00:00:56 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 00:03:50 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:27 -!- cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:05:10 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:08:06 mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has joined #lisp 00:12:13 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:12:13 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has left #lisp 00:14:02 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcg171.osnanet.de] has quit ["http://github.com/bakkdoor/rswing/"] 00:15:17 z0d pasted "Is it reasonable?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74055 00:17:45 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-121-51.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:53 good evening 00:17:59 fusss 00:18:12 hey z0d :-) 00:18:24 been messing around with YUI 00:18:40 sweet but slow javascript library, imo 00:19:16 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-41f43f55eb5510b7] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:19:20 it seems like everyone took their software engineering background and dumped it all on javascript 00:20:01 is that a JS framework? 00:20:30 just a bunch of useful tools, it's all modular and you can choose to use tiny bits and pieces of it 00:20:52 gui toolkit + helper functions for DOM and other stuff 00:21:11 aggieben_ [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 00:21:59 and they had the foresight to build in UI styling/theming; an afternoon in gimp can make your web app look like Gtk :-) 00:21:59 fusss: BTW, could you please look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74055 ? 00:22:00 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:22:53 ahh, an after method for initialize-method 00:23:01 didnt' someone jump at your throat for that? 00:23:03 <_3b> wonder if adding a loop would take more code than repeating (bonus foo) 6 times 00:23:27 _3b: with dolist I wasn't able to make it work 00:23:59 because bonus always got the symbol of dolist's variable 00:24:17 <_3b> put the loop in bonus i mean 00:24:55 I thought about that 00:25:01 too. 00:25:26 <_3b> (bonus (types) `(progn ,@(loop for type in types collect `(...)))) 00:25:35 z0d: what is the supposed to do? 00:25:49 <_3b> probably adds more tokens than it saves depending on how you count parens though 00:26:08 str, con, etc. are just constants jumping out of nowhere; are you sure you wanna do that in an after method? 00:26:46 <_3b> also, why (funcall ',type ...) instead of (,type ...) ? 00:26:47 fusss: calculate the values for -mod, which depends on 00:27:02 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:27:12 _3b: I didn't know you can do that 00:28:57 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [] 00:29:18 _3b: progn and ,@ is needed because we 'return' multiple forms? 00:29:37 <_3b> to avoid returning multiple forms, yeah 00:29:44 fusss: How would you make sure that the *-mod slots are fill-in on initialization according to the * slots? 00:30:10 <_3b> do the *-mod slots change independently? 00:30:41 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 00:30:59 No. they are based on the * slots 00:31:14 <_3b> you could just calculate them as needed then 00:31:52 That was my first idea, but I don't want to write (ability-modifier (... score)) all over the source 00:32:04 So I thought a slot would do 00:32:20 <_3b> well, you could write a macro to write them for you :) 00:32:25 Because it's shorter to do (...-mod score) 00:32:38 That's true. 00:32:50 In fact, that's better. 00:32:59 <_3b> and i meant (defgeneric str-mod (foo) (ability-modifier (str foo))) anyway 00:33:08 <_3b> which looks the same as the slots 00:33:27 <_3b> and have the macros write that 00:33:37 Thanks. 00:33:46 I should have figured that. 00:35:00 But at least I wrote a working macro. 00:35:20 Though some may consider it a sin. 00:35:48 <_3b> yeah, learning to write macros is an important skill, but learning not to write them is at least as important :) 00:36:09 z0d: hey, sorry was on the phone (not that i could've helped :-P) 00:38:14 _3b: you mean s/generic/method/ ? 00:38:27 jlilly [n=nnjlilly@mail.justinlilly.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:51 -!- aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:42:00 <_3b> yeah, that would probably work better :) 00:42:11 -!- aggieben_ [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:42:43 <_3b> (or fix the body instead so it works in a defgeneric) 00:42:46 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 00:43:47 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:07 -!- spec_afk [n=noOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["c Ya"] 00:45:41 *nyef* dislikes the completely useless behavior his system has when the battery reaches critical levels... It waits until the battery is flat, and does an uncontrolled shutdown. 00:46:04 It couldn't do something -useful-, like s2ram when it hits 5% or anything, no... 00:46:33 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:47:43 nyef: what OS? 00:47:47 Linux. 00:47:56 oh, yeah probably just broken then. :) 00:48:12 Well, that would be the task of the desktop environment. 00:48:14 if it was win or mac, i'd say it was because your battery was miscalibrated and not reporting its level properly 00:48:29 z0d: seriously??? 00:48:34 z0d: What I get for using xfce, huh? 00:48:40 linux gets more broken every day, I guess... 00:49:06 Now the disk is making interesting noises, hopefully just due to the fsck access pattern. 00:49:41 3 years from now we will all be using Webdows, served from a cloud farm in redomond 00:50:03 -!- ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-131-184.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:50:42 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-131-184.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:13 _3b: What do you win by fixing defgeneric? There's only one kind of instance. Can you specialize on its slots? 00:53:05 <_3b> z0d: not much, unless you have some reason to want the explicit defgeneric form instead of implicitly creating one with defmethod 00:53:53 <_3b> z0d: you can specify methods inside a defgeneric, which is what i was referring to 00:54:49 sellout [n=greg@SLOAN-SIXTY-FIVE.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:55:32 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-236-34.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:55:50 _3b: I don't understand your last sentence. 00:56:02 You mean, inside the defgeneric form? 00:56:06 <_3b> yeah 00:56:52 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D156.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:56:59 <_3b> (defgeneric foo (a) (:method (a) (do something))) 00:57:08 <_3b> or something like that 00:57:41 <_3b> instead of (defgeneric foo (a)) (defmethod foo (a) (do something)) 00:58:18 Do you write out defgenerics? It explicitly created, isn't it? 00:58:49 <_3b> i do sometimes, i don't remember when it matters though 00:58:49 I don't see it in most codes (which doesn't make it the preferred way though). 00:58:53 Beeet [n=stathis@ppp12-241.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 00:58:56 it's nice to write defgenerics to fill out docstrings 00:59:16 <_3b> yeah, docstrings is probably the most useful reason 00:59:17 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:59:37 <_3b> i think they behave slightly differently for redefinitions too, though that might be platform specific 01:00:01 <_3b> (differently for stuff like warnings at least) 01:06:55 -!- jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:10:03 z0d annotated #74055 with "How does that look like?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74055#1 01:11:46 <_3b> might want intern instead of find-symbol 01:12:06 Right. 01:12:28 So I'm looking to start using revision control for my code, which tool is a good place to start? I read some stuff about git and that sounds cool, I also noticed a lot of people seem to use darcs and it seemed like a good choice maybe as well but I'm a bit swamped by choice 01:13:10 <_3b> git seems to have momentum, but isn't always the most obvious UI 01:13:13 kzar: darcs it very simple, try it first 01:13:34 <_3b> darcs sounded good, but got annoying once i used it a bit :/ 01:14:38 It always seemed like this thing that people are really opinionated about, I can't really be arsed to try them all though as it's quite a boring tool in a way. I might just go with git because of the name for now heh 01:14:56 Unless something has changed, git has better emacs integration. 01:15:11 -!- slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:15:25 franZlisp [n=francesc@ip-26-7.sn1.eutelia.it] has joined #lisp 01:15:34 -!- franZlisp [n=francesc@ip-26-7.sn1.eutelia.it] has left #lisp 01:16:34 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-121-51.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:16:59 ahaas: Hmm that's good to know I guess I will go for that 01:17:03 Can't SLIME macroexpand local macros? 01:17:43 c-m 01:17:58 -!- Jarvellis is now known as djarvelis 01:18:04 oops 01:18:41 c-c m I think actually z0d 01:19:01 oh dear c-c c-m .. not awake sorry 01:19:02 *_3b* thought it could, but can't get it to now 01:21:32 kzar: macroexpand is C-c , macroexpand-all is C-c M-m, but neither expands my local macro. 01:25:13 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:30:07 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:30:23 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:37 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:35:54 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:51:23 -!- sellout [n=greg@SLOAN-SIXTY-FIVE.MIT.EDU] has quit [] 01:55:58 GoD|Hansel [n=user@cpe-66-65-25-217.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:57:55 -!- GoD|Hansel [n=user@cpe-66-65-25-217.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 02:04:43 clhs ~ 02:04:43 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for ~. 02:04:47 clhs ~x 02:04:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cbe.htm 02:07:21 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:07:57 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:57 Is there a format directive which output 4th for 4 and not fourth? 02:09:54 If there is, I'd expect it to be some variant on ~R. 02:10:18 Hrm. 02:10:24 That's where I looked for it too. 02:10:45 I just found it hard to believe that there's "fourth", but not 4th. 02:11:25 I don't. 02:11:37 They don't do chinese numerals either :( 02:11:53 Lazy buggers. 02:12:56 And what on earth is supposed to happen when you pass something not (> 0 something 5000) to ~@R ? 02:13:17 Or, worse, ~:@R ? 02:13:48 -!- Beeet [n=stathis@ppp12-241.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:14:07 Number too large to print in Roman numerals: 12,222 02:14:11 on SBCL at least 02:14:13 simple-error 02:14:53 But yeah, it's not specified by the HS 02:15:08 I mean, sure, it's useful for those writing text-processing applications, but it's under-specified, and it's obviously one of those feeping creature things. 02:16:30 you can't write roman numeral greater then 4000 without tricks, seems pretty obvious to me 02:17:26 Shouldn't that be 3999, not 4000? 02:17:33 Oh, you just need barred numerals. 02:17:51 Heh. And that's a stream encoding error just -waiting- to happen. 02:17:54 The bar is a x1000 multiplier. 02:18:09 nyef: "greater then or equal" then 02:20:07 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-196-139.we.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:49 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #lisp 02:25:08 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 02:30:46 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:32:17 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:33:43 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 02:37:11 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-196-139.we.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:39:56 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-233.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 02:46:36 -!- netaustin [n=austinsm@rrcs-72-43-187-82.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 02:59:32 zenbalrog [n=johnnyc@adsl-69-149-229-117.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 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(Connection timed out)] 03:36:57 g'day 03:37:07 Hi. 03:37:15 ey z0d 03:39:02 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 03:43:33 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 03:43:54 mique` [n=mique`@host192-97-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:44:25 -!- mique` [n=mique`@host192-97-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 03:45:03 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has joined #lisp 03:45:54 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:46:57 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 03:48:32 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:58 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:55:44 hsaliak` [n=user@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:01:26 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139] has quit 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[n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:52:06 hi, I need to serialize a class of clos objects. And I want to use make-load-form-saving-slots, is there any examples for me to follow? 04:52:48 clhs make-load-form-saving-slots 04:52:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_l_1.htm 04:53:50 Are you writing your own serializations function? 04:53:50 er... I think I already know that. 04:53:55 z0d: yeah. 04:55:23 huangjs: I had to look it up myself. 04:58:18 -!- yoonkn [n=yoonkn@210.108.170.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:59:14 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 05:06:56 yoonkn [n=yoonkn@210.108.170.71] has joined #lisp 05:12:35 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:14:33 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:39 Anyone here use adw-charting? 05:19:04 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:27 segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1C9A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:43 deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 05:24:41 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1FED1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:31:57 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:35:35 Good morning. 05:35:37 -!- mjonsson [n=mjonsson@66-234-42-93.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:37:02 mornin' beach. 05:37:51 beach: should I force generic function definition, so methods always dispatch on the same number of arguments, or allow for freeform method definition where any number of methods can have different-length lambda-lists that dispatch differently? 05:38:01 both are possible 05:38:35 random, unimportant question. Sorry if it's just silly. 05:42:36 I think it is mainly a question of performance. 05:43:32 it's a prototype object system. The backend for both of these options would basically be the same. 05:44:39 the dispatch algorithm can actually handle variable-length lambda-lists/specializers. 05:44:42 hikozaemon [n=hikozaem@27.183.244.43.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:45:13 I am sure there are algorithms like that, but you may or may not worry about their performance. 05:45:36 -!- hikozaemon [n=hikozaem@27.183.244.43.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 05:45:41 yeah, that's a concern. Particularly with prototypes :| 05:46:00 You also need to think about the semantics, i.e. what method is more special when two or more methods are applicable. 05:46:23 algorithm handles that (I'm basing it on Slate's) 05:48:40 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 05:51:44 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:53:14 Scheduler [n=user@www.zawyagame.com] has joined #lisp 05:54:13 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:00:15 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:01:15 -!- Scheduler [n=user@www.zawyagame.com] has quit [] 06:03:59 -!- gtasso [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-907f59a8a04ef1b0] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 06:04:37 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:44 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:04:59 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 06:18:54 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:19:27 good morning to all 06:27:43 Hi. 06:31:36 -!- V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fecade00-157.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:36:39 V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fecade00-157.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:38:20 -!- aparatchik [n=nonamme@h-68-167-68-63.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:40:47 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 06:45:35 http://web.mac.com/jimbokun/iWeb/Site/Blog/AB35C167-7755-4113-938C-968F65256D76.html "Pick Arc if: You want a 100 year language and you're willing to wait that long" 06:45:38 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 06:46:07 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.226.125] has joined #lisp 06:47:35 dex [n=dex@201-167-88-106-cable.cybercable.net.mx] has joined #lisp 06:53:03 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:00:17 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:00:58 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.251.151] has joined #lisp 07:03:48 -!- roconnor [n=roconnor@206-248-135-96.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:09:17 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-119-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:04 Ragnaroek [i=54a63f51@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f51916d484475f6f] has joined #lisp 07:19:14 cmo-0 [n=user@92.99.26.154] has joined #lisp 07:19:50 elurin [n=user@85.99.69.218] has joined #lisp 07:25:41 roconnor [n=roconnor@206-248-135-96.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 07:26:55 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:28:21 krimpet [n=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has joined #lisp 07:28:44 brill [n=brill@193.3.8.1] has joined #lisp 07:30:32 -!- brill [n=brill@193.3.8.1] has quit [Client Quit] 07:33:42 beach, latest stumpwm lists AltGr as working. I haven't checked yet in the logs what their problem was, but seeing how I have the same problem with Climacs, there might be something in common. 07:34:15 evening 07:37:49 benny [n=benny@i577A02D2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:39:22 brill [n=brill@0x57386060.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:40:57 -!- schmx [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:42:54 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:05 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 07:52:31 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 07:56:38 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-119-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:57:09 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:57:36 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:01:44 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 08:03:49 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:05:18 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:11:07 binarin [n=user@gwn.alt1.ru] has joined #lisp 08:13:04 morning 08:14:47 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:51 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:19 morning, Krystof. 08:17:58 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 08:19:18 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:20:08 -!- roconnor [n=roconnor@206-248-135-96.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:22:42 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4e9a.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:25:26 -!- djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:26:52 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:28:05 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:31:11 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 08:31:19 -!- Jarv2 is now known as djarvelis 08:32:11 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:23 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:37:05 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 08:39:28 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 08:41:24 anyone has idea how to speedup double float output in CL? I need to print millions of double floats into text format. The profiling shows that 80% of time is used in double-float-to-string. 08:42:16 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 08:44:40 and my program is 3x slower than a similar C program (which uses printf I think)... 08:45:12 does your similar C program actually guarantee read-print consistency (and do you care?) 08:45:38 Krystof: what do you mean by read-print consistency? 08:46:22 that you get exactly the same value if you read back the floats that you print 08:48:16 Krystof: er...I think it's ok. if the difference of one print-read is about the minimal precision of a double-float 08:48:20 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:58 I'd be impressed enough that it was only 3x slower 08:50:34 perhaps my poor impression of CL IO is partly due to time lost watching output trickle into an emacs buffer at teletype speed 08:50:48 huangjs, Why would you need to print millions of double floats? 08:50:50 hefner: ah, yes you're right. it's much more than 3x... 08:51:16 cl-h4ns [n=cl-h4ns@p57BBA5D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:51:19 I cursed it. =/ 08:51:31 hefner: I was comparing apples to oranges. 08:51:40 brill: Someone asked.. 08:51:58 huangjs: write them to a binary file, and hack up a quicky C program to read it in and print them =p 08:52:34 X-Scale2 [i=email@89.180.144.108] has joined #lisp 08:52:34 Heh. Yeah it's like that. 08:52:35 -!- cl-h4ns [n=cl-h4ns@p57BBA5D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:54:29 hmm, I'm not sure how to do that. I thought using single-float or double-float as a stream element type would just work, but apparently not. 08:54:40 swore I've used that before.. 08:57:35 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a63f51@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f51916d484475f6f] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:57:35 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:57:35 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:57:35 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:57:35 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:57:35 -!- cupe_ [n=cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:57:35 -!- dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:57:35 -!- turbo24prg [n=turbo24p@mail.turbolent.com] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 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http://paste.lisp.org/display/74074#1 09:04:14 hey, what was the function to make a pathname from a list? 09:04:34 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:04:50 from list of what? 09:05:36 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:05:57 strings, like, '("foo" "bar") 09:06:07 and make it into foo/bar 09:06:09 HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 09:07:10 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:07:23 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 09:07:23 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Client Quit] 09:07:47 -!- pierre__thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-60-82-254-202-29.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:07:47 weirdo: (apply concatenate 'string list)? 09:07:49 (reduce (lambda (x y) (merge-pathnames y x)) '("foo/" "bar/" "goo/")) => #P"foo/bar/goo/" 09:07:55 weirdo: er... no 09:08:01 pierre__thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:16 uh i dimly recall some lists like '(:absolute ...) 09:08:33 huangjs: Do you really want to take the symbol-value at macroexpansion-time? 09:08:46 -!- HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:09:01 HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 09:09:09 tcr: hmm... I think that's what he wanted. 09:09:11 weirdo: you mean (make-pathname :directory '(:relative "foo" "bar" "foo")) ? 09:09:11 weirdo: Did you check CLHS page of MAKE-PATHNAME ? 09:09:23 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89-180-144-108.net.novis.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:09:41 tcr: he program didn't assume that a, b and c are global vars 09:10:14 -!- HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:10:21 stassats, yeah, thanks. 09:10:48 maybe there's an easy solution to getting a truename fo an asdf component? 09:11:41 (truename (asdf:system-definition-pathname :cl-ppcre)) => #P"/home/stas/lisp/site/cl-ppcre/cl-ppcre.asd" 09:14:11 haungjs: Thanks. 09:14:24 weirdo pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74075 09:15:52 i finally won't have to open files manually 09:17:08 maybe (mapcar #'asdf:component-pathname (asdf:module-components (asdf:find-system :cl-ppcre))) ? 09:17:23 e271: what are you actually trying to do? 09:17:26 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:18:23 vy annotated #74074 with "setf-alist" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74074#2 09:19:06 tcr: given an alist of variables, set them via setf/setq 09:19:33 What do you want to use it for? 09:19:51 e271, don't EVAL at macroexpansion time 09:20:29 The alist contains bindings for *STANDARD-OUTPUT*, *STANDARD-INPUT*, etc. that will be set in a WITH-xx type macro. 09:21:04 but they're set at macroexpansion time, not runtime 09:21:10 e271: Instead of setting it, bind it. Look at SWANK::WITH-BINDINGS (which is just a very simple wrapper on top of PROGV) 09:21:10 why alist? 09:21:21 weirdo: I know it was bad form, but I couldn't get it to work otherwise. Which is when I came here for a little schoolin' 09:21:46 e271: You're using Slime? 09:22:01 stassats: becuase that's what the code currently has (this comes from swank.lisp in SLIME). 09:22:54 e271: I am debugging why the WITH-CONNECTION macro stopped working with ABCL around 2008-12-30. 09:24:10 s/e271/tcr/ 09:24:44 e271: because of the change of simple-serve-requests, likely. 09:24:54 Yeah, something in there. 09:26:13 When I update SLIME sources, how can I recompile whole SLIME module in emacs without restarting current emacs session? 09:26:15 But that should have affected all Lisp that use the NIL communication style equally. But ECL isn't affected while ABCL is. 09:26:41 vy: M-x load-library RET slime RET 09:26:58 stassats: Thanks! 09:27:44 but i think this will not reload contribs 09:28:04 Hrm... Let me restart it then. 09:28:14 tcr: binding would be better, but I needed something that would fix SLIME/ABCL back to sane defaults. 09:28:23 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:28:23 Hence the setf. 09:28:48 (or setq) 09:29:01 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 09:30:02 e271: notice that simple-serve-requests was changed on 2009-01-03 again. 09:30:26 What's wrong with the recent SLIME version? AFAIR, C-c C-m and C-c M-m was bound to macro expansion stuff, but they are all gone now. Is it same for you as well? 09:30:40 To move the WITH-CONNECTIOn furher up the caller chain, right? 09:31:15 vy: The binding is missing in slime-repl-mode. That's a bug. 09:31:49 what stops it from being fixed? 09:31:49 tcr: You, or me the one that will report it? 09:31:49 e271: Yes, have you checked out 2009-01-01, and this doesn't work? 09:32:03 tcr: I can try that. 09:32:19 None has sent a patch. 09:32:23 But I can just do it 09:33:34 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:34:59 weirdo pasted "slime-edit-system" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74076 09:35:53 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:36:54 tcr: 2009-01-01 does not appear to work any better. 09:39:01 e271: Ok 2009-12-30 should work, though 09:40:42 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:41:07 weirdo: doesn't my code snippet work? 09:41:38 stassats, which one? :o 09:41:51 (mapcar #'asdf:component-pathname (asdf:module-components (asdf:find-system :cl-ppcre))) 09:41:58 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 09:42:59 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:43:22 weirdo [n=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:43:30 emacs crashed 09:45:06 stassats pasted "reload-slime" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74077 09:45:15 oops 09:45:30 thanks 09:46:24 stassats annotated #74077 with "actually reload-slime" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74077#1 09:48:00 tcr: yes 2008-12-30 is the last version of SLIME that doesn't redirect *STANDARD-OUTPUT* to the *inferior-lisp* buffer. 09:48:10 (in ABCL). 09:49:09 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 09:49:14 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 09:50:59 e271: I'd report that to the mailinglist that it's heller's 12-31 change that introduced this regression. 09:51:21 I thought I did, but I will re-iterate it with more specifics. 09:51:24 e271: (It doesn't mean that you shouldn't keep on trying to find the root of the cause.) 09:51:35 But perhaps it'll prompt him to fix it himself. 09:52:16 tcr: is my understanding that it should affect ECL equally as to ABCL correct (as they both use the simple-repl)? 09:52:31 tcr: this is what lead me to suspect an ABCL specific problem. 09:53:59 err, both use the SIMPLE-SERVER-REQUESTS code would be a more precise way of stating that. 09:54:26 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 09:54:41 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:54:54 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 09:56:17 it's probably an abcl specific problem 09:56:34 btw, regardless of this bug, doesn't abcl have threads? 09:57:01 tcr: it does have threads. They just aren't used very much. 09:57:17 tcr: as we are still grappling with more basic ANSI issues. 09:58:01 tcr: so the question is why don't we use them in SLIME? We should. I have to figure out why the RECIEVE-IF implemntation stopped working. 09:58:03 e271: It may make sense to implement the thread-related functions in swank-backend.lisp for abcl's backend, and then change the communication-style to :spawn. 09:58:15 nagi [n=nagi@fw0-hwi.brain51.de] has joined #lisp 09:58:25 tcr: maybe that would indeed be better. 09:58:58 the cause of the bug should still be investigated and fixed 09:59:27 tcr: agreed. As it is probably a problem with specials somewhere in ABCL from what I gather. 10:00:30 tcr: thanks for the suggestions. I gotta change physical locations for a bit. 10:00:40 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:00:52 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 10:00:54 And thanks to the others who helped advanced my understanding of macrology. 10:02:25 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:03:16 punya [n=Punya@c-67-160-47-223.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:48 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:06:58 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:07:02 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 10:07:06 -!- punya [n=Punya@c-67-160-47-223.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 10:07:17 -!- hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:07:43 Ok, C-c C-m should work at the REPL again in HEAD. Probably takes 15minutes until the changes propagate to anonymous checkout. 10:12:39 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:12:51 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 10:16:34 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-77.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:17:22 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 10:18:33 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:18:45 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 10:18:47 -!- bartiosze [i=bartiosz@nintendos.pl] has left #lisp 10:20:06 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:20:12 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Client Quit] 10:28:33 _6502_ [n=agri@94.36.245.185] has joined #lisp 10:36:52 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:39:11 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:23 <_6502_> hello, what is the fastest way to check if a string contains every one of a list of strings ? 10:43:49 <_6502_> i wrote the same search program in both python and lisp and the lisp version is 10x slower and this doesn't make sense to me 10:44:06 <_6502_> but i'm quite noew to lisp so may be i did something quite stupid 10:44:20 <_6502_> s/noew/new/ 10:44:40 (every (lambda (s) (string-match (regexp-quote s) target-string)) list-of-strings) 10:44:43 maybe something like that 10:44:46 you might use paste.lisp.org then, and ask for general comments. 10:45:25 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 10:46:33 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 10:46:43 _6502_ pasted "string search speed" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74081 10:47:19 That's pretty bad 10:47:28 -!- krimpet [n=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has quit ["My hosiery is bunching..."] 10:47:49 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:47:51 <_6502_> thanks... and why ? 10:47:53 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:49:01 <_6502_> searching about 10000 items speed is 30ms with python and 300ms with SBCL (200ms with CLISP (!)) 10:49:04 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:49:54 <_3b> ouch, eval? 10:50:20 oops, i wrote my little function in elisp :) wrong channel 10:50:27 tcr annotated #74081 with "search-strings" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74081#1 10:51:01 <_6502_> that's bad ? in a previous version i used to build a lambda (still created with an eval) instead of wrapping the whole loop, with identical results 10:51:18 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:55:02 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:55:41 hypno [n=hypno@195.43.248.100] has joined #lisp 10:57:46 <_6502_> in search-items i create code containing (when (and (search "substring1" L) (search "substring2" L) ... (search "substringN" L)) ...) 10:58:16 <_3b> eval is usually considered a sign you are doing something wrong in CL 10:58:39 <_3b> you'd probably be better off compiling the code (though sbcl might compile it anyway, don't remember) 10:59:20 <_3b> do you want to compare speed with python, or write a fast lisp program? 10:59:21 <_6502_> ok, i'll try the "plain" version instead of building an explicit test 11:01:17 hello lispers 11:01:25 <_3b> if you aren't searching for things with spaces in them, why combine the 2 strings? 11:02:41 <_6502_> it was just an example... i want to search all the records that contain certain substring in any of the fields 11:03:08 <_3b> right, but not things that match part of one field, and part of the next, right? 11:03:28 <_3b> in that case, combining them into 1 string wastes time allocating space and copying them for no reason 11:04:00 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:08 <_6502_> but i do search just one string for every substring 11:04:46 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 11:06:13 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 11:06:33 <_3b> i mean you concatenate partno and item-description, and search within that, instead of searching them separately 11:07:43 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 11:08:32 <_3b> so you do extra work combining them, and assuming SEARCH is halfway intelligent, you do extra work searching too 11:09:11 <_3b> even worse if SEARCH is more than halfway intelligent, then the copy might be more work than the search itself 11:13:38 <_6502_> true 11:14:34 <_6502_> the "dead-simple" version that doesn't try to be smart by creating a fixed test is 6 times faster than python 11:15:42 _6502_ annotated #74081 with "simple version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74081#2 11:16:56 <_3b> now try passing the endpoints of the substring to search instead of using subseq 11:20:35 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 11:21:44 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:20 <_6502_> speed remains the same, and before i forgot a 10x, the current version is not 6x faster than python but somewhat slower 11:25:37 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:25:40 <_6502_> 52ms against 30ms of python 11:25:46 <_3b> on sbcl still? 11:26:00 <_6502_> yes, 70ms on clisp 11:26:38 what about declaring speed optimization? 11:26:47 <_3b> that was my next suggestion 11:27:18 and fixing sbcl's hints 11:29:22 but i think i/o will be the bottleneck anyway 11:29:39 <_3b> maybe (the string (item-partno a)) and same for item-description 11:29:43 <_3b> or simple-string if that applies 11:29:43 ZabaQ [n=jconnors@194-105-174-193.ifb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:33:33 <_6502_> (the-string (item-partno a)) made the difference, now is 11ms 11:35:01 <_6502_> ok, nice lesson 11:35:29 <_6502_> but what was the problem ? that eval-uated code doesn't get compiled on SBCL ? 11:36:57 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 11:37:36 <_3b> not sure how much of the problem was the eval, but i doubt it was helping 11:37:38 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@220-136-225-141.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 11:37:47 _6502_ annotated #74081 with "even faster" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74081#3 11:37:52 <_3b> you took out the print, that could be part of it 11:38:17 _6502_: what do you use for "filter"? ie, a test-run? 11:39:10 <_6502_> i'm searching a 10000-items file, filter is "MOT FUST" and only 10 items match both 11:39:18 a 11:40:11 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:40:22 <_3b> (declare (optimize speed) (simple-string filter)) ? 11:40:30 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 11:41:24 <_3b> assuming you haven't proclaimed or declaimed a speed potimization elsewhere 11:42:46 <_6502_> 11ms was with (optimize (speed 3)(safety 0)) 11:42:59 <_6502_> it's 40ms without optimization 11:43:07 <_3b> ok 11:45:33 can you use delete-if-not instead of remove-if-not? 11:46:21 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 11:47:41 <_6502_> but then i've not make a copy at the beginning, right ? 11:47:56 <_6502_> i've *to* make a copy 11:48:40 if you want what is in *items* to be intact 11:50:37 and *items* is a list, right? is it making difference if it will be a list? 11:51:26 <_6502_> *items* is a list 11:52:54 what if instead of (setq filter (subseq filter (1+ s))) you will do (position ... :start s) and change (search ...) accordingly? 11:53:24 eevar2 [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:32 <_6502_> i'll keep experimenting this afternoon, lunch time for me now 11:54:47 <_6502_> thanks all for the guidance 11:55:12 -!- _6502_ [n=agri@94.36.245.185] has left #lisp 12:01:50 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 12:04:50 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:12:41 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 12:13:23 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a63f51@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f51916d484475f6f] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 12:18:47 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:19:52 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@231.pool85-49-184.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 12:24:45 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:25:27 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-1-162.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 12:28:31 opusp [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-19675fa1407219d9] has joined #lisp 12:29:02 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BD14.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:55 kt? 12:31:19 Iv'e been trying to get my hands on this paper: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/113444752/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 12:31:42 Does anyone have a cached copy? 12:36:05 szergling [n=tyc20@125-236-135-147.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 12:36:25 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:41:45 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:43:57 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:44:14 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F31D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:05 Partyzant [n=Partyzan@rps312.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:36 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:47:41 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:48:45 -!- szergling [n=tyc20@125-236-135-147.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has left #lisp 12:49:47 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@231.pool85-49-184.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:50:05 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@139.pool85-49-173.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 12:50:19 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 12:50:25 LostMonarch [n=roby@host234-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:51:17 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:52:43 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:55:59 chris2 [n=chris@ppp-93-104-119-177.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 12:58:43 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:59:15 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 13:00:52 zorgzorg2 [i=marra@130.236.136.254] has joined #lisp 13:01:51 -!- dex [n=dex@201-167-88-106-cable.cybercable.net.mx] has quit ["leaving"] 13:02:09 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 13:02:16 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:02:26 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:02:36 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:00 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:03:16 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.69.218] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:03:17 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 13:03:33 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:03:59 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 13:04:50 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:04:55 Ragnaroek [i=8f5d3597@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4f4d7be448ac28a2] has joined #lisp 13:05:11 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:05:12 [Question about Elephant] Does anyone know a smart way to get instances like this in SQL? SELECT * FROM table WHERE column1 = "" ORDER BY column2 LIMIT 10, 10; If I use map-inverted-index, it's gonna be a big hack, I think. 13:05:54 s/column1 = ""/column1 = "something"/ 13:09:38 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:09:40 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 13:10:02 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:14:33 -!- opusp [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-19675fa1407219d9] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:20:44 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:21:25 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:21:50 opusp [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-8613e845306de5ee] has joined #lisp 13:22:24 -!- cupe_ [n=cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:23:48 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:27:27 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 13:27:54 c|mell [n=cmell@p1087-ipbf1810marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:30:33 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:40 G'morning all. 13:32:39 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:32:57 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 13:34:10 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:34:38 -!- ZabaQ [n=jconnors@194-105-174-193.ifb.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:35:17 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:37:06 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:02 nyef: good morning! 13:39:05 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:25 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has left #lisp 13:44:04 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:30 -!- brill [n=brill@0x57386060.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:50:42 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:50 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:29 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:53:34 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 13:53:52 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:22 loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:35 -!- mvr [n=mitchell@d122-105-155-182.rdl13.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 13:57:55 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:58:15 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:04 -!- Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:05:11 Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 14:11:09 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 14:13:20 reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 14:14:25 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:16:29 yain_ [n=yain@77.35.238.179] has joined #lisp 14:16:58 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [""That's our secret... we kill you with kindness. What's your secret?""] 14:19:13 -!- housel [n=housel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19:15 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19:55 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA37A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:36 schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-061-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:52 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:25:54 -!- yain [n=yain@77.35.238.179] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:26:04 opt9 [n=user@59.7.205.138] has joined #lisp 14:29:24 chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has joined #lisp 14:30:44 -!- schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-061-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:31:29 tomsw [n=user@d54C1C1A4.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:33:37 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:22 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-119-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:39 *luis* looks at maybe_adjust_large_object() in gencgc.c:2518 14:36:54 it mentions shrinkage of bignums and simple arrays 14:37:05 What sort of shrinkage is this? 14:37:30 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 14:37:37 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:28 -!- cky [n=cky@203-211-110-70.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:39:10 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:40:27 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc22.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 14:41:40 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:11 yango_ [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 14:42:27 -!- meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:42:37 vector-adjust? 14:42:41 meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 14:43:17 erm, adjust-array 14:45:39 Hmm, yeah, %shrink-vector seems to do that. 14:45:51 user___ [n=user@p54927B53.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:56 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 14:46:05 *luis* needs to get his own private echo chamber :) 14:46:06 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:46:12 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 14:46:50 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:47:18 I know that is simple to implement but does already exist something like (multi-catch '(tagname1 tagname3 tagname3) *form) ? 14:47:55 s/'(tagname1 tagname3 tagname3)/'(t1 t2 t3)/ 14:48:07 no 14:48:27 thanks 14:50:10 Xof: hello! came across your Sanely-Bootstrapable Common Lisp paper the other day. That was a pretty useful overview of build process for me. 14:50:24 *bootstrappable 14:50:47 really? Cool 14:50:50 thank you 14:51:26 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:51:28 I hope you enjoyed the diagrams 14:51:39 Xof: mind if I use the diagrams in a report I have to turn in next week? 14:51:42 :-) 14:51:49 heh. Not at all. MORE CITATIONS 14:53:43 spec_afk [n=noOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 14:54:01 -!- spec_afk is now known as mrSpec 14:54:09 Hi 14:54:34 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:55:35 -!- opusp [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-8613e845306de5ee] has left #lisp 14:55:37 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 14:56:01 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:27 Took me a while to notice that the funny title. 14:57:27 s/that// 14:57:47 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:58:13 -!- moocow [n=new@76.77.79.226] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:58:26 it's funny. I have a vague recollection that something like that was the original backronym, but I can't find any evidence for it in my e-mails 15:00:38 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-150.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:00:42 moocow [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has joined #lisp 15:01:24 -!- moocow [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:01:57 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 15:02:39 jmignault [n=jmignaul@vpn.nybg.org] has joined #lisp 15:02:40 Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 15:02:50 -!- jmignault [n=jmignaul@vpn.nybg.org] has quit [Client Quit] 15:03:05 jmignault [n=jmignaul@vpn.nybg.org] has joined #lisp 15:03:52 ferada [n=ferada@e179238057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:03:52 *luis* goes back to digging through src/runtime/*.c with M-. and M-* 15:04:02 thank god for etags 15:04:08 moocow [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has joined #lisp 15:04:56 what're you doing? 15:05:45 I'm trying to (a) figure out how the gc/allocation works and (b) document it for a report. 15:05:58 awesome 15:07:25 I presume you have found http://sbcl-internals.cliki.net/GENCGC 15:08:01 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:09:11 yes. I was going to say that it didn't help much, but that's probably because I had already read it before. 15:09:45 -!- loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:11:09 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11:34 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11:49 is this report for your studies? (I'm sure the list would be interested to read your document when you finish it 15:11:49 schmx [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:13:34 yvdriess_ [n=yvdriess@progpc26.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:13:57 yes, well, let's see how it goes. 15:17:28 trittweil [n=trittwei@macbroy20.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 15:21:38 willb [n=wibenton@wireless93.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:22:28 I have to move #P"/tmp/foo/" to #P"/tmp/bar/" bat bfore I need to check if #P"/tmp/bar/foo/" exists. What should I use to build #P"/tmp/bar/foo/" given those pathnames ? 15:22:50 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:24:19 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:24:29 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:24:33 <_death> pathname-directory on the first gives you a list (:absolute "tmp" "foo") and on the second (:absolute "tmp" "bar") .. you want to create a pathname with (:absolute "tmp" "bar" "foo") 15:25:29 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc22.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:13 -!- yvdriess_ is now known as yvdriess 15:26:32 <_death> I suppose `ldiff' might be of use here, in the more general case 15:26:37 alternatively, enough-namestring 15:27:00 <_death> or not, because it uses eql 15:27:24 Xof, ok got it, thanks 15:27:29 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:30:46 Xof, is it good this way (make-pathname :directory (append (pathname-directory #P"/tmp/bar/") (last (pathname-directory #P"/tmp/foo/")))) ? 15:32:06 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 15:32:55 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5d75.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 15:33:20 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:34:21 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:34:28 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:53 Is there a way to make temporary file (in /tmp or equivalent) on all platforms (Is there a function in the hyperspec?) 15:45:08 Yes (No). 15:46:32 Let me guess: There is no temporary file concept when Lisp was invented. 15:47:04 what's the difference between temporary and ordinary file? 15:47:12 <_death> people didn't live under the illusion that there was such thing as a permanent file ;) 15:48:19 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:42 -!- jmignault [n=jmignaul@vpn.nybg.org] has quit ["I really must go"] 15:52:04 beach: Are you around ? 15:52:07 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 15:53:03 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:53:52 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:54:59 __death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 15:57:16 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:58:04 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:58:08 The-Kenny: osicat:with-temporary-file is one way 15:58:11 hello. 16:00:06 is there a way to use filename in (with-open-file (*STANDARD-OUTPUT* filename :direction :output :if-exists :append :if-does-not-exist :create) to use the standard-output (terminal)? i would like to use the same code for file creation or terminal-output (debug-mode)... 16:00:08 The-Kenny: sb-unix:sb-mkstemp is another 16:00:35 trebor_dki: "/dev/stdout" maybe 16:01:06 Umm... do you want the standard output, or the terminal? 16:01:30 Xof: thank you (i'll try that). 16:01:36 luis: Does it also work on non-POSIX platforms? 16:01:42 nyef: if possible: standard-output 16:01:44 roconnor [n=roconnor@206-248-135-96.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:44 -!- zorgzorg2 [i=marra@130.236.136.254] has left #lisp 16:02:06 Fair enough. If you wanted the terminal, /dev/tty might have helped. 16:02:21 vy: like, lisp machines? (No.) 16:04:21 luis: maybe with the help of your document someone will port sbcl to run on Genera 16:04:40 then they'll have to implement sb-unix:sb-mkstemp, just for vy 16:06:46 vy: it won't work on some (lame) POSIX platforms either. 16:07:43 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-10-168.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:23 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:09:47 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:17 -!- ksergio [n=sgarcia@mail.nuecho.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:10:21 by lame, I mean windows. :-) 16:10:31 vy: how would you implement it on windows? 16:11:00 luis: I wouldn't. 16:11:09 ksergio [n=sgarcia@mail.nuecho.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:32 Every path in windows is temporary, except CD/DVD drivers. 16:11:48 luis: I'm pretty sure Windows provides something; I think nyef recently mentioned it. 16:12:25 ... I did? 16:12:37 nyef: who else would talk about windows? :) 16:13:07 Someone who actually uses it for programming, instead of as an intellectual excersize? 16:14:05 -!- user___ [n=user@p54927B53.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:14:13 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:44 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@139.pool85-49-173.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:14:58 -!- Ragnaroek [i=8f5d3597@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4f4d7be448ac28a2] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 16:15:34 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p1087-ipbf1810marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:49 c|mell [n=cmell@p1087-ipbf1810marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:16:19 cp1134_ [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has joined #lisp 16:16:22 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:50 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:17:47 -!- cp1134 [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:17:54 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:21:51 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F31D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:24:40 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:24:42 -!- trittweil [n=trittwei@macbroy20.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ["leaving"] 16:24:48 -!- moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:25:00 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:16 -!- cmo-0 [n=user@92.99.26.154] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:25:57 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:27:16 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit ["Stopping IRC chat... 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[n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:34:07 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:34:50 josemanuel [n=josemanu@148.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:34:57 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:00 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:38:59 -!- g0ju [n=moo@dslb-088-074-247-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 17:39:43 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66651@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ed47fe7f2cb96f6c] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:40:13 -!- meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:40:29 meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 17:44:24 -!- loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:47:02 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:48:43 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:53:53 [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.135] has joined #lisp 17:54:58 housel [n=housel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 17:59:18 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:59:35 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:00:47 demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d8716a2.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 18:00:58 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 18:01:25 clhs mapcar 18:01:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 18:01:49 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:02:16 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:03:42 is the list returned by mapcar i freshly consed one. i.e. can i safely pass it to a destructive function? 18:03:56 yes 18:04:05 the hs doesn't seem to say that explicitly 18:04:14 it is always freshly consed 18:04:47 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:05:09 ok thanks 18:08:23 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:13:24 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:14:17 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:40 -!- heow [n=user@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has left #lisp 18:16:22 demmel: hmm, where would mapcar get the conses from? 18:16:35 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p1087-ipbf1810marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:16:39 the non-fresh conses, I mean 18:16:53 luis: It recycles old ones, of course. :-P 18:17:13 indeed, the GC does :) 18:17:15 c|mell [n=cmell@122.16.144.87] has joined #lisp 18:18:14 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:32 luis: i dont know. thats why i'm asking. I would have guessed the answer, but just had a really annoying bug with destructive mapcan an hour ago.. 18:18:39 ;) 18:20:35 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:47 can you show code for that? this form of bug never happened to me and i'd like to see how it works 18:21:24 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:36 Hun: MAPCAN uses NCONC. 18:21:44 As does MAPCON. 18:21:44 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:21:48 i know 18:22:00 Hun: hang on 18:22:11 that one only happens when the function that mapcar uses returns shared conses, right? 18:22:11 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:22:24 Right. 18:22:36 phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 18:22:40 ok, understood 18:23:05 Hun: the don't need to be shared at the point of return 18:23:21 Hun: but i guess you meant that 18:23:47 not-new conses 18:23:55 that's what i meant 18:24:10 Recycled conses? 18:24:21 Hun: it was something like (mapcan (lambda (x) (accessor x)) object-list) 18:24:25 Hun: yes 18:24:27 yep 18:24:31 Yeah, an accessor would do the trick. 18:24:32 that's what i meant 18:25:04 (mapcan (lambda (x) (copy-list (accessor x))) object-list) <-- this then works 18:25:26 -!- nagi [n=nagi@fw0-hwi.brain51.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:25:27 Or just using mapcar would have, too. 18:25:45 why not mapcar?... 18:26:25 All the cool kids use MAPCAN and COPY-LIST! 18:27:01 if you don't stop, i'll apply copy-tree to all your lawn 18:27:01 And I presume that there's something more clever going on with the lambda than just (lambda (x) (accessor x)), otherwise you may as well just use #'accessor. 18:27:01 nyef: and then? (apply #'append (mapcar (lambda ...) ...) 18:27:06 Hun: ^^ 18:27:12 mapappend 18:27:20 which pg calles mappend 18:27:33 Oh, whichever. 18:27:37 clhs mappend 18:27:37 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for mappend. 18:27:46 demmel: it's in on lisp 18:27:53 and in AMOP 18:27:58 PG might call it mappend, but the cool kids call it alexandria:mappend 18:27:59 Hun: ah right 18:28:05 (defun mapappend (fn seq) (apply #'append (mapcar fn seq))) 18:28:20 which is kinda O(n square) 18:28:35 + &rest 18:29:32 Hun: sykopomp's is, alexandria:mappend isn't 18:29:53 true 18:29:53 nyef: "otherwise you may as well just use #'accessor." you do have a point. head -> table 18:29:55 I really need to start using alexandria regularly. :) 18:30:00 nurv101 [n=askmefor@cidhcp132.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 18:30:11 demmel: there's always time for facepalm 18:31:24 ^^ 18:31:33 anyway got to go. thanks guys 18:35:10 -!- tomsw [n=user@d54C1C1A4.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35:36 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ca0c9c19db6bf7c9] has joined #lisp 18:35:43 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-10-129.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:48 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host234-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 18:46:59 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:20 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:51:58 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 18:52:13 PrimeMinisterFag [n=u5h@syru217-140.syr.edu] has joined #lisp 18:52:27 question: how does lisp handle impurity 18:52:38 or the necessity for impurity such as IO 18:53:04 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Disconnecting from stoned server."] 18:53:18 bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:28 PrimeMinisterFag: since lisp is not purely functional, it doesn't come up 18:53:28 PrimeMinisterFag: do you not have anything better to do? 18:53:53 dlowe: ah 18:54:14 sykopomp: don't you? 18:55:53 is that you again, gawino? 18:56:08 who showed him the way to irc, btw? 18:56:28 i feel that i've been the victim of discrimination in some respect 18:57:52 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:58:53 is it cos i is black? 19:03:23 vsync: hahahaha! 19:03:36 ericklc [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 19:04:06 PrimeMinisterFag: We don't quite have the concept of impurity. 19:04:33 schmx: We don't? What about sb-ext:purify, then? :-P 19:05:39 Damn you and your superior knowledge! 19:06:06 I love that though, I find it interesting to M-. all those oddities. 19:06:17 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:08:14 ejs1 [n=eugen@94.248.85.141] has joined #lisp 19:09:22 Oh! I was pointed to something mentioning that lispworks actually let one define callbacks in lisp space and have that called by random processes from out of nowhere, and that actually worked. Is there someone who can confirm this? 19:10:30 Still on about the jackd thing? 19:10:53 ..are there bindings between jackd and lisp? 19:11:03 or does jackd bind itself 19:11:49 nyef: Of course :) 19:12:19 PrimeMinisterFag: To be a picky pain in the arse I'll tell you that no language whatsoever has jackd bindings. 19:12:30 nah, that was precisely the answer i wanted ;) 19:12:36 What you might consider doing, if you're willing to do dirty internals things, is building a new callback stub that will check for a lisp thread context and, if there isn't one, construct enough of one to get by. 19:12:46 phytovor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-13-226.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:13 Making sure to either destroy the context or release it to a pool when the callback returns. 19:13:28 nyef: did you conquer that decoding problem you were fighting yesterday? 19:13:31 You might still lose wrt. signals and GC, but... 19:13:34 nyef: That sounds interesting. I'll make a note of that. 19:13:39 Ah yes. 19:13:40 That. 19:13:47 I remember now. 19:13:50 n/m :) 19:13:55 Fade: Yeah. http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/shot1.png 19:14:06 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:14:10 nice :) 19:14:11 I guess I'll do it like scheme and haskell does it.. by outsourcing stuff to C :S 19:14:25 move along, nothing to see here. 19:14:43 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:14:52 Fade: And annotation 5 of paste 74030. 19:15:19 minion: Paste 74030? 19:15:19 Paste number 74030: "A large block, with header" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/74030 19:15:30 Phaze [n=PhazeDK@93.163.43.22] has joined #lisp 19:15:49 ahh... interesting. thanks 19:17:14 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@94.248.85.141] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:18:03 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:18:58 One downside I've found is that if you screw up your slime-eval too badly you can lose your slime connection and have to restart the swank server. 19:21:07 The upside, of course, is being able to see the actual bitmapped images in an editor buffer. 19:21:15 :) 19:21:36 vy [n=user@88.227.111.137] has joined #lisp 19:21:57 it's an interesting project, but I was wondering why you were decoding such an obscure filetype 19:22:04 For fun? 19:22:13 it isn't all That obscure 19:22:21 that's as good an answer as there is. :) 19:22:36 lzss compressors of that sort are to be expected considering the origin 19:22:42 i think lharc used similar for a while 19:23:03 but yeah.... awesome fun :p 19:24:46 I'll admit, actually being able to -look- at the decompressed output was a great help. 19:25:24 yep 19:25:48 -!- demmel [n=demmel@mnch-5d8716a2.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 19:28:44 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [No route to host] 19:30:16 -!- vy [n=user@88.227.111.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:31:04 ajgaojga [i=adgag@gateway/tor/x-1de1966a68203fee] has joined #lisp 19:32:44 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:33:13 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 19:33:26 -!- ajgaojga [i=adgag@gateway/tor/x-1de1966a68203fee] has left #lisp 19:35:37 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:04 ejs1 [n=eugen@94-248-85-141.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 19:39:15 hmm, is this fpu control world restoring stuff in sbcl sane? 19:39:33 Sane how? 19:39:44 shouldn't the signal handler set it always to the same value? 19:40:03 As opposed to...? 19:40:21 cavelife [n=cavelife@211.201.172.41] has joined #lisp 19:41:02 -!- cavelife^ [n=cavelife@211.201.172.41] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:41:10 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:41:16 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:41:16 as oppose to copying it from the interrupted context 19:41:18 +d 19:41:29 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-22-157.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:54 I'll argue that because the user is permitted to change the floating-point mode, it's at least not entirely insane. 19:42:04 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:30 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@cidhcp132.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:44:18 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.226.125] has quit ["User: a technical term used by computer professionals. See "idiot"."] 19:46:17 oh, I see call_into_lisp sets the relevant parts 19:46:43 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:47:48 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:48:31 now the trick question is, how is it possible for sigsegv to have context->uc_mcontext.fpregs == NULL? 19:48:41 Does clbuild inhibit loading of .swank.lisp? 19:48:56 and where is this mcontext thing documented anyway ... 19:49:07 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:50:06 ... my (setq swank:*globally-redirect-io* t) in .swank.lisp does not seem to be working. 19:50:50 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@148.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 19:52:49 damn, it may be because it's on altstack 19:53:46 Is there anything else that needs to be done to get a remote swank to write output to the SLIME repl? 19:53:48 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:55:12 ahaas: This is in .swank.lisp on the remote machine, right? 19:55:39 both, but yeah, I wasn't sure where it belongs. 19:58:41 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:50 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [No route to host] 19:58:56 Ok, I have it set now (by setting it in my script that starts swank), but I don't think that variable solves the problem I have. 19:59:51 I have swank running remotely and I connect to it via ssh and emacs/slime, but any output sent to *standard-output* only appears in my screen session on the remote server and not in emacs. 20:05:59 So I'm thinking here that I need to manage my music collection with sbcl. For this I need to make a database of the audio tracks I have here on my harddrive.. database with the tags from the files + arbitrary tags I make up + comments. I was thinking abusing sqlite for this, but maybe it is better to use some "in lisp" structure for it. Watcha guys think? 20:06:08 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.135] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:06:08 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 20:06:33 I'm curious about how fast using lists and such would be. 20:07:05 (for searching and what not) 20:07:24 You could use trees and stuff too 20:07:45 An actual use case would perhaps be to find me all recordings by some specific composer. 20:07:53 Yes.. But I would need several trees then, no? 20:08:00 I think I have partial specs and a partial driver in lisp for watcom sql / adaptive server anywhere database files, and it'd be cool to see someone make it not suck. 20:08:03 I mean one for artist, one for album, etc.. etc. 20:08:27 Fair point, i'm sure there's a way to make them all point to the same data though 20:08:30 archangelpetro [n=archange@cpc2-oxfd4-0-0-cust85.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:34 What I have now is just dumping it into sql, but it got complicated with the arbitrary notes. 20:08:47 tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has joined #lisp 20:08:51 djarvelis: Ya, of course :) the car could be the same all along :) 20:09:29 I'm more curious about speed. Say I want all tracks by composer foo, and then go through 750k items or so for matching. Maybe it is just bad to go with not the sql :S 20:09:33 nyef: ODBC no use? 20:09:42 especially if the database grows big. hrrrm. 20:10:14 I'll meditate on trees. 20:10:17 rsynnott: At the time, I wasn't aware of a suitable linux implementation for these files. 20:10:26 schmx: you could compromise and use the bnkr datastore or elephant or something 20:10:35 I now know that there is one, but have forgotten what it is. 20:10:51 [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.13] has joined #lisp 20:10:56 Besides, it was a fun reverse-engineering project. 20:11:00 rsynnott: Isn't that just for serialising objects and such though? 20:11:07 *rsynnott* really dislikes unixodbc, but it sounds like a reasonable solution here 20:11:16 schmx: both provide object persistency with indexes 20:11:22 rsynnott: Then I still need to come up with some suitable datastructure :) 20:11:29 indexes are what you want for searching 20:11:34 Ya.. cool. 20:11:46 As long as I can index all "slots", then all is well :) 20:12:16 I'll look into that though. It seems a good idea. 20:13:12 rsynnott: That looks very good :) 20:13:13 :D 20:13:47 elephant is pretty neat. 20:15:39 This looks perfect actually. 20:15:54 cavelife^ [n=cavelife@211.201.172.41] has joined #lisp 20:15:57 -!- cavelife [n=cavelife@211.201.172.41] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:29 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:16:53 though of course if you want to distribute the thing, elephant may pose problems 20:18:13 jlebrech [n=joseph@5ad68966.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:34 is there a database of lisp script i could use? 20:18:43 im new to lisp but i need it for something :) 20:19:00 jlebrech: lisp script? 20:19:11 within emacs 20:19:12 as in a collection of snippets which do random things? 20:19:25 jlebrech: emacs lisp? or common lisp? 20:19:29 yeh a snippet to do a certain thing yes 20:19:35 jlebrech: if emacs lisp -> ask in #emacs 20:19:38 the common lisp cookbook. 20:20:03 http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/ 20:20:11 If you want #emacs, you know where to find it... and the obvious places to look beyond that are in the installed source files for your emacs and the emacs wiki. 20:20:22 i have sqls string which i want to highlight and hit a script that will convert it to parameterised sql 20:20:42 i come from #emacs they were helpful too 20:21:19 jlebrech: I think you're searching for emacs stuff. This is about common lisp, which is not the lisp used in emacs. Either that, or I'm totally misguessing your question 20:21:43 i will ask the emacs guys thanks 20:22:03 yw 20:23:16 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 20:23:56 maybe you could have a clue tho :) maybe common-lisp could do it 20:24:41 jlebrech: you could do it in common-lisp, but then it wouldn't be integrated so nicely in emacs, I guess :) 20:24:43 i want to replace all instances of "where x = " & x with "where x = @x" 20:25:13 jlebrech: google regexp :P 20:25:21 x is variable, :D 20:25:40 google regexp 20:26:19 sexp 20:27:30 josemanuel [n=josemanu@148.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:28:05 Cross [i=Cross@59.93.132.34] has joined #lisp 20:30:46 mulander [n=opera@nat-4.interq.pl] has joined #lisp 20:32:15 -!- j_king [n=jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:32:27 -!- mulander [n=opera@nat-4.interq.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:33:51 -!- ericklc [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:34:25 user___ [n=user@p54927B9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:25 -!- aundro [n=aundro@59.114-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:35:09 newconnect123 [n=dcl@207-144-17-103.cstel.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:10 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 20:35:42 ericklc [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 20:37:07 aundro [n=aundro@242.41-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:37:14 -!- newconnect123 is now known as spiderbyte 20:37:21 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@207-144-17-103.cstel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:38:00 spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 20:38:43 jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 20:39:33 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:45 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.13] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:40:07 -!- PrimeMinisterFag [n=u5h@syru217-140.syr.edu] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:42:08 *yawn*, compiling SBCL on the XO-1 takes forever 20:43:38 [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.93] has joined #lisp 20:45:46 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:47:54 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:49:06 -!- Cross [i=Cross@59.93.132.34] has left #lisp 20:52:14 I start it before going to bed. 20:54:35 tomsw [n=user@d54C1C1A4.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 20:54:43 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:54:55 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:33 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:17 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:59:02 mulander [n=opera@nat-4.interq.pl] has joined #lisp 20:59:03 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:59:21 -!- mulander [n=opera@nat-4.interq.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:00:03 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:42 z0d: didn't meant to give an impression that i liked YUI. scrapping it off right now; too slow and ugly, imo. 21:02:04 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.53.57] has joined #lisp 21:04:16 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:16 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4e9a.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:06:03 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:22 -!- AmiableCrocodile [n=nimaj@d199-126-167-79.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:07:49 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has quit [] 21:08:51 jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 21:09:27 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 21:11:15 ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:12:59 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:13:20 -!- jlebrech [n=joseph@5ad68966.bb.sky.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:13:47 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:14:03 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:04 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 21:15:17 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 21:16:02 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:16:27 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 21:17:13 luis, it has enough ram? 21:17:48 jewel: sure, it's got 1/4 GB! 21:18:16 and no swap 21:18:19 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-150.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 21:22:01 -!- hsaliak` [n=user@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:23:00 -!- ericklc is now known as ikki 21:25:32 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-77.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:26:49 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:28:04 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:43 It seems that if I dump a core with clbuild and include slime, then .swank.lisp will never be read. 21:31:01 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has left #lisp 21:33:13 but if I run emacs/slime, the variables I set are there, so I must be missing something. 21:33:22 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:46 the core you dump has already read the variables 21:36:00 not ? 21:36:08 Then why are they not present if I load the core outside of slime? 21:36:16 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:36:19 outside of emacs, rather 21:36:59 Is .swank.lisp read if you dump a core? I thought it was only read when you make a connection to the server. 21:39:23 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit ["going to moon brb"] 21:39:23 load swank set them yourself then dump core 21:40:08 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 21:41:01 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [No route to host] 21:41:01 rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-50-106.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:41:36 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:41:36 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:42:06 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:36 Yeah, I'm a little confused about what happens when. I'm trying to use globally-redirect-io, which must be set before the connection is made. I set it like you described and the value was set, but it didn't seem to have any effect, so I was trying to take a step back and see why it isn't being set from .swank.lisp. 21:42:58 (since that's the recommended place to set it) 21:43:12 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 21:43:24 -!- PanGoat is now known as Pan3D 21:43:40 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:39 Ragnaroek [i=54a659bd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-01a864a2f1039985] has joined #lisp 21:45:54 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:49:20 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:09 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279441006.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 21:50:42 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-105.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:50:57 hello 21:51:00 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279441006.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:51:35 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 21:52:35 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:07 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:54:00 -!- meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:54:10 meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 21:54:34 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-120-91-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:15 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:56:21 -!- Pan3D [n=PanGoat@node2.sensoryresearch.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:57:01 -!- sjbach_ is now known as sjbach 21:57:35 -!- zenbalrog [n=johnnyc@adsl-69-149-229-117.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit ["zenbalrog has no reason"] 21:58:08 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:42 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:54 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:01:59 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:02:11 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 22:03:33 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 22:05:42 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:06:54 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 22:07:07 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:08:31 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:08:32 -!- rcy [n=rcy@d154-20-176-87.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:08:55 vasa [n=vasa@mm-120-91-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 22:10:04 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:37 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:11:42 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:12:06 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:52 jsnell: are you here? 22:13:56 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@148.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:14:23 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a659bd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-01a864a2f1039985] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:14:44 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:16:42 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 22:18:25 or, well, for better or worse: when it comes to preemptive scheduled kernel threads, which is what i think sbcl has, each thread is assigned its own descriptor in the ldt. now, iirc, the ldt has an upper limit of around 8000 threads. 22:19:10 hypno: You'll run out of address space first. 22:19:44 (8192 descriptors at most, unless it was 8191.) 22:20:15 now: if i want preemptive scheduling in userland, i would hook the clock/timer interrupt, somehow from the OS-interface, and attach a signal handler which in effect will be my scheduler. 22:20:31 assume all io are nonblocking. 22:20:50 SIGALARM, FWIW. 22:21:03 And that will EINTR blocking I/O as needed. 22:21:12 -!- djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:21:19 And will never work on Win32. 22:21:36 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:21:52 but how do you manage each threads stack and heap, etc? you save it as a linked list or something else on the stack and let the scheduler switch cpu-contexts from that allocation? 22:22:03 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:26 nyef: ok, cool. 22:22:29 hmm... on my system, there is a max limit of 32621 threads... 22:23:03 p_l: huh? i think 8191 is correct as nyef said. maybe the gdt can be used as well tho? 22:23:03 For heap, you just use the same allocation scheme as normal threading. You make sure your scheduler doesn't run during p-a blocks. Beyond that, it's fairly straight-forward. 22:23:17 hypno: That's OS-reported limit 22:23:21 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:23:25 jao [n=user@13.Red-83-42-109.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:27 nyef: p-a blocks? 22:23:32 pseudo-atomic. 22:23:47 p_l: well, are they really kernel threads then and not some weird m:n thingy? 22:23:59 kernel threads only 22:24:17 if you want m:n, you have to write it yourself on top of pthreads 22:24:19 p_l: IA32? sounds weird if so. 22:24:28 hypno: amd64 22:24:41 I don't have a 32bit OS on hand... but wait 22:24:51 There is, apparently, a per-thread GDT descriptor available, but... Doesn't really help. 22:24:54 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.53.57] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:25:03 ah. ok. i am explicitly talking about x86 now. (i only now the 386 cpu somewhat deep) 22:25:17 16383 is the limit on linux x86 22:25:50 p_l: that sounds more in tune with the gdt + ldt size, so maybe not that strange. 22:26:07 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 22:26:40 nyef: anyway, same allocation scheme? for "normal threading" (as in kernel threads) you use the ldt no? 22:26:58 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 22:26:59 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:27:04 well, no one forbids you from allocating the LDT on on-demand basis (i.e. swap off threads that won't run soon?) 22:27:18 I'd use the FS segment for a TLS block, and have an open allocation region within, just as we do with threads now. 22:27:19 mvr [n=mitchell@d122-105-155-182.rdl13.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:27:32 nyef: or do you mean i effectively save ldt entries on the heap/data-segment, swap in a fresh segment descriptor according to the scheduler and jump to it? 22:27:33 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:06 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:15 Basically, you just save/load a full register context, including segment registers. 22:29:00 nyef: ok. how do you control the amount of allocation each thread can do? are you forced into writing your own *alloc()-subsystem too? 22:29:20 anyway, you still have to manage separate GDT/LDT in case of running the threads on more than one CPU 22:29:42 Why would I limit allocation on a per-thread basis? 22:30:00 Hell, cooperatively-scheduled threads don't even need separate alloc-regions. 22:30:16 yeah, but i am more interrested in simple preemptive scheduling. i dont care about multiple cpus for now. 22:30:38 <_3b> what would limiting allocation even mean, if they can share data? 22:30:38 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:30:43 Is there any particular reason -why- you want this? 22:31:23 hypno: stack vs. heap? (does each thread have/need its own address space?) 22:31:28 hypno: If you want to limit resources per-thread, I suggest you try fork&mmap combo instead of kernel threads :) 22:31:35 nyef: maybe i got the terminology wrong. when i say "preemptive scheduling", i basically mean that the threads will be running regardless if they block themselves. pretty much the opposite of cooperative threads. 22:32:09 erm... 22:32:48 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:31 hypno: Why not just use OS threads, since we have an implementation for them anyway? 22:35:49 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:36:14 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:18 well, sure. im more asking because i wanna know how it works when the kernel do not take care of it. 22:36:35 i do not have a direct need for it, but i still find this sort of stuff somewhat fascinating. :) 22:37:20 nyef: even with kernel threads, how do you handle memory allocation within each thread? 22:37:52 hypno: Usually memory allocation is global for the whole process, with separate stacks (i.e. single heap, multiple stacks) 22:38:09 you can however get disjoint address spaces on some systems (like Linux) 22:38:35 (and at that point ... why not different procs?) 22:39:28 pstickne: The call was introduced only for creating parts of address space which wouldn't be shared with other threads, not for creating completely separate address spaces... even if it could in theory do that :) 22:39:38 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 22:39:48 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:39:50 ahh :p 22:39:57 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 22:40:21 anyway, on linux there's not much difference between processes and threads, except that they share their heap by default 22:40:40 it's really nice now that 64-bit addresses are starting to really abound because now, for PCs, there is now a huge virtual mapping that can be applied over the physical mapping 22:40:45 and scheduler "knows" about their relation 22:40:57 p_l: and static data. and possibly other things 22:41:11 do you have a predetermined stack size for each thread or can it grow dynamicly? 22:41:44 hypno: AFAIK there's predefined stack size + dynamic growth. But I won't bet on it :) 22:41:52 hypno: on the OS level? predetermined, of course 22:42:35 on some architectures stacks are on heap anyway :) 22:42:36 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:42:41 ok, right. 22:43:01 but if your language runtime allows you to move things around, you don't have to use those OS-provided stacks 22:43:24 (you probably want to anyway, though) 22:44:14 ahaas pasted "remote swank and *globally-redirect-io*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74109 22:45:26 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:26 hmm, ok. in say, sbcl, do the gc or some other vm system take care of mmu mappings (PTD/PTEs) by itself or do the os also take care of that part? 22:45:31 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:45:44 hypno: I think OS takes care of that :) 22:45:49 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:00 SBCL as far as I know just calls mmap() 22:46:20 SBCL just calls mmap(). 22:46:22 ah, ok. 22:46:32 Except for that one hack... 22:47:56 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:49:44 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:45 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:55 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:53:49 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-120-91-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:56:58 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 22:57:34 -!- user___ [n=user@p54927B9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:59:05 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 22:59:13 -!- tomsw [n=user@d54C1C1A4.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 23:02:32 Foo. 23:02:44 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl10-158-56.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:03:12 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["leaving"] 23:04:12 Ugh. I'm doing a crossword, and so far I've found -four- #\X in the grid. 23:05:18 Is it the type of crossword where the pads(?) aren't specified in advance? 23:05:34 A diagramless crossword? No. 23:05:59 It's just the type of crossword put together with a lousy fill algorithm. 23:07:20 Cryptic crosswords are cool. 23:07:33 Though not in this sense of 'cryptic'. 23:08:01 Mmm. I'm not that great with the cryptic ones, but I'm better at them than the rest of my family. 23:08:02 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:17 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 23:11:36 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:24 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has quit [] 23:14:54 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless93.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:15:11 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:16:43 Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 23:19:06 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:19:55 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 23:19:58 -!- spec[afk] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["BB!"] 23:22:40 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:24 gorki [n=chatzill@p54A7E991.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:36 -!- gorki [n=chatzill@p54A7E991.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 23:24:04 -!- ksergio [n=sgarcia@mail.nuecho.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:26:08 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5d75.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 23:27:40 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 23:29:54 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:30:22 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 23:30:43 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@122.16.144.87] has quit ["sumo"] 23:31:03 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-119-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:26 -!- Guest2120 [n=user@72.14.228.89] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:33:56 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:35:00 -!- opt9 [n=user@59.7.205.138] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:39:26 -!- tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:50:40 dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 23:51:08 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:54:17 -!- Chrononaut [n=bjorn@obvcode.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:56:11 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:17 Beeet [n=stathis@ppp12-241.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:59:05 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-248-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp