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[n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:03:56 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:04:35 chris2__ [n=chris@p5B168357.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:06:45 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 01:08:55 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:12:24 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y126.net.upc.cz] has quit ["GNU is *indeed* No UNIX!"] 01:14:48 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:57 Hello all. 01:19:19 -!- chris2_ [n=chris@p5B168791.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:20:29 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 01:22:23 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:30 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:31:23 -!- chessguy 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["Ex-Chat"] 02:08:47 -!- prip [n=_prip@host230-122-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:09:06 prip [n=_prip@host230-122-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 02:10:01 domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has joined #lisp 02:12:51 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:12:57 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 02:17:35 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:18:17 Sikander [n=soemraws@ip98-185-236-17.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:50 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2F5C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 02:27:46 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:28:10 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 02:32:52 mqt [n=tran@c-66-41-46-222.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:29 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-58-124.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 02:37:29 any good literature on writing, basic, script-like parsers, for like simple but large data formats? 02:37:39 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 02:38:00 DeusExPikachu: what do you mean by script-like? 02:38:11 like it doesnt' have to be that formal 02:38:22 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:38:32 so script quality is what is expected 02:38:46 in contrast to like production quality 02:39:35 heh. Abandon this difference, you mentioned "large data formats" 02:40:23 I mean, it has to be fast, cause the data is large 02:40:30 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 02:40:41 so no naive algorithms that make n^2 passes 02:41:19 honestly I'm just looking for good examples, something to get started 02:42:55 DeusExPikachu: I'd go with some simple FSM 02:43:19 hmm, ok 02:43:28 possibly avoiding recursion etc. 02:43:52 (in the input language, I mean) 02:44:23 If you are parsing only data, it gets simpler 02:44:36 its pretty much data formatted weird 02:45:38 define weird 02:46:11 not in a nice table, but more like arbitrary number of matrixes of many sizes 02:47:13 Approaches used strongly depend on the nature of the data involved. 02:48:30 very true 02:49:35 It's even more fun when the format is unknown, of course, 02:50:12 I guess, I'm coming from an area where I'm used to using splits and breaking down strings in python, I figure I learn the common paradigms in common lisp 02:50:43 You might be interested in cl-ppcre if regular expressions apply. 02:50:51 nyef: fun gets better when you have to find how to insert changed data back, which will be then read by app you don't control, and it might even include checksums computed by non-standard algorithms :D 02:51:08 Fun indeed. 02:51:41 so there aren't really any solid resources? cept pcl? 02:52:14 Well, you haven't really given us much in the way of specifics. 02:52:32 DeusExPikachu: I'd say "any good parsing-from-scratch-by-FSM" tutorial might work, then just apply I/O and string functions from CL 02:53:19 nyef: I sometimes tend to use (recreationally) effects of such work with formats. Fortunately, most of the game engines I needed so far is open source, so the format only needed automating :D 02:53:57 are there fsm frameworks or toolkits in CL? 02:54:08 DeusExPikachu: Really, we can't make any concrete recommendations for examples without some knowledge of the data format. For all we know so far, you could be parsing something like RPG code... 02:54:26 nyef: or APL with in-code matrices 02:54:28 p_l: You wouldn't happen to know anything about the data formats used in Tomb Raider, would you? 02:54:37 nyef, I did say they are like matrixes 02:54:47 like literally a mathematical matrix 02:54:53 DeusExPikachu: Yeah, but you didn't say if it was a text or binary format. 02:55:00 nyef: nope, the games I mentioned were rather from another side of Earth :D 02:55:10 ah, its text, and the numbers are in scientific notation 02:56:09 DeusExPikachu: I would think of going with regexes for number parsing, and simple state machine for going through file 02:56:12 i don't know if you used comsol, but its basically grid data from comsol 02:56:13 DeusExPikachu: Any sort of regularity? 3D .obj files, for example, have a limited number of kinds of line, each with a specific leading whitespace-delimited token. 02:58:01 nyef, yeah there are brackets '[', ']', and names like 'pd.data(:,:,1) = [...' 02:58:43 I'd probably try a recursive-descent parser. 02:58:57 hmm I"ll have to look into that, never heard of it 02:59:01 Especially if you have a suitable grammar handy. 02:59:13 DeusExPikachu: which format it is? IGES, M-file, postprocessing one? 02:59:25 p_l, postprocessing 03:02:58 hmm.. can't find necessary data spec 03:03:12 should I paste like a sample? 03:03:16 not here of course 03:03:49 well, you can, but I probably won't be of use now 03:05:46 -!- weiday [n=wei@114.246.72.118] has quit [] 03:06:41 http://paste.lisp.org/display/81442 03:06:55 I truncated a lot of the data cause its big 03:09:10 Hrm. 03:09:50 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.161.37] has joined #lisp 03:10:19 Depending on how flexible my parser would need to be, I'd either start with a set of regexp match tests or a recursive-descent parser and a good token lexer, writing the lexer before the parser of course. 03:10:56 It really depends on the variability of the data. 03:11:04 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-134-113.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:45 a non-gluttony regex could work as simple lexer, IMHO 03:12:02 Probably could. 03:12:49 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:13:01 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:07 I can envision doing the regexp stuff, but the rec-des parser and so on, especially in CL, I would need to study 03:15:27 DeusExPikachu: I did once a regex as lexer/parser (for small parts, i.e. single "instructions") and used a FSM-like approach for "semantic" part of it 03:15:28 somehow I thought there'd be a way to use the 'READ' in REPL, to do some of the work 03:16:02 <_3b> if you trust the data you can use READ for some of it 03:16:12 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.125.103] has joined #lisp 03:16:13 DeusExPikachu: This way lies madness, I guess (reader macros?) 03:17:21 Pavitra [n=benjamin@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:53 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:22 I guess thats another can of worms 03:21:37 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:22:42 df12 [n=dan@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:25:22 I've got a little problem. Trying to get going with asdf-install and when I do (asdf-install:install 'cliki) it turns out that the diff package doesn't exist anymore (link is broken on cliki) -- anything I can do to salvage cliki install? 03:27:33 jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:52 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:32:47 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-58-124.ucr.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:32:49 is there a way to fmakunbound :before, etc. methods? 03:32:57 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-72-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:33:40 df12: I'd avoid asdf-install, at least unless someone makes a new tool of similar type 03:33:50 minion: tell df12 about clbuild 03:33:51 df12: please look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 03:34:03 ah, ok 03:34:34 <_3b> doesn't look like clbuild knows about that lib though 03:34:40 Does that pretty much supercede all of asdf or just the asdf-install bit? 03:34:47 <_3b> just the -install 03:34:55 ok 03:34:58 df12: asdf-install seems to be a problem for most people 03:35:14 and adding projects to asdf-install (if they have public repos) is very easy 03:37:47 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.125.103] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:37:57 HiLander [i=MacLeod@216-164-157-76.c3-0.eas-ubr5.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:25 -!- HiLander [i=MacLeod@216-164-157-76.c3-0.eas-ubr5.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 03:41:51 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:12 ramus`: If you have SLIME, open the generic function in the inspector. There's some interface in there to easily delete methods. 03:43:53 pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:43 thanks, inserting 'method :before' into slime's undefine-function worked too 03:47:15 -!- parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:49:02 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 03:49:02 has anyone used apache + mod_lisp + whatever? 03:49:20 -!- JohnnyL [n=chatzill@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 03:49:50 jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:50:01 billstclair-sitt [n=billstcl@dsl-74-209-18-104.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:45 -!- billstclair-sitt is now known as billstclair 03:54:36 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-119-150.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:39 greetings 03:55:26 hello 03:59:15 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@207-237-217-78.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:36 hey illuminati1113 :-) 04:05:36 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.125.103] has joined #lisp 04:05:50 fusss: did you launch the other day? 04:06:14 yes, but still behind a "coming soon" wall. the beta users are reporting nasty things. 04:06:24 Yikes. 04:06:34 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Success] 04:06:38 Fixable things? 04:07:12 yes, seems like a completion problem (finish-output *http-stream*) type stuff 04:07:21 specially under heavyish load 04:07:46 i was stupid enough to be operating on the running server 04:08:10 i might have evaluated the wrong (make-site) form, which probably wasn't using the faster taskmaster 04:08:29 Deleloping on the running server? 04:08:37 right now rethinking everything, doing core-based updates. the dev laptop identical to the deployment boxes 04:08:44 yes, sad isn't it? :-/ 04:08:55 I would have done the same thing. :) 04:09:08 but other things are at hand; bad CSS on IE8 and Camino 04:09:23 over flickering SVG/canvas rendering 04:09:34 jquery transition animations being too fast 04:09:43 minimized divs disappearing completely 04:09:48 web development hell 04:10:10 Yikes. 04:10:46 This was a first though. 04:11:03 yeah, i rushed out to meet the June 1st deadline. met it 2 days later ;-) 04:12:01 bobf_ [n=bob@host81-151-98-151.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:46 At least you launched. 04:12:56 I hope to be in your situation someday. ;) 04:15:15 there are tons of things to do my friend. feel free to ask me in private about software projects i worked on and/or wanted to work on. 04:15:28 That's not what I mean. 04:15:54 It's about finishing projects, not thinking them up. 04:16:03 fortunately I won't have to meet "launch date" in next job, only "feature deadlines". That said "features" would be often complete programs is another thing 04:16:24 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 04:16:39 *p_l* looks over job description and realises there will be "launch date" after all. ;_; 04:17:05 illuminati1113: oh. write a demo and show it to someone who is sure to annoy you to finish it. annoying people are my motivator :-P 04:17:19 p_l: space shuttle? 04:17:33 fusss: I wish. Student real estate data 04:17:54 p_l: most students occupy 2'x2' standing up. 04:18:15 fusss: that I know. MIT even has example microcubicle 04:18:26 octrees ftw! 04:18:30 This will be working on accommodation portal 04:19:05 so no real GIS, but facebook API, web crawling, main site, etc 04:19:08 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:19:11 portal, ahhhhhhh 04:19:40 not really portal, more like "website to use in your accomodation search" 04:20:04 do it in the quickest, cut and paste fashion. django, rails, cakephp, etc. don't do portals for the love, they don't love you back. 04:20:23 fusss: the web part will be rails/merb 04:20:29 p_l: Like: this is how to find an apartment? 04:20:37 I'll try to talk them into moving to PostgreSQL 04:20:39 illuminati1113: yes 04:20:59 fun. 04:21:07 illuminati1113: If I get it 04:21:35 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit ["leaving"] 04:21:45 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 04:21:50 the first thing I'm gonna do is probably get rid of ActiveRecord :D 04:22:00 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22:51 Object dbs :P 04:23:11 illuminati1113: not worth it. DataMapper + Postgres, otoh... 04:23:19 Unless you have a reall good reason. 04:23:20 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:37 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 04:25:17 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Client Quit] 04:25:46 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 04:25:47 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:26:57 Good morning. 04:27:06 heyyy beach :-) 04:27:55 p_l: how lispy is ruby? 04:28:10 fusss: little but definitely more than PHP 04:28:35 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:28:46 i think i have seen their # and thought it might CLOSish a bit 04:29:00 So while it doesn't compare to writing everything in Lisp/Haskell/Erlang, it's not that bad 04:29:11 it's IMHO not CLOSish 04:29:18 lawl [n=lawl@CPE002129c55869-CM001ceaccd40a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:29:31 how do u guys read lisp its so messy 04:29:37 the OOP model was afaik based on Smalltalk, some other stuff based on Lisp, a lot based on Perl 04:29:50 -!- lawl changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CFFI 0.10.4, SBCL 1.0.29.1, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.14, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. hey whats up 04:30:02 lawl: Compared to Perl? 04:30:02 -!- lawl changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CFFI 0.10.4, SBCL 1.0.29.1, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.14, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. www.internetshouldbeillegal.com 04:30:32 no compared to whitespace 04:30:35 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:30:56 lawl: it's not hard once you get it. 04:31:05 -!- fusss changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CFFI 0.10.4, SBCL 1.0.29.1, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.14, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 04:31:09 are u referin to sex 04:31:28 No, I'm refering to sexp. 04:31:37 :P 04:31:42 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["later"] 04:31:42 i dont get it 04:31:46 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit ["Why am I still awake?"] 04:31:53 lawl: you wouldn't 04:31:59 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-72-238.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 04:32:02 wooosh! lawl is stupid even when he is anonymous :-P 04:32:16 s-expression = () 04:32:26 Or is that too obvious? 04:32:27 that looks like a vagina 04:32:39 http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/color-box.png <--- good example of reading lisp :D 04:33:04 ?DCC SEND "ff???f?" 0 0 0 04:33:04 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:33:04 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:33:04 -!- V-ille2 [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe43fb00-66.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:33:04 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:33:05 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:33:25 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:26 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:27 etc 04:33:28 -!- lawl [n=lawl@CPE002129c55869-CM001ceaccd40a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 04:33:30 V-ille2 [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe43fb00-66.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:33:37 ignas [n=ignas@79.132.160.221] has joined #lisp 04:33:48 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:33:49 p_l: what are you using that does that coloring? 04:33:51 illuminati1113: this ~= sexps http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/scm-syntax.text 04:33:52 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 04:34:15 cp2: that's not mine, look in http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/ that's from redshank's author 04:34:18 cp2: that's michael webber's project 04:34:23 yeah 04:34:24 i see it 04:34:27 mwe-color-box.el 04:34:46 <_3b> someone send new router firmware to the people that just got dropped :p 04:35:07 fusss: I'm sorry? 04:35:13 *p_l* put /ignore on leaves/quits/disconnects by default 04:35:28 illuminati1113: s-exp BNF, more or less 04:35:42 p_l: fusss: thanks for informing me, this is pretty cool 04:35:53 Buganini [n=buganini@220.135.231.23] has joined #lisp 04:36:08 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@220.135.231.23] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:36:08 np 04:36:19 Oh, right. 04:39:31 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 04:40:14 what's the correct way to update sbcl with clbuild? another compile-implementation? 04:40:47 ramus`: sbcl update is too important to be left to a script ;-) 04:40:50 ramus`: yes, but you need to force it to use sbcl from outside clbuild 04:40:52 read the changelog, etc. 04:41:23 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:41:45 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-148-10-154.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:44:11 -!- Vutral [n=vutral@nathan.66h.42h.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:45:56 w4g3n3r [n=brian@99.144.114.238] has joined #lisp 04:46:13 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E464B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:22 Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@207-237-217-78.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:48:44 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-22-141.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:09 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@207-237-217-78.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:51:54 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 04:54:44 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.72.39] has joined #lisp 04:55:05 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.128.208] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:59:40 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 05:02:21 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:02:21 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:03:14 -!- illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 05:04:12 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 05:04:26 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E44ADE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 05:04:37 thoolihan [n=thooliha@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:03 -!- thoolihan [n=thooliha@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:06:56 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-22-141.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:07:52 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.125.103] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:08:50 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-20-220.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 05:14:40 grouzen_ [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has joined #lisp 05:15:19 dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:27 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:24:12 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-34-141.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:25:15 mokogobo [n=mokogobo@12.192.37.69.nntc.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:56 -!- roconnor [n=roconnor@69-196-141-93.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:29:30 -!- w4g3n3r [n=brian@99.144.114.238] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:30:49 -!- justin` [n=justin@ip24-250-39-58.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:34:45 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:35:12 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@12.192.37.69.nntc.net] has left #lisp 05:40:35 -!- Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@207-237-217-78.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:47:05 -!- domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:01:18 -!- jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has left #lisp 06:08:58 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:09:31 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:09:37 border-(top|left): 1px solid white, border-(bottom|right): 1px solid black; instant fake CSS button. ditto for tabs. non need to mess with js for those things. 06:09:49 aaaaand miss, wrong window 06:10:07 hello 06:11:36 -!- ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 06:11:50 hello MrSpec 06:13:19 is anyone here working on openAL bindings, or planning on it? 06:13:44 Otherwise, I'm gonna go do it myself. There seems to have been some work on it in cells, but the bindings look shaky at best. 06:13:55 not like the repo is even available, from what it seems. 06:14:22 sykopomp: regarding cells, I seem to have found a repo someone made in place of the abandoned stuff 06:14:25 might be more lively 06:14:31 I'v got a question, When I use (let (x 2) ...), Is it ok to use let, or should I use let*? Which one is basic? 06:14:42 p_l: is there a link? 06:14:57 sykopomp: wait, I'll find it 06:15:00 MrSpec: Do you mean (let ((x 2)) ...)? 06:15:02 (let ((x 2)) ...) 06:15:05 yes 06:15:30 MrSpec: If you have only one variable initialization, use let. 06:15:30 (let ([x 2]) ...) 06:15:33 *ducks* 06:15:34 https://github.com/Ramarren/cells/tree and https://github.com/Ramarren/cells-gtk3/tree 06:15:43 sykopomp: dunno if it contains OpenAL stuff 06:15:44 oh, ramarren? 06:15:48 yeah 06:15:52 and if 2? 06:16:13 MrSpec: I use LET unless a binding needs the result of a previous one. 06:16:17 p_l: it doesn't look like it, no. 06:16:27 ok, thanks 06:16:45 ... someone should whip people behind x3100 drivers for linux 06:17:15 alright then. I'll go set up a repo for cl-openal I guess :\ 06:17:55 sykopomp: can't you FFI just the stuff you need? 06:18:03 hard to imagine everything needs FFIed 06:18:07 too practical. 06:18:16 heh 06:18:24 too dirty 06:18:32 plus, having actual bindings is more useful 06:18:33 :P 06:19:05 you're talking about a C API. You've already lost the dirty wars. 06:19:24 I dunno. cl-opengl is pretty nice. 06:19:49 i would have just written a C driver with a main function called play_soundrack (char **file_name) and write the FFI for just that function 06:20:16 that's a little too low-rent even for me. 06:20:16 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl410.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:20:50 I don't even know C :P 06:20:54 don't ask what i did to ffmpeg then ;-) 06:20:58 sykopomp: HAHA! 06:21:32 :( 06:21:38 cl is my first language. It's not my fault. 06:22:13 someone paid me $90 to tutor them through a midterm in C, though. Can't be too hard to actually write it. 06:22:43 *fusss* taught java as well, without ever writing a line in it. 06:22:58 -!- A_anekos is now known as anekos 06:23:05 I tried taking a class that happened to use java. I couldn't stomach it :( 06:23:35 ejs [n=eugen@192-205-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:52 it's a fairly decentish language, C++-like, specially if you write the code with `echo` and compile with a bastardized GNU compiler 06:24:55 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-142-7.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:27 -!- ignas [n=ignas@79.132.160.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:36:26 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:40:45 -!- ejs [n=eugen@192-205-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:43:34 sykopomp: C might be harder and easier at the same time 06:47:04 C is quick to learn and hard to master 06:47:41 portable C doubly so 06:50:20 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-135-166.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:51:25 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:52:11 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:56:28 jmbr [n=jmbr@92.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:05:08 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:08:30 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:08:51 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-147-127-79.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:04 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-147-127-79.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:14:17 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 07:20:08 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:22:08 -!- aja [n=aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 07:27:42 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:27:45 sweet-as [n=sweet-as@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 07:27:49 hello 07:28:07 what options do i have for doing GUIs in lisp? 07:28:07 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@92.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:29:02 sweet-as: thar be commonQt and CLIM 07:29:07 vy [n=user@88.224.119.146] has joined #lisp 07:29:20 also some gtk thing if I remember things correctly 07:29:33 yeah, there are some gtk toolkits 07:29:38 assuming any of the gtk thingys work 07:29:47 Also wxCL 07:29:47 Hi! What's the right way to re-signal a received condition which is a subclass of `ERROR'? 07:30:10 sweet-as: No idea if any of these things actually are in working order :) 07:30:53 ok 07:32:00 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 07:33:00 McCLIM and CommonQt seem to be closest to working order. Plus there's stuff in commercial lisps and Cocoa in CCL (if you run on Mac) 07:33:00 elias` [n=me@host217-42-207-213.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 07:33:27 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@ip98-185-236-17.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit ["*yawn*"] 07:33:45 ltk, i think, works too 07:34:19 ah yes, ltk 07:34:33 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 07:34:41 might be the stables of free solutions :D 07:34:48 *stablest 07:38:14 -!- X-Scale is now known as X-Scale2 07:38:57 jao [n=jao@77.Red-83-37-137.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:34 -!- X-Scale2 is now known as X-Scale 07:40:18 *p_l* tries compiling cells-gtk3 07:40:23 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 07:40:43 sweet-as: What kind of GUIs are you thinking of writing? 07:43:39 alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd315151.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 07:44:07 -!- alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd315151.netvigator.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:45:21 alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd315151.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 07:46:17 ... does anyone else has SLIME opening buffers with files that were part of the compilation (like through ,load-system)? 07:46:43 that's a feature 07:47:11 *hefner* never loads systems through slime 07:47:16 stassats: let me guess, those are files that emitted compiler notes? 07:47:36 yes, slime highlights all of them 07:48:36 hmm... I'll have to add some kind of ,load-system! that doesn't do that - I have enough problems fixing *my* code, not something I just loaded to see if it compiles :D 07:48:54 ..or you could not load systems with the slime command. 07:49:34 BTW, cells from Ramarren compile on SBCL 1.0.28.70. Impressive, as it is first time I had seen cells finish compiling without errors 07:49:50 hefner: Well, I prefer it over typing (asdf:oos ...) 07:50:12 If you use SBCL, I'd just use require. 07:50:46 require has no completion! 07:51:02 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:51:48 (while ,l reads all systems for completion, i can type the name 10 times) 07:52:01 I fear the kind of awful system names that would make that an issue. 07:52:41 well, I use it only for experimenting in REPL, so... 07:53:00 *stassats* has source notes switched of for ,l, i should probably switch off completion too 07:53:29 because some systems are on nfs, and that's... slow 07:59:02 hello, I am new to lisp, would anyone help telling me why the following clisp code does not work, thanks. (map 'list #'(lambda (x) (x + 1)) '(1 2 3)) 07:59:06 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:59:36 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.220.32.92] has joined #lisp 07:59:44 (+ x 1) 07:59:51 for starters 07:59:59 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.254.198] has joined #lisp 08:00:04 vy pasted "babel" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81447 08:00:06 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 08:00:08 fusss: oh, yes thanks 08:00:20 alantsang: that's not it though 08:00:38 Does anybody have an idea about above babel error in the paste? 08:00:49 you wanna do something like (mapcar (lambda (x) (1+ x)) (list 1 2 3)) 08:01:10 what? why? it works if you fix the addition. 08:01:39 alantsang: What result did you expect? 08:01:55 if it's homework you should probably keep it, but it has a few stylistic faux-pases (faux-pai?) 08:02:09 ... I had a runaway SBCL process inside SLIME.. 08:02:52 fusss exaggerates, surely. 08:03:03 (2 3 4), thanks I think fusss have given me the reason. 08:03:29 alantsang: More idiomatic would be (mapcar #'1+ '(1 2 3)) 08:03:41 beach: +1 08:03:48 .. 08:03:50 fusss: ? 08:03:57 if you're going to nitpick, just replace the whole thing with '(2 3 4) 08:04:04 beach: internetese for "I agree" 08:04:12 oh, right. 08:04:31 (map 'list ..) really hef? 08:04:53 (loop for i on list collect (1+ i)) 08:05:01 you should probably expand that pattern to (map 'list .. ) if you want to make a valid point 08:05:29 and while I wouldn't write it, I think any suggestions beyond correcting the (x + 1) are petty and counterproductive 08:06:10 i think we can discuss this in our next committee meeting 08:06:52 particularly as you're chiding the newbie for using the more modern and generic MAP instead of the quite specialized, funkily-named old MAPCAR 08:07:46 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:08:19 an appropriate way to make your point might have been a single line stating your preference toward writing it as (mapcar #'1+ '(1 2 3)) instead. 08:08:54 ..not leading on that there were other terribly wrong things with his expression that might cause the universe to implode ;) 08:09:33 functions that take a type argument confuse *me*; I wouldn't wish the same on others :-D 08:10:32 wow, and they call lispers unfriendly; people are actually arguing on how to help newbies .. 08:11:43 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:12:37 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Success] 08:12:51 that's just how meta I am. 08:13:32 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.72.39] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:13:39 sure, metawad 08:13:54 *fusss* play on "meatwad" a good friend of mine ;-) 08:13:55 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 08:14:54 *p_l* notices that he gets oom way too often lately 08:16:59 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:17:10 xan [n=xan@62.78.225.40] has joined #lisp 08:18:26 HG` [n=wells@xdsles176.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:21:34 anyone here use the rucksack package? 08:22:33 rockindie [n=sonu@117.197.53.56] has joined #lisp 08:22:35 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:24:18 Qsource: I do :-) 08:25:13 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:22 good evening everyone 08:25:27 fusss: what are you supposed to do about the schema? defclass with :metaclass persistent-class wants to write it into an active rucksack, but what if there's more than one, with different schemas? 08:26:16 if you redefine the class rucksack will redefine it and update all previous instances to the new class 08:26:39 that's why you need *both* defclass and make-instance with in with-transaction 08:26:41 does anyone feel like helping me with a really simple recursive function i can't seem to figure out? 08:26:46 great, so right now I have (defmacro myschemaone `(progn (defclass ....) (defclass ...))) 08:26:49 that's a hack, not a solution 08:27:16 not a solution. wrap all definition and instantiation with with-transaction 08:27:44 fusss: that doesn't seem possible? i don't instantiate or open a rucksack until well into runtime. i may need to create a new one. 08:27:45 -!- xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:27:46 the ECLS speech in the package is very enlightening. great lit. 08:27:57 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:28:24 the write-schema-at-defclass thing works fine when you expect to run this as a -script 08:28:30 Qsource: think it out then; i haven't wrapped anything up further also 08:29:37 Qsource: you wanna test do a few tests btw; my uses are unusual in that i can queue stuff in memory (json data) and then call make-instance on each tuple in one big step 08:29:47 -!- grouzen_ [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:29:48 there is also elephant which is far more CLOSy 08:30:02 to be honest, rucksack is already too CLOS-y for my taste 08:30:03 *fusss* it's 4:30AM, i should probably head home 08:30:30 resist the urge to think in SQL, if you're doing that; only brought me pain 08:30:38 what is wrong with being CLOS-y? ;D 08:30:42 *Qsource* is not thinking in SQL 08:31:20 Qsource: on my deployent, rucksack instantiates and comits half a million instance in a second :-P 08:31:51 play with it and delay the transaction-lock until the last minute 08:32:34 nite 08:32:38 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-119-150.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 08:32:42 i'm not very concerned about performance; i'm having enough trouble just getting basic functionality working 08:33:21 can somebody help me figure out how to write a recursive function that will take this argument: (THIS LIST X NEEDS TO BE X BROKEN AT XS) and return this: ((THIS LIST)(NEEDS TO BE)(BROKEN AT XS)) ? 08:33:37 -!- xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:33:39 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:34:02 p_l: rucksack isn't too bad, but in general, i don't like things that want me to tie things to CLOS/defclass; i find too many cases when i can't write a defclass ahead of time, and doing it at runtime for temporary things is hard and wrong. also, the explicit list of slots is very annoying, so i'm only half a fan of CLOS anyway 08:34:19 isismelting: split-sequence? 08:35:07 Qsource - is that built-in or an additional package? 08:35:32 grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has joined #lisp 08:35:41 Qsource - really, each "X" is something like "?x" or "?y" -- variables (i have a "variablep") -- i am doing complex pattern matching. 08:36:23 minion: split-sequence 08:36:24 split-sequence: SPLIT-SEQUENCE (formerly known as PARTITION) is a member of the Common Lisp Utilities family of programs, designed by community consensus. http://www.cliki.net/split-sequence 08:37:00 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-131-191.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:37:38 isismelting: (as you just saw) it's an additional package, but there's a canonical implementation that's pretty good. i don't know what you mean by "like ?x or ?y". maybe you want a regex library also. 08:38:09 your specific case is also a simple recursion. if you paste some broken code and ask questions, we/someone can probably guide you to a working implementation 08:38:44 -!- xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:38:55 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:39:17 -!- xan [n=xan@62.78.225.40] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:39:46 weblocks is what's really annoying me with its CLOSness 08:40:01 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 08:40:17 (defun variablep (arg) 08:40:18 (and (symbolp arg) 08:40:18 (equal (elt (symbol-name arg) 0) #\?))) 08:40:18 (defun subpat (pattern) 08:40:18 (cond ((null (car pattern)) nil) 08:40:18 ((variablep (car pattern)) nil) 08:40:20 (t (cons (car pattern) (subpat (cdr pattern)))))) 08:40:25 pastesite please 08:40:29 *Qsource* is not gonna try to read it here 08:40:46 sorry - how do i pastesite something 08:41:00 there's a url in the topic 08:41:14 sepult [n=buggarag@87.78.72.238] has joined #lisp 08:41:33 also, if you can paste or otherwise indicate how you're running it, what results you get, what results you're expecting, and why you think the results you get are wrong 08:41:42 Qsource - the split-sequence code does basically what i want, but seems so long and complex... 08:42:14 isismelting: it is, but it implements a lot of other splitting semantics, and [i would hope] it's been well-tested 08:42:47 essentially i have patterns that look like '(the ?x and the ?y are both ?z) - and i need to break that into sub-patterns, in order to find each sub-patter inside the user-input. 08:43:04 any simple eliza-like bot must have something like this, right? 08:43:18 isismelting: that doesn't really help me. whatever "pattern" means to you, it doesn't mean the same thing to me. see above about results, what you expect, what you think you should get, etc. 08:44:02 also, does anyone in here use weblocks? ;/ 08:44:17 ok, well thanks, let me take a few minutes to formulate my question better. 08:44:24 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:47:27 ... impossible has happened - a GTK2 binding compiled without errors (ton of compiler notes, but no *errors*!) 08:47:35 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:47:41 hoy 08:48:06 p_l: this would be an ideal moment for the OOM to nuke SBCL and destroy the evidence. 08:48:21 hefner: fasls are already on disk 08:48:31 *p_l* does a quick sync, just in case 08:48:36 heh 08:48:50 ext4 user? =p 08:49:22 making_money [i=4cac0c91@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d866d9aa893b3574] has joined #lisp 08:49:24 hefner: no. But any troubles relating to improper, ext3 based practices would have hit me already long ago (and possibly, with FF, had hit me few times) 08:49:53 what is the more social channel of lisp? 08:50:30 #lispcafe 08:51:31 hefner: btw, trying to run provided tests failed with memory error :D 08:52:08 pstickne [n=pstickne@24.21.76.57] has joined #lisp 08:53:04 -!- sweet-as [n=sweet-as@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:53:31 sweet-as [n=sweet@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:54:32 -!- making_money [i=4cac0c91@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d866d9aa893b3574] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 08:54:37 -!- sweet-as [n=sweet@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:55:04 sweet-as [n=sweet@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:55:23 probably caused somewhere in FFI 08:55:30 -!- xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:56:32 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:58:37 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:10 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:01:49 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@87.220.33.154] has joined #lisp 09:01:57 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 09:02:06 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@87.220.33.154] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:02:49 grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has joined #lisp 09:03:49 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:49 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@154.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:04:21 does sb-thread work under freebsd? 09:04:47 I'm getting an error: not supported in unithread 09:05:06 although I have compiled sbcl from source and didnt get any options 09:05:52 PissedNumlock, $ grep thread INSTALL 09:06:26 ..if you compile from source you got to explicitly state that you want threads 09:06:39 -!- jao [n=jao@77.Red-83-37-137.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:07:14 and http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Threading.html "Support for threading on Darwin (Mac OS X) and FreeBSD on the x86 is experimental." 09:08:48 oh well, I'll see how experimental it is :) 09:09:25 thx 09:10:09 np .. btw. .. if you want something solid (for server side work, perhaps?) Debian is very good -- and well, threads work well there .. .. :) 09:10:24 I come from debian :) 09:10:51 threads on linux work quite well indeed. 09:11:09 I just wanted to try BSD, see what I was missing 09:11:27 it doesn't do that much for you (unlike ubuntu) but at least I'm learning smthg now 09:11:49 *hefner* would probably be running freebsd on his laptop, if any of the install images would've downloaded at the time 09:12:26 tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:13:33 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:13:43 and why does sbcl say BSD only has version .23 working 09:13:52 while ports has version .29 released 2 days ago 09:14:29 where is this mentioned? 09:14:51 http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/platform-table.html 09:14:55 oh, on the sbclsite .. that table is manually updated 09:15:20 i don't think there is a back-connection from ports --> that site :} 09:17:01 ... who wants lisp implementation in AWK? 09:17:25 -!- dto22 [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:17:46 -!- alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd315151.netvigator.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:18:16 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:19:22 hefner: you tried and were unable to download a FreeBSD ISO? 09:19:54 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.220.32.92] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:20:17 PissedNumlock: the platform table has only the binaries: not all binaries are updated for every release 09:20:48 if your platform doesn't have a new binary, you get to build your own -- it's very very easy 09:20:53 Qsource: yeah, five or six months ago. I forget the details. 09:21:17 hefner: weird. do you live far away from civilization? ;/ 09:21:24 and if you want threads, you need to build your own anyways, since none of the binaries are build with threads 09:21:58 Qsource: no, not at all, but the various mirrors I tried before my patience was exhausted all went fantastically slow or stalled partway through. 09:22:19 so obviously ports maintainers build their own binaries 09:22:25 I just did 09:22:29 now slime won't compile :p 09:22:53 oh well, I'll just test it on my laptop 09:23:05 -!- tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:23:21 Qsource: I'll assume they were just having a bad night. 09:26:08 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-80-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:26:48 -!- jmbr_ is now known as jmbr 09:30:40 asksol_ [n=ask@084202248064.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 09:31:19 jao [n=jao@184.Red-81-32-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:13 -!- sweet-as [n=sweet@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 09:32:19 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 09:32:30 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.181.83] has joined #lisp 09:34:26 -!- jao [n=jao@184.Red-81-32-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:37:37 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@host58-142-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:37:42 -!- bobf_ is now known as bobf 09:37:44 Uhm, I started learning lisp and emacs, now I have slime and a file open, and with C-c C-c I can run the code I've written directly. But how can I quickly switch between windows? Can't find it on the reference card. I mean there's my "first.lisp" window, then there is *inferior-lisp* which is the repl *slime-events* and so on, what's the hotkey to switch between those? 09:40:08 Shapeshifter: standard Emacs buffer switching. That means, it will switch like you configured it (there are probably some bindings to switch fast to REPL, but I haven't used them) 09:40:14 C-x b works fine for me 09:40:36 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:41 Shapeshifter: C-x b is the general way to switch buffers. C-x o cycles through visible buffers if the frame happens to be split. Slime provides its own slime-select feature described in the manual, but I think the keys for all of these are awful. 09:41:21 Shapeshifter: Split the screen into two vertical (C-x 3) or horizontal (C-x 2) windows, and jump between those windows using C-x o. 09:42:10 *inferior-lisp* is not the "real" Slime REPL btw., Shapeshifter 09:42:15 thanks guys. 09:42:15 sophisticated emacs users have developed a huge variety of different buffer switching approaches. I just bind function keys to the couple operations I need most frequently (compile definition, other window, slime repl) 09:45:55 lisp is kinda cute. Just from this first two pages of the tutorial, I think I'm getting to like it... 09:46:26 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 09:50:19 Excellent! 09:52:06 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 09:54:19 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 09:54:35 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B313C01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:55:08 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:57:47 milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has joined #lisp 09:58:28 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-48.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:58:41 grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has joined #lisp 09:58:59 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 10:00:21 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-79.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:01:50 -!- vy [n=user@88.224.119.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:05:14 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@host58-142-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:06:04 Shapeshifter: Which tutorial are you reading? 10:07:11 antoszka: Practical Common Lisp http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 10:07:17 Ah, yeah. 10:10:05 divz [n=divz@158.144.44.212] has joined #lisp 10:10:15 hello all 10:10:23 hello divz 10:12:28 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@87.78.72.238] has quit ["leaving"] 10:13:22 anyone has any idea as how to do authentication through xmlrpc in lisp 10:16:04 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:33 dto`` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:42 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 10:22:44 -!- rockindie [n=sonu@117.197.53.56] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:22:48 I don't understand this part: I made a function to map arguments to keywords, like this: (defun make-cd (title artist rating ripped) 10:22:55 (list :title title :artist artist :rating rating :ripped ripped)) 10:23:23 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:23:23 and now I was supposed to define a global variable: (defvar *db* nil) 10:23:24 afaik normal way to do auth with xmlrpc is to either pass a username/password in the request -- which is presumably encrypted..., or to use http auth 10:23:46 but i've never used xmlrpc, so i may be totally of the base 10:23:59 Now why does this work?: (defun add-record (cd) (push cd *db*)) How does lisp know that *db* will be a list? 10:24:10 it doesn't 10:24:44 (PUSH X Y) is equivalent to (SETF Y (CONS X Y)) 10:24:46 Shapeshifter: (push a b) is roughly equivalent to (setf b (cons a b)) 10:24:48 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 10:24:49 heh 10:24:53 "You can use the PUSH macro to add items to *db*." and *db* is a global variable. 10:25:34 mhh. So at the point of definition, *db* is nil, but I can assign anything to it, and I'm doing so using push? 10:26:04 yes. you're not mutating the thing stored in *DB*, you're storing a new head to the singly linked list there 10:26:11 Shapeshifter: Yes, nil is the same as the empty list, and pushing things to it creates a list with more elements, and assigns the result to *db* 10:26:28 allright 10:30:39 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-134-212.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:30:47 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:31:36 chris2 [n=chris@p5B168357.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:31:53 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087FE90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:55 nikodemus: but in the definition of xml-rpc-call I see only three keys viz host, port & url 10:32:11 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:43 nikodemus: so how do I provide username & password 10:35:21 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:36:58 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-12.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:38:40 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:46:08 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:32 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:48:03 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:52:28 jao [n=jao@47.Red-81-32-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:11 alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd315151.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 10:55:04 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:56:52 -!- Martinp23 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has left #lisp 11:00:02 nostoi [n=nostoi@54.Red-79-153-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:11 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:01:10 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:01:45 grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:02:44 hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 11:03:08 in lisp, everything is kind of "preorder" right? At least until now it seems like everything starts with the "function" or "macro", followed by arguments, even if it's counter intuitive to humans (or compared to other languages), e.g. it's or 1 2 and not 1 or 2 11:03:34 Shapeshifter: yes. 11:04:07 Shapeshifter: + 1 2 instead of 1 + 2 :) 11:04:15 there is no infix operators in lisp 11:04:30 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:04:52 I guess one could work out something like (infix (1 + 2) ....) ;) 11:05:26 there is already 11:05:34 Man that's dumb (: 11:07:21 hnr [n=henry@81.101.138.61] has joined #lisp 11:09:16 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:52 and, it may be counter intuitive for mathematicians, but not humans 11:14:27 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087FE90.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:15:36 some lisp looks more like math than c though 11:15:46 http://pastebin.com/m62cab31 11:16:29 how does that look more like math? 11:16:56 two dimensional 11:16:59 yeah 11:17:14 math works vertically, also .. and lisp does too 11:17:31 but c does not - at least not in a nice way imho 11:17:38 well you can just put the /2 on a second line i c as well... 11:18:29 http://pastebin.com/m663eb335 11:18:55 manual indentation .. :} 11:19:45 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 11:20:01 you need more of something like (defun  (predicate sequence) (every predicate sequence)) to look like math 11:20:37  for SOME 11:20:39 etc. 11:22:02 APL in Lisp .. x) .. i love messing with unicode stuff and read macros :) 11:22:40 APL is extremely intuitive 11:23:13 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:23:54 my vacation starts in a few days, and I was thinking of writing a panel for linux (yeah there already are like a billion panels for linux, but I don't really like any of them). I thought I'd just write it in C++ or something, but what do you think, would it be possible/practical to do it in lisp? Using CLX? 11:24:04 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:24:17 i don't even know what a panel is 11:24:31 ..been using linux since 1997 .. heh 11:24:43 a bar that displays current tasks, maybe a tray and such things. 11:24:52 gnome-panel, pypanel, bmpanel, kpanel... 11:24:57 ohyeah, those 11:25:24 that sounds rather boring to me 11:27:42 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:28:07 Shapeshifter: Biggest downside with using lisp for something like that is 1) the lack of fancy premade bindings for whatever one needs to do a panel, and 2) the size of the resulting binary :) But sure it's possible. 11:28:36 2 depends on what implementation you use 11:28:47 what's with the binary? 11:28:47 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@54.Red-79-153-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 11:28:52 I haven't seen any implementation generate small binaries :) 11:29:03 ecl? 11:29:09 Haven't used it :) 11:29:18 with libecl smaller than glibc 11:29:30 that's great. 11:29:42 I will have to look into this. 11:30:21 stassats: And why boring? 11:30:23 Shapeshifter: most lisp implementations will want to dump all of lisp into the binary. 11:31:34 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:31:50 does this ecl work with mcclim? 11:32:02 grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:32:33 another way, does mcclim work on ecl? 11:32:40 ok. 11:32:48 english is such a funny language at times (: 11:33:43 i wouldn't expect it to work 11:33:57 Me neither.. hrrm. 11:34:01 oh well. 11:34:13 Yuuhi [i=benni@84.131.199.5] has joined #lisp 11:34:34 Shapeshifter: But yes, you can write a panel in lisp. I guess one could use clx. I have no idea what goes into writing panels. But go for it :) 11:34:50 it won't work automagically, someone need to adapt it 11:35:58 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:00 So what kind of things have you written in lisp? 11:37:59 you can write in lisp whatever you want 11:38:19 I was just asking ^^ 11:38:19 as long as it is AI software ;) 11:38:50 Shapeshifter: at the moment I'm rewriting a backgammon client. 11:38:50 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:39:03 but I got distracted by browsing the ecl documentation :) 11:40:36 I've written a program that controls a roomba over bluetooth, and some stuff for homework and working with wood (very simplistic, for calculating stuff like how much wood is needed for a certain object and how much it costs etc)... 11:41:05 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:42:10 danlei [n=user@pD9E2D567.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:36 maybe this ecl would solve the jackd problem. 11:42:40 hmmmm! 11:42:51 is boehm realtime? 11:43:01 oh right. 11:43:04 I forgot all about the RT issues. 11:43:06 darned. :) 11:43:26 I was just thinking about the callback issues. you're right, that won't work. 11:43:33 blubber! 11:44:36 aren't callbacks working in sbcl too? 11:45:32 No. 11:46:01 at all? 11:46:03 sbcl seems to get very upset when something external to itself fires up the callbacks. 11:46:32 It seems they are not supposed to be called from outside of lisp space at random moments, with teh callbacks in lisp space. 11:47:00 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-80-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:47:40 but it all dun matter. with the gc problem and all :) 11:47:50 now to make some backgammon playable again :) 11:49:41 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-182.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 11:51:23 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:52:00 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:54:09 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-182.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 11:54:46 -!- alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd315151.netvigator.com] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 11:55:27 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:57 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:56:59 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:05 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #lisp 11:58:10 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:01:19 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:04:30 kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:08 Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:08:03 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.254.198] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:08:34 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.137.67] has joined #lisp 12:09:58 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:10:36 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:11:19 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:12:55 simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:14:23 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:14:32 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 12:15:28 grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has joined #lisp 12:15:31 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:21:33 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:40 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@154.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:21:46 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:30:46 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving..."] 12:33:15 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-155-74.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:35:56 Anyone here use ContextL with databases. 12:36:10 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:37:33 In a bugtrack system I have a complex form which is read from many tables, but composed into a view. 12:38:17 It is read into a class. What I would like to do is make it present a different view of the data depending on the role of the user. 12:38:55 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:40:11 -!- asksol_ [n=ask@084202248064.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Client Quit] 12:40:14 A unregistered user can only read it, the user that creates it can edit everything, while registered users who haven't created it can add users can add comments or elaborations to the problem. administrators can change that status etc.. 12:40:46 Seems to me ContextL could be used for this, but never having tried I am not sure. 12:41:09 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:42:55 I was thinking of using a general routine to present forms based on such classes. 12:43:02 Simularly for reports. 12:45:22 Jacob_H_ [n=jacob@92.4.93.143] has joined #lisp 12:45:29 lispm [n=joswig@e177127093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:06 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.181.83] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:46:39 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:20 -!- Jacob_H_ is now known as Jacob_H 12:48:17 frobar [n=ulf@h-88-48.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 12:49:52 is there some way to impose a hard limit on the number of characters some object will consume with format, so that for example 1234 would get printed as "12" with a limit of 2 characters? 12:50:00 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-80-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:51:04 for floating point sure, can't see it makes much sence for integers 12:52:44 i have an application where i want to print "123.." for numbers above a certain length in some circumstances. just thought i'd check if there was some easy way to do it with format. 12:55:29 Not directly there is a mincol, but no maxcol for ~D 12:56:32 ok, i'll just hack it in manually then 12:56:34 milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has joined #lisp 12:57:12 domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has joined #lisp 12:57:32 Can't you just convert the number to string first (using format) and use ~A with the subseq of the size you want? 12:58:18 (format t "~A" (subseq 0 9 (format nil "~D" number))) 12:58:39 or somenthing like that (unested) 12:58:48 yeah, i had something like that in mind 12:58:55 Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:00:48 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 13:01:50 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:02:16 Opps.. (format t "~A" (subseq (format nil "~D" number) 0 9)) 13:02:18 jthing, perhaps a method-combination is enough? .. i've only tested or played with contextl http://paste.lisp.org/display/81451 13:04:20 ..ofc. these methods could be used to just determine what is to be presented; i.e, they shouldn't both do the determining and the presenting 13:04:59 -!- simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:06:13 It would require several classes, but I suppose that would work too. The nice thing abot the contextL approach is it's basically just one big class, you just hide some entries or make them read only. 13:06:48 yeah 13:07:33 But perhaps the same thing could be done with a bit mask. 13:08:56 hm, not sure what you mean .. but uh, well, "multiple bits" --> method with multiple arguments for multiple dispatch (?) .. yeah 13:10:17 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 13:10:45 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:44 When presenting the class each attribute would have two bit's representing display status. 00 hide - 01 read - 11 read/write. Then the view would be the class combined with a role bitmask. 13:11:47 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.123.224] has joined #lisp 13:11:51 got to make sure the type/class hierarchy will be enough data to work as a sort of filter or mask, then ofc. 13:13:07 *lnostdal* needs more beer .. stuck-in-a-loop-code .. *mumble* 13:13:55 well a bug report is just basically are large amout of fields on on type of object. 13:14:48 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:10 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:19:56 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-80-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:22:08 demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig121.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:08 mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:26:34 Corun [n=Corun@wavelan139.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:28:30 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@84.131.199.5] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:29:11 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:29:14 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:29:51 -!- domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:31:53 alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd315151.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:24 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-35-231-210.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:35:45 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:35:48 grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has joined #lisp 13:37:48 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:39:26 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:07 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:43:55 johanbev [n=johanbev@230.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:08 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p54BAF692.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:11 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:49:42 parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:51 lzpol [n=lzpol@h59ec2263.c46-04-13.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:46 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:54:21 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:01:20 jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 14:01:43 hello all. Anyone know how Climacs development is going? 14:01:52 jbjohns: I do, yes. 14:02:05 jbjohns: It is pretty slow right now, but I fixed a bug the other day. 14:02:08 It seems like it is becoming a good system, but has a lot of work to go yet, right? 14:02:18 jbjohns: Not *that* much. 14:02:33 how is the speed? Comparable to emacs? 14:03:13 I mean, I expect it to be a little slower, emacs is one big C hack, but with the state of SBCL, etc. these days, who knows 14:03:18 jbjohns: Mostly yes. It is not quite comparable because Climacs has a much more sophisticated incremental LR parser for things like Lisp than Emacs does, so it takes more ressources, but the result is better. 14:04:01 it looks pretty interesting on the screen shots with popups instead of this curses style terminal stuff emacs does 14:04:19 jbjohns: And yes, the fact that we are working with compiled Lisp instead of elisp makes things pretty fast. 14:04:38 how many people are working on it? 14:04:48 jbjohns: Very close to 0 right now. 14:04:57 ack. Day jobs getting in the way? 14:05:03 You got it. 14:05:12 :) I know that pain all too well 14:05:42 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:05:45 we need to band together and make an anarchistic society where we can just make the world a better place and not have to worry about our families starving 14:06:09 and by "make the world a better place" I mean by applying what we're good at: making great software 14:06:25 Who will make the hardware? ;) 14:06:35 why can't we have both? .. great software and non-starving families? 14:07:04 lnostdal: I think we can. 14:07:13 because in current society I have to waste all my resources writing the same silly business apps in inferior languages instead of contributing some lasting 14:07:40 I assume it's like that for most of us 14:09:36 jbjohns: I know several people who get away with working on personal projects one or even two days a week. You can do that because we are unable to measure productivity in software development. Plus, if you are just slightly more productive (like from using better tools, or being able to touch type) you are already way ahead of your colleagues. 14:09:45 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 14:10:11 true, but fighting with Java/C# style development is really draining 14:10:37 I can believe that, though I haven't experienced it. 14:10:42 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:48 jbjohns: Get another job. 14:10:56 They vastly over complicate everything 14:11:18 lzpol: any place in western europe hiring for Lisp/Smalltalk/Haskell/erlang? :) 14:11:34 Cadence perhaps? 14:11:36 with someone who has no professional experience with these languages yet? :) 14:11:45 jbjohns: you have to make those places yourself 14:11:48 Cadence, is that the smalltalk guys? 14:12:06 jbjohns: No, it's a place that makes CAD systems for electronics. 14:12:09 jbjohns: Though I heard there's quite a lot of Erlang around Edinburgh 14:12:31 p_l: I wish I had. Now I'm married with a child, can't be quite so risky 14:12:51 I am working toward a few different directions to get some other incomes but it takes time 14:13:03 (nothing illegal, just online stores etc.) 14:13:15 jbjohns: Well, you can worm any of those languages into your workplace 14:13:47 Though won't you just then be stuck writing business apps in haskell and lisp? Seems like the same thing really ;) 14:14:04 p_l: Not so easy. It is a bit easier now that the really draconian upper manager we had got sacked, but still could have some bad consequences 14:14:06 Cadence hired some Smalltalk guys 14:14:44 jbjohns: why would you even have to say "not illegal"? that's what most people would assume :P 14:14:46 the CAD system they are mostly known for uses a language called SKILL, which is kind of a Lisp 14:15:15 Adamant_: no, i though about organized crime, really 14:15:21 most larger (or in this case, smaller but think they're large) businesses are really strict about what languages can be used. They know that people like myself would "prototype" something so much faster than it could be delivered that the business would insist on using the proto and then they're stuck with Lisp/whatever 14:15:24 thought 14:15:36 Adamant_: I've been watching too much Sapranos on the train 14:15:46 weird 14:16:04 I would assume something like a web store or renting a house/apartment you own 14:17:04 some trading houses like the exotic languages 14:17:11 I know Jane Street in the US does 14:17:23 jbjohns: The think is that those decision makers don't know about Turing equivalence. Where I used to work (a long time ago), there was a strict rule that Pascal had to be used for everything, so I wrote a Lisp interpreter in Pascal and wrote the application in Lisp. 14:17:23 Yea. Sadly the web store is in PHP. I don't even have time to make a decent CMS for the store 14:17:31 *thing 14:17:39 beach: haha, nice 14:18:05 the problem is that if you work for a crappy trading house, your life will suck, although you will be very well compensated for the suckage 14:18:53 Well, as sad as it is, the thinking in these businesses these days is "we need a team of mediocre people. Good people just get bored and leave.". A colleague of mine actually saw a memo to that effect sent around by some managers. I also heard two managers talking that basically said that same thing last week 14:19:16 jbjohns: so work where they want exceptional people 14:19:31 Adamant_: I think Jane Street is by far the exception, and that was (afaiu) one guy who snuck something in that stuck 14:19:31 there are niche domains that the exotic languages fill 14:19:42 start-ups? 14:19:48 jbjohns: Credit Suisse is using Haskell 14:19:56 Are you serious? What country? 14:20:08 stassats: well, when you're joining a company of *2* people, you can have your way with languages :D 14:20:09 let me check haskell.org 14:20:12 Adamant_: now that is interesting... 14:20:21 UBS uses Smalltalk, but just in one team and I didn't get that one because they had another guy with years of smalltalk env experience 14:20:56 p_l: yeah, and you can go bankrupt the next day 14:21:02 I mean, years of professional experience. All I had to show was an open source ICAL rule engine 14:21:05 there is a weblog for Lisp jobs: http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/ 14:21:28 * Credit Suisse Global Modelling and Analytics Group London, UK; New York City, New York 14:21:28 GMAG, the quantitative modelling group at Credit Suisse, has been using Haskell for various projects since the beginning of 2006, with the twin aims of improving the productivity of modellers and making it easier for other people within the bank to use GMAG models. Current projects include: Further work on tools for checking, manipulating and transforming spreadsheets; a domain-specific language embedded in Haskell for implementing reusable compo 14:21:28 Credit Suisse's CUFP talk. 14:21:33 lispm: Looked at that, didn't see a fit. 14:21:35 sorry for barfage 14:21:43 I heard that some insurance company used a big Smalltalk app with object-database hooked up 14:21:47 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry 14:21:54 London and NYC 14:22:09 that's pretty cool. Ah, hrm, those are some pretty expensive places to live. 14:22:16 jbjohns: you a Brit? 14:22:19 London might not be too bad 14:22:23 American, but I live in Switzerland 14:22:26 ah 14:22:43 I don't plan on going back, but doing a 1-2 year contract would be ok 14:22:48 Swissair was doing some Lisp 14:22:49 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p54BAF692.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:22:51 that's why you perked up for Credit Suisse 14:22:54 I mean, I don't plan on going back long term 14:22:56 yes 14:22:57 stassats: well, normal contractor work for RoR job here is £300/day. A month's rent can be as low as £200 :> 14:23:26 p_l: That's only slightly more than I make as a permi 14:23:44 and time you add in all the benefits, it would be low 14:23:53 well, I'm currently pining up for £100/day with a startup 14:24:24 well, I guess I could live with even a little less than I make now if the work were interesting 14:24:24 they are getting some funding right now, afaik (well, they are on the market for 2 years now) 14:24:25 roconnor [n=roconnor@69-196-141-93.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:32 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:25:48 lispm: Swissair? You mean Swiss? Swissair went out of business. :) 14:26:31 when they still were Swissair, I guess parts of Swissair live on as 'Swiss' 14:26:45 hope the lisp part lives on 14:26:53 beach: So why is all the Climacs stuff in CVS? 14:27:04 any plan to move that to darcs, git or something? 14:27:11 There are some airline-related apps written in Lisp. Plus aviation industry does quite a lot of "less ordinary" languages, afaik 14:27:28 yeah, but "less ordinary" means Ada 14:27:39 unless you're writing processing backends 14:27:48 Adamant_: Not only Ada 14:28:03 p_l: for deploying on aircraft, I hope so 14:28:10 Swissair wrote some expert systems in Lisp, famous was one that optimized books and was running on Explorer Lisp Machines hooked up to mainframes 14:28:19 optimized bookings 14:28:30 Adamant_: not only for aircraft deployment (hard RT stuff isn't everything) 14:29:11 they eventually managed to port the application to Allegro CL after failed attempts and attempts to rewrite it in some other language (IIRC) 14:29:37 p_l: for aircraft deployment, I'd hope they are using something with a powerful type system like Ada 14:29:39 Adamant_: there was some CL app doing various calculations for airlines, there's some Erlang-based Airspace Control software, of course ton of Ada etc. 14:29:49 Erlang might be OK 14:30:07 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 14:30:21 Adamant_: For hard RT, I guess Ada 14:30:44 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdsles176.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:38:52 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:58 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 14:42:17 bobf_ [n=bob@host81-151-98-151.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:21 nickname` [n=Username@host-84-221-68-12.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:43:18 GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.188.227] has joined #lisp 14:43:51 can I make the output go into the repl buffer instead of the ilisp one? (emacs/slime/windows) 14:49:24 HG` [n=wells@xdslee166.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:25 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-22-141.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:49:28 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:49:40 GrayShade: that's a known bug 14:49:40 -!- alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd315151.netvigator.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:49:53 no one is going to fix it, apparently 14:50:16 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-24-217-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:19 (had i windows, i'd look into it) 14:50:42 The-Kenny [n=moritz@80.135.254.144] has joined #lisp 14:52:30 why? 14:52:44 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:52:56 GrayShade: No one runs windows :) 14:53:04 :/ 14:53:13 it depends on windows users fixing the bugs that affect them 14:53:16 i guess, because there is not much people on windows use slime, and who can fix it 14:53:53 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:54:02 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-105-150.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:54:04 is it related to sbcl or slime? 14:56:15 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:56:17 -!- bobf_ is now known as bobf 14:57:34 manuel_ [n=manuel@krlh-4d03495e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:41 no idea 15:02:59 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2D567.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:04:35 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@host122-138-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:04:56 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:01 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@host122-138-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:07:10 -!- dto`` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:07:54 -!- GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.188.227] has quit [] 15:08:38 danlei [n=user@pD9E2D567.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:21 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:11:05 dto`` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:02 -!- lzpol [n=lzpol@h59ec2263.c46-04-13.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:18:45 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:20:30 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:21:05 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@79.45.138.95] has joined #lisp 15:21:11 -!- dandersen is now known as dkcl 15:21:49 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@krlh-4d03495e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [] 15:22:51 deepfire submitted a patch which fixes it 15:23:08 but it's not complete 15:23:29 and stassats you can look into it. it's I think the same think that makes the `disconnect' test case fail 15:23:38 disconnect-and-reconnect it's called now 15:24:31 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@79.45.138.95] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:26:41 merimus [n=merimus@c-67-171-83-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:36 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068135180.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:10 -!- merimus [n=merimus@c-67-171-83-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:29:27 merimus [n=merimus@c-67-171-83-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:08 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 15:32:23 -!- divz [n=divz@158.144.44.212] has quit ["leaving"] 15:36:38 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:37 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-1436.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 15:41:16 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 15:47:28 -!- dkcl is now known as dandersen 15:48:41 phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 15:49:42 -!- Orest is now known as Orest^bnc 15:50:20 -!- Orest^bnc is now known as Orest 15:50:43 anyone have lisbuilder-sdl working under mac? 15:50:47 -!- Adamant_ [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 15:51:20 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:51:51 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit ["leaving"] 15:52:39 hm .. alexandrias compose is reversed .. at least from a haskell'ish angle 15:52:47 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:52:50 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:06 ..or, uh, which direction is most common? 15:54:33 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-35-231-210.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 15:54:35 i.e., (funcall (compose (curry '* 2) (curry '+ 1)) 3) => 8 instead of 7 15:55:16 how can i find all superclasses of a CLOS class? I know class-direct-superclasses. Do I have to traverse the tree of superclasses myself or is there something built in? 15:57:50 lnostdal: I thought that was how haskell did it too? 15:58:29 i think, compose [(*2), (+1)] 3 --> 7 , schme 15:58:37 huh. 15:59:02 I think let f x = 2 * x , let g x = 1 + x .. f . g $ 3 -> 8 16:03:05 -!- mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068135180.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:04:28 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:05:23 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 16:05:27 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 16:06:08 lnostdal: Seems to make sense to do it in that order from a maths point of view. 16:06:13 lnostdal: you seem to be wrong, in Haskell, '(*2) . (+1) $ 3' gives '8', too, of course 16:06:15 sure 16:06:33 lnostdal: the order of composition depends mainly on your country of origin. 16:06:46 ok, the haskell wikipage confused me, then 16:06:50 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Compose 16:06:59 ..second paragraph 16:07:50 lnostdal: so in conclusion: everything not CL is stupid and should be avoided (: 16:07:59 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:08:13 meh 16:08:16 hey .. it'd still be lisp if it evaled in reverse :} 16:08:27 ..or left-to-right 16:08:48 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.93.143] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:08:52 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:03 lnostdal: Well maybe that there `compose' does not work like . and COMPOSE in alexandria. It looks all backwards to me :) 16:10:42 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068135180.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:44 demmeln: You could use the CLIM listener and say ,show-class-superclasses, and you get a nice graph drawn for you. 16:11:01 [and good evening, everyone] 16:11:16 does anyone know if i need to do any magic to get CFFI to see frameworks installed by macports? 16:11:17 chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:50 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 16:16:11 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:46 beach: thats IS very handy indeed. thanks 16:23:30 No problem. 16:23:53 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:24:20 <_3b> mcspiff: maybe update cffi:*darwin-framework-directories* ? 16:27:00 _3b: i gave up and just created a link to my ~/Library/frameworks/ 16:28:06 dys [n=andreas@p5B314C71.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:37 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B168357.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:30:29 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-131-191.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:31:23 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:38 *demmeln* hates debugging mcclim 16:32:14 heh, I'm just reading that doc 16:33:02 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:34:25 -!- df12 [n=dan@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has left #lisp 16:35:23 df12 [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:43 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:35:58 woot! got movitz to boot. 16:38:11 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:41:01 is there something that's sweeter than parenscript to do javascript with? I'm thinking about developing for the palm pre, but not if isn't going te be in a lispy manner. (palm pre development = html + javascript) 16:42:26 congrats merimus, what are you building? 16:42:31 Brucio-8 [n=Brucio-8@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:43 just lookin to see whats what 16:42:49 okay cool 16:43:01 merimus: how did you boot it? was it easy? or hard? 16:43:05 hmm... beirc still runs. that's nice. 16:43:21 bochs... getting bochs setup properly was the only hard part 16:43:29 bochs? 16:43:41 it's an x86 emulator 16:43:50 ah, you didn't set it in grub or anything of the likes? 16:44:16 nope. emulator makes development easiest 16:44:34 that's true (but it is less cool!) 16:44:45 <_3b> madnificent: does it support flash? 16:45:00 or at least runs modulo some paint/repaint problems... 16:45:24 _3b: I assume it does, but I don't think you'll have permanent storage and access to WebOS from within flash 16:45:28 -!- Brucio-8 [n=Brucio-8@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:45:52 What I'd really like is keyboard/mouse/terminal/networkcard/framebuffer. From there lots of things are possible 16:45:56 <_3b> ah, dunno then 16:46:17 _3b: so for some parts, I could indeed use your superduper flash library :P 16:46:32 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:46:55 but for the code, I would mainly have to use html5 and javascript (and I really really want to code in lisp, so either I'll have to translate stuff, or I should find a lisp that runs in javascript) 16:47:57 parenscript looks quite cool. 16:48:09 df12: and it is also a pita from time to time 16:48:21 Oh? :( 16:49:02 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:49:13 I haven't used it yet, what kind of things are painful in parenscript? 16:49:21 df12: it's fine for web-pages, but it is only a translation with conversion of names (foo-bar becoming fooBar etc) 16:49:58 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:50:12 in general, it is fine, it's just not as transparant as I'd like it to be... perhaps I just tried to access dirty libraries from within it 16:51:08 <_3b> hmm, wonder how much it would cost to upgrade to one of those from my ancient phone :p 16:52:09 madnificent: I see. I was just reading the tutorial/ref -- that is a little funky with mixing javascript and lisp syntax 16:52:46 elias` [n=me@host217-42-207-213.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:52:57 But I can still see the benefit of being able to use macros and sprinkle some of the nicer lisp versions of things in with javascript. As long as you're willing to live with the impure syntax. 16:53:16 madnificent: flash generally supports SOME SORT of permanent storage, doesn't it? 16:53:18 Might have to give it a try as I become more proficient in CL 16:55:02 kanmahotell [i=kanmahot@36-177-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:06 I forgot... What is the packet for gui in lisp? I has asked before, ???-sdl? 16:56:38 <_3b> lispbuilder-sdl? 16:56:49 yes. Thanks. 16:56:53 <_3b> not really gui though, more for drawing graphics yourself 16:57:16 ltk works fairly well 16:58:55 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:19 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-155-74.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:02:26 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-a1e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:04:29 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:04:38 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:17 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 17:07:43 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:10:11 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-1436.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:11:13 so... anyone here familiar with movitz÷ 17:13:10 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-20-220.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:14:39 merimus: Sure, frodef is. 17:15:47 -!- albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has left #lisp 17:15:47 reading through the codebase now 17:16:05 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-237-196.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:16:18 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-237-196.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:35 -!- jao [n=jao@47.Red-81-32-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:17:43 trying to find the vga and ipv4 stuff 17:18:26 TDT [n=TDT@126.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:31 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-a1e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:19:05 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:20:37 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:21:47 I've been battling with this for awhile, a bit confused. I have this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/81457 the goal is to have the scan-to-strings return thelist which I can take the 2nd element (the first match) out of. In a file, I want to have "[foo]" and grab just "foo" out of that, into a variable. I also tried the match all to strings option as well, got a list back, but the parens don't seem to denote what I'm interested in at this point 17:22:17 Some helpful opinions on where I'm screwing up would be appreciated - been at this for over an hour now heh. 17:22:21 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 17:22:58 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:29 <_3b> it returns the register matches in an array as the second value 17:23:32 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C705.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:14 <_3b> so either get it from there, or use something like register-groups-bind 17:24:49 That brings up an interesting question on its own..if 2 variables are being returned from a method, how does one access the 2nd variable returned? 17:25:08 <_3b> clhs nth-value 17:25:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_nth_va.htm 17:25:12 it returns multiple values, not variables 17:26:02 <_3b> or multiple-value-bind, multiple-value-list, multiple-value-call, etc 17:27:01 I remember something about that in PCL, thanks, I'll find it and read up on that again. 17:27:58 <_3b> oh yeah, multiple-value-setq or (setf values) as well 17:28:21 <_3b> (not that (setf values) is actually likely to exist as such) 17:29:50 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:32 -!- df12 [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:33:02 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslee166.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:33 well, fsck stack alignment. If you manage to spill 16 regs, you're doing it wrong. 17:35:38 -!- mikezor_ is now known as mikezor 17:36:17 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:36:18 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:36:35 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 17:37:53 df12 [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:27 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [] 17:43:27 mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 17:44:48 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:48:47 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:48:58 pkhuong: hm :) 17:49:14 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:26 -!- merimus [n=merimus@c-67-171-83-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:50:34 Krystof: what's really sad is that I almost had it. If it weren't for unknown nargs calls... 17:54:13 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:54:21 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:55:14 did you see that I used your string-case in my ELS tutorial? 17:56:15 it turned out that pattern-matching was flavour of the monts 17:56:30 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:36 "month", even. Several people said things along the lines of "CL is lame because it doesn't do pattern-matching" 17:57:07 chris2 [n=chris@p5B168357.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:13 huh? Statically checked pattern matching, I could understand. But straight pattern matching doesn't need to be a language-level construct at all. 17:59:06 maybe I exaggerate 17:59:19 Mark Tarver was there 17:59:28 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-80-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:00:03 I have a feeling that Scott McKay said something like that too, but I may just be misremembering there because he said a lot of things about CL being lame 18:00:28 anyway, thank you for your string-case because it made it easy to say "look, here is run-time-modifiable pattern-matching" 18:01:15 Scott still has the traumatic Dylan experience 18:01:35 "we did it much better, but no-one used it?" 18:02:08 I looked at the slides quickly. Seemed interesting. I might steal some stuff for a couple sbcl hacking tutorials (a very subtle ploy to recruit additional hackers in the student body ;) 18:02:24 'we worked on something much better, but are now back, forced, to use CL, again...' 18:02:45 dylan comes with pattern matching? 18:02:58 ha, not really 18:02:58 -!- Jarvellis is now known as myself 18:03:03 -!- myself is now known as Jarvellis 18:04:06 in Germany there is the GEMA 18:04:21 it collects the fees for the artists 18:04:26 all artists 18:04:38 they wrote their internal software in Dylan 18:04:49 1+ MLOC, IIRC 18:05:11 lispm: I was impressed by that packet filter software; I assume it's never released as open source, has it? 18:05:35 I wonder how it feels to have a software running where only ten other users are on the world 18:06:12 tcr, the BBN thing? I haven't seen that released. Though it might be worth asking them... 18:06:44 I guess they really used it, since BBN was doing lots of core Internet services 18:07:06 I'll ask beach whether he has seen it. It would be really cool to get that working with mclim. (beach, being a professor, has more credentials when asking) 18:07:20 yes, that would be great 18:07:46 he should then ask for the other CLIM software they have ;-) 18:08:27 remember, Scigraph is open sourced and also was from BBN 18:10:04 alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd315151.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:18 another thing that might be interesting to have in McCLIM is Grasper-CL 18:11:29 from SRI 18:11:31 http://www.ai.sri.com/pubs/files/454.pdf 18:12:17 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:12:21 layout and editing of graphs 18:12:32 slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-138-118.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:12:44 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151917.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:13:04 pkhuong: be my guest 18:13:44 http://www.ai.sri.com/~grasper/ 18:13:47 someday I will have enough student labour to actually finish the grand plan of properly integrating pattern-matching method specializers 18:14:10 is there a way to query asdf to see if a system has already been loaded? 18:14:33 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:15:22 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:32 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-22-255.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:16:04 mcspiff: look in modules ? 18:16:38 nuntius: not sure i understand 18:16:55 Ralith_ [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 18:17:19 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 18:17:32 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:17:49 saikat__ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 18:18:04 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/v_module.htm 18:18:12 nuntius: thanks 18:18:56 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:19:06 mcspiff: sorry, that's not what you want. 18:19:17 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 18:19:33 nuntius: its fine, i just restarted the image and loaded the packages by hand 18:20:42 benny` [n=benny@i577A1671.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:03 asdf::*defined-systems* is a hashtable of the systems; it can be queried via system-registered-p. 18:21:16 o thats perfect, thanks 18:21:38 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:21:58 just trying to get lispbuilder-sdl working, considering giving up on lisp for this one 18:23:10 SDL on OS X will likely be a pain in anything but Obj-C, C or C++ (and the latter two only thanks to a mostly hidden hack) 18:23:27 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:23:29 -!- mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:23:40 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:59 pkhuong: after working with this for about 3 hours, thats my conclusion 18:24:11 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:24 pkhuong: although ive learned more about how the system uses frameworks then i ever wanted to know ;-) 18:24:57 JuliibaBy [n=JuliibaB@40.Red-79-152-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:28 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 18:25:28 <_3b> have you tried the lispbuilder-sdl list? they seem to discuss use on mac as if it works regularly 18:26:09 ive poked around, but I havent run into anyone having the same issue but i could poke through a little more 18:26:23 right, balooga(?) mentioned having a working workaround for OS X. 18:26:57 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:27:11 saikat__ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 18:27:12 i know they do have the cocoa helper lib, got that all setup 18:27:59 -!- JuliibaBy [n=JuliibaB@40.Red-79-152-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. -- William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice"] 18:28:21 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:55 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 18:32:33 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-138-118.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:33:14 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:19 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-89-195.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:51 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A151E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:40:15 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-80-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:40:48 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.161.37] has quit ["Log this!"] 18:44:36 *mcspiff* is giving up for now 18:44:39 thanks for the help 18:48:13 -!- kanmahotell [i=kanmahot@36-177-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [] 18:51:16 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:53:09 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:53:42 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:39 http://nopaste.org/p/aimqopRgd <- if someone has a bit of practice with cffi.. 18:55:45 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:56:27 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-1436.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 18:56:28 herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:51 bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:28 <_3b> lisppaste: url 18:57:29 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 18:57:38 <_3b> nickname`: paste there next time ^^ 18:57:54 ok sorry :) 18:58:00 <_3b> nickname`: and does it show anything in the backtrace? 18:58:05 Davse_Bamse_ [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 18:58:25 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:32 <_3b> nickname`: advantage of lisppaste is that it highlights parens, so it is easier to make up for your confusing indentation :) 18:58:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/81461 18:59:28 jao [n=jao@46.Red-79-156-140.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:37 <_3b> nickname`: did you use the link lisppaste suggested? 18:59:59 hmm.. no.. 19:00:10 <_3b> (the /new/lisp part was important, since it sets the default language so it highlights correctly :) 19:00:20 but you can choose to view it as "common lisp code" 19:00:21 <_3b> also would cause the bot to announce it in channel for you 19:00:42 <_3b> yeah, but the more time we spend clicking options, the less time for helping you :) 19:01:29 g06|in [n=Spitfire@cpe-71-74-84-48.insight.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:03 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 19:02:15 it seem the error happens when i call in gtk-init-c 19:03:02 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 19:03:22 mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-742e93b6b24c4984] has joined #lisp 19:03:43 it's a segfault. Looks like a null pointer sneaked in. 19:05:32 <_3b> void gtk_init(int*argc, char***argv) according to gtk docs 19:05:40 oh.. 19:05:53 maybe because i try to read its return value 19:06:06 <_3b> no, count the *s 19:06:22 <_3b> you defined it as (int argc, char** argv) 19:06:57 oh, i forgot a level of indirection 19:06:58 <_3b> so you pass 1 for the first arg, and it interprets it as a pointer, so you get a segfault at #x1 19:07:01 :) 19:07:01 <_3b> right 19:07:13 <_3b> you should probably also be managing memory better 19:08:04 <_3b> either use cffi:with-foreign-* or save the pointers to be freed later 19:08:25 <_3b> depending on whether gtk_init wants to access the memory after it returns 19:08:48 i know i'm leaking it.. but it is because i don't know exactly how(when gtk_init will use it 19:08:54 yes 19:08:55 thankfully the whole first page of memory is mmapped PROT_NONE :) 19:09:40 <_3b> yeah, in that case it would probably still be nice to be able to uninitialize it instead of having to exit the lisp though :) 19:10:03 nickname`: also, are you working on new GTK binding? :D 19:10:25 p_l, i'll bind only the functions i use.. 19:10:31 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:35 heh 19:10:50 <_3b> looks like gtk assumes you are using C style exit to clean up instead of a long-lived image though, that is always annoying :( 19:11:11 *p_l* managed, for the first time today, to finish compilation of a GTK binding. But it was to hackish to run further 19:11:35 *_3b* managed to day to copy some objects from one .swf file to another :) 19:11:40 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:11:51 _3b: nice! :D 19:11:58 p_l, unless there is a well-maintained binding.. i think i'll prefer to wrap what i need directly.. 19:12:00 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [No route to host] 19:12:55 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:12:58 also i've zero expeience with lisp.. i've only skimmed on a book about it :) 19:13:17 <_3b> now i just need to find some free way to create/edit .swf vector and animation data :/ 19:13:33 and it seem to me that the learning curve is steep.. 19:13:50 nickname`: before writing your own, consider using either clg, gtk-server or clisp with its bundled FFI bindings 19:14:02 (the fact that each macro has his own language make each macro very difficult to learn, i think) 19:14:38 fe[nl]ix: of those three, I wouldn't be surprised if only gtk-server worked... 19:14:58 p_l: they all work 19:15:16 fe[nl]ix: wow, never managed to get clg to compile 19:15:23 nickname`, you just have to look up the documentation 19:15:34 (and I don't use clisp) 19:17:23 rvirding [n=rvirding@h129n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:34 -!- df12 [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:19:22 hmmm.... still, test-gtk fails me in ways that humble my reading comprehension 19:20:53 except that now I know where it fails (after 53 levels of backtrace starting with foreing function...) 19:22:42 -!- mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068135180.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:23:00 manusferre [n=ablaert@nezmar.jabbim.cz] has joined #lisp 19:23:49 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:24:48 -!- manusferre [n=ablaert@nezmar.jabbim.cz] has left #lisp 19:25:16 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:25:54 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:00 -!- mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-742e93b6b24c4984] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 19:29:06 p_l: works here 19:29:44 fe[nl]ix: it's test-gtk from cells-gtk3 19:30:06 good news is that it compiled. Good luck finding what exactly did it pass to C runtime to make it segfault ;-) 19:30:26 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B552.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:55 my_username pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81463 19:31:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/81463 <- still the same error 19:31:39 *p_l* is testing clg 19:31:42 -!- jao [n=jao@46.Red-79-156-140.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:31:48 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:05 nickname`: that should be (argc :pointer) not (argc :int) 19:37:19 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:37:43 -!- g06|in [n=Spitfire@cpe-71-74-84-48.insight.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:37:46 oh :| i'm sorry for asking such stupid questions 19:39:01 -!- alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd315151.netvigator.com] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 19:42:19 -!- hnr [n=henry@81.101.138.61] has quit [] 19:43:35 sellout [n=greg@pool-141-156-131-49.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:08 hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:57 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:43 fe[nl]ix annotated #81463 "correct gtk-init" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81463#1 19:50:45 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:53 nickname`: there you are 19:50:54 Hello all. 19:51:23 hi nyef 19:52:28 nickname`: (gtk-init sb-ext:*posix-argv*) 19:52:31 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@80.135.254.144] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! You will assist us!"] 19:52:33 Hrm... I see discussion of clg in the logs. 19:53:04 indeed 19:53:40 *p_l* wonders why there's a cursor named "bogosity" in X11 19:53:59 ... coffee mug? 19:54:24 I found getting clg to compile and figuring out how to get a main loop running took so much of my mental bandwidth that I couldn't be bothered actually using it afterwards. 19:55:06 -!- retupmoca` [n=retupmoc@70.237.122.129] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:55:35 nyef: well, it managed to compile without problems, but main loop is still tricky 19:55:41 nyef: I suppose that using cmucl is not an option, right ? 19:55:42 :D 19:55:47 otoh, cells-gtk compiled properly, and that something 19:55:59 Yeah, it depends on host lisp threading model, host lisp version, gtk version, etc. 19:56:38 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-251-238.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:39 I've found it to work quite well under cmucl and clisp, not so well on sbcl 19:58:13 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:59:49 well, testgtk.lisp from clg seems to work on modern sbcl 20:01:36 there also seems to be a lisp client for the gtk-server thing, which might be worth considering 20:01:44 -!- phytovor is now known as doxtor 20:01:44 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:05:43 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-251-238.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 20:06:02 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.123.224] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:06:12 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 20:07:11 jao [n=jao@113.Red-83-37-137.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:05 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:27 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087FE90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:11 ssttss [n=sissy@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:35 -!- jao [n=jao@113.Red-83-37-137.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:12:04 mm.. lapack says we're not computing complex divisions exactly right 20:12:09 -!- mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.1.19/2008110600]"] 20:12:53 mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:13:48 fundamental [n=fundamen@24-148-122-247.ip.mhcable.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:31 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068135180.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:01 *nyef* got a PS2 network adaptor today. 20:16:37 <_3b> sounds like fun 20:17:06 Hopefully will be. 20:17:20 <_3b> playing games or writing code? 20:17:21 I don't have a linux kit, but it's looking like I might not need one. 20:17:30 I'm thinking SBCL. 20:17:39 <_3b> ah, that would be interesting 20:17:53 -!- roconnor [n=roconnor@69-196-141-93.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:18:02 Yeah, might not happen though. We'll see. 20:18:08 <_3b> main cpu i assume? 20:18:18 (But not see soon, as I'm nowhere near my PS2.) 20:18:47 fe[nl]ix, thanks, i was not there :) 20:19:06 MIPS IV architecture, apparently. I forget if that's 32 or 64 bits. 20:19:42 <_3b> the main cpu? i think it was 64 with wierd 128 bit extensions or something (might be doubling that though) 20:19:50 fe[nl]ix, i have chosen to expose both argc and argv so that there is correspondence between the C and Lisp API 20:20:31 Yeah, I don't know, and won't care until I get home, whenever that is. 20:20:42 jao [n=jao@66.Red-83-36-221.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:50 <_3b> then there is the r3k or whatever it was for IO 20:22:18 *_3b* did non-licenced ps2 dev at one point 20:22:28 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22:45 Hrm. Looks like I need a touch more hardware to get this to work. 20:23:03 -!- ssttss [n=sissy@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:25:11 <_3b> wonder if my ps2 is modchipped... don't think i've even booted it in a few years 20:25:33 I'm fairly sure mine isn't, so I'm going to need something to load stuff onto a memory card. 20:25:41 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@207-237-217-78.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:58 <_3b> oh well, not like i don't have enough stuff to do on PC already anyway :) 20:29:40 Heh. Same here, really, but I was exploring the localish area and happened upon a game store that had the network adaptors and thought "oh shit, I've got to get me some of that!" 20:29:49 <_3b> heh 20:30:15 So now I just need a memory card writer and I should be good to go once I get home. 20:30:47 I should be able to scare up at least a 4gig drive, and possibly something of decent size. 20:31:40 <_3b> cool, probably easier to so stuff on it these days, now that homebrew people have had time to make libs 20:31:43 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:59 ejs [n=eugen@158-196-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:22 So here's a horrible thought: SBCL-os/PS2. 20:32:43 <_3b> probably easier than on pc actually 20:32:45 Not at all likely, but I'm just throwing it out there... 20:33:00 Easier than on PC? Really? 20:33:13 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 20:33:14 nyef: you might as well go for a PS3 20:33:15 I'm not seeing that as likely. 20:33:16 <_3b> well, assuming you don't intend to try to squeeze a lisp onto the IOP 20:33:22 fe[nl]ix: I don't -have- a PS3. 20:33:39 <_3b> that would be a challenge, since it is 1MB ram if i remember right 20:33:41 _3b: But I already have a proof-of-concept for the PC. It demand-pages and everything. 20:34:02 nyef: that is a small problem compared to actually writing SBCL-os/PS3 20:34:14 <_3b> nyef: i mean getting beyond the proff of concept stage 20:34:29 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-6-144.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:34:49 fe[nl]ix: True. But there's the financial cost to be considered, for starters. 20:35:10 *_3b* is of course assuming there are decent IOP drivers available to handle all the actual hardware 20:35:27 <_3b> then you just need to talk to the gfx card, and maybe handle filesystem 20:35:29 _3b: I still don't buy it. Getting beyond proof-of-concept is largely memory management and threading stuff internal to SBCL. 20:36:02 -!- ejs [n=eugen@158-196-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:06 <_3b> ok, we're probably thinking about different things then :) 20:36:38 <_3b> i'll rephrase it to drivers will be easier than on PC 20:36:53 <_3b> since they live on a separate CPU 20:37:05 Sure, that's likely. 20:37:16 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-55-28.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:37:56 But drivers are the -least- of my concerns with bringing SBCL-os up from proof-of-concept to possibly-useful. 20:38:16 <_3b> fair enough 20:39:34 -!- jao [n=jao@66.Red-83-36-221.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:40:02 *_3b* is happy to stay on platforms well isolated from hardware for the moment :) 20:41:22 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:29 illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:36 <_3b> though would be nice it weren't as poorly documented as most hardware :/ 20:42:04 Oh well, can't have everything. 20:42:19 <_3b> yep 20:43:35 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-89-195.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:43:38 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-83-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:47 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 20:44:42 -!- mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068135180.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:46:16 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:48:23 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl6-67-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:51:42 jao [n=jao@36.Red-79-156-141.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:51 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl6-67-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:54:04 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:03 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:58:07 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:59:12 Hun [n=Hun@p4FCF7FA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:20 Just curious, anyone here run Climacs on a regular basis. 21:00:44 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:01:02 I used to, for certain values of "run". 21:01:38 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-134-212.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:02:21 Just wondering whether it's a workable alternative yet. 21:02:30 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 21:02:34 I don't see it available as a debian package. 21:02:43 It's not that buggy anymore, but it has few features that Emacs+SLIME lacks. 21:02:46 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 21:03:02 So probably not worth running unless you're also interested in hacking on it. 21:03:22 I like the idea of inserting arbitrary objects into the buffer, I just hope that extends beyond just images though. 21:03:36 Yeah, images aren't special at all. 21:03:58 Athas pasted "The image support code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81466 21:04:16 My dream is that someday we'll be able to edit mathematical equations in textbook-format right in an emacs buffer. 21:04:20 The default object visualisation is really boring (just PRINT-OBJECT), but it's easy to define new ones. 21:04:29 There is Texmacs for that. 21:04:38 Yeah, there is Texmacs. 21:04:55 Problem is that Texmacs has a horrible interface, and clobbers up what emacs users expect. 21:05:55 i.e., dynamic toolbars are just a horrible idea. 21:05:56 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:06:17 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:06:41 I agree. Climacs is a bit more general than Emacs, in that it doesn't just operate on buffers, so you could theoretically make a more advanced WYSIWYG-mode of interaction. 21:07:26 Yeah, or WYSIWYM (like Lyx). 21:07:54 But, it would be nice to deviate away from character-cells for everything. 21:08:29 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:08:36 -!- fundamental [n=fundamen@24-148-122-247.ip.mhcable.com] has left #lisp 21:09:05 Indeed, which is why the fundamental interface unit in Climacs is not a buffer, but a view. 21:09:15 Of which the most common view is, of course, a buffer-view. 21:09:32 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:09:34 Cool. Sounds like it's worth looking into then. 21:09:54 Is it sort of a model-view-controller paradigm> 21:09:56 ? 21:10:16 Sort of, but it's not constrained by the arbitrary set of rules that normally define MVC. 21:10:22 It follows the rules where they make sense. 21:10:27 right 21:10:33 Which is the Lisp Way :) 21:11:47 http://80.161.87.214/apache2-default/definitionswindow.png is a crude example of how two buffer-views can be very different. 21:13:05 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 21:13:06 The difficult part, of course, is to define a new set of interation commands when you want to make some clever view (and maybe even a non-buffer underlying data structure). 21:13:30 For "normal" views (modes in Emacs), you inherit a huge bulk of text manipulation commands by default. 21:14:59 Athas: So those are two separate views of the same buffer? 21:15:15 Yes. 21:15:46 That's pretty cool. 21:16:22 That could be used for source code and WYSIWYG views of document files. 21:16:54 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-55-28.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:17:05 Indeed, and I suspected that would be a more useful feature in the short term. 21:17:26 Since pure WYSIWYG seems to engender horrible interfaces (no idea whether that's inherent in the paradigm itself, though). 21:18:10 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:51 Well, I think it depends on what you mean by WYSIWYG. For instance, I think word processors are not very usable for their purpose. 21:18:59 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:12 Most of the time you either want a pure desktop publishing tool or a pure document editor. 21:21:34 The nice thing about WYSIWYM interfaces is that the user doesn't edit the display features of the text directly, but he/she edits a semantically rich abstraction of those display features. 21:22:57 Hrm... There's a PS3 memory card adaptor that apparently can be used from windows, but it sounds like it can't be used for PS2 cards due to some protection scheme. 21:23:23 oh fuck, kernel panic 21:23:44 -!- demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig121.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:23:47 The interface is constrained to the semantics of what the user is currently working on. And understanding the interface requires understand in the semantics of the document being edited, which the user should have. 21:23:53 -!- jao [n=jao@36.Red-79-156-141.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:24:46 of course, that's only a win when the "semantics of the document" are simpler than the displayed representation, so that the computer can do some useful work for you. 21:25:48 hefner: Can you think of an example when that isn't the case? 21:26:56 -!- Pavitra [n=benjamin@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:26:56 pavitra [n=benjamin@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:56 I'll give it some thought. 21:27:00 Oh, you mean like editing images? Then I agree with you. 21:27:35 that seems like a good example. 21:27:35 With an image there really aren't any structured semantics to make use of. 21:27:35 uhm, emacs just froze while doing something in the debugger of lisp 21:27:40 (Though, with a subset, like vector graphics, that is no longer the case.) 21:27:58 Drawing diagrams, etc. 21:28:19 <_3b> Shapeshifter: hit C-g a few times maybe? 21:28:22 Shapeshifter: usually you can kill the inferior lisp to unfreeze emacs 21:28:46 ah. I just killed emacs... 21:29:17 Shapeshifter: you may say a prayer now 21:29:30 ^^ 21:29:50 -!- Gertm [n=user@mail.dzine.be] has quit [Success] 21:29:52 *clap* *clap* *clap* 21:29:59 *p_l* murmurs prayer 21:30:22 ... that was hermetic reference even for me... 21:30:27 *p_l* goes to make coffee 21:33:18 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:39:07 hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:39:22 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:17 dat [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:22 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 21:40:57 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:44:09 Gertm [n=user@mail.dzine.be] has joined #lisp 21:47:22 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 21:48:03 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has left #lisp 21:48:13 <_3b> well, that's different... my code broke due to using a dependency from git instead of from the release tarball :/ 21:48:27 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-6-200.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 21:48:38 _3b: what library ? 21:48:44 <_3b> salza2 21:49:46 <_3b> hmm, still breaking after a bit though 21:53:18 gigamonkey [n=user@216.112.183.3.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:27 Greetings. 21:53:49 hey, gigamonkey 21:53:54 <_3b> now the question is, did i have a modified salza2 when this code was working, or am i using the wrong version of my code, does it not like linux, or did it just never work 21:54:58 *gigamonkey* is killing time in JFK airport 21:55:25 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:53 -!- Corun [n=Corun@wavelan139.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:56:29 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:35 <_3b> is it normal for slime to refuse to let me click on backtrace entries the first few times i try? 22:00:02 qwrgw0 [n=qwrgw1@93.180.19.135] has joined #lisp 22:00:16 -!- parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:00:26 parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:51 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-6-200.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:01:04 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-8.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:07:03 <_3b> does this work for anyone? (salza2:compress-data (make-array 65000 :initial-element 0 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) 'salza2:zlib-compressor) 22:07:08 <_3b> on sbcl in particular 22:09:05 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:09:10 «The value 32768 is not of type (MOD 32659).» 22:10:07 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:10:30 <_3b> what platform? 22:11:18 *_3b* wonders if sbcl got pickier about types like that recently 22:11:50 linux/x86 22:11:54 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-83-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:11:55 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-120-53.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:12:24 <_3b> ok, so it isn't just from switching to 64bit then 22:13:11 CCL works 22:13:45 <_3b> where 'works' means relies on undefined behavior to produce the expected result i suspect :) 22:13:54 phf [n=phf@c-98-231-211-226.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:10 -!- Hun [n=Hun@p4FCF7FA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:14:32 to be more precise, on CCL that returns a vector instead of signaling an error 22:14:39 don't know if the result is correct 22:16:55 <_3b> could try (count 0 (chipz:decompress nil 'chipz:zlib (salza2:compress-data (make-array 65000 :initial-element 0 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) 'salza2:zlib-compressor))) 22:17:09 <_3b> for a sanity check, but i'm guessing it is correct 22:17:52 65000 22:18:43 *_3b* blames sbcl for getting even stricter than it has been :) 22:18:55 *_3b* is too lazy to find an old version to actually test that theory though 22:19:36 <_3b> since that declaration looks like a typo, and has been there since first checkin of salza2 according to git 22:21:55 ... 32659 isn't prime, is it? 22:22:27 <_3b> dunno, that sort of thing is what makes me unsure about it being a typo though 22:22:47 32659 = 11 * 2969 22:23:23 Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:24:08 <_3b> ok, looks like 1.0.21 doesn't complain either 22:25:03 -!- herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:25:03 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:25:03 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:25:03 -!- asdf1234 [i=812131fb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1579b62bba5b58ed] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:25:03 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:25:03 -!- pjb [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:25:03 -!- xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:25:03 -!- enn [n=eli@codeanddata.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:25:03 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:25:08 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:25:20 _3b: start bisecting 22:25:27 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h129n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 22:25:40 xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 22:25:40 enn [n=eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:50 <_3b> fe[nl]ix: sbcl you mean? 22:25:51 you should be able to find the wrong commit in about 12 steps 22:26:02 _3b: yes 22:26:03 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-105-150.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 22:26:06 <_3b> it isn't wrong, salza2 looks buggy to me 22:26:08 -!- xristos is now known as Guest86960 22:26:36 herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:36 milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has joined #lisp 22:26:36 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 22:26:36 asdf1234 [i=812131fb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1579b62bba5b58ed] has joined #lisp 22:26:36 pjb [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:36 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:37 <_3b> salza2 declares something (integer 0 32658) then sets it to 32768 22:27:03 <_3b> so if anything, older sbcl is buggy for not noticing that :) 22:28:12 -!- Jarv2 is now known as GothJarv 22:28:35 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:03 hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:48 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 22:34:15 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:35:19 jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:02 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:48 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:42:59 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-1436.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:43:19 -!- kejsaren 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