00:00:20 -!- bobf_ [n=bob@host86-147-206-230.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:00:40 -!- kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:02:05 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 00:03:55 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCD094.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 00:05:31 <_3b> Guest11901: lispbuilder-sdl doesn't have GL bindings 00:05:49 <_3b> Guest11901:cl-opengl works with lispbulder-sdl if you need both sdl and gl 00:06:29 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:48 <_3b> (at least they don't have supported bindings, they might still have old ones in the repo, but they dropped them in favor of cl-opengl last heard) 00:07:25 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:09:07 kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:41 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 00:12:38 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@128.164.102.96] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:13:53 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:13:59 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-249.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:15:08 -!- kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:15:48 kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 00:16:12 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C2E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:26 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-249.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:17:38 hmm, thanks _3b 00:22:07 -!- nis [n=nicolas@91-165-132-107.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:22:18 nis [n=nicolas@91-165-132-107.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:33 by the way, i saw a simple exe file named tclkit while a was trying to figure out the ABLE ide, in the website it says "Tclkit is a compact, single file executable containing a complete scripting runtime, including a rich scripting language (Tcl), a high-level GUI toolkit (Tk)..." is that mean it can be used to run programs in which i used ltk without installing tcl/tk on system? 00:22:55 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:22:55 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:23:22 i didn't have tcl/tk installed on my windows but able worked using this runtime i think, does anyone know of it? 00:24:13 <_3b> in windows, you'd probably just put the tcl/tk .dll in the dir with the app 00:24:52 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-89-114.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:25:56 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B3BA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:28:54 beach``` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-125-94.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:29:00 in ltk website it says "To use Ltk you need of course tcl/tk installed. This should be default on most Linux systems, for Windows/Mac OS you need to download and install tcl/tk. Ltk has been tested against Tcl/Tk 8.4, but other versions should work also. " 00:29:06 beach```` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-34-174.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:29:37 <_3b> right, as a dev you'd probably want it installed globally to avoid copying it to every project 00:29:39 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:29:40 so i thought this tclkit is an advantage :) it seems its now 00:29:55 not* 00:30:10 <_3b> but for distribution, just ship the required pieces with teh app 00:30:29 hmm, i get it, thanks :) 00:30:36 <_3b> couldn't tell from the website if that tclkit would help or not, i'd guess not though 00:31:10 uninverted [n=njs@ip98-184-79-192.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:57 -!- uninverted [n=njs@ip98-184-79-192.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:33:33 -!- tweek__ [n=tweek@host-5-159-107-208.midco.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:33:37 uninverted [n=njs@ip98-184-79-192.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:17 Can you setf the values returned by assoc? 00:35:29 -!- Guest11901 [n=kenan@88.238.45.235] has quit [] 00:37:12 uninverted: it returns the key-value cons if any; you can (setf cdr) or (setf car) [more rarely]. 00:37:20 -!- dec142 [n=Declan@86-45-249-216-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:37:48 Thanks; that should save me a huge headache. 00:37:51 -!- uninverted [n=njs@ip98-184-79-192.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:38:55 isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:04 -!- isomer [n=isomer@CPE001310e6cb31-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:39:10 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 00:39:13 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-68-170.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:44:50 -!- nis [n=nicolas@91-165-132-107.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:46:06 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-89-114.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read 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#lisp 01:16:18 decaf [n=mkose@81.215.202.193] has joined #lisp 01:16:48 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:52 hi. isn't |#'| unnecessary in (remove-if-not #'(lambda (x) (= 0 (mod x 2))) '(1 2)) 01:18:21 <_3b> right, it is not needed there 01:18:43 thanks 01:20:12 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:31:15 decaf: (LAMBDA ...) is a macro that expands to (FUNCTION (LAMBDA ...)), so the two forms are equivalent in that expression. 01:33:00 I know this from a book I read partly earlier. this example is from "practical common lisp". caused confusion 01:37:31 decaf: you don't have to have it. some people like to anyway 01:41:48 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C2E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:42:12 legumbre` [n=user@r190-135-33-217.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:42:34 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:51 -!- kpreid 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[n=hans@p57A0C2E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:27 -!- tritchey__ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:06:32 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:06:36 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:18 -!- vinleod [n=vince@63.229.138.226] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:07:47 vinleod [n=vince@63.229.138.226] has joined #lisp 03:12:21 -!- sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:14:06 weirdo [n=sthalik@c130-219.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 03:15:32 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:58 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-33-217.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:16:03 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-33-217.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:16:22 beach```` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-61-17.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:16:27 -!- beach```` is now known as beach 03:17:02 Good morning. 03:18:22 hey 03:18:27 -!- dreish_ [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:21:14 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:23:51 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-33-217.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:24:05 hi lisp 03:24:19 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 03:24:50 hello holycow 03:25:02 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:09 -!- vinleod [n=vince@63.229.138.226] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:31:46 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 03:35:58 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:36:54 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:10 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 03:41:53 -!- Dave2 [i=Dave2@freenode/staff/dave2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:42:00 Dave2 [i=Dave2@freenode/staff/dave2] has joined #lisp 03:44:25 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:45:10 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-144-151.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:46:37 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:49:29 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-127-204.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:49:45 someguy2852735 [n=user@atlaswireless.nomads.utk.edu] has joined #lisp 03:49:52 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-61-17.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:49:54 -!- beach` is now known as beach 03:50:02 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 03:50:20 Is there an easy way to make a hash-table from a CLOS object? 03:50:57 someguy2852735: What do you imagine the result would be? 03:51:28 Like '((slot-name . slot-value) ...) except a hash-table. 03:51:57 someguy2852735: You would have to loop over the slots of the object yourself. 03:53:58 tweek__ [n=tweek@host-5-159-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:07 Is there a nice way to do that? 03:54:12 loop over the slots? 03:54:13 -!- bighouse [n=bighouse@modemcable012.160-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:54:21 someguy2852735: You would have to use the MOP. 03:54:24 is it alright if I ask general advice for homework assignments here? 03:54:30 Ok, thanks. 03:54:33 -!- someguy2852735 [n=user@atlaswireless.nomads.utk.edu] has left #lisp 03:54:55 tweek__: Sure, as long as it is clear that that's what you are doing. 03:55:05 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-75-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:55:28 my next assignment is to implement an Othello player in Lisp. 03:55:38 nis_ [n=nicolas@91-165-138-179.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:50 the first obvious step is to choose the representation of boards, and of the possible next moves. 03:56:09 since I know nothing about lisp, what I'm about to say is probably going to sound stupid: 03:56:16 -!- Joreji [n=nah@46-021.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:56:28 -!- jao [n=jao@obfw.oblong.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:56:30 -!- Hansel [n=chatzill@cpe-66-65-25-217.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:56:37 fixed-width bit vector wrapped in a CLOS class to allow for members that generate the sequence of possible moves as a list 03:57:30 two 64-bit (or however long for arbitrary board sizes) bit vectors to represent a board state. one to represent black/white pieces, another as flags to represent pieces that are present on the board 03:57:47 this will fit inside 128 bits, or 16 bytes 03:58:42 then, a hash table of some sort to keep track of board positions that have already been evaluated - there will need to be some sort of way to hash board states, and some sort of way to control the hash table from getting too big 03:58:44 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-112-62.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:59:16 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-127-204.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:59:19 -!- beach` is now known as beach 03:59:51 hmm, this ISP is MUCH worse than usual. 04:00:11 I suppose they have oversold their bandwidth. 04:00:14 move out of the sticks, gentlemen 04:07:08 -!- nis [n=nicolas@91-165-132-107.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:09:56 tweek__, you need 2 bits for every board square 04:10:02 yep 04:10:12 there's a othello player in PAIP 04:10:12 two vectors. one for b/w, one for presence 04:10:38 uh, no, why bother with 2 vectors? that's overhead 04:11:34 <_3b> managing bit by hand is overhead too :) 04:11:57 ASau [n=user@host176-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 04:12:11 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 04:13:45 I'll try something w/ bloomier filter & zobrist hashing (and probably some sort of periodic reset to avoid saturating the filter) in a similar context. 04:13:53 will you be using monte carlo evaluation or something else? 04:14:02 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 04:14:40 <_3b> you could probably save some bytes by storing the board from the center out and dropping the 0 bits from the end 04:15:29 sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 04:17:09 wouldn't offer too much of a benefit if the representation's spiral doesn't go in the direction that the game is happening, and it'd be rather hellish to do simple things like find out where the next moves are 04:17:44 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:17:50 e.g., the game heads to the north edge quickly, and your representation scheme starts at the center and spirals out to that edge near the tail 04:18:22 <_3b> well, you probably want to account for symmetry, so normalize it into a form that works best :) 04:18:27 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 04:19:29 the board can be rotated four times with no change to the configuration 04:20:02 I was thinking of doing some bitwise magic or something to ensure that the first 16 bits always have the most pieces, or something 04:20:51 Allow some probability for errors, don't store the board -> simplify and win. 04:23:32 now that I think about it, if all I'm storing is static evaluations of board positions for purposes of state-space search 04:24:17 why would I bother worrying about symmetry if position A is basically impossible to come up if position B is its rotation and it's already appeared 04:25:41 in fact, there's always N - P pieces on the board for N turns and P passes, so I could get away with using several different hashtables and letting the GC collect them as the turns go by 04:26:02 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633728.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:26:03 you can always write some accessor functions for the board and change the impl if that turns out to be the bottleneck 04:26:43 what I'm mostly here to ask is 04:26:53 does any of this even make sense in lisp? 04:27:08 <_3b> why wouldn't it? 04:27:26 are bitwise ops basically free like they are in C on vectors, do class methods add any overhead or are they just elaborate macros 04:27:27 lisp can do its share of bit twiddling 04:27:30 <_3b> you have bit vectors, arbitrary length integers, 2d arrays, etc to choose from 04:27:51 there are no "class methods" 04:28:05 dkcl [n=dkcl@202.67.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 04:28:16 <_3b> going through clos would be slower than using C macros to flip bits, yes... but probably easier to write and modify 04:28:56 are hashtables sane to use for what I plan? 04:29:11 another thing: I'm thinking about fully evaluating the edges 04:29:33 can I then store the results somehow and read it into a hashtable to be used for evaluation of edge configurations without gigantic penalties? 04:31:04 so many things that could go wrong ... this Lisp stuff still seems like black magic to me 04:34:56 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:31 metaprogramming aside, lisp is just another eagerly-evaluated latently-typed language 04:35:35 not much to be afraid of 04:37:47 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 04:39:40 minion, tell tweek__ about pcl 04:39:41 tweek__: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 04:40:23 reading through 'Successful Lisp' right now 04:53:20 jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:00:57 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-210-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:39 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-28-249.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:05:36 -!- nis_ [n=nicolas@91-165-138-179.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:06:44 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-28-249.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:08:01 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:27 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0C2E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:51 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-112-62.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:23:53 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C2E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:29:29 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0C2E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:31:55 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4b74.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 05:32:29 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:34:31 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 05:43:05 adityo [n=adityo@59.183.42.50] has joined #lisp 05:43:57 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:47:14 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 05:47:18 Good morning. 05:48:16 morning beach 05:48:48 hey slyrus_, what's up? 05:49:36 oh, the usual... keeping busy. on the side, trying to rebuild some of my old lisp stuff after a length hiatus 05:49:40 and you? 05:49:43 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 05:49:50 had a bottle of Ch Petrus the other day. 05:50:22 ooh, nice. '05? 05:51:52 slyrus_: I actually don't know, for reasons I'll tell you some other time. 05:52:01 heh. ok. 05:52:23 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:09 the problem with building everything from scratch (where scratch == a bunch of lisp expressions) is that you have to remember how to build everything. a broken transformation along the way leads to a lot of debugging headache. 05:53:35 joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 05:56:48 nuntius [n=nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:12 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Client Quit] 06:00:47 -!- nuntius [n=nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:05:11 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-a306e372eb552935] has joined #lisp 06:05:51 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-a306e372eb552935] has left #lisp 06:06:39 ntoll [n=ntoll@82-69-19-185.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:09:27 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:29:26 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:30:07 hello 06:30:35 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:41 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:10 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-136-180.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:30 good morning 06:35:25 adityo_ [n=adityo@59.183.42.50] has joined #lisp 06:40:38 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:44:17 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 06:44:36 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:44:38 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:02 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 06:47:13 -!- adityo [n=adityo@59.183.42.50] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:47:41 p0a [n=user@athedsl-4409990.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 06:47:41 Hello 06:47:50 Is (setf (if ....) val) undefined? 06:49:29 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:49:39 dialtone1 [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:32 For example, clisp does'nt seem to complain with (setf l '( 1 2 3)) (setf (if t (car l) (cadr l)) 'a) to make l ==> '(A 2 3) 06:51:40 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:51:47 But sbcl doesn't accept this, I assume it's because this form is undefined? It's a limitation of SETF, correctly? 06:53:15 Yeah. I don't knwo what the standard defines as required setf expanders to be included. 06:54:07 alright thanks 06:54:18 I was actually not aware of this until today that I switched from clisp to sbcl 06:54:36 well, it's not really my fault since I was using functions I hadn't read the documentation first, but you can't do everything correctly :-) 06:56:22 edeion [n=ed@eccica.inria.fr] has joined #lisp 06:57:28 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:58:43 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.190.219] has joined #lisp 06:59:13 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:01:58 -!- dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:04:02 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.157.39] has joined #lisp 07:06:52 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:06:54 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:08:13 Taggnostr2 [n=x@130.232.126.213] has joined #lisp 07:09:00 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:09:18 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:09:27 cracki [n=cracki@46-051.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:10:53 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:12:02 morning 07:12:51 p0a_ [n=user@athedsl-4409990.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:15:05 Ragnaroek [i=8f5df993@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-78aa0f267d280706] has joined #lisp 07:15:07 jocke [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has joined #lisp 07:15:42 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:17:48 splittist [n=dmurray@154-6.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:17:49 morning 07:21:35 how's the lawyering business? 07:21:37 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-124-44.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:24:32 Krystof: Well, I'd hate to think I'd personally precipitated the global economic crisis by entering the luxury services sector, but... 07:24:44 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:25:24 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:26:10 How's the edumakashun biz? I have heard the comment that there has been a return to the solid values of CompSci following the banking fallout. Or, at least, a reverse in the decline in enrollment in computer-related courses. 07:28:25 -!- ltriant [n=luket@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:29:22 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:29:29 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-4409990.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:29:45 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 07:30:49 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:31:59 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:34:34 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c130-219.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:35:48 the finanshal krisis will set everything straight, you'll see 07:35:56 elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:36:31 -!- p0a_ is now known as p0a 07:36:36 cmm: no it won't 07:37:00 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-129-205.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:37:38 straight out the window maybe. 07:38:34 cmm: "One should love financial crises, they are so tasty" sort of a thing? 07:39:01 cracki_ [n=cracki@46-051.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:48:40 http://rafb.net/p/Ljx5OR58.html 07:48:45 anything glaringly wrong with this? 07:49:03 in terms of style or blatantly bad practices or etc. 07:50:49 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:08 I might suggest the use of defparameter. 07:51:09 <_3b> use spaces instead of tabs :p 07:51:18 I would have thought colour would be an attribute of piece. 07:51:52 I'm keeping two separate bit vectors, one for the presence/absence of a piece, and one for its color 07:52:17 <_3b> don't use eq on numbers (and use zerop to test for = 0) 07:52:21 128 bits / 16 bytes total storage per 07:52:24 The flet seems to be laid out strangely, and there doesn't seem to be a good reason for it to be in the loop. 07:52:28 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:52:55 And the cond within might be better replaced with case. 07:53:03 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 07:53:09 splittist: That would be a good thing for us. On the other hand, we haven't had as many problems as they do in anglophone countries. 07:53:36 didn't know lisp had a case 07:53:58 line 21 might profit from and 'and'. 07:54:26 er, an 'and'. 07:54:37 dto [n=user@68-187-212-45.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:55:11 <_3b> don't put only 1 branch of an IF on the same line as the IF 07:55:45 -!- cracki [n=cracki@46-051.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:56:34 Personally I would specify the row size and square it to get the board size. Clearer intent, less chance for errors. 07:57:13 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:57:16 And an evenp check on the row size too 07:58:15 adityo [n=adityo@59.183.19.44] has joined #lisp 07:58:50 with an assert? 08:00:07 Perhaps just error/die or give restarts for +1 or -1. 08:00:40 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 08:02:20 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:32 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-11317.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 08:04:05 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@y192016.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:04:22 _8david [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 08:05:21 splittist: yes, applicant numbers are up, even in second-string institutions like ours 08:06:27 -!- adityo_ [n=adityo@59.183.42.50] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:07:36 c|mell [n=cmell@x250038.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 08:07:38 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 08:10:50 -!- HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:10:55 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 08:14:31 -!- Taggnostr2 [n=x@130.232.126.213] has quit [] 08:14:54 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 08:16:08 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:02 Krystof: ITYM 'boutique institutions like ours' 08:27:55 seems like sbcl will be affected by this: http://timetobleed.com/mysql-doesnt-always-suck-this-time-its-amd/ 08:36:19 cracki [n=cracki@46-051.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:38:40 hyperbor1ean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 08:40:21 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:42:50 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:48:45 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:48:47 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["leaving"] 08:48:51 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:49:04 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 08:49:32 cmm, It's a huge, pre-orchestrated redistribution of wealth (withness the bailouts). How is it supposed to set anything straight? Especially when you remember that capital has no nationality, and the failure of the US as such means little to the real profiteers. 08:51:29 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:52:49 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@46-051.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:53:06 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 08:54:51 minion: chant 08:54:52 MORE CTHULHU 08:55:13 -!- adityo [n=adityo@59.183.19.44] has quit ["leaving"] 08:55:28 -!- cracki [n=cracki@46-051.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:56:50 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:01:12 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:03:46 mega1: (un)fortunately I don't have access to any machines of that family 09:03:58 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-4409990.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 09:04:57 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:06:50 disismt [n=disismt@124.124.233.29] has joined #lisp 09:09:55 Hi can anyone help me here? http://www.kimbly.com/code/invidx/lisp/invidx.cl In this program, in the function, test-index, there is a fucntion used called tests 09:10:10 'But its not working, ie tests is undefined 09:10:12 Krystof: I have access to a few from family 15, but none of those have model numbers between 32 and 63 09:10:26 not that it's a big deal, I guess. 09:10:32 How to make it woork 09:10:43 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:11:02 -!- hyperbor1ean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit ["leaving"] 09:11:20 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 09:13:07 disismt, seems like you need a package called click-check 09:13:35 wentbackward, I have loaded it 09:13:59 But no tests defined there 09:15:02 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 09:15:24 a-s` [n=user@85.9.55.98] has joined #lisp 09:16:49 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:17:38 without the implementation of tests, you're stuck. I'd email the author. A link to him is on that website. 09:18:18 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BFDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:12 -!- elderK [n=zk@122-57-254-27.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 09:25:35 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:27:33 Scheme treats [] as (), but cl uses [] for anything? I am asking this because I want to define read macros for []. 09:28:44 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 09:29:30 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:29:31 tomoyuki28jp, You're fine to do this. clsql does it for example. 09:29:46 wentbackward: oh really. thanks a lot for the info. 09:30:04 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 09:31:15 wentbackward: So the only demerit of defining read macros for [] is we will not be able to include [] in function name? Is is there any others? 09:31:39 <_3b> conflicts with other peoples reader macros is probably the biggest risk :) 09:31:41 clhs 2.1.4 09:31:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_ad.htm 09:32:06 _3b: oh yes. 09:32:16 stassats`: thanks 09:33:05 clsql has the facility to turn this on and off in areas of the source file. It's cool when loading the whole file but can trip you up when in Slime for example 09:33:23 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1CC75.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:34:11 segv [n=mb@p4FC1CC75.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:20 thanks for the info, guys. It helps me a lot. 09:34:22 and scheme doesn't trear [] as (), some implementations do 09:35:10 stassats`: I was thinking [] became standard in R6RS, but maybe I am wrong. 09:36:05 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-11317.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:36:37 "r6rs considered harmful" 09:36:59 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 09:37:14 By the way, is there a way to get memory usage of lisp image with profiler or something? I am mainly using SBCL now. Or getting it from process memory usage of OS is the best way? 09:37:27 I mean the size of memory usage. 09:37:34 clhs room 09:37:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_room.htm 09:37:35 md` [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 09:38:24 stassats`: thanks! You really know a lot about cl. I am impressed. 09:38:59 tombom [n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 09:39:45 *wentbackward* ponders who may hang out in #lisp 09:40:13 not me. I mean, lisp is dead. Why would I go there ? :) 09:45:58 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:47:02 Hi all, what is the function to merge two lists? 09:47:10 sorry I am a newbie 09:47:14 append 09:47:19 thanks 09:47:46 -!- wormilwork [n=Miranda@adsl-070-155-056-058.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:50:47 Does anyone know this one: I used to be able to run hunchentoot at the REPL and set it to break on errors so I could inspect what was happening. This feature seems to have dissappeared. Any ideas? 09:52:53 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483DE13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:49 schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a6e09e2f94a8494e] has joined #lisp 09:53:52 HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:54:01 wentbackward: you should set *break-on-signals* to the errors/signals you are interested in to force hunchentoot to break 09:54:19 clhs *break-on-signals* 09:54:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_break_.htm 09:56:24 -!- schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a6e09e2f94a8494e] has quit [Client Quit] 09:56:45 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:59:04 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-186.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:00:06 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:02:25 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6741.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:20 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:03:37 rstandy, great that works fine. Thankyou. 10:06:30 function with type checking is faster than defmethod? http://paste.lisp.org/display/78157 10:07:04 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:08:15 dkcl [n=david@202.67.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:08:39 -!- dkcl [n=david@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:11:15 tomo: That is not unreasonable. 10:12:33 Joreji [n=nah@46-021.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:12:35 tomo: Your function need not consider redefinition, nor many other issues that generics functions do. 10:13:01 tomo: If anything, that function is what a generic might ultimately, in the best case, boil down to, so you'd expect it to be faster. 10:15:15 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:15:32 Zhivago: I see. thanks for the info. 10:17:22 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:17:32 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 10:20:20 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:57 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A222.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:24:59 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 10:27:12 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:27:38 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 10:31:18 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6741.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:34:11 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:19 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:45:07 HET3 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:45:48 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 10:56:06 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1CC75.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:56:23 segv [n=mb@p4FC1CC75.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:39 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-82-81-239-4.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:56:47 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:58:10 cracki [n=cracki@46-051.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:59:12 -!- HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:00:42 -!- HET3 is now known as HET2 11:00:54 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:01:20 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:21 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:01:49 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 11:04:03 appletizer [i=user@82-32-124-44.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:07:15 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:07:51 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:11:34 guille_ [n=guille_@222.Red-83-34-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:49 hi 11:12:17 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:12:35 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:14:10 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:15 having a list like ((1 2) (3 4)), in a loop can you descompose it to two variables for each tuple? 11:15:27 (loop for (i j) in (list (list 1 2) (list 2 3)) do (print (list 'i i 'j j))) 11:15:29 (loop for (x y) in '((1 2) (3 4)) 11:15:29 collect (cons x y)) 11:16:10 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.157.39] has joined #lisp 11:16:23 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:14 guille_: that was for you ;) 11:21:00 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:21:52 hugod_ [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633728.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:21:52 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633728.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:22:05 dec142 [n=Declan@86-45-249-216-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:40 trebor_d`: thanks 11:24:44 -!- dec142 [n=Declan@86-45-249-216-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has left #lisp 11:25:15 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-124-44.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:28:54 hi anyone knows how to add an element to a list? 11:29:17 cons 11:29:24 (cons 1 '(2 3 4)) 11:30:51 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.157.39] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:31:33 I guess disismt is one of the "other people". 11:32:24 Trying to get in ... :) 11:33:05 It was just a joke and a reference to a rather old conversation in this channel. Don't sweat it. :-) 11:37:37 -!- sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:38:39 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4b74.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:40:00 -!- Ragnaroek [i=8f5df993@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-78aa0f267d280706] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 11:40:43 does exist an split function for strings? 11:40:59 minion: split-sequence 11:41:03 minion: split-sequence 11:41:04 split-sequence: SPLIT-SEQUENCE (formerly known as PARTITION) is a member of the Common Lisp Utilities family of programs, designed by community consensus. http://www.cliki.net/split-sequence 11:41:37 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:44:31 stassats: the sbcl console say there's not package named "SPLIT-SEQUENCE", should i load something? 11:45:05 yes, read the page above 11:45:12 MOP question before I dig myself in: is there an easy way to learn what keyword parameters correspond to given slots in a class? 11:45:50 I know accessors can't be introspected, as they're plain methods, but I believe keywords could be retrieved somehow, I just got rusty in my mop-fu 11:46:16 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:51:09 (mapcar 'mop:slot-definition-initargs (mop:class-direct-slots (find-class 'foo))) ? 11:51:47 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:52:04 or what do you mean by "keyword"? 11:53:11 stassats: yes, initargs, sorry 11:53:42 you can use ordinary symbols as initargs 11:53:45 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:46 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 11:53:47 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:53:58 Is there a function to convert universal time format like this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/78162 11:54:58 minion: local-time? 11:54:59 local-time: local-time is a development library for manipulating date and time information in a semi-standard manner. http://www.cliki.net/local-time 11:55:16 don't know, whether it has what you want 11:55:20 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:18 stassats: thanks 11:58:22 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:59:09 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:59:54 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:00:13 minion: paste 76900 12:00:14 Paste number 76900: "strftime" by vy in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/76900 12:00:38 tomoyuki28jp: that might help too 12:01:53 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:04 stassats: thanks a lot! 12:02:53 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6741.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:31 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:19 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 12:07:12 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:07:17 Good afternoon. 12:07:33 hi plage 12:08:21 Hi, how to use remove-duplicates for strings? 12:08:30 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:49 disismt: straightforward 12:08:52 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:09 (remove-duplicates "abcadd") 12:10:10 I want to do (remove-duplicates '#("a" "a" "b")) 12:10:24 but its not working 12:10:28 aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has joined #lisp 12:10:30 disismt: :test #'string= 12:10:40 thanks 12:12:36 LostMonarch [n=roby@host114-245-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:13:22 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:24 Liam2 [n=healy@129-2-175-69.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:17:31 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:33 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4b74.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:21:27 chris2_ [n=chris@p5B16A222.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:23:56 Hi all. (reduce #'adjoin '(......)) . I need to pass the :test #'string= parameter to adjoin function. How to do that? 12:24:10 clhs lambda 12:24:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_lambda.htm 12:24:46 (great bot) 12:24:47 thanks 12:24:59 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 12:26:02 Ragnaroek [i=8f5df993@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5b509baec36a5e3f] has joined #lisp 12:26:04 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 12:26:53 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:27:05 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:27:21 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:35 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:28:17 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BFDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:28:36 stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:38 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 12:29:31 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:31:20 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A222.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:32:52 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:20 -!- sellout is now known as Guest72666 12:34:05 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6C153.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:16 -!- a-s` [n=user@85.9.55.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:44:16 -!- a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:46:47 (defun add() (progn (+2 3)(+ 8 9))) . Hi all, me again, why is the statement not working? 12:47:18 why do you think it is not working? 12:48:27 Cant figure it out :( 12:48:36 disismt: (+2 should be (+ 2 12:48:41 (with a space) 12:48:53 ohho :P 12:48:55 thanks 12:49:57 disismt: while you are at it, put a space after `add' as well. And remove the progn. And then realize that the (+ 2 3) doesn't serve any purpose and remove it too. 12:50:00 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:50:28 plage, I was just testing progn :( 12:50:58 defun already has a progn 12:51:07 disismt: Usually, every expression in the body of a progn (except possibly the last) has side effects. 12:51:46 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:33 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:52:58 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:56 -!- guille_ [n=guille_@222.Red-83-34-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:58:22 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:04:32 emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:06:03 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:07:55 -!- emacsphan is now known as emacsphan_ 13:08:03 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.190.219] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:08:16 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.190.219] has joined #lisp 13:09:41 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:09:45 -!- emacsphan_ [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has left #lisp 13:10:17 you can use ordinary symbols as initargs <-- I know, although you rarely do 13:11:34 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6741.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:13:25 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:16:59 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:18:28 -!- free_thinker [n=willijar@eas-nw709pc01.aston.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:18:39 kloupi [n=user@salle207.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 13:19:16 -!- kloupi [n=user@salle207.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:20:57 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:19 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:23:20 dec142 [n=Declan@86-45-249-216-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:12 -!- Liam2 [n=healy@129-2-175-69.wireless.umd.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:25:44 emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:27:02 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 13:27:55 Could someone please answer this newbie's question? In Practical CL it says, "Common Lisp defines EQL to behave like EQ except that it also is guaranteed to consider two objects of the same class representing the same numeric or character value to be equivalent." Then why does (eql "t" "t") evaluate to NIL? 13:28:17 <_3b> "t" isn't a character 13:28:22 <_3b> it is a string 13:28:32 <_3b> try (eql #\t #\t) 13:28:57 _3b: ok one sec :) 13:29:45 -!- cracki [n=cracki@46-051.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 13:30:00 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:01 _3b: I see thank you. So the #\ is the notation to represent a single character? 13:30:11 <_3b> right 13:30:17 _3b: thank you very much 13:31:02 I guess it would be safe to say that EQL should NOT be used to compare strings then 13:31:17 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:31:18 <_3b> depends on what you are trying to compare 13:31:28 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6741.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:46 <_3b> if you want to know if they are the same string, as in occupy the same space, eql would be useful 13:32:01 <_3b> if you want to knwo if they have the same contents, use equal or string= 13:32:23 <_3b> if you want to compare contents ignoring case, use equalp or string-equal 13:33:14 so in the case of (eql "t" "t") the two "t"'s occupy different space in memory? 13:33:28 <_3b> right 13:35:17 so then in the case of (eql #\t #\t) do the two "#\t"'s occupt the same space in memory or is this not a consideration when one is using eql to compare characters? 13:36:22 <_3b> that is the difference between eq and eql... eql specifically checks for characters and numbers and compares by value 13:37:29 this is confusing, but very educational, thanks again for your help 13:37:48 clhs equal 13:37:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_equal.htm 13:38:54 dlowe: thanks for that. It's great that there are so many CL resources on the web. 13:40:37 -!- jocke [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:40:58 jocke__ [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has joined #lisp 13:41:38 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-179-109.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:42:35 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-129-205.vologda.ru] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:44:39 davazp [n=user@79.153.148.56] has joined #lisp 13:47:19 ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@88-108-126-11.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:57 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-135-5.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:48:25 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6741.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:48:57 -!- chris2_ is now known as chris2 13:51:51 Rock out with your REPL out and hack to the ends of time and space! 13:52:47 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:53:47 -!- gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-179-109.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:56:18 hyperbor1ean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 13:56:35 -!- dec142 [n=Declan@86-45-249-216-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has left #lisp 13:56:37 -!- hyperbor1ean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Client Quit] 13:56:58 -!- disismt [n=disismt@124.124.233.29] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:57:32 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C2E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:36 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:36 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:04 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1CC75.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:58:11 disismt [n=disismt@124.124.233.29] has joined #lisp 13:58:20 segv [n=mb@p4FC1C4CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:22 *mega1* squashes the last bug in the test suit on the x86-calling-convention branch 13:58:25 Hi why doesn't this work? (loop for e in '(2 4) (+ x e)) 13:58:26 http://quotenil.com/git/?p=sbcl.git;a=shortlog;h=x86-calling-convention 13:58:41 disismt: add DO just before your addition 13:59:20 wchogg [n=wchogg@216.165.144.151] has joined #lisp 13:59:20 disismt: or collect 13:59:36 disismt: do won't actually do anything useful 13:59:42 dkcl [n=user@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 13:59:45 thanks dlowe 14:00:57 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:01:57 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:03:32 Is there an official SBCL logo I can use to add credits to my website? 14:03:48 -!- dkcl [n=user@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:04:21 Isn't it the four colours thing? 14:04:30 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250038.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:04:54 <_3b> http://www.sbcl.org/sbclbutton.png ? 14:05:18 nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:44 Ah, I was hoping for one slightly bigger! 14:05:55 what are these colors representing? 14:06:02 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:06:19 the status colors on the compatibility grid, looks like 14:06:44 yeah, just noticed too 14:07:09 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:43 c|mell [n=cmell@x250063.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:07:53 -!- Joreji [n=nah@46-021.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:08:03 The green is money, the silver is steel, the red is all the compiler warnings, and the yellow shows I'm taking the ... 14:08:05 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:08:07 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:09:09 -!- frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.129.3] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:09:52 cowards way? brick road? sunshine from the world? 14:10:16 splittist: Even so, good explanation :) 14:10:17 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 14:10:36 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:10:38 Joreji [n=nah@46-021.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:10:48 dlowe: think bodily fluids 14:11:59 yellow bile? Ah, you're being choleric on #lisp 14:12:00 is the trend to always (or frequently) write a documentation string in funcion definitions or do people typically not bother to do this? 14:12:02 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BFDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:35 emacsphan: you should write a documentation string in functions and not let the laziness of others dissuade you 14:12:46 haha well said 14:12:47 WTF? 14:12:49 -!- Guest72666 is now known as sellout 14:12:53 dlowe: hahaha, great! 14:13:34 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BFDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:13:51 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BFDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:41 dkcl [n=dkcl@202.67.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:14:51 while we are talking about sbcl, can someone explain to me what the steel bank stands for, where it comes from? (a google search for steel banks is heavily biased towards sbcl) 14:15:28 fiveop: there's an explanation in the man page 14:16:02 <_3b> http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/history.html 14:16:09 oh :) 14:16:22 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C2E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:16:25 thanks 14:16:27 joga_ [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 14:16:40 "SBCL is derived from the CMU CL. (The name is intended to acknowledge the connection: steel and banking are the industries where Carnegie and Mellon made the big bucks.)" 14:16:40 -!- Joreji [n=nah@46-021.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:17:34 Although today it may be more appropriate to associate banks with steal. 14:17:43 lol 14:18:36 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:18:38 -!- joga_ is now known as joga 14:19:14 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19:16 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@student166-15.hampshire.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:20:39 *splittist* looks forward to LOLCats Motivator Common Lisp 14:20:41 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:10 jfactor [n=jfactor@student166-15.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 14:25:44 Joreji [n=nah@46-021.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:28:23 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:33:16 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 14:33:46 -!- ASau [n=user@host176-231-msk.microtest.ru] has left #lisp 14:34:35 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:37:30 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:38:11 What is the easiest way to eval a lisp expression in bash? I can't seem to figure out the ECL syntax. It says `ecl -eval [form]', but, I don't...know how to correctly eval, say, `(+ 1 1)'. Any hints? 14:39:45 huh? 14:40:18 Quadrescence: ecl -eval '(+ 1 1)' 14:40:39 Quadrescence, do you want "2" printed on the screen? 14:40:46 tic: Yes. 14:41:05 (preferably without a repl to follow; it need not be ecl) 14:42:17 sbcl --eval '(format t "~A" (+ 1 1)) (quit)' 14:42:55 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.161.174.149] has joined #lisp 14:43:54 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:44:08 tic: Any way to inhibit the startup message, or is it time to go rtfm? 14:44:16 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:44:27 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:44:55 jlf` [n=user@98.97.244.6] has joined #lisp 14:45:04 Quadrescence: --noinform? 14:48:02 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@student166-15.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:48:09 The-Kenny: Yes. Thank you. 14:48:12 -!- Joreji [n=nah@46-021.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:49:24 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:49:40 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:18 Joreji [n=nah@46-021.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:56:20 kuhzoo1 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:05 jfactor [n=jfactor@student166-17.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 14:57:40 -!- md` [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:58:55 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 14:59:47 free_thinker [n=willijar@eas-nw709pc01.aston.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:00:03 -!- HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:00:28 HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 15:00:41 -!- Ragnaroek [i=8f5df993@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5b509baec36a5e3f] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 15:01:37 KingNato [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:25 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:36 addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 15:05:07 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-82-81-239-4.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:40 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:08:24 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-221-164.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:08:50 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl200.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 15:10:23 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:12:51 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 15:13:23 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 15:14:16 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6741.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:41 guille_ [n=guille_@161.Red-79-154-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:06 -!- disismt [n=disismt@124.124.233.29] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:15:16 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:15:30 disismt [n=disismt@124.124.233.29] has joined #lisp 15:16:13 kuhzoo2 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:28 -!- guille_ [n=guille_@161.Red-79-154-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:18:15 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:22:12 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:22:41 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:23:19 joga [i=joga@83.150.90.112] has joined #lisp 15:24:45 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 15:26:36 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:42 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:27:47 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-28-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:29:16 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 15:29:43 -!- kuhzoo1 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:30:05 willb [n=wibenton@wireless62.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:33:38 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:38:18 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:40:33 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 15:41:04 ImTryingAtLeast [n=ImTrying@salle208.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 15:43:08 <_8david> rsynnott: if you're around, it would be nice if you could tell me a little more about how you compiled smoke on windows 15:43:45 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:43:51 Hello, I would like to redefine a class, in another file, but i get some errors concerning the mixin class, I don't knwo what should i do, can you help me? (here the Error : The class named XXX-MIXIN is a forward referenced class. The class named XXX-MIXIN is a direct superclass of the class named YYY.) 15:44:28 md` [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 15:44:53 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@student166-17.hampshire.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:46:15 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:03 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6741.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:48:05 Hi guys, I am trying to debug our SBCL game server not correctly freeing memory. We have a specific structure objects allocated and they are not freed even with (sb-ext:gc :full t) until some threads are terminated. How/why is freeing of some objects dependent on what threads are running? We are quite sure the threads don't have to any reference keeping the objects from being collected. 15:49:00 the gc is conservative, so there might be a stale reference to the objects on the stack 15:49:02 The GC is conservative with the stack (and registers) on x86 and x86-64. There might be something that looks like a reference on the stack. 15:49:21 Some way how to trace it down? 15:49:23 how many instances are we talking about? 15:49:37 10 games - means 61000 instances 15:49:41 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 15:49:48 they are in 2d array 15:50:27 the more games are played, more and more instances are kept in memory and the performance slowly degrades 15:50:30 and they all stay uncollected? 15:50:38 yes 15:50:44 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 15:50:49 until I quit the threads which compute the games 15:51:10 md`: is it multiple threads operating on one array? 15:51:11 but the previously finished games are not stored anywhere else 15:51:19 dlowe: no 15:51:30 guille_ [n=user@161.Red-79-154-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:30 is the only reference to the games you keep that central array? 15:51:31 we have thread per cpu 15:51:50 yes, but that array is per thread 15:52:07 we don't have some central storage protected by mutex 15:52:15 ok, then this doesn't really make a lot of sense 15:53:04 is it possible, that a wrongly placed dynamic-extent on local function might cause this problems? 15:53:32 -!- jlf` [n=user@98.97.244.6] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:53:38 if you're creating unbounded amounts of bogus references you must either be growing the stack, or there must be some bogus reference on the stack to some heap object that keeps gathering more and more of those objects 15:53:56 the former would be obvious to you 15:54:38 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-249.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:54:41 the canonical example of the latter is having a queue implemented using cons cells, where you pop from the queue by (setf queue (cdr queue)) 15:54:43 yes, the stack keeps constant size. after couple of hours we lose with heap-exhausted 15:55:41 if any of the cons cells you've advanced the queue past is kept alive by the conservativeness, all subsequent cells will be kept alive too 15:56:28 ok. we have something like this: (setf (entries-of x) (delete-if #'sched-entry-finished-p (entries-of x))) 15:56:33 but if you really are only keeping references to these structures in your one large array, and not for example cross-linking the structures, that explanation doesn't sound horribly plausible 15:56:52 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:57:04 jsnell: we have a cons cell based queue 15:57:22 and it's updated like I posted 15:57:30 entries is our queue 15:57:51 games are removed from queue when #'sched-entry-finished-p returns true 15:58:10 could that approach cause that latter case you wrote? 15:58:49 probably not, since that's not exactly a queue 15:58:54 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 15:59:27 (using delete should cause the long cons chains to get broken at some point) 15:59:47 but it could be worth testing 16:00:11 so remove is safer here definitely? 16:00:16 md`: not a single one is collected? 16:00:37 replace that with something like (let ((new (remove-if ...))) (fill nil (entries-of x)) (setf (entries-of x) new))) 16:00:40 mega1: no, they all keep in memory 16:00:59 md`: always, for all threads? 16:01:47 mega1: well, I am not exactly sure here whether always. But in the time window I was testing that - yes. 16:01:48 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:01:50 have any of you looked at the eternityII puzzle? 16:02:17 hmm... that sounds too deterministic for conservativeness to be the problem 16:02:22 was it attila_lendvai who had a heap walker to help pinpoint the cause of such problems? 16:02:46 You may have real references you forgot about. 16:02:50 pkhuong: i do have some stuff, not too well-packaged, though 16:02:51 madnificent: around? 16:02:57 md`: I'd put a finalizer on each instance that prints a note to make sure that they are alway kept. 16:03:13 mega1: good idea, will try that 16:03:30 then as the others suggest, it's likely a leak in your app 16:04:04 guille_ pasted "question" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78180 16:04:06 md`: see http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi/darcsweb.cgi?r=cl-dwim-cl-dwim;a=headblob;f=/util/path-to-root.lisp 16:04:14 Still nobody to help me with my problem :/ ? 16:04:26 what problem? 16:04:42 Hello, I would like to redefine a class, in another file, but i get some errors concerning the mixin class, I don't knwo what should i do, can you help me? (here the Error : The class named XXX-MIXIN is a forward referenced class. The class named XXX-MIXIN is a direct superclass of the class named YYY.) that one (A beginner one :/) 16:04:45 attila_lendvai: thanks, will check that 16:04:52 md`: in the first phase it disables gc and builds up a hashtable from the entire heap, then you can query that 16:05:39 attila_lendvai: is there a way to walk up thru referres to the top object keeping the reference? 16:06:17 yes 16:06:52 i have that paste, i can't do an assignment to a hash table when using a string as key. any hint? 16:06:53 yes, I see path-to-root 16:07:05 thanks a lot guys 16:07:09 see ya 16:07:12 -!- md` [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has left #lisp 16:07:29 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@151.205.120.145] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:09:47 rleudeba [n=user@salle208.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 16:10:29 Well i think i'll try again later 16:11:12 -!- ImTryingAtLeast [n=ImTrying@salle208.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit ["http://irc2go.com/"] 16:12:00 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 16:12:14 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@charanda.shochu.sandino.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:40 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@154-6.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["night y'all"] 16:16:28 -!- rleudeba [n=user@salle208.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:16:38 rleudeba [n=user@salle208.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 16:16:57 -!- rleudeba [n=user@salle208.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:18:44 -!- creddy [n=expressi@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:24:47 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:25:28 newlisper [n=wschroed@128.252.233.244] has joined #lisp 16:25:57 creddy [n=probabil@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:26:39 joga_ [i=joga@83.150.90.112] has joined #lisp 16:26:41 -!- joga [i=joga@83.150.90.112] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:30:49 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-205-118-127.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:48 _8david: I failed to do so :) 16:32:16 this got me most of the way: http://imaginary-project.net/wiki/building_qyoto_for_windows 16:32:23 -!- _8david [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:32:35 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-15-207.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:32:40 Good evening. 16:32:51 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:33:04 Greetings! 16:33:39 In your lisp source files, do you preserve tabs or convert them to spaces? 16:34:24 spaces! 16:34:53 I'm encountering a situation where it would work better if the tabs were converted to spaces. 16:35:06 I emit spaces, but don't convert them it they're already there (so as to not make huge swathes of whitespace-only changes on files under version control) 16:35:39 (which is unfortunate, since my emacs was, er.. misconfigured to emit tabs for several years) 16:35:43 tmh: I tell my students to run their code through `expand' before emailing it to me. 16:35:49 drewc: am now 16:36:30 tmh: ...because indentation gets messed up when I quote their code in a reply. 16:36:36 when I copy code, the first thing I do is to prettify it: replace tabs, remove spurious spaces, add a proper header to each file, ... 16:36:58 hefner: Definitely, I hate getting a diff that is all whitespaces. I'm not going to go through and convert the tabs, I'll just convert them as things change. But, I'm going to configure emacs to use spaces instead of tabs. 16:37:46 beach: I'm using literate programming for a project as a test case of literate programming and am running into problems with tabs versus spaces. 16:37:50 -!- kuhzoo2 is now known as kuhzoo 16:38:24 madnificent: i'm going to give a tutorial/lecture on LOL+ROFL (with an ROFL focus) in #tech.coop in a half hour or so, if you're interested. 16:38:53 fe[nl]ix: I think I'll use spaces, but I want to avoid whitespace diffs, so no search replace, I'll just fix them as I go. 16:38:59 Thanks for the feedback. 16:39:11 drewc: I'd have loved to, but half an hour is a bit of a problem. I'm team-coding for 3 hours or something like that 16:39:27 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-87d2314b0e2bfe2a] has joined #lisp 16:39:43 drewc: I'll log the channel in any case, as it may help me to get ROFL running smoothly 16:40:27 madnificent: make sure you log it! 16:41:10 I hope drewc can find a productive application of "OMG" to name his next product 16:43:18 hefner: i did have a 'Working Test Framework' at one point 16:43:49 excellent! 16:44:13 LOLCAT, perhaps? 16:45:00 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:45:37 -!- joga_ [i=joga@83.150.90.112] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:15 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250063.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:18 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 16:48:20 c|mell [n=cmell@nttkyo036048.tkyo.nt.ngn.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:49:36 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:49:37 tmh: maybe you can explain to me what it is that you like about literate programming, then? 16:50:18 plotnick [n=user@96.237.136.127] has joined #lisp 16:51:45 tmh: You might actually have to start with what your definition of `literate programming' is. 16:51:52 beach: I'm not convinced I like it, I'm just giving it an evaluation. :-) 16:51:59 joga [i=joga@83.150.90.112] has joined #lisp 16:52:00 ah, OK. 16:53:23 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:50 beach: I don't have a definition, I'm using NOWEB, which is a pretty basic tool. What I like so far is (1) I have documentation for my code and (2) the process of documenting the code also facilitates thinking about the code. 16:54:19 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:54:33 I am asking because it seems kind of the opposite of `agile methods', so at least one of them must have something wrong. 16:55:10 -!- emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:56:55 beach: I also see the potential to use literate programming to isolate repeated code chunks, provide a discussion for the chunk and why it is repeated. But this is a double edged sword, because it overlaps to an extent with putting the chunks in functions. You could get into a position where seeing the relation between the literate source and the actual code is difficult. 16:57:17 -!- sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:57:39 tmh: there's also the alternative: DRY. 16:57:58 *tmh* doesn't know what DRY stands for. 16:58:22 minion: what does DRY stand for? 16:58:23 Detax Rheadine Yerba 16:58:40 Don't Repeat Yourself? 16:58:52 minion: you are wrong! 16:58:54 what's up? 16:59:33 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:00:16 -!- joga [i=joga@83.150.90.112] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:00:28 tmh: Yes, I can see that value of that particular aspect of literate programming, provided you have a particularly bad programming language, like Pascal. 17:00:37 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:53 literate programming is fun, even/especially with a particularly good programming language 17:02:47 beach: Probably the biggest motivation for literate programming in my case is that I have some mathematics I want to document, so it's nice to have the code coupled with the discussion and produce nice equations. 17:02:52 housel: I am willing to believe that, but I wasn't actually thinking of the "fun" aspects, but more about maintainability and such. 17:03:18 tmh: I can see that, yes. 17:03:29 joga [i=joga@83.150.90.112] has joined #lisp 17:03:57 beach: I'm not pleased, nor surprised, by the tools for literate programming, they are poor. What would really facilitate it is an editor that would parse the literate source as you go and present the language source in a parallel buffer. 17:04:04 tmh: so you are saying, the important part is that the comments be processed through TeX. 17:04:34 Quadrescence pasted "eval a lisp expression in bash" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78182 17:04:47 tmh: do you use leo? 17:05:05 tmh: obviously not actually... 17:05:27 tmh: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html 17:05:47 leo is to literate programming as the WWW is to the printing press. 17:06:06 sundar [i=IceChat7@59.92.127.8] has joined #lisp 17:06:07 beach: Having comments processed with TeX isn't sufficient because the comments because I still like to be able to look at the code without wading through comments. 17:06:29 drewc: Thanks for the link, I wasn't aware of that, I've been using emacs and a noweb-mode. 17:06:57 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has left #lisp 17:07:03 Hi.. I'm a newbie to lisp. I have a list '(1 2 3 2 1), and I'd like to form '(1 2 4 2 1), what is the best way to go about it? 17:07:20 Do you just want to replace the third element? 17:07:28 I want to increment it. 17:08:05 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:08:09 Is it stored in a variable intended to be incremented in-place, or is it an expression, and you want the outputted expression to have the change? 17:08:51 beach: I guess the important part is good documentation that corresponds to the source code. I know it's simply a matter of discipline, but literate programming seems to facilitate it. 17:09:22 newlisper: I don't exactly understand your question, but the list is a return value from another function, and I want a new list with the mid value incremented 17:09:41 newlisper: in-place is neither a requirement nor a problem for me. 17:10:24 sundar: All right. If it was in-place, I thought of INCF. I'm going to message you a list of functions to take a look at. 17:10:35 (defun sundar-list (list) (list (first list) (second list) (1+ (third list)) (fourth list) (fifth list))) 17:10:37 sundar: Well, the way you phrased your question might make it a problem, because a quoted list is literal data, and you don't have the right to modify it. 17:11:09 drewc: is there any advantage to Leo 4.6-beta, or should I go with 4.5.1-final? 17:11:10 beach: Oh. I'm sorry, I didn't know the nuances. 17:11:33 pitui` [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:36 tmh: i'm using 4.6 beta.. does 4.5.1 have @shadow trees? 17:11:44 if not, you want them, and go 4.6 17:11:51 actually .. go 4.6 17:11:52 For now I came up with a way involving setf et al., will paste in a pastebin and provide a link 17:11:53 drewc: I don't know, I'll just get 4.6 17:12:11 sundar: did you see the code i just wrote? 17:12:30 sundar: (incf (third list)) if you want it destructive. 17:12:38 sundar: it technically meets your spec, though it is not at all generalized 17:12:48 @drewc and beach: But the problem is that I don't know the length of the list 17:12:48 (let ((list (copy-list '(1 2 3 2 1)))) (incf (caddr list)) list) works too 17:12:53 I mean it is not fixed.. 17:13:15 sundar: but you always want to increment the third element? 17:13:26 No, the middle element.. 17:13:33 what if the list is an even number of elements? 17:13:35 how do you define middle? 17:13:43 sundar: you didn't say that initially 17:14:00 sundar: half the problem in programming is stating what it is you want. 17:14:04 The list will have an odd number of elements, and middle will be (n+1)/2th element. 17:14:15 sundar: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/they-called-it-lisp-for-a-reason-list-processing.html 17:14:18 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 17:14:19 sundar: if you can't explain it to a room of humans, you will never explain it to a machine. 17:14:29 " newlisper: I don't exactlyunderstand your question, but the list is a returnvalue from another function, and I want a new list with the mid value incremented" From my old message 17:14:59 sundar: you want LENGTH, NTHCDR, INCF and COPY-LIST 17:15:26 I messaged sundar a list of functions similar to drewc's and also recommended Burgemeister's Quick Reference to find related functions. 17:15:40 there's another solution with APPEND, SUBSEQ, LIST, and 1+ 17:16:03 newlisper: why would you message them? this is a public channel, nd the help you give him might help others... 17:16:12 and with a nick like newlisper, you could be wrong! 17:16:32 s 17:16:36 oops 17:16:56 drewc: Just didn't want to be too spammy. :) Also, I didn't want to get involved on the "put down the newbie by telling him he speaks badly" thread. 17:17:01 especially if the emphasis is on the first two syllables ;) 17:18:01 newlisper: there is no way that helping someone by answering their questions in a channel intended for such tasks is spam.. i do not think it means what you think it means. 17:18:23 drewc: Noted for next time. It'll avoid this side conversation. 17:18:58 newlisper: conversations about what is on topic are also on-topic. 17:19:01 :D 17:19:10 drewc: by executive fiat? 17:19:11 ;) 17:19:21 careful, danger of recursion 17:19:36 shouldn't be a problem as long as there's a terminating clause 17:19:46 and godwin's law takes care of that 17:19:54 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o drewc 17:20:04 You know who else had a terminating clause? (invoking Godwin now) 17:20:38 that's cheating 17:20:42 *beach* vanishes 17:20:44 *drewc* is not speaking ex cathedra, better remove my pointy hat 17:20:55 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-9-18.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 17:21:05 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:21:18 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:38 -!- joga [i=joga@83.150.90.112] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:21:47 chickamade [n=aht@123.16.79.47] has joined #lisp 17:23:08 sundar pasted "incrementing middle element (with what I know, would be ugly)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78183 17:23:12 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:24:00 sundar: your SETQ is not valid common lisp .. setq does not create varibles, it binds them. 17:24:12 does it? 17:24:17 drewc: I must do a defvar before it? 17:24:32 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:24:34 drewc: or a defparameter? I always forget which is the right one... 17:24:36 sundar: your strategy won't work either, you'll have to copy the list to make sure you don't accidentally modify a literal list 17:24:39 sundar: use LET 17:24:41 sundar: I think what you want is a let 17:24:44 sundar: in this case, no.. you don't want a global special variable for this 17:25:32 Ok, in case I use a LET, can I use it as the place for the setf too? 17:26:02 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.20.158] has joined #lisp 17:26:14 sundar: no, let binds variables, SETF sets places. 17:26:41 sundar: (NTH ...) is a place, but it is not a variable. 17:27:36 *drewc* realizes the distinction and jargon mean little to you, but they will and are important. 17:28:27 drewc: Ok, I understand, it's like the difference between lvalue and rvalue right? 17:29:27 sundar: not _quite_. What book are you learning lisp from? 17:30:09 drewc: you gonna have the LOL+ROFL lecture or not? I joined #tech.coop, but still nothing... 17:30:16 -!- HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:30:35 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:30:37 stepnem: ha, yeah.. 10 minutes 17:30:45 ok 17:30:50 drewc: A gentle introduction to symbolic computation.. 17:31:02 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:31:13 sundar: good! that's what i was going to suggest :) 17:31:46 drewc: :) Thanks.. I found that to be most appealing to my mindset.. 17:31:52 sundar: the real difference is that LET is LAMBDA, while SETF is SETQ in the end. 17:32:15 sundar: for now, just remember that to SET(f or q) something, tht something must exist 17:32:40 sundar: and LET creates things that can be SETQ'd 17:33:20 anyways, it seem i have some demand for this lecture.. off to #tech.coop for those interested. 17:33:49 drewc: Thanks a lot... And I'm just being impatient, I've not reached much in the book, but trying to solve an SPOJ problem with Lisp. 17:34:19 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-131-221.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:34:42 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-28-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:34:46 sundar: in that case, finish the book! :) 17:35:07 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 17:36:57 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 17:37:09 joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 17:38:34 manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:22 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.161.174.149] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:39:35 -!- chickamade [n=aht@123.16.79.47] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:39:48 chickamade [n=aht@123.16.79.47] has joined #lisp 17:41:28 -!- decaf [n=mkose@81.215.202.193] has left #lisp 17:41:42 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:44:18 -!- dialtone1 [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:45:24 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:34 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslq159.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:47:19 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-6-144.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 17:48:11 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:33 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:50:58 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:50:58 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-87d2314b0e2bfe2a] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:51:24 DesesperatedBoy [n=user@ip-221.net-89-2-129.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:51:47 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-1988d0b801d36025] has joined #lisp 17:52:11 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:52:44 rsynnott: okay, I'll try that tomorrow. Just to confirm: 17:53:04 Did you install KDE itself? Do you remember which version that was? 17:53:09 Which version of cmake did you use? 17:53:53 Hello, I got a problem which is probably a beginner one. I want to redefine a class. But this class inherits from mixin classes, and i got this error : The class named XXXX-MIXIN is a forward referenced class. 17:53:53 The class named XXXX-MIXIN is a direct superclass of the class named YYYY. 17:53:54 In the windowsbuild.sh for qyoto, I don't see a -G option for cmake. Does that mean that you used Visual C++ rather than MSYS make or MinGW make? 17:54:09 Finally, which version of perl did you use? 17:55:35 (Well, nevermind the last one. Since the generated files are just copied over from Linux, the version of Perl shouldn't matter.) 18:00:42 DesesperatedBoy: What is the real name of XXXX-MIXIN? 18:00:51 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 18:00:55 (and YYYY)? 18:02:19 aht [n=aht@123.16.79.47] has joined #lisp 18:02:27 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 18:02:52 -!- chickamade [n=aht@123.16.79.47] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:02:57 DesesperatedBoy: My guess would be that your current package is wrong when you are redefining YYYY, so that you are actually probably both defining a new YYYY class in a different package, and not referring to XXXX-MIXIN which is also in a different package, but I am just guessing of course. 18:04:37 -!- disismt [n=disismt@124.124.233.29] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:05:00 disismt [n=disismt@124.124.233.29] has joined #lisp 18:07:25 -!- tombom [n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 18:08:40 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-82-81-239-4.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:09:05 DesesperatedBoy: Do you see what I mean? 18:09:44 Ragnaroek [i=54a6454f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e1e12a6a4aba3f75] has joined #lisp 18:11:02 nostoi [n=nostoi@77.Red-83-37-1.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:44 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-210-230.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:12:30 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@77.Red-83-37-1.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:14:08 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.20.158] has left #lisp 18:16:53 My apologize beach, was eating 18:17:20 Of course you were. It is 20:00. Every French person I know would eat then :) 18:18:02 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 18:19:52 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 18:20:51 Ow, It seems you were right :/ 18:21:02 Good to know :) 18:21:03 HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 18:21:29 Shame on me, moreover i think you're my teacher 18:21:38 I am guessing that as well. 18:22:02 No need to be ashamed though. 18:22:40 Thanks a lot for the help 18:23:03 That's what I'm paid for :) 18:23:17 Right ^^ 18:23:37 (though perhaps not 24h a day) 18:25:13 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:32 We Lispers work hard and play hard, or how it goes. 18:26:12 tic: and I think we are pretty demanding too, which is fair. 18:27:31 chickamade [n=aht@123.16.79.47] has joined #lisp 18:27:43 -!- aht [n=aht@123.16.79.47] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:28:04 lichtblau: nope, I didn't install KDE 18:28:22 (the windows KDE dist doesn't include kdebindings anyway) 18:28:36 the cmake I used was just whatever the current release on the website is 18:28:48 I don't have the machine I tried on handy at the moment, I'm afraid 18:29:22 lichtblau: I used mingw gcc 18:29:37 I think the patch that that qyoto guy supplies may modifiy that file 18:30:07 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:25 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:31:02 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:04 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:34:36 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:41:27 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.157.39] has quit ["GoDaddy's claim isn't just based on comparing apples to oranges; it's multiplying oranges by apples, dividing by peach and"] 18:42:01 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 18:43:20 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslq159.osnanet.de] has quit ["http://github.com/bakkdoor/rswing/"] 18:44:24 rsynnott: thanks. 18:44:24 I'll bother you again after trying tomorrow. :-) 18:45:01 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:46:53 -!- DesesperatedBoy [n=user@ip-221.net-89-2-129.rev.numericable.fr] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:47:12 aggieben [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:23 DesesperatedBoy [n=user@ip-221.net-89-2-129.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:49:01 beach , i almost forgot, is it normal that the batch-in-program-p function is missing? 18:49:23 DesesperatedBoy: er, I don't remember that one. Hold on... 18:50:29 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:50:30 Seems "normal", yes, in that I guess I never wrote it. Feel free to do so! 18:51:04 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:51:22 Ok, Thanks. Another (little i must admit) "extension" ^^ 18:51:45 Sounds like a good one to me. 18:53:06 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:54:57 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-249.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 18:56:01 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:56:04 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-38-156.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:56:10 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:17 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-38-156.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:06 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:12 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:00:33 aht [n=aht@123.16.79.47] has joined #lisp 19:00:36 -!- chickamade [n=aht@123.16.79.47] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:04:31 valvola [n=fabiovio@host159-255-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:04:35 -!- sundar [i=IceChat7@59.92.127.8] has left #lisp 19:05:08 -!- valvola [n=fabiovio@host159-255-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:05:22 a-s [n=user@92.80.94.146] has joined #lisp 19:07:36 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:05 what does it mean if basic-combination-derived-type is #? 19:11:02 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 19:11:38 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 19:11:46 returns anything... I think it's different from T because we don't know how many values it returns. 19:12:06 aha, equivalent to (values) 19:12:38 but not of type of values-type 19:15:52 hm. Why are our fasl files full of QN^HABSOLUTER and QN^HRELATIVER? 19:17:36 (the simple answer is "because they're the kinds of fixup that you get", and that is correct as far as it goes. But there are _zillions_ of them. Why are they not saved in the table and reused? 19:20:40 -!- davazp [n=user@79.153.148.56] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:21:12 and #? never returns? 19:21:19 mega1: yup. 19:23:09 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6454f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e1e12a6a4aba3f75] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 19:23:42 Ragnaroek [i=54a6454f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b10f9534e8a9f957] has joined #lisp 19:28:07 I've just realized that sbcl can be fooled into all kinds of nastiness even without function declarations by redefining a function with which another was other functions were compiled in the same file. 19:29:26 yup, standard compliant behaviour too. 19:32:10 (let ((*cold-load-dump* t)) 19:32:10 (dump-object kind fasl-output)) 19:32:19 is there a helpful explanatory comment? There is not. 19:33:34 I appreciate that it's allowed, especially with the kind of optimization I'm implementing. Still it makes it disturbingly easy to corrupt the image during interactive development. 19:33:37 oh well, it's been like that in cmucl since 1992 19:34:21 email Rob MacLachlan 19:36:43 I could just try flipping the boolean and seeing what breaks 19:37:28 Which reminds me, the WARNING for impossible casts (the intersection of the input and output types is empty) is lossy, since it assumes that the cast will always be executed. Should probably be downgraded to a style warning. 19:38:01 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:15 beach, yes, it probably is. 19:38:57 pkhuong: I'd prefer to keep it a warning unless the cast comes from a branch in some compiler expansion 19:39:01 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C2E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:05 that might be trickier to achieve 19:39:08 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-38-156.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:39:19 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-38-156.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:47 Hello, does anyone here have any connection to the cl-opengl library and newsgroup? 19:39:48 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C2E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:44:45 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:43 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:47:43 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:50:16 -!- guille_ [n=user@161.Red-79-154-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:50:47 I think I would rather spend time on #lisp advising students about programming, than doing all this admin crap that seem to take up an ever increasing part of my life :) 19:51:08 Or should I have used :( there, perhaps? 19:51:19 beach, I hear you. Administrative crap truly is mind numbing. 19:51:30 (even though I'm nowhere near your level of administration) 19:51:44 sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDA861C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:47 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:50 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:52:01 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 19:52:24 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-20-101.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:52:29 tic: Yeah, told Irčne, my colleage, the other day, and we agree that it makes you simultaneously overworked and bored. Pretty weird state of mind, actually. 19:54:18 beach, *nod* 19:54:39 Alas, there is no free lunch, it seems! Maybe if you go start your own thing. But you'll have other problems. :-) 19:56:13 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:17 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.161.174.149] has joined #lisp 19:57:01 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:59:11 tic: Sure, and this is why I am not complaining *too* much. 19:59:38 beach, :-)) 20:02:03 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:52 quamaretto [n=millij@70.228.181.124] has joined #lisp 20:05:41 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 20:06:44 Crap, no matter how hard I try, after a very long day of work, I have more unprocessed messages than at the beginning of that day. 20:06:57 Ok, then does anyone know about the common-lisp.net newsgroups? 20:08:09 beach, you need better filtering. first: everything not adressed directly to you goes elsewhere. that should rid you of some? 20:08:22 WarWeasle: they are in fact nntp gateways of mailing lists 20:08:31 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:49 hold on. crying baby. :) 20:09:59 tic: not always an option in academia. 20:10:28 pkhuong, how does that differ in academia compared to the Real World? 20:11:32 it's not because something isn't directly adressed to you that it's directly adressed to anyone. 20:12:14 Krystof: I'm building an app with cl-opengl, but if it is going away then I need to find something else. 20:12:49 that's nice 20:13:07 if I knew anything about cl-opengl I'd have answered your question about cl-opengl 20:13:36 tic: I think I have already applied the obvious stuff. But don't worry about it. I'll make it. It's just that we (the department) won't be working at the level of ambition that I had hoped. 20:13:38 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 20:13:59 beach, you can't be everything to anyone? 20:14:10 one of the ironies of academia is the more successful a department, the less time the employed academics have to do stuff they like 20:14:11 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 20:14:15 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:14:28 Krystof: Ok. Thank you anyway. 20:14:46 Krystof: sounds about right! 20:14:57 because success is measured in income, which is used to hire postdocs and fund PhD students, who do the research and write the papers (with their supervisor's name on!), which can then be cited in requests for more research income 20:15:00 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host114-245-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 20:15:10 tic: I know that. I am just complaining; not asking #lisp to solve my problems. 20:15:24 beach, that's okay. *smile* 20:16:22 Krystof: it's a little bit more complicated in France, at least for another couple of years, but I basically agree. 20:16:52 I simplify a little bit with respect to the UK, too 20:17:08 sure 20:17:12 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A222.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:18:42 clhs union 20:18:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_unionc.htm 20:20:03 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:59 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:21:18 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A248D.versanet.de] has quit [Success] 20:21:27 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:27:33 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:32:12 -!- aht [n=aht@123.16.79.47] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:35:13 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:56 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:45:40 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:46:31 nis [n=nicolas@88-121-116-74.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:41 -!- nis [n=nicolas@88-121-116-74.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:46:56 nis [n=nicolas@88-121-116-74.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:38 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-220-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:38 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@82-69-19-185.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit ["this is not a quit message"] 20:50:25 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.161.174.149] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:51:44 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:52:13 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:53:21 -!- jocke__ [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has quit ["Lämnar"] 20:56:22 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6454f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b10f9534e8a9f957] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:02:37 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-1988d0b801d36025] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:02:43 dec142 [n=Declan@86-45-249-216-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:52 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-3df7fa540cc9ce72] has joined #lisp 21:02:52 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:04:02 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:05:43 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:20 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:10:59 down to 8 files! Yay! 21:12:40 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 21:13:14 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:13:15 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-131-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:14:27 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-131-221.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:15:06 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 21:15:45 jao [n=jao@obfw.oblong.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:13 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-186.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:17:21 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:19:12 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:19:41 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:05 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 21:20:20 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:20:58 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:41 -!- DesesperatedBoy [n=user@ip-221.net-89-2-129.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:24:01 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit ["Disconnecting from stoned server."] 21:24:15 oudeis [n=oudeis@77.124.71.204] has joined #lisp 21:24:16 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:19 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-131-221.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 21:32:04 -!- sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDA861C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:35 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:37:04 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:40:35 nis_ [n=nicolas@91-165-135-177.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:43 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:36 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:46:27 bobf_ [n=bob@host86-147-203-255.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:32 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 21:46:34 -!- dec142 [n=Declan@86-45-249-216-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:46:45 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:46:53 -!- bobf_ is now known as bobf 21:47:30 josemanuel [n=josemanu@87.222.0.255] has joined #lisp 21:48:11 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-14770.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 21:51:37 -!- nis [n=nicolas@88-121-116-74.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:51:43 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["leaving"] 22:00:10 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-131-221.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:01:41 -!- ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@88-108-126-11.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:02:36 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has joined #lisp 22:03:48 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:05:55 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:11:20 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 22:11:32 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6C153.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 22:12:14 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:13:01 -!- egosh262 [n=Miranda@212.106.37.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:13:59 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:14:21 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 22:14:26 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15:27 gonzojive [n=red@171.66.86.9] has joined #lisp 22:16:11 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:21:25 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 22:24:48 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.137.1] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:24:49 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-135-5.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:27:14 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:27:19 MrSpec_ [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 22:27:49 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@87.222.0.255] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:27:54 -!- spec[afk] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:29:44 mcox [n=markcox@124-171-159-191.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:30:18 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-14770.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:30:39 Anyone know of a simple lisp data serializer based on make-load-form. I'm not interested in compiling to fasl. 22:30:49 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@77.124.71.204] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:35:27 oudeis [n=oudeis@77.124.71.204] has joined #lisp 22:36:16 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:37:26 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4b74.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:38:00 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 22:38:31 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:41:43 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["kernel upgrade"] 22:43:42 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:44:14 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:51 mcox, is m-l-f-ness critical? 22:46:41 Anyway, I'm not sure how CL-STORE works. 22:46:48 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:49:54 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BFDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:50:43 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 22:52:32 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-47-197.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 22:52:41 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:53:22 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:53:41 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:49 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:54:40 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@87.223.190.219] has joined #lisp 22:56:20 -!- newlisper [n=wschroed@128.252.233.244] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:57:29 '(defpackage :foo nil) try running that in sbcl 22:57:44 gives an error for some reason 22:58:53 nil isn't one of the options 22:59:07 I'm not using defpackage 22:59:17 I'm making a list with the symbol defpackage 22:59:39 ok, what error does it give to you? 22:59:56 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:59:59 error in FORMAT: no more arguments 22:59:59 ~:<~W~^ ~3I~:_~W~^~1I~@{~:@_~:<~W~^ ~:I~@_~@{~W~^ ~_~}~:>~}~:> 22:59:59 ^ 22:59:59 [Condition of type SB-FORMAT:FORMAT-ERROR] 23:00:26 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:38 I submitted a bug report but no progress yet that I know of 23:00:45 was just curious if anyone realized this yet 23:00:56 oh well, same here 23:01:29 shizzy0 [n=shane@c-76-105-6-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:35 i guess it's a bug in pretty printer 23:02:27 yeah most likely 23:03:33 yeah, bug in the pretty printer. 23:04:27 that format string looks pretty scary 23:04:49 looks like a bunch of scary smilies 23:05:15 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:06:02 -!- MrSpec_ [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [] 23:06:36 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:06:45 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless62.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:08:11 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:09:35 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.190.219] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:10:03 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["leaving"] 23:10:10 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:12:00 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 23:12:09 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:36 a patch is up, yay progress! kudos to Sidney 23:19:01 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-106.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:19:35 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0B79F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:58 -!- gonzojive [n=red@171.66.86.9] has quit [] 23:20:49 wilmersong [i=enriquew@190.198.83.160] has joined #lisp 23:23:33 -!- wilmersong [i=enriquew@190.198.83.160] has left #lisp 23:23:53 dreish_ [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:26:15 say I've got a function bound to a variable, and I'd like to find out more about it, such as its 'signature' 23:26:47 is there a portable means of finding out how many arguments are required etc? 23:27:27 (describe var) 23:27:40 no portable 23:27:53 or, no standard 23:28:09 clhs describe 23:28:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_descri.htm 23:29:08 so I'd have to parse the output of describe to achieve reflection 23:29:28 now you're changing your requirements 23:29:34 clhs function-lambda-expression 23:29:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fn_lam.htm 23:29:45 sorry I forgot to say programmatically 23:29:56 as i said, there is no standard reliable method 23:30:15 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-9-18.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:30:28 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:01 thanks guys 23:34:03 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-131-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:36:58 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:38:23 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:48 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:41:55 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:43:40 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483DE13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:49:00 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:49:10 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 23:51:07 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@77.124.71.204] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:52:26 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:35 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-216-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 23:52:40 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 23:55:45 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:57:08 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:59:16 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:59:33 dtangren [n=dtangren@c-76-125-177-14.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp