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(some #'(lambda (elt) (not (pred elt))) list) ? 01:37:47 Are you looking for EVERY? 01:37:53 yes. thank you. 01:39:00 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:39 do every, some, and others return early? 01:39:57 I believe so? 01:40:58 every returns false as soon as any invocation of predicate returns false. 01:41:02 says clhs 01:41:05 neat 01:41:21 ditto for some, notany, and notevery 01:41:30 are exceptions a good way to do that? 01:41:41 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:41:52 to do what? 01:42:16 fail early for predicate functions 01:42:35 I don't see why that is necessary. 01:42:38 ... Umm... What are "exceptions"? 01:43:03 and even in special cases, you can always use return-from. Also, remember that lisp doesn't have exceptions. It has a conditions system which serves a similar purpose. 01:43:10 conditions 01:48:25 -!- blowery_ is now known as blowery 01:48:35 Does anyone know if having a code-object with no embedded functions will break anything in SBCL? 01:51:16 nyef: I have a question back at you: how does one create that code-object with no embedded functions? 01:52:30 Is it reasonably "trivial"? 01:55:51 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:55:55 szergling: I can think of two or three methods, but they're all rather low-level. 01:56:59 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-144-241.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 01:57:35 Essentially, I'm considering wrapping assembly-routines and such in code-objects so that I can have the entire space scanned by the GC. 01:57:47 ymitsner [n=ymitsner@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:01 -!- ymitsner [n=ymitsner@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:59:08 ymitsner [n=ymitsner@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:59:42 st3fan [n=stefan@keizer.soze.com] has joined #lisp 02:00:12 hey anyone here with a lisp machine? we're trying to get an XL1200 going but the console is broken .. so we're now trying the serial console ... 02:00:47 wow 02:01:16 nyef: Thanks. 02:01:20 st3fan: ... so you thought you'd ask the usual suspects for help? 02:01:27 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-144-241.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Client Quit] 02:01:28 hehe 02:01:55 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B4BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 02:02:23 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.17] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:02:52 ... Yes, at least three methods for allocating a code-object without any embedded function headers. 02:03:50 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-34-208.phnx.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:04:12 -!- ymitsner [n=ymitsner@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.2"] 02:04:37 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:39 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-131-206.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:06 Cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:58 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:13:55 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:37 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:39 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:24:49 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:25:13 -!- yango_ [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [No route to host] 02:27:02 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)"] 02:29:37 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:33:09 -!- Cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:33:30 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:37 -!- ignas [n=ignas@158.59.224.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:39:17 -!- jli [n=jli@adsl-074-229-201-181.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 02:40:55 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 02:43:20 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 02:43:29 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 02:43:38 trebor_h` [n=user@dslb-084-058-229-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:27 -!- blowery [n=blowery@cpe-72-228-38-92.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:48:37 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192] has joined #lisp 02:49:57 blowery [n=blowery@cpe-72-228-38-92.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:54:14 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-41-178.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [] 02:54:22 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)"] 02:55:05 agr [n=agr@unaffiliated/aggarh] has joined #lisp 02:55:34 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:11 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-141-251.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:57:10 -!- stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.5/2008122807]"] 02:57:52 -!- Adamant_ [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:58:06 the lisp machine is dead we think 02:59:11 Image the disks and build an emulator for it? 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04:52:36 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:52:51 -!- repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-225-2-177.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:57:01 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 04:59:36 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:24 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:06:33 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:06:50 Cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:06:52 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:07:15 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:08:24 -!- Cools [n=user@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 05:09:43 -!- cipher [n=user@pool-71-184-152-81.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:21:42 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-235-253.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 05:22:59 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:12 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:23:27 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D96B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:04 Good morning. 05:24:09 hefner: not for a few weeks. 05:24:12 Too busy. 05:24:35 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1D60F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:28:22 LESS BUREAUCRACY, MORE FONT HACKING! 05:29:28 I agree. 05:31:55 *hefner* rediscovers http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.lispworks.general/8784 05:32:44 "And so now being able to perform 1024 element complex-valued FFT's at 100 kHz, there is really nothing standing in the way of some serious realtime audio processing..." 05:35:26 my quick experiment at the repl using the fft code I got from beach manages 10,000 1024 element complex FFTs per second, without going to quite so much effort to optimize things 05:36:08 That code is not very optimized 05:36:38 It uses radix 2 for one thing, and small transforms are not specialized. 05:36:42 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-41-35.ucr.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:36:52 interesting 05:37:23 double floats, too (I bet they're using single floats), but I'm not sure how much difference that makes 05:37:39 double floats are probably faster these days. 05:39:24 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:40:03 I was impressed with how fast that code was, although I had no benchmark to compare with 05:42:45 I think it can be made *much* faster. 05:49:48 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:49:55 I can't tell from these postings whether their FFT is actually written in lisp. Some things suggest so, others not. 05:50:46 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:51:23 thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:02 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.171.149] has joined #lisp 05:54:07 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 05:55:24 -!- mrsolo__ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ae0ba4b3da55a157] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:55:33 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:55 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl080.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has left #lisp 05:58:26 brandelune [n=suzume@pl080.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:00:38 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 06:02:27 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl080.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 06:02:35 brandelune [n=suzume@pl080.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:04:59 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 06:09:33 Lou__ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 06:09:34 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Client Quit] 06:09:37 -!- Lou__ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:09:54 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 06:21:31 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 06:32:00 repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-225-2-177.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:15 benny [n=benny@i577A015E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:45:06 hefner: perhaps it would be good publicity if SBCL came with a good FFT implementation. 06:46:03 FFT? 06:46:12 Fast Fourier Transform 06:46:16 oh 06:46:26 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:46:39 hmm. For ILC, can I claim the ALU discount if I buy my ALU membership at the same time? 06:47:14 beach: Does SBCL not have a good FFT implementation? 06:48:50 Quadrescence: none comes with the SBCL distribution as far as I know. 06:49:05 beach: Hm, maybe it's something I could do for a change. 06:49:27 Quadrescence: do you know anything about the FFT algorithm? 06:50:20 beach: I've written it a lot, for some bignum libraries I wrote. That, and NTTs (number-theoretic transform), which does convolutions over integers Z/pZ for a certain prime p. 06:50:31 Excellent! 06:53:00 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 06:53:36 -!- aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:53:39 aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 06:57:48 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:59 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.139.32] has joined #lisp 06:58:21 Quadrescence: If you need a shuffle algorithm (which you probably don't if you do it recursively), then I am the one holding the world record in speed. 06:58:46 beach: World record in speed? :O 06:58:50 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:59:09 Yes, I wrote the fastest one known to mankind :) 06:59:31 Documentation on it? 06:59:41 Sure, it is published. 06:59:43 debs [n=debs@146-115-127-174.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:46 hello all 06:59:54 hello debs 07:00:00 does anyone have time for a noob? 07:00:43 i've just got some quick questions about setting up SLIME 07:01:03 Quadrescence: A Very Fast Recursive Bit Reversal Algorithm Robert Strandh, Universite Bordeaux I, France; and Anne C. Elster, University of Texas at Austin, USA 07:01:48 Quadrescence: http://www.siam.org/meetings/cse00/ 07:01:52 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:58 beach: Whoa, by shuffling, you mean bit reversal? 07:03:04 same thing 07:03:16 debs: just go ahead. You'll find out if anyone answers. 07:03:16 no noob love? :( 07:03:22 oh ok thank you beach 07:03:25 beach: Shuffling usually means rearranging in random order. :> 07:03:26 just trying to be polite 07:03:37 Quadrescence: ah, OK. 07:04:14 debs: the tradition here is to just go ahead and ask, and then not to repeat the question of no answer is given (because we have logs). 07:04:16 heh beach, obvious where your nickname comes from now :D 07:04:43 Cel: all of then actually: beach, spiaggia, plage 07:04:48 -!- homoioi [n=zc155789@nat/sun/x-4cb3081d877c65eb] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:05:02 I've never heard of that last name before.. kinda cool 07:05:16 It is very common in Sweden 07:05:26 well, perhaps not *very* 07:05:37 homoioi [n=zc155789@nat/sun/x-0917dc2fb8d871c5] has joined #lisp 07:05:39 antifuchs: happy birthday! 07:05:52 ah, swedish.. well it's 1 letter more than the dutch word for beach :) 07:05:53 i'm trying to find my ~/.emacs or .emacs.el file so I can edit it to setup Slime. I can't seem to find it? 07:06:08 debs: that's where it is ~/.emacs if it's not there, create it 07:06:22 Cel: Oh, that's just an old Swedish tradition to add `h'es and such. 07:08:11 Thank you Cel 07:09:51 where is everyone from? 07:10:05 Cambridge MA here. 07:10:56 beach: Are there any papers or publications? I cannot find anything (I looked at that link). 07:11:43 Quadrescence: the proceedings are published, but not online I think. 07:11:55 Quadrescence: You might find something on Ann's website. 07:12:28 beach: I'll look. 07:14:15 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:15:38 morning. 07:15:43 hello tic 07:15:44 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.181.30.183] has left #lisp 07:18:08 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:26 howdy partners! 07:18:45 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-129-148.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:52 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [] 07:21:16 beach: What powers SBCL's bignums? 07:22:02 Quadrescence: I am not the best one to answer that question, but I think it is just Lisp code, and probably not very sophisticated either. 07:22:18 Err, I have the source right in front of me. Better look there I guess. :) 07:24:14 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 07:26:58 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:51 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:36:40 Hmm, lot's of FIXMEs in the math code. 07:36:54 fusss, howdy ho 07:38:41 Quadrescence: they should be called OPTIMIZEME instead. the "fix" is a little too vague if not heavy. 07:39:10 fusss: Yeah, many of the fixmes are minor "extreme case" things, really. 07:40:08 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:46:02 The bignum code could be improved upon incredibly (no, it's not at all bad code, but it could be orders of magnitude after, I think) 07:46:19 "faster"? 07:46:43 Asymptotically (and practically) 07:47:09 Quadrescence: I am sure that's true. CLISP has faster bignum code than SBCL (or used to at least). 07:47:25 Oh, yes, faster* 07:54:52 beach: Now I am slightly motivated to rewrite the bigint routines. 07:56:35 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:13 CLISP's code could likewise be sped up a lot too. Unfortunately, I have no interest in writing code for a code-base that is commented in German and is written in some ugly C. :< 08:01:57 Quadrescence: if you want to contribute to both sbcl and clisp, please be careful with GPL cross-pollination. 08:02:29 sykopomp: hm? 08:03:07 fusss: I am not sure I'd contribute to CLISP. 08:03:41 -!- szergling [n=tyc20@125-236-135-147.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:04:55 H4ns: You warned me last year about thread usage and bknr, and I'm wondering if some big lock would be enough to fight off any crash demons. 08:06:21 sykopomp: that is a proper strategy. (assuming that you're using hunchentoot) make sure all your handlers return strings, then hold on to the lock before entering any of your handlers 08:06:44 sykopomp: you'd want to make sure that none of your handlers are slow, i.e. process mails in separate threads. 08:06:47 not using hunchentoot, actually. I pulled the .datastore and .indices out for a different project. 08:07:12 cffi removes most of the differences; i used clisp with many tricky packages (i.e. gtk and opengl) for weeks on windows, until i discovered i wasn't using sbcl. quite surprising actually; i followed ever README as if I was using sbcl and it worked on clisp. 08:07:35 sykopomp: ah, ok. same holds: don't hold on to your lock when doing slow i/o 08:08:19 roger. It's nice to be working with this datastore again. Trying the db-based ones was a bit of a nightmare :-\ 08:08:34 sykopomp: glad you like it. 08:09:15 sykopomp: you might benefit from the recent "writing a windows service" thread in cll. good engineering in there about writing high performance servers without threads :-) 08:10:08 fusss: where was the "high performance" aspect of this discussion? 08:11:25 H4ns: the original poster didn't care for performance, but the resulting discussion sent me into a little research today. basically unix/win32 differences wrt to non-blocking i/o and select(2). 08:11:36 Changing topic, is there a declarative make-like language library for Lisp around? 08:12:12 tic: Why not use something like ASDF? 08:12:31 aja, sorry, I meant "in Lisp", not "for Lisp" 08:13:09 tic: asdf + cl-launch? :-P 08:13:25 tic: makefiles are not exactly rocket science. in fact, they are that primitive because make was written in c and writing real parsers in c is painful. 08:13:33 tic: Well, "make" is about building a system, not what language it is in (you could easily use make, as is, in Lisp). 08:13:49 can someone point out that make is somehow slow, please? 08:14:00 tic: I would think that the package system that is already present provides much of what you need. 08:14:22 H4ns: Why would one care whether make was slow or not? It's not runtime. 08:14:57 ouch, cl-launch is too well documented! 08:15:55 aja, I've failed completely at expressing myself. :) My goal is to replace a huge shell script that builds different flavors of Product for different Targets by calling cp, make, tar and friends. While possible, it's rather awkward to do "real" programming in bash. What I want is to separate data definitions from the code actually doing the necessary operations. E.g., like make, but less handicapped. 08:16:49 tic: asdf can be used for that. 08:17:46 H4ns, that I did not know! Thanks, seems I'll have to check out ASDF. (at the same time, though, it feels like ASDF is going out the window RSN(tm) -- wasted time?) 08:18:31 tic: i don't see anything that is remotely ready to replace asdf at the moment. but you could look at xcvb if you fear that asdf could disappear somehow. 08:19:33 sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 08:19:35 tic: ASDF isn't going anywhere soon, warts and all. 08:21:11 tic: asdf's operators are all generic functions, with everything that implies (Keene's book actually has a mini system building example like what you're describing, iirc) 08:23:18 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-18-214.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 08:25:42 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:26:56 fusss, right, the tiny INSTALL. (p. 80). I want it to be even more generic, I think, like dispatching on a set of rules/facts. Prolog-esque. (but I'm still not sure on where I want to draw the line between definititions/rules/facts and the transformation to the "native" operations such as copy/archive/delete/...) 08:27:08 Thanks for the advice on ASDF, guys. 08:30:52 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B4BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:42 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:37:28 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:39:48 H4ns: is there info anywhere on how bknr serializes various objects? hash-tables and symbols in particular.. 08:40:27 sykopomp: encode.lisp and decode.lisp contain some comments. 08:40:49 sykopomp: and the source is pretty readable, i think (i did not write it, but modified and fixed it a few times) 08:44:37 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:59 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 08:48:12 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-71-165-20-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:47 so it is! Thank you. 08:54:45 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:57:08 vy [n=user@88.227.54.135] has joined #lisp 09:00:12 H4ns: Is RFC2388 support in Hunchentoot written by you? 09:05:21 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:06:53 thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:24 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 09:09:03 I can't build SBCL on my MacBook Tiger 10.4.11. If anyone happens to use a mac and found a workaround I'd much appreciate it. 09:10:12 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:12:01 -!- archypetro [n=archange@cpc2-oxfd4-0-0-cust85.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:17:28 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:22:31 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-18-214.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:25:30 *hefner* curses loop, writes second indirect maximization loop in two days 09:26:09 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:29:09 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:33:02 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:15 kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:38:32 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:38:47 hello llispers 09:40:03 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:45:56 hello kiuma 09:46:39 m2ym [n=m2ym@p1013-ipbf1802hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:47:46 `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.207] has joined #lisp 09:48:05 <`m4dnificent> nick madnificent 09:51:55 hello `m4dnificent , how's goning? 09:52:41 hello beach 09:54:39 -!- `m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 09:54:57 hello kiuma 09:55:37 LostMonarch [n=roby@host108-177-dynamic.51-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:56:23 kiuma: superb, actually. sykopomp pointed me to bknr yesterday, which was a breeze to install (after the efforts to do the same with bknr). So I actually got up early in the hopes of giving it a test-run :D 09:56:25 kiuma: how are you? 09:57:07 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@115.147.103.79] has joined #lisp 09:57:16 -!- ebzzry [n=ebzzry@115.147.103.79] has quit [Client Quit] 09:57:59 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:59:58 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:01:10 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:06 I'm fine too, I'm on a new project in Milan, ppl are good but the project is made up with Seam, the worst crap library I ever seen. On the lisp side I'm at a goo point with cms backend. Today I'll work rendering the cms node via dojo xhr. I've added the possibility to have html template for deining pages and components layout into claw (even if I don't remember if I've committed anything 10:02:20 madnificent :)) 10:04:27 kiuma: The problem with seam is that on the surface, it looks perfect. 10:04:34 kiuma: But don't run into problems :( 10:04:45 Like, for instance, a simple n:m-relationship 10:04:45 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:05:29 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:06:19 Jabberwockey: that reminds me of drupal :P 10:06:31 hefner: Perhaps it'd be a good idea to grab EXTREMUM from cl-utilities and put it into your project. 10:06:35 Jabberwockey: with surface being management 10:06:47 woo hoo i did it 10:07:26 madnificent: Never tried drupal 10:07:43 Jabberwockey, the fact is that it reminds me a lot the old Struts, and my tastes go in the component based frameworks direction 10:08:01 if you don't mind me asking, does working in Lisp pay descent (depending on work, country, etc. of course) 10:08:28 -!- m2ym [n=m2ym@p1013-ipbf1802hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has left #lisp 10:09:20 debs, I'm trying to build my market, but atm I'm earning with java 10:10:41 what type of work do you do with Lisp specifically? 10:11:06 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 10:11:19 newb12345 [n=x@DNab434dec.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 10:11:22 debs: from what I've read, many lisp startups seem to work. I don't know about companies searching for lispers though. 10:11:27 in open source projects, what's the biggest #lisp succes story? 10:11:48 newb12345: #lisp itself! \o/ 10:12:10 in open source projects, what's the biggest lisp succes story? (i.e. projects writen in lisp) 10:12:30 newb12345: outside of lisp implementations themselves... maxima and Emacs? 10:12:53 i've never had time to devote to lisp because i was actually making money doing something else, and at the moment compensation is high on the priorities due to a number of factors 10:13:20 but I want to devote time to lisp 10:13:27 so a critic can look at lisp, and be like: the only real useful projects to come out of it are maxima & emacs? (seems kinda short compared to things like kernel, gcc, ... for languages like C) 10:13:39 debs: learn lisp if you find the time for it (and do your best finding that time). It will probably be an eye-opener in some respects 10:13:55 I know folks who still use it in academia and in industry but they are MIT folk 10:14:19 newb12345: a critic might think further than that and realise that a visiting card, does not represent the entity 10:14:41 sorry? 10:14:48 i don't understand 10:15:07 newb12345: C was designed as a sort of portable assembler in time when macro assemblers ruled the world. So it's not a big difference. Plus, it contains little "system" side compared to really high level languages 10:16:17 newb12345: even though your reasoning has been made by others, it is somewhat strange. When you see a man with a fancy suit, and a lone wanderer, you immediately assume that the man with the suit must be the 'best'. Whilst there is no reason whatsoever that that man is the 'best' at anything. 10:16:59 not at all, the loner wanderer may be a kungu master 10:17:03 *p_l* would be more interested in the lone wanderer 10:17:04 As a matter of fact... drifters are better at a lot of things. 10:17:06 and the guy in the suit just happen to have rich parents 10:17:41 what i'm asking is ... if lisp makes me 10x more productive (which I believe it is); why are so many of the big projects written in C? is there 10x the ppl proficient in C than the ppl proficient in lisp? 10:17:50 newb12345: for as far as I can tell, lisp isn't successful (with respect to the amount of users), simply because people make your reasoning (as first point). Allso because people don't want to learn a syntax that is so different (yet many of those that know the syntax do not want to switch away from it) 10:17:57 I struggle to believe that ppl who live + die by pointers + low level details of machine archs can't grasp lisp 10:18:19 newb12345: Let's say that Lisp had bad press. _very_ bad press in some circles. Fortunately, the trends are going towards high-level languages 10:18:34 and this bad press lasted for 50 years? 10:18:40 in the age of the internet + email? 10:18:43 + twitter 10:19:29 Twitter is some kind of new Web x.0 stuff, yes? Also, last AI winter was early '90s 10:19:35 the human brain is like a tunnel, not like an open field ;) 10:20:08 madnificent: I'd say that it's a garbage dumped into mixer designed by mad scientist 10:20:54 newb12345: your reasoning is literally the one I come across the most. For some reason lisp isn't 'hip' these days, and that is what kills it I guess... Times could be turning, with many people searching for more productive languages. 10:20:59 newb12345: 70~80s, Lisp had very good press - Lisp Machines etc. Then came the AI Winters and Lisp was collateral damage 10:21:10 p_l: you believe in creationism?! 10:21:27 madnificent: No. But it's a fitting analogy 10:22:07 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:22:08 p_l: I should've added ;) 10:22:14 newb12345, debs : you have two options: follow the wave, then go with java/.net/oracle and earn your money. Be the author of your business, so do only what you beleave in. For example I beleave in business capabilities of lisp, but for you might be different 10:23:17 kiuma: whoa, are you running your own startup in lisp? 10:23:38 debs: there are 'important' projects in lisp though. Our nuclear power plant is using lisp for instance 10:24:25 nuclear plants using lisp? 10:24:29 what if it decides to go gc? 10:25:19 newb12345: commercial lisps are _very_ capable (even the free lisps tend to be extremely good) 10:25:21 newb12345: For lack of open source "success stories", remember that many open source projects get written in whatever was easiest to get, not what is best for the job (despite the fact that it's recommended to use advanced languages that are better at the job) 10:25:25 newb12345: learn it, and you will be amazed 10:26:17 newb12345, I earn money (good money) in java. I'm bored of java j2ee because I've reached its limitations and I can't stand them anymore. While I want to crate a market wor my web broducts. That the fact that are made in lisp is only of my interest, I want to sell solutions not a language. 10:26:18 cp1134_ [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has joined #lisp 10:26:31 newb12345: you can tune it to real-time usage, and usually the hard real time is abstracted into separate modules that have constant time/memory requirements 10:27:13 i believe in the power of lisp... more so the freedom 10:27:15 newb: Read about real-time gc algorithms. 10:27:34 *madnificent* finds emacs a 'success storie'. It has many users, many personalized changes made to it. Many plugins and commiters for it. Where it could've been an editor, it has become my standard working environment for about anything. Even though that isn't common lisp, this kind of flexibility isn't seen in most other projects. 10:27:36 i hate the internet and these Web x.0 stuffs as well 10:27:52 i mean once could make a living out of damaged legacy code as well 10:28:07 i have several friends who merely maintain garbage 10:28:11 debs: You can always commit suicide. 10:28:21 the suicide has been in the top 10 queue 10:28:27 Zhivago 10:28:29 It will end the pain, but nothing else will. 10:28:43 wow, when did #lisp turn into /b/? 10:28:46 ah pain isn't so bad anymore 10:28:52 Excellent. 10:29:02 newb12345: In fact, of the three languages that I know to be used in real-time applications (where you have human lives on stake), Ada, Erlang and Lisp (in various forms), two use GC :) 10:29:17 sorry that's my fault. I'm the n00b in here. 10:30:10 debs: so in any case. As you could assume, we advise you to learn it. Go ahead, grab a book, get a lisp, and start learning/hacking 10:30:28 debs: Legacy code you say... I was once recommended to learn COBOL, advertised as money growing on trees :) 10:30:34 antifuchs: Today's your Burzelday? 10:30:36 yah i've been digging in for a bit now 10:30:44 tcr: it is ((: 10:30:54 Happy Burzelday! 10:30:59 thanks (-: 10:31:20 Burzelday? Sounds like a name for the day when you finally do a GC on your house... 10:33:28 guess I shouldn't have forgotten my german... 10:35:40 -!- aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:36:50 -!- cp1134 [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:40:08 it isn't orthodox german, at any rate (: 10:42:03 madnificent: i know lisp; i'm just trying to find really big projects that use it besides emacs 10:42:23 p_l: i guess for a language, if you have a bound on how long it takes to gc the entire heap, the gc isn't too big a deal 10:42:46 newb: Read about real-time GC algorithms. 10:43:02 newb: Then read about asynchronous GC algorithms. 10:43:16 newb: Then you can have a slightly informed discussion on the topic. 10:45:18 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:45:21 elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has joined #lisp 10:45:41 Danijel [i=Danijel@unaffiliated/danijel] has joined #lisp 10:48:28 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-136-119.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:40 is gc garbage collect? 10:48:50 mega1 [n=mega@pool-0646c.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:49:05 debs: yes 10:49:38 i'm so tired i was imagning all these different things 10:51:16 debs: Rest before you imagine that your lisp implementation is going to gc you. (I'm not really making this up, sever sleep deprivement does wonders) 10:51:45 newb12345: What is the point of that exercise, i.e. trying to find a really big project that uses Lisp besides Emacs? 10:54:18 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-61-134.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:57:34 newb12345: I am asking because there are fairly often exchanges like that here: Person: is there a Lisp program that fulfils condition A? #lisp: X does! Person: X doesn't fulful condition B, is there one that fulfils both A and B? #lisp: Y! Person: Y doesn't fulfil condition C.... 10:58:15 newb12345: and then it ends with something like: Person: I thought so. So there must be something wrong with Lisp then. 10:59:28 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:55 -!- Danijel [i=Danijel@unaffiliated/danijel] has left #lisp 11:02:25 schasi [n=schasi@p54A26957.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:31 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:08:33 slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A623.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:49 -!- slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A623.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:11:06 i'd rather learn lisp than python 11:11:27 You could even learn both. 11:11:40 i could 11:11:40 :) 11:12:39 Does anyone in chat do AI? 11:13:02 minion are you an AI? 11:13:13 minion: are you an AI? 11:13:14 no 11:13:31 cute 11:14:18 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:14:27 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:15:38 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:16:48 slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A623.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:16 <__death> fe[nl]ix: alive? 11:18:18 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:20:17 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B4BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:21:26 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 11:21:28 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:21:37 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:23:52 -!- __death is now known as _death 11:26:10 -!- p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:27:07 -!- slash__ is now known as slash_ 11:30:23 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:30:32 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:06 `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.207] has joined #lisp 11:32:47 josemanuel [n=josemanu@232.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:34:39 sykopomp, around? 11:35:03 beach: What was the reason for starting Climacs from scratch, rather than porting Hemlock? 11:35:53 tcr: I didn't like the data structure used for the buffer. 11:38:02 sbahra_ [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:45 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483D16D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:46 -!- schasi [n=schasi@p54A26957.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:42:52 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 11:44:15 schasi [n=schasi@p54A26957.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:00 -!- schasi [n=schasi@p54A26957.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 11:45:04 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:47:26 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 11:48:23 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.207] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:50:24 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:51:22 ceineke_ [n=chris@CPE001c109fb260-CM001ac319195a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:26 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:52:27 -!- `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.207] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:55:22 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-61-134.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [] 12:01:13 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:06 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:02:15 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:02:44 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:07:41 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:08:19 matley [n=matley@83.225.226.75] has joined #lisp 12:11:01 i learned lisp on hemlock and hacked on it briefly (circa 2002.) it isn't too hard to divorce it from cmucl (see portable hemlock) but it's essentially a motif application. 12:11:16 cmu CLM != semi-standard CLM 12:12:12 tons of quirks between Motfi 1 and Motif2; Lesstif was good but then the official motif got open sourced as well, a few discrepancies there also. 12:12:51 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-150-188.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:13:40 I think gilberth gave it a CLIM interface. 12:17:08 ... or did I just make that up? 12:20:59 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:22:00 in the manner of a "false memory"? 12:23:40 schasi [n=schasi@p54A26957.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:07 -!- schasi [n=schasi@p54A26957.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 12:26:00 He did write a CLIM interface. I just found it. 12:28:36 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:11 schasi [n=schasi@p54A26957.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:23 -!- Eleanore [n=a@c213-100-35-225.swipnet.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:36:51 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:36:56 bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:51 m2ym [n=m2ym@p1013-ipbf1802hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:38:31 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-136-119.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:38:57 -!- m2ym [n=m2ym@p1013-ipbf1802hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has left #lisp 12:42:22 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:43:43 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:46:09 blowery [n=blowery@cpe-72-228-38-92.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:02 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087CD2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:53 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:01:27 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:03:32 -!- schasi [n=schasi@p54A26957.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 13:04:05 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:14 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 13:08:10 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 13:13:55 tcr: good reply on that trollish article there 13:14:14 macroexpand-1 ad nauseam 13:16:47 i just can't seem to get it to work. C-c RET, opens a new read only *SLIME Macroexpansion* buffer. how do I repeat it? 13:19:59 Within the buffer itself, on a macro form 13:20:45 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-140-171.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:21:04 is this from a recent slime? I'm running something from early '08 13:21:26 emacs-dwim [n=user@cpe-74-71-13-156.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:40 mine just copies the form under the cursor 13:23:40 Is there a patch for CLX so that ISO_Level3_Shift will work in CLIM? 13:24:37 -!- triplie [n=triplie@78.157.23.246] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:26:31 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-150-188.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:27:57 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp359.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:32:45 *beach* wishes he knew the answer to that question. 13:33:27 -!- vy [n=user@88.227.54.135] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:34:14 i found this but it will be awhile before i can try it out... http://mlblog.osdir.com/lisp.clx.devel/2004-10/index.shtml 13:36:06 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp359.studby.uio.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:41:45 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:49:42 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:50:11 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:04 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:17 segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1CF24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:53 -!- newb12345 [n=x@DNab434dec.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:56:02 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D96B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:51 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:59:38 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:00:33 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:24 fusss: Is point in front of a macro form? 14:04:07 yes (|with-open-file) where | is the caret 14:05:10 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.226.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:05:10 it just copies "WITH-OPEN-FILE", no body, into the read-only macro-expansion buffer. 14:06:47 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:35 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.241] has joined #lisp 14:08:57 You're in front of a macro, how is that supposed to be expanded? 14:09:21 (I do have code that will enable to you to expand symbol macros, it's not published though) 14:09:29 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.241] has quit [Client Quit] 14:09:57 s/in front of a macro/in front of a symbol/ 14:10:22 _death: pong 14:10:43 <_death> fe[nl]ix: hey :) 14:11:12 -!- jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["zzzz"] 14:11:21 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 14:11:34 <_death> fe[nl]ix: I was wondering if you're planning on implementing a non-blocking mechanism for name lookup 14:12:55 _death: I am, but it's not my top priority right now 14:13:20 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 14:13:31 hello 14:13:38 <_death> I see 14:13:38 xdaadx [i=xda@94.26.67.214] has joined #lisp 14:13:40 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:14 re 14:15:52 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:16:09 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:24 ignas [n=ignas@158.59.224.76] has joined #lisp 14:19:41 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:35 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.195.124] has joined #lisp 14:22:57 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.195.124] has left #lisp 14:25:01 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:25:54 schasi [n=schasi@p54A26957.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:20 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:29:30 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 14:29:45 tcr: oh, no worries 14:30:06 hello kami- 14:30:38 kami-: i still can't get over your name (it's my realy name :-P sorta) 14:31:22 they call me "kumi" in real life 14:34:21 hey fusss ! 14:34:44 fusss, nearly like my name 14:34:52 the other soundex of my name. hey kiuma :-P 14:35:57 blhea! kiuma.com is a splattern site, what a shit :( 14:41:50 aw aw aww aww .. mein eiballz 14:42:48 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:43:54 fe[nl]ix: a few notes on how to generate the documentation for iolib would be helpful 14:43:56 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:45:04 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:48:29 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:49:53 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:58 nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-223-182-13.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:04 G'morning all. 14:55:09 hello nyef 14:55:23 xristos: that's a bit difficult 14:55:49 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:58:14 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:58:22 fe[nl]ix: ? 14:59:16 I mean building the docs 14:59:46 well i know that 14:59:49 you need to fetch texinfo-docstrings, revert to a certain revision 15:00:11 plus I've patched the default FSF templates 15:00:12 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:16 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-138-197.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:00:32 i'm trying to track down asdf-additions 15:00:39 ??? 15:00:48 asdf-additions is no more 15:00:51 texinfo-docstrings needs it 15:00:56 Eleanore [n=a@c213-100-35-225.swipnet.se] has joined #lisp 15:02:03 that can't be 15:02:05 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:02:07 maybe you have an old version 15:02:21 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A623.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 15:02:48 fe[nl]ix maybe i'll get the compiled docs and save myself the agony 15:03:07 but why does it have to be like this 15:03:10 it could be easier 15:03:49 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:00 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:06:24 ben__ [n=ben@e179239054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:06:47 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:08:14 rfgpfeiffer [n=rfgpfeif@e178192226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:00 -!- rfgpfeiffer [n=rfgpfeif@e178192226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 15:09:06 rfgpfeiffer [n=rfgpfeif@e178192226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:17 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:10:09 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@232.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 15:12:45 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 15:14:47 Agr [n=agr@unaffiliated/aggarh] has joined #lisp 15:15:22 fe[nl]ix: I'd just put the cruft into your doc/ directory, and write a make file. 15:16:06 tcr: those are already there 15:16:23 but I'd prefer not bundling my patched version of the doc generator 15:16:50 you don't have to bundle it 15:16:54 why not, for the time being? 15:17:04 just put something in the README that says where to get and sorts out the revision trouble and all that 15:18:24 i admit though it might be more trouble than its worth currently 15:18:39 maybe when you release 1.0 15:19:17 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:20:06 -!- Agr [n=agr@unaffiliated/aggarh] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:20:11 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host147.190-227-32.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:20:42 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A623.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:42 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf171.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:46 xristos: I've updated the README 15:33:02 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host77.190-226-115.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:34:37 am i the only who loves html "all in one page" documentation? weitz-style docs are optimal 15:35:12 i hate it when i have to build documentation on a bastardized posix-on-win32 box with no TeX 15:41:41 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 15:44:34 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 15:44:39 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0C78B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:01 fusss: I like it better than every-single-subsection-is-a-html-page documentation... 15:45:09 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 15:45:36 i need a name for my cnc-milling software, any suggestions? 15:45:41 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:46:35 cl:matter-difference 15:46:45 :} 15:47:51 "pare" 15:48:19 uh, don't get that one 15:49:08 pare/cut, pare/parenthesis 15:49:32 that's way too geeky for me! :] 15:49:41 i think i'm gonna call it cl-mill 15:50:13 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:50:27 -!- rfgpfeiffer [n=rfgpfeif@e178192226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 15:50:44 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:52:21 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0E727.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:25 rfgpfeiffer [n=rfgpfeif@e178192226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:56:15 lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:57:49 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:59:05 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.139.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:59:49 danlei`` [n=user@pD9E2D398.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:13 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C78B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:05:09 http://cl-mill.googlecode.com/ 16:05:11 here it goes 16:05:28 it's in a pretty dismal state 16:05:37 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 16:06:02 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 16:07:27 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:18 Are all constant-vector references on x86 SBCL performed with absolute addressing (thus requiring fixups)? 16:10:29 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0C78B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:34 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.75.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:11:11 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.171.149] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:11:19 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 16:11:31 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.171.149] has joined #lisp 16:12:30 -!- rfgpfeiffer [n=rfgpfeif@e178192226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 16:12:46 -!- canto2 [n=ogjae@p54ABD690.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 16:13:51 rfgpfeiffer [n=rfgpfeif@e178192226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:22 -!- danlei` [n=user@pD9E2D191.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:21:16 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:22:48 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:50 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-138-197.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:25:01 -!- H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0E727.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:30:00 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 16:31:08 manuel_: a cliki page would make it world reachable :-) 16:31:21 yeah, i dn't really care too much about that for now 16:31:29 agz [n=mate@225-36.adsl.etel.hu] has joined #lisp 16:31:51 what to do with: The name "FFI" does not designate any package. ?? 16:32:14 I have sbcl 1.0.25 uffi cffi 16:32:29 -!- agz [n=mate@225-36.adsl.etel.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 16:39:48 agz: About the only thing to do is to diagnose the error further in the hopes of fixing it. 16:39:56 Oh. You left already. 16:42:03 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:42:35 -!- homoioi [n=zc155789@nat/sun/x-0917dc2fb8d871c5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:43:11 homoioi [n=zc155789@nat/sun/x-a0199627ec1c0b73] has joined #lisp 16:46:33 GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.189.157] has joined #lisp 16:48:05 can anyone help me a bit with emacs, slime and sbcl on windows? I can get slime to start, but the repl hangs. 16:49:16 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:00 That's rather surprising. I was under the impression that the default communication-style for slime+sbcl/win32 was NIL, which shouldn't have that kind of problem. 16:51:11 That said, the last I checked into this was something like a year and a half ago, so take it with a grain of salt. 16:51:49 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:59 I'm new to emacs and lisp, but I would guess that the CL-USER> prompt should work like a normal repl, right? 16:52:55 More or less, yes. 16:53:31 with enter after an expression? 16:53:36 yes. 16:53:55 then it hangs. 16:54:23 1 16:54:55 -!- ben__ [n=ben@e179239054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["leaving"] 16:55:19 *GrayShade* wonders if the warnings in the messages buffer are important 16:56:06 the ones that say "Connected. Let the hacking commence!" aren't important. 16:56:07 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:56:40 and the ones that say "Implicitly creating new generic function STREAM-READ-CHAR-WILL-HANG-P"? :P 16:56:57 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:32 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.250.5] has joined #lisp 16:59:12 http://paste.lisp.org/display/75017 16:59:37 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [] 16:59:49 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 17:00:22 [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.134] has joined #lisp 17:01:01 Crap. I think I've re-invented generic functions. :/ 17:03:45 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 17:04:52 tic: "And today, we're going to reinvent the -octagonal- wheel!" 17:05:29 agz [n=mate@225-36.adsl.etel.hu] has joined #lisp 17:07:15 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf171.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:07:28 archangelpetro [n=archange@cpc2-oxfd4-0-0-cust85.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:04 GrayShade: Instead of (slime-setup), use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) in your .emacs 17:09:08 works, thanks! 17:09:26 now what was that? :/ 17:09:47 BrianRice [n=briantri@74.125.59.4] has joined #lisp 17:09:56 you were typing in expression in the *inferior-lisp* buffer which is the direct communication with your sbcl process 17:10:01 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 17:10:53 on windows, threads are not available 17:11:13 oh 17:11:14 tcr: I'm sure there was a good reason behind that slime-setup change, I just haven't found it (or gone looking for it) yet 17:11:21 morning folks 17:11:30 and the only thread waits for input from the socket 17:12:31 nyef, I'm going to take over the world with oddly shaped wheels! 17:12:52 do you think Practical Common Lisp is a good way to start? I know some Scheme already. 17:12:58 GrayShade, yes. 17:13:38 GrayShade: you're well positioned to dive in my friend 17:13:45 DrScheme has an almost nice IDE for beginners :) 17:13:52 -!- joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [] 17:13:56 slyrus_: It wasn't me. 17:14:04 I know, just sayin' :) 17:14:11 GrayShade: for beginners. yes. 17:14:34 GrayShade: if you're on Windows and sorta miss DrScheme, LispIDE is half-way there 17:14:47 that is when it doesn OOM 17:14:50 doesn't* 17:15:39 http://daansystems.com/lispide/ <-- this one is no emacs, but it's very light weight and gives you enough just to start hacking. again, it's no emacs :-) 17:16:03 thanks. I'll try emacs for a while, though 17:16:39 good idea 17:17:15 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.70.223] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:18:24 well, thanks for the help. But I'll ask around if anything else comes up. :) 17:18:49 X-Scale [i=email@89.181.52.238] has joined #lisp 17:19:44 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-41.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:20:25 feel at home :-) 17:21:38 madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.207] has joined #lisp 17:22:49 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:23:34 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:26:57 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 17:28:14 how do I get out of the debugger? I tried 4 (abort and close connection), but after this the repl no longer works and the *messages* buffer says something about pipelined requests. 17:30:07 you told it to abort and close the connection (between slime and sbcl). Just tell it to abort. 17:30:14 oh 17:30:40 hm. should this print anything? (dolist (x '(1 2 3 4)) (format t "~a" x)) 17:31:15 that should print 1234 17:31:35 I get NIL 17:31:53 that's what it returns. 17:32:09 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:13 then 1234 is in another buffer 17:32:40 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:32:52 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 17:32:53 you can switch between editor and repl with C-x o 17:33:01 nurv101 [n=askmefor@83.240.146.205] has joined #lisp 17:33:05 caoliver [n=oliver@197-dhcp239.nmc.edu] has joined #lisp 17:33:15 this is the repl 17:33:18 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-0646c.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:34:27 GrayShade: try adding a newline 17:34:56 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:35:12 GrayShade: this will come handy soon http://www.pchristensen.com/slimecommands.pdf 17:35:16 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:35:46 it seems that choosing abort didn't work, I still get the pipelined request message 17:36:24 st3fan: it still doesn't show up, if ~% is the newline 17:36:37 should 1234 be printed in the repl? 17:36:54 yes 17:36:56 -!- st3fan [n=stefan@keizer.soze.com] has left #lisp 17:37:13 you can either type in the editor and then evaluate your forms, or you can type directly in the repl 17:37:41 I'm using the repl for now. But where's my output? : 17:37:42 ) 17:38:28 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:28 does your "reply" buffer say *slime-repl sbcl* or does it say *inferior-lisp*? 17:38:34 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:38:42 *slime-repl sbcl* 17:39:11 you killed the swank connection some how. M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp again 17:39:24 GrayShade: Look into the *inferior-lisp* buffer 17:39:46 There may be some bug in place which makes all output go to *inferior-lisp* rather than the slime repl 17:40:40 GrayShade: if you're in a hurry to learn lisp and not mess with slime, there is always the built in ilisp mode 17:40:55 tcr: it's there 17:41:11 tcr: but isn't there any way to make it show in the repl buffer? 17:41:57 GrayShade: It's a bug. At least one other implementation is also affected; I didn't know it happened for sbcl on windows, too. 17:42:19 makes more sense now 17:42:25 Anyone here from Berlin and looking for an admin? 17:42:33 (not me) 17:42:56 and the debugger thing is normal? 17:43:11 GrayShade: You obtained slime from cvs, right? 17:43:24 yes 17:43:36 not dirrectly, but I guess it's the head revision 17:43:48 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@83.240.146.205] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:43:50 Get the revision from 2008-12-30 17:45:18 what is this built in islisp mode you speak of? 17:46:21 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@74.125.59.4] has quit [] 17:48:53 tcr: as soon as I install cvs 17:50:02 GrayShade: Mind your line terminators, then. 17:50:02 debs: the lisp-mode that everybody used before slime 17:50:17 Wouldn't that be ilisp mode, not islisp mode? 17:50:35 (inferior vs. international standard) 17:50:58 oh, did i say islisp mode? no, ilisp, shipped with emacs 17:51:12 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 17:51:23 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 17:51:40 fusss: You didn't, debs did. 17:51:47 Maybe I'll try LispIDE :) 17:52:10 ilisp doesn't ship with Emacs, inf(erior)-lisp does 17:53:58 GrayShade: that would be a mistake. ilisp is right there and it's a perfect language mode. it's just that slime killed the category on emacs language support :-) 17:54:56 LispIDE is a wheel-chair ramp to lisp. Slime is the Matrix brain-socket. 17:54:56 it was a typo (islisp) 17:55:17 i spent all night fighting with my Tiger 10.4 intel mackbook trying to shove some form of sbcl or clisp onto it 17:56:14 I'm still kindof surprised that I haven't seen any real demand for working fd-streams for slime on sbcl/win32. 17:56:30 Or, rather, working serve-event. 17:56:43 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 17:56:47 fusss: the only nice thing about slime I've seen so far is the function argument tooltip 17:57:14 nyef: i didn't know we win32ers were allowed to "demand" things. 17:57:40 Sure you are! And we maintainers are allowed to tell you "patches welcome". 17:58:05 Or even, "proof of concept here, feel free to make it not suck". 17:58:55 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@197-dhcp239.nmc.edu] has left #lisp 17:59:05 it's not glitter that i wear on my eye-lashes, just dried tears. 17:59:49 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:00:08 nyef: to be honest, i prototype stuff on LW now. sure, it kills my editor every few hours, and it doesn't save settings, but .. 18:00:58 Yeah, I hear that. SBCL/Win32 just doesn't seem "ready" yet. Even with that proof-of-concept serve-event thing. 18:02:56 i was gonna use it to do an elaborate messaging system. a desktop receiver that gets called by a lisp server. scrapped the whole thing and rolled out an e-mail based thing with gmail notifier :-) 18:03:52 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:04:03 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 18:04:54 lispm [n=joswig@e177147157.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:59 added a phone solution on top as well. the server calls my mobile with updates, and it's read to me in midwestern english :-P 18:07:16 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:40 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:15:03 BrianRice [n=briantri@74.125.59.4] has joined #lisp 18:15:04 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@74.125.59.4] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:15:29 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 18:16:14 -!- homoioi [n=zc155789@nat/sun/x-a0199627ec1c0b73] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:16:32 -!- agz [n=mate@225-36.adsl.etel.hu] has left #lisp 18:16:43 homoioi [n=zc155789@nat/sun/x-d007f59f52c106c9] has joined #lisp 18:17:46 -!- atypic is now known as atypic_ 18:19:10 Grilinctus [n=Aankhen@122.162.171.149] has joined #lisp 18:22:39 disumu [n=disumu@p57A278B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:43 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 18:25:43 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:56 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.171.149] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:29:13 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 18:30:48 Does anyone know a package which can get a size of image and make thumbnail of it? 18:31:15 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.116.40] has joined #lisp 18:32:11 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 18:32:15 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.70.223] has joined #lisp 18:34:53 tomoyuki28jp: http://www.cliki.net/admin/search?words=imagemagick 18:34:57 tomoyuki28jp: imagemagick does that, and fairly efficiently too. you might want to look into image-magic bindings 18:35:16 tomoyuki28jp: cl-magick, cl-gd 18:35:40 stassats: fusss: fe[nl]ix: thanks! 18:35:54 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:00 fe[nl]ix: cl-gd is more for drawing than image manipulation, imo 18:37:00 -!- emacs-dwim [n=user@cpe-74-71-13-156.twcny.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:37:08 josemanuel [n=josemanu@191.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:38:56 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.70.223] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:39:11 Kickaha [n=Alex@67.28.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:39:35 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.70.223] has joined #lisp 18:40:28 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:40:38 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-80.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:45:09 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:45:12 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit ["restart"] 18:47:35 cl-magick doesn't have docs? What is the wand parameter? I am reading the source code. Is there any code which uses cl-magick? 18:48:20 I did try google code search, but I didn't find any. 18:48:44 my guess would be that it resembles imagemagick's api, though i havent used it 18:49:18 stassats: I see. Thanks. 18:49:52 vy [n=user@88.227.54.135] has joined #lisp 18:51:09 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb547a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:19 I use cl-gd to resize and make thumbnails for a photo-gallery app. It works fine. I don't know if cl-magick would be better. 18:51:43 cl-gd does have nice docs, though. 18:53:12 ahaas: Thanks for the info, I am taking a look at the cl-gd. Yes, it is well documented. 18:53:26 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:42 `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.207] has joined #lisp 18:54:34 I am always surprising the fact that Edi wrote so many useful libraries. 18:54:58 *nyef* wonders what a fact looks like when it's surprised. 18:55:02 it just shows what's possible if you are born awesome 18:55:38 nyef: It is probably very satisfying sight 18:55:40 "Some are born awesome, some attain awesomeness, and some have awesomeness thrust upon them"? 18:55:49 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:56 -!- Grilinctus is now known as Aankhen`` 18:57:40 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:27 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:42 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has quit [] 18:59:52 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:01:18 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.116.40] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:04:08 fr33fall [n=fr33fall@113-224-dsl.kielnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:24 a/attain/achieve/ 19:04:47 s/a/s/ 19:07:38 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.207] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:07:39 younder [i=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 19:08:15 ahaas: cl-gd works nice! 19:08:26 nyef: some people push the envelope; some lick the envelope; some cannot even find the flap. 19:08:45 fe[nl]ix: i owe you an apology then, calling GD "for drawing and not image manipulation" :-) 19:09:28 edi wasn't born awesome, "awesome" derives from edi as a mixin 19:09:28 mle: That brings some... interesting... mental images with it. 19:09:56 -!- GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.189.157] has quit [] 19:11:11 -!- Kickaha [n=Alex@67.28.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:16:26 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:55 Check out the university of Edinburogh. The informathics department 19:16:58 heh 19:17:10 -!- mle [n=emily@kuu.accela.net] has left #lisp 19:17:14 the AI bit 19:17:39 findinglisp [n=user@c-24-6-200-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:41 69 % of all advanced AI papers come from the above 19:18:51 (from FB) 19:18:55 GB 19:19:23 huh? 19:20:15 waddaya know, both Trolltech and wxWindows list "VLC" as an example of software written in them 19:20:19 -!- `m4dnificent is now known as m4dnificent 19:20:42 fusss: The VLC media player has a number of skins to its interface. 19:20:48 norway 19:21:05 trolltech that is 19:21:08 younder: you are definitely a bad AI 19:21:25 I think I will shut up now 19:21:29 he isn't, that's the sad thing 19:21:30 trolltech now owned by the Finns 19:21:37 fusss: vlc no longer uses wxwindows 19:22:05 fe[nl]ix: i wasn't sure which one it used first, but i see it now. 19:22:38 http://www.inf.ed.ac.uk/ 19:27:44 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host108-177-dynamic.51-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 19:28:26 -!- sbahra_ is now known as sbahra 19:31:43 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:12 mle [n=emily@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:46 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 19:33:27 addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 19:36:45 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:36 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:41:58 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-80.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 19:45:11 http://www.gensym.com 19:46:08 -!- fr33fall [n=fr33fall@113-224-dsl.kielnet.net] has quit [] 19:49:29 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:50:04 -!- ignas [n=ignas@158.59.224.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:36 http://www.massivesoftware.com/ 19:51:29 you promised to shut up 19:52:50 No! He contemplated shutting up "out loud." 19:53:18 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:54:02 Literal rather than idiomatic. 19:57:00 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 19:58:25 I am sorry for using you precious 'dead time' for listing a few companies ans institusions that use Lisp 20:00:16 they use lisp? 20:02:25 `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.207] has joined #lisp 20:03:19 iceyu [n=icey@97-124-34-208.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:53 dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-34-208.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:59 -!- iceyu [n=icey@97-124-34-208.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:53 punlo [n=punloh@234-119-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:12 -!- vy [n=user@88.227.54.135] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:06:46 -!- punlo [n=punloh@234-119-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 20:09:58 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:13 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 20:12:24 younder: some of us run "lisp companies" for crying out loud 20:13:53 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:13:55 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:14:00 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:14:19 nyef: http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/hacks/nes/nes-dac-plot.png (in case you're interested, and assuming my measurement approach is valid) 20:15:20 hefner: Hunh. Neat. 20:16:15 ahh, a greaph! of what? 20:16:17 -!- m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.207] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:16:38 What's the most popular cache library in cl? cl-memcached? 20:17:11 elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has joined #lisp 20:18:19 cl-ppcre 20:18:44 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A278B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:41 sigh 20:21:53 tomoyuki28jp: depends on what you're trying to "cache"; you might be able to use an in-memory object store, or your database might support some optimization 20:22:15 -!- `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.207] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22:30 fusss: yes, you are right. 20:23:52 tomoyuki28jp: if this is for web app, you might benefit from cutting down on database access AND network traffic by using a javascript client-side db. there are some :-) 20:24:24 some even use flash! (like paypal does) 20:24:33 CL webpages are typically served by persistent processes, so you don't need an external in-memory cache as much as, e.g., php. 20:25:52 It is not as distributble though.. 20:26:20 pkhuong: If we cache often used data, we less need to access to the disk. 20:27:11 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27:18 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 20:27:23 tomoyuki28jp: Yes, but it's not as simple as saying "I know, let's add a cache!" Badly designed or implemented caches can make things worse instead of better. 20:27:44 tomoyuki28jp: look into bknr, it's a transactional object store and keeps stuff in memory as well. 20:27:56 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 20:28:08 fusss: thanks for the info! 20:28:10 _8david: Iirc, you wrote some CLIMy viewer for SBCL's IR1? 20:28:44 tomoyuki28jp: That's not relevant to my point. 20:29:03 I just took a look at elephant codes, and it has own caching system. (symbol hash ables) 20:31:04 tomoyuki28jp: elephant has in-memory storage, but it can also use various backends; berkeleydb, and most other rdbmeses via clsql 20:32:27 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 20:34:54 tcr: On the subject of condition slot accessors, I'm not sure it's possible to fix the "early" versions, as the actual accessors are basically closures, and I don't think they get separate top-level-form information from their associated code-object. 20:37:22 nyef: Where is the tlf of closure set? I couldn't discover that. 20:38:10 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:38:31 postamar [n=postamar@206-248-186-48.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:36 Isn't it the same place as for the function that created the closure? 20:40:23 I meant where in the SBCL sources this is dealt with 20:41:04 debug-info.lisp, maybe? 20:41:32 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:41:48 Or maybe compiler/debug-dump.lisp. 20:42:16 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp039.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 20:42:25 A lot of this information is recorded in terms of the code-object, and closures don't have a separate code-object. 20:42:44 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:47:15 -!- Spkka [n=mois@cpe-70-114-8-234.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:48:34 -!- bhz- [n=resm@62.57.239.236.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:48:37 nyef: My guess was ir1-convert-hairy-lambda, the insertion of the *current-path* 20:48:59 bhz- [n=resm@62.57.239.236.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:43 I was looking more generally at the debug info stuff, so I figured to come at it from the bottom. 20:50:51 themachine [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:02 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp039.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:51:48 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:52:48 -!- themachine is now known as parodyoflanguage 20:54:49 nyef: debug-dump looks good 20:54:55 I'd browse through it later 20:55:01 erm I'll 20:55:32 tcr: Again, the problem is that there's only one tlf-number shared for -all- closures created via that function. 20:55:47 YAharasuf [n=YAharasu@p5483018A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:56:00 nyef: Yes, I'm thinking of a new special form, lambda-with-srcloc 20:56:06 i have some issue with lisp see this http://www.unsere-nackte-pyjamaparty.net/?id=5160358 20:56:25 YAharasuf: Fuck off. 20:56:34 http://www.unsere-nackte-pyjamaparty.net/?id=5160358 20:56:35 -!- YAharasuf [n=YAharasu@p5483018A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:41 >:( 20:56:52 aryeskan [n=arya@ip98-169-52-72.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:22 ... I'm about to be upset, aren't I? 20:57:34 just don't click on the link 20:57:46 No, not that. 20:57:53 x86 code fixups. 20:58:15 Damned things are only good for relocating the code component itself, not anything it refers to. 21:01:12 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:12 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:13 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:02:49 ... I think I can save this. Just need to change the encoding of the fixup vector. 21:03:53 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.171.149] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:04:08 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.171.149] has joined #lisp 21:05:40 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:44 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 21:07:14 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:24 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:10 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 21:18:08 -!- aryeskan [n=arya@ip98-169-52-72.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #lisp 21:20:31 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:27:35 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:27:47 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:27:48 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:19 a-s [n=user@92.80.91.38] has joined #lisp 21:29:54 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-131-127.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:29:58 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.171.149] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:30:33 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:32:01 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-229-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:33 -!- cp1134_ [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has left #lisp 21:37:06 jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 21:38:01 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.70.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:38:41 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-140-171.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:39:22 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@191.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 21:46:14 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:46:35 ginkgo [n=user@chello084113198244.17.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:52:20 feagondpt [n=feagond@dyn1230-64.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:59:54 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 22:00:24 -!- ginkgo [n=user@chello084113198244.17.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:03:14 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:43 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]"] 22:07:40 rfgpfeiffer_ [n=rfgpfeif@e178231115.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:11:56 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 22:13:57 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:38 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-229-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:22:21 -!- rfgpfeiffer [n=rfgpfeif@e178192226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:23:08 sb-walker is such a beast 22:23:12 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:37 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-79.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 22:25:56 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-229-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:15 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 22:26:26 addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 22:29:09 -!- jbmigel [n=jbm@S010600179a220e57.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:29:19 is make-method-lambda actually specified, or is it an SBCL thing? 22:29:39 (or rather, a PCL thing. 22:29:42 ) 22:29:52 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:56 Easy enough to find out: Check AMOP. 22:30:08 The specification part of which is available online. 22:30:26 nyef: well, I couldn't find it in AMOP, so I'm just checking to make sure it's not just me failing to find it (or misreading something) 22:30:32 I have a copy of AMOP in hand :P 22:32:07 you're failing to find it 22:32:21 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-68.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 22:32:37 I'll look again, then. Thanks. :-\ 22:32:59 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:33:47 however, it being specified in the amop doesn't mean that it's widely supported 22:34:23 I'm just looking to see how it works, I don't necessarily need to use it per-se 22:35:11 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 22:36:46 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:40 GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.189.157] has joined #lisp 22:38:53 why does (setf (car (car x)) 0) work? 22:39:10 Why wouldn't it? 22:39:43 it depends on what x is. 22:39:49 I wasn't expecting it. I vaguely know about the 'setf-able places' which include (car x), (caar x) and so on 22:39:54 (Alternately, it works because it is defined to work.) 22:40:28 Notice that (car x) is not part of the place (car (car x)) 22:40:43 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:40:46 (car the-value-of-|(car x)|) is the place. 22:40:50 GrayShade, if (car x) is setfable, and (car x) is a valid expression to substitute x for, (car (car x)) is also setfable 22:41:03 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:41:55 so setf is more or less recursive? 22:42:11 No, that's entirely the wrong conclusion to draw. 22:42:26 ignas [n=ignas@158.59.224.76] has joined #lisp 22:42:49 GrayShade, evaluate (car (car x)). 22:43:11 hrm. on further thought, I won't be attempting to explain this, because I can't. 22:43:42 Maybe it's time to learn about MACROEXPAND ? 22:44:09 rplaca! 22:44:16 (macroexpand '(setf (car x) 0)) => (SB-KERNEL:%RPLACA X 0) 22:44:22 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:44:33 *tcr* just taught slime's macroexpand-all to also expand compiler-macros 22:44:42 (macroexpand '(setf (car (car x)) 0)) => (SB-KERNEL:%RPLACA (CAR X) 0) 22:44:52 tcr: optionally? 22:46:00 Okay, is anyone here familiar with fasdumping and genesis? 22:46:08 you're right 22:46:38 kpreid: I haven't checked it in. I just needed it myself. 22:46:44 What I'm looking for is some way to know, at the time genesis sees a FOP-CODE or FOP-SMALL-CODE, if a code-object is for a function or for a toplevel form. 22:47:48 jsnell: hah. I was looking at the wrong appendix... 22:50:18 -!- atypic_ [i=lykkebo@tvilling2.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit ["leaving"] 22:51:48 ignas_ [n=ignas@158.59.224.76] has joined #lisp 22:54:01 nyef: it gets more interesting for (macroexpand '(setf (caar x) 0)) 22:55:06 GrayShade: So it does. But that's implementation-dependence for you. 22:55:29 GrayShade: If you're still using Slime, you can use C-c C-m to expand the form at your cursor 22:56:06 tcr: yep. 22:56:09 nyef: I see 22:57:01 well, off I go. :) 22:57:14 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.21.52] has joined #lisp 22:57:18 i find common lisp strange, though 22:58:02 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:25 -!- GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.189.157] has quit [] 23:01:11 -!- ignas [n=ignas@158.59.224.76] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:02:19 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-170.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 23:02:54 I've spent the last two hours experimenting with annotating a source buffer with information from ir1-phase. I think that's feasible even if it's not possible to get a original-source alike representation of the IR1. 23:03:13 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-138-197.vologda.ru] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:03:21 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 23:04:05 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 23:07:33 ignas__ [n=ignas@158.59.224.76] has joined #lisp 23:09:09 -!- jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:15:55 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:16:49 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:17:04 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@158.59.224.76] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:17:22 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 23:22:31 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-130-51.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:24:08 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:29:00 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-141-251.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:29:37 -!- drafael1 is now known as drafel 23:29:40 -!- drafel is now known as drafael 23:29:55 -!- ignas__ [n=ignas@158.59.224.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:33:05 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb547a.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 23:37:36 posix pthread_create 23:37:36 http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xsh/pthread_create.html 23:37:39 rfgpfeiffer [n=rfgpfeif@e178235148.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:40:40 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:44:14 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 23:52:18 HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has joined #lisp 23:53:43 -!- rfgpfeiffer_ [n=rfgpfeif@e178231115.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:54:11 -!- hdfhefgaert43t [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-682693668ef098c6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:54:56 -!- rfgpfeiffer [n=rfgpfeif@e178235148.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:55:49 jaoswald [n=user@user-12lcm4g.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:52 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:59:19 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"]