00:00:17 -!- ``Erik___ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:00:49 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:44 kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has joined #lisp 00:10:38 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 00:11:35 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:12:35 willb1 [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:06 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:14:08 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:14:29 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 00:14:56 Modius [n=Modius@99.179.97.138] has joined #lisp 00:15:34 -!- Rugxulo [n=chatzill@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [No route to host] 00:16:14 2 questions. 1: is it portably legal to (macrolet ((function ....)) and 2: What's a good book/text to get these details? CLTL or something else? 00:18:20 Modius: 1. no. 2. The (hyper)spec? 00:18:30 On question (2) I mean something to skim for it, i.e. something linear 00:19:34 Under what topic would you envision this to be covered? 00:21:08 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:21:43 tcr: If you're asking me, I don't know, unless there's something hanging off of the macrolet page that I missed 00:22:30 I think PCL talks about how you can't redefine macros like DO 00:22:43 clhs 11.1.2.1.2 00:22:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm 00:23:51 Just look at the list of cleanup issues at the end of the spec for macrolet. The first entry is LISP-SYMBOL-REDEFINITION:MAR89-X3J13. 00:24:13 icylisper [n=icylispe@adsl-99-55-250-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:20 -!- icylisper [n=icylispe@adsl-99-55-250-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:25:28 -!- rama_su [n=blood@static-72-64-71-11.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:28:01 petere [n=peter@209-6-234-57.c3-0.sbo-ubr3.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:58 Modius: An annotable spec would be nice where even more cross-referencing could be introduced. 00:30:06 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:14 The answer is not linearization but more cross-referencing, I think. 00:31:47 -!- Rugxulo_ [n=chatzill@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:33:17 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-61-213.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:33:43 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:35:02 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:35:34 hefner [n=hefner@c-68-50-101-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:35 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:43:50 jao [n=user@47.Red-79-155-155.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:05 tcr: I'll probably try to skim cltl to pick up factoids that I don't know to search for in the first place. 00:49:17 rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:41 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.227.4] has quit [] 00:50:10 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 00:52:07 _ace4016_ [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:27 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:52:59 *sigh* there are way too many "lisp dialects" that didn't have to be lisp at all. some would make for excellent BASICs. 00:53:10 s/didn't/dont/ 00:53:31 -!- petere [n=peter@209-6-234-57.c3-0.sbo-ubr3.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 00:53:31 -!- sysfault [i=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [] 00:53:51 -!- _ace4016_ is now known as ace4016 00:54:14 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:57:25 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.85.95] has joined #lisp 00:58:06 -!- kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has quit ["scheduler switch.."] 01:05:19 -!- cky [n=cky@203-211-89-214.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [] 01:05:53 cky [n=cky@203-211-89-214.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:06:53 fusss: Too many languages that should just be experimental lisp libraries/dsls :P 01:07:43 too many "lisps" that have lambda and first-class closures, lack LET for some reason and use assignment exclusively 01:07:56 dear newLisp, lambda == let 01:10:08 kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has joined #lisp 01:11:36 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:11:48 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit [" "] 01:13:31 fusss: how do you mean use assignment? 01:13:38 ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.143.222] has joined #lisp 01:13:56 setq for everything 01:14:07 local bindings? 01:14:12 yeah 01:14:32 how do you define scope? use lambda? 01:14:38 and i was wrong about it having first-class closures. only fexprs for newlisp. 01:16:05 for binding? (let ((foo bar)) ) == (funcall (lambda (foo) ) ) 01:17:44 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:19:47 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-8a3bfe40747450ed] has joined #lisp 01:23:02 that i know, i meant in the "lisps" without let 01:23:29 -!- qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:24:18 well, first, you create an fxpr, then .. i forget why i'm even looking at this crap. i have FFIs to debug :-S 01:24:59 gio123 [n=gio123@91.151.140.4] has joined #lisp 01:31:17 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-713600bffc6fd766] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:32:35 -!- cky [n=cky@203-211-89-214.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:36:34 -!- elurin [n=user@88.224.44.54] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:36:51 :-) 01:37:43 fusss: by the way how do mean when you said before "that didn't have to be lisp at all"? 01:42:15 newlisp could lose the l-word and be perfect non-lisp language :-) 01:42:24 -!- dabd [n=dabd@85.139.104.31] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 01:42:39 -!- dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:14 most of the small "foo lisp" type language are just block-structured languages with s-exp syntax 01:45:47 ah, but what do you need to be a real lisp then? 01:46:05 how do u find maximal regular solution of XR subset of E. where R amd E are regular? 01:46:19 I like newlisp's memory management and gc though 01:46:42 henry baker did soemthing similar but called it linear lisp 01:48:25 rvirding: not having first class closures and lexical scoping is a good defenition for a non-new lisp 01:48:45 schme [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:49:18 ok, i'm safe then :-) I have done lfe, lisp flavoured erlang and it has closures and lexical scoping, macros too 01:49:28 rvirding: yes. But the copying was an exposition artefact. Any reasonable implementation would be based on some sort of reference counting, not deep copying everywhere. 01:50:03 the smart bit was the copying so you didn't need a ref count 01:50:53 c|mell [n=cmell@cad43e-087.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:51:15 but you did have to be a bit smart in the compiler 01:51:17 the smart bit was using (lossy, e.g. 1 bit & sticky) ref count to detect when you didn't need to copy. 01:52:30 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-18-235.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:53:28 all the smartness in avoiding ref count manipulations (temporary restraining order) did *not* copy either. Copying would have been even more expensive than twiddling a ref count. 01:58:12 iirc baker did copy, must check his paper again. but it is a cool algorithm 01:59:26 *rvirding* must sleep now 01:59:27 good night everyone 01:59:33 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 02:02:44 inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 02:06:35 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:06:47 lnostdal@blackbox:~$ sbcl --dynamic-space-size 512 --noinform --no-userinit --eval '(progn (sb-alien:define-alien-variable "dynamic_space_size" int) (princ dynamic-space-size) (terpri) (quit))' 02:06:47 536870912 02:07:01 *lnostdal* wonders if there is a "nicer" way to get hold of the dynamic space size 02:07:13 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:07:23 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-8a3bfe40747450ed] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:07:28 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:43 i see (- SB-VM:DYNAMIC-SPACE-END SB-VM:DYNAMIC-SPACE-START) mentioned some places when googling around, but it doesn't seem to return the correct value -- i think 02:08:41 lnostdal: it returns the static (max ?) values. 02:24:54 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-2-150-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:25:02 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-2-150-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:34 I fiddled with this and didn't think it returned the correct values, either 02:27:00 <_Jordan_> Anyone here program in CL on windows? 02:27:43 hefner: i don't see how it could, since sb-vm:dynamic-space-{end,start} are def!constant-ed during the build. 02:28:27 haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has joined #lisp 02:28:37 maybe I don't understand what they're supposed to mean. If start sbcl with --dynamic-space-size 1200, I expected that to be reflected somewhere. 02:29:15 the alien variable does seem to reflect what was supplied with --dynamic-space-size though, hefner 02:29:35 it's just a tad inconvenient to deal with .. maybe it should be exported by the sb-vm already? 02:29:42 sb-vm package* 02:29:45 *hefner* shrugs 02:30:28 the only reason I looked was to make sure my --dynamic-space-size argument option got passed along to sbcl and interpreted correctly, so it was a bit confusing 02:31:01 yes, same here .. i screw up things on the command line / .sh-script / whatever .. sometimes 02:31:03 :) 02:31:31 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-2-150-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:32:46 lnostdal: that's (or may be?) saved in the core, I believe. 02:34:41 hum .. 02:36:06 i don't think i understand .. i'm talking about the command line argument --dynamic-space-size 02:36:14 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Runtime-Options.html 02:36:35 lnostdal: sorry, I was thinking in the context of using cl-launch, which, iiuc, saves a core. 02:36:45 ok 02:37:27 aha, so you're saying SB-VM:DYNAMIC-SPACE-END and SB-VM:DYNAMIC-SPACE-START reflect the state at core-dump-time? 02:37:45 i guess that would explain it 02:38:06 could try .. 02:38:11 lnostdal: no, no. Just that you can set --dynamic-space-size before dumping a core and it'll have the same value by default when you'll restore it. 02:38:21 ok 02:38:33 dynamic-space-{end,start} are defined when SBCL is built. 02:38:39 i see 02:40:31 rama_su [n=blood@static-72-64-71-11.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:59 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 02:43:00 chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:20 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #lisp 02:43:35 trebor_h` [n=user@dslb-084-058-230-156.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:36 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@202.23.191.41] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:48:36 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 02:49:11 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cad43e-087.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:52:31 mornin' 02:55:38 schme: strange people and their refusal to stick to EST as the One True Timezone. 02:55:48 does somebody has a paper: J. Karhumaki, I. Petre, Two problems on commutation of languages 02:56:19 sykopomp: us west coasters are very laid back .. if we were not 3 hours behind we'd forever be late. 02:57:26 sykopomp: Which people are that? 02:57:44 people who seem to be under the impression that it might be morning or something. 02:57:46 strange... 02:57:52 sykopomp: oh wait I'm on CET and not EST. 02:58:08 Never heard of EST it seems. 02:58:10 :) 02:58:38 I am the NTP Keyserver of Zulu 02:58:41 c|mell [n=cmell@cad43e-087.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:58:58 What time is it in the EST? 02:59:06 about 10PM 02:59:29 schme: you should really go to sleep 02:59:35 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-2-150-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:42 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:00:30 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-207-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:00:54 lemonodor_ [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has joined #lisp 03:01:06 -!- lemonodor_ [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:05:52 Hahaha. 03:06:53 Adamant: If it was 10PM here too I would :) 03:07:16 I wuz kiddin'. I can read. 03:09:13 Cools. :) 03:15:48 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.143.222] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:16:11 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:23:52 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:25:04 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:27:45 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:28:16 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has left #lisp 03:29:37 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:51 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.225] has joined #lisp 03:35:56 Well maybe time to do some codery. 03:36:15 anlmal [n=chatzill@12-202-128-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:23 768/128 for $9.95 wow!? I have never heard of this price plan before but if this is a true i will give em a call! 03:36:25 to forum · permalink · 2008-11-02 17:43:08 · Reply to this 03:36:27 Anonymous 03:36:28 Premium 03:36:30 join:2004-06-01 03:36:32 IA 03:36:33 said by ch : 03:36:35 768/128 for $9.95 wow!? I have never heard of this price plan before but if this is a true i will give em a call! 03:36:36 Not sure about the upload but it's not less than that. 03:36:38 to forum · permalink · [Encourage,Ignore,Watch] · 2008-11-02 22:11:39 · Reply to this 03:36:39 ch 03:36:41 @aol.com Well it turns out that MediaCom is not offering this price plan anymore....The chipest price plan for the HSI is 29.95$ for 3 mbps +tax which means that i might endup paying 36$ or more per month? 03:36:42 to forum · permalink · 2008-11-08 02:38:14 · Reply to this 03:36:44 wth 03:36:46 Premium 03:36:47 join:2002-02-20 03:36:49 Iowa City, IA 03:36:51 ·Mediacom 03:36:53 edit: 03:36:55 November 8th, @08:35AM 03:36:57 03:36:59 said by ch : 03:37:01 Well it turns out that MediaCom is not offering this price plan anymore....The chipest price plan for the HSI is 29.95$ for 3 mbps +tax which means that i might endup paying 36$ or more per month? 03:37:04 You probably need to remind mediacom of their legal obligation to provide what they advertise here: »mediacomcc.com/internet_access.html 03:37:07 Your state attorney general can help. 03:37:09 to forum · permalink · [Encourage,Ignore,Watch] · 2008-11-08 08:32:34 · Reply to this 03:37:11 ClimberVP 03:37:13 @mchsi.com 03:37:15 Looks like the offer ch just laid out. $29.95 a month with cable or phone. Or $19.95 a month with a one year contract. The disclaimer also says that rates and services are subject to change. Not sure what he would call the attorney general about. 03:39:11 Nobody to boot the spammer? 03:40:24 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:48 Wow. 03:42:51 vorian [i=steve@freenode/staff/vorian] has joined #lisp 03:42:53 tiesje [n=user@202.51.72.181] has joined #lisp 03:44:04 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 03:46:58 -!- anlmal [n=chatzill@12-202-128-42.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:47:45 anlmal [n=chatzill@12-202-128-42.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:10 -!- anlmal [n=chatzill@12-202-128-42.client.mchsi.com] has quit [K-lined] 03:54:27 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:58:17 -!- shiki9_ [n=kenroy@209.59.101.106] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:58:40 shiki9_ [n=kenroy@76.76.162.57] has joined #lisp 04:04:38 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.225] has quit [] 04:07:58 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-a388e253.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:13:19 someone just did a bad paste 04:14:04 that wasn't even a good spam 04:16:00 -!- inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:18:20 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:19:57 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:21:43 holycow [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:26 sysfault [i=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 04:27:23 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@202.23.191.45] has joined #lisp 04:32:34 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:34:51 Good morning. 04:38:15 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:37 howdy beach 04:49:39 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:51:24 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-145-185.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:51:55 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:52:15 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:53:05 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 04:54:19 -!- replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:54:58 -!- Balooga [n=luke@65.111.175.229] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:55:53 Morning beach. 04:55:54 xb 04:56:09 er, that was meant for Emacs. 04:56:29 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:56:36 emacs is not your irc client? i see >_> 04:57:45 -!- rama_su [n=blood@static-72-64-71-11.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:58:07 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@202.23.191.45] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:59:29 -!- _Jordan_ [n=chatzill@69.169.139.178.provo.static.broadweave.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 05:01:53 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 05:05:38 wildly-inferior [n=wildly_i@c-68-32-177-182.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:52 dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:38 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:10:07 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 05:11:16 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:11:45 -!- topo [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has quit [Client Quit] 05:11:53 kg4qxk [n=bohanlon@pool-71-184-116-124.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:51 No it is--I meant To hit C-x b to switch buffers but missed the C- part. 05:14:45 yay. Dick Karp won a Kyoto prize! 05:16:52 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0DAA.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:18:14 Good for him. 05:18:26 Hmmm, I was just working on my Fran Allen transcript and she mentioned him in passing. 05:21:39 That's a big chunk of money too. 05:22:09 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D9E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:22:18 segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1DA09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:56 -!- dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:30:16 mikezor [n=mikael@c-a388e253.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:33:16 dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:10 beso [n=gio123@91.151.140.4] has joined #lisp 05:41:47 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:51 *fusss* googles "Dick "Karp" and "Kyoto prize" 05:42:55 -!- sysfault [i=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:44:41 fusss: you might try replacing dick with richard to reduce search engine noise 05:45:18 i usually need to do that to go around prudish firewall rules 05:45:32 dick -porn 05:45:52 berkeley fella right? 05:46:16 even "lisp" turned up something nasty earlier 05:46:17 go bears! 05:47:03 -!- dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:48:59 sysfault [i=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 05:49:41 *fusss* yahoo "defering" my mails :-/ 05:51:21 -!- gio123 [n=gio123@91.151.140.4] has quit [Success] 05:54:38 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:55:39 Gah! Too many projects! 05:56:05 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-248.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 05:56:59 what now beach? 05:57:26 slyrus_: Nothing particular. Just the usual dilemma. 05:57:51 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has quit [] 05:58:50 McCLIM framebuffer backend, SICL, LispOS, Gsharp, Climacs, CLIM-3, Metafont embedded language, Fonts, Stamp, etc, etc. 05:59:30 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:47 cky [n=cky@203-211-93-140.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:03:53 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:09:14 :-) 06:10:04 just finished configuring my girlfriend's mail server 06:10:19 that's not a good sign 06:13:19 ths [n=ths@59.99.16.137] has joined #lisp 06:13:29 her virtual host help staff didn't know what we meant by "relay host". so i cut through the chase and went smtp port-knocking their entire upper-level network 06:14:15 the node before last in a trace route.[0-255] :-P found it. 06:14:19 holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:46 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 06:15:02 -!- araujo 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-!- DrForr [n=drforr@eldwist.darkuncle.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:15:03 -!- merlincorey [n=merlin@ip65-46-14-94.z14-46-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:15:03 -!- luis [n=luis@r42.eu] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:15:34 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:53 DrForr [n=drforr@eldwist.darkuncle.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:56 luis [n=luis@r42.eu] has joined #lisp 06:16:02 technik [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:02 ``Erik [n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org] has joined #lisp 06:16:05 fihi09 [n=user@pool-96-224-164-180.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:12 jsimonss [n=jesse@urda-140.teknologforeningen.fi] has joined #lisp 06:16:25 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:16:32 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-180-44.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:16:37 beach: that's a serious list :) 06:16:42 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:16:43 guenther__ [n=guenther@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 06:16:52 merlincorey [n=merlin@ip65-46-14-94.z14-46-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:00 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:02 beach: I added a new project to my list the other day: http://git.cyrusharmon.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=epigraph.git 06:17:22 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:19:55 slyrus_: nice! 06:20:03 it's a start... 06:20:22 do you approve of the name? 06:20:46 Yes, very good. 06:20:49 timchen1` [n=vzloct_2@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 06:21:10 thanks 06:21:17 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 06:23:11 me-so-stupid [n=semka@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 06:24:34 dublpaws [n=none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:28 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has 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[n=user@adsl-99-2-150-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:41:20 <_deepfire> Hmm, Edi could have defined some conditions in CL-FAD, I think. 08:42:36 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 08:44:01 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 08:45:20 splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has joined #lisp 08:45:23 morning 08:46:21 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:51:24 manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 08:52:23 kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-59-156.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:52:39 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 08:53:31 boyscare1 [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:42 -!- boyscare1 [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:53:44 _deepfire: You could add them :-) 08:53:47 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:54:39 drwhen [n=drwho@209-112-181-104.static.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:04 morning 08:56:28 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:56:44 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [] 08:57:47 <_deepfire> tcr, I wish he did the research of existing CL exception hierarchy / design of the extension for me :-) 08:58:59 <_deepfire> my needs crop up as I go, which is a rather bad design methodology, I think. 08:59:16 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:59:54 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.128] has quit ["Somebody rebooted me"] 08:59:58 Well, if you can spend a day, or two on this, I'm sure you can come up with something that's reasonable and sound. 09:00:15 You could start by looking at what conditions the open source implementations provide 09:00:59 -!- me-so-stupid [n=semka@77.236.84.166] has left #lisp 09:01:38 But perhaps you should first ask Edit whether such an extensions has a chance to be incorporated 09:02:34 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:02:49 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has joined #lisp 09:05:20 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-83.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 09:05:51 lyte_ [n=lyte@220-244-221-67-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:07:49 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 09:10:24 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-18-235.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 09:11:22 <_deepfire> I'll have to do something to satisfy my own needs first. Then I'll try to generalise it, and then we'll see.. 09:12:18 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:12:31 -!- haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:12:47 haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has joined #lisp 09:12:54 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-59-156.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 09:12:54 *hefner* whacks cffi-net with a stick 09:17:45 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:18:09 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has joined #lisp 09:21:09 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:25:59 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:27:53 emarsden [n=user@mir31-3-82-234-52-44.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:51 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:30:51 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:31:48 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has left #lisp 09:33:02 -!- _ace4016_ [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:33:04 -!- rudi [n=rudi@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/rudi] has quit ["Client exciting"] 09:33:50 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:34:55 hefner: did it die? 09:35:23 well, it was already dead 09:36:11 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:37:51 eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:38:40 so why the enstickment? To evict it from an app? 09:39:19 I guess to express my disappointment that it surrender itself before the iolib juggernaut 09:40:47 a straightforward cffi wrapper around the socket functions seems perfectly logical to me 09:44:01 hefner: i think there's such a thin layer in iolib, or at least such a factoring is being worked on... fe[nl]ix can tell you more about it 09:44:19 I don't doubt it, but it ought to exist on its own 09:44:47 not hard to steal or replicate if I really needed it, fortunately 09:45:32 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:45:47 iolib has several .asd's, you can load some of them separately 09:45:56 H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 09:46:17 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has left #lisp 09:46:24 -!- crod [n=cmell@cad43e-087.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:32 kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-59-156.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:46:38 H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 09:47:27 -!- m4thrick_ [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:47:55 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:49:14 m4thrick_ [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:51:47 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has left #lisp 09:53:22 thanks, but no thanks :) 09:53:36 b4|hraban [n=b4@194.109.234.123] has joined #lisp 10:01:33 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 10:02:01 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:57 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:04:51 any cl-json stake holders here? 10:04:52 Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 10:09:11 -!- Soulman__ is now known as Soulman 10:11:46 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:13:50 or, asked the other way round, does anyone have a json decoder/encoder other than cl-json that they'd be willing to share? 10:14:21 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 10:16:36 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.85.95] has quit [] 10:22:49 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.128] has joined #lisp 10:33:45 -!- haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:42:19 -!- lyte_ [n=lyte@220-244-221-67-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:43:30 jao` [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:54 -!- jao` is now known as jao 10:50:05 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.51.72.181] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:50:52 -!- ``Erik___ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:52:54 See http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/fonts.png for my progress on Metafont-like fonts for McCLIM. 10:54:14 beach: cool 10:54:23 <_9david> will you be able to translate actual metafont code to your metafont-like programs? 10:59:35 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:59:52 _9david: That would take a significant amount of additional work on my embedded language. 11:03:00 All I have done is to implement Metafont-like syntax for paths. For all other things in Metafont I just use Common Lisp. 11:03:30 This means I don't have Metafont's ability to solve systems of linear equations, for instance. 11:04:12 (though I have a solver for such systems in there, because it is necessary in order to turn paths into segments of Bézier curves. 11:04:21 -!- beso [n=gio123@91.151.140.4] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:04:23 s/./)./ 11:09:14 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:10:47 me-so-stupid [n=semka@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 11:16:28 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 11:18:08 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:26 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:18:53 that might be the most readable small antialiased text I've seen that wasn't pixelled by hand in a bitmap editor 11:19:42 unless my expectations have been lowered by running mcclim-truetype for too long, that is 11:21:02 -!- segv__ is now known as segv 11:27:24 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:27:59 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 11:29:52 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:35:09 nostoi [n=nostoi@66.Red-81-39-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:28 mathrick [n=mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 11:35:45 it would be cute to have a version of typecase which used only type information known at compile time (lisps with no useful type inference would always run the otherwise clause) 11:35:47 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:37:48 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 11:42:38 hefner: Thanks! Yes, I am pretty happy with the result. 11:42:47 do compilers already optimize out a case where the decision can be determined at compile time? 11:43:02 locklace: typically, yes 11:43:14 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:44:05 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:45:48 I'd like to say that doesn't help for my envisioned use case, but I've already flushed the context 11:48:02 envi_office2 [i=envi@203.109.25.100] has joined #lisp 11:48:10 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 11:48:41 -!- envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.100] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:49:02 -!- _9david [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:49:08 _9david [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 11:49:21 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 11:49:49 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:50:52 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:51:24 elurin [n=user@88.224.44.54] has joined #lisp 11:51:29 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:58 -!- shiki9_ [n=kenroy@76.76.162.57] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:56:25 athos [n=philipp@p54B872B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:23 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:00:44 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:02:43 shiki9_ [n=kenroy@76.76.162.207] has joined #lisp 12:04:33 user___ [n=user@p54923B28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:49 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:05:16 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:05:24 c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a16-151.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:12:23 -!- V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-febddf00-91.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:16:25 AshyIsMe [n=User@118.107.36.126] has joined #lisp 12:21:44 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has left #lisp 12:22:19 how can you make mutts "choose file from list" dialog (f.e. adding attachment and then hit "?") display also hidden files (f.e. .emacs)? 12:22:30 sorry 12:27:19 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:28:47 antgreen [n=green@CPE0013f7bcd3c0-CM0013f7bcd3bc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:27 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has joined #lisp 12:29:53 -!- elurin [n=user@88.224.44.54] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:30:35 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:33:33 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0013f7bcd3c0-CM0013f7bcd3bc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:38:31 minion: chant to specbot 12:38:32 specbot: MORE LIKE BASH 12:39:32 antgreen [n=green@CPE0013f7bcd3c0-CM0013f7bcd3bc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:08 nurv101 [n=askmefor@cidhcp124.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 12:42:37 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:42:59 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has joined #lisp 12:46:30 -!- shiki9_ [n=kenroy@76.76.162.207] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:47:24 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.219.249] has joined #lisp 12:50:50 inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 12:56:40 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:57:03 -!- vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes 12:58:22 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 12:58:33 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.143.222] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:00:30 ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.143.222] has joined #lisp 13:01:46 jewel [n=jewel@41.242.177.125] has joined #lisp 13:03:23 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 13:05:10 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:05:26 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@118.107.36.126] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:07:14 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:10:30 -!- bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:12:06 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 13:14:06 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 13:14:19 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 13:15:00 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:15:42 lacedaemon [n=algidus@88-149-210-5.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 13:16:04 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-83.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:16:08 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 13:18:51 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:19:57 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:21:35 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:23:01 -!- me-so-stupid [n=semka@77.236.84.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:24:15 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:24:23 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a16-151.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:25:07 c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a69-043.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:29:35 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:30:59 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:31:05 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@66.Red-81-39-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 13:37:07 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:37:28 TauPan [n=taupan@dudelab.org] has joined #lisp 13:38:12 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:38:37 hiho... yesterday someone apparently asked here about compiling sbcl with clisp (see http://paste.lisp.org/display/70043 ) but I can't get the context from the irclogs (can't connect to ircbrowse). Does anyone know off the top of his/her head what the problem/solution was? 13:38:51 (I seem to have the same problem) 13:39:02 problem "compiling with clisp" 13:39:06 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:06 solution "don't do that" 13:39:40 jsnell: why? 13:39:46 because it won't work 13:39:53 why not? 13:40:14 because sbcl expects a consistently non-broken lisp, and clisp doesn't like to be that 13:40:25 if I somebody knew why, it would be fixed 13:40:49 as it is, some versions of clisp will be able to compile sbcl at high tide on thursdays 13:41:00 *lol* 13:41:10 and will fail at other times, in ways that are basically impossible to debug 13:41:10 ISTR it worked once for me on linux/x86-64 13:42:18 right. but it working in rare cases still essentially means that it doesn't work 13:42:44 and it'd better to just be up front about it not working, than have people waste time trying to use clisp as the host 13:43:02 (is there still documentation around claiming that it works?) 13:43:05 yes, agreed. Should have stressed that it worked *once*. 13:43:19 ah, found the log file 13:43:38 H4ns [n=hans@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:51 well, the sbcl README/INSTALL don't really specify that it does/does not work. 13:44:21 I distinctly remember removing it from the list of supported build hosts in that file 13:44:53 but you're right, it doesn't list all the non-supported host lisps as non-supported :-) 13:44:53 yes, it's not in the list of supported platforms 13:45:03 but I didn't read all the way down *blush* 13:45:45 unfortunately clisp is the only lisp available as rpm for openSUSE 10.3... I could install a binary sbcl and build from that, I suppose. 13:49:27 hm, or I could apply the workaround from yesterdays log 13:49:52 TauPan: In fact, you could build from an sbcl binary distribution without installing it, just running it from where you unpacked the tarball. 13:50:47 sh make.sh 'sh /somewhere/else/run-sbcl.sh' 13:50:47 ? 13:51:47 athos_ [n=philipp@p54B87199.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:29 Yeah, basically. If run-sbcl.sh does the trick. 13:53:54 I think that's new since last I paid attention. 13:56:09 hmm, no 13:56:32 'run-sbcl.sh needs to be run from the top of the SBCL source tree...' 13:57:25 So use /path/to/src/runtime/sbcl --core /path/to/output/sbcl.core instead. 13:57:54 You may need quotes on that, though. 13:59:30 that seems to work 14:04:41 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B872B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:05:47 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:48 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:05:51 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:06:01 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:03 TauPan annotated #70043 with "better workaround" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70043#3 14:06:13 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has joined #lisp 14:06:36 22 multiplication instructions. And it would have been 31 if I were targetting ARMv6 instead of ARMv5TE. 14:07:42 so is ircbrowse.org down or is it just connection problems from my site? 14:07:55 .com even 14:09:21 TauPan: does not work for me either 14:09:34 Doesn't minion have a different site in its SD for logs now? 14:09:37 minion: logs? 14:09:37 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ ; older logs may be available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (down as of 2008/09/24) 14:10:06 cmeme isn't even here, so I'd say ircbrowse is very likely down. 14:10:53 elurin [n=user@88.224.44.54] has joined #lisp 14:12:15 tcr [n=tcr@a022.reverse.yawsp.de] has joined #lisp 14:12:23 I managed to find the log on tunes.org, so it doesn't seem to be down any more. 14:12:42 H4ns: what doesn't work? compiling with clisp or with binary sbcl? 14:13:06 TauPan: ircbrowse 14:16:31 ah 14:17:17 minion: compile? 14:17:18 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``compile''. 14:17:21 :< 14:18:02 cltl2 compile 14:18:03 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node224.html 14:19:22 :) 14:19:27 nickga [n=nickg@pc022.cs.york.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:20:03 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.242.177.125] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:21:57 gio123 [n=gio123@91.151.140.4] has joined #lisp 14:23:36 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:26:38 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:28:29 I'm starting to like lisp. :( 14:30:17 -!- brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:34:05 willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:34:08 Quadrescence: Poor thing. 14:34:10 -!- tcr [n=tcr@a022.reverse.yawsp.de] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:35:11 schme: My mind is in "holy shit wtf, repeat"-mode right now. 14:35:22 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a69-043.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:35:31 cbrannon [n=user@ip68-12-115-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:18 user__ [n=user@p54924A30.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:48 Quadrescence: Welcome to the dark side :) 14:37:11 Quadrescence: The only bad thing about lisp is that one starts being disgusted by everything else ;) 14:37:47 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbbeb7.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 14:37:55 schme: That will be bad, since lisp was/is my "last resort", which means I just whored myself to a lot of other langs. 14:38:51 brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has joined #lisp 14:39:52 :( 14:40:01 Why the whoring? 14:40:50 mrdodge [n=david@cm89.kappa96.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:41:01 Trying to find something I like/suitable for the tasks I (typically?) do. 14:42:19 hm, has someone came up with a good way to build rpms out of asdf-installable packages? 14:42:23 Sounds sensible :) 14:45:14 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-2-150-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:06 c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a18-193.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:48:06 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:49:09 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 14:49:28 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279776357.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 14:51:03 -!- user___ [n=user@p54923B28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:52:43 mjmcevoy [n=chewy@pool-71-115-116-167.sangtx.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:46 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0013f7bcd3c0-CM0013f7bcd3bc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 14:53:34 -!- mrdodge [n=david@cm89.kappa96.maxonline.com.sg] has left #lisp 14:53:35 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:53:47 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 14:54:05 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:54:56 Morning folks. 14:55:09 -!- user__ [n=user@p54924A30.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:55:11 hi gigamonkey 14:55:36 good morning all 14:56:52 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:660:3003:8:0:0:4:68] has quit ["leaving"] 14:57:18 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:57:44 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 14:58:41 Has anyone here worked on a software project that was actually run according to a waterfall model? 14:58:48 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:00:36 gigamonkey: That's kind of how I do things intuitively. 15:00:57 Quadrescence: working on a team or by yourself? 15:01:02 Quadrescence: really? 15:01:07 Myself. :o 15:01:17 I'm thinking of the 'waterfall' as meaning analysis leads to design leads to code leads to testing with no backwards communication. 15:01:28 If you're doing it by yourself, it's hard to avoid the backwards communication. 15:01:48 *splittist* notes that the first hit for "coders at work" on the Apress site is 'Learn VB .NET Through Game Programming' 15:01:50 gigamonkey: I did that for a university project 15:01:57 I've been on teams that have tried it, but management seems to get inthe way 15:02:10 splittist: I'm working on it! 15:02:27 gigamonkey: I'm relying on you! (: 15:02:53 I'm curious because basically no one I've talked to for C@W has ever experienced it until I talked to Fran Allen who described what sounded like the birth of it at IBM. 15:04:10 I was beginning to think waterfall was just a strawman that had never actually been used as described. But it sounds like at IBM in the wake of the System 360 disaster, it was put in place for a while. 15:04:13 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:04:21 ejs_ [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:52 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:04:53 gigamonkey: Maybe I don't do it in the strictest sense. Maybe it's more like "define what you want" -> "pseudocode-ify it" -> "write a component/function from the pseudocode" -> "test component" -> "repeat, choosing the next component to write based on what dependencies it has" 15:04:59 gigamonkey: i don't think it's very well defined 15:05:29 I thought the story behind waterfall was that it was described as a bad idea in some paper, but some people took it the wrong way and thought it was being advocated. I don't recall where I read that, though. 15:05:53 -!- eaumontab is now known as abeaumont 15:05:55 gigamonkey, i've been in a couple of projects for NASA/ESA where the life-cycle was defined as waterfall 15:07:25 Heh, from Wikipedian waterfall, s.v. "The first formal description of the waterfall model is often cited to be an article published in 1970 by Winston W. Royce ... Ironically, Royce was presenting this model as an example of a flawed, non-working model." 15:08:03 I guess what Fran Allen was describing was the "Cleanroom" process, which sounds like it might qualify as a sort of waterfall model. 15:08:19 http://www.idinews.com/waterfall.htm is interesting (linked from Wikipedia, I see)l 15:08:29 gigamonkey, with all phases defined with associated milestones were documentation was supposed to be thoroughly reviewed. in practice, it never worked as advertised: we had to backtrack often and modify requirements and design, with huge costs and delays 15:08:32 s/htm/html/ 15:08:55 s/milestones were/milestones where/ 15:09:40 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.143.222] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:10:02 jao: Sounds like what I heard the US space shuttle development was like. 15:11:10 I think I worked on a waterfall project once, but all I really remember was playing frisbee with mousepads in our giant office. 15:11:24 nyef, probably. it's very annoying: paperwork driven development is very inefficient, specially when people don't really pay attention to the meat of the documentation and spend time in cosmetic issues 15:11:52 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:12:30 jao: I hear that. "Wait, I don't remember the documentation saying that!" 15:13:00 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.128] has quit ["Somebody rebooted me"] 15:13:05 :) 15:13:08 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-99.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:33 gigamonkey: have you looked at the process used by the shuttle avionics group? 15:14:51 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a18-193.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:15:20 c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a18-193.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:16:11 sometimes you have a very good idea where you're going, and scheduled milestones + reviews make sense. 15:16:20 Fade: I have rread about it some. Extremely expensive but results in extremely reliable code, as I understand it. 15:16:49 I just sent an email to Peter Norvig (who used to be at NASA though in a different part of it) asking if he might be able to put me in touch with someone who worked on the Shuttle code. 15:16:51 judging by bugcount, it's the most successful software development team, ever. 15:17:04 ciaohttp://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/nexgen/Guide_Avionics/avgide1.htm 15:17:16 Yeah, that was my impression. But the software costs like $500 or $1500 per line, right. 15:17:32 yeah, it's expensive. 15:18:11 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-5.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:18:16 Imagine if they'd written a program to write bug-free programs instead... 15:18:18 If being able to pay for reliable roads and healthcare is part of what makes a country developed instead of developing... (: 15:18:21 when they were looking at upgrading the avionics package in the orbiter the avionics team said "Fine, as long as we don't have to change any code." so they built the new hardware around the avionics software. 15:18:24 bertskert [n=mor_och_@c83-252-190-193.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:18:30 splittist: they'd have HQ9+. 15:18:43 Is that team the one depicted here? http://www.fastcompany.com/node/28121/print 15:18:45 do I end a function using "return"? 15:18:52 bertskert: no. 15:19:09 what do I use to stop a function and return to the caller? 15:19:10 The result of the last expression evaluated will be returned automatically. 15:19:29 You can use (return-from function-name) to break out early. 15:19:40 bertskert: usually, you try and think in terms of expressions, not sequentially executed statements. 15:20:00 so I should use cond to break early? 15:20:41 instead of one if-statement before the rest of the code. 15:20:42 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:46 Fade: on the other hand Norvig had some things to say about that inability to change--this may be separate from the avionics but he described how the astronauts are trained to understand the reams of garbage that scroll by their screen in the case of certain sensor failures because the don't want to change the software in any way. 15:21:13 *Fade* nods 15:21:57 inside that group, they really feel that change breeds death. 15:22:24 it's sort of the emperor of life critical systems. 15:22:27 He suggested that perhaps they could be less paranoid and have an overall better result--maybe the software would have a few more glitches in it but that may pose less risk to a mission than the possibility that the astronauts will fail to execute their part of the algorithm. 15:23:52 well, the therac-25 story is a good example of the belief that not changing is safe but which actually results in death. 15:24:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 15:24:35 And Arianne-6 arguably was the same problem. 15:24:46 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 15:24:49 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.74.197] has joined #lisp 15:24:49 *nod* 15:24:51 And the Mars Orbiter, in part. 15:25:12 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 15:25:23 wasn't the mars orbiter lost due to incompatibility between metric engineers and imperial engineers? 15:26:01 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 15:26:42 Out of curiosity, is it possible to implement macros like 'and' and 'or' without &rest functionality? Does &rest predate the use of those kinds of macros in lisp's historical development? 15:26:45 Yeah, but part of the problem was they reused some code that had flown on a previous mission in a purely information producing capacity. 15:27:00 ah 15:28:07 (defmacro myand (f . rest) `(and ,f ,@rest)) 15:28:19 jewel: don't know if that counts as "without &rest" 15:29:02 gigamonkey: do you read comp.risks? 15:29:31 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:29:53 gigamonkey pasted "Norvig on Orbiter" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70142 15:30:10 ah, nice. thanks. 15:30:11 Fade: not recently. I have in the past. 15:30:49 -!- TauPan [n=taupan@dudelab.org] has left #lisp 15:31:31 it gave me the absolute certainty that I never want to work in life critical systems. :) 15:31:45 milanj [n=milan@79.101.181.117] has joined #lisp 15:33:04 gigamonkey, no I count that as &rest, I can see that if are passing arguments as lists, then it's very easy to implement (f . rest) or &rest, did early implementations do this? 15:33:46 Actually I think in some early macro systems you just got the whole form (i.e. what you'd get with &whole today). It was up to you to then take it apart. 15:34:32 jewel: I'm not sure what you mean by "passing arguments", except to the macro-function, which obviously has to receive the arguments as a list 15:34:46 And I may be making this up but then the sequence was people invented destructuring specifically for doing that taking apart. And then later realized the destructuring mechanism is useful in its own right. 15:35:00 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:08 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 15:35:19 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:04 What would be more coherent with CL when representing a 3d position #(x y z) or #(z y x) ? 15:36:16 [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.18] has joined #lisp 15:36:46 masm [n=user@213.22.190.91] has joined #lisp 15:36:47 auclairb: what makes you consider the second? 15:37:42 (just curious, because it wouldn't have occurred to me) 15:39:19 sellout: aref, i believe the third variable changes the fastest and thus i would tend to do (aref a z y x) in order to have elements, lines, planes 15:39:52 EvilTofu [n=jeromech@cm65.delta63.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:40:12 from things like 3d arrays in pointer based arrays (c++ a[][][] stuff ) 15:41:53 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:42:27 ``Erik___ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 dcrawford: Please tell me (c++ a[][][]...) isn't something remotely possible in lithp 15:43:02 Sigh. 15:43:22 nothing is true, everything is permitted. 15:43:48 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:52 haha 15:44:24 And I would appreciate it if you guys would pardon me for how I was yesterday. >24 hours no sleep. 15:45:06 Some more progress here http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/fonts.png (I clearly need kerning information, and the `j' needs to be redone). 15:45:12 Quadrescence, that was parens as in parenthetical comment about the language c++, not an sexp 15:45:15 What would be a good text to learn lisp from? 15:45:21 Quadrescence: Only if you don't expect me to pardon you for thinking that "lithp" is funny today. 15:45:24 dcrawford: Oh, hahah. 15:45:26 minion: please tell EvilTofu about pcl-book 15:45:26 EvilTofu: please look at pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 15:45:27 minion: tell EvilTofu about PCL 15:45:27 minion: tell EvilTofu about that-dead-sexy-book 15:45:28 EvilTofu: direct your attention towards PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 15:45:28 EvilTofu: have a look at that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 15:45:33 haha. 15:45:42 auclairb: Ah ... well if x changes fastest, "z y x" might get you locality, but a 3-dimensional array is not the same as [][][] in C. 15:45:45 *gigamonkey* smiles 15:46:01 chandler: That wasn't necessarily supposed to be funny. It's more of a habit, because I once said it to be funny. 15:46:11 Quadrescence: Well, please break yourself of it. 15:46:26 lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp435.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 15:46:37 beach: Is this the TrueType renderer that's in McCLIM, or something new? 15:46:38 and which "flavour" of lisp for running on an old osx ppc system? 15:46:46 auclairb: I mean, don't think you can use (aref a z) to get a plane. 15:46:58 EvilTofu: Either SBCL or Clozure Common Lisp would work fine. How old is "old"? 15:47:04 chandler: it is my Metafont-like embedded langauge that I used for Gsharp, now with CL-Vectors backend. 15:47:10 chandler: :/ 15:47:18 ibook g4 running 10.4 15:47:19 chandler: and a font that I am now making. 15:47:22 sellout: I see, I'll go with the more natural #(x y z) 15:47:30 sellout: thanks 15:47:44 EvilTofu: Unfortunately the binary that's on the SBCL web site only seems to work on 10.5 systems. 15:48:38 chandler: since it has the power of Metafont, I can place the control points where I want, and the result is much better than that of TrueType (at least potentially). 15:48:52 EvilTofu: but you can probably grab an older binary and build the latest from source. I run SBCL on my G4 PB. 15:49:01 And used to run it on a G3 ibook. 15:49:17 you'll need to patch the source if your system is running xcode 3.1 15:49:23 otherwise it won't link. 15:49:34 i don't have the dev kit for 10.4 15:49:52 Fade: Really? 15:49:55 is there a way to get a c compiler? 15:49:57 I built with XCode 3.1 15:49:57 yeah 15:50:03 EvilTofu: You can download it from Apple. 15:50:15 I thought I heard someone was remaking a osx binary for 10.4 15:50:18 unless they've included the change in the latest sbcl tree. 15:50:30 beach: Does it render Computer Modern too? 15:50:45 Fade: "They" would be me, so please tell me what you're talking about. 15:50:53 chandler: I don't parse MF files actually. But perhaps I could one day. 15:51:04 beach: Oh. 15:51:17 hold on. i'll fire up my mac and paste the change I had to make to my tree. 15:51:31 chandler: I just implemented the MF path logic (and syntax) as an embedded language. 15:52:15 rama_su [n=blood@static-72-64-71-11.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:58 -!- gio123 [n=gio123@91.151.140.4] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:53:37 chandler: and I suspect Computer Modern fonts won't be so nice on the screen. They were made for relatively-high-resolution devices. 15:53:46 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 15:53:51 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 15:54:05 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 15:54:08 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:54:08 -!- [1]edon is now known as edon 15:54:46 beach: True. 15:56:55 gigamonkey, thanks for your comments, it didn't occur to me that the macro function originally received the whole form without destructuring 15:57:10 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has quit [] 15:57:14 topo_ [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has joined #lisp 15:57:18 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a18-193.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:57:30 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:57:50 hrmn. 15:58:12 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:58:16 bot didn't pick it up: http://paste.lisp.org/display/70145 (Chandler) 15:58:16 jewel: you might look up Kent Pitman's paper or the history of macro systems. 15:58:37 Fade: Oh. That is the patch I included pre-1.0.22 15:58:55 V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-febddf00-91.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:58:56 -!- uchitoru [n=user@85.139.117.150] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:58:57 -!- mjmcevoy [n=chewy@pool-71-115-116-167.sangtx.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:59:47 Fade: er, that seems to be a reversed version of it 15:59:53 Why did you need to do that? 16:00:00 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:00:20 Whoops, sorry. I'm reading my own patch wrong. 16:00:25 because I couldn't get sbcl to link, either from the source tarball, the ports version, or the clbuild tree after an update of xcode. 16:00:41 That is what went into 1.0.22 16:00:53 So, you should be good to go now. 16:00:58