00:02:54 basic` [n=basic@osuosl/staff/basic] has joined #lisp 00:03:07 -!- apo [n=apo@pD9E7EFA3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:04:51 -!- sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has left #lisp 00:07:14 Tordek [n=tordek@host242.190-227-33.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:08:10 manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:08:10 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:08:13 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-98-218-241-190.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:38 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:09:59 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["BB!"] 00:11:02 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:11:02 -!- manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:13:59 -!- overdriv` [n=user@client-80-5-174-215.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:14:34 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D292.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:15:02 that marco video is quite good 00:16:18 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:19:52 -!- Noll_Noll [n=28@c-ee70e253.4542024--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 00:22:39 ensarman [n=kike@190.42.87.202] has joined #lisp 00:23:24 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-188-098-208-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:23:50 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-93.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 00:25:25 holycow: sadly, he doesn't create new ones 00:28:16 mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@c-98-218-241-190.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:11 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-142-251.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:31:56 -!- lagenar [n=lucas@190.178.193.209] has quit ["Saliendo"] 00:32:36 madnificent: well i can now say that without that video i really would never figure out slime and how to use it with emacs 00:33:10 holycow: feel free to make one as you get more in to it. I learned a lot from it too and I want more :) 00:33:40 madnificent: *nod* i'll email him and find out if we get lucky 00:33:55 mailing the gods, are we? 00:34:22 lol, beggars can't be choosers 00:34:24 heh 00:35:23 anyway, it's bedtime for me. Feel free to add my name to the request mail :) 00:36:05 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:37:01 -!- tweek__ [n=tweek@host-231-137-111-24.midco.net] has left #lisp 00:39:47 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:39:52 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-251.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 00:40:55 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-98-218-241-190.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:43:47 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:24 ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 00:44:29 alt-n and alt-p 00:44:35 goddamn, now i can live with repl 00:44:37 k 00:44:39 .. 00:45:45 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-233-254.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:46:37 speechless 00:48:02 uninverted [n=njs@ip98-184-78-157.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:29 well you know, the documentation is just so fantastic in this community, how can one NOT actually just magically know this 00:49:32 There's always the option of asking. 00:49:37 it's the same as readline. you don't know how to use bash? =p 00:49:45 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:50:29 meh, i've never claimed to know bash inside and out. arrow keys exist for a reason. 00:50:52 Same here: I never learned the movement keys for emacs. 00:50:58 sure, they move the cursor up and down =p 00:50:59 "well you know, the documentation for bash is just so fantastic..." 00:51:00 holycow: o rly ? 00:51:10 uninverted: play nethack. 00:51:25 say what? 00:51:27 i'm just learning emacs key movements now, primarily as a result of using stumpwm and now watching marcos video 00:51:27 pkhuong: nethack uses emacs movement keys? O.o 00:51:33 c|mell [n=cmell@y192007.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:51:40 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:51:56 I though nethack used hjkl? 00:52:02 the keys are standard on old unix. It's the same as vi. The only difference is that you need modifiers on emacs since there's no visual mode. 00:53:13 better yet, get a UNIX-style keyboard. Or, in case of Emacs, Symbolics ;-) 00:53:37 droogie [n=user@88.238.219.45] has joined #lisp 00:54:13 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.204.50] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:54:29 no point in learning how to use readline and bash any more, I guess. the forces of gnome-terminal conspire to completely destroy all rational keyboard input. when they've done that, and it's impossible to use bash effectively with all the shortcuts, they'll introduce their new "Gnome Shell" and be hailed as heroes. 00:54:56 i wouldn't disagree with that at all 00:54:59 hefner: There's already something called like that... 00:55:16 hefner: then don't use gnome-terminal 00:55:19 hefner: urxvt here, using zsh ;) 00:55:23 only way to go, imnsho 00:55:45 yepp, urxvt works quite well 00:55:46 having used emacs for a little bit and stumpwm along with conkeror, i totally understand where that comes from 00:55:46 mm. I thought for sure I used hjkl on emacs too. I should look more often. 00:55:52 fe[nl]ix: I don't. Nevertheless, the rabid gnomes must be stopped, before they destroy my habitat. 00:56:00 "I can search backward in history, and yank arguments from previous commands! A revolution!" 00:56:04 What are the advantages of avoiding the arrow keys? If you have to hit Control, it's no better for touch typing. 00:56:11 *hefner* returns to topic 00:56:34 uninverted: you don't stay far from the home position. 00:56:34 uninverted: much faster access to movement 00:57:04 lazyness 00:57:09 and it's nicer on the hands because they move less in general (which helps make things faster). Plus, when you use emacs shortcuts, you can jump by word, sexp, paragraph, etc, instead of by step. 00:57:12 it's a good thing (tm) 00:57:31 you should see someone familiar with emacs movement keys browse around code. That'll convince anyone, imo. 00:57:38 just like watching a seasoned vi user. 00:57:59 cursor flies around, things simply become edited apparently through sheer force of will 00:58:23 emacs speed-editing also tends to involve C-s a lot. 00:58:28 i've read about these mythical creatures 00:58:55 it's not very hard to get used to the bindings, just takes some commitment and practice. 00:59:24 wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-144-151.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:27 there is a little more to it as well especially when you involve things like slime and lisp and compilers 00:59:37 Eh, I prefer to spend that time learning weird languages. 00:59:43 But I do love slime. 00:59:48 don't be a tourist, uninverted. 00:59:51 if you have only ever done simple scripting in pythong or bash like me, there are quite a few mysteries in some of the things that are going on here 00:59:58 I'm totally sold on paredit, too. 01:00:22 I think paredit is definitely one of those things that makes viewers' jaw drop, when used in conjunction with slime (and even redshank) 01:00:56 it's like wizardry where the cursor suddenly appears exactly where it should be, and entire s-expressions are manipulated quickly and effectively <3 01:00:56 *holycow* googles 01:01:09 hefner: Sticking with one language all the time gets you Java. 01:01:29 holycow: there's a video demo of redshank, although it mostly shows the boilerplate-writing/refactoring features of redshank. It doesn't have a lot of crazy paredit in it. 01:01:50 uninverted: all these weird languages can be edited with emacs. You realize this, right? 01:02:00 i'll google some of that. i'm waaaaay too noob to even contemplate some of this 01:02:11 sykopomp: Good point. 01:02:23 uninverted: sure, but learning every language you see just gets you some strange tropical VD 01:02:43 holycow: http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/redshank/ this is the redshank screencast 01:02:55 redshank is nice, but paredit is fantastic (and it works for all lisps, too) 01:04:01 That looks really cool; how customizable is it? 01:04:08 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:06:01 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Client Quit] 01:07:15 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["DON'T PANIC!"] 01:10:19 customizable? 01:10:21 it's elisp 01:10:23 figure it out 01:10:49 i thought paredit just closes parens automaticly 01:11:02 I should've said programmable; I mean, how much is baked in. 01:11:02 does it have other features? 01:11:09 no, paredit lets you edit lisp code structurally 01:11:11 heh. so by default, the cl-bench settings seem to turn on gc-verbose on cmucl 01:11:13 sykopomp: sweet thx 01:11:23 it does a lot more than just close parens for you. 01:11:45 is there a tutorial for using paredit? 01:11:49 which may explain some ostensible slowness, as it outputs a /lot/ of verbose info about GCs, of which there are a lot in cl-bench 01:12:05 just look at the docs for it, it's not hard to learn. 01:12:21 take the bindings, try what they do, and start trying to apply it. 01:12:27 droogie: pulling in/pushing out of sexps into the current paren group, automatic indent are my favourites 01:12:45 I should rebind ) to what M-) does 01:13:08 also, automatic C-M-u when C-M-f/b hits the end/beginning of the sexp. 01:13:11 om, sounds delicious 01:13:14 :) 01:13:40 also, really nice wrapping of the following sexps with M-( 01:14:24 eh? I haven't tried that one 01:14:26 is there any other must have tools for cl on emacs? 01:14:31 what does it do?... 01:14:47 droogie: I use lisp-mode + paredit + redshank + slime 01:14:47 sykopomp: wrap the next sexps in a paren 01:14:55 huh 01:15:02 when would that be useful, though? 01:15:04 very useful for non-interactive prefixing of stuff with a WHEN or something 01:15:17 I use M-( a lot 01:15:19 sometimes I type (WHEN M-right,right,right, etc 01:15:34 ohhhhhh 01:15:38 but sometimes I just do M-3 M-( when 01:15:41 thats what marco was talking about 01:15:47 M-( ... sweet 01:15:54 And you can get something a lot like lisp-interaction-mode with cl by binding slime-eval-last-sexp to C-j 01:16:06 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 01:16:10 awesome 01:16:24 oh, I see 01:16:40 droogie: I like the loop indentation that cl-indent-patches.el makes (see google for the source) 01:17:01 and, well, the fancy slime contribs that aren't loaded by default (: 01:17:01 usually, I just do M-(, then C-) until all the s-exps I want are wrapped. 01:17:27 man, you can have an entire class on how to use some of this stuff 01:17:32 sykopomp: yeah, I learned about that too late, so I got used to prefix-arging M-( a lot (: 01:17:45 :P 01:17:47 drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.27] has joined #lisp 01:17:56 hmm, yes i load slime-fancy too but never heard of cl-indent-patches, thanks :) 01:18:00 I -just- started using the kill-sexp command. 01:18:09 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:18:20 well, this conversation has been quite usefull 01:18:21 and I admit I have problems understanding the C-M-f/b movement stuff 01:18:21 droogie: slime-fancy doesn't load /all/ the fancy stuff... just the "slightly more fancy than really plain slime" stuff (: 01:18:25 thanks for all the tips and such 01:18:32 not to mention it's really painful to use constantly 01:18:35 droogie: so there's still a lot left for you to explore (: 01:19:53 hmm, i'll look for it, thanx (: 01:20:09 antifuchs: any particular slime contribs you recommend? 01:22:01 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:22:03 slime-asdf, slime-tramp. 01:22:06 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1C816.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:22:17 sykopomp: slime-presentations slime-sbcl-exts slime-motd 01:22:36 slime-asdf gives you a superb ,load-system repl command 01:22:58 and slime-tramp lets you M-. to sources on a remote server. 01:23:04 would you mind if i ask a out of topic question, i need some help on cl environment setup on xubuntu 01:23:44 i wanted to install emacs + slime + sbcl + mcclim on xubuntu 01:23:54 oh yes, the reference-conditions from sbcl-exts are a great help 01:24:02 is there a particular way to load them? 01:24:08 i have all of that installed on kubuntu droogie 01:24:10 just add them to the list alongside slime-fancy? 01:24:19 where did you get stuck? 01:24:19 sykopomp: exactly 01:24:33 which is as you know xfce ubuntu 01:24:57 antifuchs: is there somewhere where I can see what all those things do (and how to use them)? 01:25:16 sykopomp: slime/contrib/* is the only docs I know of(-: 01:25:20 -!- nekobaka [n=baka@c-76-29-163-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:25:35 good enough :P 01:25:42 thanks :) 01:25:58 <_3b> speaking of odd modes, anyone tried emacs versors? (i think thats what it is called) 01:25:58 and it keeps giving errors on every level of setup, i wanted to install emacs from cvs, while configuring it says makeinfo is not installed 01:26:06 sykopomp: the headers of slime/contrib/*.el describe their purpose 01:26:10 more or less 01:26:18 oh from cvs, i've only used stuff from repos 01:26:21 Can anybody recommend a simple/easy way to use graphics in Lisp? I've found some different things... but thought someone might show me the way. 01:26:32 (2d graphics is all I need) 01:26:33 droogie: i can't help with cvs installs, too manythings can go wron 01:26:35 g 01:26:50 -!- CrazyEddy [n=directne@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [No route to host] 01:27:04 mokogobo: lispbuilder-sdl is pretty good for that. 01:27:05 hmm, but are the packages on repos old? 01:27:09 <_3b> mokogobo: i'd try lispbuilder-sdl, cl-opengl, or maybe pal 01:27:10 it's fairly easy to use 01:27:14 mokogobo: depends what you want to do. 01:27:18 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-233-254.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 01:27:34 <_3b> (well, actually, i'd try flash, but i haven't released the code yet so that doesn't help you :) 01:27:34 *holycow* googles ogl and sdl bindings 01:27:41 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 01:27:50 _3b: what are you creating? 01:27:51 flash? 01:28:13 <_3b> holycow: a lisp->avm compiler, and swf tools to go with it 01:28:20 huh 01:28:21 interesting 01:28:25 omg 01:28:38 mooto [n=chatzill@202.114.113.2] has joined #lisp 01:28:41 so then we are going to haveto write an interface for that i guess eh? 01:28:43 its even more than interesting :) 01:28:52 thats totally cool 01:29:20 hefner, Basically I want to make a simple 2D "actor" that I can move forward/backward, etc., and eventually add some things that it can interact with. 01:29:45 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:29:47 <_3b> currently trying to get some form of flash<->svg stuff working, since drawing everything in code is a bit annoying :) 01:29:51 So, simple graphics will work fine. 01:30:17 mokogobo: lispbuilder-sdl is pretty simple for that, unless you're already familiar with opengl 01:30:23 On a totally unrelated matter, does anyone know how to get emacs to use the gnormal gnome fognts (bad pun, not typo). 01:30:24 I'm looking at cl-opengl, but am a little confused about the CFFI stuff right now... reading about it as we speak. 01:30:24 in which case lispbuilder would still be simpler :) 01:30:34 I know a bit of opengl. 01:30:51 I'll look into both. Thanks. :-) 01:31:09 <_3b> cffi is a library for letting lisp code talk to C libraries 01:31:22 oh neat 01:31:28 CrazyEddy [n=sexangul@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:31:36 _3b: what exaclty will it be able to do? i mean that flash lib 01:31:37 <_3b> should be mostly an implementation detail in cl-opengl (or lispbuilder-sdl for that matter), but we haven't quite gotten the high level parts to that point yet 01:31:52 <_3b> so you still occasionally need to deal with cffi to use cl-opengl 01:32:26 -!- drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.27] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:32:33 <_3b> droogie: compile something resembling CL into avm2 bytecode, and put it in a .swf (it more or less does that part, but doesn't have much CL libs yet) 01:32:41 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:55 <_3b> droogie: currently working on the part where you get to specify what else is in the .swf file 01:33:09 <_3b> instead of just putting the bytecode into a hardcoded file 01:33:59 <_3b> the .swf stuff currently can assemble and disassemble a bunch of .swf tags, but the code to do so is hard to use, and pretty horrible code for that matter :) 01:34:26 :) 01:35:24 <_3b> if the current stuff works out, it will be able to convert svg to flash sprites, and do some simple animation 01:35:55 _3b: are you going by the .swf specs? for some reason i thought that was open sourced 01:36:04 <_3b> yeah, they released docs 01:36:12 <_3b> the docs are even right sometimes :) 01:36:18 heh 01:36:43 i remember a project about 8 years ago that was building a flash ide competitor until they got threatened by macromedia 01:36:52 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:37:12 they said .swf was basically a wrapper around lots of standard stuff and they were looking at extending it to include 3d object support natively ... whatever that meant 01:37:19 <_3b> yeah, MS scared 'em with silverlight, so they are being a bit nicer to everyone else :) 01:38:05 <_3b> 3d in browser seems popular again, will be interesting to see who wins there 01:39:03 <_3b> got browsers adding 3d stuff, game engines making browser plugins, and flash starting to do 3d (and 3d engines written in flash) 01:39:15 yeah, i noticed that too 01:39:25 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:39:29 basically they are starting to expect a proper runtime in a browser 01:39:37 The biggest invention will be a reset button "turn it back into pure HTML" 01:39:44 which is something browsers were not designed to handle at all 01:39:53 Teklad [n=justin@206.74.73.50] has joined #lisp 01:40:07 holycow: IMHO the whole browser paradigm wasn't designed for that... 01:40:16 -!- Teklad [n=justin@206.74.73.50] has left #lisp 01:40:27 p_l: yup 01:40:32 its a frickin mess 01:41:05 btw, when i get this error: package "ASDF-INSTALL" not found ... what am i missing here? (require 'asdf-install) does what exactly, is that pulling it from cliki.net or something? 01:41:28 <_3b> something implementation specific... sbcl comes with a copy which it loads in that case 01:41:44 i'm using sbcl .. hmmm 01:41:50 i think 3d is a feature that would be great if supported by flash or whatever but it will never be among the best choices in a web design because 2d is a simpler presentation method to human perception 01:42:06 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:31 <_3b> well, web designers aren 01:42:41 <_3b> aren't known for making good choices :/ 01:42:53 nekobaka [n=baka@c-76-29-163-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:00 well, yes :) 01:43:11 the problem is that you are having a runtime designed to process xml handle other embedded runtimes 01:43:14 its crazy in my mind 01:43:49 <_3b> better than trying to put it all in xml :) 01:43:54 heh 01:44:06 what are you trying to do? 01:44:39 *_3b* is trying to do stuff with svg, but we are talking more generally about broswer 3d 01:46:15 -!- Modius_ is now known as Modius 01:46:23 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:47:20 _3b: i'm a designer though, not a web designer. and i see what you mean :) in fact the problem in web design is that insed of specifying the right priorities for the project, designers are trying to attract people in a very primitive way anyway, i am totally off topic (: 01:47:43 <_3b> yeah, we should probably go back to lisp 01:47:48 droogie: thats my background too 01:47:51 droogie: and i agree 01:48:30 _3b: yes we should and we should work on replacing the entire www with a proper document / runtime model :) 01:48:48 _3b: you know what kills me tho? 01:48:56 <_3b> nah, i've got enough to do already... web can fix itself :p 01:49:06 a bloody 5 meg flash runtime outperforms a goddamned browser in almost every way 01:49:22 <_3b> except UI 01:49:25 its almost as if you need to embed a browser in flash to get it right 01:49:28 except ui indeed 01:50:54 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:51:00 drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.27] has joined #lisp 01:51:08 -!- drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.27] has quit [Client Quit] 01:52:48 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@y192007.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 01:59:46 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:59:59 hmm, i forgot my question because of that exciting flash project :) i'm having troubles in cl setup in xubuntu, while installing emacs from cvs, first i got the makefile is not installed error, than gtk is not installed, would you like to use emacs without any x support error and so on, is it the problem of xubuntu or is cvs emacs install is a hard process? i mean i read everywhere that i should use cvs versions of everything. what 01:59:59 would you recommend? using debian or another distro instead of xubuntu, or using repos instead of cvs, or giving up and keep using winXP :\ all i want is sbcl + slime + mcclim and the funny thing is there are more tutors of installing these in win. 02:00:19 I'd install emacs from apt. 02:00:36 and the others from cvs? 02:01:35 the others from clbuild. 02:01:43 droogie: you are just missing dev packages for building emacs. I use apt instead of CVS, but if you want to use CVS, you have to read the configure output, figure out which missing pieces you want, and install their dev packages and enable them 02:02:12 sudo apt-get install build-essential maybe? 02:02:43 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:45 and follow the instructions in INSTALL.CVS 02:03:57 ok i think i'll install emacs from apt or synaptic and the others from cvs or clbuild :) 02:04:42 <_3b> yeah, emacs does real releases, so usually OK to get that from the distro 02:04:55 but emacs from cvs is so sexy :) 02:05:04 I used to do it 02:05:07 <_3b> thats what emacs-snapshot is for :p 02:05:11 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2CE59.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:05:12 I still would except for emacs-snapshot's existence 02:06:15 arch can do packages straight from cvs, so it's pretty easy over here 02:06:27 btw, most of them don't use cvs for version control. Darcs is most common, followed by (order guessed) svn,git,cvs,others 02:08:51 git got a big boost from kmr moving to that, and svn got a boost from bknr becoming the defacto ediware repo, but darcs probably still beats them all 02:09:30 -!- uninverted [n=njs@ip98-184-78-157.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:09:30 there is one more think i need to ask, i have a recursive function that generates a simple list in every step, is there a way to print that list right after it is generated or do i have to wait until recursion is over? 02:09:32 in terms of popularity of course; a debate about the relative merits of VCSes is of no interest to this channel 02:10:09 <_3b> you can print whatever you want, whenever you want 02:10:10 droogie: you can attach a prog1 with print to the recursive function 02:10:25 print returns its first arg 02:10:32 oh that's true >_> 02:10:57 so just (print (recursive-call args)) instead of (recursive-call args) 02:12:16 <_3b> or just (trace recursive-call) if it is for debugging 02:12:41 <_3b> if what you want to see is args or return value 02:13:33 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:04 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:15:16 hefner, michaelw: what were you guys talking about? 02:15:20 reerecting [n=outl@c-66-229-114-224.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:30 in fact all of them do what i need, i don't know how couldn't i think of tracing :) thanx everyone 02:16:41 slyrus: I've made several hundred run-program calls this weekend and had my sbcl crash myseriously a few times, and wondered if they were connected 02:17:11 yeah, that's where it crashes for me too. what os? 02:17:19 -!- droogie [n=user@88.238.219.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:17:27 linux, x86-64, with threads 02:18:10 (then I remembered I was using an older sbcl, and realized I should upgrade first and see if it happens again) 02:18:10 ok. I'm using freebsd with threads. I was thinking it might be freebsd specific, but would be relieved to hear that that's not the case. 02:18:11 droogie [n=user@88.238.219.45] has joined #lisp 02:18:18 ah, yes... 02:18:26 IIUC, threads and run-program are probabilistically lossy 02:18:30 the hard way to reproduce it is to let hunchentoot run for a week and a half 02:19:00 -!- legumbre` [n=user@r190-135-55-163.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:19:01 the easy way is to use apachebench to pound the server. perhaps a run-program specific test that didn't involve hunchentoot that caused the failure would be a good thing. 02:19:11 *hefner* wonders why he has a copy of sbcl-0.9.2 hanging around 02:19:15 apachebench usually kills it in a minute or less though, so that' pretty good... 02:19:20 s 02:23:08 hefner: freebsd ? 02:24:17 reimplementing run-program w/o signal handler would be cleaner 02:24:54 Fare: Linux. 02:26:30 or is it a general fork + thread issue ? 02:26:30 ISTR Fare's discussions of this on the mailing list making it sound surprisingly tricky 02:27:43 yeah, it *is* tricky, and even more so due to signal handling -- but in this case, it looks like the double level of locking is done right 02:28:06 Fare: satisfied re weak hash tables, btw? 02:28:13 so I nowadays suspect either a thread bug, or probably a fork issue 02:28:21 Fare: well, I don't know what it is yet, just that i happened to be using a lot of run-program today and also observing sbcl dying in an unfamiliar way (a segfault message with no LDB or explanation) 02:28:23 fork doesn't like threads 02:28:56 unless you and every library you use take extra precautions with pthread_atfork, etc 02:29:08 I don't suppose anyone would like my low rent kludge of forking a slave process early from the runtime whose sole job was to fork/exec processes on behalf of the mothership =p 02:29:22 hefner : got coredumps? 02:30:00 hefner: that's my kind of thinking (: 02:30:06 hef: early enuf == before you spawn threads ? 02:30:07 hefner: sounds nice :D 02:30:08 -!- CrazyEddy [n=sexangul@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [No route to host] 02:30:59 -!- poet [n=tsally2@fermat.cse.uiuc.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 02:31:29 CrazyEddy [n=tetrasub@114-198-24-33.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:31:40 -!- shelducks [n=hatf@24-116-241-99.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Success] 02:32:08 I'll play at seeing if I can reproduce this 02:32:35 -!- mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@c-98-218-241-190.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:33:37 hefner, if for the sake of reproducing, can you strace, ltrace or otherwise TRACE the various functions involved? 02:34:29 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.21] has joined #lisp 02:34:48 -!- ensarman [n=kike@190.42.87.202] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:35:17 I suppose so. 02:36:26 <_3b> vecto clipping stuff translates to flash even worse than i thought :/ 02:37:19 man, i thought this was working the other day. under circumstances can the error "package asdf-install not found" be triggered? 02:37:39 <_3b> holycow: the package adsf-install doesn't exist 02:38:14 (require 'asdf-install) is not enough to invoke it / install it? 02:38:43 <_3b> that generally should work on sbcl, assuming require is cl:require 02:38:55 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-119-164.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:00 how odd 02:39:01 sure, you need to type correctly too 02:39:14 <_3b> and you haven't REQUIREd it and deleted the package since you started the image 02:40:20 oh, _3b mistyped it, not holycow 02:40:48 *_3b* does that a lot :( 02:41:05 <_3b> holycow: try removing "ASDF-INSTALL" from *modules, and require it again 02:41:12 <_3b> *modules* 02:41:16 k. 02:41:54 i don't think that's so broken, you probably are missing something 02:42:11 <_3b> or possibly try loading it with asdf 02:42:53 ah, it turns out i was misunderstanding the compiler hint. http://balooga.com/lispbuilder/config.lisp <-- one of the lines expects all of that in a config.lisp file to pull the sdl libraries i guess 02:43:23 like having (require :asdf-install) and (asdf-install:install ...) in one file and doing compile-file 02:43:26 thanks for the tips tho, i will remember those ... never would of occured to me to remove from *modules* 02:44:03 Good morning. 02:44:04 <_3b> you shouldn't need to unless you did something odd 02:44:46 <_3b> and did something odd to an sbcl contrib in particular, since you could tell asdf to load it anyway even if it is already loaded 02:46:07 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-68-142-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:50:11 sbahra [n=sbahra@98.218.239.172] has joined #lisp 02:50:40 *fusss* is busy writing the smallest url shortener ever. can anybody do less than 10 lines of hunchentoot? 02:51:18 show yours first 02:51:43 sure, will remove the rucksack persistence stuff first 02:52:21 also, new urls can be added with a GET parameter in the url, so no form input, as the html is a little verbose 02:53:06 ensarman [n=kike@190.42.87.202] has joined #lisp 02:53:10 fusss: an AJAX-RPC interface is all you need (: 02:53:17 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-68-142-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:54:00 beach: ping? 02:55:33 yep 02:56:13 fusss pasted "shortest URL shortener" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78870 02:56:47 beach: Que veut dire "ne traite pas les entiers de taille illimitee"? 02:57:00 that's define-easy-handler, of course :-P 02:57:41 Quadrescence: "doesn't handle unlimited-size integers" 02:58:24 i forgot the hash KEY! 02:58:27 beach: I know this isn't #french, but, could you explain what the "literal" translation is? 02:59:07 Or...is "entier" == "integer"? 02:59:13 meh (setf (gethash url *db*) (symbol-name (gentemp))) 02:59:13 yeah 02:59:25 beach: Yeah, then it makes sense. Merci. :> 02:59:39 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-96ff2355d57fe680] has joined #lisp 02:59:40 Quadrescence: "ne traite pas" -> doesn't handle; "les entiers" -> "integers"; "de taille" -> "of size"; "illimité" -> "unlimited" 03:00:18 beach: For some odd reason, I was thinking "taille" is "tail", then I remembered to not be stupid, and recall it means "size". :P 03:00:39 (so I assumed it had to do with tail recursion. :D) 03:00:41 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-96ff2355d57fe680] has left #lisp 03:02:03 Heh, I see. Not at all! 03:07:21 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-23-238.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:07:26 -!- mooto [n=chatzill@202.114.113.2] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 03:08:53 mooto [n=chatzill@202.114.113.2] has joined #lisp 03:14:12 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:22:56 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:18 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-144-151.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:25:23 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:38 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 03:30:27 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-97-90.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:30:30 Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.103.201] has joined #lisp 03:30:57 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:36 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.103.201] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 03:31:57 Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.103.201] has joined #lisp 03:32:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:23 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has joined #lisp 03:39:26 -!- mooto [n=chatzill@202.114.113.2] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 03:39:48 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:53 mooto [n=chatzill@202.114.113.2] has joined #lisp 03:43:33 Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.103.201] has joined #lisp 03:46:21 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-11-184.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:46:54 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@98.218.239.172] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:49:21 gonzojive [n=red@c-76-102-117-117.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:11 pkhuong, not really satisfied ... if I run the you-modified test twice, it fails the second time! 03:50:24 apparently, stack-conservativeness has those weird effects 03:50:40 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:50:55 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:53:21 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:54:34 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:31 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.21] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:00:57 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.103.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:02:18 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:07:17 vng [n=vuong@222.253.61.57] has joined #lisp 04:11:34 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit ["brb"] 04:11:53 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@student167-193.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 04:17:51 -!- alec [n=alec@pool-96-233-16-99.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 04:17:55 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:22:53 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 04:27:34 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:27:51 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:29:50 good lord, PAM is still around on linux! 04:31:17 fusss: Would you prefer PolicyKit based system? :/ 04:34:30 flat files; if they were good enough for the Roman Empire .. 04:36:01 fusss: PAM is about more things than just storing the data :) 04:36:17 and afaik most configurations store it like that 04:36:30 now, *Kits... AAaaaaaaa 04:37:00 "System policy prevents you from doing anything at all. Enter your password (again):" 04:37:11 ..ad infinitum.. x) 04:38:11 minion, what does PAM stand for? 04:38:12 Pix Autodermic Monodynamic 04:38:30 I'd have guessed penile augmentation medicine 04:38:50 Pluggable Analysis Muffeleta 04:39:39 print another manpage 04:39:43 oh come on, PAM is not that bad. Not best, but it's better than some of the new "schemes" 04:40:05 I still dream of secstore/factotum, though :D 04:40:07 why do they still ship it for 1-person _desktop_ machines? 04:40:29 there is no such thing as a one person desktop scheme 04:40:53 fusss: Because it's not Win95 04:41:31 PAM should be like imad, ldap and other server stuff that "organizations" choose to deploy 04:41:38 And because getting apps to work despite config differences in other way would require remaking everything 04:41:56 there is no difference between individual and 'organization' 04:42:00 everything is an organization 04:42:14 its a stupid complaint especially now that every distro has a package manger 04:42:23 that precisely allows one to define 'organization' say as not including pam 04:42:25 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:42:25 fusss: PAM is what allows you to choose whether you deploy a simple scheme or a giant cluster system 04:42:36 and you can run without it 04:42:46 I, for one, don't think I'd miss it. I'm not sure what the security on my linux is trying to protect me from. Myself, I think. 04:42:57 though it makes some stuff harder. 04:43:11 hefner: it makes sure that your config files are read correctly? :D 04:43:18 my slackware systems have been pam-free, didn't stop me from bootstrapping organizations :-) 04:44:16 fusss: so what's the problem? :D 04:44:37 I didn't personally have any problem having PAM-enabled libs as default, too 04:44:40 i don't like to run into pam, evar :-P 04:45:08 *p_l* used pam for last ~9 years and never had to bother looking into it's machinery 04:45:20 *hefner* barely knows what it does, doesn't care to find out 04:46:21 hefner: it's simply an API to different auth. mechanisms and other configuration bits... 04:47:07 I never had to deal with anything other than defaults, though 04:47:40 more rube goldberg nonsense, no doubt. 04:48:19 hefner: that's because I never had to link my computer to external auth. :) 04:48:55 on some systems I think it also setups proper security contexts 04:49:26 (if you set it to do so) 04:50:10 ... However, Vista now supports a new model known as Credential Provider, which is deceptively like PAM! Well, cool. (And they say Microsoft doesnt learn!) 04:50:12 lol 04:50:14 quick google 04:50:32 its a frickin authentication framework that takes auth out of the hands of applications 04:50:40 i don't understand how this can in any way be seen as a problem 04:51:53 Well, I certainly prefer PAM to "play with recompiling libc and all the rest auth-related stuff if you want to use something different than default" 04:52:08 things by definition are burdens, and therefore problems. they have to redeem themselves by solving some problem larger than the maintenance burden they impose. 04:52:43 and since I don't see the point in authenticating anything in a desktop computer anyway, it's a hard sell. 04:53:16 well, I prefer to keep security system available :D 04:53:19 *JuanDaugherty* says Amen to the Church of the Redeemer. 04:53:50 but if you want to remove auth completely, you can make PAM do so... 04:54:06 I think the config would be even simpler than defaults :D 04:54:16 fwiw, i'm the one who started this pam troll and i'm effectively locked out my system at home because I did /etc/rc.d/rc.sshd stop, instead of restart :-( 04:54:30 anyone who thinks authentication on a desktop computer doesn't have enough money to play with 04:54:41 thats not a bad thing 04:54:53 parse error, dude. 04:55:10 it's not a parse on transmission 04:55:22 however, unless one plans on living in the dark ages forever, the future includes automation of virtually everything 04:55:47 oder? 04:55:53 *fusss* wants lint for configuration files, right before servers are restarted 04:56:03 by extension, your home will become a server room and pam will invade there too 04:56:05 a future in which my desktop PC will, with increasing likelihood, play the role of a terminal 04:56:19 hefner: :-) 04:56:21 already does, more-or-less. 04:56:38 a future by which even the smallest gadget will have enough power to actually run a full distro 04:57:12 or an rtos a taiwanese firm pirated from a german university and burned into rom :-) 04:57:14 I remember seeing some talk of an alcometer pam module but can't find it right now... 04:57:22 you may not want to code lisp on your toaster, but sure as hell your toaster will be logging into your local domain soon enough 04:57:47 not while i'm the sysadmin, the network will be down 04:58:25 my position is more complicated than it may appear. I consider all my security concerns as existing entirely within the bounds of my own user account, where the OS isn't doing anything to defend, say, my financial information, from an errant instance of firefox owned by the hack of the week. 04:59:18 hefner: that's why I have some heavier stuff than user auth here (never bothered to really configure it, though) 04:59:28 well, technically i kinda agree 04:59:34 and while I could, at considerable inconvenience to myself, try and take advantage of the OS security to compartmentalize things, for it to be of any use I have to assume the system is trustworthy to begin with, which it isn't. 05:00:08 well the os compartementailizes your user account to begin with 05:00:30 it may not be a vm type of sandbox so a bit porous but its a sandbox that has to talk to various system components none the less 05:00:34 (I say it isn't, anyway. I have friends whose hobbies include writing 0-day kernel exploits; YMMV) 05:00:41 how do you know your tcpip stack isn't hacked? 05:01:27 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:49 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:01:49 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:01:57 I don't, but I'm screwed anyway, so just give up, I say. 05:02:11 I mean, you're basically making my point for me. 05:04:34 *nod* you are right. security isn't a product its a process 05:04:36 i agree 05:05:55 security is tasty and delicious and smells faintly of strawberry ice cream 05:06:06 ..and money 05:07:06 hefner: if you give money to an idiot like Linus, might as well spread the wealth with some other idiots 05:07:17 :P 05:08:03 Adamant_: You could be doing worse, you could give money to people making some of the stuff that runs on top of linux kernel... like PolicyKit, ConsoleKit etc... Aaaargh 05:08:55 p_l: those guys usually don't pretend to know more than they know, though. the same is not true of the head penguin wrangler 05:09:05 Noll_Noll [n=28@c-ee70e253.4542024--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:10:11 uhhh ... first linus is probably smart enough to clean his toilets with your ego 05:10:24 secondly, like all humans, he has opinions on shit he isn't an expert on 05:10:35 anyway, most of the best security solutions are freely available anyway. however, that doesn't prevent companies like Red Hat from paying people to reinvent them poorly. 05:10:44 with similar rates of correctness 05:10:46 holycow: who said I had an ego? 05:11:03 i did. 05:11:10 ahem 05:11:31 morning! 05:11:37 aww 05:13:14 hiya, hefner. Do you have any opinion on those patches Julius sent to mcclim-devel an aeon ago? 05:14:51 Can you give me some keywords? I'm failing to dredge them up in gmail. 05:15:16 "Set save-unders for transient windows" 05:15:26 "Use Unicode fonts when available" 05:15:30 ejs [n=eugen@51-165-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:35 "[PATCH] cooperate with window manager" 05:15:41 "Fix crash" 05:16:26 some of them are uncontroversial, I think 05:16:58 but some of them involve me going to find X or ICCCCCCCCM documentation :-/ 05:17:31 they sound great, but gmane and I have no record of them 05:20:48 how odd 05:20:55 I was cced on all of them; maybe mcclim-devel bounced them 05:21:14 bah :-( 05:23:53 anyone have a preferred imapd for a low-resource server? 256mb :-/ 05:25:20 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:28 -!- white-rabbit-obj [n=cpc5@cpe-67-241-171-153.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 05:28:49 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-22-228.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:31:58 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E2C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:51 mikezor [n=mikael@c-67e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:34:28 I don't see those messages either. 05:37:00 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:37:56 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 05:42:16 -!- aja [n=aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Client Quit] 05:43:46 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-76-102-117-117.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:44:54 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 05:45:09 pkhuong: around? 05:47:11 evening folks 05:49:44 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E2C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:50:02 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-67e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:58:16 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:11 -!- mooto [n=chatzill@202.114.113.2] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"] 05:59:35 jfactor [n=jfactor@student167-76.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 05:59:56 hey slyrus 06:01:04 hey beach, what's new? 06:02:50 slyrus: well, unless someone pokes a hole in my theory, I think I have invented a method for additive sound synthesis that should be an order of magnitude faster than what we now have. 06:03:18 i guess i'd think that was cool if i knew what additive sound synthesis was :) 06:03:42 slyrus: summin huge numbers of sinusoidal oscillators essentially. 06:03:48 *summing 06:07:32 It's a convenient representation of sound if you want to manipulate it in various non-linear ways such as changing the duration, adding vibrato, etc. 06:08:46 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:10:06 I'd be interested in trying to poke holes 06:10:32 Krystof: if you have time, I'll let you read what I came upp with. 06:10:38 sure 06:11:11 not that I'm an expert in the state of the art for additive synthesis; I hope I'd be able to cope with the theory, though 06:11:49 It requires knowing our previous method called PASS, polynomial additive sound synthesis, but that one is easy, just approximate the trig functions by a polynomial so that you can add the parameters instead of the samples, then just run a central process for generating the samples. 06:12:02 Krystof: All you need to know is trigonometry. 06:12:26 PASS turns out to work great below 200Hz or so, and is more efficient for lower frequencies. 06:12:40 more efficient that the digital resonator method. 06:14:11 beach: do you need to know pi to extraordinary accuracy to do PASS? (To be able to glue together multiple cycles of your polynomial?) 06:14:32 Krystof: Not really, no. 06:15:22 Krystof: We generally approximate a quarter period with a degree 3 or 4 polynomial. 06:15:25 ASau` [n=user@host118-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:16:29 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:16:50 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:17:16 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:18:27 In PASS, each "oscillator" keeps its partial values for the signal and its derivatives. Those values are summed up centrally. We manage a priority queue so that oscillators get informed about changes in parameters (usually every quarter period). When this happens, the oscillator subtracts its old values from the central place, and ads the new ones. 06:20:03 This is faster than the digital resonator (which requires one multiplication and two additions) only if we don't need to update the parameters too often. In addition, generating a polynomial this way is more expensive than the DS method, so in practice the cutoff frequency is around 300Hz 06:21:01 At least for sample rates of 44100kHz. If we double or quadruple that, which is often done in professional equipment, the cutoff frequency gets multiplied as well, so that PASS is better up to 1200Hz. 06:21:14 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@student167-76.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:23:43 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:27:15 -!- ASau` [n=user@host118-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:29:46 -!- ensarman [n=kike@190.42.87.202] has quit ["Saliendo"] 06:30:14 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 06:31:20 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has joined #lisp 06:32:57 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:36:51 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:37:37 Hello 06:37:51 Hello MrSpec 06:39:56 ASau` [n=user@host118-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:40:30 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:42:30 -!- Adamant_ [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 06:42:53 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:43:20 jfactor [n=jfactor@student167-76.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 06:43:30 jfactor: o/ 06:43:48 hey sykopomp 06:43:55 hey :) 06:43:58 good evening, fellow hampshireites 06:44:01 good to see hampsters around there parts. 06:45:46 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-161-244.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:46:09 good morning 06:46:09 hello mvilleneuve 06:46:16 *beach* leaves for work... 06:47:28 hmmpf 06:47:41 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-249-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:49:21 generating ssl certs for people's mail clients .. by hand, oh the fun~!!!1 06:51:47 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.101.94] has joined #lisp 06:52:26 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 06:53:57 -!- djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:57:44 -!- holycow [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:58:58 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 06:59:23 holycow [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:34 mega1 [n=mega@53d83bcd.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:02:29 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:02:37 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:14 -!- holycow [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:06:55 http://acypher.com/wwid/Chapters/10Garnet.html 07:08:32 p_l: herep 07:08:42 t 07:09:03 are you still following the h/c/p/v scenes? 07:09:40 know of any good zines, other than phrack? 07:10:08 phrack dies and comes back, like an indicative jesus 07:10:27 s/indicative/indecisive/ 07:10:49 I'm not really good at following them. I'm interested, but I'm too disorganised 07:11:35 i don't read them for the "infoz", which are lacking and juvenille; but the attitude is refreshing funny and spirited, usually. 07:12:18 i keep linking to this article and calling it "the greatest interview given by a human being": http://phrack.org/issues.html?issue=65&id=2#article :-) 07:12:18 I do keep phrack archive from before it closed down 07:13:04 _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B61C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:13:11 lol @ "admin of: most south korea/china 07:13:35 read it carefully like you would a newly found papyrus 07:13:51 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:15:15 manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:15:16 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:16:23 member of anonymous... 07:16:24 :| 07:16:35 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-245.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:16:37 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:22:36 -!- _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B61C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:26:43 I want to learn this web application stuff; what can you recommend as reading material? 07:28:47 tcr: hunchentoot, js the definitive guide, html and xhtml spec from w3c, hunchentoot, a db (mysql, bdb, sqlite) 07:28:49 Practical Common Lisp has a Web Application example 07:28:55 Shall I bother reading the original papers about REST? 07:28:58 OWASP too 07:29:00 fusss: Or Firebird 07:29:05 Or is there better secondary literature? 07:29:17 fusss: I read it like the trash it was :D 07:29:24 tcr: What do you mean by "web application stuff"? 07:29:26 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 07:29:36 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 07:29:50 tcr: REST, SOAP and web services stuff come after ajax; you will need to understand xml and json vaguely 07:29:56 fusss: It's not like I don't see the fun in doing what he did, but I'm definitely on another side of barricade :) 07:30:18 p_l: live vicariously through the man :-) 07:30:26 > watching a cheesy action flick 07:30:42 vy: I want to write a stateful web application. Essentially, a simple hotel book-keeping software. 07:30:59 fusss: After Ajax? I thought they'd precede it 07:31:11 fusss: I'm considering becoming immortal. Not yet available, so much research needed. :) 07:31:49 tcr: ajax is basically a "calling convention"; ajax is to web what SERVE-EVENT is to CMUCL/sbcl :-) 07:32:11 p_l: found a philosophy. there. you will never die again. 07:32:46 tcr: I'd advise you to check SymbolicWeb, but it doesn't exist anymore. Instead, you can check weblocks. 07:32:52 Thanks for the reference of OWASP, fuss. 07:33:01 heh. If I really wanted to troll though, I'd troll USA into starting an unjust war then make them lose it. That would be troll of the century ;-) 07:33:06 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:33:17 tcr: i'm very close to "writing" a hunchentoot book, but after i write a Lisp with arabic input, my translation of mathematics classics and the manuals and the dev documents for my company 07:33:30 vy: Thanks, I know the existing CL infrastructure (by name), but my knowledge about the platform itself is too limited at the moment 07:34:40 it's too early for tcr to pick a web framework; see how CGI is done first. calling a "script" on the server, writing to STDOUT, getting parameters through env variables, etc. Allegro Serve does that. Hunchentoo 1.0.0 is nothing like it. 07:35:27 tcr: install hunchentoot and feel free to bug me for questions :-) 07:35:43 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:36:10 fuss: Do you know of anything that describes the platform in detail? I.e. down to the protocol level? 07:37:10 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-249-162.netcologne.de] has quit [] 07:38:26 http is basically a text-based protocol. it has a few "methods", less than 6. You will probably just use two, GET and POST (it also has PUT, HEAD and a few others) 07:38:33 I'm ashamed of typing (let ((i i)) ...) in (dotimes (i ...) ...) blocks, I hope compiler designers share this ashame with me. 07:40:00 tcr: there isn't much to learn. the "platform" is text-based commands being sent around. 07:40:21 i wonder why that (binding vs. assigning) is implementation dependent .. performance? ,vy 07:40:49 fusss: Right, I know that. But I don't know how cookies come in and the rest 07:40:54 RFC 2616 describes the http 1.1 protocol (the latest) but you wont even need that. just a telnet command wold do. 07:41:50 cookies are sent by the server whenever a resource is requested. when you issues a "GET / HTTP/1.1." command, the server, along with the message body containing the result of your request, will return a Cookie header 07:42:03 lnostdal: Assigning is the natural choice, unless to expand to a tail-recursive version, and you only do that if your compiler does TCO 07:42:30 fusss: Is this also specified in the RFC? 07:42:37 it's up to the client to respect the cookie convention and send it back. nearly every browser will send back the cookie set by the server everytime it requests a resource. if you write your own web-client you can choose to ignore it :-) 07:43:56 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #lisp 07:44:08 where is a good definition of the 'do' macro? searching for it on google has been most frustrating 07:44:12 clhs do 07:44:13 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_do.htm 07:44:20 mabye we can also have macros named a, this, and, or, the 07:44:21 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:44:35 the last three of those are lisp operators, yes 07:44:49 perhaps you should take some time in acquiring some good documentation? 07:45:01 how do I do that? 07:45:10 you seem to have good documentation 07:45:13 can you tar it up and send it to me? 07:45:15 no 07:45:27 but you can acquire it for yourself 07:45:38 tcr: what you wanna focus more is the DOM, JS, CSS and a few of the http headers. DOM describes how well formed html and valid xhtml are parsed (i.e. how textual tags are represented in memory); JS is a client side dynamic scripting language with many gotchas and limitations. CSS if for display and rendering. and the http methods you need to know about are GET and POST (GETs are encoded in... 07:45:40 ...the URL and limted in length while POST data is encoded in the _body_ of the request) 07:46:23 lowlycoder: the hyperspec is available online. google it. 07:46:31 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-22-228.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:46:51 lnostdal: I have no idea. OTOH, I don't think that's declared as an implementation-dependent feature(?) in CLHS, and can be counted as a bug. 07:47:02 lowlycoder, http://lispdoc.com/?q=do .. but you really should download the hyperspec for offline browsing :) 07:47:24 vy: It is left unspecified. 07:47:32 HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has joined #lisp 07:47:36 vy: you are wrong 07:47:39 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-134-57.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:48:16 -!- nekobaka [n=baka@c-76-29-163-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:48:26 thi sis amazing, the first result for hyperspec on google has a download link 07:48:32 i wonder if it's readalbe to my computer too 07:48:35 vy: I mean, how hard would it be to visit the page for DOTIMES and search for the text "implementation-dependent" before saying something like that? 07:48:58 fusss: Thank you. I'll look into that. 07:49:11 and at some point you will want this ;-) http://bulk.fefe.de/scalable-networking.pdf 07:49:17 holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:08 i just got hunchentoot to do 180 requests per second, each request being 90k :-) stuff withstand a good slashdoting, imo 07:50:10 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:50:28 lowlycoder: The CLHS is not a good ressource to learn Common Lisp from. It's a specification. The book Practical Common Lisp is a good introduction. 07:50:46 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-204-145-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:51:01 fusss: up that to 250k and double the r/s :) 07:51:39 i actually use scheme :-) 07:52:24 320r/s? i did it, but the size was < 90s (output of (cons (list-all-packages) (reverse (list-all-packages)))) 07:52:33 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-e953e55f7714f842] has joined #lisp 07:52:40 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-e953e55f7714f842] has left #lisp 07:52:44 i'm using VECTO to generate banner ads dynamically, as a test case 07:52:57 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 07:53:10 the actual system will serve banner ads, where the images are cached in memory with a mysql heap engine 07:53:52 currently using rucksack, but its transaction system is not thread-aware (will have to implement bt:wth-lock-held for rucksack myself if i want to keep it) 07:53:58 fusss: sounds like fun. its cool you are using lisp for this project i think 07:54:16 i don't know anything else 07:55:34 i know C and Common Lisp the best. the rest of my "languages" are toys; mostly academic pedagogy languages. i prototyped the server in Mozart/Oz, for example ;-) 07:56:27 :) good enough 07:57:00 brb, another cigarette 07:57:39 borism [n=boris@195-50-204-145-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 08:01:16 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-84.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:02:44 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:12 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-4210.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 08:04:35 mikesch [n=axel@tmo-104-178.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 08:05:28 -!- ejs [n=eugen@51-165-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:08:41 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-48-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:11:24 pina [n=asva@unaffiliated/pina] has joined #lisp 08:13:35 hi anyone worked on weather models in LISP 08:15:08 pina: what mathematical models do you need to do weather modeling? 08:15:17 simulation? 08:15:38 yes 08:18:32 tombom [n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 08:18:47 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:21:35 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 08:23:42 fusss: http://www-ad.fsl.noaa.gov/ac/sms.html 08:25:34 Uh, is it possible to take logs of big numbers? (~10^1000) I just got LOG: floating point overflow :P 08:25:36 you dog! that's allot of fun :-) 08:26:04 -!- mikesch [n=axel@tmo-104-178.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [] 08:27:45 How can I enable ASDF-INSTALL in Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.3-RC1-r11719M (LinuxX8664)? (find-package "ASDF-INSTALL") still returns NIL after (require "ASDF"). 08:28:33 vy: (require "asdf-install") or maybe (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :asdf-install) 08:28:39 asdf != asdf-install 08:29:34 ieee 64bits floating point numbers are limited to about 1E384 08:29:40 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:29:40 you might need to do (push #p"/path/to/asdf-install" asdf:*central-registery*) 08:29:43 fusss: I know, but (require "ASDF-INSTALL") complains that "Module ASDF-INSTALL was not provided by any function on *MODULE-PROVIDER-FUNCTIONS*." 08:30:31 vy: do that thing with the PUSH above, or put a link to your asdf-install.asd in site-systems (is that an sbcl-only thing?) 08:30:40 use asdf to load asdf-install, not require 08:30:42 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:30:44 c|mell [n=cmell@x250028.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 08:30:48 +1 guaqua 08:31:20 require only works on sbcl, i believe 08:31:20 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :asdf-install) => "component "asdf-install" not found" 08:31:26 I'll try that PUSH trick. 08:31:34 pina: you do that for fun/work/hobby? very cool stuff :-) 08:31:52 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 08:32:14 A few days ago someone here mentioned something about a program or extension to typeset source code with emacs for printing. I seem to recall something like pdoc or pcode or something, but those aren't it. Anyone have an idea what it was? 08:33:08 or not really source code, but more printing whole programs for reading 08:33:22 I think it was in a discussion of literate programming... 08:33:28 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:33:38 fusss: guaqua: No changes. 08:33:40 minion: help 08:33:41 There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 08:33:54 Doesn't anybody use ASDF-INSTALL with CCL? 08:33:58 apo_: clhs 12 08:34:12 vy: try #ccl, very low traffic though 08:34:34 vy: http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl/wiki/HintsForAsdfAndOpenmcl 08:34:44 minion: logs? 08:34:44 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 08:34:46 fusss: I read that page, nothing useful. 08:35:09 copy the systems you need by hand until you figure out how 08:35:14 apo_: clhs 12.1.3.3 specifies that irrational math functions return single float, so the implementation probably switchesd to single float early, which is limited to 1E38, I think. 08:36:52 kuwabara: Aw, that's annoying. 08:37:30 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6FAE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:44 apo_: but in the case of log, I think the implementation should make an effort to avoid this early switch. 08:38:57 -!- pina [n=asva@unaffiliated/pina] has quit [] 08:39:24 kuwabara: Apparently it's not making an effort ;) The number it dies on is only 538522340430300790495419781092981030533 :P 08:40:37 apo_: yes, just a bit over 1E38. I checked both clisp and sbcl, both convert too early. 08:41:44 kuwabara: cmucl works fine \o/ 08:42:41 MrSpec_ [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:43:00 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:18 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:44:17 mikesch [n=axel@static-87-79-66-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:49:43 openssl has got to be the most horrible command in unix 08:51:03 KingNato [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 08:51:54 ejs [n=eugen@181-75-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:12 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:57:16 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:57:41 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-161-244.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 08:57:59 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-119-164.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"] 08:58:37 apo_: sorry, I did a wrong test. sbcl works fine. I only hit the problem with clisp. 09:00:11 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:02:41 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:03:04 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-161-244.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:03:38 apo_: the spec is lame. It forces all implementation to fail on (exp 89), making common lisp the only language on earth to have this limitation. 09:03:57 sykopomp: that info about plugins that was noted here last night was really interesting. 09:04:09 madnificent: plugins? 09:04:24 redshank 09:07:46 yeah, redshank is neat 09:08:07 I don't put it to -that- much use, but it's nice to have around. It certainly makes the whole emacs+lisp combo feel much more complete. 09:09:18 -!- benny` is now known as benny 09:09:38 is there a site like cliki that groups all the slime extensions? 09:09:46 lsl [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:59 -!- lsl changed the topic of #lisp to: common fuckheads! get laid assholes! 09:10:22 -!- lsl [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 09:10:28 cliki has that stuff, iirc 09:11:48 sykopomp: link? 09:12:51 pina [n=pins@unaffiliated/pina] has joined #lisp 09:12:51 oh strange. There's no wiki page for redshank 09:13:04 http://www.cliki.net/development But usually, this stuff is listed here. 09:14:57 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 09:15:53 -!- felipe changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.27, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.14, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 09:16:00 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:16:14 what was added? 09:16:24 (changed) 09:17:05 just reverted it to what it was, the original seemed better than "common fuckheads! get laid assholes!" 09:17:45 -!- myrkraverk` is now known as myrkraverk 09:17:45 -!- pina [n=pins@unaffiliated/pina] has left #lisp 09:18:27 jilo [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:47 -!- jilo changed the topic of #lisp to: Common virgins! 09:18:48 -!- jilo [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 09:19:22 pina [n=pins@unaffiliated/pina] has joined #lisp 09:20:36 ilanor [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:50 -!- felipe changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.27, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.14, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 09:20:51 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 09:20:55 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483C502.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:57 -!- ilanor changed the topic of #lisp to: dickheads 09:21:00 -!- ilanor [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 09:21:06 -!- felipe changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.27, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.14, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 09:21:37 ivkeksa [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:48 -!- ivkeksa changed the topic of #lisp to: Hunchentoot your mom felipe! 09:21:48 any ops around feel free to deal :) 09:22:00 -!- ivkeksa [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 09:22:10 -!- felipe changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.27, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.14, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 09:22:49 Jonas [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:53 -!- Jonas changed the topic of #lisp to: Hunchentoot your mom felipe! 09:22:55 -!- Jonas [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 09:23:00 -!- felipe changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.27, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.14, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 09:23:06 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 09:23:08 this could be fun 09:23:08 kleor [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:11 -!- kleor changed the topic of #lisp to: Hunchentoot your mom felipe! 09:23:20 yes it is 09:23:25 -!- kleor [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 09:23:39 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!*thing@*.cdi.no 09:23:59 -!- Krystof changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.27, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.14, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 09:24:23 we really need a larger channel ban list 09:24:53 -!- Krystof has set mode +t 09:25:03 someone remind me to turn that off in a while 09:25:07 satire [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:15 -!- satire [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 09:25:20 thanks Krystof 09:25:28 t [i=tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 09:25:32 hi 09:26:00 n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net has been abusing the topic 09:26:07 so I hear 09:26:15 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-251.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:26:22 also, could we have a larger channel ban list? 09:26:34 Is in lisp any similar function to delete? I need something which deletes first found element, and then stop, as my list is huge. should I write my own delete* ? 09:26:38 :count 1 09:26:55 heh, thx 09:28:35 jikkel [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:37 Krystof: I can look into the large ban list a bit later. I only dropped in while at work in case there was still a problem 09:28:47 tomaw sucks my balllllllllllls 09:28:49 tomaw sucks my balllllllllllls 09:28:50 tomaw sucks my balllllllllllls 09:28:51 tomaw sucks my balllllllllllls 09:28:51 tomaw sucks my balllllllllllls 09:28:52 tomaw sucks my balllllllllllls 09:28:52 tomaw sucks my balllllllllllls 09:28:52 tomaw sucks my balllllllllllls 09:28:54 tomaw sucks my balllllllllllls 09:28:55 -!- jikkel [n=geek@adsl-99-49-17-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [K-lined] 09:29:01 I guess that works too 09:29:06 snort 09:29:13 what? tomaw isn't even here... :( 09:29:26 madnificent: t <-- 09:29:27 thanks 09:29:38 t: thanks for that :) 09:29:45 strange character :) 09:29:53 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-132-3.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:30:02 sykopomp: oh 09:30:16 -!- ejs [n=eugen@181-75-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:30:33 goodnight, #lisp 09:31:13 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-219.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:31:47 good night sykopomp 09:31:57 -!- Krystof has set mode -o Krystof 09:32:38 madnificent: I am tomaw :) 09:32:53 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:34:47 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 09:35:11 zonare [n=salt@222.133.234.72] has joined #lisp 09:35:15 hi 09:35:30 THEY SAY TOMAW SUCKS MY BALLS! 09:35:30 THEY SAY TOMAW SUCKS MY BALLS! 09:35:30 THEY SAY TOMAW SUCKS MY BALLS! 09:35:30 THEY SAY TOMAW SUCKS MY BALLS! 09:35:32 hi 09:35:32 THEY SAY TOMAW SUCKS MY BALLS! 09:35:32 THEY SAY TOMAW SUCKS MY BALLS! 09:35:34 THEY SAY TOMAW SUCKS MY BALLS! 09:35:36 THEY SAY TOMAW SUCKS MY BALLS! 09:35:38 THEY SAY TOMAW SUCKS MY BALLS! 09:35:40 THEY SAY TOMAW SUCKS MY BALLS! 09:35:41 -!- zonare [n=salt@222.133.234.72] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:36:25 What could possibly be the attraction of behaving like that. 09:38:58 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:40:09 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 09:41:25 sigh 09:43:41 -!- pina [n=pins@unaffiliated/pina] has quit [] 09:47:33 -!- reerecting [n=outl@c-66-229-114-224.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:48:30 -!- vng [n=vuong@222.253.61.57] has left #lisp 09:50:21 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 09:50:40 Pocket [n=Pocket78@p2169-ipbf1611hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:51:19 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 09:57:46 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:58:13 wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 10:03:08 which mapping function would do this: ( #'1+ '((1 2 3) (4 5))) -> ((2 3 4) (5 6)) ? 10:04:31 isn't there a preview on cliki? 10:04:42 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.101.94] has quit ["this is not a quit message"] 10:05:24 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:06:12 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:06:12 kami-: (defun kamismap (fn list) (mapcar (lambda (list) (mapcar fn list)) list)) 10:07:39 kami-: what should it do on '((1 2 3) ((4) ((5 6)))) ? 10:07:56 Krystof: thank you. Didn't want to miss some built-in function. 10:08:22 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-4210.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:08:51 kuwabara: it operates always on a list of lists. no further nesting. 10:09:24 -!- Pocket [n=Pocket78@p2169-ipbf1611hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has left #lisp 10:10:22 kuwabara: would I have to write a tree-mapping function for what you gave as input? 10:15:22 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-941.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 10:17:08 kami-: probably 10:17:25 shelducks [n=gift@86.147.64.149] has joined #lisp 10:18:47 kami: well if you want tre mapping then you want arbitrary deep nesting, yes.. So Krystof's function won't work 10:19:12 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-118-26.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:20:19 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-134-57.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:20:21 You would also need to recusivily vall the fun if it's is consp 10:20:23 younder: yes, thanks. Krystof's function works with a list of lists (and that's what I asked for). 10:22:04 fine then 10:25:21 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:36 -!- manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:33:40 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:33:49 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-219.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:33:58 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-219.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:35:32 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:50 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6FAE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:40:12 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 10:40:33 fiveop [n=fiveop@217.230.250.231] has joined #lisp 10:42:37 -!- shelducks [n=gift@86.147.64.149] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:37 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:37 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:37 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@213.98.123.31] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:37 -!- deech [n=deech@71-10-166-226.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:37 -!- kidd [n=user@79.150.112.60] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:37 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:37 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:37 -!- kidd1 [n=kidd@60.Red-79-150-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:37 -!- koning_robot [n=aap@213.93.244.75] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:42:41 kidd [n=user@60.Red-79-150-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:45 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@student167-193.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 10:42:49 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:49 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:42:55 deech [n=deech@71.10.166.226] has joined #lisp 10:43:04 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:20 shelducks [n=gift@host86-147-64-149.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:43:35 koning_r1bot [n=aap@e244075.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 10:43:53 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:16 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-181.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 10:44:22 kidd1 [n=kidd@60.Red-79-150-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:44 cracki [n=cracki@46-147.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:47:06 -!- MrSpec_ is now known as mrSpec 10:48:30 HET3 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:50:55 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:54:55 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 10:55:30 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:55:53 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:59:51 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:07:37 manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88.96.24.54] has joined #lisp 11:07:37 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:10:28 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 11:16:30 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:17:14 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 11:22:00 -!- PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:22:59 kami-` [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 11:23:06 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:23:55 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:24:11 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:24:58 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@134.184.43.85] has joined #lisp 11:25:34 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-132-3.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:26:28 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 11:27:15 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-233.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:31:22 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E2C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:45 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:39:01 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 11:39:04 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:52:30 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:52:30 -!- manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88.96.24.54] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:54:51 manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:54:51 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:03:35 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:03:38 Good afternoon. 12:03:45 hello plage 12:04:01 -!- kami-` is now known as kami- 12:07:31 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:41 Jasko3 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:09:58 -!- HET3 is now known as HET2 12:12:58 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 12:13:00 deliana [n=deliana@147.210.246.189] has joined #lisp 12:14:37 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 12:16:50 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:18:12 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 12:19:25 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 12:19:39 'hi 12:25:49 Ragnaroek [i=8f5df956@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c51c16f7a604846c] has joined #lisp 12:26:50 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 12:27:03 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-213-150.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:27 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.232.120] has joined #lisp 12:30:37 wchogg [n=wchogg@216.165.144.151] has joined #lisp 12:33:26 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:37:01 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1176023512.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 12:39:03 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-79-111.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:39:25 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 12:39:27 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 12:39:55 hello 12:40:36 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 12:40:46 hello fe[nl]ix ;) 12:40:47 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:55 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 12:41:36 hello trebor_dki 12:42:05 frank_s_ [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has joined #lisp 12:42:51 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 12:44:20 matimago- [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:27 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:47:38 il y en a qui n'arrivent pas à faire du vélo tout droit (vous pouvez passer la 1ère minute): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19zFlPah-o 12:48:17 kuwabara: wrong channel 12:48:52 sorry all 12:50:27 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 12:50:36 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:50:45 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:51:08 sellout [n=greg@24.128.50.176] has joined #lisp 12:51:10 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:51:27 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 12:51:32 boyscare1 [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:59 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 12:52:52 alec [n=alec@pool-96-233-16-99.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:43 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-189-160.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:17 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 12:55:18 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has left #lisp 12:55:19 a stupid question, but: is there someway to hack up interpreted behaviour if all you have is a compiler? can this be done within CL itself or do you have to go down under the hoods? (i dont know anything about interpreters) 12:57:23 use eval 12:57:41 what in particular are you looking for in your interpreted behaviour? 12:58:37 hypno: read L.i.S.P. - implement your CL interpreter. 12:58:55 Krystof: i dont want my macros to be expanded and compiled in my functions. i write a lot of support code with macros, and i rather have the new behaviour enforced automatically by my functions. 12:59:30 ie: i do not want to recompile individual functions and whatever that rely on some macros after i've changed it. 13:00:13 unless your macros are very sophisticated, the usual trick is to do (defmacro with-foo ((&rest args) &body body) `(invoke-with-foo (lambda () ,@body) ,@args)) 13:00:35 Even interpreters may do the minimal compilation at defun time. 13:00:58 then you change the behaviour of with-foo by recompiling invoke-with-foo, and users of with-foo will automatically use the new invoke-with-foo 13:01:48 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:02:34 hypno: So you really want a interpreter. How about delveloping it in CMUCL? 13:02:35 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:02:40 Krystof: oh, right. that is pretty cool, thanks. 13:04:05 -!- frank_s_ [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:04:08 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-219.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:05:01 younder: actually, i got used to it with lispworks, but this stuff is with scl for variety of reasons. 13:05:04 cmucl is a bad choice in this case, because it contains no interpreter at all. 13:05:22 (in the sense that hypno means it, anyway) 13:05:49 i think there was some special hack to cmucl that you can use if you want said behvaiour, but i'm not using cmucl so... 13:05:53 no, there isn't 13:05:59 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:49 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 13:06:50 cmucl contains both a interpreter and a compiler, what are you talking about 13:07:00 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-213-150.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:08:11 cmucl doesn't have a pure interpreter. it only has various compilers 13:08:29 Anyhow a interperter in this case means a function that expands macroes at run-time. 13:08:31 what you think of as an interpreter compiles the source to bytecode, and then evaluates that bytecode 13:08:39 younder: what I am talking about is that the cmucl "interpreter" minimally-compiles (and transforms into IR1) before interpreting 13:09:01 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:09:05 so there is no repeated macroexpansion in cmucl "interpreted-functions" (which are in fact TYPEP compiled-function) 13:09:05 In this case byte-code compilers should serve you welll 13:09:10 Krystof: is your code for adding clefs in the middle of a staff in CVS? 13:09:24 I don't think I've ever had clefs in the middle of a staff 13:09:31 we are about to commit code for adding time signatures 13:09:43 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 13:09:47 Krystof: You added some zero-duration object in a melody. 13:09:51 key signatures 13:09:54 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 13:10:01 ah, ok. 13:10:05 and that's in CVS? 13:10:07 yes 13:10:13 #\K inserts a key signature 13:10:43 why? 13:10:56 I'm writing to the person who actually has the time-signature code ready to go right now 13:11:04 Krystof: i checked my notes, it was the FLUSH-INTERPRETED-FUNCTION-CACHE-thingy i was thinking about, but your point well taken. thanks. 13:11:32 white-rabbit-obj [n=cpc5@cpe-67-241-171-153.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:35 Krystof: just trying to add a differnt zero-duration object. 13:11:36 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Client Quit] 13:12:18 droogie` [n=user@88.238.223.54] has joined #lisp 13:13:13 By the way didnt you, jsnell, add a interpreter for SBCL? 13:13:37 I never heard anything more about it. 13:13:46 spiaggia: ok, cool. Which? 13:15:16 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:15:17 younder: it's still there; there's a way to activate it :) 13:16:53 hypno: thanks, that thing is new on me 13:17:41 spiaggia: if the zero-element duration element in question is basically like a key signature or a clef or a time signature, you may want to hold off for just a moment 13:18:07 we're introducing a common superclass for common behaviour 13:18:56 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 13:21:20 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:22:03 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:19 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 13:27:53 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 13:28:45 -!- droogie [n=user@88.238.219.45] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:45 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:05 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-132-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:31:28 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 13:31:40 frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has joined #lisp 13:31:44 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 13:36:29 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:36:46 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@nmd.sbx14502.ashbuva.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:19 rolly1975 [n=rory@174.389.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:37:24 -!- manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 13:38:13 antgreen [n=Anthony@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:18 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:41:30 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250028.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:46:19 -!- cracki [n=cracki@46-147.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:48:37 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-48-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:48:52 Davidbrcz [n=david@83.195.214.73] has joined #lisp 13:49:21 Krystof: Ah, OK. 13:50:01 Krystof: It's a special "interactor" element that Antoine's petri-net compiler is going to use to allow the user to interact with the score. 13:50:56 ... ok. :-) 13:51:30 (might be tricky to support in MusicXML output ;-) 13:52:16 if it's just another layer element but zero-duration, then you don't need to worry too much about our patch 13:52:40 if it has some kind of staffwise existence (like a clef or a key signature) that's different 13:52:50 Krystof: No, it b 13:52:52 er 13:53:03 -!- Ragnaroek [i=8f5df956@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c51c16f7a604846c] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 13:53:19 it might have a non-zero physical dimension, but no interaction with the rest, as far as I can see. 13:53:27 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:38 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 13:56:30 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:53 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:02 what's the easiest way to go from an int to a char? (inverse of char-int really) 13:58:18 int-char 13:58:29 isn't that removed? 13:58:30 c|mell [n=cmell@x250008.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:58:38 or code-char 13:58:46 (inverse of char-code) 13:58:56 char-int isn't desperately well-defined; you _probably_ want char-code/code-char 13:59:35 frank_s_ [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has joined #lisp 14:00:27 thanks! 14:02:04 legumbre` [n=user@r190-135-36-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:03:21 char-int is deprecated (CLTL1) 14:06:37 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-245.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:09:45 sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 14:10:34 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-129-241.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:12:21 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 14:15:31 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:16:20 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 14:16:33 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:17:05 -!- ASau` [n=user@host118-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:17:19 -!- droogie` [n=user@88.238.223.54] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:17:30 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-23-238.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:17:40 droogie` [n=user@88.238.223.54] has joined #lisp 14:18:03 gdoko [n=gdoko@albalug/gdk] has joined #lisp 14:18:11 -!- droogie` [n=user@88.238.223.54] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:18:41 test pasted "test" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78891 14:19:17 -!- gdoko [n=gdoko@albalug/gdk] has left #lisp 14:20:25 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:29 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:20:33 -!- Jasko3 is now known as Jasko 14:22:05 willb [n=wibenton@wireless11.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:22:45 -!- frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:24:57 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:25:04 -!- mikesch [n=axel@static-87-79-66-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:28:23 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 14:28:32 Greetings! 14:30:20 hey tmh 14:33:16 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E2C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:33:19 hi, is it possible to use a value from the slime debugger/inspector in an expression? i'd like to do a (compute-applicaple-methods on an argument list that the gives me on a generic function but don't know how to proceed 14:33:51 jlf` [n=user@adsl-99-137-140-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:31 robewald_: yes, bidirectional RPC between the swank process and the slime emacs is possible. 14:34:41 M-RET in the inspector, I believe. 14:34:59 probably needs presentations, though. 14:35:04 http://paste.lisp.org/display/22414 14:35:11 robewald_: ^ 14:35:58 But you should probably better stay in the lisp image. In this case, you can use the MOP I think. 14:37:33 robewald_: (defgeneric g (x) (:method ((x cons)) (1+ (g (cdr x)))) (:method ((x null)) 0)) (values (compute-applicable-methods (function g) '((a b c))) (compute-applicable-methods (function g) '(nil))) ; see, no need for slime here. 14:37:58 ahh, yes of course. 14:38:38 -!- wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:40:00 point is that I don't know the techniques of interactive debugging when my program drops into the debugger. Especially when I want to find out why my method is not called. 14:40:32 BTW I am on sbcl on linux. 14:41:43 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@134.184.43.85] has quit [] 14:42:20 'debugging in slime' would be a nice addendum screencast to marco's original slime movie. 14:43:28 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@134.184.43.85] has joined #lisp 14:43:45 +1 14:45:02 robewald_: compile your code with ... (optimize (debug 3)) ..., then put (break "here i am") and then step using the debugger. 14:45:56 Numlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 14:46:44 (oh, i fear this was a novice-level-answer to an advanced-level-question) 14:48:09 in (let* ((var1 form1) (var2 form2)) (declare (special var1 ... Is var1 already available as special during form2 evaluation ? 14:48:22 kuwabara: yes. 14:49:07 pkhuong: I already observed it, but I wanted confirmation it's conforming. 14:49:09 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:49:12 pkhuong: thanks. 14:50:37 M-RET does not need presentations, but the slime-repl contrib 14:51:46 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 14:56:39 -!- addled is now known as adlirc 14:57:16 -!- adlirc is now known as addled 14:58:38 frank_s__ [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has joined #lisp 15:00:38 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@nmd.sbx14502.ashbuva.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:01:19 Numlock_ [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:01:51 ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 15:02:52 trebor_dki: hehe, yes it is. But don't worry; I feel like a newbe quite often :) 15:03:01 hi, is it possible to somehow specify foreign key in postmodern? Like this (it doesn't work) (defclass foo () ((bar :col-type integer :foreign-key (other-table id) )) (:metaclass dao-class)) 15:03:35 I know it is possible with a handwritten (sql (:create-table ......)) statement, but I would like to have it inside of the defclass 15:05:31 tcr: you are right. I did (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 15:07:06 -!- Numlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:07:52 droogy [n=user@88.238.223.54] has joined #lisp 15:11:41 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 15:12:08 ignotus: you could also just alter the table and add the constraint after it's been created 15:12:12 i have a function that generates a list consisting of random coordinates, and another function to draw lines between coordinates in a canvas in ltk, if i first run coordinate generator function and copy the output in the other function by hand, it works just as i need, but when i use the generator directly in the second, it only draws a line, do you have any idea of what am i doing wrong? 15:12:19 antifuchs: I see, thanks 15:12:43 droogy: I suspect that you are doing something wrong. 15:13:38 Zhivago: but surely there is a problem :) 15:13:48 I suspect programmer malfunction. 15:14:54 Replace the programmer with one which can ask intelligent questions, and try again. 15:15:37 -!- beach` is now known as beach 15:15:40 -!- frank_s_ [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:16:07 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 15:16:26 Zhivago: thank you so much i will, would you recommend an intellegent programmer since i'm not even a programmer 15:16:45 Hmm, tricky ... 15:16:46 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 15:17:10 If you use MACROEXPAND-1 on a macro you've written, are there any cases where it will not expand to the same form on different implementations? 15:17:12 pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has joined #lisp 15:17:33 <_3b> tmh: ` expansion is implementation defined 15:18:09 <_3b> droogy: put some example code on lisppaste and we might be able to help more 15:18:16 <_3b> lisppaste: url 15:18:16 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 15:18:38 I have difficulty seeing how that scenario could be non-deterministic. 15:18:53 tmh: Sure, if what it expands to depends on some implementation-defined feature. 15:19:35 Well, he did say 'macro you've written' and macroexpand-1 ... 15:19:52 (defmacro foo (bar) (if (> most-positiv-fixnum x) `(..) `(...))) 15:19:56 milanj [n=milan@93.86.52.45] has joined #lisp 15:20:26 Hmm, I'm trying to generate a unit test for a macro I've written. But, it just occurred to me that I'm using GENSYM, so that will always cause the test to fail. 15:20:31 ok i will, thanks :) 15:22:27 spiaggia: ok, the time signatures code is now committed 15:22:36 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 15:22:42 <_3b> tmh: shouldn't be too hard to write a comparison function that takes uninterned symbols into account 15:22:46 Great! Thanks. 15:23:22 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 15:24:13 deliana: You might want to update Gsharp from CVS. 15:25:13 -!- Numlock_ [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:26:27 _3b: I think that's what I'll need to do, modify the unit test assertion to ignore uninterned symbols. But, that is outside the scope of what I want/need to get done today, so I'll add it to the TODO list, skip that test and plow ahead. 15:26:41 I have a macro like (defmacro foo (&body body) ...) how can I make slime to indent this in the proper way? Now it is like this "(foo\n__bar\n____baz\n____fux\n...) I would like bar baz fux (etc) on the same identitation level 15:26:57 <_3b> tmh: don't ignore them, you need to make sure both sides have them in the same place, and reuse them at the same places 15:27:31 <_3b> tmh: for a quick hack, you might just bind gensym counter around the expansion, and see if they print the same :) 15:28:19 _3b: Ah, yes, but I like the quick hack idea. 15:28:31 Principle of least effort. 15:28:46 <_3b> probably want print-readably and print-circle on as well, and make sure print-level and depth aren't cutting thing soff 15:28:52 ignotus: Could you paste how it looks now, and how you want it to be, please? 15:29:02 <_3b> be sure to mark it as needing a real solution though :) 15:29:11 tcr: yes of course, one sec 15:29:31 -!- tombom [n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 15:29:41 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-56.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:30:32 thanks! 15:31:11 I don't see the point of that test, though. 15:31:28 tcr: ahm, during creating an example I noticed that I get this type of indentitation only with macros named "with-foo" 15:31:30 you're pretty much making sure you haven't changed the implementation. 15:31:52 _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B61C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:32:03 rudi [n=rudi@mail.ist.tu-graz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 15:32:21 -!- rudi [n=rudi@mail.ist.tu-graz.ac.at] has quit [Client Quit] 15:32:34 ignotus: That should not depend on the macro's name. How recent is your slime version? 15:33:09 tcr: feb 11 15:33:25 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:36 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-183-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:33:52 ignotus: Ok, provide a test case, please 15:34:02 pkhuong: Good point, I struggled with that. I want something in place that will check this macro, but as you've noted, this doesn't really check anything, other than I know how to copy and paste text. 15:34:28 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:34:40 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:48 pkhuong: As a proxy, I have tests on functions that use the macro and thought that would be sufficient. Maybe it is. 15:35:09 ig pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78896 15:35:14 tmh: what must this macro do? Maybe you should answer that question, and then test those things? 15:35:30 tcr: http://paste.lisp.org/display/78896 15:35:38 tcr: please check that out 15:36:34 ignotus might have some remnants of older configuations in his .emacs. 15:36:46 pkhuong: nods:-o 15:37:03 <_3b> pkhuong: 'making sure i hadn't changed the implementation' was pretty much the motivation for thinking up that hack :p never got around to actually implementing it though 15:37:20 (put 'with 'common-lisp-indent-function 1) 15:37:21 argh 15:38:12 Krystof: Hmm, that's correct, I was having trouble thinking of metrics, but one just occurred to me. 15:38:23 -!- antgreen [n=Anthony@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 15:39:09 -!- droogy [n=user@88.238.223.54] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:39:32 ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:16 tcr, pkhuong: yes I had (load "cl-indent") for some obsolete reasons, that's caused the problem, thanks 15:41:24 *tmh* needs to finish off his first cup of coffee. 15:41:43 I think I have a one cup minimum on productive thought. 15:42:18 Coffee is probably the main reason I go to the lab. 15:43:33 it sucks tho to be dependable on it. these days, without coffe, waking up is almost synonymous with suicidal. 15:43:50 ignotus: I'll look into it the days comming. 15:46:01 *_3b* needs to quit coffee again soon, building up too much tolerance/dependency :( 15:48:22 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-249-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:51:10 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:51:42 -!- jlf` [n=user@adsl-99-137-140-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:52:43 hypno: it doesn't need to be suicidale, but it must be a slow startup. Usually, people try to wake up and be instantaneously ready. That's the problem. 15:53:33 <_3b> matimago-: it is also very painful for the first few times :/ 15:53:46 *stassats* wakes up and immediately checks e-mail 15:54:02 could be worse 15:54:09 reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:54:12 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:16 matimago-: heh, yeah. silence and easy going, alright. but it's the addiction that concerns me. 15:54:17 if you woke up and immediately checked _twitter_, that would be very bad 15:54:29 rpg [n=rpg@97-127-64-16.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:50 <_3b> nah, just wear earphones and have it read to you while you sleep 15:55:05 heh 15:55:09 rsynnott: Oh, I do. I'm a big fan of Ashton Kutcher 15:55:09 fortunately, i have never used twitter 15:55:41 stassats: same here. i barely know what that is. :) 15:55:42 *_3b* followed the recent lisp conference twittering a bit 15:56:00 (more-sarcasm "I have the twitter fed to my phone as text messages.") 15:56:13 <_3b> found the 30 sec page loads combined with the proudly placed '0.5sec' at the top amusing :) 15:57:04 clearly, the server is travelling close to the speed of light 15:57:17 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-28-26.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:28 <_3b> could just be falling into a black hole 15:58:06 phytovor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-1-7.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:09 though I'm not sure that '0.5 seconds' for what, when it comes to it, is 6 lines of text about nothing, is that impressive 15:58:12 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:58:29 Spooky action at a distance 15:59:21 <_3b> it was probably time spent on a db query or something... ok to put at the bottom for debugging or whatever, but placing it prominently when the rest of the site is slow is a bit silly 16:02:29 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.232.120] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:04:33 -!- ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:04:37 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:05:40 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:06:58 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:34 maniacxs [n=me@p5B21AAB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:13 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-189-160.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:12:17 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:13:53 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:28 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:18:31 tmh: I started reading your document. 16:19:15 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:32 LiamH: Thanks, I have an April 15 revision that is a major revision of the vectors. I've gone back and organized the vectors into a VECTOR-OBJECT with a DATA-VECTOR subclass further subclassed with COLUMN-VECTOR and ROW-VECTOR. Otherwise, the interface hasn't changed. I'm working on the unit testing at this very moment. How far have you gotten? 16:20:55 First three chapters. 16:21:19 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-161-244.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:21:21 What are your thoughts? 16:21:30 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:21:34 I don't know when I'll be able to get back to it but I'll keep plugging away at it. 16:22:04 I am collecting my thoughts into notes, I will try to write up some comments when I get done, and I'll mail them to you. 16:22:36 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:42 Thanks, I really appreciate it. 16:23:42 rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-934b4c6b859b49f7] has joined #lisp 16:24:03 LiamH: Do you subscribe to NA Digest? 16:24:14 No, what is that? 16:25:10 It's a weekly email with Numerical Analysis related announcements and discussions. 16:25:41 like sci.math.numerical-analysis? 16:26:07 oops s.m.num-analysis 16:26:35 Last week Jack Dongarra posted a link to an updated survey of linear algebra software. This week there was an announcement of an update to a commercial math software for .NET that looked similar to what I'm trying to do in CL. 16:27:18 Perhaps, I don't subscribe to that. This is a legacy digest started by the guys at Netlib. 16:27:37 It actually has some pretty good stuff. I'll forward you the last couple weeks. 16:28:58 OK 16:29:40 It's currently edited by Tamara G. Kolda at Sandia. 16:30:16 Ragnaroek [i=54a6597d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9f02786bab3b7111] has joined #lisp 16:31:17 antgreen1 [n=green@nat/redhat/x-66c03fb0d28dd0fd] has joined #lisp 16:31:49 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-132-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:32:08 When I get a useful version of the linear algebra library in CL, I'll probably send NA Digest an announcement, despite the fact that I doubt any of them use CL. Might motivate some to learn. :-) 16:32:49 considering the history of lisp in math software, I'be surprised if a lot of them weren't at least past lisp users. 16:33:03 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:33:25 Fade: maxima represents matrices with lists. We might not be talking about the same "math". 16:33:42 heh. axiom is built in lisp, too! 16:33:51 emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:34:01 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@134.184.43.85] has quit [] 16:34:09 hello lispers! 16:34:27 Greetings, emacsphan. 16:35:06 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 16:39:52 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:41:07 -!- maniacxs [n=me@p5B21AAB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 16:41:24 -!- Jarv2 is now known as djarvelis 16:41:36 -!- mjonsson [n=mjonsson@66-234-42-75.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:41:38 -!- shelducks [n=gift@host86-147-64-149.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:43:39 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has joined #lisp 16:48:03 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:48:48 ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:49 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 16:50:21 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:50:39 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-132-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:52:39 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 16:56:45 did anyone else ever start complaining about the (relatively recently occuring) ridiculously slow large compiles with sbcl/emacs/slime or is it just me? 16:57:38 *_3b* i ssuffering from slow compiles, but assumed it was due to a way-too-complex macro expansion 16:58:27 mikesch_ [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-50-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:51 no, something happened in the last couple months such that, say, a full compile of mcclim takes ages, but if one does the same thing just from sbcl directly (no slime/emacs) it's still fast. 16:59:24 <_3b> trying without slime to see if that helps with my code... 17:00:06 slyrus_: Slime's buffering was rewritten. 17:00:10 <_3b> nope, still slow :( 17:00:18 *_3b* should really fix that at some point 17:01:17 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 17:03:02 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:03:43 Krystof:hi. I cvs uped gsharp and adding key signature (pressing # 17:04:19 Krystof:K seems not to work 17:05:17 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:05:45 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 17:06:33 deliana: try just typing K 17:06:50 beach: that's what I'm doing 17:06:53 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [] 17:07:06 OK, let me try it myself... 17:07:11 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:20 i just pressed return instead of \ in irc 17:10:01 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:10:18 I see. OK, so here is how you can see how it works: Fire up Gsharp, then type a few Shift-Meta-# or Shift-Meta-@ This should change the main key signature. Now type a few notes, like ggg, then type a K. You now have a new key signature that you can edit with Shift-Meta-@ and Shift-Meta-# 17:12:46 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-249-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:13:20 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [] 17:14:02 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 17:16:16 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:16:54 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has left #lisp 17:16:59 -!- boyscare1 is now known as boyscared 17:17:10 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:17:45 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@83.195.214.73] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:18:12 deliana: Did that do it? 17:18:39 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-204.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:18:43 *Krystof* fixes 6-year-old bugs in clx 17:19:05 Yay! 17:19:13 beach: i still got the same behaviour, so i exited all slimes and am compiling it again 17:20:38 ok that helped 17:21:45 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 17:23:34 pkhuong: This morning I woke up at 2am and started thinking about "bit-reversal" for FFTs of other radix values than 2. It gets interesting because there are cycles of permutation that are now longer than 2. 17:24:47 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-48-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:25:46 bobbysmith0071 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:27 *beach* vanishes. 17:30:06 -!- HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has quit [Client Quit] 17:31:21 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:32:34 tombom [n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 17:33:31 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 17:37:06 bobbysmith0072 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:21 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:37:29 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:40:49 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:41:44 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:42:43 ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:43:00 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:25 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:43:30 -!- ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 17:44:46 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-219-207.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:52 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-17-48.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 17:45:07 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:45:33 sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 17:46:53 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.103.201] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:55:06 -!- HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:55:20 -!- bobbysmith0071 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:25 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-8-93.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:30 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:56:07 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 17:56:28 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 18:00:03 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-20d3dc61af3b6664] has joined #lisp 18:03:07 -!- emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:03:19 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 18:05:13 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-16.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:35 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:05:40 -!- holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:05:44 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:06:56 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:07:19 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 18:08:34 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-28-26.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:14 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-219-207.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:10:26 -!- ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:10:46 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:10:56 HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has joined #lisp 18:12:21 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-132-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:12:42 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless11.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:15:47 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-16.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:16:13 mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 18:17:26 -!- mikesch_ [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-50-168.netcologne.de] has left #lisp 18:17:27 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-9-78.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:59 crimson13 [n=chatzill@dD5766A8B.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:23:04 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:07 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:25:14 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:56 jao [n=jao@55.Red-88-15-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:24 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:22 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-90-189-158.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:39 willb [n=wibenton@144.92.98.43] has joined #lisp 18:33:11 ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:22 -!- crimson13 [n=chatzill@dD5766A8B.access.telenet.be] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"] 18:34:23 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:35:22 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:37:11 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 18:37:15 -!- willb [n=wibenton@144.92.98.43] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:37:26 -!- rpg [n=rpg@97-127-64-16.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [] 18:38:01 -!- s0ber [i=pie@114-45-225-243.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:39:23 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:39:44 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 18:40:25 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-9-78.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:44:12 -!- ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:45:12 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:29 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:45:35 s0ber [i=pie@118-168-234-228.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:46 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:46 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E2C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:38 -!- deliana [n=deliana@147.210.246.189] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:05 reetings! anyone familiar with raw bdb api without object store semantics, like elephant? clisp has it as a module, and paul foley wrote one for cmucl (which i can port myself to sb-alien) just wanted general feedback if someone knows anything else. 18:47:09 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:47:39 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:49:14 Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:49:38 -!- jao [n=jao@55.Red-88-15-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 18:50:19 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:51:19 willb [n=wibenton@144.92.79.150] has joined #lisp 18:51:47 ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:58 *lichtblau* used paul foley's code on allegro years ago 18:53:00 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:53:24 I'd never use BDB again though, now that SQLite exists. 18:53:34 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:54:44 manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:54:44 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:54:49 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-169-122.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:47 -!- manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:55:52 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:56:14 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-188-098-194-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:07 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:59:02 lichtblau: i understand your sentiments; sqlite3 "powers" a cms for me :-) 19:00:41 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:00:52 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:02:21 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-132-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:02:21 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-181.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:02:47 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:02:52 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:04:01 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:05:43 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-169-122.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:22 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-175.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:11:52 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.239.248] has joined #lisp 19:12:05 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-169-122.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:12:31 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:50 telebyte_ [n=t@77-58-154-13.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:13:00 tombom_ [n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 19:16:53 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:17:05 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:18:46 -!- ejs [n=eugen@83-87-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:19:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:03 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:22:17 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 19:22:36 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:28:09 -!- telebyte_ is now known as telebyte 19:29:49 -!- tombom [n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:29:49 -!- tombom_ is now known as tombom 19:33:16 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.239.248] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:34:00 -!- _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B61C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:34:01 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:34:03 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.239.248] has joined #lisp 19:34:47 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-3-226.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:50 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:35:22 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:36:39 leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:36:53 sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDA8E90.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:11 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 19:40:20 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 19:41:08 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 19:41:23 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has left #lisp 19:43:03 telebyte_ [n=t@193.247.250.13] has joined #lisp 19:43:40 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:45:17 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@216.165.144.151] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:45:27 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:47:25 linuxer [n=linuxer@94.96.184.161] has joined #lisp 19:48:16 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250008.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:48:52 josemanuel [n=josemanu@129.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:50:07 c|mell [n=cmell@x250002.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 19:50:47 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [No route to host] 19:52:24 are there any formal language people in here who want to give me a hand with a problem regarding regular languages? 19:55:22 ampleyfly: I can give it a shot, I just had a comp theory class though, so no guarantees 19:55:32 I have two regular languages, (01)* and (10)*. I apply the "shuffle" operation on them, and want to know the resulting language L. The shuffle operation for strings works like shuffling a deck of cards, mixing the strings but retaining the order of symbols in each string (ab || c = {abc, acb, bac}). On languages, it does this for each string of language a with each string of language b. 19:55:37 I'm not a grad student 19:55:54 uh 19:56:06 ? 19:56:08 that's supposed to be ab || c = {abc, acb, cab} 19:56:09 =) 19:56:52 so, I think I have a regular expression for the resulting language L, but I'd like it if someone could confirm it. 19:57:07 I'll try. 19:57:10 ampleyfly: work with NFAs. 19:57:44 pkhuong: does it need a NFA? 19:57:52 Adamant: it's simpler that way. 19:57:55 ah 19:58:02 The cosntruction is much simpler. 19:58:07 pkhuong: that's what I'm told to do, but I'm not sure how, and I think I found the regex anyway... 19:58:25 francogrex [n=franco@249.226-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:58:37 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 19:58:39 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:06 ampleyfly: with the NFA you can build a generic construction for any regular language, and the correctness proof will be cute and simple. 20:00:41 pkhuong: I just don't see how to describe the shuffle with a NFA 20:00:50 Hi, I've pasted http://paste.lisp.org/display/78913 20:01:02 using the DFA of the two original languages of course 20:01:16 I appreciate a help on getting rid of trainlg decimals in the output 20:01:31 trailing 20:01:46 slyrus: I think you should ask on the slime mailing list what's up with slow down. 20:01:49 <_3b> francogrex: you can't represent 0.1 exactly in binary 20:02:03 <_3b> francogrex: use rationals, or chop off the extra when you print 20:02:03 ampleyfly: find the (non-)deterministic choice in the definition of shuffling (rifling might be less misleading), and you're golden. 20:02:32 <_3b>: how do I chopoff (I need decimals to 2 or 3 points) 20:02:53 pkhuong: I think it's whether to "make the next move" in the first or in the second machine.. 20:03:27 ampleyfly: right. 20:03:42 -!- telebyte [n=t@77-58-154-13.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:04:57 <_3b> francogrex: the format string "~,3f" maybe? 20:06:00 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:06:11 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:06:24 pkhuong: but how do I do that? :S 20:06:28 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 20:06:57 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 20:10:29 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A007D.versanet.de] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.91.1"] 20:11:26 _3b this didn't seem to work; I am trying to search for all format directives in the hyperspecs to see what works best and examples 20:11:39 ampleyfly: much like you do for the intersection or union of languages 20:11:46 but can't find the whole list! 20:11:52 <_3b> that is to print an individual entry of the list 20:12:04 <_3b> clhs 22.3.1 20:12:04 benny [n=benny@i577A1269.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:12:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_ca.htm 20:12:55 <_3b> francogrex: see that (actually all of 22.3, not just 22.3.1) 20:13:42 ok thanks 20:14:40 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@129.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 20:19:05 -!- linuxer [n=linuxer@94.96.184.161] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:19:39 ok thanks _3b; this works well, solved it with ur help! 20:20:27 -!- djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:25:43 -!- willb [n=wibenton@144.92.79.150] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:26:06 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:26:56 -!- Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:30:13 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:50 willb [n=wibenton@144.92.79.150] has joined #lisp 20:32:55 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:33:08 -!- telebyte_ [n=t@193.247.250.13] has quit ["Rooms  iPhone IRC Client  http://rooms.derflash.de"] 20:36:12 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:17 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177076196.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:48 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:40:48 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:15 so elephant has its get-instance-by-value, which returns an instance based off of a slot value, but is there a function that returns an instance based off the value of multiple slots? 20:42:22 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 20:42:49 rvirding [n=chatzill@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:45 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 20:46:04 pkhuong: ok, I think I figured a method out now. just clump the start states together, then traverse both machines simultaneously.. how does that sound? 20:46:25 pkhuong: uh, for intersection 20:47:36 that wasn't what I was supposed to do... 20:47:42 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:48:32 -!- francogrex [n=franco@249.226-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:49:43 hi folks, are there any free common lisp applications? 20:49:57 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d83bcd.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:50:07 leo2007: huh? like sbcl? 20:50:51 leo2007: apps written in common lisp that are free, or common lisp compiler/runtimes that are free? (hint there are both) 20:50:55 Just want to have a feel how an app written in cl is like 20:51:04 the former 20:51:06 leo2007: take a look at cliki.net, it has a list of them. 20:51:34 or go to github and search for common lisp, there's lots of projects there too. 20:53:13 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 20:53:29 leo2007: i think you are better served by looking at examples in say, Practical Common Lisp (book), then going off trying to make sense out of what is out there. 20:54:48 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:55:10 minion: tell leo2007 about pcl 20:55:11 leo2007: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:55:38 If I develop a product in common lisp for example a game, how do I deploy it so that it is ready to use for end users. Like the pre-compiled binary packages. 20:56:01 depends on the implementation. 20:56:08 ?? 20:56:12 usually, you can dump a standalone lisp image that already contains the whole runtime. 20:56:36 so they don't need lisp installed in order to run your application, or even be aware that it's written in lisp. 20:56:36 leo2007: in general, you create an exe just like you would in any other language (at least for end products like that). 20:56:55 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 20:57:16 can I create an exe with c compiler? 20:57:36 why would you compile lisp code with a c compiler? :) 20:57:44 do you compile python with gcc, too? :) 20:57:50 ECL does that, though it's a bit tricky to get it working consistently 20:58:14 sykopomp: how to compile a cl program into exe for example use sbcl? 20:58:23 and the last time i checked the slime support is b0rken 20:58:27 minion: save-lisp-and-die 20:58:28 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``save-lisp-and-die''. 20:58:30 hm 20:58:54 leo2007: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Saving-a-Core-Image.html 20:59:15 droogy [n=user@88.238.199.19] has joined #lisp 20:59:53 sykopomp: knowing it is possible to do is good ;) 21:00:05 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6597d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9f02786bab3b7111] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:00:11 leo2007: CCL and CLISP also allow dumping similar images 21:00:34 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:01:15 also I am having the impression a decent portable gui toolkit is lacking in cl. Is that right? 21:01:24 unfortunately, those impls are missing the "trash the memory" feature of SLAD 21:01:51 afaik, so do ECL. LW and ACL too, of course. regardless, there are a many ways of deployment. learn the language first. thinking of exes and whatnot is pretty much a hindrance for learning cl. 21:02:16 leo2007: tk is portable 21:02:43 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:02:55 but nowadays most users are drawn to good (pretty) user interface. tk isn't up to the job. 21:03:43 Qt works on Linux, MacOS, and Windows and is pretty! 21:03:55 the Qt bindings are done? 21:04:03 mostly, I think 21:04:06 if so, Qt is pretty cute. 21:04:15 *badum-tch!* 21:04:18 lichtblau: are you talking about commonqt? 21:04:24 though the page says it probably leaks memory like a sieve ;-) 21:04:31 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 21:04:32 ;) 21:04:32 leo2007: Hah! "Tk isn't up to the job." Tell that to ANSYS. 21:05:06 tmh: I did use tk a few times and they look primitive 21:05:19 but wiht other languages 21:05:45 tmh: yeah. They would probably also scoof at anyone saying that static linking is primitive ;-) 21:05:51 minion: ansys? 21:05:52 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``ansys''. 21:06:12 leo2007: big honking engineering calculation&simulation system 21:06:19 leo2007: i think it is probably safe to say that there isnt any rock-solid crossplatform gui for the free lisps as of now. however, you can interface to existing libraries in C or whatever with the FFI. the commercial alternatives have gui support tho. 21:06:23 leo2007: non-lispy 21:06:36 p_l: www.ansys.com? 21:06:37 leo2007: I agree that Tk is not "pretty", but it has such a low threshold for entry that it has it's uses. ANSYS is a commercial FEM package, not related to lisp, that has the entire GUI/pre-processor written in TK. 21:06:44 -!- Pan3D [n=Pan3D@63.208.160.186] has quit ["leaving"] 21:06:51 leo2007: yeah 21:07:08 leo2007: if you want a really pretty graphical toolkit, you could always just grab lispbuilder-sdl and make yourself a custom one. 21:07:13 that would be pretty portable :) 21:07:44 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:07:44 sykopomp: I had actually seen GUIs done like that 21:07:55 except replace SDL with OpenGL 21:08:08 p_l: it's been done here and there. SDL is good for simplicity, OGL for making things really pretty. 21:08:17 the graphics side of SDL, that is. 21:08:19 p_l: in lisp?! 21:08:31 hypno: nope, it was probably written in C++ 21:08:48 sykopomp: i agree, this will cost a little extra time but gives you the freedom in your gui design 21:08:48 there's projects that do custom portable guis on top of sdl in a variety of languages. 21:08:56 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 21:09:15 Later, #lisp is getting too distracting, I need to get a lot done in the next hour. 21:09:18 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 21:09:27 the gui I had seen was done 1) for Blender and another case 2) for a flight simulator and its tools 21:09:41 yeah, there are tons of gl-guis out there. 21:10:06 i think the piccolo2d-framework would be immensly cool with a lisp within. i've been messing with kawa and that. 21:10:44 *mcspiff* gets to work with a custom "portable gui" done roughly with motif in his day job...kids today with opengl, sdl :P 21:11:00 how do you use opengl, through cl-opengl? 21:11:37 *stassats* looks suspicious at UIs on opengl 21:11:46 yes. 21:11:50 cl-opengl is pretty great. 21:11:54 from what I've seen 21:11:55 >_> 21:12:20 stassats: why? 21:13:00 stepnem: why? imagine an emacs with zoomable buffers, a high rendering graphics substrace for videos, graphs, picture, whatnot, terminals for the unixmess and so forth? 21:13:13 seems to me like overkill most of the times 21:13:31 sykopomp: I don't have c compiler in my system yet. Can I install it? 21:14:10 I... don't know? Maybe, maybe not? :| 21:14:13 stassats: heh, you are a unix victim! ;) 21:14:44 stassats: also, accelerated by the graphics card, so the GUI is more responsive. 21:14:55 i don't like unix, but it has some good ideas, yeah 21:14:57 not all applications need all those features, but sometimes it's nice and useful. 21:15:09 the smalltalks seems to have done a lot of cool work in this area. really nice multimedia "worlds" with all sorts of features. 21:15:28 I'd say it would be good to use acceleration in the basic graphic system, not in the toolkits themselves 21:15:34 sykopomp: who will accelerate my eyes? 21:15:49 stassats: eye implants, clearly. 21:16:19 lispm [n=joswig@e177157133.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:16:32 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-48-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:16:53 well, i really would like some sort of direct brain interface 21:17:45 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:18:52 you would, until you had a few 4chan members mess with your brainstem 21:19:21 they're no that bad once you learn to filter them out. 21:19:25 not* 21:20:12 "they're not bad if you are one of them" 21:20:34 you could label half the internet as a subset of 4chan in this day and age :< 21:21:23 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 21:21:37 stassats: you're one of the lisp-os guys? 21:21:48 anyway. in more lisp-related news, the new public face of boinkmarks is taking shape: http://sbcl.boinkor.net/boinkmarks/index 21:22:00 i dream about lisp-os every night, if that counts 21:22:20 stassats: not willing to develop? 21:22:33 (now with canvas element graph drawing. if anyone has an internet explorer to test this on, I'd love to hear a) if it exploded and if it didn't, b) how long it took to render) 21:22:45 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:22:46 madnificent: at some point, perhaps 21:22:55 *madnificent* is not a lisp-os dev btw (just interested and willing to help out) 21:23:40 antifuchs: impressive 21:23:42 antifuchs: neat 21:23:45 madnificent: thanks (: 21:24:18 once I get more results (for non-releases, especially), it'll get even nicer (: 21:24:26 right now I'm glad it seems to work for you at all (: 21:25:29 stassats: http://www.stripedgazelle.org/joey/dreamos.html 21:25:31 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:25:37 azanar [n=edcarrel@edm1a.mavericklabel.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:38 antifuchs, that looks very nice .. what did you use to render? .. (maybe i should read the backlog here) 21:26:21 lispm: i saw your submission at reddit, but it doesn't seem to work for me in qemu 21:26:25 antifuchs: it would be nice if it would buffer the versions you'd like to see. In the sense that I tried to enable the :sb-thread and disable the CMUCL, but it didn't react immediately (needed to fetch the data first). Besides that A smaller preview could be nice (that could be clicked to expand into the full graph). In any case, it looks good enough to be put on the site :D (iff it works for other people too and iff there's a way to 21:26:25 do without javascript) 21:26:35 antifuchs: does it work on IE? 21:26:46 lichtblau: trolling, are we? ;) 21:27:00 antifuchs: what I'm actually asking is: do you have any experience with excanvas? 21:27:40 -!- tombom [n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 21:28:02 madnificent: no, sorry. Just hadn't read the scrollback yet. 21:28:17 antifuchs: pretty graphs. 21:28:41 (eagerly awaiting results from... someone else then) 21:29:16 lichtblau: ah my trolling, was a joke... what can ever work in IE? (though it seems to have failed horribly) :( 21:30:09 -!- dto3 is now known as dto 21:30:16 hello dto 21:30:26 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 21:30:47 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:31:12 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:39 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-142-166.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:31:44 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-175.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 21:31:52 antifuchs: what exactly is that web page? 21:32:40 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-132-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:32:46 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:32:47 hmm, somehow this ECL description is weird 21:32:59 ECL (Embeddable Common-Lisp) ist ein Interpreter der Sprache Common-Lisp, wie sie in der ANSI-Spezifikation X3J13 beschrieben ist. Sie enthält CLOS (Common-Lisp Object System), Bedingungen, Schleifen usw. sowie einen Übersetzer in C, der eigenständige ausführbare Programme erzeugen kann. 21:33:15 if im in the sbcl debugger, because an assert failed, is there anyway to access a 'let' binding around that assert? if that makes any sense 21:33:17 Common Lisp has conditionals and loops 21:33:36 lichtblau: I have no experience with excanvas at all 21:33:37 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-175.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:34:10 lichtblau: I included it, cargo-culting from flot's documentation, and it's claimed it works for some in there, but haven't ever tested or tried it 21:34:26 lnostdal: it's the html5 element; nice vector graphics in your browser 21:34:55 mcspiff, (let ((x 1)) (assert (evenp x) (x))) .. try the CONTINUE restart .. then answer 'y' and type in a new number 21:35:31 lispm: must be a mistranslation of "includes CLOS, the condition system, LOOP macro", which might have been worth stating compared to gcl 21:35:53 I'm using the "flot" jquery plugin, which exposes a pretty nice graph plotting interface to the canvas element 21:36:29 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-941.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:36:36 antifuchs: for these "boinkmarks", what bechmark suite do you use? 21:36:47 it's a customized cl-bench installation 21:36:57 lichtblau: 'interpreter' already looks suspicious 21:37:06 antifuchs: cl-bench.. alright. thanks. 21:37:47 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:37:49 customized to fix some benchmarks (trtak, array benchmarks), and to adjust the run times upwards for faster machines (the defaults run so quickly that the measurement error makes for a lot of fluctuations) 21:38:51 antifuchs: no explode no weird shape, it seems great and it is very fast, ibarely saw the this may take a while thing for half a second. the popup notes are also very nice, and i must say that the browser i'm using is chrome, which is so problematic in several ways, great work 21:39:22 droogy: wow, neat! (: 21:39:52 :) 21:41:01 djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:43:23 drewc: object-from-db can not be found in my rofl (wich is built through clbuild). I know this is vague, but do you have any ideas? 21:44:57 /window 13 21:45:32 antifuchs: the only thing that you may want to know is the rollover circles around the points do not seem to be centered in chrome. but it's not disturbing i think 21:46:11 droogy: yeah, I noticed that too, and I think it may be some css weirdness I introduced sometime in development. I'll try and find out what causes this 21:47:49 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [] 21:48:09 maniacxs [n=me@p5B21AAB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:49:53 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:50:28 antifuchs: anyway, i know how hard dealing with even some minor problems in css can be, so good luck :) but again, this is very cool ;) 21:50:43 thanks, I'll need it (-: 21:51:48 -!- sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDA8E90.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:52:49 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:57:49 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:58:22 -!- white-rabbit-obj [n=cpc5@cpe-67-241-171-153.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:59:07 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:59:16 _CitizenKane_ [n=quassel@edit57.daily.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 21:59:36 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 21:59:46 -!- antgreen1 [n=green@nat/redhat/x-66c03fb0d28dd0fd] has left #lisp 21:59:49 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:00:45 is there a function that returns true if any member of a list is not nil? 22:01:16 seems like it could be done with a fold in haskell...is there anything like that for lisp? 22:01:21 (notany #'null list) 22:01:35 -!- HG` [n=wells@91.111.13.16] has quit [Client Quit] 22:01:41 also, (some #'identity list) (: 22:02:02 exactly what i wanted :) 22:02:12 oh, any, not every 22:03:08 some will return generalized true 22:03:19 gotcha, very handy 22:03:25 (notevery #'null list) will return T 22:03:29 -!- willb [n=wibenton@144.92.79.150] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:04:58 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 22:06:11 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:12 is there a way to make sbcl to result in zero for division by zero situation :D 22:07:01 (or (zerop your-divisor) (/ foo your-divisor)) (-: 22:07:03 do not divide by zero 22:07:21 ah, that returns T, so you should wrap it in an IF 22:07:27 also, yeah, don't divide by zero 22:07:50 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:07:58 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.239.248] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:08:09 or if you must, (handler-case (/ precarious-dividend precarious-divisor) (division-by-zero () 0)) (-: 22:09:12 yes, i was just kidding :) but i think corman's sense of humor is far better than us because it results 0 for (/ 0 0), no kidding this time :) 22:09:17 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:05 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 22:11:06 well, it is permissible by clhs 22:11:15 a-s` [n=user@92.80.90.15] has joined #lisp 22:11:45 hmm, so it's an implementation specific situation? 22:17:00 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:00 22:17:00 -!- names: ccl-logbot antgree1 davazp joshe` fe[nl]ix existentialmonk schoppenhauer durka42 kami- a-s` tcr nvoorhies lyte _CitizenKane_ puchacz maniacxs djarvelis the-ruediger dto azanar lispm HET2 droogy b4|hraban ehu` rvirding mcspiff Hun benny manby-ace c|mell mejja leo2007 doxtor ASau Adamant Cowmoo sepult dv_ Odin- chris2 The-Kenny dysinger Modius_ Foofie Phoodus mokogobo mrsolo trebor_dki spacebat rstandy bobbysmith0072 grkz Nshag kpreid yango 22:17:00 -!- names: rread_ jeremiah amnesiac ikki srcerer dialtone jewel milanj pitui plutonas athos ignotus frank_s__ gemelen legumbre` blackwolf stassats rolly1975 Fufie dreish delYsid younder alec ia boyscared dkcl sellout l_a_m tritchey daniel_ vy kidd1 sbahra koning_r1bot Tristam deech ianmcorvidae kidd fiveop beach dstatyvka t Yuuhi hkBst KingNato mtd mrSpec borism Soulman ecraven jfactor xan-afk mikezor Noll_Noll Krystof BrianRice-mb CrazyEddy ffx` Tordek 22:17:00 -!- names: basic` apo_ cipher housel herbieB bob_f peddie jrockway guenthr deepfire wlr tcoppi maxote Wombat1 nullwork clog xinming kejsaren lnostdal billstclair Buganini Adrinael kleppari sphex BrianRice bobf myrkraverk araujo moocow S11001001 elias` phadthai mogunus Ginei_Morioka rlpowell Cel konr antifuchs dfox abeaumont madnificent cmm tsuru erk pok bdowning Patzy jmbr pjb easch dmiles_afk mgr galdor bkudria hefner slyrus m4thias` froog_ dostoyevsky 22:17:00 -!- names: Quadrescence glogic addled sad0ur free_thinker JuanDaugherty tarbo Bucciarati sykopomp Dave2 lisppaste ``Erik fnordus lichtblau pkhuong metasyntax hypno Khisanth chii REPLeffect_ hyperboreean eno michaelw joast bascule wgl jkantz djinni` jlf moesenle TDT spiaggia kuwabara cods joga thijso felixc authentic rtoym kuhzoo Guest1661 cavelife stepnem johs Riastradh krappie xristos _3b lemoinem prip qebab Dazhbog tttsssttt nasloc__ yahooooo tic_ 22:17:00 -!- names: ampleyfly blast_hardcheese robewald_ luis enn andy_chicago froydnj drewc vcgomes jyujin_ frontier1 rodge p8m nicktastic mornfall scode sjbach specbot nooper rumbleca DrForr alexbobp nullman egn fgtech p_l jsnell Aisling Fade kreuter rlonstein vsync gandhijee proq bohanlon ineiros z0d felipe rotty AntiSpamMeta Qsource retupmoca cYmen bfein djkthx minion foom ChopperDave Zhivago tltstc pragma_ azuk @Xof dcrawford meingbg Martinp23 _dima 22:17:03 eirik [i=eirikald@tvilling.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 22:18:28 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-175.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Client Quit] 22:18:50 -!- xan-afk [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:18:57 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:19:49 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 matimago- [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 awayekos [n=anekos@pl476.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-69-209-223-131.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 kooll [n=samson_t@sd-9780.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 22:19:49 zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 22:20:12 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:20:13 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-175.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 22:20:48 -!- joshe` is now known as joshe 22:21:47 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:22:16 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:23:47 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-183-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:25:39 I recall seeing an argument that x/0 would be Infinity, except that Infinity*0 => 0 instead of x ;-) 22:26:21 hmm 22:26:29 what should (sqrt -0.0) be? 22:26:34 is that defined? 22:27:17 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-169-122.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 22:27:43 in IEEE standard? 22:27:53 yep 22:28:30 p_l: works in IEEE 754. Inf * 0 = NaN. 22:29:11 heh. I love NaN results... especially when apps forget about such possibility :) 22:32:29 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177076196.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:35:07 found it. ieea says that (sqrt -0.0) => -0.0 22:36:23 this shouldn't give division error anyway right? (/ x (or (abs x) 1)) 22:37:07 droogy: perhaps by rounding errors? 22:37:31 abs never returns NIL 22:37:37 droogy: as floats may behave incorrectly, the result may become too large 22:37:59 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:38:03 droogy: but perhaps lisp tackles that somehow 22:38:07 no the function works just by integers 22:38:15 ah 22:38:41 droogy: do you understand what is wrong with it considering my commentary? 22:39:20 stassats: oh i didn't see it 22:40:05 stassats: so what's (abs 0), i'm sorry i'm really a newbie 22:40:21 0 22:40:26 what did you expect? 22:41:47 stassats: oh, i thought or would behave 0 as nil, anyway, thanks 22:42:08 we are not in a C-land here 22:42:18 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-129-241.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:43:21 :) 22:43:41 thank you. 22:45:19 and no nonsense like 5/2 == 2 and not being able to extract square roots of negative numbers 22:46:06 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:47:01 -!- djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:53:46 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["Bye!"] 22:57:40 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 22:57:49 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 22:58:06 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E2C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:21 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:53 -!- legumbre` is now known as legumbre 23:00:25 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:03:43 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08:08 droogy pasted "doesn't work when i use create-path in draw-in-canvas" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78927 23:08:24 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:56 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:03 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:06 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 23:10:45 that create-path function creates a list like (34 65 34 12). draw-in-canvas draws a line and takes a list like (34 65 23 65) as its argument, but i can't use (create-path) instead of the (list) 23:11:50 <_3b> you mean the call to list in (create-line c (list ...))? 23:11:55 when i manually copy the output of create-path by adding "list" at the beginning, it works 23:12:03 yes 23:12:42 i want to use (create-line c (create-path *starting-point*)) instead of it 23:12:56 but gives wrong number of arguments error 23:13:18 <_3b> annotate that paste with what you tried that doesn't work 23:14:04 <_3b> are you forgetting to specify the package? (like cl-user::create-path) 23:14:07 create-path returns two-element list, doesn't it? 23:14:57 <_3b> stassats: only if next-move is the target (i think) 23:15:22 <_3b> logic in next-move is a bit confusing, so not sure when that is 23:16:02 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 23:16:46 the whole code is, to be honest 23:17:24 stassats: no it returns a list like (51 50 51 51 52 50 53 51 54 52 55 51 56 51 57 52 57 52 57 53 56 53 57 54 58 55 23:17:24 59 55 58 54 58 55 59 54 60 53 60 54 60 55 61 56 60 57 59 56 60 55 60 54 59 55 23:17:24 59 54 60 55 59 55 59 56 60 56 61 57 60 57 59 56 60 57 60 57 60 58 59 57 59 57 23:17:24 59 58 58 59 59 60 60 61 60 62 59 63 60 62 60 61 60 61 60 61 60 61 59 62 58 62 23:17:27 59 61 58 60 58 60 59 61 59 60 58 60 59 59 59 60 60 59 59 59 59 58 60 57 60 58 23:17:32 60 59 60 60) 23:17:33 hmm sorry :) 23:18:05 <_3b> clhs signum 23:18:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_signum.htm 23:18:14 i don't think that's what create-line want 23:18:16 i know that the whole code is a shame by the way :) i'm sorry for that. 23:18:22 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-20d3dc61af3b6664] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:18:35 <_3b> did you want signum instead of those (/ ...) in delta-target? 23:18:36 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-80cfdfdfa7e5e0a6] has joined #lisp 23:19:06 *_3b* still thinks it is package problems 23:19:17 droogy: well, that's a start, you can't write good code for the first time 23:19:28 *_3b* didn't get a response to that question or sample code, so dunno though 23:19:40 yes 23:20:09 _3b: that's exactly what i needed, but i don't even know the primitives :) 23:21:47 <_3b> droogy: signum you mean? 23:21:54 i just don't understand that the output of (list 34 45 65 76) is (34 45 65 76) and so is create-path's 23:22:06 _3b: yes signum :) 23:23:02 <_3b> droogy: so it still doesn't work, right? if so, paste the code that doesn't work (or fix the package if you didn't do that in the first place) 23:23:02 _3b: but that works even this way except that i have to first run (create-path ()) 23:24:55 droogy annotated #78927 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78927#1 23:25:13 no the only thing that doesn't work is create-path inside the draw-in-canvas 23:25:34 <_3b> in which package did you define create-path? 23:26:01 i can run (create-path *starting-point*) normally 23:26:07 _3b: cl-user 23:26:20 <_3b> and which package are you in when you define draw-in-canvas? 23:26:26 ltk 23:26:27 replace (in-package :ltk) with (use-package :ltk) 23:26:41 <_3b> stassats: he'd probably get symbol conflicts that way 23:26:44 and remove other in-packages, 23:27:26 did that, doesn't work :\ 23:27:39 <_3b> droogy: ltk package probably doens't include symbols from cl-user, so when you define draw-in-canvas, it uses ltk:create-path, not cl-user::create-path 23:28:03 <_3b> droogy: so specify cl-user::create-path, since that is the one you want to use 23:28:10 i'd be surprised if it included them 23:30:39 yes, and i changed the *starting-point* to cl-user::*starting-point* because it gave an error for that this time :) now it works :) 23:30:47 thanks :) 23:31:21 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 23:32:02 *_3b* would probably just skip the use or in-package, and use ltk: prefixes 23:32:14 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 23:33:41 _3b: yes i deleted that in-packages and prefixes and add use-package to beginning, it works, thanks :) 23:35:55 rstandy pasted "serve a dinamically generated file with hunchentoot" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78928 23:36:01 hi 23:36:27 could someone with some experience with hunchentoot take a look at my pasted code? 23:36:30 it didn't work first time because i directly replaced use-package with in-package instead of deleting in-packages and add it to beginning, and it's a shame again :) 23:36:46 thank you all :) 23:37:14 My problem is that I get an empty file from hunchentoot :-( 23:38:51 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:39:52 <_3b> rstandy: ht docs say that is a binary stream, does write-byte work any better than write? 23:41:37 _3b: it seems that write-byte does the work 23:41:40 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:42:01 _3b: I think I should learn the basics of CL streams first :-) 23:42:15 _3b: many thanks for your suggestion 23:42:23 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.52.45] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:42:30 -!- bobbysmith0072 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:43:59 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483C502.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:47:15 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-142-166.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:47:39 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:49:42 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:26 apo [n=apo@pD9E7F07A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:40 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177157133.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 23:53:06 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-188-098-194-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:58:56 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]