00:00:00 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has left #lisp 00:00:12 rouslan: sorry to hear that. 00:00:28 So it's a first-class function that can "close over" its free variables? 00:00:51 Sounds right. 00:00:56 plage: Yes, it's very unfortunate 00:01:07 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-131-126.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:01:19 deepfire: apparently it has REPL and tests you on knowledge... 00:01:26 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-131-126.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:29 But what does "close over" exactly mean? 00:02:25 *p_l* really needs to put more work into his japanese skills 00:02:43 Google translate gives away a dirty secret: McCarthy was a bot: John McCarthy of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology was developed by a group of professors and researchers, was published in 1962. 00:02:44 rouslan: do you need examples? 00:03:03 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:07 rouslan: Don't worry about the terminology. A closure is a function that can refer to its (non-empty) lexical environment. 00:03:13 stassats: Sure 00:03:15 The function can access these variables, but for everything else, they are "invisible" 00:03:48 yes, plage has it better 00:03:57 please, bindings, not variables. 00:04:21 plage: So a function in C would be a closure as well? 00:04:22 even that... 00:04:32 and more than one function can capture the same binding 00:04:51 anfairch [n=user@nat/microsoft/x-ac854d5fecdecae7] has joined #lisp 00:05:13 rouslan: sure, but since functions must be defined at the toplevel (empty) lexical scope, that's vacuously true. 00:05:45 (in C, that is) 00:05:48 aren't there global variables in C? 00:05:58 there are 00:06:23 whatever do you mean by that 00:06:25 so, the toplevel lexical scope is not empty 00:06:27 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcr058.osnanet.de] has quit ["http://github.com/bakkdoor/rswing/"] 00:06:47 well, lexical is, because global variables are dynamic 00:06:54 it is just not very closed 00:06:57 stassats: not in C. 00:07:19 So a function that is not a closure would not be able to access anything (variable or function) outside? 00:07:19 oh, i read it as CL 00:07:22 sorry 00:10:01 So a free variable at a given location is not bound but must exist and can be accessed/manipulated, right? 00:10:14 rouslan: Here is a simple example: (let ((n 0)) (lambda () (incf n))) is an expression that creates a closure (in this case a thunk) that when called, increments its capured variable and returns the new value. 00:10:15 -!- ruediger_ [n=ruediger@62-47-142-144.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:10:23 I wouldn't say that a function _is_ a closure 00:10:36 TDT [n=dthole@63.254.110.204] has joined #lisp 00:10:54 I rather think that a closure is a lexical environment together with one or more functions that can access it 00:11:04 free variable is a variable which is not bound in the current lexical scope, e.g. x in (lambda () x) is free 00:11:42 stassats: But it exists and therefore could be accessed or manipulated in the current scope? 00:12:39 stassats: And it could be bound, rendering it separate? 00:12:47 it can exists in the outer scope 00:12:52 harleqin_: That doesn't sound like the usual definition. 00:14:33 demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d871fd5.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 00:15:16 rouslan: do you understand lexical scoping? 00:15:18 rouslan: there is two things to understand: scope and extent 00:15:21 s/is/are/ 00:15:28 pkhuong: Yes 00:15:38 a closure is simply the name for a function that obeys lexical scoping. 00:15:41 wait, cltl2 has a good explanations 00:15:53 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:16:07 pkhuong: Makes sense 00:16:08 -!- lucido is now known as dalton 00:16:18 The term was invented back when people were frequently confused about lexical scoping. Now, it's just a historical artifact. 00:16:23 rouslan: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node43.html#SECTION00700000000000000000 00:17:40 stassats: So extent only applies to dynamic scoping? 00:17:53 (let ((i 0)) (defun next-i () (incf i)) (defun reset-i () (setf i 0))) ; Is this one or two closures? 00:17:54 CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.98.58] has joined #lisp 00:18:06 no, to any scoping 00:18:46 harleqin_: two 00:19:00 two closures on one binding 00:19:08 So how would a function that is not a closure be named? 00:19:33 rouslan: "A function that is not a closure" 00:19:35 rouslan: a broken function. 00:19:58 So it would not obey lexical scoping? How exactly? 00:20:19 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:20:32 it is not necessarily broken, I think. It could obey dynamic bindings exclusively. 00:21:11 rouslan: There is no agreed-upon terminology for that. It is not clear whether a function that just happens not to refer to any free variables is considered to be a closure or not. 00:21:40 So the only free variables this non-closure function would have is from the most recent environment? 00:21:41 rouslan: So personally, I always just use the word "function". 00:22:25 I meant, the bound variables from the most recent environment. 00:23:03 rouslan: if the functions refers to free variables in its lexical environment, it is definitely a closure. 00:23:43 plage: So how would it behave if the function is not a closure? 00:23:58 rouslan: I just told you that you can consider all functions to be closures. 00:24:12 -!- demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d871fd5.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 00:24:31 rouslan: But for instance (lambda (x) (+ x 2)) *could* be called a function which is not a closure, because it simply doesn't refer to any free variables. 00:24:33 I thought closures were first-class functions that obey lexical scoping? 00:24:46 I see. 00:24:48 rouslan: All functions obey lexical scoping. 00:27:12 And all functions obey dynamic scoping if the language provides it? 00:27:35 functions/closures 00:29:04 rouslan: Yes, there is no way you can define a function that violates the scoping rules. 00:29:08 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:29:15 Common Lisp has lexical scoping as default. You have to declare when you want dynamic scoping. 00:29:40 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit ["leaving"] 00:31:14 harleqin_: You are pretty new here right? 00:31:15 -!- TDT [n=dthole@63.254.110.204] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:32:23 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r11gz66.net.upc.cz] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:33:10 yep 00:34:18 hi everyone. Question: Is there an easy way to get asdf-install to update all installed packages automatically? 00:34:38 use clbuild instead 00:34:52 ok, I'll check that out 00:34:57 thanks 00:35:05 minion: clbuild? 00:35:06 clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 00:36:03 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:08 plage: It still seems unnecessary to categorize a function as a "closure" just because it does not refer to free variables. 00:37:20 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 00:38:09 well, it just refers to zero free variables 00:39:34 rouslan: Yes, this is why I always use the word "function" instead. 00:40:46 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:45 Ok, thanks for the elucidation. 00:44:26 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:44:36 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 00:44:56 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:45:07 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.252.251] has joined #lisp 00:48:26 Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has joined #lisp 00:50:32 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:51:04 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:28 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.138.249] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:53:23 Snova [n=kitty@unaffiliated/snova] has joined #lisp 00:54:32 -!- harleqin_ [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-188-73.netcologne.de] has quit ["good night"] 00:54:43 I have an situation that needs the equivalent of an if - else, with multiple statements. Would it be better to use COND or an IF with a PROGN? 00:55:01 use COND 00:55:08 Thanks 00:55:13 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-5554e4dd6e2feb67] has left #lisp 00:55:21 sjr` [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279550985.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:55:59 -!- sjr` [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279550985.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:57:10 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.252.251] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:58:03 -!- cinayakoshka [n=bar@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:58:19 -!- anfairch [n=user@nat/microsoft/x-ac854d5fecdecae7] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:58:54 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.134.105] has joined #lisp 00:59:05 -!- Snova [n=kitty@unaffiliated/snova] has left #lisp 01:01:51 stuart71 [n=user@adsl-227-29-140.jan.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:49 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-150.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:06:00 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-148.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 01:11:06 -!- konr [n=konrad@143.106.73.150] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:12:04 konr [n=konrad@143.106.73.150] has joined #lisp 01:15:28 -!- cky [n=cky@cpe-024-211-249-162.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:21:15 TDT [n=TDT@126.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:45 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:27:57 allnmymind [n=allnmymi@bas3-ottawa10-1279550985.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:28:29 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 01:28:44 -!- allnmymind [n=allnmymi@bas3-ottawa10-1279550985.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 01:30:27 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:48 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:34:46 sunwukong [n=vukung@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:35:54 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has left #lisp 01:37:29 plage` [n=user@58.186.146.183] has joined #lisp 01:41:42 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:42:23 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:43:48 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:04 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:45:14 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 01:45:44 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.98.58] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:46:34 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.183] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:46:44 -!- mkfort [i=6jA25rou@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:48:38 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p2045-ipngn401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:49:43 -!- konr [n=konrad@143.106.73.150] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:50:11 konr [n=konrad@143.106.73.150] has joined #lisp 01:52:44 -!- stuart71 [n=user@adsl-227-29-140.jan.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:53:03 stuart71 [n=user@adsl-227-29-140.jan.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:57 -!- Swordsman [n=kohii@pool-71-112-23-110.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:57:40 -!- lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:59:03 huangjs [n=user@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:00:20 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-148.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:03:56 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:12 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:04:17 cl-newb-aka-gent [n=richard@c-67-183-22-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:16 If a package is locked, how can I add a nickname without generating a continuable error? 02:06:06 package locks are not part of the standard, so it's implementation dependant 02:06:45 is it advisable for me to use -on-error appease ? 02:08:11 it's advisable to not modify packages you don't own 02:08:26 -!- plage` is now known as plage 02:08:36 agreed 02:09:36 should i defpackage and use the already defined package and use the new package as an nickname.......? or can i assign a symbol to the pre-existing package and use it as a nickname? 02:10:50 what do you want to achieve? 02:11:29 -!- huangjs [n=user@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:11:40 someone else's code is using a nickname for a package that is locked, but I don't want to use -on-error appease, i would rather find a "fix", such that there is no error generated for the nickname 02:11:46 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-103.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 02:12:13 the code does a 2nd defpackage just to add a nickname, thus generating the error 02:13:21 is there any lisp implementation that allows packages within packages? Or has some experimental branch to allow that? 02:13:55 (does the hyperspec even allo that?) 02:13:55 +w 02:13:55 sykopomp: are you asking a different question, because that's not what i'm asking 02:14:05 sykopomp: yes. Google for conduits or hierarchical packages. 02:14:24 (defpackage blah ...) (defpackage blah (:nicknames :foo)) 02:15:16 cl-newb-aka-gent: well, consequences are undefined 02:15:19 pkhuong: thanks. 02:16:09 stassats: yes. is there a workaround -- a way to "alias" the package without using the 2nd defpackage? 02:17:19 create a new package and export symbols exported by the other package? 02:17:54 or just modify that code to not to do this 02:18:30 is doing the former the equivalent of a nickname, or would i be doing something inefficient? 02:19:19 it's not equivalent, since it won't reflect changes to the original package 02:19:45 as for the latter, i try not to modify other's code, as it's part of yet another package........i'm doing a port.....adding a compatibility layer, changing the person's code is not my first choice 02:19:52 thank you 02:20:08 i'll change the code then :) 02:20:59 *cl-newb-aka-gent* is afk 02:21:31 rename-package won't work? 02:21:38 huangjs [n=user@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:22:32 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-103.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:22:44 ... or did I miss the point entirely? 02:23:20 stuart71: the package is locked 02:24:25 ah. I did miss the point then. 02:26:05 I see, UNLOCK-PACKAGE isn't in the standard, right? 02:26:23 package locks are not in the standard either 02:26:45 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2F261.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:27:12 So there are implementations that lock packages without allowing you to unlock them. 02:28:00 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1F11B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:10 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1C98F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:29:55 there may exists such implementations 02:31:26 okay. thanks 02:31:36 There might also be an implementation in which UNLOCK-PACKAGE calls a hitman on you. Package locks are not specified by the standard. 02:31:47 Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:32:31 pkhuong: I'd better check my implementation before I call UNLOCK-PACKAGE then. 02:32:45 ok, so if i'm going to do text processing in lisp, whats the "correct" lispy way. iterate through a file a line at a time and use an event driven parser, load the whole thing into memory in a list and run? 02:34:01 that depends on what you intend to do 02:38:15 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.183] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:39:01 "in a list" ? 02:42:17 stassats: i'm parsing data out of large volumes of machine generated text to throw into sql 02:42:43 hefner: a list of strings? 02:43:25 Demosthenes: is each line of text complete in itself, or do records span lines? 02:43:27 -!- konr [n=konrad@143.106.73.150] has quit [Success] 02:43:59 stuart71: it varies. i have to create custom extration functions for each datatype 02:44:51 so simply reading the text file tends to be focused on isolating larger records i can pass to specific extractors 02:45:42 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:45:52 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 02:46:05 lacking a reason to do otherwise, I'll claim the thing to do is to read from the stream as you parse, rather than loading the text first. 02:46:36 especially if it's a really big file 02:46:39 i can respect that. 02:46:50 files, trees of files. only a few megabytes at a time typically 02:47:09 well, if it's too big, you might find that poking at the stream a character at a time is slow and pisses you off. 02:47:16 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:47:25 could be, a line at a time isn't too bad 02:48:01 in the past i've done exactly that while building a large hash in memory of the contents separated into records and then passed to a dispatch table to decide the extraction method based on content 02:49:06 one hack i'd considered in perl (where i normally do this, hence my focus on learned regexp for lisp) was to turn on "paragraph" mode and define a multiline regexp to match whole records instead of using an event driven line by line parser 02:50:34 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 02:51:19 i got into arguments with perl folks about dispatch tables.... in perl its a real hack. it sounded lispy, and i thought it'd be more elegant on this side 02:51:34 c|mell [n=cmell@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:51:44 returning functions is the norm in lisp, not the exception 02:52:31 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:54:00 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 02:59:03 plage [n=user@58.186.146.10] has joined #lisp 03:00:37 plage` [n=user@58.186.146.11] has joined #lisp 03:03:58 Pegazus_ [n=awefawe@host122.190-31-41.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:04:41 weird. the same code which ran unnaturally slow in CCL yesterday runs very fast today.. except when I dump an executable with save-application, in which case it mysteriously locks up at semi-random points. 03:05:04 plage`` [n=user@58.186.146.20] has joined #lisp 03:07:06 hello. does anybody know if slime supports abcl? 03:08:18 well swank-abcl.lisp seems to exist at least 03:09:00 seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:15 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-162.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:02 ah ok 03:12:38 well, lets see if it is usable with the common-lisp-controller 03:14:45 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:25 maco1 [n=Administ@117.87.15.90] has joined #lisp 03:18:53 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:21:16 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 03:22:54 simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:23:01 -!- 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joined #lisp 03:49:32 how to set a variable to a copy of an 2d array? 03:52:08 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [No route to host] 04:01:55 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["gbu"] 04:11:11 blackwol` [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:11 -!- blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:13:46 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 04:13:57 -!- schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has left #lisp 04:14:21 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:35 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 04:19:12 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 04:19:38 -!- schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has left #lisp 04:20:30 erk [n=MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 04:31:57 leo2007, copy-sequence 04:32:27 clhs copy-seq 04:32:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cp_seq.htm 04:33:36 msingh: rank-2 arrays are not sequences. 04:34:33 alexandria:copy-array 04:34:48 msingh: that failed on an 2d array 04:35:19 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E4436C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:07 stassats: thanks ;) 04:36:51 it took me a day to fix a bug, and it is not yet completely fixed. 04:37:40 bawden [n=alan@gw.bawden.org] has joined #lisp 04:38:41 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-157.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 04:40:05 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:40:15 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 04:46:40 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit ["Changing server"] 04:47:40 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 04:52:37 -!- _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E46FFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 04:54:57 -!- chavo_ 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[n=OmNomNom@122.162.127.248] has joined #lisp 06:38:39 ejs0 [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:19 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:50:18 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-125-22-12.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:34 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 07:02:49 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.255.55] has joined #lisp 07:07:07 plage [n=user@58.186.146.118] has joined #lisp 07:07:12 G'day! 07:08:03 howdy 07:11:44 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-224.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 07:14:24 mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:15:14 hello 07:15:15 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.134.105] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:16:47 asksol [n=ask@175.243.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 07:16:55 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:18:20 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:18:33 hello mrSpec 07:18:56 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-162.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:19:00 -!- Lectus [n=Frederic@189.105.43.162] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 07:20:32 segyr [n=segyr@199.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:23:45 -!- younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 07:24:00 younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 07:26:28 c|mell [n=cmell@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:30:16 easyE [i=[ZG2NM6f@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:39 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-162.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:16 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:36:34 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-71-185.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:36:50 jmbr [n=jmbr@217.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:38:24 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-202-113.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:23 -!- cracki_ is now known as cracki 07:43:16 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 07:46:15 -!- easy4 [n=easy4@c-68-45-192-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:48:03 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 07:49:26 -!- Tril [n=tril@bespin.org] has left #lisp 07:54:17 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:54:59 Hmm, it looks like my dear colleagues are going to take advantage of my absence to eliminate Lisp from the undergraduate program. 07:55:45 sorry to hear that! 07:55:52 yeah 07:55:52 what are they replacing it with? 07:56:16 slyrus_: Not clear yet. It may not happen. Perhaps Haskell. 07:56:32 sounds like it was planned all along. "hey beach, want to go to vietnam for a couple weeks?" 07:56:38 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 07:56:41 i suppose that's better than java 07:56:54 slyrus_: There is already Java. 07:57:33 -!- kidd1 [n=kidd@111.Red-193-152-161.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:57:49 slyrus_: It is pretty stupid, because we have taught this course called "functional and symbolic programming" for many years now, and the colleagues still don't get the "and symbolic" part, so they think Lisp can be replaced by OCaml or Haskell. 07:58:29 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 07:58:39 social decision-making 07:59:10 try to learn the source of this thought, only then you can try to eliminate it 08:01:47 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:23 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:04:11 what is symbolic programming? 08:04:31 hefner: To me it is "Everything Lisp can do that the others can't" 08:05:18 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-0-46.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:44 -!- segyr [n=segyr@199.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has quit [] 08:06:02 i'd like to say "it's what Java programmers need IDEs for" 08:06:04 hefner: Technically, I think it has to do with the use of first-class symbols, but that's not quite enough to turn it into a programming technique. Perhaps it used to include things like property lists. 08:07:29 but the IDE argument is quite vague since it mostly just means refactoring, macros and different techniques that involve dynamic manipulation of the whole application at hand 08:08:42 plage: we have 1 year of Symbolic Programming, first half Lisp then Icon... 08:09:17 mrSpec: So perhaps you can tell hefner what it is? 08:09:34 symbolic programming? Hmm 08:09:56 There is no type like integer, and for me it is symbolic :D 08:10:02 I can operate on symbols 08:10:50 Found this: symbolic programming: a kind of programming in which variables can stand for pieces of the program itself (symbolic expressions), not just numbers, strings, or other values. LISP and Prolog are examples of symbolic programming languages. 08:11:06 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:11:07 oh yes :) 08:13:08 Another question might be: what is the conection between symbolic and functional programming? Why teach them together? 08:13:09 But I think Haskell Is usefull, It is still in use. But Icon? have you ever meet someone coding in it? 08:14:03 bawden: because Lisp is symbolic&functional. 2in1 ;) 08:14:26 ejs [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:05 -!- ejs [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:15:09 sbcl hackers aroundp 08:15:15 (good morning) 08:15:42 everyone enjoys symbolic differentiation. 08:18:04 bawden: Essentially what mrSpec said. There is a high cost of introducing a language to illustrate a concept. If several concepts can be illustrated with one language, that saves time and energy. 08:19:08 mrSpec: Careful with the "have you ever met anybody using it" argument because that's what others use to discard Lisp. 08:19:46 hehe, ok sorry ;) 08:19:55 -!- ejs0 [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:19:56 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:03 eni4ever [n=admin@79.114.44.104] has joined #lisp 08:20:21 I couldn't belive Lisp is usefull till I've found #lisp 08:21:23 yeah, it's useful to talk about it in #lisp 08:21:25 -!- KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-12-79.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:22:26 but my lecturer allows me to write Icon programms in Lisp and he is suprised I like this ((())) 08:23:42 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:26:02 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.127.248] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:28:07 ejs [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:19 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:30:07 -!- jewel_ is now known as jewel 08:30:43 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:31:44 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:35:44 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-162.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:42:00 I keep getting amazed by the fact that people trip over the parentheses 08:42:32 other languages just have different separators; it's not like they don't have the concept. 08:42:36 you are biased! 08:43:02 you are clearly some form of alien space wizard. 08:43:27 heh 08:44:15 *sykopomp* goes off to write some infix macros. 08:45:15 full mathematical infix, or just +/-/*? 08:45:42 perhaps haskell syntax? 08:46:02 don't forget 2-dimensional syntax 08:46:12 ([x -> (* x x)] 5) => 25 08:46:19 myehehe 08:46:28 mrguser [i=entropie@116.59.40.33] has joined #lisp 08:46:36 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-147-142.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:47:01 interesting circular dependencies in some of the SB- packages 08:47:08 stassats: indentation-as-syntax counts as 2d, right? 08:47:17 ;D 08:50:12 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-147-142.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:50:39 hefner: do tell 08:51:15 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-147-142.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:52:01 -!- mrguser [i=entropie@116.59.40.33] has quit [] 08:52:12 for instance, SB-FASL uses SB-C, and SB-C uses SB-FASL 08:52:45 tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296bf1.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:53:27 hah, right 08:53:47 -!- bawden [n=alan@gw.bawden.org] has quit ["ircII EPIC4-2.8 -- Are we there yet?"] 08:54:15 so I ran into a funny bug today -- I wonder how many other people have gotten bit by it. "X is not a list, omg" (2 hours crawling through code) "Oh, I changed the args to a call to apply" 08:54:24 \o/ 08:55:14 sykopomp: blame parentheses 08:55:25 stassats: indeed. 08:58:49 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:59:10 ejs1 [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:33 -!- ejs [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:02:09 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:08:08 -!- Joreji [n=user@41-194.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Success] 09:12:40 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:19:29 s0ber [n=s0ber@114-45-226-78.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:32 Reav__ [n=Reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 09:20:06 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 09:24:40 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:24:49 dys` [n=andreas@p5B31614E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:54 ejs0 [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:41 demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d871fd5.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 09:26:02 drafael [n=tapio@118-92-130-5.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:31:04 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B3169D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:32:41 shanmu [n=chatzill@62.254.178.29] has joined #lisp 09:33:15 Hi, I am using CCL on win32 and the directory function returns pathanmes without disk partition name (like C:, D: etc)? 09:33:20 is there any other function which I should be using for that? 09:35:01 shanmu: how do they print? 09:35:02 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118-92-130-5.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:35:06 something like (setf *default-pathname-defaults* (make-pathname :device "D")) ? 09:35:18 (mapcar (function pathname-device) (directory "*.*")) ? 09:35:23 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-5-8.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:32 this is what I do 09:35:38 (dolist (dir (directory "C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/clbuild/source/*/" :directories t)) 09:35:40 (pushnew (namestring dir) asdf:*central-registry* :test #'string-equal)) 09:35:49 it returns stuff like 09:36:23 (print (list (pathname-device #1=#P"C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/clbuild/source/*/") (truename #1#) #1#)) 09:36:52 *stassats* misread everything 09:37:05 Why do you want to put strings on *central-registry*? It can deal with pathnames perfectly well. 09:37:34 pjb: I am trying to get asdf working on win32 without symbolic links 09:37:48 pjb: with ccl 09:37:54 shanmu: what do you get from: (print (list (pathname-device #1=#P"C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/clbuild/source/*/") (truename #1#) #1#)) 09:38:26 shanmu: or perhaps: (print (list (pathname-device #1=#P"C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/") (truename #1#) #1#)) 09:38:27 > Error: Inappropriate use of wild pathname #P"C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/clbuild/source/*/" 09:38:30 does truename work on wild pathnames? 09:38:39 Perhaps not, indeed. 09:39:45 my problem is that my code works when ccl is explicitly launched from that disk partition (via cmd) and not when invoked via Emacs 09:40:04 because my emacs/slime is on a different disk paratition 09:41:35 shanmu: What do you get from: (print (list (pathname-device #1=#P"C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/") (truename #1#) #1#)) 09:42:22 pjb: ("C" #P"C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/" #P"C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/") 09:42:24 ("C" #P"C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/" #P"C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/") 09:43:28 So here we can see that the device is kept with pathnames with a device. 09:43:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-224.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:43:55 shanmu: Now what do you get from: (directory #P"C:/cygwin/home/*/") ? 09:44:39 pjb: it just returns NIL 09:44:58 Not good :-( 09:45:03 pjb: however ? (directory #P"C:/cygwin/home/*/" :directories t) 09:45:04 shanmu: Now what do you get from: (directory #P"C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/") ? 09:45:05 (#P"/cygwin/home/thiagas/") 09:45:25 And what is in *default-pathname-defaults* ? 09:46:00 pjb: #P"" 09:46:05 :-( 09:46:12 perhaps it should :directories t ? 09:46:28 It looks like a bug in ccl directory. It should return a truename, and it's missing the device :-( 09:46:46 Any keyword parameter to directory is implementation specific. Check the doc of ccl... 09:47:07 it works for me with :directories t, though on Linux 09:48:11 pjb: thanks! I got it working like this: (dolist (dir (directory "C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/clbuild/source/*/" :directories t)) (pushnew (namestring (truename dir)) asdf:*central-registry* :test #'string-equal)) 09:48:37 stassats: thanks! I had to use truename on the dir and then namestring it.... 09:48:56 You don't really need namestring. 09:49:01 for *central-registry&. 09:49:04 if I donot namestring it, I get > Error: value #P"C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/clbuild/source/babel/" is not of the expected type (OR STRING SYMBOL CHARACTER). 09:49:20 Of course, but you don't need to test for string-equal either. 09:49:33 pjb: ah.. got it 09:50:18 thanks a lot for you help pjb and stassats.... #lisp is indeed a cool place... 09:50:50 EQUAL instead 09:50:53 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-0-46.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:51:12 shanmu: or you can use :key too: (pushnew path list :test (function string-equal) :key (function namestring)) 09:51:27 So you get to compare the pathnames by namestring. 09:51:35 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:51:53 Ibex_twin [n=lars@a213-22-112-171.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 09:52:12 pjb: great... I was just trying to do something similar... with the function defined before the actual pushnew 09:53:36 pjb: but then I get > Error: value *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS* is not of the expected type (OR PATHNAME STREAM STRING). 09:54:05 looks like a symbol 09:54:32 too much quoting? 09:54:46 its a global variable which has #P"" 09:55:11 where do you use it? 09:55:13 holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 09:55:15 (pathnamep *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS*) ? 09:55:21 you use it in an unevaluated context 09:55:30 tcr: yes 09:55:42 Or check the backtrace, normally, asdf:*central-registry* accepts '*DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS* and it's symbol-value is used... 09:55:46 What "yes"? 09:55:53 hello lisp 09:56:07 tcr: I am using it in an unevaluated context (I think) 09:56:09 If it's yes, then the reason behind the error is clear 09:56:47 drafael [n=tapio@118-92-130-5.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:56:49 tcr: yes again... I am a newbie came in here with another problem which was solved by tips from pjb and stassats 09:56:52 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-224.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 09:57:15 well, don't make assumptions, show your code 09:57:28 (dolist (dir (directory "C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/clbuild/source/*/" :directories t)) (pushnew (namestring (truename dir)) asdf:*central-registry* :test (function string-equal) :key (function namestring))) 09:57:35 this is in ccl win32 09:59:16 first, (truename dir) instead of (namestring (truename dir)) 09:59:30 (dolist (dir (remove-if-not #'ccl:directory-pathname-p (directory "dhl:site;*.*" :directories t))) (pushnew dir asdf:*central-registry* :test #'equal)) is what I use 10:00:37 antifuchs: here? 10:00:38 well, don't need truename either 10:02:20 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 10:04:21 shanmu: so, (dolist (dir (directory "C:/cygwin/home/thiagas/clbuild/source/*/" :directories t)) (pushnew dir asdf:*central-registry* :test #'equal)) 10:05:49 stassats: thanks a lot! that fixed it for good 10:06:25 statssats: without true name I not getting the disk name in the pathname 10:06:53 statssats: which was my original problem when I have emacs and my lisp directories on different disks 10:07:34 spec says directory should return truenames 10:07:58 in CCL/Win32 it doesnot... it returns from root without the disk name 10:09:29 shanmu: not for me: (directory "dhl:site;*.*" :directories t) -> (#p"e:/cygwin/home/danlei/... ... 10:10:14 could be different versions 10:10:28 danlei: checking it out.. I have ccl from svn 1.3-dev-r11877M-trunk (got on 25-Jun) 10:11:04 I am checking with gbyers on #ccl who says the problem is fixed and 11877M is quite old :) 10:11:33 tcr: is there a replace-symbol-in-defun / replace-symbol-in-file style functionality in Slime? 10:11:58 or rather rename, i guess 10:12:53 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:13:22 C-M-h C-M-% ? 10:13:54 nikodemus: No, but it's easy to write. I once wanted to write a query-replace-across-asdf-system, but haven't come around doing so 10:14:42 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@217.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:14:52 even just a local version would be nice 10:15:01 what stassats said 10:15:13 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-202-113.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:15:24 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:15:46 My hands use C-u C-SPC M-x query-replace instead of what he said 10:16:48 nah, doesn't recognize symbols 10:16:54 -!- eni4ever [n=admin@79.114.44.104] has quit [Client Quit] 10:16:57 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@ip70-162-187-21.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:23 irritating to rename something like I to J in a large function where there a bogus hits all over the place 10:17:34 query-replace-regexp 10:17:45 \_ 10:17:59 \_< means beginning of symbol 10:18:03 \_> end of symbol 10:18:13 looks like a duck 10:18:30 i wonder what happens when you learn everything emacs can do 10:18:44 i suppose nobody has had the opportunity to find out, yet 10:19:31 *stassats* forgets more things about emacs than learns 10:22:27 lujz [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-3-247.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:14 nikodemus: http://brian.mastenbrook.net/static/files/misc/refactor.el 10:23:31 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118-92-130-5.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:25:30 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.118] has left #lisp 10:26:49 schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-064-178-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:05 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:27:19 pipping [n=user@unaffiliated/pipping] has joined #lisp 10:27:29 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-39-26.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:31:01 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:31:50 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 10:33:09 pipping_ [n=user@unaffiliated/pipping] has joined #lisp 10:34:51 -!- ejs0 [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:36:02 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:39:54 -!- schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-064-178-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:40:17 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C648.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:40 -!- demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d871fd5.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 10:46:14 -!- etate|away is now known as etate 10:46:31 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:47:11 why does the latest slime not give me a SLIME> repl? 10:47:34 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) in .emacs? 10:48:53 stassats, that does it, thanks 10:49:23 -!- pipping [n=user@unaffiliated/pipping] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:50:14 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:50:16 -!- pipping_ is now known as pipping 10:51:00 -!- milanj- [n=milan@77.46.169.71] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:52:50 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:54:40 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:56:46 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 10:57:27 segyr [n=segyr@199.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 10:59:04 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:06:15 josemanuel [n=josemanu@230.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:09:21 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@230.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 11:10:41 switch [n=user@32.251.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:44 hi 11:11:01 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:14:29 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:04 (Assuming this is the right place for problems w/ sbcl). I'm compiling sbcl on x86_64 linux, *FEATURES* untouched. Both w/ 1.0.29 and 1.0.29.50 I get a test failure: "Failure: run-program.impure.lisp / RUN-PROGRAM-ED test failed, expected 104 return code, got 1" 11:16:46 elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:18:05 -!- shanmu [n=chatzill@62.254.178.29] has quit ["bye!"] 11:18:08 pipping: you don't have ED installed? 11:18:18 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-194.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:18:18 *pipping* doesn't know what ED is 11:18:23 ruepel0r [n=rue@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 11:18:35 you mean ed, the editor? 11:18:39 yes 11:18:45 i don't. 11:18:57 well, then that's why it fails 11:19:11 great :D 11:21:19 (reading the name of that test again, this makes sense all of sudden ;) 11:22:16 ... how the hell one can not have ed on *nix system? 11:22:41 (troll-inside "linux is not unix") 11:23:19 [nx] systems 11:23:21 switch: (srsly "you meant UBANTO?") ;-) 11:23:53 ;) 11:24:34 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:25:07 but srsly, "ed is the standard text editor". I know that Linux distros don't pursue POSIX conformance due to price of certification, but... 11:26:39 is there slime for ed? 11:26:52 punk$ which ed 11:26:54 /bin/ed 11:27:12 punk$ uname -a 11:27:20 NetBSD punk 5.0 NetBSD 5.0 ... 11:27:32 :) 11:29:27 is there no ed mode for emacs? 11:29:28 -!- Orest is now known as Orest^bnc 11:29:37 pipping: ... that is evil, you know? 11:29:49 p_l: hm? 11:30:36 pipping: ed mode for emacs? 11:31:01 sure. make /bin/ed a symlink to `emacs ` 11:31:10 I used Teco for years, but I was never able to stand ed 11:31:37 Not that I tried. 11:32:19 23l23t$$ 11:33:01 drafael [n=tapio@118-92-130-5.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:33:17 TECO, eh... 11:33:40 Emacs started life as a fancy Teco macro 11:34:24 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:24 yeah, I tried it once 11:37:34 TECO was crazy ^^; 11:37:53 It was my only choice in DOS-11 on a PDP-11/10 in 1976 11:38:45 EDT in RT-11 was a large step forward 11:45:28 harleqin [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-153-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:45:31 hello 11:45:31 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:48:18 -!- KingThomasV [n=KingThom@76.122.37.30] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:50:34 billstclair: sometimes I envy people who got to work on computers back in 70s... 11:50:59 nikodemus pasted "slime-rename-symbol-in-defun" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82605 11:52:44 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C648.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:52:47 I remember a TTY-33 connected to a Xerox Sigma 7 in 1973, I think it was. The glass TTY was a welcome advancement 11:52:49 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 11:52:59 kachunk kachunk kachunk 11:53:55 And I'll never miss decks of punched cards 11:54:01 does anyone know if it is possible to startup emacs say with the buffer split into two vertically and a particular file opened up in one and slime opened up in the other slice? 11:54:06 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C648.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:27 holycow: you can do nearly anything with your .emacs file 11:55:37 googling ... makes sense 11:55:39 xristos [n=x@216.254.67.211] has joined #lisp 11:55:42 nikodemus: have you seen chandler's rename-symbol-in-defun ? 11:55:47 -!- xristos is now known as Guest18959 11:56:02 -!- Guest18959 is now known as xristos` 11:56:30 -!- xristos` is now known as xristos 11:56:36 fe[nl]ix: nope, i raw the refactor.el, though 12:00:45 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:00:53 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:01:07 billstclair: you meant ASR-33? And while I don't long for paper ttys or punched cards, time of ITS, TOPS etc. was rather... interesting :D 12:01:41 Yes. ITS was interesting. While I was programming data collection code in Fortran on that PDP-11/10, the MDL hackers were decoding morse code 12:03:15 Maybe it was ASR-33. Anyway, it was a slow and clunky printing terminal. The DecWriter on which I played Adventure in my dorm was a lot easier to live with. Quieter. 12:03:49 Decoding morse code and writing Zork 12:04:43 Davse_Bamse_ [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 12:04:51 wobble` [n=user@74.196.9.26] has joined #lisp 12:05:01 I enjoyed a few midnight trips to the lab to chase each other around in a simple-line-drawing maze game on the Imlac terminals 12:05:08 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:05:18 But I only knew a few people who could make it work. I wasn't one of them. 12:05:50 And don't forget Magic 6 and Eine and Zwei 12:06:29 And Multics 12:06:49 But the Lisp Machine trumped them all 12:07:12 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:01 Hello, all. I'm trying to search for files recursively under a directory. I'm using SBCL on Ubunut x64. Is there a way to do this? 12:08:03 Though my iPhone does Mandelbrot much faster than that $70,000 Symbolics machine. 12:08:19 WarWeasle: the ** wildcard might help 12:08:21 -!- jan247 [n=jvliwana@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:08:27 WarWeasle: together with DIRECTORY 12:08:45 billstclair: i still find that very weird 12:09:26 Xach: It just returns a nil. 12:09:30 billstclair: the first time i had a "mobile" phone (with a bag of equipment attached to it), the novelty is overwhelming. now we carry around little wireless supercomputers. 12:09:44 Indeed 12:09:58 WarWeasle: sorry, that's a little too vague for me to suggest how to improve the situation. maybe you could paste some of the context to paste.lisp.org? 12:10:48 There is no code but It would be like "grep -R *" 12:11:49 WHoops! I meant "find . -type f". 12:12:27 (directory "**/*.*") works for me, finding all files in a sub-directory of the current one 12:12:59 same here. 12:13:00 I get an error "c-string decoding error (:external-format :UTF-8): 12:13:00 the octet sequence 3 cannot be decoded. 12:13:00 [Condition of type SB-INT:C-STRING-DECODING-ERROR]" 12:13:29 Hmm, I don't remember the fix for that. 12:13:43 The problem is filenames don't necessarily follow any character set encoding. 12:13:55 And I there doesn't seem to be a restart. 12:14:05 i think you can pretend it's latin-1 by changing a special variable. i'll check logs. 12:14:34 hmm, plus setting sb-impl::*default-external-format* and sb-alien::*de 12:14:34 fault-c-string-external-format* 12:14:43 those might be what you need to adjust. 12:15:03 Let me give it a whirl... 12:15:13 *Xach* doesn't know the details 12:15:34 out of curiosity, what kind of file do you have with a funky name like that? 12:16:15 Xach: unfortunately, we are still far from ubiquitous computing... 12:16:37 I used wget to download "http://tvtropes.org/" 12:17:08 I just assumed I was doing something wrong with **, so I never thought to change the filename... 12:17:15 filename=filenames 12:18:23 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:19:03 I get signal: "Undefined external-format ANSI" 12:19:19 I'll just rename... 12:20:00 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-9-252.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:18 WarWeasle: :latin-1 is the name you want 12:20:42 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 12:21:01 You guys ROCK! 12:21:05 It worked. 12:21:48 There went my emacs undo... 12:21:49 (or you can just start sbcl with LANG=C to get all external-format defaults to :latin-1) 12:22:23 WarWeasle: trying to mirror TvTropes? :D 12:24:26 Is there a way to stop emacs now? 12:25:11 Actually, I'm trying to datamine it. 12:25:30 I want to see if I can pattern match the beginning of a story and create an ending. 12:26:46 -!- KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-5-8.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:27:27 *p_l* got the image of automatic story generator based on tropes 12:28:07 p_l: Really? How did you do it? 12:28:24 WarWeasle: I meant "mental image" :) 12:28:44 Me too. 12:29:01 The idea started out as a card game my wife and I made up. 12:29:17 would be useful for my creative writing attempts 12:29:19 nikodemus: SSE intrinsics, mainline or not? 12:29:51 p_l: Cool...It would make a nice companion. 12:30:19 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A62F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:30:33 I want to autogenerate game plots like nethack autogenerates mazes or dwarf fortress makes worlds. 12:30:41 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:30:57 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:31:03 brb, have to walk dog. 12:31:03 dwarf fortress does it slightly differently, iirc 12:31:12 iirc? 12:32:19 mjf [n=mjf@r11gz66.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 12:32:55 if i recall correctly 12:33:01 pkhuong: you mean the sse-values thing? 12:33:23 WarWeasle: it has rather sophisticated simulation system with some randomization thrown in 12:33:50 nikodemus: right. 12:34:17 i'm not opposed, i think 12:34:25 not that i have thought deeply about it 12:34:47 is there a reason why it should not be in mainline? 12:35:29 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 12:35:42 It 12:35:51 nikodemus: what's wrong with query-replace-regexp \_ 12:36:00 *it's a lot of arch-specific noise? 12:37:59 tcr: essentially same reason why we have slime-symbol instead of just using the elisp symbol 12:39:10 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 12:40:34 pkhuong: i haven't looked at it recently -- can you send the patch to the list? 12:42:59 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 12:44:12 I'll VOPize all the instructions first. 12:45:04 i wonder if we should have an x86-common directory? 12:45:29 because there's a lot of code that is shared between x86 and x86-64, just copied over 12:45:52 instruction definitions for one 12:48:23 tcr: which is not to say that that is necessarily a good reason, but... 12:52:17 p_l: Back for a moment but I have to run. Thanks for your help. I would love to pick your brain about your plot generator sometime. I might be on later in the day. 12:52:20 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 12:53:07 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:53:45 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:54:24 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:55:17 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:19 jmbr [n=jmbr@154.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:59:32 fl3x [i=fl3x@114.224.57.162] has joined #lisp 13:02:59 ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 13:02:59 -!- asksol [n=ask@175.243.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 13:04:25 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-224.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 13:07:12 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-67.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 13:08:38 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:08:57 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:10:16 -!- ruepel0r [n=rue@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:11:37 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-67.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Client Quit] 13:12:26 suppose function F1 uses function f in its definition, if I put F1 inside flet where a local function with the same name f is defined 13:12:34 which f is used? 13:12:41 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-67.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 13:14:11 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:14:13 leo2007: flet or labels? 13:14:16 c|mell [n=cmell@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:14:25 leo2007: also, what do you mean by "put"? 13:15:05 something like (flet ((f ...)) (F1)) 13:15:26 F1 calls f 13:17:31 leo2007: you know, you can try that yourself on the REPL 13:18:15 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:19 leo2007: but this should obey lexical scope 13:18:47 flet and label bindings are lexically scoped 13:19:08 so (defun foo () :global) (defun bar () (flet ((foo () :local)) (quux))) (defun quux () (foo)) (bar) => :global 13:20:00 thanks nikodemus 13:20:58 if you want dynamic scope (defvar *foo* (lambda () :global)) (defun foo () (funcall *foo*)) (let ((*foo* (lambda () :dynamic))) (quux) => :dynamic 13:20:59 kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:20 milaz [n=user@85.172.72.102] has joined #lisp 13:21:40 Hi all! 13:21:44 nikodemus: thanks. But I don't want to change foo as it is maintained by others 13:22:04 I mean bar 13:22:25 So is redefine bar a good solution? 13:22:41 leo2007: no idea. depends on what you are doing, really 13:23:35 I got a function that uses random from sbcl to generate normal distribution, now I want to change that function to use another rng 13:23:46 oops, paren mismatch in the *foo* example, sorry -- that's what i get writing code in irc... 13:24:03 ;) 13:24:15 so you want to change the behaviour of your own function? 13:24:23 someone else's 13:24:48 "I got a function that uses random from sbcl to generate normal distribution" <- is someone else's? 13:24:59 yes 13:25:07 it is from cl-randist 13:25:23 yeah, copy the source and edit 13:26:41 though you might want to consider adding eg. a keyword argument (defun normal-stuff (... &key (random #'random)) ... (funcall random ...) ...) 13:26:57 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:27:01 nikodemus: thanks 13:27:35 then just pass in the rng you want it to use, and send a patch to maintainers along with the use-case/rationale :) 13:28:05 nikodemus: thanks 13:28:16 milaz pasted "slime+threads+standard-output" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82609 13:29:09 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:29:21 Guys, I'm sorry to ask such a stupid question, but is something like above paste it a way to preserve *standard-output* in another thread? 13:29:29 milaz: yes 13:29:30 *is 13:29:53 thanks 13:30:32 after finish my current project, I need to learn defstructure and defclass properly. Overall, I am very pleased with sbcl. 13:32:19 asksol [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 13:33:23 is there a library for memory mapping files in common lisp? 13:34:07 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-39-26.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:35:35 nikodemus: I also like sbcl info manual a lot. 13:36:53 harleqin: you have to use FFI for that, I guess. I haven't seen any existing library 13:37:16 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:39:10 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:39:10 harleqin: depends on the lisp. there are examples floating around for many implementations. 13:39:36 abeaumont_ [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 13:42:43 there is slime-export-symbol-at-point , but is there an slime-unexport-symbol-at-point or so? 13:45:28 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:45 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@ip70-162-187-21.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:48 aah the famous lisp machines!! 13:49:40 switch: ? 13:49:57 huh ? 13:51:50 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:53:02 jan247 [n=jvliwana@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 13:54:21 -!- abeaumont_ is now known as abeaumont 13:54:42 hi guys. nyone care to help out a total noob? trying to learn lisp. i was wondering how come when we say (defun some-fun (x y) ...) -- (x y) doesn't get evaluated. i just don't get it which lists are evaluated and which are not. 13:54:43 a-s [n=user@92.81.146.118] has joined #lisp 13:55:24 switch: < switch> aah the famous lisp machines! <--- just wondering about this 13:55:46 jan247: the ones in special forms and macros might not be evaluated. all others are 13:56:02 I never put an hand on one of them... just know them by reputation 13:56:50 hmm... i see. oh wait, so defun is a macro? hehe, sorry. 13:57:01 jan247: defun is a macro, yes 13:57:26 jan247: but in some implementations it could be a special form (in clisp it is a macro) 13:57:48 iirc it is defined to be a macro 13:58:02 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:58:08 sorry to ask, but what's a form? 13:58:21 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm#form 13:59:00 does form come from plato? :> 13:59:18 hehe, got it. thanks guys 13:59:19 i think plato is a form. but he wouldn't like to be evaluated, except by himself 14:00:21 Hun: is that why he likes to evaluate socrates so much, to avoid evaluating himself? 14:00:49 of course. 14:00:57 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:01:20 Hun: is socrates, in fact, plato? 14:01:22 later jesus came and told `don't evaluate others, so that you won't be evaluated yourself' 14:01:29 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:42 i don't think so. otherwise their dialogues would be monologues and some axioms would crash 14:02:12 Hun: and also, don't evaluate your neighbors code, or he may hax you 14:02:22 true 14:02:29 i once saw such an exemplary statement: 'socrates is a man. I am a man. Therefoer, I am socrates'. 14:02:38 though it might be fun to inject thy neighbors ;) 14:02:49 Xach: thanks, but I have not found any. do you have any pointers? 14:03:32 0x12345600 0x76543200 14:09:46 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 14:09:48 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:11:14 -!- simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:11:35 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 14:12:03 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-75-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:15:18 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:16:09 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:17:49 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118-92-130-5.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:21:54 demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d871fd5.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 14:24:22 -!- archypetro [n=hellequi@cpc2-oxfd4-0-0-cust85.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:24:25 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:22 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r11gz66.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:30:57 -!- demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d871fd5.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 14:35:14 can I define a setf that works like (setf (my-getter *object* keyword) *my-var*) in a generic (read: clos) way? 14:37:48 You mean (defgeneric (setf my-getter) (value object keyword)) ? 14:37:57 switch: you can still play with OpenGenera, though (buggy as hell, unfortunately) 14:38:09 patric [n=patric@90-230-89-60-no148.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:38:55 milaz: ah, it will always take all but the last variables as the variable to set? thanks 14:39:48 you're welcome 14:39:52 harleqin: sorry, i just got back. what implementation? 14:40:57 hello Xach 14:41:46 hello madnificent 14:44:44 Xach: I have SBCL here 14:46:19 harleqin: http://jsnell.iki.fi/blog/archive/2006-10-15-netflix-prize.html might have some pointers 14:46:26 (wow, was that really almost 3 years ago?) 14:47:06 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:47:19 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:47:34 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 14:48:41 Xach: Thanks! 14:51:44 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-194.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:53:20 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 14:55:42 demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d871fd5.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 14:57:24 that seems to rely on "decorating" the file on disk with an appropriate array header 14:58:43 harleqin: you can carry SAPs around instead if you wish 14:59:13 sorry, what is a SAP? 15:00:44 ah, a system area pointer 15:00:50 I'll read up on that 15:00:53 thanks 15:00:53 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:01:00 Greetings. 15:02:12 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:02:49 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@76.122.37.30] has joined #lisp 15:09:41 -!- pragma_ is now known as ^^pragma_ 15:10:03 -!- ^^pragma_ is now known as [[^^pragma_]] 15:10:53 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:11:06 -!- [[^^pragma_]] is now known as pragma_ 15:12:33 lnostdal: Sure, use C-u C-c x 15:12:49 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:14:28 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 15:15:01 -!- pragma_ is now known as pragma_|vacation 15:16:15 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-162.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:46 -!- kanzure [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 15:18:04 i have another problem w/ sbcl btw. (still on x86_64, linux, 1.0.29) 15:18:25 when i add :sb-thread to *FEATURES* and run the test suite, i end up w/ a hang that looks like this: 15:18:43 http://nopaste.com/p/ahAtfDElu 15:19:01 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.224.232] has joined #lisp 15:19:42 where and why do you add :sb-thread to *features*? 15:20:54 i meant to say: http://nopaste.com/p/aOCiBRnahb 15:21:44 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2CD87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:22:38 danlei [n=user@pD9E2CD87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:19 segyr_ [n=segyr@199.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 15:25:42 -!- szerglin1 [n=tyc20@125-236-176-26.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:26:49 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-162.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:28:41 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 15:29:43 -!- demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d871fd5.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 15:29:46 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.189.156] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:29:54 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.116.30.176] has joined #lisp 15:30:14 What's the easiest way to convert a string to an integer? 15:30:28 clhs parse-integer 15:30:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_parse_.htm 15:30:38 thx. 15:31:08 i am gonna love that bot 15:31:20 is there a parse-float or parse-double? (I know it's not in the clhs) 15:31:35 minion: tell Sikander about parse-number 15:31:37 Sikander: look at parse-number: parse-number is a Library of functions which accept an arbitrary string and attempt to parse it into one of the standard Common Lisp number types, if possible, or else it signals an error of type invalid-number. http://www.cliki.net/parse-number 15:31:49 thanks 15:32:16 I was googling for the wrong name :) 15:34:47 -!- pragma_|vacation is now known as pragma_ 15:34:54 -!- elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:35:09 elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 15:36:27 szergling [n=tyc20@125-236-176-26.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 15:36:40 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-79-6.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:29 -!- fl3x [i=fl3x@114.224.57.162] has quit [Client Quit] 15:42:14 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable110.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:43:05 tcr: did i make myself clear? :) 15:44:30 -!- segyr [n=segyr@199.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:48:08 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable110.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:51:51 pipping: I don't know an answer. You should consult one of sbcl's mailing lists 15:54:40 -!- elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 16:01:03 pipping: are you on os x? 16:01:52 if os, this is a known issue: threads are definitely not production quality on darwin yet -- fine for light hacking, but the tests suite is very prone to hang with threads on os x 16:02:24 most of the known issues have to do with things being less signal-safe on darwin than eg. linux 16:03:21 macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:04:00 he said linux 16:04:11 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit ["bye"] 16:06:01 -!- jan247 [n=jvliwana@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 16:06:09 -!- huangjs [n=user@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:10:51 huangjs [n=user@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:11:09 flowenol [n=LW@bl13-32-247.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:11:40 -!- younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:11:59 younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:12:49 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-184-205-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:50 flowenol pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82614 16:14:12 help appreciated 16:15:26 flowenol: you can't, with a function. 16:15:41 Depending on what you're actually trying to do, a macro may or may not be appropriate. 16:15:56 So the question is, what are you really trying to do? 16:16:12 im implementing the minimax algorithm 16:16:21 now im adding alpha beta search 16:16:52 So none of those inherently requires being able to change the value of a variable the way you want. 16:16:56 the problem is, the way i designed it, im not returning just one value, im returning a structure so i wanted to be able to modify the parameters 16:17:10 nope looks like i will have to use the structure 16:17:30 Well, you can return multiple values. Or return the structure and use destructuring-bind to take it apart. 16:17:57 (Assuming the "structure" is actually a thing built out of cons cells.) 16:17:58 i though it was possible to work with it like in C 16:18:16 its a defstruct 16:18:39 my knowledge of lisp is not the best :P 16:18:48 Ah. If you're translating some C code more or less directly into Lisp, you're going to run into problems. 16:18:48 just for academical stuff 16:18:55 nope not translating 16:19:07 -!- segyr_ [n=segyr@199.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has quit [Client Quit] 16:19:08 You just naturally write in C then? ;-) 16:19:10 but because i can pass by reference in C 16:19:26 i was hoping to be able to do it in lisp 16:19:33 I think Norvig's book, PAIP, has an implementation of minimax in it. 16:19:39 minion: tell flowenol about paip 16:19:40 flowenol: look at paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/paip 16:19:51 linux -- that's interesting 16:19:55 gigamonk` lets say i dont like lisp very much 16:20:04 then why are you programming in it? :) 16:20:07 but i have to use it in this case 16:20:15 flowenol: well, you're sort of in the wrong channel then. 16:20:19 ramus` the teacher requests it in lisp :P 16:20:38 How did you come to this conclusion? 16:20:45 Has the teacher made any attempt to teach you Lisp? 16:20:46 You obviously do not know Lisp. 16:20:53 he did .P 16:21:15 maybe im just too used to C 16:22:51 ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 16:23:26 thanks for the help 16:23:29 -!- flowenol [n=LW@bl13-32-247.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 16:25:30 Maybe you should look back to the stuff he tried to teach you. 16:25:51 If he's taught you Lisp and given you an assigment to be done in Lisp, maybe he wants you to use the stuff he's taught you. 16:26:30 he's gone 16:27:00 Oh. His departure must not have shown up in my client. 16:27:33 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:57 i'd love to know why some people seem to develop a kind of autoimmune response to lisp. 16:27:59 does anyone know of a job control system in lisp? 16:28:07 something that would let me queue up some jobs 16:28:17 check on their progress from time to time 16:28:20 gigamonk`: Mine filters those, too, unless the person talked some time before 16:28:39 maybe set some policies on how many jobs can run at once 16:28:39 it's like a kind of intellectualy anaphylaxis. 16:28:48 -ly 16:28:55 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:29:01 perhaps with priorities on the jobs and expected completion times etc 16:30:49 Fade: people have autoimmune responses to other languages in general. and complicated editors, and operating systems, and anything else that you have to invest time in to grok 16:31:55 Fade: and they don't search for something new while ther are comfortable with what they have. 16:31:58 macdice: the multiprocessing stuff of many implementations let you do something like that. 16:34:50 tcr: do you mean the threading primitives of sbcl and other equivalents? what i'm wondering about is something for higher level job control 16:35:06 nikodemus: linux indeed. 16:36:04 i guess what i'm looking for is something that will let me go into the repl, say 'list my current jobs' and check on the progress of the jobs i've started, kidn of like batch computing without having to leave lisp 16:36:04 maybe it's too trivial for anyone to have bothered doing 16:36:27 macdice: SBCL does not provide such a layer, but other implementations do 16:36:46 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Success] 16:36:59 macdice: look at http://franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/multiprocessing.htm 16:37:28 macdice: the very last example 16:39:54 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 16:40:14 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:43:25 tcr: interesting, thanks 16:43:52 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2CD87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:46:32 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:46:46 Sbidicuda [n=antani@host86-239-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:48:00 Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:49:32 pipping: what kernel and sbcl version? 16:49:45 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:50:08 nikodemus: 2.6.30 / 1.0.29 16:51:14 nikodemus: :sb-thread is all i enabled. should i paste my kernel config, too? 16:51:20 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 16:51:41 no need yet 16:51:49 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.182.128] has joined #lisp 16:52:51 danlei [n=user@pD9E2CD87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:00 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:53:05 can you follow the instructions at http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Reporting-Bugs.html#Reporting-Bugs from step 5 and 6 of "signal related bugs" to get the backtraces? 16:56:39 sure. i'll do that w/ 1.0.29.50 (that's gonna take a while) 16:57:43 (i assume debug symbols are enabled by default?) 16:58:03 yes 16:58:50 How can I make this terminate when line is nil? (loop as line = (read-line s nil nil) when line collect line) 16:59:09 I'm looking at libvncserver. Wouldn't it be nice to have it work with CL? 16:59:43 add "while line" before the when 16:59:47 (loop is too difficult for a n00b like me) 16:59:59 replace when with while 17:00:09 or rather, that, yes 17:00:15 Thanks 17:00:22 Makes sense... 17:00:29 *Sikander* smacks his head for not realising this 17:00:34 PCL has a decent loop section, but there really should be something more in depth on the subject. 17:01:22 -!- Davse_Bamse_ [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:01:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-196-77.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:41 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:43 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit ["reboot"] 17:02:40 lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 17:03:26 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:03:54 _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E449A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:59 -!- Sbidicuda [n=antani@host86-239-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:55 does slime-indentation make things slow? 17:07:39 -!- lujz [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-3-247.dynamic.amis.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:08:51 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:12:21 Say I have an :around method around a method specializing on FOO. Can I somehow skip the primary method for FOO in the :around method, and call whatever comes next? 17:12:26 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:13:24 -!- asksol [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit ["Be back later"] 17:13:35 scratch that 17:18:59 I hate it that asdf traps errors, can I turn that off? 17:19:51 i think there is a special that controls it 17:20:41 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-94-44-0-89.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 17:20:58 Lectus [n=Frederic@189.105.43.162] has joined #lisp 17:21:25 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:21:44 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E4436C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:22:01 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 17:26:26 nikodemus: here? 17:28:09 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 17:34:31 heretoo [n=tristan@84-74-82-250.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:36:54 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["gbu"] 17:38:13 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:40:29 -!- heretoo is now known as heretoo_ 17:40:31 -!- heretoo_ is now known as heretoo 17:40:34 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:41:37 asksol [n=ask@175.243.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:43:22 -!- heretoo is now known as heretoo_ 17:43:34 -!- heretoo_ is now known as heretoo 17:44:52 rlb3 [n=rlb@70-138-117-197.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:40 -!- rlb3 [n=rlb@70-138-117-197.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:45:43 can anyone explain to me how I can view the documentation of a package with SLIME-INSPECTOR? I've got the latest slime from cvs, and have been watching the slime movie but just don't seem to be able to do inspection and get the same results as in the movie.... anyone? 17:47:31 after install :split-sequence with asdf-install, i've tried M-x slime-inspect ... :split-sequence ... but it doesn't look anything like the details in the movie... 17:47:46 heretoo: The movie is quite old 17:47:50 nothing about internal or external symbols,. 17:47:59 ah.. maybe that's why.. I only started learning lisp a week ago.. 17:48:06 heretoo: You have to put (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) into your ~/.emacs 17:48:19 ok, i'll give that a shot 17:48:33 heretoo: You're right that the slime inspector won't show the docstring of a package 17:49:06 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 17:49:12 I don't think I have seen any package that use the :documentation clause in DEFPACKAGE 17:50:13 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 17:50:48 tcr: beautiful! it worked... looks much better 17:51:12 -!- robewald_ [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:51:53 tcr: i got past chapter 8 of "practical common lisp" and started getting itchy feet... i just can't get through it quickly enough, so i decided to start experimenting a little... 17:52:12 heretoo: Something the movie won't show is that when you're at the symbol listing page, you can press on [group by classification] to get the symbols grouped according to what they represent (function, macro, class, etc) 17:52:35 -!- milaz [n=user@85.172.72.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:49 tcr: oh yeah, that's cool 17:53:00 tcr: lichtblau's stuff usually does, IIRC. Osicat too. 17:53:17 lichtblau, eh? 17:53:48 cl-newb-aka-gent [n=richard@c-67-183-22-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:50 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-67.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 17:56:12 But not very common, I agree. 17:58:36 And I think "usually" was not the right adverb there. 17:58:42 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:09 I saw *one* package I guess. :-) 17:59:43 nikodemus: hmm 18:00:07 nikodemus: `pidof sbcl` gives me two PIDs. 18:00:35 nikodemus: when i run `gdb -p [..]` on either, i get "ptrace: Operation not permitted." 18:00:53 does that mean that most lisp packages have bad internal documentation, or are they documented in a different way? 18:01:01 nikodemus: even using sudo 18:03:00 heretoo: The better ones come with external documentation, most often in html. 18:03:08 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-79.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 18:03:40 tcr: okay 18:04:21 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:05:14 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:07:10 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.123.115] has joined #lisp 18:08:15 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-23-27.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:08:19 -!- heretoo [n=tristan@84-74-82-250.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [] 18:09:31 rlb3 [n=rlb@70-138-117-197.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:15 nikodemus: i'll be back later (nvm the ptrace issue for now, i might have an explanation) 18:14:09 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 18:15:18 cinayakoshka [n=bar@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:20:43 heretoo__ [n=tristan@84-74-82-250.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:23:27 nikodemus: the whole problem appears to be a sandboxing issue 18:23:34 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:23:50 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:24:39 -!- asksol [n=ask@175.243.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 18:29:41 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.123.115] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:29:51 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2435.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:30:17 benny [n=benny@i577A1DE8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:42 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-184-205-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:34:11 -!- heretoo__ [n=tristan@84-74-82-250.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:34:36 -!- rlb3 [n=rlb@70-138-117-197.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info"] 18:38:24 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:10 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-94-44-0-89.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 18:40:37 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:42:21 -!- dys` is now known as dys 18:44:17 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:44:56 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-75-59.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 18:47:43 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-75-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:50:24 grouzen [n=grouzen@194.11.28.1] has joined #lisp 18:50:43 Bigshot_ [n=BIG_SHOT@CPE002129abc864-CM001ac35cd4d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:51 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-79.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:51:45 salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has joined #lisp 18:51:54 good afternoon 18:52:49 ejs0 [n=eugen@162-44-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:41 what practical value is this function? (defun repa1a2 (l a1 a2) (cond ((equal a1 a2) a2) ((atom l) nil) (t (cons (repa1a2 (car l) a1 a2) (repa1a2 (cdr l) a1 a2))))) 18:55:12 to show how not to name arguments 18:55:13 it takes car of l and then conses it again into cdr l? recursively 18:55:32 and functions 18:55:42 heh 18:56:03 -!- a-s [n=user@92.81.146.118] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:56:47 stassats`: aside from all that what does this function do? 18:57:32 i'd say nothing 18:57:45 from what i think it take the first element and then adds it again to the list? woOt! 18:58:06 my guess would be that it was intended to replace a1 with a2, but it doesn't do this 19:00:45 Bigshot_: why do you care, ooc? 19:01:07 ooc? 19:01:14 out of court? 19:01:19 out of curiousity 19:01:23 ahh hehe 19:01:35 e.g. not important, but just wondering 19:03:35 MDXRL5 [n=MDXRL@c-75-66-15-74.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:59 wee. somewhat less irritating code for FP arithmetic with constants. 19:07:02 oh, asdf in sbcl is updated, with new shortcuts like asdf:load-system 19:08:08 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:08:47 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 19:14:21 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 19:19:09 clim folks around? 19:19:10 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for folks around?. 19:19:15 hah 19:21:24 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-69-77.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:23:18 stassats: oh, great, where did you read that? 19:24:09 harleqin: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ at the bottom 19:24:40 thanks 19:26:26 -!- ejs0 [n=eugen@162-44-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:33:22 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:33:32 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:39 -!- huangjs [n=user@static-122-103-239-152.ng-fam.svips.gol.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:34:19 -!- MDXRL5 [n=MDXRL@c-75-66-15-74.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:37:48 heretoo__ [n=tristan@84-74-82-250.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:38:24 lujz [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-3-247.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:26 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-23-27.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:41:02 ejs0 [n=eugen@225-48-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:57 nikodemus: hello? 19:44:24 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1D386.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:45 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@ip70-162-187-21.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:57 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:45:11 trying to figure out how to use with-scaling 19:45:31 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:46:03 which i seem to have right -- now just translation anymore... 19:47:15 oh, hey, i don't need it after all. with-scaling is enough 19:47:21 nice 19:50:36 nikodemus: how many hours until the freeze? ;) 19:51:02 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-129-32.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:52:35 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:01 24? 19:54:23 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:54:37 more, actually. i'll do it monday morning 19:57:57 deylen [n=deylen@62.249.247.182] has joined #lisp 20:04:08 phr [n=prand@97-115-186-225.spkn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:43 -!- lujz [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-3-247.dynamic.amis.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:05:10 -!- phr [n=prand@97-115-186-225.spkn.qwest.net] has left #lisp 20:06:58 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.6.197.187] has joined #lisp 20:08:02 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:08 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-66-250.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:11:19 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit 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[n=user@32.251.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:52:54 switch [n=user@84.102.251.32] has joined #lisp 20:53:16 -!- ejs0 [n=eugen@225-48-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:55:54 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@154.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:56:30 -!- macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["."] 20:56:35 -!- Guest51576 is now known as pragma_ 20:56:54 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:17 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:15 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-196-77.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:00:59 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.51.104] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:01:15 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 21:01:25 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.51.104] has joined #lisp 21:02:21 stassats`: is c-l.net the place to drop patches for ASDF? 21:02:22 antifuchs: when can we expect new boinkmarks? 21:02:51 p_l: i guess 21:05:23 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:08:38 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:09:35 stassats`: good 21:10:28 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:10:31 Urfin` [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:50 good evening 21:10:57 pkhuong: new as in, new interface? 21:11:18 new as in moar results? 21:12:09 pkhuong: http://sbcl.boinkor.net/boinkmarks/index has 1.0.29.48, and I believe the next few revisions will be tested in about an hour 21:12:59 -!- deylen [n=deylen@62.249.247.182] has quit [] 21:13:42 TDT [n=TDT@126.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:06 /boinkmarks is where all the new results are at; I just haven't made a redirect from /bench yet 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has joined #lisp 21:51:32 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@76.14.85.162] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:03:59 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:10:09 -!- Gertm [n=user@mail.dzine.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:11:37 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 22:12:54 jyujin [n=mdeining@82.113.121.143] has joined #lisp 22:13:13 Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@76.14.85.162] has joined #lisp 22:14:50 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@76.14.85.162] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:16:06 -!- Cowmoo` is now known as Cowmoo 22:16:38 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:18:38 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@194.11.28.1] has quit ["leaving"] 22:25:11 dialtone [n=dialtone@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:07 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Client Quit] 22:27:26 dialtone [n=dialtone@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:45 ruepel0r [n=rue@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 22:31:26 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:59 plage [n=user@58.186.146.118] has joined #lisp 22:34:02 Good morning 22:35:08 hi plage 22:35:50 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:36:07 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:36:17 bla1 [n=Maurizio@host54-152-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:38:52 -!- bla1 [n=Maurizio@host54-152-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 22:39:13 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-129-32.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 22:39:22 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:46:00 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:50:17 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:51:14 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@76.14.85.162] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:55:36 benny` [n=benny@i577A0CBE.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:04:39 plage: where are you? 23:06:02 -!- Urfin` [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:06:17 carbocalm [n=user@75-119-234-173.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:38 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.51.104] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:08:56 madnificent: Sài Gòn. 23:08:56 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1DE8.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:09:10 madnificent: a.k.a Ho Chi Minh City 23:09:19 slash__ [n=Unknown@p5DD1DD3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:20 -!- carbocalm [n=user@75-119-234-173.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:09:39 -!- benny` is now known as benny 23:09:43 good morning then :) Holidays? 23:10:46 madnificent: Not any more! :) I have a seminar tomorrow, graduation ceremony on Tuesday, and a couple of interviews of candidates for your Masters program. 23:11:23 madnificent: But there is always time for some good food and some nice discussions with the people here. 23:11:31 *stassats* got half-working slime-restart for remote connections 23:12:51 plage: sounds like the perfect job 23:13:47 i'm jealous, plage 23:16:14 -!- pipping [n=user@unaffiliated/pipping] has left #lisp 23:16:17 -!- slash__ [n=Unknown@p5DD1DD3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:17:56 -!- hypno [n=hypno@195.43.248.100] has quit ["leaving"] 23:21:05 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1D386.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 23:22:28 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:25:18 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:26:32 <_3b> so any lisp on the icfp scoreboard now that it shows everyone? 23:32:48 madnificent, salex: Yes, it's a nice job all things considered. 23:33:11 *plage* moves to the breakfast room. 23:35:33 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:11 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:59 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:46:33 dalton [n=user7994@187.34.42.81] has joined #lisp 23:46:42 -!- ausente [n=user7994@187.34.42.81] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:47:00 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.118] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:50:16 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-66-250.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:53:13 nikodemus: I went with inline constant for arguments to arithmetic and for floats, but not for integers. I'm really not sure how much it'd pay off to be able to initialise variables from non-fixnum machine words. 23:54:42 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-147-142.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 23:57:50 Question for gurus: Is a read-sequence from a file-stream into a with-output-to-string the fastest way to get a file as a whole string? 23:58:56 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit []