00:00:36 wouldn't work 00:00:51 unless you restrict yourself 00:01:08 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 00:01:59 <_Pb> what about 'don't use lists'? 00:02:13 Lists are too useful to give up. 00:02:19 what about it? 00:02:49 use lists where you need lists, it's simple 00:02:53 <_Pb> I'm new to lisp methodologies and I'd like to know what it is 00:02:55 CONS lists are rarely what you need. They're usually just convenient and good enough. 00:03:00 <_Pb> ah 00:03:58 extensible lists 00:03:59 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:04:02 make CAR and CDR generic functions 00:04:05 :P 00:04:41 <_Pb> I wish I understood that 00:04:54 _Pb: in time, don't worry about it 00:05:55 add a slot for length, signal an error from the (setf cdr) method, and you're set 00:06:03 S11001001: that would be extensible conses 00:06:11 _Pb: it basically means: CAR and CDR are functions outside of the Common Lisp Object System (CLOS for short) now, but if we'd do it in CLOS, we'd be able to specialise the CDR and CAR functions no they'd work on different objects that 'act' like lists 00:06:23 <_Pb> that's interesting 00:06:44 That's mostly useless, actually. 00:07:31 pkhuong: 'that' being what exactly? 00:07:34 you can't tell whether particular cons cells is a part of a list and where is beginning of that list 00:08:49 _Pb: it's a much worse solution than simply avoiding testing the length altogether. Furthermore it would be a case of too many hooks 00:09:13 Besides, what about lists with shared structure? 00:09:53 <_Pb> that makes sense 00:10:01 Things that aren't quite -lists- that are built up from conses, such as abstract syntax trees (aka "source code")? 00:10:20 And so it goes. 00:10:44 Would probably be better of with a more structured representation, e.g. with structures. 00:11:22 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:05 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@87.223.191.44] has joined #lisp 00:13:53 b 00:14:44 Really, nothing can beat lists as a parsed source-code representation. 00:15:40 funny. First thing I do in my compilers is parse lists into structures. AFAICT, the only reason lists are convenient for macros is because of all the support utility for conses, nothing inherent to lists. 00:15:44 can someone recommend a good gui tookkit to work with sbcl? 00:15:44 if i have array array, what is the equivilent of array[9] 00:16:05 jimi_hendrix: Have a look at AREF. 00:16:09 jimi_hendrix: read a book. 00:16:23 nyef, ok 00:16:29 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@12.187.234.40] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:16:49 pkhuong, i am reading the gigamonkies book...but he kinda mixes all of these functions around...and its hard to remember where he goes over stuff 00:17:51 pkhuong: They are convenient because they're an easy thing to output from a parser, easy to produce in a transformation via backquote, and easy to transform into any more involved structure within a compiler. 00:19:02 I'm not saying that there aren't better representations within a compiler, but as a format sitting between a parser and a compiler it's on at least a local maxima. 00:20:51 manuel_ [n=manuel@dslb-082-083-125-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:01 so, nothing inherent to (cons) lists. 00:21:15 nyef, is there a version of aref for lists? 00:21:31 ELT. 00:21:34 yeah, Don't Do That. 00:21:41 Mind its time-complexity, though. 00:21:47 meaning 00:22:17 Meaning that it's time-proportional to the index you're using. 00:22:42 (And if you don't like that, don't use lists.) 00:22:46 ok 00:23:07 seems fast enough anyway 00:24:17 how to check whether my current sbcl is compiled for x86 or x86-64? 00:24:24 -!- sepult is now known as sepult_ 00:24:31 wtf? LENGTH of lists is a VOP!? 00:25:01 leo2007: lambda-gtk is useful, and with the C docs for Gtk at hand, self-evident. 00:25:02 and last thing for tonight probably...set version of elt? 00:25:21 It's an accessor, so just use setf. 00:25:35 leo2007: *features*. You'll find :X86 or :X86-64 in there. 00:25:46 ok 00:25:50 or length of fixnum 00:25:58 or (machine-type) 00:26:05 Or sb-vm:n-word-bits or whatever it's called... 00:26:14 leo2007: you can also run `file` on it 00:26:50 Programmatically, though, a feature test is the typical method, as you can do that with #+ and #- to condition out stuff in your source. 00:27:05 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.191.44] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:27:07 how weird! 00:27:36 You'll have to be a bit less vague. 00:27:55 is the new macbook x86 or x86-64? 00:28:27 x86-64. SBCL builds for x86 on darwin by default. 00:28:36 The hardware is unlikely to be anything but x86-64, but the software is anybody's guess... 00:28:37 fusss: it says /usr/local/os/bin/sbcl: Mach-O executable i386 00:28:52 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 00:29:15 pkhuong: is it better to rebuild it for x86-64? 00:29:15 leo2007: the *features* thing aught to answer you better (you're on Mac, no clue here) 00:29:30 fusss: it says x86 but not x86-64 00:29:46 i386 is 32bit 00:29:59 If you're asking, it probably doesn't matter. 00:30:07 pkhuong: :-) 00:30:46 who wouldn't love larger fixnums? 00:30:59 leo2007: for all intents and purposes, recompile for 32bit if you're on a VPS account with limited ram 00:31:31 fusss: OS X on a VPS? 00:31:33 you're not exactly folding protein or doing realtime DSP for missile navigation 00:31:48 pkhuong: nope. freenix. 00:32:08 fusss: leo2007's on OS X. 00:32:27 "for all intents and purposes" ~= "generally" 00:32:31 cpu intel core 2 duo, that is x86-64 right? 00:32:39 yes 00:32:47 fusss: right. But you're just confusing things right now. 00:33:08 fusss: I got 4G ram 00:33:09 pkhuong: riiight, and he is obsessing over minutia :-) 00:33:24 holly cow! 00:34:05 (Holly cow? A shrub that moos?) 00:34:38 leo2007: that's more than my workstations harddisk in 1998 00:34:38 pkhuong: that's why I am asking here so that people like you can advise me. 00:34:48 fusss: ;) 00:35:15 I am setting up a common lisp development environment. 00:35:18 *fusss* goes back to "learning" mozart/oz syntax really quick to be able to read some papers later 00:35:28 leo2007: and the answer is that it doesn't really matter. 00:35:34 4G of ram isn't -that- unusual these days. 00:37:11 For sbcl, what are the differences between target x86 and x86-64? Why sbcl default to x86 on darwin? 00:37:32 Default to x86 because of the few x86-only darwin systems out there? 00:38:02 because everything else on your OS X machine is probably x86 too? 00:38:55 and uname -a says it's an i386. 00:39:34 yeah 00:40:22 (length *feature*) => 36 00:41:32 Grr... I -hate- fake antivirus. 00:41:41 -!- jmbr_ is now known as jmbr 00:42:02 Clearly, I'm going to have to install a bloody ad filter. :-/ 00:43:53 ... AcroRd32.exe? That's a bit bold, too. 00:44:15 got the cooties? 00:44:24 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:45:03 -!- GrayMagiker [n=steve@c-68-35-128-231.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:45:20 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:46:10 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has joined #lisp 00:46:23 Only processes running now appear to be known ones, but I still have mess to clean up, and can't do it immediately. 00:46:47 -!- emacs-dwim [n=user@cpe-74-71-13-156.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:51:38 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 00:53:39 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:54:11 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 00:54:50 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:55:42 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:58:46 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-82-197.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 01:00:50 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:03:45 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:51 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 01:05:21 fridim_ [n=fridim@gar13-5-88-161-23-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:01 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-129-11.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 01:19:31 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Dead socket] 01:19:51 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:44 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has joined #lisp 01:25:59 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:29:21 Of course, that just meant that there was a dll injection against explorer. What a nuisance. 01:30:37 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:32:41 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-82.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:33:20 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:39 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-82.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 01:35:14 can one have nested conds 01:35:21 singhv [n=vsingh@CPE0014bf4af6c2-CM000a739caee2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:32 jimi_hendrix: why not? 01:37:06 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@dslb-082-083-125-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:39:39 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 01:39:45 -!- sepult_ [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-242.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:40:59 sepult_ [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:42:07 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-226-98.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 01:43:03 -!- sepult_ [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:43:16 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:43:32 jimi_hendrix pasted "print-hand" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78430 01:43:35 can someone mind pointing out my noob error somewhere...i realize i am doing this function the noob way but it is late and i was able to hack this quickly...but i am getting an error i can not find and am now curious about what is wrong before i rewrite it... 01:43:51 yes i have been trying and googling and staring at code 01:44:26 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:45:56 the ((cond is the error 01:45:56 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:48:12 ok hefner got that...but then it goes on with the same error but for (= (cdr elem) 1) 01:48:57 legumbre` [n=user@r190-135-38-115.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:49:53 then your parens are out of whack 01:50:57 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:51:02 Does anyone know what the error message "cannot use values types here" means from the SBCL compiler? The offending code looks innocuous to me, I am wondering what I have missed. 01:51:41 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:41 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:51:51 LiamH: paste the code. 01:52:05 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has joined #lisp 01:52:22 i use sbcl on slime on win 01:52:30 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 01:52:34 Putting my telepathy hat on, (* void) instead on (* t) can trigger that error. 01:52:34 when i drop to debugger 01:53:04 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:53:07 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-94.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 01:53:13 my connection with swank fails whatever option i choose 01:53:24 pkhuong: Maybe, paste is coming 01:53:33 LiamH: Or just declaring void as a function parameter type. If a function's parameter list is void, omit it. 01:53:46 ok last question for the night, whats the format thing for newline? \n? or is there a fancy ~ thing 01:53:55 any idea about ehy my debugger fails? :\ 01:54:07 nyef: no, the void is in the return value 01:54:09 fax-machine: Sure, known problem. 01:54:16 fax-machine: Two secs. 01:54:21 jimi_hendrix: ~% 01:54:23 ok :) 01:55:03 ok 01:55:04 fax-machine: http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/article-drafts/sbcl-win32-slime-and-cygwin-emacs.txt is a good start, but the slime-from-lisp-filename-function is broken. 01:55:51 Could this be from doing (cffi:mem-aref foo :void)? 01:56:02 fax-machine: If you're not using cygwin emacs the pathname translation stuff doesn't apply to you anyway. If you are using cygwin emacs I have a slightly more working version somewhere. 01:56:12 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-82.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:56:43 LiamH: That's a wierd-looking construct. What's it supposed to do? 01:57:02 no i use emacs 23 for win 01:57:07 nyef: It's supposed to have come from a better-written macro. 01:57:14 not the emacsW32 one 01:57:30 fax-machine: Okay, so you possibly just need the ~/.swank.lisp bit. 01:58:15 LiamH: neither nyef nor I use CFFI, sorry. 01:59:24 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:00:35 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:00:58 pkhuong: NP, I see in the CFFI source code that there is no entry for :void in define-mem-accessors, so it is a bad type to pass to mem-aref. 02:02:03 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:02:05 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-144-82.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:13 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:02:46 *nyef* hopes fax-machine got or gets his slime working right. 02:02:59 -!- singhv [n=vsingh@CPE0014bf4af6c2-CM000a739caee2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 02:02:59 -!- fridim_ [n=fridim@gar13-5-88-161-23-155.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:04:42 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:04:46 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:05:16 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:42 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-82-197.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:06:16 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:06:50 Well, I know what I'm doing tomorrow. I'm going to have to try and clean the crap off of my only IE6 machine. And it has to be done tomorrow because I need to access an IE6-only site to enter my time and expenses for work. 02:06:54 tritchey [n=tritchey@12.187.234.40] has joined #lisp 02:07:44 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has joined #lisp 02:08:09 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-45-25.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:18 nyef: it worked :) thanks so much for the quick response 02:08:29 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 02:08:48 fax-machine: No problem. Took me a while to figure it out, and I happened to have intimate knowledge at least of the SBCL side of things. 02:09:13 I should probably revise that draft article, though. 02:09:26 Was it just the ~/.swank.lisp stuff that was needed? 02:09:39 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:09:59 Oh, and are you planning on doing anything in the way of COM or UI work with this setup? 02:10:29 -!- devsforev [n=ryan@ool-43520654.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:11:51 no it was the .swank + new-serve-event.lisp files 02:12:58 _bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:04 but it completely solved my problem so thanks again :) 02:13:33 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:14:07 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:14:51 how can I terminate a program that's running from within slime? 02:15:27 fax-machine: Thanks, then. I'll add that information for when I revise the article. 02:15:42 ie, if I've entered an inifnite loop 02:16:15 fax-machine: If you're doing anything with COM or UI programming, I have the beginnings of something that might be usable. Unfortunately, it's not yet complete enough even for me to use. 02:16:23 __death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 02:16:44 cods_ [n=cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:46 tmitt: C-c C-c 02:17:04 thank you 02:17:07 emma_ [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:17:10 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 02:17:14 robewald_ [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:22 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:18:27 rlonstei1 [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:12 i tried to get w3m work inside emacs for the last to days, not for browsing, just as my hyperspec pager so it worked after all (worked for offline browsing only, i dont know why), then realizing this problem in slime debugger behavior were gettin me to a pathetic mood :) now it looks superb 02:19:23 fax-machine: One advantage to what I have planned for UI work is that, with new-serve-event.lisp, I can tie a windows message handler into serve-event and have SLIME still functional at the same time that any windows are. 02:20:54 -!- bdowning_ [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:20:54 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:20:54 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:20:54 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:20:54 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:20:54 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:20:54 -!- froydnj [n=froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:20:54 -!- gandhijee [i=akp@host-66-202-34-165.spr.choiceone.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:20:54 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit 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[n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 02:43:11 how can i open autoindentation in slime? 02:43:12 -!- tmitt [n=seg@216.96.134.230] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:43:31 -!- stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 02:44:20 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:44:34 stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:41 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:45:00 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:00 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:45:24 when i open a .lisp format file it does auto highlight to the code i write but it doesnt indent it without a command like slime-indent-and-complete-symbol 02:47:33 by highlight i mean it gives different colors to symbols and functions etc i don't know the tecnichal term for it 02:47:47 fax-machine: that's called font locking in emacs-speak 02:47:51 you're probably hitting Return, when you really want to be hitting ctrl-j 02:48:15 ctrl-j does a newline and an indent automatically. you could map Return to that if you like. 02:48:26 you can indent the current line with tab as well 02:49:01 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:49:01 rlpowell_ [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 02:49:02 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-124-177.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:21 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBB38C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:49:37 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:49:52 -!- H4ns2 [n=Hans@p57BBB38C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:49:57 -!- rlpowell [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:50:06 envi_home2 [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 02:50:21 hmm, yes tab and C - j both works, thanks 02:50:48 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@68.239.77.4] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:51:01 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:21 but how can i arrange it to work by return without any conflict with the normal functions of return 02:52:00 joshe` [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 02:52:57 Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 02:54:13 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-67e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host189.190-137-176.telecom.net.ar] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3243-ipbf807aobadori.miyagi.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- maxote [n=el_ermit@84.79.67.254] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.175] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- nullman` [n=nullman@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:13 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:54:14 i mean does it try to indent even in erc if i map ret instead of C - j :) 02:54:25 -!- envi_home2 is now known as envi^home 02:54:37 nullman [n=nullman@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:38 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:56:11 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:13 in that case, you'll want to attach it to slime-mode-hook via local-set-key, so that mapping will only be active in that mode. 02:56:57 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 c|mell [n=cmell@p3243-ipbf807aobadori.miyagi.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 Tordek [n=tordek@host189.190-137-176.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.175] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 mikezor [n=mikael@c-67e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 maxote [n=el_ermit@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 nullman` [n=nullman@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:57 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:58 -!- nullman` [n=nullman@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 02:57:09 -!- maxote [n=el_ermit@84.79.67.254] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 02:57:10 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 02:57:18 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.175] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:57:30 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.175] has joined #lisp 02:58:11 maxote [n=el_ermit@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 02:58:13 it'd be something like: (add-hook 'slime-mode-hook (lambda () (local-set-key "\n" 'newline-and-indent) .. i think. 02:58:51 i'll try it, thanks 02:59:40 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["l4d"] 02:59:46 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 03:00:19 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-67e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 03:00:21 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:03:45 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has joined #lisp 03:04:24 -!- robewald_ [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:04:24 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-183-103-90.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:05:05 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:05:34 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has joined #lisp 03:07:12 yes, it worked, thanks. i just had to change "\n" to [(return)] and now its working well :) 03:09:54 no problem! 03:10:41 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.194.87] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:15:25 -!- joshe` is now known as joshe 03:16:28 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-67e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:27:33 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@12.187.234.40] has quit [] 03:32:35 division-bell [n=user@88.238.194.87] has joined #lisp 03:33:03 how can i kill *GNU Emacs* buffer or *Messages* buffer on startup? 03:33:26 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3243-ipbf807aobadori.miyagi.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:36:31 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:36:33 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:37:35 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 03:38:40 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 03:43:09 ehu [n=chatzill@ip5657b052.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 03:46:43 say you're a telnet client, you create a connection using an address and a port. Once a connection is created, you send lines to the server, and print lines from the server to the screen. The issue I'm running into is synchronizing these operations. IE, when I read-line, it waits for a line, and thus nothing gets printed from the server until I've entered something. 03:47:04 what's a good solution for this in common lisp? 03:47:16 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:48:29 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:13 to use select() 03:50:17 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 03:50:29 meaning you need something like iolib 03:50:37 minion: iolib? 03:50:37 iolib: I/O(mainly networking) library containing: a BSD sockets library, a DNS resolver and an I/O multiplexer that supports select(2), epoll(4) and kqueue(2). http://www.cliki.net/iolib 03:51:09 tmitt_: ^^^^ 03:51:20 thank you ehu 03:51:30 welcome 03:51:47 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:52:26 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:53 -!- nadan [n=ndan@unaffiliated/nadan] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:55:12 nadan [n=ndan@unaffiliated/nadan] has joined #lisp 03:56:23 tweek__ [n=tweek@host-5-159-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:45 in order to communicate with other players, this Othello playing program called Edax attempts to open a file handle once every second 03:59:02 once it exists, it reads a single move from it and then deletes it 03:59:39 on the other side, it keeps reopening the file until it no longer exists, once every second 03:59:53 then it knows that it's time to make its own move, and writes to that file 03:59:54 that sounds inefficient 04:00:01 sure, but it's dead simple 04:00:08 how do I implement this in lisp? 04:00:26 exactly the same way? 04:00:28 -!- rlpowell_ is now known as rlpowell 04:00:31 what's your OS? 04:00:43 loonicks 04:00:50 but the guy I'm working with is on windows 04:01:03 won't work on Windows. 04:01:10 you can't delete an open file there. 04:01:14 if you're going to do this stuff, might as well use a pipe, right? 04:01:18 it closes the file first 04:01:39 unless you mean there's a race condition 04:01:44 how do you know the other one is not holding an open handle when you delete it? 04:01:46 in which case it'd be resolved the next time 04:01:59 it also immediately closes the file right after opening it, then waits a second 04:02:09 only if either doesn't wait exactly 1 sec. 04:02:11 maybe I should wait 1.5 seconds just so it doesn't continually happen one after another 04:02:28 :-) 04:02:40 a pipe would be an easy way to handle this. 04:02:47 even on Windows, I believe. 04:02:50 yeah 04:03:01 but that's not the way this idiot decided to do it 04:03:21 or maybe his reasoning is that everyone knows how to open from files, and maybe people get scared off by fdup() or whatever 04:03:49 anyway, can this be done in lisp? I need to open a file, close a file, wait 1.5 sec, and delete a file 04:04:02 Sure, why not? 04:04:21 don't know the syntax for any of that 04:04:35 (with-open-file ...) 04:04:43 and (delete-file ...) 04:04:52 (if (null file-hnd) ...) 04:04:54 google "clhs with-open-file) 04:04:59 oh. 04:05:03 google "clhs with-open-file" 04:05:27 I was forgetting that literacy is a lost art. :) 04:05:41 there's almost no material on lisp on the internet 04:06:03 or it exists, but for like ten different variants of lisp 04:06:05 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:06:24 there's plenty of example code. 04:06:25 tweek: Utter nonsense. 04:06:32 tweek: Look at the hyperspec. 04:06:33 look on common-lisp.net 04:06:39 read the hyperspec 04:06:45 or use cliki.net 04:07:00 the last one has some cookbook examples. 04:07:29 but if you want to learn Lisp, I suggest you use the first 2 04:10:19 There is also the book 'practical common lisp'. 04:13:05 was reading through that initially, but it doesn't have this level of information 04:13:17 this is a great reference site, everything I'd ever want to know about the function 'open' 04:15:29 rread [n=rread@host-12-172-189-250.nctv.com] has joined #lisp 04:15:29 ..but were afraid to ask. 04:16:11 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 04:16:39 hefner: don't you ever sleep? 04:18:27 I've tried it. 04:18:43 insomnia? 04:19:28 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22:38 srart [n=srart@d14-69-182-170.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:31 now we all know that no one want to do somebodies homework, but I'm having a conceptual issue. I'm trying to write the closures for a simple BNF in my compiler class. I figured this is the best place to ask about the logic since it is part and parcel of lisp. 04:24:59 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:34 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:26:37 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:30 The short version is I have E'>E; E>T, E>E+T .... I'm putting in a dot after the arrow, then trying to get the closure of each set, then move the dot, and get the closure of the resulting set. I'm using python and trying to do it with list comprehensions, but I suspect I need to use lambda and map. 04:29:19 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-135-15.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:14 any suggestions on the logic of getting this to work. 04:31:24 I did this on paper once 04:31:34 that was the first and last time 04:33:26 on paper it's a snap (very small set 13 states total) 04:33:34 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:33:47 lichtblau [n=user@pD95405DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:35:14 Instead of just doing a bunch of string munging and forcing it to work (which I can do) I'm trying to get the idea a bit better, I can see that it's a reducing problem, but I don't have a lot of experiance with fuctioonal programming so I can't quite see how to do it, but I KNOW that it is the right way to do it. 04:36:10 recursion has always been a spot my brain just stumbles over. 04:41:02 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.205.96] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:41:27 -!- eno [n=eno@70.137.144.82] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:41:38 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.143.60] has joined #lisp 04:43:39 srart, probably best to try re-writing some loops you have in existing programs to be functional and recursive. The only way to train your mind is to do it. 04:43:54 birdman [n=sykopomp@c-71-232-102-206.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:26 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-187.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:44:34 -!- birdman [n=sykopomp@c-71-232-102-206.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:44:51 -!- sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:44:55 start with some simple things, in an hour or two you'll be able to figure out your problem 04:47:13 -!- division-bell [n=user@88.238.194.87] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:47:15 sykopomp [n=user@c-71-232-102-206.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:03 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 04:49:09 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:51:23 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:51:46 How install sbcl source so that M. can find it? 04:53:48 thanks for the encouragment, I hope I get it. 04:57:23 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@ip5657b052.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:57:30 -!- _8david [n=user@pD95405DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 04:57:34 -!- lichtblau [n=user@pD95405DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:57:57 lichtblau [n=user@pD95405DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:59:25 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 05:01:50 -!- srart [n=srart@d14-69-182-170.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:02:30 srart [n=srart@d14-69-182-170.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:34 -!- Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 05:02:42 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 05:02:44 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 05:05:51 -!- jao [n=jao@126.Red-83-33-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:11:45 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 05:14:37 -!- srart [n=srart@d14-69-182-170.try.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 05:15:53 srart [n=srart@d14-69-182-170.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 05:16:17 snippyhollow [n=snippyho@tkbn103153.catv.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:17:47 -!- snippyhollow [n=snippyho@tkbn103153.catv.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has left #lisp 05:18:49 bradbrowne [n=brad@dsl-202-173-157-246.vic.westnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:21:13 I am using emacs and slime; is there a way to dump functions I have defined at the REPL out to a file ? 05:22:22 bradbrowne: if you want the source code, then no. you can copy and paste from the history. 05:23:41 I thought you might say that. Thank you. 05:25:06 rread_ [n=rread@host-12-172-189-250.nctv.com] has joined #lisp 05:25:06 -!- rread [n=rread@host-12-172-189-250.nctv.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:25:17 -!- singhv [n=vsingh@CPE0014bf4af6c2-CM000a739caee2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 05:26:52 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:52 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:28:14 quotemstr_ [n=quotemst@cpe-67-246-181-235.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:30:10 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:35:07 -!- nooper [i=nooper@2001:41c8:0:866:21c:c0ff:fe7f:7198] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:35:07 -!- hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:35:07 -!- DrForr [n=drforr@eldwist.darkuncle.net] has quit 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"] 05:54:33 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 06:10:16 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:12:39 H4ns2 [n=Hans@p57BBB29A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:18:59 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-135-15.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:04 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 06:19:22 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:21:03 -!- quotemstr_ [n=quotemst@cpe-67-246-181-235.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [] 06:26:57 -!- nadan [n=ndan@unaffiliated/nadan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:27:29 -!- tmitt_ [n=seg@crafty.dsl.utk.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 06:30:17 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBB38C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:35:29 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:56 rread_ [n=rread@host-12-172-189-250.nctv.com] has joined #lisp 06:43:18 -!- rread [n=rread@host-12-172-189-250.nctv.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:47:05 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:01:34 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:03:02 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has left #lisp 07:03:06 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 07:03:33 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.226.65] has joined #lisp 07:05:09 -!- tweek__ [n=tweek@host-5-159-107-208.midco.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:07:28 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:08:32 vng [n=vuong@123.20.3.85] has joined #lisp 07:08:49 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 07:10:18 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 07:20:14 elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:22:46 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:22:51 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 07:26:18 tombom [n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 07:30:20 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-31-6.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:30:27 Good morning. 07:31:51 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-22-57-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:32:27 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 07:34:19 Uh, oh! There must be something wrong with the logs on tunes.org 07:35:30 *_3b* can't resolve tunes.org atm 07:35:44 poor tunes.org. it's neither useful nor expedient today. 07:36:39 I can connect and get the logs, but the are not up to date. 07:36:41 <_3b> hmm, nameserver for tunes.org is a.ns.tunes.org, how does that work? 07:37:41 jao [n=jao@126.Red-83-33-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:48 tunes.org works fine for me. 07:39:28 You must have the IP cached somwhere. Neither nameserver is working ofr me 07:40:36 -!- sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:41:09 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:10 ahh, I'm using opera and they have a caching server, I seem to be getting it from them. Forgot all about it being on (have to be using opera beta with turbo turned on, looks to be yahoo's servers they are using) 07:42:25 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:46:59 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-26.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:47:13 -!- cods_ is now known as cods 07:47:15 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:50:23 Ragnaroek [i=54a641b9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f302f35ffda83f81] has joined #lisp 07:51:39 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a641b9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f302f35ffda83f81] has quit [Client Quit] 07:55:43 ejs [n=eugen@8-153-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:06 manuel [n=manuel@dslb-082-083-125-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:57 Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:08:22 it's OK; nothing much happened overnight 08:11:51 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:13:57 dalton [n=lhugbj@189-19-113-191.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 08:15:11 This page can get you to tunes.org http://66.114.33.57/vhosts.html 08:15:17 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 08:15:32 ?/ 08:15:53 _3b was asking about it about an hour ago. 08:16:01 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 08:20:09 gah, I hate debugging print-object 08:20:25 Krystof, what's problematic with it? *curious* 08:20:34 or rather, what's problematic with debugging it 08:20:38 <_3b> it tries to print the object in the backtrace 08:20:44 <_3b> using print-object 08:20:48 Heh. 08:21:01 <_3b> either that or it just doesn't show up in the backtrace 08:21:11 exactly; almost any printing to help with debugging changes the state you're trying to debug 08:24:21 Hm. major meh 08:26:29 So call it "proto-print-object" while you debug it, then rename 08:28:27 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 08:29:44 don't hurt him.. 08:31:44 -!- ejs [n=eugen@8-153-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:33:14 LostMonarch [n=roby@host60-211-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:35:20 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:10 really? 08:37:17 -!- rread_ [n=rread@host-12-172-189-250.nctv.com] has quit [] 08:37:25 I'm not allowed to hurt people any more? 08:38:22 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:41:24 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6CB10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:32 leo2007: explode the tarball or git clone or checkout what have you, 08:43:37 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B6CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:43:52 then set the logical pathname translations of "SYS" accordingly 08:44:03 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:44:10 you may be able to just modify what's already set as those in the obvious way 08:44:16 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@student165-194.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:47:25 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has joined #lisp 08:49:53 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:55:00 -!- manuel [n=manuel@dslb-082-083-125-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 08:55:14 koaftder [n=koft@adsl-77-239-14.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:52 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0F0D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:01:05 frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:01:31 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:03:22 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 09:03:35 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.191.44] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:03:42 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:04:22 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 09:05:27 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:07:00 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:10:48 -!- koaftder_ [n=koft@adsl-221-31-165.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:11:21 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 09:13:21 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 09:14:10 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:16:44 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:20:27 phercek [n=peter@mail.hck.sk] has joined #lisp 09:21:47 -!- srart [n=srart@d14-69-182-170.try.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 09:22:35 -!- frodef [n=ffj@24.80-203-67.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:22:52 I can specify a documentation stiring for a function when defining it using defun (I use clisp). How can I query this string later? I would like something like (help functionName) which would return the argument list and the documentation string... 09:23:28 <_3b> (documentation '+ 'function) 09:23:47 <_3b> arglist is a bit harder, but slime knows how to do that 09:24:28 _3b: it does not seem to work: 09:24:28 [12]> (documentation '+ 'fact) 09:24:28 NIL 09:24:28 [13]> 09:24:46 fact is the function for which I define the documentation string 09:24:47 <_3b> no, put fact where + was, not function 09:24:54 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:24:57 aha! 09:25:07 <_3b> 'function tells it what type of docstring you want 09:25:23 cool that works, thanks 09:25:28 <_3b> compare with for example (documentation '+ 'variable) 09:26:03 <_3b> clhs documentation 09:26:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_docume.htm 09:26:09 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has joined #lisp 09:26:10 <_3b> see that for full details 09:26:21 (documentation '+ 'variable) gives me NIL; is that correct? 09:26:39 <_3b> implementation specific unfortunately 09:26:49 <_3b> SBCL says "the value of the most recent top level READ" 09:26:57 ok; thanks 09:31:18 <_3b> if you use slime, you can also try C-c C-d d 09:34:37 no this is clisp (not emacs; I'm a vim user :) ) 09:34:44 sb-thread:get-mutex has a doc-string that mentions it being not interrupt safe .. does the same apply to sb-thread:with-mutex or sb-thread:with-recursive-lock? (nothing about interrupt safety is mentioned in their doc-strings) 09:34:51 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:35:23 <_3b> phercek: yeah, slime is for talking to clisp or sbcl or whatever from emacs 09:35:59 <_3b> unfortunately nobody seems to be able to get something comparable working in vim so far 09:36:37 <_3b> you might look at limp though, i think that is the most recent attempt 09:37:09 _3b: actually I'm a haskell user normally; only this time I'm trying to explain something to my nephew (and I'm not good at it obviously :) ) 09:37:58 <_3b> ok, if you aren't using lisp seriously, don't worry about it :) if you were though, you miss out on a lot by not having an editor that can talk to a running lisp 09:38:13 <_3b> (not that you don't miss out on the same things using most other languages :) 09:38:23 :) 09:41:05 srart [n=srart@d14-69-182-170.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 09:46:19 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 09:52:02 -!- Patzy_ is now known as Patzy 09:52:38 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6CB10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 09:53:02 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-124-157.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:57:09 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 09:58:43 ehu [n=chatzill@ip5657b052.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 10:02:18 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 10:08:07 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:13:04 -!- vng [n=vuong@123.20.3.85] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:14:44 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=jimi_hen@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:15:48 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 10:17:28 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 10:17:34 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:17:44 manuel_ [n=manuel@C6770.c.ppp-pool.de] has joined #lisp 10:19:42 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B6CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:25:57 g0ju [n=moo@dslb-088-072-046-012.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:25 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit ["zzz"] 10:27:50 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.9] has joined #lisp 10:31:04 HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:35:49 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:41:03 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 10:41:42 c|mell [n=cmell@p3243-ipbf807aobadori.miyagi.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:42:01 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 10:43:50 -!- g0ju [n=moo@dslb-088-072-046-012.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:44:05 milanj [n=milan@93.87.143.167] has joined #lisp 10:46:15 tabb0t [n=tabb0t@122.172.123.175] has joined #lisp 10:47:04 well, great 10:47:17 -!- tabb0t [n=tabb0t@122.172.123.175] has quit [Client Quit] 10:47:46 I like being right, except when it makes more work for me 10:47:47 xirie [n=user@ti0073a340-dhcp0225.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 10:48:30 tabb0t [n=tabb0t@122.172.123.175] has joined #lisp 10:50:19 -!- tabb0t is now known as tabbot 10:50:36 fridim__ [n=fridim@gar13-5-88-161-23-155.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:58 -!- tabbot [n=tabb0t@122.172.123.175] has quit [Client Quit] 10:51:12 tabbot [n=tabb0t@122.172.123.175] has joined #lisp 10:55:12 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E45DE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:58 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483ACBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:51 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit ["leaving"] 11:09:05 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 11:09:09 -!- xirie [n=user@ti0073a340-dhcp0225.bb.online.no] has left #lisp 11:13:42 koaftder_ [n=koft@adsl-221-72-129.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:52 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:15:51 jimi_hendrix [n=jimi_hen@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #lisp 11:16:03 how do i turn a string holding a number into an int 11:19:22 <_3b> clhs parse-integer 11:19:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_parse_.htm 11:19:54 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.143.167] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:20:21 http://www.catonmat.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/john-mccarthy-programming-wrong.jpg 11:21:51 -!- koaftder [n=koft@adsl-77-239-14.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:23:25 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:35 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:40 -!- tombom [n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 11:27:43 G'morning all. 11:28:11 hi nyef 11:28:43 plutonas [n=plutonas@nomad50136.netlogon.lu.se] has joined #lisp 11:29:05 -!- fridim__ is now known as fridim_ 11:30:06 <_3b> nyef: so that NUL thing isn't for cygwin either? 11:30:10 -!- phercek [n=peter@mail.hck.sk] has left #lisp 11:30:28 *_3b* assumed it worked somewhere, so hadn't bothered to complain about it 11:30:40 _3b: It's something that could (and possibly should) be fixed in SBCL itself, as it's a legitimate device name on windows. 11:30:56 It just can't be found via looking at the directory. 11:32:21 <_3b> true, that would only help with SBCL new enough to have the --no-whatever-init options though 11:33:13 Exactly. 11:34:09 The other option is to keep around an empty file (or one that only contains comments) as a userinit and sysinit... Or using something harmless like version.lisp-expr. 11:34:25 (Only form in there is a string, which has no side-effect by definition.) 11:35:24 *_3b* would probably just use the --no* options 11:36:32 The thing is, the --no* options are version-dependent, while using version.lisp-expr or something will always work. 11:36:51 <_3b> will it even build on sbcl <= 0.9.11? 11:36:55 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 11:37:04 <_3b> which appears to be when they were added 11:37:43 Umm... That's a point. The Win32 port had some nasty bugs even as recently as 1.0. 11:38:02 <_3b> added along with code to use them in exactly this situation... wonder what happened to that 11:39:40 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 11:40:20 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 11:41:25 <_3b> (or maybe i'm reading it wrong, and it doesn't use them) 11:43:51 *_3b* wouldn't object to using an empty file or whatever if it meant something got checked in though :) 11:46:54 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:50:25 Joreji [n=nah@46-021.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:53:29 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:58:48 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-57-5.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:00:43 josemanuel [n=josemanu@8.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:00:48 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:01:06 kinnetica [n=kinnetic@208-58-64-106.c3-0.129-ubr4.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:08:44 -!- tabbot [n=tabb0t@122.172.123.175] has quit ["leaving...."] 12:09:15 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:11:43 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:13:12 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:18:09 -!- kinnetica [n=kinnetic@208-58-64-106.c3-0.129-ubr4.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 12:21:31 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:35 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@nomad50136.netlogon.lu.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:24:08 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:24:36 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.9] has joined #lisp 12:27:47 kinnetica [n=kinnetic@208-58-64-106.c3-0.129-ubr4.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:21 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:53:34 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-239.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:59:17 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-181.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:09:48 S11001001: I followed the instruction to install sbcl, I hope to make a tarball so that it can be unpacked and used elsewhere. How to pack the lisp source file in a way that in slime it will automatically find the source with M-.? 13:09:50 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6167.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:59 jfactor [n=jfactor@student166-227.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 13:14:51 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6167.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:16:49 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:17:43 leo2007: "Just" make sure to adjust the LPN translations for SYS:. 13:23:35 nyef: I am too new to common lisp to understand that. 13:24:28 leo2007: Evaluate (logical-pathname-translations "SYS") at the REPL. It's an accessor, so setf a fixed value back. 13:25:34 It should be fairly obvious how to fix the value by hand. Doing so programmatically might be harder. 13:27:22 nyef: it does not look difficult to modify. Is it possible to change those values on files and then recompile those files? 13:27:51 For non-system-source it's iffier. 13:28:18 iffier? 13:28:26 Essentially, if the file was accessed via a logical pathname host (something like SYS: the way the system sources were), then "just" fixing up the translation makes things work. 13:29:03 <_3b> leo2007: do you always unpack the source to the same place? 13:29:20 If they were accessed via a "physical" pathname, though, you basically have to find the debug-info for the file and patch that, or compile it from the new place in the first place. 13:29:38 I unpacked the source in my home dir, but the install_root is /usr/local 13:30:22 Is this just the SBCL source you're worried about finding? 13:30:24 after install, M-. still finds source in the original place, which will not work if I move those installed files to other machine 13:31:00 <_3b> easiest would be to just bulid from wherever you plan to install the source, if that will be a consistent place 13:31:08 If so, just tweak the translation for SYS:SRC and SYS:CONTRIB and dump a new core. 13:31:16 nyef: yes, I want to pack sbcl in such a way that the source files are included. 13:31:16 <_3b> or that :) 13:31:40 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E45DE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:31:49 _3b: Looks like using version.lisp-expr as a userinit and sysinit works. 13:33:07 how can i find all superclasses of a predefined class? 13:33:34 krumholt: Ask the MOP for it's class-precendence-list? 13:34:23 Err... precedence. 13:34:28 Something like that. 13:36:40 Why do you even need to know such a thing, though? 13:37:14 nyef, i have a class someone else defined and i want to know what classes this class implements 13:37:45 Have you considered reading the source code? 13:38:34 yes as a last resort. i figured maybe there was a (superclass 'myclass) command 13:39:04 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=jimi_hen@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:39:16 Umm... There might be. 13:39:36 Something like class-direct-superclasses, maybe? 13:40:40 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6167.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:20 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:47 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-31-6.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:47:33 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-38-115.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:48:34 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.175] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:49:32 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-42-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:50:02 futuresoon [n=futureso@cpe-68-175-67-66.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:32 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:39 maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has joined #lisp 13:56:54 Thank you nyef and _3b 13:58:04 -!- ausente [n=lhugbj@189-19-113-191.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #lisp 14:03:33 _3b: Okay, 1.0.28 should be easier to build on Win32. 14:03:42 <_3b> nyef: cool 14:03:47 bhyde [n=bhyde@c-66-30-202-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:41 plutonas [n=plutonas@nomad50136.netlogon.lu.se] has joined #lisp 14:04:48 -!- jho [n=jh@unaffiliated/cene] has quit ["Procastination is like masturbation; it feels really good until you realize you've just fucked yourself."] 14:05:55 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 14:05:58 if i change inferior-lisp-program from clbuild lisp to clbuild preloaded i get "The value # is not of type SYMBOL." ... any suggestions? 14:06:58 Don't Do That, Then? 14:07:36 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-82.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:07:41 that worked! :) 14:08:51 I'm going to go find food, and don't know if my connection will hold up. If I go offline it should be for an hour at worst. 14:10:22 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has joined #lisp 14:11:50 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 14:13:33 Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:16:10 -!- futuresoon [n=futureso@cpe-68-175-67-66.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:19:05 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 14:24:37 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B6CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:25:31 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:25:42 If I want to find the actual memory usage of a list vs a vector, what can I use? Do I have to use room, create the storage and then room again? 14:27:44 You're probably looking at (at least) 2 words per cons, versus ~1 word per element in a vector + some small constant overhead. 14:30:11 Thanks pkhuong, Could I expect to traverse a vector faster than a list? When all I do is iterate across the whole sequence. 14:30:37 <_3b> it might have better cache performance 14:31:04 Maybe. You're probably doing more expensive stuff computation-wise though. There might be a difference due to caches. 14:31:57 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 14:32:09 -!- manic12_ [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:32:54 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:54 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:35:45 ejs [n=eugen@8-153-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:47 Great, thankyou. I've not optimized this app at all as yet and just trying to get a feel for what happens beneath the covers. 14:36:57 before I start that is 14:37:21 Don't forget to profile before you optimize. 14:38:17 -!- Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:39:54 Yes, will do. I'm about to get stuck into that in the coming few days. Still a couple of bugs left to resolve. 14:45:38 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 14:46:53 actually, step 0: build interesting or representative test cases. 14:48:43 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:49:27 Ah yes, my data is mostly historical and I do have some fixed algo's I can run across it. There some easy pickings for test cases. 14:50:45 singhv [n=vsingh@CPE0014bf4af6c2-CM000a739caee2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:32 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-68-239-77-4.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:27 _3b: I'm bored so I'm going to clean-up and extend the swig/allegrocl opengl wrappers, any idea where I get the right header files for win x64 gl extensions? 14:53:54 how often can you run them in a decent amount of time? How large is the range between, say the second and third quintile, etc? Can you tell how to interpret the result and map from timings to a rough idea of the performance of the key chunks of code under interesting conditions? 14:55:13 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-239.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:56:28 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:57:02 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6167.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:58:00 My current run time is about 80 mins. I think that must process somewhere in the region of 10M data points. However I believe I can run some cases in about 10 mins that would give a good representation of what's going on. 14:59:06 However these base algo's are easy to cache so that 80 mins can be drastically reduced. I provide a platform for ad-hoc algos to be submitted and that's where this will really get interesting. 14:59:20 I'm weeks away from that point though! 15:00:00 tritchey [n=tritchey@12.187.234.40] has joined #lisp 15:00:03 garslo [n=user@ppp-69-217-237-247.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:20 All good pointers to keep me focused though! Thanks! 15:02:24 -!- ejs [n=eugen@8-153-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:03:25 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:06:19 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"] 15:14:05 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 15:15:47 -!- Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:19:20 pkhuong, interesting your reply to my query yesterday regarding push. In all my years I had never realized it was destructive and always setf'd the output! I'm glad you pointed that out 15:21:26 (macroexpand-1 '(push 1 some-list)) take a look :) 15:22:12 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:47 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@12.187.234.40] has quit [] 15:27:56 ourizo [n=ourizo@152.Red-79-156-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:30 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:30:10 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@C6770.c.ppp-pool.de] has quit [] 15:31:32 Please. One web with source examples? 15:33:47 http://gigamonkeys.com/book perhaps? 15:33:59 or http://common-lisp.net - check the project listings. 15:34:49 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:21 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:36:55 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:37:09 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-85.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:37:14 pandaka [n=yohan@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:37:59 -!- pandaka [n=yohan@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 15:38:11 milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.46] has joined #lisp 15:38:23 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:38:40 Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:39:38 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:17 Thanks tic :) 15:43:23 -!- Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 15:43:50 -!- srart [n=srart@d14-69-182-170.try.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 15:45:19 -!- kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:30 _8david [n=user@pD9540288.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:33 Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:00:46 kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:18 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-15-52.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:01:26 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:01:26 Good afternoon. 16:04:04 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:04:48 -!- lichtblau [n=user@pD95405DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:09:00 -!- kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:09:03 kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:47 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:58 Hello beach. 16:17:00 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-83.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:17:01 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:17 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:17:41 Hmm, I must be very used to the tunes.org logs, and now I don't have them :( 16:19:59 so...there are *no* logs? 16:20:09 ccl's logs. 16:20:39 ah 16:20:56 Hrm... Might be interesting to add logging to lisppaste... 16:21:49 But definately not a project for right now. 16:22:14 hm...language developer's dogfood project: log your irc channel 16:22:43 <_3b> logging is easy... doing something useful with the logs is the hard part :) 16:22:43 or irc library developer, or whatever 16:23:03 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.245.161] has joined #lisp 16:23:21 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 16:23:25 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:28 oop 16:29:19 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 16:29:37 Hey, what was the link to that vim lisp IDE? 16:30:01 <_3b> minion: vim 16:30:02 vim: The Vi family of editors (with vim probably being the most frequently used implementation) is almost universally "the other editor" to Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/vim 16:30:11 minion: limp? 16:30:12 limp: Limp, a Lisp IDE for vim. http://www.cliki.net/limp 16:30:35 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:30:41 -!- kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:30:50 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 16:31:11 kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:13 thx 16:35:02 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:36:13 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:38:26 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 16:38:41 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Success] 16:38:53 is there a way to select a specified window with elisp? 16:39:04 Damn. I -do- have a rootkit on my system. :-/ 16:39:05 windows doesn't have names afaik 16:39:25 fax-machine: That's more of a #emacs question, really. 16:39:59 they didn't answer :\ i'm sorry for bothering this channel with elisp questions really 16:41:06 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279776576.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 16:43:23 I presume you're talking about an emacs "window" rather than an emacs "frame" or non-emacs window? 16:43:48 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:44:08 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:44:29 How do you use limp? 16:45:45 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@nomad50136.netlogon.lu.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:46:23 Wow! 16:46:33 i a dark room, while no one sees 16:49:16 ejs [n=eugen@8-153-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:52 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:35 tic ping 16:51:49 Error detected while processing function LimpMode_start: 16:51:49 line 12: 16:51:49 E185: Cannot find color scheme desert256 16:51:58 Limp error 16:52:16 let's take it in #limp 16:56:41 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 16:56:44 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:57:27 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 16:57:36 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:59:57 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177075228.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:22 is there a way to "or" two function calls that return multiple values? 17:00:57 mcspiff: and what would the meaning of the return value be? 17:01:09 In what sense? You want to `or` all their values? 17:01:13 or maybe "the definition"? 17:01:33 multiple-value-union? 17:02:15 well, id like to "or" each set of values individually 17:03:01 define "or" 17:03:11 tic: the way cl does? 17:03:35 maybe this is time for a paste bin 17:03:36 <_3b> (mapcar (lambda (x y) (or x y)) (multiple-value-list (a)) (multiple-value-list (b))) ? 17:03:42 mcspiff: If you had two sets of values a, b, c and d, e, f, what would you want to do with them? 17:03:54 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:04:35 Aankhen``: (values (or a d)(or b e)(or c f)) 17:04:39 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:04:54 Ah, guess _3b pretty much has you covered then. 17:05:33 <_3b> need to wrap it in values-list, and decide how you want differing # of values handled though 17:06:05 _3b: ok, so multiple-value-list and values-list is what i want... 17:06:31 <_3b> probably, if you have fixed #s of values, multiple-value-bind might be better 17:06:51 _3b: just nest the calls? 17:07:03 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:07:08 <_3b> to m-v-b? yeah 17:07:21 hmmm that sounds like the approach i want 17:07:32 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279776576.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:08:16 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4A65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:17 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:09:29 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0F0D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:06 -!- HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:10:57 -!- Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:14:34 ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 17:14:44 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.51.218] has joined #lisp 17:15:42 hello, I'm using SBCL, when I load a file in source code form, like (load "foo.lisp") then slime-edit-definition can't find its place. If I load the compiled file (load "foo.fasl") then it works, I don't understand why it doesn't work in the first case. 17:16:01 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:16:13 I mean you can't jump to a function definition defined in foo.lisp from other buffers if you load the *.lisp 17:16:15 because it is not compiled 17:16:24 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177075228.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:16:28 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177075228.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:03 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279776576.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 17:17:34 <_3b> manic12: if you didn't find it yet, gl headers are at http://www.opengl.org/registry/#headers 17:17:38 It's because when you load from the top level using #'load, it's like you are just typing that into the interpreter. 17:17:53 And of course, soemthign typed into the interpreter isn't associated with a file 17:18:05 So sb-introspect:find-definition-sources-by-name can't learn anythign about it. 17:18:47 thanks _3b, I found them 17:19:37 stassats` herbieB thanks, I did not know that 17:20:07 herbieB: "The manner in which a source file is distinguished from a compiled file is implementation-dependent." 17:20:54 herbieB: load takes a pathname, so it could, technically, learn about it 17:20:56 stassats`: Ok, then I guess we can just preface all of my statements with "In sbcl, " 17:25:46 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:26:03 Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:26:04 -!- Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:31:21 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:32:41 hi are there any books on clim or mcclim? 17:33:09 http://mcclim.cliki.net/Documentation 17:33:22 there's really just the specification 17:33:40 well, the franz and lispworks users' guides aren't half bad, either 17:33:47 oh, right. 17:33:48 tutorials are useful too 17:34:16 *hefner* is impressed with the speed at which stassats` produced that url 17:35:12 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.51.218] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:53 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.51.218] has joined #lisp 17:39:04 mega1 [n=mega@3e70dcd6.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 17:40:09 i have looked at those before. they are kind of not very useful to me 17:40:37 well, what is it you're looking for? 17:40:40 other than that, feel free to treat any kind of free clim software as your personal recipe book (: 17:40:47 (it's what I do (-;) 17:41:03 gilbert baumann's stuff is cool, as are hefner's mcclim examples 17:41:07 Examples in mcclim is helpful too 17:41:17 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.226.65] has quit ["We'd be delighted if we destabilize[d] the human-mosquito balance of power."] 17:41:30 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:42:30 a step by step example. and not too simple. there seams to be to kind of examples very simple and useless. and very complex 17:42:50 Why is lispbuilder-sdl-ttf still giving me the same "can't find the C glue library" pains as two years ago? 17:43:04 deepfire: because you haven't fixed it yet =p 17:43:15 as step-by-step examples go, I found gilbert's presentation at els 2003 very helpful. let me see if I can find the slides 17:43:29 krumholt: how about the font viewer from Gsharp? 17:43:38 I guess it is too simple as well. 17:43:49 Back then I was able to put the .so somewhere to satisfy the little ugly deity, now I cannot even do that. 17:44:17 hefner, guess what, I even reporeted the problem, iirc.. 17:44:26 heh, reported 17:44:47 beach, i meant a more commented example. like first we do this to achive a) and then we do this to achive b) 17:45:30 I still don't understand how the library paths work out with CFFI (or ld, for that matter). The one place where I use a C glue library, it just seems to work, and I cross my fingers that it stays that way. 17:46:35 krumholt: There is such an example in the McCLIM manual. 17:47:34 krumholt: this: http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/lsm-2003-slides.ps.gz may be too simple for you, but helped me understand how to go about creating a clim app 17:48:01 thanks i will look at it 17:48:05 (can you believe I looked through flux/ and cruft/ before going through the files in the top level 17:48:18 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 17:48:24 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-3.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:49:27 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:50:50 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 17:51:44 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:51:52 antifuchs: oh, it's displaying upside-down for me 17:52:06 *stassats`* turns laptop around 17:52:18 ouch, yeah. I suppose they're formatted for projectors or something. 17:52:18 antifuchs, thanks the slides are very good. i will take a close look now 17:52:32 some viewers have a "seascape" mode that is inverted landscape (: 17:52:34 krumholt: cool! 17:52:53 anyone ever turn their laptop on its side, so it stand up open like a book? I wanted to use mine as a second display that way, but X was quirky in that rotated mode. 17:53:22 hefner: don't colors look strange if you do that? 17:53:44 why would that be? 17:54:07 Heavily depends on the LCD type. 17:54:07 subpixel anti-aliasing 17:54:08 modern lcds are good enough that they shouldn't be, very 17:54:11 I have no idea. I just remember that I tried it, and got that result 17:54:33 *rsynnott* would be too worried about balance 17:54:49 I have used a laptop on its side as a book for displaying sheet music 17:54:59 I seem to remember some high-end laptops having rotatable screens in the 90s, though 17:55:02 it works surprisingly well 17:55:11 and in one extreme case, a printer! 17:55:27 The Lenovo L220x is very good at portrait-mode. 17:55:36 so is the LG Flatron L2000C. 17:58:36 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 17:58:52 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:59:08 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:59:33 *deepfire* is truly puzzled by the _foo_ function name prefix-suffix mangling in lispbuilder-sdl-ttf.. 18:00:09 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 18:00:10 Hit a bit of a weird case - if I misunderstand, please point me at the relevant part of the spec. . .. . (defun test () (let ((x 1) (x 2) (x 3)) x)) <-- In lispworks, compiled this returns 3, interpreted it returns 1 18:00:41 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:00:46 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-57-5.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:01:09 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:02:05 clhs 3.1 18:02:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_a.htm 18:02:58 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 18:04:43 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:04:59 anyway, you are using undefined behaviour, you shouldn't wonder why it behaves differently 18:05:28 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4A65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:05:38 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 18:05:39 -!- ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 18:05:53 sreeram [n=sreeram@59.92.34.75] has joined #lisp 18:06:08 stassats: Thanks. Where under here is this specified? 18:06:33 "The behavior of a conforming program processed by eval and by compile-file might differ" 18:07:00 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:07:15 though, is your program conforming? 18:07:17 Where does it claim let-order behavior is undefined? I assume this doesn't apply to flet 18:07:40 <_3b> let assigns in parallel 18:07:54 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 18:08:05 <_3b> don't think it specifies which X you get in that case though 18:08:06 Modius: it doesn't define what happens when you use the same variable more than once 18:08:14 Hun [n=Hun@p4FCF7599.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:29 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:08:30 and there is no reason to do that, anyway 18:09:39 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@59.92.34.75] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:09:39 sreeram_ [n=sreeram@59.92.34.75] has joined #lisp 18:10:13 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 18:10:26 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:10:49 -!- sreeram_ is now known as sreeram 18:11:22 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@59.92.34.75] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:11:26 fax-machine 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fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 18:49:41 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:50:04 wow, ENABLED-P slot in BASIC-SHEET vs. ENABLEDP in PANE... 18:50:05 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 18:50:21 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:51:36 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.245.161] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:51:47 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 18:52:19 prip [n=_prip@host254-129-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:56:32 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.78.242] has joined #lisp 18:58:25 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 18:59:03 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:59:24 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:46 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 19:04:05 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:05:08 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@59.92.34.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:05:20 stassats`: I agree, it was a case I spotted in the unit-tests of my codewalker (unit-tests testing both compile and noncompiling cases) 19:06:20 -!- sreeram_ is now known as sreeram 19:06:58 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-15-52.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:07:49 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.245.161] has joined #lisp 19:09:29 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-15-52.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:10:27 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has joined #lisp 19:11:06 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:11:28 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 19:12:20 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:12:45 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 19:13:52 hmm, I'm reading http://p-cos.net/documents/dynfun.pdf, and I have my doubts 19:14:00 aren't functions dynamic by default in CL? 19:14:38 ie. I can compile code which references an undefined function just fine, and it will work so long as I define it before it's actually called 19:15:12 functions only become lexical if you introduce a non-global definition with FLET 19:16:54 isn't that a bit like saying a global variable in C is dynamic because you can assign to it? 19:17:09 (and restore it later, presumably) 19:17:48 not really, because if the function was scoped lexically, the compilation would have to fail, as it's impossible to bind a lexical reference later on 19:18:32 C++ is dynamically scoped? struct Foo { void callit(){ callNotDefinedYet(); } void callNotDefinedYet(){ cout << "Hi" << endl;}}; 19:18:32 we just don't have a built-in construct like FLET for dynamic rebinding, but it doesn't change the fact that names introduced by DEFUN are dynamic by default 19:18:43 j/k 19:19:39 mathrick: no, they're global, not dynamic. 19:19:44 they have global scope 19:20:07 when people talk about "dynamic scope" what they usually mean is "global scope and dynamic extent" 19:21:18 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:21:34 DEFUN: dynamic evaluation function under nivellation ? 19:21:45 well, we have all the tooling for dynamic extent as well with FDEFINITION 19:21:52 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:22:38 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:22:45 a DFLET implemented with FDEFINITION will be crippled in the same way as a non-built-in special variables implementation would be in the presence of concurrency, but you can do it 19:24:50 and the difference in behaviour from a global lexical is? 19:25:42 no, do, please tell! 19:26:25 fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has joined #lisp 19:26:50 Krystof: the fact I can rebind the definition specially? 19:27:12 that's exactly the same as setting the global lexical 19:27:13 *dynamically 19:27:19 you can't rebind anything 19:27:20 you can only set 19:27:22 -!- bgs100 is now known as b 19:27:30 -!- b is now known as bgs100 19:27:48 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has left #lisp 19:27:49 Krystof: that's no different that saying that special variables are just global lexicals in disguise 19:27:50 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 19:28:02 except that they're not, because you can introduce new special bindings 19:28:30 please define "introduce new special bindings"? I'm not sure I grasp what you mean 19:28:54 francogrex [n=franco@91.176.143.40] has joined #lisp 19:30:03 it is useful to talk about binding a special variable, for instance in the presence of concurrency 19:30:33 why is it useful, in your world, to talk about the "default" binding of functions being "dynamic"? 19:30:59 what additional power does it give us that is different from talking about the default bindings of functions being global? 19:32:01 the answer to your question "aren't functions dynamic by default in CL?" is "not noticeably, no" 19:33:00 Krystof: dunno, I was just expressing my doubt I get the distinction correctly. I'm not sure what the difference between "you can freely refer to undefined global lexicals and set them later" and "you have dynamic bindings" is 19:34:04 bugrum [n=vedam@c-98-201-95-13.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:02 What about you thinking of it in terms of an intuitive implementation -- heap vs. stack allocated? 19:35:32 The concurrency-related distinction immediately becomes sort of obvious. 19:36:51 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:51 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:38:41 deepfire: but what makes the global lexicals lexical if I can refer to undefined ones and it's not an error and compiles just fine? 19:39:34 mathrick, CL doesn't have global lexical variables.. 19:39:39 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:39:49 You can't have an unspecial global. 19:39:55 yes 19:40:19 but as Krystof said, DEFUNs result in functions names that are global lexicals 19:40:29 I was wondering how one knows they are lexical 19:40:38 buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:40 threads, obviously 19:41:03 ie.? 19:41:51 I still can't see any defining feature that would help me distinguish global lexicals and specials. I'm genuinely confused about this issue, I've always had problems grasping the precise idea behind global lexicals 19:42:02 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-83.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 19:42:30 basically, you can shadow a DEFUN with a FLET, but this won't propagate down the stack. 19:42:54 The shadowing will be lexical. 19:44:18 The difference is in the value lookup strategy. 19:46:03 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4A65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:04 right, though I still have my gripes with the undefined references. One obvious point in lexical references is that they're basically compiled away, ie. there's no name lookup part in the resulting code 19:46:04 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:46:04 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4A65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:46:15 but if you allow references to yet undeclared values, that changes into a different variant of dynamic lookup 19:46:32 Is this a problem? 19:46:59 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4A65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:41 only in that it disturbs the otherwise very clear distinction in how the two work 19:49:11 -!- francogrex [n=franco@91.176.143.40] has left #lisp 19:49:29 HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 19:52:30 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:54:36 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:59:55 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 20:04:31 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Buganini Yuuhi fridim_ dkcl c|mell Quadrescence Spyderco jso daniel_ frontier1 LostMonarch sykopomp grkz gemelen jao mejja elias` slyrus_ H4ns2 ASau rodge p8m nicktastic mornfall scode sjbach specbot bittin- mgr madnificent kejsaren nooper rumbleca hefner DrForr alexbobp galdor Khisanth cods araujo bradbrowne Taggnostr SandGorgon S11001001 r0bby ia mikezor_ maxote slyrus gz sad0ur aunwork lisppaste ``Erik mathrick Tordek 20:34:15 -!- names: pkhuong dmiles_afk nullman joshe cmm- rlpowell stepnem krappie xristos Guest31752 dfox ivan4th cavelife^ SportChick egn Patzy xan pragma_ pok Bucciarati easch azuk Xof thijso dcrawford meingbg wgl Martinp23 kuwabara _dima tltstc Zhivago tarbo Draggor foom minion l_a_m lnostdal djkthx bfein eirik rsynnott kooll guaqua albino zbigniew cYmen dostoyevsky jyujin Riastradh retupmoca mtd Qsource AntiSpamMeta myrkraverk` billstclair glogic bkudria 20:34:15 -!- names: ramus` rotty djinni` nasloc__ yango joga moesenle ianmcorvidae Cel sbahra jeremiah jlf authentic felipe frank_s_ brandelune johs rullie pitui z0d ineiros tessier_ leo2007 srcerer froog bohanlon gzip4 Krystof BrianRice PissedNumlock Tristam _3b deech proq phadthai holycow wentbackward Jarvellis ffx` mogunus TDT boyscared doxtor tttsssttt bobf fisxoj fe[nl]ix __death Foofie sphex_ gandhijee vsync sanguine1 qebab_ @antifuchs robewald Adamant 20:34:15 -!- names: rlonstei1 dto Adrinael Modius metasyntax creddy dialtone tcoppi REPLeffect_ cracki lemoinem wlr michaelw vcgomes luis drewc kefka Soulman__ koning_robot ampleyfly deepfire Jasko abeaumont kreuter Fade tic spiaggia ryepup blast_hardcheese spacebat_ yahooooo pitui` addled nullwork joast Dave2 Aisling ilitirit guenthr ceineke_ jsnell jrockway Dazhbog p_l peddie fgtech anekos chii Ginei_Morioka bob_f herbieB housel 20:34:17 -!- jyujin [n=jyujin@d221-88-81.commercial.cgocable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:34:18 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:34:20 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:34:21 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:37:32 koaftder [n=user@adsl-221-72-129.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:03 So I guess everyone is having dinner with their families or something. 20:38:43 -!- Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:38:56 Famil...what? 20:39:14 tic: it's a strange concept. I'll explain to you one day. 20:39:19 No, not everybody :-) 20:39:55 Good to hear, in case one of my students is doing homework and needs help. 20:39:55 beach, looking forward to that. 20:41:46 Ragnaroek [i=d951c916@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-76b81b3afa6fa38a] has joined #lisp 20:44:05 i have a quick and im sure simple newbie question 20:44:24 -!- sepult_ is now known as sepult 20:44:49 kinnetica: Care to tell us more? 20:44:58 sure 20:45:10 im using sbcl & slime in emacs 20:45:16 and when i type any kind of assignment in the repl 20:45:22 like (setf x 10) 20:45:32 i get a warning saying that x is undefined 20:45:33 clhs defparameter 20:45:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpar.htm 20:45:48 kinnetica: you need to define special variables before assigning to them. 20:46:30 for some reason i was under the impression that setf handles that 20:46:42 your impression was wrong. 20:47:48 so i use defparameter to define a special variable and then assign to it using setf 20:48:02 kinnetica: yes, or defvar 20:48:14 Yeah. And you should earmuff it. (defparameter *x*). But, you can also introduce lexical variables in LET bindings. 20:48:45 ok 20:48:47 thanks a lot 20:49:01 No problem. 20:49:25 is there any difference between defparameter and defvar 20:49:35 defvar initializes just once 20:49:35 and different reasons to use each one 20:49:37 tic, this only works with defvar 20:49:44 Yes. Defparameter always sets the value, defvar only initialized unbound variables. 20:49:47 deepfire, oh, bummer. sorry about that. 20:50:00 deepfire, (not even nil?) 20:50:14 tic, defparameter needs a value.. 20:50:19 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:50:23 I installed McCLIM on my box but when I try to load mcclim-truetype SBCL tells me "component "mcclim-truetype" not found" 20:50:33 -!- kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:50:41 does anyone have any ideas why this is happening? 20:50:49 bugrum: how did you "load" it? 20:51:07 beach: (require 'mcclim) 20:51:30 bugrum: try (asdf-operate 'asdf:load-op :McCLIM) 20:51:31 beach: and I did a (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :mcclim-truetype) 20:51:37 oh 20:51:52 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 20:53:32 bugrum: looks like you need to load an extra asdf file. 20:54:05 bugrum: Try loading Experimental/freetype/McCLIM-truetype.asd first, and then do the (asdf:operate ...) 20:54:15 -!- koaftder [n=user@adsl-221-72-129.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:54:34 er, make that mcclim-truetype.asd 20:55:06 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:15 *hefner* recommends mcclim-freetype, unless you already have the dependencies for mcclim-truetype and prefer 100% lisp solutions or blurry text 20:56:28 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:56:33 beach: okay it looked like it got loaded using that 20:57:04 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 20:57:18 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 20:57:20 hefner: I haven't tried both solutions, I will try both before making any judgements on which one is has "blurry test" 20:57:27 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:57:46 thanks for the recommendation though 20:58:20 *hefner* wonders if mcclim-truetype and mcclim-freetype could each twiddle asdf to make it seem as though the other hadn't been loaded, to ease switching between them 20:58:43 Probably straightforward enough. 20:59:28 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:36 -!- sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:59:47 -!- buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-101-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:59:48 kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:28 (setf (gethash (asdf::coerce-name name) asdf::*defined-systems*) nil) 21:02:43 i'm trying to load an asdf package and call a function through 'sbcl --eval', but sbcl complains that it can't find the package where the function is. is there any way to do this? 21:04:06 ramus, any chance you do it in a single progn form? 21:04:20 yeah, that's what i'm doing 21:04:22 ramus`: We might have some problems with vocabulary here. ASDF manages things called systems. Packages in Common Lisp are namespaces. 21:04:32 let me get the input/output into a pastebin then, sec 21:04:36 ramus, no need 21:05:05 ramus`: Also, functions are not defined in packages. Symbols are. 21:05:18 ramus`: the thing about packages is that they have to be defined before you can read in code that refers to them. in practice, this means you have to do things in two steps. 21:05:21 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:05:33 Try this: sbcl --eval "(asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'PACKAGE)" --eval "(PACKAGE:FUNCTION ARGS)" 21:05:41 although here, I think you can.. yeah, what herbieB 21:05:45 ..said. 21:05:56 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 21:06:18 That way there's two reader calls, not just one (the reader is where you're havnig the problem, it doesn't understand the package part of the symbol it's reading) 21:06:23 herbieB, tsk, he should have figured it out by himself... 21:06:37 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:06:44 As a side note, why does the reader not just assume that the package will be defined by the time it gets to the point of needing to eval the symbol? 21:06:52 deepfire: I disagree. that stuff is no fun. 21:07:05 IE, treat the package as a type of symbol itself, or the whole thing as one giant symbol 21:07:21 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 21:07:57 that works, thanks 21:08:23 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:09:03 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:52 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 21:11:53 -!- Ragnaroek [i=d951c916@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-76b81b3afa6fa38a] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:13:07 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.46] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:13:18 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has joined #lisp 21:15:50 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:17:10 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has quit [Client Quit] 21:17:13 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has joined #lisp 21:17:20 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:17:26 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has joined #lisp 21:19:13 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 21:25:08 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:25:44 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 21:26:21 luis: I've got some trivial-garbage hacks for you 21:28:43 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has joined #lisp 21:29:48 happy religious holiday everyone. do we have a corresponding new mcclim release? 21:31:03 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:31:07 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 21:31:15 slyrus_: Don't think so. Plus, it didn't start out like that. It started with Armistice which is not a religious holiday. 21:31:26 ok, fine :) 21:31:30 slyrus_, no commits since february, afaics.. 21:31:44 ah, perfection has been achieved then? great :) 21:39:44 luis: in your mail if you are reading this backlog 21:39:56 -!- kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:41:55 dreish_ [n=dreish@207.138.47.153] has joined #lisp 21:43:11 kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:51 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:46:00 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 21:47:42 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-68-239-77-4.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:49:42 md1 [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 21:51:57 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:52:58 Hi, I am getting strange behaviour sometimes in SBCL 1.0.27/linux-x86-64, join-thread returns to calling thread, but the joined thread keeps running. Can't really reproduce so far now. Anybody saw something similar? 21:53:41 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:54:13 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 21:54:19 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:20 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:55:22 Nope, not on linux. 21:56:20 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 21:57:21 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:58:12 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:58:31 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:58:47 -!- dreish_ [n=dreish@207.138.47.153] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:59:42 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 21:59:57 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:00:06 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.78.242] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:01:10 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:03:16 -!- sepult is now known as sepult_ 22:04:13 I forget, are :around-methods invoked least-specific-outermost? 22:05:13 nope. 22:06:12 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:06:14 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:00 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279776576.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:07:16 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-22-57-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:26 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:09 :most-specific-last is only for primary methods, unfortunately. Looks like you might have to define your own method combination? 22:08:42 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-26.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:08:44 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 22:12:11 hefner pasted "wrapper method combination" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78469 22:12:44 any reconmendations for an xml parser lib? 22:13:24 minion: cxml 22:13:25 cxml: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/cxml 22:13:32 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:18 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177075228.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:14:51 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177075228.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:12 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:15:41 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:04 -!- a-s [n=user@92.81.117.113] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:06 pkhuong: looking at cxml, but having a dumb problem with it. I can get my vector full of nodes, but how can I extract the text from them? i.e if i have a node object representing 'abc' how do i extract the "abc" 22:16:26 pkhuong: fully aware problem is between keyboard and chair ;-) 22:17:45 depends on the representation you chose. If you went with a CXML-STP sink, you can look for nodes of class TEXT and access their content with the accessor function DATA. 22:18:50 pkhuong: havent looked at cxml-stp, ill take a look now 22:20:03 -!- sepult_ is now known as sepult 22:21:09 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 22:22:35 killring [n=killring@adsl-76-232-151-155.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:34 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:08 pkhuong annotated #78410 "results on an O2352" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78410#1 22:29:22 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:30:11 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@8.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:31:23 _vindimy [i=vindimy@netblock-208-127-21-165.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:52 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3243-ipbf807aobadori.miyagi.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 22:35:18 cavelife [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] 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(Connection timed out)] 23:12:05 Why is darcs push so unbelievably slow lately? (onto c-l.net at least) 23:12:13 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 23:12:51 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:13:06 Anyone else got the same problem? 23:13:58 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-101-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:14:16 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 23:14:44 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:15:01 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 23:15:39 -!- fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:16:28 fax-machine [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 23:17:06 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279776576.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 23:19:53 jfactor [n=jfactor@student166-239.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 23:21:26 I'm trying to install slime, emacs, clisp, but when I start up emacs it says that it has an error in reading the .emacs file and when I type M-x slime it says it can't find it. ?? 23:22:35 Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:24:34 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:26:01 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has joined #lisp 23:26:20 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 23:27:38 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279776576.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:29:30 -!- colton_ [n=colton@ip72-220-44-155.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:29:31 colton_: on what platform ? windows linux ? 23:30:14 -!- kinnetica [n=kinnetic@208-58-64-106.c3-0.129-ubr4.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 23:30:35 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 23:30:36 colton_: did you put the slime folder into emacs/site-lisp folder ? 23:31:09 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:31:30 fax-mach` [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 23:31:41 -!- Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-15-218.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:31:45 -!- fax-mach` [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:31:58 kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:41 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:32:58 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:35 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:34:37 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 23:35:51 empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 23:36:01 buggarage [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-101-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:36:07 -!- empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:36:50 empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 23:37:17 -!- empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:39:28 empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 23:42:22 -!- empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:26 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:53 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279776576.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:47:00 kinnetica [n=kinnetic@208-58-64-106.c3-0.129-ubr4.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:04 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:06 _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:30 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279776576.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:52:41 _8david` [n=user@pD9542C42.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:53:12 anybody knows whether it's safe to let my timer run in "initial" thread? 23:53:28 or in "control" thread by that matter? 23:54:07 stupid question; sbcl's disassembler has a traditional "intel" syntax but I swear some of the opcodes look like they have their arguments reversed. could it be ..? like, it has at&t syntax without the syntatic sugar? 23:54:56 mov edx, [ebp-12] mov edi, [ebp-16] <-- this in a function prologue? 23:56:35 actually I'm only looking to guarantee that calling a GF implies a specific compile-time-determined dynamic context around all methods, so might be looking into mop:MML or mop:CAM or something I guess 23:56:49 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-22-57-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:57:06 empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 23:57:12 md1: i would think so, if your control thread isn't doing anything else but wait for some time and interrupt other worker threads (high-level generic advice, nothing implementation specific) 23:57:12 I dislike the notion of touching MML at all though 23:57:41 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-22-57-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:47 -!- empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:58:06 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:58:33 empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 23:58:49 -!- empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:59:44 empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has joined #lisp 23:59:59 -!- empty-space [n=user@88.238.207.213] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]