00:00:20 ayrnieu pasted "waah, SBCL doesn't have posix-setenv" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75743 00:00:36 The link's a bit old, but see http://www.lispmachine.net/symbolics.txt 00:01:08 $3,500 is damn good... but the shipping is the problem... 00:01:08 (the new style keyboard I bought was $125) 00:01:14 except the last line should be (posix-setenv ... 1) 00:01:18 I imagine the shipping would make it near-impossible 00:01:20 rme_: that's great! I didn't realize they had come back from the dead 00:01:26 unless you live really close 00:01:35 eslick: I think it's always been like this, just low profile 00:03:04 The stuff's all used, of course. 00:04:26 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 00:04:35 dkschmidt@compuserve.com is who I've talked to, so if you want a price quotation or other information, it's probably worth writing to him. (David K. Schmidt) 00:05:11 I wonder why. They probably don't make a lot of money and if they are just enthusiasts it'd be in their interest to opensource their stuff 00:05:37 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A27186.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 00:05:47 rme_: he's the one who left that comment 00:05:48 ruediger, look at how hard it was for Sun to open Solaris. 00:06:01 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 00:06:16 ruediger: they probably just have their stuff lying around, and there's no commercial interest so they just keep the company running and if someone wants to buy something, well, all the better 00:06:25 ayrnieu: sure it's not an easy process. But I guess the amount of third party code in symbolics is far lower than in Slowaris 00:07:14 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 00:08:10 -!- jacks- [n=legi@c-66-229-119-91.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 00:08:12 it's probably completely written by Symbolics and maybe some stuff licensed from MIT. 00:10:11 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:10:37 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:10:56 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y225.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 00:11:24 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:11:31 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:35 ayrnieu [n=Brucio-8@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:18 mjf [n=mjf@r6y225.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 00:12:19 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y225.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:31 mjf [n=mjf@r6y225.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 00:17:05 auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has joined #lisp 00:17:08 -!- tcr1 [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:20:39 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y225.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 00:21:05 mjf [n=mjf@r6y225.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 00:21:23 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y225.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 00:24:08 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:24:19 mjf [n=mjf@r6y225.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 00:25:27 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:26:22 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:27:35 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:27:37 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 00:27:49 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@75.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 00:31:33 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["c Ya"] 00:33:43 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:33:49 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y225.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:41:14 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-118-255.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:42:55 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:47 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 00:45:24 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:00 _dima_ [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has joined #lisp 00:50:19 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e70db23.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:50:37 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:52:14 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 00:53:52 Anyone have an email address handy for Gabor Melis? I just rebuilt SBCL and ran tests ... threads.pure.lisp is failing for me. 00:55:46 -!- _dima [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:56:09 Guest82189: you can report the problem to sbcl-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 00:58:08 Thanks. The most likely sequence is: send email, get rejection, subscribe, send email, unsubscribe. 01:00:51 actually, send mail to sbcl-bugs 01:00:54 it accepts mail from anyone 01:01:40 i guess nobody updated the website yet. :) 01:02:12 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:42 Guest82189: use gmane 01:03:36 Guest82189: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.steel-bank.devel 01:04:30 Does anyone know anything more about bug 310175 (backtracing can construct bogus objects)? There isn't much information in the system about it. 01:04:42 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:06:06 It sounds like make-lisp-obj is called on addresses that aren't objects. But make-lisp-obj was enhanced to do a lot more sanity checking somewhere along the line so I'm not sure if that's still valid 01:06:09 -!- X-Scale2 is now known as X-Scale 01:06:30 Yeah, and there's no actual information given on how to enable the extra checks that catch it. 01:09:31 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:09:43 could ask on the bug for more info. :) 01:09:55 Yeah, but that'd require setting up an account. 01:10:20 I already know that sorting out backtracing is going to be a pain anyway. 01:10:48 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:53 there was a bug reported on cll about simplify-unions looping forever or something 01:12:16 that is, COMPILE looped forever 01:12:16 nyef: perhaps verify_after_free_heap = 1? 01:12:59 hey neat, I have some code where compile gets in an infinite loop, but I wasn't able to simplify it into a reportable test case. 01:13:29 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-204-206.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 01:14:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/75751 01:14:13 Bug 309472, for example, essentially requires adding debug-funs for assembly-routines. 01:14:39 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:14:48 yeah, correct unwinding will require that. 01:15:06 I figured as much. 01:15:12 the linux kernel went through some pain because of that issue 01:15:28 with their kernel-exported userspace functions 01:15:52 should i send that to sbcl-bugs? 01:15:58 Ah, yes. The vDSO. 01:16:04 for a while nobody thought about how those would need dwarf unwind info too. :) 01:16:56 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [] 01:17:02 weirdo: best to register a launchpad account and report it to the bugtracker directly, but if you aren't willing to do that, then yes, sending it to that mailing list is the next best thing. 01:17:12 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:16 The other thing I like about bug 309472 is the comment ";;; bind * to foil TCO", which doesn't foil TCO for #'FAIL. 01:19:04 nyef pasted "Commentary at the top of my local copy of debug-int.lisp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75753 01:19:29 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:19:43 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:32 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:20:36 huh, I get a backtrace out of that example 01:20:38 on x86-64 01:20:45 (linux) 01:20:51 Yeah, but it doesn't include FAIL, does it? 01:21:17 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:41 yes... but this is an old sbcl (1.0.19.25). 01:21:56 Yes it does, or yes it doesn't? 01:22:14 0: ("no debug information for frame") 01:22:14 1: (FAIL 12)[:EXTERNAL] 01:22:14 2: (FOO) 01:22:20 Hunh. Neat. 01:22:24 You know why? 01:22:29 nope! 01:23:26 (rest of backtrace omitted: it goes all the way back through 12: ((LABELS SB-IMPL::RESTART-LISP))) 01:23:31 THROW is set as return-style :none, and even if it were set return-style :full, some recent optimizations no longer set up a full stack frame until a static-fun needs to get called. 01:24:19 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:24:57 Anyway, "no debug information for frame" is non-optimal. And the situation with the undefined_tramp? Eesh. 01:25:45 And we can't even move the undefined_tramp (or its friends) into read-only space because of genesis, even if it would allow us to come closer to getting it to do the right thing. 01:26:05 runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 01:26:57 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has quit [] 01:27:00 -!- KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:27:04 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 01:27:14 well, once sbcl uses platform unwinder, the asm can be annotated with unwind info directly and all will be well. :) 01:27:25 simple...hah 01:27:59 Right... except on win32. 01:28:24 I think we need to use platform unwind for actual unwinding, but keep our own council for debugging. 01:28:50 -!- dont [n=dont@94.27.113.139] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:29:11 because win32 has no backtrace-with-unwinder function? 01:29:15 dont [n=dont@94.27.113.139] has joined #lisp 01:29:53 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-170.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:29:55 Basically, yeah. It's SEH isn't based on unwinding. 01:30:16 And, at the same time, we already produce debug info in our format for our debugger. 01:30:35 there certainly is that 01:31:01 -!- _Soulman_ [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:31:13 -!- The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087F3AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:31:15 Which is actually one reason why I think the "quick hack" unwind solution might be reasonable. 01:31:59 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-197-224-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:32:45 now wait, even on windows, you have a language for describing unwinding. What's that for, then? 01:33:02 Win32 or windows x64? 01:33:18 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:26 hrm, is it only for win64? 01:33:37 Yeah, and it's crippled compared with dwarf. 01:33:51 But it does have a documented-and-supported VirtualUnwind() function. 01:33:53 right, I knew it was crippled, you have a much more limited allowed format for your function 01:34:22 That special microsoftian combination of a spectacularly right thing and horriffic brokenness. 01:34:25 ah, http://blogs.msdn.com/freik/archive/2006/01/04/509372.aspx explains it nicely 01:34:35 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:19 on x86, you can assume that you always have a frame pointer though, can't you? 01:35:41 Semi-sortof... but not really. 01:36:44 Since certain places do frame pointer elision... like the bloody SEH exception dispatcher. 01:37:00 Can't backtrace through that. 01:37:00 heh heh 01:37:30 Of course, you only want to do that when you're, you know, handling a breakpoint trap or access violation. 01:38:15 So there's a hack in place to set up a dummy stack frame that skips over all that and links using the frame pointer recovered from the exception context. 01:38:49 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:38:59 x86-assem.S, exception_handler_wrapper. 01:39:08 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host95.190-137-241.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:41:56 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:38 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host205.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:57 -!- milanj [n=milan@cable-89-216-113-6.static.sbb.rs] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:48:03 Ooh. x86-64 disassembler nonoptimality: LEA [RIP+n], where the target is within the instruction stream should generate a label, but doesn't. 01:48:11 -!- eslick [n=eslick@dhcp-23-106.media.mit.edu] has quit ["Reverting to analog"] 01:49:37 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:02 -!- Tordek_ [n=tordek@host95.190-137-241.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:58:09 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 02:02:56 younder [n=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 02:06:36 sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B52C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:14:28 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-56.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 02:16:33 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:19:41 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-0b25b3e6dba8b208] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:21:34 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.112.217] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:22:49 -!- sulo__ [n=sulo@p57B4B5B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:25:40 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-223-182-13.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 02:27:26 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-148-59.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:32:33 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:39:36 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 02:40:43 flint [n=flint@c-98-242-65-63.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:33 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:50:21 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:58 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 02:57:08 Lenolium [n=Rawb@rawb.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #lisp 02:58:02 -!- stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:58:29 dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-34-140.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:38 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:45 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:11 So, I'm having a very hard time converting octects of a utf-8 json response into a proper string, I'm trying flex:octets-to-string, and that seems to just lock up. 03:00:49 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 03:01:06 Is there a better way to convert a bunch of bytes into a string (properly handling the utf-8 encoding)? 03:01:06 *wgl* test 03:01:42 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit ["*pop*"] 03:03:11 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:03:41 there are other libraries that you can use, but can you give an example of what fails? I just passed some chinese through OK. 03:06:50 an alternative is http://common-lisp.net/project/babel/ , which http://cliki.net/Current%20Recommended%20Libraries suggests to be faster 03:09:07 Lenolium pasted "UTF-8 decoding error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75755 03:09:17 ayrnieu: I'm attempting to read the last posts from the twitter public feed, and it bombs out. (see the paste) 03:10:07 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0394.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:10:17 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 03:10:20 I'll just give that other library a try. 03:10:37 *wgl* another test 03:11:01 that's really weird. 03:11:09 that WFM when I use :external-format :utf-8 03:11:52 but fails as you describe (first it complains about a character, then I can only speak to the debugger) with (flex:make-external-format :utf-8) 03:12:19 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:56 ayrnieu: Hahaha, well I don't mind removing that. 03:14:05 ah, no, I found the problem 03:14:20 try it with (flex:make-external-format :utf-8 :eol-style :crlf) 03:15:15 ... hm. 03:15:35 stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 03:18:23 now it just plain WFM. I can't get the error again. 03:25:36 Tordek [n=tordek@host95.190-137-241.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:27:17 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-137-0.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:33:01 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:34:54 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 03:38:17 robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has joined #lisp 03:38:34 -!- robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:39:07 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.137.172] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:42:11 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:42:18 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 03:43:22 benny [n=benny@i577A05C9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:45:48 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.152] has joined #lisp 03:45:59 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:49:13 -!- stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:49:24 Mornin' 03:52:20 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:55 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 03:54:37 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 04:00:48 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:13:48 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:47 Good morning. 04:18:09 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:18 -!- kg [n=imkin@little-black-box.vmware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:20:44 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.141.26] has joined #lisp 04:22:05 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:23:49 beach: Yes, yes it is (: 04:24:12 -!- tritchey 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[n=user@bothawui.bothan.net] has quit ["bye!"] 05:13:20 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 05:14:42 -!- flint [n=flint@c-98-242-65-63.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:19:39 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 05:20:44 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:20:46 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:23:35 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:24:16 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:31:10 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:31:40 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:42 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:02 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 05:38:05 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:45 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0E6DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:49 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA3CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:38:51 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 05:39:35 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA3CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:44:11 beach: Good morning 05:56:08 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 05:58:02 -!- ayrnieu [n=Brucio-8@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:58:09 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["leaving"] 05:59:57 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:39 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:39 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 06:08:23 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 06:09:35 poet [n=tim@64.198.227.149] has joined #lisp 06:10:38 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:10:56 jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:12:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/75764 (occurs-iter 1 '(1 2 3)) results in Argument X is not a NUMBER: (2 3) why? 06:14:35 (do ((i 0 (cdr lst))) <-- (cdr lst) , when lst is '(1 2 3) , returns '(2 3) 06:15:47 The third element there becomes the new value of i , so you should update i there instead of SETFing it below. 06:17:48 ayrnieu: sorry, I'm not following. in the update porition of the do macro, I should put my conditional that updates i? 06:18:11 in the update portion, you should put an express that evaluates to the new value of i 06:18:16 an expression 06:18:46 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 06:19:27 so (if (= x (car lst)) (+ i 1) i) 06:20:04 yes, that'll work. 06:20:55 is the proper way to indent that to leave it all on one line? 06:21:35 it's not too long on one line, but if it were I'd intend it like a normal multi-line IF 06:22:06 indent. So, a newline after (= x (car lst)) , (+ i 1) and i both aligned to that. 06:22:31 yeah, that makes sense 06:22:51 so how to get rid of the quote after the first iteration? 06:23:36 please call it 'list' instead of 'lst'. It won't conflict with the function of the same name. And please use endp instead of null to test for the end of list: endp differs that it will throw an error if you pass it a non-list, whereas null will test true for 1, #(a b c), and other non-lists. 06:23:50 poet - what quote do you mean? 06:25:09 well if I pass '(1 2 3) as the list argument, you said cdr of that results in '(2 3), which then causes the error? 06:25:43 sorry, it'll result in (2 3) -- there's no quote. The error came from (+ i 1) when i was bound to (2 3) 06:26:06 ohh I see 06:27:58 cool, thanks for the help 06:28:50 you're welcome. 06:33:22 ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 06:36:15 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:39:34 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:10 http://paste.lisp.org/display/75764#2 it appears to miss the first element of the list, but I'm not quite sure why 06:47:00 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:47:17 the third form of (count 0 (if ...)) isn't evaluated until after (setf list (cdr list)) 06:48:39 hrm, is there a more elegant solution than a temporary variable? 06:49:27 (do ((count 0 (if ...)) (list list (cdr list))) ((endp list) ...)) 06:49:54 a DO without a body isn't unusual for recursive algorithms like this 06:50:27 interesting, probably why the exercise has me write a recursive version next 06:51:31 -!- ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:54:48 I'm a bit confused where the cdr is placed. Inside the if statement it looks like? How is that allowed? 06:56:25 (list list (cdr list)) <-- the first part names the variable that the DO introduces (you can give it a different name if this is confusing, but the old binding would only be visible in the initializers of DO's bindings; everything else refers to the new LIST), the second initializes it, the third updates it. 06:56:41 Remember that those clauses of DO are of the form (binding initial-value step) 06:57:08 Does (list list (cdr list)) make more sense now? 06:58:02 ah! so here we have two DO clauses? one for the list and one for the counter variable 06:58:32 I haven't seen the original form, but that would sound likely. 06:58:55 we have the one DO that maintains the two variables COUNT and LIST 06:59:12 Ok, then it maintains those bindings and steps them in parallel. 07:01:24 (do ((bind init step) (bind2 init2 step2) ... (bindn initn stepn)) ...) -- by contrast, do-all-symbols only maintains one binding, so it looks like (do-all-symbols (sym) ...) instead of (do-all-symbols ((sym)) ...) 07:05:34 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:07:06 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:09:27 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.114] has joined #lisp 07:11:00 dhess [n=user@bothawui.bothan.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:51 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:15:50 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 07:19:07 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:19:32 blah, by another contrast: (let ((x 0)) (loop for x = x then (1+ x) until (> x 10) collect x)) ;; LOOP's X is bound before it can use LET's binding. 07:19:37 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:20:33 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:24:10 -!- TDT [n=TDT@113.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:27:24 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 07:29:54 -!- H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA3CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:30:37 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA3CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:32:10 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:32:44 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A05C9.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:34:19 arynieu: I've been thinking that there's really no reason that a form like (3 + 4) shouldn't be valid in lisp, except for historical pattern matching implementation decisions. 07:37:48 mega1 [n=mega@3e70db23.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:37:56 and (t format "hello"), (i + j) ? 07:38:09 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 07:38:10 sure. 07:38:56 There's no particular reason that we can't match patterns like (? + ?) or (? format ?). 07:39:39 or ((not (fboundp ?)) (fboundp ?) &rest ...) 07:40:05 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:40:31 unless it would be better if only some functions were promoted to infix? 07:40:41 It's not about infix. 07:40:53 (3 4 +) would be just as good an example. 07:41:13 I guess the point is that lisp syntax is really about nestable clauses, not about prefix notation. 07:41:29 Prefixes just happen to be a common convention, with some benefits for early implementors. 07:41:55 OK, sure. 07:42:08 Once it's about clauses, then you see the parentheses as making clause boundaries explicit. 07:42:51 -!- whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:42:54 Then you can say "let's infer implicit clause boundaries", and now 4 + i * j turns into (4 + (i * j)) 07:43:29 Likewise, perhaps add 2 + 4 2 - 9 should be able to be inferred to be (add (2 + 4) (2 - 9)) 07:44:08 Then you can think of other classes of disambiguation punctuation, such as commas -- add 2 + 4, 2 - 9 07:44:46 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:56 good morning 07:45:04 morning 07:45:23 Traveler101 [n=traveler@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 07:45:39 You can see haskell as a kind of step in this direction. 07:45:46 so if you want to get s-expressions out of some foreign representation, you say "where are the clauses?" and just wrap them with parens. And then look at the result as lisp with different conventions. 07:45:50 which is bet implementaion and library to develop a windows gui application 07:46:13 Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has joined #lisp 07:46:55 traveler - for free? Try CCL. For not a lot of money? Try Corman Lisp. Disclaimer: I don't have experience with windows GUIs in either of these. 07:47:25 ayrnieu: library 07:47:36 CCL has native windows bindings; Corman Lisp does, too. 07:47:57 you could get ABCL on then use Qtjambi through Java. 07:48:54 ayrnieu: Sure, except that I wouldn't say 'foreign' -- interpreting s-expressions is always contextual. 07:49:18 ECL may be useful due to C code production. 07:50:29 is it possible to develop a library like java/swing for lisp 07:50:29 whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has joined #lisp 07:50:34 ayrnieu: This just extends that to interpreting how an s-expression is structured in terms of atoms and forms. 07:50:34 or it already exist 07:50:59 Traveler: Are you familiar with Clojure? 07:51:15 Zhivago - you might take a look at Rebol. Its reader looks at expressions with a knowledge of the arity of the functions in the expression, so there's no disambiguation markers in practice, and no need for Haskell's $ , parentheses, etc. 07:51:25 no i want to do it in cl 07:52:42 what? No mention of McClim? 07:53:25 vostibackle [n=vosti@cpe-24-28-81-28.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:53:34 has anyone tried compiling cl-irc lately with sbcl? 07:53:38 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:53:44 I'm getting a missing symbol in flexi-streams 07:54:11 vastibackle - you need the CVS version of cl-irc 07:54:37 well, the svn version. 07:55:21 ok, thanks 07:55:56 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 07:57:02 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:57:11 Is it possible to import an unexported symbol from a specific package in DEFPACKAGE form? 07:58:04 ayrnieu: the trunk? 07:58:08 vy: :import-from does that 07:58:12 clhs defpackage 07:58:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm 07:58:12 vostibackle - yes. 07:58:19 ayrnieu: great, thanks a lot :) 07:58:34 antifuchs: Hrm... I couldn't make it work. Strange. 07:58:56 watch how you specify the symbol names 07:59:22 I'll try to narrow down my problem. 07:59:26 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:59:29 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:59:36 best to use uninterned symbols, upcased strings, or keywords to avoid name clashes 07:59:42 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:01:40 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:45 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:01:49 Traveler101: also take a look at http://mcclim.cliki.net/index ; there's this report http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcclim.devel/1107 , and you could try the gtk-cairo backend. 08:02:07 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 08:02:15 -!- jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:02:33 antifuchs: moin 08:02:41 o hai, lichtblau (: 08:02:54 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:03:00 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:22 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:03:29 I spotted the problem. The packages are defined sequentially but the symbols are defined after the packages are defined. Therefore, in the latter package, I cannot import an unexported symbol -- that's to be defined later -- from a former package. 08:03:36 antifuchs: You just couldn't resist putting up that terrible photo from the sushi restaurant right next to my full name, could you? 08:03:57 ooooooh. I can remove the name 08:04:19 sorry for that, I think I asked you if I could put it online 08:04:30 ayrnieu: does mcclim work on windows 08:04:59 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o antifuchs 08:05:18 oh, I don't mind having it online with my first name. Having it as the _only_ google image search for my full name is bit unfortunate. :-) 08:05:28 -!- antifuchs changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, SBCL 1.0.25, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.12, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10 08:05:33 ouch! 08:05:39 I'll remove it (: 08:05:40 Traveler101 - someone got it running with the X backend over two years ago, so I'd think so. 08:07:25 Traveler101: I always like to see people trying out CCL, of course, but LispWorks is a good choice for making shrinkwrapped-style Windows apps. 08:07:26 lichtblau: I don't know if that will undo the damage, but it's only your first name now (: 08:08:04 thanks. I'll have to spam properly photoshopped pictures into the search results. :-) 08:08:32 that should do it (: 08:15:33 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.158.114] has joined #lisp 08:17:50 -!- vostibackle [n=vosti@cpe-24-28-81-28.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["leaving"] 08:18:13 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:18:24 vostibackle [n=vosti@cpe-24-28-81-28.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:18:41 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:20:19 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:21:56 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0E6DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:23:03 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:28:35 nostoi [n=nostoi@212.Red-88-23-57.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:39 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:29:26 tcr1 [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:30:27 -!- tcr1 [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 08:31:38 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:32:59 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 08:33:37 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.114] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:33:50 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:33:54 -!- Grilinctus is now known as Aankhen`` 08:34:52 b4 [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:36:33 what's more valuable, being able to dispatch on variable-length lambda-lists in generic functions, or being able to use &key, &rest, etc? 08:37:47 don't lose your &keys 08:39:27 fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:41 yeah. I might just drop the whole variable-length ll thing. It seems pretty neat, but being able to do &key seems more useful :-\ 08:40:19 standard output is sys:*stdout* in CMUCL, where is it in SBCL ? sb-sys? 08:40:20 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 08:40:21 moin 08:40:35 scheng [n=scheng@221.10.25.6] has joined #lisp 08:41:03 sb-sys:*stdout*? 08:41:12 -!- scheng [n=scheng@221.10.25.6] has left #lisp 08:41:18 I should have just tried that first I suppose 08:41:24 probably ;) 08:41:50 hmm, no unix package 08:42:49 fph: APROPOS is your friend 08:42:53 are there 'symlink' and 'unlink' equivalents, or better a list of translations somewhere 08:42:56 sb-posix , but it isn't as complete as CMUCL's. You can easily add to it, though: http://paste.lisp.org/display/75743 08:43:03 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:43:06 fph: try prepending "sb-" 08:43:14 sb-unix ? 08:44:14 (find-package "SB-UNIX") 08:44:32 oh yes, too used to another imp 08:44:35 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:44:36 I see a pattern emerging. 08:45:54 I could be even more lazy and stick with cmucl on that laptop ;-) 08:47:29 if you use rlwrap, you could populate its completions file with (do-all-symbols ...) , and then bang on TAB 08:47:55 you can use slime and then do that. sb 08:48:22 I think I have the docs in slime still turned off, haven't found the magic yet 08:48:41 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-indentation)) 08:48:44 I get some docs, but usually only after I'm into the form 08:48:58 there is stuff in slime-fancy I don't want 08:50:30 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:50:41 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:54:14 stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 08:54:56 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-133.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 08:54:59 apropos doesn't uncover a 'make-symlink, so I guess I go the CFFI route you posted ayrnieu 08:56:25 sb-posix:symlink 08:57:50 I can't believe I've gone so long without DESCRIBE : sb-posix:symlink ? Does that *make* symlinks? (describe #'sb-posix:symlink) => The function's arguments are: (OLDPATH NEWPATH) 08:58:20 (describe 'symlink) SYMLINK is an internal symbol in #. 08:58:41 well, yeah, you interned it as of the 'symlink 08:59:45 no that was different apparently, looks like sb-posix:symlink works as desired 08:59:48 gaah, you can intern symbols in other packages like this: 'sb-posix::foobar 08:59:50 -!- b4 [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:00:57 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:19 arynieu: Well, making arity fixed is unnecessary in most cases, I think. 09:03:25 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:04:37 reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 09:06:29 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:07:08 Do I setup the misc-binary (linux) stuff for sbcl to get lisp jobs running in a crontab, or go the save-lisp-and-die route? 09:07:21 it gives you Rebol's syntax without much complexity for the programmer. I'd agree that Rebol's syntax is unnecessary -- but all syntaxes are. The one language that I've seen really break the rules and incorporate contradictory features, Mercury, also needs a static compilation step and heavy annotations to disambiguate things. 09:07:48 fph - you can use #! /path/to/sbcl --script 09:08:06 at top of file, OK I'll do that then 09:08:20 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 09:08:20 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 09:09:17 (Mercury has foo(1) and foo(1, 2) as separate functions, has foo overloaded by type, and has foo(1) that is a curried foo(1, 2)) 09:09:29 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:09:34 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:09:48 I found mercury a bit too annoying to get anywhere much with. 09:10:00 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 09:10:02 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 09:10:38 Hello 09:10:46 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 09:12:14 I kept a journal of the errors I figured out as a newbie: http://community.livejournal.com/mercury_blog/ 09:15:43 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:16:08 -!- stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:17:20 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@212.Red-88-23-57.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 09:20:44 does anyone here run a platform other than clisp/sbcl-linux? If so, do you mind running a test suite and pasting the results? 09:20:48 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 09:21:23 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 09:21:23 i have sbcl/ccl/clisp-freebsd 09:21:40 I can run a few platforms on darwin. 09:22:15 ccl would be nice. Clisp seems to be a lost cause (I think something having to do with weak pointers/weak hash tables/finalizers is broken) 09:22:28 cmucl 09:22:51 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:22:58 I have ccl on darwinx86/darwinppc/linux86/linuxppc/freebsdx86/solarisx86/win32/win64 09:23:26 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:23:44 great! The test suite only require fiveam to be downloaded. 09:24:18 http://download.github.com/sykopomp-sheeple-347432a4bee157da2b5a406c28f136d72386fcd2.zip Here's the link to the sources. asdf-loading sheeple-tests and running (sheeple-tests:sheeple-tests) should do the trick. 09:24:48 hmm, I guess I have amd64 Scieneer too 09:24:57 *H4ns* will do ccl/fbsd/32bit sbcl/fbsd/32bit 09:25:02 Speaking of fiveam, it's just about that time here...so good night. 09:25:09 ge 09:25:19 keep in mind, this won't work at all if your lisp doesn't support weak pointers, weak hash tables, and/or finalizers 09:26:37 sykopomp pasted "sheeple tests - sbcl/linux" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75771 09:26:38 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:26:51 if you run tests, please just annotate that paste 09:26:54 H4ns: thanks a bunch! 09:27:28 H4ns pasted "sheeple tests" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75772 09:27:30 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA2A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:27:48 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA3CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:27:50 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 09:27:56 oh ew 09:29:10 ecl can't compile sheeple to run the tests. 09:29:56 yeah, ecl doesn't do weak pointers. :-\ 09:30:04 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C0DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:12 H4ns annotated #75772 "sbcl/freebsd" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75772#1 09:31:01 I wonder why maphash exploded. Strange. 09:32:17 1 > :b 09:32:17 > Error: Fault during write to memory address #x3055BDE1 09:32:20 abcl doesn't support weak hash-tables either. 09:32:38 sykopomp: i guess ccl is basically broken for this test. it also cannot load sheeple from fasls 09:33:08 sykopomp: i'll give it a spin on 64 bit ccl 09:33:21 H4ns: that's unfortunate... thank you! 09:35:06 oh well, do you want SBCL/darwin? 09:35:28 ayrnieu: that would be nice, sure. 09:35:48 Maphash imposes some constraints on what you can do with the hashtable being mapped -- are you sure that you respect these? 09:36:33 Zhivago: I'm not sure what the constraints are, so I don't know. 09:36:53 Well, you might want to find out. 09:38:06 ayrnieu annotated #75771 "sheeple tests - sbcl/darwin" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75771#1 09:38:13 hmm... clhs says unspecified for adding or removing entries from the table while maphash runs... but I'm not changing entries in that table, only reading them and copying them into a new table. 09:38:20 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:38:32 ayrnieu: thanks! 09:39:14 sykopomp: i tried with ccl/freebsd/amd64 and saw the same stack overflow error 09:39:19 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e70db23.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:39:46 sykopomp: with an older ccl version, i got the tests to run completely. 09:39:56 sykopomp: (but with 10 errors, will paste) 09:40:08 H4ns: hum. That's annoying. It might be the same thing that's causing clisp to blow up. I wonder what's causing it. 09:40:12 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:40:16 great, thanks! 09:40:38 H4ns annotated #75772 "ccl 1.2/freebsd/amd64" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75772#2 09:41:30 sykopomp: i'd try to get rid of all the warnings first :) 09:42:13 I can't really help it -- those functions can't be defined until bootstrapping is over, and they're part of the definition for the 'core' functions. 09:42:43 oh wait. I think I may have forgotten to actually write those. (oops) 09:42:51 *blush* 09:43:22 ah nope. I did write those. They're just defined in a later file (post-boot) 09:43:52 declarations may help 09:44:17 anyway, there are warnings while compiling the stuff, too. 09:44:21 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:44:24 ignorable? 09:44:50 ; In ENSURE-BUZZWORD: Undeclared free variable =STANDARD-MESSAGE-METASHEEP= 09:44:51 and more of the like. please install ccl yourself if you're interested, it is free. 09:45:17 alright, I'll do that :) 09:45:54 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 09:46:41 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.66.124] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:46:48 thanks all for the tests, time to do some cleaning... 09:46:49 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.116.22.176] has joined #lisp 09:47:27 mega1 [n=mega@53d82de6.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:48:48 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 09:51:47 mcClim says environment variable DISPLAY not set in windows 09:51:56 slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:37 Traveler101: it's trying to connect to X. Try the gtk-cairo backend, or provide an X server for it to connect to with MingX. 09:55:50 runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 09:57:33 -!- runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Client Quit] 09:57:55 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:21 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-143-9.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:03:00 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:08:48 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:08 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:12:35 CCL::SOCKET-CREATION-ERROR 10:13:19 -!- runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:13:19 what does (getenv "DISPLAY") say? 10:16:22 getenv is undefined 10:17:09 runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 10:17:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/75775 10:17:37 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 10:18:44 well, I can see that it tries /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 10:18:46 ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has joined #lisp 10:19:04 are you running an X server? 10:20:05 yes Xming server is running 10:20:24 -!- Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has quit ["Denne computer faldt i søvn"] 10:21:53 OK, ccl on windows doesn't have GETENV , but you need SETENV or PUTENV to fix your DISPLAY environment variable in ccl, for clx. Maybe clx has some other way to set this. Maybe you know how to set environment variables in Windows, so that you can restart ccl with DISPLAY=:0 10:23:06 -!- fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 10:24:00 most likely, the CLX being used auto-detects that DISPLAY=:0 is being used and changes it to the +X-unix-socket-path+. That's what telent CLX does. 10:24:14 If so, try DISPLAY=hostname:0 instead of an empty hostname. 10:25:00 in the error trace i gave, there was some-thing like ":REMOTE-FILENAME "/tmp/.X11-unix/X0"" 10:25:06 will it caused the problem 10:25:19 yes, that's your DISPLAY 10:25:52 should i check this file is created or not 10:27:28 how can i tell clim to use tcp instead of shared file 10:27:56 -!- rme_ [n=rme@pool-70-104-127-205.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 10:28:36 Traveler101 - by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_variable#DOS_and_Windows , try starting cmd.exe , entering 'set DISPLAY=:0' (or localhost:0 ?) then start ccl, then try this again. 10:29:13 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:29:55 well, I tagged Sheeple v0.1. Woot \o/ 10:33:14 kiuma [n=kiuma@83.103.127.195] has joined #lisp 10:33:40 hello #lispers 10:34:15 hello, kiuma 10:35:02 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:36:14 fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:31 sbcl --userinit /etc/sbclrc --script test-it.lisp fails, it doesn't read the init file 10:37:33 is the documentation of the new hunchentoot in http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ ? 10:37:44 kiuma: yes. 10:37:55 great thanks 10:38:22 sbcl --script /etc/sbclrc works 10:38:31 but I guess I cannot chain them 10:38:32 H4ns, I hope to soon switch claw to it. Is there a change log somewhere ? 10:38:37 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 10:38:50 fph - or --script intentionally ignores the rcfile, even when passed explicitly. Let me check. 10:39:01 kiuma: there is a change log, but the api has been completely revised, so you'll need to re-read the documentation. 10:39:05 the mailing list notes seem to claim otherwise 10:39:15 ok np. 10:39:29 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.steel-bank.devel/11958 10:39:30 ayrnieu: Connection failure to X0.0 server localhost display 0: 10:39:31 fph - which version of SBCL do you have? 10:39:40 Traveler101 - :0 10:39:44 1.0.25.10 10:40:57 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:41:19 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 10:42:23 ayrnieu: i tried all combinations of env Varibables 10:42:31 fph, --script is a runtime option that should appear before --userinit , a toplevel option 10:42:45 Traveler - and you got Connection failure to X0.0 server localhost display :0 ? 10:42:52 I thought I tried that permutation 10:42:59 -!- runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:43:02 tcr1 [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:43:12 I think it still won't work, but this is what the help says. 10:43:21 sbcl --script test-it.lisp --userinit /etc/sbclrc 10:43:25 same failure 10:43:33 runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 10:44:26 _3b, lichtblau: Have you seen http://wiki.github.com/aemoncannon/las3r ? 10:44:46 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:46:34 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 10:46:46 fph - aha, --script always disables the userinit 10:47:08 (setf disable-debugger t no-userinit t no-sysinit t ...) 10:47:09 well, having to copy /etc/sbclrc into my scripts seems pretty stupid 10:47:29 you can load it directly 10:47:38 right, first line load I suppose 10:47:41 and SBCL builds in 6min on my macbook 10:48:04 tcr1: thanks for the pointer, looks nice 10:48:11 so if this is a bug, want a patch? 10:48:24 Doesn't really help me personally, because I'd need something closer to Common Lisp than Clojure, but still very cool. 10:48:41 jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 10:50:08 Right now, my thinking is that AVM2 isn't the right thing anyway. Let's give Adobe 10 years and see whether they can catch up with Sun... 10:51:03 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:51:03 ayrnieu: if that bug question is to me : putting (load "/etc/sbclrc" as the first lisp line does workaround, it would be nice to have the init ability on the command line 10:51:26 lichtblau: I've only watched a google talk about it, and I was amazed by some stuff they demoed. Of course, it was kind of a marketing demo :) 10:51:27 fph - it was. OK. 10:51:36 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 10:51:50 Oh, it's way better than the old Flash VM. But: 10:52:03 No threads. No call/cc either, yet lots of asynchronous APIs that would need it. No FFI. Apparently MUCH slower than HotSpot. No native look and feel for GUI stuff. 10:52:06 in fact, it would screw up some things if I then loaded a file with "load-rc" in it via some other method 10:52:22 I've also just found http://beelisp.com/ -- you have to click on "Supplied with examples" on the BEE Lisp Features navbar 10:54:21 <_3b> lichtblau: which compiler were you using for the slow avm2 code you were asking about? 10:54:44 <_3b> tcr1: yeah, saw las3r a while back, probably would have tried that if i saw it before i started on mine :) 10:55:15 _3b: Flex 3.something for compilation. AIR SDK 1.5 at run-time. 10:56:31 Could it be something silly like adl in the SDK being slower than the non-SDK AIR? 10:56:57 tcr1: is that... Common Lisp? 10:57:23 <_3b> lichtblau: dunno, haven't gotten much beyond microbenchmarks, and i pretty much only run on the flash debug player 11:01:49 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:02:23 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:22 sykopomp: I don't know, sounds like a commercial pendant to newlisp! 11:04:35 tcr1: it sounds terrifying, from looking through its site. 11:04:40 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.114] has quit ["I don't plan to grow old gracefully. I plan to have face-lifts until my ears meet.  Rita Rudner"] 11:04:47 ow, even a 6min compile sucks when the issue is (pop-options) when you meant (pop-option) 11:04:54 hehe 11:05:01 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.114] has joined #lisp 11:05:29 -!- tcr1 [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 11:08:52 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:58 G'day. 11:11:07 mornin spiaggia 11:13:04 -!- runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:13:33 runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 11:15:23 _sana [n=sana@79.117.18.61] has joined #lisp 11:16:44 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:18 fph - I've got something that works, but it also prints SBCL's welcome text "This is SBCL 1.0.025", etc., so I'm working on that. 11:17:43 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:17:47 I can handle that, I have a redirect in all scripts that dumps into /dev/null 11:18:02 OK, I'll post the patch 11:18:37 even if it generates email from the cronjob, procmail can eat those 11:19:16 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 11:19:33 ayrnieu pasted "respect --userinit/--sysinit in sbcl-1.0.25/src/code/toplevel.lisp for fph" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75776 11:19:42 thank you 11:20:07 you're welcome. --script just needs to come after those flags. 11:20:41 I test it, I don't think I build in 6 min tho :-) 11:27:22 -!- emacs-dwim [n=user@cpe-74-71-13-156.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:27:26 --noinform --userinit xxx --script # doesn't print the banner 11:27:38 Is there a lisp function which returns a list which contains all the elements in another list which do (or don't) satisfy a predicate? 11:28:05 ok 11:28:24 (mapcar #'remove-if 11:29:50 or maybe just remove-if 11:30:14 (remove-if-not #'evenp (loop for n upto 10 collect n)) => (0 2 4 6 8 10) 11:30:39 (remove-if (complement #'evenp) ...) => same 11:30:48 thanks 11:31:15 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 11:32:37 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:04 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 11:34:56 -!- jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:37:04 ok, patch works nicely. Thank you ayrnieu now I can survive in the back woods for awhile :-) 11:38:20 awesome :-) if development sbcl has the same behavior, this could be patch #2 for me. 11:39:20 oh, well, I also have to make runtime.c not print the banner. 11:40:03 well, I didn't get the 'no banner' with --noinform, in fact that crashed for me....probably a different CVS fetch from you I suppose 11:40:16 I'm using 1.0.25 11:40:24 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-76-254-61-64.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 11:40:38 no important, and I need to pack asap. this will do fine for now 11:43:35 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 11:43:57 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 11:45:13 -!- runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:54:16 --noinform should've worked. runtime.c sees noinform, sets the flag, sees --userinit , says "woops! this isn't for me", never prints the banner; toplevel.lisp sets userinit and then sees --script 11:54:54 on 1.0.25 , anyway. /me gets cvs 11:55:20 that was from Feb 17 fetch 11:56:08 OK 11:57:48 well, I'm behind on too much to worry about it much 12:01:04 -!- sphix [n=msphix@aarn239.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:01:34 sphix [n=msphix@aarm147.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:03:45 ooh, yeah, runtime.c is doing important things differently. 12:10:28 Bribek [n=Bribek@0x573fd50a.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.arcnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:13:28 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:15:00 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 12:15:50 hello 12:18:02 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:18:56 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 12:22:20 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 12:28:42 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 12:28:54 H4ns: ping 12:29:03 fe[nl]ix: ack 12:29:49 I see that the new hunchentoot has its docs in clixdoc format 12:30:13 how can I transform that file to html ? 12:30:27 xsltproc clixdoc.xsl index.xml 12:30:37 i think the html version should be included. 12:31:11 you can always open the index.xml file with a web browser, that will do the transformation, too. 12:31:22 it's not included 12:32:04 i'll ask edi to include it in the next release 12:32:10 ok 12:32:46 fe[nl]ix: ah, you're checking out of svn? 12:33:29 no, I downloaded http://weitz.de/files/hunchentoot.tar.gz 12:33:50 ok, the html file should be included there i'd say. i'll let edi know. 12:34:00 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 12:35:38 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:37:06 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:53 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:39:13 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:41:47 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:42:26 sohum [n=sohum@burgmann181.anu.edu.au] has joined #lisp 12:43:20 is there a (clone obj), such that (let ((test "a")) (let ((test2 (clone test))) (eq test test2))) returns nil? 12:45:06 sohum: #'identity 12:45:38 ..no, that returns true 12:46:02 auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has joined #lisp 12:46:11 sohum: no. 12:46:32 clhs copy-structure 12:46:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cp_stu.htm 12:46:33 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-176.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:46:38 (for structure objects only) 12:47:12 sulo__ [n=sulo@p57B4869F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:47:23 hurm 12:47:56 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:47:58 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:35 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 12:48:36 less practical answer: you might be able to build something on top of mw-equiv 12:50:12 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/ext/copy_obj/copy_obj.cl http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/dc91a565c2f014df 12:50:49 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:09 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:51:14 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:08 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:52:48 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:52:50 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-094-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:04 nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:57:18 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:59:16 Hun` [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:02:24 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 13:02:36 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B52C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:04:05 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:04:55 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-225.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:07:52 LostMonarch [n=roby@host136-154-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:09:36 ayrnieu pasted "the wrong solution that works: make --script respect --userinit" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75780 13:10:28 wrong because it breaks every script that uses --noinform and carefully places it with the runtime options and not with the toplevel options. 13:10:56 -!- semka [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:12:00 runtime --noinform could be deprecated but still work by setting a variable that toplevel.lisp could inspect the way it sets lose_on_corruption_p 13:12:50 maybe that is why the mailing list post on --script mentioned something about a 'tricky case' 13:13:52 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 13:16:55 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 13:17:56 -!- Traveler101 [n=traveler@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 13:18:08 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:18:37 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 13:20:26 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-72-50.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:20:47 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 13:22:45 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:23:29 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 13:23:58 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:24:13 -!- _sana [n=sana@79.117.18.61] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:26:33 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 13:29:40 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:29:43 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:29:52 ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has joined #lisp 13:30:28 maybe lose-on-corruption should be renamed to fail-fast 13:30:54 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:11 I haven't enjoyed the process of finding a good name long enough. 13:33:47 mega1: panic-when-spazzed-p? 13:34:15 -!- nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:34:39 freak-out-when-screwed-up? 13:35:09 (-: good, descriptive names 13:35:20 but are they long enough? :D 13:35:35 the-end-is-near 13:36:05 *mega1* suddenly feels the need to sleep 13:36:15 nikki93 [n=nikki@78.101.180.180] has joined #lisp 13:36:33 maybe you'll find a less corrupt one 13:39:02 when I thought I needed a function to access deprecated_noinform_p , I named it.. deprecated_noinform_p_p Fortunately, it is unnecessary. 13:40:53 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 13:41:17 nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-223-182-13.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:21 G'morning all. 13:41:35 hello nyef 13:43:40 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:46:19 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 13:46:20 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-143-9.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:48:05 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:48:34 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 13:48:46 tcr1 [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:52:16 hello 13:53:32 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:54:04 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:22 ayrnieu: a variable to track the necessity of the function could be needs_deprecated_noinform_p_p_p 13:56:37 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1F975.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:48 segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1F87F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:01 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:17 Ugh. I don't see a way to control the connect timeout on a socket in linux with just socket options. :-/ 13:57:52 nyef: what's the problem ? 13:57:53 hmmm... the problem is chronic health care 13:58:30 trebor_dki pasted "consing / inefficiency?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75782 13:58:35 fe[nl]ix: There's behavior defined for attempting to connect with an O_NONBLOCK socket, but I haven't found an option to control the timeout. 13:58:37 ok, whose is i-bot? 13:58:55 eliza's 13:59:02 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:59:14 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xof 13:59:37 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 14:00:07 fe[nl]ix: So I have to assume that the only real workaround is to use an external timing source, which I wished to avoid. 14:00:07 i fear that accumulate-agglos in paste http://paste.lisp.org/display/75782 isn't a very good solution to the problem (which is very simple). it is a short function, maybe somebody can give me a hint, how to do better. 14:00:08 nyef: SO_RCVTIMEO/SO_SNDTIMEO work only with blocking sockets 14:00:27 fe[nl]ix: And they don't work on connect, which is the actual case I'm interested in at this point. 14:00:38 nyef: that's correct 14:01:19 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:23 nyef: just copy this: http://repo.or.cz/w/iolib.git?a=blob;f=src/sockets/socket-methods.lisp;hb=HEAD#l323 14:01:25 it's pretty easy 14:02:43 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 14:03:09 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:03:42 What on earth...? 14:04:24 Xof: I believe i-bot belongs to madnificent 14:05:00 i-bot: who owns you? 14:05:00 wish i knew, sykopomp 14:05:03 hm 14:05:15 fe[nl]ix: It's interesting, but it doesn't do what I'm looking for. 14:05:27 nyef: which is ? 14:05:55 fe[nl]ix: You remember we were discussing CPS a week ago? 14:06:04 more or less 14:06:53 -!- Xof has set mode +b *!*n=i-bot@71.175.42.* 14:06:57 I basically want to say "call this function when the socket is connected -or- the timeout expired", and then return, not wait around for the timeout. 14:07:11 madnificent: if it is true that i-bot is yours, please turn off the annoying unprompted eliza crap 14:07:21 the funtion works fine up to 100,000 particle-ids and 10,000 contact pairs, but at 1,000,000 ids and 100,000 contact-pairs calculation-time goes to infinity ... 14:07:31 if it's not yours, then whoever it is please do so 14:07:40 -!- sepisultrum [n=enigma@ks35219.kimsufi.com] has left #lisp 14:07:40 -!- flazz [n=franco@qubes.org] has left #lisp 14:07:41 flazz [n=franco@qubes.org] has joined #lisp 14:08:59 nyef: ok 14:10:01 Still, this might help later on, so thanks. 14:10:04 Xof: no, I don't support the idea of setting one up myself. I'm only supporting it under some conditions (which aren't met here) :) 14:10:25 nyef: can't you adapt some code from psi ? 14:10:57 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-11.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 14:11:00 I don't know, haven't seriously looked at the core of psi yet. 14:11:10 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:12:52 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:13:17 -!- i-bot [n=i-bot@71.175.42.169] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:14:13 trebor_dki - even with your docstring, I don't understand what accumulate-agglos is supposed to do. Also, (accumulate-agglos '((1 2) (3 4) (5 6) (7 8) (8 1) (4 5))) => ((1 2 7 8) (4 3 5 6)) , not ((1 2 7 8) (3 4 5 6)) 14:16:00 ayrnieu: the order is not important. 14:16:28 ayrnieu: given is a list of objects which do have contact 14:16:37 what does 'contact' mean? 14:16:49 ayrnieu: they do touch each other. 14:17:31 on a line? on a plane? Are (1 2) (3 4) paired with each other? 14:17:41 ayrnieu: that there is a connected path given eql elements 14:17:54 ayrnieu: in space. 14:18:39 Xof, sykopomp: dto , sabbets or Hun` would be my guess (didn't read the conversation though) 14:18:52 ayrnieu: if there is contact between 1 and 2, as well as 2 and 3 - i would like to generate a list 1 2 3. 14:19:20 so why do you generate (1 2 7 8) instead? 14:19:51 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:01 ayrnieu: because of the elements (1 2) (7 8) (8 1) 14:20:18 madnificent: huh? i tried rereading the last lines to find what you're refering to. what do you want? :) 14:20:30 ayrnieu: it's describing a graph 14:21:20 ayrnieu: first (1 2) x (8 1) -> (1 2 8), then (1 2 8) x (7 8) -> (1 2 7 8) 14:21:30 Hun`: I was referring to the possible owner of i-bot 14:21:34 not me 14:21:50 ayrnieu: the order of object-ids is not important. 14:22:50 oh, OK. 14:22:54 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:23:48 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 14:24:42 stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:24:50 i am aware that this may be a simple problem, but i do not get a good solution (1,000,000 ids and 100,000 contact-pair-informations take way to long). 14:25:30 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-181.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:25:57 (900 seconds on this machine) 14:27:26 benny [n=benny@i577A05C9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:54 i hope, that my code can somehow be understood. 14:29:41 -!- tcr1 [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 14:31:35 wonderin [n=workflow@77-56-181-114.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:34:26 ambient [n=tommi@julma.lnet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:34:39 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:34:57 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 14:45:30 -!- fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 14:46:57 ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 14:47:10 AWizzArd [n=the@splendidlord.com] has joined #lisp 14:47:22 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:47:31 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:49:05 -!- Hun` [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:49:55 <_death> hmm, new hunchentoot won't stop ze acceptor (with o-t-p-c-taskmaster) until a request comes in 14:51:46 "Doing even simple things in SOAP is often difficult because of SOAP's complexity." -- Waitasec, wasn't it -Simple- Object Access Protocol? 14:52:20 _death: what usocket version do you use? 14:52:42 <_death> nyef: yes, hence they should've used "Simpler" rather than "Simple" in their SSOAP :) 14:52:44 _death: i think that this is a bug in usocket trunk. i've been hit by that, too. 14:52:57 Simpler than -what-, though? 14:53:03 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:53:05 <_death> nyef: than SOAP 14:53:07 (CORBA, right?) 14:53:09 i think it was meant as an alternative to corba 14:53:11 yeah 14:53:31 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 14:53:33 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [] 14:53:53 thoolihan [n=thooliha@32.147.221.49] has joined #lisp 14:54:00 <_death> nyef: (I'm talking about Franz's code, they called it "SSOAP") 14:54:16 Bah. 14:54:20 _death: what usocket version? 14:54:35 -!- thoolihan [n=thooliha@32.147.221.49] has quit [Client Quit] 14:54:38 I'm more concerned with the protocol itself. What a -nightmare-. 14:56:07 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:57:25 <_death> H4ns: I just svn-updated usocket, but it still happens 14:57:35 _death: from where? 14:57:39 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-165-178.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 14:57:52 Hmmm. Using latest sbcl, needed a better version of slime. Got that, but now i get no Compiler Notes or source file error marks. Tried doing an emacs config, to set slime-complete-notes-tree as the after-compile hook, but says the symbol is void. 14:58:03 <_death> svn://common-lisp.net/project/usocket/svn/usocket/trunk 14:58:09 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 14:58:14 _death: i think that this is a bug in usocket trunk. i've been hit by that, too. 14:58:21 ambient_ [n=tommi@julma.lnet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:58:21 Anyone using the very latest? 14:58:26 _death: try usocket release 0.4.1 14:58:39 -!- ambient [n=tommi@julma.lnet.fi] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:58:43 -!- ambient_ is now known as ambien 14:58:45 _death: or fix usocket, i'd appreciate it. 14:58:46 -!- ambien is now known as ambient 14:59:24 Ah--i do get source annotations for errors, but no tree in compiler notes. 15:00:36 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@195.230.105.2] has joined #lisp 15:02:23 <_death> H4ns: well I don't see changes that may be relevant since 0.4.1 here http://common-lisp.net/websvn/log.php?repname=usocket&path=%2Fusocket%2F&rev=0&sc=0&isdir=1 15:02:44 <_death> so lemme try 0.4.1 15:03:08 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:03:59 willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:04:17 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:07:31 -!- AWizzArd [n=the@splendidlord.com] has left #lisp 15:07:45 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:08:06 When you change your sbcl version it whines about all fasl of packages that were not compiled with that version, and you must tell it to recompile them one by one, is there a better way ? 15:08:18 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:08:26 auclairb: find [srcdir] -name '*.fasl' | xargs rm 15:08:36 auclairb: or (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :the-system :force t) 15:08:42 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.231.175] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Automatic-Recompilation-of-Stale-Fasls.html 15:10:27 H4ns, stassats: thank you 15:10:40 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:00 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:19 -!- stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:16:08 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-156-238.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:16:15 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 15:17:44 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 15:23:07 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit ["Am I missing an eyebrow?"] 15:23:21 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:23:34 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 15:23:42 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA2A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:26:10 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:28:07 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.152] has joined #lisp 15:31:46 <_death> H4ns: yikes.. looks like several bugs (both in code and docs) in usocket's wait-for-input, and possibly more in hunchentoot's accept-connections 15:32:16 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:32:18 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:28 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 15:34:52 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:35:59 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:37 -!- avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:38:05 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:44:08 antgreen1 [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:28 -!- wonderin [n=workflow@77-56-181-114.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 15:45:45 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-72-50.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:47:58 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 15:48:35 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:52:47 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:52:49 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:53:07 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:53:10 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 15:53:33 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 15:57:02 antoni [n=user@30.pool85-53-30.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 15:57:50 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:21 appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:58:52 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-156-238.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:59:32 postamar_ [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-181.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:59:41 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.152] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:02:26 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C0DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! You will assist us!"] 16:04:36 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:04:46 Greetings! 16:04:46 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:57 <_death> hmm, common-lisp.net down? 16:08:01 Hello tmh. 16:08:19 _death: Lisppaste is up, so it can't be all down. 16:08:57 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has quit [] 16:09:13 Looks like it's basically working. 16:09:17 nyef: Hey, I finished downloading all of the OpenGenera stuff last night. I took a quick look and the binaries for running it on linux are compiled for an old linux kernel, 2.4.x or something. 16:09:22 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C0DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:01 <_death> nyef: strange, not here 16:10:02 tmh: Fortunately, Linux maintains excellent backwards compatability... And failing that, old versions are still available for running under virtualization. 16:10:23 -!- addled [n=addled@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 16:11:20 Yeah, that's what I was hoping, but I haven't tried anything yet. FreeBSD relies on compatibility libraries for older stuff. LispWorks on FreeBSD requires them. I figured it should be able to run somehow. 16:11:25 _death: I can even ssh in. Load average is 0.05, 0.15, 0.28. 16:11:40 ...somehow on Linux. 16:12:08 Yeah, you might need an older libc or something. But the kernel interfaces are impressively stable. 16:12:41 <_death> nyef: yes, it works now 16:14:04 The frustrating thing is that I have an Alpha PC164 sitting in the basement, but it won't run Tru64 because the SRM console is too old and DEC-Compaq-HP never released a new enough version for that machine. 16:14:10 TDT [n=TDT@113.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:41 If I had that working, I would gladly set it up as a dedicated OpenGenera machine. 16:14:53 tmh: Maybe an alpha emulator could be of use? 16:14:59 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-11.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 16:15:11 -!- sphix [n=msphix@aarm147.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:17 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 16:15:27 sphix [n=msphix@aaox218.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:15:29 Maybe, I haven't looked. Although... Hmm, now you have me thinking of all kinds of ways to waste time. 16:15:47 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-181.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:54 Heh. Like I haven't been thinking of ways to waste time myself. 16:17:13 "To be able to check that changes made to this code work properly, I should test it on an alpha, on x86 and x86-64, and on one of {sparc,ppc,mips}. I don't have a sparc, ppc, mips, or alpha system, but I know there are emulators out there for some of them..." 16:18:14 adeht pasted "hunchentoot/usocket patches" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75792 16:18:54 Which led me to the idea of writing an Alpha emulator in SBCL... so that I could run SBCL in it. 16:19:00 <_death> H4ns: check out these patches 16:20:11 Well, I just purchased a new workstation to support my consulting activities. It has 8 cores and RHEL5.3 with Xen. I'm always thinking of reasons to install virtual machines that I don't need. 16:20:44 I just want to be able to run -everything- on one system that I can take with me. 16:21:41 Ah, I gave up on using my laptop for that stuff. It's a thinkpad X61, very small and when I run or compile stuff, it has been known to overheat and shutdown. 16:22:05 Run or compile things that take hours, that is. 16:22:22 <_death> minion: memo for H4ns: check out these patches: http://paste.lisp.org/display/75792 16:22:22 Remembered. I'll tell H4ns when he/she/it next speaks. 16:22:30 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:22:40 Yeah, I used to have thermal problems compiling SBCL on some system, but I forget the circumstances. 16:22:55 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:23:23 It's just... I want to be able to take it all with me easily, and that means a single laptop possibly with an external drive or two. 16:23:34 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 16:23:35 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 16:24:51 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:26:35 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:26:40 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:57 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.156.158] has joined #lisp 16:29:34 I forgot how sbcl-bugs is supposed to be used. 16:30:13 is sending bug reports there directly ok? 16:30:35 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.114] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:30:40 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 16:30:57 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:31:28 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 16:31:31 mega1: I think it was suppose to be a list for launchpad to send notification emails 16:31:31 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:31:34 but I'm not sure 16:31:47 that direction works fine 16:33:10 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 16:33:18 I wonder what to do with some mail that was sent there by a bug reporter. 16:34:40 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:36:16 -!- antgreen1 [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 16:40:32 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 16:41:51 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:26 toddoon_ [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:31 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 16:47:04 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:49 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:48:36 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:49:09 -!- whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:49:36 hoerup [n=hoerup@62.61.134.78.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:50:54 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:51:34 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:51:57 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 16:52:31 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:54:21 antoni` [n=user@30.pool85-53-30.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 16:54:37 -!- antoni [n=user@30.pool85-53-30.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:55:17 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:19 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 16:58:53 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 17:01:26 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:03:13 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:33 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d82de6.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:04:38 -!- toddoon_ [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:06:31 Why waste time when you can waste time AND money. -> http://www.asl.dsl.pipex.com/symbolics/ 17:07:40 -!- antoni` [n=user@30.pool85-53-30.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:08:47 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:09:01 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:45 tmh: in fairness, he says he may give them away for free 17:10:52 (those 3600s are bloody huge) 17:11:51 rsynnott: I'm not criticizing him, I'm being sarcastic about myself. I started out downloading the snap4 VLM and OpenGenera, wasting time. Now, I'm thinking about actually purchasing hardware, wasting time and money. 17:12:30 ah 17:12:43 I'm a little puzzled as to how he has so much Symbolics equipment 17:12:48 maybe he worked for them, I suppose 17:12:55 elurin [n=user@85.106.150.22] has joined #lisp 17:13:05 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:13:30 toddoon_ [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:47 i have 2 3650 17:13:55 to give away for free 17:13:55 :} 17:14:23 There is a page that explains that. Basically, he was tired of sending so much money to symbolics UK, so he started purchasing used hardware and now wants to unload some of it. 17:14:27 "Like everyone outside the US, I was grossly overcharged by Symbolics UK (some $40,000 per annum in maintenance charges alone)" - bloody hell 17:14:30 ah 17:15:33 What I would much rather have is the VLM, actively maintained. 17:15:56 "I don't want to get into an argument about which Lisp implementation is superior, but suffice it to say that if you are a Genera user you will annoy the hell out of some of Franz senior management." - heh 17:17:06 Considering that Brad Parker has practically done the work for Symbolics, there is no excuse for not polishing up the port for linux. 17:17:21 ah, the keyboards are... impressive 17:18:01 http://www.asl.dsl.pipex.com/symbolics/photos/3600/0802-IO-wirewrap-cls.html - wow 17:20:06 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:21:27 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:22:05 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:22:06 runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 17:22:43 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.156.158] has joined #lisp 17:23:32 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.156.158] has quit [" I lent it to quit at the parent directory for a particular odious application i know."] 17:24:36 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb55cf.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 17:25:30 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@83.103.127.195] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:28:42 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 17:29:04 _death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 17:29:34 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:30:36 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:31:24 -!- postamar_ [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-181.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 17:31:27 lboard [n=lboard@117.193.194.46] has joined #lisp 17:31:38 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-181.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:35:15 -!- Bribek [n=Bribek@0x573fd50a.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.arcnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [] 17:37:43 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 17:37:54 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:38:38 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:40:47 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:41:22 -!- slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41:37 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:46:27 any cl-ppcre wizards around? 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I started out downloading the snap4 VLM and OpenGenera, wasting time. Now, I'm thinking about actually purchasing hardware, wasting time and money. 17:57:55 mwahahaha! 17:58:02 i believe this is partly my fault 17:58:15 slash_: ask your question, maybe someone can answer it 17:58:36 -!- acieroid [n=quentin@9.250.98-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:58:48 ehird: Yeah, thanks. ;-) 17:58:51 i'm having trouble using a regex-string with regex-replace 17:59:02 i must say, I am tempted myself. 17:59:03 dfox [n=dfox@rb5cm232.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 17:59:12 But I doubt it's the best way to waste money... 17:59:27 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:48 and i cannot explain way 17:59:50 why* 17:59:59 the string seems correct to me 18:00:02 Agreed. All I really want is to play around with OpenGenera and get an idea of what made the interface so great. It's hard to appreciate it based on youtube videos and write-ups. 18:00:21 post your code and describe your expectations and what it actually does 18:00:22 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:00:27 lisppaste: url? 18:00:27 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 18:00:34 tmh: I'd probably just set it up as a webserver displaying a picture of the representation of a cons cell or something silly like that. 18:00:35 yeah i'm about to do that 18:00:38 And bash out like 3 programs on it. 18:00:38 slash_: This one's fairly high up there on the "easy mistakes" list, but... Did you escape your backslashes properly? 18:00:43 Then it would sit there. 18:01:11 ehird: That's why I should probably just get snap4 running and leave it at that. 18:01:52 Doesn't mean it isn't tempting, ofc... I'm still fond of the "#lisp collectively buys out symbolics" notion :-) 18:02:14 ehird: Might be easier to get the rights for interlisp from giggles the magical clown, tbh. 18:02:34 nyef: i guess so 18:02:37 the problem is 18:02:51 When did Giggles start programming in Lisp? 18:02:54 nyef: I eat giggles the magic clown for breakfast. 18:02:58 i have a something like: [() | () |() ] 18:03:25 if i add another ([]) into the outer [] 18:03:41 i get an error from cl-ppcre 18:03:52 http://paste.lisp.org/display/75802 18:04:01 the regex-string which works looks like that 18:04:14 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit ["scotch"] 18:04:36 acieroid [n=quentin@159.21.83-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:44 that's a bad regexp 18:04:54 do you know what [] means? 18:05:07 yeah 18:05:37 match the stuff within [] 18:05:41 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:05:56 match characters within [] 18:06:08 so [ab] is the same as [ba] 18:06:39 but if i group them with () 18:06:52 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:06:56 you don't group them inside [ 18:07:01 read man perlre 18:07:12 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 18:07:22 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:31 -!- ambient [n=tommi@julma.lnet.fi] has left #lisp 18:08:02 ok 18:09:14 'Anything else is unsafe' :S 18:09:46 that's for ranges 18:10:15 ahh ok 18:10:51 so, if i understand your regexp, you can just remove all [] but first two 18:11:09 i'm about to do that :D 18:11:22 i can go for (...|....|...)? 18:12:10 yes 18:12:38 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:15 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 18:14:46 and you have " *" which is 0 or more, but that code won't make sense with no spaces, and you will miss tabs, so "\s+" is better 18:15:21 ahh yes 18:15:24 thank you 18:16:57 guille_ [n=guille_@4.Red-81-37-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:10 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:17:26 Has anyone swapped ( and ) with [ and ] in emacs lisp mode so that you don't have to chord with the shift key? 18:17:38 -!- toddoon_ [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:18:21 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-240-176-62.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:43 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:54 *stassats* thought about swapping it globally, but it will interfere with my russian layout 18:18:55 I just found a Common Lisp implementation written in ANSI C: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/devel/lang/lisp/glisp/ Particular tidbits: I don't know how complete it is, but pretty much everything seems to be implemented in C, including CLOS. All comments are in italian! 18:19:31 tmh: i'm using vim here 18:20:29 tcr1: er, Clisp? 18:20:37 tmh: I swapped them globally on my system at one point 18:20:47 ehird: clisp had comments in german 18:20:56 tmh: since () is more common than [] 18:20:58 but I'm too lazy now 18:21:00 stassats: heh :-) 18:21:04 ehird: Did you run into any show stopping problems with that? 18:21:26 tmh: No, I'm on OS X so I used: http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/14495 18:21:47 I opened US extended, swapped [] and (), saved it, copied it to the right place, and selected it in sys. prefs. 18:21:50 -!- runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:21:52 worked absolutely fine 18:22:19 Okay, I just want to do it in emacs for starters. I'm on linux, so I'll worry about system wide later. 18:22:20 only neurons in your head should adapt to that change 18:22:27 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:22:33 runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 18:22:40 It was easier system wide than emacs-only 18:22:49 esp. since the inconsistency would take some getting used to 18:23:04 Hmmm, guess so. 18:25:00 mcclim failed to run on windows 18:25:38 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-fd933f851d154b99] has joined #lisp 18:25:41 lboard: Do you have an X server running and the CLX package? On what implementation? 18:26:22 yes, ccl 18:26:52 Xming is running 18:27:03 tmh, you could also consider just remapping M-( and M-) and leaving () as is 18:27:19 azuk`: erm 18:27:24 that's meta-shift-9 18:27:29 hardly quicker than [ 18:27:35 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:53 which is why I suggested remapping them 18:28:12 i don't follow 18:28:24 lboard: have you tested CLX at all? What I'm suggesting is verify that all of the requirements are operating. 18:29:10 tmh: i'll get back to u 18:29:28 Thanks for the Xming reference, though. I wasn't aware of that. 18:31:15 ebird, I meant to suggest that don't fiddle with standard ( and ) keys, but remap functionality of M-( and M-) to some convenient keys/key sequences 18:31:41 he's trying to remap [ to ( 18:31:44 and vise-versa 18:32:27 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:33:52 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:35:02 ehird; that's an amazing idea btw 18:35:09 ebird, yes he is, but given that we're on #lisp so presumably he wants to do it to make writing Lisp easier, I suggested he might want to consider not swapping [ <-> ( because you don't need () for Lisp coding, but instead just map M-( M-) (and whatever you want to use in addition) instead 18:35:20 comex: huh? 18:35:26 azuk`: that's an h, not a b, fyi 18:35:29 hird: get in ##-+-+--+ 18:35:40 ^ I was banging my keyboard to get stuff out of it 18:35:42 (I need a new one) 18:35:50 ##nomic 18:36:00 ehird, sorry, bad font :) 18:36:14 azuk`: but I use ( ) much more than M-( and am sick of chording with shift. 18:36:35 ( and M-( have different meaning in paredit 18:36:51 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.156.158] has joined #lisp 18:37:05 Yeah, I'm also using paredit. 18:37:56 -!- dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:38:08 lispm [n=joswig@e177151068.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:21 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:38:39 -!- vostibackle [n=vosti@cpe-24-28-81-28.austin.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:41:07 knobo [n=user@148.122.202.247] has joined #lisp 18:41:35 Is it possible to have an &optional &body in a defmacro? 18:42:04 it's already optional. 18:42:06 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:37 Wait, what? 18:42:53 If an &body argument is in a defmacro parameter list, is it not always bound? 18:43:14 pkhuong: with a default value? (defmacro foo (&body (body t))) 18:43:45 Just check if body is the empty list. 18:44:07 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.156.158] has quit ["We conquer more planets before 9AM than most people do all day"] 18:44:32 pkhuong: that does not help. 18:45:01 knobo: Since &body arguments are always bound, it does not make sense to have them defaulted in the arglist. 18:45:33 nyef: &optionals are always bound too 18:45:50 stassats: not in the calling form. 18:46:17 optionals are always -defaulted- if not supplied. bodys are always supplied. 18:48:21 Gaaah! I'm finding errors in every example of the book I'm sourcing for my unit testing. The level of sloppiness is ridiculous. This guy wrote the book and then probably had a bunch of poor grad students generate the examples with little proofing. Lazy b@st@rd. 18:48:23 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:51 The idea is something like this: (defmacro authorise ((o class) &body (body t)) `(defmethod authorize-objec ((,o ,class)) ,@body)) 18:49:15 you don't want to splice an atom in. 18:49:17 So if I do (authorize (foo bar)) then it defaults to t. 18:49:28 Just check if the body is the empty list. If it is, then default to '(t). 18:49:47 ,@(or body '(t)) 18:50:08 (authorize (foo bar) nil) should not....! 18:50:27 Nor would it, as body would then be (nil), not nil. 18:50:29 knobo: think. 18:50:48 aha.. thinking... thats new to me... 18:50:51 haha 18:51:05 it's to late for me 18:51:11 (authorize (foo bar)) would have a body of nil. 18:51:13 antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has joined #lisp 18:51:36 I get it. 18:52:10 -!- runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:52:20 runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 18:53:15 milanj [n=milan@cable-89-216-113-6.static.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 18:54:40 Thanx ppl 18:55:32 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [No route to host] 18:58:30 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:37 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:01:04 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 19:02:40 -!- hoerup [n=hoerup@62.61.134.78.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk] has left #lisp 19:02:55 mikezor [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:03:03 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:06:13 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 19:06:32 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.156.158] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:06:42 [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.26] has joined #lisp 19:10:14 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:16:05 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:27 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C7BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:47 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.116.22.176] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:20:55 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.55.17] has joined #lisp 19:22:43 -!- runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:22:52 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 19:29:05 -!- dont [n=dont@94.27.113.139] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:30:55 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-34-140.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:32:38 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.26] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:33:28 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:35:47 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-39-218.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:03 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-76-254-61-64.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:23 dont [n=dont@94.27.114.9] has joined #lisp 19:41:39 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:15 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:46 -!- milanj [n=milan@cable-89-216-113-6.static.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:44:18 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:44:29 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslc-082-082-059-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:24 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@195.230.105.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:47:16 [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.181] has joined #lisp 19:48:32 thoolihan [n=thooliha@32.149.246.249] has joined #lisp 19:49:03 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:34 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [] 19:50:58 milanj [n=milan@cable-89-216-113-6.static.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:51:03 Maddas [n=Maddas@tardis-b23.ee.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 19:51:42 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:51:50 lisppaste: seen chandler 19:53:11 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-56.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 19:55:04 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.134.122] has joined #lisp 19:55:04 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 20:02:26 jao` [n=jao@25.Red-81-32-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:32 runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 20:03:14 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:09:40 almagus [n=alex@93.186.212.118] has joined #lisp 20:10:05 -!- thoolihan [n=thooliha@32.149.246.249] has quit ["Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info/"] 20:10:18 -!- jao` is now known as jao 20:12:34 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:24 thoolihan [n=thooliha@32.146.218.121] has joined #lisp 20:17:18 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 20:20:24 -!- thoolihan [n=thooliha@32.146.218.121] has quit ["Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info/"] 20:21:06 -!- almagus [n=alex@93.186.212.118] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:21:16 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-133.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:25:54 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:26:12 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:27:18 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:17 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 20:31:22 -!- ehird is now known as ehird|away 20:32:01 -!- iaindalton [n=user@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has left #lisp 20:33:06 *tcr1* wishes T wasn't a constant, but merely a symbol-macro evaluating to a constant 20:33:52 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:23 and why? 20:35:43 It could be used as a parameter name? 20:38:11 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:38:13 schoppen1auer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:38:21 -!- schoppen1auer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:38:22 how can i use parameter named 't' and t simultaneously? 20:40:37 stassats: you can 20:40:45 t, it's a constant defined in CL 20:41:49 you can shadow it :) and then write cl:t every time you want the truth value 20:41:55 oh, you mean if T was a ``lexical global'', but not a constant? When was the last time you explicitly used T? Apart from default cases in COND... 20:42:42 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:42:49 -!- knobo [n=user@148.122.202.247] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:43:11 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:44 Muzzleflash [n=Muzzlefl@d40a2415.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:43:48 -!- Muzzleflash [n=Muzzlefl@d40a2415.rev.stofanet.dk] has left #lisp 20:43:54 pkhuong: quite often as argument to some optional or key parameters 20:46:06 You'd use +the-ultimate-truh+, which, coincidentally, would be bound to 42. 20:46:45 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:50 -!- runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:47:10 runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 20:47:25 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:44 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 20:51:53 dlowe: Shadowing it, creating a symbol-macro expanding to cl:t, sounds acceptable, except for the confusion it would cause the casual reader 20:52:54 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:53:07 tcr1: I believe that's know as securing your job. ;-) 20:53:17 tmh: He's already using Common Lisp :-) 20:53:31 Touche 20:53:37 *Maddas* touches tmh gently 20:53:44 *tmh* cringes 20:53:54 Personal space please. 20:54:08 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit ["leaving"] 20:54:14 *Maddas* slowly retracts his finger 20:54:18 wouldn't using T as a parameter name be equally confusing? 20:54:39 That's the confusion I was referring to 20:54:45 k 20:56:03 hm, wait .. why do you wish to do this then? .. heh 20:56:14 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 20:56:38 josemanuel [n=josemanu@214.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:56:46 -!- jao [n=jao@25.Red-81-32-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Server buffer killed"] 20:57:40 jao [n=jao@25.Red-81-32-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:40 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:59:06 If T was a symbol-macro thus defined, it would not be confusing to a casual reader 21:00:12 I dunno, the first thing I'd ask if I saw (define-symbol-macro t ...) is WTF? 21:01:15 I mean if that was what the standard specifies 21:01:46 Okay, yeah, if it were in the standard, we'd get used to it pretty quickly. 21:01:53 -!- dont [n=dont@94.27.114.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:02:22 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:02:50 shadowing t and defining such a symbol-macro would be quite fragile 21:03:09 there are macros which test for something being EQ to CL:T 21:03:34 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:36 how often do you want to name your parameters "t"? 21:05:02 i'd say that it's not a very good nameb 21:05:45 Depends on the domain 21:06:37 dont [n=dont@94.27.113.143] has joined #lisp 21:07:52 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 21:11:25 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:12:58 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:13:12 (defun evolve-differential-equation (f t0 x0 t x) ...) 21:16:45 -!- runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:17:16 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:37 runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 21:18:28 fjs_ [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-39-218.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 21:19:12 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:19:28 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-39-218.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:19:40 -!- fjs_ is now known as fjs 21:27:00 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:27:02 -!- guille_ [n=guille_@4.Red-81-37-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:27:24 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:50 mjf [n=mjf@r6y225.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 21:37:04 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:31 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:38:47 GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.186.252] has joined #lisp 21:38:55 is there any obvious mistake here? http://paste.lisp.org/display/75816 21:39:09 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:39:38 except for it being so ugly 21:41:26 I think the names remove, and peek are unfortune 21:41:56 gueux [n=g@DU90.N46.QueensU.CA] has joined #lisp 21:42:08 hi :-) 21:42:17 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:18 they're not mine :) 21:42:56 but I was asking for things worse than that.. like reasons for the code to loop indefinitely, or.. 21:43:03 I'd like to do a "(mapcar (cons 1) mylist_of_list)" 21:43:26 but I can't find the correct syntax for the "(cons 1)" part 21:43:41 (mapcar (lambda (x) (cons 1 x)) mylist_of_list) 21:43:50 ok 21:44:01 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:04 it's not possible to do that with a ' 21:44:10 or something like that? 21:44:16 there is no partial application in common lisp 21:44:28 arg 21:44:29 ok 21:44:31 or partial evaluation, i forget the difference 21:44:54 you can easily write a function that does partial application, though. 21:44:55 H4ns, memo from _death: check out these patches: http://paste.lisp.org/display/75792 21:45:18 it is commonly, wrongly, called "curry" and usually has a buddy "rcurry" 21:45:28 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:46:30 tommylommykins [n=tommylom@5ad471ca.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:52 (curry ...) doesn't look much better than (lambda (x) ...) 21:46:59 gueux - you can curry if you really want to, but that's a 'feature' that is only really acceptable when the language has other design decisions that CL doesn't make. In a CL a terse syntax for lambda would make more sense. 21:47:12 runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 21:47:17 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:34 I usually call it papply 21:47:42 -!- runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:02 ok 21:48:04 The (papply 'string= "foo") form is kind of useful 21:48:50 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:53 i use it a lot and think it is very useful. 21:48:55 I think curry in alexandria does exactly this... isn't it ? 21:49:02 lemoinem: right. 21:49:13 "but it is not currying!!!1" 21:49:42 :P indeed... 21:49:43 Reading this discussion is making me hungry. 21:50:09 mmmm curry lamb. 21:50:21 miam 21:50:34 *nyef* is still vegetarian, so skip the lamb. 21:50:43 nyef: :P 21:51:19 marathon hacking is bad for your health, mmmkay 21:51:30 *fusss* been bed-ridden for the last 3 days 21:52:22 -!- maio [n=maio@217.196.213.98] has left #lisp 21:53:22 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:33 -!- nikki93 [n=nikki@78.101.180.180] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:54:09 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:55:44 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:56:04 wikipedia states that explicit currying is still currying 21:57:01 now, if wikipedia states that, i'm happy! 21:57:16 why is lisp so.. quirky? :/ 21:57:17 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:21 (Is explicit currying a form of cooking in the nude?) 21:57:33 GrayShade: different evolutionary line from pretty much everything else 21:57:46 I tried to use the debugger in Allegro CL. 21:57:48 rcurry = red curry? I personally prefer ycurry, in that case. 21:57:58 :( 21:58:16 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:58:25 dlowe: it seems to have 'seeded' itself into others' evolution, though. 21:58:30 here's my partial application macro: http://paste.lisp.org/display/75819 21:58:33 and somehow I doubt it's very different from debuggers in other lisp implementation 21:58:35 and there was that one crazy weekend with smalltalk it had 21:58:36 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-139-183.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:59:07 GrayShade: please try slime. if you still don't like lisp debugging, maybe lisp is not for you and you should use something else. 21:59:35 like Java. I hear good things about that language. 21:59:47 it also has fancy colorful debuggers, i hear. 22:00:09 it doesn't help you to have a great tool if you've no idea how people use it. But Slime has screencasts. 22:00:15 with buttons and popup menus! 22:00:26 and eclipse... or so i heard 22:00:26 is it wrong to think it's strange for breakpoints to trigger when you paste a function definition into the repl? 22:00:48 I really like Slime's (or rather SBCL's) ability to jump to the offending _expression_ of an error rather than just the line 22:00:50 also, your applications are guaranteed to be bug-free due to this newfangled thing called static typing. 22:01:18 GrayShade: It depends. 22:01:22 GrayShade - doesn't happen to me. 22:01:36 it just did, but not in slime :) 22:01:48 tcr1: the slime debugger is amazing. Opening up the offending call, inspecting the arguments, etc... <3 <3 <3 22:02:46 sykopomp: growing up with languages like java I've come to take those things for granted in an IDE 22:02:56 GrayShade: I recommend to spend half an hour, or perhaps an hour, to read the documentation of Allegro's IDE, and its debugger. 22:03:02 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:10 wait, what, there's a swank for Ruby? 22:04:42 weirdo: slime is the most copied cl project, imo 22:04:42 tcr1: I'll try, but it sure "feels" quirky :) 22:05:01 but it's in slime/contrib 22:05:21 weirdo: no, it isn't usable 22:06:05 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit [] 22:06:59 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:07:10 tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has joined #lisp 22:08:06 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:08:21 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:11:16 I'd like to pretty print a list of list (pretty-print '((1 1) (3 2))) would give 1 1\n 3 2 22:11:41 print goes to a new line at each time... 22:12:20 is there a printf or something like that? 22:12:32 gueux: something in the lines of (format t "~{~{~a ~}~%~}" '((1 1) (3 2))) 22:12:46 if you're not bothered by the extra spaces 22:12:50 that can be solved, too 22:12:59 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:31 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:13:40 gueux: (format t "~{~{~a~^ ~}~%~}" '((1 1) (3 2))) 22:14:34 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.134.122] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:15:16 why doesn't autodoc show the current keyword argument anymore? 22:15:31 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:15:53 can anyone explain to my why in this example (from ANSI Common Lisp) the function list-of only get's called with one argument? http://paste.lisp.org/display/75820 22:16:23 GrayShade: thanks :-) 22:16:25 you mean APPLY? 22:16:26 -!- runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:16:31 weirdo: yes 22:16:41 poet, apply takes a list as a last argument 22:16:57 so (apply fn ... '(1 2 3)) === (funcall fn ... 1 2 3) 22:17:03 runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 22:17:12 weirdo: so apply will pass each element of a list AND that list to the function? 22:17:16 in fact, my lists contain only 1 or -1, so I'll try to put 2 spaces for a 1 and only 1 for a -1 22:17:29 (apply #'list-of (1)) is like calling (list-of 1 (1)) ? 22:17:35 poet, not that list, only contents 22:17:52 no 22:17:55 liek (list-of 1) 22:18:00 weirdo: so why does the function list-of have two arguments 22:18:31 (apply #'list-of '(a b)) -> (list-of 'a 'b) 22:19:06 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-133.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 22:19:24 ohhh I see 22:19:39 GrayShade: what does the "t" stand for? 22:19:46 thats why (apply #'+ (1 2 3)) results in (+ 1 2 3) 22:19:52 format "T" 22:20:05 gueux: standard-output. 22:20:08 so in this example it's the car and the cdr of the list that get passed to list-of 22:20:14 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [No route to host] 22:20:27 ok 22:20:38 gueux: doing (format nil ...) makes it return the string itself, instead of printing it out to stdout. 22:20:41 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:20:45 ok 22:20:50 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-133.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 22:20:59 so, I need this second option 22:21:22 clhs format 22:21:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm 22:21:28 Are there any known issues in running SBCL on linux-2.4 on PPC? 22:21:49 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:49 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:04 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:23:16 poet, more like the first and the second element 22:23:46 though APPLY is slow and should be avoided if possible 22:25:06 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:25:36 -!- dhess [n=user@bothawui.bothan.net] has quit ["bye!"] 22:26:02 (apply #'list-of elt) -> (list-of (first elt) (second elt)) 22:26:53 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:26:58 that's part of his approach to shorter programs (see 'arc') 22:27:16 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:52 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:04 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-204-206.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:28:30 arg 22:28:35 1 -1 22:28:37 1 1 22:28:43 is to hard for me :-) 22:29:33 gueux: that's what you wanted? 22:30:10 yes :-) 22:30:31 with two spaces for the 1's and only one for the -1's 22:30:36 easy, then 22:30:40 a variable space 22:31:12 gueux: (format t "~{~{~3d~}~%~}" '((1 -1) (-1 1))) 22:32:36 clhs 22.3.6.1 22:32:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cfa.htm 22:32:52 oh (: 22:33:14 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host136-154-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 22:33:51 Necromas [n=Necromas@141.224.236.113] has joined #lisp 22:34:27 ok 22:34:31 thanks a lot :-) 22:35:39 clhs 22.3.6.2 22:35:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cfb.htm 22:35:52 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:36:36 I'm almost glad that PCL doesn't talk about them :) 22:37:38 PCL doesn't talk about this, either: (loop for n upto 5 when (evenp n) collect it) => T T T 22:38:00 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 22:38:41 *blink*blink* evalbot is back? 22:38:42 pcl wasn't meant to replace the standard 22:39:18 OK, but are you glad that it doesn't talk about IT ? :-) 22:39:44 :) 22:39:46 i'm indifferent 22:41:50 (loop for char across "1234bcd45" when (digit-char-p char) collect it) is better example 22:42:30 isn't it possible to override the clisp print? 22:42:32 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177151068.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:42:39 with that new pretty print? 22:43:13 clisp is an open source implementation, sure it is possible 22:43:52 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.152] has joined #lisp 22:43:52 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:44:00 :-) 22:44:13 (defun pp (object) ...) at the REPL: (do-something) , huh, that's hard to read. (pp *) 22:44:15 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@214.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:44:34 * is the last result? 22:44:59 do you know the syntax for such an overriding? 22:45:08 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:45:20 clhs * 22:45:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_st.htm 22:45:23 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:45:25 gueux: better go by ayrnieu's hint 22:45:29 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:45:46 clhs / 22:45:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_sl.htm 22:46:21 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:46:30 -!- runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:46:35 GrayShade - * ** *** gives you results, + ++ +++ gives you evaluated forms, / // /// gives you lists of values of results, - gives you the present form. (print -) 22:47:02 runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 22:47:08 didn't encounter + and - yet 22:47:26 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:42 aargh for - 22:47:47 texel [n=jtgans@74.125.59.1] has joined #lisp 22:48:09 ayrnieu: sorry, I've not understood very well :-) 22:48:12 clhs - 22:48:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a__.htm 22:48:32 Hmf. Anybody here use clisp and attempted to build it from source? I'm getting an oddball error where gcc complains about a missing "ari80386.c". 22:48:40 gueux: (defun pp (list) (format t "~{~{~3d~}~%~}" list)) 22:48:40 you mean (defun pretty-print (implementation)) and then? 22:48:54 ok 22:49:00 (or better: if there's a channel for clisp, I'd appreciate the redirect =o) 22:49:05 gueux: then (pp *) when you see a result that's ugly 22:49:17 hum 22:49:19 texel: there is a mailing list 22:49:19 ok 22:49:23 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:49:33 gueux - right, and when you perform an operation and then want to pretty-print it, you can get the last-printed result with the variable named '* So: (do-something) (pp *) 22:49:36 stassats: mm. Okay. I'll have a look there. 22:49:38 but that's not what I wanted 22:49:47 or I've not understood very well 22:49:55 texel: sds is very friendly and responsive to user problems 22:50:06 fusss: sds? 22:50:06 I want clisp to print like that by default 22:50:07 gueux - I recommend this as an alternative to your idea. 22:50:15 texel: the maintainer 22:50:22 fusss: ahh. Danke. 22:50:59 gueux: what about the stuff you want to print and isn't a matrix? 22:51:15 clhs *print-pprint-dispatch* 22:51:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_pr_ppr.htm 22:51:24 I just want to override the print for list of lists 22:51:28 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 22:51:43 the other would keep the same implementation 22:51:56 gueux - (describe *print-pprint-dispatch*) 22:55:24 -!- ehird|away is now known as ehird 22:57:22 gah 22:57:29 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:57:29 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:57:34 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:38 my professor is making me do iterative versions of all my recursive lisp programs 22:58:16 what's the point of using lisp if you're gonna restrict yourself from using recursion? 22:58:17 Necromas: write a CPS converter. 22:59:03 lisp is not about recursion 23:00:11 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:00:37 lisp has a strong reliance on recursion unless you want to do more work than you have to 23:00:54 no, it hasn't 23:00:58 it even has no TCO 23:01:07 common lisp, that is 23:01:08 No guaranteed TCO, at least. 23:01:14 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:02:08 Beket [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:02:16 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:17 yeah, uh, _Scheme_ is about recursion 23:02:18 not CL.. 23:03:41 runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 23:04:00 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 23:04:17 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:05:51 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:06:08 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:55 -!- runenes__ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:09:28 ayrnieu: I just need to define a predicate is-a-list-of-list-of-1-and--1 23:09:37 and then to make a cond 23:09:44 with pp and print 23:09:45 no? 23:10:23 something like this 23:10:54 yes, but then, how to override the default value of print? 23:11:19 (I mean the manner lisp use to print the values on my screen) 23:11:35 s/use/uses 23:11:53 I still don't get this, why does it crash when there's only one element? http://paste.lisp.org/display/75816#1 23:12:28 the (not (eq (car next) time)) condition works fine 23:12:35 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:12:57 gueux: why do you want to do this? 23:13:09 disregarding the fact that the first one isn't needed :) 23:13:29 ok, that's useless 23:13:36 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:52 nevermind :-) 23:13:55 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:16:35 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:16:44 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:17:06 (defmethod print-object :around ((object list) stream) (if (eql (car object) 'special-list) (format stream "Fancy list: ~a" (cdr object)) (call-next-method))) 23:17:16 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:59 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 23:21:08 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:22:47 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:22:51 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:34 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-181.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 23:23:35 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 23:23:55 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:08 auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 23:27:33 dhess [n=user@bothawui.bothan.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:43 iaindalton [n=user@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:09 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.152] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:29:54 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:30:12 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.231.175] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:30:14 What's a good Lisp book other than PCL? It's confusingly written for a newbie. 23:30:28 minion: gentle? 23:30:29 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 23:30:55 Hey, thanks 23:31:26 aaaargh 23:31:56 CG-USER(104): (list (heap-count *events*) (heap-peek *events*)) 23:31:56 (0 (2 . "bar")) 23:32:56 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:33:48 Out of interest, has anyone here heard of MaxScript? It's an expression based imperative language, which apparantly has similarities to lisp 23:37:31 From 3DSMax, by the same company that created AutoLisp? 23:37:59 3dsmax: yes.... AutoLisp: I've never heard of it 23:38:05 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:38:43 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:39:02 -!- runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:39:32 runenes_ [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 23:39:43 AutoLisp is the scripting language for AutoCAD. 23:39:55 Bane of Lisp advertizing. 23:42:10 iaindalton - Let Over Lambda. 23:42:17 stassats pasted "pprint-dispatch for gueux" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75824 23:42:33 ayrnieu: "LOL"? 23:42:46 orz 23:42:58 regarding LOL, how is it? I was tempted to buy it 23:43:04 Please tell me that was published before "LOL" became a popular acronym :-) 23:43:07 -!- poet [n=tim@64.198.227.149] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:43:45 its own site says "if you can understand this book you are in the top percentile of lisp programmers." 23:44:03 Well good, but I think I'll start with something more basic ;-) 23:44:05 poet [n=tim@64.198.227.149] has joined #lisp 23:44:14 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6kc4p/new_book_about_common_lisp_let_over_lambda/ xach's comment about it 23:46:17 iaindalton - that's just the author's style. I think 'strident' is the word. 23:46:44 "Loud, harsh, grating, or shrill; discordant"? 23:46:50 xach's review of the first three chapters. 23:47:06 that doesn't sound too bad.. I'm sure one could get over the stylistic issues 23:47:13 iaindalton - well, suppose that you're sympathetic and just wouldn't say things like that. 23:47:17 it sounds pretty awful. 23:48:28 LOL is not a book about 'CL or Scheme'. Its *earmuffs*-avoidance is something that the intended audience can simply ignore. 23:48:29 GrayShade: i'd understand if there were no other good lisp books, but that's not a case 23:50:02 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-250-155-29.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:18 PAIP sounds interesting, too :) 23:50:19 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 23:50:37 I'm still waiting to hear a full review of that book... I thought at one point d.weinreb was planning on doing that but I don't think he got around to it 23:50:55 LOL I mean 23:51:09 cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:36 well, seeing Xach's review, I'll try to put something together. 23:52:01 GrayShade: if you are choosing between LOL and PAIP, you should definitely go with PAIP 23:53:58 and Hoyte mainly uses CMUCL, which permits (function '(lambda () 1)) 23:55:23 ayrnieu: mine doesn't 23:56:55 hmm.. I wonder if anything bad will happen if I get a Lisp book and a Haskell one in the same package :) 23:57:08 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:57:18 / order* 23:57:19 I'm enjoying PAIP quite a bit :) 23:57:19 liskell, obviously 23:57:23 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 23:57:57 CMU Common Lisp 19f-pre1 (19F), (function '(lambda () 1)) => # -- it's not actually funcallable, mind. 23:58:28 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:31 and not compilable