00:01:44 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:02:00 scroll up for the actual error 00:02:29 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:04:21 gigamonkey: where you looking for me the other day? 00:04:34 Quadrescence: yes, look for the WARNING among the compiler output. that's just the "compile warned, now what" 00:04:49 that error message could be a lot clearer... 00:04:50 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:04:50 slyrus: yeah, I think so. 00:05:24 slyrus: Do I recall correctly that you've got some experience with (La)TeX? 00:05:38 yes, some. 00:05:44 <3 latex 00:05:52 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:06:11 yeah, latex gloves ftw 00:06:16 gigamonkey: I managed to automagically generate latex from lisp s-expressions for my thesis 00:06:20 Have you ever used TrueType or OpenType fonts w/LaTeX? 00:07:24 hrm... I think I played around with some truetype fonts once, but don't remember the details 00:07:24 kpreid: Like this? --> http://codepad.org/oUpKNye5 00:07:34 Quadrescence: yes 00:07:45 gigamonkey: Is there a reason you want to use *Type fonts? Is there a particular font you want? 00:07:46 Quadrescence: if you want to ignore the warning you can ACCEPT 00:08:10 kpreid: If everything breaks, I will put the blame on you! 00:08:29 (I kid, of course.) 00:08:30 Quadrescence: I want to typeset my book in LaTeX and I imagine Apress is going to have some opinions about what fonts to use. 00:08:33 slyrus: create a page on cliki! I've wanted this for ages! 00:08:49 madnificent: which part? 00:08:55 gigamonkey: You can use the generic Times/Courier if you want. 00:09:00 (and very easily) 00:09:00 slyrus: ah. I was hoping you knew all about it and then, since you're local, I could bribe you with beer and food to get you to show me how to do it. 00:09:04 slyrus: latex from lisp s-expressions 00:09:27 madnificent: ok, that's part of my smarkup package. perhaps I can gin up some documentation. 00:09:33 Quadrescence: Yeah. I've done that. In fact I've also done it with arbitrary fonts using XeLaTeX. 00:09:45 gigamonkey: let me take a look later this evening and see if i've got anything lying around. 00:09:53 *gigamonkey* also generates LaTeX from sexps. 00:09:56 gigamonkey: Ah. 00:10:06 if not, perhaps I can fake it and con you into buying me beer on false pretenses 00:10:10 Quadrescence: but I want to use the microtypographic features of pdfTeX 00:10:19 wait, we aren't talking about typesetting latex-code? :( 00:10:56 gigamonkey: Have you not been able to do that with times/courier? If not, I have good news. :> 00:11:01 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:11:08 gigamonkey: I'm pretty sure there's a version of LaTeX that can use OpenType 00:11:16 I remember reading about it somewhere 00:11:21 google probably knows 00:13:22 Quadrescence: I have been able to use Times/Helvetica/Courier and any other standard Postscript fonts. 00:13:32 Or the ones packaged up by PSNSS or whatever it's called. 00:13:47 Ralith: I think that's XeTeX. But it can't do microtypography. 00:13:56 microtypography? 00:14:07 Hanging punctuation and other things to make pages look better. 00:14:14 It really looks nice. 00:14:41 ah, the subtle stuff that makes LaTeX so awesome 00:15:02 Well, it's *extra-subtle* stuff on top of the basic subtle stuff that makes LaTeX so often. 00:16:06 -!- sbahra is now known as scrotum 00:16:46 gigamonkey: Hopefully your publisher will me man enough to let you use latex sans *Type 00:18:09 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 00:18:39 -!- Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:18:44 Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:21:15 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:21:39 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:21:39 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:22:08 Hmm, this asdf-install is kind of "addicting" in a sense. I wonder what I should install now that I've got mcclim and climacs 00:22:55 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 00:24:48 heheh, climacs 00:25:20 That is one of the best names I've heard in a while. 00:26:14 Quadrescence: Dunno about that. I don't really want to use Computer Modern and Times/Courer/Helvetica may also be a bit played out. 00:26:24 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 00:26:47 gigamonkey: Well, there are other fonts. In fact, just the other day, I was playing around and found some really nice ones. 00:27:02 don't use helvetica, whatever you do 00:27:05 Computer modern is pretty dry, and times/etc is pretty Microsofty. :/ 00:27:14 gigamonkey: latin modern! ;P 00:27:23 no, no, times NEW ROMAN is Microsofty 00:27:37 -!- yakman_ [n=bot@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 00:27:57 (it is a copy of times, apparently; all early windows fonts were copies of popular ones commissioned by MS) 00:28:17 well, use comic sans for sure 00:28:35 ... 00:28:52 there was an interview with the guy who designed that in the guardian recently 00:28:55 I recall someone saying how a certain *important* letter got typeset in comic sans... 00:28:57 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@ip70-162-187-21.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:57 he was properly repentant 00:30:19 there was comic sans on some coins 00:30:27 -!- ianmcorv1dae|alt [n=ianmcorv@ip70-162-184-138.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:30:36 real coins made by actual governments? 00:30:47 or just washing machine tokens or something? 00:31:01 http://web.archive.org/web/20060210170008/http://www.cnw.ca/fr/releases/archive/June2004/22/c7529.html 00:31:09 rsynnott: hell, the letter I heard of was sent from Her Majesty's Royal Court... 00:31:46 oh, no 00:32:23 imagine getting a declaration of war typeset in comic sans ;_; 00:32:36 hrgh [n=ulf@h-85-24-219-170.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 00:32:55 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 00:34:59 oddly, the designer also did Trebuchet, which is quite nice if rather boring 00:37:51 it was meant for MS Bob... 00:38:28 WHICH WAS WRITTEN IN LISP 00:38:33 back on topic! Yay! 00:38:42 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.208.138] has quit [] 00:38:46 -!- divz [n=divz@117.98.2.108] has quit ["leaving"] 00:40:57 is that why it failed? 00:41:16 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:41:23 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 00:42:25 stassats`: which, lisp? 00:42:35 stassats`: MS Bob? No, MS Bob would fail in any language 00:42:38 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has left #lisp 00:42:45 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:42:49 (Microsoft Bob was actually rather successful as applications in that genre went) 00:44:40 talking about fonts, http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9144/helppppp.png 00:44:54 ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.158] has joined #lisp 00:45:29 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 00:45:43 eek 00:46:07 wow, that's almost awesome. 00:46:47 ... OH FUCK 00:47:13 *hefner* is more interested in what that is source to 00:47:35 Is that not what font you all use? 00:47:57 hrgh_ [n=ulf@h-88-48.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 00:48:00 Quadrescence: I'd get eyesight problems from that... 00:48:03 hefner: Customized source to some code in PAIP 00:48:24 p_l: But look how nice and tall and sexy those parens are. 00:48:44 the "#'eql" is VERY classy-looking 00:48:46 :) 00:48:56 oh my Quadrescence 00:48:56 yeah 00:48:59 -!- ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.158] has left #lisp 00:50:13 Or you can use style #2: http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7518/cuteemacs.png 00:50:34 ;) 00:50:43 more readable :D 00:50:50 bit too small 00:51:06 Quadrescence: nah, i use this font --- http://stassats.dyndns.org/img/scr.png 00:51:22 stassats`: That is incredible. 00:51:58 Looks like the stuff I scrawled onto the side of hefner's hou--wait. 00:52:12 -!- tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:52:18 tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:50 on fonts, a friend forwarded this: http://www.arcavia.com/Software/ProgFont/glyphs/Letter100.gif 00:55:05 -!- scrotum is now known as sbahra 00:55:06 on fonts, a friend forwarded this: http://www.arcavia.com/Software/ProgFont/ 00:55:14 disregard previou slink 00:55:59 *sigh*' 00:56:32 that actually looks like another language (in the example) 00:56:54 yeah, not lisp but java 00:57:04 well, i didnt mean that, but ok :) 00:57:14 it looks like programming language designed for one of the fictional languages that do not use roman alphabet... 00:57:18 argh, that's unreadable 00:58:02 (I'm reminded of that thing that Palm Pilots used to force you to use 00:58:18 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 00:59:13 -!- hrgh [n=ulf@h-85-24-219-170.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:59:29 -!- Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:59:37 rsynnott: graffiti I think they called it. 01:01:03 Sikander [n=soemraws@ip98-185-236-17.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:43 I have the feeling his theory of what kind of things should be regular and what distinct is poorly chosen 01:09:52 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2EEBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:12:00 I'm quite impressed with the (tiny) fon that my iphone ssh client useds 01:12:06 but I'm not sure what it is,eexactly 01:12:10 very readable in small sizes, though 01:14:20 Hi guys, I've installed clx-0.7.3 and am running SBCL. Everything compiles and runs fine, but the gl-test stuff in the demo directory doesn't. 01:14:26 any freetype bindings around 01:14:41 I do a (require 'clx) and then (load "gl-test") which goes fine 01:14:55 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 01:15:01 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 01:15:29 but when I do (in-package gl-test) (test #'anim) I get Connection refused 01:15:39 Can anyone offer insights? 01:15:52 use cl-opengl? 01:16:05 ... 01:16:36 stassats`: ok... is the gl part of clx not working at the moment? 01:17:17 I tried to run the (test #'anim :display x) where x is 0 or 1 as well (should be 0) but result is the same 01:17:41 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 01:17:48 yes, though it's much longer than "moment" 01:17:56 ah... 01:18:32 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:21:15 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:30 stassats`: the connection-refused-error makes me think that it's just an issue with addressing the wrong host or display, or not having the right permissions 01:22:43 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 01:22:44 However, I have xhost +local: 01:22:51 and xhost +localhost 01:23:53 though you could get examples working, i don't think clx's gl is ready for prime time 01:24:37 Ok, so cl-opengl is the way to go? 01:24:40 -!- iceknight [n=iceknigh@nas-12-053.dialup.farlep.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:24:57 danlei [n=user@pD9E2EEBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:28 i haven't used neither myself, but i'd definitely consider using cl-opengl 01:26:49 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:27:32 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:39 well, cl-opengl doesn't compile completely here... D'oh! 01:29:37 whats the issue 01:29:52 ..works for me.. 01:30:59 Sikander: There were two things I had to do to get the CLX gl tests to run. One of them was to change how the display was opened to use OPEN-DEFAULT-DISPLAY, and the other was to change the hard-coded window depth. Unfortunately, CLX's gl really isn't ready for prime time, or any other broadcast time period. No texture mapping, for starters. 01:31:35 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:32:04 nyef: thanks for the tips. I'll try cl-opengl instead then... if I can get it to compile 01:32:08 -!- hrgh_ [n=ulf@h-88-48.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit ["leaving"] 01:32:12 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:26 So in SBCL I type (require 'cl-opengl) 01:33:42 then see a whole bunch of compiling stuff roll by... 01:34:30 and then a debugger message on asdf:compile-failed saying: erred while invoking # on # 01:34:44 trying to recompile gives the same 01:35:06 I can try to accept, but then I get the same message on the file "opengl" and "rasterization" etc 01:35:38 find the error 01:36:10 yes, working on it... 01:36:19 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 01:37:21 Got it: asserted type double-float conflicts with derived type (values double-float &optional) 01:37:59 this happens in (defglfun ("glColor4f" COLOR-4F) ...) 01:38:16 Wait, I said it wrong 01:38:27 asserted type single-float conflicts with derived type (values double-float &optional) 01:39:34 This happens all over the place actually, not only with glColor4f 01:40:20 I'll try the cl-opengl from the repository 01:41:12 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:41:38 My oh my oh my oh my, climacs started up. :o 01:44:12 polang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:16 -!- polang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:46:33 polang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:31 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 01:49:00 -!- polang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:49:13 polang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:05 slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-151-161.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:51:07 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 01:51:47 -!- polang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:54:42 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:55:05 Same asserted type vs derived type problem with the files in the cl-opengl repository... 01:55:19 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-16-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:55:27 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-16-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:11 sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:57:50 Well, this is no fun. I tried recompiling cffi and then recompiling cl-opengl. Cffi is ok, cl-opengl gives the same problem 01:58:43 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 02:03:53 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:05:02 Ok, I give up, no cl-opengl for me 02:06:28 that's the spirit. 02:06:31 Hunh. Looks like it's been almost exactly five months (Dec 31 -> May 31) from the time I built my kernel to the time I discover I need to rebuild it. 02:06:34 Yep 02:07:06 Sikander: You realize that the next step in this progression is to either use one of the otehr opengl bindings out there or to write your own, right? 02:07:45 nyef: heheh, actually, the next step is finding out why on my system the asserted value is different from the derived value! 02:08:01 nyef: eh, asserted v derived type 02:08:15 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-16-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:08:59 Well, your first hint is that (values whatever) is usually a function result type. 02:09:44 d'oh, wait, I think I've got it 02:09:56 Stale fasls? 02:10:00 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-16-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:42 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:11:14 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:32 polang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:34 parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:39 Haha, I was an idiot... I had (setf *READ-DEFAULT-FLOAT-FORMAT* 'DOUBLE-FLOAT) 02:12:01 So the derived type apparently is then double-float, while the asserted type is single-float 02:12:04 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 02:12:06 Now it compiled 02:12:10 You know, I've only ever messed with *R-D-F-F* once. 02:12:25 Well, this is the first time for me too 02:12:31 And most likely the last! 02:12:31 And that was to bind it to 'single-float, as a paranoia measure. 02:13:02 Wait, isn't it by default 'single-float? 02:13:24 clhs *r-d-f-f* 02:13:25 *READ-DEFAULT-FLOAT-FORMAT*: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_rd_def.htm 02:13:41 ... Yes, it is. 02:14:48 So that makes you incredibly paranoid? 02:15:08 -!- parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:15:20 parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:39 Well, I knew -I- wasn't going to mess with it, at least not any time soon, but some other library might, or I might in the future. Easier to bind it and thus not have to worry about it. 02:16:24 My use case is in annotation 1 of paste 80998. 02:16:25 minion: paste 80998? 02:16:26 Paste number 80998: "A CLX patch" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/80998 02:16:40 -!- klausi_ [n=klausi@port-92-193-70-54.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:16:52 If you're planning on working with .obj files with 3d models in them, it might help. 02:18:05 Actually, the reason I messed with it, was because I was reading some doubles from an ascii file (there were some small values that didn't fit in a single) 02:18:26 And apparently, I took the stupid route: I globally reset *R-D-F-F*. 02:18:59 -!- sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has left #lisp 02:19:01 Well, I actually blame cl-opengl for not using the explicit read syntax. 02:19:44 Or using an :around on compile-op to rebind it. 02:19:49 Hmm, maybe I should submit it, so they can consider whether it's a bug or so 02:21:01 Well, it's good that I bumped into it 02:21:48 -!- polang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:25:16 Okay, I'm going to wish you the best of luck with what you're working on and disappear for the evening. 02:25:16 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 02:25:22 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:52 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-16-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:26:55 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-16-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:48 jEh, so now I have cl-opengl running, what do I need to do to get hardware accel? 02:28:04 When I run glxgears from the shell, it gives me 4000FPS 02:28:18 When I run the example function (gears), it gives me <3FPS 02:28:23 -!- parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:28:40 parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:18 Sikander: I'm not familiar with cl-opengl, but I think you shouldn't have to do anything; OpenGL calls are OpenGL calls. 02:29:26 the system worries about how to render them. 02:29:42 Ralith: That's what I assume. But that isn't what's happening... 02:30:50 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 02:31:01 Interestingly, the gears rotate, but it doesn't "repaint". So while rotating, the gears become discs 02:31:14 -!- parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:31:45 Sikander: perhaps there's something wrong with the demo? 02:31:49 Sikander: perhaps you're in a bizarre mode which both draws wrong *and* does software fallback :-) 02:32:31 Well... I have no idea about the demo... 02:33:41 Sikander: make sure cl-opengl loads the right gl library 02:33:55 xristos: Working on that now, thanks 02:34:28 ah, I have freeglut. Doesn't it work with cl-opengl? 02:34:37 it does 02:35:33 xristos: How can i check which library cl-opengl loads? 02:35:37 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:36:01 you can find the foreign library declaration in the source 02:36:15 and change it to full path of the one you want loaded 02:36:36 like the one that comes with binary nvidia drivers 02:37:58 Ok, then I have a question about this: if i switch video card (from nvidia to intel), the libraries are symlinked automatically to the correct libraries. Will I have to recompile cl-opengl every time when I switch? 02:38:15 no 02:38:23 what 02:38:46 nuntius [i=Daniel@118.37.165.172] has joined #lisp 02:40:41 But the nvidia libraries are symlinked to the default opengl libraries. Shouldn't cl-opengl just use those then? 02:40:59 Sikander: the declaration is in gl/library.lisp here 02:41:03 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-5.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:41:15 or perhaps this is not the problem at all 02:41:27 (:unix (:or "libGL.so" "libGL.so.2" "libGL.so.1") 02:42:00 I'd use lsof to see which one the sbcl process had open 02:42:01 xristos: yes and libGL.so is a symlink pointing to the nvidia binaries 02:42:15 Sikander: then it should be fine 02:42:33 symlinks are standard for library installs 02:42:38 Ok, I'll verify with lsof 02:43:45 lsof reports that sbcl uses the nvidia ones 02:44:37 is your DISPLAY variable set to something sane in the sbcl process? 02:44:38 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:44:46 (just in case you were playing with it earlier) 02:45:29 hefner: there is no DISPLAY or *DISPLAY* 02:45:43 -!- birdsbite [n=user@74.196.9.26] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:45:54 D'oh! I don't understand this. I restarted sbcl, tried it again and now I have hardware acceleration... 02:45:58 but the output looks bad 02:47:08 The gears are not gears, rather solid discs (well, with holes in them) I don't see the "teeth" 02:47:29 maybe that's just the demo 02:47:34 missing glClear? wrong bitmask to it? 02:47:58 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 02:48:15 The teapot displays fine as well, but the background is a copy of some random part of my screen 02:48:30 sounds like glClear isn't being done or taking effect 02:48:46 do the demos include a glGetError? if so, add one and print the results 02:50:19 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-151-161.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:50:29 birdsbite [n=user@74.196.9.26] has joined #lisp 02:50:58 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-4bcdbd5bbdcc967b] has joined #lisp 02:51:07 does anyone know of cffi freetype bindings ? 02:51:20 then if it reports there are errors, sprinkle glGetError in more places until you see where the error arises 02:52:04 kpreid: I'm not sure I understand where I would add the glGetError 02:52:35 xristos: in mcclim, autogenerated somehow 02:52:49 (mcclim/Experimental/freetype/freetype-cffi.lisp) 02:52:56 thanks 02:54:17 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-34-153.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:56:09 kpreid: What I did now, was run gears, and after that do (gl:get-error) which returns :zero 02:56:49 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:47 Sikander: I don't know how your binding works -- you might be out of the opengl context that way. put the check inside the drawing loop 02:59:50 hi xristos 03:02:43 kpreid: Ok, right after the call to (gl:clear ...) I put a (gl:get-error) which is printed on the screen as INVALID-VALUE 03:02:47 hey manic 03:03:22 have you worked any more on your GL Listener? 03:05:06 its done but its tied to osx for the moment 03:05:16 i use core text and carbon 03:05:30 i'm trying to add freetype 03:05:51 yeah, I have a similar problem with using wgl stuff 03:06:43 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has left #lisp 03:07:30 basically i'm thinking of requiring clozure cl 03:07:54 that's ok, I'm half stuck to franz 03:07:54 that way i can scrap carbon, do the bits in cocoa for osx and try to make it work on windows too 03:08:03 the original version of the one i wrote was getting crufty, so i have started over 03:09:07 so what are you doing exactly 03:09:15 still working with mirai ? 03:09:18 before I was computing the view as paint time, now I'm working on a caching mechanism 03:09:30 chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:34 i still don't have the new mirai devo 03:09:52 and the new mirai is alpha and isn't working to well on vista 03:11:14 kpreid: Yep, I tried it with the glut-teapot, gl:get-error just before the gl:clear and one just after. First one gives zero, second gives invalid-value 03:11:16 but it's basically your idea, except that I only render when things change, no code from yours though 03:11:23 ok 03:11:27 Sikander: There you go then! 03:11:41 manic12: i did the whole thing as an immediate mode gui 03:11:53 Sikander: So something's wrong with the bitfield passed to glClear. 03:12:25 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-60-191.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:14:15 the topology I generate from the solid modeler i render as display lists currently, it would be too slow otherwise, but the buttons and things are drawn immediate mode, but that is not a requirement 03:14:45 no i mean immediate mode gui in the sense that everything is rendered at 60fps 03:14:56 ah 03:14:57 not immediate opengl mode 03:15:09 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:15:27 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has left #lisp 03:15:52 anyways got to sleep 03:15:52 kpreid: In the demo, both the color and depth buffers were cleared. But gl:clear errors on clearing the depth buffer. When only clearing the color buffer, it works fine 03:15:57 ok 03:16:16 Sikander: Then your depth-buffer bitmask is bogus. 03:16:44 kpreid: Do you mean in general (i.e. in the libraries) or the ffi bindings are wrong? 03:17:00 prxq_ [n=mommer@g226207036.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:17:01 kpreid: what I mean is, is this a driver issue, or a bindings issue? 03:17:10 The latter, probably. Maybe you're using a different header file than matches the library? 03:17:53 sure you have a visual with a Z buffer? 03:18:16 hefner: "If a buffer is not present, then a glClear directed at that buffer has no effect." 03:18:22 ah. 03:18:37 "GL_INVALID_VALUE is generated if any bit other than the four defined bits is set in mask." 03:18:57 That's why I blame the bitmask constants. 03:19:06 kpreid: that makes sense 03:19:42 I've compiled and generated working C code using the headers, so I can't imagine that being the error. Nevertheless, I'll check again... 03:20:08 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:22:39 it looks consistent with the headers (on my machine and whatever slightly stale version of cl-opengl I have, anyway) 03:22:54 kpreid: I'm not sure that the constants are auto-generated: I see a constants.lisp file in the gl/ subdir 03:22:59 -!- rtra_ [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:24:53 depth-buffer is hard-coded as #100 while color-buffer is #4000. This matches my gl.h file as well 03:25:26 Eh, that's #x100 and #x4000 of course 03:26:21 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:42 Well, I'll try to figure this out later. 03:28:38 -!- prxq [n=mommer@g228078003.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:32:14 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:35:42 johncl [n=memet@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:32 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 03:36:40 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:37:38 hi there. kinda new to lisp. using SBCL 1.0.28. Can someone help me set a breakpoint? 03:38:06 manic12_ [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:14 right 03:41:15 -!- johncl [n=memet@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has left #lisp 03:44:17 Well, I'm glad he gave us four whole minutes. 03:44:47 It's too bad we failed to help him. I'm sure the Lisp community will mourn losing him... 03:47:19 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:52 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-215.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:51:37 deylen [n=deylen@94-193-119-157.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:52:17 aja: :) 03:52:25 -!- deylen [n=deylen@94-193-119-157.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 03:53:36 cp2: I blame myself, really. I spent too long thinking "why the hell doesn't he just google it?" and missed the window. Won't happen again. 03:54:07 i would hope not! 03:54:20 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:09:04 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:36 D.C. Hacker Meetup guys; sorry, I forgot your IRC handles, but it's been really nice meeting you! 04:09:47 hope you made it home 04:11:00 I really one do this again; beer + programming goes really well together :-) 04:11:26 -!- rlonstein [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit ["leaving"] 04:12:03 heh, lame-hat discovers shell-coding; http://androidbutnotparanoid.blogspot.com/2009/05/dynamically-generating-and-executing.html 04:12:15 -!- xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:12:28 applies it to javascript :-P 04:13:11 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-4-43-193.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:47 rlonstein [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:48 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:21:25 p0a [n=irc@athedsl-382776.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 04:21:39 Hello, what is the process of writing lisp libraries that use C libraries called? 04:21:42 Good morning (at least until Vodafone disconnects me) 04:21:52 p0a: FFI? 04:21:58 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-4-43-193.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Going To Kill The Cat -- LOL No I'm Not Just Sleep"] 04:22:10 p0a: writing alien bindings, or foreign-function interface 04:22:22 fusss: dc huh, i might have to go about and drink magical programming liquids with this group 04:22:34 plage: why would vodafone do that? you're right, it's FFI. I'm looking information about it, does anyone know any good sources or should I just google? 04:22:56 p0a: because I am at a hotel, and I am past the 24h I paid for. 04:22:59 cp2: a very disparate group, met one lisper, and met the second right before I left 04:23:13 heh 04:23:17 plage: ... you're more than 24 hours on a computer... on vacation in a hotel? 04:23:26 on IRC??? lol 04:23:36 Who said something about vacation. 04:23:40 no, he has stayed in the hotel for longer than 24 hours 04:23:50 (he only paid for 24) 04:24:00 cp2: I don't think that's what he meant though 04:24:37 pretty sure he means that 04:24:45 vodafone is probably gonna disconnect him soon 04:24:55 because he has gone past his welcome/bill 04:25:07 he's probably disconnected already so it doesn't matter 04:25:14 heh 04:26:06 -!- plage [n=user@83.224.64.17] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:27:05 is ffi: official in common lisp? 04:28:48 p0a: every Common Lisp implementation has a means to interface with C libraries at the function call level. 04:28:58 small toy Lisps usually don't, and one needs to hack an FFI unto them 04:29:38 it's not specified by the ANSI Common Lisp standard, but it's a defacto standard. CFFI even abstracts that platform specific stuff away in to one API. 04:30:44 thanks all the information I needed :-) 04:32:59 p0a: ^^ you were right 04:34:44 ;-) 04:36:01 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:36:21 djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:02 nite 04:37:04 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 04:38:39 Lectus [n=chatzill@189.105.107.32] has joined #lisp 04:44:44 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E47DAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:43 air` [n=user@68.51.172.137] has joined #lisp 04:57:01 Reading about FFI, I realize why struct pointers in C have equal width 04:57:25 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-5.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:58:08 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:59:46 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 05:02:39 -!- _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E453E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:05:24 -!- air` [n=user@68.51.172.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:10:34 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 05:12:16 jmbr [n=jmbr@243.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 05:12:26 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-4bcdbd5bbdcc967b] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- Orest_ [n=orest@p4FC443FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-78-239.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- housel [n=housel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- dostoyevsky [i=sck@195.49.138.42] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:26 -!- drforr [n=drforr@pool-173-55-19-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:12:37 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-4bcdbd5bbdcc967b] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 Orest_ [n=orest@p4FC443FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-78-239.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 housel [n=housel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 dostoyevsky [i=sck@195.49.138.42] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 drforr [n=drforr@pool-173-55-19-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:10 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:13:25 sad0ur_ [n=sad0ur@84.42.251.245] has joined #lisp 05:14:43 p0a: because they're pointers? 05:15:52 -!- ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["off!"] 05:17:00 galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:43 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:25:18 Equal width struct pointers in C are due to the requirement for structs with congruent prefixes to be interchangable for accesses to those common prefix elements. 05:25:38 Ralith: C does not generally require pointers to be of equal width, except in certain special cases. 05:26:50 Zhivago: I must be missing something; aren't all pointers just a size_t containing an address? 05:26:51 http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/734346/my_parens_are_on_fire.png 05:26:56 *hefner* would comment about how insane that would be in practice, but is interrupted by flashbacks to 16-bit DOS and near/far pointers 05:27:16 Ralith: No. 05:27:31 Ralith: If you want to talk about it more, then I can do so in ##c. 05:28:53 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Success] 05:30:13 how do i server static files (css/js/images) on hunchentoot? 05:33:49 with-open-file ? 05:34:03 i'm sure it's even easier than that 05:34:14 but if all else failed 05:39:08 i guess i should find create-folder-dispatcher-and-handler helpful, but wanted to confirm 05:39:11 manic12_: thanks 05:40:39 applicable to all web servers: you could map the files into memory already in the external format and go really fast i suppose 05:40:56 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 05:41:29 ugh. emacs undo sucks. 05:41:59 yeah, photoshop undo is the only really good undo i have seen 05:42:52 emacs undo is great if you know how to navigate it 05:42:54 which is funny, because it has lost permanent points with me for its laughable single level undo circa Photoshop 4 05:44:00 Ralith: that may be, but since it seemed to be undoing things from before the keyboard macros that trashed my document, it only ended up trashing it worse. 05:44:03 i don't think i've used photoshop in ten years 05:44:05 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-29.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 05:47:11 emacs can only get away with this sort of crap on account of being thirty years old, anyway 05:48:01 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.151.204] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:59:05 never had any trouble with emacs undo 05:59:29 that's good to know. next time I need to undo something, I'll be sure to ask you how it works. 05:59:46 jwest- [n=jwest@unaffiliated/jwest/x-422957] has joined #lisp 06:01:01 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:01:11 -!- jwest- [n=jwest@unaffiliated/jwest/x-422957] has left #lisp 06:11:37 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:13:33 dys` [n=andreas@p5B3175F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:30 Re: pointer size, I wonder if Knuth's rant re 64-bit pointers on machines with less than 4G of RAM is apropos. 06:17:53 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.28.225] has joined #lisp 06:18:05 why rant about 64-bit pointers? 06:18:16 virtual address spaces are wonderful :p 06:18:22 they're big, man. Really big 06:18:36 so big that a walk down to the chemist at the end of the road seems small by comparison 06:18:48 32-bit were getting too small, rather go an odd-size like 48 and have to change in a few years? :) 06:18:57 (the tradeoff, in case that was a serious question, is in memory bandwidth) 06:19:11 pstickne: The AS/400 uses 128-bits of addressing space 06:19:16 Quadrescence: O.o 06:19:20 for future hardware compatibility. 06:19:30 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B31605A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:20:03 "The IBM System i's instruction set defines all pointers as 128-bit. This was an original design feature of the System/38 (S/38) in the mid 1970s. For PowerPC processors, the virtual address resides in the rightmost 64 bits of a pointer (48 bits in the S/38 and CISC AS/400), leaving room for addresses to be expanded past 64 bits in future processors. The 64-bit address space addresses all of main memory and disk (the single-level storage conc 06:20:04 ept)." 06:20:30 Krystof: iirc, looking at 64 vs. 32 bit benchmarks, even on the early 64-bit x86 machines, there really wasn't a good reason NOT to move over in general -- dunno about different architectures 06:20:32 pstickne: the problem is if all pointers are 64-bits and you only ever use 4G or less of address space in your program, then every time you pull a bunch of pointers into your cache, half the cache is wasted. 06:20:44 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@ip98-185-236-17.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit ["goodnight"] 06:20:49 gigamonkey: that's easy ... bigger caches :) 06:20:58 *hefner* shakes his stick 06:21:04 go hefner 06:21:13 hm, there was something I was going to ask you 06:21:18 I wonder what it was 06:21:34 well, one thing: did you track down your clx image corruption thing? 06:21:50 sorry, no, first I need to track down my "crashing X server" thing. 06:22:05 well that one at least can't be my fault 06:22:32 do you want to hear about a clim listener bug? It's probably not your fault either 06:22:45 certainly. 06:22:52 pstickne: take it up with Donald Knuth; it's his complaint. 06:23:00 64bit = twice the RAM 06:23:01 it's about the "expression as literal" business for reusing forms 06:23:24 *drewc* sells VPS's, so it matters. 06:23:38 if you're in the middle of editing an expression, and you want to reuse a previous one as part of it, you have to guess at which of the $n$ "expression as literal" menu entries you want to use 06:23:51 the others simply replace the whole of the thing that you were writing with the literal 06:24:01 drewc: yeah, if you've got more than 4G of RAM in the box, then obviously it's handly/necessary. 06:24:15 Krystof: that sounds like fun. I never use that feature. 06:24:19 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 06:24:32 hefner: well, I never actually _use_ anything. But sometimes I want to demo mcclim 06:24:55 another issue, still not your fault: pasting a form from an editor into the listener is agonizingly humourous 06:25:15 (the keystroke-by-keystroke implementation... is suboptimal) 06:25:20 Heh. I just noticed that Knuth's home page is http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/ I like the ~uno. I assume that's as in, he's #1! 06:25:33 Krystof: I'll guess that "I turn on Goatee when I want to paste into the listener" isn't the right answer either :) 06:25:56 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:26:04 that's a general problem with Drei and Climacs (and the cut/paste support itself), though. 06:26:20 yes indeed 06:26:40 I'm struggling to think about why we shouldn't just insert the string 06:26:51 gigamonkey: not if you're breaking that memory up into 256mb chunks it's not :) 06:26:55 at least if the recipient is a text-editor gadget 06:27:08 hello 06:27:12 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has joined #lisp 06:27:18 extra bonus: any future vi-compatible interaction mode won't get the usual disaster of interpreting a paste as commands 06:27:31 drewc: so are you saying you prefer 32-bit machines for your VPS hosts? 06:28:02 Krystof: we should! but no one has bothered, and indeed I don't think there's even an event type corresponding to the paste before it gets broken into keystrokes. 06:28:32 gah 06:28:41 ok, maybe I will spend some of my 15 minutes' hacking time looking at that 06:28:53 gigamonkey: 'prefer' is strong word..... 'afford' is closer to the truth. 06:30:27 hefner: just keep pressing esc if it doesn't do what you want. and turn to vcs when the previous advice fails :) 06:30:32 (it's amazing what Krystof can accomplish in 15 minutes hacking) 06:31:24 looking at something and deciding to give it as a task to a minion? :-) 06:31:40 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has quit [Client Quit] 06:32:17 -!- Orest_ [n=orest@p4FC443FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:32:20 guaqua: reddit told me that no one will use my software if I use CVS, and I can't stand git or svn, so I'm currently exploring a bold new vcs-free style of work. 06:32:29 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 06:32:59 hefner: aren't users an inconvenience anyway? 06:33:29 no vcs-trouble there, obviously 06:34:36 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:34:50 gigamonkey: speaking of knuth, it just occurred to me that this year is MMIX 06:36:25 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.254.206] has joined #lisp 06:37:07 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has joined #lisp 06:37:19 Krystof: so it is! 06:37:37 *drewc* got a kick out of that. 06:38:57 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:39:52 vcs is nice for storing history of whitespace related changes 06:40:06 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has left #lisp 06:41:13 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:43:47 ASau [n=user@host169-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:44:02 Zhivago: You're right, that is the reason. However, they also aid in FFI, at least CFFI. 06:44:07 Zhivago: You're right, that is the reason. However, they also aid in FFI, at least CFFI. 06:44:22 I think that the credit lies with the ABI, there. 06:44:44 Good point 06:47:33 -!- A_anekos is now known as anekos 06:48:30 -!- p0a [n=irc@athedsl-382776.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 06:52:13 mvillene1ve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-3-163.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:53:35 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:53:36 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 06:54:09 exit 06:54:13 -!- nego [n=nego@c-67-173-168-255.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 06:54:13 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.242.64] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:55:00 Krystof: heh. 06:55:12 -!- tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@unaffiliated/tc-rucho] has left #lisp 06:55:34 -!- Rivelli` [n=tesla@adsl-75-16-94-29.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 07:00:39 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:03:52 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-78-239.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:10:14 Orest [n=orest@p4FC443FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:01 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:19:19 -!- illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:20:28 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:22:16 VityokOr` [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 07:23:00 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:23:37 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@243.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:24:12 free_thinker [n=willijar@eas-nw709pc01.aston.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:25:56 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:26:19 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:26:52 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 07:29:02 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f5430.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:29:27 -!- mvillene1ve is now known as mvilleneuve 07:30:16 *hefner* attempts to write instructions for a friend how to run his mp3 player, gets to "recompile SBCL to enable threads", gives up in despair. 07:31:35 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.77] has joined #lisp 07:35:32 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:37:14 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:37:52 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:37:57 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:39:45 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:43 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:16 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 07:47:15 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:48:48 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.254.206] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:50:03 -!- VityokOr` [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:52:13 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:52:14 drafael [n=tapio@118-92-217-1.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:53:13 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:54:04 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 07:54:53 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 07:55:52 drewc: any news on alu wiki? 08:03:21 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:04:10 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118-92-217-1.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:04:54 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:05:41 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:14:44 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:14:45 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:15:36 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:16:43 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 08:20:30 jao [n=jao@121.Red-81-32-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:40 -!- manic12_ [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 08:22:45 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:22:57 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:28:36 leon [n=leon@213.87.80.108] has joined #lisp 08:29:12 -!- leon [n=leon@213.87.80.108] has quit [Client Quit] 08:33:44 -!- ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:33:59 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:34:28 ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 08:35:31 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:35:54 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-164.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:42:13 -!- bob_f_ is now known as bob_f 08:43:40 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 08:49:06 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 08:49:13 moinsche 08:49:24 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-76.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 08:49:25 oops wrong window :) 08:50:13 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:52 -!- djkthx_ [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:52:29 djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has joined #lisp 08:53:40 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:56:21 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-76.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 08:58:00 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has left #lisp 08:58:04 antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:11 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:59:23 -!- nuntius [i=Daniel@118.37.165.172] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:00:03 -!- prxq_ [n=mommer@g226207036.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:02:11 spradnyesh pasted "problem with make-pathname" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81147 09:02:19 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 09:02:23 can someone please help me with the above paste? 09:02:58 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:03:08 i'm creating a pathname, but on inspecting it, it does not show it's type as pathname because of which the function using that pathname is failing 09:03:29 -!- KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-76-122-37-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["I'm off!"] 09:03:40 i've pasted the definition (of the pathname), it's use and the error message, and the inspection values in the paste 09:03:47 <_3b> spradnyesh: don't quote it 09:04:14 -!- djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:04:22 _3b: don't quote what? 09:04:39 <_3b> *static-images-path* use `(("" ,*static-images-path*)...) or build it with list or something 09:04:42 i don't see a qoute anywhere except in the mapcar where i'm passing the list 09:04:54 ohh, lemme try that 09:05:13 <_3b> the quoted list contains strings and symbols 09:05:15 but i'm not using the `, i'm using the ' for building the list 09:05:29 but not special variables. is it? 09:06:02 <_3b> ' quotes the entire list, including the contents 09:06:17 djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has joined #lisp 09:06:18 spradnyesh: the call to make-pathname is incorrect 09:06:18 hmm 09:06:38 fe[nl]ix: i tried reading the documentation for make-pathname and pathname and other things 09:06:40 :directory must be a list 09:06:44 but it's very cryptic 09:07:01 can someone kindly point me to a good tutorial for understanding all this 09:07:30 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-3-163.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:08:02 <_3b> note that the error says 'the value FP-V2::*STATIC-IMAGES-PATH*' in other words the value is the symbol itself, not the contents of the variable 09:08:42 my (simple) requirement is to take the path of the (compiled) file being loaded, get it's directory, append "static" to it, and create a pathname from this string. but i was unable to do it 09:08:57 fe[nl]ix annotated #81147 "correct use of pathnames" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81147#1 09:09:21 _3b: its still difficult to read error messages for me. learning :) 09:09:51 fe[nl]ix: that paste helps. thanks 09:09:54 fe[nl]ix annotated #81147 "actually" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81147#2 09:10:15 i'd be grateful if you could kindly point me to some good (understandable) documentation for pathname (and related stuff) 09:10:19 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 09:10:49 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.28.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:11:01 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.28.225] has joined #lisp 09:11:06 -!- Orest [n=orest@p4FC443FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:11:21 fe[nl]ix annotated #81147 "dispatchers" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81147#3 09:12:37 fe[nl]ix: i got the dispatcher code corrected from your above suggestion 09:12:59 thanks 09:13:57 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 09:17:47 bobf_ [n=bob@host81-151-103-107.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:57 spradnyesh: I don't know of any tutorial about pathnames 09:18:19 morning 09:18:23 minion: dragon book? 09:18:24 dragon book: is the Dragon Book "Compiler Principles Techniques and Tools", Aho et al. http://dragonbook.stanford.edu/ 09:18:30 hi Xof 09:20:43 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 09:21:04 fe[nl]ix: thanks for all the help :) 09:21:27 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:24:18 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-5.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:24:24 Orest [n=Orest@merzcode.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:54 ellerh [n=user@dial-188231.pool.broadband44.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:47 What's the right place for administrative questions at cl.net these days? rt@common-lisp.net ? 09:34:00 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:34:03 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:07 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 09:41:36 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-76-122-37-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:46 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:49:53 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:50:19 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:28 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:53:43 foo1 [n=prabu@221.134.21.34] has joined #lisp 09:54:41 why swank server ends when i do slime-disconnect 09:55:17 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:55:36 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:38 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:58:10 what's a #() in lisp 09:58:13 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:58:36 An array ! 09:58:54 foo1: you might have to start swank-server with :dont-close t 09:59:19 antifuchs: thanks! 09:59:22 HET2: better yet, a simple vector 09:59:23 VityokOr` [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 09:59:24 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A199B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:59:25 clhs #( 09:59:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhc.htm 09:59:37 thx 10:02:45 antifuchs: does people hosting webserver's run sbcl+swank in detached screen? 10:03:08 I do... Xach recently posted his setup, let me look it up 10:03:34 -!- ellerh [n=user@dial-188231.pool.broadband44.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:03:37 http://xach.livejournal.com/215066.html is it 10:03:51 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:03:54 hrm quite annoying, how do i use vectors then? i am unable to find info in the hyperspec... 10:04:14 what do you mean with "use"? 10:04:19 what exactly do you want? 10:04:40 i want to access elements for example 10:04:41 HET2: Vectors are sequences, so any function that operates on sequences works on vectors 10:04:53 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:05:19 HET2: AREF is the canonical array reference function, for simple vectors there's also SVREF 10:05:36 thank you 10:05:37 HET2: ELT is the sequence reference function 10:06:56 -!- ASau [n=user@host169-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 10:08:01 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:10:27 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:11:58 adityo_ [n=adityo@122.169.49.183] has joined #lisp 10:12:10 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.28.225] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:12:28 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:23:22 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-59-73.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:25:15 Davse_Ba1se [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 10:26:35 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.94.243] has left #lisp 10:26:43 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-17.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:27:06 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:28:09 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 10:28:16 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:29:41 Davse_Ba2se [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 10:29:49 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 10:32:23 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:14 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:35:33 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c121h014.wless.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 10:35:41 -!- Davse_Ba1se [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 10:38:32 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:39:21 the irc lisp log thing is kinda hard to search through when there's one file for each day .. :} 10:39:24 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:39:41 -!- Davse_Ba2se [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 10:40:19 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:41:05 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1ACCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:41:42 lnostdal: cat *.log > big.txt :) 10:41:43 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 10:41:52 yeah, considering that :) 10:42:50 how can i or all the elements of a list 10:43:01 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c121h014.wless.reed.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:44:22 (reduce (lambda (x y) (or x y)) list) 10:44:50 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:45:22 hrm 10:47:06 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-164.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Success] 10:47:11 unfortunately, you cannot apply or funcall 'or so you need the lambda function 10:47:40 lnostdal: hook up the #lisp logs into montezuma and become a hero! 10:47:49 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:47:55 heh nice idea 10:48:02 blandest: i was thinking maybe i can convert the list to multiple arguments somehow 10:48:03 hm yah 10:48:04 spradnyesh pasted "default-handler" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81148 10:48:12 fe[nl]ix: Is there any particular reason for the odd names rod, and runes? 10:48:56 nice .. haha .. "Montezuma is a Common Lisp port of Ferret. Ferret is a Ruby port of Lucene. Lucene is sort of Doug Cutting's Java version of Text Database (TDB), which he and Jan Pedersen developed at Xerox PARC, and which, to complete the circle, was written in Common Lisp (see "An Object-Oriented Architecture for Text Retrieval"). " 10:49:02 in my hunchentoot dispatch table, i'm having a default-dispatcher which returns a 'nil on failure. but the control is not going to the next handler (see paste above) 10:49:07 can someone please help me? 10:49:19 tcr: that's how lichtblau called them(see closure-common). I was simply too lazy to find a reasonable name :) 10:50:53 fe[nl]ix: Yes, I know, but doesn't make them any less odd. I do not exactly know what they are, but aren't they pseudo-unicode-characters? 10:51:16 yes 10:52:18 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-164.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:52:45 they're (unsigned-byte 21) and (simple-array (unsigned-byte 21) (*)) and it's an incomplete implementation of unicode 10:53:04 Why not call them so, introducing a reasonable abbreviation? Perhaps someone here can come up with a nice abbreviation 10:53:50 HET2: (let ((list '(t nil t nil))) (eval `(or ,@list))) ;; this would work but use a lambda 10:54:06 it's hard to get shorter than "char" without getting into Arc-like names 10:54:10 chr ? 10:54:34 uchar at a miminum 10:55:01 anyway, I only made this to be used in the iolib internals 10:55:22 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1B05D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:22 I don't expect it to be exported, unless people start asking it 10:55:55 blandest: thanks - but that's even worse :) 10:56:04 -!- adityo_ [n=adityo@122.169.49.183] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:56:14 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.30.16] has joined #lisp 10:56:46 it's not a complete impl. because it relies on the host implementation for {up,down}casing and such 10:57:44 I'd do the renaming for you. Are there test cases? 10:58:11 you mean a test suite ? 10:58:41 I mean if the test suite exercises that part of iolib 10:59:14 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 10:59:14 yes. I've been a good boy this time and wrote tests for each function :D 11:00:31 honorable! 11:00:40 -!- jao [n=jao@121.Red-81-32-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:01:21 how was the symposium? Everyone I asked declined to go there with me, and I didn't want to travel just by myself. 11:01:33 but I'm not sure that they're exhaustive. I've probably missed some use case 11:01:58 darn 11:02:06 tcr: it was very very interesting 11:02:52 because of the offline discussion going on 11:03:10 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:03:16 jao [n=jao@216.Red-83-39-134.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:19 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:07:07 HET2: (some (function identity) list-of-generalized-boolean) = OR. every = AND. 11:09:18 in my hunchentoot dispatch table, i have a default-dispatcher which returns a 'nil on failure. but the control is not going to the next handler (see paste http://paste.lisp.org/+1QM4). can someone kindly help me? 11:10:50 (nconc (list a) d) = (cons a d) = (list* a d) 11:11:57 HET3 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:11:57 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:12:06 -!- HET3 is now known as HET2 11:12:10 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:12:30 pjb: did you get my complaint that some evaluates all elements of its list? 11:12:37 fe[nl]ix: someone should blog about it! 11:12:49 pjb: i guess that comment was for me 11:13:16 the part of (setf *dispatch-handler* ...) that i've pasted is not complete 11:13:21 but i do get what you mean 11:13:36 cmm: Krystof already did. just wait for the others 11:13:37 however, does that affect/prohibit what i intend to do? 11:14:27 spradnyesh: yes. Now read again: http://www.weitz.de/hunchentoot/#request-dispatch 11:14:44 spradnyesh: ask yourself: what does default-dispatcher return in your case? 11:15:30 HET2: SOME does not evaluate the elements of the list. You have a misconception here. The elements in the list have been evaluated a long time ago. 11:16:18 pjb: reading. a few mins please 11:18:43 pjb: i meant it applies the function you supplied to it to all elements before it decides wether some or not 11:19:09 Yes, but when this function is IDENTITY, nothing is done to these elements. 11:19:43 *_3b* thought SOME only ran until predicate returns true 11:19:53 pjb: unfortunately i'd like to pass something different than identity 11:20:08 pjb: maybe i'll just use dolist with a return if something evaluates to t 11:20:10 -!- dreish [n=dreish@207.138.47.173] has quit [] 11:20:10 Then do! And be thankful to SOME that you can. 11:20:23 <_3b> for example (some 'print '(1 2 3)) only prints 1 11:20:33 hrm i feel stupid 11:20:33 HET2: note that SOME and EVERY do not call the function on all the elements! 11:20:39 So you were twice wrong. 11:21:13 adityo_ [n=adityo@122.169.28.196] has joined #lisp 11:21:18 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.30.16] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:21:18 -!- VityokOr` [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit ["relogin"] 11:21:33 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit ["relogin"] 11:21:37 HET2: the advice here is to always read the clhs page about the functions you don't know ;-) 11:22:11 i need to fix my emacs to access the hyperspec more easily 11:22:24 pjb: the closest i come to understanding you is that the (progn (log-message ...)) is the error. but i put in there _after_ finding that what i intend to do isn't working' 11:22:33 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 11:22:52 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:54 but that (what i wrote above) does not bode any bearing to what you told me about nconc/cons/list* 11:23:06 can you kindly give me some more hints? 11:23:20 spradnyesh: the function default-dispatcher returns always your SHOW-PAGE function. It never returns NIL, therefore the following dispatchers in the *dispatch-table* won't be called. 11:23:24 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 11:23:52 No bearing to the equivalence between ncons/list and cons. 11:24:12 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:24:41 ohh, you mean i should make default-dispatcher return show-page _or_ nil 11:24:56 instead of doing that condition check _inside_ show-page 11:24:57 is it? 11:25:00 Yes, you should write your own dispatcher function instead of using default-dispatcher. 11:25:07 Exactly. 11:25:39 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 11:26:16 now i get it. atleast partially, coz once i start implementing it, i'm sure i'll get more doubts ;) 11:26:25 but thanks a lot for the pointer! 11:27:42 1 more quick question. is the default-dispatcher being used because i have it in teh list in dispatch-table. or is it used always? 11:29:21 as in, the documentation says "[Function] default-dispatcher request => result:- Default dispatch function which handles every request with the function stored in *DEFAULT-HANDLER*." and i have "(setf *default-handler* 'show-page)" in my code 11:29:30 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has left #lisp 11:30:19 so now i'll have to write(override) default-dispatcher so that it calls show-page or returns nil, so that the next handlers are called 11:31:24 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 11:33:57 -!- blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:34:18 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-4bcdbd5bbdcc967b] has left #lisp 11:34:40 konr [n=konrad@143.106.73.150] has joined #lisp 11:34:49 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:34:55 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 11:37:36 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:38:46 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 11:38:58 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit ["leaving"] 11:39:02 -!- mikezor_ is now known as mikezor 11:39:09 Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:39:32 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 11:41:22 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 11:41:46 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Client Quit] 11:42:00 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 11:42:48 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 11:43:35 test 11:44:18 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:44:58 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:46:17 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:46:50 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Client Quit] 11:47:07 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 11:52:32 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit ["leaving"] 11:52:49 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 11:53:37 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Client Quit] 11:53:54 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 11:53:57 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:54:52 .. 11:56:22 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:57:03 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:58:19 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:21 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:28 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:58:51 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:00:21 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 12:01:02 hm .. i have a question about the sb-ext:finalize facility; it does seem to use sb-ext:make-weak-pointer .. and i've understood that this adds some overhead wrt. GC? or is that only when using :weakness in hash-tables? 12:02:37 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit ["leaving"] 12:02:56 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 12:03:30 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 12:04:12 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181130081.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:04:33 doing anything with dead objects in a GCed system will incur some overhead. 12:04:54 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Client Quit] 12:04:54 hsuh [n=user@187.36.13.33] has joined #lisp 12:04:57 -!- hsuh [n=user@187.36.13.33] has left #lisp 12:05:14 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 12:05:37 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.15.27] has joined #lisp 12:05:40 -!- adityo_ [n=adityo@122.169.28.196] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:08:25 i do not understand how this works .. does each weak pointer add some "global" overhead when GCing? .. i do see that a weak-pointer adds some overhead wrt. it being a single step indirection of course -- from a "user code point of view" 12:08:30 ..not sure that made any sense 12:10:27 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit ["leaving"] 12:10:29 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl476.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:10:44 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 12:11:13 i'll google around a bit .. turns out there is some talk about this in a GC FAQ 12:11:16 a real GC is usually based on computing the transitive closure of some liveness property, starting from the roots. To do anything wrt deadness, the runtime then has to check whether the object is still live at the end of a GC cycle. 12:12:13 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Client Quit] 12:12:30 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 12:13:35 lnostdal: if I recall correctly, it's the algorithm used in gc to break weak pointers that's O(n^2) 12:13:37 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl793.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:13:57 ok, thanks 12:14:09 so you may run into trouble using a lot of weak pointers be them in a hash table or not. 12:14:40 yeah, maybe i should do some testing .. bit unpredictable and all though 12:14:49 mega1: weak pointers themselves? It used to be O(n^2) to track live weak pointers during a GC, but yeah, I think there's some additional badness in the GC over all. 12:15:20 but the point remains that there'll always be an overhead. 12:15:24 additional badness? 12:15:44 incurred by weak pointers or in general? 12:16:04 in the GC's weak pointer code. 12:17:56 possibly, but I'm not aware of it. 12:19:10 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:15 I don't exactly remember what happens for old weak pointers into younger generations, but in a given GC, I'm fairly certain that accumulating the weak pointers from old space and breaking them is O(n). 12:27:48 -!- tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:28:40 HG` [n=wells@xdslga037.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:30:16 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:30:43 novaburst [i=nova@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has joined #lisp 12:31:28 Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:33:09 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:58 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-116-150.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:34:24 nowhere_man [i=pierre@213.41.245.51] has joined #lisp 12:34:46 c|mell [n=john@y192014.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:37:55 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp011.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:40:24 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-59-73.dip.osnanet.de] has quit ["May the Source be with you!"] 12:42:23 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 12:43:49 coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:22 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit ["omghaahhahaohwow"] 12:47:25 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:49:34 Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-3-12.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:52:19 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:58:30 reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:58:48 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:20 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:45 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:29 -!- Orest [n=Orest@merzcode.net] has quit ["changing servers"] 13:03:45 Orest [n=Orest@hates-script-kiddies.ath.cx] has joined #lisp 13:05:20 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl793.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:07:37 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:07:38 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:08:11 -!- foo1 [n=prabu@221.134.21.34] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:08:43 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 13:08:43 -!- jao [n=jao@216.Red-83-39-134.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:09:11 carbocalm [n=user@64.40.185.82] has joined #lisp 13:12:52 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:16:21 -!- konr [n=konrad@143.106.73.150] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:17:29 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:20:27 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-164.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:22:26 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"] 13:23:23 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslga037.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:26:00 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:28:50 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:07 leon [n=leon@213.87.87.87] has joined #lisp 13:31:15 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:31 -!- leon [n=leon@213.87.87.87] has quit [Client Quit] 13:32:38 O(n) overhead from weak pointers is basically the minimum you can have, iirc 13:32:47 both time and space 13:33:48 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-164.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:34:21 plus some inevitable semantic awfulness wrt resurrection, should you ever want to make use of it 13:36:29 afternoon 13:36:31 Well, is that O(n) over the lifetime of the program or O(n) per GC? 13:37:18 hi nikodemus 13:38:14 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:38:37 kpreid: per GC, though the n can be smaller than "all weak pointers in the image" due to the generational magic 13:38:43 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2EEBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 13:38:54 coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:31 handy stuff, though. I wonder if the java world has come up with something clever there in recent years 13:41:01 jao [n=jao@200.Red-88-15-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:07 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:42:58 the multiple levels of weakness is interesting; http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/ref/package-summary.html#reachability (at the bottom) 13:42:59 -!- alpheus [n=user@98.215.226.98] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:45:16 -!- c|mell [n=john@y192014.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:45:33 -!- dys` is now known as dys 13:45:37 afternoon 13:45:44 pkhuong: thank you very much for string-case! 13:45:52 it made my tutorial almost have a point 13:51:07 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:19 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:57:54 -!- carbocalm [n=user@64.40.185.82] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:04:47 -!- free_thinker [n=willijar@eas-nw709pc01.aston.ac.uk] has left #lisp 14:09:05 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:09:27 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl1190.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:09:36 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:10:34 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:40 G'morning all. 14:10:43 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:10:46 hi nyef 14:13:08 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:14:00 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:14:02 -!- A_anekos is now known as anekos 14:15:06 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 14:16:36 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:17:15 nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-064-154-086.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:35 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 14:20:40 milanj [n=milan@93.86.115.24] has joined #lisp 14:25:13 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.15.27] has quit ["leaving"] 14:25:24 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:42 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-5.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:31:29 -!- Guest30359 [n=user@72.14.228.89] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:35:45 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:41:00 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 14:44:31 -!- jao [n=jao@200.Red-88-15-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:44:59 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Client Quit] 14:47:02 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 14:51:21 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:53:05 danlei [n=user@pD954FFC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:18 Anyone here used Hunchentoot with CCL 14:54:19 ? 14:54:47 I'm seing some weird behavior where the request object doesn't seemm to have any parameters in it. 14:55:00 -!- pjb [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:56:47 phytovor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-98-137.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:05 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 14:57:19 tcr: thanks for the profile dump 14:57:32 pjb [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:56 gigamonkey: I used it, but apart from having to patch bordeaux-threads, I didn't have any problems 14:57:59 -!- kidd [n=user@82.Red-79-150-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:58:10 kidd [n=user@82.Red-79-150-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:23 tcr: looking at it now. 14:58:45 looks like we're doing quite badly on the tight-loop function. 15:00:09 ehu`: Profiling is awefully slow. Compiling xref.lisp took almost half an hour. 15:00:51 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-7882.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 15:01:00 that's weird. I see you only profiled the org.armedbear package, which should be better than that. 15:01:06 but what's your hardware? 15:01:09 dual core? 15:01:12 single core? 15:01:23 It emitted tons of warning about some class load path being null 15:01:35 and not being able to find something in some class cache 15:01:48 yea; I'm not sure if that's an error or what I should think about that. 15:02:01 single core, 1,86ghz pentium m 15:02:09 had to manually increase the memory available to the vm 15:02:43 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:57 ok. mine is dual; it probably uses both. 15:04:01 At least Linux is smart enough so I could still listen to music and browse the web 15:04:26 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:04:26 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:04:26 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:04:26 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:04:26 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:04:26 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:04:27 -!- kidd [n=user@82.Red-79-150-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:05:03 scampbell [n=scampbel@199.105.195.156] has joined #lisp 15:05:05 nice :-) 15:05:07 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 15:05:07 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:05:07 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 15:05:07 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 15:05:07 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:22 ehu`: ever heard of jna-posix ? 15:05:29 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:05:41 fe[nl]ix: no. what is it? 15:06:03 an FFI for Java, written by the JRuby folks 15:06:39 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:06:47 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:04 you could add a C FFI to ABCL 15:07:38 http://kenai.com/projects/jna-posix 15:09:05 brown [n=user@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 15:09:33 -!- brown is now known as Guest60331 15:10:18 -!- Guest60331 [n=user@72.14.228.89] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:10:27 brown` [n=user@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 15:10:53 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-34-153.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:12:22 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.128.34] has joined #lisp 15:14:02 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:15:56 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:16:03 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:16:07 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-164.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 15:17:12 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:17:33 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 15:19:46 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 15:22:02 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:02 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:24:21 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 15:25:02 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:25:26 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 15:28:22 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:28:27 ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 15:28:42 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 15:30:41 I'll have a look. thanks for the pointer. 15:32:44 antifuchs: what did you have to patch about bordeaux-threads? 15:34:43 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:34:55 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 15:35:15 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 15:35:20 -!- Lectus [n=chatzill@189.105.107.32] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:35:37 willb [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:35:51 I was surprised to see that bordeaux-therads does not implement #'join-thread for CCL, but I don't know how to fix it 15:37:41 an additional condvar and a wrapper around CCL's make thread. 15:37:59 I read about a neat trick for joining threads recently, but it came with a warning that it only really works on wool threads or other threads that will felt. 15:38:11 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 15:38:47 fe[nl]ix: It seems running the test suite got stuck at some point 15:39:03 ((FLET IOLIB.SOCKETS::%DO-RECVFROM) #(0 0 0 0 0 0 ...) 0 200) 15:39:19 (IOLIB.SOCKETS::%RECEIVE-FROM 7 ..saps...) 15:39:54 the name of the test case is simple-udp-client.2 15:41:05 dysinger [n=tim@98.246.183.155] has joined #lisp 15:41:54 tcr: it's explained in the toplevel README 15:41:56 Monge_Louco [n=lhugbj@187.35.194.80] has joined #lisp 15:42:13 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:42:33 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 15:43:06 but shouldn't there be timeout and the test fail in case of the timeout? 15:43:44 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:43:52 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:45:01 right 15:45:25 tcr: add (setf (socket-option s :receive-timeout) 3) to the test before SEND-TO 15:45:27 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:45:44 -!- Orest is now known as Orest^bnc 15:45:53 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-059-019-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:34 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:46:54 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 15:47:18 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 15:47:31 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:48:25 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 15:48:57 I would like to allow for extra parameters to be given when a slot is defined by using defclass. Due to clhs 7.1.2 I'm not allowed to add arguments directly. Thus I'd probably need to create two slot-definition-classes. How would I go around doing that, as they need to be initialized (and sbcl isn't happy with me creating a subclass of the slot without defining slot-definition-allocation on it... is there some simple way? 15:52:25 madnificent: you could add a macro 15:52:34 fe[nl]ix: Can it be that name-rune is broken? 15:52:48 dlowe: no, I want it to be in the class, so I can extend it transparantly 15:53:01 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 15:53:17 tcr: possibly. what makes you say that ? 15:53:18 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 15:53:27 -!- nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-064-154-086.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 15:53:47 fe[nl]ix: name-rune.2 is failing, I think there's a off-by-one in name-rune 15:54:03 dlowe: wait, I think I may have done something stupid 15:55:28 ferada [n=user@e179232139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:55:42 fe[nl]ix: I think it got to be (= 24 (length ...)) and then parse-integer :start 20. But before fixing this, wait for my renaming patch 15:55:58 tcr: how was it in milan? :) 15:56:02 tcr: ok 15:56:23 Hun: None wanted to go, and I didn't want to travel by myself 15:56:44 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:58:13 -!- Monge_Louco is now known as dalton 15:58:53 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:11 dlowe: still not getting it working, but at least I'm currently able to define my own slot class. I should be able to overwrite the allowed keys now... thanks for the hint anyways :) 16:00:28 tcr: oh, too bad :/ 16:01:19 fe[nl]ix: the patch also renames char-rune to char-to-uchar because char-uchar lookes ugly. (same for rune-char, rod-string, and string-rod) 16:01:29 ok 16:02:14 -!- derekv [i=o5hallvc@c-76-112-240-178.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:04:41 Suprisingly uchar-to-char is just code-char, so it cannot be actually used on a non-unicode enabled Lisp? 16:06:06 it can, but it would probably signal an error if the code point is too high 16:06:08 Joreji pasted "special variable error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81155 16:06:58 Anyone can tell my why I can't access +html-form-validators+ from within html-input? (http://paste.lisp.org/display/81155) 16:07:02 me* 16:08:51 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp011.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 16:09:01 you want to have that declaration "inside" the let probably 16:09:34 which of the two declarations? 16:09:38 uh .. wait 16:09:43 The one inside html-form? 16:10:02 nevermind .. i don't see what you're doing or you're not returning the let anyway 16:10:09 mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp089141pcs.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 16:11:04 Yeah well, I'd like to collect validators during macro expansion time, so I can use them during run time 16:11:34 So the let inside html-form is not being returned as code, but rather directly executed. 16:11:49 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:12:30 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl1190.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:13:55 -!- jlf`` [n=user@209.204.171.101] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:14:06 jlf`` [n=user@209.204.171.101] has joined #lisp 16:16:18 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-26-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:40 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl660.nas924.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:17:05 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:41 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:53 hello 16:26:38 -!- jlf`` is now known as jlf 16:27:55 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-11-53.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:28:00 Good evening. 16:28:08 Hello beach. 16:28:16 when I'm working on some file, and I compile it few times, have I always read this "style-warning: redefining function...." ? 16:28:20 hello beach 16:28:47 MrSpec: It's a fairly normal thing to see with SBCL. 16:29:15 and Is it possible to turn off only this one kind of warnings ? 16:30:16 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl660.nas924.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:30:31 That I'm not sure of. 16:30:38 I believe that SLIME tends to ignore them, at least. 16:30:52 there is a way, but I forget it offhand. :) 16:31:43 ah, ok 16:31:48 Probably has something to do with the specific style-warning type generated or a declaration to muffle them... 16:32:01 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-164.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:32:01 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Customization-Hooks-for-Users.html 16:32:04 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.128.34] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:32:05 *muffled-warnings* 16:32:56 thanks 16:33:24 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:34:10 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:25 (setf sb-ext:*muffled-warnings* 'sb-kernel:uninteresting-redefinition) should do it I think 16:35:36 should't i use declaim ? 16:35:45 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-116-150.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:41:14 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:21 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 16:45:34 tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:46:45 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 16:49:04 -!- tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:49:09 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:49:21 -!- ferada [n=user@e179232139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 16:49:42 ferada [n=user@e179232139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:50:47 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl533.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:53:55 nzodd [n=nzodd@wsip-70-183-4-66.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:04 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 16:54:31 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:46 ejs [n=eugen@136-210-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:52 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 16:55:00 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:55:27 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:57:16 is clbuild only really meant to be used with sbcl? As I only see stuff about sbcl no the site, and no mention of clisp...? 16:57:38 thijso: you can make it use clisp too 16:57:51 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 16:58:02 ejs0 [n=eugen@136-210-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:13 hhmm... yeah, grepping through the clbuild source I find clisp in there... 16:58:28 anything special I'd need to do? 16:59:28 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:59:53 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:00:47 thijso: I never tried it, but I think it should simply work if you set it to use clisp (there is a file containing that config, if I'm correct... so it should only be that variable, I guess) 17:02:18 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:02:21 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 17:02:24 and what about all the fasl that have been compiled for sbcl? 17:02:35 well, I'll just try and see what happens... 17:02:42 comiling-implementation clisp right now... so 17:04:31 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:04:40 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-ef25874b0eac1892] has joined #lisp 17:04:45 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:00 thijso: sbcl has fasl, clisp has .fas, AFAIK 17:05:48 And the fasls might be stored in implementation-version-specific directories anyway. 17:07:45 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:24 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 17:08:24 ah, ok... 17:09:46 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-7882.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 17:10:09 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:10:11 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:10:22 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:10:29 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:10:30 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-14231.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 17:10:48 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 17:11:30 -!- rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:16:47 -!- ejs [n=eugen@136-210-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Success] 17:18:21 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 17:18:44 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:19:05 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 17:23:33 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-7024f3f82e34a749] has joined #lisp 17:25:10 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:26:33 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:26:46 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 17:26:54 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 17:28:03 So, in CLX, how do I alter a window-event-mask without using xlib::encode-event-mask? 17:28:42 Right now I have (setf (xlib:window-event-mask window) (logior (xlib:window-event-mask window) (xlib::encode-event-mask '(:key-press :key-release)))). 17:29:08 And that's clearly wrong. 17:31:37 parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:56 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:32:15 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 17:32:17 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 17:32:48 Ah. xlib:make-event-mask. 17:35:24 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:36:09 -!- ferada [n=user@e179232139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:37:24 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:39:58 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl533.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:40:29 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 17:44:05 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl835.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:46:30 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:47 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-28-169.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:48:15 MrPat [n=MrPat@dhcp-pa-67-20-227-48.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:23 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl835.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:49:58 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl835.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:51:07 xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 17:52:32 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:53:40 -!- Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:59:38 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-83-52.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:49 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit ["leaving"] 18:04:54 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E51C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:02 antgree1 [n=Anthony@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:59 tcr: here? 18:08:15 -!- |stern| is now known as seelenquell 18:09:04 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl835.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [No route to host] 18:09:25 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-164.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 18:09:46 ehu`: yes 18:10:18 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-164.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:10:19 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:10:22 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-65-19.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:23 ah. we're working on increasing performance on the compilation you're seeing. do you have time to run another profile in say 15 minutes? 18:11:31 Sure thing 18:12:18 -!- MrPat [n=MrPat@dhcp-pa-67-20-227-48.consolidated.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:13:49 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:32 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:14:36 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:14:38 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl926.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:16:56 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 18:21:15 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:40 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:22:09 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:22:18 -!- antgreen [n=Anthony@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:23:15 tcr: could you come to #abcl and help us redo your profile? 18:23:42 V-ille2 [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe43fb00-66.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:25:09 tcr: commits done. we're ready for re-profiling 18:25:36 md` [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 18:25:57 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 18:27:36 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 18:31:54 -!- ejs0 [n=eugen@136-210-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:34:25 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:50 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:36:28 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-65-19.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:39:28 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:45:21 -!- ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 18:45:25 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Success] 18:45:55 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.104.168] has joined #lisp 18:47:48 jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:48:34 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:59:24 benny [n=benny@i577A0DC8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:22 hkBst [n=hkBst@205pc222.sshunet.nl] has joined #lisp 19:01:58 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 19:03:09 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.101] has joined #lisp 19:03:33 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:33 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-11-53.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:05:47 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-11-53.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:08:17 drewc: here? 19:12:20 -!- novaburst [i=nova@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has quit ["leaving"] 19:14:52 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl926.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:17:21 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 19:17:28 fe[nl]ix: I assume your SMS was about the guided tour, but I didn't wake up until 9:30; unheard of. 19:17:44 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:44 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:19:14 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:19:28 kpreid: here? 19:20:10 brown [n=user@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 19:20:38 -!- brown is now known as Guest55871 19:20:39 -!- brown` [n=user@72.14.228.89] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:20:39 -!- Guest55871 [n=user@72.14.228.89] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:20:47 brown` [n=user@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 19:20:47 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1C8A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:12 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 19:27:27 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:27:51 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:28:29 nh_ [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:29:19 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:32:05 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:22 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 19:34:29 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:37:09 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:28 buggarage [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-26-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:47 sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDA9BF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:39:34 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl179.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:42:57 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181130081.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:44:06 -!- md` [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:44:37 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-28-169.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:44:52 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-28-169.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:47:41 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:48:56 coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has joined #lisp 19:53:28 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-ef25874b0eac1892] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:53:31 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:54:15 -!- parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:55:52 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-059-019-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:57:26 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp089141pcs.unl.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:59:25 -!- dysinger [n=tim@98.246.183.155] has quit [] 20:00:38 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 20:00:43 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 20:01:32 -!- sad0ur_ is now known as sad0ur 20:02:50 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 20:03:15 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:03:46 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:04:00 rwiker [n=rwiker@120.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:12 beach: what SMS ? 20:05:28 -!- scampbell [n=scampbel@199.105.195.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:06:08 -!- rwiker [n=rwiker@120.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:06:40 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:07:28 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:29 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 20:07:31 sheesh, no-one has reddited my sbcl tutorial yet 20:07:40 clearly this Internet thing hasn't caught on 20:07:46 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:08:05 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 20:08:11 Krystof, your latest entry on planet lisp? 20:08:40 Oh, I see. 20:08:45 I suppose. Or the talks page, or the direct tutorial link 20:08:46 rwiker [n=rwiker@120.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:53 Right. 20:09:00 I'm more interested in what comments it gets than the traffic or anything like that 20:09:08 so I don't mind if you'd rather comment here. 20:09:24 it just feels sad that no-one has said anything much yet 20:09:51 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 20:09:52 I'm afraid I'm not at a competence level high enough that a comment would matter. However, it looks interesting! (and it's using the same style as tcr's slime tutorial, always a good thing. :)) 20:10:54 I read it as "here are some things you can do", some of which I knew, some of which I didn't. 20:10:54 -!- gigamonkey` [n=user@adsl-76-254-16-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:10:54 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-16-215.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11:29 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-29.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 20:12:29 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-2-148-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:31 gigamonkey` [n=user@adsl-99-2-148-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:19 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:16:59 Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:17:41 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 20:17:43 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:20 -!- rwiker [n=rwiker@120.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:20:17 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1B05D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:21:08 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1F3C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:58 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:23:31 Hrm. I must be doing something wrong with this program, but I'm lacking clue as to what, other than it's probably X event-handling related. 20:24:31 rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-2abe6a8e5e7eeddb] has joined #lisp 20:24:53 (Looks like it's waiting while trying to read a keyboard mapping from the X server?) 20:24:58 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-14231.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:25:12 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:25:48 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 20:26:02 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:26:06 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 20:27:12 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl179.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:29:46 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:30:11 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:30:15 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has quit ["Log this!"] 20:31:44 jmbr [n=jmbr@235.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:33:01 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 20:33:51 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:36:21 Is there a mailing list for Hunchentoot? 20:36:47 tbnl-devel 20:36:54 on c-l.net 20:39:04 nyef: I also wanted to present your define-alien-type-class ideas, but didn't have enough time 20:39:15 Krystof: Fair enough. 20:39:52 tcr: ? 20:39:54 mjf [n=mjf@r6cs145.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 20:39:58 I still haven't sat down and figured out how to fix SB-ALIEN to allow me to drive that through to its logical conclusion anyway. 20:41:11 fe[nl]ix: thanks. 20:41:16 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:41:34 gigamonkey`: do you plan to come to Rome in the near future ? 20:41:36 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 20:41:53 what are your feeling on somehow adding a new sort of transform for equivalence of forms? Currently, we assume the deftransforms perform arbitrary inlining, which means we have to go through a full ir1-tran pass, and makes it harder to use more declarative code. 20:42:14 Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:40 Okay, that's just silly. 20:43:00 If you don't grab the post parameters *before* you call SEND-HEADERS you can't get them afterwards. 20:43:02 Grrrrr. 20:43:14 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl940.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:43:59 fe[nl]ix: No plans to, no. Krystof will be mad if I burn any more carbon jetting around the world. 20:44:09 :D 20:44:32 Though my wife and I have always wanted to go to Italy so someday. (Maybe when the kid is a bit older.) 20:44:51 rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:56 -!- jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 20:46:15 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:46:16 Me: "So, Krystof why don't you ever come to the U.S.?" Krystof: "Because people who fly around on planes are destroying the planet and should be deeply shamed." (Conversation taking place in Cambridge, England, several thousand miles from where I live. Dialog paraphrased.) 20:46:48 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@c80-216-56-247.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:46:53 He should just swim instead. 20:47:19 Travel in sails! 20:47:22 or challenge drewc to a race 20:47:24 pjb: exactly 20:47:30 That would give more time to program. 20:47:37 <``Erik> but that'd apply rotational force to the planet and destroy it O.o 20:47:59 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 20:49:15 ``Erik: we could use the saved oil to feed giant rockets to counterbalance the rotational delta? 20:49:29 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:49:49 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 20:50:37 Comprehension failure: If I glx:swap-buffers before my event loop then my program locks up when I first hit a key somewhere under keycode->keysym. If I don't call glx:swap-buffers, it's fine. 20:50:55 glx:swap-buffers appears to be defined correctly, and does in fact produce some visual output. 20:53:41 I bet the cause will be very interesting when you figure it out. 20:53:42 dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:47 The lockup appears to be happening waiting for data from the X server under XLIB::READ-REPLY for XLIB:KEYBOARD-MAPPING. 20:54:20 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 20:54:21 I bet it will. 20:54:27 ... but how do I debug this? 20:55:06 Just to be clear: I'm not making fun of Krystof's principles, which I applaud -- just the awkwardness of that conversation. 20:55:27 and that's why an SBCL get together won't happen ;) 20:55:41 And its irony, assuming Krystoff didn't get there swimming... 20:55:57 pjb: uh, he lives there. 20:56:01 pjb: Does amniotic fluid count? 20:56:11 :-) 20:56:12 I'll make fun of them for you. I thought the previous excuse was some petty political squabbling. 20:56:58 Hmmmm. Does subscribing to tbnl-devel require some human moderation? 20:57:08 Or is something wedged? 20:57:39 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:58:00 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 20:59:12 gigamonkey`: what makes you say that ? 21:00:08 How can I loop over a property list? (loop for (key val) in plist ...) doesn't work for some reason. 21:00:17 Joreji: by #'cddr 21:00:35 Might need to be on plist instead of in plist as well. 21:00:36 (loop for (key val) on plist by #'cddr ...) that is 21:00:43 Joreji: you said it: you look ON a property list, not IN it. 21:01:25 pjb: Hmm, I think I tried on too. But it didn't step twice, but only once, so key would eventually be val. 21:01:32 pkhuong: Cool, thanks. 21:01:45 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:01:56 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:02:00 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:02:20 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 21:03:04 -!- rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:03:23 rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:51 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [No route to host] 21:05:00 dysinger [n=tim@c-24-21-189-229.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:17 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:06:15 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl940.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:07:31 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 21:07:32 fe[nl]ix: I just tried to subscribe and got the automatic "We've received a request ..." and replied to that and am waiting for the "Welcome to ..." email. 21:08:33 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:09:44 gigamonkey`: btw. tbnl-devel is available via gmane as well 21:10:52 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:11:12 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 21:11:16 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@68-25-139-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:29 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit ["bye"] 21:13:30 sugarshark: can you post via gmane? 21:13:57 gigamonkey`: I think that the mail system may simply be slow 21:15:13 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:15:32 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 21:16:05 gigamonkey`: I usually prefer clicking on the confirmation link in the email 21:16:14 gigamonkey`: you can 21:16:51 gigamonkey`: but on the first post you need to confirm to gmane that you are an actual person 21:17:41 Ahh... It's not glx:swap-buffers at all, it's glx:render. 21:18:13 And I'm still confused, because glx:swap-buffers makes stuff happen. 21:19:01 fe[nl]ix: Yup. Clicking that link did the trick. Weird. 21:22:20 Oh. It's desynched the request ids. 21:22:21 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:23:24 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl997.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:23:43 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:23:57 mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@68-25-139-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:06 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@68-25-139-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:24:53 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:40 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:26:05 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 21:26:15 hefner: I don't know about very interesting, but it wasn't uninteresting. 21:26:19 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:26:27 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 21:28:16 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:28:35 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 21:29:56 -!- birdsbite [n=user@74.196.9.26] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:30:02 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-160-58.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:30:34 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has left #lisp 21:30:37 -!- sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDA9BF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:30:39 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-165-227.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:03 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:21 leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:32:52 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:33:36 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:34:14 perlsyntax [n=perlsynt@adsl-69-215-144-49.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:45 perlsyntax pasted "my lisp error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81170 21:35:01 i not ure what it means 21:35:12 sure 21:35:33 perlsyntax: try #emacs 21:35:51 i was in there told me to come here. 21:35:55 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:36:15 You're using elisp. You want #emacs. 21:36:19 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-76.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:36:22 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:36:30 ok 21:36:33 -!- perlsyntax [n=perlsynt@adsl-69-215-144-49.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 21:36:36 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 21:36:47 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 21:37:02 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-76.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:39:16 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:39:37 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:59 -!- nh_ [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [""If an MMO game is serving more people than it's bandwidth can handle, then you get lag. Lag leads to anger, anger leads to h] 21:41:18 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:42:20 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1C8A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:43:47 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:44:05 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 21:44:37 clhs mod 21:44:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_mod.htm 21:46:26 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:47:33 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:47:35 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6cs145.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 21:48:08 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:26 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 21:57:09 -!- V-ille2 [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe43fb00-66.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 21:59:52 -!- mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@68-25-139-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:00:17 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@68-25-139-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:02 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["leaving the office."] 22:10:28 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 22:11:44 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@68-25-139-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [] 22:13:11 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:20:18 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@57.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:23:22 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:23:59 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl997.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:26:28 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:30:14 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:30:38 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f5430.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:32:07 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:32:32 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl239.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:33:03 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:56 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:20 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@235.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:40:56 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.115.24] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:41:26 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl239.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:47:58 minion: logs 22:47:58 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 22:50:34 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.104.168] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:36 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:59:16 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@c80-216-56-247.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:36 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-164.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:00:12 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@57.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:01:59 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:02:56 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-17.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:04:38 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:18 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:07:25 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl827.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:07:25 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:09:45 Hmmm. Was the hype of 80s AI actually a response to the onset of AI Winter? 23:09:57 I'm looking at the timeline here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_Winter 23:10:46 I always thought of the 80s as the boom times but it looks like things were going south in the early- to mid-70s. 23:12:52 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 23:13:45 gigamonkey`: that's an interesting hypothesis. Someone should document it. 23:14:26 *gigamonkey`* adds it to his list of book ideas. 23:14:53 gcv [n=gcv@67.97.51.195] has joined #lisp 23:14:58 gigamonkey`: can we vote which book you'll write? 23:15:42 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:16:04 madnificent: Implicitly. I want to write books that people will buy. Within reason. 23:16:04 I see two hypotheses: 1- there was a 'star-war-like' phenomenon, where the US and Europe could not match the investments in AI japanese were doing (Fifth-generation computers, etc. they won and are producing nowadays robots); 2- AI started to be quite successfull, and therefore went secret. Some mission critical applications exist in the banks and the army, but disinformation was spread to avoid the "enemies" to do the same. 23:16:39 gigamonkey`: set up a poll and see what the result is (after you select what you want to write yourself first, clearly ;)) 23:17:10 pjb: interesting too 23:17:25 pjb: Isn't the standard hypothesis, Lisp-based companies and AI researchers overpromised and underdelivered and eventually the world got sick of them and moved on? 23:17:48 pjb: actually lisp is like super popular, and every big company/bank/government has loads and loads of lisp stuf running... it's just hidden 23:18:12 The overpromising part makes a bit of sense if you see the threat coming from things like the Lighthill Report and DARPA cutting funding. 23:18:21 secretly i am the brain of a bank that runs lisp 23:18:29 gigamonkey`: that's the standard explication, but as you say, it may have started sooner, and it's not a very good explication anyways. 5th generation started after 1980 too. 23:21:02 cp2: (eval '(incf (money-on-acount (first (find-accounts *madnificent*))) (make-instance 'money-amount :currency 'euro :amount 1e30))) 23:21:12 madnificent: that's quite possible, without it being super popular. Have a look at: http://www.lexifi.com/downloads/frankau.pdf ; exotic languages may be used by a very little core team, possibly not programmers but more mathematicians types, for a very small number of strategic applications. 23:21:50 madnificent: you cant fool me! 23:21:52 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 23:22:04 cp2: I wasn't fooling you, now run it! 23:22:05 For example, we know that Smalltalk is used by some insurance companies in France. There is not a lot of job offers, but we can see a few every few years. 23:22:26 Permission denied 23:23:10 gigamonkey`: it should probably be easy enough to find the US government documents about AI financing and projects. Some historian work would be interesting. 23:23:21 mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:23:33 pjb: whilst it is possible, it sounds like a lot of whining from the lisp community... it may be true for sure. It would probably be good for a couple of high-profile companies to publicly embrace lisp 23:24:32 cadabra [n=cadabra@17.224.12.65] has joined #lisp 23:24:33 Really, they may want to keep it secret. 23:24:34 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@17.224.12.65] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:26:49 I've got the example with NeXTSTEP. I've been working in an insurance company where I proselitized from the inside NeXTSTEP with absolutely no impact. And one day, there were consultants from NeXT developing a strategical application. When I mentionned the fact that I had been talking about it to the CTO, he was surprized (never heard it mentionned internally, but from NeXT directly). 23:27:09 gigamonkey`: "AI" as a name got hurt a lot. "5th generation computing" projects' failure was also quite spectacular 23:27:18 In any case, this never opened any official NeXT job there, even if the application was deployed for the higher-ups. 23:27:34 I was thinking about it and I followed the other reasoning: "Say a company knows lisp is a competitive advantage and does say it uses lisp." Other companies that use Lisp and may want to get into the same field may think twice, as they've lost their competitive advantage over you. Other companies not knowing about lisp may enter the field, but without grasping their disadvantage, they should be no immediate threat. For big companies 23:27:34 it is even harder, as they tend to do what you do, but with more people. Lacking big groups of people to code in lisp, they are likely to have to delay their product. 23:27:42 p_l: 5th generation is not a failure: it initiated the robotic industry in Japan. 23:28:47 This whole "It's a competitive advantage to use lisp, so companies keep it secret" thing is IMO a load of hooey. 23:28:48 pjb: but outside of robotic industry, especially in the west, it got rather damaged, I think. Someone mentioned once that "5th gen" is what killed european computer manufacturers 23:28:48 pjb: but since the US/EU/Russia never got into that (as in, we failed to compete), we tend to neglect that :) 23:29:11 Anyways, the point is that nowadays we could get documents about 30-40 years ago to write an _history_ of the AI winter. 23:29:40 madnificent: there was afaik quite a lot of AI work in EU. And nearly no one knows of how computing went in Russia, outside it 23:29:53 it would be a good documentation effort. It describes our society in a macro-way... the greater effects of it 23:30:30 p_l: we never got into the building of robots... thus we ignore the fact that AI actually may have done something useful 23:32:31 -!- Orest^bnc is now known as Orest 23:36:49 -!- rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Rakista has left the planet"] 23:38:04 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [] 23:38:45 -!- A_anekos [n=anekos@pl827.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:39:36 Hey guys, are there some libraries to generate .info and .html files out of lisp documentation? 23:40:13 madnificent: the first paper that we read in "Grand Challenges of AI" was that AI had actually succeeded and was all-around... you just needed to know where to look :-) 23:40:25 Joreji: http://www.cliki.net/Documentation%20Tool 23:40:42 (and that AI and AGI doesn't mean the same thing... we are still far from a real AGI) 23:41:01 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:25 pjb: Ah, just what I was looking for, thanks! 23:41:45 p_l: it is, but without the name, lisp still takes the blame. I don't really know if it really diminishes the correctness of my statement though 23:41:47 p_l: which may not be wrong, (cf. http://www.ravenpack.com/ and others like it); the question now is how to sell "AI". It doesn't seem so easy, actually. 23:42:10 pjb: never ever call it AI... we ruined that term 23:42:40 yeah. Don't call it AI, don't use *any* term from AI research, just tell the client it will do this, this and that 23:42:53 talking about modeling and recognising patterns seems to have a far greater effect on people (my _limited_ experience shows that effect on people) 23:42:57 A_anekos [n=anekos@pl1147.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:42:59 eventually splice some "current" buzzwords and say "intelligent" 23:43:51 look over various GPS systems' ads - they are the most obvious AI product bought by "muggle" customer (sorry, been reading too much HP fanfiction) 23:44:40 'we use support vector machines to recognise the overal effect of certain promotions on the buying habbit of your customers. Then we will relate this to actual data of the customer to make a precise estimate of which advertisements should be given to him by using *non-ancient-buzzword-here*.' 23:45:29 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:33 "by using our advanced analysis algorithms" ;-) 23:46:32 Artificial Greed? 23:46:47 hefner: nah, we have enough of natural 23:46:58 terms not to use: "decision tree" (it decides things, so it must think), "neural network" (what? modelling a brain, are we?) 23:47:01 humans don't want competition 23:47:46 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:49 perhaps we can abstract managers by state-machines... then we can throw our proposition at the state-machine and see how it will come out 23:48:00 tweak a bit, profit \o/ 23:48:47 artificial neural network = function approximation algorithm 23:48:55 oooooooh, nice one! 23:49:56 slackaholic [i=1000@187-24-146-42.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:51:06 you know, I think I could get an AI project at my uni, working on making buzzword-analysis for targeting AI (and not only) products at PHB-style managers.... ^^; 23:51:14 *nyef* wonders how often the clnet git repository registration script runs... 23:58:27 -!- dysinger [n=tim@c-24-21-189-229.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit []