00:00:48 beach: good morning 00:03:05 -!- kenyon [n=kenyon_@xdsl-81-173-187-121.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:03:52 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 00:04:22 I want something like a hash table, but where I can gethash for either the key or the value. 00:04:31 It'd be nice if there was system-wise TRY-RECOMPILING restart in ASDF:LOAD-OP.. 00:04:37 Is there a ready-made solution or do I have to roll my own? 00:05:08 -!- mbac [i=[WI+rNGW@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:05:11 WWW-Veezy-NET [n=Rettorm@85.102.71.49] has joined #lisp 00:05:14 -!- WWW-Veezy-NET [n=Rettorm@85.102.71.49] has left #lisp 00:05:15 It seems wasteful to MAPHASH over a hash table to find the key I want. 00:05:17 fooquux: use two hash tables. 00:05:23 deepfire: if you use the slime-asdf contrib, you can use ,force-compile-system or ,force-load-system at the slime-repl 00:05:49 tcr, nice! 00:05:57 Is that the best solution? It's kinda wasteful of memory. 00:05:57 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:36 fooquux, is that a real problem? 00:06:44 Not really. 00:07:10 I was just hoping for some mythical optimal solution. 00:07:23 pkhuong: are you here? 00:07:30 Adamant [n=Adamant@71-83-15-2.static.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:15 -!- crod [n=cmell@cad439-221.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:10:19 froog2 [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:43 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 00:10:49 Hello all. 00:11:52 How do you do? 00:12:10 Quite well today, thanks. 00:14:00 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:36 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:14:48 -!- Malatesa [n=Malatesa@c-67-182-109-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:16:38 hello nyef 00:19:01 You know what's annoying? When you're out somewhere, and you're writing, and your pen runs out of ink, and you realize that you left your ink bottle at home so you can't reload it. :-/ 00:23:33 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:23:38 -!- froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:24:43 crod [n=cmell@cb8a16-134.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:27:10 Malatesa [n=Malatesa@c-67-182-109-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:25 tcr: real 4m44.791s user 4m5.944s sys 0m31.997s 00:28:46 dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-051-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:36 -!- beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has left #lisp 00:30:02 Can I DECLARE (IGNORE foo) and still assign something to foo? 00:30:16 I won't ever access its value. 00:31:07 Or should I use IGNORABLE instead? 00:31:10 fooquux: you should get a warning 00:31:15 fooquux: if you set it 00:31:21 Sure you can. It'll be wrong, and any good compiler will bitch at you, but you can do it. 00:31:31 Use IGNORABLE, if you must. 00:31:47 Alternately, depending on what you're doing, there are other tricks available. 00:32:30 Well, I have a CFFI function that returns multiple values, and I only care about one. 00:32:32 -!- dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-005-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:32:40 enodran: Now get http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/tcr.git?a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/bug-310062 -- compile that, and report the timing of this one, please. 00:32:47 I'm trying to tell the compiler to ignore the other one. 00:32:58 tcr: haha, you only said one =p sure thing, getting it now 00:33:22 clhs nth-value 00:33:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_nth_va.htm 00:33:31 Ah, thanks. 00:34:05 Alternately, doesn't m-v-b or m-v-s do something clever with NIL as a variable name? 00:34:30 And if it's the primary value you want, you don't even need these games. 00:34:42 No, it's the second one. 00:34:57 Then nth-value should do. 00:35:04 Thanks a bunch. 00:35:14 notice that it's (nth-value 1 expr) for the second value 00:35:25 Yeah, weird. 00:35:30 tcr: i'm not a native git user, can one `git clone http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/tcr.git?a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/bug-310062` ? 00:35:31 Usually Lisp is 1-based. 00:35:52 enodran: deepfire told me git remote add repo.or.cz-tcr git://repo.or.cz/sbcl/tcr.git; git fetch repo.or.cz-tcr; git checkout repo.or.cz-tcr/bug-310062 00:36:24 nyef: you're not a ir1 hacker, are you? 00:36:41 tcr: I'm afraid not. IR1 usually confuses me, why? 00:37:08 nyef: see my latest posting, I'm getting some constant prop error 00:37:34 endoran, you have to do 'git reset --hard repo.or.cz-tcr/bug-310062' instead of the 'git checkout repo.or.cz-tcr/bug-310062', there's something botched about the sbcl repo 00:38:17 enodran, the two previous steps are as per tcr 00:38:40 Ugh. sourceforge seems worse than usual. 00:40:28 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 00:40:44 tcr: Why is the minimum bound larger than the maximum bound? 00:41:20 Well, that's the question. :) 00:42:11 This is why I hate monkeying with type propagation... And related to why I hate CROSS-FLOAT-INFINITY-KLUDGE. 00:49:11 tcr: real 4m44.949s user 4m8.047s sys 0m31.517s 00:50:41 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:52:01 that's calming 00:52:04 thank you 00:53:27 *nyef* wonders how Lisp could usually be 1-based when he can't think of anything offhand in lisp which isn't 0-based for indexes. 00:54:01 nyef: (first instead of (zeroth ? 00:54:29 That's hardly an index, though. 00:54:46 I know, I'm reaching... 00:54:53 If you were able to say that about nth or elt, I'd accept it, but not first. 01:02:49 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:54 Anyone know how to refer to a zero arg C function using CFFI? 01:05:21 tcr: my pleasure 01:06:29 fooquux: (defcfun ) 01:06:39 Yeah, I just figured that out. 01:06:51 It's not in the description of DEFCFUN, which is confusing. 01:09:10 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:12:10 -!- enodran [n=enodran@208-78-98-174.slicehost.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:13:08 enodran [n=enodran@208-78-98-174.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:12 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16AF32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:15:09 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:15:50 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B62D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:52 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@125-238-247-3.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit [] 01:19:48 fooquux: what do you mean it's not in the description? 01:20:37 fooquux: arguments ::= { (arg-name arg-type) }* 01:20:48 * means 0 or more, right? 01:21:31 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:21:53 I meant there were no examples. 01:22:05 What, I'm supposed to read the documentation or something? :-P 01:22:12 Ah, ok. I guess we could add an example. 01:22:23 Bah. Examples aren't normative anyway. 01:22:27 fooquux: got a suggestion? 01:23:17 does the stdlib have any argless functions? 01:24:23 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.54] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:25:04 or posix, I guess. getpid() would be a good example, except for the pid_t return type. 01:27:33 Yeah, I was surprised that sb-posix didn't have getpid(2). 01:28:07 probably because there's sb-unix:unix-getpid already? 01:28:11 How about the function for getting at errno on threaded systems? 01:28:16 Really? Didn't see one. 01:28:33 -!- KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:28:37 luis: rand() 01:29:04 locklace: nice! 01:29:29 awful, but there you are 01:29:39 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 01:31:18 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:31:48 getchar() is another one 01:32:53 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:51 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host151-218-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 01:35:10 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:39:46 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:37 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:42 Yay. One bloody step closer to figuring out the syscall thing, which in turn is one step closer to figuring out the ptrace thing. 01:45:29 Turns out that SBCL only searches shared objects that it's explicitly been told about when it goes hunting for foreign symbols. 01:45:56 Whereas if it had taken the lazy way out and just used RTLD_DEFAULT, I'd have gotten it sorted the first time I tried. 01:47:53 fooquux: does that work better? http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/defcfun.html 01:48:20 md22 [n=md22@209.59.101.179] has joined #lisp 01:50:41 At least dlopen does the sane thing when passed the name of an already loaded library. 02:02:49 -!- md22 [n=md22@209.59.101.179] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:03:07 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 02:03:21 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B62D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:04:07 -!- froog2 [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:09:49 froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 02:11:12 -!- Malatesa [n=Malatesa@c-67-182-109-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:15:48 md22 [n=md22@76.76.161.129] has joined #lisp 02:16:19 sunwukong [n=salvi@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 02:20:17 G'night all. 02:20:20 *nyef* heads bedward. 02:20:22 night nyef 02:20:28 merry xmas! 02:21:24 -!- aszarsha [n=Aszarsha@69.171.146.51] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:23:30 -!- tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@unaffiliated/tc-rucho] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:24:04 tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@190.191.162.100] has joined #lisp 02:25:38 Malatesa [n=Malatesa@c-67-182-109-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:45 beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has joined #lisp 02:25:47 haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has joined #lisp 02:25:49 Good morning. 02:25:53 -!- haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:26:43 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:10 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:34:52 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E66D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:37:13 -!- enodran [n=enodran@208-78-98-174.slicehost.net] has quit ["leaving"] 02:38:05 -!- hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 02:41:11 enodran [n=brandon@ip70-181-14-103.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:01 -!- elurin [n=user@88.254.105.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:54:12 elurin [n=user@88.254.105.102] has joined #lisp 02:55:54 QinGW [n=user@220.231.9.236] has joined #lisp 02:55:58 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:57:36 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 03:03:38 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 03:05:25 hey beach 03:05:36 -!- tcr [n=tcr@p4FD3E043.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:05:58 hey slyrus, what's up? 03:06:12 oh, not much. playing with xmas toys. and you? 03:06:27 preparing my class that starts in a week 03:06:33 in HCM 03:06:43 i'm looking forward to some mcclim hacking discussions when you return to bx 03:07:07 oh, and, with fare's help, I figured out why my web server keeps dying 03:07:15 I might have time before that. My class is pretty much prepared since last year, so I just have to adjust a few things. 03:07:32 making decent progress on my chemistry drawing application 03:07:40 nice! 03:08:11 turns out the layout is rather tricky, but I've got most of what I need at this point, although I'll probably go through yet another code cleanup before I'm happy with it 03:08:17 I think it would be nice if we could fix some of the quirks of McCLIM so that it would be easier for people like you to use. 03:08:28 that would be great! 03:10:46 it would be fun to take some of the things I did in a previous life for visualizing biological (genomes, genes, proteins, sequences, etc...) data (in Java back then) and rig something up in mcclim 03:11:18 Oh, yeah, that would be fantastic. 03:11:19 it's a great test case for exercising scrollable/zoomable views of large data sets that lend themselves well to visualization 03:11:50 So we come back to the absolute necessity of making output recording better and faster. 03:11:52 and i've got the infrastructure in cl-bio and cl-bio-das for loading the data from various public sources out on the web 03:12:06 ah, yes, the whole output recording thing. I'm not sold :) 03:12:49 that requires a different way of looking at things than what I'm used to. not that it's wrong, but that I haven't wrapped my head around it (and it may still end up being wrong for what I want to do here). 03:13:32 Do you mean output recording or incremental redisplay? 03:14:02 output recording, aside from a few quirks and design flaws, and being a bit lower level than you actually want in places, makes perfect sense 03:14:19 key features for this to work are efficient data structures for computing what's in view, good hooks to the UI elements (scrollers, dials, etc...), and a nice way to do "semantic zooming" where what gets drawn varies based on the transform/scale/etc... 03:14:20 That's my opinion too. 03:14:31 [i.e. what hefner said] 03:15:21 how does output recording work when you have things like dynamic features that are changing in response to other UI elements, e.g. a set of graphical features whose height/color/size/etc.. change as one modifies various UI elements? 03:15:31 on the other hand, it doesn't address the interesting bits of what slyrus just mentioned 03:15:44 indeed 03:16:13 right, so the question is "can you plug those bits in to output recording and make it work?" or does one need to start from scratch and come up with a different protocol? 03:16:13 slyrus: output recording would not be the mechanism to use for that problem. 03:16:19 right 03:16:47 so, output recording is all well and good for certain tasks, but I don't think it really buys me much here 03:16:58 That's possible 03:17:23 nevertheless, one can imagine mixing and matching things where the traditional clim approach combines with these dynamic views and makes a really nice "workbench" for analysis and exploration 03:17:31 You still need it for scrolling and replaying as a result of exposure. 03:17:40 on the hand, you can ask what extensions you'd need on top of output recording to do something like this, or what a new interface would look like 03:18:23 on the other, you can ask how hard it would be to ignore output recording and build on the lower level functions without losing integration with the rest of clim (and clim fails mightily here, as it doesn't really specify how to connect them together) 03:20:22 beach: so, as you can see, there's lots of fun stuff to discuss in mcclim if you're up for it :) 03:20:25 not that it can't be done, because climacs does it (for presentations in the editor buffer) 03:21:33 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:01 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:23:46 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:24:14 slyrus: I agree, yes. 03:25:31 hefner: We should feel free to add such thing to the specification if we can come up with some decent protocols. 03:30:06 it's not clear to me how to proceed with things like output recording, where fixing things means losing backward compatibility (or at least means changing the interface enough that it has to be separate from the clim 2 one) 03:30:43 I am not sure that's true. 03:31:36 it's a vague statement 03:31:43 The spec is vague enough that I think it allows for deferring the effect of moving output records to the end of the command loop. 03:32:36 That, plus filtering out output records that aren't visible should give us something that is quite fast. 03:33:38 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 03:34:15 On the other hand, we could add a new protocol, say parent-relative output record and let existing applications use the old protocol, and let new ones have a choice. 03:35:23 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279441402.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 03:35:26 Not generating output records at all would be faster still. I've toyed with an interface based on queries driven by repaint and UI interaction, an idea which might fit applications like slyrus describes, but I've only tried a minimal toy implementation, and get hung up trying to make it too general. 03:35:33 My take would be to try to fix as much as possible within the spec, and only when we exhausted those possibilities, consider adding new stuff. 03:36:12 parent-relative output records are unequivocally the right thing, but implementing it in mcclim is a job for someone else 03:36:23 Generating an output record that is not visible would be cheap I imagine. 03:37:03 hefner: yes, I think that's a change that would greatly help what I have in mind 03:37:29 beach: having no attachment to the spec. my approach would be to cherry pick the good stuff and fix the rest to match my needs :) 03:37:37 depends how many there are. I always come back to the example of there being a huge number of objects, either at different zoom levels, editing 1 GB file, etc 03:38:03 in that situation, the approach of "printing" output records just can't work. 03:38:15 exactly. imagine doing this on a 200 MB (megabase) chromosome with millions of annotations. 03:38:43 -!- bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:38:45 dynamically loading/unloading detail as needed. think google earth for the genome, in a sense. except that the data is 1.5D instead of 2.5D 03:38:54 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.54] has joined #lisp 03:38:57 and it's similar to my point about graph protocols, that I ought to be able to bolt the protocol to my existing objects 03:39:49 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.54] has quit [Client Quit] 03:40:02 maybe some clever hacker knows how to design a sufficiently powerful clossy query protocol (whatever that means) 03:40:51 anyway, these are clim 4 thoughts =p 03:41:20 clim4! clim4! 03:44:12 *hefner* goes back to screwing with games, before he gets himself too excited 03:45:44 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:47:50 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:50:26 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:55:35 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-222-144-34.man.east.verizon.net] has quit ["System is too bloody noisy to be in a room with sleepy people."] 03:57:57 -!- froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:58:34 I'm interested in a Smalltalk-like reflection capability in Common Lisp. How do I got about querying the system for package names, variable and constant names, functions, object, methods, etc? 03:58:52 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 03:59:27 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:08 <_3b> list-all-packages , find-all-symbols / do-symbols / do-external-symbols / do-all-symbols / loop , boundp / fboundp / etc 04:01:21 Woo!! Rock on! Thank you! :D 04:01:22 <_3b> inspect, apropos, describe 04:01:47 <_3b> packages and symbols chapters in general in the clhs 04:02:35 Thanks! I'll check that out. 04:03:20 <_3b> probably objects, structures, types and classes chapters too 04:16:22 I'm cool, right? http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6518/img0099nu3.jpg 04:22:34 You forgot to cross your 't' in 'diagrammatically.' :P 04:22:57 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 04:23:25 I thought it read diagamammalically 04:23:39 hmm. 04:24:29 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:57 Google sure has gotten retarded lately. I searched for "diagmammalically" and it suggested an equally resultless spelling. 04:26:15 gigo 04:26:36 srp [n=srp@122.167.105.178] has joined #lisp 04:26:59 holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:46 use wikia search instead, at least you'll be able to fix bad results like that 04:29:28 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:29:31 -!- enodran is now known as enodran|away 04:30:54 int80_h [n=michael@h-68-166-221-28.snvacaid.covad.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:27 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 04:35:25 jso: I know 04:35:31 The word was pointless too. 04:35:35 I forgot why I wrote it. 04:36:49 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:40:43 -!- davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:40:46 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 04:42:43 int80_h pasted "problem with higher order function exercise" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72662 04:43:23 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:44:01 (car (last ...)) ? 04:44:17 -!- elurin [n=user@88.254.105.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:44:56 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:10 ah! 04:46:38 (CAR (LAST L) X) 04:46:38 ; 04:46:38 ; caught STYLE-WARNING: 04:46:39 ; The function was called with two arguments, but wants exactly on 04:46:48 sorry, that should have gone to the web page 04:47:17 int80_h annotated #72662 with "errors, continued" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72662#1 04:47:22 (funcall (CAR (LAST L)) x) 04:47:43 (apply-func-list (butlast L) (funcall (car (last L) X))))) 04:47:51 that yields the error I got 04:47:54 int80_h: you would be better off recursing on (cdr l) instead. 04:48:25 hmm, I have to build that list 04:48:32 ? 04:48:47 oh I see, hold on 04:49:06 cdr? I have to build a list in reverse order 04:49:33 not necessarily 04:49:35 int80_h: if the list of functions is empty, then return the value. If not, recurse on (cdr l) and apply (car l) to the result. 04:49:35 if I used cdr would that not build a list in sequential order? 04:51:56 int80_h: doing it that way avoids having to copy the list (except the last element) each time. 04:53:05 int80_h: if you want, i can post that variant 04:53:51 stassats`: hold on a sec. This might be homework. 04:54:28 beach: that's why i am asking 04:55:15 int80_h: oh, and while you are at it, please fix your indentation. 04:56:39 the indentation is the way emacs/slime made it 04:56:44 what's wrong with it? 04:57:20 I don't believe that. The body of the defun should be indented 2 positions, and the `else' branch should be aligned with the `then' branch in CL. 04:57:25 stassats: please post the variant. I'll try it myself and refer to it if I mess it up 04:58:02 you don't want to figure it on yourself? 04:58:12 beach: hold on, I will try it again. I was experiencing indentation problems when using a text file buffer, but I was convinced the sbcl buffer indented fine 04:58:34 stassats: yes I do. I'll not look at it immediatley 04:59:39 i can paste it later :) 04:59:57 okay I'm investigating my indentation problem 05:00:12 what book are you using for learning lisp? 05:00:46 LISP 3rd editon 05:00:59 winston, I believe 05:02:11 don't know about that book, but i like practical common lisp 05:02:31 That one is one order 05:02:51 I'm using it for reference, and doing an exercise from a web site tutorial 05:03:37 my indentation is fine. For whatever reason it got fubar'd when I did a cut/paste 05:04:00 But I'll re-do it from now on if I have to. 05:04:11 okay now I'll try and solve this puzzle 05:07:19 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.244.117] has joined #lisp 05:14:59 okay so far so good. compiles without trouble 05:15:56 stassats: I get an error. I'm posting 05:16:13 -!- Malatesa [n=Malatesa@c-67-182-109-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:17:41 int80_h annotated #72662 with "problems continue" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72662#2 05:18:40 <_3b> (list #'rest) ? 05:19:27 <_3b> or '(rest) 05:20:20 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:34 kpreid [n=kpreid@72-255-51-70.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:34 int80_h: your method will also do the applications in the wrong order. 05:22:00 int80_h: apply (car l) to the result of the recursion on the (cdr l) instead. 05:22:09 beach: you mean the old way I was trying? Or this recent method? The recent method isn't mine. 05:22:18 okay, I'll try that 05:22:49 int80_h: this latest solution of yours will apply the functions in the wrong order. 05:23:09 O_4 [n=souchan@125-238-247-3.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 05:24:06 hmmm, I thought I was doing as you suggested earlier. Okay I'll try again 05:26:39 <_3b> you got part of what was suggested, just need to rearrange a bit more to get the right answer 05:27:17 -!- breinded [n=nonamme@h-67-100-110-200.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:29:16 uh, it's getting late. I've made note and will pick this up tomorrow. 05:29:20 thanks for your help. 05:29:27 no problem. 05:29:44 I'll bet this will make more sense in the morning 05:34:14 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 05:35:09 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 05:36:32 gzip4 [n=xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 05:36:49 -!- beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:37:01 -!- enodran|away is now known as enodran 05:41:17 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:42:48 beach: any input on what with-scaling/translation/rotation should do with bitmap patterns in mcclim? it seems to me that they do the wrong thing, which is to say basically nothing (i.e. assume the identity transformation) 05:45:00 ah, missed him. 05:51:03 seelenquell__ [n=seelenqu@pD9E44CF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:48 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:55:05 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-31.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 05:56:23 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:56:31 -!- enodran is now known as enodran|away 05:57:30 Fare [n=Fare@c-71-232-6-92.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:03 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 06:00:56 binarin [n=user@gwn.alt1.ru] has joined #lisp 06:07:34 -!- seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E47BA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:14:16 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-203-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 06:15:33 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 06:16:53 Merry Christmas! 06:16:58 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 06:20:46 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-204-183-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:23:08 Bewilder [i=jabber-i@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has joined #lisp 06:23:08 -!- Bewilder [i=jabber-i@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has left #lisp 06:25:44 -!- futuresoon [n=futureso@cpe-68-175-79-193.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:26:02 futuresoon [n=futureso@cpe-68-175-65-164.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:26:06 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 06:26:26 -!- wormphlegm [n=george@c-98-234-189-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:26:30 oudeis: good morning! 06:27:22 morning :) 06:27:30 wormphlegm [n=george@c-98-234-189-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:07 the movers came to take works from the galler, had to wake up at 7:50. gosh 06:31:02 still working on the TODO for XCVB. Updated it quite a lot, now reading AITR-874 as suggested by Rainer Joswig. 06:31:22 -!- md22 [n=md22@76.76.161.129] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:31:59 XCVB hasn't grown past the stage of a working prototype yet, but at least now I'm starting to have a well-designed plan to develop it. 06:32:44 i am trying to hack lol/ucw in semi-conscious state 06:34:13 Fare: re: sb-ext:run-program, should there be a sigchld handler at all? 06:34:27 no, not at all 06:34:30 are you fixing it? 06:34:37 xcvb is in a dangerous state of grandiose vision. al-la tunes 06:34:39 no, just thinking about it. 06:34:50 signal should be ignored (or have a signalfd-emulation handler) 06:35:07 with no sigchld handler the :wait t case seems pretty straightforward. the :wait nil case less so 06:35:09 xcvb: except that xcvb is not vaporware, and the plan is actionable. 06:35:22 what's :wait nil ? 06:35:28 ok, ok :) 06:36:02 if it's :wait nil, then either the slot is already filled - you return it, or it's not, you leave it unfilled and return :running. 06:36:39 slyrus: if you're actively working on fixing it, I'll tell ebzzry to not bother fixing it. 06:36:48 no, no, please don't! :) 06:37:14 if you have partial code but don't want to finish it, send it to ebzzry and I. 06:37:33 no, I don't. I was just trying to understand what's going on, that's all. 06:37:40 ok 06:37:58 so I asked ebzzry to fix it next thing on his TODO list. 06:38:06 excellent! 06:40:20 dmiles_afk [i=dmiles@c-24-16-246-158.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:23 -!- enodran|away is now known as enodran 06:56:35 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:56:54 Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-298524.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 06:57:49 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a16-134.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:58:09 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 07:00:47 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 07:04:50 -!- Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-298524.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:06:23 Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-298524.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:07:23 -!- enodran is now known as enodran|away 07:07:48 crod [n=cmell@cb8a94-083.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:18:28 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:23 -!- rread [n=rread@c-76-102-10-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:22:00 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-0-153.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:22:15 Is there a way to make this code work? [/tmp/test1.lisp]: (let ((x "ok!")) (load "/tmp/test2.lisp")). [/tmp/test2.lisp]: (print x) 07:23:54 tomoyuki28jp: try (declare (special x)) 07:24:44 (let ((x "ok!")) (declare (special x)) (load "/tmp/test2.lisp")) -- untested 07:24:48 oudeis: it works! thanks a lot. Do you think it is okay to do thing like this? 07:24:55 no :) 07:25:06 this feels quite unlispy 07:25:10 (to me) 07:26:05 oudeis: yeah, that's what I thought. I am creating html template system and want to do thing like this. 07:26:38 have a look at html-template, for example, and see how it approaches things 07:26:49 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:26:55 oudeis: that's nice idea. thanks for your advice. 07:28:19 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:33:00 beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has joined #lisp 07:33:05 Good afternoon. 07:33:52 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:10 tomoyuki28jp: that idea is misguided in the first place because if you want to make a template, as opposed to generate your html from lisp code, that template should be format-agnostic, i.e. a simple text file with some special syntax to allow lisp code to transform it -- ergo, you can't (load) it 07:34:38 beach, good afternoon 07:36:19 oudeis: I am kinda trying to create html-template with sexp ex: (html/ (body/)) => 07:36:31 beach: good afternoon 07:37:13 tomoyuki28jp: cl-who does what you want 07:39:01 oudeis: I have tried cl-who, but I actually didn't like the syntax. 07:39:12 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a94-083.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:39:16 jestocost [n=cmell@cad4e7-102.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:39:29 but with cl-who you don't write your code in files, and then load them, you write it in functions in your lisp code. that way, you can use standard lisp methods (putting various bits of the "template" in separate functions), instead of inventing the wheel with template inheritance etc 07:40:30 oudeis: I understand what you mean. 07:40:35 tomoyuki28jp: there's only so much variation you can have on sexp->html syntax, all of them trivial 07:42:49 yrb [n=yrb@121-72-230-58.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:28 i actually like cl-who design a lot (because of its tag-agnosticism). i also like django templates (python) for the same reason (total text format agnosticism) 07:44:27 (i never used lisp _templates_ libraries, only cl-who, so can't comment) 07:45:26 phf [n=phf@c-98-231-140-203.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:21 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:48:02 -!- Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-298524.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["reboot"] 07:52:02 Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-298524.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:55:30 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:58:42 -!- phf [n=phf@c-98-231-140-203.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 08:01:46 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-0-153.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:05:13 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:34 -!- lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:07:47 lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has joined 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is not Xmass here 08:58:37 Phoodus: Hawaii, not CA 09:00:11 cu l8r 09:00:19 -!- kiuma [i=51d06a4b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f01dbf9938042d18] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 09:00:35 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA3BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:01:30 NoorDextor [n=Game450@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 09:03:37 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-24-31.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:15:01 beach` [n=user@203.210.248.212] has joined #lisp 09:15:05 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.244.117] has joined #lisp 09:22:33 -!- beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:22:37 -!- beach` is now known as beach 09:27:04 oudeis [n=oudeis@217.194.205.196] has joined #lisp 09:29:36 -!- wormphlegm [n=george@c-98-234-189-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:30:26 g'day 09:30:32 hello schme 09:32:53 valvola [n=fabiovio@host90-250-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has 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has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:01:57 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:02:48 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B10D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:05:25 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 11:10:24 araujo [n=araujo@190.37.166.81] has joined #lisp 11:11:49 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:12:03 -!- beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has left #lisp 11:12:06 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:18:32 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8abf-132.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:21:16 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:26:03 -!- Spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 11:26:06 crod [n=cmell@cb8abf-132.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:37:20 -!- fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:37:21 -!- jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:39:06 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:43:44 az` [n=aaz@host89-251-107-22.hnet.ru] has joined #lisp 11:44:02 hi, i am trying to use slime for the first time 11:44:07 and there is a problem 11:44:13 describe it 11:44:35 m-x slime starts *inferior-lisp* buffer 11:45:29 but in manual there is: ". If you do find a command that pops up the *inferior-lisp* buffer, that command doesn't belong to SLIME, and you should probably lookup our equivalent. " 11:45:58 az`: is there a buffer named *slime-repl somethingsomething* 11:46:06 every time after when i use C-C C-Z there is inferior lisp buffer 11:46:11 C-x C-b 11:46:21 no, there is no slime-repl 11:47:09 slime is from cvs, maybe that's the case? 11:47:25 Beket: you probably have better emacs-skills than I have 11:48:01 i will try 'cvs update -r FAIRLY-STABLE .' 11:48:06 I'd doubt. az` I am running slime-cvs too with no problems. What's your platform ? 11:48:23 Beket: linux 11:48:45 tcr [n=tcr@p4FD3E689.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:59 and i was tryng to check if there is some problem with my emacs configuration files 11:49:24 what did you add to your ~/.emacs? 11:49:27 so, i started emacs like HOME=/tmp emacs (clean configuration) 11:50:02 and then evaluate lines from clime install documentation 11:50:39 add-to-list load-path, require slime 11:50:45 but result is the same 11:51:33 -!- tiesje` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:51:35 ah 11:51:58 cvs is the case 11:52:27 after i've done ' cvs update -r FAIRLY-STABLE .' all is well 11:52:42 it seems HEAD revision is broken or something 11:53:11 but STABLE revision not compiling with my sbcl :( 11:53:23 only with clisp 11:53:51 i guess that's ok for now 11:56:29 error with sbcl was: ; Symbol "DEBUG-SOURCE-FROM" not found in the SB-DI package.; compilation aborted after 0:00:08 11:56:52 az`: FAIRLY-STABLE is a very old branch 11:57:10 az`: Basically, your SBCL version is too new for that branch 11:57:13 tcr: but head is working very strange 11:57:16 HEAD is borked btw. .. at least it was yesterday or so 11:57:24 az`: do cvs update -D 2008-12-01 11:57:35 ah, ok, thanks 11:57:45 cvs update -dP -D 2008-12-01 perhaps 11:58:35 otoh, there was an issue just fixed 11:58:40 perhaps cvs head works now again 11:59:50 yes, 2008-12-01 works fine 11:59:56 i will try head now 12:02:03 no, head is still broken 12:03:23 kenyon [n=kenyon_@xdsl-81-173-237-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:04:27 i think, they should make somewhat newer stable revision, it was too hard for newbie like me to try slime, stable revision is too old, and new revision is too broken :) 12:04:41 minion: logs 12:04:41 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ ; older logs may be available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (down as of 2008/09/24) 12:05:09 yes .. fairly-stable probably needs an upgrade 12:06:26 az`: The trick is not to try to checkout during holidays 12:06:39 madnificent: Re: FiveAM, it might have been my fault, but debugging it was a major pain. FiveAM added a huge amount of noise and overhead. 12:07:00 rcy [n=rcy@S01060013102d91ee.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:09 az`: You should report your concern to the mailing list, though. The list is available from gmane, so you don't have to subscribe. 12:07:22 tcr: here is only friday :) 12:07:38 madnificent: Just running 40 tests took about 5 seconds, whereas with Stefil I'm running four times that number (identical tests, just with more data) in less than half a second. 12:08:41 I got the impression (from dabbling with the statistical profiler) that a lot of the overhead had to do with creating string streams, though I didn't investigate it further. 12:10:37 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 12:10:39 Aankhen``: do you know of a good writeup about Stefil (preferably it's differences with respect to 5am)? I might read up on it some day (though I expect to be faithful to 5am for some time). 12:11:40 -!- az` [n=aaz@host89-251-107-22.hnet.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:12:38 madnificent: The project page on cl.net has a demo page. Stefil is a lot simpler; you'll find the same `is', `finishes' and `signals' macros. The major difference is that Stefil is completely geared towards testing in SLIME, so defining a test suite means defining a bunch of normal functions that print out the same "..Xf.." stuff but return an interesting object which you can inspect for detailed information. 12:14:31 Aankhen``: thanks 12:14:35 s/simpler/simpler than FiveAM/ 12:14:41 No problem. 12:18:07 Jabberwo_ [n=jens@dslc-082-082-052-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:10 -!- Jabberwo_ [n=jens@dslc-082-082-052-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:20:16 -!- kenyon_ [n=kenyon_@xdsl-81-173-151-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:21:40 Aankhen``: indeed, it looks very nice. The integration with slime could drastically lower debugging-time 12:22:26 *Aankhen``* nods. 12:22:57 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6448.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:26:06 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 12:26:50 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:27:11 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6448.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:42 Does it even work with cvs head? 12:29:01 attila is using a fork based on a fairly old version of slime 12:30:09 elurin [n=user@88.254.105.102] has joined #lisp 12:30:31 It was working for me with the version I downgraded to last night. Haven't test with CVS HEAD yet, although based on a cursory glance through the changes it doesn't seem likely that it would break. :-S 12:31:23 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:33:17 nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-222-144-34.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:20 G'morning all. 12:36:39 nyef: kreuter fixed the constant prop bug I digged out! 12:36:46 tcr: Cool. 12:37:26 And I found the complete thinko that had me chasing down syscall conventions for most of the past day. 12:38:30 good morning 12:39:07 Now if I could just remember how to get at errno... 12:39:23 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 12:39:47 drewc, H4ns1: herep 12:40:07 NoorDextor [n=Game450@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 12:40:19 ehu`: Long time no see. How are you? 12:40:20 drewc, H4ns1: I'm having trouble (possibly) with c-l.net: I think the default locale (en_US.UTF-8) isn't installed. 12:40:30 I'm fine thanks. 12:40:45 I've been busy trying to iron out some bugs in ABCL 12:40:56 (the compiler, to be exact) 12:40:58 Is git.boinkor.net a tad slow for anyone else? 12:41:27 hi nyef, osicat has a very cool way of accessing errno with cffi-wrappers 12:41:29 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:41:45 tcr: and helping people to get going with their ABCL-in-Java-program embedding/integration. 12:41:56 ehu`: Did you take up ansi-tests yet? 12:42:02 crod: Or I could just use SB-ALIEN:GET-ERRNO, which is already accessible in my package. 12:42:50 Ah, ESRCH. Perfect. 12:43:56 tcr: more or less: I've created a project for it. I've committed some small changes which prevented the tests running out of the box with ABCL 12:44:03 but other than that, nothing more. 12:44:15 I don't think anybody has joined the project either. 12:44:58 ehu`: What's its name? 12:45:20 common-lisp.net/project/ansi-test 12:45:57 ehu`: I'll subscribe the mailing list to gmane. 12:46:21 good idea. thanks. 12:48:19 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:24 madnificent: FWIW, my memory was incorrect. 160 tests run in much less than 0.5 seconds. Now I'm up to 844 tests in 0.03 seconds. 12:55:14 You know what? In SBCL, ERRNO should be a symbol-macro. Just because. 13:00:15 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf09c.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 13:01:33 i think osicat actually uses that on sbcl 13:01:43 Wouldn't surprise me. 13:01:56 if you don't care about portability then errno is easy :) 13:02:08 What -would- surprise me is if it used the underlying function that returns a pointer to a thread-local variable, and simply dereferenced that. 13:02:31 *nyef* was curious a year or so ago and turned that up. 13:02:59 that's only glibc iirc 13:03:13 'swhat I use. 13:03:47 The only other environment I use on occasion is windows, and I wouldn't be looking for errno there, I'd be calling GetLastError(). 13:04:43 fair enough 13:05:04 i think the glibc function is only for threaded mode or something 13:05:19 It might well be specific to the threaded libc. 13:06:02 allegro's def-foreign-call has some stuff to return the right errno or even getlasterror on winblows 13:06:04 But that would mean that all -programs- have to be compiled against the correct set of headers (or with the correct flag on the command line). 13:06:21 yes, they do have to be compiled like that 13:06:40 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:06:47 mulligan [n=user@e178049191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:50 Ah, -pthread. Yeah, I see that. 13:06:59 you also have to rewrite them too :) 13:07:06 You might. :-P 13:07:36 I think the last major C program I wrote was exploiter. 13:08:02 (The program that killed the explorer III project.) 13:08:22 But it was a mercy killing, so that's okay. 13:10:26 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 13:14:41 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279441402.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:15:26 -!- holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:15:58 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:19:40 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.204.119] has joined #lisp 13:25:37 oudeis_ [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 13:32:56 Jabberwo_ [n=jens@dslb-082-083-119-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 13:34:33 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 13:34:50 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@217.194.205.196] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:37:20 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:38:47 breinded [n=nonamme@h-67-100-110-200.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:16 -!- elurin [n=user@88.254.105.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:48:13 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.26] has joined #lisp 13:49:08 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslc-082-082-052-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:50:24 jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 13:51:58 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6448.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:55:02 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4474.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:48 clhs inline 13:55:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_inline.htm 13:56:05 Ah, it is declaim. Good... 13:58:03 -!- Beket [n=Beket@athedsl-298524.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:58:48 hmm too bad sbcl's type checker doesn't assign any types to list contents 13:59:02 (sb-impl::%fun-type (lambda () (cons 42 69))) 13:59:11 weirdo: That's a slippery slope there... 13:59:14 that cound be (cons (member 42) (member 69)) 13:59:21 that's not a list 13:59:31 oh, but you get the idea 13:59:57 it's not a proper list, I mean 14:00:25 weirdo: You can declare it explicitly: (sb-impl::%fun-type (lambda () (declare (values (cons fixnum fixnum))) (cons 42 69))) 14:02:31 elurin [n=user@85.104.129.185] has joined #lisp 14:02:45 nyef, why is that a slippery slope? 14:03:18 The time and memory cost of computing such things. 14:04:07 ok 14:04:49 ehu`: still here? 14:05:44 weirdo pasted "sbcl type inference" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72671 14:06:18 is there a standard documentation generator for Lisp (like javadoc, rubydoc etc) 14:06:39 No. Nor can there be, really. 14:06:40 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:01 (There could be a "done thing", but without a new ANSI standard, there can be no standard documentation generator.) 14:07:05 PissedNumlock: There's _8david's AtDoc which is similiar to JavaDoc 14:07:20 PissedNumlock: documentation strings are built-in. But that doesn't really contain much information, besides that there is a multitude of systems available (yet I have not tried any of them) 14:07:23 There's probably three or four similar utilities, though. 14:07:44 k thx 14:07:46 it's good, gets that result even if the second argument to %patmatch is of type T 14:07:50 minion: memo for ehu`: Please post a mail to the ansi-test mailinglist. The post will then create gmane.lisp.ansi-tests. 14:07:50 Remembered. I'll tell ehu` when he/she/it next speaks. 14:09:11 does minion have some sort of saving for when it goes down? Or is everything only in the memory of the bot (just curious) 14:09:38 madnificent: I don't know about memos, but I know the small definitions are stored on disk. 14:10:53 nyef: disk being a form that is written to the disk, or a database-like thing? 14:11:10 It's a file full of sexps. 14:11:32 *madnificent* 's curiosity has been fulfilled 14:12:24 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf09c.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:13:33 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 14:17:18 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177144003.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 14:18:25 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-147-61.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 14:19:03 roby_ [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:23:02 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@72-255-51-70.client.stsn.net] has quit [] 14:25:33 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:44 morning 14:26:33 -!- merach [n=none@c-71-199-20-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:28:14 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8abf-132.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:30:30 and then i discovered SXHASH 14:30:43 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 14:31:16 merAch [n=none@c-71-199-20-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:24 anyone know of common uses for sxhash? say, by a major library? 14:31:27 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host151-218-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:31:36 fusss: Directly or indirectly? 14:31:53 any clues please! :-D 14:32:04 cl-ppcre uses it 14:32:08 so you get a hash-code for any lisp object? 14:32:08 and mcclim 14:32:15 It's almost certainly used by the hash-table implementation of your lisp system. 14:32:30 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 14:32:45 *nyef* digs out his long disused copy of Stevens, Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment. 14:32:48 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 14:33:01 can i apply it to a parsed html tree and use that to do fast matching to see of they have matching structures or something? 14:33:22 s/of/if/ 14:33:58 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit ["time to go home"] 14:34:07 <_8david> fusss: most likely not. Implementation are likely to use SXHASH for the EQUAL hash test only for those types that actually have interesting semantics under EQUAL. The "hash code" returned by SXHASH for anything else is usually extremely bad. 14:34:57 tcr: back now 14:34:58 ehu`, memo from tcr: Please post a mail to the ansi-test mailinglist. The post will then create gmane.lisp.ansi-tests. 14:34:58 <_8david> It doesn't help for any EQ-based hashing schemes. Example: for vectors SBCL returns a value based on the vector's length as a hash code. 14:34:59 what did the clhs writers thing it would be used for though? 14:35:25 Okay, I do still need to wait(2) after SIGCHLD. Good. 14:35:34 <_8david> fusss: don't know. It's simply "the best you can do" to compute an EQUAL hash code portably (!). 14:36:03 <_8david> Any other strategy would involve either a hash code in the object (like Java does and CL doesn't) or GC-based rehashing tricks, which are out of scope for SXHASH. 14:36:28 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 14:37:04 _8david: Are you subscribed to editor-hints already? 14:37:33 <_8david> tcr: yes, I'm eagerly awaiting your mail! ;-) 14:37:36 Mmm... The old TI Explorers, and presumably other LispMs, maintained a GC count, which was updated each GC. Hash tables also held the count of the last GC they were rehashed on and checked to see if they needed rehashing on every access. 14:38:30 _8david: sorry, sbcl hacking and the constant prop bug made me stay up late 14:38:43 nyef: SBCL could do that, but, according to jsnell's rehashing during GCs usually isn't an issue. 14:38:55 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-101-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:15 pkhuong: Might be during an incremental realtime generational collection, though. 14:40:26 For some reason, I thought eq hashtables were rehashed on the first access after GC. 14:40:27 nyef: even better would be to set a flag when the GC modifies a pointer in the table. 14:41:01 Ah, you mean when it finds a broken heart? 14:41:24 (Or any other forwarding pointer, such as a GCYP?) 14:42:21 Do you know why sbcl does take up inferenced types across function calls? Superfluous type-checking in safe code? 14:42:23 crod [n=cmell@cb8abf-132.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:42:27 does _not_ take up 14:42:44 tcr: Redefinition semantics. 14:43:24 nyef: right, or just when it copies some of the table's children. That'd only be useful under a generational GC. 14:43:33 If you explicitly declare the ftype, it will use the declared information. But otherwise, it can only assume that you might want to redefine a function incompatibly. 14:43:49 tcr: Note that it -does- do good type inference on inlined functions. 14:44:09 and local ones. 14:44:36 pkhuong: How would it know to set the flag, though, when it's moving hashed objects accessed via some other pointer? 14:45:17 Couldn't there be a declaration which I could declaim? (declaim (optimize (sb-ext:pervasive-type-inference t)) 14:47:11 iasc [n=\0@varenka.cime.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:21 there are other tricks possible, too. Say I have a function BAR with return typ (values integer), when I redefine BAR, the function that is stored in the indirection could be (lambda (args) (check-return-type '(values integer) (apply #'new-definition-for-BAR args))) 14:48:36 so you're allowed to do compatible redefinitions 14:48:45 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 14:49:11 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-249.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:49:36 tcr: there's a special variable, sb-c::*derive-function-types* 14:49:55 Sure. But I think you'll find that declaim ftype for the derived function type will do the trick as well on detecting incompatible redefinitions... 14:50:52 nyef: sure, when fixing pointers up too. But you need to track both fix-ups and copying. 14:51:17 Hrm. We have wait(2), waitpid(2), waitid(2), wait3(2), and wait4(2)... 14:51:28 nyef: Explicit ftype declaims are a chore.. 14:51:41 tcr: So automate it? 14:51:51 blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D7950.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:53 tcr: sb-c::*derive-function-types* 14:52:10 pkhuong: Yeah, I forgot about that. Thanks 14:52:11 nyef: we're hoping to double the number of wait calls in the next posix revision 14:52:20 locklace: I quit. 14:52:24 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B10D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:53:04 I don't need wait3 or wait4... Or waitid, or wait, really. 14:53:22 -!- Jabberwo_ [n=jens@dslb-082-083-119-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:54:10 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D7950.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:55:23 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:55:52 <_8david> weren't you busy hacking a core file inspector? how does wait() enter into that? 14:55:59 envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:56:05 -!- envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:56:40 ptrace(), of course. 14:57:12 (What core better to inspect than a running one?) 14:58:05 <_8david> ah, nice 14:58:10 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:20 <_8david> (Personally, the cold core is more interesting from a "things can go very wrong here" perspective to me.) 14:59:01 Uh-huh. And gdb is particularly useless just after first gc anyway. 15:00:19 sysfault [i=exalted@c-68-45-34-224.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:49 <_8david> make cold cores reproducible and you get a beer from me at ILC! 15:02:10 Reproducible, or just comparable? 15:03:14 <_8david> well, comparable using something more helpful than hexdump would be a start, but getting consecutive compilation runs of the same source to output the same core is what I actually need. 15:04:58 <_8david> ... because it's a prerequisite for what I'm hoping will show the bug in relocation: 15:05:06 <_8david> 1. dump cold core at dynamic space start A 15:05:09 <_8david> 2. relocate to B 15:05:17 <_8david> 3. dump cold core at dynamic space start B 15:05:20 <_8david> compare 1 and 3 15:05:35 Um. 15:05:55 Let me think about that a sec. 15:08:46 <_8david> err, compare 2 and 3, I mean 15:10:24 -!- avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:11:15 autodoc works for me for flets, but not always. when does it activate? 15:11:30 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:19 nyef_ [n=nyef@pool-71-255-137-188.cncdnh.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:28 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-222-144-34.man.east.verizon.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:13:31 -!- nyef_ is now known as nyef 15:14:36 Someone unplugged the DSL gateway without thinking that "gee, maybe people are still using this". 15:15:42 _8david: Have you considered adding another argument to genesis for the dynamic space start? That way you can re-use the same fasls. 15:16:47 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 15:19:04 <_8david> hmm, good idea, I hadn't thought of that 15:19:06 <_8david> (I wanted to get Xophe's patch for reproducible cold fasls finished first, but didn't have time then.) 15:19:17 weirdo: When not? 15:20:11 milanj [n=milan@79.101.137.186] has joined #lisp 15:20:55 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 15:23:56 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.46.24] has joined #lisp 15:25:58 -!- NoorDextor [n=Game450@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit ["Go Canada!"] 15:26:46 tcr, can't reproduce. maybe later 15:27:19 oh, you're a slime developer 15:29:30 costal [n=draven@shm67-2-82-227-190-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:43 I implemented autodoc for flet, yeah 15:35:14 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-108-36.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:37:34 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8abf-132.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:37:39 crod [n=cmell@cad439-016.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:37:59 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host112.190-137-248.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:38:24 -!- avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:38:40 -!- sysfault [i=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [] 15:40:25 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:19 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:22 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:30 drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:52:37 tcr, would it be hard to add support for my own construct macroexpanding into labels? :) 15:53:01 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host219.190-137-247.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:55:19 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.54] has joined #lisp 15:55:33 drewc: is versions.tech.coop down ? 15:56:18 weirdo: That depends on its syntax. Autodoc for flet is performed by kludgly parsing the content of an emacs buffer 15:58:34 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:01:19 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.204.119] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 16:01:51 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit ["Stopping IRC chat... [OK]"] 16:03:30 fe[nl]ix: 80.68.86.19? That's a familiar IP address, somehow... 16:06:02 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 16:09:46 tcr, something like (rec local-fn-name bindings . body) 16:10:26 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:10:49 can you make some pretty printing for a class made with defclass ? 16:11:01 lispnewbie ftw \o/ 16:11:13 PissedNumlock: yes. 16:11:19 clhs print-object 16:11:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_pr_obj.htm 16:11:26 thx 16:11:35 no problem 16:11:45 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 16:11:58 weirdo: REC is the name of the macro? 16:12:21 vasa [n=vasa@mm-172-93-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 16:12:39 ah well it's not trivial then 16:12:58 but straightforward 16:13:06 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:14:17 drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:19:23 tcr, yes 16:19:25 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178049191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:21:00 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:07 mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has joined #lisp 16:25:58 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:27:53 -!- drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:37:43 lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:37:59 Hello lhz. 16:38:13 nyef, hi! 16:39:29 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:40:57 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.26] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:42:16 Okay, I think that's waitpid(2) wrapped properly. 16:44:18 (ptrace-hacking::waitpid -1 ptrace-hacking::wnohang) => -1, 0, 10. sb-posix:echild => 10. Yup, that's working. 16:48:27 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.46.24] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:50:14 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:52:08 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:52:11 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F334.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:28 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:54:39 hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279441402.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:54:39 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279441402.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:55:38 -!- costal [n=draven@shm67-2-82-227-190-152.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:56:22 petro [i=Peter@p4FE97473.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:55 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:57:25 -!- seelenquell__ [n=seelenqu@pD9E44CF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 16:59:33 josemanuel [n=josemanu@52.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:08:21 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 17:10:25 http://www.fastcgi.com/devkit/cgi-fcgi/cgi-fcgi.c - wow! 17:10:35 they actually wrote that, so i won't have to 17:11:33 egn [n=egn@c-76-25-206-124.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:38 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 17:12:06 hi, how do I say the equivalent of "using namespace foo;" so I don't have to preface functions with (package:some-funct) 17:12:22 egn, in-package 17:12:29 (in-package :package-name) 17:12:33 jpcooper: thanks 17:12:38 no problem 17:13:35 -!- roby_ [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 17:13:45 or (use-package '#:package) 17:16:06 egn: Define a new package like (defpackage :egn (:use :common-lisp :some-other-pkg)), then use (in-package :egn) on top of your files 17:18:20 tcr: stassats: thanks 17:20:59 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-172-93-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:29:37 -!- avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:30:03 *nyef* notices the birth of lh-linuxapi, and wonders if it's an event to be celebrated or mourned. 17:34:33 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:36:21 vasa [n=vasa@mm-178-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 17:37:28 nyef: lh-linuxapi? 17:39:40 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6448.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:18 tazyes [n=julian@tul19-1-88-168-12-32.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:49 -!- tazyes [n=julian@tul19-1-88-168-12-32.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 17:43:22 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6448.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:43:49 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:14 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 17:46:00 fusss: Well, I have some initial hacking towards direct syscall support, I have wait(2) and waitpid(2) bindings along with related constants and replacements for the macros, and I'm messing with ptrace. What -else- am I going to call it? 17:46:30 (And don't say "Arthur".) 17:46:41 jollygood_ [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 17:46:57 ironChicken [n=richard@79-75-104-125.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:04 I cheerfully use ungrovelled constants, linux-specific behavior, etc. 17:47:25 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:47:41 About the only concession I'm making to portability at this point is checking to see that the constants and such are the same between x86 and amd64. 17:48:20 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:48:26 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@52.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 17:49:33 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:49:40 -!- crod [n=cmell@cad439-016.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:49:44 But basically, some of this stuff (wait(2), for example) I would have expected to see in sb-posix. 17:50:21 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:50:22 (And don't tell me run-program uses wait3(2). I saw that and was underwhelmed.) 17:50:59 ok, i was about to organize an intervention 17:51:20 Heh. 17:54:28 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:55:54 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:56:12 -!- rcy [n=rcy@S01060013102d91ee.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:57:04 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4474.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 17:57:35 -!- drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:00:33 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:02:25 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:02:27 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:03:41 robyonrails [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:04:05 HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:04:14 crod [n=cmell@cad43e-014.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:04:18 -!- elurin [n=user@85.104.129.185] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:04:22 *nyef* is disgusted. 18:04:35 The last argument to ptrace is a void *. 18:05:01 But for "continue" operations (CONT, DETACH, etc.), it's actually treated as an int. 18:06:02 This interface is not merely "unique and arcane", it's dangerous to ones sanity. 18:07:43 wormphlegm [n=george@c-98-234-189-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:59 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:11:08 No, of course SB-ALIEN:CAST can't do that. That'd be -useful-. :-/ 18:11:20 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:11:48 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:12:32 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:15:05 And, of course, set-errno is just too useful an operation to have in sbcl by default. 18:16:04 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:04 I think, now that I have attach and detach figured out, that I'm going to take a break. 18:18:01 nyef, what's the problem? 18:18:08 int can always be casted to void* 18:18:17 nyef: just curious, will this all be _better_ or just different when all is said and done? 18:18:55 nyef, what's the problem? can't use it from sbcl cffi? declare last arg as long and CAST SAP to long :-) 18:24:21 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4474.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:26:05 CRAP! I just realized the ILC is the same week as another conference I've already signed up for. 18:29:12 Does anyone know where to find info on ELS 2009? 18:31:10 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:32:05 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:33:19 ahaas: http://european-lisp-symposium.org/ 18:33:34 fe[nl]ix: thanks! 18:36:14 josemanuel [n=josemanu@52.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:37:12 slyrus: I don't know? It should certainly be different. We'll see about better. 18:37:47 slyrus: But I do like the idea of being able to stop at every branch, jump, call, and return, and verify that the stack frame and registers are correct for what is supposed to be happening. 18:38:55 slyrus: And consider the possibility of being able to trace the execution of a cold-core, following along in a trace-file and source code for various functions. 18:39:32 nyef: yeah, sounds nice 18:39:33 weirdo: I don't use cffi. I only use sb-alien, and sb-alien's cast only works on pointer and array types. 18:39:57 weirdo: What I ended up doing was leaving the last arg as an (* t), and using sap-alien on an int-sap. 18:40:11 slyrus: So it's going to be different, with the distinct possibility of better. 18:43:43 vmCodes [n=vmCodes@5ac80279.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:11 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:45:45 schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-033-102.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:14 -!- schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-033-102.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:50:27 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:00 -!- vmCodes [n=vmCodes@5ac80279.bb.sky.com] has left #lisp 18:56:57 -!- galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:36 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:01:29 bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:45 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:10:55 -!- bobrown` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:16:44 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:19:33 k3rnel0 [n=ishtus@91.184.220.239] has joined #lisp 19:20:05 -!- k3rnel0 [n=ishtus@91.184.220.239] has left #lisp 19:20:31 tishhy [n=ishtus@91.184.220.239] has joined #lisp 19:20:48 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 19:21:37 I think I may have the GPR values to play with. 19:21:38 -!- jollygood_ [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit ["..."] 19:21:47 hello everyone, i need some help with lisp coding, is it ok if i write my question here? 19:23:00 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 19:23:30 tishhy: Sure, if it's common lisp and not emacs-lisp, autolisp, scheme, etc. 19:23:54 *nyef* ponders the address #x7f6e50e89073. 19:24:05 ok, what i have coded so far is: i get a function as an input eg: (f+ 4 (f* 2 2x) 1) and i need to simplify it as (f+ 5 4x) and print it out 19:24:23 i read the input from the user 19:25:06 and i've writen a function to read each element from input and decide if its a function, a number or a symbol 19:25:21 and im a bit stuck now regarding what i am supposed to do :/ 19:26:16 Well, let's take the simpler case first. What do you do with (f* 2 2x)? 19:26:41 well i iterate through each atom 19:26:50 the 1st is f* which i apply to 2 and 2x 19:27:31 but what happens if i hit an other cons? lets say i have something like (f* (f+ x y) (f+ y x)) 19:28:14 ... You know, I could have sworn that this sort of thing was discussed in either PAIP or SICP. 19:29:22 dv___ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:29:31 Yeah, PAIP, chapter 8 is about algebraic simplification. 19:29:45 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-251-219.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:55 ah cool 19:29:59 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6448.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:12 So now you can hit the books. 19:30:19 -!- dv___ is now known as dv_ 19:30:22 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 19:31:03 Ah! I know. I can look at /proc/7137/maps! 19:32:08 And it's an address in libc. 19:32:23 robyonrails [n=roby@host60-240-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:32:58 tishhy, there was some algebra simplification used as a test for pattern matching on cl 19:33:21 posted by The Toad and followed up by several lispers on cll 19:33:55 it might be applicable if you're only looking for a working solution 19:34:17 Now, if you're looking for a homework solution, you'll probably have to disguise it a bit more. 19:35:28 well it is for hw, but i wont learn anything if i dont read some books 19:35:40 (And I think I'm going to have to come up with a virtual processor model for working with ptrace.) 19:36:44 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:37:23 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:38:32 blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D771E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:55 hi, can anybody recall a text diff function, i.e. given two texts, return deltas? 19:39:07 i.e. can anybody recall if there's any 19:39:33 SLIB has one. 19:39:36 puchacz: Levenshtein(sp?) edit difference? 19:39:59 nyef: I think he refers to LCS. 19:40:17 something like that. 19:40:29 Or there's spitting them out to text files and calling diff(1) via run-program. 19:40:41 nyef: yup, found it: http://www.cliki.net/Levenshtein 19:40:44 probably will do 19:42:53 cl-diff 19:42:56 Err... 19:42:59 minion: cl-diff? 19:43:00 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-diff''. 19:43:03 Hrm. 19:43:14 Maybe it was called something else. 19:43:17 minion: diff-sexp 19:43:18 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``diff-sexp''. 19:43:25 I'm fairly sure there are a few implementations in lisp. 19:43:42 there is a cool diff for sexps 19:43:55 nyef: hmmm, not really, it is just (levenshtein:distance "a" "ab") --> 1 19:44:01 so no full deltas 19:44:21 minion: diff? 19:44:22 diff: DIFF is a simple asdf-installable Text Library which can compute unified-style or context-style diffs between two files. http://www.cliki.net/diff 19:44:25 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 19:44:28 http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/lisp/diff-sexp.lisp 19:44:28 oudeis: What, printing them with *print-circle* t and seeing where the common sections aren't patched out? 19:45:04 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 19:45:12 no, it actually uses levenstein distance algo :) 19:45:46 Okay, I'm going to do other things for a bit. 19:46:43 i once used it to scan a huge body of slightly-different html files (after converting them to sexps) and distilling the differences 19:47:39 oudeis: does it actually show deltas, or just numeric distance? 19:47:47 deltas 19:48:06 ok, cheers. I will try 19:50:09 -!- tishhy [n=ishtus@91.184.220.239] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:53:59 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:54:39 tishhy [n=ishtus@91.184.220.239] has joined #lisp 19:54:58 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:55 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D771E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:59:00 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.46.24] has joined #lisp 19:59:13 -!- tishhy [n=ishtus@91.184.220.239] has quit [Client Quit] 20:00:13 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:39 when does asdf recompile? does it only recompile if source becomes newer, not older? 20:03:25 ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:06 oh, that makes sense if they check file mtime against fasl mtime 20:04:37 and :force t for asdf:compile-op recompiles all depends recursively, doesn't it? 20:13:37 elurin [n=user@85.104.129.185] has joined #lisp 20:14:37 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:22 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:15:51 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:19:33 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6448.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:20:58 is there a name for the 3-bit quantity (like nibble for 4 bites)? 20:21:13 tribble? ;) 20:22:33 wikipedia suggests "nybble" 20:22:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibble 20:24:19 that's 4 bits 20:24:21 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:25:42 there's a sentence in there about "nybble" being used for less=than-8-bits-but-not-4 20:27:33 Hun [n=Hun@vpn18-170.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE] has joined #lisp 20:30:16 BrianRice: 5 fits 20:30:28 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:30:31 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-101-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 20:30:37 z0d: maybe "trit"? 20:30:58 or "tribit" 20:30:58 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 20:31:37 <_3b> i thought trit was a trinary digit, not 3 bits? 20:34:42 Yeah, a trit is trinary. 20:35:15 Maybe a "triplet" (by analogy to octet)? 20:36:42 ok, why does it have to have a name? 3 bit is short and unambiguous 20:37:18 fusss [n=kumi@c-68-55-4-78.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:19 -!- enodran|away is now known as enodran 20:42:25 -!- srp [n=srp@122.167.105.178] has quit [] 20:45:43 *slyrus* heads for the mountains 20:46:38 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:46:54 *fusss* is stuck in a tiny room with a thousand blinking LEDs 20:47:32 "hackers" are fun to hangout with on the internet. not so much IRL :-P 20:48:50 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 20:49:08 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:50:00 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 20:56:08 Is it too late to register for ILC 2009 or is registration not yet open? 20:58:03 should (find-package "foo") up-case its input string? 21:00:26 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 21:03:34 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 21:03:48 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 21:04:13 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:05:39 fusss: "This search is case sensitive. " 21:05:46 clhs:find-package 21:05:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_find_p.htm 21:05:55 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.192.83] has joined #lisp 21:06:24 fusss: Of course. There can be a package with name "foo", and a different one with name "FOO" 21:06:30 Of course _not_ 21:07:31 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:08:00 for someone who religiously names packages with keywords (defpackage :foo ..) I completely forgot the /other/ kind existed :-) 21:09:18 ok. so i got this stupid idea. in my pattern matcher, there are keywords like 'LIST or AND'. does it make much sense to make these keywords CLOS classes to enable inheritance, advice methods etc for them? 21:09:35 "keywords like 'LIST' or 'AND'" 21:09:51 blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D771E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:47 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:18:56 weirdo: It really depends. It sounds like you're considering designing for extensibility. 21:20:28 minion: cltl2 21:20:29 cltl2: "Common Lisp the Language, 2nd ed" is a book by Guy Steele that describes the state of Common Lisp as it was partway through the ANSI process. http://www.cliki.net/cltl2 21:23:46 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:26 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 21:26:08 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 21:27:16 Does anyone have the book version of cltl2 handy? 21:27:32 Yes. 21:27:44 And cltl1 if you need that instead. 21:28:01 nyef: Could you please look in the index for "token", "unqualified token", "qualified token" 21:28:08 and perhaps also in cltl1 21:28:18 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:28:39 and "extended token" 21:29:12 cltl2, "unqualified token", not found. 21:29:32 also look for "Backus Naur" 21:29:39 "qualified token", not found. 21:30:16 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@52.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 21:30:55 One match for "qualified name", in chapter "Packages", section 11.3 Translating Strings to Symbols, actual context is "This is done through the use of a -qualified name-, consisting of a package name, then a colon, then the name of the symbol." Page 251 in my copy. 21:31:11 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:31:34 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:36 "extended tokens" interpretation of, 516-524 intepretation of, as numbers, 516-520 interpretation of, as symbols, 516, 520 read-suppress and, 523. 21:32:53 These are all in chapter 22, input/output. 21:33:33 ah thank you 21:33:44 tokens is a lot of entries, pages all throughout the range 510-524, which is also chapter 22. 21:34:54 "Backus Naur" not found, "BNF" not found... "Naur" not found. 21:35:07 Do you want me to check cltl1 as well, or are you set for now? 21:35:31 Extended token is what I was looking for. 21:35:45 Okay, happy to help. 21:36:00 Is there anything else right now? 21:36:27 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:37:04 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D771E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:37:18 fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:15 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:49 -!- fusss [n=kumi@c-68-55-4-78.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:40:58 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:41:28 ashmawy [n=gfh@41.233.148.52] has joined #lisp 21:41:46 no thank you 21:42:09 i wanted to ask if i could construct a structure that contains functions ? 21:42:30 ashmawy: Functions are just another datatype. 21:42:41 (list #'foo #'bar #'baz) 21:42:52 nyef: Just one thing 21:42:59 nyef: or did you put them away already? 21:44:29 I did, but they're on a near shelf. 21:44:40 Aankhen``: more specifically could i use for example defstruct to add in a structure slots functions that were defined by defun ? 21:44:51 nyef: Ok not important 21:45:06 It's a matter of seconds to get them out again, you realize. :-P 21:45:12 ashmawy: You can bind slots to functions like you can to any other values, yes. 21:45:32 ashmawy: I'd give you an example but I'm not familiar with the syntax for structures. 21:45:40 nyef: I just wanted to ask what pages chapter 22 begins, but I found references to extended token already wholly by myself :) 21:45:53 Fair enough. 21:46:02 ashmawy: At any rate, to get at a function you defined using DEFUN, you'd say (FUNCTION FOO) where FOO is the name of the function. That can be shortened to #'FOO. 21:46:12 ashmawy: Are you reading a Lisp book? 21:47:24 nyef, i made everything optional and modular, and the next step will be creating an api for extensions in a separate package 21:47:34 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.46.24] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:47:35 even lists and variables are modular 21:47:58 it was a bit tricky preserving O(1) variable access with modularity :-) 21:48:10 You've got special support for removing the tail of a list and putting another in there? :-o 21:48:11 but i made a solution that makes it easy to extend the matcher by adding 21:48:18 "nestings" (sorry for line break) 21:48:27 -!- Hun [n=Hun@vpn18-170.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:49:00 aankhen``: sorry for replying late , yes i am scanning through and doing a uni project 21:49:27 though kleene star now depends on lists and also vectors 21:49:38 weirdo: Why did you make another pattern matcher? 21:50:28 did i mention that adding sequence types for kleene-starish keywords is possible in the future internal api? 21:51:12 tcr, didn't know if existing ones were any good and NIH-value was more convincing than reading other people's code 21:51:32 but now that all important stuff is written or figured-out-how-to-implement, i'm having a hard time finishing it 21:51:34 tcr: I think that translates as "Why not?". :-P 21:52:10 weirdo: Wait until you really want to make a release out of it, i.e. with documentation and test suite 21:52:26 yes, i was planning it 21:52:27 :-) 21:52:44 Test suites are easy, documentation is tougher. :-\ 21:52:52 (Of course, comprehensive test suites aren't that easy.) 21:53:02 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:53:11 O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 21:54:31 I don't know, I'm actually finding documentation easier than test suites these days. 21:54:37 It might depend on the project. 21:54:38 ashmawy pasted "functions inside structs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72686 21:54:51 I guess so. 21:55:06 This is my first real brush with working towards a public release of anything. 21:55:08 weirdo: And you can be sure that you'll find a lot of bugs on the way. Roughly 2-3 bugs per 100 loc, is my rule of thumb :) 21:55:28 Also might depend on how much you work with prose instead of code. 21:55:41 % wc -l < ~/git/toadstool/*.lisp ==> 529 21:55:41 nyef: I don't quite follow you.l 21:55:41 schme: Herep? 21:55:43 s/l$// 21:55:51 i'm not sure if the name is suitable 21:55:52 Aankhen``: http://paste.lisp.org/display/72686 ... This is how my structure looks like and what i want to do is make the slot action bind only to a set of functions , say foo1 anf foo2 21:56:00 it's supposed to be a pun 21:56:15 Aankhen``: If you don't write much prose, you'll be out of practice and find it hard to write documentation, which is primarily prose. 21:56:29 nyef: Oh, okay. I thought you were talking about prose with reference to test suites. 21:56:38 Aankhen``: constraining it in other words only to these functions 21:56:50 ashmawy: Sorry, like I said, I don't know much about structure syntax. 21:57:11 Aankhen``: Ahh ok , thnx anyway mate 21:57:21 No problem. 22:00:00 mrSpec [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 22:00:09 -!- spec[afk] [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:00:22 mrSpec_ [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 22:00:45 -!- mrSpec [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:00:51 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 22:00:52 -!- mrSpec_ is now known as mrSpec 22:01:31 tcr, will it take too long to make editor-hints portable and prime-time ready? 22:01:50 you use it in your pattern matcher? 22:02:12 no, but i want to use a read-time quasiquote in a sensible manner 22:02:32 My time for Lisp hacking for upcoming next two months will end in about three hours. 22:03:07 Making it releasable, that is writing documentation and a test suite, will probably take a man-week. 22:03:30 *nyef* thinks that documentation is more of a release requirement than a test suite is. 22:04:02 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-85.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 22:06:31 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 22:06:49 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:08:01 -!- elurin [n=user@85.104.129.185] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:08:36 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 22:08:57 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-85.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 22:12:20 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.166.64] has quit ["YOU CAN BE A WHINER TOO!"] 22:14:24 tcr, could you write some rough roadmap and accept diffs? 22:15:49 smolyn [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:09 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:21 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:20:28 weirdo: rework my with-readtable-iterator cdr, implement it into sbcl, get the stuff into mainstream (this usually takes a month), polish the sources, write documentation, make it releasable 22:21:12 implement slime contrib 22:22:02 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@195.116.35.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:23:08 aszarsha [n=Aszarsha@dsl-67-55-12-235.acanac.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:29 Mazingaro [n=tetsuja@host74-228-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:23:39 nyef: You called? 22:23:56 schme: Were you interested in usb devices a while ago? 22:24:04 nyef: If yer planning to ask if I have looked at the USB ... 22:24:05 oh 22:24:06 :D 22:24:59 nyef: Indeed I was! haven't touched anything computer related since last time we had a quick few words about it. :) 22:25:01 Heh. I was wondering if you had chance to see http://www.lisphacker.com/projects/lh-usb/ yet, and if so waht you thought. 22:25:11 Hoh... 22:25:19 I'll take a look at it :) Been on the offline! 22:25:24 It's still really rough, to be honest. 22:26:24 Aight :) I'll look at it tomorrie. Right now I'm dead tired here :) 22:26:37 And there's some eleven items on my list of future directions for it. 22:26:38 0.1.tar.gz sounds like a sign of maturity to me! 22:27:03 Yeah, I figured you might be, but I just wanted to make sure you knew at some point. 22:27:43 Well I grabbed the tarball! Thanks for reminding me about all this :) 22:28:23 Not a problem. I'll let you get your sleep, and maybe we can discuss it over the weekend or something. 22:28:34 Hopefully :) 22:28:51 (I've got another project I'm working on now, but I'd like to get an 0.2 release out the door before february.) 22:29:21 I need something to distract me from the RTS game I just found some hours ago. My eyes are bleeding here. some nice warm emacs colours on the screen tomorrow will save me, I am sure :) 22:29:58 Mmm... And I will probably need to take another break from the horrors of ptrace. 22:30:12 That sounds not nice at all :) 22:31:15 It's actually pretty cool when it works, it's just trying to figure it out and put a pretty interface on something which cheerfully expects to take integer values in a pointer argument slot is mind-bending at best. 22:31:19 -!- enodran is now known as enodran|away 22:31:43 That's bloody evil, nyef. Hand me a nice tarball in the middle of the night just to get me code browsing and awaken the ol' "wow.. I should just whip something up to test this." 22:31:59 Just think of it as something to look forward to tomorrow morning. :-P 22:32:12 :) 22:32:52 Ya this will be great. I need something lisp to poke around that is not mcclim for a bit :) 22:33:11 Now bed time though. I'll bug you about it blowing up my computer tomorrow :) 22:33:25 Fair enough. Sleep well. 22:33:26 hmm. No more games. I start abusing smilies. 'night #lisp 22:35:06 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-206-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 22:37:14 beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has joined #lisp 22:37:20 Good morning. 22:38:21 rvirding [n=chatzill@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:39 good morning beach 22:40:07 Is there any way to add documentation strings to CFFI functions created with DEFCFUN? 22:41:08 -!- enodran|away is now known as enodran 22:41:30 Hello beach. 22:41:36 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 22:43:07 phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 22:43:09 Hrm... Now what have I done? undefined function: (SB-PCL::SLOT-ACCESSOR :GLOBAL PID SB-PCL::READER) 22:43:27 fooquux: (cffi:defcfun "Docstring.") 22:43:46 It's going to be something stupid and basic, and caused by my not being particularly familiar with CLOS. 22:44:41 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4474.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 22:44:44 nyef: i got that when i incorrectly tried to take slot-value of a condition i think 22:44:51 fe[nl]ix: The docs don't say this, but I 22:44:55 I'll believe you. 22:45:52 fooquux: you were one M-. away from the answer 22:46:30 nyef pasted "what am I doing wrong?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72687 22:46:47 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:46:47 -!- netaust1n [n=austinsm@adsl-70-130-220-67.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit [] 22:46:56 blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D771E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:31 nyef: you forgot :reader, or :accessor 22:47:53 nyef: defclass ain't not defstruct! 22:48:33 tcr: Umm... I'm failing to see that requirement in the slot-value page in the hyperspec. 22:49:45 tcr: i don't understand that at all, with-slots expands into slot-value which should be fine whether or not you've defined a reader/accessor 22:49:50 -!- aszarsha [n=Aszarsha@dsl-67-55-12-235.acanac.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:50:13 kapuzineralex [n=alex@mnch-5d86a129.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 22:50:35 i got that error with a condition, which is ok because conditions aren't specified to work with slot-value 22:51:15 From the defclass page, "If no reader, writer, or accessor is specified for a slot, the slot can only be accessed by the function slot-value." 22:51:33 -!- mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:51:35 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.54] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:51:42 From the with-slots page, "The macro with-slots translates an appearance of the slot name as a variable into a call to slot-value." 22:51:43 nyef: Might be the compiler-macro that's defined for slot-value 22:52:02 Then -it shouldn't be warning-. 22:52:09 Or style-warning. 22:52:33 File a bug in the shiny new bug tracker :) 22:52:44 How do I do that, btw? 22:53:01 nyef: Create a launchpad account, once that's done it's very easy. 22:53:18 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D771E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:53:23 blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D771E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:46 Nevermind, I found it. Thinko on my part. ^_^; 22:54:09 Forgot to actually evaluate the defclass form. 22:55:31 -!- kapuzineralex [n=alex@mnch-5d86a129.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:56:58 tcr, so if i write any of that, send you a diff, amirite? 22:57:17 And if I'm making such elementary mistakes, it might be time for me to take another break. 22:58:45 nyef: file a bug anyway, the warning message should be clearer ;) 22:59:54 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:05 weirdo: You could implement a portable %WITH-READTABLE-ITERATOR in cruft.lisp. Make sure to implement it out of your head, not looking at pjb's list-all-macro-chars, because his function is licensed under GPL. 23:01:37 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:22 Also perhaps write a very short introduction to the primary stuff, i.e. defreadtable and in-readtable, and how to use them. 23:03:32 for the website 23:05:23 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:05:26 netaust1n [n=austinsm@adsl-70-130-220-67.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:08 -!- enodran is now known as enodran|away 23:09:43 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 23:10:22 -!- merAch [n=none@c-71-199-20-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:10:25 -!- ironChicken [n=richard@79-75-104-125.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [] 23:11:55 mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has joined #lisp 23:12:19 -!- avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:12:37 tcr, print macro and dispatch characters recursively, dispatch ones as conses? ok. 23:13:08 i ran the function when we last talked about editor-hints, but i don't remember its contents 23:13:40 tcr, do i have to handle circularities in dispatch-chars? :P 23:14:02 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:14:40 circularities? 23:15:08 dispatch chars pointing to themselves 23:16:04 I still don't see what you're referring to.. 23:16:55 weirdo: You have to implement this one: http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/with-readtable-iterator.pdf 23:17:09 d'oh! dispatch characters can only point to single characters 23:17:21 i confused that with emacs-style keymaps 23:17:33 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:35 mathrick [n=mathrick@195.116.35.13] has joined #lisp 23:23:31 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-178-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 23:27:31 tcr, can i depend on dispatch macro characters always being of the same type? 23:28:25 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-206-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:37 -!- mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:32:18 there are two types of macro characters, terminating ones, and non-terminating ones. A dispatch macro character is a normal macro character that is supplied by the implementation which dispatches on the character following the dispatch macro character. 23:32:45 and invokes a user-definable function 23:35:09 ehu`: Could you post a message to ansi-test-devel so the gmane group is created? 23:36:54 wow, an ansi test collection 23:38:24 beach: Still here? 23:38:29 -!- mrSpec is now known as mrSpec[zzzz] 23:41:22 tcr: yep 23:41:59 beach: I'd like to ask you to subscribe to editor-hints-devel (available from gmane, so you don't really have to subscribe.) 23:42:11 tcr: done 23:42:21 beach: the reason is that I'm currently writing a posting about my stand on structured docstrings. 23:42:27 tcr: sure, tell me how to do it. 23:42:41 <_8david> tcr sure knows how to build up the excitement 23:42:45 beach: _8david is currently working again on structured docstrings (i.e. with markup) 23:43:31 _8david: I just happen to know that beach's standpoint and mine converge for every epsilon-environment ;) 23:43:43 oh, no, not another markup language! 23:44:03 beach: Do you use gmane already? 23:44:10 no I don't 23:44:17 <_8david> beach: no new markup language involved, promise! 23:44:26 phew! 23:45:50 beach: You do have an nntp reader, though? 23:45:51 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 23:46:37 <_8david> the syntax is actually pluggable though, because I don't see standardization as likely in this area. So anyone not happy with the default could write their own parser. We only provide a CLOS API as an interchange format. 23:46:45 tcr: I do yes. 23:46:56 tcr: Gnus, actually. 23:47:22 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:47 beach: Add (nntp "news.gmane.org") to your gnus-secondary-select-methods 23:48:16 beach: Then press `r' in the Group buffer to reread your .gnus 23:48:35 -!- enodran|away is now known as enodran 23:48:54 beach: then press `^' in the Group buffer, and press RET on the gmane line. 23:49:44 beach: A list of all available groups should appear then. You can use `u' to subscribe to any group you wish. (Search for lisp in the buffer) 23:54:47 tcr, i wrote it but it's dog slow. could you please give me a hint? 23:56:08 maybe i know 23:56:09 already 23:56:39 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@pD95D771E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)]