00:01:17 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 00:02:02 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:02:18 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:47 pkhuong: The HANDLER-CASE just has a single clause to handly that NO-INTERSECTION condition. It's the only condition my code (directly) SIGNALs. 00:03:16 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.169.24] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:03:49 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:03:58 mgr: and no recursive call to the function that sets up the handler? 00:05:00 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-47-203.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 00:05:04 pkhuong: no, that's the function with the main loops, it's only called a single time. 00:06:30 overdrive [n=user@client-81-105-53-198.popl.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:32 hi ppl 00:06:42 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:08:00 pkhuong: in each step it tries to intersect two bodies. The intersectino algorithm assumes that each call will actually find an intersection (so that the call will return the result). if at any time of the algorithm it's detected that there actually is no intersection of the two entities NO-INTERSECTION is signalled to get out of the call, and continue with different positions. 00:09:28 If that happens fairly often, passing a closure that does a RETURN might execute faster. 00:09:41 pkhuong: it's really just an outer HANDLER-CASE and the condition is only signalled in function within the HANDLER-BINDs scope. 00:09:44 but I don't understand how it can happen yet. 00:11:21 pkhuong: sorry 00:11:35 I am, rather. 00:11:51 pkhuong: hm, I'm thinking about that closure/return idea. I'm not quite sure how to do that. 00:12:33 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:13:11 (block foo (let ((return (lambda (some args...) (return-from foo (values some args ...))))) ...)) 00:13:28 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCC643.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:50 ...))))) .. )))) .. ).. ))) That should match the rest :) 00:13:57 For the lisp implementation I figured changing that aspect of the program isn't really justified (as it is a clean solution this way, with a nice control flow). In a reimplementation of the whole thing in Delphi/Object Pascal (*shudder*) I had to change it (as Delphi's condition system is way, way two slow for ordinary control flow. and it doesn't look nice. 00:14:09 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-241.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:15:15 pkhuong: If I'm not mistake I can only go back to the foo block from within it's lexical scope, right? not from a (not inlined) function that is called there. 00:15:39 mgr: the RETURN-FROM *is* in the BLOCK's lexical scope 00:15:47 I seem to remember to have played around with an alternative implementation using return-from 00:16:31 matley [n=matley@83.225.161.208] has joined #lisp 00:16:33 If the caller and the callee are fairly tightly coupled already, I'd use that instead of a condition. 00:16:51 sykopomp: there are not parantheses missing :) 00:17:15 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:17:27 mgr: yeah. My IRC paren-matches, too ;) 00:17:37 sykopomp: weakling, pfah. 00:18:04 pkhuong: ah, I've copied your snipplet to a lisp buffer and intended it properly. you are right! that's a neat idea! 00:18:10 pkhuong: One day, my juju will be strong. 00:18:58 pkhuong: I could pass that return around and call from somewhere else (-> closure, hence lexical scope). very nice indeed. I didn't think of that. 00:20:19 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:20:20 pkhuong: Now I'm curious how the lisp implementation would compare to the Delphi, once I change that asepect. :-) 00:20:56 mgr: I'm fairly certain that's how SBCL does it. You can use the same dx-flet trick to avoid consing a closure up, but much better would be to reuse it across calls. 00:21:58 mgr: if you need weirder control flow, you could also use TAGBODY/GO 00:22:21 pkhuong: you mean SBCL does that optimization of simple handler-cases alredy? 00:22:43 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0E743.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:44 ugh, tagbody! (though I have used it one single time IIRC) 00:23:06 hi Hans 00:23:33 (already) 00:23:58 mgr: what optimisation? I only meant that passing closures around is how condition handlers are implemented. 00:23:58 disumu_ [n=disumu@p54BCC643.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:07 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:24:11 ah, ok 00:24:52 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:21 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 00:26:12 *mgr* M-. sb-impl::dx-flet hmmhmm 00:26:39 Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 00:26:56 mgr: just a wrapper to work around the fact that DX closures aren't quite right so you have to ask for them explicitly. 00:27:05 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:34 dx = dynamic extent, I guess. 00:28:48 -!- bighouse [n=bighouse@bas1-montreal42-1177928216.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:29:02 right 00:30:03 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 00:30:24 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:32:02 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:35:02 pkhuong: uhm, in what way "not quite right?" 00:35:37 (if you have time to answer) 00:36:48 BUGS, #419 00:37:08 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCC643.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:16 I don't know what the handler looks like... I think that change might have been a bad idea in some cases 00:37:18 I'm hacking in lisp for five or six years now. But common lisp is large. 00:38:05 pkhuong: my hnadlers? I could put that part in a lisppaste 00:38:09 (handlers) 00:38:26 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:45 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-059-012-067.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 00:39:26 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-241.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:39:32 pkhuong: do you think that would help? 00:39:48 (thanks for the BUGS reference) 00:40:25 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0E743.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:09 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:05 saikat [n=saikat@dsl081-073-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:49 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["c YA"] 00:43:16 Is it possible to introspect a CLOS object? 00:43:29 inspect ? 00:43:46 i think i mean introspect... as in, get the class name from the object? 00:43:55 or get any type from any object, for that matter 00:43:58 yes :) 00:44:26 but ive forgotten all my clos :) 00:44:38 haha 00:45:13 mgr annotated #76433 "structure of the nesting of my HANDLER-CASE" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76433#1 00:45:31 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:47:17 saikat - (class-name (class-of obj)) 00:47:17 saikat: (class-name (class-of your-instance)) 00:47:26 rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:26 ah thanks a lot 00:47:28 ops 00:48:55 el_ermitanio [n=el_ermit@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 00:49:39 -!- karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:51:12 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:51:15 -!- ``Erik_ [n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org] has quit ["leaving"] 00:51:52 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 00:52:27 X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #lisp 00:55:11 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:55:25 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:48 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087FCD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:01:01 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:03:23 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:46 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:04:24 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:06:16 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.161.208] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:08:54 dihymo_ [n=dihymo@wsip-98-174-244-38.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:52 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:10:37 -!- el_ermitanio is now known as maxote 01:13:06 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:15:41 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:56 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 01:27:40 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:22 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:30:05 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:31:09 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:31:25 I have a problem with a constraint programming problem: I have a set of list containing only 1's and -1's (let's call it S). I need to find the set of the list which have at least n differences with each one of the lists of S. Now I do like that: I compute the domain of the lists which have at least n differences with one element of S, then I restrict the domain by applying the other constraint one by one. 01:31:37 but it is really slow 01:32:03 is there a better way to solve this problem? 01:32:21 maybe some tools for constraint programming in lisp 01:32:42 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@89.136.176.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:32:46 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:37:10 brilliant. So lispbuilder-sdl actually uses strings for paths, and it doesn't accept lisp pathnames at all. 01:37:13 pffffft 01:37:38 I'm sure that's easily fixed 01:37:59 cut it some slack, I got the impression the author didn't know CL very well at the time 01:38:08 heh 01:38:14 what gives you that impression? 01:38:39 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:38:55 joha1 [n=johan@fw1.ngigroup.com] has joined #lisp 01:40:00 gueux: sounds like a nice assignment. What prof gave you that? 01:42:16 Hi, I'm trying to annotate the type of a list: (declare (type (cons fixnum) my-list)) does not work when the list become Null. 01:43:41 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:43:53 -!- overdrive [n=user@client-81-105-53-198.popl.adsl.virgin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:44:00 vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has joined #lisp 01:44:01 yangsx: NIL isn't a CONS. 01:44:40 rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 01:44:49 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:46 pkhuong: thanks for the tip: that shoulde be (declare (type (or null (cons fixnum)) my-list)). 01:47:50 HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:55:27 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A08C1.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:02:29 sebell [n=sctb@adsl-71-135-109-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:45 :-) 02:03:06 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:03:09 pkhuong: it is for an assignment :-) 02:03:28 but the assignment is not about that at all :-) 02:04:11 -!- joha1 [n=johan@fw1.ngigroup.com] has left #lisp 02:05:08 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:08:07 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:13:59 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:17:54 freelab [n=freelab@58.63.91.129] has joined #lisp 02:18:03 -!- freelab [n=freelab@58.63.91.129] has quit [Client Quit] 02:21:02 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483D0D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:21:18 sulo__ [n=sulo@p57B4B304.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:23:16 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [] 02:25:00 HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:25:22 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-d7ab8a7a3c8c2ca7] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:28:09 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-241.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:28:41 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:31:55 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:33:01 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 02:33:17 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:43 parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:15 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:37:55 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B4D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:40:11 -!- saikat [n=saikat@dsl081-073-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [] 02:49:48 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:51:55 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-217.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 02:54:38 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-38.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:54:44 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 02:56:36 -!- deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:57:05 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:59:06 -!- sebell [n=sctb@adsl-71-135-109-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.90.1"] 03:05:05 cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #lisp 03:11:09 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:12:02 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["bbl"] 03:16:13 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:22 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:20:19 benny [n=benny@i577A0F4A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:25:53 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD9EE642B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:26:02 tetha [n=hk@pD9EE6F2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:38 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:28:08 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:29:50 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 03:31:13 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:31:44 deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 03:32:24 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:32:24 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:32:35 I am using the latest sbcl per clbuild, and trying to start the statistical profiler http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Statistical-Profiler.html#Statistical-Profiler However, when I (require :sb-sprof), it says "don't know how to require sb-prof) 03:33:54 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:00 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:37 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:35:25 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:36:36 deego - does your SBCL_HOME have sb-sprof ? 03:37:26 ah, that one works. thanks 03:38:28 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-190-59.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:53 mornin' 03:43:03 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 03:45:40 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 03:49:15 rudi_ [n=rudi@z118l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:36 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 03:49:46 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:49 KalifG [n=user@166.128.127.68] has joined #lisp 03:50:00 dgou [n=dgou@c-67-163-142-94.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:21 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:53:10 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:53 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.127.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:57:03 KalifG [n=user@166.128.127.68] has joined #lisp 03:59:34 -!- disumu_ [n=disumu@p54BCC643.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 04:01:53 chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:11 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.2] has joined #lisp 04:04:39 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:49 javuchi [n=javi@195.230.105.2] has joined #lisp 04:15:50 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:06 -!- gueux [n=g@d193-152-246.home3.cgocable.net] has quit ["leaving"] 04:18:02 what does the ',' character mean (comma)? 04:18:56 minion: clhs , 04:18:56 clhs: To look up a symbol in the HyperSpec, try saying "clhs symbol". For more information on the HyperSpec see http://www.cliki.net/CLHS . 04:18:59 no? 04:19:02 hmmm 04:19:09 clhs 2.4.7 04:19:21 minion: clhs 2.4.7 04:19:22 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 04:19:27 I couldn't remember the bot's name, thanks 04:19:30 cursed bot! 04:19:41 you can't torture bots 04:20:02 fisxoj: Basically it means "evaluate this". 04:20:19 you can't talk to them, either, but you can act analogously. 04:20:34 so.... (1+ ,(1+ 2)) is different from (1+ (1+ 2)) how? 04:20:43 or is that not a situation to use that in 04:20:47 the first is a syntax error. 04:21:06 it's for using inside backquote 04:21:07 , is the contrary of ' 04:21:55 `(one ,(+ 1 1) three) versus (list 'one (+ 1 1) 'three), '(one 2 three), `(one 2 three), etc. 04:21:57 I think I sorta get it... 04:22:48 I'm gonna go feed slime all of those and see if I can sort it out :) 04:22:49 fisxoj: `(+ 1 1) => (+ 1 1) `,(+ 1 1) => 2 (: 04:22:57 good plan! 04:22:59 minion: clhs 2.4.6 04:23:00 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 04:23:15 ayrnieu: you want specbot, not minion. 04:23:24 aaah 04:23:31 Where is specbot? 04:23:36 pkhuong - minion answered schmx 04:24:00 ayrnieu: It just told me to go look in the hyperspec ;) 04:24:02 minion seems to be quite stupid 04:24:04 -- oh, well, somehow I didn't read the answer he gave. 04:24:08 maybe its made in CL 04:24:08 ok... so, there are ` #' and ,? 04:24:18 -!- azanar [n=azanar@edm1a.mavericklabel.com] has quit [] 04:24:22 fisxoj: ' ` , 04:24:26 fisxoj - read 2.4.6 04:24:40 schmx: ` , ,@ ,. `# 04:25:01 who says C is cryptic? 04:25:16 javuchi: here's to that :P 04:25:49 well, `#() 04:26:05 haha, I'm not sure the hyperspec is helping 04:26:43 rlb3 [n=user@c-98-200-246-163.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:43 hyperspec never helps, it has got very hight attitude 04:26:44 read it carefully, ask questions at the REPL, ask questions here. 04:27:38 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:28:12 minion doesn't answer hyperspec queries, and specbot is AWOL 04:28:46 I just need to think up more things to write, for practice 04:28:54 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:29:05 I finally learned what the hell label does 04:29:50 fisxoj: good, in 25 years you can learn the entire CL ;) 04:30:43 i've been learning CL for the past 5 years and i think i don't know nothing 04:31:29 when you encounter that you have learnt enough lisp to be more productive than in other language, you discover that you have 50 or so.... 04:32:05 and then you dedicate you time to assinting newbies... so the cycle never ends... 04:32:21 good, ending cycles are boring :P 04:32:33 especially in recursive programming languages 04:32:54 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:33:04 yeah... i'm think if perhaps lisp is a black hole? 04:33:18 ;) 04:34:02 -!- jsoftw [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["home time"] 04:34:20 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:39:07 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.127.68] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:39:24 KalifG [n=user@166.128.127.68] has joined #lisp 04:39:51 -!- javuchi [n=javi@195.230.105.2] has left #lisp 04:40:10 wol [n=wol@c-76-126-164-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:13 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-243.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 04:43:55 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:48:56 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:49:22 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 04:51:10 -!- dgou [n=dgou@c-67-163-142-94.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:53:56 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-69.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:55:33 appletizer [i=user@82-33-193-218.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 04:56:41 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.2] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:00:20 Vichfret [n=Vicfred@189.228.203.21] has joined #lisp 05:01:16 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:01:31 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:04:03 -!- dihymo_ [n=dihymo@wsip-98-174-244-38.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:08:57 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:09:23 parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:30 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:20 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.39.253] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:21:47 freelab [n=freelab@58.63.91.129] has joined #lisp 05:24:38 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-69.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 05:24:48 -!- wol [n=wol@c-76-126-164-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:26:05 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:30:11 -!- rudi [n=rudi@z118l194.static.ctm.net] has quit ["Client exciting"] 05:31:43 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:33 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0E743.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 05:33:09 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:33:24 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:34:42 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:35:25 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:36:42 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:37:19 azanar [n=azanar@c-67-183-123-169.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:52 -!- jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:38:54 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-90.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:38:59 -!- runenes_ [n=runenes@77.18.72.194.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:39:34 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:39:42 jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:39:50 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@mue-88-130-90-054.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #lisp 05:44:02 hi, what's the right way to push a path onto clsql-sys:*foreign-library-search-paths* automatically when clsql is loaded? 05:47:06 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:59 When should I use car, cdr, and cadr, and when should I use first, rest, and second? 05:48:20 My file contains this statetment: (mapc #'(lambda (arg) (unintern arg) (import arg)) but the sbcl compiler says Compile-time error: 05:48:20 (LAMBDA (ARG) (UNINTERN ARG) (IMPORT ARG)) is not a legal function name. 05:48:41 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:49:14 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:50:08 Ah, it's a package issue.. I need to use lisp:lambda or such 05:51:07 :use "CL" 05:52:01 thanks 05:52:41 iaindalton: do you want to get the first element of a list or do you want to get the car of a cons cell? Are you operating on a list or a data structure made up of cons cells? 05:52:43 i think i mostly use car and cdr when i know i'm only dealing with a single cons, iaindalton (i want to think of it as a "pair") .. 05:54:01 So when I'm dealing with a one-dimensional list, first rest and second, else car cdr and cadr? 05:55:19 a list of lists is still a list. The words you use express how you think of the data, so pick the more useful way to think about it. 05:55:28 OK 05:55:44 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-241.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Success] 05:55:53 parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:08 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:00:20 Why does slime-compile-defun allow me to call the current function from the REPL but slime-compile-file doesn't? 06:01:45 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:02:45 joha1 [n=johan@fw1.ngigroup.com] has joined #lisp 06:06:18 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@mue-88-130-90-054.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:06:51 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@mue-88-130-90-054.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #lisp 06:07:41 iaindalton: because you want to compile and load the file 06:08:10 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:08:23 hi lispers .... 06:10:47 Hello, Mifter! 06:12:18 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 06:14:13 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:19:26 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:15 Does SLIME have a key to read eval and print the current buffer? 06:21:17 woopdeedoo [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:48 -!- freelab [n=freelab@58.63.91.129] has quit ["My God! Gone..."] 06:22:23 where do you want it to print to? 06:22:57 (slime-eval-print (buffer-string)) 06:22:59 The SLIME REPL, I suppose. 06:24:31 When I edit Python, I can call up a REPL with a key chord and fool with any of the functions and data defined in the buffer. Does SLIME have something like that bound to a key chord? 06:25:03 iaindalton: you're always in the same image, whether you're editing code in a bufffer or at the REPL. 06:25:13 Just switch to the REPL. 06:25:36 -!- joha1 [n=johan@fw1.ngigroup.com] has left #lisp 06:26:01 pkhuong: But if I define functions foo, bar, and baz in a random buffer, I can't call them in the REPL until I C-c C-c each function. 06:26:25 C-c C-k to compile and load the buffer. 06:26:50 C-c C-c (slime-compile-function) makes SLIME `aware' of the function, but C-c M-k doesn't do the same for the whole file. 06:27:00 Oh, C-c C-k? I'll try that. 06:27:52 iaindalton: again, you want to compile *and load* the file. 06:28:30 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:32:24 Looks like C-c C-l is most analogous to what I'm used to 06:33:34 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-191-168.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:55 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:35:05 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:37:10 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:38:01 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:39:17 -!- X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:41:17 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-190-59.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:51:02 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 06:53:45 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:02 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 06:57:17 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:54 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 07:02:05 ASau` [n=user@host121-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:03:03 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.224.70] has joined #lisp 07:03:04 splittist [n=dmurray@188-234.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:03:07 morning 07:03:27 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:04:07 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:04:48 Hi splittist. 07:05:07 wozzup Aankhen``? 07:05:31 Nothing interesting, unfortunately. What about yourself? 07:07:26 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 07:08:24 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 07:08:25 Just work. But trying to get excited about ILC. Which of course makes me reflect on how little Lisp I've done in the last 24 months... 07:11:28 Is there any sane way to switch to another package temporarily? 07:11:33 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.87] has joined #lisp 07:11:43 ASau`: what do you mean? 07:12:02 I mean that I want a form to restore *package* on exit. 07:12:28 In what context? 07:12:32 (in-package :new) (defun ...) (in-package :previous) 07:12:49 Why do you need that? 07:13:13 I need to redefine a function or two. %] 07:14:31 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:14:40 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:14:41 (defun new::foo (..) ...) 07:15:20 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:15:32 Damn. 07:15:35 ayrnieu: thanks. 07:15:44 *ASau`* needs tea. 07:15:50 hello lispers 07:16:45 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 07:19:12 _8david` [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:19:19 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:17 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 07:20:26 Would (eval-when (:execute :load-toplevel :compile-toplevel) (let ((*package* (find-package :new-package))) (defun foo () ...)) have the same effect? 07:21:11 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:21:24 Aankhen``: the (defun foo...) has already been read by the time *package* has been rebound. 07:22:30 Protect it by "eval"? 07:23:03 pkhuong: Ah, okay. 07:23:14 ASau`: still read before the eval. 07:23:24 *Aankhen``* kinda forgot that. 07:23:43 ood morning. 07:23:46 (eval (quote (defun ...)))?? 07:24:13 As long as there are symbols involved, they're going to be read first 07:24:28 Okay, that was an incoherent sentence. 07:24:30 *Aankhen``* shuts up. 07:24:53 Ah, alright. 07:27:06 .oO(Lisp needs globally accessible stack. Better two of them.) 07:29:21 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:50 -!- azanar [n=azanar@c-67-183-123-169.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:33:06 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:33:22 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:46 good morning 07:34:24 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:34:30 morning mvilleneuve 07:34:30 -!- _8david [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:36:03 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:36:24 ayrnieu pasted "with-package" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76451 07:37:50 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:40:30 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@mue-88-130-90-054.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:50 ayrnieu: fails on symbols imported in the new package. 07:48:19 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@151.204.133.189] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:48:38 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:51:46 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 07:51:53 it overwrites them! This is undesirable. 07:52:10 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:54 ayrnieu: it also fails on #(a b c) and other literal object syntax (or #.) 07:55:17 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@p508EF026.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:19 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:55:44 yeah, imported symbols can be handled, but fighting the reader is too much for a bad idea. 07:56:57 thanks for your critical reading :-) 08:03:35 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:05:01 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:06:27 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-90.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 08:06:35 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-90.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:09:21 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:06 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@p508EF026.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 08:14:40 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 08:17:35 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D7BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:44 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 08:20:22 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-133-189.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:22 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:21:09 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:21:39 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:49 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 08:24:11 Any clue what could this be: 08:24:19 "*** - PARSE-NAMESTRING: syntax error in filename "/home/asau/**/*" at position 0" 08:24:58 asdf-install fails on araneida for me on two systems and in different way. 08:26:23 -!- woopdeedoo [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:26:46 how did you tell ASDF about "/home/asau/**/*" ? 08:27:50 (pushnew (logical-pathname "ls:local;asdf;") asdf:*central-registry*) 08:28:20 (setf (logical-pathname-translations "ls") `(("**;*.*.*" "/home/asau/**/*"))) 08:30:25 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 08:30:41 -!- younder [n=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:33:37 *shrug*, it seems that a bug in asdf-install has a problem with it. 08:34:48 you might try clbuild 08:35:51 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:52 good morning 08:36:21 *ayrnieu* & bed 08:36:38 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:36:51 <_8david`> araneida isn't in clbuild 08:37:17 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D7BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:37:55 <_8david`> IIANM, only two or three people in the world are insane enough to run araneida anyway. 08:40:09 Alright. 08:40:43 I'll return when there IS working HTTP server out of box. 08:42:25 hutchentoot. 08:43:32 It doesn't work. 08:43:37 <_8david`> of all the web servers written in CL, you want the most outdated one, want it on clisp, with logical pathnames, and it must be installed through asdf-install? I think you should check your requirements. 08:43:43 As for clbuild, I've just looked at it. 08:43:54 I doubt it works at all. 08:43:56 clhs hunchentoot 08:44:04 minion: hunchentoot 08:44:05 hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a web server written in Common Lisp and at the same time a toolkit for building dynamic websites. http://www.cliki.net/hunchentoot 08:44:20 ayrnieu: I have looked at it too. 08:44:36 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:44:54 Hello 08:45:13 I have no time to fix anything, I need working solution as fast as possible. 08:45:20 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.248.90] has joined #lisp 08:45:27 Sorry guys. 08:45:29 ASau, how much you paying? 08:45:30 Next time. 08:46:08 Even python and perl give me better chances to accomplish. 08:47:50 ASau`: why not use them, then? 08:48:12 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:17 ASau has already indicated that he intends to do something like this. 08:48:23 I had some time for research. 08:49:22 Is it a convention that functions ending in p should only return t for true? 08:49:22 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:49:30 In CL, that is 08:49:50 t means true in CL, so yes .. they tend to return either T or NIL 08:50:19 But it's not frowned upon to return something more informative than t? 08:50:38 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:51:12 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:51:30 i don't think so .. i sometimes return NIL for, well, negative or false .. and something else than T (it still "means the same" as T or true in a test), say, a number or something .. 08:51:45 OK 08:52:26 I wondered because I notice that member is often used as a predicate but it doesn't return T and doesn't end in P 08:52:40 lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 08:53:09 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:53:57 yeah, (if (member nil (list 1 nil)) t nil) => t .. since it returns a "tail" or nil 08:54:31 (the "tail" being (nil)) 08:55:38 mega1 [n=mega@3e70c991.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:59:25 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 09:00:56 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.243.213] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:06:56 meh. can't install lisppaste-2.3 : 09:06:58 :/ 09:08:27 Another style question: in C-like languages, testing for falsity is usually done as if (!x) {...} else {...}. Do Lispers use the equivalent, (if (not x) (...) (...))? 09:09:23 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:10:18 psyllo [n=psyllo@216-160-225-38.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:24 <_8david`> I'd regard if (!x) {...} else {...} as bad style in C, unless it is followed by "else if". 09:10:31 <_8david`> if (!x) {...} would be (unless x ...) in Lisp. 09:10:55 <_8david`> if (!x) {...} else if (b) {...} else if (c) {...} would be (cond ((not x) ...) (b ...) (c ...)) in Lisp. 09:11:05 I'm simplifying. I meant the else if variety. 09:11:16 OK 09:11:38 <_8david`> right. (not x) is fine then, I'd just switch to COND for less nesting. 09:12:05 I just came in but I think one factor to consider would be the real name of x or what it means to be !x. In other words, is does !x read easier for some reason. 09:12:16 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 09:13:24 <_8david`> I agree, for example in (!strcmp(...)) { ... } 09:14:50 (set-macro-character #\! (lambda (stream char) `(not ,(read stream t nil t)))) 09:14:52 If !x is the most common case and the corresponding clause is much shorter, it may be easier to read too. 09:15:03 Yes, just as in English one can phrase something in the positive or negative, and sometimes one sounds better than the other. 09:15:05 (To have if (!x) {...} else {...}) 09:15:49 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 09:15:59 Good Afternoon 09:16:37 *Maddas* is a little disappointed to find out that he won't be able to attend the ILC (scheduling conflicts) 09:20:48 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 09:25:30 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 09:26:01 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:26:43 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:28:39 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 09:29:17 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 09:34:52 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:37:06 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:38:10 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:41:37 I've added (lambda () (paredit-mode +1)) to slime-repl-mode's mode-hook, but I don't have paredit mode in SLIME. Am I doing something wrong? 09:43:03 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:04 <_8david`> I don't use paredit, but are you in buffer *slime-repl foo* or *inferior-lisp*? 09:51:56 *slime-repl foo* 09:52:09 <_8david`> okay, no idea then 09:52:17 I don't know what inferior-lisp is for. 09:54:02 can be handy if the lisp explodes 09:54:08 otherwise, not so much 09:54:19 Oh dear, I don't think I quite like the sound of that 09:55:42 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:36 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 09:58:10 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 10:00:43 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:02:14 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit ["BORK BORK BORK"] 10:02:26 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 10:05:58 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.87] has quit [Success] 10:07:19 lyte [n=lyte@60-242-109-30.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:07:41 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 10:08:05 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 10:08:10 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:09:33 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:13:23 -!- jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:22:16 -!- jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:25:12 iaindalton: if you want paredit in lisp buffer, you need to activate it in lisp-mode-hook 10:28:10 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:34:19 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-33-193-218.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [] 10:34:54 deliana [n=deliana@147.210.246.189] has joined #lisp 10:42:49 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0F4A.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:43:13 benny [n=benny@i577A0F4A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:48:14 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-90.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:50:24 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl064.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 10:52:05 G'day everyone! 10:53:19 hello spiaggia 10:53:25 hi, spiaggia 10:56:21 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BB9D9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:56:33 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 10:56:57 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0E743.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:34 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:33 What's more correct "reader macro" or "read macro"? 11:00:50 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 11:00:58 Happy birthday! 11:01:02 reader macro. 11:01:14 psyllo: clhs has a glossary. 11:01:26 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:02:25 matimago: Thanks. 11:02:43 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:33 matimago: On http://paste.lisp.org/display/75921 it says "read macro". Is the used correctly in that context? 11:05:52 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:06:33 hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442383.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:07:28 cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:11:09 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93.40.119.116] has joined #lisp 11:11:26 frodef [n=ffj@69.80-202-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:11:29 -!- frodef [n=ffj@69.80-202-88.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 11:11:41 frodef [n=ffj@69.80-202-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:14:43 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279441018.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:17:30 LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:20:42 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 11:21:29 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.224.70] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:22:08 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:22:50 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 11:29:13 yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:32:51 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:17 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@188-234.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:35:17 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.130.106] has joined #lisp 11:36:20 Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-2-62.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:37:38 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 11:38:49 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-089-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:39 -!- yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:39:44 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:03 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 11:45:10 ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 11:45:50 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:46:04 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:47:08 -!- cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:47:48 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 11:47:53 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:48:15 Soulman [n=kae@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:48:24 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 11:49:21 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.127.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:49:46 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:47 KalifG [n=user@166.128.127.68] has joined #lisp 11:58:34 c|mell [n=cmell@x250015.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:58:41 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 11:58:48 good evening folks 11:58:55 hello adityo 11:59:03 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 11:59:33 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:57 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 12:00:21 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:41 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-089-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:01:18 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:01:37 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:03:29 toddoon [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:00 need some help..has anyone used cl-xmpp 12:06:09 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:06:16 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E1AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:21 xmpp:auth takes connection username password and resource as params 12:06:46 what does resource signify.. 12:07:48 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:08:29 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:30 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 12:15:06 -!- lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 12:17:57 adityo: In my experience, resource with xmpp is usually the name of the client 12:18:36 adityo: for instance, when I used gaim, the resource would show up as gaim...kind of like the agent identifier that web browsers use 12:18:49 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:20:02 thanks KalifG, let me give it a try! 12:20:05 adityo: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3920.txt 12:20:56 <_8david`> I 12:21:17 hnr [n=henry@62.49.66.13] has joined #lisp 12:21:22 adityo: section 3.4 has more info on what it's for 12:21:45 adityo: you're welcome! 12:21:45 adityo: and it's optional according to the RFC 12:22:46 <_8david`> I usually start a normal IM client that has built-in dialogs for the various XMPP servers to check what options for that server map to in a general XMPP configuration. 12:23:01 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:23:11 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:45 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:24:38 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:52 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:28:33 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:28:39 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:29:13 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D7BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:31 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:33:22 -!- psyllo [n=psyllo@216-160-225-38.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:37:57 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-26-125.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 12:43:33 -!- rlb3 [n=user@c-98-200-246-163.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:44:32 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:02 the resource is useful because it elegantly solves the problem where a connection gets dropped/reconnected instead of gracefully closed 12:53:35 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:54:33 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:17 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:57:07 FZ [n=user@unaffiliated/fz] has joined #lisp 12:59:19 huyphu [n=nguyenhu@58.186.250.66] has joined #lisp 12:59:52 -!- huyphu [n=nguyenhu@58.186.250.66] has left #lisp 13:02:58 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-47-203.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:01 G'morning all. 13:03:08 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:03:18 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 13:03:52 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-26-125.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:04:15 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 13:05:20 hello nyef 13:07:49 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:08:03 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:33 CrazyEddy [n=infelici@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:10:40 (query (:select 'pg_attribute.attname 'pg_type.typname .....) :alists) any Postmodern users here? .. i've forgotten how to do the AS or alias thing .. i'd like for the result columns to have the names 'name' and 'type' 13:18:06 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:20:22 (:select (:as 'pg_attribute.attname 'name) :from .....) 13:20:57 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:23:42 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 13:24:16 -!- anekos [n=anekos@pl608.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:26:20 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:27:17 anekos [n=anekos@pl476.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:30:00 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:30:08 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-26-125.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 13:33:02 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:33:27 ah, nokia have released that LGPL QT, finally 13:34:42 all we need is a lisp bindings 13:35:17 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:36:39 indeed 13:36:46 in glorious C++ (oh, dear) 13:37:30 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:42:44 valvola` [n=fabiovio@193.204.78.80] has joined #lisp 13:44:41 does qt still use the "slots" language extension and preprocessor? that'd be extra fun 13:45:13 it does 13:45:39 <_8david`> IIUC, the moc preprocessor makes things much easier, because it gives higher-lever languages the introspection abilities they need to interface with the C++ objects easily. 13:48:07 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:57 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1FE16.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:05 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1E993.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:01:27 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.127.68] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:02:00 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:03:31 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:42 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:04:02 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 14:04:15 I've downloaded a lisp package, extracted it, contains a bunch of .lisp files and one .asd file. I tried to (load) the .asd file, then the other lisp files, but they complain about missing functions, etc. any idea what I'm doing wrong? 14:05:14 loading .asd files with load 14:05:17 You're not using asdf. 14:05:31 minion: asdf? 14:05:31 asdf: asdf is Another System Definition Facility. http://www.cliki.net/asdf 14:07:08 alright, thank you. 14:07:18 photon: basically: (pushnew #P"/path/to/the/directory/where/your/.asd/file/lies/" asdf:*central-registry*) (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :your-system) ; for a system asd file named your-system.asd 14:07:50 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 14:08:44 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:11:08 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:15:10 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 14:17:28 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:17:31 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 14:19:02 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:19:25 splittist [n=dmurray@9-111.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 14:19:28 re 14:20:08 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 14:27:46 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93.40.119.116] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:28:33 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 14:30:09 gilberth [n=gilbert@c149015.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:12 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:37 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D7BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! You will assist us!"] 14:50:09 -!- Kenjin_ is now known as Kenjin 14:51:33 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 14:54:22 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:57:51 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-12-79.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:50 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:02:47 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 15:03:21 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has left #lisp 15:08:33 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:08:58 -!- vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:09:28 vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has joined #lisp 15:10:04 dabd [n=dabd@85.139.99.131] has joined #lisp 15:14:03 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:15:24 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AD6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:51 -!- ASau` [n=user@host121-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off"] 15:18:42 -!- pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:19:38 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.130.106] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:20:08 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:20:21 heow [n=user@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:32 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:23:12 kimkhanh [n=dkcnhq27@115.74.82.26] has joined #lisp 15:24:57 pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has joined #lisp 15:26:02 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 15:26:08 -!- kimkhanh [n=dkcnhq27@115.74.82.26] has quit [Client Quit] 15:26:12 kimkhanh [n=dkcnhq27@115.74.82.26] has joined #lisp 15:27:07 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:06 -!- valvola` [n=fabiovio@193.204.78.80] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:29:05 WhoIAm [n=qwerty@222.253.75.37] has joined #lisp 15:33:02 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 15:33:33 LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:33:33 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:34:11 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 15:34:15 PUF-huyphu [n=nguyenhu@115.73.53.29] has joined #lisp 15:34:48 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:35:47 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 15:35:57 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:00 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 15:37:44 knobo [n=user@148.122.202.247] has joined #lisp 15:38:19 Is threre any simple way to debug all symbols in a package, that was not imported from other packages? 15:38:34 debug? 15:38:49 sorry, trace 15:39:19 so, it should not be symbols, but functions 15:40:27 knobo: with ccl, you can trace a package. 15:40:34 knobo: (trace "FOO-BAR") 15:40:45 knobo: i think that sbcl has something similar or identical. 15:40:52 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:58 (defun what-you-want-p (x) (and (symbolp x) (fboundp x) (member x (package-exported-symbols p1)) (notany (lambda (p) (member x (package-exported-symbols p))) (remove p1 (list-all-packages))))) 15:40:59 (loop for symbol being the present-symbol in '#:cl-user when (fboundp symbol) (trace symbol)) 15:41:38 <_death> hmm.. more like (eval `(trace ,symbol)) 15:42:08 s/package-exported-symbols/package:package-exports/ from http://darcs.informatimago.com/lisp/common-lisp/package.lisp 15:42:37 and + DO 15:42:46 well, no, this is not exactly what you want. Sorry. 15:43:09 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:19 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A542.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:44:47 Maybe it had been asked before but... Why is sbcl.core file that huge, 40MB? 15:45:03 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:45:04 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 15:45:22 knobo: I think it's not possible. There's no way to know that a given symbol "has been imported from another package". 15:45:23 because it has everything in it 15:46:02 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:46:03 antgreen1 [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:05 matimago: Note that an approximation might be to see if the home-package of a symbol is not the same package. 15:46:57 (nth-value 1 (find-symbol "DEFUN")) => :INHERITED 15:48:04 stassats: In which sense? JVM is nearly of that size too. 15:48:22 vy: does jvm have compiler in it? 15:49:00 stassats: With compiler it's about ~70Megs with thousands of libraries, UI stuff, etc. 15:49:03 stassats: possibly, but it wouldn't be called a "compiler". 15:49:18 matimago: besides jit 15:49:42 stassats: Don't get me wrong, I don't want to compare apples and oranges. But I just wonder abot details... 15:49:42 nyef: I think it's good enough for my use. 15:49:59 stassats: JVM <==> "Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q6600" 15:50:16 stassats: usually, the compilers are not hidden inside the processors... 15:50:59 matimago: jvm has jit for that, i believe 15:51:33 vy: everything included with a lot of metadata for introspection and debugging. 15:51:39 jit is like a microcode optimizer. Not really a compiler. 15:52:23 jit is only half a compiler. The bytecode is fairly low-level, thus the translation that has to be done is almost a 1-1 mapping. 15:54:03 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:54:43 Not with modern optimizing JITs, but that's annother matter. 15:55:59 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-7.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:01:33 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:03:46 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:03:48 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:04:44 LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:05:29 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:05:41 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:06:07 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:06:50 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9D9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:07:16 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.224.70] has joined #lisp 16:09:08 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:12:21 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 16:12:46 -!- kimkhanh [n=dkcnhq27@115.74.82.26] has left #lisp 16:16:09 -!- FZ [n=user@unaffiliated/fz] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:26:57 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@mue-88-130-90-054.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #lisp 16:27:04 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:27:06 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:27:27 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:56 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:28:05 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp100.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 16:30:13 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-26-125.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:32:50 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:13 -!- PUF-huyphu [n=nguyenhu@115.73.53.29] has left #lisp 16:34:49 -!- WhoIAm [n=qwerty@222.253.75.37] has left #lisp 16:35:27 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:40:05 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:40:33 td123 [n=tom@isr6699.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:40:35 does anyone know if lisp has any advantages to other languages for ai (i'm not talking about including extra libraries) 16:41:43 Nothing AI-specific that I can think of. 16:43:19 Don't be silly. Lisp has been invented to make AI possible. 16:43:33 pkhuong: I might try it, maybe over the weekend or something. 16:43:38 minion: tell td123 about PAIP 16:43:38 td123: direct your attention towards PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 16:43:54 matimago: http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 16:43:59 oops, sorry 16:44:18 willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:44:48 ty for the link 16:45:33 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 16:46:12 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:49:55 -!- hnr [n=henry@62.49.66.13] has quit [] 16:54:05 robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:10 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:55:22 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-183-198.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:55:33 hello, what happend hunchentoot:maybe-invoke-debugger? How can i drop into the debugger now? 16:57:10 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 16:57:17 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:00:03 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:00:24 ^authent1c [n=authenti@85-127-183-226.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:02:47 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:03:48 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:56 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:05:22 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:07:26 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:07:28 -!- ^authent1c is now known as authentic 17:07:34 parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:07 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:08:47 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 17:10:39 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x3ec6d1bc.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:13:34 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:15:24 milanj [n=milan@93.86.115.26] has joined #lisp 17:15:33 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:15:37 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:16:28 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:19:07 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:20:40 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:22:31 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit ["Am I missing an eyebrow?"] 17:25:43 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:58 jewel [n=jewel@iburst-41-213-48-245.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:29:58 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 17:30:25 where can i find a comprehensive list of all format-directives ``format'' supports? 17:30:49 In the hyperspec. 17:30:50 clhs 22.3 17:31:02 ok thank you 17:32:57 A rather general question: I'm trying to get cl-openid to work, yet the initiate-authentication function fails. Checking the logs, it seems to fail by Name service error in "getaddrinfo": -5 (No address associated with hostname). This is a local development machine, is there a way to make that not fail? (or should I ask on #gentoo (or other channel)?) 17:34:17 madnificent: it looks like you can't resolve the machine address... 17:34:23  17:35:09 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 17:35:47 p_l: using localhost here... I don't know how to make it believe it has an address (or perhaps openid doesn't work when called from localhost... (could be)) 17:36:49 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:37:31 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 17:38:15 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:40:11 no, doesn't work if I use a dns service either 17:44:20 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:47:33 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:57 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:52:53 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:53:34 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 17:53:45 Greetings! 17:55:45 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-208-199.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 17:55:46 greetings tmh 18:00:44 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 18:01:55 'allo 18:02:25 tmh pasted "Equal Significant Figures" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76471 18:02:57 madnificent: try using the hosts file. 18:03:21 So, I set out on Monday morning to put together a function for establishing that 2 floating point numbers have equal significant figures. I expected to be done by noon on Monday. 18:03:53 I wanted this for some unit testing. My solution is in the paste. Funny how trivial things can suck up so much time. 18:04:07 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:25 Fade: what should I put in it? 18:04:41 Fade: it recognises localhost, but that didn't work either... 18:04:48 a host entry for the ip address the system is trying to get through gethostbyname. 18:05:02 yet, it had that for localhost... 18:05:16 openid may be looking for a specific system. 18:05:31 although I've never used the system, so it's just a guess. 18:05:37 oh, add an entry for claimid, that could work! 18:05:42 lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:06:01 It will take a second, I'm trying all sorts of stuff right now :P 18:07:21 photon_ [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 18:11:27 Good evening everyone. 18:11:38 -!- heow [n=user@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has left #lisp 18:11:39 Hello beach. 18:11:47 hello beach 18:11:57 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:13:36 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 18:13:54 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 18:15:31 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [Client Quit] 18:15:35 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 18:15:41 strange, the error doesn't seem to show when using getaddrinfo in c... o_O 18:16:02 crod [n=cmell@x250011.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 18:16:54 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 18:17:21 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@9-111.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["I go to brave the rain..."] 18:18:35 appletizer [i=user@82-33-193-218.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:20:48 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250015.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:21:46 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:25:23 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:28:24 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:28:25 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:29:29 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:47 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.52.238] has joined #lisp 18:33:48 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:39:42 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:00 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-33-193-218.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:40:12 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-138-110.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:40:13 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-138-110.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:41:04 good morning lispniks 18:41:16 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:42:07 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 18:43:29 drewc: good evening 18:43:54 ... Oh. I suppose it is still morning on that side of the continent. 18:43:58 Hello drewc 18:46:50 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:47:08 anything new and exciting? 18:47:10 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:29 I'm finally understanding something of Alpha architecture. 18:48:25 and everyone releases Beta hardware :P 18:50:30 appletizer [i=user@82-33-193-218.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:50:36 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:50:36 That would actually be pretty cool, having a good sequel to the Alpha. 18:50:36 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:53 nyef: What is your motivation for studying the Alpha architecture? 18:51:04 tmh: I'm thinking about writing an emulator. 18:52:11 Ahh. I have a copy of the personal edition of Tru64 that I was never able to run on my Alpha because it had the incorrect SRM console. If you get an emulator running, I'd love to be able to run Tru64. 18:53:14 there's open source es40 emulator 18:53:36 p_l: Really, I'll have to look for that. 18:53:37 dunno if it boots Tru64, it boots OpenVMS but not everything works and sometimes stuff fails 18:53:55 es40 looks like an interesting combination of overbuilt and underbuilt. 18:54:29 nyef: es40? 18:54:48 nyef: You mean the machine or emulator? 18:54:55 The emulator. 18:55:24 It's written in C++, it's reported to have threading problems, and there's been no signs of life for the past... 11 months? 18:56:04 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-f7909206405d8c78] has joined #lisp 18:56:04 nyef: yeah 18:56:36 -!- dysinger is now known as teh_idiot 18:57:55 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@CMU-221270.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:00:29 -!- teh_idiot is now known as dysinger 19:00:47 anyway, Alpha was quite nice. I wish someone resurrected it - afaik there's even a project on opencores that tries to recreate it 19:02:04 p_l: Alpha died and came back on the third day as Opteron. 19:02:10 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 19:02:14 I want opengenera :< 19:02:20 pkhuong: Then where is my PALcode? 19:02:26 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:06 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 19:03:09 Bootvis [n=brj@g37065.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:03:09 p_l: Isn't it called "SMM" these days? 19:03:16 you can get opengenera via vlm emulator 19:03:32 xristos: We know. Entirely not what we're talking about. 19:03:51 nyef: Nope, it isn't. SMM is just a "fuck you I'm wrestling control away from you" mode for BIOS or evil "trusted" firmware 19:04:23 Anyway, the Alpha startup process is really screwy. 19:04:48 why? 19:05:20 Load the Icache contents from a serial ROM and start executing? 19:05:32 quite good thing :) 19:05:42 *p_l* loved having a serial port on CPU 19:05:55 Yeah, until you can't get the ROM images. 19:06:08 nyef: SROM is built-in inside cpu 19:06:47 and you don't need it for emulator 19:06:50 -!- jewel [n=jewel@iburst-41-213-48-245.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:07:02 Possibly not, but I like having a full collection. 19:07:18 i've long wished that somebody would take on an alpha core at opencores.org 19:07:21 Fortunately, it's apparently updatable via firmware update software, so... 19:07:25 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:44 nyef: SROM afaik had 3 functions: self-check of CPU, initialization of memory and transferring control to platform firmware 19:10:00 nyef: I have an alpha that i might be able to put up in a rack, if you need access to one. 19:10:06 ah, the wonderful old large expensive computer tradition of having to plug serial cables into random things 19:10:22 (some sun servers had to be configured via serial port until at least 2005) 19:10:48 configuring sun/sparc gear over serial is superior to other methods even now! 19:11:28 rsynnott: SROM included a debugger that talked over serial port. How many platforms allow you to debug a cpu board in which memory controller had fried? :) 19:11:45 :D 19:12:08 the serial port was there simply "just in case you really need a bootstrap debug" :-) 19:12:11 I want my sbcl to exit upon any errors, to enable batching. I do so by setting *debugger-hook* to #'(lambda (&rest args) (quit))), but this means that the errors don't even get printed. Is there a better way? 19:12:22 .. so I can at least know what the error was .. 19:12:44 This is a custom core 19:12:46 print it before you call quit? 19:13:35 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 19:13:36 (handler-case (my-program) (t (e) (format t "Error! ~A"))) or similar? 19:13:45 sbcl --disable-debugger 19:14:06 Thanks everyone 19:14:29 or (sb-ext:disable-debugger) if you prefer to do it programatically 19:15:07 Thanks jsnell 19:15:23 And there's of course the special trick to disabling ldb without disabling the debugger in the core. 19:16:42 (Useful when you usually don't end up in the debugger unless an operator is at the console, but you would rather have the process disappear than end up in ldb.) 19:18:09 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-7.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:19:04 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x3ec6d1bc.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:20:03 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:21:05 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:21:26 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:22:15 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-176-79.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 19:23:51 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@mue-88-130-90-054.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:24:06 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:24:21 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 19:28:51 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-118-106.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:29:25 beach: Hi there. 19:29:53 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:31:48 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 19:32:22 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:27 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:33:07 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:33:11 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.224.70] has quit [" "I'm from Iceland" "Nono, Ireland!" "Uhm.. no... Iceland.." "Oh that made up place! You from Ireland!""] 19:33:27 i wonder if there is a format-directive to parametrize other format-directives 19:33:59 clhs ~v 19:34:05 Was it v? 19:34:10 I think it was v. 19:34:43 so i could do things like ~~vT? 19:34:50 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:34:51 Oh, no. It's ~vT. 19:35:02 ahh ok 19:42:24 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 19:44:28 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:44:36 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:44:56 jewel [n=jewel@iburst-41-213-48-245.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:46:17 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-53-5.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:47:34 jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:09 karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has joined #lisp 19:48:43 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:49:03 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:13 Naming a class Foo> is kind of evil... 19:49:50 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:57 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:51:04 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 19:51:28 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:52:39 mije [n=mije@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:03 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 19:56:57 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 19:57:28 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:58:16 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:59:26 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0E743.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 20:00:06 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:02:03 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0E743.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:48 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp100.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:07:29 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:10:53 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:13:10 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 20:15:04 -!- clog [i=nef@bespin.org] has quit ["^C"] 20:15:20 clog [i=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 20:16:32 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0E743.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 20:18:31 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0E743.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:42 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.52.238] has left #lisp 20:22:20 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:08 hi, in sbcl, customize-target-features.lisp, do I need something special except for :sb-thread? I am going to build it for a web server, with as much fanciness in error reporting, debugging and slime support. Will defaults do? 20:24:13 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:29 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:24:32 Defaults usually suffice. 20:25:03 You might want to make sure :sb-ldb is not in there, though, if you want production use (though it is possible to disable it at runtime). 20:26:03 nyef: thanks. btw, is :sb-thread on by default? I also need unicode, is it on by default too? 20:26:14 maybe I don't need this file at all then? 20:26:15 That I don't know. 20:26:34 Kick off a build, interrupt it, and look at local-target-features? 20:27:02 ok, I understand a file will be created 20:28:24 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:28:52 the defaults are dependent on the build architecture. 20:29:18 Hence looking at l-t-f to see what the actual values end up as. 20:30:26 puchacz: unicode is on by default. 20:30:53 ok, so I am just adding thread support. thanks, gusy 20:30:54 guys 20:31:03 I don't think sb-thread is, even on platforms which support it 20:31:35 just added it 20:33:26 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 20:35:33 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:36:18 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:12 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:38:00 :sb-threads comes up regularly and there are still people arguing against it. i built at least 10 sbcl's myself without sb-threads when i knew i needed it... sensible defaults are important. 20:38:54 Mmm... And some people have :sb-thread SBCL's and strip :sb-thread off of *features* in their startup files. 20:39:36 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:40:09 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 20:40:31 i didn't say it fits all, but i'm pretty sure that with the flopped default there were much less time wasted talking about it 20:40:50 -!- mije [n=mije@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:41:06 Zephtar [n=srusek@d57-112.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:48:22 clhs restart-case 20:48:43 Oh. No specbot. 20:50:07 #lisp really spoils a person. I was in another room, to remain unnamed, and the paste site didn't notify the room of new pastes and there were no logs of the conversation, much less specbots or minion. 20:50:33 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:57 not to speak of the SNR! 20:52:05 -!- photon_ is now known as photon 20:52:10 not having an evalbot is both a minus and a plus, there. 20:52:42 we discussed the specs of an evalbot a while ago. 20:53:03 How is it a minus? 20:53:06 the conclusion was that it's basically impossible to make a usable evalbot. 20:53:13 tcr - SNR 20:53:34 How does it negatively affect the SNR? 20:53:39 'usable' meaning safe and complete, or 'usable' meaning that it wouldn't pester the channel? 20:53:56 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:54:06 ayrnieu, both, but mostly #1. you can't really do much without state. save for some loop-style constructs, but then you have your SBCL somewhere instead of pestering the channel. 20:54:10 tcr - someone talks to a bot, fails, tries again, fails again, and a simple example becomes someone playing with a REPL in the channel. 20:54:47 ayrnieu: Sorry I got that backwards, I meant to ask about the positive affects 20:55:03 tcr - oh, no, that was me getting it backwards. 20:55:11 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-163.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:55:35 I'm confusingly confused now. 20:55:49 tcr - the minus of 'not having an evalbot' is that you can't answer someone with a short expression at the REPL. It's something you get used to in channels that have them, and it works pretty well when it isn't spam. 20:57:22 Doesn't mean you can't script your IRC client to similar effect. 20:57:39 But so that only you can run the eval, and optionally echo the expression and results to the channel. 20:59:03 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:59:59 tic - #1's relatively easy: lock the image down at the syscall level with OS support, then have IRC process do the throttling of output, restarting on demand or when it stops responding, etc. 21:00:14 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-69.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:00:20 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:21 ayrnieu: I think the pedagogical effect is larger if someone has to copy the expression, likely switch workspaces, and then insert it into an Emacs session. (The context switch means that he's more likely to spend some time on his own on the matter.) 21:00:47 ^authent1c [n=authenti@85-127-21-100.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:00:48 hello 21:01:35 Wouldn't the context switch also mean he's likely not to do it at all? 21:01:58 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 21:02:08 why worry about someone who doesn't want to learn? 21:02:20 You forgot this is #lisp and what effect that will bring to his reputation. 21:02:48 I thought you were talking about the knowledgable person who's pasting the expression 21:03:43 i dunno if there are enough real newbs coming to this channel to seriously worry about pedagogical effects at that level. 21:04:27 iaindalton: Believe it or not, one reason people are in here is to help others. 21:05:45 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-163.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:06:45 I know, I'm merely suggesting that it might make it easier on the person who wishes to help if they can type the expression in the channel, and have the bot say the result. Otherwise, he has to type it into a lisp implementation, then copy both expression and result. It's not a big thing, but I understand why some might want a bot that evals. 21:07:31 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@CMU-221270.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:07:31 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:09:11 iaindalton: Didn't I just suggest scripting your IRC client to do that? 21:09:36 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-208-199.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:10:25 Something that only works for dedicated channel-dwellers, right? 21:10:50 Something that only works for people who can be bothered to script their IRC clients. 21:10:58 Doesn't have to be dedicated channel-dwellers. 21:11:00 iaindalton: if you want an evaluation-bot, why not write one? 21:11:01 *iaindalton* is playing devil's advocate, btw. An evalbot isn't really necessary. 21:11:19 mle: Because we kicked the last evalbot out of here? 21:11:25 Maybe not an evalbot, but what about an evilbot? 21:11:49 *mle* shrugs 21:11:50 Isn't that what minion is for? 21:12:04 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 21:12:06 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:12:15 iaindalton: Misusing the channel bot as an REPL is spamming 21:12:15 well, any irc client that supports /exec -o 21:12:16 -!- ^authent1c is now known as authentic 21:13:27 it seems to work okay in other places 21:13:27 Which ones are those? I'm a casual IRC user, so I don't know much about these advanced things you can do with your client. 21:14:03 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host190.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:14:55 it's as much about the culture in a given channel as the utility of such a service. 21:16:44 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 21:17:25 <_death> iaindalton: some of us use emacs to chat on irc, which makes repl experimentation followed by kill/yank a breeze 21:17:38 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:52 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:20:25 I don't need to be convinced; I agree. 21:21:23 ayrnieu pasted "'evalbot' at the rcirc prompt" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76481 21:21:36 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-149-206.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:30 nyef pasted "Alpha emulation, anyone?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76482 21:22:33 it keeps the point after the expression so that you work on it; replaces the rest of the input with --> expression-result . 21:23:45 nyef: nice :) 21:23:59 nyef annotated #76482 "The code thus far (yes, it needs refactoring already)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76482#1 21:24:54 so you'll have a NES emulator running in OpenGenera running on an emulated alpha ... 21:25:30 I'm more likely to have an NES emulator running in SBCL running on an Alpha emulator running in SBCL... 21:27:13 josemanuel [n=josemanu@214.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:31:11 This stage of emulator development is always the easiest. Run it 'till it breaks, patch it up, and resume. 21:31:23 -!- CrazyEddy [n=infelici@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:31:51 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:32:40 So, does CL make emulator development easier since you have so much control over the running image? 21:32:57 Yes. 21:33:34 Right now I'm stepping through the emulated code one instruction at a time, and if an instruction isn't emulated I get an error with a discription of the opcode. 21:33:45 There's a restart that cleans up the machine state and gets me back to the REPL. 21:33:53 I define the new instruction and re-step. 21:34:33 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:34:58 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:36:51 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:41:14 Can't just leave the debugger buffer open, and then invoke a continue restart? 21:41:56 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 21:41:57 I could define a retry restart, but I prefer to get back to the REPL. 21:42:28 If we're speaking about slime, you can use the repl while sldb is open 21:42:28 nyef: when will you add proper PALcode trap on unknown opcode? :D 21:42:48 Probably not for a while. 21:43:14 *nyef* has actually just hit 12.3c, which appears to be undefined. 21:43:23 I wonder how long would it take to get this to run some real code... 21:43:37 *p_l* is very interested in alpha emulation 21:44:28 I've been working over in memory on JIT code generation... (it's a wonder how many things you can check while walking home from uni!) 21:45:05 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0DD01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:35 Heh. Take the CLOAK approach of building CL functions for basic code blocks, then teaching the compiler to translate them better? 21:46:45 nyef: I was thinking about emulating icache as containing only the code executable on local platform 21:47:11 a jit for CL? 21:47:13 Too volatile. 21:47:22 dcrawford: for Alpha instructions 21:47:46 Keep a dirty flag for pages that have been translated. 21:48:23 nyef: other than that, In order to get better recognition of the code, use PALcode calls as breaking points too look around the state of the code you are modifying :) 21:48:45 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 21:48:56 Yeah, possibly. 21:49:20 Since Alpha has explicit calls for various caching situations, it will allow for better code generation than Qemu's for x86 code, where they rewrite stuff into 128 instructions? blocks 21:49:27 Anyway, you need a straight-up interpreter for your fallback position anyway. 21:49:36 my idea with icache was for beginning :) 21:49:45 Heh. 21:50:22 -!- beach` is now known as beach 21:50:50 Another thing would be to override PALcode loads 21:51:02 and reimplement the calls natively 21:51:18 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:51:36 Yeah, that's something I've considered. 21:51:38 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 21:51:44 With fallback interpreter it will allow for much higher speed, since PALcode is quite important :) 21:52:09 Or you could just do user-mode emulation and run the syscalls natively... 21:52:17 (without fallback interpreter we will fuckup anything that uses other palcode than OSF, WinNT and VMS) 21:52:25 nyef: for that I have qemu-alpha already :) 21:52:30 Fair enough. 21:52:47 I want OpenVMS, in a cluster, working :> 21:53:18 I want to see working FreeVMS or, failing that, a NetVMS project. Just because. 21:53:22 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 21:54:14 I don't see big chance for that, though. Unless someone manages to get HP to publish VMS source code. Which would be much better decision than many they made 21:54:37 Cloning it would be a large effort, but should be possible. 21:55:27 nyef: Not enough people interested :) 21:55:30 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:55:58 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:56:08 -!- blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:16 just getting some "free" software on VMS is hard 21:56:21 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:41 most of the nice cluster tech from VMS made it to tru64 21:57:01 unless it's the actual vms environment you're looking for. :) 21:57:05 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:31 blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:46 Fade: And of Tru64 there's only AdvFS left :P 21:58:49 brb 21:59:15 HP gave up trying to port any of that into HP/UX 21:59:30 silly that they're killing the DEC ecosystem. :P 22:00:35 -!- Bootvis [n=brj@g37065.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:00:37 http://www.opencores.org:80/projects.cgi/web/ualpha/overview 22:00:59 Ah, there it is. 12.3c is SRA. 22:01:14 -!- photon is now known as graviphoton 22:01:21 -!- graviphoton is now known as photon 22:01:24 Don't know how I missed it before. 22:02:06 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0E743.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:28 *mega1* has been reading http://www.agner.org/optimize/microarchitecture.pdf, still doesn't understand core duo behaviour 22:03:19 mega1: Tell me when you find the _actual_ opcodes that are executed by Core... unless, unlike K5, you can't get into low-level anymore >_> 22:03:31 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-176-79.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:03:34 Fade: Cute, but they haven't updated in two years? 22:03:57 doesn't look like it got out of the planning stage, which is a shame. 22:04:22 p_l: what does _actual_ opcode mean? microops? 22:05:10 mega1: yeah. In K5, some info says that you could actually enable the underlying RISC ISA 22:05:31 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:06:26 and what would that information give you? 22:06:48 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 22:07:09 pkhuong: perverse satisfaction if I could make Core into RISC 22:08:50 Hey, can you do that with a Turion? 22:09:48 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:09:49 Or the few Athlon64s without VT-x? 22:10:07 (Whatever it's called.) 22:10:28 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:10:42 nyef: Why K8/K10 without svm? 22:11:04 Because I have one sitting upstairs running WinXP, and it would be amusing. 22:11:42 nyef: heh. Recent linux kernels have microcode upgrade for certain amd64, but no data on microcode is known, afaik 22:12:09 A worse situation than the Explorers, huh? 22:13:05 basically all you could do with the microcode is to disable the boring instructions that nobody uses in performance critical code anywasy 22:13:14 all the important instrs are directly executed. 22:13:16 -!- jewel [n=jewel@iburst-41-213-48-245.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:14:11 Oh my. The next instruction to emulate is PAL1B. 22:14:23 ... I thought this didn't run in PALmode? 22:16:12 Ah. ICSR enables these instructions in kernel mode. 22:16:42 nyef: Do you plan to include support up to EV7z? :) 22:16:48 where is specbot? 22:16:59 on earth ? 22:17:14 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:17:15 *nyef* goes to kick the bots. 22:17:36 fe[nl]ix: i'd be ok if it was on mars 22:17:48 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 22:17:48 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 22:17:58 stassats: there would be latency problems 22:18:13 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:21 better than no specbot at all 22:21:52 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:22:21 Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:17 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:35 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 22:23:43 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:23:49 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:51 archangeleon [n=archange@cpe-72-228-162-52.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:54 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:00 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:30 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-191-168.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:29:10 yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:34:56 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e70c991.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:35:08 rukubites [n=user@d58-110-99-132.mas6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:35:44 BTW, regarding SWIG and CFFI - I'm currently experimenting with generating CFFI bindings to TokyoCabinet library using SWIG - looks interesting :) 22:35:57 How do I make sbcl print a message when it garbage collects? sb-ext::*gc-verbose* doesn't seem to be a variable. 22:36:14 p_l: Have you considered just doing a network binding to TokyoTyrant? 22:36:15 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:41 rukubites pasted "Confusing loop case" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76484 22:37:00 nyef: Yes, but part of this project is to check how well SWIG+CFFI work :) 22:37:12 Can someone explain why the paste returns (a b c d) and not (b c d)? 22:37:33 clhs 3.6 22:37:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_f.htm 22:38:10 nyef: Also, I'd like to embed tokyocabinet in ECL images, should I get SWIG+CFFI working well enough and ECL compiled on certain targets 22:38:20 I would argue that the loop is not traversing the list during the INITIALLY clause. 22:38:47 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has left #lisp 22:38:49 Since by definition the initially occurs before the loop starts. 22:39:51 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:40:04 A close reading of 6.1.7.2 suggests that the iteration variable for ELE has already been set from LIST by the time the INITIALLY form is run. 22:41:03 Ahhh, well it is per spec I guess (ACL and SBCL agree)... just seems silly since INITIALLY is quite likely meant to operate on the variables declared with WITH. 22:41:53 I guess I will just use an outside let... which kinda defeats the purpose of WITH when using INITIALLY. 22:42:02 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:12 then do "with list = (cdr '(a b c d))" 22:42:38 stassats, do you really think that my real code is that simplistic example? 22:42:56 yes 22:43:16 Ahhh, I am actually a contractor who programs lisp full time for a living. 22:43:20 *shrugs* 22:43:22 back to work. 22:43:30 congratulations 22:44:05 It pales a little after a year and a half, but it's still better than java. 22:44:17 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:44:52 Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:45:38 -!- rukubites [n=user@d58-110-99-132.mas6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:45:56 so, what's bad with assigning variable cdr of a list, instead of throwing car away? 22:49:09 lispdoc is back up. 22:50:51 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-133.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:52:12 stassats: It doesn't fit into some aspect of the problem that wasn't explained in the paste. 22:53:31 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D7BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:06 but the general idea should be that you want to pop a car out just after binding a variable 22:55:56 Yeah, but it gets nasty if it's a conditional pop, etc. 22:56:18 Only thing you can really do is move the initially form and withs to a let body outside the loop. 22:59:28 i'd take it if it's POPing some other place in a list 22:59:45 That's what I prefer anyway, LOOP is for looping, not for establishing bindings 23:00:05 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@214.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 23:00:35 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:01:12 auxiliary variables for looping? 23:01:26 S11001001 pasted "ANSI question on symbol-macros and ltv" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76488 23:01:38 S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has joined #lisp 23:01:44 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:06:09 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:06:14 Format controls are icky: "HW_LD: ~:[virt~;phys~] ~:[long~;quad~]~@[ ~{~(~A~)~#[~:;,~]~}~] R~D = #x~X(R~D)~%" 23:06:16 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 23:07:04 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:09:01 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:52 Hello, I'm about to send out an email to cl-opengl but maybe someone here can save me the trouble. Does anyone here use, develop, or maintain cl-opengl? 23:10:13 <_3b> WarWeasle: what's the question? 23:10:40 I'm trying to use the vertex arrays. 23:11:22 S11001001: It's interesting that define-symbol-macro is not explicitly specified to have a compile-time effect as a toplevel form. 23:11:33 And here is a definition for the arrarys as in the opengl-arrays example: 23:11:34 (gl:define-gl-array-format vnte 23:11:34 (gl:vertex :type :float :components (x y z)) 23:11:34 (gl:normal :type :float :components (nx ny nz)) 23:11:34 (gl:tex-coord :type :float :components (tx ty)) 23:11:34 (%gl:edge-flag :type :float :components (e))) 23:11:41 <_3b> WarWeasle: don't paste here 23:11:49 sorry :( 23:11:54 <_3b> lisppaste: url 23:11:55 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 23:12:00 <_3b> WarWeasle: paste there ^^ 23:13:07 WarWeasle pasted "cl-opengl vertex array question" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76490 23:13:52 Do I post my questions there as well? 23:14:01 <_3b> nah,talk here 23:14:24 S11001001: In my reading, I think it's required, but only for compile-file. Not for load, without prior compile-file. 23:14:36 23:14:36 How do I allocate the arrays? 23:14:36 How do I set the values inside them? 23:14:36 And finally, how do I invoke the arrays? 23:14:55 why would one put that in a load-time-value anyway? 23:15:05 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 23:15:19 S11001001: "that"? 23:15:24 WarWeasle annotated #76490 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76490#1 23:15:30 the 2nd arg to top-level defvar 23:16:32 S11001001: I ignored the defvar and assumed it was just used exemplary 23:16:34 I'm trying to create a 3d version of emacs. 23:16:42 oh wow 23:17:01 (btw this is adapted from hunchentoot, where ccl trunk Nov19 signals unbound-variable on *A*) 23:17:07 <_3b> WarWeasle: looks like it is there in the example, gl:alloc-gl-array, gl:glaref, gl:bind-gl-vertex-array 23:17:29 <_3b> WarWeasle: don't think i've used that api though, seem to remember not liking it last time i looked at it 23:18:53 *_3b* has been too lazy to actually finish any alternate proposals though, so my vote may not count for much :) 23:19:29 It's the best I've found so far. And gl:bind-gl-vertex-array seems to just work with the vertex array. I keep getting an error (:float is not real?) when I try to use it with other arrays. 23:20:00 <_3b> what do you mean? 23:20:18 I have a normal-array an edge-array etc 23:20:58 <_3b> paste your code onto lisppaste 23:21:02 S11001001: What does (progn (define-symbol-macro .x. 42) (macroexpand '.x. nil)) do? 23:21:51 matthewc [n=matthewc@adsl-99-154-107-34.dsl.tpkaks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:56 Crap. My wife is calling me. I thought I had more time. Sorry to start a question and run. I should be back on tomorrow, though. 23:22:20 priority interrupt :-) 23:22:22 <_3b> ok 23:22:29 Also, I have several files of code, soo.... 23:22:37 thanks and bye. 23:22:43 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:25:21 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:25:32 postamar [n=postamar@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:26:23 -!- yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:26:44 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:27:51 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:28:16 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 23:29:33 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:33:20 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 23:34:32 -!- dabd [n=dabd@85.139.99.131] has quit [Client Quit] 23:35:32 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.115.26] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:36:28 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:59 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-71-146-74-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:30 -!- robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:41:51 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:50:58 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:51:19 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 23:51:58 If I declaim #'fsmall as inline and fsmall uses an argument/var v, will the v conflict with the local variables of the calling function if they are both named the same v ? 23:52:29 deego: no. Scoping isn't affected by inlining. 23:52:45 Thanks 23:53:03 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 23:54:26 Just to make sure, (defun foo (a) (setf b 1)) (defun bar (let (b) (setq b 2) (foo) b)). Bar will return 2, right? even if foo is inline. 23:54:54 -!- postamar [n=postamar@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:54:58 deego - yes. 23:55:05 Thanks 23:57:12 It makes no sense to declaim a macro as inlined, right? 23:57:37 right 23:57:49 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"]