00:00:23 -!- `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.19] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:00:56 sykopomp: Otherwise, use (swank::connection.user-output (swank::default-connection)) 00:01:13 -!- kpreid__ is now known as kpreid 00:10:15 -!- merAch [n=none@c-71-199-20-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:12:54 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 00:13:02 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:16:59 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:17:44 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:22:45 merAch [n=none@c-71-199-20-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:48 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:24:42 -!- fmitchell [n=fmitchel@blanche.online-buddies.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:25:08 cooldude127 [n=cooldude@32.133.13.18] has joined #lisp 00:25:30 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:00 -!- cooldude127 [n=cooldude@32.133.13.18] has quit [Client Quit] 00:36:42 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit ["leaving"] 00:37:56 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 00:39:04 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 00:39:59 -!- zzach [n=zzach@p50871151.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:43:48 trumae [n=vmaciel@200.251.4.238] has joined #lisp 00:44:32 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 00:46:35 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:47:24 <_death> fe[nl]ix: there? 00:47:50 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:50:10 kg4qxk [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:52:06 _death: not for long 00:52:23 <_death> heh, me neither, I should go to sleep 00:52:33 <_death> but, I found a bug in the select-multiplexer 00:52:41 <_death> and it took me more than an hour to trace :) 00:52:55 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 00:54:16 <_death> in `recalc-fd-masks', you pass the supplied fd to `find-max-fd'.. there's no good reason to do that, likely you should pass fd-setsize.. otherwise you can lose events for fds which happen to be greater than the supplied one 00:55:26 szergling [n=tyc20@125-236-135-147.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 01:01:32 -!- ferada [n=user@e179234236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["gutenacht"] 01:03:08 -!- jlf [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:03:09 _death: see http://common-lisp.net/~sionescu/recalc-fd-masks.diff 01:03:44 no need to search downfrom fd-setsize, but from (max old-max-fd new-fd) 01:03:48 ken-p` [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 01:06:51 <_death> yeah 01:08:01 ken-p`` [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 01:09:42 _death: ok, pushed 01:11:07 <_death> k.. night :) 01:12:40 -!- trumae [n=vmaciel@200.251.4.238] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:16:16 -!- yakov [n=yakov__@95-28-117-216.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:18:39 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:47 eevar_ [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:55 -!- eevar_ [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:20:12 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:20:36 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-196.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 01:20:38 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-eddbf3cffb6bd54b] has joined #lisp 01:22:41 -!- ken-p` [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:25:50 -!- ken-p`` is now known as ken-p 01:28:17 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:49 repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-225-2-177.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:59 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["g'night"] 01:40:37 the_unmaker [n=Administ@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:42:45 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:58 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has left #lisp 01:49:10 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:49:37 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-78-238.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:51:03 Heoooo [n=chatzill@hoasnet-fe22dd00-204.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 01:51:38 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177121080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:52:24 -!- szergling [n=tyc20@125-236-135-147.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has left #lisp 01:52:25 HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has joined #lisp 01:53:09 which of clisp or lisp-hyperspec do you recommend for a beginner with Mac OS? 01:53:54 Heoooo: clisp is an implementation, and the hyperspec is the specification. What you said doesn't really make much sense. 01:54:38 but if you're looking for a Common Lisp implementation, and you're on OSX, you could go with either SBCL or Clozure CL, which are both good, free implementations. 01:54:59 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:34 sykopomp: I have DrScheme, good? 01:55:50 Heoooo: DrScheme is an implementation of Scheme, not Common Lisp 01:56:00 this channel is for Common Lisp 01:56:31 i want to lears lisp 01:56:39 *n 01:57:12 minion: please tell Heoooo about that-dead-sexy-book 01:57:13 Heoooo: have a look at that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 01:57:33 if you're new to programming in general, though, you should start with gentle intro 01:57:43 minion: please tell Heoooo about gentle 01:57:44 Heoooo: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 01:58:39 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:59:03 I reccomend dont use mac osx 01:59:06 use linux 01:59:40 the_unmaker: good thing this channel isn't #oswars, eh? 02:01:52 is there some mathematically inclined book for lisp? 02:02:42 I don't know. 02:02:57 Heoooo: how broad a definition of lisp are you using? 02:03:19 dunno 02:03:30 *kpreid* ...reads scrollback 02:04:44 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp193.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 02:05:38 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:05:51 Heoooo: Lisp is a family of languages, not a single language. 02:06:02 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 02:06:23 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-114-10.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:06:27 Heoooo: To an extent, talking about lisp to that extent is like talking about ALGOL when you really mean C, or even Java 02:08:54 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16923E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:13:47 I have an interesting question: 8 cpu box, will lisp program be stuck on 1 cpu? 02:14:02 not if you thread them. 02:15:14 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 02:15:17 b4 [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 02:19:57 how does one make a threaded app? 02:20:21 by creating threads and running code inside them 02:20:41 the_unmaker: the ending answer will be "depends on the lisp" 02:20:48 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:20:57 or you could use a library e.g. bordeaux-threads 02:21:02 http://www.cliki.net/Bordeaux-Threads Sure, but this is cross-impl 02:21:11 beat me to it :) 02:21:46 (of course it would be *better* to have message-passing and parallelism rather than shared-state concurrency, but I don't feel like fixing that today) 02:21:56 *kpreid* nods to Riastradh 02:27:19 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-101-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:55 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-139-212.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:30:30 -!- nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:31:44 Why would SBCL give a style warning for using a keyword argument when the keyword argument is specified in the defmethod? 02:31:51 LiamH pasted "Method keyword :divided-difference gets a style warning" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74665 02:32:37 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:32:42 did you put &key in the generic function? 02:32:51 sykopomp: yes 02:32:56 strange 02:33:18 the weird part is, there are other methods with different keyword arguments, and there is no warning 02:33:31 which is the way (I think) it should be 02:36:04 LiamH annotated #74665 with "the defgeneric, and another method without the warning" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74665#1 02:41:29 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.207.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:42:08 ok how do I learn about message passing and parallelism 02:42:31 the_unmaker: grab a book. Good luck, have fun. 02:44:55 practical common lisp cover it? 02:45:00 no 02:45:29 PCL is for learning Common Lisp and its offerings, and how to use it. It's not meant to cover topics like parallelism and such. 02:49:28 but that stuff is somewhere 02:51:53 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 03:00:24 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:01:18 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-216-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:03:28 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0C45.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:06:27 the_unmaker: I was talking about things that ought to be in lisp implementations or libraries, not something you might use 03:09:14 drafael [n=quassel@ip-118-90-139-67.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:10:27 -!- HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:15:10 fualo [n=fualo@c-76-114-19-61.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:35 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C5E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:20:17 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:24:50 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-101-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:29:18 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:51 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host27.190-138-147.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:32:56 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:20 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 03:44:12 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:44:28 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:40 -!- Heoooo [n=chatzill@hoasnet-fe22dd00-204.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:47:31 -!- b4 [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:52:29 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:52:34 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-45.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:51 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:01:20 jlf [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:43 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:04:11 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp193.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:06:19 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 04:07:24 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:07:56 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 04:08:21 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 04:09:37 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-45.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 04:10:00 woopdeedoo [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-b63cecde8dccdd68] has joined #lisp 04:10:23 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:12:04 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:03 kpreid: well if one can use ti then whats the use eh 04:21:16 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 04:21:54 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Success] 04:23:34 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:23:43 The seventh note of the diatonic musical scale? Isn't that just a -touch- offtopic? 04:27:45 Tordek [n=tordek@host27.190-138-147.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:32:03 I am bummer backus FL language has no open implementation 04:38:32 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:40:17 http://www.archive.org/details/JohnBack1987 anyone else get bad audio for this? 04:42:21 tickaway [n=tmcclory@96.245.90.45] has joined #lisp 04:43:03 hey all 04:43:29 Im using vecto 04:43:39 and trying an example function 04:43:41 but get this eror 04:43:41 failed to find the TRUENAME of times.ttf: 04:50:39 Maybe you don't have times.tff 04:50:44 .ttf* 04:51:17 Does anyone know a term to describe the role of function in this sexp? The best I can come up with is something like "arbitrary functions" 04:51:21 ((lambda (function arg) (function arg)) (lambda (n) (* n n)) 3) 04:51:47 ... Unused variable? 04:51:51 Gratuitous. 04:52:37 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.44.126] has left #lisp 04:52:40 And then my question is what lisps can I do this in? I've been able to get it to work in guile, but not elisp or SBCL 04:52:42 Yeah, I see one unused parameter (function), and one type error (3 can't be coerced to a function). 04:53:03 Probably because it's obviously scheme code, not common lisp or emacs lisp code. 04:53:26 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:43 Hmm, interesting. Does anyone know any lisps other than scheme where this is allowed? 04:54:54 tickaway: lisp-1s 04:55:07 Aha 04:55:46 tickaway: lemme guess, using functions as regular values in let clauses and higher-order functions? 04:56:17 http://www.archive.org/details/IntroductiontoUnCommonWeb this is fuzzy, can't read the text 04:56:27 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:56:50 tickaway: common lisp has separate namespaces for functions and other variables, so you can't just bind a function to a regular variable and call it by putting that variable in the first point in a sexp 04:57:55 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:58:02 (funcall (lambda (function n) (funcall function n)) (lambda (n) (* n n)) 3) would work, though. 04:59:02 thanks sykopomp 04:59:05 KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:16 putting functions and normal values in the same namespace was the default in older lisps, but later implementations (the ones that led to CL) changed it 05:00:20 scheme goes back to the lisp-1 way... clojure does, too, but also offers additional features for avoiding name collisions, which is the reason it was changed in the first place 05:00:54 ozy`: there are various reasons for using lisp-2s. Name collisions is not the only one. 05:01:42 sykopomp: such as? I haven't ever heard any other explanation for that particular change... 05:02:18 ozy`: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 05:05:02 sykopomp: Actually, CL allows a lambda form as a function name in the first part of a form, so ((lambda (f n) (funcall f n)) (lambda (n) (* n n)) 3) is legal too. 05:05:19 what is a nice HTML templater done in common lisp? 05:05:37 nyef: oh, neat. I didn't know that. 05:10:26 damn this looks like awesome vid 05:10:28 but 05:10:31 blurry 05:10:35 on uncommon web 05:11:59 anyone here do web apps with lisp? 05:15:27 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:16:23 anyone here running uncommon web? 05:16:25 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:16:29 everyone gone? 05:18:54 Lain [n=Lain@c-71-224-213-131.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:04 hi 05:19:18 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 05:19:23 hello 05:19:39 welcome to the lisp chat 05:19:48 is this your first time here? 05:19:52 everyones friendly 05:19:57 mostly 05:20:16 Lain: are you done? 05:20:47 benny [n=benny@i577A0D92.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:20:57 yes 05:20:58 Just make sure you use your apostrophes properly. 05:21:13 =\ 05:21:35 You know, I haven't seen a thwap for a long time. 05:21:38 i type fragmented like that cause how i was brought up 05:22:13 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D1E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:22:15 Lain: By being repeatedly dropped on your head? 05:22:52 are you being alittle presumptuous? 05:22:57 arn't* 05:23:09 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1ECDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:26 its ok to make spelling errors 05:23:32 Why? 05:23:41 -!- the_unmaker [n=Administ@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:23:46 Zhivago: don't feed the troll. 05:23:55 because its not nearly as harmful as irrationally jumping to an immediate action 05:23:57 whatever that may be 05:24:14 sheesh why be so mean 05:24:16 Well, if it's a troll, we can just immediately remove it. 05:24:18 i just got here 05:24:30 what makes you guys better then me? 05:24:36 so CLISP is GPL'ed because someone told the author his dependency on libreadline requires it to be GPL'ed? 05:24:49 and CLISP was under a BSD license previously? 05:24:51 Lain: What makes you unable to take the effort to spell simple words? 05:25:02 Weirdo: Something like that. 05:25:08 the fact that it takes more time to correct 05:25:10 Zhivago: it's pretty apparent that this is a troll. Can -you- remove him? :) 05:25:18 Sure. 05:25:20 and is not needed if you still understand 05:25:30 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 05:25:31 Zhivago, so it's a big load of bollocks, because SFLC (bunch of gnu lawyers) decided it's not the case 05:25:34 why do you keep calling me that 05:25:45 there's a bunch of BSD-licensed code in the linux kernel now 05:25:59 (atheros, etc) 05:26:00 i'm kinda pritty new to irc 05:26:03 come on zhi 05:26:16 this is one chat i'd rather not get on bad terms with 05:26:24 weirdo: that 'someone' happens to have been rms himself. 05:26:34 weirdo: the e-mail conversation is a bit hilarious. 05:26:45 Lain: Then take the effort to write like an intelligent human being. 05:26:58 define 05:27:19 it would seem to me that, by nature, BSD code (having-been-released) satisfies the requirement that the GPL holds to share-alike. was this the premise of the SFLC findings? 05:27:22 look at this: http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS2902106404.html 05:27:31 spiderbyte, yes 05:27:35 You guys are actually that strict on grammatical correctness? 05:27:51 so rms scammed clisp's author into putting his code under the viral license? how quaint 05:27:52 Lain: It helps to get rid of stupid and lazy people. 05:28:01 Lain: talk about lisp. I don't care about what you're talking about. 05:28:04 Lain as in 'serial experiments lain'? 05:28:13 yes 05:28:28 programmers, strict on grammar/syntax? (setq irony t) 05:29:02 You can't lose individuality in programming. 05:29:30 with everything set to strict rules, there is no room for. 05:29:32 no, but you can lose interest in socialization. 05:29:33 If individuality means 'being lazy and stupid', then you certainly should lose it. 05:29:34 ;P 05:29:34 spiderbyte: that's not idiomatic. We prefer to use (defvar irony nil), and (setf irony t) to set it. 05:29:35 Not in a creative sense. 05:29:51 sykopomp: pardon my elisp. ;P 05:30:01 spiderbyte: unacceptable. 05:30:05 And let us not forget those *'s for conventional reasons. 05:30:13 i wouldn't relate the two. 05:30:20 [defconstant +irony+ t) 05:30:23 Lain: that's a new one, spelling wrong is creativity. :-D 05:30:35 slang? 05:30:36 sykopomp: is that a joke or what is the reason doing that way? 05:30:39 Lain: Yes, but you're too lazy and stupid to spell 'pretty' properly, so you don't count. 05:31:00 the fact that languages have a tendency to continuously subdivide? 05:31:09 srsly tho, i'm coming from an elisp-only background, trying to get in to clisp for more-than-just-emacs usage. i realize i'll have a few artifacts that carry over in the process, but i'll embrace-the-better-way as able. ;] 05:31:19 sykopomp: what do you think about (defvar irony t)? 05:31:29 it doesn't reflect ones intellect or work ethic. 05:31:31 echo-area: using defvar/defparameter and setfing it is idiomatic for the most part, but I was bringing it up in a tongue-and-cheek manner (since he was talking about grammar..) 05:31:46 for all you know english could be my second language, no? 05:31:53 Lain: What does it reflect when you are too lazy to spell 'pretty' properly? 05:32:02 echo-area: if you want to be -really- strict about good style, you would do (defvar *irony* t) 05:32:07 that you were unaware of spelling it wrong. 05:32:08 so what? lots of people here don't have english as their mothertongue... if you get your errors pointed out, make some effort. 05:32:18 sykopomp: I see. Thank you. 05:32:22 Lain: Then you were too lazy and stupid to learn basic vocabulary. 05:32:25 how about (with-irony (:copious-amounts) ...)? 05:32:38 or i spend my time thinking about other things 05:32:45 then a linear way of living 05:32:49 echo-area: but for the most part, I don't see setq anywhere but the hyperspec. setf seems to be preferred, from what I've seen and read. 05:32:58 Lain: If you can't even manage to use 'then' properly ... 05:33:07 Zhivago: I think it's now established that he is just trolling. 05:33:13 good morning. (or evening) 05:33:18 Honestly, im not. 05:33:30 why don't you question my computer intellect. 05:33:32 *spiderbyte* thinks emo-ing == trolling 05:33:38 Zhivago: please? 05:33:46 seems like a more appropriate subject. 05:33:49 -!- Zhivago has set mode -b %vixey!*@* 05:33:49 sykopomp: maybe it's because setq is specifically for symbols :) 05:33:54 hey, let's discuss lisp, ok? 05:33:57 -!- Zhivago has set mode +b %Lain!*@* 05:34:01 echo-area: yes. 05:34:01 More Lisp talk! 05:34:06 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 05:34:13 tic: have I told you that I really enjoy lisp? 05:34:26 sykopomp, a few times, yeah. anything new to add to the table? 05:34:39 sykopomp, progress on your cloning project? 05:35:11 tic: actually, it's mostly usable at this point, so I'm taking some time to reorganize (read: erase half of) the project sheeple was meant for. 05:35:20 as per my aforementioned elisp background, is there a good sort-out-the-differences-and-similarities overview i might refer to in my studies? i'm imagining sort of a side-by-side spreadsheet affair, or something along those lines, to see the major points of contrast. any links come to mind? 05:35:37 sykopomp, nice! and then you end up in the refactoring loop and never release. :) 05:35:53 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:54 spiderbyte: Lexical scoping would be one major issue. 05:36:11 read syntax... 05:36:26 the existence of packages 05:36:29 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 05:36:37 tic: I know, it's unfortunate :P I think if I change my approach a bit, I could possibly have a better-defined set of goals that I can fulfill over time, instead of just 'writing code until I guess it's done' 05:36:45 which seems to be a very dangerous pattern to get into :-o 05:37:39 i suppose i meant more syntactical variations, rather than say, bullet-point differences 05:37:46 sykopomp, anything wrong with that? 05:37:57 except that i usually never get done with that approach :P 05:37:58 weirdo: see 'refactoring loop and never release' 05:38:12 but this time i'm Almost Done 05:38:14 Look for something on 'CL for the elisp programmer' perhaps. 05:38:26 spiderbyte: you could ask dto 05:38:42 spiderbyte, but at least use slime and not ilisp :) 05:38:44 he's an elisper-slash-lisper 05:39:09 *spiderbyte* does indeed have slime 05:39:30 and (with-shameless-plug http://tehran.lain.pl/stuff/asdf-browser.el - there's my asdf system browser increasing productivity by 42% money back guarantee) 05:40:39 weirdo: jeje. i like your public domain non-disclaimer. ;P 05:41:09 envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:41:12 except it's probably without legal meaning, but give me some leeway, i'm a programmer not a lawyer 05:41:36 the whole thing about legal conformance gives me the creeps, why do programmers have to bother with licensing and such? 05:41:54 weirdo: similar to a 'license' i use sometimes, which i've dubbed The OldSchool License (OSL), which reads (in full), "Here's this." 05:42:45 i've been releasing under the bsd-license, but now i decided i'll do public domain exclusively, because i wouldn't want even the plagiarists to be subjected to state violence 05:43:30 sykopomp, well-defined set of goals? crazy! just hack! :) 05:43:56 tic: that's exactly why I had to wipe out half the code I worked on for 6 months :P 05:44:06 garvin [n=garvin@61.29.202.42] has joined #lisp 05:44:23 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:44:29 sykopomp, ayyye :/ 05:44:47 someone suggested adding the kleene star to my pattern matcher 05:45:02 on the other hand, it was quite fantastic for exploring what I needed and figuring out my actual requirements. 05:45:05 recently, i changed everything to CLOS when i saw i reinvented message-passing on lambdas 05:45:12 and I have a better idea of what I have to do now :) 05:45:21 weirdo: CLOS is fantastic. I adore it <3 05:45:25 and now i noticd kleene-star should be able to be nested 05:46:00 talk about a neverending development cycle 05:46:26 you can't do it on CLOS? I'm confused. 05:46:42 sykopomp, i can. but metaprogramming's hard :( 05:46:42 Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:46:50 debugging macros is a pain in the bollocks 05:46:55 what do you mean, though? 05:47:00 'nested'? 05:47:21 sykopomp, try this: (list (* (typep number) (* (typep symbol)))) 05:47:28 so that '(42 a b 69 c) would match 05:48:23 well, i won't ask for feature requests before i release again :P 05:55:24 at least now it works as fast as mark tarver's pattern matcher 05:56:21 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-54-10.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:10 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-173-48-113-62.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Oh, look! It's long past time to go to bed."] 05:57:17 can anybody comment on RDNZL for me? i'm .NET clueless but might need it in a few weeks, thought i might do it via Lisp. 05:59:27 might be better than forcibly embedding webkit, for the massive kludge i want to use it for :-P 06:00:16 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #lisp 06:00:26 -!- tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:00:52 -!- woopdeedoo [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-b63cecde8dccdd68] has left #lisp 06:01:02 holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-b63cecde8dccdd68] has joined #lisp 06:01:14 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #lisp 06:01:19 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:02:08 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:02:52 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 06:04:49 fusss, that's some FFI for .NET? 06:04:50 my choices are bundle Gtk and polish the heck out of the toy app, or use .net and ship something tiny and standard looking 06:04:58 weirdo: yeah 06:05:13 fusss, what impl do you use on windows/ 06:05:19 sbcl and LW 06:05:30 mostly sbcl 06:05:55 it would take me EONS to polish something to make it look like this, for a desktop app that is. 06:05:57 http://www.mono-project.com/files/9/98/Monocalendar1.png 06:06:23 -!- Lou__ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Success] 06:06:27 fusss: goodness. What a busy life. 06:06:30 I need a desktop GUI toolkit that supports CSS, SVG and Javascript :-P 06:06:56 fusss, RDNZL looks ok to me 06:07:05 though i don't have a ms windows system running 06:07:17 Lou__ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 06:07:22 sykopomp: feature creep. it started with "a simple queue manager that shows an icon in the systray of when something is available in the server". Now it's this. 06:07:52 fusss: now it takes 3 hours just to make a screenshot? That's horrid. 06:08:48 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:09:47 sykopomp: what screenshot? 06:09:57 http://www.mono-project.com/files/9/98/Monocalendar1.png 06:10:00 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-eddbf3cffb6bd54b] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:10:16 HAHA, you had me there 06:10:23 :P 06:11:41 someone look at this: http://dotnetslackers.com/images/articleimages/wpffeatures.jpg 06:12:29 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:13:00 that's what WPF is. if google can take gears offline, i think i can ship a tiny hunchentoot app on a cdrom. 06:13:27 i might have to kludge webkit or gecko into submission first, though 06:14:51 sebell [n=sctb@adsl-71-135-98-155.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:57 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:20:13 hunchentoot compiles to 830k. sbcl is 24 megs (Corman and LW still smaller). sqlite is 1 meg. the pretty much gives you a DIY google gears. (c.f. http://code.google.com/apis/gears/gears_faq.html#whatIsGears) 06:20:35 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:45 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 06:22:58 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:25:11 colarte [i=colarte@190.157.51.210] has joined #lisp 06:26:54 -!- fualo [n=fualo@c-76-114-19-61.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:27:11 -!- jlf [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:34:46 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp193.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 06:34:48 if enough people bundle a cutting edge web client runtime with their desktop apps, we might just see an open source AIR clone and more applications that look as polished as desktop widgets :-) 06:36:33 and your next clim code might (require :cl-who) haha 06:37:47 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:37:56 -!- Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 06:41:01 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:44:17 g'day 06:45:35 hey schmx 06:45:38 heya, schme. 06:48:33 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-54-10.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 06:49:08 How's code? 06:50:30 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:28 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 06:53:52 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-54-10.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:45 How's food? 06:56:55 It's great. 06:57:02 *schmx* is enjoying his lunch. 06:57:06 -!- schmx is now known as schme 06:58:21 pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has joined #lisp 07:00:08 wow. it works! 07:01:34 weirdo: Congrats. 07:01:43 weirdo: yay! 07:01:49 weirdo: post a demo! 07:01:51 lisppaste: link 07:01:59 lisppaste: url? 07:01:59 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 07:02:18 sykopomp, wait. i'll post a benchmark of harropian "simplify" 07:02:25 along with a macroexpansion :-) 07:03:10 -!- colarte [i=colarte@190.157.51.210] has left #lisp 07:05:56 nice of you google. gears' "WorkerPool" does client side threading, so your server can stay single threaded (you hear that sbcl-bin.exe?) 07:06:24 -!- sebell [n=sctb@adsl-71-135-98-155.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 07:08:51 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:10:45 -!- beach` is now known as beach 07:10:47 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp193.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:11:06 Good morning. 07:11:22 mornin' beach 07:11:59 -!- tickaway [n=tmcclory@96.245.90.45] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:13:56 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 07:15:22 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-e5c9ccbbc2677ea8] has joined #lisp 07:17:52 Let's see if I can re-invent a half-assed Prolog in Lisp. 07:18:06 PAIP-prolog? :P 07:18:43 tic: I am assuming you know such a thing exists, right? 07:18:44 No, I'm trying to solve a problem in "Programming Challenges". 07:18:49 beach, yeah. 07:21:41 *schme* makes more tea then. 07:25:17 OT but interesting, http://i41.tinypic.com/1it95.jpg 07:25:17 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 07:25:31 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:26:32 fusss: I don't get it. 07:26:37 I'm sorry about the stupid question, but I'm a bit confused... :initform always evaluates, and :default-initargs only evaluates when an :initarg isn't provided in make-instance? 07:26:59 sykopomp: yes 07:27:14 thanks :) 07:27:15 :default-initargs is will come into play when an initarg is not provided 07:28:02 you can override an initform with an initarg, but if you have :default-initargs, those default values will replace the initform 07:28:21 schme: just me running various browsers on windows 07:29:01 Ok.. that's... interesting ? 07:29:36 memory use is. 07:30:06 Ok. 07:30:16 They all seem to be using very lil' memory in windows. 07:30:46 I'm happy with ff. It seems to stay at the same whatever one does. 07:31:27 about 1GB and then it just stays there. 07:31:39 I'm impressed with the windows stats there with just 100MB! 07:31:48 How well does lisp run on windows? 07:33:19 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.141.226] has joined #lisp 07:34:31 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 07:34:34 weirdo pasted "toadstool, the pattern matcher" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74669 07:35:19 it's still two times slower than ocaml 07:35:27 but it's probably due to consing 07:35:37 slap an n before everything 07:35:40 surely, it will be fine 07:36:53 i took mark tarver's algorithm verbatim 07:37:47 schme: sbcl hovers at around 200 megs, most of it "dynamically" allocated 07:38:35 weirdo: did you just hack out of anger? xkcd strikes again .. 07:40:15 weirdo: good job. That looks neat. 07:40:24 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 07:40:40 fusss, what do you mean? :) 07:40:48 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:41:02 you know WTF# I mean :-P 07:41:17 sorry, i really don't :) 07:41:44 need to wrap up a couple of loose ends and i'll release it to public domain 07:42:03 weirdo: nothin wrong with working on stuff further :D 07:44:33 weirdo: dunno, seems like you have been "inspired" by a certain comp.lang.lisp character, at least to the extent that you have stuff named "toadstool" and "harropify". or are you being sneaky? yes you are! 07:45:23 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:51:51 fusss, yeah, but actually, the pattern matcher has certain uses other than asking a certain individual to shut the f*k up 07:52:26 fusss, i've been thinking of using it to parse html 07:52:35 with some nice syntax like: 07:52:37 oh 07:53:06 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:53:16 (:a ((:href x)) name) -> ... 07:53:31 but i can't decide on a nice syntax for TOAD-CASE 07:55:03 got any ideas? :) i don't like the present one with "->" being very un-lispy 07:55:27 the trick is, it needs to support matching multiple values at once 07:55:42 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:57:30 clean parsing syntax, played with the SAX backend for closure-html yet? 07:58:13 you can have a clean syntax when you're parsing a clean input language. html in the wild might send you scratching your head quite a bit, although it's still doable. 07:58:27 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.163.174.42] has joined #lisp 07:58:33 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:59:33 -!- Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:00:27 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 08:01:16 fualo [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has joined #lisp 08:01:54 fusss, i'm talking about the syntax for TOAD-CASE 08:02:16 as for HTML, there's closure-html for parsing into nice sexp's 08:04:25 clhs &allow-other-keys 08:04:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_da.htm 08:06:45 -!- Lain [n=Lain@c-71-224-213-131.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:07:46 *Aankhen``* wonders if the use of backquotes to quote symbols in 7.6.5.1 is significant. 08:08:14 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:12:15 Looks like a typo to me. 08:15:21 Lain [n=Lain@c-71-224-213-131.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:51 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 08:18:25 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@247.sub-70-197-106.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection 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[n=roby@host190-245-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:28:11 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c41.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 09:28:51 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 09:29:56 elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has joined #lisp 09:30:20 spiderbyte: hello. i am the aforementioned dto. i learned elisp first then CL and still use them both. you can always ask questions here 09:30:40 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:30:54 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:31:05 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:28 spiderbyte: specific advice... read the manuals for both (the elisp manual in info, as well as the Draft ANSI CL standard) 09:32:20 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 09:36:35 As in (quote x) 09:36:39 oops. 09:38:05 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has quit [Remote closed the 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[n=user@nat/yahoo/x-e5c9ccbbc2677ea8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:00:13 dto: pleased to meet you =) heading for bed now, but will catch you around i'm sure. i'll dig in to the manuals, and i'm sure trial-and-error will aid with the clarity/distinction between the two. ;] ttyl 10:02:11 zzach [n=zzach@p50871306.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:03:38 -!- Lain [n=Lain@c-71-224-213-131.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 10:05:08 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:05:25 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-54-10.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 10:05:41 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-28-62.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 10:14:54 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-191-122.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 10:24:05 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:29:20 chris2 [n=chris@p5B169833.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:31:19 -!- 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12:02:02 hello beach 12:08:59 -!- momomo [n=user@p54924691.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 12:09:41 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-34.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:13:53 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:19:49 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 12:24:35 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 12:25:08 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.12.203] has joined #lisp 12:31:36 -!- Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:31:44 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 12:32:58 -!- cky [n=cky@202-74-211-197.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:33:26 laynor_ [n=laynor@host-84-221-137-9.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:35:00 -!- laynor_ is now known as laynor 12:36:15 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.141.226] has joined #lisp 12:36:50 -!- dwave [n=ask@062249179063.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 12:37:33 dwave [n=ask@062249179063.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 12:37:37 hi, I installed slime but I get no repl, emacs shows instead the *inferior-lisp* buffer. some help? 12:37:40 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:37:56 add (slime-setup '(slime-repl)) to .emacs 12:38:31 or slime-fancy instead of slime-repl for more features 12:38:39 stassats: thanks :) 12:40:28 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:42:28 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-185-175.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 12:43:39 -!- pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.50.5"] 12:47:11 *adityo* waves a HI to all lispers 12:50:02 *Quadrescence* gives adityo a REPL and a moist towelette. 12:50:11 -!- galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 12:56:06 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:04:59 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:42 rxvx [n=xd3n4@82-162-180-7.gprs.akos.ru] has joined #lisp 13:12:02 manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-2-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:12:27 -!- rxvx [n=xd3n4@82-162-180-7.gprs.akos.ru] has left #lisp 13:13:04 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D116.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:00 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@175.sub-70-196-12.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:16 Quadrescence: :-).. A REPL i can use.. 13:30:30 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 13:33:16 -!- gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:39:02 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:20 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:42:52 smartcoder [n=smartcod@c-98-229-48-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:36 -!- smartcoder [n=smartcod@c-98-229-48-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 13:47:01 -!- dwave [n=ask@062249179063.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [] 13:47:01 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:47:51 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:50:40 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:00 Cryogen [i=isis@akuma.no] has joined #lisp 13:52:03 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 13:52:49 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:03 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-0-96.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 13:53:13 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 13:53:54 -!- Cryovat [i=isis@akuma.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:53:54 -!- Cryogen is now known as Cryovat 13:55:13 pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has joined #lisp 14:03:28 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:00 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:29 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.141.226] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:06:13 kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:06:39 hello lispers 14:06:50 Hello presumably non-lisper. 14:06:54 hello kiuma 14:07:17 Quadrescence, me for sure :) 14:12:38 kiuma pasted "why do I have 'deleting unreacheable code' when C-c C-k the file ?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74676 14:13:19 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:37 kiuma: your with-open-file doesn't have any code in the body for starters. 14:14:34 beach, I wanted only something like touch 14:15:16 <_death> acquire-node-lock will always return nil 14:15:55 _death, ouch! thanks 14:17:52 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@243.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 14:21:11 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:22:17 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 14:23:50 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:29:07 josemanuel [n=josemanu@172.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:43:09 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 14:46:17 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:54:05 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 14:54:59 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:21 what happened to repl's bindings? 14:55:28 now even tracing's gone, nevermind slime-who-* 14:59:15 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:00:17 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:02:07 cp1134_ [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has joined #lisp 15:02:21 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 15:04:17 -!- cp1134 [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:09:19 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 15:10:04 weirdo: side-effects of removig repl from the core 15:11:36 adakkak_ [n=adakkak@c-98-212-194-70.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:08 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:19:10 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:42 gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:21:31 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 15:23:21 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:26:41 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:13 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:38:12 Wfm. Make sure you're on HEAD. 15:50:56 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B169833.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:51:03 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 15:52:14 khetzal [n=quetzal@2a01:e35:8b51:6f0:216:d4ff:fe2d:ffbe] has joined #lisp 15:52:20 hmm. now i'm dumbfounded 15:52:33 (list (and (* a) (* (satisfies #'print)))) 15:52:35 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:52:36 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:47 what's the reasonable behavior for this pattern? 15:53:27 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:27 what's the pattern matcher in question? 15:53:33 cmm, mine 15:53:39 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0C4A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:39 it's supposed to match the end of the list for both cases, right? 15:53:59 how would anyone else know? 15:55:25 heh. neverending development cycle 15:55:29 it should signal an error 15:55:38 perhaps there is in fact some merit in "worse is better" 15:55:44 satisfies takes symbols 15:55:55 that's not a type specifier 15:56:02 that's a "form" and an "operator" at that 15:57:02 let's just say that the meaning of (satisfied #'print) is not what I would call self-evident 15:57:52 presently it matches correctly. since AND can't guarantee destructuring patterns match the same number of elements 15:58:57 and only the last expression "knows" about the continuation of list-form that checks for the end of the list 16:00:11 (list (* (and a (satisfies #'print)))) should work as expected. instead of getting angry and rewriting everything *again*, i'm going to document it as a bug *shiver* 16:01:39 stupid destructuring patterns (aka kleene-star) adding helluva complexity. but it's too cool a feature to just skip it 16:03:56 htk [n=hilmi@85.110.248.86] has joined #lisp 16:04:04 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@110-119-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:37 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@110-119-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:10:50 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:55 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D1AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:11:37 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:14:45 aryeskan [n=arya@ip98-169-52-72.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:47 user___ [n=user@p54924691.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:58 -!- aryeskan [n=arya@ip98-169-52-72.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #lisp 16:18:04 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:18:09 aryeskan [n=arya@ip98-169-52-72.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:57 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has left #lisp 16:19:01 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 16:19:06 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:20:16 -!- htk [n=hilmi@85.110.248.86] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:21:12 I want to learn common lisp. What are some good books or websites that will teach me lisp? I already have programming experience in c and java. 16:21:38 aryeskan, practical common lisp is pretty nice, it's available on the net 16:22:00 aryeskan:http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 16:22:05 thanks 16:22:52 -!- khetzal is now known as quetzal 16:23:08 -!- quetzal is now known as khetzal 16:23:22 -!- khetzal [n=quetzal@2a01:e35:8b51:6f0:216:d4ff:fe2d:ffbe] has left #lisp 16:23:42 aryeskan: what made you decide to learn Lisp? 16:24:20 I was getting bored with java, and someone reccomended lisp as an interesting language to learn 16:25:20 That someone was right :) 16:27:03 If only all Java users were as easy to convert.. :) 16:27:51 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:28:05 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:27 the things you can do in lisp seem pretty cool 16:29:14 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:29:43 Yeah, http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/features.text (see also http://abhishek.geek.nz/docs/features-of-common-lisp). 16:31:54 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:31:56 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:09 kuwabara pasted "why does sbcl need to open a .bin ?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74680 16:33:52 -!- user___ [n=user@p54924691.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 16:34:33 kuwabara: What's that? 16:35:40 schme: a BACKTRACE from an app trying to compile itself with SBCL 16:36:08 Ok.. 16:36:14 at some point is runs a COMPILE on a .lisp file. But SBCL tries to open a .bin file. I don't understand where this filename comes from 16:36:28 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:36:30 Well maybe that there app is written that way. 16:37:28 oh, you mean the .bin is unrelated to the way SBCL internally works when compiling a lisp file ? 16:38:16 kuwabara: compile-file takes a keyword argument that names the output file. 16:38:24 clhs compile-file 16:38:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp_fi.htm 16:38:44 I really don't know. I have never seen a .bin though, so I am placing my money on it being so. 16:38:54 Actually I'll place my money on whatever beach is saying :) 16:39:07 (unless it's wrong) 16:39:08 beach: ok, but here, the compile-file has only one argument: the path to the .lisp 16:41:32 I have convinced myself it's just your app :) 16:41:43 kuwabara: I have no explanation then. 16:42:20 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:43:08 kuwabara: Also the path there is different for the .bin, something must be setting it. 16:43:24 is return-from in functions considered bad style? (using it for termination of a recursive call.) 16:43:30 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:43:31 schme: I was convinced about this before even asking. What I am looking for is an explanation about when and why SBCL, when asked for a COMPILE, does try to open a .bin. 16:43:43 tic: no 16:44:01 schme: indeed. Do you know how this path can be set, so I have something to look for ? 16:44:13 tic: so you recurse in a local function? 16:45:10 kuwabara: Well I'd assume one hands COMPILE-FILE an output-file. But your app assumably does something else :) 16:45:11 <_death> tic: it depends :) 16:46:02 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 16:46:05 ok, thanks. back to the code... 16:46:58 <_death> kuwabara: Lisp makes it easy to run arbitrary code in compile-time.. it's likely that boot.lisp does that.. did you look at the file? 16:50:24 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:51:25 _death: it's not visible prima facie, but I'll dig this way, thanks. 16:52:54 kuwabara: Get a big shovel! 16:53:29 beach, I don't. should return be used instead? (defun foo (...) (when something-p (return-from foo bar)) ...) 16:54:38 tic: In this case I'd use RETURN because RETURN-FROM tends to be convoluted. 16:55:33 If you're nested some more, I'd perhaps rather resort to an explicit RETURN-FROM not get caught by some implicit block. 16:56:13 OK, thanks! 16:57:24 tic: you will only return from the most recent invocation if you do that. I thought the purpose was to collapse a stack of recursive calls. 16:57:51 I also sometimes use (tagbody ... (when ... (go RETURN-A)) (when ... (go RETURN-B)) ... normal code ... (return default) RETURN-A (return A) RETURN-B (return B)) 16:58:14 so all three return values are stuffed at the same place 16:59:39 beach, nope, I just want to make the code a bit clearer, i.e. not have a huge IF around everything. 16:59:47 (i.e. just the recent invocation.) 17:00:13 tic: OK, I misunderstood "termination of a recursive call". 17:01:16 ouch. 17:02:39 tsv [n=tsv@92-237-136-172.cable.ubr16.aztw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:03:21 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has joined #lisp 17:07:16 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:11:41 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:11:55 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:27 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:14:10 X-Scale [i=email@89-180-64-237.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 17:15:09 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 17:16:26 ml` [n=milan@port-92-192-62-89.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:19:14 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c41.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 17:20:57 xvx [n=user01@189.228.207.146] has joined #lisp 17:23:25 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has quit ["Leaving..."] 17:28:26 malu__ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4aa4.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 17:28:59 vixey [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:30:53 -!- vixey [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 17:32:48 hi all, should the following work?: (pathname :WILD) 17:33:02 in sbcl/abcl it doesn't, in clisp it apparently does 17:34:50 it is undefined behaviour according to the standard 17:34:55 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c41.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:08 so an implementation can do as it pleases 17:35:20 thanks 17:35:41 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4aa4.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 17:38:27 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 17:45:33 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c41.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:45:47 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4aa4.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 17:47:48 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 17:50:54 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-159-140.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:58:02 gnite 17:58:38 *adityo* yawns...says good nite 17:58:43 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.12.203] has left #lisp 17:59:56 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 18:01:33 vy [n=user@88.229.118.74] has joined #lisp 18:03:23 -!- malu__ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4aa4.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:05:23 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4aa4.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:13:30 jao [n=user@20.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:55 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:17:35 fualo [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has joined #lisp 18:17:53 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:20:26 Hmm, still not possible to set the topic? 18:23:21 CFFI 0.10.4 is out, whoo hoo. 18:24:46 Anyway, can someone point me at where CONS is defined SBCL? I see the DEFKNOWN, I was expecting a DEFTRANSFORM, but I can't find it for some reason. 18:26:52 it's probably in early-objdef.lisp 18:26:59 something extremely primitive 18:27:32 define-primitive-object cons is what you're looking for 18:29:08 There it is, in objdef.lisp, thanks. 18:30:22 kitfrog [n=kitfrog@87.127.79.93] has joined #lisp 18:35:14 -!- kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:42:34 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:53 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:46:06 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.17] has joined #lisp 18:49:31 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:49:55 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:49:57 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:54 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 18:55:01 -!- tsv [n=tsv@92-237-136-172.cable.ubr16.aztw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:58:08 user___ [n=user@p54924691.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:07 mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:10 good evening 18:59:26 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:00:19 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [] 19:02:02 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:07 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-0-96.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:05:01 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:50 Heh, dynamc_space_free_pointer==0 is obviously going to fail. 19:18:57 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:24:53 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:24:57 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has joined #lisp 19:25:45 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 19:29:06 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-154-0.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:29:44 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:30:28 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-171.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:33:49 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 19:37:20 I'm reading on an SBCL streamized socket, when there is no data left on the wire, READ-SEQUENCE blocks. Any ideas about how can I make it abort somehow? 19:38:02 streams are suppose to block 19:39:02 This doesn't give an explanation to the rationale behind that there is no INPUT-AVAILABLE-P function available. 19:39:06 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-171.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:39:09 if you want non-blocking I/O, use non-blocking fds and read()/recv() 19:39:37 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-171.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:40:21 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 19:41:30 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 19:41:49 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:28 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:44:59 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-114.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:45:46 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-171.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:46:32 vy: it's called LISTEN. 19:47:46 hefner: I know about listen(2), but AFAIK, SBCL doesn't supply some sort of API to listen(2). Am I wrong? 19:47:46 in theory, anyway 19:47:57 clhs listen 19:47:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_listen.htm 19:48:01 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:48:05 This is incredibly aggravating... I'm compiling something, and it keeps moaning at me about 'There is no class named X'. I manually load the class, I see it compile and load -- still the same thing. I double-check the in-package, I check that it got loaded by asdf, I load it manually. No go. It refuses to find that class. Help? 19:48:41 the listen syscall obviously doesn't do what you want 19:48:52 sykopomp: I smell a package problem here 19:49:57 stassats: You have a point1 19:50:31 vy: that's what hefner said, i believe 19:50:31 fe[nl]ix: me too... I'm confused. I closed the file and opened it again, and now it works. Color me confused :-\ 19:50:40 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host190-245-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 19:50:56 stassats: I thought he was refering to listen(2) call, my bad. 19:51:13 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-175.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:51:41 In CLHS, it tells that "[LISTEN] Returns true if there is a character immediately available from input-stream; otherwise, returns false." What about available bytes, instead of characters? 19:51:44 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:51:51 sykopomp: slime might have been confused about the file's package. unlikely, though 19:52:14 read one character 19:52:23 vy: who knows? try it and see. 19:52:46 hefner: I'll... But I was suspicious about other CL implementations' behaviours. 19:52:55 screw'em 19:52:56 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #lisp 19:55:17 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:55:22 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 19:55:23 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:04 fe[nl]ix: yeah. I have no idea what happened, but it was very confusing... it seems to be okay now, though. 19:56:31 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-229.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:56:45 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:58:23 <_death> sykopomp: should've posted a dribble log 20:03:53 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:03:54 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 20:05:29 -!- kitfrog [n=kitfrog@87.127.79.93] has quit ["See ya!"] 20:05:36 christoph_debian [n=christop@p549B7639.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:39 -!- mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:07:21 hm anyone an idea why debian's cmucl and sbcl tell me that uffi is not an module while cl-uffi is installed? 20:08:34 i got a better idea: don't use lisp packages from debian 20:09:16 stassats, why so? 20:09:45 They're more trouble than it's worth. 20:09:47 christoph_debian: well, your first question is the answer 20:10:19 hm ok 20:12:26 -!- aryeskan [n=arya@ip98-169-52-72.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #lisp 20:15:34 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.17] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:16:19 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:20:45 -!- user___ [n=user@p54924691.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:21:45 -!- adakkak_ [n=adakkak@c-98-212-194-70.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:22:40 hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279775342.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:23:24 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279775342.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:28:04 christoph_debian: using lisp packages from any distribution tends to be a bigger hassle than it's worth, even in Arch and Gentoo 20:30:42 sykopomp: I disagree 20:31:36 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.163.174.42] has quit ["(syamajala) hmm (syamajala) i have a problem (nyef) syamajala: Use regular expressions!"] 20:31:46 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 20:32:17 fe[nl]ix: considering how common it is to not actually release packages, and the dependence on having to have some package maintainer update packages for you, I think it's not worth the trouble when I could just have a directory in ~ that I could pull stuff into. 20:32:51 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 20:33:27 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:36:13 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:18 sykopomp, hm but uffi/cffi is packaged anyway so this could not be the issue 20:37:07 christoph_debian: particularly on debian, there's issues with having up-to-date versions of libraries. 20:37:27 christoph_debian: try installing u/cffi manually and seeing if it works. 20:40:15 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@172.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 20:40:20 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 20:43:23 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:18 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:27 -!- vy [n=user@88.229.118.74] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:46:45 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:49:09 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has left #lisp 20:51:20 christoph_debian: I recommend clbuild 20:56:03 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-125-152.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 20:57:52 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:00:20 dewszaq [n=peterbb@95.34.19.45.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:00:47 goodger [n=ben@host81-152-233-2.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:04 hello 21:01:16 would anyone care to explain why using debian packages of lisp is not advisable? 21:08:50 goodger: at the time when i gave up on them (~2-3 years ago) common-lisp-controller was the source of more headache than help 21:09:31 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:12:20 hmm, very well 21:12:25 *_8david* likes the gentoo lisp overlay 21:13:28 bye 21:13:30 -!- goodger [n=ben@host81-152-233-2.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 21:19:39 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-2-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 21:20:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-105.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:23:56 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-169.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:24:13 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:56 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:32:50 -!- voidpointer [n=voidpoin@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has quit ["re-start evilwm"] 21:35:04 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:58 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:36:11 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 21:37:28 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 21:39:50 voidpointer [n=voidpoin@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has joined #lisp 21:43:42 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:54 hi Fare 21:44:45 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:49 fe[nl]ix, hi -- I'm writing the article on CL pathnames 21:44:58 cool 21:46:49 what happened w/ iolib and osicat? you stopped using it? 21:48:28 I engulfed it 21:50:09 so no more osicat, only a bloateder iolib? 21:50:29 ..why does iolib have to access the filesystem? 21:50:41 how can it not 21:50:42 ? 21:51:22 hefner: the stream layer will have file streams too 21:51:43 okay, that makes sense 21:51:46 Fare: no more bloated than the previous iolib+osicat 21:52:03 hefner, how can you epoll without access to file descriptors? 21:52:03 -!- fualo [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:52:09 fualo [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has joined #lisp 21:52:21 fe[nl]ix, was only meant as a figure of speech. Where there other users of osicat? 21:52:53 is that a friendly takeover or a hostile takeover? 21:52:57 heh 21:53:05 it keeps growing 21:53:21 mle: laser surgery will rid you of it. What is it? 21:53:34 was talking about iolib 21:53:37 fualo_ [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has joined #lisp 21:54:07 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:54:09 Fare: the point is that I want the OS layer to use the new pathname library giving me a dep graph osicat->iolib->osicat. my two choinces to resolve this circularity were to either split iolib or swallow osicat ^_^ 21:54:38 good luck with the digestion :) 21:55:10 Fare: I don't think there were other users 21:55:15 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-163-230.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:21 so - to sum it up, to me (1) pathnames should be kept in system-native format, whatever that is. 21:55:24 and as sole active developer of osicat, the takeover was friendly 21:55:26 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 21:55:32 I'm friendly to myself :D 21:55:50 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 21:56:27 Fare: if iolib created the descriptors in question, you wouldn't need another library to 'access' them, but I made that remark without any idea how iolib might be using osicat 21:56:49 (2) since many people want to know whether a name refers to a directory, file, something else, a symlink (to one of the previous), etc -- an abstract iterator should also provide access to that information. 21:57:24 fe[nl]ix, congrats - a lot of people cannot truthfully say that of themselves. 21:57:37 I'll note again that iolib's everything and the kitchen sink philosophy makes me nervous 21:57:41 -!- realtime [i=sabbath@189.72.27.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:57:48 realtime [i=sabbath@189.72.27.133] has joined #lisp 21:58:09 hefner, well iolib tries to abstract away the OS. The OS is a kitchen sink. ergo... 21:58:59 I thought its aspirations included not only the OS, but every network protocol used in the last thirty years 21:59:03 not abstract away. Rather, interface in a sensible way. 21:59:23 hefner, depends what you call "the OS". 21:59:37 hefner: I'm only writing a better version of what's in the CL standard 21:59:45 a lot of the OS interfaces only make sense in terms of higher-level things. 22:00:03 there isn't much more than that, except for the FD multiplexer 22:00:15 for instance -- DNS handling is necessary to make sense of a lot of TCP stuff, but... 22:00:55 hefner: I've changed objective. I may add http(s) and smtp, but I'm not interested in more than that 22:01:01 not any more, anyway 22:01:27 fe[nl]ix, even http(s) and smtp can probably be kept as a separate layer. Hopefully. 22:01:58 (don't drakma and cl-post-office or something do that well already?) 22:02:05 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:02:40 -!- christoph_debian [n=christop@p549B7639.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 22:02:41 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:04:18 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:04:37 Fare: nope 22:04:49 fe[nl]ix, what's wrong with them? 22:04:58 they're not written by me 22:05:06 (I haven't looked at any https or smtp cl library) 22:05:18 neither is the CL compiler, yet you use it 22:05:22 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:05:34 just wait a few more years 22:06:01 hehe 22:06:13 you'll look like Chuck Moore 22:06:25 running stuff on your own chips, designed with your own CAD. 22:06:34 next step would be building your own fab. 22:06:52 -!- moocow [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:06:56 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:06:58 (so that the chinese spooks don't hack your designs) 22:07:03 on my own little asteroid :) 22:07:06 friends of mine could provide a reprap to bootstrap off of 22:07:44 reprap? 22:08:15 homebrew plastic extrusion thing 22:08:20 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-236-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:08:24 3d printer, with desire for self replication 22:08:26 fluid deposition or whatever it's called 22:08:26 like a fab@home, but cheaper and it can produce its own spare parts (: 22:08:41 *hefner* will be impressed when reprap can produce its own computer chips 22:08:57 -!- fualo [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has quit [No route to host] 22:09:00 The problem I have with kitch-sink project is that if you see that another project depends on it, you don't know what it depends on really. I don't mind umbrella projects as long as it's modularized in different packages, and systems. 22:09:15 well, there are plans for circuit board printing. next stop is chips, surely 22:09:16 hefner, I'm sure the NSA is working on that. *They* can't trust chinese-made computers. 22:09:48 Just make plastic vacuum tubes 22:09:50 I don't trust them either, after they added a windows key to my favorite laptops 22:10:11 tcr: the systems are different, but I prefer not having to deal with different repositories 22:10:12 tcr: how do you separate pathnames from fileaccess from polling fds? 22:10:34 hefner, windows key? 22:11:16 "trusted computing" -- "*microsoft* can trust "your" laptop" 22:11:16 I don't know why I've always used C-_ for undo. C-/ is so much nicer ;-\ 22:11:28 of the modifier variety (I claim it is the end times, for there are no usable laptops manufactured anymore) 22:11:30 Depends on your keyboard layout 22:11:36 heretic: C-/ is for completion! 22:11:48 M-/ is for completion 22:11:55 oh, sorry 22:11:58 :P 22:12:05 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:12:07 hefner, no usable laptop? I'm happy with my X300! 22:12:58 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 22:14:18 -!- Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:27 *hefner* remains skeptical 22:17:01 what's wrong with my X300 that I don't know about? 22:17:19 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:17:43 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has joined #lisp 22:18:23 the little bit of sabotage they slipped in between control and alt 22:19:48 *hefner* feels obligated to be completely unreasonable about this, because his various T40s are the only laptops he's ever been able to use emacs comfortably on 22:20:01 hefner, you mean super? 22:20:11 or is it hyper? 22:20:16 or multikey 22:20:40 there's that annoying Fn key that a lot of laptops have... 22:20:43 it's quite annoying 22:23:10 lilttle bit of lisp in my last blog post 22:23:11 http://ruinwesen.com/blog?id=387 22:23:25 actually, on the X300, Fn and the "light keyboard" Fn-key are nicely at opposite extremities of the keyboard 22:23:37 so even in the dark, you can't miss that functionality 22:24:15 too bad they don't have the good sense to move it somewhere else entirely 22:24:26 X-Scale2 [i=email@89.180.73.89] has joined #lisp 22:25:07 took me less than a day to get used to Fn. These are the easy issues. 22:27:53 if I am to be stationed somewhere I bring a regular keyboard. 22:28:10 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-27-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 22:29:02 I have an SL300. the keyboard is quite reasonable. 22:29:33 it is not an ultra-portable, however. 22:33:01 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89-180-64-237.net.novis.pt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:33:04 -!- X-Scale2 is now known as X-Scale 22:34:05 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-201-33-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:35:11 eevar_ [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:00 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:01 Beket [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:37:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit ["going to moon brb"] 22:38:06 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 22:39:36 the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:16 stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:40:27 -!- stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:42:23 manuel_: that's an interesting article. 22:42:50 not really much info yet, but i will put some more interesting stuff in the next post 22:43:11 which cl were you using? 22:43:22 sbcl 22:43:38 *nod* 22:43:38 but i'm using clisp under windows 22:43:45 not really much implementation dependent stuff in there 22:47:37 what kind of mill is that? 22:47:44 -!- Mannerisky [n=Manneris@24-117-137-23.cpe.cableone.net] has left #lisp 22:48:03 small 3 axis cnc mill 22:48:20 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 22:48:25 yeah, i can see that. i was wondering who manufactured it. 22:48:32 oh, easgmbh 22:48:38 http://easgmbh.de/ 22:48:43 thanks 22:48:43 rswarbrick [n=user@cpc2-cove3-0-0-cust513.sol2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 22:49:41 Mannerisky [n=Manneris@24-117-137-23.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:21 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:37 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:23 -!- eevar [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:20 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:54:57 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-125-152.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:56:11 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-34.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:56:32 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4aa4.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 22:57:39 -!- the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:05:32 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:05:52 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 23:12:22 any folks here interested in hacking on a small interactive graphical library ? (which might build over cl-opengl) 23:13:33 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:16:20 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:25 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 23:36:49 Dawgmatix any more details ? 23:40:22 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 23:41:12 heyy xristos, were trying to hash this out in lambda3d, join in :) 23:42:20 Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-3-168.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:44:07 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 23:48:42 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 23:49:58 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["Nighty"] 23:50:15 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:20 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:54:47 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 23:55:52 ferada [n=user@e179235089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:58:08 madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.117] has joined #lisp 23:59:13 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp