00:01:23 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:02:43 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:03:01 Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:05:26 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:05:31 -!- banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:05:40 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 00:05:45 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:06:02 banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:07 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.98.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:09:09 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:11:46 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:02 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:13:58 I just want to jump and run around the house in excitement --> http://rafb.net/p/RA3qrX66.html 00:14:17 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@209.6.216.149] has quit [] 00:14:42 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:15:09 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 00:17:18 -!- cddr` [n=user@user-5443a3d9.lns5-c8.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:19:19 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:20:35 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:49 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:22:36 dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-043-182.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:21 Quadrescence: I thought you weren't allowed to run lisp on iphones 00:25:23 divinebovine [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has joined #lisp 00:25:47 sykopomp: Why not? :D 00:26:54 dudidu...I would like to scan something for a regular expression and if found do something, where something also uses a found register. Should I really use let for that or is there better style? 00:28:06 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:28:07 Quadrescence: I seem to recall there being a limitation on iphone apps where you weren't allowed to ship something that could interpret code. 00:28:16 and seeing as a REPL is considered an interpreter... 00:28:16 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:28:31 cYmen: maybe you want `register-groups-bind' 00:28:40 sykopomp: I compiled and built it myself. 00:29:03 argh, the things one must do to test libraries 00:29:30 so far, installation of visual c++ express on my windows vm has taken over an hour 00:29:49 (I need it to build a dependency for my wxWidgets lisp binding) 00:34:53 -!- dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-013-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:42 uh, no nyef around? 00:38:25 no nyef, no xach. The channel is falling apart! :( 00:38:30 the end is nigh 00:38:43 uh :( 00:38:54 -!- hothoofs [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:38:54 just wanted to show him this strange book cover: http://churchburning.org/w/tumblelog/images/1189780928.tzsvk.jpg :} 00:39:49 Wow 00:40:13 ....wow 00:41:37 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:41:39 exactly :> 00:41:47 it's very... graphic. 00:42:30 haha 00:42:41 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:44:30 -!- phao [n=phao@20158145055.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:49:05 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:50:09 that sums up the early 80s better than anything else i've seen. 00:51:12 heh 00:51:48 locklace: it reminds me of the megaman 1/2 box art. 00:52:35 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 00:53:54 and i can rest easy now knowing which language he-man would have used 00:54:35 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 00:55:29 -!- tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@190.191.162.100] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 00:55:39 pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 00:55:57 mgr: that used to be up on our office door at work 00:56:13 along with a similarly-explicit ad fr a modem from the 70s 00:57:33 hmm.. 8bit Atari... that was an interesting arch for it's time :D 00:58:05 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:00:24 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:43 eevar_ [n=snuffpup@36.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:13 naiv [n=user@ARennes-356-1-8-121.w86-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:02:21 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:01 -!- naiv [n=user@ARennes-356-1-8-121.w86-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:05:27 Soulmann [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:10 -!- Soulman__ [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:07:14 eevar [n=snuffpup@36.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:27 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:07:56 HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 01:15:00 -!- eevar_ [n=snuffpup@36.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 01:18:35 -!- eevar__ [n=snuffpup@36.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:19:13 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:19:23 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:20:08 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-145-185.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:21:28 hothoofs [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 01:24:33 -!- sctb [n=sctb@mail.arcurve.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:24:48 -!- dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:31:00 sykopomp: iirc, the restriction is that you're not allowed to execute *downloaded* code other than by interpreters supplied by Apple (i.e. JavaScript) 01:31:55 kpreid: so you're free to download an interpreter and write your own code for it? 01:32:58 it would seem so 01:32:58 Heck no, users running arbitrary code on the device? Heaven forbid! 01:32:58 foom, memo from _deepfire: the "mips64" buildbot is up once again and waiting to be re-enrolled in the waterfall. 01:33:19 ugh, sbcl on windows is still slightly painful 01:33:57 in particular, asdf doesn't work properly 01:34:07 (I realise this isn't entirely sbcl's fault :) 01:34:24 jestocost [n=cmell@d28851-112.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:34:43 minion: memo for chandler: I should just admit I'm not getting to these: there are requests (on -requests) for lisppaste on #plexydesk, #scplugin, and #haskell 01:34:43 Remembered. I'll tell chandler when he/she/it next speaks. 01:36:04 -!- crod [n=cmell@d28851-112.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:36:40 minion: discard my memo 01:36:41 OK, I threw it out. 01:37:24 kpreid: Thanks. I had lost track of some of these. 01:38:10 kpreid: I don't think I'm going to do #haskell, since I think it was asked that I remove it at one point. 01:40:20 -!- divinebovine [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [No route to host] 01:40:42 mm, the history I recall is that they wrote their own pastebot when lisppaste was having a particularly flaky period 01:40:53 then removed lisppaste because why have two? 01:40:55 I'll ask in channel. 01:41:09 the stated reason for #haskell request was redundancy... 01:41:35 but it's from a random user to judge by the tone 01:41:43 redundancy? 01:42:30 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 01:42:30 "for when hpaste.org fails" 01:42:35 I think I looked at the other two requests and saw that the channels in question essentially had one person in them. I'm trying to clean up inactive channels to reduce the number of connections of freenode (or avoid growing it), so adding nearly-empty channels is a bit counterproductive. 01:43:01 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-128-24.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:02 chandler: btw, I noticed the per-channel coloring settings, good idea 01:43:19 kpreid: The way it was being done before was a massive kludge. 01:43:33 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-101-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:43:42 a sensible generic-library thing, but not really suitable for lisppaste considered as integrated software 01:44:36 Yeah. And more cleanup of colorize is on my "round tuit" list, near the top. 01:46:00 ths_ [n=ths@X6277.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 01:47:36 kpreid: Given that hpaste does not announce to the channel, I don't think it's much of an imposition to use lisppaste without channel announcement if hpaste is dead. 01:47:41 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-225-78.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:48:42 chandler: er, hpaste is *supposed* to announce...little checkbox next to "save" 01:51:11 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:52:38 Oh 01:52:44 Perhaps the users aren't getting that right, then :-) 01:53:21 *kpreid* shrugs 01:53:24 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-198-69.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:17 Tordek [n=tordek@192-1-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 01:57:35 -!- ths [n=ths@X669a.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:05:03 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@d28851-112.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has 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[n=eliasm@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:20:22 durka [n=durka@130.58.196.238] has joined #lisp 03:22:52 ebzzry_ [n=rmm@115.147.99.198] has joined #lisp 03:25:43 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.84.242] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:26:48 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-f9135284716122b4] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:27:25 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-73.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:07 -!- waldofll [n=waldofll@c-75-74-217-138.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 03:36:41 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:38:09 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@192-1-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:38:43 mattrepl- [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-73.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:17 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-187.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 03:42:08 lemonodor_ [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-17.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:35 Tordek [n=tordek@192-1-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 03:53:34 spfetsch [n=spfetsch@dhcp056-008.openport.buffalo.edu] has joined #lisp 03:54:51 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-73.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:54:51 -!- eliasm [n=eliasm@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:55:13 eliasm [n=eliasm@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:55:57 Is there anything resembling a useful/portable "macroexpand-all" out there in any library? 03:56:18 I mean, a portable one 03:56:55 Modius: you need a codewalker for that. You might want to look at how SWANK does it. I think pretty much every implementation provides one. 03:57:45 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-17.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:01:15 manic12_ [n=manic12@c-98-227-126-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:02 -!- spfetsch is now known as luckymickey 04:02:21 -!- luckymickey is now known as spfetsch 04:02:36 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:02:51 -!- spfetsch [n=spfetsch@dhcp056-008.openport.buffalo.edu] has left #lisp 04:06:33 -!- ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-128-24.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:11:23 -!- mattrepl- [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-73.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 04:12:01 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:16 evening 04:15:33 c|mell [n=cmell@cb8abf-016.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:16:51 heh. I always want to type 'cvs -z3 up -dP' in SBCL git repo's. old habits die hard. 04:21:59 jaoswald [n=user@74.73.49.134] has joined #lisp 04:33:58 -!- topo [n=topo@53.pool85-58-128.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Client Quit] 04:38:01 -!- qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:46:52 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 04:55:27 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cb8abf-016.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:55:45 tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@190.191.162.100] has joined #lisp 04:57:37 qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 04:59:11 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:00:33 im using slime, and I changed a global variable. how do I tell it to load that in? 05:00:48 C-c C-k does not seem to load it. 05:01:05 Are you loading a file that defines it? 05:01:12 jsoft: how do you redefine that global variable? 05:01:44 <_3b> if you mean you changed a defvar, use M-C-x on that form 05:01:55 ok thanks 05:02:09 _3b: newfangled magic ;) 05:02:18 wait. 05:02:24 that will close my window :D 05:02:39 M-C-x closes windows in my WM :( 05:02:58 <_3b> (or use SETF on it, or unintern it before reloading the file, etc) 05:03:04 <_3b> esc C-x then? 05:03:16 jsoft: what WM are you using? 05:03:18 <_3b> or M-x slime-eval-defun 05:03:59 define another keybinding for slime-eval-defun 05:04:14 <_3b> or just change it to defparameter, then C-c C-k would work on it 05:04:33 jsoft: we are assuming you know the difference between DEFVAR and DEFPARAMETER 05:04:52 by the way, I have to mess with some arrays, but, afaik, they are lists that can't be processed as lists, so, what's the point with it? anyway, I need to do a nth on an array, how should I do it? 05:05:01 *_3b* was assuming not knowing was the problem :) 05:05:20 arrays aren't lists 05:05:20 use aref on arrays 05:05:33 (elt would work too) 05:05:46 elt would work on vectors 05:06:04 and how am I supposed to get an item by it's position number? 05:06:23 elt is like nth IIRC 05:06:38 seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E466C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:38 tc-rucho: aref, as qbg said 05:06:39 No, backwards 05:06:49 qbg: just tried it but doesn't seem to be the answer 05:06:57 hmm 05:07:10 sequence comes first in elt 05:07:19 Just use aref 05:07:45 clhs 17.3 05:07:46 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 17.3. 05:07:54 clhs sequences 05:07:54 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for sequences. 05:08:34 clhs aref 05:08:34 c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a16-086.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:08:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_aref.htm 05:08:51 tc-rucho: you should learn that sequences is the CL term including both vectors and lists. 05:10:04 tc-rucho: while vectors are the term for one-dimensional arrays 05:10:59 tc-rucho: which will help you understand where in the CLHS to look to answer such questions 05:11:49 jaoswald: No I dont really know the difference. 05:11:54 tc-rucho: I am using cwm 05:11:59 EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 05:12:01 clhs defvar 05:12:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpar.htm 05:12:32 jsoft: read the CLHS to understand that they differ in exactly the respect in which you are having a problem. 05:12:34 got it 05:12:40 Is there a Common Lisp library that works with SBCL in Windows and lets me communicate with Microsoft MSSQL to run queries and get result sets? 05:12:45 just found my way with aref 05:13:18 I know about CL-SQL's ODBC capability; looking for something that doesn't require that I set up an ODBC alias first. 05:13:21 since I'm using a 2 dimention array I had to specify 2 subscripts 05:13:52 tc-rucho: You could also use ROW-MAJOR-AREF :p 05:14:07 jaoswald: cool, sussed. 05:14:08 -!- jjong [n=jjong@203.246.179.177] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:14:42 tc-rucho: the fact that you brought "lists" into your description is confusing, then, because it implies you were dealing with sequential data. 05:15:58 jaoswald: well, I would have used lists of lists instead of arrays of... arrays? 05:16:17 S= 05:16:37 What kind of data are you working with? 05:16:55 tc-rucho: you don't use arrays of arrays 05:16:56 qbg: check xlib:keyboard-mapping from CLX 05:17:12 two dimensional arrays and arrays of arrays are different 05:17:22 stassats: ok, just had my first exposure to arrays 05:17:24 clim define-superapp-command 05:17:24 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for define-superapp-command. 05:17:47 tc-rucho: arrays of arrays can easily be used in Lisp, and are distinct from 2-dimensional arrays. These different data structures all have different properties that make them better or worse matches for any particular application. 05:17:53 tic: superapp is the name of application frame 05:17:58 stassats: I find these arrays messy 05:17:58 clime define-command 05:18:04 clim define-command 05:18:04 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/27-1.html#_1380 05:18:12 stassats, thanks! 05:18:23 jaoswald: seems this is a 2 dimentional array 05:18:52 do commands have to be named com-foo? 05:20:03 no, it's a convention. 05:21:42 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1CF6C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:22:03 only place I specified the command was in the name, so I'm assuming magic is done that strips away anything behind the dash. Would that be correct? 05:22:14 segv [n=mb@p4FC1C572.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:38 clhs command-name-from-symbol 05:22:39 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for command-name-from-symbol. 05:22:42 clim command-name-from-symbol 05:22:43 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/27-2.html#_1402 05:22:44 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 05:23:12 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E46070.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:23:19 Thanks. 05:23:37 -!- ths_ [n=ths@X6277.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:24:26 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@192-1-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:24:56 Anyone tried using MSSQL with Lisp? 05:25:40 Good morning. 05:26:49 tic: I see you are reding up on CLIM! Excellent! 05:28:27 beach, I followed the tutorial this morning. So far I must say it's sexy. I'm not sure if it's because it's written in Lisp, or if it's that it's a GUI or simply because the initial explanation of event-driven vs CLIM-ish (MVC done right?) fascinates me. 05:28:50 *tic* overuses "it's" for fun and profit. 05:29:01 -!- durka [n=durka@130.58.196.238] has quit [] 05:29:14 -!- persi [n=user@adsl-4-102-202.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:29:35 dakeyras_ [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:33 beach, how would you (briefly) say CLIM relates to MVC? 05:31:13 -!- dakeyras_ [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 05:31:15 wow. it's like the good old days. first of the month and we're up *.11 already! 05:32:16 s/up/up to/ 05:32:29 What's the *? 05:32:40 1.0.23 05:33:03 so 1.0.23.11? 05:33:13 yes 05:33:24 Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 05:34:15 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 05:34:26 slyrus_: blame nikodemus (: 05:34:45 i'd buy him a beer if he were nearby :) 05:38:51 vasa [n=vasa@mm-155-90-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 05:40:02 -!- EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net/"] 05:40:18 epoch [n=FAIL@adsl-69-209-98-151.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:38 -!- jaoswald [n=user@74.73.49.134] has left #lisp 05:47:37 dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has joined #lisp 06:01:32 -!- mib_fubatmmb [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-55acf43301973e31] has left #lisp 06:04:33 tic: CLIM gives you all the tools you need to implement an MVC-style application. 06:04:55 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has quit [] 06:07:45 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:07:56 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:08:07 beach, I was more thinking about the mindset, but I guess Doing and Reading is better than you explaining. 06:08:53 hooray, cargo cult computer science 06:09:14 -!- inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:09:45 Heh. 06:10:13 -!- manic12_ [n=manic12@c-98-227-126-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:10:54 replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-16-112.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:11:09 -!- replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-16-112.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:11:17 fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:08 -!- replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:16:35 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #lisp 06:17:24 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:19:18 mib_fubatmmb [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-55acf43301973e31] has joined #lisp 06:20:31 crod [n=cmell@cb8a16-086.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:21:35 HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 06:22:24 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a16-086.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:25:58 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-141-26-96.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:30:47 -!- qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:31:43 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 06:32:31 -!- mib_fubatmmb [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-55acf43301973e31] has left #lisp 06:33:04 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:33:17 mib_fubatmmb [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-55acf43301973e31] has joined #lisp 06:33:32 -!- mib_fubatmmb [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-55acf43301973e31] has left #lisp 06:33:58 mib_fubatmmb [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-55acf43301973e31] has joined #lisp 06:38:46 has someone already ported cl's format to clojure? 06:40:58 i'm thinking of doing it, but i want to eschew double efforts 06:42:17 probably, it's better to ask in #clojure 06:42:24 omg 06:42:32 sorry, missed the channel 06:43:02 -!- mib_fubatmmb [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-55acf43301973e31] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 06:43:59 milanj [n=milan@79.101.139.98] has joined #lisp 06:44:32 gtasso [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-601b2e887e74da86] has joined #lisp 06:49:33 danlei: you might also look to beach's reimplementation of format 06:52:36 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.139.98] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:57:44 jestocost [n=cmell@cad43e-101.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:58:47 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a16-086.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:01:39 reading java code and UML diagrams really makes one appreciate CLOS 07:11:19 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:12:29 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-28-242.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 07:12:53 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 07:15:18 -!- tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@190.191.162.100] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 07:16:12 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-75-75.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 07:16:41 good morning 07:16:54 morning mvilleneuve 07:20:23 elurin [n=user@85.96.232.233] has joined #lisp 07:24:18 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:24:24 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:28:59 -!- NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit ["Go Canada!"] 07:32:52 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:39:55 slyrus_: _writing_ java code even more so... :/ 07:40:39 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-139-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:42:01 Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 07:43:08 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:44:06 Good morning. 07:44:22 hi spiaggia 07:44:28 hello spiaggia 07:50:12 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-28-242.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:50:16 -!- dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:50:27 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 07:52:33 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-169.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 07:53:38 -!- mtrimpe [n=mtrimpe@d107110.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [] 07:57:47 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 07:57:52 good morning 08:03:32 *tic* tries printing the manual, curses over bad rasterization by psnup and/or pdftops 08:09:07 skarn [n=skarn@dynamic-acs-72-23-130-83.zoominternet.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:28 -!- slava [n=slava@li13-154.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 08:10:29 Neburg [n=ruben@ip565039cb.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 08:12:08 Daeshim [n=daeshim@adsl-214-210-51.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:10 Hey 08:12:20 Anyone used infobot? 08:15:28 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:11 Daeshim: Why do you ask? 08:17:53 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-139-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:21:35 weird, in SBCL, the system you're cross compiling _from_ is called the `host' (as opposed to `target'), while in autoconf --host means the system you're cross compiling _to_ (as opposed to --build)? 08:22:05 plage: Sorry for the delayed response. I am trying to used the .fact files. 08:22:08 No idea how. 08:22:14 kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:47 Daeshim: How is that related to Lisp? 08:24:17 Let's assume he wants to do that in lisp ;-) 08:24:34 I was looking for a network that was running infobot. You all was listed. 08:24:55 Was hoping for some useful help on the matter since it isn't detailed anywhere as far as I can find. 08:26:32 not even at infobot.org ? 08:27:05 essi [n=user@unaffiliated/essi] has joined #lisp 08:27:39 Not even at the site. 08:27:49 They host the files but don't give documentation. 08:27:51 Hi Everyone 08:28:00 I am sure the information goes in the db table. 08:28:01 hello essi 08:28:03 I just don't see where. 08:28:06 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:28:58 inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 08:29:01 essi: You seem to be new here, right? 08:31:18 ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has joined #lisp 08:32:17 Daeshim pasted "Talking?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71385 08:32:49 Thought I would check the project out. 08:33:52 Daeshim: if you're referring to minion, it is written in CL. I'm fairly certain that's not the infobot you're looking for. 08:34:00 Daeshim, sorry, wrong channel. 08:34:10 Ah nah worries 08:35:09 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:36:22 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-16-106.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 08:37:46 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:38:15 splittist [n=splittis@46-126.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:38:17 morning 08:38:20 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:38:25 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:38:25 hello splittist 08:38:34 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:39:02 yes plage....am pretty much a lisp newbie 08:39:18 essi: What made you want to learn Lisp? 08:40:05 I was kind of lured into it by a colleague...and later decided it was one of the joys of life 08:40:25 essi: Where do you work? 08:41:01 oh, my job is totally unrelated to my lisp passions....I follow lisp as a hobby for the time being 08:41:04 Daeshim pasted "Custom PHP Bot" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71386 08:41:19 slime is somehow in some kind of thing where I cant get a prompt. how do I tell it to give up whatever its trying to evaluate, and give me a prompt? 08:41:20 There I shared 08:41:24 *Daeshim* is leaving now 08:41:26 Daeshim, we really do not care. Please stop pasting in #lisp. 08:41:39 I thought it was a place to share code? 08:41:57 essi: OK, I was just wondering because you mentioned a colleague. 08:42:01 Yes, but you're aiming it at #lisp, which causes it to notify us about PHP code. Not relevant to #lisp. 08:42:04 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:42:43 plage: am wondering, does lisp provide interesting employment opportunities as well? to match its esthetic attractions.... 08:43:05 essi: Sure, ITA is always hiring for instance. 08:43:21 I am sorry. 08:43:26 essi: But I wouldn't bet on Lisp as a strategic career move. 08:43:36 jsoft: can you be more specific? 08:43:46 jsoft: C-c C-c at the REPL, or C-c C-b in some .lisp buffer 08:44:01 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:44:26 *stassats* didn't know about C-c C-b 08:44:43 luis: the REPL does nothing. All it says is: ; pipelined request... (swank:listener-eval " in the stats bar. 08:44:50 C-c C-c does nothing. 08:44:57 Nor does C-c C-b. 08:45:22 plage: so you think it'd better remain a leisure time thing, right? 08:46:46 essi: I use it at work, and I always have, but my employments have been unrelated to Lisp. It is fine if you can use it at work, and you might want to try to do that, but like I said, don't bet on it to get you a job. 08:47:30 -!- Daeshim [n=daeshim@adsl-214-210-51.cha.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 08:47:31 essi: Furthermore, many people (including myself) think that you become a better programmer if you know Lisp, even if you don't program in it directly. 08:48:01 jsoft: You're probably using a non-threaded Lisp, like Clisp. 08:48:08 plage: it could get you a job if you decide to become your own employer :) 08:48:11 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-079-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:16 plage: Right 08:48:31 mvilleneuve: Definitely! :) 08:48:53 mvilleneuve: Would you say it's a sustainable decision? 08:49:28 tcr: um... well.. super 08:49:38 tcr: how do I get back to the normal REPL then? 08:49:42 (being on IRC makes proctoring exams less boring) :) 08:49:53 its sbcl anyway. 08:49:55 jsoft: By pressing C-c C-b which sends SIGINT to the inferior Lisp process. 08:50:05 it's sbcl? On which platform? 08:50:12 openbsd 08:50:18 essi: Don't worry about that. Just learn the langauge. 08:50:24 essi: absolutely 08:50:37 jsoft: Try to send SIGINT to the sbcl process 08:50:59 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:51:06 jsoft: If that doesn't help, kill the process altogether, and restart slime (M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp) 08:51:33 -!- ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:51:39 plage: what Lisp do you work with? CL? 08:51:41 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-139-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:52:18 essi: better than that - SICL! 08:52:29 essi: Yes. That's pretty much the only one available these days. Unless you cosinder Scheme to be a kind of Lisp (which I don't). 08:52:50 essi: in this channel Lisp is mostly used as a synonym for Common Lisp. 08:52:55 tcr: thanks. kill -9 and a restart done it. 08:53:44 jsoft: -9 is not SIGINT, did you try SIGINT? 08:53:48 dont you consider clojure a real alternative for CL? 08:54:29 ineiros [n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 08:55:45 Chrononaut: Me? I have no opinion about that. 08:55:50 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.167.223] has joined #lisp 08:56:02 luis: yes i tried SIGINT. 08:57:27 jsoft: That may be a general problem for sbcl on openbsd; You could try to start some sbcl process, than do something like (loop (format t "Hello!~%) (sleep 1)), then try to send the process SIGINT. I think this _should_ land you in the debugger 08:57:38 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@93-138-124-26.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:04:59 tcr: that worked. 09:05:06 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:05:10 it went into the debugger. 09:08:29 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:09:10 HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 09:10:55 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 09:14:26 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:14:42 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-141-26-96.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:15:18 -!- lemonodor_ [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-17.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 09:19:03 toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:10 -!- pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 09:19:42 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:24:20 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:24:36 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:26:30 -!- ebzzry_ is now known as ebzzry 09:28:40 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:31:53 What's lisp for "hellp "+$name? 09:32:34 (format nil "Hellp %A" name) 09:32:35 (concatenate 'string "hellp " name) or (format nil "hellp ~a" name) 09:33:42 hm..ok then something else is broken :) 09:34:50 *tic* notices his error. *sigh* 09:35:44 elkawee [n=elkawee@dslb-088-073-203-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:12 hi there 09:36:42 i'm very new to this and liked to ask a question 09:37:08 is it possible to somehow unescape arguments when calling a macro ? 09:37:37 like (let ((x 5)) (my-macro x)) 09:38:08 so that the macro would be expanded whith 5 as a value instead of the name x ? 09:38:13 you want to access runtime variables at compile time? 09:38:17 no way 09:38:28 -!- splittist [n=splittis@46-126.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:38:36 ok 09:40:12 if you want this, then you are doing something wrong with your macro 09:40:19 i would only be calling it from an other macro 09:40:25 chitech [n=khuongdp@82.143.212.234] has joined #lisp 09:40:49 so the forms in the macro that are not escaped are runtime ? 09:42:26 the arguments of macros are just lists and symbols 09:42:41 elkawee: macro is expanded before the code is run 09:42:43 probably - erm it generates a function - and i would like to have a table of functions 09:43:00 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-75-75.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:43:23 elkawee: you are not "calling" macro, you are expanding it 09:43:44 ok 09:44:17 mega1 [n=mega@53d82f7f.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:44:26 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:44:35 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:44:58 mega1: hi! 09:45:56 nostoi [n=nostoi@107.Red-83-54-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:14 nikodemus: hey 09:46:56 holycow [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:59 Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 09:49:20 but in macro expansion time you can do stuff like (defmacro foo (pred ) ( if pred `(my_macro 1 ) `(my_macro 2)) ? 09:49:38 and make foo conditionaly generate code ? 09:50:39 Sure, yes. 09:51:01 But pred is going to be tested at macro-expansion time, and not at runtime. 09:51:30 yup and thats what i'm trying to do 09:51:52 That's not what you indicated before. 09:52:15 ok so that must have been misphrased 09:53:45 so what i would like to do execute a loop at macroexpansion and generate a list of expanded forms 09:54:44 stassats: how do I do it for numbers? coerce? 09:55:13 cYmen_: concatenate? (princ-to-string 10) 09:55:28 Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:55:31 format will do it for you 09:55:40 cYmen_, or just use (format nil ...), ~A will eat anything you throw at it. 09:55:41 nikodemus: I see a lot of stuff coming from you lately. Anything interesting in the queue? 09:56:11 -!- fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has left #lisp 09:56:20 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2EBCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:52 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 10:00:54 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:01:41 louzer [n=user@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #lisp 10:03:38 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0DA9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:48 how does one declare an array of strings? I tried (defvar *powers* (vector "thousand" "million" "billion" "trillion" "quadrillion"))) 10:04:09 -!- essi [n=user@unaffiliated/essi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:04:21 louzer: what's wrong? 10:04:38 I cant (aref *powers* 2) 10:04:43 it gives me error 10:05:10 oops wait 10:05:19 damn.. it was my mistake 10:05:23 then you used defvar on bound variable 10:05:24 sorry about that guys 10:05:29 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-079-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:05:37 oh ok 10:05:59 yeh defvar only works for first time inits 10:06:28 dabd [n=dabd@wifi.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 10:06:44 stassats: I used a vector. how do people make arrays? 10:07:04 stassats: is vector constant time access 10:07:16 vector is array, one dimensional 10:07:20 clhs make-array 10:07:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_ar.htm 10:07:39 hah thanks 10:07:40 louzer: it should have constant time access in most implementations 10:07:49 oh cool 10:07:51 mega1: i'm just pondering what to finish next 10:08:39 You need a committee to decide for you. 10:08:56 haha, maybe 10:09:17 As a member I suggest defining a memory model. 10:09:35 i think next is big-compiler-lock -> world-lock and protecting things like classoids with it 10:09:49 mm. that's on the list, sort of 10:10:21 would that cover a large part of pcl's thread safety issues? 10:10:26 yes 10:10:54 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C04A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:10:54 that would be really cool 10:11:42 why "sort of" on the list? 10:12:04 ksp11 [n=paul@BAA1c49.baa.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 10:14:13 because i need to do a bunch of reading before i feel confident on defining a memory model 10:14:32 s/on/about me/ 10:14:46 I have done some reading. I'll write a quick summary, pointers to sbcl-devel. 10:14:53 hooray! 10:16:28 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:04 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 10:19:19 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:21:48 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 10:22:22 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:23:27 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 10:23:28 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0CA48.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:23:34 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 10:24:18 -!- uva [i=bono@118-160-174-42.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:31:23 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:31:55 phao [n=phao@20158152035.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 10:33:34 world-lock patch on sbcl-devel 10:34:34 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-155-90-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 10:36:22 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:37:18 dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 10:43:03 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 10:48:02 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:48:18 Another boring meeting. *sigh* 10:53:21 Patzy pasted "Error running saved image with cl-opengl using clisp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71395 10:54:03 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:54:51 Any idea of what is the problem with the error I pasted? 10:55:50 I get this when running a saved image, running things from the REPL works fine 10:58:44 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@107.Red-83-54-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 10:58:55 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:00:47 eevar2 [n=jalla@36.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:05:30 :) 11:05:32 omg that eval and quote shit is pretty crazy 11:06:01 banisterfiend: no, you are wrong. It is neither shit nor crazy. 11:06:10 i mean it's awesome 11:06:24 so simple but really powerful 11:06:30 Indeed. 11:09:48 umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:18 patzy: looks like you need to reload the foreign library 11:11:11 -!- elurin [n=user@85.96.232.233] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:11:16 banisterfiend: part of the power of Lisp is the fact that code is represented as standardized syntax trees that simple data structures of the language (lists, mostly). This allows Lisp programs to transform other Lisp programs very easily, which is what macros are about. 11:11:50 aerique: yes, I'm starting to figure that reading about ffi and saveinitmem 11:12:09 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:12:18 aerique: I guess I just have to browse through cl-opengl code see how they do this 11:12:20 hmm very interesting 11:12:24 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:12:27 ah thank you guys i got ^^ 11:12:28 *banisterfiend* still a noob 11:12:57 -!- skarn [n=skarn@dynamic-acs-72-23-130-83.zoominternet.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:13:19 -!- elkawee [n=elkawee@dslb-088-073-203-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:14:27 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:41 patzy: shouldn't be too hard, since you now how to do it on the repl :-) do it in the init-function of saveinitmem before doing anything else 11:15:08 I just asdf-load cl-opengl in the repl 11:15:42 There's probably some call in cl-opengl code that does the linking 11:15:57 on load 11:20:43 ,gentle 11:20:50 ,gently 11:20:53 ,gentle introductino 11:20:56 hmmm 11:21:28 patzy: ah, i see. well then you're own suggestion of browsing the cl-opengl code is indeed a good solution 11:21:37 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:21:37 free_tinker [n=willijar@eas-nw709pc01.aston.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:21:49 you're = your 11:22:21 yes :) this and reading cffi documentation :) 11:22:40 minion: tell banisterfiend about gentle 11:22:40 banisterfiend: look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 11:23:02 thanks 11:23:47 banisterfiend: Minion can help you, but you have to be polite when speaking with Minion. 11:24:00 hehe 11:24:04 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:24:19 i got confused with the #emacs bot i think :) 11:24:37 minion: are you a bot? 11:24:38 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 11:29:24 abhi` [n=user@61.12.19.51] has joined #lisp 11:30:20 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 11:32:50 -!- abhi` [n=user@61.12.19.51] has left #lisp 11:33:47 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-75-75.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 11:35:55 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:38:29 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0DA9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:38:33 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:38:49 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:38:51 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0DA9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:59 I want to use car on a sequence. Is there a special car for a sequence? 11:39:01 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:40:47 (defun kar (sequence) (elt sequence 0)) ; there you go 11:41:14 clhs: elt 11:41:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_elt.htm 11:41:56 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@cad43e-101.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:42:02 hmm i want a cdr for sequences too elt cant give me that :( 11:42:11 i guess i will recode using lists 11:42:14 clhs subseq 11:42:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_subseq.htm 11:42:21 oh! 11:42:23 yeah! 11:42:28 thanks H4ns 11:42:39 silly me 11:42:46 louzer: the clhs has a great table of contents. you could have a look into the "sequences" chapter 11:42:47 jestocost [n=cmell@cad43e-101.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:42:56 ok 11:47:04 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:49:38 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:50:06 ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:25 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:50:38 Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 11:51:30 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:51:48 -!- holycow [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:51:51 -!- hothoofs is now known as holycow 11:52:16 holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:18 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:55:11 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:55:27 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 11:55:29 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:56:07 -!- inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:56:22 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 11:57:29 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@239.pool85-49-167.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:57:49 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@239.pool85-49-167.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 11:59:52 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 12:00:24 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:00:56 HET2 [n=diman@chello080109123012.9.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:03:08 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 12:06:16 -!- louzer [n=user@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:08:30 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 12:09:00 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:10:15 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:10:47 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:11:28 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181132005.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:11:42 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:12:09 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-18-208.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:12:25 How would I clear a list named foo ? 12:13:32 clear means what? make it an empty list, or make all elements NIL? 12:13:40 <``Erik> (setf foo 'nil) ? 12:13:44 jsoft: there are a number of things about your phrasing which suggest you have a slightly off model of how things work, but you might like (setf foo '()) 12:13:46 minion: tell jsoft about pcl-book 12:13:47 jsoft: please see pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 12:14:07 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:14:08 or just (setf foo nil) -- for that matter 12:14:19 or (fill foo nil) 12:14:29 clhs fill 12:14:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fill.htm 12:14:31 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:14:44 didn't know that existed... 12:15:02 <``Erik> now you do, and knowing is half the battle... G I JOOEEEEEEE 12:15:09 <``Erik> sorry, I'll be good O:-) 12:16:09 *nikodemus* orders 15 minutes of random CLHS browsing as penance to both of you! 12:16:40 <``Erik> harsh 12:16:47 elurin [n=user@85.96.232.233] has joined #lisp 12:17:27 <``Erik> is that really the best hyperspec layout? I've been highly tempted on several occasions to copy and rework it to be less... archaic 12:17:35 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:17:40 kpreid: hmm ok 12:18:08 ``Erik: yeah, it's a bit awkward 12:18:16 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:25 <``Erik> I dislike java, but the javadoc stuff was really nice 12:18:57 <``Erik> doxygen fails compared to javadoc :( and hyperspec looks like doxygens retarded cousin or something 12:19:24 <``Erik> maybe I'll attempt a re-envisioning of the hyperspec at work today :) 12:20:15 would it be legal? 12:20:17 how about coming up with a lisp equivalent to javadoc instead :) 12:20:46 <``Erik> it's common to put function documentation as the first expression in the form... lispdoc would be awesome 12:20:52 locklace: that's TINAA 12:21:02 emm 12:21:15 I think hyperspec is the best documentation I have seen 12:21:17 ever 12:21:22 because of examples 12:21:32 of course to use such tools, you need at a *minimum* really good docstrings. and even then some will say that it is a bad principle of organization for documentation 12:21:35 Tinaa is not a good javadoc equivalent IMNSHO. 12:21:43 <``Erik> the content is awesome, the expression is poor 12:21:49 *ignas* can see the parameter types/names from function signature, the whys and hows are important 12:23:43 which is why I don't like the javadoc stuff, IDE gives people the template for the useless stuff, and most of the time programmers just don't add the important things... 12:23:54 so you have a lot of documentation, while very little of actual content 12:24:01 which can be deceiving 12:24:13 if there is no documentation - there should not be any ;) 12:25:00 ignas: Since argument types in Lisp aren't usually declared, hand-written per-argument documentation feels much more important to me in Lisp than it does in Java. At the very least it should state the type. 12:25:49 Also, there's lots of Lisp code out there with good docstrings. And there's are many documentation tools, too. 12:26:12 lichtblau: yes, slime and function lookup ;) 12:26:40 lichtblau: i am not convinced of the usefulness of docstrings and signatures aggregated in some separate file 12:26:50 lichtblau: unless you order them in some meaningful way ;) 12:26:56 and give context 12:27:36 good thing that most of the documentation tools available do exactly that: order them in a meaningful way and give context. 12:28:27 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:31:10 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-24-241.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:32:50 i'll take hand generated documentation (edi style) over http://common-lisp.net/project/tinaa/documentation/tinaa-package/index.html any time... 12:33:22 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:33:57 sure, I think we all agree on that. tinaa is useless and ugly. 12:34:22 and clhs is very usefull and ugly ;) 12:35:09 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-139-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:35:11 *useful 12:35:37 It's so weird getting used to lisp 12:36:05 Lots of bits so far where things slowly go 'click' and then seem obvious 12:36:09 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:36:18 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 12:36:43 jsoft: careful, you can't remove things you put into your head! once they go click, you can't "unclick" them ;) 12:38:04 next you'll find yourself explaining virtues of Multiple Dispatch to your coworkers and friends 12:38:17 Im a bit far off that probably :) 12:38:21 that road lies insanity. 12:39:11 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:39:25 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:39:35 <``Erik> careful, tic, you don't want an army of emacs fanatics at your stoop with torches and pitchforks :D 12:39:44 gdmfsob [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:53 ``Erik, you mean my co-workers? 12:39:56 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-139-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:40:01 cYmen pasted "parameter magic" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71396 12:40:17 Could somebody annotate that with something actually working please? 12:40:26 if only someone would add slime support for emacs... 12:40:31 And something to read about that would be good... 12:40:34 elisp that is 12:40:42 cYmen_, you need to tell us what you want. 12:40:48 clhs apply 12:40:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 12:40:51 clhs funcall 12:40:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_funcal.htm 12:40:54 cYme ^ 12:40:54 tic: I want to set parameters for a function and then call it with those... 12:41:24 Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:41:30 *cYmen_* reads. 12:41:56 cYmen_, for future notice, it's easier to help you if you tell us in a comment to the code what you want to get achieve ("expected output") for your given input. 12:42:15 tic: Yeah, sorry 'bout that. 12:43:29 minion: tell me about date parsing 12:43:30 jsoft: watch out, you'll make krystof angry 12:43:34 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:43:45 minion: tell jsoft about date parsing 12:43:46 jsoft: does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 12:43:50 minion: localtime? 12:43:50 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``localtime''. 12:43:58 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:44:00 minion: date parsing? 12:44:00 Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 30 seconds is too many. 12:44:06 minion: local-time 12:44:06 local-time: local-time is a development library for manipulating date and time information in a semi-standard manner. http://www.cliki.net/local-time 12:45:51 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:47:04 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 12:49:23 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 12:50:39 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:52:04 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:57:16 beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-40-137.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:58:38 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:02:43 ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.143.39] has joined #lisp 13:02:59 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:06:42 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:07:00 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:08:12 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:08:22 VityokOr` [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 13:08:28 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:09:54 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 13:13:27 So ive got local-time. 13:13:38 Should I put it's little files with my project? 13:13:47 besiria [n=user@ppp083212084246.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #lisp 13:13:49 Or try and install it globally? 13:13:54 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 13:13:59 Im not quite getting the install instructions. 13:14:28 it's an ordinary asdf system 13:15:23 hmm 13:15:29 *jsoft* reads about asdf 13:15:56 jsoft: make your project into an asdf project, add local-time as a dependency and asdf-install local-time 13:16:02 at least that's how I do it 13:17:16 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-18-208.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:18:59 well, ok, not asdf-installing dependencies anymore since I am using clbuild 13:24:00 -!- ksp11 [n=paul@BAA1c49.baa.pppool.de] has quit [] 13:25:24 Gota lot to learn :/ 13:25:30 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:31 Just about the environment alone 13:27:33 -!- VityokOr` [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit ["relogin"] 13:28:48 jajcloz [n=jaj@209.6.216.149] has joined #lisp 13:30:24 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@93-138-124-26.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:30:39 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.143.39] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:30:42 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska182223.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:30:48 persi [n=user@adsl-4-105-233.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:55 -!- persi [n=user@adsl-4-105-233.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:31:33 Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:32:05 persi [n=user@ec2-72-44-44-74.z-2.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:26 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 13:34:16 Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-105-4-193.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:38:34 -!- elurin [n=user@85.96.232.233] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:38:47 topo [n=topo@53.pool85-58-128.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 13:39:45 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.10] has joined #lisp 13:39:53 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.10] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:40:07 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:40:17 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:25 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-181-9-239.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:28 durka [n=durka@130.58.196.238] has joined #lisp 13:47:26 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181132005.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:50:15 toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:21 bpalmer` [n=user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has joined #lisp 13:51:10 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2309.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:51:30 elurin [n=user@85.96.232.233] has joined #lisp 13:52:06 in general, when a C lib takes strings as null terminated wchar_t arrays where wchar_t is 4 bytes, does anyone know which encoding it wants the string data given to it in? 13:52:37 UTF-8 is rather common. Isn't that dependent on the library? 13:53:38 I'm not sure 13:54:05 can't you check the app's documentation? 13:54:17 what I've read seems to indicate that on Windows it is usually UTF-16/UCS-2, and on unixy things it is UTF-32/UCS-4 13:54:24 it's quite unclear on it 13:54:42 Oh, those guys. Heh. 13:54:43 I'm using a C wrapper around a C++ lib from CFFI 13:54:59 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:55:04 Lucky you. Doesn't v-something-and-z do C++ directly? 13:55:22 however, there are a few varieties of UTF-32, unfortunately :) 13:55:26 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:01 tic: UTF-8? No, anyone storing UTF-8 in a wchar_t will be fed to matimago for punishment and reeducation. 13:56:25 currently, all seems well on MacOS: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_H0m-YylXpxc/STTJq8hmKaI/AAAAAAAAAlA/7agzsZu_SYU/s400/Picture+38.png 13:56:36 but something strange happens on linux: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_H0m-YylXpxc/STSytkve_aI/AAAAAAAAAk4/ue3cSFpLpCU/s400/Screenshot-Hello+from+SBCL%21.png 13:56:37 -!- knobo [n=bohmersp@148.122.202.168] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:56:57 rsynnott: other than byte-order, and the bits of UTF-32 that don't fit in UCS-4, what's different? 13:57:24 just the byte order, and presence or absence of a byte order marker, I suppose 13:57:26 lichtblau, you're right. no feeding to matimago. I was thinking of the fact that UTF-8 characters are sometimes wider than one byte, but you still encode them in bytes. 13:58:03 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-181-175-208.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:58:05 yeah, the BOM seemed annoying when I first ran into it, but it's sort of elegant, in its way. 13:58:14 -!- beach`` is now known as beach 14:00:17 it's entirely possible that it's just the GUI lib breaking in some way, of course :) 14:00:54 -!- esden [n=esden@91-67-156-166-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 14:02:54 Riastrad1 [n=rias@pool-151-203-198-69.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:03 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-198-69.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:08:53 jsoft: Check this out: http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 14:10:56 rsynnott: what library is that? 14:11:15 wxWidgets 14:11:20 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 14:13:10 rsynnott: it looks like the library doesn't know it gets unicode data 14:13:33 rsynnott: how are you creating wxString objects? 14:18:11 dthomp [n=dat@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:20 -!- durka [n=durka@130.58.196.238] has quit [] 14:18:57 rsynnott: as for wchar_t, there should be some documentation about translation from UTF-8 to wchar_t and back 14:19:06 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19:12 ths_ [n=ths@X6277.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:31 wxc, the C library which I stole from wxHaskell does that 14:20:35 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-17.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:50 it creates them from a wchar_t*, allegedly correctly 14:21:17 current versions of wxWidgets are supposed to operate either always in unicode or never 14:21:43 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:59 p_l: I'm using CFFI's foreign encoding stuff to convert whatever sbcl's internal representation is to UTF-32 (with BOM) 14:22:14 which works on MacOS, but not Linux, for some reason 14:23:40 rsynnott: then it's no wonder 14:23:59 (also not Windows, but that's because I just installed sbcl from that cusp thing, and it only has an old version of cffi) 14:24:07 p_l: ? 14:24:15 -!- phao [n=phao@20158152035.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:24:22 rsynnott: I'm not sure, but including BOM on Linux was a proven way to fail 14:24:25 ah 14:24:31 hadn't realised that 14:24:42 will try it as plain little-endian when I'm home 14:24:50 Also I think wchar_t in GNU libc was 16-bit wide 14:25:11 though oddly it seems to be able to get the ascii chars okay 14:25:13 vy: thanks :) 14:25:22 p_l: nope, I checked that; it's 32bit 14:25:33 -!- ths_ is now known as ths 14:26:27 Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 14:28:10 rsynnott: GNU libc uses UCS-4, probably in host byte order 14:29:26 ecraven` [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 14:29:55 So if you send it UTF-32 with BOM, the library had to barf 14:30:31 the funny thing is the output is fine except for the non-ascii bit 14:31:06 it broke PROPERLY on MacOS when I gave it the wrong encoding :) 14:32:24 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181132005.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:32:25 rsynnott: Because for some part UTF-32 and ISO10646 UCS-4 are the same, especially around ASCII 14:33:26 also, unless you have a prepared unicode normalisation code, avoid hardcoded unicode pathnames ^^; 14:34:07 ah, okay, then :) 14:34:22 *rsynnott* hates character encodings 14:34:22 (NT, OS X and GNU libc all encode Unicode strings differently... even when using UTF-8) 14:34:38 at least for webapps it's all just UTF-8 14:34:42 p_l: what, really? 14:34:43 how? 14:34:48 (for utf-8) 14:35:44 rsynnott: yeah. You see, you can represent the character 'acute' (can't type UTF-8 into this terminal, sorry), libc and NT afaik would use 'acute' charcode, OS X would use 'a' + 'cute' (yes, two codes) 14:35:55 oh, yes, that 14:36:16 the result is correct in display, but might not be semantically correct 14:36:18 though they should each be able to read each others' UTF-8, correct? 14:36:42 rsynnott: Yes, but problems start when the data has to be used in OS interaction 14:36:55 vaguely on the subject, is there any sane way to get asdf working on windows? 14:37:04 I want to be able to test this lib there properly as well 14:37:34 rsynnott: Use NTFS links + add code to recognize those? 14:37:41 -!- bpalmer` [n=user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has left #lisp 14:38:17 *rsynnott* wants to spend as little time as possible reading MSDN to do this, ideally :) 14:39:48 rsynnott: I heard that it works at least on some systems. You could probably conjure up something with asdf-binary-locations or maybe add code to asdf to recognize, let's say, .asdf-link files, which would contain only a pathname to location of the system 14:40:46 I know there were some howtos about how to get it working for example on Corman 14:41:39 rsynott: Edi has some fixes on his site to get adsf working on windows 14:42:15 rsynnott: basically it comes down to adding the locations of all your adsf files to the central repository 14:42:33 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:42:54 there's also a lichtblau patch for getting asdf to understand windows shortcuts 14:43:14 ah, I'll take a look at that 14:43:17 thanks :) 14:46:21 phao [n=phao@20158152035.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:46:50 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:47:25 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c1d.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 14:48:12 qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 14:48:19 weirdo [i=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:49:33 -!- Neburg [n=ruben@ip565039cb.direct-adsl.nl] has left #lisp 14:49:53 rsynnott: I'm looking for it now but can't actually find it :-| 14:51:21 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:51:28 Ah, it was not on his site. Via cliki: http://bc.tech.coop/blog/041113.html 14:53:32 carbocalm [n=chatzill@76-10-183-13.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:56 cool, thanks 14:56:44 good morning. can anybody help me creating a macro that generates a function ? I'd like to pass a symbol to macro (e.g. foo) and the macro should generate (defun print-foo() ....) . i don't know how to generate the `print-foo` part .... :( 14:57:54 (defmacro defprint (name) `(defun ,(intern (format nil "PRINT-~A" name)) ...)) 14:58:08 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-17.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 14:58:18 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:58:26 carbocalm, it is normally custom to have a space in between the function name and the argument-list 14:58:35 (defmacro my-macro(name) (let ((fun-name (concatenate 'string "print-" (symbol-name name))) `(defun ,(intern fun-name) ..)) 14:58:39 oops 14:59:23 sorry, "PRINT-" :) 14:59:24 and, if you do that often, (defun fintern (message args &key (package *package*)) (let ((*package* package)) (intern (apply #'format nil message (if (consp args) args (list args)))) 14:59:39 well, that's pretty wrong. 15:00:26 i should just cut 'n paste intsead of retyping from memory. 15:00:39 (also, you might want to intern the function name where-ever the input symbol came from, so (intern fun-name (symbol-package name)) or something 15:00:42 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:02:49 esden [n=esden@lapradig77.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 15:04:25 thank you ! you are great! 15:04:38 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:52 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:05:00 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@cad43e-101.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:05:19 jestocost [n=cmell@d288be-025.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:05:45 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 15:06:30 -!- qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:06:39 alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:08:21 disumu [n=disumu@p57A24407.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:43 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.123] has joined #lisp 15:08:59 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:10:08 ebil [n=ebil@ip70-174-136-104.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:19 ebil pasted "trying to make a function that generates functions" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71402 15:12:43 I'm having trouble with something that should be simple. I'm trying to create functions with memory that can be called later with funcall 15:14:07 ebil: nope, no error here 15:15:56 ebil: the exact code you past does not throw any error... 15:16:03 ignas, hmm, when I use that funcall, I get this error: FUNCALL: #1=(LET ((NUM 0)) (LAMBDA (X) (SETQ NUM #))) is not a function name; try using a symbol instead 15:16:21 what's the actual code ? 15:16:54 ebil: then the code you posted is different, it seems you added a ' before let 15:16:58 ebil: Do not introduce bindings by directly assigning to them 15:16:58 in the code you are testing 15:17:17 ebil: Use (defparameter *foo* (maketemp)) instead 15:17:39 Also mark special variables by asterisks 15:17:40 oh oops. the difference is in the pasted version, there's no ' in front of the let 15:17:46 -!- chitech [n=khuongdp@82.143.212.234] has quit [Client Quit] 15:18:00 ebil: if you remove the ' - the code works 15:18:04 I'm trying to make a function that has memory (so, it has a let around it) unless there's a better way... 15:18:25 because in lisppaste example - you are returning a function, in the example you are actually testing - a list of symbols 15:18:27 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 15:18:57 a function with memory is called closure 15:19:46 metasyntax [n=taylor@75.149.208.122] has joined #lisp 15:19:54 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:21:27 ignas, ok is there any way to funcall a closure? 15:21:57 well 15:22:04 should I repeat myself 15:22:10 the code you pasted in lisppaste works 15:22:21 it's the right way to do it 15:22:24 ok 15:22:44 and it works the way you want it to work 15:23:03 *boggles* yes... it does... 15:23:05 it returns a closure over X and you can funcall it 15:23:27 ok... 15:24:04 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:24:14 now for another question... why does that work?? I don't see the 'let' stored in the returned variable anywhere? (a simple answer would suffice, I'm just trying to understand) 15:24:53 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@36.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:24:53 (and I appreciate the help) 15:25:28 ebil: you are returning the last "expression" so the let returns the lambda 15:25:28 ebil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_(computer_science) 15:25:41 and lambda is referencing the X that was created by let 15:25:44 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 15:26:04 eevar2 [n=jalla@36.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:25 you are evaluating the let, which makes it evaluate the lambda, and evaluating lambda returns a closure, let returns the closure and then the function (maketmp) returns it, and then you store it in your variable 15:27:30 ignas, Ahhh, ok. cool. that does make sense. lisp only shows the lambda, but what's actually referenced is the entire 'state' of the function 15:27:44 not the state 15:27:49 a function is an object 15:27:56 and objects can have references to other objects 15:28:05 so in this case - the closure is referencing X 15:28:11 ok 15:28:20 as there are no other references to the same X 15:28:31 you can think of it as the closure owning that variable 15:28:49 futuresoon [n=Xeones@cpe-68-175-79-193.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:58 though - you can return 5 lambdas all of them sharing the same X that was "created" in your let 15:29:01 Tordek [n=tordek@192-1-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 15:30:09 as for your last statement, I'd be interested in how to do that (I assume I enclose the defun in a let) but I'm actually wanting the first functionality 15:30:45 minion: tell ebil about pcl-book 15:30:46 ebil: please look at pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 15:30:49 what is the "first" functionality ? 15:31:04 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:10 morning 15:31:54 minion, I have been using the ANSI lisp book by peter grahm (sp?) 15:31:55 i like lisp... i'm written in it 15:31:57 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:32:01 chitech [n=khuongdp@82.143.212.234] has joined #lisp 15:32:17 wow. nm. that was for nikodemus instead 15:32:45 ebil: in that case - you should use more of it ;) 15:33:35 don't encourage the demon machine 15:34:10 -!- chitech [n=khuongdp@82.143.212.234] has quit [Client Quit] 15:34:42 bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.36] has joined #lisp 15:35:34 ignas heh, unfortunately in college, they never tought us any of the real lisp stuff (nothing you couldn't just as easily have done in any other language) 15:35:40 shmho [n=user@58.142.35.171] has joined #lisp 15:36:02 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:25 ebil: I don't have a BS degree, so - you won't get any empathy from me 15:37:38 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 15:37:44 sbcl can now be run anywhere! : http://codu.org/projects/jsmips/ 15:38:00 (it is a MIPS simulator in Javascript. Bizarre) 15:38:11 ignas, I'm not looking for empathy :) I'd rather learn what I'm missing than have someone feel sorry that I don't know it LOL 15:38:24 lol 15:38:35 ebil: practical common lisp is more in-depth, and probably easier to learn from. take a look at the onlive version 15:38:35 ebil: relying on what you learned in college all your life is, erm, unwise 15:39:18 ebil: my remark was directed at your usage of "i did not learn it in college" as some kind of excuse for not knowing something ;) 15:40:28 heh. true 15:42:54 YveDeLarc [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has joined #lisp 15:43:50 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska182223.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:47:39 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.123] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:49:54 my college didn't even have a math/science/engineering/computing faculty. tiny liberal arts joint with more "deconstructing" than "destructuring" :-P 15:50:35 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska182223.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:53:03 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:56:01 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@36.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:57:30 AAARGH 15:57:42 -!- kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:57:57 my hosting company has lost almost 9 month random-state.net backups 15:57:58 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 15:58:47 nvteighen [n=nvteighe@230.Red-79-153-64.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:51 and that's why you don't depend on hosting companies for backups 15:59:31 they took the server down for a while, and when it came back up has rewound to 2nd of March 2008. all backups taken in the interim also have the same state from that data 15:59:36 fuck, fuck, fuck 15:59:37 rsynnott: yeah, "I just lost almost 9 months of backups" sounds way better ;) 16:00:08 ah, they also lost the current data 16:00:13 now, that's a problem 16:00:14 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.123] has joined #lisp 16:00:42 nikodemus: was it just blog entries? 16:00:42 yes 16:00:54 and some software 16:00:57 if so you can get them back through google reader or archive.org, with some pain 16:01:05 do you have copies of the software elsewhere? 16:01:19 happily i have a google domain for email, so that's not lost 16:01:20 who are these advanced professionals? 16:01:24 *rsynnott* wonders at this point is common-lisp.net backed up anywhere 16:01:27 tenue.fi 16:02:09 and i *think* i have copies for most of the stuff that was there locally 16:02:20 but it's hard to be sure 16:02:23 HATE 16:02:44 *nikodemus* goes make some tea and takes deep breath 16:03:11 *mega1* keeps his entire site in git, with at least on two box having clones 16:03:51 -!- nvteighen [n=nvteighe@230.Red-79-153-64.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 16:04:13 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@192-1-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:04:34 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-194-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:01 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:23 froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 16:07:51 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A24407.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:08:01 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:09:34 google cache seems to be relatively up to date http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:http://random-state.net/ 16:11:54 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:55 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:11:56 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 16:12:21 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:15:43 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:16:20 morning 16:17:07 hi slyrus_ 16:18:49 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:19:14 -!- ecraven` [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit [Client Quit] 16:21:07 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E01E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:31 -!- dthomp [n=dat@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:21:55 Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:21:57 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:34 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:25:33 *luis* <3 dropbox 16:26:41 gefla [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has joined #lisp 16:26:41 -!- YveDeLarc [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:28:34 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-139-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:29:15 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:31:53 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:32:59 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-128-24.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:46 -!- ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-128-24.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34:05 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-194-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:34:24 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-17.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:08 Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:36:32 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181132005.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:38:15 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181132005.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:39:12 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 16:40:18 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-194-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:36 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:41:11 -!- besiria [n=user@ppp083212084246.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:45:19 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:12 -!- gefla [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has quit [] 16:51:32 gefla [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has joined #lisp 16:52:45 -!- gefla [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:52:59 gefla [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has joined #lisp 16:54:09 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 16:55:02 -!- bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.36] has quit [Client Quit] 16:55:59 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:07 jamesbeebop [n=jcb1710@158.sub-70-211-37.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:53 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-103-196.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:59:06 -!- jamesbeebop [n=jcb1710@158.sub-70-211-37.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 17:00:57 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-194-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:01:06 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-194-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:15 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-194-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:03:04 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:07:17 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:08:20 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:10:37 -!- futuresoon [n=Xeones@cpe-68-175-79-193.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:12:29 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:15:57 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-30-95.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 17:17:56 the problem with maintaining software written by idiots is that you have to *think* like an idiot, an expensive context switch, imo. 17:18:21 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-40-137.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:18:27 milanj [n=milan@212.200.223.252] has joined #lisp 17:19:55 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:20:32 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:21:04 vasa [n=vasa@mm-155-90-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 17:21:47 fusss: expensiveness presumably depends on how much of an idiot you are to start with :) 17:21:47 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:22:01 haha 17:22:27 fusss: it's particularly bad when _you're_ the idiot who wrote the software you have to go back and maintain years later. 17:23:46 by you I mean me, of course... 17:23:51 willb [n=wibenton@wireless34.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 17:24:34 i don't maintain my own code, you insensitive clod (plus "years" ago i was doing C++ COM frameworks; now i fix php login forms, *sigh*) 17:27:26 oh, joy. 17:29:17 progress! 17:29:28 hooray! 17:29:35 in what direction exactly is unclear, but progress nonetheless 17:29:47 -!- gefla [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has quit [] 17:30:46 gefla [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has joined #lisp 17:33:11 -!- gefla [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:33:48 gefla [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has joined #lisp 17:36:17 COM wrapping was good, while it lasted. it's a glorified FFI groveling, and wrapping that up in a package with a clean export list, so people who never bothered to read Petzold can click on "objects" and "instantiate messages" LOL 17:36:50 and it allowed lovely old dcom 17:36:56 (that thing that never ever worked properly) 17:37:11 except for viruses, where it was oddly reliable 17:38:51 pervonisse [n=yakov@79.136.60.147] has joined #lisp 17:39:19 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:26 I might have missed something but I can't seem to find any articles about coding standards in lisp 17:39:49 such as "use this tabwidth" or "use newline when bla bla" 17:39:50 there's one knocking about somewhere 17:40:07 pervonisse: ah, Emacs/SLIME will force that upon you, more or less 17:40:10 pervonisse, it's called emacs 17:40:14 pervonisse: most people use emacs and rely on the formatting that it provides. 17:40:15 pervonisse: the standard is `whatever emacs does' 17:40:20 pervonisse: conventions rather 17:40:31 ah conventions that is right 17:40:37 well I'm using emacs-allegro-cl 17:40:49 crod [n=cmell@cad4e7-202.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:40:57 but I'd like to have it written down in words somewhere :) 17:40:58 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:41:06 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@d288be-025.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41:10 I don't like relying on software to do that kind of stuff or me 17:41:12 for* 17:41:17 you could read the mode code :) 17:41:49 pervonisse: once you've seen some lisp code, you get used to it 17:41:59 pervonisse: http://www.norvig.com/luv-slides.ps 17:42:18 cheers 17:42:24 pervonisse: if you don't rely on emacs' formatting the code for you, you'll have other lispers complain that your code is not formatted correctly. 17:42:43 to be honest, emacs just handles one aspect 17:42:47 and they'll be right :) 17:43:02 I'm looking for a one-sentence summary of what SERVE-EVENT is. Could you agree with "a select()-based polling framework to asynchronously invoke callbacks when the polled FD becomes available" 17:43:05 (emacs sadly will not prevent evil people from doing 17:43:10 (defun my-fun () 17:43:13 some stuff 17:43:14 ) 17:43:38 *dcrawford* *shivers* 17:43:44 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:54 -!- hefner [n=hefner@c-68-50-101-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:43:58 or (defun foo() ( bar )) 17:44:02 ewh 17:44:07 I never even thought of that one 17:44:11 why would anyone do that? 17:44:21 though it'd make completion behave strangely, no? 17:44:32 oh, apparently not 17:44:39 it'd look butt ugly, so much is sure 17:44:41 I have no idea of why anyone would do either of the bad things I did there, but they do 17:45:01 rsynnott: Arglist display depends on (foo ..) 17:45:05 rsynnott: i've seen python code formatted similarily... 17:45:05 jsnell: some people consider bad formatting to be part of "their style" 17:45:16 jsnell: the first could be C influence 17:45:20 I'm an individual! 17:45:25 def foo( bar ) TAB : 17:45:27 presumably by analogy to: void foo() { dosomething(); } 17:45:42 Got anyone a comment about my SERVE-EVENT summary? 17:45:48 which is a perfectly reasonable C style 17:46:03 people do truly frightening things with erlang, tab-wise, of course 17:46:37 i put the closing parens on a line of their own when i'm not sure if i'm gonna add more slots to a class, or more clauses to a cond 17:47:03 beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-8.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:47:09 tcr: where? 17:47:49 jsnell: 5minutes ago 17:48:02 josemanuel [n=josemanu@170.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:48:37 oops, missed that. a major point about serve-event is that it's a recursive event loop 17:49:12 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:49:18 tcr: not just file descriptors. IIRC, serve-event worked with some kind of object collections? 17:49:33 so callbacks aren't just triggered directly from one main loop 17:49:33 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:49:42 i'd go with "a pain in the ass", personally. :) 17:51:19 not sure how to distill that into a short and understandable summary, though :-( 17:51:33 recursive event loop invoked implicitly all over the place = pain. 17:51:37 I need it to explain slime's :fd-handler communication style 17:51:44 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:45 -!- gefla [n=gefla@193.142.125.1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:51:54 Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:53:10 i don't think serve-event makes sense outside of unix FDs and CLX stuff. it's not exactly a pure reactive model either (could you fire an event if, for example, a variable reaches zero?) 17:53:17 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:53:29 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 17:54:11 tcr: what's the audience for the explanation? 17:54:24 jsnell: Munich Lisp Group 17:54:49 ok, not documentation or anything like that, then. that seems like a reasonable enough description, then 17:54:54 tcr: i'll be there 17:55:16 -!- te [i=tao@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-199971964d731738] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:19 ecraven` [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 17:55:20 so ranging from people like jim newton and tfb, to newcomers as well, I guess 17:55:52 tcr: get tfb to explain it :) 17:56:17 I'll redirect that request 17:57:52 serve-event object collection doesn't exist in sbcl anymore 17:57:56 What's recursive in recursive event loop? That you can call serve-event inside a handler? 17:58:21 that when your handler does IO you may end up entering another handler 18:00:12 te [n=deph@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-507c598d16e01006] has joined #lisp 18:00:22 handlers are only invoked when serve-event is called, or a read operation blocks, aren't they? 18:00:23 oh wow, my PPC has 0.9.18 installed 18:00:39 or write blocks 18:00:40 s/read/IO/ 18:00:47 yes 18:01:29 i like foom's summary :) 18:02:25 cmucl added threads? woah 18:03:58 cmucl always had threads. or do you mean platform-native threads? 18:04:11 Hun: I'm looking forward to see you there! Make sure you got Andreas' phone number with you, just in case you get lost. 18:04:19 yep 18:04:33 i looked up directions right now... do you know if there's parking space nearby? 18:04:35 foom: yeah, native threads 18:05:07 Hun: I wouldn't really recommend going into munich city by car 18:05:46 that's about the only way i can come there in time. i already skip half a lecture. 18:06:07 -!- heatseeker [i=dboswell@166-70-103-139.ip.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:06:09 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-103-196.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:06:23 i lived in schwabing for 6 months, so that shouldn't be a problem. i can also park there and use the sub for the rest of the way 18:08:14 dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 18:08:16 Hun: I'm not acquainted with the area in question, and I'll have to find my way myself tomorrow. If you got a navigation system, it shouldn't be so troublesome through 18:08:24 s/through/though/ 18:08:52 i have 1 or 2 people coming with me. i think it should work out fine. might be a bit late though 18:08:54 fusss: cmucl added native threads? woah :) 18:08:58 (did it?) 18:10:07 rsynnott: just saw "threads" in the manual and it said it was for x86 only. so i'm guessing native threads. 18:10:14 ah 18:10:17 nope, they're not 18:10:34 just the "old" mp that is always had? 18:11:38 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:12:24 think so, yep 18:12:33 which is really fine for many purposes 18:12:46 though I'm not sure why anyone would want to use cmucl these days anyway 18:13:16 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 18:13:23 emacs doesn't enforce function parameters to be on different lines 18:13:26 at least not for me 18:13:50 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 18:14:46 why should it? 18:14:46 because cmucl has quad-float support? 18:15:08 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-69-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 18:15:37 -!- esden [n=esden@lapradig77.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 18:16:29 Hun I thought that was a coding standard 18:16:33 convention even 18:16:41 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:51 usually it's (defun foo (bar) 18:16:53 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:16:58 (do-something bar)) 18:17:00 yea but when I call it 18:17:05 and it has several parameters 18:17:09 that depends 18:17:17 on what is good to grasp in the context 18:17:24 jrockway_ [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 18:17:27 ah that is true 18:17:50 you sometimes have math-like operations where having 5 in a line is useful 18:17:52 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 18:18:06 and sometimes you have 2-ary functions where each argument deserves its own line 18:18:27 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:18:47 mkay 18:18:56 rsynnott: cmucl has a nice "integrated" feel to it. you can spend years, i know i did. 18:18:59 sometimes it's purely a case of what will fit on your screen, of course 18:19:15 pervonisse, see Syntax and Semantics in PCL: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/syntax-and-semantics.html 18:20:23 cheers tic 18:20:35 pervonisse, vassigo. 18:20:37 what does sbcl wnat to tell me by "required argument is not a symbol: 3" 18:20:56 because 3 is not a symbol? 18:20:56 HET2, it expects a symbol and you passed the literal 3? *guessing* 18:21:02 that 3 is not a symbol in a place where it expected one 18:21:09 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 18:21:33 tic: strange - the literal "3" does not appear in my code 18:21:49 HET2, http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp of your code, perhaps? 18:22:32 HET2 pasted "stupid snippet" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71424 18:23:12 first, don't use open and close, use with-open-file 18:23:38 salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has joined #lisp 18:23:43 hey salex. 18:23:48 hey tic 18:23:55 how goes? 18:24:07 salex, reading the McCLIM manual. you? 18:24:22 buried in work :( 18:24:27 Ouch. 18:24:30 (I should read that thing, one of these days!) 18:24:44 the simplicity of CLIM appeals to me. 18:24:47 all work an no lisping makes me a grumpy researcher :) 18:24:56 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:58 salex, what is that you are researching? 18:26:15 lots of projects, but primarily (math) applications to medical imaging and related 18:26:33 Expensive systems, those medical imaging ones. 18:26:45 indeed, some of them 18:27:07 it's also grant writing/grant reporting system, and job search season 18:27:15 so i'm running around like crazy 18:27:46 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d82f7f.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:28:35 durka [n=durka@130.58.196.238] has joined #lisp 18:29:04 stassats, second? 18:29:07 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:26 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:30:58 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:32:44 tic: i meant, it's not the answer to the original question 18:34:27 and i don't see any problem with that snippet 18:34:30 stassats, alright. was curious if you had something else to share. 18:34:38 HET2: how are you calling it? 18:34:55 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 18:35:01 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35:34 and are you sure that this is the code which fails? is it on the backtrace? 18:37:00 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E01E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:39:15 -!- gaja [n=Gabriel@c-3481e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:41:44 borism [n=boris@195-50-200-69-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 18:42:38 stassats: i believe what was happening is that my slime was confused from some code i had written previously 18:47:09 -!- dabd [n=dabd@wifi.ist.utl.pt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:50:20 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 18:51:32 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:52:45 Tarlok [n=user@0-16-d4-5c-87-f3.sm.esol.dur.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:56:07 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:56 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:59:24 -!- _deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit ["ircII EPIC4-2.8 -- Are we there yet?"] 18:59:27 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 19:00:24 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:27 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs181132005.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:01:49 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181132005.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:02:07 eno [n=eno@adsl-70-137-165-68.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:51 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:51 -!- beach`` is now known as beach 19:13:06 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has joined #lisp 19:14:47 mtrimpe [n=mtrimpe@d107110.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:17:09 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@student166-32.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 19:17:18 inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-13d7d4ebe8a1ba3d] has joined #lisp 19:19:55 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:20:10 -!- ecraven` is now known as ecraven 19:20:16 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-43-112.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:20:28 clhs ~P 19:20:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_chc.htm 19:21:27 decaf [n=deadc0ff@c-f4e3e055.31-4-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:21:30 so I got the closures working just fine... how do I clear them without restarting lisp? 19:22:01 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-128-145.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:23:18 nm, if I reload the file it works... 19:25:29 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs181132005.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:29:39 seelenquell__ [n=seelenqu@pD9E45BA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:52 -!- Tarlok [n=user@0-16-d4-5c-87-f3.sm.esol.dur.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:30:31 any ex - www.ircbrowse.com users around? 19:30:50 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:31:22 (the topic cliki.net page still refers to it) 19:31:43 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:18 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:38:21 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-8.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:47 -!- bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:42:23 Tordek [n=tordek@192-1-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 19:43:45 -!- seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E466C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:44:25 does CLSQL's symbolic syntax actually work for anyone here? 19:45:48 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:45:54 koning_r1bot: yes, i used it for years. 19:45:58 koning_r1bot: the one described as 'functional syntax' in the manual? 19:46:01 that works fine 19:46:22 i mean the stuff with the square brackets 19:47:17 (one minor caveat being that if you are using mysql on a case sensitive file system, and you have a pre-existing table with lower-case names, then you'll have to be careful of table name symbols) 19:47:22 koning_r1bot: yep, that's the one 19:47:27 what problems are you having? 19:47:41 well, i'm actually not sure if it's working, because i get undefined variable errors when i test it manually, but i get nothing when i use it in my program 19:47:46 i personally think taht reader macros for sql syntax is wrong wrong wrong. 19:48:02 rsynnott: I'd be careful about everything when forced to use MySQL... 19:48:18 i got some weird values from a select and i was trying to debug it by doing things manually 19:48:42 at best, you'll need to have them like |mytable| 19:48:52 _my_ sql lib doesn;t even use macros for it's syntax! it's all functions baby :) 19:48:56 its 19:49:04 *drewc* drinks coffee now. 19:49:06 and even then, I've seen it somehow uppercase the table name somewhere along the line 19:49:16 *rsynnott* avoids raw sql these days if at all possible 19:49:25 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 19:49:27 koning_r1bot: what was your query? 19:49:31 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:46 pstickne [n=pstickne@199.237.80.119] has joined #lisp 19:50:04 rsynnott: It's hard to avoid raw sql when you are writing an SQL library :) 19:50:11 rotty: You should feel free to modify cliki.... 19:50:28 rsynnott: (select [user] :from [users] :where [and [= [email] email] [= [passwd] passwd]]) 19:51:10 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:54 it says [user] is undefined when i test it manually (after enable-sql-reader-syntax) 19:52:20 koning_r1bot: at the repl? 19:52:21 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:25 or in a file that is being compiled? 19:53:07 i don't get any error when i use it in my program, but it returns the value "webstream" which is the unix user that runs the whole thing 19:53:12 at the repl yeah 19:53:25 but "in my program" means in a file that's compiled 19:53:42 -!- dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:53:42 waldofll [n=waldofll@nsc69.38.26-106.newsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:20 rpg: I was actually just waiting for an opportunity to plug https://rottyforge.yi.org/irclogs/ -- it's even written in *a* Lisp (source at http://tinyurl.com/67rolz) ;-) 19:54:55 rotty: do i really need ssl to view public logs? :) 19:55:22 rotty: You needn't wait if just writing into Cliki is the next step... 19:55:42 When I need a local variable in a function can I create one with setf or setq? Do I need a let at the beginning? Is there a different lispier way? 19:56:12 cYmen_: no, setf and setq do not ever create variables .. they set variables. 19:56:34 cYmen_: that's never never ... if you are doing it at the toplevel you are doing it wrong as well! 19:56:51 drewc: I didn't try I was just wondering... 19:56:55 cYmen_: when you need a local variable, you want to use let 19:57:03 drewc: this is just scare off the unwashed masses (just joking -- I need to reconfigure my apache, and didn't come around to do it -- this whole thing is running at home, behind a DSL, and I can't give any uptime guarantees, so I thought I 19:57:05 Creating them when I need them with let gets ugly, too. 19:57:14 So I have to create them all at the beginning? 19:57:16 'd not edit the wiki yet) 19:57:25 rotty: are you planning on adding search (which is what i really miss from ircbrowse)? 19:57:39 cYmen_: no, just use a LET around the parts that need the variable 19:57:55 cYmen_: it's a subtle discouragement from using unnecessary variables 19:58:01 cYmen_: if you are creating a lot of variables and assigning them, you are probably doing it wrong as well. 19:58:15 *_3b* mainly missed the links from lisppaste, that probably needs good uptime expectations though 19:58:41 drewc: doing it wrong, how? 19:59:16 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c1d.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 19:59:34 http://lemonodor.com/images/mccarthy-youre-doing-it-wrong-s.jpg somehow like this 19:59:52 hrhr 19:59:54 cYmen_: you should be creating a lot of small functions that return values, rather than assigning values discovered imperatively. 20:00:38 Zoba [i=Zoba@wva4448rn.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:00:51 drewc: definitly, in fact there is a limited search in the channel activity overview pages (/irclogs/freenode/%23lisp/ for example) 20:01:31 Is there an easy way to remove excessive whitespace from a string? For example change "See rover jump" to "See rover jump" 20:02:05 (that search looks only at last 14 days, but I'll changing that to an indefinite search that is interrupted in regular intervals is one of the next items in my list) 20:02:09 rotty: cool! it's nice and fast to search as well... is there a nice indexing system or just very little data? 20:02:16 s/I'll// 20:02:23 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:38 i see, sounds like fun! 20:03:07 drewc: (a) just 14 days (b) just substring matching, but no indexing 20:03:14 (yet) 20:03:24 but that's further down the list 20:03:32 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@192-1-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:03:38 rotty: the main issue with ircbrowse in the end was search became super slow when there was lots of data. 20:03:52 -!- elurin [n=user@85.96.232.233] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:04:35 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-169.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:04:38 the irc logs at tunes.org/~nyef are too raw for people? 20:04:49 drewc: when you searched a big amount of data, or even just because there was too much data in the overall system? 20:04:50 gaja [n=Gabriel@c-3481e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:05:12 oh, search 20:05:25 fusss: nef, not nyef. 20:05:32 <_3b> yeah, google doesn't seem to index the tunes logs properly :( 20:05:33 rotty: just to much overall... even if you cut down the search, it was still slow and resource intensive. 20:05:37 yuck. if when I meant when. trailing #\)'s on empty lines. I hate reading my old code. 20:05:42 rsynnott: USER is a keyword in postgresql, that's why i get the wrong data. so the syntax works, just not on the repl 20:06:13 slyrus_: hell is someone elses code .. but pure hell is your own. 20:06:22 indeed. 20:06:30 <_3b> koning_r1bot: are you in the same package in the repl? maybe it wants a specific user symbol 20:07:16 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:07:28 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-30-95.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has left #lisp 20:07:45 drewc: My current system is very simplistic, but searching will definitly O(N) at worst, where N is the number of messages involved in the search, and not related to the number of channels logged, or messages logged, in overall 20:08:53 rotty: for search, you might look at montezuma. 20:08:55 (and I I haven't done *any* optimization yet at all) 20:08:57 oh wait, it's not CL. 20:08:59 rotty: If you can give me some stats/projections WRT resource usage, i'll likely be able to host this for you on a nice fast box with 10mbps if you let me put the tech.coop logo on it. 20:09:30 _3b: well the problem is on the database end, i should get clsql to quote things whenever possible 20:10:04 koning_r1bot: i'm confused .. isn't the real problem that you are using s reserved word? 20:11:04 you can use reserved words as names if you quote them... 20:11:18 oh of course. 20:11:23 rotty: R6RS? Out, heathen! 20:11:37 clsql doens't quote everything? that's a bit odd. 20:11:39 yeah i realize i'm not being very clear, but the problem is that it's a reserved word to postgresql, not to lisp... SELECT USER in postgresql is special 20:12:09 koning_r1bot: yes, i use postgresql and have run into the issue myself. 20:12:20 perec < clsql 20:12:31 uh. s// 20:12:33 weirdo: anything < clsql 20:12:36 errr 20:12:37 ya 20:12:41 > 20:13:08 it doesn't handle blobs, [] reader hack is awkward and MOP is too messy 20:13:09 koning_r1bot: how attached are you to clsql? 20:13:19 Elephant for perish! 20:13:33 just poking it with a medium-length pole to see if it's alive 20:13:46 drewc: that would be awesome! the system involves an irssi instance inside a screen, and an Ikarus Scheme serving HTTP (on my installation, behind an apache2). As you can imagine, the irssi is very lightweight (nearly no CPU, 10/2 MB VSZ/SZ) and Ikarus weighs currently at 50/13 MB, altough it's not running long yet. I don't really know about CPU usage of Ikarus, yet 20:13:54 chandler: :-P 20:14:11 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c1d.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:14:28 rotty: drop me a line drewc@tech.coop and we'll work something out. 20:14:54 koning_r1bot: use postmodern then! 20:15:18 clsql has a lot of problems, not the least of which is that stupid syntax. 20:16:19 personally, i think SELECT should be a function, and wrote my own wrapper around postmodern, but if macros don't bug you, postmodern is good enough. 20:16:33 drewc: will do, thanks! 20:16:47 select macros are fine if they're good enough 20:17:06 perec has a nice one 20:17:15 -!- beach` is now known as beach 20:17:43 weirdo: nice if you don't want to apply them, sure. 20:18:00 minion, memo for attila_lendvai: i suppose (equal o some-instance) is now OK to use in conjunction with dynamic TYPEP? 20:18:01 Remembered. I'll tell attila_lendvai when he/she/it next speaks. 20:18:10 i looked at perec, as in, read the description.. but it sounds like a thick layer, which is especially what i don't want 20:18:25 but postmodern looks quite good, thanks drewc 20:18:28 yeah, perec does ORM 20:18:43 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:18:43 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:19:00 koning_r1bot: postmodern is what you want, at least until i get around to releasing ROFL to the public :) 20:20:20 elurin [n=user@85.96.232.233] has joined #lisp 20:21:09 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:23 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:22:26 weirdo: i think the real problem with select being a macro is that you still need some way to include lisp data in your form .. so you either do something like have your macro un-quote things you want to be evaluated, or use my approach, which is to quote things i don't want evaluated. Lisp actually has some great facilities for doing the latter :). 20:23:56 jsoftw [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 20:24:43 bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:09 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:09 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:27 Tordek [n=tordek@192-1-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 20:28:22 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:28:22 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 20:29:04 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 20:31:05 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 20:32:54 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 20:36:51 -!- froog_ is now known as froog 20:38:04 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:39:30 pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:39:39 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:39:49 -!- pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:38 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:43:13 Tarlok [n=user@0-16-d4-5c-87-f3.sm.esol.dur.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:49:29 -!- vorian is now known as heHATEme 20:50:55 esden [n=esden@club.muc.ccc.de] has joined #lisp 20:52:50 -!- crod [n=cmell@cad4e7-202.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:56:52 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:57:07 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:00:57 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:44 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:58 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:02:03 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.5.13.215] has joined #lisp 21:02:19 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-169.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 21:02:26 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:35 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-155-90-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 21:06:25 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@199.237.80.119] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:06:34 -!- mbac [i=[TY1IyaH@panix2.panix.com] has quit ["bbl"] 21:06:48 crod [n=cmell@cad4e7-202.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:07:01 -!- heHATEme is now known as vorian 21:09:15 mbac [i=[WI+rNGW@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:45 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 21:11:47 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@209.6.216.149] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:11:53 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:12:57 -!- durka [n=durka@130.58.196.238] has quit [] 21:13:59 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-169.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:15:58 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:57 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:17:09 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:18:30 -!- Cymew [n=user@U2.N59.QueensU.CA] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:21:44 -!- rumbleca [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:23:04 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c1d.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:23:38 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:23:39 rumbleca [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:40 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:28 NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 21:26:33 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-139-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:26:39 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-75-75.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:28:19 -!- carbocalm [n=chatzill@76-10-183-13.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:29:05 Anything fun going on, or is it bedtime already? 21:29:39 I'm awake. 21:29:40 >_> 21:29:44 -!- tns [n=mehdi@put92-6-88-165-36-162.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:29:56 sykopomp, working on anything interesting? 21:30:11 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 21:30:13 tic: I'm parsing HL7 messages, very fun! 21:30:56 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 21:31:10 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:30 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.167.223] has quit ["“I told you, it's nothing wrong with my computer. It's not bad in any way. And what do you mean by hardware?”"] 21:31:42 luis, lucky you! I fondly remember the days when I was writing & parsing HL7 messages by hand. 21:32:33 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 21:32:44 OT: does anyone know of a good FOSS "collaboration" solution? something for a small team of developers with wiki, version control, etc. or is all roll your own? 21:32:52 and by fondly, I mean the sheer horror. :) 21:32:59 fusss, Trac + Subversion/Git? 21:33:08 tic: where did you use it? 21:33:13 tic: not really. Trying to understand how lispbuilder-sdl works. 21:33:26 luis, pharmacy messages. Heard of Melior/Sorian, by Siemens? 21:33:39 No. 21:33:41 sykopomp, the tutorial looked easy enough.. least compared to cl-sdl. 21:33:57 luis, was used to communicate between pharmacy and the hospital, anyway. you? 21:34:04 tic: it's easy, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to design stuff around it. 21:34:41 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:34:55 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:55 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:35:04 sykopomp, *nod* 21:35:16 tic: just a boring assignment. 21:35:40 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:45 tic: but I'm doing it in CL, which makes it slightly less boring. 21:35:52 luis, :) 21:36:49 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:37:35 lacedaemon [n=algidus@88-149-208-97.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:37:54 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-178-21-159.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:32 tic: it seems odd to me that it's not so easy to find design-related stuff when it comes to stuff like graphical applications and games. 21:38:55 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-169.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:38:56 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 21:39:18 or maybe I'm not looking hard enough. All the 'design'-related stuff I've found tends to be fairly low-level, unabstract examples of C++ code that doesn't really tell me much besides how to actually code it up... (in C++) 21:39:38 sykopomp, it depends on the loop, I guess. SDL is a rather low-level framework. 21:39:47 compared to what I've seen from CLIM so far, at least. ;) 21:40:14 -!- eliasm [n=eliasm@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:40:18 eliasm [n=eliasm@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:30 surely, the answer is to allow opengl widgets within CLIM 21:40:35 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 21:40:45 does it already have stuff like sound mixing/networking/cross-platformness? :P 21:41:01 CLIM? 21:41:03 don't think so 21:41:07 gefla [n=gefla@77-57-175-238.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:41:11 except cross-platform-ness 21:41:23 you could steal the sound from SDL 21:41:54 I'm not sure how to pick parts out of sdl, though. 21:42:07 sdl-mixer is a separate library 21:42:25 it looks like it's tied to the sdl game loop, though. 21:42:46 sykopomp: last time I used SDL, it wasn't a problem 21:43:08 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-73.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:18 ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e2b88181048fc5d4] has joined #lisp 21:49:07 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 21:52:01 -!- kreuter [n=kreuter@pool-96-252-14-107.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:53:22 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 21:53:23 matley [n=matley@83.224.161.218] has joined #lisp 21:57:24 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 22:00:24 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@75.149.208.122] has quit ["leaving"] 22:01:30 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 22:03:02 i used SDL *just* to eject the CDROM drive portably hahahaha 22:03:49 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:04:12 fusss: in cl? 22:04:51 nah, C. i haven't written redistributable software in a long time :-P 22:06:09 tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #lisp 22:06:30 correction; to eject the CDROM. SDL doesn't eject cdrom drives on its own, you need SDL_hand 22:06:36 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:17 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:10:23 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:39 -!- umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has quit [] 22:11:29 fusss, _3b: alchemy article: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/02/adobe_alchemy/ 22:11:35 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:11:50 ahaas: sweet :-) 22:12:08 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:12:49 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:23 ahaas: i didn't realize you were responsible for the fruity colors in as3-mode :-D -bg white, man 22:13:38 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:01 -!- cmcq [i=queball@freenet6.org] has quit ["."] 22:14:01 fusss: You are using my old as3-mode? And you use a white bg? 22:14:23 yeah 22:14:29 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:14:39 spent too much time in customize-mode choosing colors 22:15:03 That mode might be old. And I use zenburn now. 22:15:27 I wrote a new mode that doesn't depend on java-mode, but it doesn't do indenting. 22:15:55 wtf? vim? get out! 22:16:09 js2-mode is cool 22:16:40 vim? 22:16:57 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 22:17:09 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.5.13.215] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:17:18 lispm [n=joswig@g224122092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:17:22 first hit for zenburn is a vim mode, or did i miss read? 22:17:47 I think it originated for vim, but I have it for emacs through some color picker package. 22:18:00 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-200-69-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 22:18:29 I need to see if I can pull from that js2-mode, when I have time. 22:18:30 borism [n=boris@195-50-200-69-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 22:18:39 This is a really simple question I can't find the answer to. How do you specify a new line in a lisp string. I can't find like a \n or something 22:18:40 mattrepl- [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:23 Zoba, you put the newline into the string 22:19:34 minion: tell Zoba about cl-interpol 22:19:35 Zoba: have a look at cl-interpol: CL-INTERPOL modifies the reader so that you can have interpolation of strings similar to Perl or Unix Shell scripts. http://www.cliki.net/cl-interpol 22:20:13 So then there is no \n or similar for CL? 22:20:27 format uses special string commands, but otherwise the reader does not have support for it 22:20:42 ok, thanks. 22:20:43 Zoba: an actual newline in the middle of the string works 22:21:14 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:21:21 fe[nl]ix, alright. The code will look weird but so long as it works... Guess there was a reason I wasn't finding anything 22:21:22 -!- mattrepl- [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:21:24 hi there... isn't there any easy way to have a function with a behaviour as 'uniq' ? 22:21:49 what does 'uniq' do? 22:21:49 mattrepl- [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:55 (remove duplicates but only if they are direct neighbourg in a sequence 22:21:57 ) 22:22:12 (the command-line tool) 22:22:13 -!- crod [n=cmell@cad4e7-202.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:22:15 Zoba: but cl-interpol does what you asked, so you might want to try it 22:22:16 this is way waaay too unnecessary, imo 22:22:38 Zoba: the FORMAT function has the ~% newline directive 22:22:40 ah, I think there is no simple UNIQ in CL 22:23:14 fe[nl]ix, fusss thanks both. I'll check cl-interpol out 22:23:14 just yesterday I saw a weblog with several versions a function for it 22:23:27 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-139-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 22:23:28 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:23:29 in fact, my exact problem is I have a list of strings and nil, I want to keep nils but only "one at a time" because I use them to insert blank lines 22:23:32 hefner [n=hefner@c-68-50-101-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:58 -!- dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:24:05 the ~% is almost what I want but not exactly 22:24:27 lemoinem: ~&? 22:24:50 I would be able to have one blank line but not more... ~& output one fresh line (no blank line just a new one) 22:25:00 yeah, I meant ~& not ~% 22:25:39 even with a n argument, there is only only conditional new line, so one more blank line each time 22:26:16 Why do you insist on doing it as one huge format string? You could just loop over the list and would have been done by now. 22:26:45 pkhuong: yeah, I do not insist to do as a huge format 22:27:17 but I don't have any idea about how to do it efficiently 22:27:41 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:27:56 hence my first question "Is there a way to have a simple/efficient function behaving as 'uniq' 22:28:00 " 22:28:00 You're printing text; don't do anything stupid and you'll likely be fine. 22:28:31 lemoinem: you will find versions of uniq written in CL when you google for it 22:29:59 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.35.171] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:31:51 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:32:21 crod [n=cmell@cb8a94-094.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:32:23 for example here are versions http://a-nickels-worth.blogspot.com/2008/03/optimizing-cl.html 22:32:30 though I have seen shorter versions 22:33:22 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-194-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:48 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-73.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:21 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-145-185.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:30 -!- waldofll [n=waldofll@nsc69.38.26-106.newsouth.net] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 22:34:43 lispm: so I did, but the result does not looks like it... there is one but which seems to works very for vectors... but I hope there is better with a list (the naive implementation seems to be better than it in fact since it's using elt) 22:35:28 I just wanted to know if there was somewhere an already well known efficient implementation or if the naive one was the best one can found quickly 22:35:39 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:58 Common Lisp has sequences 22:36:02 lists are sequences 22:36:28 if UNIQ! works on sequences, then it should work on lists, vectors, strings, ... 22:36:56 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:36:56 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:37:00 <_3b> ahaas: yeah, alchemy looks interesting, don't think i'll use it as the main target of my stuff though (i want to run on flash 9 for a while longer if nothing else) 22:37:03 of course, but using elt does not the best way to do it using lists 22:37:15 does not looks like* 22:37:51 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:58 true 22:38:54 lemoinem: (let ((firstp t) prev) (remove-if (lambda (x) (and (not firstp) (eql prev (setf prev x))) sequence)) 22:38:54 ok, so I'll go for the naive implementation using simply car, cdr, append and cie... thx 22:38:55 <_3b> (loop for i on list for j = (gensym) then i when (eq i j) collect i)? 22:38:55 _3b: Oh, ok. I thought the article was interesting for the mention of the features in the player, which Alchemy takes advantage of. 22:39:26 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:50 (but if you are targetting player 9, then it's of no consequence) 22:40:45 <_3b> ahaas: from what i've seen from other sources, the alchemy specific stuff is basically just a set of opcodes for load/store various int/float type values in an untyped byte array 22:40:59 <_3b> and some sign extension stuff 22:41:04 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:41:08 pkhuong: yeah... seems even better... but I would not have think of it immediatly, thanks you 22:41:21 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:39 <_3b> i've also heard of some trick that lets it get around script timeouts, and possibly do some green threading, not sure how much of that is player and how much s library though 22:42:00 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:00 -!- banisterfiend [n=john@203-97-217-154.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:42:44 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:42:55 _3b: The article made it sound like the new stuff can free a compiler writer up a bit, as it gives you ways to work outside of actionscript, but I really don't know much about it. 22:42:56 <_3b> i'm targetting 9 and 10, not just 9 though, so i'm making stuff from 10 available, even if not used by default 22:44:12 <_3b> yeah, there might be some special mode for running alchemy code that would make things easier 22:44:25 <_3b> haven't looked to see what sort of code/swf it generates 22:45:37 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:45:42 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:06 <_3b> at some point i'd like to add a special mode for generating alchemy style code, for number crunching type code, that doesn't need to interact with flash libs as closely, that is far in the future though :) 22:47:04 The article says, "Alchemy opens up a number of intriguing possibilities. One is support for other dynamic languages within Flash, using existing open source interpreter code." 22:47:06 lispm: #\dude how are you? 22:47:12 v annotated #71402 with "re:" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71402#1 22:47:25 Fare: I'm fine, how about you? 22:47:50 forgot french already? 22:48:52 _3b: from what i read in the article, there should be some kind of undocumented flag in alchemy generated swfs that would identify them as "unmanaged" code 22:48:57 fun stuff 22:48:59 lemoinem: also (setf firstp nil) somewhere in there. 22:51:29 ja. Do you know Michael Wessel? 22:51:32 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:43 ja 22:51:47 he can't boot his MacIvory. 22:51:51 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:51:52 I know 22:52:44 <_3b> ahaas: yeah, that just sounds like trying to compile existing C interpreters, which wouldn't be much fun :) 22:53:14 -!- elurin [n=user@85.96.232.233] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:51 -!- gtasso [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-601b2e887e74da86] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:54:07 <_3b> fusss: i expect it is more 'differently managed' than 'unmanaged' though :) 22:54:18 yeah 22:54:27 <_3b> fusss: still worth looking into at some point 22:55:05 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:55:14 i kept saying, give me a big bag of bytes :-) 22:55:17 -!- Adamant_ [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:55:33 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:36 <_3b> (or waiting until the HaXe people or whovere lookinto it and document it :) 22:56:00 <_3b> which is where i got the new alchemy opcodes 22:56:22 Nicolas? he is basically reading the Tamarin sources, i think 22:56:31 <_3b> haven't looked at their code to see how they actually work though 22:56:37 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless34.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:56:43 <_3b> yeah, that name sounds right 22:57:22 it's basically adobe's amv2 engine given to the mozilla guys, for use with javascript. 22:57:43 adobe basically cajoling mozilla into optimizing the browser for flash :-D 22:57:55 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@192-1-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:58:10 <_3b> yeah 22:58:19 -!- gefla [n=gefla@77-57-175-238.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [] 22:58:47 OT: doesn't this look like Squeak? http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/470376 22:58:57 <_3b> http://ncannasse.fr/blog/adobe_alchemy has the opcodes in the comments 22:59:53 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:00:19 sweet lord! that's the most technical stuff on flash since that MAX presentation 23:01:51 clean nice format http://www.anotherbigidea.com/javaswf/avm2/AVM2Instructions.html 23:02:11 <_3b> yeah, think that is one of the places i was looking up opcodes 23:02:20 -!- phao [n=phao@20158152035.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:02:23 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 23:02:40 Tordek [n=tordek@host36.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:03:01 willb [n=wibenton@adsl-76-204-90-49.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:16 <_3b> ahaas: know any good way to get a list of classes available in the player? 23:03:18 SWC == Compressed SWF right? meaning everything after the signature is gzipped, IIRC 23:03:36 <_3b> fusss: something like that 23:03:53 _3b: What do you mean by available? 23:04:06 <_3b> fusss: one thing i read implied it was more for libs than apps, not sure if it has any other differences besides compression 23:04:20 <_3b> ahaas: available as in if i try to use it, the player won't complain :) 23:05:12 _3b: that's still vague :-P 23:05:14 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.181.237] has joined #lisp 23:05:21 <_3b> ahaas: or more specifically, i can use getDefinitionByName on it, then describeType on the result of that without an error 23:05:28 Are you talking about files with an swc extension or the tag in the swf format? 23:05:53 kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:06:01 _3b: I don't know off of the top of my head. 23:06:07 -!- davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:06:09 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:06:12 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 23:06:13 <_3b> ok, i'll just stick with building the list by hand then :( 23:06:51 *_3b* is trying to automate as much as possible the generation of fFI wrappers 23:07:33 -!- epoch [n=FAIL@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 23:07:44 -!- Tarlok [n=user@0-16-d4-5c-87-f3.sm.esol.dur.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:09:42 -!- esden [n=esden@club.muc.ccc.de] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 23:11:51 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:22 ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:48 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-105-4-193.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:13:49 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:14:25 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:17 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [No route to host] 23:16:00 -!- decaf [n=deadc0ff@c-f4e3e055.31-4-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:16:20 "soft typing", or the type inference i want is probably the most dull thing to implement. will have to go through all lisp functions, and write type signatures for them then wrap that up with a prolog like inference engine 23:16:27 lemoinem_ [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:17:11 pkhuong_ [n=pkhuong@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:17:12 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@115.147.99.198] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:18:28 <_3b> that reminds me, is there any information about how sbcl/cmucl does type inference stuff available? 23:18:43 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:19:59 <_3b> (or CL oriented info on type inference in general) 23:20:45 _3b: "The Python compiler for CMU Common Lisp" is a good start 23:22:54 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-178-21-159.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:23:48 phao [n=phao@20158152035.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:24:28 sgware [n=sgware@adsl-074-167-254-190.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:55 <_3b> cool, more stuff to read :) 23:25:36 -!- slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:26:17 -!- willb [n=wibenton@adsl-76-204-90-49.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:26:17 I am trying to run a lisp program called Sensory Graphplan (http://www.cs.washington.edu/ai/sgp.html). It works fine on my Windows box under CLISP, but it does not work on my Linux box under SBCL. The error I am getting in SBCL is 'SB-INT:SIMPLE-STREAM-ERROR', and I think it's caused by trying to read a directory as if it were a file. Can anyone provide some insight here? 23:27:12 _3b: i read about it recently, and it does type inference for "monomorphic" types 23:27:24 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-178-25-42.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:44 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:28:24 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:28:50 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:28:54 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:29:30 in our case, you want to look at research that went into typing smalltalk, stuff by Palsberg and Schwartzbach 23:29:55 -!- ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e2b88181048fc5d4] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 23:30:26 caveat, type inference research that comes out of Smalltalk and Self focuses mainly on inlining method calls 23:31:48 <_3b> well, that sort of thing might be useful here too 23:31:49 http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=506315.506316 is a good survey paper on the subject 23:32:08 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:32:14 zrak [n=bobo@77.28.5.173] has joined #lisp 23:32:16 sgware, not sure, but, do you have read permissions to the file? 23:32:23 -!- kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:32:25 ah, Chambers, there go the Self crew again 23:32:28 how to load files in clisp? 23:32:39 and FILE STREAMS, as far as I am concerned work just for non-directories 23:32:47 phao: yes 23:32:50 i got it 23:33:11 well, that paper doesn't really propose any new algorithms. it just explains the existing approaches in a consistent way, and benchmarks them on real world programs 23:33:30 The error is 'couldn't read from #: Is a directory' 23:33:46 Where ... is the location of the directory 23:33:46 which to be honest is a lot more useful than the 15 year stuff that was tested on a single 500 line program 23:33:46 i loaded a file in clisp, but now it says undefined function 23:33:51 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 23:34:28 nunb [n=user@94.160.5.209] has joined #lisp 23:35:18 hmm 23:35:31 _3b: the two main methods are type-inference with Hindley Milner, which works by solving some related system of equation, use in FPLs. And by Constraints, is the set-theoretic model that is used by dynamic languages. 23:35:41 I just can't figure out what I am getting this in SBCL and not in CLISP 23:35:45 why* 23:35:46 I'm checking here, you can (not in clisp, but in standard file streams) read directories 23:36:02 It works fine in CLISP 23:36:13 clisp is more gnu, it may use the (just as an example) FILE * (which can read dirs) 23:36:21 but it'll not be what you may expect 23:36:33 sbcl may have created some kind of bareer 23:36:56 because it doesn't make much sense (I think) reading a directory as a stream like you read files 23:36:59 text-files I mean 23:37:12 <_3b> fusss: yeah, think i did something vaguely H-M style for a previous project, so might start with that... don't think it is smart enough to really handle all of CL though 23:37:30 why this doesn't work 23:37:42 ( (null '()) nil) 23:37:44 but I'm not sure 23:37:49 you may want to look at sbcl's doc 23:38:10 _3b: yep, might need allot of type declarations to give it a sufficient starting point 23:38:21 sgware: that looks to me like a pathname problem: perhaps the file component got lost somehow on sbcl 23:38:48 File component? (Sorry, I am not very familiar with lisp) 23:39:12 relative to program size 23:39:24 :D 23:39:27 You mean SBCL's libraries for reading files? 23:39:36 <_3b> fusss: yeah, and the interactions with the flash class stuff could be messy :) 23:39:42 It's a fresh installation of SBCL... but this is a very old version of unix... so I suppose that could be the problem. 23:40:15 _3b: this should give you plenty of excuse to abuse coffee :-P (hey, i'm working on a hard problem) 23:40:42 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:41:01 <_3b> fusss: doesn't have to be complete to be useful though, since it can just fall back to * 23:41:13 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:16 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:00 well, yeah i guess 23:42:05 <_3b> fusss: as long as it gets simple cases like mostly math operators, or loop counters, it could probably make a noticeable difference 23:42:24 -!- phao [n=phao@20158152035.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:43:40 manic12_ [n=manic12@c-98-227-126-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:11 Oh, nevermind... I found the problem. There is a directory called 'domains' and a file called 'domains.lisp'. It was trying to load the directory rather than the file. I just added '.lsip' on to the end of all the things it is trying to load and it fixed the problem. 23:44:54 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-19-17.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:46:22 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-146-187.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 23:46:59 Also, I have a newbie question: Is there a command that will always exit, even if I am being promped for restarts? (quit) only works at the top level it seems, and exiting via ctrl+c is messy. 23:47:39 This is in SBCL. 23:47:58 when you're in the debugger you can exit by pressing 'q', or read the restarts and choose whichever says quit 23:48:11 when you're at the lisp repl you can evaluate (quit) 23:48:12 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.223.252] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:48:34 sgware: try (sb-ext:quit) 23:48:47 sgware: the last restart you are prompted for is usually quit.. 23:48:53 george [n=george@189.107.203.157] has joined #lisp 23:49:29 The reason I ask is that I would like to automate the running of a file. I have a lisp program that generates text output, and I want to run it from the shell script. So if there is an error and I get prompted for restarts, it will hang the shell script. Does that make sense? 23:49:34 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:35 never mind, the 'q' thing is for slime only 23:49:39 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:49:52 I'll try (sb-ext:quit) 23:50:02 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:50:13 That does it! 23:50:15 Thanks so much! 23:50:26 sgware: if you're running from a shell script you want --disable-debugger 23:50:44 What will happen if an error occurs? 23:51:03 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.10] has joined #lisp 23:51:26 it will be dumped along with a backtrace and sbcl will exit 23:51:29 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-128-24.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:36 Excelent, thanks! 23:51:48 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:51:51 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:17 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:31 -!- davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:57:01 zrak pasted "member" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71458 23:57:38 i can't figure it out what's wrong with my member function 23:57:57 <_3b> needs more parens? 23:59:07 you probably want the last clause to be (t (member ...)) 23:59:21 -!- bougyman [i=bougyman@bougyman.com] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:59:33 <_3b> ((member ...)) would work too i think 23:59:46 that's ((member ...) ...) 23:59:51 i see