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It'd be nice to have that in an uncommon Lisp. 01:33:25 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:18 *_3b* has minimal setf in my lisp already :p 01:34:23 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:45 _3b: Fork over your minimal setf 01:35:21 <_3b> it is mostly just a hack in the code generator currently 01:35:31 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 01:35:39 <_3b> and a bit of support for setf functions 01:39:01 <_3b> actually writing the setf macro support will be a bit more work 01:39:18 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:27 xinming [i=xinming@feather.perl6.nl] has joined #lisp 01:39:28 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:41:57 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:44:51 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:47:33 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 01:52:45 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:49 tessier [n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com] has joined #lisp 01:54:28 zekriad [n=bombshel@doc-24-32-162-50.leesville.la.cebridge.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:41 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-25-7.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:55:05 -!- zekriad [n=bombshel@doc-24-32-162-50.leesville.la.cebridge.net] has left #lisp 01:55:40 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-26-36.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:56:49 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:53 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:59:29 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B41CA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:59:58 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-1.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:00:07 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:00:49 this is bothersome .. hm .. anyone with a sharp eye got a moment? .. http://paste.lisp.org/display/78038 "FAILED: num-iterations: 1000000, x: 784512, (null (queue-as-list queue)): T" .. i might be totally off-track here 02:04:39 <_3b> tried waiting longer? 02:05:18 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 02:06:31 yeah, it still fails 02:07:03 <_3b> does x vary between runs? 02:07:05 ..the check does say that the queue is empty whether i wait a short while or long while also 02:07:07 yes 02:07:27 815340, 770670, 888132, 932984, 885921 02:07:31 seems random 02:08:18 -!- glogic [n=glogic@5ess.net] has quit ["leaving"] 02:10:27 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:10:38 <_3b> ah, i'm guessing the reader thread gets ahead of the writer thread, so the loop sees an empty queue and exits 02:11:04 no, it never exits .. there are two loops 02:11:10 <_3b> oh, right 02:11:32 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:35 i just cannot seem to find or see what i might be doing wrong here 02:13:22 does the previous closures with the incf's in race with the next ones .. or something .. hm 02:13:38 -!- bkudria [n=bkudria@kudria.net] has quit ["ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net"] 02:13:54 <_3b> shouldn't be, and they should be executed in order on 1 thread anyway 02:14:16 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:14:21 mhm, yes, that single thread is the only thing changing X .. one by one .. 02:14:23 heh 02:16:57 (i do have a better design for this message-in-a-queue-thing in a more real scenario that uses wait-conditions etc., but it builds on the assumption that this dumber, thing -- works) 02:17:43 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:17:54 <_3b> any change if you put the destroy-thread and sanity check inside a with-mutex? 02:18:35 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:18:37 nope 02:21:25 i don't even have to change X .. if i just count the number of iterations of the inner loop it is less than num-iterations .. i'll just confirm this and update the paste .. sec. 02:21:25 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:57 <_3b> hmm, what should an empty queue look like? 02:27:07 http://paste.lisp.org/display/78038#1 same thing here 02:27:23 num-iterations-done != num-iterations-requested 02:28:53 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:32:30 glogic [n=glogic@5ess.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:48 ..i can get rid of the destroy-thread stuff too.. 02:34:51 *hefner* doesn't see the error, but plugs his message-queue / worker-thread utilities at http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/hacks/message-queue.lisp 02:35:05 (shame I don't have the occasion to use them more often) 02:35:40 have you given it a spin lately, hefner ? .. i'm considering downgrading sbcl and see 02:35:58 bkudria [n=bkudria@kudria.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:59 no, but I'm running an older SBCL. 02:36:48 <_3b> lnostdal: i get same results with your code on 1.0.21 02:36:50 really, yes, but I'm running an older SBCL. 02:37:05 ok 02:37:07 ok, _3b 02:38:24 drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:41 <_3b> queue-extract-next looks broken 02:40:58 <_3b> it drops entries if you add after an extract on a non-empty queue 02:41:26 oh 02:41:28 damn 02:42:09 i had some problems with that before, i thought i had fixed it :/ 02:43:10 <_3b> see annotation 02:43:19 hmm 02:43:49 how do you tell the difference between when :type nil is given for a slot definition and when no type is specified? 02:44:06 i'm just going to try to trigger the problem using the current extract function, _3b .. non-threaded 02:44:36 <_3b> lnostdal: just add a few by hand and remove 1 than add some more 02:44:42 <_3b> and look at trhe queue 02:45:18 indeed .. thanks a bunch, _3b .. heh .. ugh x) 02:45:30 i was so sure that thing was correct; blind 02:49:17 -!- ddrl [n=ryan@cpe-24-27-73-108.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:50:10 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:50:46 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:10 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:01:18 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:04:16 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:08:56 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:08:58 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:09:07 -!- rullie_ [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151257.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:11:03 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-167-7.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:51 -!- dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:18:33 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 03:19:17 jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:21:58 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:39 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:24:37 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 03:25:16 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:27:17 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:27:45 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:54 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:29:06 hi, i was wondering if anyone can help me get hunchentoot to output backtraces to the browser 03:32:38 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:42 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:34:50 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:35:06 jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:55 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 03:42:47 jlf`: read the function `hunchentoot:enable-global-debugging' for tips 03:45:21 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-68-239-77-4.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:46:21 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-26-36.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 03:46:24 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 03:46:49 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:48:00 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:07 someguy242394872 [n=user@h69-128-203-161.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:13 fcky [n=dist@c-24-18-78-18.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:30 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:53:07 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:53:25 zekriad [n=bombshel@doc-24-32-162-50.leesville.la.cebridge.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:41 clojure and arc have syntax for concise function literals. Can anyone recomend a nice macro for Common Lisp? 03:54:48 <_3b> i'd probably just expand it with an editor macro if i wanted to 03:56:36 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:52 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:57:44 why? 03:58:15 <_3b> more readable for other CL coders if you use the standard LAMBDA macro 03:59:08 <_3b> you could try something like cl-syntax-sugar though, if you want reader macros for that sort of thing 04:02:12 Yeah, thanks. That's what I was looking for. 04:04:55 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:05:51 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 04:09:31 -!- someguy242394872 [n=user@h69-128-203-161.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has left #lisp 04:13:31 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:22:02 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:11 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:24:17 -!- nis [n=nicolas@ABordeaux-258-1-82-86.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 04:28:46 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-208-203.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:55 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:19 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:31:08 guys, generic question 04:31:27 for applications that are written in lisp that require a 'scripting' utility ... what have lisp apps done in the past? 04:31:53 <_3b> just using lisp directly is the easiest answer 04:32:00 do people embed things like tcl into their apps or does it make more sense to let ... 04:32:01 holycow: used Lisp itself? 04:32:06 <_3b> depends on how much you trust the author of the scripts 04:32:12 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-208-203.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:32:12 oh k. that was my next q 04:32:22 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-1.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:32:40 danke 04:32:41 you could also make a subset of your Lisp by using few macros and functions that would compile into "safe" CL code 04:32:59 <_3b> next lower level of trust is probably hacking together a simple interpreter using the CL reader 04:33:19 embedding a scripting engine into a lisp program is perverse bordering on evil 04:33:20 <_3b> to be really safe though, you need to use a separate parser 04:33:29 i would think one ought be able to sandbox the lisp scripts in the application design 04:33:34 <_3b> hefner: even if it is a lisp? 04:33:38 half the reason to write apps in CL is to get away from crappy scripting languages and plugin frameworks 04:34:09 *hefner* shrugs 04:34:28 depends on the app. things like gimp and flash benefit hugely from scripting. there is a set of apps that sits right on the border between programmer and user that require it 04:34:33 a CL app with users needing scripting but who can't be trusted to use CL itself strikes me as very hypothetical 04:34:54 <_3b> hefner: web browser? 04:35:07 that's an entirely different thing 04:35:14 <_3b> hefner: or game, or whatever, where you want users to be able to use 3rd party scripts relatively safely 04:35:31 <_3b> ok 04:35:36 there's security constraints on a web browser (versus, say, a script-fu script) 04:35:39 flash ang gimp both require that scripts don't modify core behaviour but are sandboxed and use an api 04:35:51 you're comparing apples and oranges 04:36:01 p0a [n=user@athedsl-4392862.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 04:36:08 <_3b> hefner: nah, just talking about different parts of the tree :) 04:36:29 Hello I have created a directory .asdf in ~, PUSHed the path to asdf:*central-registry* 04:36:31 _3b: when you say web browser, are you thinking javascript, or extensions to the browser along the lines of firefox plugins? 04:36:40 I have downloaded all the necessary dependencies for lispbuilder-sdl 04:36:44 I mean, obviously you wouldn't run arbitrary CL code from the web 04:36:54 yesterday I was able to do (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'lispbuilder-sdl) and it worked 04:37:01 today it tells me that "component LISPBUILDER-SDL not found" 04:37:20 <_3b> hefner: right... but that is an important criteria for answering 'what do people do' 04:37:23 p0a: when you pushed the path, did it have a / at the end of it? 04:37:39 "/home/p0a/.asdf" 04:37:46 is the path, .asdf is a directory 04:37:50 *_3b* would have the scripting language be lisp either way... but i'd do so completely differently in the various situations 04:37:51 try /home/p0a/.asdf/ 04:38:19 hefner: !! it works 04:38:22 :) 04:38:33 Why does this occur? 04:39:03 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:39:08 i appreciate the input. using lisp as the scripting language makes sense, providing one can sandbox parts of the application properly 04:40:51 p0a: I'm guessing pathname merging. In the first case, ".asdf" is in the name slot of the pathname object and gets replaced by :wild, in the latter it's part of the directory slot. 04:41:27 which function treats "/foo/bar" like this? 04:42:27 No, nevermind this question, a more important one, where can I find documentation for lispbuilder-sdl? http://lispbuilder.sourceforge.net/ doesn't seem to have documentation 04:43:03 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:43:31 nevermind; I have found this, for example here. http://lispbuilder.sourceforge.net/lispbuilder-sdl.html 04:43:36 drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:37 Thanks for all the help I'm going to write something now 04:43:38 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-4392862.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 04:44:52 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:56 -!- nuntius [n=nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 04:53:12 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:01:41 -!- alec [n=alec@pool-96-233-21-86.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 05:01:54 -!- aja [n=aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:03:46 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:25 elderK [n=zk@122-57-246-4.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:04:28 Hey guys? 05:05:46 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:15 minion: memo for LiamH: I'm trying to build gsll on win32 with sbcl but not matter where I put the DLLs, I can't seem to get cffi to see it 05:06:15 Remembered. I'll tell LiamH when he/she/it next speaks. 05:06:24 hey elderK 05:07:50 -!- Beket [n=asdasd@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:07:59 how's it going fuss? 05:08:03 <_3b> fusss: tried the dir from which you started sbcl? (or the current dir of the buffer from which you ran M-x slime) 05:08:25 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:09 _3b: is there a way to force CFFI to use the library I point it to? 05:09:48 i just double click on the emacs icon and it starts in C:\emacs\bin 05:10:32 <_3b> cffi:*foreign-library-directories* possibly 05:11:16 <_3b> if you did M-x slime right after starting emacs, then try that dir... of you opened some file and did M-x slime from that buffer, try the dir that file is in 05:11:25 <_3b> (places to put the dll that is) 05:11:41 <_3b> though using that var, or the system path would probably be the 'correct' way to do it :) 05:12:01 yeah, i usually know what to do wrt directory mess. now i think gsll might be looking for an explicit *.so extension on windows 05:12:27 <_3b> yeah, that might be a problem too :) 05:13:06 <_3b> actually, looks like it just doesn't know about non-cygwin windows 05:13:17 <_3b> in which case it uses a fixed path 05:14:17 <_3b> default looks like "libfoo" so libfoo.dll in the right place might work 05:15:40 _3b: you're messing with GSLL too? 05:15:47 <_3b> nope, just looking at the code 05:16:20 *_3b* is trying to parse/generate .swf files 05:16:48 heh 05:17:46 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:35 *fusss* just found out the GSL folks have done their _own_ posix wrapper for win32 05:18:35 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:18:49 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:19:15 http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/libgw32c.htm <-- notice gnuwin32 IS mingw and these guys have their own little mini-mingw 05:20:42 <_3b> that doesn't sound like mingw 05:21:18 <_3b> mingw is windows api, that looks like it adds whatever they wanted that was missing (possibly at the cost of limiting the license it can compile with) 05:21:23 gnuwin32 ~= MSYS 05:21:58 <_3b> yeah, it might overlap more with msys 05:22:57 but libgw32 has allot of the stuff already that the mingw guys have in their TODOs 05:29:33 octave is cool 05:31:21 reddit: Yay perl, boo lisp. I used to enjoy the posting at Reddit, but it seems that the digg tards have wandered over. What's the latest hangout? 05:34:47 jso: jwz's joint is still hip 05:35:07 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:21 DNA Lounge? :P 05:35:35 Does he have a forum that I've missed out on? 05:35:44 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:38:02 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-4-173.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:38:58 jso: hacker news is alright at first, but eventually gets absurdly lame 05:41:28 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:41:45 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 05:41:55 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 05:42:17 reddit was garbage almost from the beginning until it got subforums, which were decent for a while until enough of them hit critical mass 05:42:55 hi 05:43:29 I think the real issue is that everyone is signed up to a few subreddits from the get go. Luckily, they don't sign people up for comp sci or other such intelligent ones. 05:43:41 hi manuel_ 05:45:01 the irony of people making "hate Paul Graham" threads on a forum he was pretty instrumental in making actually happen is one of the funnier bits. 05:45:09 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 05:46:29 I like PG as much as everyone. But, it seemed that he pushed himself really high and failed to deliver. Worse yet, he delivered what is a step down from R6RS. 05:47:02 jso: I agree in relation to Arc 05:47:32 Yeah. I guess that is all I know of the hate PG stuff. I kinda stayed away after that since it was not productive. 05:47:40 yeah, it isn't 05:47:43 hit videolectures.net and spend this time learning something. 05:47:51 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:49:21 I love that site. But, for now I'm busy catching up on MRPT. The Mobile Robotics Programming Toolkit. But, I was just wondering if there was any decent sites with commentary, such as LtU, but more broad. 05:51:59 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250008.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:52:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:34 xuanwu [n=xuanwu@c-98-223-235-49.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:26 c|mell [n=cmell@x250030.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:55:59 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:38 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:07 -!- gzip4 [n=xxx@78.108.73.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:02:07 btw, it might interest some people to look into "document gisting"; automatic summarization of web pages using, say, LSA (latent semantic analysis) and other statistical NLP techniques 06:07:09 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-63-55.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:07:34 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:09:43 -!- fcky [n=dist@c-24-18-78-18.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:09:44 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 06:10:20 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 06:11:26 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:11:46 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:16:53 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:21:35 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:55 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 06:26:54 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-16-159.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:27:02 Good morning. 06:28:51 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-73-96.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:29:26 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-16-159.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:29:29 -!- beach` is now known as beach 06:29:49 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:32:58 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-229-88-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:27 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-129-173.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 06:34:46 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 06:35:37 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:37 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-35-59.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 06:41:44 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:06 hey beach, nite all 06:42:07 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"] 06:42:27 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.157.237] has joined #lisp 06:47:15 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:21 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-36-114.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:47:48 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-73-96.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:47:53 -!- beach` is now known as beach 06:48:11 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.157.237] has quit ["Life is hard. After all, it kills you."] 06:49:51 -!- xyblor [n=nik@75-119-230-137.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:50:23 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.157.237] has joined #lisp 06:53:38 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-155-153.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:28 baby-luck [n=fake@pcd685013.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 06:56:16 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-82-81-239-4.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:01 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-1831.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 06:57:04 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:57:12 -!- baby-luck [n=fake@pcd685013.netvigator.com] has left #lisp 07:03:09 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has left #lisp 07:04:10 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:05:59 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:08:09 ASau [n=user@pppoe-88-147-221-247.san.ru] has joined #lisp 07:09:00 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:46 jfactor [n=jfactor@pool-71-255-174-250.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:29 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:47 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 07:14:54 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:17:34 -!- deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:20:04 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:29:00 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:33:38 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:12 hjlee [n=hjlee@211.208.210.196] has joined #lisp 07:34:16 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:35:40 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["leaving"] 07:36:33 ejs [n=eugen@173-71-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:49 jobjob [n=user@adsl-75-19-178-246.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:44 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-151-201.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:38:21 morning 07:41:16 hi Krystof 07:45:59 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:10 ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-69-209-223-131.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:02 -!- hjlee [n=hjlee@211.208.210.196] has left #lisp 07:49:56 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 07:50:05 hello Krystof, hello fe[nl]ix 07:50:27 morning beach 07:51:20 Krystof: So do I understand correctly that you managed to get 0 differences in those files? 07:51:46 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@pool-71-255-174-250.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:52:55 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 07:54:33 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:55:25 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 07:59:32 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:01:19 -!- jobjob [n=user@adsl-75-19-178-246.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:01:37 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:10:06 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 08:18:03 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 08:19:21 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:19:26 beach: in my cross-compiled fasls? I'm down to 12 files with differences 08:19:36 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:55 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:20:35 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.190.219] has joined #lisp 08:23:20 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-2.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:23:26 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:23:39 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:51 (out of about 325) 08:27:01 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:27:55 mib_cn4d6h [i=4f3457f2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ba45516c928e8d1c] has joined #lisp 08:32:56 -!- mib_cn4d6h [i=4f3457f2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ba45516c928e8d1c] has left #lisp 08:33:06 <_3b> is there a trick to make emacs indent properly in the presence of ` , and ,@ ? 08:35:21 <_3b> space between , and ( seems to help at least 08:35:32 _3b: You need an editor with a better parser, for instance Climacs. 08:36:29 <_3b> i'd probably try that if i was using linux 08:36:43 what are you using? 08:36:49 <_3b> windows :( 08:36:58 *beach* is surprised there are still people using Windows. 08:37:07 <_3b> you always are :) 08:37:13 of course :) 08:38:00 <_3b> nvidia is starting to get good enough about keeping up with features on linux that i could probably get away with switching for dev stuff, still need to figure out a solution for gaming though 08:38:59 -!- ejs [n=eugen@173-71-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:38:59 <_3b> (assuming i could fins a window manager that didn't annoy me) 08:39:27 <_3b> guess i could always just fall back to twm 08:39:35 stumpwm ;) 08:40:02 beach: lol, i totallya gree 08:40:08 a+gree 08:40:34 <_3b> ianmcorvidae: i'd probably try it, but it seems to have been designed by people with completely different tastes from me, so i'd have to configure it a bunch 08:40:48 oh, yeah 08:40:50 I was mostly kidding 08:41:09 it works well enough for me, but that doesn't seem to be a common position 08:41:34 <_3b> being hackable in CL might justify large amounts of configuration and/or forking :) 08:41:45 true 08:41:52 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:42:12 <_3b> coding my window decorations from scratch in sawfish was at least midly entertaining :) 08:42:50 <_3b> having it randomly stop responding to mouse input a bit less entertaining 08:42:53 _3b: you are writing a game too? 08:43:25 <_3b> holycow: not specifically at the moment, that is theoretically my field though 08:43:32 oh cool 08:43:47 does anyone here have expertice with language bindings? 08:43:48 *_3b* hasn't actually been employed by a real game developer in quite a while :( 08:44:04 <_3b> holycow: you mean FFI stuff? 08:44:06 i'm curious if getting lisp bindings for qt + kde4 is even possible 08:44:29 there's commonqt 08:44:29 <_3b> there are qt bindings 08:44:52 _3b: i've been learning lisp slowly by doing tutorials, but one thing i'd like to be able to do is write apps that can use the kde framerwork ... or at minimum qt 08:44:59 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:45:10 <_3b> binding to c++ is hard, luckily there are enough other more popular languages with the same problem that we can frequently reuse their work :) 08:45:17 if that is the one i've looked at, the dev wrote to me that he has not worked on that for a long time 08:45:28 <_3b> commonqt is new 08:45:34 oh 08:45:37 googling 08:45:38 <_3b> minion: commonqt 08:45:38 commonqt: a Common Lisp binding to the smoke library for Qt. http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 08:45:38 holycow: i haven't tried commonqt but it's for qt4 08:46:15 huh, thx. will be looking at it 08:48:40 i'm not good enough to need to worry about kde bindings, looks like this will do for practice 08:48:46 my thanks, i totally didn't know this existed 08:49:39 _death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 08:50:47 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 08:50:58 -!- mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:51:13 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 08:54:48 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.190.219] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:55:37 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:56:04 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-34-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:02:17 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:04:56 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:10 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:12:06 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:13:36 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 09:15:27 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has 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[i=benni@p5483C2AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:42 -!- eirorow [n=user@adsl-75-19-178-246.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:56:48 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-1831.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 10:57:00 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6BC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:18 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-7221.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 11:00:46 milanj [n=milan@77.46.248.116] has joined #lisp 11:04:38 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 11:05:00 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 11:09:38 bobf_ [n=bob@host81-151-253-225.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:09:42 -!- bobf_ is now known as sed 11:09:54 -!- sed [n=bob@host81-151-253-225.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:10:13 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:49 It is very quiet here today. 11:15:32 beach: enjoy the silence 11:15:50 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:16:52 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:03 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:23:31 -!- xinming [i=xinming@feather.perl6.nl] has quit ["leaving"] 11:23:41 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.68] has joined #lisp 11:23:44 -!- ASau [n=user@pppoe-88-147-221-247.san.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:24:52 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 11:25:01 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 11:26:45 -!- frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.126.246] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:34:22 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 11:37:32 ASau [n=user@95.84.29.149] has joined #lisp 11:39:49 -!- e271 [i=[YaBAl3C@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:40:08 -!- 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[n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:14 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:59:36 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:40 Davidbrcz [n=david@193.52.24.125] has joined #lisp 12:05:05 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:12:33 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:21:27 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:19 http://pastebin.com/d893dc8c <- why is this and how can I obtain expected behaviour? cl-who 12:37:31 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:49 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:38:51 drafael: I don't know cl-who, but I am guessing that with-html-output-to-string is a macro that parses its body for things like :LI at expansion time, which means those tags must be in the body then, but they aren't in your second example. 12:39:46 drafael: what beach said: you must use with-html-output in list-entry 12:39:56 ah, that makes sense 12:40:40 drafael: there may be a function counterpart that does what you want 12:40:49 is there a way to force evaluation or something? 12:40:58 deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 12:41:04 <_3b> i think there was some way to add new tags to the list cl-who could expand, might try defining list-entry with that instead 12:41:22 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:42:18 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:42:54 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.68] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:43:38 I'll have a look, thanks 12:44:46 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has 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[n=brill@0x57386175.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:29:09 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:31:31 -!- brill [n=brill@0x57386175.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:32:50 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:47 legumbre` [n=user@r190-135-33-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:41:55 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@151.205.120.145] has joined #lisp 13:42:44 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:49 -!- wlr_ [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:42:51 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:45:46 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:46:02 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 13:51:06 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:53:02 macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:53:35 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.78.105] has joined #lisp 13:54:47 how can i write a SIGHUP handler in sbcl? 13:56:52 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-34-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:08 i would like to write a program that runs as a daemon, with config reload and graceful shutdown via signals from the init.d script 13:57:54 segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1E5D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:49 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1EED2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:00:33 ajhager [n=user@adsl-75-19-178-246.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:23 macdice: sb-sys:enable-interrupt 14:02:26 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:48 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 14:03:48 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:41 krystof: thanks 14:06:49 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-1.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:07:04 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6BC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 14:08:49 -!- elderK [n=zk@122-57-246-4.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:11:09 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:11:44 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:15:03 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.78.105] has quit ["leaving"] 14:19:28 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:20:49 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:21:48 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:28 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 14:22:50 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 14:29:45 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6BC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:21 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.78.105] has joined #lisp 14:31:47 Is it possible to make COLLECT of LOOP collect the items in reverse order? 14:32:44 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:33:37 vy: no, but that's easy to achieve with PUSH, anyway. 14:34:03 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:46 vy: or you can just reverse the result, I guess 14:37:03 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@193.52.24.125] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:37:15 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.78.105] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:37:36 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:37:48 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.78.105] has joined #lisp 14:40:19 hi 14:40:57 Hello 14:41:40 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.157.237] has quit ["Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers"] 14:45:16 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 14:46:47 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-24-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:47:30 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:59 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:22 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a67492@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a8654d1160af8bc5] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 14:51:56 -!- guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:53:06 Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f140d92e1ff3b626] has joined #lisp 14:55:23 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f140d92e1ff3b626] has quit [Client Quit] 14:55:48 hello dto, hello Jarvellis 14:56:00 Hello beach 14:56:01 guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 14:59:08 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:00:06 ehu [i=5657b052@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-079a509ff33af193] has joined #lisp 15:01:53 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:03:39 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 15:03:50 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp025.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:04:01 Can someone change the topic to say "ABCL 0.14"? Thanks! 15:05:10 Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-69b1c7604f5eb5c7] has joined #lisp 15:05:23 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:08:07 decaf [n=mehmet@88.232.61.144] has joined #lisp 15:09:12 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:39 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 15:12:03 -!- michaelw changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.27, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.14, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 15:14:52 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 15:16:30 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-69b1c7604f5eb5c7] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 15:17:03 macdice: you may be interested in this: http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi/darcsweb.cgi?r=cl-dwim-cl-dwim;a=headblob;f=/util/build-image.lisp 15:17:09 Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d8713d50601c453b] has joined #lisp 15:17:21 that is how we build an sbcl image for our server 15:18:19 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:19:13 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:19:19 alec [n=alec@pool-96-233-21-86.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:31 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d8713d50601c453b] has quit [Client Quit] 15:20:09 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 15:21:03 Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ff2825e115220840] has joined #lisp 15:22:11 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:27 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:22:44 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:24:08 jlf` [n=user@nmd.sbx05975.petalca.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:33 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ff2825e115220840] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 15:27:25 Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-41a6d81f119b85a2] has joined #lisp 15:27:29 attila_lendvai: thanks, looks interesting 15:28:26 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177073097.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:23 -!- vy [n=user@88.227.51.34] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:31:48 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:34:27 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:16 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:36:15 ehu: ping 15:36:28 oudeis_ [n=oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:43 attila_lendvai: do you run this directly, or inside screen/detachtty/similar? 15:37:58 josemanuel [n=josemanu@38.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:42:36 macdice: if you privmsg me your address i can send you the init script and the build image script that calls this 15:42:47 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177073097.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:42:50 macdice: or wait, let's test dcc 15:45:14 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.97.164] has joined #lisp 15:45:53 macdice: if irc file transfer doesn't work then /msg me your email 15:47:20 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:47:25 p0a [n=user@athedsl-4392862.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:47:46 Hello, I'm trying to create a macro of this form (f x :key y z), so y and z corresponds to :key 15:48:25 However, (defmacro f (x :y y) `(if (null ,y) ,x ,y))) for example, does not work with (f x :y 1 2), where the desired return value would be (1 2) 15:49:02 whoops, (defmacro f (x &key y) ... 15:49:05 Perhaps you meant to write &key in there somewhere ... 15:49:31 yeah that is not the problem, it was a mistake in writing the code to IRC, this is not in the original code 15:49:56 Keys and values come in pairs. If you don't want that, then use &rest and decompose the structure yourself. 15:50:14 http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/exercises/lisp-exs.html 15:50:28 Exercise 2, is that how I must do it? Parse the &rest list? 15:50:40 (this is not a school exercise I'm doing it to get familiar with lisp0 15:50:54 danlei [n=user@pD954F36C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:50 and if that is how I must do it, wouldn't I have to evaluate all expressions before :then or :else? 15:51:52 Yes. 15:52:02 No, you're just transforming source. 15:52:48 So, transform them into something wrapped with lambda, presumably. 15:53:08 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:53:13 Since you want to delay evaluation until after the test. 15:53:16 so ... (setf opt :then) (key-if x opt y :else z) is not intended to work? 15:53:42 Uh, not according to your homework sheet, no. 15:54:03 I told you it's not my homework :P 15:54:20 alright then I don't think there's something I don't understand here 15:54:46 thanks 15:57:01 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:42 Here's my implementation for the tconc exercise 15:59:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/78050 16:00:08 Perhaps it can be improved? 16:00:15 ejs [n=eugen@173-71-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:26 Well, it is wrong. 16:02:36 You may not nest defun like that. 16:03:43 why not use defstruct? 16:04:01 Really? I thought this was valid. What is the alternative? Let with lambda? 16:04:02 Actually, if this is not homework, I suggest that you switch to 'practical common-lisp' as a book. 16:04:08 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:04:14 Well, flet or labels. 16:04:21 However, why aren't you using defstruct? 16:04:36 I don't know about it, I'm going to look into it now 16:04:56 fe[nl]ix: hi 16:05:20 I think I have failed this exercise because MAKE-TCONC is supposed to return an object ... is that what defstruct creates I assume? 16:05:51 Something like that, yes. 16:06:55 hmm Zhivago, why you cant nest defun ? 16:07:11 -!- ehu [i=5657b052@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-079a509ff33af193] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 16:07:14 Well, because it is specified to be a top-level form. 16:07:21 -!- decaf [n=mehmet@88.232.61.144] has left #lisp 16:07:27 but you will have it at run time though 16:07:35 It's not about run-time. 16:07:50 I have also found this neat compilation of tips, what do others think about this? http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ggordon/lisp-hints.txt 16:08:27 p0a: It appears to be wrong about symbols. 16:09:08 I again recommend "portable common lisp", which is freely available on the net. 16:09:28 minion: pcl 16:09:29 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 16:09:31 I assume you meant practical? 16:09:44 Aha, /me goes to that page 16:09:45 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:09:51 milanj: you can do it, but it'll perhaps not do what you think it'd do if you know scheme 16:09:58 kantor [n=bird@79.114.91.232] has joined #lisp 16:10:01 Yes, that's what I wrote the first time. :) 16:10:06 Zhivago, hi ;-) 16:10:25 my friend 16:10:32 yes, i dont know scheme :) 16:10:32 kantor: Please be quiet. 16:10:54 Zhivago, why ? 16:11:04 (this is a stupid question too) 16:11:21 kantor: Just practical advice. 16:11:22 my statement is that it's posible and legal 16:11:33 Doesn't make it particularly useful 16:11:46 You can assume that Zhivago knows what he's talking about. 16:12:01 Zhivago, and f not, what are you going to do ? 16:12:14 -!- danlei [n=user@pD954F36C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:12:17 Actually the nested defun is not necessary because tail-list is already in common lisp as "last" 16:12:25 kantor: Whatever happens to be appropriate. 16:12:47 milanj: Zhivago seems to be correct on the issue, if I understand correctly the hyperspec; http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/mac_defun.html 16:12:47 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-41a6d81f119b85a2] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 16:13:07 _Defines a new function named function-name in the global environment_ 16:13:07 p0a: You don't. 16:13:22 Zhivago, ok, then that is not a big thing . . . 16:13:23 envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 16:13:26 i'ts useful for named closures though ? 16:13:49 tcr: Then is zhivago correct or not? Ie can you nest defun? 16:14:01 you can nest defun 16:14:04 and if you can't - what is it in that page on the hyperspec that says you can't nest it? 16:14:07 but you shuld know what are you doing 16:14:13 p0a: You can nest defun, but the defun will define the function in the global environment; it'll not define a local function 16:14:49 it'll be approximately synonymous to (setf (symbol-function 'foo) #'(lambda (args..) ...)) 16:14:56 I see 16:16:16 Zhivago, can we talk now for real . . . 16:16:18 -!- joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:16:22 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:18:07 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:18:40 joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 16:19:29 Zhivago, are you there ? 16:20:39 Hmm it's not possible to write exercise 6 with defstruct as I've been advised 16:20:51 unless I don't name the structure tconc 16:21:03 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:04 because then the make-tconc method will be created which will not work as (&rest l) 16:21:28 Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7d9471d9d56d49d8] has joined #lisp 16:22:37 p0a: See the constructor arguments for defstruct ... 16:23:29 the book you told me to search for does not mention it apparently and the hyperspec is a pain in the ass to understand 16:23:32 but I'll do that 16:23:42 maybe it'll get me used to it 16:23:52 p0a: The easier thing is to define a %make-tconc constructor, and write make-tconc on top of that. 16:23:58 Zhivago, do you see me ? 16:24:32 kantor: Are you here to discuss lisp, or to annoy Zhivago? 16:24:37 tcr: But then the type returned by (make-tconc) would not be but <%tconc structure> 16:24:42 which the exercise doesn't seem to allow 16:24:57 maybe it's a bad exercise after all 16:24:58 p0a: (defstruct (tconc (:constructor %make-tconc)) ...) 16:25:20 Ah, thanks now I understand 16:25:24 tcr, to discuss with Zhivago 16:25:33 I love it 16:25:57 kantor is intent on demonstrating how stupid it is, unfortunately. 16:26:00 does anyone know literature about code walking? 16:26:08 kantor: Please use another channel for that, though. It's inappropriate here. 16:26:35 Ragnaroek: The source of cl-walker may be illuminating. 16:26:59 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 16:27:07 tcr, ok 16:27:27 Zhivago, I would like to demonstrate on private 16:27:29 ok ? 16:27:44 defun appears to be one of the few def~ operators that doesn't have a special top-level meaning :) 16:27:46 megertetted te piszok anyadbaszta fasz 16:27:48 ? 16:27:58 kantor: Please demonstrate it where I cannot see. 16:28:04 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:28:19 Zhivago, akarod, hogy megbasszam az anyad ? 16:28:31 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 16:28:43 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:56 -!- Zhivago has set mode -b %Lain!*@* 16:29:02 -!- Zhivago has set mode +b %kantor!*@* 16:29:07 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 16:30:02 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 16:30:33 X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #lisp 16:30:48 -!- kantor [n=bird@79.114.91.232] has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:29 zh_te_fut [n=bird@79.114.91.232] has joined #lisp 16:31:37 Zhivago, ban-old az apad faszat amikor baszod anyad ! futuz mortu mati ! 16:32:00 -!- zh_te_fut [n=bird@79.114.91.232] has left #lisp 16:32:24 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:33:04 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:56 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 16:34:03 -!- Zhivago has set mode -b %kantor!*@* 16:34:28 ehu`: abcl-0.14 fails here in abcl.jar: «/tmp/abcl-src-0.14.0/build.xml:263: /tmp/abcl-src-0.14.0/src/META-INF not found.» 16:34:38 -!- Zhivago has set mode +b *!*bird@79.114.91.232 16:34:43 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 16:35:00 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 16:37:28 hmm 16:37:32 something seems wrong 16:37:45 (defstruct x (y nil)) 16:37:59 (make-x) gives me errors, *** - NO APPLICABLE METHOD: When calling 16:38:21 (make-y :y nil) too, but these worked before? :S 16:38:32 I'm sorry, I mean make-x. 16:39:16 I am not so good with defstruct, but did you mean to have two slots or a single one with a default value of nil? 16:40:05 tcr: looks good 16:40:15 is there nothing paper-ish about code walkers 16:40:45 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:40:57 beach: I meant to have a single one with default value of nil 16:41:07 Ragnaroek: a code walker is basically just a map function over source code 16:41:16 beach: I got this directly from http://www.aiai.ed.ac.uk/~jeff/clos-guide.html 16:41:17 p0a: I think you need an extra level of parentheses then. 16:41:29 (defstruct x ((y nil))) 16:41:56 this can't be correct 16:42:07 p0a: do you want me to read the entire thing in order to see where that particular advice was located? 16:42:15 p0a: Restart your Lisp image. It seems hosed. 16:42:18 (defstruct x (y nil)) is fine -- be careful with respect to redefinitions. 16:42:28 tcr: I have done so - it continues to repeat the same things... 16:42:36 What implementation? 16:42:50 clisp 16:42:56 It just happened, those functions worked before 16:43:15 p0a: that page is more about defclass than defstruct. 16:43:18 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:19 isn't it more a visitor (like in the visitor-pattern) 16:43:38 beach: Yes, what are you trying to say? 16:43:52 rag: map more or less makes the visitor pattern go away. 16:43:52 Ragnaroek: I'm not familar with the pattern terminology, sorry. 16:43:53 p0a: never mind. Not that important. 16:44:45 so I'm the only one who had his implementation break for no reason 16:45:25 There is probably a reason that you are unaware of and so have not reported ... 16:47:29 It's probably allowed to call map with a generic function 16:47:38 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:47:46 Rag: Of course. 16:47:57 Sure thing. (typep #'print-object 'function) 16:48:31 (In fact in many implementation you can have arbitrary object instances be a subtype of FUNCTION) 16:49:08 It wouldn't make sense otherwise :) 16:50:00 Zhivago: It seems to fail after it loads .clisprc.lisp. Without it it does not; the contents are (load "asdf.lisp") (push "/path/to/.asdf/") (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'lispbuilder-sdl) 16:50:12 and I have not modified anything in /path/to/.asdf/ 16:50:23 Ie it worked before, it doesn't now 16:51:32 And what did you change? 16:53:03 I was just trying to write the exercise and I was (load "test.lisp)'ing and testing... 16:53:21 p0a: This does not appear to be a useful conversation. 16:54:22 I'm sorry then. I removed .clisprc.lisp and I restarted the implementation and I'm working fine without it now 16:55:43 the reason why I did ask: I'm currently investigating if it's a good idea to use a code walker to transform lisp code in order to be compiled to a different language (as it's done in Lisp in small pieces) 16:56:02 vy [n=user@88.227.51.34] has joined #lisp 16:56:31 rag: Um, how would you do this without walking over the code? 16:57:32 -!- jlf` [n=user@nmd.sbx05975.petalca.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:59:14 -!- GrayMagiker [n=steve@97-123-189-76.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:59:19 don't know :) maybe there is a other way 16:59:24 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 16:59:27 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:59:33 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-116-220.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:00:21 I have to 'look' at the code, that's clear 17:01:10 http://paste.lisp.org/display/78050#1 17:01:16 here's the implementation with defstruct 17:02:09 But I find that defstruct must be called before other functions, to create the type. That's not a problem right? Or there's a way to avoid tihs?| 17:05:23 p0a: I would recommend you use defclass instead for better semantics. 17:06:46 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 17:08:19 Another annotation, it seems the code is fine now, http://paste.lisp.org/display/78050#2 17:08:46 beach: I will look into it; but I like to do things one at a time :-)... still trying to grasp basic lisp here heheh 17:10:05 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 17:10:48 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:32 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:21 vy` [n=user@88.230.118.91] has joined #lisp 17:26:17 Balooga [n=luke@adsl-76-194-232-110.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:14 pa0: What's the problem with lispbuilder-sdl? 17:29:29 p0a i mean. 17:31:14 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:31:42 -!- envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:33:05 drakej [n=fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:19 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.97.164] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:34:18 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:34:37 -!- vy [n=user@88.227.51.34] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:34:54 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:35:57 blagicap1 [n=Blagica1@92.55.70.181] has joined #lisp 17:36:26 Balooga: no idea really 17:37:01 Balooga: I downloaded all the dependencies of lispbuilder-sdl from cliki, untared them all, and created symlinks to the *.asdf files in (first asdf:*generic-registry*) 17:40:48 frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.129.3] has joined #lisp 17:41:02 After fiddling some more with it, here's what I wrote 17:41:03 http://paste.lisp.org/display/78050#3 17:41:31 I added &key tail as an optimization so tconc can work with tconc structures, and there's no need for an O(n) last function 17:42:41 but I realize this actually uses references and doesn't create new lists... if I had to use COPY-LIST I'd also have to use LAST, and O(n) is inevitable unless there's a QoI > 0 17:42:49 -!- blagicap1 [n=Blagica1@92.55.70.181] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:43:47 p0a: Did you get the lispbuilder-sdl stuff to work though? 17:44:25 Yes 17:44:48 yay :) 17:44:57 why do you seem so interested? 17:45:06 (do you happend to maintain balooga.com?) 17:45:33 p0a: Because I'm one the developers. 17:45:44 p0a: Yes. 17:46:22 cool :) 17:47:07 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:47:39 Well since I'm all set to write more code without any troubles, I'll be back some other time, bye everyone 17:47:40 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-4392862.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 17:48:22 fe[nl]ix: thanks for your report! 17:48:55 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-69-3.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:49:00 bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@209-161-226-98.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 17:49:04 ehu`: can you reproduce it ? 17:49:17 not yet :-) 17:49:22 just found your issue. 17:50:31 -!- bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@209-161-226-98.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:50:51 building the tar file now 17:51:33 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250052.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:47 ehu`: will you make a new release ? 17:53:17 c|mell [n=cmell@x250010.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 17:53:23 nis [n=nicolas@83-154-175-191.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:04 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:58:47 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:48 -!- Balooga [n=luke@adsl-76-194-232-110.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 18:01:20 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:02:57 this seems cool, folks http://cloud.github.com/downloads/nallen05/djula/generated-documentation-djula-v0.2.html 18:03:25 xuanwu_ [n=xuanwu@c-98-223-235-49.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:52 it even has a translation module for i18n :-) 18:03:52 fe[nl]ix: yup. with me it fails too. yes to a new 0.14. 18:07:34 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1FFA.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:08:20 -!- drakej [n=fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:08:23 drakej [n=fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:32 benny [n=benny@i577A1FFA.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:10:56 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-151-201.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:13:04 any ideas on how to seat lisp between a web server and a resource? i want any GET for example.com/foo.png to go through an http server, which passes the request to lisp (fcgi?) but the lisp actually updates foo.png and does other things to it, and after that the webserver returns the resource on its own and lisp goes back to wait for next request .. 18:14:05 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-35-59.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:14:06 foo.png doesn't exist at first, just a `touch /var/www/example/foo.png`; but it's generated everytime by a lisp process for every request 18:14:20 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:14:44 (and it's not really a png file; i could use mod_cg for that ;-) 18:15:11 make an apache rewrite rule that converts /foo.png into /your/servlet/thing/via/mod_lisp/or/cgi?orig_req=foo.png maybe? 18:15:51 (with mod_rewrite which allows for regex based rewriting of URLs) 18:16:47 danlei [n=user@pD954F36C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:20 i'm still not sure of the notification step though; the file already "exists", but i want the server to pause for usecond while lisp generates a new version, then goes to return it. will read more about mod_rewrite nevertheles. thanks :-) 18:20:13 of course, none of this would be necessary if i can guarantee hunchentoot could handle 20hits/second for a 90k file, so back to `ab` 18:20:41 I can see why my French students would be reluctant to coming to #lisp, because they are convinced their English is so bad, they wouldn't understand anything or make themselves understood. But I can't understand why my Vietnamese students would have a problem. But they seem to. 18:21:28 Perhaps it has to do with my total lack of experience with other IRC channels, and that they "know" what to expect more than I do, but then I would have expected them to tell me that. 18:22:59 beach: not even a native english speaker who isn't a programmer can understand most IRC conversations 18:23:25 it takes years of experience being an interweb twat 18:23:31 fusss: But that's how we learn, and by participating here, one learns real quick. 18:23:42 fusss: http://netzhansa.blogspot.com/2008/07/building-load-resilient-web-servers.html 18:24:15 -!- vy` [n=user@88.230.118.91] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:24:27 Furthermore, there is absolutely no obligation to say something intelligent, or anything at all for that matter, as far as I can tell :) 18:25:02 fe[nl]ix: mate! looking good there. thanks. 18:25:19 fusss, make a rewrite rule as macdice suggested, but accepting a parameter(foo.png?call-lisp-p=t). then after lisp generated the file, redirect to apache again from lisp 18:26:20 I mean, there are hundreds of people here that never uttered anything, and nobody bothered them. 18:26:33 oudeis: noted. cheers! 18:26:35 I do wonder why they join 18:26:41 fusss, or even do this: rewrite rule is for /images/foo.lisp, but redirect from lisp goes to /images/generated/foo.png. 18:26:52 dlowe1: To "listen" I presume. 18:27:09 dlowe1: to absorb wisdom 18:27:23 oudeis: another good idea 18:28:15 fusss, the second if you find that dues to some browser bugs your image is saved on the client with the filename containing the query part 18:28:18 beach: i learned english reading hacking/cracking tutorials; then graduated to unix books and manuals 18:28:22 -!- ejs [n=eugen@173-71-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:28:57 Perhaps I am underestimating the fear of making a fool of yourself. I mean, if you are not even willing to take that risk, I suspect you are not going to learn a lot. But then, that might be what the problem is: the fear of having to learn something new, or cognitive dissonance. 18:29:12 fusss: I consider you exceptional in many ways. 18:29:25 but then why make any such effort? 18:29:48 heh 18:30:04 dlowe1: Because I am actually paying my Vietnamese students to make the effort. 18:30:36 beach: no kiddin' 18:30:37 beach: certainly they should do so then, but we've had 200 lurkers on this channel previously 18:31:12 I think they're just joining for the intellectual cachet of having #lisp in their /whois 18:31:22 Could be. 18:31:53 if every one of the people in #lisp right now would make one generally useful library, CL would be in a pretty good spot :p 18:32:02 fe[nl]ix: Not at all. I am actually paying them from personal money to participate in Lisp projects, but we have only just started, so right now they are learning Lisp. 18:32:55 fe[nl]ix: This makes sense because if you consider the amplification factor involved in the currency exchange rate, I am testing whether "I" could get a lot more done per Euro this way. 18:33:23 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-36-6-127.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 18:33:43 fe[nl]ix: Plus, they pretty much all have part-time jobs anyway, and I would rather that the part-time job would be learning Lisp and then taking on some of the projects that need to be worked on. 18:37:38 Did I say something inappropriate? 18:37:52 -!- drakej [n=fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:37:59 *beach* detects an uncomfortable silence 18:38:03 :) 18:38:04 ejs [n=eugen@48-134-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:08 beach: on which projects do you intend to have them work ? 18:38:10 nope, you just say a lot 18:38:18 :D 18:38:32 fusss: have you tried without any extra stuff? 18:38:38 fe[nl]ix: Well, I tried to tell them that I don't care which, but then gave them the LispOS project site that I have. 18:38:43 fusss: i.e. is there a need to optimize prematurely? 18:38:46 guaqua: sorry! 18:39:27 drakej [n=fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:33 beach: there is absolutely nothing to feel sorry for :) 18:40:28 guaqua: 20hit/s is worst case scenario; i'm shooting for an idealized "peak hour" that is not likely to happen. but i'm serving graphs, and there are times when Omega limits are hit easily (think of breaking news) 18:40:42 fe[nl]ix: This was another very uncomfortable thing for them, because they were used to being told in detail what to do. So I said if you really need a spec, then work on parsing any email message and printing the text of every textual MIME part in UTF-8. 18:40:47 have you benchmarked, fusss? 18:40:48 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 18:41:34 guaqua: with ab, just a bit, but i don't trust my own benchmarking yet as i'm still on the development box and not the deployment box 18:42:29 you could try benchmarking with tsung. it may give you a better clue 18:42:34 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.74.164] has joined #lisp 18:43:35 Hi! How can one uninstall SBCL if it was installed via "sh install.sh"? 18:43:50 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:43:52 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 18:44:13 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:18 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:46:16 ebzzry, just delete the files it put in /usr/local and /usr/share 18:46:25 Hello 18:46:30 oudeis: How do I determine what are those? 18:46:43 hello MrSpec 18:46:57 look at install.sh 18:47:17 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:47:18 oudeis: I'm looking at it right now. 18:47:39 ebzzry, just find /usr -name '*sbcl*' 18:47:52 oudeis: I was thinking of something like "sh uninstall.sh" 18:48:00 huh, does ccl really have a char-code-limit larger than most-positive-fixnum? 18:48:06 -!- jsnell_ is now known as jsnell 18:48:57 ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@88-108-126-11.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:01 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 18:49:50 jsnell, in ccl64 on darwin: char-code-limit 1114112, most-positive-fixnum 1152921504606846975 18:49:53 jsnell: don't think so. their integer-length is 21 and 29 here 18:50:05 oudeis: Thanks Den (might have been neat though if there was an uninstall target/cmd) 18:50:33 ebzzry, i think jsnell will invite you now to write one 18:50:59 oudeis: Not yet. I'm very busy with F now. 18:51:18 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-126-130.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:51:21 oudeis: He'll slit-open my throat. 18:51:47 ebzzry, ok let's keep the channel on-topic 18:52:01 beach, didn't you say that the reason for not having your French students around here was that they /were/ actually bad at expressing themselves? IIRC, you tried that once. 18:52:06 ejs1 [n=eugen@48-134-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:08 mega1 [n=mega@53d8357f.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 18:52:13 ok, then I wonder what dan weinreb meant in http://danweinreb.org/blog/adventures-trying-to-use-open-source-libraries 18:52:22 "find /usr -iname '*sbcl*' -exec rm -rf {} \;" will have some collateral damage. 18:52:59 It will, when there's a system-installed (or distro installed) one, alongside the one from the primary tree. 18:53:20 tic: Yeah, I tried, but I can't say I know the exact reason I failed. 18:53:20 jsnell: me too. that issue is a bit awkward 18:53:59 oudeis: "find /usr/local ..." seems to be OK. Thanks anyway. :-) 18:54:07 tic: What I noticed what that they were behaving badly, on purpose. 18:55:00 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:55:49 -!- ejs [n=eugen@48-134-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:56:08 beach, alright, and you couldn't figure out why. interestign. 18:57:25 splittist [n=chatzill@adsl-84-227-188-73.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:57:32 morning 18:57:41 hi splittist 18:57:44 tic: Well, I suspect the ones that actually showed up here are among the vast majority that don't appreciate our Lisp-based teaching, so they were just trying to do some damage. 18:57:49 hello splittist 18:58:43 beach, bummer. :| 18:59:25 tic: yeah, I was very disappointed. 18:59:27 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:00:00 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:12 kleppari [n=spa@212.30.204.85] has joined #lisp 19:00:45 Do I remember Fare saying that a unified PROVIDE and REQUIRE facility would be good for XCVB? 19:01:09 "unified"? 19:01:12 jsnell: (char-code ) should return nil 19:01:24 um, wait 19:01:29 (code-char ...) should do that 19:01:43 beach: "consistent", I think I meant. 19:02:02 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:02:08 I only mention this because the obviously good project name is Common Require And Provide. 19:02:22 nice! 19:02:24 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:02:41 splittist: So you mean that they would work the same across implementations? 19:03:06 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:03:11 beach: yes. It's been a long day at the office and my brain has mushified. 19:03:26 splittist: sounds like it, yes :) 19:03:36 jsnell: but that's one thing that ccl gets right that sbcl doesn't 19:03:46 splittist: You are lucky that it seems to solidify over night. 19:03:48 it affects lichtblau's xml stuff too 19:04:09 (I don't know if that's what weinreb ran into; it is true I think that what he says makes basically no sense) 19:05:06 beach: there's always that first time... "One day Gregor Splittist woke up to find he'd been transformed into a giant blonde..." 19:05:24 Krystof: why do you think it's correct to return NIL in case of a surrogate pair code ? 19:06:19 I am sure such fears could keep any lawyer from falling asleep :) 19:06:22 "Surrogate Character. A misnomer. It would be an encoded character having a surrogate code point, which is impossible. Do not use this term." 19:06:35 (The Unicode glossary) 19:07:17 "C1 A process shall not interpret a high-surrogate code point or a low-surrogate code point as an abstract character." 19:07:26 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:07:29 (the Unicode standard, section 3.2) 19:08:18 splittist: That was a joke! 19:09:18 splittist: Did I tell you the one about biology research labs in the US replacing white mice with lawyers? 19:09:27 beach: yes. I am laughing. And now I'm being called to bed. Laters. 19:09:30 -!- splittist [n=chatzill@adsl-84-227-188-73.adslplus.ch] has quit ["(quit)"] 19:09:37 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 19:09:44 Aww! 19:11:03 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:11:32 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-69-3.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:11:43 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633728.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 19:12:03 Beket [n=stathis@adsl-248-073.diodos.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 19:12:25 9~e9~ 19:12:31 fcky [n=chuc@66-169-217-174.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:42 Patzy: ? 19:13:09 sorry, pressed enter with crap in the prompt :) 19:13:31 happens to all of us. 19:13:43 :) 19:13:54 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:07 valvola [n=fabiovio@host55-1-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:18:31 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 19:21:20 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:21:33 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:25:09 jfactor [n=jfactor@student167-182.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 19:26:14 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:24 What is the best library for loading, writing and manipulating (copying a smaller image into a bigger on)? I would like to try ch-image, but the site is down. 19:28:01 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:29:45 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:06 cpape [n=user@sd-111.stud.uni-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 19:35:48 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:36:08 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:40 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:38:05 The-Kenny: That might still be the best one. I don't know why it is down, but slyrus is the author and comes here often so you can ask. 19:38:24 beach: Okay, thank you :) 19:43:08 -!- ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.74.164] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:45:20 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-33-30-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:59 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16972E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:47:04 slyrus: Do you know why The-Kenny can't get access to ch-image? 19:48:01 -!- macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Cet ordinateur s'est endormi (zzz)"] 19:56:29 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client"] 19:58:31 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:13 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-44-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:42 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-44-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 20:05:13 benny` [n=benny@i577A0099.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:06:10 i am currently trying to call a function which wants a double-float as an argument. i just want to pass zero, but i cannot find out how to create a double float. i always get an error. 20:06:23 0d0 20:06:47 michaelw: thx 20:08:22 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 20:16:22 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.97.164] has joined #lisp 20:18:37 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:19:07 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 20:20:20 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1FFA.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:20:45 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:23:37 beach, The-Kenny: because my web server crashed, again. there's a problem with sb-ext:run-program crashing on freebsd 20:24:34 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:25:08 manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-124-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:25:10 -!- kleppari [n=spa@212.30.204.85] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:25:15 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:25:55 roark [n=roark@student165-43.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 20:25:56 back up now... 20:29:20 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:27 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6BC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 20:31:27 francogrex [n=franco@91.176.133.165] has joined #lisp 20:31:46 Hi, a quick question, just a one line: 20:32:11 what does this give in your implementation (and which one yu're using)? 20:32:19 (adjustable-array-p (make-array 5 :fill-pointer 0 :adjustable nil)) 20:32:33 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["leaving"] 20:32:48 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has joined #lisp 20:35:47 ? 20:36:02 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:20 ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 20:37:07 francogrex: why? 20:37:22 -!- legumbre` is now known as legumbre 20:37:44 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has joined #lisp 20:38:04 francogrex, T. 20:38:47 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [] 20:39:01 : you'll see that it's not the same for different people. : Are you using SBCL or CMUCL? 20:39:12 SBCL-1.0.23 20:39:18 i thought so 20:39:44 logically it should give nil 20:39:50 francogrex: no, it shouldn't 20:39:54 seems to depend on what adjust-array thinks. 20:40:05 clhs make-array 20:40:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_ar.htm 20:40:08 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@48-134-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:40:10 fe[nl]ix: working on it. found the issue. 20:40:27 "If adjustable is non-nil, the array is expressly adjustable (and so actually adjustable); otherwise, the array is not expressly adjustable (and it is implementation-dependent whether the array is actually adjustable)." 20:40:48 meh. why is it implementation-dependent? 20:41:04 drewc: tricky that bit. it means you can't prevent arrays from being adjustable. 20:41:40 ehu`: right .. non-adjustability is an efficiency hack, not a contract. 20:42:39 very tricky indeed; in ecl you have achoice, in sbcl you don't anbd they're both ansi compliant! 20:42:45 I recently had to fix this in ABCL. took me quite some reading before fully grasping passages like those. 20:43:12 ehu`: what's the use case for expressly non-adjustable arrays? 20:43:15 in abcl you also don't have a choice: too much code to maintain a futility like that. 20:43:24 drewc: none :-) 20:43:33 that's what i'd hoped :) 20:43:45 drewc: especially not in Java where you have to create additional levels of indirection anyway. 20:43:48 how about a tuple, masked as an array? 20:44:05 tic: why would you adjust a tuple? 20:44:07 it'd make sense to have it non-adjustable 20:44:07 drewc: the issue was that an expressly adjustable array *wasn't* adjustable. 20:44:11 drewc, exactly, you wouldn't. 20:44:23 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:44:43 tic: why would it hurt you to store it in an adjustable array, though? 20:44:45 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:44:53 tic: so what does it matter if it's adjustable? If a user of your library decides to modify the representation of its datastructues, that's really their own problem. 20:45:01 ehu`, no particular reason. just trying to come up with /a/ use case. :-) 20:45:30 drewc, as always. maybe it allows you to have the compiler to kick the user in the groin? 20:45:46 oh i belive the internal datastructure of the array in java is to really use a non adjustabvle array.. but when you adjust it.. it adjusts the non adjustable array ;P 20:45:49 (instead of the user kicking herself in the groin and blaming you) 20:45:54 ehu`: given that adjustable arrays appear to be quite slow to use, why bother with them anyway? 20:46:10 dmiles_afk: rather it reallocates and copies the old content, right? 20:46:23 michaelw: what's "quite slow"? 20:46:27 S11001001, yes.. not better way of doing that unfortuantly 20:46:55 ehu`: it was faster to allocate a bigger array and copy things over last time I tried (sbcl) 20:47:04 michaelw: I know that in Corman Lisp adjustability creates an additional level of indirection (2 pointer refs to get an AREF instead of 1) 20:47:19 maybe that works for SBCL too 20:47:21 yeah copy and repoint is the fastest 20:47:28 on 64 bit you could probably give each object its own 32-bit address space and mmap extra pages as needed :) 20:47:45 but for ABCL, there is already the need to have 2 pointer refs to get to the data. 20:48:02 ok, time and tide wait for no man, and the tide is falling.. time to go sailing! 20:48:03 in that case, why not have only 1 type. 20:48:19 S11001001: posibly a very spares array impl that does slices for some pople they'll be abe to implment by subclassing AbstractArray thankfully 20:48:19 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@student167-182.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:48:31 spares/sparse 20:48:43 _CitizenKane_ [n=quassel@edit57.daily.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 20:49:21 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:50:16 something very cool about ABCL arrays/vectors is it actualyl uses the correclty sized underlying array instead of a ArrayT 20:50:56 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:51:10 -!- _CitizenKane_ [n=quassel@edit57.daily.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:51:29 so an array of fixnums really is a int[] 20:52:50 well they are stored in unboxed form.. the jurry might be out if when accessing them the cost of rebox 20:53:19 -!- alec [n=alec@pool-96-233-21-86.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:53:47 but anyhow the user can store them in a TArray if they believe it will be better 20:53:58 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 20:55:22 -!- roark [n=roark@student165-43.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:56:17 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@38.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 20:56:40 -!- valvola [n=fabiovio@host55-1-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:57:37 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.66.203] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:58:25 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has left #lisp 20:59:04 does anybody know of a c-l.net project which has download counters? 20:59:35 I don't 20:59:44 I'd really like to host abcl downloads on c-l.net instead of SF, but they have download counters... (quite informative) 20:59:47 -!- ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@88-108-126-11.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:00:24 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:00:44 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCD6D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:49 poet [n=user@fermat.cse.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 21:03:09 -!- poet [n=user@fermat.cse.uiuc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:05:56 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66826@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7d9471d9d56d49d8] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:06:55 poet [n=tsally2@fermat.cse.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 21:08:35 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:08:53 -!- poet [n=tsally2@fermat.cse.uiuc.edu] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:09:03 : I don't see why would you not want counters? 21:09:05 poet [n=tsally2@fermat.cse.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 21:10:03 francogrex: I *do* want counters. However, I *don't* want to host on SF. 21:11:08 poet_ [n=tsally2@fermat.cse.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 21:11:54 ok i understand 21:12:49 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-151-201.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 21:13:32 -!- cpape [n=user@sd-111.stud.uni-potsdam.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:13:42 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:49 jfactor [n=jfactor@student166-15.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 21:13:59 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:14:05 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:27 -!- francogrex [n=franco@91.176.133.165] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:14:52 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:15:03 -!- poet [n=tsally2@fermat.cse.uiuc.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 21:15:43 -!- poet_ [n=tsally2@fermat.cse.uiuc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:16:06 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:16 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:28 -!- birdsbite [n=user@74.196.9.26] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:17:36 -!- drakej [n=fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:17:38 drakej [n=fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:22 ehu`: we can add something like that for you, it shouldn't be too hard 21:18:42 *drewc* is leaving now 21:18:58 drewc: talk to you later. 21:19:34 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:20:24 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:21:46 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-124-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 21:25:53 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 21:27:18 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 21:29:07 _CitizenKane_ [n=quassel@edit57.daily.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 21:29:51 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:03 -!- HET2 [n=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:30:30 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 21:30:34 HET2 [n=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 21:32:41 tbielawa [n=tbielawa@157.182.194.176] has joined #lisp 21:38:25 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:39:19 fe[nl]ix: new release posted. 21:39:25 ok 21:41:00 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0CE14.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:35 nekobaka [n=baka@c-76-29-163-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:54 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-7221.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:43:55 -!- fcky [n=chuc@66-169-217-174.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:44:13 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-212-45.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:45:26 fcky [n=olav@ip72-196-22-62.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:48 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0CBD1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:23 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 21:50:02 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:42 dto [n=user@68-187-212-45.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:38 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-130.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:03 oudeis [n=oudeis@77.124.71.204] has joined #lisp 21:55:26 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:56:37 josemanuel [n=josemanu@38.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:58:22 Hello. I'd like to know if "->" is a built in operator in ANSI lisp. I haven't been able to find information on this anywhere. 21:58:33 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:58:57 I ask because my professor is using it in code. We're working on grammars. I'm not sure how it's actually functioning. 21:58:59 tbielawa: it's not 21:59:40 fe[nl]ix: feel free to report any other issues you find, here or on the development list. 21:59:46 fe[nl]ix, thanks for the answer. Now I can stop searching the docs heavily 21:59:47 ok 21:59:56 and try and decipher this code.... 22:00:07 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:00:27 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0CBD1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:01:24 tbielawa: a good way to find out would be (apropos "->" :cl) 22:02:07 tbielawa: try (apropos "string-" :cl) too 22:02:50 thanks for the tips. no result for -> found 22:03:02 and etc 22:04:09 If you care to see what I'm talking about you can find the grammar here: http://csee.wvu.edu/~tbielawa/grammar.lisp 22:04:34 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 22:04:34 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0CE14.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:04:42 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-229-88-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:05:00 tbielawa: note that your -> is in a quoted list 22:05:31 tbielawa: so it's not actually being evaluated by CL 22:05:52 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:06:14 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:06:24 (forgive me, this is my first day lisping). it being quoted would then imply that with other functions we've writtten it's being parsed. 22:06:38 tbielawa: good implication :) 22:06:53 dlowe, :) 22:07:03 Russel-Athletic [n=engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:06 hiho 22:07:41 -!- Beket [n=stathis@adsl-248-073.diodos.auth.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:08:20 i want to write a macro which replaces (name args) by (defun something body) (defun somethingelse body), so having it define 2 functions but it seems i am too stupid for this 22:08:20 Hansel [n=chatzill@cpe-66-65-25-217.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:48 i tried writing it basically down but it seems not to define the function 22:09:01 Russel-Athletic, expand to (progn (defun ..) (defun ...)) 22:09:29 the result of your macroexpansion must be a single form 22:10:41 thanks dlowe and fe[nl]ix 22:10:45 -!- tbielawa [n=tbielawa@157.182.194.176] has left #lisp 22:10:50 -!- sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 22:10:57 thanks i try it 22:12:03 -!- benny` is now known as benny 22:12:16 thanks it worked 22:12:21 good 22:12:38 i had the idea too but i wasn't sure how the progn would get evaluated in this case 22:13:40 -!- Hansel is now known as GoD|Hansel 22:14:02 -!- GoD|Hansel is now known as Hansel 22:14:16 just as in any other case. it will evealuate all forms in orderm, then return the value of the last one, which will be discarded since the progn will be here a top-level form 22:14:23 -!- Hansel is now known as GoD|Hansel 22:14:59 -!- GoD|Hansel is now known as Hansel 22:17:08 -!- Russel-Athletic [n=engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit ["better go to sleep now"] 22:18:06 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@38.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:19:12 alec [n=alec@pool-96-233-21-86.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:22 NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-233.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:26:03 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-2.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:28:15 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-33-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:28:19 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-33-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:29:40 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.248.116] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:30:31 rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:01 -!- fcky [n=olav@ip72-196-22-62.om.om.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:34:33 isomer [n=isomer@modemcable219.159-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:35:19 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-2.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:35:22 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C2AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:35:29 -!- isomer [n=isomer@modemcable219.159-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 22:36:15 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-2.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:45 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-2.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:43:12 -!- joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has left #lisp 22:45:57 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-19-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:19 joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 22:47:27 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d8357f.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:50:26 roark [n=roark@student167-244.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 22:52:59 -!- dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:55:19 -!- NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-233.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:57:06 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.97.164] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:58:40 -!- slyrus__ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-130.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:58:40 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:58:58 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:59:02 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 23:04:49 dkcl [n=dan@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 23:05:43 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-230-233-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:06:14 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-201-204.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:12:22 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:47 Hello, anyone know what's up with the cl-opengl newsgroup? 23:18:14 -!- HET2 [n=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:19:21 -!- nekobaka [n=baka@c-76-29-163-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:20:35 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@77.124.71.204] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:22:56 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 23:24:40 rullie_ [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151257.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:28:37 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:30 is there a good javascript engine written in Lisp? When I search for it, I seem to only be able to find Lisps written in javascript :-( 23:31:27 aggieben: the original JS implementation at Netscape was written in CommonLisp 23:31:49 AFAIK it's still somewhere on Mozilla's CVS server 23:32:17 but it would need to be brought up-to-date 23:32:26 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:00 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:06 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151257.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 23:34:27 -!- rullie_ is now known as rullie 23:36:16 -!- drakej [n=fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:39:44 aggieben: I think it's linked from here: http://www.cliki.net/Javascript 23:46:32 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:20 The-Kenny, the most misnamed #lisper since The-Xah (a ukranian astrophysicist lisp enthusiast) 23:52:52 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250010.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:53:42 HET2 [n=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 23:55:56 c|mell [n=cmell@x250022.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:57:51 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCD6D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."]