00:00:49 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-69.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:02:58 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:03:04 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 00:05:07 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:06:00 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:06:52 clhs setf 00:06:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_setf.htm 00:11:14 -!- spec[afk] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["c Ya!"] 00:13:01 gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:13:13 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C7AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:13:20 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@220.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 00:17:32 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:22:48 mansour [n=mansour@CPE0014bf895399-CM0014f8c19014.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:12 can I get executables with clisp on linux 64bit ? 00:26:16 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless93.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:26:44 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:27:46 -!- Lou__ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:28:45 -!- mansour [n=mansour@CPE0014bf895399-CM0014f8c19014.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 00:28:49 Lou__ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 00:29:10 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-128-174.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:29:28 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:51 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:18 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:32:18 tritchey__ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:25 -!- dewszaq [n=peterbb@95.34.19.45.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:35:28 dewszaq [n=peterbb@95.34.109.68.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 00:39:47 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:06 -!- Eleanore [n=a@c213-100-35-225.swipnet.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:47:20 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:48:00 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:37 mansour, I run Ubuntu 64-bit on this machine and installed clisp through aptitude with no problems. 00:51:49 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.251.48] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:52:42 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.227.1] has quit [] 00:53:26 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:58 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit ["[IRSSI]"] 00:57:22 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:00:41 -!- tritchey__ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:02:07 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:03:02 Say I have two functions defined named OP1 and OP2, as well as the list (OP1 OP2). Can I somehow evaluate this list such that the functions are called as its corresponding element in the list is evaluated? 01:03:54 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:04:30 you can make symbol macro, but why would you want this? 01:05:58 I'm trying to make a program that has a set of some simple functions and can manage a list of them to alter the order that things are done... just messing around. 01:06:39 or i didn't get you right, because your terminology sounds strange 01:06:56 well, sure you cann functions from the list 01:07:03 *can call 01:07:12 I just want to be able to execute an arbitrary list of functions. 01:07:39 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-204-206.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:07:50 I've only been working with Lisp for a few weeks, so my terminology is probably terrible. 01:08:03 (mapc #'funcall (list (lambda () (print 10)) (lambda () (print 30)))) 01:09:02 I'm just reading about mappings right now, and haven't got to lambda. I'll chew on this for a bit. 01:10:09 lambda's just a function 01:10:13 minion: PLEASE tell mokogobo about that-dead-sexy-book 01:10:14 mokogobo: have a look at that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 01:10:44 (mapc #'funcall '(op1 op2)) 01:11:22 That's what I was looking for! 01:12:11 that assumes that your functions are only meant to be used for side effects 01:12:18 and are taking no arguments 01:12:33 That will be the case for most of them. 01:12:38 -!- sysfault [i=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:12:54 minion, thanks for the link 01:12:55 np 01:13:37 (mapcar #'funcall '(+ - * /) '(2 3 4 5)) that's the case with arguments and results 01:14:04 -!- Chouser [n=chouser@pool-71-97-194-63.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 01:16:06 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:17:47 Interesting. I'll have to look up some things before I get this entirely. The general form of the expressions seem sensible to me, though. 01:18:20 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 01:19:36 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Success] 01:20:57 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:21:16 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:21:38 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 01:22:05 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:36 -!- getxsick [i=skfarek@unaffiliated/getxsick] has quit ["leaving"] 01:24:19 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-9f8efba8c893f046] has joined #lisp 01:25:18 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:10 -!- Atherton [n=atherton@mathesar.kwzs.be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:27:16 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:31:42 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:38 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 01:34:54 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:01 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 01:40:45 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #lisp 01:43:41 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:44:32 Monkeybla [n=MonkeyBl@pool-98-111-7-78.sctnpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:36 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 01:46:11 -!- Monkeybla [n=MonkeyBl@pool-98-111-7-78.sctnpa.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 01:47:15 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:51:10 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:51:14 ml`_ [n=milan@port-92-192-179-223.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:52:41 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 01:54:17 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:57:31 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 01:58:55 -!- stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:00:36 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:39 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-38-161.ucr.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:05:55 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:06 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has joined #lisp 02:07:16 -!- ml` [n=milan@port-92-192-12-128.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:07:29 woot 02:07:31 oops wrong channel 02:08:49 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:09:37 innnit [n=andre@92.1.182.206] has joined #lisp 02:09:38 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit ["brb"] 02:09:53 wow - there are a lot of you 02:14:25 for a language channel, it's actually kind of small :P 02:18:30 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:23:55 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:25:44 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:26:22 Beket [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 02:28:44 ace: this has more than c# 02:28:54 yet less than c++ :) 02:29:06 but I am surprised 02:30:10 C# on freenode? 02:30:35 -!- marco_ is now known as mooglenorph 02:30:49 (tbh, i wouldn't be surprised...most people from freenode hate MS and MS has had their hands in C# since birth, so...yea) 02:31:15 ace: i dont know what node i'm on here 02:31:25 lol... 02:31:31 ace4016, maybe the mono people? 02:31:39 ace: once I open more than one I get lost 02:31:46 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:32:23 possibly 02:33:43 so what's lisp used for and who is using it? 02:34:03 it used to be AI and stuff 02:34:33 so i guess its still academic 02:34:46 + emacs 02:34:48 i think it was always used for various things, just had it's popularity in AI (like java in web apps) 02:34:49 :D hehe 02:35:30 a few games used lisp, some websites used lisp for the back end...a few cad apps use lisp as a scripting language and such... 02:36:31 innnit: Orbitz runs on lisp, too. 02:36:47 syko: whats that? 02:37:04 innnit: http://www.orbitz.com/ This orbitz. 02:37:16 it's as academic as any other language 02:37:33 Common Lisp is pretty far from an academic language, considering it was born in industry. 02:37:49 syko: holidays? 02:38:11 innnit: yes. It's a pretty major site. 02:38:17 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139] has joined #lisp 02:38:31 skyo: fair enough 02:38:55 but Lisp has trouble finding itself in huge projects, mostly because huge projects need huge funding, and huge funding is what big corporations use. 02:39:48 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 02:41:16 anyone got shrdlu running? 02:41:31 .... ever? 02:44:33 innnit, The original system was implemented in MacLisp. This channel is common-lisp centric. Common lisp is a much more recent lisp dialect. 02:45:09 moogle: i see 02:46:10 innnit, Also, shrdlu (and the whole class of systems that it represents) are really no longer of much interest to the AI people (who these days mostly call themselves "machine learning" people) 02:47:00 funny, that. AI people produce one really impressive demo, call it a day, and spend the next thirty years playing with statistics instead. 02:47:53 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-8523845c4a7061a5] has left #lisp 02:49:31 hefner, at least for natural language and vision tasks, I've always been told that stochastic methods are more effective? 02:50:21 I think the machine instruction FDIV is serious quality AI 02:51:23 ;) 02:52:25 mooglenorph: heyas 02:52:33 syamajala, sup 02:52:38 whoops 02:52:44 sykopomp, hey 02:52:56 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@140.122.126.12] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:53:49 sykopomp, (because I have no willpower, I and re-reading the shrdlu tech report) 02:54:22 mooglenorph: how's the semester coming along? 02:54:31 sykopomp, fantastically badly 02:54:44 mooglenorph: ouch. What gives? 02:55:12 sykopomp, started off on the wrong foot. being ill for the first day or so of class wasn't fun. 02:57:05 sykopomp, also, I'm in two classes that I didn't really take the first class for. Which is cool, but I obviously need to put in more work. 02:57:30 mooglenorph: heh. Good luck. I ended up failing all my umass classes last semester. It was really sad. 02:57:53 sykopomp, that's really unfortunate :-\ 02:58:09 sykopomp, are you taking this semester off now? 02:58:50 mooglenorph: yup. I'm just going to enjoy being out of school for the first time in my life. 02:59:10 sykopomp, amen to that. I'm *never* going to be out of school :-) 02:59:28 mooglenorph: ouch :P 02:59:46 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:00:29 mooglenorph: I started off the semester by writing this http://github.com/sykopomp/sheeple/tree/master 03:01:12 sykopomp, this is sweet 03:01:55 mooglenorph: it's really fun to play with. I'm porting its backend to elephant (when I get that working...) and using it for all game-objects in sykosomatic :) 03:02:05 Awesome! 03:02:07 super-scriptable game world. Hell yeah. 03:02:18 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:02:23 Do you need a whuffie implementation yet? 03:02:48 mooglenorph: not yet, but I wonder how much of it can actually get done without having sykosomatic done. 03:03:18 Well, when you do need one (or any RSS inegration madness) just ask me. 03:03:23 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:03:30 Certainly, it's worth starting work on. I put some work into the game's event system this week, and into the client-stuff architecture (you can plug in multiple different servers to the backend and treat them all with a common interface) 03:03:38 sweet. I will. 03:04:02 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:04:03 By the way, I'll ask again before the next lisp meeting if you still want to come along. Last one was fun. 03:04:47 Ugh. I've been trying to get to a lisp meeting for ages. 03:04:55 hee :P 03:05:18 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A093F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:06:14 it was kind of funny. Ian and I went, and a group of us went to dinner. Daniel Weinreb was there, and he was particularly great. There was just casual hackery conversation, and he would just randomly go like "Yeah, back when I was in symbolics, we did this and that" 03:06:27 sykopomp, dude your naming conventions are hilarious 03:06:45 mooglenorph: hah 03:08:42 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:11:12 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 03:12:00 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:06 good evening 03:12:12 yo fusss 03:12:17 Hello fusss. 03:12:51 sykopomp: figured out that elephant problem yet? 03:13:03 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.17] has joined #lisp 03:13:37 fusss: nope, not at all. I tried everything: 0.9, 0.91, 1.0 release, 1.0 patched, and -unstable. 03:13:51 oh, and two different versions of bdb 03:14:15 I wonder whether I'm being an idiot, or whether they just don't test the db creation part very often. 03:14:35 sqlite backend should be light and fairly transparent; elephant will do the object storage problem for ya. i'm setting up later tonight. 03:14:40 ... Shouldn't such a fundamental operation be in the test suite? 03:14:47 it is 03:15:00 the test suite fails. First thing. 03:15:06 (I tried that) 03:15:15 Impressive. 03:15:39 big red flag then. you might be eligible for a free bug report! 03:15:44 also, loading the .asd fails the first time through, and I have to compile several files manually :-\ 03:16:05 fusss: I'm tempted to, but I want to make sure I'm not being an idiot first. This is pretty fundamental and I err on the side of "I'm doing it wrong" 03:16:12 i'm setting it up now, the latest version. will keep you posted. 03:16:25 are you on linux, sbcl, x86? 03:16:43 (that's my setup, I've tried db4.5 as well as 4.7) 03:16:46 Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:22 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:17:37 -!- Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:17:41 Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:18:06 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:28 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has joined #lisp 03:19:59 asdf-install still fetches 0.9, i'm really tempted to edit the cliki link but i'm not sure if the developers are deliberately keeping the latest version out of cliki 03:20:26 *nyef* is struck by the sudden realization that trends in jigsaw puzzle aspect ratios seem to follow the trends in computer display aspect ratios. 03:21:00 (This realization based on a sample size of two puzzles that appear to have a widescreen-like aspect ratio.) 03:21:04 fusss: can you try pulling things with clbuild? 03:21:21 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:26 actually, nevermind. Just do it your way. I'll do whatever works for you :P 03:22:24 nyef: don't expect doors to follow suit 03:23:10 innnit: Of course not. They stopped making music ages back. 03:23:16 nyef: the end times are upon us!! 03:23:21 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:23:59 nyef: i didn't notice any music 03:24:18 innnit: Then why'd you mention the doors? 03:25:01 nyef: I believe he's talking about doors for some reason. The kind you open, enter, and close. 03:25:13 -!- Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 03:25:15 Some doors have advanced technology that prevent easy entry, known as 'locks' 03:25:25 but I don't really understand the concept. It's sort of like continuations. 03:25:48 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 03:26:53 goddamn slime. I enable this stupid redirect IO business, and in exchange it now blows up if I accidentally "M-x slime" when it's already running. 03:27:32 hefner: so it does! hah 03:28:56 ..which is even more annoying than having to go look in *inferior-lisp* when I'm debugging threads. 03:29:22 hefner: I've never had to M-x slime while it runs. It's weird :P 03:29:56 sometimes I'm not explicitly hacking lisp and just want to add some numbers or the like, so am not sure if it is running. I've done it several times in the last few days. 03:30:39 (or in the instance, I just grabbed the nearest emacs window, where I actually was hacking lisp) 03:30:53 oh well, easily worked around. 03:32:20 +1 for 'add some numbers'; i write my html in cl-who then paste into php sources ;-) 03:32:34 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.2] has joined #lisp 03:32:49 slime+cl-who is the best emacs mode for html 03:33:48 interesting. in this case, I wanted to pass a list of numbers through remove-duplicates before plotting it in octave 03:34:01 (although come to think of it, there's a matlab command for that which I can't quite remember) 03:34:07 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:40:07 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:40:16 sykopomp: elephant download is broken in clbuild for me "cat: elephant/_darcs/prefs/defaultrepo: No such file or directory". trying manual install. 03:40:29 bah. 03:42:21 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:42:36 g'day 03:43:13 yes another cl blog example, http://common-lisp.net/project/elephant/darcs/elephant-1.0/examples/hunchentoot-blog.lisp :-P 03:43:16 hey schmx 03:43:29 -!- schmx is now known as schme 03:46:07 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:46:58 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:47:18 EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 03:47:20 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:41 mansour [n=mansour@CPE0014bf895399-CM0014f8c19014.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:52:01 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:52:12 sykopomp: have you tried bknr maybe? 03:52:25 manuel_: yeah. I like bknr a lot, but I can't use it. 03:52:34 oh, why? 03:52:56 1. the app is threaded. 2. I don't have enough space in my -own- machine to have the thing up and running. 03:53:42 it should run with threaded apps, it just puts a big ock on the datastore :) 03:53:46 robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has joined #lisp 03:53:46 I did an initial prototype using bknr, and it was pretty fantastic though. Would definitely use it if my objects didn't have such a massive amount of data in them. 03:53:54 ah i see yes 03:54:06 cool :} 03:54:15 lots of slots with long strings, and lots of objects which themselves have lots of strings in them :P 03:54:23 whee 03:54:38 what kind f data is that? 03:54:40 -!- robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:54:52 manuel_: game objects in a MUD. 03:54:55 robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has joined #lisp 03:55:05 oh a big MUD then? 03:55:18 how many MBs is that? 03:55:34 big objects, at least. It doesn't take a lot of objects to fill my 2GB of RAM. 03:55:46 uh, funky 03:56:06 I can't remember exactly. I ran the bknr stuff months ago, before I started working on other parts of the game. I think it's a few hundred K per object? 03:56:10 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 03:56:18 that's a little surprising 03:56:29 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:56:32 because every detail on the object is another game-object, and stuff's pretty detailed. 03:56:34 what's in your objects? 03:56:40 lots and lots of strings. 03:56:52 and other objects 03:56:56 and details on the details 03:56:56 etc 03:57:39 a few thousand objects (maybe 10k?) is enough to blow it over, and a dozen players can probably generate that by themselves, not counting rooms, mobs, etc. 03:58:04 ouch 03:58:09 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:58:09 manuel_: I'm surprised you say it's fine threaded. I remember h4ns warning me to stay away from threads when using bknr 03:58:22 -!- robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:58:25 yeah maybe there's trouble though 03:58:36 i remember we were running cmucl at the time 03:58:51 i'm using it threaded right now but it's very low on object creation 03:59:17 but we had this big lock i remember that, so in the end it wasnt threaded at all for trasnsactions 03:59:27 ah 04:00:36 sykopomp: is elephant finding my-config.sexp file for you? i just had to hack the elephant.asd file and put an absolute file name in it to make it work again 04:01:10 robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has joined #lisp 04:01:22 fusss: yes, it's finding the my-config.sexp (I know because I forgot to rename it to that, and got an error about not finding it) 04:03:01 -!- robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:03:05 /usr/local/lib/sbcl/elephant/libmemutil.so not found in elephant root 04:03:30 robsynnot [n=irchon@mobileinternet2.o2.ie] has joined #lisp 04:03:34 fusss: weird. How did you install elephant? 04:03:55 this is the one i always used with the sqlite backend 04:04:11 heh 04:04:37 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:05:29 Good morning. 04:05:39 mornin' beach. Wow, so late already? 04:06:27 GOT IT! 04:06:36 fusss: :(((( 04:06:51 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:07:07 and build it goes! 04:07:14 OK, so who made the decision to take SBCL_HOME from the path of the core file? It cost me a few hours of work yesterday. 04:08:01 what on earth is the "site" directory? /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site? I keep everything in /usr/local/lib/sbcl, and i have symlinks to all the asdf in site-systems. never knew of "site" itself. 04:08:19 -!- robsynnot [n=irchon@mobileinternet2.o2.ie] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:08:35 fusss: When you install something "system-wide" via asdf-install, it ends up in site/, with the .asd files symlinked from site-systems/. 04:08:49 oh 04:09:14 That's with stock SBCL asdf-install, at least. Not sure about other versions. 04:09:45 i have used asdf-install only in a few lazy instances. everything in site was already in my sbcl root! there are copies of them in my ~/clbuild as well. 04:09:50 fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:58 i use stock sbcl everything when i can 04:10:00 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 04:10:19 what is 'stock' ? 04:10:50 fph: Unmodified. No after-market add-ons or dealer customizations. 04:10:53 dyCrazyEd [n=CrazyEdd@220-253-52-3.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:10:54 sykopomp: it should work for you too mate! 04:11:15 fusss: exactly which version did you try to run? Also, did you try loading up BDB? Making a new database? 04:11:18 that's the part that's failing. 04:11:21 wow, you mean I can get it lowered with side-pipes? 04:11:29 also, which version of sbcl do you have? 04:11:44 -!- dyCrazyEd is now known as CrEddy 04:11:47 fusss pasted "elephant, the four lines" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74852 04:12:13 sykopomp: the one i built last night, 1.0.25 04:12:25 :( 04:12:44 which elephant, again? 04:13:26 fusss pasted "my-config.sexp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74853 04:13:39 0.9 04:13:43 the one in cliki 04:13:43 *nyef* is still running SBCL 1.0.11, and doesn't see any reason to upgrade at this point. 04:14:26 nyef: running bleeding edge allows you to bitch with credibility to people who don't care 04:15:09 epeen 04:15:24 fusss: So? 04:16:52 urk 04:16:56 nyef: like he said, epeen (had to google that one ;-) 04:17:03 heh 04:17:04 fusss: no go 04:17:20 what errors are you getting? 04:17:43 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:39 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:21:07 two essential steps is that you create the directory where bdb is gonna store the database first (make sure your permissions are fudged, say, due to a bad umask) and just to be sure pass an absolute path to OPEN-STORE 04:22:13 sykopomp pasted "elephant hates me" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74854 04:23:23 elephant hates me too. or Mac OS X 04:23:57 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:24:17 I was never able to compile it. 04:24:26 fusss: both of which were made, yes. And double-checked. I tried with and without a trailing / too, in case that had anything to do with it. 04:24:30 just to be sure, can you see if the files in your my-config.sexp are really there? 04:25:27 fusss: definitely there. Not symlinks. 04:25:32 instead of (require 'elephant) try to be explicit about the backend (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :ele-bdb) 04:26:44 fusss: same thing 04:27:43 is it really saying "invalid number of arguments: 1"? 04:27:53 yes 04:28:08 it's -actually- being called with only one argument, yet it's defined as a two-arg function. 04:28:19 I half-assume there's some backend magic going on there, since it's a uffi thing 04:28:48 but it's kind of hard to miss. The definition for %db-env-create and the one for db-env-create (where the previous is called) are right next to each other :| 04:29:12 and this seems to be in pretty much all versions that I can remember. I have no idea why it's there. 04:29:29 what version of elephant is this again? 04:29:37 all 04:29:43 well, I'm not sure about 0.9 04:29:56 but 0.91, 1.0, 1.0 tagged, and ele-unstable 04:29:58 all have this 04:30:21 let me double-check 0.91 again, just to make sure. 04:30:39 just 0.9, the one in asdf-install/cliki 04:33:20 reloading 0.9 to test 04:34:16 aujgoljkf [n=awefawe@host100.190-137-19.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:35:19 fusss: ahh... it's a different error 04:35:23 mrsolo__ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:28 what is it? 04:36:07 Help! 11 nested errors. SB-KERNEL:*MAXIMUM-ERROR-DEPTH* exceeded. 04:36:07 0: (SB-DEBUG::MAP-BACKTRACE #)[:EXTERNAL] .... and so on 04:36:20 also, this is in the REPL, not sldb 04:36:47 wow! 04:36:57 this is after doing (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'ele-bdb) 04:37:12 as well as after trying to just do open-store (which loads ele-bdb) 04:37:15 :| 04:37:52 i have heard great things about rucksack. 04:38:03 :-P 04:38:04 :( 04:39:38 rucksack was set aside for awhile 04:40:15 itdilbe fun. debugging that is. try to mess with it in a slime buffer so you don't get burned out too quick with the lack of history and completion .. 04:41:20 fph: isn't it picking up steam lately? 04:41:34 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:41:43 saw someplace that author did not have time to push it forward 04:42:07 cl-prevalence seems to be hot, but only a few can run it 04:43:15 cl-prevalence suffers from the same issue as bknr (bknr is damn hot, imo) 04:43:16 do you really need persistance, or is serialization sufficient? 04:43:31 I need multithreaded, complete persistence 04:43:44 need or want? :-P 04:43:53 need :) 04:44:07 how about a pony? 04:44:15 I like ponies. 04:44:25 I'll take one too, if you have it. 04:44:59 -!- Pegazus [n=awefawe@host100.190-137-19.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:45:42 -!- voidpointer [n=voidpoin@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has quit ["leaving"] 04:46:28 cornify should provide link submission that shows the target site in an iframe, totally cornified! 04:48:02 .. 04:48:44 hefner: the alternative to using something like a database as a backend is nasty enough to set up that I'd rather spend time getting elephant up and running. 04:48:46 cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:49:32 although it's funny how common that alternative happens to be in the mud world. 04:49:37 this sounds terribly interesting, and I can only dream of having such challenging problems to solve. 04:50:05 the db route is ok, it's well known and serves to get something in-place 04:50:12 improvements in later times 04:50:21 hefner: Heh. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to sound like a stupid newbie. If I am, please tell. I'll make my way out of here and leave you be :) 04:50:50 as it is, I'm screwing around trying to compensate for the nonlinearity of the NES's DAC (upon hearsay, because I'm currently too lazy to measure it) 04:52:30 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:53:10 i'm developing a cornify and twitter mashup that is going to replace Reuters, Getty and Dunkin Donuts .. and make millions in AdSense 04:54:06 clhs defstruct 04:54:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defstr.htm 04:54:32 *hefner* kicks fusss 04:57:00 hefner: nonlinear, or just filtered? 04:58:58 or did you mean the video? 05:01:13 sorry, the audio. nonlinearity in how the channels are mixed (if you trust the equations from random text files, anyway). although some filtering in the real hardware wouldn't be surprising either. 05:02:30 If one of those files is from kevtris, it's reliable. 05:04:12 hrm, my memory of this is poor, but isn't it two square, one triangle, and noise? unless you're fiddling with volume to make waves or using that weird DMA thing 05:04:21 they should all be a simple electrical add 05:04:50 There's also a straight-up level-set on the DMC channel, IIRC. 05:05:54 -!- tessier__ [n=treed@wsip-68-15-4-27.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 05:05:55 yeah, I have a nice long loop banging on the dac register at 30 khz. It sounds nice, but there's some distortion. 05:06:23 Haven't found many emulators that handle that correctly... you're working on real hardware then? 05:07:04 hm, if the dmc is not centered you may be getting clipping? 05:08:09 *nyef* remembers spending a few days trying to get the noise channel on his sn76489 emulation working right... Fire up Zillion on the SMS, listen very carefully to the noise of the guy crawling and the explosion sound, then do the same in the emulator, then try to figure out why they didn't sound the same... 05:08:27 well.. er.. normally, yeah, but I can't program an eprom this big at the moment, so I can only test on emulators. 05:08:58 "This big"? 05:09:48 the audio loop is 240 kilobytes. my programmer is about twenty years old, and it can only handle up to 27512s, so as it happens, I haven't heard this exact test on the real hardware. 05:10:48 what I guess I'll do is write some little sawtooth tests and record their output from the real hardware, but I haven't done it yet because the NES is not in the same room as the computer. 05:10:51 240k? Wow. 05:11:20 I wanted something I could listen to for a while. It's an 8 second loop from a song. 05:11:26 Ahh. 05:11:32 -!- innnit [n=andre@92.1.182.206] has left #lisp 05:11:35 you Could go for a lower rate 05:11:47 or a shorter sample, yeah 05:12:21 eh, longest sample I've done on nes was... 2 minutes 9 seconds 05:12:31 good lord 05:12:36 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #lisp 05:12:41 through the dmc? 05:12:46 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:12:47 emulated of course, and using a very obscure mapper 05:13:04 i believe so... looking for the source 05:13:14 It'd have to be an obscure mapper to support that much data. 05:14:06 I thought the largest carts were 8 megabit -at worst-, and the one cart believed to be so large was a bad dump of a 4 megabit game? 05:14:16 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:27 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:15:50 yeah, DW4 05:17:24 the wonderfully backward thing about this is that I only hear the distortion on my own emulator, so it might be a bug there (but either way, I have to figure it out) 05:17:26 elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has joined #lisp 05:17:56 nyef: used the namcot 106 (mapper 19) 05:18:55 which can address 8k * 256 05:19:13 Ah. One of the ones I never implemented. 05:19:20 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:19:33 or 16 megabit without even counting vrom :p 05:20:55 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D321.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:21:11 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1DC17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:13 I've never played any of the (very few) games that use it, but it was a Very easy mapper to use for absurd quantities of data. 05:21:32 -!- mrsolo__ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:24:37 Hrm... This version of DarcNES that I'm looking at has the Pro Action Rocky as mapper 16, and doesn't contain any of the hacking for the DrPCJr. 05:25:43 -!- fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 05:26:41 I have mapper16 as Bandai's thing 05:27:08 from "Comprehensive NES Mapper Document v0.70 by \Firebug\ (lavos@bellsouth.net)" 05:27:13 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.17] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:27:20 anyone with a chronotrigger name couldn't be all bad :p 05:27:50 Yeah, in all fairness, it was a mapper number I hadn't implemented, and I think ccovell picked it anyway when he dumped the ROM. It's not like it was going to be shared widely. 05:28:48 bleh, this is why numeric mappers is a bad idea 05:29:17 Hence the .unf (UNIF) file format specification. 05:29:40 yeop 05:29:57 last i checked unif didn't generally support namcot 106 though 05:34:19 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:34:40 i rather doubt real namcot 106's had that addressing range anyway 05:35:01 Indeed. There are rather a few mappers that are implemented well over spec. 05:36:31 vanLiempt [n=Bevinvan@XPLR-TS-10-VAN-67-201-133-74.barrettxplore.com] has joined #lisp 05:37:19 just for fun, my audio test is at http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/hacks/nes/dithered.nes 05:37:57 it sounds right on my nestopia, fceu, and my own emulator (guess we all read the same text file), but distorted on nintendulator 05:38:18 As fascinating as this conversation is, I would like to try and get more than five hours of sleep tonight, so I'm going to sign off. 05:38:22 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["g'night all."] 05:38:39 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:39:41 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:39:50 -!- aujgoljkf [n=awefawe@host100.190-137-19.telecom.net.ar] has left #lisp 05:42:07 hefner: will give it a shot when I get a working emulator again... it's been a while 05:47:32 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:48:04 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:22 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 05:49:31 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:49:37 cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 05:50:05 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075691pcs.unl.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:51:27 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:53:55 binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 06:05:55 -!- drafael [n=quassel@ip-118-90-133-238.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:06:18 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:25 slyrus_ 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MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:09:55 umis [n=umis@82.193.124.116.ipnet.kiev.ua] has joined #lisp 08:10:06 sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 08:10:28 Beket [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 08:11:02 Hello 08:12:11 zorgzorg2 [i=marra@130.236.136.254] has joined #lisp 08:12:24 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 08:13:43 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4fab.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:18:11 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:21:26 addled [n=addled@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 08:23:46 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.17] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 08:24:19 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:25 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:26:25 reaver__ [n=reaver@h69e.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:29:39 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 08:31:24 eevar2 [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:31:59 Is there a standard condition that can be handled when there is "no applicable method"? 08:33:03 doesn't seem to be, no 08:33:58 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:34:58 brandelune [n=suzume@pl080.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:35:08 You could write a method for no applicable method which signaled a condition 08:36:04 Oops! A quite obvious/trivial solution. Thanks. 08:37:40 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:38:48 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:40:43 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:43:41 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.17] has joined #lisp 08:45:16 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 08:45:52 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Success] 08:46:21 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087CCE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:52:09 first incident of lisp debugging by phone! 08:52:56 using format to space out words in a generated xml so the machine reader can pronounce it better on the phone :-P 08:54:33 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:31 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:04:53 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 09:05:51 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 09:08:32 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:08:34 -!- HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:17:55 -!- mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 09:18:48 mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:30 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:38 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:23:54 gdmfsob [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 09:24:48 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:26:40 -!- fualo [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has quit [] 09:28:23 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:29:17 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 09:30:54 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 09:31:56 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 09:32:59 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:33:54 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:34:20 krimpet [i=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has joined #lisp 09:38:03 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 09:39:47 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-79.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:42:44 -!- zorgzorg2 [i=marra@130.236.136.254] has left #lisp 09:44:44 -!- krimpet [i=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:47:12 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-204-206.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 09:47:42 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.17] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:51:09 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:51:32 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.17] has joined #lisp 09:53:06 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.231.72] has joined #lisp 09:56:15 Is complexity of NCONC'ing two lists of size M and N in given order respectively O(M)? 09:57:31 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 09:58:17 sounds right 09:59:15 unless the implemention saves the last element as an optimization 09:59:31 what does the spec say about that? 10:00:03 drdo: saves where? 10:00:31 doesn't matter, there could be some kind of internal representation 10:01:36 internal representation of what? 10:01:41 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-243-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:48 of a list? 10:02:08 wow, that was some expensive debugging. $0.50 per recompile :-P 10:02:09 yeah, there are cons cells 10:02:23 *fusss* is playing with a voip api from cl :-) 10:02:51 cmm: yeah... and what stops them from implementing cons like that? 10:02:58 and an optimization of a kind you are talking about would mean storing the last cons of a list in *each* of the other conses comprising the same list 10:03:08 yup 10:03:19 which sounds... impractical 10:03:27 -!- gdmfsob is now known as mishok13 10:03:30 Yeah, even a pessimisation. 10:03:39 haha :) 10:04:14 And still, nconcing would be O(M) as every celle would have to be updated. 10:06:07 and (setf cdr) would have arbitrary complexity 10:06:26 bash more! :D 10:09:41 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:12:07 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 10:13:58 -!- drafael [n=quassel@ip-118-90-133-238.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:16:17 -!- Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:16:39 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 10:17:52 how does one deal with struct padding issues in define-primitive-object? 10:18:12 knowing the platform and the compiler and adding #!+alpha (padding)? 10:20:14 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:20:28 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-9f8efba8c893f046] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:21:02 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:23:09 -!- Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [K-lined] 10:23:26 krimpet [i=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has joined #lisp 10:26:27 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:28:28 -!- krimpet [i=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:34:44 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.164.244] has joined #lisp 10:40:30 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:41:01 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:42:13 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 10:45:59 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA78D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:46:03 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0F555.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:46:06 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 10:46:18 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 10:46:29 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0F555.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:27 kiuma [n=kiuma@83.103.127.195] has joined #lisp 10:51:54 hello lispers 10:53:12 Guest48874 [i=hello@59-114-48-177.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:56 -!- Guest48874 [i=hello@59-114-48-177.dynamic.hinet.net] has left #lisp 10:53:57 appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:55:21 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.164.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:58:53 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:52 drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:01:47 voidpointer [n=voidpoin@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has joined #lisp 11:03:49 (with-voice-xml (with-response (:say "hello kiuma"))) 11:04:13 heh 11:04:29 is there an tag? 11:06:06 (claw-html:div> :id "fusss" (claw-html:b> "HELLO!")) 11:06:29 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:06:53 hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279440276.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:07:11 ferhiord [n=ferhiord@xaionaro2.static.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:08:52 brb 11:08:58 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 11:09:06 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["terminal font color change"] 11:09:20 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 11:10:25 i have a _very_ stupid question: how to run program whis clisp ( i could compile it bytecode, but cannot run :) ) 11:10:55 ferhiord: you start clisp, load the compiled files and then call the entry point function 11:11:11 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.162] has joined #lisp 11:11:17 ferhiord: you can achive all that using command line arguments. write a wrapper shell script if you need to start the program from the command line. 11:11:36 can i built executable? 11:11:39 ferhiord: if the startup time bothers you, you can save an image. 11:12:03 ferhiord: why do you want that? 11:13:15 i think it's comfortable 11:13:15 ferhiord: in the "can i build executables" respect, lisp is similar to python, perl or ruby. it needs a large runtime, and the most natural operating mode is to just load your own programs into that runtime. 11:14:11 how to load source code whis lisp? 11:14:22 or bytecode 11:14:38 ferhiord: look in the clisp manual, it describes all the command line options available. 11:14:41 whit python it is very easy 11:14:54 *whis 11:15:00 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279775717.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:15:01 "with" 11:15:27 o, yeh, sorry :) 11:15:31 ferhiord: http://www.cliki.net/Creating%20Executables 11:17:35 -!- drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:20:22 ferhiord: You might be interested in ecl. 11:23:03 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:23:51 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 11:24:59 benny [n=benny@i577A0CBA.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:33 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FFEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:27 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:36 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:34:46 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:50 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-71-165-20-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:37:36 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 11:37:41 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has left #lisp 11:38:00 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:04 -!- ferhiord [n=ferhiord@xaionaro2.static.corbina.ru] has quit ["+++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++++>+++++++++>+++<<<<-]>.>.>++.>."] 11:39:04 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:22 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.161.162] has quit [] 11:49:35 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:50:50 drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:51:06 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:52:05 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:54:14 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 11:54:22 jonathon` [n=user@c-69-242-62-236.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:44 lispm [n=joswig@e177154242.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:18 I have a basic question about the internals of a lisp implementation. 11:55:21 nice ILC poster: http://www.international-lisp-conference.org/2009/announce/LISP50_Poster_legal.pdf 11:55:54 Do most of them use lookup tables for the core functionality of functions like CAR and CDR? 11:56:59 jonathon`: do you have a Common Lisp system? 11:57:05 I'm reading some simple CL and Scheme interpreters, and most of them have a huge swich statement or jump table for the basic stuff, then build on that. 11:57:29 But I'm wondering if CMUCL/SBCL/LW use a more advanced method. 11:57:45 car and cdr are just functions, same as any other, in those systems 11:57:50 Yeah, I've been working with SBCL for a few years. 11:58:12 also, interpreting and compiling are different things 11:58:14 write a function foo, then (disassemble #'foo) 11:58:26 aja_ [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:28 so you need to be more specific than just "the internals" 11:58:30 I'm just digging into the source of some much simpler interpreters. 11:59:29 if it is a built in, it will be either called through the symbol, the function object itself or it will be inlined 11:59:31 Ok, let's see if I can be more specific. I have a few very simple interpreters like slisp, mostly just for seeing how they work. 12:00:30 And this one has a big jump table to handle most of the basic functions.... so it looks up CAR, CDR, +, -, etc. 12:01:01 Do more advanced systems have a better way of doing this than a jump table of functions and tokens? 12:01:25 jonathon`: you are aware that a compiler and an interpreter work differently? 12:01:30 jonathon`: by compiling it into machine code with whatever that system uses for calling convention? 12:02:02 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:02:26 also, functions are not typically the things that the interpreter handles differently: normal interpreters handle special operators distinctly, and all functions in a single case (using apply or its local equivalent) 12:02:41 Yes, definitely. So skip the compiler version, I'm just talking about the interpreter ATM. 12:02:56 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:56 so, there will typically be some kind of dispatch over special operators (e.g. IF, PROGN, CATCH, RETURN-FROM), but all functions will be treated in one fell swoop 12:03:57 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:04:18 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:04:50 well, one option would be to fire up a lookup table, or use some kind of bytecode (for example, an in-memory tree representation of computation) with function calls already resolved into pointers 12:05:02 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 12:06:06 For example, I'm reading over the REPL code in slisp, and if item entered is of type CONS, there is a huge switch statement to handle the most basic functions like IF, LAMBDA, QUOTE, then higher functions are built on this one. 12:06:20 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:06:25 jonathon`: common lisp is mostly compiled nowadays. i don't think that the interpreters in those implementations received the amount of attention that the compilers received. 12:06:37 jonathon`: so what is it that you're really asking? 12:06:47 So I'm wondering if more advanced Lisp implementations have a more advanced REPL loop method for handling those primitive functions. 12:06:54 -!- drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:06:57 jonathon`: they have compilers. 12:07:10 jonathon`: and I've already told you that IF, LAMBDA and QUOTE are not functions 12:07:12 Maybe that's the key, and no one really interprets anymore. :] 12:07:30 does rewriting the code into some kind of internal representation counts as interpretation or compilation? 12:07:30 jonathon`: they compile the forms that are entered in the repl. no interpreter is used by default, and some implementations don't have an interpreter at all. 12:07:48 the compiler will have a big switch statement, of course 12:07:56 I guess what I'm trying to do is understand a simple interpreter, and then work my way up to higher implementations. 12:07:58 (if (eq (car form) 'if) (compile-if form) ...) 12:08:12 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit [Client Quit] 12:08:22 because fundamentally something is going to have to decide what kind of form something is 12:08:43 (by all means replace a "switch statement" with a "jump table" or whatever, but something has to look at what the form is to know what to do with it.) 12:08:49 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177154242.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 12:09:27 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:09:37 ExtreTux [n=angel@42.Red-88-3-241.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:23 Ok, so the simple answer is there has to be a low-level switch and/or jump table for the special operators, then. 12:11:55 jonathon`: from a compiler/interpreter source perspective, yes - the compiler/interpreter may use whatever technique it deems appropriate to make the dispatch fast, of course. 12:12:46 jonathon`: Why not use a single lookup method for current scope? Without "outside" recognition of special/normal form etc. 12:12:59 there needs to be some distinction in behaviour somewhere for things which behave differently 12:13:09 does that sound like a tautology? I hope it is sufficiently bloody obvious 12:13:34 Xof: I mean that the lookup would pass control to proper handling method 12:13:57 Ok, I'm going to browse a few other implementations and see what I find. 12:13:57 and how would it determine the proper handling method? 12:13:59 Thanks.... 12:14:02 \q 12:14:09 -!- jonathon` [n=user@c-69-242-62-236.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:15:18 Xof: we have a symbol at the beginning of a form. we fire up lookup for that symbol and pass the rest of the form to the function that is returned from lookup table/tree/whatever 12:16:09 I don't know what you're trying to argue 12:16:30 Xof: You asked me "and how would it determine the proper handling method?" 12:20:24 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-243-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:20:34 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-243-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:41 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:21:32 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 12:22:28 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:23:19 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 12:24:15 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:25:06 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 12:25:06 drdo````` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 12:25:49 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 12:26:02 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:27:04 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 12:27:59 -!- Lou__ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:28:01 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:29:04 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 12:29:43 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:30:00 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:30:12 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:30:29 -!- segv_ is now known as segv 12:31:07 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 12:32:03 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:32:23 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 12:32:36 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:32:55 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 12:33:11 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:33:42 robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has joined #lisp 12:34:49 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-34-208.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:36:10 dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-34-208.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:52 Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:26 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087CCE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:51 -!- robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has quit [] 12:40:19 sqvirt [n=sqvirt@c-71-227-248-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:20 -!- drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:40:54 -!- sqvirt [n=sqvirt@c-71-227-248-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:41:02 sqvirt [n=sqvirt@c-71-227-248-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:43 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 12:42:05 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:43 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:44:23 Hello, friends. 12:44:31 Xach: re 12:44:38 I currently have a Lisp program that sends messages to a VB program, (it sends s expression lists that contain some integer and floating point data). The VB program is parsing these very slowly. I was thinking that I might want to send the data in a raw binary format that the VB program can just allocate RAM for and make a pointer to, and the data will all be in the right place already.) It doesn't seem that hard to produce that kind 12:44:39 of output to a stream when we are talking about integers, but the floating point data is a bit harder. Any ideas on how to go about doing this? 12:44:40 Anyone interested in splitting a room and sharing the cost for ILC09? 12:45:05 robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has joined #lisp 12:45:17 sqvirt: there is a library to produce the binary representation of ieee- floats 12:45:20 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:23 sqvirt: it is called something like ieee-floats 12:45:35 Xach: thanks! That should help a lot. 12:46:34 http://www.cliki.net/ieee-floats is it 12:46:37 -!- robsynnot [n=irchon@89.100.144.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:46:49 I've used it to load and store floats on disk for various file formats 12:50:06 Hey, Xach. 12:50:29 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 12:50:54 tic: Are you going to ILC09? 12:51:36 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-243-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:51:45 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-243-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:19 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-68.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:53:29 Xach: thanks again! Do you happen to know if there is a similar thing for integers? I can write one myself, but I see no reason to reinvent the wheel if there is already something that will work. 12:53:52 minion: tell sqvirt about binary-types 12:53:54 sqvirt: have a look at binary-types: Binary-types is a Library for accessing binary files with fixed bit-length code-words. http://www.cliki.net/binary-types 12:54:15 awesome. Thanks everyone. 12:56:32 beach: are you there? 12:56:56 Howdy xach 12:57:10 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-238.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:59:49 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 13:00:19 Hi wgl. 13:01:07 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:01:22 hello 13:03:19 ooh, a talking Xach 13:04:11 -!- drdo````` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:04:36 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:05:49 Good to see you here. 13:07:05 Will I see *you* at ILC09? 13:07:15 I hope so! 13:07:16 Xach, I would really like to, but I'm afraid I don't have the money nor vacation. 13:07:43 That's not stopping me! 13:08:09 Xach: Would love to, but getting this project past the nickle threshold. 13:08:11 Maybe if I could combine it with a US trip! 13:08:15 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 13:08:24 It is conveniently located in the US, so it might be feasible. 13:08:36 It would be more difficult to combine it with a Turkey trip. 13:08:54 Yeah, definitely. 13:09:48 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 13:09:48 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:49 What's the closest airport? 13:10:02 Logan 13:10:15 BOS is the code 13:11:16 Thanks. 13:11:44 4kk SEK. Not *too* bad. That's with taxes and all. Hm. 13:11:45 MHT is somewhat farther away, but sometimes has better prices. 13:11:58 No, wait, 4k one-way. :| 13:12:02 From where would you fly? 13:12:12 Gothenburg, Sweden. 13:12:14 Lulea International? 13:12:31 That's only off by 1300 km, sure. ;) 13:12:46 OK, this Lufthansa matrix is very confusing. It is indeed 4kk SEK for a round-trip. 13:13:28 there is this other matrix that may be less confusing! 13:13:56 $490 return seems nice 13:14:05 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 13:14:09 *Xach* is taking the train for $78 round trip 13:14:29 *Xach* is looking to cut lodging costs by sharing a room with one or more 13:14:34 Xach: o 13:14:35 Sweet. 13:14:45 Xach: i'd want to share, but i have not made up my mind yet 13:15:20 do i want to go through jet lag? *sigh* 13:15:24 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:06 H4ns: it should be completely cured by wednesday afternoon 13:16:12 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["reboot"] 13:16:28 Xach: i'd be there a week earlier. it's more the eastbound direction that bothers me. 13:17:47 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:18:50 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:19:49 ah 13:19:59 *Xach* will not experience "train-lag" 13:20:00 Hi Xach 13:20:20 Also, do I know anyone in the Cambridge area? Would be nice to have a sofa to crash on. 13:21:01 -!- sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [] 13:21:21 I have experienced train-lag when travelling from montana to chicago during to and from college for the 28 or 32 hour trip. 13:21:54 tic: many people in #lisp live in cambridge. they'll have to decide for themselves if they want a swede on a sofa. 13:22:14 I could bring cookies! 13:22:45 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 13:23:36 not pepparkakor! 13:24:41 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 13:25:18 cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:20 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 13:25:28 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:27:20 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:03 Xach, but they make you nice. :( 13:31:39 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:32:21 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.17] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:36:59 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:03 milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.235] has joined #lisp 13:47:03 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h69e.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 13:47:09 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 13:48:03 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-243-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:52:44 any cl-markdown users in the house? 13:54:20 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:54:46 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:54:58 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:55:00 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:16 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:56:34 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:05 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.17] has joined #lisp 13:59:11 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:59:25 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:38 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:56 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 14:04:03 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-243-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:31 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:32 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:51 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:29 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:12:31 -!- Xlas [n=28@c-4f3e70d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 14:17:25 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:43 -!- Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has left #lisp 14:28:52 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-141-85-37.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 14:31:42 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:33:44 hmm, ILC is roughly 1/5 of the cost I was expecting 14:34:07 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfb03.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 14:35:35 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:36:11 -!- aja_ [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:26 reaver__ [n=reaver@h69e.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 14:40:54 oh, if only Hoover were here, he could lean on ILC to bring its prices back up and save us from deflation. 14:41:16 the price is consistent with previous ilcs 14:42:03 koollman [n=samson_t@sd-9780.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 14:43:33 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:46:11 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 14:46:50 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:47:04 for [n=Administ@114.241.175.214] has joined #lisp 14:48:12 tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has joined #lisp 14:50:35 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-150-55.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 14:53:22 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:09 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [] 15:01:11 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:44 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:07:40 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:08:12 -!- ExtreTux [n=angel@42.Red-88-3-241.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:08:21 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 15:08:41 -!- mrsolo__ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:12 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:10:28 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 15:13:20 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@93-138-237-148.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 15:14:39 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:15:09 rotty_ [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #lisp 15:16:15 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:17:25 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:17:33 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 15:18:39 willb [n=wibenton@wireless93.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:18:48 qed [n=user@204.15.30.177] has joined #lisp 15:18:50 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:03 Phaze [n=PhazeDK@93.163.43.22] has joined #lisp 15:21:39 [OT] Does anybody know in which part of the HTTP RFC it mentions about the content encoding (ISO-8859-1, etc.) of the _headers_? 15:22:33 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-141-85-37.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:24:44 vy, i think http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec2.html#sec2.2 15:25:18 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [No route to host] 15:25:23 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [] 15:26:29 lnostdal: Thanks! 15:27:27 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:29:37 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:30:43 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 15:32:59 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:35:35 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:16 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfb03.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:37:50 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:37:53 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:38:06 Greetings! 15:41:29 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.231.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:42:03 So, will the technical papers for ILC2009 be available for purchase after the conference? 15:44:08 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 15:44:18 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody rebooted me"] 15:45:35 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 15:45:40 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfb03.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 15:46:41 Is there a name for this king of closure : (lambda (&optional value) (if value (setf x value) x)) ? 15:46:48 kind* 15:47:09 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-243-43.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:47:19 The king of closures :D 15:47:34 <_8david> | International Lisp Conference 1963, Mexico City 15:47:48 *_8david* wonders how many participants that conference had 15:48:38 schme: So if I have a function that receives one it would be proper to write (defun foo (king-closure a b c) ...) ? 15:49:04 auclairb: why is it a closure? 15:49:29 pkhoung: because it closes on x ? 15:50:01 auclairb: A memory cell? :) 15:50:03 auclairb: but why do you use a closure to achieve your goal? Can't you just pass a reference around? 15:50:47 auclairb: I'm sorry. The king of closures is not a normal name for anything, I was just very much enjoying your initial typo of kind :) 15:51:12 auclairb: I think I will start using king-closure for stuff though. I love it! 15:51:27 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-131-184.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:38 pkhuong: where can I read more about references? 15:51:48 PCL? 15:51:58 google: gigamonkeys reference gives me nothing 15:52:30 auclairb: What is FOO doing with that lambda ? 15:52:44 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0E0C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:47 auclairb: just about everything's a reference in lisp. You could use a CONS's CAR, a 0-rank array, or (defstruct box value). 15:53:22 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 15:53:36 and in the end - you probably shouldn't use a reference ;) 15:53:36 -!- larstobi [n=larstobi@195.139.173.50] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:53:41 Does SBCL have specialized zero dimensional arrays? 15:54:09 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 15:54:18 Buganini [n=buganini@140.122.126.12] has joined #lisp 15:54:21 Zhivago: I think so, at least I can make (makre-array 0 :element-type 'bit :fillpointer t) 15:54:25 Zhivago: specialised how? I'm fairly certain they're implemented as regular non-vector arrays. 15:54:36 auclairb: that's rank 1. 15:54:45 Well, I was thinking in terms of a kind of box object :) 15:55:19 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h69e.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:55:20 it's a very thick box 15:55:30 (setf (aref (make-array '())) t) 15:55:42 takes a lot of space, but not much room for payload 15:56:24 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:58:12 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:59:29 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:59:40 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2FE24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:12 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@93-138-237-148.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:05:38 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 16:05:53 binarin` [n=user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 16:06:24 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:07:15 any idea how to avoid SAP to pointer conversion on the pc returned by %caller-frame-and-pc in invoke-with-saved-fp-and-pc? 16:09:03 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:09:48 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 16:09:50 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0F555.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:13:45 sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 16:14:57 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C855.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:54 <_8david> store the SAP-INTs of the FP and PC into a specialized (unsigned-byte n-word-bits) integer array instead of a CONS? 16:16:16 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-150-55.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:16:32 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 16:17:03 n-machine-word-bits 16:17:59 -!- realtime [i=sabbath@189.72.27.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:18:06 come to think of it, are saps handled by raw structure slots? 16:18:10 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-243-43.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 16:18:11 realtime [i=sabbath@189.72.27.133] has joined #lisp 16:18:19 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:18:41 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:18:42 ymitsner [n=ymitsner@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:52 -!- ymitsner [n=ymitsner@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:22:01 robsynnot [n=irchon@mobileinternet2.o2.ie] has joined #lisp 16:22:54 -!- robsynnot [n=irchon@mobileinternet2.o2.ie] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:23:30 -!- binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:25:18 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:25:34 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host194.190-137-183.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:26:09 -!- bob_f [n=bob@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:26:53 auclairb: I used this King of closure to implement locatives, for example here: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/2645808b80037216 ; So you could call it the King of closures Locative 1st. 16:27:47 bob_f [n=bob@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:52 auclairb: also: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/6c4700f48de98f14/d141c5636559ba3b?lnk=st&q=locative+deref+author%3APascal+author%3ABourguignon#d141c5636559ba3b 16:29:03 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:29:05 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-243-43.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:30:43 mrsolo__ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:43 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:50 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:33:53 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34:02 _8david: that doesn't seem to work out 16:34:14 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:17 I still get the note. 16:34:39 matimago: thanks 16:35:19 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:36:01 In SETF, INCF and DECF, does the F mean 'form'? Like SET FORM, INCREMENT FORM and DECREMENT FORM. 16:37:06 mega1 pasted "invoke-with-saved-fp-and-pc-test" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74871 16:37:23 LostMonarch [n=roby@host190-245-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:38:46 tmh: i think it is sth function-for-place 16:39:01 alike 16:39:13 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host27.190-138-147.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:39:50 trebor_home: Thanks for the response, but I can't quite parse what you wrote. 16:40:41 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl080.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 16:40:56 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:41:02 (setf place newvalue)' expands into an update form that stores the result of evaluating NEWVALUE into the location referred to by PLACE. 16:42:06 Some PLACE forms involve uses of accessors that take optional arguments. Whether those optional arguments are permitted by `setf', or what their use is, is up to the `setf' expander function and is not under the control of `setf'. 16:42:26 16:42:28 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.17] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:43:45 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:43:51 tmh: you can read more in the hyperspec - lookup for setf/psetf (macro) in section "data and control flow" 16:43:55 trebor_home: I understand how all of these work, my question was about naming conventions. 16:44:51 tmh: etymologically, the "F" stood for "Function" 16:45:39 see Gabriel and Steele's HOPL2 paper (the uncut one), page 26. 16:45:44 kreuter: Ah, thanks. So, it's a SET Function, an INCrement Function and a DECrement Function. That makes sense. 16:46:14 well 16:46:21 the original name for SETF was SETFQ 16:46:28 kreuter: I've only scanned a couple sections of the paper, never really read the whole thing. 16:46:42 kreuter: And I realize that all of those are macros, but anyway. 16:46:45 "Deutsch commented that the special form used here is called SETFQ because "it quotes the function and evaluates everything else." This name was abbreviated to SETF in Lisp-Machine Lisp. Deutsch attributed the idea of dual functions to Alan Kay." 16:46:46 16:47:05 _8david: aha, changing the type of the second vvalue returned in the defknown of %caller-frame-and-pc to system-area-pointer helps 16:48:21 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["zzzzzzz"] 16:49:25 -!- mrsolo__ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:53:07 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 16:57:16 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:03:48 EvanR [n=evan@adsl-156-67-240.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:31 kroger [n=user@66.134.142.83] has joined #lisp 17:06:19 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@83.103.127.195] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:06:28 -!- kroger [n=user@66.134.142.83] has left #lisp 17:09:14 -!- qed [n=user@204.15.30.177] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:11:54 fualo [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has joined #lisp 17:11:59 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:16:10 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:16:35 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:17:39 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:21:19 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 17:23:31 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.227.1] has joined #lisp 17:24:24 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 17:24:29 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 17:28:31 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3cab.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:06 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:23 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:09 larstobi [n=larstobi@195.139.173.50] has joined #lisp 17:32:23 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit ["Be back later"] 17:34:34 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:37:41 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:37:47 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA78D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:38:49 fgtech [i=nemesis@bnc1.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 17:45:48 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfb03.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:47:29 qed [n=user@204.15.30.177] has joined #lisp 17:48:35 hello all 17:49:03 hello qed 17:49:13 Greetings qed! 17:49:31 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:20 -!- mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:50:39 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:52:14 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:53:30 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 17:54:43 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:15 qzg [n=qzg@ppp227.ld.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:18 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 17:56:20 -!- qzg [n=qzg@ppp227.ld.centurytel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:57:00 Xlas [n=28@c-be3e70d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:59:23 gaja_ [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:59:46 -!- gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:00:07 VardhanDotNet [n=vardhan@122.169.133.42] has joined #lisp 18:00:34 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:00:56 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 18:01:41 Hi, loop question : http://www.fractalconcept.com/asp/4aQ3/sdataQImTOqc0N7nIDM==/sdataQoBh-N3qe0jUC1B= is not working with SBCL .. apparently after key, a 'loop keyword or loop type keyword is expected. 18:02:42 that is correct 18:02:47 VardhanDotNet: that should be for key = 18:03:03 dlowe: thanx a lot. 18:03:20 *dlowe* looks for the "edit page" link but finds none. 18:03:36 Tordek [n=tordek@host35.190-227-44.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:05:38 vy [n=user@88.229.118.74] has joined #lisp 18:08:09 VardhanDotNet: as a matter of interest, what are you using mod_lisp for? 18:08:14 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:12:52 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-68.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:13:17 rsynnott: trying to play... build something from scratch. 18:15:30 nsPQSAJY0 [i=nspqsajy@116.75.40.94] has joined #lisp 18:16:26 Hi 18:16:34 -!- nsPQSAJY0 [i=nspqsajy@116.75.40.94] has left #lisp 18:17:13 -!- Tordek_ [n=tordek@host194.190-137-183.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:58 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:19:16 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 18:19:37 -!- qed [n=user@204.15.30.177] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:20:05 *Celebrations* Hello World from sbcl to mod_lisp to my browser !! 18:20:24 woah. 18:21:23 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Client Quit] 18:21:41 binarin`` [n=user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 18:21:54 VardhanDotNet: why don't you just use hunchentoot? 18:22:28 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 18:22:39 The Python compiler uses way too many special variables.. 18:23:02 stassats: i guess laziness & hubris 18:23:28 Ogedei [n=user@e178254051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:23:52 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 18:24:45 I haven't thought about it, but it feels like overuse of special variables is to data-flow what is spaghetti code is to control-flow 18:25:23 -!- fualo [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:25:58 does _that_ prevent from running two compilers in parallel? 18:26:18 So, anyone living near the ILC09 facilities and want to host a Swede for a couple of days? 18:26:42 non-global specials are not a problem for thread safety 18:28:59 -!- H4ns2 is now known as H4ns 18:31:02 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:31:24 rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-51-194.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:33:04 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:33:58 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 18:36:24 -!- mansour [n=mansour@CPE0014bf895399-CM0014f8c19014.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 18:36:26 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 18:37:18 -!- binarin` [n=user@62.105.145.214] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:37:37 -!- binarin`` [n=user@62.105.145.214] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:40:20 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:40:51 -!- mle [n=emily@kuu.accela.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:41:41 binarin`` [n=user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 18:42:13 -!- VardhanDotNet [n=vardhan@122.169.133.42] has left #lisp 18:44:03 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit ["leaving"] 18:44:39 manuel_ [n=manuel@129.13.169.147] has joined #lisp 18:46:57 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:37 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:12 NorthStar [i=email@89.180.23.250] has joined #lisp 18:48:48 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-6acdf8fcce9de4dd] has joined #lisp 18:49:50 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has joined #lisp 18:49:52 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-243-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:52:47 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 18:53:20 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:18 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:56:23 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 18:58:26 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:59:24 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 19:02:58 pjb [n=t@81-66-196-92.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 19:07:45 -!- binarin`` [n=user@62.105.145.214] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:10:28 younder [i=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 19:11:24 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:11:38 ChibaPet [n=mason@64.206.6.254] has joined #lisp 19:12:27 Woot, conference. I didn't realize it was in Cambridge until Zach posted about it. 19:13:26 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:32 again? 19:13:44 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@219.sub-70-197-112.myvzw.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:13:48 -!- ayrnieu_ is now known as ayrnieu 19:14:23 different Cambridge. 19:15:11 ah MIT 19:15:59 jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 19:16:22 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["c Ya"] 19:20:05 cruliedin [n=rld@67.159.33.195] has joined #lisp 19:20:51 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:07 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:24:01 impomatic [n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:24:25 yakov [n=yakov__@95-28-181-242.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:25:12 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:34:35 -!- yakov [n=yakov__@95-28-181-242.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:35:29 kreuter` [n=kreuter@pool-96-252-14-107.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:40 bew [n=chatzill@82-35-250-119.cable.ubr04.dals.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:37:15 -!- kreuter [n=kreuter@pool-96-252-14-107.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:39:59 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 19:42:46 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 19:43:30 -!- impomatic [n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has quit ["cw for newbies http://tr.im/xep :-)"] 19:44:51 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:11 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:48:47 -!- ChibaPet [n=mason@64.206.6.254] has quit [] 19:49:35 holycow [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has joined #lisp 19:57:01 -!- vy [n=user@88.229.118.74] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:58:55 Good evening. 19:59:02 evenin' beach. 20:00:06 -!- maodun [n=stopgo@c-76-102-148-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:01:36 sykopomp: what's up? 20:03:23 beach: not much. Not really having a daily schedule has been messing with sleep. It's 3:00pm and I woke up a few minutes ago :) 20:05:31 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:05:35 sykopomp: I find that very civlized, but I can't remember why you don't have a dily schedule. 20:05:56 evening 20:06:41 beach: well, I recently got out of school, and it's been quite impossible to find any work in the area I'm living. I'm also moving in the summer, so the number of places that will consider me is vastly reduced :) 20:06:57 hello Krystof; congratulations to getting the forms done. 20:07:30 sykopomp: what kind of things are you looking for? 20:07:54 beach: IT/helpdesk/mild programming/burger-flipping 20:08:10 sykopomp: come to the EU! 20:08:15 turns out undergrad degrees are pretty worthless for my generation. Feh. 20:08:32 beach: I'd love to! But I'm sort of tied down to the US for the time being :) 20:08:34 dacoda [n=user@clientssh2.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 20:08:58 sykopomp: Ah, sorry to hear that. I guess I won't ask you why. 20:09:20 beach: it's not a big problem. I'm engaged, and I have to think of where my fiancee wants to live, not just me :) 20:09:43 sykopomp: your fiancee should interview my wife! 20:09:47 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:10:03 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-154-142.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:10:05 hahaha :) 20:10:53 anyways, there's a bright side to all this. I have basically all the time I need until May, which means I can do a lot of coding, reading, learning, etc. 20:11:28 It's more of an opportunity, at least from that angle. I don't have to be stuck working 9-5 for at least a little while longer, and I can build up skills. 20:11:58 dwave [n=ask@084202073202.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 20:12:04 sykopomp: Excellent! I am serious though, my wife won't even discuss moving back to the US. Here, health coverage and live in general is much better. 20:13:08 s/live/life/ 20:13:39 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.171.149] has quit [" I have zero clue/experience with the dp stuff, which is why we should start a war.. Start a nuclear war."] 20:13:54 yes, we're spending the summer looking around and seeing where we want to settle down. Europe is on the list, although closeness to family is certainly a concern. 20:14:05 beach: where do you live? :) 20:14:13 bill[af]: Bordeaux 20:14:22 ahh nice :D 20:14:46 sykopomp: closeness these days is measured in terms of travel time and cost of airline tickets. 20:14:55 good evening, beach. 20:15:20 sykopomp: so I am closer to my family now than I was when working close to Stockholm in the 1980s. 20:15:27 hello tic! 20:15:30 the latter does a little jump when you have to hop over the puddle :P 20:15:47 beach, how are things? 20:15:48 sykopomp: perhaps, but not much. 20:15:58 tic: you don't want to know :( 20:16:20 beach, I'm sorry to hear that. :/ 20:16:25 :( 20:16:52 tic: no big deal. You are still welcome on May 17th. 20:17:21 and so are all other #lisp-ers (unless there are too many of you) :) 20:18:30 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:20:40 We (me and my wife) are having our usual spring party then, so if you want to attend, you should let us know. 20:21:32 *stassats`* wishes he could 20:21:55 beach, are you planning on attending ILC09? 20:22:28 tic: don't think so, I'm afraid. 20:22:42 tic: I'll be in Milan though 20:23:06 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-79.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:23:11 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 20:23:16 beach, when was that again? 20:23:20 wow. They really lowered the pricing for the ILC. 20:23:29 I think I might be able to make it if I save :D 20:23:41 tic: I can't remember. End of May? 20:24:42 tic: I have been told to get tickets NOW, or else the price will go up, but I am *so* busy right now that I can't find the time to even think about it. 20:25:10 beach, you do know you're on IRC? ;) 20:25:38 tic: Of course! Why do you ask? 20:27:08 tic: I don't do those "sorry wrong window" things! 20:27:37 beach: because you said you're too busy and don't have time, but you're "wasting" time on IRC 20:28:01 sykopomp: I don't think #lisp is a waste of time. 20:28:12 beach, not that I don't like your company, or anything, just making a reality check here. ;) 20:28:14 me neither, but I think that was the intent :) 20:28:26 got it 20:28:33 Hm. The last thing I posted got onto reddit, wonder if this one will, too. 20:30:16 Bedtime for me though, good night! 20:30:26 goodnight, beach 20:30:26 ginkgo [n=user@chello084113198244.17.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:31:02 night, beach! 20:33:53 does anyone know if there's been any research into stack machines recently? 20:36:11 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-243-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:31 ml` [n=milan@port-92-192-41-241.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:47 apologies for the offtopic question: can anybody recommend a decent, cheap hosting service (colocation or VPS or something, just for personal use)? 20:39:00 hm. I seem to be ticked. 20:39:06 -!- kreuter` is now known as kreuter 20:39:09 for lisp? 20:39:13 uh 20:39:38 tech.coop? 20:39:39 well, immediately for email. 20:39:42 minion: dacoda? 20:39:44 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``dacoda''. 20:40:14 hm. 20:40:19 I use rimuhosting.com but I can't run SBCL on its Xen at the moment 20:40:19 drewc: aroundp 20:41:05 but apart from that it's an excellent hosting provider 20:41:07 jewel: I seem to remember this issue turning up before 20:41:18 yeah, it's an old issue 20:42:10 dunno if it was ever fixed 20:42:23 I doubt it 20:43:07 kreuter: http://www.bytemark.co.uk/ is good 20:43:24 though not particularly cheap 20:45:18 -!- dwave [n=ask@084202073202.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 20:45:57 TryNiX [n=halaw@128.86.158.97] has joined #lisp 20:46:45 I started reading on lisp, syntax is quite weird for someone coming from Java =p 20:47:40 TryNiX: the thing to remember is that it's a layered syntax 20:47:57 -!- holycow [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:48:00 why? 20:48:22 kpreid, for some reason, what you just said didn't register in my dull brain :P 20:49:09 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@129.13.169.147] has quit [] 20:50:23 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:51:55 -!- ml`_ [n=milan@port-92-192-179-223.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:52:16 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:29 rsynnott, I just tried 1.0.18 on the same Xen system and it seems to be working ok (at least it's not failing in the same way as 1.0.17 did) 20:58:07 Can anyone recommend a very good book for Lisp? for someone coming from java =p 20:58:51 minion: pcl 20:58:52 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:59:13 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.227.1] has quit [] 21:00:10 book available online for free? :S 21:00:19 yes 21:03:27 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:04:13 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:05:21 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:05:37 rsynnott, oh, I think that was just an old non-threaded build I had lying around, it's still broken 21:06:09 kernoops [n=kernoops@unaffiliated/dakota] has joined #lisp 21:06:19 -!- kernoops [n=kernoops@unaffiliated/dakota] has left #lisp 21:08:50 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-204-206.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:09:45 jewel: how did 1.0.17 fail? 21:10:03 it segfaults on startup 21:11:09 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:32 http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-bugs/2008-06/msg00052.html 21:11:51 I think it's something to do with the way SBCL uses segment registers on x86 21:13:00 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:15:10 TryNiX: well, you have the text of some lisp program. that is then transformed by READ into a data structure (conses and symbols, mostly). then it is interpreted or compiled to be actually executed (EVAL, COMPILE) 21:15:22 and these layers are independent 21:15:37 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15:41 ahh 21:15:51 makes sense :) thanks. I'll be reading more about it =p 21:16:00 READ works the same whether you give it a lisp program or data or a something-else-in-lisp-reader-syntax program 21:16:21 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 21:17:03 and EVAL doesn't care a bit the textual syntax, since all it sees is the data structure 21:17:38 for that matter, macros can be considered another layer. you write a macro and you can do whatever -- at the data-structure level -- with what goes in a use of it 21:18:14 EVAL doesn't care (it just generically evaluates again the result of the macro), and the reader doesn't care (it just generically provides the parameters to the macro) 21:18:47 hmmm 21:18:55 quite interesting how it all works out 21:19:49 anyway, that's why you can easily do useful stuff with macros: you don't have to invent textual syntax, or parse existing textual syntax, to do it 21:20:01 you invent your own syntax *at the layer of data structures* 21:20:34 e.g. if you invent something like LET you can say your syntax is a list of binding-descriptions followed by n forms to be evaluated under those bindings 21:21:03 you don't have to say "the bindings are surrounded by parentheses and separated by commas, and the forms are surrounded by braces" etc etc 21:21:24 the lisp reader builds trees of lists for you, and you give an interpretation to that, which is simpler. 21:21:40 wow.... 21:21:49 its like it has no borders 21:22:04 -!- umis [n=umis@82.193.124.116.ipnet.kiev.ua] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:23:04 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:24:16 macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:25:44 kroger [n=user@66.134.142.83] has joined #lisp 21:27:20 lispm [n=joswig@g224121012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:30:04 kpreid: nice description. 21:30:28 -!- jonphilpott [n=user@office4.tmcs.net] has left #lisp 21:31:25 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3cab.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 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[Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:03:07 -!- TryNiX [n=halaw@128.86.158.97] has left #lisp 22:08:41 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 22:11:43 -!- Phaze [n=PhazeDK@93.163.43.22] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:11:53 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:12:00 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:13:21 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:37 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-154-142.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:15:10 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless93.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:16:10 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 22:17:21 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:17:27 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:17:53 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:18:46 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:20:15 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 22:21:37 dwave [n=ask@084202073202.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 22:22:07 -!- dwave [n=ask@084202073202.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Client Quit] 22:22:56 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:26:42 -!- Eleanore [n=a@c213-100-35-225.swipnet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:28:12 jsnell: Can you remember the exact difference between the swank-source-path-parser and the the mutant version in sb-cover? 22:28:57 I think the one in sb-cover is supposed to have a higher granularity, but I fail to see how it'd achieve this higher granularity. 22:30:10 IIRC the one in swank can only point to the start of a list form, sb-cover can point to single elements in the form 22:31:12 which would mainly be up to source-path-source-position 22:32:35 oh, and a different #\( reader 22:33:10 the sb-covers one keeps track of atoms, so it seems, right 22:34:18 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 22:34:36 I don't undertstand source-path-source-position 22:34:45 I did once, but forgot 22:34:56 not quite, since it can distinguish the two x:s in (foo x x) 22:35:05 which of course wouldn't work if it was just tracking atoms 22:36:11 Yeah, I see. I'll add some comments to cover.lisp. 22:36:15 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host190-245-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 22:36:28 the first part drills down into the form from the path 22:36:42 I mean what its purpose is 22:37:24 oh. I thought that would be obvious from the docstring 22:37:33 it maps a source path to a character range in the file 22:38:16 Beket [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:39:05 well yeah, it's more in the context of swank-sbcl 22:40:42 anyway, during my breaks on learning for exams, I experimented with the following 22:41:16 if I store the whole source-path in sb-c::compiler-error-context, and not just the source-path-original-source part of it 22:41:35 I think I can make the following work: 22:42:07 say you get a compiler-note highlighting an outer macro, when you press C-c C-m on the macro, the offending forms _in the macroexpansion buffer_ will be highlighted 22:42:16 ReiniUrban [n=chatzill@212-183-50-73.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:42:19 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:42:32 ooh, that's hot 22:42:41 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 22:43:01 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:43:10 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:43:25 recursively, of course =) 22:43:40 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:33 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:44:33 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4fab.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:47:09 Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 22:48:25 -!- dacoda [n=user@clientssh2.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:48:34 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 22:50:22 -!- kg4qxk [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:51:02 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:17 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:52:41 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 22:56:04 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:38 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:57:00 kg4qxk [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:59:05 -!- rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-51-194.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:01:15 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224121012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 23:02:43 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-10.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 23:03:46 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-86.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:03:53 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 23:04:18 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:07:14 hmm I have a package defining a class and a few generic functions (yet no methods), and another package instanciating that class also defines methods for those generic functions 23:07:24 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:07:39 phadthai: and?... 23:07:44 however when the former class attempts to invoke those methods an error is signaled for no matching method 23:08:14 err former package rather 23:08:21 packages don't contains classes or generic functions, nor instantiate classes 23:08:39 packages just map strings to symbols 23:08:42 but the symbols including for any function or method are tied to a package right 23:09:04 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:10:15 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 23:10:49 homoioi [n=zc155789@nat/sun/x-68ed3795b42abb01] has joined #lisp 23:10:56 ok, given that you understand that, you should easily be able to check whether your methods are really being defined on the right generic function, and specializing the right classes 23:12:08 just check whether the symbols naming those gfs and classes are right 23:12:49 blowery [n=blowery@cpe-72-228-38-92.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:58 they appear to be, visually... interestingly, the method it's looking a match for is prefixed with the initial package name 23:13:13 what do you mean "visually"? 23:13:25 method name and class type match 23:13:46 phadthai: Make sure you :USE the package exporting the symbol that names the generic function 23:14:33 (:use :cl :iolib :mm-server :mm-rw-queue) where package defining the class and generic function is mm-server 23:15:14 then make sure that mm-server exports the symbol 23:15:49 I mean that when you write "visually", it suggests you're eyeballing the symbols in your sourcecode, and seeing that they're the same 23:16:06 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 23:16:14 ooh heh thanks for reminding me to look there tcr, other methods seemed exported but this one wasn't listed 23:16:29 jsnell: yes 23:16:46 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:17:29 for future reference, that's not a very good way 23:17:43 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 23:17:55 a reasonable way would be for example (eq 'foo:bar 'baz::bar) 23:18:03 Hm, I should write a function which you can use to explicitly qualify (and de-qualify) the symbols within the defun-at-point. 23:19:44 KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:51 jsnell: true 23:20:29 btw is it normal if repl prompt appears to interfere with prompt for answers such as choosing a symbol to keep when there is a conflict 23:20:55 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-243-43.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 23:20:59 i.e. I may type 1 but the repl seems to catch it rater than the proper prompt 23:21:06 err proper stream 23:21:12 -!- tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:21:48 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:51 another odd issue is when I compile the output in the repl can freeze until I go down the buffer and press enter if the output is long enough 23:21:58 and it doesn't seem to be a paging feature 23:21:58 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-154-124.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:22:04 as it happens randomly 23:22:32 in such freeze compilation also waits pending 23:23:22 I should again update slime perhaps, but this problem lasted despite several earlier updates 23:26:19 method now gets called properly, thanks for the help :) 23:27:00 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 23:27:36 -!- ReiniUrban [n=chatzill@212-183-50-73.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 23:29:37 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:48 sohum [n=sohum@114.73.35.70] has joined #lisp 23:30:03 kroger [n=user@66.134.142.83] has joined #lisp 23:30:13 -!- Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has left #lisp 23:30:18 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 23:30:19 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 23:30:19 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 23:30:22 what's the easiest way to run a command as soon as one of the slimes in slime-lisp-implementations start? 23:31:37 on what side? 23:32:14 stassats`: a lisp command, so I assume the server 23:32:52 perhaps, swank::*new-connection-hook* 23:33:57 basically, I'm running a bot out of slime, and I just want the (load "load.lisp") to happen automatically 23:34:07 -!- younder [i=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 23:35:00 ~/.swank.lisp may also be appropriate 23:35:27 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:01 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:06 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:15 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:38:59 tcr: where's the documentation for that? 23:39:12 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:40:13 tcr: never mind, found it 23:40:13 in slime's documentation 23:40:37 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@38.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 23:41:01 sohum: you have to make sure to invoke swank-loader:init with :setup t (the default) 23:42:08 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 23:42:23 tcr; stassats`: is there an example somewhere I can look at? 23:43:21 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:31 example of what? 23:43:47 put any code you like into .swank.lisp 23:43:47 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:44:14 stassats`: well, yes, but that'll be run every time, not just on a specific slime-lisp-implementation 23:44:21 stassats`: or is there global var I can check? 23:44:52 #+sbcl(run-code-on-sbcl) 23:45:31 stassats`: well, that's a compiler specific thing. I have the same compiler, but other distinctions like startup directories and such 23:46:10 -!- ml` [n=milan@port-92-192-41-241.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:46:11 or if it is all sbcls, then just add --load "load.lisp" into slime-lisp-implementation path string 23:46:13 ml` [n=milan@port-92-192-10-181.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:46:37 stassats`: oooh. thankee! 23:49:26 -!- kroger [n=user@66.134.142.83] has left #lisp 23:52:19 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@pool-71-112-112-231.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:03 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.20] has joined #lisp 23:54:19 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.235] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:56:51 kroger [n=user@66.134.142.83] has joined #lisp 23:58:19 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 23:59:39 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-227-20.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp