00:00:12 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:43 ecl: error while loading shared libraries: libecl.so.9.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory 00:00:46 Any suggestions? 00:01:26 I get that error when I try to run 'ecl' at the command line. 00:01:47 are you running it from your $HOME? 00:02:16 the error happens there too. 00:02:36 btw, I installed it according to the instructions here: http://ecls.sourceforge.net/new-manual/pr01s06.html 00:04:18 libecl should either in ld.so.conf, or in LD_LIBRARY_PATH 00:04:25 well, are you systems dynamic linker configured to look for stuff in /usr/local then? 00:05:44 the file that it's referring to is a link, in /usr/local/lib/ 00:05:54 hypno, how can I configure that? 00:05:54 -!- [Blay] [n=blaay@BSN-142-113-43.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit ["gnight"] 00:05:55 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:05:57 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-82-202.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:06:25 Adlai: ld.so.conf or LD_LIBRARY_PATH 00:06:29 Adlai: /etc/ld.so.conf? i think it differs from system to system. you need to read the man page for your system. 00:07:41 setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH is as stassats says also an alternative, but i wouldnt recommend it. it's more of a dirty hack really than a longterm change. 00:07:45 include /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*.conf 00:07:55 that's the contents of /etc/ld.so.conf 00:08:04 so I should just add /usr/local/lib to that? 00:08:48 Adlai: did you run ldconfig? 00:09:07 and yes, make sure /usr/local/lib is added to search path 00:09:59 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:02 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 00:10:16 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:27 p_l, should I run ldconfig after adding ':/usr/local/lib' to ld.so.conf? 00:10:38 yes. 00:10:58 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6C8E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 00:11:05 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:06 -!- asksol [n=ask@062249178132.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:12:14 Unix... whatever happend to the idea of multiple namespaces and some /intelligence/ and /automatic/ handling of this nonsense? oh well. 00:12:20 Still getting the error. 00:12:43 well, is that file really there? 00:13:43 stassats, yeah, /usr/local/lib/libecl.so.9.6 -> libecl.so.9.6.2 00:15:26 you quoted line for ld.so.conf with a column, is it really there? 00:15:41 p_l: Normally, I am in Bordeaux, but right now I am in Sài Gòn. 00:15:47 Adlai: you need to resolve all failed lookups in "ldd ecl". you can quickly test and try by doing, export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/usr/local/lib, and then redo the "ldd ecl"-thing, but ultimately, you should either fix your linker paths or install ecl in a more system friendly base directory, such as /usr. 00:15:53 s/column/colon/ 00:16:00 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:00 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:12 Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 00:16:13 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-9bac5f19348d198a] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:16:20 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:16:25 Sorry, my chat client died. 00:16:27 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:16:39 minion: tell Adlai about logs 00:16:39 Adlai: please see logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 00:17:23 thx stassats. 00:19:06 hypno, what is the "ldd ecl" thing? 00:19:28 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has quit [] 00:19:49 btw, after exporting /usr/local/lib to that var, ECL loads just fine. 00:19:51 an invocation of the ldd program with an argument "ecl" 00:19:59 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@253.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:20:19 ldd should show what dynamic libs an executable is using 00:20:42 hm, ok 00:21:22 -!- cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 00:22:07 the only link which it doesn't find is the one being reported. adding /usr/local/lib to $LD_LOCAL_LIBS fixed that problem. Should I just stick that in my .bashrc and declare victory? 00:22:41 that is the hacky way, and then it will not work if you change user (without doing the same modification). 00:23:06 the only other person who uses this computer is my alter ego known as root. 00:23:20 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483EA75.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:23:25 either do that, fix your ld.so.conf, or, for another nice hacky solution, make a symlink from /usr/lib/libecl... to /usr/local/lib/libecl... 00:23:41 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:23:41 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 00:23:43 hm, I like the last solution. 00:23:49 *Adlai* tries it. 00:24:01 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:24:30 your system is screwed, if it doesn't have /usr/local/lib in the ld search path 00:25:10 stassats, is there some system-level equivalent of the .bashrc where I can fix that? 00:25:27 ld.so.conf, for the fifth time. 00:25:46 no, fix ld.so.conf, run sudo ldconfig 00:26:03 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-13c2e0821c57a45d] has left #lisp 00:26:17 this is the only sane way 00:27:16 and i suspect it already has local/lib thorught ld.so.conf.d/ and you just hadn't run ldconfig 00:27:21 hypno: if you are looking for what happened, then two answers: 1) shared libs 2) freedesktop.org ;-) 00:27:32 ugh, thorught, through 00:28:18 p_l: heh, the horror. 00:28:23 hmm, ugh,, instead of s// 00:28:36 er, /usr/local/lib isn't in my ld.so.conf{,.d/*}... 00:28:40 i don't think that indicates a screwed system 00:28:46 just a crappy distro. :) 00:29:00 fixing ld.so.conf doesn't seem to make a difference. 00:29:45 Adlai: did you run ldconfig? 00:29:49 yep. 00:29:51 from root? 00:30:00 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:32 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:36 I ran "sudo ldconfig", but in my home directory... 00:30:46 does that make a difference? 00:30:53 then either your system, or you are screwed 00:31:00 no, it shouldn't 00:31:51 ruepel0r [n=rue@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 00:32:08 benbelly1 [n=ben@cpe-74-67-149-169.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:32:21 this is the contents of my /etc/ld.so.conf file: 00:32:35 include /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*.conf:/usr/local/lib/ 00:32:40 is that right? 00:32:42 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:32:50 i don't think so 00:32:56 put 'em on separate lines w/o : 00:33:02 ok 00:33:44 *Adlai* is once again saved by stassats. 00:34:10 thx stassats, hypno, and p_l 00:35:01 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-97.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 00:35:45 hmm, slime seems to be unforgivably slow in the huge REPL buffer 00:36:45 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:43 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:40:47 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:17 nikodemus: right, unboxed constants, after elsewhere. 00:41:58 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:42:44 -!- lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:46:44 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:47:13 -!- rread_ [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has quit [] 00:48:08 does anyone know if sussman's and steele's "art of the interpreter" is available as text (as opposed to a raw scan of a paper document)? 00:48:51 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@ip70-162-187-21.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:20 pkhuong: unboxed, or the boxed object allocated as part of the code-object? 00:49:34 in the first case i have a minor concern that i just realized. currently, if i write (IF X 123.456 123.456d0) and the float is returned from the function there is no consing at runtime -- since the constant is already boxed 00:49:37 unboxed, inline in the code object. 00:50:13 do you have a heuristic that uses boxed allocation if the value is returned? 00:50:15 Yes. I realise that. It's yet another representation selection issue. However, I believe that performance sensitive code doesn't work with boxed immediates very often. 00:50:33 true enough 00:50:48 i routinely inline most everything that takes or returns floats :) 00:51:07 same here (or at least use local functions). 00:51:12 right 00:53:05 i think it may be one of those tradeoffs that are hard to estimate without letting first out into the wild :) 00:53:28 anyways, bedtime -- good night 00:53:31 good night 00:53:33 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:53:50 thom_: probably not. 00:54:28 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:55:23 arg. that sucks. 00:55:35 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:24 -!- Michael_Jackson is now known as daltondaltondalt 00:56:47 plage` [n=user@118.68.33.117] has joined #lisp 00:57:14 -!- daltondaltondalt is now known as dalton 00:58:10 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.33.117] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:02:28 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 01:06:09 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:06:31 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:38 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:08:00 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:05 -!- ruepel0r [n=rue@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:13:01 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:11 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-41f0b6cf24db1fa0] has joined #lisp 01:19:18 sea4ever [i=sea@216.110.106.5] has joined #lisp 01:23:40 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-41f0b6cf24db1fa0] has quit [] 01:28:34 anyone here using csp to do concurrency? 01:31:23 "Concurrent programming is agreeing programming"? 01:31:41 Doesn't quite flow, but there's something there... 01:31:55 I'm not sure what concurrency is, but I'll take a dozen. 01:32:31 :( 01:32:50 I swear I haven't had any kool-aid, I'm just trying stuff out :( 01:32:56 don't hate, yo. 01:33:46 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-199.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 01:33:53 Nah, I just mostly don't do anything with more than a single thread of operation and the concur/agree thing has been knocking around in my head for a while. 01:34:32 I'm always delighted to have an opportunity to beat up on the quad core, but I wouldn't call it concurrency. 01:34:34 plage`` [n=user@118.68.34.166] has joined #lisp 01:36:03 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:38:06 elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:38:18 -!- elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:40:56 -!- shagou [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-179.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:41:47 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:42:18 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:50:45 -!- plage`` [n=user@118.68.34.166] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:51:54 -!- plage` [n=user@118.68.33.117] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:53:09 elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:54:03 hefner: what would you call it? 01:58:04 brute force! 01:58:32 the only useful programming paradigm 01:58:50 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:59:32 "Don't force it, get a larger hammer." 02:02:47 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:06:30 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:07:36 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:09:10 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-125-22-195.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:03 or eight guys to hammer it ;-) 02:11:52 Or just an AMD... 02:12:15 (Bringing the conversation right back to CPUs.) 02:12:48 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:52 harleqin_ [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-180-122.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:14:55 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["off"] 02:16:24 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.248.108] has joined #lisp 02:22:19 xinming__ [n=hyy@125.109.250.208] has joined #lisp 02:25:04 -!- harleqin [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-180-122.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:25:17 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:25:48 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2F0D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 02:27:15 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1C683.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:27:38 segv [n=mb@p4FC1C98F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:03 dysinger_ [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:20 Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 02:31:09 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.244.84] has quit [Success] 02:32:37 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-183-74.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:46 fredbr [n=fredb@bas16-montreal02-1242357603.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:32:56 -!- fredbr [n=fredb@bas16-montreal02-1242357603.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 02:33:26 nyef: it would be nice to have some support for managing memory locality on amd64 and i7 02:33:51 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71.20.231.3] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:34:41 If there's an interface for it on the CPUs, abandon Common Lisp and use a DSL for the computations that need it. 02:35:06 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.246.143] has joined #lisp 02:35:06 nyef: It's more of memory manager thingy 02:36:01 Well, in that case... 02:36:15 Again, leave the Lisp behind, sortof. 02:37:32 heh. Just relating to your AMD comment. Though, writing a DSL-like thingy with macros to wrap parallel operations over multiple threads and processes... might be an interesting project :D 02:37:43 I'd consider using sap-ref-* functions to get access to unboxed space that I can talk to the OS memory management about, optionally doing something frightening with my code-objects if both I-cache and D-cache issues are important... 02:37:59 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.248.108] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:42:01 well, I'm already playing with memory manager. Now, if linux had better one, adding such functionality wouldn't be that hard... 02:42:47 -!- xinming__ [n=hyy@125.109.250.208] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:43:07 Heh. And, of course, the user-side interface for Linux memory management is junk when compared with the Windows version, though the linux version is actually more flexible in practice... 02:43:44 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.136.139] has joined #lisp 02:44:42 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 02:44:57 nyef: well, at least they are adding some introspection. And NT6 introduced position-independent executables 02:45:26 Oh, -that's- not frigtening. 02:45:41 nyef: code objects have their own pages now. 02:46:23 pkhuong: Yeah, I know. And I wouldn't expect I-cache problems arising from multiple CPUs executing the same thing at once. 02:46:42 that would be severely lossy (: 02:47:07 Indeed. I only mentioned it because there are angles there. 02:47:13 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:47:28 ... Does genesis put code-objects in separate pages as well, or are they still all mixed in in the cold-core? 02:47:34 nyef: I wonder if linking application as randomized executable would remove some problems with libraries staying in the way :D 02:47:44 probably mixed until the first full GC. 02:48:20 Mmm. 02:49:13 That's actually one of the places I left off at with SBCL-os. The hack I had for putting some functions in non-paged space was execrable, and I didn't really have a good handle on how to do the job right. 02:58:21 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.246.143] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:58:22 afk 02:58:37 rly? 02:59:28 Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 02:59:50 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:04:14 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 03:06:17 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["gbu"] 03:08:05 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 03:11:31 Two free pointers for debugging numeric code. (1) Look for sign errors. (2) Look for multiply/divide by 2 errors. Hmm, on second thought, those errors may be more related to me. 03:11:36 zu22 [n=ubuntu@unaffiliated/zu22] has joined #lisp 03:11:41 wow Michael Jackson died 03:11:45 i just heard 03:11:48 (3) look for tmh? 03:11:56 *tmh* chuckles 03:12:03 Good catch. 03:12:37 tic has been waiting for years to ascend as the new King of Pop 03:12:58 I'm not sure that title has the luster it once had. 03:13:01 hefner: i want to know who is the King of Lisp? :) Paul Graham? :D 03:13:16 zu22: He abdicated. 03:13:20 tmh: lol 03:13:49 Lisp has reached it's true state, anarchy. 03:13:58 Ah order in chaos! 03:14:02 he'll probably title his autobiography "Off Lisp: The Paul Graham Story" 03:14:22 hefner: or "Offed by Lisp: An Anatomy in Murder" lol 03:14:54 Or "Off Lisp: I Made a Butt-Load of Money, Isn't That Enough to Make You Like Arc?" 03:15:04 tmh: haha 03:15:51 only if he'd share it with me 03:16:16 To code, or not to code? I could get a cup of coffee and start hacking or hit the sack. 03:16:34 I just completed the patch I wanted to complete and can't decide whether to continue. 03:17:43 throw a dice 03:18:19 stassats: Actually, I need a magic 8 ball package. I could load it in my initialization file. 03:25:01 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:25:33 -!- r0bby is now known as r0bby|arr 03:27:12 -!- r0bby|arr is now known as r0bby 03:39:48 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:41:03 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:00 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.118.136] has joined #lisp 03:43:55 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-183-74.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:45:00 tmh pasted "Magic 8-Ball" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82531 03:45:39 Needs a little work, but the idea is there. 03:51:18 tmh annotated #82531 "Obfuscated in a single function." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82531#1 03:51:34 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:58 minion: source 03:51:59 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``source''. 03:54:00 tmh: Why is it necessary to modify the array of phrases. Why not just pick a random element? 03:54:35 smithzv: I just wanted a little more randomness. It's not necessary. 03:54:59 ok 03:55:17 Now we need to make a Magic 8-Ball bot so we can ask the question here. 03:55:45 minion: advice on programming? 03:55:45 #11952: In my experience that is a bad strategy, because the people who ask such questions are the ones who paste the answer into their program without understanding it and then complain that it `does not work'. 03:56:47 (magic-8-ball "Should I go to bed.") 03:56:47 "It is certain" 03:57:15 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-199.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:59:47 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-105.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:04:03 -!- zu22 [n=ubuntu@unaffiliated/zu22] has left #lisp 04:07:11 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-46.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 04:12:47 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:14:30 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-125-20-193.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:43 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:22:09 -!- Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:22:13 dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:50 -!- maxote [n=||||||||@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:22:52 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:23:33 maxote [n=||||||||@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 04:23:38 -!- erg [n=erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:23:41 erg [n=erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:25:03 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.76.209] has joined #lisp 04:26:47 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@76.122.37.30] has joined #lisp 04:26:55 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 04:27:19 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-240.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:51 smoofra [n=user@cthulhu.elder-gods.org] has joined #lisp 04:30:22 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:13 -!- chavo_ is now known as troussan 04:32:27 lacedaemon [n=algidus@88-149-208-45.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 04:32:39 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-46.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:38:01 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.136.139] has quit [Success] 04:40:17 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:44:13 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:51:45 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-41-17.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:52:43 -!- Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:53:00 Xach [n=xach@207.5.178.18] has joined #lisp 04:54:22 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:55:55 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.78.90] has joined #lisp 04:56:32 -!- cp2 [n=will@unaffiliated/cp2] has quit ["leaving"] 04:57:00 simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:57:13 cp2 [n=will@unaffiliated/cp2] has joined #lisp 05:00:02 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 05:04:46 evening 05:07:14 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-105.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:07:18 xinming__ [n=hyy@125.109.244.220] has joined #lisp 05:08:49 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:11:14 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.76.209] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:16:51 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.128.174] has joined #lisp 05:16:51 ugh the one thing i hate about hacking on sbcl is how freaking long it takes to compile 05:19:21 huh? 05:19:38 compiling sbcl takes forever 05:19:46 try it on, say, a g4 ppc. that takes forever! 05:19:46 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.78.90] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:19:49 -!- troussan [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:19:56 modern hardware compiles sbcl pretty quickly 05:20:08 what are you doing that it becomes a rate-limiting step? 05:21:11 i'm decomposing a buch of changes to sb-cltl2 a while ago into distinct logical patches 05:21:42 to hopefully be merged by nikodemus 05:21:59 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.247.198] has joined #lisp 05:22:01 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.118.136] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:22:43 can't you just rebuild the contribs then? 05:22:48 sb-cltl2 is a contrib, you could build it separately 05:23:01 yeah, what stassats said! :) 05:23:52 yea actually that's a good point 05:28:20 i hear it produces a lot of output. maybe direct the output to a file instead the console? 05:28:52 it won't help that much 05:29:29 yea screen is pretty fast 05:31:05 -!- xinming__ [n=hyy@125.109.244.220] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:36:40 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.128.174] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:39:02 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:41:02 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:43:51 smanek [n=abc@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:07 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 05:46:22 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:52:49 KingThomasV [n=KingThom@76.122.37.30] has joined #lisp 05:53:41 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-240.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:54:05 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@76.122.37.30] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:58:41 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:01:34 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.140.101] has joined #lisp 06:02:45 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-105.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:04:38 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-12-60.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:48 -!- KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-12-60.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:07:03 mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:07:08 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-12-60.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:55 xinming__ [n=hyy@218.73.141.26] has joined #lisp 06:08:19 hello 06:11:55 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-7-60.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:13:24 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:17:21 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-0-87.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:33 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.247.198] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:19:19 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.147.20] has left #lisp 06:20:45 hello 06:22:21 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.141.230] has joined #lisp 06:23:58 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.140.101] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:24:17 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:28:10 harleqin [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-156-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:29:54 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:30:41 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@130.226.210.2] has joined #lisp 06:31:28 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:31 -!- KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-12-60.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:34:43 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 06:36:20 szergling [n=tyc20@125-236-176-26.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 06:37:24 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.138.249] has joined #lisp 06:38:27 morning 06:38:41 sup 06:38:52 -!- xinming__ [n=hyy@218.73.141.26] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:39:37 -!- harleqin_ [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-180-122.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:40:04 sunwukong [n=vukung@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 06:40:23 -!- smanek [n=abc@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:43:35 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-105.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:43:35 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.141.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:44:08 -!- abeaumont_ [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:44:57 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-105.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:45:48 -!- elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [] 06:46:07 ASau [n=user@77.246.230.147] has joined #lisp 06:47:26 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 06:48:15 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has quit ["bye"] 06:50:22 tombom_ [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 06:52:32 -!- szergling [n=tyc20@125-236-176-26.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:54:26 abeaumont_ [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 06:55:20 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:56:22 if I have a list such as (:foo bar :baz quux), how do I get LOOP to iterate by pair? 06:57:11 i dunno if loop can do that 06:57:42 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:58:18 -!- simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:58:22 *araujo* wouldn't want to see that loop if it actually can :P 06:59:01 is that so bad? (loop for (var value) in ((var val) (var val)) do ..) isn't exactly scary :) 06:59:03 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:46 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:02:08 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-159-120.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:04:38 tombom__ [i=tombom@82.12.17.135] has joined #lisp 07:05:23 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 07:14:24 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:14:25 -!- tombom__ is now known as tombom 07:14:25 -!- tombom_ [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:15:45 ejs [n=eugen@167-21-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:01 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:18:52 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-18-202.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:19:10 http://www.liberation.fr/monde/0101576238-dans-une-video-ahmadinejad-annnonce-un-grand-bouleversement-sur-la-planete 07:19:19 sorry 07:19:30 wrong channel 07:22:23 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:26:37 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:26:39 This_Is_My_World [n=sea_4_ev@216.110.106.5] has joined #lisp 07:26:52 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-26-198.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:27:06 cracki [n=cracki@42-078.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:27:50 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-105.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:28:43 mega1 [n=mega@pool-03783.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:28:44 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-97.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:31:56 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 07:32:58 -!- ejs [n=eugen@167-21-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:33:55 -!- harleqin [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-156-99.netcologne.de] has quit ["bye, and thanks for all the input"] 07:35:32 zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:17 -!- sea4ever [i=sea@216.110.106.5] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:39:00 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:40:22 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:42:46 asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 07:43:51 sunwukong [n=vukung@210-20-93-83.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:45:59 ejs [n=eugen@115-69-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:05 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:54:06 -!- younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 07:55:06 jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:56:13 -!- jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Client Quit] 07:56:32 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-161-10.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:57:27 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:58:42 jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:59:15 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 07:59:41 younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 08:00:46 -!- ejs [n=eugen@115-69-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:00:59 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:02:40 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-40-3.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:03:04 good morning 08:04:34 cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 08:07:29 QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 08:10:16 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@210-20-93-83.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:10:42 sunwukong [n=vukung@210-20-93-83.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:12:16 -!- antoni` [n=user@143.pool85-53-26.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:15:34 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 08:24:35 smanek [n=abc@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:01 Hi, I'm having trouble setting up slime (for use with the latest SBCL on a remote Linux box). When I slime-connect (the SWANK server is remote) it says it is 'connected' and the *slime-events* buffer shows a connection, but I don't get a REPL. My .emacs includes (require 'slime), (require 'slime-autoloads), and (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) 08:35:44 -!- jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:37:01 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 08:39:19 smanek: perhaps you will have to change the communication style. cf. http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Communication-style.html#Communication-style 08:39:46 (I don't know really, it could be something else). 08:40:02 smanek: which version of slime is this? 08:40:08 (it should say a date on startup) 08:40:22 otherwise, check the top of the Changelog 08:40:49 tcr should wake up and drop in any minute now; he might be able to give you better information 08:40:52 antifuchs: Changelog says 06-25 08:41:03 I don't see a date on startup 08:41:22 ok 08:41:33 ah, it says that on the repl. erm. (: 08:41:45 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:41:47 heh 08:42:08 I'm running latest CVS swank on the server, and latest slime locally 08:42:19 if you do (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf slime-repl)), what happens? 08:42:35 one more thing: do you get a repl if you run slime locally? 08:43:13 antifuchs: (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf slime-repl)) 08:43:27 <[df]> drafael: 08:43:39 <[df]> sorry, mischannel 08:43:48 and I can't run a lisp locally, unfortunately (unrelated reason) 08:44:05 hmm. 08:44:22 I've been having problems with slime-autoloads, by the way. you may be better off using just (require 'slime) 08:44:34 (and it may even start working, who knows) (: 08:44:50 heh, that did the trick 08:44:52 I got a REPL 08:45:02 awesome 08:45:06 have fun now (: 08:46:04 What's provided by autoloads? (I've just always used it ...) 08:46:28 it's just a file with autoload statements 08:46:43 but the delayed loading breaks some contribs 08:47:06 ah, so all the loading just takes place at startup now? I can live with that 08:47:22 haven't gotten around to debugging it a lot when I had that problem, but the only thing autoloading should affect is load time, and I find it doesn't make a big difference 08:47:56 great, thanks for the help 08:48:34 you're welcome 08:55:37 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:58:17 -!- smanek [n=abc@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:00:29 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:05:43 -!- Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:06:10 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:21 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:06:56 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 09:11:26 timor [n=martin@w4477.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 09:13:23 hrm current sbcl fails tests 09:14:51 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:16:30 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 09:18:10 plage [n=user@118.68.32.170] has joined #lisp 09:18:15 Good afternoon! 09:21:31 dismantr [n=jean-bap@lenipc66.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:21:31 -!- dismantr [n=jean-bap@lenipc66.epfl.ch] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:22:48 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:23:52 s0ber [i=pie@118-168-237-48.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:37 dys` [n=andreas@p5B3169D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:03 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 09:29:18 idurand [n=idurand@chataigne.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 09:29:40 hello idurand 09:29:47 hi 09:30:31 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B314E07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:31:46 plage` [n=user@118.68.35.199] has joined #lisp 09:33:39 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:33:49 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.32.170] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:34:05 Is it possible to access to the references of objects and to use them to order objects? 09:34:48 hi idurand (: 09:34:54 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-129-32.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 09:35:16 hi antifuchs 09:35:31 idurand: this depends on the implementation; I think in sbcl, it's map-allocated-objects; you'd have to count references yourself, though 09:36:02 plage [n=user@118.68.33.228] has joined #lisp 09:36:20 what do you mean by "count references yourself"? 09:36:22 an alternative answer is: you can *only* access objects through their references, and there is no ordering defined for them 09:37:19 michaelw: this answers the question, thanks 09:37:23 in sldb, when seeing something like http://paste.lisp.org/display/82544, how to know where the problem is? 09:37:34 *leo2007* is learning debugging 09:39:18 beach [n=user@118.68.35.100] has joined #lisp 09:39:26 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6E63E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:33 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.33.228] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:39:37 -!- beach is now known as plage 09:39:45 leo2007: look at other frames too. and look at the error message. 09:40:00 leo2007: there may be a frame that is in your code; you can move to that frame and hit "v" 09:40:16 if you compile with high debug (easy with sbcl: C-u C-c C-c on a defun) it will jump to the right form. 09:40:58 Xach: is that the same as (debug 3) 09:41:35 leo2007: I think so. 09:41:59 leo2007: isn't this aref missing some index? 09:42:00 Xach: thanks, I type 'v' and it flashes the area where the bug is 09:42:13 does that help? 09:42:16 What's arg-0? it doesn't show in the form. 09:42:43 plage`` [n=user@118.68.34.218] has joined #lisp 09:42:49 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-03783.externet.hu] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 09:43:08 plage``` [n=user@118.68.32.116] has joined #lisp 09:43:39 I give up. The Wifi is too flaky this afternoon! 09:43:44 -!- plage``` [n=user@118.68.32.116] has left #lisp 09:44:05 poor beach. 09:44:10 :( 09:44:13 splittist [n=dmurray@ASt-Lambert-153-1-17-128.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:44:14 plage``: Go closer to the AP! 09:44:17 morning 09:44:26 Xach: yes, very very helpful 09:44:36 -!- dys` is now known as dys 09:44:53 matimago: yes, I find the problem, I am debugging it 09:45:00 ok. 09:45:15 [Blay] [n=blaay@BSN-143-48-198.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:36 fiveop_ [n=fiveop@pD9E6C8EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:26 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:46:51 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:50:32 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-18-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 09:50:45 -!- plage` [n=user@118.68.35.199] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:50:47 mega1 [n=mega@pool-03783.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:51:45 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:52:07 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 09:53:08 -!- idurand [n=idurand@chataigne.labri.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:53:15 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-201-218-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:53:15 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:53:23 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:08 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:55:59 is there a forum other than comp.lang.lisp? 09:56:18 neilv: there are some national newsgroups. no. and fr. come to mind. 09:56:41 How to inspect variables bound inside a function body? 09:56:44 neilv: and there are some implementation specific newsgroups, but more often, implementation specific mail-lists. 09:56:48 naggum is gone, but people keep flaming about him on c.l.l. and xah lee still hasn't gotten a new hobby after all these years 09:57:07 neilv: kill files work well. 09:57:13 neilv: there's also www.lispforum.com 09:57:37 thanks, i'll look at lispforum.com 09:58:46 leo2007: pressing `i' when in the frame of the function, you can inspect any value within the context of the function 09:59:16 neilv: you mean the hobby of getting obsessed with vegas prostitutes and blogging extensively about it? 09:59:42 but the function runs without triggering the sldb, do I need to put something like (break) in it? 09:59:49 s/blogging/writing webpages/ 09:59:54 kiuma [n=kiuma@proxy.emea.fedex.com] has joined #lisp 10:00:00 leo2007: then you can just (print my-local-variable) 10:00:17 ok 10:00:18 leo2007: or better, write a macro (show my-local-variable) which prints MY-LOCAL-VARIABLE = 10:00:26 ;) 10:00:50 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.35.100] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:00:53 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6E63E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:02:24 -!- QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:02:27 -!- plage`` [n=user@118.68.34.218] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:03:45 ah well. today's work is in scheme anyway. c.l.s is a bit less violent than c.l.l 10:09:12 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-142-209.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:12:45 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:13:26 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #lisp 10:18:49 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.129.71] has joined #lisp 10:19:35 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has joined #lisp 10:20:44 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 10:21:39 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-190.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 10:30:30 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:30:41 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:31:28 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:12 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 10:32:44 -!- jewel_ is now known as jewel 10:35:28 -!- timor [n=martin@w4477.dip.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:37:19 -!- laynor [n=laynor@93.107.70.207] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:37:31 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-4fe070d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:42:26 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@proxy.emea.fedex.com] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 10:42:55 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-45.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 10:43:07 mikezor [n=mikael@c-4fe070d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:43:24 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 10:43:32 aerique: lispforum.com sucks, all the cool kids are using stackoverflow.com 10:44:46 But all the lisp questions at stackoverflow are about clojure :( 10:45:28 that's because CL is easy to understand, even for web forum users 10:46:16 Ah! 10:47:08 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-30-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:49:17 splittist: nah, not true. 10:49:37 and because of stackoverflow seems to overflow with web2.0 people, who can't be spotted using something so 'old' last their epeen gets smaller 10:49:53 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 10:50:40 dunno about that, I just follow the 'lisp' tag. 10:51:58 splittist: there are 255 questions tagged 'lisp' and of those only 23 are tagged 'clojure'. 10:52:17 isn't stackoverflow kinda restrictive? 10:52:25 in what way? 10:52:37 question. -> answer. 10:53:37 there is room for some discussion, but yeah that is the main mode of operation. 10:53:49 i like kennys drunken rants sometimes .. *shrug* and erik had a lot of interesting things to say bot on- and off-topic imho 10:53:57 both* 10:54:03 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:54:13 sure, long live c.l.l 10:54:18 heh :) 10:54:51 but this scheme works very well to keep answers up-to-date and to avoid answering the same questions over and over. 10:55:04 yeah 10:57:26 maybe google wave is the "next big thing" .. i never did see that video 10:57:50 i hope google do a better job wrt. spam than they do on google groups 10:58:31 as in "any job at all"? 10:58:37 heh, yeah 10:58:49 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:00:27 OT: anyone know of some web forum software that includes an email/nntp gateway? 11:01:05 either/or or both? 11:01:14 either/or 11:02:30 Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 11:02:50 i use groups.google.com for a couple things like that 11:03:20 right. cl-ppcre is installed (debian), how in the world can i access it in slime? i've tried a variety of asdf commands and require without success. 11:05:01 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:06:36 Demosthenes: i don't know, but the documentation for common-lisp-controller might say 11:06:51 -!- This_Is_My_World [n=sea_4_ev@216.110.106.5] has quit [No route to host] 11:07:11 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 11:11:56 timor [n=martin@w4227.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 11:12:02 CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.114.7] has joined #lisp 11:12:10 *cmm* checks stackoverflow's lisp tag, find most of the questions inane 11:12:15 is anybody here interested in participating in the ICFP competition? 11:12:25 perhaps the answers are better 11:12:29 I've created a #consalot for a common lisp team 11:12:54 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:12:58 Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 11:12:58 -!- benbelly1 [n=ben@cpe-74-67-149-169.rochester.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 11:13:33 cmm: lispm answers many of them diligently. 11:13:54 Xach: hmm, I guess one can even feed it into gmane to get nntp as well. 11:14:16 antifuchs: he's amazing :) 11:14:28 HET3 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:15:34 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:16:23 superhuman ignorance shrugging-off capabilities 11:16:28 besides ; are there other ways of commenting code? 11:16:29 -!- HET3 is now known as HET2 11:17:41 jmbr [n=jmbr@74.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:17:47 apart from #| |#, #+(or) and the various combinations of ;s? 11:17:55 danlei [n=user@pD9E2F261.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:17 antifuchs: thank you. where to find document on this #| thing? 11:18:20 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@210-20-93-83.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:18:50 -!- cracki [n=cracki@42-078.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 11:18:53 clhs #| 11:18:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhs.htm 11:18:54 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:18:59 mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 11:19:14 antifuchs: didn't you hear? #+#:ignore is the new #+(or) 11:19:21 oooh 11:19:28 nice one! 11:24:23 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-30-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:24:32 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:24:56 -!- timor [n=martin@w4227.dip.tu-dresden.de] has left #lisp 11:25:03 jsoft [n=user@118-93-61-228.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:28:24 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:23 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-66-250.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:29:39 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 11:31:11 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-45.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 11:31:15 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:31:34 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:35:10 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-190.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 11:40:37 shagou [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-85.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:41:19 how to make format output immediately? 11:41:48 I am having a slow function that takes about a minute to run, I like to print some info before it goes into the slow part 11:42:32 hmm, are you printing to stdout? 11:43:04 leo2007: finish-output 11:43:09 use #'force-output 11:43:48 daniel__ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:43:59 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:45:39 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:47:28 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:50:48 malcolm_reynolds [n=malcolm_@78-86-4-156.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:51:18 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:51:34 ignas_ [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:52:50 fe[nl]ix and blandest: thank you. both works 11:53:43 leo2007: if you're printing to a line-buffered stream, printing a newline should work too. 11:54:13 -!- abeaumont_ [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:55:59 is t a line-buffered stream? 11:57:19 it depends. Usually yes. Maybe in SLIME it isn't? 11:57:56 ok, thanks for the note 11:58:00 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:58:54 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:00:07 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-131-126.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 12:00:15 -!- Ppjet6 is now known as Pepe_ 12:04:03 right, so i'm using sbcl and cl-ppcre is installed. i've been reading the gnu clisp manual which indicates they have builtin regexps... but it shouldn't be that hard to use the lib. 12:04:35 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:04:44 Demosthenes: cl-ppcre is nice because it will go with you if you have to change implementations. 12:04:48 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 12:05:47 tmh: i understand that, sounds like a great feature 12:06:01 Demosthenes, (require :cl-ppcre) and go .. (assuming things are installed correctly; i can't help you with the "debian way" wrt. lisp libraries by the way -- i don't think there are many here who take that approach wrt. installing lisp libraries) 12:06:02 yet here i am at the prompt in slime wishing to experiment with it, and just can't seem to load it :P 12:06:44 require should return true if it succeeds? 12:07:34 Implementation dependent 12:07:37 here it returns nil .. i've already compiled cl-ppcre before though 12:08:04 (member :cl-ppcre *features*) 12:08:33 CL-USER> (require :cl-ppcre) => NIL CL-USER> (cl-ppcre:split " " "Hello Lisp World") => ("Hello" "Lisp" "World") 12:09:07 oh man, all the tutorial examples require CL-PPCRE: prefixes :P 12:09:51 CL-USER> (use-package :cl-ppcre) => T, CL-USER> (split " " "Hello Non-Prefix Lisp World") => ("Hello" "Non-Prefix" "Lisp" "World") 12:10:44 it appears to have loaded then, off to play with regexp 12:10:52 cool :) 12:11:10 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 12:11:17 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483DF8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:04 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-22-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:13:36 Demosthenes: you can also use the ppcre: prefix, but that's not much shorter :) 12:14:27 use (package-nicknames :your-pacakge) to list all nicknames (that can be used as "prefixes") 12:14:49 great 12:17:29 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.129.71] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:18:15 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:24:38 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@24.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:24:44 Demosthenes: http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html is something i wrote about my process, it mentions cl-ppcre as an example 12:25:23 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:39 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@74.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:26:34 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.124.28] has joined #lisp 12:26:47 sunwukong [n=vukung@210-20-93-83.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:27:01 hrmpf, if stackoverflow is an example of Joel Spolsky's work... 12:27:43 it seems at this point it's an example of the work of tens or hundreds of thousands 12:30:09 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:30:29 harleqin [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-156-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:30:33 hello 12:31:24 always keep your teams small, spoketh Fred Brooks 12:31:27 aerique: more influenced by the CodingHorror person, I think 12:31:40 (which should NOT be reassuring) 12:33:28 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-22-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:33:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-45.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 12:33:43 aerique: that worked out swimmingly for encyclopedias vs. wikipedia 12:34:14 Xach: touche :) 12:35:01 Ah man, I just order a set of encyclopedias. 12:35:19 The shipping costs were insane. 12:35:34 But I got to kill a bunch of trees, so it all comes out in the wash. 12:35:52 Xach: I don't think Fred Brookes was talking about trivially parallelizable tasks 12:36:07 dabd [n=dabd@85.139.102.242] has joined #lisp 12:36:21 -!- A_anekos is now known as anekos 12:36:28 dlowe: it seems equally inapplicable to stack overflow 12:38:22 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@24.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:47:44 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 12:51:44 hi 12:52:45 brookes was talking about synchronization, communication, and management costs 12:53:15 and he _did_ mention that things like "electronic mail" could allow bigger teams :) 12:53:28 brooks, even 12:53:56 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:54:25 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:55:03 -!- shagou [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-85.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 12:55:10 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-85.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:55:31 so, is there a quick way to convert a vector to a list? 12:55:36 Considering we've been constant folding (+ [float-variable] 0.0) away since forever, I think nobody cares much about strict conformance to the spec re fp :\ 12:55:50 Demosthenes: (coerce vector 'list) 12:55:59 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:56:43 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@210-20-93-83.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Success] 12:56:50 pkhuong: did you see sidney's bugreport? 12:57:44 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:57:46 nikodemus: yes. two-arg-+ and two-arg-- were still "optimising" the complex-real case. 12:58:13 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-72-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:58:25 ok 12:59:26 Coffee first, then commit a fix for the above two things and a NEWS entry. 13:00:05 mm, i'll stick to tea 13:00:07 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:51 anyone looking at ifcp this year? 13:01:19 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-0-87.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:01:26 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-11-70.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:23 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 13:04:56 nikodemus: jewel was 13:08:11 antifuchs: I might be in a mostly CL team with MSIer. 13:08:15 *MSIers. 13:08:23 sweet 13:08:28 hope you win (: 13:08:58 NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-135.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:14:11 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:02 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:17:20 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-40-248.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:17:23 when it reports 491,424,056 bytes consed 13:17:29 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-85.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Success] 13:17:34 does that mean how much memory is used? 13:17:47 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:55 no. That's how many bytes were allocated (consed). 13:19:03 TDT [i=dthole@dhcp80ff869b.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 13:21:01 -!- NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-135.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 13:21:06 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-135.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:22:19 Nice..found out with my library that git does send errors to stderr, makes these tests I spoke about a few days ago so much easier to deal with. 13:24:25 pkhuong: thanks 13:25:02 right, so i think i've got a working example now using named captures in lisp (sbcl + cl-ppcre) 13:25:33 Demosthenes: sweet 13:26:00 http://pastebin.com/d39dcc44a 13:26:06 and the corresponding perl code 13:26:09 http://pastebin.com/d373548b6 13:26:32 i'm trying to remember why i thought i should learn lisp after seeing that example :P 13:26:56 If I wrote lisp like that, I would probably not use it either. 13:27:18 hey, first ever lisp program 13:27:23 *zing* 13:27:33 i welcome constructive critisism 13:27:47 eni4ever [n=admin@79.114.44.104] has joined #lisp 13:28:34 After your initial comment, I just don't have the energy to try. Good luck with it, though. 13:30:06 *grin* it can be exasperating. i am making an effort to pickup lisp though i'm proficient in perl, mostly to hack on org-mode. i picked something like this because its an example of what i do often in eprl 13:30:21 elisp is that way => #emacs 13:30:22 goodness, I had forgotten quite how, well, like that perl could be 13:31:04 merimus [n=wroth@nat-49.laurelnetworks.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:08 Demosthenes: my earnest advice would be, don't try to translate perl style into lisp code, but learn lisp style on its own terms. i think paradigms of AI programming and Practical Common Lisp are good ways to do that for common lisp. 13:31:19 dlowe: i thought it prudent to pickup common lisp first, and then specialize 13:31:22 Demosthenes: for elisp, i'm not so sure, but i think there is a lot of existing code you can review. 13:31:30 Demosthenes: no way. don't learn elisp in terms of common lisp, either. 13:31:37 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:53 Demosthenes: despite the surface similarity, they're really quite different 13:31:55 perhaps i misunderstood then, that elisp was just lisp but with its own set of libraries... 13:31:57 Demosthenes: The big problem I see with this is that you're spliting things out too far - there's a segment for everything, when with the regexp that you're pulling out you should be able to assign directly to the has as you want. 13:32:32 TDT: i'm sure it could use some refinement, and eliminating extra variables would be the first place. i'm tinkering with it already to try and eliminate that 13:32:34 What does that perl do? 13:32:43 "Some people, when confronted with a problem, think: "I know, I'll use regular expressions..."" 13:32:45 i just moved it out of slime into a lisp script... 13:32:59 Demosthenes: Making the has, then doing separate stuff for the keys then values then merging seems just inefficient to me - then printing it out that way you don't need either - you could do it through a loop, not that maphash is a bad idea maybe 13:33:02 herbieB: same thing lisp does, those two samples are for most purposes identical 13:33:13 i have no idea what you are doing there 13:33:17 Demosthenes: Ok, what does the lisp do? :P 13:33:30 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-22-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:33:30 herbieB: named captures via a regexp. 13:33:50 http://pastebin.com/d4d84d818 13:33:54 there's the output from both 13:34:11 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-41-17.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:12 if you learn common lisp first, then elisp will just annoy you 13:34:25 TDT: i don't care for the way the regexp lib breaks out the steps for a named capture... 13:34:27 (the name is slightly misleading; elisp is not in any way a derivative of common lisp) 13:35:44 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:51 c++ isn't c, but its easier if you know c syntax first. 13:36:34 Demosthenes: C is largely a subset of C++. Not so with elisp and CL. 13:36:52 easy4 [n=easy4@c-68-45-192-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:11 artagnon [n=artagnon@unaffiliated/artagnon] has joined #lisp 13:37:22 herbieB: named capture is a way to extract text values using a regular expression, and instead of the return being based on position (ie: first match, second match, etc) and you having to manually keep track of the offset of the value you wanted, a named capture allows you to name each value and refer to it that way. 13:37:48 luis: s|sub|super| ;-) 13:37:58 herbieB: oddly enough, using it with cl-pprce you give it the regexp, it passes back a list of the names, so you don't have to manually maintain the offset, but you still have to map the output 13:38:12 I would like to add some persistent storage capabilities to my Emacs Lisp program. Which database backend should I use? ie. There's no point using Postgres or MySQL if I have to write interfacing libraries for them from scratch. 13:38:13 Demosthenes: register-groups-bind is handy for htat. 13:38:28 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 13:38:29 herbieB: this is a SIMPLE example, i have whole paragraph record regexps that i was considering converting 13:39:31 Xach: i was looking at that, but it has the same positional problem that perl does in the same instance. 13:39:50 when you get more than 5 values being returned, its a pita to split them and keep track of position 13:40:45 in perl the fact that a named capture is returned in a hash for fast indexing is great! here i'm having to build that hash and i question its value. 13:41:05 how many values are you going to have there? 13:41:14 i mean, this is basic text extraction. i don't control the data sent to me, at all, but i have to extract meaningful data to put in sql fo rlater processing 13:41:18 an alist or a plist would be a more lispy solution 13:41:34 artagnon: that -> way for #emacs. 13:41:37 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:41:44 guaqua: i wouldnt' expect more than 30 13:41:54 guaqua: so a alist/plist may be faster than the hash 13:41:58 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 13:42:03 pkhuong: ok. I'll ask in #emacs 13:42:06 thansk 13:42:08 Demosthenes: I'm guessing asking for xml is too much ?:P 13:42:19 herbieB: OH i wish :P 13:42:23 again, no control over inpu 13:42:38 Demosthenes: Well, what happens if someone sends a sexp to your perl right now :P 13:42:44 Demosthenes: Obviously you ahve SOME control over input. 13:42:58 and i'm extracting data from a variety of record types in different formats, so i actually was using dispatch tables of regexps in perl... which are complicated, but a lispy thing to do 13:43:06 Demosthenes: yes, you might have to write some utility function yourself to do extraction compared to what's built in perl. How is that a surprise? 13:43:19 pkhuong: no surprise. i'm learning. 13:43:31 i posted the examples for input, everyone's been quite insightful 13:43:36 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:44:06 herbieB: input comes as a collection of files from a vendor, i do what i can to get data out 13:44:21 Demosthenes: if perl works, why don't you use that? 13:44:40 Demosthenes: it might also help if you write your program as a function, instead of a script. Get rid of the global variables. 13:44:50 pkhuong: i could, but i'm trying to learn lisp. wouldn't you pick a common use case to model while you're trying a new language? 13:45:17 I'd pick a common use case for that language. 13:45:20 Demosthenes: I'm not so sure I would. The temptation to compare the new unfavorably with the old would be pretty strong. 13:45:25 luis: i agree. i was considering wrapping portions of it up and seeing if i could use a function/macro to return a plist without me manually maintaining the mappings 13:45:58 Xach: and yet i didin't just throw it out, i'm trying to improve it to be better lisp 13:46:12 packing that into a usable library would be lispy, too. then make it provide a meaningful symbolic output and use that somewhere else 13:46:23 *nod* yep 13:46:31 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 13:46:53 -!- artagnon [n=artagnon@unaffiliated/artagnon] has left #lisp 13:51:15 ... for some reason, I've just been reading Erik Naggum's quotes on Perl... 13:51:34 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:52:13 p_l: that's a classic 13:53:04 dlowe: I just noticed that we have someone comparing code in Perl with CL just when I've got to reading Naggum's wikipedia entry :D 13:53:15 salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has joined #lisp 13:53:30 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@130.226.210.2] has quit ["leaving"] 13:55:24 antoni [n=user@119.pool85-53-18.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 13:55:38 plage [n=user@118.68.39.146] has joined #lisp 13:55:42 Good evening 13:55:50 at least i wasn't comparing visual basic and lisp ;] 13:57:29 *p_l* recalls the first (and hopefully last) VB.NET project he had been on. Its perversity was greater than normal 13:57:31 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:57 morning 13:58:03 hello slyrus 13:58:21 Morning everyone. 13:58:22 hey beach. how's vietnam treating you? 13:58:30 hey gigamonkey 13:58:30 hey gigamonkey 13:58:33 hey gigamonkey 13:58:36 Is anyone here a math PhD? 13:58:45 yes 13:58:50 why? 13:58:50 slyrus: Fine. Another week to go. It's just flying by too quickly. 13:59:09 and hi! (hi beach!) 13:59:24 So I wonder--on the way to becoming a mathematician, do you do most of your interesting math as part of your academic courses (and other official work like theses)? 13:59:59 Or does all the really interesting work happen as a result of stuff you do just because you want to? 14:00:09 that's an interesting question 14:00:31 It seems like programmers, even ones with a C.S. PhD, mostly learn to program on their own. 14:00:35 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:00:39 I'm wondering how it is in other fields. 14:00:48 i think that courses, particularly with a good prof, can force you to look into interesting things that you would have missed 14:01:05 and i should note that "core" requirements are very different in differen departments 14:01:40 but i'd still say that once you've got the background mostly sorted out, you tend to find things on your own, at need and also by interest 14:02:17 gigamonkey: After going through first year of CS undergrad course, I'd say I wouldn't trust someone who learnt all of his programming knowledge from it. 14:02:43 p_l: lol, yeah..but undergrad is about hand holding people to understanding stuff..sadly 14:03:22 TDT: fortunately, the library was well-stocked 14:03:31 gigamonkey: also, many fields of mathematics are far more mature than CS, let along programming (which is a mix of things) 14:03:45 ignas_ [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 14:03:58 there's always a trade off between learning what's known, and coming up with things on your own 14:04:16 you learn more from the latter, usually, but it's not very efficient! 14:04:19 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 14:04:28 p_l: True that - but undergrad bothered me a lot..I didn't learn much from college in the undergrad program. in the graduate program, it's been great so far though. 14:04:46 Been toying with going into the PHD program for awhile now...*sigh*I really should nail that down if I want to or not. 14:04:51 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 14:05:12 salex: that's sort of what I was wondering about--in a mature field like math, do people actually learn the stuff within an academic setting. 14:06:37 some of it certainly. there is a core of stuff you need to understand just to have the conversations. Some of this is the distillation of decades or even centuries of hard work by smart people 14:07:00 you can't just rework it yourself in an afternoon. 14:07:08 (or a decade) 14:07:46 on the other hand, the stuff you do on your own, fumbling as it may be, is what will actually make you a mathematician 14:07:53 as a former programmer gone into engineering physics and chemistry, i can say that when you deal with phycisists or mathematicians you really do stop and listen. these are people that usually stand on /very/ solid ground and the rules of the game are not as fuzzy as in the world of CS. 14:08:48 hypno: Hmm, that's interesting..I haven't really dealt with anything fuzzy in CS - but I'm mostly in the data mining field, which is a huge portion of mathematics. 14:10:05 -!- asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit ["Be back later"] 14:10:05 parts of CS can probably be though of as easily as a branch of applied mathematics 14:10:29 depending on what your working on, you may be able to pull in 200 years of knowledge, or 2 years 14:10:33 it makes a difference 14:10:46 Demosthenes: http://pastebin.com/d30df44c5 # i must be nuts to spend my time on stuff like this 14:11:17 nikodemus: it's hard to turn down sincerity 14:11:27 nikodemus: I raise you one http://pastebin.com/m786722c4 :) 14:11:32 funny how the unhighlighted version in the editor box is actually easier to read on that page. 14:11:39 salex: True - I'm not really sure how long probability and statistics has been around...it's based a lot in that field, as well as business. 14:11:58 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E46F06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:04 TDT, probability has been around for nearly as long as anything 14:12:14 arithmetic is slightly older, but only just 14:12:26 *nod* 14:12:39 on the other hand, a really solid theoretical founding for probability theory is recent 14:13:10 i.e. 70s or so iirc 14:13:49 maybe a little earlier. needs measure theory. 14:14:10 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:14:29 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E47F96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:31 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:15:04 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:15:15 nikodemus: what goe you started on that? 14:16:24 prior discussion 14:16:24 oh, nm, logs know all 14:17:00 indeed 14:18:13 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:24 G'morning all. 14:18:33 helly nyef 14:18:33 Greetings. 14:18:39 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.114.7] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:19:06 Demosthenes: despite to amount of comments, it wasn't too bad for an early effort -- style is hard, and at least you didn't have fingernal clippings in there :) 14:19:34 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 14:19:45 hey nyef 14:19:47 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-72-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19:48 Demosthenes: you might also want to use #!/usr/local/bin/sbcl --script as the shebang line, assuming you sbcl is relatively new 14:20:09 Demosthenes: and of course you want to use Slime, unless you already do :) 14:21:11 arbscht: i wanted to keep the structure of the original _mostly_ intact 14:21:40 nikodemus: fair enough, I pasted that here in sympathy, not to compare :) 14:21:43 -!- vy [n=user@nbvyazici.cs.bilkent.edu.tr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:22:07 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:24:26 where do CCL users typically symlink their asdf systems to? 14:24:28 gigamonkey: one further thought. As a programmer, if not so much as a computer scientist, even today you can read an appreciable percentage of all that is really known about programming, and you can discover a lot for yourself. In most fields the only possibility of doing something like this is through narrow focus and probably actual genius (however to make sense of that, i.e. Ramanujan) 14:25:17 hefner: I have one systems directory in ~/lisp/systems. I symlink .sbcl/systems to that directory and point every other implementation there as well. 14:25:44 ejs0 [n=eugen@155-17-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:54 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.124.28] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:26:09 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.230.147] has quit ["off"] 14:26:23 -!- antoni [n=user@119.pool85-53-18.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:26:31 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 14:26:38 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:26:52 hefner: i don't symlink but push all directories with system files onto *central-registry* (this is on w32 though) 14:27:10 hello 14:27:20 hefner: So, I have a PUSHNEW of the directory onto *central-registry* in ccl-init.lisp 14:27:36 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.122.209] has joined #lisp 14:27:50 aerique, hefner: i'll second aerique. 14:28:14 well, both approaches have their pros and cons 14:28:40 what advantages does the symlink solution have ? :) 14:28:42 I like to symlink .sbcl/systems because it's one less thing in the initialization file. 14:28:46 i usually end up with /usr/local/lisp/, and then i do the whole push-thing regardless of lisp. 14:29:01 so using --no-init in my ccl build is a bad idea? :) 14:29:33 hefner: Nope, just means you'll have to figure out some other way to point it to the correct directory. 14:29:48 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit ["Leaving..."] 14:30:04 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E46F06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:31:31 -!- KingNato_ [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [] 14:31:59 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 14:32:06 tmh: I meant why does asdf choose to use symlinks ? 14:32:51 blandest: I can't answer that design question, I'm just a (l)user. Google it, it has been discussed. 14:32:54 somebody has to scan for those .asd files so that they can be symlinked ... why not just do it dynamically (each time) 14:33:18 it's not that interesting topic anyway :) 14:33:19 blandest: no need to symlink them: just push their directories onto *central-registry*! 14:33:22 blandest: If it is a problem, try something else like mudball or xcvb 14:33:32 matimago: I know, I use that method 14:33:43 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:33:45 that's even more tedious than symlinking 14:33:54 I like using clbuild 14:33:54 plus you have to do it with code 14:34:08 blandest: have a look at: http://paste.lisp.org/display/49261 14:34:08 yes, but in code we trust 14:34:20 *Xach* sometimes uses (asdf:register-permanently #p"...") 14:34:24 abeaumont_ [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 14:34:34 hefner: It's not that bad, you could have a lisp file that you load on initialization. Oh, wait, not you, but most *normal* people that use initialization files. :-) 14:34:52 nikodemus: already in slime (hence the weird line by line nature of the original) and i've already discovered my version of sbcl in debian lenny is too old for --script 14:34:57 I have an init file, but I think it's in poor taste to save-lisp-and-die with someone's init file crap in the core 14:35:24 There's no crap in my rc files... 14:36:00 says you (: 14:36:10 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host98-135-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:36:13 hefner: Good point. 14:36:36 prip_ [n=_prip@host45-129-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:36:54 I mean, I load all kinds of private garbage when my SBCL starts up, but --no-userinit shouldn't break the ability to find systems 14:37:03 (says me, anyway) 14:37:31 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:37:37 when i'm working on an application, i always use --no-userinit and use another init file to set an app-specific registry. 14:37:53 deafmacro [n=user@59.92.192.250] has joined #lisp 14:38:02 Hmm, I've not looked into initialization enough, but it seems there should be a reasonably way to separate user initialization from the other stuff. 14:38:15 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:16 I mainly learn just enough to get by. 14:39:09 -!- abeaumont_ is now known as abeaumont 14:39:38 Xach: when things stabilize, do you tend to dump everything to a core and do that? 14:39:52 *use 14:39:55 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 14:40:02 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:06 salex: lately, yeah. 14:41:16 *Xach* is a work in progress 14:41:48 salex: i've been selling standalone copies of roflbot to website owners, and each time the delivery process gets, i hope, a little nicer. 14:42:02 that's what I tend to do with simulations and stuff, these days, but it's just me so .. 14:42:28 oh? nice! Hope it's making you a bit of scratch. 14:42:50 i'm pretty glad I don't have to formally deliver anything, nearly ever 14:42:58 these days 14:43:16 i am upfront with what you get and what it takes to run, and some people are cool with that and want it anyway 14:43:25 it's definitely not shrinkwrapped off-the-shelf 14:43:39 closest thing I've done to that is a collaborator who needs some stuff I've been working on, so we told them to buy a laptop exactly like mine and I'll clone my environment to it :) 14:43:44 hah 14:43:45 hey, convenience isn't nothing. 14:43:51 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:44:08 (meant in response to your selling it). just because they could do it, doesn't mean it's not worth buying 14:45:56 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.92.192.250] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:48:41 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:51:07 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-22-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:51:44 so anyone have good advice about talking to unknown deans way too early in the morning? /me is a bit stressed about it 14:52:09 my dean was a cool guy 14:52:22 yeah, some are 14:52:34 very encouraging 14:52:48 salex: Read everything about him that you can find, his bio page on the school website, etc. 14:52:58 problem is this is unknown quality. i'm flying out for interviews soon and just found out they've got me schedule to interview with the dean first thing 14:52:58 Or her. :-) 14:53:09 tmh: already on that 14:53:11 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:53:22 that's a good thing 14:53:38 salex: The dean must have a research and publication history, look over that. 14:53:54 it's always good to start off by asking "do you ever press charges?" 14:54:37 salex: Be prepared to describe how your skills compliment the department you are applying into and how that makes the school better over all. 14:55:00 salex: Know the strengths of the department you're going to be in and talk about why you want to be a part of that. 14:55:34 oh, CCL, why do you torture me? you almost work wonderfully, except now you lock up while scanning a directory tree for no good reason. 14:55:53 hefner: cycles? 14:55:56 hefner: Maybe it's not CCL. 14:56:09 possibly not. maybe my streams are still screwed up. 14:56:15 tmh: yeah, he's a chemist so at least i can talk physics to him a bit 14:56:19 oh well, it's slow as hell anyway. 14:57:21 Srsly... CCL has trailing whitespace in its source code. 14:57:40 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:58:20 luis: and tabs all over the place 14:58:21 luis: That is a pet peeve of mine, except that I hate submitting repository patches to fix whitespace issues. So, I know some of my code does as well. 14:58:26 luis: and lots of blank lines 14:58:31 anyway, i guess most of this stuff is 'obvious' but thanks for reiterating. i guess i mostly don't like mornings and meetings and meetings like this that are hard to read 14:58:54 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 14:59:00 that must be why it's so slow! 14:59:36 salex: Relax, he's just a person, it's just a job. An asteroid could destroy the planet before you get to the interview and all of your worrying would have been for nothing. 14:59:46 truth that. 14:59:54 salex: and if it doesn't go well, rob him at gunpoint. 14:59:56 Or she. (tmh needs some serious sensitivity training.) 14:59:56 the market sure does suck this year though :) 15:00:12 tmh: nah, i already said 'he', so you're covered 15:00:43 hefner: I like your style. 15:00:44 anyway, overall i'm pretty relaxed about it. worst case i get a couple free days vacation with beaches and palm trees 15:01:10 i'm just not a morning person anywya, and they are starting me off with the dean. ah well. 15:01:23 I wonder if this is some foreign code versus save-application lossage. I'm not sure what the right thing to do is here (when to call cffi:use-foreign-library). In SBCL, things just work. 15:01:30 c|mell [n=cmell@p3070-ipngn1110marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:01:40 Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:01:45 c|mell: 3h (: 15:02:00 salex: Then don't sleep. If you awake the previous evening at 10:00 PM, when you'll arrive at the dean's it'll be your evening. 15:02:16 matimago: and you're screwed for the rest of the day. 15:02:34 hefner: you have to reload foreign libraries yourself? I don't remember. 15:02:38 matimago: yeah, then when I give my technical talk a 3pm, i'll be in top form ! 15:02:49 pkhuong: no, just go to bed, and go on this way. 15:02:53 Krystof: is there a predefined type in SB!C for floatsy types, (or float (complex float)). 15:03:00 not as far as I know 15:03:01 matimago: it's a day full of meetings 15:03:05 salex: Ah, if you have stuff to do during your sleep hours... 15:03:14 also, (complex float) isn't right, is it -- float will upgrade to real there 15:03:27 it'd be (or float (complex single-float) (complex double-float)) won't it? 15:03:30 hi Krystof 15:03:33 yo 15:04:15 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:05:22 hi pkhuong, the boss gave us paid leave on monday, but off to sleep now, hope to hear your ideas on waking 15:05:26 asksol [n=ask@223.218.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:05:52 Krystof: true. should subtypep be fixed then? (subtypep '(complex real) '(complex float)) => NIL, T. 15:06:24 hm, maybe I am wrong 15:06:28 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:06:40 Krystof: I read the spec your way too. 15:06:55 then it's specifier-type that needs fixing, I think 15:07:22 except that it's not possible to produce a complex with different specialized real/complex parts 15:07:35 so maybe specifier-type is right and I am wrong 15:07:45 I think this confusion is why I didn't fix it when I had energy 15:07:58 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-139-149.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:20 demmel [n=demmel@a064.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:37 heh. been getting much sleep? 15:08:38 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:08:50 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 15:10:44 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 15:12:56 woah. The parser for complex thinks that OR and COMPLEX commute. I think the spec clearly says that (COMPLEX (OR ...)) != (OR (COMPLEX ...) (COMPLEX ...)) 15:14:10 milanj [n=milan@79.101.76.147] has joined #lisp 15:14:15 -!- schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:14:53 hefner: i was fighting with sbcl and ccl on that same issue yesterday 15:15:24 hefner: i have no answers but shared sorrow is halfed sorrow (to literally translate a dutch proverb) 15:15:37 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:15:48 -!- schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has left #lisp 15:16:33 -!- eni4ever [n=admin@79.114.44.104] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:17:06 jmbr [n=jmbr@24.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:17:50 Misery loves company. 15:18:02 kanzure [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 15:18:35 joachifm [n=joachim@ti132110a340-3137.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:19:21 mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 15:21:06 tmh: thanks :) 15:21:14 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:21:25 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 15:21:26 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:21:34 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:01 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:12 aerique: Your version is positive, glass half full. The one I posted is negative. I like your sentiment better. 15:23:18 I'd like to say that Slobodan is wrong here, except for point 2: http://objectmix.com/lisp/316737-c-clos-mapping.html#post1130153 15:23:56 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 15:24:37 Once some abstraction are in place it is infinitely better to work with a 3D engine in CL than it is in the engine's own language (C++). And it becomes less like programming C++ in CL. 15:25:45 -!- pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:26:57 I've always had a mental block about vectors and float consing in CL that puts me off doing 3D anything 15:27:17 right! so my first attempt at refactoring and it looks much nicer 15:27:19 http://pastebin.com/d7eaee96 15:27:37 now i need to examine the other two submissions in depth to see if i missed any best practices ;] 15:27:46 Demosthenes: Prefer SETF over SETQ. 15:27:52 hefner: i did some global illumination work a while ago purely in CL. consing wasn't a problem 15:27:54 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:28:36 salex: did you go out of your way to program around it? was it just a few tight loops? 15:29:07 i wrote some code that generated fast linalg code for n-dimensional vector spaces, then used those objects 15:29:11 tmh: yeah, i'm reading nikodemus comments, he's got a bunch of them i broke, that included ;] 15:29:14 which were basically simple-arrays 15:29:33 a bit hacky, but worked fine 15:29:54 hefner: re consing floats, using local functions works, even (labels (...) (defun external-entry-point ...) ...) 15:30:03 KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:09 once you've got basic floating point dot-, cross-, matrix-vector products etc decently fast, you're mostly concerned elsewhere. 15:30:13 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:15 -!- KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:21 probably the only argument that will convince me is that performance doesn't actually matter for 99% of the code 15:30:22 That'd be one way to implement cheap block compilation, I guess. 15:30:24 i.e. algorithms are a lot more important 15:30:36 hefner: it doesn't :) 15:30:49 now mind, this was a stochastic renderer, not a realtime system 15:31:00 so i wasn't trying to marshall to openGL or anything 15:31:14 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:31:15 but iirc the basic vector space code didn't cons at all 15:31:27 wow, arbscht's loop is great in his example 15:31:29 Demosthenes: I performed a small edit. Put mylist in a let form. 15:31:37 but i think by moving to an alist from a hash simplified things 15:32:00 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-129-32.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:32:01 like, if you're writing a game, there's a huge sprawl of code moving objects around and implementing game logic, throwing vectors around all over, and you just can't reasonably optimize that 15:32:24 most of that isn't actually costly though 15:32:29 tmh: i could see that to keep it local instead of global, its just an example though ;] 15:32:33 (on the other hand, people write game logic in Lua, so..) 15:32:46 <_3b> people write entire engines in flash, so CL should be able to cope :) 15:32:53 Demosthenes: It's more of a style thing. 15:33:06 hefner: how many of those vectors survive a single frame? 15:33:18 *tmh* wishes ID would hurry up with the linux version of Quake Live. 15:33:27 pkhuong: very few. 15:33:29 tmh: urban terror ;] 15:33:47 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:34:10 hefner: writing efficent vector space stuff is quite a differnt challenge from writing a high performance 3D engine based on open GL or Directwhatever 15:34:20 that's fairly language independant 15:34:43 but fwiw, the lisp global illumination stuff i did was not terribly slower than the c++ one it replaced 15:34:49 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 15:35:01 and since they were both stochastic, they had to be pretty efficient 15:35:05 tmh: well i obviously need to be stylish! ;] 15:35:13 hefner: alloc-vector-in-region would have been an easy way out. 15:35:33 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:35:48 Demosthenes: Everyone has their own. Mine is constantly evolving as I learn more. 15:36:21 Demosthenes: I cringe when I look at older code. 15:36:28 *my* older code. 15:36:59 probably a good sign 15:36:59 tmh: http://pastebin.com/d7d6a6130 fixed 15:37:09 always 15:37:12 Demosthenes: it's getting better. Still one too many global variables. And I wouldn't bother with the script glue... 15:37:49 -!- younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:38:04 younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:38:28 luis: the latest shouldn't have any globals 15:39:01 Demosthenes: also, minor detail: the cl-ppcre package has a ppcre nickname. So you can use ppcre:scan-to-strings, etc. I hate cl- prefixes in CL code. :) 15:39:07 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:39:13 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:39:15 *laugh* yeah, i need to make that lowercase too 15:39:18 -!- schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has left #lisp 15:39:25 Demosthenes: just (print (regexp2alist ...)) 15:39:55 luis: now thats cheating! ;] 15:40:14 the test case is because i intend to do somethign with it later, but print was the quick and dirty show what it did.... ;] 15:40:19 tmh: I wonder if it's not actually working already, just has "delivery problems" :D 15:40:41 Demosthenes: for quick and dirty there's the REPL. You're using SLIME right? 15:41:02 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 15:41:10 yep 15:41:16 though i've been running this off the cli 15:41:31 p_l: Something like that. My guess is that the vast majority of people play on Win-something. So, get the bugs hashed there, then worry about Mac and Linux. 15:41:31 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-1-167.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:35 i prototyped in slime while i was figuring out pieces, which is why i had a bunch of globals in the original code 15:42:04 i need to go back and look at how to step through code 15:42:15 is it bad that a new emacs color-theme makes me wanna code more? 15:42:16 tmh: I heard once that ID actually prototypes their games on *nix 15:42:26 Heh, "*SLIME-SCRATCH* Buffer Considered Harmful" 15:42:35 *mcspiff* feels like a ROR rockstar type... 15:42:48 p_l: the first "delivery problem" they ought to fix is that the download for the windows version has never even worked for me the several dozen times I've tried it. 15:42:54 tmh: which is why they are sticking with OpenGL 15:43:01 I used to always use the slime scratch buffer, but decided to modify my behavior when it no longer loaded by default. 15:43:08 hefner: heh. I don't know about that, I haven't played a new game since Witcher 15:43:46 mcspiff: good god, not rockstar. otoh, it's still better than getting hired as "badass" 15:43:47 I liked to play games on linux, until ALSA broke all of them. (grr) 15:43:53 ... alsa 15:43:55 hefner: Too bad, that doesn't bode well for Mac and Linux. Crappy ID. I've been playing Nexuiz lately, works and is fun. 15:44:50 p_l: id take a job as anything from "badass" to "grounds keeper" at the moment ;-) 15:44:51 -!- merimus [n=wroth@nat-49.laurelnetworks.com] has quit [] 15:45:13 mcspiff: ahahaha. 15:45:42 good thing I'm in final stages of getting a job :) 15:45:51 I have heard rumors that one member of this channel held "software archeologist" as a job title a while ago 15:46:03 no word on bullwhip and fedora ownership 15:46:10 mcspiff: "Grounds keeper" could be enjoyable. You'd be outside, get some exercise, might even have some nice scenery. 15:46:57 it may happen yet. Finding a co-op position has been less than fruitful at the moment 15:48:57 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-97.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:49:41 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@ti132110a340-3137.bb.online.no] has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:47 mcspiff: bad year for co-op 15:49:47 hefner: can you use dx for those vectors? 15:49:48 ok, i'm impressed at how well that cleaned up... where perl took forever to introduce that syntax into the core 15:49:58 (for named capture) 15:49:59 positions, i mean 15:50:05 nikodemus: it's an academic argument. 15:50:09 ah 15:51:33 phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:04 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-b86cd6d314979dfa] has joined #lisp 15:52:05 lacedaemon [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 15:52:07 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:52:10 nothing wrong with academic arguments 15:52:15 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 15:52:22 here's another one: you don't need ALSA to play nethack :-) 15:52:23 -!- asksol [n=ask@223.218.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 15:52:24 what was that computer/network monitor system hosted on sbcl? 15:52:39 tritchey's thing? 15:52:44 paragent 15:52:52 aye, that's the one 15:52:52 ingvar had something unpublished going, also. 15:52:53 thanks 15:52:54 Krystof: you do, however, need a lot of time 15:52:57 we _so_ need a "success stories" page on sbcl.org 15:53:01 so perfect if you're trying to avoid work 15:53:43 Must. Resist. The. Nethack. Allure. 15:54:15 I'm not sure what sort of code most arithmetic transforms are meant to improve. 15:54:42 asksol [n=ask@223.218.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:55:04 nikodemus: to catalog the nethack ascensions of the developers? 15:55:09 Guest96360 [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:18 what was that game-ai demo that rolled by on reddiet etc. recently 15:55:19 hefner: awesome idea 15:55:21 (the cl one) 15:55:47 salex: perfectstorm, if recently was a year or two ago 15:55:52 no, days 15:55:58 oh, I missed it. 15:56:42 ... jsut thinkin that could form the base of a nice nethack-like 15:57:04 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ0juIliwL8 15:57:08 lispm posted it 15:57:14 allegro, apparently 15:57:33 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-11-70.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:57:47 gee, can you tell how much I've been procrasinating this week? not enough to start a game of nethack, luckily. 15:58:06 Erik naggum meorial at smuget (Oslo) now. 15:58:10 my games of nethack tend to last about 20 minutes, so it's never been a big problem. 15:58:46 i probably should have said ... not enough to finish a game of nethack, luckily 15:58:50 not that i started one either 16:00:06 I had tunnels of Doom 16:00:18 simular to nethack 16:00:21 Does anyone know if the ILC2009 proceedings got bibtex'ed anywhere? 16:00:29 -!- Guest96360 is now known as rpg 16:00:49 sorry, that was me... 16:00:52 rpg: tried the sigplan archives? 16:01:21 salex: as far as lisp and roguelike goes http://dto.github.com/notebook/rlx.html 16:01:29 *go 16:01:50 yeah, i know they've existed (more than one) 16:02:00 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:02:02 the point was more that the "ai" approach looked interesting 16:02:24 bah, childish bs 16:02:33 ? 16:02:54 what, ai, the link, or nethack? 16:02:56 look up baesian networks 16:02:58 I have spent the last three hours using `print' to debug a function with no avail 16:03:22 way to miss the point, younder 16:03:26 the old adventure games had nothing to teach in terms of AI 16:03:27 and the quotes 16:03:46 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:03:50 I'd highly appreciate ideas on debugging common lisp effectively 16:04:03 leo2007: Use BREAK, it won't give you any more information, but it will make you feel better because it will invoke the debugger. 16:04:18 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 16:04:25 duh 16:04:28 I'm having trouble setting up slime to have two potential inferior lisps... 16:04:59 shoudn't be a problem 16:05:17 tmh: on emacs, when the debug is triggered, all the local variables are still available to check 16:05:28 but it is, could you be more explicit 16:05:38 If I can do something similar, I might be able the fix the function before dark 16:05:55 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:05 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:06:05 dark? You must be far from Oslo? 16:06:11 sun set 16:06:19 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit ["reboot"] 16:06:21 (setq slime-lisp-implementations 16:06:21 '((allegro ("/usr/local/acl181_express/alisp")) 16:06:21 (ecl ("ecl")))) 16:06:26 leo2007: They should be, it helps to bump up your debug setting. You could also try trace. 16:06:27 for some reason, it won't start allegro. 16:06:30 antifuchs: not finding anything obvious there, but everything seems to be behind their paywall... 16:06:42 -!- ejs0 [n=eugen@155-17-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:06:45 antifuchs: I'll try again later --- someone's banging at the door for me to do something more important now... 16:07:00 or psy trance 16:07:06 lol 16:07:59 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:08:11 leo2007: (declaim (optimize debug)) and recompile for mode information in the debugger 16:08:20 s/mode/more/ 16:08:21 Adlai: did you use M- - (meta minus) M-x slime? 16:08:40 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 16:08:43 *tmh* is a debugger noob. 16:08:55 antifuchs, yep, I do M-- M-x slime 16:08:59 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-40-3.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:09:02 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:06 when I type ecl afterwards, it starts up fine. 16:09:10 I have (declaim (optimize (debug 3) (speed 0))) on the top of the file 16:09:11 and if you enter allegro, it doesn't start? what does *inferior-lisp* say? 16:09:14 is that enough? 16:09:18 (and then press enter on top of a frame in sldb) 16:09:58 leo2007: should be, assuming you compile the whole file 16:10:03 ye 16:10:04 yes 16:10:29 nikodemus: how do you usually trigger sldb when the function compiles fine 16:10:40 BREAK 16:11:01 vy [n=user@88.227.110.163] has joined #lisp 16:11:09 tmh: you mean inserting (break) in the function? 16:11:13 Adlai pasted "*inferior-lisp*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82557 16:11:18 Can I substitute 2 symbols at once using substitute function? 16:11:43 leo2007: Yes, I'm also seeing a STEP macro, I've never used it, but you could look at it as well. 16:11:44 For some reason, *inferior-lisp* has the same message twice. 16:11:49 there is no substiture function only setf 16:11:57 mrSpec: use sublis instead 16:11:59 substitute 16:12:00 Why does (defmacro define-conditional-class () (when (find-package "FOO") '(foo:bar) 'no-foo-bar)) complain that «package "FOO" not found»? 16:12:15 sublist, ok thank Phoodus 16:12:20 thanks* 16:12:21 no t. sublis 16:12:33 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:42 the function is sublis oddly enough 16:12:44 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 16:13:05 probably from back in the day with 6-char function name length limits 16:13:12 vy: symbol foo:bar is parsed (and package FOO searched) at READ time, not at WHEN evaluation time. 16:13:16 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 16:13:18 dec bit 16:13:42 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 16:13:43 younder: there is a #'substitute function, too 16:13:55 actually, the message only appears once. 16:13:56 -!- aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:14:03 but only does a single from/to pair 16:14:10 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:23 useless 16:14:49 should be much faster for that case, though 16:15:00 any ideas? 16:15:11 Is there any version of sublis for strings? 16:15:34 find? 16:15:36 for replacing individual characters? 16:15:37 kuwabara: How can I make the former form get READ if FIND-PACKAGE returns at evaluation time? 16:15:39 hardly useless, younder. mrSpec sublis is for trees 16:15:43 vy: using INTERN 16:15:44 what are you actually trying to do? 16:15:45 tmh: thanks 16:15:54 I'd like to change "abba" -> "0110" 16:15:54 maybe use (find-symbol "BAR" (find-package "FOO")) ? 16:16:27 I can use (substitue ... (substitue ..)) but It is not nice ;) 16:16:54 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:16:55 vy: or (find-symbol "BAR" 'FOO)) 16:16:58 leo2007: You're welcome, hope that helps. I don't use the debugger that much because my code just works. ;-) 16:17:28 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 16:17:41 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:17:42 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 16:18:36 tmh: Combine break and sldb, I can inspect the variables now. Thanks. 16:18:36 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:54 fwiw, stepping is often a pretty inefficient way to debug 16:19:05 (this observation is language independent) 16:19:10 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:19:42 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:19:55 has anyone yet used the new describe and formed an opinion (or ran into ugliness or misbehaviour)? 16:20:02 mrSpec: (map 'string (lambda (x) (digit-char (- (char-code x) (char-code #\a)))) "abba") => "0110" 16:20:13 leo2007: Good. salex: I can see that. I've used TRACE, though, to good effect. Although, a scrollable output history is essential. 16:20:23 idiotic me, problem solved, nvm... 16:20:24 kuwabara: tcr: I defined a dummy FOO package with BAR symbol and replaced expression with (defmacro define-conditional-class () (when (find-package "FOO") `(,(find-symbol "BAR" "FOO")) ''no-foo-bar)), this time (define-conditional-class) still returns NO-FOO-BAR. Do I still miss something obvious? 16:20:31 ah map function, thanks stassats 16:21:08 vy: Still wrong 16:21:13 -!- asksol [n=ask@223.218.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 16:21:38 map is a generic function I rarely use. I tend to use the list spesific ones. 16:21:47 vy: Oh, actually, not, but what else do you expect? Of course it will return no-foo-bar 16:21:56 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:22:01 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [] 16:22:51 vy: maybe you want to use IF instead of WHEN, and balance parenthesis differently ? 16:23:01 Oops. 16:26:05 hi. I'm running slime+sbcl under OS X. When i try to jump to the definition of a sbcl function/macro that would be located in sbcl source the wrong path to the file is used and it can't be openend. How can i manually set that path to the right one? 16:26:06 Yup, now it works. 16:26:28 the error message is: Error: failed to find the WRITE-DATE of /opt/local/var/macports/build/_opt_local_var_macports_sources_rsync.macports.org_release_ports_lang_sbcl/work/sbcl-1.0.29/src/code/defmacro.lisp: No such file or directory 16:26:47 _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E46FFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:21 demmel: you need to adjust (logical-pathname-translations "SYS") 16:27:41 nikodemus pasted "setting sbcl source tree root" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82558 16:27:59 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:28:06 nikodemus: Is it explained in the manual? If not, it should! 16:28:18 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:28:46 tcr: kuwabara: Is it possible to use FOO:BAR instead of polluting the code with (find-symbol "BAR" "FOO") statements/symbol-macros everywhere? 16:29:17 yeah, and that -- or something like that -- should probably be in sb-ext 16:29:23 vy: Unfortunately not. I'd propose the syntax foo:::bar (three colons) for such behaviour in the reader 16:30:44 vy: foo:bar is the notation you use in the source, but as soon as it is parsed, it's really a symbol object, whose place is in the package. 16:30:55 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:31:28 pkhuong: fwiw, I think cmucl does the (labels () (defun external-entry-point ...)) trick for implementing block compilation. 16:31:44 or maybe that's just how it's described in the documentation... 16:31:48 the [--more--] in spector inside slime-inspect, is there a key to unfold all of thme 16:31:49 vy: You can use your own reader macro which would expand #/q/foo:bar, or something like that, which is translated to (find-symbol "BAR" (load-time-value (find-package "FOO")) 16:32:31 leo2007: I don't think so, would not be hard to add 16:32:36 -!- dalton [n=user7994@187.34.42.81] has quit ["Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de"] 16:33:20 dalton [n=user7994@187.34.42.81] has joined #lisp 16:33:24 tcr: ;) I can increase the limit for now 16:35:59 Where is the initialization file for ECL? I can't find a reference to this in the manual 16:36:11 -!- smithzv [n=smithzv@c-67-173-240-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:36:13 nvm. 16:36:14 Adlai: ~/.eclrc 16:36:16 I did find a reference. 16:36:23 thx fe[nl]ix 16:42:53 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has joined #lisp 16:43:32 Excellent, a WITH clause in LOOP will destructure a list. 16:44:33 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E47F96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:46:07 Is c-l.net down? I'm trying to get CL+SSL, but it c-l.net isn't responding. 16:46:45 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-03783.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:32 i also can't load the website, though the server is responding to pings normally 16:47:47 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:48:42 hm, any other place where I can get the library? 16:49:35 it works now 16:50:10 actually i think macports didn't even install all sources with sbcl... 16:52:58 tcr: how about a release of editor-hints ? 16:53:34 demmel: sources are not a normal part of a sbcl *installation*; sbcl assumes that if you want them you will either leave the sources in the place you built from or redefine SYS: to refer to another source tree 16:53:47 macports, on the other hand, cleans up builds 16:54:07 kpreid: so i download them 16:54:28 benny99 [n=benny@p5486E14C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:29 plage` [n=user@58.186.146.183] has joined #lisp 16:56:38 Adlai: it seems to be working ok now 16:56:54 yep 17:00:35 -!- nfma [n=nuno@ip-87-86-105-3.easynet.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:01:07 pkhuong: erm, I think there's a problem in your latest patch 17:01:09 - ((complex complex) 17:01:09 + ((complex complex) + 17:02:02 Oh noes! 17:02:52 also, "yo dude I put a complex in your complex so that your complex could be complex", but that is not relevant right now 17:03:06 -!- djkthx is now known as codefacekillah 17:03:18 :D 17:03:35 asksol [n=ask@223.218.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:04:54 asksol_ [n=ask@223.218.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:04:58 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:06:38 -!- demmel [n=demmel@a064.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [] 17:07:34 -!- benny99 [n=benny@p5486E14C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:07:34 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 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17:09:37 froydnj: that's sort-of equivalent to how it is implemented 17:09:39 -!- illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:10:22 froydnj: but it's a done by collecting all the lambdas in a file into a single component -- approximately 17:11:11 zimbu [n=user@pool-71-248-48-170.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:36 so, no comments on the new improved describe? i was expecting that at least someone finds it too verbose or something 17:11:42 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.39.146] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:11:59 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:12:09 illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:28 looks nicer 17:13:48 kidd1 [n=kidd@111.Red-193-152-161.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:20 nikodemus: i don't remember seeing an actual example in your email. did i miss it, or was it a skeleton? 17:15:46 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-5554e4dd6e2feb67] has joined #lisp 17:16:25 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 17:17:44 just a skeleton 17:18:01 pkhuong: thanks for adding the NEWS entry. 17:18:08 i liked the general idea but haven't built a sbcl with it yet 17:18:15 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:18:22 MrPat [n=MrPat@dhcp-pa-67-20-227-48.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:57 nikodemus pasted "examples" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82560 17:19:51 nikodemus pasted "does this look sane for SB-EXT" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82561 17:19:56 i find it easier to read 17:20:02 cinayakoshka [n=bar@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 17:20:25 elliotstern_ [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:35 deafmacro [n=user@59.92.192.250] has joined #lisp 17:20:52 one happy side effect was actually learning how to use the pretty-printer :) 17:21:07 -!- asksol_ [n=ask@223.218.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:21:50 nikodemus: why? Why not just keep the 'you can set the "SYS" host translations yourself'? 17:22:14 how often is anyone going to use this? 17:22:29 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3070-ipngn1110marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:22:43 anyone who uses a pre-built sbcl and wants M-. to work has to use it 17:22:50 Krystof: very 17:23:15 -!- MrPat [n=MrPat@dhcp-pa-67-20-227-48.consolidated.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:23:32 and i think it's preferable to have API functions unless we are really sure that SYS:SRC; and SYS:CONTRIB; are there forever 17:23:38 nikodemus: no, they set the translations for "SYS" before saving a core 17:23:58 -!- dabd [n=dabd@85.139.102.242] has quit [Client Quit] 17:25:01 nikodemus: why? This is the kind of thing that people do by hand, once, surely? 17:25:34 it's not like every library will be depending on "SYS:SRC;" being a particular thing 17:25:48 i don't follow 17:26:30 the utility of a shared vocabulary is such that parties A and B can do useful stuff without reference to party S, the sbcl distributor 17:27:21 i still don't quite follow 17:27:32 this (whether it's "SYS" or sb-ext:sbcl-source-pathname) is not the kind of thing that A and B need to agree on, because it is each individual's choice and responsibility as to how they do things, and there aren't dependencies on each person's way of doing things 17:27:58 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:28:10 it's each individuals responsibility to set the translations, yes 17:28:20 what is the advantage to others that there is (setf (sbcl-source-pathname) ...) rather than (setf (logical-pathname-translations "SYS") ...)? 17:29:09 the first is plenty easier to use. logical pathname translations are not an everyday thing for most cl users, i believe 17:29:43 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:29:44 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:17 you believe or you know? 17:30:17 and if we add a new translation that should also point under the source directory, unless we have an API function to update every translation that should point there everyone has to adjust their .sbclrc (or whatever) 17:30:58 I would suggest instead adjusting install.sh such that it points "SYS" to a sensible, defined location, and provide a source tarball which can be extracted to that location 17:31:34 that at least would have the virtue of making the user do _fewer_ things to make things Just Work 17:31:44 smithzv [n=smithzv@c-67-173-240-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:54 rather than the same number of things but spelt differently 17:31:57 that's not a bad idea at all 17:32:11 why not have install.sh dump a core with appropriate paths? 17:32:34 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-22-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:34 i have to confess that i also have no idea how to document SYS translations sensibly 17:34:13 kpreid: surely you're not suggesting changes that would make it easier for people to build, install and run sbcl! 17:34:30 no, just to be able to find the sources with M-. 17:34:45 this is interesting: http://www.colorforth.com/S40.htm 17:35:09 nikodemus: in words? "The 'contrib' directory points to the locations of the contributed modules. The 'src' directory points to the source tree"? 17:35:12 i've wondered for a long time why asynchronous processors haven't made more of a market. 17:35:36 deafmacr` [n=user@59.92.158.81] has joined #lisp 17:35:52 c|mell [n=cmell@p2045-ipngn401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:38:23 Joreji [n=user@41-194.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:39:23 milanj- [n=milan@77.46.169.71] has joined #lisp 17:40:22 imo documentation then needs to go (if we're the least bit friendly) into a fair amount of detail on how to set up the translations correctly -- so that pasting the SETF function into a @lisp block in documentation is probably easier than trying to explain it all 17:40:56 i don't have any real data to back me up, but i'm pretty sure LPNs are an exotic topic 17:41:01 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 17:41:13 i'll think about this 17:42:25 Xach: did you take the algorithm from the daliclock source for your ZX demo? 17:43:52 re. changing default location (and making install.sh optionally install sources there): what should it be? /usr/local/src/sbcl? 17:43:56 Fade: no, the daliclock is a lot different 17:44:07 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:44:15 nikodemus: maybe /usr/local/share/sbcl 17:44:16 Fade: mine is more shuffling splines around, daliclock is about scanline segments 17:44:19 -!- deafmacr` [n=user@59.92.158.81] has left #lisp 17:44:32 your transform is a lot smoother, which is why I was curious. 17:46:11 asksol [n=ask@223.218.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:47:17 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.76.147] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:49:52 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 17:51:05 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.92.192.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:51:13 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:59 looking at fhs that seems like the right place, since /usr/local/src is not mentioned at all 17:53:02 salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has joined #lisp 17:53:46 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-204-143.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:54:12 nikodemus: somewhere different on windows; probably alongside wherever it is we install everything else 17:54:15 everybody away that the ICFP programming contest is about to begin, right? 17:54:27 aware, I mean 17:54:39 include source in the .msi? 17:54:51 i'm sure everyone is paying as much attention as usual, smithzv (iow, not a whole ton) 17:55:03 stuart71 [n=user@75-145-221-229-Memphis.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:20 salex: ok, don't know what came over me... :( 17:55:22 install.sh is really only for cygwinoid installs there 17:55:31 ruediger_ [n=ruediger@62-47-142-144.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:55:38 Is there a way to secure swank? 17:55:54 smithzv: oh, i didn't mean it htat way. peopel will probably talk about it a bit, if only to talk about how bad/good this years is 17:56:06 stuart71: ssh tunnel? 17:56:07 one or two might give it a go, or 1/2 a go 17:56:12 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-142-209.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:56:20 stassats: from local users? 17:56:54 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:57:17 one thing i've also been pondering is installing both bin/sbcl and lib/sbcl as sbcl-, making the unqualified ones symlinks, and setting the default SBCL_HOME with the right hardcoded version string 17:57:48 then add uninstall.sh to delete old versions 17:58:04 i did something like this for a while to get around 32 and 64 bits on the same NFS storage 17:58:10 by hand, i mean 17:59:27 stassats: there's an "owner" module for iptables that lets you make rules (on the OUTPUT chain only) based on the uid of the user generating the packet. 18:00:09 I was wondering if anyone had tried that and found it to be insecure. 18:00:47 stuart71: slime also lets you use a password cookie file, iirc 18:00:50 http://paste.lisp.org/display/82565 i think this used to work 18:01:04 ugh .... no, wait .. ignore me .. :/ 18:01:59 i'll post another paste, i think 18:02:09 stuart71: i don't understand what security do you want 18:02:16 Krystof: doh! thanks. 18:02:59 I think, stassats, he doesn't want other users on the same machine to connect to his Swank server and thereby use his Lisp image. 18:03:17 Xach: I found something mentioned about that by Mark Wooding. Something aboout a ".slime-secret" file? 18:03:26 stuart71: yeah. 18:03:59 Xach: so the post I saw was back in 2005. I didn't know whether that was part of swank now or not. 18:04:01 Riastradh: i see, i thought more about encryption 18:04:22 stuart71: the code is still in slime.el and swank.lisp 18:04:48 stuart71, just create a file ~/.slime-secret with, I think, whatever you want in it, and local Emacs and local Lisp will both read from it to authenticate. 18:05:16 I guess the iptables owner module could make it more difficult to crack, too 18:05:56 I'll try the .slime-secret. That has the advantage of not needing to be root to adjust iptables. 18:06:13 Of course, make sure that ~/.slime-secret is readable only by you. 18:06:21 _3b` [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:27 pkhuong: there's a whole heap of things that in user code should be STYLE-WARNING, but in sbcl builds should cause it to complain really loudly 18:06:51 unused variable references (and unused tagbody tags) should probably be among them 18:06:55 brb 18:07:04 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [No route to host] 18:07:33 Krystof: makes sense 18:08:46 always, I hope 18:08:53 except possibly when I am frunk 18:09:05 rpg [n=rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:24 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:09:29 -!- rpg [n=rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:10:03 rpg [n=rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:27 Okay, thanks for the help, guys. :) 18:12:06 <_3b> heh, i guess icfp site wasn't ready for the demand :) 18:13:37 <[df]> heh 18:13:43 <[df]> has no-one ever won it using lisp? 18:14:04 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:14:29 [df]: not to my knowledge 18:16:50 I don't know of a serious team effort in lisp ever, for that matter 18:17:05 but i easly could have missed one, not like i keep close track 18:17:10 <[df]> seems weird 18:17:13 ANSI CL? 18:17:31 stassats: yes 18:17:33 [df]: why? 18:17:52 salex: i mean, standardization process is a team effort 18:17:59 <[df]> well, there are hardcore functional languages among the winners, and then C/C++/Java 18:18:01 lispers are content to sit back and claim that all langauges are either born from or converging on lisp, and claim all victories as their own! 18:18:02 <[df]> with nothing in between 18:18:14 [df]: ocaml one year, iirc 18:18:18 [df]: it does depend if you count Dylan as a Lisp 18:18:19 Xach: heh. 18:18:38 because I believe Dylan has won (and also been awarded the judges' prize) 18:18:47 but there is a definite demographic skew to the entries 18:18:47 <[df]> I find it hard to consider something without sexps a lisp 18:18:48 Luke and Helmut collaborated on an elisp entry for the ants thing 18:18:50 Krystof: true 18:19:00 [df]: ok, that's your privilege 18:19:00 elisp? nice :) 18:19:08 <[df]> but yeah, wikipedia says there were a couple of dylan winners 18:19:10 is it possible to read the description of the challenge without registering a team? 18:19:17 it didn't win, but they did have a very easy path to visualization 18:19:25 Adlai: yes 18:19:30 no doubt. 18:19:31 "we represent our state of the world as an emacs buffer" 18:19:44 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 18:19:49 several years there have been individuals beavering away in CL, iirc 18:20:03 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:20:14 but there's often a lot to do, so benefit to 4-5 who can dedicate a lot of 3 days to it 18:20:24 at least a lot of 1st 24 hours 18:20:37 Jabberwockey [n=jens@p5496403D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:54 <[df]> this is disturbing... 18:21:04 <[df]> the registration page is written in php, with appears to have magic_quotes enabled 18:21:56 and the challenge is to write a better site for icfp? 18:22:06 salex: WHN put in a lightning entry to the ants thing, too 18:22:11 ok, http://paste.lisp.org/display/82565#1 .. shouldn't that always yield :success? 18:22:20 -!- [Blay] [n=blaay@BSN-143-48-198.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:22:29 stassats: no, the challenge is to write the magic_quotes algorithm such that it is comprehensible 18:23:55 the VM pisses me off. 18:25:07 -!- stuart71 [n=user@75-145-221-229-Memphis.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["my brain hurts"] 18:27:46 lnostdal: I think so. nikodemus changed some bits of the ctor optimization 18:28:39 It works correctly in 1.0.22 18:28:44 and 1.0.27.33 18:29:04 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@ASt-Lambert-153-1-17-128.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 18:29:18 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 18:29:50 and in 1.0.29.4 18:30:11 <[df]> another reason it seems weird there haven't been any lisp winners of icfp is that many of the problems seem to involve AI 18:30:22 actually, don't need the :after one ( http://paste.lisp.org/display/82565#2 ) 18:31:01 if you're interested in participating in icfp, team #consalot will probably be attempting the problem in common lisp 18:31:36 I have just read and finished exercises in SICP section 1; what are other recommended CS topics to study in addition to SICP? 18:31:41 I always had the impression that most of the icfp teams were college teams. 18:32:04 lnostdal: can you mail sbcl-devel? 18:32:11 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 18:32:16 tmh: right, the conjuction of background and time skews there 18:32:21 yeah, Krystof 18:32:30 i suspect there is a bit of serendipity, too 18:32:34 I was thinking of learning POSIX and the Linux Kernel but perhaps I should do this after reading SICP and learning about language theory, algorithms, and data structures? 18:32:55 yeah, posix can wait 'till next week. 18:32:58 ;) 18:33:43 salex: It's just memorization and practical implementation, right? So I should only learn it after. 18:34:20 [df]: you are supposed to just handwave that away, conclude that the game is rigged for "factorial"-like functional programming assigments best done in Ocaml. :) 18:34:53 I figured for solutions that can be found by distributing the search over a cluster. 18:34:56 minion: tell rouslan about PAIP 18:34:57 rouslan: look at PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 18:35:05 <[df]> hypno: that would be easier if people hadn't won it using java and c++ :p 18:35:48 [df] think about this way: what does the win statistics of that game actually tell you, and not tell you 18:36:06 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:36 <[df]> that depends on the nature of the challenge 18:36:41 segyr [n=segyr@199.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 18:36:44 <[df]> which is why I'm going to have a crack at it, in the hope of finding out 18:36:55 benny99 [n=benny@p5486D647.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:05 stassats: So you recommend that I study that following SICP? 18:38:02 fer example you have, what, 10 years to go on? do you think that a language not having shown up with a winning team is evidence that is poor for the purposes of the contest? 18:38:30 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:38:45 rouslan: i'm not sure about the order, but it's a good book 18:38:45 also, how much does language choice factor in? 18:39:07 salex: My guess is very little 18:39:29 The very nature of the contest selects against long-term maintainability of the code. 18:39:52 <[df]> I don't think it's evidence of that at all 18:40:01 Perhaps it shows that to win the contest you're better off focusing on the problem and using a language that you know and that the majority of people participating in the contest know other languages better than CL. 18:40:08 <[df]> I was just expressing surprise that no-one has won using a lisp dialect (except arguably dylan) 18:40:31 there is at least tension between those two statments I thinik 18:40:42 [df]: People that use lisp have no time for trivial contests, we're saving the world. 18:40:49 <[df]> :D 18:40:55 anyway, it doesn't matter. i was just curious why you found it surprising 18:40:58 *Fade* laughs 18:41:21 i don't really find it surprising, although i wouldn't be surprised by a lisp winner, either 18:41:32 Seriously, though, just throw the entire thing on a cluster with a genetic programming or other machine-learning system, send in your best result for the lightning round, send in your best result for the main round... 18:42:26 <[df]> I guess I feel that people who are into programming for the mental challenge rather than achieving anything tend to gravitate towards lisp 18:42:34 <[df]> but maybe they gravitate towards haskell and ocaml just as much 18:42:57 whenever i feel myself achieving something, i stop for a few days 18:43:26 iirc an ocaml team won with some (one) of the ocaml devels on it; which perhaps says something about motivations 18:43:30 *stassats* likes project Euler for mental challenges 18:43:40 iow, perhaps they really wanted to prove a point enough to put the itme in 18:43:47 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:43:53 + knew the language inside & out, which can't hurt 18:44:13 (that was by no means a bash at ocaml, btw) 18:44:29 Actually, all of these things are fun, but I have to code lisp to (1) pay the bills and (2) complete my PhD, so there is little time left for coding for fun. Although 1 and 2 are fun. 18:44:38 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0A6B.versanet.de] has quit [Success] 18:44:50 get back to work, slacker 18:45:11 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 18:45:13 if (2) is fun ur doin it rong 18:45:20 <[df]> I wish I could pay my bills by coding lisp :( 18:45:36 tmh: I'm a grad student, I code PHP to pay the bills, and do work for my MCS....I still find time to code for fun :) 18:45:38 Krystof: or his advisor is 18:45:57 tmh: The key is that you can't have a life, at all...never have a life, once you give up that you'll find more time. 18:46:14 benny [n=benny@i577A2435.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:18 dlowe: depends how far in tmh is, too 18:46:23 TDT: That's the problem, I have a wife and kids. :-P 18:46:27 and how many dependents he has 18:46:29 well quite 18:46:50 mjf [n=mjf@r11gz66.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 18:47:23 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:37 I funded the wife through school, now she is returning the favor, but I have 2 paying contracts right now. That's why the PhD is taking forever. Anyway, that and #lisp. 18:47:40 *Xach* is waiting for the kids to get old enough to subcontract 18:47:49 TDT: ah, the joys of the care-free single masters student.... 18:47:53 tmh: ah, yeah that's tough 18:48:26 tmh: you could always start hacking sbcl. Ask Krystof how the helped speed things along 18:49:00 <[df]> speed what along? divorce? 18:49:08 I submitted in 3 years and 10 days, I'll have you know 18:49:13 salex: No thanks, I have enough delusions of grandeur at the moment, I don't need to add SBCL internals guru to the mix. 18:49:51 Krystof: hey, that's pretty good! Mine took 4 (but probably had more coursework) 18:50:11 *tmh* celebrated 11 years last week. The celebration mainly revolved around cleaning the house. Who says the magic is gone? 18:50:13 yeah, I had no courses. (Though I did have to teach myself General Relativity) 18:50:22 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-15-70.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:24 i just remember you talking about procrastinating with sbcl, is all 18:50:54 i had a solid year of courses before comps, so we're probably roughly even on that score 18:51:05 I've never worked on the PhD full time, it's always been night classes, so it is taking forever, but I'm getting there. 18:51:46 I certainly procrastinated. (Actually sbcl was my second procrastination; I also spent a large amount of time running a vocal ensemble) 18:52:02 different countries have different PhD styles 18:52:04 tmh: surely classes is a smallish percentage of the total though, no? what are you studying? 18:52:11 Krystof: yes, suprisingly different 18:52:23 but I think ph.d students mostly procrastinate everywhere 18:52:40 salex: aerospace engineering. 18:52:47 i'm sure i could have cut 6 months minimum off mine if i'd been very organized 18:53:28 tmh: lots of coursework then? what do the dissertation or publication requirements look like? 18:53:32 salex: The courses are complete, now I'm just trying to nail down the dissertation topic. 18:53:33 just ooc 18:53:34 my advantage was being an outsider (physicist among mathematicians) 18:53:49 basically anything I did was an advance of the state of the art 18:54:26 yeah, i'm finding that advantageous now, is some collaborations 18:54:55 salex: I initially picked a topic that required more math than I know or am in a position time-wise to learn, so I've recently refocused and have been making better progress. 18:55:14 tmh: math is good ;) 18:55:33 sounds like you're having a bit of a slog though. glad to hear it's progressing 18:55:34 salex: Yes, but at some point getting done is better. 18:55:53 the best dissertation is the one that is finished. 18:56:03 *tmh* has his wife to motivate him. "When are you defending?" "Soon, dear" 18:56:35 you probably have less trouble with the abd quicksand than most, so that's good 18:57:54 I've also come to the realization that I can also flip the topic if it doesn't work. "A nonlinear constitutive material model is [not] necessary for this problem." 18:59:06 -!- KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-1-167.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:59:09 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-174-27.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:29 Krystof: not precisely that advantage, I mean, but the advantage of working slightly out of field 18:59:37 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 19:00:13 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:03:22 tmh: ooc, and perhaps this is best asked after you're actually done, but are you as a couple happy with the decision to piggyback degrees? Did you have but reject other options? 19:05:09 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:07 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 19:06:19 salex: We're happy with it because that was the way we decided to prioritize our life. It did require sacrificing other things. I've turned down jobs, she didn't look as widely at schools, the school I'm doing my PhD at was chosen because that's where we lived. 19:06:42 yeah, those are the sort of tradeoff i envisioned 19:07:03 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:07:06 i've known a fair few couples in similar situation, and there doesn't seem to be a perfect way to handle it 19:07:09 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:07:14 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 19:08:11 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.122.209] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:09:20 salex: Nope, the sooner you realize that the better. 19:10:04 a lot of people I've known have struggled with (or are struggling with) the 2-body problem in (particularly) academic hiring, too 19:10:46 antifuchs: Are you still there? 19:12:23 salex: It's not easy. 19:12:37 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-22-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:12:42 looks like in 2005 a group won icfp using PLT scheme. 19:13:18 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:14:03 ah, I guess they were just called the "PLT group" 19:14:30 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-180.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:15:21 wikipedia page matches my rough memory of heavy representation by haskell and ocaml 19:17:06 harleqin_ [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-188-73.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:17:12 I wish I had time to learn smalltalk, haskell and ocaml. 19:17:30 you do ... after you defend. 19:17:34 :) 19:17:53 leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 Perhaps, but my main goal after defense is start flying again and complete my instrument rating. 19:18:23 -!- harleqin [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-156-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:18:34 -!- benny99 [n=benny@p5486D647.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [No route to host] 19:18:39 not a bad idea in your line of work 19:19:04 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:19:05 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:19:11 if you can keep enough time for ti 19:19:27 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-71-185.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:20:16 -!- tombom [i=tombom@82.12.17.135] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 19:21:10 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has left #lisp 19:21:10 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:22:05 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:26 -!- elliotstern_ [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:22:49 <_3b> yay, vm runs, wonder if it is doing the right stuff :) 19:23:23 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-18-202.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:23:41 _3b: I think I'll just play a 2d video game this weekend :\ 19:24:38 <_3b> heh, dunno how far i will get before i get bored with it 19:24:40 pkhuong: like nethack! 19:24:46 <_3b> what didn't you like about the vm? 19:25:12 It's 2009: have you ascended yet? 19:26:33 _3b: VM = gratuitous stumbling block before interesting things. 19:26:55 <_3b> pkhuong: true, at least it isn't like last year though 19:27:09 is it possible to have 2d arrays displayed as 2d in inspector? 19:27:21 <[df]> the vm makes me instinctively reach for C 19:27:45 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:47 <_3b> why C? then you wouldn't ave LDB :) 19:27:49 [df]: funny. I instinctively wrote a compiler. 19:27:58 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:28:00 Swordsman [n=kohii@pool-71-112-23-110.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:09 <[df]> possibly because I don't know enough cl :D 19:28:22 <[df]> is there inbuilt support for ISO doubles for example? 19:28:23 *_3b* just interprets it dumbly, dunno if it will need optimization or not 19:29:23 <_3b> ~1500 simulation steps/sec currently 19:29:23 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 19:29:46 clhs double-float 19:29:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_short_.htm 19:29:48 benbelly [n=bholm1@cpe-74-67-149-169.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:00 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-129-32.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:30:02 <_3b> ieee-floats is also useful 19:30:19 though, it's not required to exist, and it's not required to be ISO 19:30:23 Hey guys, I would like to use only certain functions out of an external package in an internal package and export these - how can I do that? 19:30:51 clhs defpackage 19:30:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm 19:31:09 Joreji: i use (:shadowing-import-from :external ) and (:export ) in my defpackage. 19:31:14 <[df]> well what I don't know (in cl) is how to drag 64 bits from a binary file and treat them as a double 19:31:18 see :import-from 19:31:24 <_3b> minion: ieee-floats 19:31:24 ieee-floats: IEEE-Floats provides a way of converting values of type float and double-float to and from their binary representation as defined by IEEE 754 (which is commonly used by processors and network protocols). http://www.cliki.net/ieee-floats 19:31:32 <_3b> [df]: use that ^ 19:31:34 stassats,Xach: cool, thanks! 19:31:42 antoszka [n=antoszka@2001:6a0:14a:0:0:0:0:dada] has joined #lisp 19:31:44 <[df]> thanks 19:31:49 bah, sb-sys:sap-ref-double. 19:31:55 <_3b> or that :) 19:32:24 I'm inclined to say that 1.0.29.6 misses unused variables warnings that 1.0.28.43 didn't. 19:32:49 Also, some undefined variable warnings too. 19:32:49 deepfire: they're only signalled once 19:33:16 tcr, I'm talking about summary at the end of the WITH-COMPILATION-UNIT. 19:33:17 -!- segyr [n=segyr@199.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has quit [] 19:33:35 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcr058.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:52 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.125.242] has joined #lisp 19:33:55 deepfire: for example? 19:33:59 *deepfire* turned on the warning nazi mode recently, so watching them closely 19:34:27 stassats, no examples, unfortunately. 19:34:33 <[df]> I take it there's not a helpful test suite to prove your vm is correct? 19:35:09 [df]: there's an ansi-compliance test suite somewhere. 19:35:28 deepfire: Could be that you're right. Look at the last function in src/compiler/ir1report.lisp, it's where the meat is. Along some *-compile-file in compiler/main.lisp 19:35:31 i think [df] meant icfp vm 19:35:33 *tcr* afk 19:36:01 lnostdal: i have fix, and will commit in soon 19:36:02 <[df]> stassats: yeah 19:36:16 thanks to kpreid for pointing out that we *have* to write game playing programs. We can't just generate solutions by hand. 19:36:41 nicktastic, ok 19:37:04 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:46 nikodemus pasted "hotpatch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82577 19:38:07 <_3b> [df]: printing out what it does makes it fairly obvious if it is working 19:38:36 <_3b> like it has inpute 2,3,#x3e80, if it reads those each step that is a good sign :) 19:38:58 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:40:05 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:10 rpg: I'm here 19:42:26 rpg: didn't have any luck finding any references to the ilc on the sigplan site 19:42:27 oooh 19:42:30 this icfp thing looks fun 19:42:32 who's doing it? 19:42:59 *[df]* is, but strictly casually 19:43:07 antifuchs: thanks. I didn't, either. 19:43:14 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:43:16 booo 19:43:21 <[df]> (and I may well give up and go to the pub shortly) 19:43:22 maybe on the acm portal? 19:43:28 *_3b* is debugging VM currently 19:43:34 <[df]> but if so I will make a more earnest attempt tomorrow 19:44:02 antifuchs: I don't really know how the ACM portal works; I always used the consolidated CS bibliographies as my tool. 19:44:29 You have to write game-playing programs? 19:44:37 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:44:51 Do they change the inputs for the real test or something? 19:44:52 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 19:45:03 rpg: yeah, the interface is something made in hell 19:45:13 just failed there, too 19:45:20 so... dunno, sorry 19:45:31 *sykopomp* doesn't understand any of this VM stuff. 19:45:58 antifuchs: that's ok. I will root around my paper copy. Unfortunately, I have temporarily mislaid it, or loaned it to a coworker... 19:46:34 these are problems from the last century! how come we still have to burden ourselves with these things? 19:46:37 antifuchs: Hi you, how's the soup? 19:46:52 hey there Jabberwockey (: 19:47:06 it's boiling along nicely. have left the project to work on lispier things, though (: 19:47:23 VM is easy, but the actual challenge is too hard for me 19:47:44 antifuchs: Still in London? 19:47:57 nope, moved back to vienna in january (: 19:47:57 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-162-85.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:48:13 (living is terrifyingly expensive) (: 19:48:37 ... tell me that. I'm soon going to spend most of my money on travel to new workplace ... 19:49:06 tamei [n=tamei@183.Red-88-21-85.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:19 -!- tamei [n=tamei@183.Red-88-21-85.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:49:22 antifuchs: I wish the proceedings were available on line. I may try to set up a page that would link to the authors' copies. 19:49:24 after using (break) inside a function, in sldb, 'v' will bring up a new buffer *SLIME source form* 19:49:26 thanks, anyway.... 19:49:50 I have removed the break line, how to make 'v' flash just the questionable form? 19:49:58 is a vm that simple to implement? :` 19:49:59 \ 19:50:04 -!- Foofie is now known as fufie 19:50:10 it's been like 2 hours since the contest started :-o 19:50:12 -!- rpg [n=rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [] 19:50:16 sykopomp: that vm is really simple 19:50:29 <[df]> it's straightforward 19:51:55 lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 19:52:09 -!- vy [n=user@88.227.110.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:52:15 pkhuong: heh, alright. I've never done anything like this, so it looks way complicated... 19:53:00 As a VM, it's simple as heck. 19:53:30 Same with ICFP2006. Easy VM. 19:54:10 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.1.177.55] has joined #lisp 19:54:20 <_3b> (loop for i of-type (unsigned-byte 14) below (expt 2 14)) <- am i missing something broken there? 19:54:52 _3b: Doing something with i ? 19:54:52 <_3b> sbcl 1.0.29.40 objects to it 19:55:04 ... Program control flow? 19:55:08 <_3b> The value 16384 is not of type (UNSIGNED-BYTE 14). 19:55:29 Yeah, plus the post-incremented value that fails the end test needs to be a member of the type. 19:56:02 _3b: no need for the declaration, though. 19:57:11 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:57:34 <_3b> the declaration is declaimed on the var, i'll just add an untyped temp if the warning/error is valid 19:57:49 _3b: why do you need that declaration? 19:58:43 nyef: I was going play video games for a while to seed a heuristic search... but the rules disqualify that sort of solution ;) 19:59:01 <[df]> 'The order of the instruction and data values varies, depending on the frame address.' 19:59:07 <_3b> probably don't need it actually, but actually thinking about it was too much work 19:59:07 <[df]> is that purely to be annoying? 19:59:14 <_3b> (the var is a special used from multiple functions) 19:59:46 <_3b> [df]: yeah, it is :/ 19:59:54 <_3b> (annoying that is, no idea what the intent is) 19:59:59 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 20:00:02 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:00:32 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 20:00:55 Alignment is always nice ;) 20:01:35 -!- cinayakoshka [n=bar@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:06:14 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-180.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 20:06:27 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@24.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:08:18 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-166.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:09:03 is there a public posting of the problem? (icfp) 20:10:20 -!- TDT [i=dthole@dhcp80ff869b.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has left #lisp 20:10:27 <[df]> http://icfpcontest.org/6bacfbdadfce77fbaa1e147bfe00e07d.pdf is public I think? 20:10:39 yeah, just found it. thanks.:) 20:12:33 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-166.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:12:54 The broken link for the spec in the obvious place when you're actually reading the body of the page is a nice touch. 20:15:13 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@p5496403D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:15:18 so i remember a while ago there was some talke about sbcl moving to git 20:15:23 of some other scm 20:15:30 nothign came of that? 20:16:22 Not yet, beyond the git mirror. 20:19:01 i've just discovered this script called TopGit. it's incredible. i can have these topic branches that i can keep a big complicated history of, and it will export them 1-commit-per-brach against the upstream 20:19:44 it's like quilt or stgit but without being terrible 20:22:31 smoofra: cherry pick and rebase -i have been more than good enough for me so far (: 20:23:51 pkhuong: i just hate having to delete my history 20:24:10 smoofra: that's why you cherry-pick into a foo-cvs branch ;) 20:24:16 or having 20 diffirnet tags called some-top-branch-old-version-3 20:24:39 a foo-cvs branch? 20:24:45 pipping_ [n=user@unaffiliated/pipping] has joined #lisp 20:24:59 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-144-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 20:25:24 branch off master, cherry pick your modifications in, rewrite some history, and then export. 20:27:01 rewriting history... with the git-brother command. 20:27:01 elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:30:34 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-18-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:32:07 git is like the poster child for crazy user command interfaces. :) 20:32:25 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:32:44 -!- zimbu [n=user@pool-71-248-48-170.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 20:32:47 -!- elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 20:33:56 demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d871e5f.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 20:34:02 -!- phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 20:34:34 bonnet [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279550985.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:34:53 -!- bonnet [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279550985.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:35:59 I made a crude Magic 8-Ball last night. -> http://paste.lisp.org/+1ROJ#1 I've been using it all day. I think I'm ready for the executive office. 20:37:54 heh 20:38:02 I cooked one of those into my irc bot. :) 20:38:10 Do you really need the "then (random 20)" on the second for clause? 20:38:27 Fade: I was wanting to do the same thing. 20:39:18 in python it was trivial, because you just take the index of the results list as returnd by random(lenght(lst)) 20:39:22 Also, isn't that generally more wasteful than simply indexing the list of responses by (random N), for N equal to the length of the list of responses? 20:39:35 natch 20:39:50 nyef: Off the top of my head, I don't really need the loop, but I wanted to scramble it a bit. 20:40:17 Fade: how is that different from (elt list (random (length list)))? 20:40:25 cinayakoshka [n=bar@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 20:40:41 Fade: tmh's version is obfuscated :P 20:41:22 Fade: I could have done the same, but I wanted it to create a vector of indices, scramble the indices, then pick a random indice from the scramble. 20:42:02 You know, like shaking it _really_ good. :-) 20:42:03 nikodemus: Your code for setting the sbcl source path didn't quite work. I used the code from cliki now. http://www.cliki.net/SLIME%20Features 20:42:04 it's not 20:42:08 different that is. 20:42:28 it's just the method I chose in my implementation. 20:42:47 Fade: same thing. 20:43:36 minion: memo for nyef: when I clicked on a extra-short lisppaste url with an annotation index the redirect made my browser drop the fragment. a quick search suggest this is messy/underspecified; I think you should make the extrashort urls less prominent (particularly in the annotation case) or see if a different redirect code (301?) works better 20:43:36 Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 20:43:56 Really? 20:43:57 nyef, memo from kpreid: when I clicked on a extra-short lisppaste url with an annotation index the redirect made my browser drop the fragment. a quick search suggest this is messy/underspecified; I think you should make the extrashort urls less prominent (particularly in the annotation case) or see if a different redirect code (301?) works better 20:43:58 Hrm. 20:44:07 I think that's more chandler's baby. 20:44:26 oh, I thought chandler was out of the lisppaste business 20:44:42 Well, I didn't put the short URLs in. 20:45:00 My understanding was that chandler was tending to be too busy to do lisppaste maintainance. 20:45:32 So I did a chunk, then got too busy myself. 20:45:59 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:46:01 I might be getting some free time soon, but I'm not sure how much (if any) I'll be spending on lisppaste. 20:46:37 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-122.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:47:30 Ah, I struggling with yet another fence post error. Maybe I should take a break. 20:47:54 I'm playing angband. On dungeon level 1 of my first trip down on this character I run into Fang, Farmer Maggot's Dog and a black naga. WTF? 20:48:49 the great magnet is against you. 20:50:23 Back to shaking the Magic 8-Ball. Part of the motivation for the loop was that the random function is only "approximately uniform" and the affirmative, non-committal and negative advice is grouped in the vector. What exactly is "approximately uniform"? 20:51:11 artagnon [n=artagnon@unaffiliated/artagnon] has joined #lisp 20:51:41 What is wrong with this snippet of code: http://pastie.org/525901 -- It fails at the return-from form 20:51:44 I guess the answer is "implementation dependent". 20:52:11 nyef, you mean you're not using langband? 20:52:49 artagnon: Nothing immediately obvious, other than the choice of paste service (no syntax highlight, no mouseover-paren-balance, etc.). 20:53:20 nyef: Which one do I use? 20:53:21 Hrm... And the use of setq instead of setf... 20:53:27 minion: lisppaste? 20:53:29 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 20:53:42 artagnon: put response-status and response-body in a let form, get rid of setq and get rid of the backquote and commas, use (cons ... ) 20:53:42 use setf instead of setq 20:53:47 nyef: ok 20:54:00 ejs [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:01 it is better style 20:54:14 artagnon: Rather, LET* 20:54:20 Hang on, where are response-status and response-body coming from? It looks like they're... yeah, LET*. 20:54:31 There's also the question of what "fails" means. 20:54:38 younder && nyef && tmh: Ok, will use let* instead 20:54:59 nyef: *** Eval error *** No catch for tag: --cl-block-extract-http-info-- 20:55:05 And that backquote looks like a possible call for CONS or LIST*... 20:55:15 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-12-79.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:15 let is preferable to let* unless you WANT side effects 20:55:37 younder: yes, I understand. Thank you for your suggestions. 20:56:09 ... This is some pseudo-common-lisp in some other host environment, isn't it? 20:56:30 nyef: No. It's a different dialect. Emacs Lisp 20:56:38 ... Oh. 20:56:40 artagnon: Line 6 of your paste, (string-match ... ) adds nothing to the function. Maybe you want to do something with the return value? 20:56:55 In that case, the entire discussion would be more on-topic for #emacs. 20:57:06 tmh: Line 7 depends on line 6 20:57:38 nyef: yes, I'm asking on #emacs too. I got some valuable style-feedback here. 20:57:39 artagnon: It won't in common lisp, I don't even think it will in elisp. 20:57:58 tmh: ok, I'll check that. 20:58:58 artagnon: It won't, I just looked it up in the Elisp manual. 21:00:17 tmh: ah, alright. I'll catch the return value of string-match then 21:01:21 Wait, wait... Why the RETURN-FROM anyway, if it's the last form in the function? 21:01:39 That's what you do in C. 21:02:26 nyef && tmh: Ok, I removed that also now. I'll post the fresh version with corrections in just a sec 21:02:50 -!- demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d871e5f.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 21:02:58 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 21:03:08 I have prepared a svelte 8 MB binary release of my little mp3 player for Linux/x86, in case anyone is interested in playing with something built with SBCL 21:03:56 artagnon pasted "extract-http-info corrected" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82579 21:04:14 Nice bot :) 21:04:24 How does it look now? 21:05:13 Like elisp 21:05:33 :) 21:05:39 *artagnon* is happy it doesn't look like C anymore 21:05:59 p0a [n=emacs@athedsl-371934.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:06:33 Hello, which implementation is most preferred for Grey streams? 21:06:42 Anyway, thank you for your feedback. I will remember to use let and let* forms where possible (avoiding setq forms) and avoid return-from forms unless absolutely necessary 21:06:52 and where should I look if I want to make my own? (presumably the source code of some other library...) 21:06:57 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:07:02 ouch, minor error 21:07:10 setq response-body 21:07:22 tmh annotated #82579 "No More Elisp artagnon" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82579#1 21:07:47 That's my last contribution. 21:07:56 no, it's your first 21:08:06 tmh: excellent, thank you! 21:08:13 looks much cleaner without the nestings 21:08:43 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:09:19 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-15-70.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:10:19 artagnon: that paste runs (string-match "\r?\n\r?\n" response-dump) twice. You can capture this value in a previous binding in the LET* form and use that instead 21:10:40 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.125.242] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:10:46 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0ACC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:47 In fact, it'd be anti-lisp to do otherwise 21:11:27 p0a: Got it 21:11:31 Thanks for the additional tip 21:14:03 -!- benbelly [n=bholm1@cpe-74-67-149-169.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:15:17 artagnon annotated #82579 "The best version of extract-http-info yet" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82579#2 21:17:11 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:20 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:18:03 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:36 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:20:15 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:20:16 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:31 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:28 I'm reading up on PEGs, Parsing expression grammar, the seem interesting. Anyone use em? 21:22:36 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:25:25 um, artagnon, that last paste contains a typo "market" instead of "marker" 21:25:36 BrianRice [n=water@c-24-18-248-252.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:42 harleqin_: yeah, np. Corrected. Thanks :) 21:25:44 -!- Ringo48 [n=Ringo48@97-122-180-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:26:19 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:27:21 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 21:28:34 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:29:49 -!- jao [n=jao@94.Red-88-6-161.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:31:29 I'm just reading that icfp contest specification. That VM sure is a bit strange. 21:31:49 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:32:04 harleqin_: you don't need to code anything on the VM. 21:33:35 Yeah, I know, you just have to implement it. But still... ;) 21:34:04 merimus [n=merimus@c-67-171-83-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:14 -!- artagnon [n=artagnon@unaffiliated/artagnon] has left #lisp 21:34:17 -How- many FP registers? 21:34:48 How can IEEE 764 floats from a binary file? 21:34:52 can I read 21:34:54 nyef: 16384 (: 21:35:05 pkhuong: Yeah, I know. Can you imagine that in hardware? 21:35:12 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.1.177.55] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:35:24 <_3b> don't forget the 16384 each double float input and output registers :) 21:35:34 jewel: fread(), of course! 21:36:07 nyef: fread is C (among others) 21:36:10 nyef: but first, what's IEEE 764? 21:36:15 Heh. 21:36:22 <_3b> 754, typo in first version of spec 21:36:37 p0a: I know. I'm poking fun. 21:37:45 jewel: most likely you'll have to read them with ldb and then parse the format 21:38:02 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 21:38:12 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-159-120.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 21:38:24 etate|away [n=etate@bb-87-81-97-91.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:38:34 <_3b> so does anyone here have a working VM for the icfp thing? 21:38:55 *hefner* swore someone summoned up the link to the ieee-floats package just minutes ago 21:39:02 szerglin1 [n=tyc20@125-236-176-26.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 21:39:47 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 21:40:13 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcr058.osnanet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:40:26 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:41:09 jewel: try this http://random-state.net/tmp/sb-vector-io.tgz 21:41:47 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:41:52 Is the native double-float representation for SBCL the same as the IEEE 754 format used in the icfp obj files? 21:42:24 yes 21:42:32 or should be 21:42:54 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:42:56 same as the machine. 21:43:29 nikodemus, you didn't tar that up properly? 21:43:34 it contains a symlink? 21:43:49 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:44:00 so then it should be easy to read those values into lisp-land 21:44:01 Is any function similar to cl-ppcre:scan which returns only true or false? 21:44:37 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.39.54] has joined #lisp 21:44:41 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-95-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 21:44:47 nyef: MMIX has at max 128 full precision FP registers in single window... 21:48:05 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-197-144-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:15 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:49:16 oops, sorry 21:49:39 mrSpec: I don't think so. That's an interesting request, what prompts it? 21:49:59 Doesn't cl-ppcre:scan return a generalized boolean already? 21:50:38 jao [n=jao@94.Red-88-6-161.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:38 pinterface1 [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:39 nyef: it return 2 values start and stop where pattern match, or am I wrong? 21:50:48 nikodemus: do you have ansi-test commit rights? 21:50:52 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:52 Okay, and what does it return if there's no match? 21:50:56 jewel: should be ok new 21:50:56 -!- pinterface1 is now known as pinterface 21:51:02 ehu`: nope 21:51:03 nyef: nil ;) 21:51:22 nikodemus: what's your c-l.net account and do you want them? 21:51:29 So, it sounds to me like the primary return value is a generalized boolean indicating the presence or absence of a match. 21:51:29 nsiivola, sure 21:51:30 but when pattern match not fully, I'd like to get nil too. 21:51:32 Problem solved? 21:51:53 nyef: I'll check it ;) 21:51:59 Ahh... So you'd like to know when there's nothing -but- match? 21:52:52 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-66-250.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:53:14 nyef: yeah 21:53:27 Should be an easy helper function to make... 21:53:49 I have to check first value and second, if first is 0 and second length 21:54:18 I can make it, but I never know what is already done ;) 21:54:25 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:54:29 Fair enough. 21:54:34 mokogobo [n=mokogobo@thecoffeehouse.ellipse.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:42 And it's time for me to see about my trip back to the hotel. 21:54:47 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving the office."] 21:54:56 Can't you just use anchors instead? 21:55:21 anchors? 21:55:44 $^. 21:56:32 Hmm how can I use it? Could you give me an example? 21:56:35 mrSpec: use "^" to match beginning of string and "$" to match end of string. This is called anchor 21:56:51 ah ok. Thanks. i'll try it 21:57:01 man perlre 21:57:01 http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/perlre.1.html 21:57:23 salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has joined #lisp 21:57:37 it looks like it is working :D thanks 21:57:45 -!- ausente is now known as lucido 21:58:23 thanks stassats, I will have to read it. 21:59:49 jewel: looking at the icfp spec, you may be better off with http://common-lisp.net/project/ieee-floats/ since the executable format seems to mix floats and ub32 22:00:35 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:47 yeah, I was thinking of interleaving the stream by reading into a vector of ints and one of floats 22:00:57 but it's probably better to use ieee-floats 22:01:04 thanks though 22:01:08 Interesting, I have a function which emits a speed hint while having a (declare (optimize debug safety (speed 0))). 22:01:19 1.0.28.43 22:01:55 It's obscenely complicated, so I'm afraid that'll be an idle complaint.. 22:03:20 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 22:03:22 deepfire: there are some notes that are intentionally emitted always, because they mean _really_ huge hits -- or at least are expected to 22:03:47 but probably could be left out for (speed 0) -- no argument there 22:03:52 -!- mark`` [n=user@74.196.9.26] has left #lisp 22:04:02 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:30 nikodemus, it wasn't there when there was no declarations at all, that's what got me wondering 22:05:04 oh, interesting 22:05:08 (debug 3) inserts additional code. There might be some interaction with your own code that triggers that note. 22:05:13 _deepfire pasted "the optimisation note" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82581 22:05:17 mark`` [n=user@74.196.9.26] has joined #lisp 22:06:12 an now that i actually tried it, i see that i was wrong about "imporant" notes -- they're not emitted for (speed 0) 22:06:28 deepfire: i think i know what that is 22:06:31 just a sec 22:07:04 "cost A" ??? 22:07:25 *print-base*.. 22:07:48 ah 22:07:53 nikodemus pasted "deepfile, does this make the note go away?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82582 22:07:57 but you're right, it's weird 22:08:05 deepfire, even 22:08:07 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:08:08 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@thecoffeehouse.ellipse.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:08:23 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-41-17.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:08:34 wait a second.. 22:08:35 if you're not on head you want to delete the binding for *compiling-optimized-constructor* from there 22:08:43 -!- ejs [n=eugen@111-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:09:16 no, 1.0.28.43 22:09:25 -!- asksol [n=ask@223.218.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:10:03 nikodemus annotated #82582 "legacy version :)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82582#1 22:10:41 -!- mark`` [n=user@74.196.9.26] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15:03 The function SB-PCL::CTOR-CLASS-OR-NAME is undefined, it says.. 22:15:25 oops, in older sbcl's that should be ctor-class 22:15:35 sbcls, even 22:15:40 ok, will patch it up.. 22:16:14 hah, i like the icfp task this year. the data format is nicely arbitrary without being stupidly tricky 22:17:27 it's a shame the data is little-endian, though. they should have put in a byte-order mark :) 22:17:46 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:18:12 _deepfire annotated #82582 "another issue" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82582#2 22:18:37 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:19:40 -!- p0a [n=emacs@athedsl-371934.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 22:20:39 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:20:49 (I replaced ctor-class-or-name with ctor-class) 22:20:59 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:25 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:22:00 This is during load-fasl-group, btw 22:22:18 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:22:35 which is at frame #5 22:23:07 just a sec 22:24:13 nikodemus annotated #82582 "how about this one?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82582#3 22:24:34 no wait, that's not right 22:24:36 sorry 22:24:43 no worries 22:24:47 i'll find an older sbcl... 22:25:05 (I'd use a newer one, but I'm on windows..) 22:29:21 nikodemus annotated #82582 "this!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82582#4 22:29:56 that one make a similar note go away on 1.0.19 at least 22:30:22 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-122.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 22:30:40 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:31:19 -!- jsoft [n=user@118-93-61-228.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:31:58 _deepfire annotated #82582 "the effect on later code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82582#5 22:32:56 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:33:18 this is during compilation of code after that 22:34:09 (btw, interface-ezusb-linux uses lh-usb! :-) 22:38:45 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 22:40:16 1.0d0e5? 1.0e5d0? How can I specify a number in double-float? 22:40:39 1d5 22:40:45 1d5 22:40:50 Oops, thanks. 22:40:52 echo? 22:40:55 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:41:05 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 22:41:18 Ahh thanks. No, just got the wrong REPL. 22:41:31 stassats: ah, it'1 been named %force-cache-flushes since 1.0.19 22:41:51 got it, substituting 22:41:52 *stassats* forwards to deepfire 22:42:02 to0 late 22:43:17 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:43:27 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 22:43:58 *deepfire* rechecking 22:45:36 nikodemus, yes, that change makes the note go away 22:45:42 nikodemus, thanks! 22:46:07 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:46:10 (The last version, with the %-ification) 22:46:40 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:47:01 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 22:47:06 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0ACC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:47:06 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:47:33 qbg [n=quickbas@65-73-93-20.dsl1.mnd.mn.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:31 And, apparently, it breaks fasl compatibility for me :-) 22:49:00 oh, no, false alarm, no broken fasl compa 22:49:05 tibility 22:50:21 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 22:50:55 konr [n=konrad@143.106.73.150] has joined #lisp 22:51:01 -!- merimus [n=merimus@c-67-171-83-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:52:19 -!- pipping_ [n=user@unaffiliated/pipping] has quit ["brb"] 22:54:00 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.39.54] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:54:56 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:55:31 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-69-204-30-167.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:56:07 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.0.136.148] has joined #lisp 22:59:21 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.0.136.148] has quit [Client Quit] 23:09:42 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:09:52 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:09:52 -!- lclark [n=user@cpe-98-148-69-2.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:10:02 lclark [n=user@cpe-98-148-69-2.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:42 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:07 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:12:27 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:12:30 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:12:36 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:16:05 -!- xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has quit ["Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0"] 23:20:29 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:22:47 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 23:23:04 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-150.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 23:25:26 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcr058.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:28:45 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-135.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:29:15 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [] 23:30:18 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-95-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:30:25 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-95-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 23:32:36 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-b86cd6d314979dfa] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:35:28 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:23 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 23:41:10 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483DF8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:41:10 -!- plage` [n=user@58.186.146.183] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:41:19 plage [n=user@58.186.146.183] has joined #lisp 23:41:23 Good morning. 23:42:58 -!- fiveop_ [n=fiveop@pD9E6C8EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 23:43:47 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:43:57 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 23:47:09 -!- qbg [n=quickbas@65-73-93-20.dsl1.mnd.mn.frontiernet.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]"] 23:48:03 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:48:08 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:07 http://lyrical.bugyo.tk/ <---- I'm utterly stupefied at it. "Magical Language LyricalLisp" O_O 23:55:41 apparently, it's a Lisp tutorial (as far as I understand more related to Scheme, but looks like talking about general terms like Cons cells etc.), in form of visual novel... 23:56:20 For all that is holy, this is deadly awesome! 23:56:57 btw, it runs on Scheme-based NScripter implementation 23:58:58 *antoszka* doesn't understand a single character :) 23:59:22   stuck on the first one. 23:59:39 *p_l* used Google Translate, for his japanese skills never reached reading comprehension 23:59:40 Too bad I didn't get much beyond first grade of kanji.. 23:59:43 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 23:59:53 I don't quite understand the concept of a closure.