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00:48:19 say i have a CL object store that I intended to be low traffic and low volume, but now is likely to get high traffic but still low volume 00:48:42 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:49:28 i still haven't picked anything specific, there is elephant, bknr, rucksack and perec or whatever 00:49:51 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:49:57 i really dont wanna do an rdbms because what i have are hundreds of tiny little changes, which should be rolled back when necessary 00:50:04 small deltas 00:50:19 how on friken earth can i make a backup solution for this? 00:50:39 auclairb: clbuild? 00:50:59 ahass: yes ! 00:51:13 auclairb: clbuild builds more than just slime 00:51:26 i really need to see my doctor about those memory losses 00:52:05 fusss: yes thats why the "and stuff" was present ;) 00:53:24 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:49 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:53:52 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 00:54:03 i think with my problem, the solution might be frequent disk write-back on update 00:55:51 fusss: what about somethink like regular snapshots then logs... it allows you to rollback easily isn't it ? 00:56:24 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:56:24 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:56:57 yeah, for some defenition of "regular"; too often and you slow down the app, too infrequent and it's useless 00:57:25 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.82.211] has joined #lisp 00:57:41 of course... it's something much dependent on the application... 00:57:51 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:58:23 or just like every K lines of log ? 00:59:57 (and/or some length of time without traffic...) 01:02:32 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:03:30 yeah 01:04:37 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:05:03 jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@pool-71-112-134-143.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:42 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 01:18:26 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@pool-71-112-134-143.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:19:35 gaja_ [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:21:24 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:22:51 thestarslookdown [n=thestars@128-193-139-25.public.oregonstate.edu] has joined #lisp 01:22:55 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 01:23:50 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:24:33 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has quit [] 01:24:48 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:25:34 -!- gaja [n=Gabriel@c-3481e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:26:20 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:26:38 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:26:54 -!- ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@12.233.20.2] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:27:09 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@12.233.20.2] has joined #lisp 01:37:27 lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has joined #lisp 01:40:31 ths_ [n=ths@X4f4a.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 01:42:33 neat, rucksack uses slot definitions of the type (unique-id :initarg :unique-id :accessor unique-id-of) to keep method bloat to a minimum :-) I would have said foo-unique-id, bar-unique-id, baz-unique-id :-P 01:45:53 rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:25 rvirding: 02:45? 01:47:21 just started running ubuntu and haven't fixed the clock yet 01:48:33 I had a weirdo experience when resizing a partition for installation 01:49:35 partition managers are scary... 01:50:04 all was going well but it failed to close new partition properly 01:50:32 so I can't boot from it, but I could repair it enough the read it and copy all my data from it 01:51:47 had really wanted to run freebsd but didn't have drivers for network cards yet 01:52:48 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.161] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:53:19 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:53:28 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-180-60.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:54:40 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 01:56:08 -!- ths [n=ths@X6a11.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:56:53 cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-233-165-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:04 -!- thestarslookdown [n=thestars@128-193-139-25.public.oregonstate.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:57:16 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:57:22 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 01:58:54 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:59:30 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-233-165-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:00:28 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-de72186e49fdbf5f] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:01:29 coliv [n=coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:42 -!- sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:03:46 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:06:31 -!- H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA5E2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:11:09 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:12:32 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:14:24 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.82.211] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:15:27 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:17:22 simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:18:26 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 02:20:38 crod [n=cmell@cb8a6a-226.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:21:19 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@cad439-014.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:22:42 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.161] has joined #lisp 02:27:36 cooldude127 [n=user@lawn-128-61-127-145.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 02:27:51 anybody in here use clbuild? 02:28:00 yes 02:28:03 _8david sure does! 02:28:45 i'm trying to have it load an image with swank already loaded to make slime nice and fast, and it fails 02:29:58 cooldude127 pasted "clbuild slime problems" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71895 02:30:58 slime loads fine if i don't have it load the core, but it does tell me i have different slime and swank versions (slime is nil, swank is from today) 02:34:23 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:34:43 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:38:40 kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:41:36 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:55 -!- phao [n=phao@189.13.126.182] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:46:58 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-83-242.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:54:52 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.82.211] has joined #lisp 02:55:05 -!- abend_ [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:55:32 abend_ [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:05 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-100.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:56:46 jestocost [n=cmell@cb8a18-067.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:58:45 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a6a-226.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:59:59 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 03:03:21 hjpark [n=user@61.109.28.117] has joined #lisp 03:03:44 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:08:24 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:08:51 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:17 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:15:26 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0DAF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:58 g'day 03:16:56 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:17:36 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-ab720a8cac7c284f] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:17:53 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 03:24:20 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 03:30:45 valiza1 [n=haroldo@r190-133-129-205.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:31:50 hey schme_ 03:33:58 isomer [n=isomer@001310E6CB31.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:12 -!- joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has quit ["leaving"] 03:40:34 holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:02 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:02 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:45:04 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 03:48:03 Hey fusss :) 03:57:21 If I have a method specializer list and a GF, what's the easiest programmatic way to see if a method is already defined with those specializers? 03:59:20 CAMUC? 03:59:22 S11001001: g-f-methods or compute-applicable-methods-using-class and then iterate through the methods for eql specialisers? 03:59:41 wasabi_____ [n=wasabi@ntoska205253.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:59:55 actually CAMUC would be wrong, because I don't want to catch (T ...) methods 04:00:22 oh well, I guess I'll just search for equal specializers 04:00:37 S11001001: you'd have to deal with methods specialised on superclasses anyway. 04:00:46 right 04:01:59 (position specializers old-methods :key #'method-specializers :test #'equal) 04:04:45 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 04:12:16 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:54 -!- wasabi____ [n=wasabi@ntoska205253.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:19:25 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 04:21:51 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:44 So i ./clbuild install sbcl then i ./clbuild lisp but it says "Warning: Cannot find an executable for implementation sbcl" What am I missing ? 04:36:23 Good morning. 04:36:51 Good morning! 04:39:07 -!- isomer [n=isomer@001310E6CB31.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:39:24 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 04:39:34 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:07 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:41:03 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:43:00 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-34.residence.usherb.ca] has left #lisp 04:44:25 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:32 wow I'm almost going too finish Common Lisp: Gentle Intro. Just one chapter left (macros, yay!) 04:45:10 but then i still have a few chatpers left from PCL 04:45:29 felideon: how did you like the dragon's sliced bread? 04:45:43 sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:55 rullie_ [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:46:13 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-18.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:46:14 felipe: heh 04:46:17 err... 04:46:20 pkhuong: heh :) 04:47:08 -!- rullie_ is now known as rullie 04:47:31 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:47:44 was a little confused with the list of numbers questions he had 04:47:58 thinkinghe was asking about each digit 04:48:12 instead of the four 4-digit numbers :P 04:52:27 lisp-newbie [n=mek@c-76-118-78-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:36 Howdy. 04:52:43 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:53:25 Howdy doo 04:54:01 evening 04:54:07 hey slyrus_ 04:54:17 hey beach. what's new? 04:54:59 slyrus_: I have one and a half catastrophic weeks ahead of me, but I'll survive (as usual). 04:55:23 slyrus_: In Lisp-related stuff, I'll give my first seminar to my department about Lisp tomorrow. 04:55:42 oh cool, good luck! 04:55:45 slyrus_: and next monday, I give a Lisp-related talk to a bunch of mathematicians and philosphers in Paris. 04:55:52 slyrus_: what about you? 04:56:15 I have a few formatting questions for CL if anyone has a moment or two to spare... My first question: is there a way to use print to print a message to a user, (let ((response (read))) ...) to get the response and then print a string on that same line without new-linging? Is that a problem for FORMAT? 04:56:22 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 04:56:25 well, I've been making progress on my chemicl library (the presumably-one-and-only user of epigraph) 04:56:55 slyrus_: nice! 04:56:55 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 04:56:56 I can represent molecules, read and write one of the standard-ish molecule specificationss 04:56:57 Right now I print a string and get input on the same line but the next print statement occurs on line underneath. 04:56:58 slyrus_: the seminar is the first in a series that I decided to do to fill in blank spots in the seminar schedule. 04:57:18 do simple things like compute the atomic mass of compounds, etc... 04:57:18 slyrus_: I had no idea there was a standard for such things, but I should have guessed. 04:57:33 well, there are a bunch, and they all suck, AFAICT :) 04:57:41 heh 04:58:14 one of these days hopefully I'll get around to the drawing part 04:58:54 will it be possible to draw in a CLIM pane? 04:59:05 lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has joined #lisp 04:59:51 beach: here's an example of the kind of (and a relatively simple one at that) molecule that I'd like to be able to read/write/represent/draw/compute on/etc... 04:59:54 http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=1983&loc=ec_rcs 04:59:58 beach: yes, that's the idea 05:01:00 Ah, OK. All of the blank ones are `C' I presume? 05:01:05 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:02:16 exactly 05:02:37 with the hydrogens off of the carbons not explicitly shown 05:02:54 Ah, I was going to ask about the missing bindings. 05:04:17 yeah, the convention is to only show hydrogens attached to so-called hetero-atoms (oxygen, nitrogen, etc...) 05:04:28 all the conventions are very carbon-centric 05:04:30 which is fine 05:04:57 you'll notice the SMILES and InChI representations on that page. they're both rather unsatisfying in different ways. 05:05:18 I am not getting the H-count right. If each of the implicit Cs has 3 H-es, that's too many. 05:06:23 beach: it's for minus one for each line shown 05:06:28 s/for/four/ 05:06:45 so for the ones in the ring, it's one H per carbon 05:07:09 oh, I am stupid, of course. 05:07:20 I was attaching too many Cs. 05:07:50 (bearing in mind of course that the alternating single and double bonds is a somewhat fictitious representation of the aromatic ring with delocalized pi-electrons, but we're getting further off topic :) ) 05:08:44 Yeah, that's a bit too technical for me with my high-school chemistry that dates back to 1973, but I get the picture. 05:09:23 in any event, it's but a fun exercise and, once again, makes me appreciate lisp. I can't imagine trying to do this stuff in C or Java, although that seems to be what folks do. 05:10:01 although now there's a lot of python/perl/ruby bindings to the heavy-lifting libraries which are in C. 05:10:01 slyrus_: I know what you mean. And I think they are able to do it because they don't realize how much energy they are wasting. 05:10:33 Hmm, I suppose I should start simpler. Is there a way to prevent (read) from creating a new line after the user enters a value? 05:10:56 lisp-newbie: you have to make sure your OS does not echo characters that are typed to start with. 05:11:01 -!- hjpark [n=user@61.109.28.117] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:11:20 btw, when you've got more time you should take another look at epigraph. I changed the API a while back to get rid of explicit nodes such that anything can be a node. the graph object is more analogous to a hash-table, with an explicit test function, that allows objects, strings, numbers, etc... to be used as nodes. 05:11:25 lisp-newbie: There is no way to do that from Lisp using only the standard. 05:11:44 Alright, great to know. Thanks as always beach. 05:11:58 lisp-newbie: No problem. 05:12:24 slyrus_: OK, but that's not going to be until January 20th at the very earliest. 05:12:48 heh. go obama! 05:13:06 slyrus_: is that when he takes office? 05:13:23 speaking of organic chemicals, have you ever tried the wines of Philippe Faury from St. joseph/cote rotei/condrieu? 05:13:27 yep 05:13:34 ah :) 05:13:45 Never tried those. 05:14:43 one of my reliable consistent under-the-radar standouts from the local importer 05:15:22 I would be surprised if I could even get them here, other than by mail order. 05:16:25 yeah, probably so. or ROAD TRIP!! 05:16:35 indeed. 05:17:16 Though, who knows. I'll ask my "spiritual adviser" next time (end of January) there is a wine-and-cheese tasting. 05:17:20 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178043110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:17:42 lukego_ [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has joined #lisp 05:17:57 beach: in other lispy news, with some help daniel herring and juanjo garcia-ripoli, i managed to get clem and ch-image running on ECL, so now they run on sbcl, ccl, clisp and ecl. 05:18:04 howdy lukego 05:18:18 slyrus_: Nice! 05:19:07 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:19:14 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:21:17 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1C6A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:21:19 hey, cool. I hadn't tried it yet, but retrospectiff works under ECL as well. 05:21:58 Does closure have TIFF support? 05:22:09 ccl, you mean? 05:22:22 No, I was talking about the web browser. 05:22:25 segv [n=mb@p4FC1CBE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:36 ah, sorry. 05:22:49 too many damn clo{z,j,s}ures 05:22:55 Otherwise, that would be a good use for retrospectiff. 05:23:13 Yeah, and I don't like any of those names. 05:23:26 We should rename the web browser at least. 05:23:29 my recollection is that closure's image support was really weak and relied on calling out to external programs to convert things to pbm or something like that 05:23:43 Ah, that's entirely possible. 05:23:52 I think closure would improve significantly if the image handling were moved into the lisp process. 05:23:59 and if it were renamed :) 05:24:05 :) 05:25:27 -!- gtasso [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7e1e9d6253ca4fcf] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 05:30:30 -!- holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:36:51 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-145-185.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:38:12 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:38:33 xrt [n=xrt@adsl-99-8-229-125.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:22 Troggle [n=48cf149f@67.159.35.76] has joined #lisp 05:43:24 Humans of all races have come to realize that NIGGERS = FAIL! Join us at Chimpout.com! http://www.chimpout.com Asians, Jews, Mexicans, Whites, Native Americans, and non-nigger Hispanics are welcome!!! http://www.chimpout.com For info ask in the Guest Forum. 05:44:26 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o slyrus_ 05:44:33 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has been kicked from #lisp 05:45:15 -!- kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:45:20 slyrus_: Thanks! 05:45:34 -!- slyrus_ has set mode +b *!*@67.159.35.76 05:45:37 np 05:45:54 let's hope I remembered the proper ban incantation 05:45:54 it's been a while 05:47:13 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:48:15 mdxi [n=mdxi@li11-97.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:50:56 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:57 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:50:58 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 05:53:05 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-100.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 05:54:36 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:54:54 does anyone know why slime downloaded fresh from cvs would have versions differ between slime and swank 05:54:55 ? 05:55:07 swank has the current date, but slime has a nil version 06:01:43 you didn't restart your emacs? 06:01:59 (or reload slime in it) 06:03:54 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 06:09:13 lisp has arguably ruined my mind. 06:09:47 "altered" perhaps, but "ruined"? Nah. 06:11:04 Ruined. I was programming in C, and I got frustrated 100x faster than normal since I couldn't make up my own syntax. C is not programmable. 06:11:20 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:14:02 So now I'm stuck with lisp for the rest of my life. If any employer offers me a job, I'll tell them that it's the lisp way or the highway, I suppose. 06:14:42 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:15:44 brianski [n=ski@pool-71-178-156-21.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:57 Quadrescence: congratulations, you are "smug lisp weenie" now 06:16:10 how do i print a float as a decimal? 06:17:10 (print (truncate float)) 06:17:39 or what do you mean by "as a decimal"? 06:17:49 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.250.63] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:19:08 stassats: i thought so at first. before it was different dates, so i restarted emacs 06:19:12 i mean... i'm not so interested in the internal simplified fraction format, i want to see a decimal... so for example some variation on '(/ (+ (* 4174978 2) 250768) (+ 2538971 (* 8465705 2)))' should tell me 0.44... instead of 2866908/6490127 06:19:48 stassats: now slime's version is nil for some reason. if it matters, i built slime using clbuild 06:19:50 oh, you want rational as float 06:20:12 brianski: (float 2866908/6490127) 06:20:15 otherwise slime works fine, but it's an obnoxious message that shouldn't be there 06:20:42 cooldude127: the awesome dangers of never having any releases :| 06:21:00 pkhuong: you think i just need to wait for a cvs update? 06:21:04 cooldude127: maybe your lisp is started from the saved image with old swank? 06:21:11 cooldude127: that's an option. 06:21:22 stassats: sweet, that's the ticket 06:21:51 stassats: my lisp isn't starting with an image. in fact, doing that doesn't work at all. 06:21:59 i tried that and got errors 06:22:20 and the swank version is today's date 06:22:30 so i know it's the new one 06:22:36 and the slime's date? 06:22:37 it's the slime that has no version (nil) 06:22:51 it used to be out of date, so i restarted emacs and now it's nil 06:23:02 *stassats* goes to try today's slime 06:23:38 -!- _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-49-80.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:24:46 seems to work with sbcl 06:25:07 this might be related too: once slime does load, after i tell it to continue, it says "; SLIME - ChangeLog file not found" 06:25:21 how recent is the sbcl? 06:25:46 cooldude127: another option is to go to slime-devel@common-lisp.net and report your error 06:25:54 yeah 06:25:56 cooldude127: pretty recent 06:25:59 Wow. 06:26:08 k. mine is brand new from cvs. 06:26:53 cooldude127: Yeah, I hear they had a great sale at checkout. 06:27:01 lol 06:27:07 ;oP 06:27:30 i really wish i could get slime to load swank from an image 06:27:38 it might be related 06:27:44 who's running this show? 06:27:46 ;) 06:27:52 cooldude127: does ChangeLog file exists in slime's tree? 06:28:24 yes 06:28:42 which makes that message quite strange 06:29:42 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.161] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:32:42 well i need some sleep, but i appreciate your attempts to help. i'll probably post a message to the mailing list 06:32:48 tomorrow 06:32:51 thanks 06:32:53 and my slime is broken with CCL, but in another way... 06:32:57 -!- cooldude127 [n=user@lawn-128-61-127-145.lawn.gatech.edu] has left #lisp 06:33:28 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:00 -!- abend_ is now known as abend 06:38:09 -!- abend is now known as abend_ 06:38:38 -!- abend_ is now known as abend 06:38:52 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.161] has joined #lisp 06:43:51 lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has joined #lisp 06:44:43 -!- lukego_ [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:57:23 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 07:01:11 where is lambda list congruence defined? 07:02:53 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 07:03:35 clhs 7.6.4? 07:03:35 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 7.6.4?. 07:03:38 clhs 7.6.4 07:03:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_fd.htm 07:04:49 thanks 07:05:29 these refer to GF lambda lists and method lambda lists, not explicitly "method function of method" lambda lists, as `add-method' does 07:05:40 NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 07:06:10 -!- lisp-newbie [n=mek@c-76-118-78-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:06:27 S11001001 pasted "SBCL/CCL disagreement in lambda list congruence test" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71900 07:10:05 S11001001: what is "method function" ? 07:12:57 I am not sure, but since it is definitely defined that "A method object is not a function and cannot be invoked as a function", I assume it is that thing accessed by `method-function' and initialized with :function in the MOP 07:13:49 "Various mechanisms in the object system take a method object and invoke its method function, as is the case when a generic function is invoked." 07:15:21 it seems for me to be logical, that this function has lambda list equal to the method's lambda list 07:15:35 crod [n=cmell@cad4e7-091.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:15:49 incidentally 7.6.2 refers to the method's lambda list, not the method's method function's lambda list, when talking about congruence 07:15:57 but that's not what add-method says 07:17:06 and is thus only helpful were the dictionaries defined to be non-normative 07:17:36 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@cb8a18-067.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:17:41 hsaliak [i=hsaliak@cm26.epsilon96.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:18:26 stassats: i don't see why it would be that way. For example, how would you deal with call-next-method? I think that's the sort of thing the MOP is supposed to insulate you from. 07:18:39 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:18:57 pkhuong: the method-lambda-list is unspecialized 07:19:09 pervonisse [n=yakov@79.136.60.147] has joined #lisp 07:19:54 S11001001: i'm just referring to stassats's belief that a method function's lambda list should be equivalent to that of the method. 07:20:39 it's the behavior that seems to be demanded by add-method, and is implemented by Clozure 07:21:17 I expected SBCL's behavior, which is why the tests in http://www.bitbucket.org/S11001001/weblocks-dev/changeset/bea8ef3116bc/ (which started all this) were initially defined to use constantly to create the method functions 07:21:38 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 07:22:09 although to be sure Clozure's error message could be slightly more helpful in these cases 07:22:24 S11001001: it's the make-instance (g-f-m-class gf) that seems fishy to me. Is that really part of the interface described by AMOP? 07:22:36 pkhuong: i meant, since it isn't defined what is "method function lambda list", it is equivalent to method function list in that sentence in add-method entry 07:24:07 except that a method is explicitly defined to not be a function, so it cannot be elided so easily 07:24:09 s/method function list/method lambda list/ 07:26:14 there's no BODY slot in function metaobjects (although there is for the closette objects in AMOP). This makes me sad. 07:27:27 stassats: it makes me think the standard is badly worded here more than anything else. 07:27:34 "The class of the method object that is created is that given by the method class option of the generic function on which the method is defined", which is inited with :method-class and accessed with GFMC in AMOP 07:29:09 lambda list in defmethod must be congruent to gf's list, and lambda list in add-method must be congruent to the same gf, then i suppose add-method and defmethod are referring to the same, congruent, lambda list 07:29:48 in defmethod, the method function ll and the method ll are specified by the same form, so it would be hard for them to differ 07:30:23 S11001001: shouldn't you use make-method-lambda to create the method-function? 07:30:23 so the spec could say less about that were add-method not to exist 07:32:12 that isn't defined in Clozure 07:33:38 try passing (lambda (args nml) 42) as the function. 07:36:21 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #lisp 07:37:06 AMOP says "This generic function is called to produce a lambda expression which can itself be used to produce a method function for a method and generic function with the specified classes." about make-method-lambda, so if clozure doesn't provide m-m-l, i think you're screwed, portably speaking. 07:38:22 I've read it 07:38:24 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:38:32 and I can't understand why someone thought MML would be a good idea 07:39:09 how else? 07:39:13 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.161] has joined #lisp 07:39:59 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:40:29 it wants an environment; how is that at all helpful for runtime method creation? 07:41:19 and really, a lambda expression instead of a function designator? 07:41:24 You're gonna call compile or eval anyway. 07:41:47 -!- brianski [n=ski@pool-71-178-156-21.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:42:01 or we could leave out MML and not call either 07:42:02 A lambda expression is what you use when you don't have faith in the famed SSC. 07:42:06 dammit 07:42:36 jestocost [n=cmell@d28851-184.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:43:20 -!- crod [n=cmell@cad4e7-091.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:43:42 And you can always pass nil for the environment, since it's an environment argument as passed to macroexpansion functions, not to macro-functions. 07:48:04 elderK [n=elderK@203.100.218.197] has joined #lisp 07:51:17 well, anyway, do you think it would be legal for SBCL to signal an error if the :function arg to initialize-instance on standard-method had a lambda list that didn't accept at least 2 args? 07:52:00 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.253.198] has joined #lisp 07:52:07 good morning 07:54:21 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:55:58 S11001001: Probably; ask Krystof. Have you tried actually calling that method? I'd expect it to die then. If we follow the wording to the letter, I think you're in nasal dragon territory. 07:56:09 pkhuong: my tests fail on sbcl 07:56:17 -0 and -5 anyway 07:56:55 the "invalid number of arguments: 2" seems to indicate a mml was expected 07:57:49 S11001001: an argument list and an nml. 07:59:26 would it be alright to compile a lambda expression containing a literal function? 08:00:48 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.161] has joined #lisp 08:01:27 S11001001: not sure. The spec is pretty vague on the topic. I'd expect it to work on most implementations (as opposed to compile-file and then load), but you can always wrap the lambda expression in another that receives the function as argument, (lambda (fun) (flet ... ,(m-m-l))). 08:02:18 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.167.223] has joined #lisp 08:02:19 well, I would like to accept functions to the function that makes methods 08:02:29 at which point the lambda expression may be gone 08:03:13 yes, which is why you get m-m-l to give you a fresh lambda expression from the one you cook up that calls fun. 08:04:14 m-m-l gives you a lambda expression. Wrap it in another that receives the function as argument and make sure the argument is called correctly from the method's body, and you win. 08:07:18 atm I'm writing something to make a lambda with a gf-congruent ll that will call the function, then passing to ensure-method from c2mop (which is a fancy add-method/mml on PCL and other things on others) 08:11:22 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:13:02 S11001001: a gf-congruent ll will be 2 arguments for a standard method. 08:13:23 I mean with a ll congruent with the GF's ll 08:14:08 well if it's anything like what the MOP suggests, the method function simply has to take 2 lists as arguments. 08:14:36 unfortunately, that doesn't apply when MML is missing, and I'm coding to ensure-method's interface 08:15:27 the simplest might be to just eval, if you can assume this little. 08:15:35 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:15:35 _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:15:36 some of the ensure-method implementations expect the lambda list to be congruent with the GF's ll 08:16:28 you guys sound like nerds 08:16:56 banisterfiend: Thank you for your input; it's much appreciated. 08:17:02 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 08:17:04 randomwalker [n=me@cpe-70-116-29-132.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:51 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!*@91.151.140.4 08:18:09 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*@203.97.217.154 08:18:16 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has been kicked from #lisp 08:18:25 mornin' Krystof 08:21:52 Does anyone still have a link to Marco Baringer's movie on slime? 08:22:13 it seems like the link to the .mov from common-lisp.net no longer works and the torrent has no seeds or peers 08:22:54 http://www.clozure.com/media/slime.mov 08:23:04 ah thanks 08:23:07 np 08:26:33 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 08:34:37 vtl [n=user@nat/redhat/x-8406722e3f378b82] has joined #lisp 08:36:05 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 08:37:23 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-3-215.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 08:37:25 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:39:00 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:39:56 -!- TDT [n=TDT@143.108.177.207.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:40:10 TDT [n=TDT@143.108.177.207.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:32 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-100.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:48:56 sbcl kept serve-event? is this for unthreaded-yet platforms? 08:49:40 fusss: yes, and for those who do not trust sbcl's thread safety 08:49:59 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 08:50:06 valiza2 [n=haroldo@r190-133-130-122.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:50:17 heh 08:50:39 fusss: (or the thread safety of their own applications, for that matter) 08:52:22 -!- pervonisse [n=yakov@79.136.60.147] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:52:29 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:52:30 fusss: the IO code depends on it in a couple places. 08:53:36 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 08:53:48 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:48 pkhuong: also plausible 08:54:12 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:54:19 -!- xrt [n=xrt@adsl-99-8-229-125.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 08:57:26 HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 09:07:04 -!- valiza1 [n=haroldo@r190-133-129-205.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:09:03 toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:25 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:11:14 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:13:13 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:14:10 -!- elderK [n=elderK@203.100.218.197] has quit [] 09:15:36 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:16:41 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:14 elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has joined #lisp 09:22:11 crod [n=cmell@cb8abf-127.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:24:17 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@d28851-184.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:26:26 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:26:26 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:27:04 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:27:19 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:24 jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has joined #lisp 09:30:47 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:42:40 hoerup [n=20495@193.3.8.1] has joined #lisp 09:44:45 -!- saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 09:45:52 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA2C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:58 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0DAF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:46:02 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 09:46:34 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0DAF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:04 please, no one use "fib" and "fac" when show casing the power of lisp on a blog post :-P 09:48:59 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 09:49:34 any reason in particular? (did you just see someone?) 09:51:19 yeah 09:52:14 http://arantaday.com/blog/the-power-of-the-functional/ 09:53:33 better, Real World examples make themselves apparent on the first use of lisp outside a "chapter summary" 09:53:43 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has quit [No route to host] 09:54:50 sorry for the off-topicnes, but while we're at blogs and such: what's a good combination of a wiki and a blog? need/want comments, stamping, but also (access restricted) edit-anything + static files. Everything seems to suck. :| 09:58:29 -!- ths_ [n=ths@X4f4a.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:58:32 no complete solution, but there is a half-baked wiki in the uncommon-web examples, and there is a blog engine somewhere 09:58:43 _iirc_ 10:00:25 i'm gonna have to write/find one in a few weeks 10:00:43 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:00:45 Hrm. Yeah, I was kinda wanting to avoid touching the code as much as possible. I've moved from WordPress to MoinMoin back to (a heavily customized) WordPress again. It's OK, but not good. 10:01:20 Hrm. Let me know if/when you find something, will you? (meanwhile, I'm reading up on FosWiki; could suit your needs). 10:01:36 alright 10:02:26 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 10:03:30 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:03:44 psi [n=psi@c-2be8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:10:33 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:13:57 Soulman [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 10:24:29 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #lisp 10:26:33 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 10:27:58 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:32:24 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:32:55 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-100.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 10:33:47 -!- bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:34:01 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 10:36:43 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:39 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 10:39:58 ths_ [n=ths@p549AF24F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:38 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 10:42:49 might anyone know why I get "libclm.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory." when I try to build clm (by doing (load "all.lisp")) 10:43:23 I can see that it's trying to build libclm.so just prior to the error, but there is no error message besides this 10:43:36 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:44:06 I'm using sbcl by the way. 10:44:55 -!- hoerup [n=20495@193.3.8.1] has left #lisp 10:46:05 Which CLX is the sanctioned? 10:47:36 Xof's? 10:48:54 it's the only one that I support 10:48:58 mind you, I don't support it very much 10:49:41 Just trying to get the latest of everything to get a StumpWM that works correctly with the Mode_switch key 10:49:47 (IIRC that would work in the later versions of CLX) 10:51:14 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:31 hm, rfc2388 does the wrong thing with sb-unicode when default-external-format isn't l1 10:55:48 sad for no VC on the upstream 10:56:32 Meh. "XLIB:DISPLAY not changed" when trying to compile Climacs. 10:57:42 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:57:45 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:00:31 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@223.pool85-49-171.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:00:40 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@223.pool85-49-171.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 11:00:45 tic pasted ""XLIB:DISPLAY not changed"" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71903 11:01:18 Hm. Maybe it's Slime. 11:03:28 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:05:38 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 11:08:41 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:09:06 ineiros_ [n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 11:10:33 -!- ineiros [n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:16:42 rincewind_ [n=rincewin@141.89.226.149] has joined #lisp 11:17:15 mr_uggla_ [i=mzsillan@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 11:18:33 -!- rincewind_ is now known as rfgpfeiffer 11:19:15 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:19:41 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:19:58 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 11:21:09 -!- mr_uggla [i=mzsillan@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:22:52 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-17.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 11:23:52 -!- rfgpfeiffer [n=rincewin@141.89.226.149] has quit [] 11:24:29 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:30:43 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:30:56 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:32:21 -!- a-s [n=user@89.38.174.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:34:57 -!- gaja_ [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 11:38:35 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:45:17 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:08 g'day 11:46:57 -!- vtl [n=user@nat/redhat/x-8406722e3f378b82] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:48:38 lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp373.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 11:49:45 yep, indeed, fixed in a new release 11:50:21 let me just say how unhelpful it is to only provide a tarball labeled "latest" 11:51:38 ilSignorCarlo [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:53:23 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:55:24 hey 11:55:26 -!- abend [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:55:32 got a problem with sbcl 11:55:36 unhandled condition in --disable-debugger mode, quitting 11:55:42 but it still hangs there instead of quitting 11:55:51 the condition is sb-ext:timeout 11:56:14 there's even a sb-ext:quit outside of the with-timeout form 11:56:38 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-191-122.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:56:46 elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has joined #lisp 11:57:10 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-191-122.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 11:57:47 -!- lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp373.studby.uio.no] has quit ["leaving"] 11:58:40 oh --script 12:00:17 -!- 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joined #lisp 13:19:38 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 13:20:08 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17E790.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:17 -!- coliv [n=coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:21:32 ths_ [n=ths@p549AF24F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:14 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:22:42 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:24:04 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:30 mathrick [n=mathrick@87.54.43.37] has joined #lisp 13:27:10 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:27:13 -!- ^authent1c is now known as authentic 13:32:11 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:54 kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:02 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:34:09 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:34:26 dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 13:36:45 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:41:24 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:50:00 HET2 [n=diman@chello062178211140.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:52:04 Allegro CL is rather expensive. 13:52:53 life is rather hard 13:52:59 Hehe. 13:54:47 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:24 Quadrescence: You better start saving up! 13:55:32 (or get your employer to pay) 13:56:24 coliv [n=coliveir@146.145.196.162] has joined #lisp 13:56:34 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@87.54.43.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:03 schme_: Are you, by any chance, a schme_ programmer? 13:58:41 Quadrescence, how much is it? 13:58:56 how much do you have? 13:59:41 xan: $600 for the "professional edition for academic users" 14:00:07 jsnell: Unfortunately, I have nothing now. But fortunately for a good reason. 14:00:11 Quadrescence: note that this does not include any redistribution rights whatsover 14:00:13 and the professional edition for illiterates? 14:00:37 xan: What? 14:00:47 for non academics... 14:00:51 hah. 14:01:26 xan: If you aren't aware, "academic users" are those who are classified as a (full-time) student. 14:01:30 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A24CD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:02:17 well, I don't see what's wrong with engaging in some drug dealing or prostitution to pay for your lisp sir. 14:02:48 Hehe. I don't need Allegro CL for anything. I was just looking at it. :) 14:03:08 drug dealing and prostitution can surely result in a lisp. and a limp, too 14:03:24 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:04:48 btw, random Elephant question: is there a way to get in instance just from its oid? It seems that you need at least the classname and the oid 14:05:13 Quadrescence: Sure. I'm a schme_ programmer. 14:05:37 schme_: Hah, I meant Scheme*. Stupid subconscious use of tab 14:05:49 Quadrescence: Also there is a free evaluation version of allegro. 14:06:08 Quadrescence: Oh, scheme programmer. That I'm not very often :) 14:06:26 schme_: Just curious because of your nick. 14:06:36 Yaa. It has been haunting me. 14:07:11 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:25 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:08:12 I just can't be bothered to change it. 14:08:23 schme_: Don't change it. It's good. :) 14:08:31 (also my IRC-fu is not so good, changing it seems a mess) 14:08:44 Well I know it's good. Everything about me is good ;) 14:09:12 Quadrescence: Also if it makes the world harder, I think that lispworks is more expensive than allegro :) 14:09:32 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 14:09:57 I thought that in general lispworks was cheaper 14:09:59 schme_: I was going to read up on LispWorks too. I don't know what "benefits" they provide over something like SBCL, etc. 14:10:05 all still to expensive imo 14:10:11 lispworks is cheaper if you want to actually ship applications. 14:10:39 Oh that might very well be the case :) 14:11:06 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-64.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:11:16 lispworks has a fast compiler, good cross platform libraries and a nice IDE that works crossplatform 14:11:18 perhaps it's time to talk about lisp library distribution systems already 14:11:28 sbcl makes fast code 14:11:48 or the relative merits of GPL versus cerebral palsy 14:12:12 yeah it's a novel topic to discuss :P 14:12:20 That's what we need. more systems to distribute libraries. 14:12:31 I wish LispWorks/AllegroCL had non-restricted free versions for non-commercial use. 14:12:37 I'm jus' sayin' 14:12:46 lispworks express :) 14:13:00 or just cheaper versions for non-commercial use 14:13:30 or academic 14:13:50 at my last post I couldn't get them to agree on buying an allegro academic license 14:14:09 too expensive if not every student is going to use it 100% of the time apparently 14:14:15 "There is a time limit of 5 hours for each session, after which LispWorks Personal exits". That would be a bit annoying :) 14:14:28 and they just get microsoft products for free 14:14:34 So the solution is to force all students to use lisp. 14:14:42 yeah but not my call 14:14:47 well.. 14:14:50 Intel gives their compilers for free (Fortran, C++, and their different libraries) for non-commercial use. +1 for intel. 14:14:52 you could start killing people off. 14:14:53 at my current job we force them to use scheme though :) 14:15:13 lispworks is what, a 6 person company? 14:15:20 franz not much more 14:15:45 I think one would be hardpressed to find someone saying "It'd really suck if all these nice lisps were free!" 14:15:53 anryx [n=anryx@213.210.175.188.adsl.nextra.cz] has joined #lisp 14:15:58 Just guessing here. 14:16:04 Now I need to go celebrate :) 14:16:12 bad analogy though, but it's true that a restaurant with few customers shouldn't start raising its prices to make up for it 14:16:49 yeah, it should just go out of business feeling all righteous 14:16:50 Are either of them really "better" than the free implementations of CL? (I quote `better' because it's really broad) 14:17:31 "yes". and also "no" 14:17:36 you'll be mucking about less on the commercial ones 14:17:39 (both "yes" and "no" are really broad) 14:17:48 Hello Xof. 14:17:50 unless you're already used to sbcl and a tons of libraries for it 14:18:10 I don't find the level of mucking-aboutness I have with SBCL to be really any different than with ACL. 14:18:11 but I think sbcl still produces the fastest code 14:18:16 Or want to get everything working really nicely on the microsof windows :) 14:18:54 I'm still using sbcl parallel to lispworks :P 14:19:00 Quadrescence: See what you need to do here is start making a sbcl + mcclim IDE that kicks everything elses butt. 14:20:23 tarbo [n=me@pool-96-235-18-120.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:49 schme_: I wonder what would make a good (SB)CL+mcclim IDE. I haven't done anything with mcclim, but emacs+slime has been pretty nice for lisp, it just has a pretty lengthy learning curve. 14:22:44 well all the fancy graphics you could do of stuff ;) 14:23:01 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:23:10 However, I wouldn't mind (I don't think) writing a cross-platform IDE. 14:23:32 sbcl+mcclim seems a good choice there if you want a lot of work to do :) 14:23:33 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:40 Quadrescence, climacs? 14:24:09 Climacs is a good starting point. 14:24:56 what do you use for sql? 14:25:00 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:18 clsql or postmodern, why not? 14:26:12 can't decide whether perec is mature enough to run it in production 14:26:26 basically, every now and then there's a regression and everything blows up 14:26:52 weirdo: it went through a big refactor in the last two months 14:27:08 oh it is some persistency thing :) 14:27:26 as for licensing - I find Corman CL license to be one of the nicest (of commercial environments) among all kinds of languages. 14:27:41 elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has joined #lisp 14:27:48 Good afternoon. 14:28:17 attila_lendvai, bisect takes a while, hopefully there'll be a result somewhere in the evening 14:28:25 Howdy beach. 14:28:26 Athas: Did someone tell you about the planned Climacs hacking week that sykopomp is preparing for beginning of January? 14:28:40 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:25 I saw a mention of it in the logs, yes. Not a bad idea, Climacs is pretty fun to hack on. 14:29:41 Except for the GUI-implementation-parts, they're not really fun. 14:30:01 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has quit [No route to host] 14:30:34 I think they will just leave those to you. :) 14:30:43 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:30:54 It's not even pixel-pushing, it's... output record-juggling. 14:31:41 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.161] has joined #lisp 14:35:16 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:35:51 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:35:52 -!- persi [n=user@ec2-72-44-44-74.z-2.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #lisp 14:36:12 -!- davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:38:13 vasa [n=vasa@mm-132-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 14:38:17 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:43:22 -!- alinrus [n=alinrus@92.82.6.198] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:44:51 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@223.pool85-49-171.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:45:37 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@223.pool85-49-171.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 14:47:20 anyone have any idea why sbcl might crash to ldb while garbage collecting? 14:47:24 benny [n=benny@i577A2355.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:48:01 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:26 *spiaggia* prepares his Lisp seminar tomorrow. 14:50:29 -!- kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:51:38 rsynnott: sure. if it encounters an invalid widetag, or other such validity problems, it'll lose to ldb. What did it print out? 14:52:43 My seminar will start in 22 hours. I think one of the things I will do is to project #lisp in real time (at least for a little while), so if you are around by then, you need to give a good impression :) 14:53:18 I'm having dificulties with Climacs, XLIB:DISPLAY size mismatch or something along those lines. Latest CLX, latest Climacs. Any ideas? -> http://paste.lisp.org/display/71903 14:53:40 tic_: what OS? 14:54:25 spiaggia, Ubuntu x86/32 14:54:35 make sure everything is recompiled from scratch 14:55:03 I removed fasls from clx and climacs. Hm. But wonder if I did it for CLIM? Heh. 14:56:00 Seeing compilation of lisp code is more satisfying than C/C++/etc code. :o 14:56:15 chandler: unfortunately, I didn't the save the output 14:56:20 I will if it happens again 14:56:52 (I initially thought it was crashing to ldb due to trying to allocate too much memory, which happened before when I was a bit silly with cl-ppcre 14:59:10 spiaggia, now prolog-syntax bombs on me, FORMAT-SYM undefined. 15:00:30 anyone using lisp to scrape sites ? 15:00:38 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:00:53 tic_: prolog-syntax might have suffered some bitrot. 15:01:40 Athas: you don't like juggling output records? I like juggling output records. 15:02:05 spiaggia, yeah, I just pretended it worked, climacs starts. (forgot to remove the mcclim fasls before) 15:02:18 every time I juggle an output record, I think to myself, "this would be really unpleasant if I were using xlib" 15:03:29 meh. mode-switch not bound, so I can't type parens. 15:03:32 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:04:09 tic_: remind me what kind of crazy keyboard you're using 15:04:32 hefner, the better questoin would be what kind of crazy keymap I'm on. :) 15:04:46 hefner, I've mapped mode_switch (altgr) + qwe to ?(). 15:04:54 well, I have less sympathy for intentionally crazy keymaps. 15:05:02 yes, I can feel the hate. 15:05:15 xristos: I wrote a lisp program to fetch postal addresses from a couple of Spanish yellowpages sites a few years ago. 15:05:24 It works in other X apps, so my guess is that CLX is Doing It Wrong(tm). 15:05:41 maybe the other X apps cheat. 15:05:53 maybe you need a mode switch yourself! 15:06:05 god knows what Xorg does to their libraries behind closed doors 15:06:26 oh great, stumpwm froze on me. 15:06:54 fwiw, this is what I'm using. http://mikael.jansson.be/static/config/Xmodmap 15:07:13 It's a sign. 15:07:17 maybe mode_switch should be elsewhere. 15:07:23 schme_, abandon Lisp, get with the program? 15:07:32 hahaha. 15:07:37 well for your wm anyway ;) 15:07:55 I'm all in favour of intentional crazy keymapping though. 15:08:11 and climacs tells me M-x is not bound even on a non-crazy one :) 15:08:20 Yes. Anyone for explicitly disabling US keyboards in CLX? (Aye!) 15:08:29 Good plan. 15:08:52 Maybe the whole meta thing is a debian issue. 15:08:53 matimago: did you use any libraries for html parsing ? 15:09:00 I should install something else and test. 15:09:21 phao [n=phao@189.13.132.82] has joined #lisp 15:09:31 andrea1 [n=andreas@p579F83F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:10 god, what a bizarre keymap. 15:11:33 hefner, Swedish variation of Dvorak. 15:11:47 It still should work though .) 15:11:50 I'd have tried it with climacs, but I probably wouldn't have been able to figure out how to type climacs 15:12:13 hefner, the interesting part is the () mappings and "add mod2 = Mode_switch" 15:12:15 tic_: I thought your keymap worked just nice for ya? 15:12:35 clx and xkb currently disagree about what key events mean, I believe 15:12:35 schme_, it understands meta, but not the third mapping of a key. 15:12:41 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-145-185.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:46 Wow what crap :) 15:12:46 someone please fix it 15:12:56 oh, look, debian broke xkeycaps. again. 15:13:42 "The first keysym is used when no modifier key is pressed in conjunction with this key, the second with Shift, the third when the Mode_switch key is used with this key and the fourth when both the Mode_switch and Shift keys are used", straight from the hippo's mouth. 15:13:56 (xmodmap(1)) 15:15:16 tic_: I bet your X server isn't actually using that, though 15:15:22 andreas pasted "sbcl 1.0.22 latin9 bug" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71909 15:15:24 instead, it is using XKEYBOARD 15:15:28 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:39 and maintaining some translation tables that don't in fact work backwards-compatibly 15:15:50 Xof, I have no knowledge of X internals, so that may very well be the case, however that is what I use to set my keymap in X. :-) 15:15:57 I'm having problems with sbcl and the latin9 charset. Advice of sbcl sages welcome. 15:16:04 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:16:25 tic_: yes, and that's what I mean by "clx and xkb currently disagree about what key events mean, I believe" and also "please fix it" 15:16:48 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 15:17:01 Xof, I hope you wasn't directing that at me. It's so much more convenient, in my perspective, to just nag you about it until you /ignore me. ;) 15:17:07 -!- nullwork [n=kyle@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:17:08 s/wasn't/weren't/. 15:17:37 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:18:23 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:12 -!- andrea1 is now known as andreas 15:19:14 oops, TERMINATE-SERVER not bound. I do have some other issue with my keymap. (S-Backspace triggered that) 15:20:12 I advocate burning X11 to the ground, or would, if I wasn't certain a modern replacement would be much, much worse. 15:20:21 xristos: No, I wrote my own HTML parser. With ad-hoc additions for the bugs in the websites I was interested in. 15:22:36 Xof: How do they disagree? I press M-x and it says M-x is not bound. mcclim even says it is :meta :) 15:23:15 oh. In that case you are lucky 15:23:35 It seems very unlucky. I can't use M-x, I have to hit Esc x. 15:23:36 or maybe you have only one keymap 15:23:52 Which works just fine and gives me the M-x prompt.. Hitting M-x just gives M-x is not bound. 15:24:05 I assume I only have one keymap? 15:24:12 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 15:24:48 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 15:25:00 I don't know 15:25:25 (: 15:25:35 this is why I enjoy mcclim so much. you get to crawl around, trying to guess what the hell various layers of crap in between you and, say, clx, are doing. 15:25:39 How does one use two at the same time? 15:26:04 or maybe I'm just bitter because I can never remember the syntax for defining gestures 15:26:08 jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has joined #lisp 15:26:10 hefner: Yeees.. that's nice and all, if one has the time :) 15:27:17 andreas_pramari [n=andreas@195.37.209.41] has joined #lisp 15:27:17 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:28:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/71909 <-- paging again for somebody who understands stream format handling in sbcl. 15:28:42 hefner: X11 is actually quite good. The rest of the world however found it too hard to use properly... 15:29:36 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:30:20 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 15:30:44 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:24 p_l: by extension, no window system at all is even better, because everything it does is done perfectly. the rest of the world might find it hard to use, however.. 15:32:11 hefner: I mean some weird stuff that is being done to X instead of evolving it into newer design (which would be X12 then) 15:32:35 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:32:35 like Xft2, the newest input changes in X.Org server, etc. 15:32:54 hefner pasted "xev for mcclim" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71910 15:32:56 Or XRandR 1.2 15:32:58 also, X11 doesn't play nice with non-X11 things, in general 15:34:23 rsynnott: Any example? Because that seems to be defining characteristic of all window systems 15:35:03 andreas: weird. I read the code, and it should work... 15:35:16 Xof: So did I. 15:35:19 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:36 andreas: works just fine here. 15:37:12 schme: Can you be more specific what "here" is? For me, it's sbcl 1.0.22, on a 64 bit Ubuntu. 15:37:25 <_3b> works on 1.0.19/win32 15:38:04 Same problem occurs on somebody elses 64 bit Linux. 15:38:16 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:38:26 <_3b> also works on 1.0.21/linux x86-32 15:38:31 yeah, I have problems on 64-bit machines 15:38:42 andreas: sbcl 1.0.16 debian sid x86 15:39:00 very old sbcl/x86-64 and newish sbcl/x86-64 both fail 15:39:14 I think I see a pattern there. Thanks for testing. 15:39:33 my suspicion would start by landing on miscompilation of handling arrays with array type (unsigned-byte 21) 15:39:50 -!- anryx [n=anryx@213.210.175.188.adsl.nextra.cz] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:40:57 jkantz [n=jkantz@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:48 -!- andreas_pramari is now known as MikeGr 15:44:22 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:46:37 hoerup [n=hoerup@62.61.134.78.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:49:30 -!- MikeGr [n=andreas@195.37.209.41] has left #lisp 15:50:21 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:50:37 kreuter [n=kreuter@pool-96-252-14-107.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:42 -!- psi [n=psi@c-2be8e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:51:05 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:54 _3b: mcclim on win32? 15:52:45 <_3b> fusss: no mcclim here currently 15:53:10 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:53:50 fusss: the framebuffer backend my help writing one 15:54:12 oh, just thought "works on 1.0.19/win32" corresponded with that bit of pasted clim code 15:54:25 <_3b> no, that was to the encoding stuff 15:57:06 mcclim has worked on win32, albeit using an X server 15:57:07 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:59:06 budden [n=Miranda@89.222.171.131] has joined #lisp 15:59:34 i have all of X running under win32 via Xming. it even has option to add native decoarations, side server root window and other goodies. 15:59:55 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:56 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:59:57 remote desktop that is 16:00:39 wasabi______ [n=wasabi@ntoska205253.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:01:46 gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:03:54 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:56 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:07:35 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Client Quit] 16:07:57 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 16:08:01 saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:04 -!- simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:11:18 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-61.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 16:13:07 -!- wasabi_____ [n=wasabi@ntoska205253.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:13:55 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:34 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:15:45 esden [n=esden@lapradig77.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:45 hefner annotated #71910 with "deluxe version for x11 debugging" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71910#1 16:16:58 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:17:06 sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:32 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 16:19:06 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 16:22:27 *hefner* wonders why attempting to view source in the sldb now only results in a message about the buffer being read only 16:24:05 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:25:54 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:07 -!- sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 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[n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:39:43 -!- [tica] [n=tica@85.234.150.84] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:39:43 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:40:28 [tica] [n=tica@85.234.150.84] has joined #lisp 16:40:29 -!- hsaliak [i=hsaliak@cm26.epsilon96.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:40:45 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:10 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello062178211140.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:44:50 appletizer [n=a@82-32-120-59.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:45:01 dto [n=user@c-98-216-64-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:44 elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has joined #lisp 16:47:17 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:30 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.143.161] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:48:31 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:50:47 Good evening. 16:50:59 hey beach. how did it go? 16:51:09 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o slyrus_ 16:51:29 slyrus_: My seminar? That's tomorrow. 16:51:32 epoch [n=FAIL@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 16:51:41 oh, it's tomorrow here now :) 16:51:59 T-21 16:52:01 relative to last night when were discussing it anyway :) 16:52:03 OK, it's in about 20 hours 16:52:36 hello beach 16:52:39 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:52:55 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.90] has joined #lisp 16:54:06 Is there something I should know about SBCL+CLX+McCLIM before I attempt to have 120 or so students run that environment in a couple of weeks? 16:54:22 Use a sane keymap. 16:54:50 tic_: And how do I know if a keymap is sane or not? 16:55:16 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit [Operation timed out] 16:55:45 use pixie and mcclim-freetype! 16:55:47 beach, you test it. if you can use your Meta key and type all characters, you should be OK. At least in that regard. 16:55:49 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 16:56:04 schme: I can tell you what to trace and prod at in order to figure out what is wrong. 16:56:15 hoh. 16:56:19 Athas`: No idea whatsoever .) 16:56:30 tic_: Ah, interesting, because my Meta key doesn't work on my machine at work. What should I do to change it? 16:56:49 beach, help schme whack Athas` :) 16:56:50 Athas`: I ran hefner's lil mcclim-xev that he just posted and it keeps telling me I'm hitting and releasing left-meta. 16:57:17 milanj [n=milan@79.101.137.83] has joined #lisp 16:57:17 Athas`: And I'm convinced that climacs is also reading it as meta.. I mean why else would it complain about M-x not being bound? 16:57:30 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:32 beach, my Meta key works. I don't know if my keymap can be of any inspiration (probably not, because S-Backspace generates TERMINATE-SERVER). http://mikael.jansson.be/static/config/Xmodmap 16:57:46 *tic_* heads off for dinner. 16:57:50 Check esa:process-gestures, that's the function that does command lookup based on gestures. 16:57:52 tic_: OK, I'll try that at work. Thanks. 16:58:02 Athas`: oh I'm sorry I misread what you said. You said you tell me, not I tell you 16:58:03 hahaha :) 16:58:04 schme: good point. 16:58:13 willb [n=wibenton@wireless34.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:58:13 I was going to use the second version of that to debug the mode-switch thing, but mcclim turned against me (server connection kept dying, input-test randomly misbehaved) 16:58:18 splittist [n=chatzill@34.12.3.213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:58:24 morning 16:58:29 hello splittist 16:58:32 Athas`: Right ok. I'll check that out. 16:58:45 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 16:58:51 Insert print statements or whatever and figure out exactly what it is fed, then check (clim:find-command-table 'esa::global-esa-table) to see how M-x is bound. 16:59:17 beach, does Esc x work on your work machine? 16:59:33 *schme* fires up another emacs. 16:59:44 Last time I had a non-working meta key, I changed the keyboard configuration using the Gnome GUI from "Default" to "Alt and Meta are on the Alt keys (default)." 17:00:06 tic_: yes, I think so (I am not on that machine right now). 17:00:42 you and schme might have the same problem then. 17:00:52 I don't think so. 17:01:59 *mvilleneuve* has the following line in his xorg.conf file: Option "LeftAlt" "Meta" 17:02:00 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:02:23 josemanuel [n=josemanu@199.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:02:27 hippee-lee [n=hippee-l@sta-206-168-218-28.rockynet.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:43 mvilleneuve: I don't (here) and it works anyway. 17:03:09 My god this is too late in the evening for this kind of stuff. 17:03:12 *schme* looks for coffee. 17:03:49 mvilleneuve: But there is a difference between versions of the OS here and at work, and so probably a difference between versions of the X server as well. 17:04:01 -!- hippee-lee [n=hippee-l@sta-206-168-218-28.rockynet.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:30 *beach* thinks that the fact that his machine at work is badly configured shows that he is not doing any real work at work. 17:04:40 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-17.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:28 beach: ok :) 17:06:11 mvilleneuve: besides, I think the point that schme is making is interesting, i.e. that Climacs correctly detects that it is a M-x, but then says its unbound. 17:06:34 cooldude127 [n=user@lawn-128-61-127-145.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 17:07:05 Actually it stopped doing that now. It doesn't seem to do anything with my meta at the moment :) 17:07:20 I don't think anyone is unclear about what the cause is. 17:07:20 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 17:07:39 I'm very unclear about it :) 17:07:45 Athas`: I must be the last one then. :) 17:07:48 It is probably that damn x-event-to-key-name-and-modifiers function again. 17:07:54 Xof: strange bug, the latin-9 thing. Recompiling the definition makes it work, but there's no difference in the closer over value, and no suspect one in the disassembly. 17:08:30 I expect that your Meta key has some non-Meta modifier on it as well. 17:08:39 McCLIM is not too happy about superfluous modifiers. 17:08:52 For some reason or other climacs has now stopped noticing my meta. 17:08:55 Athas`: No it does not :( 17:09:03 Has too! 17:09:09 Did you change anything in ESA or Climacs? 17:09:17 nope 17:09:18 not yet 17:09:37 state 0x0, keycode 64 (keysym 0xffe7, Meta_L) 17:09:40 you guys are pretty funny! 17:09:56 dcl [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 17:09:58 It's very odd though. It just stopped bitching and now it does nothing. 17:10:04 maybe I did some clbuild update. 17:10:13 ChibaPet [n=mason@64.206.6.254] has joined #lisp 17:10:23 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-132-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 17:10:25 oh. 17:10:34 Meta_L? I wonder if that means anything interesting. 17:10:43 It means it's not Meta_R :) 17:10:48 But. 17:10:56 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:04 My *warnings* buffer has (2) (key-mapping/warning) SXEmacs: Meta_L (0x40) generates both Mod1 and Mod2, which is nonsensical. 17:11:09 so well I'll look into that :) 17:11:21 Psychic debugging, yay. 17:11:25 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:11:51 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:12:00 dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 17:12:02 I have no idea why it is so. 17:12:20 The gesture-to-gesture-name function just chooses the first thing that seems to fit, so it's no surprise that works. 17:12:33 schme: did you find any coffee? 17:12:36 Also, you use SXEmacs? Brave man. 17:12:40 Ya hang on I'll remove this mod1, and have the previous error back. 17:12:51 Athas`: Ya man, I even have two patches in it ;) 17:13:01 Hey all. Can someone point me to docs for using Berkeley DB with CCL? Ah... Never mind, found http://www.common-lisp.net/project/elephant/ 17:13:09 beach: Nooo. 17:13:14 beach: it is too late in the evening for coffee :) 17:13:24 tracd is bringing clnet to its knees 17:13:30 Anything other than Elephant I should ponder? 17:14:18 schme: it is never too late for coffee! 17:14:24 I can't sleep on it :) 17:14:38 schme: it means you are not consuming enough. 17:14:48 3 litres! 17:14:58 I'm more of a tea person. 17:15:06 not strong enough then? 17:15:10 Yes! Tea! Drink of the civilised man! 17:15:11 wtf. 17:15:13 ChibaPet: you want to use it directly? 17:15:22 If possible, yes. 17:15:39 Athas`: Yes. I'm a big fan of greens and pu-erh. my Lisa here thinks I'm crazy for having a thermometer for the water and what not. 17:15:39 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:15:43 But what does she know! 17:15:52 Anyway now my M-x works. 17:15:58 ChibaPet: there's this thing: http://common-lisp.net/project/bdb/ but I'm not sure what sort of state it's in 17:16:11 schme: what did you do? 17:16:18 Hm, thank you, rsynnott! 17:16:19 xmodmap -e "remove Mod1 = Meta_L" 17:16:20 ChibaPet: i have been playing with rucksack all night 17:16:28 alternatively, you could probably mess with elephant's bdb stuff a bit and get access to low-level bdb stuff 17:16:39 rucksack is one of those "DIY" and use just what you need sort of tools 17:16:39 *ChibaPet* nods 17:16:49 I'll look at Rucksack too. TY. 17:16:53 This is very cool, thank Athas` :) I now feel interested in hacking on this bad boy again :) 17:17:00 ...just need to finish this other project. 17:17:00 elephant's bdb backend is reliable, but doesn't, by default, expose low-level bdb stuff 17:17:15 *beach* ponders how to explain this to the students. 17:17:19 brill [n=brill@0x57386060.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:18:18 had xev reported ModN ... well. 17:20:36 Alright, thank you all! Some new stuff to read. :) 17:20:41 is it just me or is web development _crap_ 17:20:50 -!- ChibaPet [n=mason@64.206.6.254] has quit [] 17:21:11 fusss: Thank you for confirming my impression. 17:22:17 i have wrapped my head around real-time MS DOS device driver that had insanely tight requirements and more stuff i not care to remember, but web development is the worst kind of easy but dull, file pushing, grunt type of work i can think of 17:22:30 fusss: however, the web is rather useful 17:22:41 fusss: isn't always all THAT easy 17:22:43 fusss: in addition, the result is a disgrace in terms of usability. 17:23:03 useful my what! why does it feel so fragile? 17:23:16 (in general, it is very easy to make a website to do X for 1000 users a day, but very difficult to do the same for a million) 17:23:17 mulligan [n=user@e178060098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:23:28 there is absolutely no way to log, profile and debug this monstrosity of a platform that's turtles all the way down. 17:23:33 seems others are having the same problem, attila_lendvai .. http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/7490 17:23:50 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:24:07 isnt initform valid for class allocated slots ? 17:24:29 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:24:31 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:57 fusss: anything that has to do with the web, like ordering tickets or groceries, is done by my wife, because I go nuts before completing the most simple transaction. 17:26:51 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.90] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:26:51 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:26:55 i'm debugging a paid-service website that has to process the user typing their credit card, going to the authorizor, and returning with a ticket. the only way to debug this is to lower the price of the service, and actually type in a credit card # _everytime_ 17:27:03 because the vendor doesn't have a test api 17:27:14 as a counterpoint: i'm using trac 0.11-r7723 and it's not destroying my machine. :) 17:27:36 -!- dcl [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:27:59 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.250.77] has joined #lisp 17:28:10 dcl [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 17:28:51 -!- cooldude127 [n=user@lawn-128-61-127-145.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:28:54 fusss, drakma? 17:29:17 ..it might not be worth the effort though 17:29:28 but sometimes it is 17:30:04 Athas`: It is very mean to get climacs working sweet for me this late! I will not be able to sleep! 17:30:33 have some coffee 17:30:41 heh :) 17:30:45 I need my beauty sleep ;) 17:31:11 schme: It's revenge for stealing Scania a couple hundred years ago. 17:31:35 hmm.. not quite following there. 17:31:59 Scania is latin for Skåne. 17:32:02 I'm very fond of the idea of giving scania back to denmark. 17:32:04 Yes, I know. 17:32:15 I didn't steal it. I live in the occupied area :) 17:32:26 manuel_ [n=manuel@AStrasbourg-157-1-54-150.w90-39.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:32:43 schme: oh? Where? 17:32:49 Malmö! 17:32:55 -!- vtl [n=user@nat/redhat/x-4a5736f9a0b90e7c] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:33:00 schme: I had no idea. I grew up there! 17:33:04 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:33:58 (though, sometimes I write it Malmø, just to annoy some people) 17:34:16 schme: my entire family is still around there. 17:34:23 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d82817.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:34:41 ah yes.. The suburb of copenhagen. 17:34:50 yes. 17:34:51 I live right next to Möllan. 17:34:58 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:25 schme: very close to "Bosses gästvåningar" which was created by my brother and now run by his daughter. 17:35:29 schme: That is excellent news! 17:35:43 schme: I love "Möllans Ost". 17:35:52 schme: If you ever feel like hacking on really boring stuff, feel free to fix the problem in McCLIM. It shouldn't be that fragile to weird X setups. 17:36:08 Athas`: It is on my TODO list. 17:36:19 Athas`: I must finish this other project first though :) 17:36:34 schme: though this reminds me of previous discussions. Have we talked about this before? 17:36:42 I don't think so. 17:36:45 *beach* laments his bad memory. 17:36:52 -!- hoerup [n=hoerup@62.61.134.78.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:37:01 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:37:48 Athas`: That and making the mode-switchery work :) 17:37:49 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:38:27 beach: I haven't been to Möllans Ost.. We tend to talk about checking it out, then we do other things. 17:38:32 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:39:39 salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has joined #lisp 17:40:16 schme: they have some goat chees made by a guy from Stockholm who now lives in Österlen. Rather good stuff! 17:40:44 I don't really like cheese ;) 17:40:52 schme: oh :( 17:40:56 anyway, enough OT. 17:41:11 good plan. 17:41:17 I will now leave for a few hours, bye. 17:41:23 Athas`: so long 17:41:29 *schme* will take a look at this SWINE thing soonish. 17:41:41 Hopefully I'll be doing all my lisping in climacs :) 17:41:53 schme: I am *very* close to that. 17:42:03 Cools. Any recommendations? 17:42:16 paredit ported yet? :) 17:42:44 schme: Not really. I have tried a few times, but gave up due to small but annoying bugs that I didn't have the time to fix. 17:42:58 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-80.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:43:06 Athas wrote something paredit inspired for climacs 17:43:08 schme: But it's getting closer every time. 17:43:17 ah cools. 17:43:35 locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-61518a975725bffe] has joined #lisp 17:43:39 hefner: Are you sure? Wasn't Riastradh involved? 17:44:21 I was involved in rewriting the cursor motion operations in order to implement the tiniest fragment of paredit, which never saw the light of day. 17:44:39 *beach* *loves* #lisp 17:47:19 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:26 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:30 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:47:52 rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has joined #lisp 17:48:29 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178060098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:48:29 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:50:34 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483E3DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:24 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:54:27 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@AStrasbourg-157-1-54-150.w90-39.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 17:54:31 schme, what did you do to get the superfluous modifiers for a key? I seem to always have ctrl and meta on, or something, as S-Backspace generates TERMINATE-SERVER. 17:55:25 tic_: xmodmap gives me a nice table of all modifiers. 17:55:43 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 17:55:45 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:09 manuel_ [n=manuel@AStrasbourg-157-1-54-150.w90-39.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:56:15 schme, nothing useful there. :( 17:56:30 bollocks! 17:56:36 tic pasted "xmodmap -pm" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71927 17:56:51 what's your like? 17:57:38 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:53 about the same. just no alt_l, and a super_r and a hyper :) 17:58:07 Yeah, I had to map F20 to left ctrl instead of Hyper. 17:58:15 How on eart do you live without ctrl_r ? 17:58:16 :) 17:58:22 hah. 17:58:28 Yeah, that's like the single most useful key in history. 17:58:35 Well with emacs it is :) 17:58:39 schme, could you please annotate the paste with the output of your xmodmap -pm? 17:58:52 schme, huh? I have a ctrl_l on the to the left of A. 17:59:03 sure so do I. 17:59:08 *tic_* adds a few more prepositions, just for fun. 17:59:09 but I still need to use ctrl_r 17:59:17 like I use shift_r 17:59:18 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:19 What's ctrl_r used for? 17:59:30 C-i 17:59:38 C-d 17:59:46 C-y ... 17:59:48 etc. :) 17:59:56 do you press Control_R with your right-hand pinky? 18:00:00 yes 18:00:04 searching. 18:00:06 elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has joined #lisp 18:00:20 ctrl-r is searching in bach when you have emacs editing mode on. 18:00:23 er in bash. 18:00:29 in zsh, too. 18:00:38 schme, I see. I'd have to find another job if I used my right pinky like that. :/ I just use the left control for all control-related, and 18:00:42 bougyman: Sorry. That is not what we are talking about :) 18:00:59 schme, .... but still shift_l vs shift_r. it's better located. anyway, how about that annotation? :) 18:01:00 If you have your CTRL keys on either side of the space bar, you can use thumb_r + finger_l, and vice versa. 18:01:31 splittist, I tried doing that, but X11 or GNOME didn't want to have Meta to the left of A and Control to the left and right of space. :| 18:01:48 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@AStrasbourg-157-1-54-150.w90-39.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 18:02:09 tic_: ): 18:02:57 schme annotated #71927 with "bananlikör!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71927#1 18:03:19 Thanks! 18:03:38 tic_: I was thinking. What does the clim-xev say S-bspc is ? 18:03:41 -!- appletizer [n=a@82-32-120-59.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:03:59 schme, climacs sez TERMINATE-SERVER. 18:04:26 -!- weirdo [i=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:04:32 *beach* vanishes to watch local news on TV, and then to have dinner. 18:04:37 schme, by the way.. maybe you could include xmodmap -pe, too? :/ I seem to have more broken things. 18:04:42 enjoy! 18:05:04 *splittist* is reminded of http://blog.splittist.com/2007/07/23/emacs-newbies-dont-swap-ctrl-and-caps-lock/ and realises he has to clean up a few comments... 18:05:22 tic_: -pe gives me a help text. 18:05:30 dankna [n=d@c-71-230-27-230.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:31 schme, meh, -pk. sorry. 18:06:00 shit that filled up my screen. 18:06:00 heh. 18:06:45 tic_: I know climacs says it, but what does http://paste.lisp.org/display/71910 say :) 18:06:55 schme, duude 18:07:07 sweet! what does mine say? 18:07:20 :)) 18:07:30 *rsynnott* fumes 18:07:41 splittist: Why not swap 'em? 18:07:53 just fixed a long-standing bug caused by someone using a keyword where they should have been using a symbol in the package namespace 18:08:02 schme: read the blog! 18:08:06 splittist: I have no idea how I'd fit ctr, meta, super, and hyper on the three keys next to my space bar :) 18:08:13 schme, how do I start it? 18:08:22 weirdo [i=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:08:31 *rsynnott* has to swap the caps lock for ALT when using my external keybaord 18:08:51 tic_: (run-frame-top-level (make-application-frame 18:08:52 eeh 18:08:57 'input-test) 18:09:00 (it's an old IBM model M, so doesn't have the windows key, so not enough keys for macos) 18:09:02 make sure you include the eeh 18:09:09 ) 18:09:36 schme: erm, that isn't how you ACTUALLY modify keyboard layout on windows, is it? 18:09:39 (hex in registry) 18:09:50 rsynnott: I have no idea. 18:09:55 schme: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/images/kb_adv-blk720x471.jpg 18:10:02 rsynnott: I don't remember any registry last time I used windows. 18:10:04 schme, what specifically? 18:10:05 oh, sorry, splittist 18:10:19 tic_: ? 18:10:54 schme, what specifically should I look at? S-Bksp still thinks it's a dalek. 18:10:58 rsynnott: you mean 'me' me, or do you mean 'me' one? 18:11:22 luis: Yeees.. but why on earth would put super and ctrl anywhere but on the foot switches if I was using kinesis? :) 18:11:23 rsynnott: at the time I was trying to solve the problem, that was what google told me. 18:11:33 tic_: Well I was hoping it'd output something else :) 18:11:41 schme: good point. 18:11:45 ah, madness 18:11:55 schme, no, still the murderuoes(sp?) beast. 18:11:56 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:12:09 madness :( 18:12:20 rsynnott: indeed 18:12:39 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 18:13:34 splittist: Where does one put modeswitch then? 18:13:35 gee, now that I tried your modifier mappings, X thought Super_L was constantly pressed. 18:13:35 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:13:52 tic_: That's messed up. 18:14:10 Is there a place one can find out what the different modifiers (Mod1..5) actually mean? 18:14:31 they don't mean shit :) 18:14:54 apps certainly treat them in strange ways. 18:15:14 The whole X keymapping thing seems like layer upon layer of abstraction violation 18:15:29 agreed. 18:15:58 The problem is that I can't find a standard mapping either, because the xmodmaps provided with the system assume that the modifiers are mapped to their default values. 18:16:00 ok. I really want that keyboard with the GREEK keys on. 18:16:05 keyboard mapping is traditionally a little messy 18:17:38 tic_: how about the default ubuntu keyboard thingie, and remove alt, and add meta. 18:17:40 all the built-in modmaps have Mod1 = Alt_L and Mod2 = Mode_switch. 18:17:44 and see if the universe implodes :) 18:18:11 oh irght. you still need an actual meta key. 18:18:19 *tic_* tries. 18:18:40 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 18:20:21 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:20:21 deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has joined #lisp 18:21:23 tic_: you looking for /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h ? 18:21:50 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:05 bougyman, no, I want to know what keysyms Mod1..5 are mapped to as default. 18:22:30 -!- deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has quit [Client Quit] 18:22:34 xmodmap -pm? 18:22:38 (so Backspace doesn't kill X) 18:22:50 No, that prints my current settings, which are very much not default. :-) 18:23:20 what? I have Terminate_Server actually mapped to shift-backspace? Why would I do such a thing? 18:24:21 >_< 18:24:22 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:25:17 bougyman pasted "default xmodmap" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71929 18:25:46 Thanks! 18:26:09 pervonisse [n=yakov@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:27:01 hahaha 18:27:13 On a more OT note today is celebration day. :) 18:27:48 -!- bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:27:55 schme: celebration of what? 18:28:00 42? 18:28:15 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:48 ch3oh [i=ozz@2306ds2-hvi.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 18:29:46 huh_aha_hmm [n=alex@hbrn-5d82ea15.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:21 -!- ch3oh [i=ozz@2306ds2-hvi.0.fullrate.dk] has left #lisp 18:30:26 -!- mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:32:26 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:32:44 Yes 42. 18:32:55 -!- dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:32:58 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:12 mr_uggla [i=mzsillan@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 18:33:12 great, then have a fish! :P 18:33:17 plus, only 21 days til the leapsecond 18:33:26 mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:27 (leapseconds have a nasty record of breaking random things) 18:34:11 rsynnott: No I ran into a new acquaintance last week, and today I found out that not only will he not get refunded for the bottle of his I accidentally broke, he is also looking at minimum 4 years instead of minimum 2 :) 18:34:23 schadenfreude ;) 18:34:48 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:34:58 4 years what? Postgrad degree? jail? 18:35:06 same diff 18:35:59 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 18:39:18 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:40:44 rsynnott: jail :) 18:43:11 -!- splittist [n=chatzill@34.12.3.213.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit ["(quit)"] 18:43:18 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:31 -!- dublpaws [n=none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:43:34 dublpaws [n=none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:52 -!- mr_uggla_ [i=mzsillan@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:45:40 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:09 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@12.233.20.2] has joined #lisp 18:47:10 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:48:18 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:50:18 schme: eek. What'd he do? 18:50:46 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit [Operation timed out] 18:51:21 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 18:51:22 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 18:51:35 rsynnott: Not such a long story even shorter: I was riding my bike home from work and I happened to crush his alcohol bottle with my head, then I also bumped it against his boot, and didn't give him the money he politely asked me for. 18:52:18 rsynnott: And lucky for him some lady with a dog came running and scared him off, later to get caught by the police. 18:52:27 I mean the guy, not the lady. 18:53:23 ah 18:53:50 and they had him for deadly assault, now they changed it to something else.. making it minimum 4 yaars instead of 2 :) 18:53:54 So I'm happy. 18:54:12 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:58 and I think they pay / hour that I will get out of this will be much better than any other job I've tried ;) 18:55:06 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:09 phao [n=phao@189.13.133.142] has joined #lisp 18:56:37 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:58:20 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:00:03 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:00:30 schme, city? 19:00:39 -!- rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has quit [] 19:00:40 jewel: ? 19:00:51 Yes I live in a city :P 19:00:52 what city, country? 19:00:57 oh Malmö, Sweden 19:01:03 schme: you get paid for being assualted? 19:01:47 rsynnott: Yes. He will have to pay for my visit to the hospital, my three days of not working afterwards, and "sveda och värk" as we call it in swedish.. for violating my personal integrity. 19:02:03 So maybe 2-3000 euro. 19:02:13 for 10 minutes! 19:03:03 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-249.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:03:21 ah, weird 19:03:28 it'd be a purely criminal thing here 19:03:38 Hmm ok. 19:03:50 (state would pay for hospital, employer would pay for three days of not working, generally no civil compensation for violence) 19:04:04 Oh ok. 19:04:05 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:11 This is the norm here for most crimes. 19:04:26 against people. financial crime and what not is different I suppose :) 19:04:58 anryx [n=anryx@213.210.175.188.adsl.nextra.cz] has joined #lisp 19:05:06 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:14 and I'm thankful. the 30 euro for the hospital visit I don't want to pay meself :) 19:06:07 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:06:18 phadthai [n=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:19 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:22 had he walked up to me and just threatened me.. I'd get compensation.. had he murdered me, well someone else would get the compensation. Always compensation :) 19:06:47 odd 19:06:53 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 19:07:04 Hmm.. I dunno. I thought it was like that everywhere. 19:07:07 can i just go claim that everyone is threatening me adn get lots of money? :) 19:07:18 what if they can't afford to pay you because they're a homeless drunk? 19:07:22 foom: Nope. You need some evidence. 19:08:25 foom: Generally they'll put "kronofogden" at the task of collecting the monies.. or take his stuff and sell it to raise the money. If that fails all people that get sentenced for some crime also have to pay to this fund that takes care of payment of this sort if there is no monies. 19:08:39 convicted maybe is the word. 19:08:39 dunno. 19:09:19 And if they can't find the person responsible? 19:10:02 fund. 19:10:17 some home insurances also kick in before the national fund thing. 19:10:35 I think compensation seems normal :) 19:11:58 the one exception I can think of here is that if your employer is found to be at fault for exposing you to violence, they may have to financially compensate you 19:12:06 the perpetrator definitely doesn't 19:12:32 Yeah: they may have to compensate the government, but not you. 19:14:47 hmm.. 19:14:48 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:14:51 (it's possible in principle to take a civil case against someone for violence or murder, but it's rare, and would generally only happen if the criminal case fails) 19:15:04 So what if I steal 4000 euro from someone. 19:15:16 Here you'd get a fine, and you would have to compensate the person you stole it from. 19:15:16 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:15:30 schme: ah, in that case you would be required to give it back 19:15:32 most likely compensation of more than 4000 too. 19:15:35 but not for violence 19:15:45 I see.. We don't have the requirement of giving it back. 19:15:56 schme: compensations of more than the loss (punative damage) don't really exist here 19:16:05 (it's legal, but the courts don't do it) 19:16:06 I see. 19:16:13 where is here btw? 19:16:27 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:16:46 Ireland 19:17:00 k k :) 19:17:06 Not the place to get beat up in then! 19:17:55 well. 19:17:59 enough OT. I'll go to sleep :D 19:18:17 g'night! 19:21:05 }{[]}[]{}{}{]}]{[}{[]}[]{}]{[?}?[]{? 19:21:25 badkins [n=user@adsl-068-209-204-112.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:27 (sorry, my keymap acted up) 19:21:29 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 19:22:01 tic_: thought i was in #perl for a second there. 19:22:21 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:24 drewc, I scared myself! 19:26:10 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:27:12 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-8c7128ae669a0611] has joined #lisp 19:28:14 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit [Operation timed out] 19:28:56 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 19:31:05 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 19:31:34 -!- saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 19:31:51 -!- phadthai [n=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:32:41 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:28 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 19:35:53 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:35:53 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:37:07 -!- dcl is now known as spiderbyte 19:38:45 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 19:39:18 saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:39 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 19:44:27 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:29 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:46:19 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 19:48:30 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:48:41 bogonflux [n=bogonflu@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:45 -!- bogonflux [n=bogonflu@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:49:59 pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:37 Mac Users: what version of emacs do you use ? 19:54:33 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:49 auclairb: my Mac died, but I used to compile emacs from CVS. 19:55:22 luis: so gnu emacs in the terminal ? 19:55:45 I use GNU Emacs 22.1 from MacPorts. 19:56:04 auclairb: no, it used Carbon, IIRC. 19:56:11 Riastradh: in the terminal ? 19:56:19 auclairb: that'll be carbon emacs, probably 19:56:27 sorry, luis 19:56:30 GNU Emacs can run in both "GUI" and terminal modes, auclairb 19:56:37 I use carbon Emacs myself 19:56:38 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-83-168-233.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:42 I use GNU Emacs in X11 and in ttys. 19:56:56 I don't use its Carbon or Cocoa front ends. 19:57:05 the carbon port is dead in CVS. the Emacs.app work has been folded in. 19:57:07 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:57:09 used to use X11 Emacs, but got irritated with keymappings and so on 19:57:10 'configure --with-ns' 19:57:25 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:30 the Cocoa one I find unpleasant, though I can't put my finger on why 19:57:55 (note that 'make install' results in an app bundle at /path/to/emacs/nextstep/Emacs.app) 20:01:45 i tend to use the cvs build for Emacs.app, but don't spend enough time in it on a mac to have developed much opinion on it 20:01:46 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:02:21 kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:37 Is there a way to change which emacs clbuild uses, i tried aliasing "emacs" but it doesn't change the behavior ? 20:03:02 there's one in particular which 'helpfully' puts in its own weird keybindings which are allegedly trying to maknig it like any other macos app 20:03:05 ugh 20:03:23 aquamacs perhaps? 20:03:28 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:03:46 and yes, ugh. 20:03:50 auclairb: export EMACS=whatever 20:04:23 baetis-fly [n=baetis-f@pool-96-245-219-99.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:26 yep, that's the one 20:04:45 luis: ah thank you ! 20:05:01 auclairb: actually, better yet, but EMACS=whatever in your clbuild.conf 20:05:23 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 20:05:30 s/but/put 20:06:08 one annoying thing about emacs as a mac app is you only get one running copy without doing a dance 20:06:25 which may or may not fit your usage 20:06:40 but as I said, I don't use it much 20:07:00 It would if emacs' multi-window UI didn't suck so badly 20:07:42 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:07:43 can always run them in terminals, of course 20:07:47 I get totally lost whenever emacs has muliple frames open, since c-x b doesn't like showing a buffer that's showing *anywhere* else, and it's a global list. 20:08:02 *salex* nods 20:08:05 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 20:08:31 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:00 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb43ad.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 20:09:21 I always use multiple frames. Otherwise I find Slime too invasive destroying my window configuration 20:10:25 I'd love if someone would point me to a way to make frames be shown as emacs windows (i.e., instead of creating a new X11/whatever window, it will create a separate window in Emacs) 20:11:39 Otilio [n=Otilio@213.37.173.170.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:39 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11:51 -!- Otilio [n=Otilio@213.37.173.170.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:11:55 luis: what would be the right way to write EMACS="/Applications/Aquamacs Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/Aquamacs Emacs" ? 20:12:14 I like a separate buffer for slime's repl, anyway 20:15:50 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.167.223] has quit ["“As a metal band, Metallica of course has long stood up for the principles of fair play, buying your music at retail prices, ] 20:16:34 auclairb: I don't know. 20:18:18 foom: that can be changed 20:18:33 p_l: I think you might end up being able to do that with climacs 20:19:15 -!- epoch [n=FAIL@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 20:19:17 How does one resize panes? 20:19:21 sykopomp: I think Climacs will need a 100% GNU Emacs-compatible elisp compiler to make me switch... 20:19:23 (like a dragger?) 20:19:28 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 20:19:35 -!- patmatch [n=wmbot@dsl093-216-036.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:35 I just open a frame per "activity" (a SLIME frame, an org-mode frame and a Gnus frame), and then then default behavior of C-x b is just right 20:19:48 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:56 p_l: I mean. Once the thing is working properly, porting most things to climacs won't be that difficult. 20:20:45 ooh, elisp to cl compiler? 20:20:58 sykopomp: Well, when it gets good enough with basic functionality, I'd love to play with porting stuff from elisp to climacs 20:21:13 SBCL dev around? What is the IR1 attribute "unsafe"?; I can't get much from its description in knownfun.lisp. 20:21:21 -!- lexclose [n=wmarvel@dsl093-216-036.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:21:32 p_l: yeah, I'm hoping that it'll be good someday. I really would rather have climacs over emacs :( 20:21:34 Especially, an elisp compiler + multithreading would make it _much_ better 20:22:00 p_l: anyways, there's sort of an adhoc hack week getting sort of planned for january. Did I already ask you if you wanted to jump aboard? :P 20:22:29 finis [n=mkr@dh207-76-226.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 20:22:34 sykopomp: Nope, but my ability with CL is probably not gooed enough to make any difference 20:22:49 (and I don't have much time) 20:23:05 Anyway, if there are some small tasks, I might help :) 20:23:32 deeply disturbing: http://common-lisp.net/project/climacs/images/screenshots/jpegsinclimacs.png 20:23:49 Yeah, I'm hoping there'll be some fairly small tasks like minor feature additions, or small bug fixes. 20:23:52 waterh [n=waterh@114.143.39.78] has joined #lisp 20:24:09 rsynnott: the 'aroused by the new functionality' thing is pretty amusing 20:24:31 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:24:52 climacs' ability to put random lisp objects into the buffer is sadly underutilized 20:25:20 random lisp objects like what? 20:25:26 exactly. 20:25:38 t, nil, and those. 20:25:42 <3 20:26:04 hmm... what would happen if I pushed an arbitrary class? 20:26:19 The world would go under. 20:26:32 lol 20:26:41 no, i really don't get it. is this like the Self "hey, you object is this rectangle with properties you can click on"? 20:26:53 *p_l* starts climacs just to find out (if it starts at all) 20:27:26 and how come people's clim screenshots look hotter than what comes up when i run the examples? 20:27:44 I don't know what the practical issues are, as far as determining how they're displayed, what happens when you save the buffer, etc. 20:28:30 fusss: it's a trick to keep the uninitiated out 20:28:53 fusss: my advice is to (require :mcclim-freetype) and (climi::use-pixie) 20:29:21 climi ? 20:29:30 what would be the best way to access Climacs buffers from it? 20:29:33 dcrawford: nickname for clim-internals 20:31:03 -!- ths_ [n=ths@p549AF24F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:31:03 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:31:03 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:31:29 Wasn't someone's nickname climi or similiar? 20:31:59 cliini, but he hasn't been around in ages 20:32:30 ah right! 20:32:51 if you're going to put random lisp objects in an editable buffer, i think you will end up using an object store to keep track of interactive modification, and you will probably need some kind of acceptable pretty printing (like scaffold generation based on slot types; # just doesn't cut it, im) 20:34:48 heh, the climacs eval command is cute. Too bad it prints the object and inserts the text instead of inserting the raw value (okay, maybe you usually don't ever want that, but too bad for the sake of testing this) 20:35:23 dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 20:36:17 patmatch [n=wmbot@dsl093-216-036.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:12 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:37:19 brill_ [n=brill@0x57386060.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:38:29 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:38 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:39:06 sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:42 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:43:29 tcr: I think unsafe means that we can't pass stack-allocated data to the function, because they might escape the dynamic extent (as the general comment notes, IR1 is interested in escaping analysis). 20:43:32 -!- huh_aha_hmm [n=alex@hbrn-5d82ea15.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 20:43:46 climacs seemingly won't let me open files through the symlink to my mcclim directory. shocking that a CL program does the wrong thing with symlinks.. 20:43:58 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:44:29 *hefner* cvs updates mcclim, compiles updates for the current swank into his running climacs, from climacs. 20:44:50 niiice 20:46:01 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:47:47 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:47:55 pkhuong: I just sent a mail to the mailing list and requesting updating the comments; they mostly stem from CMUCL times. 20:48:31 s/requesting/requested/ 20:48:44 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:56 ths_ [n=ths@X4f4a.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:39 -!- ths_ is now known as ths 20:49:52 pkhuong: That makes sense. But I don't think it's restricted to numbers and functions anymore, as structs are stack-allocatable, too. (And if you look at copy-structure's defknown, you see it being declared UNSAFE.) 20:50:35 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 20:51:26 valiza1 [n=haroldo@r190-133-150-110.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:52:19 hefner pasted "climacs eval/insert fun" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71935 20:52:48 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-150-157.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:52:53 tcr: right, that comment seems to date from when only closures and numbers were DX-able. 20:53:09 so here's what I mean: you can do M-x Eval and Insert *package*, then M-x Describe Object at Point on the result, and it describes the package object 20:54:24 nikodemus would probably know for sure. 20:54:37 daniel__ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 20:55:03 ``Erik [n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org] has joined #lisp 20:55:37 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 20:55:55 is climacs any good? 20:56:21 can it already serve as an emacs replacement? 20:56:36 Maybe if you don't do much with Emacs. 20:56:56 Anyway, inserting random objects just shows them as #. 20:57:04 I think they might be selectable as CLIM presentations, but maybe not. 20:57:11 -!- Athas` is now known as Athas 20:58:11 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:58:12 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:58:29 -!- valiza2 [n=haroldo@r190-133-130-122.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:00:43 -!- dankna [n=d@c-71-230-27-230.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:00:55 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:01:20 elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has joined #lisp 21:03:43 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:04:37 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb43ad.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:05:04 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:06:35 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:10 -!- finis [n=mkr@dh207-76-226.xnet.hr] has quit ["..."] 21:07:55 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 21:10:20 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:13:46 saikat pasted "Simple Test" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71940 21:14:09 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:09 -!- kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:14:33 saikat: hmm? 21:14:34 Sorry if this is a terribly noob question - is there a way in SLDB to get access to local variables (like the function parameters)? For example in http://paste.lisp.org/display/71940, when I hit the break and try to then evaluate in frame (by hitting e) and then just type x, i get an unbounded variable error. 21:14:59 saikat: What implementation are you using? 21:15:03 sbcl 21:15:11 on os x 21:15:14 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-83-168-233.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:15:15 how old of a slime? 21:15:30 hm i installed from a binary a couple weeks back 21:15:35 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-83-168-233.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:39 slime 2.0 binary? 21:15:46 let me check 21:16:44 nevermind i lied about binary i got it from cvs 21:16:45 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:16:50 i can just update if that might be the problem 21:16:59 pkhuong: What is constant-folded in this context? Inlining? 21:17:23 i just wasnt sure if there is some sldb thing i didnt know about - are you able to access local variables just by evaluating in frame? 21:17:53 shouldn't you be able to see x from the slime inspector? 21:19:51 hm well 21:19:54 saikat: You can press t or RET on frames to see local variables. 21:19:54 in my backtrace 21:20:04 right the thing is 21:20:07 my local variable 21:20:10 doesnt say x 21:20:24 saikat: Make sure that the debug settings you used to compile the functions are high enough 21:20:33 but SB-DEBUG::ARG-0 = 5 21:20:53 was that the value you called it with? 21:20:56 yeah 21:20:59 Right, your debug settings are not high enough, so this kind of information was thrown away during compilation 21:21:05 ahhh ok 21:21:11 thank you 21:21:18 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:22:33 just ran it myself and when pressed enter a few times: 21:22:35 Arguments: 21:22:35 0 (X): 42 21:23:14 and pressing enter on that line brings up more info about it 21:23:51 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:24:45 testsan [n=testsan@p4239-ipbf1008marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:24:49 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:43 dcrawford: and, found what it means? We've been waiting quite long for our secret alien technology to solve that one... 21:30:32 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-80.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 21:31:25 don't you know, it's 6 times 9 21:31:33 Zoba [i=Zoba@wva4448rn.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:33:11 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:18 -!- waterh [n=waterh@114.143.39.78] has quit ["later"] 21:34:42 Is there a quick way to turn the contents of a variable into a string, sort of like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/71942#1 I know it can be done with format easily, but I didn't know if there was some combination of ' and quotes or some short way to do it 21:35:34 (princ-to-string '(1 2)) ? 21:36:22 (let ((*print-base* 13)) (princ-to-string (* 6 9))) 21:36:55 Ah, alright. I didn't know if there was a one or two character way to do it. 21:37:10 (write-to-string (* 6 9) :base 13) is shorter 21:37:10 dcrawford: you lost me with (eql (* 9 6) 42), in what base have you been counting? 21:37:14 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:37:23 look again 21:37:33 done ,thanks :) 21:38:30 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:38:33 Zoba: (defun f (x) (princ-to-string x)) (f '(1 2)) 21:38:46 Actually, I just figured it out. `, will do it 21:39:04 oh wait, nevermind 21:39:06 will do what? 21:39:10 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 21:39:45 No it doesm't, I misread what it returned 21:40:18 Zoba: is (write-to-string var) what you're looking for? 21:41:36 No, it does what I need of course, however I was just looking for a way to do it very shorthand. I'm having to use a lot of write-to-strings in what I'm writing and things are looking bulky, so I was looking for a shorter way to do it 21:42:14 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:26 Zoba: (defun w (var) (write-to-string var)) then (w var) ? 21:42:39 Yeah, thats what I'll do 21:42:40 thanks 21:43:18 tc-rucho: thanks for repeating 21:43:21 -!- pervonisse [n=yakov@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:43:47 stassats`, thanks as well 21:43:50 stassats`: actually, your version vas slightly different :P 21:44:22 pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 21:44:23 stassats`: c'mon, just checked the channel, saw that and replied since I thought the question has not been answered yet 21:44:26 stassats`: (: 21:44:29 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:45 tc-rucho: it's ok, i was joking 21:47:06 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:40 Kopophex [n=kopophex@dtp-1.dyn.cs.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:49:54 -!- badkins [n=user@adsl-068-209-204-112.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 21:53:13 tcr: when all the arguments are constant, the compiler calls the function and replaces the call with the return value(s) 21:53:25 (format t "~A" '(a b c)) shows a b and c very spaced out, how do I tell it to print exactly like (a b c) ? 21:56:26 does ~w print differently? 21:56:53 stassats`: Yea that fixed it, thanks :D 21:57:13 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 21:57:19 -!- brill_ [n=brill@0x57386060.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:57:26 -!- brill [n=brill@0x57386060.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:58:17 and your *print-pretty* should be nil, i don't remember whether ~a binds it to T 21:58:20 stassats`: Oh wierd that only sometimes fixes it, if the list is 4 long it goes crazy again 21:59:26 kzar: that's due to *print-pretty* 21:59:30 stassats`: Ah cool yea 21:59:42 stassats`: Yea I typed it before you said the other thing 21:59:45 stassats`: It works great now 22:00:29 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:01:36 -!- testsan [n=testsan@p4239-ipbf1008marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:01:46 cesco_paris [n=tfb@81-64-212-95.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 22:02:44 any mcclim folks around? 22:07:48 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:09:28 -!- tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@unaffiliated/tc-rucho] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 22:11:20 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has left #lisp 22:13:09 is there a simple library that would easily let me display a matrix of color-values on the screen? I currently output my image through zpng, but I would like something a bit more interactive 22:14:28 -!- budden [n=Miranda@89.222.171.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:14:55 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:02 JOHNNY_BOI [n=f4Gg0t_4@CPE0012170da61f-CM001bd7cbde3a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:03 madnificent: what do you mean by "matrix of color-values on the screen"? 22:16:05 LIST SUCKS 22:16:11 !ops | JOHNNY_BOI 22:16:16 D: DIDNT WORK 22:16:23 -!- davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:23 -!- JOHNNY_BOI [n=f4Gg0t_4@CPE0012170da61f-CM001bd7cbde3a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 22:16:30 wow 22:16:33 that was amazing 22:16:35 ly bad 22:16:41 ahem .. "lisp suths" 22:17:03 Don't discuss trolls/spambots, please. 22:17:19 madnificent: you mean like a colorwheel or something? 22:17:25 tic_: what discussion do you see? 22:17:37 tic_: I was commenting - no discussion :P 22:17:51 merlincorey, same thing. you're wasting precious vertical space. so let's stop now. 22:18:10 tic_: increase your number of lines or find the scroll key? 22:18:29 but I don't disagree with you in principle, I'm just saying this further discussion is unnessecary 22:18:30 merlincorey, I'd rather not be forced to manually filter out what is useful discussion and what is not. 22:18:38 *hefner* wonders what the best way would be to wait simultaneously on a condition variable or various file descriptors in sbcl 22:18:51 hefner, FFI select? 22:19:32 cesco_paris: I am around. 22:20:01 <``Erik> select(2) only knows fd's, not variables :/ 22:20:18 does kqueue (or whatever it's called) deal with that? 22:20:30 epoll maybe? 22:20:43 (while we're at it) 22:20:46 all y'all (merlincorey, tic_) can stfu about manners in my book if you don't set your real names to something identifiable 22:21:08 cesco_paris: you have some issue identifying "merlin"? 22:21:21 -!- rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:22:02 rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 22:22:36 merlincorey: I uh .. noticed he "corey" bit about 0.001 seconds after hitting return ... 22:22:52 Hmm, #lisp is getting more and more strange. 22:23:35 Athas: is there any sort of system editor in mcclim? 22:24:09 cesco_paris, I don't feel like I have to motivate my choice of nick to you, but I will not be spoken to in that tone. 22:25:21 -!- tic_ is now known as tic 22:25:25 hefner: Make a self-to-sefl pipe; set a listener on the condition variable that sends the content across the pipe as a complete sexpr; make an fd handler on the other end of the pipe. 22:25:55 tic: good for you. Still no realname. 22:26:54 cesco_paris: if I were to go that route, I'd sooner just use the pipe to wake the other side up, and not send anything of interest across it. indeed, if I use it that way, I'm not sure I need a condition variable at all. 22:27:37 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-64.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:28:40 hefner: if you go with pipes, use _named_ pipes or stfu about IPC manners ;-) 22:28:49 haha 22:29:36 hefner: well, there you go, use pipes. sbcl is deeply adapted to bsd-style ipc. It would be nice if epoll/kpoll/etc were integrated in serve-event, but it's pretty usable as is. If you have an fd, you're good. 22:29:52 oh, I don't believe in using serve-event. 22:29:58 cesco_paris: System editor? No, I don't think so. 22:30:19 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:30:36 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@199.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:30:46 Athas: I meant in the sense of defsystem/asdf editor and/or some sort of user-friendly project editor ... ? 22:31:12 hefner: uh, if you use streams, you don't have a choice. 22:31:15 *beach* doesn't get it, so goes to bed. 22:31:34 No, nobody has written anything like that yet. 22:31:53 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:54 *cesco_paris* snickers to self evilly 22:31:56 _8david` [n=user@port-83-236-3-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:20 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:32:29 Y'all on notice. 22:32:46 cesco_paris: sure, but it doesn't mean I have to inflict them upon myself unnecessarily (e.g. for a network socket) 22:32:53 hey, i've got an offtopic question 22:32:59 I can't guarantee that the ltk world will have a 3D editor for such before the end of the year... 22:33:16 "