00:00:26 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-69-254-76-231.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:27 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224122210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:01:45 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:02:56 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-070-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:05:24 I find myself doing full rebuilds more often that my conscience says I should--as if it is a hangover habit from my c++ days. However, there are times that I am unable to avoid it, such as moving a function from one package to another. 00:05:52 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 00:06:20 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-222-130-87.man.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:06:31 <_3b> why not just unbind it? 00:07:39 Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 00:08:23 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.169] has left #lisp 00:10:07 _3b: Never tried that. 00:10:23 -!- schasi [n=schasi@p54A26A29.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 00:10:57 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:12 _3b: How to do an unbind? 00:13:35 <_3b> clhs fmakunbound 00:13:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fmakun.htm 00:13:38 wgl: You can do it with the slime inspector. 00:14:54 Ah. Ok, the other issue I find is "package also exports symbol ". This also leads to delete fasls and full recompile. 00:15:21 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:15:35 wgl: You can fix that too. (And you can do it with the slime inspector.) 00:17:01 wgl: Try: c-c I, #'your-function. 00:17:39 lispm [n=joswig@e177144001.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:17:42 or c-c I, 'your-symbol 00:18:00 saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:19 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [] 00:18:24 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:44 zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 00:19:14 Is there a cross-platform interface library to flock? 00:19:24 ahaas, _3b: Thanks much. 00:19:50 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:23:49 Guest25682 [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:40 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:34 dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-005-123.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:17 -!- Guest25682 [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:31:27 hello 00:31:30 sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:13 I am using debian linux and would like to write lisp programs, what would I need to install 1) I need an Lisp IDE, 2) I need Lisp compiler & Libs 00:32:26 Please advise 00:32:39 sbcl, emacs, slime 00:33:01 probably, clbuild will be useful 00:33:03 does your bot have links/guides etc.? 00:33:11 to articles, pages, tutorials? 00:33:15 minion: please tell stoned about clbuild 00:33:15 stoned: look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 00:33:25 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 00:34:20 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["close-paren"] 00:34:26 cl-clg - Common Lisp bindings to GTK+ v2.x 00:34:30 hey awesome 00:35:11 sbcl - A Common Lisp compiler and development system 00:35:46 it is packaged and I will install this, there is xemacs and emacs-nox 00:35:55 <_3b> getting lisp software through debian isn't always a good idea 00:36:01 why not? 00:36:08 stoned: get emacs, not emacs-nox or xemacs 00:36:17 kpreid, whats the difference? 00:36:30 install sbcl from debian package, and then build your own (with clbuild) 00:36:44 or download the sbcl binary 00:36:45 build my own what? 00:36:46 XEmacs is a fork of (GNU) Emacs. emacs-nox would be GNU Emacs without X11 support 00:37:00 so I need GNU Emacs? 00:37:02 stoned: the reason not to use debian is that debian versions are often ancient 00:37:12 -!- sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:37:13 stoned: you wouldn't believe: sbcl 00:37:27 kpreid, I am using experimental/sid 00:37:33 hmm? build your own sbcl? that seems silly for getting started 00:37:37 half my system is compiled from source(desktop apps) 00:37:39 :) 00:37:39 stoned: I can't speak as to to specifics 00:37:49 let me tell you the versions I have 00:37:55 bye 00:38:13 stoned: mine is completely built from sources. what did you do, hack half the apps in your hex-editor? 00:38:16 kpreid: with clbuild this would be easy 00:38:17 -!- mrSpec [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:38:32 ok emacs is a metapacakge 00:38:33 Depends: emacs22 | emacs22-gtk | emacs22-nox 00:38:38 so I need emacs22? 00:38:45 emacs22 sounds like a good idea 00:38:59 Version: 22.2+2-5 00:39:04 *luis* uses emacs22-gtk 00:39:14 Depends: emacs22-bin-common (= 22.2+2-5) 00:39:36 I'll use the gtk one 00:39:37 I like gui 00:39:41 =D 00:40:53 so this is a good version right? 00:41:01 Guest71031 [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:11 I figure debian sid/exp should be fairly latest software 00:41:19 -!- dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-053-200.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:27 <_3b> yeah, emacs version doesn't matter as much, it is relatively mature 00:41:34 stuff I can't find packages I don't mind building but if its here why not use it. Or do you suggest I should build from source? 00:41:45 stoned: Don't install sbcl, slime, or other Lisp packages from the package manager, though. 00:42:23 ok 00:42:32 i'll take ya'lls more experienced word for it 00:42:35 You can download a binary for SBCL to get started. 00:42:35 I'll use the clbuild 00:42:48 then use clbuild to get SLIME and other packages. 00:43:07 <_3b> one problem with using debian, 8is that then you get debian specific problems which we would rather not support :) 00:43:25 <_3b> *using debian packages 00:43:31 <_3b> (using debian itself is ok) 00:44:14 ahaas, which binary? 00:44:30 the one for your platform 00:44:35 oh 00:45:18 -!- Guest71031 [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:45:27 I would let him use the official binary SBCL 00:46:17 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-df55af027d0b4a72] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:46:58 locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-146b8998976be673] has joined #lisp 00:47:05 wow man I'm getting into all this real older people unix stuff 00:47:15 I feel professional already ;) 00:48:29 step 2, get a professional nickname! 00:48:48 mSphix [n=msphix@aaov178.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:48:48 sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:11 luis, heh 00:50:30 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B367E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:56 -!- sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:54:21 sellout- [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:50 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 00:56:18 hehe 00:56:30 -!- sellout- [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:58:22 older people unix? 00:58:25 *rsynnott* glares 00:58:26 :) 00:59:04 sellout- [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:16 -!- Quadresce` is now known as Quadrescence 00:59:30 -!- sellout- [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:59:51 Should us heretic ubuntu users also use cl-build, instead of the packages from the package manager? 01:00:10 certainly don't use slime packages 01:00:26 V-ille: since you can turn clc off on gentoo, more so for debianites than for gentooers. 01:00:44 rsynnott: Care to elaborate why? 01:00:57 they tend to be pretty old 01:01:02 ok 01:01:08 impressively old, in some cases 01:01:14 incompatibly old, too, right? 01:01:16 and they will have weird problems 01:01:18 hmm, ASDF:FIND-SYSTEM causing missing component errors is bad... it's just a find-system, after all 01:01:33 ahaas: incompatibly old for lime isn't very old at all :) 01:01:38 *slime 01:01:56 sbcl 1.0.22 doesn't like slime from about six months ago, for instance 01:02:21 also, there's 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error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:18:10 -!- mvatki [n=michael@c-24-23-89-19.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:19:04 sctb [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:59 -!- fooquux_ is now known as fooquux 05:23:17 -!- syamajal_ [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:25:24 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.140.213] has joined #lisp 05:27:18 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:30:28 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.175.19] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:31:22 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 05:33:41 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:34:56 pcalcado [n=pcalcado@51.068.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:37:23 -!- sctb is now known as sebell 05:38:34 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 05:40:18 Anyone ever tried getting LAngband to compile recently? 05:41:34 I am having a terrible time trying to get zterm to compile on Mac OS X 10.5. 05:46:27 -!- holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:46:36 umontabea [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 05:47:24 -!- ebzzry__ is now known as ebzzry 05:57:56 -!- pcalcado [n=pcalcado@51.068.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [] 06:01:58 pcalcado [n=pcalcado@51.068.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:03:31 -!- aumontabe [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:06:52 -!- ddyCrazyE is now known as CrEddy 06:11:29 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has left #lisp 06:12:16 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:14:04 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:17:00 -!- cooper [n=jockc@dsl-206-251-71-245.dynamic.linkline.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:17:13 cooper [n=jockc@dsl-206-251-71-245.dynamic.linkline.com] has joined #lisp 06:17:57 I hate debugging my own code 06:21:47 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:22:40 yeah, there's no one to send patches to 06:23:20 not to mention bug reports! 06:24:48 Are there any programs using cl-ncurses extensively? 06:24:55 I would like some examples... 06:24:59 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 06:25:40 if not, I bet there's plenty of C programs using ncurses 06:26:07 -!- rread [n=rread@c-76-102-10-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:26:49 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 06:26:51 I already know ncurses pretty well, but the example code looks a bit different. 06:26:57 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:27:09 I am guessing some global variable stuff is less global in cl-ncurses. 06:27:17 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:28:43 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 06:37:29 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.163.225.113] has joined #lisp 06:37:59 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:02 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:43:44 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:48:40 rread [n=rread@c-76-102-10-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:52 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-204-183-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 06:51:19 -!- knightblader [n=da465415@monroe.cs.ucf.edu] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 06:53:06 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-101-69.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:53:21 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:51 -!- borism__ [n=boris@195-50-211-226-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:56:21 -!- cooper [n=jockc@dsl-206-251-71-245.dynamic.linkline.com] has quit [] 07:00:02 -!- sebell [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 07:03:35 -!- ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.91.152] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:05:50 umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:07 holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:29 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:12:35 montabeau [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 07:15:26 spoob [n=steve@219-90-192-249.static.adam.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:15:44 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 07:16:02 Well, that's a lot of lisp programmers. I'm looking for Nu, and wonder if this is the closest channel? 07:17:02 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:18:17 Judging from the lack of response you don't know what Nu is... which is not surprising. It is Lisp based on Objective C with built in constructs for putting Lisp code into Objective C classes. 07:20:03 i highly doubt that this is the right channel 07:22:24 That would be true if this channel is fixated on Common Lisp as the one true form (which would be hilariously wrong), but I'm hoping that Lisp programmers are sufficiently isolated from mainstream expectations that they would be into many forms of programming. 07:23:06 This channel is an umbrella channel for any Lisp. 07:23:19 Raynes: really? 07:23:21 I thought this was for CL 07:23:42 Thank you. I shall avoid the Objective C aspects of Nu, as I'm trying to pick up more about the Lisp side specifically, and am open to constructs that work in Common Lisp as well. 07:23:56 Isn't #common-lisp for CL? 07:24:02 Specificly. 07:24:05 Raynes: no 07:24:31 So this channel is strictly for CL discussions? 07:25:09 yes, look at the topic 07:25:34 One hell of a bad channel name then. 07:26:23 If this is specifically and only for Common Lisp, then I have no interest. I require the access to C that is provided via Nu and Objective C so that I can get into the GPU for OpenGL/OpenCL. 07:27:21 spoob: Well, apparently you're out of luck. 07:27:25 :( 07:27:39 Ah well, thank you for the information. I'll keep looking. 07:27:41 -!- spoob [n=steve@219-90-192-249.static.adam.com.au] has quit [] 07:27:49 some Common Lisp implementations can access C and objective c, like ccl... too late 07:29:08 -!- smolyn [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 07:30:02 -!- umontabea [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:31:17 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [":wq"] 07:32:05 -!- holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:32:45 frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:33:02 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:34:13 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:35 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 07:38:27 mrSpec [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 07:38:39 Hi 07:39:34 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-126-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:44 holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:57 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:40:03 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 07:41:23 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:41:36 -!- frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:41:55 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 07:43:54 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 07:47:14 appletizer [i=a@82-32-122-46.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:48:33 pilot1123 [n=admin@82.177.197.4] has joined #lisp 07:49:13 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:23 hello 07:49:27 Reaver_1 [n=m@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:51:19 -!- rcy [n=rcy@S01060002553240a8.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:51:41 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178062042.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:53:20 Hi fusss 07:55:03 good morning all 07:55:32 Mornin' 07:55:56 hi 07:56:02 manuel_ [n=manuel@tecov6133.teco.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 07:57:58 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:58:15 -!- holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:59:05 _9david [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 08:01:42 -!- pcalcado [n=pcalcado@51.068.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [] 08:01:56 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 08:02:27 holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:35 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.91.152] has joined #lisp 08:03:36 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:05:16 anyone know of a good tool for prototyping site/app user interface? i'm using a graphics editor, adding layers for each new item, but it's allot of cutting and deleting 08:05:41 fusss: if it's really a prototype, I like to use glade 08:06:13 fusss: besides that, I simply draw on paper or tablet 08:06:25 yeah? actually, you're right. all the widgets can have corresponding web elements. thanks :-) 08:07:00 you have a tablet? i might invest in one soon. are you an illustrator or something? 08:07:33 fusss: I bought it out of pure interest 08:07:43 i understand :-) 08:08:44 fwiw, i found the Open Office "base" tool great for making quick business apps. you never know what useful things you can find in "boring" tools and applications. 08:08:46 fusss: I personally found it to be very handy, but more apps should be useable on a tablet. I mostly use xournal in tablet-mode (for about anything I have to do) 08:09:00 heh, who would've thought 08:09:33 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:13:25 -!- Reaver_1 [n=m@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has left #lisp 08:15:29 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 08:15:29 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:15:51 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:13 thats an interesting question 08:16:26 i think we needs something similar to what ms has for xaml interfaces 08:16:30 sparkle or whatever it is called 08:17:53 holycow: couldn't find much about it 08:18:36 visio is great making pictures of linux systems :-) 08:19:00 -!- ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.91.152] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:19:13 was supposed to be something like fireworks from adobe but allowed users to just hook into program calls so designers could design uis and developers just did code 08:19:21 and exposed an api via callbacks or similar 08:19:30 i can't remember now, i'd haveto look it up, i read about it 08:19:48 like what templates did for web programming? 08:19:57 thats pretty much it yes 08:20:14 there is also Dia; for making O'Reilly books and ovepriced cluster designs ;-) 08:20:18 Separating logic from presentation is always good. 08:20:26 fusss, heh 08:21:09 like what glade is all about? 08:21:24 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 08:21:40 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 08:22:15 holycow: I just want to say that that description perfectly fits glade. I assume you know why it would be better (support would be a good answer -_-) 08:22:17 yeah, but perhaps with less ugly involved. I don't like one-off code generators. 08:23:14 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:45 madnificent: indeed, think of the tool i'm describing as glade + gimp + inscape 08:24:07 i've been kidding my self with the idea of learning lisp and coding up this magic application called 'blank slate' 08:24:14 the idea is you are presented with a blank page 08:24:15 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:24:23 and to the app we/me/everyone build addons 08:24:35 the app should be able to handle raster and vector tools simultaneously 08:24:40 everything grouped layer based 08:24:45 cmyk from the start 08:24:57 and to that you keep on adding 08:25:01 add a 3d module for 3d 08:25:08 add a compisiting module for compositing 08:25:10 etc. 08:25:11 lol 08:25:22 ah .... if i only had a 100 mil to blow 08:25:28 holycow: feel free to start coding :) 08:26:17 madnificent: lol! getting over the non pgrammer learning to code bit is the biggeest hurdle 08:26:18 heh 08:30:38 -!- holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 08:31:42 merlincorey [n=merlin@ip65-46-14-94.z14-46-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:25 holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:57 i have seen people produce magnificent things with very little knowledge of programming 08:36:16 engineers get by with really primitive tools 08:36:21 It's the vision that counts. 08:36:59 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:37:19 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has joined #lisp 08:37:55 how many competent programmers do you see standing around waiting for "ideas", or rather domain knowledge of some field 08:37:59 well i'm not exactly a dumbass, i've spent my time punting around various scripting languages, environments and even a few real programming languages 08:38:35 lisp is the only thing that inspires me and i'm hoping that i can maybe make some headway towards some of these things 08:38:59 fusss: thats actually very good point 08:39:07 if you want to see programmer incompetence in coming up with useful ideas, just look at people starting "social networking" companies and twitter clones. 08:39:38 lol 08:39:56 ah man, thoughts after my own heart 08:40:30 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:41:17 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 08:41:34 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA711.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:42:13 antoni [n=antoni@17.pool85-53-14.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 08:42:16 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:43:02 it's always safer to write tools for other programmers, because that's what you know best and the target audience doesn't have high expectations on usability. they will actually get a BOOK on how to use your crap. 08:44:47 really? selling stuff to programmers sounds harder to me than selling facebook or youtube clones 08:44:56 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:45:36 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:51 -!- antoni [n=antoni@17.pool85-53-14.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Client Quit] 08:48:06 antoni [n=antoni@17.pool85-53-14.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 08:49:35 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 08:51:26 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.169] has joined #lisp 08:51:53 they're the two extreme points of a continuum, imho. in the middle are allot of useful solutions that need specific domain knowledge and can't be solved until software hackers work closely with competent people who have expertise in those domains. 08:53:49 programmers are attracted to web fads because they're themselves the first users; you can see and appreciate ajax tricks and marvel at what "ecmascript" has become capable of (plus the huge quick payout factor, if you make it) 08:54:41 a lot 08:54:49 on the topic of writing tools for other programmers, /me grabs a cuppa while waiting for his compiler to finish a tiny function 08:56:15 how many programmers have the time or resources, say, to sit down with diplomats and come up with something like "git over ssh" for disseminating and sharing documents securely? throw in search and archiving and you have an attractive solution. 08:56:56 jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:57:09 3 minutes and 17 GB consed... Too bad I have to present this in 6 hours. 08:57:18 fusss: thats a hell of a fucking idea 08:57:20 wow 08:57:29 pkhuong, much data. what is it? 08:57:32 i live in Washington DC :-) 08:57:35 brb 08:57:58 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBB444.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:58:00 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:58:41 aquateen [n=chris@c-24-18-14-164.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:48 tic: 512 statements. I think it's the loop finding magic that really eats a lot of resources. 09:00:01 pkhuong, peep-hole optimization or what's the larger problem? 09:00:17 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 09:02:57 tic: take a bunch of unordered statements, reorder them for streamingness, find loops, do some CSE and other simple stuff on the loop bodies, and then a regular backend. 09:03:36 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:06:39 ontabeaum [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 09:06:54 -!- stoned [n=stoned@unaffiliated/stoned] has left #lisp 09:08:16 -!- montabeau [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:09:10 -!- antoni [n=antoni@17.pool85-53-14.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Client Quit] 09:09:29 antoni [n=antoni@17.pool85-53-14.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 09:09:49 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-205.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:10:45 -!- antoni [n=antoni@17.pool85-53-14.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Client Quit] 09:13:40 ntabeaumo [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 09:14:20 pkhuong, nifty. where are you presenting it? 09:15:28 frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:16:09 tic: term project. 09:18:05 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:18:16 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:19:31 -!- te [i=tao@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ed3a216b1fcfcd05] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:20:19 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:20:53 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:23:39 -!- bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:23:55 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:28:31 frontier2 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:28:37 kiuma [i=4d5de922@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e16dc334db71c752] has joined #lisp 09:28:52 hello lispers 09:28:53 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@dhcp-47251.stud.phys.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 09:30:08 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-205.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 09:30:30 -!- ontabeaum [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:30:34 yello kiuma 09:31:32 -!- pilot1123 [n=admin@82.177.197.4] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:32:47 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:33:11 hey kiuma 09:35:21 -!- _9david [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:36:08 lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp373.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:39:22 frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:41:00 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:41:14 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:41:24 _ace4016_ [i=ace4016@76.168.248.118] has joined #lisp 09:43:46 vtl [n=user@r10ni46.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 09:44:13 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:44:50 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:45:54 -!- frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:07 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 09:46:33 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:46:36 -!- _ace4016_ is now known as ace4016 09:47:32 beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has joined #lisp 09:47:36 Good afternoon. 09:47:53 hi beach 09:47:59 heya, beach 09:48:03 Hey! 09:48:14 -!- frontier2 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:49:13 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 09:49:27 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 09:49:57 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-205.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:52:49 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.168.88] has joined #lisp 10:02:53 -!- rumbleca [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:03:03 rumbleca [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:26 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:08:43 frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 10:10:04 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:10:59 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:13:17 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:14:07 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:15:47 -!- fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:25:26 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.168.88] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 10:25:58 So why are things so quiet here these days? Are people doing real work or something? 10:26:53 -!- lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp373.studby.uio.no] has quit ["leaving"] 10:28:31 real work here. christmas for various others, I assume 10:28:35 But I think it also has something to do with the fact that various regulars disappeared over the last few years. 10:29:06 Like Xach, emarsden? 10:29:41 Right. It isn't the same without Xach! 10:29:49 Very true. 10:31:11 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 10:31:25 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:31:25 *tic* does real work, Buildbot hacking. 10:31:51 Or dan_b (lost to skating years ago), Xof (not lost, but quiet), gilberth (twice a year or so), ... 10:32:22 lichtblau: moore33 as well 10:32:23 _skating_ over computing? can't you combine? :) 10:32:31 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 10:33:07 -!- elurin` [n=user@85.99.65.141] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:33:30 lost, quiet, what is difference? 10:33:50 I wrote a todo list out on my office wall the other day 10:34:00 items 8-11 are lisp-related 10:34:13 so, only seven impossible things to do before lisp hacking 10:34:16 What's the order? 10:34:29 Ah, decreasing importance! 10:34:44 yeah :-/ 10:35:15 Xof: did you announce the good news about the article here? 10:35:21 I did not 10:35:28 Oh? 10:35:44 OK, Xof and I have a journal article about Gsharp accepted for publication. 10:35:50 in French! 10:36:50 -!- Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:37:00 Xof: they all fainted... 10:37:01 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1A01.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:37:17 Xof: I wonder whether it was from disbelief or joy. 10:38:07 joy of disbelief 10:38:17 hi guys. how do I abort execution in SLIME? I think i did a slight infinite recursion... 10:38:20 C-c C-c 10:38:39 "slight"? 10:38:57 beach: slightly infinite, yes 10:39:22 nikodemus: since you're here. I have a git repository with a branch in it that I want to replicate elsewhere. On that elsewhere, I have a git repository that is basically the same as the other one but without the branch I want to preserve 10:39:25 what do I do? :-) 10:39:42 beach: that is infinite * (10 + i) ^ 151 , you should've known! 10:39:46 *Xof* is still in "git might eat all my data and detatch my HEAD" mode 10:40:01 madnificent: exactly 10:40:19 in fact, the thing converges when the laptop dies of old age, or the user does something nasty to slime 10:40:29 so it's not really infinite, anyway 10:40:34 Xof, but until then, it's like a honey ride in butter lane! 10:40:37 Xof: so, simply copy your repos to a safe place when you're trying something new ;) (that's how I learned it) 10:40:42 Xof: You wouldn't want your head detatched. 10:40:49 Xof: first step: do the two repositories know about each other? 10:41:08 Xof: for example, go to elsewhere and do "git remote" to tell it where to fetch things from 10:41:20 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:41:30 beach, [article] cool. (I didn't faint, I did Work(tm) for once) 10:41:50 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:42:04 Xof: once you've got a remote, "git fetch REMOTENAME" fetches everything from it in a completely safe manner 10:43:07 Xof: fetched branches are called REMOTENAME/BRANCHNAME 10:43:09 Xof: Afterwards, "git checkout -b BRANCHNAME REMOTENAME/BRANCHNAME" will set up a tracking branch of the same name and check it out. 10:43:14 (end of tutorial) 10:43:38 thanks 10:43:56 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:45:51 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7373.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:11 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-126-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:47:15 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:04 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.91.152] has joined #lisp 10:50:07 (git sometimes reminds me of that spoof O'Reilly cover for Perl 6) 10:50:39 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:52:29 which I suspect is more a reflection of my declining ability to internalize complex systems than of the actualité... 10:52:50 git is really not at all complex. it might help to read up on the underlying concepts firstr. 10:54:14 Any tips on writing a technical presentation in 4 hours? 10:56:09 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 10:56:20 pkhuong: what about? 10:56:32 [this is my field here...] 10:56:51 pkhuong: as in slides, or as in a report? 10:57:15 slides (: The report will just have to be handed in `on the 22nd'. 10:57:29 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:57:46 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.136.74] has joined #lisp 10:57:48 pkhuong: For programming, I know no longer make slides, but show them in real time. 10:57:54 pkhuong: no preparation! 10:58:35 about my compiler. I can recycle introductory stuff from the project proposal, but running the compiler itself takes a couple minutes on realistic programs. 10:58:54 pkhuong: show some code from it? 10:59:15 just avoid the gratuitous clipart :) 10:59:24 pkhuong: one plan is to have few slides with keywords on them, and then refer to other, existing material, such as pictures, code, algorithms, demos, etc. 10:59:25 beach: I should; there's some fun stuff in there. 10:59:31 pkhuong: What did you even write a compiler for? 11:00:12 cYmen: a low level numeric-computation-oriented language. 11:00:15 tic: interestingly, I tried that first, and came to the conclusion that it was utterly unhelpful (for me) to help me understand how to use it effectively 11:00:57 pkhuong: if you're latex-happy, use beamer, only put material that you want to talk about on the slides, count approximately 2-2.5 minutes per slide, do not be tempted by the bullet points 11:01:03 pkhuong: Is it an exercise in compsci or does it have a practial purpose? 11:01:05 Xof, *nod* I guess a bit of both (1-2-3 and underlying concepts) is useful to get git. 11:02:00 (timing estimate obviously depends if you have a lot to say on a particular slide) 11:02:10 cYmen: it beats gcc on a well-chosen instance; the generic codegen sucks. 11:02:39 tabeaumon [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 11:02:39 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.140.213] has quit [Operation timed out] 11:02:42 Xof: what do you mean re bullet points? 11:02:49 pkhuong: And what is that instance about? 11:03:10 pkhuong: a style of presentation involves having slides like: 11:03:12 cYmen: dense matrix multiplication. 11:03:12 * we did foo; 11:03:16 * and then we did bar; 11:03:19 * and bar was good. 11:03:19 pkhuong: only 3 hours and 50 minutes left. 11:03:20 also, don't use the dreaded page transition effects; they're just annoying 11:03:41 this is a terrible way to give a presentation, because you tend to end up saying exactly what's on the slide 11:03:49 which the audience has already read, some time ago 11:04:26 see also: http://norvig.com/Gettysburg/ 11:04:54 Xof: read some time ago, too late to reread it now. 11:05:17 thanks for the hints. Shouldn't be too bad. 11:05:34 oh yeah, another piece of advice: prepare your slides early; it always takes longer than you think 11:05:42 (unless you have a previous presentation to cannibalize from) 11:05:51 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:07:14 Xof: What happened to "repetition is good"? 11:07:29 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf2c9.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 11:07:32 Hello. Which request methods does hunchentoot support? 11:07:33 it lost to "don't assume your audience is asleep, because they will be if you do" 11:08:01 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 11:08:32 cYmen: what kind of repetition? Of material in the slides? 11:09:51 beach: Xof suggested not putting on the slide what is to be said... 11:11:16 I can't find anything about PUT in the hunchentoot docs. 11:12:32 cl-webdav implements a PUT operation, I believe 11:14:09 lichtblau: Oh, wow. I didn't know Webdav existed. 11:14:19 lichtblau: thanks 11:14:26 cYmen: what he suggested was, don't confuse slide-reading with presenting 11:15:22 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:15:40 ; in: DEFPACKAGE :MCCLIM.SYSTEM ; (ASDF0::DEFPACKAGE :MCCLIM.SYSTEM (:USE :ASDF :CL)) ; caught COMMON-LISP:STYLE-WARNING ; undefined function: DEFPACKAGE 11:16:02 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:16:11 rumbleca_ [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:09 okay, works in a fresh SBCL that doesn't have the cross-compiler loaded 11:17:11 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@dhcp-47251.stud.phys.ntnu.no] has quit [] 11:17:27 -!- sisface [n=boy@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:17:32 Are there any pitfalls I should be aware of when compiling code normally in an SBCL that happens to also have its cross compiler loaded? 11:18:39 Hmm, XCVB. 11:18:53 That should complicate things for Mudballs. 11:18:55 I've already taught it to STFU about non-standard-chars, those allegedly suspicious uses of ordinary #+sbcl in lisp files, use of normal sb-foo packages, ... 11:18:56 The above error makes me thing that something else might be going on regarding packages that I might have missed. 11:19:01 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:19:01 -!- ntabeaumo [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:19:09 *think 11:19:25 beach: you spend years waiting for an asdf-replacement, then two come along at once :) 11:20:53 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:21:44 rsynnott: i don't see why they can't be complementary, mudballs seems more of a replacement for asdf-install 11:23:22 locklace: AFAIU, he had to replace ASDF with his mudballs defsystem to make the mudballs installer possible, so it's not just an asdf-install replacement 11:23:41 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F7F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:50 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7373.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:25:20 (I think you can't ask ASDF for dependencies reliably without actually being in the process of loading stuff already. For example, clbuild only guesses stuff, and usually get it right enough to be useful.) 11:26:53 (trying to get http straight) So firefox can't make PUT requests itself, but I could have a form on my hunchentoot web page trigger a function that calls drakma with :method :put on my own server? 11:28:09 -!- jogla [n=jonathan@s15249512.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:28:22 I must be misunderstanding. you want your web server to contact itself?! 11:28:41 For unit testing purposes? 11:28:56 There must be something I'm missing, because I don't understand how to get a web browser to make a PUT request. 11:29:10 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-50-2.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:29:15 By using a form, I think. 11:29:20 vy: no, to create resources on the web server 11:29:31 (which may or may not be really misguided) 11:29:50 Oh, PUT.. no, browsers usually do POST. 11:31:41 oudeis [n=oudeis@89.0.140.237.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:29 -!- rumbleca [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:33:40 So is there a way to feed a PUT request to my webserver from inside a web page without the contacting-itself thing? 11:33:53 Yes, if you're willing to use javascript to do it. 11:33:57 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89.0.140.237.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:34:04 lichtblau: well, i figure we just lock fare and sean in a room for a weekend and when they come out everything will be integrated 11:34:09 I suppose I could use parenscript. 11:34:36 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181133214.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:37:21 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 11:37:28 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 11:37:38 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 11:40:25 So you just want to use PUT to achieve a RESTful design? I don't know whether FORMs and/or XMLHttpRequest support the method PUT in which browser. There are definitions found for "numereous", perhaps you mean: 11:41:03 sorry, copy&paste error. s/There are.*// 11:41:16 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:41:31 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:43:56 older Webbrowsers could PUT files, but that's gone mostly 11:44:35 used sometimes when the Webbrowser had a page editor and then PUT back changed pages 11:46:30 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:47:00 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:47:00 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:47:51 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:50 Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:53 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 11:56:50 -!- _CitizenKane__ [n=quassel@edit57.daily.umn.edu] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:00:38 -!- vtl [n=user@r10ni46.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:01:56 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:02:03 _CitizenKane__ [n=quassel@edit57.daily.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 12:02:15 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:41 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 12:03:23 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 12:04:17 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:06:14 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:38 vtl [n=user@r10ni46.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 12:08:13 -!- netaust1n [n=austinsm@68-191-51-69.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [] 12:13:08 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7373.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:05 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 12:19:53 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf2c9.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:20:49 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.169] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:22:44 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:26:48 c|mell [n=cmell@cad4e7-166.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:31:15 -!- beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has left #lisp 12:34:45 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 12:35:00 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:38:50 pcalcado [n=pcalcado@120.16.217.182] has joined #lisp 12:39:05 -!- pcalcado [n=pcalcado@120.16.217.182] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:39:40 pcalcado [n=pcalcado@120.16.217.182] has joined #lisp 12:39:50 frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:40:08 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:27 -!- frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:45:38 mulligan [n=user@e178031051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:27 mulligan` [n=user@e178031051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:49:34 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:51:52 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:52:33 schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-aa1c7e67369b2c0a] has joined #lisp 12:54:11 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 12:54:39 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.169] has joined #lisp 12:55:06 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7373.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:55:42 hah, symbolics.com was the Internet's first .com domain? Interesting... 12:57:02 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.188.104] has joined #lisp 13:00:43 frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:00:48 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:03:28 ben_m [n=Ben@85-127-15-193.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:04:19 Hi there :) How do I convert a number into the corresponding character (by ascii value)? 13:04:48 (char nr) ? (not sure) 13:05:13 Nope :/ 13:05:39 <_3b> code-char? 13:05:53 Yep, perfect. Thank you. 13:06:03 <_3b> only works if you use a lisp that uses ascii characters though 13:06:30 ben_m: you can use (apropos "char") in the repl to find stuff like that :) 13:06:34 well, seriously speaking for ascii range it is going to hold true practically always 13:06:52 it's not like anyone really uses ebdic internally ... 13:06:55 weirdo [i=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:07:52 anybody familiar with tinaa ? I have "There is no class named NIL" when trying to call (tinaa:document-system 'package 'claw-as #P"/home/kiuma/temp/clawdocs/claw-as/") 13:07:52 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:08:02 elurin` [n=user@85.99.71.86] has joined #lisp 13:08:15 the package is already loaded! 13:11:11 breinded [n=nonamme@h-68-167-70-93.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:39 robyonrails [n=roby@host14-155-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:13:24 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 13:13:44 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:14:19 jollygood_ [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 13:15:39 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:15:45 kiuma, there is an advice floating in the air to avoid using tinaa.. 13:15:51 -!- holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:16:08 mweber should know more on why 13:16:29 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120121]"] 13:16:31 deepfire: yes why, and what would you suggest ? 13:17:46 I need a tool that extracts documentation from my system into html 13:17:57 no matter what 13:20:04 kiuma: edi weitz has a thing that does that 13:20:10 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:20:11 it's fairly basic, but works 13:20:20 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:20:35 kiuma: atdoc 13:20:53 kiuma: or documentation-template 13:21:23 kiuma, I'm leaning to http://www.lichteblau.com/atdoc/doc/ 13:22:36 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:22:38 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:22:41 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 13:22:54 silenius [n=jl@yath1870.zar.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:58 *l_a_m* likes atdoc 13:22:59 The only problem with it is that it's docstring markup is too intrusive for my tastes. An obvious price for the nice output, though. 13:23:06 its 13:23:24 for me too, and the output is ugly 13:23:39 what about albert ? 13:23:40 frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:23:58 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:24:41 H4ns wrote something with unintrusive docstring syntax (only the standard CASE for arguments is requred), but I have not seen the output. 13:24:54 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.169] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:25:28 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.169] has joined #lisp 13:26:52 I think I'll give a try to albert 13:26:59 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:27:12 crod [n=cmell@cb8a61-032.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:27:39 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:29:28 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cad4e7-166.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:09 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:52 kiuma: there's also cldoc and the texinfo-docstrings-with-html-output thing 13:31:16 luis: I don't know if it was the first but I think it was the oldest that was still around. 13:31:38 r2q2: apparently it was the first 13:32:37 Neat. 13:32:49 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 13:33:55 hello 13:34:06 hi fe[nl]ix 13:34:13 hi kiuma 13:34:48 mogunus pasted "authentication with HT" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72522 13:35:11 Hi. I'm trying to figure out how to get basic authentication over SSL. 13:35:18 DO I need to start a new server for that? 13:35:21 -!- frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:37:18 No, I don't think that atdoc's syntax is obvious price for its nice output. In fact, I'm working on the refactoring of texinfo-docstrings that would enable atdoc stylesheets to be used without atdoc's syntax. 13:37:46 benny [n=benny@i577A0579.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:53 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 13:41:34 -!- tabeaumon [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:42:10 tabeaumon [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 13:43:47 -!- carbocalm [i=carbocal@69-196-171-169.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:44:26 carbocalm [i=carbocal@69-196-171-169.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:40 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181133214.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:45:24 -!- vtl [n=user@r10ni46.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:47:49 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:21 Can you run .{fasl,lisp} files somehow, without starting an interpreter? Something like sbcl --just-run-a-main-method-or-something file.fasl :D 13:49:42 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:49:43 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:36 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 13:51:13 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Toplevel-Options.html#Toplevel-Options 13:51:19 ben_m: you can pipe the file to most lisp interpreters 13:51:21 -!- pcalcado [n=pcalcado@120.16.217.182] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:51:31 or pipe a load command to 'em 13:53:31 ben_m: what's your goal? 13:54:46 deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has joined #lisp 13:56:19 would it be unethical to rename the clisp binary when giving it someone? i just don't want them to kill it when they see it in the process list. 13:56:38 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:57:10 StorageBridge vs "clisp" 13:57:54 gpl doesn't mind that, i hope 13:58:24 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 13:58:42 frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:59:55 vtl [n=user@r10ni46.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 14:00:46 -!- aquateen [n=chris@c-24-18-14-164.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:03:21 fusss: creating a link is probably enough 14:03:24 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:03:43 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:03:55 hmmm 14:05:43 jestocost [n=cmell@cb8a6a-159.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:06:12 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a61-032.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:08:35 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:48 rename it to 'kernel'? 14:09:20 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:27 frontier2 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:09:42 might trigger Norton; too many worms named krnl32.dll 14:10:11 -!- umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 14:10:58 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:11:10 -!- alinrus [n=root@92.82.29.69] has left #lisp 14:23:10 -!- frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:24:44 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1176023246.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:27:51 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:24 lichtblau, very nice! 14:29:24 frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:31:21 hey, the other day I saw a website with some lisp code listings and an interesting style of code highlighting, where putting your cursor over a subexpression would cause the background color of the expression's test to change and highlight the expression 14:31:40 cads: good for you 14:31:50 paste.lisp.org does that 14:32:02 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:32:03 cmm, thanks! 14:32:17 .. I was looking for the site again and couldn't find it.. 14:32:17 crod [n=cmell@cb8abf-160.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:33:14 beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has joined #lisp 14:33:22 Good evening. 14:33:40 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:33:42 hello beach 14:34:15 djwonk [n=djwonk@216-188-225-241.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:30 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@cb8a6a-159.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:34:43 -!- djwonk [n=djwonk@216-188-225-241.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:35:18 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:36:20 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 14:38:25 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:38:29 frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:38:37 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 14:38:41 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:00 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:41:15 -!- tabeaumon [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:43:13 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:43:57 frontier3 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:44:05 jdz: you can just not respond instead of being a dick 14:44:15 that is an option I mean, you aren't obligated to comment 14:45:11 ltbarcly: you know you can keep your opinion to yourself, right? (that's not a question, you don't have to comment) 14:45:20 -!- frontier2 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:45:31 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 14:45:40 jdz: I realize you probably are afraid of people in real life so you take your frustrations out on the internet, but it does a disservice to the community 14:45:53 this isn't your personal shooting gallery 14:46:01 -!- millij is now known as quamaretto 14:47:57 ltbarcly: i can easily see that you are fundamentally incapable to accept the fact that people have different viewpoints and not everybody who responds sarcastically are trying to be dicks. but you are not the only one. 14:49:04 fair enough 14:49:39 ltbarcly: did you have another nick in the past? 14:49:44 nope 14:49:59 -!- ths__ [n=ths@X64dc.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:52:11 with this i wish you all a merry christmas and please smile more and try to look into the bright side of life. and smile more. 14:52:19 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has quit ["Somebody rebooted me"] 14:52:19 ltbarcly: new here, then? 14:54:56 -!- frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:55:30 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:56:49 fwiw, i caught my 12 year old nephew trolling a video game forum where he had worked up a crowd of enemies responding to him in voluminous essays. put allot of things in perspective for me :-) 14:57:13 Merry lambda lispers! 14:57:39 I mean 14:58:03 (lambda (x) (string-append "merry" x "lispers")) 14:59:07 (concatenate 'string ..) 15:00:24 that's (str (conc "merry " "christmas")) for cl-who users :-S 15:00:49 -!- Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:01:55 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:03:17 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:04:51 frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:05:03 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:06:07 fusss: oh, those things make c.l.l look positively cuddly 15:07:00 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.169] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:07:13 -!- frontier3 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:08:58 edi knows better, the short names make cl-who htmlish and readable 15:09:32 fusss: the video game forums, not cl-who 15:09:56 hahaha, yeah, if you frequent them that is 15:10:54 my little brother is an enthusiast 15:12:47 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:14:05 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:14:10 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 15:14:58 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:15:14 cmm: no, ltbarcly has been around for almost two years. 15:15:49 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:16:04 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 15:17:05 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 15:17:29 -!- adeht is now known as _adeht 15:17:34 cmm: that said, I don't know what utterance of jdz's that ltbarcly is referring to. But I guess it doesn't matter. 15:21:12 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 15:21:34 frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:21:38 -!- beach [n=user@203.210.248.212] has left #lisp 15:22:50 beach: "good for you", didn't come off nice 15:24:39 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 15:25:34 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:26:09 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:26:37 AfterDeath [i=icxcnika@unaffiliated/afterdeath] has joined #lisp 15:26:56 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-50-2.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:28:46 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 15:28:55 ksergio [n=sgarcia@mail.nuecho.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:00 -!- hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:29:24 THO|Away [n=Helper@wikimedia/Thehelpfulone] has joined #lisp 15:31:42 [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.24] has joined #lisp 15:31:42 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:32:05 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:40 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:35:14 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:27 frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:35:35 Übermensch does lisp, http://globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/sicp.jpg 15:35:54 *sigh*, the crap one finds in an rss feed :-/ 15:36:02 -!- frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:36:17 my eyes! 15:36:50 Well, there's (muscle) structure on the cover, and you can interpret that cover in many ways. :) 15:37:34 fusss: is that a mock cover? 15:37:47 (there's an old Forth book which is considerably worse) 15:37:51 -!- THO|Away [n=Helper@wikimedia/Thehelpfulone] has left #lisp 15:38:12 http://globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/forth_on_the_atari.jpg 15:38:16 oh, same website! 15:38:28 does the author have a collection of absurd book covers? 15:38:44 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:38:47 -!- AfterDeath [i=icxcnika@unaffiliated/afterdeath] has left #lisp 15:38:54 he makes them to "improve" the books 15:39:23 tacky, early 90s BBS "art" 15:39:41 they should feature those in The Big Bang Theory 15:40:01 ah, all except the forth one are fakes, it seems :( 15:40:35 the forth one is the best tho 15:40:58 can't fake genuine authenticity 15:44:51 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:44:52 -!- [1]edon is now known as edon 15:47:11 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:47:36 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:48:11 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit ["Going down to repair databases!"] 15:53:24 -!- mulligan` [n=user@e178031051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:53:33 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.188.104] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:53:44 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178031051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:54:17 -!- schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-aa1c7e67369b2c0a] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 15:56:35 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:56:35 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:57:14 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:16 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:57:33 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 16:01:47 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:04:46 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:06:11 willb [n=wibenton@wireless68.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:12:45 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:14:43 rpg [n=rpg@75.146.46.193] has joined #lisp 16:16:58 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:17:00 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:17:19 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.210.27] has joined #lisp 16:17:40 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:17:58 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 16:20:19 milanj [n=milan@91.150.101.6] has joined #lisp 16:21:11 hey 16:21:42 what's the asdf way for using a readtable for the whole system? 16:22:09 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:22:09 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-234-96.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:22:10 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:14 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 16:23:35 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:24:00 hey I'm looking at this lisp tutorial. It's talking about set operations on lists right now. It mentions that Lisp implements "difference L1 L2". SBCL complains that difference is undefined. Am I missing something? IS the tutorial wrong? 16:24:12 weirdo: see ironclad 16:24:21 thank you 16:24:24 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-181-77-121.cncdnh.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:28 Hello all. 16:24:32 hello nyef 16:24:37 hi 16:24:48 Anything interesting happening? 16:25:36 int80: url of the tutorial? 16:25:42 weirdo: I think the fashionable way is (or should be) to avoid doing that, because it doesn't integrate well with slime. editor-hints has an IN-READTABLE macro that fixes that issue. 16:25:50 http://www.cs.sfu.ca/CC/310/pwfong/Lisp/1/tutorial1.html 16:26:01 Under the heading "Using Lists as Sets" 16:26:15 Haven't actually tried it yet, but it sounds like the right thing. http://common-lisp.net/project/editor-hints/ 16:26:54 the raytracing video gives lisp a bad image :/ 16:27:02 the guy's really unproductive with his SLIME 16:27:09 nyef: I'm toying with SBCL running as a cross compiler to generate SWF files. It's not very interesting just yet, but could become interesting if I get the time to work on it more. 16:27:22 Neat. 16:27:36 I've always liked the idea of using SBCL as a cross-compiler for non-lispy things. 16:27:40 int80, I think its a typo, there is a set-difference, afaik 16:28:02 thanks, I'll try it out. there's a union, I just tried. 16:28:45 eval: (set-difference '(1 2 3 4 5) '(3 4)) 16:28:45 yeah set-difference exists 16:29:11 wasn't there an eval bot on this chan ? 16:29:35 maybe minion can do that 16:29:47 there is no eval bot 16:30:15 no, and there are voices in this channel heavily against it, so I'm assuming it won't be here for some time 16:30:46 yeah, it's prolly a huge security hole 16:30:52 madnificent: what is the rationale ? 16:31:19 hey, if you volunteer to run it... 16:32:27 smolyn [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:33 kuwabara: I believe the main reasons were security, channel noise ( (loop for 1 to 1000 do (format T "w00t~%")) and the fact that most problems people have cannot be solved by a one-liner). 16:32:35 ok, so it's mainly a security concern ? 16:32:50 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:32:54 I thought it was mainly a noise issue 16:33:12 the eval bot on #perl does not generate noise 16:33:19 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:33:20 Almost anything that I do that's only one or two lines is either evaluable via M-: in emacs, or an environmental inquiry anyway. 16:33:20 if anyone uses it, it must 16:33:37 Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-418165.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:33:46 it probably has hard limit on many things (output size, time of execution, number of call, etc). 16:33:46 hefner: if it were like that, then we'd be able to put it in a separate channel 16:34:10 anyway, if you can't run clisp in a terminal in no more than an extra keystroke or two versus typing into your irc client, your operating system has failed its job 16:34:18 madnificent: At which point it wouldn't be an evalbot in #lisp... 16:34:42 nyef: but would be about as handy to show newcomers how to do things ^_^ 16:34:55 kapuzineralex [n=kapuzine@mnch-5d8671d2.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 16:34:59 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:26 Make a web page evaluator instead, then. :-P 16:35:50 nyef: common lisp built on top of JS would be rather cool 16:35:58 *ksergio* shudders 16:36:15 Common Lisp on JavaScript? Yeah, you have fun with that. 16:37:06 -!- kapuzineralex [n=kapuzine@mnch-5d8671d2.pool.einsundeins.de] has left #lisp 16:38:23 well file-access etc would be impossible (unless that'd be on a distant server), but most of CL can be written in CL itself, so it should be doable. With parenscript it might even become fun (probably not) 16:39:33 As I said, you have fun with that. :-P 16:39:57 *nyef* has a brief bit of fun with LOGICAL-PATHNAME-TRANSLATIONS. 16:40:16 nyef: wait, I didn't have to interpret it as: "No, that is not possible." ? 16:40:42 No, you didn't. The correct interpretation is "I don't think that's remotely worth doing". 16:40:55 point taken 16:40:57 But if you -do- do it, we'll give you credit for hack value. 16:41:01 scheme-compiled-to-js would be more feasible 16:41:22 as well as an object system, cells, mapping to DOM etc... 16:41:36 weirdo: parenscript has a basis to work on... 16:41:59 not worth it, more stuff to rewrite than keep 16:42:22 -!- smolyn [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 16:42:38 but once major browsers (firefox, opera, google chrome) have js-to-native compilers it'd be a good stuff to have 16:42:48 database access could be done with RPC to CL 16:42:51 say, json-rpc 16:43:16 ... (asdf-install:install :clx) doesn't work on SBCL 1.0.23? (compile-file bitched while compiling #). 16:43:22 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 16:43:27 i'd rather much see a widget-style library for JS/scheme than this butchery right now 16:43:45 And if anyone says that that's been the case for more than a month, I'm going to be upset. 16:44:10 nyef, works for me on .54, update clx maybe? 16:44:22 yes, way more than a month 16:44:25 Umm... Hello? ASDF-INSTALL? 16:44:27 clx 0.7.3 16:45:06 Pulls the latest from cliki, 0.7.3. 16:45:18 nyef: I think you just volunteered to make a new tarball release of Xof's clx 16:45:53 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has left #lisp 16:46:16 That's... not impressive. 16:46:54 Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:28 nyef: off the top of your head, how important would you say it is to emulate undocumented opcodes for common nes software? 16:49:08 Not at all. Just remember that the D flag doesn't do anything, and emulate the documented instructions, and you should be fine for most/all good dumps. 16:49:36 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.6.160] has joined #lisp 16:49:46 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:49:55 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Client Quit] 16:51:01 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c9f.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 16:52:48 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:52:51 Hrm... looks like my 1.0.11 install has a clx available to it. Guess I'll just keep using that for now. 16:53:18 nyef: was it a warning or an error? sbcl complained about old-sk00l eval-when situations in clx for me the other day 16:53:26 and stopped the compile, which I found odd 16:53:38 not sure why that suddenly became a more serious warning 16:53:43 and morning folks 16:53:46 ISTR it was a warning during a macroexpand. 16:54:18 int80_h pasted "unreachable code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72531 16:54:36 Ah, "using deprecated SB-SYS:OUTPUT-RAW-BYTES". 16:54:41 "deprecated"? 16:54:53 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:54:57 Ah, okay. 16:55:13 Could someone help me out here? I think I may have screwed up parens placement 16:55:21 *nyef* tries to update his internal spelling dictionary. 16:55:31 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:55:40 also, I'm not sure the line that evaluates member is doing what I want it to do 16:55:52 int80_h: Umm... The second cond clause will only execute if NIL is not NIL. 16:56:40 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7373.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:47 Perhaps you want ((not (member (first L1) L2) (cons ...)) ? 16:56:59 nyef: ah hah. Well, what I want it to do is execute if the first element in L1 is not a member of L2 16:57:09 yeah that looks better 16:59:22 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:56 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@tecov6133.teco.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:00:04 hmm for me it works either the ACCEPT restart or abort and retry 17:00:22 woah, endless recursion 17:00:27 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 17:00:29 *int80_h* looks up how to stop execution 17:00:47 C-c C-c 17:00:53 -!- kiuma [i=4d5de922@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e16dc334db71c752] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:00:59 int80_h: If you're in SLIME and not on windows, C-c C-c should do the trick. 17:01:15 If you're in a terminal window and not on windows, C-c should do the trick. 17:01:18 wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 17:01:36 If you're on windows, killing the SBCL process entirely should do the trick, and if you're in a console window C-c will do just that... 17:01:58 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-108-36.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:35 khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-107-11.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:50 oops. I forgot a base case 17:06:10 khisanth__ [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-108-36.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:22 does anyone do the GPG stuff for asdf-install? 17:06:23 breinded_ [n=nonamme@h-66-167-246-169.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:06 weirdo: rarely. 17:07:36 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177144001.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving..."] 17:07:38 I've got some keys, but most I don't have, and unfortunately, authors even didn't took the steps to publish them it seems. 17:08:14 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-128-155.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:08:27 lispm [n=joswig@e177144001.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:09:05 Probably because it's a nuisance, and the entire idea conflates the notion of cryptographic-verifiable identity with trustworthyness with respect to writing software. 17:09:19 (Do I mean conflates?) 17:09:30 nyef: yes, conflates' ok. 17:09:47 Yes, I do mean conflates (thank you google, and matimago). 17:10:29 -!- khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-107-11.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:12:28 nyef, it conflates those notions only if one believe that the PGP key implies that the software is trustworthy, which is backwards. The right way to approach it is: If the PGP signature matches, nothing can be concluded; if the PGP signature doesn't match, something is probably wrong. 17:12:43 Yeah, okay. 17:13:05 But it's the only real check. 17:13:22 And dependencies are automatically installed as well. 17:13:56 oh, neat. smb3 has ram on it, but not battery backed, so my emulator didn't give it any ram at 0x6000, and it kept resetting itself upon IRQ. 17:14:43 hefner: Ouch. I think the Done Thing if you're not maintaining a database of cart quirks is to always map cart RAM at $6000, and if it's not used, who cares? 17:14:45 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-108-36.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:14:48 -!- khisanth__ is now known as Khisanth 17:14:57 At least, that was the Done Thing back when I was seriously into NES emulation. 17:15:11 Riastradh: well, is asdf-install signed? 17:15:12 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:15:20 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 17:15:48 hefner: You're writing this emulator in Lisp, right? 17:17:04 -!- breinded [n=nonamme@h-68-167-70-93.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:17:10 nyef: hah, no. this is my old C one. I wouldn't think of rewriting it in lisp until I got it working reasonably well. 17:17:14 Atherton [n=atherton@mathesar.kwzs.be] has joined #lisp 17:17:20 Ah. 17:18:05 You can have my old C one to use as a model if you like. The sound isn't that great, and it's a scanline system not a pixel-perfect system, but it ran quite a few games... 17:18:13 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:57 well, that's cheating. :) I rewrote the sound the other day, it's pretty good now (much better documentation than there was 8 years ago..), but my video and timing is terrible 17:19:12 does the code self-modify? 17:19:24 if not, it could compile-to-lisp-to-native (: 17:20:46 I remember when people used to swipe my code to use for their own emulators... and invariably swiped the bits that didn't work well and wrote their own crappy versions of the bits that did work well... 17:20:55 Happened maybe three times. 17:21:24 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-142.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 17:21:48 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-142.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:52 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-142.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 17:23:24 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:26:21 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:52 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177144001.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:27:51 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 17:32:05 -!- saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 17:33:47 saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:36 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:37:22 mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has joined #lisp 17:38:18 -!- saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:38:36 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:39:06 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:34 -!- jollygood_ [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 17:41:03 saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:19 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41:51 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 17:42:51 is cl-html-parse generating some weird circular lists? 17:44:03 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:48:10 -!- gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["leaving"] 17:48:44 how does one go back one screen in slime inspector? 17:49:02 l 17:49:08 use C-h m to find that one out 17:49:09 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7373.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:49:15 thank you 17:49:18 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #lisp 17:49:34 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["See you later"] 17:49:43 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:49:46 now that makes my inspector experience tad easier :) 17:49:52 ;) 17:50:10 just think of it as a weird version of w3m. it gets a lot easier to use then 17:51:17 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:51:32 wow! package inspector kicks, uh, 'butt' 17:51:41 especially the 'group by classification' turned on 17:52:46 why on earth isn't (list :body "foo") a proper list? 17:53:07 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-128-155.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:53:09 it is. 17:53:25 fusss, are you thinking of cons, perhaps? 17:53:35 weirdo: You want really neat, if you're on SBCL, it's possible to define custom inspector behavior for CLOS objects to present a custom description and list of slots. 17:53:43 cl-html-parse is breaking something. i'm not writing these by hand, they're generated. 17:53:58 (it's even an alist, as a matter of fact.) 17:54:03 nyef, isn't a list of slots portable? 17:54:39 nyef, attila did custom inspection for perec :) 17:54:54 "Hide this slot and this one from the inspector, and present this other thing which is actually a slot on an object somewhere else..." 17:55:30 Can also do it for structures, or anything else you can specialize a generic function to. 17:55:54 Ever inspect an ALIEN-VALUE object? 17:56:01 i'm trying to parse the resultant tree as most straight forward as i know how: (defun find-element (element parsed-html) (cond ((null p-h) nil) ((atom p-h) p-h) ((equalp (car p-h) element) ..)) (t (or ))) 17:57:37 -!- V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-febddf00-91.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:58:03 -!- dwave_ [i=dwave@100.84-49-235.nextgentel.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:02:51 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:42 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FA78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:34 schasi [n=schasi@p54A27AA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:27 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:56 -!- vtl [n=user@r10ni46.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:09:22 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 18:13:03 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:15:52 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:21:42 if anyone has gotten either closure-html or cl-html-parse work, please, don't hesitate to fill me in on how to make them work 18:22:19 leadnose [i=leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 18:22:20 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:24:00 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:24:25 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:25 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:25:49 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-138-30.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 18:26:53 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:02 is there a portable interface for flock? 18:27:04 fuss: I have use the franz' html parser, using the pxmlutils package 18:27:29 z0d: cffi? 18:28:19 ksergio: i'm using the cliki version of that and it's been weird. it DOES parse the html well, but traversing the resultant tree has been painful. 18:28:27 mvatki [n=michael@c-24-23-89-19.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:31 -!- Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:28:57 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:32 anyone running ccl? 18:30:32 tcr, memo from deepfire: I'm off linuxland for several hours. I'll try to contact you asap, when I get back. 18:30:46 fusss: hmm.. yes.. but I dont see how could another s-exps representation of html make things better... 18:30:51 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:30:55 stassats: Too low-level. I'm searching for a high level library which works across mutiple implementations 18:30:56 tcr: i run it occasionally 18:31:16 stassats: Could you tell me what it returns for (read-from-string ":(1 2 3)"), please? 18:31:22 sure 18:31:36 UnwashedMeme pasted "chtml example for fusss" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72539 18:32:01 tcr: Error: Reader error: Illegal symbol syntax. 18:32:21 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 18:32:25 stassats: and for "#:(1 2 3)" ? 18:32:32 ahhhhhhhhh 18:32:54 tcr: the same 18:33:03 stassats: e.g. something like (with-flock foo :lock-ex ..) 18:33:07 *fusss* bangs head against keyboard (a soft, gel keyboard) 18:33:10 stassats: Thank you. 18:34:11 does *, **, *** still return the last, second to the last, third to the last output in slime? 18:34:21 fusss: alternatively if you want to get a sax interface to it, define your sax handler, make an instance of it, and then pass that in place of the make-lhtml-builder 18:34:31 fusss: http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/sax.html has some examples 18:34:32 leo2007: yes, why not? 18:34:34 leo2007: yes, it does 18:34:37 UnwashedMeme: thanks a million 18:34:55 UnwashedMeme: i was working with the raw PT class 18:34:55 fusss: the klacks interace is also really nice 18:35:16 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit ["time to go home"] 18:35:17 "It is the 90s, and there is time for klacks"? 18:35:24 stassats: It must do so explicitly. 18:35:25 (parse "foo.html" (make-pt-builder)), then descending down the tree with pt-children and equalp. sucks. 18:35:40 nyef, Roper Klacks? 18:35:59 tic: Was more thinking the video game, KLAX. 18:36:02 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host186.190-137-177.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:36:21 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0DADC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:25 nyef, oh, I was thinking of the character Klacks appearing in the video game TLJ :) 18:36:38 tcr: in a new session, what does * return? It seems to always return 9 for me 18:36:52 -!- rumbleca_ is now known as rumbleca 18:37:14 leo2007: the last result of evaluating something in the reply 18:37:16 *repl 18:37:43 leo2007: It returns NIL for me. Does it matter to you? 18:38:20 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7373.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:23 tcr: no, that's why I was confused by *, **, *** 18:38:43 patmaddox [n=pergesu@wsip-70-168-157-254.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:28 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:40:18 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:40:40 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 18:41:04 josemanuel [n=josemanu@227.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:43:54 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:44:27 billc [n=user@S0106001b63f442be.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:34 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:46:40 Anyone know what happened to the alu wiki? 18:47:01 There's something about it on planet lisp. 18:47:24 Other than that, I don't know... Maybe someone else does? 18:47:41 yeah, but it doesn't explain why it's down or what happened 18:50:13 sisface [n=boy@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:01 i know what happened 18:51:46 but you're part of the conspiracy? 18:51:59 essentially, Carl Shapiro disappeared with all the content and source code. 18:52:41 the ALU wiki stopped being my domain in '05, when i gave it back to the ALU. I was promised that the'd take care of it. 18:52:42 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-17-56-28.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:52:52 the 70s called, they just wanted to inform the ALU guys about the new concepts called "backup", "version control" 18:53:07 drewc: but it looks like someone also set up a robots.txt file that prevents you from using archive.org to recover content 18:53:31 billc: someone else likely being Shapiro, AAUI 18:53:43 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FA78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:53:58 the 'why' gets a little deeper now, and that's all the info i'm privy to. 18:54:27 I, or course, no longer have a copy of the data. 18:54:30 of course* 18:54:51 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:19 so right now we're supposedly making an effort to recover the content, and i'll likely end up hosting the ALU wiki again. 18:55:36 Does the data contain anything interesting? 18:55:37 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:55:55 I found the alu wiki pretty useless 18:56:13 it's not a terrible loss.. but the RtL survey and the user group stuff was useful. 18:56:21 Joy. No IOCTLs passed to FUSE filesystems. So much for that idea... 18:56:32 having said that .. i'm willing to host those things on cliki ,,, 18:56:47 so we don't really need the ALU wiki anymore.. if we ever did. 18:57:06 rumours has it you're working on a redesign of cl.net, too. 18:57:14 *tic* ducks 18:57:29 there is some truth to that rumour. 18:57:32 drewc: that would be good if you could host it again - most of the alu wiki was out of date material but it was good historical stuff and the user group and RtL stuff was good too 18:57:59 billc: If we can find the content, i'll do the work to get in back online. 18:58:22 is the markup compatible? 18:58:27 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B7373.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:58:27 is #'(lambda ... ) same as (lambda ... )? 18:58:45 yes and no 18:58:49 leo2007: No, but (lambda ...) is equivalent to #'(lambda ...) 18:58:58 leo2007: No, but there's something like only one place in the spec where it matters. 18:58:59 drewc: will you get the domain back? 18:58:59 JonL has told me that there may be some archives out there among ALU members, so we'll see. 18:59:03 tcr: Only in an evaluation context. 18:59:14 drewc: was there some sort of "falling out" between Carl and the alu? If not, surely he must have some backups somewhere? 18:59:31 billc: That's assuming that Carl can be found. 18:59:35 nyef: which place? 18:59:44 tic: I'm not sure. It was all in cliki originally pre-shapiro .. i'm not sure if they changed it much for kiwi 18:59:48 leo2007: I forget. It was fairly obscure. 18:59:49 nyef: I thought he was working for google? 18:59:54 coming from Emacs, I'm a bit confused by this tho 19:00:01 madnificent: the domain belongs to the alu, so that's not a problem. 19:00:06 leo2007: restart-case 19:00:28 Okay, maybe not that obscure... 19:00:48 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:48 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c9f.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:55 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 19:00:57 billc: i don't think there was a falling out (though it certainly appears that way).. rather Carl has just up and vanished and took the wiki with him 19:01:13 that is all i know .. anything else would be pure speculation on my part. 19:01:37 fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:42 -!- fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:02:04 leo2007: Also (lambda ...) is allowed as the CAR of a form, but #'(lambda ...) is not 19:02:09 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:02:14 tcr and nyef: Can I say (lambda ... ) is equivalent to #'(lambda ... ) but not vice versa. The exception is in restart-case 19:02:44 leo2007: You can say, that LAMBDA is a macro that expands to #'(lambda ...) in an evaluated context. 19:03:07 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:03:10 the doc says: Its result type is: * 19:03:22 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:05:24 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 19:05:41 so #' just make sure it has been evalued and returned as a function object, is this undertanding correct? 19:06:17 -!- sisface [n=boy@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["MUNUS SIGSIGGA AG BARA YE INNIN AGGISH XASHXUR GISHNU URMA SHAZIGA BARA YE ZIGASHUBBA NA AGSISHAMAZIGA NAMZA YE INNIN DURRE E] 19:06:18 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:06:27 if lambda is evaluated, then there is no difference 19:06:51 No, #'(lambda ...) is a reader macro that ends up being (function (lambda ...)), similar to the mechanism for QUOTE. What happens from then on out depends on what happens with the form that was read. 19:08:48 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-142.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:08:50 pchrist [n=spirit@84.38.8.52] has joined #lisp 19:08:59 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:09:26 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:09:42 leo2007: #' is equivalent to (function ), and FUNCTION is an operator that frobs the function namespace of the current /lexical/ environment. That is (FUNCTION FOO) returns the function that is lexically bound to FOO, and (FUNCTION (LAMBDA ...)) returns a lexical closure. 19:11:36 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has quit [] 19:12:06 Thank you so much for helping me understand this; 19:12:08 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-137.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 19:12:45 You're more than welcome. 19:13:35 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:38 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c9f.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:13:59 rcy [n=rcy@S01060002553240a8.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:24 Is it possible to compile lisp program to exe ? 19:14:38 mrSpec: Yes, it is. 19:14:49 ahhhhhhh 19:14:50 salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has joined #lisp 19:14:58 I've found this function in Lisp Studio, but there is no information in Google 19:15:09 Could You give me some info ? 19:15:27 mrSpec: I don't know what Lisp Studio is. You have to consult the documentation of the Lisp implementation you use. 19:15:28 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.163.225.113] has quit [] 19:15:49 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:16:29 minion: executables 19:16:30 executables: creating executables: Newcomers to Lisp often ask how to "create an executable" from their Lisp program. http://www.cliki.net/creating%20executables 19:16:51 -!- silenius [n=jl@yath1870.zar.cronon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:16:51 I'm using CLisp, so I all info is in documentation ? 19:17:02 Lisp Studio seems to be a $50 shareware program 19:17:42 yeah, and trial version do not compile programs 19:18:45 should slime re-read your .emacs if you slime-quit-lisp or slime-restart-inferior-lisp? 19:19:07 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:19:12 erm, why would slime read your .emacs at all? 19:19:34 i have an emacs session that runs for weeks, and for the last week or so i have been under the assumption that i was running sbcl. because i changed it at least a week ago. 19:19:47 umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:48 mrSpec: I think Lisp Studio looks like a rip off. 19:20:03 fusss: No, it should not. 19:20:03 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:20:38 you aren't making a lot of sense, fusss 19:20:50 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:58 mrSpec: Better take a look at LispWorks, there are free version for it, too. 19:21:17 never heard of "lisp studio" what is it? 19:21:19 wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 19:21:24 clhs lisp-implementation-type 19:21:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_lisp_i.htm 19:21:36 can I compile program in LispWorks ? 19:21:52 mrSpec: Yes, you can. I'm not sure if you can do so in the free version. 19:21:57 what was the key to move through sexps but enter nested ones instead skipping over them whole? 19:21:59 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 19:22:12 ok, I'll check it 19:22:14 mrSpec: But at least LispWorks is a real product, not something that tries to rip you off. 19:22:29 Lisp Studio is just some poor GUI on top of Clisp. 19:22:32 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:22:45 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@121.pool85-49-169.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:22:49 tc: and they're selling it? 19:22:57 fuckers 19:23:00 I'm not buying Lisp Studio ;] Gonna start using Emacs 19:23:04 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:23:12 wingo-tp [n=wingo@249.Red-81-39-160.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:31 But need time to get used to it 19:23:46 -!- andrewy [n=irssi@cl-53.lax-01.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:23:46 weirdo: C-M-d? 19:23:50 lispworks can compile in the free version 19:24:01 can you make an executable from sbcl too? (as in: not only the image, but the implementation + image) 19:24:05 tcr, thank you 19:24:11 madnificent: yes 19:24:50 stassats, thx 19:25:05 stassats: allso for windows? 19:25:10 stassats: and thanks :) 19:25:20 madnificent: don't know about windows 19:25:21 andrewy [n=irssi@cl-53.lax-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:37 <_3b> sbcl can make .exe for windows 19:25:44 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:25:47 mrSpec: Lispworks got an Emacs-like editor. It's a nice implementation for Emacs. 19:25:55 mrSpec: Erm, I mean for Windows 19:26:20 mrSpec: There's also Corman Lisp. 19:26:23 as is acl, but expensive if you want to get away from trial 19:26:30 and there is corman, but i've never used it 19:26:39 oki thx :) ATM I use Notepad++ ;] 19:26:42 people who use windows have been known to say nice thinga bout it 19:26:58 Lisp Studio aka Ufasoft Lisp is a dodgy lisp implementation that _could_ be a ripped off CLISP 19:27:04 according to someone in cll 19:27:12 ah, ok. 19:27:15 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.210.27] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 19:27:16 never heard of either 19:27:21 previous to this discussion 19:27:29 It came up here before 19:27:35 Lisp Studio sounds like a microsoft product 19:27:37 :-) 19:27:48 someone showed a macro expansion that was a little too .. identical 19:28:03 that would be microsoft lisp sudio <-: 19:28:04 <_3b> fusss: according to their site not just cll, isn't it? 19:28:07 and not of LOOP or CLOS, which are shared around by all 19:28:10 hehe Lisp Studio like Visual Studio xD 19:28:12 weirdo: See http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/darcs/editor-hints/named-readtables/ for IN-READTABLE 19:28:31 heh, lisp studio screen shot looks like notepad on top of an empty window 19:28:31 (re: some earlier discussion) 19:28:42 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["out for dinner"] 19:28:50 _3b: oh, the site says so too :-P 19:29:11 <_3b> wonder if they explain anywhere why they replaced the c with c++ 19:29:24 too much time ont their hands? 19:29:26 and their site is (c) 2009, time traveling lisp hackers they are 19:29:28 speaking of microsoft, is it *really* true they coded MS BOB using lisp? ;) 19:29:33 tcr, that's uber-cool! thanks! :-) 19:29:40 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:29:50 joga: profanity! shameless lies! .. yes :-( 19:29:56 heh, awesome 19:30:09 weirdo: Works on SBCL, CCL, + Slime at the moment. 19:30:32 why the non-portability bit? 19:30:43 joga: MS also wrote the GC for .NET in lisp, and then translated it to C :) 19:30:56 Bill Gates' wife was a smalltalker who used the early smalltalks implemented in Lisp. She is also associated with Kevin Bacon in some fashion, I was told. 19:31:06 weirdo: lack of readtable introspection, see http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/with-readtable-iterator.pdf for work-in-progress 19:31:28 -!- andrewy [n=irssi@cl-53.lax-01.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:31:50 andrewy [n=irssi@cl-53.lax-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:59 tcr, char-code-limit? :-) 19:32:11 it's not like it would took that much of time... 19:32:33 weirdo: With implementations supporting unicode? 19:32:34 MS Bob had excellent storage management, the core technology of which was later sold to the ALU to manage its wiki 19:33:44 weirdo pasted "char-code-limit" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72542 19:34:06 netaust1n [n=austinsm@160.79.78.72] has joined #lisp 19:34:30 did you get the last line giving the c-c-l value? erc barfs on overlays 19:34:32 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has quit [] 19:34:39 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:34:57 antoni [n=antoni@78.pool85-53-29.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 19:35:20 that's a 2.93 GHZ celeron 19:35:29 i could run it on something slower if you wish :-) 19:35:33 weirdo: That's not enough. Take a look at PJB's LIST-ALL-MACRO-CHARACTERS in this reader.lisp file. 19:35:50 weirdo: PJB's function took 2,3 seconds here. 19:37:40 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:38:08 where's reader.lisp? can't see it in editor-hints distro 19:38:20 http://darcs.informatimago.com/darcs/public/lisp/common-lisp/reader.lisp 19:38:22 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:38:43 Okay, I'm gone for a little bit, hopefully only a few minutes. 19:38:50 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-181-77-121.cncdnh.east.verizon.net] has quit ["gone for a bit."] 19:39:25 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:43 Is there a standard library, arnesi or alexandria, with a flatmap in it? 19:39:49 0.422 seconds of real time 19:39:50 A utilities library? 19:39:56 but why make it non-portable by that? 19:40:08 you can always issue a style-warning and default to a slow impl 19:40:15 not to mention, it's only done at compile time 19:40:23 i'd worry if it'd be done at runtime :-) 19:40:29 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:41:14 -!- lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:42:01 you could also memoize when applicable 19:42:02 -!- antoni [n=antoni@78.pool85-53-29.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:29 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host14-155-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 19:43:18 mogunus: alexandria got mappend 19:43:50 lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 19:44:21 weirdo: Because doing it right first seemed like more fun. That darcs repository is work-in-progress. It's the reason why I haven't released yet. 19:49:23 Hi everyone. Does REDUCE use the result of the 1st combination as an argument to the 2nd call of the function ? 19:50:55 -!- andrewy [n=irssi@cl-53.lax-01.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:51:16 andrewy [n=irssi@cl-53.lax-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:06 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:52:32 Beket: Yes, it's fold left or fold right depending on :from-end 19:53:50 Thank you tcr 19:55:11 -!- davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:57:45 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:58:30 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-52-91.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:39 Much better. 19:58:39 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8abf-160.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:00:03 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:01:53 -!- deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:04:14 H4ns1: around? 20:05:08 drewc: affirmative 20:05:11 -!- H4ns2 is now known as H4ns 20:05:32 nyef: how do you pronounce your nick? 20:06:00 H4ns: are you all done with the quickhoney instance on the very old server? 20:06:17 z0d: Like "nyet", but with an #\f instead of a #\t. Other people might pronounce it differently. 20:06:21 drewc: yes, you can kill it safely. 20:06:33 H4ns: sweet, thanks. 20:06:37 nyef: nyet as in the russion no? 20:06:47 drewc: Oh, yeah. I wanted to ask you where the DNS controls were these days. 20:06:49 z0d: Da! 20:06:51 russian* 20:07:01 nyef: dns@internal.tech.coop 20:07:53 Cool. I'll try to get lisphacker.com moved over to the newer vhost server this week. 20:08:16 it's on replica right now? 20:08:28 kapuzineralex [n=alex@mnch-5d8671d2.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 20:08:32 I forget. 20:08:38 hrm. 20:08:47 80.68.86.19. 20:09:08 I can live with some downtime, and have a full local copy of the site. 20:09:19 If you were planning to nuke that server today. 20:09:46 Everytime I read 'da/nyet' I want to learn russian for some reason :/ 20:10:55 -!- andrewy [n=irssi@cl-53.lax-01.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:11:17 andrewy [n=irssi@cl-53.lax-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:04 crod [n=cmell@cb8a9b-055.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:13:52 Looks like that's "host1". And I just copied the last thing I needed and didn't know where else to find back from it. 20:14:58 Ifur [n=ifur@206.81-166-206.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:09 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-137.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:18:30 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-205.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:18:49 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-143.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:19:30 nyef: i'd like to nuke host1 today, so are you sure? :) 20:19:57 it is, after all, called host1... the only one older was host0. :) 20:20:26 Yes, provided that we can get me set up on whatever the current vhost system is. 20:21:45 yeah, easy as. vhost1.tech.coop, and it should be as simple as /tech.coop/bin/add-shared-hosting-site 20:21:45 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:22:05 schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-037-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:21 ... There are a few 0-byte files in the DNS data directory, a couple of which I'm fairly certain are something to do with domains that I tried to set up at one point. Is there any danger in deleting them? 20:22:45 schaueho_ [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-037-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:03 no, nuke em. there was a bug that 0'd them out at one point, and i recreated the ones that i could. 20:23:12 -!- schaueho_ [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-037-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23:21 drewc: what do you use for vhosting at tech.coop (if it's a public information) 20:23:23 this was years ago... so i can't imagine that anybody was using the domains. 20:23:42 Yeah, I'll just nuke and recreate the one I need. 20:23:46 z0d: we run a fairly vanilla apache under Xen. 20:23:53 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:11 nyef: did you need lisp? 20:24:28 nyef: cause there's another host entirely for that kind of thing. 20:24:29 No, for right now I just need static sites. 20:24:36 ok cool. 20:25:13 And there's some amount of non-lisp CGI available on vhost1, isn't there? 20:25:46 i think there is cgi available yeah. 20:25:58 no databases or php though 20:26:21 that's a host i hope to avoid provisioning as long as possible :) 20:26:28 Yeah, that's fine. 20:27:52 Hrm... 80.68.88.169 isn't the right MX anymore, is it? 20:28:55 no, 89.16.166.162 20:29:07 (mail.tech.coop) 20:29:14 Looks like two of the DNS files point to the older IP. 20:29:22 Dunno if that's critical or not. 20:29:29 which? 20:29:35 -!- Ifur [n=ifur@206.81-166-206.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 20:29:55 careerdestination and bridgewatermarketing. 20:30:41 Ifur [n=ifur@206.81-166-206.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:44 -!- Ifur [n=ifur@206.81-166-206.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:31:13 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@wsip-70-168-157-254.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [] 20:31:29 the former doesn't get mail here, and the later is you... you should still be able to access that mailbox via the ip address if you have actual physical mail accounts. 20:31:54 they're on host -1.. which i should have killed months ago. 20:31:59 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 20:32:35 My emails were catch-all for the domains, if memory serves. 20:33:29 So I'll tweak the lisphacker stuff to point to mail. and vhost1, and add the other domain file I wanted. 20:36:03 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 20:36:03 sounds good. 20:36:23 Any significance to the writability or lack thereof of the dns files? 20:38:07 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:38:56 non-writable ones were migrated to the new MX, and i set the -w as part of the script so it couldn't wipe things out if my /bin/sh skills were dodgy. 20:39:02 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:09 -!- fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:39:29 Ah, okay. 20:39:39 madlisp [n=Administ@165.Red-88-20-188.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:52 So should I -w the files I'm changing? 20:40:36 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:41:07 Or does it not matter? 20:41:14 -!- umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has quit [] 20:41:19 i don't bother to.. it's a nice reminder to get the warning... as i often copypasta domains similar to one i'm setting up. 20:41:58 it avoids typos in the dns directory doing nasty things to gigamonkeys domains as well .. not that i ever did anything like that. 20:42:31 Okay, the last thing is to ./update in the BytemarkDNS directory and hope nothing breaks? 20:42:44 yup 20:43:08 -!- kapuzineralex [n=alex@mnch-5d8671d2.pool.einsundeins.de] has left #lisp 20:43:25 did anybody ever write a content dns server in Lisp? my needs are very simple. 20:43:43 I guess that's that. Next stop, vhost1... 20:43:49 A "content" dns server? 20:44:04 julian_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has joined #lisp 20:44:09 ...I'm idly hacking one up now, although I don't plan to make a general purpose authoritative nameserver. 20:44:31 -!- julian_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has quit [Client Quit] 20:44:37 julian_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has joined #lisp 20:44:43 drewc: there is adns 20:45:08 drewc: it is a little hard to find, but i can check it in if you want to have a look. 20:45:20 -!- julian_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has quit [Client Quit] 20:45:24 julian_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has joined #lisp 20:45:25 what is a content DNS server? 20:45:44 drewc: Do I need to run add-login-user before I add-shared-hosting-site, and where does add-shared-hosting-site-awstats fit in? 20:45:46 hi, I've got some trouble with sbcl 20:45:56 it seems I exhaust the heap 20:46:13 I need keep a large hash table in memory (several millions entries) 20:46:23 and I get "Heap exhausted during allocation: 10985472 bytes available, 16777224 requested." 20:46:26 galdor: I'd say "join the club", but I don't actually stress SBCL enough to run into that. 20:46:41 Why does it have to be in memory? 20:46:41 content dns is a dns server that serves as a source of dns data rather than as an address->name mapper. 20:46:43 it's a really simple text analyze application 20:46:52 bayesian spam filtering actually 20:47:01 H4ns: i'd love to take a look. 20:47:09 Riastradh: how far are you? 20:47:10 to make the filter lean, I work on a large corpus (~100'000 docs) 20:47:11 drewc: i'll dig it out in a while 20:47:18 s/lean/learn 20:47:20 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:47:22 -!- julian_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:22 galdor: there is a command line switch that controls the heap limit 20:47:28 nyef: add-shared-hosting-site should be enough .. it's magic. 20:47:32 H4ns: that's ugly, nope ? 20:47:37 galdor: no. 20:47:38 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 20:47:41 galdor: Have you considered storing the hash table in non-heap memory? 20:47:46 nyef: you'll have to read the source to find out if stats are on by default .. i cannot remember. 20:48:00 nyef: I didn't know it was possible 20:48:04 nyef: you will notice that things are a little more organized now though :D. 20:48:12 drewc: Yeah, so I see. 20:48:32 drewc, not very; I started hacking yesterday. The goal is not to make a (real) authoritative nameserver or a caching resolver, but instead to experiment with covert DNS channels masquerading as authoritative nameservers. 20:48:36 nyef: you mean using berkeley db or something like this ? 20:48:54 galdor: Or rolling your own. 20:48:58 galdor: just increase the heap limit and be happy 20:49:06 they are temporaries frequency tables 20:49:26 H4ns: ok, gonna try the easy solution 20:49:54 deepfire: herep 20:50:54 H4ns: is that normal I can't use both --script and --dynamic-space-size 128 ? 20:51:07 galdor: you can, but order matters 20:51:26 drewc: Um. After entering my email address, it complains "chfn: unknown user Alastair", and then "chfn: option requires an argument -- o". 20:51:41 I tried both orders, each time I end in the sbcl shell 20:51:43 galdor: it's in the doc. dynamic-space-size (and control-stack-size iirc) must appear before other options. 20:52:00 galdor: uh. seems like a bug, but i'm just a user. 20:52:15 H4ns: I read the doc, use #!/usr/bin/sbcl --dynamic-space-size 128 --script 20:52:17 but no way 20:52:23 nyef: sounds like a buggy version of the utils that i thought i'd updated.. i'll have a look 20:52:48 it works without the shebang :s 20:53:07 galdor: i don't use shebang stuff to invoke lisp 20:53:31 H4ns: seems like a bug 20:53:48 if I find a little time, I'll look into the sbcl code 20:55:03 why would you set your dynamic space that small? the default is 500 20:55:07 nyef: that will have fixed the problem .. but it should still have built the site and mailed you a setup email. 20:55:31 hefner: thought it was 16MB 20:55:33 _ace4016_ [i=ace4016@76.168.248.118] has joined #lisp 20:55:42 Yeah, I see the site directory already. Just trying to get my ssh key authorized now... 20:56:42 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@76.168.248.118] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:56:45 -!- _ace4016_ is now known as ace4016 20:58:45 Hrm. That rsync didn't quite work... 21:00:43 ok, even with 1.5GB of heap the freq tables can't be stored in ram 21:01:00 (with 100k documents is understandable) 21:02:36 -!- schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-037-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:03:47 think I'm gonna stop working on a 100k documents corpus, it's a bit stupid 21:04:08 -!- madlisp [n=Administ@165.Red-88-20-188.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 21:04:15 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:04:50 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:00 lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:05:34 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:54 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:07:10 wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 21:08:13 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 21:08:33 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has quit [Client Quit] 21:11:09 drewc: Okay, modulo possible email problems and DNS propagation, I think everything is migrated for now. 21:11:17 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:11:18 drewc: Thanks for your help. 21:11:41 nyef: thank you for getting it done :) 21:11:49 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 21:12:23 I had one other question for you. 21:12:47 Would there be any problem with me putting google adsense on any of my pages, or another not-entirely-evil ad service? 21:13:14 (I think I may have asked this before.) 21:13:45 malu__ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c9f.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 21:13:57 rcy` [n=rcy@S01060002553240a8.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:17 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:15:02 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:15:15 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.5.44.100] has joined #lisp 21:17:46 billc: you mentioned something earler about a robots.txt and archive.org .. 21:18:18 if wiki,alu.org no longer had the offending file, would the archive suddenly appear again? 21:18:40 nyef: no, not at all, go nuts. 21:20:12 Thanks. 21:20:43 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:22:58 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c9f.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:24:50 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:25:39 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:26:13 drewc: not quickly, probably 21:26:28 amos [n=amos@cpc5-bolt9-0-0-cust762.manc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:29 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 21:26:29 and I don't think it'll restore archives from the period that the robot.txt aws in force 21:27:08 nyef: how many page views do you have? 21:27:45 rsynnott: I have no idea? 21:27:48 (if it's lisp-related content, you'll just get a stack of ads relating to AutoLISP 21:28:11 Meh, as long as they're CPM instead of CPC, that'll be fine. 21:28:15 -!- amos is now known as amos_ 21:28:24 O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 21:28:31 nyef: they're not 21:28:35 Or if I can block ads containing the words "AutoLISP" and "AutoCAD"... 21:28:41 is there any typesetting engine as easy as writing html? 21:28:51 i mean specifically pdf output 21:29:05 weirdo: Yes, actually. What you do is write HTML, then use your web browser to print to a pdf file... :-P 21:29:25 weirdo: The With-Readtable-Iterator issue write up was created by using Texinfo. 21:29:29 (well, google do do VERY limited CPM advertising through adselse; vast bulk of it is CPC tho 21:29:48 drewc: http://vaxbusters.org/ans.tgz 21:29:58 tcr, does it support macros like tex? 21:30:15 drewc: it is slightly hacked and contains some zones that i used to serve with it, sorry. 21:30:35 H4ns: thanks! I'll take a look. 21:30:47 weirdo: No, not as advanced as tex. 21:31:10 maybe i could write a lisp dsl with macros converting to texinfo... 21:31:11 :) 21:31:22 H4ns: so you have used this thing with some success? 21:31:32 not sure if writing everything in quotation-marks is worth it 21:31:39 weirdo: what about cl-typesetting? 21:31:41 drewc: yeah, but i can't remember how much of it. 21:32:01 -!- rcy [n=rcy@S01060002553240a8.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:32:08 drewc, i once saw the examples, but they looked scarily complicated... maybe i should look again 21:32:36 -!- Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-418165.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:33:20 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:46 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:34:13 *drewc* has a hack to hack. 21:34:51 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:36 stassats, I could never get the git thing to work satisfactorily, so instead I just created a mirror on github.com 21:36:20 H4ns: I'm trying to insert a blank line in a bullet item in the blogger edit interface 21:36:25 H4ns: Do you know how? 21:36:30 hi Fare 21:36:40 tcr: i use html if i need formatting. 21:36:56 Fare: right .. git issues is on my list. what do i need to do? 21:37:04 tcr: (

..

or
) 21:37:11 I hate computers 21:37:33 hehe 21:38:08 drewc: I don't really know. But if you could install gitweb and delete (or at least rename away) that obsolete script, that would be a good start 21:38:18 fe[nl]ix, thanks 21:38:25 Fare: for what ? 21:38:31 Fare: no problemo, done. 21:38:56 drewc, gitweb, too? 21:39:37 html's probably good enough for a lot of purposes 21:40:01
:) 21:40:14 weird and unnatural thought it may look 21:42:27 -!- t [i=tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has left #lisp 21:44:33 Fare: hrm ... it seems we installed git from source... gitweb is not going to be as easy as i thought. 21:45:13 Isn't there a recent backports package from debian? 21:45:35 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 21:46:26 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:46:56 drewc: installing gitweb is *very* easy: it's one cgi perl script, one css file and two png files 21:47:39 fe[nl]ix: that's what i wanted to hear! :) 21:47:53 Fare: nothing is ever recent enough for lispers. 21:50:19 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:51:45 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:13 Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 21:52:22 yeah, why hasn't xcvb been updated since it was last released? 21:52:37 w00t 21:52:51 ok I am continuing with the spells 21:52:56 H4ns: How do you insert code fragments? 21:53:03 breinded_, what spells? 21:53:05 I'm disappointed by the blogger editing interface. 21:53:14 tcr: go wordpress! 21:53:14 I've started reading paip as well 21:53:16 tcr: i use
, but i fail often with that.
21:53:22  tcr: it's the worst, except for all the others
21:53:38  you're better off picking either the html mode or rich text mode and sticking with it
21:53:42  (oh, and use mozilla)
21:53:45  this one http://www.lisperati.com/actions.html
21:53:55 -!- colouragga [n=simon@89.18.164.214] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
21:54:11  I hate markup. And I hate computers.
21:54:44  It's beyond me that this area still sucks as much as it does.
21:54:53  it briefly worked properly on safari, but stopped a month or so back :(
21:55:33  Oh the interface works smoothly. It doesn't just provide for my needs.
21:56:07 -!- rpg [n=rpg@75.146.46.193] has quit []
21:56:16  what do you need to do?
21:56:56  Insert code, inserting several paragraphs in the same bullet point
21:57:00  tcr: that's an opportunity! When are you delivering a better system for us?
21:57:13  tcr: xml?
21:57:33  xml resembles lisp, slightly
21:57:33  Fare: Not before you deliver xkcb. =P
21:57:51  tcr: I delivered a first release
21:58:08  ok, it only works in simple cases... but that's better than nothing.
21:58:12 Odin-MAC [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp
21:58:26  Oh wow your blog post was actually a release. I totally missed that.
21:59:03  lol
22:00:06 daniel__ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp
22:00:45  And I did an initial release of lh-usb shortly afterwards. Not that many people need Linux usbfs bindings...
22:01:02  actually, quite a lot of projects could already be moved to XCVB... except that XCVB cannot gracefully handle multiple projects at once, at this point.
22:01:25  nyef, do you handle your twisty HP screen that way?
22:01:37  No, my mp3 player.
22:01:48  My display turned out to have HID descriptors.
22:02:16  how do HID descriptors work?
22:02:26  Dunno yet. It's on my list to investigate.
22:02:54  nyef: when are you coming to give a speech at the boston lisp meeting?
22:03:08  Umm... I don't know?
22:03:13  Not January.
22:03:17 -!- lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:03:19  what about february?
22:03:27  or April?
22:03:29  Maybe.
22:03:39  I'd still need to figure out what to talk about.
22:03:54  OK, I book you for April, that gives you a month or two to figure it out.
22:04:02  Though that's seeming a little easier these days, given my project list...
22:04:18  what's your project list these days?
22:04:30  Well, it's more of a project idea list.
22:05:06  But one cluster has been tentatively identified as "lh-linux-hacks", which is lh-usb, FUSE, input and uinput, etc.
22:05:50  Possibly a USB HID driver that uses uinput to basically do the job of the linux usb hid driver.
22:06:08 lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp
22:06:32  Then there's messing around with low-level lisp stuff, like code-object layouts in SBCL, and ptrace from there...
22:07:43  I typed up the past week worth of ideas from my journal, and it came to about 25, of varying complexity and likelyhood, some of which are actually clusters of projects.
22:07:50  So we'll see how far I get with that.
22:07:54 yakov_ [n=yakov__@95-28-117-201.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp
22:08:06  what's lh, already?
22:08:10  lisphacker.
22:08:17  ok
22:08:34 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-52-91.man.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp
22:08:40 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-52-91.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp
22:08:41  so it's your SBCL-on-bare-metal thing?
22:08:43  Oops.
22:08:59  Can you run it in a Xen/QEMU/whatever box?
22:09:03  Did I miss anything when I typoed that?
22:09:10  (Accidentally closed the wrong window.)
22:09:21  minion: logs?
22:09:21  logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ ; older logs may be available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (down as of 2008/09/24)
22:09:51  Ah, no it's not exactly my sbcl-on-bare-metal thing.
22:10:01  My website is www.lisphacker.com.
22:10:21  22:09 < minion> logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ ;
22:10:22 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:10:24  oops
22:10:42  But last time I was doing anything with sbcl-os, I was running it in virtualbox.
22:10:56 -!- lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:11:10  (At one of the boston-lisp-meetings, actually. I think it was the first one Xach showed up for.)
22:11:20 rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp
22:11:51 *tcr* hopes his blog posting will look not that margled on planet.lisp
22:11:56  nyef: hardware compatibility reasons?
22:12:07  tcr: did you post it?
22:12:30  rsynnott: My interest in SBCL-os is extremely variable over time.
22:12:41  rsynnott: How do you mean?
22:12:46  the blog post
22:13:17  rsynnott: Well, yes, I did.
22:13:54  But yes, hardware compatability reasons: It's a pain to do quick-turnaround OS development without a floppy drive and a spare machine unless you use virtualization.
22:16:08 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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22:25:34 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-599aaa9ac4fe037f] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:26:17 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp
22:26:50 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-146-187.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp
22:28:46 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp
22:28:49  nyef: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/308923
22:29:19 -!- kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:29:26  Umm... So? AIUI, the same happens on Linux.
22:29:38  (hint: On linux, it's called "terminal line discipline.")
22:30:33  Or maybe that's not quite the same behavior.
22:30:56 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp
22:31:09  I know I had to track down a few functions to patch in order to get new-serve-event working.
22:33:44  I don't know if new-serve-event or anything similar ended up in SBCL proper.
22:34:47  Yeah, looks like none of new-serve-event got merged as of 1.0.23.
22:35:14 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
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22:35:46 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp
22:35:47  nyef, what does new-serve-event do?
22:35:55  shouldn't we be using IOLib instead?
22:36:20 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@227.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"]
22:36:30  It's a hack to allow SLIME with a communication-style of :fd-handler to play nice with a windows message dispatching setup.
22:36:43  http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/new-serve-event.lisp
22:36:55  This is -old-, though, so I don't know if it still works.
22:37:03 *_3b* still uses it
22:37:26 <_3b> in 1.0.19 i think
22:37:54  _3b: How's it working for you? And are you using the window-message hook, or just the fd-handler workingness?
22:38:39 <_3b> just the fd-handler stuff, works fine though
22:39:54 pcalcado [n=pcalcado@51.068.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #lisp
22:40:16  I forget what the trick was with new-serve-event:*message-function*.
22:40:49  Ah, it's a function of no arguments, and it needs to GetMessage or PeekMessage or something.
22:41:38 blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has joined #lisp
22:44:59 -!- malu__ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c9f.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"]
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22:49:14 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp
22:53:13  is NIL the only list that's not a cons?
22:53:42  Yes.
22:54:04 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp
22:54:08  And NIL is the only symbol that is a list, right?
22:54:20  Per ANSI, the type LIST is defined as (OR CONS NULL).
22:54:40  mmmmm
22:55:17 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-184-204-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp
22:55:28 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-184-204-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit]
22:56:00  Quadrescence: NIL is a constant which evaluates to something which is both a symbol and a list, yes.
22:56:43  Actually your wording was better
22:56:50  NIL is a symbol which is also a list
22:57:20  Quadrescence: NIL, '(), and () are all EQ
22:57:40  tcr: Only when evaluated.
22:58:09  (EQ (QUOTE NIL) (QUOTE '())) => NIL.
22:58:52  ... How long has this launchpad thing for sbcl been up?
22:59:00  Three days
22:59:18  Ah, so that'd be why the disparity in bug statuses.
23:00:47  nyef: You know, when you said "Only when evaluated" a bit earlier, you prompted me to write a blog posting... (which hasn't yet reached planet.lisp)
23:00:49 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp
23:01:37  re
23:02:31  tcr: Heh.
23:03:02 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@249.Red-81-39-160.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
23:04:57  tcr: Neat.
23:05:30 kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp
23:05:35  hello
23:05:44 ths [n=ths@X64dc.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp
23:05:52  Um. RESTART-CASE isn't a link to the hyperspec?
23:05:59  Fixed that a minute ago
23:06:13 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.6.202.150] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:06:27  I'm not sure how the fix will propagate
23:06:58  I'm not able to generate API in HTML with both tinaa and atdoc, what could I use ?
23:07:35 stoned [n=stoned@unaffiliated/stoned] has joined #lisp
23:07:39  hi
23:07:44  kiuma: I actually write the API docs in plain text, sometimes before writing the code.
23:08:09  nyef, how do you write documentation for something you havent even made yet
23:08:12  ?
23:08:26  Umm... By figuring out what it's going to do beforehand?
23:08:46  oh
23:09:24  sorry, but this doesn't solve my problem! I've already docstringed (nearly) all my functions, classes, etc. I need to generate html from those docstrings
23:09:41  Documentation is one of those things that can be done on either side of writing the code, and can be better for being done before, and then edited afterwards to reflect the details of what was actually written.
23:09:52 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Operation timed out]
23:10:21  and copy & paste docstrings ?
23:10:33  Or not bother with docstrings.
23:11:01  nyef, I find them handy, I'd only like to have them in html
23:11:03  Or write the docstrings differently.
23:11:19  The first thing you have to do is to choose a Lisp implementation <-- what is an implementation?
23:11:43  stoned, like a 'brand' :)
23:11:55  oh
23:12:01  just making sure
23:12:20  brand? If I do not get the meaning of that word wrong, an implementation is something else
23:12:40  It's like choosing a C compiler, only with more baggage?
23:12:55 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp
23:13:15 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp
23:13:30  I think I'm going to start doing Java
23:13:32  maybe?
23:13:32 -!- edon [n=edon@82.114.94.24] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)"]
23:13:37 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"]
23:13:43  do you people have jobs with lisp programming?
23:13:46 -!- mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:13:50  what kind of companies use lisp?
23:13:51  stoned: Common Lisp is an ANSI standard, so essentially just a lot of sheets of papers. An implementation is software which purports to conform to what's specified in the standard document.
23:13:59  how many jobs are there in the market for lisp vs. other langauges?
23:14:01  I mean
23:14:20  I'm just deciding which langauge to pick and invest time and energy into learning
23:14:21  Advertized lisp jobs are rare. Just getting the job done is more common.
23:15:28 -!- yakov_ [n=yakov__@95-28-117-201.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
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23:17:26  stoned, ITA software is a notable employer of Lisp programmers
23:17:38  I don't think we're hiring right now though
23:19:20 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
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23:20:00  ok, got the explanation for the shebang problem (can't use --dynamic-space-size and --script)
23:20:04  "shebang lines can only take one argument.  Standard Unix problem."
23:20:13  neat and clear, nothing to do :)
23:20:23  galdor: So use a wrapper script if you need it.
23:20:41 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp
23:20:44  or a magic shell thing
23:20:45  S11001001, memo from fusss: is it idiomatic to put my app initialization functions in project:start-project? i need to install a few handlers for static files and other stuff. I wasn't sure if the return value of start- is used, so i wrapped the last form with a PROG1 and added my code after that.
23:20:57  nyef: yep
23:21:28 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Client Quit]
23:22:15  galdor: welcome to cl-launch
23:22:38 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp
23:23:07  Fare: yeah, second time I hear about it while staying on #lip
23:31:42 *Fare* looks at the huge TODO list of xcvb, and decides to make it even longer.
23:32:06 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:32:36 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp
23:35:19   stoned: well, you can always learn more than one language...
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23:51:05  tcr: what's the meaning of your blog's title ?
23:53:10 deshko [n=deshko@163.238.35.169] has joined #lisp
23:54:31  hi. Can anybody tell me if there is a function to find the sum of the list? like  (sum '(1 2 3)) ?
23:55:19  deshko: no, but it's easy to make one
23:55:31  I think so
23:55:45  but was wondering if there is a ready solution
23:55:56  so that not to invent the wheel
23:56:02  you know
23:56:32  (defun sum (list) (loop for i in list sum i))
23:56:36  Umm... There isn't one function, but there is two.
23:56:48  (apply #'+ '(1 2 3))
23:57:05  nyef, wow. true sol'n. thanks
23:57:15  (Honestly, this question is so basic that the homework rule hardly applies.)
23:57:26  :)
23:57:45  (Note that if you keep coming in with basic questions we -will- apply the homework rule.)
23:57:52 lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp
23:58:26  honestly, i googled it (after looking into some books) then started to doubt if I missed smth
23:58:41  tcr, here?