00:00:17 30 00:00:24 you mean 2*3*5+1=31 ? 00:01:22 -!- fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has left #lisp 00:01:29 oh ok 30, I see, if the continuation is invoked, the result of the continuation is returned from the shift form 00:02:01 right .. if you used k elsewhere 00:02:26 tcr: (reset (* 2 (shift k (+ (k 3) 1)) 5)) = (let ((k (lambda (x) (* 2 x 5)))) (+ (k 3) 1)) 00:03:02 drewc: but no that can't be, it'd contradict to wiki's second example 00:03:41 Shift and reset express essentially that code transformation, generalized to be non-local. 00:04:13 (`Non-local' in the sense that the transformation crosses lexical boundaries.) 00:04:46 -!- housel [n=nhousel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:06:45 (I omitted a few resets to make nested shifts work: really the transformation should be (let ((k (lambda (x) (reset (* 2 x 5)))) (reset (+ (k 3) 1))). In this case the result is equivalent, since if no shift occurs in E, then (reset E) = E.) 00:09:45 blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:00 nrub [n=nrub@pool-72-67-216-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:08 (reset (* 2 (shift a (a 3)) (shift b (b 5)) 7)) would return 8820? 00:11:07 -!- holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:11:14 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:19 mejja [n=root@c-3fb7e455.44-2195-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:16:25 Transform it. Apologies for the lack of formatting: (reset (* 2 (shift a (a 3)) (shift b (b 5)) 7)) => (let ((a (lambda (x) (reset (* 2 x (shift b (b 5)) 7)))) (a 3)) => (let ((a (lambda (x) (let ((b (lambda (y) (* 2 x y 7)))) (b 5))))) (a 3)) => 210 00:16:49 Oops, there are a couple of missing delimiters. 00:18:51 ah ok I pulled the extra reset into A's body 00:18:59 I didn't pull it in I mean 00:19:18 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-080-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:22:51 kpreid [n=kpreid@pool-72-68-32-150.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:48 alek_b_ [n=alek_b@79.101.92.166] has joined #lisp 00:26:25 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 00:26:59 -!- mejja [n=root@c-3fb7e455.44-2195-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 00:27:58 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:58 dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-005-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:27 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 00:36:36 -!- netaust1n [n=austinsm@adsl-70-130-228-169.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit [] 00:37:46 -!- alek_b [n=alek_b@93.86.176.112] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:38:15 enodran [n=brandon@ip72-200-173-125.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:33 Oh, my. I just found the logical endpoint to this model I've been building for ptrace, and it ends up with a component written in C sitting on my NSLU2 mediating between a Lisp debugger running on a PC and an embryonic SBCL/ARM port. 00:40:14 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A7D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:41:04 -!- aszarsha [n=Aszarsha@dsl-67-55-12-235.acanac.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:41:38 -!- dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-013-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:43:33 -!- davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:46:01 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 00:49:03 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:06 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.33] has joined #lisp 01:02:59 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:01 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:04:07 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:04:55 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 01:07:57 beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has joined #lisp 01:08:01 Good morning 01:09:22 morning, indeed. 02:10 here. :) 01:10:06 -!- syamajal_ [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:15:02 -!- vorian is now known as awesome 01:15:20 -!- awesome is now known as vorian 01:19:49 Hello beach. 01:23:59 Adamant [n=Adamant@71-83-15-2.static.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:20 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:42 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:41:54 kpreid_ [n=kpreid@pool-72-68-45-195.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:21 -!- tcr [n=tcr@p4FD3E0FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:43:43 kenyon_ [n=kenyon_@xdsl-81-173-154-135.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:44:59 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:47:36 -!- davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:49:05 tcr [n=tcr@p4FD3E0FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:15 -!- kenyon [n=kenyon_@xdsl-81-173-184-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:49:41 -!- tcr [n=tcr@p4FD3E0FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:49:44 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:50:00 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@pool-72-68-32-150.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:51:47 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:46 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:57:48 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 01:58:06 -!- HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:08:33 -!- phf [n=phf@c-98-231-140-203.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:10:07 inertia- [n=inertia@unaffiliated/inertia-] has joined #lisp 02:13:32 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@195.116.35.13] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:13:56 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 02:14:01 -!- blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:14:34 blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:50 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:08 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 02:18:23 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:25:50 weirdo: did you come to a decision on the asdf replacement standard/wiki? 02:26:46 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 02:27:42 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 02:28:06 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:29:54 -!- davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:38:55 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ppp-70-242-123-153.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:39:16 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:48:09 -!- kpreid_ [n=kpreid@pool-72-68-45-195.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:49:47 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F991.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:51:23 beach` [n=user@203.210.248.212] has joined #lisp 02:56:16 -!- beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:56:19 -!- beach` is now known as beach 02:56:25 Hello beach. 02:57:10 Hello nyef. Still up? 02:57:18 Yeah, but probably not for long. 02:57:34 I'm just updating my notes on a few project ideas. 02:57:52 Any that I might be interested in? 02:58:02 Umm... Let's see... 02:58:30 Who is maintaining CLSQL now? 02:59:30 My ptrace debugger stuff, using trace-tables for unwind-protect in SBCL, and one of the prerequisites for user-mode-LispOS under Linux. 03:00:09 That last is seriously unlikely to happen any time soon. 03:00:51 Yeah, that sounds interesting. I don't think I will have time to read up on everything I need to know to be useful, though. At least not right now. 03:02:17 I'm sortof losing steam on the debugger thing, a bit. 03:02:38 That's unfortunate. 03:02:43 Yeah, it is. 03:02:43 But I know the feeling. 03:03:09 I'm hoping to find a good stopping point soon so I can mess with something else for a few days or more. 03:03:43 After all, it always was the sort of project that would have to be built in stages. 03:04:15 -!- blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:04:15 So if I get enough nailed down that I can have something to build on next time, that'd be good. 03:04:32 Or if someone -else- can build on it. 03:04:41 Guest776 [n=JC@c-69-243-86-166.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:42 Sounds like a plan. Pretty hard to implement sometimes. 03:08:20 gcv [n=gcv@ool-4572f4ca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:09 Okay, time for me to head bedwards. 03:09:14 -!- dlisboa [n=diogo@bd214061.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:29 'night nyef 03:09:32 Enjoy your day, and I should be back in about... ten hours or so? 03:09:46 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-255-137-188.cncdnh.east.verizon.net] has quit ["G'night beach, all."] 03:09:58 -!- Guest776 [n=JC@c-69-243-86-166.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:12:11 S11001001: kmr is maintaining it, but he has a very high latency in responding to emails 03:14:16 -!- beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has left #lisp 03:15:16 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-85.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 03:19:00 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-85.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 03:19:51 enodran_ [n=brandon@ip72-200-173-125.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:51 -!- enodran_ [n=brandon@ip72-200-173-125.ri.ri.cox.net] has 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has joined #lisp 04:07:12 -!- Nocebojin [n=shaun@CPE-124-186-227-195.qld.bigpond.net.au] has left #lisp 04:07:30 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 04:09:52 is it possible to write a function which returns 0.0 if (expt x y) yields an underflow else (expt x y) ? 04:13:41 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["bye"] 04:15:48 (handler-case (expt 2.0 3) ((floating-point-underflow floating-point-overflow) () .0)) ? 04:16:42 errr, slightly wrong 04:17:01 (or floating-point-underflow floating-point-overflow) 04:18:50 or (or (ignore-errors (expt 2.0 33343)) 0.0) 04:19:57 then it will also ignore (expt 0 -1) 04:21:20 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22:10 stassats: thanks -- yeah this is what I need....I am writing a genetic programming exercise and getting every possible "exception/error" from (expt x y) 04:23:09 but I havent used the condition handlers in lisp yet 04:24:57 -!- saikat 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["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 07:11:58 -!- gzip4 [n=xxx@78.108.73.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:22:25 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:24:27 -!- billc [n=user@S0106001b63f442be.vn.shawcable.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:35:15 srp_ [n=srp@122.172.29.89] has joined #lisp 07:38:19 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:40:52 -!- Beket [n=Beket@athedsl-418547.home.otenet.gr] has quit [] 07:42:30 -!- srp [n=srp@122.172.2.116] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:43:15 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-28-244.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 07:48:00 Beket [n=Beket@athedsl-418547.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:52:52 GrayMagiker [n=Twilight@75-173-1-137.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:26 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 08:06:20 -!- ehu` changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language: , . New: usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.12, SBCL 1.0.23, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10 08:10:16 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.166.64] has joined #lisp 08:20:43 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 08:27:34 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-28-244.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:29:15 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-30-49.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 08:34:32 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:41 another day another lambda! 08:37:05 :) 08:37:05 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.238.75] has joined #lisp 08:37:18 lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:37:40 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:38:31 why wont the gc rip a cons apart ? 08:38:34 -!- GrayMagiker [n=Twilight@75-173-1-137.albq.qwest.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 08:39:11 lhz: huh? 08:40:49 In sbcl a cons is stored without an header. 08:41:42 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:42:36 pjb: thanks for the i18n code for clsql in cll mate. it's still worth lurking in that place. 08:48:42 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:49:37 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.6] has joined #lisp 08:52:56 lhz: cons pointers are tagged, and the gc knows that the tagged pointer points to a doubleword 08:53:18 the cons ceases to exist if there are no cons pointers pointing to it 08:57:08 tagged using a lowtag ? 09:00:09 -!- brianj_otter is now known as brianj_otterZZZ 09:02:15 right, all cons pointers are (roughly) xxxxxxx2, and you mask off the 2 before dereferencing 09:02:46 if there are none of those around, then nothing points to the cons in question (in lisp terms, the cons is not reachable) and so the gc is free to do whatever it likes to it 09:02:52 ok a cons-pointer, that points to for example two fixnums in a row. 09:03:28 yes 09:03:38 that would be ( . ) 09:04:02 I thought the cons (those fixnums) was self-describing, using lowtags, but that cant work. 09:04:49 I mean, it can be made to work; it's not how it does work in sbcl now 09:05:40 skv [n=user@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:03 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.238.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:17:28 Krystof, thanks! 09:19:58 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:23:37 oudeis [n=oudeis@89.139.68.237] has joined #lisp 09:29:20 nicolas [n=nicolas@aqu33-5-82-245-96-5.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:21 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:31:23 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:24 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 09:33:01 tcr [n=tcr@p4FD3CDFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:02 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.33] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:35:15 why do we emit-aligment (emit-return-pc) between branch instructions and return address, won't that mess up where we land ? 09:35:40 emit-alignment 09:35:40 bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:09 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:41:52 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 09:42:14 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 09:42:48 as I can see, we emit an nop at the first return address to cover the alignment case where we would land on the next address. Is this correct ? 09:49:55 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 09:51:03 Davidbrcz [n=david@83.195.208.22] has joined #lisp 09:55:26 -!- jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has quit ["off to work."] 10:00:09 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:02:26 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.33] has joined #lisp 10:02:37 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 10:08:42 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 10:11:44 clsql + split-sequence weirdness 10:12:59 never mind 10:13:01 sheesh 10:25:41 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 10:27:22 -!- schme_ is now known as schme 10:28:47 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 10:37:41 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:41:28 -!- wormphlegm [n=george@c-98-234-189-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 10:42:21 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 10:44:18 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 10:44:40 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-25-153.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 10:45:31 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 10:45:43 who's writing LispNews? 10:45:54 I'd like to add ABCL 0.12 and usocket 0.4.1 10:46:03 but have no mail addy 10:48:13 *Aankhen``* wonders if he could rely on CXML for parsing the XML portion of E4X. 10:54:22 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:55:57 Hello Athas! 10:57:46 robyonrails [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:58:06 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:58:33 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:59:23 milanj [n=milan@93.86.22.90] has joined #lisp 11:04:29 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:06:30 Hi jso! 11:07:34 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:07:51 It's been a while. ;P Anyhow, I've started down a path that involves developing a multitouch interface device. And I've been thinking about how to use that for programming. 11:08:38 The obvious method, to me, is to develop a graphical programming language. I've seen what smalltalk can do, but I believe that lisp's concept of reflection with code as data is ideal for this. 11:08:50 So, now I'm trying to get GLX to work with CLX. :D 11:09:28 My machine isn't all that cooperative right now, but I believe it to be an erroneous call to open-font. 11:09:44 Do you know if the OpenGL backend to McCLIM is still functional? Or ever was, for that matter? 11:13:13 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:13:24 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:27 kiuma [i=51d06a4b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-589f2bc6a82316c5] has joined #lisp 11:15:34 hello lispers 11:18:00 Metal-Militia [i=aust1n@74-36-252-239.br1.nwr.wi.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:27 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:21:15 -!- bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:22:24 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:27:12 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit [] 11:27:41 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-25-153.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:27:45 hello kiuma 11:28:38 kiuma: could you give me a list of packages I need to install for CLAW? There used to be a list in the manual, but it seems to be gone 11:28:49 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:32:32 NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 11:33:22 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F07A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:40 m4dnificent: what do you mean by gone ? 11:34:12 -!- Beket [n=Beket@athedsl-418547.home.otenet.gr] has quit [] 11:34:40 m4dnificent: claw-as :depends-on (:closer-mop :cl-ppcre :cl-fad :alexandria :local-time :split-sequence :bordeaux-threads :md5) 11:35:05 kiuma: I couldn't find them anymore. I just found them again (perhaps I should get a coffee first :)) 11:35:25 lol 11:36:07 m4dnificent: we have claw-central.org 11:36:22 it will be developed with CLAW :) 11:41:05 kiuma: wohooooow :D 11:44:25 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf76e.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 11:44:26 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0090.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:46:19 -!- Metal-Militia [i=aust1n@74-36-252-239.br1.nwr.wi.frontiernet.net] has left #lisp 11:49:53 Dodek [n=user@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 11:51:06 hey, does anyone have an e-mail to Paul Graham? 11:51:13 yes 11:51:19 but you cant have it :) 11:51:40 oh, that's a pity 11:51:48 i can't find it myself 11:51:49 incidentally if you rummage around on HN you will find allusions to his email addy 11:52:00 yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:52:43 i've got few questions to him about his book. 11:52:52 mrSpec [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 11:53:01 Hi! 11:53:11 Dodek: what kind of questions? you might be better off making a post or something 11:53:27 about copyright to On Lisp. 11:54:29 Dodek: What question exactly? 11:54:34 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:55:29 i wanted to ask if he would permit doing a translation and under what kind of license could it be distributed. 11:55:38 amos_ [n=amos_@host86-145-162-199.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:09 I don't know how old this is, but according to http://paulgraham.com/callforbugs.html, On Lisp is supposed to be reprinted 11:56:34 So if you do a translation, the translation is presumably supposed to be distributed in book form. 11:58:00 oh no, my monitor started to do this awful sound again 11:58:43 what does the #.(make-pathname ...) means ? (I mean the "#." ) 11:59:18 anyway, i already saw that page and found it strange he asks for sending bug reports to his e-mail and i do not have it. 12:00:19 dodek: It's presumably pg at paulgraham dot com? 12:00:20 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:00:48 i'll try it, thank you. 12:02:16 srp [n=srp@122.172.20.185] has joined #lisp 12:02:16 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has left #lisp 12:03:53 O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 12:04:22 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89.139.68.237] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:05:45 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-7223771caaa8bb48] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:07:27 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.239.228] has joined #lisp 12:08:01 -!- srp_ [n=srp@122.172.29.89] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:08:45 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 12:09:23 srp_ [n=srp@122.172.22.2] has joined #lisp 12:09:55 Hah! Apparently CLX's implementation of GLX interaction has a tendency to corrupt my X session when I'm using Compiz. What fun! 12:10:54 But, I figured out the problem with GLX. GLX:CHOOSE-VISUAL grabs the wrong visual EVERY TIME! Now to figure out why. 12:11:02 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:11:03 what is Compiz? 12:11:47 Compiz := new x.org support for GLUs 12:12:03 Compisiting window manager. Basically it renders everything in OpenGL and has pretty effects. But, what I really like it for is that it waits until a render is complete before updating stuff. 12:12:15 yes, I see. 12:12:31 Its almost freakin' 2009 and I still watch my windows draw themselves. I don't understand why. 12:12:33 locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-71e0b8d7b21d89de] has joined #lisp 12:12:44 jso: get a Mac. 12:12:54 just at likely it's the source of the corruption of X I would think. 12:12:58 *as 12:13:16 e271: I had a mac. It was a nightmare to develop hardware drivers for. 12:13:25 jso: yeah. 12:13:28 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:13:50 Apple: We'll use BSD and then ignore the UNIX way of doing things. haha! Everyone will love our APIs and reading the documentation for everything. 12:14:02 I decided to give up such "hardware" hackery for the Y2K. Getting too old to do both, I guess... 12:14:11 Linux: Yeah, I see your HID thingy, here's a file. Read it for the device's events. 12:14:24 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 12:14:42 jso: I had that problem with choose-visual as well. I don't remember any details but look at the CLX mailing list, I sent a version of that function that worked for me there. 12:14:48 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 12:14:53 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 12:14:53 Well, I have this neat 6DOF input device. Here on my lab computer, I run linux and it took 30 minutes to figure out how to read input from the device and turn on/off the leds. 12:14:59 Jordan Hubbard has done well at Apple. The OSX userland is pretty good these days. 12:15:07 mikezor: Awesome! I'll check that out! 12:15:21 FreeBSD has really missed his release engineering/involvement. 12:15:22 zrak [n=bobo@77.28.12.74] has joined #lisp 12:15:40 i do the function (setq l '(a 1)) 12:15:53 then i do (get 'l 'a), and i get NIL 12:15:59 what's the problem??? 12:16:04 But I agree that hardware is still a sketchy story. Mainly since there is no real good open Darwin distribution as promised. 12:16:07 On my (now sold) MBP it took 6 hours of reading documentation and using their "superior" IOKit interface to get the system to acknowledge that the device was connected. 12:16:28 zrak: the problem is that you are guessing the semantics of the operations rather than looking them up 12:16:28 That's about how it would take me as well. 12:16:40 s/how it/how long it/ 12:16:58 Yeah. That shouldn't be the case on a freakin' HID-compliant device. 12:17:08 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:08 adeht: so should i do it? 12:17:10 Its a 3DConnexion Space Traveler, btw. 12:17:10 jso: Agreed. 12:17:19 clhs get 12:17:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_get.htm 12:17:24 zrak: check out this page 12:17:35 The Apple documentation can be quite good though. They're Objective C explanation is quote a good read. 12:17:41 e271: pretty common little device for the CAD and CGI business. Yet, no official support. 12:17:44 s/explanation/explanation/ 12:18:05 s/They're/Their/ 12:18:08 e271: I don't knock them for that. Documentation is good, but seriously, just follow the UNIX principles and things would work a lot smoother. 12:18:37 jso: What type of OS do you typically do hardware drives for? Linux? 12:18:37 e271: Heh, Obj-C has nice file input/output capabilities. ;P 12:18:41 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 12:18:44 e271: Yup. 12:19:03 e271: Everything from kernel drivers to user space interfaces. 12:19:11 jso: I've always ben impressed that Linux works as well it it does for hardware. 12:19:35 *e271* should get an Android build going. 12:20:00 e271: The architecture for hardware is very clean. Not to mention, unlike Windows and Mac OS X, they only worry about things like PCI IDs or USB IDs instead of specific serial numbers. 12:20:41 jso: can you do it all as dynamic modules, i.e. without tearing down the OS to switch drivers? 12:20:43 e271: You should see the rants of the MS Devs about how its impossible to do it that way. And that is why you must install drivers each time you plug the device into a different USB port. 12:20:58 e271: That's the only way to fly. :P 12:21:02 *e271* doesn't do Windows. 12:21:07 same. 12:22:13 adeht: i don't get the example it's to complicated 12:22:51 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.22.90] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:22:54 Still, I am looking forward to OpenCL. Should make some sexpr bindings for those puppies at least. 12:23:31 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:23:36 Is it possible to do that? I know that GLSL is a specific c-like language. 12:24:00 zrak: what don't you get about get? 12:24:26 why it doesn't work with my function 12:24:27 kiuma: #. means "reader, please evaluate this" 12:24:28 setq 12:24:59 zrak: `setq' is not a function, and it works very well, only that your expectations are wrong 12:25:16 so i should do it with setf? 12:25:36 zrak: (setf (get 'my-symbol 'my-property) 'my-value) then (get 'my-symbol 'my-property) 12:26:09 -!- srp [n=srp@122.172.20.185] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:27:27 adeht: what is my-property? 12:27:30 the property list? 12:28:37 ejs1 [n=eugen@77-109-31-171.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 12:28:57 adeht: but know i can't make a list that contains sublists made of two elements 12:29:23 mikezor: Thanks alot! You're patch did the trick! 12:29:30 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:29:38 zrak: what are you trying to do exactly? 12:30:41 adeht: (setf l '((a 1) '(b 2) '(c 3))), list like this one, and i want to access the items like (get 'l 'b) and to get 2 12:31:36 zrak: more like (setf (get 'l 'a) 1) (setf (get 'l 'b) 2) (setf (get 'l 'c) 3) then (get 'l 'b) ==> 2 12:31:53 i seee 12:31:56 thanks a lot 12:32:08 zrak: again, you are guessing rather than looking things up. 12:32:17 minion: tell zrak about gentle 12:32:17 zrak: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 12:33:24 jso: I'm glad you found it useful! 12:34:05 (Didn't even take two years for somebody to need it!) 12:34:25 -!- tcr [n=tcr@p4FD3CDFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:35:09 -!- drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:36:12 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.239.228] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:37:33 hah! Did it happen to make its way into the telent (or whatever they're calling it) CVS? 12:38:23 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:38:43 I don't think so. But I don't really use CLX for anything anymore. 12:39:09 I see. Hmm. Perhaps I can nudge someone. :P 12:39:16 it's tagged in my buffer 12:39:32 if you reply to it there's a chance I'll get to it sometime in January 12:40:53 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:41:37 who runs LispNews? I want to mail the person. 12:42:58 chris2 [n=chris@p5B168B4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:48 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:07 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:10 caliostro [n=caliostr@host-84-222-131-16.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:49:48 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:50:03 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:57:15 -!- amos_ [n=amos_@host86-145-162-199.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:02:45 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:04:26 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 13:06:40 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-255-137-188.cncdnh.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:47 G'morning all. 13:13:12 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.33] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:13:49 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.33] has joined #lisp 13:16:56 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77-109-31-171.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:22:55 ak70 [n=ak70@195.158.102.232] has joined #lisp 13:23:43 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.33] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:24:37 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:26:28 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-10.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:28:37 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.236.6] has joined #lisp 13:36:00 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:36:44 ehu, Camm Maguire (camm@enhanced.com) I think 13:37:25 -!- ak70 [n=ak70@195.158.102.232] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:39:49 oops: LispNews.wordpress.com => Then drop me a mail (reverse '("com" "." "yahoo" "@" "anyakinvictor")). 13:39:57 Hun [n=Hun@dial18-69.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE] has joined #lisp 13:43:33 amos_ [n=amos_@host86-145-162-199.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:31 hey nyef 13:46:12 hello lispers 13:46:21 Amen 13:46:39 hey caliostro 13:47:58 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:49:35 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 13:54:49 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4319.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:54 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:46 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 13:59:01 -!- spec[afk] [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:00:39 weirdo pasted "CDR with-readtable-iterator" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72732 14:01:00 minion, memo for tcr: here's yer CDR: http://paste.lisp.org/display/72732 14:01:00 Remembered. I'll tell tcr when he/she/it next speaks. 14:04:17 weirdo: what kind of black magic is that/ 14:04:27 s/\//?/ 14:04:35 huh? 14:04:54 just looked at that paste ^^ 14:05:08 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 14:07:39 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:22 Hun` [n=Hun@vpn18-185.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE] has joined #lisp 14:12:30 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf76e.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:13:47 bobo_ [n=bobo@77.28.16.34] has joined #lisp 14:15:13 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:16:32 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:16:43 Hun`` [n=Hun@Hunlappy2.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has joined #lisp 14:17:02 kenyon [n=kenyon_@xdsl-81-173-147-249.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:17:03 -!- caliostro [n=caliostr@host-84-222-131-16.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 14:17:17 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.236.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:18:36 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has joined #lisp 14:19:26 -!- kiuma [i=51d06a4b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-589f2bc6a82316c5] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 14:20:11 -!- Hun [n=Hun@dial18-69.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE] has quit [No route to host] 14:20:30 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 14:21:47 -!- kenyon_ [n=kenyon_@xdsl-81-173-154-135.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:24:42 -!- Hun`` is now known as Hun 14:24:55 decafbad [n=mehmet@78.168.57.104] has joined #lisp 14:25:58 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.6] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 Hi! Where is the most up-to-date SBCL Git repo? 14:26:52 Hello all. I am trying to start a swank server on a NSLU2 machine (ARM) but it appears that SLIME is not ARM friendly. Any pointers or general tips? 14:27:17 Is it the one by Andreas Fuchs or by Nikodemus Siivola? 14:28:37 magnus__: I run SLIME on ARM frequently. 14:28:48 magnus__: and swank too, ya. 14:29:23 magnus__: What errors and such are you getting? 14:31:41 -!- zrak [n=bobo@77.28.12.74] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:32:07 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-224-50.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 14:32:09 kiuma [i=51d06a4b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-329a487c2a0272e7] has joined #lisp 14:32:21 -!- Hun` [n=Hun@vpn18-185.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:34:11 mrSpec [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 14:36:15 ebzzry: antifuchs's repo simply tracks the mainline, so it's a safe bet 14:38:03 mvatki [n=michael@c-24-23-89-19.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:23 beach [n=user@58.186.158.204] has joined #lisp 14:38:27 Good evening 14:39:01 cmm: Thanks! 14:39:38 matley [n=matley@83.225.237.113] has joined #lisp 14:40:55 -!- mvatki [n=michael@c-24-23-89-19.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:42:04 Hello beach. 14:42:45 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@bakkdoor-ubuntu.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has joined #lisp 14:42:56 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit ["going to moon brb"] 14:43:17 milanj [n=milan@93.86.187.124] has joined #lisp 14:43:25 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:49 bakkdoor_ [n=bakkdoor@bakkdoor-ubuntu.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has joined #lisp 14:43:50 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@bakkdoor-ubuntu.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:44:28 -!- bakkdoor_ is now known as bakkdoor 14:44:30 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 14:45:08 Hun` [n=Hun@Hunlappy2.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has joined #lisp 14:45:34 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 14:46:12 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:46:29 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has joined #lisp 14:46:48 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:46:59 hi beach. 14:47:09 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@bakkdoor-ubuntu.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:47:14 beach: good morning. 14:47:16 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@bakkdoor-ubuntu.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has joined #lisp 14:50:53 -!- pet-ro [i=Peter@p4FE955D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 14:54:11 morning r2q2 14:55:44 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host1-120-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:55:46 foobar__ [n=_prip@host41-133-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:56:00 -!- foobar__ is now known as prip 14:56:36 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:56:40 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:57:29 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:57:56 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-224-50.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:58:30 -!- Hun [n=Hun@Hunlappy2.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:00:01 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:00:11 -!- Hun` is now known as Hun 15:00:20 knobo [n=user@ti0073a340-0844.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:00:34 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-71e0b8d7b21d89de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:01:21 locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-323e59a758d20a96] has joined #lisp 15:01:27 If i want to calculate something at compile-time, that should be available during load-time, how do I do that the best way? 15:01:59 clhs load-time-value 15:01:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_ld_tim.htm 15:02:09 or #. 15:02:48 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@bakkdoor-ubuntu.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:03:35 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 15:03:41 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-85.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 15:04:38 I todaly forgot about "#.". I think that would solve my issue here. 15:09:37 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-85.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 15:09:46 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:10:32 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 15:12:25 ice4 [n=ice4@host86-131-244-48.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:37 -!- ice4 [n=ice4@host86-131-244-48.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:15:17 *cmm* catches up on the mailing lists 15:15:39 so, I take it that Helmut uses SLIME without the REPL? 15:16:09 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@72-255-2-138.client.stsn.net] has quit [] 15:16:18 never even thought that would be workable, let alone convenient 15:16:25 dys` [n=andreas@p5B313DE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:43 kpreid [n=kpreid@72-255-2-138.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:50 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:17:37 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit [Operation timed out] 15:17:47 blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D5EDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:15 cmm: false 15:18:51 froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:05 bobo__ [n=bobo@77.28.20.50] has joined #lisp 15:19:19 this is heller's response to madhu's request to get a different history behavior on the repl 15:19:35 michaelw: oh 15:20:09 how... disproportionate 15:20:28 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 15:21:56 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B316887.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:23:49 tcr: I implemented CDR6 in ABCL. (Identifiable through the :CDR6 *features* keyword). Will SLIME be able to use it? 15:23:53 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-37-203.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:24:23 I'd like to write a macro for simplyfying my asd file, the macro is: 15:25:54 kiuma pasted "make-pathname" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72734 15:28:40 kiuma: why do you think you should have #.(make-pathname ...)? 15:29:01 kiuma: how many elements does your asd file have? 15:31:11 michaelw: I had in a previous asd file, I don't know if #. is strictly necessary 15:31:39 ehu`: the project will have many components/files 15:32:31 basically 3 folders: ./src/, ./src/pages/ ,./src/components/ 15:33:05 -!- bobo_ [n=bobo@77.28.16.34] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:33:19 michaelw: #. was not flour of my bag, but a suggestion given time ago 15:35:41 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@72-255-2-138.client.stsn.net] has quit [] 15:40:00 -!- _8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:40:03 _8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:41:16 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:47:24 -!- egn [n=egn@c-76-25-206-124.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:48:22 thanks to YUI, I just invented the world's first diagonal scrollbar 15:48:49 CSS bugs, they crush teh soulxorz *sigh* 15:48:50 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:49:01 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has joined #lisp 15:50:40 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:50:45 zoranoth [n=gla@93.sub-75-250-122.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:50:51 benny [n=benny@i577A19E1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:51:41 kiuma: I have never seen anybody requiring that to get their asdf packages working. You can give asdf a directory name, which it automatically merges with file name. 15:52:06 if you want filename to have a .lisp extention, do it in :file... 15:56:32 -!- merAch [n=none@c-71-199-20-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:02:52 kpreid [n=kpreid@pool-72-68-45-195.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:58 blitz__ [n=julian@pD95D7D0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:24 kiuma annotated #72734 with "hou should it be?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72734#1 16:03:37 ehu` ? 16:05:02 how do you connect slime to an ncurses app that already got io's redirected away from ncurses ? 16:05:54 kiuma: anything which is more readable than what you have, if you want anybody but you to be able to understand it. 16:06:18 lhz: What does your app -do-, anyway? 16:06:43 -!- Hun [n=Hun@Hunlappy2.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:07:42 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D5EDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:07:54 it is talking to jackd, which I also suspect could make slime/emacs not work. 16:08:22 ehu`, ok thanks 16:09:20 This may be one of those times where you just have to find out what the mechanisms used by each piece of software you're trying to use is, and what the requirements are for making those mechansisms coexist peacefully are. 16:12:20 *kiuma* will take there holidays to sit down and crefully read asdf 16:12:32 it's really hard to get "requirements" when you're the one originating the ideas to begin with 16:13:01 i.e. hard to know when something is 'good enough' 16:14:15 fusss: True. But if you're messing with jackd, trying to use ncurses for a UI, and want to use SLIME, you can still evaluate what the semantics are of each piece separately and in combination, and at that point you can then ascertain what your options are. 16:14:42 in that case, yeah 16:15:23 for reference, i was thinking more of my site which has a basic shopping cart 16:15:33 -!- sepisultrun [n=user@ks35219.kimsufi.com] has left #lisp 16:15:48 Yeah, in that case it's a bit harder. 16:15:57 i though "why not give users a sortable table view? they can the pass to their purchasing department and .. 16:16:07 and oh, why not give them an icon view? 16:16:19 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:27 so now my site looks like file manager :-/ 16:16:57 However, for a shopping cart, the primary requirement is that users can buy stuff, so implement that. After that, instrument your pageviews, solicit feedback from your users, etc. 16:17:14 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:54 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:18:36 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:18:58 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has joined #lisp 16:19:10 hmmmm. i must resist the urge to try new things before the old ones are finished 16:19:17 In my current case, I'm dealing with ptrace(2). This gives me ptrace(2) as the control interface, waitpid(2) as the event-reading interface (with blocking and non-blocking modes), and SIGCHLD as an event notification interface. 16:19:43 -!- Dodek [n=user@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:19:44 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:19:47 that doesn't sound very ajaxy :-S 16:19:53 It isn't. 16:20:14 But there's no reason that you can't put an ajax front-end on it. :-P 16:20:28 last time i futzed with linux ptrace, we were trying to get it to dump register snap shots 16:20:41 does it do that now? 16:20:54 "dump register snap shots"? 16:20:59 yep 16:21:26 i tried to use ptrace single stepping like INT 3 plus "r" command in Windows debuggers 16:22:00 Ah, so you could see before-and-after shots of the register file around each instruction? 16:22:06 yeah 16:22:12 Seems easy enough to me. 16:22:38 kernel 2.0; you couldn't trace a child sufficiently 16:22:44 Ah. 16:22:57 Wait, you couldn't? 16:23:03 the child could always tell it was being traced, and it called HorriblyDiea() 16:23:55 kids these days.. 16:23:58 Yeah, that'd take figuring out how it could tell, and rewriting the registers and whatnot when it happened. 16:24:01 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:22 But basic getregs, setregs, and singlestep seems easy enough. 16:25:51 it was always easy, but hostile code is hostile code. 16:26:10 ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:15 a determined process can take ptrace on a spin 16:26:33 so you needed an LKM debugger to handle things with more control 16:27:21 swiping whatever you wanted from the task struct (iirc) 16:27:52 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:28:34 so, I have a list of strings, and I want to concatenate them. (concatenate 'string s1 s2 ...) seems like the way to go, but I can't figure out how to splice the string list I have into the function call. How would I do that? 16:29:21 I was thinking of apply, but I need to pass a first argument, so the prototype of apply doesn't, well, apply :) 16:29:50 It doesn't? 16:30:04 (apply #'concatenare 'string s1 s2 list-of-s3-onward) 16:30:23 um? 16:30:24 (Apply only spreads the last arg in the list.) 16:30:30 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:30:46 ooh. Apply spreads the last arg. I did not know that. 16:30:47 Cheers 16:31:09 Something new every day, huh? 16:31:48 especially at my level of expertise with CL. 16:33:18 *fusss* silently replaces ugly uses of ,@ with apply and hopes no one is looking 16:36:18 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.187.124] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:38:59 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:41:19 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 16:43:30 sepisultrun [n=user@ks35219.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:45 How can I get a string from a common lisp pathname? 16:44:11 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:45:28 -!- blitz__ [n=julian@pD95D7D0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:47:26 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 16:48:12 clhs namestring 16:48:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 16:48:27 samkayley [n=thedeepe@5ac38cbd.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:57 thanks a lot 16:49:29 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:50:50 Hun [n=Hun@81.163.116.185] has joined #lisp 16:50:58 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.54] has joined #lisp 16:51:46 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:52:16 wol [n=wol@c-24-4-220-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:23 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:54:15 i can has universal-time subsecond precision in ansi cl? 16:54:54 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.237.113] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:55:57 ashmawy [n=gfh@41.233.150.209] has joined #lisp 16:57:14 how can i get the name of a function , example if i have a function #'foo stored in a certain data structure , i can reference the function itself , but how can i get the name of the function given the function reference ? 16:57:42 <_3b> it might not have a name, or might have multiple names 16:58:02 -!- kenyon [n=kenyon_@xdsl-81-173-147-249.netcologne.de] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"] 16:58:07 it might not have a name if its a random lambda expression right ? 16:58:16 <_3b> right 16:58:21 but thats not the case 16:58:39 if it has one , can i get it ? 16:59:13 <_3b> not portably as far as i know, might be able to on specific implementations (not that i know how on any of them) 16:59:35 i am about to add to the data structure i am storing in the function another slot called alias and give an alias name beside the reference and then get the name from there. But i am looking for a more efficient way 17:00:31 <_3b> if you want to remember a specific name for a function, storing that name sounds reasonable 17:00:40 name of a function? 17:00:41 hmm 17:00:47 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:49 see how ESCRIBE does it 17:01:20 (labels ((foo () 42)) (describe #'foo)) 17:01:23 sounds like a start 17:02:11 <_3b> oh yeah, valid names that no longer refer to that function (like after flet/labels returns) are another problem case 17:02:32 defmethod describe-object ((x function) s) 17:02:36 Do function even have "names" ? 17:02:41 # is an interpreted function. 17:02:42 Argument list: () 17:02:48 <_3b> schme: that was my point :) 17:03:19 yeahhh , i get the point . But that would look messy in the code ... think ill add to the structure and get it from there 17:03:25 weirdo: thnx mate :) 17:03:26 <_3b> ashmawy: what do you plan to do with the names? 17:03:40 _3b: concat them in a list 17:04:01 (nth-value 2 (sb-int::function-lambda-expression (labels ((foo () 42)) #'foo))) 17:04:02 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.6] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:04:19 ashmawy: Why do you want 'em in a list? 17:04:24 => (labels foo) 17:05:13 #-sbcl (princ fn) 17:05:18 ashmawy: I have a thing here where I store functions in slots in objects, and I also put various ones of 'em in a list. For calling 'em. I have no names, names would complicate it for me atleast :) 17:05:20 ugh, princ-to-string 17:05:47 schme: i am implementing something that uses searching , so after getting the last node operator (function) i am planning to backtrack to the first node and add the operators (functions) in a list 17:06:02 so i fixed the polish wikipedia's common lisp article. not like anyone cares :) 17:06:14 ashmawy: Ok. Do you need names of functions for that though? 17:06:36 -!- amos_ [n=amos_@host86-145-162-199.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:06:45 schme: yes , because putting them as they are looks very messy 17:06:55 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:00 ashmawy: Only if you look at the list ;) 17:07:45 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:54 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C3C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:07 schme: yep . thats exactly the case ... it needs to be human readable 17:08:11 oh. 17:08:17 schme: something that the user will see 17:08:19 Darned humans. 17:08:24 :) 17:08:30 Anyways thanx ppl 17:08:45 I think your best bet is to store the binding you want for it off somewhere. 17:08:48 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:09:01 And don't come back asking for how to find the name of strings and numbers! ;) 17:09:12 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C3C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:09:21 -!- jlf [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:09:28 -!- zoranoth [n=gla@93.sub-75-250-122.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:09:47 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:51 lol 17:10:09 ill try the struct sol now , thnx anyways :) 17:10:12 -!- ashmawy [n=gfh@41.233.150.209] has quit [] 17:10:22 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.6] has joined #lisp 17:10:26 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 17:10:28 It does seem kinda easy to do though. Just not in a portable way ;) 17:10:28 oh 17:10:30 too slow! 17:11:19 Hello schme. 17:11:28 egn [i=18e73c8c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4e9e84ade56ad93e] has joined #lisp 17:12:59 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:13:14 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has joined #lisp 17:13:43 verdammelt [n=user@c-66-30-15-122.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:52 -!- kiuma [i=51d06a4b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-329a487c2a0272e7] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:14:14 -!- verdammelt [n=user@c-66-30-15-122.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:15:01 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:15:39 hi, I'm getting these warnings/errors when trying to use the clsql reader syntax after I enable the syntax (or so I think) 17:16:04 http://paste.lisp.org/display/72736 17:16:40 in select-it: (clsql:select 'entry :where [= [slot-value 'entry 'id ] 0])) 17:18:04 egn: Seems like it is not enabled :) 17:18:21 -!- fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:18:28 egn: Why do you enable it twice? 17:18:46 That messes stuff up for me.. try disable and enable it one time :) 17:19:01 schme: okay, let me see 17:19:30 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.6] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:20:23 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:21:20 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.6] has joined #lisp 17:21:38 schme: woot, thanks 17:23:25 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:24:08 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:40 rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-58-34.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:26:36 egn: n/p. I have the same issue quite often :) 17:26:57 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C3C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:44 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 17:28:07 knobo` [n=user@ti0073a340-0844.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:28:41 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.6] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- egn [i=18e73c8c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4e9e84ade56ad93e] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@83.195.208.22] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- l4ndfo [n=l4ndfo@catv-89-132-93-183.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- akhilleus [n=joe@206.81.49.171] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- abend [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- scode [n=scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:28:41 -!- p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:29:38 egn_ [i=18e73c8c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-97aac62c5c1ac1bf] has joined #lisp 17:31:00 akhilleus [n=joe@206.81.49.171] has joined #lisp 17:31:23 -!- hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:31:29 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:31:35 hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 17:31:54 tarbo__ [n=me@pool-96-235-18-120.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:34 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:33:46 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:05 spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 17:34:06 -!- hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit [Killed by calvino.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 17:34:14 hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 Davidbrcz [n=david@83.195.208.22] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 l4ndfo [n=l4ndfo@catv-89-132-93-183.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 scode [n=scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:17 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@83.195.208.22] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:34:37 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-38-22.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:34:44 abend [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:45 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.6] has joined #lisp 17:39:33 emma_ [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:40:58 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:41:50 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:41:54 -!- bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:42:00 bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:05 Does anyone know if there are conventions, either generally or in SBCL, for the allocation of posix real-time signals? 17:42:12 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:42:17 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:42:43 -!- knobo [n=user@ti0073a340-0844.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:42:55 -!- lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:42:59 -!- bhall [n=bhall@unaffiliated/bhall] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:01 -!- simonb [n=simon@ellen.simonb.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:07 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:19 -!- prip [n=_prip@host41-133-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:19 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.176.161] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:43:22 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A19E1.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:24 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:26 lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 17:43:36 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@195.116.35.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:48 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:53 prip [n=_prip@host41-133-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:44:16 mathrick [n=mathrick@195.116.35.13] has joined #lisp 17:44:57 gnu propaganda amazes me - http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/x.html 17:45:22 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 17:45:23 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:46:31 -!- emma_ [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:46:42 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:46:51 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 17:50:23 ThomasI [n=thomas@p5B0EF238.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:39 -!- egn_ [i=18e73c8c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-97aac62c5c1ac1bf] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:51:37 weirdo: Indeed. There is some amazingly strange logic involved in the promotion of copyleft. 17:52:49 In fact, the entire concept of what they're promoting is a double-standard. 17:52:55 Why so? 17:52:56 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Client Quit] 17:53:20 tic: They don't like X being made proprietary because then they'd have to take it or leave it. 17:53:26 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:53:33 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:53:37 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:53:41 But then they advocate the take it or leave it stance with respect to changing the license on GPL software. 17:53:51 marketing freedom by word play and actually /restricting/ freedom in practice as compared to other licenses? 17:54:01 yeah. 17:54:02 And the entire thing is a twisted coercion effort -anyway-. 17:54:04 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:54:27 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 17:56:16 Ugh. Too much text on that page. 17:56:30 (yet it doesn't say anything useful, to me.) 17:59:35 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:43 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has joined #lisp 18:00:01 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:00:14 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:00:42 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:06 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-230-165.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 18:07:04 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:08:08 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:08:11 dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 18:08:57 gcv [n=gcv@ool-4572f4ca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:20 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 18:11:30 Right, I'm gone for the day. Back tomorrow, I expect. 18:11:32 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-255-137-188.cncdnh.east.verizon.net] has quit ["bye all"] 18:12:55 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:26 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:16:52 ebzzry_ [n=rmm@124.217.73.6] has joined #lisp 18:17:03 robyonrails [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:17:13 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:17:47 benny99 [n=benny@p5486CF4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:53 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:16 is "application server" anything but a webserver with a database backend? and when did Java take over the apache foundation? 18:19:12 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:20:00 allegroserve + webactions (or hunchentoot + weblocks || ucw or whatever) can fit in here, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_application_servers 18:21:36 yeah, i would say so. 18:21:50 oracle makes a big deal out of "application servers" too, of course. 18:22:02 hbock [n=hbock@96.238.4.35] has joined #lisp 18:22:07 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:22:48 -!- rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-58-34.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 18:25:49 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:26:21 i just can't make heads or tails from java-speak. the sheer amount of verbiage is hard to leverage! 18:27:04 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 18:27:17 gcv_ [n=gcv@ool-4572f4ca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:30 milanj [n=milan@93.86.112.176] has joined #lisp 18:29:10 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:02 fusss: In Javaspeak, an app server typically provides a "container" for running code. Basically a framework with some services you can call, like database connection pooling. 18:30:29 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:32:41 matley [n=matley@83.225.239.136] has joined #lisp 18:32:54 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has joined #lisp 18:33:53 -!- gcv_ [n=gcv@ool-4572f4ca.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 18:33:54 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:34:02 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:34:16 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #lisp 18:35:29 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 18:35:46 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.239.136] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35:58 matley [n=matley@83.225.239.136] has joined #lisp 18:36:00 -!- yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:36:14 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D3B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:44 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.176.161] has joined #lisp 18:36:44 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:36:50 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:36:57 simonb [n=simon@ellen.simonb.se] has joined #lisp 18:37:03 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:37:48 bhall [n=bhall@ext.hallgroup.org] has joined #lisp 18:37:56 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:57 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:18 -!- mrSpec [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:38:28 mrSpec [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 18:38:43 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 18:39:07 -!- srp_ [n=srp@122.172.22.2] has quit [] 18:39:24 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:45 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-230-165.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:42:46 -!- Hun [n=Hun@81.163.116.185] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:43:16 -!- gcv [n=gcv@ool-4572f4ca.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:43:27 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:43:40 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:44:27 shit. how much of a machine word does lisp reserve for a fixnum on a 32-bit architecture? 18:44:57 i want to store an IP address (32 bits) in a fixnum, but SBCL doesn't like it if it goes above #x1FFFFFFF 18:45:10 works fine on sbcl/x86_64, obviously 18:45:29 29 bits or something? 18:46:18 argh. so if i needed an unsigned 32 bit value, would I have to use bignums? 18:46:19 yeah, thereabouts at least, i think. why do you have to use a fixnum? 18:46:20 <_3b> (log most-positive-fixnum 2) bits ? 18:46:25 hbock: see (integer-length most-positive-fixnum) 18:46:32 ahhh, thanks. 18:46:33 <_3b> (actually 1+ that many 18:46:34 performance 18:47:07 what specific performance issues are you worried about? 18:47:08 using libpcap on a 1Gbps link 18:47:11 you have a heck of a lot of ips to deal with or why? 18:47:39 I'll try it without the fixnum declaration, there probably won't be a huge performance hit. 18:48:02 <_3b> you can use arrays specialized for (unsigned-byte 32) 18:48:04 let's put it this way, what kind of operations are you doing on these numbers? 18:48:07 <_3b> or declare variables for that type 18:48:28 _3b: excellent, that's what I'm looking for. 18:48:58 jsnell: nothing spectacular other than a lot of copy-seq and bit operations 18:49:13 erm, nevermind 18:50:20 bit operations will be as fast for declared u-b 32 values as for fixnums 18:50:24 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:50:37 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:50:49 that should work perfectly, thanks so much! 18:50:59 you are doing heavy network filtering/logging with lisp? 18:51:01 alpheus [n=user@vpn.cashnetusa.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:11 the thing that will be very slow would be boxing of those values, which would basically happen if you try to pass a u-b 32 over a non-inlined function call boundary (as parameter or return value) 18:51:17 did programmers ever try to unionize? 18:51:44 or storing them into generic places rather than ones specialized to hold only u-b 32 values 18:51:49 bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:41 hypno: yeah, inherited a project from my employer. it's essentially designed as a rewrite of IPAudit, but I'd like to take it beyond that 18:52:51 in that case, at 1gbps speeds, how do you deal with GC pauses? 18:52:58 cmucl might have a way to use non-descriptor (i.e. unboxed) values; http://common-lisp.net/project/cmucl/doc/cmu-user/compiler-hint.html#toc196 18:53:28 <_3b> weirdo: i think the more motivated programmers tend to startup-ize instead :) 18:53:44 happycodemonkey [n=happycod@c-98-223-43-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:54 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C3C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:53:59 fusss: same as what jsnell suggested with SBCL. 18:54:19 hypno: that's a good question. right now our collection scheme uses a static amount of memory 18:55:09 no need to worry about GC on that end, as the packet data is processed separately 18:55:16 do you have to? 1 Gbps isn't a lot of data. 18:55:28 blitz_ [n=julian@92.117.223.193] has joined #lisp 18:56:07 you can get away with a well managed pool 18:56:09 honestly, the current architecture of the application is pretty poor, I plan to rewrite it from scratch after we release the first version 18:56:17 i think it depends on what kind of real-time requirements you have. 18:56:51 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:57:11 enodran [n=brandon@207-180-130-218.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:19 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:57:32 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:57:34 the "new" architecture I have in mind is definitely more real-time - more or less keeping track of stateful connections on live capture instead of processing it later 18:57:46 hbock: is this a commercial project with closed source or oss? 18:57:51 it's OSS. 18:58:05 http://nautilus.oshean.org/wiki/Periscope 18:58:42 the current code is a bit of a mess. :( 18:58:57 Quadresce` [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:08 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 18:59:33 jsnell: so as long as I'm careful about where I store the boxed values, i.e., keeping proper type declarations, using u-b 32 should be fine? 18:59:57 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:00:15 hbock: and even if you miss some, as long as you don't lie, the worst case is that your program conses more short-lived garbage. 19:00:27 -!- Quadresce` is now known as Quadrescence 19:00:39 that's not terrible, I can live with that for now. 19:01:15 hbock, note that returning unboxed values, boxes them 19:01:36 okay stupid question - what exactly do you mean by boxed? 19:01:37 (correct me if i'm wrong) which may incur moar overhead than keeping them boxes at all times 19:02:00 hbock, allocated on heap, with 3-bit tags 19:02:00 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 19:02:04 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Client Quit] 19:02:06 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:02:11 if you're using IA-32 then unsigned-byte 32 is probably boxed 19:02:21 ahhh, okay. thought so. 19:02:23 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has joined #lisp 19:02:37 what's that 3-bit tag nonsense? 19:02:42 if you unbox stuff like 'octet or 'float, inline the inner functions 19:03:02 jsnell, you know, stuff that tells the type of the function 19:03:07 ugh 19:03:09 the type of the datum 19:03:17 well, that's not going to be 3 bits 19:04:05 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:04:06 on sbcl a boxed u-b 32 is going to be 8 bytes 19:04:09 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:04:13 interesting. so if I'm using an unboxed value inside a form, and I return it using (the (unsigned-byte 32) value), it will end up boxed anyway? 19:04:17 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:04:29 weirdo: probably incorrect. If you're doing arithmetic, than using the native representation internally should be useful. If you're not doing anything, declaring an input to be (unsigned-byte 32) won't randomly cause the compiler to unbox and rebox it. The only issue will be that you'll want to inline functions that are pretty much special-purpose (computationnally cheap) accessors. 19:05:00 pkhuong, thank you 19:05:24 so the compiler guesses whan unboxing isn't pessimal? 19:05:30 s/whan/when 19:05:37 "then, using the native representation", even 19:06:23 probably depends on whether you declare something like (speed 3) (safety 0) 19:06:33 weirdo: a type declaration is just that. The compiler attempts to choose the right representation for each value/variable depending on the range of values it can take and the operations performed on it. 19:06:53 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-213.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 19:07:31 too bad there's no sealing :/ then %fun-type could fill in missing return type declarations 19:08:00 weirdo: sb-c::*derive-function-types* 19:08:17 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.221] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:08:47 pkhuong, i'm speechless. thank you! 19:08:48 hbock: only for functions that can be called from anywhere (because the caller won't know how to handle the non-generic representation). 19:08:59 but note that the presence of that is insufficient to remove the boxing across full function call boundaries 19:09:43 wormphlegm [n=george@c-98-234-189-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:43 functions still won't return raw floats or raw machine words even if their types have been declared 19:10:20 still, it's a nice progress in type inference 19:10:24 except for local ones that aren't passed around. 19:10:33 now if only conses had their type inferenced :P 19:10:39 weirdo: it's doesn't respect the standard. 19:11:04 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:11:04 -!- benny99 [n=benny@p5486CF4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:11:16 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:14:13 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 19:16:43 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:17:58 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:18:11 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:20:02 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 19:21:26 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-213.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:24:30 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-203.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:24:59 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:25:12 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:27:25 Hun [n=Hun@81.163.100.143] has joined #lisp 19:28:25 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 19:28:46 hmm, clisp turns out no to be so dog slow after COMPILE 19:29:21 getting the readtable contents the hard (i.e. portable) way only takes 0.6 seconds 19:29:46 half of that on sbcl 19:30:22 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.6.222.170] has joined #lisp 19:31:18 why can't macrolet call something fletted ? (flet ((b () ())) (macrolet ((c () (b))) (c))) 19:32:00 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:32:12 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:33:18 forgot to quote 19:33:24 '(b) 19:33:58 macroexpansion takes place during compile time, when flet bindings don't exist yet 19:35:14 you can use a global macro with flets if you wish, you don't even have to declare it at toplevel 19:35:43 (flet ... (setf (symbol-macro 'foo) (lambda (form env) ...))) 19:35:44 :) 19:36:05 man, lisp is just crazy. 19:36:33 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:36:43 except it can't really be used in the same compilation unit 19:36:58 unless it's with eval-when etc... 19:37:27 is there a way to separate a file into multiple compilation units? 19:38:48 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:39:01 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:39:17 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:50 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@92.117.223.193] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:42:59 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:43:23 I want the macro to utilize the flet function, like (defun b () 'print) (macrolet ((c () (list (b) ''hi))) (c)) versus (flet ((b () 'print)) (macrolet ((c () (list (b) ''hi))) (c))) the latter wont work. 19:44:03 put the flet inside the macrolet 19:44:27 lhz: you can do (macrolet ((foo () (flet ...))), but otherwise it doesn't make sense to refer to bindings that are established at runtime from a macro. 19:44:33 (macrolet ((c () (flet ((b () 'print)) ... 19:45:24 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:45:36 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:46:00 ah (macrolet ((c () (flet ((b () 'print)) (list (b) ''hi)))) (c)) 19:46:33 hbock, pkhuong thanks.. weirdo sorry for not understanding you at the first take.. I now realize compile-time.. 19:52:14 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:52:27 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:52:47 This is a new one. SBCL blew up in (room). :-D 19:52:50 (GC invariant lost.) 19:53:18 not enough space to run gc? 19:53:51 buy more ram :P 19:53:54 I thought there was. SBCL allocated 1 GB and there was a total of 800 MB free between swap and real memory. 19:54:06 -!- froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:54:06 Er, had already allocated 1 GB, of which it was using 600 MB. 19:54:27 ouch 19:54:44 I don't really understand, since it had 1.2 GB to grow into. 19:55:02 -!- bobo__ [n=bobo@77.28.20.50] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:55:27 is it reproducible? 19:56:05 Too tangled up with Stefil and my own library, I think. 19:58:45 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:58:57 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:00:57 * Heap exhausted during allocation: 0 bytes available, 8 requested. 20:00:58 Good stuff. 20:01:25 This time (room) showed 280 MB, I ran (sb-ext:gc full t) and it went down to 250 MB, then I ran (room) again and it blew up before it could print anything. 20:01:51 Ah, no, it died while trying to print the breakdown. 20:05:09 benny` [n=benny@i577A19E1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:20 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:05:33 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:05:50 I have a 550 line macro which expands into a 3600 line STEFIL:DEFTEST form which expands into a 7800 line PROGN, and that seems to be the cause of the problem somehow. 20:06:27 ouch 20:06:47 Okay, it's not the macroexpansion (whew), it's what the expansion does. 20:07:34 blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has joined #lisp 20:09:52 Hmm. 20:10:17 *Aankhen``* wonders if (declare (dynamic-extent #'7800-line-function)) might have something to do with it. 20:11:12 -!- Hun [n=Hun@81.163.100.143] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:12:06 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:12:18 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:12:37 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 20:12:51 dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 20:16:49 It's fine the first time, but redefining the test makes the CPU thrash and makes things break. :-S 20:17:10 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:18:37 -!- benny` is now known as benny 20:18:50 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:19:03 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:19:17 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:20:56 minion: memo for kiuma: I'd like to have a user on claw/trac. Ticket creation is not open for everyone. 20:20:57 Remembered. I'll tell kiuma when he/she/it next speaks. 20:21:52 benny99 [n=bebenny@p5486CF4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:01 madnificent: http://trac.common-lisp.net/claw ? 20:23:16 Hun [n=Hun@Hunlappy2.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has joined #lisp 20:25:10 -!- Mazingaro [n=tetsuja@host74-228-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:25:33 fe[nl]ix: yes 20:25:36 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:57 madnificent: you need an account on common-lisp.net for that 20:26:21 fe[nl]ix: oh okay, let me see for that 20:26:41 -!- alek_b_ is now known as alek_b 20:28:31 josemanuel [n=josemanu@238.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:29:11 fe[nl]ix: any idea where I can make a user on that site? 20:29:38 madnificent: send your request to rt@common-lisp.net - include your public pgp key and your real name. 20:29:43 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:50 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 20:30:11 froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:01 looks like I'm finally setting up PGP 20:32:34 minion: memo for kiuma: never mind, got helped in #lisp for it :) 20:32:35 Remembered. I'll tell kiuma when he/she/it next speaks. 20:35:16 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:35:34 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@pool-72-68-45-195.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 20:35:47 is it hard to get a c-l.net account? 20:35:58 very hard 20:36:08 you need to pass a common lisp test and a scheme exam. 20:36:20 :-) 20:36:47 and also go trough 12 labours harder than Hercule's 20:36:52 weirdo: or... you can send 50EUR to luis at r42 dot eu via paypal. 20:37:26 err, Hercules's 20:37:50 luis, seriously? 20:37:55 50eu is whole lotsa' money 20:39:02 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:16 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:39:26 fe[nl]ix: did you forget about that cffi-grovel patch? 20:39:31 blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has joined #lisp 20:39:35 weirdo: seriously, if you can illustrate why you need a c-l.net account, you can get one using the procedure described above. 20:40:04 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:11 blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has joined #lisp 20:40:31 ok :) 20:40:47 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 20:41:00 kpreid [n=kpreid@pool-72-68-45-195.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:40 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-101-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:23 luis: I must have because I have no idea what patch you're talking about :D 20:42:37 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:42:58 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:08 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 20:44:14 anyone tried polish notation for math? 20:44:29 weirdo: Anyone here who has done math in Lisp. 20:44:48 i wonder if stuff like: 20:45:01 + 1 20:45:01 * 2 3 20:45:04 would look nice 20:45:14 and i b0rked the indentation, oh well 20:45:40 weirdo, (+ 1 (* 2 3)) not good enough for ye? 20:45:45 forth has it as well 20:45:48 luis: "Using preprocessor symbol as argument to :count in cstruct" ? 20:45:58 fe[nl]ix: that's the one 20:46:05 madnificent, usually parens aren't written on paper 20:46:22 though writing them isn't as hard, i.e. first write the innermost ones, etc 20:46:54 weirdo: was that supposed to be polish notation? 20:47:03 luis, it was supposed to 20:47:27 ( x ( 10 x) ( x)) 20:47:41 weirdo: it looked like prefix notation to me. 20:47:42 oops, swap 10 and x 20:47:43 nice unicode :) 20:47:49 luis, what's the difference? 20:47:52 polish notation is prefix. 20:47:56 PN = prefix, RPN = postifx 20:48:09 HP calculators are RPN, Lisp is PN. 20:48:17 (Forth is also RPN.) 20:48:21 see, we poles invented lotsa' stuff, including stealing cars and getting drunk 20:48:35 weirdo: oh, my bad. 20:48:49 Don't forget cavalry charges against tanks. 20:48:58 ha! that too 20:49:06 "Husaria" or something 20:49:09 rpn = reverse polish notation... forgot about that 20:49:42 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:50:32 hmm maybe a RPN lisp without parens would make sens 20:50:33 e 20:50:45 how about a Reverse Russian Notation, btw? :-) 20:51:52 moghar` [n=user@156.185.jawnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:51:59 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 20:52:05 tcr, left you a memo 20:52:17 weirdo: have you tried Facto? 20:52:22 *Factor 20:52:32 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:52:38 -!- moghar` is now known as moghar 20:53:19 looks nice 20:53:23 might write it in lisp 20:53:24 :-) 20:53:34 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.166.64] has quit ["A KGB keyboard has no escape key."] 20:55:47 nice feature i didn't spot for long: types like (cons (eql foo) (cons t null)) 20:56:35 weirdo: Reverse Russian Notation would use cyrillic. 20:56:41 -!- benny99 [n=bebenny@p5486CF4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:57:00 manuel_ [n=manuel@81.163.111.41] has joined #lisp 20:57:08 (+   (  )) 20:57:27 hi 20:57:32 Hi 20:58:23   ! 20:58:42 Reverse Chinese Notation would be f-ed up Ada. 20:58:44    ! 20:59:38 it's not that hard to write with transliteration. worse with reading 21:00:03 -!- tarbo__ is now known as tarbo 21:01:07 but RRN would be cool: "in Soviet Russia, program writes YOU!" 21:01:08 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:02:06 I never understood that joke. 21:02:57 you know, in 1984 they had screens that could watch you etc 21:03:04 weirdo: first my thought is that you're Polish. 21:03:17 and the prevailing western opinion is that USSR was a totalitarian state 21:03:20 "" isn't Russian. 21:03:34 They had screens that could watch you back in '84!? 21:03:42 ASau, what's the term for Mother Russia? :-) 21:04:05 schme, the book by orwell 21:04:13 hmm.. 21:04:16 never heard of it. 21:04:22 Maybe I will look it up. 21:04:42 weirdo: "" 21:04:42 Thanks for explaining it though :) 21:04:46 go wikipedia! they've got articles about everything, except possibly an eyeball licking fetish 21:04:51 ASau, thank you 21:05:29   21:06:16 always having problems with "sh" looking like "shch" and "c" looking like ""... 21:06:17 weirdo: "" is correct spelling. "" has quite different connotations. 21:06:46 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@81.163.111.41] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:07:19 and don't get me wrong, i don't share much of the polish anti-russian sentiment 21:07:40 I don't care much. 21:12:53 Is there a downloadable version of the SBCL manual in HTML? 21:13:01 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@238.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 21:13:02 I don't want to compile it just for a manual. 21:13:39 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:13:40 Also, the binary distros should include a copy of the manual, rather than just the man page. 21:13:52 uh, i could send you the manual if you told me how to compile the manual 21:14:16 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:50 No thanks, I'll compile it anyway. 21:15:11 But to make the docs you do "sh sbcl-1.0.23/doc/make-doc.sh". 21:15:26 The Makefile depends on the tests for various components having been passed. 21:15:35 Apparently it wants to extract docstrings. 21:15:48 Quadresce` [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:57 This is lame if you're using the binary distro. 21:15:59 -!- Hun [n=Hun@Hunlappy2.visitor.congress.ccc.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:16:34 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:16:46 -!- Quadresce` is now known as Quadrescence 21:16:51 it wants to run tests first 21:17:04 minion: you got message for me? 21:17:04 tcr: what's up? 21:17:04 tcr, memo from weirdo: here's yer CDR: http://paste.lisp.org/display/72732 21:18:19 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:18:32 mib_ydt9vrgm [i=62e4bd33@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6244a04d291965e4] has joined #lisp 21:19:53 Just out of curiousity: What is VOP in the sbcl sources? 21:20:00 as in DEFINE-VOP ? 21:20:04 virtual operation 21:20:11 aha :) 21:21:41 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:22:18 Is there a reason that SLIME can't do WHO-CALLS in SBCL? 21:22:26 Or am I just missing some configuration option? 21:22:42 Sorry, I meant CALLS-WHO 21:24:03 saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:16 V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fecade00-157.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:28:23 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:28:37 -!- _8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:47 _8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:29:06 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 21:30:29 lispm [n=joswig@e177150190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:31:06 fooquux, maybe the definition didn't get saved 21:31:12 like, using slime-eval-... 21:31:59 -!- brianj_otterZZZ is now known as brianj_otter 21:33:26 -!- happycodemonkey [n=happycod@c-98-223-43-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Changing server"] 21:35:06 -!- davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:35:09 matley- [n=matley@83.224.246.51] has joined #lisp 21:35:38 Tyek [i=Tyek@cm-84.211.23.83.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 21:39:55 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 21:40:02 -!- nicolas [n=nicolas@aqu33-5-82-245-96-5.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:40:26 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.239.136] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:41:15 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:41:19 fooquux, apparently polacks didn't charge their Husaria against tanks, the statement being Nazi propaganda 21:42:16 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-72-65-146-163.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:33 luis: done 21:43:55 When you are hacking on a system, do you usually create a temporary package to test from within? 21:44:34 *drewc* just won his first battle with GET-SETF-EXPANDER. 21:46:16 fe[nl]ix: cool, thanks. 21:47:17 drewc: that's a tough. cffi/src/types.lisp has a couple of nasty ones. 21:47:33 s/a // 21:49:14 luis: it was a pretty easy battle.. the arnesi/cc SETQ interpreter did not properly expand symbol macros. 21:49:30 Hun [n=Hun@81.163.100.143] has joined #lisp 21:53:05 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 21:54:06 -!- Tyek [i=Tyek@cm-84.211.23.83.getinternet.no] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:19 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-61-21.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:56:22 -!- froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:07 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:46 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 22:02:54 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BE38.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:45 drewc: Sounds like fun, we had similar battles with abcl not long enough ago :) 22:04:56 V-ille: indeed, load of fun. setf exoands to setq expands to setf :) 22:05:05 expands 22:06:15 Our case was IIRC merely a matter of passing the proper environment around. 22:08:03 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:09 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.112.176] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:11:55 kiuma [i=51d06a4b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-888a074b191924ae] has joined #lisp 22:12:11 hello 22:12:11 kiuma, memo from madnificent: I'd like to have a user on claw/trac. Ticket creation is not open for everyone. 22:12:11 kiuma, memo from madnificent: never mind, got helped in #lisp for it :) 22:12:29 -!- Hun [n=Hun@81.163.100.143] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:14:08 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:14:47 holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:54 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:18:16 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:18:49 hello kiuma 22:20:39 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:28 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:24:03 madnificent: hello 22:24:11 madnificent: any problem ? 22:25:05 madnificent: I've not much experience with trac. Do you know how to add user for ticket submisison in trac.common-lisp.net ? 22:25:07 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:25:19 is there any webadmin panel ? 22:25:43 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has left #lisp 22:26:15 kiuma: when creating a server (say on path /dev) and then browsing to an inexistant resource, (say thetest), you get a wrong url. It claims to be for the url /dev/est in this case 22:26:18 kiuma: the logo was cool 22:26:31 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-61-21.netcologne.de] has quit [] 22:26:49 kiuma: there is an admin button at the top, but perhaps I'll have that permission automatically when I get my username from c-l.net 22:27:27 -!- netaust1n_ [n=austinsm@adsl-70-130-228-169.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit [] 22:27:49 madnificent: I've no admin button, and just seen that you have to create an accont on cl.net 22:28:09 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:28:31 madnificent: .mmmm let me check 22:31:33 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:35:04 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-206-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:38:09 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-72-65-146-163.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:38:40 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@70.Red-83-36-89.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 22:38:53 froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:06 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.54] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:43:57 robyonrails [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:44:49 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 22:45:55 robyonrails [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:49:03 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-38-22.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:49:09 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 22:49:54 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has left #lisp 22:51:39 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4319.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:53:59 Hun [n=Hun@81.163.100.143] has joined #lisp 22:56:39 mulligan` [n=user@e178061030.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:56:51 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:44 disumu [n=disumu@p57A27F20.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:00 is there anybody here awake ? I need some help with asdf 23:04:27 t 23:06:10 kiuma: what's the matter ? 23:06:14 weirdo: I try to load this asd file http://paste.lisp.org/display/72750, but I have the following error back: component SRC not found, required by # 23:06:20 hello fe[nl]ix 23:06:34 how are you 23:06:40 ? 23:08:53 kiuma: your components module does not depend on your src module 23:09:05 kiuma: you can't have children depending on uncle components 23:09:07 approximately 23:09:20 that's a good way to put it. 23:09:32 make components :depends-on (src) and pages :depends-on (src components) 23:10:01 or use :serial t in this instance. 23:10:03 :serial t if things become too hairy 23:10:33 I have a macro where the body is spliced into a quoted list by the expansion, to be processed later. Is there a way to force some of the body forms to be evaluated at macro expansion time? 23:10:58 O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 23:11:11 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:42 (the body is an AST that will get transformed later, but I want to be able to invoke helper functions that return bits of AST, to factor out common stuff between calls to the macro) 23:11:52 kiuma: also. by the look of things, you could nest your component definitions and avoid the #. stuff. 23:12:00 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178011196.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:12:02 *module definitions 23:12:20 drewc: oh can I? let me try 23:13:39 so far my only thought is to have a special 'apply' form in the AST, and do the invocation/splicing in the macro expansion. Just wondering if there's a way to get that without writing any code ;) 23:13:45 ..mmm can someone annotate my paste I can't figure out how to do 23:14:55 danderson: Doesn't backquote+comma do what you ask? 23:17:22 V-ille: in this case, the body of my macro gets inserted into a quoted list, so it'll never be evaluated. That's my problem. 23:18:09 I need a way to selectively evaluate forms in the body, before the macro gets expanded 23:18:21 so that when the expansion happens, the body forms are already in their "final" form. 23:20:47 -!- froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:22:56 -!- Hun [n=Hun@81.163.100.143] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:23:03 netaust1n [n=austinsm@174-159-211-249.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:08 np. solved thanks anyway 23:24:05 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:26:27 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:27:41 kiuma: how ? 23:28:18 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:15 danderson: I'm not sure if I get the problem correctly, but I'd imagine building the list first with backquote+comma and then returning it quoted might do the trick.. 23:30:40 froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:05 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-206-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:26 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 23:31:27 Good morning. 23:32:02 hi beach 23:32:33 fe[nl]ix: 23:33:51 like: http://paste.lisp.org/display/72750#1 23:34:00 hi beach 23:34:25 fe[nl]ix: do you ever sleep ? :P 23:34:39 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.6.222.170] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:34:59 kiuma: only during the day 23:35:40 hehe: meanwhile if you want to update gentoo closure-html-2008-11-30 23:35:55 current one is outdated 23:36:56 is there a version more recent than 2008-11-30 ? 23:36:57 prxq [n=mommer@BAAdd06.baa.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 23:37:52 V-ille: if you're interested, take a look at git://natulte.net/cl68k 23:38:23 the relevant macro is `instruction`, see at the bottom of the file how it gets used. 23:38:45 hopefully seeing how the macro expands will help illutrate my problem 23:40:04 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 23:40:14 fe[nl]ix: let me check 23:40:53 fe[nl]ix: here http://common-lisp.net/project/closure/closure-html/download/ 23:40:53 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:41:19 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@pool-72-68-45-195.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:41:19 _8david put a wrong link 23:41:49 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:42:14 kiuma: http://repo.or.cz/w/gentoo-lisp-overlay.git?a=tree;f=dev-lisp/closure-html;hb=HEAD 23:42:39 pronik [n=pronik@g229160021.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:42:43 -!- pronik [n=pronik@g229160021.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 23:43:28 ah ok 23:43:34 Does anyone know how you could write something like document.getElementById('parah').innerHTML="" using Parenscript? (document.get-element-by-id "parah") does the first bit but then how can I do the .innerHTML="" part? 23:44:11 kzar: use slot-value 23:44:26 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BE38.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:45:45 kiuma: That seems to make something more like this: document.getElementById("parah")[innerHtml] = "" 23:45:53 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B75E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:05 kzar: (setf (slot-value (document.get-element-by-id "parah") 'inner-h-t-m-l) "") 23:46:55 -!- prxq [n=mommer@BAAdd06.baa.pppool.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:47:47 kiuma: Ahh I missed the ', that works great thanks 23:49:09 wow, editor-hints' code style is superb 23:49:44 notice the clever use of symbol-macrolet to avoid column restrictions on a long hyphenated name 23:52:33 danderson: What about something like (defmacro weird () (let* ((a 66) (b 77) (result `(foo ,a bar ,b))) `(quote ,result))) 23:53:08 That's what I meant by building the list first and then quoting it. That looks a bit evil, though, so caveat emptor. :) 23:53:55 I am officially very bad at backquotes. 23:54:36 time to go to sleep, cu 23:54:40 -!- kiuma [i=51d06a4b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-888a074b191924ae] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 23:54:43 ooh 23:54:50 that does look a bit evil, fascinating 23:54:58 -!- matley- [n=matley@83.224.246.51] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:55:11 V-ille: but that doesn't give me selective evaluation of forms though, the invocation would have to be ugly 23:55:44 I think I'm just going to go with a magic apply form that gets scanned for and executed at expansion time to produce the final AST 23:55:48 if that makes any sense... 23:56:26 Well, the evaluation looks selective to me, because only a and b are evaluated, foo and bar are not. 23:57:41 -!- netaust1n [n=austinsm@174-159-211-249.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:57:45 but how would you apply that escaping in the invocation? 23:57:57 as you can see, the macro has a ,@body to splice in all the forms 23:58:22 Oh yes, you'd have to process the body a bit smarter, if only parts of the body need to be evaluated. 23:59:00 okay. 23:59:39 the reason I want partial evaluation is that for most invocations, straight AST would be fine, so no evaluation required. But for a few instructions, AST-generating helpers would be very nice to have. 23:59:55 anyway, thanks for taking a look and for your suggestions, I'll get back to hacking :)