00:00:13 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:00:14 e.g. avoid "Wizards" that produce code you don't understand. 00:00:15 obviously, if you choose lisp, you are not pragmatic 00:00:47 ASau - here's an introduction: http://www.cs.binghamton.edu/~zdu/parsdemo/srintro.html 00:00:47 in Lisp, generated code is encapsulated in macros, and doesn't taint your source code with stuff you don't master 00:00:49 I understand, that I can dig out my Dragon Book, but I don't think that's productive. 00:00:51 Fare - so, avoid LOOP ? :-) 00:01:17 or "manually balance resource allocation/deallocation" -- in lisp, you use CALL-WITH- and WITH- 00:01:28 ayrnieu: I know how to implement it. 00:01:29 that themselves use UNWIND-PROTECT 00:01:35 thanks stassats 00:01:38 what does the # mean? 00:01:43 I want to know what kind of grammars they accept. 00:01:47 one may argue that compiler is a wizard, which produces code that you don't understand 00:01:47 ayrnieu, no, you don't have to maintain the code generated by LOOP 00:01:58 but you have to maintain code generated by M$ "Wizards" 00:02:03 that's the point 00:02:12 can you sort without side effects? 00:02:14 do you need setq? 00:02:21 aha. 00:02:23 a M$ C++ "Wizard" produces thousands of lines that YOU have to maintain 00:02:25 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:02:34 <_death> Fare: unlike wizard generated code, it's not usually the case that you have to read and modify the macroexpansion 00:02:34 a Lisp macro produces code that you DON'T have to maintain 00:02:38 dmead_home: it's not built in but you can (sort (copy-list ...) ...) and get the effect 00:02:58 dmead_home: # means nothing by itself, look up # followed by the next character 00:03:01 clhs #' 00:03:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhb.htm 00:03:14 and you need to setq it, even when you don't copy it 00:04:16 <_death> Fare: well, you seem to say what I just said.. so I don't understand why their advice is not applicable? 00:05:01 their advice is not applicable to Lisp, because in Lisp, we use macros, not "wizards" 00:05:07 ah 00:05:42 similarly for resource management, lisp has much better constructs 00:05:46 -!- dwave [n=ask@084202073045.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 00:06:09 <_death> Fare: well, using Lisp may be a consequence of applying their advice 00:06:17 why does sort want side effects? 00:06:21 in other words, you need to use what sort returns, not what you pass to it 00:06:34 can't you just do sort (predicate) (list)? 00:06:45 performance reason? 00:06:46 dmead_home: sort is allowed to destructively reuse the input sequence. 00:06:54 ah 00:06:57 for speed sure 00:06:58 dmead_home: makes sort fast. Otherwise, it would have to recons everything. 00:07:04 -!- gonzojive [n=red@adsl-75-6-233-10.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:07:05 yes 00:07:05 gonzojive_ [n=red@adsl-75-6-233-10.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:31 i guess i'll have to roll my own 00:07:41 i've got this lisp assignment but i've been doing haskell for years 00:07:44 erh, huh? What's wrong with copy-list? 00:07:51 it could be by anology with other destructive operations: sort and nsort, but it isn't so 00:08:51 <_death> (defun sorted (seq &rest whatever) (apply #'sort (copy-seq seq) whatever)) 00:09:33 -!- jfactor [n=john@student166-14.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:10:08 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 00:11:36 -!- manic12_ [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:12:10 dmead_home: even if you're trying to build a pure system there's nothing wrong with using mutation inside of algorithms where it can't escape. think of it like the ST monad in Haskell 00:12:46 kpreid, oh sure, but i'll get points off if i use side effects :P 00:13:01 dmead_home: you're not using side effects. 00:13:10 kpreid, plus i'm used to thinking in haskell.. but i use monads only where absolutly nessicary 00:13:11 the ministry of safety and happiness is watching you... follow the simple rules! 00:13:17 ozy`, :P 00:13:23 dmead_home: just do what _death showed you 00:13:24 (that's also pretty much the only way to get a performant sort, afaik) 00:14:01 pkhuong: merge sort? 00:14:01 *kpreid* ignorant 00:14:01 oh 00:14:02 clhs seq 00:14:02 You're still consing *a lot* more. 00:14:02 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for seq. 00:14:09 whats seq? 00:14:15 a variable 00:14:16 <_death> the name of a variable 00:14:19 ah 00:14:27 clhs copy-seq 00:14:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cp_seq.htm 00:14:31 clhs squence 00:14:31 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for squence. 00:14:33 clhs sequence 00:14:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_seq.htm 00:14:44 minion: pcl? 00:14:46 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 00:14:53 but built in sort still uses side effects 00:15:01 (defun sorted (seq &rest whatever) (apply #'sort (copy-seq seq) whatever)) 00:15:09 sort is still using a side effect 00:15:12 <_death> hint: everything that runs uses side effects 00:15:35 dmead_home: since this is homework (yes?) I highly recommend asking your instructor whether they really want yo uimplenting your own sorting algorithm. 00:15:44 sure, but you aren't. Moreover, the side effects are transparent if you pass a sequence that isn't referenced by anything else. 00:16:17 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:16:18 your choices are (a) using SORT of COPY-SEQ (b) implementing sorting yourself (c) using a third-party library which provides an externally nondestructive sort, if there is one 00:16:20 kpreid: In Haskell, at least, I'm fairly certain that the usual way to get an efficient sort is to blit to a mutable array, sort, and cons a pure sequence back. 00:16:30 kpreid, well i'm not explictly supposed to be implementing a sort, but if you're familiar with huffman trees i'm trying a strategy to convert a list of nodes to the tree by sorting it first 00:16:55 pkhuong, there is pure sort in haskell 00:17:03 hmmm... at least Haskell now has Monads, instead of referencing future 00:17:06 there is pure sort in lisp: use copy-seq 00:17:13 dmead_home: it's much less efficient than sorting a mutable array. 00:17:15 dmead_home: In your situation, if I couldn't ask, I would use the defun sorted above, and give an explanatory comment 00:17:26 kpreid, alright 00:17:30 dmead_home: SORT's use of side effect isn't any more impure than haskell's implementation of call by need. 00:17:41 dmead, you're thinking stylistically rather than actually. 00:17:42 right right 00:17:49 also true 00:18:42 ah, huffman trees! 00:18:45 The only way the implementation detail of it being (potentially) destructive can be observed is if you misuse it. 00:18:50 jfactor [n=john@student167-133.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 00:19:02 *Fare* remembers writing a huffman compressor, way back when, to fit a database on a 360KB floppy... 00:19:25 360k... that's a lot 00:19:42 yeah, my first floppies had a whopping 140KiB per face. 00:19:45 I doubt that you're supposed to use a full-blown sort for that. A heap or another implementation of a pqueue would make more sense. 00:20:10 dmead_home: there's pure sort in haskell but there are also mutable array types that can be manipulated within the IO monad 00:20:16 Fare: Did the computer had ~64KiB of memory? :-) 00:20:35 p_l: yes, thanks to its "language card" memory extension (that ultimately died) 00:21:10 Oh, even older than I thought <--- fondly recalls reading up on Atari 800 books :) 00:21:57 fare ;o 00:22:43 *xtagon* feels like such a youngling. 00:22:55 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-164-228.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:07 p_l, nah, was the Apple ][+ 00:23:12 Fare: But Atari 800 is cheating, cause you could get swap mechanism and several megabytes of disk space without much problem :) 00:23:21 my first computer had 256m of memory :( 00:23:34 (if you had the money for a hdd, that is) 00:23:48 p_l, there was a 5MB hard disk for the Apple ][ -- maybe even 10MB and 20MB ones in the end. 00:24:19 Fare: The one I had seen for Atari 800 (aka 65XE, as well as the other compatible models) was 20MB. And nothing stopped you from making bigger 00:25:29 extending memory way over the available 16bit space could be also done easily :) 00:26:27 *p_l* imagines GC implemented as external CPU which does GC on swap-in 00:27:08 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 00:27:18 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:57 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-34-140.phnx.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:28:10 dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-34-140.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:14 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-208-160.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:58 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-115-236.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:29:14 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:29:52 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 00:30:20 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 00:33:52 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-118-63.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:35 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:38:18 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@hygiene.bl0rg.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:38:23 Fare, do you remmeber htrees at all? 00:38:42 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.100.204] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:39:37 I remember huffman coding. 00:40:04 I suppose you want to sort your nodes by frequency or some such 00:40:17 indeed 00:40:28 so it's easy to construct each node and it's leafs 00:40:42 (or just organize them in a priority heap ordered by frequency) 00:40:55 yea 00:41:07 i thought this way would be better than some weird logic to decide which nodes to merge first 00:41:34 or even worse, start the freqency count at 1 and increment up 00:41:54 stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:20 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 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computer has gone to sleep"] 02:40:32 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2FACE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:42:05 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 02:49:23 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [No route to host] 02:51:13 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 02:54:30 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:54:44 jfactor [n=john@student167-35.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 02:56:13 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:18 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1356.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:58:48 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.233] has quit [] 03:01:46 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-71-184-223-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["I fear that I must depart for now."] 03:07:11 clhs let 03:07:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm 03:07:43 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit ["going to moon brb"] 03:07:49 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:30 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 03:14:47 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 03:16:20 dgou [n=dgou@c-67-163-142-94.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:18 I just made SBCL bomb out with nested errors, and I'm not sure what I did wrong. Here's the file that causes the problem: http://paste.lisp.org/display/76004 03:18:35 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:20:46 hmm...ok, just noticed an accessor that was wrong. Fixed in annotation #1. 03:22:10 what's "input-widget" in initialize-instance? 03:22:27 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:36 stassats: the incorrect accessor for the input-widget slot of dialog-input-presentation 03:22:40 and (not (null x)) == x 03:22:40 it's fixed in #1 03:23:00 aggieben: really? 03:23:14 pkhuong: really what? 03:23:45 *stassats* gives up doing eye-diff 03:23:54 the annotation is identical to the first paste. 03:24:18 lines 22 and 27 03:24:28 too bad lisppaste doesn't have @@ highlighting 03:24:53 <_death> that code doesn't make sense 03:25:04 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:04 _death: shoot it down, baby 03:25:44 *aggieben* thinks pastes are a programmers clay pigeon 03:26:08 <_death> `input-widget' is free in `initialize-instance'.. I also assume that `nil' isn't of type `complex-edit-mixin' 03:26:42 _death: doh! You're right. input-widget is supposed to be a keyword 03:27:04 I guess I could just leave the slot unbound instead of using :initform nil 03:28:27 benny [n=benny@i577A0BBD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:30:09 Chrononaut [n=bjorn@cm-84.212.139.23.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 03:37:26 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:38:42 bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-71-184-223-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:48 ilitirit [n=john@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 03:52:47 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-208-160.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:53:13 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [] 03:53:15 memet [n=memet@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:11 Hello all. How would I access the value of a symbol using a string name? So far, I've managed to get the symbol itself via (intern "foo"), but I don't know how to get to the value held by 'foo 03:54:36 memet: symbol-value 03:54:54 danke schön. 03:54:57 -!- memet [n=memet@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:56:35 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:56:50 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:59:19 smanek [n=abc@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:45 clhs and 04:00:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_and.htm 04:00:52 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:03:54 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:08:23 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-208-160.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:09:39 chavo_ 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quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:06:19 tessier_1 [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #lisp 05:06:33 dgou [n=dgou@c-67-163-142-94.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:17 -!- tessier_1 is now known as tessier___ 05:08:14 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-255-221.netcologne.de] has quit [] 05:08:47 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-34-140.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:13:54 -!- dgou [n=dgou@c-67-163-142-94.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:14:00 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #lisp 05:14:01 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:14:27 -!- jollygood_ [n=jollygoo@pool-72-65-141-116.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit ["..."] 05:14:28 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-133.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 05:19:56 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-208-160.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:32:38 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:11 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 05:39:12 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:42:29 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:43:48 dcjackson [n=dcj@dcjmacbookpro.clark-communications.com] has joined #lisp 05:44:42 "WITH-UNIQUE-NAMES is not of type CONS" did any one got this error in slime 05:57:01 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:14 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:01:31 trebor_h` [n=user@dslb-084-059-028-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:25 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 06:04:05 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:11:32 -!- pragma_ is now known as zpragma_ 06:12:49 -!- zpragma_ is now known as pragma_ 06:15:57 -!- bob_f [n=bob@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:16:07 bob_f [n=bob@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 06:16:26 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-58-39.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:02 -!- trebor_h` [n=user@dslb-084-059-028-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:21:04 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.25] has joined #lisp 06:21:16 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:28:56 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-208-160.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:40 -!- Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:39:22 blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:34 hey channel 06:41:40 what does a . mean 06:42:13 tail of a cons cell 06:42:21 (cons 1 2) => (1 . 2), (list 1 2 3) => (1 2 3) <=> (1 . (2 . (3 . nil))) 06:42:47 ,.foo is also a destructive ,@foo 06:43:17 <_death> 3.5 is also a float 06:43:29 "." is a string with one character , #\. 06:43:33 <_death> ;) 06:43:40 clhs 2.4.1 06:43:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_da.htm 06:43:50 and don't forget #. 06:44:16 wait, how can ,@foo be destructive 06:44:26 ,@foo isn't; ,.foo is. 06:44:31 destructive to what 06:44:35 foo? 06:44:47 clhs ,. 06:44:47 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for ,.. 06:44:56 clhs ,@ 06:44:57 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for ,@. 06:45:20 clhs 2.4.6 06:45:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 06:45:20 clhs quasiquote 06:45:21 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for quasiquote. 06:45:25 <_death> yes, to foo 06:45:39 durka - destructive of the list that is inserted. 06:45:51 <_death> e.g. `(1 2 3 ., ze-list 4 5 6) 06:46:09 (let ((a (list 1))) `(a b ,.a 1) a) => (1 1) 06:47:09 <_death> (transpose chars to get what I meant) 06:48:31 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-141-69.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:29 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-240-176-62.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:46 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:47 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:54:03 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 07:00:13 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:00:52 good morning 07:03:02 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:03:03 -!- beach` is now known as beach 07:03:23 Good morning. 07:04:27 dys [n=andreas@p5B316EBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:33 mornin' beach 07:05:16 -!- bob_f [n=bob@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:16 -!- manic12_ [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:16 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:16 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:16 -!- mr_uggla_ [i=mzsillan@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:16 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:16 -!- comex [n=comex@teklinks.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:16 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:16 -!- maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:16 -!- cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:16 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:16 -!- cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:05:58 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 bob_f [n=bob@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 manic12_ [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 mr_uggla_ [i=mzsillan@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 comex [n=comex@teklinks.org] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 07:06:04 cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 07:07:23 hello 07:07:30 hello MrSpec 07:08:20 morning beach 07:10:08 Modius [n=Modius@99.179.103.194] has joined #lisp 07:10:38 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:14 bfein_ [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 07:19:24 trebor_dki pasted "what to take care of, to prevent this error (sbcl 1.0.22 x86-64)?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76010 07:19:42 -!- bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:20:38 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:21:06 dys` [n=andreas@p5B315469.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:20 LostMonarch [n=roby@host68-211-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:22:28 Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has joined #lisp 07:22:37 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-208-160.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:22:55 this error occurs only on sbcl.1.0.22 x8664 (rhel 5) after running a mainly numerical application for several hours. the same application under sbcl 1.0.18 x8632 (debian) does not have this issues. is there anything i can check in my code / system configuration? 07:23:25 What does the error message say in English? 07:23:39 ups. sorry. 07:24:05 Riastradh: resource not available at the moment. 07:24:30 Well, it is saying that select indicated an error. 07:25:16 You should probably track down the errno corresponding to that message and see what it means to select. 07:26:00 is useage of 'when' considered iteration? 07:26:13 or is it just sugar for if-else 07:26:29 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B316EBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:26:51 dmead_home: I don't see why it would be considered iteration? 07:26:55 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-118-63.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:26:57 (macroexpand-1 '(when a b)) => (IF A (PROGN B) NIL) 07:27:06 dmead: Are you confusing it with the usage in LOOP? 07:27:30 (of while), that is. 07:27:39 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@68.126.208.160] has joined #lisp 07:28:01 no 07:28:06 i have to avoid iteration 07:28:12 clhs when 07:28:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_when_.htm 07:28:17 dmiles [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:22 dmead_home: why do you have to avoid iteration? 07:28:23 dmead_home: (macroexpand-1 '(when a b)) => (IF A (PROGN B) NIL) 07:28:32 beach: probably homework 07:28:36 homework 07:28:50 It does not involve re-iteration, in any case. 07:28:55 alrighty 07:30:03 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:30:07 Zhivago: i do not call select in my code directly. will i see the errcode in some of the backtraces? do i have to set debug-flags to see it? (according to man-page, select is a c-function to monitor multiple file descriptors, waiting until one or more of the file descriptors become "ready" for some class of I/O operation) 07:30:40 trebor: That text message should be unique to a particular errno in your system. 07:31:08 Have a look for sys_errlist -- probably in errno.h 07:31:29 You may have some localization to wade through, unfortunately. 07:31:33 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.164.47] has joined #lisp 07:32:07 Hmm. Not sure why select(2) might return EAGAIN. 07:32:33 Zhivago: thanks for pointing me into a direction to look for. 07:33:05 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:34:24 Mac OS X's man page says that its select(2) returns EAGAIN if `the kernel was (perhaps temporarily) unable to allocate the requested number of file descriptors', but I doubt whether that applies to Linux. There's no mention of select(2)'s returning EAGAIN in NetBSD's or Linux's man pages, or in POSIX. 07:36:04 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:36:40 HET2 [n=diman@84.114.161.225] has joined #lisp 07:37:01 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:37:23 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:40:42 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 07:41:19 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:27 good morning 07:41:55 hello 07:47:52 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:48:37 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has joined #lisp 07:51:04 Riastradh, Zhivago: i did not find an error message with this text (translated) in errno.h (or errno-base.h). looking at the backtrace it seems that reading from standard input causes some problems. (my application does not read anything from anywhere - it only prints to a file via (with-open-file ....)). can there be a problem with slime-repl? might that a direction (for me) to look for? 07:55:36 dreish [n=dreish@207.138.47.173] has joined #lisp 07:56:10 -!- tessier___ [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has quit ["leaving"] 07:57:14 clhs member 07:57:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_member.htm 07:59:47 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:00:01 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:00:03 mega1 [n=mega@3e44a82e.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:01:37 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 08:02:30 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:03:56 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 08:04:34 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:04:41 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:05:14 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:06:31 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:07:03 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:08:56 tic_ [n=tic@c83-249-194-249.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:12:54 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:15:59 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has joined #lisp 08:19:22 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Out of Memory: Killed process [9823] xchat."] 08:21:21 addled [n=addled@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 08:21:43 I am setup with emacs and slime - is it possible to step through lisp code in a debugger? 08:23:14 saikat: in sbcl you may have to set debug 3 and put a (break "...") into you code. 08:23:36 ah i see 08:23:38 after i break 08:23:45 then do i just use "s" in SLDB 08:23:47 to keep stepping? 08:24:23 s for the first step and then look at the debug-output for the number 08:24:35 schmx [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:24:56 the number? 08:25:06 also, does s step into or over function calls? 08:25:24 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:25:31 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 08:28:05 I have modified lispbox with (emacs,ecl,hunchentoot) for windows, (it also multi-threaded); will anyone be interested ???? 08:28:35 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 08:31:45 saikat: 0-step continue 1-step out 2-step next 3-step into .... 08:31:51 ahhh i see 08:31:54 thanks a lot 08:33:36 g'day #lisp 08:33:45 oddly though, whenever i do sldb-step, my evaluation just gets aborted 08:33:54 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:34:01 i noticed that the slime docs said this is not supported everywhere 08:34:10 how do i find out if it is supported on SBCL in OS X? 08:37:00 clhs map 08:37:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_map.htm 08:37:28 saikat: did you use C-u C-c C-c to compile your function (which sets (declare (optimize (debug 3))) automagically)? 08:38:32 trebor, i didn't but i have the (declare (optimize (debug 3))) in my .sbclrc file 08:38:36 let me try what you said 08:38:52 it's possible this file was compiled before i had that in sbclrc 08:39:48 yeah same thing is happening 08:40:10 clhs mapcar 08:40:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 08:40:21 saikat: to test, if stepping works, you can just write a simple function with a break at start. (like (defun test-break () (declare (optimize (debug 3))) (break "stop-here") (print 1) (print 2) ....) ) then you can call it and step through it. 08:40:35 sure i will try it out 08:40:39 thanks for your help trevor 08:40:45 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has quit ["<&Helios> 13. Devils dictionary: A parlor utensil for subduing the impenitent visitor. it is operated by depressing the keys ] 08:40:59 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has joined #lisp 08:41:30 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:41:44 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.28] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:41:55 saikat: i am a beginner, so maybe there are much better ways to do it. 08:42:38 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 08:44:07 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:46:05 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.164.47] has quit [] 08:46:56 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:47:07 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:49:06 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-240-176-62.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 08:52:43 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:53:13 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:58:25 -!- addled [n=addled@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 09:01:21 -!- p_l [n=plasek@pp82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:01:33 p_l [n=plasek@pp82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:01:45 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:02:50 slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:44 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:05:38 addled [n=addled@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 09:06:11 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-147-178.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:07:07 stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:50 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:10:36 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AD87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:08 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:11:14 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.25] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:11:53 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 09:13:01 guille_ [n=guille_@4.Red-81-37-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:28 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:20:40 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB81F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:23:58 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["ggoleblb"] 09:26:32 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-8-32.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:29:44 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BB87C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:31:05 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB81F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:31:09 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 09:33:14 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #lisp 09:33:28 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-71.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:34:37 clhs member 09:34:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_member.htm 09:36:40 -!- tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has quit [Client Quit] 09:37:47 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #lisp 09:39:32 clhs requal 09:39:33 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for requal. 09:39:40 clhs reqll 09:39:40 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for reqll. 09:39:46 clhs eql 09:39:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_eql.htm 09:40:13 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:40:47 can i make ecl to show line-number of the error 09:42:49 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:43:07 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 09:43:29 lboard, it should say something like Broken at ... (Form #3) 09:43:39 what is Form 09:43:48 expression? 09:43:51 (form0) (form1) (form2) (form3) 09:44:01 yes. 09:44:37 -!- cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:46:24 sulo [n=sulo@p57B49E34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:46:30 clhs memberof 09:46:30 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for memberof. 09:46:41 clhs memberOf 09:46:42 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for memberOf. 09:47:05 dmead, what do you want to do? 09:47:22 i wan to see if an element is in a list 09:47:37 buuut regular member just returns the sublist starting with that element, or nil 09:47:43 does that count as true? 09:48:08 i want to say 09:48:09 that counts as true if (if '(a b c) 1) => 1 09:48:11 dmead_home: it does. you may want to look into a structured text on lisp in order to learn the basics. 09:48:12 dmead_home: i think anything which is not nil is true 09:48:15 dmead_home: are you dmiles_afk? 09:48:23 lichtblau, no 09:48:29 dmead_home: please do not use the clhs bot to randomly poke around in the spec. 09:48:45 trebor_dki, ah thanks 09:48:58 dmead_home: cl:member returns the sublist or nil, cl:find the element itself or nil, cl:position its position or nil 09:49:41 eh? 09:50:04 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-190-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 09:50:21 what do i have to look for, if i would to enable a defun to count how often it was called? sth like a static variable in c? 09:50:53 (the defun should calculate different things dependent how often it was called) 09:51:36 oh, then keep the count in an enclosed variable. 09:51:40 The closest thing to a static variable is an object created in load-time-value. (let ((box (load-time-value (list 0)))) (symbol-macrolet ((counter (car box))) (incf counter) ...)) 09:52:07 But in your case, I suspect that a LET or even just a DEFVAR on top of the function is sufficient. 09:52:38 (let ((called 0)) (defun foo () (when (> (incf called) 50) (error "foo exhausted")) ...)) 09:52:39 so i just do a closure, right? 09:52:55 dmead_home: cl:member, cl:find and cl:position all look for an element inside a list, they differ wrt. the return value 09:53:28 ok. thanks ayrnieu, lichtblau. i will do so. 09:53:44 -!- Modius [n=Modius@99.179.103.194] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:54:04 fe[nl]ix, but member is used as a boolean right? or am i just going crazy 09:54:06 i'm trying to do 09:54:07 Modius [n=Modius@99.179.103.194] has joined #lisp 09:54:12 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:54:23 (member `HELLO `(HELLO WORLD)) 09:55:02 clhs true 09:55:03 dmead_home: returns (HELLO WORLD) which is non-NIL ther4efore True 09:55:03 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for true. 09:55:24 dmiles, gotcha thanks 09:55:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_t.htm#true 09:57:24 dmead_home: all three of those functions return non-NIL upon finding the desired element 10:00:47 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 10:02:14 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-190-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:29 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AD87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 10:03:02 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AD87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:32 -!- jao [n=jao@250.Red-79-155-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:03:54 karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has joined #lisp 10:04:40 cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has joined #lisp 10:07:23 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-190-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:08:22 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:09:43 -!- guille_ [n=guille_@4.Red-81-37-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 10:12:45 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:14:34 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 10:16:01 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:20:11 loz- [n=loz@127.146.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:23:28 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.25] has joined #lisp 10:27:16 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:28:09 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:32 By any chance, are there any stumpwm users here? I know it 10:28:38 's a little off topic ... 10:29:10 -!- hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:29:12 there is #stumpwm 10:30:28 stassats: thanks. I had a quick question that I tried asking there, but no one seems to be in. Thought I'd take a long shot and try here 10:30:53 then ask your question 10:31:00 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:31:06 I was wondering how stumpwm sets its PATH environment variable? The PATH seen by "C-t !" or (getenv "PATH") is different from the PATH I set in my .bashrc (and that is seen in an XTerm) 10:31:56 perhaps your profile can give you answers? 10:32:03 interactive vs. non-interactive shells. also, see #stumpwm 10:32:14 smanek: If I remember correctly it stores what you had when you built the sucker. 10:32:42 That road lies insanity 10:32:47 Or some oddity like that. But yes #stumpwm is helpful (: 10:32:52 schmx: thanks, that could be right ... 10:33:07 Bootvis [n=brj@g37065.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 10:33:23 smanek: Don't take my word for it. I've been off the stump for a year or so, and I'm not sure that's how it works at all.. Just something that popped up in my head (: 10:33:37 I tried asking in #stumpwm ~15 minutes ago, but no one seems to be in. I should try again later at a more reasonable hour 10:34:06 environment variables are inherited by parents 10:34:15 Hmm. 10:34:17 Patzy: ! 10:34:19 did you export your PATH? 10:34:27 Patzy: Wake up you big stumpwm user you! 10:34:34 s/by/from/ 10:34:38 stassats: Yes, but I don't know what stump's parents are 10:34:59 stassats: I do export my path in my .bashrc, but that doesn't seem to be seen by stumpwm 10:35:00 smanek: not stump's, but lisp's 10:35:16 what lisp are you using? 10:35:17 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 10:35:25 stassats: stumpwm is lisp ... it starts a lisp process. I'm using SBCL 10:35:34 smanek: I very much seem to remember something related to all this having been discussed some time before. (: 10:35:57 stumpwm is a window manager, or at least was 10:36:06 Still is. 10:36:56 stassats: Yes, it is ... perhaps I'm misunderstanding you 10:38:06 start sbcl from bash and do (require :sb-posix) (sb-posix:getenv "PATH") 10:38:31 If I start SBCL from bash, the path is correct (what I set in my .bashrc) 10:38:54 If I connect to the Lisp process running inside StumpWM, the path is not correct (not what I set in my .bashrc) 10:39:17 then make sure that parent process of sbcl is exporting the correct path 10:39:52 smanek: who starts stumpwm ? 10:40:36 I'm not sure ... I'm using ubuntu, and I created a session file for StumpWM. I just login and select 'stumpwm' 10:41:03 smanek: How about you start stumpwm from a bash terminal in yer X (: 10:41:33 -!- spec[away] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:41:43 spec[away] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 10:41:43 I'm sure that would work ... but that breaks all the ubuntu-y goodness ;-) 10:41:43 try to set your path in /etc/profile 10:42:00 with logging in anew 10:42:09 smanek: I'll just let that ubuntu-y goodness slide. 10:42:12 (: 10:42:13 smanek: probably that means that stumpwm is started by gdm, which runs as root and you get root's $PATH 10:43:00 kiuma [n=kiuma@83.103.127.195] has joined #lisp 10:43:03 fe[nl]ix: Hmm, the PATH that stumpwm sees is identical to root's 10:43:16 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:43:19 -!- dys` is now known as dys 10:43:26 stassats, fe[nl]ix: Thanks. That seems to be it 10:43:48 smanek: try to eval (sb-unix:unix-getuid) 10:43:58 if it returns 0, your stumpwm is running as root 10:44:04 or ~/.profile or ~/.loginrc or whatever, i forget what's the difference 10:44:54 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:55 that would be unlikely that gdm starts from root, unless you are not logging in as root 10:45:03 fe[nl]ix: Nope, unix-getuid return's my uid, not root's ... 10:45:15 ok 10:46:06 -!- avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:46:32 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:48:30 stassats: sorry, X seems to have just hung (unrelated problem). I'll try to set my ~/.profile in 2 minutes ... 10:49:54 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B73D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:50:56 stassats: perfect! exporting my PATH in my .profile instead of my .bashrc did the trick 10:51:02 thanks all 10:51:54 smanek: Horray. (: 10:55:56 -!- HET2 [n=diman@84.114.161.225] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:56:23 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:58:03 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:59 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:05:38 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:07:04 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:09:54 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:13:38 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AD87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 11:14:18 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B44C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:31 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:20:35 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 11:23:20 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:07 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:30:06 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:31:48 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.141.10] has joined #lisp 11:32:23 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 11:33:26 how to load with asdf without compiling 11:33:49 lboard: why do you want that? 11:34:21 if some-one uses ecl where he doesn't have a compiler? 11:36:28 c compiler; i think ecl compiles to c 11:37:22 i don't know anything about ecl, sorry. 11:37:46 lboard: you can use cl:load 11:38:47 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:41:22 if i use cl:load i want to manually load each and every file, right? 11:44:02 you can use asdf:load-source-op instead of asdf:load-op(which calls cl:compile) 11:44:18 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:44:36 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 11:44:38 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 11:45:00 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:45:12 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-71.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:45:42 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.25] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:46:08 -!- Fulax is now known as Fulax|Inria 11:46:37 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 11:47:00 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:58 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-71.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:01:16 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:03:17 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:09:42 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:16:31 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:16:46 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:18:22 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has quit ["Experiments should be reproducible: they should all fail the same way."] 12:18:41 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has joined #lisp 12:34:01 Necromas_ [n=Necromas@141.224.236.113] has joined #lisp 12:34:11 -!- loz- [n=loz@127.146.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:34:43 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:35:00 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:15 anyone worked cells on ECL 12:39:07 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:39:14 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 12:39:18 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-107.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:40:47 -!- danderson [n=dave@atlas.natulte.net] has quit ["leaving"] 12:42:11 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:47:55 -!- Necromas [n=Necromas@141.224.236.113] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:48:44 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 12:51:35 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-58-39.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:51:53 what is # in ECL 12:54:23 a condition object of type STREAM-ERROR 12:54:32 auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has joined #lisp 12:55:31 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 12:56:09 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@87.223.189.246] has joined #lisp 13:02:32 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:09:24 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:09:43 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:09:48 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:57 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:11:46 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.189.246] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:13:23 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 13:18:49 -!- pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:23:17 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 13:23:43 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:37 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:37 -!- lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 13:29:26 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:35:18 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:39:39 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:39:40 rigel__ [n=rigel@117.47.136.105] has joined #lisp 13:41:35 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 13:43:59 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 13:44:20 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit [Client Quit] 13:44:30 -!- Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has quit [] 13:45:20 -!- TDT [n=TDT@113.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:47:14 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:47:17 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.141.10] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:47:36 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EF1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:05 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:48:32 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:50 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:50:20 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:20 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.141.10] has joined #lisp 13:55:34 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1E804.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:19 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1E442.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:09 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:57:32 hello. how do you call a function with a function as a parameter? i do quote the function-name and use (funcall func-parameter func-args) - but i am not sure wether this is a good way to do it (the function to be called is not time-critical) - is this ok, or is there a better way? 13:57:36 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 13:57:53 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:15 <_3b> depends on which function you want, sometimes 'foo is good, sometimes #'foo is better 13:59:07 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.51.149] has joined #lisp 13:59:09 <_3b> either way, you use funcall to call it inside the function you pass it to 14:00:14 What's the easiest way to see the macroexpansion of a macrolet? 14:00:24 _3b: to use #'foo is to make clear that i want to pass a function - but there is no need to use the #, right? 14:00:25 don't use macrolet 14:00:27 chaitanya: extract the macrolet in a defmacro 14:00:36 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:53 H4ns: But what if that is not possible? 14:00:53 <_3b> trebor_dki: as i said, it depends on which function you want... sometimes the 2 would give different results 14:01:21 chaitanya: don't know. i'd be lost. 14:01:45 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 14:01:51 <_3b> trebor_dki: (defun foo () 1) (flet ((foo () 2)) (values (funcall 'foo) (funcall #'foo))) 14:02:25 H4ns: hmm 14:03:20 _3b: ok, thanks, checking this one 14:03:59 <_3b> trebor_dki: also behaves differently if you store the value, redefine the function, then funcall it i think 14:04:04 chaitanya: Why can't you do that? 14:05:12 chaitanya: there exist codewalker solutions for seeing the expansion of a macrolet in context 14:05:16 slime contains one, I believe 14:05:18 chaitanya: your implementation probably has a (extra-standard) macroexpand-all function 14:05:21 tcr: Because some of my macrolets take into account the lexical variables enclosing the macrolet body 14:05:39 the lexical variables? That sounds undefined 14:05:50 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-20.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:05:55 _3b: i see the difference, but i have to admit i do not know why. i think i have to reread # as well as funcall. thanks for pointing this out. 14:05:59 chaitanya: I think you may have to show us that. 14:06:03 "the consequences are undefined if the local macro definitions reference any local variable or function bindings that are visible in that lexical environment" 14:06:08 Xof: not at compile time. 14:06:09 chaitanya: That's unportable 14:06:10 <_3b> clhs function 14:06:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_fn.htm 14:06:25 Let me dig up for an example 14:06:27 chaitanya: ok, then it doesn't in fact take into account any lexical variables 14:06:31 <_3b> trebor_dki: read that, #'foo is a shortcut for (function foo) 14:06:35 it may take account of their names 14:06:50 Xof: yeah, that is right. 14:06:59 chaitanya: so then you should be able to do what H4ns suggested. 14:07:07 _3b: yes, thanks. (i thought #' would be (function (quote ...))) 14:07:47 beach: I am looking for an "easy" way to check their macroexpansion 14:08:04 Necromas__ [n=Necromas@141.224.236.113] has joined #lisp 14:08:18 -!- Fulax|Inria [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:08:19 Extracting them into a defmacro is too much work, I think. 14:08:33 chaitanya: well, you said that it was not possible, but it is. 14:08:46 It's possible for Slime to expand macrolets, I know how to do it 14:08:56 I haven't come around doing so 14:09:20 tcr: How? 14:09:50 Also, the CLHS section on macroexpand shows us expand-1, which gives the expansion of a macrolet. 14:09:56 But again, too much work. 14:09:57 using macroexpand in the right environment 14:10:23 tcr: And how would I do that in Slime? 14:10:51 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_mexp_.htm#macroexpand 14:11:10 chaitanya: I mean I know how to implement it 14:11:35 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:41 tcr: Oh. 14:12:03 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:13:17 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 14:13:22 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:06 isn't there slime-macroexpand-all? 14:14:16 admittedly a bit of a big hammer, but it should work 14:14:51 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:20 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44a82e.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:15:35 There's also slime-format-string-expand since yesterday :-) 14:15:52 Xof: I haven't tried that. Let me see if it works. 14:16:21 <_3b> anyone familiar with deftransform, defoptimizer, etc in sbcl? 14:16:35 yes 14:18:23 <_3b> in src/compiler/aliencomp.lisp, there is a deftransform for alien-funcall that adds a call to invoke-with-saved-fp-and-pc, which is declaimed inline 14:18:39 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:35 <_3b> when building sbcl, one of the bits of ROOM ends up with a full call to invoke-with-saved-fp-and-pc, causing it to cons bignums 14:20:01 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-28-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:20:46 trace is-ok-template-use around the building of room.lisp 14:22:17 this is the function that mega is currently hacking on, right? 14:22:33 Xof: slime-macroexpand-all won't work. The macrolet is defined inside a function. 14:23:00 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:23:03 As tcr said, hard to do anything without taking into account the correct environment 14:23:13 so you slime-macroexpand-all the function definition 14:23:32 Necromas [n=Necromas@141.224.236.113] has joined #lisp 14:24:02 slime-macroexpand-all for sbcl is implemented using sbcl's internal pcl code walker, which takes into account environments 14:24:02 jsnell: Oh. Yeah that works. 14:24:06 (modulo a few bugs) 14:24:39 -!- Necromas_ [n=Necromas@141.224.236.113] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:25:19 but a very big hammer indeed... 14:26:07 there are smaller but less convenient hammers available 14:26:54 (defmacro expand (form &environment env) (print (macroexpand form env)) form) 14:26:55 tib [n=tl@89.180.221.170] has joined #lisp 14:26:57 <_3b> lichtblau: hmm, could be, it does seem to have been changed since 1.0.25, which is what i'm looking at 14:27:19 are all the cool kids using clbuild these days? 14:27:50 then wrap an (expand) around the form you want to expand, and compile the function 14:27:56 user___ [n=user@p549277D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:07 jsnell: That's how I have been doing it. 14:28:40 I think slime-macroexpand-all is good for a first-level inspection. 14:28:53 If that doesn't help, move on to expand/expand-1 14:29:54 _3b: 3cbc1e7c a.k.a 1.0.25.9 (and orginially, 037c6feb aka 1.0.21.32) are the commits, I think. 14:30:13 <_3b> lichtblau: right, was just about to try with .25.9 14:30:59 jsnell: Any other hammers available? ;) 14:31:36 tritchey: not -all- the cool kids, but it even gets recommended on stackoverflow.com, so it must be cool 14:32:01 chaitanya: from there, it's trivial to add a kludgy macroexpand-in-environment to slime 14:32:08 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has joined #lisp 14:33:00 -!- Chrononaut [n=bjorn@cm-84.212.139.23.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:35:09 jsnell: Ohh.. k. 14:35:18 *chaitanya* should learn how slime works under the hood. 14:35:50 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-71.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:36:20 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.28] has joined #lisp 14:37:19 <_3b> lichtblau: 1.0.25.9 seems to have fixed it 14:38:25 *_3b* can run room repeatedly without problems now 14:38:43 tcr: Are you by any chance planning to implement macroexpand-in-environment anytime soon? 14:40:02 <_3b> wonder if that problem is hiding anywhere else in xc compiled code 14:40:42 -!- Necromas__ [n=Necromas@141.224.236.113] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:41:11 <_3b> i guess at least most places don't call lots of alien functions with GC turned off 14:42:40 -!- Modius [n=Modius@99.179.103.194] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 14:42:59 robsynnot [n=irchon@87-198-231-166.ptr.magnet.ie] has joined #lisp 14:44:13 that's why the xc-compiled compiler recompiles itself as soon as possible, right? 14:45:00 -!- robsynnot [n=irchon@87-198-231-166.ptr.magnet.ie] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:45:04 <_3b> lichtblau: no idea, if xc compiled code shouldn't be in the final image, something seems to be wrong though 14:46:11 mega1 [n=mega@3e44a5d4.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:46:43 ffizz [n=ffizz@p509055D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:06 dgou [n=dgou@c-67-163-142-94.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:33 which library should i use to parse xml? is there one which is accepted as "standard"? 14:47:56 ffizz: no, there is no standard. i like cxml 14:47:59 tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has joined #lisp 14:48:26 I'm fond of xmls for small xml jobs 14:49:06 H4ns, dlowe: thanks. i'll try both 14:49:19 Also, I used cxml-stp recently. It provides some very convenient functions to navigate a DOM-like XML structure. 14:49:24 dlowe: cxml can parse into a xmls compatible format if you like operating on conses. if you need full xml reading support, that sometimes come in handy. 14:49:52 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:50:07 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:42 sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 14:50:42 H4ns: yeah, if I need it, I know it's there. I just like the incredible light-weightness of xmls 14:50:47 <_death> I also liked cl-xmlspam 14:51:07 <_death> (which is used in conjunction with cxml) 14:53:35 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 14:53:35 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 14:54:40 ehird [n=ehird@eso-std.org] has joined #lisp 14:54:44 US Patent 5303380 - Object code processing system for forming an executable image by tranforming LISP-type object files into a format compatible for storage by a linker 14:54:47 :-| 14:54:59 http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5303380/description.html 14:57:01 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 14:57:09 In the CVS version of slime, slime-inspector-copy-down doesn't seem to be working anymore 14:57:12 interesting 14:57:13 Anyone aware of the issue? 14:57:32 I cant actually tell what the patent is trying to say 14:58:14 -!- Fulax is now known as Fulax|Inria 14:58:51 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:58:55 lboard [n=lboard@117.193.198.123] has joined #lisp 14:59:23 chaitanya: it's commented out due to the REPL changes, IIRC 15:00:16 ehird: "don't live in the US" 15:00:21 ehird: as far as I understand, it's about linking .fasl files into a .so shared library 15:00:24 lichtblau: So it would be coming back in soon? 15:00:27 Xof: *h* 15:00:28 *g* 15:00:47 fe[nl]ix: pretty stupid 15:00:47 chaitanya: I wouldn't know. 15:01:27 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.28] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:01:31 ehird: yes, but it affects at least Allegro, LispWorks and ecl. perhaps scl too 15:01:45 anyway, what Xof says :D 15:01:56 -!- dgou [n=dgou@c-67-163-142-94.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:02:01 it only affects those implementations if the patent owner actually sues 15:02:04 fe[nl]ix: I wonder if the devs know. 15:02:05 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:14 don't tell them 15:02:14 I'd expect Franz and LispWorks to be more bothered than ecl, though. 15:02:17 Xof: indeed 15:02:18 lichtblau: Ok. 15:02:18 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:02:32 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:02:33 jmbr__ [n=jmbr@87.223.189.246] has joined #lisp 15:02:35 hey developers of the aforementioned, ignore the previous lines. 15:06:40 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:07 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-159-228.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:58 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@195.230.105.2] has joined #lisp 15:09:11 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 15:09:56 ehird: without claiming to be a lawyer, I would expect that there would be prior art in kcl derivatives and/or clisp 15:10:03 but basically, don't worry about it 15:10:03 agreed 15:15:52 -!- Fulax|Inria [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:17:04 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@87.223.189.246] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:18:37 Modius [n=Modius@99.179.99.38] has joined #lisp 15:19:39 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:20:11 malkia [n=fircuser@m6b0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:32 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:40 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:21:52 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:23:21 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-157-214.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:24:07 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 15:29:01 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-148-215.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:42 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:30:03 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 15:30:20 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-20.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 15:31:26 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-47-203.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:33 G'morning all. 15:32:26 -!- malkia [n=fircuser@m6b0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:32:26 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-193-35.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:54 -!- tib [n=tl@89.180.221.170] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:18 delqna [n=futekova@147.210.246.189] has joined #lisp 15:36:43 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.141.10] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:37:08 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 15:40:16 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:44:23 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.51.149] has left #lisp 15:44:33 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-204.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 15:44:38 -!- ffizz [n=ffizz@p509055D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 15:44:50 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 15:44:58 hello 15:45:30 nikki93 [n=nikki@89.211.150.40] has joined #lisp 15:45:41 Is there any way to do a setf or defvar depending upon the case? 15:45:51 Like, if the variable is defined, do defvar, otherwise do setf? 15:46:06 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44a5d4.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:46:06 nikki93: defparameter does exactly that 15:46:06 why would you want to do that? 15:46:12 hi attila_lendvai 15:46:17 fe[nl]ix: Ah, ok. 15:46:26 -!- Modius [n=Modius@99.179.99.38] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:46:46 nikki93: if I understood what you meant, that is 15:47:07 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-148-215.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:08 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:47:21 hello kami- 15:47:49 antgreen [n=green@nat/redhat/x-571bfb2055c62ccb] has joined #lisp 15:47:51 I'm struggling with the slime/swank readtable stuff again 15:48:14 kami-: which project, what symptoms? 15:48:27 Zhivago: Kinda complex. I'm using Lisp to script GameObjects for a game madein C++ (with ECL), and whenever a script is executed, some global variables like *this* and *other* (in a collision event, the other GameObject), will be set so that you can access them in the script. So, if an object executes a script in a collision event, *other* is set if it isn't already defined. 15:49:03 nikki: Why can't you do that using let? 15:49:06 ... Why aren't you just binding these? 15:49:19 nikki93: (let ((*other* (or *other* (foo-bar)))) ...)? 15:49:53 Or just (let ((*other* (foo-bar))) ...), if I understand your use-case correctly? 15:50:03 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 15:50:17 tomsw [n=user@94-224-216-49.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 15:50:27 It's gotta be global. Being called from C++, and I might do some defuns within the code. 15:50:50 nikki: See 'specials' or 'dynamic variables'. 15:50:57 Ok. 15:52:12 willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:52:48 attila_lendvai: I have a system which is defined with define-dwim-system. 15:53:06 and has a :depends-on :dwim and :dwim-meta-model 15:54:27 when I M-. on defentity in a file belonging to this package, I get "no dispatch function defined for #\t" 15:55:04 kami-: is that with the official slime? it never worked there... 15:55:14 although I have a setup-readtable 15:55:21 Yes, slime head. 15:55:32 Okay. 15:55:43 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-189.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:55:56 kami-: if you remember i've given you some code snipplet last time that makes it work, and i remember that you reported back that it worked with slime head (vaguely remember, that is... :) 15:56:22 attila_lendvai: will hunt for them and see what I can achieve. Thank you. 15:57:07 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:57:07 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [Client Quit] 15:58:14 attila_lendvai: can quasiquote do xml/xhtml namespaces? 15:58:25 I would like to generate jsp code with it. 15:58:40 Which relies heavily on ns prefixes. 15:58:54 kami-: works 15:59:15 also note that the stuff inside <> is case sensitive 15:59:16 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 15:59:30 well, at least the xml name designators, that is 15:59:46 attila_lendvai: so kami-: yes 16:00:10 great! thank you. 16:01:00 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:01:09 kami-: see read-source-form in http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=cl-dwim-slime;a=headblob;f=/swank-source-path-parser.lisp 16:02:11 it will make M-. work until you C-c C-c something with funny syntax, because i didn't fix that codepath... 16:02:30 -!- lboard [n=lboard@117.193.198.123] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:03:30 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-78-36-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:04:24 attila_lendvai: I thought I had patched slime head. but my patch management has always been lousy. 16:04:38 for the record: (babel:octets-to-string (with-output-to-sequence (*html-stream*) )) => "" 16:04:38 *kami-* goes diffing 16:08:07 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit ["Be back later"] 16:09:08 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 16:10:13 -!- nikki93 [n=nikki@89.211.150.40] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:10:29 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:13:51 hmm, cl-quasi-quote/src/xml/cxml-integration.lisp looks like it's the opposite direction from what I'd want to use. It writes cxml SAX events to quasiquote. I'd like quasiquote to generate cxml SAX events for me. 16:13:52 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:14:00 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:04 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 16:16:00 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483DA79.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:43 repnop [n=repnop@ppp-69-239-23-237.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:31 lichtblau: yep, we used it to generate qq-xml syntax from soap xml examples 16:18:36 -!- delqna [n=futekova@147.210.246.189] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:20:19 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20:34 lichtblau: although the qq xml reader reads into clos ast nodes, so it'd be relatively easy to implement the other direction. src/xml/transform.lisp has the details 16:22:04 mega1 [n=mega@53d83b58.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:22:21 delqna [n=delqna@147.210.246.189] has joined #lisp 16:22:59 So what's the story on Common Lisp libraries for Email processing these days? There is an rfc2822 in mel-base, and an rfc2822 project on common-lisp.net which seem unrelated, and there is CL-MIME that I don't know the status of. 16:23:21 beach: Looking at writing an email client? 16:23:30 I always do, yes. 16:23:32 beach: cl-mime is light weight but underdocumented. it works well for me. 16:23:57 H4ns: Can it do things like parse the body of an email message independently of the character encoding in it? 16:23:59 beach: please write up a line or two at cliki.net if you find out... :) 16:24:06 beach: mel-base provides for abstractions that are not always useful, in particular if you're looking into mime processing. 16:24:13 attila_lendvai: Sure. 16:24:35 beach: that i can't tell out of my head. 16:24:37 acieroid` [n=quentin@52.21.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:39 H4ns: I know. I am going to take it out of Stamp, I think. 16:26:26 Sukoshi` [n=MuneNoKa@par0978.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:26:30 Additional possible benefit of a "smarter unwind" system: Being able to ditch the binding stack. 16:30:05 flazz [n=franco@qubes.org] has joined #lisp 16:30:14 -!- aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:30:49 aggieben [n=chatzill@63.246.56.57] has joined #lisp 16:32:04 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:32 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:36:25 -!- acieroid [n=quentin@220.21.83-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:37:50 -!- acieroid` is now known as acieroid 16:42:06 -!- eslick [n=eslick@dhcp-23-106.media.mit.edu] has quit ["Reverting to analog"] 16:42:15 eslick [n=eslick@dhcp-23-106.media.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 16:42:53 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 16:44:30 -!- HimitsuNaiyou [n=MuneNoKa@par0978.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:45:07 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:46:03 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 16:51:17 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:51:36 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:52:30 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:52:39 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279441483.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:54:42 froydnj [n=froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 16:56:47 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:58:24 nyef: is that a practical possibility performancewise? 17:00:05 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:00:25 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 17:01:04 dwave [n=ask@062249179063.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 17:01:19 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:02:44 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:45 -!- slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:03:49 arunmib [n=arunmib@lawn-128-61-126-198.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 17:03:49 mega1: I don't know, but it'd be nice to be able to find out. 17:04:00 hello all.... 17:04:21 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@83.103.127.195] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:05:33 i want to try out some GUI programming with LISP....i'm comfortable with doing some 'hello world' first to enjoy how things work and then delve into deeper concepts.... 17:05:48 is there wany tutorial of that sort any one can refer to.... 17:06:03 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 17:06:17 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 17:08:40 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:08:57 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:06 halooooo '< 17:09:14 hi 17:09:22 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:10:20 -!- BrianRice-mb is now known as BrianRice 17:10:33 lisp has bindings for various graphical toolkits, i prefer mcclim 17:11:06 http://constantly.at/lisp/ui.html looks like a tutorial 17:11:19 hmmm....thanks stassats...i'll look into it... 17:12:30 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 17:12:53 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:11 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 17:15:07 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 17:15:10 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:17:41 -!- PissedNumlock 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[i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:05:20 uroboros [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 18:05:42 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:07:23 Bootvis [n=brj@g37065.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 18:09:12 rey_ [i=pdewacht@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 18:09:36 slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B70C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:36 nyef: do you understand why I can't emit-alignment in *elsewhere*? 18:12:16 Not immediately. What are you trying to do, and what error are you getting? 18:12:55 -!- slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B70C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:14:35 I'm trying to get an aligned address I can pass around as a fixnum (that, or an offset from the component's start). 18:15:53 If I do that in elsewhere, I get failed AVER: "(<= 0 SIZE OLD-SIZE)" in finalize-positions. 18:16:03 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:06 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y217.net.upc.cz] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:19:37 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@CMU-221270.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:19:56 I think I see what's going on. The segment's alignment is defaulted to max-alignment. 18:20:08 I don't think that's quite it. 18:20:20 Have a look at the x86oid conditional in append-segment. 18:20:24 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B44C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:20:50 yes, I don't see why. 18:21:14 I don't see why either, but if it's -not- aligned sufficiently for your new alignment, your alignment could need to expand. 18:21:44 yes, my alignment assumes it's already in sync, but it turns out it's not. The AVER is just a bit opaque at first. 18:22:40 I'll just *not lie* in init-assembler, then. 18:23:02 I'd have taken out that conditional, myself. 18:23:36 The only use for it that I can think of is saving core space, and if you have a use-case for alignment in *elsewhere*, that breaks down. 18:25:04 but if I initialize segment-alignment correctly in init-assembler, I get alignment in *elsewhere* and still save core space otherwise. 18:26:02 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has quit [" You know what they say about people obsessed with speed, right? Athas: what? They, uh, would do] 18:26:24 ... Are you sure about that? 18:27:17 yes. I initialize the alignment for *elsewhere* to 0 bits. If you don't use alignment anywhere, it doesn't matter. If you do, you'll still get it right. 18:31:38 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:32:23 -!- lboard [n=lboard@117.193.198.123] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 18:32:35 Fair enough. 18:35:21 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-702dfaefdb3b8a04] has joined #lisp 18:35:43 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 18:38:56 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B4D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:39 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B4D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:40:08 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B4D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:13 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 18:43:52 while we are in the assembler, is there anything to be gained by using the instruction scheduler on x86? 18:44:43 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:59 not much. There's much more to be gained with a peephole pass to optimise useless moves away, especially by taking advantage of x86-style addresses. 18:46:08 I wonder how that would interact with the instruction-boundary variable lifetime information that I want to start seeing? 18:46:33 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:46 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [No route to host] 18:47:13 For numeric code, anyway. No scheduler, but a better instruction selection got me a 50% improvement in a compiler, and ~on par with -O3 gcc. 18:53:06 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B4D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:53:28 thanks. Other thing I've been wondering about is whether the instruction scheduler can reorder writes? 18:53:30 nyef: all that for . Huge hack, and less efficient (~600c to save, 300 to restore) than a DSL. 18:54:15 t 18:54:17 err 18:54:35 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:55:21 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@63.224.130.99] has joined #lisp 18:56:59 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfda1.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 18:58:43 -!- ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:59:42 pkhuong: What on earth...? 19:00:17 tomsw` [n=user@12.225-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:00:23 nyef: save IP and the stack frame (: 19:01:41 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 19:03:07 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:03:31 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:03:45 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:05 pkhuong: This for serializing a continuation somehow? 19:04:43 -!- tomsw` [n=user@12.225-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:06:09 I don't think it'd be as efficient as using a couple macros for that. The only advantage is that it's ``transparent'', and even then, it leaks a bit... 19:06:34 ibor [n=ibor@134.76.225.40] has joined #lisp 19:07:30 And I'd still have to wrap each call frame to save the appropriate info. Far from ideal. 19:08:17 Yeah, it'd be better if you could run it entirely from the debug info... Which probably shows exactly where my mind is at this point. 19:08:58 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 19:09:17 -!- ibor [n=ibor@134.76.225.40] has left #lisp 19:09:43 And where's the binding stack stuff in all this? 19:11:50 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:57 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@63.224.130.99] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:12:01 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:04 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:12:06 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@63.224.130.99] has joined #lisp 19:12:26 not.. I guess save-stack could handle it/restore-frame could handle it, but dynamic state and coroutines don't really mix well, imo. 19:12:46 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:48 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:04 -!- Sukoshi` [n=MuneNoKa@par0978.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:15:24 Sukoshi` [n=MuneNoKa@par0978.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 19:16:22 -!- tomsw [n=user@94-224-216-49.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:19:33 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-190-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:05 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:24:00 -!- sulo [n=sulo@p57B49E34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:24:35 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:47 guille_ [n=guille_@4.Red-81-37-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:55 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:26:10 -!- guille_ [n=guille_@4.Red-81-37-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:27:27 sulo [n=sulo@p57B49E34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:28:36 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@63.224.130.99] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:30:14 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF09F29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:47 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 19:33:04 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.72.144] has joined #lisp 19:33:49 -!- ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.72.144] has quit [Client Quit] 19:34:56 Right, I'm gone for the rest of the day. 19:35:02 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-47-203.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["G'afternoon all."] 19:35:09 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.72.144] has joined #lisp 19:35:32 -!- uroboros is now known as mjf 19:37:33 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 19:37:45 mjf [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:38:12 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-63-159.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:38:20 nrub [n=nrub@209-203-114-154.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:28 trebor_h` [n=user@dslb-084-059-028-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:39 -!- tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:43:31 -!- user___ [n=user@p549277D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:45:45 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1176024142.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:48:22 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 19:48:37 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF09F29.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Success] 19:49:30 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:49:40 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 19:49:42 X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #lisp 20:06:40 -!- r1nu- [n=debian~@ppp-94-68-56-155.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["*.*"] 20:08:29 r1nu- [n=debian~@ppp-94-68-56-155.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:10:54 clhs fequal 20:10:54 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for fequal. 20:10:58 clhs eq 20:10:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_eq.htm 20:13:40 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-133.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:14:56 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-183-8.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:18:41 Sbidicuda [n=antani@host45-35-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:21:44 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 20:22:01 jao [n=jao@250.Red-79-155-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:43 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:22:45 schoppen1auer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:22:57 -!- schoppen1auer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:27:06 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27:10 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 20:28:31 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:30:57 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:31:12 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:32 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:33:01 Off to cambridge I go! See y'all at the BLM 20:33:48 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-159-228.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:51 rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:33 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:36:40 jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has joined #lisp 20:46:09 -!- dwave [n=ask@062249179063.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 20:49:53 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslc-082-082-054-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:00 Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:54:06 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 20:56:07 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AE8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:22 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:59:24 stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:01:50 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 21:02:29 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfda1.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:02:55 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:03:06 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:03:50 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [Client Quit] 21:04:07 -!- BrianRice-mb is now known as BrianRice 21:04:35 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:05:23 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:06:30 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:07:19 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 21:07:30 Greetings! 21:10:57 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit [] 21:11:34 tmh: greetings, human 21:13:15 hunams? where? 21:14:00 What are hunams? 21:14:30 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AE8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:14:34 hunams: meatbags 21:14:41 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host68-211-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 21:14:51 meatbags: gutsacks 21:14:52 They are made out of meat. 21:15:18 ugly bags of mostly water, even 21:15:35 This is what i can find : The term comes from the cult mid-1990s computer game Star Control 2 21:15:56 auclairb: true :) 21:16:00 A speaker may also elongate and distress "human" as (phonetically) "huyewmahhhhn" for a use similar to "hunam," taken from low-budget 1950s movies with aliens or robots. 21:16:32 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:16:47 lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:16:50 Of what use are hunams? 21:16:57 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:07 tmh: They are superb at destroying a planet. 21:17:13 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 21:18:17 *tmh* imagines viruses 21:18:36 Jabberwockey: Wow destroy a planet? How do they do that? 21:18:46 Gigantic nuclear bomb ? 21:19:16 We're an excellent terraforming species for those races made of styrofoam that breathe hydroflourocarbons 21:19:22 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 21:19:34 once we've made enough, they will come 21:19:58 auclairb: First they produce problems and then they expertly explain that those problems were made by anything else but them. 21:20:29 auclairb: That way they can rationally avoid tackling the problem until the problem eradicates all life on that planet, including them. 21:20:29 Jabberwockey: how can explaining problems destroy a planet ? 21:20:38 auclairb: Not explaining them can :) 21:20:46 Jebberwockey: oh so the planet isn't destroyed 21:20:52 Not yet. 21:20:52 Jabberwockey: only the life? 21:21:02 auclairb: Yes. 21:21:41 auclairb: Parentheses are destroying the planet. All of these lispers are generating too many parentheses. 21:21:56 tmh: I like you transitions :) 21:23:11 tmh: I really dont get this stuff about destroying the planet, are pancakes destroying the planet? 21:24:56 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:47 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:25:56 auclairb: No, lisp is destroying the planet. All of these superb minds endlessly generating code with lots of parentheses instead of solving global warming or the financial crisis. I'm just here to get everyone off-topic in the hope that they'll be distracted into doing something useful, instead of lisp. 21:26:23 With all the offtopic stuff and noone to remind us this channel is supposed to be about lisp leaves me wondering where has Xach been ? 21:26:45 Another superb mind lost to lisp. 21:27:28 I haven't seen him here in months 21:27:46 Is there a bot that keeps track of the people that come here? 21:27:54 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 21:28:02 Some kind of lastseen feature? 21:28:03 minion: seen Xach 21:28:04 xach was last seen 5y6m14d32h43m10s ago, saying "minion: when are you going to support seen?" 21:28:09 (no) 21:28:20 I'm still happy to tell you to stay on topic, though 21:28:21 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@195.230.105.2] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:28:32 xach was here briefly last week. 21:28:34 Krystof: Thanks :) 21:28:34 try writing code; I find it helps 21:28:43 -!- spec[away] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:28:52 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-8-32.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:29:15 (when (off-topic discussion) (squelch discussion)) 21:29:27 or should that be off-topic-p 21:29:31 or off-topic? 21:29:35 I'm horrible at names 21:30:16 eslick: Depends what dialect you write. 21:30:22 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:30:29 off-topic-p is pretty much the CL-syntax 21:30:47 or convention 21:31:26 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.172] has joined #lisp 21:34:54 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 21:35:17 Welcome back! 21:40:52 Good evening. 21:40:54 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-78-36-253.netcologne.de] has quit [] 21:44:06 spec[away] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 21:44:34 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:47:10 clhs import 21:47:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_import.htm 21:48:45 clhs load 21:48:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_load.htm 21:48:50 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d83b58.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:50:36 -!- Sbidicuda [n=antani@host45-35-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:51:54 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-182.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:52:45 -!- spec[away] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:53:53 -!- kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 21:54:13 dmead_home, you might download the hyperspec, get http://common-lisp.net/project/hyperspec-lookup/ , and have it open a web browser on your local system. Or get hyperspec.el and do this in Emacs. You can also answer some questions at the REPL with (describe 'load) 21:57:12 schoppenhauer [n=css@p5B0BC29E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:34 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.9] has joined #lisp 21:59:15 There is also l1sp.org. I created a search engine for it the other day: http://mycroft.mozdev.org/search-engines.html?name=l1sp 22:00:44 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 22:00:55 You can also just type "clhs " in google and it will link to the hyperspec. 22:01:09 tsuru` [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:19 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:01:27 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:01:47 Even searching lisp is lispy. There are several ways to do it. :-) 22:01:49 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:02:07 <_death> I have a local copy of the clhs and use slime's `C-c C-d h' to lookup symbols, `C-c C-d ~' to lookup format directives, etc. 22:03:06 dstanev [n=chatzill@external.treyarch.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:15 -!- dstanev is now known as malkia 22:03:32 -!- Bootvis [n=brj@g37065.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:04:00 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has quit [] 22:04:34 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:06:31 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:06:34 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 22:06:54 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:49 spec[away] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 22:10:51 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision 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slime?I am trying to run exmaple from 'practical common lisp':CL-USER> (defpackage :com.gigamonkeys.web (:use :cl :net.aserve :com.gigamonkeys.html))but it gives me error : The name "NET.ASERVE" does not designate any package. 23:37:05 i am using debian and package cl-aserve is installed 23:37:15 -!- ahaas [n=ahaas@c-76-17-41-185.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:37:51 gorilych: try (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :aserve) 23:39:26 thanks. next error is:component ASERVE-SYSTEM::ACL-COMPAT not found, required by# [Condition of type ASDF:MISSING-DEPENDENCY] 23:39:54 gorilych: try installing cl-acl-compat 23:40:51 great, thank you. trying it. 23:41:19 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 23:41:37 PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 23:42:51 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:43:28 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:12 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-71.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:45:16 fe[nl]ix: thank you, that worked. 23:45:34 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 23:46:06 silas428 [n=ryan@c-67-182-172-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:13 spec[away] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 23:48:44 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Client Quit] 23:49:59 -!- spec[away] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Client Quit] 23:52:44 Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:01 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-190-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:24 jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@pool-71-112-112-231.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:28 -!- silas428 [n=ryan@c-67-182-172-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."]