00:02:11 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslc-082-082-054-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:04:34 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:20 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:07:40 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:11:15 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [] 00:13:04 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:14:19 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:18:59 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["bb1"] 00:20:21 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.179.171] has quit [Broken pipe] 00:20:21 -!- dcjackson [n=dcj@208.68.111.250] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:20:31 KalifG [n=user@166.128.179.171] has joined #lisp 00:20:41 dcjackson [n=dcj@208.68.111.250] has joined #lisp 00:21:52 Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:34 crock [n=patapain@ANice-251-1-12-9.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:23:41 -!- crock [n=patapain@ANice-251-1-12-9.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 00:30:24 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-183-185.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 00:32:01 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-32.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 00:33:43 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-32.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 00:35:56 -!- nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:39:35 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:39:52 Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-99-224.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 00:42:18 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 00:43:12 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:44:28 -!- clamothe [n=clamothe@c-98-232-227-219.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:46:57 -!- Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:48:52 I'd like to loop over a lisp, but consume two elements of that list each time, is there a standard-way of doing that? 00:49:11 (loop for (a b) on list by #'cddr ...) 00:49:12 s/lisp/list/ 00:49:23 oh, nice 00:49:27 thanks ayrnieu 00:50:24 cl-markdown installed from clbuild is giving me a "There is no class named NIL" error when I try to run (markdown "foobar") it looks like it is on a (make-instance 'chunk ...) anyone else run across this? 00:50:35 nullman` [n=nullman@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:46 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:51:51 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:52:00 madnificent: (loop for (a b) on "http://www.cliki.net/Common%20Lisp%20implementation" by #'cddr ...) 00:52:05 ? 00:53:52 tritchey: I couldn't get cl-markdown running either, I tried to get it running from asdf-install 00:55:28 I'm not sure if bitrot has set in or not. I'm wondering if some dependency has moved on without it 00:56:02 minion: cl-markdown 00:56:03 cl-markdown: CL-Markdown is a Common Lisp implementation of John Gruber's Markdown text layout language. http://www.cliki.net/cl-markdown 00:57:06 Fade: but the one from cliki.net will not run either (at least, not here) 00:58:54 after an afternoon jacking around with it a month or so ago. I got it working using a combination of asdf-install and pulling random libraries in manually, blowing away fasls, and trying various restarts -- things I would never be able to reproduce. I was hoping clbuild would have better luck. At this point, I don't even remember what I did to get it working. 00:59:00 i just wanted to know what it was. 00:59:09 -!- nullman [n=nullman@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:01:30 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:17 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCD3F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 01:04:11 -!- dcjackson [n=dcj@208.68.111.250] has quit [] 01:05:22 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:08:05 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:09:46 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 01:10:28 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 01:12:09 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-47-203.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 01:12:29 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:24 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 01:14:06 Alaisa [n=asdf@d83-181-37-120.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 01:15:14 -!- Alaisa [n=asdf@d83-181-37-120.cust.tele2.at] has left #lisp 01:15:40 Fade: I think there is no normal markup left for lisp, as all of them seem to fail... There is a php-bb like parser... you could use that 01:16:38 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483D033.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:18:59 -!- bighouse [n=bighouse@modemcable012.160-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:20:49 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.60.227] has joined #lisp 01:21:26 semyon [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 01:23:25 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:50 -!- iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:26:03 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.179.171] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:26:13 KalifG [n=user@166.128.179.171] has joined #lisp 01:32:21 -!- mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:34:28 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:34:39 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:37:49 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-99-224.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:37:58 -!- reikon [n=thomas@unaffiliated/reikon] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:41:08 reikon [n=thomas@unaffiliated/reikon] has joined #lisp 01:42:39 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@ool-ad0261b8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 01:42:56 HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:43:54 -!- semyon [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:45:19 -!- kpreid_ [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 01:46:09 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:22 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.179.171] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:46:51 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:47:42 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:09 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:50:24 jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:51:43 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:38 Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 01:55:15 ayrnieu pasted "minion: chant" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76301 01:57:16 ayrnieu: pasting that, is quite ironic 01:57:26 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:58:34 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:02:38 madnificent: it's called 'trolling' 02:04:26 minion: chant 02:04:27 MORE LIKELY 02:04:29 no no, 02:04:31 MORE CODE 02:04:32 minion: chant 02:04:33 MORE CODE 02:06:02 I agree to an extent, though, although I feel like the implication is "Common Lisp was designed too much, but not iterated through enough" 02:06:12 iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has joined #lisp 02:06:38 by the same token, you're not going to get anywhere if you keep trying to reinvent what "ceramic" means, so there's a midpoint as always. 02:07:51 Who would imply that CL itself was designed too much? There was plenty of iteration leading up to. 02:07:59 yeah, there was. 02:08:20 it sounds like a great argument for lisp languages in general. Being able to iterate through ideas as fast as lisp lets you is quite nice. 02:09:02 speaking of iteration, someone should rewrite Mythical Man-Month and take away that damn "Always plan to throw one away" rule. 02:09:57 -!- comex [n=comex@teklinks.org] has quit ["Caught sigterm, terminating..."] 02:10:05 Isn't that what "Extreme Programming Explained" is? 02:10:11 comex [n=comex@teklinks.org] has joined #lisp 02:10:20 haimez [n=Haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:28 housel: XP has too much baggage. 02:10:49 sykopomp - the Mythical Man-Month itself did that. 02:10:53 <``Erik> xp gives me the mental image of a laptop on a snowboard or mountain bike or something O.o :D 02:11:05 ayrnieu: then why does it always end up being true? *cries* 02:11:10 buy a recent edition of it. It says "forget this. Use the waterfall model." 02:11:19 hahaha 02:11:37 I have a recent version. I haven't actually finished the book yet. I think that part is in the back with the new essays. 02:11:50 yes 02:11:50 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:12:31 (chapters 16-19 are newer) 02:12:45 yeah 02:12:48 waterfall is huge fail 02:12:57 in most software 02:13:11 Hey I was wondering if anyone here could direct me to a guide (hopefully both free and online) to learning more lisp. I've read the online book at gigamonkeys and it's a little dense for me I think. I've never really done any programming in the past but I understand computers pretty well and I've played with some PHP and C++ in the past 02:13:11 Adamant_: but it looks so cool! management loves cool! 02:13:21 I thought the surgical-team strategy was pretty neat (as I read about it in MMM) 02:13:32 minion: please tell haimez about pcl 02:13:33 haimez: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 02:13:49 haimez: please tell haimez about paip 02:13:55 sykopomp: it's OK if there's upward mobility and everyone gets their hands into different things at one point 02:14:16 damn, that's the gigamonkeys book. 02:14:19 minion: please tell haimez about paip 02:14:21 haimez: direct your attention towards paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/paip 02:14:26 sykopomp: there, helped you :P 02:14:43 madnificent: thanks, but maybe what he wants is something like gentle intro, now that I think about it. 02:15:08 minion: books 02:15:09 books: Lisp Books: A list of favorite Lisp books. http://www.cliki.net/Lisp%20Books 02:15:11 but I don't know what the best route would be if there isn't a good prior knowledge (which is why I sent him here... I don't know the good routes -_-) 02:17:01 madnificent: I started lisp with Gentle Intro, then I read most of PCL, then I coded for a while, and then I started reading PAIP (not too far into it yet) 02:18:32 wasn't SICP a rather good introduction in general? (does it touch objects?) 02:18:55 I already knew too much by SICP, to say. 02:19:03 SICP uses Scheme, so it's not a CL book per-se 02:19:11 w00ps 02:20:30 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D28B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:21:00 in all previous cases I've seen, the approach of asking it here was perfect... someone would stand up and point the user in the -possibly correct- direction 02:21:22 sykopomp: is gentle intro more elaborate than the PCL? 02:21:31 madnificent: It's more of a general book on programming from more "science" approach with heavy bent to FP (and scheme) 02:21:40 (that was about SICP) 02:21:45 haimez - try and make it through PCL anyway, while writing functions and small programs, and ask questions here when have them. Asking questions and reading books are essential skills. 02:21:59 madnificent: no, it's much simpler, it uses archaic Pre-CL CL, and is more an intro to programming (symbolic computation, rather) than it is an intro to lisp itself. 02:22:39 I recommend PCL as well. Though if someone rewrote RWH into CL, we would probably get a nice updated PCL :) 02:23:00 RWH? 02:23:17 minion: rwh? 02:23:18 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``rwh''. 02:23:21 Real World Haskell. 02:23:28 ah 02:26:32 That reminds me. Does anyone know anything of prototype-based languages that try to be really declarative than usual? I'm still reading through Slate docs, since it seems to do something along those lines. 02:30:28 rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 02:32:47 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:34:00 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 02:34:43 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:35:52 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:36:51 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:43:03 saikat [n=saikat@71.95.206.82] has joined #lisp 02:50:01 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:51:18 -!- jao [n=jao@252.Red-79-155-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:52:34 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:53:39 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:36 -!- haimez [n=Haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:57:52 ozy` [n=vt920@ool-ad0261b8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:14 benny` [n=benny@i577A127C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:02:46 paddy_mullen [n=patrickm@cpe-74-64-17-235.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:08 lakedenma [n=irchon@166.192.84.28] has joined #lisp 03:03:09 -!- lakedenma [n=irchon@166.192.84.28] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:03:19 haimez [n=Haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:37 is anyone familiar with the CUSP plugin for Eclipse enough to help me get it to work? 03:03:54 not even a little bit familiar with it. 03:03:58 minion: slime 03:03:59 slime: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/slime 03:04:31 I have emacs 03:04:34 and slime 03:04:58 but the CUSP plugin for eclipse is more polished in some aspects (less so in the more advanced ones) 03:05:04 but it's really finicky 03:05:15 and I don't think it likes my threaded version 1.0.25 of SBCL 03:07:19 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:32 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:07:33 -!- jfactor [n=john@student165-220.hampshire.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:08:30 I'm going to try redownloading eclipse and if it still won't work maybe I'll make CUSP run from clisp or something 03:09:23 madman91 [i=madman91@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-494c18be9a7a1886] has joined #lisp 03:09:28 -!- madman91 [i=madman91@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-494c18be9a7a1886] has left #lisp 03:11:01 -!- younder [n=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 03:12:49 younder [n=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 03:14:16 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:14:23 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0D76.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:14:48 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:15:01 jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:07 -!- Drakeson` is now known as Drakeson 03:16:18 -!- haimez [n=Haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:16:53 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD9EE783A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:17:02 tetha [n=hk@pD9EE7808.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:29 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:22:08 haimez [n=Haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:44 -!- younder [n=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 03:23:21 jfactor [n=john@student165-220.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 03:26:43 -!- benny` is now known as benny 03:27:16 clamothe [n=clamothe@c-98-232-227-219.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:21 mechine_ [n=mutable@220-253-187-75.NSW.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:29:30 -!- mechine_ [n=mutable@220-253-187-75.NSW.netspace.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 03:31:17 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:40 -!- PissedNumlock [n=resteven@134.184.8.70] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:33:42 ap [n=ap@c211-30-183-171.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:34:06 hello lispers! 03:35:00 I don't suppose Zach Beane is around, or someone familiar with the insides of his amazon S3 interface? 03:36:17 ap: no, but you could try emailing xach 03:38:22 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:38:22 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:38:27 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:36 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:02 -!- paddy_mullen [n=patrickm@cpe-74-64-17-235.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:39:44 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:40:09 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:41 dysinger_ [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:42:41 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:45:00 -!- clamothe [n=clamothe@c-98-232-227-219.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:46:25 -!- haimez [n=Haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:47:44 haimez [n=Haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:07 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:49:25 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:50:41 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:51:11 yup - I'll do that... but it means I'm stuck for a while. :-( 03:51:25 I was hoping maybe he hung around here. Thanks anyway! 03:52:20 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:55:54 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 03:56:40 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:57 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 04:02:29 -!- haimez [n=Haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:09:09 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:10:04 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:25 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE00179ab667a9-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:15:58 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:18:24 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp100.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 04:19:34 bbe [n=bbe@117.89.54.81] has joined #lisp 04:27:44 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:28:05 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:15 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:38:49 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:45:17 mooglenorph [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 04:46:14 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:49:52 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-188.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:50:01 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-188.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 04:50:19 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-188.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:55:54 AZureljas [n=AZure@118.68.223.139] has joined #lisp 04:56:01 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-188.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:56:37 -!- AZureljas [n=AZure@118.68.223.139] has left #lisp 04:59:43 AZureljas [n=AZure@118.68.223.139] has joined #lisp 05:03:06 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:03:45 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-188.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:08:12 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:34 -!- bbe [n=bbe@117.89.54.81] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:23:34 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.129.30] has joined #lisp 05:24:31 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:55 -!- AZureljas [n=AZure@118.68.223.139] has quit [] 05:30:14 mcox [n=markcox@203-214-39-177.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:30:51 Is there a way to stop the reader from trying to intern symbols into packages? 05:31:55 why would you want this? 05:32:33 I have a file that contains a number of s-expressions. I want to write a program that counts the number s-expressions in the file. 05:33:29 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:35:40 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:36:51 what, exactly, does the interning hurt? 05:38:51 I've written the program that counts the number of s-expressions, but the program has to know all the packages involved for it too work. If the file contains symbols in packages that don't exist, an error is signaled. 05:40:06 Each s-expression is data to be given to a function. Each piece of data can be executed in parallel, e.g. An experiment configuration. 05:42:38 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:44:17 I've looked at using a restart to handle the error, but on SBCL, the package that is missing isn't in the error condition. 05:46:34 What do you consider to be an s-expression? 05:47:52 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:51:38 http://paste.lisp.org/display/76309 05:54:35 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56:13 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 05:56:19 semyon [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 05:58:34 mcox - no. Write a little state machine that counts top-level s-expressions without reading them. 05:59:29 Ok .. cheers. 06:12:37 GrayMagiker [n=Twilight@75-173-4-175.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:57 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:26:39 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:26:48 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 06:33:21 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:09 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has joined #lisp 06:52:06 g'day 06:52:07 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:52:16 an Australian!! 06:52:33 schme? 06:52:43 Almost :) 06:52:59 heh 06:53:01 mcox: I'm in Sweden really, but it's pretty close! 06:53:08 you say g'day 06:53:09 ? 06:53:12 in Sweden? 06:53:57 Well.. not really, we mostly speak swedish :) 06:54:12 I see..that makes sense. 06:54:14 bork bork bork ;) 06:54:40 hah 06:56:18 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:57:17 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:21 vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has joined #lisp 07:07:47 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@ool-ad0261b8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 07:08:46 schme: bork bork bork 07:09:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY_Yf4zz-yo 07:09:56 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:12:54 ha 07:13:44 Quadrescence: Hey that's amazing. Just yesterday I was thinking "where on earth did that guy who was writing a lisp go.. qsomething... hmm.. Quadrescence, yeah that was it" 07:14:00 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 07:14:05 schme: :O 07:14:22 *schme* flips a coin. Nope, not installing flash to watch the youtube. 07:14:27 Is it the swedish chef? 07:14:37 I posted a stupid video demoing it (my lithp) the other day. 07:15:06 And no, it's not a video of something interesting, it is a video of my terminal. 07:15:13 oh :) 07:15:35 Terminal ninja go! 07:16:34 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 07:17:47 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:18:08 hello 07:19:29 schme: Here is that interesting video: http://f.imagehost.org/download/0624/delta 07:20:53 -!- iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:28:03 Quadrescence: hey nice work! 07:28:30 schme: It has quasiquoting, splicing, and bla bla 07:31:20 basant [n=basant@203.115.68.209] has joined #lisp 07:32:08 hello everyone, can anyone read me? 07:32:28 those that speak english should have no troubles. 07:32:29 basant: Nope. 07:37:26 Anyone know of a YAML parser & serializer for CL? 07:38:31 (I've searched a fair bit, but I didn't find anything; it seems no one really wants one.) 07:38:45 :) ok thanks guys, only checking my icq client... can you help me with this? 07:38:56 Help you with what? 07:38:59 http://paste.lisp.org/display/76313 07:39:05 this ^ 07:39:32 What are you trying to do? What did you expect it to do? What actually happened? 07:39:38 i am trying to dynamically generate a function name .... can that be done? 07:40:42 ok... everytime i call this method, a handler function with the same name "dynamically-generated-function-name" is generated 07:41:15 i want to be able to dynamically set the function name .... something like... 07:42:21 define-easy-handler is a macro i presume 07:43:18 yup ... i would like something like http://paste.lisp.org/display/76313#1 07:43:38 basant: See the source code for DEFINE-EASY-HANDLER. It expands into a function definition and an addition to *EASY-HANDLERS-ALIST*. 07:43:59 You can do that manually. 07:44:15 any easy way to view the source? 07:44:58 Or you could do this: (macrolet ((define-easy-handler* (name args &body body) `(define-easy-handler ,(make-name-from-symbol name) ,args ,@body))) (define-easy-handler* foo () bar)) 07:44:59 press M-. in slime 07:45:08 after define-easy-handler 07:45:13 it will jump to the definition 07:45:26 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:46:08 Quadrescence: in c? 07:46:14 guaqua: Yes. 07:46:40 garbage collecting yet? :) 07:47:21 i implemented my own in the fall, but the project got sidetracked and paused because of garbage collection :( 07:48:24 GC is evil, so that is good. 07:48:29 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:49:21 gc is hard. the only way i could go on was to implement my own stack. couldn't find a way inspect the c stack :( 07:49:29 dunno if there's a way to do that 07:50:31 Hmmm.. 07:50:46 Seeing how there is GC for C there must be someway to do it all (: 07:52:03 well, the nature of GC in C could be a bit different. in the sense that it might not be able to actually go through the references and decide upon that 07:52:14 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:52:43 i.e. you allocate through a special malloc or something in that vein 07:52:57 but i'm sorry, this isn't c-lang. this is lisp :) 07:53:24 -!- basant [n=basant@203.115.68.209] has quit [] 07:53:31 basant [n=basant@203.115.68.209] has joined #lisp 07:54:15 Well it seems obvious to me that there is someway to do it all. clisp pulls it off (: 07:55:24 What we really need though, is some real time GC for SBCL (; 07:55:26 good that you actually mentioned it 07:55:37 i haven't looked at clisp source 07:56:00 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 07:56:06 Ya. Maybe some good ideas in there (: 07:56:19 i have read the SBCL GC through and also the source of tinyscheme 07:56:37 My god. 07:57:06 and as i said, it's not as much as it's undoable, just that it differs from the naive non-GC version alot :) 07:57:29 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-92.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 07:57:49 and implementing the stack frames (if i've got the terminology right) is not as straightforward as the previous C stack 07:58:07 by the way, don't look at tinyscheme for design advice ;) 07:58:23 Sorry for the...delay. I wasn't highlighted. :( 07:58:32 Ok.. I'll store that away somewhere. Maybe I can remember it in two years time in some random IRC conversation. 07:58:40 schme: ;) 07:58:51 "What? Don't be stupid. Everyone knows that the tinyscheme source is horrible for ideas" 07:59:08 There is GC in my lithp. 07:59:18 I'm intrigued by writing a better GC. 07:59:43 Quadrescence: you should feel like the terrible person you are. If you'd replied sooner, we wouldn't have had this mess! 07:59:47 *tic* would very much like not having to reimplement Lisp in Python... 07:59:50 tabb0t [n=tabb0t@122.172.124.133] has joined #lisp 08:00:18 sykopomp: haha :) 08:00:27 ;) 08:00:32 Quadrescence: what kind? 08:00:43 guaqua: Take a wild guess. 08:00:51 You will get it right on the first try. 08:01:03 stop and copy? 08:01:19 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:30 No. So I guess you didn't get it right on the first try. 08:01:39 mark and sweep. :< 08:01:43 :( 08:02:25 -!- tabb0t [n=tabb0t@122.172.124.133] has left #lisp 08:02:49 tabb0t [n=tabb0t@122.172.124.133] has joined #lisp 08:03:18 Quadrescence: have you actually implemented your own stack or still using the C one? 08:04:05 guaqua: The C one. I am unhappy about this. 08:07:12 -!- basant [n=basant@203.115.68.209] has quit [] 08:07:56 schme: picolisp has an interesting approach to GC 08:08:14 -!- tabb0t [n=tabb0t@122.172.124.133] has left #lisp 08:09:34 tabb0t [n=tabb0t@122.172.124.133] has joined #lisp 08:09:53 -!- tabb0t [n=tabb0t@122.172.124.133] has left #lisp 08:10:10 tabb0t [n=tabb0t@122.172.124.133] has joined #lisp 08:11:33 HET2 [n=diman@77.70.78.34] has joined #lisp 08:11:35 guaqua: Which is? 08:11:47 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslc-082-082-054-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:20 I wonder 08:12:27 what if you could take, say, a CLOS object 08:12:47 schme: every "object" is the same size. no fragmentation - in a sense 08:12:49 and do something like (with-direct-parents (temporary-direct-parent-list) obj (do-stuff ...)) 08:13:01 (call-this-method obj) and such 08:13:06 -!- Adamant_ [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:14:02 You can, can't ya? 08:14:13 or (with-direct-parents ((cons new-parent (direct-direct-superclasses (class-of obj)))) obj (do-my-code-pls ...)) 08:14:25 iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has joined #lisp 08:14:43 schme: Regardless of whether I can or not... the thought just popped into my head. 08:14:54 oh :) 08:15:23 yum 08:15:30 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:15:45 I mean, this would mean you could make objects pretty damn immutable 08:16:36 apply that then to a property-delegative prototype system, and doing (with-parents ...) means you can, within the scope of the macro, change values of an object according to a temporary mixin. 08:16:39 :-o 08:18:39 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:19:44 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:20:47 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:21:49 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:21:57 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B246.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:19 lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:32:10 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.129.30] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:32:36 bbe [n=bbe@121.229.145.45] has joined #lisp 08:34:18 -!- HET2 [n=diman@77.70.78.34] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:34:40 -!- semyon [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit ["leaving"] 08:36:42 semyon [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 08:38:59 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-32.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:51:37 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:54:44 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:06:44 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:29 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.201.112] has joined #lisp 09:09:34 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:09:38 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-186-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:11:15 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:12:17 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 09:12:18 nostoi [n=nostoi@5.Red-83-35-123.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:23 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:13:38 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.201.112] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:14:22 LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:15:27 Darkster [n=tim@p4FD2CDC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:27 -!- bbe [n=bbe@121.229.145.45] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:15:30 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.130.214] has joined #lisp 09:19:58 exumirabilis [n=u@dslb-084-056-131-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:16 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 09:25:26 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:25:51 clamothe [n=clamothe@c-98-232-227-219.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:44 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:26:44 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.60.227] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:27:43 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@5.Red-83-35-123.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 09:31:44 AZureljas [n=AZure@118.68.223.139] has joined #lisp 09:31:48 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 09:31:58 hello all 09:32:13 I am trying to start working with Lisp 09:32:33 when I try to make sbcl 09:32:58 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:33:15 I get this: "make-host-1.sh: 31: sbcl: not found" 09:33:35 anyone faced this problem? Could you help me? 09:33:39 AZureljas: You need a lisp to build sbcl, preferably sbcl. 09:34:01 AZureljas: What platform are you on? 09:34:11 I am on unbutu 7.10 09:34:33 so you means I need to install a lisp first? 09:34:40 Cool man. I suggest you grab the ready built binary from sbcl.org 09:35:06 Yes. That's what I mean (: 09:35:16 Nurta [n=chatzill@missouri-214.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 09:35:17 is it hard? 09:35:34 since I like to build it from the source code :) 09:35:53 user____ [n=user@p54923C15.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:53 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:20 No, not at all. What I personally would do is grab one of the binary tarballs and install that wherever, then I would build from source and install that over the previous gunk :) 09:36:27 -!- exu0 [n=u@dslb-084-056-128-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:36:35 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.201.112] has joined #lisp 09:37:19 AZureljas: What you do *not* want to do is use whatever ubuntu packages are available though ;) 09:37:24 you means to build the later source from the previous binary version? 09:37:39 yes 09:37:40 Yes, exactly. 09:37:42 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:37:47 It's a bit like you need gcc to build gcc. 09:38:01 so, that's the case 09:38:06 thank schme 09:38:16 it took me a whole day 09:38:18 :) 09:38:33 http://www.sbcl.org/getting.html has some basic information. There's also a Quick Guide in the install file. 09:38:51 iirc it is something like INSTALL_ROOT=/some/path install.sh 09:39:05 Ehehe. 09:40:03 AZureljas: any reason you are using such an old release of ubuntu? 09:40:21 because I am using Vista 09:40:38 ubuntu is such a virtual machine 09:41:11 Anyone familiar with sbcl or clisp packages for opensolaris? 09:41:56 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 09:41:56 *schme* isn't. But I imagine clisp would build just fine .. ? 09:42:03 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:43:01 perhaps 09:44:18 Any suggestions on clisp vs sbcl? Im still learning lisp, not really doing anything serious... 09:45:20 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 09:46:13 jsoft_: Ok. Lemme rephrase that. clisp builds just fine on opensolaris. I am not aware of any ready made package though :) and from http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html it seems that there are ready built binarys for Solaris x86 and sparc.. maybe those also run on opensolaris? 09:46:18 clisp gives you a nice command line 09:47:05 but it's interpreted so speed could be an issue at some point. but as, you said, you are a beginner, it probably isn't an issue 09:47:27 jsoft_: I'd go with sbcl. It seems to me that most people in #lisp use it, so it is easier to get help ;) 09:47:33 ok. 09:47:43 that's a good reason too :) 09:47:50 sweemeng [n=sweemeng@176.60.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 09:47:50 The command line is good.. but eeh. slime. 09:48:57 Hmmm.. no x86-64 of sbcl + solaris. 09:49:12 anyone have problem hunchentoot on ubuntu? 09:49:15 now I am getting sbcl from ubuntu and I build the new sbcl later. Thanks 09:49:38 you all build from scratch? 09:49:46 *sweemeng* got lazy 09:50:26 yes 09:50:38 I think it's fun :p 09:50:39 ./clbuild update sbcl ... ;) 09:50:45 i know 09:50:50 for lazy maybe write a script to oooh cd and make 09:50:56 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:01 not hard, just lazy 09:51:11 yes 09:51:15 well since it is hopeless, i will try to build it next time 09:51:22 hehe. 09:51:27 aka removing my current lisp environment 09:51:29 :)) 09:51:43 sweemeng: If it is ubuntu's lisp environment.. seems a good idea :) 09:51:44 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:51:49 I know why you fell lazy 09:52:07 schme i tried to use a few package from ubuntu doesn't work 09:52:24 AZureljas because it is a netbook, 09:52:57 sweemeng: they're evil :) you're better of being lazy as in grabbing the prebuilt binary from sbcl.org (: 09:53:06 well time for stretching :) 09:53:12 that too 09:54:31 rme [n=rme@pool-68-238-3-41.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:32 yeah, I know. Since it's the first time I go with lisp, I think I can do a little bit hard works :) 09:54:43 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:55:06 yes.... 09:55:17 jsoft_: ccl runs on solarisx86 if you'd like to try that. 09:55:32 [mark] [n=mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has joined #lisp 09:55:55 how long does it take to compile lisp anyway? 09:56:06 ccl is _quick_ 09:56:06 I dont know 09:56:10 *sigh* 09:56:19 couple of minutes, tops 09:56:19 what does _binary_ release of sbcl need gmake for. 09:56:21 I spend a day upto now 09:57:10 -!- AZureljas [n=AZure@118.68.223.139] has quit [] 09:58:46 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:59:12 just curious 09:59:25 what kind of project you guys/gals do with lisp anyway 09:59:35 anything! 09:59:46 it's a (gasp!) programming language. 09:59:47 thought so 09:59:54 yes 10:00:02 try to learn one 10:00:34 slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AD30.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:42 yangsx [n=yangsx@125.33.153.219] has joined #lisp 10:01:53 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:40 good evening 10:03:03 hi 10:03:12 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.130.214] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:03:19 how are you, sweemeng? 10:03:26 hi 10:03:33 just here for the first time 10:03:49 was here to try get hunchentoot from ubuntu repository to work 10:03:54 ah - welcome!! i'm very new here myself 10:04:19 hmm - what is the problem? i am running ubuntu on my laptop on the other side of this table 10:04:45 lisp is ok 10:04:52 but loading hunchentoot is not 10:05:17 (defpackage :testserver (:use :hunchentoot)) 10:05:20 ok i don't know if i'll be of any help but let me take a look at what i can figure 10:05:33 said there is no hunchentoot package 10:06:02 i have some wild guesses - let me try them and i'll let you know what i find in one minute 10:06:24 thanks 10:07:28 did you run "sudo apt-get install hunchentoot" in terminal already? 10:07:33 sweemeng: Regarding your question of what kind of projects we do with lisp; My main project right now is a lil' workout and diet journal. For drawing nice charts of my amazing development, and drawing nice charts of all the lovely lil' nutrients etc. 10:07:45 isismelting 10:07:47 dwave [n=ask@084202075100.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 10:07:58 isismelting yes 10:08:09 *sweemeng* is a long time debian user 10:08:30 I think what you want is to avoid the ubuntu and debian packages :) 10:08:31 just trying to see exactly where it's failing 10:08:36 schme awsome 10:08:55 isismelting i begin to reinstall from sbcl anyway 10:09:03 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:09:04 using the binary from sbcl 10:09:29 ok 10:09:37 ./clbuild install hunchentoot ;) 10:09:46 thank you schme 10:10:43 schme - i've only been here a few times but every time i'm here you're being helpful & polite to many people. cheers! 10:11:10 isismelting i suspect we need to asdf-install hunchentoot 10:11:11 isismelting: You must be catching me on my off days (: 10:11:17 *sweemeng* might be wrong 10:11:54 sweemeng: Yes. You do not need to asdf-install it. It might very well work that way, but clbuild is just.. easier :) 10:12:04 arrr 10:12:05 got it 10:13:12 so most of the people here is professional lisp programmer, or work on other stuff 10:13:14 ? 10:14:35 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@221.237.119.86] has joined #lisp 10:14:44 -!- jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:14:50 jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 10:15:15 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has left #lisp 10:15:18 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 10:16:01 it is amazing that sbcl have latest version for amd64 but not x86 10:16:46 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B246.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:18:22 -!- slash__ is now known as slash_ 10:18:31 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 10:18:38 -!- Nurta [n=chatzill@missouri-214.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has left #lisp 10:19:15 i'm far from a professional - i am 23 years old and with autism, but i love LISP. i work by myself 10:20:23 *schme* isn't even in the IT industry (: 10:20:37 that is interesting mix 10:20:41 real interesting 10:20:57 schme it is a good thing, IT industry can be boring, at least at my place 10:21:55 is anyone here vaguely involved with unlambda.com ? 10:22:10 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@195.230.105.2] has joined #lisp 10:22:39 what do you do exactly sweemeng, for work? 10:22:51 software tester for a bank 10:22:54 & schme, what is your profession? 10:23:01 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 10:23:01 cobol and mainframe stuff 10:23:03 >.<|| 10:23:32 isismelting: Actually I work in the metal working industry. Mostly I make holes in, and deform, metal. 10:23:38 that sounds lovely, sweemeng - maybe if not quite challenging enough for you? 10:23:53 preciselly isismelting 10:24:01 but the system is big enough 10:24:08 complex enough 10:24:20 programming skill is needed for debugging etc 10:24:29 but really wanted to be creative 10:24:50 where do you live? 10:25:01 malaysia 10:25:02 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-68-238-3-41.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 10:25:10 schme - metal working...that is something i know nothing of! 10:25:25 in the city of kuala lumpur 10:25:48 the country is below thailand, above singapore 10:26:16 on the right of indonesia on the left of philipines 10:26:23 i am in california in the US 10:26:34 awsome place 10:26:39 i wonder what time it is where you are? 10:27:02 630pm 10:27:14 6:30pm 10:27:44 schme i am interested in to what sort of projects your metal working skills are applied? 10:27:54 oh it is 2:30(am) here 10:27:57 schme it is interesting really 10:28:02 yeah, 10:28:08 amazing really 10:28:54 -!- Darkster is now known as tst__ 10:29:28 isismelting: At the moment we make a lot of this kind of thing: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/141/346022506_c5f11e9563_o.jpg 10:30:00 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:30:25 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 10:30:26 schme that is COOLS 10:30:31 is it wind energy then? 10:30:33 that is great! 10:30:42 Not those exact ones, but that kinda thing. 10:30:55 and various.. stuffs. 10:30:56 heh. 10:31:17 what a cool thing of which to be a part. where are you located schme? 10:31:53 I'm in Sweden. 10:31:57 indeed cool 10:32:06 nice place to live 10:32:32 It's not too bad. 10:32:44 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@221.237.119.86] has quit [Success] 10:32:56 Especially now that the swedish money is worth nothing it is very nice :) 10:33:00 *schme* gets paid in danish money ;) 10:33:06 hehe 10:33:09 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:33:55 It's all ok. 'cept I have to work with autolisp (: 10:34:12 for work? 10:34:29 Yup. 10:34:32 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:35:01 cad thingy? 10:35:35 Yup. 10:35:43 awsome 10:36:26 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:36:31 need to add the path to make sbcl work better 10:36:33 Well not really, but ok ;) 10:37:18 hunchentoot gave me no problems using clbuild 10:37:26 (by the way) 10:37:29 -!- tst__ [n=tim@p4FD2CDC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 10:37:30 got that isismelting 10:37:42 you have a macro for (by the way)? 10:37:43 tim [n=tim@p4FD2CDC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:48 *sweemeng* trying to be funny 10:37:55 :) 10:38:15 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-81.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:38:16 -!- tim is now known as tst__ 10:38:26 isismelting: What problems? 10:39:16 nil 10:39:22 well i ran into a problem in that i didn't have cbuild 10:39:32 but ubuntu is child proof so i figured it out 10:39:42 *clbuild 10:39:55 clbuild need to install manually? 10:40:31 no i used apt-get to get darcs & used get http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/clbuild 10:40:49 then after that running ./clbuild check told me which package to apt-get 10:41:26 ubuntu linux for human beings 10:42:19 i love ubuntu - does that mean i will get made fun of at linux conventions 10:42:22 sweemeng: that's why i don't like it 10:42:38 stassats is a hardcore techie ehh 10:42:59 stassats do you use the debian? 10:43:28 isismelting in a environment where there is more windows user, linux tends to be ubuntu 10:43:35 ubuntu == linux 10:43:43 isismelting: yes 10:44:26 -!- X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has left #lisp 10:44:44 vy [n=user@88.224.114.153] has joined #lisp 10:45:11 stassats: do you think ubuntu could serve as an effective stepping-stone for people between windows and debian? 10:45:51 oh 10:45:51 i'd like to use debian eventually -- but right now i don't know WHY i want to, i was just told that i do by people who seem cooler than me. but won't ubuntu help me figure it out? 10:45:53 isismelting: ubuntu is great, if you like it, i was just joking about not being a human 10:45:59 it is the year for linux on the desktop I hear. 10:46:07 schme haha 10:46:22 I don't understand the stepping stone thing. 10:46:38 it used to be linux is a bit hard to do on linux, 10:46:48 ubuntu change it in a way that 10:46:58 now i don't even need command line tools anymore 10:47:33 ~10 years ago i tried to put debian linux on my home desktop & i ended up giving up 10:47:39 You say it like it is a good thing :) 10:47:40 Hmmm.. 10:47:51 keep in mind i'm an idiot and i'm sure there are a lot less driver issues now etcetera? 10:47:56 and by ubuntu some people mean the linux distribution that has newer packages from debian or ubuntu the gnome ui 10:47:58 I went from windows -> slackware back in 1994 . It was no problem. 10:48:01 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:48:15 i bet you are talking about the gnome ui 10:48:34 isismelting: There are no driver issues if you buy the right hardware (: 10:48:47 unfortunately i'm speaking from windows vista 10:48:54 because of my M-Audio FireWire 410 10:48:58 argh! 10:49:06 I thought m-audio had good linux support. 10:49:17 if you know where it is PLEASE link me 10:49:23 i can't find it for the life of me 10:49:39 can any of the popular Lisp IDEs dump the current state and load it later? 10:50:04 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:50:21 isismelting: Well I dunno really. The deltas work great. Maybe not the firewire thing. 10:50:38 slime can't without a hassle 10:50:55 This why we need the IDE written in lisp (: 10:51:00 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:51:33 schme - are you into any sort of audio production? 10:52:02 well, that won't help, the problem is with threads, socket connections, etc. 10:52:18 isismelting: It is one of my hobbies actually :) Another one of my hobbies is screaming at CL for refusing to work swell with jackd (: 10:52:34 stassats: oh ya. Good point. 10:53:00 I thought squeak smalltalk saved the whole world + IDE without much hassle though? 10:53:20 *sweemeng* must remember that (swank-loader:init) is not equal to (swank-loader :init) 10:53:29 space makes a big different..... 10:54:14 sweemeng: Question is.. why does it make a difference? What's the diffence between (swank-loader:init) and (swank-loader :init) ? :) 10:54:20 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-188.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:54:35 schme (swank-loader:init) gives me a error 10:54:56 isismelting: To be perfectly honest I don't think linux is a good choice for pro audio. I'd go with an apple then, with some nice DSP hardware, and the protools. but for hobby stuff, it's all sweet :) 10:55:09 sweemeng: Yeah, I know it does (: 10:55:12 schme, the problem with Smalltalk is that it's really its own world. I want to be able to communicate w/ the outside, i.e. I still want files and such. 10:55:24 schme it says swank-loader not found 10:55:27 either way 10:55:33 swank done 10:55:49 tic: I'm not sure if it even works to save it all off. It seems to support accessing unix sockets etc. too. (: 10:55:59 tic: i thought squeak can do that 10:56:05 tic: That is your problem right there! Stop communicating! 10:56:15 schme - http://www.myspace.com/aspiralformation 10:56:28 It can.. I mean they run webservers on it. But eeeh.. it can't very well store everything. 10:56:31 stassats, then it's just me not being able to find my way around it. 10:56:48 (if you'd like to hear some of my work -- i'd like to hear some of yours if you have a link/links) 10:57:13 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:57:14 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:57:39 isismelting you use the stock lisp from repository to use clbuild? 10:58:31 isismelting: Hmm.. are there any download links? I don't quite have flash here :) 10:58:54 yes let me find something 10:59:06 isismelting: and no, sadly I have no links for shit. But I'll see if maybe we can move some of the current stuff from the other box to some webhost. 11:00:07 ( http://www.meerkat.cc/mp3/ten_lions_test_1a.mp3 & http://www.meerkat.cc/mp3/tl/ten_lions_b_2.mp3 ) 11:01:02 sweemeng i don't really understand that question - i use slime & emacs. is that relevant? :/ 11:01:32 clbuild you download from ubuntu repository or from the original source 11:02:11 oh i downloaded "darcs" from repository 11:02:25 darcs get http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/clbuild 11:02:34 then it told me the rest of the packages to apt-get 11:02:48 (when i tried ./clbuild check) 11:03:00 got it 11:04:27 sweemeng: if swank-loader package is not found, you need to load slime/swank-loader.lisp first 11:04:38 done that already 11:04:47 stassats swanks is installed 11:04:59 it is settle stassats 11:05:21 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4630.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 11:05:26 so, there are no problems? 11:05:59 nope 11:06:08 it is successfully compiled 11:06:17 yay 11:07:26 not to get hunchenfoot 11:07:33 hunchentoot 11:09:03 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 11:09:21 hello tcr 11:09:21 fe[nl]ix, memo from _death: two things: wait->timeout doesn't handle nil correctly (missing parens for case), and in call-with-socket-to-wait-connect, `timeout' should be substituted for `wait' in the expression (and wait (plusp wait)) 11:10:13 hi fe[nl]ix 11:10:39 fe[nl]ix: Will you be in Milan in May? 11:10:45 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:10:52 tcr: certainly :) 11:11:24 -!- iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has quit ["I am Iceman, Linux hero of time!"] 11:11:30 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@125.33.153.219] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:11:37 tcr: will you be able to come ? 11:12:03 isismelting: That 1a one is good shit :) You should come play the clubs here! 11:12:03 isismelting last confirmation 11:12:21 nevermind false alarm 11:13:13 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:13 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:13:17 -!- tabb0t [n=tabb0t@122.172.124.133] has quit [] 11:13:40 schme - i'm really glad you like it! it's the title track off my "ten lions LP" - maybe if i get lucky i'll play sweden one day 11:14:07 fe[nl]ix: I'm considering it. Although I do not know how much I can attent as I'll take my gf with me. 11:16:59 farewell channel, it is time for a nap 11:17:53 -!- Zephtar [n=srusek@d57-112.icpnet.pl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]"] 11:18:14 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:21 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:21:37 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.201.112] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:28:44 hmmm slime don't seems to work 11:29:37 yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:31:31 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:32:35 sweemeng: in what way? 11:32:48 so i get it from cvs 11:33:00 and m-x slime[no match] 11:33:05 in emacs 11:33:30 well, you need to load it in emacs first 11:33:34 Sounds like a problem in front of the monitor 11:34:44 enlighten me? 11:35:26 put (add-to-list 'load-path "path/to/slime") (require 'slime) (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) in your .emacs 11:36:12 done that 11:36:42 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:37:38 check *Messages* when you start emacs 11:38:46 http://pastebin.com/d7714cf00 11:40:24 -!- clamothe [n=clamothe@c-98-232-227-219.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:41:04 http://pastebin.com/m527c6c96 11:41:13 i put the error message in pastebin 11:41:53 galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:07 -!- drafael1 is now known as drafael 11:42:37 ', not  11:42:58 wait.... 11:43:00 got it 11:43:39 and you'd better use (slime-setup ...) what i posted 11:44:41 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:26 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4630.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:45:29 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 11:46:01 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:46:36 stassats where did you post (slime-setup...) 11:47:10 found it 11:48:23 -!- ap [n=ap@c211-30-183-171.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:48:32 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:49:08 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 11:49:49 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:50:01 done 11:50:06 typo.... 11:51:41 -!- saikat [n=saikat@71.95.206.82] has quit [] 11:56:16 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:57:35 is this true ? 11:57:37 http://www.hackerbliss.org/2009/02/functions-with-pattern-matching.html 11:58:19 Cheshire: what do you mean by "true"? 11:59:31 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:01:27 It's on the internet, of course it is true. 12:01:36 ok 12:01:44 yes the internet is serious business 12:02:41 I just think the implementation of bmp is quite horrendous 12:02:45 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:03:00 you could probably implement a better pattern matcher in C++ template macros.. 12:03:08 (or scheme template macros :p) 12:03:45 Cheshire: you could propably implement a better pattern matcher in lisp, too. 12:03:52 thank you 12:04:31 Have a look at Qi, perhaps. 12:04:56 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.136.38] has joined #lisp 12:05:44 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:06:22 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:55 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:15:54 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has quit ["Valete!"] 12:17:28 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 12:18:12 wondering why slime always points to wrong directory 12:18:34 points? 12:18:46 <_3b> did you install debian (or derivative) slime at some point? 12:19:10 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-81.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:20:07 yes _3b 12:20:13 but uninstalled aalready 12:20:14 <_3b> or if you mean it works but working directory isn't what you expect, try ,change-directory at the slime repl 12:20:35 <_3b> it doesn't uninstall all the way, it leaves a config file somewhere under /etc 12:20:57 *_3b* doesn't remember the option to tell it to get rid of that too though 12:21:13 dpkg --purge whatever 12:23:19 thanks stassats _3b 12:24:32 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:24:47 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AD30.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 12:24:59 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AD30.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:12 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:27:23 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:28:15 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:30:21 clbuild is awsome 12:31:01 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:32:39 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:27 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:40:08 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-54.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:40:34 -!- dwave [n=ask@084202075100.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 12:45:04 I'm not very satisfied with the database support my implementation or other lisp packages offer me. Is it possible to code my own wrapper around the C lib of the database with a FFI? I'm not sure how well this will work and before I put effort in this, I better ask here. 12:45:59 <_3b> it should work reasonably, are you sure it hasn't been done yet though? 12:54:56 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:55:07 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:57:05 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:58:26 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:58:56 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:59:24 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:38 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:15 -!- user____ [n=user@p54923C15.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 13:11:40 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:13:57 _3b: it has been done, but those wrappers either don't work on my implementation or do not offer the functionality I need. 13:14:36 what wrappers, what implementation, what functionality? 13:17:07 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:09 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:20:53 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-166-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:06 brandelune [n=suzume@pl064.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:26:43 -!- yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:26:49 -!- mcox [n=markcox@203-214-39-177.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:26:53 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-47-203.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:59 G'morning all. 13:27:02 hey nyef 13:27:26 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Out of Memory: Killed process [9823] xchat."] 13:27:57 *sweemeng* realize i am in the wrong country 13:29:05 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 13:32:29 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:34:00 twiki7619 [n=twiki@host25-117-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:34:10 hi... 13:34:53 twiki7619: hi 13:35:51 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:36:24 suggestions for the best book on emacs-lisp? 13:36:42 ... Asking #emacs? Or just going with The Fine Manual? 13:36:44 emacs lisp intro, and then emacs lisp manual 13:36:53 but we are talking about common lisp here 13:37:16 ok.... only common-lisp? 13:37:34 yes, mostly 13:37:51 We've had occasional breakouts of ISLISP, EuLISP and ZetaLisp, but we're primarily a Common Lisp channel. 13:38:24 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:39:05 ....pardon.... i'm concerned on emacs-lisp.... good chat ......by 13:39:11 -!- twiki7619 [n=twiki@host25-117-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 13:39:51 *sweemeng* learn not to update-missing using clbuild 13:40:02 damn, didn't get to convert him 13:40:14 stassats can't save everyone 13:40:35 "You can't save everyone. Where would you keep them?" 13:41:51 but but... jesus saves... 13:42:44 ... I forget how that goes. Jesus saves, # invests, but only # pays dividends. 13:43:00 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 13:43:30 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 13:51:23 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 13:51:53 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:04 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:53:03 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:52 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:55:22 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:56:26 elurin [n=user@88.231.223.140] has joined #lisp 13:56:44 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1DBD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:59 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1EA67.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:21 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F804.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:03 mega1 [n=mega@pool-0242b.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:08:52 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:09 -!- jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:09:15 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-44-93.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 14:11:06 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:33 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:11 jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:18 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:29:04 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:57 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D5A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:25 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:35:53 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:36:11 -!- sweemeng [n=sweemeng@176.60.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:37:29 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:42:19 md` [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 14:43:57 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@195.230.105.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:43:59 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:44:23 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:48:05 Hi, we have an Lisp application in SBCL/Linux (SBCL 1.0.23) on x86-64 2 cores, and recently we have experienced situation, where SBCL became unresponsive and most of the time was spent in kernel. I would like to know what can we do in such situation to find out what's going on. Swank and all Lisp part was consuming almost 100% CPU (according to top), however gkrellm tells me that the time spent by SBCL was in kernel space. Any ideas? 14:48:49 Can you get a backtrace on that SBCL? 14:49:03 not really, SBCL was completely unresponsive 14:49:24 I tries M-x slime-list-threads, but swank portion was unresponsive 14:49:45 appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:50:16 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:28 The first failure mode I'd consider is having run out of file descriptors, which is at least partially checkable via lsof. 14:51:05 Beyond that, maybe something to do with signal handling, possibly stop-for-gc? 14:51:24 Would that manifest itself like halted SBCL? 14:51:39 or maybe the kernel bug that mega1 was talking about yesterday related to semaphores? 14:52:29 I guess SBCL uses a lot of semaphores? Because we use that just on one place. 14:52:36 Krystof is talking about this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/332002 14:53:11 I think it is the futexes ... 14:53:14 I don't think sbcl uses any semaphores itself, but I could be wrong 14:53:18 futexes, on the other hand 14:53:31 It does use one per make-thread. 14:54:01 And threaded slime spawns a new thread for M-x slime-list-threads, doesn't it? 14:55:20 And, is there some way how to find out better what's going on? Since SBCL is not responsive, I guess there is some way to see what is going on in kernel - since that was the place where the time was spent? 14:55:27 md`: attaching gdb and getting backtraces for all threads 14:55:33 strace -p too 14:55:44 mega1: thanks! 14:55:53 threads apply all ba 100 14:56:19 that's for GDB I guess.. 14:56:36 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:57:04 yup 14:57:46 md`: still there were some threading bugs fixed since 1.0.23 14:59:26 I guess that using lockfree queues by Nikodemus probably does not cause the problem? Is anybody except us using them? 14:59:57 bad_alloc [n=marvin@HSI-KBW-091-089-218-154.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:00:07 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:00:35 hello 15:00:55 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:02:48 md`: I don't know the answer the either question. However, I guess that a lockless queue would not take much time in the kernel ... 15:03:24 mega1: thanks. we will upgrade to new SBCL and see what happens 15:03:43 md`: so is it reproducible? 15:04:54 not really, it happened first time and we could not reproduce it since then (it's realtime game, hard to get to exactly same situation) 15:06:19 -!- oxygen [i=oxygen@unaffiliated/oxygen] has left #lisp 15:06:51 md`: also from gdb: thread apply all call backtrace_from_fp($rbp,1000) 15:10:20 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:59 mega1: thanks. I am wondering whether this kind of behaviour is possible to trigger with user code only, assuming that SBCL does not have a bug in this area? 15:11:01 -!- mikezor_ is now known as mikezor 15:11:08 <_3b> mega1: building with your version of the win32 patch now 15:12:26 md`: there are too many unknowns. 15:12:40 _3b: great 15:13:12 yangsx [n=yangsx@221.221.240.212] has joined #lisp 15:13:13 thanks for help! bye 15:13:13 the other day I was told that the scheduling instructions would not be a big win on x86 15:13:43 why is that? 15:14:11 shouldn't it be a win after a mispredicted branch for instance? 15:19:09 Why would it be advantageous to implement a stack and not use C's stack when writing a lisp in C? 15:19:09 mega1: They'll certainly make it easier to point to IA-64 15:19:12 *p_l* ducks 15:19:14 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.136.38] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:19:43 unwind-protect comes to mind. 15:20:54 Garbage collection might be another. 15:21:18 _3b pasted "win32 build errors" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76321 15:21:24 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:54 -!- bad_alloc [n=marvin@HSI-KBW-091-089-218-154.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit ["You shoot yourself in somebody else's foot."] 15:22:12 There is no stack in C. 15:22:20 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:23:15 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-44-93.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:23:16 -!- md` [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:23:51 <_3b> probably easier to save continuations if you control the stack too, if the lisp you implement has those 15:23:51 mega1 annotated #76321 "for _3b" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76321#1 15:25:42 is it only for me that foreign.test.sh fails with "OSTYPE not set"? 15:25:50 Krystof: Not only you. 15:26:14 ok 15:26:21 Krystof: Hasn't happend to me yet, but apparently has something to do with some shells not setting OSTYPE. 15:26:42 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:08 But note that modern versions of bash always set OSTYPE, even for new subshells. 15:27:17 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:31 ah, but our scripts are #!/bin/sh 15:27:51 which sh? 15:28:24 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Jul 26 2008 /bin/sh -> bash 15:28:44 Would be part of why it doesn't break for many people. 15:29:15 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:29:18 <_3b> mega1: looks better (once i fixed the diff), trying full build 15:29:37 *_3b* wonders if lisppaste ate the ^L or what 15:29:39 many "modern" distributions are migrating /bin/sh towards more minimal shells (e.g. dash) 15:30:30 -!- jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:30:46 many already switched years ago to pdksh or dash 15:31:25 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:31:46 _3b: so it seems 15:34:52 <_3b> wonder if "x86-arch.c:74: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules" will cause any problems 15:35:40 <_3b> seem to remember gcc making assumptions about those rules not being broken lately 15:36:42 at -O2 or higher, iirc 15:37:14 <_3b> this code appears to be -O3 15:39:10 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.35.61] has joined #lisp 15:39:51 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 15:42:08 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:42:27 _3b: as far as I can tell that function is not used on win32 15:42:55 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:44:31 ... Why wouldn't it be used on win32? 15:47:53 nyef: because only arrange_return_to_lisp_function uses it 15:48:13 ah, that's not quite true 15:48:18 Debugger? 15:48:37 I'd have thought it called from the core in places. 15:48:38 arch_do_displaced_inst 15:49:20 and restore_breakpoint_... 15:51:05 I don't think the strict-aliasing will be much of a problem, though, as we don't access that slot any other way in any function we compile. 15:54:40 <_3b> mega1: build completed OK 15:54:56 I'll commit it. 15:58:15 done. 15:59:17 now that I don't know anything more about instruction scheduling on x86, I wonder about aligning branch targets 15:59:33 <_3b> any idea how long it takes to get to the git mirrors? 15:59:43 Hour or so, isn't it? 15:59:49 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:55 <_3b> ok, i'll wait a while and try building it from there once it propagates 16:02:35 mega1: scheduling doesn't pay off that much because the chip can do it fairly well, dynamically, and thus with access to better information (e.g. cache misses) 16:03:27 aligning branch targets is easy and can easily have a positive effect. 16:05:31 pkhuong: wouldn't it benefit still when the code in question is new to it (not in its cache?)? 16:06:21 mega1: Wouldn't it be better to use cache control instructions for that? 16:06:32 mega1: what do you mean? 16:07:36 mega1: thanks 16:07:41 pkhuong: freshly compiled/loaded? 16:07:43 pkhuong: I don't know how the cpu does the scheduling. I suppose that it keeps around the necessary info only for a smallish set of instructions. 16:09:17 mega1: no, it's really dynamic, with basically a list of instructions that are ready to be executed or depend/anti-depend on one that hasn't been executed yet. 16:09:54 and said list afaik is a fixed-length array with size dependant on cpu in question 16:10:02 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@XPLR-TS-10-VAN-67-201-133-74.barrettxplore.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:18 pkhuong: then what happens when a branch is mispredicted? 16:10:58 isn't the cpu facing a cold cache problem having to look ahead to far while executing the first few instructions? 16:11:13 cache is not the right word ... 16:12:25 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:30 mega1: yes, but that doesn't affect scheduling. It is however a reason why aligning targets is useful: you don't risk loading a cache line for only a couple bytes of instructions. 16:12:31 mega1: it has to clean pipelines on branch misprediction, in most cases 16:12:51 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:14:09 thanks, I understand it now 16:15:48 clhs e-d-e 16:15:48 ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ensu_1.htm 16:16:53 user_ [n=user@p549249A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:45 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:45 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-46.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 16:23:01 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:25 Krystof: that leaves only the hppa bit as outstanding 16:24:38 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:25:33 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:25:38 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E44CB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:05 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 16:26:08 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@220-135-231-23.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:27:54 mega1: yeah. Did you try it on mips? 16:28:17 I haven't checked it with gdb yet. 16:28:29 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@221.221.240.212] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:30:12 plus I don't understand why the code in question doesn't use load-symbol-value 16:31:25 gilberth [n=gilbert@c205143.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:17 Fulax [n=cyprien@85-171-65-14.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:32:32 hi gilberth 16:32:47 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-194-65.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:32:56 hello Krystof. 16:33:08 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-194-65.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:44 Krystof: I even have a question for you, assuming you are still with portable-clx, is there a mailing list for CLX that is still active? 16:34:32 I'm using ECL, Emacs, and slime. I started a simple buffer, with C-c C-f, typed a (defun), tried to compile it with C-c C-c, but I get a "serious signal 6 caught".. what am I doing wrong? btw, if I just do M-C-x, the defun macro evaluates just fine 16:36:40 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:37:20 gilberth: I think the same one as before. "active" is not quite right, mind you 16:37:47 portable-clx @ web.metacircles.com 16:37:56 hm,no, wait 16:38:36 maybe that's not active 16:39:14 I need a secretary :-/ 16:39:17 I am not the only one confused about that matter, it seems. good. 16:39:27 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-145-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:02 Anyhow, I was contemplating to use the XML protocol descriptions that are there for XCB to implement the missing extensions. Unfortunately the XKB extensions is not supported by XCB either. 16:45:29 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:45:51 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:46:41 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:47:22 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Connexion switch"] 16:48:19 zarquon [n=user@lisp.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 16:48:35 Krystof: I get the same on mips too, trying to compile with load-symbol-value now 16:48:36 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:48:50 ... will take an age. 16:50:54 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:51:12 -!- galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:53:12 -!- zarquon [n=user@lisp.xs4all.nl] has left #lisp 16:53:25 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 16:54:51 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-166-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:55:10 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-166-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:32 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:55:47 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 16:57:41 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E46329.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:28 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:33 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:05:56 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F804.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:05:59 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:11:04 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:12:09 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:12:56 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 17:13:43 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F804.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:11 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E44CB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:20:06 -!- vy [n=user@88.224.114.153] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:26:22 ravster [n=user@dsl-67-204-4-150.acanac.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:28 Hello all 17:27:46 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 17:28:00 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 17:29:30 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.51.245] has joined #lisp 17:30:58 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:34 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:34:13 Buganini [n=buganini@220-135-231-23.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:58 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:35:32 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:37 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E46329.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 17:39:43 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:57 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-92.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 17:41:13 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:18 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 17:42:20 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:42:31 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-115-139.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 17:43:16 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:25 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:42 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 17:46:51 -!- [mark] [n=mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:48:57 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-166-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:49:47 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:49:59 -!- user_ [n=user@p549249A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:51:49 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 17:52:17 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:23 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 17:55:03 dwave [n=ask@084202075100.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 17:55:16 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:56 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.51.245] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:57:59 user_ [n=user@p549247D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:21 mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075691pcs.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 18:00:27 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [] 18:00:50 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:01:21 gefla_ [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:01:21 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:01:22 -!- gefla_ [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 18:01:35 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:02:24 gefla_ [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:02:24 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:02:35 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:02:35 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 18:02:35 -!- gefla_ [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:02:56 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:03:29 gefla_ [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:03:29 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:03:41 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:03:41 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 18:03:41 -!- gefla_ [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:03:53 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:04:00 gefla: could you stop? 18:05:01 gefla_ [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:05:01 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:05:40 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:05:40 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 18:05:40 -!- gefla_ [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:06:40 gilesroberts [n=gilesrob@user-514fd48c.l3.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:07:23 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:27 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:08:33 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:08:35 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:08:35 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 18:08:49 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:12:33 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 18:13:02 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:15 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:13:21 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:14:31 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:36 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-204-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:34 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:16:35 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:49 -!- gilesroberts [n=gilesrob@user-514fd48c.l3.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 18:20:05 gilesroberts [n=gilesrob@user-514fd48c.l3.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:20:40 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 18:21:26 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-204-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:21:26 -!- xx283 [n=xx@p4FD3C74A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:21:43 xx283 [n=xx@p4FD3F62B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:45 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-204-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:49 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 18:21:58 Bzoto [n=pradella@host176-100-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:25:55 -!- gilesroberts [n=gilesrob@user-514fd48c.l3.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit ["leaving"] 18:26:47 gilesroberts [n=gilesrob@user-514fd48c.l3.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:27:52 -!- gilesroberts [n=gilesrob@user-514fd48c.l3.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:28:29 gilesroberts [n=gilesrob@user-514fd48c.l3.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:29:39 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:30:34 hello 18:30:45 -!- gilesroberts [n=gilesrob@user-514fd48c.l3.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:00 hi 18:31:02 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.35.61] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:32:54 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-0242b.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:32:56 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:35:32 -!- Bzoto [n=pradella@host176-100-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 18:36:42 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:40:19 manuel [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:36 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:36 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:41:57 -!- manuel [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:42:01 manuel [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:42:43 hi, has anybody tried any wrapper around parenscript that lets you build javascript and lisp program from the same source? 18:43:12 of course, with caveats, i.e. no javascript dom calls, and no intricate lisp constructs 18:44:45 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 18:46:57 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:47:45 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:47:53 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:02 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-204-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:48:29 harmattan [n=harmatta@213.37.174.213.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:00 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:52:02 puchacz - why do you have those caveats? You want JS apart from the DOM and you want CL apart from... CL? 18:54:41 ayrniu: I can wrap/abstract DOM calls in other functions, I simply wanted a way to program some processing code that could be executed both in a browser, and on a server. Think html parser would be an example. I know that there are html parsers both in javascript and lisp, but that's not the point. I want a custom code for processing tasks like this. 18:55:06 sry, I misspelled: ayrnieu 18:55:23 So, you're looking for a subset language and libraries for compiling both to CL and JS? 18:55:37 nyef: exactly 18:55:49 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:56:01 -!- exumirabilis [n=u@dslb-084-056-131-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 18:56:15 "I don't have a solution, but I can certainly appreciate the problem." 18:56:21 transliterating rather than fancy compiling would be a better description :-) 18:56:40 I don't want fancy transformations, I need it still debuggable 18:56:51 Still compilation, in some respects. 18:56:57 you could use javascript on the server :) 18:57:14 would do, can I run Javascript it in CL? 18:58:38 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-115-139.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:00:12 Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-95-163.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:00:22 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-3-190.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:38 morning 19:01:05 Hello slyrus_. 19:01:23 hey nyef. what's new? 19:01:54 Messing about with an Alpha disassembler. 19:02:10 -!- harmattan [n=harmatta@213.37.174.213.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:02:23 harmattan [n=harmatta@213.37.174.213.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:48 Incomplete as it is, it's more reliable than doing it by hand. 19:05:27 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:16 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:35 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 19:10:43 weirdo [n=sthalik@c154-54.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:10:46 oh hi 19:10:54 Don't know how to REQUIRE SB-BSD-SOCKETS. 19:11:03 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:11:31 that happened after a switch to amd64 19:11:32 $SBCL_HOME 19:11:44 Or maybe dead fasls? 19:11:57 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 19:12:01 where? install dir? 19:12:37 could it be that it's missing some includes? 19:13:22 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-115-139.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:06 weirdo - if you installed sbcl into /usr/local/ , you should have a /usr/local/lib/sbcl/sb-bsd-sockets ; do you? 19:14:16 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:14:25 ayrnieu, i don't 19:14:31 still working on lisp settings i see. 19:14:33 could it be because of ubuntu's moronicity? 19:14:39 configuration galore in here. 19:14:50 it doesn't send RST packets to closed ports 19:15:04 weirdo - possibly. You could fight ubuntu, or you could take your working but incomplete SBCL and compile a proper SBCL with it. 19:16:25 worth a try. too bad the build process doesn't scale to many cores, though 19:16:26 saikat [n=saikat@71.95.206.82] has joined #lisp 19:16:48 -!- saikat [n=saikat@71.95.206.82] has quit [Client Quit] 19:17:29 if you've a machine with many cores, the build process will only take a few minutes. 19:17:51 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 19:19:43 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.2] has joined #lisp 19:20:29 Can someone explain the #1 = (programmable . #1#) in the topic? 19:20:51 clhs #= 19:20:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dho.htm 19:22:23 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:23:03 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:10 fisxoj, it's a very long list 19:24:14 very, very, very long 19:24:56 yonkeltron [n=user@unaffiliated/yonkeltron] has joined #lisp 19:25:00 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-95-163.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:25:10 so, it evaluates to something like #1=(programmable . (programmable . (programmable . ( ..... ? 19:26:06 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:26:11 It _reads_ to something like that. 19:26:19 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:26:31 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:26:49 and the distinction between those two is, as of yet, lost on me... 19:26:58 read and evaluated, that is 19:27:03 pkhuong_ [n=pkhuong@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:27:30 i'm having some trouble getting started with parenscript and was wondering if someone could give me some help. the trouble seems to be with getting parenscript loaded. i tried a simple (require 'parenscript) but functions which "should" work like ps and even parenscript didn't work. so then i figured maybe ps:ps or parenscript:ps, etc might work but they also failed. after, i figured it might do well to try (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 19:27:30 :parenscript) but that also did not give me what i needed. what am i doing wrong? 19:29:18 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:42 fisxoj: Notice that the list that is thus constructed is not infinite but cyclic. 19:31:25 tcr: I can see it's cyclic, but, isn't it also infinite? 19:38:04 fisxoj: It's not infinite in so far as you can determine an end of it (the last cons cell which then points to the first cons cell) 19:38:43 fisxoj: Using lazy evaluation you can construct truly infinite lists, for example a list containing all natural numbers. 19:38:55 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:21 How do you do that? 19:40:36 fisxoj: By making the CDR of a cons cell a thunk. See the SICP chapter about streams (sic) 19:41:49 toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-63-237.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:31 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:42:39 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-150-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:43:47 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:49 Hi, I have (I'm afraid) a silly question; I want to pass a list of symbol-value pairs to let as an argument, so that I can make a function that takes a quoted symbol-value list and passes it along 19:43:58 chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-211-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:30 however if I make it like (defun foo (sv) (let sv (...))) let complains that its var list ends with an atom 19:45:00 clhs progv 19:45:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_progv.htm 19:45:24 toxeus: ^ 19:45:27 clhs getf 19:45:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_getf.htm 19:46:37 it really needs to accept e.g. '((a t) (b nil)), I guess I could recursively go through and put caars and cadars into the right lists for progv 19:46:39 sb-bsd-sockets doesn't pass a test 19:46:53 any way i can rerun it to see why it's failing? it scrolled down way past the scrollback buffer 19:46:55 weirdo: Let me guess... the DNS lookup failure test? 19:47:06 Have a look in output/building* 19:47:11 -!- chris2_ is now known as chris2 19:47:17 toxeus: i'm not sure about the "recursive", but yes. 19:47:38 nyef, SB-BSD-SOCKETS-TEST::INET-SOCKET-BIND 19:48:40 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:48:48 thanks 19:49:34 Actual value: #. 19:52:41 -!- user_ [n=user@p549247D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:53:59 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-145-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:56:25 -!- jfactor [n=john@student165-220.hampshire.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:56:51 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:57:30 stassats`: Do not include the changelog addition into your diff. Just in your mail. 19:57:42 stassats`: (it's likely to cause conflicts) 19:58:05 user_ [n=user@p54924BC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:02 ok 20:00:52 stassats`: When does your slime-asdf matter? I mean what can I do to see the modified prompt? 20:01:01 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:01:51 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp100.studby.uio.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:03:05 tcr: when in the current directory there is an *.asd file 20:06:20 I didn't know that. How do you take leverage of that? I very seldom do M-x cd 20:07:05 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:07:25 brb 20:07:28 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:08:16 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 20:08:28 tcr: if you start slime from the buffer, it inherits its directory, and i actually don't use that feature and i always need to edit that inserted input, that's why i changed it 20:09:13 I see. Yes I remember being annoyed by those, too. 20:09:20 I never knew where it took that up 20:09:21 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit ["brb"] 20:09:30 Thanks, I'll apply the patch. 20:09:54 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 20:09:55 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 20:09:55 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 20:11:13 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 20:12:30 -!- manuel [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 20:15:53 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:16:10 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:57 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:03 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:45 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:20:46 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 20:20:52 Why doesn't this work?: (let ((a t)) (eval '(and a a))) ==> EVAL: variable A has no value 20:21:19 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:21:20 toxeus: Because eval evaluates in a different lexical context. 20:22:04 stassats`: why did you remove the file-name-sans-extension? 20:22:26 toxeus, do this instead: (let ((a t)) (and a a)) 20:22:29 why does it work if I use (progv '(a) '(t) ...) instead? 20:22:48 toxeus: Because progv does dynamic binding, not lexical binding. 20:22:51 Cheshire: I need to pass the function that uses A in 20:23:01 that didn't make sense 20:23:31 Or you could try (let ((a t)) (declare (special a)) (eval '(and a a))). 20:24:20 tcr: it is called in the loop too 20:24:41 Cheshire: I'm just testing what works so I can write a different function that will use e.g. (foo '((a t) (b t)) '(and a (not b))) 20:24:56 toxeus, don't do it this way 20:25:02 toxeus, EVAL doesn't solve this problem 20:25:04 it's homework, I have no choice! 20:25:08 hmm 20:25:15 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:36 well, it works somewhat with progv 20:26:14 if I collect the symbols and values into lists, I can just use eval on the sentence passed in 20:26:50 no 20:26:57 toxeus: EVAL almost never is the right tool. 20:26:59 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c154-54.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:27:03 toxeus - if it's always (foo environment code), you can write foo as a macro. If you thought to use EVAL , you can certainly pass it the composition of environment and code 20:27:07 well it certainly is behaving weirdly 20:27:36 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host100-220-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27:41 that is, (eval '(let ((a 1)) (+ 1 a))) 20:28:03 prip_ [n=_prip@host139-83-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:28:06 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:28:30 toxeus: Lisp is a compiled language. At the time EVAL is run, the lexical variables bindings are gone. 20:28:56 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 20:29:29 I have the feeling that the task toxeus is meant to solve is to write a function that evaluates boolean expressions. 20:29:41 toxeus: Arbitrary cpu registers contain the values. There's no mapping from that values to a name A or B anymore. 20:29:41 propositional logic, yeah 20:30:16 toxeus: Write the interpreter yourself. It's probably less code than whatever kludge you're trying to do. 20:30:21 So constructing an expression to pass to EVAL is what at first might seem like a cute hack, but certainly is not what the teacher had in mind. 20:30:39 The truly adventurous among you may take advantage of "eval" (and possibly "defmacro") to make at least some of these parts very easy. 20:30:44 -- my teacher, the assignment 20:30:56 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:31:10 strange teacher, then. 20:31:11 Using EVAL rarely makes anything easy. 20:31:36 the truly adventurous usually end up bitten by snakes and devoured by lions. You've been set up :-) 20:31:38 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 20:31:43 hehehe 20:31:55 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:32:35 I'm having a hard time thinking of a way to do this without ever using eval, probably due to my inexperience with lisp 20:32:37 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 20:33:02 toxeus: Does the course have an accompanying book? 20:33:07 If so which is it? 20:33:11 Norvig 20:33:17 PAIP? 20:33:28 russell/norvig AI: A modern approach 20:33:42 Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:33:49 (foo '((*evalhook* t)) '(and t t)) :) 20:33:52 evening ppls 20:34:42 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:34:43 wow, gilberth, that looks like it does what the assignment says to do 20:34:59 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:35:03 is there a way to get a list into a function's parameters ...(list a b c)...(defun (a b c)...) 20:35:10 toxeus: Ok, what is (foo 't) supposed to return? 20:35:11 clhs apply 20:35:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 20:35:21 t 20:35:23 ta 20:35:33 toxeus: And (foo 'nil)? 20:35:35 that's the hard part, I think, taking car of t, nil 20:35:40 nil 20:35:56 ok. you know to craft a COND to catch those cases? 20:35:57 uses settings to evaluate 20:36:00 yes 20:36:14 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:27 toxeus: what is a model in your context? 20:36:44 -!- harmattan [n=harmatta@213.37.174.213.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:36:56 a list of symbol value pairs, values can be either t or nil, symbols can be anything 20:37:06 ok. 20:37:12 ((a t) (b t) (p nil)), for instance 20:37:49 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 20:38:16 ok. so when the expression is not t or nil, but some other symbol, you look that up the model. 20:38:18 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has quit ["My brother recently harassed me over the phone about why I wasn't on Facebook. My response was, "You want my status update] 20:38:40 you're describing a parser for this prop logic language? 20:39:15 an interpreter, an EVAL; you don't need to parse anything. 20:39:35 parsing is already taken care of by the Lisp reader. 20:40:19 you can also compile it to lisp with defmacro or eval, which is probably what your teacher meant. 20:41:01 toxeus: Start your implementation with just handling T, NIL, and symbols, then start adding a simple operator like NOT; continue this process until you're done. 20:43:22 thanks! I think this is the right track. Thanks a bunch! 20:44:39 manuel [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:47:49 so now I'm confused about what eval is for, can it use non-dynamic variables but not find out what was meant by 'a when it's used as a symbol? 20:48:22 that was poorly worded, basically it can't look up symbols dynamically because the symbols themselves are not part of the compiled code? 20:48:59 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:32 eval looks up dynamic variables dynamically, it looks up lexical variables lexically, it looks up snozzberry variable-- the problem with your earlier code is that the lexical context provided by LET doesn't exist anymore when (eval ...) runs. 20:49:42 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:50:05 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:21 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslc-082-082-054-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:55:18 toxeus: A lexical binding is a mapping maintained in a compilation environment. In principle, there could be an operator CURRENT-LEXENV, which result you could pass to EVAL to make it understand lexical variables. 20:56:15 I'm using ECL, Emacs, and slime. I started a simple buffer, with C-c C-f, typed a (defun), tried to compile it with C-c C-c, but I get a "serious signal 6 caught".. what am I doing wrong? btw, if I just do M-C-x, the defun macro evaluates just fine 20:57:16 You typed (defun), nothing more? 20:57:30 well, (defun foo () 3), to be exact 20:57:57 Sounds like a serious bug. Update your version of ECL and look whether the problem persists 20:59:08 it's the newest version from the Ubuntu repositories. I just installed it yesterday. 20:59:39 so, which version is it? 21:01:22 -!- user_ [n=user@p54924BC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:02:55 hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 21:03:08 0.9j-20080306-5ubuntu1 21:03:20 that's an older version. 21:03:33 apparently Ubuntu hasn't updated the package. 21:06:18 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:28 i used to write in c++ and now i write in lisp using emacs & slime 21:10:50 i don't remember how to get myself started up in c++...like how do i even get a compiler etc? 21:11:07 could someone recommend a good compiler, preferably something that i can use in windows & linux both 21:11:27 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 21:11:50 I'm afraid that's the wrong channel to ask. For C, we can recommend the Zeta-C compiler written in Lisp. 21:11:55 :D 21:13:19 fancy coming here to ask about C++ 21:13:21 isismelting: gcc? 21:13:23 tcr: thank you! i'll try that 21:13:34 Or, g++ rather. 21:13:42 *sigh* Is there a Common Lisp port of Zeta-C? 21:14:02 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:14:06 see guys i'm not sure why i feel like i need to write in c++ 21:14:10 oh, hi gilberth 21:14:44 i am interested in doing AI programming for music composition. from my experience, it is good to have like two ideas / areas of knowledge etc in any area to avoid bias and to enable triangulation 21:14:54 does that make any sense? 21:15:05 maybe there is something other than c++ i would be wise to explore as an alternative? 21:15:21 i'm very open to any suggestions, since i don't know exactly what it is i'm trying to do here. it's very abstract to me. 21:15:47 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [] 21:16:12 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:16:21 hefner: Nice host name you have there. 21:16:28 "er/zeta-c/ And before you ask, no, it's not trivially portable to Common Lisp. " from cliki 21:16:53 if something can't be done trivially i pretty much can't do it 21:17:41 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:50 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0F8CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:44 is g++ part of mingw? 21:18:59 ask these question in ##C++ 21:19:20 sorry ayrnieu 21:19:48 ayrnieu - is there another language that i would be wise to know as a lisp programmer? 21:20:33 isismelting: learn them all! 21:20:51 and code COBOL in your day job. It's more profitable than anything else. 21:21:57 for music composition, does that mean on a symbolic level? 21:22:00 i have no day job, i'm a 23-year-old wanker who lives with his parents and has mild autism 21:22:12 i think lisp will encompass any other language you could want to use for that 21:22:35 i think you've already found out about common music? 21:22:36 music composition: (mozart (bach x)) 21:23:13 i haven't, manuel. i probably should. 21:23:33 here you go : http://commonmusic.sourceforge.net/ 21:24:04 i just write very basic programs that use markov chains or genetic algorithms etc to analyze incoming midi files (using a david cope midi.lisp file) and make new versions in the style of the composers 21:24:07 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 21:24:43 but manuel - i eventually would like to create a GUI for my programs that make them very user-friendly 21:25:01 manuel - is that something i can learn to do with just common lisp eventually, or will i need to combine common lisp with something else? 21:25:18 with creativity! 21:25:34 no you will be able to do it with lisp 21:25:40 ( thank you for the common music link, this looks very relevant to what i am doing and i am sure i will make great use of it! ) 21:25:52 yakman_ [n=yakman_@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:25:56 -!- yakman_ [n=yakman_@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 21:26:12 yes it provides a lot of good things 21:26:27 mannuel: really? that is great to hear, i have not come across how something like that is done yet. 21:26:50 that depends on the implementation you are using 21:26:58 it's maybe not the most straightforward thing 21:27:02 emacs & slime with glisp 21:27:17 but i'm willing to switch or try something new etcetera 21:27:20 oh, never heard about glisp, but i'm not doing much lisp these days 21:27:31 well i think you could have a look at common music first, and play around with it 21:27:35 younder [i=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 21:27:49 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:27:50 all right, thank you friend 21:27:57 and then if you start to find some usable algorithms, you could actually consider switching to a more "restrained" language wher GUI development is better supported 21:28:33 that's what i thought i'd end up doing 21:34:14 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:35:19 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-163-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 21:36:33 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 21:38:28 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 21:41:06 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:41:58 -!- borism__ [n=boris@195-50-207-113-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:42:23 -!- jeremiah 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[n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:51:10 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:29 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-170-29.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 22:56:38 -!- Drakeson [n=user@bas3-toronto02-1279724683.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:57:05 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-140-229.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:57:50 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-3-190.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:58:19 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 22:58:50 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 22:59:15 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:59:43 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 23:00:06 please /topic Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, SBCL 1.0.25, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.13, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10 23:00:31 since when do I need chanop to do that? 23:01:16 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:19 anyway, like ayrnieu asks, please? 23:01:32 *ehu`* goes to bed and will have a look at it tomorrow 23:01:35 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has left #lisp 23:04:37 -!- younder [i=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:04:54 lisabo [n=lisabo@p4FD3F62B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:26 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 23:13:42 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit ["[IRSSI]"] 23:14:12 jfactor [n=john@student166-235.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 23:16:09 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:18:32 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:19:34 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-140-229.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:14 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:23:49 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:17 haimez [n=haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:32 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 23:25:53 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-92.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 23:26:33 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:26:45 ... Well, that's part one done. I now have an Alpha disassembler of sorts. 23:26:45 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:22 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:57 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:34:16 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:53 is there an easy way to find the highest set bit of an integer? preferably without just doing floor of logarithm-2 23:40:48 http://forth.sourceforge.net/algorithm/firstbit/index.html 23:41:18 closest I can come is successive ashifting to more and more negative values until hitting 0 23:41:21 oh 23:41:22 thanks 23:41:34 ayrnieu: i don't think you want to recommend that 23:41:47 fusss - why don't you think that? 23:42:03 clhs logcount 23:42:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_logcou.htm 23:42:27 what is DUP 23:42:31 toxeus: I think this might do what you want, for positive integers, at least. :-P 23:42:57 toxeus: a forth word for duplicating the TOS element 23:43:06 (For negative integers, CL is specified to be 2's complement, infinite width, so the highest set bit is infinite.) 23:43:25 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-136-86.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:31 hacker's delight has this in spades for 1s and 2s complements 23:43:37 nyef: no, (foo 4) should return 2, not 1 23:43:46 Oh, sorry. 23:43:49 clhs integer-length 23:43:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_intege.htm 23:43:52 My mistake. 23:44:03 that's perfect 23:44:21 *fusss* is trolling through bit manipulation files for the perfect algorithm .. 23:46:24 "perfect algorithm" ? 23:47:18 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:47:26 ayrnieu: that turns 0111 to 0100, which I then have to decide somehow is the 2nd LSB 23:47:52 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:48:14 yes, somehow. 23:48:33 -!- poet [n=tim@64.198.227.149] has quit ["leaving"] 23:48:38 toxeus: integer-length gives you the number of bits needed to represent the integer 23:48:42 I can't easily think of a way to do that that's not just as easy to do with the original number 23:49:03 yes, integer-length seems to do what I want, I'm hoping to understand another way to do this with the algorithm ayrnieu linked to 23:49:58 with repeated shifts and ANDs? 23:50:10 it reduces the domain of your function from 2**n to n. 23:50:50 that would help if I tried to hardcode e.g. (if (= result 1) ... (if (= result 2) ... (if (= result 4) ...)))) 23:51:12 but if I have to search by shifting I can do that just as well with 010110101 as 010000000 23:52:12 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:16 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:41 *Fare* googled "hacker's delight" -- intro by Guy Steele. 23:55:15 screw it, dude, count down from integer-length and test each with logbitp 23:55:24 -!- Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 23:56:48 If you don't want to use the standard function, why not check to see if your host CPU has an instruction to do it, or to do CLZ, which is its inverse. 23:56:51 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-0-76.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 23:57:23 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-54.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:57:28 is it trivial to execute microcode from lisp? 23:59:35 Depends on the lisp. 23:59:55 ok, thanks 23:59:57 younder [i=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 23:59:59 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-77.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp