, despise, distrust, disobey, distrust, disarm, destroy, dispise, dissect, deny, destroy, despise, distrust... love is] 21:11:05 leo2007, in case your IRC client highlights messages addressed to you: see above. 21:11:51 lispm [n=joswig@e177126000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:20 Please test this and let me know whether it does what you want, whether you want it to do more, and whether it does what you don't want, i.e. causes any problems. 21:12:54 has anybody ever tried to use org-mode minor mode in a slime buffer? 21:13:55 I think drewc said something about planning to experiment with it 21:14:10 http://www.whatdoestheinternetthink.net/index.php?s=common+lisp&st=google 21:14:12 :( 21:14:34 is there a way to replace an item in a list? 21:14:58 SUBST ? REPLACE? 21:15:19 hey sykopomp! o/ 21:15:35 see the cons dictionary and the sequences dictionary of CLHS 21:15:37 lispm i want to replace 8 with 7 in '( 45 32 76 8 674 89 343 2 19 74 64) 21:16:10 sykopomp: http://www.whatdoestheinternetthink.net/index.php?s=common+lisp&st=all <-- slightly better results 21:16:12 -!- sepult [n=Miranda@xdsl-87-78-101-105.netcologne.de] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 21:16:16 do you know about the hyperspec? 21:16:22 clhs replace 21:16:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_replac.htm 21:16:31 clhs subst 21:16:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_substc.htm 21:16:52 clhs substitute 21:16:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sbs_s.htm 21:17:04 redline65611 [n=redline@c-71-56-34-130.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:17 substitute! 21:17:18 substitute looks good 21:17:22 hey thanks lispm 21:17:25 excuse the dumb question but is there a way to manually trigger the garbage collector in sbcl? 21:17:35 redline65611: sb-ext:gc is the function that will do it 21:17:47 back to my org-mode question 21:17:50 xach: thanks! 21:17:53 org-mode can edit tables 21:18:23 one can embed org-mode tables in other files, say, a Lisp file 21:18:49 a conversion function can then insert a converted table into another place in the Lisp file 21:19:15 so, for example, I could maintain a large DEFCLASS slot list with org-mode tables 21:19:31 and have the slot-list than inserted into a defclass 21:19:44 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-129-32.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:20:11 sykopomp: you're not on #rlx :( 21:20:14 a simpler version of that would be if the Lisp mode could align Lisp lists 21:20:27 lispm: what do you gain with this 21:20:52 I'd like in the Lisp mode to do something like this: 21:21:33 (foo :initarg :foo :initform (something) :accessor foo) 21:21:50 and have the slot lists align at the keywords 21:22:15 so that for example the DEFCLASS slot-list looks formatted like a simple table 21:22:33 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.28.224] has quit [] 21:22:37 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@e179117168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 21:22:56 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 21:23:28 or for example if I maintain some data in s-expressions, so that the 'columns' line up 21:28:05 i remember seeing someone with code formatted that way, but i don't know if they made emacs do the hard work or not. 21:29:27 I used to to that, manually 21:32:44 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:34:45 I find it annoying to deal with code that is formatted in such complex ways 21:35:08 partly because maintaining it in that way is extra work for me; I probably wouldn't mind if it were completely automated and transparent 21:35:10 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:35:40 which org-mode isn't: I love it, but I can (a) confuse it or (b) get confused myself over what a particular editing operation actually does 21:36:03 I'd suggest instead fontifying :initarg, :initform and :accessor to a very-close-to-background colour 21:36:11 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@dhcp-11-166.ucsc.edu] has quit [] 21:36:20 -!- jao [n=jao@0.Red-83-43-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:37:08 fontifying would be useful, too 21:37:47 still I was thinking that in larger classes having the columns lined up nicely helps with readability, though can generate long lines 21:38:03 I sometimes do it manually, but that is a pain 21:38:32 maxote2 [n=||||||||@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 21:39:40 fe[nl]ix: plong 21:39:45 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1CC3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:15 with the ord-mode table, I would make :initarg, :initform, :accessor, etc. headings and would enter only the 'values' in the table cells 21:41:03 hefner: could you try (:or "librt.so" "/lib/librt.so.1") ? 21:41:32 -!- maxote2 is now known as maxote 21:41:43 hefner: also, please paste the output of ls -l {,/usr}/lib/librt* 21:47:10 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-41-17.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:48:08 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:48:54 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:51:39 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:52:39 I think my vm has diverged from the state where I can reproduce this problem 21:53:04 (specifically, I had to install the libc-dev package at some point) 21:53:26 of course 21:54:22 I bet that the symlink /usr/lib/librt.so -> /lib/librt.so.1 is only installed by libc-dev :D 21:54:41 I'd have sworn it was there originally though, as I was mystified as to why it didn't see it 21:56:11 it's the same problem that patrick may had with libssl.so a few days ago(on openmcl-devel) :) 21:56:54 my anecdotal impression was that the bare .so symlinks usually came from the -dev packages, but I think that's just something I heard claimed here. 21:57:10 I'll need to keep that in mind 21:57:46 yeah, dpkg claims it was created by libc6-dev (curiously, removing libc6-dev didn't remove the symlink) 21:58:12 try purging the package 21:58:26 [df]_ [n=df@bspencer.plus.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:50 yeah, that did the trick. 21:58:57 -!- ZabaQ [n=johnc@host81-156-64-2.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.91.1"] 21:59:53 hefner pasted "ls -l {,/usr}/lib/librt*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82983 22:01:49 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.87.168.184] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:03:07 -!- [df] [n=df@bspencer.plus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:03:36 zophy[] [n=sy@host-27-92-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:03 ausente [n=user7994@187.35.196.144] has joined #lisp 22:05:39 -!- tombom [i=tombom@82.31.38.170] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 22:07:04 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:09:06 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 22:12:33 mkfort [i=dSEGcZLd@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:43 -!- bolly [n=Billy@cpe-74-77-129-16.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["peace!"] 22:13:58 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host158.200-82-19.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:14:47 -!- zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Success] 22:15:16 -!- vy [n=user@88.227.48.158] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:01 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:40 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:16:50 Tordek [n=tordek@host158.200-82-19.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:21:41 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:18 -!- danlei [n=user@217.226.213.75] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:29:03 -!- lenst [n=user@90-229-133-25-no52.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:29:42 mogunus1 [n=marco@wsip-70-184-14-138.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:57 Hello. Is there an easy way to use clbuild to install sbcl system/wide? 22:31:40 Can I just change target_dir on line 47 to /usr/local, or is that really a bad idea? 22:36:55 hefner: done 22:37:37 -!- Nshag [i=user@193.248.203.142] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:37:47 or just cp what it dropped into target into /usr/local? (I'm on debian lenny) 22:41:19 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:41:45 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:22 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:46:06 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:48:35 Riastradh: thanks, I will try it out 22:50:44 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:52:43 cl-newb [n=john@c-67-183-22-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:02 mogunus1: clbuild is rather a "local" thing, but you could place clbuild in some systemwide dir and run installations scripts with sudo, as well as put a wrapper script to call sbcl... 22:56:23 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A03D8.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:59:40 benny [n=benny@i577A0F93.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:00:15 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:01:52 allotrope [n=jeff@c-67-161-219-3.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:27 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:08:24 p_l: I haven't used clbuild yet. What would that wrapper script be there for? 23:09:51 -!- allotrope [n=jeff@c-67-161-219-3.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:15:55 serichsen: to call "exec clbuild lisp" easily :) 23:16:31 clbuild really wasn't designed for systemwide install 23:18:24 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:18:28 ``Erik [i=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:54 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1CC3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:20:49 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:23:09 blazeski [i=slobodan@79.125.246.188] has joined #lisp 23:23:39 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:24:13 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:25 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-34-164.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:27:57 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 23:29:46 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F765.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:34:26 -!- phearle [n=phearle@24.63.120.211] has quit [] 23:35:00 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:35:17 plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 23:35:21 Good morning. 23:38:12 hello plage 23:38:27 mornin' plage 23:41:04 -!- blazeski [i=slobodan@79.125.246.188] has left #lisp 23:42:19 jao [n=jao@0.Red-83-43-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:29 greetings, plage. 23:45:40 -!- dreish_ is now known as dreish 23:48:40 rob1111 [n=rob@c-68-35-98-127.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:36 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:17 commmmodo [n=commmmod@dhcp-11-166.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp