00:00:11 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:10 I spend way too much time dealing with XML because people like to use it to encode metadata, and the TEI is all xml... 00:01:43 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-155-98.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:01:49 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:03:04 foom: perfctr2 is still maintained, afaict. 00:05:58 -!- lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:06:57 dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 00:07:06 pkhuong: got any pointers? 00:07:54 http://user.it.uu.se/~mikpe/linux/perfctr/current/ 00:09:33 so I talked to martin who's actually trying to use this stuff: he says he's been using perfctr with the PAPI library and it seems to work the best/easiest of any of this crap 00:09:59 yeah, PAPI seems like the sanest thing around. 00:10:29 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:12:17 pkhuong: sorry, sanest thing around for what purpose? 00:12:44 -!- kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:12:51 mogunus: messing with performance counters, especially when you plan on moving your code around. 00:13:08 pkhuong: ah. thanks, I was curious. 00:14:40 Oh well, I'm using perfmon2 now. I'll look into perfctr/PAPI if it gives me too much trouble. 00:17:13 anyway, inserting a call to some C routine right after (collect-garbage gen) has the advantage of being executed while every other thread is sleeping, so you shouldn't miss too many events. 00:17:13 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:19:51 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 00:20:00 Hmm, IIUC, PAPI uses perfmon2 anyway. 00:20:38 luis: it's an interface on top of several kernel modules. On x86, they recommend perfctr. 00:20:40 So, I guess I could use it right now. 00:22:44 chrisdon` [n=user@82-33-137-16.cable.ubr02.wiga.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:22:59 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8aa0-124.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:23:20 -!- chrisdone [n=user@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:23:23 -!- chrisdon` is now known as chrisdone 00:24:11 dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-013-057.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:27 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:00 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:20 is there a good command-line mp3 player included in slack? 00:33:25 wrong channel 00:33:30 google native client uses SDL. i saw google donated to SDL several months ago and dismissed it as a gesture of generosity, heh. 00:34:50 huh? OpenCL *only* specifies a C-level language, and then tacks on 15 restrictions (which do make sense, e.g., irreducible flow graphs don't have to be supported). Oh well, looks like an interesting target. The abstraction is a bit leaky, but that's not too bad. 00:36:34 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:37:00 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:23 -!- dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-015-079.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:57 mogunus: http://packages.slackware.it/search.php?v=current&t=1&q=mp3 00:38:10 i've been a slackware since '98 :-) 00:39:31 fusss: haha, sweet. 00:39:35 my v12 box has mpg321 00:39:48 s/slackware/slacker/ :-P 00:40:03 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:04 slack was the second distro I tried, after redhat. 00:40:36 I really like it. 00:40:41 It's very... sane. 00:41:08 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 00:41:08 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:42:34 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:31 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.72.93] has quit [Success] 00:45:34 sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:39 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 00:47:48 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:32 a-s [n=user@92.80.72.93] has joined #lisp 00:52:37 -!- epoch [n=FAIL@p3m/member/epoch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:54:36 zdennis [n=zdennis@68-188-218-129.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:48 topo [n=topo@235.pool85-58-26.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 00:55:47 where should one look for lisp libraries? 00:56:13 zdennis: cliki.net would be a good starting point. 00:56:19 thank you luis 00:56:33 zdennis: also, clbuild. 00:58:06 i am wondering does cl-ppcre deal properly with unicode escape sequences? 01:00:31 HET2: it can work with unicode, but there's no support for special syntax. You can use Weitz's CL-INTERPOL package for that. 01:00:43 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 01:01:24 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:01:52 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:02:03 hrm 01:04:38 -!- zdennis [n=zdennis@68-188-218-129.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has quit ["leaving"] 01:06:49 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:07:33 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:31 How can I make a function that will modify the value of the parameters passed by the caller ? 01:09:17 auclairb: you can't. Pass an explicit reference if you want. 01:09:33 How can i pass an explicit reference ? 01:10:11 Pass an object around, set some slot in it. Or use dynamically scoped variables if it makes sense. 01:10:42 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:11:05 pkhuong, yes thank you! 01:12:42 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.72.93] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:15:17 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:56 ths_ [n=ths@X46fd.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 01:19:11 handle-redisplay is a maximally confusing name for a function involved in repaint 01:22:45 auclairb pasted "Does this make sense?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71830 01:23:22 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:24:12 clhs define-modify-macro 01:24:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_2.htm 01:24:35 -!- ths [n=ths@p549AF321.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:26:21 Is it possible to define a clsql view class that has a column of type Serial for use with postgresql? 01:27:01 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has quit [] 01:27:59 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 01:29:05 luis: are CFFI pointers raw SAPs on sbcl? 01:29:44 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:05 pkhuong: yes. 01:30:35 -!- ushdf [i=ushdfgak@syru153-183.syr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 01:31:04 why do you ask? 01:31:42 I think we reserve the right to copy them willy-nilly, so putting a finalizer on an SAP isn't a good idea. 01:32:18 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Client Quit] 01:32:50 Why would you want to do that? 01:33:59 nikodemus suggested finalizing a CFFI pointer to handle deallocation. If CFFI's pointers are SAP, that's pretty lossy. Or do you mean the copying? That's mostly because we have a more efficient representation, as with numbers, and being able to return fresh copies makes things simpler. 01:34:27 Sorry, I meant the finalizing. 01:36:46 I see, I wonder what LiamH's use case is. 01:37:34 optikalmouse [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279398477.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:37:47 ugh, trivial-garbage's documentation sucks. :-) 01:38:22 ugh 's documentation sucks :p 01:39:13 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-175-126.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:22 luis: how does it suck? I'm looking at http://www.cliki.net/trivial-garbage and it seems clear enough? 01:39:47 gambit has a nice interface for finalizers and foreign pointers, but I'm not sure how it could be extended to a generational gc. 01:40:11 optikalmouse: tg:finalize's docstring doesn't seem right for some reason. 01:40:57 ths [n=ths@X6a11.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 01:41:11 luis: ah :S 01:41:31 -!- ths_ [n=ths@X46fd.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:41:51 Has anyone tried making a x86-32 SBCL dev. environment on purely 64bit machine? 01:41:51 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:41:54 optikalmouse: that might be true for CLISP (perhaps?) but it sounds unlikely. 01:42:14 (well, some 32bit libs are there in binary form) 01:42:29 c|mell [n=cmell@cad439-104.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:42:53 p_l: You need the full toolchain, but that's pretty much it. 01:43:04 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:43:16 pkhuong: So, as long as I can call gcc with 32bit target, it will be fine? 01:43:32 Even if 99% of the system is pure 64bit? 01:43:42 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:43:59 p_l: you'll also have to use SBCL_ARCH=x86. 01:44:29 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:42 ok 01:44:50 luis: yeah, that's, erh, fishy. Still, Don't Do It (: 01:45:23 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:45:54 -!- saikat [n=saikat@h-67-100-172-234.nycmny83.covad.net] has quit [] 01:46:50 heh, `apt-get install clisp' recommends sbcl 01:47:22 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:29 pstickne [n=pstickne@199.237.80.119] has joined #lisp 01:49:31 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:54:34 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:04:01 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-db57be91a9bd4150] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:04:05 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-82-81-30-92.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:04:38 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-82-81-30-92.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:05 saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:56 qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 02:09:23 crod [n=cmell@cad439-232.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:11:33 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cad439-104.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:16:56 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.87.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:17:29 luis: are you claiming that is not a good recommendation? ;) 02:17:47 -!- qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:19:10 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:20:49 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:23:17 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:17 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:23:52 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:11 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 02:33:33 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.137] has joined #lisp 02:34:40 you really can't beat clisp's start up time 02:35:25 rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 02:36:00 fusss: might be possible. 02:36:19 small core and a -quiet flag? 02:37:01 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@199.237.80.119] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:38:26 decently sized cores is a required condition, clearly. Most implementations provide --quiet or something similar. 02:39:19 TDT [n=TDT@143.108.177.207.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:23 Something I came across recently was dealing with the if operator. All the examples I've seen thus far have one operation in in the true and sometimes another in the then portion - but what if we wanted to do two+ operations? For example, say if (> 1 (length myarray)) then do a print statement, then to return a variable. No else in this case, but with those two operations, I receive an illegal function call. Am I right on this? 02:42:23 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:42:59 TDT: you want progn or cond. 02:43:33 You can't just put two expressions in parentheses; how could we know whether it's two expressions or a single one? 02:43:52 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:15 Can format print floats only in base 10 ? 02:44:33 yes 02:44:34 pkhuong: Yeah, what I tried doing was something like ((format t "foo") (return null)), but yeah, I will look up those - I don't think I've gotten quite that far yet in the book, but I love experimenting hehe 02:45:31 TDT: progn is for the general case of "have two, need one". cond is a substitute for if which has an "implicit progn" in it 02:45:45 many operators have implicit progns in their syntax, e.g. defun 02:49:18 anyone know if mel-base handles parsing mbox files and extracting messages? 02:49:57 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.87.8] has joined #lisp 02:50:11 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["gone"] 02:50:39 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:56:56 -!- gtasso [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-692fe7849f7473be] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 02:59:19 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0FB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:22 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 03:04:43 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:06:23 -!- replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:07:08 (call-with-measurements '(:tot-cyc :l2-dcm) (lambda ())) => (:TOT-CYC 2818 :L2-DCM 45) 03:07:30 I wonder if that overhead is acceptable. 03:07:41 chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:43 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 03:11:43 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:12:11 luis: ouch... How about moving the parsing to compile time? 03:13:46 pkhuong: well, the conversion to/from keywords happens after/before reading the values. Do you think it has any influence? 03:13:52 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:03 I don't know. But that's a lot of cache misses (: 03:15:17 or accesses in general. 03:16:14 The C version does 17. 03:18:11 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C654.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:18:22 grrrrrr, who wrote this? "Requirements: A Common Lisp interpreter". http://code.google.com/p/rtm-lisp-api/ 03:18:33 mornin' 03:18:53 I guess it depends on what I'll be measuring: (call-with-measurements '(:tot-cyc :l2-dcm) (lambda () (require :cl-ppcre))) => (:TOT-CYC 10466527661 :L2-DCM 32650179) 03:23:45 morn schme_ 03:24:28 luis: what are the median & average values like on the noop test case over say ~1k samples? 03:26:03 good question 03:26:59 fusss: why the grrr? 03:27:21 optikalmouse: "... interpreter". 03:27:31 right 03:27:40 Common Lisp implementations interpret code 03:27:44 I see nothing wrong with that! ;p 03:27:56 fusss: shoot the dude a nice email about it? 03:27:59 my interpreter is a xeon, you insensitive clod 03:29:24 simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:38:31 -!- crod [n=cmell@cad439-232.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:39:22 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.249.115] has joined #lisp 03:39:54 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:39:58 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:40:00 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-155-98.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:59 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:20 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 03:43:20 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:44:15 peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:28 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:13 pkhuong: interesting. (measure-overhead '(:tot-cyc :l2-dcm) 1000) => (:MEAN (:TOT-CYC 889.2 :L2-DCM 0.064) :MEDIAN (:TOT-CYC 859.0 :L2-DCM 0.0)) 03:47:40 Just noise, then. Pretty much every level, from the cpu up, has some source of noise, so that's not too surprising. 03:48:22 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:49:15 crod [n=cmell@d288be-161.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:51:21 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 03:52:44 the L2-DCM count drops to 0 by the 3rd call. 03:53:50 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-175-126.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:54:21 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-34.residence.usherb.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:54:24 luis: you'll get some after GCs too. 03:54:26 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-184-157.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:34 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [] 03:54:40 Good morning. 03:54:52 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 03:54:56 baetis-fly [n=baetis-f@pool-96-245-219-99.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:57 mornin' beach 03:55:11 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:25 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.130.44] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:57:40 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:57:59 mornin' beach 03:58:52 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:59:17 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:59:38 sykopomp: I told Athas about your idea of hacking on Climacs. 04:00:02 oh? What'd he think/ 04:00:33 wasabi____ [n=wasabi@ntoska205253.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:01:06 sykopomp: He didn't say much about it. I was hoping he would stick around until then, because he could provide a lot of help. 04:01:42 that would be nice. I'm still asking around to try and get more people interested in it. Only 3 of us so far. 04:01:56 that's not bad. 04:03:17 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:32 it's pretty bad when you're all noobs 04:05:16 eh? 04:12:11 -!- topo [n=topo@235.pool85-58-26.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 04:12:34 -!- wasabi___ [n=wasabi@ntoska205253.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:14:50 what is swine/swank? 04:15:45 swank is the Common Lisp side of SLIME. 04:16:49 i see 04:16:54 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.249.115] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:17:26 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:24 rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:34 well if i ever get any good with CL i'll help with Climacs :P 04:25:11 or at least use it 04:25:31 felideon: why don't you try joining the hack week? :) 04:25:31 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:25:53 you have at least about a month before it happens, and you can work on some small part. It's a great way to get experience with actual code. 04:25:53 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:21 what's the hack week? 04:26:36 kidd1 [n=kidd@72.Red-79-147-10.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:04 There's a sort of hack week getting sort of planned for sometime around January. To work on climacs and McClim 04:27:15 -!- kidd [n=kidd@129.Red-88-17-163.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:27:20 ah i see 04:27:32 probably relatively small things like bug fixes and minor feature additions, whatever people figure they'll work on (from what's available) 04:28:07 i see. so you're using Climacs for Lisp programming? 04:28:19 nope. I'm not really involved with the project. 04:28:36 but I'd love to use mcclim and climacs more, and I have a few friends who are interested in doing so as well. 04:28:48 so we figured it would be nice to give climacs and mcclim a little boost 04:29:02 even if we won't be actual full devs 04:29:07 gotch 04:29:27 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:29:37 -!- doxtor [i=mitja@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:29:56 could someone tell me what is the best way to make a dynamic web site bookmarkable? :-P 04:30:21 isn't that what entry points are for? 04:30:26 I already know how to clean up messy URLs with mod rewrite 04:30:49 actually, I don't know anything about web stuff, so I'll shut up ;p 04:31:37 well dunno about Lisp, but the only way to be able to bookmark something or link it would be for the page to use query strings 04:32:22 i think it was REST that does what I want, not sure though 04:32:46 ah, no idea 04:33:58 say, I want to give a client a link like example.com/products/widgets/gadgets/acme/acmepro and i want that to expand to example.com/products?q="search"&type="widgets"&model="gadgets"&make="acme", etc. 04:35:13 oh. dunno :) you'd probably ahve to do something fancy in Apache 04:36:28 i don't wanna run apache, i wanna run UCW+nginx+lisp-on-lines, like all the cool kids. also, ajax services with parensript, again, like all the cool kids. 04:36:47 fusss: It certainly wasn't REST 04:37:01 what's it then, p_l 04:37:06 well your problem is wanting to be like the cool kids :P 04:37:13 just kidding. i really don't know then. 04:37:18 sorry. 04:37:53 felideon: don't worry, p_l is gonna write for me a small tutorial using the cool-kids' tools, right p_l? 04:38:19 fusss: What you want is a good URL system (a good dispatcher with proper rules will take care of that) and proper separation of state, so that when someone makes a GET request on this URL he 1) won't modify anything 2) will get proper output 04:38:25 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:38:55 p_l: that's what REST is, IIRC, and I read the bloody Fielding Dissertation 04:39:18 *fusss* more code, less dissertations! 04:39:31 your example link could be broken down (using Rails-style code) to: /products/:type/:model/:make/:blah etc. 04:39:38 is clisp supposed o fail any of the ANSI-TESTs like file/pathname tests? 04:39:58 fusss: REST model simply makes it easier to support it, but no-one says it is required 04:39:59 i mean known to fail any 04:40:33 p_l: oh, ok. 04:40:33 newb Emacs question: howcome i can get tab-completion in REPL but not in a Lisp mode buffer? 04:40:53 felideon: are you sure it's not emacs-lisp mode? :-) 04:40:55 felideon: C-c TAB 04:40:57 felideon: because in your buffer, tab indents, and C-c i completes. 04:41:10 felideon: because tab indents in buffers. Press M-TAB instead to get completion in the buffer 04:41:22 fusss: Basically, as long as your dispatcher transforms the URL into a usable call, you are ready to go 04:41:24 You can (define-key slime-mode-map (kbd "TAB") 'slime-indent-and-complete-symbol) in your .emacs 04:41:25 or M-/ I think also completes the symbol 04:41:36 sykopomp: M-/ is different; it works by looking at open buffers. 04:41:51 pkhuong: what about M-TAB? 04:42:52 sykopomp: apart from being hard to use (there's a window manager in the way), that triggers SLIME's completion. 04:43:12 pkhuong: did you mean C-c C-i as opposed C-c i? 04:43:24 fusss: You can also play with interesting combinations like /products/search/type;widgets/and/model;gadgets etc. :) 04:43:31 beach: probably. 04:43:35 pkhuong: my WM doesn't use M-TAB, so it's never bothered me :) 04:43:38 sykopomp: yeah M-TAB switches windows for me 04:44:17 M-TAB switches between Win32 and Linux for me :-) 04:44:29 Xming rocks! 04:45:07 kato [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:45:17 -!- kato [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:45:20 pkhuong: thanks. C-c C-i works 04:45:43 *sykopomp* is a stumpwm user. 04:45:47 smeghead [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:46:43 -!- smeghead [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:47:08 smeghead [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:47:17 C-c TAB also 04:47:20 *how does it matter what runs outside the emacs window* 04:50:07 -!- smeghead [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:50:44 smeghead [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:50:56 -!- smeghead [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:52:01 smeg-head [n=smeg-hea@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:52:16 -!- smeg-head [n=smeg-hea@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:53:30 smeeeeghead [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:54:06 -!- smeeeeghead [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:54:30 smeeeeghead [n=smeeeegh@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:55:02 -!- smeeeeghead is now known as rimer 04:56:55 -!- rimer [n=smeeeegh@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:56:55 porous, poorly packed pixels let the piss in. emacs must be run on a solid platform. 04:58:01 smeghead123 [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:58:16 -!- smeghead123 is now known as smeghead75 04:58:22 -!- smeghead75 [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:59:09 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:59:34 smeghead75 [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:00:27 -!- smeghead75 is now known as smeghead 05:02:31 -!- smeghead [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 05:04:34 seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E469D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:39 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.10] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:06:35 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0FB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:06:39 smeghead75 [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:06:55 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:07:11 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:09:15 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:15 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:13:29 divinebovine [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 05:19:39 -!- mulligan` [n=user@e178029092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:20:58 -!- smeghead75 [n=smeghead@i58-94-207-238.s02.a022.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit ["Riece/3.1.1 Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux)"] 05:21:12 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1D2D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:21:23 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E475DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:21:51 segv [n=mb@p4FC1C6A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:43 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 05:25:53 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:27:12 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:27:22 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:32 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:11 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178029092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:33:00 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 05:34:07 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:35:35 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:34 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:57 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-184-157.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57:39 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [] 06:16:37 garvin_ [n=garvin@210.75.16.226] has joined #lisp 06:17:36 garvinwang 06:18:05 -!- garvin_ [n=garvin@210.75.16.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:18:51 anyone using cl-mime? 06:19:58 garvin [n=garvin@210.75.16.226] has joined #lisp 06:26:58 fusss: i do 06:27:28 H4ns: i was gonna ask on usage/doc but the library is some awesomely well written code, very self explanatory 06:27:38 do you use it to parse mbox files? 06:28:30 jestocost [n=cmell@d288be-161.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:28:59 fusss: no, i use it to generate multipart/mime messages 06:30:13 i just wanna void writing some half-baked regex based mbox parser. i recon cl-mime has some bits of code for me to use somewhere. 06:30:31 -!- crod [n=cmell@d288be-161.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:30:42 just wanna get at the message body 06:33:08 fusss: i've only read enough of cl-mime to be able to generate stuff, and i found it frustrating that there is no documentation. but have fun. 06:34:01 waterh [i=3ba24401@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b71373abfa4c488d] has joined #lisp 06:34:53 (with-open-file (msg ..) (parse-mime msg)) ==> # just need to find the accessors for the message parts. it's got the mime class has all the slots, except for body/content/text or whatever else it's called. 06:35:11 too much envelope info and little on the message itself :-P 06:35:46 Ragnaroek [i=54a642ca@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-64802387ad6cdd79] has joined #lisp 06:36:04 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["brb"] 06:48:29 crod [n=cmell@cb8a16-137.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:49:59 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@d288be-161.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:50:37 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:04:25 tgoodsell [n=tgoodsel@pool-71-126-240-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:47 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 07:11:04 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 07:20:03 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:24:32 good morning 07:25:15 morning 07:28:05 Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:28:14 morning ppls 07:30:22 elderK [n=elderK@203-167-171-118.dialup.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 07:31:32 -!- demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig110.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:33:52 -!- elderK [n=elderK@203-167-171-118.dialup.clear.net.nz] has left #lisp 07:34:50 hey, anyone know of a library (or piece of a library) that does parameter encoding for a uri query string? 07:35:39 mega1 [n=mega@53d82817.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:37:37 tgoodsell: what do you mean by parameter encoding? 07:37:47 -!- sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:37:48 -!- garvin [n=garvin@210.75.16.226] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:37:49 do you mean url?x=3&y=4 07:37:52 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:37:53 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:38:06 yup 07:39:03 including things like encoding lists as url?foo=1&foo=2&foo=3 and handling all the escaping rules that I will forget to implement if I roll my own solution. 07:39:49 tgoodsell: you can try PURI: http://puri.b9.com/documentation.html 07:40:08 there's also CL-URI, but I've never tried it: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-uri/ 07:40:42 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.167.223] has joined #lisp 07:40:55 hmm; cl-uri looks interesting. puri seemed to punt on the query portion, but the docs are so sparse it's hard to tell. 07:41:21 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:41:35 if it's open source or whatever take a look at some of the code? :S 07:41:40 well, cl-uri actually seems to have the same problem. 07:41:48 that's how I've learned more about some Smalltalk libs :-/ 07:42:21 was hoping to avoid reading code, at least tonight/this morning. 07:42:46 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 07:43:09 it's lisp code, it's good for the brain :) 07:44:12 tgoodsell: I think the PURI lib could actually work well for the query encoding. 07:44:20 trust me, I've read plenty of lisp code in the last 16 hours. 07:44:23 minion, memo for attila_lendvai: could you help me a bit? PURGE-INSTANCE hangs in newest build 07:44:23 Remembered. I'll tell attila_lendvai when he/she/it next speaks. 07:44:39 I just quickly searched the Franz version of it and it has "query" in all the right places :p 07:44:57 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:45:21 ah, well. I've got half a working solution already. I'll use my own for now, and go back and look at the other options later. 07:45:49 this seems to be one of those problems that's too small for anyone to have published a real solid, documented solution. 07:46:29 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a642ca@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-64802387ad6cdd79] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 07:47:07 tgoodsell: well the source is there for both CL-URI and PURI. I would think they have what you're looking for and there's no point in re-inventing the wheel :/ 07:48:04 right, but I'm working on demo deadline, so a half-arsed implementation that I know handles the cases I need is better than a "complete" solution that's going to take time to figure out. 07:48:18 true 07:48:19 it's already clear from glancing at the source that cl-uri doesn't do quite what I want. 07:48:51 sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:55 I'll definitely integrate one of those two, but not until after the demo in 12 hours. 07:49:05 thanks for the pointers, though. don't know how I missed cl-uri. 07:55:14 Morning. 08:00:34 I need a coffee. 08:00:38 and so does tgoodsell. 08:01:00 *tgoodsell* needs sleep, but caffeine may do for now. 08:01:31 you know what would help? upbeat music. 08:03:34 minion, memo for attila_lendvai: hang trace at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71846 08:03:34 Remembered. I'll tell attila_lendvai when he/she/it next speaks. 08:05:23 yay, memos are more fun than email 08:05:31 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a16-137.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:11:06 -!- O_4_ [n=souchan@ip-118-90-38-248.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 08:12:25 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:12:30 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:45 -!- esden [n=esden@91-67-156-166-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 08:14:32 minion, memo for attila_lendvai: looks like the ensure-exported cell got called despite my calling #'export-to-rdbms on all defined classes. but why? 08:14:32 Remembered. I'll tell attila_lendvai when he/she/it next speaks. 08:14:50 HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:17:28 NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 08:17:57 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:18:37 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 08:18:48 crod [n=cmell@cb8a16-137.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:18:55 -!- QinGW [n=user@220.231.9.237] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:21:07 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 08:22:18 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #lisp 08:26:11 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 08:28:23 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:30:38 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA5E2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:13 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 08:33:19 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 08:34:15 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0FB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:14 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a16-137.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:38:38 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:38:50 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.87.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:41:17 -!- gaja [n=Gabriel@c-3481e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["leaving"] 08:41:18 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:29 gaja [n=Gabriel@c-3481e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:44:22 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 08:44:31 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:48:38 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has quit [] 08:48:45 _9david [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 08:49:04 -!- H4ns2 [n=Hans@p57BBA631.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:50:25 So, I have a problem, related to the above discussion. 08:50:44 I would like people to be able to bookmark dynamically generated "author pages" 08:50:59 appletizer [i=a@82-32-120-59.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:51:07 Problem: my author names have UTF-8 characters in them. 08:51:34 crod [n=cmell@cb8a16-137.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:51:36 cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:40 I've tried using (parameter) in hunchentoot on a "get" request from firefox in which I stuck in a UTF-8 character. It didn't go so well. 08:51:52 wasn't there something like unicode normalization/canonicalization? 08:52:20 I'd recommend against using non-ascii characters in URLs 08:52:24 The url turns into %E9 where the unicode char is, and I get a "bad request" error from hunchentoot. 08:52:34 mogunus: that is latin-1 08:52:57 mogunus: i would either transliterate to ascii or just filter out the non-ascii characters. 08:53:25 H4ns: okay. I will transliterate. I want to represent these people's names as accurately as possible. 08:53:32 what do you use for sql? 08:53:57 H4ns: What about cases where the names can not be transliterated reliably? (Various CJK and similar writing systems?) 08:54:23 H4ns: I'm using a "get" parameter here, so people can bookmark a particular author's page if they want to. Does that make sense or is taking apart the URL with a regex better? 08:54:31 p_l: what do you mean by "what about"? 08:54:44 HET2 pasted "unicode regex" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71847 08:54:54 p_l, do a phonetic spelling. 08:54:54 how would i go about translating this to cl-ppcre? 08:55:01 p_l, or pick an arbitrary username. 08:55:09 mogunus: that certainly depends on your application. GET is fine if you want to be able to cache 08:55:12 tic: That's an option.. except for name clashes :) 08:55:31 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:55:35 p_l, you always have them though. 08:56:00 H4ns: I have no idea what is appropriate for my application here. 08:56:10 H4ns: the author pages will change once every year or so. 08:56:12 mogunus: hard to program if you don't know what you do :) 08:56:23 tic: Yes, but with CJK the results could be.. interesting I think. At least in the case without a fallback system. 08:56:32 (usernames/handles is a good idea IMO) 08:56:33 mogunus: i'd put the name into the url, that looks better. 08:57:06 H4ns: would I be unable to cache that, if I did so? 08:57:19 p_l: it is common to have a ascii representation of names in languages that do not use latin spelling. 08:57:23 p_l, you just cannot get away from name clashes, regardless if you're transliterating from a foreign writing system or doing it natively. I'm fairly certain there are more than one Mikael Jansson in the world, for example. (in fact, there's a famous photographer who's called that.) 08:57:25 mogunus: not at all. 08:58:10 p_l: for example, if you book an international flight in japan, you often have to enter your name both in kanji and in ascii. i'm not saying that this is nice, but it is something people seem to be used to. 08:58:11 p_l, so either you do like stackoverflow and add a numeric ID into the URL, or force unique user names. 08:58:24 tic: It's just the amount of hononyms in japanese gets into my head, I think :) 08:58:56 I'd probably use an ASCII-letter only usernames forced to be unique as handles 08:59:03 HET2: did you even look at the cl-ppcre documentation? 08:59:04 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:59:20 <_3b> firefox seems to handle utf-8 URLs reasonably, is that not common in other browsers? 08:59:42 H4ns: i've been reading it since yesterday 08:59:45 H4ns: I'm sorry, it's late, so (not (not ubable to cache)) => I would be able to cache with the names in the url's? 09:00:00 _3b: I'm using firefox, and it seems to turn my utf-8 into latin-1 09:00:01 mogunus: certainly. 09:00:09 manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 09:00:12 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:00:20 <_3b> mogunus: are you url-encoding the utf-8? 09:00:21 H4ns: thanks. I'll definately do that then, I agree that it looks nicer. 09:00:24 i think the point of having the name in the url is readability, and putting encoded characters there completely defeats the purpose. 09:00:50 so if you expect to deal with a lot of people having latin names, use transliteration, otherwise use opaque ascii handles or, say, email addresses. 09:01:08 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:01:11 _3b: no, I was just sticking it into the address bar to see what would happen. 09:01:26 <_3b> H4ns: by 'reasonably' i meant firefox didplays url-encoded utf-8 as utf-8, not a bunch of %ab%cd gibbereish 09:01:30 _3b: with a little test function that just echoed back that parameter. it gave me an error. 09:02:12 kiuma [i=4d5de922@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7f00d3774423464e] has joined #lisp 09:02:18 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:02:21 hello lipsers 09:02:27 #join #iolib 09:02:53 mogunus: can't you do printable initials or login names? most universities do foo.edu/~jrh or some such, for Jay Random Hacker 09:03:19 HET2: search for "unicode". it is all in there. 09:03:20 <_3b> mogunus: what did you type in, and what did it display? 09:03:32 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Client Quit] 09:03:35 H4ns: it only talks about "unicode properties" whatever that might be 09:03:46 fusss: Um... maybe. I was thinking I would do transliteration, because I have a lot of authors. several hundred. 09:03:51 H4ns: and i am at a loss on how to translate hex code to unicode properties 09:04:09 HET2: no, it does not. please look at the create-scanner documentation. it refers you to cl-interpol. 09:04:23 _3b: I typed a spanish lower case e with the accent, and firefox replaced that in the url with %E9 09:04:47 HET2: also, you could use your google fu to learn something about unicode properties. always worthwhile to know what you are doing. 09:04:52 H4ns: thanks 09:06:18 <_3b> mogunus: hmm, strange... mine seems to replace it with %c3%a9 09:06:32 <_3b> mogunus: wonder if i have changed a setting somewhere 09:07:41 _3b: I also could've changed a setting somewhere. 09:07:56 <_3b> mogunus: if you right click and pick 'view page info' does it list %e9 in the url there too? 09:08:06 -!- _9david [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:08:08 <_3b> (also, what version of firefox? i use 3.whatever) 09:08:42 _3b: 3.whatever, and yes 09:11:27 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 09:12:54 AshyIsMe [n=User@220.157.86.160] has joined #lisp 09:13:54 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:16:06 mogunus pasted "confused" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71849 09:17:07 (script-name) doesn't seem to be working 09:17:41 format t 09:17:43 <_3b> what does script-name look like? 09:18:08 you wanted (:h1 (str (format nil "whee ~a" (script-name)))) 09:18:53 <_3b> H4ns: if his standard-page binds *standard-output*, t shoudl work too, shouldn't it? (assuming script-name returns something printable) 09:19:45 _3b: standard-page does bind standard-output 09:21:11 H4ns: just to make sure i am getting this right, if i use interpol's #?"" strings instead of "" strings for ppcre, it will insert the escaped chars and then pass it on to ppcre which will know what to do with what chars? 09:21:15 esden [n=esden@lapradig77.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 09:22:35 _3b: oh, true 09:22:47 <_3b> mogunus: might try (fmt "..." ...) instead of (format t "..." ...)) 09:22:47 mogunus: then never mind me. (script-name) always works for me. 09:23:06 *_3b* doesn't know why the script-name part doesn't work though 09:23:09 HET2: correct. cl-ppcre will work with all characters, unless you rebind *regex-char-code-limit* 09:23:33 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a16-137.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:23:36 jestocost [n=cmell@cb8a9b-024.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:24:24 cracki [n=cracki@45-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:24:46 H4ns: great! thanks again 09:25:20 -!- kiuma [i=4d5de922@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7f00d3774423464e] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 09:26:01 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@220.157.86.160] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:26:28 vtl [n=user@nat/redhat/x-6c6a5dbf980bfe64] has joined #lisp 09:27:43 oh, ugh. I just had stale .fasl's hanging around. 09:28:16 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-38-248.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:28:49 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:29:41 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:30:00 clhs lasy 09:30:01 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for lasy. 09:30:03 clhs last 09:30:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_last.htm 09:30:40 elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has joined #lisp 09:30:54 Is there a library that will transliterate my utf-8 names into ASCII> 09:31:45 <_3b> don't think you can do that completely generally 09:31:51 mogunus: not that i knew of one. there are some international standards for doing that, though 09:32:11 can't iconv do that? 09:32:40 <_3b> how would you distinguish for example japanese and chinese uses of the same characters? 09:33:41 mogunus: (with-output-to-string (out) (loop for uch across unicode-string do (princ (char-name uch) out))) 09:33:51 _3b: in international passport treaties, people with names for that no natural transliteration exist have another name in latin characters. 09:34:07 Ah, luckily, I don't have to deal with that. This is a spanish-language... thing. 09:34:17 matimago: \o/ now that was a useful hint! 09:34:23 :-) 09:34:25 matimago: wow, thanks 09:34:48 <_3b> H4ns: arguably both cases have natural transliterations, you just can't tell what it is from the unicode code points only 09:35:22 mogunus: if you restrict your string to accented latin text, then you can easily write a map of accented characters to unaccented ones, and generate either the single letter, or the letter with a corresponding punctuation. é -> e or e' 09:36:00 If your CHAR-NAME returns the standard unicode character name, then you can even use that to find out the base letter. 09:36:23 mogunus: you will propably want to work off the transliteration tables specified in the icao-9303 standard 09:36:51 matimago: how would you infer, say: LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH STROKE => oe? 09:37:30 H4ns: I said restriction to accented letters. I wouldn't consider a stroke an accent here. 09:37:51 eevar2 [n=jalla@36.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:38:07 matimago: oh, really, did you! 09:38:14 I forget, were there proceedings published for ILC2007 ? 09:38:20 Now if there's a standard, then indeed it would be nice to implement it. Otherwise people will complain there's no libraries... 09:38:38 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 09:39:25 Ah, found them. 09:39:33 spiaggia: Where? 09:39:50 From http://www.international-lisp-conference.org/2007/speakers I find only the audio and slides pdf. 09:42:29 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:47:22 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:47:46 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:47:50 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 09:47:58 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 09:50:36 matimago: I thought I found them, but I didn't 09:51:42 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-38-248.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:51:44 spiaggia: well, then you've got at least the audio and slides with the url above. 09:52:40 matimago: I need page references 09:52:55 <_3b> http://www.lispworks.com/products/ilc-goodies.html ? 09:53:03 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/78e3fe54426282ff?dmode=source 09:53:23 what happens when doing #'(setf symbol-function) to a gensym in a type specifier? 09:53:36 _3b: Great! 09:53:46 does it leak, does it leak the function prematurely or does it work as expected? 09:54:12 s/does it leak the/does it free the/ 09:55:37 mogunus: http://hasbrouck.org/documents/ICAO9303-pt3.pdf page 35 ff lists the recommended transliterations for non-ascii characters. 09:56:04 weirdo: (deftype t1 () '(satisfies #:abc)) will retain #:abc and #:abc will retain (function #:abc), so it will be ok. No leak, since (function #:abc) is accessible, and called by (typep object 't1) 09:56:21 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:56:53 attila_lendvai, heya 09:56:55 check the memo 09:57:08 matimago, thanks. i'm thinking of doing something perverse, like calling COMPILE in DEFTYPE 09:58:00 H4ns: sweet, thanks 09:58:10 weirdo: I would check what deftype can do, what it can ignore, but I'd think it would be ok. 10:00:58 weirdo: hi 10:00:59 attila_lendvai, memo from weirdo: could you help me a bit? PURGE-INSTANCE hangs in newest build 10:00:59 attila_lendvai, memo from weirdo: hang trace at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71846 10:00:59 attila_lendvai, memo from weirdo: looks like the ensure-exported cell got called despite my calling #'export-to-rdbms on all defined classes. but why? 10:01:26 weirdo: deftype is allowed to drop satisfies and typep return nil;nil ; so you could lose your gensym and function... 10:02:18 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:03:12 attila_lendvai, could you check it out? i'd send you my schema if it's needed 10:03:23 Using iconv, I now have a bunch of bytes that are supposedly a latin-1 string. How do I turn those bytes into a string? 10:03:36 weirdo: i remember seeing that recently with somebody else, but i think it was fixed. also sometimes postgres hangs with such schema changes, ten you need to dropdb/createdb 10:03:55 mogunus: i'd not use iconv, but see (apropos "octets-to-string") and (apropos "string-to-octets") 10:04:05 mogunus: #+sbcl sb-ext:octets-to-string #+clisp ext:convert-string-from-bytes 10:04:14 mogunus: several libraries implement those, babel among them. 10:04:28 mogunus: or you can use babel 10:05:19 That sounds pretty exciting. 10:05:27 H4ns: why do germans like functional languages so much, is it because the german mind is so austere and precise and frighteningly lacking in empathy 10:05:38 banisterfiend: ? 10:05:48 iconv is unsatisfactory, as it seems to just stick in "?" for characters it doesn't know. 10:06:10 mogunus: use babel, or flexi-streams, which has better error handling. 10:06:54 banisterfiend: please go somewhere else to discuss stereotypes and prejudice. 10:07:26 H4ns: flexi-streams has better error handling than babel ? 10:07:39 fe[nl]ix: that is what edi claims :) 10:07:49 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:09:02 jpcooper [n=justin@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:09:12 All hail Edi 10:09:32 Hail Edi! 10:09:34 attila_lendvai, did dropdb/createdb several times, didn't help 10:09:37 also purged fasls 10:10:58 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:11:10 Actually, flexi-streams seems to have pretty fantastic error handling. 10:11:14 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:11:25 babel has proper error handling (signals when something's wrong) and it can be disabled. dunno how much better f-s can be... :) 10:11:37 It seems I'll need to specify my own lookup table for going from utf-8 to ascii, though 10:12:15 weirdo: if you are pulled and dropdb doesn't help, then try to send a self contained test-case to the list 10:12:46 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:13:18 weirdo: the source of the always exporting problem with kami was that he did some (defentity foo (entity)), but that's cl-dwim stuff 10:13:29 flexi-streams gives you more flexibility (sic) when invalid character codes are encountered, i think. 10:13:49 attila_lendvai, is it normal having to do export-to-rdbms manually upon connecting? 10:14:18 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:14:38 weirdo: no, exporting should happen automatically and only once/change 10:14:38 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:14:46 -!- xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:15:15 attila_lendvai, if i don't call e-t-r, first db access shows an error about a lack of id <> class mapping 10:15:28 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:15:32 there was some hash table bound to a global variable with the mapping in prc:: 10:16:50 Apparently, I can't build the docs for babel, because I don't have mkmanual installed? 10:17:36 weirdo: but i think some hooks in the query system is missing, so having an (export-model) call doesn't hurt. http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=cl-dwim-cl-dwim;a=headblob;f=/meta-model/model.lisp 10:18:53 weirdo: are you looking for prc::*persistent-classes* and prc::*persistent-associations*? 10:20:32 elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has joined #lisp 10:20:48 attila_lendvai, it's prc::*OID-CLASS-ID->CLASS-NAME-MAP* 10:20:59 that's the one that's missing 10:21:07 it works for the first class, but it has an assoc which is missing 10:22:26 attila_lendvai, any idea how to clear all the stuff from computed-class to avoid restarting the image to fix perec breakage? 10:24:36 weirdo: dunno, need something that can be reproduced locally, and preferably sent to the list 10:25:31 weirdo: you can invalidate stuff computed by computed-class, but that's voodoo there. all the mop of perec is calculated using dependencies enforced by c-c... 10:25:36 attila_lendvai, when perec throws an exception inside a cell or otherwise breaks, entering perec makes the same thing recompile every time 10:25:38 clhs use-value 10:25:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_use_va.htm 10:25:59 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:26:29 weirdo: if an error happens while exporting or flattening the mop, then it's not marked as done, so it'll retry again and again 10:27:19 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 10:28:35 -!- saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 10:30:15 How do I get at the value that caused an error from within a (restart-case (...) (use-value ...) form? 10:32:59 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-8.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:34:07 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:34:19 attila_lendvai, heh! of course it works perfectly in a self-contained test case. do you have an idea what could make the exporting cell recompute? 10:35:07 Or am I basically required to use handler-bind to get at the value that cause the complaining? 10:35:09 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.137] has joined #lisp 10:35:16 attila_lendvai, if not, could always bisect it 10:35:33 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:36:28 weirdo: problematic inheritance with a persistent class? 10:37:36 hi. how can I do something at every nth char while looping across a string, please? (cl newbie in case that wasn't obvoius) What I'm *really* trying to do is partition and pad a string such that (foo "abcdefgh" 5 #\x) => "abcde fghxx" -- perhaps something like that already exists? 10:39:34 attila_lendvai, why is it problematic? it inherits an abstract class 10:40:02 btw, i thought abstract classes would be put inline inside concrete ones instead of joins all over... 10:40:27 weirdo: don't know, haven't seen your code, just guessing 10:40:59 grkz: http://www.cliki.net/SPLIT-SEQUENCE 10:41:24 weirdo: that's only the default for the least surprises. but search for (:direct-store :push-down) in the tests 10:41:26 grkz: (loop for char across string for i from 0 do ... when (zerop (mod i x)) ...) 10:41:43 locklace: ah, thank you 10:42:05 spiaggia: thank you 10:44:06 Ragnaroek [i=8f5d37dc@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b86888160aa0b9f3] has joined #lisp 10:44:57 attila_lendvai, any way i can hook to cc to check where it decides to recompute the exported cell? 10:45:08 but yeah, could always bisect 10:47:03 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:48:20 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:48:38 -!- cracki [n=cracki@45-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:50:39 weirdo: try to send a test case, but if it doesn't want to break, then bisecting info would also be useful with a backtrace of the failure 10:52:18 mogunus: haw about librecode ? 10:53:31 kuwabara: are there CL bindings for that? 10:56:28 kuwabara: what would be the merits of using librecode instead of one of the proposed cl solutions? 10:58:25 H4ns: librecode already knows how to represent a complex character in a simple character set, you don't have to create your own tables 10:58:28 I'm having trouble figuring out flexi-streams. It seems that it doesn't provide a use-value restart when you're using string-to-octets, only when you're reading. 10:58:41 HET2 [n=diman@chello062178211140.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:59:21 kuwabara: ah, ok! 11:00:14 mogunus: maybe edi's claim was a little bold :) 11:00:45 Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:01:20 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-020e6858e1096bc4] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:01:51 H4ns: I think I am going to stick with it, though, because there seem to be no docs for babel :-\ 11:01:55 locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-081843d359b64499] has joined #lisp 11:02:05 are there any decent examples of babel usage around? 11:02:38 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #lisp 11:03:19 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 11:04:09 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Success] 11:05:11 mogunus pasted "toy case " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71853 11:05:42 That claims that there's no representation for m in my external format 11:06:28 (I'm trying to get around the "no use value restart" issue by reading from a flexi-stream and using that restart, but it errors on *everything*) 11:06:42 mogunus: seems like you've hit a bug. 11:07:07 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:07:15 crod [n=cmell@cb8a9b-024.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:07:16 mulligan [n=user@e178045090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:07:26 H4ns: I assumed I was just doing something wrong. 11:07:40 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@cb8a9b-024.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:07:48 mogunus: i've never used it this way, so i can't tell. 11:09:19 Sigh. 11:09:36 I'm going to sleep. I hate encodings. 11:09:58 Maybe it wouldn't be too hard to hack it so that it offers me a use-value on that error while doing something besides reading. 11:11:38 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 11:12:11 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #lisp 11:19:48 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 11:26:18 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:26:45 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit ["ERC Version 5.1.2 (CVS) $Revision: 1.816 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:28:09 rincewind [n=rincewin@h147.221.hpi.uni-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 11:28:52 mogunus: it makes sense to report that as a bug. 11:29:03 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:29:34 -!- rincewind is now known as rpfeiffer 11:32:36 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:39:31 -!- noclouds [n=mhfan@61.190.36.114] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:40:58 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:45:18 -!- seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E469D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 11:46:21 hoerup [n=20495@193.3.8.1] has joined #lisp 11:47:03 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.87.8] has joined #lisp 11:47:27 -!- jollygood_______ [n=jolly@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:47:55 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:48:46 would anyone like to see my game in common lisp 11:49:07 http://dto.mamalala.org/notebook/rlx.html <--- reaching alpha! 11:49:38 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 11:49:42 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:51:29 dto: looks nice 11:51:55 thank you :) 11:52:35 jollygood_______ [n=jolly@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 11:53:15 dto: what are you using for it? 11:53:15 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-82-81-30-92.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:53:15 -!- ths [n=ths@X6a11.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:53:24 rsynnott: in terms of what 11:54:19 graphics libs 11:54:28 lispbuilder-sdl 11:55:19 ah :) 11:56:22 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:56:31 dto: ah, org-mode! 11:58:11 dto: the ending on the rlx-tweaked.ogv video is funny ;) 11:58:19 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:58:30 <_8david> luis: are you still working on texinfo-docstrings? 11:59:05 the emacs version is TERRIFYING :P 11:59:06 _8david: I haven't used it in a while, last time I looked into stuff like that I was trying to use atdoc instead. 11:59:39 <_8david> Nikodemus sent me a newer version of docstrings.lisp that I've tried to port to texinfo-docstrings last weekend. 12:00:17 <_8david> When doing that, I noticed that the git archive for texinfo-docstrings doesn't have the history for docstring.lisp from SBCL CVS. 12:00:18 cool, feel free to send patches. I should set up a cliki page, at least. 12:00:38 luis: :) yes it crashes sometimes 12:00:57 _8david: yeah, my git-fu is weak, as you probably very well know by now. 12:01:53 <_8david> I've used git-cvsimport and git-filter-branch to graft that old history into the git archive now. (But that means that your commits only look unchanged on my branch, they actually have different hash codes.) 12:03:00 -!- Ragnaroek [i=8f5d37dc@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b86888160aa0b9f3] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 12:03:22 We'll use your branch then. 12:03:58 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:04:01 -!- jollygood_______ [n=jolly@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:04:12 -!- rpfeiffer [n=rincewin@h147.221.hpi.uni-potsdam.de] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 12:04:27 jollygood_______ [n=jolly@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 12:04:36 <_8david> okay. I'll set up a public repository this evening then. 12:05:06 <_8david> Right now, nikodemus' changes for HTML output seem to have broken texinfo output though. Or perhaps I broke something when merging them. 12:05:42 _8david: should I create a c-l.net project? 12:06:38 <_8david> luis: don't know. My long-term goals might be different from yours. I'm really trying to modularize it into several projects, or at least several .asd files. 12:08:09 -!- NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:08:27 _8david: I don't remember what my goals were, but spliting docstring frobbing from texinfo output (and whatever else) sounds like a good idea. 12:10:24 <_8david> Nikodemus already added HTML output and a CLOSy in-memory representation as an intermediate step. I'm trying to build on that. 12:11:22 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 12:11:47 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:12:13 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:13:03 Sounds like it'll need a better name than texinfo-docstrings then. 12:14:10 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-137-203.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:15:37 _8david: how does this relate to atdoc? 12:17:33 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:18:45 <_8david> I've got ASCII art explaining my overdesigned vapourware ideas somewhere, let me paste it... 12:18:53 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:18:58 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:19:26 ths [n=ths@p549AF440.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:04 <_8david> http://www.lichteblau.com/tmp/documentation-vapourware.text 12:29:44 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:30:41 greetings 12:31:17 I've been reading up on henry baker's linear objects 12:31:35 has there any CL library been made to do something similar? 12:31:38 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:32:03 http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/LinearLisp.html 12:34:10 _8david: looks pretty good. 12:35:54 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:40:58 Mage__ [n=Mage@adsl-69-225-6-192.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:07 yvdriess: maybe that's what we need for a safe implementation of *before-gc-hooks* 12:41:08 or ownership types in CL 12:41:59 heh, finalize hook? :) 12:42:30 I'm still reading up on the topic, but it seems impossible to do without actual language support 12:42:37 yvdriess: *before-gc-hooks* run when the heap is (nearly) full 12:42:45 ok 12:45:22 -!- waterh [i=3ba24401@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b71373abfa4c488d] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 12:45:48 does lisp in some sense feel incomplete to the users in so far as you actually program in the S expressions themselves 12:46:29 banisterfiend: you don't make sense. 12:47:01 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:47:06 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:47:13 np g-man 12:47:24 -!- repnop [n=Mage@adsl-69-226-106-197.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:52:21 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-38-55.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:52:41 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:53:58 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:57 sunwukong [n=vukung@203-165-96-155.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:58:24 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:00:39 as opposed to... what, exactly? 13:03:44 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:21 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:04:24 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 13:04:40 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 13:04:43 gaf 13:04:53 (which means Good Afternoon) :) 13:06:51 jpcooper_ [n=justin@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:04 -!- jpcooper_ [n=justin@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:08:06 hello plage 13:10:14 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:38 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 13:13:13 Ragnaroek [i=54a6747d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0e15bf6840bee6fc] has joined #lisp 13:14:49 phao [n=phao@189.13.126.182] has joined #lisp 13:15:32 -!- baetis-fly [n=baetis-f@pool-96-245-219-99.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 13:22:11 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:22:31 -!- tgoodsell [n=tgoodsel@pool-71-126-240-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 13:22:44 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:23:24 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.137] has joined #lisp 13:23:46 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:24:26 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.137] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:25:18 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.137] has joined #lisp 13:29:12 mvilleneuve: why are you not here (conseil d'UFR)? 13:30:57 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:31:19 plage: you might like this: http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=2ec7307dced2e5d86159 13:31:29 jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has joined #lisp 13:32:21 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:42 banisterfiend: The URL doesn't make me want to check. 13:34:05 you'll like it it's fascinating 13:35:15 banisterfiend: that's lame on many levels. 13:35:37 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:20 maybe but it's good as far as porn goes 13:36:45 banisterfiend: please leave 13:38:11 plage: I couldn't make it today (more precisely, I don't have many holidays left, so I chose to skip today's meeting) 13:39:24 banisterfiend: yes, please leave. Go hack some ruby or erlang. 13:39:29 good afternoon everyone. 13:39:45 mvilleneuve: Ah, OK. Next time, send me a "procuration". 13:39:56 hello tic 13:40:12 plage: do you know if I can fax you one? 13:40:48 hi, plage. 13:41:10 mvilleneuve: you could, but it doesn't matter today. 13:42:19 ok 13:42:54 How is that CL with a Flash backend coming along? 13:43:09 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 13:43:46 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:44:46 hello 13:44:57 hello fe[nl]ix 13:45:31 hi plage 13:46:23 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6747d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0e15bf6840bee6fc] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 13:46:43 this is the same flash which gets upset if you go around trying to allocate memory, right? :) 13:47:03 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-081843d359b64499] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:47:31 Dunno. Was just curious, having looked at the rubber-bike GA at http://www.wreck.devisland.net/ga 13:50:16 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-69.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:53:16 locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-ab720a8cac7c284f] has joined #lisp 13:54:10 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello062178211140.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:56:04 Ragnaroek [i=54a6747d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-78adffff34e54988] has joined #lisp 13:56:19 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-154-248.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 13:56:38 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:58:20 tic: nice link 13:58:52 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:59:39 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-18.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:00:04 *luis* stares at evolution 14:00:17 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A1D3E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:00:19 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-69.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:02:15 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:02:32 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 14:02:36 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:40 tic: I was getting some work done before you pasted that link you know. 14:04:15 HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:04:33 tic: very cool 14:04:50 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:05:32 tgoodsell [n=tgoodsel@c-75-69-127-140.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:30 *cmm* doesn't get it 14:09:39 sometimes I don't grasp why a certain object is being dismissed either 14:11:19 oooh, I just received a briliant design :D :P 14:11:58 tic: does this come with some README? 14:12:04 the selection function seems to be the distance before some other part of the figure than the blue wheels touches the terrain 14:12:21 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.250.63] has joined #lisp 14:12:24 or until a timer runs out 14:12:30 luis, I don't know. There's discussion at news.ycombinator and proggit. 14:12:36 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7i22c/genetic_programming_evolution_of_mona_lisa/c06pt65 14:13:18 I've been watching those today, it's making me want to do a little project doing something similar. Not sure of a good place to start tho 14:14:04 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:14:26 kzar: Do it in reverse. Have it generate a course that the car is able to complete. 14:14:46 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:15:31 There was another interesting one ... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_m97_kL4ox0 14:15:40 (quite long though) 14:16:10 -!- chawls [n=nix@bzq-219-145-16.static.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:16:11 schme: Hmm but that would just evolve a flat line at best? 14:16:33 kind of the opposite of real life "evolution aspiring for a flat line" 14:16:38 kzar: Well maybe it needs a downward slope to gain momentum :) 14:17:02 kzar: depends on the car 14:17:44 maybe if the car had an oscillator inside it 14:19:11 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #lisp 14:19:22 the first few individuals in that simulation didn't work in a straight line, use one of those. 14:19:45 or maybe you would evolve a course that would destroy a car in minimum time 14:19:46 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.250.63] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:20:41 heh 14:21:12 I was thinking it would be quite hard doing a car and road one because I would have to make the physics so that the car went along the road 14:21:13 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-183-11.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:21:39 there's no need to limit yourself to the system like in that flash demo 14:21:51 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:22:08 jsnell: How do you mean? 14:22:08 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 14:22:09 used to be this comples spring system simulation (soda?) that people would build models in, and race 14:23:01 in the sense of having tens or hundreds of components, not just a few like that car, and a fairly sensible set of physics to go along with that 14:23:19 kzar: I know. You need to make it generate a perfect bot quake player. 14:23:36 schme: I'm already that bot, that's the one thing I don't need heh 14:23:48 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:05 and I remember there were some pretty cool models that were generated with GAs, just by starting with a random jumble of springs, masses, etc 14:24:35 Nice 14:24:58 jsnell: could you recommend an easy simulation to start off on? 14:26:30 clock generation with GA: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0&eurl= 14:26:45 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:27:14 -!- appletizer [i=a@82-32-120-59.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [] 14:27:30 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.137] has joined #lisp 14:27:56 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:28:07 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:28:31 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has left #lisp 14:28:46 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 14:31:48 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:40 deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has joined #lisp 14:35:30 anyone knows of fool-proof method of reading from a file line-by-line that won't have problems with another process appending to that file? 14:35:52 (For approximated values of 'fool-proof' of course) 14:36:03 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfbf2.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:04 off-topic, but I don't really know where else to ask; anyone know of a slime analogue for python? 14:36:20 Maybe #python ? 14:36:54 rsynnott: I don't think there exist one - you can hook Python to Elisp, though, so writing an equivalent shouldn't be that hard. 14:37:07 rsynnott: SLIME with clpython? (or perhaps ipython) 14:37:23 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:37:51 *p_l* seconds ipython recommendation 14:38:20 schme: the problem there is that python people in general have not used slime, and do not know what slime is, and assume that it is something like inferior-lisp-mode :) 14:38:37 luis: ah, yes, that looks quite nice :) 14:40:17 -!- UnwashedMeme1 [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:42:03 Right. So how long does one have to watch this car before it stops toppling over in the downhill? 14:42:21 schme: quite a while 14:42:27 aaarg tic, why do you post these things?! 14:42:30 schme, moreover, it is time limited. 14:42:37 ebzzry_ [n=rmm@124.217.77.144] has joined #lisp 14:42:45 I watched that clock making video but I didn't really like it 14:42:59 oh that explains things. I had one I could not understand why one designed was killed off. I was going good! 14:42:59 schme, so chances are you will never see it succeed. It's part of the fitness function, and you'll have to limit it at some point. 14:43:23 -!- hoerup [n=20495@193.3.8.1] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:43:37 So GA is the new in-thing? 14:44:01 tic: couldn't you make the course get increasingly more difficult? then it will only fail where the vehicle itself fails (thus giving better disigns more benefit) 14:44:11 madnificent, it is not mine. 14:44:42 luis, [getting work done] sorry :( 14:46:36 *tic* would like to write such an app, though. 14:47:26 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 14:49:29 NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 14:49:47 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.87.8] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:50:14 -!- vtl [n=user@nat/redhat/x-6c6a5dbf980bfe64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:50:53 how are sessions handled in common lisp web-apps? 14:51:06 ebzzry__ [n=rmm@124.217.82.211] has joined #lisp 14:51:33 OpenCL. Worst name evar. 14:52:34 vtl [n=user@nat/redhat/x-9808fb37463aabcd] has joined #lisp 14:53:29 -!- ebzzry_ [n=rmm@124.217.77.144] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:54:17 oh, apparantly there is something like session in kpax 14:55:50 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 15:00:25 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 15:00:40 madnificient: hunchentoot also has automatic session handling 15:00:41 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:05:01 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:05:46 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [] 15:06:01 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 15:09:03 roger_w [n=Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:40 clhs ~[ 15:09:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cgb.htm 15:11:26 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 15:14:32 cmo-0 [n=user@auh-as20461.alshamil.net.ae] has joined #lisp 15:15:08 -!- Soulmann [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:16:28 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:17:14 i'm trying to use mel-base with gmail, till now i couldn't get it to open 'all mail' folder. i get "Error on response: (TOO MANY ARGUMENTS FOR COMMAND: SELECT) (cmd: N/A)", googled, read through checked for 'imap and spaces in folder names' 15:17:23 still i couldn't get it to work 15:18:22 also i've tried 'all+mail' 'all\ mail' "\"all mail\"" ... etc... only "all mail" returned the above error 15:18:33 others returned "unknown mailbox" message 15:19:09 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:23:19 matley [n=matley@83.225.165.190] has joined #lisp 15:28:32 kiuma [i=4d5de922@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-64eec341c9fcd443] has joined #lisp 15:28:36 hello 15:28:56 is there something to handle pkcs#11 in CL ? 15:32:12 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:32:16 -!- simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:33:18 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:34:27 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:36:06 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:36:57 cmo-0: did you try a LIST command? 15:37:00 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@203-165-96-155.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit ["bye"] 15:37:40 a-s [n=user@89.38.174.194] has joined #lisp 15:41:01 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.137] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:46:52 milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.12] has joined #lisp 15:47:09 levy [n=levy@183-34-112.ip.adsl.hu] has joined #lisp 15:47:41 -!- rread [n=rread@c-76-102-10-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:50:57 no, but list on what? on the string (list "all mail") or (list "all" "mail") 15:51:08 SBCL CLOS calls shared-initialize on a class prototype instance, is it by design or just by accident? 15:52:13 it causes some trouble for a special metaclass and I'm just asking whether if it is a bug or I should go and fix my code 15:52:47 the CLOS mop says 'Returns a prototype instance of class. Whether the instance is initialized is not specified' 15:53:40 shared-initialize is called from method cache when there is a miss and the actual argument is the class prototype (through OBSOLETE-INSTANCE-TRAP) 15:57:19 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@85.186.180.45] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:00:19 -!- wasabi____ [n=wasabi@ntoska205253.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:01:46 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-108-12-78.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:56 wasabi____ [n=wasabi@ntoska205253.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:03:10 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.165.190] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:03:28 sinistral-daemon [n=mnd@dsl-245-174-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:03:52 KingNato_ [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:39 benny [n=benny@i577A24CD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:04:45 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@36.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:06:00 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:06:02 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:06 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@12.233.20.2] has joined #lisp 16:08:42 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:08:50 There's a new home for Marco's SLIME video: http://www.clozure.com/media/slime.mov 16:10:17 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 16:10:20 <_8david> cmo-0: (mel:make-imaps-folder ... :mailbox "\"[Gmail]/All Mail\"") 16:10:22 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:10:45 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.250.63] has joined #lisp 16:12:04 <_8david> certainly a mel-base bug, I think. LIST-MAILBOXES returns it without the quotes, so MAKE-IMAPS-FOLDER should accept it without them. 16:12:38 replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:13:11 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 16:14:22 -!- kiuma [i=4d5de922@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-64eec341c9fcd443] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 16:14:37 thanks alot ... i was digging into imap specs for any escaping rules while your msg binged ... thanks alot 16:18:14 lemoinem [n=swoog@x-132-204-252-153.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:18:27 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 16:18:36 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:52 _8david: strange list-mailboxes is not exported! 16:20:21 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20:26 _8david: also trying to use "" as a mailbox (so i can use list-mailboxes) does not work 16:20:37 -!- KingNato [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:21:00 <_8david> I use :mailbox "INBOX" to get an initial folder, then list-mailboxes or list-subscribed-mailboxes to find the others, that works 16:22:54 grep does not show any existance of 'list-subscribed-mailboxes' in my mel-base installation?! 16:24:11 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:24:30 <_8david> oh, then that's a private function in my fork :-) 16:24:59 drdo [n=psykon@wifi.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 16:25:37 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.250.63] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:26:09 can i have a look at it, or should i make my own? ;) 16:26:18 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:28:08 <_8david> we all make your own fork :-) 16:28:11 <_8david> mine is at http://common-lisp.net/~dlichteblau/inofficial/mel-base 16:28:27 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.250.63] has joined #lisp 16:28:34 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:28:36 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:28:56 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:57 <_8david> our own, I mean 16:29:42 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:30:12 cmatei [n=cmatei@85.186.180.45] has joined #lisp 16:30:50 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 16:33:09 doxtor [i=mitja@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 16:33:14 -!- levy [n=levy@183-34-112.ip.adsl.hu] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:33:24 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 16:33:33 -!- roger_w [n=Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:34:35 should i first subscribe my own folders so i can list them? i used my inbox as my mailbox, then used your list-subscribed-mailboses 16:34:46 am i messing something here? 16:34:57 since i got nil in return 16:35:11 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:37:00 -!- kidd1 [n=kidd@72.Red-79-147-10.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:37:04 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:38:21 -!- esden [n=esden@lapradig77.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:39:09 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:39:37 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:39:43 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:46 kidd1 [n=kidd@70.Red-83-36-89.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:11 -!- divinebovine is now known as holycow 16:46:51 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:23 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:43 rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has joined #lisp 16:58:56 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:59:18 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:59:21 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 17:04:45 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:05:18 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:20 -!- rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has quit [] 17:06:41 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-183-20.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:07:29 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:07:36 pervonisse [n=yakov@79.136.60.147] has joined #lisp 17:10:04 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [] 17:10:20 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 17:11:32 Xof: do you have some hints what to expect about the shared-initialize called on the class prototypes question above? 17:11:43 by levy 17:11:48 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 17:12:00 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 17:12:59 if a class prototype is accessed after a class redefinition, I would expect it to go through update-instance-for-redefined-class, which I believe ends up calling shared-initialize 17:13:10 if that's the question, I would be unsurprised to find shared-initialized begin called on it 17:13:25 s/begin/being/ 17:13:27 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.182.239] has joined #lisp 17:13:44 -!- deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:14:43 but I didn't understand levy's question, or if I did he quoted the answer directly afterwards 17:16:20 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 17:16:37 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 17:17:01 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 17:19:37 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:20:30 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@x-132-204-252-153.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 17:20:43 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:21:02 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:04 matley [n=matley@83.224.163.66] has joined #lisp 17:21:16 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 17:21:34 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:22:06 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 17:22:32 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:23:06 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.182.239] has quit ["Leaving..."] 17:23:19 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:02 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 17:24:30 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:46 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:26:49 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:32:14 -!- sinistral-daemon [n=mnd@dsl-245-174-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [] 17:32:15 -!- sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:33:56 Is it possible to take several values out of a list each time around using loop? (I want to take 4 items out instead of 1 each time) 17:34:14 by #'cddddr 17:36:01 ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:45 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 17:37:55 lisp doesn't have a lisp, it studddrs :P 17:38:21 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-145-185.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:12 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 17:39:45 Xof: That gives me the whole list and then say all but the first 4, then all but the first 8 then all but the first 12 etc.. I want it to give me just the 4 each time 17:40:04 loop for (a b c d) on list by #'cddddr 17:42:02 Xof: Awesome thanks 17:48:25 -!- NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit ["Go Canada!"] 17:50:41 phytovor [i=mitja@cpe-92-37-13-6.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:06 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:55 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:55 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6747d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-78adffff34e54988] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:54:58 Ragnaroek [n=54a6747d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a8abb9f8084496ef] has joined #lisp 17:57:25 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-108-12-78.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:59:03 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:56 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:02:43 mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has joined #lisp 18:05:17 -!- vtl [n=user@nat/redhat/x-9808fb37463aabcd] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:05:51 sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:06:03 baetis-fly [n=baetis-f@pool-96-245-219-99.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:17 -!- doxtor [i=mitja@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:08:31 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:09:09 -!- Ragnaroek [n=54a6747d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a8abb9f8084496ef] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:10:56 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:09 -!- matley [n=matley@83.224.163.66] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:14:03 saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:51 dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has joined #lisp 18:19:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 18:20:57 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:12 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 18:22:41 Harag1 [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:23:27 -!- mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:23:32 mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has joined #lisp 18:23:39 Is there a function like length that doesn't freak out on a dotted list? 18:23:47 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-150.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 18:24:10 -!- Harag1 [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:42 kzar, trying to sort out the length of a non-proper list? 18:25:34 tic: I'm trying to write a recursive function, I cons stuff together and call the function again.. problem is both items are atoms it will be a dotted list and then the call to length the next time through freaks out 18:25:53 problem is *if* both 18:26:31 evenin' 18:26:46 so you should add a case taking care of the atom and treat it properly? It sounds like your function is wrong. 18:26:50 heya schme_ 18:27:08 tic: It's kind of messy but it's quite a confusing problem 18:27:23 kzar, maybe you can paste it? 18:29:07 minion: tell kzar about lisp-paste 18:29:08 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``lisp-paste''. 18:29:16 it's ok 18:29:19 I'm doing it 18:31:36 kzar pasted "Broken recursion" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71864 18:32:08 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-de72186e49fdbf5f] has joined #lisp 18:32:22 -!- Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:33:12 (sorry about the code by the way, it's ugly I know :( ) 18:33:21 <_8david> clhs list-length 18:33:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_list_l.htm 18:34:45 _8david, that type-errors if not a proper or circular list 18:34:49 hey tic 18:35:16 _8david: (list-length (cons 'a 'b)) 18:35:34 rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-60-79.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:36:21 oooh! 18:36:24 GA :) 18:36:46 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 18:36:51 kzar: Have you traced it? 18:37:08 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:11 kzar: It seems to me that you must make it not return the / anyway :) 18:40:17 schme_: Yea I guess so but it's getting so ugly :( 18:40:56 dcrawford: that's not true. It only signals an error if the argument is either not a list, or a dotted list. In the case of a circular list, NIL is returned. 18:41:06 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:13 dcrawford: Alexandira got proper-list-length which _does_ signal an error even when the argument is a circular list 18:42:47 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:42:48 kzar: I'd really love to give you a quick answer to why it does what it does, but all those nested IFs make my eyes bleed, sorry. And don't worry about the ugly. I was implementing a GA to find answer 42 some time ago, and it was all kinds of ugly. 18:43:02 kzar: Though I think I used LOOP and just avoided the recursion (: 18:43:26 willb [n=wibenton@wireless34.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:43:55 schme_: Well I did your suggestion of onlying adding the / if it happened to be a list and that works nicely 18:44:25 kzar: great! 18:44:33 I didn't know I suggested that, but great! 18:44:40 I demand payment now ;) 18:44:53 schme_: It has to be something like 1 + 4 to evaluate, all the if's are to get rid of extra crap like 1 1 + / 4.. what a mess anyway 18:44:58 schme_: hehe 18:45:08 kzar: Yeees.. I am aware of what you are having it do. 18:45:18 schme_: Your payment is getting to use that code royalty free 18:45:23 oh great. 18:45:36 I can run it against mine and see which one wins! 18:45:54 Now I'll go to bed though, night :) 18:45:59 heh ok night 18:46:14 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:13 kzar annotated #71864 with "It works but it's crappy" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71864#1 18:49:00 ok after further testing it doesn't work 18:49:06 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:41 kzar: :( 18:50:46 my sleep is postponed :( 18:51:22 heh no I can figure it out now, the bug you solved is fixed it's just that it's logic is as crap as the code looks 18:51:32 ech. 18:51:39 stop bitchin' about the code lookin' crap, please :) 18:51:49 You got the indentation just right! 18:51:52 josemanuel [n=josemanu@218.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:52:04 now I 18:52:05 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:52:06 m off. 18:52:15 kzar: dude. Cond. 18:52:18 *sykopomp* shields eyes. 18:52:31 (seriously, that's what cond is for) 18:52:46 sykopomp: OK let's give this a go.. gimme a second 18:53:19 just put a single cond, and all your conditions into one of the statements. It's a pretty easy refactor. 18:53:29 actually, I think redshank does it automatically :P 18:53:52 also, it's spelled 'answer' 18:53:52 sykopomp: What's redshank? 18:54:23 kzar: it's an extra mode for emacs, along with paredit. Just makes it more IDE-like, but let's not worry about that right now. 18:54:38 more importantly, you should fix your spelling and turn that into a COND instead of a bunch of nested IFs 18:54:39 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:40 sykopomp: It's one of those words I could never spell, I know I often get it wrong 18:55:01 that's fine :P 18:55:24 george__ [n=george@189.107.197.4] has joined #lisp 18:55:50 coliv [n=coliveir@12.15.114.194] has joined #lisp 18:55:58 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 18:56:46 Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:49 kzar: actually, I'm trying to refactor your code myself and it's scaring me :P 18:59:22 yea it's taking me a while 18:59:40 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:59:53 Ragnaroek [i=54a6747d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-69f7eeb88c3eecb5] has joined #lisp 19:00:09 -!- rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:00:24 rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 19:00:44 phew. Done. 19:00:52 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0FB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:03 tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@unaffiliated/tc-rucho] has joined #lisp 19:01:10 optikalm` [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279398477.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:01:24 mulligan` [n=user@e178045090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:25 sykopomp: Tell me this, how did you sort out the > 3 stuff? I'm trying to get around duplicate code or having a if inside a cond 19:01:28 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:02:27 want me to paste my solution? It's really only a first shot at handling that beast 19:02:57 sykopomp: Yea ok, I have got a bit stuck refactoring it anyway 19:03:12 sykopomp annotated #71864 with "attempted refactor" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71864#2 19:03:23 -!- andrewy [n=irssi@cl-53.lax-01.us.sixxs.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-150.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 -!- baetis-fly [n=baetis-f@pool-96-245-219-99.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.12] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:23 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 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[orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:25 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:25 -!- sbok [n=kobs@you.cant.haxit.org] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:25 -!- bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:25 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:25 -!- hefner [n=hefner@c-68-50-101-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:25 -!- cipher [n=cipher@pool-98-118-51-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:25 -!- Starsie [n=Stars@pool-71-178-226-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:25 -!- cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:03:45 you can also take that IF out and put it into two separate ((and ... tests 19:03:46 Starsie [n=Stars@pool-71-178-226-94.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:51 I think 19:03:52 yeah 19:03:58 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-150.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 baetis-fly [n=baetis-f@pool-96-245-219-99.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.12] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-155-98.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 weirdo [i=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 wolfboy22 [i=baumgold@tithonus.cs.brandeis.edu] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 andrewy [n=irssi@cl-53.lax-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 eirik [i=eirikald@tvilling.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 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joined #lisp 19:03:58 dublpaws [n=none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:07 sykopomp: Ah right so you did it with an if inside the < 3 part 19:04:18 yeah, but that's just one way to do it 19:04:27 cipher [n=cipher@pool-98-118-51-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 coliv [n=coliveir@12.15.114.194] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 tgoodsell [n=tgoodsel@c-75-69-127-140.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has 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mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 sbok [n=kobs@you.cant.haxit.org] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 hefner [n=hefner@c-68-50-101-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 19:04:37 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0FB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Success] 19:04:37 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:04:47 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Broken pipe] 19:04:50 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:13 sykopomp: I thought one way of doing it was if it's < 3 then .. (car (mapcar (lambda (x) (when (numberp x) x)) dc)) 19:05:32 uhhhhhh 19:05:32 but unfortunately that fills up the list with NIL's so it doesn't work 19:05:35 peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:01 kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:05 sykopomp: I was thinking that way you deal with ones that are shorter there and then but from that uhhh I guess it's bad practice 19:06:29 mapcar returns a list 19:06:57 sykopomp: Yea I wanted to strip out all the non numbers and return the first item that's left if any 19:06:57 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:07:19 if the when statement doesn't pass, it's going to fill the list with nils 19:07:21 kzar: FIND? REMOVE-IF? 19:09:08 (find-if #'numberp *list*) <-- 19:09:18 -!- kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-126-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a9b-024.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- hefner [n=hefner@c-68-50-101-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- sbok [n=kobs@you.cant.haxit.org] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- bartiosze [i=bartiosz@nintendos.pl] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178045090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- coliv [n=coliveir@12.15.114.194] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- lucca [n=lucca@kuu.accela.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- tgoodsell [n=tgoodsel@c-75-69-127-140.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1C6A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:18 -!- [tica] [n=tica@85.234.150.84] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:19 -!- optikalmouse [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279398477.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:19 -!- bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:19 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:09:19 actually... 19:09:22 (find-if #'numberp (list 'a 'b 3 4)) => 3 19:09:32 (I love using emacs for an irc client...) 19:09:49 kzar annotated #71864 with "bit better?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71864#3 19:09:58 sykopomp: you'll get tired sooner or later 19:10:18 -!- optikalm` is now known as optikalmouse 19:10:34 tc-rucho: unlikely. I like handling IRC with the same interface as most stuff I use. 19:10:49 sykopomp: you using erc? 19:10:54 tc-rucho: yup 19:11:09 _adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 coliv [n=coliveir@12.15.114.194] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 tgoodsell [n=tgoodsel@c-75-69-127-140.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 mulligan [n=user@e178045090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 crod [n=cmell@cb8a9b-024.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 segv [n=mb@p4FC1C6A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 [tica] [n=tica@85.234.150.84] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 bartiosze [i=bartiosz@nintendos.pl] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 lucca [n=lucca@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-126-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 sbok [n=kobs@you.cant.haxit.org] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 hefner [n=hefner@c-68-50-101-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 19:11:14 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:11:18 -!- kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:11:38 kgn_ [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:40 I tried that once, didn't like having emacs handling the irc, things became too messy, so I switched to a console client 19:11:51 irssi back then, weechat now 19:12:10 tc-rucho: I actually run a separate emacs session for ERC 19:12:20 hehehe 19:12:22 I don't like having all those buffers in my main emacs instance, and it lags stuff too much. 19:12:29 user___ [n=user@p54924ABF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:30 that's why I didn't like it 19:12:30 Good evening. 19:12:44 not to mention, I don't like crashing my code-emacs because of chatting (or having ERC there as a distraction) 19:12:49 but I like using ERC :P 19:12:53 evenin' beach :) 19:12:57 sykopomp: however, I do have all emacs bindings for line edition here, ^_^ 19:14:18 -!- sbok [n=kobs@you.cant.haxit.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:14:28 sbok [n=kobs@you.cant.haxit.org] has joined #lisp 19:15:23 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:16:10 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [No route to host] 19:16:16 aka-aka [i=dba322f1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7e1f668d49a2d710] has joined #lisp 19:16:48 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:17:08 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178045090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:17:43 Does Climacs fare better when it comes to threading and such compared to Emacs? 19:18:29 -!- _adeht is now known as adeht 19:19:51 -!- Mage__ is now known as repnop 19:20:21 considering it runs on CL... 19:20:26 <_8david> tic: CLIM works best with threading enabled. Count that as a "yes", if you like. :-) 19:20:27 one would hope 19:20:42 tic: hey. Are you interested in jumping aboard the hack week? 19:20:43 <_8david> Personally I think they just wanted to make life hard for backend authors. :-) 19:20:56 sykopomp, I am, but alas I can't. 19:21:04 tic: aw :( 19:21:19 -!- rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-60-79.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 19:21:28 _8david, yes, good point. However... that doesn't mean that Climacs is written in a way that utilizes threads. 19:21:40 -!- kgn_ [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:23:42 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:24:01 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 19:24:04 <_8david> well, climacs itself doesn't use threads afaik. I don't think an editor -should- have threads though, so I might not be the person to ask for an opinion on this. (that gnus hangs all the time instead of multiplexing properly doesn't count imnsho.) 19:24:12 -!- V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-febddf00-91.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:24:40 _8david, yeah, I heard beach's(?) opinion on the matter was not to employ custom applications within Climacs itself, but as separate CLIM panes. 19:24:49 _8david: emacs-like editors are a bit more than 'just' text editors. They're fairly large applications. 19:24:51 -!- george__ [n=george@189.107.197.4] has quit [No route to host] 19:25:10 -!- bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:27:21 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:27:53 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 19:29:14 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 19:30:08 kzar annotated #71864 with "almost" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71864#4 19:30:25 hello 19:30:51 hello schoppenhauer 19:31:10 i want to try clozure cl, but ... it is only for x86_64. i have an amd64-processor, but only a i386-linux-kernel. could it work anyway? 19:31:47 sykopomp: I think you where right about cond, it looks a lot better now 19:31:49 or do i also need a 64bit-kernel? 19:31:58 schoppenhauer: it runs on 32 bit i386, too 19:32:15 schoppenhauer: To run the 64-bit version of CCL, you need a 64-bit kernel, or to virtualize a 64-bit environment on your system (provided that your processor supports VT) 19:32:23 is clozure ansi cl? 19:32:28 schoppenhauer: but it is considered beta. 19:32:30 madnificent: sure 19:32:39 However, as the strangely numeric H4ns2 points out, CCL also has a 32-bit version now. 19:33:03 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA5E2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:33:06 -!- H4ns2 is now known as H4ns 19:33:17 H4ns2: the problem is, that one can never know, what "beta" means... "beta"-versions of hunchentoot mostly dont work, while "beta"-versions of sbcl always worked for me ^^ 19:33:23 chandler: apologies! you'll notice that my nickname is much prettier now! 19:33:34 H4ns: *again ^^* 19:33:34 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA5E2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:37 schoppenhauer: whatever. give it a try. 19:33:43 H4ns: It's 2/3rds of what it once was, I'll give you that. 19:33:56 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:33:56 H4ns: did you try it already? did it work for you? 19:34:07 <_8david> luis: preliminary texinfo-docstrings work now at http://repo.or.cz/w/texinfo-docstrings.git 19:34:29 <_8david> luis: If you have a repo.or.cz username, please let me know so that I can add you to the project. 19:34:38 H4ns: i mean, some people said that clozure cl may become the first-choice-implementation. i am satisfied with sbcl and clisp so far, ecl gets better, but maybe i should consider looking at it 19:34:44 schoppenhauer: i tried running slime with it, and that worked loading hunchentoot did not for some usocket issue, but i did not have the time to investigate yet. 19:35:24 H4ns: well, i dont know. i just heard that it may become "first choice" soon, so i should try it. 19:35:31 <_8david> Beware that refactoring is still a work in progress. I'll probably fork into a second project `docstring-parser' ultimately, leaving only the output generation code in this repository. 19:35:58 H4ns: so maybe i should use an svn checkout instead of some tarball, if its beta anyway? 19:36:25 schoppenhauer: you should use a checkout from svn, subscribe to openmcl-devel and maybe join #ccl 19:36:31 chandler: i didn't have any problems building sbcl 1.0.23 for sparc, but i had problems with some of the tests 19:36:49 lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 19:36:55 H4ns: ok, before i get into the installation-docs: is it hard to compile? (i.e. how much time should i plan for it - since atm i dont have much time) 19:36:59 locklace: Did all the contribs build? 19:37:08 schoppenhauer: it compiles in, say, a minute 19:37:08 locklace pasted "sbcl 1.0.23 sparc solaris test output" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71868 19:37:34 H4ns: i mean preparations i have to take (i am sure that a simple configure-make-make install is not enough...) 19:37:39 schoppenhauer: and no, it is no fuss at all. if it is, gbyers always responds fast. the svn checkout contains an executable tro bootstrap 19:37:55 H4ns: ah, ok, thanks. 19:37:58 chandler: don't know, do i have to do something extra to build them? 19:38:03 schoppenhauer: it is simpler than all that. 19:38:16 H4ns: sorry for asking, but ... well ... thats a factor that often no documentation says before ^^ 19:38:36 locklace: That's only slightly worse than on Linux MIPS 19:38:41 locklace: No, it should have built them via make.sh and finished with something like "the build finished successfully, including 15 (out of 15) contributed modules" 19:38:51 The only test that looks really worrying there is the raw-slot-equalp one. 19:38:51 schoppenhauer: np 19:40:06 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:40:13 _8david: makes sense. My username at repo.or.cz is luismbo. 19:40:30 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:30 H4ns: hm... http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl says that x86-32 is in prerelease-state, and ... well ... there is no svn-url of the form http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/release/1.2/linuxx8632/ccl. do you know which to use then? 19:42:04 chandler: well, i didn't save the make output but there are files called "test-passed" in the contrib directories, if that's of any help 19:42:17 locklace: In all of them? 19:42:32 schoppenhauer: s,release/1.2,trunk, 19:43:04 jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has joined #lisp 19:43:59 chandler: seems so 19:44:01 yakov [n=yakov__@95-28-193-219.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:44:10 hey 19:44:24 locklace: Are you willing to package up this binary so I can post it to the web site? 19:44:53 guys, I can't find SigLab anywhere 19:45:09 locklace: If so, the instructions are as follows: ln -s sbcl-1.0.22 sbcl-1.0.22-sparc-solaris; sh sbcl-1.0.22-sparc-solaris/binary-distribution.sh sbcl-1.0.22-sparc-solaris; bzip2 sbcl-1.0.22-sparc-solaris-binary.tar 19:45:16 chandler: i'll need to rebuild since i changed the default SBCL_HOME, but that shouldn't be a problem 19:45:32 locklace: Ah, OK 19:45:37 H4ns: http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/trunk/linuxx8632/ccl also doesnt exist 19:45:40 yakov: What is SigLab? 19:46:09 chandler: ok, will try to do it in the next couple of days 19:46:12 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:46:19 locklace: Cool. 19:46:40 schoppenhauer: you know, this is a http url, but i'm friendly and pasted it to my browser 19:46:52 schoppenhauer: http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/trunk/linuxx86/ccl/ 19:47:09 kzar annotated #71864 with " " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71864#5 19:47:15 chandler: SigLab is David McClaim's signal processing software release circa 2006 19:47:16 chandler: regarding the tests, the run-program.impure test always hangs waiting on some /bin/ed process, so i have to manually kill that process to get the rest of the tests to proceed 19:47:42 locklace: Odd. I wonder if I can debug that one on Solaris x86. 19:47:55 chandler: also, there seem to be some non-standard things in many of the .sh scripts, looks like someone relying on bash or something 19:48:05 H4ns: sorrry, thanks 19:48:22 chandler: so i had to modify a bunch of sheband lines and run-tests.lisp to use bash instead 19:52:11 V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-febddf00-91.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:54:37 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:55:01 BlueBlazer [n=tomdeben@75.149.54.1] has joined #lisp 19:57:07 -!- user___ [n=user@p54924ABF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:57:48 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:58:14 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 19:58:30 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 19:58:32 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58:46 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 20:02:48 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfbf2.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:03:48 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:04:00 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:07:41 -!- mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:10:03 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:35 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 20:11:58 Is that solaris port by chance for sparc64? or only sparc32? 20:12:10 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:12:42 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 20:12:43 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-61.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:13:48 p_l: sparc32. Scieneer does sparc 64, and threads too, I believe. 20:14:05 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfbf2.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:20 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:28 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:21:15 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 20:21:44 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.167.223] has quit [" An algorithm is a living organism of the solution."] 20:22:05 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:27:18 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-229-150.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:28:20 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:31:47 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:42 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:10 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 20:35:09 peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:16 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:37:11 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:37:41 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-158-30.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 20:39:37 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:39:44 -!- baetis-fly [n=baetis-f@pool-96-245-219-99.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:39:53 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:40:07 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:40:21 so, silly question about naming conventions 20:40:35 reading through AMOP, there's a lot of functions called fun-name* 20:40:50 some have versions without the * 20:42:53 this is a real question, no pun whatsoever. Is there a reason why CL could not be ported OpenCL? 20:43:18 mathrick [n=mathrick@users172.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:43:18 it would by fairly useless, I guess, but it is just something I was wondering about 20:43:47 madnificent: OpenCL only looks like C. 20:44:15 *michaelw* can't even parse the sentence 20:44:26 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:44:32 -!- dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:44:43 michaelw: OpenCL is the new hot and trendy GPU computing language. 20:44:54 pkhuong: that I know 20:45:34 *hefner_* waits for cl-opencl 20:45:41 michaelw: would it be possible to port a common lisp implementation (say clisp (not that I intend to do anything like that)) to it. 20:46:05 a-s` [n=user@92.80.72.93] has joined #lisp 20:46:22 hefner_: "openclosure", surely 20:46:27 -!- drdo [n=psykon@wifi.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:46:55 madnificent: well, you can also port a CL implementation to Brainfuck or unlambda, but... 20:47:24 Jasko, i am trying to find where i can get CUSP, to no manange the loading of the lisp exectutable.. first i am going to try to get it to work with clisp (no initlaization file right?) then after that ABCL 20:47:46 to not manange trying to start the lisp executaable 20:48:16 Xof: thanks for the clarification. the issue is in cl-perec a persistency lib... some shared-initialize methods expect a certain environment, and it's not available when the prototype is used for mere dispatching purposes. so we'll have to protect against this situation in the user code... 20:48:24 michaelw: I was thinking about memory issues or something of the likes 20:48:45 Jasko, probly the best step-by-step for setting up to use CLISP 20:49:51 madnificent: we should stop buying CPUs and just use the GPU! 20:49:59 dmiles_afk, you'll probably need to run from what's in svn 20:50:01 @dmiles_afk there is also Dandelion, http://sourceforge.net/projects/dandelion-ecl 20:50:28 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 20:50:48 -!- phytovor [i=mitja@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:51:10 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-17.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:12 Jasko, yeah i am starting out by running the dejavu svn 20:51:46 just the jasko.tim.lisp is all i need right? 20:51:58 ok, so is your question where to look in the code? 20:52:23 yeah and also what to set the PRefernces->Lisp->Impl,emtation fileds to 20:52:23 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 20:52:59 yeah and also what to set the Prefernces->Lisp->Implemtation files to .. so i am not trying to inspire it autostart something 20:53:25 I don't think there is currently an option to not start something 20:53:59 ok, yeah i just needed to hear that for a self-sanity check.. so basically i should trace down that autostart process 20:54:29 yeah, that lives in swank/SwankInterface.java 20:56:49 -!- Modius_ is now known as Modius 20:59:54 chrisdon` [n=user@82-33-137-16.cable.ubr02.wiga.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:00:44 Jasko, ok good.. found it, i havent added a preferences checkbox lately.. but i think we ought to have one eventually 21:01:43 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:01:57 [_] Assume Lisp/Swank is Listening 21:02:15 happily, they're not too onerous to add 21:02:24 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-146-187.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:06 athos_ [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 21:03:40 lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has joined #lisp 21:04:00 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-83-242.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:06:39 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.5.23.105] has joined #lisp 21:07:15 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 21:07:53 Jasko, would this actualyl be useRmoteLisp ? 21:07:55 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:08:15 -!- athos_ [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 21:08:17 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 21:08:17 meaning CUSP ping for a running server? 21:08:57 implementation = RemoteImplementation.findImplementation(); 21:09:11 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 21:11:48 you might be able to use the remote option, but that's intended for connecting to another computer 21:12:00 I suppose there's not a real distinction, as far as it is concerned 21:12:09 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:13:04 i have to run to Xmas for a few days with inlaws in like 45 minutes.. but definately am going to get on getting cusp to use abcl when i get back.. if i dont have it done before i have to leave 21:13:31 I just now making a ABCLImplementation.java based on the remote one 21:14:13 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 21:14:37 but nice this 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segv [n=mb@p4FC1C6A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- [tica] [n=tica@85.234.150.84] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:17 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:23:34 gtasso [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7e1e9d6253ca4fcf] has joined #lisp 21:24:45 kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:12 What's a concise way to add up a list of numbers? 21:25:19 sum? 21:25:43 tic: Hmm that's undefined for me 21:25:48 er, + 21:25:56 (reduce #'+ list) 21:25:57 kzar: (reduce #'+ list) 21:26:02 ah right thanks 21:26:15 (apply would also work in that case) 21:26:26 tic: no, it's ba 21:26:27 d 21:26:29 I'm not sure why, though. 21:26:36 rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has joined #lisp 21:26:47 for long lists apply would become a problem 21:26:51 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:26:52 Ah, yes. 21:27:23 so reduce is the correct fold? (left fold is it? can never remember) 21:27:43 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6747d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-69f7eeb88c3eecb5] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:28:02 tic: right, I believe it also has a :from-end keyword 21:28:08 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.182.239] has joined #lisp 21:28:41 that right meant 'correct' 21:28:57 I guess that means left-fold. 21:29:03 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-245-231.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 coliv [n=coliveir@12.15.114.194] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 tgoodsell [n=tgoodsel@c-75-69-127-140.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 crod [n=cmell@cb8a9b-024.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 segv [n=mb@p4FC1C6A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 [tica] [n=tica@85.234.150.84] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 bartiosze [i=bartiosz@nintendos.pl] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 lucca [n=lucca@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-126-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 hefner [n=hefner@c-68-50-101-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 21:29:47 tic: reduce also takes :from-end t 21:30:20 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:30:55 apply takes 1/3 the time of reduce for small lists on my box 21:32:14 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 21:32:41 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:33:15 When would one want to do a right fold? 21:33:30 (I have a bad imagination) 21:33:53 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.182.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:57 when you're a haskeller :-P 21:34:51 the foldr in (reduce ... :from-end t) is silent. 21:34:52 who knows, but at least you've got it when you need it. 21:35:21 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-83-242.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 21:35:39 good point. 21:36:12 Lisp does have batteries included, just not the kind of batteries you'd normally use. :) 21:36:16 What would be a good way to turn '(1 2 3 4) into '(1 3 6 10)? I thought mapcar but that doesn't pass on the value of the previous items 21:36:19 dlowe: reduce is faster for me, though i'm comparing (reduce (lambda (x y) (+ x y)) list) with (apply #'+ list) 21:36:52 kzar, loop, maybe? 21:37:03 ok just checking there's not a ready done thing 21:37:48 tic: compare (reduce #'cons '(a b c d e) :from-end t :initial-value nil) vs. (reduce #'cons '(a b c d e)) 21:38:48 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:39:05 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-61.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 21:39:38 HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:39:50 -!- optikalmouse [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279398477.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:52 michaelw, ah, yes. I'm thinking of reduce in terms of operations that do simple transforms of the values, not structural. 21:39:54 alinrus [n=alinrus@92.82.6.198] has joined #lisp 21:40:14 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-61.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:42:15 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 21:43:15 -!- mulligan` [n=user@e178045090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:46:36 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:50:45 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:50 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:52:47 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 21:53:11 tic: one way to think of it is that (reduce ^ (x1 x2 ... xn)) == x1 ^ x2 ^ ... ^ xn, and :from-end determines the associativity of ^ 21:54:11 attila_lendvai: Is there a way to unassign objects in cl-perec, so they are removed from memory (but still loadable through the database)? 21:54:27 michaelw, yeah, I had to look at the left fold picture at wikipedia to sort it out. :) 21:58:03 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:58:43 madnificent: remove-cached-instance, but be aware of the cached association slots 21:59:07 *attila_lendvai* notes that this is a bad name 21:59:24 attila_lendvai: they will not be loaded again upon access? 22:00:08 -!- kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:00:18 madnificent: dunno, we rarely need this and then i just go through a sequence and never look back 22:00:33 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-61.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 22:00:51 i'd need to look around in the code to answer 22:01:45 attila_lendvai: I was affraid it wouldn't at all be possible. The fact that it can probably do it (and perhaps with automatic reloading) is good enough. I'll give it a run when I find the time for it :D 22:02:11 too much spelling errors, /me gets a coffee 22:02:16 the only slippery part is the association caches 22:02:38 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-61.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 22:03:11 attila_lendvai: it's surely easy to find in the doc^Wunit tests, no? :-P 22:04:04 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 22:04:23 michaelw: if there was anything in the doc about this than it would be outdated for sure... 22:06:09 you actually have documentation? 22:06:09 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:06:49 another question, does the author of kpax (Sven Van Caekenberghe) in #lisp? 22:06:53 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:07:10 madnificent: never seen him here 22:07:29 thanks michaelw 22:08:27 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:39 elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has joined #lisp 22:11:12 s 22:12:58 S-expressions elurin, not just s 22:13:29 -!- rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has quit [] 22:15:11 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 22:17:48 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:18:25 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 22:24:20 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has quit [] 22:27:03 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:43 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 22:30:59 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 22:31:44 -!- sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:40:19 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.12] has left #lisp 22:44:14 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:44:44 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:45:08 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a9b-024.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:45:16 crod [n=cmell@cb8a17-187.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:45:54 -!- aka-aka [i=dba322f1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7e1f668d49a2d710] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:46:24 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless34.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:46:33 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.247.196.124] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:46:58 pkhuong_ [n=pkhuong@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:47:08 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:47:13 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 22:47:35 -!- ebzzry__ [n=rmm@124.217.82.211] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:48:53 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:49:05 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:49:34 -!- a-s` [n=user@92.80.72.93] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:49:40 When one learns CL, is it much of a different to learn Scheme - is it worthwile to learn Scheme? I'm also kinda interested in something I read about today, MultiLisp (for parallel computing). Seems like a lot of dialects, is moving between them horribly difficult? 22:50:12 Kinda hoping the difference between CL and Scheme isn't quite as bad as say, Python to Ruby, or Python to PHP/Ruby to PHP, etc. 22:51:47 I would say it's not, but sometimes the differences are very subtle, but extremely important ... and the similarities can hide fundamental differences. 22:53:03 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:54:10 milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.12] has joined #lisp 22:55:26 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-149-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 22:55:29 lispm [n=joswig@f054053090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:55:41 That makes me feel a bit better then, Guest53748. Taking a whole lot to really learn common lisp so far..lots of time, but things are starting to click at least. I do enjoy the language, and hope to use it in stuff later. 22:55:44 TDT: scheme is a very different language. however, it's still very lispy, so knowing one lisp will help learning another. 22:57:04 peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:12 cddr [n=user@user-5443a3d9.lns5-c8.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:00:34 drewc: Yeah, I'll have to read a bit more about scheme and determine if it's worth it for me to learn or not, once I get CL kinda under my belt a bit more 23:01:09 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-83-242.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:01:21 what's the easiest way to fix emacs' indentation of initialize-instance? 23:02:18 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-204-196-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:02:34 TDT: it is very worth it to learn scheme.. it will help you become a better programmer. 23:05:20 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-158-30.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:09:30 mulligan [n=user@e178043110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:10:53 drewc, in what way? 23:11:24 it helps to read SICP 23:11:48 Perhaps. But just learning Scheme itself. 23:11:48 cddr: what does that mean? 23:12:07 (cdr (cdr ...)) 23:12:10 meh. 23:12:59 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:13:19 S11001001: the first line of the method starts at column 11 23:13:32 which doesn't seem right 23:13:59 doesn't happen for me, are you in slime minor mode? 23:14:33 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 23:15:03 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@pool-71-105-154-91.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:15:18 (setq lisp-indent-function 'cl-indent:function) seemed to work 23:16:25 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a17-187.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:16:26 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:16:27 I have (add-hook 'slime-mode-hook 'cl-indent) 23:17:27 -!- davazp` [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:17:48 -!- tgoodsell [n=tgoodsel@c-75-69-127-140.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:18:33 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:18:52 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit ["leaving"] 23:21:23 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 23:25:13 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.5.23.105] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:26:16 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:26:37 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:27:02 -!- chrisdon` is now known as chrisdone 23:27:06 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-83-242.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 23:27:20 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.12] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:28:36 -!- coliv [n=coliveir@12.15.114.194] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:28:52 crod [n=cmell@cb8a17-158.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:34:12 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:35:32 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:36:12 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 23:37:06 -!- pervonisse [n=yakov@79.136.60.147] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:47 -!- _8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:38:30 _8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:41:56 -!- rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:42:12 rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 23:43:16 koning_robot [n=aap@dhcp-077-248-142-146.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 23:43:24 -!- koning_r1bot [n=aap@dhcp-077-248-142-146.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:43:51 ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:27 _newman_ [n=newman@208.43.99.186] has joined #lisp 23:49:11 jestocost [n=cmell@cad439-014.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:49:49 NotADJ [n=TDJACR@Wikipedia/Thedjatclubrock] has joined #lisp 23:50:08 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-83-242.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:50:08 -!- NotADJ [n=TDJACR@Wikipedia/Thedjatclubrock] has left #lisp 23:51:33 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a17-158.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:51:37 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 23:53:27 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:59:37 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:54 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp