00:02:00 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:04:35 *nyef* realizes that he got no actual feedback on lh-guid.lisp itself, just on the problems with making it accessible. 00:04:58 -!- _8david [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:06:03 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:09:58 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:10:01 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [] 00:11:31 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BB6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:15:08 teilzeitstudent_ [n=teilzeit@p5B17D021.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:16 -!- carbocalm [n=drjors2@76-10-137-63.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:26 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F4C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:17:34 carbocalm [n=drjors2@76-10-137-63.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:45 envi^laptop [n=envi@219.241.46.188] has joined #lisp 00:18:05 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@219.241.46.188] has quit [Client Quit] 00:18:23 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:18:48 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:18:59 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 00:20:10 benny` [n=benny@i577A0331.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:28:49 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-5622.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:15 -!- schmx [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:30:28 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@ppp-69-218-255-225.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:50 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17ED50.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:25 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:32:36 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0C46.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:33:38 -!- jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:34:31 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:20 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. 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It could be read as a macro call. 02:51:43 I was more referring to backquote 02:52:13 I suspect it is done after macro expansion. 02:52:37 Did I just write chinese? 02:53:07 No. But you seem to be referring to the character `, and when that's expanded into its "canonical form" 02:53:22 Am I incorrect? 02:53:29 There's no canonical form. It's all implementation dependant. 02:53:30 <_3b> Quadrescence: possibly you need to be more clear about what you mean by 'expand' 02:53:46 "read as" 02:54:21 Try: (mapcar 'print (read-from-string "`(a b ,c ,@d)")) 02:54:52 You'll see what your implementation does. 02:54:54 dtangren [n=dtangren@74.64.125.73] has joined #lisp 02:54:56 -!- dtangren_ [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:55:31 <_3b> Quadrescence: ` is a macro character, so any thing it does is done at read time 02:56:03 <_3b> anything that happens after read time is something else's responsibility, and in the case of ` 'something else' is implementation defined 02:56:41 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:56:53 Right, and I am not speaking of the character itself. I am speaking of BACKQUOTE 02:56:58 <_3b> parts of the specified behavior of ` have to happen at runtime, but i'd call that part evaluation, not expansion 02:57:00 (I just used ` as shorthand) 02:57:08 <_3b> clhs backquote 02:57:09 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for backquote. 02:57:17 Quadrescence: a shorthand for what? 02:57:22 <_3b> maybe you want #scheme? i think they specify that sort of thing :) 02:58:06 <_3b> (or more explicitly, there is no BACKQUOTE... the spec specifically leaves the implementation of ` up to the implementations) 02:58:07 clhs ` 02:58:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 02:58:45 Incidentaly, note that (char-name #\`) -> "GRAVE_ACCENT" 02:59:03 Yes, calling it BACKQUOTE was my error 02:59:43 <_3b> "backquote n. the standard character that is variously called ``grave accent'' or ``backquote''" 02:59:50 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@74.64.125.73] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:59:51 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:59:51 <_3b> so no error 02:59:56 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:00:08 <_3b> no error in calling the character that, i mean 03:00:21 <_3b> there is still no macro,function, or special operator of that name 03:00:32 in CL. 03:00:41 <_3b> right 03:00:46 Right, I was erroneous in thinking there was. 03:02:13 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:33 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:07:01 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 03:09:04 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E44B10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:18:50 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-198-192.we.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:20:58 how would one make a list of, say, the numbers from 1 to 100? 03:21:24 psyllo [n=psyllo@72-255-13-75.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:45 <_3b> (loop for i from 1 to 100 collect i)? 03:22:52 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250021.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 03:23:19 ok, just got that 03:33:57 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@219.241.46.188] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:37:47 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-34-198.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:59 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:53:48 envi^laptop [n=envi@219.241.46.188] has joined #lisp 03:55:42 i really like your name _3b 03:55:57 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 03:56:01 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:59:43 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:23 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 04:03:02 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:04:50 -!- _CitizenKane_ [n=quassel@edit57.daily.umn.edu] has quit ["No Ping reply in 30 seconds."] 04:04:59 _CitizenKane_ [n=quassel@edit57.daily.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 04:09:14 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:19 -!- jao [n=jao@148.Red-83-39-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:18:05 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:22:52 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:28:02 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:06 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:39:20 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 04:42:38 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:43:01 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151257.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:43:11 hi, (swank:create-swank-server) is undefined? =/ 04:43:44 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:47:20 rullie: are you looking for swank:create-server? 04:47:36 pkhuong: did it get renamed at some point 04:47:53 pkhuong: and yes, i think that's what i'm looking for :) 04:51:13 -!- Jstick [n=e@c-76-19-197-119.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:52:16 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [] 04:53:34 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:55:25 -!- disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:03:55 -!- younder [n=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 05:07:52 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:22 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021906]"] 05:10:02 What is everyone's least favorite sounding lisp function/macro/special form? 05:10:13 constant/etc. 05:12:25 is slime version mismatch a big deal? 05:19:46 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:46 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.214.215.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:26:23 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:43:01 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.41.191] has joined #lisp 05:43:46 all i wanna do is to have a permanent sbcl running and have emacs be about to hook into it and detach from it. can someone point me a url please. 05:43:55 be able to* 05:46:08 -!- nuntius [n=nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 05:47:03 rullie: shouldn't be 05:47:31 rullie: (swank:create-server :dont-close t) ? 05:47:46 oh 05:48:01 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:48:01 and M-x slime-connect of course 05:48:23 let me give that try 05:48:23 you'll have to (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :swank) 05:49:04 and make sure the swank.asd is in a directory that's in your *central-registry*) 05:49:44 very sweet 05:49:53 thanks drewc :) 05:50:23 rullie: np, glad to be of service. 05:57:48 Good morning. 06:01:52 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 06:03:22 k now i'm trying to connect to a remote swank without port binding. it says connection refused. netstat says the remote box is listening on 4005, any ideas? 06:03:59 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:07:19 good morning 06:09:26 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:40 fusss [n=chatzill@70.179.113.121] has joined #lisp 06:10:11 does Leslie Polzer come here? what's his nick? 06:10:49 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.41.191] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:11:16 or for that matter has anybody gotten the new utf-8 patch for montezuma to work? 06:12:04 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:05 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@70.179.113.121] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:12:06 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 06:12:40 fusss: yesterday, around this time mogunus asked about it 06:12:54 yeah? :-) 06:13:16 yes, and he said he would give it a try because he'd need it 06:13:28 -!- psyllo [n=psyllo@72-255-13-75.client.stsn.net] has left #lisp 06:13:56 "Testing complete, 0 of 2353 tests failed (0.00)" then "Illegal :UTF-8 character starting at position 9." from babel 06:15:47 fusss: do you know more about montezuma or are you just starting to use it? 06:16:03 i just started using it tonight 06:16:51 and it's very promising 06:17:00 fusss: from what you've read up to now, do you think it would be possible to index certain columns of a DB? 06:17:15 yes, absolutely 06:17:36 e.g. by hooking it into postmodern 06:18:22 fusss: how much work would it take in your opinion? 06:18:36 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:18:40 you will probably need to hand it rowset with an ID; it will return a "document ID" on a match, not the matching excerpt of the document. 06:19:05 ejs [n=eugen@63-134-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:11 the tutorial has three lines of code 06:19:12 fusss: that'd be absolutely ok 06:19:42 but you will need to read the rowset from database and be explicit on what "ID" to return when that particular document matches 06:20:29 if you have two tables and two sets of primary keys, and you use a primary key as "ID", montezuma will return you an primary key ID and you wouldn't know what table it is from. 06:20:32 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:20:45 fusss: would a combination of entity/table name and id do? 06:21:00 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:00 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [".oO(it's never too late for sleep)Oo."] 06:21:00 fusss: yes. understand. 06:21:16 fusss: but that'd be solvable 06:21:55 you will need a unified namespace. yes, a combination, you need some kind of structure/record/association-list .. but i guess it has to be a string, so "table_id" might work, and you can split that by the _ and reread each part seperately. 06:22:54 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:54 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:22:56 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 06:23:30 i have been pleasantly surprised with the quality of some lisp libraries. both montezuma and rucksack are .. awesome. 06:29:09 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-12438.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 06:30:56 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:32:27 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:37:35 saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 06:40:43 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:43 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:40:45 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 06:42:19 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:27 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:42:31 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 06:46:22 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:50:35 -!- ejs [n=eugen@63-134-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:02:55 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:11 kami-: it works! 07:03:21 haha :-P lovely montezuma! 07:03:35 you just have to think a little hard about your utf-8 awareness 07:03:37 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:04:20 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 07:05:09 (mapcar #'index-file (directory #p"C:/Documents and Settings/fusss/My Documents/mailinglist/death_threats/*.txt")) does not always work. you just need need some conscious effort to convert your strings to vectors and your vectors back to strings where necessary. 07:05:45 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.225.218] has joined #lisp 07:06:09 file globing on a whole directory will probably break; wrapping your directory-listing with an intelligent way to tell which text are what encoding is what you will need. 07:10:39 now that i got it working, i forgot what i needed it for 07:14:21 sohum [n=sohum@burgmann181.anu.edu.au] has joined #lisp 07:14:42 is there a slime shortcut for "send code I just compiled to editor window"? 07:15:10 is there any Lisp-related project in GSoC this year? 07:15:10 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:15:57 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:57 c|mell [n=cmell@x250023.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 07:16:12 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:18 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.225.218] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:16:21 sohum: how would slime know where to insert the code? :-) 07:16:34 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.225.218] has joined #lisp 07:16:52 the usual work pattern is to type in the editor and evaluate it there (i.e. send it to the repl) 07:16:53 fusss: does it work with utf-8? I don't understand what you mean: "think a little hard about your utf-8 awareness" 07:17:52 kami-: yes, it works with utf-8. make sure you open the file with appropriate :element-type, any intermediary buffers should accordingly be created as :element-type :utf-8 and you should be fine. 07:18:10 fusss: heh, point. "pull stuff I last compiled from slime"? 07:18:23  07:18:45 fusss: and I know that's the usual, but sometimes you're just in the repl and trying something out and then poking at it to see if it works and such, and then you finally get it right 07:18:50 gusnoo: argh, the dreaded UTF-8 smileys! 07:18:52 sohum: if you're expecting slime to append it to your editor buffer, what happens when you fix a typo? append it again? 07:19:06 fusss: great. I'll give it a try. thank you. 07:19:09 sohum: copy and paste 07:19:35 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp9-20.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:20:21 fusss: if I ask slime to append it, obviously I want to append it. And I know c&p works, but it also works as a replacement for sending stuff to slime for compilation, which we do have a shortcut for. 07:21:01 p_l: if you can't see utf-8 smileys, you will probably need trivial-utf-8, or maybe sb-ext:octet-to-string, or was it babel? maybe it was flexistreams. I'm sure it was cl-unicode! 07:21:45 sohum: no idea here mate 07:21:46 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.225.218] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:22:01 fusss: fair enough. may have to write it, then 07:22:03 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.225.218] has joined #lisp 07:25:59 fusss: I see them. They are still dreaded :P 07:26:30 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.225.218] has quit [Client Quit] 07:27:38 not dreaded, keep up with the modern times  07:28:39 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:29:36 *p_l* decides to leave flamethrower alone and goes for nuke keys 07:30:18 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 07:32:13 ✈ ☹ 07:32:20 awww 07:32:50 fusss: you can't unicode??!! 07:32:54 hey. having a problem getting SLIME to work. loading it fails while compiling stuff with that at the end: "Condition: Lock on package SB-IMPL violated when interning INDENTING-STREAM.". any idea? 07:34:26 gusnoo:    07:35:34 i can type foreign languages but not symbols and funky stuff 07:38:50 lisp 07:42:27 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.192] has joined #lisp 07:42:40 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.192] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:46:56 -!- xan_ is now known as xan 07:49:54 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp440.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 07:57:04 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 08:01:27 kpreid___ [n=kpreid@67.242.4.64] has joined #lisp 08:12:38 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]"] 08:14:55 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 08:20:45 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-81-1.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:22:11 disismt1 [n=user@124.124.233.5] has joined #lisp 08:23:03 -!- disismt1 [n=user@124.124.233.5] has quit [Client Quit] 08:23:22 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:38 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit ["leaving"] 08:25:31 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:27:20 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 08:27:42 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [] 08:28:37 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:29:38 psyllo [n=benc@72.255.13.75] has joined #lisp 08:29:51 disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has joined #lisp 08:31:01 -!- disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has quit [Client Quit] 08:32:25 -!- psyllo [n=benc@72.255.13.75] has quit [Client Quit] 08:34:10 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:35:56 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.157.0] has joined #lisp 08:43:04 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-140-99.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:43:08 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:47:00 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@219.241.46.188] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:54:08 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0EF15.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:13 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:00:35 hankhero [n=henrik@c213-89-194-181.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:02:44 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 09:06:05 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.157.0] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:06:25 fjs [n=chatzill@93.104.111.132] has joined #lisp 09:16:01 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:27:36 dwave [n=ask@062016247065.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 09:33:10 -!- acieroid [n=quentin@41.22.83-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:38:03 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit ["leaving"] 09:38:12 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 09:39:16 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-133-68.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:39:29 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Client Quit] 09:40:06 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250023.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:40:58 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 09:43:41 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:44:28 mega1 [n=mega@pool-01a27.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:48:08 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:12 good evening 09:48:28 good afternoon 09:48:38 :) 09:48:39 Beket [n=stathis@ppp9-20.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:49:30 good day. 09:53:47 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 09:56:53 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 09:57:55 how is everyone 09:58:18 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 09:58:25 *stassats* is hacking some code 09:58:38 what sort of code? 09:59:13 gui using mcclim 09:59:24 YAY! 10:02:28 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:05:47 -!- danlei``` [n=user@pD9E2D4A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 10:18:59 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 10:22:00 -!- Chronona1t is now known as Chrononaut 10:29:59 danlei [n=user@pD9E2F919.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:09 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 10:41:17 c|mell [n=cmell@x250019.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 10:49:27 josemanuel [n=josemanu@252.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:51:42 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp9-20.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:56:48 sweemeng [n=sweemeng@243.60.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 11:02:33 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.142.66] has joined #lisp 11:03:20 PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:08:26 -!- PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:10:37 PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:11:06 -!- PissedNumlock is now known as Numlock 11:11:11 -!- Numlock is now known as PissedNumlock 11:13:53 brill [n=brill@0x57386175.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 11:16:04 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:20:35 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-126-145.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:21:42 -!- greg` [n=greg@ip72-207-244-108.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:21:46 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:21:56 hi, when i use a load command in a let form is it possible that the effects of loading the file are only visible after the let form ended? 11:22:42 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:23:03 i wouldn't think so 11:24:36 in the file i loaded i defined a package. and if i use this package in the next command after load it says package not found 11:24:39 What about top-level-ness? 11:24:50 nor me, but don't forget that the form is _read_ before the load is executed 11:25:05 klausi: that must be a read-time/run-time issue. 11:25:26 klausi: if you mean that you make reference to that package in the same form that loads it. 11:25:40 pjb`, yes 11:25:45 klausi: then you must realize that this form is read before it is executed: the package should be defined before. 11:25:55 ok i got it thanks 11:25:58 klausi: that's why we usually define packages in a separate file, so we can load it first. 11:26:15 trying to add features in a non-Lisp languages is horrible. *sob* 11:26:20 Beket [n=stathis@adsl-245-118.diodos.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 11:27:59 thanks everyone 11:29:23 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-44-93.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:35:08 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:43 chris2 [n=chris@p5B1688EF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:39:51 tic: How about adding features in forth ? 11:43:23 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:43:29 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:37 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:46:32 -!- brill [n=brill@0x57386175.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 11:47:37 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E44C85.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:58 sulo [n=sulo@p54A3D7C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:38 schme_, "trying to add features in non-extensible languages is horible" 11:50:30 tic: pre-processor. Cf C++, Objective-C, Pro*C, etc... 11:50:51 :D 11:51:15 pjb`, yes... like I said, horrible. 11:51:33 -!- sulo [n=sulo@p54A3D7C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:51:36 You may implement the pre-processor in lisp. 11:51:37 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E428.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:38 pjb`, in this case, I'm actually blessed with a fairly reasonable language (Python), but I sure wish I had macros. 11:51:47 pjb`, then I'd have to parse the language. yuck! 11:51:59 Python, are you sure you couldn't implement macros there? 11:52:37 I'm pretty sure I could do them in Ruby. 11:52:42 in a crude way with eval(), sure. 11:53:02 Overridding class and def. 11:53:04 I'd much rather do it with s-exps, though, but alas you can only print the AST of Python source code, and not the other way around. 11:53:16 Maybe stop using python (: 11:53:53 class and def can't be overridden as such, although you /can/ make a metaclass for class. not quite sure if there's a function metaclass. That still doesn't solve my problem -- based on a function, I want to generate a class. And like I said, I really really dislike eval. 11:54:19 schme_, yeah. it'll be over soon enough. (at least this hackathon, in the future I "just" have to maintain it. :) 11:54:28 Probably in these languages you can't avoid eval. 11:54:30 or abandon it (: 11:54:37 *sohum* has fond memories of using eval to implement a limited special-purpose REPL interface to code 11:54:50 s/fond/filled with painful string-munging 11:56:05 Hm. Maybe I could use a templating language w/ loops and what have you to get macros. hm. *puts in TODO* 11:56:22 tic: maybe you should use clpython :) 11:56:32 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:56:53 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-140-99.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 11:57:44 schme_, that'd work until someone discovered I've thrown in a bit of Lisp in the source. 11:58:52 vng [n=vuong@123.20.2.123] has joined #lisp 11:59:02 Excellent. 12:02:51 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF09D71.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:55 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:57 milanj [n=milan@79.101.76.236] has joined #lisp 12:16:22 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:17:18 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:56 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:27 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 12:26:24 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:26:40 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:31:58 -!- Beket [n=stathis@adsl-245-118.diodos.auth.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:32:54 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 12:37:53 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-12-40.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:40 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:41:54 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E3D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:53 -!- elena [n=chatzill@94.36.96.54] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:48:16 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-245.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 12:48:51 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 12:52:50 bangtree [n=bangtree@pool-71-98-95-27.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:05 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:06:07 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.244.122] has quit ["leaving"] 13:06:33 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.244.122] has joined #lisp 13:08:23 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 13:08:51 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:29 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151257.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:11:24 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:02 Beket [n=stathis@adsl-245-118.diodos.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 13:18:53 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151257.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:23:40 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-44-93.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:31:32 -!- hankhero [n=henrik@c213-89-194-181.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:36:15 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-145-143.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 13:36:32 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:42 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-140-99.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:41:12 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-145-143.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:41:54 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:39 ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 13:50:27 hi, how can I get the size of a file in SBCL? 13:50:45 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.142.66] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:51:02 clhs FILE-LENGTH 13:51:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_file_l.htm 13:51:20 is the closest standard answer. 13:51:22 Isn't it possible to print _raw_ `\n' in CL? 13:51:29 clhs terpri 13:51:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_terpri.htm 13:51:44 or: #\return #\linefeed 13:51:53 but file-length requires opening a file, which is not always possible 13:52:23 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 13:52:27 stassats: indeed. Otherwise you need to use implementation and platform specific stuff. 13:52:28 Yep, I know about #\return and terpri, what I'm looking for print... Nevermind, was a stupid question. 13:52:37 pjb`: thank you 13:52:56 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:03 And the value return by FILE-LENGTH depends on the element type of the used stream. 13:53:36 (sb-posix:stat-size (sb-posix:stat "/etc/sudoers")) => 424 13:55:59 Why does "\n" return "n"? Which section of the CLHS tell about handling of `\' in string literals? 13:56:01 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1F060.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:12 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 13:56:33 clhs 2.4.5 13:56:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_de.htm 13:56:39 segv [n=mb@p4FC1F7F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:52 and it's obvious, that \ does escaping 13:57:12 vy: you don't need to escape new lines in string. 13:58:12 pjb pasted "newline in string" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77385 13:58:20 -!- ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 13:58:55 vy: in lisp strings, you only need to escape double-quotes and backslash. 13:59:34 vy: but you can use your own " reader macro. http://paste.lisp.org/display/69905 14:00:18 and cl-interpol for more features 14:00:30 um, just use FORMAT and ~RET 14:01:19 ~RET is cool for indentation (check the : and @ flags). 14:02:09 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:26 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.142.66] has joined #lisp 14:05:24 Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-1-102.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:06:14 -!- bangtree [n=bangtree@pool-71-98-95-27.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:06:39 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:11:17 what do you guys think of factor? I've only just started learning it, but it seems it's got the uniform syntax thing down pat 14:11:28 ( http://factorcode.org/ ) 14:13:19 looks cool. compact. 14:14:02 'foo bar' quoted is [ foo bar ], which is really nice 14:14:44 and it looks like they have real macros 14:15:55 #concatenative is somewhere not here 14:16:18 I know, I just wanted to know lispers' on factor. 14:16:33 *lispers' opinions 14:16:40 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:32 i haven't looked at it seriously, but i don't think it can give me something better than lisp 14:19:07 saikat [n=saikat@128.253.170.217] has joined #lisp 14:19:19 why do you think so? 14:19:55 why should i think different? 14:20:44 well, you tend to assume advances in the state of the art 14:21:49 Yeah, just look at C#3.0! 14:22:02 it's just reinvented DSLs, some fifty years later. 14:22:57 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 14:23:25 ok, so it doesn't always hold true. still. 14:24:01 LostMonarch [n=roby@host66-178-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:24:02 stassats: It gives you one implementation, and no legacy. 14:24:11 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-132-204.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:24:15 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-57-33.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:20 hankhero [n=henrik@m83-178-25-69.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:24:25 if i invest my time into something new, i do it either for fun, or if it could improve my productivity considerably 14:25:01 hi anyone using lispworks personal edition? lispworks exited and now my file i just worked on is empty is there any way to restore it? 14:25:29 did you save it? 14:25:47 yes 14:26:40 if there is no copy, you could grep your hard disk and find your file... 14:26:51 -!- saikat [n=saikat@128.253.170.217] has quit [] 14:27:09 cads [n=max@72.54.140.153] has joined #lisp 14:27:17 provided that it is contiguous and you remember some of its content 14:27:45 i remember some of its content 14:29:07 klausi: you can try grepping your /proc/kcore , that sometimes works 14:29:08 -!- xan_ is now known as xan 14:40:30 [OT] How can I print a ToC under a @chapter in a texinfo file? 14:40:41 klausi: if you saved it, i presume you know where? i think the lw-editor do emacs-backup files, file.lisp~, say, but otherwise it's nothing but though luck, i think. :/ 14:41:19 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-153-130.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:41:36 saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 14:42:28 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-153-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:42:59 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-145-143.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:43:25 agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has joined #lisp 14:43:42 i saved it and yes there is a file.lisp~ but it is a very old version 14:43:44 saikat_ [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 14:43:55 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:44:03 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-153-130.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:44:35 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0EF15.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:44:52 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:16 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:45:21 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:46:38 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:46:48 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:04 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [] 14:49:44 saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 14:57:54 Good afternoon. 14:58:13 heya, beach. 15:05:11 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-182.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:06:02 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-68-239-77-4.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:04 tic: What's up? 15:09:55 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp440.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:10:33 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:14 beach, working on the build system at work, which also happens to be example & test suite for my object system. :) Nice weather, so I'm pondering a walk or a ride with the bike. You? 15:13:43 Just came home from grocery shopping. Nice weather here too. A bit cooler today. 15:17:05 I got a colleague who's heavily into Haskell to read my copy of PCL about a week ago, and I managed to explain why multiple dispatch and generic functions are superior to single dispatch. 15:17:17 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [] 15:17:45 tic: Congratulations! So he'll be coming here soon? :) 15:18:06 rey_ [i=pdewacht@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:18:53 tic: hmm. why didnt he think so at first? even in java say, i would be happier if i could dispatch on more objects, let alone specialisers and before/after methods. 15:18:53 beach, I haven't thought of it, but I'll suggest that. He wrote a Ruby interpreter in Haskell for his master's thesis. 15:19:19 hypno, "what's the point? just open the class, or add a common base class. I don't see the need." 15:19:29 but then I explained how you can add methods on code you don't own. 15:19:46 and also the problem of in which classes you want to place your methods. 15:21:48 newerspeak [n=newerspe@adsl-162-128-197.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:31 td123 [n=tom@c-76-16-162-211.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:36 does anyone know a popular ansi common lisp implentation with gui and multithreading support? 15:25:51 td123: There are many 15:25:54 and networking support 15:26:11 td123: gui on what platform? 15:26:23 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 15:26:36 sbcl and mcclim? 15:26:41 kpreid: well windows or linux atm it doesn't have to have both 15:27:48 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:50 td123: i think ccl is a good choice then. i think ccl only have support for win32api tho, but.. or you can get lispworks trial edition. 15:28:22 -!- theoffset [n=ismael@201-167-98-234-cable.cybercable.net.mx] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:28:24 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:30:46 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 15:33:16 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.142.66] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:33:56 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:34:29 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:20 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 15:39:52 matley [n=matley@host243-157-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:42:24 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:46:04 hypno: did you mean gcl? 15:46:17 clozure common lisp 15:46:52 -!- cads [n=max@72.54.140.153] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:47:04 td123: Most people here use SBCL, so I would go for the choice indicated by stassats. CLIM/McCLIM is very unusual as far as GUI libraries go though. 15:47:27 beach: cool 15:47:47 umm, I'm gonna take a look at some suggested implementations, ty for all your help 15:49:05 btw, is there a "The Lisp Book" sort of like C has K&R as "The C Book" 15:50:28 please don't point me to the ansi common lisp standard document :D 15:50:41 minion: tell td123 about pcl 15:50:42 td123: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 15:50:42 practical common lisp isn't like K&R, but i'd recommend it for you to read 15:50:50 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:06 tdl123: I got a copy of the ANSI Common Lisp book by Paul Graham that I like very much 15:51:17 of course, the gigamonkeys book is quite good too 15:51:19 td123: what aggieben_ said. 15:51:30 ok, ty, I've been reading ansi common lisp by paul graham, don't know how good that is compared to pcl 15:51:34 minion: graham crackers? 15:51:35 graham crackers: http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/readings/graham/graham-notes.html 15:52:09 nice 15:52:59 wow, that link is helpful 15:53:26 yes, if you want write in more common style than pg's style 15:53:54 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:54:54 wow and just my luck, pcl is free. 15:55:04 as in beer 15:55:40 td123: yupp. as is also "On Lisp" and the hyperspec and CLTL2 (recommended) 15:55:47 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:56:25 random quick question: can an :initform for some slot refer to the value of another slot in the same instance? 15:56:28 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:56:44 td123: and you also have PAIP to read. :) for CLOS, Keene's book is excellent, but nonfree afaik. check the library. 15:56:45 -!- hankhero [n=henrik@m83-178-25-69.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:56:50 ianmcorvidae: You would have to use an :after method on initialize-instance for that. 15:57:04 okay. Thank you :) 15:58:04 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-47-203.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:34 td123: CLHS (the hypertextified, but not technically official, version of the CL specification) really is the popular *reference* material for CL. 16:00:44 in that it is much like K&R 16:03:39 -!- Beket [n=stathis@adsl-245-118.diodos.auth.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:06:29 kpreid: thanks 16:10:32 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:14 nathanael [n=nathanae@82.113.121.11] has joined #lisp 16:12:14 -!- nathanael [n=nathanae@82.113.121.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:14:10 -!- newerspeak [n=newerspe@adsl-162-128-197.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [] 16:16:38 saikat [n=saikat@128.253.170.217] has joined #lisp 16:18:06 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:19:35 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:16 dtangren 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#lisp 17:32:40 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:21 schmx [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:38:57 vsync [n=vsync@220-27.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:42:55 tmh: repo.or.cz is showing lisp-unit now under the lisp tag 17:47:50 -!- schmx [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:49:56 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:15 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:56:11 ejs [n=eugen@119-228-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:52 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 17:58:53 hello 17:59:21 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:59:46 josemanuel [n=josemanu@252.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:05:43 Beket [n=stathis@adsl-249-076.diodos.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 18:08:20 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:57 clhs define-method-combination 18:18:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_4.htm 18:20:50 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:22:21 timor [n=icke@port-87-234-97-28.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:27:03 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:28:14 ejs1 [n=eugen@119-228-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:37 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:36:20 dlowe [n=dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 18:38:03 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Client Quit] 18:38:05 schmx [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 18:38:10 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:38:28 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 18:38:56 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:40:04 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:40:18 -!- rindolf is now known as CPAN 18:42:29 -!- CPAN is now known as rindolf 18:43:44 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@119-228-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 18:44:00 LiamH: Good. I'm making progress on my other project, so I should be able to get the documentation updated. Now that lisp-unit is a little more public, the documentation might come in handy. 18:44:13 s/updated/& soon/ 18:44:33 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:54 Good. It's still not showing up in the main index, but I'm hopeful that they're working on it. 18:45:15 pitui` [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:33 -!- pitui` [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:50 -!- theoffset [n=ismael@132.254.52.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:52:32 passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:58:56 tritchey [n=tritchey@68.58.88.241] has joined #lisp 19:00:45 d 19:00:52 Beket_ [n=stathis@adsl-249-076.diodos.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 19:02:55 -!- passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:05:04 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:14 dtangren [n=dtangren@pool-72-89-116-20.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:25 -!- agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [] 19:07:43 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 19:09:07 theoffset [n=ismael@132.254.52.91] has joined #lisp 19:12:01 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 19:12:31 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:15:01 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 19:15:19 passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:16:19 frank_s [n=frank@41.145.42.12] has joined #lisp 19:21:39 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:21:46 -!- Beket_ [n=stathis@adsl-249-076.diodos.auth.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:21:54 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:22:14 -!- matley [n=matley@host243-157-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:25:16 -!- maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:27:01 -!- passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:30:16 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@pool-72-89-116-20.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:30:38 dtangren [n=dtangren@pool-72-89-116-20.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:33 Jstick [n=e@c-98-216-218-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:18 so i have a beginner question on a pretty basic function, but for some reason i cant define it just right 19:33:33 passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:33:45 What a dilemma! 19:33:49 ha yes 19:34:10 i need to define a function that removes adjacent duplicates in a list 19:34:19 like 1 1 2 3 would be 1 2 3 19:34:51 but im only returning the duplicates and the rest of the list is getting dropped. like 1 1 2 2 3 returns 1 2 19:36:53 (loop for (a b) on list when (eql a b) collect a) or some variation of that. 19:38:06 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:38:19 is there a way i can show you what i have...i got yelled at for pasting code before.. 19:38:28 because i think i have something like what you are saying 19:38:34 pastebin? 19:38:39 it's in the topic 19:38:39 minion: tell Jstick about lisppaste 19:38:40 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 19:38:52 Cel: lisppaste is preferable 19:39:07 -!- passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:39:09 ah, that's what I meant,.. 19:39:15 Jstick: you could show us that, or you could just use the solution I just showed you. 19:39:32 passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:39:38 Jstick pasted "remove duplicates" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77392 19:39:50 comp.lang.lisp is pretty hilarious at times.. 19:39:55 alright, just pasted 19:40:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77392 19:40:25 Jstick: yes, we saw that. 19:40:29 oh i didnt see it tells you 19:40:31 sorry 19:40:36 Jstick: so what is it that you didn't like about my suggestion? 19:40:58 Jstick: (car (cdr l)) is the same as (cadr l) 19:41:20 Jstick: always put a space before the first '(' in a group, like between = and ( 19:41:28 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host66-178-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 19:41:30 yea i meant to change that, thanks. nothing i didnt like i just thought i had something similar to what you said thats all 19:41:34 Jstick: also, realize that = only compares numeric values. 19:42:08 the expected input is to be numeric i believe 19:42:41 Jstick: your (cons (car l) ...) will terminate the recursion, which doesn't seem right. 19:42:48 sorry, my bad 19:43:19 "my bad" for what? will it terminate there/ 19:43:20 ? 19:43:29 Jstick: No, I was wrong. 19:43:32 oh ok 19:44:01 Jstick: you should indent your code correctly though. 19:44:09 i think its because i dont really have a case for when two adjacent numbers arent equal 19:44:14 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:44:31 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:33 ok 19:45:02 Jstick: and you need a better name, like keep-dup. 19:45:36 i guess that would make more sense, but it is called remove-dup in my homework assignment 19:45:58 remove-dup-if-not! 19:46:03 well i do want to remove the duplicates so that 1 1 becomes 1 19:47:01 Jstick: you could use some variation on mapcar (like mapcan) applied both on l and (cdr l). 19:48:44 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:48:56 -!- vng [n=vuong@222.253.90.39] has left #lisp 19:49:00 do you have an idea why its dropping the numbers which are duplicates? 19:49:14 "it"? 19:49:58 Jstick: the else branch of your if is wrong 19:50:05 the function. 19:50:39 (the second if expression; you're throwing away the current element) 19:50:46 tcr: should i ask in the else if car not equal to cadr, cons car on recursion of the cdr 19:50:52 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@pool-72-89-116-20.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:51:34 yea... well that is my issue because im losing the numbers which arent duplicates 19:52:33 Are you familiar with folding? 19:53:03 I'd use REDUCE which is Common Lisp's folding function. 19:53:32 ive used fold in scheme, but never REDUCE 19:54:52 Reduce@Home? 19:55:46 Jstick: It's essentially the same thing. It makes it very easy what you want to achieve 19:56:07 i will try and work w/ that, thanks. 19:57:35 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:59:06 X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #lisp 19:59:37 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:59:39 vy [n=user@88.230.118.106] has joined #lisp 20:06:55 clhs reduce 20:06:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_reduce.htm 20:07:29 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:08:08 jfactor [n=jfactor@pool-71-162-111-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:27 beach, does G# happen to have support for embedding lyrics, or is it only for notes? 20:10:06 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:49 does lisp used at this time? where it does? 20:11:50 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-111-132.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:13:21 Lisp is dead. Nothing to see here. Please move on. 20:13:32 tic: It supports lyrics. 20:14:06 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has joined #lisp 20:14:45 tic: In fact its protocol will support any staff type, provided you tellit what kind of items are on that staff type wrt the size and duration of those items. 20:15:02 tcr: Good answer. 20:15:33 passwordoff: We are the last 250 people using Lisp on this planet and our number is rapidly decreasing. 20:15:37 heheh 20:15:50 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:58 *rsynnott* read that as _lisp_ supporting lyrics 20:16:39 It does in some ways. 20:18:45 250 people is ok 20:18:52 we can rule the world 20:19:59 Not us, our AI overlords, Developed in Lisp!(tm) 20:20:33 oh, bloody minion 20:20:47 #python has 717 people 20:21:02 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 20:21:04 therefore, lisp is slightly more than a third as important 20:21:08 :) 20:21:54 How many of them do actively participate? 20:22:23 no idea 20:22:29 I just joind now to see 20:22:55 I don't know, but to be fair, only a small fraction of the people on #lisp actively participate. 20:23:10 (on the other hand clojure is about the same size as #lisp) 20:23:11 as is #erlang 20:24:40 there doesn't seem to be a #newlisp 20:24:58 and I think #arc has about three people :) 20:26:27 -!- schmx [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:26:28 This has *got* to be the ultimate way of judging promising technology. 20:28:16 hm. is there some modern code for commercial or scientific usage on lisp? 20:28:21 indeed 20:28:37 passwordoff: yes 20:29:36 would you give me URL with example, please? 20:29:41 passwordoff: you would really have wanted that answer to be "no" right, but you are out of luck. 20:30:03 passwordoff: I am not going to do the reasearch for you, but check out a company called ITA. 20:31:00 beach, I obviously need to start using G#, to make the chords/tabs+lyrics I find on the intarweb easier to read. (I presume that at least guitar chords, although maybe not tabs, and lyrics would work, right?) 20:31:23 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 20:31:45 tic: tabs are not implemented yet, but I would love to see that implemented. 20:31:53 schmx [n=marcus@c83-249-81-1.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:31:53 passwordoff: also, if you go to the website of lispworks, franz or lozure, they all have sections where they gloat about what people use their lisps for 20:32:10 *clozure 20:32:25 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-134-155.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:02 neither guitar chords nor tabs are implemented 20:33:02 however, it's not desperately difficult to implement whatever notational form you want 20:33:03 it just takes, y'know, a bit of work 20:34:03 Yeah, and the basic protocol is in place; just tell Gsharp about the duration, the size, and how to draw it, and it can deal with it. 20:34:42 beach: not right! i just interested in it, and my english isn't so good, and it's not easy for me to search something in english. i'm using GNU emacs now just recently, and i ask myself:"does lisp is using somewhere except emacs"; and join this channel 20:35:38 -!- passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:35:41 passwordoff: then the answer is "yes", it is used in many different places, including commerical and scientific. 20:35:51 oh well 20:36:42 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:37:20 though emacs lisp is, happily, largely restricted to emacs 20:38:41 Russians! 20:38:57 passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:39:14 Ah, you're back! 20:39:21 it's very unfortunate emacs is still using such a primitive graphics system. otherwise it would have been excellent to just dump a hacked emacs along for as client interface for whatever it is you are doing. :/ 20:39:36 passwordoff: I was just saying "then the answer is "yes", it is used in many different places, including commerical and scientific." 20:39:53 hypno: it is also very unfortunate that it uses that horrible language 20:40:04 hypno: That's what clim is for ;) 20:40:14 a web browser is probably a better universal client than emacs 20:40:49 hypno: I agree with schmx. CLIM is essentially about abstracting out a reasonable graphics layer from Emacs. 20:40:52 rsynnott: heh, well, agreed. i have high hopes for CCL tho. if they extend hemlock and make it all more modern, its gonna be great. :D 20:41:21 hypno: what is your problem with CLIM? 20:42:03 to be honest, i haven't tryied clim in years. i tryied it somewhere in 2002/2003 but it wasnt ready to be used as a cross-platform client interface for pretty much anything back then. 20:42:24 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-34-198.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:42:27 Krystof, so maybe a character or two at specific places shouldn't be too difificult to add , then! 20:42:29 hypno: I strongly advice you to think again. 20:42:40 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 20:42:46 hypno: Maybe you should try one of the commercial clims :) 20:42:49 beach: i'll both think and /try/ again. ;) 20:43:45 schmx: Nah, I would like hypno to contribute to McCLIM. 20:44:21 schmx: hmm. the commercial versions are great i presume? 20:44:27 beach: heh. 20:44:29 beach: Yes, me too :) 20:44:30 -!- Jstick [n=e@c-98-216-218-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:44:35 tic: Adding bindings from key sequences to commands is easy, if that's what you mean. 20:44:54 hypno: I haven't used 'em. But from what I understand they actually do both normal OS *and* microsoft. 20:45:13 hypno: I strongly suspect the commercial versions are not that much better than McCLIM. 20:45:37 beach, I'm not quite sure what I mean... I was thinking of sprinkling C, Am, Bm and similar combinations over the worksheet. 20:46:33 beach: mcclim is working and stable on windows? 20:46:38 you could do that hackily by just pretending that they're lyrics 20:46:39 tic: Well, figure out what you want and submit it here. I am sure we can determine what to do. 20:46:52 hypno: sure. (You might need an X server for your windows) 20:47:18 hypno: I don't know. I don't use Windows, and I frankly don't understand why anyone would want to. 20:47:53 beach: Lack of software on other platforms is my reason :) 20:47:56 beach: some people get very attached to the talking paperclip 20:48:16 :D 20:48:20 beach: well, neither do i (i'm even sceptical to linux these days when there is os x, mind you), but my customers are likely to use it, in which case i better adapt or loose money. 20:48:28 Your arguments are not going to make me switch any time soon. 20:49:09 are you just looking for a multi-platform UI thing? 20:49:11 sure, we need a talking paperclip for climacs 20:49:13 hypno: I am in the fortunate position to make the same amount of money every month no matter what OS I use. 20:49:30 "lose" 20:50:05 stassats: you're free to write on 20:50:10 rsynnott: preferably in lisp with ssl and multithreading (tho i can multiplex i guess otherwise), yes. it would make things a lot easier to communicate with my lisp based server process. :) 20:50:45 fe[nl]ix: i'm thinking on that 20:50:52 beach, I know what I want to do: translate web pages with chords into something more readable. :-) I just don't quite have the time to do it. E.g. http://www.azchords.com/o/orbisonroy-tabs-2909/indreams-tabs-191766.html 20:51:14 lichtblau's commonqt thing seems pretty good 20:51:16 though new 20:51:33 (and I'm not sure whether anyone's using in on win32) 20:52:21 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@68.58.88.241] has quit [] 20:52:49 tic: quite readable for me 20:52:57 tic: something like , maybe? 20:53:59 parse error! 20:54:03 oh, wait. 20:54:08 "user error" 20:54:11 hehe :) 20:54:25 -!- mle [n=emily@kuu.accela.net] has left #lisp 20:54:27 I'm not quite sure that's what I wanted, though. 20:54:38 I'm sure it's not. But it's Built With Gsharp Technology (tm) 20:54:40 or rather, that looks more like the definition of chords, I just want the chord itself. 20:54:52 You Too Can Build With Gsharp Technology 20:54:59 Krystof, fancy. a bit low-resolution though? (or maybe it's just blown up) 20:55:12 it's blown up so that users can shrink it and still have pretty graphics 20:55:16 o_O 20:55:27 I meant it looks blown-up from a smaller original. 20:55:35 it is not 20:55:36 mogunus [n=marco@wsip-70-184-14-138.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:57 well, it might be, kind of, but not really 20:55:58 just no antialiasing 20:55:59 Okay, it's just not AA'd. 20:56:06 yes. You get AA by shrinking it :-) 20:56:15 haha 20:56:21 it's like magic! 20:57:37 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 20:58:01 -!- passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:58:13 passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:59:07 schme [n=schme@c83-249-81-1.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:00:14 tic: I only see a picture of a guy, and lots of text. 21:00:52 Quetzalcoatl_ [n=godless@cpe-71-72-235-91.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:09 beach, above the text, there are strings of 1-3 char length. those are guitar chords. ;) 21:03:09 -!- theoffset [n=ismael@132.254.52.91] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:53 I don't see that 21:05:44 I mean, I see things like G7, etc mixed with lyrics, but I don't see your point. 21:06:22 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 21:06:49 -!- Beket [n=stathis@adsl-249-076.diodos.auth.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:07:19 But perhaps this was an example of what you want to translate as opposed to what you consider readable. 21:07:48 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 21:07:52 http://rvw.doc.gold.ac.uk/omras2/widgets/chord/G:7 21:08:24 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:25 Gsharp Inside 21:08:38 beach, indeed, that is what I would like to make easier to read, rather than how it should look. 21:08:45 Krystof: that must have been a breeze! 21:08:49 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 21:09:11 beach, note that it's not a big change -- it's still lyrics-with-chords-on-top, but it'd be nice to have it in a structured format. 21:09:24 tic: You need to be more explicit about that in the future if you want low-intelligence people like myself to understand. 21:09:27 beach: most of the work was getting it all to work "headless" 21:09:59 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.71.204] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:10:06 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.115.210.9] has joined #lisp 21:10:13 Krystof: what is meant by "headless" (I have some idea, but...)? 21:10:13 beach, meh! :) such talk is not allowed in #lisp. 21:10:47 tic: so ban me! 21:11:05 beach, :)) 21:11:18 beach: not displaying any windows, running all the necessary stuff through execute-frame-command, etc 21:11:35 my web toy had better not depend on having a display available 21:11:43 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:12:21 Krystof: I think I get the idea, but there might be Web-magic stuff I am not familiar with. 21:12:49 Krystof, you need a web frontend for McClim! 21:12:53 I do, yes 21:13:02 I even have the easy half of one 21:13:11 actually I have two easy halves of one 21:13:21 just the final 90% left, then? 21:13:25 [this is getting interesting] 21:13:26 notoriously, there was a web app in production use which crashed every time the windows server it lived on ran out of window handles; the developer had had it open message boxes every time the web user caused an error 21:13:29 hopefully I will have some time to work on the difficult half sometime 21:14:02 rsynnott, eek 21:14:08 (to be clear: I have strategy and code for all the drawing stuff; I have approximately 0 clue about good ways to do the event-handling stuff) 21:14:25 Krystof, the kids use AJAX 21:15:12 -!- schmx [n=marcus@c83-249-81-1.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15:14 Yes, I know that. How should the interaction be structured? Which library will best support the stuff that I will need? Are there flexible ways of migrating logic to the web client? 21:15:22 (message boxes on the server side, of course) 21:15:53 Krystof, *lallalala* 21:16:02 Krystof, the kids use AJAX! 21:16:12 does clim need to be extended so that applications can tell the backend about its preferred interaction mode to minimize round-trips? 21:16:14 etc 21:16:19 "the difficult half" 21:16:21 Krystof, but yeah, it sure a tricky issue. 21:16:36 and then you get to test on every major web browsser 21:16:41 it's probably not tricky if you know stuff; sadly, I am a web coder short of a project 21:16:46 which is suicide-inducing good fun 21:16:47 rsynnott: actually, no, I don't care about that 21:16:58 working on any one browser is enough 21:17:07 (bloody Microsoft went and released IE8 yesterday, just to annoy people) 21:17:12 ah 21:17:18 Krystof, you could start in both ends at once: find a library that's well-supported in all browsers, and find out if/what you need to modify in Clim. 21:17:53 you'd possibly nearly need to use something like comet 21:17:57 (server push) 21:18:12 -!- kpreid___ [n=kpreid@67.242.4.64] has quit [] 21:18:16 tic: I don't need metahelp: I don't need to know strategies for dealing with the difficult bits: I need answers for the stuff I don't know 21:18:24 or preferably code 21:18:35 -!- passwordoff [n=user@93-80-210-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:18:35 Krystof, sorry for degrading you. :/ I didn't mean to. 21:18:52 rsynnott: that's been mentioned to me before, I think 21:20:00 I'm disappointed that lispNYC didn't make gsoc this year. 21:20:24 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:36 mogunus: as am I. Was planning on applying with them, now I need to find something else to apply for :( 21:20:52 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:21:12 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:21:15 Yeah... Well, maybe they'll make it again in 2010. I still have a couple years left in school. 21:21:30 what were the projects? 21:21:44 which projects, tic? 21:22:21 This year? I don't know all of them, but there was something on adding probablistic methods to montezuma, which I would've loved to do. 21:23:32 I would have loved to pick up the Erlang-in-lisp project that Fare supervised last year (no idea how far that got, but nonetheless) 21:24:20 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 21:28:34 /window 14 21:28:53 14 ! 21:29:05 sorry :) 21:29:38 albino: I would be sorry too if I had 14 windows :) 21:29:57 anyone else do project euler problems in lisp? 21:30:17 schme: Actually I'm up to 23 right now 21:31:30 :O 21:31:48 Beket [n=stathis@ppp209-147.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:32:39 I've 25 21:32:59 *rsynnott* is lazy about closing PM windows, and leaves irssi running for months at a time 21:33:29 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 21:33:53 Well I'll go to bed then. 21:33:55 phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 21:33:57 good night #lisp :) 21:36:28 Jstick [n=jstick@c-98-216-218-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:47 night schme. 21:37:36 hey tic, im back and still cant define the function that removes duplicates... :( 21:38:00 we are using programming mode in acl2 so we cant even use REDUCE, they want us to define it the old school way 21:38:48 I think the easiest way is to make it recursive. 21:38:53 (reduce) 21:38:56 i cant seem to differntiate the cases of when the = car cadr and when (not (= (car) (cadr) 21:39:06 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:39:15 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:39:22 you cannot do =, like beach said previously it is for numbers. 21:39:50 well the expected input is numbers only in my "contract" 21:39:52 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 21:39:55 if that makes sense 21:41:29 passwordoff [n=user@93-80-243-36.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:41:31 like when i think about it in my head when car and cadr are equal or when they arent you do the same step which is to recurse on the cdr... i believe 21:41:31 emacs-dwim [n=user@cpe-74-71-13-156.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:33 mycroft|js [n=jfactor@pool-72-70-74-157.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:00 i mean cons car onto recursion of cdr 21:42:17 clhs format 21:42:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm 21:44:15 Jstick pasted "remove adjacent duplicate numbers" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77398 21:44:19 Jstick: the difference is in what you do after recursing. 21:45:02 nyef: I think the part that was stumping me is making the mapping from types to ptype happen. Starting a fresh build now (: 21:45:26 pkhuong: what exactly do you mean, if you have time did you see what i pasted 21:45:58 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0C98B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:06 org-mode for CLIM? 21:46:52 pkhuong: I think that might happen automatically if you don't need a numeric type or something like that. Not absolutely sure, though. 21:47:21 nyef: seems not. that's primitive-type-aux at the bottom of primtype. 21:47:31 Jstick: Once you implemented it using REDUCE you can very easily transform it into explicit recursion 21:47:55 Jstick: so, it the first and second element are different, you drop the first element? 21:48:37 no haha but that's what is happening obvisouly and for some reason i dont see it in my code 21:49:27 if i replace my else branch w/ cons car onto the recursion of cdr it doesnt work 21:49:29 Clearly, I'm going to have to go over the whole thing carefully. 21:49:46 FWIW, your inductive proof of correctness (the result doesn't contain adjacent duplicates) should guide the structure of your program. Otherwise, even if you manage to somehow create a program that seems to work, the proof that it does will be hell. But it seems your problem is more fundamental than that. 21:50:05 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [No route to host] 21:50:08 -!- vy [n=user@88.230.118.106] has left #lisp 21:50:18 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-182.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 21:50:52 yes, we aren't really dealing w/ proofs for this particular problem, just a fucntion 21:50:55 that works 21:51:06 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:51:27 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:43 there's also the problem that you take the first and second elements of a non-empty list. 21:52:10 why is that wrong? 21:52:24 sorry i am a beginner to lisp/acl2 21:52:58 Jstick: a non-empty list is only guaranteed to have at least 1 element. 21:53:03 nyef: yup, that was it (: 21:53:13 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:34 -!- passwordoff [n=user@93-80-243-36.broadband.corbina.ru] has left #lisp 21:54:00 oh right, i see what you are saying 21:54:32 -!- dwave [n=ask@062016247065.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 21:54:46 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E44C85.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:56:06 pkhuong: You mean I actually got it right? 21:56:09 Neat. 21:57:57 nyef: yup, not I `just' have to get the VOPs right, but that's the easy part. 21:58:04 I should document all the process. 22:00:05 pkhuong, what are you working on? 22:00:55 jewel_: sse intrinsics. 22:01:02 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0EF15.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:37 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@pool-71-162-111-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:49 -!- dialtone_ is now known as dialtone 22:02:57 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:03:24 clhs open 22:03:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_open.htm 22:03:54 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 22:04:07 hi luis 22:04:25 hello fe[nl]ix 22:05:01 jao [i=jao@dhcp-18-190-55-103.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 22:05:56 does sbcl use the processor's ability to check alignment of accesses? 22:08:58 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:12:29 yeah, that's what I forgot to tell SBCL about for stack allocated SSE values (: 22:14:31 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:17:55 does SBCL turn the checking on and off or is it always on? 22:19:08 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:26 I'm not sure what you mean, but SBCL leaves that sort of thing in the default state; I'm not sure it's even possible to change that in a user process. 22:19:45 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:21:35 -!- ejs [n=eugen@119-228-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:24:18 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:51 -!- blbrown_ [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:27:54 I got the impression from various things I read on the web that it needs to be turned off if you enter incompatible code (like glibc) 22:27:57 http://forum.soft32.com/linux2/Turn-x86-Alignment-Check-ftopict12003.html 22:30:49 jewel_: yeah, I thought you were referring to that; why would SBCL want to turn that on? That's an interop nightmare. 22:31:50 I thought it would help check that misaligned reads and writes weren't slowing things down 22:36:36 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:33 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp209-147.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:41:05 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:45:22 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:35 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250004.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:49:48 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:51:39 jfactor [n=jfactor@pool-72-70-65-230.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:26 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host106.190-139-136.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:53:19 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:19 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:53:21 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 22:53:53 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:55:59 heh, on some arches misalignement is a bug :D 22:56:09 -!- mogunus [n=marco@wsip-70-184-14-138.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:03 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCDC55.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:44 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-12438.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:01:29 Aren't unaligned accesses segfaults on most arches? 23:02:33 SeveredCross: only on RISCs 23:02:40 not on x86[-64]. 23:02:42 and it's separate fault from segfault 23:03:12 Oh, that's right. 23:03:25 for example, NetBSD will print it to a log and manually perform the access using proper method, then resume process 23:04:11 c|mell [n=cmell@x250016.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:05:05 -!- mycroft|js [n=jfactor@pool-72-70-74-157.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:05:29 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:06:34 Pegazus_ [n=awefawe@201.253.217.14] has joined #lisp 23:07:24 introducing misalignement faults on x86 would break everything.... :P 23:11:45 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-54.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:13:30 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@252.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 23:16:20 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-133-68.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:16:37 all that because SFMT looked easy to implement (: 23:17:14 -!- Jstick [n=jstick@c-98-216-218-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:17:32 -!- Pegazus [n=awefawe@201.253.217.14] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:18:47 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:14 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:46 -!- jao [i=jao@dhcp-18-190-55-103.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:35:34 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl4-6-13.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:36:19 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl4-6-13.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:36:28 diog3n3s [n=diog3n3s@97-118-148-234.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:23 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 23:37:58 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-140-99.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 23:38:16 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-1-102.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:38:39 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:07 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-140-99.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 23:39:23 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-140-99.vologda.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 23:40:10 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 23:41:32 jao [i=jao@dhcp-18-190-55-103.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 23:46:17 nurv101 [n=askmefor@81.193.6.13] has joined #lisp 23:46:43 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:47:19 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@81.193.6.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:49:36 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF09D71.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:49:38 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:53:40 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:07 doylent [n=doylent@host63-24-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:59:46 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:59:50 pkhuong: SFMT?